They are...the God's chosen

[serpentoffire]

They withdraw unilaterally
They ceasefire unilaterally
They invade unilaterally
They win unilaterally
They destroy unilaterally
They massacre unilaterally
They bathe in blood unilaterally
They spread white phosphorus unilaterally
They kill women and children unilaterally
They drop bombs unilaterally
They live on stolen land unilaterally
They support their homicidal leaders unilaterally
They love their 'Jewish Only State’ unilaterally
Their democracy is unilateral
They love themselves unilaterally
They are the unilateral people.
Living behind walls of concrete, hatred and arrogance
They are still united and lateral failing to love their neighbours

http://palestinethinktank.com/

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/phos_dees2.jpg

[sophia_h]

`

serpentoffire


Excellent !

~

[timezone]

http://incogman.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/bloody-boy.jpg?w=500&h=387

This ”brave ally” of ours, Israel, blockaded and starved the Palestinians of the Gaza because they elected someone they didn’t like. Then, while America was busy during the elections of November 4th, the Israelis killed 6 Palestinians out of the blue and broke a ceasefire that Hamas carefully followed for 4 months. When they retaliated with puny, ineffectual rockets, the Zionists committed serious war crimes and killed another 1300, maybe 1500; at least a third to half were women and children. Jews really don’t care!

http://incogman.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/rahmemanuel.jpg?w=497&h=351

Look at the Zionist Rahm Emmanuel as he clowns around during the “Inauguration” of their Zionist puppet, Obama. Perhaps Mr. Emmanuel is directing his “respect” towards a fooled White America who have gone along with this lying travesty for far to long now.

[adbasque]

With all due respect, The quote that you have there from Winston Churchil.
he was probably one of the first founders of most problems in the world today, he was also one of the biggest puppets.

They all talk but they are all part of the big game

[timezone]

With all due respect, The quote that you have there from Winston Churchil.
he was probably one of the first founders of most problems in the world today, he was also one of the biggest puppets.

They all talk but they are all part of the big game

:D Ha first you say he was one of the founders of most of the problems in the world today, then you say he was one of the biggest puppets, Make your mind up. Winston Churchill was a puppet mouthpiece nothing more.

I happen to like the quote not the man himself period.

Now let’s try to stay on topic.

[armoured_amazon]

My guitarists are Israeli. They don't do any of those things, ergo, your post is incorrect. I can't abide by sweeping generalisations.

[octopusrex]

Just because you are born Jew or Arab don't mean you are automatically a monster eh, amazon?

[armoured_amazon]

Just because you are born Jew or Arab don't mean you are automatically a monster eh, amazon?

Exactement.

[zarah]

Just because you are born Jew or Arab don't mean you are automatically a monster eh, amazon?

Isn't it less about the Israeli people as individuals and more about the government of the state of Israel?

[shazzar]

yeah and the funny thing , you say something against israel/zionists you are considered anti-semite/racist in mass public of course.
especially here in US.

Antisemitism should never be a blinder to palestinian suffering.

[armoured_amazon]

yeah and the funny thing , you say something against israel/zionists you are considered anti-semite/racist in mass public of course.
especially here in US.

Antisemitism should never be a blinder to palestinian suffering.

Israel and Zionists are not automatically one and the same. Israelis are people living, having families and going about their daily routines just like Palestinians, you and me.

[sophia_h]

`

yeah and the funny thing , you say something
against israel/zionists you are considered anti-semite/racist
in mass public of course.
especially here in US.

Antisemitism should never be a blinder to palestinian suffering.


point made shazzar

Antisemitism should never be a blinder to palestinian suffering

especially here in US.


anti-semitism and racism have become without meaning

as all overused epithets do become
add nazi and fascist to the group
they are merely scare tactics to shut up people
with different views.


There is today, thankfully, a global press and many
who are filming and photographing the daily horrors
in Palestine and giving to that press where a collection
of irrefutable evidence is mounting


This is the internet rev ol ushun, the disemination of
the actual footage and real blood and death.

millions with TV and/or puters who SEE the carnage
and are theselves terrorized


this is what it takes for enough people to wake up
to the dastardly conduct of the govt of Israel




every one of the Palestinians , even those who are not
yet dead, are martyrs to the cause of uprooting
and dissolving the TYRANT that runs our world.



ALL will be mourned when this final fiery act of
a millinea old epoch is played out and SANITY returns
to Earth.


:(


.

[shazzar]

`




point made shazzar






anti-semitism and racism have become without meaning

as all overused epithets do become
add nazi and fascist to the group
they are merely scare tactics to shut up people
with different views.


There is today, thankfully, a global press and many
who are filming and photographing the daily horrors
in Palestine and giving to that press where a collection
of irrefutable evidence is mounting


This is the internet rev ol ushun, the disemination of
the actual footage and real blood and death.

millions with TV and/or puters who SEE the carnage
and are theselves terrorized


this is what it takes for enough people to wake up
to the dastardly conduct of the govt of Israel




every one of the Palestinians , even those who are not
yet dead, are martyrs to the cause of uprooting
and dissolving the TYRANT that runs our world.



ALL will be mourned when this final fiery act of
a millinea old epoch is played out and SANITY returns
to Earth.


:(


.


+1

[marpat]

yeah and the funny thing , you say something against israel/zionists you are considered anti-semite/racist in mass public of course.
especially here in US.

Antisemitism should never be a blinder to palestinian suffering.


And in here if you point out that fact that Palestinians have killed many UNARMED Israelis you are branded a zionist. Damn those facts!!

[shazzar]

if you mean 10 dead israeli civilians vs 1500 dead palestinians.
I think facts on my side.

[armoured_amazon]

No one should kill anyone. What makes you think a thousand deaths worse than one death? Killing is wrong, period.

[phildee3]

I can't abide by sweeping generalisations.



You mean like this one:



I thought Hindus were peaceful people?

[onourwayto2012]

:D Ha first you say he was one of the founders of most of the problems in the world today, then you say he was one of the biggest puppets, Make your mind up. Winston Churchill was a puppet mouthpiece nothing more.

I happen to like the quote not the man himself period.

Now let’s try to stay on topic.
Well all these guys had great quotes..... you just have to apply the "doublespeak" to them to understand the true meaning

[armoured_amazon]

You mean like this one:

:rolleyes:

Perhaps I should have clarified that I can't abide negative stereotypes. THERE. CLARIFIED.

[phildee3]

:rolleyes:

Perhaps I should have clarified that I can't abide negative stereotypes. THERE. CLARIFIED.



It was clear,

like: "Hindus aren't peaceful."

[zarah]

No one should kill anyone. What makes you think a thousand deaths worse than one death? Killing is wrong, period.

Because 999 other people died as well :confused:

[zarah]

And in here if you point out that fact that Palestinians have killed many UNARMED Israelis you are branded a zionist. Damn those facts!!

I don't believe that's actually true.

Would you claim to be a Zionist?

[armoured_amazon]

Because 999 other people died as well :confused:

Ah, so killing is okay when both sides kill the same amount of people? Mmkay. One death is wrong but judging by your avatar you're not open to that.

[eternal_spirit]

I don't believe that's actually true.

Would you claim to be a Zionist?
A crypto Jew and Christian hater. I could think of other labels.

Waits for Marpat to call me a Nazi, as usual.

[sophia_h]

A crypto Jew and Christian hater. I could think of other labels.

Waits for Marpat to call me a Nazi, as usual.


LOL !


see MY point on how the deluded believers in the Great Lie
and supporters of the hoax use NAZI as an epithet?

it is sooooo vilified if I just arrived here from another planet
I would investigate to find the root of this groups
HARD TABOO on that word !

what REACTIONS to your sanity


there must be a very deep program running to make these
exhibit such FEAR and HATE !


I dont think it bothers you to be called NAZI ES

if it does I will take YOU to the woodshed ! lol.:D



`

[eternal_spirit]

I dont think it bothers you to be called NAZI ES

if it does I will take YOU to the woodshed ! lol.

Nah I got used to it.

:eek::D

The top Rabbi at the Sanhedrin was known as the Nasi, Nasi means head. Coincidence or not but spoken the word sounds the same. The Talmud and other religious texts are noted for slightly different spellings of the same words.

[sophia_h]

Ah, so killing is okay when both sides kill the same amount of people?
Mmkay. One death is wrong but
judging by your avatar you're not open to that.



I must have missed something...



whats the PROBLEM with Zarah's avatar?

nice colors

represents a people with a long and illustrious history.


It is soon to be the global badge of shame for NOT
stopping the open constant torture and murdering of babies,
children, the elderly, women, unarmed men and even pets.


I wonder what is meant by


One death is wrong but judging by your avatar you're not open to that

:confused:


.

[comawhite015]

Waits for Marpat to call me a Nazi, as usual.


see MY point on how the deluded believers in the Great Lie
and supporters of the hoax use NAZI as an epithet?

I dont think it bothers you to be called NAZI ES


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/exitjmouse/GodwinsLaw_CatPoster.jpg


http://catb.org/jargon/html/G/Godwins-Law.html

[sophia_h]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/exitjmouse/GodwinsLaw_CatPoster.jpg


http://catb.org/jargon/html/G/Godwins-Law.html



ROTFLOL !

Thanks comawhite015

beautiful pic

will send to a couple of dozen NS friends
we all have a great sense of humor

I have an Iron Cross like that but mine has a
Swastika in the center and is on a silver chain.

One of my cherished posessions.

:D:

of course NAZIS show up
we are EVERYWHERE

you just cant see us, YET.


we dont wear uniforms
no longer necessary...


`

[comawhite015]

^^ My god, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[sophia_h]

And in here if you point out that fact that Palestinians have killed many UNARMED Israelis you are branded a zionist. Damn those facts!!





uh, how many is many

Palestinians have killed many UNARMED Israelis


again I must have missed something
I dont see any news sources saying

MANY UNARMED Israelis have been killed


I guess its just like the great hoax

if the Israelis say its so we all must believe its so !

or be accused of hurting their feeeelings

so we dont HAVE to see

MANY UNARMED Israelis have been killed

just accept it unproven.


no, not gonna happen.


May the Palestinian People live forever in
our hearts and to all of our shame.




`

[zarah]

Ah, so killing is okay when both sides kill the same amount of people? Mmkay. One death is wrong but judging by your avatar you're not open to that.

Quite.

You're attempting to give equality to the killing of one Israeli with one thousand Palestinians. It certainly isn't the same and one is quite obviously worse than the other.

[zarah]

I must have missed something...



whats the PROBLEM with Zarah's avatar?



I would imagine the problem is that she's less pro-Palestinian than I am. My avatar must cause her no end of offence.

[marpat]

if you mean 10 dead israeli civilians vs 1500 dead palestinians.
I think facts on my side.

Not about numbers is it

[armoured_amazon]

Quite.

You're attempting to give equality to the killing of one Israeli with one thousand Palestinians. It certainly isn't the same and one is quite obviously worse than the other.

Oh whatever. Murder is murder, in ANY COUNTRY BY ANY PERSON.

Put two mothers side by side whose babies have been slain and you tell me which mother grieves hardest.

GTFO.

Not about numbers is it

Exactly!

I would imagine the problem is that she's less pro-Palestinian than I am. My avatar must cause her no end of offence.

The problem is that you're an idiot if you think murder is okay as long as it's not Palestinians being killed. What about people being slain in other countries around the world? Fuck them, eh? Nothing to do with you so what do you care? WTF ever, people like you piss me off.

[runciter]

And in here if you point out that fact that Palestinians have killed many UNARMED Israelis you are branded a zionist. Damn those facts!!

you are branded a PERSONAL INSULT REMOVED if you pretend to be ignorant about the illegal occupation (stealing) of palestinian land, and all the deliberate suffering inflicted on the palestinian people, particularly in the last few months and weeks.

the slaughtering of hundreds of gazans was pre-planned, the rockets were probably launched by israeli operatives.

[runciter]

The problem is that you're an idiot if you think murder is okay as long as it's not Palestinians being killed. What about people being slain in other countries around the world? Fuck them, eh? Nothing to do with you so what do you care? WTF ever, people like you piss me off.


why don't you ask your israeli friends what they think about the colonies in the west bank and the gaza siege.

[ban freekmasons]

great thread

[marpat]

uh, how many is many




again I must have missed something
I dont see any news sources saying

MANY UNARMED Israelis have been killed


I guess its just like the great hoax

if the Israelis say its so we all must believe its so !

or be accused of hurting their feeeelings

so we dont HAVE to see

MANY UNARMED Israelis have been killed

just accept it unproven.


no, not gonna happen.


May the Palestinian People live forever in
our hearts and to all of our shame.




`

Talk about turning a blind eye.

Here are some bits of news to open your eyes a little.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7225775.stm

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2000/10/Suicide%20bombing%20at%20the%20Sbarro%20pizzeria%2 0in%20Jerusale

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/09/23/MNGN78TFL41.DTL

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/rocket-attack-kills-two-israeli-children-548085.html

http://www.orange.co.uk/news/topstories/33469_pr.htm

http://www.iraq-war.ru/article/97645

http://lebanonwire.com/0607MLN/06071938LAF.asp

I could get more if you like. If you read them you will note that Hamas have killed a number of children as well. So much for their cause and your defence of it.

[marpat]

you are branded PERSONAL INSULT REMOVED if you pretend to be ignorant about the illegal occupation (stealing) of palestinian land, and all the deliberate suffering inflicted on the palestinian people, particularly in the last few months and weeks.

the slaughtering of hundreds of gazans was pre-planned, the rockets were probably launched by israeli operatives.


A bit of wishful thinking so that you can promote your own anti-Jewish feelings. Anybody can say stuff like that but a bit of proof would be nice. You got any? perhaps you could make it known to the public to show how evil they are :rolleyes:

[zarah]

Oh whatever. Murder is murder, in ANY COUNTRY BY ANY PERSON.

Put two mothers side by side whose babies have been slain and you tell me which mother grieves hardest.

GTFO.

GTFO?

Now we've gone from the abstract princple to the micocosm? Next to one of the those grieving mothers, put another 400 grieving mothers, and next to them put another 1,000 grieving families, and you about sum up the effect of the Israeli slaughter of the Palestinian people.

[runciter]

we should adress the invaders, not the invaded: resistance is legitimate, both sides have killed civilians.

and of course the numbers speak clearly, this is the reason why so many people say they're meaningless.

[runciter]

A bit of wishful thinking so that you can promote your own anti-Jewish feelings. Anybody can say stuff like that but a bit of proof would be nice. You got any? perhaps you could make it known to the public to show how evil they are :rolleyes:

have you got any proof that those rockets were fired by hamas?

false flags are common zionist strategy, as you certainly know.

edit: and it is documented that the attack was pre-planned.

[armoured_amazon]

GTFO?

Now we've gone from the abstract princple to the micocosm? Next to one of the those grieving mothers, put another 400 grieving mothers, and next to them put another 1,000 grieving families, and you about sum up the effect of the Israeli slaughter of the Palestinian people.

And that's why it never stops, because people like you talk figures instead of figuring it out.

[marpat]

we should adress the invaders, not the invaded: resistance is legitimate, both sides have killed civilians.

and of course the numbers speak clearly, this is the reason why so many people say they're meaningless.

You mean only condemn those who you hate. Ignore Hamas killings because they are just fighting for their freedom, is this what you are saying?

If American indians began to kill white American invaders would you think that is OK? perhaps we ought to set up a resistance fund for them to get the land back that the white man stole from them.

[zarah]

The problem is that you're an idiot if you think murder is okay as long as it's not Palestinians being killed. What about people being slain in other countries around the world? Fuck them, eh? Nothing to do with you so what do you care? WTF ever, people like you piss me off.

I would suggest you watch your mouth..I can't be bothered with people who have whiney (T)antrums, no matter what they think the image gives them.

This has nothing to do with how many other people in the world are killed and everything to do with you trying to justify Palestinian deaths and somehow equal Israeli suffering to what they're going through.

You have no idea of my opinions on struggle in any other part of the world, just of my opinions on this one and Im not about to share them with you.

Now as you're obviously incapable of rational debate, I think the conversations over.

[marpat]

have you got any proof that those rockets were fired by hamas?

false flags are common zionist strategy, as you certainly know.

edit: and it is documented that the attack was pre-planned.

ROFL. You are determined to beleive that hamas did not kill anybody.

I will admit that false flags op do exist and have been used by nations in the past but that does not mean that it has happened here.

[runciter]

And that's why it never stops, because people like you talk figures instead of figuring it out.

it never stops because zionist gangsters are free from judgement and punishment for their crimes.

[limelady]

Please keep the personal insults out of your posts and stick to the various points you are trying to make.

Thankyou. :)

[runciter]

You mean only condemn those who you hate. Ignore Hamas killings because they are just fighting for their freedom, is this what you are saying?

If American indians began to kill white American invaders would you think that is OK? perhaps we ought to set up a resistance fund for them to get the land back that the white man stole from them.

ok, you're saying that you approve of the stealing of palestinan land and their nazi oppression.

everyone should take a clear position.

[zarah]

And that's why it never stops, because people like you talk figures instead of figuring it out.

No, it never stops because you and your friends won't let it until Israel exists from the Nile to the Euphrates just like you imagine your bible says. It also never stops because you and your friends dehumanise those with a different belief system to you.

And that really is the end of the conversation. I can't abide mannerless people.

[runciter]

ROFL. You are determined to beleive that hamas did not kill anybody.

I will admit that false flags op do exist and have been used by nations in the past but that does not mean that it has happened here.

the rockets launched before the massacre killed no one, and you have no proof they were fired by hamas.

[phildee3]

Israelis are people living, having families and going about their daily routines just like Palestinians,



uhm, ok.

[marpat]

ok, you're saying that you approve of the stealing of palestinan land and their nazi oppression.

everyone should take a clear position.

I never stated that anywhere, but what about the comparison to other repressed people such as the Indians in the US? they are the native people but you never see them in politics, not at a high level anyway. They have had their land stole and their people killed.

[runciter]

I never stated that anywhere, but what about the comparison to other repressed people such as the Indians in the US? they are the native people but you never see them in politics, not at a high level anyway. They have had their land stole and their people killed.

and it was an injustice, and we should prevent this kind of injustices from happening.

this goes against your "war is natural and humans will always fight each other" beliefs.

[marpat]

the rockets launched before the massacre killed no one, and you have no proof they were fired by hamas.

:D

It is clear that you have only one intent and that is to believe Israel is the only protagonist in that area.

As it is clear neither of us can truly prove our points beyond doubt then how can you stick to your thoughts when basically you cannot prove them. I know, it is called wishful thinking. You want it to be true just so you can continue to call Israel evil, etc.

[runciter]

:D

It is clear that you have only one intent and that is to believe Israel is the only protagonist in that area.

As it is clear neither of us can truly prove our points beyond doubt then how can you stick to your thoughts when basically you cannot prove them. I know, it is called wishful thinking. You want it to be true just so you can continue to call Israel evil, etc.

you can't prove the rockets were fired by hamas, while zionist criminal behaviour is largely documented.

[marpat]

and it was an injustice, and we should prevent this kind of injustices from happening.

this goes against your "war is natural and humans will always fight each other" beliefs.


Beliefs? you only have to go for a night out to see that people will fight each other for the most trivial reasons. Maybe that is the key though, you need to get out and see what the real world is like, not the virtual world.

[marpat]

you can't prove the rockets were fired by hamas, while zionist criminal behaviour is largely documented.

Er, and Hamas attacks are not documented? I think there are plenty of news articles on that.

I see where you are going though. In your eyes Hamas has done no wrong and fired no missiles, neither have they bombed civilian areas and killed and Israeli children in their attacks, but Israel is a merciless murdering power that kills indiscriminately.

Talk about being biased.

[runciter]

Beliefs? you only have to go for a night out to see that people will fight each other for the most trivial reasons. Maybe that is the key though, you need to get out and see what the real world is like, not the virtual world.

we have wars in this elite-controlled reality, because war is the biggest business of them all, and because fear is an excellent tool for manipulation and subjugation.. the point is: shouldn't we do something to change this situation? your answer is no, to my understanding.

[phildee3]

israelis are people living, having families and going about their daily routines just like palestinians,



3600

[runciter]

Er, and Hamas attacks are not documented? I think there are plenty of news articles on that.

I see where you are going though. In your eyes Hamas has done no wrong and fired no missiles, neither have they bombed civilian areas and killed and Israeli children in their attacks, but Israel is a merciless murdering power that kills indiscriminately.

Talk about being biased.

who is stealing the land? who is the nazi oppressor?

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html

[marpat]

we have wars in this elite-controlled reality, because war is the biggest business of them all, and because fear is an excellent tool for manipulation and subjugation.. the point is: shouldn't we do something to change this situation? your answer is no, to my understanding.


Well your understanding of me is completely wrong.

I know war is big business and yes this needs to change but what you are doing is truning a blind eye to one set of killers while ready to accuse another set. Dont you think money flows into Hamas so that they can fund their 'struggle'? where do you think they get their weapons from? hamas are a funded militant group so they too are making money out of war. What if the struggle just ended there, how many hamas people and leaders would suddenly find themselves with no power or funding? such a thing happened in Northern Ireland and the bad guys turned to crime to keeps the coffers full. You think that they just give up their ways and walk into normal civilian jobs? no, these people are trained to kill. They would just go to Afghanistan and sell their services there, just as people are doing in Iraq.

[marpat]

who is stealing the land? who is the nazi oppressor?

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html


Why do you call them nazis? are the German workers party members?

Yes they are wrong to steal land.

[phildee3]

3601

...and this is what it was like before Hamas' rockets leveled Tel Aviv!

[runciter]

You think that they just give up their ways and walk into normal civilian jobs? no, these people are trained to kill. They would just go to Afghanistan and sell their services there, just as people are doing in Iraq.


hamas was initially a mossad creature, afghan mujahideens were trained and organized by western operatives (they later became "al qaeda"), and saddam was an illuminati puppet who did nothing to help the iraqis while un sanctions were killing 100.000s of people (mostly children).

and i think palestinian fighters would happily return to (= begin living) a normal life.

[armoured_amazon]

3600

Your point? You think all of Israel is like that? You think Israelis and Palestinians are subhuman compared to the rest of the world? That they are just killing machines? B****, please. Clearly you don't know anyone from that place.

[runciter]

i think his point was that most palestinians don't even know what a "normal life" is.

[phildee3]

Clearly you don't know anyone from that place.



Clearly none of us do.
They're not allowed out!

[marpat]

hamas was initially a mossad creature, afghan mujahideens were trained and organized by western operatives (they later became "al qaeda"), and saddam was an illuminati puppet who did nothing to help the iraqis while un sanctions were killing 100.000s of people (mostly children).

and i think palestinian fighters would happily return to (= begin living) a normal life.

Yes many groups were funded by the west but that is because proxy wars were fought during the cold war.

http://www.ujc.org/page.aspx?id=64336

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/ZER403A.html

Here are two websites that have different ideas on Hamas. I guess the choice of what to believe will depnd on your sympathies. We could argue that both are biased and promoting their own version of truth.

[marpat]

Clearly none of us do.
They're not allowed out!

Must be how none of them are granted asylum in the UK :rolleyes:

[armoured_amazon]

Clearly none of us do.
They're not allowed out!

Don't be silly, I know lots of people living in Liverpool. Makes sense now, how you can pass judgement when your only contact is through the media.

[runciter]

Yes many groups were funded by the west but that is because proxy wars were fought during the cold war.

http://www.ujc.org/page.aspx?id=64336

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/ZER403A.html

Here are two websites that have different ideas on Hamas. I guess the choice of what to believe will depnd on your sympathies. We could argue that both are biased and promoting their own version of truth.

chossudovsky is a canadian jewish professor who isn't afraid to speak (or publish) the truth about israel.

[runciter]

Must be how none of them are granted asylum in the UK :rolleyes:

the inhabitants of gaza are entrapped in a huge open-air prison (or lager).

[marpat]

chossudovsky is a canadian jewish professor who isn't afraid to speak (or publish) the truth about israel.

So being a professor makes his opinion infallible.

[runciter]

So being a professor makes his opinion infallible.

being jewish makes his opinion more credible, one can hardly accuse him of being an "antisemite".

[phildee3]

Must be how none of them are granted asylum in the UK :rolleyes:



Then I guess they deserve what they get -
if they choose to stay in Gaza!

[phildee3]

Don't be silly, I know lots of people living in Liverpool.



So do I.
How many of them are Palestinians though?

[phildee3]

So do I.
How many of them are Palestinians though?



Oh, sorry, aa.
I was thinking they were people.
Silly me!

[zarah]

being jewish makes his opinion more credible, one can hardly accuse him of being an "antisemite".

No,but he'll be classed as a self-hating jew, just like Norman Finklestein and Gilad Atzmon who also write about Israel's intentions and its appalling treatment of Palestinians.

[marpat]

being jewish makes his opinion more credible, one can hardly accuse him of being an "antisemite".


So being Jewish makes his views more credible? I think not

[runciter]

Gaza & The ‘Psychology’ Of Zionist Jews

By Brother Nathanael Kapner, Copyright 2008

MANY ARE WRITING TO ME expressing much consternation regarding Jewry’s response to Israel’s attacks on civilians in Gaza. “How is it that most Jews have no conscience in light of the atrocities committed by the Israelis against Palestinian children in Gaza?” many are asking me through various emails.

Having been raised as a Jew in an upper-middle class synagogue — and now a convert to the Russian Orthodox Christian Church — I am in a unique position to comprehend the “Jewish psyche.” This understanding comes from not only being a former “insider,” but also, from the moral vantage point of being a devoted follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Of course I run the risk of being called by my former co-religionists, a “self-hating Jew.” And needless to say, I will be hailed before Jewry’s tribunal as being a “rabid Anti-Semite.”

In answer to the first charge, I am no longer a Jew but rather a Christian. And followers of Christ are commanded to love God, not themselves. For the inverse of being a “self-hating” Jew is to be a “self-loving” Jew. I had eschewed this way of thinking when I embraced the teachings of Jesus Christ at the age of 21. (I am now 58.)

As for the second charge, no one buys into the “Anti-Semite” accusation any longer. The mandate to allow Jews to act in criminal ways with impunity has come to an end. Thus I begin my expose of the ‘psychology’ of Zionist Jews - much of which is drawn & quoted from the 1927 classic work, The Riddle Of The Jew’s Success, listed as my source above.

There is scarcely a field, from Art and Literature, to Academics and Political Economy, from Politics and Media, to the most secret domains of sensuality and criminality, in which the Jewish spirit cannot be clearly traced and has not imparted a peculiar warp to the affairs of life.

All the motives and activities of this Jewish spirit are directed towards obtaining an advantage over the “goyim.” Yet at the same time, the Jews imagine that with regard to ethics and morality, they are very exalted beings. No one speaks more effusively about ethical values than the Jews. But what the Jews are after in espousing “ethical values” is seeking their own advantage under the pretext that they are engaged in some praise-worthy and unselfish effort.

“We are protecting our right to exist!” insist the Jews in defense of their attacks on Gaza civilians. “We must wipe out the scourge of terrorism!” proclaim the Jews as their heroic mission in justifying the slaughter of Palestinian children. But in reality, it is the gain of “advantage” that the Jews are after when appealing to the Gentiles’ sense of right and wrong. And that “advantage” is to seize every inch of land owned by the Palestinians.

If one wished to sum up Jewish morality in one phrase, it would read as follows: “All is moral which brings advantage.” Owing to the Jewish denial of an afterlife and a hell to shun, Jews are simply incapable of applying a higher standard to the values of life than that of advantage and profit. This is why Zionist Jews can observe Israeli soldiers mutilating the tender bodies of Gazan children without any qualms of conscience.

The Zionist Jewish perception can be put in another way: “Morality is the art of over-reaching other people, and at the same time, creating the impression of a praise-worthy disposition — in fact — of representing what is in reality an offense against others, as an act of virtue.”

This is a twisted way of thinking. But Zionist Jews do not think in a straightforward manner. The Zionist Jew begins from a “defensive” posture - and like a boxer who is called a “spoiler” by means of weaves & bobs - the Zionist Jew is on a quest to exhaust, ruin, and finally, dismember his opponent. Gentiles are simply overwhelmed by this method of conquest, who in most cases, simply wish to live a life of uninterrupted peace.

We are now witnessing with regard to the massacres in Gaza, the continual strife caused by Jewry’s insistence of Israel’s “right to exist.” Chaos, conflict, and continual enmity between peoples and nations are all part of Zionist Jewry’s method to “exhaust” the Gentile world into a state of compliance with their criminal deeds.

But how long will the nations allow a small minority to dictate to them their criminal terms? Methinks that it will not be long, my friends. For it is written, “They who live by the sword must die by the sword.” Here is the patience and faith of the saints…

http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=363

[marpat]

Wow, you wouldnt think that somebody who converted from their religion would criticsie it while highlighting christian doctrine.:rolleyes: I am amazed

Not like christianity did not try and gain control of the same area by violence ;)

[runciter]

it's an enlightening article, it explains very well the supremacist mentality of organized jewry.

[marpat]

it's an enlightening article, it explains very well the supremacist mentality of organized jewry.


Just what you wanted to here :rolleyes:

I am sure that such things could be levelled at many religions. Look at christian bigotry and they way the treat many other religions as inferiors, referring to themselves as gods children.

How many nations have been invaded by western powers which then forcibly try to convert native populations to christianity. Same for Islam, many were given then choice of conversion or death.

[runciter]

not what i wanted to hear, but what i know is true, and all honest jews know about it.

[marpat]

not what i wanted to hear, but what i know is true, and all honest jews know about it.

Bit of a generalisation dont you think

Can I ask, are you a christian by any chance?

[runciter]

Bit of a generalisation dont you think

Can I ask, are you a christian by any chance?

it's about a "religious tradition", culture and not blood.

in the last few months i decided to consider myself a christian.

[marpat]

it's about a "religious tradition", culture and not blood.

in the last few months i decided to consider myself a christian.

Well your choice explains a lot to me.

[runciter]

Well your choice explains a lot to me.

maybe because one day you decided you're an anti-christian..

i was born in a christian country, i see no reason to reject its culture.

[runciter]

CONCLUSION

It doesn't take a genius to recognize that Talmudic behavior is the real cause of Anti-Semitism.

But the implications are far more serious. Meyer Amschel Rothschild was a Talmudist. This Satanic hatred of humanity, and Christianity in particular, is driving the New World Order. There is a direct line between the Crucifixion of Christ, who represented the God of Love, 9-11 and the New World Order in terms of the degradation of humanity through war and depression. If this logic is correct, humanity's fate is to be crucified like Christ or otherwise slaughtered or enslaved.

Like Stephen Bloom and myself, 90% of American Jews are secular and ignorant of the Talmud. We find its views abhorrent. But these attitudes are the hidden agenda of Zionism and organized Jewry. A gentile elite consisting of Freemasons (the Illuminati Order) has been created to advance this agenda. Barack Obama and most Western "leaders" belong to it.

The New World Order imperils humanity and assimilated Jews. As conditions deteriorate, anti-Semitism will become rampant. Jews must recognize that Judaism is not a religion but a conspiracy against humanity. It is also a conspiracy against Jews, whose security is endangered by its secret agenda. Zionism, Communism, Socialism, Liberalism, Neo Conservatism, Feminism are all deceitful means to establish the Masonic/Talmudic/Cabalistic central bankers in a thinly veiled "world government" tyranny.

Society has been brainwashed to reject the Protocols of the Elders of Zion which explains the methodology in detail. This document is not anti-Semitic; it is Satanic. I first recognized it was authentic when the author celebrated that a "cold and forlorn" mood had taken hold of Europe's cities. This is something no "forger" would think of.

Assimilated Jews need to dis-associate from organized Jewry and re-invent themselves as a people, recognizing how, like other peoples, they have been deceived and exploited by their so-called leaders. Like Stephen Bloom, assimilated Jews have a strong sense of truth, justice and God's bountifulness, and must join their Christian neighbors in putting America back on track.

http://www.henrymakow.com/jews_must_confront_dark_side_o.html

---

CONCLUSION

If your ethnic or religious group is being used secretly for evil, you had better distance yourself from it or you will be left holding the bag. This applies to almost everyone, not just Jews. As an ethnic Jew, I ask, does the Jewish god represent a universal moral order or a primitive tribal egregore (i.e. projection of group psyche?) Is the Jewish egregore now Lucifer?

The world has been taken over by a satanic cult. We are under constant occult attack. Instead of fighting among ourselves like they want, we must recognize that there are only two sides --God's and Satan's.

http://www.henrymakow.com/the_banker_conspiracy.html

[marpat]

maybe because one day you decided you're an anti-christian..

i was born in a christian country, i see no reason to reject its culture.


I am English but I am no christian. Never baptised either.

I guess I can be a bit anti-christian in the same way you are anti-jewish. I do know a lot of christians hate Jews. Bit of a competition for the gods children slot.

[runciter]

I am English but I am no christian. Never baptised either.

I guess I can be a bit anti-christian in the same way you are anti-jewish. I do know a lot of christians hate Jews. Bit of a competition for the gods children slot.

i'm not anti-jewish, i have a problem with the talmudic tradition: it considers me an inferior creature.

[runciter]

The "God" that Serves Elite Jews

February 16, 2007

By Henry Makow Ph.D.

Last week I noted that the Soviets razed thousands of churches but spared synagogues.

If Communists considered religion "the opium of the masses," why didn’t they include Judaism? Do Christians and Jews worship the same God? Is there an affinity between Communism and Judaism?

Perhaps the Jewish elite has a different God. A reader, "George," knew the heiress of a rich Jewish banking family "not the Rothschilds, although her family dwelled in a palace neighbouring the Rothschilds."

"Leah was one of my classmates in the Geneva University (Switzerland) where I was studying psychology ...She was an attractive blue-eyed blond lady. ...As she was wearing a Star of David, I asked if she was a believer. She answered "yes and no” and added that she believed in a god of the Jews who was serving the Jews rather than served by them. I immediately asked whether she was speaking of an egregore ...Her only response was "yes” and she broke that conversation. Never again did we mention the subject."

According to Wikipedia, "egregore" is an occult concept representing a "thought form" or "collective group mind", an autonomous psychic entity made up of, and influencing, the thoughts of a group of people. The symbiotic relationship between an egregore and its group has been compared to the more recent, non-occult concepts of the corporation (as a legal entity) and the meme."

George speculates that elite Jews created the Jewish God as their "egregore," i.e. an instrument of their collective will, i.e. their desire to vanquish the heathens and rule supreme.

"Could it be possible that the ancient Levite priests found a way to create a supernatural entity from the collective mind of the tribe of Judah? An entity born from a collective mind the Levites were shaping into self-isolationism and segregationist a.k.a, extreme ethno-centrism? ...An entity designed to help the "chosen people” destroy the "alien" nations and provide it with material rewards? An entity resulting from the black magic of the Levite priests who, as the first indoctrinated atheists, were denying the universal God of Moses because they didn't want to submit to a “Lord and Master” but rather become themselves "Lords and Masters” through their slavish "egregorious” god?"

This "egregore" is Lucifer, and elite Jews have made him the master meme of the New World Order. The elite Jews are the "Communist Capitalist International", the intermarried German Jewish banking families who, according to Christian Rakovsky include the Rothschilds, Warburgs, Schiffs and many others.

They have also intermarried with the corrupt gentile elites of Europe and America, many of whom think they are Jews.

THE DEPRAVED SPIRIT OF OUR AGE

Since the Jewish egregore is also behind the New World Order, we should recall that according to this mindset, only the subscribers ("believers") are human; everyone else is an animal to be exploited and/or slaughtered.

Nicholas Lysson, in his brilliant essay on the Ukrainian Holocaust, provides examples of this "us-vs-them" thinking in the Talmud and the Old Testament. For example: Isaiah 60:12 (“ . . .The nation and kingdom that will not serve [Israel] shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted” ); Isaiah 61:5-6 (“. . .Strangers shall stand and feed your flocks. . . : Ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles. . .”)

Lysson continues:

"The ethnocentric hostility of the Jews—consistently commented on by the peoples who have encountered them over the millennia—can be traced ultimately to the origins of Judaism as set forth in the Torah, e.g., Genesis 9:25 (“Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren”); Exodus 17:14-16 and 34:12-13 ; Numbers 24:8 (“God. . . shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows”), 25:6-13 (wherein God commends Phineas for his initia-tive in running a javelin through both parties to a marriage of Jew and gentile), 31:7-19 and 33:50-56; and Deuteronomy 2:33-35 (“[on God’s command] we. . . utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain”), 3:4-7, 7:1-5 (“thou shalt. . . utterly destroy them”), 7:14-26 (“thine eye shall have no pity”), 20:10-17 (“thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth”) and 25:19."

"ANTI SEMITISM"

It doesn't take a genius to recognize that this "egregore" is the cause of anti Semitism. Jewish leaders use anti Semitism to manipulate Jews who are taught they are reviled for no reason. The real reasons for anti Semitism are hidden. As Nicholas Lysson points out, the most damning passages of the Talmud are toned down or not translated. Information about the "Arendar" system is suppressed. This system caused the massacre of perhaps 250,000 Jews by the Ukrainian Cossack Bohdan Khmelnytsky in 1648-1654:

"The Jews at the time of the massacres were serving the Polish szlachta (nobility) and Roman Catholic clergy on their Ukrainian latifundia as arendars—toll-, rent- and tax-farmers, enforcers of corvee obligations, licensees of feudal monopolies (e.g., on banking, milling, storekeeping, and distillation and sale of alcohol), and as anti-Christian scourges who even collected tithes at the doors of the peasants’ Greek Orthodox churches and exacted fees to open those doors for weddings, christenings and funerals. They had life and death powers over the local population (the typical form of execution being impalement), and no law above them to which that population had recourse... the arendars leased estates for terms of only two or three years and had every incentive to wring the peasants mercilessly, without regard to long-term consequences."

Jews are still told that these pogroms were due to gratuitous hatred. Thus the egregore dynamic is perpetuated as ordinary Jews support Zionist policies. For example, they clamour to bomb Iran, regardless of the disastrous consequences for humanity.

(For this form of manipulation, also used to control Americans, See "The Zionist Roots of the War on Terror" and "The Zionist Protection Racket")

In the above-mentioned essay, Nicholas Lysson discusses how the Jewish leadership actively provoke anti Semitism because it is indispensable for Jewish cohesion and survival. Jews acknowledge this. Are they saying that, without its "egregore" i.e. its predatory agenda, Jews would have no corporate raison d'etre? Of course this secret is kept from the rank-and-file, as in Freemasonry which Rakowsky said is designed to bring about "the triumph of Communism."

THE COMMUNIST EGREGORE

The greatest mass slaughter in history was not the Jewish holocaust but the Ukrainian Holodomor. By Stalin's own estimate, ten million Ukrainians died, mostly at the hands of Bolshevik Jews.

Lysson's account suggests that this was the result of a centuries-long feud in which Jews failed to accept their common humanity with non-Jews. This continues as the murderous record of the 20th century is overshadowed by Jewish losses, as if only Jews were human.

The Holodomor took place because the Bolsheviks confiscated all the grain. Lysson writes: “A quarter of the rural population, men, women and children, lay dead or dying in a great stretch of territory with some forty million inhabitants, like one vast Belsen. The rest, in various stages of debilitation, had no strength to bury their families or neighbours. [As at Belsen] well-fed squads of police or party officials supervised the victims.”

The extermination of the Ukrainian Kulaks was directed from the Kremlin where the Bolshevik leadership lived in family apartments and maintained a fraternal atmosphere suffused by collectivist idealism i.e. their egregore. This is how historian Simon Sebag Montefiore, the scion of a British elite Jewish family, describes the scene during the Holomodor. Of course he doesn’t mention that most of the main players were Jews.

"The Party was almost a family business. Whole clans were members of the leadership... This pitiless fraternity lived in a sleepless frenzy of excitement and activity, driven by adrenalin and conviction. Regarding themselves like God on the first day, they were creating a new world in a red-hot frenzy... " (Stalin: The Court of the Red Tsar, p. 40, 45, emphasis mine)

CONCLUSION

The Soviets didn't raze synagogues because Communism was an expression of the Jewish "egregore." Christians and Jews apparently do not worship the same God. The Christian God represented by Jesus is universal love and brotherhood. The Jewish God has been supplanted by a Cabalistic egregore that "serves" elite Jews. It represents their ruthless sociopathic urge for world dominion. The same egregore--the desire to supplant God-- animates the New World Order.

The average Communist Jew or non-Jew was an idealistic dupe. Marxism, equality etc. were just window dressing to hide the real agenda: the destruction of race, religion, family and nation; the accumulation of all wealth and the enslavement of mankind. The methods have changed but the agenda has not.

The average Zionist is also an idealistic dupe. As many now realize, "the Jewish Homeland" was simply a step toward world government, "an incident in a far reaching plan" to use banker Louis Marshall's words. Christian Zionists are the biggest dupes of all.

The same ersatz idealism infuses the world government movement, which is full of pious opportunists who have sold their heritage for a seat at the globalist banquet.

In many cases, the charge of "anti semitism" and "hate" are devious attempts to outlaw opposition to Tyranny. Let's not kid ourselves. We are facing a diabolical Evil, ruthless, vicious and cunning as well. Jews and non-Jews must join hands to banish Lucifer and declare that only God is God, He is Moral and we serve Him.

http://www.henrymakow.com/001924.html

[marpat]

i'm not anti-jewish, i have a problem with the talmudic tradition: it considers me an inferior creature.


Im sure Sharia law would as well as to a muslim you will be unclean

[marpat]

That article you posted is crap. An egregore is not a god. The old testament is actually totally against such things. Egregores could be likened to the false gods in the bible.

The god of jesus has to be the god of the jews. Did he not spend his time in the temple debating the law? fair enough his views on it were controversial but he was jewish all the same. Also, when he healed one person he told them to go to the temple and offer according to the commandments of moses, which basically meant he told them to go and do a blood sacrifice for thanks. Try reading up on it. Did he not call to Eli on the cross? Yhvh is often said to be merciful in the OT and is 'slow to anger, quick to forgive'. When a woman asked Jesus to help her he initially said that he said that he had come for the redemption of Israel. Basically she was an outsider and he was going to ignore her at first. he helped her after she made a grovelling approach.

Lets face it though, it is not hard to find christian based web sites that condemn jews is it? such has been goin on for centuries. They have always been despised by christians.

[eternal_spirit]

Jewish gangsters in Russia have become increasingly linked to traffic in "white slaves" and prostitutes through Israel, according to a recent report in the Jerusalem Post. Israel turns an official blind eye to forced prostitution, and does not punish Israeli citizens who choose to own "sex slaves", as long as the slaves are foreign and non-Jews. The Russian Oligarchs/Gangtsers are Zionist Jews.

http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-atrocities-blood-libel.html

[eternal_spirit]

. Also, when he healed one person he told them to go to the temple and offer according to the commandments of moses, which basically meant he told them to go and do a blood sacrifice for thanks. Try reading up on it. Did he not call to Eli on the cross? Yhvh is often said to be merciful in the OT and is 'slow to anger, quick to forgive'. When a woman asked Jesus to help her he initially said that he said that he had come for the redemption of Israel. Basically she was an outsider and he was going to ignore her at first. he helped her after she made a grovelling approach.

Lets face it though, it is not hard to find christian based web sites that condemn jews is it? such has been goin on for centuries. They have always been despised by christians.
Of course it's debatable and there are different stories
I read a post by think it was Drakul
The last supper which became part of the Christian mass which replaced the blood sacrifice with wine.
Jesus was against usury which was and still maybe not practised by some Christians, this was certainly the case in England up until 1694.

He spoke out against the Pharisees the Jewish priesthood. Maybe they and the Romans got together and killed him because he was getting a following and they seen him as a threat to their authority.

Any wonder with Talmudic anti Christs and a fair share of Jewish Satanists with their black mass not to mention the blood libel ritual murder of Christian children.

[simplify]

I never stated that anywhere, but what about the comparison to other repressed people such as the Indians in the US? they are the native people but you never see them in politics, not at a high level anyway. They have had their land stole and their people killed.

You don't see the Native Indians in politics, because it is not encouraged by the whites. They are kept out of politics so they can keep the lid on a very hot political potato, which if given the chance could explode in their faces.

[simplify]

Jewish gangsters in Russia have become increasingly linked to traffic in "white slaves" and prostitutes through Israel, according to a recent report in the Jerusalem Post. Israel turns an official blind eye to forced prostitution, and does not punish Israeli citizens who choose to own "sex slaves", as long as the slaves are foreign and non-Jews. The Russian Oligarchs/Gangtsers are Zionist Jews.

http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-atrocities-blood-libel.html

Seems to fly in the face of their thinking that anyone outside their group is unclean......why would they then mix with white prostitutes?

[eternal_spirit]

Seems to fly in the face of their thinking that anyone outside their group is unclean......why would they then mix with white prostitutes?


It's part of the Talmud's teachings, Jews are allowed to keep slaves. If you've seen much porno note how many men are circumcised, Ron Jeremy (Jew) was one of the best known. It's said they have alot of control over the Porn industry.

Also there's alot of Jews who marry white women in Hollywood.

[simplify]

It's part of the Talmud's teachings, Jews are allowed to keep slaves. If you've seen much porno note how many men are circumcised, Ron Jeremy (Jew) was one of the best known. It's said they have alot of control over the Porn industry.

Also there's alot of Jews who marry white women in Hollywood.

eternal_spirit:D no I have not watched any porno...(doesn't interest me):D

This is very confusing to me, at the very least hypocritical. They can have white slaves, and they marry white hollywood women.....ok.....confused. The Talmud says we are unclean.....hmmmmmmm:confused:

[runciter]

That article you posted is crap. An egregore is not a god. The old testament is actually totally against such things. Egregores could be likened to the false gods in the bible.

The god of jesus has to be the god of the jews. Did he not spend his time in the temple debating the law? fair enough his views on it were controversial but he was jewish all the same. Also, when he healed one person he told them to go to the temple and offer according to the commandments of moses, which basically meant he told them to go and do a blood sacrifice for thanks. Try reading up on it. Did he not call to Eli on the cross? Yhvh is often said to be merciful in the OT and is 'slow to anger, quick to forgive'. When a woman asked Jesus to help her he initially said that he said that he had come for the redemption of Israel. Basically she was an outsider and he was going to ignore her at first. he helped her after she made a grovelling approach.

Lets face it though, it is not hard to find christian based web sites that condemn jews is it? such has been goin on for centuries. They have always been despised by christians.

elite jews have always had a different religion, based on the occult and indifferent to morality.

[marpat]

You don't see the Native Indians in politics, because it is not encouraged by the whites. They are kept out of politics so they can keep the lid on a very hot political potato, which if given the chance could explode in their faces.


Which is my point exactly. People go on about Palestinians when there are oppressed people in their very country.

[marpat]

elite jews have always had a different religion, based on the occult and indifferent to morality.


So if they are indifferent to morality why do they have laws that govern behaviour? have you ever actually read the old testament? really you need to have a look at it and read up on the laws mentioned in it.

My understanding of jewish religion is that the books of the old testament are the source authority but books like the talmud are seperate books that have been developed by rabbis to cover things not written in the bible. Its a bit like the Koran being the source book for muslims but sharia being a system that is only based on the Koran. For instance, sharia law mentions punishements for crimes that are not stated in the koran. People have filled in the gaps where they thought necessary.

Christianity is also an esoteric tradition. Jesus spoke openly to his disciples but spoke in parables to the masses. In short he kept them in the dark unless they could work it out for themselves. The disciples never had to do this.

[marpat]

It's part of the Talmud's teachings, Jews are allowed to keep slaves. If you've seen much porno note how many men are circumcised, Ron Jeremy (Jew) was one of the best known. It's said they have alot of control over the Porn industry.

Also there's alot of Jews who marry white women in Hollywood.

Note that the talmud is not actually endorsed fully by the bible. The talmud is a system, to my knowledge, that has been written into jewish religion to cover gaps in the religious lives of people if not covered by the laws of the old testament. It is a bit like the many laws of the church that have no basis in the bible, like catholics eating fish on frisday, etc.

Some people are circumcised for medical reasons. I have two friends who had to get it done and they were baptised as christians.

[thetonic]

Some people are circumcised for medical reasons. I have two friends who had to get it done and they were baptised as christians.

Please eloborate... Ive never heard of the necessity for genital mutilation

[eternal_spirit]

quote: marpat
Note that the talmud is not actually endorsed fully by the bible. The talmud is a system, to my knowledge, that has been written into jewish religion to cover gaps in the religious lives of people if not covered by the laws of the old testament. It is a bit like the many laws of the church that have no basis in the bible, like catholics eating fish on frisday, etc.

Correct

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10703

[marpat]

Please eloborate... Ive never heard of the necessity for genital mutilation

I dont know the full details!!! try researching it. I'm sure they said they needed it for some medical reason. As they were baptised as christians (C of E)I could not imagine why there would be any religious reason.

Just spoke to my wife, who is a nurse, and she reckons that it can be required if the foreskin is too tight, which can be painful. She said there is no need for female circumcision though.

[marpat]

Correct

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10703

wow you agreed with me :cool:

[phildee3]

wow you agreed with me :cool:



You're on a roll, marp!

[marpat]

You're on a roll, marp!

high five anybody :D

[eternal_spirit]

I dont know the full details!!! try researching it. I'm sure they said they needed it for some medical reason. As they were baptised as christians (C of E)I could not imagine why there would be any religious reason.

Just spoke to my wife, who is a nurse, and she reckons that it can be required if the foreskin is too tight, which can be painful. She said there is no need for female circumcision though.

Right twice in one day we agree lol
I have heard of this happening it's rare (phimosis is the medical term I think) that's the only time it's justifiable

Not sure if there's another cure like stretching of the skin (which can take along time) without the need to cut.

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/

We are a group of educated and enlightened Jews who realize that the barbaric, primitive, torturous, and mutilating practice of circumcision has no place in modern Judaism.
Rabbi Moses Maimonides (http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/jewish.htm) himself acknowledged that circumcision is done to desensitize the penis and curb masturbation.
Jews are some of the smartest people in the world. We are 1/3rd of 1% of the population, yet we hold 33% of Nobel prizes. We are smart enough to understand that mutilating a little boys' penis is not an acceptable practice in modern times.

[marpat]

http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/

We are a group of educated and enlightened Jews who realize that the barbaric, primitive, torturous, and mutilating practice of circumcision has no place in modern Judaism.
Rabbi Moses Maimonides (http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/jewish.htm) himself acknowledged that circumcision is done to desensitize the penis and curb masturbation.
Jews are some of the smartest people in the world. We are 1/3rd of 1% of the population, yet we hold 33% of Nobel prizes. We are smart enough to understand that mutilating a little boys' penis is not an acceptable practice in modern times.


So does this rabbi not bother with all of that then and if so wht are his thoughts on it breaking his religious code? my own opinion is that religious codes develop as people develop so that something that may have been the norm or necessary 1000 years ago is pointless nowadays. My thinking is that if the soul evolves then religion must evolve to satifsy its requirements.

[eternal_spirit]

Maybe they consider themselves reformed, and try leave out what they think are the bad parts of the religion.

[onourwayto2012]

Perhaps it's time we adopted some of the Zionist practices and began a vendetta against all the Jewish monopolies of both legal and illegal businesses and institutions.... and became TRUE anti-semites(actually anti-zionist) in the way they are anti-goyim or whatever the f*ck it is. Look I know stereotypes don't apply to everyone but they also aren't just made up out of nothing. There is usually alot of truth to them and the Jews are no exception. There is some grand irony in the fact that God's "chosen people" are the ones with a long history of doing what they do. Manipulation, greed, disregard for others outside of their clique...etc... etc.... and this of course is putting it all mildly. Can anyone shed some light on how they got started in all of this and who they are? I just wonder how they came up with such a vile agenda..... having said that I realize most groups have horrific histories but few have wound up in so much control with such a hands off policy.. ok...done with my pseudo rant.












8

[comawhite015]

O yey, another thread where eternal_spirit posts reactionary link upon link upon link.

No, really, I can't wait.

[runciter]

So if they are indifferent to morality why do they have laws that govern behaviour? have you ever actually read the old testament? really you need to have a look at it and read up on the laws mentioned in it.

My understanding of jewish religion is that the books of the old testament are the source authority but books like the talmud are seperate books that have been developed by rabbis to cover things not written in the bible. Its a bit like the Koran being the source book for muslims but sharia being a system that is only based on the Koran. For instance, sharia law mentions punishements for crimes that are not stated in the koran. People have filled in the gaps where they thought necessary.

Christianity is also an esoteric tradition. Jesus spoke openly to his disciples but spoke in parables to the masses. In short he kept them in the dark unless they could work it out for themselves. The disciples never had to do this.

laws are for the common people, so that the elite can control them.

[runciter]

i just posted this in another thread:

Interpretation of the Bible

It will be seen from the foregoing example that what most supposedly well-informed people think they know about Judaism may be very misleading, unless they can read Hebrew. All the details mentioned above can be found in the original texts or, in some cases, in modern books written in Hebrew for a rather specialized readership. In English one would look for them in vain, even where the omission of such socially important facts distorts the whole picture.

There is yet another misconception about Judaism which is particularly common among Christians, or people heavily influenced by Christian tradition and culture. This is the misleading idea that Judaism is a 'biblical religion'; that the Old Testament has in Judaism the same central place and legal authority which the Bible has for Protestant or even Catholic Christianity.

Again, this is connected with the question of interpretation. We have seen that in matters of belief there is great latitude. Exactly the opposite holds with respect to the legal interpretation of sacred texts. Here the interpretation is rigidly fixed - but by the Talmud rather than by the Bible itself. Many, perhaps most, biblical verses prescribing religious acts and obligations are 'understood' by classical Judaism, and by present day Orthodoxy, in a sense which is quite distinct from, or even contrary to, their literal meaning as understood by Christian or other readers of the Old Testament, who only see the plain text. The same division exists at present in Israel between those educated in Jewish religious schools and those educated in 'secular' Hebrew schools, where on the whole the plain meaning of the Old Testament is taught.

This important point can only be understood through examples. It will be noted that the changes in meaning do not all go in the same direction from the point of view of ethics, as the term is understood now. Apologetics of Judaism claim that the interpretation of the Bible, originated by the Pharisees and fixed in the Talmud, is always more liberal than the literal sense. But some of the examples below show that this is far from being the case. (...)

http://abbc.net/historia/shahak/english.htm#3

(from israel shahak's "jewish history, jewish religion")

[marpat]

laws are for the common people, so that the elite can control them.

So if a person governs themselves you could not call that self imposed law?

Even the elite are bound by laws you know. Some members of the royal family have been fined for speeding :D

You also have to make a difference between laws that govern religion and those of materialistic society. In all areas of life moderation and correct action is needed. To help this process along you need something to guide people, hence laws.

If there were no laws and somebody battered you over the head, or robbed you or raped your woman would you feel that something should be done to prevent that?

[marpat]

i just posted this in another thread:

Interpretation of the Bible

It will be seen from the foregoing example that what most supposedly well-informed people think they know about Judaism may be very misleading, unless they can read Hebrew. All the details mentioned above can be found in the original texts or, in some cases, in modern books written in Hebrew for a rather specialized readership. In English one would look for them in vain, even where the omission of such socially important facts distorts the whole picture.

There is yet another misconception about Judaism which is particularly common among Christians, or people heavily influenced by Christian tradition and culture. This is the misleading idea that Judaism is a 'biblical religion'; that the Old Testament has in Judaism the same central place and legal authority which the Bible has for Protestant or even Catholic Christianity.

Again, this is connected with the question of interpretation. We have seen that in matters of belief there is great latitude. Exactly the opposite holds with respect to the legal interpretation of sacred texts. Here the interpretation is rigidly fixed - but by the Talmud rather than by the Bible itself. Many, perhaps most, biblical verses prescribing religious acts and obligations are 'understood' by classical Judaism, and by present day Orthodoxy, in a sense which is quite distinct from, or even contrary to, their literal meaning as understood by Christian or other readers of the Old Testament, who only see the plain text. The same division exists at present in Israel between those educated in Jewish religious schools and those educated in 'secular' Hebrew schools, where on the whole the plain meaning of the Old Testament is taught.

This important point can only be understood through examples. It will be noted that the changes in meaning do not all go in the same direction from the point of view of ethics, as the term is understood now. Apologetics of Judaism claim that the interpretation of the Bible, originated by the Pharisees and fixed in the Talmud, is always more liberal than the literal sense. But some of the examples below show that this is far from being the case. (...)

http://abbc.net/historia/shahak/english.htm#3

(from israel shahak's "jewish history, jewish religion")

Not even your own work. You are just quoting verbatim anything you can find to back up your opinion.

Yes there are discrepencies which have several roots. Translation from English to Hebrew is not always exact, as is the case with many language translations. An example, the bible say suffer not a witch to live but I read a book by a Jewish guy who say the hebrew word is actually closer to 'poisoner', so it would be closer to say suffer not a poisoner to live. There is also the probability that somethings were deliberately changed during translation to suit the mentality of the people guiding the translation. Another major fact is that the old testament is basically a kabalistic document with many secrets hidden in code. Any person unfamiliar with this will read some parts and think it makes no sense. If people then try to base their theology on something they dont really know then they end up with false theology.

[runciter]

So if a person governs themselves you could not call that self imposed law?

Even the elite are bound by laws you know. Some members of the royal family have been fined for speeding :D

You also have to make a difference between laws that govern religion and those of materialistic society. In all areas of life moderation and correct action is needed. To help this process along you need something to guide people, hence laws.

If there were no laws and somebody battered you over the head, or robbed you or raped your woman would you feel that something should be done to prevent that?

marpat i was talking about biblical laws, laws given by a god and not chosen by people.

a society can't exist without rules, i guess, but they should be democratically approved.

[runciter]

Not even your own work. You are just quoting verbatim anything you can find to back up your opinion.

Yes there are discrepencies which have several roots. Translation from English to Hebrew is not always exact, as is the case with many language translations. An example, the bible say suffer not a witch to live but I read a book by a Jewish guy who say the hebrew word is actually closer to 'poisoner', so it would be closer to say suffer not a poisoner to live. There is also the probability that somethings were deliberately changed during translation to suit the mentality of the people guiding the translation. Another major fact is that the old testament is basically a kabalistic document with many secrets hidden in code. Any person unfamiliar with this will read some parts and think it makes no sense. If people then try to base their theology on something they dont really know then they end up with false theology.

i'm quoting israel shahak, do a little research on him and decide if he's a reliable source.

[marpat]

marpat i was talking about biblical laws, laws given by a god and not chosen by people.

a society can't exist without rules, i guess, but they should be democratically approved.

OK fair point.

Lets look at religion though. If the deity needs to be approached in a certain way, ie. with purity, etc. Then there will need to be something that governs that behaviour. If a persons mind is full of darkness and evil and they then enter the sacred place then they will begin to pollute that on a subtle level.

Also lets look at it in terms of electricity. If the god is the huge power source and the worshipper is like a conducting cable then the more able the worshipper is to conduct that power the better. If that person is not prepare then they act like resistance and the effect of resistance in a cable is that it heats up. If this happens to a great degree then burning can occur. The laws are then to help people conduct that power more efficnelty for their own safety. How many people have supposedly went insane because of incorrect kundalini arousal?

[marpat]

i'm quoting israel shahak, do a little research on him and decide if he's a reliable source.

I can agree with what I read though. I just get annoyed when people use huge amounts of other people work rather than their own thinking.

I did hear that even the early christians were limited to the first five books of Moses so perhaps even then they were trying to get back to original root doctrine.

[runciter]

OK fair point.

Lets look at religion though. If the deity needs to be approached in a certain way, ie. with purity, etc. Then there will need to be something that governs that behaviour. If a persons mind is full of darkness and evil and they then enter the sacred place then they will begin to pollute that on a subtle level.

Also lets look at it in terms of electricity. If the god is the huge power source and the worshipper is like a conducting cable then the more able the worshipper is to conduct that power the better. If that person is not prepare then they act like resistance and the effect of resistance in a cable is that it heats up. If this happens to a great degree then burning can occur. The laws are then to help people conduct that power more efficnelty for their own safety. How many people have supposedly went insane because of incorrect kundalini arousal?

ok, but this has nothing to do with morality: you're talking about magickal techniques.

[runciter]

I can agree with what I read though. I just get annoyed when people use huge amounts of other people work rather than their own thinking.

I did hear that even the early christians were limited to the first five books of Moses so perhaps even then they were trying to get back to original root doctrine.

there are only two possibilities:

shahak is a reliable source and he's stating the truth.

shahak is a self-hating jew and every bit of his research is corrupted by hatred.

[phildee3]

Even the elite are bound by laws you know. Some members of the royal family have been fined for speeding



Nowhere near as many as have gotten away with murder!

(boy, those speeding fines must really have hurt them :rolleyes:).

[ayomide]

Lets be honest and frank here people.

No one really trusts a Jew - it's a fact - mention the word Jew to people anywhere in the world and you will be provided with an array of different energies. Now there are good jews out there but most of them are to arrogant - I have encountered a few jewish people and they all have the same streak 'Arrogance' - they walk around this world and tell you they God's chosen people what kind of arrogance is that?

In SA - they trying to make Palastine look bad - Carte Blanche a local news channel that investigates everything and anything of relevence - I used to enjoy watching it but after I saw subliminal racism, sexism etc in it I stopped, last nights show was about Israel and Palastine and instead of bringing up the core issue and telling people the truth they lied about Gaza - made it look bad. It's disgusting! Also SA is also run by Jews behind the scenes.


Extract from the article of —
Jewish Diamond Apartheid And Black Racism —
"Don't Be Deceived, Don't Be Betrayed"

Israel's bio-weapons program should be a sobering call for humanity to defend itself against the Jews! It is amazing that Jews think other people should care about the abuse to Jews during WW II, when they are guilty of as much abuse to other races. What a joke! Just because the Nazis were bad doesn't mean that the Jews were good. At least, the Nazis were up-front and in your face, unlike the Jews that are behind your back and up your ass! In fact, if it weren't for the Jews, there wouldn't have been a World War II. Germany had other economic and social problems during the pre-WW II period due to World War I sanctions, but it was the larceny of the Jew working counter to the best interest of the German nation that gave the Nazis the emotional edge to gain power in Germany. The self-serving Jew in an already unstable social and political environment created an explosive combination. The German people saw the Nazis as their salvation from the thievery of the Jew, whose avaricious and criminal activities were ripping Germany apart at a time when national cohesion was critical. It wasn't persecution the Jews were afraid of, it was prosecution. Not only did the Jews bring the Nazis down on themselves by their sociopathic antics, but everyone else in the process. Anyone that has experienced the wickedness of a Jew understands why the German people embraced the Nazis over the Jews. Evil begets evil! Nazi Germany is an example of when Jew lies run out. You can never get the stench of a Jew's cruelty out of your nose. Another word for "Holocaust" is "payback".

http://www.amnotes.net/ap.html

[phildee3]

there are only two possibilities:

shahak is a reliable source and he's stating the truth.

shahak is a self-hating jew and every bit of his research is corrupted by hatred.



No, there is only one possibility:

Some of what he says is the truth and some of it is corrupted.

Just like everyone else!

[runciter]

No, there is only one possibility:

Some of what he says is the truth and some of it is corrupted.

Just like everyone else!

there are truthful men in this world, and shahak was one of them.

[phildee3]

there are truthful men in this world, and shahak was one of them.



No man is 100% truthful.
If he were, he wouldn't be a man.

[runciter]

No man is 100% truthful.
If he were, he wouldn't be a man.

honesty is a human attribute.

[phildee3]

honesty is a human attribute.



So is dishonesty!

[runciter]

but dishonesty is artificial.

[marpat]

but dishonesty is artificial.

Perhaps honesty is to. Remember, people are told not to lie by the bible!!! who benefits from that?

[kasalt]

No human being has ever been 100% honest throughout his entire lifetime. Anyone who says they have been 100% honest is lying. Even Jesus appears to have lied at least once, as recorded in the New Testament. It's recorded in the gospel of John:
Jesus said to them...“I do not go up to this feast because My time has not yet fully come.” Having said these things to them, He stayed in Galilee. But when His brothers had gone up to the feast, then He Himself also went up, not publicly, but as if, in secret. (John 7:8-10)

[phildee3]

dishonesty is artificial.



So is man.

[novymir]

So if a person governs themselves you could not call that self imposed law?

Even the elite are bound by laws you know. Some members of the royal family have been fined for speeding :D

You also have to make a difference between laws that govern religion and those of materialistic society. In all areas of life moderation and correct action is needed. To help this process along you need something to guide people, hence laws.

If there were no laws and somebody battered you over the head, or robbed you or raped your woman would you feel that something should be done to prevent that?

Wrong. They don't 'prevent" anything. The "law" becomes involved after the fact. I don't need no government "protection", they're the biggest mass-murderers and oppressors in the history of the world. Keep on sleeping...

"Laws" are what the Matrix is built on. All "laws" are a product of the Matrix. The "problem-solvers" are the "problem-creators"(when you treat people like children or "defective, and download that program into their heads, what do you think is the likely outcome?). Laws serve no purpose, except to fool us into believing we are good-evil or defective, exploiting/manipulating our free-will in ways that results in many of us being the tools that validate/manifest that dualistic illusion.

A criminal gang is already running this world, they are not perfect, or in complete control, they are weak and afraid. Their only "strength" is deception and fearmongering, if they were strong they would not need to steal our energy, they would not need to decieve us. In Truth it is they/it that is limited by their own belief in "laws", and disconnection from the True Authority.
"Laws" are a mind-game of The Matrix. "Laws" are the result of "government"(and psuedo-authorities), and govern(control)-ment(e)(mind) translates into Mind control.

[phildee3]

In all areas of life moderation and correct action is needed. To help this process along you need something to guide people,



Ever heard of conscience?

[novymir]

Ever heard of conscience?

Hehe... yeah, that's what they've been trying so hard to suppress/deny and substitute their "laws" for.
With great results!

[runciter]

No human being has ever been 100% honest throughout his entire lifetime. Anyone who says they have been 100% honest is lying. Even Jesus appears to have lied at least once, as recorded in the New Testament. It's recorded in the gospel of John:
Jesus said to them...“I do not go up to this feast because My time has not yet fully come.” Having said these things to them, He stayed in Galilee. But when His brothers had gone up to the feast, then He Himself also went up, not publicly, but as if, in secret. (John 7:8-10)


john is the less reliable of the evangelists imo, he pursued an "anti-gnostic" policy against thomas.

and i think "100% honest" is a meaningless concept, perfection is a human invention, it doesn't exist.

[runciter]

So is man.

yes there are some bots, but there are also many genuine people.

[phildee3]

and i think "100% honest" is a meaningless concept, perfection is a human invention, it doesn't exist.



You contradict yourself:



yes there are some bots, but there are also many genuine people.

[runciter]

according to your logic, not to mine: honesty is a tendency, not a "law".

[phildee3]

according to your logic, not to mine: honesty is a tendency, not a "law".



I'm not talking about law.
Law is dishonest, artificial, fake.

[runciter]

the concept of complete honesty is like the concept of perfection: it's artificial.

one ends up thinking "no one can be completely honest", and justifying his little lies.

[runciter]

Perhaps honesty is to. Remember, people are told not to lie by the bible!!! who benefits from that?

the liars.

[phildee3]

the concept of complete honesty is like the concept of perfection: it's artificial.



Not so.
Artificial = created, right?

Before anything is created there is perfection.

[novymir]

Not so.
Artificial = created, right?

Before anything is created there is perfection.

No, artificial= psuedo-creativity.

[runciter]

has anyone ever experienced perfection?

it is possible, but only for a limited amount of time.

then you have to return to this reality, so i'd say it's illusory.

[kasalt]

john is the less reliable of the evangelists imo, he pursued an "anti-gnostic" policy against thomas.

and i think "100% honest" is a meaningless concept, perfection is a human invention, it doesn't exist.

How do you feel about Luke?
Luke 16

1And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
2And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward.
3Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship: I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed.
4I am resolved what to do, that, when I am put out of the stewardship, they may receive me into their houses.
5So he called every one of his lord's debtors unto him, and said unto the first, How much owest thou unto my lord?
6And he said, An hundred measures of oil. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and sit down quickly, and write fifty.
7Then said he to another, And how much owest thou? And he said, An hundred measures of wheat. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and write fourscore.
8And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

[runciter]

i dunno, i must confess that i don't read the bible.

[runciter]

How do you feel about Luke?
Luke 16

1And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
2And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward.
3Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship: I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed.
4I am resolved what to do, that, when I am put out of the stewardship, they may receive me into their houses.
5So he called every one of his lord's debtors unto him, and said unto the first, How much owest thou unto my lord?
6And he said, An hundred measures of oil. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and sit down quickly, and write fifty.
7Then said he to another, And how much owest thou? And he said, An hundred measures of wheat. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and write fourscore.
8And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

the children of light are fools, from a materialistical point of view.

wise = cunning

[phildee3]

has anyone ever experienced perfection?

it is possible, but only for a limited amount of time.

then you have to return to this reality, so i'd say it's illusory.



So David Icke, many holy men through the ages, "The Matrix"
and modern quantum physics are all wrong when they say that "this reality" is the illusion?

[runciter]

So David Icke, many holy men through the ages, "The Matrix"
and modern quantum physics are all wrong when they say that "this reality" is the illusion?

this reality is under the spell of some unclean force.

[marpat]

Wrong. They don't 'prevent" anything. The "law" becomes involved after the fact. I don't need no government "protection", they're the biggest mass-murderers and oppressors in the history of the world. Keep on sleeping...

"Laws" are what the Matrix is built on. All "laws" are a product of the Matrix. The "problem-solvers" are the "problem-creators"(when you treat people like children or "defective, and download that program into their heads, what do you think is the likely outcome?). Laws serve no purpose, except to fool us into believing we are good-evil or defective, exploiting/manipulating our free-will in ways that results in many of us being the tools that validate/manifest that dualistic illusion.

A criminal gang is already running this world, they are not perfect, or in complete control, they are weak and afraid. Their only "strength" is deception and fearmongering, if they were strong they would not need to steal our energy, they would not need to decieve us. In Truth it is they/it that is limited by their own belief in "laws", and disconnection from the True Authority.
"Laws" are a mind-game of The Matrix. "Laws" are the result of "government"(and psuedo-authorities), and govern(control)-ment(e)(mind) translates into Mind control.

The matrix is nothing but a theory made popular because of the film. it amazes me that as soon as a film comes out with an alternate view on relaity people start using its language as it if were real.

Change laws to regulation or whatever the fact is that peoples lives require some form of structure. The only people who disagree are those who have done little with their lives and who plan to do little. Concentration and focus imply limitation.

[marpat]

Ever heard of conscience?


And conscience will moderate you life. Does it not tell you when to stop, therefore it is a form of control and egulation to prevent you going to far, etc.

You are a christian arent you? does that mean your ten commandments as given by Jesus are bollocks? are they not rules and regulations for good living?

[marpat]

according to your logic, not to mine: honesty is a tendency, not a "law".

so is dishonesty

[marpat]

Not so.
Artificial = created, right?

Before anything is created there is perfection.

You presume. Perfection is the result not the root. Something cannot be made perfect if it is not fisrt imperfect. Before creation there is only potential.

[phildee3]

You are a christian arent you? does that mean your ten commandments as given by Jesus are bollocks?



Jesus did not give the ten commandments -
that was Moses -
but yes, Jesus says they are bollocks (or words to that effect).



are they not rules and regulations for good living?



They are Jewish laws - for Jews,
who do not have Christ.

[phildee3]

Perfection is the result not the root. Something cannot be made perfect if it is not fisrt imperfect.



I say it's the other way around!



Before creation there is only potential.



...and potential is perfect.

[runciter]

so is dishonesty

and one can choose.

[ayomide]

I think it's better to be be brutally honest than tell someone an 'untruth' - it's best if people say things when they really have to and be to the point.

So if I look fat in the damn jeans - say you look fat damit! It starts small but ends big. So rather be truthful and get it out - the person you tell the truth to will really value your honesty no matter how much it hurt. I know I do but lucky I can spot a liar - it's simple - just smell him - his scent changes.

Lies hurt more - when you find out the truth.

Now can we please get back to hating the Zionists?

[phildee3]

...conscience will moderate you life. Does it not tell you when to stop, therefore it is a form of control and egulation to prevent you going to far, etc.





In all areas of life moderation and correct action is needed. To help this process along you need something to guide people, hence laws.



Externally dictated law can be (and invariably is) abused by tyrants.

Inner guidance (ie. conscience) can't be.

[tyler]

My guitarists are Israeli. They don't do any of those things, ergo, your post is incorrect. I can't abide by sweeping generalisations.

Get rid of your bloody guitarists! How can you work with such people? I have just now lost all respect for you. Do the right thing!
We must boycott these child killers at all levels!

[marpat]

Jesus did not give the ten commandments -
that was Moses -
but yes, Jesus says they are bollocks (or words to that effect).



They are Jewish laws - for Jews,
who do not have Christ.

Funny because he seems to give a slightly different version in the new testament.

Moses version of the first commandment: thou shalt have no gods before me

Jesus' version: though shalt love the lord thy god

[marpat]

Externally dictated law can be (and invariably is) abused by tyrants.

Inner guidance (ie. conscience) can't be.


I never said if it was external or internal.

Are you saying that nobody has ever done anything wrong by listening within? it is one thing to get inner advice but another to discern where it has come from.

[marpat]

I think it's better to be be brutally honest than tell someone an 'untruth' - it's best if people say things when they really have to and be to the point.

So if I look fat in the damn jeans - say you look fat damit! It starts small but ends big. So rather be truthful and get it out - the person you tell the truth to will really value your honesty no matter how much it hurt. I know I do but lucky I can spot a liar - it's simple - just smell him - his scent changes.

Lies hurt more - when you find out the truth.

Now can we please get back to hating the Zionists?

I thought the slogan in here was that infinite love is the only truth

[marpat]

I say it's the other way around!



...and potential is perfect.


And how can potential come after creation?

Potential-creation-perfection. How can that be reversed?

What you are talking about is the idea or potential for perfection.

[tyler]

To Armoured Amazon....I've just watched your video of you in the Cavern.

Don't give up the day job!

[ayomide]

I thought the slogan in here was that infinite love is the only truth

Well yes - but right now I am feeling rather narrow and I do not like a Zionist! So I'll love again when my energy is restored. I was being honest about how I feel.

[phildee3]

Moses version of the first commandment: thou shalt have no gods before me

Jesus' version: though shalt love the lord thy god



Very different, aren't they?

The first is exoteric. A law externally dictated, to be obeyed at the peril of external punishment.

The second is esoteric -
said by him who also said he had fulfilled the law so that we, if we become like him, shall automatically keep the old "laws" through conscience.

[phildee3]

I never said if it was external or internal.



True.
I just qualified it to avoid any misunderstanding.



Are you saying that nobody has ever done anything wrong by listening within? it is one thing to get inner advice but another to discern where it has come from.



This is what Christianity is all about.
If we totally accept him, and all he stood for, then we become Christlike
and there is only one place where it can come from and we will automatically do as he would, if we follow our conscience.

[phildee3]

And how can potential come after creation?



I didn't say that it does.

You said,
"Perfection is the result not the root. Something cannot be made perfect if it is not first imperfect."
I said,
"I think it's the other way round"
ie. Imperfection is the result not the root. Something cannot become imperfect if it is not fisrt perfect.

In other words "spoiled/corrupted/etc."



Potential-creation-perfection. How can that be reversed?



Perfect potential - imperfect creation.

[marpat]

Very different, aren't they?

The first is exoteric. A law externally dictated, to be obeyed at the peril of external punishment.

The second is esoteric -
said by him who also said he had fulfilled the law so that we, if we become like him, shall automatically keep the old "laws" through conscience.

No, exoteric means they are given in plain speak, esoteric means they have a hidden meaning.

Peril of punishment? does not even jesus talk about people being left out in the dark, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth? he still gives a punishment for not carrying out his commandments.

[marpat]

I didn't say that it does.

You said,
"Perfection is the result not the root. Something cannot be made perfect if it is not first imperfect."
I said,
"I think it's the other way round"
ie. Imperfection is the result not the root. Something cannot become imperfect if it is not fisrt perfect.

In other words "spoiled/corrupted/etc."



Perfect potential - imperfect creation.

So what you are saying is that gods creation is imperfect?

Something can begin as imperfect though and develop towards perfection. If a potential manifests an idea then that idea can evolve and develop. When it can develop no further then it has reached its perfected state. How many ideas (potential) begin as perfectly formed concepts? most start out with a seed idea then develop util they become fully formed and refined. What is true of the macrocosm is true of the microcosm.

[phildee3]

No, exoteric means they are given in plain speak, esoteric means they have a hidden meaning.

Peril of punishment? does not even jesus talk about people being left out in the dark, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth? he still gives a punishment for not carrying out his commandments.



You have no idea.

Forget it.

[thetonic]

The only real question is what 'God' were they chosen by ? Ive seen exactly what they were chosen to do, and its nothing nice to say the least... So which 'God' were they chosen by?...

You do the math

[novymir]

The matrix is nothing but a theory made popular because of the film. it amazes me that as soon as a film comes out with an alternate view on relaity people start using its language as it if were real.

Change laws to regulation or whatever the fact is that peoples lives require some form of structure. The only people who disagree are those who have done little with their lives and who plan to do little. Concentration and focus imply limitation.

I use the "Matrix" as a metaphor for truth, something others can understand easily (I could use the word "paradigm" too, but would have to add qualitative descriptors for clarity). I knew what it was long before I saw the film. I have not owned a tv for over 10 years, and I've watched about 4 Hollywood films in that time, my ideas and knowledge are not a product of the controlled media. That "alternate' view is alot older than the film, and I think you probably already know that, but you play dumb about it. Because you would like to propagate the idea that it's a Hollywood science-fiction, a joke, "delusional".

Speak for yourself, you don't represent anyone else.
Your little jab about who would "disagree" with your subjective opinion is meaningless. Supposing they are not aligned with your subjective opinion about what is worthwhile in this life, who the f-ck are you or anyone else to interfere and stick your nose into it and attempt to tell me/them how to live and judge me or anyone else who rejects any human "authority"?
Concentration and focus imply limitation does it? No, that's how one SEES what IS. Don't make me laugh. It is not synonymous with being narrow-minded or having tunnel-vision, nor does it imply that one never moves on to other pursuits or subjects. Quit trying to project your own limitations upon me, because I won't accept them.
Your Satanic inspiration shines through though, and you can take your "laws" and intimidational black-mail and stuff it.
What do I mean "black-mail", I'll tell you: "accept the "Patriot Act" and the rest, or else...", say the perpetrators of 9-11 and countless other atrocities.
I don't fear death, and I will bow down to no one. Come what may.

[stfd]

Oh whatever. Murder is murder, in ANY COUNTRY BY ANY PERSON.

Put two mothers side by side whose babies have been slain and you tell me which mother grieves hardest.

GTFO.



Exactly!



The problem is that you're an idiot if you think murder is okay as long as it's not Palestinians being killed. What about people being slain in other countries around the world? Fuck them, eh? Nothing to do with you so what do you care? WTF ever, people like you piss me off.

+1

[marpat]

I use the "Matrix" as a metaphor for truth, something others can understand easily (I could use the word "paradigm" too, but would have to add qualitative descriptors for clarity). I knew what it was long before I saw the film. I have not owned a tv for over 10 years, and I've watched about 4 Hollywood films in that time, my ideas and knowledge are not a product of the controlled media. That "alternate' view is alot older than the film, and I think you probably already know that, but you play dumb about it. Because you would like to propagate the idea that it's a Hollywood science-fiction, a joke, "delusional".

Speak for yourself, you don't represent anyone else.
Your little jab about who would "disagree" with your subjective opinion is meaningless. Supposing they are not aligned with your subjective opinion about what is worthwhile in this life, who the f-ck are you or anyone else to interfere and stick your nose into it and attempt to tell me/them how to live and judge me or anyone else who rejects any human "authority"?
Concentration and focus imply limitation does it? No, that's how one SEES what IS. Don't make me laugh. It is not synonymous with being narrow-minded or having tunnel-vision, nor does it imply that one never moves on to other pursuits or subjects. Quit trying to project your own limitations upon me, because I won't accept them.
Your Satanic inspiration shines through though, and you can take your "laws" and intimidational black-mail and stuff it.
What do I mean "black-mail", I'll tell you: "accept the "Patriot Act" and the rest, or else...", say the perpetrators of 9-11 and countless other atrocities.
I don't fear death, and I will bow down to no one. Come what may.


How dull. Concentration implies limitation. If you needed to concentrate on reading you would need to give up watching TV and going on the PC. If you cant see that then you are blind.

Satanic inspiration? in what context? in the book of Job Satan is merely Gods tester of souls.

For somebody who thinks my opinion is meaningless you have taken the time trouble to give a full, if pointless and uninformative, reply.

Bit anger showing through there? is that satan showing through you?

[stfd]

Perhaps honesty is to. Remember, people are told not to lie by the bible!!! who benefits from that?

People are not 'told' by the Bible not to lie.
They are told however that is innapropiate,to say the least, to lie.

Big difference, leaves room for choice,think before posting.

[zarah]

+1

Plus one what? She was attacking me baselessly like the judgemental, hypocritical arse she is.

[zarah]

People are not 'told' by the Bible not to lie.
They are told however that is innapropiate,to say the least, to lie.

Big difference, leaves room for choice,think before posting.

'Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour' is an indicator on what may be appropriate is it?

[marpat]

People are not 'told' by the Bible not to lie.
They are told however that is innapropiate,to say the least, to lie.

Big difference, leaves room for choice,think before posting.

Isnt it one of the commandments? I didnt think the commandments were a matter of choice

think before you post

[stfd]

Plus one what? She was attacking me baselessly like the judgemental, hypocritical arse she is.

Dude ... please try to understand...
All forms/kinds of killing are bad.
What i believe AA meant to say is that -in general- to kill people is an evil thing, and i believe we all agree on that.
I for one like your avatar; i would also like too live to see Palestine free as much as i would like to live to see a free world.

(in my opinion) People fail to properly differentiate between a Jew and a Zionist. NOT all zionists are jew , just as not all jews are zionists.
I believe this is a very important issue, i believe that those globalist dogs which we all despise, laugh their asses off seeing us fighting eachother -weakening eachother. And think about it THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT.

So please... lets no keep on doing this over and over and over and instead work together.

Thanks

[stfd]

Isnt it one of the commandments? I didnt think the commandments were a matter of choice

think before you post

As you seem as one who vehemently opposes any and all religious forms i doubt it would matter to you what my or any other's opinion was on the matter.

However--> the 10 Commandments ARE a matter of choice, as anything/everything else is. Our lives are based on the choices me make each day.Our choices then influence the lives of those that come after us and so on.

The Commandments were , yes, meant to be followed, but as you can obviously/hopefully see , some of us, many of use chose not to follow them; either partially or entirely, even if they meant it or not , knowing or not knowing.

cheers

[marpat]

As you seem as one who vehemently opposes any and all religious forms i doubt it would matter to you what my or any other's opinion was on the matter.

However--> the 10 Commandments ARE a matter of choice, as anything/everything else is. Our lives are based on the choices me make each day.Our choices then influence the lives of those that come after us and so on.

The Commandments were , yes, meant to be followed, but as you can obviously/hopefully see , some of us, many of use chose not to follow them; either partially or entirely, even if they meant it or not , knowing or not knowing.

cheers

They are not choices that is why they are called commandments. The only choice you have is to do it or ignore it.

I dont oppose religion. Whatever gave you that idea? I would be more opposed to materialism in fact.

[stfd]

They are not choices that is why they are called commandments. The only choice you have is to do it or ignore it.

I dont oppose religion. Whatever gave you that idea? I would be more opposed to materialism in fact.

They are choices, one either chooses to follow a certain teaching or not.
ChOiSE - key word.

[stfd]

choice*

[marpat]

choice*


Well if anything its a forced choice. Its like having a gun to your head and being told to do something or die. What are the bibles options? do what you are commanded or suffer severe consequences.

Can any choice that is given under threat be considered a choice or a manipulation?

[stfd]

Well if anything its a forced choice. Its like having a gun to your head and being told to do something or die. What are the bibles options? do what you are commanded or suffer severe consequences.

Can any choice that is given under threat be considered a choice or a manipulation?

Forced choice = order

What i meant was plain and simple -choice, which has nothing to do with the gun at your head.

[marpat]

Forced choice = order

What i meant was plain and simple -choice, which has nothing to do with the gun at your head.


But there is still the presence of a threat is there not? if you read the old testament look what happens to the Israelites when they disobey God. look in the new testament and you are threatened with hell if you do not follow the rules, which are all extensions of the basic ten commandments.

If they were not commandments then why did they not say that they are the 10 choices? because they are not.

[stfd]

But there is still the presence of a threat is there not? if you read the old testament look what happens to the Israelites when they disobey God. look in the new testament and you are threatened with hell if you do not follow the rules, which are all extensions of the basic ten commandments.

If they were not commandments then why did they not say that they are the 10 choices? because they are not.

ufff
Yes their is always a threat present, and it will be untill the end of times.However this threat has nothing to do with the Commandments.
That is , there isnt any gun to your head if you choose to do other that 'Commanded' in the Commandments.

Tell me off all the people you see every single day on your whereabouts in the world, how many of those who consistently don't keep the Commandments, you see punished or visibly pressured by an unseen force ?
Well none of them...

So where di you get the threat thing?
As for calling the 10 Commandments - the 10 Choices , you are free to do so,just as much as you are free to choose on anything and everything.
All that matters is for you to keep those Commandments.

[phildee3]

All that matters is for you to keep those [ten] Commandments.



Yeh, if you're Jewish.

[marpat]

Yeh, if you're Jewish.


Did not Jesus tell people to keep the commandments? I guess some people will say they are different ones. Either way there is a set of commandments.

[zarah]

Dude ... please try to understand...
All forms/kinds of killing are bad.
What i believe AA meant to say is that -in general- to kill people is an evil thing, and i believe we all agree on that.
I for one like your avatar; i would also like too live to see Palestine free as much as i would like to live to see a free world.

(in my opinion) People fail to properly differentiate between a Jew and a Zionist. NOT all zionists are jew , just as not all jews are zionists.
I believe this is a very important issue, i believe that those globalist dogs which we all despise, laugh their asses off seeing us fighting eachother -weakening eachother. And think about it THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT.

So please... lets no keep on doing this over and over and over and instead work together.

Thanks

Okay, if you're going to debate with me, I would suggest you read my posts in the correct context. I won't ever start any argument with a defense of my opinion and I'm not about to start now.

In the abstract I don't care if Israelis are Zionists, Rosicrucians, Catholics or Jews. I don't care whether Palestinians are Muslims, Protestants or wear blue roses at Easter. The point I was making to your fundamentalist friend and the point I'll make to you is this: It isn't enough to try to equal Israeli dead with Palestinian dead by attempting to humanise the issue. That might have worked in the past, when more people bought the whole 'Israel defense' story, but it just doesn't wash anymore. One Israeli was killed in the last 10 years by rockets for every 140 Palestinians. One Israeli was killed in the last ten years for every 30 Palestinian children. The time frame for the Palestinian deaths was 3 weeks.

90% of Palestinians in Gaza are refugees or the children of refugees. They live in a strip of land which is the most densely populated on earth, in appalling conditions which has been referred to by many notable human rights' agencies as a nothing better than a concentration camp. Palestinians have suffered from blockades which have reduced the amount of humanitarian aid from 250 to 45 trucks a day. The people still amount to some 1 1/2 million, less a couple of thousand a year, as a direct result of Israeli murder and many more thousands indirectly. Over 1.1. million of these poor souls are solely dependent on this aid.

80% of all Palestinians living in Gaza live in 'absolute poverty'. This means in comparison to all poverty stricken people in the world, of which we know there are millions, 80% of all Palestinians live in the more dire of conditions.

How dare you try to insult my intelligence with a self - righteous 'all Jews are not Zionist' argument which has absolutely nothing to do with the systematic genocide which is being perpetrated on Palestinians. How dare you suggest that we shouldn't be angry and that, rather than apologists as you and your fundamentalist friend appear to be, joining with us, we should all be joining in with your hand wringing and squeals of how un-anti semite you are. Who cares if such a nonsensical label is applied to anyone? A semite is someone from the area in which Israel now occupies, it isn't anything to do with Jews.

As Norman Finklestein so fantastically says, if Israelis don't want to be attacked, perhaps they should pack their bags and get off of the land which has been stolen on their behalf.

[novymir]

How dull. Concentration implies limitation. If you needed to concentrate on reading you would need to give up watching TV and going on the PC. If you cant see that then you are blind.

Satanic inspiration? in what context? in the book of Job Satan is merely Gods tester of souls.

For somebody who thinks my opinion is meaningless you have taken the time trouble to give a full, if pointless and uninformative, reply.

Bit anger showing through there? is that satan showing through you?

????
That'll be the day,,, that someone on the internet actually pisses me off... like, never.
Whatever, it seems we're on 2 different wavelengths that are so far apart as to make understandable communications impossible.
????

[stfd]

Okay, if you're going to debate with me, I would suggest you read my posts in the correct context. I won't ever start any argument with a defense of my opinion and I'm not about to start now.

In the abstract I don't care if Israelis are Zionists, Rosicrucians, Catholics or Jews. I don't care whether Palestinians are Muslims, Protestants or wear blue roses at Easter. The point I was making to your fundamentalist friend and the point I'll make to you is this: It isn't enough to try to equal Israeli dead with Palestinian dead by attempting to humanise the issue. That might have worked in the past, when more people bought the whole 'Israel defense' story, but it just doesn't wash anymore. One Israeli was killed in the last 10 years by rockets for every 140 Palestinians. One Israeli was killed in the last ten years for every 30 Palestinian children. The time frame for the Palestinian deaths was 3 weeks.

90% of Palestinians in Gaza are refugees or the children of refugees. They live in a strip of land which is the most densely populated on earth, in appalling conditions which has been referred to by many notable human rights' agencies as a nothing better than a concentration camp. Palestinians have suffered from blockades which have reduced the amount of humanitarian aid from 250 to 45 trucks a day. The people still amount to some 1 1/2 million, less a couple of thousand a year, as a direct result of Israeli murder and many more thousands indirectly. Over 1.1. million of these poor souls are solely dependent on this aid.

80% of all Palestinians living in Gaza live in 'absolute poverty'. This means in comparison to all poverty stricken people in the world, of which we know there are millions, 80% of all Palestinians live in the more dire of conditions.

How dare you try to insult my intelligence with a self - righteous 'all Jews are not Zionist' argument which has absolutely nothing to do with the systematic genocide which is being perpetrated on Palestinians. How dare you suggest that we shouldn't be angry and that, rather than apologists as you and your fundamentalist friend appear to be, joining with us, we should all be joining in with your hand wringing and squeals of how un-anti semite you are. Who cares if such a nonsensical label is applied to anyone? A semite is someone from the area in which Israel now occupies, it isn't anything to do with Jews.

As Norman Finklestein so fantastically says, if Israelis don't want to be attacked, perhaps they should pack their bags and get off of the land which has been stolen on their behalf.



"How dare you try to insult my intelligence with a self - righteous 'all Jews are not Zionist' argument which has absolutely nothing to do with the systematic genocide which is being perpetrated on Palestinians. How dare you suggest that we shouldn't be angry and that, rather than apologists as you and your fundamentalist friend appear to be, joining with us, we should all be joining in with your hand wringing and squeals of how un-anti semite you are. Who cares if such a nonsensical label is applied to anyone? A semite is someone from the area in which Israel now occupies, it isn't anything to do with Jews. "

First of all i did not insult anyone(yet) on this forum, i actually intend on keeping it so.

-The statement" Not all JEws are Zionists" does not make the G E N O C I D E perpetrated by the state of Israel less genocidal got it ?
A genocide is a genocide period.I have NEVER doubted it and the FACT that "Not all JEws are Zionists" only shouws that there still some sane people out there...

I have not taken offence in you calling me an antisemite,you dont know me,just as i dont know you. Please refrain from doing this in the future as it greatly clouds your ability to comprehend that which is perpetrated before our eyes EVERY FUCKIN' DAY !

Thanks

[stfd]

Yeh, if you're Jewish.

:D How are ya PhiL ?

[phildee3]

Did not Jesus tell people to keep the commandments? I guess some people will say they are different ones. Either way there is a set of commandments.



Nope.

Just one -
love one another.

[marpat]

Nope.

Just one -
love one another.


I think you forgot the one about loving god, the one before what you quoted. I thought you were a christian!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[phildee3]

I think you forgot the one about loving god,



You thought wrong.

To love one another is to love God.