Rob's Very Cunning Plan (Important Information)

[ag3nt5mith]

Full credit going to Robert-Arthur:Menard

http://thinkfreeforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=105&t=4517

Rob's Very Cunning Plan

The purpose of this thread is to inform and invite and not to debate the merits of the plan or the need for a society. If it is not your cup of tea, then simply refrain from commenting or opining and refrain from spitting in something that others do want. If the idea of having to pay fees to be a member of a society does not appeal to you then simply do not join. If the concept of needing resources to accomplish a plan is offensive to you then feel free to show how things can be bought without anything to exchange. If you feel that you should have an equal say in how this thing is started (not run) then I invite you to do so by formulating your own plan and then we can compare yours to mine and see where there are similarities and potential problems. Also recognize there are those who do not want to see this happen and will seek to undermine it all the while trying to sound like they support the idea of freedom. The fact is however, we need 1000 people to make it happen, and if they all want an equal say, it will never happen. This will be one of the first weapons those who seek to derail will use. Even though they have not created the plan, or one of their own, they will claim that because they do not have a say in some aspect that it is a dictatorship and thus they will try to create division using those tools.

Once the society is up and running then it will be governed democratically in much the same way as existing professional associations are. Until then however, although input will be sought and hoped for, the path I have defined will not be open to debate. How we take the steps on that path will be.

This is a Five Step Plan and will be revealed in full publicly when the accompanying movie and paperwork are completed.
Step One: (Actually Step #2 – you will see what I mean when I release the movie)
Phase One
Establish the Framework for a Global Society of Freemen
One Thousand people from across Canada will be required to set up this society for the millions who will join.
There will be a fee of $240/year to join.
The first thousand people will also have to bring $1000 each, totaling $1M in order to establish a strong and effective society. This can be in the form of Promissory Notes or cash, with the latter preferred, and a limit on how many can use the former. Simple truth is I have a plan and am confident of its success, but resources are needed and unless the people who want a change are willing to ante up, there will not be a change.

A full and complete Business Plan and Strategy will be available to those interested in joining. Those who have in the past denigrated the idea of a society of Freemen are not invited to join or to even comment, as I will be keeping an eye out for those whose only intent is to derail this society at its inception.

Members will eventually enjoy all the following:
Identification Cards – This will be the proof which rests on them.
Notary Public- We will have our own Notary Publics to witness the NUI and COR process.
Education – The Freeman Society Canada will provide educational and support services on line and through regular meetings.
Laissez Passer – Just like a Passport, except for Freemen who are traveling without intent to engage in commerce in the host country.
Support – A 1 800 number with recording and witness and legal support available 24/7
Banking – Working with experts in the field, we will set up a bank and credit union for the safe and secure storage and use of individual wealth.
Freeman Traveler and PACLIP – This is the Blue Plate Traveler with a system of identification using our own numbers and plates joined with PACLIP “Private Automobile Collision Liability Insurance Program”
Canadian Common Corps of Peace Officers [C3PO] – We will be engaging our own Peace Officers drawn from our own members and from existing peace officers.
De Jure Courts – We will convene our own courts within which all are equal and charges may be confidently brought against existing courts and their agents and officers and within which the criminal code is enforced against them and disputes between us may be judicially settled.
Freeman Valley – We will be claiming and seizing a valley within which those who desire can join a working and stable community. This will act as an example for others in all commonwealth countries can emulate.
All of these will be established and created and run by the first 1000 members after they form into groups for those purposes.


PhaseTwo
This involves co-ordinating internationally with other groups in order to establish a global society of Freemen with various national chapters, securing acceptance of the various documents and securing the security of our persons as a group.

If you are interested in joining this movement send an email to freemanmenard@gmail.com and express the following.
1.Name and contact information.
2.Your abilities and assets. (Administration, Public Relations, Editing the Society News Letter, operating our Gazette, maintaining an on line presence and forum, opening the Freeman School, teaching, support, construction, raising awareness and capital, operating our cafes, etc)
3.What aspect of the plan you would like to be a part of.
4.Whether you can bring funds or only a Promissory Note.
5.If you want to be a part of the Valley.
6.Whether you are willing to be a Peace Officer.
7.Anything else you think is pertinent.

Happy New Year!

Rob

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I thought this should be post here for more exposure for this grand idea.

Go to the think free forums to follow the thread, plus it looks better there.

Have fun and enjoy.

Namaste.

[academylin]

I can bring funds... and I can run the cafe.
Namaste ???
See you later works.

[1694]

There will be a fee of $240/year to join.
The first thousand people will also have to bring $1000 each, totaling $1M in order to establish a strong and effective society. This can be in the form of Promissory Notes or cash, with the latter preferred, and a limit on how many can use the former. Simple truth is I have a plan and am confident of its success, but resources are needed and unless the people who want a change are willing to ante up, there will not be a change.

That is all.

[yozhik]

Where do I sign?

Already been discussing this with a couple of others and am definitely up for it.

[tom bombadil]

A political party then??

[pleasuredome]

is the plan as cunning as a fox who's just been appointed Professor of Cunning at Oxford University? :D

maybe this is something that we can organise at the conference

[xaroz]

When I hear/read the word 'cunning' , it always makes me think of Baldrick :D

[rob menard]

You'll love my new movie! Soon to be released!

[h2pogo]

fantastic idea .
cant wait to see the movie

[danster82]

I dont quite get what it means but I like it :confused:

Where do we find the video once it released?

[dondaz]

Looking forward to seeing more of this Rob, I think there's hope for us over here in England too, but we need to get something sorted soon. I am definately up for this type of thing happening over here. The possibilities are endless!:)

[cacadores]

Freeman Valley – We will be claiming and seizing a valley within which those who desire can join a working and stable community. This will act as an example for others in all commonwealth countries can emulate

Good luck to you.

How will you explain this to the Native American Indians who, as genuine free men, owned the valley in the first place?

Will you return it to them and assert the Freeman concept in it's original form?

[nextristan]

does the link in the first post mirror the first post? the sites been down/unavailable for the last day or two and I'm itching for some more information about this project.

I'd certainly be willing to invest $1000 to be a part of something like this.

[vostran]

That's a very simailer thing to what i've been dreaming about.

[pleasuredome]

Looking forward to seeing more of this Rob, I think there's hope for us over here in England too, but we need to get something sorted soon. I am definately up for this type of thing happening over here. The possibilities are endless!:)

i think you'd make a pretty good peace officer. i can just imagine you policing the police :D

[freemanpete]

Hi Guys.

Pete here in NZ. I am putting in my bit down here in New Zealand. We are setting up the Freeman Society of New Zealand down here in conjunction with Rob, and the Freeman Society of Canada.
We have a dedicated website for the project and it is in the very early stages.
Rob had the presentation this weekend in north Vancouver and a video will be available to view online shortly.

At the moment, a simple front end has been made and behind the scenes between a few of us here we are constructing a Joomla site. This new site will facilitate a meeting place for all freeman society members and will give us all a lot to talk about.

There is a new forum also being designed and the boards are being loaded with info that will help Freeman on the Land in your area to collectively work with other societies around the world.

This is a brand new thing and Robs Very Cunning Plan has gotten people very exited down here too.

www.worldfreemansociety.org

[ag3nt5mith]

Awesome, got it book marked.

I look forward to any new developments. :)

Peace.

[dondaz]

i think you'd make a pretty good peace officer. i can just imagine you policing the police :D

Not for me mate. My ego walks a different path:D Though I like the idea of Robs version of a Peace Officer. I'll just film them as they do their honourable duty:rolleyes:

www.worldfreemansociety.org (http://www.worldfreemansociety.org/)

Great link there Freeman Pete, this is going to be something altogetherly awesomely brilliant!

[freemanpete]

Great link there Freeman Pete, this is going to be something altogetherly awesomely brilliant!

Awesomely Brilliant. Altogetherly indeed a very cunning plan.

The site that is up there at the moment, is a quick and easy one. As soon as Robs film, "Rob's Very Cunning Plan" is uploaded we will have it available to view online.

In the background, there is a Joomla! site being constructed. This is a monster compared to the sites I am used to administer. I usually use iWeb on my Mac and bish bash bosh!

Once it is up however, we will have the facility for members to post news in the front end, and also there will be a forum for general discussion and deliberation.

There is no one in charge as such. I have spoken with Rob many times now, and so as to kill any confusion, all duties in the setting up of the World Freeman Society, Freeman Society of Canada, NZ, OZ, UK and so on is down to those who want to help set it up.
PhaseTwo
This involves co-ordinating internationally with other groups in order to establish a global society of Freemen with various national chapters, securing acceptance of the various documents and securing the security of our persons as a group.

If you are interested in joining this movement send an email to freemanmenard@gmail.com and express the following.
1.Name and contact information.
2.Your abilities and assets. (Administration, Public Relations, Editing the Society News Letter, operating our Gazette, maintaining an on line presence and forum, opening the Freeman School, teaching, support, construction, raising awareness and capital, operating our cafes, etc)
3.What aspect of the plan you would like to be a part of.
4.Whether you can bring funds or only a Promissory Note.
5.If you want to be a part of the Valley.
6.Whether you are willing to be a Peace Officer.
7.Anything else you think is pertinent.

Happy New Year!

Rob
The websites, I voulenteered, as I can do an awesome deal on domain space and I like being creative. I am no Webmaster, but a master of webs and entanglement. So please accept my appologies before I fuck it up, because somewhere down the line little old imperfect me will no doubtedly press the Oops button and screw it up.

So, any webmasters around? The forum is phpBB and the main site will be Joomla! I am still waiting to get some more written material from Rob, re RVCP, but if any of you want to get together and discuss the possibilities of the UK chapter, then get your thinking caps on.
If you already have a site we can share links and all, however the Joomla site I would like to design should really have a section for ALL chapters of the society.

Robs email is in the first post and above, but for webmaster stuff, you can email me using the webmaster@worldfreemansociety.org and chip in some ideas.

Peace all and everyone!

www.worldfreemansociety.org

[cacadores]

Good luck to you.

How will you explain this to the Native American Indians who, as genuine free men, owned the valley in the first place?

Will you return it to them and assert the Freeman concept in it's original form?

By the silence, should we take it that no one is interested in returning the land to Free native peoples nor asserting the Freeman concept in it's original form? Or not?

[freemanpete]

By the silence, should we take it that no one is interested in returning the land to Free native peoples nor asserting the Freeman concept in it's original form? Or not?

We are all caretakers of this world. The N A Indians are just that, white man however did not care and just took.

We however DO care, and we are only taking the right to be caretakers as well. As people of the world, we are inherently the caretakers, no-matter where we are.

Peace.

I am sure any already free spirits will welcome new free souls and it will be 1 big happy family.

Peace.

[wise haven]

By the silence, should we take it that no one is interested in returning the land to Free native peoples nor asserting the Freeman concept in it's original form? Or not?
Just seen your post and counter post.

You have voiced the selfsame idea that I have been thinking.

This takes a longer and deeper examination and debate than is available here, I think.

I don't have any answers - but I am prepared to look for them and face those answers even if they fuck with my sensibilities.

I can't justify anything that happened to the Native Americans be it in Canada, US or S America. Anyone that tried would be naive.

These injustices happened in the past - but, more worryingly they continue to happen to indigenous peoples around the world in pretty much the same manner. We cannot change the past -but how bout all of us that want to see an end to this crap try and change the ways things are happening, still, here and now.

I don't think things have changed much in the last 400 hundred years - it is still the corporate vampires sucking the lifeblood from us all.

We can't change the past but we can stop the past repeating itself over and over and over and over again..............its gotta start somewhere....why not here with this idea? :)

[dondaz]

By the silence, should we take it that no one is interested in returning the land to Free native peoples nor asserting the Freeman concept in it's original form? Or not

The crown does not return land. One claims it for oneself. You really do need to do your research before starting baseless assertions on things of which you know not:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCy2uYi1xZc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCibSWOArVI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTrhUwHaghA

North American Indians and how they have claimed their land:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)


http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)


http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)


http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)


http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)


http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)


http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...)

The natives of New Zealand are doing the same, as you will see if you took the time to look into it. Pretty soon millions will be claiming thier independance and land and rightly so!

[freemanpete]

Kia Ora.

Here in NZ the Maori (who hate being called natives, as they actually ate the natives, being the Moriori way back in the day) anyway, they have been making their claims through the Waitangi Treaty of 1840.
The English, bulshitted the Maori into signing a bullshit treaty, and have laid claim to Aotearoa (Land of the Long White Cloud) or New Zealand as we know it.
Well recently in the last 30 or so years, the first Maori became lawyers, and realised they had been hoodwinked.
So Claim after Claim has been made, and so far a good half of New Zealand has become Aotearoa, sovereign Maori Land.
The protocols are slightly different here re the Crown, but the essence is the same. The Crown (a Corporation and legal fiction) pretends to be all powerful and own everything. Well this is a BIG FUCKING LIE, they don't.
They only do, if you say so.
I say no.
40,000 Maori say no!
(they didn't say no because I said no)

So, learn the word "NO" and practice it. 40,000 Maori is about 1% of the population of New Zealand.

[micklemus]

Kia Ora.

The Crown ... pretends to be all powerful and own everything. Well this is a BIG FUCKING LIE, they don't.
They only do, if you say so.
I say no.
40,000 Maori say no!
(they didn't say no because I said no)

So, learn the word "NO" and practice it.

[my emphasis added]

Absolutely. Very much with you on the above points.

[yozhik]

Kia Ora.

So, learn the word "NO" and practice it. 40,000 Maori is about 1% of the population of New Zealand.

Kia Ora Pete!

Maori is approx. 14% of total population, yes?
So does this mean the other 13% are not included in the action? Or not interested? :rolleyes:

[freemanpete]

Kia Ora Pete!

Maori is approx. 14% of total population, yes?
So does this mean the other 13% are not included in the action? Or not interested? :rolleyes:

I would say, a lot of the Maori, like most people are too preoccupied in running the mill than taking a step back and trying to find change.
They have been kept down the social ladder far too long. People who are down, have no hope. This is the ideal situation the government wants. Helpless hopeless people.

There are a lot of Maori waking up, but this information is not mainstream............ yet:D

[freemanpete]

The crown does not return land. One claims it for oneself. You really do need to do your research before starting baseless assertions on things of which you know not:

LOTS OF LINKS TO NOWHERE???

The natives of New Zealand are doing the same, as you will see if you took the time to look into it. Pretty soon millions will be claiming thier independance and land and rightly so!


Hi Darren,

those links were all, err... How shall I say.... Doh!

[yozhik]

I would say, a lot of the Maori, like most people are too preoccupied in running the mill than taking a step back and trying to find change.
They have been kept down the social ladder far too long. People who are down, have no hope. This is the ideal situation the government wants. Helpless hopeless people.

There are a lot of Maori waking up, but this information is not mainstream............ yet:D

As strange as it may sound, I have only VERY recently discovered that I too have Maori ancestry ... it was one of those little family secrets swept under the carpet for generations. :D

Someone was a little naughty with extra-marital, covert, nocturnal operations ... if you know what I mean :rolleyes: ... problem being that the little maiden who was caught with a little pakeha bun in the oven, was in fact a little Ngai Tahu Princess ... ooops! :rolleyes:

Anyway ... needless to say, I'm trying to find out as much history as I can from my mother ...

[dondaz]

Sorry 'bout the link. They are to Winston Shrouts vids where native indians talk about how they have claimed their land back. Very interesting but you will have to watch the whole series as they come in and out of it throughout, but well worth watching!

Looking for the other links I have!

[wise haven]

Sorry 'bout the link. They are to Winston Shrouts vids where native indians talk about how they have claimed their land back. Very interesting but you will have to watch the whole series as they come in and out of it throughout, but well worth watching!

Looking for the other links I have!

I think that he was referring to the links as being dead dondaz....

They just don't seem to work Daz :(

[cacadores]

The crown does not return land. One claims it for oneself. You really do need to do your research before starting baseless assertions on things of which you know not:

Lots of links to nowhere

The natives of New Zealand are doing the same, as you will see if you took the time to look into it. Pretty soon millions will be claiming thier independance and land and rightly so!
[/SIZE]

To make a 'claim' you admit of a counter-claim: basic 'Freeman' logic.

One Thousand people from across Canada will be required to set up this society for the millions who will join.
There will be a fee of $240/year to join.
The first thousand people will also have to bring $1000 each, totaling $1M in order to establish a strong and effective society. This can be in the form of Promissory Notes or cash, with the latter preferred, and a limit on how many can use the former

So if a free-born Canadian Indian wishes to live on this land - his ancesters land, he would have to pay $240/year plus $1000 for the privilege?

:confused:

[rob menard]

So if a free-born Canadian Indian wishes to live on this land - his ancesters land, he would have to pay $240/year plus $1000 for the privilege?

Can you show me where anyone even suggested something like this? If you can't then you are clearly a troll. What logic if any supports such a question? Seriously how old are you to even think like that? You really have to stretch to find something to hold as a flaw don't you?

Unbelievable your mindset is.

Rob

[cacadores]

So if a free-born Canadian Indian wishes to live on this land - his ancesters land, he would have to pay $240/year plus $1000 for the privilege?
Can you show me where anyone even suggested something like this?

Here:

There will be a fee of $240/year to join.
The first thousand people will also have to bring $1000 each, totaling $1M in order to establish a strong and effective society. This can be in the form of Promissory Notes or cash, with the latter preferred, and a limit on how many can use the former.

and here:

If the idea of having to pay fees to be a member of a society does not appeal to you then simply do not join.

If you can't then you are clearly a troll.So, clearly I'm not.:) But I'm not the first person who's had cause to point out the unhelpful ad homina nature of your contributions, Rob.

''Even if they have managed to label him objectively, they still haven't grappled with the truth or falsity of his 'statements.' ''

[rob menard]

I see absolutely no mention of the need to pay us to live free. I see no way to infer that either. It was neither mentioned specifically nor implied.
Where does it say anything happens if they don't pay?
Where did I even try to generate division based on heritage? That is not me doing that.
If they wish to be a member, they will pay dues like anyone else. That is equality.
Incidentally, there are already groups of people you have pigeon holed as 'natives' becoming members.

Rob

[cacadores]

Re: Do native peoples have to pay you to live on their land?

I see absolutely no mention of the need to pay us to live free. I see no way to infer that either. It was neither mentioned specifically nor implied.
Where does it say anything happens if they don't pay?
.......If they wish to be a member, they will pay dues like anyone else. That is equality.
Rob

Fair enough Rob. I wish it success: I'm simply asking for clarification. Perhaps you can clear up the implication native peoples have to pay:

Freeman Valley will be run by 'the first 1000 members':

.
Freeman Valley – We will be claiming and seizing a valley within which those who desire can join a working and stable community. This will act as an example for others in all commonwealth countries can emulate.
All of these will be established and created and run by the first 1000 members after they form into groups for those purposes

To be one of 'the first 1000 members' you have to pay quite a lot of money:

.
There will be a fee of $240/year to join.
The first thousand people will also have to bring $1000 each, totaling $1M in order to establish a strong and effective society. This can be in the form of Promissory Notes or cash, with the latter preferred

So, if you are a native person, you clearly have pay to be one of the ones running the community in the valley.

And presumably, since the community will seize the land, a native person might (although this is unclear) need permission to live in Freeman Valley which includes this community:

If the idea of having to pay fees to be a member of a society does not appeal to you then simply do not join.

So just to clear this up:

will Canadian Native peoples have to pay to live in a Canadian 'Freedom Valley', or can they do so free of charge, as their ancesters did?

Is the 'Freedom Valley' community to be run by an unelected oligachy (the first 1000 members paying 1000 dollars each) or can native peoples without money vote?

Will there be a democratic franchise beyond the oligachy (the first 100 members) in the running of Freedom valley - or will the oligachy persist into future generations?

It's a great idea, and I hope you can clear up my worries.

[rob menard]

Fist of all, why should you care you are not even here. Secondly, I do not know what you mean by Native Canadians. You mean someone born here right? Such as myself and so many others? Or do you wish for people to divide themselves based on heritage or skin color?

If you cannot define the delineation then why should I abide it? What benefit to anyone is there in dividing ourselves thus? If me and my friend 'Running Bear' decide we are both 'natives of the land' who are you to say otherwise? If someone who wishes to consider themselves 'native' does not have the power to stop me from doing the same then are we not both native?

Your entire argument is based upon the most ignorant, spiritless and divisive thoughts that have ever burdened mankind, and you ask us how we will carry that load. We won't. People with mindsets like yours will be left behind, along with the baggage of 'native' and 'non-native'.

Rob

[pinkgrapefruit]

Hi Rob, an Honour to post to you.

I love what you are doing and would dearly love to be part of it.

I live in the UK and am hoping that your Plan can migrate over here very soon if not, can I come over to your country and be part of your Society over there.

All I want to know is... where do I sign?

[rob menard]

Go to worldfreemansociety.org

There are chapters forming in the British Isles too, so you won't have to move!

Rob

[cacadores]

No need to be so defensive, Rob: I said I wish you well and I meant it. They're just questions..... it's how we find things out. :rolleyes:

Re: The Original Freemen: will they have to pay you to live on their own land?

I do not know what you mean by Native Canadians.

Sorry Rob - out of order: Native Canadians themselves WANT to be identified, whether they call themselves First Nations or Indians (as in the Constitution). Denying the existance of Native peoples has gone hand in hand with their genocide as most of us know, and I'm surprised someone here is suggesting playing that game. The question is about free-born people who freely identify themselves as:

For example, in Alberta:

Ermineskin Cree Nation
Blood Tribe - Kainaiwa
Buffalo Lake Metis
Horse Lake First Nation
Kapawe'no First Nation
Little Red River Cree Nation
Mikisew Cree First Nation
Piikani Nation
Siksika Nation
Stoney Nation
Chiniki Nation
Weslely Nation
Tsut T'ina Nation
Tsuu T'ina Nation
West Moberly First Nation


or in British Columbia as:

Nadleh Whut'en
Alexis Creek people
Namgis First Nation
Cheslatta Carrier Nation
(Nee)Nii-Tahi-Buhn
Chilcotin Nicola Tribal Association
Nuu-chah-nulth
Hagwilget Village people
Nuxalk Nation
Heiltsuk Nation
Homalco Indian Band Okanagan Nation Alliance
Osoyoos
Upper Similkameen
Lower Similkameen
Upper Nicola people
Huu-ay-aht First Nations
Red Bluff Indian Band
Kitamaat Village Saik'uz First Nation
Kitasoo
St. Mary's Indian Band
Shuswap Nation Tribal Council
Soda Creek people
Canim Lake people
Canoe Creek people
Alkali Lake people
High Bar people
Pavilion people
Bonaparte people
Skeetchestin
Kamloops
Whispering Pines people
North Thomposon people
Adams Lake people
Little Shuswap
Nesk Onlith
Spallumcheen
Shuswap
Kitselas
Sliammon First Nation
Stellat'en First Nation
Ktunaxa/Kinbasket Tribal Council Takla Lake First Nation
Takla
Kwakiutl Laich-Kwil-Tach K'ómoks Nations
Mamalillikulla
Tlowitsis
Wei Wai Kai
Wei Wai Kum
Kwiakah
K'ómoks
Te'mexw
Songhees
Nanoose
T'Sou-ke
Malahat
Lake Babine Nation
Tl'azt'en Nations
Lakahahmen Indian Band
Tobacco Plains Indian Band
Lax-kw'alaams
Riske Creek, BC
Lheit Lit'en Nation
Tsawwassen First Nation
Lhoosk'us Dene Tseshaht First Nations
Lower Kootenay
Ulkatcho Indian Band
Lytton Indian Band
Wet'suwet'en Nation
Métis Nation

The question, and it's an important one, is whether free-born First Nation Indians will have to pay you to live in 'Freedom Valley'. First indications are that you say they will - but I'm asking you for clarification:


So just to clear this up:

will Canadian Native peoples have to pay to live in a Canadian 'Freedom Valley', or can they do so free of charge, as their ancesters did?

Is the 'Freedom Valley' community to be run by an unelected oligachy (the first 1000 members paying 1000 dollars each) or can native peoples without money vote?

Will there be a democratic franchise beyond the oligachy (the first 100 members) in the running of Freedom valley - or will the oligachy persist into future generations?

It's a great idea, and I hope you can clear up my worries.

[rob menard]

No need to be so defensive, Rob: I said I wish you well and I meant it. They're just questions..... it's how we find things out. :rolleyes:

Re: The Original Freemen: will they have to pay you to live on their own land?



Sorry Rob - out of order: Native Canadians themselves WANT to be identified, whether they call themselves First Nations or Indians (as in the Constitution). Denying the existance of Native peoples has gone hand in hand with their genocide as most of us know, and I'm surprised someone is suggesting playing that game. The question is about free-born people who freely identify themselves as:

For example, in Alberta:

Ermineskin Cree Nation
Blood Tribe - Kainaiwa
Buffalo Lake Metis
Horse Lake First Nation
Kapawe'no First Nation
Little Red River Cree Nation
Mikisew Cree First Nation
Piikani Nation
Siksika Nation
Stoney Nation
Chiniki Nation
Weslely Nation
Tsut T'ina Nation
Tsuu T'ina Nation
West Moberly First Nation


or in British Columbia as:

Nadleh Whut'en
Alexis Creek people
Namgis First Nation
Cheslatta Carrier Nation
(Nee)Nii-Tahi-Buhn
Chilcotin Nicola Tribal Association
Nuu-chah-nulth
Hagwilget Village people
Nuxalk Nation
Heiltsuk Nation
Homalco Indian Band Okanagan Nation Alliance
Osoyoos
Upper Similkameen
Lower Similkameen
Upper Nicola people
Huu-ay-aht First Nations
Red Bluff Indian Band
Kitamaat Village Saik'uz First Nation
Kitasoo
St. Mary's Indian Band
Shuswap Nation Tribal Council
Soda Creek people
Canim Lake people
Canoe Creek people
Alkali Lake people
High Bar people
Pavilion people
Bonaparte people
Skeetchestin
Kamloops
Whispering Pines people
North Thomposon people
Adams Lake people
Little Shuswap
Nesk Onlith
Spallumcheen
Shuswap
Kitselas
Sliammon First Nation
Stellat'en First Nation
Ktunaxa/Kinbasket Tribal Council Takla Lake First Nation
Takla
Kwakiutl Laich-Kwil-Tach K'ómoks Nations
Mamalillikulla
Tlowitsis
Wei Wai Kai
Wei Wai Kum
Kwiakah
K'ómoks
Te'mexw
Songhees
Nanoose
T'Sou-ke
Malahat
Lake Babine Nation
Tl'azt'en Nations
Lakahahmen Indian Band
Tobacco Plains Indian Band
Lax-kw'alaams
Riske Creek, BC
Lheit Lit'en Nation
Tsawwassen First Nation
Lhoosk'us Dene Tseshaht First Nations
Lower Kootenay
Ulkatcho Indian Band
Lytton Indian Band
Wet'suwet'en Nation
Métis Nation

The question, and it's an important one, is whether free-born First Nation Indians will have to pay you to live in 'Freedom Valley'. First indications are that you say they will - but I'm asking you for clarification:

No more then anyone else. Which is Nothing. Dues are for administration and standard operating costs. As for the $1000 you seem to be fixating upon, it is not to be a part of the society, which everyone will have to pay, but to set up initial infrastructure. We are striving to have that money treated like a no-interest loan to the society. I am putting up $1000 myself.

Should they, because they consider themselves 'X' get to be a part of our organization, have the same benefits and not pay what all else do?

As for living in the Valley, the goal of that is merely to teach all how to go about securing land by way of claim. There will be people there who did not invest the $1000 and likely some who are not even a part of our society. Not all members of the society will live in the valley, and not all who live in the valley will be members of the society.

As for the individual groups which those people divide themselves into, I say we are all members of the human race, and I have as much right to the land as they do, regardless of what happened to their ancestors by mine, or what agreements the long dead entered into. I am not bound by the agreements and contracts of the now dead. Are you? Do you claim any one is?

Peace.

Rob

PS it is true that some people wish to identify themselves as 'X' and all others as 'Non-X'. However, in cases like this, the 'X' almost always refers to 'good' or 'divine' or 'special' and the 'non-X' as 'not good', 'not divine' or 'not special'. No one who uses 'X' and 'non-X' to define themselves and others respectively ever imply that the 'X' is the bad part. I don't know how many people from those groups you have ever spoken with; I am in contact with many and I can assure you most do not wish to identify themselves as you claim. The see how the status of 'Native' and 'Non-Native' has harmed us both and empowered the corporations. They know now that status indian means ward of the state, and they like myself seek a greater degree of unity, not separation.

[cacadores]

So, clarification, based entirey upon Rob Menard's answers (read them above):

In the past, a freeborn Native Indian could live on his own land for free and call it his sovereign territory.

Under your sceame however,

1) if a freeborn Native Indian wants to live on the land you will take (which previously belonged to his people) he now has to pay. He loses his freeborn rights and enters into debt...........

2) The 'Freedom Valley' community to be run by an unelected oligachy (the first 1000 members paying 1000 dollars each).

3) There is no vote for anyone outside the oligachy, even if they live there.

4) If shares in the first 1000 members can be passed on, then the unelected oligachy will persist into future generations based upon property, not free rights.

5) People with 'mindsets' the leaders disapprove of (quoting directly from Rob), 'will be left behind.'

6) Native peoples will lose their heritage (the 'baggage of 'native' and 'non-native').


I think its pretty clear where this is at. Thanks.

[rob menard]

Cacdores where you been? And why you back now spreading lies?
For the record I never said or implied any of the things that cacadores seems to think. His brain does not work well it appears and when I say "We are equal" to him that means I am denying someone else their heritage.

Everything he posted is a strawman argument. He says those things, not I. He wants to assign them to me, so he can then knock them down and claim he won the argument.

1- Not true, never said or implied that.
2- Not true, never said or implied that.
3- Not true, never said or implied that. Never even talked about voting or decision making.
4- What colour is the sky on your planet? Have you been diagnosed as paranoid or delusional? Not true, never said or implied that.
5 - Not true, never said or implied that. Some people grow, some do not. If you refuse to grow, you leave yourself behind. And no one judges you for it or leaves you behind as punishment. But by your mindset, one you are demonstrating, you get left behind when it comes to spiritual understanding.
6 - Not true, never said or implied that. Dude, you are completely off your rocker.

Bye Bye
Rob

[ricko]

One day, he'll learn Rob :)

[girlgye]

Full credit going to Robert-Arthur:Menard

http://thinkfreeforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=105&t=4517

Rob's Very Cunning Plan

The purpose of this thread is to inform and invite and not to debate the merits of the plan or the need for a society. If it is not your cup of tea, then simply refrain from commenting or opining and refrain from spitting in something that others do want. If the idea of having to pay fees to be a member of a society does not appeal to you then simply do not join. If the concept of needing resources to accomplish a plan is offensive to you then feel free to show how things can be bought without anything to exchange. If you feel that you should have an equal say in how this thing is started (not run) then I invite you to do so by formulating your own plan and then we can compare yours to mine and see where there are similarities and potential problems. Also recognize there are those who do not want to see this happen and will seek to undermine it all the while trying to sound like they support the idea of freedom. The fact is however, we need 1000 people to make it happen, and if they all want an equal say, it will never happen. This will be one of the first weapons those who seek to derail will use. Even though they have not created the plan, or one of their own, they will claim that because they do not have a say in some aspect that it is a dictatorship and thus they will try to create division using those tools.

Once the society is up and running then it will be governed democratically in much the same way as existing professional associations are. Until then however, although input will be sought and hoped for, the path I have defined will not be open to debate. How we take the steps on that path will be.

This is a Five Step Plan and will be revealed in full publicly when the accompanying movie and paperwork are completed.
Step One: (Actually Step #2 – you will see what I mean when I release the movie)
Phase One
Establish the Framework for a Global Society of Freemen
One Thousand people from across Canada will be required to set up this society for the millions who will join.
There will be a fee of $240/year to join.
The first thousand people will also have to bring $1000 each, totaling $1M in order to establish a strong and effective society. This can be in the form of Promissory Notes or cash, with the latter preferred, and a limit on how many can use the former. Simple truth is I have a plan and am confident of its success, but resources are needed and unless the people who want a change are willing to ante up, there will not be a change.

A full and complete Business Plan and Strategy will be available to those interested in joining. Those who have in the past denigrated the idea of a society of Freemen are not invited to join or to even comment, as I will be keeping an eye out for those whose only intent is to derail this society at its inception.

Members will eventually enjoy all the following:
Identification Cards – This will be the proof which rests on them.
Notary Public- We will have our own Notary Publics to witness the NUI and COR process.
Education – The Freeman Society Canada will provide educational and support services on line and through regular meetings.
Laissez Passer – Just like a Passport, except for Freemen who are traveling without intent to engage in commerce in the host country.
Support – A 1 800 number with recording and witness and legal support available 24/7
Banking – Working with experts in the field, we will set up a bank and credit union for the safe and secure storage and use of individual wealth.
Freeman Traveler and PACLIP – This is the Blue Plate Traveler with a system of identification using our own numbers and plates joined with PACLIP “Private Automobile Collision Liability Insurance Program”
Canadian Common Corps of Peace Officers [C3PO] – We will be engaging our own Peace Officers drawn from our own members and from existing peace officers.
De Jure Courts – We will convene our own courts within which all are equal and charges may be confidently brought against existing courts and their agents and officers and within which the criminal code is enforced against them and disputes between us may be judicially settled.
Freeman Valley – We will be claiming and seizing a valley within which those who desire can join a working and stable community. This will act as an example for others in all commonwealth countries can emulate.
All of these will be established and created and run by the first 1000 members after they form into groups for those purposes.


PhaseTwo
This involves co-ordinating internationally with other groups in order to establish a global society of Freemen with various national chapters, securing acceptance of the various documents and securing the security of our persons as a group.

If you are interested in joining this movement send an email to freemanmenard@gmail.com and express the following.
1.Name and contact information.
2.Your abilities and assets. (Administration, Public Relations, Editing the Society News Letter, operating our Gazette, maintaining an on line presence and forum, opening the Freeman School, teaching, support, construction, raising awareness and capital, operating our cafes, etc)
3.What aspect of the plan you would like to be a part of.
4.Whether you can bring funds or only a Promissory Note.
5.If you want to be a part of the Valley.
6.Whether you are willing to be a Peace Officer.
7.Anything else you think is pertinent.

Happy New Year!

Rob

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I thought this should be post here for more exposure for this grand idea.

Go to the think free forums to follow the thread, plus it looks better there.

Have fun and enjoy.

Namaste.

I responded and just got ignored. When I first joined DIF I was given due credence - then ignored. So either Rob Menard has formed some opinion of me I don't know.
So I personally think this is a great idea but I won't be joining.
I think with the experiences I've had so far. I'm just gonna go it alone.
Although I'm happy to help anyone who is in the same situation as me. Please feel free to mail me.

Thanks.

My victory may not be yours.

[wildhorse]

I would love to join in a community like this (UK)

its def a step in the right direction and ok, it may find it needs tweaking along the way, but as long as the tweaking is done calmly and fairly then it could be a great learning experience and a wonderful way to live.

Beats the scraps flung at us via the pigs in no.10

*thinks big*

[scotfree]

I would love to join in a community like this (UK)

*thinks big*

I too think big NO community has lasted or not become corrupt.

If you know differant I will join it.

[rob menard]

I responded and just got ignored. When I first joined DIF I was given due credence - then ignored. So either Rob Menard has formed some opinion of me I don't know.
So I personally think this is a great idea but I won't be joining.
I think with the experiences I've had so far. I'm just gonna go it alone.
Although I'm happy to help anyone who is in the same situation as me. Please feel free to mail me.

Thanks.

My victory may not be yours.

I am sorry if I ignored you. Certainly was not my intent to ignore anyone. I did get swamped and the woman doing the admin had a family issue and she passed off her duties to another, not without some problems, but now we are getting it happening, I think.

Rob

[wildhorse]

I too think big NO community has lasted or not become corrupt.

If you know differant I will join it.

wasnt meaning the community being "big" btw.

I know what you mean tho...but when I think of communities as such I dont think like a load of new agers in a commune somewhere. However, where I am living now, the community is a good spirited one, and we all pull together in the village.

I would love to live in a community that has the mindset of being completely detatched from the governments apron strings. I live on my own on the moors so its halfway there for me. The older residents have had 70 odd years of goverment conditioning albeit through scraps when they have been forced out of their farming business, but they have also been around when life was very different and not so corrupt. They see what its all about these days, and its about money. They dont like it, but dont see what else they can do to put their own money on the table.

It gives me hope that it can be done in total freedom of knowledge which is the clincher.

In the end we create our own reality and I know that much from my own experiences. I also just get the feeling that something [good] is around the corner so to speak, for most of us. :)

[girlgye]

I am sorry if I ignored you. Certainly was not my intent to ignore anyone. I did get swamped and the woman doing the admin had a family issue and she passed off her duties to another, not without some problems, but now we are getting it happening, I think.

Rob


Ok. You said you would do a conference here in Liverpool and I never heard back from you. My apologies for doubting you but I've had some dubious experiences of late.