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dankai

30-12-2008, 06:58 PM

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The Anne Frank Diary Fraud

by Brian Harring

When Harriet Beecher Stowe wrote Uncle Tom's Cabin, she did so prompted by the highest of motives. Yet she, herself, relates the incident that when she first met Abraham Lincoln in 1863, he commented "So you are the little woman who wrote the book that made this great war!"

Few will deny that the printed word in this instance fanned the flames of passion which brought about one of the bloodiest and saddest wars of American history, with brother sometimes pitted against brother, father against son. Perhaps if there had been less appeal to the emotions the problems might have resolved themselves through peaceful means. However, almost universally read at the time, few people then recognized the potency of one small book or the injustice done the South through its wide acceptance as a fair picture of slavery in the South.

Propaganda, as a weapon of psychological warfare is in even wider use today. Communists were masters of the art. Often they used the direct approach; just as often they employed diversion tactics to focus the eyes and ears of the world in directions other than where the real conflict was being waged. For many years, through propaganda alone, the dead threat of Hitler and Nazism had been constantly held before the public in a diversion maneuver to keep attention from being directed against the live threat of Stalin, Khrushchev and Communism.

Such has been the effect, if not the deliberate intention of many who have promoted its distribution, of a book of popular appeal-The Diary Of Anne Frank. It has been sold to the public as the actual diary of a young Jewish girl who died in a Nazi concentration camp after two years of abuse and horror.

Many Americans have read the book or seen the movie version, and have been deeply moved by the real life drama it claims to present. But have we been misled in the belief that Anne Frank actually wrote this diary? And if so. should an author be permitted to produce a work of fiction and sell it to the world as fact, particularly one of such tremendous emotional appeal?

The Swedish journal Frio Ord published two articles commenting on The Diary of Anne Frank. A condensation of these articles appeared in the April 15, 1959 issue of Economic Council Letter, as follows:

“History has many examples of myths that live a longer and richer life than truth. and may become more effective than truth.

The Western world has for some years hem made aware of a young Jewish girl through the medium of what purports to he her personally written story, "Anne Frank's Diary." Any informed literary inspection of this book has shown it to have been impossible as the work of a teenager.

A noteworthy decision of the New York Supreme Court confirms this point of view, in that the well known American writer, Meyer Levin, has been awarded $50.000 lo he paid him by the father of Anne Frank as an honorarium for Levin's work on the "Anne Frank Diary."

Mr. Frank, in Switzerland, had promised to pay to prominent Jewish author, Meyer Levin. not less than $50,000 because he had used the literary creation of author Levin in toto, and represented it to his publisher and the public as his late daughter’s original work.

Inquiry of the County Clerk. New York County. as to the facts of the case referred to in the Swedish press, brought a reply on April 23, 1962, giving the name of a New York firm of lawyers as “attorneys .far the respondent.” Reference was to ”The Dairy of Anne Frank 2203-58.”

A letter to this firm brought a response on May 4, 1962 that “Although we represent Mr. Levin in other matters, we had nothing to do with the Anne Frank case.”

On May 7, 1962, came the following reply from a member of a firm of New York lawyers to whom the original inquiry had been forwarded:

“I was the attorney for Meyer Levin in his action against Otto Frank and others. It is true that a jury awarded Mr. Levin $50,000 in damages, as indicated in your letter. That award was later set aside by the trial justice. Hon. Samuel C. Coleman. on the ground that the damages had not been proved in the manner required by law. The action was subsequently settled between the litigating parties, while an appeal from Judge Coleman’s decision was pending.

I am afraid that the care itself is not officially reported, so far as the trial itself, or even Judge Coleman’s decision, is concerned. Certain procedural matters were reported. both in 141 New York Supplement. Second Series 170. and in 5 Second Series 181. The correct file number in the New York County Clerk‘s office is 2241-1956 and the file is probably a large and full one which must include Judge Coleman’s decision. Unfortunately, our file is in storage and 1 cannot locate a copy of that decision as it appeared in the New York Law Journal early in the year 1960.”

The Diary Of Anne Frank was first published in 1952 and immediately became a bestseller. It has been republished in paperback, 40 printings. It is impossible to estimate how many people have been touched and aroused by the movie production.

Why has the trial involving the father of Anne Frank, bearing directly on the authenticity of this book, never been "officially reported"? In royalties alone, Otto Frank has profited richly from the sale of this book, purporting to depict the tragic life of his daughter. But is it fact, or is it fiction? Is it truth or is it propaganda? Or is it a combination of all of these? And to what degree does it wrongfully appeal to the emotions through a misrepresentation as to its origin?

School publications for years have recommended this book for young people, presenting it as the work of Anne Frank. Advertising in advance of the movie showing has played up the “factual” nature of the drama being presented. Do not writers of such editorials and promoters of such advertising, “fan the flames of hate” they rightly profess to deplore?

Many American Jews were shocked at the handling of the Eichmann case, the distortions contained in the book Exodus and its movie counterpart, but their protests have had little publicity outside of their own organ, Issues, by the American Council for Judaism. Others who have expressed the same convictions have been charged with anti-Semitism. Yet it is to be noted that both Otto Frank and his accuser Meyer Levin, were Jewish, so a similar charge would hardly be applicable in pursuing this subject to an honest conclusion..

File number 2241-1956 in the New York County Clerk’s office should be opened to the public view and its content thoroughly publicized. Misrepresentation, exaggeration, and falsification has too often colored the judgment of good citizens. If Mr. Frank used the work of Meyer Levin to present to the world what we have been led to believe is the literary work of his daughter, wholly or in part, then the truth should be exposed.

To label fiction as fact is never justified nor should it be condoned.

Since actual period documentation does not exist in support of the Holocaust myth, it has always been incumbent on its supporters to create it.

Not only is the “Anne Frank” diary now considered to be a fake, so also is “The Painted Bird” by Jerzy Kosinski. This book, which is a mass of pornographic and sadistic imagery which, had it not been taken so seriously by the Jewish community, would be merely the pathetic manifestation of a self-serving and very sick person.

This was duly exposed as a shabby, though much revered (by the Jewish community) and quoted, fraud. When this was exposed, Kosinski committed suicide. Later, in Kosinski’s footsteps we find the next fiction entitled “Fragments, ” by a Swiss Protestant named Bruno Dosseker who spent the war in Switzerland as a young child. Dosseker posed as a very young Baltic Jewish concentration camp inmate named Binjamin Wilkomerski. This work consists of allegedly fragmented “memories” and is very difficult to read

Dosseker became the poster boy for the Holocaust supporters and was lionized by the international Jewish community, reaping considerable profit and many in-house awards for his wonderful and moving portrayal of German brutality and sexual sadism.

Another book, allegedly by a Hungarian doctor, concerning his deportation from Budapest in 1944 and subsequent journey by “Death Train” to Auschwitz is another fraud. There was never such a doctor in Hungary during the period involved and the alleged route of the train from Budapest to Auschwitz did not exist.

These sort of pathetic refugees from the back wards seem to be drawn to the Holocausters…and they to them. There are now “Holocaust Survivors” as young as thirty which is an interesting anomaly because the last concentration camp was closed in 1945. Perhaps they consider the last frenzied spring sale at Bloomingdale’s department store to be what they survived.

Next we can expect to see a book based on twenty-seven volumes of secret diaries prepared on a modern word processor within the current year by an alleged inhabitant of the Warsaw ghetto, describing the Nazi slaughter of tens of millions of weeping Jews by means that would shame a modern African state.

And, predictably, the publication of these howlers would be greeted with joy on the part of the fund raisers and fanatics, praised in the columns of the New York Times and scripted by Steven Spielberg for a heart-wrenching and guaranteed Oscar-winning film.

Hundreds of thousands of DVD copies will be donated to American schools and the Jewish community will demand that subservient executive and legislative bodies in America create a Day of Atonement as a National Holiday to balance the terrible Christian Christmas and the wickedly Satanic Halloween.

Conservationists must hate these books because so many otherwise beautiful and useful trees are slaughtered for their preparation

Insofar as the Anne Frank diary is concerned, herewith is some background on Anne Frank, her family and her alleged Diary.

The Franks were upper class German Jews, both coming from wealthy families. Otto and his siblings lived on the exclusive Meronstrasse in Frankfurt .Otto attended a private prep school, and also attended the Lessing Gymnasium, the most expensive school in Frankfurt.

Otto attended Heidelberg University. After graduation he left for a long vacation in England.

In 1909, the 20 year old Otto went to New York City where he stayed with his relatives, the Oppenheimers.

In 1925 Anne's parents married and settled in Frankfurt, Germany. Anne was born in 1929. The Frank's family business included banking, management of the springs at Bad Soden and the manufacture of cough drops. Anne's mother, the former Edith Holländer, was the daughter of a manufacturer.

In 1934, Otto and his family moved to Amsterdam where he bought a spice business, Opekta, which manufactures Pectin used in making household jellies.

On May 1940, after the Germans occupied Amsterdam Otto remained in that city while his mother and brother moved to Switzerland. Otto remained in Amsterdam where his firm did business with the German Wehrmacht. From 1939 to 1944, Otto sold Opeka, and Pectin, to the German army. Pectin was a food preservative, and a anti infectant balm for wounds and as a thickener for raising blood volume in blood transfusions. Pectin was used as an emulsifier for petroleum, gelatized gasoline for fire bombing. By supplying the Wehrmacht, Otto Frank became, in the eyes of the Dutch, a Nazi collaborator.

On July 6, 1942 Otto moved the Frank family into the so-called 'Secret Annex'. The annex is a three story, mostly glass townhouse that shares a garden park with fifty other apartments.

While he was allegedly in hiding, Otto Frank still managed his business, going downstairs to his office at night and on weekends. Anne and the others would go to Otto's office and listen to radio broadcasts from England.

The purported diary begins on June 12, 1942, and runs to December 5,1942 . It consists of a book that is six by four by a quarter inches . In addition to this first diary, Anne supplemented it with personal letters. Otto said Anne heard Gerrit Bolkestein in a broadcast say: ~ "Keep a diary, and he would publish after the war", and that's why Anne’s father claimed she rewrote her diaries second time in 1944.

In this second edition, the new writer changed, rearranged and occasionally combined entries of various dates.

When Anne allegedly rewrote the diaries, she used a ball point pen, which did not exist in 1945, and the book took on an extremely high literary standard, and read more like a professional documentary than a child's diary. In Anne's second edition her writing style, and handwriting, suddenly matured

The actual diary of Anne Frank contained only about 150 notes, according to The New York Times, of October 2 ,1955.

In 1944, German authorities in occupied Holland determined that Otto Frank had been swindling then via his extensive and very lucrative Wehrmacht contracts. The German police then raided his apartment attic, and the eight Jews were sent to Westerbork work camp and forced to perform manual labor .Otto himself was sent to Auschwitz.. Anne, her sister Margot, and her mother, subsequently died of typhus in another camp.

In 1945, after being liberated from German custody, Otto returned to Amsterdam, where he claimed he found Anne's diary cleverly hidden in the Annex's rafters. However, another version has a Dutch friend, Meip Geis finding Anne's diary of fictional events, which she then gave to Otto Frank.

Otto took what he claimed were Anne's letters and notes, edited them into a book, which he then gave to his secretary, Isa Cauvern, to review. Isa Cauvern and her husband Albert Cauvern , a writer, authored the first diary.

Questions were raised by some publishers as to whether Isa and Albert Cauvern, who assisted Otto in typing out the work used the original diaries or whether they took it directly from Mr. Frank's personal transcription.

American author, Meyer Levin wrote the third and final edition

Meyer Levin was an author, and journalist, who lived for many years in France, where he met Otto Frank around 1949.

Born in 1905, Meyer Levin was raised in the section of Chicago notoriously known in the days of gangster warfare as the "Bloody Nineteen Ward." At the age of eighteen he worked as a reporter for the Chicago Daily News and during the next four years became an increasingly frequent contributor to the national literary magazine, The Menorah Journal. In 1929 he published THE REPORTER, which was the first of his sixteen novels.

In 1933 Levin became an assistant editor and film critic at the newly-created Esquire Magazine where he remained until 1939

Perhaps his best-known work is COMPULSION (1956), chronicling the Leopold and Loeb case and hailed by critics as one of the greatest books of the decade. The compelling work was the first "documentary novel" or "non-fiction novel.”

After the enormous success of COMPULSION, Levin embarked on a trilogy of novels dealing with the Holocaust. The first, EVA (1959) was the story of a Jewish girl's experiences throughout the war and her adjustment to life after the concentration camps. This was followed by THE FANATIC (1963), which told the hypnotic story of a Jewish poet dealing with the moral questions that arose from his ordeal at the hands of the Nazis. The last in the triptych, THE STRONGHOLD (1965), is a thriller set in a concentration camp during the last days of the war.

At the outset of World War II Levin made documentary films for the US Office of War Information and later worked in France as a civilian expert in the Psychological Warfare Division. He eventually became a war correspondent for the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, with the special mission of uncovering the fate of Jewish concentration camp prisoners. Levin took his role very seriously, sometimes entering concentration camps ahead of the tanks of the liberating forces in order to compile lists of the survivors.

After the war Levin went to Palestine and turned his attention again to the motion picture camera. His film MY FATHER'S HOUSE told the story of a child survivor searching for his family in Palestine. He wrote this story as a novel as well and the book was published in 1947.

Levin also joined the Hagana underground and helped smuggle Jews from the interior of Poland to Palestine, then basically an Arab country under the control of the British..

In 1951 Levin came upon a copy of the French edition of the Anne Frank diary He made a number of attempts to have the work published in English, and conceived it as a play and film. When the diary finally found an American publisher, his play was accepted for production but then suddenly barred, ostensibly for being "unstageworthy," and another writer's version was commissioned.

Levin fought for the rights to perform his version of the play, claiming that the real reason the producers refused to stage his work was because they thought it "too Jewish." He saw the suppression of the play as an extension of the Stalinist attack on Jewish culture and, outraged that even Anne Frank could be censored, he took the producers to court and began an agonizing, prolonged struggle that dragged on for years.

Levin eventually won a jury award against the producers for appropriation of ideas, but the bitterness of the trial made him many enemies in the Jewish and literary communities.

Although Levin's version of the play is still banned by the owners of the dramatic rights, underground productions of the work are frequently staged throughout the world.

Meyer Levin died in 1981

Levin rewrote the various post-war treatments of the Anne Frank diary with an eye toward a Broadway production, but Otto decided to cut him out, refusing to honor his contract or pay him for his work. Meyer Levin sued Otto Frank for his writings, and the New York Supreme court awarded Meyer Levin $50,000, for his 'intellectual work'.

In 1980, Otto sued two Germans, Ernst Romer and Edgar Geiss, for distributing literature denouncing the diary as a forgery. The trial produced a study by official German handwriting experts that determined everything in the diary was written by the same person. The person that wrote the diaries had used a ballpoint pen throughout. Unfortunately for Herr Frank, the ballpoint pen was not available until 1951 whereas Anne was known to have died of typhus in 1944.

Because of the lawsuit in a German court, the German state forensic bureau, the Bundes Kriminal Amt [BKA] forensically examined the manuscript, which at that point in time consisted of three hardbound notebooks and 324 loose pages bound in a fourth notebook, with special forensic equipment.

The results of tests, performed at the BKA laboratories, showed that “significant” portions of the work, especially the fourth volume, were written with a ballpoint pen. Since ballpoint pens were not available before 1951, the BKA concluded those sections must have been added subsequently.

In the end, BKA clearly determined that none of the diary handwriting matched known examples of Anne's handwriting. The German magazine, Der Spiegel, published an account of this report alleging that (a) some editing postdated 1951; (b) an earlier expert had held that all the writing in the journal was by the same hand; and thus (c) the entire diary was a postwar fake.

yozhik

02-01-2009, 02:50 PM

Ok I am attempting to wade through all this, starting with phantoms original thread regarding this and there is LOADS of info so thank you all...

one thing that I cant work out at this stage is WHY though?

What do the Zionists gain by embellishing these details? Is it so that they can always fall back on anti semitism? the moment anyone challenges anything they can call you a jew hater and shut you up?

Thats the only think I can see for now...
What do you seasoned researchers of the Holocaust think?

I actually find it fascinating to learn that everything we were taught is a lie....

What do they gain?

1. The state of Israel. Zionism has the creation/existence of a "homeland" at its core. Look through 20th Century history, you will see the establishment of the state of israel at the very core of Zionism.

2. Money. How much is the Holohoax industry worth? Billions. How much "compensation" have the "victims" received since WWII? Billions. Just look at the amount German taxpayers are forced to pay for the alleged crimes of the Nazis. How much money do the holohoax museums collectively rake in? The grants, the donations, the "compensations", the book royalties for the Zionist authors ... add it all up. Quite a nice little industry has been established on deceptions and lies.

3. Justification for present and future crimes. Look at the atrocities committed by the state of Israel, and yet noone dare question the poor unfortunate Jews, for they, as the aggrieved peoples, would NEVER be guilty of such horrors as were perpetrated against them, would they?

4. The impenetrable forcefield. Question Israel, you get labelled an anti-semite. Question the holohoax, you get labelled an anti-semite. Question the corruption of the Jewish lobbyists, you get labelled an anti-semite. Get the picture? being labelled an anti-semite is a "branding" that is never removed, nor is it, as we have been brainwashed to believe, forgiveable. For, to be an anti-semite, is to be a Nazi and guilty of the holohoax itself. If you are anti-semitic, you may as well have poured the (non toxic) pellets (cough) into the (non existent) gas chambers (cough) yourself; such is your crime.

eternal_spirit

02-01-2009, 02:55 PM

Good post^^

I think I'm thought of as the biggest Nazi on this site. I am proud to have some German genes.

eternal_spirit

02-01-2009, 03:04 PM

Good post^^

I think I'm thought of as the biggest Nazi on this site. I am proud to have some German genes.
I studied the revisionist material in depth and much of what they say rings true. Posted a lot of info about it all.

You wouldn't believe some of the older threads on here (many in the rantroom) the amount of name calling etc. (you would if you'd debated such topics in depth with fanatical Jews or those brainwashed by Jewish propaganda)
Then there's the Zionist, Freemasonic connections and Talmud all about Judaism.

dragond

02-01-2009, 06:22 PM

name calling only comes from people without much knowledge or people who seem to benefit from the actual lies they try to protect.. any decent person who has no knowledge or have some would not resort to a namecalling or any negative way of putting the person down as a means to win a debate or arguement.. i for one can believe one thing but if somebody comes and debates with me where the person shows me alternative ideas or knowledge to mine i would gladly accept my wrongs and try to find out the truth..so therefor no namecalling or swearing or cussing from me..

D

queenofleon

02-01-2009, 06:47 PM

What do they gain?

1. The state of Israel. Zionism has the creation/existence of a "homeland" at its core. Look through 20th Century history, you will see the establishment of the state of israel at the very core of Zionism.

2. Money. How much is the Holohoax industry worth? Billions. How much "compensation" have the "victims" received since WWII? Billions. Just look at the amount German taxpayers are forced to pay for the alleged crimes of the Nazis. How much money do the holohoax museums collectively rake in? The grants, the donations, the "compensations", the book royalties for the Zionist authors ... add it all up. Quite a nice little industry has been established on deceptions and lies.

3. Justification for present and future crimes. Look at the atrocities committed by the state of Israel, and yet noone dare question the poor unfortunate Jews, for they, as the aggrieved peoples, would NEVER be guilty of such horrors as were perpetrated against them, would they?

4. The impenetrable forcefield. Question Israel, you get labelled an anti-semite. Question the holohoax, you get labelled an anti-semite. Question the corruption of the Jewish lobbyists, you get labelled an anti-semite. Get the picture? being labelled an anti-semite is a "branding" that is never removed, nor is it, as we have been brainwashed to believe, forgiveable. For, to be an anti-semite, is to be a Nazi and guilty of the holohoax itself. If you are anti-semitic, you may as well have poured the (non toxic) pellets (cough) into the (non existent) gas chambers (cough) yourself; such is your crime.

Yes, thank you, this is becoming apparent.

Ok so help me with the difference between zionists and jews?

I know that was extremely thick of me, but if you dont ask you dont get!

thanks in advance

accuracy

03-01-2009, 04:54 AM

http://nazigassings.com/

try this site.:)

An excellent site! ;)

fantomcat

03-01-2009, 09:15 PM

yozhik

03-01-2009, 10:12 PM

Yes, thank you, this is becoming apparent.

Ok so help me with the difference between zionists and jews?

I know that was extremely thick of me, but if you dont ask you dont get!

thanks in advance

In very basic terms;

Zionism is an international political movement that originally supported the re-establishment of a homeland for the Jewish People in Palestine .

A Jew is a member of the Jewish people, an ethnoreligious group originating from the Israelites or Hebrews of the ancient Middle East. The Jewish people and the religion of Judaism are strongly interrelated.

Zionist is to Jew, as Hamas is to Muslim.
Both political groups.

accuracy

05-01-2009, 09:40 AM

As much as there is only limit evidence on this subject, i would defo say that this did happen!! you could never lie about something like that!!!
your can go see the death camps yourself. in Poland, and no birds fly over there - what does that tell you???

;)

It's the propagnda that you want to believe, as it's obvious that you're refusal to check out this thread's excellent sites for scrutiny?

Naw!
Just continue on barking. :rolleyes:

accuracy

05-01-2009, 09:53 AM

accuracy

05-01-2009, 10:14 AM

Just checking my signature........:)

sophia_h

05-01-2009, 03:21 PM

`

Very simply put, YOU tell us why :cool:

good one accuracy !

rememeber:

Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's Propaganda Minister said,
"The bigger the lie, the more it will be believed."

This referred not to any holohoax as it wasnt yet invented
It referred to how the international banksters had run their
lies for centuries and most people were fooled as most people
basically are so TRUSTING they wont question and so
TRAUMATIZED over thousands of years they bow to any
"authority".

BIG LIES, ala nine one one .

and the Reichstag Fire.

:rolleyes:

.

sophia_h

05-01-2009, 04:30 PM

`

Thanks nick@noon

Simple Arithmetic
vs. the 6 Million Myth

by Liberty Bell Publications,
Reedy, W. Virginia

Having read emotional letters from Jewish
writers in the press, I feel compelled to
comment myself.

I am acquainted with military history and have
read substantially on the subject. One Jewish
writer stated that he was not even alive at the
time of the Second World War. As another
writer stated, there are always two sides to the
coin. Well, I was not alive at that time either,
so it follows that the only source of
information available to the post-war
generations is history as it was written down
for us.

History has not and never will be recorded
objectively, as every historian writes
according to his own subjective view and in
his own book will try to prove his own thesis.
The mass-murder of six million Jews,
however, is a myth.

This is admitted and
proved primarily by British and American
authors, and while withholding my own
views, here is some information to consider:
According to evidence led in a paper entitled
"The Third Reich", three to four million Jews
were murdered in Auschwitz alone. This is
mathematically impossible. Auschwitz was in
operation for four years.
Let's assume only
three million people were killed here -- in one
year, that would be 750,000 or 62,500 a
month -- or 2,083 a day!

According to the German Christian
Democratic delegate, Eric Blumenfeld of
Hamburg, who was incarcerated at Auschwitz,
killings only took place at night, for reasons of
secrecy -- a period of 12 hours. Thus, 2,082
people should have been killed every 12 hours
out of 24 for 1,460 days (four years).

Assuming the corpses were buried, and seeing
that sand is four tenths heavier than the human
body (proportionately), at an average of 50
kilograms per body, 70 kilograms of sand
would be displaced per corpse [a kilogram is
equal to 2.2 pounds for practical purposes]. At
2,083 bodies a day, with a corpse mass of
104.2 metric tons, this would be 145.8 metric
tons of soil to be removed daily!
In four years, assuming there were "only" 3
million bodies buried, this would leave
212,868 metric tons of soil piled up
somewhere. Where is it?

There is also the
argument that the bodies were burned (also a
mathematical impossibility). The calculations
are based on figures and evidence from the
ultra-modern and efficient crematorium at
Dortmund in Germany.

To burn one corpse
completely requires 31½ kilograms of coal.
The 2,083 people allegedly killed in
Auschwitz daily would have required more
than 65 metric tons of coal, which was
extremely valuable to the war effort -- each
day. For Germany, this was impossible.
Burning the bodies was impossible for another
reason. In the most modern crematoriums
today, one body requires about 2½ hours to be
completely cremated. Even if Auschwitz had
had 100 burning chambers, the 3 million
corpses would have taken 15 years to cremate,
burning only in the 12-hour period each day.
Each body produces on average 2 kilograms
of ash.
Three million corpses would create
6,000 metric tons of ash. This ash, all 6,000
metric tons of it would make quite a heap.
Where were all these ash-heaps after the war?

In closing, I would like to add that all
recorded history is on paper and on paper you
can write anything, even that 6 million Jews
were killed. Paper is patient!

.

http://www.solargeneral.com/fliers/SimpleArithmetic.pdf

.

dankai

07-01-2009, 06:53 PM

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/radar_dees.jpg

dankai

07-01-2009, 07:01 PM

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/zyk_dees.jpg

dankai

07-01-2009, 07:02 PM

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/tazebook_dees.jpg

dankai

07-01-2009, 07:03 PM

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/cellblock_dees.jpg

dragond

07-01-2009, 11:31 PM

good pics dankai :cool:

D

dankai

08-01-2009, 04:05 PM

good pics dankai :cool:

D
Thanks! I saw them and remembered this thread.

queenofleon

08-01-2009, 04:24 PM

yes thank you to everyone that has helped me with this HUUUGE can of worms....still wading my way through it all.

FASCINATING STUFF!!

sophia_h

08-01-2009, 04:47 PM

`

Great New Year to you !

:)

.

sophia_h

09-01-2009, 08:42 PM

`

Of American Indians & Hitler
1-8-9

From: J Bruce Campbell
Sent: Jan 6, 2009 12:15 PM
To: Grigg
Subject: One giant rez

(To author Grigg...)

Excellent piece...

One Giant Rez (Reservation)
By William Norman Grigg

http://www.lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w69.html

The extermination of the Indians was the blueprint for the future, as you point out. The Filipinos, the Russians, the Germans, the Chinese, the Vietnamese and Cambodians, the Africans, the Iraqis, etc etc. Millions upon millions of dead following the American extermination program against the Indians, which continues to this day.

I disagree with your description of Hitler as a "perverted little Austrian" who emulated the American genocide program. You should examine our Morgenthau Plan for Germany before throwing stones. Read Other Losses and Crimes & Mercies by James Bacque to see what Hitler was trying to prevent for the German people, mainly because of our starvation program following WWI, in which hundreds of thousands of Germans starved to death before being rescued by Herbert Hoover, Henry Ford and Vidkun Quisling - humanitarians all.

This despite your terming the tame army Indians as "Quislings." Quisling was a highly honorable man and the perversion of his name is typical treatment for those who defy Jewish demands, such as Joe McCarthy. Hitler starved right along with them in the 1920s and gave his food to others who were in danger of dying. You should know that by now. Conservatives and Libertarians and Christians hasten to attack anyone who defies Jewish demands, to show that they can be trusted by the Jews. Kind of like tame army Indians.

The American plan was always to wipe out Germany, or at least to reduce it to its present vassal status. Hitler knew that pretty early. What would you have done in his place? What would you have done in Sitting Bull's place? How exactly would you resist the American steamroller? There is only one way, and the first step is to wipe out the brain of the machine - the Council on Foreign Relations. Hitler should have done that first and the whole annihilation program for Germany would have evaporated. Same with us. Study Samuel Untermayer's declaration of Jewish war against Germany and figure what chance Germany had, even if Hitler had resigned as Untermayer demanded.

At some point in the near future, you and others are going to have to decide if you're on the Jewish side or the anti-Jewish side.

From: David B.
Subject: Re: One giant rez
To: JB Campbell
Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009

Dear JB,

Whatever is related or interpreted about Hitler, or revealed by historical research, he was a very twisted, evil man who was enamored with power, and supremely over-confident in his abilities. You forget that he orchestrated WWII, and the killing of Americans, Poles, Russians, Africans, and other nationals. Those were your vaunted Christians, like myself. There were young men who were drawn by the millions into that conflict, mostly against their will. However, some were possessed of a patriotic fervor, and fought against what they perceived as the ultimate evil. Yes, Stalin (Jewish..), Trotsky (Jewish), and other despots have come and gone in the annals of human slaughter, but Hitler MADE himself the target of the world's population, and his legacy was not undeserved. No nation should vest so much power in an individual or office that it's citizens must blindly obey the occupants of said office. People need to protest. They need to THINK. In America, we must forcefully regain those rights accorded us by the Constitution which have been eroded under the guise of 'Anti-Terrorism", or worse, "Political Correctness". Hitler would have been the type of petty tyrant to enact such laws against dissidents, just as Stalin was, or any other tin-hat demagogue with a penchant for totalitarian rule. To put it succinctly, trust no one in public office until they are relieved of duty, and even then......

Sincerely,

David B.

From: JB Campbell
Date: January 7, 2009
To: David Baker

David,

I used to hold similar views. And I'm an American cowboy with nothing in common with Europeans. Then I began to study and came to realize that those views had been implanted in me by the usual suspects, since I was a little kid. The big liars had covered up the truth about WWI, Versailles and WWII. Hitler did NOT orchestrate WWII - he did everything possible to avoid it. He and the Germans needed permanent peace to recover from the mind-boggling crimes of Versailles AND the general world depression. The Depression was orchestrated by the Federal Reserve and the Bank of England, the same criminals who devised the Versailles rip-off.

Hitler started the German economic miracle in 1933 and by 1935 Germany was becoming prosperous, with no raw materials or farming or money to buy anything. All Germany had to trade was its high quality workmanship. The Jews led by Untermayer did everything they could to prevent trade by declaring a boycott on German goods in '33 to force Hitler to resign. The German people refused to give him up and by '35 they were taking vacations and eating regularly again, despite the Jews' second starvation program of 1933. America was wallowing in the Depression and would continue right up until Pearl Harbor.

Hitler needed peace but he also needed to nullify the dictatorship of the Versailles "Treaty." That was extremely correct and honorable. He notified the British Ambassador that the ruinous payments would cease immediately, to the outrage of the Jews. Germany had no more orchestrated WWI than they had WWII, but got the blame by the victors who had actually orchestrated both. The Jewish plan was always to destroy Germany and the German people. The Nazis were just a counterforce to this bloodthirsty program, like Hamas, Hezbollah and for that matter, the militia movement in this country a few years ago. In the face of complicity by the US government, the press and academia and industry, there are only so many methods available to protect oneself against Jewish aggression.

Hitler's party had as its number 1 platform position that the German people must be reunited after the maps had been re-drawn by the vacationing drunks at Versailles, dismembering the country and isolating the German people among hostiles. This was deliberate genocide as we understand the term today.

Churchill was hired by the big Jews, represented by Felix Frankfurter and Sir Robert Waley-Cohen, to make a war against Germany. Churchill told General Leonard Wood in '38 or so - "Germany is getting too strong again - we must smash her in another war." Wood testified to Congress about that quote. Churchill's instructions from the Jews were to go to war no matter how reasonable-sounding Hitler may be. Read Churchill's War, Vol I, by Irving. If you're like me, it will give you nightmares. Then read Churchill's Deception by Kilzer. More nightmares.

Hitler's main plan was to destroy Communism in Russia, which had been implanted there by the Wilson administration and by the German army, in combination, after WWI had started. After Wilson's and the Congress' declaration of war against Germany, Wilson collaborated with Germany to plant the Bolsheviks in Moscow to take Russia out of the war and free up German soldiers to fight Americans on the Western Front! Hitler was a highly-decorated soldier in the trenches of the Western Front for four years, while FDR was speculating on Wall Street and Churchill was getting hundreds of thousands of soldiers killed.

The war was not orchestrated by Hitler but by Roosevelt and Churchill, both totally run by the Rothschild money power. They both assured the stupid Poles that if they attacked Germany that the Anglo-Americans would back them up. So the Poles slaughtered thousands of Germans living in "Poland" and Hitler, after repeatedly warning them, had to act to protect the Germans. He'd also asked repeatedly for a corridor to allow travel between Germany and East Prussia, cut off by the Versailles drunks. The Poles said no, feeling very confident that the Anglo-Americans would back them up. They fell for it and got exactly what they deserved for their sadistic treachery.

Hitler had no plans or desire to "rule the world." That was and remains the Jewish program, which they have pretty much achieved on paper. The Jews always accuse their enemies of their own thoughts and crimes. Hitler said often that National Socialism was not for export, that it was an emergency measure to rescue Germany from the Versailles criminals and that it would fade away once Germany was back on her feet. He contemplated retiring from the job until the war was forced on Germany by the Allies.

Stalin had been secretly massing for giant attack against Europe and Hitler only barely beat him to the punch. See Icebreaker by Suverov. That was a brilliant move, wrecked by having to delay the attack by having to rescue the idiot Mussolini's blunders in Greece. The attack was destroyed by the Russian winter, which would have been beaten but for the Greek mistake. Communism would have been destroyed forever but for America's rescue efforts in the form of giving billions of dollars worth of weapons and supplies to Stalin.

Hitler was brilliant in peace but not as brilliant in war. His decisions not to allow the captured Slavs to join the Wehrmacht until it was too late, not to put the Me-262 jet fighter into production until it was too late and the demands to keep fighting at Moscow and Stalingrad, etc, and the decision to send the Jews to Palestine were not so good. But he was far superior to Eisenhower and if it hadn't been for Patton AND the treachery of some German officer-aristocrats, the Ardennes counter-attack would have destroyed the Allied invasion. That was brilliant and of course, German soldiers were far superior to the Dogfaces, the Tommies and the cannon fodder Reds.

The point was that Hitler and the Germans did not want war. They just didn't want to be abused anymore and that's what you get when you're being abused by a combination of greedy, lying murderers such as FDR, Churchill and Stalin and the finance capitalists. The Germans found a guy who would not knuckle under. But Germany, the size of Texas, just couldn't hold out against big Jewish money and armaments and millions of brainwashed gladiators. We all just barely beat them, despite our huge advantages. We will never live down our shame in doing so, on behalf of our Jewish masters.

The really twisted, evil men were FDR, Churchill and Stalin. Hitler was just a very unusual reaction to those monsters. You've really got the whole thing backwards. Approximately a million men from all over Europe joined the SS to fight Communism, even if they weren't pro-Germany. Men such as the Belgian Leon DeGrelle, whom you should study.

You have a particular animus against Hitler despite what you know about Stalin and the other aggressors. But if you take away the Holocaust fraud (that never happened), what is it about Hitler that offends you? Once you admit, after years of study, that there was no program of extermination of Jews or anyone by Germany, what have you got? My opinion is that the world would be better off today if six million Jews had been exterminated, even if there were actually only about three hundred thousand living under German control.

The International Red Cross reportedly has documents indicating a total of about 270,000 people of all kinds dying in the German camps, mostly due to our starvation program. I'm sure the people of Gaza, right this minute, wish that six million Jews hadn't invaded Palestine but had been gassed in Poland sixty years ago. The truth is, though, that no Jew was gassed or otherwise killed in an extermination program, because there was no program. Even the Jews can't come up with a program or a weapon or a dead body caused by an 'extermination program.'

So, Hitler was a dictator. So was Roosevelt, arrogantly staying on for four terms. So was Churchill. If you tried to get rid of FDR or Churchill the way we demanded the Germans to have gotten rid of Hitler (for us), you'd have been shot on sight or executed. FDR rounded up ALL of the totally innocent Japanese-Americans and put them in concentration camps for the duration, and then stole all their property. Churchill was involved in rounding up thousands of Boer women and children in South Africa and putting them in the world's first concentration camps, in which most of them died. Churchill started the deliberate terror-bombing of German civilians. Churchill masterminded the Gallipoli disaster of WWI and the Lusitania disaster and, again in league with his cousin, FDR, the Pearl Harbor disaster.

You need to read James Bacque's two books on the Morgenthau extermination program for Germany, to see who the exterminators were. Study the Morgenthau Plan before you judge Hitler further. Read Germany Must Perish! by Kaufmann, a book recommended by FDR for his D-Day war criminals. Study Operation Keelhaul and the Nuremberg tribunal and start comparing the crimes of Germany, which was acting in self-defense, with the crimes of the Anglo-American-Soviet allies, the aggressors.

I would say that no American or Englishman has the right to judge Hitler or the Germans. Our crimes against humanity are too vast to allow us to judge anyone other than the lying, warmongering Jews who maneuvered us into slaughtering our own people for them.

But Hitler constantly held referendums and was consistently supported by the German people, the Austrian people and others by over 90% approval.

I can't recall one lie ever told by Hitler, compared with Roosevelt's numerous lies ("I say it again and again and again: your sons will not be sent to die in a foreign war...", "A date which will live in INFAMY!", "The Four Freedoms!" "Go ahead, Poland - kill Germans, we'll come to your aid." "We can trust Stalin.") And of course, his statement, "Some of my best friends are Communists."

FDR and Churchill ordered the assassination of anyone who balked or might have revealed the truth about them, just to be safe, and failed numerous times to assassinate Hitler. Hitler forbade assassinations of foreign leaders. Stalin, of course, killed both of his wives and ordered the assassination of millions. So I think your view of Hitler is not justified when you look at all the facts. When you have the combined forces of the Capitalist-Communist world against you and you understand that they intend to exterminate you according to their own literature, you either get very tough or you surrender. Hitler got tough but he didn't get tough enough.

From: JB Campbell

http://www.rense.com/general84/amind.htm

.

onourwayto2012

09-01-2009, 09:31 PM

Thanks sophia...your posts have been very informative. One thing's for sure, if it's the "Offficial Story" it's bullsh*t.

sophia_h

09-01-2009, 10:43 PM

orwell101

09-01-2009, 10:46 PM

`

Thank YOU! onourwayto2012

I have arrived at a place where I dont even think
I am cynical anymore!

I just take it as a given that the "official story" on ANY
topic is almost all BS. :rolleyes:

was a time I figured at least the location and time in a news
report were actual but now I even suspect those utterances
from MSM!

lies! and damned lies ! :D

`

Sophia, I very much enjoy your posts, although some things still trouble me about the Nazis and the holocaust. I know the Nazis did not kill 6 million Jews, but do you think it would have been wrong if they did?

sophia_h

09-01-2009, 10:50 PM

`

Nazi themes dominate movie fare

World War II films are back in vogue with no fewer
than six vying for box office bucks.

( its NOT WW2 films, ..its anti NAZI films ! .. anti German films. S )

In US theatres - with Australian cinemas soon to follow - are The Boy in the Striped Pajamas, which tells the story of a forbidden friendship between the son of a Nazi officer and a Jewish boy imprisoned in a concentration camp; The Reader, which stars Kate Winslet as a former concentration-camp guard on trial years after the war; and Adam Resurrected, which follows a Holocaust survivor (Jeff Goldblum) living in a mental institution.
Valkyrie, which opened on Christmas Day, stars Tom Cruise as a German officer who heads up a plan to kill Hitler.

It has drawn sharp criticism for its lack of reference to the Holocaust, and has been labelled by some as “Nazi apologia”.

And two more Nazi-oriented films are set to open: Defiance stars Daniel Craig and Liev Schreiber as brothers who battle the Nazis from a secret hideout in the woods, and Good features Viggo Mortensen as an academic and novelist reluctantly enticed into the SS fold after he's approached to write some mild propaganda for the Nazi party.

It seems strange that such dark movies are being released during the levity of the holiday season.

“Much of it is awards-driven,” said Paul Dergarabedian, president of Media By Numbers, which tracks box-office totals.

“Downer movies come out this time of year as a reflection of the fact that people are vying for Oscars.”
Indeed, Holocaust-themed holiday releases have fared well with academy voters for decades.

Sophie's Choice, a December release in 1982, earned five Oscar nominations and a win for star Meryl Streep.
Schindler's List was nominated for 12 Oscars and won seven - including best picture - after its release in December of 1993.

The Pianist opened two days after Christmas in 2002.

It was nominated for seven Oscars and won three, including best actor for star Adrien Brody and best director for Roman Polanski.

“These movies take you on an emotional roller-coaster ride,“ Dergarabedian said.

“They're powerful, moving, and Oscar loves that.”

The Holocaust and World War II are rich landscapes for exploring moral issues and human costs, and such stories resonate with filmmakers and awards voters alike, said Steve Pond, author of the 2005 book The Big Show: High Times and Dirty Dealings Backstage at the Academy Awards.

World War II-themed movies have been winning Oscars since the year after the war ended, Pond noted.

In 1946, The Best Years of Our Lives won seven of the eight Oscars for which it was nominated, plus a special award given to supporting actor Harold Russell “for bringing hope and courage to his fellow veterans” by appearing in the film.

“The Holocaust is such an irredeemable monstrosity, you can't get more extreme or more evil than that,” Pond said. “For a dramatist dealing in conflict, it's sort of an irresistible topic to be drawn to.”

The current state of the world inspires continued interest in these themes, said Rabbi Marvin Hier, founder and dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Centre.

“Here we are, 63 years after Auschwitz, and we can't open up a paper or read an article that doesn't involve another episode of man's inhumanity to man somewhere in the world: suicide bombings, Mumbai, Darfur,” he said.
“The Holocaust is a ripe subject for writers and directors to present on the screen issues that resonate even today as we cross into 2009.”

AP
LOS ANGELES

http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=5&ContentID=115719

.

sophia_h

09-01-2009, 11:13 PM

`

Sophia, I very much enjoy your posts, although some things
still trouble me about the Nazis and the holocaust.
I know the Nazis did not kill 6 million Jews, but do you think
it would have been wrong if they did?

yes of course

no one should commit mass murder and the NSDAP did NOT

no SANE person would support mass murder as we see now
the accusers/whinere are doing in Palestine

there was NO holocaust
I lived before and during the war
it did NOT happen
look at the many posts here by some well educated Folks
that show conclusively it is one huge HOAX

I am anti war

I see it as a desperate last resort if an enemy cant accept
offered compromises as Hitler offered to FDR and Churchill
there is now collected and available enough irrefutable proof of the
lies and distortions, forgeries and frauds to make the Germans look
eeeevil. Its a very old agenda to destroy the BEST and BRIGHTEST
of the Gentiles. It dates well before the WW2 era

The HATE for and FEAR of Germans. Look up Herminius. Those troops
that got their tails whupped were backed by the jew bankers even
then as almost every war in history has been.

after AFTER the second world war there WAS MASS MURDER
done to the German people, many women and children and a lot
of men who were never even i n the military or joined any Partei.

ALL of it has been proven but those who control the banks also
control the media so get to spew the lies endlessly, ad nauseum
so two generations ave grown up knowing ONLY the jew view
which we know is exaggerated out of any possibility.

the inevitable result is the OTHER SIDE will come up for air and
the kids who have been FORBIDDEN some materials wonder WHY
they cant access those materials and go seeking. ;)

They are doing so in growing numbers, Blessed Be !
The NS parties are growing all across Europe .
NS candidates are winning seats in many elections.

sind wir wieder steigen!

Before His departure, Adolf Hitler uttered these prophetic words:
“It is necessary that I should die for my people; but my spirit
will rise from the grave, and the world will know that I was right.”

http://www.theneworder.org/hitler_phenom/hitler_lives.html

.

orwell101

09-01-2009, 11:29 PM

`

yes of course

no one should commit mass murder and the NSDAP did NOT

no SANE person would support mass murder as we see now
the accusers/whinere are doing in Palestine

there was NO holocaust
I lived before and during the war
it did NOT happen
look at the many posts here by some well educated Folks
that show conclusively it is one huge HOAX

I am anti war

I see it as a desperate last resort if an enemy cant accept
offered compromises as Hitler offered to FDR and Churchill
there is now collected and available enough irrefutable proof of the
lies and distortions, forgeries and frauds to make the Germans look
eeeevil. Its a very old agenda to destroy the BEST and BRIGHTEST
of the Gentiles. It dates well before the WW2 era

The HATE for and FEAR of Germans. Look up Herminius. Those troops
that got their tails whupped were backed by the jew bankers even
then as almost every war in history has been.

after AFTER the second world war there WAS MASS MURDER
done to the German people, many women and children and a lot
of men who were never even i n the military or joined any Partei.

ALL of it has been proven but those who control the banks also
control the media so get to spew the lies endlessly, ad nauseum
so two generations ave grown up knowing ONLY the jew view
which we know is exaggerated out of any possibility.

the inevitable result is the OTHER SIDE will come up for air and
the kids who have been FORBIDDEN some materials wonder WHY
they cant access those materials and go seeking. ;)

They are doing so in growing numbers, Blessed Be !
The NS parties are growing all across Europe .
NS candidates are winning seats in many elections.

sind wir wieder steigen!

Before His departure, Adolf Hitler uttered these prophetic words:
“It is necessary that I should die for my people; but my spirit
will rise from the grave, and the world will know that I was right.”

http://www.theneworder.org/hitler_phenom/hitler_lives.html

.

I take it you supported the Nuremberg laws though?

sophia_h

09-01-2009, 11:42 PM

orwell101

10-01-2009, 12:06 AM

`

Of course.

Is this now your personal inquisition into some way to make
me out a murderer of a non existent jewish mass?

Have you ever actually READ the Neuremberg Laws?

I have, many times, and it is in those very laws that proof of AH
plans for the jews show conclusivley there was no DEATH
camps for them. He expected to assilimate them as he wanted
their finer qualities in the New Germany. The Laws were for ALL
non Germans, not just jews.

If you KNEW this you would see how unfounded your
arrogant question is!

.

What on earth is arrogant about my question? I did not mention anything about the Nuremberg laws being the same as the holocaust. Why would there be plans for Death camps in a law that had nothing to do with Death camps? Were there plans for Death camps in fashion magazines? No. Because that is not what they were about! LOL.

But I thought you were a neo-nazi, however you don't appear to know a great deal about these laws. You can't even spell Nuremberg. Are you a fake? Hmmm. It was the laws that made Jews into "non-Germans". Jews were Germans before that and even fought for their Fatherland in WWI. !

I wonder, did the laws prohibit marriage between Germans and non-Germans? e.g. A German and a Czech, or just between Germans and Jews?

sophia_h

10-01-2009, 12:55 AM

`

First, I am NOT a neo NAZI

I have stated what I am by philosophy

second, you show your ignorance by attacking my spelling

third you do not know the laws by your statements here

The jews were, as were all NON Germans, 3/4 of a citizen

IF a jew did not breed with another jew for THREE GENERATIONS
which meant he or she had to breed with Germans!!...
then AH believed by the third generation the genes would be
diluted and they would be great citizens of the Reich
so the Laws say by following this rule the jews descendants
become full German citizens with all rights and privileges.

Since this is written in the laws it is definite proof AH had planned
for those jews who CHOSE to STAY to be there AFTER the war!
So much for any DEATH camps.

There was fairness in those laws as many jews said and wished
to live there and see thier kids grow up and become full Germans

if you knew what the jews had done to Germany you would see the
logic of those laws and why many jews saw the fairness of them

many nations that suffered as did Germany would have wiped out
all those TYRANTS
AH had a plan to assimilate them into the Nation !

Since you do not know these issues and have begun openly attacking
me, I wil not deal with your inane drivel and lack of respect any longer!

I have stated on this board I pay respects to babblers and
then walk away.

You have shown yourself to be a babbler of illinformed diatribe.
Take your ignorance and disrespect elsewhere. :rolleyes:

.

scotfree

10-01-2009, 01:27 AM

I spent a year or so studying Auschwitz

Read: Spectator in Hell: A British Soldier's Extraordinary Story of Imprisonment in Auschwitz
Arthur Dodd

arthur dodds auschwitz - Google Search

There were 600 UK soldiers in Auschwitz.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In 2002 I met in Dundee, Scotland, Zoe Polanska-Palmer
who wrote:
Yalta Victim: Amazon.co.uk: Zoe Polanska-Palmer: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ruO0UZamL.@@AMEPARAM@@41ruO0UZamL

The writer's experience of being taken prisoner by the Germans in World War II at 13, her life in concentration camps and her remarkable escape journey out of Germany, towards Austria, into Italy, then back into central eastern Europe only to find herself a potential victim of the Yalta Agreement is horrific, gripping and inspiring.

She was a Russian Christian and was supposed to be sent back to Russia by the Allies after the war but managed to come to UK.

She is/was more angry at the Brittish than the Germans.
She told me a few truths.

HOLOHO$X

astrochicken

11-01-2009, 11:36 AM

She is/was more angry at the Brittish than the Germans.
She told me a few truths.

HOLOHO$X

Dinnae leave us hingin' like this..... expound.

rydeon

12-01-2009, 07:01 PM

I spent a year or so studying Auschwitz

Read: Spectator in Hell: A British Soldier's Extraordinary Story of Imprisonment in Auschwitz
Arthur Dodd

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=arthur+dodds+auschwitz&btnG=Search&meta=

There were 600 UK soldiers in Auschwitz.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In 2002 I met in Dundee, Scotland, Zoe Polanska-Palmer
who wrote:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Yalta-Victim-Zoe-Polanska-Palmer/dp/1851580018

The writer's experience of being taken prisoner by the Germans in World War II at 13, her life in concentration camps and her remarkable escape journey out of Germany, towards Austria, into Italy, then back into central eastern Europe only to find herself a potential victim of the Yalta Agreement is horrific, gripping and inspiring.

She was a Russian Christian and was supposed to be sent back to Russia by the Allies after the war but managed to come to UK.

She is/was more angry at the Brittish than the Germans.
She told me a few truths.

HOLOHO$X

A buddy of mine recounted a story that the Russian soldiers who'd joined the Germans and then been captured by the allies faced a grim fate. Repatriation agreement meant they would be sent back to mother Russia into Stalins clutches once more.
More than a few deliberately grew their thumb nails during the ocean journey to Russia so as to slit their own throat than face Stalins death squads.

thankyoudave

12-01-2009, 07:37 PM

The idea that all people who question the official story of the Holocaust are far right/racist/nazi's is wearing thin. They're (Zionists) exposing themselves by the day.

Sadistic
Arrogant
Deceitful Son of a bitches!

astrochicken

12-01-2009, 10:49 PM

A buddy of mine recounted a story that the Russian soldiers who'd joined the Germans and then been captured by the allies faced a grim fate. Repatriation agreement meant they would be sent back to mother Russia into Stalins clutches once more.
More than a few deliberately grew their thumb nails during the ocean journey to Russia so as to slit their own throat than face Stalins death squads.

You're friend was probably referring to General Helmuth von Pannwitz who had an entire cavalry regiment of germans and russian cossacks .
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1975-099-15A%2C_Russland%2C_Kosaken_in_der_Wehrmacht.jpg

Rather than surrendering themselves to the russians who would have killed them all on the spot, he surrendered, after recieving assurance that they would be treated as allied POW's, to the allies.

As the treaties with native americans have shown, the white man speaks with forked tongue. The german general was offered to remain an allied pow, but his men were to be handed over to the russians. He chose to stay with his men and they were all subsequently hanged and shot by the russians.

Read up on "General Helmuth von Pannwitz" .. that was one amazing person.

dankai

25-01-2009, 06:49 PM

More for your research:

http://www.ejpress.org/article/34062

marpat

25-01-2009, 07:33 PM

http://nazigassings.com/

try this site.:)

That site is a bit biased though. Talking about Britain and the US killing women and children. Germany did bomb towns. They also used the prototypes of modern cruise and ballistic missile, the V1 and V2, to attack civilians. All sides during the war killed women and children. Aerial bombing back then was very hit and miss. It is know that bombers often dropped their payloads miles from target due to bad navigation, etc.

My wife has a relative who saw such a place during the war and was left scarred for life by his experience so obviously something was going on.

sophia_h

25-01-2009, 10:24 PM

`

That site is a bit biased though .
Talking about Britain and the US killing women and children. Germany did bomb towns. They also used the prototypes of modern cruise and ballistic missile, the V1 and V2, to attack civilians. All sides during the war killed women and children. Aerial bombing back then was very hit and miss. It is know that bombers often dropped their payloads miles from target due to bad navigation, etc.
My wife has a relative who saw such a place during the war and was left scarred for life by his experience so obviously something was going on.

My wife has a relative who saw such a place during the war and was left scarred for life by his experience so obviously something was going on

your wifes relatives reactions to his conditioning is no proof of
anything "going on "

That site is a bit biased though

that site is one of the most comprehensive on the web

any bias is in your view

It is know that bombers often dropped their payloads miles from target due to bad navigation, etc.

source?

***

http://www.nazigassings.com/

site of Paul Frederich Berg

http://www.youtube.com/user/holodenier

a minute section of a huge index

Key Reference Works and Links.

Flanagan, Wootton, Smith & Goff “An Unusual Case of Carbon Monoxide Poisoning"
Griffin, Ward, Terrell, Stewart: “Diesel Fumes DO Kill: A Case of Fatal Carbon Monoxide Poisoning Directly Attributed to Diesel Fuel Exhaust . . . ”
Holtz, Elliott: “The Significance of Diesel-Exhaust-Gas Analysis”
Danto: “The Man with a Red Face”
Pattle, Stretch, Burgess, Sinclair, & Edginton: “The Toxicity of Fumes from a Diesel Engine under Four Different Running Conditions”

Pressac: AUSCHWITZ: Technique and operation operation of the gas chambers
Risser, Bönsch, & Schneider: “Should Coroners Be Able to Recognize Unintentional Carbon-Monoxide Related Deaths Immediately at the Scene?”
Tsunenari, Kanda, Yonemitsu, Yoshida; "Suicidal carbon monoxide inhalation of exhaust fumes"

Attack on USS Libery--Newest Revelations in Chicago Tribune in 2007
VHO
Völkische Reichsbewegung Fantastic (auf Deutsch)
Ernst and Ingrid Zuendel
The Rudolf Report by Germar Rudolf
Viva Malta discussion forum
Walter Rauff affidavit from 1972--a repudiation of the Gas Van "evidence" (German text)
Walter Rauff affidavit from 1972 -- a repudiation (English translation)

No Jews were Gassed (video)NEW
Sweet Liberty about the Kol Nidre prayer and Israel
Ziopedia

Enemies of Truth--but well worth examining because
of their sometimes useful reference materials

Nizkor
US Holocaust Museum
Yad Vashem
US National Archives
Yankiel Wiernik -- A Year in Treblinka

American Gas Chamber Executions
Link to More than 1000 other Death Penalty Links
Methods of Execution--6 to 18 minutes per gas execution
Death Penalty Information Center
Cruel and Unusual
Mr. Death: The Rise and Fall of Fred A. Leuchter, Jr. (video)
Animal Gas Chambers using Carbon Monoxide

******

The research is impeccable
globally recognized for his thurough research
refrenced by scholars among whom are many jews

The photo collection is huge

have you actually visited and studied at the site
or just posting your non informed opinion?

why not have a go at it and then debate whether
it is biased or not??

choose any article
any of his sources

PBS is doing the Vienna Philharmonic
I can sit here another hour ;)

any topic from his site

any one....

:)

`

ayomide

25-01-2009, 10:31 PM

http://www.amnotes.net/index.html

Holocaust = payback

God's chosen people my ass!

lightgiver

27-01-2009, 12:57 AM

Sorry if this has been posted before, but through my research I have stumbled across claims that the Holocaust was not what it was , and I have not really looked into it any further than that.

Can anyone please help me with info , links etc?

And what is the general consensus on this? I do not wish to offend anyone ok , I am only asking for peoples opinions and sources.

Thanks in advance

The term holocaust comes from the greek,meaning sacrifice to the GODS,

The term holocaust originally derived from the Greek word holókauston, meaning a "completely (holos) burnt (kaustos)" sacrificial offering to a god. Its Latin form (holocaustum) was first used with specific reference to a massacre of Jews by the chroniclers Roger of Howden and Richard of Devizes in the 1190s. Since the late 19th century, it has been used primarily to refer to disasters or catastrophes.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49022

fnulnu

27-01-2009, 05:46 AM

Re-reading this thread...tonight,I've been reflecting upon the sudden upsurge in public figures who are openly questioning the holocaust.
At present we have bishops and others whos views are being broadcast on the MSM (albeit with horrified undertones of "oh,what an outrageous thing to say!").
I have to wonder if the ground isn't being prepared for somesort of revelation.The Holocaust is being brought into mainstream consciousness and I actuallly do not think it's simply the zionist-controlled media trying to out the bishop et al as "nazis" & remind the world that this is why the illegal occupation of Palestine must continue forever.
Is it at all possible that documents from that era which were classified for a term are due to be made public?
I know,it's tempting to think "heck no,that will stayed buried forever,because it concerns the chosen ones",but,I have no doubt that even they can and will be sold down the river the moment it fits a greater agenda...

fnulnu

27-01-2009, 05:54 AM

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/zyk_dees.jpg

The data mentioned here,which is being withheld from the public,for example.
As I understand it,there are set terms of classification.
Nothing will stay buried forever,no matter what TPTB may think.

halliburton crusher

27-01-2009, 06:00 AM

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=holocaust+hoax&www_google_domain=www.google.com&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f&aq=0&oq=holocaust+h#

sophia_h

27-01-2009, 08:38 AM

`

AUSCHWITZ—The Shrinking Numbers

IN THE BEGINNING, it was proclaimed that 4 million of the
celebrated "Six Million" died at this famous wartime campsite.

Then, in the face of growing skepticism, that figure was quietly
reduced by 2.5 million to 1.5 million.

Now, a final tally by the International Tracing Service of the
Red Cross estimates reliably that the total number of deaths
were less than 140,000—including those who died of old age
over a five-year period in a place comparable in size to a city
of a quarter million, where obituary pages would normally be
replete with the names of thousands who had died during a
similar time span!

Others at the internment center died of wartime conditions,
aggravated by the outbreak of typhoid and Allied bombing,
which caused disruption to the delivery of food, medicine, and
other vital supplies.

There were, however, no gassings—or gas-chamber facilities,
for that matter.

Less than half of those who died were Jews. Their names are
carefully recorded in the 46-volume death books held in the Soviet
archives and released to the Red Cross in 1989. Besides the person's
full name, these volumes document his or her profession, religion,
date and place of birth, pre-Auschwitz residence, parents' names,
time of death, and cause of death, as determined by a camp
physician.
Mass murderers do not keep such meticulous records!

-----------------------------------------

This message is brought to you in the interest of truth
and historical accuracy by the —

NEW ORDER

http://www.theneworder.org

,

astrochicken

27-01-2009, 11:23 AM

zilky

27-01-2009, 11:56 PM

This was a very interesting find. I am really interested in the Occultist symbolism which includes numerology and which is a signature all over 9/11, but also 7/7 and many other things to do with these secret socieities we may call under umbrella term, Illuminati

Check this out then:

The Origin of the Legend of the Six Million

http://www.real-debt-elimination.com/real_freedom/Propaganda/holocaust/origin_of_the_legend_of_the_six_million.htm

"In Holocaust Dogma of Judaism (1995), Ben Weintraub fully explores and explains the Kabalistic gematria and occultism involved in the number. 6,000,000 is the number of perfect souls X ten, and ten is number of the Sephiroth, the divine emanations of G_d as seen in the Kabala.

The holocaust number is a magic number numerologically predetermined, and through the dark rites of conjurers it is supernaturally empowered. So it can never, ever be changed. This is absolutely critical, a cornerstone of the black magic of the Kabballah. 6,000,000 is the magic number. There cannot be more deaths and there are never less. 6,000,000 is the number. This number is ritually repeated and publicly acknowledged as though it is a focus of worship, public worship. The satanic spell cannot work any other way. To question it or doubt it we are exorcising and demystifying this supernatural elemental that is essential to the voodoo. Six million is the exact and perfect."

enga

28-01-2009, 12:36 AM

sophia_h

28-01-2009, 12:52 AM

`

The 1919 Holocaust that Failed

You heard about the Holocaust in which 6 million Jews were killed in Nazi Death Camps.

Did you hear about the "threatened holocaust" of 6 million Jews about 20 years earlier?

Probably not, even though a former Governor of New York
wrote about it in 1919, because that early holocaust never
became a best-seller.....

In Glynn's article, we find that World War I ended "for everybody, but the Jew."

Glynn encourages the League of Nations to bring peace to the world, and he wants to "give justice to the Jew and other oppressed peoples".

However, this threatened Holocaust of 6 million Jews never became popular with the American or European public. Perhaps this is why the Zionists staged a new and improved version of the 6 million Holocaust during World War II. In this revised Holocaust, they made sure that some of the 6 million Jews were killed. This turned out to be the key to making the Holocaust a phenomenal success.

The contents of the article are below. It serves as a lesson in how not to market a Holocaust. :D

The Crucifixion of Jews Must Stop!

By Martin H. Glynn

(Former Governor of the State of N.Y.)

From across the sea six million men and women call to us for help, and eight hundred thousand little children cry for bread.

These children, these men and women are our fellow-members of the human family, with the same claim on life as we, the same susceptibility to the winter's cold, the same propensity to death before the fangs of hunger. Within them reside the illimitable possibilities for the advancement of the human race as naturally would reside in six million human beings. We may not be their keepers but we ought to be their helpers.

In the face of death, in the throes of starvation there is no place for mental distinctions of creed, no place for physical differentiations of race. In this catastrophe, when six million human beings are being whirled toward the grave by a cruel and relentless fate, only the most idealistic promptings of human nature should sway the heart and move the hand.

Six million men and women are dying from lack of the necessaries of life; eight hundred thousand children cry for bread. And this fate is upon them through no fault of their own, through no transgression of the laws of God or man; but through the awful tyranny of war and a bigoted lust for Jewish blood.

In this threatened holocaust of human life, forgotten are the niceties of philosophical distinction, forgotten are the differences of historical interpretation; and the determination to help the helpless, to shelter the homeless, to clothe the naked and to feed the hungry becomes a religion at whose altar men of every race can worship and women of every creed can kneel. In this calamity the temporalities of man's fashionings fall away before the eternal verities of life, and we awaken to the fact that from the hands of one God we all come and before the tribunal of one God we all must stand on the day of final reckoning. And when that reckoning comes mere profession of lips will not weigh a pennyweight; but deeds, mere intangible deeds, deeds that dry the tear of sorrow and allay the pain of anguish, deeds that with the spirit of the Good Samaritan pour oil and wine in wounds and find sustenance and shelter for the suffering and the stricken, will outweigh all the stars in the heavens, all the waters in the seas, all the rocks and metals in all the celestian globes that revolve in the firmament around us.

Race is a matter of accident; creed, partly a matter of inheritance, partly a matter of environment, partly one's method of ratiocination; but our physical wants and corporeal needs are implanted in all of us by the hand of God, and the man or woman who can, and will not, hear the cry of the starving; who can, and will not, take heed of the wail of the dying; who can, and will not, stretch forth a helping hand to those who sink beneath the waves of adversity is an assassin of nature's finest instincts, a traitor to the cause of the human family and an abjurer of the natural law written upon the tablets of every human heart by the finger of God himself.

And so in the spirit that turned the poor widow's votive offering of copper into silver, and the silver into gold when placed upon God's altar, the people of this country are called upon to sanctify their money by giving $35,000,000 in the name of the humanity of Moses to six million famished men and women.

Six million men and women are dying -- eight hundred thousand little children are crying for bread.

And why?

Because of a war to lay Autocracy in the dust and give Democracy the sceptre of the Just.

And in that war for democracy 200,000 Jewish lads from the United States fought beneath the Stars and Stripes. (NOT !)
In the 77th Division alone there were 14,000 of them, and in Argonne Forest this division captured 54 German guns.This shows that at Argonne the Jewish boys from the United States fought for democracy as Joshua fought against the Amalekites on the plains of Abraham. In an address on the so-called "Lost Battalion," led by Colonel Whittlesey of Pittsfield, Major-General Alexander shows the fighting stuff these Jewish boys were made of. In some way or another Whittlesey's command was surrounded. They were short of rations. They tried to get word back to the rear telling of their plight. They tried and they tried, but their men never got through. Paralysis and stupefaction and despair were in the air. And when the hour was darkest and all seemed lost, a soldier lad stepped forward, and said to Col. Whittlesey: "I will try to get through." He tried, he was wounded, he had to creep and crawl, but he got through.To-day he wears the Distinguished Service Cross and his name is

Abraham Krotoshansky.

Because of this war for Democracy six million Jewsh men and women are starving across the seas; eight hundred thousand Jewish babies are crying for bread.

(Continued from page 582)

In the name of Abraham Krotoshinsky who saved the "Lost Battalion," in the name of the one hundred and ninety-nine thousand and nine hundred and ninety-nine other Jewish boys who fought for Democracy beneath the Stars and Stripes won't you give copper, or silver, or gold, to keep life in the heart of these men and these women; to keep blood in the bodies of these babies?

The Jew Has Helped Everybody But The Jew.

In the world war the Jew has helped everybody but the Jew. "Over there" he helped in camp, in council and in conflict. "Over here" he helped the Red Cross, the Y.M.C.A., the Knights of Columbus, the Masons, the Salvation Army and everybody else. So now is the time for everybody to help the Jew, and God knows now is the time he needs it.

From out of the gloom of this war every other race, save one or two, has snatched a ray of sunshine. But amid the encircling gloom there is no light for the Jew "to lead thou me on." The war is over for everyone, but the Jew. The knife is still at his throat and an unreasoning and unreasonable century-old lust for Jewish blood opens his veins. The Jew in Roumania, Poland and Ukrainia is being made the scapegoat of the war. Since the armistice has been signed thousands of Jews in Ukrainia have been offered up as living sacrifices to diabolical greed and fanatical passion -- their throats cut, their bodies rended limb from limb by assassin bands and rabid soldiery. In the city of Proskunoff one day a few weeks ago the dawn saw the door of every house wherein lived a Jew marked as a shambles for slaughter. For four days, from sunrise to sunset, fanatics plied the dagger like demons from hell, stopping only to eat with hands adrip with the blood of Jewishvictims. They killed the men; they were less merciful to women. These they violated, and then they killed. From a purpose to a fury, from a fury to a habit ran this killing of the Jews, until within four days the streets of Proskunoff ran red with blood like gutters of a slaughter house, until its homes became a morgue for thousands of slaughtered human beings whose gaping wounds cried out for vengeance and whose eyes had turned to stone at the horrors they had seen. As Hon. Simon W. Rosendale, aptly paraphrasing Bobby Burns' thought, in his speech not long ago, said it is the age-old story of "man's inhumanity to man that makes countless thousands mourn." For as it has been at Proskunoff, so has it been in a hundred other places.The bloody tale hath repetition ad nauseum. It is the same tear-stained story -- the same old stain upon the escutcheon of humanity. Verily, Byron was right when he wrote:

Tribes of the wandering feet and weary breast
Whither shall ye flee to be at rest?
The wild dove hath her nest, the fox his cave,
Mankind their countries, Israel but the grave.

[Illegible] to a place in the sun, and the crucifixion of Jews must stop. We repeat the war is over for everybody, but the Jew. Like Isaac the knife is at his throat, but unlike Isaac no power seems able to stop the steel from thirsting for his blood. But some power the world must raise up to prevent this decimation of a deserving race. For the peace of the world a League of Nations let us have by all means; but for the Humanity of the World, to give justice to the Jew and other oppressed peoples on earth, let us have a Truce of God! -- Albany Times Union.

---------------------------------------------------

http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-references-gentile-holocaust-claim-1919-that-failed.html

.

astrochicken

28-01-2009, 07:28 AM

My Grandfather witnessed.....

My grandparents taught me about the fairies and invisible dragons.

zilky

28-01-2009, 09:44 AM

My Grandfather witnessed German nazi soldiers shoot a Jewish old man during the war in an Eastern European country which I won't specify. My Grandmother in the same country at the other side of the country witnessed mass executions of the Jewish population in a large city. The people were rounded up at dawn whether kids were crying or not, taken to a forest and shot.
My Grandfather (not Jewish) was taken to Auschwitz as were a lot of young men and women as forced labour. He witnessed many people being murdered (Jews and non-Jews) and taken to the gas chambers and he witnessed the sorting chamber for the peoples items and many other atrocities. The gas chambers ran continuously. My Grandmother was taken as forced labor to work on a farm in Germany.
I realise as far as you on here are concerned this is anecdotal evidence but it proves it conclusively for me because my Grandparents can tell me many things that happened and I have no doubt whatsoever that it is true.

My grandpa was in the First World Watr, and he told me about the horrors of having to be in the trenches, and to have to sleep standing up with cold mud up the body.
In his thigh he wad a shrapnel wound you could put your fist in.
I very much believe what he said. People don't make UP horror stories especially to their loved ones!

I have struggled with this Holocaust revisionism, I must admit. On one hand I know that the zionists in Israel, and for there, USE the Holocaust to justify THEIR evil---and that Zionism actually supported the persecution against the Jews so as to secure Zionist Israel

What are your thoughts about this?

astrochicken

28-01-2009, 01:32 PM

gm mutant

28-01-2009, 01:34 PM

Yep I know it was a false flag...

dogsmilk

28-01-2009, 02:49 PM

The data mentioned here,which is being withheld from the public,for example.
As I understand it,there are set terms of classification.
Nothing will stay buried forever,no matter what TPTB may think.

Look, I've given up 'debating' this subject here as it's a total waste of time - largely because it's time consuming and most people seem to wax lyrical about 'official history' while apparently never having taken the time the study it and think instead reading a few articles on the web is all it takes. But suffice to say, it would be interesting to hear how published data (which is drastically misrepresented in the graphic) which is actually easily available online (if you bother to look) is being 'withheld from the public'. It's totally laughable. And I mean, how fucking old is this 'news'?????
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/blue/ (1998)

Mind you, David Dees also produced a graphic with some guy in prison for questioning 'six million Jews gassed' - considering huge numbers of Jews were shot or otherwise killed and the six million figure has never meant six million Jews gassed, it just shows David Dees doesn't even know the most basic facts but nevertheless feels confident in talking shit. It just annoys me how people who know fuck-all about the Holocaust get on their high horses about 'holohoaxes'.

Just like the following post by Sophia H in which I notice utterly pitiful non-arguments about the *groan* 'reduced Auschwitz death toll' and 'Red Cross said 140,000 killed' - look love, these are moron arguments that simply betray you don't know what you're talking about, but you read some bullshit on the internet and believed it because you're gullible. Just as with your pro-Hitler crap (which I do enjoy as it's so stultifyingly ignorant of the history of the Third Reich), turn off your computer for a bit, buy some books and sit back and realise for all your waffle about people's 'programming' you look very, very silly to anyone with a basic grasp of history.

In the meantime, you are of course aware Raul Hilberg estimated the Auschwitz death toll at around what it's thought to be today back in 1961 and the four million figure was simply not taken seriously by Western historians for decades - the story of how all this happened is well known and you can easily find out about it if you bother to read books and stuff.
Similarly, the Red Cross never pretended to know exactly how many people were killed and it should be immediately obvious to anyone not cursed with learning difficulties that any figures they produced about specific deaths they were aware of in places they had access to was in no way representative of deaths par se. But they were aware of death camps and they did talk about them at the time. They have actually apologised for their relative inaction, though it's also fair to say there was not much they could do - their position was very precarious. Perhaps you should take a break from measuring your skull to confirm your Aryan status or whatever and try reading the Red Cross and the Holocaust by Jean-Claude Favez. Just a thought.

Oh and by the way - everyone knows the death books did not record gassings - why would they when they recorded deaths of registered inmates? They do however debunk the 'everyone died of typhus' bollocks you get and - unless you believe Auschwitz was medically unique regarding mystery epidemics of 'heart attacks' and the like for people of a very young age - corroborate prior testimony stating registered inmates were frequently murdered and their cause of death recorded in such a way.

runciter

28-01-2009, 03:12 PM

Yep, and while the international zionists stand on the sidelines with everyone else and state "That's despicable, how could *they* have lied for so long?", the JEWS, yet again, are being sold down the river.

...and for the masses, yet again, the jews will be the scapegoats.
End of Story. Nothing to see. Move along please.

i suspect the rothschilds are preparing a mass sacrifice of israeli khazars.

sophia_h

28-01-2009, 03:51 PM

fnulnu

28-01-2009, 04:12 PM

Look, I've given up 'debating' this subject here as it's a total waste of time - largely because it's time consuming and most people seem to wax lyrical about 'official history' while apparently never having taken the time the study it and think instead reading a few articles on the web is all it takes. But suffice to say, it would be interesting to hear how published data (which is drastically misrepresented in the graphic) which is actually easily available online (if you bother to look) is being 'withheld from the public'. It's totally laughable. And I mean, how fucking old is this 'news'?????

I did study that period in history in depth as a teenager,actually.I am not prepared to disclose personal information here,but suffice the say,I have been to Yad Vashem and if you'd bothered to glance at any of my postings,aside from the one made as an afterthought,you would know I do not deny the holocaust.

I do not for one moment believe that 6 million Jews were murdered - sorry- but in my eyes,The Holocaust does not belong to them.
Did the Gypsies take ownership of it and invade Afghanistan and hold the indigenous people hostage or expell them?

I would have been murderdered by the Nazis on several counts,so,please save your rudeness.

dogsmilk

28-01-2009, 05:40 PM

`

dogsmilk

your using raul hilberg of all people shows only
your lack of knowledge

he has been proven wrong repeatedly
and even admitted so publically

as for my "reading a few sites ",
yes
many, on many topics
and research to find any alt views !

and have over thirty books written by every side
of the holohoax
among a library also on many topics other than the great lie

so your attack doesnt wash and your irritation with any
postings here that dont support your embeds is a fine display
of only your packaged thinking tied up in zionist ribbons

sorry but it is you who needs to study and give up
protecting your EMOTIONALLY BASED BELIEFS

perhaps actually look at some of the dozens of links
so many here have posted

or is it that .........

no I wont persue that line, lol.

before you lambast a poster you should know the level
of education and not project your imaginings just to assuage
your inner urgings to get real which are so obviously threatening
your emotional status quo.

.

I am not sure in what way you mean Raul Hilberg has been "proven wrong" and in what context he "admitted so publicly". What you have said is utterly meangingless. But please refrain from wheeling out Jurgen Graf's lamentable comedy effort or chuntering on crap about the Zundel trial - I've heard it all before and it wasn't impressive the first time round.

It"s interesting you come out with your typical meaningless shite about "emotional status quo" while feeling compelled to go on about "Zionist ribbons" - it's the typical knee-jerk labelling of anything that challenges your precious Nazi world as "Zionist" which is kind of ironic considering this "emotionally based" twaddle.
Listen my dear, my beliefs are quite simply not "emotionally based". You should stop using that line as it simply makes you look a twat.

If you're so well educated, why did you choose to post the ridiculous arguments you did? Were you just having a laugh? We're way off April 1st. Look, between you and me from the posts of yours I've read so far, I'm not seeing much evidence of anything other than parroting shite off a tired selection of Holocaust denial/pro-Nazi websites. But if that's your bag, that's dandy. I'm not going to waste my precious hours having a massive argument that will involve consulting texts and stuff with some anonymous deluded Nazi online. That is so last year for me.

I did study that period in history in depth as a teenager,actually.I am not prepared to disclose personal information here,but suffice the say,I have been to Yad Vashem and if you'd bothered to glance at any of my postings,aside from the one made as an afterthought,you would know I do not deny the holocaust.

I do not for one moment believe that 6 million Jews were murdered - sorry- but in my eyes,The Holocaust does not belong to them.
Did the Gypsies take ownership of it and invade Afghanistan and hold the indigenous people hostage or expell them?

I would have been murderdered by the Nazis on several counts,so,please save your rudeness.

No, I haven't been following the 'debate' here very keenly recently, so apologies if I inadvertently lumped you in with the "Ooh look at what i just saw on teh internets and automatically believed it" fraternity. Though I stand by my comments on how dumb David Dees and his graphic are. I just saw some bullshit and called bullshit.

]Did the Gypsies take ownership of it and invade Afghanistan and hold the indigenous people hostage or expell them?

You are of course aware that making political hay out of the Holocaust is a distinctly modern phenomenon whereas in the postwar period concentrating on Nazi atrocities generally as opposed to the specific fate of the Jews was all the rage.
Are you trying to suggest the actions of the state of Israel are somehow specifically the fault of Jews who survived the Holocaust?

I would have been murderdered by the Nazis on several counts,so,please save your rudeness.

The funny thing is, I wouldn't. In fact, I'd have cruised into the SS on racial grounds.
Sorry, but I can't help being rude sometimes. You can be as rude to me as you like; I really don't care.

I do not for one moment believe that 6 million Jews were murdered - sorry- but in my eyes,The Holocaust does not belong to them.

Well most people these days seem to go for around five million+. I really couldn't say as I'm not nearly knowledgeable to judge with confidence.
But I certainly agree folk like the Gypsies and disabled/mentally ill don't get enough attention. Though if you want to be pedantic, that's not strictly speaking the Holocaust, it's the Pharrajimos or whatever.

sophia_h

28-01-2009, 06:09 PM

dogsmilk

28-01-2009, 06:54 PM

`

dogsmilk

lol

the more you rant the more you show your lack
of information on the Great Lie

as to not liking my posts

well boo !

dont read them :cool:

but refrain from telling me to stop

that behavior is unbecoming to the quality
of this site

if members dont like others views they dont yell to STOP

you are not the arbitor of what is allowed here

there are several posts I do not agree with
and members views I find abhorrent
I just go on to the next topic

so many good posts so much great ifo
and I cant get caught up on all of it
sp choose and pick
but its fun what I can get to
I LEARN
try THAT sometime :p

your avatar says a lot.

now that you show your words to be babble
I havent any interest in furthur responding to you .

`

Yeah great - congratulations on filling so much space with meaningless rhetoric

I do like your posts. I find them entertaining.

Exactly where did I tell you to stop anything? I haven't have I? Stop making things up.

You see you rely on churning out this standard response of meandering guff when anyone disagrees with you. It's almost endearingly pathetic. Let's note you have said not one word to defend the utter bollocks you were talking in the first place. That's because you know you were talking shit and are trying to obfuscate.

Btw - extra bozoloid points for churning out a solitary article from 1919 that talks about 6 million Jews being threatened. To be honest, I didn't actually expect you to sink to that level of idiocy.

runciter

28-01-2009, 07:03 PM

Exactly where did I tell you to stop anything? I haven't have I? Stop making things up.

was it intentional?

dogsmilk

28-01-2009, 07:06 PM

was it intentional?

Was what intentional? Or this this going to be one of your little runs of cryptic posts?

dogsmilk

28-01-2009, 07:12 PM

Oh yeah -

your avatar says a lot.

Yes it does. It's Donald Sutherland in the closing moments of invasion of the body snatchers; as well as being one of the truly great film endings, it's a film with a strong subtext about isolation and alienation in urban society. Do you have a problem with that?

runciter

28-01-2009, 07:14 PM

Was what intentional? Or this this going to be one of your little runs of cryptic posts?

Exactly where did I tell you to stop anything? I haven't have I?

Stop making things up.

now?

dogsmilk

28-01-2009, 07:23 PM

Exactly where did I tell you to stop anything? I haven't have I?

Stop making things up.

now?

Look, what the hell are you going on about?

Sophia accused me of telling her/he to stop.

I pointed out I haven't.

She/he should stop making things up.

Is that not clear to you or something?

enga

28-01-2009, 07:28 PM

My grandpa was in the First World Watr, and he told me about the horrors of having to be in the trenches, and to have to sleep standing up with cold mud up the body.
In his thigh he wad a shrapnel wound you could put your fist in.
I very much believe what he said. People don't make UP horror stories especially to their loved ones!

I have struggled with this Holocaust revisionism, I must admit. On one hand I know that the zionists in Israel, and for there, USE the Holocaust to justify THEIR evil---and that Zionism actually supported the persecution against the Jews so as to secure Zionist Israel

What are your thoughts about this?

Sorry to hear about your Grandpa. WW1 was rough, I've read Wilfred Owens poems about it.
I do think that today the holocaust is trotted out as an excuse to justify the state of Israel and it's growth and zionism. I have no problem with Israel existing per se but I think that the people who set it up should have ensured that the existing population of peoples were comfortable and not pushed out. I think Israelis have had it far too much there own way though they have suffered too in the schism. I just want everyone to be happy. I even find the term 'the holocaust' slightly odd because it is not the first holocaust and there have been holocausts which have killed more people and been more extreme. I do think this has been the most calculated and meticulous, well documented holocaust though but the term 'the holocaust' seems to diminish the significance of other holocausts.

runciter

28-01-2009, 07:30 PM

stop anything / stop making things up

on the holocaust issue:

i think everyone who is interested should do his own research and decide himself.

dogsmilk

28-01-2009, 09:21 PM

stop anything / stop making things up

on the holocaust issue:

i think everyone who is interested should do his own research and decide himself.

http://benjskramer.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/businessman-banging-his-head-against-the-wall-ispc026073.jpg

runciter

29-01-2009, 08:36 AM

astrochicken

29-01-2009, 02:58 PM

reminded me of this wall

http://www.thezimbabwetimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/obama-prayer1.gif

“Lord — Protect my family and me. Forgive me my sins, and help me guard against pride and despair. Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of your will,” reads the note published in Maariv.

http://www.thezimbabwetimes.com/?p=1477

lord rothschild?

Anyone with an interest should do the research themselves.. visit the camps, talk to old people who saw it first hand, peruse the mountains of shoes, find out which books are banned and try and get them, find out who is currently imprisoned for stating whatever.

I'm a scot living in germany.

When i moved here, i was brainwashed like everyone else.

Through research (internet and per pedes and talking to a lot of old people (over here anyone OVER 70 lived the whole hitler era and some as camp guards, railway workers etc. etc.), i've come to the conclusion that the holocaust (with a capital "H".. the official 6 million gassed story") is a complete and utter fabrication.

Mass gassings did not happen.

For those who may not get to mainland europe to verifiy these claims for themselves.

The claim of revisionists is that there was no genocide as they were all primarily work camps.
Delousing chambers are claimed to be actual gas extermination chambers.
Here's a few pics to demonstrate the absurdity.

Here are delousing chambers with a clothes line hanging out front
http://f.imagehost.org/0149/astrochicken_dachau_clothes.jpg

Here is the door to a fumigation room.
For those not well-versed in german it states:
Gaszeit= Gas schedule (the times are partially obstructed by the soldiers head)
skull/crossbones = danger ;)
Vorsicht! = Caution!
Gas = Gas
Lebensgefahr! = Lethal!
Nicht Öffnen = Do not open

http://f.imagehost.org/0914/astrochicken_dachau_fumigationdoor.jpg

This is the same door, after being repainted and bolted open (as it is now)
http://f.imagehost.org/0234/astrochicken_fumigationdoor_revamp.jpg

This is the sign above the delousing chambers stating exactly what they are
ie. Fumigation cubicles
http://f.imagehost.org/0628/astrochicken_fumigationdoor_sign.jpg

Now those doors, sealed as they are, prevent any zyklon-b (used for delousing) from seeping out.

And now we come to the actual despicably evil nazi german gas chambers in Auschwitz (violin-crescendo and enter little girl with red dress from stage left)

http://f.imagehost.org/0429/astrochicken_auschwitz_door.gif
http://f.imagehost.org/0731/astrochicken_ausschwitz_woodendoor.gif

HUH???

A wooden door with a window?????.

LOL. C'mon..?

State-of-the-art (well, they are german after all) fumigation rooms and then a wooden fucking door?

Go see for yourself.

I, personally,have gotten thrown out of Bergen-Belsen (about 50 km's away from whence i type) for laughing at the absurdity of it all.

I urge everyone to keep an open mind on it.. the despicably evil jew-gassing nazi-myth is just as
ridiculous as the "evil-osama-in-a-cave-on-a-dialysis-machine-attacking-america" fable.

Two things that should get everyone pondering the possibility that it might all be lies, IS:

1. If Ausschwitz was an extermination camp, and women and kids got herded directly into gas chambers,
then how the hell did Anne Frank (of diary fame) manage to get a transfer out to Bergen-Belsen??`?????
(it's in the book i was FORCED to read it in school!!)

2. People in power LIE.

The bottom line.. don't believe anything (including me) anyone says.. keep an open mind, take the time,
do the research and then take a wee trip around europe (prague's only about half an hour away from several camps and well worth a visit)

As an aside: i've got long hair, play guitar and love scoffling mushrooms...
and am not, never have been, and never will be a baseball-bat wielding thug.

That's my opinion and now back to dogmilks attempt to get yet another holocaust thread moved to the rant room.

runciter

29-01-2009, 03:24 PM

thanks for your post astro,

i still find it hard to believe that so many people could participate to such a big fraud.

is it possible? :confused:

rydeon

29-01-2009, 04:32 PM

Anythings possible. But as a revisionist when it comes to WWII I think the jews in concentration camps needs looking into.

truthseeker49

29-01-2009, 04:54 PM

astrochicken

29-01-2009, 05:23 PM

I know someoen whose father married her mother because his first family was killed in a concentration camp. He arm was stamped with the famous "serial number". I refuse to believe that it's all made up. How do you explain the nazi films of the rows of people shot to death & then dumped in mass graves ? I was required to watch one of those films in high-school.

There is not a single revisionist who will deny that people died.
Of course, there were on-the-spot executions.. look at Iraq, look at Palestine.

If something horrible happens to a buddy then any unfortunate passersby will get fragged as a result.

Stand on the street during a demonstration. If you're the unlucky type you're going get to hit with a rubber bullet and end up with baton-induced concussion despite just looking outside to see what the commotion was.

As regards the "serial numbers" - waste of ink if you're going to kill someone no? Iif you want to keep track of someone over time.. such as who's turn is it to clean the lavatories, who's shift is it in the mine, when was the last time they got a typhoid jab? Or when they collected their pay (yes--they had money in concentration camps)

This is Lagergeld (eng.=camp money)
http://www.plbg.de/lexikon/ostarbeiter/lagergeld1.jpg

not to be confused with kriegsgefangenlagergeld (eng: prisoner-of-war camp money)
http://www.atsnotes.com/articles/articles-jpg/camp-10m.JPG

After all they were work camps.. do the work, get paid.. stroll along to the camp shop and buy yourself some bread, tobacco, stamps to send letters home.

I'm not saying life was a bowl of cherries in there but i am sick of the lie.

ps. @ webmaster sean.. send me a PM if the authorities start asking for DNS logs.. don't quite fancy 5 years in prison for stating the obvious. ;)

zilky

29-01-2009, 05:42 PM

"I'm not saying life was a bowl of cherries in there but i am sick of the lie."

Please summarize for us what you think the main elements of this 'LIE' are?

hewrote

29-01-2009, 06:34 PM

hewrote

29-01-2009, 06:45 PM

See the main page of rense.com today. Jan. 28/09

and Ernst Zundel is in prison for questioning the questionable?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

ISRAEL WAS FOUNDED ON A BIG FAT LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rhydra

29-01-2009, 07:16 PM

Just out of interest, I was wondering if revisionism, appertaining to the Holocaust, has become more overt since the recent events in Gaza?

dogsmilk

29-01-2009, 07:30 PM

duplicate post.

dogsmilk

29-01-2009, 07:37 PM

Anyone with an interest should do the research themselves.. visit the camps, talk to old people who saw it first hand, peruse the mountains of shoes, find out which books are banned and try and get them, find out who is currently imprisoned for stating whatever.

I'm a scot living in germany.

When i moved here, i was brainwashed like everyone else.

Through research (internet and per pedes and talking to a lot of old people (over here anyone OVER 70 lived the whole hitler era and some as camp guards, railway workers etc. etc.), i've come to the conclusion that the holocaust (with a capital "H".. the official 6 million gassed story") is a complete and utter fabrication.

Mass gassings did not happen.

For those who may not get to mainland europe to verifiy these claims for themselves.

The claim of revisionists is that there was no genocide as they were all primarily work camps.
Delousing chambers are claimed to be actual gas extermination chambers.
Here's a few pics to demonstrate the absurdity.

Here are delousing chambers with a clothes line hanging out front
http://f.imagehost.org/0149/astrochicken_dachau_clothes.jpg

Here is the door to a fumigation room.
For those not well-versed in german it states:
Gaszeit= Gas schedule (the times are partially obstructed by the soldiers head)
skull/crossbones = danger ;)
Vorsicht! = Caution!
Gas = Gas
Lebensgefahr! = Lethal!
Nicht Öffnen = Do not open

http://f.imagehost.org/0914/astrochicken_dachau_fumigationdoor.jpg

This is the same door, after being repainted and bolted open (as it is now)
http://f.imagehost.org/0234/astrochicken_fumigationdoor_revamp.jpg

This is the sign above the delousing chambers stating exactly what they are
ie. Fumigation cubicles
http://f.imagehost.org/0628/astrochicken_fumigationdoor_sign.jpg

Now those doors, sealed as they are, prevent any zyklon-b (used for delousing) from seeping out.

And now we come to the actual despicably evil nazi german gas chambers in Auschwitz (violin-crescendo and enter little girl with red dress from stage left)

http://f.imagehost.org/0429/astrochicken_auschwitz_door.gif
http://f.imagehost.org/0731/astrochicken_ausschwitz_woodendoor.gif

HUH???

A wooden door with a window?????.

LOL. C'mon..?

State-of-the-art (well, they are german after all) fumigation rooms and then a wooden fucking door?

Go see for yourself.

I, personally,have gotten thrown out of Bergen-Belsen (about 50 km's away from whence i type) for laughing at the absurdity of it all.

I urge everyone to keep an open mind on it.. the despicably evil jew-gassing nazi-myth is just as
ridiculous as the "evil-osama-in-a-cave-on-a-dialysis-machine-attacking-america" fable.

Two things that should get everyone pondering the possibility that it might all be lies, IS:

1. If Ausschwitz was an extermination camp, and women and kids got herded directly into gas chambers,
then how the hell did Anne Frank (of diary fame) manage to get a transfer out to Bergen-Belsen??`?????
(it's in the book i was FORCED to read it in school!!)

2. People in power LIE.

The bottom line.. don't believe anything (including me) anyone says.. keep an open mind, take the time,
do the research and then take a wee trip around europe (prague's only about half an hour away from several camps and well worth a visit)

As an aside: i've got long hair, play guitar and love scoffling mushrooms...
and am not, never have been, and never will be a baseball-bat wielding thug.

That's my opinion and now back to dogmilks attempt to get yet another holocaust thread moved to the rant room.

And exactly how many threads have ever ended up in the rant room on my account? Your list please.

Er which door on which Auschwitz gas chamber is this? Is it the ruins at Birkenau? Or Krema 1 which was minor as far as gassings were concerned and which everyone knows was later converted to an air raid shelter then (pretty badly as it happens) reconstructed as a museum piece by the Poles? Isn't having a record of them fitting a gas tight door and shower heads in Krema III rather more interesting? Y'know, next time I visit a castle and I see an incongruous door that doesn't look medieval I'm going to employ your primary school level of reasoning and conclude the middle ages never happened.

Oh and IIRC Anne Frank was in her teens by the time she hit Auschwitz. Quantities of women and young people were most certainly employed as labour (IIRC most of the Kanada workers were women). Indeed, not all children were killed. It depended on who they wanted for what jobs and if they thought you were capable of performing them. That's why they had selections. Basic, basic stuff.

And here's a brain teaser for you - if you've chatted to some anonymous German grandpas who have led you to believe there was no Holocaust (though you thus far omit exactly who they were and what position to witness events they were in), by what methodology do you go on to dismiss the God knows how many folk from SS members to camp inmates (Jewish and non-Jewish) to toothless peasant bystanders who are quite unequivocal about what they saw/did and have continued to stick to this for over sixty years? Please explain by what impartial process you come to this conclusion. In fact, I'd sincerely advise you properly get on the case with this - 'revisionists' have struggled for years to get witnesses and have had to rely on shit ones like Staglich (of course the odd shit 'revisionist' witness nevertheless automatically trumps any number of ones with the wrong opinion - that goes without saying) - indeed, despite offering absolution and minor celebrity (albeit in crackpot circles), they've even had former Nazis who were there tell them quite frankly they're talking out their arse. So 'revisionist' stardom awaits if you can get any of these dudes on the record. Sure, they'll get done in Germany, but they've gotta be seriously old by now and what more could an old chap want but to go to his grave setting the historical record straight? Astrochicken - your destiny awaits.

Unless of course you're -
a/Making stuff up
b/You've chatted to some old geezers who worked on the trains in Berlin or guarded some obscure camp who said "Nah I didn't see anything like that" and decided that trumps anything else. Though I am confident your elucidation of your methodology concerning witness statements will set me straight there.

There is not a single revisionist who will deny that people died.

But some do try to basically deny pretty much anything bad. The gas chambers get most attention from 'revisionists', but some do try to deny mass shootings as well. In fact, if you spend some time browsing CODOH, they deny pretty much anything and everything.

As regards the "serial numbers" - waste of ink if you're going to kill someone no? Iif you want to keep track of someone over time.. such as who's turn is it to clean the lavatories, who's shift is it in the mine, when was the last time they got a typhoid jab? Or when they collected their pay (yes--they had money in concentration camps)

*groan* Auschwitz was primarily a labour camp and plenty of (deemed capable) Jews were selected to work alongside the various other catagories of inmate rather than be gassed. Serial numbers were given to registered inmates, not those selected for gassing on arrival. This is totally basic. Tell me - when you visited these camps, did you pay any attention whatsoever to 'official history' or were you just wandering round pissing yourself til you got kicked out?

Regarding the currency used at Auschwitz, it's something I know very little about, so since you raise it I was wondering if you would tell me who exactly used it - guards/catagories of prisoner - and in exactly what capacity. I am assuming you would not simply infer from its existence that everyone got a pay packet each week and trooped off to Auschwitz mall to by cigs and Mars Bars as that would be rather foolish.

www.codoh.com

consult senior member "Hannover" regarding ANY and ALL questions that you might have.

Thanks!

However, if are not a 'revisionist' and say things Mr Hannover (who is apparently a library assistant called Jonnie Allen Hargis) does not like he will delete your posts, ban you and then claim he has demolished you in debate. All, of course, in the name of the free speech 'revisionists' so cherish. You may find some of this twat's antics discussed here, by both 'revisionists' and those who reside in reality.

http://rodohforum.yuku.com/forums/7/t/The-Memory-Hole.html

Runciter - If I were you I'd sit down and have a big old think about exactly how massive the scale of any 'holohoax' would have to be, particularly if you allow yourself to move away from the "this document is a forgery because I said so and anyway it doesn't mean what it looks like it means so there", "that witness is a liar because I don't like what he said and his testimony wasn't 100% accurate on all detail even though we know genuine eyewitnesses are not infallible by a long stretch and it doesn't matter if was corroborated by other people because they were all in cahoots because I think they were" etc lines of reasoning.

Dunno if I'll post again. Busy times. If not - have fun!

astrochicken

29-01-2009, 08:50 PM

And exactly how many threads have ever ended up in the rant room on my account? Your list please.

Sorry, i'm not taking the bait.

Er which door on which Auschwitz gas chamber is this? Is it the ruins at Birkenau?

Eh no, you're referring to "Krema 2" and that's just a ruin.. great place to visit if you like playing with rubble.
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/auschwitz/images/k2-ruins-01.jpg

This is what it looked like
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/auschwitzscrapbook/KremaIIroof.jpg

Damn those fake windows look real. Sneaky Germans again.

Ah BUT now i remember the gassing took place where the ruins are...

"The roof of the Krema II brick building was taken off and the cremation ovens were lifted out with cranes. The fake shower fixtures on the ceiling of the gas chamber were removed and all traces of them are now gone. Then the wire-mesh columns inside Krema II, into which the poison gas pellets had been poured, were removed and the holes in the roof were closed up and cemented over so skillfully that no trace of them can be seen today."

Sneaky germans eh?

Or Krema 1 which was minor as far as gassings were concerned and which everyone knows was later converted to an air raid shelter then (pretty badly as it happens) reconstructed as a museum piece by the Poles?

Convenient yet again. Damn germans. Turning it into an air raid shelter.
Still they (the musuem) really like to emphasize how this is all original and the "way it's allways been".

Isn't having a record of them fitting a gas tight door and shower heads in Krema III rather more interesting?

Ah yes, THE PROOF.. that single piece of paper, with the handwritten entry stating "gas-tight door" (last entry on the right).

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/19430624-inventory/inventory.jpg

Well fuck me sideways.. it DID happen.. they really did kill 6 million.

Hmm.. i've been here nigh on 20 years and the germans are a strange bunch really. Give them paper and a rubber stamp and that will keep the majority of officials occupied for days. "need paperwork in duplicate?.. nah, here you go, in triplicate" stamp, stamp, stamp.
Nevertheless.. if that single piece of paper with a handwritten word does it for you.. then by all accounts believe the yarn that is being spun.

6 million dead and 1 piece of paper. ROFL

Y'know, next time I visit a castle and I see an incongruous door that doesn't look medieval I'm going to employ your primary school level of reasoning and conclude the middle ages never happened.

Sorry, i'm not taking the bait.

Oh and IIRC Anne Frank was in her teens by the time she hit Auschwitz. Quantities of women and young people were most certainly employed as labour (IIRC most of the Kanada workers were women). Indeed, not all children were killed. It depended on who they wanted for what jobs and if they thought you were capable of performing them. That's why they had selections. Basic, basic stuff.

Don't start on the exceptions crap, she was sent to a Vernichtungslager (eng: extermination camp) .. get it? Kill all jews? Remember that part?

And here's a brain teaser for you - if you've chatted to some anonymous German grandpas who have led you to believe there was no Holocaust (though you thus far omit exactly who they were and what position to witness events they were in) by what methodology do you go on to dismiss the God knows how many folk from SS members to camp inmates (Jewish and non-Jewish) to toothless peasant bystanders who are quite unequivocal about what they saw/did and have continued to stick to this for over sixty years?

So reading transcripts of toothless peasant bystanders on the internet has more validity than looking in someone's eyes and actually talking to them?

That's just sad dogsmilk.. you want to get out more.

I'd sincerely advise you properly get on the case with this - 'revisionists' have struggled for years to get witnesses...

You're right, it's wierd that they can't find witnesses. It's not as if it's a crime
to deny the holocaust and you might get imprisoned for stating anything other than the official line.

Oops i forgot, it is a crime and you do get sent to prison.

*groan* Auschwitz was primarily a labour camp and plenty of (deemed capable) Jews were selected to work alongside the various other catagories of inmate rather than be gassed. Serial numbers were given to registered inmates, not those selected for gassing on arrival. This is totally basic. Tell me - when you visited these camps, did you pay any attention whatsoever to 'official history' or were you just wandering round pissing yourself til you got kicked out?

I was probably on mushrooms. ;)

Regarding the currency used at Auschwitz, it's something I know very little about....
I am assuming you would not simply infer from its existence that everyone got a pay packet each week and trooped off to Auschwitz mall to by cigs and Mars Bars as that would be rather foolish.

THAT is precisely what i am inferring.

Dunno if I'll post again. Busy times. If not - have fun!

Oh, i will. It's my destiny. :p

*- "sorry,i'm not taking the bait" = let's keep this impersonal

truthseeker49

30-01-2009, 01:12 AM

Astrochicken, I am the last person to start anything. However, I cannot imagine why anyone would want to make up a story like that. The Jews have been persecuted throughout history. They really didn't need the "publicity" of the Holocaust atrocities in order for people to know that they had gotten a raw deal. MANY people were murdered during WWII. Jew & gentile alike. Why are you singling out the Jews ? ( BTW, I'm not Jewish, I'm pagan )
Also, I'm half German. My grandmother brought me to Germany twice when I was an early teen. I couldn't speak the language and I guess that was a good thing. We stayed with friends of hers who were nice enough. However, all I could think of whenever I sat down with them was how much I wanted to ask them how they could sit by & allow the Holocaust to happen. :(

astrochicken

30-01-2009, 02:59 AM

However, all I could think of whenever I sat down with them was how much I wanted to ask them how they could sit by & allow the Holocaust to happen. :(

That is precisely what i did.

Back in the days of flocks.. i was right in to the whole left-wing, squatting houses, brewing molotovs and denouncing nazis,old and young, ripping down election posters of rightwing parties. Then it dawned on me that the *other* flock was doing precisely the same thing. So your mind opens up and all of a sudden you find yourself talking to your *old nazi* neighbours whom you otherwise avoided, then you realize they're also normal people with views outside the accepted norms of society and you start to listen.

Then you start hearing truths about that period in history from people that lived through it (like your grandmother's friends).. not some author in a far-away country giving his version of events about a country he's never lived in where they speak a language that he's never spoken but that he's heard about because a friend of the family knew someone who's sister emigrated after the war and told a good story one sunday.

It all boils down to perspective.

Why does this get shoved down your throat day in and day out?

Blair/Brown sugges kids should be sent to concentration camps for curriculum brainwashing?
History as a subject in school... a joke, a wee bit of Louis the XIV and then jewish suffering and the holocaust.
UN-designated Holocaust-rememberance days?
Symbols (positive) banned that have been around for thousands of years.
People stuck in prison for questioning the "official" story?

Switch on your tv right now.. and there will be a 2 "germans-are-evil" war movies and/or some holocaust-rememberance film/documentary on.

Now compare it to recent events like say palestine,iraq,afhanistan and ask yourself how many 2-minute (at best) news reports you've seen on that recently.

asides from that, Paul is dead. ;)

dogsmilk

30-01-2009, 11:24 AM

Sorry, i'm not taking the bait.

Ah don't tell me - your fantasies about me wanting Holocaust threads in the rant room for some bizarre reason are not borne out by reality. Never mind.

Eh no, you're referring to "Krema 2"

Why just Krema II?

Damn those fake windows look real. Sneaky Germans again.

Ah BUT now i remember the gassing took place where the ruins are...

"The roof of the Krema II brick building was taken off and the cremation ovens were lifted out with cranes. The fake shower fixtures on the ceiling of the gas chamber were removed and all traces of them are now gone. Then the wire-mesh columns inside Krema II, into which the poison gas pellets had been poured, were removed and the holes in the roof were closed up and cemented over so skillfully that no trace of them can be seen today."

Sneaky germans eh?

I think you're forgetting the bit where they blew them up.
It takes genius of extraordinary proportions to think to destroy your killing apparatus just before you lose the war doesn't it? One wonders why you'd go to the trouble of trashing a perfectly innocent air raid carburation delousing chamber or whatever the Kremas are this week before legging it from the coming Soviet onslaught, but there you go.
Didn't they find the holes? Wasn't that something deniers were getting hot under the collar about ten years ago? Can't quite remember.

Damn those fake windows look real. Sneaky Germans again.

???????????

Now what are you on about?

Convenient yet again. Damn germans. Turning it into an air raid shelter.
Still they (the musuem) really like to emphasize how this is all original and the "way it's allways been".

Very convenient if you're worried about air raids considering it's slap bang in the main camp, you've stopped using it to gas people and have erected structures with a massive capacity to incinerate corpses elsewhere. Interesting to see the museum staff have apparently changed tack since David Cole got excited about a guide saying it was in its "original state" which is actually pretty accurate. Don't tell me – they've now got museum tour guides actively shilling for the holohoax.
Please bear in mind if you visit Auschwitz today you are visiting a museum – you would expect a visit to Canarvon castle to be informative, but you wouldn't expect it to give you a thorough understanding of Medieval history.

Well fuck me sideways.. it DID happen.. they really did kill 6 million.

Hmm.. i've been here nigh on 20 years and the germans are a strange bunch really. Give them paper and a rubber stamp and that will keep the majority if officials occupied for days. "need paperwork in duplicate?.. nah, here you go, in triplicate" stamp, stamp, stamp.
Nevertheless.. if that single piece of paper with a handwritten word does it for you.. then by all accounts believe the yarn that is being spun.

6 million dead and 1 piece of paper. ROFL

Nobody is suggesting the Holocaust rests on that one document are they? Stop being silly.

What is fascinating is you are prepared to go on about some door sixty years later whose provenance you do not explain and I'll wager do not know as some kind of damning evidence, yet faced with a rather telling contemporary document you sneer it's trivia and suddenly decide it's make or break for the entire Holocaust. This is a standard denier approach.

What all this 'in triplicate' stuff means I have no idea. One would assume you are (baselessly) implying it's fake or manipulated which would fit nicely with the "this document is a fake but it's also irrelevant" approach which is also standard.

Furthermore, you also appear to endorse the denier fallacy of trying to take everything in isolation. That document has to be seen in the context of everything else. So for example, if you have numerous independent individuals reporting gassings in a room disguised with showers and years later a document emerges showing a gas tight door and shower heads were installed in the exact place they say it happened, then this is a piece of evidence that corroborates their claim. Deniers lack a coherent narrative and instead rely on breaking everything down into individual pieces they attack.
Pretty soon you have to buy into the most comprehensive epidemic of mass lying and document forging in history – with zero evidence of how this happened. Alternatively, you go for ascribing alternative 'interpretations' of individual pieces of evidence while simply not bothering to see how well they cross-reference with everything else.

You cannot prove the Holocaust to deniers in the same way you could not prove the existence of the Byzantine Empire if you employed their twisted epistemology. If film of a gassing in Krema II emerged from some forgotten archive it would instantly be claimed -
a/It is a modern fake and no test showing the film is from the 1940s can be accepted unless the film is tested in person by Germar Rudolf live on prime time television as otherwise whoever doing the testing is a biased shill.
b/It was filmed by the British in Pinewood studios for an abandoned propaganda film
c/How very convenient they've found a film – very suspicious.

You just think of a reason why it has to be something, anything other than what it looks like and run with that. It's basically an series of exercises in creative thinking.

I mean, no matter how many mass graves we know there are, deniers still pretend there aren't any because they are not happy with any of the reports. They refuse to accept Kola's test digs at Belzec, yet are happy touting Krege's totally bogus GPR 'study'. Indeed, when Patrick Debois recently exhumed a grave in his investigation of shooting sites, they were falling all over each other to provide reasons why this represented anything other than Jews shot by the Nazis while demanding to know why he had not exhumed every single grave he located and waved the corpses in their faces (if he had done so, they would nevertheless still be anything other than graves of Jews shot by the Nazis). If you think of applying their demands to any other area of historical research it is just obvious how ludicrous their approach is.

Furthermore, I think arenas like this one it feed into what I would term 'faux radicalism' – I am not dissing what are termed 'conspiracy theories' par se – indeed, I am very sympathetic to some positions so termed – or saying everyone does this. But it strikes me there is this thing whereby people deem themselves 'awake' or some bullshit and instantly decide by automatically deciding anything they consider 'official' is therefore inherently wrong and subject to whatever argument from incredulity they can muster they are on the fast track to understanding the world. Which is very lazy thinking. They berate the 'sheeple' while excitedly believing virtually anything deemed 'alternative'. Hence, people believe they are way radical and privy to the top secret workings of the world by reading and simply believing websites trumpeting What they don't want you to know!!!!!! Jews faked the Holocaust!!!!!!! Suppressed info!!!!!!! while sitting at home and browsing the net. Or in your case also allegedly speaking to some mystery Germans. What's truly incredible is how no matter how many times their 'sources' are demonstrated to be liars, they keep the faith.

Sorry, i'm not taking the bait.

What bait? I was illustrating your reasoning is flawed.

Don't start on the exceptions crap, she was sent to a Vernichtungslager (eng: extermination camp) .. get it? Kill all jews? Remember that part?

What part of "Auschwitz was primarily a labour camp" do you not understand? Auschwitz was not simply an extermination camp – it had an extermination function for part of its existence – haven't we just been through that?!
And it wasn't as simple as just "kill all Jews", not when you can use them as cheap, expendable labour. Goebbels set it out succinctly in his famous diary entry didn't he?
Look, the evolution of the Holocaust and the various strands of Nazi ideology that accompanied it is actually quite complicated and simply cannot be reduced to they wanted to kill all Jews/they didn't want to kill all Jews. I tend to think – albeit from very limited knowledge – that it was not inevitable they moved to mass killing; I tend to think it evolved due to a number of factors. That's what I find particularly horrific – the notion that it just became a somewhat pragmatic solution to their imagined 'Jewish problem'.

So reading transcripts of toothless peasant bystanders on the internet has more validity than looking in someone's eyes and actually talking to them?

That's just sad dogsmilk.. you want to get out more.

Well recorded transcripts from numerous, diverse, independent, named individuals studied and cross-referenced by historians does, I afraid, carry more weight with me than some anonymous guy on the net making vague claims about unspecified people he reckons he's met. Sorry.

Though perhaps we should add an epilogue to all the history books - However, in 2009 a man on an internet forum calling himself astrochicken said he'd met some elderly Germans who said there was no Holocaust so everyone decided it hadn't happened after all. The end.

Like I said - put your money where your mouth is and bring this rich vein of counter testimony that has eluded the rest of the world for sixty years into the light. As it is, you haven't even bothered to say what specific positions these guys were in and what makes them credible.

You're right, it's wierd that they can't find witnesses. It's not as if it's a crime
to deny the holocaust and you might get imprisoned for stating anything other than the official line.

Oops i forgot, it is a crime and you do get sent to prison.

In some countries.
Many people who were forced to confess to things they hadn't done in Stalin's show trials retracted as soon as they got the chance, despite facing death. Gitmo inmates who were forced to sign confessions have screamed their innocence despite still being imprisoned and at the mercy of torture by their captors (whereas Nazis on trial generally claimed it was someone else's fault and they were just following orders) Are you seriously suggesting hordes of credible eyewitnesses who could overturn this holohoax of yours kept schtum for sixty years because of facing a term in a German prison? And why were they so quiet before the legislation was introduced?
Blimey, people go to prison for all kinds of stances ranging from animal rights to batty old Sylvia Stolz – if none of these guys have the guts to come forward in their twilight years, well I'm not surprised they lost the war! Dear me, Germar Rudolf and Ernst Zundel must be seriously wondering if it's all worth it! They heroically stand up for these guys who won't even return the favour by presenting the damning evidence that could close the case!
Shame really – you might find someone who actually saw the Kremas being used for one of the myriad of functions 'revisionists' have ascribed to them over the years. Still, 'revisionists' have never seemed to need eyewitnesses, so maybe you needn't bother after all.

I have long argued that laws against denial are an absolute godsend to deniers because they provide such a catch-all excuse to play the martyr/awful suppression that-means-there-must-be-something-in-it-in-defiance-of-all-logic card. I really wish they would repeal them. I can sympathise with you over there, but what bugs me is when people over here bleat about being 'suppressed' while busy downloading virtually all the 'revisionist' materials ever produced from the comfort of their own home for free. Fucking hell, you can buy quite a selection from Amazon for Christ's sake.

*groan* Auschwitz was primarily a labour camp

I was probably on mushrooms.

Followed by

Don't start on the exceptions crap, she was sent to a Vernichtungslager (eng: extermination camp)

So it appears you still are.

THAT is precisely what i am inferring.

I see. So here you choose to totally ignore the vast the literature on Nazi deployment of slave labour and instead decide that because you are aware of a camp currency system this means that everyone got paid and went shopping in Asda after work on Friday. Seriously, no offence as I am sure you find me very frustrating from your POV, but this kind of haphazard cavalier approach to history I really do find very frustrating. I really do think you've basically made up your mind and don't give a flying fuck what anyone says.

As it is, the Nazis issued currency in various camps and ghettos and there are a number of reasons you can find presented for this, e.g.
http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=gvKVLcMVIuG&b=395013
(I posted that page because I know you're a fan)

But in the particular case of Auschwitz, you could do worse than consulting the section beginning on p.330 of Franciszek Piper's Auschwitz prisoner labour where he talks about its utilisation (regulations coming into force on May 15th 1943) as an incentive scheme as part of a broader discussion about how the Nazis tried to squeeze as much productivity as they could from their minions. Strategies veered over time between the carrot and the stick. Apparently, this cash thing pissed off some of the companies using the labour as they felt it cost them money.

So your mind opens up and all of a sudden you find yourself talking to your *old nazi* neighbours whom you otherwise avoided, then you realize they're also normal people with views outside the accepted norms of society and you start to listen.

Then you start hearing truths about that period in history from people that lived through it (like your grandmother's friends).. not some author in a far-away country giving his version of events about a country he's never lived in where they speak a language that he's never spoken but that he's heard about because a friend of the family knew someone who's sister emigrated after the war and told a good story one sunday.

No, you hear their opinion coloured by their ideology. If you sat down and listened to an ex NF member tell tales of fighting various folk of darker skin pigmentation than theirs in the 1970s, you would not be hearing 'the truth' of that era, you would be hearing how they viewed it from their perspective. That's why not all claims made by Jewish survivors are believed – it depends on how well what they say fits with everything else.
The job of the historian is to look at as many sources as possible within their given context, not be bedazzled by the shocking revelation that Nazis were human beings too and thus assume their war stories are gospel.
By the way, I think you would struggle to find any professional historian of the Third Reich who is not fluent in German and you are of course aware that there is a substantial body of Holocaust history written by German historians, plenty of which is not even available in English. And -

he's heard about because a friend of the family knew someone who's sister emigrated after the war and told a good story one sunday.

can you give a single example of any historical work that bases its claims on such as this?

Why does this get shoved down your throat day in and day out?

I hear what you're saying. If that's doing your head in, you should probably stop reading forums like this one. I rarely ever thought about the Holocaust until I had denial constantly rammed down my throat on conspiracy forums.

Switch on your tv right now.. and there will be a 2 "germans-are-evil" war movies and/or some holocaust-rememberance film/documentary on.

Are you seriously suggesting that contemporary British society views Germans as evil? Stop conflating Nazis with Germans in general. The Germans are a fine bunch (they are responsible for some kick-ass music for a start) and you do them a disservice by trying to make out we think they're all Nazis. Or are you also going to moan that people giving negative views of the Soviet Union are saying all Russians are evil. Though in fact, most of the classic war films don't show Germans as “evil” but rather more as generic one-dimensional 'baddies' which fits the generic narrative formula cinema frequently opts for generally, though sometimes quite sympathetically portrayed as in the eagle has landed which was on again over Christmas. I caught a bit of the battle of the bulge too over chrimbo and I, er, don't recall the Germans in it as being “evil”.And like das boot was not a very highly regarded piece in the English speaking world.
Even Holocaust films aren't that clear cut – I read a really good critique of how schindlers list opts to invoke the paternal noble (German) hero figure that leads the way to salvation, turning what was a fucking ugly situation into a Hollywood tale of deliverance. As a true story that was initially suppressed in Poland because of the centrality of the humane German, the multi oscar winning the pianist also has a German saving the day, while also portraying how some better off Jews treated their fellow Jews like shit in the Warsaw ghetto.
But in the final equation, cinema is story telling for profit and is mostly concerned with narratives it thinks will please the audience.

Funny really considering I have never seen you take issue with all the “Jews are evil” material posted on this forum.

Now compare it to recent events like say palestine,iraq,afhanistan and ask yourself how many 2-minute (at best) news reports you've seen on that recently.

Oh absolutely. Gaza has been totally absent from my TV screen for months and instead its been wall-to-wall Holocaust stories during every single news broadcast.

Look, I am seriously no big expert on either the Holocaust or the Third Reich – I am a hobby reader. But if you are going to keep going on about how you want to find 'the truth', you are simply barking up the wrong tree trying to break everything down into factoids you draw sweeping conclusions from, particularly when you apply totally inconsistent standards like with your door thing. I am not being arrogant because I will hold my hands up and say I have barely scratched the surface of the immense body of work on this subject and I am sure there are many things I could bring up were I more knowledgeable, but it is clear to me you do not know very much about it yourself yet are nevertheless apparently fully confident in saying it did not occur.

If you reply to this post, do not expect a response from me until next week. I'm falling into the 'posting on the net is more interesting than doing the work I should be doing' trap :)

The Jews have been persecuted throughout history. They really didn't need the "publicity" of the Holocaust atrocities in order for people to know that they had gotten a raw deal. MANY people were murdered during WWII. Jew & gentile alike. Why are you singling out the Jews ?

Because they frequently come from people who think the Jews deserve everything they get because they control the world or some shit and they are more obsessed with Jews than they accuse the Jews of being with themselves.

Also, I'm half German. My grandmother brought me to Germany twice when I was an early teen. I couldn't speak the language and I guess that was a good thing. We stayed with friends of hers who were nice enough. However, all I could think of whenever I sat down with them was how much I wanted to ask them how they could sit by & allow the Holocaust to happen.

What makes you think they were in a position to know what was going down in Poland? And when Jews were being persecuted and later shipped off, it's easy to say Germans should have done more, but we know very well how 'terror suspects' are treated or how Iraqis have suffered and we let it happen. Some Germans did hide Jews and took great risks, but it was very difficult for your average German to do anything, particularly when they were being bombarded with propaganda telling them how evil the Jews were.

runciter

30-01-2009, 11:37 AM

Because they frequently come from people who think the Jews deserve everything they get because they control the world or some shit and they are more obsessed with Jews than they accuse the Jews of being with themselves.

ordinary jews have always been scapegoated for the depravity of their corrupt elite.

now it's time to look at the root of the problem, and cut the head of the red dragon.

dogsmilk

30-01-2009, 12:05 PM

ordinary jews have always been scapegoated for the depravity of their corrupt elite.

now it's time to look at the root of the problem, and cut the head of the red dragon.

Could you possibly explain which particular "corrupt elite" was being targeted when members of the first crusade engaged in a stop-off Jew killin' spree en route to the Holy Land? Was it the same elite that led to other Jews being burned alive when the synagogue they sought refuge in was torched when Jerusalem was taken? Why were they also butchering Muslims? Was that because of this "corrupt elite" too?

runciter

30-01-2009, 12:16 PM

Could you possibly explain which particular "corrupt elite" was being targeted when members of the first crusade engaged in a stop-off Jew killin' spree en route to the Holy Land? Was it the same elite that led to other Jews being burned alive when the synagogue they sought refuge in was torched when Jerusalem was taken? Why were they also butchering Muslims? Was that because of this "corrupt elite" too?

were you reffering to wartime massacres? being killed in war is a jewish prerogative?

runciter

30-01-2009, 12:20 PM

i can tell you what elite was (not) targeted before and during ww2: the rothschild family.

dogsmilk

30-01-2009, 12:23 PM

were you reffering to wartime massacres? being killed in war is a jewish prerogative?

No, I asked you to explain how your "corrupt elite" due to whom "Jews have always been scapegoated" caused this to happen.

It really is that simple.

dogsmilk

30-01-2009, 12:24 PM

i can tell you what elite was (not) targeted before and during ww2: the rothschild family.

Except, of course, for the Nazis seizing their assets.

runciter

30-01-2009, 12:27 PM

No, I asked you to explain how your "corrupt elite" due to whom "Jews have always been scapegoated" caused this to happen.

It really is that simple.

why are you asking me about wartime massacres if you weren't talking about wartime massacres?

runciter

30-01-2009, 12:33 PM

Except, of course, for the Nazis seizing their assets.

poor little rothschilds, what an horrible fate!

according to hilberg, britain declared war on germany exactly in the same days when the nazis were attempting to seize some rothschild property without paying anything for it (or maybe giving too little in exchange, i don't remember well).

dogsmilk

30-01-2009, 01:13 PM

why are you asking me about wartime massacres if you weren't talking about wartime massacres?

Why are you going on about "corrupt elites" causing Jews to be scapegoated if you can't explain who they were or how they made this happen in a named instance?

dogsmilk

30-01-2009, 01:24 PM

poor little rothschilds, what an horrible fate!

according to hilberg, britain declared war on germany exactly in the same days when the nazis were attempting to seize some rothschild property without paying anything for it (or maybe giving too little in exchange, i don't remember well).

Not really - the Nazis were gunning for all Jewish businesses and the Rothchilds were in a much stronger position than all the little guys who got royally fucked over.

According to Hilberg, the wranglings started months before Britain declared war and carried on well after. But I'm sure the invasion of Poland had nothing to do with anything.

truthseeker49

30-01-2009, 01:30 PM

Dogsmilk, I really like your avatar. Donald Sutherland rules! :)

What makes you think they were in a position to know what was going down in Poland? And when Jews were being persecuted and later shipped off, it's easy to say Germans should have done more, but we know very well how 'terror suspects' are treated or how Iraqis have suffered and we let it happen. Some Germans did hide Jews and took great risks, but it was very difficult for your average German to do anything, particularly when they were being bombarded with propaganda telling them how evil the Jews were.
__________________

That is very true. I realized that afterwards as I got older. I was very young & didn't fully understand the situation. The scary thing to me is how easy it would be for it all to happen again. Like you said, look what's going on in Iraq & now Gaza.
By denying history's atrocities, we leave the door wide open for them to happen again. History has the annoying habit of repeating itself. :(

runciter

30-01-2009, 01:37 PM

Why are you going on about "corrupt elites" causing Jews to be scapegoated if you can't explain who they were or how they made this happen in a named instance?

were you referring to wartime massacres? or to peacetime pogroms and the like?

runciter

30-01-2009, 01:41 PM

Not really - the Nazis were gunning for all Jewish businesses and the Rothchilds were in a much stronger position than all the little guys who got royally fucked over.

According to Hilberg, the wranglings started months before Britain declared war and carried on well after. But I'm sure the invasion of Poland had nothing to do with anything.

you can verify my statement opening hilberg's book.

a clue about rothschild's influence on british politics:

http://www.mucjs.org/EXHIBITION/BalfourDeclaration2.gif

diamondgeezer

31-01-2009, 05:35 AM

The scary thing to me is how easy it would be for it all to happen again. Like you said, look what's going on in Iraq & now Gaza.
By denying history's atrocities, we leave the door wide open for them to happen again. History has the annoying habit of repeating itself. :(

Exactly! Well put.

We need to remember, and LEARN, not blame and hate. Otherwise it just goes on and on, like it is doing.

runciter

31-01-2009, 08:20 AM

open your eyes

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/image021.jpg

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html

poohkits

01-02-2009, 12:10 PM

3658

astrochicken

01-02-2009, 02:20 PM

The bodies are incinerated at a temperature of 760° to 1150°C (1400° to 2100°F). During the cremation process, a large part of the body (especially the organs) and other soft tissue are vaporized and oxidized due to the heat, and the gases are discharged through the exhaust system.

The entire process usually takes about two hours.

Those are the figures for a 2009 crematorial oven.

Sit down with a calculator and relish the absurdity of the holocaust claim.

You won't find anyone frequenting these forums who still believes that "osama bin laden attacked the WTC", but whoaaahahh don't question the holocaust.

Why would THEY (the powers that be) for the FIRST TIME in history, EVER, actually decide to tell us, the plebs/peons the truth ??

dogsmilk

01-02-2009, 03:44 PM

3658

Further evidence David Dees is totally clueless. Cheers.

Since this seems to be such a fetish for some, here's one from me.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll225/Dogsmilk23/deniersex3.jpg

astrochicken

01-02-2009, 03:56 PM

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3658
Further evidence David Dees is totally clueless. Cheers.

Since this seems to be such a fetish for some, here's one from me.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll225/Dogsmilk23/deniersex3.jpg

David Dees is, at least, consistently thought-provoking and sometimes downright hilarious.

Nevertheless, that's a brave first step for you, so kudos on the feeble attempt to debunk and inject humour into the hollowco$t.

dogsmilk

01-02-2009, 04:02 PM

Those are the figures for a 2009 crematorial oven.

Sit down with a calculator and relish the absurdity of the holocaust claim.

You won't find anyone frequenting these forums who still believes that "osama bin laden attacked the WTC", but whoaaahahh don't question the holocaust.

Why would THEY (the powers that be) for the FIRST TIME in history, EVER, actually decide to tell us, the plebs/peons the truth ??

What, so now in your desperation to cling to any old crap you can think of you're looking at one-at-a-time, ashes-to-the-relatives, coffin included modern cremations.

Shame the Nazis for some reason chose to destroy all the records of the cremation tests for their expensive state-of-the-art crematoria. Why do you reckon that was? Frightened of the Soviets winning the crematorium race?

And why exactly do you reckon they had quite so many ovens (and let's remember yet another was planned but never built) when their capacity far outstripped 'natural' mortality?

Cremation Capacity

The use of cremation ovens appears to have begun sometime in the 1870s. It is known from cremations carried out in 1874 that a 47-pound child could be cremated in 25 minutes, a 144-pound woman in 50 minutes and a 227-pound man in 55 minutes. [104] In 1875 it was reported that a body could be cremated in 50 minutes. [105]

Mattogno cited a participant from a British cremation conference in 1975 who stated that the "thermal barrier" for a cremation was 60 minutes. [106] He ignored the comments of another conference particpant who suggested that most of the burning occurred in the first 30 minutes:

After about half an hour, whether the furnace has gotten up to a temperature of 1100°C or whether it is 900°C, there is a rapid fall away, and I think the investigations should be concerned with the last twenty minutes or so of the cremation cycle. At that time you have in the cremator a very small quantity of body material...roughly the size of a rugby football, about twenty minutes from the end of the cremation, and this is the thing which is most difficult to remove. [107]

The instructions for the Topf double muffle furnaces envisaged that a body would be added into the oven during the last twenty minutes that it took to fully cremate the corpse that had been previously inserted.

As soon as the remains of the corpses have fallen from the chamotte grid to the ash collection channel below, they should be pulled forward towards the ash removal door, using the scraper. Here they can be left for a further twenty minutes to be fully consumed....In the meantime, further corpses can be introduced one after the other into the chambers. [108] (Emphasis added.)

As will be seen later, there is now strong evidence that bodies were added before the prior corpse was fully incinerated, resulting in a 25 minute burning cycle for each body. (See the discussion at footnote 136.)

In Germany of the 1880s it was possible to cremate a body and the coffin which housed it in 60 to 75 minutes. [109] The cremation process became very popular in Germany in the years preceding World War II. In 1926, Berlin newspapers reported that one fifth of all those who died in that city were cremated. [110] By 1931 Germany led Europe in cremations. Of the 94,978 cremations in Europe that year, 59,119 were in Germany. Germany had 107 of the 226 crematoria in Europe. Membership in German cremation societies exceeded those in other countries. Germany also had more cremation journals than any other country. Of the seven named cremation journals at a British cremation conference in 1932, four were German. [111] By the 1930s there were two principal oven builders in Germany. One of these was Topf and Sons, identified earlier as the builder of the Auschwitz ovens.

One of the problems when discussing cremation issues at Auschwitz is that using ovens to dispose of bodies at the rate taking place there is without precedent in human history. To put this in some type of perspective, in the state of California with 20 million people in 1982 there were 58,000 cremations. [112] Yet in Auschwitz, which never had more than 92,000 registered prisoners, many times this number were cremated over a four year period.

The traditional means of body disposal in times of war has been through open air burnings. Thus in Leningrad, now St. Petersburg, during World War II at least one million people were known to have died. They were burned in the open. [113] As will be seen later on in this study, open air burnings were also utilized extensively at Auschwitz.

The specific problem with Auschwitz is that because of the unique nature of what was happening there and the absence to date of any records documenting even one cremation or how these ovens worked, we are necessarily forced into a certain amount of speculation. We don't really know how many bodies could be burned in the crematoria on a daily basis, how much fuel was needed to burn a body, the life span of an oven, or the effect on any of these considerations when more than one body was being burned in an oven. Moreover, the nature of what happened makes it scientifically impossible to duplicate. For example, it is unlikely that there will ever be another opportunity for 52 ovens, all in the same location, to dispose of bodies under the same conditions that existed in Auschwitz. Also, modern cremations are subject to a whole host of rules and regulations not applicable to German concentration camps. In modern cremations the ashes of those cremated cannot be comingled with the ashes of other decedents. German concentration camps were under no such compulsion.

Mattogno computed what he claimed was the maximum number of bodies that could possibly be cremated in the four Birkenau crematoria from the time each became operational until October 30, 1944, the date that camp historian Danuta Czech identifies as the last gassing. He had found documents showing the days repairs were done to the ovens. From these repair documents, he claimed that he was able to establish how many days each of the crematoria could function. He claimed that Krema II went into operation in mid-March 1943 and went out of service shortly thereafter for 115 days until July. It then functioned until October 30, 1944. He also claimed that Krema III went into operation on June 25, 1943 and was out of service for 60 days in 1944. [114] He was correct as to the dates that these crematoria went into service. However, the sources he cited do not support his contentions about the crematoria being out of service for the period claimed. His source for Krema II being down for 115 days was a letter to Topf from the Bauleitung, dated July 17, 1943, which discusses problems with the blueprints for the chimney because they had not taken into account temperatures caused by an expansion of the heat. However, the letter says nothing about the Krema being out of service. [115] The most current research on this issue states that Krema II went out of service for one month beginning on May 22, 1943 because internal lining of the smokestack and the flues connected to the incinerator began to collapse. [116]

Similarly, Mattogno's source for Krema III being down for 60 days in 1944 only mentions that doors on the ovens were being repaired on June 1. It also mentions that there were continuing repairs in all of the crematoria from June 8 to July 20, though it is not stated whether these repairs were on the ovens. [117] However, these documents present no evidence that any of the crematoria were shut down or that the ovens for Crematoria II, III and V were not working during this period of time (Recall that Krema IV's ovens went down permanently in May 1943.) It is known from information on Gusen that Topf ovens could function even on days when there were repairs. [118]

Based on his erroneous estimate on down time of the ovens in Crematoria II and III, Mattogno calculated that if each oven could burn 24 bodies per day, then a maximum of 368,000 bodies could have been burned from the period these ovens first started operation until October 31, 1944. [119] Mattogno did not address the issue of Krema I, in the main camp, which was shut down on July 19, 1943. [120] As will be seen, however, in the part of this study dealing with open air cremations, Mattogno also identified a body disposal method not dependent on the functioning of the ovens. This means that even if his numbers on Krema capacity are correct, they are irrelevant.

The issue of oven overuse surfaced in the recently discovered post war interrogations of three Topf engineers by the Soviets. Kurt Prüfer, builder of the ovens, was asked why the brick linings of the ovens were damaged so quickly. He replied that the damage resulting after six months was "because the strain on the furnaces was enormous." He recounted how he had told Topf's chief engineer in charge of crematoria, Fritz Sanders, about the strain on the furnaces because of so many corpses waiting to be incinerated as a result of the gassings. [121] Sanders stated that he had been told by Prüfer and another Topf engineer that the "capacity of the furnaces was so great because three [gassed] corpses were incinerated [in one oven] simultaneously." [122] A Sonderkommando, one who worked in the crematoria during this period of time, wrote that cracks in the brickwork of the ovens were filled with a special fireclay paste in order to keep the ovens running. [123]

At the hate speech trial of Canadian Ernst Zundel [124] in 1988, a supposed expert on cremations named Ivan Legace testified that the maximum number of bodies which could be disposed of daily in each of the 46 Birkenau ovens was three per oven for a total of 138. [125] This figure found its way into the Leuchter Report. [126] This is one more example of Leuchter's incompetence in these matters. Even Mattogno stated that "[t]his figure is actually far below the actual capacity." [127]

Contrary to Legace and Leuchter, it is known that the Topf ovens could work on a continuous daily basis. This information comes directly from notes kept by prisoners who worked at the crematorium on the daily operation of the Topf double muffle furnace in Gusen from October 31 to November 12, 1941. The notes show that an average daily incineration of 26 per muffle over a 13 day period. [128] However, the Gusen ovens did not always work around the clock. Therefore, the records show that on most days they only operated part time. [129] Topf's instructions for these muffles from July 1941 state:

In the coke-heated T double muffle incinerator, 10 to 35 bodies can be incinerated in about 10 hours. The quantity mentioned above can be incinerated daily without any problem, without overworking the oven. It is not harmful to operate the incinerator day and night if, required, since the fireclay [resistant walls] lasts longer when an even temperature is maintained. [130]

These comments also apply to the three double muffle furnaces in Krema I of Auschwitz which were of the same construction. Similar instructions were issued by Topf for the Auschwitz ovens in September 1941. These instructions state that "[o]nce the cremation chamber [muffle] has been brought to a good red heat [approximately 800°] the corpses can be introduced one after the other in the cremation chambers." The instructions also state that at the end of the operation the air valves and doors and dampers must be closed "so that the furnace does not cool." [131] These instructions directly contradict Legace's assertion that the ovens needed to be cooled. [132]

It is interesting to note that the instructions for both the Gusen and Auschwitz ovens suggest that continued use at an even temperature will actually prolong the useful life of the ovens. On the same day that the Gusen instructions were issued, two Topf engineers stated that the Topf double muffle furnace could incinerate 60 to 72 bodies [30 to 36 per muffle] in a 20 hour period with three hours of maintenance required. [133]

Kurt Prüfer, the Topf engineer who built the 46 Birkenau ovens, stated in a letter on November 15, 1942 that the ovens he installed in the Buchenwald concentration camp had a one third greater output than had previously been thought. [134] Unfortunately, he does not say what number the one third is greater than. However, on the same day he informed the Bauleitung that five triple-muffle furnaces, 15 ovens, could incinerate 800 corpses in 24 hours. [135] This means that a muffle could burn about 53 bodies in a 24 hour period. Reducing the time by four hours means that 44 bodies per muffle could be burned in a 20 hour period

As has been mentioned twice before in this study, the best information we have on the output of these ovens is the period from October 31 to November 12, 1941 in Gusen, after they had been overhauled. While the 677 bodies burned during these 13 days average 26 per muffle, an analysis of the underlying data reveals that a Topf oven could burn far in excess of this amount. On November 7, 1941 these two muffles incinerated 94 bodies in a period of 19 hours and 45 minutes, or 47 per muffle. This means that each oven could incinerate a body in 25.2 minutes. This was probably achieved by adding a new body to the oven before the prior body had been totally incinerated, a method which appears to have been envisaged by the Topf instructions discussed earlier. (See the discussion at footnote 108.) This method should not be confused with multiple body burnings to be discussed in the next part of this study. This 25 minute figure is not far from the Prüfer estimate cited in the prior paragraph. Mattogno totally ignored this information. Rather, he focused on the November 8 information which shows 72 bodies burned. He erroneously claimed that it took 24 1/2 hours to burn these bodies. He had misread the time sheets. The actual burning time for these bodies was between 16 and 17 hours. [136]

The most controversial information comes from the Bauleitung on June 28, 1943. It reported that in a 24 hour period the six ovens of Krema I could incinerate 340 bodies; the five triple muffle furnaces each in Kremas II and III could incinerate 1440 corpses, or 2880 combined; Kremas IV and V could each incinerate 768 corpses or 1536 combined. The total for all five was 4756 and the total for the four Birkenau crematoria Kremas II through V - was 4416. For purposes of comparison with Gusen, there were many lighter-weight women and children incinerated in the Auschwitz ovens. By contrast, there were no women and children in Gusen in 1941, only men. [137]

Deniers reject the Bauleitung figures outright. Denier critics have not totally accepted these numbers. However, the Gusen data suggests that the Bauleitung figures may have been more credible than previously suspected. The Bauleitung's 340 figure for 24 hours for the six ovens of Krema I comes out to about 25 minutes per body burned, the same result achieved at Gusen on November 7, 1941.

What about the four Birkenau crematoria? At the time the Bauleitung gave these numbers, all the crematoria had been functioning for some period of time. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that the Bauleitung at least had some information upon which to base these figures. Both deniers and their critics agree that an oven could not incinerate a body in 15 minutes time, which is what would be required for the 46 ovens to burn 4416 bodies in 24 hours. The information available from Gusen suggests that the maximum attainable was 25 minutes, and then only by adding a body before the previously introduced body was fully consumed. It is also certain that the ovens could not operate on an indefinite basis for 24 hours per day.

But could an oven burn a body in 15 minutes? Not with the traditional method of burning one body at a time. However, the issue becomes more problematical if multiple body burnings are considered. This means that an oven would burn more than one body at a time. The practice was not unusual in German concentration camps. For example, one of the early histories of Dachau stated that it took 10 to 15 minutes to burn a body. [138] The source does not say how this was accomplished. However, the standard history of Dachau, written some years later, states that an oven could burn 7 to 9 bodies in two hours when they were all introduced simultaneously. [139] Seen in this light, the 15 minutes becomes more feasible. The issue of multiple body burnings will be examined more comprehensively in the next part of this study dealing with fuel consumption.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/

TOPF To J.A. TOPF UND SÖHNE Erfurt, September 8, 1942

Department D IV

Our Mark: D IV/Prf./hes
In Matters of: Reichsführer SS, Berlin-Lichterfelde-West.
Concerning: Krematorium-Auschwitz.

Confidential! Secret!

8.9.42 Herr Obersturmführer Krone calls to say that he was
summoned to meet with Brigadeführer Kämmer and
to report on his inspection of the crematorium in Auschwitz,
whence he had returned yesterday. He could make nothing
of the facilities at Auschwitz and wanted therefore to inform
himself on how many muffles are in operation there at this
time and how many ovens with muffles we are building there
and are still to be delivered.

I told him that at this time 3 double-muffle
ovens are in operation, with a capacity of
250 per day. Further, currently under
construction are 5 triple muffle ovens

with a daily capacity of 800. Today and in the next few
days, 2 eight-muffle ovens, each with a daily capacity
of 800, will come on consignment, redirected from Mogilew.

Mr K said that this number of muffles is not yet sufficient;
we should deliver more ovens as quickly as possible.

Thus, it is appropriate that I come to Berlin Thursday
morning in order to discuss further deliveries with Mr K.
I should bring documents on Auschwitz with me, so that
the urgent calls can be finally silenced once and for all.

I have agreed to the visit for Thursday.

..."we should deliver more ovens as quickly as possible"...2650 corpses per day was not enough...

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/topf/

I'm still waiting to hear more about these convincing Nazi eyewitnesses of yours...

Oh and by the way, what does any of this have to do with the 'PTB'? The 'PTB' have exactly jack shit to do with the study of the Holocaust. Pointless rhetoric on your point.

dogsmilk

01-02-2009, 04:16 PM

David Dees is, at least, consistently thought-provoking and sometimes downright hilarious.

I think he's patchy, his artwork is ugly (though he's obviously 20 billion times better with photoshop than me as I don't know how the fucking thing works) and lots of other other stuff like his cheerleading for Ron 'fuck the poor' Paul just leaves me cold. He comes across like he just uncritically believes every conspiracy idea he comes across.
His Holocaust ones show he simply does not have a clue about it. I mean, that '6 million gassed' one....

Winston Smith pisses all over him.

Nevertheless, that's a brave first step for you, so kudos on the feeble attempt to debunk and inject humour into the hollowco$t.

Cheers. It's actually my second. My first attempt, ages ago, was:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RaIEXF8c1Q8/SGJaebQFJoI/AAAAAAAADgo/xInfgCdvDAs/s400/denierscopy.jpg

jesuitsdidit

05-02-2009, 07:25 PM

the holocaust is not a lie but the reason for the creation of Israel is..

infact the holocaust was planned to justify creating Israel

accuracy

06-02-2009, 04:43 AM

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/zun_dees.jpg

accuracy

06-02-2009, 04:58 AM

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/radar_dees.jpg

NO GRAVES = NO TREBLINKA HOLOCAUST

The remains of 870,000 jews are allegedly buried within this clearing under and around the monuments.
(see link for great pics.)

THE INCREDIBLE SHRINKING HOLOCAUST

According to the official holocaust story, the Germans set up six “extermination camps” in Poland where jews were allegedly murdered in homicidal gas chambers. Before we further expose the alleged “pure” extermination centers as historical frauds, witness what forensic experts have already proven about the two alleged “death / labor” camps of Auschwitz and Majdanek.

Please visit this site:

http://nafcash.com/

accuracy

06-02-2009, 05:05 AM

Forensic Experts Prove Holocaust Gas Chamber Myth a “Sheer Impossibility”

NO DIESEL GASSINGS AT TREBLINKA

“Most Nazi gassings were supposedly committed with diesel exhaust rather than Zyklon B… a working draft paper authored by Walter Lüftl, President of the Austrian Federal Chamber of Engineers, described mass murder with diesel exhaust as a “sheer impossibility.” He substantiated his view as to the relative harmlessness of diesel exhaust… there are no known deaths in cars or trucks with diesel engines! Every night across the world, tens of thousands of truck drivers sleep in their truck cabs with the diesel engines running throughout the night – there is no evidence of even one trucker dying. It never happens. There are no known diesel suicides either… The new 'revised' version of the Holocaust story is even more absurd than the old version. The diesel gas chamber claim is rubbish… Although it would have been theoretically possible to commit the deeds alleged for Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka with diesel engines… It would be hard to imagine a mass murder method more awkward and inefficient. Even if some deranged minds had tried for a time to commit murder with diesel exhaust, after a few tries it would have become apparent to even the most demented fiend that something far better was needed. The idea that the National Socialists actually used such a method is preposterous. It never happened!” (SOURCE)

NOTE: The alleged Treblinka diesel gas chamber lie is only the latest on a long list of ever changing, ludicrous killing methods claimed by the “eyewitnesses” that have been totally debunked by forensic scientists / historians. The following is a list of the absurd and/or physically impossible murder weapons / techniques previously claimed to have been employed at Treblinka: *Exhaust fumes from an unspecified engine, with poison added to the fuel. *A mobile gas chamber that traveled along the edge of the “huge mass graves” and unloaded the corpses into them. *Gas chambers with delayed action gas - which enabled the victims to walk to the mass graves, where they lost consciousness at precisely the right moment - then conveniently fell into them! *Quicklime in trains. *Thrown alive into boiling water. *Steam. (Steam chambers were also “proven” at the Nuremberg show trial and were previously a very commonly claimed method until finally being officially replaced with the equally absurd diesel exhaust method.) *Suffocation. (Sucking the air out of the chambers with a vacuum pump was another commonly claimed method before it too was put down the memory hole.) *Electric current. *Chlorine gas. *And last, but certainly not least - by tearing the children in half, like phone books - WITH BARE HANDS!

* * * * *

Link:
http://nafcash.com/

accuracy

06-02-2009, 05:20 AM

THE TREBLINKA HOLOHOAX

According to the orthodox version of the holocaust, at Treblinka, the Germans murdered and buried, then dug up, burned and crushed the bones, and then reburied all the remains of the 870,000 jews into the same “huge mass graves;” thus, they allegedly “obliterated all evidence of their crime.” If you’re unfamiliar with the controversies surrounding this “judicially proven fact,” then it’s imperative that before you read any further, you understand the forensic argumentation presented in this link HERE:

“This is the biggest cemetery of Polish Jewry… There are 870,000 Jews buried in the enormous ditches… Within this area initially, the Jews were buried in enormous pits… Later on, a sort of grill from railroad tracks was built. The corpses were removed and this area served for burning the corpses… Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka - all three of them were utterly eradicated… Both Treblinka and the other camps, once they had fulfilled their task of extermination, were obliterated… Nothing remains - nothing.”

Nothing remains? Who in their right mind could believe that a perfect crime could be committed while murdering 870,000 people? Everyone knows that at every crime scene - EVIDENCE IS LEFT BEHIND: “Cremated remains weigh between three and nine pounds.” In order to believe the orthodox Treblinka holocaust legend, you must believe this: The Germans, by putting a layer of soil over millions of pounds of bone, tens of millions of teeth and tens of thousands of bullets and shell casings somehow, magically - “utterly eradicated” all evidence of their crime!

Utterly eradicated? How about utter nonsense? Why would the Germans go through all that work, knowing full well there would still be millions of pounds of evidence left behind, then put all that incriminating evidence right back into the very graves that they allegedly had just dug all those bodies out of? It’s understandable when a toddler believes that he’s made himself invisible while playing peek-a-boo by covering his eyes, but how do you explain the insanity of the holocaust “scholars” who believe that a layer of soil can make millions of pounds of evidence magically disappear?

So why do the true believers of holocaust orthodoxy continue believing in the absurd magically disappearing jew “theory,” even after it’s been proven to be a fraudulent cognitive illusion? Are they truly insane, or is it because they’re just cowards who can’t handle the shrieks of “denier” and anti-Semite hurled at anyone who dares to question this nonsensical dogma? Remember, in the “free democracies” of Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Israel, Italy, Lithuania, New Zealand, Poland, Romania, Slovakia and Switzerland, you can literally be thrown in prison for refusing to believe the official lies of the alleged “pure extermination centers.” Of course, the feckless cowards who don’t want to know the truth and who lack the character to speak the truth can go about unmolested by the high priests of holocaust orthodoxy in their “free democracies.” But woe to the heretic who dares to ask: So just where exactly are all these “huge mass graves” filled with millions of pounds of human remains anyway?

To put this UTTERLY ILLOGICAL FRAUD in perspective, it’s like someone claiming that he could murder every single man, woman and child in Montana and magically not leave a single trace of his crime! Do you see how incredibly easy a little common sense, logic and skeptical inquiry exposes the ludicrous fraud of this classic example of the big-lie technique? Nothing in the world could be easier to prove than the alleged Treblinka holocaust - IF this legend is true. If all the time, money and effort that’s gone into the harassing, arresting, fining and imprisoning of the holocaust heretics went into locating the alleged huge mass graves of Treblinka, then this issue would have been settled years ago. Why do you think the jews would rather have people thrown in prison for not believing their nonsensical manufactured history than actually locating the alleged huge mass graves? Why do you think they incessantly lie about the Treblinka holocaust being a proven historical fact, shriek holocaust denier at and refuse to debate anyone with the intelligence and courage to call them on this ridiculous tall tale? The answer is, of course, because there was no Treblinka holocaust. (This is a classic example of what happens when pseudo-intellectuals become so invested in an idea; after a while, even honest mistakes have to be sustained by ignoring and eventually falsifying the facts.)

Every alleged German “death camp” is best understood when looked at as a holocaust within the holocaust. No matter what anyone thinks about the holocaust per se, one thing is eminently clear - the Treblinka holocaust didn’t happen. To believe that the Germans could “obliterate” all evidence of the murder of 870,000 jews requires incredible gullibility and a lack of intelligence, logic and critical thinking skills. It requires a belief in magic and a rejection of criminology, archeology and forensic science. IF there was a Treblinka holocaust, then there are huge mass graves filled with millions of pounds of evidence to prove it. Until the alleged huge mass graves of Treblinka are found - NO mass graves = NO bone fragments / teeth = NO burning of bodies = NO homicidal gas chambers = NO mass murder = NO extermination camp = NO Treblinka holocaust = THE TRUTH – TREBLINKA II WAS A TRANSIT CAMP, and the so called gas chambers were, in reality, DELOUSING FACILITIES designed to protect the health and prolong the lives of the shameless liars who fraudulently claimed to be the victims of a genocidal extermination program. Remember, there are only two options: extermination center (for those who believe in magic) or transit camp (for those who believe in the scientific method). There is no third option and only one truth.

NOTE: In 1990, Shmuel Krakowski, the archives director of Israel’s Yad Vashem Holocaust Center, finally admitted that the “jewish soap” story was a lie. This ludicrous atrocity propaganda had been “proven” at the Nuremberg show trial and staunchly defended as irrefutable historical fact for more than 45 years. In jettisoning this absurdity, the holocaust scholars were no more denying history than someone who refuses to believe the absurd magically disappearing jew “theory.” And they only did it reluctantly. They only admitted the lie because it had become untenable. KRAKOWSKI ADMITTED: “Historians have concluded that soap was not made from human fat. When so many people deny the holocaust ever happened, why give them something to use against the truth?”

The truth indeed. Historical “truths” are not exempt from the scientific method! It’s time to locate the alleged huge mass graves of Treblinka, or it’s time to admit that THE TREBLINKA HOLOCAUST STORY IS A LIE: “An article re-evaluating Steiner's book Treblinka recently appeared in the French journal Revue d'histoire de la Shoah. There it was made abundantly plain Treblinka was nothing less than a deliberate attempt to hoodwink the reader into believing the book was a real work of history… Many formerly sympathetic and supportive scholars and journalists now complain bitterly of having been intentionally deceived by Steiner and his novel-as-true-history on the Treblinka concentration camp… What he and others insisted in the book's Introduction, Preface, and Afterword was a scholarly chronicle of certain tragic events had, in fact, been a melodramatic novel… When he wrote the most important part of his book… Steiner had finally to confess that he relied almost solely on his own imagination.”

RECAP: Despite the fact that it’s been over twenty years since Jean-François Steiner admitted that his fraudulent book Treblinka was purely the product of his imagination, this novel-as-true-history, this falsification / forgery is still readily available for loan in libraries all across America. And it’s still cataloged under non-fiction! How? Because it is now referred to as a “novelized” historical account! (Welcome to the Alice in Wonderland world of holocaust “scholarship,” where holocaust “history” is what the jews say it is, nothing more - nothing less.) And despite the fact that they have yet to locate / prove the existence of one single grave, one single pound of bone fragments or so much as one single tooth to back up their claim, the holocaust industry wants you to believe that the physically impossible story of the alleged Treblinka holocaust really is true. (Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!)

Link:

http://nafcash.com/

accuracy

06-02-2009, 05:29 AM

$100,000.00

REWARD

For locating / proving the existence of just one grave that contains just one tenth of one percent of the alleged mass murder.

Link:

http://nafcash.com/

accuracy

06-02-2009, 05:35 AM

THE “PURE EXTERMINATION CENTERS”

(Unable to post graph here )

“UTTERLY ERADICATED” ALL EVIDENCE OF THEIR CRIME?

Do you really believe that two million people could be murdered without leaving a trace?

Link:

http://nafcash.com/

accuracy

06-02-2009, 05:42 AM

To illustrate just how easy it is to debunk the big lie that burning bodies makes them magically disappear, look at the following (chapter 4.3) from Arnulf Neumaier’s THE TREBLINKA HOLOCAUST: “Regarding the claim that the 870,000 corpses were eliminated completely without any trace, we must consider the quantities of ashes that remain… The ash content of a human body makes up about 5.6% of the body's weight; given a 132 lb. body, this comes to 7.3 lbs. The remains from the 870,000 burned bodies would thus have weighed 6,351,000 pounds, all of which (according to the witnesses) were then mixed with the soil and thrown back into the pits, which would be easy to find evidence for human remains in the quantity alleged by the witnesses. It must also be noted that in the “incineration” of corpses under the conditions specified by the witnesses, the bones would not have turned to ash, but would have remained as bones.”

NOTE: You do understand that even modern cremation techniques don’t reduce bodies to ashes, but rather to BONES, right? Disingenuously referring to the alleged cremation process as “incineration,” and cremated remains as “ashes,” rather than correctly referring to them as bones, is a crucial component of this big-lie / cognitive illusion.

So what’s the jews response when it’s conclusively demonstrated that burning bodies on pyres doesn’t make them magically disappear? “Why, the Germans obliterated all the evidence by crushing the bones,” they shriek. To illustrate how absurd this is, and how easy it is to debunk the crushing-the-bones-equals-obliteration thesis, take a look at these photos of the REAL HOLOCAUST that the allies inflicted on Dresden Germany. (Please view photos 0030.jpg through 0041.jpg.) And what’s the jews response when it’s conclusively demonstrated that crushing bones doesn’t make them magically disappear either? “Why, those evil geniuses reburied the bone fragments in the huge mass graves and then covered it all up with a layer of soil,” they screech. Do you understand the insanity of this? If burning the bodies and crushing the bones doesn’t “obliterate all evidence” of mass murder, then how can the simple act of covering the bones and teeth with dirt do the trick?

Even though the so-called “holocaust expert” Yitzhak Arad testified in the John Demjanjuk trial that: “No trace of the extermination operation remain,” the fraudulent “skeptic” MICHAEL SHERMER claims that he’s used the methods of science to prove that the alleged millions of pounds of bone fragments and tens of millions of teeth at Treblinka (and Sobibor) really do exist! What’s wrong with this picture? To illustrate the sophistic machinations that the holocaust industry (which of course includes Shermer and his “Skeptics” Society) has gone through to make this fraudulent claim, look at this montage of quotes from Shermer’s spurious novel-as-true-history - Denying History: “The purpose of this book is to… show precisely, with solid evidence, how we know the Holocaust happened… we must obey the rules of reason and apply the tools of science… Historians both discover and describe the past, just as natural scientists… we can use the methods of science to… marshal the evidence and apply tight logic… This process is practiced by all scientists… historical scientists, geologists, paleontologists and archaeologists, to prove that anything in the past happened… We must review the physical evidence in conjunction with written documents and eyewitness testimonies… As historical scientists, however, we realize that… when the participating scholars play by the rules of science, logic, and reason… hypotheses can be weighed against the evidence.”

What evidence? If Shermer, who insists that he must see compelling evidence before he believes anything, has proven the holocaust via the scientific method, then he must have located / proven the existence of tons of bone fragments and millions of teeth that proves the alleged Treblinka holocaust, right? But why then can’t the jews, who are incredulous that rational people reject their asinine magically disappearing jew “theory,” locate / prove the existence of so much as one single pound of bone fragments or a single tooth at Treblinka? And why do you think the jews have declared a literal MODERN INQUISITION to silence skeptics of the official holocaust story and punish those who wish to investigate and expose this historical fraud?

Of course, those were all rhetorical questions. Jewish propaganda exemplified by Shermer’s Denying History is nothing but pure Orwellian rectification of history; damage control to counter the harm that the holocaust truth movement is doing to their sinking ship of lies. THE HOLOCAUST INDUSTRY has sophistically attempted to elevate the study of history into a “science,” then use this newly manufactured science to prove their false history, thus; claiming to repudiate real science without offering an iota of scientific / physical evidence for the alleged Treblinka holocaust. Not a single grave. Not a single pound of bone fragments. Not so much as a single tooth! The truth is; the “science of history” claptrap was contrived to create and compound complication and confusion. They’re trying to blind you with sophistically manufactured science just in case you have the common sense to see through their maliciously manufactured history.

So if Shermer and all the other officially sanctioned holocaust “scholars” can’t offer an iota of tangible physical evidence to back up their fraudulent claim that the alleged Treblinka holocaust has been scientifically proven, then what’s left for the true believers to cling to in justifying their continued belief in the orthodox version of the story? Why - the perfect crime / magically disappearing jew “theory” of course! It simply boggles the mind that it’s necessary to explain to these so-called educated adults (just as you would to a three-year-old child), that by covering something up with dirt you’re not actually making it magically disappear. (And we haven’t even touched on the most asinine claim of all - that the Germans were able to burn these millions of bodies by the ingenious “discovery” that by stacking the bodies “just right,” they’ll “catch” fire and magically burn all by themselves - just like fire logs!) Just as astonishing is the fact that even after seeing conclusive proof that the official Treblinka legend is nothing but one physical impossibility after another and that the latest jewish holocaust is the most grossly exaggerated event of the 20th century, the true believers are totally unaffected by the truth. Why? Because they would then have to admit that the fraudulent Treblinka holocaust is a literal JEWISH CONSPIRACY, and that would make them (gasp!) an anti-Semite!

RECAP: So what exactly is the significance of the fact that this fraudulent holocaust within the holocaust is a malicious lie? First, the pure extermination center myth cannot stand if the Treblinka cornerstone is pulled. And if the Treblinka holohoax is debunked, then the equally synthetic pillars of Belzec, Chelmno and Sobibor become untenable and the fraudulent “pure extermination center” legend collapses. And without the pure extermination center canard, the official version of the final solution becomes untenable, ergo - no extermination program. Secondly, it irrefutably proves that not only is the Treblinka holohoax a literal jewish conspiracy, but also that the orthodox holocaust story is a malicious lie. Even if the Treblinka holohoax is the only remaining segment of the entire holocaust story that is false (which obviously it isn’t), that still makes the holocaust industry’s version of the story a lie. (A story that is only 1% maliciously false is still a lie.) Third, it exposes the jews unconscionable tactic of accusing those who question any aspect of the orthodox holocaust story, no matter how logical their reasons for being skeptical, as being a “DENIER.”

Link:

http://nafcash.com/

accuracy

06-02-2009, 05:55 AM

“Eyewitness” Yankel Wiernik’s model of the phantom “huge mass graves” of Treblinka that allegedly contain Millions of pounds of bone fragments, tens of millions of teeth and tens of thousands of bullets and shell casings.

Now who in their right mind could believe the official story that millions of pounds of evidence were “utterly eradicated” by a layer of soil and couldn’t be detected today with the use of modern archeological / forensic science techniques? Compounding the obvious absurdity that the pseudo “science” of history gives eyewitness testimony more credence than tangible physical evidence (or the lack thereof) is the fact that every single “eyewitness” that helped to “historically” prove the preposterous Treblinka legend was a shameless PATHOLOGICAL LIAR. Don’t believe it? Well then, since Michael Shermer (who is also the president of the “Skeptics” Society and publisher of “SKEPTIC” magazine) has such disdain for real skeptics (i.e. - intelligent / logical people who refuse to share his delusion that millions of jews can magically vanish from the face of the earth without leaving a trace), “SKEPTIC” magazine should be more than willing to publish the results of any scientific investigation that claims to have proven that this asinine pure extermination center legend has been forensically proven to be a fact. Therefore, all one has to do to become an applicant for THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE TM reward, is to have said claims / results first published in “SKEPTIC” Magazine. Now, just how hard should it be to prove the existence of just one “huge mass grave” that contains just one tenth of one percent (3,500 pounds of cremated bone fragments or 27,000 teeth) of the alleged mass murder - IF the official story is true?

To all those who want to put an end to holocaust denial and who still believe that the “deniers” are crazy when they talk about jewish conspiracies (But your belief in magically disappearing jews is sane, right?), then why haven’t you accepted THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE TM? And why don’t you ASK MICHAEL SHERMER why he refuses to take advantage of this golden opportunity to help stop holocaust denial? And while you’re challenging Shermer, why don’t you remind him of what he wrote in his deluding novel DENYING HISTORY: “We also traveled to the camps themselves, to… Treblinka, Sobibor… to test the claims that no mass murders took place by intention at these camps.” Really? So just how many pounds of bone fragments did he find? We don’t know, because he refuses to answer any questions about his alleged research. Which is why you should remind him about another of his quotes from Denying History: “Others have argued that to meet with the deniers or answer their claims is to validate them, but we believe that to let their arguments go unanswered presents the greater danger.” So why then does Shermer refuse to answer simple questions and/or accept THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE TM?

If “the world’s foremost skeptic” (who insists his sophomoric CONVERGENCE OF EVIDENCE theory “historically” proves the holocaust), can’t locate / prove the existence of just one single “huge mass grave” that contains just 1/10th of 1% of this absurd myth, then what does that say about the veracity of this so-called historically proven fact? What Shermer and the holocaust industry are being challenged to prove is undeniably a scientifically knowable truth and a forensically provable fact. Anyone who believes otherwise is delusional. That is of course - IF the legend is true. Don’t believe it? The following is from holocaust “scholar” Yitzhak Arad’s deluding novel (which was written to rectify the damage that was done to the Treblinka holohoax by Steiner’s embarrassing confession of fraud / forgery) BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA, chapter 23 - The Erasure of the Crimes: “The camp command was confronted with the problem of disposing of the large piles of ash and bits of bone that remained… Ultimately it was decided to dump the ash and bits of bone into the ditches that had previously held the bodies and to cover them with a thick layer of sand and dirt… [“Eyewitness”] Abraham Goldfarb relates: …’we secretly placed in the walls of the graves whole skeletons and we wrote on scraps of paper what the Germans were doing at Treblinka. We put the scraps of paper into bottles, which we placed next to the skeletons. Our intention was that if one day someone looked for traces of the Nazis’ crimes, they could indeed be found.’”

Yes, the graves and bones could be easily found indeed - IF the story was true. Yet Michael Shermer accuses real skeptics of “denying history” because they refuse to share his delusional belief that the Germans were able to murder millions of jews without leaving a trace! In his sophomoric and sophistic attempt to “prove” this accusation, he not only had to turn the scientific method on its head, but the fundamental principles of skepticism as well. For proof of this, let’s again look at his own words from Denying History: “The best way to beat a lie detector is to believe the lie yourself… Deception becomes self-deception.” Really? Well then, let’s use the alleged Treblinka holocaust as a case study in denial and self-deception. Here’s another montage of Michael Shermer quotes from Denying History: “The culmination of years of research… our purpose… to present the historical facts that refute Holocaust denial… To debunk the deniers can’t we just go there and see them for ourselves? The answer, of course, is “yes.” We can no longer ignore the deniers, calling them names and hoping they will go away… We cannot remain silent anymore. It’s time to respond… Not only is it defensible to respond to the deniers, it is, we believe, our duty… Many of our arguments draw on specialized research into the claims of the deniers that took us to the Nazi extermination camps themselves… We went to Europe to conduct research at the camps, in particular at… Treblinka, Sobibor… We wanted to see for ourselves just what evidence there is at the camps and to take the opportunity to examine firsthand the claims… in order to make proper interpretations; we must review the physical evidence… Like criminologists solving a crime, we piece together the myriad bits of evidence until a conclusion emerges from the morass of data… How is it that so much physical evidence can come to be doubted?”

Reviewing the physical evidence? Like a criminologist solving a crime? Well now, true skeptics and legitimate scholars have been waiting for years for Shermer to disclose just what physical evidence his alleged firsthand examination of Treblinka (and Sobibor) found. And if he’s so incredulous that people can come to doubt so much alleged physical evidence, then why does he refuse to publish the results of his alleged research? (What happened to his duty to respond?) If there’s so much physical evidence - then why does he refuse to disclose its location?

So why are the billion dollar per-year holocaust industry and its fawning front men at the “Skeptics” Society afraid to honestly apply the scientific method to the fairy tale known as the Treblinka holocaust? It really is this incredibly simple: The alleged Treblinka holocaust literally stands or falls on the existence of the alleged “huge mass graves” / millions of pounds of evidence, and the nonsensical lies of Belzec, Chelmno and Sobibor become untenable (as if they’re not already!) if the truth about Treblinka is exposed. Are you beginning to understand why the jews have gotten holocaust denial (jewish code name for THE TRUTH) to be a criminal offense in 15 countries of the world? And the “Skeptics” Society is aiding and abetting them in this immoral inquisition! And to add insult to injury, they’re prostituting themselves to the holocaust industry under the guise of skeptical inquiry and the scientific method! That explains why the alleged Treblinka holocaust had to be “proven” with the “science of history” instead of archeology / forensic science. The only other explanation for this craven refusal to apply the scientific method to scientifically knowable truths and forensically provable facts is that the logically retarded pseudo-skeptics at the Schleptics Society actually believe in magically disappearing jews!

Of course, if all these charges are unfounded, then it begs the question: Why does Michael SHAMMER refuse to publish the findings of his alleged investigations which he claims he conducted at Treblinka? (And Sobibor.) Odd behavior for a “scientist” who claims he wants to put an end to holocaust denial – isn’t it? Especially when you consider what he also shamelessly declared in his deluding novel Denying History: “We must be forthright and honest about what we know and do not know about the holocaust… It is the duty of informed experts on a subject to share their knowledge… Truth will always win out when the evidence is made available for all to see.” Are you beginning to understand why this shameless fraud (whose “Skeptic” Society, by the way, is literally infested with jews) is considered by true skeptics to be the Quisling of the skeptical community?

NOTE: Exposing the malicious fraud of the “pure extermination center” canard via THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD is not “denying” the holocaust. Forensically proving that the largest mass gravesite in the history of mankind is, in reality, a fraudulent hoax is not “denying” the holocaust. Refusing to accept a logically absurd, demonstratively false, scientifically debunked historical event is not “denying” the holocaust. Just because the dull-uding “experts” lack the curiosity to examine, the intelligence to understand, the courage to accept, the integrity to acknowledge and the character to speak the truth about this fraudulent cognitive illusion does not make a skeptic of the official holocaust story a “denier.” (By the way, you cannot “deny” something that doesn’t exist or never happened.)

RECAP: Burning bodies destroys all evidence? DEBUNKED. Crushing bones destroys all evidence? DEBUNKED. Putting millions of pounds of bone fragments into huge pits and covering it over with a layer of soil destroys all evidence? DEBUNKED. Michael Shermer’s deluding boast that he’s proven the orthodox version of the Treblinka / Sobibor holocausts? Easily, logically, scientifically, forensically and irrefutably DEBUNKED: “That's the only way to understand this subject. It has to be studied carefully… If you slow down and look carefully at the logic, his ‘jumping together’ illusion doesn't work… Shermer has set up his argument in such a way that the ordinary methods of logic don't apply… This is like a shell game: you have to watch what he's doing… The Shermer principle is not logic… The jumping together phenomenon is how illusionists produce their illusions.”

Link:

http://nafcash.com/

accuracy

06-02-2009, 06:00 AM

The Ever-Changing Treblinka Holocaust Shell Game

(Unable to post graph here.)

Link:

http://nafcash.com/

accuracy

06-02-2009, 06:02 AM

Do you now understand the Orwellian machinations that have been required to maintain the ever-changing Treblinka holohoax story? Sophistic propaganda, exemplified by the so-called “science of history,” is utterly devoid of any tangible physical evidence that supports the deluding claim that the latest version of the Treblinka holocaust has been scientifically proven. It’s a vacuous mix of propaganda by omission, rehashed fraudulent “eyewitness accounts” and new big-lies which the holocaust industry is now using to rectify THE ORIGINAL BIG-LIE. Do you see how incredibly easy a little skeptical inquiry exposes the malicious fraud of this classic example of the big-lie technique? Do you see how easy it is to see through their lies when you open your eyes and think for yourself? Now you know why the jews want to silence and persecute skeptical forensic scientists / historians who wish to investigate and expose this historical fraud.

Link:

http://nafcash.com/

accuracy

06-02-2009, 06:05 AM

Lest you think there must be some truth to the asinine pure extermination center canard

(That’s the psychology of the big-lie technique at work)

THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE TM

Also includes the alleged Sobibor holocaust.
The following information will further illustrate just how incredibly easy laying claim to THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE TM should be - IF the official version of the alleged “pure extermination centers” is true and the spurious claims that they’ve been scientifically proven via archeological investigations are not fraudulent:

(Reuters - 11/23/01) - Warsaw - Polish archaeologists excavating the Nazi death camp in Sobibor said they have found mass graves at the site. (According to official Polish accounts, 250,000 people were killed in Sobibor.) “We uncovered seven mass graves with an average depth of five meters. In them there were charred human remains and under them remains in a state of decay.” Archaeologist Andrzej Kola was quoted by the Polish PAP news agency telling a news conference. He said the largest grave measured 70 x 25 meters, the others 20 x 25 meters. Wladyslaw Bartoszewski, a former Polish foreign minister said - “It’s vital to gather evidence to refute the claim of those seeking to deny the Holocaust. The work will continue, we have to confirm scientifically that this camp existed.”

So the alleged “huge mass graves” of Sobibor have been intact there for the last 65 years? Filled with “charred human remains?” Say what? What happened to “utterly eradicated?” What happened to “totally obliterated?” Do you see the conundrum that the jews and their minions have lied themselves into? For years the official versions of the alleged Treblinka and Sobibor holocausts were virtually identical, then suddenly, the masters of the big-lie technique claim that the fraudulent Sobibor fable has been forensically proven, yet with the same breath they claim that not an iota of tangible physical evidence can be located at Treblinka! These contradictory claims can’t both be true. (But they can both be false!) This is pure ORWELLIAN doublethinking. (The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously and accepting both of them.) And if they have to “confirm scientifically that this camp existed,” then what are they waiting for? It’s been over 7 years since the Kola hoax and they still haven’t located / proven the existence of so much as one single grave or so much as one tenth of one percent (1,000 pounds of cremated bone fragments or 8,000 teeth) of this fraud.

But that’s just the beginning of their problems, because: It’s just another BIG-LIE. There were no “huge mass graves” found. There were no “excavations.” There were no “remains in a state of decay” discovered. There were no “charred human remains” uncovered. In fact, there is NO EVIDENCE that Kola so much as stepped foot in Sobibor, much less any evidence that he actually conducted any archeological investigation. The entire claim that “huge mass graves” were discovered is yet another fraudulent cognitive illusion. To date, not one grave, not one body, not one pound of bone fragments, not one single tooth has ever been located / proven to exist at Sobibor. (Or Treblinka.) NOT ONE! It’s all a big-lie. Not one of the alleged claims made by Kola has been “confirmed scientifically.” Kola’s alleged investigation is as fraudulently deluding as Shermer’s. The Sobibor and Treblinka holocausts aren’t just gross exaggerations - they didn’t happen.

For those of you who lack the courage to accept the above facts and wish to continue to deny the truth, then the ball is in your court. The supporters of THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE TM have put their money where their mouths are and it’s time for the criminally fraudulent holocaust industry, their mealy-mouthed “skeptical” minions, bought whores in the media and their servile Judas-Goats in our government indoctrination centers to put up or shut up. If you also lack the integrity to acknowledge the fact that there were no holocausts within the holocaust at Sobibor and Treblinka (1/5th of the entire holocaust), then ask yourself this one simple question: Why does THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE TM reward remain unclaimed? Remember, the sham “skeptic” Michael Shermer claims that he’s scientifically proven that these alleged holocausts happened and the equally spurious COUNTERFEIT ARCHEOLOGIST Andrzej Kola claims that he’s used the science of archeology to locate / prove the existence of Sobibor’s alleged “huge mass graves” / cremation remains.

Now, if you lack the intelligence to understand that these big-lies are as fraudulently deluding as those who made them and you sincerely want to put an end to holocaust denial, then here is your literal treasure map of - SOBIBOR. (Just like at Treblinka - all graves, cremated bone fragments and / or teeth located / proven to exist must come from inside the clearing surrounding and/or within / under the “huge mound of human remains” / monument, which is, in and of itself, considered to be a “huge mass grave.”)

RECAP: Do you understand now how these cognitive illusions work? Do you see how the holocaust industry uses FRAUDULENT “EYEWITNESS” TESTIMONY and deluding emotionally charged displays to short-circuit your ability to reason? The fraudulent claims that the alleged “huge mass graves” have been scientifically proven are as laughably transparent as the original big-lie that over two million jews were murdered in the “pure extermination centers” and the subsequent magically disappearing jew excuse used in lieu of corpus delicti in the show trials. The maliciously fabricated cognitive illusion of the officially sanctioned (and jewish sanctified) “pure extermination center” myth is so vacuous, that one has to question the intelligence, courage, character and sanity of those who, after being exposed to the truth, continue to believe, espouse and “teach” the orthodox version of the holocaust. It’s analogous to someone still believing the big-lie / cognitive illusion that Iraq really did have “Weapons of Mass Destruction.” The illusionary “pure extermination centers” were simply the WMDs of WWII.

* * * * *

Link:

http://nafcash.com/

accuracy

06-02-2009, 06:12 AM

EPILOGUE

(Again, unable to post pic here.)

THIS IS THE REASON FOR ALL THE LIES ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST

The latest jewish holocaust is simply JEWISH MYTHOLOGY disguised as history. To better understand this fact, it’s imperative that you read the anthology below. It will also help you understand why the jewish supremacists, along with their CHRISTIAN ZIONIST DUPES (and their servile judas goats in the media and our government indoctrination centers), maliciously define telling the truth about the holocaust as a hate crime and are working frantically to undermine the First Amendment and stifle free speech by literally contriving a new inquisition. (You must understand that their ultimate goal is to make it illegal for ANYONE - ANYWHERE to question the veracity of their fraudulent, self-serving “sacred six million” myth.) If you’re finding all this hard to accept, then ask yourself this: Why did the jews make the claim that six million of their co-religionists perished in a holocaust during WW I? (Yes, that’s WORLD WAR ONE!) There’s a reason why the malicious lies of the holocaust and the fraudulent, cognitive illusions of the “pure extermination centers” were contrived in the first place and are still being told after 65 years. And that is the same reason why the jews are so terrified that the truth will out about this fraudulent hoax that they’ve gone so far as faking investigations to buttress their jew-dicially “proven” history - which is falling apart at the seams.

The ILLEGITIMATE state of israel literally owes its existence to the grossly exaggerated and in most cases maliciously fabricated holocaust story; The official holocaust story is utterly dependent upon the sacred six million myth; The sacred six million myth is utterly dependent upon the exterminationist’s fraudulent version of the final solution; And the final solution canard is utterly dependent upon the orthodox version of the alleged pure extermination centers. The MYTHOLOGY OF JUDAISM was used as the impetus for WW II atrocity propaganda (which didn’t “take” during WW I), which begot the show trials / German re-education scheme, which morphed into post war support-for-israel propaganda, which has metastasized into the current incessant brainwashing and LITERAL INQUISITION. If the holocaust / sacred six million prophecy hadn’t allegedly been fulfilled, then the rebirth of the state of israel could not have been legitimate in the eyes of the orthodox jews / christian zionists. And without the creation of israel, there could be no building of the third temple on the mount. And without the building of the third temple, there could be no coming of the jewish messiah or the second coming of jesus. And of course without all this, there could be no end times / rapture / apocalypse / armageddon, etc.

In order to fully understand the RELIGIOUS significance of the latest jewish holocaust (which is torah prophecy that had to be fulfilled before there could be a rebirth of israel), you must understand its fundamental significance to events in the world today. (They are directly related to the lies that were used to justify the United States invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq.) The following articles will give you a basic understanding of how the holocaust myth is used to justify the U.S. governments unfailing support of israel’s BRUTAL SUBJUGATION of the Palestinians and why it is directly related to the whole end times / rapture / apocalypse / armageddon / cult of csrael nonsense. To better understand these incontrovertible facts, please read the following anthology:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20:

“Jewish prophecies in the Torah require that 6 million Jews must ‘vanish’ before the state of Israel can be formed. ‘You shall return minus 6 million.’ That's why Tom Segev, an Israeli historian, declared that the ‘sacred 6 million’ is an attempt to transform the holocaust story into state religion… Those six million, according to prophecy, had to disappear in ‘burning ovens,’ which the judicial version of the holocaust now authenticates… ‘Without the Holocaust, there would be no Jewish State.’”

* * * * *

NOTE: Are you aware that the jews and their minions have gotten laws passed in nine states – California, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Mississippi, Missouri, New Jersey, New York and Washington, that mandate that this nonsensical, religiously based atrocity propaganda be taught to our children as “irrefutable historical fact?” (Laws that sanctify an “official version” of any historical event are the first step in criminalizing contradictory interpretations.) Every time a teacher vomits up the lies of holocaustianity onto his students, he’s brainwashing them with maliciously manufactured false history based on jewish mythology. Any educator who doesn’t understand why the zionists can’t accept a lower figure than the “sacred six million” and/or who still believes that the total number of jewish deaths “doesn’t matter,” shouldn’t even be allowed in a classroom. And if it doesn’t matter, then why is it illegal in 15 countries of the world for heretics to reveal that the actual figure is far less than the sacred six million? It’s analogous to being imprisoned for denying the “fact” that the earth is six thousand years old!

RECAP: So how does it feel to find out that you’ve been lied to your entire life for the benefit of jews, israel and zionism? Remember, all lies are told for a reason. Historical fabrications and exaggerations (and/or the outright SUPPRESSION OF THE TRUTH) are told to alter your perceptions and create a false reality. (Those who control the past control the present.) If your beliefs are based on half-truths and lies (half-truths make the most convincing lies), then you are being maliciously misled by those who control the foundation of your reality - your “knowledge.” If your knowledge is not based on the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then your reality is simply the creation of what the zionist propagandists want it to be. False knowledge creates false reality.

Who benefits from your maliciously altered perceptions and resultant false reality?

Why do people continue to believe in physical impossibilities even after being confronted with incontrovertible facts that refute them? Because you can’t convince a true believer of anything, for their beliefs are not based on science and reason, they’re based on faith and a deep-seated NEED to believe. Hence, most propaganda isn’t designed to fool the critical thinker, but rather;

Only to give self-deceiving cowards an excuse not to think at all.

* * * * *

NONE ARE SO BLIND AS THOSE WHO REFUSE TO SEE

NONE ARE AS HOPELESSLY ENSLAVED

AS THOSE WHO FALSELY BELIEVE THEY ARE FREE

NONE ARE SO DEAF AS THOSE WHO REFUSE TO HEAR

THE TRUTH THAT REFUTES THEIR DOGMA

AND THE LIES THAT THEY HOLD SO DEAR

NONE ARE SO CRAVEN AS THOSE WHO HIDE FROM THE TRUTH

AND NOTHING IS WORSE THAN A COWARD

WHO TEACHES PROPAGANDA AND LIES TO OUR YOUTH

* * * * *

PLEASE NOTE: In order to ensure that all contracts are actionable;

Only legal residents of the United States are eligible to support THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE TM

For more information, please contact Greg Gerdes, NAFH president at - treblinkafraud@yahoo.com

All information on this website, including information accessed via hyperlinks, constitutes a fair use of any copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the USA Copyright Law.

* * * * *

The National Association of Forensic Historians TM is a non-profit, 501 (c) (3) (exempt), Scientific / Historical / Educational Organization established in 2004.

All rights reserved.

Link:

http://nafcash.com/

sophia_h

06-02-2009, 11:23 AM

`

Mass grave of Germans discovered in Poland

WARSAW: The remains of 1,800 German civilians who perished in 1945, towards the end of the World War II, have been exhumed from a mass grave in Malbork, northern Poland, officials said yesterday.

“Since it was discovered in October, we have exhumed the remains of 1,800 people who we are almost certain were Malbork residents,” municipal official Piotr Szwedowski said.

Malbork was once part of the German region of East Prussia and was known as Marienburg, but was in the territory handed over to Poland after World War II.

Men, women and children of all ages were found in the grave, Szwedowski said.

“Some of the victims must have been shot dead. One skull in 10 bears bullet holes,” he added.

Investigators believe the grave was dug in the spring of 1945, as the Soviet Red Army advanced from the east.

It was discovered by accident in October last year on the construction site of a luxury hotel in the heart of Malbork.

It lies around 300m from the mediaeval castle of the Order of Teutonic Knights, which is one of Poland’s most popular tourist attractions.

“The bodies were strewn about in a chaotic fashion in a vast crater created by a shell explosion,” Szwedowski said.

State prosecutors in Malbork have opened an investigation.

“The exhumation work is not complete, but due to freezing temperatures we have had to suspend it for the time being,” prosecutor Waldemar Zduniak said.
Polish press reports suggest the Red Army may have killed some of the victims, while others perished in aerial bombardments, from starvation or hypothermia.

“It will be a difficult investigation,” Szwedowski said.

“All of the people were buried naked, without shoes or any personal effects. Metal detectors found no traces during the exhumation work conducted so far, not even dental work,” he said.

Some 30,000 people lived in the German-era city. In the spring of 1945, the city was the site of savage battles between the advancing Red Army and retreating Nazi German forces.

As the Red Army was approaching, Malbork residents, mostly ethnic Germans, were ordered to evacuate deeper into the Third Reich. The fate of 1,800 of the 3,800 people known to have stayed behind has long remained a mystery.

-AFP

http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=265377&version=1&template_id=39&parent_id=21

.

sophia_h

06-02-2009, 11:53 AM

`

PHOTOS at link.
WARNING, gross.

http://www.nazigassings.com/

America's handiwork: Victims of disease–generally typhus–at Belsen, a direct result of the Anglo-American bombing and strafing of axis civilians and civilian targets.

The Germans are still falsely blamed. General Dwight D. EISENHOWER had even forced thousands of German civilians to walk past the dead as if they were somehow responsible.
He should have looked at himself in the mirror, instead. Belsen was his handiwork.

Such horrors were also the handiwork of all of America's and Britain's leaders, from the highest to the lowest. Just what did they expect to find after years of bombing and strafing every conceivable target from entire cities to lone farmers in their fields?

The real horrors of the so-called holocaust, in pictures that everyone should look at, were America's own doing.

Don't be shy, don't deny--take pride in your achievement America!

You did it!

But, instead of embracing their own achievements, they actually believe they were the “good guys.”

They continue to blame the Germans, especially those “fiendish” Nazis, for what they themselves had caused.

They themselves were the true fiends and criminals. But they won the war. And EISENHOWER, instead of being hung as the depraved and cowardly war criminal that he truly was, actually rose to become president of Columbia University and later the United States–an American hero and an inspiration for future generations!

( Eisenhower the Terribel Swedish JEW , as he was
called by his West point Classmates S.)

The above picture and countless others like it are also used to support the gassing claims when, in fact, the people who generally do this know perfectly well that not even one of the bodies shown in any photo, anywhere, is of someone killed with poison, or poison gas of any kind.

Dr. Charles P. Larson, an American pathologist, was just one of the doctors specifically assigned to find forensic evidence of deaths from poison or gas and they all found nothing!

ANNE FRANK was also among the dead at Bergen-Belsen. She died there from typhus even though she had spent many months in Auschwitz in 1944. She had later been evacuated to Bergen-Belsen and died there just two weeks before the camp was turned over to a British medical team on April 15, 1945 as part of a negotiated truce which had been initiated by the SS.

It was the British who had delayed the actual transfer of the camp for several days, perhaps even weeks, because of special security demands they had put upon the SS. See footnote 34 of my essay “Typhus and the Jews.”

Anne Frank and countless others had “survived” Auschwitz because the Nazis had wanted them to “survive.” If the Nazis had wanted them to die, they certainly would have been able to arrange it–but they, obviously, had no desire to kill her even though Anne Frank's usefulness to the Nazi war effort would have been close to nil. They fed her, and clothed her with clean lice-free clothing, and provided shelter and security and much more as best they could in spite of the war. If they had simply left her out in the cold winter, she would have died quickly from exposure--but they had kept her warm and alive instead.

It was British and American terror bombing and strafing that ultimately murdered Anne Frank–NOT the Nazis! Her unburied remains were probably still there when the British entered the camp and may even be identified someday in a picture such as the one above. Of course, the Americans and Brits had not murdered her intentionally–Anne Frank's death was merely the kind of collateral damage that “happens.” If she had merely been any German girl of the same age, there would be nothing to talk about.

For example, 140 German girls named "Anne" were murdered in Würzburg on March 16, 1945 by the Allied bombing in which 7,000 people were killed. To the suggestion that Anne Frank would never have died if the Nazis had not imprisoned her, the fact is that America had been sponsoring underground terrorists throughout Europe for years.

If the Germans did not shoot likely partisans outright, they had to incarcerate them. The Nazis had good reason to incarcerate the entire Anne Frank family in view of the close relationship they had with the Dutch underground which had actually built the famous hideaway. Shame on America for its sponsorship of terrorism which also led to Anne Frank's death.

During the American Civil War, the Union army lost more than twice as many men to disease alone as from wounds. Near the end of World War 1, the United States lost roughly half-a-million people to the Spanish influenza without even one enemy bomb having been dropped on the USA–and without any serious food shortages either; the death rate from war-related disease alone exceeded the death rate from wounds by a factor of ten. In September 2005, for example , the entire world witnessed the human disaster following Hurricane Katrina–not in defeated Germany, but in the richest country on the planet and in peacetime. New Orleans had become Bergen-Belsen on the Mississippi.

Many thousands of people die of diseases such as cancer in American hospitals every day; their undressed remains look no better than any of the dead at Bergen-Belsen. Just line up those near death and take off the pajamas and covers and open your eyes. Americans should bite their tongues regarding Nazi Germany and the German concentration camps.

They should look at themselves in the mirror instead. Shame on America!

http://www.nazigassings.com/

...............

hoo made up all the lies and faked so many photos?

hoo created the war and WHY?

hoo is right now creating the NEXT war?

hoo benefits from these lies and wars?

hoo gets GENTILES killed and GENOCIDED
by these wars?

hoo is in control of American government and
most others ?

hoo BRAGS about owning America and the Americans?

how much does it take to see TRUTH ?

hoo is progaming the world to believe Germany
and Germans are monsters ?

WHY?

how deep is your emotional attachment to HATE
all Germans and Germanys monster definition
as is force fed globally for sixty years?

want people to see the truth re 911?

open your own eyes so light can shine
on what you say to others.

~

mynameis

06-02-2009, 02:49 PM

$100,000.00

REWARD

Must be a joke:

Only legal residents of the United States are eligible to support THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE

It's obvious the issuer is a coward, a running fraud, and not a bright mind.

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2008/09/muehlenkamp-accepts-nafcashs-challenge_22.html

astrochicken

06-02-2009, 03:43 PM

Must be a joke:

It's obvious the issuer is a coward, a running fraud, and not a bright mind.

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2008/09/muehlenkamp-accepts-nafcashs-challenge_22.html

The "reward" it totally missing the point.

I'm a thought criminal

mynameis

06-02-2009, 05:32 PM

The "reward" it totally missing the point.

I'm a thought criminal

Funny you should say that when it seems that his offers for evidence from other holocaust sites have disappeared from the contest offered.

astrochicken

06-02-2009, 09:01 PM

Funny you should say that when it seems that his offers for evidence from other holocaust sites have disappeared from the contest offered.

sorry, i'm not getting the gist of what you're trying to say.

The truth coming out, a release of all politcal prisoners and a mass awakening over the planet and especially of 80 million germans realizing they've been shafted for the last 70 years is all the reward i personally would want to see.
The money could get stuck up someone's arse for all i care.

mynameis

06-02-2009, 09:27 PM

sorry, i'm not getting the gist of what you're trying to say.

The truth coming out, a release of all politcal prisoners and a mass awakening over the planet and especially of 80 million germans realizing they've been shafted for the last 70 years is all the reward i personally would want to see.
The money could get stuck up someone's arse for all i care.

In your dreams. The holocaust happened and is documented now by archaeological, physical, and historical evidence as that link shows and proven in court cases. Not to mention the admission by top officers in the Nuremberg trials and naxi writings.

dogsmilk

06-02-2009, 11:08 PM

Well don't forget the denizens of planet bozo try this lottery bullshit once in a while. There was that one that Mel Mermelstein won a court case over when they refused to pay up and that one John Ball quickly shut up about when his bluff was called. They try to make out they're serious 'historians' and then think they're somehow going to increase their credibillty with daft stunts.

accuracy

07-02-2009, 05:09 AM

Must be a joke:

It's obvious the issuer is a coward, a running fraud, and not a bright mind.

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2008/09/muehlenkamp-accepts-nafcashs-challenge_22.html

Aww, i take it that you're not an American, in order to claim you're money with proof? :D

accuracy

07-02-2009, 08:10 AM

Adolf Who?

By Christopher Beam
Posted Friday, Feb. 6, 2009

http://www.slate.com/id/2210632/

Ultraconservative Catholic bishop Richard Williamson apologized to the pope this week for his "imprudent remarks" concerning the Holocaust but did not recant. The bishop accepts that some Jews died in concentration camps but claims that fewer than 300,000 were killed, rather than 6 million, and he denies that the Nazis used gas chambers. To be a Holocaust denier, do you have to deny the whole thing?

No. There's no single definition of Holocaust denial or "revisionism," but scholars generally agree that it means claiming that the Nazis had no official policy to exterminate Jews, that the gas chambers are a myth, or that the figure of 6 million murdered Jews is a gross exaggeration. At the extreme, denial can mean hiding or suppressing evidence of the Holocaust by destroying gas chambers, as the Nazis did at the end of World War II, or by burning documents. But denial can also take the form of relativization—saying that, yes, the Nazis killed Jews, but the killings of Gypsies, Poles, and Jehovah's Witnesses were just as bad.

That said, there are plenty of aspects of the Holocaust that are still hotly debated by historians without charges of denial being tossed around. One is the exact number of Jews killed. Most historians agree it was somewhere between 5 million and 7 million. (Solid documentary evidence exists for about 5.3 million deaths.) But the numbers vary because of the circumstances under which some of the killings occurred. For example, no one knows precisely how many Jews were evacuated when the Soviet army retreated from the western regions of the USSR under German attack, or whether they were killed. Legitimate debate also continues over how widespread Jewish resistance was against the Nazis.

The closest thing to a codified definition of Holocaust denial is found in European law. Thirteen countries have laws banning Holocaust denial, including Austria, Germany, France, Israel, and Switzerland. (Other countries, like Canada, prohibit hate speech against any "identifiable group," including Jews, but don't refer specifically to the Holocaust.) Most of the laws are broad, like the Czech Republic's law punishing the "person who publicly denies, puts in doubt, approves or tries to justify Nazi or Communist genocide or other crimes of Nazis or Communists." In Israel, any published statement of "praise or sympathy for or identification with" the Nazis is a crime. Germany requires that the statement be part of a "public incitement." Those found guilty of Holocaust denial might get jail time—from six months to five years—or a hefty fine.

Anti-denial laws have resulted in some high-profile trials. In 2006, British historian David Irving was sentenced by an Austrian court to three years in prison for denying the existence of gas chambers in a 1989 speech. (He pleaded guilty and told the court he had changed his views.) In 2007, denier Ernst Zundel was convicted on 14 counts in Germany and sentenced to five years in jail. German neo-Nazi Horst Mahler was sentenced to prison in 2006 for denying the Holocaust. He gave a Sieg Heil upon arriving at the prison, for which he was put on a trial again in 2007. He also gave an interview to Vanity Fair in which he said "the systematic extermination of Jews in Auschwitz is a lie." The German interviewer brought charges.

Got a question about today's news? Ask the Explainer.

Explainer thanks Debórah Dwork of Clark University, Douglas Greenberg of Rutgers University, and Paul Shapiro of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum.

sophia_h

07-02-2009, 08:57 AM

`

Anti-denial laws

the very phrase is INSANE

brings to mind the actions of Charlemagnes armies
as they sliced and diced their way across Europe
doing the bidding of the POPE
slaughtering all FREE THINKERS

putting thousands to the SWORD POINT ( penis rulership)

with the edict to :

"ACCCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR LORD AND MASTER OR DIE !"

OR

" DENY JESUS CHRIST AND DIE !'

Thus it has been for 6,000 years
as one tool after another forces the masses
in every nation to accept rulership by TYRANNY

Deny what TYRANNY claims as truth

Deny ANY thinking not given as truth by the TYRANNY
and you wil be decimated, tortured, imprisoned, destroyed,
tyrannized, murdered

ANTI DENIAL LAWS WILL DESTROY ALL LOGICAL THINKING

creating

GLOBAL INSANITY

Denying truth eats away at the SOUL of the denier of truth.

labeling truth as an illegal thinking process is truly topsy turvy

an Orwellian crime

a mass mental torture

anti NATURE and thus destined to bring horrible results
across the globe.

MINDS have FREE WILL

a DIVINE LAW

puny scared man cannot control peoples MINDS
without creating horrors beyond description

I am not a DENIER

I am a supporter of TRUTH
Free investigation AND reporting on ANY issue
Recent or ancient.

.

dogsmilk

07-02-2009, 10:13 AM

I am a supporter of TRUTH
Free investigation AND reporting on ANY issue
Recent or ancient.

Surely some mistake - I thought you were into the Third Reich - don't you mean an iron control over what the media is allowed to say, 'degenerate' art being suppressed, people with 'incorrect' ideologies being put into concentration camps, books being burned, education overtly promoting state ideology etc etc etc?

ANTI DENIAL LAWS WILL DESTROY ALL LOGICAL THINKING

No great loss for you then.

dogsmilk

07-02-2009, 10:16 AM

person who publicly denies, puts in doubt, approves or tries to justify Nazi or Communist genocide or other crimes of Nazis or Communists.

What? You're saying denying what uncle Joe did is thoughtcrime?

Then I don't believe a word about what people say he did!

accuracy

08-02-2009, 09:01 AM

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accuracy

08-02-2009, 09:03 AM

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accuracy

08-02-2009, 09:06 AM

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accuracy

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accuracy

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accuracy

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accuracy

08-02-2009, 09:17 AM

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accuracy

08-02-2009, 09:19 AM

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accuracy

08-02-2009, 09:22 AM

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accuracy

08-02-2009, 09:35 AM

Holocaust lies!!................:D

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/image.php?u=2267&dateline=1233303771

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/image.php?u=2267&dateline=1233303771

dogsmilk

08-02-2009, 11:02 AM

Mr/Ms, ah, "accuracy" - when you have finished your pointless spamathon, I have an outstanding issue for you to address concerning your utter mindlessness here -
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52413&page=5
You may wish to peruse and address later comments on that thread also.

Please try to refrain from serially posting silly pictures of the kind of imbecilic wank you read to try to pretend you're weally wadical and stuff and try to actually think for yourself by addressing something put to you. Being able to think and argue for yourself is a vital part of growing up. Alternatively, you could perhaps just break out your crayons and spend the afternoon copying your pictures, I dunno.

I mean...Leuchter??????? Where is he now? Basically jettisoned and abandoned by the denier community when it was no longer possible to pretend he's anything other than a moron.

You'll notice your heroic denier chums left him to simply vanish into poverty and obscurity after his brief 15 minutes of minor fame addressing crank conventions. It really is rather a sad tale, dontcha think?

Thanks.

novymir

08-02-2009, 03:19 PM

FREE FULL-LENGTH BOOKS ONLINE:

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sophia_h

08-02-2009, 09:07 PM

`

This hardly seems as tho the Revisionist Community is shunning Leuchter.

1. “Wiesenthal Re-Confirms: 'No Extermination Camps on German Soil’

"(See "The Second Leuchter Report" by American gas chamber expert
Fred Leuchter in The Journal of Historical Review, Fall 1990.)
There is likewise no proof ..."

www.adolfhitlerresearchsociety.org/index2_files/Page1352.html

***********************

ALSO:

The Leuchter Report vindicated: A response to J.-C. Pressac's critique

by Paul Grubach

Historian and Revisionist

In early 1988, American execution hardware expert Fred A. Leuchter, Jr., carried out the first-ever forensic investigation of the alleged extermination gas chambers at Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek. His sensational conclusion -- that these structures were never used as gas chambers to kill people -- set off an international controversy that is still continuing. In a detailed report, commonly referred to simply as The Leuchter Report, the gas chamber specialist summed up the result of his investigation: (note 1)

After a study of the available literature, examination and evaluation of the existing facilities at Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek, with expert knowledge of the design criteria for gas chamber operation, an investigation of crematory technology and an inspection of modern crematories, the author finds no evidence that any of the facilities normally alleged to be execution gas chambers were ever used as such, and finds, further, that because of the design and fabrication of these facilities, they could not have been utilized for execution gas chambers.

Not surprisingly, indignant defenders of the orthodox Holocaust extermination story have tried frantically to discredit Leuchter and refute his findings. Undoubtedly the most ambitious effort to impeach The Leuchter Report on scientific and technical grounds consists of two articles by French pharmacist Jean-Claude Pressac in a book sponsored by "Nazi-hunter" Beate Klarsfeld, and grandiloquently titled Truth Prevails: Demolishing Holocaust Denial: The End of the Leuchter Report. (note 2) [A review of Truth Prevails, which deals with more generally with the book's non-scientific criticisms of Leuchter, is published elsewhere in this issue of the Journal. -- Editor.]

In Truth Prevails, Pressac is described as "one of the world's rare research specialists in gas chamber extermination technique. He is not a Jew and very nearly became a 'revisionist'." (p. 29) At the conclusion of his essay "The Deficiencies and Inconsistencies of 'The Leuchter Report'," Pressac pronounces stern judgment on The Leuchter Report:

… Leuchter is the victim of his own errors: layout errors, location errors, measurement errors, drawing errors, methodology errors and historical errors. Based on fake knowledge, inducing fake reasoning and leading to false interpretations, "The Leuchter Report" is inadmissible because it was produced in illegal conditions; because it overlooks the most basic historical data; because it is scuttled by gross errors of calculation, drawing and location; and because it is suspect of falsification. "The Leuchter Report" lands in the cesspool of pretentious human folly. (p. 55)

As this article will show, Pressac, by dismissing The Leuchter Report's scientific and technical method so intemperately, has cast a verbal boomerang that returns to strike its author.

I
When Leuchter took forensic samples of brick, mortar and sediment from the alleged extermination "gas chambers" in Auschwitz-Birkenau, as well as a control sample from a camp delousing facility, he wore protective gear. Pressac ridicules him for this:

To prevent his "precious" samples from being polluted during their removal, Leuchter and his assistant … had agreed to wear protective surgical gloves and masks. Since the analyses to be done on the samples were chemical and not bacteriological in nature, this was a perfectly ludicrous and totally useless precaution. (p. 62)

Pressac is ignorant of the real reason why Leuchter and company wore protective masks and gloves. Potassium cyanide, a highly poisonous solid, (note 3) is found in the walls of some of the facilities under study. (note 4) As Du Pont chemists have pointed out: "Wear an approved dust respirator when there is danger of inhaling cyanide dust … Wear protective gloves when handling solid cyanide." (note 5) Thus, Leuchter and his team showed good sense by wearing protective gear when extracting the samples.

Leuchter stored his samples in cool, damp, and sunlight free locations. But Pressac writes: "Since Leuchter placed the samples in transparent plastic bags, it is difficult to accept his 'sunlight free locations' claim." (p. 62) In fact, although Leuchter first placed the samples in transparent bags, he then transported them to America in closed, sunlight-free suitcases. (note 6) The gas chamber expert wrote: "We boarded the Polish airline plane after clearing customs -- my suitcase containing twenty pounds of forbidden samples, fortunately none of which was found." (note 7)

Leuchter is faulted for allegedly making misleading descriptions of the specimens. In Pressac's words:

Thirty-one samples … were identified by laboratory analysis … as coming from "brick" -- an inexact generalization. If two-thirds really are brick fragments, either pure or mixed with a bit of mortar, the rest are composed of lime mortar or sometimes of pure cement (as in the case of two or three samples). This abusive generalization leads one to have a major reservation about the very nature of the samples Leuchter took. Either Leuchter was mistaken in his assessment of the substratum, or the laboratory made an error. (p. 61)

In one part of his report, Leuchter wrote: "… forensic samples of brick, mortar, concrete and sediment were selectively taken from sites in Poland." (note 8) In a letter to Alpha Analytical Laboratories (Ashland, Massachusetts), the laboratory which analyzed the samples, Leuchter wrote: "Samples No. 1 through No. 11; Samples No. 13 through No. 32. Brick, mortar and sediment. Cyanate content." (note 9) Clearly, he did not use the "inexact generalization" of "brick" to characterize the samples. (note 10)

II
Pressac realizes the importance of the samples taken from the "gas chambers" and the delousing facility. Thus, discrediting Leuchter's method of taking samples and his conclusions regarding their chemical content is really the major purpose of Pressac's two essays in Truth Prevails. He writes:

Since Leuchter's samples were obtained illegally, I will only concur with their cyanide concentration on the express condition that they be verified by official expert chemical evaluation. Admitting their validity with reservations, certain results which may have been surprising at first glance can be logically explained. (p. 40)

A subsequent "expert official chemical evaluation" has in fact strongly corroborated Leuchter's findings. In response to Revisionist claims that Zyklon B was not used at Auschwitz-Birkenau to commit mass murder, the Auschwitz State Museum asked Poland's Institute of Forensic Research (in Krakow) to carry out a scientific investigation of the matter. Its expert report results buttress those of Leuchter: The institute's team found significant potassium cyanide residue in delousing facility samples, while next to none in alleged "gas chamber" samples. (note 11) (As will be discussed below, the Polish institute's conclusion regarding the significance of this finding differs from Leuchter's.)

Throughout both his essays, Pressac strongly implies that Leuchter consciously falsified his findings in order to disprove the existence of the gas chambers. As a case in point -- concerning sample 2 from Crematorium II -- Pressac insinuates that Leuchter planted a brick with no cyanide residue in the "gas chamber" area in order to "prove" his case. (p.65)

At the 1989 conference of the Institute of Historical Review, Leuchter publicly challenged the international scientific community to investigate his findings -- hardly the behavior of a man who is guilty of falsifying his results. (note 12) A team of scientists could easily expose deliberate deceptions, as well as methodological errors, by Leuchter. All they would have to do is retrace his path, take more samples from the same facilities, and subject them to chemical analysis.

Leuchter's 1988 investigation of the concentration camps, including his inspection and sample taking, was recorded on videotape. A videotape cassette of his visit, which shows Leuchter taking some of his specimens, is available to the public. (note 13) Pressac claims throughout his second essay that this video is a "witness to a fraud." (pp. 61-73) He writes, for example: "Manipulation, substitution and trick photography are certainly confirmed in the case of sample No. 6." (p. 68) With reference to the extraction of this sample, he writes at another point: "The deception seems clearly obvious." (p. 67)

Pressac writes further:

Out of seven samples obtained from the Crematorium II gas chamber ruins, not a single one was shown upon analysis to contain cyanide. This amazing result is contrary to everything known about the building's history. Faurisson wanted this gas chamber to yield a perfect (for him) result across the board -- that is to say, uniformly negative. Playing his cards close to his vest, he succeeded all too well. The results are too consistent, too perfect. (p. 68)

Whatever defects there may be in the videotape record of Leuchter's investigation, it seems unlikely that they are the result of conscious fraud (let alone a plot orchestrated by his arch-enemy Robert Faurisson). Any possible defects there may be are more likely to have been occasioned by inexperience and the circumstances in which the gathering of evidence and the videotaping was conducted. As British historian David Irving has written:

I myself would, admittedly, have preferred to see more rigorous methods used in identifying and certifying the samples taken for analysis, but I accept without reservation the difficulties that the examining team faced on location in what is now Poland: chiselling out the samples from the hallowed site under the very noses of the new camp guards. The video tapes made simultaneously by the team -- which I have studied -- provide compelling visual evidence of the scrupulous methods that they used. (note 14)

Furthermore, as already mentioned, Poland's Institute of Forensic Research (Krakow) has provided independent corroboration of Leuchter's findings. The Institute's investigation team found no cyanide residue in the "gas chamber" samples they took, except for one taken from the Crematorium II ruins. It measures 6 micrograms per 100 grams of material. This is equal to .06 milligrams of cyanide per kilogram of material (mg/kg). (note 15)

This is less than the minimum amount that could be detected by the measuring instrument of the Alpha laboratory. The minimum trace level of cyanide that could be detected by Alpha was one mg/kg. (note 16) Anything below this amount was rightly considered inconsequential. Thus, Leuchter's findings are consistent with those of Poland's Institute of Forensic Research: there was no significant cyanide residue in material taken from Crematorium II's "gas chamber."

III
Pressac asks:

What decisive point of the [Leuchter] report leads the deniers [Holocaust Revisionists] to think they have "won" [the debate about the existence of extermination "gas chambers"]? They compared the quantity of cyanide residue in the Birkenau BW 5a delousing building gas chamber (sample No. 32) yielding 1,050 mg/kg … and those varying from 0 to 7.9 mg/kg in samples from the Auschwitz-Birkenau homicidal gas chambers. The result triggers the following line of questioning. How can it be believed that the areas supposedly used to asphyxiate thousands daily by means of hydrocyanic acid over the course of a year or two retain only minute traces of cyanide while other places, used for delousing with the same gas over the same time period, yield traces one hundred and fifty to a thousand times greater? (p. 35)

As Pressac indicates, Leuchter did indeed conclude:

One would have expected higher cyanide detection in the samples taken from the alleged gas chambers (because of the greater amount of gas allegedly utilized there) than that found in the control sample. Since the contrary is true, one must conclude that these facilities were not execution gas chambers, when coupled with all the other evidence gained on inspection. (note 17)

In an effort to discredit this conclusion, three explanations have been offered in response:

Explanation 1. After 45 years, virtually all of the cyanide residue in the alleged extermination gas chambers has "weathered away." Poland's Institute of Forensic Research, for example, expressed the view that

… one can hardly assume that traces of cyanic compounds could still be detected in construction materials (plaster, brick) after 45 years, after being subjected to the weather and the elements (rain, acid oxides, especially sulfuric oxides). More reliable would be the analysis of wall plaster [samples] from closed rooms which were not subject to weather and the elements (including acid rain). (note 18)

Writing in Truth Prevails, Pressac expresses a similar opinion: "As a general rule, the more a sample's locale was exposed to the elements, the lower -- indeed, nil -- the cyanide content." He also wrote: "The ruins of Crematorium II and III and the restored walls of IV and V have been exposed to the elements for over forty years. It's practically a miracle that any measurable hydrocyanic compound traces still remain." (pp. 71, 44)

However, in his 1989 book, Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers, Pressac says something rather different. In this detailed work, he published a picture of the outside wall of a delousing chamber. Referring to this structure, he wrote: "… from ground level to just below the chimney, bluish stains can be seen on the bricks of the wall, showing that hydrocyanic acid was used there (in 1942-1944), for delousing purposes." (note 19) He thus confirms that even though this wall has been exposed to the elements since the Second World War, a significant amount of Prussian blue is nevertheless still visible. Pressac himself thus discredits the claim that all or even most of the Prussian blue (ferric ferrocyanide) would have "weathered away."

If Pressac's view on this is correct, the outside wall of this delousing facility obviously would have a lower Prussian blue content than the inside walls of the "gas chamber" of Krema I. In fact, though, visible Prussian blue stains can be seen on the outside wall of the delousing facility, which has been exposed to the elements since the Second World War. By contrast, there are only invisible and barely detectable amounts of Prussian blue in samples taken from the inside wall of the supposed homicidal "gas chamber" of Krema I, which is inside an intact structure and has thus been protected from the elements since the Second World War. (note 20) As Pressac himself notes: "Its [Krema I] morgue/ gas chamber inside walls have never been exposed to sun, rain, or snow (factors which contribute to cyanide content diminishing) as the other crematoriums were and are." (p. 44)

Referring to the absence of cyanide/Prussian blue traces in the samples taken from Birkenau's Krema II, Pressac writes in Truth Prevails: "Cyanide's solubility in rain water and the water layer accumulated underground from infiltrating rain accounts for its absence from the samples." (p. 41)

This view is simply not correct. Dr. James Roth, the chemistry expert who analyzed euchter's samples, pointed out that Prussian blue cannot be washed out of brick, mortar or cement by water. The ferric ferrocyanide compounds produced by the interaction of hydrogen cyanide with the iron elements in brick (and such) are very stable, and remain in such substances for a very long time. As Roth testified under oath, the compounds can be removed only by sandblasting or the application of strong acid. (note 21) Nobel Prize-winning chemist Linus Pauling similarly confirms that Prussian blue is insoluble in water. (note 22) Finally, the authoritative Handbook of Chemistry and Physics notes that ferric ferrocyanide -- or iron (III) ferrocyanide -- is insoluble in hot or cold water. (note 23)

It should be stressed here that whereas the Institute of Forensic Research (Krakow) measured the amount of potassium cyanide, (note 24) Leuchter was mainly concerned with Prussian blue (or ferric ferrocyanide). (note 25) As previously noted, while Potassium cyanide is indeed water soluble, (note 26) ferric ferrocyanide is not. Prussian blue is a very stable compound that simply could not have been washed away by rain.

Explanation 2. Pressac suggests that when camp officials dynamited crematory buildings (Kremas) II, III and V, this contributed to the removal of cyanide residue. (pp. 40, 42, 43) This explanation will also not hold up. While it is true that dynamiting breaks up the bricks of a structure, it does not remove chemical stains on or within such bricks. Nor, for the most part, would it abrade Prussian blue on their surfaces. Pressac himself points out that a support pillar in Krema II's "gas chamber" withstood the effects of explosion. (p. 65) Any Prussian blue on the surface of or within the pillar's pores would have remained.

Explanation 3. This is Pressac's principal explanation. Even though the delousing facility was exposed to a lesser amount of HCN than the "gas chambers," the walls of the delousing facility were impregnated with warm HCN for at least twelve hours a day. He writes:

This cyanide saturation of 12 to 18 hours a day was strengthened by the heat the stoves in the room emitted, providing a temperature of 30 degrees Celsius [86 degrees Fahrenheit]. The walls were impregnated with hot HCN for at least 12 hours a day, which would induce the formation of a stain: Prussian blue, or potassioferric ferrocyanide [sic] … (p. 37). (note 27)

As for the "gas chambers," Pressac alleges the HCN was in physical contact with their walls "for no more than ten minutes a day," at a temperature of about 30 degrees Celsius (86 degrees Fahrenheit). Without additional heat, the brief contact of high concentrations of HCN with the walls of the homicidal installations was not able to induce the reaction which led to the formation of significant amounts of cyanide residue. Hence, the amount of ferric ferrocyanide in the "gas chamber" samples is nil or nonexistent. (pp. 36-38)

If Pressac had made an objective study of the chemistry of hydrogen cyanide and Prussian blue, he would have learned how inaccurate this theory is.

The walls of the alleged gas chambers contain a large amount of iron. (note 28) And, as Dr. James Roth pointed out: "If iron is present with hydrogen cyanide around, then you are going to get a reaction between the hydrogen cyanide and iron." (note 29) Hydrogen cyanide dissolves very readily in water, becoming hydrocyanic acid. (note 30) As Pressac and Leuchter have both noted, the alleged gas chambers were very damp. (note 31) Enough moisture would have been on the walls, floors and ceilings to dissolve at least some of the HCN supposed to have been used during an alleged gassing.

In the presence of water, iron in the walls and cyanide from the hydrogen cyanide would readily combine to form an iron cyanide complex. Aqueous solutions of hydrogen cyanide are weak acids.32 As Dr. Pauling notes: "Iron is an active metal, which displaces hydrogen easily from dilute acids."33 Consequently, the iron from the walls would easily have displaced the hydrogen (H+) in the hydrocyanic acid, bonded with the cyanide (CN-], and formed an iron-cyanide complex, ferrocyanide ion [Fe(CN6)]4-. (note 34) This is what Dr. Pauling meant when he wrote that cyanide ion [CN-] added to a solution of ferrous ion [iron (II) ion] forms precipitates which dissolve in excess cyanide to produce complex ions. (note 35)

Finally, according to Dr. Pauling, the pigment Prussian blue is made by the addition of ferric [iron (III)] ion to a ferrocyanide solution.36 According to chemist James Brady: "The deep color Prussian blue is formed when a drop of dilute solution containing Fe3+ [iron (III) ion] is added to a dilute solution containing ferrocyanide ion, Fe(CN)64-. After a few moments, the blue precipitate, Fe4[Fe(CN)6]3 . 16H20, settles to the bottom of the test tube." (note 37) In plain language, the iron-cyanide complex, ferrocyanide, combines with more iron to form ferric ferrocyanide (or Prussian blue).

What this whole reaction mechanism shows is that even if the HCN were in contact with the "gas chamber" walls for less than ten minutes every day or two for two years, significant quantities of Prussian blue still would have formed. (By a "significant amount" is meant an amount slightly less or equal to that found in the delousing facility samples.) At least some of the HCN, upon contact with the diffuse wetness, would have dissolved immediately. (note 38) This dissolved HCN, upon contact with the iron, would have formed some ferrocyanide immediately. (note 39) The ferrocyanide, upon contact with more iron, would have formed some Prussian blue almost immediately. (note 40)

But just as important, the application of heat to the walls and gas is not at all necessary to form significant amounts of Prussian blue. Relevant to this issue is the informative verbal exchange between attorney Douglas Christie and Dr. James Roth during the 1988 trial in Toronto of Ernst Zündel. Referring to the reaction between hydrogen cyanide and the iron in the walls of the alleged gas chambers, Christie asked Roth: "And could you explain any way by which this would not happen or no such reaction would occur?" The chemist replied:

ROTH: Well, one is the lack of water. These reactions to -- in a lot of cases have to take place in water or with some vapor around. Now, chances are great [that with] normal temperatures and rooms of normal humidity, there would be plenty of moisture present for this type of reaction to take place.

CHRISTIE: So in a normal room with normal humidity these quantities of iron in the wall, hydrogen cyanide in quantities of 300 parts per million [.36 g/m3] or more, on a daily basis for two years or even two weeks, you would expect to see the formation of Prussian blue. Is that correct?

ROTH: I would expect to see detectable amounts of Prussian blue. [If not visibly detectable, at least chemically detectable.] That type of reaction is an accumulative reaction. In other words, as it reacts it doesn't go away. It stays … (note 41)

Pressac's theory that without additional heat the brief contact of high concentrations of HCN with the walls of the gas chambers was not sufficient to form significant amounts of Prussian blue is therefore false. (note 42) The whole ensemble of physical and chemical conditions would have ensured that significant amounts of Prussian blue residue would have been detectable in euchter's samples if they had been exposed to the amount of gas Pressac claims.

IV
The boiling point of hydrogen cyanide (HCN) is 26 degrees Celsius (or 78 degrees Fahrenheit). (note 43) That is, HCN vaporizes, or changes from liquid to gas, at this temperature. If the temperature is below 78 degrees F, there will thus be condensation: Much of HCN will change from gas to liquid. In addition to being cool year round, the Auschwitz I and II (Birkenau) "gas chambers" were supposedly operated during the cold weather months of fall, winter and spring. (note 44) They were allegedly ventilated "naturally" or "mechanically." (p. 72) (note 45) In either case, air from the outside environment would have been used to expel poison gas from the chamber. During the fall, winter and spring months, this outside ventilation air would have been considerably cooler than 78 degrees F. In addition, as Pressac admits and Leuchter confirms, the "gas chambers" had no internal heating devices to prevent condensation. (note 46) The temperature of the walls, floors and ceilings for much of the year would have been well below 78 degrees F.

During an alleged gassing operation, much of the poisonous HCN gas therefore would have promptly condensed to liquid upon contact with the frigid walls, floors and ceilings, or upon contact with cold air during ventilation. Because HCN gas naturally adheres to surfaces, it can be ventilated only with difficulty and after considerable time. (note 47) Thus, even if an alleged "gassing" lasted no more than twenty minutes, a considerable amount of condensed, liquid HCN would have remained on the walls, floors and ceilings after ventilation. The cold air allegedly used to ventilate the poison gas would simply have ensured that much of the HCN would have changed to liquid and remained on the inside surfaces of the "gas chambers."

In this vein, Leuchter has noted:

… if the temperature [of the gas chamber] is not above 78 to 79 degrees, we get condensation of the gas on the walls, the floor and the ceiling. When the hydrogen cyanide condenses into a liquid it will be absorbed by the brick and by the mortar … (note 48)

As Dr. Pauling has noted, "Hydrogen cyanide … is a gas which dissolves in water and acts as a very weak acid." (note 49) In this regard, it is worth pointing out that the Auschwitz-Birkenau "gas chambers" were always damp. (note 50) Therefore, even during the warm weather months, when the ambient temperature in the "gas chambers" may have been above 78 degrees F, some gaseous HCN would have readily dissolved the moment it came in contact with the natural moisture on the floor, walls and ceiling. In this way, the constant dampness or moisture in the "gas chambers" would ensure that HCN would be held in solution even during the warm weather months. (note 51) This HCN -- dissolved in the moisture or condensed back to liquid -- thus would have remained in the "gas chambers" even after ventilation, and would have reacted with the iron in the bricks to form Prussian blue.

According to chemists of the German Degesch company (which manufactured Zyklon), exposed porous surfaces of an authentic (delousing) gas chamber must be coated with a sealant to make the facility impervious to HCN impregnation. (note 52) Leuchter found that none of the alleged extermination "gas chambers" in Auschwitz was coated with any sealant. (note 53) If these facilities had actually been used as extermination gas chambers, their walls, floors and ceilings would have absorbed significant quantities of HCN.

Critical to Pressac's thesis is this claim:

In a homicidal gas chamber, the action of highly concentrated HCN was rapid and intense (never more than 15 to 20 minutes), at a temperature below 27 degrees C. [80.6 degrees F], then the room was aired or artificially ventilated to get rid of the gas as quickly as possible … The acid had time to attack the metallic parts superficially, forming cyanide, but did not have enough time to impregnate and stain the brick. Conversely, the operation of a delousing gas chamber used much lower concentrations of HCN, but as a general rule and according to witnesses, the gas remained for a very much longer time, from 16 to 18 hours, and a higher temperature was maintained by heating the chamber by stoves … (note 54)

This is not accurate. As we have already established, if the structures in question had actually been used as homicidal "gas chambers," the walls, floors and ceilings would have absorbed significant quantities of HCN. The physical and chemical conditions in the alleged "gas chambers" were such that a significant amount of HCN would have remained after a "gassing," impregnating the brick and forming significant quantities of Prussian blue.

Let us summarize Pressac's thesis with two quotations. In the 1990 work, Truth Prevails, he wrote:

Without heat induction of long continuance, the cyanide doses [in the "gas chambers"], as high as they were, were not in contact with the walls of the homicidal installations long enough to provoke the reaction [forming Prussian blue] to an appreciable -- that is to say visible -- degree. (p. 38)

And in his 1989 work, Auschwitz, Pressac wrote:

The "blue wall" phenomenon makes it possible now to distinguish visually, empirically, but with absolute certainty, between delousing gas chambers, where the phenomenon is present, and homicidal gas chambers, where it is not. Without additional heat, the too brief contact of nevertheless high concentrations of hydrocyanic acid with the walls of the homicidal installations was not able to provoke the development of the reaction appreciable enough to be visible. (note 55)

To sum up here: as a consequence of all these factors, HCN would have been in contact with the walls of the "gas chambers" for much more than just ten or twenty minutes a day, and significant amounts of HCN would have remained after gassing and subsequent ventilation. Therefore -- and contrary to what Pressac claims -- significant amounts of Prussian blue would have been produced.

Leuchter's comparison of samples taken from the "gas chamber" with samples taken from the control/delousing facility samples is entirely valid. If the alleged extermination "gas chambers" had actually been used to kill people as alleged, ferric ferrocyanide would have been found in them in amounts comparable to those found in the delousing facility. As the American gas chamber expert has noted, the point is not that the cyanide traces at the alleged gassing sites are "somewhat less" but that they are

negligible or nil. The samples from the alleged gas chamber areas, most of them had totally no traces at all. The few that did have traces were barely above detection level. So, we're not talking about a situation that there was more or less. We're talking about nothing and something, and in the area where there was something [the delousing facility], we had a very high content. We had a thousand and fifty milligrams per kilogram, and the highest that we detected in any of the other areas [the alleged gas chambers] was seven milligrams per kilogram. (note 56)

V
more:

http://www.historiography-project.com/jhrchives/v12/v12p445_Grubach.html

.

dogsmilk

08-02-2009, 11:37 PM

Hello my little flower.

Unfortunately, Mr Leuchter represents yet another embarrassing failure for denial which, though admittedly still recycled now and then, has in reality as much contemporary relevance as the Sinclair C5 or Atari Jaguar.

Fred Leuchter in The Journal of Historical Review, Fall 1990

The other article apparently carries no date, but a quick scan of the footnotes seems to indicate none later than 1991.

One wonders if the Tardis is malfunctioning and needs The Doctor to reverse the polarity of the neutron flow or if you should simply stop taking the little green pills at medication time, but it may surprise you to learn that where I am it's 2009. Just out of interest, what day do you think it is?
These articles are old too, but these days there are hitherto undiscovered Amazonian tribes who don't buy that crap about Prussian blue.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/blue/
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/not-the-science/

You might also wish to peruse Van Pelt's and Green's affidavits they wrote for Irving's appeal at the Lipstadt trial as a response to Germar Rudolf's 'expert' report as they are also relevant. They're on HHP somewhere - just check your indexes or something. They were never actually used as Irving decided not to use Rudolf's work. Word on the street was it was because Irving knew it would simply make him look like even more of a clown. Indeed, I recall reading on Irving's website he had to get Rudolf to do it twice because the first attempt was so shoddy. See - a lot's happened since '91!

Just out of interest, since you're citing the journal of mendacious bullshit, what's your opinion on Mark Weber sacking off denial as a lost cause?

I see you have started yet another copy and paste thread, yet I am still waiting for a response here -
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51107&page=4
I realise National Socialism was heavily reliant on propaganda and using the controlled media to bombard the public with ideological messages, but this is a discussion forum. It is poor form to ignore people and then start new spam threads on the same topic. It's not big, it's not clever and you're not impressing anyone.

Oh -

Wiesenthal Re-Confirms: 'No Extermination Camps on German Soil

Remind me - what country were the extermination camps actually in?

Have a think...

And then reflect on how you declare you know the Holocaust never happened...while apparently unaware of where the extermination camps actually were...

novymir

08-02-2009, 11:46 PM

mynameis

08-02-2009, 11:49 PM

dogsmilk wrote:
"Remind me - what country were the extermination camps actually in?

Have a think...

And then reflect on how you declare you know the Holocaust never happened...while apparently unaware of where the extermination camps actually were...
----------------------------------------------

Oh, yeah, the ALLEGED "extermination" camps were ALL in SOVIET TERRITORY at the end of the war.
Nevermind about the crying wolf about a "Holocaust" and 6million "jews" being exterminated at the end of the 1st WW too... that one was a little ahead of it's time I guess, a practice run maybe?

You're a robot. And pathetic.[/QUOTE]

1933

January 30 Adolf Hitler is appointed chancellor of Germany.
February 28 The German government takes away freedom of speech, assembly, press, and freedom from invasion of privacy and from house search without warrant.
March 4 Franklin D. Roosevelt is inaugurated President of the United States.
March 20 The first concentration camp is established in Nazi Germany at Dachau. The first prisoners are political opponents.
April 1 A nationwide boycott of Jewish-owned businesses in Germany is carried out under Nazi leadership.
April 7 Jews are barred from government service; Jewish civil servants, including University professors and school teachers, are fired from their positions.
April 25 The law against "overcrowding in German schools and universities" is adopted, restricting the number of Jewish children allowed to attend. Children of war veterans and those with one non-Jewish parent are initially exempted.
May 10 Books by Jews and opponents of Nazism are burned publicly.
July 14 Laws are passed in Germany that permit the forced sterilization of Gypsies, the mentally and physically disabled, African-Germans, and others considered "inferior" or "unfit."
October 19 Germany withdraws from the League of Nations.
1933-1935 In all German schools it is officially taught that "non-Aryans" are racially inferior. Jewish children are prohibited from participating in "Aryan" sports clubs, school orchestras, and other extracurricular activities. Jewish children are banned from playgrounds, swimming pools, and parks in many German cities and towns.

1934

August 3 Adolph Hitler declares himself president and chancellor of the Third Reich after the death of Paul von Hindenburg.
October First major wave of arrests of homosexuals occurs throughout Germany, continuing into November.

1935

January 13 The Saar region is annexed by Germany.
March 16 Hitler violates the Versailles Treaty by renewing the compulsory military draft.
April Jehovah's Witnesses are banned from all civil service jobs and are arrested throughout Germany.
May "No Jews" signs and notices are posted outside German towns and villages, and outside shops and restaurants.
May 21 Jews are prohibited from serving in the German armed forces.
September 15 The Nuremberg Laws deprive German Jews of their citizenship.

1936

March 3 Jewish doctors are no longer permitted to practice in government institutions in Germany.
March 7 Hitler's army invades the Rhineland.
July 12 The first German Gypsies are arrested and deported to Dachau concentration camp.
August 1-16 The Olympic Games take place in Berlin. Anti-Jewish signs (i.e., "Jews Not Welcome") are removed until the Games are completed.
October 15 The Ministry of Science and Education prohibits teaching by "non-Aryans" in public schools and bans private instruction by Jewish teachers.

1937

July 2 Further restrictions are imposed on the number of Jewish students attending German schools.
July 16 Buchenwald concentration camp opens. (near Munich)
November 16 Jews can obtain passports for travel outside of Germany only in special cases.

1938

March 13 Germany annexes Austria.
May 13 The German government passes a decree requiring the registration of all Gypsies without a fixed address living in Austria; by June 1938, all Gypsy children above the age of 14 have to be fingerprinted. This is a central part of the growing racial definition of Gypsies as "criminally asocial."
July 6-15 Representatives from thirty-two countries meet at Evian, France, to discuss refugee policies. Most of the countries refuse to let in more Jewish refugees.
July 23 The German government announces Jews must carry identification cards.
November 7 An attempt is made by Herschel Grynzpan to assassinate a German diplomat in Paris.
November 9-10 Kristallnacht ("Night of Broken Glass"): Nazi organized nation-wide pogroms result in the burning of hundreds of synagogues; the looting and destruction of many Jewish homes, schools, and community offices; vandalism; and the looting of 7,500 Jewish stores. Many Jews are beaten, and more than 90 are killed. Thirty-thousand Jewish men are arrested and imprisoned in concentration camps. Several thousand Jewish women are arrested and sent to local jails. This is followed by a punitive fine to be paid by the Jewish community for the damages done to their businesses and the accelerated "Aryanization" of Jewish businesses.
November 12 German Jews are ordered to pay one billion Reichsmarks in reparations for damages of Kristallinacht.
November 15 All Jewish children are expelled from German schools and can attend only separate Jewish schools.
December 2-3 Decrees ban Jews from public streets on certain days; Jews are forbidden drivers' licenses and car registrations.
December 3 Jews must sell their businesses and real estate and hand over their securities and jewelry to the government at artificially low prices.
December 8 Jews may no longer attend universities as teachers and/or students.

1939

March 15 Germany invades and occupies Czechoslovakia.
June Cuba and the United States refuse to accept Jewish refugees aboard the ship S.S. St. Louis, which is forced to return to Europe.
June 5 Two-thousand Gypsy males above the age of 16 are arrested in Burgenland Province (formerly Austria) and sent to Dachau and Buchenwald concentration camps; 1,000 Gypsy girls and women above the age of 15 are arrested and sent to the Ravensbruck concentration camp.
August 23 Soviet-German Non-aggression Pact signed.
September 1 The German army invades Poland and World War II begins.
September 23 Jews are forced to turn in radios, cameras, and other electric objects to the police. Jews receive more restrictive ration coupons than other Germans. They do not receive coupons for meat, milk, etc. Jews also receive fewer and more limited clothing ration cards than do Germans.
October Hitler extends powers to doctors to kill institutionalized mentally and physically disabled persons in the "euthanasia" program.
November 23 Germans force Jews in Poland to wear a yellow Star of David on their chests or a blue-and-white Star of David armband.
November 28 The first Polish ghetto is established.

1940

Spring The German army invades and defeats Denmark, Norway, Belgium, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, and France.
May 1-7 Approximately 164,000 Polish Jews are concentrated and imprisoned in the Lódz ghetto which is established and sealed off from the outside world.
May 20 A concentration camp is established at Auschwitz, Poland.
October 3 Anti-Jewish laws are passed by France's Vichy Government.
October The Warsaw ghetto is established.
November 15 The Warsaw ghetto is closed off with approximately 500,000 inhabitants.
November 20 Hungary, Romania, and Slovakia join the Axis Powers.

1941

March 22 Gypsy and African-German children are expelled from public schools.
March 24 The German army invades North Africa.
April 6 The German army invades Yugoslavia and Greece.
May 15 Romania passes law condemning adult Jews to forced labor.
June The French Vichy government revokes civil rights of French Jews in North Africa.
June 22 The German army invades the Soviet Union. The Einsatzgruppen, mobile killing squads, begin the mass murders of Jews, Gypsies, and Communist leaders.
September 1 German Jews above the age of six are forced to wear a yellow Star of David sewed on the left side of their clothes with the word "Jude" printed in black.
September 23 Soviet prisoners of war and Polish prisoners are killed in Nazi test of gas chambers at Auschwitz in occupied Poland.
September 28-29 Nearly 34,000 Jews are murdered by mobile killing squads at Babi Yar, near Kiev in the Ukraine.
October Construction begins on Birkenau, an addition to the Auschwitz camp. Birkenau includes a killing center which begins operations in early 1942.
October-November First group of German and Austrian Jews are deported to ghettos in eastern Europe.
November 5-9 Five thousand Gypsies are deported from labor and internment camps in Austria to the Lódz ghetto in Poland.
December 7 Japan attacks Pearl Harbor.
December 8 The Chelmno death camp opens near Lódz, Poland and the first gassing of victims in mobile gas vans occurs.
December 11 Germany declares war on the United States.
December-January Five thousand Austrian Gypsies from the Lódz ghetto are deported to the killing center at Chelmno where they are all killed in mobile gas vans.

1942

1942 Nazi "extermination" camps located in occupied Poland at Auschwitz, Birkenau, Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec, and Majdanek-Lublin begins mass murder of Jews in gas chambers.
January 16 Jews in the Lódz ghetto are deported to the killing center at Chelmno.
January 20 Fifteen Nazi and government leaders meet at Wannsee, a section of Berlin, to discuss the "final solution to the Jewish question".
May 4-12 Approximately ten thousand Jews, who had arrived in the Lódz ghetto some six months earlier from Germany, Luxembourg, Vienna, and Prague, are deported to Chelmno. Their baggage is confiscated before they board the train.
June The German government closes all Jewish schools.
June 1 Treblinka death camp opens.
June 1 Jews in France and the Netherlands are required to wear identifying Stars of David.
July 28 Jewish fighting organizations established in the Warsaw ghetto.
September 5-12 Approximately fifteen thousand Jews in the Lódz ghetto are deported to Chelmno, mostly children under ten and individuals over sixty-five, but also others who are too weak or ill to work. By September 16, approximately fifty-five thousand Jews have been deported to the killing center at Chelmno.
October 4 All Jews in concentration camps in Germany are sent to death camp at Auschwitz.
December 1 A special internment camp for non-Jewish Polish youth is opened in Lódz.

1943

April 19-May, 16 Jews in the Warsaw ghetto initiate resistance to deportation by the Germans to the death camps.
March All Gypsies in Germany and Nazi occupied countries, with few exceptions, are arrested and deported to Auschwitz-Birkenau.
June The Nazis order all of the ghettos in Poland and the Soviet Union destroyed.
August 2 The inmates at Treblinka rebel.
Fall The Danish citizens smuggle most of the nation's Jews to neutral Sweden.
October 14 The inmates at Sobibor initiate an armed rebellion.

1944

January The War Refugee Board is established by President Franklin Roosevelt.
March The German army invades Hungary.
May 15 The Nazis begin deportation of Hungarian Jews. Over 430,000 Jews are sent to Auschwitz-Birkenau where most are gassed.
June 6 The Allied Powers invade Normandy.
July 20 German officers fail and are caught in an attempt to assassinate Hitler.
June 23-July 14 Seven thousand one hundred ninety-six Jews are deported from the Lódz ghetto to Chelmno where they are killed.
July 24 The Soviet Army liberates the Majdanek death camp.
October 7 The prisoners at Auschwitz-Birkenau rebel and blow up one crematorium.

1945

January 17 Nazis empty Auschwitz and start prisoners on "death marches" to Germany.
January 27 The Soviet army liberates Auschwitz.
April Troops from the United States liberate survivors from the Buchenwald and Dachau concentration camps.
April 30 :)Adolph Hitler commits suicide in his bunker in Berlin rather than be caught by the advancing Soviet army.
May 5 Troops from the United States liberate Mauthausen concentration camp.
May 7 :)Germany surrenders and war in Europe is ended.
November The war crimes tribunal is convened at Nuremberg, Germany.

dogsmilk

09-02-2009, 12:01 AM

Whoops! Nearly forgot -

by Paul Grubach

Historian and Revisionist

From the IHR -

Paul Grubach

Paul Grubach holds an Associate Arts degree in liberal arts, and a Bachelor of Science degree in physics, with a concentration in chemistry and minor in history, from John Carroll University (Ohio). He received a scholarship for his work in chemistry, and is a member of the Phi Alpha Theta history honor society.

http://www.ihr.org/other/authorbios.html

That's right kids! If you do a minor in history for your degree...you're a historian!

Why am I not surprised you opt for an article that bends the truth before its even started...

novymir

09-02-2009, 12:02 AM

mynameis

09-02-2009, 12:06 AM

mynameis posts some more laughable drivel.

Oh, IT'S THE OFFICIAL TRUTH, IT IS AUTHORATIVE,

YOU MUST *BELIEVE* IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gET A LIFE, QUIT WORRYING ABOUT MAINTAINING "THE HOAX OF THE 20TH CENTURY".
Qui-Bono????????????????????
The ONLY way it happened is if some 4th dimensional beings have f-cked with time and "evidence" to scapgoat the "jews" in the NOW.
And I believe that is a definite possibility, but,,,,,, I don't know it, therefore I accept the concept of DENYING that which is CLAIMED without genuine compelling EVIDENCE. A purely logical conclusion.

I've gotten sucked into this red-herring/BS topic long enough--------------bye-bye.

That's right you can't disprove the drivel wrong so you take your strawman tail and run with it between your legs. Later....

Buchenwald concentration camp (German: Konzentrationslager or 'KZ' Buchenwald) was a Nazi concentration camp established on the Ettersberg (Etter Mountain) near Weimar, Thuringia, Germany (at the time, Nazi Germany), in July 1937, and one of the largest such camps on German soil.

I think there's quite a few in Germany.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4b/Majorcampseurope.gif

The Double White-Squares are extermination camps.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Massdeportations.PNG/766px-Massdeportations.PNG

Routes to the camps would indicate the centralized area within occupied territory where the exterminations would be made regarding the enemies and fighting.

novymir

09-02-2009, 12:07 AM

That's right you can't disprove the drivel wrong so you take your strawman tail and run with it between your legs. Later....

Whatever you say, ROBOT.

dogsmilk

09-02-2009, 12:09 AM

dogsmilk

09-02-2009, 12:13 AM

I think there's quite a few in Germany.

There were tons of concentration camps, but not extermination camps.

novymir

09-02-2009, 12:16 AM

----------------------------------------------

Well, you can have a point I suppose since Poland did become Soviet turf.

And of course I find a single article from 1919, that is constantly repeated on that net and that mentions 6 million Jews being "threatened" totally convincing as some kind of 'forward plan'. If only actual estimates didn't - in reality - vary so much. Still, it seems it will probably eventually settle on just over five million. Of course though, those researching the matter don't spend long hours poring over transportation records - they simply wait for the Illuminati to call and tell them the number!

If I am such a robot, why do your little chums seem incapable of anything other than imitating spambots?

I don't care about them, I only care about Truth.
You are wrong about this issue. Unless as I mentioned before, in which case you are still being a tool of "them". Because you are arguing for the wrong reasons, ie, the "evidence", no longer exists, not due to nazis, but because of hyper-dimensional manipulations of reality.

mynameis

09-02-2009, 12:34 AM

Whatever you say, ROBOT.

Wow another off topic strawman post by a strawman.

novymir

09-02-2009, 12:59 AM

Wow another off topic strawman post by a strawman.

HYPOCRITE...
and copy/paste drone.

Watch me ignore you from now on.

mynameis

09-02-2009, 01:04 AM

HYPOCRITE...
and copy/paste drone.

Watch me ignore you from now on.

Another off topic strawman post. Whoever let's these scarecrows near computers must have straw for brains as well.

mynameis

09-02-2009, 01:05 AM

I don't care about them, I only care about Truth.

But like to lie down and get in to bed with liars.

runciter

09-02-2009, 06:44 AM

thank you guys, now i'm convinced: it was a hoax.

sophia_h

09-02-2009, 07:02 AM

`

thank you guys, now i'm convinced: it was a hoax.

now i'm convinced: it was a hoax

LOL !

It IS a hoax

more alive than when it was started after WW2

to trap Gentiles AGAIN in guilt

only this time with the Great Lie to make Gentiles BELIEVE

60 years of programmmig

start a lie and tell it often
in global controlled media
in two generations people will defend it to the death

This is why the hoax has been made into the world religon

you MUST believe

it is NOW

not WAS

;)

.

dogsmilk

09-02-2009, 07:37 AM

`

LOL !

It IS a hoax

more alive than when it was started after WW2

to trap Gentiles AGAIN in guilt

only this time with the Great Lie to make Gentiles BELIEVE

60 years of programmmig

start a lie and tell it often
in global controlled media
in two generations people will defend it to the death

This is why the hoax has been made into the world religon

you MUST believe

it is NOW

not WAS

;)

.

Sophia

I am still waiting for you to reply to me here -

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51107&page=4

And I think I asked you a couple of questions earlier in this thread.

Since you are purportedly something of a 'holohoax scholar', one would think you would appreciate the opportunity to dazzle us with your deep knowledge (and orderly 'indexes'), but instead it appears you simply copy and paste Holocaust denial and pro-Nazi stuff you found on the internet and leave it at that. They say "truth does not fear investigation" don't they? So why the hypocrisy?

Your "guilt" thing is a straw man. You may choose to invent highly implausible sounding little tales of weeping Germans, but you may as well argue British people all feel personally responsible for the slave trade or invasion of Iraq. The Holocaust was not about "Germans" it was about the indoctrinated groupthink and racist, eugenic ideology of National Socialism.

Novymir -

I don't care about them, I only care about Truth.
You are wrong about this issue. Unless as I mentioned before, in which case you are still being a tool of "them". Because you are arguing for the wrong reasons, ie, the "evidence", no longer exists, not due to nazis, but because of hyper-dimensional manipulations of reality.

What on earth is this supposed to mean?

sophia_h

09-02-2009, 07:55 AM

`

Several threads ago I stated because of the illinformed
BABBLE of your posts I have no interest in entering into any
dialogues in which senseless drivel is what you believe is reality

nor do I CHOOSE to allow your repetitious insluts and personal attacks

you are, of course, free to continue making DEMANDS that I
play in your little sand box

I am, of course, free to continue to ignore your convoluted
excuse for reasoned debate as you have such no concept

go back to baiting the victims you prey on

I wont waste my intellectual vigor on BABBLERS

`

runciter

09-02-2009, 08:08 AM

astrochicken

09-02-2009, 08:12 AM

if it's a hoax, it has no true existence.

Exactly... prove something that never happened!

I would have thought the burden of guilt should be laid down by those
*shilling for the holohoax*. If the proof is there to stick people in jail, then
you should have no problems convincing a couple of dozen freethinking revisionists.

accuracy

09-02-2009, 08:32 AM

accuracy

09-02-2009, 08:46 AM

Hello my little flower.

Unfortunately, Mr Leuchter represents yet another embarrassing failure for denial which, though admittedly still recycled now and then, has in reality as much contemporary relevance as the Sinclair C5 or Atari Jaguar.

The other article apparently carries no date, but a quick scan of the footnotes seems to indicate none later than 1991.

One wonders if the Tardis is malfunctioning and needs The Doctor to reverse the polarity of the neutron flow or if you should simply stop taking the little green pills at medication time, but it may surprise you to learn that where I am it's 2009. Just out of interest, what day do you think it is?
These articles are old too, but these days there are hitherto undiscovered Amazonian tribes who don't buy that crap about Prussian blue.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/blue/
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/not-the-science/

You might also wish to peruse Van Pelt's and Green's affidavits they wrote for Irving's appeal at the Lipstadt trial as a response to Germar Rudolf's 'expert' report as they are also relevant. They're on HHP somewhere - just check your indexes or something. They were never actually used as Irving decided not to use Rudolf's work. Word on the street was it was because Irving knew it would simply make him look like even more of a clown. Indeed, I recall reading on Irving's website he had to get Rudolf to do it twice because the first attempt was so shoddy. See - a lot's happened since '91!

Just out of interest, since you're citing the journal of mendacious bullshit, what's your opinion on Mark Weber sacking off denial as a lost cause?

I see you have started yet another copy and paste thread, yet I am still waiting for a response here -
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51107&page=4
I realise National Socialism was heavily reliant on propaganda and using the controlled media to bombard the public with ideological messages, but this is a discussion forum. It is poor form to ignore people and then start new spam threads on the same topic. It's not big, it's not clever and you're not impressing anyone.

Oh -

Remind me - what country were the extermination camps actually in?

Have a think...

And then reflect on how you declare you know the Holocaust never happened...while apparently unaware of where the extermination camps actually were...

More denial by you??

David Irving is a NWO puppet ( this is for the other readers, not you.)

accuracy

09-02-2009, 08:56 AM

----------------------------------------------

Well, you can have a point I suppose since Poland did become Soviet turf.

And of course I find a single article from 1919, that is constantly repeated on that net and that mentions 6 million Jews being "threatened" totally convincing as some kind of 'forward plan'. If only actual estimates didn't - in reality - vary so much. Still, it seems it will probably eventually settle on just over five million. Of course though, those researching the matter don't spend long hours poring over transportation records - they simply wait for the Jewish Illuminati to call and tell them the number!

If I am such a robot, why do your little chums seem incapable of anything other than imitating spambots?

An a expected response by a NWO agent......................:cool:

accuracy

09-02-2009, 08:59 AM

Sophia my little poppet,

I am still waiting for you to reply to me here -

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51107&page=4

And I think I asked you a couple of questions earlier in this thread.

Since you are purportedly something of a 'holohoax scholar', one would think you would appreciate the opportunity to dazzle us with your deep knowledge (and orderly 'indexes'), but instead it appears you simply copy and paste Holocaust denial and pro-Nazi stuff you found on the internet and leave it at that. They say "truth does not fear investigation" don't they? So why the hypocrisy?

Your "guilt" thing is a straw man. You may choose to invent highly implausible sounding little tales of weeping Germans, but you may as well argue British people all feel personally responsible for the slave trade or invasion of Iraq. The Holocaust was not about "Germans" it was about the indoctrinated groupthink and racist, eugenic ideology of National Socialism.

Novymir -

What on earth is this supposed to mean?

The same NWO agent playing dumb/stupid:cool:

sophia_h

09-02-2009, 12:32 PM

`

if it's a hoax, it has no true existence.

It has an existence as a religion being forced on the masses
just as judiasm has been

xianity has been
islam has been

and a list if mans invented belief systems the masses
are suposed to accept as some words of the god myth

people need to spend thier energies finding the INNER GOD
that is the LOVER of man and NOT the destroyer with
wars and hates and persecutions of a whole people
GERMANS in order to DISTRACT from that man invented gods
CHOSENs activities that ARE war, hate, destructions.

for those who practice chauvinsim, "my little poppet" phrases,
to try to cast another as a LESSER , or scream anti this or that
or racist , NAZI, and all the juvenile words so often used on fora
when the screamers are feeling "less than", isecure, and inadequate,
when they compare themselves to the ones they accuse
and denigrate, let go of your OBSESSIVE NEED to HATE and BAIT

thats the M.O. of the god of the chosen

it is NOT the god of the Universe

a reasoned discourse will get you the attention you so
desperately seek by its very reason and manners
that insulting demands, disparaging remarks, and vitriol will
never allow you to get past.

one does not abuse people and still expect them not walk away

THAT is insane.

There have been many links on this forum to scholarly works
recognized on all levels , including jewish sources, some even
written by sane jews, all well researched and organized
in a cohesive presentation.

Some of us have written analyses and personal knowledges

NONE of it will ever mean diddly to the insane ones who have
a rag doll between their salivating jaws to use as a security blanket
for when they go to bed and fantasize they have CONQUERED
their IMAGINARY vassals and stupid servants.

Such are unworthy of logical discourse.

as far as the hoax, it is alive and well and strangling
every people in every nation.

p o g r o m

see:

Jews Banished 47 Times In 1000 Years - Why?

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=790313#post790313

.

runciter

09-02-2009, 01:21 PM

`

It has an existence as a religion being forced on the masses
just as judiasm has been

xianity has been
islam has been

and a list if mans invented belief systems the masses
are suposed to accept as some words of the god myth

yes you're right, but as far as i'm concerned it has lost its power.

dogsmilk

09-02-2009, 02:23 PM

An a expected response by a NWO agent......................:cool:

Come to think of it, even if I were an 'agent', what difference would it make? Are you suggesting an 'agent' has magical powers of making it appear you blindly post the same drivel over and over however plain wrong it's shown to be?

If I were an 'agent', the information available to anyone remains exactly the same doesn't it?

See this is what is so pathetic about this little denier clique - you claim you see through history and you're battling the Jewish NWO & all that shit, but you can't even think and argue for yourselves. What? You're going to overthrow the NWO by having tantrums on an internet forum when you hear things you don't like. Whoa! Behold the revolution! Man the barricades! He-he's saying things I don't want to hear.....BWAAAAAAA!!!!!!! Mummy, mummy! Oooh the nasty man....h-he's an...an agent! So there! Fingers in ears, don't have to listen! Nya! Nya!

Yet...somehow...you know better than, to all intents and purposes, all the historians in the world.....

Really, seriously - stop and think about what you look like.

runciter

09-02-2009, 03:04 PM

Come to think of it, even if I were an 'agent', what difference would it make?

discussing with you would be pointless.. something like a rabbinical dispute.

astrochicken

09-02-2009, 05:28 PM

discussing with you would be pointless.. something like a rabbinical dispute.

Yep, has the same traits as my old man had.. let just's wait till he goes to bed.

dogsmilk

09-02-2009, 09:03 PM

This is his manner also with other members and he is
killing threads with his rants.

How do you work that out?

Have you answered one single question I have put to you without resorting to huffing and puffing?

Have a think.

accuracy

10-02-2009, 10:33 AM

Sorry readers if i.m not posting much at the have a laugh section, as i don't
have much time for it. (Being a full time worker.)

Certain issues needs to be adressed here!

accuracy

sophia_h

10-02-2009, 10:53 AM

`

Sorry readers if i.m not posting much at the have a laugh section, as i don't
have much time for it. (Being a full time worker.)

Certain issues needs to be adressed here!

accuracy

Its good to see that ' fxxx xxf ' phrase in this instance accuracy !:D

`

accuracy

10-02-2009, 11:33 AM

`

Its good to see that ' fxxx xxf ' phrase in this instance accuracy !:D

`

LOL

Thanks sophia h :D:D:D

accuracy

10-02-2009, 11:36 AM

It's past my bedtime, good night all.

Over and out.

astrochicken

10-02-2009, 03:48 PM

It's past my bedtime, good night all.

Over and out.

Accuracy.. don't feed the trolls!!!!
Just ignore Dogmilks attempts and don't lower yourself to his lack of civility and insults.

Let him have his 15 deluded online minutes.
Be happy for him or have pity.

sophia_h

10-02-2009, 05:11 PM

`

Accuracy.. don't feed the trolls!!!!
Just ignore Dogmilks attempts and don't lower yourself to his lack of civility and insults.

Let him have his 15 deluded online minutes.
Be happy for him or have pity.

no, not pity

Its destructive to allow it as it sets one up as
superior to the pitied one

Yesterday when the awful personal invasion was committed
and then finally solved I nearly got into THAT trap

but have had to work on it a lot so deleted it from thinking

and practiced compassion

now its time for TOUGH LOVE

ignore the troll and it will implode and have to take a rest

take no direct action as it will be unbearable to be unable
to bait one of us into its sandbox and it will turn its
venom onto itself

it was after I said I will not respond to it anymore
that it went OTT

It will become more explosive until it hits a wall

Its not a curse, I dont DO that.

Its simply how the bully type plays out.

.

accuracy

12-02-2009, 10:06 AM

This thread ( not mine) desreves abump.

accuracy

13-02-2009, 09:41 AM

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/drezs2_dees.jpg

accuracy

13-02-2009, 09:46 AM

'I Will Not Travel to Auschwitz'

Bishop Richard Williamson's denial of the Holocaust has done serious damage to the Catholic Church. In an e-mail and fax exchange with SPIEGEL, the ultra-conservative bishop says that he is willing to "review the historical evidence."

SPIEGEL: The Vatican is demanding that you retract your denial of the Holocaust, and it is threatening to not allow you to resume your activities as a bishop. How will you react?

Williamson: Throughout my life, I have always sought the truth. That is why I converted to Catholicism and became a priest. And now I can only say something, the truth of which I am convinced. Because I realize that there are many honest and intelligent people who think differently, I must now review the historical evidence once again. I said the same thing in my interview with Swedish television: Historical evidence is at issue, not emotions. And if I find this evidence, I will correct myself. But that will take time.

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,1429392,00.jpg

SPIEGEL: How can an educated Catholic deny the Holocaust?

Williamson: I addressed the subject in the 1980s. I had read various writings at the time. I cited the Leuchter report (eds. note: a debunked theory produced in the 1980s claiming erroneously that the Nazi gas chambers were technically impractical) in the interview, and it seemed plausible to me. Now I am told that it has been scientifically refuted. I plan now to look into it.

SPIEGEL: You could travel to Auschwitz yourself.

Williamson: No, I will not travel to Auschwitz. I've ordered the book by Jean-Claude Pressac. It's called "Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers." A printout is now being sent to me, and I will read it and study it.

SPIEGEL: The Society of Saint Pius X has set an ultimatum for the end of February. Are you not risking a break with the group?

Williamson: In the Old Testament, the Prophet Jonah tells the sailors when their ship is in distress: " Take me up, and cast me forth into the sea; so shall the sea be calm unto you: for I know that for my sake this great tempest is upon you." The Society has a religious mission that is suffering because of me. I will now examine the historic evidence. If I do not find it convincing, I will do everything in my power to avoid inflicting any further harm on the Church and the Society.

SPIEGEL: What does the repeal of the excommunication by Pope Benedict XVI mean to you?

Williamson: We just want to be Catholic, nothing else. We have not developed our own teachings, but are merely preserving the things that the Church has always taught and practiced. And in the sixties and seventies, when everything was changed in the name of this Council (eds. note: the Second Vatican Council), it was suddenly a scandal. As a result, we were forced to the margins of the church, and now that empty churches and an aging clergy make it clear that these changes were a failure, we are returning to the center. That's the way it is for us conservatives: we are proved right, as long as we wait long enough.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0%2C1518%2C606323%2C00.html

accuracy

13-02-2009, 09:56 AM

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,1425325,00.jpg

Bishop Richard Williamson is a member of the ultra- conservative Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX). In late January, Pope Benedict XVI decided to lift the excommunications of four members of the SSPX, Bishop Williamson among them. Just days prior to the retraction of his excommunication, Bishop Williamson said on Swedish television that he didn't believe the Holocaust took place and said that between 200,000 and 300,000 Jews died in Nazi concentration camps instead of the commonly accepted 6 million. The resulting scandal has led to doubts about Benedict's leadership of the Catholic Church, though Benedict last week demanded that Williamson recant his statements.

accuracy

13-02-2009, 10:03 AM

Dresden - A Real Holocaust
& Act Of Terrorism

From 2-14-4
http://www.rense.com/general49/dres.htm
2-12-9

Once again we pause to remember...

Fifty-nine years ago, on the evening of February 13, 1945, an orgy of genocide and barbarism began against a defenseless German city, one of the greatest cultural centers of northern Europe. Within less than 14 hours, not only was it reduced to flaming ruins, but an estimated one-third of its inhabitants--possibly as many as half a million--had perished in what was the worst massacre of all time. As Americans continue to bemoan the loss of fewer than 3,000 at Larry Silverstein's World Trade Center and the Pentagon as they themselves prepare to slaughter many times that number in an act of unprovoked aggression in Iraq, few know--less care--about the campaign of cold-blooded TERRORISM conducted against German civilians during World War II, culminating in the extermination of well over 300,000. The following account, taken from the Feb. 1985 issue of the NS Bulletin, tells us what a REAL holocaust is like.

Toward the end of World War II, as Allied planes rained death and destruction over Germany, the old Saxon city of Dresden lay like an island of tranquility amid desolation. Famous as a cultural center and possessing no military value, Dresden had been spared the terror that descended from the skies over the rest of the country.

In fact, little had been done to provide the ancient city of artists and craftsmen with anti-aircraft defenses. One squadron of planes had been stationed in Dresden for awhile, but the Luftwaffe decided to move the aircraft to another area where they would be of use. A gentlemen's agreement seemed to prevail, designating Dresden an "open city."

On Shrove Tuesday, February 13, 1945, a flood of refugees fleeing the Red Army 60 miles away had swollen the city's population to well over a million. Each new refugee brought fearful accounts of Soviet atrocities. Little did those refugees retreating from the Red terror imagine that they were about to die in a horror worse than anything Stalin could devise.
Normally, a carnival atmosphere prevailed in Dresden on Shrove Tuesday. In 1945, however, the outlook was rather dismal. Houses everywhere overflowed with refugees, and thousands were forced to camp out in the streets shivering in the bitter cold.

However, the people felt relatively safe; and although the mood was grim, the circus played to a full house that night as thousands came to forget for a moment the horrors of war. Bands of little girls paraded about in carnival dress in an effort to bolster waning spirits. Half-sad smiles greeted the laughing girles, but spirits were lifted.

No one realized that in less than 24 hours those same innocent chilren would die screaming in Churchill's firestorms. But, of course, no one could know that then. The Russians, to be sure, were savages, but at least the Americans and British were "honorable."

So when those first alarms signaled the start of 14 hours of hell, Dresden's people streamed dutifully into their shelters. But they did so without much enthusiasm, believing the alarms to be false, since their city had never been threatened from the air. Many would never come out alive, for that "great democratic statesman," Winston Churchill--in collusion with that other "great democratic statesman," Franklin Delano Roosevelt--had decided that the city of Dresden was to be obliterated by saturation bombing.

What where Churchill's motives? They appear to have been political, rather than military. Historians unanimously agree that Dresden had no military value. What industry it did have produced only cigarettes and china.

But the Yalta Conference was coming up, in which the Soviets and their Western allies would sit down like ghouls to carve up the shattered corpse of Europe. Churchill wanted a trump card-- a devastating "thunderclap of Anglo-American annihilation"-- with which to "impress" Stalin.

That card, however, was never played at Yalta, because bad weather delayed the originally scheduled raid. Yet Churchill insisted that the raid be carried out--to "disrupt and confuse" the German civilian population behind the lines.

Dresden's citizens barely had time to reach their shelters. The first bomb fell at 10:09 p.m. The attack lasted 24 minutes, leaving the inner city a raging sea of fire. "Precision saturation bombing" had created the desired firestorm.

A firestorm is caused when hundreds of smaller fires join in one vast conflagration. Huge masses of air are sucked in to feed the inferno, causing an artificial tornado. Those persons unlucky enough to be caught in the rush of wind are hurled down entire streets into the flames. Those who seek refuge underground often suffocate as oxygen is pulled from the air to feed the blaze, or they perish in a blast of white heat--heat intense enough to melt human flesh.

WOMEN AND CHILDREN TARGETED

One eyewitness who survived told of seeing "young women carrying babies running up and down the streets, their dresses and hair on fire, screaming until they fell down, or the collapsing buildings fell on top of them."

There was a three-hour pause between the first and second raids. The lull had been calculated to lure civilians from their shelters into the open again. To escape the flames, tens of thousands of civilians had crowded into the Grosser Garten, a magnificent park nearly one and a half miles square.

The second raid came at 1:22 a.m. with no warning. Twice as many bombers returned with a massive load of incendiary bombs. The second wave was designed to spread the raging firestorm into the Grosser Garten.

It was a complete "success." Within a few minutes a sheet of flame ripped across the grass, uprooting trees and littering the branches of others with everything from bicycles to human limbs. For days afterward, they remained bizarrely strewn about as grim reminders of Allied sadism.

At the start of the second air assault, many were still huddled in tunnels and cellars, waiting for the fires of the first attack to die down. At 1:30 a.m. an ominous rumble reached the ears of the commander of a Labor Service convoy sent into the city on a rescue mission. He described it this way:

"The detonation shook the cellar walls. The sound of the explosions mingled with a new, stranger sound which seemed to come closer and closer, the sound of a thundering waterfall; it was the sound of the mighty tornado howling in the inner city."

MELTING HUMAN FLESH

Others hiding below ground died. But they died painlessly-- they simply glowed bright orange and blue in the darkness. As the heat intensified, they either disintegrated into cinders or melted into a thick liquid--often three or four feet deep in spots.

Shortly after 10:30 on the morning of February 14, the last raid swept over the city. American bombers pounded the rubble that had been Dresden for a steady 38 minutes. But this attack was not nearly as heavy as the first two.

However, what distinuished this raid was the cold-blooded ruthlessness with which it was carried out. U.S. Mustangs appeared low over the city, strafing anything that moved, including a column of rescue vehicles rushing to the city to evacuate survivors. One assault was aimed at the banks of the Elbe River, where refugees had huddled during the horrible night.

In the last year of the war, Dresden had become a hospital town. During the previous night's massacre, heroic nurses had dragged thousands of crippled patients to the Elbe. The low-flying Mustangs machine-gunned those helpless patients, as well as thousands of old men, women and children who had escaped the city.

When the last plane left the sky, Dresden was a scorched ruin, its blackened streets filled with corpses. The city was spared no horror. A flock of vultures escaped from the zoo and fattened on the carnage. Rats swarmed over the piles of corpses.

A Swiss citizen described his visit to Dresden two weeks after the raid: "I could see torn-off arms and legs, mutilated torsos and heads which had been wrenched from their bodies and rolled away. In places the corpses were still lying so densely that I had to clear a path through them in order not to tread on arms and legs."

The death toll was staggering. The full extent of the Dresden Holocaust can be more readily grasped if one considers that well over 250,000--possibly as many as a half a million--persons died within a 14-hour period, whereas estimates of those who died at Hiroshima range from 90,000 to 140,000.*

Allied apologists for the massacre have often "twinned" Dresden with the English city of Coventry. But the 380 killed in Coventry during the entire war cannot begin to compare with over 1,000 times that number who were slaughtered in 14 hours at Dresden. Moreover, Coventry was a munitions center, a legitimate military target. Dresden, on the other hand, produced only china-- and cups and saucers can hardly be considered military hardware!

It is interesting to further compare the respective damage to London and Dresden, especially when we recall all the Hollywood schmaltz about the "London blitz." In one night, 1,6000 acres of land were destroyed in the Dresden massacre. London escaped with damage to only 600 acres during the entire war.

In one ironic note, Dresden's only conceivable military target-- its railroad yards--was ignored by Allied bombers. They were too busy concentrating on helpless old men, women and children.

If ever there was a war crime, then certainly the Dresden Holocaust ranks as the most sordid one of all time. Yet there are no movies made today condemning this fiendish slaugher; nor did any Allied airman--or Sir Winston--sit in the dock at Nuremberg. In fact, the Dresden airmen were actually awarded medals for their role in this mass murder. But, of course, they could not have been tried, because there were "only following orders."

This is not to say that the mountains of corpses left in Dresden were ignored by the Nuremberg Tribunal. In one final irony, the prosecution presented photographs of the Dresden dead as "evidence" of alleged National Socialist atrocities against Jewish concentration-camp inmates!

Churchill, the monster who ordered the Dresden slaugher, was knighted, and the rest is history. The cold-blooded sadism of the massacre, however, is brushed aside by his biographers, who still cannot bring themselves to tell how the desire of one madman to "impress" another one let to the mass murder of up to a half million men, women and children.

NEVER SHALL WE FORGET THE VICTIMS OF THIS UNSPEAKABLE CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY!

Comment

From Wolfgang May
2-14-4

Jeff - Thanks for the Dresden story!
As a young child, my grandmother, mother, and I were evacuated to Dresden with the last train from Breslau. Fortunately, the city was so overcrowded, that we were forced to seek refuge in a small village outside Dresden. If you are going to post this story in your archives, I would love to link to my tiny home page at

http://home.earthlink.net/~wolfgangpmay/

accuracy

13-02-2009, 10:44 AM

Zionist Agenda Articles, "Jewification" Of America Articles

http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/newsac.jpg

http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/mythhol.jpg

http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/gazdenn1.jpg

http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/auchrep.jpg

http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=375

accuracy

13-02-2009, 10:49 AM

http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/rtroj.jpg

http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/merkpopee.jpg

http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/norec.jpg

http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/bnrjn2.jpg

accuracy

13-02-2009, 10:57 AM

Poll - Should The Holocaust Be Re-Examined?

http://whatreallyhappened.com/content/do-you-think-history-holocaust-needs-be-objectively-re-examined

sophia_h

13-02-2009, 11:11 AM

`

For younger readers who may NOT know
Ingrid Rimland is the wife of Ernst Zundel

http://www.zundelsite.org/101.html

.................................................. ...............

"Kill. Kill. Kill. Nobody is innocent. Neither the living, nor the yet unborn. . . "
or ". . . if you have not killed a German a day, you have not done your duty
to the Soviet motherland."

Ilja Ehrenburg, Stalin's Jewish propaganda demon

***

Posted in 1997

February 13, 1997,
Zundelsite:

DRESDEN. WORST WAR CRIME OF WWII

Fifty-two years ago today, the Allies decided to make of the city of Dresden a moonscape.

The holocaust unleashed on Dresden had no strategic or tactical advantage at all for the Americans or the British. Dresden was one of the most beautiful cities in Germany, dubbed the "Florence of the Elbe" because of its world-renowned collection of Baroque architecture. It was known as a showplace of culture. It had no military bases, no major communication centers or heavy industry. It had no air defense. In the last months of the war, it was known as "Die Lazarettstadt" - it had been declared a hospital town. It was also known as the "Fluechtlingsstadt" - the City of the Refugees.

Norman Stone, Professor of Modern History at Oxford, wrote in the Daily Mail:

"Already, by 1944, it should have been clear to most people in the government that we would have to deal with . . . Germans.. once victory had been won . . .

(W)e went on bombing German cities months and months after it had been clear that we would win, and that Stalin would be as potentially deadly an enemy. Some of the bombing was just pointless. In the last days of the war, we struck at the old gingerbread towns south of Wuerzburg, where there was no military target at all . . . just refugees, women and children.

Of these acts of gratuitous sadism, the worst was the bombing of Dresden."

In the early weeks of 1945, the coldest winter in a century, Dresden was swollen with refugees fleeing the advance of the Soviet army. By then, the Soviets stood on German soil, and Ilja Ehrenburg, Stalin's Jewish propaganda demon - that monster master journalist of hate! - had for years hammered away in broadcast after broadcast aimed at the Red Army and repeated in millions and millions of leaflets:

"Kill. Kill. Kill. Nobody is innocent. Neither the living, nor the yet unborn. . . " or ". . . if you have not killed a German a day, you have not done your duty to the Soviet motherland."

Now the Red Army was approaching - and by mid-February stood only 60 miles away from Dresden. Each new refugee train, each new river of wagons, trucks and cars brought fearful accounts of horrendous Soviet atrocities - murder, torture and brutal mass rapes. Hundreds of thousands of refugees flooded into the city of Dresden. The inhabitants moved closer together and took them all in, but even so, there was no room for all. Most of the refugees lived in the city's main park and in what was known as Die Altstadt - the Old Town. Weeping children lay on the cold and wet ground huddled against shivering dogs.

By then, the Allies knew the war was lost for Germany. No one in a decision-making capacity - civilian or military - believed that the German Reich could survive, much less rise to be a threat to the Allied military juggernaut.

In what can only be described as a premeditated institutional act of terror and deliberately planned mass murder, the decision was made by the British and US air force commanders at the prodding of the sadistic Churchill-Roosevelt-Morgenthau trio to exterminate these hapless people trapped utterly defenseless in Dresden.

In January of 1945, it was decided that several large cities in Eastern Germany that had escaped heavy bombing should now be subjected to "area bombing" to "wreak havoc" on German morale so as to pressure Germany to surrender sooner. Churchill himself wanted more than two cities a month razed - until none was left.

So, on Februar 13 and 14, 1945 nearly 1200 British and American bombers, followed by waves of bullet-spitting fighter bombers, conducted a triple air raid on Dresden - an aerial holocaust. The code word for this act of terrorism was "Clarion."

The first wave of bombs struck at 10 PM on February 13, 1945, dropping high explosive bombs on the Old Town to blast the roofs off buildings in preparation for incendiary devices. It knocked out the air raid warning system and caused massive destruction and death. It also destroyed the fire halls and water mains.

The next wave brought the fire. It turned the Altstadt into a howling ocean of fire - 3 miles long and 2 miles wide. Air temperatures rose to 1,100 degrees Fahrenheit. Winds up to 100 mph sucked all oxygen into the center of the storm. Hundreds of thousands of people were burned alive or otherwise fell victim to this second carpet bombing, followed quickly by a third.

Thousands suffocated in cellars as the oxygen was sucked out of the bunkers and pulled toward the blaze to feed the flames. Thousands more were hurled into the air like rag dogs and sucked by the ferocious winds right into the inferno. The air suction of the fire was so strong that it uprooted trees and lifted roofs from houses miles away.

Utter panic struck the people. Horses reared and ran into the crowds. Wild animals such as lions and tigers escaped from the broken enclosures of the zoo and ran into the terrified crowds. Huge snakes slithered between the feet of the fleeing. Hospital trains, still filled with wounded soldiers from the front, were burning and tried to pull out, in the process severing limps from young children who had sought cover from the bombs underneath. Those few who managed to escape the air attack were hounded later from the air by diving planes to kill off any fleeing survivors.

This was described in one account of the bombing aftermath as

". . . scores of Mustang fighters diving low over the bodies, huddled on the banks of the Elbe, as well as on the larger lawns of the Grosse Garden, in order to shoot them up."

When all was said and done, the column of smoke could be seen 50 miles away and stood 15,000 feet high. More than three-fifths of Dresden was destroyed by bombing raids lasting more than 14 hours. This Allied air raid left 24,866 homes destroyed, eleven square miles of prime real estate and irreplaceable cultural treasures devastated, 35,000 recognizable corpses available to be identified, and hundreds of thousands of unrecognizable ones.

How many? Nobody knows for sure. Most honest estimates range from 350,000 to 500,000 dead - many of whom were liquefied into a yellied mass that melted into the asphalt of the roads or were left in piles of ashes amid a city almost totally in ashes and ruins.

One newspaper account published in a German paper, Eidgenosse, (1-3-86) lists 480,000 dead. That count looks like this:

37,000 babies and toddlers

46,000 school age children

55,000 wounded and sick in the hospitals, including their doctors,
nurses and other personnel

12,000 rescue personnel

330,000 dead simply described as "men and women."

Just think of Hiroshima. That city's atom casualties were 71,879.

During the entire war, England suffered less than 50,000 casualties from bombings.

380 persons died in bombing raids on the British munitions and aircraft producing town of Coventry, England - a raid which was declared a "German war crime".

The clean-up crews flowing in after the Allied murderers were gone could not bury all of the dead. So they took railroad ties, made an emergency grid, piled the dead on top of each other and burned them in the open air - soldiers, young and old women, boys in short pants, girls with long braids, Red Cross nurses. Babies. While all of Germany shivered for lack of fuel, these pyres burned day and night. Even concentration camp inmates helped in this macabre ritual for weeks.

Die documentation of this war crime committed by the Allies, commissioned by the Hitler government in the aftermath of the Dresden holocaust, fell into Allied hands.
These mountains of dead captured in the filmed footage were later edited and spliced into Allied propaganda films about "concentration camp atrocities" and were shown to the world at large as "evidence".

Next time you see one of those pictures, think hard about the source. Remember also that those who planned and ordered these raids - and, yes, the crews who carried out these raids - were and are war criminals by anyone's definition!

Many still walk the streets of England, Canada and the United States with impunity. They have boasted about their deeds for fifty years in your press and in their "Veterans for Foreign Wars" get-togethers.

While the governments and the successors of these war-time governments are still combing the geriatric wards of the Allied countries for German soldiers and their comrades-in-arms who might or might not have shot some Jewish Marxist saboteur fleeing a concentration camp, or returning fire against those who attacked them from behind bushes, rocks and bridge embankments wearing civilian clothes, think about the crime of Dresden.

Those innocents who lost their lives in Dresden were killed - not because of something they had done, but because of an accident of birth.
Those who died in the Dresden Holocaust on February 13-14, 1945
were Germans.

Ingrid Rimland

Thought for the Day:

"Even now, it would cost nothing to say "sorry" for gratuitous sadism."

(Norman Stone)

Generakfeldmarschall Keitel said 600,000 were killed in Dresden.

Randulf Johan Hansen
¨
www.thenewsturmer.com

http://www.thenewsturmer.com/TNS%202009/Dresden.htm

...

sophia_h

13-02-2009, 11:57 AM

`

Winston Churchill: "You must understand that this war is not against Hitler or National Socialism, but against the strength of the German people, which is to be smashed once and for all, regardless of whether it is in the hands of Hitler or a Jesuit priest."

Emrys Hughes, Winston Churchill -
His Career in War and Peace, p. 145

***

A Real Holocaust:
Dresden, 13 February 1945

How approximately 500,000 Germans were
"democratically" exterminated in one night

"The Germans would have to be angels and saints to forget and forgive all the injustices, atrocities and cruelties which they have suffered, twice in a generation, without any provocation, from the allies. Just imagine what would we, as Americans, do if we had been treated as we treated the Germans. Our cruelty would have no limits in revenging our suffering!"

Reverend Ludwig A. Fritsch, Ph. D., D. D. emer., Chicago, 1948

by Thomas Brookes (exclusively translated from our German section
for THE BARNES REVIEW)

The professional liars who act on behalf of the Holocaust Industry and the official historiography of the Federal Republic of Germany shamelessly reduce the death toll of the Dresden holocaust by several hundreds of thousands.

On the other hand, nobody disputes that more than 12.000 houses in the center of the city were reduced to dust during the hellish firestorm.

In view of the fact that, in addition to the 600.000 inhabitants of Dresden, another 600.000 people (refugees from Breslau) had found shelter in the overcrowded city, one can safely assume that each of these 12.000 houses contained no fewer than 50 people. But of these houses virtually nothing remained, and the people who had been dwelling in them were transformed into ashes due to a heat of 1600 degrees Celsius.

The deniers of the German Holocaust brazenly claim that only 35.000 persons perished in Dresden. Considering that a superficies of 7 x 4 kilometers, to wit 28 square kilometers, was completely destroyed, this "politically correct” figure would imply that less than 1, 5 persons died on each thousand square meters!

In February 2005 a commission of "serious” historians further reduced this figure, claiming that only 24.000 Germans had been killed in Dresden. But anybody familiar with the character of the political system of Germany knows that these "serious historians” are nothing but vulgar falsifiers of history who are paid for preventing the breakthrough of the truth with more and more bare-faced lies.

The figure of 35.000 dead only represents the small part of the victims who could be fully identified. Erhard Mundra, a member of the "Bautzen committee” (an association of former political prisoners in the GDR), wrote in the daily newspaper Die Welt (12.2. 1995, page 8): "According to the former general staff officer of the military district of Dresden and retired lieutenant colonel of the Bundeswehr, D. Matthes, 35.000 victims were fully and another 50.000 partly identified, whereas further 168.000 could not be identified at all.” It goes without saying that the hapless children, women and old people whom the firestorm had transformed into a heap of ashes could not be identified either.

In 1955 former West German chancellor Konrad Adenauer stated: "On 13 February 1945, the attack on the city of Dresden, which was overcrowded with refugees, claimed about 250.000 victims.” (Deutschland heute, edited by the press and information service of the federal government, Wiesbaden 1955, page 154.)

In 1992, the city of Dresden gave the following answer to a citizen who had inquired about the death toll: "According to reliable information from the Dresden police, 202.040 dead, most of them women and children, were found until 20 March. Only about 30% of them could be identified. If we take into account those who are missing, a figure of 250.000 to 300.000 victims seems realistic.” (letter by Hitzscherlich, Sign: 0016/Mi, date: 31 - 7 - 1992.)

At the time of the attack, Dresden had no anti-aircraft guns and no military defense. It possessed no military industry at all. The city served as a shelter for refugees from the East. The roofs were marked with a red cross.

The German cities became huge crematoria

In that horrible night from 13 to 14 February 1945, the biggest war criminal of all time, Winston Churchill, had almost 700.000 incendiary bombs dropped on Dresden – in other words, one bomb for two inhabitants.

On 3 March 1995, Die Welt commented this fact: "When the cities became crematoria… Professor Dietmar Hosser from the institute for construction material, massive construction and fire prevention deems it highly probable that the temperatures above ground reached up to 1600 degrees Celsius.”

The deadly "liberation” came from the skies

The genocide of the German nation destroyed "80% of all German cities with more than 100.000 inhabitants”. The air forces of the Allied war criminals dropped "40.000 tons of bombs in 1942, 120.000 tons in 1943, 650.000 tons in 1944 and another 500.000 tons in the four last months of the war in 1945” (Die Welt, 11 February 1995, page G1).

The Germans did not begin the bombing war!

It should be reminded that Great Britain and France declared war on the German Reich on 3 September 1939, and that England began the terror bombing against the German civilian population as early as two days after its declaration of war.

On 5 September 1939 the first raids took place against Wilhelmshaven and Cuxhaven; on 12 January 1940, Westerland/Sylt was bombed. Two weeks later, on 25 January, the Supreme Command of the Wehrmacht forbade air raids against Britain, including her ports, an exception being made for the docks of Rosyth.

On 20 March, Kiel and Hörnum/Sylt were attacked with 110 explosive and incendiary bombs, which hit and destroyed a hospital.

In April 1940, British bombers attacked further towns devoid of military importance.

On 11 May 1940, one day after being named Prime Minister and Minister of Defence, Winston Churchill decided to order a massive air offensive against the German civilian population; however he did not inform his own people of his decision. On 18 May 1940, the Supreme Command of the Wehrmacht reported more meaningless British attacks on non-military aims and warned Britain of the consequences.

Not before 14/15 November 1940 did the Luftwaffe first attack a British city – Coventry with its important military industry. This happened several months after the start of the British terror bombing against civilian targets in Germany. The raid claimed about 600 victims.

Air-warfare expert Sönke Neitzel concludes: "Indisputably during the first years of the war all heavy attacks of the German Luftwaffe against cities were planned as military blows and cannot be defined as terror raids.” (Darmstädter Echo, 25 – 9 – 2004, p. 4)

Historians: "The British and American peoples share the burden of guilt for the genocide of the Germans”

In September 1988, military historians from five countries met at a conference in Freiburg. The event had been organized by the Institute for Military Research of the Bundeswehr.

During a week, American, British, German, French and Italian specialist discussed various aspects of air warfare in the Second World War. After the conference, the daily newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine published a detailed and highly interesting article.

Under the headline "Bombing the Cities”, the author, Professor Günter Gillessen, wrote: "It is a remarkable fact that the Wehrmacht stuck to the traditional principles of moderate warfare until the very end, whereas the two Western democracies resorted to a revolutionary, radical and reckless type of air warfare.”

Another interesting conclusion the historians arrived at was the following: "It cannot be disputed that the principles of international law forbade total carpeting bombing …

The historians considered the indiscriminate bombing as an abomination, but refused to lay the whole guilt on Air Marshall Sir Arthur Harris or the Bomber Command. According to them, the entire staff of the RAF, but even more the political leaders, especially Churchill and Roosevelt, plus the majority of their peoples shared the burden of guilt.”

Churchill wanted to roast German refugees

On 13 February 1990, forty-five years after the destruction of Dresden, British historian David Irving spoke at the Dresden "Kulturpalast".

In his speech, Irving quoted the war criminal Winston Churchill:

"I don't want any suggestions how to destroy militarily important targets around Dresden.

I want suggestions how we can roast the 600.000 refugees from Breslau in Dresden .”

But for Churchill, roasting the Germans was not enough. On the morning after the firebombing, he ordered his "Tiefflieger" (strafers, low-flying planes) to machine-gun the survivors on the beaches of the river Elbe.

Churchill’s systematic war of extermination against the German people included plans for the destruction of every house in every German city.

"’If it has to be, we hope to be able to destroy nearly every house in every German city.’… In March 1945 Churchill began to doubt the wisdom of bombing German cities ‘simply for the sake of increasing the terror’, but the terror continued.” (Die Welt, 11 February 2005, p. 27)

The German elite accuses the victims

Whereas the butcher Churchill actually felt some belated remorse for his war of extermination against the civilian population of Germany, the despicable German post-war elite awarded him the Karlspreis (Charlemagne prize) of Aachen. Churchill accepted this prize in Aachen, one of the countless cities his air-force had devastated, thereby burning alive countless human beings.

Since then, the elite of the German vassal state has not changed.

They continue to praise the murderers and to revile the victims.

On the eve of the fiftieth anniversary of the destruction of his city, the mayor of Dresden, Ingolf Rossberg, did not shrink from heaping abuse on the German holocaust victims; he practically justified the murder of hundreds of thousands (most of them women, children and wounded soldiers in the hospitals) plus the annihilation of irreplaceable cultural treasures:

"60 years after the devastating bombing, which claimed tens of thousands of victims, mayor Ingolf Rossberg warned against misunderstanding Dresden as an ‘innocent city’.” (Die Welt, 12 February 2005, Internet version).

Thus spoke the mayor of a city which had received streams of people, animals and carriages like a caring mother. The streets and squares of Dresden were filled with refugees, the meadows and parks had been transformed into huge camps. When the fatal hour approached, about 1.130.000 people were living in Dresden.

The result of the attacks was even more murderous than the
atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Only the German victims are guilty, not their murderers!

As American, British, German, French and Italian historians ascertained at the Freiburg conference in 1988, not only the main war criminals Churchill and Roosevelt bear the guilt for history’s worst atrocity. The majority of the British and the American population were not blameless either.

The German weekly Der Spiegel stated in its 1/1995 issue: "About six million Germans were killed." As a matter of fact, the actual figure was about fifteen million.
But although even the anti-German Spiegel admits that six million Germans were put to death, the German elite only bemoans Jewish victims.

On 12 February 1995, Ernst Cramer wrote in Die Welt (page 12): "When commemorating the victims, we should stop asking about guilt.” And what had the politically super-correct former German president, Roman Herzog, to say about who was guilty of the German genocide? Speaking in Dresden on 13 February 1995, Herzog chose to insult the victims by stating: "It is meaningless to discuss if the bombing war, the inhumanity of which nobody disputes, was legally justified or not. What are such discussions good for, considering that fifty years have elapsed?” (Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, 14 February 1995, p. 1)

But when it comes to monstrously exaggerating the Auschwitz death toll (according to the well-known journalist Fritjof Meyer, three and a half million Auschwitz victims were simply invented in order to denigrate the German people) the professional hypocrites and liars never say: "It is meaningless to discuss this… What are such discussions good for, considering that so and so many years have elapsed?”

As a matter of fact, all leading German politicians claim that Germany is guilty in all eternity.

Even the unborn Germans are guilty!

Two measures

Let us resume: Not even the responsibles deny that the German cities were transformed into crematoria during World War Two.
The total amounts of bombs dropped on the German cities has been confirmed by the criminals themselves and is therefore credible.

That six million Germans were killed, was confirmed by the anti-German Spiegel and by official statistics, although the real figure is about 15 million.

Nevertheless every liar under the sun apparently has the right to affirm that the allied terror bombings claimed only a handful of victims. These brazen falsifiers of history have nothing to fear from the German justice.

The biggest mass murder in history

The "democrats”, who claim to have "liberated” the German people from Hitler, brought nothing but terror and destruction. In Dresden, they murdered several hundreds of thousands people in one single hellish night and destroyed countless cultural treasures. Women who were giving birth to children in the delivery rooms of the burning hospitals jumped out of the windows, but within minutes, these mothers and their children, who were still hanging at the umbilical cords, were reduced to ashes too. Thousands of people whom the incendiary bombs had transformed into living torches jumped into the ponds, but phosphorus continues to burn even in the water.

Even the animals from the zoo, elephants, lions and others, desperately headed for the water, together with the humans. But all of them, the new-born child, the mother, the old man, the wounded soldier and the innocent animal from the zoo and the stable, horribly perished in the name of "liberation".

"The destruction of Dresden was the result of blind rage and hate! Bomber Harris said: 'Dresden? A place of such a name no longer exists'."

..

3 March.1995 Die Welt page 8:

In the firestorm people were transformed into ashes

In the center of the city, a densely populated area of 15 square kilometers, the firestorm did not spare a single house. The fire was brought about by 650.000 incendiary bombs and continued to rage for two days and two nights. In the center of the city, the asphalt was burning. On the following day, the hurricane was still so strong that a Turkish student felt its power even on a bridge over the river Elbe: "A gigantic hurricane caused by the fire raged over the Elbe. We had to creep over the bridge and cling to the railing in order to avoid being whirled away by the winds.” To avoid a general panic among the German population, Goebbels mentioned a death toll of 40.000, although he had got a report from the vice-chief of the propaganda office in Dresden according to which the real figure was 350.000 to 400.000…Even after the war political considerations prevented an objective evaluation of the number of victims. Too high figures spoilt the idea of reconciliation…. It would be very naïve to think that the Nazi propagandists were interested in exaggerating the death toll… As the allied bombing war had the declared purpose of breaking the morale of the civilian population, any propagandistic inflation of the real figures would only have increased this effect.

NJ commentary: The death toll of Dresden was so huge that Dr. Goebbels decided to downplay the extent of the massacre by 90%. He feared that publishing the real numbers would lead to chaos and a total breakdown of morale all over the Reich. The dimension of the slaughter simply defied imagination.

..

3 March 1995 Die Welt page 8:

The German cities became huge crematoria

At the Altmarkt-Square of Dresden, three meters below street level, they excavated cellars in which the original sandstone layer had become translucent discoloured from white-beige into red. Partly the stone had become 'glazed' ... Berlin archaelogist Uwe Müller said: ‘From that we can see that the tempratures must have ranged between 1300 to 1400 degrees celsius and the area lacked oxygen ... Above ground the tempratures must have been even much higher, as high as 1600 degrees celsius ... Human beings were transformed into ashes'.

GROSS PHOTOS at LINK.

http://globalfire.tv/nj/08en/history/dresden.htm

.

Winston Churchill: "You must understand that this war is not against Hitler or National Socialism, but against the strength of the German people, which is to be smashed once and for all, regardless of whether it is in the hands of Hitler or a Jesuit priest."

Emrys Hughes, Winston Churchill -
His Career in War and Peace, p. 145

....

hewrote

13-02-2009, 11:47 PM

Feb. 13/09 Yeah, the media here is mute on this. and everyone is free to deny, argue, contort, twist and shout....you'll look foolish if you do, but nobody will deport or incarcerate you.

accuracy

18-02-2009, 08:00 AM

'Holocaust Fundamentalism'
And The War On Dissent

Two British Writers Languish In Obscurity In A
California Jail. Their Crime? Satire, Mockery & Disbelief.

By Mark Green
2-17-9

An international court battle involving government-imposed restrictions on political expression has ensnared two right-leaning British intellectuals.

Writers Simon Sheppard and Stephen Whittle stand convicted of violating modern British laws against "stirring up racial and religious hatred" for publishing, among other things, an allegedly anti-Semitic comic book called "Tales of the Holohoax" as well as a nativist-British pamphlet called "Don't Be Sheeple".

As the irrepressible creators of a pugnacious web site called 'Herectical.com', Shepard and Whittle (who writes under the pen name, 'Luke O'Farrell') have published scores of taboo-busing manifestos, cultural critiques and satires, as well as numerous scientific papers and 'general interest' material. But it all came to a crashing end last year under the boot heel of a British court. What's worse, their prickly commentary was about to earn them a multi-year stint in an English jail.

Outraged at what they consider politically based persecution, the two dissenters chose instead to seek political asylum in America. Then the US Dept. of Homeland Security stepped in.

The most recent chapter of their political odyssey began on July 14, 2008, when Sheppard and Whittle (dubbed the 'Heretical Two') delivered themselves to US authorities at Los Angeles International Airport upon their arrival from Europe. But instead of sanctuary they received a one-way ticket to the Santa Ana jail; this, despite the fact that they entered the US legally and the contents of their published works violate no US law. In fact, the server headquarters of their web site, Heretical.com, is located in California. Despite this, an American judge presiding over their asylum case has refused to grant them bail.

Sheppard and Whittle remain in police custody under the watchful eye of the US Dept. of Homeland Security.

'News Blackout' Spells Invisibility

Meanwhile, the mainstream media has shown persistent indifference to this noteworthy First Amendment brawl, even though the case's legal implications are newsworthy, perplexing and perhaps even precedent setting,

But why would the mainstream media play a passively hostile role towards these Free Speech activists? Why? Because the Heretical Two qualify as exemplars of Britain's 'far Right', a movement that's antagonistic towards many modern conventions concerning race, sexuality, feminism, Third World immigration and Israel's elevated status in the West.

The 'far right's' political agenda stands in direct opposition to the multi-cultural transformation of Europe and North America that's been in progress for the past half century. Many rightists allege that these cultural changes have been advanced by influential jurists, financiers, as well as major players in news, publishing and entertainment. When one considers this, the mystery behind the media's self-imposed blackout becomes a lot easier to comprehend..

Bruce Leichty, Sheppard and Whittle's former immigration attorney, had this to say about the bizarre British edict that prompted the Heretical Two to take flight: "Under this novel application of [British] law, American citizens, or indeed citizens of any nation, are rendered subject to arrest and prosecution by the British authorities if anything they post on the world wide web is deemed in breach of British laws governing the discussion of race and religion". These extra-national laws pose a direct challenge to America's First Amendment rights.

Meanwhile, Sheppard and Whittle languish in an American jail, unseen and unknown. This undermines their quest for freedom since publicity is vital to raising funds to sustain their legal battle. But the Heretical Two are not alone. In Europe, additional dissenters on the Right are being targeted. Others, like Holocaust skeptics Ernst Zundel and Germar Rudolf, remain behind bars.

One recent target, a conservative Catholic Bishop named Richard Williamson has come under intense pressure for remarks he made about the official Holocaust story on Swedish TV. This is how it's playing out in the mainstream news:

Jews Tell Vatican: Holocaust Denial is a Crime

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090209/wl_nm/us_pope_jews

By Philip Pullella (2/9/09)

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - World Jewish leaders told Vatican officials that denying the Holocaust was "not an opinion but a crime" whenthey met on Monday to discuss a bishop they accuse of being anti-Semitic.

The meetings, the first since the controversy over Bishop Richard Williamson, who denies the extent of the Holocaust, began last month,took place three days before Pope Benedict is due to address a group of American Jewish leaders.

Williamson told Swedish television in an interview broadcast in January: "I believe there were no gas chambers." He said no more than300,000 Jews perished in Nazi concentration camps, rather than the 6 million accepted by most historians.

"Today we strongly reaffirmed that the denial of the Shoah is not an opinion, but a crime," said Richard Prasquier, president of the French Jewish umbrella organization CRIF, using the Hebrew word for Holocaust.

The headline and narrative are fairly typical of the news-bites that frame this unique kind of dispute. In this instance, the reader findsthe accused Bishop alone, stigmatized and denounced by numerous authoritative sources and even a court. The Jewish perspective is given overwhelming prominence. Nowhere in the article are there any defenders of Williamson's position. The vital issues of Free Speech and political liberty are altogether absent. Case closed.

In most any other context, the attempt by government to impose criminal penalties for mere utterances would be questioned--if not deplored--in the article itself. But arguments involving the Holocaust and Jewish sensitivities are treated, in the mainstream media at least, with unique partisanship.

The London Times (Online edition, 2/9/09) proclaims:

British Diplomat Arrested Over "Anti-Semitic' Rant

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5693687.ece

"Allegations that a senior British diplomat launched into an anti-Semitic rant in a London gym while watching TV footage from Gaza willnot upset the "treadmill of diplomacy", the Israeli Ambassador to London said today.

In a curiously tongue-in-cheek response to a case that has provoked concern within the Jewish community in Britain, Ron Prosor addedthat the tirade did not reflect "the health and fitness of our relations".

The diplomat, 47-year-old Rowan Laxton, allegedly shouted "f***ing Israelis, f***ing Jews" while watching television reports of the Israeli attack on Gaza last month.

He is also alleged to have said that Israeli soldiers should be "wiped off the face of the Earth" during the rant at the London Business School gym near Regents Park on January 27. The tirade reportedly continued even after other gym users asked him to stop.

After a complaint from a member of the public, Mr. Laxton was arrested for inciting religious hatred - which can carry a seven-year prison term - and bailed to reappear at a central London police station at the end of March."

When the dust settles, the curious reader is left with this unanswered question: What's worse?-using the F-word in the same sentenceas the word 'Jew'?-or a military invasion and assault upon a civilian population by an overpowering, nuclear-ready foreign power? TheLondon Times' news slant would suggest that insensitive language is the more disturbing of the two. On this matter, the various writers on the editorial pages of the same newspaper are silent.

Meanwhile, Mr. Laxton is facing real jail time for his verbal protest.

'Overrepresentation': So What?

Have Big Media and Big Government joined forces to advance an ethnic agenda? It's looking that way. Writing in the LA times (12/19/08) columnist Joel Stein adds humor and realism to the stunning reality of ethnic monopoly in Big Media/Entertainment.. He writes:

http://www.latimes.com/news/columnists/la-oe-stein19-2008dec19,0,3844853.column

"How deeply Jewish is Hollywood? When the studio chiefs took out a full-page ad in the Los Angeles Times a few weeks ago to demandthat the Screen Actors Guild settle its contract, the open letter was signed by: News Corp. President Peter Chernin (Jewish), ParamountPictures Chairman Brad Grey (Jewish), Walt Disney Co. Chief Executive Robert Iger (Jewish), Sony Pictures Chairman Michael Lynton (surprise, Dutch Jew), Warner Bros. Chairman Barry Meyer (Jewish), CBS Corp. Chief Executive Leslie Moonves (so Jewish his great uncle was the first prime minister of Israel), MGM Chairman Harry Sloan (Jewish) and NBC Universal Chief Executive Jeff Zucker (mega-Jewish). If either of the Weinstein brothers had signed, this group would have not only the power to shut down all film productionbut to form a minyan with enough Fiji water on hand to fill a mikvah."

Stein clears the air. And he's pretty funny about it. But the impact of ethnic activism in media and government must be assessed, and critically-without the threat of reprisal. Stein expresses good-natured sympathy for Hollywood's ethnic outsiders (plain old white folks) explaining:

"The Jews are so dominant, I had to scour the trades to come up with six Gentiles in high positions at entertainment companies. When Icalled them to talk about their incredible advancement, five of them refused to talk to me, apparently out of fear of insulting Jews. Thesixth, AMC President Charlie Collier, turned out to be Jewish."

But concentrated power with a global agenda can become very un-funny indeed. Just ask the Heretical Two. When wealth, talent, religion and government merge, there can be many, many causalities.

Whittle, in the meantime, warns about federal legislation here in the US that also poses a danger to traditional American liberties. "[House] bill HR-1955", he notes, "is ready to begin pushing the US down the same slope as the UK and European Union". Though this bill finally stalled in the Senate, it received overwhelmingly support by both parties in the House.

The bill, HR-1955, was named the "Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act" by its liberal (and Jewish) sponsor, Jane Harman (D-CA). It contained numerous provisions criminalizing, among other things, "hate speech", which is code for selectively targeting fiery political expression. Senator Joe Lieberman (D-CT) is expected to sponsor a similar bill later this year. Other bills now under consideration in the House (HR-256 and HR-262) also seek to broaden and enhance 'hate speech' penalties.

But as America's Zionized conflicts in Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran push forward, larger problems surely loom. Nevertheless, eliminating politically incorrect speech remains high on the agenda of both political parties. With help from advisors linked to the ADL, lawmakers in Washington are now crafting legislation aimed at circumventing Free Speech guarantees enumerated in the Bill of Rights.

Pro-Zionist Personality Syndrome?

The pro-Zionist personality that's been on the forefront of condemning dissent was put under the microscope recently by blogger/activist Karin Friedmann, who states:

"Jews in America are socially empowered to go way beyond the learned trauma of the Jewish experience that results in typical reactionary behavior. They actually participate in group behavior that is deliberately manipulative and abusive - aimed at punishing activists who stand up for human equality and justice. Over the years, US Jews have become increasingly nutty not only due to currentevents but due to the internet "alerts" coming to them from Jewish lobbyists, who solidify their brains in this self-righteous fantasy world where Hamas is a terrorist organization, where Israel has some kind of right to kill and rob non-Jews.

"So we are dealing with not only dangerous reactions based on past trauma - actually learned trauma based on a glorified and fictionalized past - but American Jews are actually being trained since childhood to interact with non-Jews in a deceitful and arrogant manner, in coordination with each other, to emotionally destroy Gentiles and Israel critics, in addition to wrecking their careers and interfering with their social relationships. This is actually deliberate, wicked, planned behavior motivated by a narcissistic self-righteousfury."

The pro-Zionist personality is so commonplace that it's now considered normal. But when far right dissenters (often smeared as white supremacists) gather publicly to legally and non-violently advance their own worldview, they are typically set upon by even larger numbers of left wing 'counter-demonstrators'. There's hate speech aplenty during these rare encounters, only it usually comes from the so-called anti-fascists.. I recall attending a rally for Pat Buchanan when he ran for President a decade or more ago. At an otherwise peaceful assemblage of Middle Americans who came to hear Buchanan's speech, was a raucous band of aggressive protesters with signs the read "Stop Fascism" and "No Nazis Allowed." Why aren't inflammatory insults like these considered a form of hate speech?

A Left-Right confrontation of this kind happened recently in Germany. When rightists attempted to march in commemoration of the Allied annihilation of Dresden during WWII, hundreds of self-described anti-fascists showed up in an attempt to disupt the demonstration. Many were arrested. Significantly, when the shoe is on the other foot, the anti-fascist crowd shows a remarkable disregard for civil liberties.

But if we step back and take a broader perspective, the case can be made that hate speech is far more common than realized. And it doesn't involve the usual suspects. To find it, simply pick up a newspaper or turn on the TV. Right there you'll find intellectuals, pundits and political leaders using language like "All options are on the table" as they gently threaten mass-murder against soverign peoples who governments are either insufficiently democratic or embody some form of stategic threat. At the very least, language utilizing the implied threat of massive State violence surely functions as diplomatic terrorism. This mafioso-style of diplomacy is routinely used by the US against Israel's foes. Clearly, making the world safe for Zionism is an endless job. This surely explains why there's an increasing emphasis upon one tragic episode of WWII, even as we travel further and further away in time from the event itself.

Indeed, due to rising media coverage, the Holocaust has become as large-or bigger-than any political episode in modern history. In America today, denying the existence of God is a trifle compared to expressing skepticism about the How and Why and How Many died at the hands of Nazis during WWII. Significantly, comparable (or greater) crimes that occurred under Stalin during the same era are consistently ignored. This is probably because details of that kind could detract from what's become the dominant narrative of our time.

Indeed, the Holocaust has come to stand for the supreme expresssion of Gentile inhumanity towards an innocent, less numerous (but greater) people. It also serves to reminds Jews that only their unity, determination and vigilance can possibly save them from the lurking evil found within the hearts of Gentiles.

On a more practical level, the Holocaust story is essential to the maintaining the dubious legitimacy of the Jewish State, a race-centered entity established for the world's most international, influential and affluent ethnicity,

Without the unique and supreme suffering described in Holocaust lore, Israel might be seen as little more than a chauvinistic colony on a land that deserves, at the very least, to be shared by all.

Opposing views about The Holocaust (and Jewish history) now define the outer limits of Free Speech in the Western World. Without the courageous sacrifice by a handful of dissidents, this might never change.

# # #

Simon Sheppard and Stephen Whittle can be contacted by mail at:

Simon Sheppard 08-6404
C/O Santa Ana Jail
Box 22003
Santa Ana, CA 92701

Stephen Whittle 08-6408
C/O Santa Ana Jail
Box 22003
Santa Ana, CA 92701

For information about making an financial donation to help free the Heretical Two, please contact Paul Ballard who is heading up their Legal Defense Fund. Paul's email address: paullballard@totalserve.co.uk

Contributions can also be sent to the Fund in the UK addressed as follows: Croydon Preservation Society, P. O. Box 301, Carshalton, Surrey, SM5 4QW, United Kingdom.

Mark Green can be contacted via PersecutionPrivilegeAndPower.com

From the link:
http://www.rense.com/general85/holfun.htm

accuracy

18-02-2009, 08:06 AM

What Does Holocaust Denial Really Mean?

by Daniel McGowan / February 17th, 2009

In April 2007 the European Union agreed to set jail sentences up to three years for those who deny or trivialize the Holocaust.1 More recently, in response to the remarks of Bishop Richard Williamson, the Pope has proclaimed that Holocaust denial is “intolerable and altogether unacceptable.”

But what does Holocaust denial really mean? Begin with the word Holocaust. The Holocaust2 (spelled with a capital H) refers to the killing of six million Jews by the Nazis during World War II. It is supposed to be the German’s “Final Solution” to the Jewish problem. Much of the systematic extermination was to have taken place in concentration camps by shooting, gassing, and burning alive innocent Jewish victims of the Third Reich.

People like Germar Rudolf, Ernst Zundel, and Bishop Williamson who do not believe this account and who dare to say so in public are reviled as bigots, anti-Semites, racists, and worse. Their alternate historical scenarios are not termed simply revisionist, but are demeaned as Holocaust denial. Rudolf and Zundel were shipped to Germany where they were tried, convicted, and sentenced to three and five years, respectively. Williamson may not be far behind.

Politicians deride Holocaust revisionist papers and conferences as “beyond the pale of international discourse and acceptable behavior.”3 Non-Zionist Jews who participate in such revisionism, like Rabbi Dovid Weiss of the Neturei Karta, are denounced as “self-haters” and are shunned and spat upon. Even Professor Norman Finkelstein, whose parents were both Holocaust survivors and who wrote the book, The Holocaust Industry, has been branded a Holocaust denier.

But putting aside the virile hate directed against those who question the veracity of the typical Holocaust narrative, what is it that these people believe and say at the risk of imprisonment and bodily harm? For most Holocaust revisionists or deniers if you prefer, their arguments boil down to three simple contentions:

1. Hitler’s “Final Solution” was intended to be ethnic cleansing, not extermination.
2. There were no homicidal gas chambers used by the Third Reich.
3. There were fewer than 6 million Jews killed of the 55 million who died in WWII.

Are these revisionist contentions so odious as to cause those who believe them to be reviled, beaten, and imprisoned? More importantly, is it possible that revisionist contentions are true, or even partially true, and that they are despised because they contradict the story of the Holocaust, a story which has been elevated to the level of a religion in hundreds of films, memorials, museums, and docu-dramas?

Is it sacrilegious to ask, “If Hitler was intent on extermination, how did Elie Wiesel, his father, and two of his sisters survive the worst period of incarceration at Auschwitz?” Wiesel claims that people were thrown alive into burning pits, yet even the Israeli-trained guides at Auschwitz refute this claim.

Is it really “beyond international discourse” to question the efficacy and the forensic evidence of homicidal gas chambers? If other myths, like making soap from human fat, have been dismissed as Allied war propaganda, why is it “unacceptable behavior” to ask if the gas chamber at Dachau was not reconstructed by the Americans because no other homicidal gas chamber could be found and used as evidence at the Nuremburg trials?

For more than fifty years Jewish scholars have spent hundreds of millions of dollars to document each Jewish victim of the Nazi Holocaust. The Nazis were German, obsessed with paperwork and recordkeeping. Yet only 3 million names have been collected and many of them died of natural causes. So why is it heresy to doubt that fewer than 6 million Jews were murdered in the Second World War?

“Holocaust Denial” might be no more eccentric or no more criminal than claiming the earth is flat, except that the Holocaust itself has been used as the sword and shield in the quest to build a Jewish state between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River, where even today over half the population is not Jewish.

The Holocaust narrative allows Yad Vashem, the finest Holocaust museum in the world, to repeat the mantra of “Never Forget” while it sits on Arab lands stolen from Ein Karem and overlooking the unmarked graves of Palestinians massacred by Jewish terrorists at Deir Yassin. It allows Elie Wiesel to boast of having worked for these same terrorists (as a journalist, not a fighter) while refusing to acknowledge, let alone apologize for, the war crimes his employer committed. It makes Jews the ultimate victim no matter how they dispossess or dehumanize or ethnically cleanse indigenous Palestinian people.

The Holocaust story eliminates any comparison of Ketziot or Gaza to the concentration camps they indeed are. It memorializes the resistance of Jews in the ghettos of Europe while steadfastly denying any comparison with the resistance of Palestinians in Hebron and throughout the West Bank. It allows claims that this year’s Hanukah Massacre in Gaza, with a kill ratio of 100 to one, was a “proportionate response” to Palestinian resistance to unending occupation.

The Holocaust is used to silence critics of Israel in what the Jewish scholar, Marc Ellis, has called the ecumenical deal: you Christians look the other way while we bludgeon the Palestinians and build our Jewish state and we won’t remind you that Hitler was a good Catholic, a confirmed “soldier of Christ,” long before he was a bad Nazi.

The Holocaust narrative of systematic, industrialized extermination was an important neo-conservative tool to drive the United States into Iraq. The same neo-con ideologues, like Norman Podoretz, routinely compare Ahmadinejad to Hitler and Nazism with Islamofascism with the intent of driving us into Iran. The title of the recent Israeli conference at Yad Vashem made this crystal clear: “Holocaust Denial: Paving the Way to Genocide.”

“Remember the Holocaust” will be the battle cry of the next great clash of good (Judeo/Christian values) and evil (radical Islamic aggression) and those who question it must be demonized if not burned at the stake.

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/what-does-holocaust-denial-really-mean/

sophia_h

18-02-2009, 08:57 AM

`

MORE TRUTH TELLERS JAILED

Please Contribute to the Heretical Two Legal Defence Fund

http://hereticaltwo.nfshost.com/

Prosecution of the Heretical Two (H2). Simon Sheppard was found guilty on
Friday July 14, 2008 of eleven counts of ‘race hate’ -
all relating to internet publishing posted on servers in the U.S.A.
Stephen Whittle (Luke O'Farrell) was found guilty on five counts also
relating to internet publishing.

The case has some analogies with the (failed) extradition hearings in London for Dr Toben's deportation for trial in Germany for ‘holocaust denial’ and with the Zundel trial. However the Germans claim jurisdiction over German nationals even if they post material on the internet abroad and / or live abroad.

In the case of the H2 an English court is going further still by asserting jurisdiction over writings on the internet if they can be downloaded in England. Simon's remaining seven charges were to be considered by the jury on the following Monday. These related mainly to printed material on which the jury was unable to reach a decision. However, the authorities neglected to take their passports and they left over the weekend for Ireland, then flew to Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) and surrendered to officials in order to seek political asylum in the U.S.A.

The law over internet publishing in the UK has been reinterpreted without debate to end freedom of speech on the internet, presumably acting on the orders of their masters in the E.U. and the Heretical Two were facing the imminent prospect of lengthy prison sentences.

They are currently being held under the Department of Homeland Security (D.H.S.) System at Santa Ana Jail, P.O. Box 22003, Santa Ana, CA 92701, USA. Simon's prison number is 0800006404 and Stephen's number is 0800006408. Please write, but do not place return address stickers on envelopes; as all letters with labels of any kind are now being sent back marked unauthorised - letters containing stamps are also being returned to sender.

They can only send two replies per week so would like to thank the many people who have already written with messages of support - please keep writing, as it all helps. Also they would like to thank those who contribute to the defence funds. The first immigration court session was held on September 17 with Bruce Leichty as defence attorney.
The judge claimed that she did not have the power to release the Heretical Two under the defensive procedures adopted by the US authorities.

The ‘asylum-only proceedings’ for the Heretical Two was heard by immigration judge, Rose Peters, on October 14. The move by their attorney to get them released before the ruling on asylum was denied by the judge, whose reasoning appeared contradictory. At the ‘calendar meeting’ of the immigration court on Thursday 13 November - the judge set the merits (main) appeal for three afternoons in blocks of four hours from 2 pm on March 10, 12 and 24 of 2009. It therefore looks very likely that the H2 will spend at least another 4 months in prison in the USA for activities in America which the British government now deems to be crimes, i.e. exercising the right to free speech, but which ironically are not held to be crimes under American law. Simon's retrial on the outstanding six charges, one charge was dropped, was held in his absence, as the British government was not prepared to wait for the outcome of the political asylum proceedings in the US.

The new trial commenced on Monday December 8 at Leeds Crown Court and was deferred on December 22 to January 5, 2009 - the following day the jury went out to deliberate and on January 8 found Simon guilty on three counts relating to Tales of the Holocaust and later in the day, by a majority verdict on two charges relating to Don't be Sheeple - even Professor Rabkin's cogent arguments that the Jews were a religion and not a race had failed to impress the jury.

Although the establishment have so far effectively managed to contain reporting on the trials and asylum attempt to cold and slanted reports in the Yorkshire media, without any discussion of the many issues arising the case. The Heretical Two are, at least, getting considerable publicity at last in this area - the most extensive being in the Yorkshire Post.

http://www.heretical.com/main.html

.

The political persecution of Simon Sheppard & Stephen Whittle

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAxkWhvrOsM

snowdropd
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=snowdropd

August 14, 2008

The political persecution of the Heretical Two), Simon Sheppard and Stephen
Whittle (Luke O'Farrell). As once Solzhenitsyn's voice was smothered in the
Soviet Union, now political dissent in the UK is smothered and persecuted.

comments:

seth797 |

The reds are on the move again.

The UK has become as controlling as the old soviet if not more so.
These Men having to flee the UK is testament to how far Britain
has become a country ruled by sociological dictat & mind bending
"political correctness", rather than a Nation ruled by Common Law,
Natural Social order,promotion of indigenous culture, tradition &
National Pride.

...

dogsmilk

18-02-2009, 11:45 AM

AFAIK whittle & Sheppard jumped bail.

In terms of

taboo-busing manifestos, cultural critiques and satires

-

During the trial, the prosecutor, Jonathan Sandiford, told that jury that Sheppard and Whittle were “a pair of racists” who held “fairly extreme views about people who were Jewish, black, Asian, Chinese, Indian and, in reality, anyone who wasn’t white”.
He continued: “People in this country are entitled to be racist and they are entitled to hold unpleasant points of view, but what they aren’t entitled to do is publish or distribute written material which is insulting, threatening or abusive and is intended to stir up racial hatred or is likely to do so”.
In his defence Sheppard claimed that the material an attempt to “satirise” political correctness. It included Tales of the Holohoax, a viciously antisemitic comic strip denying the Holocaust, copies of which were mailed to the Blackpool Reform Synagogue in 2004. Its first page consisted of a cartoon captioned “Alice in lampshade land”. Other articles over which he was charged included “Auschwitz: The Holiday Camp for Kikes”, “Evil Zionist Kikes” and “Kike Windchimes”.
The jury was also asked to deliberate on several cartoon strips by the American cartoonist Robert Crumb drawn during the 1960s and reproduced on Sheppard’s site, including “When the goddamn Jews take over America!” and “When the niggers take over America!”. Sheppard also published vile material by George Lincoln Rockwell, the leader of the American Nazi Party (ANP), including the “Coon-ard Lines Boat Ticket to Africa” and spoof “year’s supply of instant nigger” advertisement.
Whittle was charged over antisemitic articles in his “O’Farrell Column”, which railed against “Kikes” and “Niggers”.

http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/index.php?link=template&story=237

There have been attempts to frame this issue as solely being about Heretical.com which is not the case:

The investigation into Simon Sheppard began when a complaint about a leaflet called "Tales of the Holohoax" was reported to the police in 2004 after it was pushed through the door of a Synagogue in Blackpool. It was traced back to a Post Office Box in Hull registered to Simon Sheppard.

Mrs Reid said: "That leaflet went much further than simply denying the Holocaust, which is not in itself an offence in this country. The whole subject was treated in a way that was insulting and abusive and as a subject for humour. Another example was a leaflet called "Ohdruff, Auschwitz Holiday Resort" where the general theme is that Auschwitz was in fact a holiday camp provided by the Nazi regime and to which Jews from all over Europe came to enjoy a free holiday.

"This case has taken a long time to come court, partly due to legal argument which took place over many months before the trial. This focussed primarily on arguments about jurisdiction, the status of Jews as an ethnic group, religious group or both, and whether evidence of a Holocaust denier was admissible.

"The judge decided that the court had jurisdiction to hear the case and that the status of Jews was a question of fact for the jury. The evidence of the Holocaust denier was ruled inadmissible.

"We responded to all the legal arguments put forward by the defence; we were determined to pursue this case as we felt that this material was at the more serious end of the scale.

"Both juries saw some thoroughly unpleasant material which contained views which most people would find obnoxious and abhorrent. We would like to thank them for performing their duty in this case and also those witnesses who came forward in both trials to talk about the racially inflammatory material they received."

http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/pressreleases/101_09.html

Still, it's delightful to see you deciding to champion the obviously awful political persecution of two charming men who simply want to go round shouting abuse at "niggers" and "kikes" and posting their delightful literature into synagogues. It's very interesting to see exactly what flag you're flying.
And ever less unsurprising how disinterested you are in actually discussing anything.

MORE TRUTH TELLERS JAILED

Fascinating to see you getting ever more overt in what your twisted definition of "truth telling" consists of.

And of course all this from the freedom of speech champion that has complained about my posts and wants me censored.

Sheppard is, of course, the man that brought the world Redwatch. One wonders what Sophia and Accuracy think of that little venture.

dogsmilk

18-02-2009, 11:59 AM

promotion of indigenous culture,

Then please get the fuck out of America Soph or else go live in a wigwam. You are not indigenous.

Natural Social order

No such thing.

tradition &
National Pride.

Blindly following customs?
Getting excited about waving some bit of cloth about?
Being territorial about lines drawn on maps by your rulers?
What does this shit mean?

accuracy

19-02-2009, 10:40 AM

A pro Zionist article erased ( a long article)

bryan

19-02-2009, 11:46 AM

Sheppard is, of course, the man that brought the world Redwatch.

Both sides are being manipulated.

The right are certainly fighting a heroic battle to prevent the sovietization of Britain. On the other hand, they don't seem to understand that the immigrants are victims too, not the enemy.

The left encourages that state of affairs by refusing to expose the war on terror hoax. Galloway, for example, instead of telling people that the 9/11 and 7/7 attacks were not carried out by Islamic terrorists, promotes the idea that the ethnic cleansing in Gaza is breeding the terrorists of the future.

The real enemy is the loony left and their offspring the neocons. As it happens, both are sponsored by the Zionists.

vladmir

19-02-2009, 12:04 PM

dogsmilk

19-02-2009, 02:17 PM

The Hidden History Of Nazi-Zionist Collaboration And The Inner Story Of The Hoax Of "Jewish Holocaust"
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6303824/Harun-Yahya-Holocaust-Deception

Dissecting the Holocaust:The Growing Critique of ‘Truth’ and ‘Memory’ Edited by Germar Rudolf
http://www.scribd.com/doc/11998689/Dissecting-the-Holocaust-The-Growing-Critique-of-Truth-and-Memory

Germar 'many names' Rudolf's DTH is well known and standard bullshit, but at least he's a clever guy.
However, I'd never seen that other one before; I scanned through to the bit on gas chambers and it was fucking brilliant - it's one of the most shit denier efforts I have ever seen. It's a masterpiece of denier kitsch. Then I looked at his website and he totally loves himself - check out all the moody pictures
http://www.harunyahya.com/theauthor.php
I can't believe I didn't know about this guy - he rocks.
Thanks loads for posting

vladmir

20-02-2009, 04:02 AM

I can't believe I didn't know about this guy - he rocks.
Thanks loads for posting
You are welcome.

accuracy

20-02-2009, 11:49 AM

Bishop Richard Williamson ordered to leave Argentina

From The TimesFebruary 19, 2009

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5769649.ece

An English bishop who denies the holocaust has been ordered to leave Argentina.

Bishop Richard Williamson has been give ten days to leave the country or face expulsion after global controversy over his views and the Vatican’s attitudes towards them.

The Argentine Interior Ministry said Bishop Williamson’s statements on the Holocaust “profoundly insult Argentine society, the Jewish community and all of humanity by denying an historic truth”.

An international furore erupted last month after Pope Benedict XVI lifted the excommunication of Bishop Williamson, along with three other bishops of the ultra-conservative sect, the Society of Pope Pius X.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00490/Bishop-Williamson_490343a.jpg

Bishop Williamson denies any Jews died in gas chambers - calling such claims “lies” - and says that no more than 300,000 died in Nazi concentration camps. The commonly accepted figure is six million.

Bishop Williamson had been head of La Reja seminary in Buenos Aires since 2003 but he was removed from that job last week.

The Argentine interior ministry said that Bishop Williamson had not declared “his true activity” as the director of the seminary on immigration forms, and had “concealed the true motive for his stay in the country” by claiming to be an employee of a non-governmental body.

The government said it had been unaware of Bishop Williamson’s position until recent publicity, but added that his views were a factor in the decision to expel him.

Guillermo Oliveri, the government’s secretary for religious affairs, said: “I absolutely agree with the expulsion of a man residing in our country following his statements [denying] one of the greatest human tragedies.”

Christian Bouchacourt, the director the Latin American branch of the Society of Pope Pius X, said at the time of his dismissal that Bishop Williamson’s views “in no way reflect the position of our congregation”.

Tonight the Vatican said it had no comment on the Argentine decision. Bishop Williamson is thought to still be in Argentina and it is unclear where he might go.

The row started last month when the Pope decided to lift the excommunication, imposed in 1988. The Vatican explained that his aim was to bring the Society of Pope Pius X back towards unity with the Church, and that he had been unaware of Bishop Williamson’s views.

Two weeks ago the Vatican ordered Bishop Williamson to recant his statements “in an absolutely equivocal and public fashion”. Pope Benedict XVI met American Jewish leaders to say that Holocaust denial was “intolerable” and that he wanted to offer “the hand of friendship” to Jews.

The Vatican was trying to close down a row that had seen other faith leaders and even Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, criticise the decision to lift Bishop Williamson’s excommunication.

Bishop Williamson has apologised for the anguish caused by his views, which he first expressed in 1989, but not for the views themselves.

The Society of Pope Pius X was founded by the French Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre in revulsion at the liberalising reforms of the second Vatican Council of the 1960s.

Bishop Williamson, an Old Wykehamist and Cambridge graduate, converted to Rome from Anglicanism at the age of 30. “I knew the world was going to hell in a handbasket and the Catholic religion is the only answer,” he explained.

“I believe that the historical evidence is strongly against, is hugely against, six million Jews having been deliberately gassed in gas chambers as a deliberate policy of Adolf Hitler,” he told Swedish television last month, days before the Pope’s decision.

accuracy

20-02-2009, 11:55 AM

Not sure if Argentina is NWO controlled.

This from another site:
`UNHoly Roman' 14th Amendment United "Corp" States Empire LONG WAR
Russia, China, Brazil, Syria, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, India forming to defeat the Western New World Order or so we're made to believe. Any news on these places can be added here along with WAR information! Its the Jesuit controlled Crusade for the full control and creation of their One World Government.
** 14th Amendment was NEVER ratified **

accuracy

26-02-2009, 04:38 AM

Holocaust-denial Bishop Richard Williamson takes flight to Britain as expulsion threat looms

From The Times February 25, 2009

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00492/Bishop-Williamson_492875a.jpg
Richard Williamson clashing with a reporter in Buenos Aires

The English bishop whose excommunication was lifted by the Pope despite the cleric’s denial of the full extent of the Holocaust flies in to Heathrow this morning after being threatened with expulsion by Argentina.

Richard Williamson, who converted to Roman Catholicism as a young man, has contacted the revisionist historian David Irving, asking how to present his views on the Holocaust without arousing controversy, The Times has learnt.

Bishop Williamson, of the ultraconservative Society of St Pius X, scuffled with a reporter at Buenos Aires airport, raising his fist and apparently shoving him as he hurried to catch his British Airways flight for London.

The bishop will be met at Heathrow by the socialite Michele Renouf with a legal team. Ms Renouf, a former beauty queen, denies that she is anti-Semitic but has described Judaism as a “repugnant and hate-filled religion”.

She found lawyers to defend the Australian Frederick Toben after he was arrested at Heathrow last October at the request of the German authorities for publishing “anti-Semitic and/or revisionist” material on an internet site. He was released from Wandsworth prison after a British judge ruled that the arrest warrant was invalid.

Ms Renouf and Dr Toben were appointed to an “international fact-finding committee on the Holocaust” at the end of Iran’s Holocaust Denial Conference in December 2006, at which she was a speaker. Bishop Williamson was put in touch with Ms Renouf by Mr Irving.

The row over the bishop’s views erupted after he claimed on Swedish television that there were no gas chambers and that no more than 300,000 Jews died in the Holocaust, rather than the accepted figure of six million.

Argentina has one of the largest Jewish populations in the world outside Israel and last Thursday its Government gave Bishop Williamson ten days to leave the country. It condemned his views on the Holocaust as “deeply offensive to Argentine society, the Jewish people and humanity”.

Mr Irving, who has served a prison sentence in Austria for “glorifying and identifying with the German Nazi Party” and who also lost a libel action against Penguin Books and the American historian Deborah Lipstadt after she accused him of Holocaust denial, said that he first met Bishop Williamson at a garden party at his house in Windsor last October. Photographs of the bishop at the party were removed from Mr Irving’s website at the bishop’s request, the historian said.

Mr Irving defended the bishop against the charge of Holocaust denial, saying: “He is not a Holocaust denier. Like me, he does not buy the whole package.” He said that they had been in e-mail contact. “About a week ago I sent him a lengthy e-mail telling him what he could safely say. He should not be quoted as saying things which are not tenable. I sent two pages telling him what is incontrovertible fact. I got a message back thanking me.”

They have also exchanged other e-mails about the difficulties Bishop Williamson is embroiled in.

Mr Irving said: “He is obviously a very intelligent man who did not realise the danger of talking to the press.”

Only days after the Swedish TV interview was broadcast, Pope Benedict XVI lifted the excommunication on Williamson and three other bishops of the Society of St Pius X, to widespread incredulity and anger.

Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, criticised the move and called on the Pope to make a “very clear” repudiation of Holocaust denial.

The Society of St Pius X also sacked Bishop Williamson as head of its seminary outside Buenos Aires.

France’s International League Against Racism and Anti-Semitism also wants to see Bishop Williamson in court charged with “contesting crimes against humanity”.

Even in the Vatican the affair has exposed divisions among senior cardinals. The Times has learnt that Cardinal Battista Re, who heads the Holy See’s Congregation for Bishops and who opposed the lifting of the excommunications, “roared” with anger when he was presented with the document to sign as a fait accompli.

The interview for Swedish television was recorded in Bavaria and prosecutors are considering whether to press charges. Holocaust denial is a crime punishable by imprisonment in Germany. If charges are brought, Bishop Williamson could face extradition.

He and the three other bishops were excommunicated automatically in 1988 after they were consecrated without the sanction of the Holy See.

A hardline history

— Bishop Richard Williamson, 68, is one of four bishops of the ultra-traditionalist Society of St Pius X who had their excommunications lifted by the Holy See last month

— The society was founded in 1970 by the French Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre in opposition to the reforms of the Second Vatican Council (1962-65)

— The bishops incurred automatic excommunication after Archbishop Lefebvre consecrated them in 1988 against Pope John Paul II’s orders

— The society opposed the rendering into the vernacular of the Mass and the council’s reforms in general, including the seminal council document Nostra Aetate, which repudiated the charge of deicide levelled for centuries against the Jewish people by Christians

— The society is still not canonically recognised by the Holy See and the bishops cannot function legitimately as priests or bishops within the Roman Catholic Church

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5799457.ece

accuracy

26-02-2009, 06:33 AM

http://www.vho.org/store/p/185.jpg

Germar Rudolf, Carlo Mattogno: Auschwitz-Lies. Legends, Lies, and Prejudices on the Holocaust
French biochemist G. Wellers exposed the Leuchter Report as "fallacious" — he exposed only his own grotesque incompetence. "Polish researcher Prof. J. Markiewicz proved with analysis that Zyklon B was used in the gas chambers of Auschwitz" — Markiewicz fabricated his results. "Chemist Dr. Richard Green showed that the revisionists' chemical arguments are flawed" — Green actually had to admit that the revisionists are right. "Prof. Zimmerman proved that the crematories in Auschwitz could cremate all victims of the claimed mass murder." — as an accountant, Zimmerman proved only his lack of knowledge. "Profs. M. Shermer and A. Grobman refuted the entire array of revisionist arguments" — they merely covered a tiny fraction of revisionist arguments, and botched their attempt at refutation. "Keren, McCarthy, and Mazal found the 'Holes of Death' proving the existence of the Auschwitz gas chambers" — they twisted evidence to support their case and suppressed facts refuting it. These and other untruths are treated in this book and exposed for what they really are: political lies created to ostracize dissident historians and to keep the entire western world in merciless Holocaust servitude.

http://vho.org/

mynameis

26-02-2009, 07:05 AM

http://www.vho.org/store/p/185.jpg

http://vho.org/

"Forensic chemistry is, I repeat, an exact science."

Holocaust-denier David Irving,
introduction to the Leuchter Report, 1988

"[C]hemistry is not the science which can prove or refute any allegations about the Holocaust 'rigorously'."

Holocaust-denier and chemist Germar Rudolf,
response to Rich Green, 1998

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/not-the-science/

Rudolf stamps his feet at the fact that reputable scholars do not take him and his associates seriously. The right of freedom of speech is not a right to have one's point of view taken seriously. One has to earn such a right by demonstrating that one's point of view is worthy of serious discussion.

And if that absurdity is not enough, Rudolf next obfuscates, most likely intentionally, the argument to which he is replying. He writes:

Here you have it: Hate speech. Imputing that someone wants to rehabilitate the incarnation of evil on earth - and that is what National Socialism is in the eyes of the vast majority of all humans -, and that he is using evil techniques for this purpose or, alternatively, that he is mentally ill or feeble-minded. On a long run, that sort of arguing drives us directly into mental asylums, prisons or onto pyres, a situation which unfortunaltely [sic] is no longer unlikely in Germany today.

The argument to which Rudolf refers explicitly states that hate speech ought to be protected speech. It is in "The Chemistry of Auschwitz" and reads as follows:

It is much easier to tell a lie than to expose one. Perhaps, that is one of the unspoken reasons that motivates people to advocate censoring hate-speech. Whereas I am opposed to censorship and hate speech laws, I am not embarrassed to call Holocaust-denial hate speech. That is what it is. People who are smart enough to obfuscate using pseudoscientific arguments are also smart enough to know what they are doing: propagating a lie. Although some people may be attracted to Holocaust denial because of gullibility and/or mental illness, these people are not the same people who write these clever but mendacious pseudoscientific reports. The people who write these reports are motivated by a desire to rehabilitate Nazism, an ideology of hate. Hate-speech is what it is, and in calling it that I am merely exercising my right of free speech.(add:Pot Calling the Kettle Black)

The arguments made by the deniers are, of course, repulsive, but they can only have an effect if the public is not educated (add:Brainwashed or Programmed) enough to see the poor scholarship disguised with footnotes. It is because of this restriction on the possibility of the deniers to have an effect that I believe that accurate information is the best possible response.

Rudolf's invocation of mental asylums, prisons, and pyres is unwarranted melodrama. The present authors desire nothing more than Rudolf's freedom to disseminate his shameful lies and half-truths without government interference.

There are, in fact, people (among whom Rudolf does not number) who deny the Final Solution out of mental illness. Intense emotional issues have an attraction to some people who are a bit on the edge. They could have latched onto any issue and picked the Final Solution by chance. We have nothing but compassion for such people, but that does not mean they deserve to have their viewpoint taken seriously. One must earn the right to be taken seriously. One must demonstrate seriousness in the way that one treats evidence and the context of that evidence. LOL

astrochicken

27-02-2009, 09:59 AM

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/not-the-science/

Here's where you went in to hiding..after you tired of getting rebuffed.

Copying and pasting vapid vacous remarks.. throwing in a few personal insults here and there.

LOL

mynameis

27-02-2009, 05:15 PM

Here's where you went in to hiding..after you tired of getting rebuffed.

Copying and pasting vapid vacous remarks.. throwing in a few personal insults here and there.

LOL

I don't hide from chickens. I eat them with little barbecue sauce or maybe a beer flavored broil.

astrochicken

01-03-2009, 01:17 AM

http://davidicke.com/forum/image.php?u=11659&dateline=1235760332

LOL.. Nemesis by fuck.

I hadn't thought about the Tornado & 2000AD in decades.

cheers dogsmilk

dogsmilk

01-03-2009, 03:19 PM

http://davidicke.com/forum/image.php?u=11659&dateline=1235760332

LOL.. Nemesis by fuck.

I hadn't thought about the Tornado & 2000AD in decades.

cheers dogsmilk

Credo! :D

I hadn't thought about that stuff for years either but it popped into my head as certain posters on this forum do somehow remind me of Torquemada.

http://www.2000adreview.co.uk/reviews/extra/2008/trades/nemesis/warlock3-1.jpg

Cleanse and Purify!

I was going to reply to some recent stuff, but unfortunately I have much to do.

Later.

astrochicken

01-03-2009, 09:04 PM

Credo! :D

I hadn't thought about that stuff for years either but it popped into my head as certain posters on this forum do somehow remind me of Torquemada.

http://www.2000adreview.co.uk/reviews/extra/2008/trades/nemesis/warlock3-1.jpg

Cleanse and Purify!

I was going to reply to some recent stuff, but unfortunately I have much to do.

Later.

When the new issue came out it was allways a scramble between my brothers and I to grab it and disappear to the cludgie for the 1st read.

Nothing comes even close to those mid-80's comics.. the Angel family have even turned in to the blueprint for almost every splatter/horror movie.

Probably, in reflection, full of subtle brainwashing wi' their GI's and Strontium dogs and "i am the law" LOL... allegedly their's a new Judge Dredd Vs. Judge Death movie in production.. hopefully he'll leave his fucking helmet on this time. ;)

accuracy

02-03-2009, 10:29 AM

I don't hide from chickens. I eat them with little barbecue sauce or maybe a beer flavored broil.

I love you're taste, mynameis. :D

accuracy

02-03-2009, 10:49 AM

Holocaust Denial Videos

9 hours of free internet video about how the holocaust is a hoax

http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com/david_cole_image.jpg

Auschwitz

(A 3 part video)

http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com/buchenwald_graphic.jpg

Buchenwald

And much more................................;)

http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com/

oiram

05-03-2009, 05:09 AM

Auschwitz Survivor Claims Elie Wiesel is an Impostor

Looks like one more Parasite has been found making millions form the death!
Real good business in every way!
English Language Exclusive!

Translated from the Hungarian by our Budapest Bureau

Miklos Gruner, 15, was deported from Hungary to Auschwitz-Birkenau in May 1944, with his mother, father as well as a younger and an elder brother. He says that his mother and his younger brother were immediately killed after their arrival in the camp. Then he, his elder brother and their father had an inmate number tattooed on their arms and were sent to perform hard work in a synthetic fuel factory linked to IG Farben where the father died six months later. After that, the elder brother was sent to Mauthausen and, as the young Miklos was then alone, two elder Jewish inmates who were also Hungarians and friends with his late father took him under their protection. These two protectors of the young Miklos were the Lazar and Abraham Wiesel brothers.

In the following months, Miklos Gruner and Lazar Wiesel became good friends. Lazar Wiesel was 31 years old in 1944. Miklos never forgot the number Lazar was tattooed with by the Nazis: A-7713. In January 1945, as the Russian army was coming, the inmates were transferred to Buchenwald. During the three months this transfer took, partly by foot, partly by train, more than half of the inmates died and amongst them was Abraham, the elder brother of Lazar Wiesel. In April 8, 1945, the US army liberated Buchenwald. Miklos and Lazar were amongst the survivors of the camp. As Miklos had tuberculosis, he was sent in a Swiss clinic and therefore was separated from Lazar. After recovering, Miklos emigrated to Australia while his elder brother, who also survived the war, established himself in Sweden.

Years later, in 1986, Miklos was contacted in Australia by a Swedish journal and was invited to come in Sweden in order to meet "an old friend" named Elie Wiesel... As Miklos answered that he doesn`t know anyone with this name, he was told Elie Wiesel was the same person Miklos knew in the Nazi camps under the name Lazar Wiesel and with the inmate number A-7713... Miklos still remembered that number and he was therefore convinced at that point that he was going to meet his old friend Lazar and happily accepted the invitation to fly to Sweden in December 14, 1986. Miklos recalls:

" I was very happy at the idea of meeting Lazar but when I got out of the plane, I was stunned to see a man I didn`t recognize at all, who didn`t even speak Hungarian and who was speaking English in a strong French accent... so, our meeting was over in about ten minutes. As a goodbye gift, the man gave me a book titled "Night" of which he claimed to be the author. I accepted the book I didn`t know at that time but told everyone there that this man was not the person he pretended to be!"

Miklos recalls that during this strange meeting, Elie Wiesel refused to show him the tattooed number on his arm, saying he didn`t want to exhibit his body. Miklos adds that Elie Wiesel showed his tattooed number afterward to an Israeli journalist who Miklos met and this journalist told Miklos that he didn`t have time to identify the number but... was certain it wasn`t a tattoo. Miklos says:

- After that meeting with Elie Wiesel, I did research everywhere I could for twenty years and found out that the man calling himself Elie Wiesel has never been in a Nazi camp since he doesn`t figure on any official list of detainees.

Miklos also found out that the book Elie Wiesel gave him in 1986 as something he has written himself was in fact written in Hungarian in 1955 by Miklos old friend Lazar Wiesel and published in Paris under the title "A Világ Hallgat", meaning approximately "The Silence of the World". The book was then shortened and rewritten in French as well as in English in order to be published under the author`s name Elie Wiesel in 1958, under the french title "La Nuit" and the English title "Night". Ten million copies of the book were sold in the world by Elie Wiesel who even received a Nobel prize for it in 1986 while -says Miklos- the real author Lazar Wiesel was mysteriously missing...

- Elie Wiesel never wanted to meet me again, says Miklos. He became very successful; he takes 25 thousand dollars for a 45 minutes speech on the Holocaust. I have officially reported to the FBI that Elie Wiesel is an impostor but had no answer. I have also complained to the Swedish Royal Academy of Sciences with no result. The American and the Swedish media which I tried to contact were indifferent. I have received anonymous calls telling me I could be shot if I don`t shut up but I am not afraid of death any more. I have deposited the whole dossier in four different countries and, if I died suddenly, they would be made public. The world must know that Elie Wiesel is an impostor and I am going to tell it, I am going to publish the truth in a book called "The Story of a Stolen Nobel Prize Identity".
----

http://www.henrymakow.com/index.html

I have received anonymous calls telling me I could be shot if I don`t shut up

The loving Jews all they love is to murder people which love the truth! "Figures"

More & more truth every day ..... Good ... & they will run naked in the streets.

http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/biggest_liar.jpghttp://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/11/israelus1.jpghttp://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/liarliar.gif
http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/11/pigw.jpg

oiram

05-03-2009, 05:30 AM

Mahler Gets 6 Years Over
Holocaust Statement
Zionism Is Destroying Civilization
2-26-9

MUNICH - German dissident Horst Mahler has been sentenced to six years in prison for "Volksverhetzung" (racial incitement). The symbolically significant number of years imposed for "anti- Semitic hate speech" stemmed from his refusal to recognize the Jewish Holocaust®, which he described as "the biggest lie in world history."

http://www.rense.com/general85/mahler.jpg

FACING LIFELONG IMPRISONMENT-Dissident Horst Mahler is seen here with his wife Sylvia Stolz, currently in prison for defending other dissidents.

The 73-year-old defendant was accused, among other things, of repeated dissemination of his views on the Internet as well as distribution of a revisionist videotape and a CD and book by Holo-skeptic Germar Rudolf, now serving time for "Holocaust® denial" in a German prison.

Immediately following sentencing, the 73-year-old dissident was arrested and led away before astonished onlookers in the courtroom, including many of his supporters.

The former attorney for the right wing National Democratic Party (NPD) successfully represented that organization when the German regime tried to have it banned in the 1990s. He earlier received prison sentences for thought-crimes on several occasions.

'I have resolved to call a lie a lie'

In his concluding remarks before the court, Mahler noted that with another case pending against him he faces a total of over 12 years in prison - the equivalent of a life sentence, given his advanced age. He would, however, stand by his views.

In setting a personal example, Mahler declared that it was incumbent upon every German to "deal a deathblow to the Holocaust® religion as martyrs for the truth."

The dissident defendant concluded by saying:

"I have resolved to expose this Talmudic perfidy, that over and over again I will call a lie a lie and oppose it with the truth. I have sworn to my people never to give up in this fight against the Holocaust® religion."

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oiram

06-03-2009, 03:17 PM

Jewish "Renegades"
Long before WWI, before Leo Frank and the founding of the ADL and long before before WWII, Jewish organizations solicited donations to fight "Hatred of the Jews." In order to raise money to fight an enemy an enemy was needed and in the 1890s Wilhelm Marr was promoted in the media as the enemy of the Jewish people in America. Marr is credited with the creation of the terms "Anti-Semitism" and "Holocaust."

It was this a great source of embarrassment to the fundraisers when word leaked out that Wilhelm Marr was himself Jewish, but in an age before alternative media had made the public aware of the preponderance of hoaxes used to sell the concept of Jewish victimhood, the fundraisers covered their obvious sham by declaring Marr to be a Jewish "renegade".

Wilhem Marr was not the only fake "American Nazi" to surface through the years.

Back in the 1970s, Frank Collin paraded around the media wearing swastikas and screaming race hate against Jews. When his Jewish identity as Frank Cohen was revealed, the old standby of "Renegade" was applied to him as well.

More recently, Bill White the self appointed leader of the American National Socialist Workers Party, an ADL/SPLC front has come under suspicion of being yet another phony based on his funding sources and other reasons too numerous to elucidate here.

Then we have Adam Yahiye Gadahn, the so-called "American Al Qaeda" who parades around the media scaring Americans into supporting war on Israel's enemies. His real name is Adam Pearlman and he is the grandson of a member of the board of the ADL.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/node

==========

Wilhelm Marr "The Patriarch of Antisemitism" was a "Jewish Renegade" says B'nai B'rith

The term "antisemitism" was coined by Wilhelm Marr in 1879. Marr's secular, political racism existed inconsistently alongside his religious anti-Semitism.

His self-proclaimed goal was "to free Christianity from the yoke of Judaism."

"Russia is the last defence against the Jews, and its surrender is only a matter of time. The elastic spirit of Jewish intrigue will crush Russia in a revolution, such as the world has never seen the like.

When it has overthrown Russia, it will have nothing to fear from any quarter; when it has seized in Russia all the offices of state as it has done with us, then the Jews will openly undertake the destruction of western civilization, and this "last hour" of condemned Europe will strike within a hundred or a hundred and fifty years at the latest, since the march of events moves more rapidly in our era than in preceding centuries."

Wilhelm Marr
Der Sieg des Judentums über das Christentum
1879

Wilhelm Marr coined the word "anti-semitism" circa 1879 in the pamphlet from the which the above quote was extracted, assuming that it's an accurate quote (if it is, it's almost prophetic).

He was given the sobriquet "The Patriarch of Antisemitism" by Israeli historian Moshe Zimmermann in Zimmerman's 1980's biography of Marr.

The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) of B'nai B'rith calls him an "anti-Jewish German journalist" who "helped push "the Jewish question" to the center of German politics."

Marr was also the founder of the League of Anti-Semites in Germany.

However, ALSO according to B'nai B'rith in their 1926 manual, he was a "Jewish renegade", sharing the same label thrown on Spinoza, Alfred M. Lilienthal all other manner of unmentioned Jewish unpersons:

Quote:

At this time, a Hamburg journalist, Wilhelm Marr, issued a sensational pamphlet, "The Victory of Judaism over Germanism" (1879), calling for the defense of the "vanquished" against their "conquerors." It is through the writings of this Jewish renegade that the term anti-Semitism was coined, "expressing antagonism to the social and political equality of Jews."

The pamphlet of this otherwise obscure writer fell on fruitful soil. It harmonized with the raging national jingoism that had mounted skyhigh with the unification of Germany and that had aimed at the creation of a unified racial and religious body of German citizens.

Source:
http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2009/03/wilhelm-marr-was-jewish-renegade-says.html

Jewish Reference Book: B'nai B'rith Manual

oiram

08-03-2009, 04:16 PM

Here's some more:
http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/

Don't you wonder why the Jewish Organizations are demanding the persecution and ultimate imprisonment of anyone doubting their
account of the "holocaust"?
Free speech be damned in their eyes. There is a slew of anecdotal evidence and "confessions" obtained by torturing Nazis.
Not a bit of this would have been sufficient to condemn anyone in a proper court of law.
But then they cannot have this "story" face the scrutiny of investigation, can they?
They insisted on the laws being changed to stifle freedom of speech and therefore silenced any challenge.
Germar Rudolf is a perfect example of their "justice".

The Persecution
of
Germar Rudolf
Should expert witnesses be sent to jail if they contradict eyewitness testimony? Normal legal proceedings demand that no witness be prosecuted unless it can be shown that he intentionally mislead the court. Also, if physical evidence presented by an expert witness contradicts eyewitness testimony, the physical evidence prevails.
But in Germany this is not so when the Holocaust is at issue. If the findings of an expert witness contradict eyewitnesses, the expert will be sent to jail. Here is a case study of how that works.
http://germarrudolf.com/persecute/

sophia_h

13-03-2009, 06:29 PM

`

http://christianparty.net/holocaustredcross.htm

From: historicistfuturist
To: Andy
Subject: [historicistfuturist] FW: OFFICIAL INTERNATIONAL
RED CROSS RECORDS: Total Camp Deaths; 271,301

This is FAR less than six million dead, and most of these by
starvation or disease. The truth is as we have expected.
Vaya Con Dios, Andy

Once again, TIME and DILIGENCE are on the side of TRUTH.

A Schoepenauer thought comes to mind; something about...

at first an idea being ridiculed,

then violently opposed,

then being accepted as the obvious truth.

OFFICIAL INTERNATIONAL RED CROSS RECORDS RELEASED

Sealed and guarded since the end of WWII at Arolsen,
Germany, the Official IRC records reveal the actual Concentration Camp
total death toll was 271,301

For years, people around the world - "the West" in
particular - have been told that "six million Jews were systematically
murdered by Germans in 'Concentration Camps' during World War 2."

Thousands of honest people disputing this claim has
been viciously smeared as a hateful anti-Semite. Several countries around
the world have jailed and heavily fined people for disputing the claim that
"6 Million" Jews were killed.

Provided here is a scanned image of an Official
International Red Cross document, proving the so-called "Holocaust"
[the long-and-often-claimed-6-million Jews] is just plain wrong
.

Jews around the world have intentionally exaggerated
and perpetually lied for the purpose of gaining political, emotional and
business advantages for themselves. They committed willful, criminal
FRAUD upon millions of trusting people around the world!

document here , see link

Please NOTE that the truth has been known since long
before 1979!
The above compiler, replying to a letter, had to rely on information that
was already in existence!!

Tax-payers of Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Latvia, Poland and other
nations have had multiple Millions of dollars taken from their wages to be
paid out to "holocaust survivors" and their descendants for something that
DID NOT HAPPEN.

The tax-payers of these United States of America spend Billion$ each year in
direct, indirect and military support of the State of Israel,
(which is not Biblical Israel).
This is intentional, criminal fraud on a scale so massive as to be almost
incomprehensible.

( thus so very difficult to believe ! S. )

snip

historicistfuturist

........................

OFFICIAL INTERNATIONAL RED CROSS RECORDS:
Total Camp Deaths; 271,301

Once again, TIME and DILIGENCE are on the side of TRUTH.

A Schoepenauer thought comes to mind; something about...

at first an idea being ridiculed,

then violently opposed,

then being accepted as the obvious truth.

historicistfuturist
....................................

Chapter IX
9. THE JEWS AND THE CONCENTRATION CAMPS,
A FACTUAL APPRAISAL BY THE RED CR6SS CROSS
[corrected Nov 19, 2008, thanks to Wesley Ewers]
There is one survey of the Jewish question in Europe
during World War
Two and the conditions of Germany's concentration camps which is almost
unique in its honesty and objectivity, the three-volume Report of the
International Committee of the Red Cross on its Activities during the
Second World War (Geneva, 1948).

This comprehensive account from an entirely neutral source
incorporated and expanded the findings of two previous works: Documents
sur l'activite' du CICR en faveur des civils detencus dans les camps de
concentration en Allemagne 1939-1945 (Geneva, 1946), and Inter Arma
Caritas: The Work of the ICRC during the Second World War (Geneva, 1947).

The team of authors, headed by Frederic Siordet, explained in the opening
pages of the Report that their object, in the tradition of the Red Cross,
had been strict political neutrality, and herein lies its great value.

The ICRC successfully applied the 1929 Geneva Military Convention in
order to gain access to civilian internees held in Central and Western
Europe by the German authorities. By contrast, the ICRC was unable to
gain any access to the Soviet Union, which had failed to ratify the
Convention. The millions of civilian and military internees held in the
USSR, whose conditions were known to be by far the worst, were completely
cut off from any international contact or supervision.

The Report of the ICRC is of value in that it first clarifies the
legitimate circumstances under which Jews were detained in concentration
camps, i.e. as enemy aliens. In describing the two categories of civilian
internees, the Report distinguishes the second type as "Civilians
deported on administrative grounds (in German, Schutzhaftlinge), who were
arrested for political or racial motives because their presence was
considered a danger to the State or the occupation forces" (Vol. Ill, p.
73). These persons, it continues, "were placed on the same footing as
persons arrested or imprisoned under common law for security reasons" p.74).

The Report admits that the Germans were at first reluctant to permit
supervision by the Red Cross of people detained on grounds relating to
security, but by the latter part of 1942, the ICRC obtained important
concessions from Germany. They were permitted to distribute food parcels
to major concentration camps in Germany from August 1942, and "from
February 1943 onwards this concession was extended to all other camps and
prisons" (Vol. III, p. 78). The ICRC soon established contact with camp
commandants and launched a food relief programme which continued to
function until the last months of 1945, letters of thanks for which came
pouring in from Jewish internees.

RED CROSS RECIPIENTS WERE JEWS

The Report states that "As many as 9,000 parcels were packed daily.
From the autumn of 1943 until May 1945, about 1,112,000 parcels with a
total weight of 4,500 tons were sent off to the concentration camps"
(Vol. III, p. 80). In addition to food, these contained clothing and
pharmaceutical supplies. "Parcels were sent to Dachau, Buchenwald,
Sangerhausen, Sachsenhausen, Oranienburg, Flossenburg,
Landsberg-am-Lech, Flbha, Ravensbruck, Hamburg-Neuengamme,
Mauthausen, Theresienstadt, Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, to camps near
Vienna and in Central and Southern Germany.

The principal recipients were Belgians, Dutch, French, Greeks, Italians,
Norwegians, Poles and stateless Jews" (Vol. III, p. 83).

In the course of the war, "The Committee was in-a position to
transfer and distribute in the form of relief supplies over twenty
million Swiss francs collected by Jewish welfare organisations throughout
the world, in particular by the American Joint Distribution Committee of
New York" (Vol. 1, p. 644). This latter organisation was permitted by the
German Government to maintain offices in Berlin until the American entry
into the war. The ICRC complained that obstruction of their vast relief
operation for Jewish internees came not from the Germans but from the
tight Allied blockade of Europe. Most of their purchases of relief food
were made in Rumania, Hungary and Slovakia.

The ICRC had special praise for the liberal conditions which
prevailed at Theresienstadt up to the time of their last visits there in
April 1945. This camp, "where there were about 40,000 Jews deported from
various countries, was a relatively privileged ghetto" (Vol. III, p. 75).
According to the Report, "The Committee's delegates were able to visit
the camp at Theresienstadt (Terezin) which was used exclusively for Jews
and was governed by special conditions ... From information gathered by
the Commmee, this camp had been started as an experiment by certain
leaders of the Reich ... These men wished to give the Jews the means of
setting up a communal life in a town under their own administration and
possessing almost complete autonomy ... two delegates were able to visit
the camp on April 6, 1945. They confirmed the favourable impression
gained on the first visit" (Vol. I, p. 642).

The ICRC also had praise for the regime of Ion Antonescu of Fascist
Rumania where the Committee was able to extend special relief to 183,000
Rumanian Jews until the time of the Soviet occupation. The aid then
ceased and the ICRC complained bitterly that it never succeeded "in
sending anything whatsoever to Russia" (Vol. II, p. 62). The same
situation applied to many of the German camps after their "liberation" by
the Russians. The ICRC received a voluminous flow of mail from Auschwitz
until the period of the Soviet occupation, when many of the internees
were evacuated westward. But the efforts of the Red Cross to send relief
to internees remaining at Auschwitz under Soviet control were futile.
However. food parcels continued to be sent to former Auschwitz inmates
transferred west to such camps as Buchenwald and Oranienburg.

NO MENTION OF GAS CHAMBERS

One of the most important aspects of the Report of the ICRC is that it
clarifies the true cause of those deaths that undoubtedly occurred in the
camps towards the end of the war. Says the Report: "in the chaotic
condition of Germany after the invasion during the final months of the
war, the camps received no food supplies at all and starvation claimed an
increasing number of victims. Itself alarmed by this situation, the
German Government at last informed the ICRC on February 1, 1945 ... In
March 1945, discussions between the President of the ICRC and General of
the S.S. Kaltenbrunner gave even more decisive results. Relief could
henceforth be distributed by the ICRC and one delegate was authorised to
stay in each camp .I." (Vol. III, p.83).

Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire
situation as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicit in
stating that food supplies ceased at this time due to the Allied bombing
of German transportation, and in the interests of interned Jews they had
protested on March 15, 1944 against "the barbarous aerial warfare of the
Allies'' (Inter Armet Caritns, p. 78). By October 2, 1944, the ICRC had
warned the German Foreign Office of the impending collapse of the German
transportation system, declaring that starvation conditions for people
throughout Germany were becoming inevitable.

In dealing with this comprehensive, three-volume Report, it is
important to stress that the delegates of the International Red Cross
found no evidence whatsoever of 'gas chambers'. The original 1946 edition
did not even talk of 'extermination' or 'death camps' but after the
emotional impact of the Nuremberg trials the Red Cross felt compelled to
introduce into the expanded 1948 Report several, very cursory references
to 'death camps' (Vol. 1 p. 641) and 'extermination camps' (Vol. I p. 645).

However, no means of'extermination' is indicated. In all its 1,600
pages the three-volume Report does not even mention such a thing as a
'gas chamber'. It acknowledges that Jews, like many other wartime
nationalities, suffered rigours and privations, but' its complete silence
on the subject of'gassings' is ample refutation of the 'Holocaust' legend.

NOT ALL WERE INTERNED

Volume III of the Report of the ICRC, Chapter 3 (I. Jewish Civilian
Population) deals with the "aid given to the Jewish section of the free
population" and this chapter makes it quite plain that by no means all of
the European Jews were placed in internment camps but remained, subject
to certain restrictions, as part of the free civilian population. This
conflicts directly with the "thoroughness" of the supposed "extermination
programme", and with the claim in the forged Hoess memoirs that Eichmann
was obsessed with seizing every single Jew he could lay his hands on,"

In Slovakia, for example, where Eichmann's assistant Dieter Wisliceny
was in charge, the Report states that "A large proportian of the Jewish
minority had permission to stay in the country, and at certain periods
Slovakia was looked upon as a comparative haven of refuge for Jews,
especially for those coming from Poland. Those who remained in Slovakia
seem to have been in comparative safety until the end of August 1944,
when a rising against the German forces took place. While it is true that
the law of May 15, 1942 had brought about the internment of several
thousand Jews, these people were held in camps where the conditions of
food and lodging were tolerable, and where the internees were allowed to
do paid work on terms almost equal to those of the free labour market"
(Vol. I, p. 646).

Not only did large numbers of the three million or so European Jews
avoid internment altogether, but the emigration of Jews continued
throughout the war, generally by way of Hungary, Rumania and Turkey.
Ironically, post-war Jewish emigration from German-occupied territories
was also facilitated by the Reich, as in the case of the Polish Jews who
had escaped to France before its occupation. "The Jews from Poland who,
whilst in France, had obtained entrance permits to the United States were
held to be American citizens by the German occupying authorities, who
further agreed to recognise the validity of about three thousand
passports issued to Jews by the consulates of South American countries"
(Vol. 1, p. 645).

As future U.S. citizens, these Jews were held at the Vittel camp in
southern France for American aliens. The emigration of European Jews from
Hungary in particular proceeded during the war unhindered by the German
authorities. "Until March 1944," says the Red Cross Report, "Jews who had
the privilege of visas for Palestine were free to leave Hungary" (Vol. 1,
p. 648). Even after the replacement of the Horthy Government in 1944
(following its attempted armistice with the Soviet Union) with a
government more dependent on German authority, the emigration of Jews
continued.

The Committee secured the pledges of both Britain and the United
States "to give support by every means to the emigration of Jews from
Hungary, " and from the U.S. Government the ICRC received a message
stating that "The Government of the United States... now specifically
repeats its assurance that arrangements will be made by it for the care
of all Jews who in the present circumstances are allowed to leave" (Vol.
1, p. 649).

Modified Thursday, March 05, 2009

2007 by Fathers' Manifesto & Christian Party

..

oiram

15-03-2009, 05:09 PM

Interesting connection ....... Victim or Karma? http://waronyou.com/forums/Smileys/default/applause.gif
Elie Wiesel Lost "Everything" to Madoff

Auschwitz Survivor Claims Elie Wiesel is an Impostor
Looks like one more Parasite has been found making millions form the death!
Real good business in every way!
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=843031&postcount=234

Elie the Wiesel & Madoff
http://www.un.org/chinese/aboutun/sg/messengers/images/wiesel.jpghttp://www.wildacker.de/Infos/Fallen/Wippbrettfalle/Wiesel_02.jpghttp://images.nymag.com/images/2/home/09/02/23-lede-madoff.jpg

Holocaust survivor tells Condé Nast Portfolio: "We thought he was God, we trusted everything in his hands."

N
obody knows depravity like Elie Wiesel knows depravity.

And does he ever see it in Bernie Madoff.

Wiesel, whose charitable foundation was wiped out by Madoff, has until now mostly kept quiet about the alleged $50 billion Ponzi scheme. But today, the Holocaust survivor and Nobel Peace Prize recipient spoke passionately about his betrayal by Madoff, whom he referred to variously as "a crook, a thief, a scoundrel," as well as a "swindler" and "evil."

Wiesel acknowledged that in addition to having lost his foundation's assets, he lost his personal wealth to Madoff. "All of a sudden, everything we have done in 40 years—literally, my books, my lectures, my university salary, everything—was gone," he said during a panel discussion hosted by Condé Nast Portfolio.

His foundation, the Elie Wiesel Foundation for Humanity, lost substantially all of its $15.2 million in assets to Madoff; including his personal investments, total losses may be as high as $37 million. "We gave him everything, we thought he was God, we trusted everything in his hands," Wiesel said.

About 160 people, including Dan Rather, Georgette Mosbacher, and the Daily Beast's Tina Brown, packed the 21 Club for the breakfast meeting moderated by Joanne Lipman, Condé Nast Portfolio editor in chief.

Wiesel was joined on the panel by former SEC chairman Harvey Pitt and well-known short seller Jim Chanos, both of whom had suggestions on how to prevent future fraud—and both of whom believe major financial institutions may be next to face criminal charges for misleading investors.

Pitt also decried understaffing and "a lack of real sophistication" at the SEC.

Wiesel said he met Madoff only twice, introduced through a friend who had known Madoff for 50 years and also invested with him. Wittingly or not, the intermediary played up Madoff's aura of exclusivity by telling Wiesel, "It's true, you are not rich enough." But he agreed to make an introduction.

Wiesel ultimately shared two dinners with Madoff and was impressed. Madoff "presented himself as a philanthropist," Wiesel said. The men spoke, ironically, mostly about ethics and education.

Madoff gave the impression that he was making an exception by allowing Wiesel to invest with him. "It was a myth that he created around him...the myth of exclusivity," Wiesel said. "He gave the impression that maybe a hundred people belonged to his club. Now we know thousands of them were cheated by him."

Wiesel first gave Madoff personal funds to invest, he said. "And because we thought we did so well, we said, come on, we have so many projects.... Everybody we know in the field of finances, they told us, come on, you can do much more, more projects because of Mr. Madoff the savior."

Asked if he could forgive Madoff, Wiesel paused for a very long moment. "Could I ever forgive him?" he asked, almost to himself. Finally, he said firmly "No," to a burst of applause.

Wiesel did, however, come up with an imaginative punishment: "I would like him to be in a solitary cell with a screen, and on that screen...every day and every night there should be pictures of his victims, one after the other after the other, always saying, 'Look, look what you have done.' .... He should not be able to avoid those faces, for years to come."

He added, "This is only a minimum punishment."

Also during the panel discussion:

Wiesel rejected the idea that Madoff preyed on Jews, and that the scheme was some sort of affinity fraud. "It's not the Jewishness in him, it's the inhumanity in this man.... The man is, was not only a liar, a swindler, but he was—not a crook—he was somehow always more than that. More. Once you enter evil, it's not static, it's dynamic."

Charities that were scammed by Madoff should be bailed out by the government, Wiesel believes. "Just as we bail out banks and car agencies, bail out charitable institutions...I think it would be a great gesture that the Obama administration should show that we really think of those who are helpless."

Wiesel sees parallels between Madoff and his Holocaust experience. Although he emphasized that "Madoff is not the greatest story of our lifetime," he added that in recent years, "Madoff is one of the greatest scoundrels, thieves, liars, criminals. How did it happen? I have seen in my lifetime the problem is when the imagination of the criminal precedes that of the innocent. And Madoff had imagination...We have no idea that a person is capable of that, but then I should have learned, of course, that a human being is capable of anything."

Donations to the Wiesel foundation have come in unsolicited: "Literally hundreds of people that we have never known sent us money though the internet.... Just as in 9/11, you remember 9/11 of course was the greatest tragedy, but it also brought out the best in the American people."

Pitt, the former SEC chairman, estimates that despite Madoff's claim that he lost $50 billion, the actual number is probably between $10 billion and $17.5 billion. The larger number "was supposed to indicate how much money had passed through his portfolio.... However big it is, it's larger than it should be, and it's an incredible amount of money."

To prevent future frauds Pitt advocates a new audit system, overseen by the SEC. "What is needed is a system in which everyone who takes money from the public should be inspected every year, or, for smaller firms perhaps every other year, by a completely independent, wholly outside expert entity." The audit would determine whether there were "actual assets" behind financial statements.

Pitt also believes "people who invest money should be required to deal through a non-affiliated entity" to prevent self-dealing.

Chanos, the fund manager, believes that "if Bernie Madoff had been public, he probably would have never gotten as far" because of scrutiny by journalists, short-sellers, or internal whistleblowers.

Both Pitt and Chanos said they believed there is criminality among some of the major financial institutions hit by the financial crisis. "There was criminality going on in the executive suites of these firms...because they were materially misrepresenting the financial shape of these firms as they were raising tens of billions of dollars from new investors," Chanos said. "The level of accounting chicanery that is going on in these major institutions is stunning." Pitt agreed there was criminality, though he added that "I can't say whether it was the executive suite or not."

Pitt said the SEC isn't properly staffed to ferret out fraud. "You can't take young people, two, three, four years out of college, pay them $50,000, $60,000, $70,000, and expect them to have the sophistication to assess a $20 billion hedge fund," he said. Later, he said there is "a lack of real sophistication" at the SEC. "I can say this as a lapsed lawyer...the SEC is overlawyered in the sense that it's heavily dependent on lawyers. There aren't enough economists, there aren't enough MBAs, there aren't enough market specialists in the agency providing the kind of additional sophistication" that the SEC needs.

http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/report.gifhttp://www.portfolio.com/executives/2009/02/26/Elie-Wiesel-and-Bernard-Madoff

gebello

16-03-2009, 09:15 PM

accuracy

17-03-2009, 10:58 AM

accuracy

17-03-2009, 11:10 AM

Heh, as if you care to.

verndewd

19-03-2009, 06:48 AM

In very basic terms;

Zionism is an international political movement that originally supported the re-establishment of a homeland for the Jewish People in Palestine .

A Jew is a member of the Jewish people, an ethnoreligious group originating from the Israelites or Hebrews of the ancient Middle East. The Jewish people and the religion of Judaism are strongly interrelated.

Zionist is to Jew, as Hamas is to Muslim.
Both political groups.

zionism is a literal talmudic belief system Its tennets are equality to god and the ability to over rule god, And the justification of doing any act against any non jew without predjudice to the act. And then forcibly aquiring world domination.

One could term it a political movement but the history and character are much more involved.

My suspicions from extensive readings of the sumerian clay tablets is that Sargon, the first king of the semites (formerly shemites), whos father was unknown was the zionist father. It seems the trouble with the jewish state began upon his rule and for the very reasons you may find in the talmud.

I think it goes without question that true Shemites would have been outraged at such oral traditions as they were, before they were finally penned in the 1st and 5th centuries which explains the continual quelling of inner rebellion until sargons grandson was defeated internally and by a northern army.

That pretty much set the stage for the wandering jewish nation. And it is interesting to note that sargons father was never revealed to him and his mother was a shemitic high priestess, which obviously isnt to say that they were both of shemitic heritage.

Sargon was put on a river in a reed basket and found , then raised by a farmer and eventually made king. he was the founder of akkad and the originator of the term hebrew , though egyptians knew them as habarews.

There is and has always been a division in judaism since that time and It all happens after the arrival of sargon. Looking on jewish maps of where shems and hams people settled a curious thought emerges , if shems people were first in babylon to the west of the peninsula and to the south , in fact they only had those two shore lines; And Hams people were in egypt and on the north and western shores of the peninsula; How is it that semites can lay claim to a land that was NEVER theirs in the first place?

More importantly What is the actual story, its obvious that even Jewish ancient history contradicts their own claims.

ShemsDisgrace

By vernon nielsen

To really understand the magnitude of all of this we need to understand where the world domination ideas come from , so we go to the oldest known texts that we can, the sumerian texts. The basic idea here is that shem felt so superior to his brothers (the rest of us) that he felt we were of a completely different culture and heritage and warranted ethnic cleansing at any and all costs, wether this covenant was established by Shem or sargon remains to be seen.

Chronology (a work in progress obviously)

•The anu descend from the heavens
•Hundreds of thousands of years of the rule of the gods
•In That time the birth of Zi-ud-sura (noah)
•the great Deluge leaving only ziusudra and Ca'ins people Surviving accordeing to sumerian texts.Both of whom are decended from Enlil and Enki All of whom are descended from ANU.
•The birth of shem,ham,and jephith from where the semite term comes, Shemites .
•the birth of sargon ,shems grandson , The researcher starts to get bogged down with confusing details regarding who sargon was. The jews claim one thing while archeological evidence shows another . but its interesting to note that Sargon is almost verbatim the story of moses. very exact in nature, a few details are different.
•the absolute destruction of sumerian culture.
•Sargons son quells rebellion for 9 years
•His brother takes over after his death
•sargons grandson is finally over thrown by his subjects and a northern invading army
•the shemites are without a land of their own and seek to infiltrate every society that will open its doors
•repeatedly,
•They are rejected even by egypt Where they had infiltrated to many positions of power and there were many Shemite pharoahs, Mind you this is the land of the son Ham according to the jews, who was cursed by ziusudra for not covering his nakedness, rather, telling the other sons about it.
•They take canaan from the canaanites, and are defeated in time and cast out , and after israel is removed they disperse bent on world domnination more than ever. canaan according to Shemites was also Ham's people.
•At some point the pivotal figure of Issah (egyptian) Jeshua(hebrew) jesus(modern) was born sending a message that the jews who are not jews are son's of the devil; For which is is promptly crucified. According to egyptian lore , the son of cleopatra and julius ceasar sent to india to study and remain safe after ceasars murder at the age of 12 or 13 under the care of mary of bethenia and josephus. there is in fact a tomb in India long held to be the tomb of a crucified man calling himself jesus.
•In france in 1489 a rabbi declares that jews must become christians on the surface in order to over throw christianity and the host countries, from that point on it is done in every country they could place themselves.
•Shems descendants infiltrate every countries power structure and over throw every non shemite kingdom with revolution.
•the european league of nations is formed as perscribed by convert jewis catholic immanuel kant and many years later
•The IMF and world bank is created by rothschild formerly known as bauer ala Amschel meyer bauer ; A german jewish money changer.
•As percribed in the 1489 letter to frech jews al christian churches are infiltrated.
•The roman catholic church is finally taken over after the turn of the 20th century.
•America is finally and firmly in control after the crash of 28.
•The United nations is founded in part by norman rockerfeller.
•the world social forum is founded by grejew an israeli transplant to brazil working heavilly with the unesco foundation of the United nations

Anatomy of a new world order

By vernon nielsen

League of Nations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

created by immanuel Kant

Immanuel Kant was born in 1724 in Königsberg, the capital of Prussia at that time. He was the fourth of eleven children (five of them reached adulthood). Baptized 'Emanuel', he changed his name to 'Immanuel'[3] after learning Hebrew.

the united nations

The UN was founded as a successor to the League of Nations, which was widely considered to have been ineffective in its role as an international governing body, as it had been unable to prevent World War II. The term "United Nations" was first used by Winston Churchill and Franklin D. Roosevelt,[2]

located on land donated by Norman Rockerfeller.

World social forum

Originated by Oded Grajew, the first WSF was held from 25 January to 30 January 2001 in Porto Alegre, Brazil, organized by many groups including the French Association for the Taxation of Financial Transactions for the Aid of Citizens (ATTAC). The WSF was sponsored, in part, by the Porto Alegre government, led by the Brazilian Worker's Party (PT).

Oded Grajew was born in Tel Aviv , Israel.

The hitler question

Hitler's Jewish Ancestry Exposed in the Warburg document
The Warburg Manuscript was published, and a immediate drive underway to put into effect a ban of the book
by the international Jerwy and the German Secret Police.
Many publishers, out of fear, recalled as many copies as they could.
The only mention of this book in America appeared in a short item in the
New York Times, November 24, 1933, page 14, column 2,
International Jewish and Nazis sources sought to suppress the report.
The Swiss magazine Der Sperber, published an account of this manuscript in 1936,
in Zurich, which carried a detailed report of the facts contained in this outlawed book.
It also circulated a book titled Spanischer Sommer,
which showed how the International Jews and Bankers had paved Hitler into power.
In 1933. Hitler expended a tremendous amount of money,
Concentration camps were first made to keep the ordinary german people who disaproved of this new german regime
And the International Jewish leaders used it to keep the Lesser Jews in fear of their lives and in line which back fired.
1 million or 6 million ! ( it was been stated at 1-2 million in the 1970's ) jews died in the concentraction camps and
60 million soldiers and civilians died world wide which death rate does not seem have the same kind of importance.
and if you question there history the Holocaust card is played
The Hidden "Puppteer Masters" Pulled The Strings Of This God Chosen .
It was with Hitler's knowledge and consent which gave Russia 70,000 square miles of Polish territory without a fight.
By 1940, the little countries of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia were safely in there hands.
Then Rumania, Northern Bukovania, and portions of Bessarabia fell .
Jews also served in the Nazi Police and Security Forces as Ghetto Police and Concentration Camp Guards .
Sources: William D. Montalbano, "The Jews in Hitler's Military," Los Angeles Times, December 24, 1996;
Tom Tugend, "Graduate student uncovers Jews who fought for Adolf Hitler," Jewish Telegraph Agency;
Lenni Brenner, "Zionism in the Age of the Dictators."
"The full Jews" served in the German Military with Adolf Hitler's.
Cambridge University researcher Bryan Rigg has traced the Jewish ancestry of more than 1200 of Hitler's Soldiers,
Including Two Field Marshals and Fifteen General ,Two Full General, Eight Lieutenant Generals,
Five Major Generals," Men Commanding up to 100,000 Troops."
In approximately 20 cases, Jewish Soldiers in the Nazi army were awarded German's Highest Military Honor,
The Knight's Cross.
One of these Jewish veterans is today an 82 year old resident of Northern Germany,
an observant Jew who served as a Captain and practiced his religion within the Wehrmacht throughout the war.
One of the Jewish Field Marshals was Erhard Milch, deputy to Luftwaffe Chief Hermann Goring.
Rumors of Mitch's Jewish identity circulated widely in Germany in the 1930s.
Goring when met with protests about having a Jew in the Nazi High Command,
Goring replied, " In I decide who is a Jew and who is Not "
Jews also served in the Nazi Police and Security Forces as Ghetto Police and Concentration Camp Guards.
Sources: William D. Montalbano, "The Jews in Hitler's Military," Los Angeles Times, December 24, 1996;
Tom Tugend, "Graduate student uncovers Jews who fought for Adolf Hitler," Jewish Telegraph Agency;
Lenni Brenner, "Zionism in the Age of the Dictators." Hitler's Rise To Power.
The well known and reputable Dutch publishing company of Van Holkema and Warendorf,
Published a book between Hitler and the International Jewish financier.
Hitlers Financeirs;
Sidney Warburg, of the New York firm of Kuhn, Loeb and Co..
The bank of Mendelssohn and Co., International Bankers in New York, Montagne,
Norman, Rockefeller, Carter and McDean,
Hitler began his rise to power in 1919, but he had a long and stormy road ahead,
Until In 1933., through the help of very powerful and wealthy Jews.
Some of these Jews used the excuse that they financed Hitler so that they could control him, but it is a known fact,

rydeon

19-03-2009, 07:42 AM

Powerful words Vern.

So you're saying that the old testiment is wrong and that the Sumerians and the Israelites are one and the same?

Interesting.

Jesus not being divine but of Caesars bloodline.

That's a first, wheres the facts and links on that one?

Or is it that the time-frame matches and is convenient?

It is said the Jesus went to study in India by some accounts, but the Cleopatra one is a new one for me!

verndewd

19-03-2009, 08:22 AM

check out the ring of power and if you have the time begin a study of sumerian translations. I would like the source materials for what the woman presented in the ring of power but evidence in india actually corroborates with that idea. being the son of cleopatra and julius ceasar doesnt eliminate him form being a jew.

Consider the flood story and the remaining survivors were the 8 on the ark, according to sumerian texts cains people survived as well. according to the sumerian account of cain , his people were deprived of the ability to grow beards as they were considered a form of regality.

so even according to jews were all one family, but they insist that they are a chosen people? where does that come from when noah favored 2 of his sons? and the semites represent one sons lineage. i do believe we are looking at a massive deception.

oiram

19-03-2009, 08:51 AM

Who, why or how the 9/11 crime was done is debatable, but the crime itself can not be denied. One simply has to see for himself the big hole in place of the towers.

The same goes for the Holocaust.

I dont care about the who, why or how. I need to see those remains of 6 million bodies to accept and admit that crime was commited.

I have yet to find that evidence.

Sending people in jail for failing to admit that a crime has been commited without presenting them any physical evidence of the victims, is a sure sign that something is just not right.I wished the people stop talking about the 6 million.

The Jews them self's revised the number only in Auschwitz down from 4.1 million to 1.5 million so we lost only in Auschwitz about 3 million.
So 1 + 1 = 2
Which means 6 million original lie minus 3 million revision in the year 1995 leaves you with 3 million.

So you will never ever find 6 million dead Jews. Full Stop!

Please ... There are many more revisions from other locations. Just search in some of the Threads here there is a lot of data about it.

Just face it Governments are big pig corrupt liars. Fact!

One more small rule once a liar always a liar!
http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/biggest_liar.jpg

Also I don't feel more or less pissed off; about a Jew which got murdered around 1943/45 then I am pissed about People & Children getting murdered in Gaza, Afghanistan, Iraq or people getting torchered to death in Guantanamo in year 2008.

With one difference the Jews & Americans today & all Government leaders world wide in year 2009 should know Fucking better; but to me it looks like they never learn shit & are murderers by association them self's & promoting activity's like this! People have to stop talking & act to prove there stand point. If they don't listen then I brake up all communication with the trouble makers & murderers the same counts for the Gaza people which are murdering.

That's how I know that they are all part of it by association.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/icons/icon2.gif Unless they oppose it, they will be blamed for it. If they defend it, they are part of it.

gebello

19-03-2009, 03:04 PM

And 9 years later you still doubt of a 9/11 set up? :eek: You need
to dig a little more deeper in the internet.:confused:

How did you come to they idea I doubt of a 9/11 set up ?

gebello

19-03-2009, 03:21 PM

The Jews them self's revised the number only in Auschwitz down from 4.1 million to 1.5 million so we lost only in Auschwitz about 3 million.
So 1 + 1 = 2
Which means 6 million original lie minus 3 million revision in the year 1995 leaves you with 3 million.

Then show me the 3 million bodies or remains.

Numbers dont mean anything to me if they are not supported by facts.

Even a 2000 degre cremated body leave an average of 3 pds of bones and teeth.

3 million cremated bodies leave about 9 million pounds of remains. These would require football field size mass graves that would themselves leave huge hills of excavated dirt.

32 teeth a body multiplied by 3 million gives 192 million teeth.

That evidence we should find around the camps. But in 60 years, nothing close to that has been found.

gebello

19-03-2009, 03:41 PM

A Jew is a member of the Jewish people, an ethnoreligious group originating from the Israelites or Hebrews of the ancient Middle East.

Definition of Ethnic Group

The term ethnic means of or pertaining to a group of people recognized as a class on the basis of certain distinctive characteristics such as religion, language, ancestry, culture or national origin.

So a Jew can only be recognized as a follower of judaïsm religion, because jews are form different nationalities, different origins of nationalities, speek different languages (most dont speek either yiddish or hebrew), different ancestry and different cultures.

The only people that could claim a descendency from the jews of the Bible are the Palestinians !

The people in Israel are Israelites and they are not all jews.

oiram

19-03-2009, 05:15 PM

Then show me the 3 million bodies or remains.
Numbers dont mean anything to me if they are not supported by facts.
Even a 2000 degre cremated body leave an average of 3 pds of bones and teeth.
3 million cremated bodies leave about 9 million pounds of remains. These would require football field size mass graves that would themselves leave huge hills of excavated dirt.
32 teeth a body multiplied by 3 million gives 192 million teeth.
That evidence we should find around the camps. But in 60 years, nothing close to that has been found.Oh don't get me wrong I am all the way with you on this!

I just have a allergy when this 6 million number comes up.

ickes views on the holocaust
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=608297

BREAKING NEWS! 6 million Jews
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52413

The Auschwitz 'Gas Chamber' Illusion
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15930

Holocaust Questions
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55537&highlight=Auschwitz

There was no holocaust
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22481&highlight=Auschwitz

More interesting shit on the Jew population!
Miracles do happen after all????

New York World Telegram Corporation.
"The World Almanac and Book of Facts for the year 1948", 1948: 572.
The 1934 World Almanac notes the following pre-WWII populations of Christians and jews:

The 1934 World Almanac notes the following pre-WWII populations of Christians and jews:

Christians 682,400,000

jews 15,315,000...... 1934

In 1948, after WWII, the 1949 World Almanac notes the following populations:

Christians 592,406,542

jews 15,753,638 ...... 1948 = +438638 the fucking Miracle

http://christianparty.net/jews1948.jpg (http://thisiszionism.blogspot.com/2008/03/almanacks-never-lie-jews-do.html)
http://thisiszionism.blogspot.com/2008/03/almanacks-never-lie-jews-do.html

Can they make up there freaking minds which one is wrong!
Yes I like to know which one is wrong not which one is right!
The concentration camp at Auschwitz-Birkenau in Poland was the largest -- at least 1.1 millionhttp://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/cryballl.gif Jews were killed there.

+438638http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/cryballl.gif the fucking Miracle

Ore this two 4 millionhttp://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/cryballl.gif and one with 1.5 million!http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/cryballl.gif
http://www.fpp.co.uk/ActionReport/AR14/images/AuschwFourMill.JPG http://www.fpp.co.uk/ActionReport/AR14/images/AuschwOneMill.JPG

http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/cryballlr.gifhttp://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/cryball.gif
lies,
lies, lies,
lies, lies, lies,
lies, lies, lies, lies,
lies, lies, lies, lies, lies,
lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies,
lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies,
lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies,
lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies,
lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies,
lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies,

Originally Posted by I just googled for this "jews never lie"
And I found this
Title: JEWS NEVER LIE (or steal!) NO!!!!

Yeah, Shakespear was wrong.....there is not sympathy anymore for the wandering jew..and trust me, the Jews of Israel are STILL wandering.

http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/objects/pages/ResponseDetails.jhtml?resNo=2815275&itemno=923205&cont=2

Foner's Spotlight article made the following assertions regarding the number of people killed at the camp:
Like most Americans, since his youth Cole had been instructed in the "irrefutable fact" that homicidal gassings had taken place at Auschwitz. The number of those so executed - also declared irrefutable - was 4.1 million.

Then came the Leuchter Report in 1988. This was followed by a "re-evaluation" of the total deaths at Auschwitz (down to 1.1 million). As a budding historian - and a Jew - Cole was intrigued.

Previous to 1992, anyone who publicly doubted the 4.1 million "gassing" deaths at Auschwitz was labeled an anti-Semite, neo-nazi skinhead (at the very least). Quietly, because of revisionist findings, the official figure was lowered to 1.1 million. No mention of that missing 3 million.

http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/auschwitz/auschwitz-faq-09.html

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/Leuchter/index.html

Could this be where the 6 million number originated? Oct 1919
they somehow love the number 6 6 6
http://incogman.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/origin-of-the-six-million.gif
INSTANCES OF THE USE OF THE 6 MILLION FIGURE:

New York Times, May 7, 1920: “Jewish war sufferers in Central and Eastern Europe, where six millions face horrifying conditions of famine, disease and death.”

New York Times, May 5, 1920, p. 9: “…To save six million men and women in Eastern Europe from extermination by hunger and disease.”

New York Times, May 5, 1920, p. 19: “Six million starving, fever-stricken sufferers in war-torn Europe appeal to us.”

New York Times, May 3, 1920, p. 11: “Your help is needed to save the lives of six million people in Eastern and Central Europe.”

New York Times, May 2, 1920, p. 1: “…Six million human beings, without food, shelter, clothing or medical treatment.”

New York Times, May 1, 1920, p. 8: “But the lives of 6,000,000 human beings are waiting for an answer.”

New York Times, Dec. 3, 1919, p. 19: “nothing on earth except a miracle can prevent the death by freezing and starvation of from 5,000,000 to 10,000,000 people in Europe and the Middle East this winter. …atrocious Jewish massacre.”

New York Times, Nov. 12, 1919, p. 7: “…tragically unbelievable poverty, starvation and disease about 6,000,000 souls, or half the Jewish population of the earth. …a million children and five million parents and elders.

The American Hebrew [right], Oct. 31, 1919, pp. 582-.: “From across the sea, six million men and women call to us for help. …six million human beings… Six million men and women are dying. …in the threatened holocaust of human life. …six million famished men and women. Six million men and women are dying…” The Birdman on the Origins of the Six Million

New York Times, Sept. 29, 1919, p. 7: “tragically unbelievable poverty, starvation and disease… about 6,000,000 souls, or half the Jewish population of the earth.”

New York Times, Aug. 10, 1917: “Germans Let Jews Die. Women and Children in Warsaw Starving to Death… Jewish mothers, mothers of mercy, feel happy to see their nursing babies die; at least they are through with their suffering.”

New York Times, Jan. 14, 1915, p. 3: “In the world today there are about 13,000,000 Jews, of whom more than 6,000,000 are in the heart of the war zone; Jews whose lives are at stake and who today are subjected to every manner of suffering and sorrow […].”

But let us go one step further back in time. In 1900, Rabbi Stephen Wise made the following statement before Jewish welfare organizations in the USA: “there are 6,000,000 living, bleeding, suffering arguments in favor of Zionism.”

It would seem that we are dealing with a constant in Jewish sufferink, the figure of 6 million.

Does this not strike anyone as, at least… Interesting? Intriguing? Suspicious?

http://incogman.wordpress.com/2008/07/18/todays-sad-holocaust-story-iii/
No wonder all are sick of all these lies
What ever they say but for me 1 + 1 = 2