Ph.D In Physics Opinion on DEW Development

[christophera]

The prevalence of acceptance of Directed Energy Weapons as the cause of two massive towers going to the ground in 10 seconds was hard to believe, when there was no evidence of any military or technology ever developed at a scale needed, let alone the platform to move it to where it might strike the WTC unseen. I've pointed this out a number of times and had proponents use the excuse, "The research has been hidden. We know they are hiding technology." and continue with the wild conjecture. Then, recently, the "mystery" of "Zero Point Energy" was somehow coupled with the Directed Energy Weapon with a similar form of acceptance.

Of course "Zero Point Energy", a concept I've been aware of for 30 years, is not exactly well evidenced either. So when the 2 are seriously presented as a cause for 9-11 at the WTC, I'm astounded that such can gain any support whatsoever.

Dr. Ron Larsen, Ph.D in physics, cornell, and I shared these conclusions about DEW more than a year ago. We considered them just slightly deeper into science and technology than the average science geek would have at tip of their tongue and were amazed that such could see any acceptance at all.

Accordingly, with the new "Zero Point Energy" idea, Dr. Larsen copied me with a comment which I thought very competently countered all of it and I asked him if we could edit it and publish it here. He has agreed.

Ron Larsen’s comments on the current activities of the 9/11 Truth Movement. – January 6, 2009. To be published in Icke Forum by Chris Brown – This draft ok by Ron

The truth movement needs to know that there exists no verifiable evidence that zero-point energy has been harnessed for use as a weapon. That is, there is no hard evidence at all that zero point energy has been weaponized. Shade tree scientists may make claims that it has been weaponized but mere claims do not constitute statements of truth. It’s only after the scientific community has been able to repeatedly reproduce the results in their own laboratories that form the basis of a claim that a claim rises to the level of truth.

Some of us hear claims that the government has suppressed the news that zero point energy has been harnessed for use as a weapon. However, it is important to understand that just because in the past the government has suppressed disclosure of information of scientific developments, this does not constitute proof that it has done so with respect to weaponization of zero-point energy. Folks who make the claim that zero point energy has been weaponized and that the government has suppressed this information need present the hard evidence to support this claim if they expect me to accept their assertion as constituting the truth.

It seems to me that two groups of people populate the 911 Truth Movement. The members of the first group methodically gather evidence, form hypotheses and continue to gather evidence, always reporting on whether or not this evidence supports their hypotheses. All evidence is retained, not discarded because it does not fit the hypotheses. In their research they are guided by the principle that simplest full explanation of any phenomenon is most likely to be the correct one if it accounts for all of the hard evidence and is consistent with all the known laws of physics.

If theory and evidence fail to match completely, the scientific researcher belonging to this group sees this as an opportunity to seek out the reason for this disparity and revise his hypothesis accordingly and then test it against the data. Science takes work and the validity of its claims is dependent on attention to detail and it also takes a willingness on the part of the researchers to integrate what their formal education and practical work experience have taught them with the evidence at hand but to allow their own native intuition serve as a useful guide in constructing hypotheses.

The members of the second group do “gut” science and the only reason they participate in the Truth Movement is to convince the world that 9/11 was staged by the government at least in part to test out new and more horrific weapons systems, the information of which has been suppressed for years and years. They often attempt to prove their cases by means of the reference to authority argument, which goes like this: Famous scientist Sam Quackenbush (a fictitious person) says this is the truth and says government has suppressed this information; or “I was there and I am a doctor and an NSA agent told me in confidence that such and such is what really happened”.

I’ve been a member of the first group, the members of which apply the scientific method to all aspects of their lives, all my life. Consequently, many members of the second group find my insistence on attention to detail and belief in the absolute necessity of applying the scientific method in arriving at explanations for 9/11 not only exasperating but also boring.

I am no longer an active participant in the 9/11 Truth Movement. That’s chiefly because I am convinced that the downing of he WTC buildings as well as the crash at the Pentagon have already been explained to my satisfaction. Specifically, I’m certain that the WTC buildings were bought down using conventional high explosives and that the Pentagon was either hit with a cruise missile or the wall of the building was breeched using high explosives contained within the building.



It’s time for members of the 8/11 Truth Movement to cease asking their favorite question, “What could possibly have brought down the WTC buildings?” We already have the answer to that question. (http://libertycalling.com/cbrowndemomodel.htm). What is needed instead is the pursuit of a legal remedy that would have officials guilty of unlawful acts associated with 9/11 removed from government and brought to justice, charged with complicity in the mass murder of three thousand persons on 9/11.

[dave52]

However, it is important to understand that just because in the past the government has suppressed disclosure of information of scientific developments, this does not constitute proof that it has done so with respect to weaponization of zero-point energy. Folks who make the claim that zero point energy has been weaponized and that the government has suppressed this information need present the hard evidence to support this claim if they expect me to accept their assertion as constituting the truth.

Mmmm kay...

[john white]

Mmmm kay...

Yes Dave, hard as it might be for you to understand, belief is NOT proof of anything other than imagination

The prevalence of acceptance

I'll pull you up there though Christopera: its NOT prevalent: never has been and never will be

All we have on this site is a concentration of the small part of a percentage of 9/11 Truth victims whose objectivity is compromised by their stupidity and inability to reason. What they are good at though is banging their heads against the wall repeatedly, that is to say, not shutting up about their mistakes

[gribz]

Christophera, this is quite hard for me to fully take in, but do you mind of i use this post for the chap on my other forum who is ignorant? He claims he has a phd in physics also, so this could be perfect to shut him up.

[matrix911]

the basic DEW theory is a hard sell for the moment due mostly to the fact there's no official validation such a weapon exists and although I'm a supporter, there does seem to be mounting evidence of that TACTICAL HYDROGEN or NANO NUKES having been utilized in the demolition.
Both of those may have been used in tandem... the dustification is evidence of a DEW, but the pyroclastic explosions are evidence of tactical nukes.

The destructive energy released at Ground Zero was done via fissionless fusion devices, aka tactical military nuclear weapons, which had been placed inside the buildings.

Once you've done an indepth investigation into this "theory", you'll see there's much truth and evidence being discovered that imo will in the near future be the primary theory in understanding the technology of CD that brought down WTC 1 and 2.




The prevalence of acceptance of Directed Energy Weapons as the cause of two massive towers going to the ground in 10 seconds was hard to believe, when there was no evidence of any military or technology ever developed at a scale needed, let alone the platform to move it to where it might strike the WTC unseen. I've pointed this out a number of times and had proponents use the excuse, "The research has been hidden. We know they are hiding technology." and continue with the wild conjecture. Then, recently, the "mystery" of "Zero Point Energy" was somehow coupled with the Directed Energy Weapon with a similar form of acceptance.

Of course "Zero Point Energy", a concept I've been aware of for 30 years, is not exactly well evidenced either. So when the 2 are seriously presented as a cause for 9-11 at the WTC, I'm astounded that such can gain any support whatsoever.

Dr. Ron Larsen, Ph.D in physics, cornell, and I shared these conclusions about DEW more than a year ago. We considered them just slightly deeper into science and technology than the average science geek would have at tip of their tongue and were amazed that such could see any acceptance at all.

Accordingly, with the new "Zero Point Energy" idea, Dr. Larsen copied me with a comment which I thought very competently countered all of it and I asked him if we could edit it and publish it here. He has agreed.

Ron Larsen’s comments on the current activities of the 9/11 Truth Movement. – January 6, 2009. To be published in Icke Forum by Chris Brown – This draft ok by Ron

The truth movement needs to know that there exists no verifiable evidence that zero-point energy has been harnessed for use as a weapon. That is, there is no hard evidence at all that zero point energy has been weaponized. Shade tree scientists may make claims that it has been weaponized but mere claims do not constitute statements of truth. It’s only after the scientific community has been able to repeatedly reproduce the results in their own laboratories that form the basis of a claim that a claim rises to the level of truth.

Some of us hear claims that the government has suppressed the news that zero point energy has been harnessed for use as a weapon. However, it is important to understand that just because in the past the government has suppressed disclosure of information of scientific developments, this does not constitute proof that it has done so with respect to weaponization of zero-point energy. Folks who make the claim that zero point energy has been weaponized and that the government has suppressed this information need present the hard evidence to support this claim if they expect me to accept their assertion as constituting the truth.

It seems to me that two groups of people populate the 911 Truth Movement. The members of the first group methodically gather evidence, form hypotheses and continue to gather evidence, always reporting on whether or not this evidence supports their hypotheses. All evidence is retained, not discarded because it does not fit the hypotheses. In their research they are guided by the principle that simplest full explanation of any phenomenon is most likely to be the correct one if it accounts for all of the hard evidence and is consistent with all the known laws of physics.

If theory and evidence fail to match completely, the scientific researcher belonging to this group sees this as an opportunity to seek out the reason for this disparity and revise his hypothesis accordingly and then test it against the data. Science takes work and the validity of its claims is dependent on attention to detail and it also takes a willingness on the part of the researchers to integrate what their formal education and practical work experience have taught them with the evidence at hand but to allow their own native intuition serve as a useful guide in constructing hypotheses.

The members of the second group do “gut” science and the only reason they participate in the Truth Movement is to convince the world that 9/11 was staged by the government at least in part to test out new and more horrific weapons systems, the information of which has been suppressed for years and years. They often attempt to prove their cases by means of the reference to authority argument, which goes like this: Famous scientist Sam Quackenbush (a fictitious person) says this is the truth and says government has suppressed this information; or “I was there and I am a doctor and an NSA agent told me in confidence that such and such is what really happened”.

I’ve been a member of the first group, the members of which apply the scientific method to all aspects of their lives, all my life. Consequently, many members of the second group find my insistence on attention to detail and belief in the absolute necessity of applying the scientific method in arriving at explanations for 9/11 not only exasperating but also boring.

I am no longer an active participant in the 9/11 Truth Movement. That’s chiefly because I am convinced that the downing of he WTC buildings as well as the crash at the Pentagon have already been explained to my satisfaction. Specifically, I’m certain that the WTC buildings were bought down using conventional high explosives and that the Pentagon was either hit with a cruise missile or the wall of the building was breeched using high explosives contained within the building.



It’s time for members of the 8/11 Truth Movement to cease asking their favorite question, “What could possibly have brought down the WTC buildings?” We already have the answer to that question. (http://libertycalling.com/cbrowndemomodel.htm). What is needed instead is the pursuit of a legal remedy that would have officials guilty of unlawful acts associated with 9/11 removed from government and brought to justice, charged with complicity in the mass murder of three thousand persons on 9/11.

[christophera]

Christophera, this is quite hard for me to fully take in, but do you mind of i use this post for the chap on my other forum who is ignorant? He claims he has a phd in physics also, so this could be perfect to shut him up.

Once it is in this domain it's pretty much for everyones use and Dr. Larsen knows that. Go for it.

[onourwayto2012]

I'm a DEWey beamhugger so I guess I'm stupid and insane. Sure wish we could have a thread with just us irrational idiots and no smart sane people like jw reminding us of our monumental ignorance every other post. Yup being called an idiot really helps ones understanding of the dust, flipped cars melted in such bizzare ways, instantly rusted metal bent in ways that they normally would not.....as well as several other weird effects unique to this event

[nutfinger]

there does seem to be mounting evidence of that TACTICAL HYDROGEN or NANO NUKES having been utilized in the demolition.


Could you provide a link to this evidence?It seems like an interesting theory.

[secondsun]

The prevalence of acceptance of Directed Energy Weapons

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused:

...some people live in a strange world!

[christophera]

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused:

...some people live in a strange world!

I've already posted the basic public knowledge on DEW in another thread. I brought it here and edited a little. I guess I assume people actually have done research on their beliefs when it's just not so. I've actually been interested in it's development for 20 years when the first laser cannon tests were conducted.

DEW technology intended for SDI did not get tested unitil 1988 at white sands with a protype laser cannon. The cannon worked.

DEW was shelved for SDI because targeting at the range needed for attacking missiles was not possible. Angular resolution of devices was not finite enough to create targeting at 3000 miles on a 6 foot diameter target. The needed adjustment is 0.000022 degrees, or close to it. The missile shrapnel bomb has replaced it because it tracks throughout arrival and gets very close or hits.

DEW research has been trying to redesignate the laser cannon as a combat weapon. No platform beyond an F350 ford has been created for ground use in research and experiment for punching holes in armour as of about 6 months ago. A plane has been outfitted with one for targeting research and experiments as of about 4 months ago.

Pulsed laser cannons have a practical beam diameter of about 2 inches at this time from what I've been able to learn. The 1988 laser cannon had a 4" diameter I think and was to be powered by a mini nuke and "lines of force" absorbtion of its magnetic field just as it would have been in orbit if I remember correctly. I think a massive gang of capacitors was used for the test. Other orbital tests with the nuke power source were conducted by the shuttle, which caused the whole "nukes in space" protests.

The public IS the technological source for the government and always has been. Word gets out moreso now than in the beginning of the cold war when when it comes to new technologies. People have less fear of the USSR and more suspicion of the US goverment so secret projects are very hard to keep quite in the private sector without an airtight, long term contract. Also, tech corporations see profits in the technology and so are disinclined to keep secrets these days IF there are public markets for the technology.

[dave52]

I've actually been interested in it's development for 20 years when the first laser cannon tests were conducted.

The problem is Chris, we just don't know what the military has. And anyone who does is subject to secrecy laws... 20 years ago it was made public that a successful laser test had been carried out. I suspect that that information and technology was old then, so how far along are they now...? I don't know, you don't know and neither does your Professor friend...

[christophera]

The problem is Chris, we just don't know what the military has. And anyone who does is subject to secrecy laws... 20 years ago it was made public that a successful laser test had been carried out. I suspect that that information and technology was old then, so how far along are they now...? I don't know, you don't know and neither does your Professor friend...

No, the test 20 years ago was the first one. Believe it or not, my father in law was there. That is why I know.

Have you read the "Gemstone papers"? Read those relating to the raw materials for creating synthetic rubies and then you know how new the basic technology is. It wasn't until 1973 that the US even was able to dominate the worlds supply of the unique clay material, the best in the world for such purposes. Found only in Cambodia.

Can you cite one secrecy law?

[andrewjohnson]

Hey!

It's "WTC Concrete-Corer" Christopher A Brown!!

Hello!

WTC Nukes? Hmmm, well, a few problems there - both with the evidence and the way that some people react when challenged.

http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=167&Itemid=60


Court case? Afffidavits? That's a different story when comparing WTC nukes and the use of some type of DEW whose principles are very likely similar to those on which the Hutchison Effect is based....

"If you can't cover up, then just muddle it up!"

[christophera]

Hey!

It's "WTC Concrete-Corer" Christopher A Brown!!

Hello!

Hello Andrew, it is me, the only 9-11 truthseeker than can use evidence from 9-11 and information from authority (http://web.archive.org/web/20040807085840/http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3069641/) to establish the true design of the towers core (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/southcorestands.gif).

WTC Nukes? Hmmm, well, a few problems there - both with the evidence and the way that some people react when challenged.

http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=167&Itemid=60


Court case? Afffidavits? That's a different story when comparing WTC nukes and the use of some type of DEW whose principles are very likely similar to those on which the Hutchison Effect is based....


Yes, the link you provided had a very valid statment relating to DEW. The amount of energy required is huge, even for the small ones which are known to exist. The original space based SDI weapon used a mini nuke which was detonated and the EMF absorbed. The size weapon needed would need at least 50 to 100 times as much energy to do anything to the towers.

And nukes are simply out of the question as a direct method of creating the demo saw and heard. See and listen to this video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5860825099435530591&q=5860825099435530591&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0).

Nukes cannot be delayed, and in the few seconds the video documents, a hundred o4 so explosions are seen and heard descending. Very clearly showing that the explosions were quite conventional and controlled by standard high speed delay systems which are mundane technologically. Quite simple really. By using the security phone line system in the towers for distribution and a tone generator transmitting a start signal to digital counters triggering delays, very complex and comprehensive delays can be designed.

Of course marvin bush had access to the electrical schematics of the towers.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1215336

[mynameis]

Hello Andrew, it is me, the only 9-11 truthseeker than can use evidence from 9-11 and information from authority (http://web.archive.org/web/20040807085840/http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3069641/) to establish the true design of the towers core (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/southcorestands.gif).



Yes, the link you provided had a very valid statment relating to DEW. The amount of energy required is huge, even for the small ones which are known to exist. The original space based SDI weapon used a mini nuke which was detonated and the EMF absorbed. The size weapon needed would need at least 50 to 100 times as much energy to do anything to the towers.

And nukes are simply out of the question as a direct method of creating the demo saw and heard. See and listen to this video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5860825099435530591&q=5860825099435530591&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0).

Nukes cannot be delayed, and in the few seconds the video documents, a hundred o4 so explosions are seen and heard descending. Very clearly showing that the explosions were quite conventional and controlled by standard high speed delay systems which are mundane technologically. Quite simple really. By using the security phone line system in the towers for distribution and a tone generator transmitting a start signal to digital counters triggering delays, very complex and comprehensive delays can be designed.

Of course marvin bush had access to the electrical schematics of the towers.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1215336

I think nuke would demolition and possibly ignite the canisters of propane gas. I'm not going to mention which type anymore.

[bryan]

WTC Nukes? Hmmm, well, a few problems there - both with the evidence and the way that some people react when challenged.

http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=167&Itemid=60


A Brief Summary: WTC Destruction & High Temperature Aftermath: ONLY Nuclear Bombs and the China Syndrome Fit All the Evidence

NOTE: PLEASE DISSEMINATE THIS DEFINITIVE SUMMARY ON THE NUKING OF THE WTC AS WIDELY AS POSSIBLE!

by The Anonymous Physicist

In attempting to ascertain what caused the destruction of the WTC on 9/11/01, and the great heat and molten metal observed for up to six months afterward, one must account for ALL the phenomena involved in WTC destruction, and the aftermath-- and not just one or two factors. Only nuclear bombs and the resulting China Syndrome can account for ALL phenomena observed. The overview and numerous supporting articles on the nuclear destruction of the WTC are here: wtcdemolition.blogspot.com But, at the outset, we should realize that there is an abundance of evidence that the O.C.T. (Official Conspiracy Theory) is quite bogus. For example, sworn testimony from firemen/responders contains their witnessing of loud explosions from the onset of tower destruction. This alone destroys the OCT of gravity-driven, progressive collapse.

A brief summary of the nuclear aspects now follows.

1. First, low yield nukes (mini-nukes or micro-nukes) are a proven fact that the U.S Govt has admitted to since the 1950’s with their Davey Crocket rifle, and more recently with a physicist’s testimony to Congress. It is also documented fact that since the 1960’s, and Project Plowshare, low radiation nukes-- and later neutron bombs-- have been available, and were planned for excavation projects and such. My “many small nukes” WTC hypothesis indicates that numerous low yield nukes went off INSIDE (near the center of) the towers. They vaporized anything near them (via million degree temperatures and/or high neutron flux), but the yield of these micro-nukes was deliberately small enough not to vaporize the outer structure. This also ensured that any radiation was contained during detonation. And Plowshare, and neutron bombs, prove low radiation nukes have been available for decades.

2. MASSIVE EVIDENCE of ELECTROMAGNETIC PULSES (EMP) FROM NUKES. This includes the eyewitness, sworn testimony of EMT responder, Patricia Ondrovic (and others). She reported that as WTC1 was beginning to be destroyed, she saw flickering lights in WTC6 lobby where she tried to enter, but was stopped. And just outside at that time, cars caught fire without any visible reason, and one then had its car door explode off of it; and the door hit and injured her as she began to flee the area. Exactly how EMP from nukes did all this is explained here, along with other evidence of EMP during tower destruction from nuclear bombs.

3. DUST PARTICLE SIZE WAS LESS THAN 2.5 MICRONS-- & LIED ABOUT by the Gov’t’s main OCT (Official “Collapse” Theory) engineer/author. You can think of a mortar and pestle, and grinding something large into smaller and smaller pieces. It takes more and more energy input to yield smaller and smaller pieces. A nuclear bomb is known to yield particle sizes down to 10 nanometers. (1 nanometer is 1 billionth of a meter). And Govt scientists had equipment to analyze the WTC dust down to 10-nanometer size, if they wanted to, and should have. Unless they did, and have refused to release this. What they (the U.S. Geological Survey scientists) did was lump together all dust sizes less than 2.5 microns and released this data. (A micron is 1 millionth of a meter, and a thousand times larger than 1 nanometer). Nonetheless, the Govt’s main engineer/author, Z.P. Bazant, numerous times wrote papers that claimed that 10 microns was the smallest sized particles created during WTC destruction, and later collected by USGS scientists. For years he did not cite the work that showed, this. Last year he did cite a reference, and it led back to the 2.5 micron study, NOT to the 10 microns he claimed as the smallest dust particle size! So he flat out committed fraud here. He had to do this as his bogus papers claim that the gravitational potential energy (height times weight) of the towers accounted for the energy needed to create the smallest dust particle size. And there isn’t enough energy from his theory to account for 2.5 micron size dust, let alone the much smaller dust sizes that the USGS did not ascertain or release! The bogus physics and math from Bazant and others is here.

4. MELTED, HANGING SKIN WITHOUT FIRE was reported by at least 4 known WTC survivors. This includes WTC worker Felipe David, whose own words state this occurred without fire, but his story when told by another, has “fire” added. There are also two women who reported (on the “Larry King Show”) that a similar thing happened to them, and they don’t know why, because they too were not in any fire. And there is also a security guard with a similar report. The security guard and Felipe David had this happen to them in the lobby and the sub-basement area of WTC1 respectively. Outside the towers, firemen/responders also felt great heat on their skin without being near any fire DURING TOWER DESTRUCTION. Only the thermal rays of a nuclear bomb can account for this. They go out the farthest when a nuke goes off. And hanging skin was a common occurrence in Hiroshima survivors. Note that the outside firemen feeling heat on their skin (without fire near them) also disproves “DEW”, as they are NOT in the towers nor right under them either, and thus if “directed energy beams did it”, and these must be coherent, they would not diverge and cause heat far from their target! So no “DEW” was involved.

5. SUB-BASEMENT LEVEL, 50-TON STEEL PRESS & HEAVY DOOR VAPORIZED. At the same time as Felipe David’s nightmare was unfolding, and also in the sub-basement, WTC engineer Mike Pecoraro reports going up a level and seeing that a sub-basement level was in shambles and was “just gone.” Also he states a 50-ton press has also been apparently vaporized, and a 300 pound steel/concrete door has just been left shriveled up like foil. The only things that could do this are the multi-million degree temperatures, and neutron bombardment, from a nuclear bomb. Coupling this with the four survivors who had melted, hanging skin at this same time, we have evidence of blast, high temperatures, neutron bombardment and thermal rays-- all virtual proof of nuclear bomb use.

6. HEAT GENERATION AT THE WTC FOR UP TO 6 MONTHS AFTER 9/11- -THE CHINA SYNDROME AFTERMATH (CSA) (see http://wtc-chinasyndrome.blogspot.com) No heat “lingers” for weeks and months, not alleged jet fuel, not alleged thermite (which would have been used up either in minutes or hours--or during its use as an explosive). We have the documented, witnessed, and well photographed and videotaped great heat and molten metal for weeks, and indeed for up to six months underground at the WTC-- until all radioactive fission fragments were carted away. No heat lingers for that long; this could only have been heat GENERATION. The evidence of great heat throughout much of the rubble pile and even higher temperatures underneath the two towers and WTC7 is massive. It included melted firemen’s boots, even dogs had to wear special boots, a mass of congealed bullets in WTC6 going off weeks later from heat, and many photos of steam emanation from the continual water hosing of the “hotspots” all around the WTC. The China Syndrome HAD TO ARISE because each of the numerous small nukes used up only 1-6% of its fissile material-- which is standard for nukes. The remainder was then available as radioactive fragments, releasing great heat for a long time (until removed), as the half-life of Uranium 235 is 700 million years. And it is likely that there were numerous, redundant nukes employed, and the phenomena of "fratricided" and fizzled nukes may also have occurred as these are common with nuclear detonations. These effects likely further exacerbated the China Syndrome. The radioactive fragments were somewhat dispersed throughout the rubble pile, and in greatest concentration underneath the towers and WTC7-- where water and sand treatments could not readily be employed. Note that the alleged Tritium finding that the Govt released, may be a red herring to fool people to look for top-secret unknown types of nukes, which couldn’t have led to the CSA, which is what clearly occurred. The ludicrous lying (“there never was any heat during or after WTC destruction”) or the poor attempts to create new laws of chemistry and physics by alleged 9/11truthers (“super nanocomposite thermite burns forever”) only shows how desperate the Govt is to hide the China Syndrome Aftermath.

7. THE MISSING PEOPLE, FURNITURE, steel & other contents of the towers. Destruction of the towers vaporized many of the nearly 3,000 people who died, as well as much furniture, steel and other building contents. The medical examiner was unable to find or utilize any strands of DNA for over 1100 people. The rubble pile from the two towers was only a couple of stories high when it should have been several times higher from a “collapse,” or even a conventional demolition. There is much missing mass from the “extraordinarily high temperatures” as fire engineering Professor Barnett declared after examining vaporized steel, that occurred during tower/WTC7 destruction. Nukes vaporize matter near their hypocenter. Thermite, thermobarics, etc. DO NOT. Contrary to what some claim, neither thermite nor thermobarics could vaporize the missing people, furniture, steel and other contents, as detailed here.

8. CLASSICAL GOV’T DISINFO METHODS ENSUED whereby their agents put out supposedly “alternative theories” involving alleged “secret, new technologies” that are either evidence-free and/or impossible. Space Beams/DEW (Directed Energy Weapons), or ludicrous “super nanocomposite thermite burns forever” theories were created by the intel agencies to cover up the nuking of the WTC, and the China Syndrome Aftermath. (Thermite cools off in minutes or hours.) These “theories” desperately try to claim new phenomena or new laws of physics and chemistry--as does the 9/11 Commission’s ludicrous “findings.”

9. More now on the issue of Radiation: The #1 item above showed that the Govt has had mini-nukes, and micro-nukes for decades, and that low-radiation yielding nukes have also been around for decades as well. On the other hand, the great heat and molten metal at, and under, the WTC for up to six months after 9/11, indicates the existence of the China Syndrome Aftermath at the WTC; whereby many responders and Metro New York residents may have been exposed to some radiation from radioactive fission fragments that resulted from the use of the many micro-nukes. We have much indirect evidence of the effects of radiation poisoning among the 40,000 responders who were at “Ground Zero” in the weeks and months afterwards. There have been hundreds of reported cases of blood, lymph and thyroid cancers among responders. These types of cancers frequently arise from radiation exposure, and are much less likely (unlike lung diseases) to arise from inhalation of toxins. Also, the teeth and hair falling out reported by several responders are also standard illnesses from radiation poisoning. These responders’ doctors and lawyers are not telling these people that radiation may have caused their illnesses, because the China Syndrome Aftermath remains one of the Govt’s most closely guarded secrets. However, we can see that the Govt itself was well aware of what it had caused! Standard radiation-lowering methods were employed beginning the very next morning-- 9/12/01! These included water dilution/hosing down and sand/earth covering (and subsequent removal of this sand/earth) of the rubble pile. These procedures continued for weeks and months precisely because the rubble pile, and undergound areas, were replete with radioactive fission fragments.

There is some general information on radiation sources that needs elucidation. Due to absorption and other factors, radiation levels can go down quickly-- unless radioactive fragments (radionuclides) are released to the environment. Unless one is close (like Felipe David, who appears to have received thermal radiation, and not ionizing radiation)-- or the radiation is very intense-- enough distance/air or most materials, will stop most forms of radiation. This assumes one does not inhale or ingest radioactive particles or radionuclides. The underground WTC areas-- which likely had the highest radiation yields (and also heat)-- were off limits to all but a few responders. Also, as Hiroshima studies indicated, it took decades for many cancers and other illnesses to manifest. Note that a Gov’t agency, FEMA, was/is in charge of any radiation data for Ground Zero, and could easily have blocked release of any data that found radiation. The U.S. Gov’t has a long, sordid record of lying about radiation exposure to soldiers and citizens, as noted here when they nuked their own soldiers during “atomic tests”.

Honest people, not in DENIAL, must see the analogy to the Reichstag fire set by the German Nazis, in 1933, in Berlin. This was their seat of almost their entire federal gov’t. And this fire/destruction was used as an excuse to destroy their Constitution, and as an excuse for War on “terrorists,” and then all of Europe. There was one difference with the Nazis, however. They waited till the middle of the night, when there were no inhabitants in the Reichstag building! Of course, that German Gov’t did not admit they did it themselves, but that came out after they lost WWII. If U.S. Govt agencies have certain types of proof that they nuked the WTC, and thus its largest city; does any honest person think these Govt agencies would ever release this data--unless a new Gov’t came about? There is reason to believe that other crucial data such as WTC rubble pile temperature (AVIRIS, 2nd set), and WTC destruction seismic recordings were altered. This physicist hypothesizes that WTC responders AND nearby Metro New York residents and workers, that were exposed either the longest or to certain areas with the “hottest”spots face the risk of getting cancer and other immune disorders from radiation exposure in the years and decades to come. Sadly this will prove the China Syndrome Aftermath in the worst possible way. Private persons and institutions are urged to get and keep statistics on this, as the Gov’t will likely cover this up.

http://wtcdemolition.blogspot.com
http://wtc-chinasyndrome.blogspot.com

[christophera]

A Brief Summary: WTC Destruction & High Temperature Aftermath: ONLY Nuclear Bombs and the China Syndrome Fit All the Evidence

NOTE: PLEASE DISSEMINATE THIS DEFINITIVE SUMMARY ON THE NUKING OF THE WTC AS WIDELY AS POSSIBLE!


All of the events at the WTC are already feasibly explained here.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

Before any such outrageous and un founded explanations of the technology you propose can be considered, the basic technology has to be shown as existent and capable of performance consistent with the events.

The issue of the well evidenced delay of explosions of floors descending has not been addressed, therefore the proposal has no merit.

Evidence of delays. (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5860825099435530591&q=5860825099435530591&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0)

Another COMPLETELY absent feature from the posted information is HOW the nuke was directed from the top down and also to act in a colum rather than radially as nukes, all explosions do.

[bryan]

All of the events at the WTC are already feasibly explained here.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html


How do you account for the hot spots in the pile burning for about 6 months?

[beldazar]

I'm a DEWey beamhugger so I guess I'm stupid and insane. Sure wish we could have a thread with just us irrational idiots and no smart sane people like jw reminding us of our monumental ignorance every other post. Yup being called an idiot really helps ones understanding of the dust, flipped cars melted in such bizzare ways, instantly rusted metal bent in ways that they normally would not.....as well as several other weird effects unique to this event


me too! blub blub blub blub blub gurgle gurgle dribble

[christophera]

How do you account for the hot spots in the pile burning for about 6 months?

Thermite melted many tons of steel in the 1st sublevel and ground floor. Underground, in concrete, in the very place where is was originally melted, with unactivated thermite activating irreguarly until gone, the thermal potential was very high for a long time. Obviously.

[christophera]

I'm a DEWey beamhugger so I guess I'm stupid and insane. Sure wish we could have a thread with just us irrational idiots and no smart sane people like jw reminding us of our monumental ignorance every other post. Yup being called an idiot really helps ones understanding of the dust, flipped cars melted in such bizzare ways, instantly rusted metal bent in ways that they normally would not.....as well as several other weird effects unique to this event

If one does not have engineering or scientific knowledge, many explanations can be credible until the background is explained as infeasible. No reason to label an idiot unless they cannot conduct searches with the explanations to determine their validity and with specific criticisms of proposed nonsense, then they return with more of the same subjective belief in things totally inconsistent with events and unfounded in technology or science.

Maximum containment can create mass quantities of superfine and heated dust.

When the perimeter wall foundations blew, and core foundations blew, a massive shockwave followed by airblast then sand and gravel would have no problem overturning cars within a couple of humdred feet.

Rust will form on what is termed "grey metal" or "white metal". Something that is created by sandblasting normally. Sand and gravel travelling at 10k per second does a good job of that. Fire hoses were applied immediately, perhaps days before cameras were commonly accessing GZ and all metal cleaned by granular blast waves will rust.

The character of bends fround in steel from GZ is actually fairly consistent with what would be expected. If you refer to that perimeter column tree that is in a "U" shape, a large piece falling straight down while the piece is still standing will cause exactly that bend. Free fall speeds and fixed steel at ground level can cause any number of bend shapes at impact.

[bryan]

Thermite melted many tons of steel in the 1st sublevel and ground floor. Underground, in concrete, in the very place where is was originally melted, with unactivated thermite activating irreguarly until gone, the thermal potential was very high for a long time. Obviously.

That may seem obvious to somebody who's only aim is to justify a predetermined conlusion, but to anybody who wants to know what happened it doesn't seem even remotely possible. In the following demonstration, the thermite burns for about a minute, then after another five minutes it's not even red.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3lnqeodIIUw

You think this stuff could cause pools of molten metal to linger for six months?



. . .such outrageous and un founded explanations. . .

And nukes are simply out of the question. . .

. . .therefore the proposal has no merit.


Seems like we've unearthed another taboo subject. That's an indication it's worth looking into more. ;)


I'm a DEWey beamhugger so I guess I'm stupid and insane. Sure wish we could have a thread with just us irrational idiots and no smart sane people like jw reminding us of our monumental ignorance every other post. Yup being called an idiot really helps ones understanding of the dust, flipped cars melted in such bizzare ways, instantly rusted metal bent in ways that they normally would not.....as well as several other weird effects unique to this event

Nukes cause electro-magnetic pulses and EMP's do funny things to cars. Why is it that 9/11 truth is only offering a choice between thermite and DEW's? If you'd like to see the full range of options, read my earlier post and follow the links. Nukes can account for the damage better than either of the other two.

[christophera]

Thermite melted many tons of steel in the 1st sublevel and ground floor. Underground, in concrete, in the very place where is was originally melted, with unactivated thermite activating irreguarly until gone, the thermal potential was very high for a long time. Obviously.

That may seem obvious to somebody who's only aim is to justify a predetermined conlusion, but to anybody who wants to know what happened it doesn't seem even remotely possible. In the following demonstration, the thermite burns for about a minute, then after another five minutes it's not even red.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3lnqeodIIUw

As if you don't have a "predetermined conclusion", albeit highly flawed because you have the event of a nuclear power plant meltdown confused with a nuclear bombs detonation. Oh, ........ now you'll say there might have been a nuclear powerplant in the basement because NYC has so much electrical drain.

You are taking a rightous position like you should be taken seriously, but it has no substance. It's disgusting bryan. Stop it. You contribute to confusion and disinformation, perhaps without even knowing it because you do it over and over.

For example, in the kindergarten thread you've got the video demonstration interpreted backwards.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyw9uNF4nmE

Then you say this as if you are unable to cognit the facetious aspects of my post.

Are you sure you're in the right thread, Christopher?

Then you say this.

The demonstration is nothing to do with the collapse of the towers! The paper cups are like the nose of the plane, and are squashed by the weight of the log, which is acting like the heavy engines.

Then I answer with EVIDENCE and correct your reversal.

The demonsration applies to both.

Dude, .......... there were pockets of unburned thermite created when explosions in concrete displaced, released, adjacent moved steel structure with thermite layered over them under drywall installed in the 1993 remodel after the bombing. Those continued igniting. Very messy that way.

The thermal gain of that much steel alone can take a month to cool and contain many molten zones inside of it.

[bryan]

As if you don't have a "predetermined conclusion", albeit highly flawed because you have the event of a nuclear power plant meltdown confused with a nuclear bombs detonation. Oh, ........ now you'll say there might have been a nuclear powerplant in the basement because NYC has so much electrical drain.


It's true that William Tahil put forward the theory that there were nuclear reactors under the towers, but the author of the articles I linked to, anonymous physicist, has rejected that theory. If you're familiar with the subject, you should know these facts. You should also know that anonymous physicist's own theory is that the cause of the China syndrome at ground zero was redundant and fizzled nukes, so it's obvious I'm not confusing it with a nuclear plant meltdown.

(The only predetermined conclusion I have is that Bin Laden was as surprised as everybody else that day.)



For example, in the kindergarten thread you've got the video demonstration interpreted backwards.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyw9uNF4nmE

Then you say this as if you are unable to cognit the facetious aspects of my post.


I'm afraid I'm still unable to cognit the facetious aspects of your post, so now we're in a vaguely relevant thread, why don't you explain what you were talking about?



Dude, .......... there were pockets of unburned thermite created when explosions in concrete displaced, released, adjacent moved steel structure with thermite layered over them under drywall installed in the 1993 remodel after the bombing. Those continued igniting. Very messy that way.

The thermal gain of that much steel alone can take a month to cool and contain many molten zones inside of it.

I have some questions about this thermite reaction:

1. Are you saying that thermite can cause pools of molten steel?

2. If each piece of thermite burns and stays red for a maximum of 6 minutes, have you worked out how many pieces of thermite would be needed in order for several pools of molten steel to remain liquid for 6 months?

3. Why did all the pieces of thermite not ignite and burn out at the same time during the first few minutes after the demolition?

4. Why was there so much unburnt thermite left over?



It's disgusting bryan. Stop it.


I'm just sticking up for the Cinderella of the demolition theories. :)

[christophera]

It's true that William Tahil put forward the theory that there were nuclear reactors under the towers, but the author of the articles I linked to, anonymous physicist, has rejected that theory. If you're familiar with the subject, you should know these facts. You should also know that anonymous physicist's own theory is that the cause of the China syndrome at ground zero was redundant and fizzled nukes, so it's obvious I'm not confusing it with a nuclear plant meltdown.


How about a link documenting the performance of a "fizzled nuke", which as far as I can tell you assert was a bomb that did not detonate?

[onourwayto2012]

Hey bryan, I have read several compelling arguments for nukes, one in particular which was great....but still trying to find it, think it was done by some European guy...though not sure. Still think some of the anomalies are not that easily explainable even though chris has given it quite a go.... perhaps a combination of methods..... f*ck I don't knpw....but I do know that there's lots of crazy sh*t in the aftermath.............. that just adds to the absolute insanity of the "OS".

[christophera]

Hey bryan, I have read several compelling arguments for nukes, one in particular which was great....but still trying to find it, think it was done by some European guy...though not sure. Still think some of the anomalies are not that easily explainable even though chris has given it quite a go.... perhaps a combination of methods..... f*ck I don't knpw....but I do know that there's lots of crazy sh*t in the aftermath.............. that just adds to the absolute insanity of the "OS".

I've actually devoted a page to the five, very unusual things relating to the largest event, the towers coming down.

free fall
total pulverization
superfine, heated particulate
smooth, square cut column ends x the 1,000's
heavy steel assemblies heaved hundreds of feet (http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11fivephenomena.html)

Those explanations are ABSOLUTELY feasible from a technical standpoint. The secrecy to do it is what is needed to know or realize. A good start is to give credence to JFK and his words about secrecy.

[bryan]

One's a nuclear explosion,

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=231&pictureid=2036

the other's a pancake collapse!


Hey bryan, I have read several compelling arguments for nukes, one in particular which was great....but still trying to find it, think it was done by some European guy...though not sure.

It was probably the Finnish Military Expert, where the above photo came from.

http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/military.htm

His theory seems a bit dodgy though. I think the anonymous physicist is the most convincing.

http://wtcdemolition.blogspot.com
http://wtc-chinasyndrome.blogspot.com


Chris, I want to look some things up before I reply.

[christophera]

Chris, I want to look some things up before I reply.

Look up what I asked for. Documentation of the performance of a fizzled nuke.

[bryan]

How about a link documenting the performance of a "fizzled nuke", which as far as I can tell you assert was a bomb that did not detonate?

Fizzled nukes detonate but they don't go supercritical. They explode but the yield is nowhere near what it would be with a full reaction. I don't know exactly what you mean by "documenting the performance". Here's a part of a piece from the Asia Times which describes how nukes can fizzle:


With a bomb contaminated with Pu-240, the probability of a fizzle is very large. The US maintains a standard that none of its bomb-grade plutonium will have more than 6% Pu-240.

Presumably North Korea's physicists, not to mention their Russian and Chinese advisers, understand this problem. But whether they applied the skill needed to suppress Pu-240 buildup is another question.

North Korea could avoid the problem of contamination entirely by using uranium as the basic ingredient of its bomb. Much less is known of Pyongyang's purported uranium-enrichment program, but it very unlikely that it progressed to the point of producing sufficient weapons-grade material.

The other problem concerns detonation. Plutonium bombs work on the "implosion" principle. A sub-critical core of plutonium about the size of a softball (30 centimeters in circumference) is surrounded by conventional explosives. The pressure from the explosion squeezes the plutonium into a critical mass, setting off the nuclear explosion.

But the shaped charges must be precisely engineered so that they go off simultaneously. If even one charge explodes prematurely, even by a nanosecond, it may blow the bomb apart, cutting short the chain reaction and reducing the yield.


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/HJ14Dg01.html


The theory is that fizzled nukes could have continued to generate heat in the pile after the demolitions, causing the molten metal, which was there for months. It's the only plausible explanation I've seen. They christened it ground zero even before WTC 7 came down. Here's a bit more about the theory from the Anonymous Physicist:


So if only fission nukes could be made so small, we can see how the redundant emplacement of many of these could have given rise to the China Syndrome, beginning on 9/11. Indeed these small nukes that employ methods to "damp" them down, may be difficult to standardize. That is, a little too much damping, and it stops the chain reaction before any significant yield is attained. Thus I now have a third possible causative factor that may have led to fizzled nukes! E.g., they would have used the lowest yield nukes in the smaller buildings, and possibly many of these same devices were placed in the larger towers-or several larger ones, as I originally wrote. Again, I have asserted, all micro-nukes in WTC7 fizzled in the morning. See http://covertoperations.blogspot.com/2007/09/breakthroughs-toward-attaining-complete.html

And WTC6, with it's nearly perfect spherical hole, looks like JUST ONE mini-, or micro-nuke exploded there. If this one had fizzled, they would have had to do a WTC7 later in the day, for WTC6 also! What I am saying is that they likely tried to have several go off (redundancy), but that spherical hole indicates just one went off, and came close to being too large, if you know what I mean. Many smaller ones- to hide the nuking, was the order of the day- if possible. And these methods, to reduce the minimal critical mass, may make these micro-nukes very sensitive to fizzling. So this hypothesis of how to make a micro-nuke, may be coherent with the rest of my hypotheses, including fizzled nukes in WTC7 and the towers, and the subsequent China Syndrome of high heat generating radioactive fragments, and the three month long hot, large, rubble pile, and the six month long very high heat underneath the towers and WTC7. The latter due to insufficiency of the radiation-lowering methods of sand and water.


http://wtcdemolition.blogspot.com/2008/03/on-existence-of-mini-or-micro-nukes.html

[ringwind]

http://engforum.pravda.ru/showthread.php?t=239753

[bryan]

http://engforum.pravda.ru/showthread.php?t=239753

Thanks for the link.


David E. Worby, JD is a trial lawyer who specializes in personal injury cases.

Worby represents the largest number of clients experiencing Ground Zero illnesses. According to New York Magazine: :"[Worby] is a New York lawyer, who filed the first lawsuit for a leukemia-stricken NYPD detective who served at Ground Zero and the Fresh Kills landfill, a case that mushroomed into a massive class action with 8,000 WTC workers." [1]. By September, 2007, the number of plaintiffs in the case reached 10,000. "I started this suit on behalf of one cop that got sick." He continued, "Nobody would touch the case with a 10 foot pole because it was considered unpatriotic to say anything against the cleanup or the EPA.[2]

Worby faults government officials for individuals' illnesses:

"They are getting sick because of people like Christine Todd Whitman and Rudy Giuliani." "My people don't want their names to be on the wall, because they are not victims of terrorists --they're victims of bad government. Giuliani should be banned from public office for what he did." [3]

Worby's firm has filed suit against the City of New York, the Port Authority and the Environmental Protection Agency. The suits allege that dust from the 9/11 attacks made the plaintiffs sick, and seek billions of dollars in funding for medical screening and treatment and billions more in damages. The majority of the plaintiffs are suffering from asthma, sinusitis, chronic bronchitis. But others have kidney and heart problems. And at least one hundred have cancers, says Worby, including leukemia, Hodgkin's disease, and esophageal and thyroid cancers.

Doctors say that the carcinogens in the WTC dust accelerated cancers that were already under way in some rescue workers, either by promoting further mutations in genes whose cancerous transformations were nearly complete, or by tampering with genes that suppress these deadly mutations. Exposure to the unprecedented combination of carcinogens and immune suppressants in the dust caused shortened latency periods for cancers that would generally take far longer to develop.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Worby



Protecting Yourself From Nuclear Attack

Radioactive iodine is a major constituent used in nuclear power plants as well as in the fallout from nuclear detonation. Carried for hundreds of miles on the winds, if radioactive iodine is taken into the body through breathing or consumption of contaminated food, it is collected and retained by the thyroid gland. There, this concentration of radioactive material results in a variety of life-threatening illnesses including cancers and leukemia.


http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aapotassiumiodide.htm



Mortality Profile from a Pre-defined Sample of Death Certificates of Veterans of United Kingdom Nuclear Weapons Tests

While the ages at death of the eight men who died from Hodgkin's disease ranged from 22 to 59 years, two were aged 39, one 47 and one 49 years at death.


http://www.bntva.com/health/MCS/one.htm



Cancer and Workers Exposed to Ionizing Radiation

Strong evidence has been recorded of a possible connection between esophageal cancer and exposure to ionizing radiation. This evidence is based upon studies of nuclear workers and others exposed to ionizing radiation.


http://www.clarku.edu/mtafund/prodlib/jsi/Radiation_and_Cancer_Risk.pdf (download)