Bohemian Grove... [Archive] - David Icke's Official Forums

jesta_g

07-01-2009, 02:51 PM

Take a look at this and weave your conspiracy theories:

http://video.stv.tv/bc/scotland-events-20080530-edinburghs-beltane-fire-festival-2008/

This one is an annual public event.

lol o0o0o0 i go to beltane every year. it hasnt happened yet this year next is march 22nd i believe. Its such a great event to go to in edinburgh, one which really glows with happy faces and party goers. I dont pay much attention to the "rituals" etc, which is mostly naked people painted in specific colors all doing fire juggling and drumming. I know many of the people involved with the fire breathing and drumming etc, they practise and meet at the meadows alot which is where most people in edinburgh tend to go on a sunny day. These people are really good people, lol especially outside of this festival are mostly regular "hippies" that give us great music to hear while chilling in the meadows, so i wouldnt really put this on the same pedestal as bohemian grove. its pretty safe to say that beltane in edinburgh is just one of the rare events we get in edinburgh where everyone can have a great time/dance/smoke the reefer and meet like minded individuals.

I highly suggest going t it should you ever visit edinburgh during the solstices :)

grandsecretary

07-01-2009, 02:52 PM

This is one of several Japanese Fire Festivals:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd_6bl2xG4M

grandsecretary

07-01-2009, 03:29 PM

The Viking Fire Festival of Up Helly Aah

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=R4yl10f57LA

Bohemia Grove has a Fire Festival, one of many celebrated around the world, to celebrate the Summer and Winter Solstaces.

disconnex

07-01-2009, 03:53 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlkudZaI_Jo

Let me know what you think...

bg is a place for the world elite to play the rest of the world. never trust a politician to begin with, let alone one who acts out ritual sacrifices with world bankers.

eyepod

07-01-2009, 04:15 PM

Just fun and games for the boys down at the Bohemian Grove

http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/FindingAids/dynaweb/calher/bohemian/figures/?M=D

http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/FindingAids/dynaweb/calher/bohemian/figures/I0025309A.jpg

disconnex

07-01-2009, 04:20 PM

darn, i hate when i pick the wrong vowel....

why do world leaders get a kick out of mocking death and sacrifice, don't they have enough real blood on their hands already.

eyepod

07-01-2009, 04:25 PM

If that is a mock sacrafice they've done a pretty good job on faking his hands and it's taking quite a few of them to string him up.

eyepod

07-01-2009, 04:31 PM

http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/FindingAids/dynaweb/calher/bohemian/figures/I0025308A.jpg

aya_rei

07-01-2009, 04:39 PM

Can I just say that I am glad to see a thread in this forum which is not about Masons?

Video is ok, but not sure I like the score. which is of course irrelevant, but thought I'd throw it there.

eyepod

07-01-2009, 04:41 PM

The Beltane festival just isn't in the same league when it comes to the entertainment to be had at the Grove :rolleyes:

http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/FindingAids/dynaweb/calher/bohemian/figures/I0025343A.jpg

disconnex

07-01-2009, 04:48 PM

If that is a mock sacrafice they've done a pretty good job on faking his hands and it's taking quite a few of them to string him up.

wasn't saying that was mock. i was refering to the ceremonies they hold today. they have soldiers, woman, and children dying everyday around the world thanks to their pacts.

grandsecretary

07-01-2009, 08:01 PM

bg is a place for the world elite to play the rest of the world. never trust a politician to begin with, let alone one who acts out ritual sacrifices with world bankers.

If you take the trouble to actually look at the agenda of the Bohemia Grove International Conference you would realise that your posting is crass.

Almost the entire population of England, Scotland and Wales celebrates a ritual sacrifice Fire Festival on the 5th November every year. A heady mixture of tradition, politics, religion and the representation of Human Sacrifice.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/rye-fawkes-bonfire-night-2008-parade/3992074571/?icid=VIDLRVTRV03

You are so obsessed with your theories that you are not thinking rationally here.

Have you read the Conference Agenda? It is available, and even exhibited on the Youtube video.

Please use your brain.

zyphus

08-01-2009, 12:44 AM

Have you read the Conference Agenda? It is available, and even exhibited on the Youtube video.

I could find nothing to do with the Conference Agenda whatsoever. What is this? And any links please?

disconnex

08-01-2009, 06:16 AM

If you take the trouble to actually look at the agenda of the Bohemia Grove International Conference you would realise that your posting is crass.

Almost the entire population of England, Scotland and Wales celebrates a ritual sacrifice Fire Festival on the 5th November every year. A heady mixture of tradition, politics, religion and the representation of Human Sacrifice.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/rye-fawkes-bonfire-night-2008-parade/3992074571/?icid=VIDLRVTRV03

You are so obsessed with your theories that you are not thinking rationally here.

Have you read the Conference Agenda? It is available, and even exhibited on the Youtube video.

Please use your brain.

Please remember, we're talking about years of brainwashing and saying that what is being done is ok. White is black and black is white in these cases. Yes, they put out the conference agenda, but it's not the real agenda.

Just like you've said that you don't plan to change peoples views on freemasonry by posting here, i don't believe to change yours. I do believe that there are hidden agendas to this meeting whether you agree or not.

boots

08-01-2009, 07:57 AM

Please remember, we're talking about years of brainwashing and saying that what is being done is ok. White is black and black is white in these cases. Yes, they put out the conference agenda, but it's not the real agenda.

Just like you've said that you don't plan to change peoples views on freemasonry by posting here, i don't believe to change yours. I do believe that there are hidden agendas to this meeting whether you agree or not.

I reckon for the most part we DO think rationally HERE.

The rich and famous get enough time to lavish away in special resorts and parties.

There are enough think tanks going on around the world to sort out "agenda's"

The point being with Bohemian Grove is that they all stand around, and by their presence worship Moloch. A ancient sacrifice to a evil entity.

Now why would they do that?

.

grandsecretary

08-01-2009, 12:33 PM

I could find nothing to do with the Conference Agenda whatsoever. What is this? And any links please?

You can see a brief picture of it on the Youtube video. It details the topics and the names of some of the contributors. Freeze frame it and you will see that the Bohemia Grove Conference is an International Business Conference.

The finale, on the last evening is a traditional Fire Festival similar to the ones that I have posted links to. Nobody suggests that those who attend the other Fire festivals are devil worshippers because that would include the entire population of England, Wales and Scotland.

"Bonfire, or Bon Fire (good fire) Night" took place for many hundreds of years prior to the Guy Fawkes incident. After the Gunpowder Plot it was transmuted into "Guy Fawkes Night", a public, political, and anti-Catholic statement.

PS: Celtic Fire Festivals and Bohemia (Germanic word Boi-Heim, "home of the Boii", a Celtic people).

grandsecretary

08-01-2009, 02:21 PM

Please remember, we're talking about years of brainwashing and saying that what is being done is ok. White is black and black is white in these cases. Yes, they put out the conference agenda, but it's not the real agenda.

Just like you've said that you don't plan to change peoples views on freemasonry by posting here, i don't believe to change yours. I do believe that there are hidden agendas to this meeting whether you agree or not.

That is your belief. What evidence is your belief based upon? I put it to you that it is suspicion rather than belief.

1) There is a published agenda.
2) Distinguished speakers travel from all over the world to deliver and to hear them, including Presidents of The United States of America.
3) The final evening is a social occasion, celebrated with a traditional Celtic Fire Festival, similar to many hundreds of traditional Celtic Fire Festivals held all over Europe and America.
4) Bohemia Grove is named after the original country of Bohemia which has strong Celtic roots and a tradition of Celtic Fire festivals.

I prefer to look at the evidence before I say what I believe.

disconnex

08-01-2009, 06:24 PM

That is your belief. What evidence is your belief based upon? I put it to you that it is suspicion rather than belief.

I draw my belief based upon what I've seen on bohemian grove. Yes, at first it is suspicion, but the more I came across, the more I came to believe that bohemian grove is not just a yearly playground for the world elite.

Powerful people don't attract eachother just because they are powerful, they have a reason to be there, if not for the mere matter of networking and making business deals.

The problem that I have with it is that it is a good ol boy system. I don't like publicly elected officials hanging out with would be officials, bankers, and business owners, in a private setting making decisions without the publics knowledge. That's how crappy deals get made, they fill the pocket of the "buddy" but litterally "tax" the tax payer.

You can say that it's all "suspect" if you choose. I had an experiences in the army where the m1 abrams tank gets its final drive from a company owned by a former high ranking general. American tax payers pay over $50k for each final drive. The problem is that those final drives break every day. I changed as many as four in one day doing manuevers, you do the math, that's over $200k of taxpayers money flushed away in one day and in one unit.

That is the result of a buddy buddy fluff deal, the people in position get rich off of the tax payers hard work. If you don't believe this happens just look at the bailout. Officials sat around for days working out the details for congress to pass and some of the things they came up with were tax breaks for wood arrow manufactures and other nonsense of the sort.

2) Distinguished speakers travel from all over the world to deliver and to hear them, including Presidents of The United States of America.

What is your idea of distinguished? I saw Nixon there, yeah, a bold faced liar who couldn't even keep his public office because he was impeached for being a piece of crap.

And who else, none other than the wonderful Colin Powell. This man is so distinguished that he went on world wide television and lied about the existance of wmd in iraq so he could passify his little buddy George. How many lives have been lost to date because of that "evidence"?

And seriously, just because someone becomes president does not make them distinguished, it means they have connections that got them to that point to begin with.

I prefer to look at the evidence before I say what I believe.

As do most, the problem I have is that this evidence has been shoved down my throat from day one, I don't buy it. I believe the truth is not what's being told.

supertzar

08-01-2009, 07:04 PM

What about all the buttfucking and cocksucking that goes on there? The gay pornstars that "entertain" the Grovers? How can that not be considered "crass?" These are people with the power to mass murder human beings and the voters who elect them have no idea about what they do. What about Paul Bonacci's diary from the Franklin Nebraska child sex ring days where he describes being forced to commit necrophilia on another boy at Bohemian Grove? Come on.

grandsecretary

08-01-2009, 08:52 PM

Powerful people don't attract each other just because they are powerful.

disconnex,

That is not my experience at all. We must differ on this one.

grandsecretary

08-01-2009, 08:54 PM

What about all the buttfucking and cocksucking that goes on there? The gay pornstars that "entertain" the Grovers?

If this is true then why not repeat what you have alleged using your real name and address rather than crass anonymous allegations.

But you won't.

supertzar

08-01-2009, 08:55 PM

Why should I do that? Why don't you just read The Franklin Coverup and find out yourself? It's not my allegation and it's not crass. It sure looks to be true.

grandsecretary

08-01-2009, 08:56 PM

...

Precisely. Sometimes the loudest noise is silence.

supertzar

08-01-2009, 09:02 PM

Precisely. Sometimes the loudest noise is silence.

Read again.

grandsecretary

08-01-2009, 09:05 PM

Why should I do that? Why don't you just read The Franklin Coverup and find out yourself? It's not my allegation and it's not crass. It sure looks to be true.

Well, you asked a question and I will answer it.

Firstly you made the allegations without attributing its source to something called The Franklin Coverup.

Secondly, even so, simply repeating them is so damaging that it is no defence in law.

Thirdly, if you do not have the guts to repeat them using your own real name and address then you cannot be placed in a position to defend them, as you should be, or be regarded as a reliable source of information.

And finally, repeating such damaging allegations on a public forum puts the forum itself at risk, because IT is liable, as the publisher of damaging allegations.

You asked. That is the answer.

supertzar

08-01-2009, 09:06 PM

Why did Nixon call it "the faggiest god damn place I ever laid eyes on?" Or is Nixon too crass for you to comment on?

keystone

08-01-2009, 09:09 PM

Why should I do that? Why don't you just read The Franklin Coverup and find out yourself? It's not my allegation and it's not crass. It sure looks to be true.Have you read this (http://surrealitytimes.blogspot.com/2006/09/arrest-paul-bonacci.html) which puts an interesting slant on the case in question.

Edit: Particularly the Judges ruling BTW.

grandsecretary

08-01-2009, 09:11 PM

Why did Nixon call it "the faggiest god damn place I ever laid eyes on?" Or is Nixon too crass for you to comment on?

Oh no, I will comment. I do not regard President Nixon as America's most gifted President, and I do not approve of discrimination based upon sexual orientation.

supertzar

08-01-2009, 09:19 PM

Well, you asked a question and I will answer it.

Firstly you made the allegations without attributing its source to something called The Franklin Coverup.

Secondly, even so, simply repeating them is so damaging that it is no defence in law.

Thirdly, if you do not have the guts to repeat them using your own real name and address then you cannot be placed in a position to defend them, as you should be, or be regarded as a reliable source of information.

And finally, repeating such damaging allegations on a public forum puts the forum itself at risk, because IT is liable, as the publisher of damaging allegations.

You asked. That is the answer.

Maybe next time I am in the UK we meet and we'll see who has the guts. How about that, Mr. Courageous? You think I am afraid of being sued or the forum being sued? I don't give a crap about that.

Just read the fucking book by John W. Decamp, former Nebraska State Senator - Republican. It's called The Franklin Coverup. Before you do that watch the Conspiracy of Silence video produced for the Discovery Channel found on youtube. Do you have the guts, literally? Because that shit will turn your stomach.

Am I crass? Maybe, but who gives a fuck? Actually what I am is pissed off that this pompous ass is telling me that "my" allegations are unfounded. One more thing: fuck you.

grandsecretary

08-01-2009, 09:25 PM

Maybe next time I am in the UK we meet and we'll see who has the guts. How about that, Mr. Courageous? You think I am afraid of being sued or the forum being sued? I don't give a crap about that.

Just read the fucking book by John W. Decamp, former Nebraska State Senator - Republican. It's called The Franklin Coverup. Before you do that watch the Conspiracy of Silence video produced for the Discovery Channel found on youtube. Do you have the guts, literally? Because that shit will turn your stomach.

Am I crass? Maybe, but who gives a fuck? Actually what I am is pissed off that this pompous ass is telling me that "my" allegations are unfounded. One more thing: fuck you.

That is very kind of you but no, I don't think you care about anything or anyone, and I doubt that you will be allowed into the UK after your release.

keystone

08-01-2009, 09:26 PM

darketernal

08-01-2009, 09:27 PM

supertzar

08-01-2009, 09:32 PM

supertzar

08-01-2009, 09:37 PM

That is very kind of you but no, I don't think you care about anything or anyone, and I doubt that you will be allowed into the UK after your release.

You sound like a moron. What is wrong with you? You defend this pedophile ritual abuse society. You said yourself you like to look at the evidence before you make your opinions, but you haven't looked at shit. Either that or you are lying and you know what it is all about and are trying to manage perceptions.

supertzar

08-01-2009, 09:40 PM

DeCamp was Bonacci's lawyer in the case where the Judge ruled that Bonacci's evidence was "presumed to be true" soley on the basis that the defendant King offered no evidence not having a lawyer to represent him.

That doesn't matter. Another judge could have thrown it out entirely without hearing it. The only thing that matters is the evidence itself.

grandsecretary

08-01-2009, 09:44 PM

GS why you are so keen on dismissing this thread?

Also next time you use Beltane as an innocent defense for something, try to get a video that doesn't depict a flaming dragon effigy in it... this IS the David Icke forum.

Anyway you have missed the point. Energy is neutral. Its the intent and use of the ritual and the associated energy that determines the outcome, and what is being suggested is that the energy from Bohemian Grove is being used for anything but a positive purpose. However what is positive and negative is subjective of course.

I am not dismissing the thread at all. It is a very valuable thread because I believe that it may be the very first time that Bohemia Grove has been debated and explained without the hyperbole.

Beltane is attended by thousands of people, and it just illustrates:

Firstly, what the ceremony at the finale of Bohemia Grove actually IS.

Secondly, it shows that it is wholly unreasonable to suggest that those who attend traditional Celtic Fire festivals are devil worshippers.

Thirdly, the true purpose for the Bohemia Grove International Business Conference has been stated.

Fourthly, the connection between Bohemia and Celtic tradition has been established.

1) Are you suggesting that it is NOT a Celtic Fire Festival on the Bohemia Grove video?

2) If you listen to the MC of the Festival on the Youtube video, rather than the thoroughly biased commentary, and then compare it with the commentary on the Beltane and Up Hely Aa videos, you will see that they all come from the same root and with the same traditional aims, to celebrate the Summer and Winter Solstices.

This ceremony is replicated each year on the 5th November in England, Scotland and Wales, in virtually every back yard in the land. An effigy of Guido Fawkes is ritually cremated. I have not even mentioned the hundreds of Green Man Festivals. Are you suggesting that WE are all devil worshippers?

Let's discuss the issues here, and not pure hype.

keystone

08-01-2009, 09:45 PM

That doesn't matter. Another judge could have thrown it out entirely without hearing it.Yes of course he could but then where would have DeCamps work been then?

The only thing that matters is the evidence itself.But is Bonacci of sound mind?

supertzar

08-01-2009, 09:50 PM

Yes of course he could but then where would have DeCamps work been then?

But is Bonacci of sound mind?

Decamp's work on the case would have been down the toilet if it had been thrown out, wouldn't it? I don't understand your point.

I don't think anyone would be considered sound of mind after going through what he went through. Are you suggesting he fantasized the whole thing as a kid, details of Bohemian Grove and all?

keystone

08-01-2009, 09:53 PM

Decamp's work on the case would have been down the toilet if it had been thrown out, wouldn't it? I don't understand your point.Exactly my point. He managed to get 70 pages of evidence admitted as "presumed to be true" and then proceeded to make himself famous on it.

I don't think anyone would be considered sound of mind after going through what he went through. Are you suggesting he fantasized the whole thing as a kid, details of Bohemian Grove and all?I am suggesting nothing. I've heard that by his own admission he's fairly well barking. Just makes me question that's all.

supertzar

08-01-2009, 09:58 PM

grandsecretary

08-01-2009, 09:59 PM

If I said Jeffrey Dahmer was discovered to have human body parts in his freezer without citing a source, would that be "no defence in law?" That is stupid. The Franklin Coverup documents a major trial that took place where a child sex ring for the use of US politicians in Washington D.C. was uncovered. The headlines screamed about it in 1989. Look the shit up for yourself before you go running your mouth, secretary. It ties into Bohemian Grove because of Paul Bonacci's diary from that time period, which describes being flown into BG in a helicopter and being forced to take part in a snuff film.

Yes, it would be the perfect defense and one that I would thoroughly recommend because it is true and proven in a court of Law.

The Franklin Coverup is not so proven as has been pointed out to you so eloquently by keystone. That is the essential difference.

darketernal

08-01-2009, 10:01 PM

I am not dismissing the thread at all. It is a very valuable thread because I believe that it may be the very first time that Bohemia Grove has been debated and explained without the hyperbole.

Beltane is attended by thousands of people, and it just illustrates:

Firstly, what the ceremony at the finale of Bohemia Grove actually IS.

Secondly, it shows that it is wholly unreasonable to suggest that those who attend traditional Celtic Fire festivals are devil worshippers.

Thirdly, the true purpose for the Bohemia Grove International Business Conference has been stated.

Fourthly, the connection between Bohemia and Celtic tradition has been established.

1) Are you suggesting that it is NOT a Celtic Fire Festival on the Bohemia Grove video?

2) If you listen to the MC of the Festival on the Youtube video, rather than the thoroughly biased commentary, and then compare it with the commentary on the Beltane and Up Hely Aa videos, you will see that they all come from the same root and with the same traditional aims, to celebrate the Summer and Winter Solstices.

This ceremony is replicated each year on the 5th November in England, Scotland and Wales, in virtually every back yard in the land. An effigy of Guido Fawkes is ritually cremated. I have not even mentioned the hundreds of Green Man Festivals. Are you suggesting that WE are all devil worshippers?

Let's discuss the issues here, and not pure hype.

The devil worshipper thing is a straw man argument. Christianity and Luciferianism are two sides of the same coin. The Christians on this forum are a small but very vocal minority. I don't differentiate between a Christian or a Satanist becuase the two are connected.. granted if you were a member of the Temple of Set you might argue that true Satanism far predates Christianity... but this is another argument completely.

I would strongly suggest that the druidic traditions, like so many other practices were long ago hyjacked by the inner circle. This tradition has dated back to before writtin history. Every time there is a spiritual awakening or knowledge among he common man, that knowledge is stolen, and the traditions molded to suit the agenda of those who have done the hyjacking, and their masters.

I would suggest Gnosticism underwent this immediately and gave rise to what we call Christianity which is a bastardization of the religion of Osiris, and follows an ongoing chain of a watered down version of the mystery schools being presented to the common man as "spiritual and religious truth".

Druidism is much the same. All of those involved in the ritual in your video may be doing it in fun, and without ill intent, but those directing the energies in control of the ritual might be focusing it in another direction.

The ritual at Bohemian Grove is a use of this same ritual and energy, for a purpose that suits an agenda. I've attended a number of rituals in the US attended by everyone from High Druids, to Scottish Rite Freemasons, to US Senators, Christian Ministers, and other public figures that were anything but positive, in my youth.

It is not knowledge and energy that is positive or negative, but how you go about it, and how you use it, that determines the result. You of all people should know this GS.

keystone

08-01-2009, 10:03 PM

What I am saying is that the judge saying "presumed to be true" means nothing. You have your own mind, do you not? You can look at the data yourself and come to your own conclusion without making insinuations based an embarrassed-sounding statement by a judge.But just now you said that if the judge hadn't "presumed to be true" that the lot would have been thrown out and DeCamp's work "would have been down the toilet". :confused:

That's laughable you are implying that Paul Bonacci ever sought (or got) fame.Errm - no I didn't and I'm not.

grandsecretary

08-01-2009, 10:08 PM

The devil worshipper thing is a straw man argument. Christianity and Luciferianism are two sides of the same coin. The Christians on this forum are a small but very vocal minority. I don't differentiate between a Christian or a Satanist becuase the two are connected.. granted if you were a member of the Temple of Set you might argue that true Satanism far predates Christianity... but this is another argument completely.

I would strongly suggest that the druidic traditions, like so many other practices were long ago hyjacked by the inner circle. This tradition has dated back to before writtin history. Every time there is a spiritual awakening or knowledge among he common man, that knowledge is stolen, and the traditions molded to suit the agenda of those who have done the hyjacking, and their masters.

I would suggest Gnosticism underwent this immediately and gave rise to what we call Christianity which is a bastardization of the religion of Osiris, and follows an ongoing chain of a watered down version of the mystery schools being presented to the common man as "spiritual and religious truth".

Druidism is much the same. All of those involved in the ritual in your video may be doing it in fun, and without ill intent, but those directing the energies in control of the ritual might be focusing it in another direction.

The ritual at Bohemian Grove is a use of this same ritual and energy, for a purpose that suits an agenda. I've attended a number of rituals in the US attended by everyone from High Druids, to Scottish Rite Freemasons, to US Senators, Christian Ministers, and other public figures that were anything but positive, in my youth.

It is not knowledge and energy that is positive or negative, but how you go about it, and how you use it, that determines the result. You of all people should know this GS.

Thank you for this very clear explanation of your beliefs. I do not attend such ceremonies, especially Guy Fawkes Fire festivals.

Have we, at least, established that the Bohemia Grove meetings are International Business Conferences ending in a traditional Celtic Fire festival? Once we have established what Bohemia Grove IS, then we can discuss the merits and demerits of taking part in such Festivals, IMHO a different issue.

supertzar

08-01-2009, 10:09 PM

The Franklin Coverup is not so proven as has been pointed out to you. That is the essential difference.

I would like to hear you say that to one of the kids or to John Decamp. I have pointed out the materials necessary to know what I am talking about. Open your eyes to it or remain intellectually crippled. It's your choice, secretary.

supertzar

08-01-2009, 10:16 PM

But just now you said that if the judge hadn't "presumed to be true" that the lot would have been thrown out and DeCamp's work "would have been down the toilet". :confused:

Errm - no I didn't and I'm not.

Oh boy. I didn't say what you said I did. Read it again carefully. A judge can throw something out if he wants. Many legitimate cases are treated this way. Are you aware of this? What I am saying is that what the judge rules has no bearing on the actual truth of the matter.

Anyway, if the judge stated "presumed to be true," that would probably be in reference to there being no defense. It does not necessarily imply anything about the quality of the evidence, which is the only thing that matters in terms of what is actually true.

supertzar

08-01-2009, 10:21 PM

darketernal

08-01-2009, 10:22 PM

Thank you for this very clear explanation of your beliefs. I do not attend such ceremonies, especially Guy Fawkes Fire festivals.

Have we, at least, established that the Bohemia Grove meetings are International Business Conferences ending in a traditional Celtic Fire festival? Once we have established what Bohemia Grove IS, then we can discuss the merits and demerits of taking part in such Festivals, IMHO a different issue.

I would agree that it is an International Business AND Political Conference, that does have a traditional duidic fire festival theme, however I do not agree that this is the only thing going on there. There is sex magic in practice at this festival as well as human sacrifice. We can agree to disagree on the later points. This is not, after all, a courtroom. This is a discussion.

Were my concerns one of liable on my part, I would already have problems because I have named in a stickie here the name of a public figure and said to have seen him shift into a reptilian being. Should he decide to sue, I'll be more than happy to deal with that situation should it arise. I don't see it as a likely scenario.

In any event, let us continue this talk. What is your next point?

strt

08-01-2009, 10:30 PM

keystone

08-01-2009, 10:35 PM

You:He managed to get 70 pages of evidence admitted as "presumed to be true" and then proceeded to make himself famous on it.

Me: That's laughable you are implying that Paul Bonacci ever sought (or got) fame.

You: Errm - no I didn't and I'm not.

Me: :(

I meant DeCamp who got the 70 pages admitted!!!!! :(:(

I think I'm going to leave this thread for a while. You're too wound up from butting heads with GS. :D

supertzar

08-01-2009, 10:38 PM

Okay, it's difficult to understand one another sometimes in this format. You understand what I am saying about the "presumed to be true" statement though?

eyepod

08-01-2009, 11:09 PM

Have we, at least, established that the Bohemia Grove meetings are International Business Conferences ending in a traditional Celtic Fire festival? Once we have established what Bohemia Grove IS, then we can discuss the merits and demerits of taking part in such Festivals, IMHO a different issue.

I don't think "we" have established this at all.

To suggest that what goes on these meetings is merely an innocent business conference with a Celtic fire festival thrown in is just an attempt to brush it all under the carpet.

If anything the rituals are Sumerian / Babylonian in origin. The picures I posted previously are pretty graphic in demonstrating that these rituals are considerably more than a Guy Fawkes made out of stuffed ladies pantyhose made by kids and burnt on a bonfire.

Once again it's the same old NWO goons that are practising these rituals...

In any case, Dull Care is "a mocking spirit" that needs to be banished from the Grove. This is an ancient tradition going back to the Sumerians. The Sumerians used the word 'barra' (begone) to banish unwelcome spirits from the land. These traditions were spread to Babylon, Greece, and Rome. After the Middle-Ages poets and play writers occasionally picked up on it and incorporated it in some of the works they wrote. The term was used quite frequently since at least the late 17th century in Britain as the poems in the left column show. The first reference since Horace that I was able to find was the 1687 play 'Begone, Dull Care' of [John] Playford: Musical Companion, located in England. The emigrating poets and writers took the term to the United States and many of them ended up in San Francisco.

It could well be that the term Dull Care was already in use at the time of the Francis Bacon group in the late 1500s and early 1600s, which consisted of Sir William and Robert Cecil, John Dee, his student Edward de Vere, Edmund Spenser, Bacon himself, Elizabeth I, James I, and several others. Why am I interested in them? These people were (largely) responsible for the creation of Rosicrucianism, Freemasonry, and Enochian Magic. The de Vere family allegedly was involved in the practice of Royal Witchcraft (2) and his family considered themselves members of the Archdruid-Dragon race. Bacchanalian practices were well known within this group and the Bohemian Club's primary motto, "Weaving Spiders, Come Not Here," also originated from them.No wonder you're so defensive about the Bohemian Grove.

keystone

08-01-2009, 11:12 PM

Okay, it's difficult to understand one another sometimes in this format. You understand what I am saying about the "presumed to be true" statement though?Yes indeed.

grandsecretary

08-01-2009, 11:43 PM

I am somewhat confused here. Do you suggest, as a man of significant biography and experience, that printed agenda has anything to do with events that happen behind closed doors? It is printed so it must be truth is not an argument I would expect to hear from you. There is not even slightest possibility that there might be any event that is not listed on that paper? Never mind any witnesses, they are not listed as valid guests there? Never mind recorded video, there is no mention of event being recorded.

I am expecting that everybody behaves and argues according to his/her position.

I organise private Masonic, you would say secret meetings all of the time, and the agenda is strictly adhered to I can assure you. Otherwise it would be chaos, a nightmare.

You see this is the crux of the matter. You seem to go through life suspecting motives and mistrusting just about everyone.

I trust everyone, but expect the unexpected. I suspect that I sleep better than you do.

grandsecretary

08-01-2009, 11:47 PM

I don't think "we" have established this at all.

To suggest that what goes on these meetings is merely an innocent business conference with a Celtic fire festival thrown in is just an attempt to brush it all under the carpet.

If anything the rituals are Sumerian / Babylonian in origin. The picures I posted previously are pretty graphic in demonstrating that these rituals are considerably more than a Guy Fawkes made out of stuffed ladies pantyhose made by kids and burnt on a bonfire.

Once again it's the same old NWO goons that are practising these rituals...

No wonder you're so defensive about the Bohemian Grove.

I want to make it quite clear that I am not defending Bohemia Grove at all. On the other hand I do not, as a matter of simple human kindness, vilify people without due and proven cause.

I believe in the Anglo-Saxon principle of innocent until PROVEN guilty, and am prepared to defend it to the death. That is what I am defending, and that means I oppose the reverse, guilt by innuendo, or guilt by association.

supertzar

08-01-2009, 11:59 PM

grandsecretary

09-01-2009, 12:08 AM

Bullshit. Paul Bonacci won a million dollars in court in the Franklin case and the description of Bohemian Grove in his diary was part of the evidence. You won't even look at the evidence at all will you?

Yes, I will read the book, when I have time, and I will take into account the substantially lower burden of proof in a civil action. My present opinion is based upon what I know, not what I have read in one book.

darketernal

09-01-2009, 01:19 AM

I want to make it quite clear that I am not defending Bohemia Grove at all. On the other hand I do not, as a matter of simple human kindness, vilify people without due and proven cause.

I believe in the Anglo-Saxon principle of innocent until PROVEN guilty, and am prepared to defend it to the death. That is what I am defending, and that means I oppose the reverse, guilt by innuendo, or guilt by association.

Ah but when the highest offices in the government conducting the trials, establishing the laws, controling the intel, and even with their hands in the media outlets are held by people who are biased, what chance does one have of presenting their proof? When there is no oversight by the people, because important things are done in private... the common man is left to trust only that others are doing what is truely in their best interest. From what I have seen in my life, what is done for "the greater good" and in "the best interest" of humanity is very far from what the majority think is moral or just.

However, those of my family lines have always held themselves as having a "higher set of morals" and the ability to make sacrifices to save the whole, in their genetics. Such arrogance. How many in the chain of priests and kings truely, until they met their end, truely understood the god(s) they served? I would say very few indeed.

Humanity needs no gods, or rulers. It needs to be set free, to develop into its full potential.

disconnex

09-01-2009, 05:59 AM

disconnex

09-01-2009, 07:55 AM

Quoted from a web site...

What activities take place at the grove? The grove is the site of a two week retreat every July (as well as other smaller get-togethers throughout the year). At these retreats, the members commune with nature in a truly original way. They drink heavily from morning through the night, bask in their freedom to urinate on the redwoods, and perform pagan rituals (including the "Cremation of Care", in which the members wearing red-hooded robes, cremate a coffin effigy of "Dull Care" at the base of a 40 foot owl altar). Some (20%) engage in homosexual activity (but few of them support gay rights or AIDS research). They watch (and participate in) plays and comedy shows in which women are portrayed by male actors. Although women are not allowed in the Grove, members often leave at night to enjoy the company of the many prostitutes who come from around the world for this event. Is any of this hard to believe? Employees of the Grove have said that no verbal description can accurately portray the bizarre behavior of the Grove's inhabitants.

Besides this type of merriment. the annual gathering serves as an informational clearing house for the elite. The most powerful men in the country do their "networking" here, despite the Grove's motto "weaving spiders come not here" (don't do business in the Grove). At these gatherings men representing the government, military-industrial, and financial sectors meet and make major policy decisions. The Manhattan project, which produced the first atomic bombs, was conceived at the Grove in 1942. Other decisions made at the Grove include who our presidential candidates will be. There are speeches, known as "Lakeside Talks", wherein high-ranking officials disseminate information which is not available to the public-at-large.

What's not right about this? When powerful people work together, they become even more powerful. The Grove membership is wealthy, and becoming more so, while the middle class is steadily becoming poorer. This close-knit group determines whether prices rise or fall (by their control of the banking system, money supply, and markets), and they make money whichever way markets fluctuate. They determine what our rights are and which laws have effect, by appointing judges. They decide who our highest officials shall be by consensus among themselves, and then selling candidates to us via the media which they own. Important issues and facts are omitted from discussion in the press, or slanted to suit their goals, but they are discussed frankly at the Grove. Is there true democracy when so much power is concentrated in so few hands? Is there any real difference between the public and private sectors when cabinet members come from the boardrooms of large corporations? Is the spending of billions on weapons, which are by consensus no longer needed, really the will of the people? Or is it the will of General Electric, General Dynamics, and the other weapons contractors represented at the Grove?

this is the stuff that effects the every day people of the world, not the rich. They get rich while we work our asses off to make them richer.

strt

09-01-2009, 09:17 AM

Another important video, Alex Jones was not on the official guest list:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-82095917705734983

grandsecretary

09-01-2009, 12:13 PM

Ah but when the highest offices in the government conducting the trials, establishing the laws, controling the intel, and even with their hands in the media outlets are held by people who are biased, what chance does one have of presenting their proof? When there is no oversight by the people, because important things are done in private... the common man is left to trust only that others are doing what is truely in their best interest. From what I have seen in my life, what is done for "the greater good" and in "the best interest" of humanity is very far from what the majority think is moral or just.

However, those of my family lines have always held themselves as having a "higher set of morals" and the ability to make sacrifices to save the whole, in their genetics. Such arrogance. How many in the chain of priests and kings truely, until they met their end, truely understood the god(s) they served? I would say very few indeed.

Humanity needs no gods, or rulers. It needs to be set free, to develop into its full potential.

This is an agenda of despair and surrender.

"The common man can't do anything about anything". Absolute poppycock. Tony Blair is a common man who got off his backside and became Prime Minister, as is Gordon Brown, whose father was a simple Church Minister.

Margaret Thatcher was born over the top of a tiny corner grocery store in Lincolnshire. Due to her intelligence, education and sheer hard work she became one of the most powerful politicians of her age, a close confidant of Ronald Reagan, a film actor. Together they were responsible for changing the face of world democracy, by supporting Gorbachev, and his policy of Perestroika, which resulted in the fall of the Berlin wall.

I do not accept your premise for a single second.

grandsecretary

09-01-2009, 12:20 PM

Another important video, Alex Jones was not on the official guest list:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-82095917705734983

This is exactly the same nonsense as the Youtube video. In fact it is the same secret filming, probably on a mobile phone surrounded by Alex Jones's "opinion", for that is all it is.

I loved the intro with its carefully selected cutaways and sinister music: Drama darling!

strt

09-01-2009, 12:25 PM

Tony Blair is a common man who got off his backside and became Prime Minister, as is Gordon Brown, whose father was a simple Church Minister. Margaret Thatcher was born over the top of a tiny corner grocery store in Lincolnshire. Due to her intelligence, education and sheer hard work she became one of the most powerful politicians of her age, a close confidant of Ronald Reagan, a film actor.

"Et la marmotte, elle met le chocolat dans le papier d'alu."

This expression has become idiomatic in French, sometimes preceded by a skeptical "Mais bien sûr!" (But of course!)

"Et la marmotte, elle met le chocolat dans le papier d'alu."

Transcript in English :
- And the marmot, it puts the chocolate in the aluminium foil

As seen [here] (http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=V0pN1PpfIag)...

grandsecretary

09-01-2009, 12:28 PM

Quoted from a web site...

this is the stuff that effects the every day people of the world, not the rich. They get rich while we work our asses off to make them richer.

There is only one way to get rich and that is to own the business.

I started a business by borrowing $100 from my mother, the fee to register the company. I then mortgaged my house for working capital, and nearly lost it, several times in the first two years, because the bank wanted its money back.

Because I owned the company, the profits that were made when the company became solvent came to me. That is how it works.

Five years later I sold the company and retired on the proceeds.

Nobody owes you a living. You have to work for it, and risk everything in the process.

boots

09-01-2009, 02:03 PM

grandsecretary

09-01-2009, 02:22 PM

So thats one story :rolleyes:

When you get into politics, you dont get into it with your own ideas, because they are soon squashed to fit the agenda of the party system. Simple truth. You sell out.

A LOT of the people that attend Bohemian Grove have there wealth handed down to them by the family.

.

And if you had any idea about business, and wealth, you would know that you do not retain wealth by doing nothing, because the wealthier you are, the longer the queue of people is, lining up to take it away from you. Stand still and you lose it. Attending International Networking Conferences, such as Bohemia Grove, is part of this not standing still, and is a perfectly legal and legitimate exercise.

As far as politics is concerned, this is cynical nonsense. I have also been involved in national and international party politics. There is enormous scope for implimenting what one believes in, even when it does not conform to party policy. I have seen too many instances of this to believe otherwise. Take a look at Margaret Thatcher's Monetary Policy. Completely at variance with her predecessor, Edward Heath. I worked with both of them and saw the changes close up and personal.

Stop being a cynic, and look at the evidence before you take up such fixed and unsustainable positions. You will benefit from this change in attitude.

disconnex

09-01-2009, 04:35 PM

There is only one way to get rich and that is to own the business.

I started a business by borrowing $100 from my mother, the fee to register the company. I then mortgaged my house for working capital, and nearly lost it, several times in the first two years, because the bank wanted its money back.

Because I owned the company, the profits that were made when the company became solvent came to me. That is how it works.

Five years later I sold the company and retired on the proceeds.

Nobody owes you a living. You have to work for it, and risk everything in the process.

The last thing i need is a lesson in work ethic on here. I know how to make money, I've worked my whole life. I have no quabbles with what I have. You seem to miss my point. It is not right to have an elitist group made up of high ranking govt. officials, and super rich business owners. There is too much opportunity to make deals outside of the public realm.

We just had a fiasco with the bailout money. That type of deal goes down every year with people in BG. Now, not to that magnitude, but nonetheless, business men get breaks in politics due to their connections in this elite group. It then makes the democratic system for the rich and powerful only, not for the people, by the people.

These people have direct access to make decisions that affect them directly. If it happens to work for you, then good, but the original concern to them is selfishness. When you have publicly ellected officials making political decisions for their own personal reasons, this is unjust.

grandsecretary

09-01-2009, 05:24 PM

When you have publicly ellected officials making political decisions for their own personal reasons, this is unjust.

I am sure that SOME publicly elected officials make political decisions for their own personal reasons, but not all of them. Business men aso make decisions for their own personal reasons, but not all of them, all of the time.

But, to suggest that all politicians and all businessmen make all decisions, all of the time, always for personal gain is also not acceptable, this is unjust.

For instance, just one, Bill & Melinda Gates have set up a trust fund to assist young people in the the third world, to enhance healthcare and reduce poverty. They have contributed $40 Billion to the fund from their personal fortune, and so far $10 Billion has been spent. They did not need to do this.

disconnex

09-01-2009, 05:40 PM

But, to suggest that all politicians and all businessmen make all decisions, all of the time, always for personal gain is also not acceptable, this is unjust.

I never said that all politicians and business men make personal decisions all of the time. I said the ones who attend bohemian grove do, with a 15-20 year waiting list and a $25,000 initiation fee, I am sure that not every politician and business owner are part of this elite group.

grandsecretary

09-01-2009, 05:56 PM

Double response due to technical problem with my PC. My apologies. Deleted .

grandsecretary

09-01-2009, 06:05 PM

I never said that all politicians and business men make personal decisions all of the time. I said the ones who attend bohemian grove do, with a 15-20 year waiting list and a $25,000 initiation fee, I am sure that not every politician and business owner are part of this elite group.

The Middlesex Cricket Club has a 20 year waiting list, as has the Carlton Gentleman's Club. My local Golf Club is 14 years. They are popular as well.

Do those on the Bohemia Grove waiting list have to put their devil worship and corrupt decisions on hold until they join?

The joining fee proves one thing, and that is that not only rich people can afford to be members. $25,000 is not that much. $25,000 is only just about a mid-range motor car. A decent car is double that nowadays.

You seem to be against anything that you cannot, or will not join, on principle, and call it "elite", using the word as an invective. Presumably you would allow everyone to belong to everything, whether they qualify or not and giving nothing in return?

You seem to be against the institutions of government, finance and commerce, politicians, bankers, businessmen.

I can only recommend a very deep cave somewhere because you cannot do it all on your own. You have to trust some people, some of the time or you will go through life in a state of paranoia. Not healthy.

disconnex

09-01-2009, 06:38 PM

The Middlesex Cricket Club has a 20 year waiting list, as has the Carlton Gentleman's Club. My local Golf Club is 14 years. They are popular as well.

What does a freakin cricket club have to do with bohemian grove? Did they put nuclear weopons into play there, do they perform ritual sacrifces, are they connected to the rockefeller, ford, bush, and clinton families? And when was the last time that cricket club was accused of group fornication and sexual abuse.

Do those on the Bohemia Grove waiting list have to put their devil worship and corrupt decisions on hold until they join?

No, but once they join they have a hell of alot of backing for future decisions.

The joining fee proves one thing, and that is that not only rich people can afford to be members. $25,000 is not that much. $25,000 is only just about a mid-range motor car. A decent car is double that nowadays.

Great, collect the funds, get on the waiting list, and then go to it in july 20 years from now. It might change your life, on top of that, you can add it to your list of memberships.

You seem to be against anything that you cannot, or will not join, on principle, and call it "elite", using the word as an invective. Presumably you would allow everyone to belong to everything, whether they qualify or not and giving nothing in return?

No, not at all. I am against things working against the democratic process. Though not illegal, special interest groups are not allowed in the final decision making process. With groups like bohemian grove, decisions are already decided upon before the idea even hits the table in the face of public representatives, seperating the people from the govt.

You seem to be against the institutions of government, finance and commerce, politicians, bankers, businessmen.

Your assumptions of me are wrong again. I am for a just and democratic representation of the citizen. I am however against corruption, and the super rich getting richer off of the struggles of the middle class. Just look at the oil companies. Even though the price of gas went up, here in baltimore it was over $4.00 a gallon, the oil companies still turned their highest profits in years while the average working class could barely afford to get to work everyday.

I can only recommend a very deep cave somewhere because you cannot do it all on your own. You have to trust some people, some of the time or you will go through life in a state of paranoia. Not healthy.

Did the cops in England start carrying guns yet? I don't know where you come from but trust is the first thing that gets you screwed where I live. Paranoia, no, not the answer, but to throw caution to the wind and believe that I live in a world where everything will work itself out is ludacris. That's the approach that has gotten us where we are today.

I trust those who question what's been fed to them, and look at things under a different light. Trusting those who believe the surface will only keep me behind bars. I don't want to live in a cave, the world is already just that, a big dark cave. It's only by questioning what's in front of you will you be able to shed some light on the situation.

grandsecretary

09-01-2009, 07:15 PM

What does a freakin cricket club have to do with bohemian grove? Did they put nuclear weopons into play there, do they perform ritual sacrifces, are they connected to the rockefeller, ford, bush, and clinton families? And when was the last time that cricket club was accused of group fornication and sexual abuse.

No, but once they join they have a hell of alot of backing for future decisions.

Great, collect the funds, get on the waiting list, and then go to it in july 20 years from now. It might change your life, on top of that, you can add it to your list of memberships.

No, not at all. I am against things working against the democratic process. Though not illegal, special interest groups are not allowed in the final decision making process. With groups like bohemian grove, decisions are already decided upon before the idea even hits the table in the face of public representatives, seperating the people from the govt.

Your assumptions of me are wrong again. I am for a just and democratic representation of the citizen. I am however against corruption, and the super rich getting richer off of the struggles of the middle class. Just look at the oil companies. Even though the price of gas went up, here in baltimore it was over $4.00 a gallon, the oil companies still turned their highest profits in years while the average working class could barely afford to get to work everyday.

Did the cops in England start carrying guns yet? I don't know where you come from but trust is the first thing that gets you screwed where I live. Paranoia, no, not the answer, but to throw caution to the wind and believe that I live in a world where everything will work itself out is ludacris. That's the approach that has gotten us where we are today.

I trust those who question what's been fed to them, and look at things under a different light. Trusting those who believe the surface will only keep me behind bars. I don't want to live in a cave, the world is already just that, a big dark cave. It's only by questioning what's in front of you will you be able to shed some light on the situation.

Then run for Congress and /or the Senate and convince enough people that Bohemia Grove is what you allege, even though you have not one scintilla of proof, and then pass a bill banning it under penalty of criminal prosecution. That is democracy.

What you want is dictatorship, with you making all of the decisions, by-passing the democratic processes which allow private clubs to exist so long as they do NOT break the law.

Now two questions:

Can you refer me to any action taken against Bohemia Grove for ANY alleged illegal or criminal activity?

Can you please name one single member of Bohemia Grove who has been arrested, charged, prosecuted and found guilty of any one of the crimes that you have alleged due to his membership of Bohemia Grove?

If not, you owe them a democratic apology.

The British Police Service does not carry firearms as a matter of course, except under certain circumstances. For instance, Armed response Units; Members of the Diplomatic Protection Service; and Anti-terrorist Units, for instance at airports. I would not dream of commenting on your arrangements in the United States of America. You are the best judge.

barney_rubble

09-01-2009, 07:25 PM

I am sure that SOME publicly elected officials make political decisions for their own personal reasons, but not all of them. Business men aso make decisions for their own personal reasons, but not all of them, all of the time.

But, to suggest that all politicians and all businessmen make all decisions, all of the time, always for personal gain is also not acceptable, this is unjust.

For instance, just one, Bill & Melinda Gates have set up a trust fund to assist young people in the the third world, to enhance healthcare and reduce poverty. They have contributed $40 Billion to the fund from their personal fortune, and so far $10 Billion has been spent. They did not need to do this.

A cynic would say tax avoidance

disconnex

09-01-2009, 07:30 PM

What you want is dictatorship, with you making all of the decisions, by-passing the democractic processes which allow private clubs to exist so long as they do NOT break the law.

How is that a dictatorship? Have private clubs, make a cricket club, golf club, stamp collecting club, taint smelling club, I don't care. The moment that they break the law they become a criminal organization. Show me where a mason doesn't say that the kkk wasn't a colourist organization when pike was around so that doesn't make pike a member of a colourist organization. Alot of groups start out with a simple cause and become criminal, take that point of view to northern ireland.

Now two questions:

Can you refer me to any action taken against Bohemia Grove for ANY alleged illegal or criminal activity?

Can you please name one single member of Bohemia Grove who has been arrested, charged, prosecuted and found guilty of any one of the crimes that you have alleged due to his membership of Bohemia Grove?

No, I will not. Fill me in on all of your esoteric traditions and all the masonic secrets you hold so dear. Untill then, you can navigate your way to a search bar.

If not, you owe them a democratic apology.

I don't owe anyone a democratic pile of crap. Nor do I feel anyone owes me.

grandsecretary

09-01-2009, 08:32 PM

A cynic would say tax avoidance

Yes, a cynic would, but there are no cynics here are there? :rolleyes:

grandsecretary

09-01-2009, 08:33 PM

How is that a dictatorship? Have private clubs, make a cricket club, golf club, stamp collecting club, taint smelling club, I don't care. The moment that they break the law they become a criminal organization. Show me where a mason doesn't say that the kkk wasn't a colourist organization when pike was around so that doesn't make pike a member of a colourist organization. Alot of groups start out with a simple cause and become criminal, take that point of view to northern ireland.

No, I will not. Fill me in on all of your esoteric traditions and all the masonic secrets you hold so dear. Untill then, you can navigate your way to a search bar.

I don't owe anyone a democratic pile of crap. Nor do I feel anyone owes me.

This is the most revealing response since I joined this forum. I need not comment any further other than to draw attention to my previous response:

Two questions:

Can you refer me to any action taken against Bohemia Grove for ANY alleged illegal or criminal activity?

Can you please name one single member of Bohemia Grove who has been arrested, charged, prosecuted and found guilty of any one of the crimes that you have alleged due to his membership of Bohemia Grove?

If not, you owe them a democratic apology.

supertzar

09-01-2009, 09:02 PM

http://www.real-debt-elimination.com/child_protection/bohemian_grove_a_hell_fire_in_a_forest.htm
"John DeCamp's book, The Franklin Cover-Up, includes Paul Bonacci's testimony about a snuff film of a child being murdered on July 26, 1984 in California in 'an area that had big trees.' At a meeting in Santa Rosa, DeCamp told a group that he had edited out Bonacci's references to an enormous, moss-covered owl and men in hooded red robes because he did not know then about the owl at the Grove and thought it 'too far fetched for people to believe.' In the fall of 1992, Paul Bonacci was shown a black and white photo of the moss-covered owl at the Grove and quickly identified it as the site of the July 1984 snuff film described in DeCamp's book. Although this testimony has been available to law enforcement officials since mid-October 1992, no official investigation has been made." [3]

Some people get away with murder.

supertzar

09-01-2009, 09:13 PM

Here is a more relevant statement by the judge than the "presumed to be true" quote.

U.S. government mind control programs, like MK-Ultra and Monarch, directed against helpless victims--human guinea pigs--have been virtually ignored by the Big Media Cartel. On Feb. 27, 1999, however, U.S. District Court Judge Warren Urbom found former Franklin S&L manager Lawrence E. King guilty of numerous crimes committed against mind control victim Paul A. Bonacci.

King, serving a 15-year sentence for his role in the theft of $40 million from Franklin, an Omaha, Neb., credit union, was ordered by Judge Urbom to pay Bonacci $800,000 in compensatory damages and an additional $200,000 in punitive damages.

This legal judgement against a notorious perpetrator of satanic-ritual child abuse is unprecedented. In the Memorandum of Decision, Judge Urbom wrote, "King continually subjected the plaintiff [Bonacci] to repeated sexual assaults, false imprisonment, infliction of extreme emotional distress, organized and directed satanic rituals, forced the plaintiff to 'scavenge' for children to be a part of the defendant King's sexual abuse and pornography ring, forced the plaintiff to engage in numerous sexual contacts with the defendant King and others and participate in deviate sexual games and masochistic orgies with other minor children.

"He [Bonacci] has suffered burns, broken fingers, beatings of the head and face and other indignities by the wrongful actions of the defendant King," the judge declared. "In addition to the misery of going through the experiences just related over a period of eight years [1980-1988], the plaintiff has suffered the lingering results to the present time. "He [Bonacci] is a victim of multiple personality disorder, involving as many as 14 distinct personalities aside from his primary personality," wrote the judge.

"He has given up a desired military career and received threats on his life. He suffers from sleeplessness, has bad dreams, has difficulty holding a job, is fearful that others are following him, fears getting killed, has depressing flashbacks, and is verbally violent on occasion, all in connection with the multiple personality disorder and caused by the wrongful activities of the defendant King."

supertzar

09-01-2009, 09:25 PM

Remember that Paul Bonacci testified that he had been taken to Bohemian Grove to be used to perpetrate abuse and be abused in a snuff film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggxiBWv4xYE

soulja

09-01-2009, 10:51 PM

The Rusty Nelson-Kelly Ford Report By Ted L. Gunderson, FBI Senior Special Agent in Charge (Ret.)
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/rustynelsonkellyfordreport28jun00.shtml

grandsecretary

09-01-2009, 11:00 PM

http://www.real-debt-elimination.com/child_protection/bohemian_grove_a_hell_fire_in_a_forest.htm

Some people get away with murder.

NOT ACCEPTABLE. If there was even a shred of evidence then the police would have THOROUGHLY investigated it.

If you truly believe this, and you are an American citizen, then if this is not the case, it is YOUR fault, and nobody elses.

Do something about it! It is YOUR responsibility.

grandsecretary

09-01-2009, 11:03 PM

Remember that Paul Bonacci testified that he had been taken to Bohemian Grove to be used to perpetrate abuse and be abused in a snuff film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggxiBWv4xYE

Then stop moaning here. Use your energies to do something about it. One TV station is all you would have to call. That story would be worth millions if it were even half true. Investigative journalists would have a field day. I suspect they have already looked at it, decided that it is nonsense and binned it.

lightgiver

09-01-2009, 11:04 PM

NOT ACCEPTABLE. If there was even a shred of evidence then the police would have THOROUGHLY investigated it.

If you truly believe this, and you are an American citizen, then if this is not the case, it is YOUR fault, and nobody elses.

Do something about it! It is YOUR responsibility.

Well if you could get into BG,this would help in arresting the criminals.

but how can you prosecute the un prosecutable??

Shred of evidence? what is burning a sacrifice in front of a concrete owl?maybe the police chiefs were dressed up like the klu klux clan.how much evidence do you need?

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2074/deesbohemianjq4.jpg (http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=deesbohemianjq4.jpg)

supertzar

09-01-2009, 11:14 PM

supertzar

09-01-2009, 11:17 PM

Then stop moaning here. Use your energies to do something about it. One TV station is all you would have to call. That story would be worth millions if it were even half true. Investigative journalists would have a field day. I suspect they have already looked at it, decided that it is nonsense and binned it.

Hey, dipshit. Did you watch the video? It was supposed to air and was scheduled in the TV Guide and everything, but members of Congress pressured the Discovery Channel not to show it or face devastating consequences to the whole industry.

grandsecretary

09-01-2009, 11:38 PM

Shred of evidence? what is burning a sacrifice in front of a concrete owl?

EXACT response to your question.

http://video.stv.tv/bc/scotland-even...festival-2008/

A traditional Celtic Fire Festival. Nothing more, nothing less, and this is probably what was pointed out to The Discovery Channel.

lightgiver

10-01-2009, 01:15 AM

EXACT response to your question.

http://video.stv.tv/bc/scotland-even...festival-2008/

A traditional Celtic Fire Festival. Nothing more, nothing less, and this is probably what was pointed out to The Discovery Channel.

Sorry i thought the thread said Bohemian grove,and your reply can easily be misconstrued because of similar connotations of your reply related to the whole bohemian grove affair.

I mean if i was carrying out such rituals in my garden i do not think my communal neighbours would be impressed,do you.

and i am sure it would not be long before i would get a visit from a officer of the law and the local psychiatric doctor.

but the elites can just do what they want.

grandsecretary

10-01-2009, 03:10 AM

Sorry i thought the thread said Bohemian grove,and your reply can easily be misconstrued because of similar connotations of your reply related to the whole bohemian grove affair.

I mean if i was carrying out such rituals in my garden i do not think my communal neighbours would be impressed,do you.

and i am sure it would not be long before i would get a visit from a officer of the law and the local psychiatric doctor.

but the elites can just do what they want.

These Celtic Fire Festivals happily take place in several American Cities and Towns, without the intervention of officers of the law or local psychiatric doctors.

As I posted earlier, in England, Scotland and Wales, on the 5th November, virtually every back garden hosts a Fire Festival where the effigy of Guy Fawkes is cremated. This went on before the Gunpowder Plot but the Festival was taken over as a political and religious anti-Catholic statement.

Many country towns have Green Man Festivals for the same reason, to celebrate the Summer and Winter Solstices.

boots

10-01-2009, 03:17 AM

These Celtic Fire Festivals happily take place in several American Cities and Towns, without the intervention of officers of the law or local psychiatric doctors.

As I posted earlier, in England, Scotland and Wales, on the 5th November, virtually every back garden hosts a Fire Festival where the effigy of Guy Fawkes is cremated. This went on before the Gunpowder Plot but the Festival was taken over as a political and religious anti-Catholic statement.

Many country towns have Green Man Festivals for the same reason, to celebrate the Summer and Winter Solstices.

So they all stand in front of a owl statue in the likeness of Moloch doing a sacrifice of a human with blood curdling screams. Dresses in black and red robes.

Moloch being the ancient deity of the devil.

Get your facts straight.

disconnex

10-01-2009, 07:47 AM

This is the most revealing response since I joined this forum. I need not comment any further other than to draw attention to my previous response:

Two questions:

Can you refer me to any action taken against Bohemia Grove for ANY alleged illegal or criminal activity?

Can you please name one single member of Bohemia Grove who has been arrested, charged, prosecuted and found guilty of any one of the crimes that you have alleged due to his membership of Bohemia Grove?

If not, you owe them a democratic apology.

It is a revealing response isn't it. It should sound so familiar because it's the one you use all the time when we talk about your masonic secrets.

Stop saying I owe anyone anything, I owe nothing. Especially not to those people.

darketernal

10-01-2009, 07:58 AM

I have to agree here. The system is skewed in their favor, and witnesses can be threatened, discredited or even made to disappear because the men involved are top people in business, politics and the justice system.. and where witnesses are given no support, no media exposure and no ability to tell their story.. lack of mainstream proof does not mean innocence on the part of the guilty.

We owe them nothing. I do not owe the men who exposed me to the world spoken of in this thread anything either.

grandsecretary

10-01-2009, 11:19 AM

So they all stand in front of a owl statue in the likeness of Moloch doing a sacrifice of a human with blood curdling screams. Dresses in black and red robes.

Moloch being the ancient deity of the devil.

Get your facts straight.

Boots that is your twisted interpretation. Nobody mentions Moloch, it is a figment of your imagination. It is a Celtic Fire Festival, no more, no less. it includes the cremation of a straw man, as it always has. It is a symbol of re-birth. The old giving way to the new.

By making this accusation you are suggesting that Celts are all devil worshippers, a quite disgraceful suggestion. Your problem is that you have an irrational obsession and you are determined to make everything fit in with your assertions which have no basis in fact or reality.

I deal with evidence, not wild speculation.

grandsecretary

10-01-2009, 11:22 AM

It is a revealing response isn't it. It should sound so familiar because it's the one you use all the time when we talk about your masonic secrets.

Stop saying I owe anyone anything, I owe nothing. Especially not to those people.

Another attack because you cannot answer the simplest of questions. Unless you do it proves that you are making unfounded allegations which have no basis in truth.

You have no obligation to answer perfectly reasonable questions, but silence is often the loudest noise.

grandsecretary

10-01-2009, 11:24 AM

I do not owe the men who exposed me to the world spoken of in this thread anything either.

In your case the sound of the grinding of an axe is deafening.

eyepod

10-01-2009, 11:36 AM

It is a Celtic Fire Festival, no more, no less. it includes the cremation of a straw man, as it always has. It is a symbol of re-birth. The old giving way to the new.

By making this accusation you are suggesting that Celts are all devil worshippers, a quite disgraceful suggestion. Your problem is that you have an irrational obsession and you are determined to make everything fit in with your assertions which have no basis in fact or reality.

I deal with evidence, not wild speculation.

The ritual is the Cremation of Care which is Somerian / Babylonian in origin and has nothing to do with Celtic fire festivals or the burning of a straw man. You say you deal with evidence but you're either in denial, misinformed or wildly speculating ;)

grandsecretary

10-01-2009, 11:43 AM

The ritual is the Cremation of Care which is Somerian / Babylonian in origin and has nothing to do with Celtic fire festivals or the burning of a straw man. You say you deal with evidence but you're either in denial, misinformed or wildly speculating ;)

No it isn't. The ceremony in Edinburgh is not just similar, it is IDENTICAL! That is evidence.

You do what I have done and provide us with a video of another credibly sourced Cremation of Care ritual so that we can compare it, and we might believe you, but not before.

eyepod

10-01-2009, 11:47 AM

No it isn't. The ceremony in Edinburgh is not similar, it is IDENTICAL!

From the transcript of ceremony:
Dull Care in all of his works
Harbored it
As vanished Babylon and goodly Tyre
So shall they also vanish
But the wilding rose blows on the broken battlements of Tyre
And moss rends the stones of BabylonDo they go on about Babylon in Edinburgh and make sacrifices to an concrete owl there to?

grandsecretary

10-01-2009, 12:03 PM

From the transcript of ceremony:
Do they go on about Babylon in Edinburgh and make sacrifices to an concrete owl there to?

It makes a cremated sacrifice in exactly the same way. That is what I am telling you. Watch the video.

Strigiformes have been used by many religions as symbol of many things. The Aztecs and the Mayans used it to represent death and destruction; Hindus, cosmic sprituality; Native Americans, protection.

In this case it is firmly the Celtic use, a symbol of Wisdom. The Celtic/Pagan use of the word "Babylon" (bāb-ilû) means "Gateway of the gods". This is a Celtic Ceremony but it does NOT mean that those who enjoy the colour and atmosphere of such old traditions are pagans, or devil worshippers. It is an excuse for a party and a fireworks display.

PS: and before you ask, the reference to Babylon and Tyre is a direct reference to the destruction and rebirth of Tyre under Nebuchadnezzar, Isaiah 23. The Celtic Fire festival is a festival of ending and beginning, the destruction and the re-birth of the Seasons.

These things all have similar roots.

darketernal

10-01-2009, 12:05 PM

In your case the sound of the grinding of an axe is deafening.

Yes, the house never squared up with me before I left... and they should not have let me keep the axe anyways.

My goals serve the greater good, even if none of the factions involved realize it just yet. The balance that has been maintained, no one wants to upset, but it is not a natural balance or flow and it is nearly time for it to be corrected.

eyepod

10-01-2009, 12:14 PM

It makes a cremated sacrifice in exactly the same way. That is what I am telling you. Watch the video.

Strigiformes have been used by many religions as symbol of many things. The Aztecs and the Mayans used it to represent death and destruction; Hindus, cosmic sprituality; Native Americans, protection.

In this case it is firmly the Celtic use, a symbol of Wisdom. The Celtic/Pagan use of the word "Babylon" (bāb-ilû) means "Gateway of the gods". This is a Celtic Ceremony but it does NOT mean that those who enjoy the colour and atmosphere of such old traditions are pagans, or devil worshippers. It is an excuse for a party and a fireworks display.

I doubt the guy who has been strung up by the Bohemian crew (and no doubt later cremated) would agree that it's a good "excuse for a party" maybe he was hood-winked ;)

http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/FindingAids/dynaweb/calher/bohemian/figures/I0025309A.jpg

grandsecretary

10-01-2009, 12:22 PM

Yes, the house never squared up with me before I left... and they should not have let me keep the axe anyways.

My goals serve the greater good, even if none of the factions involved realize it just yet. The balance that has been maintained, no one wants to upset, but it is not a natural balance or flow and it is nearly time for it to be corrected.

Well I have great sympathy with you. Sometimes when you leave something behind and move on, those left behind take exception, and try to damage or destroy what you have chosen in preference to their way.

It is an expression of insecurity. Does that make sense to you?

grandsecretary

10-01-2009, 12:24 PM

eyeypod, here in England we burn an effigy in allusion to the method of execution used in Medieval times. How is your picture related to Bohemia Grove?

soulja

10-01-2009, 12:32 PM

How is your picture related to Bohemia Grove?

it's a picture taken at the grove..

eyepod

10-01-2009, 12:38 PM

eyeypod, here in England we burn an effigy in allusion to the method of execution used in Medieval times. How is your picture related to Bohemia Grove?

Berkley Univeristy in California has a sub-section on their website depicting in photographs some historical aspects of California. The link below contains photographs from the 1900's of the activities and ceremonies at Bohemian Grove (I posted a number of them in page one of this thread). So the image of the hanging man, the dead looking black child etc. on page one of this thread are all taken at Bohemian Grove. Look at the photographs on the linked page below if you want to confirm the fact.

http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/FindingAids/dynaweb/calher/bohemian/figures/?M=D

If you keep following the parent directory link at the top of the linked page you will see that the images are from the Online Archive of California. The link above is specifically the archive of photographs from Bohemian Grove.

darketernal

10-01-2009, 12:46 PM

Well I have great sympathy with you. Sometimes when you leave something behind and move on, those left behind take exception, and try to damage or destroy what you have chosen in preference to their way.

It is an expression of insecurity. Does that make sense to you?

Very much. I truely tried to live a normal life with a career and a wife and to pay my taxes and just follow the rules.

Unfortunately in my case, the insecure one's had the ability to destroy everything I thought was important to me in this life.

Pete, if only you knew how far they took it...

I suppose it was a blessing in a way, because I came to realize what is important to me. Not living a "good life" and all the superficial bullshit we associate with it, but doing what you know to be right even if it costs you things you think you value.

stewart edwards

10-01-2009, 01:26 PM

My goals serve the greater good, even if none of the factions involved realize it just yet.They may realise it, but comfort zones can be a powerful motivator, and fear of change even more of one. Also, something that some Masons have said to me about Masonry(rightly or wrongly), but you may know more than "they" do and that could unnerve some, and when you are unnerved or scared of someone, one stragegy can be to exclude them. If any of these scenarios hit home with you, just be a gentle guiding hand. I certainly have very good reason to believe that a group of Masons, using the masonic system as a tool, nearly tipped me into having a breakdown some years back. Can I prove this belief? Possibly if some people were willing to stand up and be counted and tell what they told me, which I doubt given that they have loyalties and in some cases apparent fear. So I do have a level of understanding of where you are at conceptually.

The balance that has been maintained, no one wants to upset, but it is not a natural balance or flow and it is nearly time for it to be corrected.I would imagine that even given this, they will know inside that things do need to progress in their own self interest long term. Once they find the right "leader" who can work with all of the factions, it will resolve itself. That leader could be you if you wanted the job.

Generalising I have found that for all of the nasty stuff that some people do to you, while it may break you at the time, you can grow stronger from it. I was born into a difficult childhood, dug myself out of it, did well for myself. I then stupidly let darkness in without even realising it, and no one pointed this out to me, and I ended up in a difficult place, a mighty difficult place. I then proceed to dig myself out of it again, only to find that life presents me with all sorts of challenges that make climbing back out unlikley and indeed could easily have made me slip further into darkness. Anyhow I plodded on and suceeded.

The end result is that I achieved many things that I would have once said would have been impossible, just little things, but things nontheless. Inclding being able to help the Masonic world take tender steps forwards from the outside.

I can tell you that when people break you, if you take time to recover, you can rejuvinate much stronger, and each time it happens you get stronger noticeably quicker. I suspect that you have the necessary skills and insight to do similar should you choose to.

Seriously, one day these men who hurt you, or more likely their brothers, may well come to you for your help. And even if they dont they may actually quielty listen to you and incorporate your advice and guidance into their new policies.

Just some thoughts.

Added: Sometimes systems seem to tolerate bad apples for they can do so much good as well as the bad, and there can be the apparent fear of loosing the good if you try to sort out the bad. Seems a bit short sighted to me, for it can drain energies away, from the organisation and from its wider community (which can be hidden and hence not accounted for), but it does seem to happen. Pity that no one seems to have the B@lls to resolve such scenarios. But then again people fear things falling apart when said bad apple takes the huff and walks.

grandsecretary

10-01-2009, 01:38 PM

it's a picture taken at the grove..

Where did the picture come from? How do you know that it was taken at Bohemia Grove? When was it taken please? Under what circumstances? Are you suggesting that it directly connected to the Bohemia Grove Conference?

Please answer because it is very puzzling to me why this very old photograph (late 19th early 20th century IMHO) is relevant to the debate that we are engaged in.

grandsecretary

10-01-2009, 02:16 PM

Here is a profile of just one man who some are prepared to vilify and dismiss as a "devil worshipper":

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/grandsecretary/LipkinIan.jpg

W. Ian Lipkin, Medical Doctor

Speaker at the 2005 Conference - Bohemia Grove
Paper entitled "Peering Into Pandora's Box - Avian Flu and Beyond"

INTRODUCTION:

Ian Lipkin is internationally recognized as an authority on the use of molecular biological methods for pathogen discovery and the role of immune and microbial factors in neurologic and neuropsychiatric diseases

CAREER:

Professor of Epidemiology, Mailman School of Public Health; Director of The Laboratory for Immunopathogenesis and Infectious Diseases; Director of The Center for Developmental Neuroscience; Senior Lecturer at the University of California Irvine; Scientific Director of the Northeast Biodefense Center.

EDUCATION:

BA Sarah Lawrence College, cultural anthropology, philosophy, and literature; Medical Doctorate from Rush Medical College.

POSTGRADUATE TRAINING

Clerkship at the Queen Square Institute of Neurology in London; Internship in Medicine at the University of Pittsburgh; Residency in Internal Medicine at the University of Washington; Residency in Neurology at the University of California, San Francisco; Fellowship in Neurovirology and Molecular Neurobiology at The Scripps Research Institute, La Jolla,

HONOURS:

National Multiple Sclerosis Society Postdoctoral Fellowship; Clinical Investigator Development Award, National Institutes of Health, National Institute of Neurological and Communicative Disorders and Stroke; NARSAD Young Investigator; Pew Scholar; Visiting Professor, Japanese Human Science Foundation; Visiting Bruenn Professor, Columbia College of Physicians and Surgeons; Louise Turner Arnold Chair in the Neurosciences, Foundation Lecturer, American Society of Microbiology, Ellison Medical Foundation Senior Scholar in Global Infectious Diseases.

ACHIEVEMENTS:

Established the first clinic for investigating neurologic manifestations of HIV infection.

Identified AIDS-associated inflammatory neuropathy and demonstrated that this crippling syndrome could be treated with plasmapheresis.

Demonstrated that early life viral infection can cause behavioral and neurotransmitter disturbances without obvious evidence of brain infection or injury, important in the context of neuropsychiatric diseases such as autism and schizophrenia.

Created molecular methods for rapidly detecting unknown viruses in clinical materials. The first application of these methods resulted in identification of Borna disease virus, a new type of virus that had eluded classical methods for virus purification.

Isolated the first genes of the Bornes Disease virus, cloned its genome and defined its replication strategy and the molecular basis for neurotropism and behavioral syndromes associated with acute and persistent brain infection.

Leader of the International team assessing the role of the Bornes Disease virus in human neuropsychiatric diseases.

Identified the West Nile virus in the brains of encephalitis victims in New York State.

Advisor to the Chinese government on dealing with severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS).

He is welcome in my home at any time. I cannot say the same for those who are prepared to damage this brilliant young man's hard earned reputation.

soulja

10-01-2009, 02:16 PM

Where did the picture come from? How do you know that it was taken at Bohemia Grove? When was it taken please? Under what circumstances? Are you suggesting that it directly connected to the Bohemia Grove Conference?

Please answer because it is very puzzling to me why this very old photograph (late 19th early 20th century IMHO) is relevant to the debate that we are engaged in.

the photos were released by the Bohemian club itself, read eyepod's last post on the previous page..

grandsecretary

10-01-2009, 02:22 PM

the photos were released by the Bohemian club itself, read eyepod's last post on the previous page..

That is what puzzles me. It is taken from a University website, not Bohemian Grove. I just wanted to make sure of its context and provenance.

And IMHO everyone shoud read this, bearing in mind that it is Wikipedia and not guaranteed to be 100% accurate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Club. It puts "Bohemia Grove" into some context.

eternal_spirit

10-01-2009, 04:31 PM

INTRODUCTION:

quote grandsecretary
Ian Lipkin is internationally recognized as an authority on the use of molecular biological methods for pathogen discovery and the role of immune and microbial factors in neurologic and neuropsychiatric diseasesI'll play devil's advocate and suggest what else he maybe involved with.
Pathogens, living viruses contained in chemtrails. Which by means not the only way to infect people.

Avian Flu
Professor of Epidemiology, Mailman School of Public Health; Director of The Laboratory for Immunopathogenesis and Infectious Diseases; Director of The Center for Developmental Neuroscience; Senior Lecturer at the University of California Irvine; Scientific Director of the Northeast Biodefense Center
Avian flu and AIDS - man made virus
Biodefense = Biological warefare.

Quote Alan Watt: Obviously Africa has been slated for a long time for massive depopulation. However, a colleague of Salk who did the polio vaccine was Joseph Gallo and he's the character who got the main contract to create the AIDS disease. They're all well connected. If you look at Frederick Banting who's held up as a hero in history for developing, amongst other things, insulin for diabetes control; he came from Alliston, Ontario, Canada but this man was the top bacteriologist for germ warfare during World War II. When you read his memoirs and what he was developing, he was developing diseases which would wipe out everybody with a German gene in their body, and he said in his own memoirs and anybody can go and find the memoirs of Banting. He said "I won't be happy until everyone with a German gene is extinct from this planet". This is a great hero who's got statues up to him for helping children in diabetes. Yes, and also he developed a disease which would be spread amongst cattle and the idea was to kill off the food production in Germany and strangely enough has all the same symptoms as what we call Mad Cow disease today. Isn't that a coincidence? Every major figure they give you in history is really one of the elite and they are mass murderers.
end quote

I suggest anyone who trusts what the main stream media and doctors/scientists etc say to read this article here.

http://cuttingthroughthematrix.com/transcripts/Alan_Watt_on_Sweet_Liberty_Aug262004.html

These people who work for the bio warfare departments (that they now like to call bio defence:rolleyes:)
When they create an infectious disease/virus by law they also have to apparently create an antidote/cure.

Problem reaction solution - create the problem "secretly from the public" Then publicly come out with a cure and be labelled a saviour and hero.