What is the "Red Lodge"? (Masons reply plz) [Archive]

dawnismygoddess

14-01-2009, 05:13 AM

I keep hearing this term as of late, and I have not been able to find anything about it.

Is is related to the Fraternitas Rosae Crucis (Order of the Rose Cross) or Rosicrucian movement?

And how is it different and/or related to the Blue Lodge?

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/pjewelrc.jpg

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/sricf_lamen.gif

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/AethSymbol.gif

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/MasonicRosicrucianSociety.png

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/cruce20rosea1nj7-1.jpg

Any web links to additional information would be greatly appreciated.

thetonic

14-01-2009, 06:23 AM

[QUOTE=dawnismygoddess;730527]I keep hearing this term as of late, and I have not been able to find anything about it.

Is is related to the Fraternitas Rosae Crucis (Order of the Rose Cross) or Rosicrucian movement?

And how is it different and/or related to the Blue Lodge?

the masons on this forum are so fucking ignorant .. why you would only ask for their reply ?

the more i witness what goes on here , the more I feel the illuminati have the right to punish every one of you , masons included, you are anything but immune to what they do...

dawnismygoddess

14-01-2009, 06:28 AM

Where did I say that I wanted only the Masons to reply? Everyone is welcome.

I just want to hear what is the "official" explanation.

michael christopher

14-01-2009, 07:00 AM

[QUOTE]

the masons on this forum are so fucking ignorant .. why you would only ask for their reply ?

the more i witness what goes on here , the more I feel the illuminati have the right to punish every one of you , masons included, you are anything but immune to what they do...

Wow, that was quite a nasty response. Why are you filled with so much rage?

the guy in pink

14-01-2009, 07:07 AM

dawnismygoddess

14-01-2009, 07:13 AM

Duh! Why didn't I think of that!?

Thanks much.

Royal Arch Degree apron:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/RoyalArchapron-1.gif

Blue Lodge apron:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/apron7.jpg

jacob sladder

14-01-2009, 02:03 PM

The Royal arch degree is usually refered to as "Red Lodge" from the colour of the trim on the aprons. The Craft lodges (First Three degrees) have Blue trim on their aprons and are refered to as "Blue Lodge"

Crikey! I am in the Holy Royal Arch and never knew it was called 'Red Lodge'
- although obvious when pointed out.
Is this an American thing?

grandsecretary

14-01-2009, 02:17 PM

I keep hearing this term as of late, and I have not been able to find anything about it.

And how is it different and/or related to the Blue Lodge?

A "Red Lodge", or "Red Apron Lodge" is the slang name for those few (mainly older) UGLE lodges that are designated Grand Stewards Lodges.

Unlike other Masons, members of Grand Stewards Lodges have aprons trimmed in a maroon colour, rather than the usual light blue.

They act as Stewards in Grand Lodge, where they also wear a Steward's Collar which is maroon in colour, to match the aprons.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/grandsecretary/GrandStewardsCollar.jpg

Grand Stewards are normal Masons (no ritual differences with normal "blue" lodges), NOT Grand Officers, although membership of a Grand Stewards Lodge carries some prestige along with it. Membership is considered to be a "fast track" to a promotion to a Grand Office.

A Red Lodge should not be confused with a Royal Arch Chapter.

I hope that this explains exactly what a "Red Lodge" or a "Red Apron Lodge" is.

jacob sladder

14-01-2009, 02:28 PM

Oh I see, I'm not in Red Lodge (Chapter) after all.
Thanks GS, no wonder I have never heard the term before!

grandsecretary

14-01-2009, 02:35 PM

Oh I see, I'm not in Red Lodge (Chapter) after all.
Thanks GS, no wonder I have never heard the term before!

No problem, my pleasure. I was a member of a Royal Arch Chapter connected to a Grand Stewards (red) Lodge.

thelonious

14-01-2009, 03:29 PM

"Red Lodge" is also a slang title given to Craft Lodges that work in the French or Scottish Rites, or other less known rites on the Continent.

grandsecretary

14-01-2009, 03:32 PM

I found this reference:

The earliest surviving references to the Stewards' crimson appears to be that in the minutes of Grand Lodge for 17 March 1731:

Dr Desaguliers Proposed.

"That none but the Grand Master, his Deputy and Wardens shall wear their Jewels in Gold or Gilt pendant to blue Ribbons about their Necks and white Leather Aprons lined with blue Silk.

That all those who have served any of the three Grand Offices shall wear the like Aprons lined with blue Silk in all Lodges and assemblies of Masons when they appear clothed.

That those Brethren that are Stewards shall wear their aprons lined with red Silk and their proper Jewels pendant to red Ribbons.

That all those who have served the Office of Steward be at Liberty to wear Aprons lined with red Silk and not otherwise.

That all Masters and Wardens of Lodges may wear their Aprons lined with White Silk and their respective Jewels with plain White ribbons but of no other Colour whatsoever.

The Deputy Grand Master accordingly put the Question whether the above Regulation should be agreed to.

And it was carried in the affirmative Nemine con."
I hope that this helps.

eastbeast

14-01-2009, 03:34 PM

[QUOTE]

the masons on this forum are so fucking ignorant .. why you would only ask for their reply ?

Well the ignorance of the Freemasons here has been revealed then hasn't it in the answers given to the question politely asked by dawnismygodess.

I think you have just amply illustrated who exhibits ignorance.

grandsecretary

14-01-2009, 04:11 PM

[QUOTE=thetonic;730561]

Well the ignorance of the Freemasons here has been revealed then hasn't it in the answers given to the question politely asked by dawnismygodess.

I think you have just amply illustrated who exhibits ignorance.

dawnismygoddess asks questions in order to illicit factual information, and to add to the general debate. She is a nice person, and so we respond accordingly. That is the difference.

Others are here because they have personal or political axes to grind. They have reached their own conclusions and will not truck anything, or anybody who might persuade them to modify their thinking.

My old Irish grandmother's advice rings so true in this case:-

You cannot educate pork. It can only grunt. No matter how hard you try, it will never sing "Yankee Doodle Dandy".

eastbeast

14-01-2009, 04:38 PM

[QUOTE=eastbeast;731217]

dawnismygoddess asks questions in order to illicit factual information, and to add to the general debate. She is a nice person, and so we respond accordingly. That is the difference.

Others are here because they have personal or political axes to grind. They have reached their own conclusions and will not truck anything, or anybody who might persuade them to modify their thinking.

My old Irish grandmother's advice rings so true in this case:-

I totally agree Peter, damnismygodess does seem to be someone with whom intelligent debate is possible and even enjoyable,

I think 'She' is a 'He' though?

I'm with you on the remainder of your post as well.

grandsecretary

14-01-2009, 06:28 PM

[QUOTE=grandsecretary;731317]

I totally agree Peter, damnismygodess does seem to be someone with whom intelligent debate is possible and even enjoyable,

I think 'She' is a 'He' though?

I'm with you on the remainder of your post as well.

My apologies for my sexist assumption. He, or she, is IMHO, a nice person.

dawnismygoddess

15-01-2009, 12:43 AM

A "Red Lodge", or "Red Apron Lodge" is the slang name for those few (mainly older) UGLE lodges that are designated Grand Stewards Lodges.

GS and others - thank you for your replies. I have another question: concerning the statement above, does this mean that there cannot be a "Red Lodge" in the United States? (considering you said UGLE)

Also, the Royal Arch Degree cannot be considered a "Red Lodge" either?

Oh, and for the record GS I am a male, but I will not fault you for your assumption. :)

michael christopher

15-01-2009, 12:54 AM

My old Irish grandmother's advice rings so true in this case:-

Quote:
You cannot educate pork. It can only grunt. No matter how hard you try, it will never sing "Yankee Doodle Dandy".

Shhh, don't refer to humans as pork or you might be accused of being a real life reptilian.

grandsecretary

15-01-2009, 01:32 AM

GS and others - thank you for your replies. I have another question: concerning the statement above, does this mean that there cannot be a "Red Lodge" in the United States? (considering you said UGLE)

Also, the Royal Arch Degree cannot be considered a "Red Lodge" either?

Oh, and for the record GS I am a male, but I will not fault you for your assumption. :)

I used shorthand and this is why.

Ancient Free and Accepted Masons in The United States exist today because they sought, and received, warrants (formal permission) to exist as Masonic Grand Lodges either from The United Grand Lodge of England or The Grand Lodge of Scotland.

The United Grand Lodge of England and The Grand Lodge of Scotland are tied together due to:

1) the exchange of protocols (1772) between The Grand Lodge of Scotland; The Grand Lodge of Ireland, and The Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons according to the Old Institution;

2) subsequently the Charter of Compact between the Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons according to the Old Institution and The Grand Lodge of London (1812), which lead on to,

3) The formation of The United Grand Lodge of England (1813).

They all work under the authority of the Moderns Constitutions of Dr James Anderson, 1723 revised 1738.

My apologies if I confused matters by using shorthand. The history is a little confusing. A reference here will explain in some detail: http://www.grandlodgeofallengland.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22&Itemid=30

I hope that this clarifies matters for you - sir!

American Grand Lodges have a similar system of Grand Stewards as well.

dawnismygoddess

15-01-2009, 01:48 AM

Really? Wow, I did not know that.

So, then there could be "Red Lodges" in the United States?

Are there Grand Stewards Lodges (or the equivalent) in the United States?

mike martin

15-01-2009, 01:52 AM

So, then there could be "Red Lodges" in the United States?
I think thelonious already said that it was used as a slang term there. Thelonious is an American btw.

Are there Grand Stewards Lodges (or the equivalent) in the United States?
I don't think they have the same system in their Grand Lodges but thelonious should be able to tell that one.

Mike

moina

15-01-2009, 01:55 AM

What is the difference between blue and red lodges in freemasonry?

dawnismygoddess

15-01-2009, 01:57 AM

From a book I have been reading:

"...in some places "time immemorial lodges" arose - that is, lodges started at an unknown date by Englishmen who operated without authority from any Grand Lodge or Provincial Master."

Benjamin Franklin was first made a Mason in one such self-constituted lodge in Philadelphia as early as 1731."

What happened to these lodges? They were just assimilated at a later date?

mike martin

15-01-2009, 01:58 AM

What is the difference between blue and red lodges in freemasonry?

It's often considered to be a good idea to read some of the topic before jumping in.

Post #5
The Royal arch degree is usually refered to as "Red Lodge" from the colour of the trim on the aprons. The Craft lodges (First Three degrees) have Blue trim on their aprons and are refered to as "Blue Lodge"

Mike

dawnismygoddess

15-01-2009, 02:02 AM

What is the difference between blue and red lodges in freemasonry?

Blue Lodge (Craft Lodge or Symbolic Lodge) = the starting point for all men who wish to become Masons. The Blue Lodge confers the following degrees:

1. Entered Apprentice

2. Fellow Craft

3. Master Mason

Red Lodge is apparently just an American slang term for the Royal Arch Degree. However, I am still trying to clarify this.

grandsecretary

15-01-2009, 02:13 AM

Blue Lodge (Craft Lodge or Symbolic Lodge) = the starting point for all men who wish to become Masons. The Blue Lodge confers the following degrees:

1. Entered Apprentice

2. Fellow Craft

3. Master Mason

Red Lodge is apparently just an American slang term for the Royal Arch Degree. However, I am still trying to clarify this.

American slang and English slang are different, as is English and American understanding of many matters.

You see, in both cases, England and America, a Royal Arch Chapter is a Chapter, not a Lodge and so it cannot be a "red lodge" it is a "red chapter".

If Americans do call a Chapter a Lodge then I must say that it is a Masonic inexactitude.

The only "red lodges" or "red apron lodges" in England, as far as I know, are the Grand Stewards Lodges.

mike martin

15-01-2009, 02:16 AM

"...in some places "time immemorial lodges" arose - that is, lodges started at an unknown date by Englishmen who operated without authority from any Grand Lodge or Provincial Master."

Benjamin Franklin was first made a Mason in one such self-constituted lodge in Philadelphia as early as 1731."

What happened to these lodges? They were just assimilated at a later date?

Rather than go through the development of the GL of Pensyvania here are couple of articles on its development:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Lodge_of_Pennsylvania#The_Tun_Tavern_Lodge

http://www.pagrandlodge.org/freemason/0106/page12-13.html

Mike

mike martin

15-01-2009, 02:21 AM

Blue Lodge (Craft Lodge or Symbolic Lodge) = the starting point for all men who wish to become Masons. The Blue Lodge confers the following degrees:

1. Entered Apprentice

2. Fellow Craft

3. Master Mason

Red Lodge is apparently just an American slang term for the Royal Arch Degree. However, I am still trying to clarify this.

Under the UGLE we do not call a Craft Lodge "blue"!
If we feel the need to differentiate between Lodges we usually say Craft Lodge or Mark Lodge.
As Peter says Royal Arch units are Chapters not Lodges.

This is what an English RA apron looks like:
http://www.letchworthshop.co.uk/shop-images/2293.jpg
Mike

dawnismygoddess

15-01-2009, 02:29 AM

American slang and English slang are different, as is English and American understanding of many matters.

You see, in both cases, England and America, a Royal Arch Chapter is a Chapter, not a Lodge and so it cannot be a "red lodge" it is a "red chapter".

If Americans do call a Chapter a Lodge then I must say that it is a Masonic inexactitude.

The only "red lodges" or "red apron lodges" in England, as far as I know, are the Grand Stewards Lodges.

Thanks GS.

The whole reason I brought this topic up in the first place (red lodge) is because someone said that in the first Matrix film, the blue and red pills represented the Blue and Red Lodges of Masonry.

I wanted to get your guys opinion on the Red Lodge first, before taking the thread farther.

So, what do you think? In my opinion there is also a lot of other Masonic imagery, etc. in the Matrix series - esp. the first film.

Do we want the Red (Red Lodge) or Blue (Blue Lodge) pill?:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/red-pill-or-blue-pill.jpg

dawnismygoddess

15-01-2009, 02:32 AM

Under the UGLE we do not call a Craft Lodge "blue"!
If we feel the need to differentiate between Lodges we usually say Craft Lodge or Mark Lodge.
As Peter says Royal Arch units are Chapters not Lodges.

This is what an English RA apron looks like:
http://www.letchworthshop.co.uk/shop-images/2293.jpg
Mike

Here in the States, the term Blue Lodge is very much in use. I hear it all the time:

"Blue Lodges, Craft Lodges or Ancient Craft Lodges refer to the lodges that work the first three Masonic degrees, rather than the appendant Masonic orders Masonic orders such as York Rite and Scottish Rite.

The term "Craft Lodge"is used in Great Britain. The Blue Lodge is said to refer to the traditional color of regalia in Lodges derived from English or Irish Freemasonry. Although the term was originally frowned upon, it has gained widespread and mainstream usage in America in recent times."

mike martin

15-01-2009, 02:37 AM

Here in the States, the term Blue Lodge is very much in use. I hear it all the time:

Just one of the innumerable differences between Freemasonry in different countries.

Mike

grandsecretary

15-01-2009, 02:37 AM

dawnismygoddess

15-01-2009, 02:44 AM

Just one of the innumerable differences between Freemasonry in different countries.

I guess so, ya learn something new everyday...

And you are right Mike, here in the states the Royal Arch Degree lodges are called chapters. So, it would appear the the term "Red Lodge" is strictly an American slang phrase.

IMHO, no, but it might be the Director was misinformed, in which case, yes.

Thanks GS. I would think that this interpretation would go along quite well with the popular culture atmosphere surrounding the making of that movie in the first place.

grandsecretary

15-01-2009, 02:49 AM

I guess so, ya learn something new everyday...

And you are right Mike, here in the states the Royal Arch Degree lodges are called chapters. So, it would appear the the term "Red Lodge" is strictly an American slang phrase.

Thanks GS. I would think that this interpretation would go along quite well with the popular culture atmosphere surrounding the making of that movie in the first place.

I expect so. Films are not real life you know!

dawnismygoddess

15-01-2009, 02:53 AM

I just found it interesting that this is the point where Neo is given the choice to "wake up" or find out the truth.

thelonious

15-01-2009, 03:12 PM

Red Lodge is apparently just an American slang term for the Royal Arch Degree. However, I am still trying to clarify this.

I've never heard the Royal Arch called "Red Lodge" in the USA, although Prince Hall Masons call the Chapter "Red House", and call the Lodge "Blue House".

"Red Lodge", in the USA, almost always refers to Craft Lodges of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, while "Blue Lodge" denotes a Craft Lodge working in the York, or traditional English, Rite.

mike martin

15-01-2009, 09:21 PM

Any web links to additional information would be greatly appreciated.
I found these:
http://www.themasonictrowel.com/Articles/Symbolism/lodge_files/red_and_blue_lodges.htm
http://www.grandchapter-bc-yukon.ca/further_light.htm

Mike

grandsecretary

15-01-2009, 09:48 PM

I found these:
http://www.themasonictrowel.com/Articles/Symbolism/lodge_files/red_and_blue_lodges.htm
http://www.grandchapter-bc-yukon.ca/further_light.htm

Mike

The evidence suggests that it is an Americas thing.

barney_rubble

15-01-2009, 11:03 PM

Thanks GS.

The whole reason I brought this topic up in the first place (red lodge) is because someone said that in the first Matrix film, the blue and red pills represented the Blue and Red Lodges of Masonry.

I wanted to get your guys opinion on the Red Lodge first, before taking the thread farther.

So, what do you think? In my opinion there is also a lot of other Masonic imagery, etc. in the Matrix series - esp. the first film.

Do we want the Red (Red Lodge) or Blue (Blue Lodge) pill?:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/red-pill-or-blue-pill.jpg

Now you have to bring The Matrix movies into it.

I have heard (but have never been able to confirm) that the directors of the Matrix series, the Wachowski Brothers (Andy Wachowski & Larry Wachowski), are Freemasons (or members of OTO) and that the three movies do represent the first three degrees.

Is it true - I do not know. I can not find any definitive proof.
The Wachowski Brothers do not confirm or deny.

There are some interestingly placed images:
1. Checkered pavements
2. Know thyself on the plaque above the Oracle's door (very ancient Mystery religiony)
3. Neo awakening in the first movie, Learning in the 2nd, Master in the 3rd
4. Among other I would have to watch them again - but at the time I thought Hmmm

It could be but that stuff might be in there just to keep the audience guessing.
I do know they are NOT on the lodge viewing list :)

As for the pills though from the dialogue in the movie I think they refer more to the Alice in wonderland with lines like:
"I imagine right now you're feeling a bit like Alice, tumbling down the rabbit hole?" and "You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes."

Or maybe it is a reference to Jefferson Airplane's White Rabit - "One pill makes you larger, and one pill makes you small ..."

dawnismygoddess

16-01-2009, 05:31 AM

I've never heard the Royal Arch called "Red Lodge" in the USA, although Prince Hall Masons call the Chapter "Red House", and call the Lodge "Blue House".

"Red Lodge", in the USA, almost always refers to Craft Lodges of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, while "Blue Lodge" denotes a Craft Lodge working in the York, or traditional English, Rite.

Thank you for this information, thelonious. This helps to clarify it for me.

In this light, the Matrix theory seems more plausible, esp. when considering that it was an American production.

York Rite:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/YorkRitebodies.png

Scottish Rite:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/32eagleLG-2.gif

I found these:
http://www.themasonictrowel.com/Articles/Symbolism/lodge_files/red_and_blue_lodges.htm
http://www.grandchapter-bc-yukon.ca/further_light.htm

Thanks for the links, Mike.

I have heard (but have never been able to confirm) that the directors of the Matrix series, the Wachowski Brothers (Andy Wachowski & Larry Wachowski), are Freemasons (or members of OTO) and that the three movies do represent the first three degrees.

If I were to guess, I would say O.T.O. - I have heard that many Hollywood types are in it.

Also, the three films could be thought of as a Trinity.

And there was a checkerboard floor in the first film in the stairway scene (the one with the black cat)

abrilliantone

16-01-2009, 08:02 AM

You might find this quite interesting dawnismygoddess. :)

It relates to your "Matrix" references. :)

click here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziYnvEBOOfE) to watch a movie

:)

dawnismygoddess

16-01-2009, 08:29 AM

Thanks for the link, abrilliantone.

I just watched it, pretty good, except I think that they are reading into it a little bit too much - and there is tons they missed!

The "Grand Architect of the Universe" or "Grand Geometrician"

Grand Architect of the Universe (GAOTU):
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/GAOTU1.jpg

Near the of end of The Matrix Reloaded, when Neo meets "The Architect"

Neo meets The Architect:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/the_architect.jpg

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/matrixreloaded63.jpg

abrilliantone

16-01-2009, 09:07 AM

dawnismygoddess

16-01-2009, 09:31 AM

There is some good numerology in Matrix Reloaded

dawnismygoddess

05-03-2009, 05:12 AM

For all of the U.K. Masons....yes, the Blue Lodge is real in the U.S.! (some doubts had been expressed :))

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/BlueLodge3.jpg

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/pa-blue-lodge-sample.jpg

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/PAbluelodge.jpg

cognizant

05-03-2009, 08:28 AM

Yes, the term Blue Lodge is used quite often in the US for the first 3 degrees. I don't remember hearing the term Red Lodge while growing up, but that correlation with the Scottish Rite sounds right.

speculative

05-03-2009, 01:47 PM

Just as an aside, I have a friend who is Christian to the core. and she manages to pull so many christian references from The Matrix its almost amazing.

thetonic

05-03-2009, 06:33 PM

There are some interestingly placed images:
1. Checkered pavements
2. Know thyself on the plaque above the Oracle's door (very ancient Mystery religiony)
3. Neo awakening in the first movie, Learning in the 2nd, Master in the 3rd
4. Among other I would have to watch them again - but at the time I thought Hmmm

Wachowskis are OTO ...

The whole movie is steeped in such masonic allegory and occult its not even funny...

from Neos passport with expiration date of 9-11-2001 to the very concept of a machine consciousness plugged into all of humanity ... the whole thing is very luciferic

thelonious

05-03-2009, 07:01 PM

Wachowskis are OTO ...

The whole movie is steeped in such masonic allegory and occult its not even funny...

I don't see a Masonic connection, but O.T.O. allegory is pretty obvious. Neo begins as a "sleeper", plugged into the machine of materialism. Morpheus represents the Illuminati, who enlightens Neo. Neo in turn tries to free others from the Matrix by enlightening them, and so on.

thetonic

05-03-2009, 07:57 PM

]I don't see a Masonic connection[/B], but O.T.O. allegory is pretty obvious. Neo begins as a "sleeper", plugged into the machine of materialism. Morpheus represents the Illuminati, who enlightens Neo. Neo in turn tries to free others from the Matrix by enlightening them, and so on.

oh i guess pyramids with all seeing eyes, black n white checkered floor, etc.. dont register as 'masonic' then ???

thelonious

05-03-2009, 08:26 PM

oh i guess pyramids with all seeing eyes, black n white checkered floor, etc.. dont register as 'masonic' then ???

That comes more from the O.T.O., although, of course, O.T.O. did borrow a lot of symbolism from Masonry.

dawnismygoddess

06-03-2009, 05:38 AM

That comes more from the O.T.O., although, of course, O.T.O. did borrow a lot of symbolism from Masonry.

Yeah.....that would be a little bit of an understatement....

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/OTOFoundersresized.jpg

thelonious

06-03-2009, 02:52 PM

Yeah.....that would be a little bit of an understatement....

I'm a former member of the O.T.O., was involved with them before I decided to explore Masonry. There are many similarities between the two organizations, but there are also major differences.

I personally don't have anything against O.T.O. per se, it was just not the right path for me.

offramp

24-06-2011, 10:59 AM

Neo represents the enlightened Freemason fighting against the forces of oppression and fascism represented by Agent Smith and his colleagues.

Only those who accept Freemasonry (the blue pill) can see the world as it really is and begin the search to find ones true self.

It is an interesting metaphor.

sae629be

24-06-2011, 03:03 PM

The Royal arch degree is usually refered to as "Red Lodge" from the colour of the trim on the aprons. The Craft lodges (First Three degrees) have Blue trim on their aprons and are refered to as "Blue Lodge"

The "blue" degrees are the first three - Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft and Master Mason.

These are the "red" degrees:-

4. Secret Master
5. Perfect Master
6. Intimate Secretary
7. Provost and judge
8. Intendant of the Buildings
9. Elect of Nine
10. Elect of Fifteen
11. Sublime Elect
12. Grand Master Architect
13. Royal Arch of Enoch
14. Scotch Knight of Perfection
15. Knight of the Sword or the East
16. Prince of Jerusalem
17. Knight of the East and West
18. Sovereign Prince of Rose Croix of H.R.D.M.

sofa king

24-06-2011, 03:44 PM

The "blue" degrees are the first three - Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft and Master Mason.

These are the "red" degrees:-

The 4th to 18th degrees you listed comprise 2 or 3 separate SR bodies (depending on jurisdiction) Please explain how these are "red degrees"

As has been said multiple times, blue lodge/red lodge is American jargon to differentiate Engllish vs. French ritual.

sae629be

24-06-2011, 07:27 PM

The 4th to 18th degrees you listed comprise 2 or 3 separate SR bodies (depending on jurisdiction) Please explain how these are "red degrees"

As has been said multiple times, blue lodge/red lodge is American jargon to differentiate Engllish vs. French ritual.

In my own Order, LDH, all the degrees of the A&ASR are worked - right from the 1st to the 33rd - within the same structure. the 4th to the 18th (Rose Croix) are conferred in a single evening and Brethren are not eligible for this until they are either a PM or have been an active MM for 10 years. The reason it is called "red" is because of the regalia worn. The Rose Croix is of course pink rather than red - but the name still applies. Likewise the 19th to the 30th degrees inclusive are conferred in one ceremony when the Bro becomes Knight Kadosh. The 31st, 32nd and 33rd degrees are conferred singly and by Supreme Council.

kadosh

26-06-2011, 05:24 AM

Let us be absolutely clear on this matter. The Red Degrees of a Royal Arch Chapter have nothing to do with the 33 degrees of the AASR. They are two completely separate masonic groups and it is not correct at all to say that the Red Degrees are part of and form a continuation within the AASR of any jurisdiction in Masonry.

munkdo

27-06-2011, 12:01 AM

I'm a former member of the O.T.O., was involved with them before I decided to explore Masonry. There are many similarities between the two organizations, but there are also major differences.

I personally don't have anything against O.T.O. per se, it was just not the right path for me.

what was it like being a OTO member

did you do any crazy stuff?

are they just normal people or wierd or evil somehow?