Freemasons are "Coincidence theorist's"

[banoyes]

David Icke calls them "Coincidence theorist's"

[url]http://www.edgemediatv.com/article001_icke.html ("http://www.edgemediatv.com/article001_icke.html" [/URL)

You can look through this site and see how many
"coincidences" there are

You will not find a Freemason who will admit there is a patern and connections that are,after inspection, proven.
They will each and all, refuse to give credence to any information,no matter how many independent sources..
At one point in history 5 of the 9 Supreme Court Justices were Freemasons
all of the public "employment"
All of the Lords and Ladys

All of it is a "coincidence"
So
I see "How do I become a mason thread.
I think that is a good question

[keystone]

Mornin' Ben

Welcome back again. Thats all I want to say.

[element]

I see "How do I become a mason thread.
I think that is a good question

You have to believe in coincidences.

''Nothing to worry about'' ehh. :D

[thelucifer]

David Icke calls them "Coincidence theorist's"

[url]http://www.edgemediatv.com/article001_icke.html ("http://www.edgemediatv.com/article001_icke.html" [/URL)

You can look through this site and see how many
"coincidences" there are

You will not find a Freemason who will admit there is a patern and connections that are,after inspection, proven.
They will each and all, refuse to give credence to any information,no matter how many independent sources..
At one point in history 5 of the 9 Supreme Court Justices were Freemasons
all of the public "employment"
All of the Lords and Ladys

All of it is a "coincidence"
So
I see "How do I become a mason thread.
I think that is a good question

seven to two in 1946.


All their coincidences is just a coincidence. :D

[lightindarkness]

Which is funny, because conspiracy theorists ARE coincidence theorists. They believe that every coincidence they find must be proof of a conspiracy.

For example, did you know that for much of United States history 9 of 9 Supreme Court Justices, 100% of the House and Senate, and 100% of the Presidents thus far have been MALES? Surely this is proof of a massive world wide conspiracy of men!

That is a much larger coincidence than random numbers of masons who have been in power over time, CTers.

[thelucifer]

Which is funny, because conspiracy theorists ARE coincidence theorists. They believe that every coincidence they find must be proof of a conspiracy.

For example, did you know that for much of United States history 9 of 9 Supreme Court Justices, 100% of the House and Senate, and 100% of the Presidents thus far have been MALES? Surely this is proof of a massive world wide conspiracy of men!

That is a much larger coincidence than random numbers of masons who have been in power over time, CTers.


Its male chauvinism, which is exactly fitting with Freemasonry.

[keystone]

Its male chauvinism, which is exactly fitting with Freemasonry.How?

[lightindarkness]

Its male chauvinism, which is exactly fitting with Freemasonry.

Please explain how that has anything to do with freemasonry, and please explain how thats a conspiracy. I'd specifically like for you to point out the meetings of men where they plotted world domination together.

[thelucifer]

How?


Me and Mike went back and forth on this in an old thread.

I used words straight from masons who were honest about this issue, just as I did about the racism issue.
I suppose Im gonna have to pull up those quotes yet again. :rolleyes:

[lightindarkness]

Me and Mike went back and forth on this in an old thread.

I used words straight from masons who were honest about this issue, just as I did about the racism issue.
I suppose Im gonna have to pull up those quotes yet again. :rolleyes:

As that wouldn't prove anything - what would be the point? Or are you deflecting as per the usual?

Quotes from a few out of millions and millions of masons that you can find racists or chauvinists in a fraternity that large and old is not surprising. You could do that for any organization on earth that is even a little bit old or has more than a few members.

[keystone]

Me and Mike went back and forth on this in an old thread.

I used words straight from masons who were honest about this issue, just as I did about the racism issue.
I suppose Im gonna have to pull up those quotes yet again. :rolleyes:No you're not actually. I read them all. But your post above tries to suggest that there are no women in freemasonry which as the "old ground" shows is not true.

[thelucifer]

No you're not actually. I read them all. But your post above tries to suggest that there are no women in freemasonry which as the "old ground" shows is not true.

Of course you know that is only of very recent.

Lets not look at the decades and centuries, right ??


And if memory serves me, there are no female masons on my side of the pond to this day.

[keystone]

And if memory serves me, there are no female masons on my side of the pond to this day.OK well there are on this. Anyway it's about time more US jurisdictions recognised that there is no reason why a female can't be a freemason just as some of the southern jurisdictions are beginning (and not before time) to recognise that Prince Hall masons are acceptable too.

Edit. Found this (sorry used Google! :p) www.womenfreemasonsusa.com

[keystone]

Of course you know that is only of very recent.
Actually that's not so the Order Of Women Freemasons was established in the UK in 1908 and the HFAF in 1913. Technically that makes the OWF an antique this year! :D

Women didn't even have a vote in UK until the early part of the 20th Century. The suffragette movement was formed in 1907.

[banoyes]

Which is funny, because conspiracy theorists ARE coincidence theorists. They believe that every coincidence they find must be proof of a conspiracy.
I am stuck on "Every Coincidence"


For example, did you know that for much of United States history 9 of 9 Supreme Court Justices, 100% of the House and Senate, and 100% of the Presidents thus far have been MALES? Surely this is proof of a massive world wide conspiracy of men!
Yes actual fact there is "proof of a massive world wide conspiracy of men!"
Are not Freemasons men?
Have not the greatest villians in history been men
This is recognition time buddy,not your Freemason squiggling



That is a much larger coincidence than random numbers of masons who have been in power over time, CTers.
Again stuck on "random numbers" as if 5 out of 9 Supreme Court Justices being Freemasons is a random number
Prentending there is no patern ,no connections, just coincidence
He must think I'm a fool

[keystone]

But that doesn't make all men villains nor does it make all villains freemasons nor does it make all freemasons villains

[lightindarkness]

Of course you know that is only of very recent.

Lets not look at the decades and centuries, right ??


And if memory serves me, there are no female masons on my side of the pond to this day.

As there are women freemasons on BOTH sides of the pond and have been for about 100 years, your memory must be very hazy.

[banoyes]

As there are women freemasons on BOTH sides of the pond and have been for about 100 years, your memory must be very hazy.
Oh and which lodges were these women in a 100 years ago??
Who recognized them??
Cause my memory is WAY hazy

[lightindarkness]

Oh and which lodges were these women in a 100 years ago??
Who recognized them??
Cause my memory is WAY hazy

The Order of Womens Freemasonry, established in 1908, active in the United Kingdom and around the world:
http://www.owf.org.uk/

The International Order of Co-Freemasonry Le Droit Humain, established in 1893 France and active around the world (including the United States):
http://www.droit-humain.org/uk/ (UK HQ website)

Very hazy, indeed. There are of course tens of other women only freemasonry and co-masonry groups, those are just two among the bunch.

[thelucifer]

OK well there are on this. Anyway it's about time more US jurisdictions recognised that there is no reason why a female can't be a freemason just as some of the southern jurisdictions are beginning (and not before time) to recognise that Prince Hall masons are acceptable too.

Edit. Found this (sorry used Google! :p) www.womenfreemasonsusa.com

The link dosent work, so I did a google search and could not find one that did there either.

Apperently you didnt look past the link, oops :rolleyes:.

Here are some quotes that I did find, just for you.
If you need me to find more let me know. :p



http://www.masonic-lodge-of-education.com/women-freemasons.html


Le Droit Humain is an organization which admits women Freemasons to the craft, however they are viewed as clandestine within regular Freemasonry. 
The term "clandestine" in Freemasonry means not formally connected with "regular" Freemasonry. 
Females in Masonry include both mixed lodges of both men and women and all female lodges.
Co-Masonry lodges and their members take Freemasonry just as seriously as their all male counterparts.  Ascending the chairs is a much slower process than in American Freemasonry, as much study and a high degree of proficiency is required.
While "regular" Grand Lodges across the world do not formally recognize "mixed" Co-Masonry (male and female) nor Women's Masonry, in some countries there is a measure of respect bestowed upon some of these groups, many of which use the same working tools, lectures and ritual as regular Freemasonry.




http://www.owf.org.uk/history.htm

The present Grand Master, Most Worshipful Brother Brenda I. Fleming-Taylor, has been in office since 1989 and has been instrumental in bringing to the Order an openness and pride in our presence in the wider world.
The United Grand Lodge of England have, in a statement of 10th March 1999, acknowledged the regularity and sincerity of women’s Freemasonry although they do not officially recognise it and their members cannot take part. Many of our own Lodges meet in premises owned by the men’s Order and informal relations are cordial and co-operative.



http://www.masonicinfo.com/women.htm


the concept of women becoming Masons is, for all intents and purposes, an anathema. This is not because of some sexist feeling or because they feel women are incapable of understanding and appreciating the moral and spiritual lessons that Freemasonry can impart. It is because, simply, in their obligation they have sworn not to be present at the making of a woman a Mason. This is, as stated by their Grand Lodge, one of the 'Landmarks of Freemasonry' and is deemed unchangeable.

In fact, no "mainstream" Lodge/Grand Lodge of Masons accepts women as members or will recognize (acknowledge) any lodge which does. (See our page on recognition for more information on the thorny topic of recognition even within male Masonic bodies.)
That notwithstanding, there are those who quickly point out several other 'facts' (inconsistencies?) involved when addressing this issue:



The 'Landmarks' were actually an innovation in Masonry made in Anderson's Constitutions written some 20 years after the first Grand Lodge was formed and were perhaps more the 'invention' of one man (Rev. Dr. Anderson) rather than the actual traditions as he claimed. (Masons seeking more information about Landmarks may wish to consult Paul Bessel's outstanding online compilation at this web site.)

There is a (somewhat sketchy) historical basis to 'prove' that women were Freemasons in earliest days.

That the 'times have changed' and that keeping the sexes separate makes no sense in the current world.







Brother Brenda LOL

[thelucifer]

The Order of Womens Freemasonry, established in 1908, active in the United Kingdom and around the world:
http://www.owf.org.uk/

The International Order of Co-Freemasonry Le Droit Humain, established in 1893 France and active around the world (including the United States):
http://www.droit-humain.org/uk/ (UK HQ website)

Very hazy, indeed. There are of course tens of other women only freemasonry and co-masonry groups, those are just two among the bunch.

And you slam me about research. :rolleyes:

Note the post I just did for Keystone.

Nice try. :rolleyes:

[lightindarkness]

And you slam me about research. :rolleyes:

Note the post I just did for Keystone.

Nice try. :rolleyes:

It looks like you've been debunked yet again and are in denial about it.

Try to spread lies and you get debunked, sorry.

[thelucifer]

It looks like you've been debunked yet again and are in denial about it.

Try to spread lies and you get debunked, sorry.


:rolleyes:


Tell you what, go throw a bunch of rocks in the air and stand under them, knucklehead. :rolleyes:

[mike martin]

Of course you know that is only of very recent.

Lets not look at the decades and centuries, right ??
Granted except that 10 decades actually make a Century.


And if memory serves me, there are no female masons on my side of the pond to this day.
Your memory serves you poorly, just like keystone's googling:D. However as several members of the Masonic Forums are women from the US here are some proper links:

http://www.co-masonry.org/
http://www.comasonic.org/
http://comasonic.net/
http://www.georgewashingtonunion.org/

The first Co-Masonic or mixed Lodge in the USA was Alpha Lodge in Charleroi, Pennsylvania formed in 1903!

Mike

[banoyes]

David Icke calls them "Coincidence theorist's"

[url]http://www.edgemediatv.com/article001_icke.html ("http://www.edgemediatv.com/article001_icke.html" [/URL)

You can look through this site and see how many
"coincidences" there are

You will not find a Freemason who will admit there is a patern and connections that are,after inspection, proven.
They will each and all, refuse to give credence to any information,no matter how many independent sources..
At one point in history 5 of the 9 Supreme Court Justices were Freemasons
all of the public "employment"
All of the Lords and Ladys

All of it is a "coincidence"
So
I see "How do I become a mason thread.
I think that is a good question

Oh I get it
"Co-masonry"
Like "Coincidence"

[lightindarkness]

:rolleyes:


Tell you what, go throw a bunch of rocks in the air and stand under them, knucklehead. :rolleyes:

How does it feel to be so wrong so often? And wrong about things that, if you had done 1 minute of research, you could have found out you were wrong about.

But I suppose all those female freemasons are just "coincidences" or are not real - just figments of my imagination -, right? :rolleyes:

[banoyes]

How does it feel to be so wrong so often? And wrong about things that, if you had done 1 minute of research, you could have found out you were wrong about.

But I suppose all those female freemasons are just "coincidences" or are not real - just figments of my imagination -, right? :rolleyes:
Co-masons
NOT Freemasons
Recognized by other Co masons
Not Freemasonry who recognizes them as Co-freemasons (at best)
These guys just pretend away
"Oh sure women have been Freemasons for a hundred years"
geezzee they 'll say anything

[lightindarkness]

Co-masons
NOT Freemasons
Recognized by other Co masons
Not Freemasonry who recognizes them as Co-freemasons (at best)
These guys just pretend away
"Oh sure women have been Freemasons for a hundred years"
geezzee they 'll say anything

BZZT. WRONG!

Anyone can call themselves Freemasons, and it is traditionally a FRATERNITY. The FRATERNITY lets anyone call themselves freemasons and has no problem with it. Truth: There are women freemasons. The end.

Are sororities evil because they don't let men in? Is womens freemasonry wrong because it doesn't let men in? I love the double standards by you guys, its so obvious you are desperately and breathlessly trying to look into every corner to find something...anything...to find fault with :)

[keystone]

For crying out loud. Why DO you people have to make these threads a permanent pissing contest?

[stewart edwards]

For crying out loud. Why DO you people have to make these threads a permanent pissing contest?:DKeystone, the answer to that I suspect is to be found in Masonic ritual. Though I recognise that some rituals cover far more ground than others.

"Pissing contests" to use your words are a classic case of negative energy flows.

Also rubic 125?(memory!!!) of the Ancient Egyptian book of the Dead, Papryrus of Ani, has a sentance in it which sort of complements this in a way.
(How many people do you think are now searching the book of the dead;)).

[keystone]

How many people do you think are now searching the book of the dead;)).Not many. Too busy thinking up the next short, pithy, agressive response to the previous short, pithy, agressive response. I wonder if they are preprogrammed. :D

[measle_weasel]

Why does anyone argue with the masons who browse this site anyway? They are in a secret society, whose purpose is to keep knowledge secret to those who are not in the society. Its logical to assume that no real mason would ever speek anything but disinformation and atempt to distract any non-mason from knowing anything that freemasonery is doing, has done, is planning to do, is about, etc.

The simple fact they are masons discredits and calls into question all the information they give out to non-masons, no matter how mundane the topic may seem.

[keystone]

Why does anyone argue with the masons who browse this site anyway? They are in a secret society, whose purpose is to keep knowledge secret to those who are not in the society. Its logical to assume that no real mason would ever speek anything but disinformation and atempt to distract any non-mason from knowing anything that freemasonery is doing, has done, is planning to do, is about, etc.

The simple fact they are masons discredits and calls into question all the information they give out to non-masons, no matter how mundane the topic may seem.Mmm interesting. Now on the Freemasons and 666 thread earlier today you wrote, seemingly in defence of a masons right to post and against an attack made on him:

A forum without a differing point of view is... worthless. You mind as well be talking to yourself, if everyone in the forum believed exactly what you believe.

So many people on this forum dont seem to understand that.... Argument and debate is good, it gets your mind shaken out of the rigid cell most people keep their brains in.

And being open minded is not believing what David Icke thinks. Being open minded is accepting the possibility that he might be right, and that anyone else who posts on this forum, or speaks to you ever, might be right. Considering all possibilities and welcoming differing points of view is being open minded.

:confused: I am.

[banoyes]

Why does anyone argue with the masons who browse this site anyway? They are in a secret society, whose purpose is to keep knowledge secret to those who are not in the society. Its logical to assume that no real mason would ever speek anything but disinformation and atempt to distract any non-mason from knowing anything that freemasonery is doing, has done, is planning to do, is about, etc.

The simple fact they are masons discredits and calls into question all the information they give out to non-masons, no matter how mundane the topic may seem.
The thread is secret societies
so they gather up the wiles of the brotherhood
they are not stupid
Posting information about the Freemason cult is needed
When the mason swarm hits,then the flow of information is disrupted
I mean How many times can you say
It's all not true and then do the utmost to side track
kinda like this one turned into women freemason
Well
it's all a coincidence anyway, have a beer

[ban freekmasons]

The thread is secret societies
so they gather up the wiles of the brotherhood
they are not stupid
Posting information about the Freemason cult is needed
When the mason swarm hits,then the flow of information is disrupted
I mean How many times can you say
It's all not true and then do the utmost to side track
kinda like this one turned into women freemason
Well
it's all a coincidence anyway, have a beer

Thanks for the beer Banoyes and thanks for the post Measle_Weasle. It's not coincidence at all, its the Great Awakening and the truth will out. I/we at ACP look forward to the good guys having a beer or more after the pirate ship sinks. Tick tock tick

[measle_weasel]

Mmm interesting. Now on the Freemasons and 666 thread earlier today you wrote, seemingly in defence of a masons right to post and against an attack made on him:

:confused: I am.

My other post was in defense of differing points of view being a good thing. Which it was. And its good to have a masons prespective, and its their right to post whatever the heck they want, just like everyone else.

That second quote is not in contradiction to the first. Though they have the right to post whatever they want, but that does not mean that non-masons have to argue with what is essentially a broken record with different names. Their right to post and express a different point of view is not in question. What is in question, is why anyone bothers trying to extract information (essentially just argue back and forth) out of a group of people who are going to stick to their story, no matter what.

I want their opinions and perspectives to remain here. They are good to have, for reasons I explained in quote #2. Its also good to have the bible nuts, who think God's wrath will soon be upon us through nuclear war. But why argue with either? Its like arguing with a wall that has an idea written on it. No matter how much you argue, or present support for your argument, the wall isnt going change whats written on it.

Take their story for what it is, and consider it... but why try to change it?

[lightindarkness]

I want their opinions and perspectives to remain here. They are good to have, for reasons I explained in quote #2. Its also good to have the bible nuts, who think God's wrath will soon be upon us through nuclear war. But why argue with either? Its like arguing with a wall that has an idea written on it. No matter how much you argue, or present support for your argument, the wall isnt going change whats written on it.

Take their story for what it is, and consider it... but why try to change it?

If you believe everyone who does not agree with you is simply too dumb/stupid to "see the light" then you are actually acting like a wall that has an idea written on it. No matter how much evidence is presented against your claims, you simply dismiss them.

[measle_weasel]

If you believe everyone who does not agree with you is simply too dumb/stupid to "see the light" then you are actually acting like a wall that has an idea written on it. No matter how much evidence is presented against your claims, you simply dismiss them.

What makes you believe I believe that? What evidence has been brought up against my claims? What have I refused to dismiss?

The only thing Ive really stated is that the mason story is going to be the same, from every mason, as it logically would be from any group of people in a secret society, and arguing with them is pointless, as their views are highly unlikely to change. You are either not understanding the point I made, delibrately dodging discussion of that point, or trying to draw me into saying something that would validate your above, inane claim.

[lightindarkness]

What makes you believe I believe that? What evidence has been brought up against my claims? What have I refused to dismiss?

The only thing Ive really stated is that the mason story is going to be the same, from every mason, as it logically would be from any group of people in a secret society, and arguing with them is pointless, as their views are highly unlikely to change. You are either not understanding the point I made, delibrately dodging discussion of that point, or trying to draw me into saying something that would validate your above, inane claim.

Here is your logic, based directly off what you have written:

Anyone who does not agree with you cannot be argued with since clearly their views are unlikely to change.

But actually its you - you believe everyone else around you just isn't willing to listen, but YOUR views are the ones that won't change. You won't change your views but simply preach to others, and anyone who does not convert is dismissed as "clearly not capable of changing their views." You are attempting to present the illusion of you somehow being so open minded and open to reason and everyone who doesn't agree with you as being somehow close minded and incapable of reason, when in reality the exact opposite is true.

Look into the mirror. Pot, meet kettle.

There is no valid reason not to debate with masons, as its NOT a secret society and there is no reason to believe my or any other masons views will not change.

[keystone]

What is in question, is why anyone bothers trying to extract information (essentially just argue back and forth) out of a group of people who are going to stick to their story, no matter what.

I want their opinions and perspectives to remain here. They are good to have, for reasons I explained in quote #2. Its also good to have the bible nuts, who think God's wrath will soon be upon us through nuclear war.

But why argue with either? Its like arguing with a wall that has an idea written on it. No matter how much you argue, or present support for your argument, the wall isnt going change whats written on it.

Take their story for what it is, and consider it... but why try to change it?Thank you for that. It does, of course, work both ways.

[measle_weasel]

Thank you for that. It does, of course, work both ways.

Indeed. Ill never claim to be perfectly open minded and objective, or that I never hang on to ideas Im familiar with. I can only try my best to let go of old ideas when I believe a new one to be more likely based on supporting information.

I look at it all like this... I will defend the scenario which I believe to be the most likely based on the knowledge I have. But ultimately, I hope to lose the argument, as if I lose based on evidence and likelyhood, I learn in being wrong, and can modify my thought process from there. I gain another piece of the puzzle. Being right and winning arguments does not teach you anything. In essence, you are winning the battle, but losing the war.

[keystone]

Indeed. Ill never claim to be perfectly open minded and objective, or that I never hang on to ideas Im familiar with. I can only try my best to let go of old ideas when I believe a new one to be more likely based on supporting information.

I look at it all like this... I will defend the scenario which I believe to be the most likely based on the knowledge I have. But ultimately, I hope to lose the argument, as if I lose based on evidence and likelyhood, I learn in being wrong, and can modify my thought process from there. I gain another piece of the puzzle. Being right and winning arguments does not teach you anything. In essence, you are winning the battle, but losing the war.A very interesting perspective and one which resonates with me. Perhaps others will learn from it also.

[banoyes]

My other post was in defense of differing points of view being a good thing.

I want their opinions and perspectives to remain here. They are good to have, for reasons I explained in quote #2. Its also good to have the bible nuts, who think God's wrath will soon be upon us through nuclear war. But why argue with either? Its like arguing with a wall that has an idea written on it. No matter how much you argue, or present support for your argument, the wall isnt going change whats written on it.

Take their story for what it is, and consider it... but why try to change it?

Change the story??
Well the basic idea is to present information
of course
the Fremmasons find this objectionable
and deny any validity to all information they object to
This presents a problem in the flow
Really, How many "no it isn't" "not true" yadi,yadi
can one listen to.
Change... yah ... full disclosure and forfitures

[keystone]

Well the basic idea is to present information
of courseAgreed

the Fremmasons find this objectionableAs do you to information presented by masons.

and deny any validity to all information they object toas do you.

This presents a problem in the flowAgreed 100%

Really, How many "freemaons are liars", "deny, deny, deny" yadi,yadi
can one listen to.Quite

[banoyes]

Read message #43
It couldn't have been made any clearer then by the above post by keystone

[keystone]

Read message #43
It couldn't have been made any clearer then by the above post by keystone

Read post #44 and tell me why it is not possible to concede that there might just be TWO sides to any discussion rather than relying totally on the force of incantation to make yours the only correct one.

[elirien]

Read post #44 and tell me why it is not possible to concede that there might just be TWO sides to any discussion rather than relying totally on the force of incantation to make yours the only correct one.

Because there is only one reality. I don't claim that I know it or anything but I had to kinda but in here :D

[keystone]

Because there is only one reality. I don't claim that I know it or anything but I had to kinda but in here :DThats OK but it does depend very much on the lens through which you are viewing it surely.

The trouble is that Ben just does what he accuses others of doing and then gets all uppity when you point that out. :D

[elirien]

Thats OK but it does depend very much on the lens through which you are viewing it surely.

The trouble is that Ben just does what he accuses others of doing and then gets all uppity when you point that out. :D

No. It differs not with the lens keystone. It looks different when you look through a lens :D I'm just saying that truth in this matter is very much in the individual. Generalizations of virtual concepts (like masonry or anti-masonry) or un-appointed lawyerism (speaking in the name of massess or other people or God) don't work with this matter.

If we are interested we have to look down to the individuals.

[keystone]

No. It differs not with the lens keystone. It looks different when you look through a lens :DYes of course.

I'm just saying that truth in this matter is very much in the individual. Generalizations of virtual concepts (like masonry or anti-masonry) or un-appointed lawyerism (speaking in the name of massess or other people or God) don't work with this matter. If we are interested we have to look down to the individuals.I agree 100%. Which is why I'm really rather bemused by the way the cavalry have laid into me for no real reason on another thread - particularly when it is as clear as day that the "shoot first and ask questions afterwards" mindset has been at play. But, hey ho, I've got broad shoulders

[elirien]

Yes of course.

I agree 100%. Which is why I'm really rather bemused by the way the cavalry have laid into me for no real reason on another thread - particularly when it is as clear as day that the "shoot first and ask questions afterwards" mindset has been at play. But, hey ho, I've got broad shoulders

It is mostly the "that damn foreigner" mindset at play there. No one gets pissy as long as he is productive. But when he stays away from "the locals" he will be demonized either as "a loner" or "that damn foreigner" again.

I see this pattern in almost any aspect of life. It is what is wrong with societies (all together). about to rant :D stopping.

[keystone]

Indeed and we see it time and time again here when "that damned mason" mindset kicks in without actually reading what the fellow has written.

[elirien]

Indeed and we see it time and time again here when "that damned mason" mindset kicks in without actually reading what the fellow has written.

Yes. That is evident within us all (masons too btw).

Although returning to the subject and I am asking this question out of curiosity and your greater experience with "masons" then mine: "aren't there masons within or without your lodge that besides all that literature that masonic sources lend them still see some of aspects of life as a coincidence?"

I'm just asking about your individual experiences about for example when you talk to people about let's say 9/11, 7/7 or even something completely trivial like "dude, I think I need a new job". What did you observe on this subject?

[lightindarkness]

Yes. That is evident within us all (masons too btw).

Although returning to the subject and I am asking this question out of curiosity and your greater experience with "masons" then mine: "aren't there masons within or without your lodge that besides all that literature that masonic sources lend them still see some of aspects of life as a coincidence?"


Yes, I would be one of them. I think all the literature and research suggests that most things simply are coincidences. Math doesn't lie, and any student of even the most basic statistics class knows that it takes a extraordinarily high volume of coincidences to make a instance take on significance.

I am of the rational choice school of thought, which holds that people are for the most part rational and pursue their own self-interests. What happens when 6 billion people pursue their own self-interest? Chaos - which resembles quite well the world we have today.

When people seek to find malicious intent or devious plotting behind everything around them, they become blinded to what they know is true from their everyday life. Just as you I don't go around throwing up random signs and implanting mystic symbols in everything we touch, neither is everyone else.

[marpat]

David Icke calls them "Coincidence theorist's"

[url]http://www.edgemediatv.com/article001_icke.html ("http://www.edgemediatv.com/article001_icke.html" [/URL)

You can look through this site and see how many
"coincidences" there are

You will not find a Freemason who will admit there is a patern and connections that are,after inspection, proven.
They will each and all, refuse to give credence to any information,no matter how many independent sources..
At one point in history 5 of the 9 Supreme Court Justices were Freemasons
all of the public "employment"
All of the Lords and Ladys

All of it is a "coincidence"
So
I see "How do I become a mason thread.
I think that is a good question


Is it a co-incidence that Icke shares the name with an America general, possible illuminati stooge, 'Ike' Eisenhower? maybe its illuminati code for 'I am one of you'. You have to look at the facts here, do you believe it is a 'coincidence' or is it deliberate?

[stewart edwards]

I am of the rational choice school of thought, which holds that people are for the most part rational and pursue their own self-interests. What happens when 6 billion people pursue their own self-interest? Chaos - which resembles quite well the world we have today.I am not so sure that this is true you know. Consider:-

1. The United Kingdom. I am the first to put there hand up and say that ethical standards in leadership need to be improved, and that there needs to be a big closing of some say-do gaps. But for all of my knocking of the English establishment (hey I am Scots so it is to be expected;)) it has been very successful in offering a country that is relatively stable, where health care is available, as is education, the streets are relatively safe, etc. yes there are many problems and issues that could be so easily resolved if the Establishement had a bit more inner courage, but given how difficult it must be to make a difference given how interdependent our world is now, I have a lot of respect for them. Britain may have its chaotic points but it does work. Just a bit inefficiently as if it needs some new oil.

2. Europe. The European Union has been very successful in bringing Europe closer together. yes it has many flaws and inefficiencies, but Germany is unlikely to decare was on Poland, France, England again.

There are many other examples, from individual nations, to the United Nations.

Yes there is chaos in our world, and yes this is largely caused by people in power following self interest. I agree with you here. But this is only evidience of how the institutions in society that teach morals, like religions and Freemasonry have failed to keep up with the evolution of the human race. Once religions and esoteric societies decide that they want to lead and inspire as opposed to bring up the rear, the situation will resolve itself, for more guidance will be given more effectively and more leaders will move past self interest.

The human race has been evolving faster than the institutions can handle, and this is even more evident in the youth of today. It was recently, well a couple of years ago now, summed up by a ninety something year old that I know when he admitted to me "we (his generation) got it wrong".

And my son has been taught at school that his generation have to sort out the mess made by my generation. So there must be recognition by some powers that be that change needs to happen.

The light is returning to this planet. But are the institutions of light ready for it and capable of receiving it?

[banoyes]

I am not so sure that this is true you know. Consider:-

1. The United Kingdom. I am the first to put there hand up and say that ethical standards in leadership need to be improved, and that there needs to be a big closing of some say-do gaps. But for all of my knocking of the English establishment (hey I am Scots so it is to be expected;)) it has been very successful in offering a country that is relatively stable, where health care is available, as is education, the streets are relatively safe, etc. yes there are many problems and issues that could be so easily resolved if the Establishement had a bit more inner courage, but given how difficult it must be to make a difference given how interdependent our world is now, I have a lot of respect for them. Britain may have its chaotic points but it does work. Just a bit inefficiently as if it needs some new oil.

2. Europe. The European Union has been very successful in bringing Europe closer together. yes it has many flaws and inefficiencies, but Germany is unlikely to decare was on Poland, France, England again.

There are many other examples, from individual nations, to the United Nations.

Yes there is chaos in our world, and yes this is largely caused by people in power following self interest. I agree with you here. But this is only evidience of how the institutions in society that teach morals, like religions and Freemasonry have failed to keep up with the evolution of the human race. Once religions and esoteric societies decide that they want to lead and inspire as opposed to bring up the rear, the situation will resolve itself, for more guidance will be given more effectively and more leaders will move past self interest.

The human race has been evolving faster than the institutions can handle, and this is even more evident in the youth of today. It was recently, well a couple of years ago now, summed up by a ninety something year old that I know when he admitted to me "we (his generation) got it wrong".

And my son has been taught at school that his generation have to sort out the mess made by my generation. So there must be recognition by some powers that be that change needs to happen.

The light is returning to this planet. But are the institutions of light ready for it and capable of receiving it?
WTF is this????
Just more mason de-railing
What's up next??
The proper way to clean your apron.???
Oh
BTW Stewie thinks the PTB are doing OK, all things considered
globalization is working and it's for the best
and
there are "institutions of light" , hhmm must telly one someday

[stewart edwards]

WTF is this????A response to and thoughts on a previous posters post. I thoughthat this was a discussion board?

BTW Stewie thinks the PTB are doing OK, all things considered
PTB? What is that?

[lightindarkness]

I am not so sure that this is true you know. Consider:-

The rational choice school has a lot of evidence behind it. So much in fact that if you could disprove it you could probably win a Nobel. Its not a perfect way to describe human behavior - but its close.


1. The United Kingdom. I am the first to put there hand up and say that ethical standards in leadership need to be improved, and that there needs to be a big closing of some say-do gaps. But for all of my knocking of the English establishment (hey I am Scots so it is to be expected;)) it has been very successful in offering a country that is relatively stable, where health care is available, as is education, the streets are relatively safe, etc. yes there are many problems and issues that could be so easily resolved if the Establishement had a bit more inner courage, but given how difficult it must be to make a difference given how interdependent our world is now, I have a lot of respect for them. Britain may have its chaotic points but it does work. Just a bit inefficiently as if it needs some new oil.

This doesn't disprove rational choice. It is in the best interest of the leadership of any country to create short-term systems to satisfy the population. For example, the UK's health care system has quite a bit of criticism and has people fleeing the country to get health care in other countries instead of waiting years for simple surgeries.


2. Europe. The European Union has been very successful in bringing Europe closer together. yes it has many flaws and inefficiencies, but Germany is unlikely to decare was on Poland, France, England again.

Again, does not disprove anything. The European Union's impact on trade and third world economies has been devastating. The EU is also another case of leaders acting in their own best interests - the EU is not as a structure powerful enough to usurp the power of any one country, but the collective bargaining it can do effectively causes a net power increase for individual leaders.


Yes there is chaos in our world, and yes this is largely caused by people in power following self interest. I agree with you here. But this is only evidience of how the institutions in society that teach morals, like religions and Freemasonry have failed to keep up with the evolution of the human race. Once religions and esoteric societies decide that they want to lead and inspire as opposed to bring up the rear, the situation will resolve itself, for more guidance will be given more effectively and more leaders will move past self interest.

Not at all. It has never been the role of religion...or freemasonry...or anything else to stop people from pursuing their own self interests. Pursuit of self interest is not wrong, its perfectly OK, its part of the human DNA and nothing will change it. Collective pursuit of self interest creates good things. Compared with other systems, it creates the best world possible under the circumstances.

[elirien]

Yes, I would be one of them. I think all the literature and research suggests that most things simply are coincidences. Math doesn't lie, and any student of even the most basic statistics class knows that it takes a extraordinarily high volume of coincidences to make a instance take on significance.

But this is a contradiction. Math is not based on coincidence. It is based on "reality". what do you understand from the word coincidence?



I am of the rational choice school of thought, which holds that people are for the most part rational and pursue their own self-interests. What happens when 6 billion people pursue their own self-interest? Chaos - which resembles quite well the world we have today.

Again, what has rational choice to do with coincidence and self interest? If every one would be moving for their self interest do you believe that Aspartame would have one chance in hell to survive on the market (there are many more examples like would anyone wage war if they only thought about their self interest)?


When people seek to find malicious intent or devious plotting behind everything around them, they become blinded to what they know is true from their everyday life. Just as you I don't go around throwing up random signs and implanting mystic symbols in everything we touch, neither is everyone else.

Very true. Although searching for intent is different from searching for malicious intent.

Coincidence is not searching for both. Isn't the sentence "ah that's a coincidence" the same as " move along. nothing to see here"?

thank you for your answers lightindarkness ;)

[lightindarkness]

But this is a contradiction. Math is not based on coincidence. It is based on "reality". what do you understand from the word coincidence?

How is this a contradiction? I am using correlations and coincidence as a synonym - I assume this is the way you are using them. Math is based on knowing when something stands out from the crowd - when a series of number follows a pattern not because of random chance, but because of some statistically significant force occurring to them.


Again, what has rational choice to do with coincidence and self interest? If every one would be moving for their self interest do you believe that Aspartame would have one chance in hell to survive on the market (there are many more examples like would anyone wage war if they only thought about their self interest)?

Correlated events that occur almost always have no meaning because actors in the game are all pursuing their own self interest and it is not in their best interest to collude. As everyone is looking out for themselves, it does not benefit anyone to go around planting signs and symbols to amuse themselves.

[banoyes]

Originally Posted by lightindarkness
Yes, I would be one of them. I think all the literature and research suggests that most things simply are coincidences. Math doesn't lie, and any student of even the most basic statistics class knows that it takes a extraordinarily high volume of coincidences to make a instance take on significance.

Exactly opposite of the truth (Freemason logic)
Try the Laws of Probability
The fact is there are very few "coincidences"
These Freemasons will say anything to defend the cult
Truth is not a consideration

[stewart edwards]

banoyes

My Maths is a little rusty but probability theory supports LiDs case. Some of the maths that has been published in recent years to do with NORA (Non obvious relationship analysis) may support your case but I cant see how probability theory does. Mind you it has been a long while since I took my maths exams.

Can you explain it to me please? And also answer my last question to you as I am curious what those initials stand for.

I am listening to you banoyes but you are not making much sense to me at the moment. Please help me understand your perspective.

[banoyes]

banoyes

My Maths is a little rusty but probability theory supports LiDs case. Some of the maths that has been published in recent years to do with NORA (Non obvious relationship analysis) may support your case but I cant see how probability theory does. Mind you it has been a long while since I took my maths exams.

Can you explain it to me please? And also answer my last question to you as I am curious what those initials stand for.

I am listening to you banoyes but you are not making much sense to me at the moment. Please help me understand your perspective.
PTB Power That Be
My perspective?
I do not believe in "coincidences", I have never experienced one,
line up the hundreds of "coincidences" attached to Freemasonry
You don't need a math degree to see, that is not possible
Common sense works just fine.
Probabilty works fine also
How probable is it that all these "coincidences" are a "coincidence"
zero...that's the probability
I make sense to non masons, that's why you pretend to not understand
masons have their mind set which is hard to break
They believe is Globalization and the One World Government
I have never heard of a mason against it.
It fits their personal obsessions to join and belong
They have an obligation to lie and to protect their "brothers"
and
if there is so little to hide, why is so much effort devoted to hiding it..
Masons think it has something to do with some knowledge they possess
( it may )
BUT
It is a psyops program, a way to mold the mind
"We hold secrecy in high regard"
Something us cowan find odious

[marpat]

Anybody want to comment of the 'coincidence' that I mention in post #55?

As the illuminati are so hung up on names then surely this must mean something.

[thelucifer]

PTB Power That Be
My perspective?
I do not believe in "coincidences", I have never experienced one,
line up the hundreds of "coincidences" attached to Freemasonry
You don't need a math degree to see, that is not possible
Common sense works just fine.
Probabilty works fine also
How probable is it that all these "coincidences" are a "coincidence"
zero...that's the probability
I make sense to non masons, that's why you pretend to not understand
masons have their mind set which is hard to break
They believe is Globalization and the One World Government
I have never heard of a mason against it.
It fits their personal obsessions to join and belong
They have an obligation to lie and to protect their "brothers"
and
if there is so little to hide, why is so much effort devoted to hiding it..
Masons think it has something to do with some knowledge they possess
( it may )
BUT
It is a psyops program, a way to mold the mind
"We hold secrecy in high regard"
Something us cowan find odious


One way I see Freemasonry is a "farming outfit", looking for the rarest and most devout individuals to take in (to the top/cap/apex) so as to carry out an agenda and using the rest as copper tops, using their faces to put a good face on a dark agenda.
Dark =
1. secretive
2. bad

[stewart edwards]

Banoyes

Thank you, your help here is appreciated.

Remember though that I was rejected by an UGLE Lodge. You may have noticed that while I support Freemasonry I am not a yes man, not by a long shot.


theLucifer

I know a lot of Freemasons nowadays and I think that it would be fair comment to say that many just see it as a social club.

[slartibartfast]

PTB Power That Be
My perspective?
I do not believe in "coincidences", I have never experienced one,
line up the hundreds of "coincidences" attached to Freemasonry
You don't need a math degree to see, that is not possible
Common sense works just fine.
Probabilty works fine also
How probable is it that all these "coincidences" are a "coincidence"
zero...that's the probability


If you have never experienced a coincidence then you are a statistical anomaly.

I don't actually believe you have shown as "hundreds of coincidences", sure some fairly dodgy assumptions and logic based on population groups e.g. all senior politicians are well educated, all senior politician are economical with the truth, therefore all well educated people are economical with the truth.

Please repeat your coincidences and we can look at the stats.

[marpat]

I guess banoyes and other people who dont believe in coincidence dont wish to respond to the coincidence that I put before them.

Icke shares his name with 'Ike' Eisenhower, who if the theories are true must be one of the bad guys.

Also in gemetria Icke can be condensed to Ike, numerical value of 10+20+1=31. This is also the value of El, the deity Icke so often condemns as a brotherhood baddy, yet his name contains the same numerical value. Coincidence? we know how much the iluminati use numbers to hide their information.

[banoyes]

I guess banoyes and other people who dont believe in coincidence dont wish to respond to the coincidence that I put before them.

Icke shares his name with 'Ike' Eisenhower, who if the theories are true must be one of the bad guys.

Also in gemetria Icke can be condensed to Ike, numerical value of 10+20+1=31. This is also the value of El, the deity Icke so often condemns as a brotherhood baddy, yet his name contains the same numerical value. Coincidence? we know how much the iluminati use numbers to hide their information.
How does one say, childish, in English?

[marpat]

How does one say, childish, in English?

So when I point out some coincidences about Icke it is childish but if the same was done against masons it would be proof. I think your response says it all.

To say that nothing is a coincidence means that Icke has negative links but to say that coincidence exists fucks up your theory.

[thelucifer]

I guess banoyes and other people who dont believe in coincidence dont wish to respond to the coincidence that I put before them.

Icke shares his name with 'Ike' Eisenhower, who if the theories are true must be one of the bad guys.

Also in gemetria Icke can be condensed to Ike, numerical value of 10+20+1=31. This is also the value of El, the deity Icke so often condemns as a brotherhood baddy, yet his name contains the same numerical value. Coincidence? we know how much the iluminati use numbers to hide their information.


Dude :confused:

I have seen you do some silly and even dumb posts but this one might take the cake, right off the deep end.

You take a statement (about not believing in coincidences) to a most absurd end, and then present it as some kind of clever point against Banoyes ! :rolleyes:


And this numerical nonsense !! :confused: :rolleyes:


And your not a masonic sympathizer !!
Bans point was in regards to Freemasons/Freemasonry, and you going to laughable lengths to shoot him and his point down is most clear.
Dude :rolleyes:


I see this as something worse than childish.

[elirien]

How is this a contradiction? I am using correlations and coincidence as a synonym - I assume this is the way you are using them. Math is based on knowing when something stands out from the crowd - when a series of number follows a pattern not because of random chance, but because of some statistically significant force occurring to them.

In math there is intent. No coincidence but pure matrix baby :D I didn't study fuzzy logic or other abstract theoretical maths but as long as my engineering life goes maths is definitely not coincidental. At least that's what the train tracks tell. Maths can't be coincidental. If they are you get an F dude :D



Correlated events that occur almost always have no meaning because actors in the game are all pursuing their own self interest and it is not in their best interest to collude. As everyone is looking out for themselves, it does not benefit anyone to go around planting signs and symbols to amuse themselves.

What has that to do with my question? There are actors, there is intent so there is no coincidence. Again. If you are ignorant to the motives then it may appear to you as miracle, triviality, coincidence etc. but those who know do know that it isn't coincidence.

[elirien]

Is it a co-incidence that Icke shares the name with an America general, possible illuminati stooge, 'Ike' Eisenhower? maybe its illuminati code for 'I am one of you'. You have to look at the facts here, do you believe it is a 'coincidence' or is it deliberate?

Could very well be, but do you think that they know who incarnates why? I mean are they training virtual soldiers like that (a.k.a. sleeper agents). I mean he was pretty much involved with mind control victims. how can we now that he wasn't affected as they were.

This is pure paranoia imho but are very decent points to speculate upon. also his face looks pretty much of those that are children of the bloodlines. although without any kind of proof that would fell as you have pointed out in the "those damn bloodlines" category imho. :D

[marpat]

Dude :confused:

I have seen you do some silly and even dumb posts but this one might take the cake, right off the deep end.

You take a statement (about not believing in coincidences) to a most absurd end, and then present it as some kind of clever point against Banoyes ! :rolleyes:


And this numerical nonsense !! :confused: :rolleyes:


And your not a masonic sympathizer !!
Bans point was in regards to Freemasons/Freemasonry, and you going to laughable lengths to shoot him and his point down is most clear.
Dude :rolleyes:


I see this as something worse than childish.


Making a point about coincidence is childish? are some of the accusations thrown at the masons not very childish? I think it just pisses you off because it throws things back into the face of the accusers.

How is the numerical stuff nonsense? it is actually standard, simple gematria. If the illuminati hide their ideas in numerical code then is this not valid? if mason had the same numeric value as death then I'm sure that you would be onto it, quoting it as proof that they are bad.

[elirien]

Dude :confused:

I have seen you do some silly and even dumb posts but this one might take the cake, right off the deep end.

You take a statement (about not believing in coincidences) to a most absurd end, and then present it as some kind of clever point against Banoyes ! :rolleyes:


And this numerical nonsense !! :confused: :rolleyes:


And your not a masonic sympathizer !!
Bans point was in regards to Freemasons/Freemasonry, and you going to laughable lengths to shoot him and his point down is most clear.
Dude :rolleyes:


I see this as something worse than childish.

well its easy to point the finger at some one far away. why don't we start first with the people close to us. there is a turkish saying that goes: "first stick yourself with the needle before you stick a greater needle to someone else (approx. translation)".

[marpat]

Could very well be, but do you think that they know who incarnates why? I mean are they training virtual soldiers like that (a.k.a. sleeper agents). I mean he was pretty much involved with mind control victims. how can we now that he wasn't affected as they were.

This is pure paranoia imho but are very decent points to speculate upon. also his face looks pretty much of those that are children of the bloodlines. although without any kind of proof that would fell as you have pointed out in the "those damn bloodlines" category imho. :D

Maybe it would be paranoid if I was actually serious about it but I bring the point up just to highlight that co-incidence does exist. Many people think that it doesn't.

It also shows how easy it is to tie people into things that they are very probably not linked to.

[elirien]

Maybe it would be paranoid if I was actually serious about it but I bring the point up just to highlight that co-incidence does exist. Many people think that it doesn't.

It also shows how easy it is to tie people into things that they are very probably not linked to.

could be just a joke to you but I think this is quite healthy speculation. If you act on it that would be kinda weird though. I don't mean research but change of your behaviorism towards him would be very weird which is hard to restrain but is quite a will trial if you think about it :)

Maybe it's just me. I don't know :)

[thelucifer]

Maybe it would be paranoid if I was actually serious about it but I bring the point up just to highlight that co-incidence does exist. Many people think that it doesn't.

It also shows how easy it is to tie people into things that they are very probably not linked to.

Does coincidence exist in GOD ?
Where does coincidence exist in the all knowing ?

What is coincidence ?

I dont believe in coincidences either.
I simply know I dont know it all thus need to weigh evidences (for you coincidences).


You resort to absurd coincidences/links as though to discredit reasonable links/evidences by the anti's.
Are some points by anti's unreasonable ? Yes, so what !

Thats like going after the week, if you want to impress, go after the strong/reasonable.

[lightindarkness]

In math there is intent. No coincidence but pure matrix baby :D I didn't study fuzzy logic or other abstract theoretical maths but as long as my engineering life goes maths is definitely not coincidental. At least that's what the train tracks tell. Maths can't be coincidental. If they are you get an F dude :D

You must have failed statistics, logic, and political science n a spectacular way my friend. There is a extraordinarily large branch of statistics that is devoted to figuring out when coincidences/correlations occur often enough to be significant and not due to random chance. Ever heard of regression? Bivariate correlation matrix? Statistical significance?


What has that to do with my question? There are actors, there is intent so there is no coincidence. Again. If you are ignorant to the motives then it may appear to you as miracle, triviality, coincidence etc. but those who know do know that it isn't coincidence.

I am not sure what else I can do for you - paint a picture maybe? If you cant accept something right in front of you, then I can offer no help.

I advise you go study game theory a bit. It is practically impossible for these massive conspiracy theories to be true as long as people are acting rational and pursuing their own self-interests. Not all actors are rational and some do not follow their own self-interest, but a vast majority do.

[stewart edwards]

I advise you go study game theory a bit. It is practically impossible for these massive conspiracy theories to be true as long as people are acting rational and pursuing their own self-interests. Not all actors are rational and some do not follow their own self-interest, but a vast majority do.I have studied game theory though not for a couple of decades now, so I am a bit rusty.

The intereting thing about planet Earth today is that it is actually in everyones self interest to work together. The science journals are full of reasons why. And even the corporations have cottoned onto it, though I suspect that money still drives their motivations for the moment.

[lightindarkness]

I have studied game theory though not for a couple of decades now, so I am a bit rusty.

The intereting thing about planet Earth today is that it is actually in everyones self interest to work together. The science journals are full of reasons why. And even the corporations have cottoned onto it, though I suspect that money still drives their motivations for the moment.

Depends on the circumstance, its not true at all that its always in everyone's best interest to work together. Competition creates innovation.

[banoyes]

You must have failed statistics, logic, and political science n a spectacular way my friend. There is a extraordinarily large branch of statistics that is devoted to figuring out when coincidences/correlations occur often enough to be significant and not due to random chance. Ever heard of regression? Bivariate correlation matrix? Statistical significance?



I am not sure what else I can do for you - paint a picture maybe? If you cant accept something right in front of you, then I can offer no help.

I advise you go study game theory a bit. It is practically impossible for these massive conspiracy theories to be true as long as people are acting rational and pursuing their own self-interests. Not all actors are rational and some do not follow their own self-interest, but a vast majority do.

You must have failed statistics, logic, and political science n a spectacular way and your common sense has been abridged by your Mason training

There is ZERO chance that all the "coincidences suronding Freemasonry , are indeed coincidences-Zero chance,
hundreds of years of "coincidence"
thats what this guy wants you to buy

[marpat]

You must have failed statistics, logic, and political science n a spectacular way and your common sense has been abridged by your Mason training

There is ZERO chance that all the "coincidences suronding Freemasonry , are indeed coincidences-Zero chance,
hundreds of years of "coincidence"
thats what this guy wants you to buy

And the coincidence that Icke is linked to the illuminati god El by his numerical signature.

[elirien]

You must have failed statistics, logic, and political science n a spectacular way my friend. There is a extraordinarily large branch of statistics that is devoted to figuring out when coincidences/correlations occur often enough to be significant and not due to random chance. Ever heard of regression? Bivariate correlation matrix? Statistical significance?

well I am in fact studying lately a small bit about sampling maths that are used in statistical calculations. but that has nothing to do with basic mathematical logic which is on the binary true false system which is the essentail core in this matter. maths are applied to the basis of a perfect universe of the mathematician which fails every 10 odd years by addition of new criteria and elements. In these frail concepts a new element is always considered a "miracle" or "anomaly" or "coincidence" or "anomalous synchronicty". 10 days later it'll become science. Again coincidence failed for the millionth time in philosophical history. statistical mathematics focus on generalization based on sampling. Odds are rounded off.

My knowledge on detail in this subject lacks. I can't cite any theory name but as far as I have interpreted this it looks like this in the very small world of mathematics which is miniscule compared to reality where nothing is a coincidence but in effect based on cause and effect. being ignorant to the cause doesn't mean that cause and effect failed.



I am not sure what else I can do for you - paint a picture maybe? If you cant accept something right in front of you, then I can offer no help.

I advise you go study game theory a bit. It is practically impossible for these massive conspiracy theories to be true as long as people are acting rational and pursuing their own self-interests. Not all actors are rational and some do not follow their own self-interest, but a vast majority do.

No I understand you quite clearly :D Although what game theory can do for me in matters of plain reality I am not sure. Could game theory convince me that there is never ever deliberate planing going on in politics that goes behind the peoples back for misplaced service? What is that conspiracy theory you speak about?

[lightindarkness]

You must have failed statistics, logic, and political science n a spectacular way and your common sense has been abridged by your Mason training

There is ZERO chance that all the "coincidences suronding Freemasonry , are indeed coincidences-Zero chance,
hundreds of years of "coincidence"
thats what this guy wants you to buy

Yet another person who failed statistics.

First off what you classify as "coincidences" are not really coincidences at all but things you wish to be true based off hoaxes, disinformation, and propaganda. What remains is not much - in fact I have yet to find a "coincidence" that you believe in which is based in fact.

[lightindarkness]

well I am in fact studying lately a small bit about sampling maths that are used in statistical calculations. but that has nothing to do with basic mathematical logic which is on the binary true false system which is the essentail core in this matter. maths are applied to the basis of a perfect universe of the mathematician which fails every 10 odd years by addition of new criteria and elements. In these frail concepts a new element is always considered a "miracle" or "anomaly" or "coincidence" or "anomalous synchronicty". 10 days later it'll become science. Again coincidence failed for the millionth time in philosophical history. statistical mathematics focus on generalization based on sampling. Odds are rounded off.

Statistics is math, and odds are not rounded. It is indisputable that taking a critical sample of a population yields results which are completely generalizable to the population.


My knowledge on detail in this subject lacks. I can't cite any theory name but as far as I have interpreted this it looks like this in the very small world of mathematics which is miniscule compared to reality where nothing is a coincidence but in effect based on cause and effect. being ignorant to the cause doesn't mean that cause and effect failed.

Statistics is the science of studying the world as it is. Statistics tells us most things do occur to random chance, which is why we have to use so many tools to determine when something is not due to chance but when variables have a actual casual linkage.


No I understand you quite clearly :D Although what game theory can do for me in matters of plain reality I am not sure. Could game theory convince me that there is never ever deliberate planing going on in politics that goes behind the peoples back for misplaced service? What is that conspiracy theory you speak about?

Game theory is a model for how people act in plain reality. It explains why real massive scale collusion among game players is rare, and why massive conspiracies are not likely to ever have any basis in reality.

One thing you have to remember is scale: no one proposes people never collude. But the evidence suggests wide scale collusion is not probable - the more people that must collude the more problems accumulate to each player. As the circle of colluding players grows individuals begin to be incapable of knowing who they can trust (bounded rationality theory) and errors multiply as key players can no longer keep a tight span of control around their agents (principal-agent theory). Practically, this means any conspiracy among any group of people is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY, and if such a conspiracy could operate in reality it would not be able to do so for very long.

[banoyes]

Yet another person who failed statistics.

First off what you classify as "coincidences" are not really coincidences at all but things you wish to be true based off hoaxes, disinformation, and propaganda. What remains is not much - in fact I have yet to find a "coincidence" that you believe in which is based in fact.

Tell you what mr math wiz.

I will take the most odious
Freemasons on the Supreme Court
I will pick the years

or perhaps the most obvious
us presidents or vice president

There is Zero chance any math analysis will say
Yup
It a coincidence...
pull what ever out of your math bag.Ain't gonna work.

You are fooling no one with your "airy math"

[localidiot]

So I take it then you can name several high ranking Maosns, and proof of their affiliation then, correct?

[banoyes]

So I take it then you can name several high ranking Maosns, and proof of their affiliation then, correct?
ya

[localidiot]

ya

...
That was where you were supposed to list them, and the proof that they are Masons.

[elirien]

One thing you have to remember is scale: no one proposes people never collude. But the evidence suggests wide scale collusion is not probable - the more people that must collude the more problems accumulate to each player. As the circle of colluding players grows individuals begin to be incapable of knowing who they can trust (bounded rationality theory) and errors multiply as key players can no longer keep a tight span of control around their agents (principal-agent theory). Practically, this means any conspiracy among any group of people is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY, and if such a conspiracy could operate in reality it would not be able to do so for very long.

again: what conspiracy? I mean throwing a definition of a concept won't help here. We are not speaking theoretic right?

how does suspicion tie in with how people receive any "anomaly" as coincidence. And every one colluding is a fact anyway. That's the "human condition" as some would put it. Does human error make something a coincidence or not? let's have it this way. or is human error what we call coincidence?

[banoyes]

...
That was where you were supposed to list them, and the proof that they are Masons.
Naw That was a question you ask.
(Impossible for a mason to be straight forward)

Here you go mason
"From 1789 to the present, there have been 108 Justices of the United States Supreme Court. Depending on which source is consulted, 34, 36, 38, or 40 of them have been Freemasons. This means about one-third of the Supreme Court Justices were Masons, a far larger proportion than in the general population.

This might be just an interesting statistic, if they were Masons in name only, and some probably were. However, it appears that several were Masters of their Lodges, and some were Grand Masters of their Grand Lodges.

http://themasonictrowel.com/Articles/General/about_individual_files/us_supreme_court_justices_were_masons.htm

1949 to 1954, the highest percentage of Freemasons on the Supreme Court was reached, with 89% or 8 out of 9.
http://themasonictrowel.com/Articles/General/about_individual_files/us_supreme_court_justices_were_masons.htm

The following chart lists the Supreme Court Justices who are identified by one or more sources as having been Freemasons.

Name Dates of Service
John Jay Chief Justice 1789-1795
John Rutledge Chief Justice 1789-1791, 1795
William Cushing 1789-1810
John Blair, Jr. 1789-1796
William Paterson 1793-1806
Oliver Ellsworth Chief Justice 1796-1800
John Marshall Chief Justice 1801-1835
Thomas Todd 1807-1826
Joseph Story 1811-1845
Robert Trimble 1826-1828
John McLean 1829-1861
Henry Baldwin 1830-1844
John Catron 1837-1865
Samuel Nelson 1845-1872
Levi Woodbury 1845-1851
Noah H. Swayne 1862-1881
David Davis 1862-1877
Stephen J. Field 1863-1897
John M. Harlan 1877-1911
William B. Woods 1880-1887
Stanley Matthews 1881-1889
Samuel Blatchford 1882-1893
William H. Moody 1906-1910
Willis Van Devanter 1910-1937
Joseph R. Lamar 1910-1916
Mahlon Pitney 1912-1922
John H. Clarke 1916-1922
William H. Taft Chief Justice 1921-1930
Hugo L. Black 1937-1971
Stanley F. Reed 1938-1957
William O. Douglas 1939-1975
James F. Byrnes 1941-1942
Robert H. Jackson 1941-1954
Wiley B. Rutledge 1943-1949
Harold H. Burton 1945-1958
Fred M. Vinson Chief Justice 1946-1953
Tom C. Clark 1949-1967
Sherman Minton 1949-1956
Earl Warren Chief Justice 1953-1969
Potter C. Stewart 1958-1981
Thurgood Marshall 1967-1991

US Presidents
1 George Washington
2 James Monroe
3 Andrew Jackson
4 James K. Polk
5 James Buchanan
6 Andrew Johnson
7 James A. Garfield
8 William McKinley
9 Theodore Roosevelt
10 William H. Taft
11 Warren G. Harding
12 Franklin D. Roosevelt
13 Harry S. Truman
14 Gerald R. Ford
15 George H Bush
16 Bill Clinton
17 G W Bush
This is just the USA, there are many world "leaders" who were Freemasons, many Presidents from other countries were Freemasons , Mexico has had many Mason Presidents


Emilio Aguinaldo (Philippine Patriot and General),
Miguel Aleman (Mexican President 1947-52),
Edward Benes (President of Czechoslovakia 1939-48),
Sveinn Bjornsson (1st President of Iceland),
Simon Bolivar (ÒGeorge Washington of S. AmericaÓ)
Napoleon Bonaparte (and his four brothers),
King Charles XIII (King of Sweden 1748-1818),
King Edward VII and King Edward VIII (Kings of England, 1901-10 & 36, respectively),
Francis I and Francis II (Holy Roman Emperors, 1745-65 & 1768-1806),
Frederick the Great (King of Prussia 1740-86),
George I & George II (Kings of Greece, 1845-1913 & 1922-47),
George IV & George VI (Kings of England 1760-1820 & 1820-30),
Gustavus VI Adolphus (King of Sweden 1792-1809),
Kamehemeha IV and Kemehemeha V (Kings of Hawaii (1854-63 & 1863-72)
Leopold I (King of Belgium (1831-65),
Peter the Great (Emperor of Russia 1689-1725),
William I (King of Prussia 186188),
William II (King of the Netherlands (1792-1849),
William IV (King of England (1830-37) and many others.
http://www.huntsville364.org/Candidate%20Education%20Part%20II.htm

So go ahead math wiz, show us all that
Freemasons at every level of government
in countries around the world
is "coincidence"

[localidiot]

For God's sake I'm sick of being called a FreeMason.
What you've managed to do is list a lot of dead people who were Mason, stretching up to then a list of people who are currently living but uneligible for current government service.
I doubt your list, none of the Bushs were a member of Masonry, though Clinton was in Demolay and George Senior was in Skull and Bones.

What you've shown is that, for the most part a lot of dead people, have been in power at some point in time in the world.

Also, from your links:

There are some who would read decisions of the United States Supreme Court and see some Masonic influence in them, while others would say this is coincidental or does not exist at all. Perhaps those who have written judicial decisions about the equality of all people, the right of every human being to be treated with dignity, the importance of freedom of speech, religion, and thought, and fair and due process, were influenced directly or indirectly by those ideals in Freemasonry. However, it should be noted that some of the strongest Court decisions on these subjects have been written by non-Masons, or at times when there was a small percentage of Masons on the Court.


I can get a bigger list of Christians if you like.
These are people who have come and gone over the years, number of non masons in these feilds is much higher than the number of Masons.

[banoyes]

For God's sake I'm sick of being called a FreeMason.
What you've managed to do is list a lot of dead people who were Mason, stretching up to then a list of people who are currently living but uneligible for current government service.
I doubt your list, none of the Bushs were a member of Masonry, though Clinton was in Demolay and George Senior was in Skull and Bones.

What you've shown is that, for the most part a lot of dead people, have been in power at some point in time in the world.

Also, from your links:


I can get a bigger list of Christians if you like.
Even when shown the evidence- Freemasons deny-
( all they can do)
as if what we have today is not the accumulation of the past
we are in this position because of a "lot of dead people" and the live ones who follow
PS ,mason
They are not my links
they are mason links

[disconnex]

For example, did you know that for much of United States history 9 of 9 Supreme Court Justices, 100% of the House and Senate, and 100% of the Presidents thus far have been MALES? Surely this is proof of a massive world wide conspiracy of men!



I wouldn't say world wide but for sure in America. America made a big deal over either the first female president or the first black president. Why in this day is that still a big deal? America is full of racist and biggots and alot of the people in power play the good ol boy system. It wasn't until 1920 that the 19th amendment was put into action and then just in the 1960's that we had racial integration. So yes, I'd say that many of American are close minded.

[disconnex]

I can get a bigger list of Christians if you like.


Because the crusades were much better for humanity than the actions of freemasons?

[eppyone]

You typing something that came out of your paranoid head is NOT EVIDENCE, banoyes. You fruitcakes are entertaining though.

[banoyes]

You typing something that came out of your paranoid head is NOT EVIDENCE, banoyes. You fruitcakes are entertaining though.
They come from a mason site
guess reading ain't a needed skill in Arkansas

[banoyes]

For God's sake I'm sick of being called a FreeMason.
What you've managed to do is list a lot of dead people who were Mason, stretching up to then a list of people who are currently living but uneligible for current government service.
I doubt your list, none of the Bushs were a member of Masonry, though Clinton was in Demolay and George Senior was in Skull and Bones.

What you've shown is that, for the most part a lot of dead people, have been in power at some point in time in the world.

Also, from your links:


I can get a bigger list of Christians if you like.
These are people who have come and gone over the years, number of non masons in these feilds is much higher than the number of Masons.
Both Bushes are Skull and Bones-a Freemason offshoot

Well I take this to mean you cannot prove by any mathmatics all these coincidences are coincidences
You just spouted out BS to confuse and you ,as well as any one who read this, knew there was not a chance in hell that these coincidences are coincidences
Freemason denial,misdirection,distortion and lie
yup you are a perfect mason

[agneau]

And you are the perfect anti-freemason, Banoyes.

Sorry I've been away so long - they re-opened London Zoo, so I went down there to poke a few animals through the cages - but it turned out not to be as much fun as winding up the inhabitants here.....

[slartibartfast]

Because the crusades were much better for humanity than the actions of freemasons?

I am sure a lot of moslems thought that :(

[slartibartfast]

Both Bushes are Skull and Bones-a Freemason offshoot

Well I take this to mean you cannot prove by any mathmatics all these coincidences are coincidences
You just spouted out BS to confuse and you ,as well as any one who read this, knew there was not a chance in hell that these coincidences are coincidences
Freemason denial,misdirection,distortion and lie
yup you are a perfect mason

Go on, i'll bite. Skull and Bones has nothing to do with Freemasonry, fact.

You have produced a long list of names, some of whom were freemasons and some weren't. Has it never crossed your mind that people with an enquiring mind (like some of the people on here), would become interested in organisations promoting equality, tollerance, self development and service to humanity. Similarly, these atributes can be seen in certain sorts of prominent people up to and including Presidents.

So what you have is not people who rise in society because they are freemasons, but people who rise in society because they have the required attributes and traits.

I would recommend having a look at:-

Confounding (http://www.stats.bris.ac.uk/~maxvd/Consilience_Did.pdf)

which looks at causation and confounding caused by common factors.

[thelucifer]

Go on, i'll bite. Skull and Bones has nothing to do with Freemasonry, fact.

You have produced a long list of names, some of whom were freemasons and some weren't. Has it never crossed your mind that people with an enquiring mind (like some of the people on here), would become interested in organisations promoting equality, tollerance, self development and service to humanity. Similarly, these atributes can be seen in certain sorts of prominent people up to and including Presidents.

So what you have is not people who rise in society because they are freemasons, but people who rise in society because they have the required attributes and traits.

I would recommend having a look at:-

Confounding (http://www.stats.bris.ac.uk/~maxvd/Consilience_Did.pdf)

which looks at causation and confounding caused by common factors.


Yea, but that fact is used in attempt to negate another fact, that being, there is no visible difference in some telling ways.

Just as Freemasonry and the KKK had nothing to do with each other, but, in the day there was no visible difference in some sadly telling ways.

[slartibartfast]

Yea, but that fact is used in attempt to negate another fact, that being, there is no visible difference in some telling ways.

Just as Freemasonry and the KKK had nothing to do with each other, but, in the day there was no visible difference in some sadly telling ways.

But the thing is that the whole "Freemasons rule the world" scenario only works if all these different organisations and clubs are actually the same and not just visibly the same.

[localidiot]

I'm not good at math, so I'm not going to bother trying to guess what percentage of the population was part of the Masons.

However, seeing as how the majority of Masons are white, Christian, and Male, and that the majority of the government (though that's changing, much as the better in both group) is made up of White Christian Males that there would be an overlap isn't amazing.
Just as you also have senators and congressmen who are/were members of the Moose Lodge, Prince Williams Lodge, or any other number of Fraternal groups through the country.

As for Skull and Bones, nothing indicates that the founders had any Masonic ties, and it's formation doesn't encourage a Masonic connection either.
That's not to say that there have been no FreeMasons in Skull and Bones, likely there were. Though there membership likely was unrelated to Masonry of itself.

[banoyes]

I'm not good at math, so I'm not going to bother trying to guess what percentage of the population was part of the Masons.

.
0.06% of the population is mason
and 89% of the Supreme Court justices were Freemason
just a coincidence,,,go back to sleep

[stewart edwards]

0.06% of the population is mason
and 89% of the Supreme Court justices were Freemason
just a coincidence,,,go back to sleepWhen Freemasonry is working properly, then surely this would be a good thing. While fraternities do have variations the UGLE tenet is a good one to quote here "Freemasons strive for truth" which would be a good attribute of a Supreme Court Justice to have.

[thelucifer]

To understand the Supreme Court bldg is at the Right Horn = Power Power (because the horn is a symbol for power, and Right is also a symbol for power hence left is lame) and that 89% of the justices therein have been masons is so serious.

The beast has 2 powers/Horns (the court/power of law, and the Library of Congress/power of knowledge), the Supreme Court being the strongest of the two hence power power.

Note, to understand left is not totally lame is to understand the court is noting without a power that is based via knowledge.


Funny how those that most clearly state/teach/show the pursuit/power of knowledge/light is good, deny/withhold it.
Freemasonry Judges people unworthy of that pursuit/power, damning someone to darkness (not that freemasonry is true light).


Again, 89% for the right horn.

[kalabaster]

0.06% of the population is mason


Is that USA population you are talking about here?

[lightindarkness]

To understand the Supreme Court bldg is at the Right Horn = Power Power (because the horn is a symbol for power, and Right is also a symbol for power hence left is lame) and that 89% of the justices therein have been masons is so serious.

The beast has 2 powers/Horns (the court/power of law, and the Library of Congress/power of knowledge), the Supreme Court being the strongest of the two hence power power.

Note, to understand left is not totally lame is to understand the court is noting without a power that is based via knowledge.


Funny how those that most clearly state/teach/show the pursuit/power of knowledge/light is good, deny/withhold it.
Freemasonry Judges people unworthy of that pursuit/power, damning someone to darkness (not that freemasonry is true light).


Again, 89% for the right horn.

Again, you keep quoting things that you've made up or someone else has made up. I want you to list, exactly, every single Justice you believe has been a mason along with their lodge number. Copying and pasting from a conspiracy blog won't work because these lists are made up - real famous masons are widely known and so are their lodges.

Do it, or stop spreading your government propaganda.

[lightindarkness]

Both Bushes are Skull and Bones-a Freemason offshoot

Well I take this to mean you cannot prove by any mathmatics all these coincidences are coincidences
You just spouted out BS to confuse and you ,as well as any one who read this, knew there was not a chance in hell that these coincidences are coincidences
Freemason denial,misdirection,distortion and lie
yup you are a perfect mason

You are hopeless. You think everything is a freemasonry offshot. There is NO relation between skull and bones and freemasonry.

And quite to the contrary, the statistics says what you have is a coincidence. About half your list aren't masons to begin with.

[hexstatic]

over half the members of the house of commons are known freemasons.

also to be come super intendant at any uk police station you have to become a freemason. i was told this by an independant person who was offered promotion aslong as he became a freemason, he declined and handed in his resignation.


...i wonder if theres something going on we're not supposed to know about... hmm.......

[lightindarkness]

over half the members of the house of commons are known freemasons.

also to be come super intendant at any uk police station you have to become a freemason. i was told this by an independant person who was offered promotion aslong as he became a freemason, he declined and handed in his resignation.


...i wonder if theres something going on we're not supposed to know about... hmm.......

Hmm..I wonder if you are just making this up or going on hearsay? Hmm...

Yep.

Please list each member of the House of Commons and their lodge number. It should be very easy to do if they are freemasons, because freemasonry widely advertises any "famous" members it has.

Please offer proof you have to be a Freemason to get a promotion. A "someone told someone who told someone" means its just a urban legend that is preying off your fears.

[banoyes]

You are hopeless. You think everything is a freemasonry offshot. There is NO relation between skull and bones and freemasonry.

And quite to the contrary, the statistics says what you have is a coincidence. About half your list aren't masons to begin with.
These guys just yap
All the names of Freemason come from Freemasons site
and this guy says "half your list aren't masons to begin with"
geezzee
deny.deny,deny ,if that don't work, deny some more

[lightindarkness]

These guys just yap
All the names of Freemason come from Freemasons site
and this guy says "half your list aren't masons to begin with"
geezzee
deny.deny,deny ,if that don't work, deny some more

Liar, liar. Nice try, government disinformation agent. Show me ONE SINGLE freemason website which proclaims George Bush and Bill Clinton are masons.

You fail.

Again.

[banoyes]

Liar, liar. Nice try, government disinformation agent. Show me ONE SINGLE freemason website which proclaims George Bush and Bill Clinton are masons.

You fail.

Again.
AHH ,mason
There are quite a few MAson sites who claim Clinton (DeMolay)
The Bush boys are there for you to find , and claim no connection to S&B,
so ok
there are no Mason sites who will claim Bush
you got me on that one.
didn't find any claiming Skull&Bones either
amazing

Point really was more your claim
"almost half were not masons

and you come up with
ONE, as in 1

So there you go

[lightindarkness]

AHH ,mason
There are quite a few MAson sites who claim Clinton (DeMolay)
The Bush boys are there for you to find , and claim no connection to S&B,
so ok
there are no Mason sites who will claim Bush
you got me on that one.
didn't find any claiming Skull&Bones either
amazing

Point really was more your claim
"almost half were not masons

and you come up with
ONE, as in 1

So there you go

LIAR, LIAR, LIAR.

Clinton being a DeMoley member is NOT being a mason. Its a young man's organization, much like the boy scouts.

Actually I have else where debunked your long lists which you completely ignore. Stop spreading your lies and government disinformation, fascist.

[boots]

LIAR, LIAR, LIAR.

What a little school boy attitude:rolleyes: I can just imagine you. I want my lolly pop, give me my lolly pop mummy. God you are pathetic.:rolleyes:

Clinton being a DeMoley member is NOT being a mason. Its a young man's organization, much like the boy scouts.

A organization that leads to bigger and better evils. Of course your to stupid to see that.

Actually I have else where debunked your long lists which you completely ignore. Stop spreading your lies and government disinformation, fascist.

No you have not. Your full of shit. So you FAIL AGAIN, loser. Now stop spreading your lies and government disinformation. FASCIST. Go and crawl back into your box, where you belong, illuminati stooge.






.

[elirien]

http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/modules/secim2007/parti_logolari/buyuk_logolar/akp_logo.gif

These are the rulers of my country lately. lightindarkness any one :D

Ahh. Just a coincidence my dear nothing to worry about. You poke some dudes half bare chest with a dagger (which is really not gay really). That's far more important.

[banoyes]

LIAR, LIAR, LIAR.

Clinton being a DeMoley member is NOT being a mason. Its a young man's organization, much like the boy scouts.
Sure
Deny,Deny,Deny

Actually I have else where debunked your long lists which you completely ignore. Stop spreading your lies and government disinformation, fascist.
"lies and government disinformation, fascist."
Heres a fact for you
search my name, it will come up
only a shill would say anything like that about me
and
You haven't the capacity to debunk anything

[stewart edwards]

Heres a fact for you
search my name, it will come upI did on your youtube channel this came up WARNING TO TRUTH SEEKERS: This account is part of a clandestine governmental internet project. It's aim is to both spread disinformation and to keep us busy and distracted. This account is not a persons, but, rather, a project's. Not that I pay any attention to such comments, especially by people who dont post under their real name.

I am however, from my brief google search on you, very interested in your views on ufos, banoyes, is there a thread here where you have expressed them? I believe in ufos, aliens etc.

[disconnex]

"lies and government disinformation, fascist."


That word, fascist, gets thrown around alot in here. It's like saying someone is stupid because they disagree with you. After the name calling you'll get caught in a circle of citing proof for your debate when google is just a click away.

[banoyes]

I did on your youtube channel this came up Not that I pay any attention to such comments, especially by people who dont post under their real name.

I am however, from my brief google search on you, very interested in your views on ufos, banoyes, is there a thread here where you have expressed them? I believe in ufos, aliens etc.
never use google,except for video
This is my name
I have been posting with it for years
stopped beliving

[stewart edwards]

never use google,except for video
This is my name
I have been posting with it for years
stopped belivingSorry I wasnt clear, I meant the name of the person (string of o's I think) who posted the comment about you that I quoted.

[banoyes]

Sorry I wasnt clear, I meant the name of the person (string of o's I think) who posted the comment about you that I quoted.
Yah
Just more of the same from the mason minded, BS

[lightindarkness]

That word, fascist, gets thrown around alot in here. It's like saying someone is stupid because they disagree with you. After the name calling you'll get caught in a circle of citing proof for your debate when google is just a click away.

Actually, I only use it when it applies. People who try to shut out freedom of association and shut down a organization that believes in equality and liberty are fascists by definition, and all the great fascists in the world applaud shutting down freemasonry. Can't have too many ideals about equality floating around! Stalin would be proud of banoyes.

[lightindarkness]

Sure
Deny,Deny,Deny

"lies and government disinformation, fascist."
Heres a fact for you
search my name, it will come up
only a shill would say anything like that about me
and
You haven't the capacity to debunk anything

No amount of ignoring truth is going to change things, fascist. DeMoley is a children's organization. Find one DeMoley site that claims it is freemasonry, just one.

If you are going to believe your own lies you also probably think the Boy Scouts is ruling the world, eh?

Your disinformation campaign has been debunked.

[banoyes]

No amount of ignoring truth is going to change things, fascist. DeMoley is a children's organization. Find one DeMoley site that claims it is freemasonry, just one.

If you are going to believe your own lies you also probably think the Boy Scouts is ruling the world, eh?

Your disinformation campaign has been debunked.
Can't get much more Freemason then this

[mike martin]

Can't get much more Freemason then this

I'd be interested to read what you think Demolay is?

I only know what I read as we don't have it hear in Britain, it's an American thing a bit like the Order of the Eastern Star (although they do have OES in Scotland)

Mike

[banoyes]

I'd be interested to read what you think Demolay is?

I only know what I read as we don't have it hear in Britain, it's an American thing a bit like the Order of the Eastern Star (although they do have OES in Scotland)

Mike
"Ask a Mason"

[mike martin]

"Ask a Mason"
I asked for your opinion?

As I can see Masons telling you but you basically telling them they're wrong!

So as I said I would be interested to read what you think it is?

Mike

[banoyes]

I asked for your opinion?

As I can see Masons telling you but you basically telling them they're wrong!

So as I said I would be interested to read what you think it is?

Mike
Freemason training program, please save the "good works" crap for the naive

[keystone]

Ben - why can't you answer Mike. I've also asked for YOUR opinion on things in the past but you never answer. Why is that? Is it because you have no opinon?