911 truth movement

[fccool]

I was looking into some of the clues left after 9-11, and these are numerous. So many countless "mistakes" that it is almost impossible to miss it. I could not help, but ask myself: "If this is really a cover up of the century, then why so many blatent mistakes?" These people posess the technology beyond our belief, and yet you think they would fake the plane crashes at Shanksville and the Pentagon? I don't think they are that stupid. If they did not want people to notice they would fly the real planes in like in the case of WTCs. They could easily do it, but they did not. Why?

Why leave so many clues for the thinking part of the population to pick up? They knew what they were doing from the get go.

1) Speculated on the airline shares. They could not possibly think people would not notice.
2) Explosives in the buildings went off hours before the collapse. Just a fluke? A hole in perfect plan?
3) GW sitting in the classroom and not moving for half an hour and then lying about the first plane crash on the TV. They could have moved and acted like they were supposed to and people would not have noticed.
4) Blatent absence of the plane debree in Pentagon and Shanksville crashes. Why make it so obvious? Even people on the scene knew... the investigators... telling that there was just a huge hole in the ground and nothing else.
5) WTC7 demolition. The most blatant one... why make it so obvious? They could have easily staged the fire and burned the evidence, if you think that was of any concern, but they pulled the building down and both major news stations announced it before the buildings fell. Why make a mistake of leaking information to the news networks?


These are just some of the few ones. So, either these people are stupid (which I doubt they are), or they are arrogant ( could be a possibility), but could there be much more to this at first glance? If I would try to deceive people, I would make sure that it would be all of the people and not just half or 75%.

It just dawned on me, but who is at the forefront of the 911 movement? Rosie and Charlie Sheen, need I say more? How does the Truth movement present the truth? Watching some of the people like Alex Jones and his likes, and I can't help but think... these people are psychos. What are they plan to accomplish by blasting those polotical pandits on the street? And these are the people who get the most following. It's 90% emotions and 10% reason. Some of those kids I have no clue what they are doing. They saw a documentary like Loose Change and think that they know the truth. They don't realize, that the truth is hidden behind 5 layers of deceit and everything is not that obvious. If it is obvious, then it is intentionally so.

So, let me get to the point... where I'm going with all of this. You can't look at the at the 9-11 as one dimentional event and say that you can pin point out the culprits. It is highly unlikely that people behind the scenes would let themselves to be seen. There are people in this world that even the most powerful ones will not go against. To whom the presidents bow down. What is the only real way to unite the world under one roof? When you ask yourself this question... you will slowly start to notice patterns emmerge. When you see the whole picture, you can't help by marvel by genious of it all, and can't help to be disgusted at the same time.

Have you ever been angry? Been scared? In love? Desperate? Impulsively greedy? Ever wish to take something back you did when in these states of mind? People tend to do most irrational things when they experience any of the above. The goal is to make you experience as many of these at once and for extended period of time... then channel your reaction into a proper venue to achieve the desired outcome. More than half of the people in the US are suffereing from some kind of mental instability... depression, "ADD", anger control problems, social anxiety. If you push all of these over what they emotionaly can handle, people will snap. Every one of us has a breaking point. You will do whatever is needed to save youself. It is a natural reaction of subcontious brain.

Now lets take a closer look at the resent events.

911 - sent people into a state of euforia , and still angers many every day because of the govenment's lies.

IRAQ - sent people deeper into euforia, and angers more and more people every day because of the blatant lies and atrocities transpiring.

News Agaencies - promote fear, depression, hopelesness, and intentioanlly try to piss people off... If you ever watched O'riely or Hannity, or Olberman for that matter... They don't report. Their objective seems to be pissing people of the opposite camp off. There are no rational debates anymore. People yelling and screaming, name calling. It is hillarious to watch. All of those "rational" people get caught into the trap all the time. It is called mind control for a reason. I don't have to change your mind about something. I can make you extremely angry. Come to dark side, Luke :) release your anger :)

Illegal Immigration - need I say more?

And now my favourite - world economy. My goodness, what a perfect set up! And all arriving just in time for the big show. The world debt is insolvent. USA - the "bastion" of world economy was set up to fall from the very beginning. I think even from the time the US was formed. Crashing the economy is the only way to unite the world under one roof, because it does not matter who you are and how honest you are... you still want to eat, and you are used to your basic luxuries that the system has to offer. Some of you have jobs, some of you own businesses and some of you would kill before you loose these. Ever asked yourself.... what would I do without those cheap wallmart goods? What would I do without department store or a supermarket? What would I do without NBA finals, the march madness or the superbowl? What would I do if the gasoline was $20 per gallon? What would I do if my house was taken for not being able to keep up with the mortgage? Loose my job with family to feed... Well, if you have not asked youself these questions ... you better get cracking. The iceberg is about to collide and the water is pretty cold overboard.

If you still not sure where I'm going with all of this. Described above are the actions. You are the reaction...the growing truth movement... and you will eventually, when it hit the fan, "you" will be fed a solution. The truth crumbs are being left in public's eye for a reason. My hope is that you would dig a little bit deeper and be rational. There's no reason scream you heads out on the streets. You are not going to accomplish anything that way. Engage in intelligent conversations with your friends and family. Ask the right questions. When you talking about something, make sure that you know what you are talking about and not simply repeating what David Icke or Alex Jones said. Screw Ickes and Joneses, research for yourself. You have everything they have... so don't make messiahs out of people. Verify the information, because much of it is bullshit even if it is comeing out of the most intelligent people. Masonry and Zionism are being framed as distruction for what you really should be looking at. Above all, be willing to loose everything and still be ok with it. All that crap accumulating in you house is really worthless. Don't sweat over it. Your life is the most expensive thing you've got.

Hope you find my rant interesting

[barbitone]

Some very good points in there. I do think that the Alex Jones level of understanding is really just the next level up in the prison system.....like going from a small cell to a bigger cell. Better but still in there.

I think it's as simple as this: if there is still hatred and fear and any kind of you Vs me sort of attitude, you may be getting closer but you aint there yet.

To really get anywhere there has to be a good level of compassion, forgiveness and yes, love. If you cannot love your enemies your done.

I like the Oscar Wilde quote from Infinite Love - "Forgive your enemies, nothing annoys them so" :D

PS (Isn't Alex Jones christian? , there's a brickwall right there.)

[stoner22]

I don't profess to be an expert on any of this as i am pretty new to all this stuff(although i have doubted the 9/11 account since very early).
I also asked myself the same questions,you would imagine that if you were going to try and tell people a plane crashed in a certain place you would at least have a plane wreckage at the scene.
You mention why leave clues for the thinking part of the population? i just think that the thinking part of the population is such a small percentage that it doesn't matter,the majority are happy to read the rubbish in the papers,believe every word they hear on the BBC news,and settle down to the the latest reality TV show.
As someone pointed out to me on another thread,the average Joe is too scared to admit to themselves that their government is capable of killing their own citizens,they would rather just bury their head in the sand.
I just think that the vast majority are so brainwashed it really doesn't matter what the powers that be do,all they want to hear is some politician come on tv and tell them everything is going to be ok,just like you do when your child wakes in the night from a nightmare.
People would much rather worry about whether they have the latest plasma tv or a new car or where they are going for the annual vacation(is it a better holiday than the couple over the road),and if they can afford them,then to them the world isn't such a bad place.

[fccool]

Thank you for your replies and thoughts ,especially all the way from Australia :). I'm Auctually planning to move there in a couple of years. What both of you said is spot on. People do not care about anything except here and now, BUT it looks like the time is coming when their "now" will be taken away from them. There will be no more cars and TVs and pre-packaged fast food. Once the global card house of economy goes down who do you think they will blame this on? The Truth movement? I don't think so :). It will be the government. But the truth movement is the one who claims to have all the answers, but are these good answers that they have. When I tell people right now that banks create credit, they don't think of it much. Now, when everything coming down and somebody will tell them that the banks are a part of the problem, and the government is complicit... do you think they will just sit there? French revolutions alone are pretty good examples of what angered people can do. When I watch something recent Wachovski Bros films ... i.e. Matrix and V for Vendetta, it is amazing how much knowledge of the present and possibly even future they put into their films (Matrix of course being an allegory). Matrix is basically the ignorance that people live in. Once they wake up they see that the world around them is a socio-economic construct that turns people into nothing more than batteries that fuel it to work perpetually. Most of the people are like Cypher and would rather stay in ignorance and have no worries. Most of the people would rather believe in a lie thanbe uncomfortable, but when they will be forced to be uncomfortable how would they know the truth? They won't have time to research and spend years like we do. I doubt that the Internet will be functional, and mark my words... you will be surprised what kind of solutions "the truth" movement will provide in the midst of all this.

Now, you talked about Alex Jones being a self proclaimed "Christian" and that being a brick wall. Here's what you have to understand. I constantly have to ask myself these questions. How do I know I know the truth? And how do I prove that I know that what I know is the truth? And the answer essencially is... I can't. Now why do I say this? I work as a visual effects artist and from time to time I do animations for news companies (pretty large ones from time to time). One day I've rendered out the Earth and decided to flip it upside down, because the animation seemed to work better that way as all of the elements worked in sychronisity. I've sent the animation for approval to the commity ( a camel is a horse put together by a commity) and they came back with : " Everything looks great, but the earth is the wrong side up. The north america should be at the top". I thought to myself... well how could I be so stupid to miss this, and then I though, wait a minute here... How do we know what is the top and what is the bottom? There is none. You don't know top from bottom... as these are just words to describe things that being pulled down by gravity. If I rotate one thing ... it's top becomes its bottom and vice-versa. But you see... what they meant is that most people perceive that North America is the top and South is the buttom, and therefore they are uncomfortable with anything else.
So I know it is a long analogy, but essencially we know nothing outside of other people telling us and occasionaly what we find out ourselves. Now, one of you lives in Australia... how do I know Australia exists? Well, I must admit I've never been there, but I know people who has. It is also on the map, and I know that the planes fly there. After all the airline comanies would not lie to millions of people. Now I can verify the existance of Australia. When Icke from stage screams " Well, check it out, mate" how does he suppose me to do that ? We can't check out something that we can't see... especially the past. Creation, Evolution, whatever-it-is-ism is a matter of faith as much as you might not like the word. Faith is boils down to believing something that you can not see. Now how do we know that the solar system is Heliocentric? How the hell did they come up with that conclusion? If the motion is relative, then essencially you can't say it is one way or the other :)!!!! If you all of a sudden wake up in a moving train and it was a silent moving train and there were two other trains on each side... you could percieve that the other two are moving and you are standing still. Now I know it could be ignorant of me to say this, because it was "proven" that the earth rotates around the sun... but it's something for you to think about. Certain things can not be proven, many times past events can not be proven... especially when you are talking about origins. Now, I have no doubt that Icke has much of the truth, but you have to understand that he believes just like you and I and he can't check it out. I highly doubt that he saw any reptilians that he is talking about himself. And I highly doubt that he even saw a real Satanic ritual with human sacrifices. I'm not saying that this kind of stuff is not going on,but I doubt people would live to escape and talk about these. Even if they do, you have to excersise faith to believe. So... with that out of the way.

Christianity has been mixed with shit for generations and misconstrued with many different things. Even Icke quotes from Revelation himself proclaiming the microchip to be the mark of the beast as he himself probably has not even read the Bible as a book (from cover to cover). Well let me make something streight here . Catholicism is not Christianity. Protestantism is not Christianity. And if you go to a church, you probably won't find it practiced there... because there is no such thing as Judeo-Christianity. These two diametrically oppose each other. Now before we move on to the topic of religion and somebody here does not consider himself a religios person let me point out a dictionary definition of "religion" to make things clear:

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Most of the people talking about "religion" can't even define a word clearly. We are sorrounded by religious beliefs. Every day you believe in about 20.

Modern medicine is a religion - believes in chance as being superhuman creator and evolution being the "hand of God" so to speak ... does have a moral code and definetly abides by certain rules and rituals many of which you have to believe by faith. Doctors are priests. People have no problem believing it and paying their dues to the priests for magic potion... athough some of which kills them every day. Do you believe in modern medicine?

Politics - need I say more?

Economics - same pattern here... with consumerism being a cult offspring :)

Science - a big one... claims to be "not religion" but ends up being the biggest religion there is. "Scientific theory" is a religious statement!

David Icke - cosmic contiousness, moral codes, ultimate love...

I can go on and on... so when people are saying that they are not religious and that they don't excersise religious beliefs... My answer to them is - BULL :) and you know it :). Every one person on this planet excercising and believing some kind of religion by pure definition of that word... so another way of saying it. If you have a set of beliefs that you can not absolutely and undeniably present a physical evidence of, then you are practicing a religious belief.

So essencially if this world was created by Satan, like some believe, you can't prove or disprove that notion. You can only speculate that there is alot of care and thought was put in creating it that it could only be in Love in its purest forms. Look at human body itself. We receive pleasure from such simple things as eating and drinking. We have emotion... and sex is a wonderfull thing. If our planet would be a couple more miles closer to the sun we would all be dead, a couple miles further - we'd freeze to death. Everything is in dependance with everything and was designed with care and diligence. If you think that male/female reproductive system happened by chance I have a bridge in Iraq for sale :). Every single system for that matter - nervous , circulatory, digestive, respiratory - none of which will act by itself. It is trully a miricle. If chance can put together something so intelligent and orderly, then why is it associated with chaos?

Coming back to Christianity. Icke claims that the original Christians borrowed the trinity from Babylonian culture sun worship. Here's the problem. Christianity and it's latter offspring - Islam are few religions believing in intelligent animate god that exists outside of nature which he/she/it created. Judaism today is essencially a Cabbalism and rejects the notion of such God, but more pantheistic in its belief - everything is god... like you probably believe... one cosmic contiousness. So here's a problem with Icke's assumption... Historical record only goes so far. What we've only discovered today is not everything there is to know. We don't know much about pre-summerian civilizations and it would be ignorant to assume that they were THE ONLY AND THE FIRST. Now, many may deny the divine origins of the Bible, but it still remains one of the most historicly accurate books to date. So if the people who wrote it did have persuit of historical truth (unfortunatly the people who claim the descendence of these don't have such a pursuit anymore) then they probably had the same persuite of truth in general. If you read the Bible.... 90% percent of people who wrote it were murdered brutally by their own people. The rest were very close to the same fate. So something they were saying was not going too well with other. So what were they saying .... basically - " Stop what you are doing, or you will self distruct pretty soon... because you are going agains the basic principles upon which this world was built."

Now, if you do believe that this world did not just come about by cosmic chance which we are all a product of (if so, then then history is such too), then you must inescapibly believe that there is a creator. Now, when whatever it is you believe created this world... he/she/it must have some rules to set this world in motion. You can't jsut jump of an airplane and expect to fly. You can't breathe underwater and you can't survive for more than 4 days in the desert without drinking. Now, these are the kind of laws that the people have no problem with. These are undesputable laws. Now, if you believe that that creator gave us intellect ( the software for our bodies) and ability to choose (something I can not explain metaphorically :), wouldn't you think that there are also guidlines that would either do us harm or profit us and assure that we function properly as individual or as a society? If you eat poison you will die. That's undisputable. That's physical poison. What would be a mental poison? What causes people to lie, steal and kill each other for ultimatelly nothing but things that exists in their mind? Ever asked youself that? Sin as Christianity describes it is not some dubious notion of eating a fruit off certain tree. That was symbolic and it has VERY LITTLE to do with physical doing. It is mental state of perpetual self destruction, morally and physically. It is failure to observe and follow the "operation manual" for relation to ourself and the others around us. The true Christianity has very little to do with "master - slave" obedience that people make out of it. If you believe that whatever you believe created this world, then it has claim to this world... but it did give this world to us and does not seem to show up and scream in our ears " look at me ... do this or die". It let's us choose what to do! But the principles... the "operation manual" were left behind in one way or another as the only few truths in the world... that I believe people knew from the beginning. Our "advanced" civilization can't live without electricity and can't add two thing without a box sitting near. If people really practiced Christianity in its true form - the teachings of Jesus and the law of God as guidlines, then we would not have this discussion I guess :). It was Jesus who taught "Love your neighbour as thyself and love (respect as a creator) God". People did not like that too much for some reason, and did not like the idea of everyone being empowered. So they killed him, so the sacrifice was not as much as dubious payment for our transgressions as humanity, but rather a path (example) out by changing the way you look at things and think. If you go to church without thinking and sitting and listening and going through the motions, then it does not matter. Polititians and rulers hid behind the name for centuries. Papacy itself killed millions of people claiming to the "the work of god". I don't know work of which God they are doing... but the God said -- don't kill. Polititians are stealing peoples money everyday claiming to do the work of God... when it's plain simple - don't steal. These are a basic fabric of any society. Have no other god's before me ... is simply respecting the creator for what he is and giving us choices in life and using these wisely. Icke did not come up with the Infinite Love concept, it is the idea that Christianity carries. So people can not possibly call themselves Christian if they disreguard the basics of these.

So you see there's a perspective for everything. The brick wall you are talking about, ... you could be on the other side of it and building at night while sleepwalking :). Peace.

[barbitone]

Wow dude. That would've taken me all day to type! You're verging on the big stuff there about relative perspective and the like...right on. Everything is only a thing because of that which is not. You cant have something without nothing.
Time and space are relative. If everything were 6feet tall there would be no such thing be definition......err..yeah this stuff is hard to talk about but makes heaps of sense to me.

If your always asking your self these questions and keeping this level of awareness...I think that's it, you know. What more can you do whilst in the time loop?


There's heaps I'd like to discuss here but I'm slack at the mo.

[moose]

I understand what you are saying completely but Icke is only perceived as a 'messiah' as he has been researching for 16 years, i was 7 when he started & would not even have been able to even start to comprehend what he has done. somethings he has said have & are happening, this gives his stuff backbone & the reason why he is no longer laughed at. People are starting to listen.

My point is that I cannot & don't have the time to research for myself so I have to depend on people such as David for information. I can't use 16 years of my life to get to his stage, because in the end, it won't matter what I know anyway. I have to go along with the 'Matrix' to survive in this world.

But I do agree, nothing is how it seems, (i gather you had a point like that?)

[fccool]

Now, don't take it as me hammering on Icke. I respect his efforts, although I can not completely rule out the financial motives behind it. But we all have to eat, so I don't particularly critisize him for it. He has opened my eyes to many things, but also to many things to what he is doing himself I can't help but to question.

Reptilians... now he blindly seems to believe that this world is run by interdimentional shapeshifting reptilians. But here's the problem... I don't recall him saying that he has seen one before. People come to him saying they have seen these, so he bases the theory on heresay and the legends left by Zulu people. Now I can't prove or disprove this theory, but what is more ridiculous is that he would call Christianity a lie based on so called "facts" he digged up from people who said who quoted a people who said, who in turn quoted people who said. Why can't people see through this huge hole in his argument? Both are faith based beliefs. Whether you go and listen to your pastor preach, or to Icke talk you receive the information second hand. Both are essentially saying similar things. Icke is telling you do check it out for yourself, but it is almost sounds like a bullshit marketing ploy, because you can't check it out for youself. He himself can't check it out. We can all reason and come up with theories, but essentially these are all just that... a theory. To believe in theory takes faith. The written formulation of faith is dogma, whether you like it or not :). So the man is just as dogmatic as anyone. So to sum up, yes... everything is not what it seems. And it's confusing the hell out of me, because frankly I don't even know whom to believe anymore. And I think that that is essencially a goal of the ones who rule us... to confuse the hell out of us. So unless we can start thinking clearly and actually question everything, even what Icke is saying... only then you will start to trully see what is going on.

You don't need 16 years to learn to see through the bullshit. All you need is a bit of logic and intuition. 9-11 is bulshit, not only the official story... but also the story the truthers would like you to believe. Reminds me of a quote from the "Minority Report"

" You know what's wrong with this scene? ... The orgy of evidence.... I've worked as a detective for a long time, and do you know how many times I've had an orgy of evidence? None..."

There's an enormous orgy of evidence at 9-11 crime scene pointing you to a certain direction. Granted that many people can't even see that, but the curtains will be pulled back and right now we have hollywood stars at the forefront of the "truth" movement. Those are the people who pretend to be someone else for a living and live lives that never was and never will be. Those are the people at the forefront of the truth? So all I'm saying... question everything. Everything means everything. Truth is unatractive. Many people would rather watch a movie...

[bigus_dickus]

just quoting an article i found.. there is a serious problem with eye witnesses, well known to authorities and psychologists. the eye witness' description is most times influenced, biased and almost never accurate.

this also goes for you, whoever you are, watching an event anywhere that might be, in front of you, or the television, or a picture, or anything.

(basically, this is how we "create" our reality, because "reality" is about the world and not the world itself. the world itself includes "unreality" as a whole, which we have no idea about, it just doesn't exist whatever it is)

The problem with eyewitnesses (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4177082.stm)
By Finlo Rohrer
BBC News

Commuter holds a copy of the Daily Mail with the headline: How did they get it so wrong?
Many have been baffled by the mistakes eyewitnesses made

The aftermath of the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes at Stockwell Tube station has shown that eyewitness testimony may not always be as reliable as it seems.

On the day Mr Menezes was killed, a picture was quickly painted by eyewitnesses of a suspect who had vaulted over a ticket barrier, ran away from police, and had worn a bulky jacket that could have concealed a device.

Scotland Yard did nothing to dispel that impression, saying that the shooting had been "directly linked" to anti-terrorism operations, that Mr Menezes had been challenged but had not obeyed, and that the victim's "clothing and behaviour" had added to suspicions.

Over the last month, the image of Mr Menezes' conduct has been slowly dispelled, before being completely shattered by Independent Police Complaints Commission documents leaked to ITV News.

Identification errors

According to the documents, Mr Menezes was wearing a light denim shirt or jacket, walked through the barriers having picked up a free newspaper, and only ran when he saw his train arriving.

It has left many scratching their heads as to how the witnesses could have got it so wrong.

The reliability of eyewitness accounts of crime has proved a rich seam for psychologists and criminologists to mine over the years.


DISTORTING FACTORS
Stress
Presence of a gun
Conferring with others
Leading questions
Media coverage
Misinterpretation

Andrew Roberts, a lecturer in law at Leeds University specialising in evidence, said courts have recognised for a long time that eyewitness identification evidence is "inherently unreliable".

Two cases helped change the view in British courts, he said.

In 1969, Laszlo Virag was convicted of stealing from parking meters and using a firearm while trying to escape police officers. Despite his alibi and other contradictions, he was identified by eight witnesses as the man who committed the crime.

While he was in prison it was found another person had committed the crime and he was pardoned.

In 1972, Luke Dougherty was convicted of shoplifting after two witnesses picked his face out of a police album.

He was eventually cleared and both cases led to the Devlin Committee's investigation of identification evidence, which found that many witnesses overstated their ability to single out the right person.

News reports

But it is not just the thorny issue of recognising a face that confuses witnesses. Witnesses' recollection of every aspect of an incident can be contaminated by what they hear from other people.

Forensic psychologist Dr Fiona Gabbert has been working at Aberdeen University with Professor Amina Memon on the distortions in eyewitness recollection.

"Memories are very vulnerable to error. If you witness a crime and then read a local news report everything can be combined in your memory at a later date," she said.

Woman holding a gun
Eyewitnesses can focus on a gun to the exclusion of other events

"It can be hard to distinguish between what you saw, and another source of information.

"If there are two people witnessing a crime it is very likely that you are going to ask the person next to you or say 'I can't believe what just happened'."

In studies at the university, subjects were shown very slightly different versions of the same event, such as a crime filmed from different angles.

The subjects are allowed to talk and then a statement is taken as if they are talking to the police.

Dr Gabbert said 70% of participants reported witnessing at least one thing they could not possibly have seen themselves.

Easily influenced

Even when given a "source monitoring test", where the participants are asked to highlight what they saw and what might have come from other sources, 50% will report an item from their discussions with other people as their own.

"It is a true memory error - you are really thinking that you have seen it. It is horrifically scary," Dr Gabbert continued.

"There are criminal cases where witnesses identified the same innocent person. It goes to show your memory is so easily influenced. You discuss your memories with people every single day."


There is also a well-known effect called 'weapon focus' - if you are watching an event where someone is brandishing a gun you don't recall as much information
Andrew Roberts

Not just other witnesses, but leading questions from journalists or investigators can also have an influence.

Detectives are always keen to speak to witnesses before reporters are able to get to them, fearing that sensational aspects will filter into their recollections.

And even without the influence of other people, retaining an accurate recollection of a complex event is not easy.

Mr Roberts said stress was a major factor in distorted testimony.

"When you see a very violent episode you are likely to be under great stress that adversely affects your ability to recall events accurately.

"There is also a well-known effect called 'weapon focus'. If you are watching an event where someone is brandishing a gun you don't recall as much information - psychologists think naturally your focus is on the weapon."

In a rolling news society, the effect of the media is powerful.

"One of the most dangerous things about the [Stockwell] shooting is the amount of information that is in the public domain. Witnesses on the tube are likely to have seen other witness accounts, the official version and information that followed from the police," Mr Roberts said.

Stockwell station
A high-stress situation like the Stockwell shooting can confuse witnesses

"Where a witness is exposed to post-event information that tends to get assimilated into the memory."

Mr Roberts cited a study of Amsterdam residents who lived near the site of a 1992 plane crash that claimed 43 lives after a cargo jet smashed into an apartment block.

"The crash was never filmed. But quite a large proportion were adamant they had seen footage on TV and could recall images that were very graphic.

"They had got all this information from various sources but remembered it as an image they had seen on TV."

And setting aside all these factors, eyewitnesses can get things wrong because of interpretation.

Photo shop manager Christopher Wells, who said he saw the Stockwell victim vaulting a ticket barrier, has since conceded that he must have seen a plain clothes police officer.

[infinitetruth]

Andrew Roberts, a lecturer in law at Leeds University specialising in evidence, said courts have recognised for a long time that eyewitness identification evidence is "inherently unreliable".

So we should stop believing our own eyes? I think there is more to it than just an unreliable witness. Witnesses can be lead to say things they were not sure about in the first place. That doesn't mean they were unreliable but that the questioning was unreliable. Witnesses can see things which are assumed by the police to be something which later turns out to be false. That doesn't mean the witness was unreliable but the conclusion the police came to was unreliable.

Whatever happens we probably aren't going to know the full-story...ever.

[adramelech]

Wait, how exactly did a post about the counter-culture/controlled opposition nature of 9/11 Truth/Scholars turn into expounding and defending Christian dogma? Heh, stick with your original argument, it's a good one. After that you just descended into an old circular woo argument about everything being faith.

[tickles]

I think the problem lies with the so called "police witnesses".

Some people go to the police because they want to help but get so much pressure from the police to say what they want said and are intimidated by them that their original thoughts and memories become corrupted with out them realising till its to late. Months later when they try to recant their story and tell it how they wanted to in the first place they are harrassed by the police, threatend and told to keep quiet.

Next you have the prison witness. The witness who was a cell mate of the accused. He will say whatever is need/required to be said for early parole and even some cash.

Then you have the plant witness. They are the witness who is really MI5/MI6/CIA etc and they are there to plant the seed of thought. As with the Diana murder, the first witness said it was the paparazzi. That cover story helps give credibility to the person who says that they saw a very intense bright flash just before the car hit the column. The police can then say that it was a flash from a photographers bulb when in fact it was probably a flash from a strobe light fired from the fiat car in front (that just happens to disappear and not seen again) to blind the driver and cause them to swerve into the columns.

And the sheeple believe that the police wouln't lie to us now would they. Nooo, they are our friends. They are there to help us. WAKE UP PEOPLE!

[jayd]

I was looking into some of the clues left after 9-11, and these are numerous. So many countless "mistakes" that it is almost impossible to miss it. I could not help, but ask myself: "If this is really a cover up of the century, then why so many blatent mistakes?" These people posess the technology beyond our belief, and yet you think they would fake the plane crashes at Shanksville and the Pentagon? I don't think they are that stupid. If they did not want people to notice they would fly the real planes in like in the case of WTCs. They could easily do it, but they did not. Why?

Why leave so many clues for the thinking part of the population to pick up? They knew what they were doing from the get go.

1) Speculated on the airline shares. They could not possibly think people would not notice.
2) Explosives in the buildings went off hours before the collapse. Just a fluke? A hole in perfect plan?
3) GW sitting in the classroom and not moving for half an hour and then lying about the first plane crash on the TV. They could have moved and acted like they were supposed to and people would not have noticed.
4) Blatent absence of the plane debree in Pentagon and Shanksville crashes. Why make it so obvious? Even people on the scene knew... the investigators... telling that there was just a huge hole in the ground and nothing else.
5) WTC7 demolition. The most blatant one... why make it so obvious? They could have easily staged the fire and burned the evidence, if you think that was of any concern, but they pulled the building down and both major news stations announced it before the buildings fell. Why make a mistake of leaking information to the news networks?


These are just some of the few ones. So, either these people are stupid (which I doubt they are), or they are arrogant ( could be a possibility), but could there be much more to this at first glance? If I would try to deceive people, I would make sure that it would be all of the people and not just half or 75%.

It just dawned on me, but who is at the forefront of the 911 movement? Rosie and Charlie Sheen, need I say more? How does the Truth movement present the truth? Watching some of the people like Alex Jones and his likes, and I can't help but think... these people are psychos. What are they plan to accomplish by blasting those polotical pandits on the street? And these are the people who get the most following. It's 90% emotions and 10% reason. Some of those kids I have no clue what they are doing. They saw a documentary like Loose Change and think that they know the truth. They don't realize, that the truth is hidden behind 5 layers of deceit and everything is not that obvious. If it is obvious, then it is intentionally so.

So, let me get to the point... where I'm going with all of this. You can't look at the at the 9-11 as one dimentional event and say that you can pin point out the culprits. It is highly unlikely that people behind the scenes would let themselves to be seen. There are people in this world that even the most powerful ones will not go against. To whom the presidents bow down. What is the only real way to unite the world under one roof? When you ask yourself this question... you will slowly start to notice patterns emmerge. When you see the whole picture, you can't help by marvel by genious of it all, and can't help to be disgusted at the same time.

Have you ever been angry? Been scared? In love? Desperate? Impulsively greedy? Ever wish to take something back you did when in these states of mind? People tend to do most irrational things when they experience any of the above. The goal is to make you experience as many of these at once and for extended period of time... then channel your reaction into a proper venue to achieve the desired outcome. More than half of the people in the US are suffereing from some kind of mental instability... depression, "ADD", anger control problems, social anxiety. If you push all of these over what they emotionaly can handle, people will snap. Every one of us has a breaking point. You will do whatever is needed to save youself. It is a natural reaction of subcontious brain.

Now lets take a closer look at the resent events.

911 - sent people into a state of euforia , and still angers many every day because of the govenment's lies.

IRAQ - sent people deeper into euforia, and angers more and more people every day because of the blatant lies and atrocities transpiring.

News Agaencies - promote fear, depression, hopelesness, and intentioanlly try to piss people off... If you ever watched O'riely or Hannity, or Olberman for that matter... They don't report. Their objective seems to be pissing people of the opposite camp off. There are no rational debates anymore. People yelling and screaming, name calling. It is hillarious to watch. All of those "rational" people get caught into the trap all the time. It is called mind control for a reason. I don't have to change your mind about something. I can make you extremely angry. Come to dark side, Luke :) release your anger :)

Illegal Immigration - need I say more?

And now my favourite - world economy. My goodness, what a perfect set up! And all arriving just in time for the big show. The world debt is insolvent. USA - the "bastion" of world economy was set up to fall from the very beginning. I think even from the time the US was formed. Crashing the economy is the only way to unite the world under one roof, because it does not matter who you are and how honest you are... you still want to eat, and you are used to your basic luxuries that the system has to offer. Some of you have jobs, some of you own businesses and some of you would kill before you loose these. Ever asked yourself.... what would I do without those cheap wallmart goods? What would I do without department store or a supermarket? What would I do without NBA finals, the march madness or the superbowl? What would I do if the gasoline was $20 per gallon? What would I do if my house was taken for not being able to keep up with the mortgage? Loose my job with family to feed... Well, if you have not asked youself these questions ... you better get cracking. The iceberg is about to collide and the water is pretty cold overboard.

If you still not sure where I'm going with all of this. Described above are the actions. You are the reaction...the growing truth movement... and you will eventually, when it hit the fan, "you" will be fed a solution. The truth crumbs are being left in public's eye for a reason. My hope is that you would dig a little bit deeper and be rational. There's no reason scream you heads out on the streets. You are not going to accomplish anything that way. Engage in intelligent conversations with your friends and family. Ask the right questions. When you talking about something, make sure that you know what you are talking about and not simply repeating what David Icke or Alex Jones said. Screw Ickes and Joneses, research for yourself. You have everything they have... so don't make messiahs out of people. Verify the information, because much of it is bullshit even if it is comeing out of the most intelligent people. Masonry and Zionism are being framed as distruction for what you really should be looking at. Above all, be willing to loose everything and still be ok with it. All that crap accumulating in you house is really worthless. Don't sweat over it. Your life is the most expensive thing you've got.

Hope you find my rant interesting

WOW, THIS IS AMAZING, READ MY MIND

[mk72]

The truth movement that are falling apart, is very good timing - the idea is to get people focused on Bush and his cronies, if he leaves things are back to normal and everyone thinks it's a victory for the truth movement, while the same group of people still control everything. These events cancel each other out - what's left in people's minds is one big blank spot. Listen to this podcasts - he has a good point
http://www.breakfornews.com/audio/NextLevel061205.mp3

[cruise4]

When you ask yourself this question... you will slowly start to notice patterns emmerge. When you see the whole picture, you can't help by marvel by genious of it all, and can't help to be disgusted at the same time.
What patterns? What Whole Picture?

My hope is that you would dig a little bit deeper and be rational.

Dig a bit deeper... How and where?
Rational would have us still glued to our TV swallowing it all? What do you mean?

I have seen no-one treating AJ or DI as messiahs. I see posters referring to the subject as if they do though. Who treats these people as messiahs? They have interesting viewpoints and are actively engaged in finding out new information on a daily basis. Regarding AJ everything is bigger and louder in the US.... I don't reckon it means a thing. AJ entertains and informs. Everyone has some aspect that others find fault with.

Masonry and Zionism are being framed as distraction for what you really should be looking at.

Which is what?

Verify the information,

How? Stroll into the Whitehouse maybe?

because much of it is bullshit even if it is comeing out of the most intelligent people.

Of course we all know this.

Orgy of Evidence... I know what you are saying but its a big crime involving many. If you are going to tell a lie make it a big one and they have got away with it in the past. Maybe the internet has caught them out.