once and for all chemtrails exist

[jairama]

we all know who is paid to dis-inform here.
For those of us that watch chemtrails, i mean really watch them,
we see the planes spray for miles, turn off the spray, turn around, and spray again; sometimes crossing the previous run. To even think that these are routine airline flights commercial or passenger just means you haven't had the opportunity to watch the sky for a few hours somewhere with a view. well, i have, and unless pilots are going the wrong way everyday and need to turn around, i only wish i was paid to convince people of the truth instead of dis-inform.

someone make a timelapse video of a plane turning around and cover the same area please.

[marpat]

we all know who is paid to dis-inform here.
For those of us that watch chemtrails, i mean really watch them,
we see the planes spray for miles, turn off the spray, turn around, and spray again; sometimes crossing the previous run. To even think that these are routine airline flights commercial or passenger just means you haven't had the opportunity to watch the sky for a few hours somewhere with a view. well, i have, and unless pilots are going the wrong way everyday and need to turn around, i only wish i was paid to convince people of the truth instead of dis-inform.

someone make a timelapse video of a plane turning around and cover the same area please.


Please tell us who is paid to disinform in here. The fact that you have made such a statement means that such 'paid' people must be successful at what they do.

Bit of an expert in air travel? you know where aircraft are going and what air corridors they follow? perhaps you have maps of such thing which you can compare the flights you see against. If it was that obvious then how are people struggling to get conclusive proof?

[largejack]

Many people have obtained proof but you just don't want to believe it:rolleyes:

[antinwo]

Yeah it may upset his status quo:rolleyes:

[marpat]

Many people have obtained proof but you just don't want to believe it:rolleyes:

If people have proof then belief is not required. Belief is only necessary when you cant prove something but you think it might be true. :rolleyes:

If all of this proof is out there then why are people not going public on a huge scale to get it out there? if the lives of millions are at stake then why are people not doing everything they can to make the public aware. talking about it in a forum for believers is not going to save the world. My thinking is that if this proof is out there and people are not making it fully known by every means possible then if millions did suffer they are responsible for not trying to help. Knowledge may have power but it also brings responsibility.

[antinwo]

Ok then if you are so against the proof that chemtrails exist then why don't you disprove their existence yourself just to put your mind at rest;)

[marpat]

Ok then if you are so against the proof that chemtrails exist then why don't you disprove their existence yourself just to put your mind at rest;)

I dont need to. Proof belongs with people making the claims. If you are stating chemtrails exist then it is for you to come up with proof. If you get proof that is beyond dispute then I will accept it as fact. I will question the material until you can give me something that is beyond question. If you dont want people asking questions then it seems clear that you dont really have any proof.

[largejack]

i dont need to. Proof belongs with people making the claims. If you are stating chemtrails exist then it is for you to come up with proof. If you get proof that is beyond dispute then i will accept it as fact. I will question the material until you can give me something that is beyond question. If you dont want people asking questions then it seems clear that you dont really have any proof.

mmmm

[largejack]

I dont need to. Proof belongs with people making the claims. If you are stating chemtrails exist then it is for you to come up with proof. If you get proof that is beyond dispute then I will accept it as fact. I will question the material until you can give me something that is beyond question. If you dont want people asking questions then it seems clear that you dont really have any proof.

:rolleyes:

[antinwo]

Well lots of people have come up with proof. I have never said I don't want people asking questions. Asking questions can only be a good thing.

[comawhite015]

So where is this proof that is being so ignored?

[cafetimes1991]

http://www.funnyjunksite.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/funny_cat_pictures_092.jpg

[marpat]

Well lots of people have come up with proof. I have never said I don't want people asking questions. Asking questions can only be a good thing.


Well why doesnnt somebody get on the telly then to get the message out there. Why not try and get some air time? People have done things such as interviewing conspiracy theorists on tv so its not like you cant do it.

Lets us see you take all this proof and go public. You want people to fight then give them something to fight against.

[marpat]

Still didn't get to find out who gets paid to come in here.

[howie]

someone make a timelapse video of a plane turning around and cover the same area please.

I've set up a camera & I'm recording now.

[antinwo]

Well why doesnnt somebody get on the telly then to get the message out there. Why not try and get some air time? People have done things such as interviewing conspiracy theorists on tv so its not like you cant do it.

Lets us see you take all this proof and go public. You want people to fight then give them something to fight against.

There has been coverage on the discovery channel and the german gov has admitted they are spraying. What more proof do you need that something is going on.

[truthseeker1980]

Well why doesnnt somebody get on the telly then to get the message out there. Why not try and get some air time? People have done things such as interviewing conspiracy theorists on tv so its not like you cant do it.

Lets us see you take all this proof and go public. You want people to fight then give them something to fight against.

That's the most ridculous thing ive ever seen you write, marine pattern camoflague hide with them and they wont see me, man.

The newspapers, watchdog and networks in the UK aint even interested in the illegal activities of local councils extorting money from the hard working tax payer, why the hell are they going to agree to do a programme about something which is going to expose even more government lies?:cool:

[marpat]

There has been coverage on the discovery channel and the german gov has admitted they are spraying. What more proof do you need that something is going on.

So what did they admit to spraying an when? also, I do not live in Germany so if something happened theere then why should I assume its happening here? not much of a conspiracy if they admit to it.

[marpat]

That's the most ridculous thing ive ever seen you write, marine pattern camoflague hide with them and they wont see me, man.

The newspapers, watchdog and networks in the UK aint even interested in the illegal activities of local councils extorting money from the hard working tax payer, why the hell are they going to agree to do a programme about something which is going to expose even more government lies?:cool:

Are you stupid? I have seen many conspiracy documentaries on the TV. If the German government has admitted to it then what would they have to fear? I think you just dont like the gauntlet being thrown down to get off your arse and do something about it.

[marpat]

Just been looking at the German stuff. I can see why chaff would create such an effect as I have seen whan small amount of it look like on radar. A small amount can look like a large aircraft. I know there is a training area in Germany where such things can be done. I guess a civvy weatherman might not know about such things.

Questions.

If these chemtrails contain heavy metals then why do they persist in the atmosphere? If they fall then how is there a persistent trail? It either falls or it doesn't. Barium is used in medical examinations.

Why would governments spray a nation knowing that they too would would be victim to their own actions?

One of the website states the beauty of the theory is that you can feel threatened by it but cant touch it but if heavy metal particles are falling from the sky then you can touch it.

[sharpiesix]

Interesting article, pay attention to the date it was published. : )

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1516880.stm

[marpat]

Found this in another forum regarding the German thingy:



"I do not doubt that may well be the case, in fact, if the government released that report, it must be true! But I still say that all the pictures in this thread, including the ones you have just posted, are contrails, not chemtrails.

Regarding the German Govt, I did post in the thread started by Lawwalk about that. The German Govt did not admit to anything of the sort. It was a TV News report, accusing the govt of producing chemtrails, and a German Green party member who commented on the article.

Weather conditions today near Heathrow are not good, (overcast) so far, for me taking any pictures, but could change later.

I think I'll start my own separate thread, so we can address ALL the chemtrail threads here. "

[marpat]

Interesting article, pay attention to the date it was published. : )

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1516880.stm

Reported by the corrupt, illuminati run newspapers as well. Why would they stitch themselves up?

Personally I would be suprised if weather modification wasnt happening.

[nightferry]

Questions.

If these chemtrails contain heavy metals then why do they persist in the atmosphere? If they fall then how is there a persistent trail? It either falls or it doesn't. Barium is used in medical examinations.

Obviously any potential adverse health effects depend on what form the Barium takes - according to the Larousse Dictionary of Science and Technology, Barium dust is toxic.


Why would governments spray a nation knowing that they too would would be victim to their own actions?

Past open air experiments have proved that Governments often aren't aware of the potential for harm associated with experiments conducted in their name.

On occasion, a perceived need for a series of experiments tends to outweigh any possible health concerns for those members of the public (and members of the Government) who happen to live in (or under) the trials area.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/west/series1/i/spraying_203.jpg

Porton Down’s other batch of unwitting guinea pigs was the general public.

On February 1, 1961 a Land Rover set off at 10.45 am from the village of Ilchester. It was driven by scientists from Porton Down.

The Land Rover travelled through Wedmore and on to the outskirts of Bristol.

As it went, Zinc Cadmium Sulphide was sprayed into the air in an attempt to simulate germ warfare.

The cloud was being traced at sampling stations through Somerset and Wiltshire back to Porton.

It was the height of the Cold War and the British government feared that the Soviet Union was planning a chemical and biological attack.

The government wanted to analyse how a cloud of germs might disperse.

The scientists were instructed to handle the chemical very carefully. They were ordered to wear full protective clothing and gas masks.

Those handling the material were to be given annual medical checks.
Despite the extreme safety precautions the scientists took, they were spraying the chemical cloud onto passers-by.

When they arrived in Bristol they would have been travelling through groups of lunchtime shoppers...

BBC InsideOut full article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/west/series1/porton-down.shtml)


nightferry

[marpat]

Obviously any potential adverse health effects depend on what form the Barium takes - according to the Larousse Dictionary of Science and Technology, Barium dust is toxic.




Past open air experiments have proved that Governments often aren't aware of the potential for harm associated with experiments conducted in their name.

On occasion, a perceived need for a series of experiments tends to outweigh any possible health concerns for those members of the public (and members of the Government) who happen to live in (or under) the trials area.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/west/series1/i/spraying_203.jpg

Porton Down’s other batch of unwitting guinea pigs was the general public.

On February 1, 1961 a Land Rover set off at 10.45 am from the village of Ilchester. It was driven by scientists from Porton Down.

The Land Rover travelled through Wedmore and on to the outskirts of Bristol.

As it went, Zinc Cadmium Sulphide was sprayed into the air in an attempt to simulate germ warfare.

The cloud was being traced at sampling stations through Somerset and Wiltshire back to Porton.

It was the height of the Cold War and the British government feared that the Soviet Union was planning a chemical and biological attack.

The government wanted to analyse how a cloud of germs might disperse.

The scientists were instructed to handle the chemical very carefully. They were ordered to wear full protective clothing and gas masks.

Those handling the material were to be given annual medical checks.
Despite the extreme safety precautions the scientists took, they were spraying the chemical cloud onto passers-by.

When they arrived in Bristol they would have been travelling through groups of lunchtime shoppers...

BBC InsideOut full article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/west/series1/porton-down.shtml)


nightferry

Back in the 60's things were not planned as well as they are now, there was a whole different perception to risk and public danger. If such a test was done now you would find it was far more controlled than back then. This Porton Down example does not prove chemtrail theories just Government complacency. There was also a good reason to keep experiments secret back then as you dont want your enemy knowing what your methods and defences are.

I have seen reports that barium features in these trails but in what form? the hrmless or harmfull?

Although people keep saying that you would never be able to take the government to court about such things I think the publicity generated by such a case could get the public interested.

[truthseeker1980]

The same points and arguments are being brought up each time, the German thing was discussed on here over a year ago and i think you (MARPAT) were on here then.

Why start new CHEMTRAIL threads, most of the earlier ones have got most of the info people like Marpat always bring up.

Oh yeah, I can see why they do, it coz if someone didn't start new ones it would be very hard for non believers and dis-inofrmers to try and push the NO CHEMTRAILs theory to new posters. So they start new ones and ask the same bloody question people have already answered in other posts to keep their belief's more accessale than the older posts with answers in.

Stupid me.:eek:

[nightferry]

Back in the 60's things were not planned as well as they are now, there was a whole different perception to risk and public danger. If such a test was done now you would find it was far more controlled than back then. This Porton Down example does not prove chemtrail theories just Government complacency. There was also a good reason to keep experiments secret back then as you dont want your enemy knowing what your methods and defences are.

I certainly hope that any tests done now would be more controlled, marpat, but Porton's past safety history doesn't exactly inspire confidence. :rolleyes:

Especially when one learns that, according to a reply to a FOIA request, Dstl Porton Down still consider E.coli MRE162, and Bacillus subtilis (aka BG), to be safe for use in those future BW experiments to be conducted in populated areas.

Even after a MOD commissioned Independent Review found that exposure to E.coli MRE162 could have serious adverse health effects to susceptible individuals; and that the US National Academy of Science's Institute of Medicine have stated that Bacillus subtilis (BG) should now be regarded as a human pathogen! :mad:


I have seen reports that barium features in these trails but in what form? the hrmless or harmfull?

If you are referring to Porton's experiments then yes, some batches of Zinc Cadmium sulphide did contain Barium; mainly to act as a fluorescence activator.

Although people keep saying that you would never be able to take the government to court about such things I think the publicity generated by such a case could get the public interested.

Well first off, you would have to prove that harm had been done to those exposed to any aerosols - not an easy prospect. :(

For instance, its well known locally that during the period 1963-1968, all coastal towns in South Dorset suffered widespread D&V - the Portland bug, the Bridport bug, etc. At the time it was blamed on the water supply, although this was never proved. Obviously, a much more likely cause of D&V is the digestion of E.coli - and it just so happened that at the time, massive, high concentration aerosols of E.coli MRE162 were being repeatedly sprayed over the area by Porton scientists.
(see Chemtrails-UK Public Area Biowarfare Tests 1949-76 (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42401) )

Those who suffered the repeated bouts of D&V only discovered Porton's activities over 30 years later, far too late to do anything about it. :rolleyes:

Then you have a situation such as the widespread spraying, sometimes at extremely close range, of a hazardous Cadmium compound (Zinc Cdamium sulphide). Although very hazardous, the adverse health effects from exposure ot ZnCds would probably not be felt for many years, by which time Government lawyers would be able to blame any illness on other environmental causes.

There again, I must add that Governments are very concious of public opinion (more so than people believe) and a concerted campaign can achieve quite remarkable results. For instance, the Dorset campaign resulted in the establishment of two separate Independent Reviews which, while not appearing to have any legal 'teeth', did at least record for posterity that Government's have (and will in the future) permit their citizens to be exposed to hazardous materials during official scientific experiments.

So yes, a large public campaign would probably cause the Government to pause for thought, but unless bodies of those affected start piling up in the street, I suspect that nothing much would come of it; except possibly for more stringent safety procedures being adopted in future trials.

After all, we have known since 1999 that Dstl Porton Down will, at some time in the future, conduct large scale BW experiments over populated areas. The Government Minister Lord Gilbert stated as such. This policy was confirmed by Dstl Porton Down in 2006 as still extant. Newspapers and television companies are aware of this fact, but until any future trial causes provable illness, they just aren't interested enough to report the fact. :mad:




nightferry

[marpat]

We could argue about what is harmful and waht isnt but there was a time when asbestos was thought to be OK. Is it not the same for barium dust?

The reality is that things happening at Porton Down in th 60's is not really proof of chemtrails. All it tells you is that some dodgy experiments went on that the public knew nothing about. Why would then try adn suppress that information now? to prevent people wanting compensation payouts.

[nightferry]

We could argue about what is harmful and waht isnt but there was a time when asbestos was thought to be OK. Is it not the same for barium dust?

We could also argue about whether an organisation such as Porton Down, which specialised in the study of the effects of particulate matter on the deepest part of the lungs, should have known better than to spray massive aerosols of various particulates (in the size range 1-5 microns) over populated areas. Especially when they freely admitted at the time that they had very little idea of the mechanisms which operated in the deepest part of the lungs - the alvioli. :mad:

The reality is that things happening at Porton Down in th 60's is not really proof of chemtrails. All it tells you is that some dodgy experiments went on that the public knew nothing about. Why would then try adn suppress that information now? to prevent people wanting compensation payouts.

I agree, Porton's 360 (and rising) public area BW experiments do not constitute evidence of chemtrails.

But imo they tell you a lot more than just the past existence of some dodgy experiments. ;)

They prove that Government scientists will and do have permission to disseminate massive particulate aerosols over much of the UK. The fact that past aerosols were sprayed from a very low altitude is irrelevant; the important thing to remember is that massive aerosols were sprayed, and that they contaminated vast areas of England and Wales.

Imo, there are many reasons why Dstl Porton Down have a tendency to attempt to suppress information about their past public area 'activities'.

After dealing with Dstl for a number of years, I feel that the primary reason lies with a peculiar type of arrogance which exists, in one form or another, on the Porton Down facility. This is a hangover from the days when it was regarded as the 'Crown Jewels' of the MOD. They simply aren't used to being accountable, so their first instinct is to suppress. Although it has to be said that a small amount of their work requires careful handling so as not to aid Biowarfare proliferation.

I'm not sure that the payment of compensation is a major concern to the MOD in this case. As I've already explained, proving that these experiments caused physical harm is extremely difficult.

Another likely explanation is embarrassment - each new revelation causes the general public to realise just how little regard was shown by Porton scientists to the well being of citizens of England and Wales.

A case in point is Dstl's repeated refusal to release detailed information concerning their joint UK/US Biowarfare experiments, conducted in South Dorset - the notorious DICE trials.

This refusal is starting to cause concern among Dorset residents, who are quite reasonably wondering whether the MOD know something which they'd rather the public didn't know. :(


nightferry