Masonic Vandalism at Giant's Causeway

[endlessvista]

They just can't help themselves can they...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3116/2601585930_23b0a958c6.jpg?v=0

Giant Step for Freemasonry

When a Southport Freemason visited the Giant’s Causeway in Northern Ireland he came across a piece of 125 year old Masonic graffiti.
Christopher J Brooks of West Lancashire Lodge, No. 1403, was working in Ulster and during a day off paid a visit to the famous landmark. Seating himself on one of the perfectly formed hexagonal rocks to have a bite of lunch he saw, carved in the rock next to him, some graffiti dated 1878.
He said: ‘Perhaps John Orr was a local Freemason wanting to make his mark, but whoever he was, he was obviously extremely proud to be a member of our fantastic organisation and even in 1878 was not embarrassed to fly the flag. I’m not suggesting for one minute that we go around defacing natural phenomena, but let us have more of telling the world about ourselves and how proud we are to be Freemasons.’

http://www.freemasonrytoday.com/24/p03.php

[grandsecretary]

They just can't help themselves can they...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3116/2601585930_23b0a958c6.jpg?v=0

Agreed. Inexcusable. Graffiti is a blight on society.

[brainfreeze]

Agreed. Inexcusable. Graffiti is a blight on society.

Unless it's a Banksy :p

[armoured_amazon]

Unless it's a Banksy :p

:D

[grandsecretary]

Unless it's a Banksy :p

I love his work but I dissaprove of graffiti.

[mike martin]

I personally don't like graffitti but I do have to admit to finding the old stuff fascinating, mainly because it has actually been done with hammer and chisel. I've seen really old stuff at both Dover Castle and Eltham Palace going back to the 1600s, none of it Masonic btw.

I suppose the only thing that can be said in "defence" of that long-dead Freemason is that the "Causeway" probably wasn't a tourist spot when he did it. There's graffitti (dating back to the 1800s) all over Robin Hood's Stride and Arbor Low in Derbyshire but they only became popular with tourists about 40 years ago.

Mike

[element]

Didn't you know? The Freemasons are promoting graffiti to distract the people.
They see all kinds of masonic symbols on the street walls and get distracted. The cat is out of the bag and may the good guys win! :D

[kingmonkey]

Not all graffiti is bad:

http://www.core77.com/reactor/images/04.07_images/04.07_daim.jpg

[grandsecretary]

Not all graffiti is bad:

http://www.core77.com/reactor/images/04.07_images/04.07_daim.jpg

Is this genuine graffiti, or graffiti style art? Was it painted with the permission of the owner of the building or studio?

Graffiti, as an art form, contains a political or anarchic statement. It is a visual and public rejection of the entire concept of ownership/capitalism.

I admire the expression of artistic talent but dissaprove of what is IMHO vandalism in the name of art.

[kingmonkey]

Is this genuine graffiti, or graffiti style art? Was it painted with the permission of the owner of the building or studio?

Graffiti, as an art form, contains a political or anarchic statement. It is a visual and public rejection of the entire concept of ownership/capitalism.

I admire the expression of artistic talent but dissaprove of what is IMHO vandalism in the name of art.

It is real graffiti, I think this is probabaly a legal piece. There's a fine line between art and vandalism in the graffiti art world, and i think talent has a lot to do with it.if it's crap, it's vandalism :p. But yeah, most of the time it's just vandals wrecking other people's property.

[grandsecretary]

It is real graffiti, I think this is probabaly a legal piece. There's a fine line between art and vandalism in the graffiti art world, and i think talent has a lot to do with it.if it's crap, it's vandalism :p. But yeah, most of the time it's just vandals wrecking other people's property.

Most of the time, but artists like Banksy have so much talent. What a pity that it cannot be harnessed and, of course, it cannot. It harbours the seeds of its own destruction, like so many things in this life.

[marpat]

How can you vandalise a natural rock formation? vandalism is the destruction of property but do these rocks belong to anybody?

[tusme]

How can you vandalise a natural rock formation? vandalism is the destruction of property but do these rocks belong to anybody?
Hi Marpat...!!

You're abit of a joke sometimes, you know...!! :eek:

Yesterday, you couldn't give damned about that "Peace Boat" being rammed by the Israeli naval boats...now, who does the International Waters belong to...hey!? :mad: :)

And, ain't that "Peace Boat", private property...!?

Come on mate...it's nearly 2009, lets have some consistency going...ok!? :D

Cheers

[kingmonkey]

It harbours the seeds of its own destruction, like so many things in this life.

True. Creation and destruction run through existence hand in hand.

[grandsecretary]

How can you vandalise a natural rock formation? vandalism is the destruction of property but do these rocks belong to anybody?

Everybody and nobody.

[marpat]

Hi Marpat...!!

You're abit of a joke sometimes, you know...!! :eek:

Yesterday, you couldn't give damned about that "Peace Boat" being rammed by the Israeli naval boats...now, who does the International Waters belong to...hey!? :mad: :)

And, ain't that "Peace Boat", private property...!?

Come on mate...it's nearly 2009, lets have some consistency going...ok!? :D

Cheers

Is that mean to be a respone to this thread or an attack?

[kweli]

Everybody and nobody.

The Giant's Causeway is owned and managed by the National Trust.

[grandsecretary]

The Giant's Causeway is owned and managed by the National Trust.

I made a philosophical point. We are born, we live, we die, we own nothing.

[tusme]

Is that mean to be a respone to this thread or an attack?
Hi Marpat,

Finally...!? :)

Hmm, well, you make of it what you want...you've still not answered my question...? :confused:

Cheers

[marpat]

Hi Marpat,

Finally...!? :)

Hmm, well, you make of it what you want...you've still not answered my question...? :confused:

Cheers

What question

[tusme]

What question
Hi Marpat,

Hmm, and still your hypocrisy persists...!? :eek: ;)

Well, at least you're being consistent with that rate count of 1 per day, going steadily...

I'll have a look again tomorrow...would be interesting to know, how long you're capable of maintaining this amazing streak..!? :D

Cheers

[marpat]

Hi Marpat,

Hmm, and still your hypocrisy persists...!? :eek: ;)

Well, at least you're being consistent with that rate count of 1 per day, going steadily...

I'll have a look again tomorrow...would be interesting to know, how long you're capable of maintaining this amazing streak..!? :D

Cheers

What a loser you are. I asked what question did you ask and this is your response.

You try and attack me personally but with what? I think you attack is nothing but a refelction of your own weakness.

It seems you are racking up a count of at least one stupid post a day. Keep it up. I'll check tommorrow to see if you continue.

[tusme]

What a loser you are. I asked what question did you ask and this is your response.

You try and attack me personally but with what? I think you attack is nothing but a refelction of your own weakness.

It seems you are racking up a count of at least one stupid post a day. Keep it up. I'll check tommorrow to see if you continue.
Hi Marpat,

Hmm..."loser", did you say...!? :eek: :)

If thats your logic...then you've just answer my question...thankyou!! ;) :D

Cheers

[boots]

Hi Marpat...!!

You're abit of a joke sometimes, you know...!! :eek:

Yesterday, you couldn't give damned about that "Peace Boat" being rammed by the Israeli naval boats...now, who does the International Waters belong to...hey!? :mad: :)

And, ain't that "Peace Boat", private property...!?

Come on mate...it's nearly 2009, lets have some consistency going...ok!? :D

Cheers

Coulnd't give a damn about the peace boat being rammed.:mad:

Your a sick bastard marpat.

[marpat]

Hi Marpat,

Hmm..."loser", did you say...!? :eek: :)

If thats your logic...then you've just answer my question...thankyou!! ;) :D

Cheers

And you have given me all I need to know

Thank you

[marpat]

Coulnd't give a damn about the peace boat being rammed.:mad:

Your a sick bastard marpat.

I never did say anything of the sort. Please find a quote of me saying I didnt care. The only thing I said on the matter is that the ship probably used ramming rather than weapons as it would cause less loss of life. Not like you to act in such an irrational manner is it :rolleyes:

You're a perverse word twisting, manipulative lying bastard. What more can I say?

[tusme]

And you have given me all I need to know

Thank you
Hi Marpat,

Fine, I'll let you off...next time though, make better use of whatever it is I've given you...please!? ;) :D

Cheers

[marpat]

Hi Marpat,

Fine, I'll let you off...next time though, make better use of whatever it is I've given you...please!? ;) :D

Cheers

What are you going on about now? and what is this question you reckoned you asked me?

[lycan]

How can you vandalise a natural rock formation? vandalism is the destruction of property but do these rocks belong to anybody?

Very true......
The rock dont belong to anyone. But im sure there is a law that states a person can't do what was done.

[kweli]

Very true......
The rock dont belong to anyone. But im sure there is a law that states a person can't do what was done.

I'll repeat - The Giants Causeway is owned and managed by the National Trust. (aren't most historical sites?) In fact they've only recently acquired a big chunk of land surrounding the Causeway too - after a controversial legal wrangle with the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) and a private developer.

The 2007-2008 controversy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant's_Causeway#The_2007-2008_controversy

[element]

How can you vandalise a natural rock formation? vandalism is the destruction of property but do these rocks belong to anybody?

In my country you are not allowed to take rocks from nature, not even for your garden decoration.

[grandsecretary]

If we approve of this behaviour it will spoil our natural heritage. It makes me quite angry.

[kweli]

In my country you are not allowed to take rocks from nature, not even for your garden decoration.

I believe they brought similar laws in here too; (UK) I know it's an offence to take sea shells from the beach.

[grandsecretary]

I believe they brought similar laws in here too; (UK) I know it's an offence to take sea shells from the beach.

Theft is also a major problem. England has a particular problem with people driving into the countryside removing stone from dry walls. This has changed the look and traditions of the countryside because when these stones are replaced the farmers use cement and do not need the craft of the dry stone wallers.

My neighbour had a theft last summer. The entire stone roof from his garage and workshop. Now, no doubt, someone has a new York stone kitchen floor.

We must not encourage vandalism and theft of this kind.

[endlessvista]

The Giant's Causeway is owned and managed by the National Trust.

But it belongs to all the people of the earth.

[lookfar]

I believe they brought similar laws in here too; (UK) I know it's an offence to take sea shells from the beach.

OMG is that really an offence now?:eek:

I don't like to see any sort of vandalism done to these places it's totally unnecessary imo. Although I have to agree with earlier posts, Banksy is in a class of his own, excellent!!:D

[kweli]

Theft is also a major problem. England has a particular problem with people driving into the countryside removing stone from dry walls. This has changed the look and traditions of the countryside because when these stones are replaced the farmers use cement and do not need the craft of the dry stone wallers.

My neighbour had a theft last summer. The entire stone roof from his garage and workshop. Now, no doubt, someone has a new York stone kitchen floor.

We must not encourage vandalism and theft of this kind.

Agreed. And yes, I'm fully aware of the impact of theft from dry stone walls. I'm a frequent visitor to the Yorkshire Dales & Cumbria, i adore it up there. It's a shame it is. Theft of traditionally quarried stone paving slabs (ie york stone) is also a big problem around these parts.



But it belongs to all the people of the earth.

In an ideal world, maybe.

[barney_rubble]

They just can't help themselves can they...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3116/2601585930_23b0a958c6.jpg?v=0


I do not know for sure but this "graffitti: is from 1878.
I am guessing that is long before it was "protected" by any government body(I may be wrong here).

If the above is true then the mason in question "John Orr" did nothing illegal.
And now in fact his graffitti is now under protection by the National Trust as a historical site.

[kweli]

I do not know for sure but this "graffitti: is from 1878.
I am guessing that is long before it was "protected" by any government body(I may be wrong here).

If the above is true then the mason in question "John Orr" did nothing illegal.
And now in fact his graffitti is now under protection by the National Trust as a historical site.

No, you're probably correct but does that make it right? Just because it wasn't illegal back then?

[localidiot]

Archaeologists find a good deal of graffiti on monuments and structures from history, it gives a decent idea of the people at the time.
Of course, graffiti on the structures now is illegal.
I imagine at some point, the graffiti you see around town will be prized by future archaeologists as well.

[lycan]

I do not know for sure but this "graffitti: is from 1878.
I am guessing that is long before it was "protected" by any government body(I may be wrong here).

If the above is true then the mason in question "John Orr" did nothing illegal.
And now in fact his graffitti is now under protection by the National Trust as a historical site.

Thats a other way os say what i tryed....lol

[marpat]

No, you're probably correct but does that make it right? Just because it wasn't illegal back then?


Who is to say a mason carved it into the rock? what if an anti-mason done it just to create tension for the masons? I think we have a conspiracy against the masons here. The evidence is the carving that is intended to attract criticism to the masons :D

[tusme]

Who is to say a mason carved it into the rock? what if an anti-mason done it just to create tension for the masons? I think we have a conspiracy against the masons here. The evidence is the carving that is intended to attract criticism to the masons :D
Hi Marpat,

You're not only making a mockery of yourself but also of Masonry...!! :eek:

I've been to the Giant's Causeway, a truly amazing place...!!

And if you knew anything about the Giant's Causeway, then the logic, that "the carving is intended to attract criticism to the masons"...is quite absurd!?

I'm really starting to worry about you now, Marpat...really, I am...!? :confused:

Cheers

[grandsecretary]

Who is to say a mason carved it into the rock? what if an anti-mason done it just to create tension for the masons? I think we have a conspiracy against the masons here. The evidence is the carving that is intended to attract criticism to the masons :D

Clearly carved by a Mason who left his "mark" or what today would be called a "tag". This was not long ago, and IMHO not acceptable behaviour. This stone was carved in 1878. My grandfather was born in 1876. I am 60 years of age.

[tusme]

Clearly carved by a Mason who left his "mark" or what today would be called a "tag". This was not long ago, and IMHO not acceptable behaviour. This stone was carved in 1878. My grandfather was born in 1876. I am 60 years of age.
Hi Grandsecretary,

Are you and Marpat, one and the same...!? :eek:

I might of-course be wrong, but something just don't add up with you two...!? :D

Cheers

[grandsecretary]

Hi Grandsecretary,

Are you and Marpat, one and the same...!? :eek:

I might of-course be wrong, but something just don't add up with you two...!? :D

Cheers

I am only permitted by my employers to post on forums under my own name and job title in order that any statements may be traced and properly attributed. It also allows anyone who wishes to, to make easy contact with me.

Peter Clatworthy
Grand Secretary
Grand Lodge of All England

[tusme]

I am only permitted by my employers to post on forums under my own name and job title in order that any statements may be traced and properly attributed. It also allows anyone who wishes to, to make easy contact with me.

Peter Clatworthy
Grand Secretary
Grand Lodge of All England
Hi Grandsecretary,

Cheers, I appreciate your sincerity...didn't mean of-course also, for you to reveal all your personal details...!? Apologies for that...!?

However, you do realise, despite what you've just done, does not answer my question...!?

It's OK though...it don't matter, either way, whether you & Marpat are 1 and the same or not...!? ;) :)

You might want to have a word with that Marpat fella though...he seems intent on doing "damage" to your cause...!? :D

Cheers

[keystone]

From where I sit the :D at the end of Marpat's post kinda says he was having a bit of a joke.

[tusme]

From where I sit the :D at the end of Marpat's post kinda says he was having a bit of a joke.
Hi Keystone,

Thanks...hmm, from where you're sitting, you are absolutely right...!? :eek: :D

I dunno...perhaps, it was an unintentional intentional mistake...!? :D ...if you know what I mean...!? ;) :)

Cheers Keystone ;)

[marpat]

Hi Marpat,

You're not only making a mockery of yourself but also of Masonry...!! :eek:

I've been to the Giant's Causeway, a truly amazing place...!!

And if you knew anything about the Giant's Causeway, then the logic, that "the carving is intended to attract criticism to the masons"...is quite absurd!?

I'm really starting to worry about you now, Marpat...really, I am...!? :confused:

Cheers


Perhaps you might benefit from a sense of humour.

[marpat]

Hi Grandsecretary,

Are you and Marpat, one and the same...!? :eek:

I might of-course be wrong, but something just don't add up with you two...!? :D

Cheers

Yes you are wrong, again.

I think the real problem is your adding.

[tusme]

Yes you are wrong, again.

I think the real problem is your adding.
Oh GOD, here we go...!? :rolleyes: :D

Hi Marpat

I wasn't wrong, at all...go back and re-read your post...without that fatal smiley though!? :D

You owe Keystone a pint...but for his keen eyesight...:D...it will remain a mystery whether ol' Marpat would've shown up to defend himself...? :D

I might have a problem "adding", as you say...but, for some reason or other, you're "gaffe" prone...!? ;) :)

Take it easy mate...!? ;)

Cheers

[marpat]

Oh GOD, here we go...!? :rolleyes: :D

Hi Marpat

I wasn't wrong, at all...go back and re-read your post...without that fatal smiley though!? :D

You owe Keystone a pint...but for his keen eyesight...:D...it will remain a mystery whether ol' Marpat would've shown up to defend himself...? :D

I might have a problem "adding", as you say...but, for some reason or other, you're "gaffe" prone...!? ;) :)

Take it easy mate...!? ;)

Cheers

See you're still talking shite.

[tusme]

Perhaps you might benefit from a sense of humour.
Hi Marpat,

Sorry, I missed this post...;)

Hmm, not sure about "benefit"...having "a sense of humour", for me anyway, can be abit tiresome, sometimes... :)

Cheers

[tusme]

See you're still talking shite.
:D...the Truth though, ain't it...!? :D

[marpat]

Hi Marpat,

Sorry, I missed this post...;)

Hmm, not sure about "benefit"...having "a sense of humour", for me anyway, can be abit tiresome, sometimes... :)

Cheers


No shit, it doesnt show. Maybe thats why you are a bit tiresome.

[tusme]

No shit, it doesnt show. Maybe thats why you are a bit tiresome.
:D...hmm, you'll be pleased to know, I'm shattered...but, it ain't down to you of-course...!? :D

Perhaps it's time for a break, from the forum...let you get on with your games... ;)

Take it easy, Marpat ;) :)

Cheers