Native Indians and Aboriginals: true Freemen

[cacadores]

There were free men.

These were the Native Indians and Aboriginals who inhabited all these Common Law countries before the white man came and took it from him. And who continue to take it from him (in Canada, for example, where logging rights have been used as en excuse for asserting crown privalage).

In Commonwealth counrties and in America, both the Crown and the federal government even made treaties (which overrule all other laws) with many native tribes as one state to another. Native areas were even referred to as nations and their people as free within their territories.

Yet the territiries were still taken. And over vast tracts of land, the real free men (demonstrably free) are no longer free.

So I ask these questions:

If the 'Freeman' concept is real, how come the Indians and Aboriginals are not free of our laws?

Why do the 'Freeman' supporters make no mention of the native peoples - is not the lack of reference to them, well, debunnking the whole concept?

[yozhik]

There were free men.

These were the Native Indians and Aboriginals who inhabited all these Common Law countries before the white man came and took it from him. And who continue to take it from him (in Canada, for example, where logging rights have been used as en excuse for asserting crown privalage).

In Commonwealth counrties and in America, both the Crown and the federal government even made treaties (which overrule all other laws) with many native tribes as one state to another. Native areas were even referred to as nations and their people as free within their territories.

Yet the territiries were still taken. And over vast tracts of land, the real free men (demonstrably free) are no longer free.

So I ask these questions:

If the 'Freeman' concept is real, how come the Indians and Aboriginals are not free of our laws?

Why do the 'Freeman' supporters make no mention of the native peoples - is not the lack of reference to them, well, debunnking the whole concept?

I think if you do a little more research, particularly in the Australian freeman movement, the original Australians are VERY forefront in the movement and the developments "Downunder".

So, in reply to your final question; no, it doesn't debunk the whole concept. :)

[boots]

I think if you do a little more research, particularly in the Australian freeman movement, the original Australians are VERY forefront in the movement and the developments "Downunder".

So, in reply to your final question; no, it doesn't debunk the whole concept. :)


Good point.

He obviously hasn't heard of Mabo.



.

[deafbred]

when the indians were doing a dance for restoration of their culture .... the white man seen this and shot them because they felt threatened and thought it to be a war dance

the "CROWN" ....isn't the center of the world -

the indians weren't "The New World"

it is actually an older culture than the "CROWN"

the indians are on reservations and have been nearly exterminated for a REASON

to COVER UP THE TRUTH

their culture would explain a lot if there were more communication

basically, things have been HIJACKED and are turned upside down

the truth- they don't want to get out- they don't want us to get to the bottom of this, and yes, part of it has to do with 'down under'

true history isn't what they tell you in their history books ... even the bible isn't total original truth, its been tainted by small "white" lies

the indian culture is being WIPED OUT - suppressed - and I heard and Indian once say --- that he himself blames the Indians to for like.. becoming like the White Man-

loving gold and money and the foolhardiness it brings-

look at the casinos

the Indian has become just as foolish as the white man he said in a big way

chasing after gold and silver, money


he said the Indian men of today need to wake up and start talking to their own brothers... even the white man to, because if they don't come together ... humanity is going down the tubes

he doesn't see a pretty future if things keep going the way they do

Im sure they will keep going the way it has been

something got a grip on us all

and there is no real reason for it- only those dark ones who know the truth of their deeds, continue to deceive and mislead the world

[cacadores]

Thank you for your comments.

In Canada not so long ago, on a territory recognised as sovereign by previous treaty with the Crown, an Indian chief died with no sons.

The British Columbian government siezed this land under Crown privilage: that is the law that unclaimed land reverts to the Crown. They used the illogical pretext that the landowners had a logging debt.

What I'm pointing out, is that native peoples are not considered freemen by the law.

In the past, when individually they spoke no English, they were still presumed citizens even though they had demonstrably not given consent.

Given this lack of concent and given the in-extant sovereign treaties that still exist, one would expect that they would have the greatest of all cases in asserting 'freeman' status.

Yet they don't. Why? I have some ideas but wanted to see if anyone had better ones.

Cheers

Good point.
He obviously hasn't heard of Mabo.
.
Tell us about Mabo:)

You probably know, that according to the US supreme court, all inherent powers given to Indian territories, like rights over land can be extinguished by the Federal Government anytime it so choses.

[yozhik]

Thank you for your comments.

In Canada not so long ago, on a territory recognised as sovereign by previous treaty with the Crown, an Indian chief died with no sons.

The British Columbian government siezed this land under Crown privilage: that is the law that unclaimed land reverts to the Crown. They used the illogical pretext that the landowners had a logging debt.

What I'm pointing out, is that native peoples are not considered freemen by the law.

In the past, when individually they spoke no English, they were still presumed citizens even though they had demonstrably not given consent.

Given this lack of concent and given the in-extant sovereign treaties that still exist, one would expect that they would have the greatest of all cases in asserting 'freeman' status.

Yet they don't. Why? I have some ideas but wanted to see if anyone had better ones.

Cheers


Tell us about Mabo:)

Is this merely the application of the Legal Maxim; From his silence a man's consent is inferred?

I'm not stating a position of it being wrong or right, merely posing the question.

[1694]

Is this merely the application of the Legal Maxim; From his silence a man's consent is inferred?

I'm not stating a position of it being wrong or right, merely posing the question.

Where did this come from?

I have recently been engaged in a court action and in my research I came across an EU supreme court directive which explicitly stateted that:

"Silence on the issue did not constitute consent. Consent could be implied but not inferred."

Can you cite.

[deafbred]

the law of 'man' = sham

[cacadores]

Where did this come from?
I have recently been engaged in a court action and in my research I came across an EU supreme court directive which explicitly stateted that:
"Silence on the issue did not constitute consent. Consent could be implied but not inferred."
Can you cite.

That's a pretty powerful find, 1694. Bear in mind, however, that EU law operates under a Roman system, which, to summarise, is only top down and doesn't recognise precident in non-statute cases as law.

[yozhik]

Where did this come from?

I have recently been engaged in a court action and in my research I came across an EU supreme court directive which explicitly stateted that:

"Silence on the issue did not constitute consent. Consent could be implied but not inferred."

Can you cite.

Search under "maxims of law".
However, I also read that this maxim was not applicable in contract law, as silence, as it is interpreted in contract, is as you have quoted.

[noobcybot]

Remember that they are in a constant war with alternative lifestyles of many kinds. I think you are right to point out the Native Americans with this. But simply they lost their war. Compartmentalised on the reserves and put onto drink and drugs. They were a people at a better balance with a better balance than us ( at least this was evident in most tribes ) yet they were not special or much differant in terms of resistance to the material world and its agenda. And it must be hard to maintain the approach and love and respect if youre people are getting massacred.

[cacadores]

Thank you. Don't forget I'm talking of recent times too when the killing stopped and not all 'nations' fought.

Put it like this:

Native peoples were demonstrably Free Men, living on free land.

They did not give their concent to be subject to crown or federal law. They were even recognised as sovereign in treaties.

They had their land stolen and are now all subject to Federal Law or the Crown, without their concent even though the treaties still exist, even though all international treaties trump domestic law!

Ipso facto, the Freeman concept doesn't work.

Discuss.:)

I'd love to be proved wrong......but where? When? It's the death-knell to the concept, isn't it?

[wise haven]

I have posted this reply in a thread on this forum (Freeman on the Land)

I'm not being lazy - just conserving effort :)


Just seen your post and counter post.

You have voiced the selfsame idea that I have been thinking.

This takes a longer and deeper examination and debate than is available here, I think.

I don't have any answers - but I am prepared to look for them and face those answers even if they fuck with my sensibilities.

I can't justify anything that happened to the Native Americans be it in Canada, US or S America. Anyone that tried would be naive.

These injustices happened in the past - but, more worryingly they continue to happen to indigenous peoples around the world in pretty much the same manner. We cannot change the past -but how bout all of us that want to see an end to this crap try and change the ways things are happening, still, here and now.

I don't think things have changed much in the last 400 hundred years - it is still the corporate vampires sucking the lifeblood from us all.

We can't change the past but we can stop the past repeating itself over and over and over and over again..............its gotta start somewhere....why not here with this idea?

[dondaz]

If the 'Freeman' concept is real, how come the Indians and Aboriginals are not free of our laws?

Why do the 'Freeman' supporters make no mention of the native peoples - is not the lack of reference to them, well, debunnking the whole concept?

The crown does not return land. One claims it for oneself.

mark mcmurtrie aboriginal sovereignty british legal scam 1 - YouTube

mark mcmurtrie aboriginal sovereignty british legal scam 2 - YouTube

mark mcmurtrie aboriginal sovereignty british legal scam 3 - YouTube

North American Indians and how they have claimed their land:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)


http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)


http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)


http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)


http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)


http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)


http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)

The natives of New Zealand are doing the same. Pretty soon millions will be claiming thier independance and land and rightly so!

[boots]

Couldn't get those AM vids to work Dondaz :(

You are right though, the native people are taking back their lands and doing it in their own way.

Mabo anyone.:) Thats the first step. now us whities will help it along with the next one by us using the system against them, ie the holes they have created.