Hellfire Club and sex orgies

[gtycoon]

I saw the Hellfire club on the History channel and was wondering a little bit about it. Is the Hellfire club run by the Illuminati? Do the Freemasons have something similar to the Hellfire club?

In general, how are prostitutes and strippers recruited for these rituals?

I'm getting somewhere with this once I get some replies.....

[eastbeast]

Nice question...........

If it is run by Freemasons I hope I get my membership card soon........

How likely do you think it is that your question could be proven or not!

The Antis here will say yes, we Masons will say no........You might just as well toss a coin.

Ask yourself though, why run a club when we could just as easily just go to one.

Recruitment is probably done as in all other jobs, by advertising and word of mouth.......I would think.......I really don't know.......

[thelonious]

I saw the Hellfire club on the History channel and was wondering a little bit about it. Is the Hellfire club run by the Illuminati? Do the Freemasons have something similar to the Hellfire club?

In general, how are prostitutes and strippers recruited for these rituals?

I'm getting somewhere with this once I get some replies.....

The Hellfire Club operated similarly to a modern day college frat....they hired hookers and strippers, bought a few kegs, and etc.

The club had nothing to do with the Illuminati, the latter of which was a more serious organization. It had nothing to do with Freemasonry either.

[grandsecretary]

TRUTH:

The first Hellfire Club was founded in 1719 by Philip, Duke of Wharton.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/grandsecretary/Wharton.jpg

The club was meant to shock the outside world. The supposed President of this club was the Devil, although the members themselves did not apparently worship demons or the Devil, but called themselves devils in order to "shock" the religious establishment.

Wharton's Hell-Fire Club was, according to Blackett-Ord, a satirical "gentlemans club" known to ridicule religion.

Wharton's club came to an end in 1721 when George I, under the influence of Wharton's political enemies put forward a Bill "against 'horrid impieties' " (or immorality) aimed at the Hellfire Club.

Less than a year later, in 1722, Philip, Duke of Wharton was initiated a Freemason and later the same year became The Grand Master of The Grand Lodge of London (now known as The United Grand Lodge of England).

[grandsecretary]

The most famous Hellfire Club was founded by Sir Francis Dashwood MP, Chancellor of the Exchequer, Postmaster General, and Treasurer to King George III.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/grandsecretary/Dashwood.jpg

King George III had six sons, all Freemasons, one of which, Augustus Frederick, Duke of Sussex became the first Grand Master of the new United Grand Lodge of England (founded in 1813)

In his younger days, Sir Francis had joined the Society of Gentlemen of Spalding, whose members included leading Freemasons, especially the antiquarian and Chief Druid, Dr Rev William Stukeley.

A leading Freemason in the Grand Lodge of London (now known as the United Grand Lodge of England), Stukeley's diary and papers are amongst the earliest sources on the subject of the UGLE. It was Stukeley who, in 1721, famously wrote in his diary, "I was the first person made a Freemason in London for many years. We had difficulty to find members enough to perform the ceremony!"

Dashwood was a Rosicrucian and a Freemason. He was initiated in a Lodge in Florence, the Grand Master of which was Lord Raynard, son of the Chief Justice of England.

In 1751, Dashwood founded The Order of St Francis, The Hellfire Club at Medmenham, which met in a former church renovated by Dashwood to represent the Solar Temple at Palmyra. Dashwood and his merry monks, which included one Benjamin Franklin, were not Satanists, but they were followers of the Pagan Mysteries. However, it cannot be denied that they indulged in quasi-Satanic rites as a prelude to their rather energetic sexual antics.

This all came to an end in 1766, 10 years prior to the founding of the Order of the Illuminati in Bavaria, May 1st, 1776.

[mike martin]

Do the Freemasons have something similar to the Hellfire club?

In general, how are prostitutes and strippers recruited for these rituals?

I'm getting somewhere with this once I get some replies.....

Not any more, we would have to go to Spearmint Rhino like everyone else:D

Mike

[grandsecretary]

Not any more, we would have to go to Spearmint Rhino like everyone else:D

Mike

It's a Spearmint Polo. Foolish boy!

[dawnismygoddess]

Of interesting note: all three of these men are displaying the same hand sign - and all three of these men were Freemasons.

I have dubbed it the "hand under chin" sign - for lack of a better name.


Keep in mind that these individuals are posing for the artist. This is not a case of happenstance photography.




Sir Francis Dashwood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Francis_Dashwood) (b. 1708 - d. 1781):
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/SirFrancisDashwoodb1708-d1781.jpg
^ Freemason and founder of the infamous and notorious Hellfire Club in England.

The Hellfire Club was a secret society which engaged in depraved sexual orgies, drunkenness, Satanism, and held Black Masses.
Members included prominent men of the British aristocracy, and the most influential politicians of the day.

There were 13 original members, Dashwood as the leader and his 12 "disciples".




Benjamin Franklin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin) (b. 1706 - d. 1790):
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/BenjaminFranklin.jpg
^ Freemason and possible Hellfire Club member.

Initiated into Freemasonry on February, 1731 at St. John's Lodge in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
Franklin was a very active Mason and attended various lodges during his travels including lodges in Scotland, England, and France. LINK (http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/10,000_famous_freemasons/Volume_2_E_to_J.htm)




Paul Revere (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Revere) (b. 1734 - d. 1818):
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/Paul_Revere.jpg
^ Freemason, metal-smith and American Revolutionary War patriot. Initiated at St. Andrews Lodge, Boston, Massachusetts in 1760.
Revere made seals and jewels for several Masonic lodges.

Revere was Grand Master of St. Andrews Lodge in 1770 and again in 1777-79, and from 1780-82. LINK (http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/10,000_famous_freemasons/Volume_4_Q_to_Z.htm)

[grandsecretary]

Of interesting note: all three of these men are displaying the same hand sign - and all three of these men were Freemasons.

I have dubbed it the "hand under chin" sign - for lack of a better name.

Keep in mind that these individuals are posing for the artist. This is not a case of happenstance photography.

Well, now we are talking. All Freemasons and Franklin was a member of Dashwood's Hellfire Club. Do you have a list of the original 13 members?

I cannot possibly comment upon whether it is or is not a Masonic sign, but I would never say never. One in particular. Far more probable than the photographs of handshakes.

Again, they are not very well done (sloppy), but they are posing for an artist who may NOT be a Freemason and who may not have realised the need for accuracy. But well spotted.

It is a long tradition to include Masonic signs in portraiture.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/grandsecretary/SirThomasGresham.jpg http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/grandsecretary/WilliamHerbert.jpg

It's a definite possible.

[eternal_spirit]

Some of the women involved may have been Eastern Star who were introduced to fellow male Masons both male and female may have been selected Elite family blood lines to reproduce "inter generational" Freemason off spring.
A sort of Masonic Introduction agency.
have heard that 3rd generation Masons are chosen to rise to the higher levels, or the side degrees/Lodges, which some are said to be secret orders/Lodges, Not known to their fellow Masons in the regular Lodges.

I think you can go visit the Hell fire caves, Medmenham Hall Buckinghamshire, where some of the rituals are said to have taken place.

Edit - The sex rituals may have been a way to attract certain souls to reincarnate, into chosen bloodlines.

[jojo]

the hellfire caves in west wycombe are a spooky place. the vibe of that place is not a pleasent one.


i think it was a place for general piss ups and sexual abandonment, but i recon there was dark rituals such as animal sacrifice (perhaps more) and dark sexual practices performed there. IMO, but this is only from my feelings of walking through the empty caves alone.

[grandsecretary]

Some of the women involved may have been Eastern Star who were introduced to fellow male Masons both male and female may have been selected Elite family blood lines to reproduce "inter generational" Freemason off spring.
A sort of Masonic Introduction agency.
have heard that 3rd generation Masons are chosen to rise to the higher levels, or the side degrees/Lodges, which some are said to be secret orders/Lodges, Not known to their fellow Masons in the regular Lodges.

I think you can go visit the Hell fire caves, Medmenham Hall Buckinghamshire, where some of the rituals are said to have taken place.

No Eastern Star in England - ever. It's a modern American thing.

[eternal_spirit]

No Eastern Star in England - ever. It's a modern American thing.

http://staffs.proboards37.com/index....ead=1123151187 (http://staffs.proboards37.com/index.cgi?board=Comasonry&action=display&thread=1123151187)


FALKIRK CHAPTER No.35
ORDER OF THE EASTERN STAR
STIRLING, WEST LOTHIAN & CLACKMANNAN DISTRICTON THE ROLL OF THE SUPREME GRAND CHAPTER OF SCOTLAND

http://www.s204042756.websitehome.co.uk/images/scots_stargif.gifhttp://www.s204042756.websitehome.co.uk/images/saltire.gif

Maybe on visit to England? :D

Okay, Freemasons daughters may have been introduced to fellow Male Masons.

[dawnismygoddess]

Well, now we are talking. All Freemasons and Franklin was a member of Dashwood's Hellfire Club. Do you have a list of the original 13 members?

You mean the other 12? No, I do not. However, I do have a book with more information, but it is at my girlfriends house right now and I would not be able to access it until next week.

Do you have an info link as to Franklin being a member? I could not find anything conclusive on the net.



I cannot possibly comment upon whether it is or is not a Masonic sign, but I would never say never. One in particular. Far more probable than the photographs of handshakes.

The one of Franklin seems pretty well-defined. And the painting of Franklin hangs in one of the bedrooms of the White House, I had a picture of it, but I can not find it now.

My research would lead me to believe that they are Masonic gestures.



Again, they are not very well done (sloppy), but they are posing for an artist who may NOT be a Freemason and who may not have realised the need for accuracy. But well spotted.

Thanks.

Where not many prominent artists of that day Masons themselves? Then again, maybe they were not trying to make it too obvious.



It is a long tradition to include Masonic signs in portraiture.http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/SirThomasGresham.jpg

Indeed.




Roger Sherman (b. 1721 - d. 1793):
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/456px-Ralph_Earl_001.jpg
^ "Sherman was the only person to sign the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Association, Articles of Confederation and the Federal Constitution.

b. April 19, 1721 in Newton, Mass. Admitted to bar in 1754. Member of the Connecticut assembly a number of terms between 1755 and 1766. Moved to New Haven, Conn. in 1761. Served in state senate, 1766-85. Was elected as congressman to 1st congress, 1789-191, and was U.S. senator from Conn. from 1791 until death in 1793.

Although his Masonic apron is in the historical collection of Yale University, having been presented by his descendants, his membership in the fraternity is based on tradition and not supported by any evidence." LINK (http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/10,000_famous_freemasons/Volume_4_Q_to_Z.htm)


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/411px-RogerShermanPortrait.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/RogerSherman.jpg

[grandsecretary]

http://staffs.proboards37.com/index....ead=1123151187 (http://staffs.proboards37.com/index.cgi?board=Comasonry&action=display&thread=1123151187)


FALKIRK CHAPTER No.35
ORDER OF THE EASTERN STAR
STIRLING, WEST LOTHIAN & CLACKMANNAN DISTRICTON THE ROLL OF THE SUPREME GRAND CHAPTER OF SCOTLAND

http://www.s204042756.websitehome.co.uk/images/scots_stargif.gifhttp://www.s204042756.websitehome.co.uk/images/saltire.gif

Maybe on visit to England? :D

I am not aware of Easter Star in Scotland either. I believe they are allowed to visit the Eastern Star in America. The Eastern Star in America didn't exist either at the time of the Hell Fire Clubs.

Okay, Freemasons daughters may have been introduced to fellow Male Masons.

Freemasons daughters? For goodness sake! They had male and female members who were just as frisky!

Look up the date of the founding of The Eastern Star in America. It is modern and A&ASR to boot. Does not figure in the equation.

[grandsecretary]

dawnismygoddess

Q. You mean the other 12? No, I do not. However, I do have a book with more information, but it is at my girlfriends house right now and I would not be able to access it until next week.

A. Yes please.

Q. Do you have an info link as to Franklin being a member? I could not find anything conclusive on the net.

A. Yes

Q. The one of Franklin seems pretty well-defined. And the painting of Franklin hangs in one of the bedrooms of the White House, I had a picture of it, but I can not find it now. My research would lead me to believe that they are Masonic gestures.

A. IMHO that one is probable, the other two, a bit dodgy.

Q. Where not many prominent artists of that day Masons themselves? Then again, maybe they were not trying to make it too obvious.

A. Correct on both counts. They would have been cheaper too!

Roger Sherman (b. 1721 - d. 1793):
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/456px-Ralph_Earl_001.jpg

"Sherman was the only person to sign the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Association, Articles of Confederation and the Federal Constitution.

b. April 19, 1721 in Newton, Mass. Admitted to bar in 1754. Member of the Connecticut assembly a number of terms between 1755 and 1766. Moved to New Haven, Conn. in 1761. Served in state senate, 1766-85. Was elected as congressman to 1st congress, 1789-191, and was U.S. senator from Conn. from 1791 until death in 1793.

Although his Masonic apron is in the historical collection of Yale University, having been presented by his descendants, his membership in the fraternity is based on tradition and not supported by any evidence." LINK (http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/10,000_famous_freemasons/Volume_4_Q_to_Z.htm)

I can tell you from this portrait that Sherman was a Freemason, no doubt about it in my mind at all. Not a sign or a handshake, something else hidden in the picture.

[eternal_spirit]

Freemasons daughters? For goodness sake! They were "loose women". Quick and easy.

:D

Okay, I'll go along with the official version about the prostitutes etc. But it is possible another reason was as I stated in a previous post, to breed Masonic or other bloodlines.

[grandsecretary]

:D

Okay, I'll go along with the official version about the prostitutes etc. But it is possible another reason was as I stated in a previous post, to breed Masonic or other bloodlines.

The Hellfire Clubs were anarchic organisations. Alcohol, magic, mysticism and queues of willing females. They had female "members". Lots of sex, but I suspect that pregnancy was an unwanted bi-product.

Not Freemasonry by the way, but closely connected with some very influential Freemasons involved.

[dawnismygoddess]

A. Yes please.

I will see what I can come up with next week.

The one thing I did find a few months back, was this picture of Paul Whitehead.

It was Whitehead who wrote about the activities of the society. Before his death, Whitehead himself burned these documents, in order to prevent any revealing of the society to the outside world.

Paul Whitehead (b. 1710 - d. 1774):
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/PaulWhiteheadb1710-d1774-3.gif
^ Note: he is giving the "hidden hand" sign.




A. Yes

Is it a web link or no?


A. IMHO that one is probable, the other two, a bit dodgy.

I agree, like they are masking it a little bit.


A. Correct on both counts. They would have been cheaper too!

Charles Willson Peale comes to mind....


I can tell you from this portrait that Sherman was a Freemason, no doubt about it in my mind at all. Not a sign or a handshake, something else hidden in the picture.


Is it what appears to be an upright gavel incorporated into the chair?:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/RS.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/gavel1.jpg



Getting back to one of your earlier posts, I am assuming that Sir Thomas was a Brother?:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/SirThomasGresham1519-1579c.jpg

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/SirThomasGresham1519-1579b.jpg

[grandsecretary]

dawnismygoddess

Paul Whitehead (b. 1710 - d. 1774):

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/PaulWhiteheadb1710-d1774-3.gif

Q. Note: he is giving the "hidden hand" sign.

A. Not a Masonic one that I know. It could be a sign for the Hell Fire Club itself. I simply don't know.

Q. Is it a web link or no?

A. It's an article, available on the web. I will dig it out ASAP.

Q. I agree, like they are masking it a little bit.

A. Masking: Masons only "mask" tokens (handshakes) by placing the free hand over the top of the token so that it can be felt by the recipient but not seen. We might be jumping to conclusions with this one.

Q. Charles Willson Peale comes to mind ...

A. There were many.

Q. Is it what appears to be an upright gavel incorporated into the chair?:

A. Good guess but no, and I am afraid I must ask you to forgive me because I am unable to help you any further due to Masonic secrecy.

Q. Getting back to one of your earlier posts, I am assuming that Sir Thomas was a Brother?

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/SirThomasGresham1519-1579c.jpg

A. Oh Yes. He was appointed Grand Master for The South of England in 1567, (effectively London), but only pro temperore (a temporary appointment subordinate to The Grand Master at York).

This was done in order to cement relationships between The Grand Lodge at York and Queen Elizabeth I. This highly political move was brokered by Sir Thomas Sackville. You are undoubtedly aware of the relationships between the Queen, Gresham and Sackville.

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/SirThomasGresham1519-1579b.jpg

This is not a Masonic hand sign or signal although the painting is full of other Masonic symbolism. Again, forgive me, but please enjoy.

[dawnismygoddess]

A. Not a Masonic one that I know. It could be a sign for the Hell Fire Club itself. I simply don't know.

I have several dozen photos concerning this topic. I will start a thread someday soon. Most of the men making it are Masons, and there are theories. You can let me know what you think about it after I post them.


A. It's an article, available on the web. I will dig it out ASAP.

Thanks much, that would be wonderful.



A. Masking: Masons only "mask" tokens (handshakes) by placing the free hand over the top of the token so that it can be felt by the recipient but not seen. We might be jumping to conclusions with this one.

Is that what that is!? I have been wondering about that, and that's what I suspected it to be.

Yes, I guess "mask" was not the best choice of words.



A. Good guess but no, and I am afraid I must ask you to forgive me because I am unable to help you any further due to Masonic secrecy.

Alright. I understand, but it makes me sad...:(



A. Oh Yes. He was appointed Grand Master for The South of England in 1567, (effectively London), but only pro temperore (a temporary appointment subordinate to The Grand Master at York).

This was done in order to cement relationships between The Grand Lodge at York and Queen Elizabeth I. This highly political move was brokered by Sir Thomas Sackville. You are undoubtedly aware of the relationships between the Queen, Gresham and Sackville.

Actually, being a typical American, I am not that well versed in English history. Something I hope to remedy in the coming years.


This is not a Masonic hand sign or signal although the painting is full of other Masonic symbolism. Again, forgive me, but please enjoy.

Alright, well I think I might see some of it - like the skull on the ground, and the plumb on the wall to his left.

Also, possibly his feet?


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/SirThomasGresham1519-1579c.jpg

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/545644465.jpg


Robert Anderson (b. 1805 - d. 1875):
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/MajorRobertAnderson1805-1875-1.jpg

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/MajorRobertAnderson1805-18752222222.jpg
^ Freemason and Major General in the U.S. Army during the American Civil War. Anderson was in command of Sumter at the time of the Confederate attack.

Raised in Mercer Lodge No. 50, Trenton, N.J. May 27, 1858. He was also an honorary member of Pacific Lodge No. 233 of New York City.


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/Brother_George_7-1.jpg

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/Brother_George_22222222.jpg

[dawnismygoddess]

So, you do not think it is a pyramid hand sign like the ones Sherman posed many times?


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/456px-Ralph_Earl_001-1.jpg

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/456px-Ralph_Earl_0012222222.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/411px-RogerShermanPortrait-1.jpg

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/411px-RogerShermanPortrait222.jpg


Different style, same meaning:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/RogerSherman1.jpg

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/RogerSherman12222222.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/Brother_George_21.jpg

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/Brother_George_2122222222222222222.jpg


================================================== =========


Also, getting back to the "hand under chin" sign, what do you think about these two?


Uri Geller:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/UriGeller.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/Ozzy_4.jpg

[grandsecretary]

This is the first time that I have come across what you suggest may be a "Pyramid Sign". But then I have only been a Mason for 26 years. Early days.

Uri Geller and The Prince of Darkness. Now the "signs", both of them, are poses, and definitely not Masonic.

I am in an invidious position. It is strictly against the rules of my Grand Lodge to reveal the identity of any living Mason without being in receipt of written permission so to do.

That being said I am not AWARE that either of them are Masons but I cannot research it and then advise you later. I am very sorry.

[dawnismygoddess]

This is the first time that I have come across what you suggest may be a "Pyramid Sign". But then I have only been a Mason for 26 years. Early days.

Uri Geller and The Prince of Darkness. Now the "signs", both of them, are poses, and definitely not Masonic.

I am in an invidious position. It is strictly against the rules of my Grand Lodge to reveal the identity of any living Mason without being in receipt of written permission so to do.

That being said I am not AWARE that either of them are Masons but I cannot research it and then advise you later. I am very sorry.


I see. Well, it sure looks like a type of pyramid sign to me. But, like you said it was the early days and I have not seen much of it recently, except for Simon Cowell's "inverted pyramid" sign on that cover of Rolling Stone.


I think Uri may be a Brother, but I do not think Ozzy is one.

[grandsecretary]

I see. Well, it sure looks like a type of pyramid sign to me. But, like you said it was the early days and I have not seen much of it recently, except for Simon Cowell's "inverted pyramid" sign on that cover of Rolling Stone.


I think Uri may be a Brother, but I do not think Ozzy is one.

You obviously know more than I do on this.

[dawnismygoddess]

Here it is. (April 2006 cover)


Simon with the inverted pyramid:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/April2006.jpg


Other possibles - Paula with a "W" over the "W", Randy Jackson with the "hand over heart":
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/April2006222.jpg

[endlessvista]

When I was a teenager my friends and I used to go up to the Hellfire Club in the Dublin Mountains and watch the city lights come on while dropping acid. Pretty incredible experience too. Like the entire city was dancing. When sections of the grid came on all the lights used to shoot up into the night sky and we would be shouting things like"did you see that!!!" One time the Garda tried to arrest us and we all legged it into the dense forests around there and would be there till morning tripping out and seeing leprecauns and druids and shit.

http://3tx.dk/images/hellfireclub.jpg

http://www.deadlyphoto.com/photoblog/photos/places/ireland/dublin/hellfire/IMG_3724_hellfire_room.jpg

[size_of_light]

Here it is. (April 2006 cover)


Simon with the inverted pyramid:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/April2006.jpg


Other possibles - Paula with a "W" over the "W", Randy Jackson with the "hand over heart":
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/April2006222.jpg

Just thought I'd point out that there's pyramids and inverted pyramids everywhere in this photo. The headboard of the bed, the angle between the thumb and forefinger on Paul Abdul's left hand, the V-neck on the black guy's pajama top etc.

For fun I'll speculate that the arc/circle motif on the headboard (between Abdul and the black guy) wasn't actually present but has been digitally added later.

I'm only browsing this thread casually and don't have any particular theories or other worthwhile input to add here, except to say that the hand poses you've circled look a bit too awkward and unnatural for the subjects to make or for the photographer to suggest without a good reason.

[dawnismygoddess]

Yes. But what we do know is that:


1. Simon is almost assuredly a Freemason.

2. He is posing for the photograph whilst making a handsign that could be easily considered to have Masonic overtones.

3. Yes, one can read too far into it. However, considering the circumstances, there is a fair chance that Simon is communicating something.



And in case you may have thought that inverted pyramids are not Masonic, you can see by the following images that they are no stranger to the fraternity.




Council of Allied Masonic Degrees logo:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/council_of_allied_masonic_degree-1.png


Council of Royal Select Masters (York Rite):
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/CouncilofRoyalSelectMasters2.png


Knights of Pythias:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/Knights_of_Pythias_Logo-1.gif


Order of the True Kindred:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/TrueKindred_Logo-1.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/MettlachStein2.jpg

[size_of_light]

Sounds plausible to me and I wasn't suggesting otherwise. The photo has clearly been heavily doctored and the headboard of the bed having the texture and appearance of some sort of temple (or pyramid complete with remnant limestone cap?) is also interesting.

[dawnismygoddess]

Yes, I noticed all that too the first time I saw this photo.

However, like you said earlier, we have to be careful not to read too far into it.

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/codex_magica/images/coodex_33_small.jpg (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/codex_magica/images/coodex_33.jpg)
Vladimir Lenin, Jewish Mason who led the Communist overthrow of the Czar in Russia, gives the hidden sign of the men who worship the God, Jahbuhlun.

Some more pics here and an explanation

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29553

[dawnismygoddess]

Hey ES, I plan on starting a thread with many more pictures.

And most of them will not be from Codex.

[gtycoon]

What if I knew of a Freemason who is recruiting young women 21-25? What if I knew other men that also have other women on the payroll? What if I said these men knew each other.... What if I said these women were making 5k plus a week.

Freemason is verified 100% for sure.

3 women who knew said Freemason are dead. 2 dead verified 1 missing.

Very plausible 1 died because of her habits. Very plausible the one missing died of her habits. The other one dead seemed to be suffering from mind control
related suicidal tendencies.

Budget for these women seems to be upwards of 50k / week combined.

What kind of operation is this? Intelligence information gathered by women?
Girls recruited for rituals? I'm talking about a monopoly on strippers in a whole city.

BTW I could post links about why it could be intel operation. The link would show people arrested tied to these people. The info they were arrested because could have been gathered by said women.

The other link would be to Masonic temple revealing the recruiter.

To the Masons in this forum. You seem really nice and I have some very good friends who are masons. I also know some real jerks who use their codeword "character" to judge others. And to the masons, I know for a fact this man is a recruiter and 100% hes a freemason. What I'm starting to think is that hes so high up in the masons that hes part of the Illuminati upper levels.

[dawnismygoddess]

Do it. We want to see.

[gtycoon]

If I do it my identity could be revealed once people start posting names in the thread of people on the links. DavidIcke.com is high up in google PR and said people might see and join.

Tied to these men indirectly (possible directly I cant verify now) is people who are connected to DC madame.

A third player in this group (the one arrested from info obtained by women) is tied to shady people connected to DC madame and Heidi Fleiss.

[dawnismygoddess]

Well, if it's not worth the risk, then skip it.

[grandsecretary]

Here it is. (April 2006 cover)

Other possibles - Paula with a "W" over the "W", Randy Jackson with the "hand over heart":
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/April2006222.jpg

I am afraid not. As you know I would tell you if they were using Masonic signs. We just don't do it. Why would we?

[mike martin]

Yes. But what we do know is that:

1. Simon is almost assuredly a Freemason.
Can I just ask how you come up with this conclusion/statement?

And in case you may have thought that inverted pyramids are not Masonic, you can see by the following images that they are no stranger to the fraternity.
Now I want you to take this how it is given, that is no malice and not fussed but in the spirit of equipping you with the truth.

The "pyramid" either rightway up or upside down is not a Masonic symbol! You are seeing pyramids because you've been conditioned by anti-Masonic propaganda to believe they are connected to Masonry.

Now please, having this information look at the pictures again. What geometric shape can you actually see?


Council of Allied Masonic Degrees logo:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/council_of_allied_masonic_degree-1.png

Council of Royal Select Masters (York Rite):
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/CouncilofRoyalSelectMasters2.png

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/MettlachStein2.jpg

These are irrelevant as they are Clubs that Masons can join not actual Orders with a Masonic connection
Knights of Pythias:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/Knights_of_Pythias_Logo-1.gif

Order of the True Kindred:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/TrueKindred_Logo-1.jpg


Mike

[grandsecretary]

Sounds plausible to me and I wasn't suggesting otherwise. The photo has clearly been heavily doctored and the headboard of the bed having the texture and appearance of some sort of temple (or pyramid complete with remnant limestone cap?) is also interesting.

But why on earth would they bother? It just does not make any sense at all. I would tell you if it had any credence at all.

And by the way, how can you assume that someone is a Mason? You either know, or you don't.

[jojo]

ermmm, is this thread about the hell fire club?

[grandsecretary]

Do it. We want to see.

Me too! Go for it!

[barney_rubble]

Yes. But what we do know is that:


1. Simon is almost assuredly a Freemason.


Can I just ask how you come up with this conclusion/statement?




well this is how:
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/12_03/cowell2BIG_468x601.jpg

[dawnismygoddess]

Can I just ask how you come up with this conclusion/statement?

Based on the evidence I have seen. And yes, I could be wrong, I am not 100% sure. (how could I be? I am not a Brother)

However, based on the preliminary evidence, it seems plausible to me.

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/cowell2BIG_468x601.jpg



The "pyramid" either rightway up or upside down is not a Masonic symbol! You are seeing pyramids because you've been conditioned by anti-Masonic propaganda to believe they are connected to Masonry.

You should know better, please. And for the record, I pay no attention to "anti-Masonic propaganda" - you made an assumption there. I am my own man, with my own thoughts.

I am not a fool. The pyramid/triangle is one of the quintessential symbols in Masonry.

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/pa27-1.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/dsfdfs.jpg

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/HolyRAMapron3.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/242452.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/Mason2222.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/cv100856.jpg




Now please, having this information look at the pictures again. What geometric shape can you actually see?


A hexagram. I already knew that. Either way, these is no denying that the inverted pyramid/triangle is highlighted and incorporated into the imagery.





But why on earth would they bother? It just does not make any sense at all. I would tell you if it had any credence at all.

And by the way, how can you assume that someone is a Mason? You either know, or you don't.


That is why I posted it - to show you. Obviously you do not think that it means anything, and that is fine. I am still undecided.

I can do all the assuming I want. However, that doesn't mean I would know for sure if he is one. I never said that.

[orbandsceptre27]

http://www.blather.net/abroad/archives/IMG_3672_hellfire_dog500_bw.jpg

http://www.askeatonbynet.com/THE%20HE3.jpg

http://blather.net/blather/1998/10/the_irish_hellfire_club_no_smo.html

http://pa.photoshelter.com/c/davewalshphoto/search?I_DSC=hellfire+ireland&I_USER_ID=U000038QtBeXCGlg&I_DSC_AND=t&_ACT=search

http://www.sra-ireland.freepress-freespeech.com/archivehellfireclub.htm

http://www.missingpersons-ireland.freepress-freespeech.com/newbook.htm

[mike martin]

Based on the evidence I have seen. And yes, I could be wrong, I am not 100% sure. (how could I be? I am not a Brother)

However, based on the preliminary evidence, it seems plausible to me.
Like the words often quoted here on this site that picture has been taken out of context! The rest of the set begin to make the uncertainty of the proposition clearer:

Here's the original story: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-503210/A-year-Simon-Cowell-loses-man-boobs-Christmas.html

You'll notice that the jetskis are not Cowell's, he and the girl get on them, use them, get off them then leave them to their owners. So we can see that the preliminary evidence that you have been given has, in fact, been manipulated. Possibly to fit an agenda, I wonder.

You should know better, please. And for the record, I pay no attention to "anti-Masonic propaganda" - you made an assumption there. I am my own man, with my own thoughts.
I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt unfortunately you words belie that.

The pyramid/triangle is one of the quintessential symbols in Masonry.
Says who exactly? Not Masons that's for sure. I've already stated very plainly that the pyramid is not a Masonic symbol. We'll get on to the triangle in a moment.

a hexagram. I already knew that. Either way, these is no denying that the inverted pyramid/triangle is highlighted and incorporated into the imagery.
No, how can you see a hexagram? Just to clarify a hexagram (like a pentagram) is a very specific form it is named for the amount of lines required to form it, that being six.

The pictures that you supply have very specific symbols easily recognised by a Mason but they seem to cause you problems but that's only because you're not a Mason and you're trying to complicate things. BTW only someone who had read " hexagrams" and "pyramids" would be there, would be able to conjure them from triangles. Only one of the pictures you supplied contained a hexagram (it wa rather obvious) and none had pyramids they all contained a triangle. Although it is not specifically Masonic it has been borrowed (quite a few have) and employs its original meaning within Masonry which is linked to the number 3 and God.

Mike

[grandsecretary]

This might help.

http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/28/281.html

[dawnismygoddess]

You'll notice that the jetskis are not Cowell's, he and the girl get on them, use them, get off them then leave them to their owners. So we can see that the preliminary evidence that you have been given has, in fact, been manipulated. Possibly to fit an agenda, I wonder.

So, his friend is a Mason then? And that would not increase his likelihood of being one himself?



Says who exactly? Not Masons that's for sure. I've already stated very plainly that the pyramid is not a Masonic symbol. We'll get on to the triangle in a moment.


Says who? Only one of the most respected Masonic authors of the 20th Century.


Albert G. Mackey, 33°:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/AlbertGMackey1807-1881.jpg


From the Encyclopedia of Freemasonry by Albert G. Mackey:


"There is no symbol more important in its significance, more various in its application, or more generally diffused throughout the whole system of Freemasonry, than the triangle. An examination of it, therefore, cannot fail to be interesting to the Masonic student."


Have you no respect for your elders?


No, how can you see a hexagram? Just to clarify a hexagram (like a pentagram) is a very specific form it is named for the amount of lines required to form it, that being six.

Not a complete hexagram, but the overall shape of one - much like the compass and square symbol itself.



The pictures that you supply have very specific symbols easily recognised by a Mason but they seem to cause you problems but that's only because you're not a Mason and you're trying to complicate things. BTW only someone who had read " hexagrams" and "pyramids" would be there, would be able to conjure them from triangles.


No, it is you that is trying to complicate things. You know perfectly well that I meant a triangle.

Triangle/pyramid - it is all the same to the Profane anyway. And that is who is reading this thread in the first place.

[grandsecretary]

dawnismygoddess

Q. So, his friend is a Mason then? And that would not increase his likelihood of being one himself?

A. Mr Cowell and his girlfriend hired them on the beach commercially, from one of the men photographed in the Mail article. The owner is probably a Mason. He has decorated his ski jet thereby risking being accused of trying to escape any parking fine issued by a passing Masonic dolphin.

Q. Triangle/pyramid - it is all the same to the Profane anyway. And that is who is reading this thread in the first place.

A. But to a Mason, the triangle is very important, and it is definitely not a pyramid.

Sorry.

[mike martin]

So, his friend is a Mason then? And that would not increase his likelihood of being one himself?
Yeah Ok.

Says who? Only one of the most respected Masonic authors of the 20th Century.
From the Encyclopedia of Freemasonry by Albert G. Mackey:

"There is no symbol more important in its significance, more various in its application, or more generally diffused throughout the whole system of Freemasonry, than the triangle. An examination of it, therefore, cannot fail to be interesting to the Masonic student."

Have you no respect for your elders?
I think you were too quick to condemn me there. Did you read what I wrote ? Did you read what you quooted?

I said the pyramid isn't a Masonic symbol but the triangle is. you quoted Mackey saying that the triangle is a Masonic symbol??

Not a complete hexagram, but the overall shape of one -
I've had this discussion before with the lucifer. You see when you want to discuss symbols you need at least a grasp of symbolism.

A symbol is specific, it doesn't change. What happens is that different groups of people see a different meaning in it (like the Swastika). A hexagram must be composed of six lines (hex= greek for 6, grammos= lines) otherwise it just isn't. As I say you're trying to make it complicated, the symbols are straight-forward it is the interpretation that is complex.

much like the compass and square symbol itself.
Oh dear, please don't go all John J Robinson on me. Did you know he was a non Mason when he wrote Born in Blood, he joined a few years later.

The Square and Compasses are far more complicated. First they are two separate symbols each having their own complex individual meaning (hence the fact that the compasses appear on their own in your pictures. However, they can be joined together and impart further meanings, they are also used in their combined form as an emblem (different from a symbol) for Freemasonry.

No, it is you that is trying to complicate things. You know perfectly well that I meant a triangle.

Triangle/pyramid - it is all the same to the Profane anyway. And that is who is reading this thread in the first place.
Remembering that profane just means non-Masons! Most non-Masonic people with an actual interest and small amount of knowledge about symbolism will be quick to point the difference out to you.

At the simplest a triangle represents 3, a pyramid can represent 12 or 16 or 20 depending on how many faces it has but it cannot represent 3.

Mike

[size_of_light]

But why on earth would they bother? It just does not make any sense at all. I would tell you if it had any credence at all.

And by the way, how can you assume that someone is a Mason? You either know, or you don't.

As I said, I was just casually browsing this thread when I saw dawn's image post and decided to comment on it. I'm not convinced there is any specific Masonic relevance in the photo and I haven't got a clue if the subjects are Masons or not.

What interested me was that the image (like a lot of magazine images and advertisements) does seem to contain a good deal of staged and digitally-manipulated symbolism (for whatever reasons) and when you look at those hand positions they do seem unnatural and there for a reason.

Try posing your fingers like Simon Cowell, or even Paula Abdul - pretty awkward stuff.

[michael christopher]

Something that needs to be said, a lot of times celebrities will just start giving out these handsigns and getting involved in all of this esoteric material because they find it incredibly interesting. I don't believe David Bowie is a Freemason at all, but he could very easily be made to look like one based on any number of photographs taken between 1970 and 1980 because of his incredible interest in the occult. It is really just stupid to start making assumptions and then acting like those assumptions are true. If you want to assume something, fine, but that doesn't make you right, and if you're assuming something and it's wrong it in fact makes you kind of stupid. I mean, the idea that someone photoshopped occult symbols onto the headboard in that Rolling Stone photo - why? What is the damn purpose? Why would they do something like that after the fact? And people making random hand gestures, being accused of being Masons...

Many times have I split my fingers in a diamond shape, no one has ever yelled at me that I'm a Freemason. Maybe if someone took a picture of me doing it, things would be different, but the fact is that almost all of these hand gestures people are devoting huge amounts of time to look completely incidental. Talk about making a big deal out of nothing.

All of this speculation is nothing more than this: A WASTE OF TIME. Go after the real problems.

[size_of_light]

I mean, the idea that someone photoshopped occult symbols onto the headboard in that Rolling Stone photo - why? What is the damn purpose? Why would they do something like that after the fact? And people making random hand gestures, being accused of being Masons...

I don't want to labour the point because I'm not really into it all that much, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and there's no harm pointing out possible examples. You asked why they'd photoshop occult symbols onto the cover of an iconically renowned, high-circulation international pop culture magazine?

1. It's a damn easy thing to do.
2. Almost no one notices it.
3. For similar reasons to those behind the subliminals that crop up in
other forms of media.

[michael christopher]

I don't want to labour the point because I'm not really into it all that much, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and there's no harm pointing out possible examples. You asked why they'd photoshop occult symbols onto the cover of an iconically renowned, high-circulation international pop culture magazine?

1. It's a damn easy thing to do.
2. Almost no one notices it.
3. For similar reasons to those behind the subliminals that crop up in
other forms of media.

I know the symbols are everywhere, but honestly the idea that they photoshopped the symbols onto the cover of Rolling Stone on a headboard behind the judges from American Idol really just seems like one of those things people are reaching for, especially considering the complete lack of evidence. Does Rolling Stone have a history of plastering occult symbols onto their magazine covers? I don't think so. I also think no one would have even considered that if Simon Cowell was not on the cover making a hand symbol that looked "kind of like a triangle" - I mean, so much of this stuff is hard to take seriously because so many people are willing to see whatever they want to see.

[grandsecretary]

I don't want to labour the point because I'm not really into it all that much, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and there's no harm pointing out possible examples. You asked why they'd photoshop occult symbols onto the cover of an iconically renowned, high-circulation international pop culture magazine?

1. It's a damn easy thing to do.
2. Almost no one notices it.
3. For similar reasons to those behind the subliminals that crop up in
other forms of media.

But I ask again, why bother?

[size_of_light]

I know the symbols are everywhere, but honestly the idea that they photoshopped the symbols onto the cover of Rolling Stone on a headboard behind the judges from American Idol really just seems like one of those things people are reaching for, especially considering the complete lack of evidence. Does Rolling Stone have a history of plastering occult symbols onto their magazine covers? I don't think so. I also think no one would have even considered that if Simon Cowell was not on the cover making a hand symbol that looked "kind of like a triangle" - I mean, so much of this stuff is hard to take seriously because so many people are willing to see whatever they want to see.

Yeah, I agree, the more you look for this stuff, the more you see it, and some people take it to deranged lengths and make all sorts of eccentric connections. You'd consider this to be one of those.

Sometimes if I look at an image like this and consider it seriously though, I get a sense that it's more than just an accident. This isn't a great example of it to be honest, although the combination of odd finger poses and strange, ugly-looking old world headboard lends it some support in my mind.

Maybe Rolling Stone do have a history of planting subliminals on their covers. If you can accept that subliminals are put out there, then why not? It's the pop culture magazine equivalent of MTV so it's a good place to do it.

Re: Bowie etc., I'm sure a lot of musicians have used these sorts of gestures simply because of the novelty factor and (especially back in the 70s) because they came across as a bit avante garde.

[size_of_light]

But I ask again, why bother?

I don't know.

I'm familiar with the suggestions that they could be communicating to others in the know, and/or communicating to those of us in the dark for occult, ritualistic purposes.

[michael christopher]

Re: Bowie etc., I'm sure a lot of musicians have used these sorts of gestures simply because of the novelty factor and (especially back in the 70s) because they came across as a bit avante garde.

I think this is the case with many of the celebrities who people consider to be Freemasons (obviously not all of them). Accidental "hand gestures" happen all the time... I wonder how many times I have accidentally made a Masonic hand gesture without even realizing it.

[size_of_light]

I think this is the case with many of the celebrities who people consider to be Freemasons (obviously not all of them). Accidental "hand gestures" happen all the time... I wonder how many times I have accidentally made a Masonic hand gesture without even realizing it.

I think it was drael who made a good point in one thread about how he'd noticed how often his little finger was unintentionally cocked when he pointed at something with his index finger. Probably most of these so-called devil-sign hand gestures are just split second captures of the same thing. Funnily enough, I just noticed that I was essentially making the devil sign over the keyboard as my right hand was typing.

[dawnismygoddess]

Alright, I will give this thread a break as I see there is not an effort being put forth for constructive commentary.

Besides, this thread (and all those like it) are not about me or the Masons being correct.

It is for all the other people who read them - and what they come away with. After all, we are both propagating our belief systems, so let the chips fall were they may. ;)

[michael christopher]

Alright, I will give this thread a break as I see there is not an effort being put forth for constructive commentary.

Besides, this thread (and all those like it) are not about me or the Masons being correct.

It is for all the other people who read them - and what they come away with. After all, we are both propagating our belief systems, so let the chips fall were they may. ;)

Is the commentary not constructive because it doesn't agree with you?

I find my commentary to be constructive, others can take it however they want. Perhaps it is destructive of certain viewpoints, but that doesn't mean the commentary should be disregarded.

[grandsecretary]

Alright, I will give this thread a break as I see there is not an effort being put forth for constructive commentary.

Besides, this thread (and all those like it) are not about me or the Masons being correct.

It is for all the other people who read them - and what they come away with. After all, we are both propagating our belief systems, so let the chips fall were they may. ;)

I am helping as much as I can, and enjoying our exchanges which are refreshingly pleasant and polite.

[eastbeast]

So, his friend is a Mason then? And that would not increase his likelihood of being one himself?

There is that possibilty of course, however, I think Simon would not be able to stay inside the Lodge for long enough to see a complete ceremony and thereby even complete his initiation. Have you noticed as soon as the ad break starts he jumps up out of his seat to go for a cigarette! :D

Any way according to popular conspiracy lore he would have to be a 33 degree or above. :rolleyes:

[eastbeast]

Try posing your fingers like Simon Cowell, or even Paula Abdul - pretty awkward stuff.


Well I used to very frequently rest my hand in exactly the same pose as Simon many many years before becoming a Freemason.

Paula Abdul a Freemason though?
If she is could I get some dance lessons from her.......no bad idea.....I couldn't stop myself from letting her seduce me......

[grandsecretary]

Well I used to very frequently rest my hand in exactly the same pose as Simon many many years before becoming a Freemason.

Paula Abdul a Freemason though?
If she is could I get some dance lessons from her.......no bad idea.....I couldn't stop myself from letting her seduce me......

Her guide dog can sleep under the bed. :)

[eastbeast]

Her guide dog can sleep under the bed. :)


Given that she finds shapeshifting aliens rather attractive I can always change my appearance. I wouldn't expect her to find Compasses Square and a big 'G' attractive so I was planning something different.

Course I could just save time and poke her eyes out......

[grandsecretary]

This link provides us with an insight into the truth about the Illuminati. It is a verbatim report of a interview with Professor Massimo Introvigne the founder
of the Center for Studies on New Religions. He is also the author of the Encyclopedia delle religioni.

http://www.zenit.org/article-13133?l=english

He answers a number of questions that have been posed here in respect of the Illuminati.

He is a highly qualified, massively well informed and an erudite speaker. What he says should carry a great deal of weight with all of us.

It behoves us all to listen to what peope like Massimo Introvigne has to say. Please read the interview carefully.

[barney_rubble]

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/12_03/cowell2BIG_468x601.jpg

Like the words often quoted here on this site that picture has been taken out of context! The rest of the set begin to make the uncertainty of the proposition clearer:

Here's the original story: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-503210/A-year-Simon-Cowell-loses-man-boobs-Christmas.html

You'll notice that the jetskis are not Cowell's, he and the girl get on them, use them, get off them then leave them to their owners. So we can see that the preliminary evidence that you have been given has, in fact, been manipulated. Possibly to fit an agenda, I wonder.




I knew when I posted that picture it would cause a fuss.
This came up on another forum I visit back in Dec 2007 when the pictures came out.

This was the conclusion that a number of us came to after some digging:


These pictures were taking at a Club in Barbados reportedly named Sandy Lane Resort.

The Sandy Lane Hotel (in some articles) is owned by John McManus and Dermot Desmond.

Some articles state "the owners of the Sandy Lane Hotel are masons."

Others report that Dermot Desmond is a mason (no mention of John McManus),
but none of us could find "proof" that Desmond or McManus is/was a mason.



That is it! So it appears Simon stayed at a resort (perhaps co-owned by a mason or masons) that rented out Jet-Skis with the Square and Compasses on them.

How does any of this reflect on Simon Cowell or any of his endeavors in life?

Showing this image is a sort of "Pavlov's dog" experiment for me.

[grandsecretary]

These pictures were taking at a Club in Barbados reportedly named Sandy Lane Resort.

The Sandy Lane Hotel (in some articles) is owned by John McManus and Dermot Desmond.

Some articles state "the owners of the Sandy Lane Hotel are masons."

Other report that Dermot Desmond is a mason (no mention of John McManus), but none of us could find "proof" that Desmond or McManus is/was a mason.

So it appears Simon stayed at a resort (perhaps co-owned by a mason or masons) that rented out Jet-Skis with the Square and Compasses on them.

Makes absolute sense. NEXT!

[barney_rubble]

Makes absolute sense. NEXT!
I just like to make the anti's drool sometimes

[gtycoon]

ermmm, is this thread about the hell fire club?

I was about to drop a bombshell and PM people URLS about members of the Mason who are recruiting women.

Approx 5k budget per girl. I personally know 12 girls who have been used for corporate leaders, masons, and more.

The thread has turned into a symbols thread.
Should I create A NEW ONE?

[mike martin]

I was about to drop a bombshell and PM people URLS about members of the Mason who are recruiting women.

Approx 5k budget per girl. I personally know 12 girls who have been used for corporate leaders, masons, and more.

The thread has turned into a symbols thread.
Should I create A NEW ONE?

Well the symbolism bit has died away, so yeah go, go for it.

I for one could do with another laugh.

Mike

[dawnismygoddess]

I am sorry for getting your thread off track, gtycoon. :(

[gtycoon]

I am sorry for getting your thread off track, gtycoon. :(

No problem. I can give you url via PM with explanation. I would also like you to use Proxy of you choice to access the sites because I don't want webmaster from masonic site coming back here.

I would also like that you not pm anyone in forum just yet with this info.

[mike martin]

No problem. I can give you url via PM with explanation. I would also like you to use Proxy of you choice to access the sites because I don't want webmaster from masonic site coming back here.

I would also like that you not pm anyone in forum just yet with this info.

So is that secret or private?

Just checking:D

Mike

[dawnismygoddess]

No problem. I can give you url via PM with explanation. I would also like you to use Proxy of you choice to access the sites because I don't want webmaster from masonic site coming back here.

I would also like that you not pm anyone in forum just yet with this info.

Thanks for the offer. What exactly do you mean by a "proxy of your choice"?

[gtycoon]

I was contacted by one of the girls today. She said her ex boyfriend who lives near her , saw the mason creeping around her house. She called me and told me he was sending her emails and asking who was over her house (jealous guy stuff).

I seems to me that he is keeping track of her sexual habits to make sure she does not get a VD. Hes spent over 50 on her so far and has several other girls.
The fact that he has other girls leads me to believe hes a handler.

[lightgiver]

Hell Fire and Freemasonry
There was a distinctly love - hate relationship between Freemasonry and the plethora of hell fire clubs which blossomed in the British Isles in the eighteenth century.

The hell fire clubs were a satanic, or perhaps pseudo-satanic, extrapolation of the clubs frequented by young members of the aristocracy which engaged in often violent and sometimes murderous pranks against unfortunate victims with impunity because of their social standing and economic position. Drinking and whoring were also standard activities for these clubs. The hell fire clubs took the debauchery one step further by adding black masses and other satanic rites to their repertoire.

The Seventeenth century context in which the hell fire clubs were formed was the same as that which saw the creation and development of Grand Lodge, the umbrella body which would come to oversee a dramatic growth in the number of Masonic lodges so it is not surprising that there were overlaps in the memberships of the two types of organisation. The hell fire clubs took their generic name from that of one early example of their type. The Hell Fire Club was founded in 1719 by two prominent Freemasons; the Duke of Wharton and George Lee, the Earl of Litchfield. This club initially met in the Greyhound Tavern in London and later at another drinking hole called the George and Vulture.

Another Freemason and a close friend of the Duke of Wharton, the Earl of Rosse was instrumental behind establishing the Dublin Hell Fire Club. Rosse subsequently became the Grand Master of Ireland’s Freemasons.

By 1722 both the government (in 1919) and Grand Lodge had condemned the Hell Fire Club and similar societies for their disruptive activities and effectively driven the former underground. Nevertheless, despite his known association with the Hell Fire Club, Wharton was able to secure election as Grand Master of the English Grand Lodge and served in this position from 1722 to 1723.

Wharton’s period as Grand Master was undistinguished and he seems to have gained a reputation for being a liability. His support for Freemasonry continued for several years afterwards however and his most important contribution was perhaps in 1928 when, by virtue of establishing a lodge in Madrid he introduced the fraternity to Spain. In that same year Wharton, who was evidently spending much of his time on the continent, became the first Grand Master of Freemasonry in France.

Wharton’s relationship with Freemasonry appears to have blown hot and cold. Prior to becoming a Masonic ‘missionary’ in spain, Wharton probably founded and at the very least became a member of a rival fraternity known as the Society of Gormogons. The Gormogons were outspokenly anti-Masonic whilst parodying Freemasonry in their own activities.

Just as Freemasonry had its legend, so did the Gormogons, claiming to have been founded by the first Chinese Emperor. It was in fact probably founded in 1724. Freemasons who joined the Gormogons were expected to renounce Masonry and burn their Masonic apron and gloves immediately prior to their initiation into the Gormogons. Newspaper reports at the time claim that several Masons went through this process and at least one of these seems to have been Wharton.

The Gormogons met in the Castle Tavern, Fleet Street, London and claimed the Czar of Russia among their initiates. Despite much media hype at the time and speculation since the Gormogons seem to have been little more than an anti-Masonic prank. As such they set a pattern for hell fire club members ridiculing Freemasonry through stunts.

Wharton's love hate relationship with Freemasonry seems to have done him little harm in establishment circles as, in 1741, he became a Knight of the Garter.

The most well known of the Hell Fire Clubs was the Order of St. Francis, named after their charismatic founder Sir Francis Dashwood, member of Parliament and a Freemason. Dashwood, along with eleven others (collectively dubbed the Unholy Twelve) founded their club sometime in the mid 1740’s. From 1750 they met at a disused Cistercian abbey at Medmenham. Meetings began with a black mass and ended with an orgy with a variety of other dubious entertainments in between.

Dashwood’s Franciscans included many of the establishment figures of the day including a prime minister, Chancellor of the Exchequer and at least one other cabinet minister. Aside from Dashwood amongst those who held duel membership with the Freemasons were the politician John Wilkes, the artist William Hogarth and the American polymath Benjamin Franklin.

Another Freemason and Franciscan was the intriguing Chevalier D’Eon. D’Eon was androgenous and provoked no end of curiosity in both France and Britain at the time. D’Eon exploited his reputation and as a result was able to move in high society. It was a dangerous game however. Such was the curiosity about his (or her) true nature and the intensity of debate surrounding it, that many began betting on D’Eon’s true sex and huge sums were soon riding on the result. Fearing that he would be kidnapped by those wishing to settle the debate (and possibly win their wagers) D’Eon sought protection and received it from no less a person than a Masonic Grand Master, Lord Ferrers, who held that post from 1762 to 1764.

D’Eon was actually a member of a French lodge L’Immortalite de l’Ordre. His membership of the Order of St. Francis appears to have been marginal but as someone who bucked sexual convention simply by being himself he was likely to always have been a welcome guest at the Order’s meetings.

One of the less privileged members of the Order was Paul Whitehead. Whitehead was a writer and a satirist. In 1742 in collaboration with one Henry Carey, virtually unknown today but in fact the man who write the lyrics to the national anthem), Whitehead set up a parade of beggars, prostitutes and others, all wearing Masonic regalia to walk the proposed route of a Masonic procession immediately prior to the Masons themselves.

The effect of the bogus procession was just as Whitehead and Carey desired, much ridicule was heaped upon the fraternity with the media dubbing Whitehead and Carey’s procession the ‘scald and miserable Masons’. Similar stunts at Freemasonry’s expense were organised in the following years and so embarassed were the Masons that Whitehead and Carey’s joke and its aftermath would have a legacy lasting until today. In 1747 having suffered several years of ridicule Grand Lodge decreed that none of its members should participate in public processions wearing Masonic regalia. Ironically this measure, aimed at protecting the fraternity from ridicule, has only served to hide Freemasonry behind lodge doors and thus invite even more negative speculation about what Masons really do in their secret world.

A history produced by the United Grand Lodge of England for its 250th anniversary, Grand Lodge 1717-1967, cited the explanation for this prohibition, from a 1784 copy of the Constitutions:

“The occasion for this prudent regulation was, that some unfaithful brethren disappointed in their expectations of high offices and honours of the society, had joined a number of buffoons of the day, in a scheme to exhibit a mockery of the public procession to the grand feast.”

This might imply that Whitehead had been a Mason. If indeed Whitehead had been disappointed in his expectations of high office within Freemasonry, he need not have worried where the Order of St. Francis was concerned. Despite the presence of many Freemasons among their number already, Dashwood and the Franciscans heartily approved of Whitehead’s sense of humour and invited him to join the Order. Moreover Whitehead soon became the Order’s secretary.

[endlessvista]

There was a branch of the Helfire Club in the mountains looking over Dublin.

The Hellfire Club (or Club thine Ifrinn in Irish) is the name given to a ruined building that sits near the summit of Montpelier,[1] a hill in the Dublin Mountains, County Dublin, Ireland. It was built around 1725 by William Conolly, the speaker of the Irish House of Commons who purchased the land from Philip Wharton, 1st Duke of Wharton.[2] Believed to have been constructed as a hunting lodge (the grounds comprised a 1,000 acre (4 km²) deer park), the building acted as a viewpoint for Conolly's mansion at Castletown House, Celbridge, County Kildare.[3] The building consists of two large rooms and a hall on the upper floor with a kitchen and servant's hall on the lower floor.[2] The house was originally called “Mount Pelier”, the name now given to the hill upon which it stands; the original Irish name of the hill is unknown.[4] Believed to have been used as a meeting place for the Irish Hellfire Club, the area has a reputation for being associated with Satanism, the supernatural and the occult.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3160/2963367279_7659bac0bd.jpg?v=0

[kenny_bubb]

Hell Fire and Freemasonry
There was a distinctly love - hate relationship between Freemasonry and the plethora of hell fire clubs which blossomed in the British Isles in the eighteenth century.

The hell fire clubs were a satanic, or perhaps pseudo-satanic, extrapolation of the clubs frequented by young members of the aristocracy which engaged in often violent and sometimes murderous pranks against unfortunate victims with impunity because of their social standing and economic position. Drinking and whoring were also standard activities for these clubs. The hell fire clubs took the debauchery one step further by adding black masses and other satanic rites to their repertoire.

The Seventeenth century context in which the hell fire clubs were formed was the same as that which saw the creation and development of Grand Lodge, the umbrella body which would come to oversee a dramatic growth in the number of Masonic lodges so it is not surprising that there were overlaps in the memberships of the two types of organisation. The hell fire clubs took their generic name from that of one early example of their type. The Hell Fire Club was founded in 1719 by two prominent Freemasons; the Duke of Wharton and George Lee, the Earl of Litchfield. This club initially met in the Greyhound Tavern in London and later at another drinking hole called the George and Vulture.

Another Freemason and a close friend of the Duke of Wharton, the Earl of Rosse was instrumental behind establishing the Dublin Hell Fire Club. Rosse subsequently became the Grand Master of Ireland’s Freemasons.

By 1722 both the government (in 1919) and Grand Lodge had condemned the Hell Fire Club and similar societies for their disruptive activities and effectively driven the former underground. Nevertheless, despite his known association with the Hell Fire Club, Wharton was able to secure election as Grand Master of the English Grand Lodge and served in this position from 1722 to 1723.

Wharton’s period as Grand Master was undistinguished and he seems to have gained a reputation for being a liability. His support for Freemasonry continued for several years afterwards however and his most important contribution was perhaps in 1928 when, by virtue of establishing a lodge in Madrid he introduced the fraternity to Spain. In that same year Wharton, who was evidently spending much of his time on the continent, became the first Grand Master of Freemasonry in France.

Wharton’s relationship with Freemasonry appears to have blown hot and cold. Prior to becoming a Masonic ‘missionary’ in spain, Wharton probably founded and at the very least became a member of a rival fraternity known as the Society of Gormogons. The Gormogons were outspokenly anti-Masonic whilst parodying Freemasonry in their own activities.

Just as Freemasonry had its legend, so did the Gormogons, claiming to have been founded by the first Chinese Emperor. It was in fact probably founded in 1724. Freemasons who joined the Gormogons were expected to renounce Masonry and burn their Masonic apron and gloves immediately prior to their initiation into the Gormogons. Newspaper reports at the time claim that several Masons went through this process and at least one of these seems to have been Wharton.

The Gormogons met in the Castle Tavern, Fleet Street, London and claimed the Czar of Russia among their initiates. Despite much media hype at the time and speculation since the Gormogons seem to have been little more than an anti-Masonic prank. As such they set a pattern for hell fire club members ridiculing Freemasonry through stunts.

Wharton's love hate relationship with Freemasonry seems to have done him little harm in establishment circles as, in 1741, he became a Knight of the Garter.

The most well known of the Hell Fire Clubs was the Order of St. Francis, named after their charismatic founder Sir Francis Dashwood, member of Parliament and a Freemason. Dashwood, along with eleven others (collectively dubbed the Unholy Twelve) founded their club sometime in the mid 1740’s. From 1750 they met at a disused Cistercian abbey at Medmenham. Meetings began with a black mass and ended with an orgy with a variety of other dubious entertainments in between.

Dashwood’s Franciscans included many of the establishment figures of the day including a prime minister, Chancellor of the Exchequer and at least one other cabinet minister. Aside from Dashwood amongst those who held duel membership with the Freemasons were the politician John Wilkes, the artist William Hogarth and the American polymath Benjamin Franklin.

Another Freemason and Franciscan was the intriguing Chevalier D’Eon. D’Eon was androgenous and provoked no end of curiosity in both France and Britain at the time. D’Eon exploited his reputation and as a result was able to move in high society. It was a dangerous game however. Such was the curiosity about his (or her) true nature and the intensity of debate surrounding it, that many began betting on D’Eon’s true sex and huge sums were soon riding on the result. Fearing that he would be kidnapped by those wishing to settle the debate (and possibly win their wagers) D’Eon sought protection and received it from no less a person than a Masonic Grand Master, Lord Ferrers, who held that post from 1762 to 1764.

D’Eon was actually a member of a French lodge L’Immortalite de l’Ordre. His membership of the Order of St. Francis appears to have been marginal but as someone who bucked sexual convention simply by being himself he was likely to always have been a welcome guest at the Order’s meetings.

One of the less privileged members of the Order was Paul Whitehead. Whitehead was a writer and a satirist. In 1742 in collaboration with one Henry Carey, virtually unknown today but in fact the man who write the lyrics to the national anthem), Whitehead set up a parade of beggars, prostitutes and others, all wearing Masonic regalia to walk the proposed route of a Masonic procession immediately prior to the Masons themselves.

The effect of the bogus procession was just as Whitehead and Carey desired, much ridicule was heaped upon the fraternity with the media dubbing Whitehead and Carey’s procession the ‘scald and miserable Masons’. Similar stunts at Freemasonry’s expense were organised in the following years and so embarassed were the Masons that Whitehead and Carey’s joke and its aftermath would have a legacy lasting until today. In 1747 having suffered several years of ridicule Grand Lodge decreed that none of its members should participate in public processions wearing Masonic regalia. Ironically this measure, aimed at protecting the fraternity from ridicule, has only served to hide Freemasonry behind lodge doors and thus invite even more negative speculation about what Masons really do in their secret world.

A history produced by the United Grand Lodge of England for its 250th anniversary, Grand Lodge 1717-1967, cited the explanation for this prohibition, from a 1784 copy of the Constitutions:

“The occasion for this prudent regulation was, that some unfaithful brethren disappointed in their expectations of high offices and honours of the society, had joined a number of buffoons of the day, in a scheme to exhibit a mockery of the public procession to the grand feast.”

This might imply that Whitehead had been a Mason. If indeed Whitehead had been disappointed in his expectations of high office within Freemasonry, he need not have worried where the Order of St. Francis was concerned. Despite the presence of many Freemasons among their number already, Dashwood and the Franciscans heartily approved of Whitehead’s sense of humour and invited him to join the Order. Moreover Whitehead soon became the Order’s secretary.

Awww, he entered "Hell Fire Club and Freemasonery" into Google and cut and pasted this all by himself.
Who's a clever boy!:)

[boots]

Awww, he entered "Hell Fire Club and Freemasonery" into Google and cut and pasted this all by himself.
Who's a clever boy!:)

Bit of a dickhead aren't you.:rolleyes: You only troll here and think it's funny too.

I'll be praying for the day you get banned. It wont take too long.

.

[thelonious]

Awww, he entered "Hell Fire Club and Freemasonery" into Google and cut and pasted this all by himself.
Who's a clever boy!:)

lol.

It would have been more clever for him to have provided a link. But he seems to prefer plagairism, as he engages in it in practically every post.

[lightgiver]

Awww, he entered "Hell Fire Club and Freemasonery" into Google and cut and pasted this all by himself.
Who's a clever boy!:)

Well you are definitely not clever,one as to know what they are looking for ,and you definitely do not,well show me where it is then?on google.

What a shill.

Who is Kenny Bubb on this forum ?

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51721

a big jealous boy,

I was always taught to be cautious.

At the time that Joshua fought the battles of the lord,when it was in this position he prayed fervently to the almighty to continue the light of day,so that he might complete the overthrow of his enemies.

I was always taught to be cautious in this degree as well as the former.I will letter or halve it with you,
.
As it is the hope of reward that sweetens labour,where did our ancient brethren go to receive there wages.

Not to blubbys house for sure,you are diffident and lack scruples with your shallowness of character,you and the lonius.

Children have more Intelligence than you pair you sound like children with your childish Intellect, IE name calling How pathetic.

It appears one of your favourite pastimes is coming on here and putting forum members down,yes you do need sorting out.

[lightgiver]

lol.

It would have been more clever for him to have provided a link. But he seems to prefer plagairism, as he engages in it in practically every post.

It appears you cannot even spell,it is plagiarism you fool:p:D:D

It appears you masons have problems with spelling,but not with deceit.

I am above and beyond your degrees.:D

Maybe I wrote it.

It appears Pike used to do a lot of plagiarising.

[thelonious]

Maybe I wrote it.


Don't think so, sonny.

[kenny_bubb]

Maybe I wrote it.

Er, or maybe not. As I pointed out in my original post - which was making a point - simply type "The Hellfire Club and Freemasonery' into Google and the third link down takes you straight to the plagiarized work.

You should credit and reference sources during a rational debate. It's important in terms of providing a perspective to the point of view being expressed.

[grandsecretary]

lightgiver. You seem to believe that you are being clever quoting little snippets of the Moderns rituals. These are all freely available, to anyone, from any Masonic bookshop or simply by using google? What is the point?

[lightgiver]

Ha Ha LOL,what's the point of you lot being on a conspiracy forum :p:D

Like I say I am above your little clubs.

Keep trying the lonious and co.

How do you think I am being clever?,this info I give is for people on here, non masons who do not have much understanding of masonry,nothing clever about that,I feel you are forgetting the forum you are on,this is not a mason forum.

The info is for others not for you lot because you obviously know these google snippets,it strange how I have never seen them on here,or google.

You see Thelonious and co are like rough ashlars and I am a very perfect ashlar.

TBH the lonious and co are not setting good examples of faith hope and charity.

Maybe abuse is more up their street.

and kenny blubb only pops up now and then to rant some small minded abuse and that's about all he does do.

and bubb and lonious are not the ones I am fond of debating with ever,and I will provide nothing to them whatsoever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msMXW414Yds

well maybe this.:D:D

[boots]

Ha Ha LOL,what's the point of you lot being on a conspiracy forum :p:D

Like I say I am above your little clubs.

Keep trying the lonious and co.

How do you think I am being clever?,this info I give is for people on here, non masons who do not have much understanding of masonry,nothing clever about that,I feel you are forgetting the forum you are on,this is not a mason forum.

The info is for others not for you lot because you obviously know these google snippets,it strange how I have never seen them on here,or google.

You see Thelonious and co are like rough ashlars and I am a very perfect ashlar.

TBH the lonious and co are not setting good examples of faith hope and charity.

Maybe abuse is more up their street.

and kenny blubb only pops up now and then to rant some small minded abuse and that's about all he does do.

and bubb and lonious are not the ones I am fond of debating with ever,and I will provide nothing to them whatsoever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msMXW414Yds
well maybe this.:D:D

I agree with 100% LG.

Want do you think there playing at?? The mason's that infect this forum think they are going to change anyone's perceptions of the 33 degree masons and their devious plans for a NWO.?? Hardly likely. They never entertain the fact that there is a NWO or that there is a plan for it unfolding before our very eye's. They never look into what David Icke has written about. They actually dismiss him as a nutter, without ever saying it.

Who do the fuck they think they are? They treat this sub forum as there own MASONIC forum and the other member's here as intruder's.

Well fuck that, enough is enough. The administration team ort to do something about it. THIS BULLSHIT HAS GONE ON FOR LONG ENOUGH.

If you have a cancer in the body then you do something about it, you dont let it take over.

No one here ever get's to post anything on secret societies or the Illuminati because it is quickly sunk down to the next page. Thanks to the trolling and dribble the mason's go on with.

People talk about shill's troll's and disinfo agent's. Well here it is in plain site, smack in your face. Cunt's just sit back and do NOTHING about it.


.

[cheeney1]

Awww, he entered "Hell Fire Club and Freemasonery" into Google and cut and pasted this all by himself.
Who's a clever boy!:)


The post made by Lightgiver is Quite Good, whether he wrote it or not,
as for you, you sound like all the Masonic Trolls here

go back to the lodge you jafa :rolleyes:

[thelonious]

lightgiver. You seem to believe that you are being clever

Yes, he certainly has himself fooled, along with his fan club members.

These people appear to be programmed and indoctrinated in a manner I've never seen before. They do not seem capable of even considering the possibility that they're wrong, which shows how much in darkness they really are.

[boots]

Yes, he certainly has himself fooled, along with his fan club members.

These people appear to be programmed and indoctrinated in a manner I've never seen before. They do not seem capable of even considering the possibility that they're wrong, which shows how much in darkness they really are.

Talking about your self again.

Must be the satanic energies getting to you. It happens when you are being used.


.

[boots]

Some of the women involved may have been Eastern Star who were introduced to fellow male Masons both male and female may have been selected Elite family blood lines to reproduce "inter generational" Freemason off spring.
A sort of Masonic Introduction agency.
have heard that 3rd generation Masons are chosen to rise to the higher levels, or the side degrees/Lodges, which some are said to be secret orders/Lodges, Not known to their fellow Masons in the regular Lodges.

I think you can go visit the Hell fire caves, Medmenham Hall Buckinghamshire, where some of the rituals are said to have taken place.

Edit - The sex rituals may have been a way to attract certain souls to reincarnate, into chosen bloodlines.


They are part of the elite satanic rituals. The hell fire club was a perfect example.

Benjamin Franklin was a member.

.

[lightgiver]

Yes, he certainly has himself fooled, along with his fan club members.

These people appear to be programmed and indoctrinated in a manner I've never seen before. They do not seem capable of even considering the possibility that they're wrong, which shows how much in darkness they really are.

Still waffling I see,you never give up do you,it is rather tedious and boring,do you think by now we know what you are up to:D

What exactly are you trying to promote on the D Icke forum,you have a lot of cheek going on about indoctrination,a bit hypocritical coming from a so called mason,have you actually read any of the books of the said persons name who's forum you are on?

We wont get fooled again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUbGLVvfB7Y

Tubal cain,pass word from the 2nd to 3rd degree,one must be careful to remember this,otherwise one cannot gain admittance into a lodge in a superior degree.

I wonder if that is foolish , clever or even off google,well yes one can get it off google,nowt secret about that.:D

Tubal cain was the first artificer in metals.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous.

[luciferhorus]

What exactly are you trying to promote on the D Icke forum, you have a lot of cheek going on about indoctrination,a bit hypocritical coming from a so called mason,have you actually read any of the books of the said persons name who's forum you are on?



To A Christian

Dear Lightbearer

I will not ask you the same question since I am quite sure that you are familiar with David Icke's writings. I have several of his works and have followed his 'mission' and his writings over the years.

You seem to be the most verbal of the hardcore anti-Masonic Christians here, so I thought it was about time we had a chat.

The Historical Jesus and the Christ Myth

You are probably aware that David (Icke)'s position is that the historical Jesus is a myth, but a very powerful myth never the less, which has been used to hypnotise the masses and to exploit and enslave them. The masters of war and Capital of this world have long since hidden behind that myth and claimed to represent him, just as today the heads of state of the most powerful imperialistic military alliance in all of known history (the Anglo-American state terrorists) are both Christians (Obama and Windsor).

Defensor Fides (Defender of the Faith)

It is not only Masonic cultists who are here to defend their Capitalist cult from the likes of David Icke and those who share his views, but I notice that this forum is also full of Christians who are apparently here to defend, at least to some degree, Icke's judgement on the Masonic cultists, though apparently in general the Christians here do not seem to share David's views on Jesus and are also here to defend their ridiculous faith and their ridiculous god.

I must point out that I do not 'totally' share Icke's view on the non-existence of the historical Jesus for a very simple reason.

Archetype

It is an accepted historical fact that 2000 years ago there were many Messianic revolutionaries who sought to expel the Roman Imperialists from Israel and indeed also to overthrow their own Israelite priesthood and monarch and to set up a Messianic kingdom.

There were three major rebellions against Rome. The response to the 'Great Revolt' in 66 A.D. by the Emperor Nero was brutal and genocidal; there were mass crucifixions, Jerusalem was all but destroyed; there was general mayhem, mass gang-rape, torture and murder; there were mass crucifixions and around 100,000 Israelites were taken as slaves, many ending their days as entertainment as victims of the cruel blood sports of the Roman circuses.

If we remove the myths and miracles from the Gospels we find an anti-Capitalist, anti-monetarist archetypal Israelite revolutionary who sought revolution against the religious authorities and the economic elites of his age.

What is so hard to believe about that? There were so many like him then and have been since.

The Evil of Christian Capitalism

Let us skip ahead 2000 years. I will not bore you with the details of the blood soaked history of that vile and worthless religion of Christianity, their crusades and inquisitions, their tyrants and holocausts.

The post WW2 history of Latin America is full of such heroic figures of the ilk of the Israelite revolutionaries of 2000 years ago. Rivers of blood have been shed from the veins of the anti-Capitalist martyrs at the hands of the American Christian state terrorists in their lust for imperial power and authority through their coups and neo-fascist revolutions for the purposes placing their chosen puppet dictators in power.

Sexual Revolution

On this thread you are making an issue over someone who was very sexually liberated for his time and who allegedly engaged in sexual orgies. I think that you are missing the point entirely.

I really don't consider David (Icke) to be a person who has his head stuck up his ass over matters of sexual morality; on the contrary.

Sexual revolution is required to throw off the chains of the slave morality imposed by the priests and tyrants to control their slaves.

Marraige is no more than legalised prostitution; monogamy is totally against human nature; these are the rules a master gives to a slave.

Sexual Communism (polyamory) is the natural alternative which the future world must embrace in order to fully break the chains of what Nietzsche defined as 'slave morality;' the imposed morality and sexual laws of the slavemasters and the priesthood.

Economic Imperialism

"For every slave a master; for every master a slave"

I entirely concur with David's analysis of the economic power of Capitalism; it not is 'just' an economic phenomenon, but also one of religious cultism where the slaves are bound to the Masters of Capitalist revolution.

What most of these people do in their secret ceremonies can be uncovered by reading their rituals. They are so boring it is unbelievable. If they really were having sex orgies their membership would not be dwindling and it would not be full of pompous, arrogant, boring old fools selling each other esoteric titles; there are certain things that one simply cannot buy with Capitalist coin.

The issue with the ancient Romans was not their liberated view of sex (for I share their much of their enlightened views on almost all matters sexual and consensual); it was their economic imperialism and the extent to which they were willing to go to maintain and expand their empire and the rivers of blood they shed in their lust for the rewards given by the god of Capital.

So too it is today with Anglo-American Christian state terrorism / narco-terrorism.

De Ville (Broken French: Of the City). The Devils of the City. The Priesthood of Capital

The City of London is very much a Masonic institution; it is Capitalism's heart with it's fine buildings and several hundred Masonic Lodges. There you will find the Lodges where the loan-sharking elites of Capitalism perform their rituals and where they eat and drink in their fine restaurants and bars, profiting from the economic enslavement of humanity; these 'good and true' priests of the god of Capital.

From their multi million dollar buildings they can watch the wars of Capitalist Imperialism for oil and opium on their colour televisions from the comfort of their offices. These parasites; these useless eaters; these morally worthless repugnant vermin; these living Capitalist demons who earn their living from the blood and toil and slavery of humanity; demons they are I am of no doubt, but they are certainly not reptiles as Icke believes, and it has absolutely nothing to do with their sex lives or their stupid, boring, infantile rituals and the pompous Masonic titles they buy and sell for capitalist coin.


The Christ Demon

Icke is entirely correct about the mythical Christ; he is a myth, an invention, an excuse for imperialism, a means to hypnotise the masses. As far as I am concerned Christ is just another a Capitalist demon who demands his slaves to submit themselves to their Capitalist masters and rewards their obedience in Capitalist heaven.

The Jesus Archetype: The Anti-Capitalist Martyr

The historical Jesus on the other hand is a separate issue to the demon who is the Capitalist Christ and the god of our monarch; in the historical Jesus archetype we find an anti-Capitalist martyr, very much in the spirit of many modern anti-Capitalist martyrs who have died at the hands of the Christian state terrorists and their puppet tyrants in their economic colonies.

Whether Jesus actually existed or not is irrelevant; we can neither prove nor disprove; what we can be certain of is that there were so many like him and that he represents the historical archetype of the anti-Capitalist martyr.

Anti-Christian

As much as I am an evangelical anti-Christian and despise Christianity and the Capitalist Christ with all my heart, and have dedicated much of my life's work, my magick and my propaganda to all peoples and nations to the future eradication of Christianity, I do realise that among the Christians, particularly the Anarchist Christians and Liberation Theologians (Communist Christians) there are those who share my views on the historical Jesus and who in many ways are much like the Jesus archetype, but this has absolutely nothing to do with the Christ myth, his Capitalist god, his church, his priesthood and his ridiculous theology.

The enemy of my enemy

In the 1930's the Communists and Nazi's were both attacking the Weimar government; they had a common enemy, but their methods and their agenda were entirely different. Similarly you and I have a common enemy, but it seems to be for different reasons; and that is why I do not rush to defend you when the Masons here ridicule you and slag you off. Among them are also anti-Christians like myself but just as it was with the Nazis and the Communists, we have an entirely different agenda.

Machiavelli

Machiavelli's advice was that in times of conflict 'always take sides' and never remain neutral.

I must make it clear I wish to see the future eradication of both the Masons and the Christians, since they are both Capitalists and I consider them both to be enemies of the forthcoming Final Revolutionary War of Economic Salvation; however, since the Masons represent a very powerful religious cult with a wealth of nations, they are very much the Goliath and you Lightbearer are the David, just as the Muslims with their kalishnikovs and their guerilla methods are very much the David against the cowardly mercenaries of the Anglo-American state terrorists who fight only for Capitalist coin and who hide in their armoured cars, behind bullet proof vests and who rain fire from the sky on woman and children.

I am not a fan of Islam at all, but I am obliged to support their resistance war against the common and more powerful enemy, the Christian Capitalist state terrorists, for much the same reason that the Christian state terrorists financed and armed the Islamic militants in their war against the Soviets.

So if you get tired of the abuse from the Masonic vermin and their defenders, you can always have a chat with me about the Communist, Liberation Theology view of Jesus, Anarchist Christianity and Marxist Christianity, etc.; they are among my pet subjects and I come fully equipped with a graduate degree in Theological and Religious Studies / History.


LL

Lux

Lux e tenebris
Ordo ab chaos

http://www.luciferia.tv/animation/A.gif

Fire, plague and poisoned waters.
Revolution in all the World.
No mercy on they who deserve none.

http://www.luciferia.tv/1ChildrenOftheSlaves/jesus_bush.gif




Addendum: On the Knight's Templars and the Christ Demon

I should point out further that in order to gain admittance to the 10th level of the York Rite of English Masonry, that it is necessary to profess faith in the Christian Christ demon; the Knight's Templars (the 10th level) is entirely a Christian Capitalist order; all this these vermin do in the name of Jesus

Sadducees

Who allegedly placed the reward for Jesus' arrest?

The Sadducees were the priestly aristocrats of their age who sought to retain their wealth and power by submitting to and collaborating with the Romans. The Temple's highest authorities were the council of the 'Sanhedrin' who were the upper echelons of the Solomonic Temple ritualists ; these were the priesthood of Solomon; the alleged descendents of Zadok who according to the legend anointed the magickian Solomon as king.

2000 years later the contemporary equivalent of the Sadducees are the Masons; it is these parasites who are the inheritors of the ritualistic legacy of Solomonic Temple cultism who today claim to represent he (Jesus) whom their forefathers had tortured and murdered.


Hypnotised Innocents

Many of the Christian Capitalists on the Internet are merely confused, barely educated, barely literate, hypnotised by the priesthood of Capital and unable to perceive the historical truth of the revolutionary Israelites behind the myth; many are just hypnotised innocents who need to be awoken with simple historical truths.

It is hardly so for the Masons; as is apparent here; they are among the most educated people in human history; they are hardly lacking in intelligence, education, literacy and a knowledge of history; their evil and hypocrisy is thus in my judgement entirely premeditated and without excuse.

Woe to the Templars. Great and Terrible shall be their Judgement. Great shall be the wrath of the armies of Heaven and the Seven Angels of the Apocalypse on their Kingdom; their great city shall turn to dust in the blink of an eye and in time not one stone shall be left upon another of their Temples to the god of Capital.

Love and Light

Lucifer


[I]"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."............" "Many will say to Me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me you workers of iniquity.' "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. "And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.

Matthew 7:13-27

http://www.luciferia.tv/1ChildrenOftheSlaves/iraqitorture.gif


Video Link : Zeitgeist. An introduction to the Christ myth: based upon Jordan Maxwell's 'The Sons of God,' and an introduction to Anglo-American Christian Capitalism and state terrorism. 2 hours.

See also 'Jordan Maxwell (The myth of Christ)' and the Christian 'Alex Jones (State terrorism)' on video.google

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197

[lightgiver]

No LH I am neither Christian or anti masonic :p:D and neither have I been baptised.

I believe though there was a figure called yeshua or Jesus whatever label one wants to impute on emptiness, as there are good masons also.

Do you work BTW and if you do,do you pay taxes.?

everyone as their own path.

I do enjoy your posts but I do not seek to Impose my views on others,each to their own,everyone will get their karma in the end.

Peace Lg or Lb.:)

[luciferhorus]

No LH I am neither Christian or anti masonic :p:D

I believe though there was a figure called yeshua or Jesus whatever label one wants to impute on emptiness, as there are good masons also..

A good mason by the Communist definition of 'good' would be one who is commited to the eradication of Capital, government and organised religion; if there exists such a Mason I have not heard of him, not come accross him.
..
Do you work BTW and if you do,do you pay taxes.?
..

Well of course Christians should not pay taxes, nor work, nor carry money, nor have more than one robe, no shoes etc., but I am not a Christian.

I think that my lifetime record for paying taxes, VAT, etc., was about £100,000 in a single year; I have worked as a slave of Capital throughout my life; often with great success, but I have since some years now decided to devote my life to creating the conditions for world revolution.

I claim no benefits, I am not unemployed and yes I do work but my work is the Great Work of the Ages; the substantiation of economic heaven on earth and the end of slavery, Capital, organised religion and human misery in general.

I have a number of academic and professional qualifications which could easily earn me the abundance of mammon; I am however uninterested in the accumulation of wealth.

If you are not a Christian, what is with all the ...

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous.

My apologies if I have misunderstood you, but you certainly give the impression that you are a Christian.

Further if you are not anti-Masonic, it is certainly not the impression you give to me and indeed I suspect to the Masons here.

Well Lightgiver, what then is your purpose here, if you don't mind me asking?

LL

Lux

[lightgiver]

I good mason by the Communist definition of 'good' would be one who is commited to the eradication of Capital, government and organised religion; if there exists such a Mason I have not heard of him, not come accross him.
..

Well of course Christians should not pay taxes, nor work, nor carry money, nor have more than one robe, no shoes etc., but I am not a Christian.

I think that my lifetime record for paying taxes, VAT, etc., was about £100,000 in a single year; I have worked as a slave of Capital throughout my life; often with great success, but I have since some years now decided to devote my life to creating the conditions for world revolution.

I claim no benefits, I am not unemployed and yes I do work but my work is the Great Work of the Ages; the substantiation of economic heaven on earth and the end of slavery, Capital, organised religion and human misery in general.

I have a number of academic and professional qualifications which could easily earn me the abundance of mammon; I am however uninterested in the accumulation of wealth.

If you are not a Christian, what is with all the ...

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous.

My apologies if I have misunderstood you, but you certainly give the impression that you are a Christian.

Further if you are not anti-Masonic, it is certainly not the impression you give to me and indeed I suspect to the Masons here.

Well Lightgiver, what then is your purpose here, if you don't mind me asking?

LL

Lux

My purpose here is to share knowledge and to receive knowledge in hope of one day of freeing the universe from all of its suffering for the benefit of all.:)

I enjoy some of the quotes I read and have had experience of from the bible,and also I respect others paths that they follow,who am I to decide what path others should take.

Peace LG:)

[luciferhorus]

My purpose here is to share knowledge and to receive knowledge in hope of one day of freeing the universe from all of its suffering for the benefit of all.

OK LG, my apologies if I have misundersood you.

LL

Lux

[lightgiver]

The club motto was Fais ce que tu voudras (Do what thou wilt), a philosophy of life associated with François Rabelais' fictional abbey at Thélème and later used by Aleister Crowley.

Aleister Crowley's writings heavily borrow from Rabelais themes.

[verita2012]

the truth

The masons = the hellfire club

The illuminati = the prophecy

The first one is about serving greed and corruption, the later is about serving the truth

[grandsecretary]

the truth

The masons = the hellfire club


This is far too simple.

Of course the first Hellfire Club was founded in 1719 by Philip, Duke of Wharton. He became Grand Master of the newly formed United Grand Lodge of England three years later, 1722, but he was ousted by his political opponents within a matter of months.

Although it was not officially a Masonic organisation, the Hellfire Club was certainly populated and attended by Freemasons.

Why?

These were the times of Jacobite Rebellions and political repression where open discussion of political matters resulted in imprisonment, heavy fines, bancruptcy, loss of titles and status, sequestration of property, exile, execution by hanging.

One of the places where political discussion could take place in absolute secrecy and safety was within a secure Masonic Lodge.

Many Masonic philosophers, writers and free thinkers were engaged in a battle with the Church and Parliament over the thorny subject of illegitimacy and the inheritence of property.

The majority of members of the Hellfire Club were the illegitimate sons of the aristocracy and/or their descendants who were the progeny of Royal "free love". Because of their illegitimacy they were disinherited, their heirs and successors precariously positioned, and often mistreated within high society. These Freemasons, members of the Hellfire Club, were of this type.

The place to discuss and actively plot against repressive laws, otherwise supported by the ruling classes, was in the secret confines of this Hellfire Club. They could not do so within a purely Masonic system governed, as it was, by the legitimate (only in terms of marriage) heirs to England, its lands and its properties (the Hanoverian Royal Family, the established Church and their hangers-on, men such as Theophilus Desaguliers).

So, The Hellfire Club, far from being Masons, per se, were in fact restricted to those disinherited Freemasons and their friends who were opposed to those Freemasons who were the ruling elite supported by the established Church.

Many of the members of The Hellfire Club had names like Fitz-Allen and Fitz-Howard. The prefix Fitz was awarded to those aristocratic families whose ancestors were born out of wedlock, disinherited bastards, paid what they saw as a pittance in order to keep quiet, on pain of death.

They turned their ire against the established Church which they saw as the upholders of the inheritence laws, forming a plotting and protest movement to bring about changes to these laws. Hence the name "Hell Fire Club".

These men were free thinkers, rebels, who demonstrated their opposition to the Church and what they saw as its false morality with its umbilical connection to the Crown, and Parliament with their repressive inheritence (religious) laws. If you were the son of two people who were not married in church, you were a disinherited bastard with an uncertain future. No civil marriages in those days.

Their committment to "free love" open relationships and their demands for illegitimate inheritence is where they gained their reputation for sexual promiscuity and "lose living". The Church termed their meetings "sex orgies" and labelled their women, to whom they were not married, "whores and prostitutes".

Those here, who knock these men now, are supporting those who repressed them: the Crown with its system of "progenitor"; the established Protestant Church; and the present political system which collectively to this very day does not fully recognise the legal status and human rights of illegitimate children, and which still discriminates against those who do not conform to the moral and sexual norms in society. Married Tax Allowance was a subject of debate only this week at the Conservative Party Conference.

In fact, Wharton's club came to an end in 1721 when the German speaking Elector of Hanover, King George I, under the influence of Wharton's political enemies put forward a Bill in Parliament "against horrid impieties" (immorality) aimed DIRECTLY at the Hellfire Club and in defence of the political status quo. Although Wharton was an old fashioned Whig, he was a confirmed Jacobite who supported the Stuart Crown. Part of his fight back was his election to the Grand Mastership of The United Grand Lodge of England, engineered by his Jacobite friends in the Tory Party, but this was viciously quashed at the Annual Feast of 1723.

"Politics and religion were not discussed, as the masons seemed to be following the advice of "that Author" (a reference to Anderson, whose Constitutions had been published...). But at one point the band had begun to play "Let the King enjoy his own again," a popular Jacobite (and thus seditious) tune. The Tories were getting cheeky, talking politics might be banned, but music could make a political point. The band was "immediately reprimanded by a Person of great Gravity and Science," which surely means Desaguliers. After that, Hanoverian decorum was restored - and indeed emphasized." (SOURCE: Report of the Feast of The Grand Lodge of London, 1722, James Anderson: Man and Mason, Volume 10, by David Stevenson, 2002)

This rather long history lesson is just so that you (including the Freemasons here) understand the history of the Hellfire Clubs and hopefully alter your views and attitudes accordingly. I hope that you also understand why the Moderns system of Freemasonry forbids the discussion of politics. It dates from this period of its history which ruthlessly repressed opposition to the Hanoverian Crown and Whig Parliament, including the repression of The Grand Lodge of All England with its actively political, primarily Tory, but wholly Jacobite membership.

Even from the times of the Crusades, the concept of succession and inheritence represented a real dilemma. Notions of equity and Trust Law stem from these times of the Crusades and the need to deal with difficult matters connected with inheritence and succession.

The Hanoverians have always, especially during the Regency Period, indulged in extra-marital relationships with their inevitable results including: a trail of disgruntled bastards; political satire; and being held hostage to ridicule.

The exception to this rule was Queen Victoria who did much to change the poor moral climate that had been produced by the irresponsiblity of Hanoverian Kings and Princes towards the institution of marriage, and fidelity. Unfortunately she did not succeed entirely. Habits die hard.

[psquared]

"And by the way, how can you assume that someone is a Mason? You either know, or you don't. "

Very true GS...and we know there are ONLY three ways to know for SURE.

One can claim to be a Mason all they want. I have claimed, as many others on here as well, to be a Mason...but until one of the three is satisfied..none of us are absolutely sure are we. So, the ANTI's really can't prove that a person is a Mason even if the person claims to be one Only a Mason can find out if another is TRULY a Mason.

[grandsecretary]

Quite right. Where were you first made a Mason?

[decim]

Very informative GS.

The 'Hellfire Clubber's' were for 'legitimate inheritance' regarding the Stewart line which would appear contradictory, unless they were mainly an 'Equal Rights For Bastards' organisation that sought higher status in society. Saxons trying to penetrate the inner realms of the norman 'elite', maybe?

'Hellfire Clubber's' were a somewhat ignoble group at the least.

This is far too simple.

Of course the first Hellfire Club was founded in 1719 by Philip, Duke of Wharton. He became Grand Master of the newly formed United Grand Lodge of England three years later, 1722, but he was ousted by his political opponents within a matter of months.

Although it was not officially a Masonic organisation, the Hellfire Club was certainly populated and attended by Freemasons.

Why?

These were the times of Jacobite Rebellions and political repression where open discussion of political matters resulted in imprisonment, heavy fines, bancruptcy, loss of titles and status, sequestration of property, exile, execution by hanging.

One of the places where political discussion could take place in absolute secrecy and safety was within a secure Masonic Lodge.

Many Masonic philosophers, writers and free thinkers were engaged in a battle with the Church and Parliament over the thorny subject of illegitimacy and the inheritence of property.

The majority of members of the Hellfire Club were the illegitimate sons of the aristocracy and/or their descendants who were the progeny of Royal "free love". Because of their illegitimacy they were disinherited, their heirs and successors precariously positioned, and often mistreated within high society. These Freemasons, members of the Hellfire Club, were of this type.

The place to discuss and actively plot against repressive laws, otherwise supported by the ruling classes, was in the secret confines of this Hellfire Club. They could not do so within a purely Masonic system governed, as it was, by the legitimate (only in terms of marriage) heirs to England, its lands and its properties (the Hanoverian Royal Family, the established Church and their hangers-on, men such as Theophilus Desaguliers).

So, The Hellfire Club, far from being Masons, per se, were in fact restricted to those disinherited Freemasons and their friends who were opposed to those Freemasons who were the ruling elite supported by the established Church.

Many of the members of The Hellfire Club had names like Fitz-Allen and Fitz-Howard. The prefix Fitz was awarded to those aristocratic families whose ancestors were born out of wedlock, disinherited bastards, paid what they saw as a pittance in order to keep quiet, on pain of death.

They turned their ire against the established Church which they saw as the upholders of the inheritence laws, forming a plotting and protest movement to bring about changes to these laws. Hence the name "Hell Fire Club".

These men were free thinkers, rebels, who demonstrated their opposition to the Church and what they saw as its false morality with its umbilical connection to the Crown, and Parliament with their repressive inheritence (religious) laws. If you were the son of two people who were not married in church, you were a disinherited bastard with an uncertain future. No civil marriages in those days.

Their committment to "free love" open relationships and their demands for illegitimate inheritence is where they gained their reputation for sexual promiscuity and "lose living". The Church termed their meetings "sex orgies" and labelled their women, to whom they were not married, "whores and prostitutes".

Those here, who knock these men now, are supporting those who repressed them: the Crown with its system of "progenitor"; the established Protestant Church; and the present political system which collectively to this very day does not fully recognise the legal status and human rights of illegitimate children, and which still discriminates against those who do not conform to the moral and sexual norms in society. Married Tax Allowance was a subject of debate only this week at the Conservative Party Conference.

In fact, Wharton's club came to an end in 1721 when the German speaking Elector of Hanover, King George I, under the influence of Wharton's political enemies put forward a Bill in Parliament "against horrid impieties" (immorality) aimed DIRECTLY at the Hellfire Club and in defence of the political status quo. Although Wharton was an old fashioned Whig, he was a confirmed Jacobite who supported the Stuart Crown. Part of his fight back was his election to the Grand Mastership of The United Grand Lodge of England, engineered by his Jacobite friends in the Tory Party, but this was viciously quashed at the Annual Feast of 1723.



This rather long history lesson is just so that you (including the Freemasons here) understand the history of the Hellfire Clubs and hopefully alter your views and attitudes accordingly. I hope that you also understand why the Moderns system of Freemasonry forbids the discussion of politics. It dates from this period of its history which ruthlessly repressed opposition to the Hanoverian Crown and Whig Parliament, including the repression of The Grand Lodge of All England with its actively political, primarily Tory, but wholly Jacobite membership.

Even from the times of the Crusades, the concept of succession and inheritence represented a real dilemma. Notions of equity and Trust Law stem from these times of the Crusades and the need to deal with difficult matters connected with inheritence and succession.

The Hanoverians have always, especially during the Regency Period, indulged in extra-marital relationships with their inevitable results including: a trail of disgruntled bastards; political satire; and being held hostage to ridicule.

The exception to this rule was Queen Victoria who did much to change the poor moral climate that had been produced by the irresponsiblity of Hanoverian Kings and Princes towards the institution of marriage, and fidelity. Unfortunately she did not succeed entirely. Habits die hard.

[grandsecretary]

Only if you find it ignoble to support the Stuart Kings who had the undoubted right to succession to the English throne and to fight for their rights to succeed to their family inheritences.

The problem here is that we try to judge these people by today's conditions and standards.

I would suggest ... a mistake.

It is certainly not right to say that the Hellfire clubs were places for Masonic sex orgies and prostitution. That was the propaganda spread by the established Church hierarchy.

The Hellfire Clubs were, as matter of historical fact, hotbeds of Jacobite political action and protest against the established Church, the Whig State which had capitulated to Hanover and also as it happens resistance to the attempted takeover of English Free Masonrie which remained loyal to the Stuart cause until December 1723.

THAT is why The United Grand Lodge of England will never release the minutes of the meeting at The Goose and Gridiron Ale-house on the 24th June 1717, or say who chaired the meeting. It was Jacobite controlled for the first 4/5 years.

[decim]

Ah yes the 'Act of Settlement' & 'Act of Union'.

There are a few 'fitz'' in the Stewart line, where would it lead to today after Queen Anne?

Is this why laws ruling roman catholicism & the monarchy were recently 'revised'?

Are we to see a satanic papist on the throne in the near future?

Only if you find it ignoble to support the Stuart Kings who had the undoubted right to succession to the English throne and to fight for their rights to succeed to their family inheritences.

The problem here is that we try to judge these people by today's conditions and standards.

I would suggest ... a mistake.

It is certainly not right to say that the Hellfire clubs were places for Masonic sex orgies and prostitution. That was the propaganda spread by the established Church hierarchy.

The Hellfire Clubs were, as matter of historical fact, hotbeds of Jacobite political action and protest against the established Church, the Whig State which had capitulated to Hanover and also as it happens resistance to the attempted takeover of English Free Masonrie which remained loyal to the Stuart cause until December 1723.

THAT is why The United Grand Lodge of England will never release the minutes of the meeting at The Goose and Gridiron Ale-house on the 24th June 1717, or say who chaired the meeting. It was Jacobite controlled for the first 4/5 years.

[nefilim777]

When are people going to realise this 'satanism' term is completely redundant?

[grandsecretary]

Ah yes the 'Act of Settlement' & 'Act of Union'.

There are a few 'fitz'' in the Stewart line, where would it lead to today after Queen Anne?

Is this why laws ruling roman catholicism & the monarchy were recently 'revised'?

Are we to see a satanic papist on the throne in the near future?

Have we given up teaching history in schools today? The Pope is a Monarch in every sense of the word. He DOES sit on the throne that was the Holy Roman Empire and regards himself Regis Primus, the most senior of all of the world's Monarchs.

[thelonious]

He DOES sit on the throne that was the Holy Roman Empire and regards himself Regis Primus, the most senior of all of the world's Monarchs.

That and 5 bucks will get him a cup of coffee at Starbucks!

[dgsd]

"And by the way, how can you assume that someone is a Mason? You either know, or you don't. "

Very true GS...and we know there are ONLY three ways to know for SURE.

One can claim to be a Mason all they want. I have claimed, as many others on here as well, to be a Mason...but until one of the three is satisfied..none of us are absolutely sure are we. So, the ANTI's really can't prove that a person is a Mason even if the person claims to be one Only a Mason can find out if another is TRULY a Mason.

I guess one can pull out his dues card? Lol:cool:

[decim]

Hellfire Club For Bastards Circa 2004

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg57/watchmanbiblestudy/End%20Times/Europe/blair_EUsigning_capitolinehill.jpg

[kadosh]

..... Of course the first Hellfire Club was founded in 1719 by Philip, Duke of Wharton. He became Grand Master of the newly formed United Grand Lodge of England three years later, 1722, but he was ousted by his political opponents within a matter of months.
That statement is not factually accurate. For the record, and as is well known, the UGLE was not formed until 1813. - http://www.ugle.org.uk/what-is-masonry/history-of-freemasonry/

The Hell-Fire Clubs - http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/history/hellfire/hellfire.html

[grandsecretary]

That statement is not factually accurate. For the record, and as is well known, the UGLE was not formed until 1813. - http://www.ugle.org.uk/what-is-masonry/history-of-freemasonry/

The Hell-Fire Clubs - http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/history/hellfire/hellfire.html

Quite right kadosh, I was using "shorthand".

The Duke of Wharton was Grand Master of The Grand Lodge of London which was first constituted in 1723. The Grand Lodge of London capitulated to the Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons according to the Old Institution (The Antients), founded in 1751, to form The United Grand Lodge of England in December 1812.

[sofa king]

I guess one can pull out his dues card? Lol:cool:



and ask what the JW is serving for refreshment that evening...

:p

[decim]

papa benny fitz tony fitz jack fitz rothschild...

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg57/watchmanbiblestudy/End%20Times/Europe/blair_EUsigning_capitolinehill.jpg