Top Mason Admits Conspiracy

[banoyes]

"We must now face the harsh truth that the objectives of communism are being steadily advanced because
many of us do not recognize the means used to advance them.

The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a Conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.
The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil
which has been introduced into our midst."
____________
33° Scottish Rite Freemason J. Edgar Hoover
Freemasonry served as one of Hoover's main political power bases

These people scared Hoover,
this high ranked maison came, face to face, with the truth
and it isn't pretty

[thetonic]

Im so sick of freemason threads... they are all worthless idiots as well as most on this forum

enough with the masons already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

[keystone]

"We must now face the harsh truth that the objectives of communism are being steadily advanced because
many of us do not recognize the means used to advance them.

The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a Conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.
The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil
which has been introduced into our midst."
____________
33° Scottish Rite Freemason J. Edgar Hoover
Freemasonry served as one of Hoover's main political power bases

These people scared Hoover,
this high ranked maison came, face to face, with the truth
and it isn't pretty

Errm he was talking about communism actually.

[keystone]

Im so sick of freemason threads... they are all worthless idiots as well as most on this forum

enough with the masons already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

Good morning to you dear thetonic as well. Am I really a worthless idiot? If Ben had a brain he wouldn't have started this one about a masonic conspiracy anyway. Hoover was talking about communism. Buts thats what some people are really really good at - taking stuff out of context and making it into something it isn't in pursuit of a childish agenda.

[armoured_amazon]

"We must now face the harsh truth that the objectives of communism are being steadily advanced because
many of us do not recognize the means used to advance them.

The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a Conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.
The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil
which has been introduced into our midst."
____________
33° Scottish Rite Freemason J. Edgar Hoover
Freemasonry served as one of Hoover's main political power bases

These people scared Hoover,
this high ranked maison came, face to face, with the truth
and it isn't pretty

Heh, that's my signature on another forum. And so very true.

"The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists." — J. Edgar Hoover

[banoyes]

Errm he was talking about communism actually.
Karl Marx, Lenin and Trotsky,Freemasons,
Communism is being advanced by a conspiracy,
not Communism is a conspiracy.

[keystone]

Karl Marx, Lenin and Trotsky,Freemasons,
Communism is being advanced by a conspiracy,Thats Henry Makows interpretation. What is your opinion?

Communism is a conspiracy.Is what Hoover WAS saying in the context of the 1930s.

[banoyes]

Thats Henry Makows interpretation. What is your opinion?

Is what Hoover WAS saying in the context of the 1930s.
"the objectives of communism are being steadily advanced because
many of us do not recognize the means used to advance them."

Communism is being advanced BY a conspiracy
I have come to the conclusion that you are stupid

[keystone]

"the objectives of communism are being steadily advanced because
many of us do not recognize the means used to advance them."

Communism is being advanced BY a conspiracy
I have come to the conclusion that you are stupidSo as normal we can take two separate apparently unlinked sentances and put them together to make a different meaning from that which the author probably intended and somehow you then manage to make that into a masonic conspiracy.

I'm stupid apparently because I spot it the flaw. Any that swallow this guff aren't I suppose?

Name calling is rule 5 which you are particularly good at.

[meksar]

Death to Freemasonry

[keystone]

Death to FreemasonryI have a strange buzzing noise in my ear - sounds something like a mosquito. No matter it means nothing.

[banoyes]

So as normal we can take two separate apparently unlinked sentances
Mr maison, unlinks the sentences.
Any can see they are part of the same thought
but maisons are desperate to keep this under wraps
even to the extent off making themselves look stupid

[keystone]

Mr maison, unlinks the sentences.
Any can see they are part of the same thought
but maisons are desperate to keep this under wraps
even to the extent off making themselves look stupid

Oh jolly good. They aren't linked in the first place. You have previous for this you've dne it with Pike and with Mackey. I suppose this is a manifestaton of your analytical skills just like this one from you previously:

I am reading "Tragedy and Hope right now
Curiously the word Freemason does not appear in the index
I figure this was part of the instructions from the Elite.
It is such an obvious ommission

[keystone]

Death to Freemasonry

Bzzzzz

[banoyes]

Oh jolly good. They aren't linked in the first place. You have previous for this you've dne it with Pike and with Mackey. I suppose this is a manifestaton of your analytical skills just like this one from you previously:
Deny,Deny,Deny
Thats all this Freemaison can do
look at his posts
Deny,Deny,Deny
The quote is all one thought,
but somehow this fine fellow wants to dissemble it
Freemaisons hate the truth

[keystone]

The quote is all one thought,Prove it.

but somehow this fine fellow wants to dissemble itYou are the one doing the dissembling.

Freemaisons hate the truthBS.

[banoyes]

Prove it.

You are the one doing the dissembling.

BS.
Just the way this fine fellow post is a part of distraction
He posts like this a lot
big long meaningless crap-
maybe 2-3 in a row like the one above
keystone is a shill and a troll,
with no purpose other then deny everything and disrupt as much as possible.
He has never made any post of substance since his arrival
I know
I outted him as a maison
be hard to find a more disingenuous fellow

[noobcybot]

I think by now everyone can see what Keystone does.

[meksar]

keystone,mike martin,marpat and lightindarkness are all masonic shills they are not here by accident.

[banoyes]

keystone,mike martin,marpat and lightindarkness are all masonic shills they are not here be accident.
Ain't that the truth

[keystone]

Just the way this fine fellow post is a part of distraction
He posts like this a lot
big long meaningless crap-Been looking in the mirror then? Instead of from more distraction tactics how about you answer the question?

keystone is a shill and a troll,
with no purpose other then deny everything and disrupt as much as possible.definitely Ben has found the mirroe.

He has never made any post of substance since his arrival
I know
I outted him as a maisonDid you buggery! I admitted it myself on the 911 forum which only gave you another excuse to be offensive as you then found another stick to beat me with.

be hard to find a more disingenuous fellowTaling about yourself again I see.

[keystone]

I think by now everyone can see what Keystone does.Thank you.

[keystone]

keystone,mike martin,marpat and lightindarkness are all masonic shills they are not here be accident.

Ain't that the truth

Allow me to introduce the benny and masker self-appreciation society. Joe nearly joined once.

[grandsecretary]

Karl Marx, Lenin and Trotsky, Freemasons

Sources and attributions please.

[banoyes]

Sources and attributions please.
You find them Maison
I already have

[grandsecretary]

You find them Maison
I already have

No you haven't.

[banoyes]

"We must now face the harsh truth that the objectives of communism are being steadily advanced because
many of us do not recognize the means used to advance them.

The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a Conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.
The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil
which has been introduced into our midst."
____________
33° Scottish Rite Freemason J. Edgar Hoover
Freemasonry served as one of Hoover's main political power bases

These people scared Hoover,
this high ranked maison came, face to face, with the truth
and it isn't pretty
These maison trolls just work a thread over,ever see a maison post of substance?
You won't,unless you want to know about the distinctions between sects of the maison cult
I have to say
These maisons reveal a lot with their denial tactics
They have no other recourse
The truth about maisons is becoming more public
maybe even revive the "Anti-Mason Party"

[mike martin]

"We must now face the harsh truth that the objectives of communism are being steadily advanced because
many of us do not recognize the means used to advance them.

The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a Conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.
The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil
which has been introduced into our midst."
____________
33° Scottish Rite Freemason J. Edgar Hoover
Freemasonry served as one of Hoover's main political power bases

These people scared Hoover,
this high ranked maison came, face to face, with the truth
and it isn't pretty

So let me get this straight. You are highlighting the fact that a 33rd Degree Mason was aware of and publicising a conspiracy in the 1950s?

I don't get your point. He stated that the conspiracy was communism (according to your own quote) there is no mention of Freemasonry being involved.

Mike

[banoyes]

So let me get this straight. You are highlighting the fact that a 33rd Degree Mason was aware of and publicising a conspiracy in the 1950s?

I don't get your point. He stated that the conspiracy was communism (according to your own quote) there is no mention of Freemasonry being involved.

Mike
another with comprehension problems
HE DOES NOT SAY COMMUNISM IS A CONSPIRACY
"communism are being steadily advanced because
many of us do not recognize the means used to advance them."

disgusting talking to a maison
they lie at the drop of an apron

[element]

another with comprehension problems
HE DOES NOT SAY COMMUNISM IS A CONSPIRACY
"communism are being steadily advanced because
many of us do not recognize the means used to advance them."

disgusting talking to a maison
they lie at the drop of an apron

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/member.php?u=15586

[banoyes]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/member.php?u=15586
WTF is this
element serves a master

[element]

WTF is this
element serves a master

Here's my point.
I've followed ol' Joe's threads around, seen his language, words, grammar and spelling. And the rants. It's almost completely identical to yours.

What do you think..?

[banoyes]

Here's my point.
I've followed ol' Joe's threads around, seen his language, words, grammar and spelling. And the rants. It's almost completely identical to yours.

What do you think..?
element serves a master
put my name in a search engine, mr researcher
and if you're looking for your head
I know just where it is

[grandsecretary]

Before we can debate this in any meaningful way we need to establish what are Communist Objectives and what are The Objectives of Freemasonry, and then compare them.

Otherwise banoyes is indulging himself in empty mischief - AGAIN!

This could be a long thread.

[banoyes]

Before we can debate this in any meaningful way we need to establish what are Communist Objectives and what are The Objectives of Freemasonry, and then compare them.

Otherwise banoyes is indulging himself in empty mischief - AGAIN!

This could be a long thread.
no we don't
who are you to come and lay down rules
oh a maison
that splains it.
The point is a conspiracy exists
fck Communist Objectives,has no bearing
and you and your scummy cult are the worlds leader in conspiracies

[kasalt]

These anti-Freemasonry threads are a waste of space. So thin on substance and yet so thick with spite and hatefulness.

[element]

element serves a master
put my name in a search engine, mr researcher
and if you're looking for your head
I know just where it is

Why so? Because you may be feeling exposed?
The similarities between you and BanF are way too similar.

It can't be a coincidence, only a maison would say it is.

[mike martin]

another with comprehension problems
Only when it comes to your point!

HE DOES NOT SAY COMMUNISM IS A CONSPIRACY
"communism are being steadily advanced because
many of us do not recognize the means used to advance them."
Oh OK! He wasn't talking about a communist conspiracy. Thank you for clearing that up.

The Communist Party, USA, has been and is engaged in an all-out war against American freedom. Its tactics of confusion, retreat, advance, infiltration, and hypocrisy are in full play. The attack is both legal and illegal, offensive and defensive, open and concealed.

Above the surface a gigantic propaganda and agitation campaign is in progress, a campaign that depends for success upon the support of noncommunists. Basic communist strategy dictates that noncommunist hands, knowingly or unknowingly, under communist guidance, must further the influence of the communist world

He published Masters of Deceit in 1958 (that's where the quote comes from), a book that articulated his views on what he perceived to be the Communist conspiracy to overthrow the U.S. government[/quote]


disgusting talking to a maison
they lie at the drop of an apron
PMSL houses wearing aprons, then sitting down when they drop them!! You're quite funny!

Mike

[banoyes]

Why so? Because you may be feeling exposed?
The similarities between you and BanF are way too similar.

I can't be a coincidence, only a maison would say it is.
You said it
not I
well, I've been suspicious of you for awhile
your posts are so
maison sportive

[banoyes]

Only when it comes to your point!


Oh OK! He wasn't talking about a communist conspiracy. Thank you for clearing that up.



He published Masters of Deceit in 1958 (that's where the quote comes from), a book that articulated his views on what he perceived to be the Communist conspiracy to overthrow the U.S. government




PMSL houses wearing aprons, then sitting down when they drop them!! You're quite funny!

Mike[/QUOTE]
You are quite transparent

[thetonic]

Good morning to you dear thetonic as well. Am I really a worthless idiot? If Ben had a brain he wouldn't have started this one about a masonic conspiracy anyway. Hoover was talking about communism. Buts thats what some people are really really good at - taking stuff out of context and making it into something it isn't in pursuit of a childish agenda.

sorry , was in a bad mood .. of course I dont mean ALL masons... just most ;)

[thelonious]

Errm he was talking about communism actually.

And to be honest, I have more respect for many Communists than I do for J. Edgar Hoover. Communists simply believe that the wealth of the earth belongs to everybody, and there's enough to go around without anybody having to starve or sleep out in the cold.

[banoyes]

And to be honest,
maisons say that when they are out of their normal mode

I have more respect for many Communists than I do for J. Edgar Hoover. Communists simply believe that the wealth of the earth belongs to everybody, and there's enough to go around without anybody having to starve or sleep out in the cold.
Hoover was talking about a conspiracy that controls communism
and scared even a high maison. Top Commies=Top Masons

[grandsecretary]

Well I have had a look and I cannot find any record that Karl Marx, Leon Trotsky or Vladimir Lenin were Freemasons. I would welcome any proof.

[banoyes]

Forgot to question you this, but why did you said ''WTF is this''......?
Isn't it obvious?!!!
No
but you are
Perhaps related to Prince Bernhart?

[barney_rubble]

keystone,mike martin,marpat and lightindarkness are all masonic shills they are not here by accident.

You are correct that they are not here by accident the act of signing up to the forum and logging in to post proves that. What is your point?

[kasalt]

Well I have had a look and I cannot find any record that Karl Marx, Leon Trotsky or Vladimir Lenin were Freemasons. I would welcome any proof.

Not sure about Marx or Lenin, but regarding Trotsky's involvement with Freemasonry, his own quotes on the subject can be found here:

"Trotsky on Freemasonry"
http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/public_perceptions/trotsky.html

Some quotes from others:

From 28 August to 1 September 1911, international freemasonry held its Second Internationale Socialist Congress at the Odd Fellows palace on Bredgade in Copenhagen. The main organizers were the freemason Walter Rathenau and the Jewish masonic lodge B'nai B'rith. Among the participants were the well-known freemasons Karl Liebknecht, Rosa Luxemburg, Lenin, Trotsky, Hjalmar Branting (Sweden), Georges Clemenceau and other leading representatives of the destructive forces (Aage H. Andersen, "Verdensfrimureri" / "World Freemasonry", Copenhagen, 1940, p. 29).

According to Nina Berberova, researcher of Russian freemasonry, Lev Trotsky was for six months a member of a Russian masonic lodge at the early age of eighteen. He left the lodge, when he became a member of foreign lodges, among them Art et Travail (Art and Work) in France (L. Hass, "Freemasonry in Central and Eastern Europe", Wroclaw, 1982).

In the spring of 1914, Trotsky travelled to Venice as a member of the Grand Lodge of France, to meet his masonic brother V. Gacinovic to discuss plans for the assassination of Franz Ferdinand. The masonic brothers Trotsky, Radek and Zinoviev were all informed of the plans for murdering the pretender to the Austria-Hungary throne (Yuri Begunov, "The Secret Powers in Russian History", Moscow, 2000, p. 220).

In 1916, Trotsky studied revolutionary tactics in the French lodge Les droits de l'homme (Yuri Ivanov, "The Jews in Russian History", Moscow, 2000, p. 124). He was also made a member of the powerful Jewish Order B'nai B'rith, which in the United States provided him with financial means on his way back to Russia in the spring of 1917 (Charles W. Ferguson, "Fifty Million Brothers: A Panorama of American Lodges and Clubs", New York, 1937, p. 253).

This was confirmed by the Austrian political scientist Karl Steinhauser. Trotsky was also a member of the Shriner Lodge, where only freemasons who have reached the 32 nd degree can be members (Johan van Leers, "The Power Behind the President", Stockholm, 1941).

While staying in the America in 1917, Trotsky also became a member of the Memphis Israel Lodge (Vladimir Istarkhov, "The Battle of the Russian Gods", Moscow, 2000, p. 154).

He achieved the 33rd degree in Moscow in 1919, while receiving a delegation of brothers from abroad (Grigori Bostunich, "Freemasonry and the Russian Revolution", Moscow, 1995, pp. 55-56).

Source: http://just-another-inside-job.blogspot.com/2008/02/architects-of-deception-part-xiv.htmlTrotsky as a Freemason

Mr. Leiba Bronstein became a freemason in 1897 and later a high-ranking Illuminatus through his friend Alexander Parvus. He also maintained contacts with B'nai B'rith, a Jewish Masonic order, which had previously aided Jewish "revolutionaries" in Russia.

Jacob Schiff, chairman of the banking house Kuhn, Loeb & Co. and a minion of the Rothschilds, took care of the contacts between the "revolutionary movement in Russia" and B'nai B'rith. (Gerald B. Winrod, "Adam Weishaupt - A Human Devil", p. 47.)

Leiba Bronstein began to study freemasonry and the history of the secret societies seriously in 1898, and continued these studies during the two years he spent in prison in Odessa. He took notes amounting to over 1000 pages. "Internationaler Freimaurer-Lexikon" (Vienna/Munich, 1932, p. 204) reluctantly admits that Leiba Bronstein-Trotsky came to Bolshevism through this study of freemasonry...

Leon Trotsky became a member of the Jewish Masonic order B'nai B'rith in New York, in January 1917. (Yuri Begunov, Secret Forces in the History of Russia, St. Petersburg, 1995, pp. 138-139.) He was already a member of the Misraim-Memphis freemasonry.

Winston Churchill confirmed in 1920 that Trotsky was also an Illuminatus. (Illustrated Sunday Herald, 8 February 1920.) Trotsky eventually reached a very high position within freemasonry, since he belonged to the Shriner Lodge, which only freemasons of the 32nd degree and higher were allowed to join.

Source: http://truedemocracy.net/td2_3/99_ads.html

[grandsecretary]

Not sure about Marx or Lenin, but regarding Trotsky's involvement with Freemasonry, his own quotes on the subject can be found here:

"Trotsky on Freemasonry"
http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/public_perceptions/trotsky.html

Some quotes from others:

Thanks for this information. Memphis Misraim is a form of freemasonry. B'nai B'rith is not.

[localidiot]

To kind of expand on what GrandSecretary said about M'nai B'rith:
From site
In the mid-1800's, a group of Jewish-German immigrants sought to find fraternity and fellowship with others of similar background. Although many of these men felt comfortable joining groups such as the Masons and Odd Fellows, others wanted a more ethnic-religious centered group and thus in 1844, the Jewish fraternal order of B'nai B'rith was formed, seeking to reconcile Judaism with American society through voluntary association.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/bnaibrit.htm

And their main site here:
http://www.bnaibrith.org/

[boots]

Freemasonary is part of the conspiracy of the NWO illuminati. Just as the Zionist, etc. They are all layers of the onions.


Err I couldn't be fucked typing all out in my own words. Got better things to do.

In all the major cities of the world Freemasonary has an imprint on them and it also stands to reason that those in top level positions adhere to those principals of these secret groups To say freemasonary is not secret. Thats BS.


Some are just useful idiots (Kissinger) and it is those that join those societies.

http://www.thecrowhouse.com/nwofs.html





Different people blame different groups or conspiracies for these problems. Club of Rome, The Bilderbergers, Freemasons, Bohemian Club... some say Zionists, or the Vatican Conspiracy, some say skull and bones ...and the list goes on. Well the truth is, that all of the above sources are in fact involved, each in its own way and each one carries out specific tasks. Zionism for example is merely one of the most visible arms of the octopus because it is they who carry out most of the worlds terrorism, but Zionism is merely one skin of the onion, as is the Bilderberg Group, Bohemian Club, or any other group. All these organizations are interlinked, to one controlling body at top now widely known as the Illuminati. I covered a great deal about how the whole system is put together and how most of it functions in the Big Picture series which I posted on my youtube channel, and a good deal about the zionist arm of the illuminati who, it would appear, were the true force behind the 911 attacks, is also covered in a 3rd party series I post on my youtube channel entitled 911 missing links. 911 missing links maybe seen as an attack against jews by some but I think it contains relevent and pertinent information concerning the true perpetrators of the 911 attacks which is why I posted it. Zionism however, as I previously said, is merely one layer of the illuminati onion which encompasses all manner of secret societies. Zionism is merely one part. You can think of Zionism as like the "special ops division" of the illuminati which, in turn, has offshoots such as the MOSSAD & CIA, organizations whose sole purpose is to undermine governments and create instability and who control all global drug and human traffic trading and who also control all other terrorist organizations down the food chain such as Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda by the way is an organization which is wholly invented and is actually nothing more than a database consisting of a list of names of Mujahadeen trained in terrorism by the CIA in the late 1970's. The words Al Qaeda literally translates to "the Database" in Arabic. Do not make the mistake of thinking organizations like the CIA & MOSSAD are the good guys, because they are most definitely not. They are anything but.
All the world is a stage and everything of importance that occurs on it, is planned to happen that way and it is through this Illuminati system of intertwining secret societies that the entire world is ultimately run. The vital control centers of this mechanism are the three illuminati city states, all of which are seperate self governing states within host countries. The first is The City of London, which is the Center for Monetary Control, The second is Washintons District of Columbia which is the Center for Military Control and the 3rd is Vatican city which is the center for spiritual Control. Each City State is a completely seperate, self governed and sovereign state within an external sovereign country. Each has its own laws, its own news services and infrastructure, each pays no taxes to the sovereign country in which it is located and each has its own flag. The flag of each bears 3 Stars signifying the 3 city states. Each city also has its own obelisk as the bloodline that controls the world can be clearly traced back to ancient egypt. These are the three Illuminati Control Centers of the world. It is from these three centers that control over all aspects of the world is achieved.

.

[banoyes]

Freemasonary is part of the conspiracy of the NWO illuminati. Just as the Zionist, etc. They are all layers of the onions.
In all the major cities of the world Freemasonary has an imprint on them and it also stands to reason that those in top level positions adhere to those principals of these secret groups To say freemasonary is not secret. Thats BS.


Some are just useful idiots (Kissinger) and it is those that join those societies.

The criteria for membership in many secret groups is membership in Freemasonry, this is the schooling the Elite desire



http://www.thecrowhouse.com/nwofs.html

"The Big Picture" The finest entry into this corruption called "civilization

. The vital control centers of this mechanism are the three illuminati city states, all of which are seperate self governing states within host countries. The first is The City of London, which is the Center for Monetary Control, The second is Washintons District of Columbia which is the Center for Military Control and the 3rd is Vatican city which is the center for spiritual Control. Each City State is a completely seperate, self governed and sovereign state within an external sovereign country. Each has its own laws, its own news services and infrastructure, each pays no taxes to the sovereign country in which it is located and each has its own flag. The flag of each bears 3 Stars signifying the 3 city states. Each city also has its own obelisk as the bloodline that controls the world can be clearly traced back to ancient egypt. These are the three Illuminati Control Centers of the world. It is from these three centers that control over all aspects of the world is achieved.
.
Thats the picture
a great summery

[grandsecretary]

Freemasonary is part of the conspiracy of the NWO illuminati. Just as the Zionist, etc. They are all layers of the onions.


Err I couldn't be fucked typing all out in my own words. Got better things to do.

In all the major cities of the world Freemasonary has an imprint on them and it also stands to reason that those in top level positions adhere to those principals of these secret groups To say freemasonary is not secret. Thats BS.


Some are just useful idiots (Kissinger) and it is those that join those societies.

http://www.thecrowhouse.com/nwofs.html





Different people blame different groups or conspiracies for these problems. Club of Rome, The Bilderbergers, Freemasons, Bohemian Club... some say Zionists, or the Vatican Conspiracy, some say skull and bones ...and the list goes on. Well the truth is, that all of the above sources are in fact involved, each in its own way and each one carries out specific tasks. Zionism for example is merely one of the most visible arms of the octopus because it is they who carry out most of the worlds terrorism, but Zionism is merely one skin of the onion, as is the Bilderberg Group, Bohemian Club, or any other group. All these organizations are interlinked, to one controlling body at top now widely known as the Illuminati. I covered a great deal about how the whole system is put together and how most of it functions in the Big Picture series which I posted on my youtube channel, and a good deal about the zionist arm of the illuminati who, it would appear, were the true force behind the 911 attacks, is also covered in a 3rd party series I post on my youtube channel entitled 911 missing links. 911 missing links maybe seen as an attack against jews by some but I think it contains relevent and pertinent information concerning the true perpetrators of the 911 attacks which is why I posted it. Zionism however, as I previously said, is merely one layer of the illuminati onion which encompasses all manner of secret societies. Zionism is merely one part. You can think of Zionism as like the "special ops division" of the illuminati which, in turn, has offshoots such as the MOSSAD & CIA, organizations whose sole purpose is to undermine governments and create instability and who control all global drug and human traffic trading and who also control all other terrorist organizations down the food chain such as Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda by the way is an organization which is wholly invented and is actually nothing more than a database consisting of a list of names of Mujahadeen trained in terrorism by the CIA in the late 1970's. The words Al Qaeda literally translates to "the Database" in Arabic. Do not make the mistake of thinking organizations like the CIA & MOSSAD are the good guys, because they are most definitely not. They are anything but.
All the world is a stage and everything of importance that occurs on it, is planned to happen that way and it is through this Illuminati system of intertwining secret societies that the entire world is ultimately run. The vital control centers of this mechanism are the three illuminati city states, all of which are seperate self governing states within host countries. The first is The City of London, which is the Center for Monetary Control, The second is Washintons District of Columbia which is the Center for Military Control and the 3rd is Vatican city which is the center for spiritual Control. Each City State is a completely seperate, self governed and sovereign state within an external sovereign country. Each has its own laws, its own news services and infrastructure, each pays no taxes to the sovereign country in which it is located and each has its own flag. The flag of each bears 3 Stars signifying the 3 city states. Each city also has its own obelisk as the bloodline that controls the world can be clearly traced back to ancient egypt. These are the three Illuminati Control Centers of the world. It is from these three centers that control over all aspects of the world is achieved.

.

Well if that were true perhaps you could explain to me why the Catholic Church is so anti-Mason that as a matter of policy it refuses to provide the Holy Sacraments to Freemasons.

[mike martin]

The vital control centers of this mechanism are the three illuminati city states, all of which are seperate self governing states within host countries. The first is The City of London, which is the Center for Monetary Control, The second is Washintons District of Columbia which is the Center for Military Control and the 3rd is Vatican city which is the center for spiritual Control. Each City State is a completely seperate, self governed and sovereign state within an external sovereign country. Each has its own laws, its own news services and infrastructure, each pays no taxes to the sovereign country in which it is located and each has its own flag. The flag of each bears 3 Stars signifying the 3 city states. Each city also has its own obelisk as the bloodline that controls the world can be clearly traced back to ancient egypt. These are the three Illuminati Control Centers of the world. It is from these three centers that control over all aspects of the world is achieved. .

I'm afraid that you have been misled, at least regarding the City of London, by this complete make-believe. The City of London has a traditional separation from the rest of London dating back to AD 1191 when Richard I granted self-government to London, the following year the first Lord Mayor was elected. It's limits are roughly those of the first part of what is now our Capital city.

Have a search for some historical maps and you'll see what I'm talking about. The original Londinium was a very small area set up by the Romans as a minor settlement in AD 43 as the Romans had to build a bridge there. In Roman Britain Colchester was the nearest thing we had to a Capital city.

The original London:
http://www.britainexpress.com/images/london/roman-london.gif

London today is a vast place as it has over the centuries swallowed up other towns and parts of other counties. London actually ended at the Thames 200 years ago it now spreads out into the Southern Counties:

London Today:
http://www.hays.com/jobs/ldsa/IMAGES/mapV2.gif

You could be right about the others I don't know but London you've been misled.

Mike

[boots]

I'm afraid that you have been misled, at least regarding the City of London, by this complete make-believe. The City of London has a traditional separation from the rest of London dating back to AD 1191 when Richard I granted self-government to London, the following year the first Lord Mayor was elected. It's limits are roughly those of the first part of what is now our Capital city.

Have a search for some historical maps and you'll see what I'm talking about. The original Londinium was a very small area set up by the Romans as a minor settlement in AD 43 as the Romans had to build a bridge there. In Roman Britain Colchester was the nearest thing we had to a Capital city.

The original London:
http://www.britainexpress.com/images/london/roman-london.gif

London today is a vast place as it has over the centuries swallowed up other towns and parts of other counties. London actually ended at the Thames 200 years ago it now spreads out into the Southern Counties:

London Today:
http://www.hays.com/jobs/ldsa/IMAGES/mapV2.gif

You could be right about the others I don't know but London you've been misled.

Mike

Nice historical facts there Mike.

You also agree that the city of London is self governed. Beauty thanks, mate.

[boots]

Well if that were true perhaps you could explain to me why the Catholic Church is so anti-Mason that as a matter of policy it refuses to provide the Holy Sacraments to Freemasons.

Is it really though?

It's a bit like the divisions in Masonary yet you all still have the same philosophy.

The layers of the onion might be a little thin and some a little thick yet they still sever as an onion.

Does the Vatican city have an obelisk, grandsec?

.

[hey_jude]

Well if that were true perhaps you could explain to me why the Catholic Church is so anti-Mason that as a matter of policy it refuses to provide the Holy Sacraments to Freemasons.

Sorry to butt in...
My feeling is that ...if the 13 ancient bloodline families where in league together totally - it would probably already be over for us!

But I think 'fighting over the spoils' is in their nature and so the masonic, catholic, zionists et cetera all want to be top dog in the end.

[grandsecretary]

Is it really though?

It's a bit like the divisions in Masonary yet you all still have the same philosophy.

The layers of the onion might be a little thin and some a little thick yet they still sever as an onion.

Does the Vatican city have an obelisk, grandsec?

.

I am in the process of exchanges between myself and the Holy See in Rome on behalf of The Grand Lodge at York, concerning their anti-masonic stance, in an effort to heal the rift caused by The United Grand Lodge of England, which has resulted in this OFFICIAL Vatican policy.

It is an indisputable fact that the Roman Catholic Church regards being a Freemason as being in a state of mortal sin, and as a matter of policy, forbids any Catholic Freemason from being administered the Holy Sacraments.

That is the current policy of the Church in Rome.

Timeline of principal doctrinal decisions, documents, 1981-2005

By Catholic News Service

-- Nov. 26, 1983: "Declaration on Masonic Associations," saying Masonic principles and rituals "embody a naturalistic" religion incompatible with Christianity. Those who knowingly embrace the principles or attend the rituals are involved in serious sin and may not receive Communion.

[boots]

They like playing games. Don't they. That's what happens when those at the very top know what the game is.

The 3 cities are countries, in of themselves who are controlled by the illuminati and the secret societies which freemasonary is but one, are just the layers of the onion.


.

[mike martin]

Nice historical facts there Mike.

You also agree that the city of London is self governed. Beauty thanks, mate.

I agree that it still has a traditional Lord Mayor, which it gets from a historical decision.

HOWEVER, I was addressing all the bullcrap about different taxation, being a different country, Queen having to get permission to enter, etc which is the silliness.

The City of London is just a tradition! It is part of Greater London! Why do you people get so het up about traditions?

Mike

[kenny_bubb]

er...............................

[kenny_bubb]

"Why do you people get so het up about traditions?"

Says the man sporting a ceremonial sky blue sash with matching shiny cuffs..............

[hey_jude]

Just what I was thinking kenny!

I, just yesterday read that the Queen does have to ask permission to enter the "city of london" - this is supposed to be because the Rothschilds own the banking square mile.

www.tupc.org

[slartibartfast]

It is an indisputable fact that the Roman Catholic Church regards being a Freemason as being in a state of mortal sin, and as a matter of policy, forbids any Catholic Freemason from being administered the Holy Sacraments.

A genuine question...

What I am trying to understand is, based on this post and previous posts, you seem to believe that Freemasonry is only for Christians and want approval for the GLoAE from Christian (and especially Catholic) Church authorities? Can you expand on or correct that impression?

[slartibartfast]

"Why do you people get so het up about traditions?"

Says the man sporting a ceremonial sky blue sash with matching shiny cuffs..............

So you are getting "het up" about Mike wearing a sash?

[kenny_bubb]

I am a sea of tranquility, i can assure you.

And if ever a man was born to make the sash and cuff combo work, Mike's the man.

[grandsecretary]

I agree that it still has a traditional Lord Mayor, which it gets from a historical decision.

HOWEVER, I was addressing all the bullcrap about different taxation, being a different country, Queen having to get permission to enter, etc which is the silliness.

The City of London is just a tradition! It is part of Greater London! Why do you people get so het up about traditions?

Mike

Technically, The City of London is a Municipality. The Lord Mayor is elected by the Freemen of the City. A large number of Freemen are also Free Masons, but they are a minority as most Freemen of the City are sponsored by the City Livery Companies, as in my case, or simply by right of birth.

[mike martin]

"Why do you people get so het up about traditions?"

Says the man sporting a ceremonial sky blue sash with matching shiny cuffs..............

It's actually a collar, a sash goes over the shoulder.

The question though is why does that bother/offend you??

Mike

[mike martin]

I, just yesterday read that the Queen does have to ask permission to enter the "city of london" - this is supposed to be because the Rothschilds own the banking square mile.

And so you just believe it? Just like that? You don't actually wonder if it's true and test it? You just believe it?

Is that just because someone stuck the name "Rothschild" into the line??

I'm afraid that your bullshitometer is not working correctly:

Halsbury's Laws of England: Local Government says this about the relationship between the Lord Mayor of the City of London (not the Mayor of Greater London) and the Queen:
By ancient custom the Lord Mayor tenders the City Sword to the Sovereign when she enters the City on state occasions, in token acknowledgement of her overriding authority. The Sovereign touches the sword and, by that gesture, returns it to the Lord Mayor with implied permission to carry it before her whilst she is in the City. Also by ancient custom the permission of the Lord Mayor is sought for the passage of troops through the City, and he receives quarterly, under the Sovereign's sign manual, the password of the Tower of London. As spokesman for the citizens, he is entitled to the right of special access to the Sovereign.

The only place HM the Queen has to ask permission to enter is the Chamber of the House of Commons. To avoid the embarrassment of the Monarch doing so, it is traditional for the Queen to send Black Rod to summon the Commons to the House of Lords.

Doesn't anyone learn about anything nowadays and just make it up instead?

Mike

[grandsecretary]

A genuine question...

What I am trying to understand is, based on this post and previous posts, you seem to believe that Freemasonry is only for Christians and want approval for the GLoAE from Christian (and especially Catholic) Church authorities? Can you expand on or correct that impression?

No. The Grand Lodge of All England started out as a Christian Masonic Grand Lodge. It changed after the massacre of the Jews at Cliffords Tower, York in AD1190 when the rituals were changed and added to in order to give the Jews of York the protection of the Assembly of Masons under the King.

The Ancient Charges require a belief in God and the immortality of souls. Of the major world religions, this allows membership by members of the Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, and Sikh faiths.

The UGLE is considered by the Vatican to be "a naturalistic religion" because it does not require a belief in God and the immortality of souls. Not an attack, a matter of fact confirmed by the Holy See.

See our website, webpage: Your Questions Answered "Do I have to believe in God or Religion".

[grandsecretary]

And so you just believe it? Just like that? You don't actually wonder if it's true and test it? You just believe it?

Is that just because someone stuck the name "Rothschild" into the line??

I'm afraid that your bullshitometer is not working correctly:

The only place HM the Queen has to ask permission to enter is the Chamber of the House of Commons. To avoid the embarrassment of the Monarch doing so, it is traditional for the Queen to send Black Rod to summon the Commons to the House of Lords.

Doesn't anyone learn about anything nowadays and just make it up instead?

Mike

And the gentleman's toilet at Euston Station.

[mike martin]

And the gentleman's toilet at Euston Station.

Actually probably also should have included the Lav when Prince Phillip is in occupation.

Mike

[boots]

I agree that it still has a traditional Lord Mayor, which it gets from a historical decision.

HOWEVER, I was addressing all the bullcrap about different taxation, being a different country, Queen having to get permission to enter, etc which is the silliness.

The City of London is just a tradition! It is part of Greater London! Why do you people get so het up about traditions?

Mike


Traditions carry a lot of weight and have deep meanings.

You have not addressed the issue that these cities. Washington, Vatican and London are states within countries. Why is it so.

It would be nice to get back on to the topic of that post I put in instead of all the crap that was posted after it, except for those that used an inquiring mind.

In actual fact these cities are corporations. They control the world. As stated in the article.

.

[kenny_bubb]

It's actually a collar, a sash goes over the shoulder.

The question though is why does that bother/offend you??

Mike

I have no idea why you may think it either bothered or offended.
I was merely commenting on the irony of a man who on one hand questions why "people get so het up by tradition," but on the other sports traditional, ceremonial collars and cuffs down the lodge.
If it's a crumb of comfort, I do own a pair of lucky socks, which I traditionally wear on Thursdays to ward off the advances of Dale Winton.

[mike martin]

You have not addressed the issue that these cities. Washington, Vatican and London are states within countries. Why is it so.
YES I DID! The City of London is not a separate state, it is a part of Greater London which is a part of England which is a part of the UK.

I then illustrated how you have been misled by straight forward lies about its status and the Queen.

I can't answer for New York but you're right about the Vatican but then again who really cares what the Italians get up to?

Mike

[boots]

YES I DID! The City of London is not a separate state, it is a part of Greater London which is a part of England which is a part of the UK.

I then illustrated how you have been misled by straight forward lies about its status and the Queen.

I can't answer for New York but you're right about the Vatican but then again who really cares what the Italians get up to?

Mike

Now why would a Queen bow down and ask permission to enter one of her so called Territories. It's because it is own by the Rothchilds and has been for a very long time. The city of London is a country within a country, where you like it or not. It's a fact. Just as Washington DC is and the Vatican.

You see Mike everything is under Admiralty law and the law of commerce The UK is a corporation.

.

[keystone]

Actually both Mike and Boots are correct but it is necessary to distinguish between sovereign city states and non-sovereign states.

The City Of London and DC are not normally considered to be city states but having autonomous local governments it wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination to classify them as such. What is important is that they are non-sovereign not being independent of UK and US respectively. They are not unique by any means. Berlin, Canberra (ACT), Brasilia, Mexico City and a number of others all fall under the same category.

The Vatican, San Marino, Singapore and Monaco, however, are sovereign city-states having total independence from the area/nation state surrounding them.

[grandsecretary]

Traditions carry a lot of weight and have deep meanings.

You have not addressed the issue that these cities. Washington, Vatican and London are states within countries. Why is it so.

It would be nice to get back on to the topic of that post I put in instead of all the crap that was posted after it, except for those that used an inquiring mind.

In actual fact these cities are corporations. They control the world. As stated in the article.

.

No.

The Corporation of the City of London is not a State, it is a municipal local authority, the oldest in England.

The City of Washington, by Act of Congress in 1871, was merged with the territory of Columbia to form the District of Columbia. It is NOT a State.

The Vatican State is a State but it was separated from Italy by the Lateran Treaties of 1929. It is a non-hereditary, elected monarchy, that is ruled by the Bishop of Rome — the Pope.

Monaco has a similar status. It is a Principality constituted by the Franco-Monegasque Treaty of 1861. However, this is a hereditary Monarchy (the Grimaldi Family).

PS: keystone has added information above.

[mike martin]

Now why would a Queen bow down and ask permission to enter one of her so called Territories. It's because it is own by the Rothchilds and has been for a very long time. The city of London is a country within a country, where you like it or not. It's a fact. Just as Washington DC is and the Vatican..

You are either unable to read or just don't like to because you're wrong.

I refer you to post #68 and my response to hey_jude

Mike

[grandsecretary]

Now why would a Queen bow down and ask permission to enter one of her so called Territories. It's because it is own by the Rothchilds and has been for a very long time. The city of London is a country within a country, where you like it or not. It's a fact. Just as Washington DC is and the Vatican.

You see Mike everything is under Admiralty law and the law of commerce The UK is a corporation.

.

Cobblers.

[boots]

No.

The Corporation of the City of London is not a State, it is a municipal local authority, the oldest in England.

The City of Washington, by Act of Congress in 1871, was merged with the territory of Columbia to form the District of Columbia. It is NOT a State.

The Vatican State is a State but it was separated from Italy by the Lateran Treaties of 1929. It is a non-hereditary, elected monarchy, that is ruled by the Bishop of Rome — the Pope.

Monaco has a similar status. It is a Principality constituted by the Franco-Monegasque Treaty of 1861. However, this is a hereditary Monarchy (the Grimaldi Family).

PS: keystone has added information above.

A municipal authority is a corporation.

The City of Washington is a corporation.

The City of London is a corporation

and

The Vatican city is a corporation.

All theses are part of a larger corporation known as the 13 families.


These 13 families are members of secret societies, one being freemasons.


.

[boots]

You are either unable to read or just don't like to because you're wrong.

I refer you to post #68 and my response to hey_jude

Mike

Looks like you can't comprehend the fact that the queen has to ask permission to enter the CITY OF LONDON.

The Queen has to ask the permission of the Lord Mayor for the passage of troops through the City, AS WELL.

Can't get your head around the fact that The city of London answers not to the queen or the UK but to it's own agenda. Because it is a financial center of banking which is controlled by the Rothchilds.

Wake up Martin.

.

[boots]

Cobblers.

Gee that was an intelligent answer.:rolleyes:

Everything is commerce Law GS and is controlled by corporations.

You are chattel for a corporation, called the UK. As is everyone in the UK.


The world is controlled by money as stated by Mayer Amschel Rothchilds.

"Give me control of a nation's money
and I care not who makes the laws."

So he couldn't give a fuck about the queen and what she stands for, because he rules through the power of money.

.

[boots]

The only real way to defeat the NWO and stop the fscist malaise that is creeping across our earth is to address the root cause of the problem. To cut the head off the snake. And that problem is the global monetary system and those who control it because the meglomanics who are creating this mayhem in the world are, and have always been the criminal banking elite consisting of families such as the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds and this can be amply proven. These people have trampled on the entire human race, they have sold us out, in more ways than you may ever believe. The Rothschild family alone has managed to horde over one half of the earths entire wealth in the last 300 years by means of lies and deception and has the blood of quite literally millions on the hands. The goal of these elite international criminals is to microchip the entire population of earth and to eliminate those who rests to total control over humanity can be placed in their hands. These are extremely sick and ruthless people who care nothing for anyone who is not part of their club.


So these people dont even care about Freemasons.

"Do not believe anything until it has been officially denied."
- Claud Cockburn

.

[grandsecretary]

A municipal authority is a corporation.

The City of Washington is a corporation.

The City of London is a corporation

and

The Vatican city is a corporation.

All theses are part of a larger corporation known as the 13 families.


These 13 families are members of secret societies, one being freemasons.


.

Evidence? - No. The Pope is a Monarch and has sole "control" of The Vatican State. The Pope is not a secret society. For goodness sake!

[mike martin]

Looks like you can't comprehend the fact that the queen has to ask permission to enter the CITY OF LONDON.

The Queen has to ask the permission of the Lord Mayor for the passage of troops through the City, AS WELL.

Can't get your head around the fact that The city of London answers not to the queen or the UK but to it's own agenda. Because it is a financial center of banking which is controlled by the Rothchilds.

Wake up Martin. .

Talk about stones and glass houses! This response made me laugh loads in fact it's so funny that I'm not even going to bother

Mike

[grandsecretary]

Talk about stones and glass houses! This response made me laugh loads in fact it's so funny that I'm not even going to bother

Mike

Every year, as a City Liveryman, I take part in the vote for The Lord Mayor of London. The Lord Mayor is a member of the City of London's governing body, The Mayor and Commonalty and Citizens of the City of London. One of his main duties is head of the Commission of Lieutenancy, which represents the Sovereign in the City of London, which is why she ceremonially asks his permission to enter the City.

[thelonious]

Well I have had a look and I cannot find any record that Karl Marx, Leon Trotsky or Vladimir Lenin were Freemasons. I would welcome any proof.

None of those guys were Masons, and in fact, Freemasonry was banned in the Soviet Union after the Bolshevik Revolution. Communists have always considered Freemasonry to be a bourgeouis institution, and therefore unmarxist.

Leon Trotsky wrote that he had studied Freemasonry in his youth and found it interesting, but had to reject it due to his own atheism. Neither Marx nor Lenin ever mentioned Freemasonry in their writings. Stalin issued several edicts against it, and closed the Lodges. The Grand Lodge of Russia was not allowed to re-form until after the disintegration of the USSR.

It should be pointed out, however, that many of the leaders of the February Revolution in 1917 were Masons, including Kerensky. These were the people who were overthrown by the Communists, and is probably the reason that Stalin was such a fervent anti-Mason.

[dawnismygoddess]

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/hoovershrine.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/JEdgarHoover.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/jedgar-hoover.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/JEdgarHooverMasonicFDC1.jpg

[grandsecretary]

None of those guys were Masons, and in fact, Freemasonry was banned in the Soviet Union after the Bolshevik Revolution. Communists have always considered Freemasonry to be a bourgeouis institution, and therefore unmarxist.

Leon Trotsky wrote that he had studied Freemasonry in his youth and found it interesting, but had to reject it due to his own atheism. Neither Marx nor Lenin ever mentioned Freemasonry in their writings. Stalin issued several edicts against it, and closed the Lodges. The Grand Lodge of Russia was not allowed to re-form until after the disintegration of the USSR.

It should be pointed out, however, that many of the leaders of the February Revolution in 1917 were Masons, including Kerensky. These were the people who were overthrown by the Communists, and is probably the reason that Stalin was such a fervent anti-Mason.

And that is the information that I have to hand as well. Leon Trotsky was supplied with a used notebook whilst in prison which contained notes made by a Mason. This kindled his interest in the subject.

[grandsecretary]

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/hoovershrine.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/JEdgarHoover.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/jedgar-hoover.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/JEdgarHooverMasonicFDC1.jpg

And your point is?

[dawnismygoddess]

The thread had little "color"

Everyone talking about Hoover with nary a photo to be seen of him, etc.

Satisfied?

[kenny_bubb]

The point?

J Edgar Hoover was an uncomfortable wearer of hats, and was far more comfortable sat casually on a desk.

Keep up!

[dawnismygoddess]

What is even more interesting, is that Hoover never married, in a time when men were supposed to get married. Many have speculated that he was gay.


"Personally, J. Edgar Hoover described Clyde Tolson as his alter ego: they worked closely in day time, ate their meals together, and socialized in night clubs and went on holiday together. Their close relationship is cited as evidence of homosexuality, though FBI employees who knew them, such as Felt, claim that the relationship was merely fraternal. FBI agents report that Tolson was picked-up first and dropped-off last by the government car transporting Director Hoover.

When J. Edgar Hoover died, Clyde Tolson inherited his estate of some USD $551,000 and moved into his house; he accepted the U.S. flag draped on Hoover's coffin. Tolson's grave is a few yards from Hoover's grave in the Congressional Cemetery."


Hoover and Tolson:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/edgar_and_clyde.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/jhoover_in_persuit-1.jpg

[thelonious]

What is even more interesting, is that Hoover never married, in a time when men were supposed to get married. Many have speculated that he was gay.

He was also supposedly a cross-dresser.

Whatever the truth of his sexuality, he was certainly paranoid. Like McCarthy, he seemed to believe that everybody and their grandmothers were secret Communists or Communist sympathizers. He was so obsessed with his "Red Scare" delusion that he even denied the existence of the Mafia, believing it to be a Communist plot.

When he received the Grand Cross of the Court of Honour from the Supreme Council 33° of the Scottish Rite of Masonry, he gave a speech which hardly even mentioned Masonry, while rattling on and ranting about commies the whole time.

The guy, IMHO, was a complete lunatic.

[dawnismygoddess]

I agree. And to think that this crazy was in charge of the FBI for 37 years! (1935 - 1972). FBI directors are now limited to 10 year terms.

He had no life. What a freak.

I mean, just look at this guy:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/Hoover-JEdgar-LOC.jpg

Not to mention his treatment of Hollywood. Who knows what great films were never made because of this fruitcake...

[grandsecretary]

[QUOTE=dawnismygoddess;717556]What is even more interesting, is that Hoover never married, in a time when men were supposed to get married. Many have speculated that he was gay.

Not speculation, he was a homosexual. He was also a veryintelligent and powerful man, using secret files and blackmail to get his own way, and to maintain his position. Not mad, bad.

[dawnismygoddess]

Yes, and didn't he target homosexuals too?

This could only mean one thing - he had mental issues.

[ayomide]

He had no life. What a freak.

I mean, just look at this guy:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/Hoover-JEdgar-LOC.jpg



Can I be superficial and brutal pretty please???

That's the type of man who you look at and you just wanna douse with 50c gasoline - take a cheap family favourite match and set him alight and watch him burn. So I'll wait until Oil prices fall lower and I'll get my 50c gasoline maybe kereosene if I seduce pilot - it's free :D Too bad he's dead - I love me a freak!

[grandsecretary]

Yes, and didn't he target homosexuals too?

This could only mean one thing - he had mental issues.

Yes, sadly, he was severely troubled by his sexuality.

[grandsecretary]

Can I be superficial and brutal pretty please???

That's the type of man who you look at and you just wanna douse with 50c gasoline - take a cheap family favourite match and set him alight and watch him burn. So I'll wait until Oil prices fall lower and I'll get my 50c gasoline maybe kereosene if I seduce pilot - it's free :D Too bad he's dead - I love me a freak!

I do not think that we should judge people on looks. That is a superficial judgement that causes so many problems with self esteem.

Please judge people by what they say, how they lead their lives, and what they do. On balance, IMHO, this man was not a good role model.

[boots]

Evidence? - No. The Pope is a Monarch and has sole "control" of The Vatican State. The Pope is not a secret society. For goodness sake!


You fail to read what is posted GS. Who said the pope was a secret society??

I say the city of London (A corporation) Washington DC and Vatican City are corporations and have been infiltrated by the Illuminati families. One of those being the Rothchilds, who happen to be in control of the banking systems and the financial center of the world is the city of London. Freemasonary is one of those secret societies.



.

[boots]

Talk about stones and glass houses! This response made me laugh loads in fact it's so funny that I'm not even going to bother

Mike

How pompous of you:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by boots http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=716597#post716597)
Looks like you can't comprehend the fact that the queen has to ask permission to enter the CITY OF LONDON.

The Queen has to ask the permission of the Lord Mayor for the passage of troops through the City, AS WELL.

Can't get your head around the fact that The city of London answers not to the queen or the UK but to it's own agenda. Because it is a financial center of banking which is controlled by the Rothchilds.

Wake up Martin. .



Can't get your head around this fact.

Why is that? It's a FACT that freemasons are part of the agenda to a NWO and you are aiding the agenda Mike Martin.

Here is something you might learn if you have the intelligence.

http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Rothschild.htm


1773: Amschel Mayer Rothschild born, the first of Mayer Amschel Rothschild’s sons. He like all his brothers who follow him, will enter the family business at the age of 12.
1774: Salomon Mayer Rothschild born.
1776: Adam Weishaupt officially completes his organisation of the Illuminati on May 1 of this year. The purpose of the Illuminati is to divide the goyim (all non-Jews) through political, economic, social, and religious means. The opposing sides were to be armed and incidents were to be provided in order for them to: fight amongst themselves; destroy national governments; destroy religious institutions; and eventually destroy each other.
Weishaupt soon infiltrates the Continental Order of Freemasons with this Illuminati doctrine and establishes lodges of the Grand Orient to be their secret headquarters. This was all under the orders and finance of Mayer Amschel Rothschild and the concept has spread and is followed within Masonic Lodges worldwide to the present day.



YOU ARE BEING USED.


.

[keystone]

I was enjoying this thread until I saw the reference to DBS. :(

[boots]

I was enjoying this thread until I saw the reference to DBS. :(

Don't get hung up on the person. Sometimes the info is what is important.


http://www.thecrowhouse.com/home.html


.

[grandsecretary]

You fail to read what is posted GS. Who said the pope was a secret society??

I say the city of London (A corporation) Washington DC and Vatican City are corporations and have been infiltrated by the Illuminati families. One of those being the Rothchilds, who happen to be in control of the banking systems and the financial center of the world is the city of London. Freemasonary is one of those secret societies.



.

The Pope is in sole charge and total control of the Vatican City, including the banking system and its finances, as an all powerful Monarch. He is neither Corporation, nor Freemason is he?

[boots]

The Pope is in sole charge and total control of the Vatican City, including the banking system and its finances, as an all powerful Monarch. He is neither Corporation, nor Freemason is he?

SO.

Cant you comprehend properly.

The Illuminati have infiltrated all parts of society. Including freemasonary.

You are a slave GS a corporate entity.

Burke.. The Vatican city is run like a corporation because it is one.:rolleyes:


Go and read up on commercial Law/Contract law. Then get back to me.

.

[dawnismygoddess]

...nor Freemason is he?

Care to explain why he shakes hands like one?


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/21112.jpg

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/7578568.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/pope2-1.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/handshakes.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/audience_02b-1.jpg

[grandsecretary]

Care to explain why he shakes hands like one?


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/21112.jpg

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/7578568.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/pope2-1.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/handshakes.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/audience_02b-1.jpg

Nothing to explain. None of these are Masonic tokens "handshakes" and Cardinal Ratzinger is vehemently anti-Mason. It is a major problem for us who are engaged in direct discussions with the Holy See on this very difficult issue.

Former Popes have been Masons, but not this one I can assure you.

[boots]

Nothing to explain. None of these are Masonic tokens "handshakes" and Cardinal Ratzinger is vehemently anti-Mason. It is a major problem for us who are engaged in direct discussions with the Holy See on this very difficult issue.

Post where he state's this.

Prove that YOU are in direct discussions. I dont believe it.

BTW That is a masonic handshake.

.

[localidiot]

Here is Ratzingers letter:
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html

And on what basis do you judge these to be masonic handshakes?

[dawnismygoddess]

Nothing to explain. None of these are Masonic tokens "handshakes"...

Whatever you say big guy....


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/MasonicHandshake2-1.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/MasonicHandshake3-1.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/handshake125yearsnk7.jpg

[grandsecretary]

Here is Ratzingers letter:
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html

And on what basis do you judge these to be masonic handshakes?

This is the first instance where I cannot go into detail because of Masonic secrecy but it is VERY clear that these are NOT masonic tokens (handshakes). If they were I would tell you. As I have said earlier, Cardinal Ratzinger is DEFINITELY not a Freemason.

If you would like a comprehesive list of Masonic Popes then that information is available. A book entitled "A True History of Catholics and Masons" has just been sent to the publishers. I can extract the information if there is general interest.

[grandsecretary]

Whatever you say big guy....


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/MasonicHandshake2-1.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/MasonicHandshake3-1.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/handshake125yearsnk7.jpg

The handshakes are not the same, particularly the first two close up Pope handshakes, simply similar but NOT Masonic. The ones being given by some of the Masons are "sloppy" and "lazy" tokens (handshakes). You are not a Mason, you will either have to accept my word for it, or not. I have tried to educate you on this subject as far as I am able.

I am negotiating various issues with the Vatican at this very moment. The fact that Cardinal Ratzinger is so anti-Mason is causing me great difficulties. I KNOW. You are guessing. I have offered you concrete factual information.

Read the book when it is published. Very good value and available from all good bookshops!

[boots]

The handshakes are not the same, particularly the first two close up Pope handshakes, simply similar but NOT Masonic. The ones being given by some of the Masons are "sloppy" and "lazy" tokens (handshakes). You are not a Mason, you will either have to accept my word for it, or not. I have tried to educate you on this subject as far as I am able.

I am negitatiing various issues with the vatican at this very moment. The fact that Cardinal Ratzinger is so anti-Mason is causing me great difficulties. I KNOW. You are guessing. I have offered you concrete factual information.


Yeah right, similar. Just a coincidence.

YOU have not given concrete prove as to those handshakes which also puts into question, the Pope NOT being a closet Mason.

Only poofters give that sort of a wishy washy handshake. Unless you have a secret handshake.

.

[grandsecretary]

Yeah right, similar. Just a coincidence.

YOU have not given concrete prove as to those handshakes which also puts into question, the Pope NOT being a closet Mason.

Only poofters give that sort of a wishy washy handshake. Unless you have a secret handshake.

.

I have not enquired into the state of the current Pope's sexual proclivities, and cannot help you there.

I cannot give you PROOF without revealing to you how to communicate a Masonic token (handshake). I can, however, provide you with information. As I said in my earlier response, I KNOW, you are guessing. I am afraid that you will either have to accept my word for it, or not, as the case may be.

I will not lose sleep over it.

[soulja]

right.. like there's only ONE masonic handshake. :rolleyes:

everyone who has done some research into this will tell you there are many different masonic handshakes/grips. depending on grade of initiation.

there's one where you press the top of your thumb against the space between the first and second knuckle joints. with another it's between the second and third and so on and so forth. then there are other types of handshakes altogether.

the masons on here will deny the obvious as long as they can, after dawn confronted them with handshakes made by masons themselves they will accept that but at the same time deny all the others. it's pretty obvious for everyone to see so i wouldn't take the masons on here with their ''inside knowledge'' all too seriously.

[grandsecretary]

right.. like there's only ONE masonic handshake. :rolleyes:

everyone who has done some research into this will tell you there are many different masonic handshakes/grips. depending on grade of initiation.

there's one where you press the top of your thumb against the space between the first and second knuckle joints. with another it's between the second and third and so on and so forth. then there are other types of handshakes altogether.

the masons on here will deny the obvious as long as they can, after dawn confronted them with handshakes made by masons themselves they will accept that but at the same time deny all the others. it's pretty obvious for everyone to see so i wouldn't take the masons on here with their ''inside knowledge'' all too seriously.

I have not denied anything. Denying something is lying about a known fact isn't it? The FACT here is that the photographs of these handshakes (the Pope ones) are NOT masonic. That is NOT a denial. It is a fact. I KNOW, you do not know.

Now, a question for you. Why would I deny a Masonic handshake in respect of Ratzinger, who is no friend of mine I can assure you, and then offer to supply a comprehesive list of Masonic Popes, damaging inside information that the Vatican will not like?

Please use the brain that God gave you.

[druggalo]

prolly got disembowled

[disconnex]

I have not denied anything. Denying something is lying about a known fact isn't it?

No, to deny you refuse to admit. You just did that a post or two ago.

[grandsecretary]

No, to deny you refuse to admit. You just did that a post or two ago.

Why should I "admit" something that is clearly not true? Presumably because the new self-appointed world dictator, disconnex, says so?

I KNOW, you do not. In this case I am the two eyed man.

[disconnex]

Why should I "admit" something that is clearly not true? Presumably because the new self-appointed world dictator, disconnex, says so?

I KNOW, you do not. In this case I am the two eyed man.

Relax, breathe, it will be ok. You did say this did you not?


I cannot give you PROOF without revealing to you how to communicate a Masonic token (handshake).

Simply put, you are denying the PROOF. You know the proof, you will not grant us the proof, therfore you are denying.

Use your two eyes for that.

[grandsecretary]

Relax, breathe, it will be ok. You did say this did you not?



Simply put, you are denying the PROOF. You know the proof, you will not grant us the proof, therfore you are denying.

Use your two eyes for that.


No, I am afraid that this will NOT do, simply or otherwise.

1) The proof is there but I am not denying IT, the proof.

2) I am refusing to reveal the proof. There is a massive difference.

3) I will put it simply also, so that there can be NO misunderstanding here:

The proof that they are NOT Masonic handshakes is there, clearly there for anyone with a minimal knowledge of Freemasonry, which you do not have.

I am not denying THE PROOF.

I am denying you the information to which you are not entitled.

Now please do not try to put words in my mouth. I have a reasonable facility for the Queen's English. Should I need your assistance, I will ask you for it.

[soulja]

I have not denied anything. Denying something is lying about a known fact isn't it? The FACT here is that the photographs of these handshakes (the Pope ones) are NOT masonic. That is NOT a denial. It is a fact. I KNOW, you do not know.

a FACT ? lol since when is YOUR opinion enough to establish a fact ?
look man, you might be the grandsecretary of your funny lodge but on here your not special at all.

people have posted pictures (and there are endless more) of very odd handshakes repeatedly given by people in positions of power, some of them are even known masons, and all you have to counter this obvious pattern is your ''but...but..i'm the GS and i KNOW and you don't. that's a FACT!'' line ?

seriously that's just ridiculous, even more so when you finish your pompous post with advicing me to use my brain.

you say you know the pope's handshake as shown on the pics dawn posted is not masonic. what is it then ? just some random handshake ? pure coincidence ? or maybe from some other secret society ?

one more question Mister Grand Secretary, is there more than just one masonic handshake ? if yes, how many ?


Now, a question for you. Why would I deny a Masonic handshake in respect of Ratzinger, who is no friend of mine I can assure you, and then offer to supply a comprehesive list of Masonic Popes, damaging inside information that the Vatican will not like?

Please use the brain that God gave you.

because you deny everything that can't be proven a 100 percent and thus can't be denied anymore.

you'll do everything you can to keep the secrets of your brotherhood a secret. all the while acting like you come here simply to clear up misconceptions we delusional conspiracy theorists have about masonry.
this is from such importance to you that you will log on here almost everyday to ''help us out''

in my view it's an epic fail. keep trying though..

[grandsecretary]

a FACT ? lol since when is YOUR opinion enough to establish a fact ?
look man, you might be the grandsecretary of your funny lodge but on here your not special at all.

people have posted pictures (and there are endless more) of very odd handshakes repeatedly given by people in positions of power, some of them are even known masons, and all you have to counter this obvious pattern is your ''but...but..i'm the GS and i KNOW and you don't. that's a FACT!'' line ?

seriously that's just ridiculous, even more so when you finish your pompous post with advicing me to use my brain.

you say you know the pope's handshake as shown on the pics dawn posted is not masonic. what is it then ? just some random handshake ? pure coincidence ? or maybe from some other secret society ?

one more question Mister Grand Secretary, is there more than just one masonic handshake ? if yes, how many ?



because you deny everything that can't be proven a 100 percent and thus can't be denied anymore.

you'll do everything you can to keep the secrets of your brotherhood a secret. all the while acting like you come here simply to clear up misconceptions we delusional conspiracy theorists have about masonry.
this is from such importance to you that you will log on here almost everyday to ''help us out''

in my view it's an epic fail. keep trying though..

In the first place there is no such thing as a Masonic handshake. It is called a token, and it has a specific purpose.

To have any meaning at all, a token cannot be used in isolation even if it is done properly. It must be exchanged firstly with another Freemason with similar knowledge, in a particular manner, and which includes the use of a secret sign or signs, a password or passwords. All three are required.

I have made a study of Masonic rituals, over a period of nearly 30 years (four years before you were born), and as a part of my job/s, over the past nine years. I also have access to, and am part of (Secretary to) a Committee of experts on the subject, including the Senior Professor in Medieval History at one of our leading Universities, and a Senior Professor of Theology at another leading University who also usually has access to The Vatican Library (closed at the moment for renovation).

You answered your own question. In this case, random handshakes.

One of these days you will realise that you have been given good information. Perhaps at that time you will use just two words. "Thank you."

Thank you for your observations.

PS: sorry, I did not answer your question. So far we have records of well over 1,300 Masonic or quasi-Masonic signs, tokens and words.

[arten]

Are the guys in the photos Masons? If so I put it to you they are shaking hands and therefore they are Masonic handshakes.
In fact a strange thing happened to myself a while back, I bumped into an ex public school boy who I had met the year before. We said hello and shook hands and he took me aback lol when he said Sorry I am not a Mason.
After recovering I said to him I am not a Mason either, he said so what was with the Mason handshake and I was totally bemused because I am not a Mason and would not join such an organisation.
I had a real hard job convincing this guy I was not a Mason. Now how did that happen? Well my only explanation is this, sevveral months before this incident I was looking at Photo's of alleged Masonic handshakes on this site.
Knowing how the subconscious mind works I must have subconsciously memorised these handshakes and then when shaking hands, used a masonic handshake. Surreal but a true story so the Masons here are for me not being truthful they are trying to play the old game of reverse psychology.

[grandsecretary]

Are the guys in the photos Masons? If so I put it to you they are shaking hands and therefore they are Masonic handshakes.
In fact a strange thing happened to myself a while back, I bumped into an ex public school boy who I had met the year before. We said hello and shook hands and he took me aback lol when he said Sorry I am not a Mason.
After recovering I said to him I am not a Mason either, he said so what was with the Mason handshake and I was totally bemused because I am not a Mason and would not join such an organisation.
I had a real hard job convincing this guy I was not a Mason. Now how did that happen? Well my only explanation is this, sevveral months before this incident I was looking at Photo's of alleged Masonic handshakes on this site.
Knowing how the subconscious mind works I must have subconsciously memorised these handshakes and then when shaking hands, used a masonic handshake. Surreal but a true story so the Masons here are for me not being truthful they are trying to play the old game of reverse psychology.

See my response above. We are discussing the Pope's handshakes here, not the pictures of the Masons.

Obviously neither of you knew what you were doing and it shows how random handshakes are a reality.

I am not "Masons here", I am Peter Clatworthy (grandsecretary). I do not speak for anyone else except myself and officially on behalf of The Grand Lodge of All England.

[disconnex]

No, I am afraid that this will NOT do, simply or otherwise.

1) The proof is there but I am not denying IT, the proof.

2) I am refusing to reveal the proof. There is a massive difference.

And hence we have denial...

3) I will put it simply also, so that there can be NO misunderstanding here:

The proof that they are NOT Masonic handshakes is there, clearly there for anyone with a minimal knowledge of Freemasonry, which you do not have.

I am not denying THE PROOF.

I am denying you the information to which you are not entitled.

Now please do not try to put words in my mouth. I have a reasonable facility for the Queen's English. Should I need your assistance, I will ask you for it.

I never said that those pictures were proof, now did I. I did say however that you, posess the proof. And by your own admission, deny us that proof. So this all becomes a moot point. Untill you are going to produce the proof, stop arguing about it.

[soulja]

Obviously neither of you knew what you were doing and it shows how random handshakes are a reality.

of course random handshakes are a reality. i think noone would argue with that.

countless pictures of people in power who use only a small variety of handshakes all the time does stretch the random explanation quite a bit though.

never mind seeing the same rather odd looking handshakes so often one could think they are all part of some sort of secret brotherhood. ;)

[grandsecretary]

of course random handshakes are a reality. i think noone would argue with that.

countless pictures of people in power who use only a small variety of handshakes all the time does stretch the random explanation quite a bit though.

never mind seeing the same rather odd looking handshakes so often one could think they are all part of some sort of secret brotherhood. ;)

What is odd about those Papal handshakes? To a normally unbiased person, they are what they are, handshakes. Cardinal Ratzinger is the worlds leading opponent of Freemasonry.

If anyone wants a comprehensive list of Masonic Cardinals and Popes, and a fulsome description of the Vatican's attitude towards secret societies over the years (it has changed from time to time), then read the book that is coming out later this year.

[soulja]

What is odd about those Papal handshakes? To a normally unbiased person, they are what they are, handshakes.

oh nothing.. apart from the fact that it looks almost like the masonic one you already admitted to being masonic. that and the many other influental people who have applied the same grip.


Cardinal Ratzinger is the worlds leading opponent of Freemasonry.

yes and Bin laden is enemy number 1 of the CIA. just like Hamas is of Mossad.
the Conservatives are opponents of Labour and the IRA of British Intelligence.

it's called fake dialectics Mister Grand Secretary.


If anyone wants a comprehensive list of Masonic Cardinals and Popes, and a fulsome description of the Vatican's attitude towards secret societies over the years (it has changed from time to time), then read the book that is coming out later this year.

this is already widely known and all available elsewhere too.
but if you send me a free copy of that book i'll prolly read it.

the Vatican is controlled by the same Elite as Freemasonry btw

you know that right ? :D :rolleyes:

[arten]

See my response above. We are discussing the Pope's handshakes here, not the pictures of the Masons.

Obviously neither of you knew what you were doing and it shows how random handshakes are a reality.

I am not "Masons here", I am Peter Clatworthy (grandsecretary). I do not speak for anyone else except myself and officially on behalf of The Grand Lodge of All England.

Well thanks for confirmation that I am not a Mason because whether you know it or not you are serving evil.

Secondly, your next statment is an Oxymoron you claim not to be a Mason or are you claiming not to speak on their behalf. Then you tell us your name and title, claiming to speak only on your behalf and officially on behalf ot the grand lodge. Therefore you are claiming to speak for the Masons in the whole of England. Or are we at crosswires here?

[grandsecretary]

Well thanks for confirmation that I am not a Mason because whether you know it or not you are serving evil.

Secondly, your next statment is an Oxymoron you claim not to be a Mason or are you claiming not to speak on their behalf. Then you tell us your name and title, claiming to speak only on your behalf and officially on behalf ot the grand lodge. Therefore you are claiming to speak for the Masons in the whole of England. Or are we at crosswires here?

No it is not an oxymoron at all. What I said was that I speak for myself and my Grand Lodge. I will not be lumped in with what you consider to be "Masons here" because many "Masons here" are not our "Masons here".

Freemasonry is NOT one lumpen organisation.

[mike martin]

Looks like you can't comprehend the fact that the queen has to ask permission to enter the CITY OF LONDON.

The Queen has to ask the permission of the Lord Mayor for the passage of troops through the City, AS WELL.

Can't get your head around the fact that The city of London answers not to the queen or the UK but to it's own agenda. Because it is a financial center of banking which is controlled by the Rothchilds.

Wake up Martin..

You're a bit of a berk aren't you?

I'll repost the answer I gave earlier as you obviously didn't bother to read it.



Halsbury's Laws of England: Local Government says this about the relationship between the Lord Mayor of the City of London (not the Mayor of Greater London) and the Queen:

By ancient custom the Lord Mayor tenders the City Sword to the Sovereign when she enters the City on state occasions, in token acknowledgement of her overriding authority. The Sovereign touches the sword and, by that gesture, returns it to the Lord Mayor with implied permission to carry it before her whilst she is in the City.

Also by ancient custom the permission of the Lord Mayor is sought for the passage of troops through the City, and he receives quarterly, under the Sovereign's sign manual, the password of the Tower of London. As spokesman for the citizens, he is entitled to the right of special access to the Sovereign.

The only place HM the Queen has to ask permission to enter is the Chamber of the House of Commons. To avoid the embarrassment of the Monarch doing so, it is traditional for the Queen to send Black Rod to summon the Commons to the House of Lords.

Now just to help you here I'll explain it for you.

IF the Queen had to ask for permission from the Lord Mayor, in other words he had authority over her, he would not have to give her his symbol of power (that's the sword) and be given permission to carry it in front of her.

Also although the Queen is the Head of State, she has no power over the movement of troops, that power is held by Parliament.

However, due to an unfortunate action of a previous Monarch and because the Monarchy was restored by Parliament after he was executed, she (despite being the Queen) must ask permission to enter the Chamber of the House of Commons.

Does that help you at all?

Mike

[arten]

No it is not an oxymoron at all. What I said was that I speak for myself and my Grand Lodge. I will not be lumped in with what you consider to be "Masons here" because many "Masons here" are not our "Masons here".

Freemasonry is NOT one lumpen organisation.

If you made your post more clear we would not need to ask for clarification.

So you talk for your own lodge and claim that their is no general agreement amongst Masons.

Is that a fair summation of your stance Peter?

[grandsecretary]

If you made your post more clear we would not need to ask for clarification.

So you talk for your own lodge and claim that their is no general agreement amongst Masons.

Is that a fair summation of your stance Peter?

It is a very fair summation. I speak for myself, and officially on behalf of The Grand Lodge of All England.

There is no general agreement amongst Masons, far from it. In fact there is considerable animosity between Grand Lodges which has been going on for 300 years.

Please read again the disclaimer at the bottom of all of my postings.

[arten]

Hi Peter
I do apologise I never saw your discalimer; but thanks for pointing that out.
And maybe I have been to confrontational and made an asinine comment, which I now withdraw, i.e that all Masons are evil. That is obviously nonsense even I know that. I would say that being an ex Soldier it is very similar in some respects, we all join because we think we are going to make a positive differnce to the world.
However, Thanks to people like David Icke there is an Awakening and now I am seeing things as they really are, we need to wake up.

[mike martin]

right.. like there's only ONE masonic handshake. :rolleyes:
I don't think anyone actually said that.

everyone who has done some research into this will tell you there are many different masonic handshakes/grips. depending on grade of initiation.
Quite right there are several "grips" or "tokens", they are not actually "shakes".

there's one where you press the top of your thumb against the space between the first and second knuckle joints. with another it's between the second and third and so on and so forth. then there are other types of handshakes altogether.
Well sort of! However as I've given my word not to reveal them except to other Masons I can't explain to you what you've got wrong.

the masons on here will deny the obvious as long as they can, after dawn confronted them with handshakes made by masons themselves they will accept that but at the same time deny all the others. it's pretty obvious for everyone to see so i wouldn't take the masons on here with their ''inside knowledge'' all too seriously.
Actually you are wrong to say that and bearing in mind what I wrote above, it should be obvious why actual Masonic "tokens" would not be photographed. We have given our word not to reveal the signs, tokens and words which are the only bit of Freemasonry which is "secret".

However the "tokens" alone do not prove us to Masons, that's why we have "signs", "tokens" and "words". Even if I received a grip similar to a Masonic one I would not assume the person is a Mason, I would then ask him if he is a Mason or "on the square".

Mike

[mike martin]

It is a very fair summation. I speak for myself, and officially on behalf of The Grand Lodge of All England.

Just to clarify the difference (aside from Grand Lodges) between Peter and myself.

I speak only for myself as someone who has been a Freemason for 15 years now and knows quite a bit about it. As I am not an official of my Grand Lodge I do not speak for it.

Mike

[mike martin]

because whether you know it or not you are serving evil.

Actually I know I'm not serving evil at all! Your statement is prejudiced and based only on what you think you know.

Mike

[grandsecretary]

Hi Peter
I do apologise I never saw your discalimer; but thanks for pointing that out.
And maybe I have been to confrontational and made an asinine comment, which I now withdraw, i.e that all Masons are evil. That is obviously nonsense even I know that. I would say that being an ex Soldier it is very similar in some respects, we all join because we think we are going to make a positive differnce to the world.
However, Thanks to people like David Icke there is an Awakening and now I am seeing things as they really are, we need to wake up.

Thank you.

[soulja]

Just to clarify the difference (aside from Grand Lodges) between Peter and myself.

I speak only for myself as someone who has been a Freemason for 15 years now and knows quite a bit about it. As I am not an official of my Grand Lodge I do not speak for it.

Mike

just out of interest what degree do you hold ?

[grandsecretary]

I don't think anyone actually said that.


Quite right there are several "grips" or "tokens", they are not actually "shakes".


Well sort of! However as I've given my word not to reveal them except to other Masons I can't explain to you what you've got wrong.


Actually you are wrong to say that and bearing in mind what I wrote above, it should be obvious why actual Masonic "tokens" would not be photographed. We have given our word not to reveal the signs, tokens and words which are the only bit of Freemasonry which is "secret".

However the "tokens" alone do not prove us to Masons, that's why we have "signs", "tokens" and "words". Even if I received a grip similar to a Masonic one I would not assume the person is a Mason, I would then ask him if he is a Mason or "on the square".

Mike

And although Mike and I are NOT from the same traditions of Freemasonry, he has now confirmed what I have said. A handshake is not a suitable or effective way of communicating that one is a Freemason.

There is no such thing as a "Masonic handshake".

Just a point of clarification, The Grand Lodge of All England considers the following to be Masonic secrets: Masonic ritual, modes of recognition, and the administrative proceedings of the Craft, not just modes of recognition as with the UGLE (Mike's Grand Lodge).

[soulja]

And although Mike and I are NOT from the same traditions of Freemasonry, he has now confirmed what I have said. A handshake is not a suitable or effective way of communicating that one is a Freemason.

a freemason confirms the version of another freemason.

of course that settles it..



There is no such thing as a "Masonic handshake".

handshake, grip or token - it's just semantics really.

[thelonious]

handshake, grip or token - it's just semantics really.

Maybe so, but the main point is this: Masonic "grips" (or handshakes or whatever) have ritualistic importance to Masons, but are not used outside of ritual. Outside the Lodge, Masons shake hands just like everybody else.

[arten]

Actually I know I'm not serving evil at all! Your statement is prejudiced and based only on what you think you know.

Mike

Hi Mike
Sorry but I just withdrew that remark. Being an ex British soldier, I don't think we would consciously serve evil, the problem is most of us are unconscious.
In other words we are being tricked by those at the top of the pyramid and that for me is relly sad.

[grandsecretary]

a freemason confirms the version of another freemason.

of course that settles it..




handshake, grip or token - it's just semantics really.

You have completely missed the point, I suspect deliberately.

[soulja]

Maybe so, but the main point is this: Masonic "grips" (or handshakes or whatever) have ritualistic importance to Masons, but are not used outside of ritual. Outside the Lodge, Masons shake hands just like everybody else.

not outside the lodge ?
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/Anitababe/Masons/dok_crop.jpg


Masons shake hands just like everybody else.

if you mean with everybody else these people here

http://cdnl3.livevideo.com/image/78/245678/318093_pm.jpg
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/ancientsoul82/hs/popeblairmasonhandshakenq1.png
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z242/sjashideout/hideout2/lawyersdinner.jpg
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/ancientsoul82/hs/queen-elizabeth-king-of-tonga-7.jpg

then i agree, but if you mean ''ordinary'' people like the ones i know (friends, work) then let me point out that i never see them shake hands like this.

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/SharonPowell.jpg
http://www.wfg-gk.de/sverschwoerbild140.jpg
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40118000/jpg/_40118568_handshake203.jpg
http://ambassadors.net/archives/issue14/chirac_mugabe.jpg

the examples are endless.. plus they are done infront of the photographers and printed in news papers, shown in news flashes etc.. why ?
because they are signals to the other initiates. i think that's pretty obvious but i understand why you guys will never admit it because it's contrary to pretty much every claim you have made on the subject.

- never outside the lodge
- never infront of cameras (because then the secret would be out :rolleyes:)
- and anyway all those examples don't show masonic grips but are every day random handshakes. any similarities are pure coincidence.

sure..

[grandsecretary]

not outside the lodge ?
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/Anitababe/Masons/dok_crop.jpg



if you mean with everybody else these people here

http://cdnl3.livevideo.com/image/78/245678/318093_pm.jpg
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/ancientsoul82/hs/popeblairmasonhandshakenq1.png
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z242/sjashideout/hideout2/lawyersdinner.jpg
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/ancientsoul82/hs/queen-elizabeth-king-of-tonga-7.jpg

then i agree, but if you mean ''ordinary'' people like the ones i know (friends, work) then let me point out that i never see them shake hands like this.

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/SharonPowell.jpg
http://www.wfg-gk.de/sverschwoerbild140.jpg
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40118000/jpg/_40118568_handshake203.jpg
http://ambassadors.net/archives/issue14/chirac_mugabe.jpg

the examples are endless.. plus they are done infront of the photographers and printed in news papers, shown in news flashes etc.. why ?
because they are signals to the other initiates. i think that's pretty obvious but i understand why you guys will never admit it because it's contrary to pretty much every claim you have made on the subject.

- never outside the lodge
- never infront of cameras (because then the secret would be out :rolleyes:)
- and anyway all those examples don't show masonic grips but are every day random handshakes. any similarities are pure coincidence.

sure..

The photographs above are a mixture of one or two Masons but a majority of non-Masons. For instance, Tony Blair is not, and never has been a Freemason IMHO God forbid!

"Never outside the Lodge".

"Never" is a word that I could not possibly support in this context. I do not agree entirely with thelonius on this one. I have stated in other threads that modes of recognition are widely misused, and it is a modern curse. I do not approve of using Masonic signs tokens and words outside of the Masonic Lodge. It does happen and much too frequently.

Here I am responding to a specific set of photographs concerning the Pope. Those photographs are not Masonic tokens (handshakes).

[soulja]

The photographs above are a mixture of one or two Masons but a majority of non-Masons.

finally we're getting somewhere, it would be helpful though if you could point out who applied a masonic grip and who didn't i.e who is a mason and who isn't.


For instance, Tony Blair is not, and never has been a Freemason IMHO God forbid!

i heard he's a royal arch mason.


"Never outside the Lodge".

"Never" is a word that I could not possibole support in this context. I have stated in other threads that modes of recognition are widely misused, and it is a modern curse. Here I am responding to a specific set of photographs concerning the Pope.

ok..fair enough.. but like i pointed out in a previous post it's hard to believe you guys when you make claims in a very convincing/confident manner wich later turn out to be wrong.

can you see how such behaviour damages the credibility of you masons ?

regarding the vatican, look another coincidence !
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/MasonicHandshake2-1.jpghttp://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c374/bomshiva/pope2.jpg

[grandsecretary]

OK.

Picture 1) The Duke of Kent. Possibly Masonic but in the context of a Lodge (see the plaque in the picture)

Picture 2) The Pope and Tony Blair. Definitely NOT Masonic. neother of them are Masons.

Picture 3) Toastmaster and the Sikh gentleman. Possibly, and also possibly in a Masonic context. No way of knowing in this instance.

Picture 4) The Queen and the Al Fayed lookalike (I am sorry but I do not recognise the gentleman). Definitely NOT Masonic. The Queen is not a Mason.

Picture 5) Colin Powell and Shimon Perez. Not sure who is or who is not a Mason here but the token (handshake) is NOT Masonic.

Picture 6) Chirac and Angel Merkel. Chirac is a Mason, Merkel is not a Mason. The token (Handshake) is not Masonic.

Picture 7) Jack Straw and Mugabe. Straw is not a Mason. I don't know about Mugabe. I do not put anything past him. Not a Masonic token (handshake)

Picture 8) Mugabe and Chirac. IMHO not a Masonic token (handshake).

That is my honest opinion on this set of photographs.

[lightgiver]

OK.

Picture 1) The Duke of Kent. Possibly Masonic but in the context of a Lodge (see the plaque in the picture)

Picture 2) The Pope and Tony Blair. Definitely NOT Masonic. neother of them are Masons.

Picture 3) Toastmaster and the Sikh gentleman. Possibly, and also possibly in a Masonic context. No way of knowing in this instance.

Picture 4) The Queen and the Al Fayed lookalike (I am sorry but I do not recognise the gentleman). Definitely NOT Masonic. The Queen is not a Mason.

Picture 5) Colin Powell and Shimon Perez. Not sure who is or who is not a Mason here but the token (handshake) is NOT Masonic.

Picture 6) Chirac and Angel Merkel. Chirac is a Mason, Merkel is not a Mason. The token (Handshake) is not Masonic.

Picture 7) Jack Straw and Mugabe. Straw is not a Mason. I don't know about Mugabe. I do not put anything past him. Not a Masonic token (handshake)

Picture 8) Mugabe and Chirac. IMHO not a Masonic token (handshake).

That is my honest opinion on this set of photographs.

gs i do not understand this,


Picture 1) The Duke of Kent. Possibly Masonic but in the context of a Lodge (see the plaque in the picture)
i thought he was the main man,


Prince Edward, Duke of Kent
The Duke is the Grand Master of the United Grand Lodge of England, the governing body of Freemasonry in England and Wales.
Royal Knight of the Garter

or someone is telling porkys.

and i would you know if blair or the others are not masons?

[grandsecretary]

finally we're getting somewhere, it would be helpful though if you could point out who applied a masonic grip and who didn't i.e who is a mason and who isn't.



i heard he's a royal arch mason.



ok..fair enough.. but like i pointed out in a previous post it's hard to believe you guys when you make claims in a very convincing/confident manner wich later turn out to be wrong.

can you see how such behaviour damages the credibility of you masons ?

regarding the vatican, look another coincidence !
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/MasonicHandshake2-1.jpghttp://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c374/bomshiva/pope2.jpg

The Vatican photograph is NOT a Masonic token. Pope Paul was definitely NOT a Freemason although he was enthroned by a Masonic Cardinal, Cardinal Baggio.

We can get our information wrong, but that is a mistake not dishonesty. We are not perfect.

Tony Blair is definitely not a freemason, of any kind. It is not possible to be a Royal Arch Mason unless before being a member of the Craft. I have also seen claims that he is a 33 degree Mason. That is also wholly untrue.

[soulja]

OK.

Picture 1) The Duke of Kent. Possibly Masonic but in the context of a Lodge (see the plaque in the picture)

Picture 2) The Pope and Tony Blair. Definitely NOT Masonic. neother of them are Masons.

Picture 3) Toastmaster and the Sikh gentleman. Possibly, and also possibly in a Masonic context. No way of knowing in this instance.

Picture 4) The Queen and the Al Fayed lookalike (I am sorry but I do not recognise the gentleman). Definitely NOT Masonic. The Queen is not a Mason.

Picture 5) Colin Powell and Shimon Perez. Not sure who is or who is not a Mason here but the token (handshake) is NOT Masonic.

Picture 6) Chirac and Angel Merkel. Chirac is a Mason, Merkel is not a Mason. The token (Handshake) is not Masonic.

Picture 7) Jack Straw and Mugabe. Straw is not a Mason. I don't know about Mugabe. I do not put anything past him. Not a Masonic token (handshake)

Picture 8) Mugabe and Chirac. IMHO not a Masonic token (handshake).

That is my honest opinion on this set of photographs.

so apart from one 'maybe' not a single one of those handshakes was masonic ?

lol, i disagree but thx for taking your time to answer.

[grandsecretary]

gs i do not understand this,


Picture 1) The Duke of Kent. Possibly Masonic but in the context of a Lodge (see the plaque in the picture)
i thought he was the main man,

Prince Edward, Duke of Kent
The Duke is the Grand Master of the United Grand Lodge of England, the governing body of Freemasonry in England and Wales.
Royal Knight of the Garter

or someone is telling porkys.

and i would you know if blair or the others are not masons?

I am talking about the token (handshake). It (the token) is not clear. It is possibly (I am happy with probably) a Masonic token (handshake).

Please read what is typed, not what you think you want to see. HRH The Duke of Kent is The Grand Master of The United Grand Lodge of England.

[grandsecretary]

so apart from one 'maybe' not a single one of those handshakes was masonic ?

lol, i disagree but thx for taking your time to answer.

Thank you for your thx. It was much appreciated.

What exactly do you disagree with? I went into great detail. I even told you the name of the Mason who enthroned Pope Paul, even though I was not asked.

[mike martin]

a freemason confirms the version of another freemason.

of course that settles it..

handshake, grip or token - it's just semantics really.
However and as we keep on saying! We are both Freemasons but different kinds of Freemasons.

It is not all one big jolly gang.

Mike

[mike martin]

gs i do not understand this,


Picture 1) The Duke of Kent. Possibly Masonic but in the context of a Lodge (see the plaque in the picture)
i thought he was the main man,
The Duke of Kent is the Grand Master of my Grand Lodge the United Grand Lodge of England, Peter is a member of the Grand Lodge of All England and his Grand Master is someone else.

Mike

[mike martin]

Hi Mike
Sorry but I just withdrew that remark. Being an ex British soldier, I don't think we would consciously serve evil, the problem is most of us are unconscious.
In other words we are being tricked by those at the top of the pyramid and that for me is relly sad.

No fuss! I just get used to people chucking that kind of crap at me round here and it does get a bit boring.

I'm defo alert, I was anti Masonry before I joined it but I learnt about it over a period of years and ended up asking to join.

Mike

[mike martin]

i heard he's a royal arch mason.

Unlikely!

The actual claim is that Blair is a 33rd Degree Mason member of Studholme Lodge 1591.

It is of course complete bowlocks

Mike

[lightgiver]

How do you know that Blair is not a freemason of sorts in one of the many confusing lodges some where over the rainbow:D;)

[mike martin]

How do you know that Blair is not a freemason of sorts in one of the many confusing lodges some where over the rainbow:D;)

I suppose it is possible that he is a Knight of Columbus (aka St Columba aka St Columbas). That is the Catholic version of Freemasonry.

Mike

[grandsecretary]

How do you know that Blair is not a freemason of sorts in one of the many confusing lodges some where over the rainbow:D;)


Because of what we know, and who we know, we would pick it up in seconds.

As a Catholic convert and known to the Pope on a personal level, he is possibly a Knight of St Columbus, but that is not Craft Freemasonry. That is religious Knighthood.

[boots]

Well if that were true perhaps you could explain to me why the Catholic Church is so anti-Mason that as a matter of policy it refuses to provide the Holy Sacraments to Freemasons.

The church is SO anti mason is it.:rolleyes:

Nothing to explain. None of these are Masonic tokens "handshakes" and Cardinal Ratzinger is vehemently anti-Mason. It is a major problem for us who are engaged in direct discussions with the Holy See on this very difficult issue.

Former Popes have been Masons, but not this one I can assure you.

Yet you say POPES have been Masons

The Vatican photograph is NOT a Masonic token. Pope Paul was definitely NOT a Freemason although he was enthroned by a Masonic Cardinal, Cardinal Baggio.

We can get our information wrong, but that is a mistake not dishonesty. We are not perfect.

.

More evidence that the Church is Masonic by your own words

The Pope is in sole charge and total control of the Vatican City, including the banking system and its finances, as an all powerful Monarch. He is neither Corporation, nor Freemason is he?


Now you are definitely a LAIR. The Vatican IS a corporation and from you own words Masonic.

.

[boots]

Looks like you can't comprehend the fact that the queen has to ask permission to enter the CITY OF LONDON.

The Queen has to ask the permission of the Lord Mayor for the passage of troops through the City, AS WELL.

Can't get your head around the fact that The city of London answers not to the queen or the UK but to it's own agenda. Because it is a financial center of banking which is controlled by the Rothchilds.

Wake up Martin.

.

Couldn't answer that could you

You're a bit of a berk aren't you?

I'll repost the answer I gave earlier as you obviously didn't bother to read it.



Now just to help you here I'll explain it for you.

IF the Queen had to ask for permission from the Lord Mayor, in other words he had authority over her, he would not have to give her his symbol of power (that's the sword) and be given permission to carry it in front of her.

The lord Mayor of the square mile of London called a corporation Gives her permission with a sword, then takes back the sword. SO that means he can not give permission if he so chooses. WHAT can't you comprehend about that. As this relates to the 3 cities of the Illuminati families.


Does that help you at all?

Mike[/quote]


Does this help you to comprehend. I'd guess not.:rolleyes: Your to fixated in your delusion and single mindedness.

Go back to sleep mason mike.

.

[grandsecretary]

Go back to sleep mason mike.

Mike, did you know that White Noise can be used to disorient individuals and may be used as part of sensory deprivation techniques?

[grandsecretary]

"The other thing that we have to remember is that Catholics, in those days, could be Freemasons. In fact, it was the only organization in England that afforded them equality within society since the day King James VII of the Scots (James II of England) had been deposed. (He had wanted everyone within the boundaries of his kingdoms to worship according to their own conscience.) With the Stewarts out of the political picture in Britain, "liberty of conscience" and the concept of equality were firmly ousted. This meant that politics reverted back to the status quo, and no one but Anglicans had any rights at all. In order to retain this status quo, all lodges in England, or as many as possible, were to be taken over, subverted, even eradicated if necessary. Although 1717 saw a new, London-based Masonic impetus, working to restore the Stewarts to their rightful inheritance, the plan was foiled after the failure of the Atterbury plot to overthrow George I in 1722. In 1723, at the end of the Duke of Wharton's grand mastership, the Grand Lodge of England was taken over by Hanoverian infiltrators. (... It is interesting to note, in passing, that the lodge's archival records, from its inception in 1717 to June 24, 1723, have totally vanished.)

(SOURCE: The Knights Templar of the Middle East by Michael James Alexander Stewart and Walid Amine Salhab, published by Weiser)

Now take a look at this:

http://www.vatican.edu/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18840420_humanum-genus_en.html

[boots]

Mike, did you know that White Noise can be used to disorient individuals and may be used as part of sensory deprivation techniques?

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/2585/iconwankos8.gif (http://imageshack.us)


.

[grandsecretary]

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/2585/iconwankos8.gif (http://imageshack.us)


.

You'll go even more blind than you are now! http://www.bootsopticians.com/default.aspx

[boots]

You'll go even more blind than you are now! http://www.bootsopticians.com/default.aspx


Not as blind to the freemasons involvement with the Illuminati as you are GS.

.

[grandsecretary]

Not as blind to the freemasons involvement with the Illuminati as you are GS.

.

I feel a GWOLK coming on.

[boots]

I feel a GWOLK coming on.

Yes it's so easy to see how fool's have been used to further the agenda.

Wake up mason GS.


Now Mayer Amschel Rothschild, he discovers that General von Estorff is now attached to the court of Prince William IX of Hesse-Hanau, one of the richest royal houses in Europe, which gained its' wealth by the hiring out of Hessian soldiers to foreign countries for vast profits (a practice that continues today in the form of exporting, "peacekeeping," troops throughout the world).
He therefore makes the General's re-acquaintance on the pretext of selling him valuable coins and trinkets at discounted prices. As he plans, Rothschild is subsequently introduced to Prince William himself who is more than pleased with discounted prices he charges for his rare coins and trinkets, and Rothschild offers him a bonus for any other business the Prince can direct his way.
Rothschild subsequently becomes close associates with Prince William, and ends up doing business with him and members of the court. He soon discovers that loaning money to governments and royalty is more profitable than loaning to individuals, as the loans are bigger and are secured by the nation's taxes.
1769: Mayer Amschel Rothschild is given permission by Prince William to hang a sign on the front of his business premises declaring that he is, "M. A. Rothschild, by appointment court factor to his serene highness, Prince William of Hanau."
1770: Mayer Amschel Rothschild draws up plans for the creation of the Illuminati and entrusts Ashkenazi Jew, Adam Weishaupt, a Crypto-Jew who was outwardly Roman Catholic, with its organization and development. The Illuminati is to be based upon the teachings of the Talmud, which is in turn, the teachings of Rabbinical Jews. It was to be called the Illuminati as this is a Luciferian term which means, keepers of the light.
Mayer Amschel Rothschild marries Gutle Schnaper.
1773: Amschel Mayer Rothschild born, the first of Mayer Amschel Rothschild’s sons. He like all his brothers who follow him, will enter the family business at the age of 12.
1774: Salomon Mayer Rothschild born.
1776: Adam Weishaupt officially completes his organisation of the Illuminati on May 1 of this year. The purpose of the Illuminati is to divide the goyim (all non-Jews) through political, economic, social, and religious means. The opposing sides were to be armed and incidents were to be provided in order for them to: fight amongst themselves; destroy national governments; destroy religious institutions; and eventually destroy each other.
Weishaupt soon infiltrates the Continental Order of Freemasons with this Illuminati doctrine and establishes lodges of the Grand Orient to be their secret headquarters. This was all under the orders and finance of Mayer Amschel Rothschild and the concept has spread and is followed within Masonic Lodges worldwide to the present day.
Weishaupt also recruits 2,000 paid followers including the most intelligent men in the field of arts and letters, education, science, finance,and industry. They were instructed to follow the following methods in order to control people. 1) Use monetary and sex bribery to obtain control of men already in high places, in the various levels of all governments and other fields of endeavour. Once influential persons had fallen for the lies, deceits, and temptations of the Illuminati they were to be held in bondage by application of political and other forms of blackmail, threats of financial ruin, public exposure, and fiscal harm, even death to themselves and loved members of their families. 2) The faculties of colleges and universities were to cultivate students possessing exceptional mental ability belonging to well-bred families with international leanings, and recommend them for special training in internationalism, or rather the notion that only a one-world government can put an end to recurring wars and strife. Such training was to be provided by granting scholarships to those selected by the Illuminati.
3) All influential people trapped into coming under the control of the Illuminati, plus the students who had been specially educated and trained, were to be used as agents and placed behind the scenes of all governments as experts and specialists. This was so they would advise the top executives to adopt policies which would in the long-run serve the secret plans of the Illuminati one-world conspiracy and bring about the destruction of the governments and religions they were elected or appointed to serve.
4) To obtain absolute-control of the press, at that time the only mass-communications media which distributed information to the public, so that all news and information could be slanted in order to make the masses believe that a one-world government is the only solution to our many and varied problems.




Are you intelligent enough to see where it all lead's back to?


OR



Does your ego blind you?




The Masonic movies is an eye opening thread.

As well as this one.

The LIGHTBRINGERS the Emissaries of Jahbulon.

[grandsecretary]

Yes it's so easy to see how fool's have been used to further the agenda.

Wake up mason GS.


Now Mayer Amschel Rothschild, he discovers that General von Estorff is now attached to the court of Prince William IX of Hesse-Hanau, one of the richest royal houses in Europe, which gained its' wealth by the hiring out of Hessian soldiers to foreign countries for vast profits (a practice that continues today in the form of exporting, "peacekeeping," troops throughout the world).
He therefore makes the General's re-acquaintance on the pretext of selling him valuable coins and trinkets at discounted prices. As he plans, Rothschild is subsequently introduced to Prince William himself who is more than pleased with discounted prices he charges for his rare coins and trinkets, and Rothschild offers him a bonus for any other business the Prince can direct his way.
Rothschild subsequently becomes close associates with Prince William, and ends up doing business with him and members of the court. He soon discovers that loaning money to governments and royalty is more profitable than loaning to individuals, as the loans are bigger and are secured by the nation's taxes.
1769: Mayer Amschel Rothschild is given permission by Prince William to hang a sign on the front of his business premises declaring that he is, "M. A. Rothschild, by appointment court factor to his serene highness, Prince William of Hanau."
1770: Mayer Amschel Rothschild draws up plans for the creation of the Illuminati and entrusts Ashkenazi Jew, Adam Weishaupt, a Crypto-Jew who was outwardly Roman Catholic, with its organization and development. The Illuminati is to be based upon the teachings of the Talmud, which is in turn, the teachings of Rabbinical Jews. It was to be called the Illuminati as this is a Luciferian term which means, keepers of the light.
Mayer Amschel Rothschild marries Gutle Schnaper.
1773: Amschel Mayer Rothschild born, the first of Mayer Amschel Rothschild’s sons. He like all his brothers who follow him, will enter the family business at the age of 12.
1774: Salomon Mayer Rothschild born.
1776: Adam Weishaupt officially completes his organisation of the Illuminati on May 1 of this year. The purpose of the Illuminati is to divide the goyim (all non-Jews) through political, economic, social, and religious means. The opposing sides were to be armed and incidents were to be provided in order for them to: fight amongst themselves; destroy national governments; destroy religious institutions; and eventually destroy each other.
Weishaupt soon infiltrates the Continental Order of Freemasons with this Illuminati doctrine and establishes lodges of the Grand Orient to be their secret headquarters. This was all under the orders and finance of Mayer Amschel Rothschild and the concept has spread and is followed within Masonic Lodges worldwide to the present day.
Weishaupt also recruits 2,000 paid followers including the most intelligent men in the field of arts and letters, education, science, finance,and industry. They were instructed to follow the following methods in order to control people. 1) Use monetary and sex bribery to obtain control of men already in high places, in the various levels of all governments and other fields of endeavour. Once influential persons had fallen for the lies, deceits, and temptations of the Illuminati they were to be held in bondage by application of political and other forms of blackmail, threats of financial ruin, public exposure, and fiscal harm, even death to themselves and loved members of their families. 2) The faculties of colleges and universities were to cultivate students possessing exceptional mental ability belonging to well-bred families with international leanings, and recommend them for special training in internationalism, or rather the notion that only a one-world government can put an end to recurring wars and strife. Such training was to be provided by granting scholarships to those selected by the Illuminati.
3) All influential people trapped into coming under the control of the Illuminati, plus the students who had been specially educated and trained, were to be used as agents and placed behind the scenes of all governments as experts and specialists. This was so they would advise the top executives to adopt policies which would in the long-run serve the secret plans of the Illuminati one-world conspiracy and bring about the destruction of the governments and religions they were elected or appointed to serve.
4) To obtain absolute-control of the press, at that time the only mass-communications media which distributed information to the public, so that all news and information could be slanted in order to make the masses believe that a one-world government is the only solution to our many and varied problems.




Are you intelligent enough to see where it all lead's back to?


OR



Does your ego blind you?




The Masonic movies is an eye opening thread.

As well as this one.

The LIGHTBRINGERS the Emissaries of Jahbulon.




Adam Weishaupt believed that the ends justify the means, very much like you.

His aim was the overthrow of monarchies and religions, sweeping away nations, private property and marriage, a revolution ending in a New World Order.

In order to advance his aims, in 1776, at the age of 53, he formed The Order of Perfectibilists, later known as The Order of the Illuminati. Men of some influence, including politicians joined. It never achieved more than 2,000 members.

As the Hanoverian Dynasty did in England in 1723, he recognised that Freemasonry was an influential force in society which could be manipulated for political reasons. He was initiated a Freemason, in Munich, a year later, in 1777.

At a time, however, when there was no end of making game of and abusing secret societies, I planned to make use of this human foible for a real and worthy goal, for the benefit of people. I wished to do what the heads of the ecclesiastical and secular authorities ought to have done by virtue of their offices... (Weishaupt)

A Jesuit educated Jacobin, he joined forces with others in order to unite in revolt against the French Throne (1782-1785). They infiltrated Grand Orient Freemasonry; Scottish Rite Masonry, The Grand Lodge of France, and The Grand Orient of France, in effect using Freemasonry for their own revolutionary ends.

The Order of The Illuminati was banned in 1784. Weishaupt was forced to flee from Bavaria. He wrote a number of books after 1784, but died in exile in 1830, a failure.

I have posted this to show the difference between your propoganda and history.

[boots]

Adam Weishaupt believed that the ends justify the means, very much like you.

His aim was the overthrow of monarchies and religions, sweeping away nations, private property and marriage, a revolution ending in a New World Order.

In order to advance his aims, in 1776, at the age of 53, he formed The Order of Perfectibilists, later known as The Order of the Illuminati. Men of some influence, including politicians joined. It never achieved more than 2,000 members.

As the Hanoverian Dynasty did in England in 1723, he recognised that Freemasonry was an influential force in society which could be manipulated for political reasons. He was initiated a Freemason, in Munich, a year later, in 1777.



A Jesuit educated Jacobin, he joined forces with others in order to unite in revolt against the French Throne (1782-1785). They infiltrated Grand Orient Freemasonry; Scottish Rite Masonry, The Grand Lodge of France, and The Grand Orient of France, in effect using Freemasonry for their own revolutionary ends.

The Order of The Illuminati was banned in 1784. Weishaupt was forced to flee from Bavaria. He wrote a number of books after 1784, but died in exile in 1830, a failure.

I have posted this to show the difference between your propoganda and history.

You are very misguided blandsecretary. To think that the plans put in place by Adam Weishsupt ended with his exile from Bavaria and subsequent death.

Now to refute your propaganda.

http://www.religiouscounterfeits.org/ml_powerful.htm


All of the documentative evidence that showed that the Illuminati was a dangerous International Group was published by the Bavarian Government and sent to all of the Leaders of Europe to warn them of the plot. -Nesta Webster, World Revolution, pg. 25. The name of this document was "Original Writings of the Order and Sect of the Illuminati". Eventually the Bavarian Government banned both the Illuminati and the Freemasons on March 2, 1785. Although the Illuminati officially ceased after its exposure in the 1780s, the continuation of its efforts would be ensured through the Grand Orient Lodge of France. Working through the Grand Orient Lodge and the network of the Illuminized Masonic Lodges already put in place by Weishaupt - high Freemasonry would continue with its plans to build a New World Order!
Freemasonry and the Illuminati together realized that they must operate by secrecy, and they often establish other Organizations and Groups to carry out their plans. This allows them to work out their plans, without the public knowing that they are responsible for whatever these other Organizations and Groups are doing! Throughout the late 1700s and all of the 1800s, Illuminized Freemasonry would continue to operate in this way, creating new Organizations to carry out the task that was begun by Adam Weishaupt and the Illuminati.



Failure to heed the warning
Unfortunately, when the Bavarian Government had tried to warn the other European Countries about the true aims of the Illuminati, the warning fell upon deaf ears. Some of the European Leaders had already fallen under the influence of the Order, and others just found it too difficult to believe such outrageous plans had been devised by the Order.
Therefore, in France, the word of God was rejected, and the Illuminist Doctrine of Human Reason took its place, along with Spiritualism. The French Revolution took place, even though the very documents which told of the Illuminati's plans to destroy the French Government through riots and revolutions had been found and used to warn these people! The damage had already been done by Adam Weishaupt, and the fire that was kindled by the Illuminists soon to burst forth in the French Revolution! The title of Illuminati was later given to the French Martinists.


'PROTOCOLS OF ZION' AND 'RED SYMPHONY' Freemasonry is the world's largest secret society with over five million members, including three million in the US. It is instrumental in the totalitarian conspiracy. (http://www.savethemales.ca/300902.html) In The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the author (who I believe is Lionel Rothschild (http://www.savethemales.ca/000223.html)) writes,
"Gentile masonry blindly serves as a screen for us and our objects, but the plan of action of our force, even its very abiding place, remains for the whole people an unknown mystery....Who and what is in a position to overthrow an invisible force?" (Protocol 4)
Again he writes, "we shall create and multiply free Masonic lodges... absorb into them all who may become or who are prominent in public activity, for in these lodges we shall find our principle intelligence office and means of influence.... The most secret political plots will be known to us and will fall under our guiding hands...We know the final goal...whereas the goyim have knowledge of nothing..." (Protocol 15)
In his interrogation, Rakovsky says that millions flock to Freemasonry to gain an advantage. "The rulers of all the Allied nations were Freemasons, with very few exceptions."
However, the real aim is "create all the required prerequisites for the triumph of the Communist revolution; this is the obvious aim of Freemasonry; it is clear that all this is done under various pretexts; but they always conceal themselves behind their well known treble slogan [Liberty, Equality, Fraternity]. You understand?" (254)
Masons should recall the lesson of the French Revolution. Although "they played a colossal revolutionary role; it consumed the majority of masons..." Since the revolution requires the extermination of the bourgeoisie as a class, [so all wealth will be held by the Illuminati in the guise of the State] it follows that Freemasons must be liquidated. The true meaning of Communism is Illuminati tyranny.
When this secret is revealed, Rakovsky imagines "the expression of stupidity on the face of some Freemason when he realises that he must die at the hands of the revolutionaries. How he screams and wants that one should value his services to the revolution! It is a sight at which one can die...but of laughter!" (254)
Rakovsky refers to Freemasonry as a hoax: "a madhouse but at liberty." (254)
In Russia in 1929 every Mason who was not Jewish was killed along with his family, according to Alexey Jefimow "Who are the Rulers of Russia?" (77)
Like masons, other applicants for the humanist utopia master class (neo cons, liberals, Zionists, gay and feminist activists) might be in for a nasty surprise. They might be tossed aside once they have served their purpose.



http://www.savethemales.ca/000280.html


Do you not see blandsecretary?


You are being used. The ideologies of freemasons are now tools of the illuminati. As Henry Kissinger has said you are useful idiots.




Damn shame really. I know a guy who is a Mason and he has a lot of intelligence and has seen the true light and the purpose of a NWO.


DO YOU?? Blandsecretary.


.

[grandsecretary]

Damn shame really. I know a guy who is a Mason and he has a lot of intelligence and has seen the true light and the purpose of a NWO.

I deal in history not propoganda. Stop assuming that when someone tries to debate an issue seriously that he is defending somthing, when he isn't.

I couldn't care less about the long dead Order of the Illuminati. Read some reliable history books and not the ravings of religious maniacs.

I would say the same to your so-called "Mason friend" who has seen the "true light".

[boots]

I deal in history not propoganda. Stop assuming that when someone tries to debate an issue seriously that he is defending somthing, when he isn't.

I couldn't care less about the long dead Order of the Illuminati. Read some reliable history books and not the ravings of religious maniacs.

I would say the same to your so-called "Mason friend" who has seen the "true light".


You don't deal in history. It's only what you have been fed by a controlled media.

Religious maniac's What a joke that's what freemasons are. LOL.

You couldn't careless about the Illuminati, hey:rolleyes: when they are the one's who have control of the world's finances and media. If you even could comprehend that something this powerful too the order would never die you might have a chance at breaking the fog around your brain.

It's becoming quite clear blandsecretary That it is you through your blind ignorance about history who is pushing the propaganda of the NWO/Illuminati. to justify being a mason. One who is being used.


So called Mason friend:rolleyes: Sounds like your bit of a pompous git, who thinks his shit doesn't stink. lol.

.

[grandsecretary]

You don't deal in history. It's only what you have been fed by a controlled media.

Religious maniac's What a joke that's what freemasons are. LOL.

You couldn't careless about the Illuminati, hey:rolleyes: when they are the one's who have control of the world's finances and media. If you even could comprehend that something this powerful too the order would never die you might have a chance at breaking the fog around your brain.

It's becoming quite clear blandsecretary That it is you through your blind ignorance about history who is pushing the propaganda of the NWO/Illuminati. to justify being a mason. One who is being used.


So called Mason friend:rolleyes: Sounds like your bit of a pompous git, who thinks his shit doesn't stink. lol.

.

Sounds like someone who has no answers, only excuses for his own failures.

[boots]

Sounds like someone who has no answers, only excuses for his own failures.

Ahh typical mason tactic when faced with overwhelming evidence that a 13 year old could figure out. They resort to a weak statement like that.


.

[grandsecretary]

Ahh typical mason tactic when faced with overwhelming evidence that a 13 year old could figure out. They resort to a weak statement like that.
.

You forgot, it's Wall Street Financiers and International Bankers day today.

Woe, woe, thrice woe! Keep going Senna.

[banoyes]

Sounds like someone who has no answers, only excuses for his own failures.
wow
this from a guy who writes off all the maisonoc connections as "coincidence"
"Your greatest strength.is your greatest weakness"
deny,deny.deny
and then
divert

[grandsecretary]

wow
this from a guy who writes off all the maisonoc connections as "coincidence"
"Your greatest strength.is your greatest weakness"
deny,deny.deny
and then
divert

I might have known that you would pop up. Now which one are you? The depleted uranium and the anthrax, or the ex-family of despicable Masons who ruined your life?

Woe, woe, thrice woe!

Please do not put words in my mouth - again. I have never written off Masonic connections as "coincidence", and you know it.

[banoyes]

I might have known that you would pop up. Now which one are you? The depleted uranium and the anthrax, or the ex-family of despicable Masons who ruined your life?

Woe, woe, thrice woe!

Please do not put words in my mouth - again. I have never written off Masonic connections as "coincidence", and you know it.
Masonic transference... my life is ruined... hmmm
fact is
the life on planet earth is ruined by Freemasons dedication to the Agenda
so you admit
It is not a "coincidence" that the majority of the Warren Commission were Freemasons
Or Freemasons aiding and abetting in the formation of Israel
or 7 of the 9 U S Supreme Court Justices were Freemasons
or the out of wack number of Freemasons who have been President of the USA
or the inordinate amount of Freemasons who are political leaders in countries around the world
and ya know
if it ain't a "coincidence"...It's a conspiracy

[grandsecretary]

Masonic transference... my life is ruined... hmmm
fact is
the life on planet earth is ruined by Freemasons dedication to the Agenda
so you admit
It is not a "coincidence" that the majority of the Warren Commission were Freemasons
Or Freemasons aiding and abetting in the formation of Israel
or 7 of the 9 U S Supreme Court Justices were Freemasons
or the out of wack number of Freemasons who have been President of the USA
or the inordinate amount of Freemasons who are political leaders in countries around the world
and ya know
if it ain't a "coincidence"...It's a conspiracy


Look I agreed it with lightgiver earlier. "Nothing is my fault it's all THEM!"

THEM:

Monday: "Wall Street Financiers and International Bankers";
Tuesday: "The Masons";
Wednesday "George Bush";
Thursday "White Bread";
Friday "Martians".

You're a day early.

[banoyes]

Look I agreed it with lightgiver earlier. "Nothing is my fault it's all THEM!"

THEM:

Monday: "Wall Street Financiers and International Bankers";
Tuesday: "The Masons";
Wednesday "George Bush";
Thursday "White Bread";
Friday "Martians".

You're a day early.
Double speak
admit and deny
oohh
don't forget the "martians"
You are disingenuous, at best
Best thing ...
All can see Freemason duplicity

[grandsecretary]

Double speak
admit and deny
oohh
don't forget the "martians"
You are disingenuous, at best
Best thing ...
All can see Freemason duplicity

:p

[banoyes]

:p
That's all Grand Peter has
Pompous snideness, a tell of dis informers and Freemasons
cut from the same cloth

[grandsecretary]

That's all Grand Peter has
Pompous snideness, a tell of dis informers and Freemasons
cut from the same cloth

:cool:

[localidiot]

That's all Grand Peter has
Pompous snideness, a tell of dis informers and Freemasons
cut from the same cloth
Hello pot, meet kettle. kettle, this is pot. I hope you get along famously.

[banoyes]

Hello pot, meet kettle. kettle, this is pot. I hope you get along famously.
Just more of the same
well
There is no need to go further with these fine fellows
The profane populace is aware of maison methods
no more proof needed

[localidiot]

Thank you for showing exactly what imeant. Again, I am not a... maison (a house?) nor affiliated with the group in any way. If you wish to challenge me on that statement, I'd be glad to perform what you would have me do.

However, anyone questioning you opinion gets met with the same snide remarks you say the Masons/maisons make.

[dawnismygoddess]

The ones being given by some of the Masons are "sloppy" and "lazy" tokens

This is best answer you could come up with? Come on now.

Of course they are "sloppy" - they are not in the formal lodge setting and they know that they are being photographed!


It is just like a soldier giving a a "lazy" salute. You appear to be trying to dodge the question I put forth. The fact is it is not a normal handshake - be they Masonic or not - they are not normal. Would you at least agree with me on this point?


(BTW, for the record, I do not think the current Pope is a Mason)


The point I am trying to make here, is that most secret societies have special "passgrips" for their members to use, so even if these people pictured are not Masons, they are still men in the "good old boys club" of one form or another, and this is how they often times greet each other.



"Normal" handshake:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/handshake.jpg


33° Mason and U.S. President Harry S. Truman (b. 1884 - d. 1972), with unknown Catholic cardinal:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/Truman1.jpg

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/Truman2.jpg



Just in case you were going to dispute Truman being a "Brother", I have included these two photos for your (and everyone else's) viewing pleasure:
http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/TrumaninMasonicRegalia1949-1.jpg


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/TrumaninMasonicregalia1951-1.jpg

[banoyes]

Thank you for showing exactly what imeant. Again, I am not a... maison (a house?) nor affiliated with the group in any way. If you wish to challenge me on that statement, I'd be glad to perform what you would have me do.

However, anyone questioning you opinion gets met with the same snide remarks you say the Masons/maisons make.

Opinion
you have not posted one citation-ever
You're not a maison-you just agree with them 100% of the time
You are aptly named
no more to say

[grandsecretary]

Normal handshake:

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/handshake.jpg

Agreed.

33° Mason and U.S. President Harry S. Truman (b. 1884 - d. 1972), with unknown Catholic cardinal:

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp14/Inverted_Heptagram_Star/Truman1.jpg

No, you are quite right, President Truman was definitely a 33 degree Mason. In fact, he is pictured here with the Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Geoffrey Fisher, also a Freemason. However, that is a very good example of a sloppy handshake that can be mistaken for a Masonic token, or a sloppy Masonic token that can be mistaken for a handshake.

Take a look at this, the same, slightly older Geoffrey Fisher, Freemason, with an Indian lady, definitely NOT a freemason.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/grandsecretary/Fisher.jpg

Now take a look at the handshake!

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/grandsecretary/Fisherhandshake.jpg

I have never said that Masonic tokens (handshakes) are not misused. On the contrary it happens far too often and it is a curse. But it is difficult to tell in a photograph.

Anyway, men like the Archbishop of Canterbury and President Truman don't need to impress people with Masonic handshakes.

The current Pope is vehemently anti-Mason and is a pain!

[lightgiver]

Look I agreed it with lightgiver earlier. "Nothing is my fault it's all THEM!"

THEM:

Monday: "Wall Street Financiers and International Bankers";
Tuesday: "The Masons";
Wednesday "George Bush";
Thursday "White Bread";
Friday "Martians".

You're a day early.

You are turning into a very not nice man be careful what you say,what i say is the truth,i was injected with anthrax pumped with all sorts of shit and then exposed to DU,
and i am well aware of white noise to after seeing it and experiencing it first hand.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26157&page=23

Check post 223 GS.

[dawnismygoddess]

No, you are quite right, President Truman was definitely a 33 degree Mason. In fact, he is pictured here with the Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Geoffrey Fisher, also a Freemason. However, that is a very good example of a sloppy handshake that can be mistaken for a Masonic token, or a sloppy Masonic token that can be mistaken for a handshake.
But all the same, it is still a Masonic greeting, is it not?

Granted, they are in public and they are being photographed, but it is still one brother acknowledging another, correct?


Take a look at this, the same, slightly older Geoffrey Fisher, Freemason, with an Indian lady, definitely NOT a freemason.
Do we know who this woman is? No chance of her being a CO?


Now take a look at the handshake!
My observation would be that men often shake a woman's hand in this manner, it is like a polite "soft" shake.




I have never said that Masonic tokens (handshakes) are not misused. On the contrary it happens far too often and it is a curse. But it is difficult to tell in a photograph.

Anyway, men like the Archbishop of Canterbury and President Truman don't need to impress people with Masonic handshakes.

The current Pope is vehemently anti-Mason and is a pain!


What exactly do you mean by "mis-used"? They are not suppose to be given in public?

Also, in the 1950's, people were not carefully looking at newspaper photographs on a personal computer, so I am sure not many even noticed.


For the record, I thought that Catholics were banned from being Masons, why would someone that high up be a Mason? Did not the church forbade it?

[grandsecretary]

You are turning into a very not nice man be careful what you say,what i say is the truth,i was injected with anthrax pumped with all sorts of shit and then exposed to DU,
and i am well aware of white noise to after seeing it and experiencing it first hand.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26157&page=23

Check post 223 GS.

Have you ever thought that you might be attracting this type of response because you don't believe a word that anyone says if he says that he is freemason but doesn't agree with you?

Being accused of lying, every time, by you, is very wearing, and frankly annoying. We KNOW, you are guessing.

I am quite happy to call a truce if you are willing to be civil, and discuss the issues, important issues, without constantly casting aspersions.

As Stewart will tell you, it takes two to tango.

I am sorry for your suffering, and apologise if I have hurt your feelings. If there is anything I can do, you have my email address.

[lightgiver]

Have you ever thought that you might be attracting this type of response because you don't believe a word that anyone says if he says that he is freemason but doesn't agree with you?

Being accused of lying, every time, by you, is very wearing, and frankly annoying. We KNOW, you are guessing.

I am quite happy to call a truce if you are willing to be civil, and discuss the issues, important issues, without constantly casting aspersions.

As Stewart will tell you, it takes two to tango.

I am sorry for your suffering, and apologise if I have hurt your feelings. If there is anything I can do, you have my email address.

But you are deceiver,you run around the facts and go off subject and demean people when you do not get your own way and when others disagree with you,i do not bull shit people,
Your flippant comments will not wash with me.
You think your age gives wisdom,i have seen wiser children.

Why would i need a truce :confused: i take no sides.

and you have not hurt my feelings in the slightest,i laugh at your futility:D:D

and i bear no grudges towards no one, even the killers and the ones who ignore the slaughter.

Ye shall reap what you sow.

I did not say i do not beleive masons i just do not trust them in the slightest.

Remember you are a mason on the D icke forum,i find that quite ironic,HA HA.

[grandsecretary]

Q. But all the same, it is still a Masonic greeting, is it not?

A. Possibly is the best I can do on that one.

Q. Granted, they are in public and they are being photographed, but it is still one brother acknowledging another, correct?

A. Again, possibly.

Q. Do we know who this woman is? No chance of her being a CO?

A. If she were, he would certainly NOT have acknowledged her, especially in those days . Not the done thing old boy!

Q. My observation would be that men often shake a woman's hand in this manner, it is like a polite "soft" shake.

A. Good point.

Q. What exactly do you mean by "mis-used"? They are not supposed to be given in public?

A Too many modern Freemasons do, in order to "advertise" their Freemasonry. They wear Masonic rings and put bumper stickers on their cars. Tacky. Why would they want to do this? I am very suspicious.

Q. And so, in the 1950's, people were not carefully looking at newspaper photographs on a personal computer, so I am sure not many even noticed.

A. Good point.

Q. For the record, I thought that Catholics were banned from being Masons, why would someone that high up be a Mason? Did not the church forbade it?

A. Geoffrey Fisher was not a Catholic, he was an Anglican.

The Vatican ban was directed towards the Moderns form of Freemasonry (The Protestant Hanoverian Grand Lodge of London, now known as the United Grand Lodge of England). The Grand Lodge of London was rabidly anti-Catholic.

This is one useful quotation to illustrate for you the political situation that caused the rift between the Moderns and the Vatican in 1723:

"The other thing that we have to remember is that Catholics, in those days, could be Freemasons. In fact, it was the only organization in England that afforded them equality within society since the day King James VII of the Scots (James II of England) had been deposed. (He had wanted everyone within the boundaries of his kingdoms to worship according to their own conscience.)

"With the Stewarts out of the political picture in Britain, "liberty of conscience" and the concept of equality were firmly ousted. This meant that politics reverted back to the status quo, and no one but Anglicans had any rights at all.

"In order to retain this status quo, all lodges in England, or as many as possible, were to be taken over, subverted, even eradicated if necessary. Although 1717 saw a new, London-based Masonic impetus, working to restore the Stewarts to their rightful inheritance, the plan was foiled after the failure of the Atterbury plot to overthrow George I in 1722. In 1723, at the end of the Duke of Wharton's grand mastership, the Grand Lodge of England was taken over by Hanoverian infiltrators.

"It is interesting to note, in passing, that the lodge's archival records, from its inception in 1717 to June 24, 1723, have totally vanished."

(SOURCE: The Knights Templar of the Middle East by Michael James Alexander Stewart and Walid Amine Salhab, published by Weiser, 2007)

[grandsecretary]

But you are deceiver,you run around the facts and go off subject and demean people when you do not get your own way and when others disagree with you,i do not bull shit people,
Your flippant comments will not wash with me.
You think your age gives wisdom,i have seen wiser children.

Why would i need a truce :confused: i take no sides.

and you have not hurt my feelings in the slightest,i laugh at your futility:D:D

and i bear no grudges towards no one, even the killers and the ones who ignore the slaughter.

Ye shall reap what you sow.

I did not say i do not beleive masons i just do not trust them in the slightest.

Remember you are a mason on the D icke forum,i find that quite ironic,HA HA.

Then don't keep on belly aching about your ailments in order to garner sympathy.

Please do not take my offer to you as a sign of weakness. It was simply an act of kindness that, evidently was lost on you.

[lightgiver]

Then don't keep on belly aching about your ailments in order to garner sympathy.

Please do not take my offer to you as a sign of weakness. It was simply an act of kindness that, evidently was lost on you.

What are you on about???

What ailments? you are placing suggestions,ha ha.

and i was not the one who started the insults do you want a reminder?

You need to check your posts ,either that or there is more than 1 GS on here.

[dawnismygoddess]

Thanks for the answers.


A. If she were, he would certainly NOT have acknowledged her, especially in those days . Not the done thing old boy!

I see. Is she Indian?


A Too many modern Freemasons do, in order to "advertise" their Freemasonry. They wear Masonic rings and put bumper stickers on their cars. Tacky. Why would they want to do this? I am very suspicious

I agree. Although I rarely see this in California - in fact I have only seen it once. But in other parts of the country I hear it is pretty bad.

[grandsecretary]

What are you on about???

What ailments? you are placing suggestions,ha ha.

and i was not the one who started the insults do you want a reminder?

You need to check your posts ,either that or there is more than 1 GS on here.

I truly believe that you blame THEM for you health problems and you cannot move on. Lightgiver I have offered to help you, and I am in a position to do so, but I can't be bothered with you, honestly I just can't. You are a such a bitter personality.

[grandsecretary]

I see. Is she Indian?

I agree. Although I rarely see this in California - in fact I have only seen it once. But in other parts of the country I hear it is pretty bad.

She looks like an Indian lady to me.

Quite dreadful, and it devalues Freemasonry, membership of which, IMHO should be an entirely private matter.

[lightgiver]

Lightgiver I can't be bothered with you. Honestly I just can't. You are a very bitter personality.

:D:D now you are really putting suggestions down maybe you are not aware of it due to programming:D;)

Sorry if you feel i am being bitter,this is not correct,

a very concerned citizen:( i am just passionate about what is going on,and i for one want to live in a better and safer un corrupt place,and the same for my family friends and strangers,

the facts are the facts and there is something not quite right with this whole freemasonry agenda.just trying to get to the bottom of the hole,even though i know ultimately it is EMPTY.

but there are some very dark things going on IE Bohemian grove,skull and bones,911 the list goes on,and the Freemasons in one form or another are linked.IMO.

So sorry for asking questions,i thought that's what freedom was:confused:

[grandsecretary]

:D:D now you are really putting suggestions down maybe you are not aware of it due to programming:D;)

Sorry if you feel i am being bitter,this is not correct,

a very concerned citizen:( i am just passionate about what is going on,and i for one want to live in a better an safer un corrupt place,and the same for my family friends and strangers,

the facts are the facts and there is something not quite right with this whole freemasonry agenda.just trying to get to the bottom of the hole,even though i know ultimately it is EMPTY.

but there are some very dark things going on IE Bohemian grove,skull and bones,911 the list goes on,and the Freemasons in one form or another are linked.IMO.

So sorry for asking questions,i thought that's what freedom was:confused:

I have no problem whatsoever with asking questions. It's the way that it is done, and the automatic rejection of everything, simply because of where it comes from.

Bohemia Grove, Skull and Bones, 911, and Freemasons in one form or another are linked?

How do you think people who are unjustly accused of mass murder in the 911 disaster should react to you then? I lost a very good friend in that attack, and a number of Masons died.

[dawnismygoddess]

Hey GS, take another look at page 20, you may have missed my last post.

EDIT: wrong thread.

[mike martin]

But all the same, it is still a Masonic greeting, is it not?
Well no actually it is not!

A Masonic grip or token has words that go with it, that is what makes it work! Usually followed up by disclosing your Lodge's name and number.

mike

[dawnismygoddess]

Well no actually it is not!

A Masonic grip or token has words that go with it, that is what makes it work! Usually followed up by disclosing your Lodge's name and number.

mike

But you wouldn't say it out loud in public, would you?

[lightgiver]

I have no problem whatsoever with asking questions. It's the way that it is done, and the automatic rejection of everything, simply because of where it comes from.

Bohemia Grove, Skull and Bones, 911, and Freemasons in one form or another are linked?

How do you think people who are unjustly accused of mass murder in the 911 disaster should react to you then? I lost a very good friend in that attack, and a number of Masons died.

I am not the one who reacted negatively,sorry if you think so.

I have put facts up you have not replied IE JFK speech all the other visible facts,you dismiss them at the whim of a hat and demean people because the facts are not your facts,your information is no reliable than mine i have seen more info and heard and read peoples experiences and it does not put freemasonry in a good light shall we say.:)

So i can understand why you and your mason mates take it personally because it is threatening the very thing you belong to,but i for one do not wish anyone stopping their practise or want to tell anyone what to do.

like i say i just do not trust the label freemasonry,and that's my opinion.

like i say i am just a concerned person without fear.

and a lot of baby's are dying in Palestine also right now??

Baby's die and politicians lie.

Night night.

[grandsecretary]

Well no actually it is not!

A Masonic grip or token has words that go with it, that is what makes it work! Usually followed up by disclosing your Lodge's name and number.

mike


Mike, not when it is between two such well known Masons, in private. They would not need signs or words IMHO. That is why I suspect this photograph. They don't need a token either!

[grandsecretary]

I am not the one who reacted negatively,sorry if you think so.

I have put facts up you have not replied IE JFK speech all the other visible facts,you dismiss them at the whim of a hat and demean people because the facts are not your facts,your information is no reliable than mine i have seen more info and heard and read peoples experiences and it does not put freemasonry in a good light shall we say.:)

So i can understand why you and your mason mates take it personally because it is threatening the very thing you belong to,but i for one do not wish anyone stopping their practise or want to tell anyone what to do.

like i say i just do not trust the label freemasonry,and that's my opinion.

like i say i am just a concerned person without fear.

and a lot of baby's are dying in Palestine also right now??

Baby's die and politicians lie.

Night night.

lightgiver I asked you a straight forward question and you have no answer. An apology would be nice. I hope that you can sleep.

[mike martin]

But you wouldn't say it out loud in public, would you?
Err that's the point! It shouldn't be done outside of the Lodge anyway.

Mike

[mike martin]

Mike, not when it is between two such well known Masons, in private. They would not need signs or words IMHO. That is why I suspect this photograph. They don't need a token either!
Agreed but I thought they were talking about the pic with the lady.

Mike

[dawnismygoddess]

Agreed but I thought they were talking about the pic with the lady.

Mike

yeah, but we came to the conclusion that there isn't anything Masonic going on in that picture - based on the fact of age of picture and female being involved.

[mike martin]

yeah, but we came to the conclusion that there isn't anything Masonic going on in that picture - based on the fact of age of picture and female being involved.
oops missed that, please ignore me while I return to the corner and put my hat back on:)

Mike

[dawnismygoddess]

That is quite alright. :D

[localidiot]

Opinion
you have not posted one citation-ever
You're not a maison-you just agree with them 100% of the time
You are aptly named
no more to say

Now see, either that's a straight out lie, or you didn't bother actually checking my posts before stating anything.

[grandsecretary]

Now see, either that's a straight out lie, or you didn't bother actually checking my posts before stating anything.

"There is no manne so blynd as he that wyll not see, nor so dull as he that wyll not vnderstande."

Thomas Cranmer (1551)