FYI some sales figures

[mido]

Alexon (clothing) - down 10.5% (23 weeks to Jan 3)

Blacks Leisure (outdoor goods) - down 3.9% (6 weeks to Jan 3)

Co-op Group (food) - up 6% (3 weeks to Jan 3)

Debenhams (department stores) - down 3.5% (18 weeks to Jan 3)

Dunelm (home furnishings) - down 5.6% (26 wwks to Dec 27)

EBTM (online retail fashion) - down 33% (December)

Greggs (bakery) - up 5.3% (4 weeks to Jan 3)

House of Fraser (department stores) - down 1.5% (5 weeks to Jan 3)

John Lewis (department stores) - 0% change (5 weeks to Jan 3)

Majestic Wine (drinks) - down 2.9% (10 weeks to Jan 3)

Marls & Spencer (department stores) - down 7.1% (13 weeks to Dec 27)

New Look (fashion/homeware) - up 2.8% (14 weeks to Jan 3)

Next (fashion) - down 7.0% (21 weeks to Dec 24)

Ocado (food) - up 25% (4 weeks to Jan 3)

Peacocks (clothing) - up 22% (2 weeks to Jan 2)

Signet (jewellery) - down 10.9% (9 weeks to Jan 3)

Ted Baker (fashion) - up 7.2%10 weeks to Dec 24)

Thorntons (chocolate+) - down 2.3% (12 weeks to Dec 27)

Waitrose (food) - up 3.1% (12-day Christmas & New Year period)

There are quiet rumours of Debenhams being in financial difficulty with the word 'administration' being whispered here and there...

[truthseeker1980]

In a way I would like M&S, Debenhams, BHS and all the other massive chains to go bust. It will be bad for the supposed economy for the GOV, but if you own a small independent clothes or grocery store then surely we are still going to need to eat and buy clothes, now is the time to stop giving our money to the conglomerates, let them fail.

They killed off most of the old small independent shops and never batted an eye lid, it's time we reclaimed our high streets with proper independent retailers affiliated to no comglomerates, that way we have personal buying power and will always personally know the traders.

Back to how it was in our grandparents time, no more faceless towns or high streets. Stop using big chains, they do nothing for the average Joe, but are good for the economy apparently, but the economy was never designed for the average Joe anyway, so FUCK'em.

They've had their time, who cares, I was glad to see a Toyota showroom shutting down today also.

We the people can benefit from this staged economic collapse, more than they TPTB think.

[1694]

Thanks for the heads up, are these year on year same store sales figures?

[mido]

Thanks for the heads up, are these year on year same store sales figures?

Right in one! But let's put it all in persepctive with a look at Nationwide: The group said it made £322 million in pre-tax profits in the first six months of its financial year, down 18% from £394 million a year ago. Ahh, what a calamity!

[orwell101]

In a way I would like M&S, Debenhams, BHS and all the other massive chains to go bust. It will be bad for the supposed economy for the GOV, but if you own a small independent clothes or grocery store then surely we are still going to need to eat and buy clothes, now is the time to stop giving our money to the conglomerates, let them fail.

They killed off most of the old small independent shops and never batted an eye lid, it's time we reclaimed our high streets with proper independent retailers affiliated to no comglomerates, that way we have personal buying power and will always personally know the traders.

Back to how it was in our grandparents time, no more faceless towns or high streets. Stop using big chains, they do nothing for the average Joe, but are good for the economy apparently, but the economy was never designed for the average Joe anyway, so FUCK'em.

They've had their time, who cares, I was glad to see a Toyota showroom shutting down today also.

We the people can benefit from this staged economic collapse, more than they TPTB think.

What sort of mind do you have to have to think that if massive retailers are going to go bust then independent retailers will survive! LOL.

Ever wondered why the massive retailers are massive in the first place?

[truthseeker1980]

What sort of mind do you have to have to think that if massive retailers are going to go bust then independent retailers will survive! LOL.

Ever wondered why the massive retailers are massive in the first place?

I probably didn't phrase it very well, I'll use this as an example, Woolworths has shut down in a parade of shops, the dirty independently owned run down shop which sells the same stuff as woolworths on the same parade of shops, has now seen a massive increase in sales. See what i mean. It could be good for self employed people and small shops.

And yes they are massive in the first place because they either bought out the competition or out priced the competition, no other reason.

[orwell101]

I probably didn't phrase it very well, I'll use this as an example, Woolworths has shut down in a parade of shops, the dirty independently owned run down shop which sells the same stuff as woolworths on the same parade of shops, has now seen a massive increase in sales. See what i mean. It could be good for self employed people and small shops.

And yes they are massive in the first place because they either bought out the competition or out priced the competition, no other reason.

In a recession the biggest last the longest. The independent shop will close down before most of the big stores. Just because Woolworths went first dosen't mean the small shop will outlast the rest of the big stores. It won't.

Its bad news for small shops and self-employed. We don't need fantasies, we are facing economic disaster.

[truthseeker1980]

In a recession the biggest last the longest. The independent shop will close down before most of the big stores. Just because Woolworths went first dosen't mean the small shop will outlast the rest of the big stores. It won't.

Its bad news for small shops and self-employed. We don't need fantasies, we are facing economic disaster.

It's not a fantasy and this isn't the average recession, the big co's seem to be going first this time around.

I am stating what is happening at present I aint being a fantasist, the shop i am using as an example had been in trouble for the past few years now that woolworhts has gone he has never made so much. Swings and roundabouts and this aint the same as any other recession the big ones are falling hard and fast.

People are always going to need food, general store type products, or do you think everyone is going to stop eating?

I was talking about after the recession anyway, we would be better off if all the big companies who have frozen our wages for the past 10 years went bust. The small co's wouldn't raise the wages to livable standard coz the big ones didn't.

Which in turn is a contributing factor to the economic downturn (causing everyone to spend money they dont have coz the cost of living continued to rise with no increase in wages) these conglomerates have tried to govern the way we live for the past 4 decades, it's these co's which are the reason Britain is a faceless, community less country now.

[1694]

Small firms can react quicker. Large co's order their inventories 6 months in advance, a small shop orders as and when.
Small cos fall back on family and friends to cover a shift or work help out for little or nothing (monetary), large co's are often resented by employees who have fixed demands and will want extra for going the extra mile.
Large cos have large fixed costs, small cos keep fixed costs down.
Large firms have long term contracts on other expendature, marketing and ad contracts etc. Small co's typically don't have these committments.
Large firms juggle customers on credit terms, small cos usually deal money up front.
Large firms often have large long term debts that banks start to worry about, small firms typically don't have these large liabilities.

I don't think their is a big V small clear winner.

[orwell101]

Small firms can react quicker. Large co's order their inventories 6 months in advance, a small shop orders as and when.
Small cos fall back on family and friends to cover a shift or work help out for little or nothing (monetary), large co's are often resented by employees who have fixed demands and will want extra for going the extra mile.
Large cos have large fixed costs, small cos keep fixed costs down.
Large firms have long term contracts on other expendature, marketing and ad contracts etc. Small co's typically don't have these committments.
Large firms juggle customers on credit terms, small cos usually deal money up front.
Large firms often have large long term debts that banks start to worry about, small firms typically don't have these large liabilities.

I don't think their is a big V small clear winner.

Really, so who's going to go bust first, Manchester United or Bury? Liverpool or Chester?

Large firms make bigger profits, and can undercut smaller business. They also have more assets with which to borrow against. You seemed to miss those from your amazing list of facts. LOL.

People don't want the tat that Woolworths sells, but they sure want the cheapest food and the cheapest general products. Those aren't in the smallest shops. But by all mean continue to dream on if it makes you happier.

[1694]

Really, so who's going to go bust first, Manchester United or Bury? Liverpool or Chester?

Large firms make bigger profits, and can undercut smaller business. They also have more assets with which to borrow against. You seemed to miss those from your amazing list of facts. LOL.

People don't want the tat that Woolworths sells, but they sure want the cheapest food and the cheapest general products. Those aren't in the smallest shops. But by all mean continue to dream on if it makes you happier.

http://soccerlens.com/manchester-uniteds-debt-analysed/7356/

Someone needs a 101 in economics/business.

Stop piling more debt - not possible until the club makes enough operating income to at least repay its finance costs i.e. interest cover above 1x. Currently, this ratio stands at 0.23x.

How many small cos have that kind of debt liability.

[orwell101]

http://soccerlens.com/manchester-uniteds-debt-analysed/7356/

Someone needs a 101 in economics/business.



How many small cos have that kind of debt liability.

So you think Man Utd are going to go bust before Bury do you? LOL.

Why do we ever worry about a small elite having lots of money, apparently having lots of money and huge income makes you more likely to goes bust than having very little money and very little income!

LOL. Let the elites keep their wealth eh? Apparently we are better off!

[1694]

So you think Man Utd are going to go bust before Bury do you? LOL.

Why do we ever worry about a small elite having lots of money, apparently having lots of money and huge income makes you more likely to goes bust than having very little money and very little income!

LOL. Let the elites keep their wealth eh? Apparently we are better off!

Make no mistake, the people at the top will not end up poor, a limited liability company is a seperate legal entitiy. Look at the massive US bank failures, the top execs sucked the last few drops of cash out of them before they failed with HUGE debts, the execs don;t have to give that money back.

[noobcybot]

I know a lot about this industry (if I do say so myself) working in it for a number of years now.... What I can say is that independants may start to do better after the big stores have been gone for a while, but put this in perspective.....

Say you are an inderpendant clothes shop, one of the big department stores closes down, this isnt good in the short run because those big companies will sell their stock off dirt cheap, and after that the clothing not sold will be bought up by TJ Maxx and sold cheap also.
So we have all that stock flooding into the market dirt cheap, consumers then start to expect cheaper prices for everything because all the major stores are either having massive sales or liquidating their stock ( the trick is most of them can afford to sale stuff off because they benefit from economies of scale ). But for retailers of quality goods, production is not getting any cheaper. Only poor quality Primark and HandM shit comes in cheap and these stores will of course flourish and also take customers away from independants and again make consumers expect ridiculously low prices. Then couple that with the fact people are losing jobs like crazy and the banks have messed up and arent lending after years of fuck ups.

We must consider that this is one of the final steps in bringing in the NWO though and that all of it is moot because they are exherting too much influence right now.

[orwell101]

I know a lot about this industry (if I do say so myself) working in it for a number of years now.... What I can say is that independants may start to do better after the big stores have been gone for a while, but put this in perspective.....

Say you are an inderpendant clothes shop, one of the big department stores closes down, this isnt good in the short run because those big companies will sell their stock off dirt cheap, and after that the clothing not sold will be bought up by TJ Maxx and sold cheap also.
So we have all that stock flooding into the market dirt cheap, consumers then start to expect cheaper prices for everything because all the major stores are either having massive sales or liquidating their stock ( the trick is most of them can afford to sale stuff off because they benefit from economies of scale ). But for retailers of quality goods, production is not getting any cheaper. Only poor quality Primark and HandM shit comes in cheap and these stores will of course flourish and also take customers away from independants and again make consumers expect ridiculously low prices. Then couple that with the fact people are losing jobs like crazy and the banks have messed up and arent lending after years of fuck ups.

We must consider that this is one of the final steps in bringing in the NWO though and that all of it is moot because they are exherting too much influence right now.

This is exactly my point. But because an independent shop close to Woolies is doing well for a while the poster expects us to believe the laws of economics are suddenly wrong!

[ennui]

Also, if a large chain store closes the building is usually taken over by another large business. Primark have taken over the Woolworths in my town. I don't see how that helps independent shops.

[scottmurray]

i understand we are about to witness the most bloody price war from the supermarkets ever seen.
i do not belive tesco are dynamic enough to move fast also they have prostituted their name to just about anything,in fact tesco insurance are clearly crooked too people are just noticeing as they are about a great many things.
so i see a huge downturn in tescos fortunes.
morriston on the other hand those boys are bang on the button you watch what happens in the next 2 years for those lot,watch their ads and prices.