My Take on the Planes - No Planes Debate Here

[darketernal]

As a moderator of this forum, I need to establish up front that this is my personal opinion and do not speak on behalf of David Icke or the mod team with what I am going to say in this thread.

Since becoming a moderator of this forum, I’ve learned quickly that there is one sub forum that is associated with in-fighting, childish and divisive behavior and people acting like the livestock my Illuminati mentors said they are. That forum is the 9/11 forum.

Those who have read my post and know my story know that I’m not a “truther” or a conspiracy theorist, or really even much of a conspiracy researcher. I’m not particularly interested in what theory some outside has come up with next. My concern is the past, present and future state of humanity. I’m a former CIA-asset, from an Illuminati line, who grew sick of taking orders one day, and survived a ritual trial of combat to be allowed to leave, as my station and genetics allowed me the right to.

How did I earn that right? As an assassin from a line of high priests and priestesses. However, I didn’t prey on you or yours for the most part. I was sent after members of other factions within the Illuminati, and those of special lines who tried to betray the brotherhood or who just needed to be eliminated, who’s own station and/or DNA required they only be taken down in a ritual manner.

This is because despite what so many on this forum and other conspiracy circles believe, humanity, in its conditioned and programmed state kill themselves and each other just fine. The illuminati do not need to kill you. They let you fight and kill each other and yourselves. They don’t need to hire full teams of disinformants to infiltrate conspiracy forums, when you will gladly do it yourselves every time someone comes up with an idea of theory different from your own.

Every day that people sit around accusing everyone else of being an agent of disinformation instead of banding together and loving your fellow human, and realizing you ALL are facing the same problem, those people are agents of disinformation, even if they are arguing on the side they absolutely know to be truth. It doesn’t mater if you are a planer or a no planer, if you believe in reptilians or a purely human conspiracy, if you believe society should be rebuilt from scratch or if older constitutions need to be reinstated in your respective nations. It doesn’t matter them if you are an American or an Israeli or an Iraqi, if you are black or white or brown… or even one of their own who walked away. They view every one of you as livestock, have no problem slitting your throats and bleeding you dry. You are all nothing more than a renewable resource to the powers that be, and have been for thousands of years. Stop acting like livestock, and disinformation agents, and start acting like mature human beings, who is on the same side of other human beings because our world depends on what choices we all make.

In the spirit of good faith, I will give my point of view on the use of planes.

Another mod asked me two days ago what I thought of the issue, and I normally do not answer because this is such a hot topic, but I hate to duck a direct question, so here was my reply:

“From what I have seen in my past, there is absolutely no reason to go through the trouble of using real planes. We have the technology to insert false radar images, create holographic planes, fake flight manifests, and fake black box data. The planes did not contribute to the collapse of the buildings. We clearly can see that at least two of the planes that crashed were NOT planes crashing. Using mind controlled piolets or remote to crash the planes into the towers themselves carried a risk of failure and adds a great deal more work and complexity... and thus involves more margin for error and more people involved. The simplest way to get the job done would have been through technology to fake it.

Now, if the ritual of the sacrifice required real planes then that could be an argument there... however from what I can see, the people in the towers were the sacrifice to the gods, as long as a high priest pressed the button that detonated the neutron devices that initiated the collapsed the buildings, and the thermite used on the core columns to complete the process... I am fairly certain they were in the clear. There is not need to insert a phallus (jet) into the equation because the male energy was already represented by the towers themselves.

I see it as the most likely scenario given the total sum of evidence I have seen in my own past and by what I saw on 9/11 day on the tv. Is it worth arguing about in a thread to me? No. No more than I want to try to argue with someone if the reptilians are real or not.”

That being said, do you know what? I don’t care if someone believes there were planes or no planes used. I am not a conspiracy researcher, and I am not trying to sell any books on the subject. I could give a rats ass less about providing you evidence of what I have seen in my life, or arguing with you over the facts you THINK you have found. Virtually everyone in this forum realizes through either intuition or by logic that the entire official story is bullshit. What point is there in turning on each other? “Oh I know it was a lie, but some other guy who knows it was a lie, thinks they pulled it off a little differently than I did… so I am going to fight him, get pissed off and angry at him and not even bother to try to show anyone else that they have been lied to.”

It is like two sheep fighting with each other over what breed of sheepdog is biting their heels.

Well I’m telling you, I don’t care if I think that sheep dog is a different breed than you do, let’s team up, stomp it till it runs off and make a run for the gate, and grab the rest of the herd on the way.

Case in point, a long term friend of mine, who is a pig-headed cop, saw Zeitgeist this week after he overheard I and another guy talking about the film, and halfway through it he stops and goes “Those sons of bitches are lying to us! Those murderers killed their own people. I am so fucking pissed! Oh my god… how did people like this get into power?”

It is that easy sometimes people.

[abaddon]

do you know what? I don’t care if someone believes there were planes or no planes used. I could give a rats ass less about providing you evidence of what I have seen in my life, or arguing with you over the facts you THINK you have found. Virtually everyone in this forum realizes through either intuition or by logic that the entire official story is bullshit. What point is there in turning on each other? “Oh I know it was a lie, but some other guy who knows it was a lie, thinks they pulled it off a little differently than I did… so I am going to fight him, get pissed off and angry at him and not even bother to try to show anyone else that they have been lied to.”


Thank You, I needed that. And totally agree.

Much appreciated :)

[comawhite015]

That's one of the best posts I've read on here for a bloody long time. Or ever.

[killtown]

Since becoming a moderator of this forum, I’ve learned quickly that there is one sub forum that is associated with in-fighting, childish and divisive behavior and people acting like the livestock my Illuminati mentors said they are. That forum is the 9/11 forum.

And the 9/11 forum can be fixed VERY EASILY. If you are interested in doing that, let me know and I can tell you how.

Btw, glad to see you've come to the "dark side" (i.e. no-planes ;) ).

[mynameis]

The simplest way to get the job done would have been through technology to fake it.

Technology ignores what many of the eyewitnesses like NYPD, NYFD, EMTs, Journalists in helicopters, ordinary folks taking photographs, and Eyewitnesses saw? Explain? Secondly, why do the steel bars in the outer wall bend inwards darketernal? Why are the steel bars broken at the weld points in the shape of a plane at the impact area The part about two sheep arguing about the breed of dog had me in stitches.

[bryan]

They let you fight and kill each other and yourselves. They don’t need to hire full teams of disinformants to infiltrate conspiracy forums, when you will gladly do it yourselves every time someone comes up with an idea of theory different from your own.

I don’t care if someone believes there were planes or no planes used.


It's not a case of a few people believing and a few other people not believing planes were used. The people who claim to believe planes were used are generally linked to the 9/11 truth "orthodoxy", while the people who don't believe planes were used are more likely to be "grass roots" members.

That means we're involved in a movement which has a fair proportion of members who believe no planes were used, but whose official line is that people who believe no planes were used are insane! Why won't the leadership at least admit there are doubts? There's something seriously wrong with this truth movement and keeping quiet ain't gonna put it right.

[john white]

It's not a case of a few people believing and a few other people not believing planes were used. The people who claim to believe planes were used are generally linked to the 9/11 truth "orthodoxy", while the people who don't believe planes were used are more likely to be "grass roots" members.

That means we're involved in a movement which has a fair proportion of members who believe no planes were used, but whose official line is that people who believe no planes were used are insane! Why won't the leadership at least admit there are doubts? There's something seriously wrong with this truth movement and keeping quiet ain't gonna put it right.

Your SUPPOSED to be leading yourself Bryan

And who writes the "official line" of the 9/11 Truth movement anyway?

Does that mean you want your POV to expand to the point where it becomes the "Official Line" for you to defend whilst accusing everyone else of defending "their" official line (the offical story), even when they dont?

I asked you if you have to be a No Planer to be a "proper" 9/11 Truther

You never answered

Time you did

And the 9/11 forum can be fixed VERY EASILY. If you are interested in doing that, let me know and I can tell you how.


Oh I just bet you could Killtown. I reckon I've got a fair idea what the hypocritical advice of the guy known to scream about censorship would be too. "Censor everyone but me and those who parrot what I put out, persecute the heretics who dare to doubt my integrity" (like Ace Baker, for example)

It's what your known for, least we forget

[darketernal]

Mynameis, I am not trying to convince you it is true. I am stating what I believe based on what I saw. I honestly don't care enough about 9/11 research to get that deep into it. What they saw? I've seen the level of holographic technology they have first hand, and for ME personally that proves that it very well could have faked a plane. Is this evidence? No, becuase it is undocumented, unprovable personal experience. However, that doesn't make it untrue.

Killtown, while I appreciate your offer, we have a set of guidelinesin place for how moderation is done. I, and other moderators are expected to be unbiased by our personal stance on the issues when it comes time to moderate. If we cannot, we are replaced.

In any event, going back to my own point, there is no benefit to us arguing these points. We can argue all day, but someone who does not have a high security clearance and a high amount of technical knowledge and experience with the technology at the disposal of the military at the highest level, won't have the exact physics behind how the buildings came down. However this is not important. The offical story of 9/11 is so flimsy that it doesn't take a great deal of effort to convince the averge person that something is very wrong here.

[john white]

Every day that people sit around accusing everyone else of being an agent of disinformation instead of banding together and loving your fellow human, and realizing you ALL are facing the same problem, those people are agents of disinformation, even if they are arguing on the side they absolutely know to be truth. It doesn’t mater if you are a planer or a no planer, if you believe in reptilians or a purely human conspiracy, if you believe society should be rebuilt from scratch or if older constitutions need to be reinstated in your respective nations. It doesn’t matter them if you are an American or an Israeli or an Iraqi, if you are black or white or brown… or even one of their own who walked away. They view every one of you as livestock, have no problem slitting your throats and bleeding you dry. You are all nothing more than a renewable resource to the powers that be, and have been for thousands of years. Stop acting like livestock, and disinformation agents, and start acting like mature human beings, who is on the same side of other human beings because our world depends on what choices we all make.

There's a great deal of truth in this. Most of the time that is what I do: certainly in my day-to-day life, which I always feel is what matters most, definitely more than being a "keyboard warrior"

But I would say the certainly ARE times when it is necessary to take a stand, to call lies lies, liars liars, and fools fools. To do so is to understand the shadow side of co-operation: unco-operation. And if we dont face the shadow, we are blinded by the light. Both are needed for the whole

It seems that 9/11 Truth, a public criminal investigation to get justice for the victims of truly unhuman psychopathic criminals, is the kind of topic where hustlers and snake oil salesman should be exposed, their frauds laid bare, and their victims encouraged to snap out of the trance. In that, it is an extension of seeking to bring those within the military industrial complex to judgement: for deception regarding 9/11 is an extension of the same crime

Would I put people like Killtown on trial for aiding and abetting the mass murders to evade justice if I could? You bet I would!

And I dont mind that he knows it, he should have no illusions that I am not under his illusions, and nothing annoys and frightens him more than people who see him for what he is

“From what I have seen in my past, there is absolutely no reason to go through the trouble of using real planes. We have the technology to insert false radar images, create holographic planes, fake flight manifests, and fake black box data. The planes did not contribute to the collapse of the buildings. We clearly can see that at least two of the planes that crashed were NOT planes crashing. Using mind controlled pilots or remote to crash the planes into the towers themselves carried a risk of failure and adds a great deal more work and complexity... and thus involves more margin for error and more people involved. The simplest way to get the job done would have been through technology to fake it.

Well, I know its not very popular to even mention it, but how did the Japanese get pilots to crash their fighter planes against the decks of US ships in WW2?

The possibility that willing suicidal hijackers could be found to execute 9/11 remains high: we cant verify it, no, it can always be questioned, but it cannot be dismissed, and it CAN be done. The people of the islamic world have certainly suffered more than enough in the last 100 years that those who have lost everything that mattered could be motivated by revenge to strike back. They are not to know that Al-Quada is in control of "the enemy", compartmentalisation ensures that

Also, remote control of aircraft is a well established technology, its been possible to remote pilot a jetliner for over 40 years

Exactly what level of risk is there with a technology so well established?

What technology was used to create the impact holes if they are not impact holes?

What about the need to completely control every single image or have the whole "TV fakery" agenda exposed?

How is it that in the 8 years since 9/11 not a single image of the plane impacts has not been entirely consistent with every other image, no matter the angle, distance, type of camera used etc etc?

"Risk of failure" is not a coherant argument to use either for or against NPT

Because it requires the willingness to take huge risks to execute 9/11 at all

It is far less risky to DO it, for it to be seen to be done, than to not do it and be shown to have not done it. "they", as you should well know if what you say about your background is true, show us what is there to be shown far far more than present falsehoods: it is what we don't see they deceive us over (almost all of the time). That is why the pentagon and shanskville are documented so badly: in both cases the evidence suggests the official explanation is unlikely to be true: because there is an absence of presented evidence to support that story: although, to be cautious, even an absence of evidence does not mean the evidence is not there

But with regard to the twin towers, we have an orgy of evidence all pointing to planes, and only claims about the same evidence insisting there were not

Also, how does it not "involve more people" to fake the entire record of the event and disseminate those fakes swiftly and efficiently across the media of the entire planet that to pull off the event itself? so again, your objection there makes little realistic sense

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/2707/wtccrashlro3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

So are you REALLY satisfied that this image and the many others like it are all, without any exception fake?

No doubts at all? complete confidence it is impossible that any of the evidence is anything else than forgery?

If so: by all means say so

But, in the name of that humanity you evoke in your opening post so passionately, if you are not satisfied about that, you are either seeking to pull my chain over this issue, or subconsciously pulling your own

I'll leave you to consider that

[darketernal]

It's not a case of a few people believing and a few other people not believing planes were used. The people who claim to believe planes were used are generally linked to the 9/11 truth "orthodoxy", while the people who don't believe planes were used are more likely to be "grass roots" members.

That means we're involved in a movement which has a fair proportion of members who believe no planes were used, but whose official line is that people who believe no planes were used are insane! Why won't the leadership at least admit there are doubts? There's something seriously wrong with this truth movement and keeping quiet ain't gonna put it right.

Bryan, I agree the truth movement has its own problems. As for the leadership at this forum in particular making a statement, they are all free to state their personal beliefs on the issue, but to my knowledge the David Icke forum does not have an offical stance on this issue. I have a personal one, and it is that to me the probably that no planes were used is higher.

As for the truth movement as a whole making a statement, well I don't know the leadership of the truth movement, and cannot speak to their motives for not addressing this issue.

[crowd control]

I think the most important point about the planes versus no planes argument is the implications.

i.e not just a rouge handful of military.

Establishing the complicity of the media, and the extent of the big lie.

It is a revelation which can snap the most jaded into wakening, and as such it's importance cannot be underestimated.

Arguments over it on here are unavoidable, it's an emotive subject, we've all got strong feelings on it.

I for one apologise unreservedly to anyone I've had heated words with over it John, mynameis, bryan etc

It's important that we stand as one.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aCxIbCNLqvQ

[darketernal]

There's a great deal of truth in this. Most of the time that is what I do: certainly in my day-to-day life, which I always feel is what matters most, definitely more than being a "keyboard warrior"

But I would say the certainly ARE times when it is necessary to take a stand, to call lies lies, liars liars, and fools fools. To do so is to understand the shadow side of co-operation: unco-operation. And if we dont face the shadow, we are blinded by the light. Both are needed for the whole

It seems that 9/11 Truth, a public criminal investigation to get justice for the victims of truly unhuman psychopathic criminals, is the kind of topic where hustlers and snake oil salesman should be exposed, their frauds laid bare, and their victims encouraged to snap out of the trance. In that, it is an extension of seeking to bring those within the military industrial complex to judgement: for deception regarding 9/11 is an extension of the same crime

Would I put people like Killtown on trial for aiding and abetting the mass murders to evade justice if I could? You bet I would!

And I dont mind that he knows it, he should have no illusions that I am not under his illusions, and nothing annoys and frightens him more than people who see him for what he is



Well, I know its not very popular to even mention it, but how did the Japanese get pilots to crash their fighter planes against the decks of US ships in WW2?

The possibility that willing suicidal hijackers could be found to execute 9/11 remains high: we cant verify it, no, it can always be questioned, but it cannot be dismissed, and it CAN be done. The people of the islamic world have certainly suffered more than enough in the last 100 years that those who have lost everything that mattered could be motivated by revenge to strike back. They are not to know that Al-Quada is in control of "the enemy", compartmentalisation ensures that

Also, remote control of aircraft is a well established technology, its been possible to remote pilot a jetliner for over 40 years

Exactly what level of risk is there with a technology so well established?

What technology was used to create the impact holes if they are not impact holes?

What about the need to completely control every single image or have the whole "TV fakery" agenda exposed?

How is it that in the 8 years since 9/11 not a single image of the plane impacts has not been entirely consistent with every other image, no matter the angle, distance, type of camera used etc etc?

"Risk of failure" is not a coherant argument to use either for or against NPT

Because it requires the willingness to take huge risks to execute 9/11 at all

It is far less risky to DO it, for it to be seen to be done, than to not do it and be shown to have not done it. "they", as you should well know if what you say about your background is true, show us what is there to be shown: that is why the pentagon and shanskville are documented so badly: in both cases the evidence suggests the official explanation is unlikely to be true: because there is an absence of presented evidence: although, to be cautious, even an absence of evidence does not mean the evidence is not there

But with regard to the twin towers, we have an orgy of evidence all pointing to planes, and only claims about the same evidence insisting there were not

Also, how does it not "involve more people" to fake the entire record of the event that to pull off the event itself? so again, your objection there makes little realistic sense

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/2707/wtccrashlro3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

So are you REALLY satisfied that this image and the many others like it are all, without any exception fake?

no doubts at all? complete confidence it is impossible that any of the evidence is anything else than forgery?

If so: by all means say so

But, in the name of that humanity you evoke in your opening post so passionately, if you are not satisfied about that, you are either seeking to pull my chain over this issue, or subconsciously pulling your own

I'll leave you to consider that

John it is fine with me if you want to believe there were planes used. When I have talked to people offline about 9/11 I don't try to convince them there were no planes used, because I can't prove it to them.

As for their motives, oh there are a great many mind control subjects who could be trained for just this purpose, but it has a margin for error. These people do not like margins for error. They are obsessed with controling all sides of a conflict, all possible outcomes, all probabilities. For them, every outcome must be carefully controled from start to finish. This is a religious matter for them.

When it comes down to it, even if it takes a bit more work on their part, they will always opt for the option that yeild the most certainty of giving the desired outcome. Yes real planes could have been used. However this was a golden opportunity to play test their toys, on the American people. They have the capability to create flawless holographic planes, to use high tech explosives to fake the entry points, and I would suggest they used it. This wargame exercise was some general's high tech toy wet dream

Again, it comes down to understanding how the people who run your world think. Once this is understood, you can predict them.

[john white]

John it is fine with me if you want to believe there were planes used

I should of course, hope so. and I dont mind people wanting to believe planes were not used. I do object to those deliberately trying to mislead others though, as I made clear above.

When I have talked to people offline about 9/11 I don't try to convince them there were no planes used, because I can't prove it to them.

We all relate to that problem I'm sure

As for their motives, oh there are a great many mind control subjects who could be trained for just this purpose, but it has a margin for error. These people do not like margins for error. They are obsessed with controling all sides of a conflict, all possible outcomes, all probabilities. For them, every outcome must be carefully controled from start to finish. This is a religious matter for them.

OK, lets take that on board. I have a degree of scepticism however that this matches with the POV you put across in the next paragraph

When it comes down to it, even if it takes a bit more work on their part, they will always opt for the option that yeild the most certainty of giving the desired outcome. Yes real planes could have been used. However this was a golden opportunity to play test their toys, on the American people.

Do control freaks really relish the chance to play with their new toys? Wouldnt control freaks be more likely to play with long time tried and tested toys?

They have the capability to create flawless holographic planes

I have yet to see any explanation for how this could be done using any known priniciples, as far as creating flawless holographic jets in daytime lighting conditions. Natural lighting would seriously compromise any holographic effect. What projection abilities we can confirm all depend on night conditions. And that then brings the sonic difficulties into consideration too

to use high tech explosives to fake the entry points and I would suggest they used it. This wargame exercise was some general's high tech toy wet dream

That the explosive used to bring down the towers were the best available, I do not doubt, but I do not understand what sort of explosives could blow girders inwards if they were not placed on the outside of the building, nor how a plane shaped outline of them could have been placed there unobserved

Again, it comes down to understanding how the people who run your world think. Once this is understood, you can predict them.

Our world, surely? And it occurs to me that this belief in the certainty of predictability is more illusionary than we might like to think. Easy to cultivate, and therefore more cover for when "they" go the other way

Be that as it may, all I can ask you to do is look at your own reasoning in this matter, as you can ask me to look at mine. But perhaps we can agree that one aspect of the reason you feel you cannot convince others of NPT is the actual evidence isn't good enough, even if your feelings and experiences of the state of mind displayed by the "elite" makes you feel it may be true

However, if the evidence isn't good enough, it does mean you are in the position of equating the truth of the matter with your assumptions

[john white]

I think the most important point about the planes versus no planes argument is the implications.

i.e not just a rouge handful of military.

Establishing the complicity of the media, and the extent of the big lie.

It is a revelation which can snap the most jaded into wakening, and as such it's importance cannot be underestimated.

Arguments over it on here are unavoidable, it's an emotive subject, we've all got strong feelings on it.

I for one apologise unreservedly to anyone I've had heated words with over it John, mynameis, bryan etc

It's important that we stand as one.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aCxIbCNLqvQ

I know you really mean that, so I want you to know I really appreciate it

[crowd control]

It's all good John, fuck it, it's time to form a circle.

Maybe we can all make a start by dropping the shill acuusation and personal shite and just debate the evidence objectivley with patience, understanding and comradery.

Maybe that is being too hopefull, but what have we if not hope.



...... if the slaves were to see how many strong they stood, they could revolt

[gribz]

I think the opening post makes a strong point. The fact is those who are awake on the topic and know 9/11 was a fix should all be focusing on debunking the official version as it is bollocks, rather than coming up with our own stories which we cant prove (Or prove could be the wrong word) - we cant convince the masses due to 1) brainwashed already and 2) we cant spread the word.

Regardless whether the opening poster is trying a bit of psychology or not ;) the main point is spot on - we shouldnt argue with each other.

My take on the plane issue stands that it was not commerical planes full stop. I dont know if it was cargo / military planes or missile or if it was holograms. But again the openin post is correct - why go to the bother of using a real scenario when there is a huge chance of failuer.

However if it was holograms id have expected better pictures of the jets and actually seeing a AA logo, but the plane still looks like a grey military / cargo plane to me - real or not.

Id be interested to hear darketernal's view on the Pentagon :)

[darketernal]

Id be interested to hear darketernal's view on the Pentagon :)

I've seen to footage and the news on 9/11... you will never convince me or anyone with basic reasoning skills that a jetliner crashed into the Pentagon. I classify it as one that we KNOW was not a plane.

Now, we can debate all day long over if you think it was a missle, a fighter jet, explosives, some kind of lazer from a satellite all day long. I have no idea what was used, nor is it of great enough interest to me to investigate, but it clearly was not a large jet. No, I have never done any investigation on this subject. I'm not big on conspiracy research.

[kamakazi]

I think the most important point about the planes versus no planes argument is the implications.

i.e not just a rouge handful of military.

Establishing the complicity of the media, and the extent of the big lie.

It is a revelation which can snap the most jaded into wakening, and as such it's importance cannot be underestimated.

Arguments over it on here are unavoidable, it's an emotive subject, we've all got strong feelings on it.


well said

[mynameis]

Mynameis, I am not trying to convince you it is true. I am stating what I believe based on what I saw. I honestly don't care enough about 9/11 research to get that deep into it. What they saw? I've seen the level of holographic technology they have first hand, and for ME personally that proves that it very well could have faked a plane. Is this evidence? No, becuase it is undocumented, unprovable personal experience. However, that doesn't make it untrue.

I get u now. If it what is claimed as probable is not even probable yet scientifically, you are in the camp of who knows what the military industrial complex has or lies about so there could be unheard of military hardware etc...Well if there is unknown military hardware, I believe they've built Gundams and Veritch fighters...:D

[gribz]

I've seen to footage and the news on 9/11... you will never convince me or anyone with basic reasoning skills that a jetliner crashed into the Pentagon. I classify it as one that we KNOW was not a plane.

Now, we can debate all day long over if you think it was a missle, a fighter jet, explosives, some kind of lazer from a satellite all day long. I have no idea what was used, nor is it of great enough interest to me to investigate, but it clearly was not a large jet. No, I have never done any investigation on this subject. I'm not big on conspiracy research.

Again your right, it wasnt a plane - full stop! There is evidence which points to this and the official story is once again too easy to debunk. This ranges from the fact it was a impossible manouver to the fact that any aircraft over the pentagon gets shot down after 1 minute unless it makes itself known.

Its then all about opinion as to what really hit/exploded.

For me the Pentagon is by far the most obvious false flag on 9/11 - no way was a real plane used.

But it is so difficult to get the real word out when the Discovery Channel are putting nonsense out on tv stating that there is only 1 piece of footage which is from the gate house that was released. Those who dont do research then dont know that the security camera from the Sheraton hotel and car park were taken away within minutes of it happening.

[crowd control]

I get u now. If it what is claimed as probable is not even probable yet scientifically, you are in the camp of who knows what the military industrial complex has or lies about so there could be unheard of military hardware etc...Well if there is unknown military hardware, I believe they've built Gundams and Veritch fighters...:D


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AfqDVP_0O0c

:D

[darketernal]

I get u now. If it what is claimed as probable is not even probable yet scientifically, you are in the camp of who knows what the military industrial complex has or lies about so there could be unheard of military hardware etc...Well if there is unknown military hardware, I believe they've built Gundams and Veritch fighters...:D

I've not seen those. I had to look up the terms you just used did you mean "veritech"? I've only seen this type of thing on television.

They do have holographic technology that is decades more advanced that what is in the private sector, and they've had zero point energy for at least 65 years within the US military.

The greater majority of UFO sitings in North and South America were "Made in the USA". The one's in Europe, are manufactured in Germany, Italy and Russia.

This is the problem. We are trying to make arguments about technology and discuss what can and can't be used because it sounds credible to the average person, when the gap between the technology the majority think we have, verses what we do have is so massive, that the truth has no credibility.

I do not have answers for you to this problem. We all have to do what we feel is right as individuals on this.

[crowd control]

Just to take a slight detour for a second.

Darketernal, did you just admit (on a public forum) to murdering people!

Dude?

[darketernal]

Just to take a slight detour for a second.

Darketernal, did you just admit (on a public forum) to murdering people!

Dude?

What? I admitted no such thing. There is absolutely no physical evidence that would tie me in to something like that. To even try to charge me with such a lie would require declassification of documents that will never be declassified, thus do not exist. I do not exist. Good luck in proving otherwise.

[crowd control]

Woah, hold your horses dude, I'm not trying to charge you with anything. I'm just referring to the part in your original post which refers to you being an assasin.

I’m a former CIA-asset, from an Illuminati line, who grew sick of taking orders one day, and survived a ritual trial of combat to be allowed to leave, as my station and genetics allowed me the right to.

How did I earn that right? As an assassin from a line of high priests and priestesses. However, I didn’t prey on you or yours for the most part. I was sent after members of other factions within the Illuminati, and those of special lines who tried to betray the brotherhood or who just needed to be eliminated, who’s own station and/or DNA required they only be taken down in a ritual manner.

.

[darketernal]

Woah, hold your horses dude, I'm not trying to charge you with anything. I'm just referring to the part in your original post which refers to you being an assasin.

LoL yes I know. I was simply making the point that it is offical policy that our government does not employ private assassins, especially to use against its own citizens. Such information making it into the media or a courtroom is so tabboo and offlimits that it doesn't matter how many come forward, such things will never go to a court, nor would any evidence be allowed into a courtroom.

Our courts do not exist for the purpose of justice.

[konnster]

This is probably the best post I have read, thank you dark eternal.

my best.

[crowd control]

Is there a hint of irony about a murderer moderating a forum asking people to behave and be nice to each other?

or am I missing something, I feel as though I have walked into the twilight zone and need a translator.

[darketernal]

Is there a hint of irony about a murderer moderating a forum asking people to behave and be nice to each other?

or am I missing something, I feel as though I have walked into the twilight zone and need a translator.

Perhaps. I was DID at the time, and technically was never given a choice in the matter. It was a purpose I was bred and raised for.

In any event, who's side would you rather me be on? In any event, I would say that we find ourselves intertwined in the same cause becuase I'm working towards correcting an imbalance of energies that has been artificially maintained, and assisting in freeing humanity is essential to achieving my goals.

My concern is development of the whole, that includes not only you, but those you perhaps see as enemies as well.

[crowd control]

Perhaps. I was DID at the time, and technically was never given a choice in the matter. It was a purpose I was bred and raised for.

In any event, who's side would you rather me be on? In any event, I would say that we find ourselves intertwined in the same cause becuase I'm working towards correcting an imbalance of energies that has been artificially maintained, and assisting in freeing humanity is essential to achieving my goals.

My concern is development of the whole, that includes not only you, but those you perhaps see as enemies as well.


Jesus titty fucking Christ

Steep learning curve man, points taken on board, I'm just blown away by that info tbh. Forget/forgive my instant remarks, I'm beginnig to understand you a bit better, where you are coming from and connecting the dots.

Blown away. :eek:

[gutcassidy]

This is the problem. We are trying to make arguments about technology and discuss what can and can't be used because it sounds credible to the average person, when the gap between the technology the majority think we have, verses what we do have is so massive, that the truth has no credibility.

There is really little chance of the masses knowing the specifics of a technology that can turn a 110 storey building into this:

http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/DEW/dewpics/Image313.jpg

The bulk of the rubble hardly reaches the height of the lobby roof level or the pedestrian walkway that used to connect to the complex. Where did that building go?

http://www.parrhesia.com/wtc/wtc017.jpg

You can see the rubble on the right. It's quite underwhelming.



Good thread darketernal. The OP was an eye opening read.

[konnster]

If anyone here has an understanding of the conspiracy you would understand what Dark Eternal is talking about. And I DONT mean that in a molesting way towards people who are saying he is a murderer. Either way I dont care, what he is saying is the truth.

[crowd control]

:eek:

Murderer comment made prior to DID knowledge.

Comment is retracted.

[qasrose]

As a moderator of this forum, I need to establish up front that this is my personal opinion and do not speak on behalf of David Icke or the mod team with what I am going to say in this thread.

Since becoming a moderator of this forum, I’ve learned quickly that there is one sub forum that is associated with in-fighting, childish and divisive behavior and people acting like the livestock my Illuminati mentors said they are. That forum is the 9/11 forum.

Those who have read my post and know my story know that I’m not a “truther” or a conspiracy theorist, or really even much of a conspiracy researcher. I’m not particularly interested in what theory some outside has come up with next. My concern is the past, present and future state of humanity. I’m a former CIA-asset, from an Illuminati line, who grew sick of taking orders one day, and survived a ritual trial of combat to be allowed to leave, as my station and genetics allowed me the right to.

How did I earn that right? As an assassin from a line of high priests and priestesses. However, I didn’t prey on you or yours for the most part. I was sent after members of other factions within the Illuminati, and those of special lines who tried to betray the brotherhood or who just needed to be eliminated, who’s own station and/or DNA required they only be taken down in a ritual manner.

This is because despite what so many on this forum and other conspiracy circles believe, humanity, in its conditioned and programmed state kill themselves and each other just fine. The illuminati do not need to kill you. They let you fight and kill each other and yourselves. They don’t need to hire full teams of disinformants to infiltrate conspiracy forums, when you will gladly do it yourselves every time someone comes up with an idea of theory different from your own.

Every day that people sit around accusing everyone else of being an agent of disinformation instead of banding together and loving your fellow human, and realizing you ALL are facing the same problem, those people are agents of disinformation, even if they are arguing on the side they absolutely know to be truth. It doesn’t mater if you are a planer or a no planer, if you believe in reptilians or a purely human conspiracy, if you believe society should be rebuilt from scratch or if older constitutions need to be reinstated in your respective nations. It doesn’t matter them if you are an American or an Israeli or an Iraqi, if you are black or white or brown… or even one of their own who walked away. They view every one of you as livestock, have no problem slitting your throats and bleeding you dry. You are all nothing more than a renewable resource to the powers that be, and have been for thousands of years. Stop acting like livestock, and disinformation agents, and start acting like mature human beings, who is on the same side of other human beings because our world depends on what choices we all make.

In the spirit of good faith, I will give my point of view on the use of planes.

Another mod asked me two days ago what I thought of the issue, and I normally do not answer because this is such a hot topic, but I hate to duck a direct question, so here was my reply:

“From what I have seen in my past, there is absolutely no reason to go through the trouble of using real planes. We have the technology to insert false radar images, create holographic planes, fake flight manifests, and fake black box data. The planes did not contribute to the collapse of the buildings. We clearly can see that at least two of the planes that crashed were NOT planes crashing. Using mind controlled piolets or remote to crash the planes into the towers themselves carried a risk of failure and adds a great deal more work and complexity... and thus involves more margin for error and more people involved. The simplest way to get the job done would have been through technology to fake it.

Now, if the ritual of the sacrifice required real planes then that could be an argument there... however from what I can see, the people in the towers were the sacrifice to the gods, as long as a high priest pressed the button that detonated the neutron devices that initiated the collapsed the buildings, and the thermite used on the core columns to complete the process... I am fairly certain they were in the clear. There is not need to insert a phallus (jet) into the equation because the male energy was already represented by the towers themselves.

I see it as the most likely scenario given the total sum of evidence I have seen in my own past and by what I saw on 9/11 day on the tv. Is it worth arguing about in a thread to me? No. No more than I want to try to argue with someone if the reptilians are real or not.”

That being said, do you know what? I don’t care if someone believes there were planes or no planes used. I am not a conspiracy researcher, and I am not trying to sell any books on the subject. I could give a rats ass less about providing you evidence of what I have seen in my life, or arguing with you over the facts you THINK you have found. Virtually everyone in this forum realizes through either intuition or by logic that the entire official story is bullshit. What point is there in turning on each other? “Oh I know it was a lie, but some other guy who knows it was a lie, thinks they pulled it off a little differently than I did… so I am going to fight him, get pissed off and angry at him and not even bother to try to show anyone else that they have been lied to.”

It is like two sheep fighting with each other over what breed of sheepdog is biting their heels.

Well I’m telling you, I don’t care if I think that sheep dog is a different breed than you do, let’s team up, stomp it till it runs off and make a run for the gate, and grab the rest of the herd on the way.

Case in point, a long term friend of mine, who is a pig-headed cop, saw Zeitgeist this week after he overheard I and another guy talking about the film, and halfway through it he stops and goes “Those sons of bitches are lying to us! Those murderers killed their own people. I am so fucking pissed! Oh my god… how did people like this get into power?”

It is that easy sometimes people.

Stop acting like Agents??

After not posting on her for about a year since you left to join the staff, you seem to come on and agree with the no plane theory.

Those that seek trouble and derail topics are No Planers. Because
they can not argue with the fact that Planes hit the buildings.

Keep telling your self it was CGI, keep telling your self it was faked.
Keep telling your self their where no planes. But remember one thing
This is not the movies, this is REAL LIFE... Accept the true nature
that a plane did smash into the World Trade Center. Calling the witnesses
who seen the planes dis information and agents is disrespectful.

And did it ever get in your minds that the reason some media said missile first was because they where not sure what it was that hit. After all they were not paying attention at the towers and the plane was going to fast.

Their for it got mistaken for a missile.

I must stress and say that this is my own opinion.

[strt]

I thought you guy's where not allowed to post in this section????

I can confirm that we can and always could. Mods are alowed to have opinion and participate of course. Is there something special about this section or you mean that we should not post anywhere?

[qasrose]

I can confirm that we can and always could. Mods are alowed to have opinion and participate of course. Is there something special about this section or you mean that we should not post anywhere?

Well from when I was a you know what I got told to stay out of this forum
Because I supported the plane theory, wow I guess if you support the No Plane Theory then it makes Mr Icke look good no offense. :eek:

[strt]

Well from when I was a you know what I got told to stay out of this forum
Because I supported the plane theory, wow I guess if you support the No Plane Theory then it makes Mr Icke look good no offense. :eek:

Just for the record, I don't support and could not care less if this or that theory proves as correct at the end. It was ritual sacrifice, can be proved as such without need to get into details how it happened, full stop. I only participated here before because I feel that it is tragic what kind of energy some of you spend proving that this or that theory is the only truth.

[bryan]

Your SUPPOSED to be leading yourself Bryan

And who writes the "official line" of the 9/11 Truth movement anyway?


I use the term "leaders" for want of a better word for the people who are the public face of what's been described as a "loose network of campaigners". I'm talking about people like Alex Jones, David Ray Griffin, Steven E Jones, Loose Change, Annie Machon, Ian Neal, Ian Henshall, William Rodriguez etc. These are the people who give talks, publish books, organize conferences, run forums, talk to the press and appear on the James Whale show. They are the de-facto writers of the "official line" of the 9/11 Truth movement. It disturbs me that they are actively and knowingly withholding evidence.



Does that mean you want your POV to expand to the point where it becomes the "Official Line" for you to defend whilst accusing everyone else of defending "their" official line (the offical story), even when they dont?

I asked you if you have to be a No Planer to be a "proper" 9/11 Truther

You never answered

Time you did


A proper 9/11 truther should accept that there's enough evidence of faked planes to warrant a serious and open debate on the issue.



Well, I know its not very popular to even mention it, but how did the Japanese get pilots to crash their fighter planes against the decks of US ships in WW2?


Is this another example of your "evidence-based research"?



The possibility that willing suicidal hijackers could be found to execute 9/11 remains high: we cant verify it, no, it can always be questioned, but it cannot be dismissed, and it CAN be done. The people of the islamic world have certainly suffered more than enough in the last 100 years that those who have lost everything that mattered could be motivated by revenge to strike back.


I heard George Galloway might be getting the sack. You'd sail through the interview. ;)

[qasrose]

A proper 9/11 truther should accept that there's enough evidence of faked planes to warrant a serious and open debate on the issue.

Show this evidence? and do not post video clips or screen caps
from that poorly edited and brainwashing September Clues.

That video doesn't count as Evidence.

A proper 9/11 truther will never accept the fact
Because their is NO EVIDENCE.

A serious debate on this issue will never be taken
seriously enough, and their are always going to be
no planers arguing in their own thread. As it's their job
to brainwash US plane believers. But it doesn't work.
(and this has been done before, look back at some older threads, from that one LIAR, who I will not mention)

And John White makes some very good points :)

[darketernal]

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/2707/wtccrashlro3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

So are you REALLY satisfied that this image and the many others like it are all, without any exception fake?

No doubts at all? complete confidence it is impossible that any of the evidence is anything else than forgery?

If so: by all means say so

But, in the name of that humanity you evoke in your opening post so passionately, if you are not satisfied about that, you are either seeking to pull my chain over this issue, or subconsciously pulling your own

I'll leave you to consider that

Sorry, John, I missed this bit when I was reading over the thread earlier. I'll ty to answer what you asked to the best of my ability. Am I absolutely certain that there were no planes used? No I am not certain beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Do I know we have the technology to fake those photographs and trick eyewitnesses with holograms decands ahead of anything in the mainstream? Yes I know this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

The question that remains in my mind is, did they use this technology in this insidious act. I see it as the more likey of scenarios.

This is of course why I avoid conspiracy theory/research as a general rule. I can't help but notice that conspiracy researchers happily put up both their facts and theories, why then can't a former inside come forward and say "I don't follow this area of research, but given my background knowledge on other subjects that tie into this, I have a theory."? It is my personal feeling that given my own background, my theories concerning how the Illuminati/NWO/Reptilains/The Brotherhood or other groups which I had intimate ties with, might have gone about doing something, based on my observations of their patterns, rituals, rules, beliefs and mindsets, are just as valid as mosts conspiracy researchers. Especially given that in my experience most conspiracy researchers are working off incomplete, or incorrect data, of false premises concerning the ties, motives, technologies and structure of the organizations and agendas they are researching.

That being said, not everyone who has a different spin on a scenario is automatically "working against you" or a "paid disinformation agent". The amazing trick pulled on the truth movement is how surprisingly few actual disinformation agents, not how many, are needed to get any emerging truth movement to implode in upon itself. Stop doing the work of the PTB for them.

It is not my concern if you or anyone else believes planes were used or not. What is important is that we see it is an inside job, and let other people know the same, so that it can be known exactally what kind of people are controling their world, and leading them down a path they need to stop and take a second look at before blinding following the lead of their masters.

The reason I bring up the possibility of no planes at all is because there will come a point in time, where this "truth movement" is going to have to tackle the technology issues, and needs to be aware of what tricks the PTB just might pull out of their hat on the people if we continue down this path. If you remain convinced that the technology level that our governments possess is fairly close to what we see on the news, you are going to be in for a bit of a shocker when we back them into a corner.



Qasrose, brother, you know I have never been anything but kind, honest and respectful to you, and deep down you know I am trying to help you, your future children and everyone on this planet, even if you do not agree with my methods.

[qasrose]

Do I know we have the technology to fake those photographs and trick eyewitnesses with holograms decands ahead of anything in the mainstream? Yes I know this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Qasrose, brother, you know I have never been anything but kind, honest and respectful to you, and deep down you know I am trying to help you, your future children and everyone on this planet, even if you do not agree with my methods.

You are right we do have the technology to fake photographs.
But the use of hologram on that date I seriously doubt it.

Who says I need help? As long as I can walk on my own two feet
then I don't need anyone helping me along the way.

That being said I respected you for being kind to me. But that's all I respect.

And now that a Moderator has spoken his mind, does this mean we all need to STOP!. And agree????.

Nope I am not arguing or insulting a moderator here, I am just sharing my own opinion which I believe counts just like everyone else on this thread.

anyway back on subject.

Everyone that was in New York that day seen planes, the media captured plane 2 hitting the towers.
In almost every image shown on the net, shows planes striking the towers.

I will never believe the no plane theory, because again it's not Hollywood it's real life.

[narcolepticwatchman]

Everyone that was in New York that day seen planes,

No they didn't.

[qasrose]

No they didn't.

A simple response without proof...

[narcolepticwatchman]

A simple response without proof...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QiNt7YFKyvU&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wDUEBJ6B4y8

[bryan]

A simple response without proof...

100 yards from South Tower, plane passed over his head and he never noticed!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9lmMZQFRzFY

[narcolepticwatchman]

A simple response without proof...
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MuFVj6lv9m0

pting

[januspolanski]

It is not my concern if you or anyone else believes planes were used or not. What is important is that we see it is an inside job, and let other people know the same, so that it can be known exactally what kind of people are controling their world, and leading them down a path they need to stop and take a second look at before blinding following the lead of their masters.

The reason I bring up the possibility of no planes at all is because there will come a point in time, where this "truth movement" is going to have to tackle the technology issues, and needs to be aware of what tricks the PTB just might pull out of their hat on the people if we continue down this path. If you remain convinced that the technology level that our governments possess is fairly close to what we see on the news, you are going to be in for a bit of a shocker when we back them into a corner.

+1

Couple of questions Dark Eternal.

What exactly was involved in your ritual trial of combat when you wanted out of the Illuminati?


you are going to be in for a bit of a shocker when we back them into a corner.


Can you be more specific? What exactly are they going to do when enough people realise the truth about 911?

If you were the leader of the 911 truth movement what would you do to get people to realise the truth about 911?

[john white]

Sorry, John, I missed this bit when I was reading over the thread earlier. I'll ty to answer what you asked to the best of my ability. Am I absolutely certain that there were no planes used? No I am not certain beyond a shadow of a doubt.

So we can establish you consider it a possibility that no planes were used, but not a definite fact? Ok, taken on board

Do I know we have the technology to fake those photographs and trick eyewitnesses with holograms decands ahead of anything in the mainstream? Yes I know this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I'll accept your statement for what it is. In return, I assume you would not expect anyone to defer to your judgement without more information

Can you give any insight into how a technology that can produce fully convincing daylight holograms might operate?

The question that remains in my mind is, did they use this technology in this insidious act. I see it as the more likey of scenarios.

If we, for the purpose of debate, take on the possibility that such technology exists, that in itself is not evidence that it was used

What tell-tales might indicate the use of such technology?


This is of course why I avoid conspiracy theory/research as a general rule. I can't help but notice that conspiracy researchers happily put up both their facts and theories, why then can't a former inside come forward and say "I don't follow this area of research, but given my background knowledge on other subjects that tie into this, I have a theory."?

No reason at all, of course you can

It is my personal feeling that given my own background, my theories concerning how the Illuminati/NWO/Reptilains/The Brotherhood or other groups which I had intimate ties with, might have gone about doing something, based on my observations of their patterns, rituals, rules, beliefs and mindsets, are just as valid as mosts conspiracy researchers.

One could indulge in a small amount of cynicism about some "researchers" output and say at least as valid. Obviously you know that making a statement that you are a former insider is quite a statement to make. If you were presenting yourself AS a conspiracy researcher on that basis (as others have, Bill Deagle springs to mind, also Phil Schneider) I'm sure you would expect a strong degree of questioning about that and be prepared to establish credibility. I dont see the need to grill you over it as a forum member though, I simply put that on "the back burner" (my question seeking additional information above not counting, in my view, as "grilling")

Especially given that in my experience most conspiracy researchers are working off incomplete, or incorrect data, of false premises concerning the ties, motives, technologies and structure of the organizations and agendas they are researching.

Wherever our perspective is based, there is always another perceptive. Given the problems that "outsiders" have exposing the world of the "insiders". incomplete information is a given, it could hardly be otherwise. But I am also mindful that just because some of the "Elite" think a particular thing (assuming their thought patterns can be accurately perceived with "incomplete" information) does not show that POV to be true: merely what they believe. I see no special advantage the elite have not to be just as generally deluded as the rest of us regarding reality simply because they have a horde of secrets

That being said, not everyone who has a different spin on a scenario is automatically "working against you" or a "paid disinformation agent"

Indeed. Do let others know

The amazing trick pulled on the truth movement is how surprisingly few actual disinformation agents, not how many, are needed to get any emerging truth movement to implode in upon itself. Stop doing the work of the PTB for them.

I dont fall into the trap of thinking all "disinformationalists" are "working for them": but a liar is a liar, a manipulator is a manipulator, and a plotter is a plotter. Nothing wrong with calling such things what they are when they can be seen to be so. I totally agree people do not need to me "insiders" to lie plot and mislead: all sorts of human weaknesses create such behaviours

My position is that, just as that can be understood, that does not make it OK

And of course, an insider can be candid, truthful, integral and honest

Regrettably, working from "incomplete information" it is not easy to discern which is which

It is not my concern if you or anyone else believes planes were used or not

Agreed and reciprocated, save the purpose of choosing to engage in debate via making a post or other form of conversation: a definative free will choice that invites response, whilst carrying no obligation to reply


What is important is that we see it is an inside job, and let other people know the same, so that it can be known exactally what kind of people are controling their world, and leading them down a path they need to stop and take a second look at before blinding following the lead of their masters.

Would you be able to let Killtown, BS REgistration, Webfairy, Wood, Fetzer, Johnson, Baker et al know this, in such a way as they would modify their behaviour? It would be a tremendous help:)

The reason I bring up the possibility of no planes at all is because there will come a point in time, where this "truth movement" is going to have to tackle the technology issues, and needs to be aware of what tricks the PTB just might pull out of their hat on the people if we continue down this path

Many things are possible. Many things are unknown unless there is a manifestation in reality that can be concretely related to. However, it is also clear many things have been possible for a fair number of decades and have not occurred. therefore there remains a strong possibility they will continue not to occur, whislt remaining possible

If you remain convinced that the technology level that our governments possess is fairly close to what we see on the news, you are going to be in for a bit of a shocker when we back them into a corner

I do not see objections to NPT being based on naive ignorance: rather objections are based on the observation that NPT is founded on naive belief, and in fact represents a floaty disconnectedness from what is known to have occured and can be shown to have occured equal to any New Age UFO channeling group waiting to be rescued by Ashtar Command

Just because a thing is possible, and just because one is open to those possibilities, does not mean one should rashly exchange truth for belief

Qasrose, brother, you know I have never been anything but kind, honest and respectful to you, and deep down you know I am trying to help you, your future children and everyone on this planet, even if you do not agree with my methods.

I wouldn't mean to speak for Qasrose, but if you addressed this to me I would respond that to make good on this intention would appear to place the burden on yourself to be very candidly forthcoming, with "the real goods" so to speak, or create the appearance of being somewhat nebulous, even condescending, containing as it does the inference that Qasrose could not say the same for his free will actions. It is good to be open to a proportion of humility to recall we are all here to assist each other, whether the genetic lottery of birth and social lottery of circumstance has landed one on the "inside" or not

[beldazar]

As a moderator of this forum, I need to establish up front that this is my personal opinion and do not speak on behalf of David Icke or the mod team with what I am going to say in this thread.

Since becoming a moderator of this forum, I’ve learned quickly that there is one sub forum that is associated with in-fighting, childish and divisive behavior and people acting like the livestock my Illuminati mentors said they are. That forum is the 9/11 forum.

Those who have read my post and know my story know that I’m not a “truther” or a conspiracy theorist, or really even much of a conspiracy researcher. I’m not particularly interested in what theory some outside has come up with next. My concern is the past, present and future state of humanity. I’m a former CIA-asset, from an Illuminati line, who grew sick of taking orders one day, and survived a ritual trial of combat to be allowed to leave, as my station and genetics allowed me the right to.

How did I earn that right? As an assassin from a line of high priests and priestesses. However, I didn’t prey on you or yours for the most part. I was sent after members of other factions within the Illuminati, and those of special lines who tried to betray the brotherhood or who just needed to be eliminated, who’s own station and/or DNA required they only be taken down in a ritual manner.

This is because despite what so many on this forum and other conspiracy circles believe, humanity, in its conditioned and programmed state kill themselves and each other just fine. The illuminati do not need to kill you. They let you fight and kill each other and yourselves. They don’t need to hire full teams of disinformants to infiltrate conspiracy forums, when you will gladly do it yourselves every time someone comes up with an idea of theory different from your own.

Every day that people sit around accusing everyone else of being an agent of disinformation instead of banding together and loving your fellow human, and realizing you ALL are facing the same problem, those people are agents of disinformation, even if they are arguing on the side they absolutely know to be truth. It doesn’t mater if you are a planer or a no planer, if you believe in reptilians or a purely human conspiracy, if you believe society should be rebuilt from scratch or if older constitutions need to be reinstated in your respective nations. It doesn’t matter them if you are an American or an Israeli or an Iraqi, if you are black or white or brown… or even one of their own who walked away. They view every one of you as livestock, have no problem slitting your throats and bleeding you dry. You are all nothing more than a renewable resource to the powers that be, and have been for thousands of years. Stop acting like livestock, and disinformation agents, and start acting like mature human beings, who is on the same side of other human beings because our world depends on what choices we all make.

In the spirit of good faith, I will give my point of view on the use of planes.

Another mod asked me two days ago what I thought of the issue, and I normally do not answer because this is such a hot topic, but I hate to duck a direct question, so here was my reply:

“From what I have seen in my past, there is absolutely no reason to go through the trouble of using real planes. We have the technology to insert false radar images, create holographic planes, fake flight manifests, and fake black box data. The planes did not contribute to the collapse of the buildings. We clearly can see that at least two of the planes that crashed were NOT planes crashing. Using mind controlled piolets or remote to crash the planes into the towers themselves carried a risk of failure and adds a great deal more work and complexity... and thus involves more margin for error and more people involved. The simplest way to get the job done would have been through technology to fake it.

Now, if the ritual of the sacrifice required real planes then that could be an argument there... however from what I can see, the people in the towers were the sacrifice to the gods, as long as a high priest pressed the button that detonated the neutron devices that initiated the collapsed the buildings, and the thermite used on the core columns to complete the process... I am fairly certain they were in the clear. There is not need to insert a phallus (jet) into the equation because the male energy was already represented by the towers themselves.

I see it as the most likely scenario given the total sum of evidence I have seen in my own past and by what I saw on 9/11 day on the tv. Is it worth arguing about in a thread to me? No. No more than I want to try to argue with someone if the reptilians are real or not.”

That being said, do you know what? I don’t care if someone believes there were planes or no planes used. I am not a conspiracy researcher, and I am not trying to sell any books on the subject. I could give a rats ass less about providing you evidence of what I have seen in my life, or arguing with you over the facts you THINK you have found. Virtually everyone in this forum realizes through either intuition or by logic that the entire official story is bullshit. What point is there in turning on each other? “Oh I know it was a lie, but some other guy who knows it was a lie, thinks they pulled it off a little differently than I did… so I am going to fight him, get pissed off and angry at him and not even bother to try to show anyone else that they have been lied to.”

It is like two sheep fighting with each other over what breed of sheepdog is biting their heels.

Well I’m telling you, I don’t care if I think that sheep dog is a different breed than you do, let’s team up, stomp it till it runs off and make a run for the gate, and grab the rest of the herd on the way.

Case in point, a long term friend of mine, who is a pig-headed cop, saw Zeitgeist this week after he overheard I and another guy talking about the film, and halfway through it he stops and goes “Those sons of bitches are lying to us! Those murderers killed their own people. I am so fucking pissed! Oh my god… how did people like this get into power?”

It is that easy sometimes people.

Excellent! Thankyou. This post would apply to the whole forum, not just 911

[darketernal]

+1

Couple of questions Dark Eternal.

What exactly was involved in your ritual trial of combat when you wanted out of the Illuminati?

It is not something I really wish to relive right now with the details, but normally I would have just been killed, however my particular station and genetics always gives me a right to combat to prove my right to live any time that right is challenged, and it must be carried out by someone with the appropriate genetics to have the right of sacrifice. In short it is a death match/duel.

Can you be more specific? What exactly are they going to do when enough people realise the truth about 911?

If you were the leader of the 911 truth movement what would you do to get people to realise the truth about 911?

I don't know what they are going to do exactally. However I do know that what people should be aware that they have the ability to fake a lot of things. This project bluebeam theory I have heard proposed on this forum is one example. This is not a time period to believe what your eyes see.

If I were leader? I would step down. Haven't you people learned anything? Stop turning to those of my family lines for leadership. You let us lead every revolution and movement through history, and it always gets twisted to the long term advantage of the powers that be. Stop looking to leaders period. My advice would be keep it simple. Humanity as a whole has been dumbed down via their genetic and social programing, and their higher consciousness is being suppressed. You have to use the same tools the PTB use, and keep your propaganda simple, or the brainwashed masses won't get it. I think this will change over time. More and more people are, on their own, starting to see that something is very wrong with their world.

[darketernal]

John, I don't have any major arguments against anything you said, but would like to clarify a couple of points. One being that Qasrose and I have a friendly history, some of which is private information which doesn't belong out of the forum. I would have addressed you differently because I do not know you other than having read a number of your posts.

And this:


I do not see objections to NPT being based on naive ignorance: rather objections are based on the observation that NPT is founded on naive belief, and in fact represents a floaty disconnectedness from what is known to have occured and can be shown to have occured equal to any New Age UFO channeling group waiting to be rescued by Ashtar Command



I'll be brutally honest here, and this always opens me up to attack, but the New Age UFO channeling is as much a major psyop program and bloodline front as the creation of Christianity, Judaism and Islam were. It was the hijacking and seizing of control of an emerging true spirituality, which they sought, to shut down immediately and replace with a system of their own design, just as in the previous religions mentioned.

There is no Ashtar Command, or Jesus coming to help anyone. These are ideas implanted to keep the masses docile. Aliens are not coming to save anyone. Humanity must save itself, or it does not have the right to be saved.

[john white]

John, I don't have any major arguments against anything you said, but would like to clarify a couple of points. One being that Qasrose and I have a friendly history, some of which is private information which doesn't belong out of the forum. I would have addressed you differently because I do not know you other than having read a number of your posts.

And this:

I do not see objections to NPT being based on naive ignorance: rather objections are based on the observation that NPT is founded on naive belief, and in fact represents a floaty disconnectedness from what is known to have occured and can be shown to have occured equal to any New Age UFO channeling group waiting to be rescued by Ashtar Command

I'll be brutally honest here, and this always opens me up to attack, but the New Age UFO channeling is as much a major psyop program and bloodline front as the creation of Christianity, Judaism and Islam were. It was the hijacking and seizing of control of an emerging true spirituality, which they sought, to shut down immediately and replace with a system of their own design, just as in the previous religions mentioned.

There is no Ashtar Command, or Jesus coming to help anyone. These are ideas implanted to keep the masses docile. Aliens are not coming to save anyone. Humanity must save itself, or it does not have the right to be saved.

Well it may well open you to attack, but there you are in good company, posting on the web forum of the man who made the statement "new age old age same bollocks"

Your identifying the New Age as a major brotherhood psyops (lucis trust, hardly subtle) is of course wryly interesting to me given I have made the connection in terms of level of consciousness regarding acceptance of NPT. whilst one lacks the insider information to prove NPT is a psyop's operation, it certainly feels like it might be one, even though it may not be

But before we leave this thread, I really would appreciate you telling us what has lead you to state you know this holographic technology exists

Let us assume you do not know technically how this technology works, as you have not brought forth that kind of information, can you tell us if you have witnessed it in operation, and if so in what circumstance, or if you have been told about it by a source, in which case can you outline why you found that source credible?

[darketernal]

Well it may well open you to attack, but there you are in good company, posting on the web forum of the man who made the statement "new age old age same bollocks"

Your identifying the New Age as a major brotherhood psyops (lucis trust, hardly subtle) is of course wryly interesting to me given I have made the connection in terms of level of consciousness regarding acceptance of NPT. whilst one lacks the insider information to prove NPT is a psyop's operation, it certainly feels like it might be one, even though it may not be

But before we leave this thread, I really would appreciate you telling us what has lead you to state you know this holographic technology exists

Let us assume you do not know technically how this technology works, as you have not brought forth that kind of information, can you tell us if you have witnessed it in operation, and if so in what circumstance, or if you have been told about it by a source, in which case can you outline why you found that source credible?

I've seen detailed, flawless holograms of people, as well as crafts, and seen entire rooms filled with realistic holographic details all during my training in my teens. This was 15+ years ago, so I will assume the technology has improved with time.

I've seen entire facilities powered by zero point energy, as well as man-made craft powered by their own ZPM's that work off non-conventional propulsion systems.

No, I am not an engineer or tech, so I do not have a working practical knowledge behind any of this technology.

All of my work inside classified projects was psyop or training/imprinting related. I was sent as on-loan by the "Illuminati" (again just a word that many on the inside do not even use) priests part time for these projects. The military officers I assisted did not like me particularly, and didn't really want me near some of the technology, because of lack of trust.

[secondsun]

From what I have seen in my past, there is absolutely no reason to go through the trouble of using real planes. We have the technology to insert false radar images, create holographic planes, fake flight manifests, and fake black box data. The planes did not contribute to the collapse of the buildings. We clearly can see that at least two of the planes that crashed were NOT planes crashing. Using mind controlled piolets or remote to crash the planes into the towers themselves carried a risk of failure and adds a great deal more work and complexity... and thus involves more margin for error and more people involved. The simplest way to get the job done would have been through technology to fake it.

The simplest way to get the job done would have been through technology to fake it

...so i would like to ask our Illuminati Assassin why they did`nt knock up some footage of a plane going into the Pentagon and some footage of flight 93 nose diving into Shanks`!?!... seeing as it was so simple and `They` like to keep us `docile`!

...if i get chatting to someone in a pub i often tell `em i`m in the S.A.S.!

...am i the only one on here that has a problem with a `Illuminati Assassin` as a mod` on a supposed `Truther` site????????????

...be careful what you say in future post`s and avoid Polonium laced Sushi!

[qasrose]

...so i would like to ask our Illuminati Assassin why they did`nt knock up some footage of a plane going into the Pentagon and some footage of flight 93 nose diving into Shanks`!?!... seeing as it was so simple and `They` like to keep us `docile`!

...if i get chatting to someone in a pub i often tell `em i`m in the S.A.S.!

...am i the only one on here that has a problem with a `Illuminati Assassin` as a mod` on a supposed `Truther` site????????????

...be careful what you say in future post`s and avoid Polonium laced Sushi!

No mate I'm with you

[secondsun]

No mate I'm with you

...i thought you was a friend of his!?... you an Illuminati Assassin too or just retired?

[qasrose]

...i thought you was a friend of his!?... you an Illuminati Assassin too or just retired?

Nope I'm not an IA. We where friends for a while yes.
Until he joined the darkside of the DI Moderation....

[secondsun]

Until he joined the darkside of the DI Moderation....

...i sometimes wonder if DI is really working for the Darkside too!?

[qasrose]

...i sometimes wonder if DI is really working for the Darkside too!?

I sometimes say the same thing about Alex Jones..

[secondsun]

I sometimes say the same thing about Alex Jones..

...and me!... but then i think Rense might be also!?.... and what just worried me more is i just watched the latest DI video cast and he quotes the pair of them!... coincidence maybe!?!

...as they say on the X-Files... trust no one!... and in this neck of the woods.... you cant!

[qasrose]

...and me!... but then i think Rense might be also!?.... and what just worried me more is i just watched the latest DI video cast and he quotes the pair of them!... coincidence maybe!?!

...as they say on the X-Files... trust no one!... and in this neck of the woods.... you cant!

Very true, I only trust one person, and that's Me...

I mean using holograms on 9/11 LOL....

Yes holograms exist but I strongly doubt they where used on 9/11...

I don't know which is funnier No Planes or Holograms....

[secondsun]

I don't know which is funnier No Planes or Holograms....

...but you have probably noticed these merchants never go into the same detailed obsessive passion of telling us how they faked the holes in the the side of the buildings too!

[limelady]

...so i would like to ask our Illuminati Assassin why they did`nt knock up some footage of a plane going into the Pentagon and some footage of flight 93 nose diving into Shanks`!?!... seeing as it was so simple and `They` like to keep us `docile`!

...if i get chatting to someone in a pub i often tell `em i`m in the S.A.S.!

...am i the only one on here that has a problem with a `Illuminati Assassin` as a mod` on a supposed `Truther` site????????????

...be careful what you say in future post`s and avoid Polonium laced Sushi!

Well actually, its BECAUSE we believe in the truth on this forum David Icke has provided for us that we accept sincere and credible people as moderators. darketernal has shown he is prepared to open his past for the scrutiny of all, and though private conversations with him and posts he has made on this forum, he has been more open than most, despite a certain level of danger in disclosing the sorts of things to us he has disclosed about his past.

In case you haven't been keeping up, because of his bloodline, darketernal was for years a victim of heavy mind-control (since a very young child when he was placed in the service of the Illuminati controller by members of his own family), and since breaking out of his programming and escaping his handlers, he has earned the right to be a free man.

However, like many other mind slaves who have escaped the system they were forced to be apart of, the life he lived as their property under their control weighs very heavily on him, and he wants to give something back to the world and help others who have been trapped in similar circumstances.

So please, try to find the heart to be non-judgemental towards others who have opened their souls for us.....at least until you have walked a mile in their shoes!

[beldazar]

Some of the posts on this thread are really depressing, how come there are such spiteful people on here? Doesnt hold out much hope for us hey? :(

[krakhead]

Nope I'm not an IA. We where friends for a while yes.
Until he joined the darkside of the DI Moderation....

:rolleyes:

[boots]

Some of the posts on this thread are really depressing, how come there are such spiteful people on here? Doesnt hold out much hope for us hey? :(


Yes it is getting that way beldazar. Some have got to open their hearts a bit more to what was before.:( before pride cometh before a fall.

.

[christophera]

Very true, I only trust one person, and that's Me...

I mean using holograms on 9/11 LOL....

Yes holograms exist but I strongly doubt they where used on 9/11...

I don't know which is funnier No Planes or Holograms....

Right on! L o L ! Hey, the holodeck is coming,

http://www.youtube.com/v/-k5nt541SE0&hl=en&fs=1t

not ready for anything like 9-11 though.

[christophera]

There is really little chance of the masses knowing the specifics of a technology that can turn a 110 storey building into this:

http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/DEW/dewpics/Image313.jpg

Actually they can, they just have to know the true design and construction. Then, the simple fact that concrete can be instantly fractured to fall freely by a small amount of high explosives that are properly placed and distributed. In the process, everything is ground up by the aggregates at high velocities. Super fine particles are created, that are also very hot with maximized pressures from engineered containment of detonation.


The bulk of the rubble hardly reaches the height of the lobby roof level or the pedestrian walkway that used to connect to the complex. Where did that building go?

http://www.parrhesia.com/wtc/wtc017.jpg

You can see the rubble on the right. It's quite underwhelming.

Shock and awe, infiltrated United States government, domestic version.

[qasrose]

Right on! L o L ! Hey, the holodeck is coming,

http://www.youtube.com/v/-k5nt541SE0&hl=en&fs=1t

not ready for anything like 9-11 though.

Thanks chris for sharing that video.

It looked very real too me, But if this was used oni 9/11
where was the projection coming from for this Hologram, Space?

[cluas]

Thank You DE .... Great OP :)

[i_am]

This thread was about finding a common ground. Finding what you agree on rather than what you don't and what you have trashed this entire forum with, now including this thread.

The egos in here are so big that every attempt to question who and why ends up in a pissing contest going over the same ground that has been gone over in every thread. TPTB must be laughing their tits off. If it wasn't so pathetic, it would be funny.

The usual suspects are going round in circles while no one else is brave enough to give an opinion or ask a question for fear of the schoolyard bullies.

Well done guys :mad:

[qasrose]

This thread was about finding a common ground. Finding what you agree on rather than what you don't and what you have trashed this entire forum with, now including this thread.

The egos in here are so big that every attempt to question who and why ends up in a pissing contest going over the same ground that has been gone over in every thread. TPTB must be laughing their tits off. If it wasn't so pathetic, it would be funny.

The usual suspects are going round in circles while no one else is brave enough to give an opinion or ask a question for fear of the schoolyard bullies.

Well done guys :mad:

wow, wow, and oh wow..... and another thing Your Welcome.......

Excuse me, if anyone has an Ego problem it's you!!.. I doubt we've trashed this forum
and this thread, So what you want us to get down on our hands and knees, and Believe
in the No Plane Theory for everyone elses sake, and Mr Ickes. I'm not doing that No Way....

[john white]

I've seen detailed, flawless holograms of people, as well as crafts, and seen entire rooms filled with realistic holographic details all during my training in my teens. This was 15+ years ago, so I will assume the technology has improved with time.

I've seen entire facilities powered by zero point energy, as well as man-made craft powered by their own ZPM's that work off non-conventional propulsion systems.

No, I am not an engineer or tech, so I do not have a working practical knowledge behind any of this technology.

All of my work inside classified projects was psyop or training/imprinting related. I was sent as on-loan by the "Illuminati" (again just a word that many on the inside do not even use) priests part time for these projects. The military officers I assisted did not like me particularly, and didn't really want me near some of the technology, because of lack of trust.

Thanks, that at least gives some context to how it is you claim to know such technology exists, its clearly a claim you have personally seen it. I would place that above a claim of being told about it.

Right now, I have no inclination to believe or dis-believe it, and in itself it does not constitute proof such technology was used on 9/11, as we have already established

Perhaps at some future point you might provide detailed information about that time of your life, including as much as possible as could be verified "from the outside", but I understand from your opening post you aren't actually setting out to do that here

So thankyou for the statement you have given

[john white]

This thread was about finding a common ground. Finding what you agree on rather than what you don't and what you have trashed this entire forum with, now including this thread.

The egos in here are so big that every attempt to question who and why ends up in a pissing contest going over the same ground that has been gone over in every thread. TPTB must be laughing their tits off. If it wasn't so pathetic, it would be funny.

The usual suspects are going round in circles while no one else is brave enough to give an opinion or ask a question for fear of the schoolyard bullies.

Well done guys :mad:

I think you need to read the thread again. You've obviously been reading another one

[i_am]

I think you need to read the thread again. You've obviously been reading another one

I have read it all John and you have come up with some worthwhile discussion not just posting the same old arguments and going over the same territory.

from the OP

That being said, do you know what? I don’t care if someone believes there were planes or no planes used. I am not a conspiracy researcher, and I am not trying to sell any books on the subject. I could give a rats ass less about providing you evidence of what I have seen in my life, or arguing with you over the facts you THINK you have found. Virtually everyone in this forum realizes through either intuition or by logic that the entire official story is bullshit. What point is there in turning on each other? “Oh I know it was a lie, but some other guy who knows it was a lie, thinks they pulled it off a little differently than I did… so I am going to fight him, get pissed off and angry at him and not even bother to try to show anyone else that they have been lied to.”

Somewhere along the line it just turned into yet another planers VS no planers thread and insult those who disagree.

[christophera]

I think you need to read the thread again. You've obviously been reading another one

Our perceptions are in the control of our unconscious mind. It, ...... simply gives some kind of a copy to the conscious and a set of parameters for the concious to use in attempts to describe what the copy shows it. Suddenly, I think there is a beautiful ghost dancing here,

Kate Moss hologram - YouTube

But I see the technology needed for projection, but if my unconscious was told to NOT see it, at a time when the conscious was not there for logical, critical cognition, I might believe I had seen a beautiful ghost.

NPT is not about planes, it is not about 9-11, it is about video editing and special effects, or perception AND OR beliefs, and this thread is WAY better than any NPT thread because it talks about what NPT really is, besides disinfo of the psyops.

[bryan]

I have read it all John and you have come up with some worthwhile discussion not just posting the same old arguments and going over the same territory.

It was obvious from the OP that it was meant to be a meta-discussion of the planes vs no planes debate, not a place to post evidence for one side or the other.


Somewhere along the line it just turned into yet another planers VS no planers thread and insult those who disagree.


Post No 5, to be exact:

Technology ignores what many of the eyewitnesses like NYPD, NYFD, EMTs, Journalists in helicopters, ordinary folks taking photographs, and Eyewitnesses saw? Explain? Secondly, why do the steel bars in the outer wall bend inwards darketernal? Why are the steel bars broken at the weld points in the shape of a plane at the impact area The part about two sheep arguing about the breed of dog had me in stitches.

[mynameis]

It was obvious from the OP that it was meant to be a meta-discussion of the planes vs no planes debate, not a place to post evidence for one side or the other.



Post No 5, to be exact:

Oh? I did not insult anyone, yet here's bryan trying to throw accusations. Mirror Mirror.....

[limelady]

Oh? I did not insult anyone, yet here's bryan trying to throw accusations. Mirror Mirror.....

No, you must have misunderstood. Bryan wasn't saying you insulted anyone, he was merely pointing out that YOUR post is the one that took this thread off-topic in response to i_am's post.....which you have done again. :)

This thread was not started to debate planes/no planes as has been pointed out already, so back on track please. :)

[crowd control]

Next person to argue about planes vs no planes is a fucking SPLITTER! :D

http://forbiddenplanet.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/Sue%20Jones-Davies%20Life%20of%20Brian.jpg

[mynameis]

This is the problem. We are trying to make arguments about technology and discuss what can and can't be used because it sounds credible to the average person, when the gap between the technology the majority think we have, verses what we do have is so massive, that the truth has no credibility.

I do not have answers for you to this problem. We all have to do what we feel is right as individuals on this.

Yes or no? Do you feel that debating no planes is a sidetrack diversion when you do not have answers to this problem?

If 911 is a sidetracking diversion, and you say that the truth has no credibility, then why carry on further discussions at all based on the actual facts and evidence we have on 9/11?

We have those responsible: Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, Able Danger, Able Warrior, P-Tech & Promis, Radar Phantoms, Military Readiness Drills, and the handlers , and Silverstein's fingerprints perhaps even the Bush family as patsies, which all lead one to a specific conclusion, inside job; Do you agree?

Now on these conditions making a case for a trial is moot if sidetracking diversions all have no credibility. It's like me saying your opening statement has no credibility either and neither does anyone doing research into 9/11.

What kind of conclusion does this make?

Those who don't prepare, prepare to fail. If no evidence is credible, then you suggest that by: learning, studying, and getting answers which are not credible; we are preparing to fail, yet again.

I do not accept these statements as being truthful nor disingenuous. I find that if there are arguments against any knowledge or the lack thereof, when we are naturally building toward a consensus; that is the spectrum of unity, is it not?

No consensus is by far perfection and neither is one's personal belief systems. Keeping an open mind is one form of a belief system, however to quote Ghandi "Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is still the truth."

Why should anyone fear debate without insults if their version holds up to public scrutiny and popular opinion?

Popular opinion is by far a better judge in the collective consciousness than a psychological operation run by be it: the military, media, police, and the government. The popular opinion of the collective consciousness can defeat any indefatigable menace that it meets.

Although powers exist that wish domination over all the planet and every living thing, life has proven successful in the elimination of such beings; flawed as they are.

This is not an insult, but your post does also sound a bit brazenly defeatist. As I am an optimist, I believe that no planes evidence is still as you say more if not as loose in credibility as the official 9/11 version of events. Based on this, any other form of sidetracking beyond what the collective consciousness and the popular opinion agree happened, is well, a distraction.

I think this is the point you wanted to make?

If you think that no debate is necessary for a consensus, I believe the fourth paragraph serves as both the answer and the solution, and a closing of the whole section is warranted. Again, I am only calling this as a conclusion based on yourself saying that everything is not credible as evidence.

[bryan]

I do not accept these statements as being truthful nor disingenuous. I find that if there are arguments against any knowledge or the lack thereof, when we are naturally building toward a consensus; that is the spectrum of unity, is it not?

No consensus is by far perfection and neither is one's personal belief systems. Keeping an open mind is one form of a belief system, however to quote Ghandi "Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is still the truth."


Call me paranoid, but the only person I know who writes in this style is John White.



If you think that no debate is necessary for a consensus, I believe the fourth paragraph serves as both the answer and the solution, and a closing of the whole section is warranted. Again, I am only calling this as a conclusion based on yourself saying that everything is not credible as evidence.

Problem-Reaction-Solution.


Next person to argue about planes vs no planes is a fucking SPLITTER! :D



I hope your not serious, crowd control. There's no way an open evaluation of evidence can harm a truth movement. On the contrary, closing down "whole sections" of debate is normally associated with a dictatorship.

[john white]

Call me paranoid, but the only person I know who writes in this style is John White

LOL

You're paranoid?

Shockingly Bryan, everyone who disagrees with you is not the same person, but its always the same, pose the tough questions and rather than deal with them, someone's always gonna claim its multi id's so they don't have to answer.... seen it so many times before

[white horse]

Dark Eternal,

Thanks for this post.

Whether you are who you say you are does not matter, what matters is that your words 'resonate', that is good, there is a ring of truth about them.

It is very good timing, as I have begun to abandon npt debates, as the vitriole was introducing too many negative 'vibes' into my life. I am tryin to focus on positives; like growing my own food and climbing out of debt, finding out who I am and developing my own positive skills and nurturing my family unit... ready for 'the Hammer' if it comes down...

A few weeks ago I showed a friend a short youtube clip of second plane at WTC (one of the black 'shadow puppet' planes that skips across the screen) and she just laughed... she hadn't seen any footage for 8 years, she laughed and laughed and looked at me shocked "fucking hell you have to be kidding me!! They actually did it..." A clip of about 15 seconds, shown once got that reaction. Show these clips outside of the initial shock of the time and that is the reaction...

Thank you for your words of wisdom - let's hope that brings some love in and stops the bickering - this forum used to glow white hot with positivity only a year ago!!

Folks - go forth into the world, spread the word and multiply the positivity!! :D

(I do have one or two questions for curiosity's sake - you mention assassins - was JFK's murder done by a line assassin do you know? Was it the guy in the seat next to the drvier?)

[darketernal]

Dark Eternal,

Thanks for this post.

Whether you are who you say you are does not matter, what matters is that your words 'resonate', that is good, there is a ring of truth about them.

It is very good timing, as I have begun to abandon npt debates, as the vitriole was introducing too many negative 'vibes' into my life. I am tryin to focus on positives; like growing my own food and climbing out of debt, finding out who I am and developing my own positive skills and nurturing my family unit... ready for 'the Hammer' if it comes down...

A few weeks ago I showed a friend a short youtube clip of second plane at WTC (one of the black 'shadow puppet' planes that skips across the screen) and she just laughed... she hadn't seen any footage for 8 years, she laughed and laughed and looked at me shocked "fucking hell you have to be kidding me!! They actually did it..." A clip of about 15 seconds, shown once got that reaction. Show these clips outside of the initial shock of the time and that is the reaction...

Thank you for your words of wisdom - let's hope that brings some love in and stops the bickering - this forum used to glow white hot with positivity only a year ago!!

Folks - go forth into the world, spread the word and multiply the positivity!! :D

(I do have one or two questions for curiosity's sake - you mention assassins - was JFK's murder done by a line assassin do you know? Was it the guy in the seat next to the drvier?)


Sorry was never debriefed on the JFK assassination. I was born in 1976. They would never have had only one shooter for an important hit like that. There would have been no less than 10 guys, at least 3 shooters in different positions, their spotters etc. The driver would have been DID and mind controled in order to get him to drive the car and be part of it because of the high risk to his own life, and to clean his memory of the event. He may not have been the shooter, but he broke protocol with his driving habits during the shooting, so it is clear he was in on it at least in on it in that regard.

[abrilliantone]

Excuse my ignorance darketernal. What does the "DID" abbreviation means? http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-confused013.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

[white horse]

If anyone here has an understanding of the conspiracy you would understand what Dark Eternal is talking about. And I DONT mean that in a molesting way towards people who are saying he is a murderer. Either way I dont care, what he is saying is the truth.

People... people... people...

Get down on your knees, peer into the rabbit hole... and see just how far it goes.

You don't have to measure it and prove it to the milimetre... feel it in your stomach, your heart your bones.

Most people are here cos they 'feel' something, something is wrong, something big.

If I am wrong, and there is nothing big, then so be it, no matter, in teh course of preparing I will have become a better controlled, deeper more spiritual andpositive person, soeither way, I'm good.

It's deep... like real deep... I mean... I have looked... I can't see the end...

[darketernal]

Excuse my ignorance darketernal. What does the "DID" abbreviation means? http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-confused013.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)


Dissociative identity disorder
Dissociative identity disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[abrilliantone]

Thanks buddy. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-happy112.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

With all these internet abbreviations, it's hard to know what stands for what nowadays. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-confused002.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

[white horse]

Ah right, I thought it was Dance Idiot Dance!! (possibly the same thing huh?!!?)

Lol! :D

Sorry if like, humour is inapropriate!

[abrilliantone]

Ah right, I thought it was Dance Idiot Dance!! (possibly the same thing huh?!!?)

Lol! :D

Sorry if like, humour is inapropriate!


LOL http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing009.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org) Laughter is one of the best ways Infinite Oneness expresses itself. :)

[onourwayto2012]

To me this whole issue just illustrates how good at and how successful "they" are at the propaganda, programming, brainwashing....whatever the f*ck you wanna call it. Even though someone looking at this objectively with no prior influences would agree that all aspects of this range from one in a thousand to one in a jillion probability.....and yet even "intelligent" forum members still cling to some or most of the "OS"......geeezus, why is this???.......... geeez, even ONE thing would be HIGHLY improbable....but ALL of them...in a 2 hour period????? JFC!!!!! It's f*cking insane to buy ANY of this sh*t...... come on jw, myname, qas.....what is your real motive?....do you REALLY TRULY believe these things you post?....... by the way dark.... excellent post....thanks!

[white horse]

To me this whole issue just illustrates how good at and how successful "they" are at the propaganda, programming, brainwashing....whatever the f*ck you wanna call it. Even though someone looking at this objectively with no prior influences would agree that all aspects of this range from one in a thousand to one in a jillion probability.....and yet even "intelligent" forum members still cling to some or most of the "OS"......geeezus, why is this???.......... geeez, even ONE thing would be HIGHLY improbable....but ALL of them...in a 2 hour period????? JFC!!!!! It's f*cking insane to buy ANY of this sh*t...... come on jw, myname, qas.....what is your real motive?....do you REALLY TRULY believe these things you post?....... by the way dark.... excellent post....thanks!

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Stephen-Alvarez/Calm-Ocean-and-Blue-Sky-off-the-Coast-of-North-Carolina-Photographic-Print-C12465269.jpeg


Calm blue ocean... calm blue ocean... :) ;)

[bryan]

It's f*cking insane to buy ANY of this sh*t...... come on jw, myname, qas.....what is your real motive?....do you REALLY TRULY believe these things you post?

I think onourwayto2012 knows the answer to this question already, but I'll spell it out for the benefit of people who may not have worked it out for themselves yet.

John White and his crew at UK 9/11 Truth have been given two very important tasks:

1. To cover up the faking of planes by the media.

2. To cover up the nuking of three buildings in the centre of New York.

Their MO is to make it look as if any debate about the possible methods used to carry out 9/11 creates a big PROBLEM. Earlier in this thread they offered their SOLUTION, which is to close down the 9/11 section altogether. This forum is one of the few 9/11 forums where people are allowed to bring up these subjects.

[onourwayto2012]

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Stephen-Alvarez/Calm-Ocean-and-Blue-Sky-off-the-Coast-of-North-Carolina-Photographic-Print-C12465269.jpeg


Calm blue ocean... calm blue ocean... :) ;)
......nice.......
but if there were any actual planes that took off, that's probably where they wound up........ but then Hurricane Erin was out there being manipulated so it wasn't so calm I guess.

[john white]

come on jw....what is your real motive?....do you REALLY TRULY believe these things you post

The honest truth as I know it always, and YES, of course, or I wouldn't post them

Appreciation for my posts I don't expect and have no need for

[darketernal]

LOL http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing009.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org) Laughter is one of the best ways Infinite Oneness expresses itself. :)

Most definately. Some of the things I said in this thread made me the subject of redicule on another forum, and I thought it was so funny and well done I saved a copy of the page, and open it up when I need a good laugh. ;)

[beldazar]

To me this whole issue just illustrates how good at and how successful "they" are at the propaganda, programming, brainwashing....whatever the f*ck you wanna call it. Even though someone looking at this objectively with no prior influences would agree that all aspects of this range from one in a thousand to one in a jillion probability.....and yet even "intelligent" forum members still cling to some or most of the "OS"......geeezus, why is this???.......... geeez, even ONE thing would be HIGHLY improbable....but ALL of them...in a 2 hour period????? JFC!!!!! It's f*cking insane to buy ANY of this sh*t...... come on jw, myname, qas.....what is your real motive?....do you REALLY TRULY believe these things you post?....... by the way dark.... excellent post....thanks!

Excellent post there yourself :)