Whats up with the old testament ?

[darkseid]

When I was young I had to read the old testament and I use to say to myself(yahweh) is a very unpleasant character. He is jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticide, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. I could go on lol but to me back then the old testament was more like a horror story religion has always made me feel uncomfortable but hey maybe its just me ?

[binkbonk]

When I was young I had to read the old testament and I use to say to myself(yahweh) is a very unpleasant character. He is jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticide, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. I could go on lol but to me back then the old testament was more like a horror story religion has always made me feel uncomfortable but hey maybe its just me ?
Well put.

[logic bomb]

Please keep the News Forum for News.

Thanks.

[armoured_amazon]

When I was young I had to read the old testament and I use to say to myself(yahweh) is a very unpleasant character. He is jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticide, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. I could go on lol but to me back then the old testament was more like a horror story religion has always made me feel uncomfortable but hey maybe its just me ?

LOL did you? I always saw God's mercy. Those Israelites behaved like brats. :D

[beldazar]

When I was young I had to read the old testament and I use to say to myself(yahweh) is a very unpleasant character. He is jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticide, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. I could go on lol but to me back then the old testament was more like a horror story religion has always made me feel uncomfortable but hey maybe its just me ?


Yes, I listened to Adampants this morning saying the same thing.

Ive not read the bible but I would be interested to hear from any religious people what they think of the differences between the old and new testament god and most of all........why? Do they think god got spiritual or do they think its a different god for some crazy, insane reason? :confused:

[dedicate]

You had to read the Old Testament? And when you were young? I wouldn't be too happy about that either.

This is one of the more common themes that people bring up. I think it is just you. YOu are reading things in the book that aren't there and you are blind to things that are there. Most likely that is it.

For example, the question you pose is about some book. But the real questions should be directed at you. How do you see life? What happens after death? Why do you think people suffer? What sort of morality do you practice? Do you believe in God? All answers will color your view of any religious text.

It seems to me you are like a person who is presented with the idea of negative numbers and says without much thought into it, "negative numbers! You must be crazy. I'm not going to listen to this." And the idea of negative numbers shouldn't be forced upon anybody, much less the very young.

[beldazar]

Talk about evading the question....:rolleyes:

Anyone else?

[dedicate]

Anyone who asks "do you think God got spiritual"? Isn't gonna get any answer that will satisfy him.

[marpat]

LOL did you? I always saw God's mercy. Those Israelites behaved like brats. :D


Even the Jewish Jesus?

[beldazar]

or her.........:p

[1977]

A magical text written by the conniving priesthood to deliberately mislead, confuse, and confound the minds of the masses.

[zero1]

When I was young I had to read the old testament and I use to say to myself(yahweh) is a very unpleasant character. He is jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticide, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. I could go on lol but to me back then the old testament was more like a horror story religion has always made me feel uncomfortable but hey maybe its just me ?

Bold part, you got directly almost word-for-word from Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion.

That's very bad form, and shows what that you are yet another horrible little internet monkey from Atheistsville with a grudge against people who know better and are smarter than you. Now fuck off.

[angel wings]

Bold part, you got directly almost word-for-word from Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion.

That's very bad form, and shows what that you are yet another horrible little internet monkey from Atheistsville with a grudge against people who know better and are smarter than you. Now fuck off.

Ouch that's uncessarily harsh:confused:

[zero1]

Ouch that's uncessarily harsh:confused:

Maybe...

[michael christopher]

Yes, I listened to Adampants this morning saying the same thing.

Ive not read the bible but I would be interested to hear from any religious people what they think of the differences between the old and new testament god and most of all........why? Do they think god got spiritual or do they think its a different god for some crazy, insane reason? :confused:

Christians don't care that the god in the old testament and the god in thew new testament are different. Although both are even explicitly referred to as being different (one being the Lord God and one being the Lord), there are any number of ridiculous explanations to create a justification for the bloodthirstiness of the old testament "Lord God" that they worship. My favorite is that Jesus "fulfilled a pact" by dying on the cross and thus the old testament commandments no longer matter. Although there is nothing saying that anywhere in the Bible, it is a commonly accepted explanation.

Christians have incredibly shallow belief systems. Sorry if that offends anyone, but seriously, if you would just look at your own religion from the perspective of a non-Christian you would see how ridiculous some of the bullshit that is presented as "divine truth" is. It's almost all made up by people. The Bible has a lot of truth in it, but mostly lies.

You had to read the Old Testament? And when you were young? I wouldn't be too happy about that either.

This is one of the more common themes that people bring up. I think it is just you. YOu are reading things in the book that aren't there and you are blind to things that are there. Most likely that is it.

For example, the question you pose is about some book. But the real questions should be directed at you. How do you see life? What happens after death? Why do you think people suffer? What sort of morality do you practice? Do you believe in God? All answers will color your view of any religious text.

It seems to me you are like a person who is presented with the idea of negative numbers and says without much thought into it, "negative numbers! You must be crazy. I'm not going to listen to this." And the idea of negative numbers shouldn't be forced upon anybody, much less the very young.

You didn't answer the question at all, you simply made some very simple-minded excuse as to why this question shouldn't be asked. How can you deny that God destroys nations out of jealousy when he says "I am a jealous God" himself? It would be one thing if God let nations destroy themselves, as supposedly the "Lord" referred to in the Bible (as opposed to the "Lord God" referred to in the Bible, which is actually the demi-urge) does. But the Lord God openly proclaims he is destroying nations and people for disobedience. He commands his followers to kill deviants.

[beldazar]

Thankyou Michael Christopher, it was a genuine enquiry, I wasnt trying to stir things and Im not atheist myself. I would perfer to address the 'god' thing as Universal Consciousness which I believe our souls are part of.

The thing is with anyone having a rigid faith system is that they hold onto it even harder when anomalies occur because that is exactly how they have been conditioned.

Now its MY turn to apologise if I have upset anyone :o

[michael christopher]

Thankyou Michael Christopher, it was a genuine enquiry, I wasnt trying to stir things and Im not atheist myself. I would perfer to address the 'god' thing as Universal Consciousness which I believe our souls are part of.

The thing is with anyone having a rigid faith system is that they hold onto it even harder when anomalies occur because that is exactly how they have been conditioned.

Now its MY turn to apologise if I have upset anyone :o

I agree with you. Actually, I find it quite humorous that when evidence that supports a contrary worldview pops up, the individual who holds the original worldview feels ATTACKED and actually comes to the defense of the discredited worldview, claiming that all contrary evidence is tinged with darkness/lies.

People are so easy to understand. They just pretend they are complex.

[beldazar]

Yes.

David Icke did a really good piece about it in one of his newsletters, (cognitive dissonance being the term) it explained an awful lot and I found it very useful for understanding why people, when confronted with information that doesnt fit in with their world view, respond by attacking the person relaying it :)

[phildee3]

Christians don't care that the god in the old testament and the god in thew new testament are different.



I am an ordained acolyte and have been a cleric since 1983
and I care very much about this.



Christians have incredibly shallow belief systems.



and you have an incredibly broad brush!


beldazar's question is that of a genuine seeker.

Yes, they are different gods.
The OT god is YHVH/Jehovah - the creator god of the Jews the demiurge.
The NT god is the all-that-is.

They were identified as one and the same by the Romans who did this to try and destroy real Christianity by creating a fake, Judeo-Christianity as their state religion to control the people through fear.

[michael christopher]

They were identified as one and the same by the Romans who did this to try and destroy real Christianity by creating a fake, Judeo-Christianity as their state religion to control the people through fear.

Yes, this Judeo-Christianity is called modern-day mainstream or evangelical Christianity. Humans are socially evolving to the point where the false Bible is being ignored.

Sorry to say all Christians have shallow belief systems, perhaps I am bitter that 90% of the ones I have ever met in my life have no clue what the implications are of supporting the disgusting modern Bible.

There is much truth in the Bible - honestly, most of what Christ says isn't even tampered with. But the context and the interpretations have been tampered with if not outright fabricated (the Book of John was written over 100 years after Christ died, and was written in response to the popular gnostic gospels of Christ's apostle Thomas - who John actively shuns in the Book of John). In some sense I believe Christ was the gateway through which all of our souls must proceed to evolve, but only because Christ was the first human to get it right. I really don't think that he was the divine son of God and while I do respect other people's right to believe whatever they want, can they really expect me to sit back and just say "Well, it's possible!" when I really don't believe it to be so? Christians are allowed to express their opinions, but when non-Christians express contrary opinions then they are somehow attacking Christians. I just think it's absurd.

Judeo-Christianity has been predominant in western culture for centuries and honestly, modern-day Christianity is one of the main things destroying this planet. It completely perverts and distorts Christ's message that the inner universe is more important than the outer. Modern day Christians who believe in the exoteric interpretation of the Bible are externalists, and they are killing humanity. I'm not gonna lie, I strongly prefer the Christians who don't obey the Bible (almost every last one of them), but I find it kind of stupid that people expect to be respected for placing their belief system in something which they cannot even thoroughly defend. Any belief system that relies on "faith" is just ridiculous.

It's funny that one can point out the obvious misinterpretations and fabrications in the Bible, and yet we still have Christians making excuses and believing it anyway. We know beyond the shadow of a doubt that the Book of John in particular was not written by any apostle of Christ and was in fact written by an organization referring to itself as the "Universal Church" (the early Catholic Church) - who went around for hundreds of years burning books and killing infidels! People think because the Catholic fabrication of the Bible was changed by protestants that somehow Christianity has corrected itself, but the Bible has always been a collection of programs.

[beldazar]

Thankyou Phildee. Do the majority of christians see it this way?

So really you could say that the 'god' of the NT could also be called 'universal consciousness' as Ive heard it also being just 'love' which is apparently our true state. You couldnt really call the god of the old testament 'love' from what Ive heard.......,...

You make it clearer but I still wouldnt class myself as 'christian'

[michael christopher]

Thankyou Phildee. Do the majority of christians see it this way?

So really you could say that the 'god' of the NT could also be called 'universal consciousness' as Ive heard it also being just 'love' which is apparently our true state. You couldnt really call the god of the old testament 'love' from what Ive heard.......,...

You make it clearer but I still wouldnt class myself as 'christian'

They are distinctly referred to in both the original Greek and even in the modern interpretations. If you see "the Lord God" you are talking about the negative Judeo-Christian alien God, the demi-urge. If you see "the Lord" it is referring to the Singularity. Most die-hard Christians would not be able to point this out to you, however, since they have no idea why they are differentiated and just assume it is referring to the same deity.

EDIT: Coincidentally, most Christians still defend the dark commandments of the "the Lord God" in spite of the archaic mindset that must have created them. Some call for the legal enforcement. Luckily this country doesn't have that many religious nutters, although a few have certainly made their way to this forum.

[dedicate]

Actually, Michael Christopher, I did answer the question. The peson asked directly, "Is it just me?". And I said, "Yes, it is just you." Now maybe you are not happy with the answer, but it was an answer.

Not everybody sees it the way phildee sees it. I see the God of the Ot and NT as the same God. (But I see Allah as the one God, also) There are not two Gods. I think God means -- one without a second. So if there was another God, it wouldn't be God.

[mephibosheth]

I could go on lol but to me back then the old testament was more like a horror story religion has always made me feel uncomfortable but hey maybe its just me ?

Its not just you.

http://www.evilbible.com/

Moreover, I've never heard a Christian claim anything other than that the God of the OT is the Father of Jesus Christ. No body claims that the OT God is the demiurge except modern day would-be gnostics. If this weren't so, then no jew would have ever cared about what Jesus was supposedly preaching, and they would never have called for his execution for blasphemy, since he wouldn't have been talking about anything remotely connected to their religion--it would have been as distinct from Judaism as Greek, Roman, or Celtic religions, and irrelevant to the jews one and all.

8)

[michael christopher]

Actually, Michael Christopher, I did answer the question. The peson asked directly, "Is it just me?". And I said, "Yes, it is just you." Now maybe you are not happy with the answer, but it was an answer.

Not everybody sees it the way phildee sees it. I see the God of the Ot and NT as the same God. (But I see Allah as the one God, also) There are not two Gods. I think God means -- one without a second. So if there was another God, it wouldn't be God.

You don't have to be God to call yourself God. Your reasoning does not resolve fact that God supposedly has MPD or bipolar disorder.

Moreover, I've never heard a Christian claim anything other than that the God of the OT is the Father of Jesus Christ. No body claims that the OT God is the demiurge except modern day would-be gnostics. If this weren't so, then no jew would have ever cared about what Jesus was supposedly preaching, and they would never have called for his execution for blasphemy, since he wouldn't have been talking about anything remotely connected to their religion--it would have been as distinct from Judaism as Greek, Roman, or Celtic religions, and irrelevant to the jews one and all.

They are two different Gods, in the Greek translation they have two different names. In the modern Bible, they have two different titles - the Lord God and the Lord. Look at the difference in personality between these two different deities - they are clearly different entities, if one is even an entity at all (the Lord being the actual Singularity universe, including your higher self). And many Jews raged against what Jesus preached, did you forget that the Sanhedrin had Jesus crucified for the dangerous things he was preaching with the help of the Roman Empire? I think the reason Jesus was killed is because what he was preaching was true (he was NOT preaching what modern-day Christians think he was) and because it not only threatened religious control programs, but all social control programs. Jesus was a huge threat to Judaism, I don't know how you can draw the conclusion that because many people took interest in him that he must have been preaching the same things... He clearly made a differentiation between himself and the God of the old-testament, no matter what Christian revisionists would like to pretend he taught.

[beldazar]

You don't have to be God to call yourself God. Your reasoning does not resolve fact that God supposedly has MPD or bipolar disorder.

hahahahaha, sorry but I found that really funny.......:D

[dedicate]

I am that I am

[eternal_spirit]

What's up with the OT aka the Torah?
Parts of the Talmud are based on Rabbinical interpretaions of OT. Not to mention the 613 laws of Judaism and Noahide laws. EDIT if people follow and live by these rules, then there's far more bad than good IMO

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=730176&postcount=141

[dedicate]

Maybe God gave those laws to a young or less developed people. Now that we are older, we can move on, and don't need so many laws to fly straight? Man was not made for laws, but laws made for man?

It was a good thing though, that God told the early Israelites to copy the Torah -- every jot and tittle . Now we have a most excellent Hebrew Genisis et.el. And Jesus did say, "every jot and tittle".

[michael christopher]

Maybe God gave those laws to a young or less developed people. Now that we are older, we can move on, and don't need so many laws to fly straight? Man was not made for laws, but laws made for man?

It was a good thing though, that God told the early Israelites to copy the Torah -- every jot and tittle . Now we have a most excellent Hebrew Genisis et.el. And Jesus did say, "every jot and tittle".

That really isn't fair, those laws involved killing each other. People want to make that argument, but the truth is that God is not stupid and he is not going to tell us to kill each other one millennium, and love each other the next. That doesn't make any sense. It's another rationalization that really holds no basis and makes no sense. For Christians that are willing to believe that, how are they going to defend a murderer God and then attack the New World Order? What is the difference? They believe they are creating a better world, and are committing evil acts in the name of creating good in the future.

[dedicate]

The ways of God confound the wise.- it is written. (or is it the worldly-wise?). Well anyway, He's not easy to understand.

[1977]

"The letter killeth"--literally.

[michael christopher]

The ways of God confound the wise.- it is written. (or is it the worldly-wise?). Well anyway, He's not easy to understand.

Boy, that is the oldest and most convenient argument in the book to just base a life-altering assumption on.

"God works in mysterious ways, that's why he commands you to kill your children if they disobey you, but then tells you that he is full of love a few verses later!"

Sorry, that doesn't fly with intelligent people. Not to mention the fact that there really is no question that the Bible refers to two specific entities, being the Lord God and the Lord. Why don't Christians bother researching their own religion?

[dedicate]

That's the way it is with you Michael. Everything I'm going to say is going to sound like a "cop out" or a "rationalization" or something else. There is really no way to present the ideas to you when you just dismiss them as rationalizations?! That means the answers don't fit your reality,. you know.

I never said the Bible doesn't refer to two entities. I just stated that the God of the OT was the God of the New Testament. For example, I don't believe Elohim is God, even though it is translated as such. I Am is God. The Prophets were insturments of God. Jahova? I don't know. Could be something other than God... But if he is other than God, then he is not some other God. The Tetragammaton? God.

Elohim is not God. But is translated God. I don't believe the original Hebrews ever believed that Elohim was God. It's just our civilization that places them in the same God.

But yeh,, God said to the Israelites.. Go Kill every man and woman and child in the land that I will give you. Or something like that. Or maybe it was Jehavo that said this. I don't remember. But still, I'm not going to debate about why something 3,000 years ago was done in the name of God. I wasn't there and it was so long ago. I'm just glad that we know anything about anything that happened 3,000 years ago.

But even today,, I can see why God would destroy a nation. He might send an army to beat down some other nation for punishment. But that other nation may be on the recieving end sooner or later, too. This is in the Bible. He sent Tyre to punish Israel, but later he punished Tyre for being so brutal.

You see. YOu don't see. A story: One time i caught my wife cheating on me with another man. I asked God,, "What should I do".. Because of my hardness, I heard, "Kill her.!". But instead of killing her, I let the word rest and found that "Kill her!" was because I was hard. What was really being said was, "Love her> Let her Go!".. Thus I killed her with love. No bloodshed. No-body died. I killed her. she's dead. I'm glad I grew up and became not so hard. She deserves death for what she did, but I don't want the blood on my hands. Love is better.

You see? The God of the old testament was hard because the people were hard. They became so hard that there was nothing God would do with them anymore. Now they are a post-scrip to history.

[michael christopher]

That's the way it is with you Michael. Everything I'm going to say is going to sound like a "cop out" or a "rationalization" or something else. There is really no way to present the ideas to you when you just dismiss them as rationalizations?! That means the answers don't fit your reality,. you know.

I never said the Bible doesn't refer to two entities. I just stated that the God of the OT was the God of the New Testament. For example, I don't believe Elohim is God, even though it is translated as such. I Am is God. The Prophets were insturments of God. Jahova? I don't know. Could be something other than God... But if he is other than God, then he is not some other God. The Tetragammaton? God.

Elohim is not God. But is translated God. I don't believe the original Hebrews ever believed that Elohim was God. It's just our civilization that places them in the same God.

But yeh,, God said to the Israelites.. Go Kill every man and woman and child in the land that I will give you. Or something like that.

I'm sorry, I thought you were equating the Elohim and the Lord God with God. I really apologize for assuming that's the point you were trying to get across.

Yeah, as for "Jehova" I really don't know if it is referring to "the Lord God" or "the Lord" so I really am indifferent to that classification of God.

Once again, I really apologize for the misunderstanding!

[dedicate]

If it is just about that, then yeah. Sometimes the words in the English Bible are translated "God", but it is not God that the word indicates, such as Elohim being translated "God"

[phildee3]

I've never heard a Christian claim anything other than that the God of the OT is the Father of Jesus Christ.



You have now!



No body claims that the OT God is the demiurge except modern day would-be gnostics.



Yes they do -
the ancient real Gnostics who were brutally persecuted by the Roman "Catholics."

[phildee3]

Thankyou Phildee. Do the majority of christians see it this way?

So really you could say that the 'god' of the NT could also be called 'universal consciousness' as Ive heard it also being just 'love' which is apparently our true state. You couldnt really call the god of the old testament 'love' from what Ive heard.......,...

You make it clearer but I still wouldnt class myself as 'christian'



Labels are meaningless - you are what you are.

In fact, most things are not what they are labelled!
If they were, they wouldn't need to be labelled!
Orwellian "doublespeak" has been around alot longer than Orwell...

I see you are in blessed Kernow!
Most of the Cornish saints were of the true (pre-Roman) faith.
They are not difficult to commune with. If you do then they will teach you.

[beldazar]

Thanks for that bit of info Phildee :)

[darkseid]

Bold part, you got directly almost word-for-word from Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion.

That's very bad form, and shows what that you are yet another horrible little internet monkey from Atheistsville with a grudge against people who know better and are smarter than you. Now fuck off.

I like to stress the point that yes it is almost word for word from richard dawkins the god delusion but i feel exactly the same way zero 1 and i feel its somethang that needs to be talk about thanks for the bit about being a internet monkey you make me laugh cheers

[angel wings]

I asked a Christian about this recently although they couldn't supply an answer. The believe its the same god and acknowledge the "attitude" change but feel that god has the right to be "agressive" due to the 1st commandment.

This is why I cannot deal with religion.:rolleyes:

[phildee3]

I asked a Christian about this recently although they couldn't supply an answer. The believe its the same god



That's not a Christian.
That's a Judeo-Christian.



[they] feel that god has the right to be "agressive" due to the 1st commandment.



The Judeo god is agressive - by nature.
The Christian god is totally passive.



This is why I cannot deal with religion.



That is why you can't deal with Judeo-Christianity.
Quite rightly, too.