Why so many famous Freemasons?

[kweli]

Simple question.. obviously open to anyone to answer but I'd like to hear answers from Freemasons. Why are there so many famous Freemasons? Why are there so many influential and powerful men (throughout history) connected to Freemasonry?

[lightgiver]

Simple question.. obviously open to anyone to answer but I'd like to hear answers from Freemasons. Why are there so many famous Freemasons? Why are there so many influential and powerful men (throughout history) connected to Freemasonry?

Theatrics,all the world is a stage,that's the conclusion i have come to,and we are all being led on,in one way or another;)

and the masons are in on it, the theatrics.

just look at what's on offer,endless entertainment in one shape or another and no one is any happier at the end of the day,check it out,and some exploit this for their own devices.

and the majority are the ones being crapped on.Putting it plainly BRAINWASHED.

[boots]

Simple question.. obviously open to anyone to answer but I'd like to hear answers from Freemasons. Why are there so many famous Freemasons? Why are there so many influential and powerful men (throughout history) connected to Freemasonry?

I'd like to know what masons think about this.

[kweli]

I'd like to know what masons think about this.

Yes me too Bootsy, I look forward to their replies.

I have a life long fascination with history, my favourite subject, and every area I research I find connections with Freemasonry; even local history, my town's riddled with it.

[boots]

Yes me too Bootsy, I look forward to their replies.

I have a life long fascination with history, my favourite subject, and every area I research I find connections with Freemasonry; even local history, my town's riddled with it.

It's early in the thread but we have the grand secretary here. Maybe it's to revealing for them.

.

[localidiot]

Well... yeah. There are a lot of famous Masons. There are a lot of famous Christians, elk lodge members, ect.

Most of them are dead at this point.

[kweli]

Well... yeah. There are a lot of famous Masons. There are a lot of famous Christians, elk lodge members, ect.

Most of them are dead at this point.

But why? That was the question.

[grandsecretary]

Well the answer is simple, but I suspect that the Masons in the UGLE will not join in with my answer, but most here will realise which way is up.

Because Freemasonry is a system of EXCLUSION, it is very definitely an elite section of society based upon strict selection and admission criteria.

You won't like it, but that is how it is, and we (The Grand Lodge of All England) do not apologise for it. That is the whole point of Freemasonry.

Initiation requires certain qualifications. Money and position in life not included on the list, but it is necessary, amongst other things to be religious, able, and highly intelligent.

Religious, able, and highly intelligent people tend to get on in life, and many go on to become famous.

The Grand Lodge of All England does not make good men better, the popular slogan in America. That is not our job. We are not the Social Services Department.

We allow men to join who are self sufficient, and who can contribute to the world of Freemasonry. Freemasonry is not a part of general society, it is separate from it.

Shock horror. An honest answer. :eek:

PS: By the way, Freemasonry is not alone in this. Other non-Masonic organisations are also looking for excellence, The Bilderberg Club, and The Bohemian Club, for example.

Believe you me, we are not brain washed at all. We are very clear thinking indeed.

[kweli]

Well the answer is simple, but I suspect that the Masons in the UGLE will not join in with my answer, but most here will realise which way is up.

Because Freemasonry is a system of EXCLUSION, it is very definitely an elite section of society based upon strict selection and admission criteria.

You won't like it, but that is how it is, and we (The Grand Lodge of All England) do not apologise for it. That is the whole point of Freemasonry.

Initiation requires certain qualifications. Money and position in life not included on the list, but it is necessary, amongst other things to be religious, able, and highly intelligent.

Religious, able, and highly intelligent people tend to get on in life, and become famous.

The Grand Lodge of All England does not make good men better, the popular slogan in America. That is not our job. We are not the Social Services Department.

We allow men to join who are self suffciient, and can contribute to the world of Freemasonry. Freemasonry is not a part of general society, it is separate from it.

Shock horror. An honest answer. :eek:

It doesn't shock me.. I can honestly say, you've always answered my questions in a forthright manner. Thank you - it helps.

[serenevasaline]

I always thought it was this.

Fame = Money (most of the time)

Freemasons want to keep control of money .

The more favours you do in the masons the richer you get.

That's simplified because I am tired, but i always thought it was like that.

[grandsecretary]

I always thought it was this.

Fame = Money (most of the time)

Freemasons want to keep control of money .

The more favours you do in the masons the richer you get.

That's simplified because I am tired, but i always thought it was like that.

No. I just told you that money is not one of the criteria, although again, to be absolutely open and honest, religious, able, and highly intelligent men are usually highly sought after, and paid very well. :)

I just want to say that we are NOT the Moderns form of freemasonry. They must speak for themselves.

[localidiot]

Most every Lodge I've looked at has a fair mix of social class in it. Depending on it's location, of course, it'll have a different amount of influenctial folks.

Local Lodge here, the most important fellow from it I guess would be a guy who works with the local government as a computer programer.
Didn't know most of the lodge officers were motorbike enthusiasts, until I checked their bios. Neat.

Generally speaking, the States seem to hav a more laxed approach to it's membership than the GLoAE.
I've sent a email to the Lodge asking about the annual dues and such, to see about what it would run a month.

Generally speaking, I'm elligible to join a Lodge. If they'd let me in... they'd let in just about anyone.

[mike martin]

Simple question.. obviously open to anyone to answer but I'd like to hear answers from Freemasons. Why are there so many famous Freemasons? Why are there so many influential and powerful men (throughout history) connected to Freemasonry?

This is getting a bit surreal another excellent question on the DI Forum.

First, grandsecretary is quite right that our opinions will be different on this and that is clear from the size of the membership of our respective Grand Lodges. The Grand Lodge of All England definitely appears exclusive which is possibly why it's membership numbers in the hundreds, whereas the UGLE is open to men from all walks of life, who ask to join, hence its membership numbers in the hundreds of thousands.

Unfortunately a reality check is needed. There really aren't that many famous Freemasons. Here under the UGLE there are presently around 250,000 Freemasons of which rich, famous and powerful ones runs to a few hundred, there are so many more rich, famous and powerful people who just have no interest in Freemasonry.

I think the point is that if you want to focus on it that way, it seems that there are lots but in reality there just aren't. The lists that people are keen on drawing up tend to exclude all the other Freemasons who are often far better Masons and don't just join because it seems fashionable.

Mike

[grandsecretary]

Generally speaking, I'm elligible to join a Lodge. If they'd let me in... they'd let in just about anyone.

And, if you accept that Freemasonry is a system of EXCLUSION with strict entry criteria, you have just summed up what we consider to be the reason why Freemasonry now has the reputation it has.

Hundreds of thousands of men have been allowed to become freemasons simpy by signing a check for $25 in return for a bumper sticker. They have not the slightest notion of what Freemasonry is, what a Freemason is, and what is expected FROM them, and within minutes they appear on the forums to tell us all what it's all about.

[grandsecretary]

This is getting a bit surreal another excellent question on the DI Forum.

First, grandsecretary is quite right that our opinions will be different on this and that is clear from the size of the membership of our respective Grand Lodges. The Grand Lodge of All England definitely appears exclusive which is possibly why it's membership numbers in the hundreds, whereas the UGLE is open to men from all walks of life, who ask to join, hence its membership numbers in the hundreds of thousands.

Unfortunately a reality check is needed. There really aren't that many famous Freemasons. Here under the UGLE there are presently around 250,000 Freemasons of which rich, famous and powerful ones runs to a few hundred, there are so many more rich, famous and powerful people who just have no interest in Freemasonry.

I think the point is that if you want to focus on it that way, it seems that there are lots but in reality there just aren't. The lists that people are keen on drawing up tend to exclude all the other Freemasons who are often far better Masons and don't just join because it seems fashionable.

Mike

Mike, although we do not wish to become a mass membership organisation constituting, in fact, millions of members in the case of your Grand Lodge, it remains early days for us yet. You will know that we revived The Grand Lodge of All England at York in December 2005.

You are, as you know, guess-timating our membership when you say "... a few hundred".

Please bear in mind that we do not inaugurate hundreds of subordinate Lodges. We have only one St John's Lodge in each territory which carries out the business of Grand Lodge throughout that territory. The Master of a St John's Lodge represents the Grand Master Mason in that territory. Any Passed Master, anywhere in the world, with the permission of the Master, can call a lodge meeting, anywhere within a territory, under the auspices of the St John's Lodge in that territory, and so it is impossible to estimate our membership by lodge counting.

In comparison, it is worth remembering, once again that, in his Diary and Commonplace Book of June 6, 1721, William Stukeley writes:

"I was made a Freemason at the Salutation Tav., Tavistock Street, with Mr. Collins, Capt. Rowe, who made the famous diving Engine. I was the first person for many years who had been so made in London; there was great difficulty in finding sufficient members to perform the Ceremony"

Now at this time the new Grand Lodge at London only operated in London, and nowhere else. It required just 7, (SEVEN) Masons only, to initiate a candidate, and yet this entry was written a full four years after the first meeting at the Goose and Gridiron and five years after the first unnofficial meetings at The Cheshire Cheese Tavern in 1716.

In a later entry, referring to the period after his initiation, he states:

"Thereafter Freemasonry took a run and ran itself out of breath through the folly of its members."

This was a reference to the Anderson Constitutions of 1723, and the following quotation explains his reference to "... the folly of its members".

"The other thing that we have to remember is that Catholics, in those days, could be Freemasons. In fact, it was the only organization in England that afforded them equality within society since the day King James VII of the Scots (James II of England) had been deposed. (He had wanted everyone within the boudaries of his kingdoms to worship according to their own conscience.)

With the Stewarts out of the political picture in Britain, "liberty of conscience" and the concept of equality were firmly ousted. This meant that politics reverted back to the status quo, and no one but Anglicans had any rights at all.

In order to retain this status quo, all lodges in England, or as many as possible, were to be taken over, subverted, even eradicated if necessary.

Although 1717 saw a new, London-based Masonic impetus, working to restore the Stewarts to their rightful inheritance, the plan was foiled after the failure of the Atterbury plot to overthrow George I in 1722.

In 1723, at the end of the Duke of Wharton's grand mastership, the Grand Lodge of England was taken over by Hanoverian infiltrators.

It is interesting to note, in passing, that the lodge's archival records, from its inception in 1717 to June 24, 1723, have totally vanished.

(SOURCE: The Knights Templar of the Middle East by Michael James Alexander Stewart and Walid Amine Salhab, published by Weiser, 2007)

Why have I laid this out like this and at this time?

Well, if you bear in mind that we only revived the Grand Lodge at York, by going public in December 2005, even a few hundred members, if that were the case, after just 3 years, is a pretty good start, and that is why we are content with our progress, and confident for the future.

Adding to this our policy of exclusion based upon strict entry criteria, it is virtually impossible for anyone from the outside to make a valuable comparison based upon numbers of members, and this is how we would wish it to remain. We would prefer any comparisons to be made on substance, and our place in English history.

However, the point of this thread, which is still valid, even in respect of your Grand Lodge, which also has a policy of exclusion but with a different threshold.

The impression given is, of course, exaggerated, because your Grand Lodge and our Grand Lodge publishes famous freemasons lists.

Why do we do this? Well we do it as a bit of fun, and of great interest to the general public. It is popular, witness the hit count on our website, and the popularity of the thread on this forum "Did you know HE was a Freemason?".

Doing this also establishes, without any room for doubt, how ridiculous it is to suggest that, for instance, John Wayne, or Oliver Hardy were evil satanists. The downside is that it does exaggerate the "famous" situation, and it is further and wildly exaggerated by those who claim that Elvis Presley, Doris Day, Carl Marx, Popeye, and anyone else who shakes hands with anyone else, or scratches his or her nose in a press photograph, thereby gives out secret Masonic signs, and is therefore a secret famous Freemason.

[mike martin]

Mike, although we do not wish to become a mass membership organisation constituting, in fact, millions of members in the case of your Grand Lodge, it remains early days for us yet. You will know that we revived The Grand Lodge of All England at York in December 2005.

You are, as you know, guess-timating our membership when you say "... a few hundred".

Peter,

There is no need for conflict and I worded my input to ensure there was no slight to your GL, read my post again. I actually said that GLoAE membership numbered "in the hundreds", the "few hundred" part was describing the amount of famous, powerful and rich who are members of the UGLE.

Mike

[grandsecretary]

Peter,

There is no need for conflict and I worded my input to ensure there was no slight to your GL, read my post again. I actually said that GLoAE membership numbered "in the hundreds", the "few hundred" part was describing the amount of famous, powerful and rich who are members of the UGLE.

Mike

No conflict at all Mike. Please do not read that into it. I just wanted to explain to you and others reading this, at this time and opportunity, that the structure of our Grand Lodge is very, very different from your own, and to report on our progress.

Nothing derogatory was meant. I pointed out that as far as your, and our Grand Lodge is concerned, both of them, that "... great oaks from little acorns grow", but it takes time.

Stukeley was wrong in his assessment, wasn't he?

As I explained, numbers of members is not a very valuable comparison when comparing oranges with kumquats.

You will see that I headed my response "Progress ..." in order to step to one side before adding to the debate on famous freemasons.

Please do not take offense.

Peter

[the guy in pink]

I agree to a large extent with grandsecretary. My experience as a freemason in a small town has allowed me to observe how the able, intelligent, honest and honourable have flourished in their businesses and personal lives over the years I have known them.
The Freemasons in business in our town have a reputation for fair and honest business dealings and as a result people prefer to do business with them. Their staff are loyal and stay with them longer as they are treated fairly and with respect by their Freemason employers.
The type of people that are attracted to and accepted by Freemasonry are the type of person that will be successful in whatever they attempt.

[localidiot]

The type of people that are attracted to and accepted by Freemasonry are the type of person that will be successful in whatever they attempt.

Ah, that's why I haven't tried to join.
'Cause I'm... not. :rolleyes:

Best comparison I have for Masonry is karate.
People make a lot more out of it than it is, and generally miss the point entirely.
A lot of famous people have been a part of it (Chuck Norris, Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan)...
People put up a lot more up about the higher ranks than is true...
People believe they can learn it from video...
Most people aren't really aware of the actual structure or different branches...
Really, I could continue on that thread... but better not.