Help stopping MEAT consumption

[xxadam810xx]

Can i get suggestions or help on how to still feed my body the right nutrients while not eating meat at all?
I think there are some people here that are vegeterian and some in between.
What to eat?
Whats good to substitute meat and not get anemia or stuff like that?

[ethanmya]

I am trying to stop eating meat to myself. I am going to use whey protein powder and a good multi vit/mineral. Also Udos choice oil for a blend of healthy fats. Tastes vile but it is really good for you.

[ayomide]

I am vegatarian.

No Meat!!!! Uhm there are a number of vegatarian cookbooks out there but finding the right one is hard!

A substitute for meat - well there is none - but personally when I stopped eating meat - I had this craving for avocados - I love Avos!!!! Anyway - eat raw fruit and veggies, try a spinach lasagne, veggie oven roast, soup, stir-fries etc .. there is so much you can do - take this time to expand and be creative in the kitchen.

Before you become vegatarian try a 1 week detox just to kick start your new lifestyle.

You only drink freshly squeezed lemon with 1 or 2 teaspoons of organic honey and cayenne pepper with some spring water. drink it when you hungry/thirsty and when you hungry munch on bananas and drink at least 4 litres of water a day with some ice.

Also take a tablespoon of organic apple cider vinegar with a class of warm water every morning for the week.

After your week of cleansing - you will feel postive to start becoming a vegatarian.

Just stock up on fresh fruits, veggies etc - oh and limit your intake of dairy products and eggs. Do not buy any meat or meat products. STAY AWAY

Oh and I recommend books by Queen Afua -

http://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Woman-Healing-Feminine-Spirit/dp/0345434862/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231792242&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/Heal-Thyself-Longevity-Queen-Afua/dp/1886433763/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231792242&sr=1-1

She gives really good advice on everything and if you male I recommend you also read the books.

[echoes_of_a_dream]

I have been vegetarian for 7 years but eat vegan most of the time, I don't call myself a vegan though... some people get hung up on labels... :rolleyes:

It isn't too difficult, look for vegetarian alternatives to the meat products like soya, tofu et al and get a veggie cook book or check out the countless resources online. I find people who worry about not getting enough nutrients on a vegetarian diet are either misinformed or don't have much of an imagination when it comes to preparing food.

Just my 2¢.

Good luck.

[Ratiocinator]

All you need in your diet are foods from the following three groups: Greens (green leafy vegetables), sweet fruits, and fats (nuts, seeds, fatty fruits such as avocados, olives, etc.).

[Ratiocinator]

Some general related links:

http://www.vegan.com/

http://veganhealth.org/

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3979644/Eating_-_2nd_Edition_why_we_eat_like_a_cow_and_die_fast__w atch_w
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=PnO7_2F12p0C&dq=diet+for+a+new+america&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3535662/Diet_for_a_New_America_(why_you_need_to_avoid_eati ng_meat)

The Rawkathon complete series of video interviews:

http://www.rawkathon.com/access/paid/g78kthel783.html

http://www.vegsource.com/

http://www.vegansociety.com/home.php

The New Ethics of Eating (ebook):

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=F99JDN3U

http://home.iae.nl/users/lightnet/health/Earth/Earth.htm

http://www.vegan.org.nz/vegan-m.php

http://www.animal-lib.org.au/lists/vegan/vegan.shtml

http://www.ivu.org/congress/2002/texts/stephen.html

http://www.eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg/ada/hs.xsl/advocacy_933_ENU_HTML.htm

http://www.abolitionist-online.com/

http://www.afa-online.org/veganinfo.html

http://www.goveg.com/naturalhumandiet.asp

http://www.animalliberationfront.com/ALFront/FAQs/Animal%20Rights%20FAQ.htm

http://animalvegfaq.tripod.com/irrefutableargumentlist.html

http://dev.null.org/psychoceramics/archives/1996.03/msg00065.html

http://www.veganline.com/why.htm

http://www.vegansecrets.com/blog/?cat=5

http://www.afa-online.org/quotes.html

http://www.foodsforlife.org.uk/news/20041220/optimum-nutrition-vegan.htm

http://www.bizarro.com/vegan/vegan_why.htm

http://www.universal-life.cc/english/animals/Free_Material_layout.htm

[boots]

Before anyone decides to go Vegan PLEASE read these article's from Vegan advocates.

http://chetday.com/healthgurus.htm

Be sensible about it.

Don't put yourselves out of balance.

.

[boots]

Yes, you are right, animal sources are the only reliable sources of B12. But you eat dairy products. They are from animal sources too, remember! So it seems a lacto vegetarian diet is sufficient.
Last week I got my B12 count checked. It was a little above average, in other words, acceptable. I have not eaten meat since 1968, so my vegetarian diet seems to be working. So 36 years without meat has had no ill effects on my B12.
Here's some information on B12
Introduction
Vitamin B12 is a member of the vitamin B complex. It contains cobalt, and so is also known as cobalamin. It is exclusively synthesised by bacteria and is found primarily in meat, eggs and dairy products.
There has been considerable research into proposed plant sources of vitamin B12. Fermented soya products, seaweeds, and algae such as spirulina have all been suggested as containing significant B12. However, the present consensus is that any B12 present in plant foods is likely to be unavailable to humans and so these foods should not be relied upon as safe sources.
Many vegan foods are supplemented with B12. Vitamin B12 is necessary for the synthesis of red blood cells, the maintenance of the nervous system, and growth and development in children. Deficiency can cause anaemia. Vitamin B12 neuropathy, involving the degeneration of nerve fibres and irreversible neurological damage, can also occur.

[Ratiocinator]

B12 is an invalid argument wrongly used to promote dead animal eating. B12 does occur in plants, as well as the soils they are grown in. It also occurs in insect detritus, their eggs, and in the insects themselves. non-excessively washed vegetables contain these 'contaminants' and is likely one of our original natural sources.

The B12 is not a problem, and far more meat and dairy consumers suffer B12 deficiencies than vegans do. B12 is often used by anti-vegans as a false argument to promote their unhealthy lifestyle and prevent people from bettering themselves and improving their health.

Perhaps the best place on the web for B12 information, discussions, reports, and news, is the B12 section of the Vegan Forum:

http://veganforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30

[boots]

Do not listen to this fascist.

Read the info above in the post I put and become informed.

.

[Ratiocinator]

Do not listen to this fascist.

Read the info above in the post I put and become informed.

.

:rolleyes:

[element]

Can i get suggestions or help on how to still feed my body the right nutrients while not eating meat at all?
I think there are some people here that are vegeterian and some in between.
What to eat?
Whats good to substitute meat and not get anemia or stuff like that?

Do things gradually, go lacto-vegetarian first.... good chance you'll stay there for a while.(I'm still stuck there :D) It's harder to go from vegetarian to vegan, then from meat eater to vegetarian..:rolleyes:

[pinkfreud]

Do things gradually, go lacto-vegetarian first.... good chance you'll stay there for a while.(I'm still stuck there :D) It's harder to go from vegetarian to vegan, then from meat eater to vegetarian..:rolleyes:


good point element :)


and i'm sure the OP can decide what's the best option, rather than have you two slug it out on here too. in the case of B12, again, i personally take ayurvedic spirulina and it works wonders. so if you wish you can consult a dietician before you go ahead and make your choice.

edit: i see in your OP that you're contemplating vegetarianism, rather than veganism. that's good, coz honestly it can be a tad difficult being a vegan. i'm personally against dairy products but raw (that is, not commercially produced and pasteurised) milk, cheese, cottage cheese etc. are much healthier, like boots here ^^^ stated before.

so all the best :)

[ayomide]

Just read the books by Queen Afua - she gives really great advice on eating healthy. Trust me - you will not go wrong.

Also most people think if you stop eating meat - you will not get all the proteins etc required that's a big lie - look at most people who survive on a vegatarian/vegan diet - like the Asians, some Africans and others - they have no problems with thier health.

When you eat meat you take up the dead animals aura and it creates sha energy and it is rather disruptive with your digestive system. When I stopped eating meat I noticed my digestion became better, had more energy and was more positive. So ignore what people say and become vegatarian/vegan.

Meat gets stuck in your gut as our gut is 20 times longer than a carnivores and also we do not have the same acids that a carnivore has and the meat passes through thier body much faster. Also meat has no taste - you need to spice it and cook it so that you can eat it - a carnivore does not eat a burned carcus - it walks away. Also in todays world - you never know what meat you getting - you can even eat a fellow human being. So I'll stick to being herbivore - seeds, nuts, plants all the way!

[gaias child]

Hi there,

I've been mostly raw vegan for over 20 years and I have no B 12 deficiency, it is a myth that it is vegan related, some vegan people do get it, but it is not related to veganism per se but intrinsic factor.

further info on subject http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/vitamins/vitamin-b-12-and-your-diet.html

http://www.roylretreat.com/articles/b12.html

What I eat is lots of green leaves, lettuce nettle dandelion watercress spinach etc. fruit, nuts and seeds including hemp milk and chia seeds which have all amino acids to make hormones. If this isn't enough for you, you can always add sprouted or cooked quinoa or buckwheat.

Some people add raw eggs or dairy occasionally but I have not felt the need yet

[pinkfreud]

Also most people think if you stop eating meat - you will not get all the proteins etc required that's a big lie - look at most people who survive on a vegatarian/vegan diet - like the Asians, some Africans and others - they have no problems with thier health.

When you eat meat you take up the dead animals aura and it creates sha energy and it is rather disruptive with your digestive system. When I stopped eating meat I noticed my digestion became better, had more energy and was more positive. So ignore what people say and become vegatarian/vegan.

Meat gets stuck in your gut as our gut is 20 times longer than a carnivores and also we do not have the same acids that a carnivore has and the meat passes through thier body much faster.

good post JM, i've noticed a very positive change in me too after converting to vegetarianism.

not to mention i poop better :o i feel more in touch with myself on a deeper level, and i'm just basically happier.



but again OP, please weigh your options first before you change your eating habits. don't give up meat if you're not totally convinced, because you'll only want to get back to it. again, do let us know how you're faring :) take care.


Hi there,

I've been mostly raw vegan for over 20 years and I have no B 12 deficiency, it is a myth that it is vegan related, some vegan people do get it, but it is not related to veganism per se but intrinsic factor.

true, a vitamin B12 deficiency is almost always intrinsic- occurring mostly due to disturbances, diseases or interruptions (surgeries etc) in the digestive tract- either the stomach's parietal cells or the small intestine.

also a very good and healthy diet you have there. though i'm still on dairy atm, i don't have much of it.

[cleft_asunder]

Can i get suggestions or help on how to still feed my body the right nutrients while not eating meat at all?
I think there are some people here that are vegeterian and some in between.
What to eat?
Whats good to substitute meat and not get anemia or stuff like that?

It's easy. Just PM Ratiocinator and ask him to get out the whip. Although I doubt he ever puts it away, so nevermind.

[rhydra]

I stopped eating meat in 1989, I'm still alive, healing fast, I don't smoke or drink to excess. You can live without meat, stressing about what will happen to you if you don't eat meat is the only side effect you can have.

As well as that you won't have all those nasty hormones that meat is stuffed with in order to keep the proletariat quiet.

[psych641]

whey protein powder

possible MSG source, dependant on processing techniques.

rice protein might be better (contam wise) although probably not as well balanced a protein if taken alone. Its quite cheap and tasty IIRC.

[psych641]

When you eat meat you take up the dead animals aura .

I have felt this intuitively since childhood :)

[enga]

I'm not a vegetarian yet but have considerably cut down on our familys meat consumption while we get acclimatised to it somewhat. I've found that the Linda Mc Cartney range has some good pies. Quorn do chicken style pieces which are great for curries...lot easier than real meat and no noticeable difference. There are cajun style chicken style pieces for fajitas etc. Vegetarian sausages and bacon are great with no fatty stringy bits. Tesco do fantastic mexican spicy bean burgers and nut cutlets, really nice. Quorn also do a mince meat substitute, I don't mind it but my Darling isn't too keen as he says it is spongy textured.

[cleft_asunder]

When you eat meat you take up the dead animals aura and it creates sha energy and it is rather disruptive with your digestive system.


Oh come on, how do you know? "Intuition," right? That's a word that's almost as corrupt as the word God. Let me guess, you read that somewhere and because it clicks with your belief system, you adopt it as true? Sounds exactly like something angry vegans would invent.

[delamo1999]

B12 is an invalid argument wrongly used to promote dead animal eating. B12 does occur in plants, as well as the soils they are grown in. It also occurs in insect detritus, their eggs, and in the insects themselves. non-excessively washed vegetables contain these 'contaminants' and is likely one of our original natural sources.

The B12 is not a problem, and far more meat and dairy consumers suffer B12 deficiencies than vegans do. B12 is often used by anti-vegans as a false argument to promote their unhealthy lifestyle and prevent people from bettering themselves and improving their health.

Perhaps the best place on the web for B12 information, discussions, reports, and news, is the B12 section of the Vegan Forum:

http://veganforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30


Thank you for posting this as I agree with you. Cows do not make B12; they get it from eating grass. A 1 oz shot of wheatgrass will give you your daily B12 needs.

Another false arguement is that one needs to ingest milk and other dairy products to get their daily calcium needs met. This is wrong. You can get your daily needs met from a cup of leafy greens like Kale or Collard Greens. Also Broccoli provides alot of calcium.

Again the FDA is pushing these false arguements on the masses to keep the meat and dairy business alive.

Also thanks ayomide for your posts.

[cleft_asunder]

Thank you for posting this as I agree with you. Cows do not make B12; they get it from eating grass. A 1 oz shot of wheatgrass will give you your daily B12 needs.

Another false arguement is that one needs to ingest milk and other dairy products to get their daily calcium needs met. This is wrong. You can get your daily needs met from a cup of leafy greens like Kale or Collard Greens. Also Broccoli provides alot of calcium.

Again the FDA is pushing these false arguements on the masses to keep the meat and dairy business alive.

Also thanks ayomide for your posts.



Right right. Eating grass and eating meat are exactly the same thing. I can just see you bent over grazing on the land. I used to drink wheat grass, and it did nothing for me. I never felt full or energized after drinking it, neither freshly squeezed store-bought stuff nor what I grew. I even have a book on wheat grass and how it's a super-food. All the claims it makes are outrageous to say the least. Oh and the sweetness is aweful disgusting.

How embarassing, to eat grass. The Illuminati love implanting these absurd foods and diets, and we gobble it up.

Meat, particularly red meat like beef, is one of the most full foods you can eat. It is nothing like vegetables or grass or any other food. It is in itself its own thing.

[branjo]

Oh come on, how do you know? "Intuition," right? That's a word that's almost as corrupt as the word God. Let me guess, you read that somewhere and because it clicks with your belief system, you adopt it as true? Sounds exactly like something angry vegans would invent.

And how do you know it isn't exactly 100% true either, in fact how do you know that there is such a thing as the Illuminati? you don't, you are just repeating what others are telling you too, people in glass houses my friend.

With regards to the OP

Im teetering on the edge of stopping eating meat myself. I am starting to feel bad for the little guys that are getting slaughtered not so I can survive but so I can have a particular taste in my mouth.

The world is obsessive about flavour not nutrients, I have been trying to spark my 6 year old into not liking meat by saying we really only eat the babies of animals cause they taste better, its an underhanded tactic but I think the end does justify the means.

I feel angry when people are telling me not to eat what I want to eat but that anger probably comes from the aggression of eating dead animals. Once you look at something and realize it has something you want, your ethics can be quite literally pushed to the side and ignored. A population only eating sustainable vegetation is probably a very spiritually balanced population.

I mean we don't have to kill an apple tree to enjoy apples, so there is no bad karma in eating the apple as it was going to fall anyway.

Unless you are a hardcore farmer or slaughter house employee or someone on the brink of starvation, I would say there is not another living soul on this earth that could look at a lamb, kill it, cook it and eat it without an immense sense of guilt.

I find myself excusing my meat addiction like "well it was dead anyway so I might as well eat it" this is a pretty lame excuse but im sure a lot of people excuse it that way too.

Others give that bullshit theory pointing to their "Canine teeth" and saying look we are suppose to eat meat these teeth are for tearing meat, Its a pointy tooth for christ sake its useful for opening beer bottles too...lol.

I have to admit though I have used the comeback line about eating cows as "if we didn't eat them they would go extinct" and "If you really wanted to breed more panda's then lets start eating them and charge a fortune for the meal, I bet someone would find a way to get them to breed more often", terrible I know but probably true.

Anyway what I would need is a shopping list of non meat and non crap foods to try and see what happens. Most of the Organically labeled food on your supermarket shelves only has to pass 2 or 3 regulations to be classed as organic anyway.

So if there is a reputable food company left out there with an ethical back bone, I would like to hear about it. I am already starting to gather resources to grow some stuff of my own but in the meantime I am open to the possibility of a food change.

[cleft_asunder]

And how do you know it isn't exactly 100% true either, in fact how do you know that there is such a thing as the Illuminati? you don't, you are just repeating what others are telling you too, people in glass houses my friend.

With regards to the OP

Im teetering on the edge of stopping eating meat myself. I am starting to feel bad for the little guys that are getting slaughtered not so I can survive but so I can have a particular taste in my mouth.

The world is obsessive about flavour not nutrients, I have been trying to spark my 6 year old into not liking meat by saying we really only eat the babies of animals cause they taste better, its an underhanded tactic but I think the end does justify the means.

You sound evil when you talk. You remind me of parents who teach their kids about Jesus and why he's our saviour, when in fact the child is defenseless intellectually and will adopt any religion or belief the parents preach.

Other than that, for over 9000 years the native americans hunted animals here in the united states, and when they killed an animal they gave respect and thanks to it and the great spirit. They were connected with nature and knew what they were doing. It wasn't a mistake they ate meat, it was the proper way.

[branjo]

You sound evil when you talk. You remind me of parents who teach their kids about Jesus and why he's our saviour, when in fact the child is defenseless intellectually and will adopt any religion or belief the parents preach.

Other than that, for over 9000 years the native americans hunted animals here in the united states, and when they killed an animal they gave respect and thanks to it and the great spirit. They were connected with nature and knew what they were doing. It wasn't a mistake they ate meat, it was the proper way.

Case in point, the word "was" being the smartest word in your whole statement.

Your just sore that the statement of yours that I quoted was a pretty lame attempt at you putting yourself over the knowledge of another so that's what you got in return, like I said "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".

The Native Americans were no more perfect than the conquering hordes that stole their land. They slaughtered each other every bit as much as those that came here did.

You think just because someone says thanks after they kill something its ok?, you say I am "evil" and just the same as those that speak to children about Jesus, well doesn't every one who believes in Jesus say "grace" at dinner time and thank "God" for the meal in front of them? There is no difference.

Here is the deal about "Parents" If you are one and by your statement it appears that you are not, you can raise your kids how "You" see fit, neither you nor anyone else on this planet has the right to tell another how to raise their kids. iI you want to live in a society like that then take your pick of any fascist country you like and go and live there in peace.

Until you learn that your opinions matter ultimately only to yourself your never going to grow up. And if you are already are an "adult" then it looks like you have chosen your path, and its never to late to stop doing the job of those you feel above you by spreading the negativity they give you.

You speak of "Intuition" like its a dirty word, is that because you don't possess any of your own or you are jealous of the people that find peace knowing that "Intuition" is more important than the doubtful mind itself.

It seems to me your still at that stage where you think the "Illuminati" is the reason why your unhappy, when in fact the blame lies squarely at your own feet, only sheep bitch and whine about those that oppress them when the rest of us pay no attention to unjust laws and absurdities in life, we do what we "feel" is right. Maybe you have no more strength left to heal yourself or those around you and you probably hate that. Maybe your only comfort is knowing that there are other people as misguided as you and you probably look at those as your only friends when in fact they have no idea you exist other than a few words left on website.

I have been alive "it seems" a lot longer than you and I have witnessed first hand what someone dying and being killed looks like. So before you go accusing people of evil deeds you need to know what it is your talking about.

Your damn right disrespectful remark at someone voicing their opinion that life should be respected and left to live is what made me devote the first section of my first post in this thread to you.

And just for the record, I teach my son about spirituality NOT religion, to me they are nothing alike. He and other children are not as easily duped into believing just anything.

Your pretty little bold section of my post that you thought explained something that you could focus on is actually true, The meat from the young animal is preferred to that of its parents, now tell me what isn't evil about eating the infants of any living thing? wait while I hold my breath.

[ethanmya]

possible MSG source, dependant on processing techniques.

rice protein might be better (contam wise) although probably not as well balanced a protein if taken alone. Its quite cheap and tasty IIRC.

There is a protein powder you can buy from a company called Reflex. It is called natural whey and there is no aspartame etc in it.

[breezinreezin]

Im teetering on the edge of stopping eating meat myself. I am starting to feel bad for the little guys that are getting slaughtered not so I can survive but so I can have a particular taste in my mouth.


This is a place I come to from time to time. I'm a sucker for bargain, but I did put down some bacon I saw discounted yesterday, because I didn't know it's provenance. I've been buying a lot of game lately, if only because the critters were living a good life until "bang¬", it ended.

[cleft_asunder]

The Native Americans were no more perfect than the conquering hordes that stole their land.

I stopped reading there. Study history please. The book Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee would be a good start. Also, study Shamanism and Medicine Men who all communicate with plants and also animals. The natives lived in perfect harmony with nature, not only physically but spiritually, and still do.

Thanks, good game. No more talk 4 u n00b.

[element]

I stopped reading there. Study history please. The book Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee would be a good start. Also, study Shamanism and Medicine Men who all communicate with plants and also animals. The natives lived in perfect harmony with nature, not only physically but spiritually.

Thanks, good game. No more talk 4 u.

LoL!!!

Do you really believe all the native Americans were totally great and happy bunnies, playing around with the wolves?
There could have been peaceful tribes, but so aswell the opposite. Afterall, they were still human!!!
What comes around goes around.

To think the native Americans were all happy chaps playing with the squirrel is New Age!

If they were so peaceful, why did their good vibrations allow warlike europeans to come..? :confused:

[northern_light]

I would strongly recommend to stay away from the fake, processed stuff. No meat replacements(lol) or soy products. Stick with the basics: Eat a lot of fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds. There's a lot of different foods to choose from, be sure to have variation in your meny. Some of my favorites are spinach, broccoli, avocados, pears, oranges, bananas, para nuts and walnuts, pumpkin seeds and cauliflower (A lot of fiber, amino acids, tons of minerals, vitamins and healthy fats). Try to eat at least 1/3 of your vegetables raw. As with any diet, it is wise to take high quality multi-vitamins and fatty acids. Udos Choice is a good one(omega 3, 6 and 9). If you want to add mass, simply eat more.

Do not be scared of old myths and scare tactics perpetuated by the big pharma, the animal industry and traditionalists. If you eat good quality and a reasonable quantity, there is just no way you are getting sick from your diet(if you do it right you will rarely get sick at all), and even if you look past the amino acids you are getting from the enzymes, you will still get enough protein without making a special effort, no need for protein supplements. Be sure to research the subject for yourself and find the foods that suits you best. Just my personal advice, based on experience. Take care.

[cleft_asunder]

LoL!!!

Do you really believe all the native Americans were totally great and happy bunnies, playing around with the wolves?
There could have been peaceful tribes, but so aswell the opposite. Afterall, they were still human!!!
What comes around goes around.

To think the native Americans were all happy chaps playing with the squirrel is New Age!

If they were so peaceful, why did their good vibrations allow warlike europeans to come..? :confused:

For 9000 years they were in harmony with nature, and at the end of that 9000 years nature was still preserved. It was a paradise until the Spanish set foot on it. Their way of life made so much sense, that they didn't understand the concept of property ownership. And given their expertice, it would be commical if these Spainiards suggested to them that eating meat is wrong. What more needs to be said? Barbaric hoards, huh? The stereotypical label is savages btw.

And what you wrote, I honestly don't see what your point is. Nature is perfect in terms of duality. It is good and evil.

[element]

For 9000 years they were in harmony with nature, and at the end of that 9000 years nature was still preserved. It was a paradise until the Spanish set foot on it. Their way of life made so much sense, that they didn't understand the concept of property ownership. And given their expertice, it would be commical if these Spainiards suggested to them that eating meat is wrong. What more needs to be said? Barbaric hoards, huh? The stereotypical label is savages btw.


You don't know whether they lived for ''9000'' years in harmony. Your speculating, no book on earth can tell you that they did. 9000 years? Show archeological evidence of every year starting from 9000 years ago.:D
Btw. many tribes lived in climates with cold winters. Ofcourse they ate meat!!
What you are doing, is turning the 'evil Spaniards' to be vegetarians, to twist things. Spaniards have always been quite the meat eaters, if you've ever been to Spain you should know. ;)

[cleft_asunder]

You don't know whether they lived for ''9000'' years in harmony. Your speculating, no book on earth can tell you that they did. 9000 years? Show archeological evidence of every year starting from 9000 years ago.:D
Btw. many tribes lived in climates with cold winters. Ofcourse they ate meat!!
What you are doing, is turning the 'evil Spaniards' to be vegetarians, to twist things. Spaniards have always been quite the meat eaters, if you've ever been to Spain you should know. ;)

I never said the Spanish are vegetarians.

[boots]

LoL!!!

Do you really believe all the native Americans were totally great and happy bunnies, playing around with the wolves?
There could have been peaceful tribes, but so aswell the opposite. Afterall, they were still human!!!
What comes around goes around.

To think the native Americans were all happy chaps playing with the squirrel is New Age!

If they were so peaceful, why did their good vibrations allow warlike europeans to come..? :confused:


I see how you twist thing around:rolleyes: or that you just totally ignorant and haven't a glue what you are on about.


Whos said they were all happy and playing with fairies. That's just your way of twisting it around.

The point is FF they were in balance and harmony with nature and believed everyone had the right to exist even on their land which they were custodians off.

.

[boots]

You don't know whether they lived for ''9000'' years in harmony. Your speculating, no book on earth can tell you that they did. 9000 years? Show archeological evidence of every year starting from 9000 years ago.:D
Btw. many tribes lived in climates with cold winters. Ofcourse they ate meat!!
What you are doing, is turning the 'evil Spaniards' to be vegetarians, to twist things. Spaniards have always been quite the meat eaters, if you've ever been to Spain you should know. ;)


Archeological evidence of the Hopi found in Choc Canyon date back to the arrival there at around 10.000 years FYI.:D:rolleyes:

By GEORGE JOHNSON (http://sciwrite.org/glj/index.html)

Dr. Robson Bonnichsen, director of the Center for the Study of the First Americans at Oregon State University in Corvallis, was excavating a 10,000-year-old archeological site in southwestern Montana several years ago when his team discovered that the area was littered with ancient human hairs. The archeologists realized with some excitement that the hairs' DNA content could be studied for clues about the origins of the prehistoric people who once lived there.


Turning Spaniards into evil vegetarians LOL Pathetic attempt to twist logic.

The point being is that every different region of the world has variation in degrees of plant and animal life that are in balance suited to that climate and zone. The people on this earth eat what they like and what they think is good for them, be it meat or just plain vegetables. Who are Vegans and vegetarian to dictate what the diversity of people should and shouldn't eat. What gives you the right to put things out of balance.

.

[cleft_asunder]

Archeological evidence of the Hopi found in Choc Canyon date back to the arrival there at around 10.000 years FYI.:D:rolleyes:

By GEORGE JOHNSON (http://sciwrite.org/glj/index.html)

Dr. Robson Bonnichsen, director of the Center for the Study of the First Americans at Oregon State University in Corvallis, was excavating a 10,000-year-old archeological site in southwestern Montana several years ago when his team discovered that the area was littered with ancient human hairs. The archeologists realized with some excitement that the hairs' DNA content could be studied for clues about the origins of the prehistoric people who once lived there.


Turning Spaniards into evil vegetarians LOL Pathetic attempt to twist logic.

The point being is that every different region of the world has variation in degrees of plant and animal life that are in balance suited to that climate and zone. The people on this earth eat what they like and what they think is good for them, be it meat or just plain vegetables. Who are Vegans and vegetarian to dictate what the diversity of people should and shouldn't eat. What gives you the right to put things out of balance.

.

You wrote:

Who are Vegans and vegetarian to dictate what the diversity of people should and shouldn't eat. What gives you the right to put things out of balance.

Well that's my point. They have the audacity to argue that vegetarianism is some sort of step forward in evolution. Evolution doesn't happen that fast in terms of micro-evolution. (ie: Small changes to a species, such as growing hair) The Native American way of life started to end in the 1500's, which is like a minute ago in terms of evolution. So to suggest that the diet of Andiginous tribes is the old way of things and is no longer relevant is absurd.

[boots]

You wrote:



Well that's my point. They have the audacity to argue that vegetarianism is some sort of step forward in evolution. Evolution doesn't happen that fast in terms of micro-evolution. (ie: Small changes to a species, such as growing hair) The Native American way of life started to end in the 1500's, which is like a minute ago in terms of evolution. So to suggest that the diet of Andiginous tribes is the old way of things and is no longer relevant is absurd.

True. These people were in balance as were a lot of native people. They managed their environment's. Were in balance with the food chain and didn't have ism's to push on to people.

I say it again:rolleyes: Enjoy what you eat, give thanks to what sustains you. Dont go calling people who eat meat, murder's or dead flesh eater's or saying we are putting thinks out of balance because some eat meat.

.

.

[branjo]

I stopped reading there. Study history please. The book Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee would be a good start. Also, study Shamanism and Medicine Men who all communicate with plants and also animals. The natives lived in perfect harmony with nature, not only physically but spiritually, and still do.

Thanks, good game. No more talk 4 u n00b.

You say you stopped reading there because of your inability to see another point of view other than your own misinformed, misguided and undereducated one you are currently trying to defend. Like your views on the big bad Illuminati, you live and breath fear sunshine, and you know what if someone wants to eat wheat grass its none of your business to say it won't work, didn't you state you used to take it and grow it yourself, so how would you feel if someone had said the same thing you are doing now to people who "Want" to do something with their own life.

No one is debating the sincerity or peaceful nature of the Native American tribes, but claiming they were perfect is the dumbest thing you have said to date. They are no older or more important or wiser that those in EVERY other culture on the planet, African, Russian, Peruvian, Guatemalan, Mexican or Canadian etc etc. You have obviously seen "dancing with wolves" wayyy to many times.

And before you try and educate us in your own "special" way about Shamanism, Don't bother, its something I have dabbled in it for nearly 20 years now, unlike you who probably took acid at a party and a couple of books later you're Big Chief Talking Shit.

Its something that can't be learned from a book, it takes courage and faith and a lot of understanding about any and all life. Its not all drums and rattles and hey presto your enlightened, its about respect and compassion for all dimensional aspects of creation, and that includes your own culture and those around you too.

You scowl about people believing in God and you have the nerve to talk about the "great spirit" WTF do you think people are talking about when they say God or Creation? A big white haired, white bearded Caucasian man sitting on a cloud? I bet you probably do too. All cultures even our own have shamanic practices, they had to be hidden just like those of indigenous cultures for sake survival.

If you honestly think its "Ethical" to take the life of anything for food when there is an abundance of sustainable food on this planet then I won't even try any further to educate you on the subject on the "Right of all life". Your ignorance speaks volumes about the state of your consciousness.

Let me add I still eat meat for now and I don't care if you do or don't but don't tell anyone that spiritual evolution has nothing to do with respecting ALL life on this planet, because you would be wrong every single time.

Think about this one then Einstein, If the meat you say you need to survive is "vegetarian" in nature then WTF does that tell you???

Plus the meat you are eating now is full of all sorts of chemicals, hormones and infections from other animals that get ground up and used as food for the living ones.

Ask any indigenous tribe to eat the meat that the average human is expected to eat, and in their own "natural peace loving way" they will tell you to "fuck off, its poison, I'll stick with the berries and vegetables".

This is why I don't like conversing with a kid who is probably not even old enough to shave, but full of opinions and bullshit.

BTW I am still laughing at this statement of
How embarassing, to eat grass. The Illuminati love implanting these absurd foods and diets, and we gobble it up.
Man if I was the kind of person to have a ridiculous little attempt at wisdom under my every post that one would surely get a few giggles.

[pinkfreud]

Can i get suggestions or help on how to still feed my body the right nutrients while not eating meat at all?
I think there are some people here that are vegeterian and some in between.
What to eat?
Whats good to substitute meat and not get anemia or stuff like that?

^^^^^

kindly see the OP's post.

the OP has not asked people to help determine which is healthier; what has merely been asked is what alternatives/substitutes can be derived from a primarily plant based diet- after he/she has has already made the mind up and decided to switch from meat eating, for whatever reason.

sh*t, this is sick. as if people like ratiocinator weren't enough to get flustered over other people's choices, we have people like cleft and boots (sorry, you know i lub you) who get frustrated and impose their way on the OP.

for chrissake, stop already. this isn't a veg vs. non veg thread. that thread is here http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39909

so vegans/vegetarians, please stop giving others reason to believe you're the stereotypical angry, crazy animal rights enthusiast; and meat eaters, stop giving the veggies reason to believe you'll are an overly aggressive lot.


I would strongly recommend to stay away from the fake, processed stuff. No meat replacements(lol) or soy products. Stick with the basics: Eat a lot of fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds. There's a lot of different foods to choose from, be sure to have variation in your meny. Some of my favorites are spinach, broccoli, avocados, pears, oranges, bananas, para nuts and walnuts, pumpkin seeds and cauliflower (A lot of fiber, amino acids, tons of minerals, vitamins and healthy fats). Try to eat at least 1/3 of your vegetables raw. As with any diet, it is wise to take high quality multi-vitamins and fatty acids. Udos Choice is a good one(omega 3, 6 and 9). If you want to add mass, simply eat more.

Do not be scared of old myths and scare tactics perpetuated by the big pharma, the animal industry and traditionalists. If you eat good quality and a reasonable quantity, there is just no way you are getting sick from your diet(if you do it right you will rarely get sick at all), and even if you look past the amino acids you are getting from the enzymes, you will still get enough protein without making a special effort, no need for protein supplements. Be sure to research the subject for yourself and find the foods that suits you best. Just my personal advice, based on experience. Take care.


well THANK YOU for that post northern light. now if only the people on here could give suggestions that aren't laced with anger.





fankoo. and sorry for ranting.

[element]

The point being is that every different region of the world has variation in degrees of plant and animal life that are in balance suited to that climate and zone. The people on this earth eat what they like and what they think is good for them, be it meat or just plain vegetables. Who are Vegans and vegetarian to dictate what the diversity of people should and shouldn't eat. What gives you the right to put things out of balance.

.

Where did I say people are not free to choose? The thing is, many tribes take from the earth whats needed and not more. Can you say the same thing about our current system of meat industry?

I am speaking for those who can't. What is your right to even talk to me? :D:p

[element]

You wrote:



Well that's my point. They have the audacity to argue that vegetarianism is some sort of step forward in evolution. Evolution doesn't happen that fast in terms of micro-evolution. (ie: Small changes to a species, such as growing hair) The Native American way of life started to end in the 1500's, which is like a minute ago in terms of evolution. So to suggest that the diet of Andiginous tribes is the old way of things and is no longer relevant is absurd.

Ok, so from the start this planet was here everything was already there. All species, dinosaurs, mammals, reptiles, fishes etc. Everything at the same time I guess.... I think macro-evolution is true, when spirit evolves further, matter evolves simultaneously. There were giants in the past, and they were ''us'', humanoid.. We just changed because of diets aswell!

How will you explain the fact mammals are more social and live longer then bugs?
How will you explain the fact mammals are very intelligent compared to other species?


9000 years of peace and harmony....show the facts...I'm waiting.
7000bc, 6500bc, 6000bc and so on..., forgetting about the years in between. It's a big statement to say they have always been peaceful. No, it's impossible and false! Why did they attract negativity? Surely, if all things are ''connected'', then law of attraction must be true!

[cleft_asunder]

Ok, so from the start this planet was here everything was already there. All species, dinosaurs, mammals, reptiles, fishes etc. Everything at the same time I guess.... I think macro-evolution is true, when spirit evolves further, matter evolves simultaneously. There were giants in the past, and they were ''us'', humanoid.. We just changed because of diets aswell!

How will you explain the fact mammals are more social and live longer then bugs?
How will you explain the fact mammals are very intelligent compared to other species?


9000 years of peace and harmony....show the facts...I'm waiting.
7000bc, 6500bc, 6000bc and so on..., forgetting about the years in between. It's a big statement to say they have always been peaceful. No, it's impossible and false! Why did they attract negativity? Surely, if all things are ''connected'', then law of attraction must be true!

Ummm, I never said they never went into battle. That's something you seem to be pressing on me for some reason. They were mostly peaceful however. According to Columbus, they treated their neighbors (other tribes) like their friends, but I've read that they also made war with other tribes.

I have absolutely no idea what your point is though. Our nature system has war integrated into it.

[element]

For 9000 years they were in harmony with nature

I see in harmony with nature, also as being peaceful with other human beings. No wars etc.! :)
So in my opinion 9000 years of harmony is not true. But who gives a donkeys, this is pointless!!!!
I hope it's clear as water now.

[cleft_asunder]

I see in harmony with nature, also as being peaceful with other human beings. No wars etc.! :)
So in my opinion 9000 years of harmony is not true. But who gives a donkeys, this is pointless!!!!
I hope it's clear as water now.

You seem to have a silly idea of what nature is and how it works, or perhaps you are living on another planet with a completely different set of rules. Because here, living in harmony with nature partly means blood, suffering, death, and fear. That's part of the circle of life. That's what makes it complete. One animal preying upon the other. Scavengers feeding on a corpse that was killed by a pack of wolves.

The native americans lived perfectly within that system as evidenced by the fact that it was presevered perfectly for over 9000 years. I need to say nothing more on this. No one disputes the fact that Native Americans have been living here for over 9,000 years, you are the first one.

[element]

The native americans lived perfectly within that system as evidenced by the fact that it was presevered perfectly for over 9000 years. I need to say nothing more on this. No one disputes the fact that Native Americans have been living here for over 9,000 years, you are the first one.
I'm not saying they have not lived there for 9000 years.
Being in harmony with nature means killing other tribes??

Still waiting for evidence of peaceful times for ''9000'' years............................................. ............ :p
And to rephrase my question: ''Why did they attract negativity? Surely, if all things are ''connected'', then law of attraction must be true! ''

[cleft_asunder]

I'm not saying they have not lived there for 9000 years.
Being in harmony with nature means killing other tribes??

Still waiting for evidence of peaceful times for ''9000'' years............................................. ............ :p
And to rephrase my question: ''Why did they attract negativity? Surely, if all things are ''connected'', then law of attraction must be true! ''

Where do you keep getting the peacful times thing? In comparison to us, they were peaceful, that's for sure.

And what is up with your law of attraction thing? You make it far too simplistic, for starters. You are assuming they have done something extremely bad those 10,000 years, and they payed the price for it. That's karma not law of attraction. Just because you're a genuinly good and spiritual person in Gaza, doesn't mean a bomb won't fall on your school. Stop beating around the bush and make a concrete point.

[delamo1999]

right right. Eating grass and eating meat are exactly the same thing. I can just see you bent over grazing on the land. I used to drink wheat grass, and it did nothing for me. I never felt full or energized after drinking it, neither freshly squeezed store-bought stuff nor what i grew. I even have a book on wheat grass and how it's a super-food. All the claims it makes are outrageous to say the least. Oh and the sweetness is aweful disgusting.

How embarassing, to eat grass. The illuminati love implanting these absurd foods and diets, and we gobble it up.

Meat, particularly red meat like beef, is one of the most full foods you can eat. It is nothing like vegetables or grass or any other food. It is in itself its own thing.



ROTFLMAO :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[novymir]

The Premises are false because the Principles are in Error, therefore the Conclusions are Spurious. Or, how they have enslaved us with atrocious carnality.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8506668136396723343&ei=Mml4ScDfJaDM-gGP3eS2BQ&q=new+biology+bruce+lipton&hl=en

[raquel]

i stopped eating meat for almost a year and i lost alot of weight and looked skinny and gaunt, (I felt on a higher level as well , some things changed , my sense of smell was stronger , i noticed some people had a bad metallic smell to them! And my skin was luminous. but the sensitivity to other peoples thoughts i could feel them very strongly , it was very distracting. .:() i even tried eating nuts and beans and stuff to make up for it. I tried started to eat some fish sometimes or chicken and i have gained weight and muscle back, i look healthier. but i wish i knew a way to be muscular on a vegan diet-which i was on. anyone know?

[northern_light]

i stopped eating meat for almost a year and i lost alot of weight and looked skinny and gaunt, (I felt on a higher level as well , some things changed , my sense of smell was stronger , i noticed some people had a bad metallic smell to them! And my skin was luminous. but the sensitivity to other peoples thoughts i could feel them very strongly , it was very distracting. .:() i even tried eating nuts and beans and stuff to make up for it. I tried started to eat some fish sometimes or chicken and i have gained weight and muscle back, i look healthier. but i wish i knew a way to be muscular on a vegan diet-which i was on. anyone know?

Sounds like you didn't consume enough calories. Be sure to make your diet varied, and eat more. Simply put, if you consume more (quality) calories than you use, you will not lose weight. Keep working out and get good rest afterwards, and you will gain muscle as well.

[red_ram]

Can i get suggestions or help on how to still feed my body the right nutrients while not eating meat at all?
I think there are some people here that are vegeterian and some in between.
What to eat?
Whats good to substitute meat and not get anemia or stuff like that?

You should be able to get everything you need from vegetables, nuts and dairy products. Bear in mind however that everyone's body functions at its best on a different diet unique to them, so some experimentation is recommended.

[red_ram]

i stopped eating meat for almost a year and i lost alot of weight and looked skinny and gaunt, (I felt on a higher level as well , some things changed , my sense of smell was stronger , i noticed some people had a bad metallic smell to them! And my skin was luminous. but the sensitivity to other peoples thoughts i could feel them very strongly , it was very distracting. .:() i even tried eating nuts and beans and stuff to make up for it. I tried started to eat some fish sometimes or chicken and i have gained weight and muscle back, i look healthier. but i wish i knew a way to be muscular on a vegan diet-which i was on. anyone know?

On the numerous anti-meat-eating debates raging on this board, you will find pics of bodybuilders who are bulging, ripped and vegan.

At the core level, though, it's your mind that controls your body's shape and form more than anything else. I should know.

[cafetimes1991]

I became vegetarian (shortly) after watching Fast Food Nation on September 11th... 2007.
You can get all the amino acids you need from almonds and bananas, I believe.

[lightblessins]

i personally blame the medical sociey for creating the myth surronding the idea that if you stop eating meat you are cutting out a huge part of your nutrition and leaving yourself more unhealthy. i get so bored of poeple saying where to u get protein from? i bet your ill quite alot more, your kids will av birth defects etc etc.... its all a lie to keep poeple eating meat and there fore keep their soul viberation low making them more easy to control, its crap your human body is much more healthy when you stop eating meat. of course you av to make sure you eat the right foods every1 does its part of being healthy, weather ur a vege or not. peace my poeple light to u all:)

[Ratiocinator]

http://karmafreecooking.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/protein-cartoon.gif

[Ratiocinator]

While I'm at it:

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/dre0589l.jpg

http://inslide.com/BzAnimalRightsCartoon13.jpg

http://artnexus.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/madcow_550x490.jpg

[Ratiocinator]

http://goneforeverweightloss.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/honestfoodlabels.jpg

[Ratiocinator]

http://fashiontribes.typepad.com/main/images/meet_your_meat.jpg

[element]

I like those! :D
Funny and truthful.

[cafetimes1991]

Thanks for posting these cartoons, Ratiocinator! :)
And good post, lightblessins. :)

[lightblessins]

i love the one about protein! so so funny!:D ty!!!!!!

[cleft_asunder]

Rat, isn't it interesting how you post those comics even though there's no one disagreeing with you? That is to say, you're just preaching to the quire, yet you post them any way? This suggests that you love making fun of meat eaters, and as youv'e shown in the other thread, you have a superiority complex. You have a habbit of betraying yourself, and you're so transparent regardless.

[pinkfreud]

Rat, isn't it interesting how you post those comics even though there's no one disagreeing with you? That is to say, you're just preaching to the quire, yet you post them any way? This suggests that you love making fun of meat eaters, and as youv'e shown in the other thread, you have a superiority complex. You have a habbit of betraying yourself, and you're so transparent regardless.


that would apply to you as well.

works both ways.

and cafetimes, you're right about bananas and almonds. sprouts have lots of amino acids too :)

[cleft_asunder]

that would apply to you as well.

works both ways.

and cafetimes, you're right about bananas and almonds. sprouts have lots of amino acids too :)

You know, you're really sexy when you're mad.

[_invisibleplane_]

I've switched between vegetarian and meat based eating styles several times...for the last few years it's only been chicken and fish if anything though, anyways here are my fav foods I've found that are alternatives to meat/protein/b vitamins/omega/fats

Spirulina (twice a day everyday!!!), Hemp seed, Flax seed, Almonds/pumpkin/sunflower seeds/, various sprouts, chick peas/beans, eggs, hemp/coconut oil,

being creative with stirfries and smoothies is key, and carry a bag full of trailmix with you wherever you go

To me this is the ultimate argument that I still struggle with, is free will a universal law? if so are we not violating an animals free will by particular hunting/farming methods? Does sustainable meat consumption make it more permissible?... Can we consider the idea of liberating these animals by being thankful and giving blessings to have a better/higher life in its next incarnation? ......Can we justify meat eating through the food cycle and our role in keeping ecosystems/populations in check? How would we react to the idea of being food of another group of beings that may consider themselves higher up on the food chain and keeping our population in check..isn't that the same logic? tough questions tough answers

[drael]

If ur happy to have dairy, your at an advantage. As a vegetarian theres certain things u need for protein, iron etc, like legumes, spinach etc. You get good fats and EFA's from nuts, avocados etc. Theres also decent protein and also some brain nutrients in dairy products. (Sourcing the brain nutrients if u dont eat dairy is a little more complex, but doable)...

So some "leafy" type things ull need more of, and also more nuts, and regular dairy will help balance both body nutrition and brain nutrition. Avocados and bananas also have tryptophan if ur not big on dairy(They are the only vegan sources of this vital neurotransmitter), and nuts inositol, and grains dopamine for your basic brain precursor nutrients. Those are the main brain ones....Brown rice also has gaba, which is a calming transmitter (if u tend to be anxious).

Theres a certain irrational passion for this topic, but i would advise just following sensible nutritional guidelines. Nutrition is quite complex, but the basics like iron/protein and fats/EFAs arent too hard to follow...

[element]

If ur happy to have dairy, your at an advantage. As a vegetarian theres certain things u need for protein, iron etc, like legumes, spinach etc. You get good fats and EFA's from nuts, avocados etc. Theres also decent protein and also some brain nutrients in dairy products. (Sourcing the brain nutrients if u dont eat dairy is a little more complex, but doable)...

So some "leafy" type things ull need more of, and also more nuts, and regular dairy will help balance both body nutrition and brain nutrition. Avocados and bananas also have tryptophan if ur not big on dairy(They are the only vegan sources of this vital neurotransmitter), and nuts inositol, and grains dopamine for your basic brain precursor nutrients. Those are the main brain ones....Brown rice also has gaba, which is a calming transmitter (if u tend to be anxious).

Theres a certain irrational passion for this topic, but i would advise just following sensible nutritional guidelines. Nutrition is quite complex, but the basics like iron/protein and fats/EFAs arent too hard to follow...

I think your quite right. Nuts for example are very important. I think it can be hard without dairy, but I'm not a vegan so can't really tell...:p

[branjo]

Well I just thought I would dig up this thread to let you know that I have actually consciously stopped eating meat. For about 2 weeks now I have been eating those Boca Burgers and other Soy stuff and between a bun they seem absolutely no different to a burger, infact I'd take one over a big mac any day, assuming I had no idea of the crap that was in a big mac of course, there is no difference. The texture is just the same, even the non chicken, chicken stuff still tastes and looks like the texture of chicken...lol.

Walking past the meat counter in the supermarket still caught my eye, but looking at meat now, not as dead animal, but dead animal with god knows what else in it, its easier to think of the impurities and chemicals instead of it being an actual food, and that some infant animal had to be slaughtered for it too.

I bought a tons of fresh vegies too, So the wife is a pretty damn good cook and has been buying cook books left and right, to help me out. My son on the other hand thinks meatless food tastes like ass, but I think that was my fault for giving him that impression when I was too stubborn to even try not to eat meat.

I am still eating Dairy though, I excuse it by telling myself nothing died to produce it.

Anyway I don't feel as ravenous any more when I think of food and I don't feel as drained in the mornings. :)

[glacidtek]

I'v been vegie on and off for ages... and seriously for a few years.

Rather than using mince for a dish (say lasagna, chilli, etc), I use a combination of beans and lentils - mung beans, moth beans, black-eyes, all colours of lentils..... and more recently buckwheat.... aswell as throwing in a handfull of nuts and seeds.

hope this helps.
mike.

[boots]

true, a vitamin B12 deficiency is almost always intrinsic- occurring mostly due to disturbances, diseases or interruptions (surgeries etc) in the digestive tract- either the stomach's parietal cells or the small intestine.

also a very good and healthy diet you have there. though i'm still on dairy atm, i don't have much of it.

No it's not PF the supply of B12 will slowly decrease over a period of time. May take up to 20 years.

Dairy will give you a good source of B12.

[thenymph]

I've switched between vegetarian and meat based eating styles several times...for the last few years it's only been chicken and fish if anything though, anyways here are my fav foods I've found that are alternatives to meat/protein/b vitamins/omega/fats

Spirulina (twice a day everyday!!!), Hemp seed, Flax seed, Almonds/pumpkin/sunflower seeds/, various sprouts, chick peas/beans, eggs, hemp/coconut oil,

being creative with stirfries and smoothies is key, and carry a bag full of trailmix with you wherever you go

To me this is the ultimate argument that I still struggle with, is free will a universal law? if so are we not violating an animals free will by particular hunting/farming methods? Does sustainable meat consumption make it more permissible?... Can we consider the idea of liberating these animals by being thankful and giving blessings to have a better/higher life in its next incarnation? ......Can we justify meat eating through the food cycle and our role in keeping ecosystems/populations in check? How would we react to the idea of being food of another group of beings that may consider themselves higher up on the food chain and keeping our population in check..isn't that the same logic? tough questions tough answers

Hi invisibleplane - that's good advice, and good "cul-de-sac" arguments against meat eating. I'm thinking of making my own spirulina - do you have any experience of this ? It's very high in l-tryptophan, a valuable amino acid.

[boots]

To me this is the ultimate argument that I still struggle with, is free will a universal law?

In the context you are referring it too. Yes animals do and so do human's

if so are we not violating an animals free will by particular hunting/farming methods?

No

We are predators as is a lion or fox. Do you want to dictate their free will.

If you are talking about factory farming by locking animals in small cages. then this is totally unacceptable and what we should be doing is buy from those that do the right thing. Support their business so that in the end it will become cheaper to buy these products.


Does sustainable meat consumption make it more permissible?

No That's up to mother nature. Nature will keep everything in check.

.. Can we consider the idea of liberating these animals by being thankful and giving blessings to have a better/higher life in its next incarnation?

To me it's irrelevant as to having a better or higher life animals are a group soul and they stay within that group soul. They have a personality, maybe but that is just what we project on to an animal from the bases of our own limited perceptions and knowledge.

Liberating is not a term I would entertain there is certainly an agreement between human's and an all life that sustains us on this earth.
.....

.Can we justify meat eating through the food cycle and our role in keeping ecosystems/populations in check?

We are predators are all things when you think about it. animal predate on grasses and those higher on the food chain predate on other's on those lower in the chain.

How would we react to the idea of being food of another group of beings that may consider themselves higher up on the food chain and keeping our population in check..isn't that the same logic? tough questions tough answers

Is this a fact? Well it's not, but hypothetically speaking then just accept it and try not to get eaten so you can procreate as much as possible. We are food for other life forms in this universe but it's our thought and energy which they are feasting on.

IMO we are co creator's in this universe, we are gods in the making .So our real responsibility is to be custodians of planet earth. Love and be thankful to that which sustains us.

.

[branjo]

I see your logic but an animal living of the grass isn't killing the grass though is it really, so you cannot say it has predatory intent? Or the eating of fruit that would naturally fall from the tree anyway. We don't cut down an apple tree to get the apples. We don't kill the cow to get its milk, there is plenty of protein in dairy. Still there will always the need for improved conditions for animals whether they are eaten or not.

The pointing to the canine teeth as a reason some people will give to eat meat, is pretty weak. My dogs have huge teeth and wouldn't attack a thing, sure if they were starving they would hunt, but they aren't starving so there is no need to hunt, even rabbits don't run away from my husky...lol, it has no killer instinct because it didn't learn it, it will always have a survival instinct though, very different.

The average westerner is far from starving, they are over weight and unhealthy and this can be partly blamed on meat and the chemicals and hormones that go into it, the rest you can blame on "cake" :D

Ok so you want to eat meat and believe it is your evolutionary right, "hypothetically" would you be prepared to eat only animals that have died from natural causes?, Or does it specifically have to be the infants of animals, ie the Piglet, the Lamb, the Calf these are all the preferred cuts, don't you get a sense of something not quite right about eating the young of animals? Even though I used to love meat and with a passion, apart from the marketing of meat companies calling into question a mans masculinity as the commercials on TV obviously do which is so transparent only a fool wouldn't see it, just to sell more meat. I started to feel a sense of wrongness about the meat that I was specifically drawn to, it was those I mentioned. I got a little weirded out by it to be honest.

My wife and kid still eat meat and I am not one of those people that will not sit and with another person who is eating it, although I respect those people a great deal. It takes courage to live by your convictions and not just be, pardon the pun "one of the herd".

[boots]

I see your logic but an animal living of the grass isn't killing the grass though is it really, so you cannot say it has predatory intent? Or the eating of fruit that would naturally fall from the tree anyway. We don't cut down an apple tree to get the apples. We don't kill the cow to get its milk, there is plenty of protein in dairy. Still there will always the need for improved conditions for animals whether they are eaten or not.

Well when I look at the definition of predator it say's... In ecology, predation describes a biological interaction where a predator (an organism that is hunting) feeds on its prey, the organism that is attacked.

Just because it doesn't move or show emotion we treat as not having life or consciousness or a group soul. Would not eating a fruit be like eating an embryo? Would it not also be disturbing the natural process of decay and growth of an spple tree as humans have disturbed the nature balance?

It's disgusting they way of factory farming and the way animals are slaughtered by corporations, nor is it natural. But you can't stop it only change it and thats a slow process because people dont take into account that if you fight it and take an extreme attitude then other's will get their back up and it becomes a long protracted battle.

The pointing to the canine teeth as a reason some people will give to eat meat, is pretty weak. My dogs have huge teeth and wouldn't attack a thing, sure if they were starving they would hunt, but they aren't starving so there is no need to hunt, even rabbits don't run away from my husky...lol, it has no killer instinct because it didn't learn it, it will always have a survival instinct though, very different.

:) Even rabbits dont run away from him. That's cool.

The average westerner is far from starving, they are over weight and unhealthy and this can be partly blamed on meat and the chemicals and hormones that go into it, the rest you can blame on "cake" :D

Yep and lack of exercise.

Ok so you want to eat meat and believe it is your evolutionary right, "hypothetically" would you be prepared to eat only animals that have died from natural causes?, Or does it specifically have to be the infants of animals, ie the Piglet, the Lamb, the Calf these are all the preferred cuts, don't you get a sense of something not quite right about eating the young of animals? Even though I used to love meat and with a passion, apart from the marketing of meat companies calling into question a mans masculinity as the commercials on TV obviously do which is so transparent only a fool wouldn't see it, just to sell more meat. I started to feel a sense of wrongness about the meat that I was specifically drawn to, it was those I mentioned. I got a little weirded out by it to be honest.

My wife and kid still eat meat and I am not one of those people that will not sit and with another person who is eating it, although I respect those people a great deal. It takes courage to live by your convictions and not just be, pardon the pun "one of the herd".

I dont believe it is an evolutionary right. My point is that it's a natural right it's part of the natural balance of this world. Life and death is an illusion. We are scared of death and project our fear onto other things which also die thinking in some way we can stop it or fight against it if we see it happening to other beings and avoid their death.

TV commercial's shit me as much as corporations.

Peace eh.

[boots]

I was going to say that I see this as a discussion. I have no malice towards branjo and I respect his/her choice and find his/her point's valid.

:cool:

[branjo]

I was going to say that I see this as a discussion. I have no malice towards branjo and I respect his/her choice and find his/her point's valid.

:cool:

Totally agree Boots, and likewise no malice intended back at ya my friend.

in the end there really is no right and wrong, just perception from perspective, I just feel like stopping it, and if the truth be told I don't know completely why, ya know. I think it was more of the distrust that I don't really know whats in meat anymore to as well as my Buddist Brother in laws funny logic "if it has a face you can't eat it" seemed to hit home..:D I have to say though I feel better for it spiritually if you can understand that without it sounding to weird.

Now I read up on Soy and its just as dangerous hormone wise with a result that increases estrogen FFS, I mean I dont want to find my self crying at sad parts in movies..lol

Even Milk now over here has the "Our farmers pledge never to use growth hormones" on the containers, and then just under that it says "the FDA reports no significant difference between hormone treated cows and those that havent been treated".

Its like a little precursor to "all" milk sooner or later being full of the things we really don't want to be in it, no doubt I will be back on here a vegan at some point, and then after they ruin that food I'll starve to death, whataya gonna do?

[thedivinetruth]

The true question is how do I stop eating meats when I am a competing athlete, body-builder, or highly active person when I am trying to build muscle. Also I don't drink milk. Protein shakes and beans are not enough. My inside organs are of course my number one priority and that is why I am intersted in cutting back. I have tried but when I don't have meats it feels like I can't get enough energy.
Thanks

[branjo]

The true question is how do I stop eating meats when I am a competing athlete, body-builder, or highly active person when I am trying to build muscle. Also I don't drink milk. Protein shakes and beans are not enough. My inside organs are of course my number one priority and that is why I am intersted in cutting back. I have tried but when I don't have meats it feels like I can't get enough energy.
Thanks

Hmm that is a dilemma, but there has to be a way around it, if you really feel its time for you to stop eating it, its a fact, the meat of today is not the meat of 100 years ago.
Psychologically you could be drawing your energy from the meat or the realization that your power and drive comes from the act of eating meat. Don't take that wrong I don't want to come of all namby pamby about it. But you're in control of your body, it will do as its told if the belief is strong enough, this you undoubtedly know of course given that you are an athlete.

Mind over Meat'er :D

Sorry that's not much help

[friendsinthesky]

I've been vegan for the past 3 weeks, not a conscious effort, I just don't feel like animal products. I'm feeling less bloated and fatigued.

I usually cook vegan/vegetarian meals.

If I do eat meat, I prefer fish-chicken-kangaroo and when I consume meat I prefer it's just a meat dish. I don't like to mix proteins and starch together, it bloats my stomach.

[kathleenlotus]

The true question is how do I stop eating meats when I am a competing athlete, body-builder, or highly active person when I am trying to build muscle. Also I don't drink milk. Protein shakes and beans are not enough. My inside organs are of course my number one priority and that is why I am intersted in cutting back. I have tried but when I don't have meats it feels like I can't get enough energy.
Thanks

Its very hard isnt it, I find when I do weights I really crave protein like mad.

I became a vegan when I was 11 years old but (probably because of that) now I have developed intollerances to beans, lentils and nuts over the years and have real trouble finding any vegan protein I can eat.

A couple of months ago I started eating fish and Ive felt much better and have lost weight (I had gained a lot of weight by eating too much carbs and fat to sway my hunger from the lack of protein). I feel really, really bad about eating fish and full of self loathing but I dont know what choice I have seeing as Im really ill if I eat nuts or beans.

I know one vegan who had B12 neurological problems so I think its definately worth taking yeast flakes or similar.

I think being vegan is a difficult thing but the right thing. Most right paths are the more difficult ones.

[motleyhoo]

I no longer regularly lift weights, and I do eat meat. But when I feel like taking a break from meat protein I reach for Living Fuel's Living Protein product. It is THE best protein product I have tried, and has a very neutral taste. I mix it in a blender with hemp milk, berries, sometimes adding yogurt, and sometinmes adding a green superfood product ( I use Boku Superfood). It takes on the flavor of whatever you mix it with.

http://www.livingfuel.com/Living-Protein.aspx

All of LF's products are excellent and I also keep a container of their Super Berry on the counter.

I have recently begun to add Quinoa and Buckwheat to my diet. Both are high in protein, and both have the required amino acids. IMO, the way to get off of meat is to smowly add these things to your diet over time instead of trying to go cold turkey.

[kiwimaj]

Hi invisibleplane - that's good advice, and good "cul-de-sac" arguments against meat eating. I'm thinking of making my own spirulina - do you have any experience of this ? It's very high in l-tryptophan, a valuable amino acid.

Hi thenymph

I am not sure about spirulina, but if you grow wheatgrass, dry it out (in a dehydrator) and then whiz it up in your high powered blender, you have your own wheatgrass powder, I got this tip from David Wolfe. I don't know if anyone else has done this? I usually just juice the wheatgrass.

:)

[motleyhoo]

Same thing with spouts. Sprouts are some of the most nutricious foods on the planet, but they are definitely a required taste. I low-temp dehydrate mine and powder them in a coffee grinder. Just add a spoon of the powder to a smoothie.