Fu*# Freemasons!...

[thetonic]

Stop worrying about fucking Freemasons!!!

They have nothing to teach you!

You are being misled

Look inside for the answers

Look at what 'BanFreekmasons' accomplishes.. NOTHING !

This account is pure distraction, he is obviously no where near against the freemasons, if he/she is then they are sorely mistaken in their approach/methods... more than likely working in conjunction to lure new candidates...

Where does all the research that you people do go? 9/10 threads on this sub-forum are by BanFreekmasons with absolutely shit to say!!!! CONTROL OPPOSITION # 1 rule in co-intel..the sooner you realize the better


WAKE THE FUCK UP

[localidiot]

Hm....
1. Agreed.
2. Depends on what you consider worth learning. I find Morals and Dogman entertaining, as well as fairly insightful.
3. About many things most likely, which ones in particular are you refering to?
4. Some things require a teacher.
5. That's debatable, though he doesn't seem to be able to affect opinions one way or the other, he's certainly added more stuff on top of a old pile.
6. Most anti-masons have a beef with Masonry, some ranging from somewhat valid to imaginary. Not knowing his reasons on the matter, I can't state wether he's genuine or not.
Since he's chaning no one's opinions, he's not attracting anyone more, and anyone who already dislikes Masonry just slaps him on thr back.

[ban freekmasons]

Stop worrying about fucking Freemasons!!!

They have nothing to teach you!

You are being misled

Look inside for the answers

Look at what 'BanFreekmasons' accomplishes.. NOTHING !

This account is pure distraction, he is obviously no where near against the freemasons, if he/she is then they are sorely mistaken in their approach/methods... more than likely working in conjunction to lure new candidates...

Where does all the research that you people do go? 9/10 threads on this sub-forum are by BanFreekmasons with absolutely shit to say!!!! CONTROL OPPOSITION # 1 rule in co-intel..the sooner you realize the better


WAKE THE FUCK UP

you would have to be a complete idiot to ignore the criminal masons or even listen to an invisible mason who hides behind the alias "thetonic"
come thetonic, lets have an open, transparent discussion on this forum.

tut tut, you are obviously pissed off at all of the revealing research and truth about the evil freekmasons.

as for none accomplishment, you are soooooo wrong. we are all doing brilliantly as you shall read next year. freemasonry is finished.

acp aka ban freekmasons aka joe aka wtc aka ljpr, etc is a whole collective of victims and truthies and good guys who are real physical people, unlike you and your kind. on with the show, lots more to come.

[kenny_bubb]

Roll on 2009, Joe. Judgement day shall soon be here and hopefully you'll be judge, jury and executioner.
I have made a nice packed lunch in readiness for the revolution!

[marpat]

you would have to be a complete idiot to ignore the criminal masons or even listen to an invisible mason who hides behind the alias "thetonic"
come thetonic, lets have an open, transparent discussion on this forum.

tut tut, you are obviously pissed off at all of the revealing research and truth about the evil freekmasons.

as for none accomplishment, you are soooooo wrong. we are all doing brilliantly as you shall read next year. freemasonry is finished.

acp aka ban freekmasons aka joe aka wtc aka ljpr, etc is a whole collective of victims and truthies and good guys who are real physical people, unlike you and your kind. on with the show, lots more to come.

Can I buy some pot from you?

[kenny_bubb]

The only pots Joe owns contain evidence, overwhelming evidence of the Masonic conspiracy which threatens the very world we live in.

He also has a pot full of acorns recovered from the engines of motor cars, and a pot of Masonic carrots.

He stores the pot of Masonic carrots in a cool, dark place to extend shelf-life.
Not just a crusader for the just cause, our Joe, but also a wise storer of vegetables.

[eppyone]

The only pots Joe owns contain evidence, overwhelming evidence of the Masonic conspiracy which threatens the very world we live in.

He also has a pot full of acorns recovered from the engines of motor cars, and a pot of Masonic carrots.

He stores the pot of Masonic carrots in a cool, dark place to extend shelf-life.
Not just a crusader for the just cause, our Joe, but also a wise storer of vegetables.

ROFLMAO!!!!! I'd forgotten about the crazy ass acorn thing...thanks for reminding me!:p

[disconnex]

Stop worrying about fucking Freemasons!!!

They have nothing to teach you!

You are being misled

Look inside for the answers




I agree that they have nothing to teach, but by contrasting what the controlling govts. of the world are doing to society, and what the "enlightened" masons do with the rest of the masonic heard is very similar. You are not going to get a straight answer out of any mason on this message board. They are probably just good hearted people joining a group with no ill intentions. But, the ones at the top as described by the masonic pyramid are the true evil players. You'll never get one of them to log onto an internet website and debate secret societies. So yes it is stupid to argue back and fourth with masons on this site about them being anybody who knows anything.

[lightindarkness]

LOL, the townspeople are turning against each other!

This is a new one - apparently Joe & Co. are now actually masons in disguise? Really?

Just shows you how quickly the anti's will turn on each other. Its like the Salem Witch Trials, with hysterical people running around and screaming "WWWWWWWWWWWIIIIITTTCHHHH!" except now its "MMMMAASSSSOOONNN!"

[element]

Joe would make a great tabloid writer.:)

[meksar]

The Freemasons are bi-sexual satanically inspired lizard brained luciferians. They keep a class system to keep their "brotherhood" in a pyramid power structure so the vast majority of initiates are in ignorance of the true agenda. Many Masons are merely pawns in a game they don't understand, they are doing the bidding of some the most dangerous and outright evil people who hide behind closed doors.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=I3oGb2klA1A

[lightindarkness]

The Freemasons are bi-sexual satanically inspired lizard brained luciferians. They keep a class system to keep their "brotherhood" in a pyramid power structure so the vast majority of initiates are in ignorance of the true agenda. Many Masons are merely pawns in a game they don't understand, they are doing the bidding of some the most dangerous and outright evil people who hide behind closed doors.

:rolleyes:

You bought the kool aid whole sale didn't you?

Its too bad you didn't bother to do 5 minutes of research before believing anti-masonic propaganda. Else you would know that the the FOUNDATIONAL POINT of freemasonry is that all its members ARE EQUAL and there are no ranks - everyone meets on the level.

I think I would know if I were doing someone else's bidding, and yet I've never once been ordered to do anything by any mason. By the way, your hysterical youtube video is about the Illuminati - wrong group.

[disconnex]

:rolleyes:

I think I would know if I were doing someone else's bidding, and yet I've never once been ordered to do anything by any mason.

The point is that by you not knowing anything, it's a blanket party for those who do. I would like to think that when I was in the Army I was really serving the best interest of the people, but in actuality I was serving the war mongers of this world so their pockets could get fatter. And no you wouldn't know if you were doing someone elses bidding until it's too late. You've bought into their system and beliefs, in a way you've been brain washed.

[lightindarkness]

The point is that by you not knowing anything, it's a blanket party for those who do. I would like to think that when I was in the Army I was really serving the best interest of the people, but in actuality I was serving the war mongers of this world so their pockets could get fatter. And no you wouldn't know if you were doing someone elses bidding until it's too late. You've bought into their system and beliefs, in a way you've been brain washed.

The problem is this doesn't work.

Freemasonry is not the army, its not formed like the army, and its not organized like the army. The army has a public chain of command with ranks and everything. And you do take direct orders in the army on a every day basis - orders continually come down and tell you do things, people directly tell you to do something - you just may not know who made the order. I have never ever been ordered to do anything by any mason at any time.

There is one exception, last week the WM asked me to pass the beer when we were at a bar. I am quite sure that wasn't part of a NWO plot.

[disconnex]

The problem is this doesn't work.

Freemasonry is not the army, its not formed like the army, and its not organized like the army. The army has a public chain of command with ranks and everything. And you do take direct orders in the army on a every day basis - orders continually come down and tell you do things, people directly tell you to do something - you just may not know who made the order. I have never ever been ordered to do anything by any mason at any time.

There is one exception, last week the WM asked me to pass the beer when we were at a bar. I am quite sure that wasn't part of a NWO plot.

I love your attempts at misdirection. I never said that the freemasons are like the Army. What was implied was that I was innocently and nievely believing in something that wasn't what it said it was. I don't think you're evil, or illuminati, hell I don't even believe in reptiles walking this planet changing shape and dictating the outcome of our world.

All I'm saying is that you're part of a group, following their systems and traditions. You've bought into it. What you see is simple and innocent, there is no evidence to support all these crazy peoples claims of conspiracy. I believe you. But what makes you think that you are anyone who deserves to know what the bad seeds of your fraternity are doing?

[lightindarkness]

I love your attempts at misdirection. I never said that the freemasons are like the Army. What was implied was that I was innocently and nievely believing in something that wasn't what it said it was. I don't think you're evil, or illuminati, hell I don't even believe in reptiles walking this planet changing shape and dictating the outcome of our world.

All I'm saying is that you're part of a group, following their systems and traditions. You've bought into it. What you see is simple and innocent, there is no evidence to support all these crazy peoples claims of conspiracy. I believe you. But what makes you think that you are anyone who deserves to know what the bad seeds of your fraternity are doing?

I love your attempts of disinformation.

You directly attempted to compare how I could somehow be ordered to do something with your experiences in the army. I called you out on it, because it was a completely invalid comparison.

Yet again I must point out that THERE IS NO DIRECT ORDER GIVEN TO ME IN FREEMASONRY AT ANY TIME. I can't do something believing I'm doing something for the "good" if I'm never given anything to do.

Its not true I've bought into anything. I am perfectly capable of leaving freemasonry at any time if I ever saw anything I didn't agree with. Just because you join an organization doesn't mean that you somehow are now incapable of making reasonable judgments about what you see goes on.

I see what actually goes on, so I know there is nothing to support all these crazy claims of conspiracy. I also am, outside of being a member, quite capable of doing the research and looking at the evidence - which yet again suggests there is no evidence for any of the claims I've come across thus far.

There is nothing for bad seeds of the fraternity to do because there is no power for them to use. What are they going to do, deviously run a fish fry? Sure evil people could join any group, but they would be rather dumb evil people to think they could get away with anything in freemasonry.

[localidiot]

The Freemasons are bi-sexual satanically inspired lizard brained luciferians. They keep a class system to keep their "brotherhood" in a pyramid power structure so the vast majority of initiates are in ignorance of the true agenda. Many Masons are merely pawns in a game they don't understand, they are doing the bidding of some the most dangerous and outright evil people who hide behind closed doors.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=I3oGb2klA1A

Wow, that has to be both the most original, even if you are just speaking someone else' words, giving them credence for some reason I'm likely to never understand, and weirdest belief of Masonry I've heard to date.

[eppyone]

What was implied was that I was innocently and nievely believing in something that wasn't what it said it was.
Don't assume that we are all that naive

[jojo]

the the FOUNDATIONAL POINT of freemasonry is that all its members ARE EQUAL and there are no ranks - everyone meets on the level.

.

Hi, just a question.

I was lead to believe that the freemasons had various degrees or levels within its structure. (33)

So is this not true?


thanks

[disconnex]

I love your attempts of disinformation.

You directly attempted to compare how I could somehow be ordered to do something with your experiences in the army. I called you out on it, because it was a completely invalid comparison.

Yet again I must point out that THERE IS NO DIRECT ORDER GIVEN TO ME IN FREEMASONRY AT ANY TIME. I can't do something believing I'm doing something for the "good" if I'm never given anything to do.

Its not true I've bought into anything. I am perfectly capable of leaving freemasonry at any time if I ever saw anything I didn't agree with. Just because you join an organization doesn't mean that you somehow are now incapable of making reasonable judgments about what you see goes on.

I see what actually goes on, so I know there is nothing to support all these crazy claims of conspiracy. I also am, outside of being a member, quite capable of doing the research and looking at the evidence - which yet again suggests there is no evidence for any of the claims I've come across thus far.

There is nothing for bad seeds of the fraternity to do because there is no power for them to use. What are they going to do, deviously run a fish fry? Sure evil people could join any group, but they would be rather dumb evil people to think they could get away with anything in freemasonry.

I'm not going to get into a he said she said with you because if you read what I said, you repeated what I was implying. The freemasons themselves could possibly claim no power as an fraternity, but as in any organization, those who are out for wrong can use their group connections through organization to achive power. It can happen in any group. Hell, the Pokemon fan group could be corrupted by misdirected anime fans misappropiating funds for their own profit.

It can happen in any organized group, but usualy in higher levels. I'm not saying that I have definite proof of evil in the freemasons. I guess it's just coincidence when you have so many powerful people all connected to the same "fraternity". Why would one ever assume that just because someone is powerful, the fact that they are a mason would keep them from abusing their connections. That's the simplest assumption.

[disconnex]

Don't assume that we are all that naive

No why would I. This world is full of open minded free thinking individuals that would never be dupped by those with power. It rarely ever happens to anyone, just look at this last free election we had.

[mike martin]

I was lead to believe that the freemasons had various degrees or levels within its structure. (33)

So is this not true?

I'm glad that someone else is paying attention around here:D

You are quite right! There are Degrees/Ranks and Officers, however the point that was being made is that those ranks only have any effect while in the Lodge. For example when I see the present Master of my Lodge outside of it, I don't call him Worshipful Bro. Ian, I call him Ian. He also has no control over what I do excepet when in the Lodge, 5 times a year.

That was the point about military ranks they have power over other soldiers all of the time except when "on leave".

Mike

[lightindarkness]

Hi, just a question.

I was lead to believe that the freemasons had various degrees or levels within its structure. (33)

So is this not true?


thanks

Mike answered this already and I am in agreement with him, but just to expand upon what he has already said:

In short, you were mislead. The conspiracy obsession over 33 degrees is something that doesn't exist within freemasonry. Theorists go crazy over it because its the only major active side order with high numbers, and they assume without doing the research that high numbers = power = authority.

The Scottish Rite, which does the 33rd degree, is simply one side order. There are others, the other major one is the York Rite, which has just as much power/authority/rank as members of the Scottish Rite. And both members of these bodies have the same power/rank/authority as a 3rd degree master mason. That is the height of masonic rank - the 3rd degree. The side orders simply build upon the lessons of the 3rd degree - they are optional orders that many people never join. In fact the blue lodge (the first three degrees) has far more power than any side order, since at any time they could derecognize them and make them irregular/clandestine freemasonry.

[lightindarkness]

I'm not going to get into a he said she said with you because if you read what I said, you repeated what I was implying. The freemasons themselves could possibly claim no power as an fraternity, but as in any organization, those who are out for wrong can use their group connections through organization to achive power. It can happen in any group. Hell, the Pokemon fan group could be corrupted by misdirected anime fans misappropiating funds for their own profit.

Yet again you completely don't get how freemasonry is run. There is no avenue to achieve power within freemasonry. If you are going to throw out this sort of speculation and accusations, you are going to need to provide evidence and examples. How exactly is a decentralized fraternity where the highest administrative body is a grand lodge going to be abused for evil purposes. Outline this EXACTLY. Because it's not clear at all.


It can happen in any organized group, but usualy in higher levels. I'm not saying that I have definite proof of evil in the freemasons. I guess it's just coincidence when you have so many powerful people all connected to the same "fraternity". Why would one ever assume that just because someone is powerful, the fact that they are a mason would keep them from abusing their connections. That's the simplest assumption.

Yet again, the problem is there no "higher level" in freemasonry so how are the higher levels going to do evil if they don't exist? And again, exactly what are they going to do thats evil? Cackle while doing fish fries and pancake breakfasts? Plot devious schemes of global domination while working at habitat for humanity?

Please list all currently alive "powerful people" who are members of the fraternity. There is no world leader alive who is a member. It is a myth that everyone in power is a mason, it has no basis in reality.

[meksar]

ORDO AB CHAO(Lucifer's Agenda)
Profane Goyim (The non-masons and lower ranking masons)

[lightindarkness]

ORDO AB CHAO(Lucifer's Agenda)
Profane Goyim (The non-masons and lower ranking masons)

Too bad Lucifer is a made up construct, eh?

Also too bad there are no low ranking masons. Or high ranking masons.

Next attempt to make up a theory, please.

[meksar]

It's like Mr Icke has said you Freemasons are coincidence theorists who are ignorant of the fact you are part of a vicious circle seeking to impose its corrupt and demonic willpower upon the population.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=B9GAZxTLyNQ

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qR-pAE003o4&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AwhVrSsBTxs&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tRWkoE_ePsM&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YbgMUKQ1JU4&feature=related

[stewart edwards]

You are quite right! There are Degrees/Ranks and Officers, however the point that was being made is that those ranks only have any effect while in the Lodge. For example when I see the present Master of my Lodge outside of it, I don't call him Worshipful Bro. Ian, I call him Ian. He also has no control over what I do excepet when in the Lodge, 5 times a year.

That was the point about military ranks they have power over other soldiers all of the time except when "on leave".

MikeMike this is a good point. However are you suggesting that there aren't any lodges out there where the master/PMs dont exert undue influence on others? Where members may not like what they are asked to do out of lodge but do it for whatever reason (fear of retribution in some form?). It may or may not happen within UGLE, but can you say hand on heart that it doesnt happen anywhere in the masonic system.

I for one have good reason to believe that I have been directly on the receiving end of this on two occassions. One of which I was shown in confidence emails (though on this occassion I could not say hand on heart that it was a masonic lodge at fault though I understood it to be), and on another is the two women story that you have read me recount (and that was most definately masonic). Can I prove either of these no but the proof is there if people had the inner courage to stand up and be counted.

I would like to see the look on your face if I were GM and I called these men into my office with you present to ask them why they did what they did. If of course they were UGLE Masons.

It is possible Mike that a number of things happen that shouldnt happen. I for example have been pestered for several hours by some of your brothers to use my professioanl qualifications in a business deal "on the cheap" at a masonic event (I think that they thought I would be eager to gain entry but I accept that they could have been testing me). I havent been back to those meetings, for I cant face such pestering again. Not the fault of the meeting, but that experience put me off. And then there are the Masons in my family and the little that they have told me.

Mike, open your eyes. You are part of a wonderful organisation, one that I truly respect and want to see turn the corner, but not all in the garden is rosy. People do get hurt.

[lightgiver]

I'm glad that someone else is paying attention around here:D

You are quite right! There are Degrees/Ranks and Officers, however the point that was being made is that those ranks only have any effect while in the Lodge. For example when I see the present Master of my Lodge outside of it, I don't call him Worshipful Bro. Ian, I call him Ian. He also has no control over what I do excepet when in the Lodge, 5 times a year.

That was the point about military ranks they have power over other soldiers all of the time except when "on leave".

Mike

I am x forces,and the forces have control over you whether you are on leave or not,
but no one as any real control over anyone at the end of the day,but when on leave in the forces,if you go awol or any kind of naughtiness whilst on leave,you will be picked up by the MPs,whether you are in civvies or not,just had to clear that one up.

[mike martin]

Mike this is a good point. However are you suggesting that there aren't any lodges out there where the master/PMs dont exert undue influence on others? Where members may not like what they are asked to do out of lodge but do it for whatever reason (fear of retribution in some form?). It may or may not happen within UGLE, but can you say hand on heart that it doesnt happen anywhere in the masonic system.

This really isn't the right place for this but hey I'll bite just once.

If a Freemason is asked to do something (as a Freemason) that he feels is wrong or he doesn't want to he is under no compulsion to do it because of his membership, regardless of whether he knows that or not.

The possibility that a Freemason may have done so can only be down to two things:

He has not bothered to read and understand the Ritual and/or
a lack of character/fortitude on his and/or the asker's part.

The ceremony of the First Degree points this out to him in no uncertain terms, the words are "helping a friend or brother in time of need without detriment to myself or connections".

Mike

[mike martin]

I am x forces,and the forces have control over you whether you are on leave or not,
but no one as any real control over anyone at the end of the day,but when on leave in the forces,if you go awol or any kind of naughtiness whilst on leave,you will be picked up by the MPs,whether you are in civvies or not,just had to clear that one up.

Oh I know, I know but the point remains. We don't have Masonic MPs or OCs.

Mike

[stewart edwards]

I'll bite just once.I am really saddened to read that you see this in this way.

I have had the inner strength to recover and move forwards. These events were separated by a period of years.

One day should you ever have a moment of realisation that you have been blind to things that happen in plain sight and genuinely want to make things better for the future, you know where to find me.

In the meantime I am very sad at your blindness to this.

Merry Christmas Mike.

[lightgiver]

Oh I know, I know but the point remains. We don't have Masonic MPs or OCs.

Mike

No you can just leave:)

[disconnex]

Yet again you completely don't get how freemasonry is run. There is no avenue to achieve power within freemasonry. If you are going to throw out this sort of speculation and accusations, you are going to need to provide evidence and examples. How exactly is a decentralized fraternity where the highest administrative body is a grand lodge going to be abused for evil purposes. Outline this EXACTLY. Because it's not clear at all.


Works like this. Asshole #1 says to Asshole #2, "Hey we're in the same group, I'll do you a favor." So when Asshole #2 needs a favor he looks to Asshole #1 because they are part of a clique. There doesn't need to be an avenue for power. And don't tell me that it's not the masonic way, it's the human way. Organizations draw cliques and cliques look out for themselves which is a base for a powerstructure. One lone Asshole can't do anything himself, but get another Asshole involved and you have a conspiracy. It just so happens that the clique within the freemasons, which you are not part of, is made up of people who can pull strings and have a bit of say ( In the real world, not the masonic ). Maybe not current or recent presidents of the U.S, but still people with some pull using their connections for a favor.

[the guy in pink]

. And don't tell me that it's not the masonic way, it's the human way. Organizations draw cliques and cliques look out for themselves which is a base for a powerstructure.
I have another passion, I ride and race bicycles. I have done more networking in the cycling community than I have ever done in lodge. The average age of cyclists in competition is 42years, they are from the "Healthy & Wealthy" set. (and can afford $8000.00 bicycles) They have a real base for a powwerstructure, they have money and energy. Why is there no outcry against the evils of cycling?

[disconnex]

I have another passion, I ride and race bicycles. I have done more networking in the cycling community than I have ever done in lodge. The average age of cyclists in competition is 42years, they are from the "Healthy & Wealthy" set. (and can afford $8000.00 bicycles) They have a real base for a powwerstructure, they have money and energy. Why is there no outcry against the evils of cycling?

Get a few presidents, founding fathers, actors, ceos of powerful companies, and bank presidents envolved and you've got yourself one hell of a recipe for for the abuse of power by association. Get me a list of your members and I'll sus out the possibilities....

[the guy in pink]

Get a few presidents, founding fathers, actors, ceos of powerful companies, and bank presidents envolved and you've got yourself one hell of a recipe for for the abuse of power by association. Get me a list of your members and I'll sus out the possibilities....

We have the CEO's etc there already. We have one 105km event that attracts 35 000 participants annually. Every year govement ministers are spotted in the crowds, and some CEO is photographed networking on this cellphone on his bike.
Another week long mountain bike epic is limited to 1500 participants. The $2000.00 entry fee only encourages more entries and lotteries etc are needed to select who gets to ride.
Cyclists outnumber lodge members 10:1 ( here anyway) , and us cyclists have a worldwide central organisation in the UCI. The oppurtunity for networking is there as it is in every human activity, why single out the one with the least likelyhood of it happening.

[disconnex]

The oppurtunity for networking is there as it is in every human activity, why single out the one with the least likelyhood of it happening.

I think I touched on that when I said it could even happen in the pokemon fan club. I also said that it is human nature to do so meaning that anytime there is a group of people, there will be an elitist clique, a loser clique, a just so so clique, whatever the case may be there will be a clique. These people will use their group through human socialization to reward each other and give and recieve favors. Great, sweaty cyclist do the same thing, no surprise. You could have a turd wrangling group for christs sake and you will eventualy draw a clique.

[mike martin]

No you can just leave:)

Quite right. We don't sign a contract for a period of time.

The only requirement is not to reveal the signs, tokens and words even if we do leave.

Mike

[meksar]

This masonic tomfoolery is quite amusing, mike martin, keystone and lightindarkness are all clearly the main culprits and there random attacks are the last line of protection for the masonic establishment controlling society through its many tentacles.

[lightindarkness]

This masonic tomfoolery is quite amusing, mike martin, keystone and lightindarkness are all clearly the main culprits and there random attacks are the last line of protection for the masonic establishment controlling society through its many tentacles.

No amount of propaganda from you can stop the masonic ideals of equality and liberty. Nice try though :) I wish you would stop your hatred and rage against equality and liberty though, you might find you like it if you'd stop listening to your NWO masters like Hitler and Stalin.

[lightindarkness]

Works like this. Asshole #1 says to Asshole #2, "Hey we're in the same group, I'll do you a favor." So when Asshole #2 needs a favor he looks to Asshole #1 because they are part of a clique. There doesn't need to be an avenue for power. And don't tell me that it's not the masonic way, it's the human way. Organizations draw cliques and cliques look out for themselves which is a base for a powerstructure. One lone Asshole can't do anything himself, but get another Asshole involved and you have a conspiracy. It just so happens that the clique within the freemasons, which you are not part of, is made up of people who can pull strings and have a bit of say ( In the real world, not the masonic ). Maybe not current or recent presidents of the U.S, but still people with some pull using their connections for a favor.

But you see the problem is that there is nothing about freemasonry that enables this, and doing favors is something that exists in every single group, formal or informal, institutional or not, whenever 2 or more people gather.

Of course freemasonry is even less likely to be a avenue for this because it specifically makes favors unmasonic conduct and the ritual itself expressly teaches against it.

There is no clique within the freemasons that has any "say" in the "real world." That you want it do does not change the fact that this is not reality.

[keystone]

This masonic tomfoolery is quite amusing, mike martin, keystone and lightindarkness are all clearly the main culprits and there random attacks are the last line of protection for the masonic establishment controlling society through its many tentacles.I find the use of the expression "random attacks" really quite hilarious seeing as where it comes from.

[disconnex]

It is possible Mike that a number of things happen that shouldnt happen. I for example have been pestered for several hours by some of your brothers to use my professioanl qualifications in a business deal "on the cheap" at a masonic event (I think that they thought I would be eager to gain entry but I accept that they could have been testing me). I havent been back to those meetings, for I cant face such pestering again. Not the fault of the meeting, but that experience put me off. And then there are the Masons in my family and the little that they have told me.

Mike, open your eyes. You are part of a wonderful organisation, one that I truly respect and want to see turn the corner, but not all in the garden is rosy. People do get hurt.

This is all I was trying to elude to. It doesn't matter if you are a freemason or not. People use group connections to influence others. Let's forget about ruling the world for a second and accept the fact that deals and favors happen solely on the fact that people share a common connection to certain groups. Nothing complicated, just that simple.