Do all people have souls?

[societyisthematrix]

I listened to Tsarion on the Jeff Rense show on 1-17-07 and I couldn't believe what the two of them agreed on...

Not all people on earth have souls, they said. Wow, I've never heard that before.

I believe that all people have souls, I'm 90-99% sure of it. :)

[jimijams]

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/organic_portals.htm

[societyisthematrix]

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/organic_portals.htm

I'm familiar with that theory but it was new info coming from Tsarion and Rense, I didn't realize that they believed that. BTW, has David Icke actually stated that not all people have souls? I know about his "woman in the red dress" theory but I'm not sure if he's actually said positively that not all people have souls. Anyone?

[thirdwave]

I clicked yes %100

although its a trick question i feel...

I think we all have souls...every living thing has a soul....

but if something else has control over your soul, then you can certainly come across as soulless... because its not your soul that is freely expressing its self but your soul is infact a slave serving another...

so from one point of view you can say this is soulless... but i think its more an imprisoned soul...

i have had mates who have been "under the thumb" by a girl friend .so on..

and they can come across a bit more soulless... no drive, no desire to come out into the world .... you could view it as a bit soulless... OR you can say they are a bit dormant... because they are being manipulated into living the way they are.... their soul is being controlled not by them so they are not very busy, just following a pattern thats laid out for them.

not quite as severe as the "illuminati" having your soul... but a good description i think...

[societyisthematrix]

I clicked yes %100

although its a trick question i feel...

I think we all have souls...every living thing has a soul....

but if something else has control over your soul, then you can certainly come across as soulless... because its not your soul that is freely expressing its self but your soul is infact a slave serving another...

so from one point of view you can say this is soulless... but i think its more an imprisoned soul...

i have had mates who have been "under the thumb" by a girl friend .so on..

and they can come across a bit more soulless... no drive, no desire to come out into the world .... you could view it as a bit soulless... OR you can say they are a bit dormant... because they are being manipulated into living the way they are.... their soul is being controlled not by them so they are not very busy, just following a pattern thats laid out for them.

not quite as severe as the "illuminati" having your soul... but a good description i think...

Excellent post, right on.

However, Rense and Tsarion were talking about something entirely different from that:

Tsarion: ...If you look in the eyes of most young people today, you don't see a soul, Jeff. You don't see a person in there anymore.

Rense: You've just said something that was brought on the program recently, John Hogue did it. He said that something that I've been sensing... John said it, it just caught me flat footed. He said there are a lot of people who do not have souls, in fact he said the majority don't. He explained it in a very deft and credible fashion. He said, yes they have the soul seed but it has not sprouted and grown at all.

Tsarion: Right. And this goes back to the psychology of Thomas Saz (sp?). He said basically that the soul is not something that is given to you, it something that is given to you by God, it is something that you create.

[thirdwave]

Excellent post, right on.

However, Rense and Tsarion were talking about something entirely different from that:

Tsarion: ...If you look in the eyes of most young people today, you don't see a soul, Jeff. You don't see a person in there anymore.

Rense: You've just said something that was brought on the program recently, John Hogue did it. He said that something that I've been sensing... John said it, it just caught me flat footed. He said there are a lot of people who do not have souls, in fact he said the majority don't. He explained it in a very deft and credible fashion. He said, yes they have the soul seed but it has not sprouted and grown at all.

Tsarion: Right. And this goes back to the psychology of Thomas Saz (sp?). He said basically that the soul is not something that is given to you, it something that is given to you by God, it is something that you create.

I see what their saying..... i guess we do create our selfs and if we don't get creating then we don't become something...

it seems most kids are busy creating what they are forced to create.

it all comes down to that big issue Icke speaks of.... people got to think for them selfs!

[misscpb]

Hi Everyone

I feel that through this physical life we are a spirit who is housed within the physical body, and that the soul of the person is the information bank that holds all information on everything we do and all lives etc we have lived.

I often think that its not a question about if we have one, but a question of how aware we are and just how much we are listening to our own spirit/soul to help us through life.

[seamus]

Excellent post, right on.

However, Rense and Tsarion were talking about something entirely different from that:

Tsarion: ...If you look in the eyes of most young people today, you don't see a soul, Jeff. You don't see a person in there anymore.

Rense: You've just said something that was brought on the program recently, John Hogue did it. He said that something that I've been sensing... John said it, it just caught me flat footed. He said there are a lot of people who do not have souls, in fact he said the majority don't. He explained it in a very deft and credible fashion. He said, yes they have the soul seed but it has not sprouted and grown at all.



Very interesting. My people understand that indeed there is a plant happening there, and that it must be cultivated by parents, just like a garden. If you don't want weeds you have to pull em. If you want grapes you have to prune a lot. If you want apples you have to coppice. But I think what is happening to children today is that many are being put in a repressed state by television and dysfunctional parenting. Parents are abdicating the wonderful position they were meant to fulfill in their children's lives, because in many cases that was what was done to them, perhaps to a lesser degree, but there is a slippery slope under our feet.

It may well be that in some cases the seed doesn't sprout. I think in many other cases the seed sprouts, but is stunted by aspartame, ritalin, television, sports (in excess), video games, "time outs" from parents who really don't give a damn. Children need to know someone gives a damn, or they will die spiritually just surely as babies that are not held die though not lacking any physical needs.

I will be thinking about this for a while.


s

[cmdr_sabbathius]

We don't HAVE souls. We ARE souls. That is (to quote the Police. lol) we are spirits in the material world.

What people often mistakenly call the soul, is the spirit. Do all have spirits? yes. As the spiritual form is the true form of what we are. And the spirit lives forever -

"Death is so final for only the living. The spirit will always remain." -- Ozzy Osbourne, Back On Earth

[jimijams]

Excellent post, right on.

However, Rense and Tsarion were talking about something entirely different from that:

Tsarion: ...If you look in the eyes of most young people today, you don't see a soul, Jeff. You don't see a person in there anymore.

Rense: You've just said something that was brought on the program recently, John Hogue did it. He said that something that I've been sensing... John said it, it just caught me flat footed. He said there are a lot of people who do not have souls, in fact he said the majority don't. He explained it in a very deft and credible fashion. He said, yes they have the soul seed but it has not sprouted and grown at all.

Tsarion: Right. And this goes back to the psychology of Thomas Saz (sp?). He said basically that the soul is not something that is given to you, it something that is given to you by God, it is something that you create.
This follows the teaching of Gurdjieff and the Gnostics that you are born with a soul but you need to cultivate it correctly to attract spirit to you otherwise as in Gurdjieff's words 'you'll just die like a dog'..
For more information read P. D. Ouspensky's Fourth Way..

[jimijams]

SITM do you have a link for that interview?

[societyisthematrix]

SITM do you have a link for that interview?

I would upload it for you but I'm not sure if it's against the rules. :confused:

I don't think Jeff Rense cares about people sharing his radio interviews but I know they have a zero tolerance policy for sharing copyrighted materials here. If it's ok, I'll upload the files and post them. It was a two interview on the Jeff Rense show, 1-17-07.

[jimijams]

I would upload it for you but I'm not sure if it's against the rules. :confused:

I don't think Jeff Rense cares about people sharing his radio interviews but I know they have a zero tolerance policy for sharing copyrighted materials here. If it's ok, I'll upload the files and post them. It was a two interview on the Jeff Rense show, 1-17-07.
He he.. Up to you mate, otherwise you can PM me.. cheers

[societyisthematrix]

He he.. Up to you mate, otherwise you can PM me.. cheers

If there were any other message board I would say OK but not here. :cool:

[jimijams]

If there were any other message board I would say OK but not here. :cool:
Maybe you could ask permission from our fearless leader..:rolleyes:
Failing that you could post it here.. http://www.davidickeforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2127&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=1095

[gareth icke]

I listened to Tsarion on the Jeff Rense show on 1-17-07 and I couldn't believe what the two of them agreed on...

Not all people on earth have souls, they said. Wow, I've never heard that before.

I believe that all people have souls, I'm 90-99% sure of it. :)

While everybody might have souls, not everyone has soul baby :cool:

[societyisthematrix]

Maybe you could ask permission from our fearless leader..:rolleyes:
Failing that you could post it here.. http://www.davidickeforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2127&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=1095

If they give me permission, I will post it.

I don't post at the forum anymore. It's far too dangerous, here's an explanation:

http://godlikeproductions.com/bbs/message.php?messageid=337766&mpage=&showdate=

[jimijams]

While everybody might have souls, not everyone has soul baby :cool:
'YAWN'

[awakensong]

Die like a dog?? Don't dogs have souls, too? I have always understood the soul to be the same as the subconscious mind, which is what reincarnates. it would be the mind, emotions, will and conscience. The spirit is what gives life to and animates the body.

However, if Consciousness is all that can and does exist, why is there any need for more, and wouldn't that be duality?

I remember reading Alan Watt's book "The Book on the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are", and he explained something, then said "And I did it all without brining in any spooks such as a spirit or soul".:D

[jimijams]

Die like a dog?? Don't dogs have souls, too? I have always understood the soul to be the same as the subconscious mind, which is what reincarnates. it would be the mind, emotions, will and conscience. The spirit is what gives life to and animates the body.

However, if Consciousness is all that can and does exist, why is there any need for more, and wouldn't that be duality?

I remember reading Alan Watt's book "The Book on the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are", and he explained something, then said "And I did it all without brining in any spooks such as a spirit or soul".:D
Spirit and soul are two different things according to Gurdjieff and you need to cultivate spirit to properly escape the matrix according to my understanding of it which still is very limited..
He say's unless you are prepared when you die that the experience will overwhelm you and your soul will just disperse in to the ether, only through correct spiritual practice can you be ready and hold it together when the body dies..

[stikmata]

If they give me permission, I will post it.

I don't post at the forum anymore. It's far too dangerous, here's an explanation:

http://godlikeproductions.com/bbs/message.php?messageid=337766&mpage=&showdate=

yes... your life is in MY hands if you post on that forum :rolleyes:

just post the audio... the Tsarion impersonator got 14 warnings before he got banned.... i don't think you'll get kicked to the curb for posting one interview.

you're just a lil ball of fears, eh amigo?

[societyisthematrix]

yes... your life is in MY hands if you post on that forum :rolleyes:

just post the audio... the Tsarion impersonator got 14 warnings before he got banned.... i don't think you'll get kicked to the curb for posting one interview.

you're just a lil ball of fears, eh amigo?

Still trying to push people around and put them down, even here huh? If the mods ok it (and I think they should because Rense tells people to share his mp3s), I'll post the mp3s.

[jimijams]

Still trying to push people around and put them down, even here huh? If the mods ok it (and I think they should because Rense tells people to share his mp3s), I'll post the mp3s.
It's better to beg for forgiveness than than to ask for permission..;)

[daylenmichael]

We do not all have a separate soul...We do not all have a separate mind...The only thing you have to yourself is your body and its associated ego. The latter have an expiration date but the former do not. Spirit/Soul is where we are all One and our developed or underdeveloped mind is our ability to comprehend that so I would have to say that all natural creations have the spark of the divine in them. From minerals to plants to animals to humans to ascended beings we all have a perfectly developed singular soul...it seems to me that it requires development of our personal "mind space" to realize it however.

It has always made sense to me to view it in the simplest terms possible...

Mind Development

Minerals = Completely or as close to mindless creations of nature as possible. Expressions of complete unknowing of the spirit self and even of the physical self. A physical creation without knowledge of its own ego.

Plants = Mindless to a degree. Certainly not capable of self introspection but still a living growing being. Without free will to transgress against the plan set before it by its Creator. Wholly dependent upon its set and setting to perform its duties and without remorse for the inevitability of its own impending death which would indicate that it is still "egoless."

Animals = Climbing the ladder of separation. Getting closer to understanding what self is. Certainly to any animal intelligence the Self is its body. Mostly able to defend (even in vain) against beings that would try to harm its definition of self. Recognizing self or body preservation is key to understanding animal intelligence and an animals limited use of free will. They appear to be the heart of ego consciousness.

Humans = The last step in experiencing separation and the ego. Humans have free will which most use to further their animalistic desires of self preservation. A limited few however use their free will to become truly self aware. That is not to say that given enough reincarnations that all won't eventually become self aware because it is pointless (from a top-down view) to keep any human from achieving its highest potential. Humans run the gamut from horrid wastes of blackened mind space to minds that shine with an inner Light that knows no bounds. They are very hard to classify in terms of the development of their personal perception of reality because at the time one becomes human the journey is really up to them and becomes entirely personal. By this I mean to say that they choose death (ego awareness) or they choose eternal Life (spiritual awareness).

Ascended beings = What the hell would I know about it? I am a human...I would have to estimate that they are entirely capable of understanding their separateness and their Oneness at the same time while constantly able to sublimate the animalistic instincts inherent in ego awareness. One must have an ego to understand what it is to be separate but one must also be able to reject their ego if they want to become constantly in a state of Oneness.

That is my simplistic view on the development of minds that leave Oneness to experience separation and the resulting journey back to their source. If you have read this far I apologize for getting off on such a tangent.

We all have One spirit that we share between each other, by my limited tongue it is referred to as Love.

:rolleyes: Daylen Michael :rolleyes:

[stikmata]

Still trying to push people around and put them down, even here huh? If the mods ok it (and I think they should because Rense tells people to share his mp3s), I'll post the mp3s.

call it what you like.... i've got nothing personal against you.... i've stood up for you on occasion.

i don't see how i'm pushing anyone around either... you say Rense tells people to share his mp3s... you have his mp3s... people here want his mp3s.

what are you afraid of?

[wanderer]

My thinking on this is:

If you believe something exists - then it exists in some dimension/density or another - so why assume that every living thing has a soul?

I would propose that reality constantly changes to suit your belief system - that is to say - you are presented with the reality you trully believe exists.

Our belief dictates the choices we make, which in turn dictate which of the infinite 'dimensions' (possibilities) we choose to inhabit from one moment to the next - usually a reality that continues to reinforce our belief - so round and round we go!

Thanks to this constant self programming, most people see reality as fixed in time and space, rather than manifestation of thoughtform. We are easily manipulated by 'conventional wisdom, 'expert opinion', 'scientific facts', 'political movements', 'religion' etc. Very strong binding forces indeed, because the thoughts of the many outweigh the thoughts of the few - the sheeple factor.

In this state, our creative potential becomes seriously stifled - we forget who (what) we are and fail to recognise the power we have within us. However, certain psychotropic substances, meditation, hypnosis and near death experiences can expose us to a completely alien concept of what is real - the 'programme' gets bypassed/altered and you are changed forever(albeit often in an inperceivable way)

In short - anything is possible - we are the creator - we are slowly waking up to this concept. Consequently, 'matrix' (ego) mind' is doing everything in its power to retain its sense of 'self' - just as people react to a threat to their own ego. Microcosm, macrocosm. There is nothing 'out there' but the thoughts we project.

Anyone?

[awakensong]

What about NDEs and past life regressions? The soul must continue - it couldn't be that each newly born baby has a brand-new mind. There are too many differences in personalities and preferences within families.

Here is something I have looked into before - http://www.geocities.com/~divisiontheory/booktwo.html - The Division Theory- the separation of spirit and soul.

What he basically has said is that at the death of the body, the spirit goes to a place of bliss and rest while the soul goes to a place of some type of learning.

For a really way-out theory, John Lear has said "Don't go to the light; it's a trick". He says the Grays have a base on the moon where they have a "soul catcher" which is what enforces reincarnation.

[fryertuck]

none of us have souls :o

[awakensong]

We also don't really exist as we think we do. I like the way Chuck Hillig puts it in "The Way It Is". He says that we agreed to have this experience and agreed to forget who we really are (One Consciousness), but the problem is, we have forgotten that we have forgotten.

Now Consciousness is squared off against Itself, we believe we are really these bodies and minds, and are taking things seriously as if this is true reality, instead of a virtual one.

[mari]

I don't beleive we have souls.......I KNOW we have souls.
Yes, definately!

[horseflesh]

I often ponder on whether our souls have memories. Memories are stored in the brain, you can see this when people experience amnesia due to brain damage. If our souls contained memories then this could not happen.

I believe our souls are our DNA, our DNA determines who we are.

Remember, 'they' want your soul. Could this be why 'they' are creating a DNA database in the rush up to 2012 ?.

[awakensong]

I think the brain is a 'conduit' of our soul and mind where the memories are really stored. To me the soul is both the conscious and the subconscious mind.

So, if there is brain damage and amnesia, then yes, that would block memories from surfacing from the soul.

[horseflesh]

If our souls contain the memories then why would our brains need to be a 'conduit' of our soul and mind ?, is that not saying that the soul needs a brain to remember and think, therefore our souls cannot contain memories ?.

[i_am]

I often ponder on whether our souls have memories. Memories are stored in the brain, you can see this when people experience amnesia due to brain damage. If our souls contained memories then this could not happen.


Interesting line of thought. Could it be just due to the trauma to the brain caused by damage to the parts of the brain which trigger the memory. The same thing happens in the case of a very bad accident of some sort. People cannot actually remember the incident. Something blocks the recall. There is no damage to the brain necessarily, but there is no memory. I am sure that the memory resides at a higher consciousness but it is blocked due to physical or emotional trauma.

I can relate to this as I have had the experience. I was involved in a serious accident and had no recall of the actual impact and the seconds before it. One day in a semi conscious dream state, I saw the whole thing quite clearly. I related what I saw and was correct in the details. I then 'forgot' again and have never since had that recall, only what I had written down. So although my brain does not allow access to that area, at one, and only one, time it came through. From where If not a higher level of our consciousness?

[horseflesh]

But like I said above, if our souls contain the memories then why do our brains need to even be part of the process ?.

Also if our souls contain memories and past life memories are real, therefore meaning that we have all lived before countless times before with our memories intact, then why don't we all remember past lives ?.

[misscpb]

But like I said above, if our souls contain the memories then why do our brains need to even be part of the process ?.

Also if our souls contain memories and past life memories are real, therefore meaning that we have all lived before countless times before with our memories intact, then why don't we all remember past lives ?.

I think that the purpose of the brain is like a computer just to process information coming from a persons own spirit/soul whilst the spirit is living in a human body experiencing life on earth. When you look at mediums who contact people who have passed away, the person who is dead has no brain because it has either been cremated or indeed buried and has rotten away, so how can the person communicate without the brain. They communicate via their energy body with their own spirit/soul to mediums who are sensitive and able to tune into that energy frequency.

With regards to not remembering past lives that is something that I have always thought of and have found various explanations that we are not supposed to remember them because we are here to learn new experiences, emotions and mastering new lessons to again help with our ascension and enlightenment.

[awakensong]

I think that the purpose of the brain is like a computer just to process information coming from a persons own spirit/soul whilst the spirit is living in a human body experiencing life on earth. When you look at mediums who contact people who have passed away, the person who is dead has no brain because it has either been cremated or indeed buried and has rotten away, so how can the person communicate without the brain. They communicate via their energy body with their own spirit/soul to mediums who are sensitive and able to tune into that energy frequency.

Yes, this is how I see it, too. The brain is a physical mechanism to process what is in the soul, just as the body is the physical manifestation of the soul.

With regards to not remembering past lives that is something that I have always thought of and have found various explanations that we are not supposed to remember them because we are here to learn new experiences, emotions and mastering new lessons to again help with our ascension and enlightenment.

Many people do remember, though, and I have heard that the more memory of past lives that is returning, the more integrated the spirit and soul (binary soul/ Division Theory, should such be true) are becoming, and the sooner the process of reincarnation will be over.

[misscpb]

Yes, this is how I see it, too. The brain is a physical mechanism to process what is in the soul, just as the body is the physical manifestation of the soul.



Many people do remember, though, and I have heard that the more memory of past lives that is returning, the more integrated the spirit and soul (binary soul/ Division Theory, should such be true) are becoming, and the sooner the process of reincarnation will be over.

:p :) ;)

[sweet cheeks]

http://montalk.net/matrix/62/matrix-agents-profiles-and-analysis-part-i

In-depth look at organic portals and reanimated humans.

Good info on this site.

Main page - http://montalk.net/

[awakensong]

How about that? Just a little while ago, before seeing this, I posted a link to the montalk site on another thread - I think it's "The Unanswered Question". :D

As they say, great minds think alike!:)

[jenkalichen]

If you have a soul you have exited the Human collective and have become immortal. Humans are mortal and in the process of killing themselves off. My Prophecies: The Next US president will be worse than Bush, Bush failed to show the american people that he truly represents them, he is: all their inner evil exposed. Their true representative is Bush and his crew. Had they recognized his flaws as their own and changed for the better, they would have a better president, but now, because they think themselves perfect, the next one will be even worse. A military commander, a Mossad AL operative will be placed as president, possibly without being elected in the normal way, because there will be War on US soil by 2008. Civil wars will follow. The US will be systematically striped of anything of value, intentionally before Yellowstone blows, by the russian and chinese and South american invaders. The TV brainwashed population will be sent to internment camps used as slave labor to accomplish that, all prisoners from prisons will become chipped slaves. They don't want to be chipped, but they are already programmed robots. There will be no water or electricity in the US and it will go bankrupt. Inflation will be so high nothing can be bought, or sold. The dollar will be worthless and no longer exist as a currency. What Americans did out of greed and complete sociopathic lack of conscience to the good innocent people of Iraq, and Afghanistan will happen here to the US by natural disasters. The one law of the Universe prevails: You will receive back what you CHOOSE give. Americans think that Bush chose for them, they do not realize that their code of ethics (or lack of) is personified in Bush. Once a choice has been made nothing can change the result, Karma is nature's mirror of truth. Humans choose, Nature can not choose. Nature can only mirror back your truth, so you can see how 'good' that choice really was. You are nothing more than the evil choices you make, good or evil dependent on how developed your conscience is. When you do evil, you always believe it is good if it selfishly profits you in status, prestige, or money, no matter who else it harms. That Choice to do evil will be returned by nature, in a way that is not implemented by human choice, but is the direct result (reaping) of a previous human choice. It will be natural disasters including diseases. Before the Earth becomes uninhabitable through a combination of major Natural disasters, (Yellowstone Super Volcano, a pole shift caused by the continued diminishment of its magnetic field) the Human population will all die from Radiation poisoning. Nuclear War and accidents will destroy man not only in the flesh, but in spirit also. Nuclear war can not destroy Souls, but none of you have souls, if you did you wouldn't be dangerous violent deadly animals (the Beast). The rest of the Universe does not want Human beings to exist. They do not support violent evil insane beings. They can't understand how you refuse to be chipped, when you accept and inflict all other forms of enslavement and even glorify them, such as religion, capitalism and prisons etc. You all complain we don't want the chip, but you are already brainwashed robots if you watch TV or Movies. Humans are too destructive and dangerous to be allowed to continue. What do you think the detention centers are for? They are where you will be turned into robots where you will become slaves. There are forces in the universe who are benign and good, In the rest of the universe, to be jesus like and continue to evolve into better than Jesus, is the norm and sadistic violent cruel selfish evil arrogant beings like you do not exist. These beings are looking forward to the final annihilation of Human beings as a species, because you are incapable of evolution. You will never be loving benign beings, you continually become more evil and insane. Then you blame the reptilians when they are merely projections of you, an attempt to make you change. But you refuse to see the truth and blame shift like they shape shift. It is beyond your capacity to admit you are flawed and when you become better Nature will mirror back something other than horrible and violent and insane Hell of suffering, (the truth about all of you). This is the end, your allotted time to evolve is up. You will kill yourselves off soon in the final total war on Earth. WWIII has already begun, it will be the mirror of what you did after WWII. That cycle of planting will now be followed by reaping the same. All the torture in South America? Vietnam? Algeria? Africa? Asia? It will all return to you as the nightmare of WWIII. It will all come back to the givers as their truth, by the hand of Nature without human choice. If any beings are preserved they will be the Jains, some of the brown and yellow races, that have evolved and have the capacity for brotherly love. The original red race will be removed from Earth before it is over. What Humans will never know, among many things is that from the beginning you were given two opposite examples, Good and Evil. The original Red race was the example of good, the correct way to live and love one another and the Earth. The Jews who are not a race but a combination of all 4 races with some awful DNA added, are the wrong example to follow. Selfishness devoid of love. Fearful, and violent insane egomaniacs who regress rather than evolve, the true nature of the Beast personified insatiable greed. Lust full of violent destructive sneaky deceptive strategies to all in order to get more. They believe that if they are smart enough to contrive and carry out their evil plans then that means they are superior and they deserve it. Never knowing the reality that they are evil and Hell will be their only reward, so they are stupid, people who lie become so stupid they eventually fool themselves into destroying themselves. You get back what you give. That is the only Law of reality. Humans can choose-Nature cannot choose, Nature mirrors back the truth of the good or evil of every evil selfish choice you delusional and insane humans make. The Jews are the Example you all choose to emulate. Society only advanced in art and evolution during times that the Jews were expelled from society. What you call advances now in the era of Jewish acceptance is not advancement but your technological poison the eventual utter destruction of the Planet. It will be those who see the evil there who will be spared, by perhaps creating a soul out of Love. Those who support Evil will be wiped out of existence and good riddance to evil. There is a law of the Universe that like attracts like. Evil will always choose evil. Israel and all those who support Israel are already Dead, as in 'Mystery Babalon'. The US will become a hellhole worse than any third world country on the next few years. May 2010 the bottom will drop out of the american fantasy of superiority. The tables are about to turn. When you suffer know that that is the suffering you imposed on others so that you might selfishly gain at their expense. When you suffer know that you chose to follow the way of the Jews rather than the way of Love, and honoring the Earth, the way of the red race. There is no turning back now the choices have already been made. The cycle is over now see what you have been busy doing to others as it comes back to be done to you. You who do evil to others, and lie telling yourselves it is good, because it profits your pocketbooks and egos. You who have no souls, will find that your spirit is mortal. Only Love can create an immortal soul, and you who only covet, ego embellishment, status and power over others, and wealth cannot love, you are beasts and you will receive the mark. You are dependent on the enslavement of others to satisfy your lusts, and you will become robots-slaves in return. Your ethic is that anything no matter how harmful it is to others or to the earth is good right and acceptable as long as you yourselves profit somehow from it. That would be your, prisons, economic system of predatory inequality you call capitalism, wars, poverty. If it adds glitter to your egos it is valuable to you, no matter how phony, pretentious, or superficial, it is. Egos are as fake as money. Only a soul is immortal and forever and lasts after death. The story in the Bible about the exodus from Eden says it all: God who is all of you combined you collectively in spirit form, does not want you to have knowledge of good or evil right or wrong. He wants instead to be the decider, to dictate as a control freak what you do or do not do based on his ability to force you all to submit and obey. This is still the pretext of Christianity the insane religion. Do gods will, God is Good. God is not good that controlling nature is the nature of the Beast, that nature that you worship will get you all chipped, it is the mark of the Beast. Why do you not comprehend that it is always evil if it harms anyone? Why can you not see the truth that it is evil to impose your will on anyone? Why can you not see the truth that you are all truly evil monsters and that you are all god and therefore god is evil? Because the Jews have convinced you that God is (id) Good and must be obeyed. What does the original Red race teach you? That what you do good or evil-right or wrong will be returned to you like for like, so honor the earth and love each other. The Jews want you to worship and obey, the omnipotent control freak- God, who is an angry, jealous, and a falsely proud egotist. No amount of what I say will change your inherent inner nature. Like chooses like. The human race as a species can not go on or continue, you will never have souls because you can not love one another. You can only destroy, lie, be continually dissatisfied no matter how and to what lengths you pursue your lusts-the seven deadly sins. Humans are Deadly creatures as in if you Kill you will never have an immortal soul. Only the Jains have a correct view on reality. They are aware that there is no God, that you are all collectively a mortal spirit, and only through the elimination of the evil in yourselves will you be free to become immortals. Jesus stated that you can all be Gods, somehow this has been omitted from modern Bibles. A long time ago, some of you were taken to the Betelgeuse Star system, there you were carefully trained like monkeys to be good these beings were sent back to try to help the rest of the collective, Jesus was one of those people, so was david Icke, what happened was they quickly reverted to the old ways rather than converting others to the good. When Jesus spoke of my father in Heaven, he meant literally in Heaven in space on his planet in Betelgeuse. There Evolution took place, Gods - more evolved beings intervened to help these few humans evolve. They Nutured and protected them like their own children or pets. Just as it used to happen on Earth, before the Gods gave up on you. Just as you should be doing with the animals of Earth instead of torturing and abusing and eating them. Jesus was reincarnated a Julius Tiberius emperor of Rome as Prince Rudolph of Austria, and as Hitler. He lives now he was born in Feb 1962 at the conjunction (stellium) of seven planets in Aquarius, (just as Jean Dixon prophesised) he grew up in wilton Ct the son of a jewish naturapathic Dr. Who changed his last name to Jordan. He became a drug addict, and had to flee the US to Canada rather than spend 50 years in Jail. He is nothing now, he has given up trying to be a missiah, He dispises you who are all collectively one insipid Antichrist lunatic. You will get the onlyAntichrist because the antichrist mirrors your inner truth. Evolved beings do behave like Jesus only better, when these trained monkeys returned evolved they immediately regressed back to beasts. Jesus has been many people and some of them completely insane and cruel, but always he wanted to rule as king on Earth, to dominate others. Human beings will never evolve, you will only eventually become so destructive that you destroy yourselves, your spirit itself. It will be destroyed by Nuclear war. When you split an atom you destroy spirit also. That is all you are capable of amounting to. Self-annihilation. All the attributes you give to Satan are all attributes of you yourselves. You are hypocritical, mean spirited cruel sadists with no conscience who love to play who is top dog in the pecking order and that is all. You lie steal destroy and do tremendous damage to others and the Earth. You are not creative or Loving. You can not give unless you get more in return. You are incredibly stupid compared to other beings in the universe. There is absolutely no hope for the Human race, all your hope is false hope, based on your false pride that you are all really good deep down inside, that god is declared Good no questions asked. No proof necessary, all proof to the contrary dismissed. The original red race, is not Human, they are not from Earth, before the pole-shift they will leave here, they will be transported off. Humans will become robots or they will die of radiation poisoning. There is no alternative available. There is obvious evidence of alien visitation, Yet you are shunned by these beings. Because they all despise you as a species. They see you as you truly are. You can not even feel shame or remorse for what you are, you cannot recognize your own evil so you will never overcome it and evolve. That is because you each have your own ridiculous version of right and wrong-good and evil, that is not based on any truth but only on personal selfish gain. You will not see truth. Enlightenment is awareness of the truth. Enlightenment is evolution. As long as you believe the lie that God is-one being separate from and other than you all, who is perfect and good; rather than who it truthfully is-all of you evil as you are in need of change (evolution) you will never evolve. As long as you blame the shape shifting Reptilians who came from Betelgeuse, but are you all for the evil on Earth you will be lost. They were regressed back from goodness to evil by you. They are you all even worse. They are the expression of what way you as a collective are heading towards. They are your own faces in the mirror of the future. A future so evil it no longer exists. Only what is good born of love lives forever, what is evil dies by its own hand, evil begets only evil. The wages of sin is death. The alien presence is only here to remove the original red race before nuclear war begins. There are some who want to turn you into robots too, before you kill yourselves off, a kind of recycling-'waist not philosophy' they take only your bodies as the dead spirit is removed. All the internment camps are above alien bases, those who end up there will become robots they will be chipped. The fabric you are all made of, your collective spirit is mortal, you had the opportunity to elevate yourself to immortals, but you failed miserably, because love is not a part of you, what you call love is merely ego glitter. You are all hideous deep down inside. In David's Book Robots Rebellion, on page 5 he says that the human consciousness has the capacity for Love and compassion. What a crock of shit. You as a species have been watched and monitored throughout history. There is no evidence of that being true, quite the contrary is true. Just because some of you were removed and trained like monkeys to temporarily be like Jesus does not mean that as soon as you are returned to your original herd you will not quickly revert and become a power hungry Christ. The Jews have won because you are all Jews. The jews are the combination of the black-brown-yellow and white race. You are all Jews and like attracts like. Humans have not and never will evolve, you have no Gods because you are the lepers of the Universe. Gods coming here to help you would be like you taking cockroaches as pets. You are sickening cretins, monsters who blame reptilians for everything you yourselves are guilty of, instead of going to the root of the problem and changing your own inner nature which is pure concentrated evil. If you were not evil, no creature would be confined to a cage, no one would be in prison, there would be no wars, there would be no poverty, no economic inequality and the arts would flourish. All suffering would be abolished. This is the norm on other planets and moons. There are beings who make it their number one priority to have no suffering in their worlds. Then there are Human Beings who make it there number one priority to profit off of all the suffering they can cause others and consider themselves superior for coming up with a plan to accomplish it. Those who rule on Earth in a cruel and sadistic dictatorship are the ones humans idealize and obey and become the backbone of-the police and soildiers of, the violent hand of. Face the truth, the violent hand of evil is more evil than evil. There are beings here who once evolved who once had gods and goddesses to help them. They were hopefuls, and some of their gods took pity and took them to another planet to try to help them evolve. When they were sent back they all reverted. They never created their own souls. There are still some of them who want to help mankind, like Jesus attempted to do but failed miserably at, especially when he was Hitler. They have the savior complex, and they will likely try until the very end because they feel death of their brethren moving closer, and they once witnessed the immortals, the Gods and Goddesses who treated them like pets with great love. They have witnessed grate love, but the sad fact is that no matter how much love is given, Humans will only take, they will never give love, to actually love is beyond human capacity. If any of you did you would be considered insane by your fellow men. Some of the Jains, Hopi and Tibetans alone are aware of the truth, they remnants of the original red Race they are not human and their ways are rejected by all mankind? Mankind could never live in peace, do no harm and respect the right of each other and other life forms to free will. They could never share equally the earth, and live in equality and freedom. They can not love. They only want and crave the exact opposite. They want to rule over each other and deny anyone the right to free will by dictating choice. Like God in the Garden of Eden, only you are all worse beasts now than then. Obedience to your will is all you consider good just like the insane evil God you all worship as perfect love. Jen Chen

[mickyjay]

No, it is my firm belief that women are souless and are here for the sole purpose of making men become unclean, and forfeit thier right to eternal paradise.

[seamus]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

so, uh, what do you base this belief upon?

s

[awakensong]

When Jesus was Hitler? How would anyone make a connection like that and what does it say about them?

Two of the most frequently taught things about consciousness are: It never judges others, for that is judging itself, and "Consciousness is silent because it has nothing to say" (David Icke). "You are the silence between your thoughts" - (David Icke "Infinite Love is the Only Truth").

I do say, though, that there is a difference between a person with a conscience and one without, one who lives responsibly and one who does not, regardless of what is believed about a soul or how it is defined.

[sweet cheeks]

No, it is my firm belief that women are souless and are here for the sole purpose of making men become unclean, and forfeit thier right to eternal paradise.


What would eternal paradise be without women?

Who you gonna hump? Another man? :confused:

Hmm....I think I see you really now, the way you are! You must be gay! :D

Are you?

[stikmata]

What would eternal paradise be without women?

Who you gonna hump? Another man? :confused:

Hmm....I think I see you really now, the way you are! You must be gay! :D

Are you?

i was under the impression that "eternal paradise" had to do w/ transcending the physical density and the inherent duality which resides there... such as genders.

BTW, this comes from a pink, not brown holer

[stikmata]

hey jenkalichen... please do another edit and break that into paragraphs... that is, if you feel you wrote something important that people should read... you should throw some paragraphs in there.

thanks

[sweet cheeks]

i was under the impression that "eternal paradise" had to do w/ transcending the physical density and the inherent duality which resides there... such as genders.

BTW, this comes from a pink, not brown holer

Well, yeah, IF you believe in that type thing. ;) :D

[rambleblatt]

I can't even vote in this poll as it requires a belief in the airy-fairy concept of 'soul'

[houdini]

how the bloody hell are ya sposed to know the answer to that question?

does the body have a soul?

how the crap would anyone know that?

[fryertuck]

1)how the fuck would anyone know?
2)what does it fucking matter?
3)why not make the most of this life? :)

[trinity1]

People don't have souls, people are soul. Singular.

[rambleblatt]

People don't have souls, people are soul. Singular.

What does that mean?

[trinity1]

What does that mean?

Hi rambleblatt :)

It means as it says, there is only one soul. We may all have separate physical bodies but the consciousness that inhabits those bodies is the same in each of us. We don't each have separate consciousness do we? No, there is one consciousness, one soul, one life force.

The question asked by SITM in this poll is ridiculous. How can anybody not have soul? If they didn't they wouldn't be... It's like saying that something can possibly exist that wasn't made by god.

[jimijams]

What does that mean?
I think she said you aresoul!:p

[rambleblatt]

Hi rambleblatt :)

It means as it says, there is only one soul. We may all have separate physical bodies but the consciousness that inhabits those bodies is the same in each of us. We don't each have separate consciousness do we? No, there is one consciousness, one soul, one life force.

The question asked by SITM in this poll is ridiculous. How can anybody not have soul? If they didn't they wouldn't be... It's like saying that something can possibly exist that wasn't made by god.

So we are all one - wonderful, are you looking forward to being chipped? And why is it that we will all then just collapse down and allow this spreading toxicity of selfish ignorance to invade our minds - when we are all joined as one, either by a chip or some vortex cloud beamed at us by a Lemurian crystal?

Do you really have any idea about this, or is it just parroted from some other channeling hogwash?

[rambleblatt]

I think she said you aresoul!:p

:D Is it insulting? Perhaps I should report it? :rolleyes:

[jimijams]

:D Is it insulting? Perhaps I should report it? :rolleyes:
Extremely, should be worth six points!http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/5480/nonogx6.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[trinity1]

So we are all one - wonderful, are you looking forward to being chipped? And why is it that we will all then just collapse down and allow this spreading toxicity of selfish ignorance to invade our minds - when we are all joined as one, either by a chip or some vortex cloud beamed at us by a Lemurian crystal?

Do you really have any idea about this, or is it just parroted from some other channeling hogwash?

tut tut. Please refrain from making assumptions about my beliefs. Instead of being rude you could have just asked.

Firstly for your information, I'm not keen on "channelled" information. I prefer to search my own inner universe for clues before searching the internet for what the leaders of the nibiru council think. However I will make an exception for the Abraham-Hicks info.

What does microchipping have to do with the oneness of all life? And did I say that because we are one we should "collapse down" and allow this? No I don't think I mentioned that anywhere in my post.

Are you one of those people who think that anything containing the word "one" is bad because it is contained in the phrase "One World Government"? You ARE aren't you! I've met a lot of people with that opinion, and it's still as silly now as it was then. You are one with everything in the universe, even if your ego tries to convince you otherwise - microchip or no.

Study up a little on quantum physics, you might learn something. ;)

[jimijams]

However I will make an exception for the Abraham-Hicks info. I downloaded that of the other forum the other day and didn't vibe with it much at all and her shrill voice made me very uneasy..

[rambleblatt]

tut tut. Please refrain from making assumptions about my beliefs. Instead of being rude you could have just asked.

Firstly for your information, I'm not keen on "channelled" information. I prefer to search my own inner universe for clues before searching the internet for what the leaders of the nibiru council think. However I will make an exception for the Abraham-Hicks info.

What does microchipping have to do with the oneness of all life? And did I say that because we are one we should "collapse down" and allow this? No I don't think I mentioned that anywhere in my post.

Are you one of those people who think that anything containing the word "one" is bad because it is contained in the phrase "One World Government"? You ARE aren't you! I've met a lot of people with that opinion, and it's still as silly now as it was then. You are one with everything in the universe, even if your ego tries to convince you otherwise - microchip or no.

Study up a little on quantum physics, you might learn something. ;)

Okay you have beLIEfs - what on earth would evidence have to do with anything for you - you examine things to confirm your beliefs? Your 'inner universe' provides you with your answers. Great, another one of those. You are a follower of the Firm Priests - all these 'truth' rules concocted from ignorance and palliative parroting of science, as though that confirms a belief. And you should make no assumptions regarding my knowledge of 'Quantum Physics'. Embarrassingly what you are actually 'synthesizing' in your mind from the much quacked thesis & antithesis is a 'theory' from a misunderstanding of String Theory, not Quantum Physics. I can give you a link to Amazon for "Quantum Physics for Dummies' so you can at least appear to know something about it.

[seamus]

OOh can i get one of those?


s

[trinity1]

Okay you have beLIEfs - what on earth would evidence have to do with anything for you - you examine things to confirm your beliefs? Your 'inner universe' provides you with your answers. Great, another one of those. You are a follower of the Firm Priests - all these 'truth' rules concocted from ignorance and palliative parroting of science, as though that confirms a belief. And you should make no assumptions regarding my knowledge of 'Quantum Physics'. Embarrassingly what you are actually 'synthesizing' in your mind from the much quacked thesis & antithesis is a 'theory' from a misunderstanding of String Theory, not Quantum Physics. I can give you a link to Amazon for "Quantum Physics for Dummies' so you can at least appear to know something about it.


Belief was merely a word I used which was as good as any other in the circumstances so let's not get into semantics.

I examine myself to confirm what's inside and I don't need string theory or quantum physics to tell me anything about that and neither am I a "follower" of any particular body of knowledge . All that stuff really is is humans giving fancy labels to something they can't explain.

Regarding "ignorance", I agree that that is probably the best way to describe the state that the human mind (including yours, believe it or not) finds itself in with regard to these matters. Nothing we write can be anywhere near truth, but being humans we like to try to approximate our own versions of truth and perhaps even have fun trying. As such, your high and mighty tone of address is completely redundant.

[arm_and_hammer]

psychobabble prom queen :)

[trinity1]

psychobabble prom queen :)

Care to elaborate? :)

[arm_and_hammer]

what would be the point
you wouldnt fucking get the point :o

[rambleblatt]

Belief was merely a word I used which was as good as any other in the circumstances so let's not get into semantics.

I examine myself to confirm what's inside and I don't need string theory or quantum physics to tell me anything about that and neither am I a "follower" of any particular body of knowledge . All that stuff really is is humans giving fancy labels to something they can't explain.

Regarding "ignorance", I agree that that is probably the best way to describe the state that the human mind (including yours, believe it or not) finds itself in with regard to these matters. Nothing we write can be anywhere near truth, but being humans we like to try to approximate our own versions of truth and perhaps even have fun trying. As such, your high and mighty tone of address is completely redundant.

You classically follow the followers. Your choice to the previous post was either to post nothing, or attack the individual. Your excuse is that some inner power guides you correctly, and anything anyone else says to you appears to be ridicule to you. That means you have to ignore them, and follow you inner universe. Ignor(e)-ance, it is the definition and etymology of the word, thank you for demonstrating it so clearly.

[trinity1]

You classically follow the followers. Your choice to the previous post was either to post nothing, or attack the individual. Your excuse is that some inner power guides you correctly, and anything anyone else says to you appears to be ridicule to you. That means you have to ignore them, and follow you inner universe. Ignor(e)-ance, it is the definition and etymology of the word, thank you for demonstrating it so clearly.

I classically follow... myself. If you had any knowledge of me aside from this computer screen you would know that. Other people's opinions interest me and sometimes help me to see things from a different perspective but at the end of the day, the only perspective that matters is mine, in that you are correct.

I'm keen to know which part of my previous post you perceived as an attack?

[rambleblatt]

I classically follow... myself. If you had any knowledge of me aside from this computer screen you would know that. Other people's opinions interest me and sometimes help me to see things from a different perspective but at the end of the day, the only perspective that matters is mine, in that you are correct.

I'm keen to know which part of my previous post you perceived as an attack?

This is a forum, where ideas are exchanged in writing, the results of which are displayed on the screen - that is then used to form our own ideas about the post. That is the confine of this forum. I suggest you use your inner universe to divine anything else you care to 'know', I am sure you will feel much better with an answer you have fed yourself, that way there is no need for you to think. You can stay on an even keel, tow the line, square the circle and whatever else you feel you need to do to make yourself comfortable. I doubt if I met you I would 'know' you are any deeper than you have freely displayed here in the forum, but I remain open to that vauge possibility.

[trinity1]

This is a forum, where ideas are exchanged in writing, the results of which are displayed on the screen - that is then used to form our own ideas about the post. That is the confine of this forum. I suggest you use your inner universe to divine anything else you care to 'know', I am sure you will feel much better with an answer you have fed yourself, that way there is no need for you to think. You can stay on an even keel, tow the line, square the circle and whatever else you feel you need to do to make yourself comfortable. I doubt if I met you I would 'know' you are any deeper than you have freely displayed here in the forum, but I remain open to that vauge possibility.

You are very good at manipulating words in order for it to appear that I said the complete opposite of what I actually did say.

Not once did I mention anything at all regarding how "deep" or otherwise I might be. I was merely pointing out that your presumption that I "follow the followers" is quite unfounded because you don't know me. It isn't good to make presumptions about people based on their postings on an internet forum. Therefore I am currently doing my level best not to presume that your sneering cynicism is YOUR own way of making yourself feel better about yourself.

[rambleblatt]

You are very good at manipulating words in order for it to appear that I said the complete opposite of what I actually did say.

Not once did I mention anything at all regarding how "deep" or otherwise I might be. I was merely pointing out that your presumption that I "follow the followers" is quite unfounded because you don't know me. It isn't good to make presumptions about people based on their postings on an internet forum. Therefore I am currently doing my level best not to presume that your sneering cynicism is YOUR own way of making yourself feel better about yourself.

Just follow your inner universe, believe what you like. Enjoy.

[stikmata]

i'm highjacking the poll

Yes, I'm 100% sure that Trinity does not follow.
Yes, I'm 90-99% sure that Trinity does not follow.
Yes, I'm 80-89% sure that Trinity does not follow.
Yes, I'm 70-79% sure that Trinity does not follow.
Yes, I'm 60-69% sure that Trinity does not follow.
Yes, I'm 50-59% sure that Trinity does not follow.
Yes, I'm 35-49% sure that Trinity does not follow.
Yes, I'm 20-34% sure that Trinity does not follow.
Yes, I'm 1-19% sure that Trinity does not follow.

[awakensong]

http://montalk.net/matrix/62/matrix-agents-profiles-and-analysis-part-i

Good info on this site.

Main page - http://montalk.net/

I like reading at their site, but I keep in mind that they are a combination of Oneness and Theosophy. I'm not sure that it's really an issue about "having a soul" so much as it's an issue about everything being Consciousness, which is all that can and does exist. For me, the soul goes more into having an actual conscience and being a responsible Human.

Theosophy teaches that matter is spirit (Consciousness) that has crystalized, and that all spirit is potential matter.

There's a nice quote from William Blake that says "Tell me not whether a man is good or evil, but whether he is a wise man or a fool".

Mainstream Christianity, as conflicting and contradictory as it is in its core, teaches to "love the sinner, but hate the sin". I can see where it is appropriate to acknowledge the Consciousness in every man, while discerning the actions of the person, while we ourselves are being "wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove".

Sometimes an activist campaining "against" something can actually be projecting the very behavior of which they say they are not in favor.

[chandrakavi]

I listened to Tsarion on the Jeff Rense show on 1-17-07 and I couldn't believe what the two of them agreed on...

Not all people on earth have souls, they said. Wow, I've never heard that before.

I believe that all people have souls, I'm 90-99% sure of it. :)

Gurdjieff used to say that we are born without a soul.
You only get to have a soul if you work on that piece of chunk to refine it.
if you do nothing about it, it's that simple, YOU DO NOT HAVE A SOUL, you didn't work in refining it.:rolleyes:
it's not automatic....

It's true everyone has a soul or ATMAN more precisely,
it was Gurdjieff's way of saying: "you have to earn it or it won't be yours".

[synergy777]

i think soul is from sol/sun. we should say spirit or atman. everybody has a spirit.

[devin]

Tsarion: ...If you look in the eyes of most young people today, you don't see a soul, Jeff. You don't see a person in there anymore.


If you look in Tsarion's eyes you'll notice that they divert from the camera every time he says something outlandish. This was a radio show so you obviously can't confirm this for this particular statement but I bet ya he did!

Man they will stop at nothing to divide and conquer.

[awakensong]

i think soul is from sol/sun. we should say spirit or atman. everybody has a spirit.
Yes, it would be best to have a working definition of this word "soul". Here are a few I have found:

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/soul (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/soul)
Main Entry: 1soul http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?soul0001.wav=soul')) Pronunciation: \ˈsōl\ Function: noun Etymology: Middle English soule, from Old English sāwol; akin to Old High German sēula soul Date: before 12th century
1: the immaterial essence, animating principle, or actuating cause of an individual life
2 a: the spiritual principle embodied in human beings, all rational and spiritual beings : god (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/god)
3: a person's total self
4 a: an active or essential part b: a moving spirit : leader (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/leader)
5 a: the moral and emotional nature of human beings b: the quality that arouses emotion and sentiment c: spiritual or moral force : fervor (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/fervor)
6: person (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/person) <not a soul in sight>
7: personification (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/personification) <she is the soul of integrity>

Learn more about "soul" (http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9068791/soul) and related topics at Britannica.com (http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9068791/soul)

http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/mind.html (http://<a href=)
While the origin of the English word soul is obscure, the word almost certainly had its origin in a word which meant 'breath' or 'wind' or 'air', or something like that. The word spirit — generally a synonym for soul — comes from the Latin spiritus, and clearly meant 'breath' originally. Spiritual and respiratory both derive from the same root!

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1B1-379138.html (http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1B1-379138.html)
Immaterial aspect or essence of a person, conjoined with the body during life and separable at death. The concept of a soul is found in nearly all cultures and religions, though the interpretations of its nature vary considerably. The ancient Egyptians conceived of a dual soul, one surviving death but remaining near the body, while the other proceeded to the realm of the dead. The early Hebrews did not consider the soul as distinct from the body, but later Jewish writers perceived the two as separate. Christian theology adopted the Greek concept of an immortal soul, adding the notion that God created the soul and infused it into the body at conception. In Islam the soul is believed to come into existence at the same time as the body but is everlasting and subject to eternal bliss or torment after the death of the body. In Hinduism (http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1B1-367122.html) each soul, or atman, was created at the beginning of time and imprisoned in an earthly body; at death the soul is said to pass to a new body according to the laws of karma (http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1B1-368947.html). Buddhism (http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1B1-358217.html) negates the idea of a soul, asserting that any sense of an individual self is illusory.

[trumansho]

People that don't go through birth naturally def don't have souls like these clones.

[awakensong]

Perhaps just as important is a working definition of what Gurdjieff taught and believed.

http://r.hodges.home.comcast.net/~r.hodges/G/G.html

George Ivanovitch Gurdjieff (1866?-1949) was born in Russian Armenia. He spent years searching in Central Asia, North Africa, and other places for a hidden tradition whose traces he had encountered in youth. During this search he came into contact with certain esoteric schools. In the early 1900's he brought to Europe a teaching that he had developed from the results of this contact.

Gurdjieff's basic teaching is that human life is lived in waking sleep; transcendence of the sleeping state requires a specific inner work, which is practiced in private quiet conditions, and in the midst of life with others. This leads to otherwise inaccessible levels of vitality and awareness.

Though Gurdjieff's name has become familiar in recent years, the real nature of his work is still little known. The Way of Gurdjieff is an oral tradition. The understanding of his work can only be received by direct contact between teacher and pupil, and by the work of pupils together in organised groups. Under conditions of a special atmosphere of trust that can exist in such a group, people working together learn to face their own inner poverty and confusion. Working in this way, conscience is awakened along with consciousness. Consciousness, Conscience, and Sensation form the tripod upon which an integrated development of human potential must be based.

Gurdjieff prepared a nucleus of people to be able to transmit his teaching after his death. This nucleus with the assistance of others who have subsequently been prepared maintains a series of centers throughout the world where Gurdjieff's methods are practiced.

For an introduction to the teaching of Gurdjieff, see G. I. Gurdjieff and His School (http://r.hodges.home.comcast.net/~r.hodges/G/html/School.html), by Jacob Needleman.

For further study, there are several valuable Books (http://r.hodges.home.comcast.net/~r.hodges/G/html/GBooks.html) by Gurdjieff and his key pupils.

Another article: Gurdjieff In America (http://r.hodges.home.comcast.net/~r.hodges/G/html/G-baker.html), by G. Baker (g.baker@energia.com) and W. Driscoll (walterdriscoll@telus.net). (http://r.hodges.home.comcast.net/~r.hodges/G/html/G-baker.html#History)
===
Then there is Morauvieff who argues in "Gnosis" that our actions and responses to this world are basically mechanical. Comment from someone at Amazon.com: We identify ourselves with those thoughts and actions and put the label "I" on them, thus giving them authorship. However, it would be more correct to speak of many "I"s. And, if we are truthful with ourselves, we will admit that these actions and thoughts do not proceed from our will but sort of "happen to us"....

"In order for consciousness to grow, life must be engaged consciously and not avoided. To do so, one must be a conscious participant and not just a disinterested actor (as Mouravieff suggests). For an example of what I mean, please see the wonderful film by Wim Wenders, "The Wings of Desire".

[jimijams]

Thanks for all that info awakensong, I find Gurdjieff fascinating, I once attempted to read Beelzebub’s Tales to His Grandson but failed miserably by about the fifth chapter. Some of those books you posted look like an easier introduction to his work, might try giving one of those a go.

Love jimi..

[optimus pigpot]

Black people, throughout the world , Mongoloid, Asian, Indian, Chinese and all the Yellows plus Kikes and South American Latino's, especially any fucking race that's not accepted Jesus is fucked.......... Without doubt the dirrrrrrrrrrrrty renaging French wankers... They are shit .....

But come on, it's that little island, in the North Atlantic, called Britain that you all want to blame for the worlds evils' because you can't prove anything else.

Yes, Britain was to blame for the past but now it's gone, Leave it the fuck alone......

Yeah let's wait till Trumansho appears and I'll lay waste to another mere human being.................

Fuck RACISM Bro,.................


Op, out............

[neutron flux]

Thanks for all that info awakensong, I find Gurdjieff fascinating, I once attempted to read Beelzebub’s Tales to His Grandson but failed miserably by about the fifth chapter. Some of those books you posted look like an easier introduction to his work, might try giving one of those a go.

Love jimi..

Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson is probably the hardest of all the Gurdjieff's works and Gurdjieff himself says that it should be read three times, first as if reading the newspaper, next as if reading aloud and only then with the goal of understanding. Once for the mechanical part of thinking, once for the moving center, once for 'being mentation.'

A good introduction to the work is probably "In Search of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky.

[rossus]

i'm not sure if any one even has a individual soul,
that evolves or whatever.

if a plant dies, what happens to "it's soul" ?
if an ant dies, what happens to "it's soul"?

i'm more inclined to believe, there's only 1 soul.
the soul of the universe, and it expresses itself in billions of different forms.
both "dead matter" and "living organism".

so when the human gets born, lives, or dies.
no soul get's reincarnated.. there's only the birth and death of a physical human body.

and the soul never gets born, it never dies..
it just makes the whole cosmic theatre possible... or something.
but i admit, i don't know myself :)