Crowley admits to practiscing human sacrifice

[eternal_spirit]

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_spirit http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=716110#post716110)
Back on topic

So, if one of the other names Crowley used for himself was Frater Perdurabo read this quote below and it will become clear.

From The Magick, in Paris, France:

"...it was the theory of the ancient magicians that any living being is a storehouse of energy varying in quantity according to the size and health of the animal , and in quality according to its mental and moral character. At the death of the animal this energy is liberated suddenly. The animal should therefore be killed within the Circle, or Triangle, as the case may be, so that its energy cannot escape...For the highest spiritual working one must accordingly choose that victim which contains the greatest and purest force. A male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence is the most satisfactory and suitable victim." (Magick, by Master Therion, published in 1929 by the Lecram Press, Paris, France)

A footnote on p. 95 says: "(4) It appears from the Magical Records of Frater Perdurabo that he made this particular sacrifice on an average about 150 times every year between 1912 and 1928.


What do you think?

[comawhite015]

I don't understand how he got away with it if it was common knowledge and if he actually took that name and if it was taken seriously.

Why would he blatantly admit something like that to the public record?

Seems fishy.

[eternal_spirit]

Coma, took me a while to figure out he used other names. But if you follow the different names logic it adds up. If you read that and wasn't aware he used other names then you'd think he was writing about someone else. That's why I voted yes it's a admission of partaking in sacrifice.

[eternal_spirit]

It's the best evidence I can produce, I can't see any other way of proving it. Unless there's other clues etc in other writings. :confused:

[limelady]

Hi ES, well I'd love to tell you what I really think, but if I did I would find myself tied up in 3 months worth of endless debate with TW and others here who believe Cowley has been totally misunderstood etc, etc. I just don't have the energy or desire for that sorry. :o

But I will say this - and this is ONLY my own assessment so no snapping at me please people - there is evidence that in his later years Crowley's mental health declined quite significantly, and therefore to some extent at least we might be justified in thinking he became somewhat of a 'megalomaniacal fruitcake', therefore to my mind at least, it seems entirely possible he would have been quite capable of doing whatever it took (no matter how debased) in his attempts to become all he believed he could and should be - in other words become all THAT which had so far alluded him.

But without proof, I'm going to leave things here because we just have to face the fact that we may never know the full story, and to waste our energy on endless debate on this issue is really quite futile IMO. :)

[eternal_spirit]

Okay, Lime, I thought a poll would be interesting to see what others think of the evidence. So, the other thread doesn't go on and on. It's clear cut as far as I can see, but sure some will "conjure up" a alternative explanation.

[comawhite015]

Mm. We'll probably never really know.

But I do love his tarot deck. It kicks some serious ass.

[humito]

lol..........dear oh dear ...........he was taking the piss (probably literaly as well!) and was talking about his spunk as usual...........;)

[soulja]

i have little doubt that someone who conducted fucked up rituals such as slitting a goats throat in the moment the goat is sexually climaxing would be willing to go all the way.

he even wrote about it and NO when he talked about the best suited victim for a ritual sacrifice he did not speak symbolicly of something else. leave alone something profound.

Crowley was into satanism, his followers can deny it all day long as far as i'm concerned it's pretty obvious that he was.

and like with every art be it dark or not he'll get more adept the more he practised it, and with every new experience he moved onto the next level/rituals.

the ritual killing of a goat was one level, go figure what the next level would be.. just think what kind of person that must be who'd even consider doing something like that, never mind actually doing it.

alone by looking at the company he kept, the circles he moved in and the impact his teachings/systems/philosophy had on powerful and influental people speaks volumes imo. not to mention his various secret society connections.

limelady is right though debating with the fanbois is futile. been there done that, that's why what i just said is all i have to say about this already done to death subject.

[eternal_spirit]

From The Book of the Law, by Aleister Crowley:

With my Hawk's head I peck at the eyes of Jesus as he hangs upon the cross......

There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.

From SATANIC EXTRACTS, by Aleister Crowley:

The Oath of Fealty

I bind my blood in Satan's hands,

All this that lieth betwixt my hands

To thee, the Beast, and thy control,

I pledge me; body, mind, and soul.


Pledge

I swear to work my Work abhorred,

Careless of all but one reward,

The pleasure of the Devil our Lord

[drakul]

From The Book of the Law, by Aleister Crowley:

With my Hawk's head I peck at the eyes of Jesus as he hangs upon the cross......

There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.

From SATANIC EXTRACTS, by Aleister Crowley:

The Oath of Fealty

I bind my blood in Satan's hands,

All this that lieth betwixt my hands

To thee, the Beast, and thy control,

I pledge me; body, mind, and soul.


Pledge

I swear to work my Work abhorred,

Careless of all but one reward,

The pleasure of the Devil our Lord


Interesting thread. I voted YES.

Crowley also wrote (symbolic fiction?) about sacrificing his lover.

[drael]

One of the few people in the world, who could have spent thirty mins disucssing either penis's or raping jesus with a stick.

[humito]

well is a matter of opinion i guess............its not out of the realms of possibilty........i am not a fan or defending him ..... but have read a few of his books........ Satan - in general - is the secret self in terms of Thelema which includes the highest heights and the lowest depths. It is Tiphareth on the Tree of Life. Satan relates to Set (Egyptian) as well as the concept of Sat (Hindu). Its a complex symbolism that changes from place to place...

In 'Liber Samekh' Crowley writes, "Now this word SABAF, being by number Three score and Ten 2, is a name of Ayin, the Eye, and the Devil our Lord, and the Goat of Mendes. He is the Lord of the Sabbath of the Adepts, and is Satan, therefore also the Sun, whose number of Magick is 666, the seal of His servant the BEAST... But again SA is 61, AIN, the Naught of Nuith; BA means go, for Hadit; and F is their Son the Sun who is Ra-Hoor-Khuit."

In Magick Without Tears he writes, ""The Devil" is, historically, the God of any people that one personally dislikes. This has led to so much confusion of thought that THE BEAST 666 has preferred to let names stand as they are, and to proclaim simply that AIWAZ --- the solar-phallic-hermetic "Lucifer" is His own Holy Guardian Angel, and "The Devil" SATAN or HADIT of our particular unit of the Starry Universe. This serpent, SATAN, is not the enemy of Man, but He who made Gods of our race, knowing Good and Evil; He bade "Know Thyself!" and taught Initiation. He is "the Devil" of the Book of Thoth, and His emblem is BAPHOMET, the Androgyne who is the hieroglyph of arcane perfection. The number of His Atu is XV, which is Yod He, the Monogram of the Eternal, the Father one with the Mother, the Virgin Seed one with all-containing Space. He is therefore Life, and Love. But moreover his letter is Ayin, the Eye; he is Light, and his Zodiacal image is Capricornus, that leaping goat whose attribute is Liberty. (Note that the "Jehovah" of the Hebrews is etymologically connected with these. The classical example of such antinomy, one which has led to such disastrous misunderstandings, is that between NU and HAD, North and South, Jesus and John. The subject is too abstruse and complicated to be discussed in detail here. The student should consult the writings of Sir R. Payne Knight, General Forlong, Gerald Massey, Fabre d'Olivet; etc. etc., for the data on which these considerations are ultimately based.)"

I suggest also reading about Atu XV: The Devil in Crowley's book "The Book of Thoth" which helps explain some esoteric symbolism about hte Devil, Satan, etc.

his whole thing was to not serve any "supreme being" but to be the master of all energies/deities and serve yourself..........which i suppose could be seen by some as satanic..........surly if he was a satanist in the way you imply he would be worshiping the goat not slitting its throat???
millions of animals get their throats slit every day by people.......are they all satanists too?
He was a bastard though :)

[humito]

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_spirit http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=716110#post716110)
Back on topic

So, if one of the other names Crowley used for himself was Frater Perdurabo read this quote below and it will become clear.

From The Magick, in Paris, France:

"...it was the theory of the ancient magicians that any living being is a storehouse of energy varying in quantity according to the size and health of the animal , and in quality according to its mental and moral character. At the death of the animal this energy is liberated suddenly. The animal should therefore be killed within the Circle, or Triangle, as the case may be, so that its energy cannot escape...For the highest spiritual working one must accordingly choose that victim which contains the greatest and purest force. A male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence is the most satisfactory and suitable victim." (Magick, by Master Therion, published in 1929 by the Lecram Press, Paris, France)

A footnote on p. 95 says: "(4) It appears from the Magical Records of Frater Perdurabo that he made this particular sacrifice on an average about 150 times every year between 1912 and 1928.


What do you think?

..................so that would mean he killed about two and a half thousand people............do you think somebody may have noticed?;)

[limelady]

..................so that would mean he killed about two and a half thousand people............do you think somebody may have noticed?;)

Well maybe, but not necessarily.

Trafficking in children from third world countires has been going on for a very long time, as its always been a profitable business.

For instance, these figures from India alone.....

A staggering 45,000 children - one every 4,200-odd households - go missing in India every year, according to figures compiled by the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC). NGOs working in the field estimate only 10 per cent of all cases are registered with the police, so the actual numbers could be several times higher. Kiran Bedi, director general, Bureau of Police Research and Development, conceded that the "numbers of missing children reported on child helplines were much more than the figures in police records".

According to NHRC's report, first published in 2004, most children are reported missing from the states of Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh, Andhra Pradesh, Bihar and Orissa where, it says, the "trafficking of children has become a highly profitable business". Traffickers target low-income families, and their tactics range from drugging and abduction to persuasion and deception, the report says.


http://www.unodc.org/india/ht_noida_050107.html


So again, we can only speculate, and may never know the truth.

[humito]

wow thats a horrible figure!...............i see whre you are comming from but they probably are dissapated all over the world...........i dont think that that many could have gone his way without somebody spilling the beans............he pissed most people off he had contact with........ and detailed records were kept of most of his magikal activity .........but as you say we will never know for sure .

[drakul]

wow thats a horrible figure!...............i see whre you are comming from but they probably are dissapated all over the world...........i dont think that that many could have gone his way without somebody spilling the beans............he pissed most people off he had contact with........ and detailed records were kept of most of his magikal activity .........but as you say we will never know for sure .

Don't forget Crowley was affiliated with the freemasons. Therefore he may have had the collusion of the most powerful secret society in Britain.

[eternal_spirit]

Quote:
Originally Posted by humito http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=719251#post719251)
..................so that would mean he killed about two and a half thousand people............do you think somebody may have noticed?;)
Some Satanic cults have what's knows as "breeders" breeders are women in a cult/coven who's purpose is to to be impregnated via sex rituals, sometimes gang raped to add a negative spiritual aspect to the conception, maybe to attract demon entities to the woman and growing foetus

The breeders also have babies who are not legaly registered (so don't officially exist on paper, no one would notice them missing, they may be kept in remote locations, or the breeder women mind controlled to forget the experiences) I've also read that they have their people placed in medical/hospitals, if the head of these institutions is a member of cult/group they can manipulate and cover.

Sometimes the women are forced to abort so the foetus can be used by the cult/coven in rituals.

Some babies will be allowed to grow into children or adults, but will then later be sacrificed, some may become breeders or members of the coven, they have rituals/sacrifices and dates that relate to the victims sex and age.

see satanic calender

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/satanic_calendar.htm

and

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31233&highlight=calender

[rhydra]

Crowly liked to push the boundaries a bit but I can't really see it, i doubt he would have put himself in the position of being done for murder. As far as I have found out about him, he did revel in an appalling reputation, how much of that reputation is true or just implied by refusal to deny lurid accusations maybe we'll never know. 150 a year does seem like he would have been pretty busy.:confused:

[soulja]

just because the numbers seem unlikely to be true does not mean he wasn't involved in human sacrifice.

i think it's posssible he grossly exagerrated the numbers on purpose to render the truth unbelievable. that way he could let the cat out of the bag and even brag about it while at the same time make sure noone will believe it.

noone of the ''profane'' anyway, his books were written for other initiates and i'm sure the right people understood the message.

it's a common trick employed by satanists to incorporate unbelievable elements into things they do. it's like a safe mechanism only other satanists will recognize as such.

think of the many accounts of SRA victims who claim their abusers were Santa Claus and Mickey Mouse. it's the same underlying principle..

[marpat]

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_spirit http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=716110#post716110)
Back on topic

So, if one of the other names Crowley used for himself was Frater Perdurabo read this quote below and it will become clear.

From The Magick, in Paris, France:

"...it was the theory of the ancient magicians that any living being is a storehouse of energy varying in quantity according to the size and health of the animal , and in quality according to its mental and moral character. At the death of the animal this energy is liberated suddenly. The animal should therefore be killed within the Circle, or Triangle, as the case may be, so that its energy cannot escape...For the highest spiritual working one must accordingly choose that victim which contains the greatest and purest force. A male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence is the most satisfactory and suitable victim." (Magick, by Master Therion, published in 1929 by the Lecram Press, Paris, France)

A footnote on p. 95 says: "(4) It appears from the Magical Records of Frater Perdurabo that he made this particular sacrifice on an average about 150 times every year between 1912 and 1928.


What do you think?


You have posted this so many times in other threads and people have given you detailed responses. Is this what you do, just start another thread saying the same stuff rather than continuing the dabte in the other threads where you have posted the same info?

[marpat]

I don't understand how he got away with it if it was common knowledge and if he actually took that name and if it was taken seriously.

Why would he blatantly admit something like that to the public record?

Seems fishy.


It actually went to court and it was proven that no sacrifices were made but that the whole things was symbolic. ES is blind though. He knows all these things but chooses to ignore them.

[marpat]

Coma, took me a while to figure out he used other names. But if you follow the different names logic it adds up. If you read that and wasn't aware he used other names then you'd think he was writing about someone else. That's why I voted yes it's a admission of partaking in sacrifice.

You must be stupid if it took you a while because in his works it is completely obvious. What is clear is that if it took you a while to figure that out you either have no clue or you are just not reading his works. Either way it sums up your complete ignorance.

[eternal_spirit]

Marpat the admission by Crowley and the evidence it's flawless. You can throw your rattle out the pram and jump up and down call me what you like, doesn't refute the evidence none. And anyone who voted no, they should explain why?

[marpat]

Marpat the admission by Crowley and the evidence it's flawless. You can throw your rattle out the pram and jump up and down call me what you like, doesn't refute the evidence none. And anyone who voted no, they should explain why?

So what about the court case that was thrown out when it was proven that he did not do it and did not approve of anybody doing it? inconvenient facts for you I guess. If it was flawless evidence then why did he not get the death sentence? what about the explanations that have been shown to you many times but which you completely ignore?

It only tooks you 20 years to realise the obvious facts of his magical motto. Pretty sad really. If you had read any of his work this would have been immediately obvious but it just shows that you have not even taken the time to read what he prints. It would be like somebody condemning the works of Ickes without ever reading any of his books.

I hate the minds of closet christians, those who say they are no but who in fact are fully controlled by subconscious christian dogma and blindness.

Why have you found it necessary to open this thread when you were debating exactly the same thing in another thread? perhaps you feel that by moving around different threads you will be able to say what you like without having to deal with more informed people than yourself. When they defeat your arguement you just start another thread with the same stuff.

[lizzy]

It actually went to court and it was proven that no sacrifices were made but that the whole things was symbolic. ES is blind though. He knows all these things but chooses to ignore them.


"A jury of your Peers" , the corrupt old boys no less, LOL :rolleyes: What a JOKE.

This poll is relevant, not a BBC repeat , ( no one has done it before ) ... :cool:

and here you are, slashing away as usual, calling people stupid !!!! LOL.. :eek:

edit. PS. not voted yet ?.....you must try to get your sides numbers up a little, LOL ( that your job , haha)

[marpat]

"A jury of your Peers" , the corrupt old boys no less, LOL :rolleyes: What a JOKE.

This poll is relevant, not a BBC repeat , ( no one has done it before ) ... :cool:

and here you are, slashing away as usual, calling people stupid !!!! LOL.. :eek:

And here you are with nothing to add.

Well if it took him all that time to figure it out he is stupid. His mottos were not hidden or used as any code.

I knew somebody would come up with the old 'corrupt court' thing. Easy to say but never proven, which is basically the basis of most of your fragile belief system, which tend to be nothing more than a lot of reactionary statements meant to play on people fear but which are not or cannot be proven.

Still trying to get my attention are you? I guess the pangs of your emotional loneliness are still hurting you.

[lizzy]

.....The courts were hidously corrupt , always have been.... an elite tool , to protect (and enrich ) themselves.

.......Still trying to get my attention are you? I guess the pangs of your emotional loneliness are still hurting you.
----------
LOL ....I am much stronger than you think , LOL....;)

( when I empathize on other threads ,.. it's nice to see that YOU care enough to follow and read my various posts, LOL) :rolleyes:

[marpat]

Still trying to get my attention are you? I guess the pangs of your emotional loneliness are still hurting you.
----------
LOL ....I am much stronger than you think , LOL....;)

( but when I do relate to other posters' on other threads ,.. it's nice to see that YOU care enough to follow and read them, LOL) :rolleyes:

Really? must get that from your bible group. Stay in church.

[humito]

Marpat the admission by Crowley and the evidence it's flawless. You can throw your rattle out the pram and jump up and down call me what you like, doesn't refute the evidence none. And anyone who voted no, they should explain why?

its not really flawless is it?............I could write in my diary that i sacrificed children..........doesnt mean i have though.........irrefutable evidence would be finding over two thousand bodies...........

The erroneous popular idea of equating Aleister Crowley with Satanism is based, partially, on his own tendency to hyperbole and rebellion against (most) expressions of bourgeois morality--and the satanic myth is also perpetuated by Establishment apologists who simply can not tolerate the basic insistence on INDIVIDUAL SPIRITUAL FREEDOM proclaimed in Crowley's vision of Scientific Illuminism....

FAQ at The Gnostic Pagan Tradition


Aleister Crowley (1875-1947) contributed greatly to the "magical revival,” as it has been called, during the first half of the 20th Century. His written works have had a profound effect on the practice of Magick. In addition, Satanism, as currently practiced by the Church of Satan and similar groups, have relied heavily on a sensationalistic interpretation of his writings. There are even marks of his influence in the writings of Gerald Gardner, the individual most responsible for the recreation of Wicca circa 1950.

Unfortunately, many conservative Christian authors have associated Crowley's beliefs and practices with Mediaeval Satanism. The latter was a form of Satan worship that did not exist in reality. The Christian church invented it in order to provide the theological and legal justification for the Witch burnings of Western Europe. Because of this association, most of the writings by Fundamentalist and other Evangelical Christians about the Law of Thelema and Crowley are hopelessly inaccurate, and may be safely ignored.
Let's consider what Crowley wrote regarding Satan or the devil:


The devil does not exist. It is a false name invented by the Black Brothers to imply a Unity in their ignorant muddle of dispersions. A devil who had unity would be a God. ["The Devil" is, historically, the God of any people that one personally dislikes....]

ALEISTER CROWLEY
Liber ABA (Book 4): Magick; Part III: Magick in Theory & Practice; Cap. XXI: Of Black Magick; of Pacts with the Devil; of the Main Types of the Operations of Magick Art; of Necromancy; and of the Powers of the Sphinx
(Boldface not added.)


This "Devil" is called Satan or Shaitan, and regarded with horror by people who are ignorant of his formula, and, imagining themselves to be evil, accuse Nature herself of their own phantasmal crime. Satan is Saturn, Set, Abrasax, Adad, Adonis, Attis, Adam, Adonai, etc. The most serious charge against him is only that he is the Sun in the South. The Ancient Initiates, dwelling as they did in lands whose blood was the water of the Nile or the Euphrates, connected the South with life-withering heat, and cursed that quarter where the solar darts were deadliest. Even in the legend of Hiram, it is at high noon that he is stricken down and slain. Capricornus is moreover the sign which the Sun enters when he reaches his extreme Southern declination at the Winter Solstice, the season of the death of vegetation, for the folk of the Northern hemisphere. This gave them a second cause for cursing the south.... But to us, aware of astronomical facts, this antagonism to the South is a silly superstition which the accidents of their local conditions suggested to our animistic ancestors.

ALEISTER CROWLEY
Liber ABA (Book 4): Magick; Part III: Magick in Theory & Practice; Cap. V: The Formula of I.A.O.


Even Satanists may object to Crowley's being perceived as a Satanist:


Crowley was not technically a Satanist. He certainly did not he see himself as one. It should be pointed out that Crowley did see Thelema as a religion to replace Christianity and its moral codes. Crowley was not a Satanist or a devil worshipper.

FAQ at Horned Order's Magickal Existence




But Crowley apparently encouraged and enjoyed a "blackened" reputation. There may be a few reasons for this, and one of them may have been to weed out the insincere and the superficial in a manner similar to one he described in a piece of his fiction:


The men who are willing... to become the saviours of their country shall be called the Synagogue of Satan, so as to keep themselves from the friendship of the fools who mistake names for things.

ALEISTER CROWLEY
Thien Tao or the Synagogue of Satan, Sub Figura XLI


The context of this quote is illuminating as to further intentions behind this exploration of defiance of superficial conventions and comfortable images:


The laws of the physical world are precisely paralleled by those of the moral and intellectual sphere....

To the bigot I commend a course of Thomas Henry Huxley; to the infidel a practical study of ceremonial magic. Then, when the bigot has knowledge and the infidel faith, each may follow without prejudice his natural inclination; for he will no longer plunge into his former excesses....

But what of the Great Tao? By solitude and fasting for the social and luxurious, by drunkenness and debauch for the austere, by scourging for those afraid of physical pain, by repose for the restless, and toil for the idle, by bull-fights for the humanitarian, and the care of little children for the callous, by rituals for the rational, and by philosophy for the credulous, shall these men, while yet unbalanced, seek to attain to unity with the great Tao. But for those whose intellect is purified and co-ordinated, for those whose bodies are in health, and whose passions are at once eager and controlled, it shall be lawful to choose their own way to the One Goal; videlicet, identity with that great Tao which is above the antithesis of Yang and Yin....

The men who are willing by this means to become the saviours of their country shall be called the Synagogue of Satan, so as to keep themselves from the friendship of the fools who mistake names for things.... They shall most carefully abstain from inducing any man to seek the Tao by any other way than that of equilibrium. They shall develop individual genius without considering whether in their opinion its fruition will tend to the good or evil of their country or of the world; for who are they to interfere with a soul whose balance has been crowned by the most holy Tao...?

The instructed infidel shall no longer sneer at the church-goer, for he will have been compelled to go to church until he saw the good points as well as the bad; and the instructed devotee will no longer detest the blasphemer, because he will have laughed with Ingersoll and Saladin.

Give the lion the heart of the lamb, and the lamb the force of the lion; and they will lie down in peace together.

ALEISTER CROWLEY
Thien Tao or the Synagogue of Satan, Sub Figura XLI



So, Crowley's probable amusement by people's overreaction to his dark reputation may have been related to his ideas regarding facing and overcoming fears. Some interpret further motives along these lines:


It is emphatically not true that his reputation as Satanist and Black Magician was spread entirely by his enemies; he collaborated gleefully in blackening his own character. To understand his motives, you must first understand the role of terror in reimprinting the nervous system for higher, post-terrestrial functioning. Aside from yoga and psychedelic drugs, the only method for reimprinting the nervous system is shock, especially near-death trauma. Most shamans are people who have gone through the death-rebirth process, just as in our own society you still find people who have passed through "clinical death," got revived on the operating table, and came back raving about transtime perspectives and beings of pure light. Crowley knew, as many shamans do, that you can get this result (shock and reimprint) quickly with some students by simply scaring the daylights out of them.... Crowley used this technique often. The students who confront their fear and conquer it achieve a higher neurological awareness.

ROBERT ANTON WILSON..............a student of thelema had this to say about his "satanism"
The Illuminati Papers


Crowley himself describes similar intent behind defying conventional or comfortable patterns of thought:


...The average man's senses are deceived by his emotions. He gets things out of proportion and he exaggerates them even when he is able to appreciate them at all. I made up my mind that it should be an essential part of my system of initiation to force my pupils to be familiar with just those things which excite or upset them, until they have acquired the power of perceiving them accurately without interference from the emotions. It is all a branch of the art of concentration, no doubt; but it is one which has been very much neglected, and it is of supreme importance when the aspirant arrives at the higher levels, where it is a question of "making no difference between any one thing and any other thing", and uniting oneself with each and every possible idea. For as long as anything soever escapes assimilation there remains separateness and duality, or the potentiality of such. Evil can only be destroyed by "love under will", and so long as it is feared and hated, so long as we insist on attributing a real and irreconcilable existence to it, so long will it remain evil for us....

ALEISTER CROWLEY
The Confessions of Aleister Crowley, Cap. 63


Some scientific thinkers suggest there is definite scientific value to defying conventions of thought:


A good scientist, in other words, does not merely ignore conventional wisdom, but makes a special effort to break it. Scientists go looking for trouble. This should be the m.o. of any scholar, but scientists seem much more willing to look under rocks....

Whatever the reason, there seems a clear correlation between intelligence and willingness to consider shocking ideas. This isn't just because smart people actively work to find holes in conventional thinking. I think conventions also have less hold over them to start with....

Training yourself to think unthinkable thoughts has advantages beyond the thoughts themselves. It's like stretching. When you stretch before running, you put your body into positions much more extreme than any it will assume during the run. If you can think things so outside the box that they'd make people's hair stand on end, you'll have no trouble with the small trips outside the box that people call innovative.

Computer language designer & author PAUL GRAHAM
What You Can't Say


So...who asks if Crowley was a Satanist or not? What would it change even if he were foolish enough to subscribe to one myth or another? It's more important to ask if his message was balanced or imbalanced, dogmatic or skeptical, right or wrong for our purposes; and this is something we must investigate and consider for ourselves before deciding.


The incident at cefalu when he tried the goat sacrifice turned into farce...........also this incident was very late on in his career so if you are suggesting that his next logical step was human sacrifice he wouldnt have had much time for his killing spree of thousands of kids......
He cannot be a satanist as satan is the counterpart to the christian idea of God.........One that he did not believe in.......as we have seen .

as stated before i am not an aplologist for him.............In reality he was nothing more than an overgrown schoolboy who liked to shock,he was a sexual pervert and i have no doubt he used to bugger little boys. With all his talk of the power of his will he could never overcome his drug addictions ,he used and abused people to get his own way and was quite sadistic.

his system of magick however in essence is just a way of fucking with your brain to break free of conditioning and mental imprints and therefore a path of spiritual liberation........... to become your own god/goddess/master of your destiny.........

as for his masonic involvement.......most of that was just bullshit.titles he gave himself.......he used to do it all the time.........pretending to be a prince or a scottish laird etc........he saw the masons for what they were and are and quite publicly denounced them.

[eternal_spirit]

So what about the court case that was thrown out when it was proven that he did not do it and did not approve of anybody doing it? inconvenient facts for you I guess. If it was flawless evidence then why did he not get the death sentence? what about the explanations that have been shown to you many times but which you completely ignore?

It only tooks you 20 years to realise the obvious facts of his magical motto. Pretty sad really. If you had read any of his work this would have been immediately obvious but it just shows that you have not even taken the time to read what he prints. It would be like somebody condemning the works of Ickes without ever reading any of his books.

I hate the minds of closet christians, those who say they are no but who in fact are fully controlled by subconscious christian dogma and blindness.

Why have you found it necessary to open this thread when you were debating exactly the same thing in another thread? perhaps you feel that by moving around different threads you will be able to say what you like without having to deal with more informed people than yourself. When they defeat your arguement you just start another thread with the same stuff.

Old boys network (He went to Cambridge or Oxford) Also Judges/Lawyers many are fellow Masons.

Plus he was an asset of British intelligence, in with Vic Rothschild another double agent and co. They wanted him for missions.

Regardless of all that, would something he'd written in a book stand as evidence in a Court of Law? I doubt it.

You're the OTO member so you should be the expert here.

Yet fail to defeat my arguments.

Closet Christians not me buddy. So your statements are a no brainer. People like myself who are free from dogma and brainwashing (none religious folks "me" are right when we agree sacrifice is evil)

And even if others are religious it doesn't matter they also know sacrifice is wrong.

Because it's good evidence and deserves a new thread. So, it doesn't go un noticed amongst the pages of nonsense by the pro Crowley brigade on the other threads.
We know there's OTO and AA etc members here who will use all the tricks in the book to attack me the messenger.

And it's fact that Crowley's works/rituals etc heavily influenced these groups, so he's a bit of a God like figure to your kind. Which makes you brainwashed/programmed by his dogma. Who deny facts in the face of sound logic and reasoning.

Best description for you is a religious fundamentalist. I've been through the same with people of other religions.

[eternal_spirit]

quote humito as for his masonic involvement.......most of that was just bullshit.titles he gave himself.......he used to do it all the time.........pretending to be a prince or a scottish laird etc........he saw the masons for what they were and are and quite publicly denounced them

Not true. You can't award yourself titles like 33rd degree Scottish rite, and many more Masonic degrees.

[eternal_spirit]

Just because someone condems something in public or books doesn't mean they are against it, it maybe a cover and maybe lies. I'm out of the debate for now.

[marpat]

Just because someone condems something in public or books doesn't mean they are against it, it maybe a cover and maybe lies. I'm out of the debate for now.


Again you resort to making a crap claim then bugging out.

Maybe this or maybe that, or maybe the view promoted by the MSM of the time was a false image designed to demonise the man.

Arguements are not won on maybes.

[marpat]

Not true. You can't award yourself titles like 33rd degree Scottish rite, and many more Masonic degrees.

But the grade he was given wasn't accepted by the grand lodge was it? who cares even if he was a freemason. Many of the most evil people in this world were christians.

[humito]

Just because someone condems something in public or books doesn't mean they are against it, it maybe a cover and maybe lies. I'm out of the debate for now.

with that logic you can say that you write in books that you sacrifice children but it may be lies...its no proof...........

you started the debate...........lol.............you do not debate however ,you get the hump when someone has a different view........

Here is what the masons say about crowley.............they do not recognise his degrees at all...................
In 1900, while in Mexico, Crowley became involved with a Supreme Council of the Ancient and Accepted (Scottish) Rite. This period of Central American Craft Freemasonry has been described as a chaotic mess; masonic bodies springing up and dissolving within a matter of days. Crowley was supposedly initiated into the 33° of the Ancient and Accepted Rite, thus obtaining the title of Grand Inspector General. This title is actually one of administrative rank, and not of ritual degree. The 33° is styled Sovereign Grand Inspector-General and is sparingly conferred by the Supreme Councils of the recognised jurisdictions. There does not appear to be any record of this conferment other than his claim made in The Confessions of Aleister Crowley.
In about 1904 Crowley was initiated into Craft Freemasonry in Anglo-Saxon Lodge No. 343, recognized, as of 1964, under the jurisdiction of the Grande Loge Nationale Française in Paris as No. 103. At the time it was under the jurisdiction of the Grande Loge de France, and so was not recognised by the United Grand Lodge of England as a regular masonic body. He was initiated, passed and raised over a period of several months in 1904. It is suggested but unconfirmed that he was proposed by a country parson from Oxfordshire.
Finally, at around the 1910 period, came Crowley’s episode with John Yarker. Yarker was initiated on October 25, 1854 in Liberty Lodge No. 189, was a frequent writer on masonic matters, was a member of Quatuor Coronati Lodge No. 2076 (the premier lodge of masonic research), and had been involved, in 1871, with the setting up of a Grand Council in Manchester of the Ancient and Primitive Rite, a concatenation of the Ancient and Accepted, and the Rites of Memphis and Mizraim, chartered from the United States of America by Harry J. Seymour (these Egyptian rites were considered irregular by the Grand Orient of France, the first being labeled "dead" by Thevenot, the Grand Secretary of the Grand Orient of France, in a letter to the United Grand Lodge of England in 1872 and the latter being dissolved in 1817). This Grand Council was not recognised by the Supreme Council in Duke Street. St. James, who had expelled Yarker, established the Antient and Primitive Rite in Great Britain.
Towards the end of his life, Yarker was looking for someone to carry on the work of the A&P Rite in England, and decided on that person being Crowley. To this effect, he bestowed on Crowley, by post, the degrees of 33°, 90° and 95°; respectively, the Ancient and Accepted, Memphis and Mizraim. No evidence is available that the two ever met.
After Yarker’s death (which is reported in the Oriflamme, the then Ordo Templi Orientis newsletter, for 1913; and also marked by an obituary in Crowley’s publication, The Equinox), there was a meeting at Crowley’s apartment on the Fulham Road. H. Meyer was elected the new Grand Master General, and Crowley the Grand Administrator General, and also a Patriarch Grand Conservator, his status being elevated to 33°, 90° and 96°. Following this, Crowley did very little, if anything in relation to the Ancient and Primitive Rite, concentrating his "masonic" tendencies in the body of the Ordo Templi Orientis
In 1913, Crowley apparently wrote to the United Grand Lodge of England claiming his right to attend lodge meetings, and affiliate as a joining member. If any, the response would have been a rebuttal, due to the irregularity of his mother lodge. This correspondence is not extant; all that survives is Crowley’s draft, transcribed from shorthand and dated 1913.
The United Grand Lodge of England does not recognize Crowley as a member of the Craft. All his affiliations were with irregular bodies, and so they deny him recognition.

[eternal_spirit]

LOL @ me get the hump, who started with the name calling not me. I'm not going round in circles with a bunch of Crowley lovers been there too many times before.

WAS ALEISTER CROWLEY JUST A 'CLOSET' FREEMASON?

Aleister Crowley was very proud of all his accomplishments and connections. He bragged about all of the Masonic medals and insignia that he was entitled to wear.

This view was confirmed when The Arcane Schools of John Yarker came to me for review. I wrote to the author, who recognized my title to the 33° and conferred on me the grades of 95° Memphis and 90° Mizraim. It seemed as if I had somehow turned a tap. From this time on I lived in a perfect shower of diplomas, from Bucharest to Salt Lake City. I possess more exalted titles than I have ever been able to count. I am supposed to know more secret signs, tokens, passwords, grand words, grips, and so on, than I could actually learn in a dozen lives. An elephant would break down under the insignia I am entitled to wear.
ALEISTER CROWLEY WAS AN INTERNATIONAL MASON

Crowley was truly an international Mason. He received his 33° in Mexico City and spoke of participating in Masonic rituals in the United States and also was involved in other rites of Freemasonry. Not only was Crowley a 33° Grand Inspector General of Scottish Rite Freemasonry, but he was also involved in other rites of Freemasonry that went even deeper into the occult. The Rite of Memphis contained Masonic rituals with a definite Egyptian flavor.

By the end of 1910, thanks to my relations with the Grand Hierophant 97° of the Rite of Memphis (a post held after his death by Dr. Gerard Encausse ['Papus'], Theodor Reuss ['Merlin'], and myself), I was now a sort of universal inspector-general of the various rites, charged with the secret mission of reporting on the possibility of reconstructing the entire edifice, which was universally recognized by all its more intelligent members as threatened with the gravest danger.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24416

[eternal_spirit]

quote humito
The United Grand Lodge of England does not recognize Crowley as a member of the Craft. All his affiliations were with irregular bodies, and so they deny him recognition.




Freemasons argue on this forum about what Lodges are legitimate under the UGLE, ask the member (grandsecretary) if he thinks the UGLE are real Masons. And then ask the UGLE Masons if the grandsecretarys brand of Freemasonry GLOAE are real Masons, they've been arguing about who and what are the real chartered/legit Masons for months look in the secret society section it's peppered with such debates.

So your post is defunct humito.

Anyone with degrees/titles who is initiated or follows rituals teachings of Masons or based on Masons is a Mason IMO. Regardless of who says it's official or not.

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48676

Words of a resident Freemason on the forum
quote thelonius
The above link is to a book containing the rituals of the Oriental Rite of Memphis and the Egyptian Rite of Mitzraim for the degrees of Apprentice, Companion, and Master, along with other material.


Some parts of the ritual will seem strange to most Masons on this forum, who have taken the degrees in the Craft Lodges of the York Rite. The Craft Degrees of the Egyptian Rites have a far greater esoteric and philosophical character, and one could spend quite a few hourse contemplating their teachings.

Crowley was

grades of 95° Memphis and 90° Mizraim.

[humito]

LOL @ me get the hump, who started with the name calling not me. I'm not going round in circles with a bunch of Crowley lovers been there too many times before.

WAS ALEISTER CROWLEY JUST A 'CLOSET' FREEMASON?

Aleister Crowley was very proud of all his accomplishments and connections. He bragged about all of the Masonic medals and insignia that he was entitled to wear.

This view was confirmed when The Arcane Schools of John Yarker came to me for review. I wrote to the author, who recognized my title to the 33° and conferred on me the grades of 95° Memphis and 90° Mizraim. It seemed as if I had somehow turned a tap. From this time on I lived in a perfect shower of diplomas, from Bucharest to Salt Lake City. I possess more exalted titles than I have ever been able to count. I am supposed to know more secret signs, tokens, passwords, grand words, grips, and so on, than I could actually learn in a dozen lives. An elephant would break down under the insignia I am entitled to wear.
ALEISTER CROWLEY WAS AN INTERNATIONAL MASON

Crowley was truly an international Mason. He received his 33° in Mexico City and spoke of participating in Masonic rituals in the United States and also was involved in other rites of Freemasonry. Not only was Crowley a 33° Grand Inspector General of Scottish Rite Freemasonry, but he was also involved in other rites of Freemasonry that went even deeper into the occult. The Rite of Memphis contained Masonic rituals with a definite Egyptian flavor.

By the end of 1910, thanks to my relations with the Grand Hierophant 97° of the Rite of Memphis (a post held after his death by Dr. Gerard Encausse ['Papus'], Theodor Reuss ['Merlin'], and myself), I was now a sort of universal inspector-general of the various rites, charged with the secret mission of reporting on the possibility of reconstructing the entire edifice, which was universally recognized by all its more intelligent members as threatened with the gravest danger.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24416
lol...............where have I started name calling?
if you you read my posts you will also see im not a crowley apologist.......
its no secret that crowley took and changed masonic ritual for his own ends.........
the whole point of this thread was to determine if crowley killed over 2000 people.........it was suggested that because of his masonic involvement that it would be easy to traffic this many people/children his way for sacrifice.....................my arguement is that because of the disagreement in the masonic fraternity as to wether he was excepted or not it is not very likely that he had a big enough network to enable this..........he was given the degrees in mexico i think and was gutted that he was not excepted in lodges elsewhere.........
I think its the masons we should worry about anyway........
not crowley........
he made no secret of his rituals and to what ends they were designed for....
the masons do..............

[limelady]

as stated before i am not an aplologist for him.............In reality he was nothing more than an overgrown schoolboy who liked to shock,he was a sexual pervert and i have no doubt he used to bugger little boys. With all his talk of the power of his will he could never overcome his drug addictions ,he used and abused people to get his own way and was quite sadistic.

Satanist or not, a sacrificer of goats/children or not, buggerer of little boys or not, there in a nutshell highlighted are my own reasons for disregarding as tainted this self-confessed megalomaniacs contribution to humanity.

He had no integrity, no empathy and therefore to me, no credibility.

[comawhite015]

What's the point in asking people their opinions if you're just going to shit all over them when they're different to yours?

It's like you're trying purposefully to pick fights, es.

[eternal_spirit]

Votes please ladies and gents!

Who is capable of following basic logic and who isn't, or is blinded by their devotion to creepy crawly Crowley.

And Coma I get attacked left right and centre on all the threads I start about the man and related topics. I act in self defence.

[marpat]

Votes please ladies and gents!

Who is capable of following basic logic and who isn't, or is blinded by their devotion to creepy crawly Crowley.

And Coma I get attacked left right and centre on all the threads I start about the man and related topics. I act in self defence.

Voting on a subject like this means nothing. Retards will vote that he did do it and people who have read a bit more material will vote no.

There is no real logic in what a lot of people claim about him so how can the voting be logical? anyway he is dead so why do you have such a hang up about the man? can you not look beyond the person and look at the message? what if people just looked upon Icke as an alcoholic and used that as the excuse for not reading his work?

Let us not forget that no matter how fucked up some of his thinking was that he was the product of a strict christian upbringning which destroyed his childhood and health. No wonder he wanted to identify with the angel of rebellion.

The reason you get attacked is because you deliberately start threads to bait people knowing full well that the stuff you post has been posted many times before by yourself. The arguements keep going round but you ignore what people put to you and then the cycle start again. when your arguements get beaten you go quite for a short while then post the same crap in another thread.

[eternal_spirit]

:D

[humito]

Satanist or not, a sacrificer of goats/children or not, buggerer of little boys or not, there in a nutshell highlighted are my own reasons for disregarding as tainted this self-confessed megalomaniacs contribution to humanity.

He had no integrity, no empathy and therefore to me, no credibility.

well thats your opinion,..but not what this thread is about ......................the thread is about whether he killed two and a half thousand people or not .........as thats how eternal spirit interprets his writing................i am just here to say its utter rubbish.

[eternal_spirit]

My theory is not many people at the time he wrote those books where aware that he used other names such as Frater Perdurabo, so wouldn't be any the wiser. And not that many would have even read little if any of his books.

Plus he travelled widely to many countries, sometimes remote locations, where the bodies would never be found, decomposition, cannabilism, bugs, insects, animals would eat the remains.

There's also the old vat of acid trick, hospital incinerators. People in positions/jobs to dispose or cover up.

The forensic sciences in those days where very limited to what we have Today. And a few posts have alreay pointed out that the vicitms may not have been offically registered, so no one would know about or even be looking for these victims.

Say it was Mexico or some
3rd World country that most of the sacrifices happened, even easier for him to get away with it. Some countries human sacrifice may have been a custom or part of religion.

[eternal_spirit]

quote: soulja
i think it's posssible he grossly exagerrated the numbers on purpose to render the truth unbelievable. that way he could let the cat out of the bag and even brag about it while at the same time make sure noone will believe it.

Good point.

[marpat]

My theory is not many people at the time he wrote those books where aware that he used other names such as Frater Perdurabo, so wouldn't be any the wiser. And not that many would have even read little if any of his books.

Plus he travelled widely to many countries, sometimes remote locations, where the bodies would never be found, decomposition, cannabilism, bugs, insects, animals would eat the remains.

There's also the old vat of acid trick, hospital incinerators. People in positions/jobs to dispose or cover up.

The forensic sciences in those days where very limited to what we have Today. And a few posts have alreay pointed out that the vicitms may not have been offically registered, so know one would know about or even be looking for these victims.

Say it was Mexico or some
3rd World country that most of the sacrifices happened, even easier for him to get away with it. Some countries human sacrifice may have been a custom or part of religion.




That must be some big fucking white stick you got. No wonder it took you ages to figure out his motto, you've been reading in braille.

[humito]

I see where you are comming from and the illuminati probably kill kids in ritual and for adrenalchrome or whatever .............but really it wasnt crowleys bag...............read this and it will show you the true meaning of what he wrote about "male child sacrifice" and how it was central to his whole system of magick....................


In Magick in Theory and Practice, Crowley explains the magical formula of Tetragrammaton, the ancient Hebrew name of God, spelled YHVH or Yod-He-Vau-He, once Anglicized to Jehovah.

The formation of the Yod is the formulation of the first creative force, of that father who is called "self-begotten", and unto whom it is said: "Thou hast formulated thy Father, and made fertile thy Mother". The adding of the He to the Yod is the marriage of that Father to the great co-equal Mother, who is a reflection of Nuit as He is of Hadit. Their union brings forth the son Vau who is the heir. Finally the daughter He is produced. She is both the twin sister and the daughter of Vau.

His mission is to redeem her by making her his bride; the result of this is to set her upon the throne of her mother, and it is only she whose youthful embrace can reawaken the eld of the All-Father. In this complex family relationship is symbolized the whole course of the Universe. It will be seen that (after all) the Climax is at the end. It is the second half of the formula which symbolizes the Great Work we are pledged to accomplish. The first step of this is the attainment of the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel, which constitutes the Adept of the Inner Order.

The re-entry of these twin spouses into the womb of the mother is that initiation described in Liber 418, which gives admission to the Inmost Order of the A.'. A.'. Of the last step we cannot speak.

This passage is likely to be almost entirely unintelligible to the beginning student. It may convince him or her that Crowley is being obscure for the sake of obscurity, or even that he is a charlatan baffling the believers with bullshit. In fact, it is a precise and complete description of the IX* practice. It is presented here as an example of the strange prose with which the questor will do battle on the way to the center of the maze. The process of extracting the keys from MTP is a methodical one: start with one key and use it to find more keys, then review the whole, and iterate until done. The code was made to be broken, and given a few keys, the passage becomes coherent and illuminating. The reader should refer back to it throughout this essay.

There are two basic forms of the secret practices, IX* and XI*, though in practice these are sometimes combined and/or carried out in multi-partner forms. Neither of them are safe sex1, centering as they do around the mingled bodily fluids as their material expression. The IX* requires a man and a woman, while the XI* requires the same or else two men. In other words, the IX* is vaginal, while the XI* is anal. This is all widely known these days, thanks to people like Francis King and Stephen Skinner, but the inner formulae are better kept.

What is the nature of the elixir? First, it is a twin child, the male-female Holy Spirit of the Gnostic Mass, the living fruit of the two sexual partners. The Book of Lies teaches that seed and child and parent are mystically one, and that the seed represents the innermost and highest expression of the parent. In the Star Sapphire, a ritual form of the IX, the invocation brings father, mother, son, and daughter (YHVH, above) into one point of mystic union, referred to as Ararita.

This daughter-son, the living elixir, is made a sacrifice to the magical goal of the working. Note that it is not metaphorically alive, but literally alive, containing a great quantity of living cells. The sacrifice of the elixir is the sacrifice of a living child on the magical plane; but the child is one and the same as the magicians' own highest selves or pure will, and even part of their bodies. Thus, for the male magician, it is the sacrifice of "all that he is and all that he has" into the "Cup of Babalon", a Satanic symbol from the book of Revelation in the Bible, which is held by the Scarlet Woman of Babylon and in which the blood of the saints is said to be mingled.

While discussing sacrifice in the aforementioned Magick in Theory and Practice, Crowley says:


For the highest spiritual working one must accordingly choose that victim which contains the greatest and purest force. A male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence is the most satisfactory and suitable victim.
He further quotes Soror I. W. E.:


It is the sacrifice of oneself spiritually. And the intelligence and innocence of that male child are the perfect understanding of the magician, his one aim, without lust of result. And male he must be, because what he sacrifices is not the material blood, but his creative power.
At first glance Crowley seems to be advocating an atrocity, the sacrifice of a child, the bugaboo of witchhunters and anti-Semites everywhere. But in fact he is claiming that the historical legend of child sacrifice, used to persecute so many "witches" and Jews, veils a sexual formula of self-sacrifice. In a secret document of the IX*, the "blood libel" against the Jews -- the story that they celebrate covert rituals employing the blood of sacrificed children -- is taken as a statement that certain sects of the Hassidim possess this secret. The early Christians were accused of such practices by the Roman establishment, and the Gnostic Catholic Church considers this to be evidence of a continuity of the sexual secret from the Gnostics.

The legend is extraordinarily damaging to those people to whom it is ascribed. Even today witchhunters spread lurid libels against any and all occultists and witches using this tale of child sacrifice. This is one case in which secrecy has clearly proved damaging. In fact, it seems little short of insane to keep secret an inner legend of such beauty and power, while presenting a public face of horror and crime. One could surely pick a veil that was not more damaging than the reality. It is this writer's opinion that the legend of child sacrifice is not the trail of the secret, but is simply an historical accusation of monstrous evil which happens to have a remarkable symbolic correspondence with the IX* and which has been reclaimed by Crowley as such. In short, it's a retrofit, because it would be stupid for it to be anything else.

To return. These twin "children" have been consecrated by other ritual methods to a magical goal. Simple concentration on the intent is one way. One can also arrange various partners in an appropriate mythic symbolism, light the room with the proper color of candle, and all the rest of the ritual tools that serve to keep one's mind focused. Also, one is supposed to practice magical chastity, which is the keeping apart of the genitals like any other magic tool, using them only toward spiritual ends.2 The male-female elixir is the expression of the Will of the working.

The most common disposition of the elixir is consumption as a Eucharist. This sacrifices the living fluid, and uses its energy to empower the consumers spiritually. Such a Eucharist is described in Chapter XX of MTP, and in Chapter 69 of The Book of Lies3, a chapter entitled "The Way to Succeed -- and the Way to Suck Eggs!", which should be cross-checked with the passage on YHVH above:
;)

[deathcultreject]

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_spirit http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=716110#post716110)
Back on topic

So, if one of the other names Crowley used for himself was Frater Perdurabo read this quote below and it will become clear.

From The Magick, in Paris, France:

"...it was the theory of the ancient magicians that any living being is a storehouse of energy varying in quantity according to the size and health of the animal , and in quality according to its mental and moral character. At the death of the animal this energy is liberated suddenly. The animal should therefore be killed within the Circle, or Triangle, as the case may be, so that its energy cannot escape...For the highest spiritual working one must accordingly choose that victim which contains the greatest and purest force. A male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence is the most satisfactory and suitable victim." (Magick, by Master Therion, published in 1929 by the Lecram Press, Paris, France)

A footnote on p. 95 says: "(4) It appears from the Magical Records of Frater Perdurabo that he made this particular sacrifice on an average about 150 times every year between 1912 and 1928.


What do you think?


"A male child of perfect innocence and high inteligence" means human sperm.

It was just his megalomania saying that even when he masturbated it was more significant than the entire life of a human being.

[marpat]

"A male child of perfect innocence and high inteligence" means human sperm.

It was just his megalomania saying that even when he masturbated it was more significant than the entire life of a human being.

Wrong there dude. It meant the act of ejeculating without impregnating the ovum, hence a sacrificed life.

[limelady]

well thats your opinion,..but not what this thread is about ......................the thread is about whether he killed two and a half thousand people or not .........as thats how eternal spirit interprets his writing................i am just here to say its utter rubbish.

Hi humito,

Actually my post was entirely relevant to the thread topic being discussed as I have now pointed out several times on this thread that given that we are discussing a man who died many decades ago, and given that fact that he was a self-serving megalomaniac who in later life was not of very sound mind (some might say "drug-fucked") very little information he wrote can (or should) be considered reliable enough to make an assessment on such things as we are attempting to discuss on this thread..... so long after the fact. We may NEVER know the truth, no matter how we personally interpret the information.

Your own post (the one I quoted) highlighted my own reasoning in this regard. :)

[eternal_spirit]

Anyone here actually believe he wrote all his material himself. It's highly unlikely the amount of time he spent travelling. I'd suggest he had a team of writers churning it out.

[deathcultreject]

Wrong there dude. It meant the act of ejeculating without impregnating the ovum, hence a sacrificed life.

Interesting thought.

But in terms of the *physical* act, we're kind of in agreement.

[deathcultreject]

Anyone here actually believe he wrote all his material himself. It's highly unlikely the amount of time he spent travelling. I'd suggest he had a team of writers churning it out.

I think he wrote his own stuff, but he put his name to other people's translations of older materials.

So yes and no.

[comawhite015]

I still don't understand why you'd make a poll and then ask for other people's opinions when you're just going to go 'NO! YOU'RE WRONG!' and then pick a fucking fight with people who's opinions are different to yours.

Full of shit.

edit: It's like, what's the point? If you KNOW everything so fucking much already then why the hell are you asking what anyone else thinks? ESPECIALLY when you were like 'whoever voted 'no' should explain why'... I notice whenever someone voted 'Yes' you didn't ask for justification. Biased much?

You're just picking fights. You don't care about other people's opinions. You just want everyone to think like you.

[runciter]

nice post coma.

[eternal_spirit]

"A male child of perfect innocence and high inteligence" means human sperm.

It was just his megalomania saying that even when he masturbated it was more significant than the entire life of a human being.
That description
is an impossiblity

[eternal_spirit]

I still don't understand why you'd make a poll and then ask for other people's opinions when you're just going to go 'NO! YOU'RE WRONG!' and then pick a fucking fight with people who's opinions are different to yours.

Full of shit.

edit: It's like, what's the point? If you KNOW everything so fucking much already then why the hell are you asking what anyone else thinks? ESPECIALLY when you were like 'whoever voted 'no' should explain why'... I notice whenever someone voted 'Yes' you didn't ask for justification. Biased much?

You're just picking fights. You don't care about other people's opinions. You just want everyone to think like you.
Oh please calm down.
Have you even read the thread, because I never started no bitching, it's the same faces who always start it.

Icke and this site is about exposing Illuminati Masonic Government agents, and a whole lot of others points on other threads about Crowley. Most have no idea how many people, things and groups he was involved with.



so I have no idea why some want to defend them. Although there are some here who belong to groups that Crowley was involved and heavily influenced.


http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24416

Those who voted yes followed the logic of the opening post and other posts that provide evidence.

The no vote, I'm interested to see why no? And no one has given anything that comes close to a reasonably valid alternative explanation.

[thirdwave]

Anyone here actually believe he wrote all his material himself. It's highly unlikely the amount of time he spent travelling. I'd suggest he had a team of writers churning it out.

absolute rubbish... you cant right when you travel?

[thirdwave]

what people like ES fail to understand is pretty much everything about Crowley... it is a FACT he did not mean child sacrifice and makes this perfectly clear in his foot notes... the reason he was speaking like this was because he was useing code for sex magick... yes that's right.. its ok for him to talk about human and animal sacrifice but if he talked about sex his books would have been banned in most places...

He also makes it clear in his Magick in Theory and practice book that anyone that would do stuff like Human sacrifice is a complete idiot.... and makes it clear what he was referring too... what he can maybe be guilty of is overlooking the facts that there are idiots that would think that the sacrifices are the things to do... but he already stated that people where doing that stuff.. in fact he was one of the first to blow the whistle on it..

Its also the same old thing.... like when Christians quote him saying stuff like "Christianity is Vulgar" and making out Crowley is saying that the goodness and god is disgusting and bad.... which is not even the case, anyone who knows where Crowley was coming from was a very educated view point and he used words with their true meaning... for example Vulgar's original meaning is unwise... or lacking intelligence... so he was really saying Christianity is unwise... it lacks understanding...

[deathcultreject]

Wrong there dude. It meant the act of ejeculating without impregnating the ovum, hence a sacrificed life.

I've just found something relevant :D

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8

Lest we forget the Victorian extremes which Crowley rebelled against.

[comawhite015]

That makes *much* more sense than slaughtering kids, writing about it in a fucking published book, and then somehow getting away with it due to an Old Boy network.

It's also *much* more Crowley.. to people who've *read* his work, that is.

Unlike some people who like to make threads willy nilly..

[deathcultreject]

That makes *much* more sense than slaughtering kids, writing about it in a fucking published book, and then somehow getting away with it due to an Old Boy network.

It's also *much* more Crowley.. to people who've *read* his work, that is.

Unlike some people who like to make threads willy nilly..

I find that people who like crowley iether have a severe narcissistic personality disorder or a really good sense of humour.

I still find him funny, but there aren't many of his books that I'd want to read twice.

[comawhite015]

I find that people who like crowley iether have a severe narcissistic personality disorder or a really good sense of humour.

I still find him funny, but there aren't many of his books that I'd want to read twice.

He's a heavy read, like the metaphysical Marquis de Sade. Every time I finish one of his books I get this 'Hah! I win!' feeling. It's like playing mental Chicken :D

[deathcultreject]

He's a heavy read, like the metaphysical Marquis de Sade. Every time I finish one of his books I get this 'Hah! I win!' feeling.

That isn't a sign of a good sense of humour . . .

[comawhite015]

That isn't a sign of a good sense of humour . . .

Well you're hardly a shining beacon of mirth yourself, sunshine :P

[thirdwave]

The thing is, I totally understand why he would want to offend Religious people and why he would want to have such a sick sense of humour and I share that with him...

When religious people bang on at me with all their ignorant inspired gibberish judging me and looking down on me as if I am the carrier of darkness for not sharing their vision, there is nothing more enjoyable than pissing them off.

there was once a Christian in Camden and me and my mate where having a Camden day out..... every time we walk passed him he kept quoting stuff and trying to bible thump to us.... in the end I said to him, "I appreciate your efforts mate, but I am a Devil Worshipper and fully support his efforts, I find Jesus highly offensive and hope that the Devil over comes him some day"

The guy just stood there and did not really know what to say... he probably thought I was evil ... but i did not give a shit.

We know by this forum over the last few months with many Christians coming here trying to push their dogmatic views on everyone else... and in many cases succeeding.... We know that no matter how well you explain your self they sill stand their ground close their eyes and use their blind faith if they must... So why would have somone like Crowley bothered to teach these people and to reason with them?

He did not, he new the only people that would get his works are people who are already thinking for them selves... and they where the only people he really respected.

His view on God and so on was not Dark at all.... He just thought teachers like "Jesus" or "Muhammad" made the big mistake of trying to teach people how to receive enlightenment.... he thought this was the big mistake as we all have our own road to enlightenment and what lights me up might not do the same for someone else.... Even if Crowley was Evil (which I don't really think he was), it still does not change the quality of his philosophy and his out look... this is what most of his haters don't seem to realise.

Freedom is the most vital ingredient to salvation... you take away someone true will and they will never find true enlightenment no matter how good Jesus is meant to be or no matter how powerful Muhammad was....blah blah...

You see some of the effects from people who are religious... as soon as they start killing people and going crazy, they are all of a sudden "not real Christians" ...or "not real Muslims" .... although religion is taught openly to all at a young age and it is easy to study and practice...

those people like Crowley have always been oppressed and his works pushed away and how the media have always created this fearful and dark aspect to him with most of his works being twisted out of context and relying on peoples lack of education to really understand what he was saying an what words he was using..... you hear a couple stories of bad occult things that have gone down and he is responsible! ....

[deathcultreject]

Well you're hardly a shining beacon of mirth yourself, sunshine :P

I am today :)

They've just delivered my new cross trainer from the sales. :D

[eternal_spirit]

All having fun boys :D I am.

quote: thirdwave
The thing is, I totally understand why he would want to offend Religious people and why he would want to have such a sick sense of humour and I share that with him...

It won't wash it away playing blame the Christians game on this issue.

You're just spewing out the same nonsense like on all the other Crowley threads. Yawnzzzzzzz.

[marpat]

All having fun boys :D I am.

It won't wash it away playing blame the Christians game on this issue.

You're just spewing out the same nonsense like on all the other Crowley threads. Yawnzzzzzzz.

Funny because that is what I said about you.

The fact that you confess to doing this for fun now throws into question your entire intent. It seems clear that you are not interested in 'exposing' anything but do this for amusement. Therefore it can readily seen that the so called research you claim to do is nothing but an excuse to bait trouble.


In short your entire claim to exposing evil occultism is a fraud. I guess dabbling in ritual black magic, as you did confess to doing, has made you the prey of demons. There are a class that do just what you do here. Obviously you have become a host for them.

The truth is that christianity is to blame for his reaction but you just live in denial of the facts. I note how you dont like anybody pointing fingers at the christians. Why is that? for somebody who claims to have no religious interest you are keen to defend them while criticising every other religion. All I can say is that if you are not a christian you have been programmed subconsciously by their dogmas so that your conscious acts resemble those of the sheep worshippers.

[deathcultreject]

The truth is that christianity is to blame for his reaction but you just live in denial of the facts. I note how you dont like anybody pointing fingers at the christians. Why is that? for somebody who claims to have no religious interest you are keen to defend them while criticising every other religion. All I can say is that if you are not a christian you have been programmed subconsciously by their dogmas so that your conscious acts resemble those of the sheep worshippers.

That's a very interesting point.

People can consciously reject a religion on the surface, but still practice that religion's prejudices and feel deffensive over the dogmas of said religion.

It would be cool if it was just "Love thy neighbour" and stuff like that, but that's not the picture I'm getting here.

I wonder if that's an explaination.

As for me, I've rejected thelema because of twats who've ingrained theirselves in the hierarchical structure of magical orders, but I've still kept some of it's values like freedom to design rituals that one understands, celebrating life, and respecting people's freedom. stuff like that.

[deathcultreject]

All having fun boys :D I am.

It won't wash it away playing blame the Christians game on this issue.

You're just spewing out the same nonsense like on all the other Crowley threads. Yawnzzzzzzz.

Hmmmm, "fun" . . . .

. . . like that time you shouted something like "PROVE YOUR EXPERIENCES HAVE BEEN MORE TERRIFYING THAN MINE!" with refference to trauma based mind control . . .

. . . I'll just get my dictionary and look up the word 'fun'

[eternal_spirit]

Funny because that is what I said about you.

The fact that you confess to doing this for fun now throws into question your entire intent. It seems clear that you are not interested in 'exposing' anything but do this for amusement. Therefore it can readily seen that the so called research you claim to do is nothing but an excuse to bait trouble.


In short your entire claim to exposing evil occultism is a fraud. I guess dabbling in ritual black magic, as you did confess to doing, has made you the prey of demons. There are a class that do just what you do here. Obviously you have become a host for them.

The truth is that christianity is to blame for his reaction but you just live in denial of the facts. I note how you dont like anybody pointing fingers at the christians. Why is that? for somebody who claims to have no religious interest you are keen to defend them while criticising every other religion. All I can say is that if you are not a christian you have been programmed subconsciously by their dogmas so that your conscious acts resemble those of the sheep worshippers.


LOL too funny, you started on me and you're always baiting. You moan and whine many times when people post about your religion Judaism. Double standards me thinks so.

What I find funny is yours and other pro Crowleyites on this thread, calling me names and trying to come up with a different version of events, than the reality of what Crowley was saying (talking about human and animal sacrifice)

Show me where I confess to doing any black magic? Another of Marpat's lies.

And the fact that you go on about demons, when you claim demons are part of the human psyche/sub concious etc, so which is it... one or the other, can it be both?

And you've missed the point completely! You feel the need to bash Christianity, which as I previously said, won't make a jot of difference to the topic (Crowley admits to partaking in human sacrifice)

And yet you accuse me of being programmed LOL!

[eternal_spirit]

Hmmmm, "fun" . . . .

. . . like that time you shouted something like "PROVE YOUR EXPERIENCES HAVE BEEN MORE TERRIFYING THAN MINE!" with refference to trauma based mind control . . .

. . . I'll just get my dictionary and look up the word 'fun'

You are getting confused. What I do remember saying was something along the lines of "How do you know there aren't others here who have suffered more than yourself"

This was after you accusing me of being Michael Aquino (paedophile Satanist) and saying I was posting words that would trigger off your alters/MPD/DID.

When all I was doing was posting relevant info on one of your threads to do with MPD, I was only trying to help. And that's the thanks I get.

[eternal_spirit]

DCR do you really wanna go through all this if not we can both delete our posts?

[eternal_spirit]

It's obvious that Marpat and co are on some sick mission of character assassination on myself. Nothing new there. I replied with tit for tat, the difference being what I said was true, what they've said about me are lies. So boys, isn't it about time to quit with your childish games?

Look back a few posts and see what kind of reply I got for saying TW was repeating the usual stuff that he posted on other threads.

I've been told I have as well (first by them) so why should you have a problem when I say the same thing back.:confused:

EDIT and just for the record of those reading I am not some brainwashed Christian. I am not religious at all.

[thirdwave]

All having fun boys :D I am.

It won't wash it away playing blame the Christians game on this issue.

You're just spewing out the same nonsense like on all the other Crowley threads. Yawnzzzzzzz.

It only seems like nonsense to you because you lack intelligence.... and are, as Crowley would say, Vulgar :).

And I have not blamed anyone.. I have simply explained what Crowley thought of Christians... :rolleyes:

what is there to blame? I have told you the facts on what these quotes meant... you are free to believe what ever you like.. But its strange you get confused and stressed at other people for simply seeing what they guy was saying regardless of if he was bad or good...

You seem to have a need to see him as evil, And I think its because its not only him, but you have this fear for quite a few people... and your only back up to support you prosecution against them is that one of them will like someone like Crowley... or gain inspiration from him... so you need to prove Crowley is evil to hold up your argument that someone else is.. or someone like M Manson...

or maybe its because you fall very short of his ideals and your ego cant relax until you are assured that you know best and the choices you have made are right and he was just evil and bad.... and when you see so many who feel energised and inspired by his works you seem to get even more desperate to oppress his works... there see, I don't only blame Christians.

[thirdwave]

That's a very interesting point.

People can consciously reject a religion on the surface, but still practice that religion's prejudices and feel deffensive over the dogmas of said religion.


totally.. and this probably includes you and I and everyone else on this forum to an extent...

But you get some who are very much Christians even though they do not sing the tune.... there mind sets, fears and perceptions are created from generations of Religious Dogma and oppression....

We are living in a day where much of this is falling down and now we have people saying that Christianity is under attack... I see it just the heroin addict trying it on for another hit.

[thirdwave]

Another of Marpat's lies.

you say that...

(Crowley admits to partaking in human sacrifice)
and then say this?

and you wonder why people think you are a nut?

Crowley has never admitted to child and Animal Sacrifice.... and if he did, I would like to hear your story on why he was not arrested ?

[deathcultreject]

DCR do you really wanna go through all this if not we can both delete our posts?

Which posts do you intend to delete?

Every single one where you've had *fun* by spewing propaganda which targeted minorites NEED to deffend against?

[lizzy]

Hi ES......:)

The satanist /lucerferian /occultist wannabe's are frothing at the mouth again:eek: LOL...

Defending their master :D:D......LOL.....everyone is having fun....oh , goody:eek:LOL.

[eternal_spirit]

Which posts do you intend to delete?

Every single one where you've had *fun* by spewing propaganda which targeted minorites NEED to deffend against?

Not for my sake, but for your sake.

[deathcultreject]

Hi ES......:)

The satanist /lucerferian /occultist wannabe's are frothing at the mouth again:eek: LOL...

Defending their master :D:D......LOL.....everyone is having fun....oh , goody:eek:LOL.

What a curious imagination you have.

Is that your sterotype?

You might have met some of the same occultists as I have.

Of course, we all know that a bit of froth is the ultimate aphrodisiac, for it invites the passers by to wipe it it off with their hankies.

[thirdwave]

I am interested to hear what somone like ES thinks if quotes like this that Crowley freaquentyl knocked out... ?

"I am certainly of opinion that genius can be acquired, or, in the alternative, that it is an almost universal possession. Its rarity may be attributed to the crushing influence of a corrupted society. It is rare to meet a youth without high ideals, generous thoughts, a sense of holiness, of his own importance, which, being interpreted, is, of his own identity with God. Three years in the world, and he is a bank clerk or even a government official. Only those who intuitively understand from early boyhood that they must stand out, and who have the incredible courage and endurance to do so in the face of all that tyranny, callousness, and the scorn of inferiors can do; only these arrive at manhood uncontaminated." AC


And then regarding what You think he is which many would refer to as a "Black Magician".. or let me translate that for ES and Lizzy... "Satanist" :rolleyes: .


"Black magic is not a myth. It is a totally unscientific and emotional form of magic, but it does get results — of an extremely temporary nature. The recoil upon those who practice it is terrific.
It is like looking for an escape of gas with a lighted candle. As far as the search goes, there is little fear of failure!
To practice black magic you have to violate every principle of science, decency, and intelligence. You must be obsessed with an insane idea of the importance of the petty object of your wretched and selfish desires.
I have been accused of being a "black magician." No more foolish statement was ever made about me. I despise the thing to such an extent that I can hardly believe in the existence of people so debased and idiotic as to practice it." AC - The Sunday Dispatch (2 July 1933)

[thirdwave]

In one sense Magick may be defined as the name given to Science by the vulgar. AC

another relevant quote..

and another

"I admit that my visions can never mean to other men as much as they do to me. I do not regret this. All I ask is that my results should convince seekers after truth that there is beyond doubt something worth while seeking, attainable by methods more or less like mine. I do not want to father a flock, to be the fetish of fools and fanatics, or the founder of a faith whose followers are content to echo my opinions. I want each man to cut his own way through the jungle." AC

[eternal_spirit]

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_spirit http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=727751#post727751)
Another of Marpat's lies.

quote thirdwave:
you say that... Yes, a lie. He said - I said I was involved with black magic.:rolleyes: When I never did say that.
Quote:
(Crowley admits to partaking in human sacrifice)
quote thirdwave:
and then say this?

and you wonder why people think you are a nut?

Crowley has never admitted to child and Animal Sacrifice.... and if he did, I would like to hear your story on why he was not arrested ?
Why he wasn't arrested, I've already explained earlier.
Did you not read the first post in the thread? Here

So, if one of the other names Crowley used for himself was Frater Perdurabo

read this quote below and it will become clear.

From The Magick, in Paris, France:

"...it was the theory of the ancient magicians that any living being is a storehouse of energy varying in quantity according to the size and health of the animal , and in quality according to its mental and moral character. At the death of the animal this energy is liberated suddenly. The animal should therefore be killed within the Circle, or Triangle, as the case may be, so that its energy cannot escape...For the highest spiritual working one must accordingly choose that victim which contains the greatest and purest force. A male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence is the most satisfactory and suitable victim." (Magick, by Master Therion, published in 1929 by the Lecram Press, Paris, France)

A footnote on p. 95 says: "(4) It appears from the Magical Records of Frater Perdurabo that he made this particular sacrifice on an average about 150 times every year between 1912 and 1928.


So, he is admitting to human sacrifice. In his own words.

[eternal_spirit]

quote: Crowley lol

I have been accused of being a "black magician." No more foolish statement was ever made about me. I despise the thing to such an extent that I can hardly believe in the existence of people so debased and idiotic as to practice it." AC - The Sunday Dispatch (2 July 1933)

He's bluffing.

You're always saying he made stuff up, a known liar, fraudster and trickster. So, I'm saying his quote is another lie.

And here is proof
He embarked upon a psychic war cursing and using black magic on his former teacher Mcgregor Mathers. Mathers lost the war and became a broken man, soon after he died.

Anyone can look that up on the net.

[eternal_spirit]

Hi ES......:)

The satanist /lucerferian /occultist wannabe's are frothing at the mouth again:eek: LOL...

Defending their master :D:D......LOL.....everyone is having fun....oh , goody:eek:LOL.


Hi Liz I'm doing good. :)

Yes, I agree. Makes some of us wonder what their agenda is. ;)

And lmao I'm grinning like the cheshire cat :D :D :D

[thirdwave]

So, he is admitting to human sacrifice. In his own words.

Ok, So I am going to try and get in your head here and see if it makes any more sense...

So ok, I will just ignore all the stuff I have said which state why he wrote this which was also in Magick In Theory and practice.... and obviously why you do not print the whole section of the book...

But putting that aside I will take the quote you have singled out and I will look to see where he admits to doing animal and child sacrifice...

ok I will disect it and forget what he is really talking about and just take it the negative side you so desperately want it to be...


"...it was the theory of the ancient magicians that any living being is a storehouse of energy varying in quantity according to the size and health of the animal , and in quality according to its mental and moral character.

Ok so here is saying that Ancient Magicians saw the victims as energy depending on the size of them ans the health... So as far as I can tell at this point he has not admitted to doing it.


At the death of the animal this energy is liberated suddenly. The animal should therefore be killed within the Circle, or Triangle, as the case may be, so that its energy cannot escape...

He he explains that when they kill the victim the energy is released and the megicians look to keep that energy in the circle..

Again no reference to him taking part in it.

For the highest spiritual working one must accordingly choose that victim which contains the greatest and purest force. A male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence is the most satisfactory and suitable victim." And here we here him say what would be used for the most effective victim... again with no reference to his involvement...

So even when I pretend to not understand what he was really talking about I can still not see where he has admitted "in his own words" to doing these rituals...

So this is why I pointed out that you are a hypocrite in calling someone else a liar.... when it appears you are..

unless of course I have missed something in my analysing...

As for the fact he had another name used... I think this is clutching at straws if ever I heard it...

Have you read the whole section of Magick In Theory and practice to look further into what he is talking about?

have you read the foot notes??

[thirdwave]

He's bluffing.

You're always saying he made stuff up, a known liar, fraudster and trickster. So, I'm saying his quote is another lie.

And here is proof
He embarked upon a psychic war cursing and using black magic on his former teacher Mcgregor Mathers. Mathers lost the war and became a broken man, soon after he died.

Anyone can look that up on the net.

So you think Mathers was the good guy?, I assume you are clued up about the situation so educate me... lets here what that deal was?

and you like to ignore the fact that Masons used to attack Crowley with Magick?...


If you want to think he is bluffing then good for you....

lets see some rituals you know he has done that shows him to be evil??.. lets see some meat... you think because he wrote a couple scary poems thats the bases of Satanism????

I have read his works which is why I know he is not bluffing at all.... you have not read them and you WANT to think he is bluffing, you are desperate to believe he is bluffing...

[eternal_spirit]

quote: thirdwave
As for the fact he had another name used... I think this is clutching at straws if ever I heard it...

Are you having me on? Or clutching at straws. Seems like both.

[comawhite015]

third_wave, you're posting *relevant* quotes from Crowley's work?

Surely you know that they will be entirely ignored. Anything less than mindless hysteria tends to get brushed aside in these silly threads.

[humito]

too right coma.........what a waste of energy it all is ............reminds of the paul mc cartney was replaced threads:D

[eternal_spirit]

third_wave, you're posting *relevant* quotes from Crowley's work?

Surely you know that they will be entirely ignored. Anything less than mindless hysteria tends to get brushed aside in these silly threads.


Well let's see. This quote has been thoroughly debunked.

Quote:thirdwave
quote: Crowley lol

I have been accused of being a "black magician." No more foolish statement was ever made about me. I despise the thing to such an extent that I can hardly believe in the existence of people so debased and idiotic as to practice it." AC - The Sunday Dispatch (2 July 1933)
He's bluffing.

You're always saying he made stuff up, a known liar, fraudster and trickster. So, I'm saying his quote is another lie.

And here is proof
He embarked upon a psychic war cursing and using black magic on his former teacher Mcgregor Mathers. Mathers lost the war and became a broken man, soon after he died.

Anyone can look that up on the net.

[comawhite015]

Well let's see. This quote has been thoroughly debunked.


He's bluffing.

You're always saying he made stuff up, a known liar, fraudster and trickster. So, I'm saying his quote is another lie.

And here is proof
He embarked upon a psychic war cursing and using black magic on his former teacher Mcgregor Mathers. Mathers lost the war and became a broken man, soon after he died.

Anyone can look that up on the net.

*gasp*

If it's on the internet then it MUST be true!

Anyway how is that thorough?

[kasalt]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alistair_Crowley#Controversy

[comawhite015]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alistair_Crowley#Controversy

Surely you aren't quoting a public wiki that anyone can edit as a reliable source of information?

[kasalt]

Surely you aren't quoting a public wiki that anyone can edit as a reliable source of information?

I didn't quote anything, I simply posted a link. Whether it's reliable information or not on the other end of that link, I leave up to you to decide.

Did you see anything in particular that you think is false? If so, have at it.

[comawhite015]

I didn't quote anything, I simply posted a link. Whether it's reliable information or not on the other end of that link, I leave up to you to decide.

Did you see anything in particular that you think is false? If so, have at it.

Oh please. I believe the burden of proof lies with the people who are willing to make the outrageous claims.

What's in the wiki link that was supposed to irrevocably catch my eye?

Or *were* you just fishing?

[eternal_spirit]

Oh please. I believe the burden of proof lies with the people who are willing to make the outrageous claims.




I have provided evidence. It's up to you to disprove.

[comawhite015]

I have provided evidence. It's up to you to disprove.

You have provided no such thing. You have provided out-of-context quotes, links to websites created by hysterical zealots, and repetitious, childish arguments.


"Many have cited one or both of these quotes from Crowley, without context, as proof of immorality and sometimes of a vast child-abusing conspiracy.[67]"

That's the only bit on that wiki page that was worth reading. I thought the irony was kind of sweet.

You just like the attention.

[eternal_spirit]

You have provided out-of-context quotes, links to websites created by hysterical zealots, and repetitious, childish arguments.




.
Back up your claims with
Proof?
Would you put Icke under one of those categorys? Because the quote in the first post is in his books.

Stop being such a baby. Anyone reading this thread can see who's throwing out the abuse. And it is not me. :D

[comawhite015]

Back up your claims with
Proof?
Would you put Icke under one of those categorys? Because the quote in the first post is in his books.

Stop being such a baby. Anyone reading this thread can see who's throwing out the abuse. And it is not me. :D

Sigh.

You're so past it.

Later.

(you may wave byebye in a condescending manner now. Don't forget the smiley face and the retarded parting comment.)

[eternal_spirit]

Sigh.

You're so past it.

Later.

(you may wave byebye in a condescending manner now. Don't forget the smiley face and the retarded parting comment.)


Commenting on your own behaviour.

Let's agree to disagree.

[comawhite015]

Let's agree to disagree.

Deal. Ciao.

[thirdwave]

Are you having me on? Or clutching at straws. Seems like both.

another vague comment there...

[thirdwave]

third_wave, you're posting *relevant* quotes from Crowley's work?

Surely you know that they will be entirely ignored. Anything less than mindless hysteria tends to get brushed aside in these silly threads.

I thought if I post a few of them then at least people might think that with all his "bluffing" he accidentally put out some good works :)

[thirdwave]

You're always saying he made stuff up, a known liar, fraudster and trickster. So, I'm saying his quote is another lie.

And here is proof

No one has said he is a lair... that's just you.... it has been pointed out how he used to enjoy provoking the religious people who used to attack his works.... and he liked to expose the Irony and bullshit with in them...

Now, the fact of the matter is there HAVE been many people who have read his works and who have also practised his works and believe him to have not been wicked.... this is why when he comes out with comments which suggest he was not all about being wicked they are taken on bored.

I find if baffling how you demand these people should except he was evil.. when through their own experience and through there own perception of what he was saying, they are clearly not afraid or concerned about him..... Yet without any logic or real information you have gone on about him for over a year on this forum....

I am thankful that you are not a person in a position of power, that's all I can say.

Why just because YOU think he was "bluffing" ..why just because you are of the opinion that he killed kids and animals do you think everyone else must share it? ... is you having your opinion not enough?

and to make things worse you grab out of context quotes where he appears to be explain what ancient magicians used to do with animal sacrifice and claim its evidence he has done child and animal sacrifice.... (where it is a fact he was really talking about sex magick)

I mean are you having a laugh or something?

He did not hide the fact he knew about animal and child sacrifice anyway... Even if he was not really talking about Sex Magick (which it is a fact he was) he was still only talking about what "Black Magicians" done anyway....

you did not need to hide that in secret code anyway.... oddly enough though you did need ti hide talk of sex in secret code.

[deathcultreject]

Another of Marpat's lies.

Yes, a lie. He said - I said I was involved with black magic.:rolleyes: When I never did say that.


Claiming to be Michael Aquino . . .

Or is he a sweetly vulnerable apple white with a hint of grey shade of magic these days?

[supertzar]

Double posted...

[eternal_spirit]

Claiming to be Michael Aquino . . .

Or is he a sweetly vulnerable apple white with a hint of grey shade of magic these days?

I quoted him in a post with link. which went something like - "Allow me to introduce myself I am Michael Aquino" blah blah blah, quite a long article with other points including the writers views etc.

And then you accused me of being Aquino.

You must have been in paranoid delusional mode that day.

He
X Church of Satan and Sethian (Temple of Set) Psychological war fare department US Military(mind control) accused of being a pedo, but because of his contacts he walked.

Aquino was influenced like most modern Satanic groups by Crowley, who also influenced Hubbard and his mind controlling Scientology who AC spent time with.

You can find all these links on the forum, or do some searches.


Now that's cleared up, let's move along.

[supertzar]

So you think Mathers was the good guy?, I assume you are clued up about the situation so educate me... lets here what that deal was?

and you like to ignore the fact that Masons used to attack Crowley with Magick?...


If you want to think he is bluffing then good for you....

lets see some rituals you know he has done that shows him to be evil??.. lets see some meat... you think because he wrote a couple scary poems thats the bases of Satanism????

I have read his works which is why I know he is not bluffing at all.... you have not read them and you WANT to think he is bluffing, you are desperate to believe he is bluffing...


You come across as a little desperate to defend Crowley's innocence. What makes you so sure and why do you care? Philosophically Crowley seems neutral toward good and evil and my impression is that he sought to fully explore both and in doing so, transcend them. You know about belief and intelligence and their inverse proportions, so why do you want so hard to believe about Crowley?

[eternal_spirit]

Originally Posted by thirdwave http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=728142#post728142)
So you think Mathers was the good guy?, I assume you are clued up about the situation so educate me... lets here what that deal was?

That's irrelevant. You quoted AC saying he didn't do black magic etc.
When one of the first things you find when reading about him is that he embarked on a psychic war of black magic with his former tutor Mathers (You know this and everyone on this thread probably does, incase you forgot, you have been reminded twice now) We have already discussed this before on other threads.

You could find out why he was at war with Mathers? If you feel the need to justify AC's actions. Do some research.

So like I said he was bluffing in his quote. To fool the gullible.

[thirdwave]

You come across as a little desperate to defend Crowley's innocence.

Its not that I come across as desperate to defend it, Its that I am.

Because I think often the way people and things are projected by corrupt media or religious dogma is of no benefit.

What makes you so sure and why do you care?
what makes me so sure? .... sure of what?.. that many people enjoy and gain positive inspiration from his works?

How about asking them!?

What makes me so sure he did not commit child Sacrifice?.... I'm not the one that needs to be sure... those who accuse him of doing so are the ones that need to be sure.... I am simply sure of the fact they have no evidence of such things.



Philosophically Crowley seems neutral toward good and evil and my impression is that he sought to fully explore both and in doing so, transcend them. You know about belief and intelligence and their inverse proportions, so why do you want so hard to believe about Crowley?


Im not sure what you are saying here...

Why do I want to believe in Crowley? ... well its not that I want to believe in him.... I believe he was an intelligent guy ..way ahead of his years and had lots to teach people.... I don't think he was a Guru or a God... and by no means perfect... I simply do not think he was "an evil Satanist who wanted to imprison man kind" ... my reason for this is reading his works...

I am not desperate for others to see him the same... But I am desporet for people to be free to see what ever info is there without being judged and attacked.

You see I do not come here to force views... although when I see others puching info that I feel I can challenge then I will put forward the info and knowledge I have.... for example please find me a thread where I have started on Crowley.... I think there was one when I was fed up of being insulted and attacked and having people spam all the other threads so I started another, which was soon closed after the realisation that starting such a thread was pointless... have a look at all the other threads... and you ask me why I think I'm so right?? ... you ask ME why im desperate to defend him....

I not only think its worth while defending aspects of Crowley But I think it is also relevant to many other accusations that go on here.... when people see an artist who is inspired by the likes of Crowley, they are judged.... we see this allot, all because most people don't understand most of what is in the occult and simply judge it all on what the elite do.

I also don't think Crowley explored "Bad" as you put it.... he simply removed judgement on many things people find offensive... I think he made it quite clear on what he defined as evil.... Although Im not saying he was free of any mistakes in his life.

We have a group of people who are saying he was not Evil.... and another bunch saying he is.... and you ask me how I can be so sure? ... I don't get that outlook, should the accusers not be the ones who are sure, is it not them who have the job to provide the beef?

well this is what is being discussed... the only thing I can be sure about is the Crowley texts I have read and how I view them.

[eternal_spirit]

quote:thirdwave

Yet without any logic or real information you have gone on about him for over a year on this forum....

Nonsense. You have tried to defend a Illuminated pedo and hero to Satanists muderers and sickos. And attack me generally a nice guy, who is all for exposing Satanists and brainwashing religions/groups. Knock yourself out buddy.

quote:thirdwave
I am thankful that you are not a person in a position of power, that's all I can say.

And here is another example/attack/abuse/ as if we needed any more:rolleyes:

quote:thirdwave
did not need to hide that in secret code anyway.He did though, he used different names to make out he was writing about someone else doing the sacrifices. At the time he was alive not many people would even have read his books let alone he used different names for himself.

I only found out recently he used the name Frater Perdurabo, and I've done a fair amount of research.

[thirdwave]

That's irrelevant. Its only irrelevant to your agenda....

in all fairness if people have a fight then there are normally two sides to the story, usually if someone attacks someone else their is a reason for it.... instead you ignore the fight, and just follow the propaganda that Crowley killed him with black magick, again something that is pure implications as well..

guessing again.

I have heard a number of stories on this... I have heard Mathers attacked Crowley with magick so Crowley reversed the magick... I have also heard that Mathers simply died of a flu virus from some of his friends reports, but you seem to know it was Crowley's murderous deeds!.

Mathers was also a confirmed Freemason and Rosicrucian, so if Crowley was the same why would he want to kill him?....

and would someone like Mathers not be cursing people all the time doing what you think he does?

you make random claims... I simply just point out the flaws in them.

You quoted AC saying he didn't do black magic etc.
When one of the first things you find when reading about him is that he embarked on a psychic war of black magic with his former tutor Mathers
might be the first thing you read about him when you type in (Crowley, evil, satan) into google....

Please forward me this info, I'm interested to read it... and what web page it comes from :)

(You know this and everyone on this thread probably does, incase you forgot, you have been reminded twice now) We have already discussed this before on other threads.
I have no idea what you are talking about.... you may have had a little conversation/agreement in your belief tunnel but I was not present.

You could find out why he was at war with Mathers? If you feel the need to justify AC's actions. Do some research.
I have two more books waiting to be read and would much rather spend my time researching what the main believed and done.... rather than flicking through google at half a dozen claims to what he did with another magician.


So like I said he was bluffing in his quote. To fool the gullible.

you can say it 50 times if it makes you feel better ! :)

[eternal_spirit]

quote: thirdwave
should the accusers not be the ones who are sure, is it not them who have the job to provide the beef?Have done.

Down to you to try prove otherwise.

quote:thirdwave
most people don't understand most of what is in the occult and simply judge it all on what the elite do.Crowley was of the Elite. It's foolish to try make out he was some rebel. MI5/6. Cambridge, Rotshchild agent. Need I go on....there's more. Which has already been pointed out to you on other threads.

quote:thirdwave
find me a thread where I have started on Crowley.... I think there was one when I was fed up of being insulted and attacked and having people spam all the other threads so I started another, which was soon closed after the realisation that starting such a thread was pointless... have a look at all the other threads... and you ask me why I think I'm so right?? ... you ask ME why im desperate to defend him....You and your buddies started the attacks pages of it, so you were spamming the threads with insults.
I was posting on topic info (that cannot be spam)
The only person who agreed with you on your thread was Thelonius 32nd degree Scottish rite Mason, who is a proven liar and an X OTO member and involved with many different Lodges. Although he can be honest at times and I've enjoyed debating him and learnt some from him.

Yes why are you? You think the OTO is a sure way to get laid? :eek:

[supertzar]

Thirdwave, I respect your dedication to reason. I wonder if there are things to read between the lines that you are missing, though. Maybe there is no evidence, maybe there is. I am not convinced either way. Let me ask you this: If you could know for sure whether he killed human beings and it turned out that it was true, would you be surprised? What does your gut tell you?

[eternal_spirit]

quote:thirdwave
I have heard a number of stories on this... I have heard Mathers attacked Crowley with magick so Crowley reversed the magick... I have also heard that Mathers simply died of a flu virus from some of his friends reports, but you seem to know it was Crowley's murderous deeds!.No, I said on other threads, that Mathers may have died of natural casues, or has poison put in drink/food. AC could of done it, then spun the story that he used black magic, to boost his ego and make others think he was this bad ass magican to be feared and not messed with.

[eternal_spirit]

Kabbalistic and other forms of magic he advocated are partly about summoning demons which can be ordered to attack people.

[eternal_spirit]

Kabbalah also relates to mind control, abusing anothers freewill.

[thirdwave]

Nonsense. You have tried to defend a Illuminated pedo and hero to Satanists muderers and sickos. And attack me generally a nice guy, who is all for exposing Satanists and brainwashing religions/groups. Knock yourself out buddy.

Well if that's what you want to think then good for you.... but lets remember who is doing the attacking here, and who is doing the defending....

I would personally much prefer seeing an intelligent person who knows what he is talking about exposing the bad people of the world rather than someone that looks like one of their victims.


And here is another example/attack/abuse/ as if we needed any more:rolleyes:
LOL, good job Im not as weak as you, some people would get very offended at being called a pediofile defender... I think you like to dish it out but you cant take it back.

He did though, he used different names to make out he was writing about someone else doing the sacrifices. At the time he was alive not many people would even have read his books let alone he used different names for himself.

HU??? .. no he did not, more lies.

Show us the texts where he used another name to hide admitting it?

you have just used accused him of admitting it "in his own" words with some texts that appears to have him explaining how the ancients done it... so now I would be interested to see round 2?

or is it something I'm going to need to "research my self"?

I only found out recently he used the name Frater Perdurabo, and I've done a fair amount of research.

I take it you did not read the book written about him called "Perdurabo" then....

you have just found out he used that name so now you know all about it lol.... and of course its a new tool for you to try and use.

[thirdwave]

Kabbalah also relates to mind control, abusing anothers freewill.

false.

[thirdwave]

Have done.

Down to you to try prove otherwise.

ahh im not going to argue with ignorance.

Crowley was of the Elite. It's foolish to try make out he was some rebel. MI5/6. Cambridge, Rotshchild agent. Need I go on....there's more. Which has already been pointed out to you on other threads.

In your opinion.. its fascinating how you want to control others minds so much... very slimy as well.

You and your buddies started the attacks pages of it, so you were spamming the threads with insults.
more lies.


The only person who agreed with you on your thread was Thelonius 32nd degree Scottish rite Mason, who is a proven liar and an X OTO member and involved with many different Lodges. Although he can be honest at times and I've enjoyed debating him and learnt some from him.

Yes why are you? You think the OTO is a sure way to get laid? :eek:

maybe the %50 or so reading this thread might agree with a few of my points..... or are they just bluffing too?

Im sorry i cant debate with you, If I was to explain what its like I would probably be put on a warning... all I will say is its like, the more reason and sense you put down the more ignorance comes back at you.... and you realise you have just got sucked into this situation where there is a person who simply has no idea even what he thinks.


Bye bye.

[thirdwave]

Thirdwave, I respect your dedication to reason. I wonder if there are things to read between the lines that you are missing, though. Maybe there is no evidence, maybe there is. I am not convinced either way. Let me ask you this: If you could know for sure whether he killed human beings and it turned out that it was true, would you be surprised? What does your gut tell you?

If you want to believe Crowley was an Evil Satanist trying to imprison Humanity... then there is plenty of views on google to help support you... and you are more in your right to believe that... just please don't adopt the attitude of super man ES, the bringer of salvation. as the less dogmatic and imposing mind sets we have then the less joy the real bad guys will get in the world....

I happen to find Crowley's works an enlightening read... even though a bit scary at times..... but then again life can be scary... and if people like ES don't like that then I am happy to point them to an area they can kiss.

[supertzar]

You think I am talking about what I believe?

[eternal_spirit]

quote:thirdwave
In your opinion.. its fascinating how you want to control others minds so much... very slimy as well.

Ask the victims of abuse and mind control about how Kabbalah and Satanic ritual abuse was used on them. Look it up, or read some of the many threads on the forum.

In fact you've been involved and have already read some of said threads. My advice sort your head out matey, because you're making a fool of yourself.

[deathcultreject]

I quoted him in a post with link. which went something like - "Allow me to introduce myself I am Michael Aquino" blah blah blah, quite a long article with other points including the writers views etc.

And then you accused me of being Aquino.

You must have been in paranoid delusional mode that day.

He
X Church of Satan and Sethian (Temple of Set) Psychological war fare department US Military(mind control) accused of being a pedo, but because of his contacts he walked.

Aquino was influenced like most modern Satanic groups by Crowley, who also influenced Hubbard and his mind controlling Scientology who AC spent time with.

You can find all these links on the forum, or do some searches.


Now that's cleared up, let's move along.

There's no way that you're Aquino, he wouldn't be able to play stupid for as long as you have. You might be an attention seeker from TOS trying to make a scandal around your order to get it in the media. The TOS did that during the Satanic abuse hysteria, so why should they want to stop when it got them on TV?

You tried to create some confusion over wether or not you had even read the stuff that you were dumping on a thread that was intended for original research.

You claimed that you weren't even aware that you were introducing yourself as Michael Aquino between quotations.

It says a lot about the quality of your posting, doesn't it?

[eternal_spirit]

[quote=deathcultreject;729291]There's no way that you're Aquino, he wouldn't be able to play stupid for as long as you have. You might be an attention seeker from TOS trying to make a scandal around your order to get it in the media. The TOS did that during the Satanic abuse hysteria, so why should they want to stop when it got them on TV?



That defies logic. I post and expose Aquino and others. Including some documented cases. I admit I'm no expert on the topic. I think there are rogue elements in the intelligence agencies, Masons, and many other groups and individuals involved, AC was part of it.

You tried to create some confusion over wether or not you had even read the stuff that you were dumping on a thread that was intended for original research.
I may have read so much of the article and decided it was on topic, and of interest to readers/victims, help them piece the puzzle together, because it is a maze of info. It's no way an easy topic to understand.
You claimed that you weren't even aware that you were introducing yourself as Michael Aquino between quotations.
I've explained this numerous times, including Today. We even had PM as far as I can remember.
It says a lot about the quality of your posting, doesn't it?No, this whole debate of you accusing me of posting trigger codes to induce MPD alters, begs the question, are you genuine, taking the piss?

See if you like being accused - Are you working for the other side, going round forums collecting victims personal details are you a programmer?

Or suffering from delusions?

There must be a reason why you think what you do about me.

Which is is it?

Your defence is always, you're in one of your bad alters, hence the attitude and confusing nature of some of your posts.

My previous points and on other threads, was there maybe some here, who are MPD/programmed and not even aware they are, that's perfect mind control.

Also there's some here who are damaged not by mind control. Life and people can screw you bad. And there's issues people don't want to talk about on an open forum.

[thirdwave]

You think I am talking about what I believe?

No im just saying in general... Im not telling people what to think of him Im just pointing out what is over looked and what has been so falsely presented as fact... rather than theory..

[supertzar]

Isn't it a fact he did attempted to sacrifice the goat when it was about to bust a nut in his old lady? Lol, but seriously - that is ill.

[deathcultreject]

No, this whole debate of you accusing me of posting trigger codes to induce MPD alters, begs the question, are you genuine, taking the piss?


The fact the you deny the threat of triggering to MC survivers proves that you support the abusers. I don't care why.

Your intentions are irrelevant, and you can't even get your story straight about them.

NO ONE is stupid enough to presume that the abusers / programmers would NOT hide triggers in amongst the kind of material that you were dumping on threads for survivers of mind control. (Without even checking it for anything suspicious yourself . . . WTF!?!?)

Not even you.

[supertzar]

I don't read that as him denying the threat of triggers to MPD/DID people. It sounds like he is speaking about it being incredible to accuse him of doing it.

[eternal_spirit]

The fact the you deny the threat of triggering to MC survivers proves that you support the abusers. I don't care why.

Your intentions are irrelevant, and you can't even get your story straight about them.

NO ONE is stupid enough to presume that the abusers / programmers would NOT hide triggers in amongst the kind of material that you were dumping on threads for survivers of mind control. (Without even checking it for anything suspicious yourself . . . WTF!?!?)

Not even you.


Are you still asccusing me of using triggers? And you're spreading disinfo trying to make out I'm a mind programmer wtf:confused:
Stupid? How so, when one doesn't even know what one is looking for (triggers) amongst articles posted.


And have you any info that suggests it's even possible to use triggers with posts on the internet>?

An article about Satanists and mind control, warning people about such things. How is that supporting abuse? it's the opposite.

My posts are perfectly clear. It's you who is clouding the issues, and feel I'm wasting my time and you're wasting other's time with your illogical posts and paranoid delusions about myself.

You need to prove you have any coherent intelligent or any usefull info on these issues, before you call me stupid. Some advice - you are like thirdwave, you have a false sense of superiority. Get over it for your own sake.

[deathcultreject]

I don't read that as him denying the threat of triggers to MPD/DID people. It sounds like he is speaking about it being incredible to accuse him of doing it.

Lets just say that he doesn't feel the need to be careful about it, since he's cutting and pasting from dodgy resources and then claiming that he hasn't even read the material himself.

Anyone else who's researched the MC area would have the courtesy to summarise and post links.

Triggers aren't just used to bring forth trained alters for a task. They are a potential method of dealing with survivers who get to a certain point of recovery and start looking the whole thing up.

[supertzar]

There is a big difference between carelessly posting information that may be triggering and doing it on purpose.

[deathcultreject]

Some advice - you are like thirdwave, you have a false sense of superiority. Get over it for your own sake.

In terms of making an inteligent post, thirdwave appears to have an ability which is superior to yours.

I'd love to see everyone as my equal, I think thridwave would as well, but you're not making it easy.

Do something your good at and impress people, and you might not get talked down to so much.

[eternal_spirit]

Right deathcultreject here is the post that caused you to accuse me of being Michael Aquino. Proof that you are paranoid delusional. Or some kind of agent.


http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=256204&postcount=23

http://www.rense.com/general63/hey.htm

During the February 5 hearing, Noreen Gosch stunned the court with sworn testimony linking U.S. Army Lt. Col. Michael Aquino (ret.) to the nationwide pedophile ring.
Then, the Aquino bombshell: "Well, then there was a man by the name of Michael Aquino. He was in the military. He had top Pentagon clearances. He was a pedophile. He was a Satanist. He's founded the Temple of Set. And he was a close friend of Anton LaVey. The two of them were very active in ritualistic sexual abuse. And they deferred funding from this government program to use [in] this experimentation on children."



Aquino, Satan and the U.S. military:

"Throughout much of the 1980s, Aquino was at the center of a controversy involving the Pentagon's acquiescence to outright Satanic practices inside the military services. Aquino was also a prime suspect in a series of pedophile scandals involving the sexual abuse of hundreds of children, including the children of military personnel serving at the Presidio U.S. Army station in the San Francisco Bay Area."

"Furthermore, even as Aquino was being investigated by Army Criminal Investigation Division officers for involvement in the pedophile cases, he was retaining highest-level security clearances, and was involved in pioneering work in military psychological operations ("psy-ops")."


Satanic subversion of the U.S. Military
by Jeffrey Steinberg
Softies on Satan

"When the San Francisco Chronicle contacted Army officials at the Presidio to find out if Aquino's security clearances had been lifted as the result of the pedophile investigations, the reporters were referred to the Pentagon, where Army spokesman Maj. Greg Rixon told them, "The question is whether he is trustworthy or can do the job. There is nothing that would indicate in this case that there is any problem we should be concerned about."

"Indeed, the Pentagon had already given its de facto blessings to Aquino's long-standing public association with the Church of Satan and his own successor "church," the Temple of Set. As early as April 1978, the U.S. Army had circulated A Handbook for Chaplains "to facilitate the provision of religious activities." Both the Church of Satan and the Temple of Set were listed among the "other" religions to be tolerated inside the U.S. military. A section of the handbook dealing with Satanism stated, "Often confused with witchcraft, Satanism is the worship of Satan (also known as Baphomet or Lucifer). Classical Satanism, often involving 'black masses,' human sacrifices, and other sacrilegious or illegal acts, is now rare. Modern Satanism is based on both the knowledge of ritual magick and the 'anti-establishment' mood of the 1960s. It is related to classical Satanism more in image than substance, and generally focuses on 'rational self-interest with ritualistic trappings.' "


From 'psy-ops' to 'mindwars'

"Aquino's steady rise up the hierarchy of the Satanic world closely paralleled his career advances inside the U.S. military. According to an official biography circulated by the Temple of Set, "Dr. Aquino is High Priest and chief executive officer of the Temple of Set, the nation's principal Satanic church, in which he holds the degree of Ipissimus VI. He joined the original Church of Satan in 1969, becoming one of its chief officials by 1975 when the Temple of Set was founded. In his secular profession he is a Lieutenant Colonel, Military Intelligence, U.S. Army, and is qualified as a Special-Forces officer, Civil Affairs officer, and Defense Attaché. He is a graduate of the Command and General Staff College, the National Defense University and the Defense Intelligence College, and the State Departments' Foreign Service Institute."

"Aquino was deeply involved in what has been called the "revolution in military affairs" ("RMA"), the introduction of the most kooky "Third Wave," "New Age" ideas into military long-range planning, which introduced such notions as "information warfare" and "cyber-warfare" into the Pentagon's lexicon."

"In the early 1980s, at the same time that Heidi and Alvin Toffler were spinning their Tavistock "Third Wave" utopian claptrap to some top Air Force brass, Aquino and another U.S. Army colonel, Paul Vallely, were co-authoring an article for Military Review. Although the article was never published in the journal, the piece was widely circulated among military planners, and was distributed by Aquino's Temple of Set. The article, titled "From PSYOP to Mindwar: The Psychology of Victory," endorsed some of the ideas published in a 1980 Military Review article by Lt. Col. John Alexander,"

And what is "mindwar?"

"The term is harsh and fear-inspiring," Aquino wrote. "And it should be: It is a term of attack and victory-not one of rationalization and coaxing and conciliation. The enemy may be offended by it; that is quite all right as long as he is defeated by it. A definition is offered: Mindwar is the deliberate, aggressive convincing of all participants in a war that we will win that war."

"For Aquino, "mindwar" is a permanent state of strategic psychological warfare against the populations of friend and foe nations alike. "In its strategic context, mindwar must reach out to friends, enemies and neutrals alike across the globe ... through the media possessed by the United States which have the capabilities to reach virtually all people on the face of the Earth."

"These media are, of course, the electronic media-television and radio. State of the art developments in satellite communication, video recording techniques, and laser and optical transmission of broadcasts make possible a penetration of the minds of the world such as would have been inconceivable just a few years ago."

"Above all else, Aquino argues, mindwar must target the population of the United States, "by denying enemy propaganda access to our people, and by explaining and emphasizing to our people the rationale for our national interest. ... Rather it states a whole truth that, if it does not now exist, will be forced into existence by the will of the United States."

Please let me introduce myself: Michael Aquino



Michael Aquino. Connection:

"Then, the Aquino bombshell: "Well, then there was a man by the name of Michael Aquino. He was in the military. He had top Pentagon clearances. He was a pedophile. He was a Satanist. He's founded the Temple of Set. And he was a close friend of Anton LaVey. The two of them were very active in ritualistic sexual abuse. And they deferred funding from this government program to use [in] this experimentation on children."

source: Click Here
A Documentary called: Conspiracy of Silence, about a boy prostitute sex ring, operating in the White House was scheduled to air in the United States, in 1994, on the Discovery Channel, but was "pulled" at the last minute. "Boy prostitutes 15 years old (and younger) were taking midnight tours of the White H

http://216.239.63.104/search?q=cache...elawpartycomma (http://216.239.63.104/search?q=cache:LAKm0Zf07DAJ:www.thelawpartycomma)


See the Conspiracy of Silence Documentary for free here:

A book was written about the Franklin scandal called: The Franklin Cover-up by Senator John DeCamp



Pedophocracy Series by David McGowan

The Pedophocracy, Part I: From Brussels:

The Pedophocracy, Part II: ... to Washington:

The Pedophocracy, Part III: Uncle Sam Wants Your Children

The Pedophocracy, Part IV: McMolestation

The Pedophocracy, Part V: It Couldn't Happen Here

( Copy and paste links into another browser )

[marpat]

Isn't it a fact he did attempted to sacrifice the goat when it was about to bust a nut in his old lady? Lol, but seriously - that is ill.

There is such a story but it goes that he had to do the act himself as the goat wasnt interested.

We can look at such a thing in various ways. We can think it actually happened and was part of some bizarre ritual experiment or we can look at it and think he was pulling somebodies. By claiming such a thing he would have evoked shock and horror from people who he considered repressed.

Did it really happen, who knows for sure? would he make such a claim to piss people off? yes.

[marpat]

Are you still asccusing me of using triggers? And you're spreading disinfo trying to make out I'm a mind programmer wtf:confused:
Stupid? How so, when one doesn't even know what one is looking for (triggers) amongst articles posted.


And have you any info that suggests it's even possible to use triggers with posts on the internet>?

An article about Satanists and mind control, warning people about such things. How is that supporting abuse? it's the opposite.

My posts are perfectly clear. It's you who is clouding the issues, and feel I'm wasting my time and you're wasting other's time with your illogical posts and paranoid delusions about myself.

You need to prove you have any coherent intelligent or any usefull info on these issues, before you call me stupid. Some advice - you are like thirdwave, you have a false sense of superiority. Get over it for your own sake.


Your posts are not clear though, they are laced with biased information by people who dont have a clue what they are writing about. It is not even your own work, just cut and pastes from other people. I guess it saves you having to think for yourself.

How many times has the stuff you post been shredded because it is inaccurate and the result of sexualy repressed christians? some of the stuff you post comes from christian websites so is obviously biased. I do remember one of your posts that told people to turn their backs on thelemic philosophy and at the bottom of the page was a command for people to give up the occult and become good catholics, this from a person who does not claim to be religious.

[supertzar]

It just seems unlikely that he was innocent and only said he did rituals like that for shock value. When you consider the extent of ritual abuse in today's world and how much it seems to be intertwined with secret societies and the like, it just challenges the imagination to think that Crowley had no part in it.

[marpat]

Ask the victims of abuse and mind control about how Kabbalah and Satanic ritual abuse was used on them. Look it up, or read some of the many threads on the forum.

In fact you've been involved and have already read some of said threads. My advice sort your head out matey, because you're making a fool of yourself.

We should ask people who have been seriously abuse by christian mind control methods. Pity Crowley wasnt here, he coud let you know how christian biggots destroyed his life.

[eternal_spirit]

In terms of making an inteligent post, thirdwave appears to have an ability which is superior to yours.

I'd love to see everyone as my equal, I think thridwave would as well, but you're not making it easy.

Do something your good at and impress people, and you might not get talked down to so much.


Look you Marpat and him can go get stuffed. Both of you start on me time after time.
It's bully tactics, psychological abuse with mal intent.

I have to defend myself against your pathetic lies and mind games.

[marpat]

Look you Marpat and him can go get stuffed. Both of you start on me time after time.
It's bully tactics, psychological abuse with mal intent.

I have to defend myself against your pathetic lies and mind games.

Not long ago you were asking if we were having fun because you were. Whats wrong, has your baiting bit you on the arse?

[marpat]

It just seems unlikely that he was innocent and only said he did rituals like that for shock value. When you consider the extent of ritual abuse in today's world and how much it seems to be intertwined with secret societies and the like, it just challenges the imagination to think that Crowley had no part in it.


But you are just speculating. Unlikely that he was innocent? you should be a judge for the illuminati.

[supertzar]

But you are just speculating. Unlikely that he was innocent? you should be a judge for the illuminati.

Call it educated guessing. I think that is a more accurate term than speculation in this case. Yes, I am making an educated guess, which is entirely different than providing evidence, although I do believe there is evidence that he attempted the goat ritual.

[eternal_spirit]

Pity Crowley wasnt here, he coud let you know how christian biggots destroyed his life.

Back up that statement? Proof?

And saying what Christians have written about him (long after his death mostly) won't wash, because there's many none Christians also wrote about him, many of those articles I've posted on other threads. (to shut you up moaning about Christians articles and going off topic and accusing me of being some fundamentalist Christian another one of your lies)


He self destructed, did the Christians stick the needle full of heroin in his arm, make him fuck goats, or sacrifice humans, make him join up and work for the Jewish Rotshchilds and Jewish Marxist created Communists (Rothschilds funded)

[eternal_spirit]

Quote:
Originally Posted by marpat http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=729572#post729572)
Your posts are not clear though, they are laced with biased information by people who dont have a clue what they are writing about. It is not even your own work, just cut and pastes from other people. I guess it saves you having to think for yourself.

Me and DCR were trying to debate MPD trigger codes (and you replied with my quote)with this diatribe and nonsense. Go away troll.

[marpat]

Me and DCR were trying to debate MPD trigger codes (and you replied with my quote)with this diatribe and nonsense. Go away troll.

Not having fun now? what a pity :D

[eternal_spirit]

DCR some good info on your Ritual abuse and Mind control thread. Hope you can get back on track and stop with the put downs.

[marpat]

DCR some good info on your Ritual abuse and Mind control thread. Hope you can get back on track and stop with the put downs.


This is not a mind control thread.

[antinwo]

Thanks for the great pic of yourself Marpat:D

[thirdwave]

Isn't it a fact he did attempted to sacrifice the goat when it was about to bust a nut in his old lady? Lol, but seriously - that is ill.

Im not to sure about that one as far as I know it is not a fact... there is no doubt that over time he done some twisted stuff... but it was not a practice that he made others feel they had to do...

I admit that my visions can never mean to other men as much as they do to me. I do not regret this. All I ask is that my results should convince seekers after truth that there is beyond doubt something worth while seeking, attainable by methods more or less like mine. I do not want to father a flock, to be the fetish of fools and fanatics, or the founder of a faith whose followers are content to echo my opinions. I want each man to cut his own way through the jungle.

Another thing is, why is it some are not open to (and im not saying its the case) that he was a good guy who was eventually attacked by the PTB and possessed.... so there for over his life there would be some differing materiel... the fact that these people do not even contemplate that to me shows what their motives are...

[thirdwave]

you are like thirdwave, you have a false sense of superiority. Get over it for your own sake.

its not false... I am far from a perfect person and have many faults but I am more intelligent than you... I see more than you and and I have a better perspective on things than you do... and yes with regards to these subjects, I am superior to you.. its not a complex or an ego its simply how it is.... and it is mainly down to your own doing...


I am certainly of opinion that genius can be acquired, or, in the alternative, that it is an almost universal possession. Its rarity may be attributed to the crushing influence of a corrupted society. - AC

[thirdwave]

I'd love to see everyone as my equal, I think thridwave would as well, but you're not making it easy.



and you think right.

[thirdwave]

There is such a story but it goes that he had to do the act himself as the goat wasnt interested.

We can look at such a thing in various ways. We can think it actually happened and was part of some bizarre ritual experiment or we can look at it and think he was pulling somebodies. By claiming such a thing he would have evoked shock and horror from people who he considered repressed.

Did it really happen, who knows for sure? would he make such a claim to piss people off? yes.

I have heard that he was known to like to frighten people in a ritual as it created an energy of some kind.... I think I heard it from Robert Anton Wilson.. I will have a surf around for it...

[eternal_spirit]

quote: thirdwave

I am more intelligent than you... I see more than you and and I have a better perspective on things than you do... and yes with regards to these subjects, I am superior to you.. its not a complex or an ego its simply how it is.... and it is mainly down to your own doing...


Do you know any other jokes?

[supertzar]

Im not to sure about that one as far as I know it is not a fact... there is no doubt that over time he done some twisted stuff... but it was not a practice that he made others feel they had to do...



Another thing is, why is it some are not open to (and im not saying its the case) that he was a good guy who was eventually attacked by the PTB and possessed.... so there for over his life there would be some differing materiel... the fact that these people do not even contemplate that to me shows what their motives are...

I don't take anyone's word as gospel, but here is someone who has written books on Crowley. I think Ol' Aleister himself spoke about it. Maybe we'll see.

Another Crowley expert featured in the television programme is Aaron Paramour, a writer and occult researcher who went on a pilgrimage in 1996 following in the footsteps of Crowley and visited the Abbey of Thelema in Sicily.

He said: "To Crowley this was a big experiment, an experiment in a different way of living. Performing sex magic rituals under the influence of hash and cocaine, letting the children roam about and observe the rituals.

"One particular evening Crowley forced his then mistress, a young American, Leigh Hirsig, to perform a sex ritual with a billy-goat."

He added: "He truly believed that the absolute freedom could do nothing but good. He tried to push boundaries, it was all an experiment."

[supertzar]

Crowley just reeks of ritual abuse. If it looks like a piece of shit, smells like a piece of shit, tastes like a piece of shit - it's probably a piece of shit.

That is when Crowley decamped to Sicily, where the cost of living was dirt cheap, and he would pass his most infamous years. With his new American mistress Leah Hirsig, a new baby daughter and her nurse who had a child of her own, he set up home in a primitive hilltop villa which he named 'the Abbey of Thelema' and dedicated it to his self-indulgent cult.

Dogs and children ran round a yard littered with all the paraphernalia of drug-taking and the black arts. Here Crowley's half-starved children were made to witness sexual debaucheries, including the ritual violation of his mistress by a goat on the instructions, so he claimed, of one of his guiding spirits, the Secret Chiefs.

When one of his visitors died after drinking cat's blood in a black magic ceremony, his evil reputation was assured.
Crowley was now a universal figure of hate. Chased out of Italy and dubbed the man we would most like to hang', he fled to North Africa, sleeping with young boys and prostitutes in every city he visited.

[deathcultreject]

There is a big difference between carelessly posting information that may be triggering and doing it on purpose.

Not if someone gets triggered by it.

Well actualy, there is. A murder has a different energy to a manslaughter, but that's just being picky.

[marpat]

Thanks for the great pic of yourself Marpat:D

It is a magic mirror, you only see what you really are in it.

[marpat]

Crowley just reeks of ritual abuse. If it looks like a piece of shit, smells like a piece of shit, tastes like a piece of shit - it's probably a piece of shit.


Well I guess thats what the media of the day reported him as being. Too bad that your mind is made up not by study of his books and works but by what has been written about him by the blind.

If I said Icke was crazy because he was reported as being so would you believe that also? if he states crazy things and prints crazy things then does that make him crazy? depends on your point of view really doesnt it.

[marpat]

Do you know any other jokes?

Do you know the one about the repressed christian who thought he was an atheist? :D:D

[supertzar]

Not if someone gets triggered by it.

Well actualy, there is. A murder has a different energy to a manslaughter, but that's just being picky.

I know how easy it is to inadvertently trigger a multiple and I think your insinuation that anyone who does that is on the side of the abusers is unfortunate. Educating someone who doesn't know better would be much more appreciated.

[deathcultreject]

It is a magic mirror, you only see what you really are in it.

I look fat in it :eek:

[supertzar]

Well I guess thats what the media of the day reported him as being. Too bad that your mind is made up not by study of his books and works but by what has been written about him by the blind.

If I said Icke was crazy because he was reported as being so would you believe that also? if he states crazy things and prints crazy things then does that make him crazy? depends on your point of view really doesnt it.

Does it sound like my mind is made up? I use words like "probably" and "most likely" because I do not like to "make up" my mind too much about anything.

[deathcultreject]

I know how easy it is to inadvertently trigger a multiple and I think your insinuation that anyone who does that is on the side of the abusers is unfortunate. Educating someone who doesn't know better would be much more appreciated.

I know I know, but when you're a surviver yourself and you're heavily stalked at the time . . .

I don't think you'll find many people who've survived any kind of ongoing threat who suffer fools gladly.

[supertzar]

Anyway, I am going on these persistent stories like attempting the goat ritual and doing it in front of the kids.

[deathcultreject]

Do you know the one about the repressed christian who thought he was an atheist? :D:D

Oh that's just tasteless :eek:

You don't mean the one who can't get laid because his subconscious is still fanaticaly convinced that it's a sin, do you?

[thirdwave]

Anyway, I am going on these persistent stories like attempting the goat ritual and doing it in front of the kids.

here is his book.... flick though it... its an interesting read...

http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/confess/index.html

[eternal_spirit]

Quote:
Originally Posted by supertzar http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=729940#post729940)
I know how easy it is to inadvertently trigger a multiple and I think your insinuation that anyone who does that is on the side of the abusers is unfortunate. Educating someone who doesn't know better would be much more appreciated.

quote deathcultreject
I know I know, but when you're a surviver yourself and you're heavily stalked at the time . . .

I don't think you'll find many people who've survived any kind of ongoing threat who suffer fools gladly.
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=729556&postcount=140

So here is the quote/link that you said may be used as a trigger. I think you're wrong to make such a claim about this article.

If the fool comment is aimed at me, then you're a bigger fool than you were before. First line your agreeing with Superztar, which is an improvement.

If you have knowledge educate the readers.
And have you any info that suggests it's even possible to use triggers with posts on the internet>?

[supertzar]

Anything can be a trigger. What triggers an individual depends on the specific programming they had.

[thetonic]

I couldnt get past Marprats responses , makes me want to puke ...

here we go

those that voted yes...have reasonable level of cognitive discernment and can put two and two together through intuition and spirit ... It doesnt take a rocket scientist to realize Crowley was willing to do the badness

those that voted no are the poser satanist... they really havent experiecned what it is to sacrificially murder a living soul, theyve only read the dirge that crowley and the like have spewed and think it still sounds kind of cool , until they reach the point of no-return , then they will cry like a little girl to go back to 'normality'

those who chose undecided... conspiracy noobs

those who chose other ... they are fucking fucked up , watch out for dem... ;) kasalt

yes
armoured_amazon, boots, dawnismygoddess, drael, drakul, endlessvista, eternal_spirit, konnster, lizzy, meksar, rydeon, soulja
12 48.00%
no
deathcultreject, humito, krakhead, lilloz, mynameis, rhydra, seaweed, thirdwave
8 32.00%
undecided
comawhite015, element, eyepod, hordeari
4 16.00%
other
kasalt

[eternal_spirit]

Cheers thetonic, that was my first poll I've done on the forum, took me ages to figure out how to do it :o

Laters all.

[size_of_light]

I didn't partake in the poll, but for me, as a general rule of thumb, if someone says something and there's no outward indication that it should be taken in any other way than in it's literal form, then anyone who later makes the claim that it should be interpreted symbolically or as some sort of code, has a lot of work to do to prove that case.

If the case can't be convincingly made for the latter, then the author of the original material deserves to be assessed on the literal interpretation.

It's pretty difficult to believe that Crowley was a cleanskin and not the deranged, murderous monster he appears to be.

[kasalt]

those who chose other ... they are fucking fucked up , watch out for dem... ;) kasalt

:D

I chose "other" as a bit of a lark, because what more can be said that hasn't been said already? Nothing that I can think of, so here we go again.

What do we know about Crowley? We do know that Crowley sacrificed animals in his rituals as a way to manipulate or appease dark and sinister forces, so from the start it should be obvious to any reasonable person that Crowley was of an extremely sick mentality. This plain and simple observation was demonstrated explicitly in the death of Raoul Loveday, an associate of Crowley, who died of distemper after drinking the blood of a cat that they had sacrificed. And that's just from the lighter side of Crowley's activities. But that's all been said before, so if you want to read it, you can do a forum search. I don't want to talk about it anymore, Crowley is a real drag--and not the kind that gives me a buzz, either.

[thirdwave]

I couldnt get past Marprats responses , makes me want to puke ...


I guess that sums up your condition.


here we go

those that voted yes...have reasonable level of cognitive discernment and can put two and two together through intuition and spirit ... It doesnt take a rocket scientist to realize Crowley was willing to do the badness

lol, "Willing to do the badness"?

its funny you talk about rocket scientists.... you only need to look at the question here, ES has actually asked if when Crowley is talking about ancients doing animal sacrifice and implying they also used Children.... that he is using "secret code" for animal and child sacrifice! lol..... Well eeerrr, no, he is not using secret code and everyone can see this.... as he appears to be literally talking about it.... the Fact is and is made very clear when you read more of his works, he was very clearly talking about Sex magick and as using secret code for this... (hence why it is not first apparent) lol....

Now, I guess unless one knew him personally and knew exactly what he got up to in his own time then you cant Know he did not do it or know he did.... But if we are to go by these things raised up here then if you are prepared to check the footnotes in the book and also read his other works then its quite clear that this is not about animal or child sacrifice and there is very little put into his works to teach such practices... and you only need to look at thelemites to see that they are not killing children.

but people like you are relevant as its that ignorance that Crowley did not really give a shit about... he did not care if you thought he meant animal sacrifice.


those that voted no are the poser satanist...
Well it goes to show how much sense you talk, because I voted no and I do not belive Satan even exsistes! lol


they really havent experiecned what it is to sacrificially murder a living soul, theyve only read the dirge that crowley and the like have spewed and think it still sounds kind of cool , until they reach the point of no-return , then they will cry like a little girl to go back to 'normality'

if you are in "Normality" then I certainly wont be crying to get there!! :eek:

those who chose undecided... conspiracy noobs

Or maybe they dont let people like you make up their minds for them?.. thankfully..


those who chose other ... they are fucking fucked up , watch out for dem... ;) kasalt


thanks for that!...

Did I tell you that I voted NO :)

[thirdwave]

I didn't partake in the poll, but for me, as a general rule of thumb, if someone says something and there's no outward indication that it should be taken in any other way than in it's literal form, then anyone who later makes the claim that it should be interpreted symbolically or as a code of some sort, has a lot of fucking work to do to prove that case.

If the case can't be convincingly made for the latter, then the author of the original material deserves to be assessed on the literal interpretation.

It's pretty difficult to believe that Crowley was a cleanskin and not the deranged, murderous monster he appears to be.

Well here is an example of you not really having read it....

Firstly even if he was talking about Child Sacrifice... He was not talking about him... he was talking about Ancient Magicians who he later called "Black Magicians" .... he was not referring to his own works for a start..... he was telling people what they do....

If people want to think he sacrificed 150 children a year, then they are free to do so....

here is the book of which it first came from with someone pointing out the sex parts...

http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/aba/chap12.html

I would advice to read the whole chapter...

[eternal_spirit]

I do believe there is evidence that he attempted the goat ritual.

quote
He also spent time in Italy, but was expelled because Italian authorities accused his disciples of sacrificing human infants in occult rituals. According to one source, Crowley resided in the Abbey of Thelema near Cefalu Sicily, and revived ancient Dionysian ceremonies. During a 1921 ritual, he induced a he-goat to copulate with his mistress, then slit the animal's throat at the moment of orgasm.

And Crowley's practices go on to be even more disgusting.

end quote
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24416


This may explain as another reason why he tried to pass off sacrifice for allegory. When in fact orgasm and blood sacrifice is what he really meant. (not ejaculation and sperm being viewed as sacrificing the innocent male child as some have suggested)

Even if you accept the so called allegory in brackets above, this explanation may have been added to his books - either at the time he was being accused of sacrifices, or even later by a third party pro Crowleyite to try cover up the truth.

[thirdwave]

Yep that's right, Mussolini's fascist illuminati government, kicked him out the Italy, land of the Catholic Christians.. ... because of stories of ritual sacrifices as his lodge... of course for some odd reason they did not arrest him.. let alone convict him... Just gave him lots of bad publicity.

With this story it is quite amusing.. because of a Mass murderer like Mussolini who stood side by side with Hitler for much of WW2, kicked Crowley out of Italy... it just shows how rrrreeeaaally bad Crowley was... lol

B...b because even Mussolini could not stomach him ... :rolleyes:

He also left to die poor in a cheep bedsit... I guess it must have been his British Freemason buddies sorting him out!...


here it is in Crowleys words

"From the start my position was precarious. I was practically penniless, I had been betrayed in the most shameless and senseless way by practically everyone with whom I was in business relations, I had no means of access to any of the normal conveniences which are considered essential to people engaged in such tasks. On the top of this there sprang up a sudden whirlwind of wanton treachery and brainless persecution, so imbecile yet so violent as to throw even quite sensible people off their base. I ignored this and carried on, but almost immediately both I and one of my principal assistants were stricken down with lingering illness. I carried on. My assistant died1. I carried on. His death was the signal for a fresh outburst of venomous falsehoods. I carried on. The agitation resulted in my being exiled from Italy; through no accusation of any kind was, or could be, alleged against me. That meant that I was torn away from even the most elementary conveniences for writing this book. I carried on. At the moment of writing this paragraph everything in connection with the book is entirely in the air. I am carrying on."

http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/confess/chapter1.html

[eternal_spirit]

Even if you accept the so called allegory in brackets above, this explanation may have been added to his books - either at the time he was being accused of sacrifices, or even later by a third party pro Crowleyite to try cover up the truth.

No one here has the original first print editions of his books, so how would you know what's been added in later reprints/editions. You don't know.

What we know is that he was accused of Sacrifice while he was an author.

So, it can safely be said that the texts about sacrifice etc where not added at a later date, or in reprints.

[eternal_spirit]

Yep that's right, Mussolini's fascist illuminati government, kicked him out the Italy, land of the Catholic Christians.. ... because of stories of ritual sacrifices as his lodge... of course for some odd reason they did not arrest him.. let alone convict him... Just gave him lots of bad publicity.

With this story it is quite amusing.. because of a Mass murderer like Mussolini who stood side by side with Hitler for much of WW2, kicked Crowley out of Italy... it just shows how rrrreeeaaally bad Crowley was... lol




http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/confess/chapter1.html


The reason he was in Italy was because he'd been kicked out of other countries, so called allies against Hitler (America etc) he wrote so called anti-semitic propaganda in Germany, in newspapers. EDIT - before the War.

get your thinking cap on you'll need it to follow this lol.

He was a Vic Rothschild double agent for MI5/6.

(Rothschild was a Jew head of MI5/6)

Brothers Rotshchild fermented/helped fund the Bolshevik revolutions which killed Millions of mostly Christians (very satanic/Luciferian/Talmudic) AC may have been connected with this.
This is what agents do play both sides.

Problem reactions solutions and the bankers profit and New Governments are put in place etc etc.

His book of law and channellings in Cairo stated that millions must die and the earth be bathed in blood etc, to usher in the new aeon and the age of Horus. This was no prophecy and may have not been channelled.

It was a NWO/Elite plot/plan of tptb which included Rothschilds.

[eternal_spirit]

quote:thirdwave
He also left to die poor in a cheep bedsit... I guess it must have been his British Freemason buddies sorting him out!...

Okay, maybe he'd served his Masters purpose and was surplus and of no further use to his superiors such as Victor Rothschild, so they dumped him.

He did have a bad heroin addiction, and may have invested money in projects to make money but they failed.

Some may say it was bad karma, or demons.
I'm speculating.

[thirdwave]

Even if you accept the so called allegory in brackets above, this explanation may have been added to his books - either at the time he was being accused of sacrifices, or even later by a third party pro Crowleyite to try cover up the truth.

No one here has the original first print editions of his books, so how would you know what's been added in later reprints/editions. You don't know.

What we know is that he was accused of Sacrifice while he was an author.

So, it can safely be said that the texts about sacrifice etc where not added at a later date, or in reprints.

How do you know no one has the originals??, and since where were their re prints? ..this is where you expose your self.

and the part i sent was not really a very good job at showing the points...

what you dont understand is there is no argument to it HE WAS TALKING ABOUT SEX MAGICK ... FACT .... no guessing.... no covering up, FACT... it is there to be researched and found!... its just if you are as despret as you are to see him as filth, then you wont find it...

No one knows if he DID NOT do it as we don't know him, just as you dont know he did... so even I cant tell you it is a fact that he did not do bad things...

But I can tell you it is a fact that he was into Sex Magick... not child sacrifice... and it speaks volumes that you actually believe that he sacrificed 150 children a year....

you get a though in your head and you don't mind of you lie and deceive to get that view across to others.... I generally believe you would happily lie ..knowing full well you are pushing disinfo in order to have your point noticed...

why cant you open your eyes and admit that he was not really talking about practicing child sacrifice... but you still feel he would have done it..... Why is that not good enough that you have to by pass Facts presented by people who have read many many Crowley books and who know him well??

why?, because you have the mind of a Christian and anyone who points out unfair accusations on someone like Crowley must be a Devil worshipper them sevles...

its fitting that you don't like him... because used to refer you you as Vulgar.

[thirdwave]

Okay, maybe he'd served his Masters purpose and was surplus and of no further use to his superiors such as Victor Rothschild, so they dumped him.

He did have a bad heroin addiction, and may have invested money in projects to make money but they failed.

Some may say it was bad karma, or demons.
I'm speculating.

No shit?

and you have clearly not researched the elite.....

[eternal_spirit]

quote: thirdwave
But I can tell you it is a fact that he was into Sex Magick... not child sacrifice... and it speaks volumes that you actually believe that he sacrificed 150 children a year....

He was into eating shit as well and other bodily fluids.
An it is not a fact that he wasn't into sacrifice, because you don't know. He may have exaggerated the figures to fool people into thinking so many would be impossible.

[eternal_spirit]

quote:thirdwave
why?, because you have the mind of a Christian and anyone who points out unfair accusations on someone like Crowley must be a Devil worshipper them sevles.
Bullshit. I am nothing of the sort.

Just proves how little you know about someone judging them over the net.

[thirdwave]

He was into eating shit as well and other bodily fluids.
An it is not a fact that he wasn't into sacrifice, because you don't know. He may have exaggerated the figures to fool people into thinking so many would be impossible.

ahhh im not getting sucked into your ignorance....

shocking...

I will let you think you have exposed him so you feel more intelligent..

[eternal_spirit]

Let's agree to disagree. It's not an IQ test. :)

[eternal_spirit]

The basics are - Satanic black magic sex magic variety with evil intent rape, these and torture rituals and human sacrifice creates fear and negative emotions which bridges the gap and connects the people participating in rituals to the lower astral/dimensions/frequencies where the reptilians/demonic entities/spirits reside who feed off the negative energies/emotions these rituals create.

Depends on the intent, sometimes it can be to allow possession of the people by reptilians/demons/entities.

Another reason is for the magician to absorb the victims life force or to drink the blood which contains adrenal-chrome which is produced by the adrenal/pituitary glands the more fear and pain created before the moment of death the larger amount of adrenal-chrome is produced, adrenaline is produced in times of fear. These magicians maybe possessed by reptilians/demons hence the need to drink blood and sacrifice etc.

Sex magic and none sacrifice at the point of orgasm the kundalini (aka serpent force) and chakras also create sexual energy (life force what ever name you want to give it) which is absorbed by the magician/Satanist etc, it's basically draining the victims spiritual energies. These methods can also be used at the point of sacrifice/death humans or animals can be used.

They may let the victim live and feed off their energy time and time again, also Satanic ritual Abuse (SRA) is a way to programme mind controlled slave to create Multiple personality Disorder (MPD) aka altars (Which are new personalities as many as they can cram in their if they need to be used to play different rolls/characters/acts - a few would be to be a prostitute/sex slave, or Manchurian candidate assassin)

The MPD's can be triggered via hypnosis cues, hand signals keywords, and sexual abuse, to access which ever personality of the mind controlled slave they want to, for whatever task.

The Victim will have no memory of switching personalities and can be given codes/cues words etc to switch back to their true self/personality of another altar (personality)

Its believed that via some of the higher Freemasonic rituals the Masons become possessed by entities, this maybe where the term Luciferian conciousness fits in, Lucifer sits at the top of the Illuminati Pyramid, and that's also symbolic of the higher degrees.



One ritual described was for the magician to stand inside a circle of children who where to be sacrificed, so the magician could absorb their pure life force at moment of death to regenerate the magician's body.

Sure you've heard of Madame Bathory who was an Elite aristocrat from maybe France? She was said to have sacrificed virgins in attempts to regenerate her ageing body.

[thirdwave]

"Modern morality and manners suppress all natural instincts, keep people ignorant of the facts of nature and make them fighting drunk on bogey tales. ... Knowing nothing and fearing everything, they rant and rave and riot like so many maniacs. The subject does not matter. Any idea which gives them an excuse of getting excited will serve. They look for a victim to chivy, and howl him down, and finally lynch him in a sheer storm of sexual frenzy which they honestly imagine to be moral indignation, patriotic passion or some equally avowable emotion. It may be an innocent Negro, a Jew like Leo Frank, a harmless half-witted German; a Christ-like idealist of the type of Debs, an enthusiastic reformer like Emma Goldman or even a doctor whose views displease the Medial Trust. - A Crowley

[thelonious]

Thirdwave, I respect your dedication to reason. I wonder if there are things to read between the lines that you are missing, though. Maybe there is no evidence, maybe there is. I am not convinced either way. Let me ask you this: If you could know for sure whether he killed human beings and it turned out that it was true, would you be surprised? What does your gut tell you?

Guys, Crowley was just joking, for Chrissakes.

The "sacrifice of a male child" is code for masturbation. It is "human sacrifice" because in Crowley's sex magical work, the semen is used to charge talismans instead of creating babies....therefore, the potential to create a human is "sacrificed".

Crowley's writings are filled with such inside jokes. It was his MO to instruct the initiated while intentionally horrifying uninitated puritans.

It is, however, interesting to note that it would have been actually illegal at the time for Crowley to have written what he meant, as the censors would not have allowed a straightforward book on sex magick to have been published. It is ironic that the censors seem to think that writing about human sacrifice is A-OK....as long as you don't mention sex!!!! ;)

[size_of_light]

Crowley's writings are filled with such inside jokes. It was his MO to instruct the initiated while intentionally horrifying uninitated puritans.


See my previous post. Case closed.

[thelonious]

I didn't partake in the poll, but for me, as a general rule of thumb, if someone says something and there's no outward indication that it should be taken in any other way than in it's literal form, then anyone who later makes the claim that it should be interpreted symbolically or as some sort of code, has a lot of work to do to prove that case.

Fair enough. Here is Crowley's footnote in its entirety:



Yet it should not be forgotten that this, and that other art at which we have dared darkly to hint, are the supreme formulae of Practical Magick.
You are also likely to get into trouble over this chapter unless you truly comprehend its meaning.


There is a traditional saying that whenever an Adept seems to have made a straightforward, comprehensible statement, then is it most certain that He means something entirely different. The Truth is nevertheless clearly set forth in His Words: it is His simplicity that baffles the unworthy. I have chosen the expressions in this Chapter in such a way that it is likely to mislead those magicians who allow selfish interests to cloud their intelligence, but to give useful hints to such as are bound by the proper Oaths to devote their powers to legitimate ends. "...thou hast no right but to do thy will." "It is a lie, this folly against self." The radical error of all uninitiates is that they define "self" as irreconcilably opposed to "not-self."



It should also be noted that masturbatory sex magick is the primary "secret" of the 8th degree O.T.O.. Crowley's "sacrificial male child" alludes to the technique taught to initiates of that degree.

[thirdwave]

Guys, Crowley was just joking, for Chrissakes.

The "sacrifice of a male child" is code for masturbation. It is "human sacrifice" because in Crowley's sex magical work, the semen is used to charge talismans instead of creating babies....therefore, the potential to create a human is "sacrificed".

Crowley's writings are filled with such inside jokes. It was his MO to instruct the initiated while intentionally horrifying uninitated puritans.

It is, however, interesting to note that it would have been actually illegal at the time for Crowley to have written what he meant, as the censors would not have allowed a straightforward book on sex magick to have been published. It is ironic that the censors seem to think that writing about human sacrifice is A-OK....as long as you don't mention sex!!!! ;)

I have tried mate.... lol

[thirdwave]

See my previous post. Case closed.

ok then well what was he saying in these texts?..... if you are to take them littoral...
how would you describe what he is doing and explaining and what is wrong with it..?

[size_of_light]

Thanks for the quote.

I respect the views of those on here who have much greater depth of knowledge about Crowley and his practices, and they may be right when they assert that he actually never did commit murder.

But to come to that conclusion you need to delve deeply into the allegedly esoteric meanings of what he says, and most non-aficionados like myself simply don't want to undertake that grim task.

Since Crowley seemed to want it this way, assessing him on the surface level is the practical response for laymen.

Thirdwave posted a link in reply to my earlier post in which Crowley detailed the appropriate circumstances in which to sacrifice animals for ritual purposes, and that in and of itself makes him a monster in my eyes.

There's nothing at stake for me in being wrong about this goon, and much to gain by making that judgment call and moving on to more savoury issues, and I think that would apply to pretty much all non-adepts - just the way Mr C. himself wanted it.

I am curious though, re: the specific quote you posted: am I alone in seeing that this guy is padding out his writings with meaningless and verbose bullshit just to confuse and mesmerise the easily impressed?

[size_of_light]

ok then well what was he saying in these texts?..... if you are to take them littoral...
how would you describe what he is doing and explaining and what is wrong with it..?

Sorry TW, just missed your post. I hope the above one satisfies the query.

[eternal_spirit]

4. Satanic cat sacrifice is quite common, and can be observed in the Severodonsk Affair as well. But even here the devil has the last laugh over his adherents. There was a famous incident which took place in Alistair Crowley's "accursed abbey" in Sicily. During a black mass the Oxford poet Raul Loveday drank cat's blood and died on the spot. Crowley was soon expelled from Italy: All incantations were in vain. <<

5. This process is taking place all over the world. According to Interpol, more than 100 known ritual murders take place every year in the US, Canada and Western Europe. They range from human sacrifice to heart attacks brought about by invoking the devil. <<

6. It may be comforting to think so. How many deaths by stabbing, strangulation and beating to death are written off to the cliche formula: "society's simply gone mad". But this most banal of diagnoses describes the essence of many crimes.

Strictly speaking, there are no "usual" murders. No murder happens merely according to the scheme "man on man". There's always a third, hidden, presence. So it has been since the crime of Cain. <<
Here's another, earlier occurrence. The Byelorussian satanist Baranovsky liked to sacrifice cats to his favorite idol. After 666 such cat sacrifices, he moved on to human ones(4). He dispatched his victims with multiple stabbing. Now in confinement, Baranovsky continues to openly profess satanism and conduct black masses in prison.

The "Black Legion" leaflet which changed V.'s life forever

Soon V. was initiated into the sect with the rank of witch. Documentary video material, shot in a Minsk basement, recorded the event. Walls of red brick, covered with "666"'s, inverted crosses and goat's heads. Lighted candles. Young people in black masks. They place a peeping kitten on the sacrificial altar in the middle of an inverted pentagram. A knife appears. They pour the unfortunate victim's blood into a cup.

Finally they bring in the girl, naked. She's placed in the center of another inverted pentagram on the floor. On her back they draw an inverted cross in the kitten's blood. They read "Our Father" backwards... In conclusion, they announce that the new sister is dedicated to the spirit of the she-devil Lilith.

"O, Satan," intones the leader. "We've brought you a victim! Send down your spirit to us... Let him announce his presence by blowing out the candle.

One of the candles flickers and goes out. All look at each other in silence.

-Did someone come in?

-Impossible!

-But the candle's gone out!

Odysseus poured the blood of his victims into a pit, and the spirits greedily rushed in in order to receive strength and reveal themselves. Tiresius' ghost got drunk on blood and answered Odysseus...

The same goes for the Cabbalists: They believe that life fluids, escaping from the blood, congeal in a formless mass above a person covered in blood. An experienced Cabbalist can turn him into a warlike, malevolent robot which he can manipulate to his ends. But the silly teenagers lost their nerve. They stood there and looked at each other.

After the murder they would discover a cup, knife with three "sixes" and other ritual objects in V.'s apartment.

Relatives and friends of the girl had seen the objects. They knew that she was obsessed with her computer and would play some sort of violent game for hours on end. But they regarded this all as typical for a modern teenager.

In the meanwhile a frightful orgy of symbols and rituals danced on the black screen in front of her. A virtual black mass. Such services are provided on the Internet by the Temple of Seth(7)...
http://archive.ucimc.org/newswire/display/11660/index.php

[deathcultreject]

I think that people who've come closer to problems like death cults and corruption in magical orders are likely to say 'no' whilst people who have picked up a sense (from somewhere) that bad things go on are likely to blame Crowley.

Bad things do go on, but they need fronts of nieve people or blackmailable people etc. etc. to hide behind.

When you get closer to Crowley's current and people who knew Crowley personaly, then you get a feeling that he was a bad boy, but he wasn't a clinical psychopath. You also get to see more of the real evil creeping around trying to pull the strings around him.

Sometimes these things can be more like 'hot fuzz' than 'eyes wide shut'

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LfBtyma4Y_0

[eternal_spirit]

From the same link

These festivals are always accompanied by death. In the spring and Summer of 1998 nine child corpses turned up in Minsk. As usual, the public found it more comfortable to write them off to 'domestic violence'. Six of these murders, however, were committed on the above-named holidays (two of them on Walpurgis Night, and two on the 8th of March)(11).

Every child done to death by the christophagi of our day is one more attempt to kill the Savior. (No wonder Aleister Crowley wrote that in order to do highest spiritual work (!) one must always select a victim possessed of the highest and purest power. The most suitable object is an innocent and mentally- developed child of the male sex.)

[thelonious]

Thanks for the quote.

I respect the views of those on here who have much greater depth of knowledge about Crowley and his practices, and they may be right when they assert that he actually never did commit murder.

According to his autobiography, he probably killed two Thugees in India, but that could be chalked up to self-defense. In Crowley's Thelemic philosophy, "every man and every woman is a star", i.e., an expression or manifestation of the Godhead. Therefore, murder is of course morally wrong.

But to come to that conclusion you need to delve deeply into the allegedly esoteric meanings of what he says, and most non-aficionados like myself don't want to undertake that grim task.

You're probably correct, but Crowley intentionally wrote for advanced students of the occult, and O.T.O. members in particular. He assumed that the bulk of his readers would understand his esoteric meanings.


Thirdwave posted a link in reply to my earlier post in which Crowley detailed the appropriate circumstances in which to sacrifice animals for ritual purposes, and that in and of itself makes him a monster in my eyes.

In his Commentaries to Liber AL, Crowley notes that all references to "blood" in his magical instructions refer to semen, and all mentions to "sacrifice" refer to sex. He used this to differentiate his own religious philosophy from Christianity, which is based on literal blood atonement.

Crowley did not sacrifice people or animals in the literal sense, nor did he teach students to do so. He did, however, take a macabre glee in shocking his uniniated Victorian readers, whom he considered worthless hypocrites.


I am curious though, re: the specific quote you posted: am I alone in seeing that this guy is padding out his writings with meaningless and verbose bullshit just to confuse and mesmerise the easily impressed?

Personally, I don't think so, at least not fully. There's no doubt that he thought it was funny to shock people, but he also, as a former Buddhist, knew the power of Zen, where the Master deliberately shocks the student into enlightenment by the speaking of an absurd blasphemy.

Regardless, I respect Crowley as a philosopher and Kabalistic scholar; few, if any, explored the occult to the depth that he did, and even fewer wrote so many books about it. On the other hand, he always had emotional problems, and suffered from bi-polar disorder, and was not always a savory character.

My conclusion on Aleister Crowley is that he is probably not a good resource for beginners, but does have important things to say for more advanced students. I wouldn't recommend that anybody use his life as an example for their own, but I don't like to see him demonized either. At heart, he really was an honest seeker of religious truth, and tried to communicate this to others. He himself understood his problems in this regard, and once commented that the only thing that could undermine the Master Therion was the Demon Crowley ("Master Therion" being his magical title as Teacher).

[size_of_light]

My conclusion on Aleister Crowley is that he is probably not a good resource for beginners, but does have important things to say for more advanced students. I wouldn't recommend that anybody use his life as an example for their own, but I don't like to see him demonized either. At heart, he really was an honest seeker of religious truth, and tried to communicate this to others. He himself understood his problems in this regard, and once commented that the only thing that could undermine the Master Therion was the Demon Crowley ("Master Therion" being his magical title as Teacher).

Thanks. Good perspective.

[comawhite015]

Regardless, I respect Crowley as a philosopher and Kabalistic scholar; few, if any, explored the occult to the depth that he did, and even fewer wrote so many books about it. On the other hand, he always had emotional problems, and suffered from bi-polar disorder, and was not always a savory character.

My conclusion on Aleister Crowley is that he is probably not a good resource for beginners, but does have important things to say for more advanced students. I wouldn't recommend that anybody use his life as an example for their own, but I don't like to see him demonized either. At heart, he really was an honest seeker of religious truth, and tried to communicate this to others. He himself understood his problems in this regard, and once commented that the only thing that could undermine the Master Therion was the Demon Crowley ("Master Therion" being his magical title as Teacher).



It is nice to see someone who actually knows what they are talking about in here, Thelonius. Not a copy-paste to be seen! Full marks. You're very eloquent =)

[eternal_spirit]

Imagine an elite group of evil child molesters meeting privately in an undisclosed location. Imagine, too, these wicked sexual predators making plans to conduct grotesque, real-life experiments on innocent little boys and girls. In these experiments, the children will be systematically raped, sodomized, and physically violated. Detailed records will be kept of the children's reactions so that pedophiles worldwide can "enjoy" seeing the results.
http://www.texemarrs.com/images/kinsey1.jpg
Kinsey is shown here visiting satanic High Priest Aleister Crowley's temple at Thelema, in Sicily, with occult porno film maker Kenneth Anger. This photograph was obviously posed to create deeply occult symbols and images.
Satanic Doctor to Conduct Experiment

Next, imagine this elite group deciding that these horrendous sexual experiments are to be supervised by a well known professor, or "doctor," of zoology. The chosen doctor happens to be an admirer of the infamous British satanist, Aleister Crowley (the Beast), and is himself a pedophile and homosexual. He will be given millions of dollars to set up a sexual laboratory and institute at a public university somewhere in Middle America.
http://www.texemarrs.com/081998/cricon.htm

I was in for a surprise when Alex Sanders offered to show me his Wiccan temple. I was visiting the famous magician and self-styled King of the Witches at his cottage in the Old Town at Bexhill-on-Sea, in Sussex, in 1978, to interview him for a national magazine. He was pleasant and amusing and we'd already had a couple of drinks at his favourite nearby pub, The Bell.
‘This is where it all happens,’ he said with a mischievous smile as he opened the door to the temple. Remarkably, I found it was furnished almost completely with Christian items, including statues of Christ and the Virgin Mary.

‘Even some witches have told me it’s blasphemous to practise witchcraft in what looks like a Christian chapel‚’ he said. ‘But for me, Christ represents the Sun God and Mary the Earth Mother. Christianity and witchcraft may seem very different, but underneath they have a lot in common. I didn't deliberately gather all these Christian objects, I might add. It was quite strange. Soon after I moved in here, over a short period various people suddenly started offering them to me. Others were mysteriously left in the garden. It was as if some higher power had decreed that's how my temple should be.’

At the time, Alex, then aged 52, had a partner who was a young male civil servant.
'I love him utterly,’ he maintained. 'He was married to a beautiful girl, but she didn't stand a chance against me. He was dressed as a skinhead when I first met him four years ago, with the regulation shaven head, bovver boots and turned-up jeans. Today, he is a presentable young man. Women give me fulfillment, but I find happiness with men.'

His well known bi-sexuality, it's suggested, may have resulted from an experience as a boy with the infamous occultist and reputed 'Wickedest Man in the World', Aleister Crowley.
Sanders had been initiated as a witch, he claimed, at aged just seven, by his witch grandmother, Mary Bibby, whom he had chanced on standing naked in the kitchen in a circle drawn on the floor.

'She ordered me to strip naked and enter the circle,’ he recalled. ‘She carried out a ritual and then on her instructions, as I bent down with my head between my thighs she nicked my scrotum with a knife and said “You are one of us now.” She later gave me her Book of Shadows to copy into my own and taught me all the rites'.

At ten, she took him to London to meet Aleister Crowley, whom she knew.
'She left me with Crowley for the night and he carried out some of his sex magic with me,’ said Alex. 'It wasn't a very nice experience. To me, as a young boy, he was just a horrible, smelly, old man. Before I left he tattooed his “mark of the beast” on my hand. It's still there. It hardly
turned me off sex though. At one time when I was still in London with my second wife, Maxine, I also had two mistresses and nine male lovers. It's a much quieter life here in Bexhill-on-Sea. My current coven is only five-strong and just one of them is a woman.'

Outrageous and a born showman as he was, Alex Sanders has to be credited with publicising modern witchcraft and, indeed, founding in the 196Os its flourishing Alexandrian branch of Wicca to rival the existing Gardnerian of Gerald Gardner. Although some of his magic was 'grey’, he insisted to me that most of it was 'white’, often aimed at healing people. He told me that
while at Bexhill he had helped a number of drug addicts to get off heavy drugs and cured a woman of cystitis by simply placing his hands on her head and 'willing her illness away'.
He also claimed to have used magic to help women with fertility problems and people just having trouble getting a job.

But with a wicked grin he did admit that on occasion he got rid of people's warts by magically transferring them to somebody else he didn't like. His favourite targets for this, he revealed, were passing traffic wardens! And friends maintained that he had only to whistle the funeral march at someone who had upset him to have them in hospital within the week.

(*Jack Pleasant adds: ‘I came to be fond of Alex Sanders and to consider him an entertaining friend. It pleased him when on occasion, I called on him bearing a bottle of the appalling, to my taste, cheap, sweet, white Spanish wine that he enjoyed. I missed him when he died in 1988, choosing the significant Wiccan date to pass on to the Summerlands of April 3Oth -
Beltane Eve.')

http://www.peacockangel.net/sanders.htm

[eternal_spirit]

Oh please, X OTO members OTO members a Crowley blood line relative and wanna be Thelemites trying to white wash the issue.
He was into sacrificing cats, is bad enough.

The reason he was in Italy was because he'd been kicked out of other countries, so called allies against Hitler (America etc) he wrote so called anti-semitic propaganda in Germany, in newspapers. EDIT - before the War.

get your thinking cap on you'll need it to follow this lol.

He was a Vic Rothschild double agent for MI5/6.

(Rothschild was a Jew head of MI5/6)

Brothers Rotshchild fermented/helped fund the Bolshevik revolutions which killed Millions of mostly Christians (very satanic/Luciferian/Talmudic) AC may have been connected with this.
This is what agents do play both sides.

Problem reactions solutions and the bankers profit and New Governments are put in place etc etc.

His book of law and channellings in Cairo stated that millions must die and the earth be bathed in blood etc, to usher in the new aeon and the age of Horus. This was no prophecy and may have not been channelled. EDIT he believed the prophecies had to happen, culling of the masses (un worhty etc as he called them) eugenicist philosophy IMO.

It was a NWO/Elite plot/plan of tptb which included Rothschilds.

Another form off mass sacrifice.

[thelonious]

ES' post is 100% fiction.

1.The Wiccan leader Alex Sanders did NOT ever claim that he had a sexual relationship with Aleister Crowley, or that he had ever even MET Crowley.

2. Kenneth Anger never created any "pornos". I own the entire Kenneth Anger filmography, not one porno among 'em.

3. Nobody ever killed a cat at the Abbey of Thelema (ES' earlier post). Raoul Loveday died from drinking contaminated water from a well (which Crowley cautioned all Abbeyists against). The cat's blood story was invented by the Fascist police as an excuse to expel the Thelemites from Italy, knowing the superstitious Catholics in Sicily would believe it.

[deathcultreject]

You can read Crowley's writing to mean just about anything, because he enjoyed provoking people who 'just don't get it'

I can sympathise with that, but it gives them ammo.

Anyone who's caught up with the enlightenment of the present day can look through Crowley's writing for subliminal methods and end up thinking . . . 'Ah. He's not doing what it says on the tin.'

As for the book of the law, it's racist and atrocious, and Crowley's own commentary on it promotes the holocaust.

I think it's best not to praise him too much in case some idiot believes you.

[thirdwave]

Thanks for the quote.

I respect the views of those on here who have much greater depth of knowledge about Crowley and his practices, and they may be right when they assert that he actually never did commit murder.

But to come to that conclusion you need to delve deeply into the allegedly esoteric meanings of what he says, and most non-aficionados like myself simply don't want to undertake that grim task.

Since Crowley seemed to want it this way, assessing him on the surface level is the practical response for laymen.

Thirdwave posted a link in reply to my earlier post in which Crowley detailed the appropriate circumstances in which to sacrifice animals for ritual purposes, and that in and of itself makes him a monster in my eyes.

There's nothing at stake for me in being wrong about this goon, and much to gain by making that judgment call and moving on to more savoury issues, and I think that would apply to pretty much all non-adepts - just the way Mr C. himself wanted it.

I am curious though, re: the specific quote you posted: am I alone in seeing that this guy is padding out his writings with meaningless and verbose bullshit just to confuse and mesmerise the easily impressed?

Its fare enough if you don't like to hear some of the grim stuff he goes into... that's everyone's prerogative...

What people are defending here more.... is how he was branded the most wicked man on earth... kicked out of Italy by one of the biggest Fascist and illumanti leaders in Italy.... branded as filth.... all around a time where the crimes of WW2 where kicking off where people like Hitler and Stalin where committing genocide... something that Crowley's earlier works reviled... basically we are saying he was not the person the Mainstream Media and people like ES so desperately and controversially made out.

and it seems any person that can potentially influence alto of people are either killed or have their character assassinated.... and I feel regardless of who these people are they are all worth listening to.

Although I have to say.. regarding the child sacrifice.... Im not so sure about the child part in particular... but they have gone on i history and today.... and he simply knows the research behind them which is why he relieved a bit about what they do... and he also said earlier in the book of how they still went on in his day...

So I don't agree that its sick or evil to simply present the mind set of these people, although its not pleasant.. it is useful... I mean was his words really enough to make people do it? ... anyone that only needs to read that paragraph to do it IMO would have done something fucked up at some point regardless and must have already had a problem.

He was only telling it how it was.

but don't get me wrong... the guy was not a Saint and did have his faults I do not build my personality around his, and maybe he did end up going over the top ..I don't know...... he was known to have an arrogance in his works and was very self indulgent in the way he wrote... because he was very well educated and researched on words and their true meanings and so on... and he knew how un educated most religious people where and hence why he liked to use words and phrases that caused great offence though when understood simply come across as an opinion.... he was inspired by the bible... the OT .. which is what inspired his long drawn out English.

My argument is how many people like ES seem to WANT to see him as the same way as the Media did... and how they refuse to see any knowledge or wisdom in his works...

Even if he was a bad guy.... it still does not change the fact he had good works to read anyway...

And one last thing.... I have heard from many experienced people who read up on people like Crowley are who are into occult stuff.... they all say it took them years to read and really understand Crowley (like you say it looks a big task).... But what is relevant is they also say anyone into this stuff should be made to read for years before they get it anyway... because you need to read lots and lots and not treat it as a casual thing, because Magick is very real and very powerful...

[thirdwave]

As for the book of the law, it's racist and atrocious, and Crowley's own commentary on it promotes the holocaust.

I think it's best not to praise him too much in case some idiot believes you.

I know what you mean, but was that not meant to be a channelled book from a Demon?.. with a message?

[deathcultreject]

ES' post is 100% fiction.

1.The Wiccan leader Alex Sanders did NOT ever claim that he had a sexual relationship with Aleister Crowley, or that he had ever even MET Crowley.

2. Kenneth Anger never created any "pornos". I own the entire Kenneth Anger filmography, not one porno among 'em.

3. Nobody ever killed a cat at the Abbey of Thelema (ES' earlier post). Raoul Loveday died from drinking contaminated water from a well (which Crowley cautioned all Abbeyists against). The cat's blood story was invented by the Fascist police as an excuse to expel the Thelemites from Italy, knowing the superstitious Catholics in Sicily would believe it.

Crowley was too anarchist for the fascists' liking, and too fascist for the anarchists' liking.

You can expect a range of propaganda to be thrown at him.

Personaly I like his anarchist side, but I can't stand all those abusers who make every thing he touches into the spoils of a power struggle.

[thelonious]

You can read Crowley's writing to mean just about anything, because he enjoyed provoking people who 'just don't get it'

I can sympathise with that, but it gives them ammo.

I agree, but he also gave plenty of hints whereby pretty much anybody could decipher his real meaning.


As for the book of the law, it's racist and atrocious, and Crowley's own commentary on it promotes the holocaust.

I disagree. The Book of the Law really doesn't say anything at all about race. As for holocaust, it certainly did predict war. Several years later, World War I broke out, closely followed by World War II. Although Crowley himself interpreted the warrior theme in the Book of the Law spiritually instead of literally.

[eternal_spirit]

Thelonius what about the goat incident? Almost certain I've read the woman involved with that later ended up in a loony bin, committed suicide, same as other women who were involved with AC and his rituals.

A quick search would verify this. I can't be looking at the mo.

Thelonius the Grandsecretary (catholic Mason) made a fool of you on the Hell fire club thread.

You said it had nothing to do with Freemasons.
Then he posted info showing it was everything to do with Masons, something like 6 masons set up the hell fire club.
So, I'll tread with caution while reading your replies.

Not saying everything you say is a lie and on other threads you do talk some sense.

[deathcultreject]

I know what you mean, but was that not meant to be a channelled book from a Demon?.. with a message?

It's the third bit that I particularly don't like, "The unveiling of Ra Hoor Khuit"

It's interesting to note that in ancient Egyptian times, the priesthood of Ra Heract (sound familiar) set up the 'Aten of the day' religious movement, and used it to persecute and destroy as many 'rival' spiritual practices as they could.

I suppose you could call it a demon who manipulated politics and religion.

Or was it meant to have been channeled from Aiwaz?

That's another thing that confuses me. If Aiwaz was meant to be Crowley's Holy Guardian Angel, then why do other Thelemites invoke it?

Haven't they got one of their own ?

[size_of_light]

Thanks Thirdwave. There's so much polarised opinion and disputing of facts around this guy that most people do just make a quick judgment call based on the 'shock/horror' he deliberately tried to evoke in the public mind, and move on. Those of you with deeper knowledge of what he was all about and those who also have strong religious convictions that he was genuinely evil are unfortunately probably destined to arm-wrestle out the finer points of this one forever. :D

[thelonious]

Thelonius what about the goat incident?

The infamous "goat incident" is likewise fictional. Mary Butts, a former student of Crowley's who detested him, was paid to come up with that story for a British tabloid similar to the National Enquirer. This was probably due to the fact that Crowley had earlier referred to her as a "fat red-headed maggot".



Thelonius the Grandsecretary (catholic Mason) made a fool of you on the Hell fire club thread.

You said it had nothing to do with Freemasons.
Then he posted info showing it was everything to do with Masons, something like 6 masons set up the hell fire club.
So, I'll tread with caution while reading your replies.



lol, i have to disagree, and I stand by my comments on that thread. Those people were not Masons, and the "Grandsecretary"'s organization is not Masonic.

[thelonious]

Thanks Thirdwave. There's so much polarised opinion and disputing of facts around this guy that most people do just make a quick judgment call based on the 'shock/horror' he deliberately tried to evoke in the public mind, and move on. Those of you with deeper knowledge of what he was all about and those who also have strong religious convictions that he was genuinely evil are unfortunately probably destined to arm-wrestle out the finer points of this one forever. :D

I think you're probably right.

I'm not even a big fan of Crowley, I just don't like to see anyone misrepresented. I'm much more into the work of Paul Foster Case and Israel Regardie, and recommend those two instead of Crowley.

[deathcultreject]

I disagree. The Book of the Law really doesn't say anything at all about race. As for holocaust, it certainly did predict war. Several years later, World War I broke out, closely followed by World War II. Although Crowley himself interpreted the warrior theme in the Book of the Law spiritually instead of literally.

Crowleys early commentary is hard to find now.

The release of his materials onto the internet has been carried out largely by the Caliphate OTO (a former nest of L Ron Hubbard) who are keen to own the copyrights of his writing.

I've got an early commentary where Crowley calls the Jews "the real parasites of man" and advocates culling humanity of such "useless cattle".

I volunteered in an Oxfam bookshop where we recieved a copy of the suppressed edition.

I'll scan it sometime, and if the Caliphate OTO sue me, I'll send lists of names to the tabloids.

[thelonious]

That's another thing that confuses me. If Aiwaz was meant to be Crowley's Holy Guardian Angel, then why do other Thelemites invoke it?

Haven't they got one of their own ?

Good point. There is disagreement in the Thelemic community over whether Aiwass is Crowley's HGA or something else. Those who believe "something else" generally consider Aiwass a representative of the Third Order or A.'.A.'., which Mathers had claimed to be in contact with.

Another interpretation is that the whole thing was allegorical, and it was the artistic creation of AC. I tend to go in this direction. I do believe that Crowley was in an alternate state of consciousness when he wrote it, but I believe he is very much the author.

I would caution anyone against invoking Aiwass or anything else of unknown substance, be they Thelemite or otherwise.

[eternal_spirit]

ES' post is 100% fiction.

1.The Wiccan leader Alex Sanders did NOT ever claim that he had a sexual relationship with Aleister Crowley, or that he had ever even MET Crowley.

2. Kenneth Anger never created any "pornos". I own the entire Kenneth Anger filmography, not one porno among 'em.

3. Nobody ever killed a cat at the Abbey of Thelema (ES' earlier post). Raoul Loveday died from drinking contaminated water from a well (which Crowley cautioned all Abbeyists against). The cat's blood story was invented by the Fascist police as an excuse to expel the Thelemites from Italy, knowing the superstitious Catholics in Sicily would believe it.

You don't know this your reply is 100% fiction.
The modern day Wiccan's were heavily influenced by AC and other Masons and military. Sanders Coven (in Bexhill) is a a few miles away from were AC spent his last days (Hastings) there are a number of Covens and off shoots from said Covens around the same area Today.

Well maybe Texe Marrs who wrote the article views sex scenes in movies as porn :rolleyes: Didn't anger direct and help make "Rosemary's baby" there's a scene She is raped by some demon.

Yes like the drinking water story is a lie and a cover.

We know AC admits to drinking blood, and other bodily fluids, it's still parts of OTO etc rituals Today. It's also admitted by high ranked OTO etc people


And another reason maybe the Italian's caught on to the fact he was a spy/Mi5/6

[eternal_spirit]

quote size of light

Those of you with deeper knowledge of what he was all about and those who also have strong religious convictions that he was genuinely evil are unfortunately probably destined to arm-wrestle out the finer points of this one forever. :D



You're new here so may not know how the religiously brainwashed Thelemite/Crowleyites, because it is their religion, play this game of lies.

They label me a fundamentalist Christian etc. I am not at all religious.

[thelonious]

Crowleys early commentary is hard to find now.

The release of his materials onto the internet has been carried out largely by the Caliphate OTO (a former nest of L Ron Hubbard) who are keen to own the copyrights of his writing.

I've got an early commentary where Crowley calls the Jews "the real parasites of man" and advocates culling humanity of such "useless cattle".

I volunteered in an Oxfam bookshop where we recieved a copy of the suppressed edition.

I'll scan it sometime, and if the Caliphate OTO sue me, I'll send lists of names to the tabloids.


Crowley did make some racist comments on his own, but in perspective I don't really consider him a racist per se. Most of his racist comments were directed against individuals he pissed off at at the time. For example, he was a close friend of Israel Regardie, but when they became estranged, he made anti-Semitic remarks when writing about Regardie. This didn't effect his affection for other Jewish friends. Indeed, his male lover and magical partner Victor Neuberg was Jewish.

I don't recall Crowley ever referring to Jews as "parasites", but he complained about them at times for various things. His introduction to Sepher Sephiroth is pretty anti-Semitic, but most Crowley scholars consider that to be a joke, lampooning another essay by Sir Richard Burton (whom Crowley quotes).

In "Magick Without Tears", Crowley addresses the question of race, and says that the Law of Thelema recognizes all individuals as gods in the making. And Crowley accepted people from all races as friends and students.

Here is the letter written to a female student in response to her question about race, published in "Magick Without Tears"; Crowley notes that classing people together in such a manner is dangerous, and that only the individual is of any importance:

http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/mwt/mwt_73.html

[deathcultreject]

I think you're probably right.

I'm not even a big fan of Crowley, I just don't like to see anyone misrepresented. I'm much more into the work of Paul Foster Case and Israel Regardie, and recommend those two instead of Crowley.

I think I understand how you feel. He certainly wasn't a serial killer but he was a bit . . . let's just say well informed parents wouldn't want their kids to get into it.

Israel Regardie's cool.

He's done some nice audio stuff like meditations and breathing exercises and guidance through banishing rituals which are still very good for busy people in the present day.

[eternal_spirit]

Speaking of brainwashing.

Hubbard Scientology another friend of AC's. Hubbard's son claims AC heavily influenced his father and like to think of himself were AC left off he took over and referred to him self as the beast.

Wat ya fink about the Kinsey paedophile psychologist connections posted a few pages back?

[thelonious]

The modern day Wiccan's were heavily influenced by AC and other Masons and military.

This is true, although most Wiccans would deny it.

Sanders Coven (in Bexhill) is a a few miles away from were AC spent his last days (Hastings) there are a number of Covens and off shoots from said Covens around the same area Today.

This is also true. But Sanders' account of Wicca is fictional. As you yourself said, Wicca is influenced by Crowley and Masonry...it's not very old, but came AFTER Crowley and Masonry were established. Wicca was invented by Gerald Gardner, using a mixture of Crowleyana, Golden Dawn, Freemasonry, and traditional folklore. Sanders simply built upon what he learned from Gardner. He was never initiated as a "Wiccan" as a child because Wicca did not exist then. And he never claimed to have met Crowley, even though he certainly had studied his books.

Well maybe Texe Marrs who wrote the article views sex scenes in movies as porn :rolleyes:

There are no hardcore sex scenes in Kenneth Anger's films. None of them are rated, but if they were, none of them go further than PG-13.

Didn't anger direct and help make "Rosemary's baby" there's a scene She is raped by some demon.

No, Anger had nothing to do with "Rosemary's Baby". That movie was directed by Roman Polanski, based on the novel by Ira Levin.

Yes like the drinking water story is a lie and a cover.

According to all the eyewitnesses, and the coroner's report, Loveday died from drinking contaminated water. I have no reason to believe the Fascisti, whose entire program was based on lies.

We know AC admits to drinking blood, and other bodily fluids, it's still parts of OTO etc rituals Today. It's also admitted by high ranked OTO etc people

It's not part of actual O.T.O. ritual, although O.T.O. initiates are given written instructions for various magical techniques that they may practice should they so desire. This does indeed involve consuming sexual fluids as a religious eucharist. This practice predates the O.T.O., and was used by several Gnostic sects, from which the O.T.O. claims lineage.

Crowley did not however condone drinking blood, although he did write several essays concerning the use of menstrual blood in ceremonial magick. Most Thelemites do not use this technique, but a group known as the "Typhonian O.T.O." continue to.

[deathcultreject]

Speaking of brainwashing.

Hubbard Scientology another friend of AC's. Hubbard's son claims AC heavily influenced his father and like to think of himself were AC left off he took over and referred to him self as the beast.

Wat ya fink about the Kinsey paedophile psychologist connections posted a few pages back?

Alfred Kinsey represented a lot of paedophiles, including a former SS officer who killed a little girl whom he'd molested, and the mysterious 'Mister Green' who apparently won Kinsey's trust and sympathies. He quite probably destroyed the better part of Alfred Kinsey's sanity in the process.

According to children who were subjects in research which Alfred Kinsey represented, they did not enjoy orgasms (as the 'research' claimed). They experienced convulsions and torture. They also claim that Alfred Kinsey paid their families to experiment on them in this way.

The thing is, Kinsey was intrigued by every kind of sexual deviance, so he would have found Crowley very interesting for 101 reasons. Paedophilia probably wasn't one of them.

Guilt by asosciation wears a bit thin there. Remember that Kinsey was employed by some very powerful governments, and that Crowley and his 'birds of a feather' were vulnerable to getting kicked out of entire countries when they ran out of friends.

[comawhite015]

5. This process is taking place all over the world. According to Interpol, more than 100 known ritual murders take place every year in the US, Canada and Western Europe. They range from human sacrifice to heart attacks brought about by invoking the devil. <<


hahahaha.. How the FUCK do they know?!

I would LOVE to see the coroner's report for THAT.

WHAT a CROCK of SHIT :D

[eternal_spirit]

Quote; thelonius
There are no hardcore sex scenes in Kenneth Anger's films. None of them are rated, but if they were, none of them go further than PG-13.

Fair enough. Unless there's either rumours that Marrs, or someone knows he made other films that are not for mass public consumption, have a feeling I've read something, but cannot be certain. So you wouldn't know this.
He was never initiated as a "Wiccan" as a child because Wicca did not exist then. He said he was initiated by his Grandmother who he referred to as a witch, he never said she initiated him into Wicca.

According to all the eyewitnesses, and the coroner's report, Loveday died from drinking contaminated water. Although if the others were drinking from the same water supply, seems a bit odd they weren't affected.
And he never claimed to have met Crowley, Sanders claimed his Grandmother took him to London when he was a boy and AC has sex with him, maybe he was programmed by AC, and chosen for his role in Wicca. Speculating here.

[deathcultreject]

Good point. There is disagreement in the Thelemic community over whether Aiwass is Crowley's HGA or something else. Those who believe "something else" generally consider Aiwass a representative of the Third Order or A.'.A.'., which Mathers had claimed to be in contact with.

Another interpretation is that the whole thing was allegorical, and it was the artistic creation of AC. I tend to go in this direction. I do believe that Crowley was in an alternate state of consciousness when he wrote it, but I believe he is very much the author.

I would caution anyone against invoking Aiwass or anything else of unknown substance, be they Thelemite or otherwise.

Cheers for that. :)

As for invoking, as in calling entities into yourself; religiously minded people are unlikely to invoke things which they don't regard as divine or pure or of a 'high vibrational frequency' etc. but it's wise to remember that anyone can talk about an entity and claim that it's holy.

Wasn't there a branch of the Stella Matutina who decided that some unknown entities were secret masters and then ended up with 2 of it's members hospitalised with schizophrenia or something like that?

(Post)modern interpretations tend to blur the line a lot, but there's still general agreement that divinites such as gods, saints, orishas, loa, and angels are OK to invoke, but demons are more likely to cause trouble.

I can confirm that.

There are also more neutral entities which don't seem to have the dangers of iether extreme.

[eternal_spirit]

Quote: thelonius
Remember that Kinsey was employed by some very powerful governments, and that Crowley and his 'birds of a feather' were vulnerable to getting kicked out of entire countries when they ran out of friends.AC was a British intelligence agent in with Vic Rothschild and moved in Elite circles at times. This was the main reason he travelled so much.

The bigger picture is trauma mind control via sexual torture and perversion, SRA etc and possession by demons,(alters MPD) is also part of this and Kabbalah. Anyone who's done some research on this will know. I think Kinsey and Ac worked together to create better formulas and enhanced techniques.


Intelligence agents set up Politicians and people in power with rent boys etc, sometimes to blackmail them and influence their policies.
There are articles (I think) about AC's involvement in providing and blackmailing.

[deathcultreject]

AC was a British intelligence agent in with Vic Rothschild and moved in Elite circles at times. This was the main reason he travelled so much.

The bigger picture is trauma mind control via sexual torture and perversion, SRA etc and possession by demons,(alters MPD) is also part of this and Kabbalah. Anyone who's done some research on this will know. I think Kinsey and Ac worked together to create better formulas and enhanced techniques.


Intelligence agents set up Politicians and people in power with rent boys etc, sometimes to blackmail them and influence their policies.
There are articles about AC's involvement with this.

There is no evidence that Crowley was realy an inteligence agent.

MPD alters are not demons.

[eternal_spirit]

hahahaha.. How the FUCK do they know?!

I would LOVE to see the coroner's report for THAT.

WHAT a CROCK of SHIT :D


Extreme fear can cause this. Be it what they see /feel - imaginary or otherwise. Example, seeing as though you don't appear to believe in demons as actual entities. Some one who took hallucinogens or was hypnotised, to see something real scary (Satan etc)

Imagine evoking demons and one appeared.

Maybe there's some truth in the saying "scared to death."

[eternal_spirit]

There is no evidence that Crowley was realy an inteligence agent.
There is plenty.

MPD alters are not demons.

Accoring to Sringmeier and others creating alters, installing demons into the vicitm is part of the process in some instances. That's what I was getting at.

[deathcultreject]

Accoring to Sringmeier and others creating alters, installing demons into the vicitm is part of the process in some instances. That's what I was getting at.

Interesting.

As far as I'm aware, alters can emerge as blanks which are vulnerable and can be easily raped or brainwashed with impunity, because everyone's regarded as insane if they know about it.

I know that's what *my* stalkers are after. I don't know so much about generational cults which practice ritual abuse.

I suppose an alter could be programmed to do all kinds of magic, invoking demons included. I'd never put anything past the kind of psychopaths who stalk multiples.

[thelonious]

.

Fair enough. Unless there's either rumours that Marrs, or someone knows he made other films that are not for mass public consumption, have a feeling I've read something, but cannot be certain. So you wouldn't know this.

Here is Anger's filmography:

Who Has Been Rocking My Dreamboat (1941)
Tinsel Tree (1941-1942)
Prisoner of Mars (1942)
The Nest (1943)
Escape Episode (1944)
Drastic Demise (1945)
Escape Episode (shorter sound version) (1946)
Fireworks (1947)
Puce Moment (1949)
The Love That Whirls (1949)
Maldoror (1951-1952, unfinished)
Eaux d'artifice (1953)
Le Jeune Homme et la Mort (1953)
Inauguration of the Pleasure Dome (1966)
Thelema Abbey (1955)
Histoire d'O (1959-1961)
Scorpio Rising (1963)
Kustom Kar Kommandos (1965)
Invocation Of My Demon Brother (1969)
Lucifer Rising (1970-1980)
Rabbit's Moon (1950-1972)
Senators in Bondage (1976)
Rabbit's Moon shorter 'jump printed' version (1979)
The Man We Want to Hang (1995-2002)
Don't Smoke that Cigarette! (2000)
Anger Sees Red (2004)
Mouse Heaven (2004)
Elliott's Suicide (2004)
Ich Will! (2008)

The extant films are now available in DVD editions.


Sanders claimed his Grandmother took him to London when he was a boy and AC has sex with him

This was my point. Sanders did not claim that his grandmother took him to London to meet Crowley, and never claimed that he had sex with Crowley. This is why you have to be discriminating when you read stuff like that on the Internet....a lot of it just isn't true.

[deathcultreject]

This was my point. Sanders did not claim that his grandmother took him to London to meet Crowley, and never claimed that he had sex with Crowley. This is why you have to be discriminating when you read stuff like that on the Internet....a lot of it just isn't true.

I'd like to add that it can get very disheartening for genuine survivers of abuse to have their stories go in one ear and out the other, and then be replaced by hate propaganda which was simply designed to stick in the public's mind.

[comawhite015]

Extreme fear can cause this. Be it what they see /feel - imaginary or otherwise. Example, seeing as though you don't appear to believe in demons as actual entities. Some one who took hallucinogens or was hypnotised, to see something real scary (Satan etc)

Imagine evoking demons and one appeared.

Maybe there's some truth in the saying "scared to death."

No sweetie, I have no problem with the fact that such entities exist. But what I fail to grok is how the dead person told them that they died cuz they got the willies from an oogy boogy.

It sounds like it got pulled out of someone's ass to sound creepy on a website to me. Where's the reference? There isn't one. It's just some thing someone put on a list that silly people immediately believe cuz they want to.

[thelonious]

Extreme fear can cause this. Be it what they see /feel - imaginary or otherwise. Example, seeing as though you don't appear to believe in demons as actual entities. Some one who took hallucinogens or was hypnotised, to see something real scary (Satan etc)

Imagine evoking demons and one appeared.

Maybe there's some truth in the saying "scared to death."

Evocation is an odd thing. There are almost no modern occultists who believe in the literal existence of "demons" in the traditional sense. It is the general consensus that "demons" represent unresolved complexes or neuroses deep in the subconscious.

They can be personified and evoked, but it takes a lot of skill on the part of the Priest, and a pretty good Seer to actually "see" the evocation. It's not something that a beginner could do.

Hallucinogens, on the hand, could certainly produce terrifying episodes, but they're so unpredictable one could only speculate.

[thirdwave]

I disagree. The Book of the Law really doesn't say anything at all about race. As for holocaust, it certainly did predict war. Several years later, World War I broke out, closely followed by World War II. Although Crowley himself interpreted the warrior theme in the Book of the Law spiritually instead of literally.

and then came the 60s which was also quite interesting with regards to the message...

[thirdwave]

Thanks Thirdwave. There's so much polarised opinion and disputing of facts around this guy that most people do just make a quick judgment call based on the 'shock/horror' he deliberately tried to evoke in the public mind, and move on. Those of you with deeper knowledge of what he was all about and those who also have strong religious convictions that he was genuinely evil are unfortunately probably destined to arm-wrestle out the finer points of this one forever. :D

ahh yeah it will go on and on, and the thing that stirs it up a tad is he was known to be a bit of a bastard at times..... but then again so is my Dad! :)

[deathcultreject]

Evocation is an odd thing. There are almost no modern occultists who believe in the literal existence of "demons" in the traditional sense. It is the general consensus that "demons" represent unresolved complexes or neuroses deep in the subconscious.

They can be personified and evoked, but it takes a lot of skill on the part of the Priest, and a pretty good Seer to actually "see" the evocation. It's not something that a beginner could do.

Hallucinogens, on the hand, could certainly produce terrifying episodes, but they're so unpredictable one could only speculate.

I don't think that they exist the way that they do in Buffy, but there's a question of wether or not and astral entity could survive the death of the person (or people) who seem to have generated it.

Some of the Demonic posessions of antiquity may well have been manipulated MPD incidents carried out by corrupt priests. It's worth noting that a posessed woman who was put in the care of priests would not only be be tortured conventionaly, she could also get impregnated during the posession.

Trained magicians can easily evoke a demon into a triangle even if they're on a large dose of hallucinogens. The bad trips of the 60s were due partly to effects on untrained wimps who'd been brought up under Dr Spock's child care guide lines.

The trick is to make sure you don't laugh so much you fall into the triangle.

The results of that can be bad.

[deathcultreject]

Evocation is an odd thing. There are almost no modern occultists who believe in the literal existence of "demons" in the traditional sense. It is the general consensus that "demons" represent unresolved complexes or neuroses deep in the subconscious.


I'd just like to add that since no one understands the subconscious mind, the subconscious mind explaination merely says;

"We have come to the conclusion that something that we do not understand is in fact something else that we do not understand."

It's a statement which I find absolutely hilarious, but for some, it lends authority on the matter.

[size_of_light]

You're new here so may not know how the religiously brainwashed Thelemite/Crowleyites, because it is their religion, play this game of lies.

They label me a fundamentalist Christian etc. I am not at all religious.

You're right. Apologies there, it was late at night.

Instead of 'strong religious convictions' I should have written 'strong convictions.'

While I'm at it, I think that all of you crazy, lovable assholes on both sides of the fence are great and would recognise and appreciate that in each other too, if only you didn't disagree over Crowley.

That mad motherfucker must be roaring with laughter from the grave because I think he'd enjoy knowing that he still had the power to create such divisions over nothing.

Another reason why I regard him as a malevolent cunt :p

[eternal_spirit]

:D

[thirdwave]

He would be quite smug today... as everything he pointed out regarding our inner desires... perversions, and so on.. Today are exposed to the full just as he said they would be.... everything he said about religion is to be agreed by many today.... this is why over time his works have become more and more potent.... what ever his personality he was a man who knew the score... and those are the books I want to read.

[marpat]

You're new here so may not know how the religiously brainwashed Thelemite/Crowleyites, because it is their religion, play this game of lies.

They label me a fundamentalist Christian etc. I am not at all religious.


Yet you condemn Jews, Muslims and anybody else while defending christians. Spooky that. Maybe it just your christian programming operating from beyond your conscious awareness, or perhaps you have MPD where one of the boxes is a pastor or something

[marpat]

.



Although if the others were drinking from the same water supply, seems a bit odd they weren't affected.
Sanders claimed his Grandmother took him to London when he was a boy and AC has sex with him, maybe he was programmed by AC, and chosen for his role in Wicca. Speculating here.

Like everything you post. Claims and accusations. How many times have you been offered stuff to red to form a more informed opinion but you show no desire to know anything other than your highly biased, perverted opinions.

Why the hate for Crowley anyway? there are many occultists you could point your finger at and accuse them. Was it something to do with the type of ritual you were using when you were dabbling and claimed you were attacked by evil spirits? I think what really happened is that you were dabbling with sex magic anal rituals and it reacted to your subconscious christian programming. The ensuing imbalance making you think you were attacked by spirits.
Speculating here :D

[eternal_spirit]

quote: marpat
Yet you condemn Jews, Muslims and anybody else while defending christians. Spooky that. Maybe it just your christian programming operating from beyond your conscious awareness, or perhaps you have MPD where one of the boxes is a pastor or something
Marpat to bait or not debate that is the question. You're a more likely candidate for demonic possession, or MPD. Because you never tell us about the rituals you done with your fellow OTO members. Could it be your memory has been wiped clean, by your programmer?

Do tell.

You never have a bad word to say about Jews, maybe because you are one. In fact the only one religion you whine about is Christianity, funny that, just like AC.