NEW CODE: “sustainable consumption”

[baron von lotsov]

According to Bilderburg this year the new word is

Quote

"Finally, get ready for a new phrase in the lexicon of realpolitik shortly to have its coming-out party - “sustainable consumption,” to define a more humane approach to global warming."

[baron von lotsov]

Now when I insert the code in the search engine something very odd happens.


"sustainable consumption" - Google Search

Lets look at the results shall we.


Number two= Sierra Club (look it up, it is an offshoot of the Club of Rome which is part of the Tavistock shit)

Then we have
gov.uk, gov.uk and so on.


Because it's the new code and guess which country climate change is coming from?

[baron von lotsov]

NEW CODE: TESCOS, OXFORD UNIVERSITY...

quote

31 January 2007
The supermarket chain Tesco is in talks with the University's Environmental Change Institute (ECI) about research into measuring the 'carbon footprint' of the items on the shelves. Tesco has agreed to work with ECI initially on a project to track the carbon footprint of a handful of staff working in an Oxfordshire store. The project, which starts this month, aims to find out how Tesco staff use energy at home, in their travel and at work in an effort to engage them and influence their behaviour.

A £5m project to create a Sustainable Consumption Institute (SCI) was recently outlined in speech by Tesco Chief Executive, Sir Terry Leahy. He said: 'Tesco will take the first step towards developing this Institute by commissioning work from the Environmental Change Institute at Oxford University, on identifying and overcoming the carbon pressure points in our own operations and supply chain.

[baron von lotsov]

Has anyone got the faintest idea what is going on here? Maybe the ones on the bleeding edge of conspiracy research might. So your chance to suss it out. It's easier than using a crystal ball and far better for you.

[montag]

From what I read on the Sierra Clubs website this is tied in with the UN's agenda 21 guiding us in to a post industrial era.. Depopulation basically, a smaller microchipped population living in human habitat areas, this is what agenda 21 is about anyway..

Other than that though I'm not sure what your getting at?

[baron von lotsov]

From what I read on the Sierra Clubs website this is tied in with the UN's agenda 21 guiding us in to a post industrial era.. Depopulation basically, a smaller microchipped population living in human habitat areas, this is what agenda 21 is about anyway..

Other than that though I'm not sure what your getting at?

That's interesting. I know the Agenda 21 from a long time back and you say it is the Sierra Club, hmm.

Anyway it is something to do with the 1001 Club which is the parent organisation for things like the Club of Rome. This link should explain it.

http://www.pehi.eu/organisations/1001_Club.htm

It's all high level stuff and connects to the royal family, so that's probably why you have not come across it.

[montag]

That's interesting. I know the Agenda 21 from a long time back and you say it is the Sierra Club, hmm.
The Seirra club quote agenda 21 on their site, I'm not sure if they have any connection with the UN, but they seem to be spouting the same philosophy..

For the first time in history, humanity must face the risk of unintentionally destroying the foundations of life on Earth. The global scientific consensus is that if the current levels of environmental deterioration continue, the delicate life-sustaining qualities of this planet will collapse.
-- Daniel Sitarz, editor, Agenda 21 (1994)

Thanks for the link, I'll have a read through it later..

[montag]

It's all high level stuff and connects to the royal family, so that's probably why you have not come across it.
Do you mean Prince Philip and the WWF?

[baron von lotsov]

Do you mean Prince Philip and the WWF?

Yes. That is where the eugenics and population reduction agenda comes from. The UN is just the public mouthpiece and you are right, they are very closely connected, as is Oxford University. It all makes sense knowing this shit. Watch in the news for this stupid new phrase, I expect it will be as common as global warming in no time.

[teslafire]

I had a "debate" with some "eco-conscious" folks today and let me tell you its worse than trying to talk about 9/11 while in NYC just a couple months after the attack.

You start questioning the green movement and you are the problem, not the solution. The general populous is being brainwashed to be okay with population reduction, and from their viewpoint its perfectly logical.

But you know what rarely comes up amongst us in these discussions is that it doesn't matter if they kill a load of us. There is no death anyways, the only thing to be wary about, IMO, is believing the 'sinner hype' in all its permutations (fall from eden, capitalist pig etc).

Fear of death is the lynchpin to control, I think, and this population reduction and green agenda will occur...my philosophy is akin to aikido. Bring on the "death", we can't stop the agenda on this plane, but we can remind other souls of their true nature so as not to be astrally harvested.

[montag]

Fear of death is the lynchpin to control, I think, and this population reduction and green agenda will occur...my philosophy is akin to aikido. Bring on the "death", we can't stop the agenda on this plane, but we can remind other souls of their true nature so as not to be astrally harvested.
Have you also noticed the rise in militant atheism? It's faith in a non existent God causing all of mankind's woes.

I have some friends who fall in to this category and believe that all we are is just a cancer on this planet, science now supplies them with all the answers to their questions just as a priest does to a fundamentalist.

It seems to be part of a dehumanizing process to prepare us to accept the coming changes, we are not to be trusted therefore we need to be constantly monitored and our behavior regulated to save us from ourselves.

[teslafire]

I dunno about God, to me its a moot point. My energy and self exist beyond this body. "Yahweh" is one way of subordinating that energy and so is atheism, they pick what ever manipulation suits them for whatevery stage they are in of the manipulation.

[montag]

I dunno about God, to me its a moot point. My energy and self exist beyond this body. "Yahweh" is one way of subordinating that energy and so is atheism, they pick what ever manipulation suits them for whatevery stage they are in of the manipulation.
Good point, it is really just another dialectic forcing people in to one camp or the other.

I heard Alan Watts once describe people in two categories, prickles and goo. The prickly people describe matter as particles where the goo people describe it as waves, the truth he said is neither prickles nor goo but rather gooey prickles and prickly goo..:o

[baron von lotsov]

Yeh, what ever, but the point of the thread is to wake some people up to the fact that the global warming shit is the agenda and maybe alert some people to who is behind it and how this shit evolves. Since you know the future because you studied this year's Bilderburg dictat you can now go around and spot the agents. Watch for the first companies to bring up the issue of 'sustainable consumption' and you will be right on the ball.

I just checked this year's Glastonbury Festival and Mr Eavis is acting like a little poodle doggie to the Tavistock as represented by Greenpiece and Oxfam. Oxfam (= Oxford famine) Why Oxford- look at their HQ in Oxford, it's not very poor!

Now back to the festival they are launching this thing where every victim has to wear an 'I count' bracelet. The number of victims will be recorded on the main Illuminati Pyramid stage. Is this all making sense now?

[john white]

I had a "debate" with some "eco-conscious" folks today and let me tell you its worse than trying to talk about 9/11 while in NYC just a couple months after the attack.

You start questioning the green movement and you are the problem, not the solution. The general populous is being brainwashed to be okay with population reduction, and from their viewpoint its perfectly logical.

But you know what rarely comes up amongst us in these discussions is that it doesn't matter if they kill a load of us. There is no death anyways, the only thing to be wary about, IMO, is believing the 'sinner hype' in all its permutations (fall from eden, capitalist pig etc).

Fear of death is the lynchpin to control, I think, and this population reduction and green agenda will occur...my philosophy is akin to aikido. Bring on the "death", we can't stop the agenda on this plane, but we can remind other souls of their true nature so as not to be astrally harvested.

Oh yes, i certainly have. the work-around approach I've been using is "you do realise that global warming is only one aspect of a far wider perspective, dont you? Then go into.. deforestation, desertification, extictions, pollutants, em interferance, obselete governmental forms, fictional monetary system, revolution in human consciousness as the answer, the question of the impact on mankinds carbon emmisions only a contributing factor even if we do accept solar rays are also warming the earth... etc

Its been working quite well...

[john white]

Have you also noticed the rise in militant atheism? It's faith in a non existent God causing all of mankind's woes.

I have some friends who fall in to this category and believe that all we are is just a cancer on this planet, science now supplies them with all the answers to their questions just as a priest does to a fundamentalist.

It seems to be part of a dehumanizing process to prepare us to accept the coming changes, we are not to be trusted therefore we need to be constantly monitored and our behavior regulated to save us from ourselves.

Oh yes, and its been very interesting conversationally when I engage them on other forums

IMO, its rise is linked to a increasing backstop defense of system programming

[john white]

Yeh, what ever, but the point of the thread is to wake some people up to the fact that the global warming shit is the agenda and maybe alert some people to who is behind it and how this shit evolves. Since you know the future because you studied this year's Bilderburg dictat you can now go around and spot the agents. Watch for the first companies to bring up the issue of 'sustainable consumption' and you will be right on the ball.

I just checked this year's Glastonbury Festival and Mr Eavis is acting like a little poodle doggie to the Tavistock as represented by Greenpiece and Oxfam. Oxfam (= Oxford famine) Why Oxford- look at their HQ in Oxford, it's not very poor!

Now back to the festival they are launching this thing where every victim has to wear an 'I count' bracelet. The number of victims will be recorded on the main Illuminati Pyramid stage. Is this all making sense now?

Your certainly right about all the connection Baron: the sense is what we make of it. the Q is: are the Elite faking the abuse of the planet: or spinning the abuse of the planet. Its certainly not a question of a simple duality, but rather of the overall vibrational harmony of manifest human consciousness

[teslafire]

Oh yes, i certainly have. the work-around approach I've been using is "you do realise that global warming is only one aspect of a far wider perspective, dont you? Then go into.. deforestation, desertification, extictions, pollutants, em interferance, obselete governmental forms, fictional monetary system, revolution in human consciousness as the answer, the question of the impact on mankinds carbon emmisions only a contributing factor even if we do accept solar rays are also warming the earth... etc

Its been working quite well...

Well, if you could be more specific then because all those topics are raised and the common answer I get from the hardcore academic greenies is depopulation as the catch all solution for all those problems. And there was a time, fairly recently, when I held the same beliefs. If you take their evidence as gospel you will want a more centralized government and you will want people to die...all in the name of species survival. It DOES make sense in the longrun...all the evils of civilization that you mention are simply part of the humanity's progress and growth and thus should be maintained - but on a sustainable level and more attention to the needs of the earth. The people managing this movement aren't tribal wannabees they are businessmen.

To them...a new green economy is the revolution of consciousness.

...don't shoot the messenger.

[baron von lotsov]

Right guys- anyone up for some teaching?

This should be fun.

http://www.sd-commission.org.uk/forum_public/index.php

Now there is a right way and a wrong way to go about this. Don't post stuff on aliens or the Illuminati but instead make out you are a bit naive and start to do some posts that look reasonable from their point of view on the surface but bring up some very tricky questions at the same time. Then in a reasonable manner you will find the group facilitator guide you into the bullshit. Know that this is what is a happening and keep asking more and more difficult questions until you have totally discredited the integrity of him. If you balls up you will simply be banned, so good luck if you want to have a go.

[john white]

Well, if you could be more specific then because all those topics are raised and the common answer I get from the hardcore academic greenies is depopulation as the catch all solution for all those problems. And there was a time, fairly recently, when I held the same beliefs. If you take their evidence as gospel you will want a more centralized government and you will want people to die...all in the name of species survival. It DOES make sense in the longrun...all the evils of civilization that you mention are simply part of the humanity's progress and growth and thus should be maintained - but on a sustainable level and more attention to the needs of the earth. The people managing this movement aren't tribal wannabees they are businessmen.

To them...a new green economy is the revolution of consciousness.

...don't shoot the messenger.

Wouldn’t dream of messenger shooting Teslafire: there's certainly no need

Apart from the obvious requirement of knowing the green material and doing the homework (which I'm sure you do), it seems to me a question of empathy: its important to understand why people might get sucked into "only depopulation can solve the worlds problems": having been there yourself, I'm sure you can provide your own insights

But, for what its worth, a key factor appears to be despair, and a fatalistic resignation at not seeing progress no matter how much campaigning, fundraising, self informing and caring has been done: and for many eco activists, that years, even decades

The reason for that lack of progress is of course an obvious one (hopefully, at least to some of us): focus on the wrong target: it is not people who are the problem, it is the mechanistic system that has perpetuated moronity and prevented meaningful change

I'm wary here that posters like the Baron will attempt to rush to "stitch up" the eco minded as closet Malthusians: that certainly is not the case in my experience. I've never met a bona-fide eco psychopath. But what I have met is plenty of people who don’t hold hope that mankind can change and avoid major catastrophe with major loss of life, even though they wish mankind could: and a small number who progress from there to "well maybe its better if we just got it over with". But then, I don’t know any bloodline elite, at least not that I'm particularly aware of

I have personally found it not too difficult to re-kindle that hope, chiefly by pointing out that recycling and eco awareness, carbon footprints and so on and helpful, but are only addressing symptoms: the answer lies in addressing the cause: IE Attack the system that produces so much meaningless crap every year, and transform society through developing awareness that it is our programmed desires that perpetuate it. No-ones had trouble understanding me so far, or minded that I hold the view that the CO2 case is not yet conclusively made

[baron von lotsov]

They are creating a green cult and out of the millions of victim followers some will be evil enough to carry out their plans of depopulation. Think Gaussian curve. How many does it take to do the kind of shit they are planning?

[john white]

They are creating a green cult and out of the millions of victim followers some will be evil enough to carry out their plans of depopulation. Think Gaussian curve. How many does it take to do the kind of shit they are planning?

So deforestation, desertification, ongoing mass extinction of species and 250 years of pollution since the industrial revolution is all just a front to find a few psycopaths, whilst the elites have been sitting on real WMD's capable of wiping out the majority of humanity for over 60 years and therefore more than capable of doing the job just by popping the top off a test tube or two?

Doesnt quite sit right somehow

[baron von lotsov]

So deforestation, desertification, ongoing mass extinction of species and 250 years of pollution since the industrial revolution is all just a front to find a few psycopaths, whilst the elites have been sitting on real WMD's capable of wiping out the majority of humanity for over 60 years and therefore more than capable of doing the job just by popping the top off a test tube or two?

Doesnt quite sit right somehow

If you can't even understand what I said there is no no point talking with you. When did I say it was 'just'?

[john white]

Hey Baron! Just feeding back the same amount of effort you've made to address my points from earlier in the thread...

What was your point anyway? "Dont trust environmentalists, they're unwitting pawns of evil: Becuase I say so!"?

Now, if you wanted to make the case that "all popular movements get infiltrated and turned to the Elites cause if possible", we would have the grounds to agree something: the difference in our views is, I suspect, that I hold that good causes are worth fighting for especially if the elite are trying to subvert them

Its kind of like a "raging clue"...

Where as your approach seems to be to write them off, which is the same, IMO ultimately, as doing the elites work for them

Perhaps you could explain to me why the destruction of the earths ecosystem is a good thing....

Becuase if it isnt, can you explain to me why people should not attempt to do something about it?

[baron von lotsov]

Hey Baron! Just feeding back the same amount of effort you've made to address my points from earlier in the thread...

What was your point anyway? "Dont trust environmentalists, they're unwitting pawns of evil: Becuase I say so!"?

Now, if you wanted to make the case that "all popular movements get infiltrated and turned to the Elites cause if possible", we would have the grounds to agree something: the difference in our views is, I suspect, that I hold that good causes are worth fighting for especially if the elite are trying to subvert them

Its kind of like a "raging clue"...

Where as your approach seems to be to write them off, which is the same, IMO ultimately, as doing the elites work for them

Perhaps you could explain to me why the destruction of the earths ecosystem is a good thing....

Becuase if it isnt, can you explain to me why people should not attempt to do something about it?

What a load of shit. Everything I ever say you twist and distort. I'm beginning to think you are part of the problem. Then when you say something from your own mind it's all a whole load of hippy dribble.

Sort yourself out. I can't debate with people who refuse to understand the other person.

[john white]

What a load of shit. Everything I ever say you twist and distort.

Well, you see, its called have an alternate point of view

I'm beginning to think you are part of the problem.

A fairly standard response to an alternate point of view

Then when you say something from your own mind it's all a whole load of hippy dribble.

Labeling is no excuse for failed comprehension

Sort yourself out. I can't debate with people who refuse to understand the other person.

LOL! Where's that mirror?....

I tell you what Baron:

Lets try again, shall we?

Perhaps you could explain to me why the destruction of the earths ecosystem is a good thing....

Becuase if it isnt, can you explain to me why people should not attempt to do something about it?

Seems a very straightforward question to me, and not "twisting and distorting everything you say"

Perhaps your trying to "twist and distort" your way out of addressing it?

[montag]

Has anybody seen this?

The secret plans to turn us all vegetarian

Secret plans to encourage the nation to give up eating meat are being examined by the Government.

A leaked e-mail expresses sympathy for the environmental benefits of a mass switch to a vegan diet - a strict form of vegetarianism which bans milk, dairy products and fish.

More.. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=458242&in_page_id=1770&ct=5)

[baron von lotsov]

Has anybody seen this?

The secret plans to turn us all vegetarian

Secret plans to encourage the nation to give up eating meat are being examined by the Government.

A leaked e-mail expresses sympathy for the environmental benefits of a mass switch to a vegan diet - a strict form of vegetarianism which bans milk, dairy products and fish.

More.. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=458242&in_page_id=1770&ct=5)

Yes I have seen it. Talk about social control. I wonder if they will be concerned at the global warming impacts of the Iraq war. All that fuel being used and the carbon footprint of a tank.

I mean anyone with an ounce of common sense will see what they are up to, it is our job to educate people. They just get lied to all the time these days.

[john white]

Perhaps you could explain to me why the destruction of the earths ecosystem is a good thing....

Becuase if it isnt, can you explain to me why people should not attempt to do something about it?

Seems a very straightforward question to me, and not "twisting and distorting everything you say"

Perhaps your trying to "twist and distort" your way out of addressing it?

?????

[baron von lotsov]

However when someone thinks to themselves, hey lets buy food locally and bollox to this idea of globalisation, which means unripe food from Spain, thereby putting the local farmer out of business and creating dependence we get this response.
http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/food/story/0,,2094796,00.html


The sheep lap it up.


Bah

[montag]

What about this? I've noticed they are really stepping up the programming and now Murdoch and Fox are aboard.

Rupert Murdoch joins climate crusade

When Rupert Murdoch, the cantankerous and conservative owner of Fox News, enthusiastically joins the fight against climate change, you know we're past the tipping point on the issue. Think landslide.

Last week, the media mogul pledged not only to make his News Corp. empire carbon neutral, but to persuade the hundreds of millions of people who watch his TV channels and read his newspapers to join the cause. Messages about climate change will be woven throughout News Corp.'s entertainment content, he said, from movies to books to TV sitcoms, and the issue will have an increasing presence in the company's news coverage, be it in the New York Post or on Hannity & Colmes. Yes, as Murdoch told Grist in an exclusive interview on his climate plan, even Fox News' right-wing firebrand Sean Hannity can be expected to come around on the issue.

More.. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18746241/)

Grist interview with Murdoch here.. (http://grist.org/news/maindish/2007/05/09/murdoch/)

[john white]

Has anybody seen this?

The secret plans to turn us all vegetarian

Secret plans to encourage the nation to give up eating meat are being examined by the Government.

A leaked e-mail expresses sympathy for the environmental benefits of a mass switch to a vegan diet - a strict form of vegetarianism which bans milk, dairy products and fish.

More.. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=458242&in_page_id=1770&ct=5)

I've seen it: overblown and hysterical, one of AJ's weaknesses he shares with the Daily Mail (like the "Pianka" incident last year). There's an army of civil servants constantly having to be busy doing something to justify there jobs, so its not too hard to find evidence of a "plan" to do just about everything. If "scheme to make everyone vegan" started coming from multiple sources, then I'd give it more weight

[teslafire]

Wouldn’t dream of messenger shooting Teslafire: there's certainly no need

Apart from the obvious requirement of knowing the green material and doing the homework (which I'm sure you do), it seems to me a question of empathy: its important to understand why people might get sucked into "only depopulation can solve the worlds problems": having been there yourself, I'm sure you can provide your own insights

But, for what its worth, a key factor appears to be despair, and a fatalistic resignation at not seeing progress no matter how much campaigning, fundraising, self informing and caring has been done: and for many eco activists, that years, even decades

The reason for that lack of progress is of course an obvious one (hopefully, at least to some of us): focus on the wrong target: it is not people who are the problem, it is the mechanistic system that has perpetuated moronity and prevented meaningful change

I'm wary here that posters like the Baron will attempt to rush to "stitch up" the eco minded as closet Malthusians: that certainly is not the case in my experience. I've never met a bona-fide eco psychopath. But what I have met is plenty of people who don’t hold hope that mankind can change and avoid major catastrophe with major loss of life, even though they wish mankind could: and a small number who progress from there to "well maybe its better if we just got it over with". But then, I don’t know any bloodline elite, at least not that I'm particularly aware of

I have personally found it not too difficult to re-kindle that hope, chiefly by pointing out that recycling and eco awareness, carbon footprints and so on and helpful, but are only addressing symptoms: the answer lies in addressing the cause: IE Attack the system that produces so much meaningless crap every year, and transform society through developing awareness that it is our programmed desires that perpetuate it. No-ones had trouble understanding me so far, or minded that I hold the view that the CO2 case is not yet conclusively made

That revolution is already planned. Even if CO2 is accepted to be only a contributing factor to earth changes (which it won't be on a mass level - you can thank Bono, Gore and crew for that), CO2 is certainly not helping nor is paper usage (enter the microchip).

If all you are worried about is humanity changing the way it lives and being more eco-friendly...you've nothing to worry about at all. The ruling powers are way ahead of you.

A new program is coming whether people like it or not, "gaia worship" is the good cop. My strategy is to invest my play money wisely on this plane, no amount of protest will deter this behemoth...its a genius plan really, better than bluebeam.

[baron von lotsov]

Ah but one good point is that the propaganda drive is turned up to number 11 (as in spinal tap) at the moment. What does this mean? It looks to me the lies just ain't sinking in. I mean every single day there is some shit in nearly every paper be it your local, a tabloid or the Financial Times. If it were so believable then this would not be necessary, not even the Iraq war was hyped to this extent. The have blown this one well and good.

[john white]

That revolution is already planned. Even if CO2 is accepted to be only a contributing factor to earth changes (which it won't be on a mass level - you can thank Bono, Gore and crew for that), CO2 is certainly not helping nor is paper usage (enter the microchip).

If all you are worried about is humanity changing the way it lives and being more eco-friendly...you've nothing to worry about at all. The ruling powers are way ahead of you.

A new program is coming whether people like it or not, "gaia worship" is the good cop. My strategy is to invest my play money wisely on this plane, no amount of protest will deter this behemoth...its a genius plan really, better than bluebeam.

I completely understand your POV there Teslafire, though I'm not buying it (whilst agreeing that various plans are well advanced)

The "elite" are simply trying to ride the tigers tail, same as they always have: thats they lesson they have to learn, and recent research has started to open an awareness in me that a significant proportion of "them" are desperate for "us" to save them from themselves. We are all "caught in the trap", and only a genuine rennaisance can alter that: by elevating our thinking to a level above that which originally created the problem

And yes, that means creating harmony to heal the "rift" of duality: anything and everything else will fail to stand. We either get on top of this (by getting on top of ourselves) or go back to scratch with another fall, back to pre-industrial society

Ah but one good point is that the propaganda drive is turned up to number 11 (as in spinal tap) at the moment. What does this mean? It looks to me the lies just ain't sinking in. I mean every single day there is some shit in nearly every paper be it your local, a tabloid or the Financial Times. If it were so believable then this would not be necessary, not even the Iraq war was hyped to this extent. The have blown this one well and good.

I completely agree with you there Baron, at least as far as the propoganda being consistantly rejected, if not the analysis of the true suituation

[teslafire]

With all due respect John, I don't think you've understood what I've said at all.

[john white]

With all due respect John, I don't think you've understood what I've said at all.

Perhaps its a "ditto" experiance? Though I just checked, and I do seem to have understood you

Lets focus on something else perhaps? What persuaded you away from the "lots of people are going to have to die" view?

[montag]

Ah but one good point is that the propaganda drive is turned up to number 11 (as in spinal tap) at the moment. What does this mean? It looks to me the lies just ain't sinking in. I mean every single day there is some shit in nearly every paper be it your local, a tabloid or the Financial Times. If it were so believable then this would not be necessary, not even the Iraq war was hyped to this extent. The have blown this one well and good.
You could be right, whilst at the same time throwing a huge smoke screen over the rising death toll due to the continued occupation in the mid east.. It's a cunning plan Baldrick lets hope it fails...

[montag]

Oh by the way I just realized everybody, Happy World Environment Day (http://www.unep.org/wed/2007/english/)!

[tru3]

The "elite" are simply trying to ride the tigers tail, same as they always have: thats they lesson they have to learn, and recent research has started to open an awareness in me that a significant proportion of "them" are desperate for "us" to save them from themselves. We are all "caught in the trap", and only a genuine rennaisance can alter that: by elevating our thinking to a level above that which originally created the problem

what's more basic, common sense and level headed than that? :confused:

[tru3]

The "elite" are simply trying to ride the tigers tail, same as they always have: thats they lesson they have to learn, and recent research has started to open an awareness in me that a significant proportion of "them" are desperate for "us" to save them from themselves. We are all "caught in the trap", and only a genuine rennaisance can alter that: by elevating our thinking to a level above that which originally created the problem

what's more common sense and level headed than that? :confused:

i call it basic sanity.

[lemonique]

Good thread guys thanks! Yea, cows farting is not the problem (sheep farting ditto). They have F'd things up with the Iraq war and this is a distraction.....
Cheers

[teslafire]

Perhaps its a "ditto" experiance? Though I just checked, and I do seem to have understood you

There will be no return to pre-industrial living and if that did happen, it'd be a victory for us, because that is most definitely not in the elite's goalchart. This is why I said what I said.

We are all "caught in the trap", and only a genuine rennaisance can alter that: by elevating our thinking to a level above that which originally created the problem

The trap is the individual, the nature of the human body is duality, incarnating on this plane is the problem in my opinion...that I'm sure will come off as morbid, but I find it incredibly uplifting.

What persuaded you away from the "lots of people are going to have to die" view?

Well, I know this will happen...it might be 2010, 2012, 2030, 2061, whatever the case it doesn't really make that much of a difference to me. What concerns me, and what I have compassion for, and the reason I still find a need to speak out against these elite bastards is what they plan to do with soul once it leaves the human cocoon.

It was only a few years ago that I was able to take stock of my NDE's amongst a variety of other "raging clues". Before then I was a system sucker who willfully edited out alternate realities in exchange for fashionable trends and "counterculture heroes".

[baron von lotsov]

Hey guys this forum is fascinating. You want to see what the experts think and what the government have to say, well lets start with the government stooge.

Quote

(he's called Harris by the way!)

In their report, 'The role of nuclear power in a low carbon economy', the SDC concludes that there is no justification for bringing forward a new nuclear programme at present.

Do you agree with our position on nuclear power? Have your say below.

http://www.sd-commission.org.uk/forum_public/index.php?tid=671&page=1


Then we have a load of born yesterday people (or sheep if you prefer) e.g.


"Hooray for the SDC! Finally, an independent report that clearly states the obvious reasons NOT to develop nuclear technology as an energy source."


"As a mother, I struggle with this - which is the lesser of two evils, climate change or nuclear waste. What kind of legacy do we want to leave our children? The evidence presented by the SDC does lead me to believe that tackling the climate change problem without nuclear is possible, and it's something that I believe we must do. "


And

"It's such a relief to read the sound advice given by the SDC. Of course nuclear can't fix it. It's time that the Government now really got to grips with tackling climate change."


And now for an expert opinion.

Quote

Over the last two winters, the South East of the UK has seen very little rainfall, with conditions approaching a drought. It has been possible to sustain normal industrial and domestic life because politicians and engineers invested in a water storage and distribution system in the last century.

City life would not be possible if we had to depend up the natural supply of rain and river water. In the same way, the sun cannot be relied upon to provide light, apart from the midsummer months. Modern life can function because engineers have developed systems to provide electric light. These lessons also apply when natural or renewable sources are proposed for the supply of electricity. They will never be controllable or predictable and will always have to be backed up by large-scale conventional plants.

As regards the use of small scale energy systems, many important factors are ignored in evaluating the problems. Until 80 years ago, the Uk had a very fragmented electricity generating system. the Weir report rationalised the whole industry and establised the model that all large industrial states have used. Large controllable plants reduce redundancy and waste.

The proliferation of small plants will cause unmanageable chaos in the grid control centres. If they use renewable sources there will be massive unpredictable disturbances to system frequency when the weather changes. If they use gas, they will aggravate the gas shortages and CO2 releases. Small plants also tend to have very short lives because of obsolescence and spares problems. They may need to be replaced 3 or 4 times in the 60 year life of a nuclear reactor. It is also very difficutl to monitor and control emissions from a multitude of small plants.

Much of the failure of the 2003 policy is attributable to excessive confidence being placed in some embryonic alternative technologies, whilst ignoring the advice of professional engineers who have worked in energy supply for decades.

You appear to be making the same mistake and risk massive social disruption from electriicty and gas shortages

Expert B Quote

This report is abysmal: biased, poorly argued and far from "independent". I shall briefly run through the five major disadvantages of Nuclear Power identified by the SDC:

1. Long Term Waste. This is largely a political as opposed to a technical problem, and the SDC has done nothing to help solve it! There is already waste to deal with. By the SDC's own figures, a new generation of power stations will add only a small percentage to the existing waste. By continuing with nuclear power we will obtain disproportionately greater benefit from new stations in waste management terms.

2. Cost. Paper 4 is heavy on paper but incredibly light on fact. 54 pages to say we don't know how much a nuclear power station will cost! In addition, the authors obviously have little idea of how the electricity market works in the UK and have not even attempted to estimate revenue. Do they not realise that the reason that "Peak" electricity is expensive is because of the huge cost of NON NUCLEAR generation? British energy are currently generating for £22.1/MWh, and achieving a margin of £15.5/MWh - I don't think any other form of generation will get anywhere near that!

3. Inflexibility. The report criticises "Centralised Distribution", and yet "renewable" sources will actually be even worse, as they will depend absolutely on a national grid to distribute the energy from the Hebrides or offshore windfarms or wherever, and as the generation will in most cases be miles from where the electricity is used, rather than provided where it is needed (London, the Midlands) the transmission losses will be even greater.

As far a microgeneration goes, have they read the Carbon Trust paper on micro-CHP? Not very impressive!

4. Undermining energy efficiency. All technologies compete, and the more succesful ones will "undermine" the less successful. From my perspective as someone who provides independent advice on how to reduce consumption, the problem is that some clients are fixated with dreams of renewable energy, and in some cases spend fortunes on windmills and solar water heating that would save only one tenth or less of the carbon (and cost) that a well considered package of energy saving measures could achieve for the same outlay. Why? In most cases because windmills get subsidies but proper energy SAVING technologies do not. "Renewables" can also give entirely the wrong message: people entering a building with a very conspicuous windmill on the roof will often think that the building is wind-powered and that there is therefore no need to bother with "saving it". They have no idea that the windmills only generate a tiny percentage of the building's electricity.

5. International security. Well, this may be a problem but why should we interfere with the internal affairs of other countries? I don't see France, Finland, Russia, India, China, Japan, Ukraine, Romania, Argentina, or indeed Iran worrying about this one, let alone the USA!

Aside from the five main headers, we have a real difficulty with one of the main planks of the SDC's route to a low carbon economy. Energy efficiency (my professional field) is getting nowhere, largely because of the lack of expertise. The NHS, for example, has a target imposed by the SofS of a 15% saving in primary energy consumption by 2010 compared to 1999/2000. Perhaps the SDC would like to find out how they are getting on with this target, but I suspect that the answer is not very well (based on numerous surveys).

I wonder if the SDC would sustain their views if they were actually responsible for "keeping the lights on"?

[baron von lotsov]

Some more info.

Jonathon Porritt: head of the above 'independent' commission and appointed by Blair.

Quote


What the children did not know was that the kind teacher who took them to the woods was also nursing a secret: not only had he attended Eton, he was also the son of the surgeon to King George VI and in line to inherit a baronetcy.

http://news.independent.co.uk/people/profiles/article325154.ece

[baron von lotsov]

Jonathon Porritt, RDA Board Member

Forum for the Future, Founder
HRH The Prince of Wales's Business and Environment Programme, Co-Director
Unilever Environment Group, Member
Carillion Sustainability Committee, Adviser (non-executive member)
Morley Fund Management SRI Advisory Committee, Member
Socialist Environment & Resources Association (SERA), Vice-President
UK Sustainable Development Commission, Chairman
Wessex Water Ltd, Non-Executive Director
Igloo SRI Advisory Committee, Chairman
Ashden Awards for Sustainable Energy, Trustee
BT Leadership Panel, Chairman
Sustainability South West, President


http://www.southwestrda.org.uk/about/board/interests.shtm

[teslafire]

Vatican to build solar panel roof

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6725109.stm

[baron von lotsov]

Have any of the sheep woken up yet?

Do you know what this means for you?

Have you ever tried living in the Middle Ages?

Want to do your washing with a pedal power washing machine?

http://www.humboldt.edu/~ccat/pedalpower/inventions/images/washer_demo250_not700.jpg

[baron von lotsov]

Quote

Pedal Power is an excellent source of energy. Pedal power can be applied to a wide range of jobs. Pedal Power is a simple, cheap, and convenient source of energy. With the human population at six billion and growing, pedal power can be incorporated in the lives of families living in third world countries to improve the quality of their lives while being friendly to the earth. Pedal Power is an appropriate technology for now and for the future. -


http://www.green-trust.org/2000/humanpower.htm

Spot the brainwashing.

"The earth is your best friend o green one"

[montag]

Reminds me of the movie Soylent Green where they had to take turns peddling on the exercise bike to power the light globe at night and you know how that movie ended.. :eek:

[baron von lotsov]

See how you can navigate through the conspiracy.

This Porrishit idiot is a member of the Socialist Environment & Resources Association.

Which is here http://www.sera.org.uk/

And lets look at what they are connected to.

Quote

Other Useful Sites
Energy Savings Trust
www.est.org.uk

Green Alliance
www.green-alliance.org.uk

Labour Housing Group
www.labourland.org

Labour Land Campaign
www.labourland.org

Low Carbon Vehicle Partnership
www.lowcvp.org.uk

Socialist Education Association
www.socialisteducation.org.uk

Socialist Health Association
www.sochealth.co.uk

Scientists for Labour
www.scientists-for-labour.org.uk

The Co-operative Party
www.party.coop

The Fabian Society
www.fabian-society.org.uk

Trade Union and Labour Party Liason Organisation
www.unionstogether.org.uk

Transport 2000
www.transport2000.org.uk


Ah at last the Fabian Society!

It's just a case of rooting these maggots out of the woodwork.

[baron von lotsov]

You can't get anything much more repugnant than Ed 'I'm not really a Bilderburger' no Balls.

Quote

Ed Balls, Fabian Society Vice-Chair and Economic Secretary to the Treasury, kicked off the major Fabian next decade lecture series by arguing that global change will make stronger European cooperation essential to tackle climate change, security and inequality.

[john white]

Have any of the sheep woken up yet?

Do you know what this means for you?

Have you ever tried living in the Middle Ages?

Want to do your washing with a pedal power washing machine?

http://www.humboldt.edu/~ccat/pedalpower/inventions/images/washer_demo250_not700.jpg

What does it mean to you? You believe you have a God given right to cheap electricity becuase you're Baron von Lotsov? Theres still a very considerable chunk of the worlds population that have never had electricity! Are you better then them?

I think you still have a great deal of waking up to do Baron: like waking up to the fact that if "sustainable consumption" is a code for "depopulation" (which sems to be the gereral pretext for your thread, or why the big deal?), the system is so thoroughly corrupt that all the institutions you still place faith in (like the left/right paradigm, and your narrow (laughable tbh) view that the NWO is "communist/socialist") are equally covers for these agendas... or that the lifestyle both you and I have enjoyed growing up in blighty has been based on one thing and one thing only: the exploitation of the majority of the world through violence, both economic, physical, political and doctrinal, the theft of the wealth of other lands by those means, and the subsequent reduction of the majority of human beings to grinding slavery. Communism and Capatalism equally did that, becuase they are fundamentally the same!

Which is going to do more about that? You having a new nuclear power station or shifting society to recognise the wisdom of not taking more than we can replace, thereby removing a sizable chunk of the excuse for this global exploitation?

The "third world" has already been living in the New World Order for many decades!

It seems to me you need to wake up to the concept of responsibility

[edelweiss pirate]

The NWO is well known to be communist...

They have a problem. You see they realise they've fucked things up a bit and they want to fix it all for us.

They want to get rid of the great evil of money which they know leads men to the very worst deeds the human soul is capable of...

They want to clean the planet up and create a more compassionate, cleaner and more co-operative world because they realise greed is not suistainable.

Sounds nice doesn't it. A nice vision. There is a problem of course, that problem is us. There are too many of us. They need to reduce our numbers.

So they'll try to set up a big ol nasty war to sort that out and then we get our lovely clean green new world order... on the cinders of our old civilisation...

[baron von lotsov]

Well said.

Incidentally they disguise the new Golden Age in a shade of green. Any likeness to this forum is purely coincidental you understand.

[john white]

The NWO is well known to be communist...

They have a problem. You see they realise they've fucked things up a bit and they want to fix it all for us.

They want to get rid of the great evil of money which they know leads men to the very worst deeds the human soul is capable of...

They want to clean the planet up and create a more compassionate, cleaner and more co-operative world because they realise greed is not suistainable.

Sounds nice doesn't it. A nice vision. There is a problem of course, that problem is us. There are too many of us. They need to reduce our numbers.

So they'll try to set up a big ol nasty war to sort that out and then we get our lovely clean green new world order... on the cinders of our old civilisation...

It is by people brought up with capitalist dogma... funnily enough, people brought up with communist dogma seem to see the exact opposite: December being a prime example! : It is both and it is neither: it is control, left hand, right hand , one will, one intent (one eye)

Baron uncovers the tip of the manipulation of one tentacle and thinks he's seen the beast!

I want to stress: I completely agree that environmentalism is being manipulated. I have no objective problem with nuclear power: or with electricity for all!

But denigrating environmentalism and seeking to reject all environmentalist argument because genuine heart felt concern is being exploited by the influence of the Illuminati is, frankly, retarded

As long as we see a viewpoint and identify with its "opposing" polarity: we are enslaved. FACT

The creation of Wars, in my view, is not primarily about controlling the numbers of humans: it is about controlling the mentality of humans. If killing a few million is the means to achieve that control of mentality, then the Elite, true, will not blink: but killing the slave force is NOT a means to an end in itself, and it seems to me to be mostly those with a rightist background, unwilling to examine their own beliefs past a certain point of comfort, who proselytise the doctrine that it is. The means of mega death have been around for over 60 years: the FACT that they have not been used to date shows, in my view, that the illuminati do not particularly wish to use them. They live here too , y'know?

[john white]

Well said.

Incidentally they disguise the new Golden Age in a shade of green. Any likeness to this forum is purely coincidental you understand.

So sean is illuminati becuase he chose green as the forum background is your latest inference Baron?

Either make a direct accusation or shut up, I suggest: snide insinuation is cowardly

[edelweiss pirate]

It's not capitalist dogma which has the highest death count you know..

The real dangerous ones are the marxist socialists... Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler... all socialists y'know..

The war would be here in a hot second if the Illumies had their way, however they are being held in check to some extent by certain spiritually powerful humans on this planet (of which we are part of this movement)...

The Illumies can't actually do what they want, they have to use us to co-create the reality they want.... when enough people resist their vision we will start creating our own world, or at least, perhaps be in a better position to renegotiate our basic concept of freedom on planet earth..

BTW Icke says much the same thing as Baron.... If Baron's info is flawed then so must be Icke's, but I think they've got it right.

[john white]

It's not capitalist dogma which has the highest death count you know..

The real dangerous ones are the marxist socialists... Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler... all socialists y'know..

The war would be here in a hot second if the Illumies had their way, however they are being held in check to some extent by certain spiritually powerful humans on this planet (of which we are part of this movement)...

The Illumies can't actually do what they want, they have to use us to co-create the reality they want.... when enough people resist their vision we will start creating our own world, or at least, perhaps be in a better position to renegotiate our basic concept of freedom on planet earth..

BTW Icke says much the same thing as Baron.... If Baron's info is flawed then so must be Icke's, but I think they've got it right.

I know the history of communism VERY well.. but evaluating death counts and going "hey! this illuminati designed system is mildly less murderous than that one!" doesnt seem desperatley useful to me. how do you quantify it? Deaths through War? Deaths through revolutionary pograms? Deaths from starvation? Deaths from preventable disease? Deaths from brutal lifestyles with poor social infrastructure? which hair, exactly, are we splitting here? Its ALL about squandering the potential of the majority of humanity. Besides which, Capatalism is just as Godless (reading between the lines of your focused objection): its simply more Huxlerian to communism's Orwellianism

As for Icke: he identifies the same source of manipulation as the Baron (and did it consididerably earlier), but he certainly doesnt draw the same conclusions about enviromentalism ONLY being a ploy to advance the illuminati agenda: loss of biodiversity alone is a real and serious threat to the ability of a six mile thick layer of gas to keep all of us alive! neither does Icke claim the agenda is 100% population reduction

[edelweiss pirate]

God John you sound like a Marxist apologist...

Communism's been around about a 100 years and they managed to kill more people than have ever been killed at any point in history....

How's 100 million for a death count? Not bad eh for a creed which claims at heart to improve the situation of the common man...

The Black Book of Communism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Laughable eh?

So if lovely fluffy Marxism can do that... what about a green agenda with a well known hidden Green agenda of population control..

Listen John, whatever shit they're selling will always STINK.

[john white]

God John you sound like a Marxist apologist...

Communism's been around about a 100 years and they managed to kill more people than have ever been killed at any point in history....

How's 100 million for a death count? Not bad eh for a creed which claims at heart to improve the situation of the common man...

Laughable eh?

So if lovely fluffy Marxism can do that... what about a green agenda with a well known hidden Green agenda of population control..

Listen John, whatever shit they're selling will always STINK.

Thats foolish, though I wont be insulted. I'm NOT a marxist apologist just becuase I can see that communism is not the be all and end all of the problem, only a manifestation of it. I can see I'm going to have to do some education around here. This money stuff the power of capatilism is based on... you do know its not real, dont you? Yet that fantasy has killed 38,000,000 from preventable starvation alone since 9/11!

[teslafire]

neither does Icke claim the agenda is 100% population reduction

At the highest levels its about spiritual worship to Gaia, the population reduction is just the sacrifice aspect.

Your friends and neighbors who are genuinely worried about the ice caps, the Amazon and all the rest of it are being emotionally manipulated via P-R-S.

I thought you would have seen this, its standard.

[december]

God John you sound like a Marxist apologist...

John White sounds like a typical Jew.




Communism's been around about a 100 years and they managed to kill more people than have ever been killed at any point in history....

How's 100 million for a death count? Not bad eh for a creed which claims at heart to improve the situation of the common man...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Book_of_Communism

Laughable eh?

So if lovely fluffy Marxism can do that... what about a green agenda with a well known hidden Green agenda of population control..

Listen John, whatever shit they're selling will always STINK.

Greatest murderers of modern times were Jews

"We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish".


Here's a particularly forlorn historical date: Almost 90 years ago, between the 19th and 20th of December 1917, in the midst of the Bolshevik revolution and civil war, Lenin signed a decree calling for the establishment of The All-Russian Extraordinary Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution and Sabotage, also known as Cheka.

Within a short period of time, Cheka became the largest and cruelest state security organization. Its organizational structure was changed every few years, as were its names: From Cheka to GPU, later to NKVD, and later to KGB.

We cannot know with certainty the number of deaths Cheka was responsible for in its various manifestations, but the number is surely at least 20 million, including victims of the forced collectivization, the hunger, large purges, expulsions, banishments, executions, and mass death at Gulags.

Whole population strata were eliminated: Independent farmers, ethnic minorities, members of the bourgeoisie, senior officers, intellectuals, artists, labor movement activists, "opposition members" who were defined completely randomly, and countless members of the Communist party itself.

In his new, highly praised book "The War of the World, "Historian Niall Ferguson writes that no revolution in the history of mankind devoured its children with the same unrestrained appetite as did the Soviet revolution. In his book on the Stalinist purges, Tel Aviv University's Dr. Igal Halfin writes that Stalinist violence was unique in that it was directed internally.

Lenin, Stalin, and their successors could not have carried out their deeds without wide-scale cooperation of disciplined "terror officials," cruel interrogators, snitches, executioners, guards, judges, perverts, and many bleeding hearts who were members of the progressive Western Left and were deceived by the Soviet regime of horror and even provided it with a kosher certificate.

All these things are well-known to some extent or another, even though the former Soviet Union's archives have not yet been fully opened to the public. But who knows about this? Within Russia itself, very few people have been brought to justice for their crimes in the NKVD's and KGB's service. The Russian public discourse today completely ignores the question of "How could it have happened to us?" As opposed to Eastern European nations, the Russians did not settle the score with their Stalinist past.

And us, the Jews?

An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name "Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU's deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin's collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people.

His Jewish deputies established and managed the Gulag system.

After Stalin no longer viewed him favorably, Yagoda was demoted and executed, and was replaced as chief hangman in 1936 by Yezhov, the "bloodthirsty dwarf."

Yezhov was not Jewish but was blessed with an active Jewish wife. In his Book "Stalin: Court of the Red Star", Jewish historian Sebag Montefiore writes that during the darkest period of terror, when the Communist killing machine worked in full force, Stalin was surrounded by beautiful, young Jewish women.

Stalin's close associates and loyalists included member of the Central Committee and Politburo Lazar Kaganovich. Montefiore characterizes him as the "first Stalinist" and adds that those starving to death in Ukraine, an unparalleled tragedy in the history of human kind aside from the Nazi horrors and Mao's terror in China, did not move Kaganovich.

Many Jews sold their soul to the devil of the Communist revolution and have blood on their hands for eternity. We'll mention just one more: Leonid Reichman, head of the NKVD's special department and the organization's chief interrogator, who was a particularly cruel sadist.

In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent of those holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of Jewish origin. They too, of course, were gradually eliminated in the next purges. In a fascinating lecture at a Tel Aviv University convention this week, Dr. Halfin described the waves of soviet terror as a "carnival of mass murder," "fantasy of purges", and "essianism of evil." Turns out that Jews too, when they become captivated by messianic ideology, can become great murderers, among the greatest known by modern history.

The Jews active in official communist terror apparatuses (In the Soviet Union and abroad) and who at times led them, did not do this, obviously, as Jews, but rather, as Stalinists, communists, and "Soviet people." Therefore, we find it easy to ignore their origin and "play dumb": What do we have to do with them? But let's not forget them. My own view is different. I find it unacceptable that a person will be considered a member of the Jewish people when he does great things, but not considered part of our people when he does amazingly despicable things.

Even if we deny it, we cannot escape the Jewishness of "our hangmen," who served the Red Terror with loyalty and dedication from its establishment. After all, others will always remind us of their origin.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0%2C7340%2CL-3342999%2C00.html

[danielg]

The only problem with communism was that it was run by people with capitalist mentalities. Capitalism v communism was fascism v red fascism, to use a willy reich quote.

[john white]

At the highest levels its about spiritual worship to Gaia, the population reduction is just the sacrifice aspect.

Your friends and neighbors who are genuinely worried about the ice caps, the Amazon and all the rest of it are being emotionally manipulated via P-R-S.

I thought you would have seen this, its standard.

Errr... why do you think I don't see it? I've made myself perfectly clear on this thread

At the same time, deforestation and desertification speaks for itself! Fewer trees and more desert = fewer trees and more desert, whatever the political paradigm (illusion) of the observer

If anything, the "depopulation agenda" (which I question as a primary motive) could be seen as a capatilist conspiracy to save its own ass, as it can't maintain its power with accelerating levels of consumption (the only way the western system can work, becuase of the demands of fiat currency for ever greater exploitation to service the "debt") with global population levels, as the planet cannot support that level of exploitative lifestyle, and would rather cull the slaves and keep control...

This thread is a great example of not finding solutions with the same thinking that created them...

[edelweiss pirate]

I can see I'm going to have to do some education around here. !


Sometimes you say clever and insightful things. That wasn't one of them though.

And December, my family are racially Jewish....

Can we still be friends December or will you send me to the Gulag...?

As far as I know Charlie Chaplin never killed millions of people, nor did Jerry Sienfeld, Alexi Sayle nor did my gran....

I think the problem is actually Jesuits. Pol Pol Hitler and Stalin were all Jesuits. That's quite a coincidence.

[december]

The only problem with communism was that it was run by people with capitalist mentalities. Capitalism v communism was fascism v red fascism, to use a willy reich quote.

WINSTON CHURCHILL ON JEWISH COMMUNISM IN EUROPE.

Video -
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.


Jewish Founders of International Communism for the One World Order

Marx, Adler, Eduard Bernstein,
Paul Singer, Beine, Borne


'To say nothing of Beine and Borne, Marx was of purest Jewish blood; Lassalle was a jew. Many of our best people are Jews. My friend Victor Adler, who is at present paying in prison for his devotion to the cause of the proletariat, Eduard Bernstein, editor of the London Sozial-Demokrat, Paul Singer, one or our best men in the Reichstag - people of whose friendship I am proud, are all Jews."


-- Quoted from Friedrich Engels, a Jewish person. -- Philip Mendes, THE NEW LEFT, THE JEWS AND THE VIETNAM WAR, 1965-1972, Lazare Press, North Caulfield, Victoria, Australia, p 9. Based on information in Wistrich, Robert. Socialism and the Jews. The Dilemmas of Assimilation in Germany and Austria-Hungary. Associated University Press. USA. 1982, pp 34-35.

[john white]

John White sounds like a typical Jew.



I'm just so glad I'm not lumbered with that sewer you call a mind...

You sound like a mind controlled robot to me, but hey, live and let live...

[john white]

Sometimes you say clever and insightful things. That wasn't one of them though.

I'll do some threads on Bernays, Strauss and Nash and you might change your view...

Any comment on the 38,000,000 deaths from capatilism since the turn of the millenium?

[teslafire]

This thread is a great example of not finding solutions with the same thinking that created them...

And from what I can glean through your posts, is that you advocate eco-conscious socialism. You're well within the box. :rolleyes:

[december]

Can we still be friends December or will you send me to the Gulag...?

But the Soviet Gulag prison camps have beed organized BY THE JEWS.
The head of all Gulag system was a Jew, and each camp was run by the Jews. It is all well documented.

Well, I asume you did NOT read the article...
Here's a quote:

Lenin, Stalin, and their successors could not have carried out their deeds without wide-scale cooperation of disciplined "terror officials," cruel interrogators, snitches, executioners, guards, judges, perverts, and many bleeding hearts who were members of the progressive Western Left and were deceived by the Soviet regime of horror and even provided it with a kosher certificate.

All these things are well-known to some extent or another, even though the former Soviet Union's archives have not yet been fully opened to the public. But who knows about this? Within Russia itself, very few people have been brought to justice for their crimes in the NKVD's and KGB's service. The Russian public discourse today completely ignores the question of "How could it have happened to us?" As opposed to Eastern European nations, the Russians did not settle the score with their Stalinist past.

And us, the Jews?

An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name "Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU's deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD(1). Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin's collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people.

As you can see the article was written by a Jew.

1. NKVD is the former name of the KGB.

[john white]

The only problem with communism was that it was run by people with capitalist mentalities. Capitalism v communism was fascism v red fascism, to use a willy reich quote.

Lets just say theres a reasonably large mind set in conspiracyville that equates darwinism with satanism, communism deriving from darwinism ergo communism defacto the work of the devil

I'm happy to call darwinism a sadly berifit half baked apology of a life perspective and leave it at that...

[john white]

And from what I can glean through your posts, is that you advocate eco-conscious socialism. You're well within the box. :rolleyes:

Yes Tesla, I critique capatalism so I must back socialism... (doh!)

Whose in a box?

I mean "I love you, whatever you do". It means to read this book and then say: I love you, Dr Kissinger. I love you David Rockefeller, (George W Bush) and (Gordon Brown). That kind of love. Without condition or possession. It is the love we have for our children. We don't always agree with what they do and say, but we love them just the same. If we can see each other in that light, the ills of this planet will fade away. With this unconditional love for self and each other, we would not produce economic arguments for why homeless people must sleep in the streets. The economic system would become subordinate to love and reflect that love. The idea that we would allow one person to be without adequate shelter would be unthinkable. We would stop charging interest on money, remove the debt so far accumulated, and spend what was necessary, interest free, to build enough good quality homes for people to live in. The love in our hearts would accept nothing less. We would dismantle the economic tyranny and encourage communities to take back the power over their lives, providing what is necessary for the benefit of people, not some Global Elite. Love would eliminate the pain and suffering we impose on the animal kingdom. We would recognise that the privileged minority on this planet cannot, with love, go on living off the backs of the Third World and then ease their conscience by putting a few pounds in a charity tin here and there. Love would insist that we withdraw from such economic dictatorship and allow those oppressed billions to live their lives for the benefit of themselves and not the multinational corporations. There would be no more CIA fascist coups to thwart elected governments determined to serve the needs of the people when love abounds in the collective human heart.

[december]

I'm just so glad I'm not lumbered with that sewer you call a mind...

You sound like a mind controlled robot to me, but hey, live and let live...

john white, as you may noticed - I prefer to discuss information and facts, and I always provide the sources of that information.

And you?
You wish to ignore the facts and you like to switch a conversation using the words like sewer you call a mind.

[edelweiss pirate]

I'll do some threads on Bernays, Strauss and Nash and you might change your view...

Any comment on the 38,000,000 deaths from capatilism since the turn of the millenium?

No because you're creating a false opposition. I don't have a case to defend and as far as I can see there is no argument.
The only point I'm trying to make is that it is my belief that the NWO will be seen as a compassionate alternative to capitalism (for the very reason you mention) where in reality it will be a devouring beast..

Many activists who were formerly marxist agitators have now moved into the green camp (this is common knowledge)... So for me the green movement is a trojan horse for the marxists... but this isn't news anyway...

[baron von lotsov]

It's not capitalist dogma which has the highest death count you know..

The real dangerous ones are the marxist socialists... Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler... all socialists y'know..



Have you seen this?

http://www.savethemales.ca/002026.html

Bormann was in charge of Hitler, a Soviet handler if you like. Not as if the Socialists of today would find such facts comfortable but heavy censorship has kept it hidden for all these years.

[john white]

john white, as you may noticed - I prefer to discuss information and facts, and I always provide the sources of that information.

And you?
You wish to ignore the facts and you like to switch a conversation using the words like sewer you call a mind.

LOL! I'd love you to link me a thread on any forum anywhere where you have ever discussed anything December, it certainly would be a sight to see... You post by dictat and if you can't say anything intelligent, resort immediately to racist or homophobic slurs... Jews and Gays don't run your life December, but your certainly terrified of them... becuase you are terrified of that part of yourself you believe they represent...

[edelweiss pirate]

In 1972 Gen. Reinhard Gehlen (head of Wehrmacht Soviet Intelligence) revealed that Bormann had been a Soviet spy, a view shared by many top Nazi generals and officials.
The implications are staggering. Remember what Winston Churchill said. "This war is not against Hitler or National Socialism but against the strength of the German people, which is to be smashed once and for all, regardless whether it is in the hands of Hitler or a Jesuit priest." (Emrys Hughes, Winston Churchill, His Career in War and Peace p. 145)

It is possible that the Nazi Party was created, and the Second World War staged in order to lead the German people into a diabolical trap, after fatally compromising them morally.

That is a pretty damn good analysis.... Good site thanks B. That final sentence is exactly what the game is about... Anyone who saw my matrix coder thread will remember that the game is sin and punishment....

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4041&highlight=Edelweiss+pirate

They (Illuminati) lead us into sin and then they punish us for the sin.....
Then we have a mini apocalypse.... weather a war, a plague or a terrorist attack...

[teslafire]

john, just so you know...its not a requisite to agree with everything Mr. Icke believes in when you post on this forum.

In fact, it'd be quite disturbing to try and impose that here and I'd imagine that David himself would be put off by it.

Back to the subject at hand though...what is the ideal and superior way that communism should be run, in your opinion?

Back to its roots with pure Marxism or have you one-upped him?

[john white]

No because you're creating a false opposition. I don't have a case to defend and as far as I can see there is no argument.
The only point I'm trying to make is that it is my belief that the NWO will be seen as a compassionate alternative to capitalism (for the very reason you mention) where in reality it will be a devouring beast..

Many activists who were formerly marxist agitators have now moved into the green camp (this is common knowledge)... So for me the green movement is a trojan horse for the marxists... but this isn't news anyway...

The word your looking for is infiltrated the "Green camp"... but its somewhat "marxist" thinking to then say "that means anyone who cares about the planet is working to destroy God"

And 38 million deaths from starvation arn't relevant, when arguing from a position of being against depopulation. OK!

[john white]

john, just so you know...its not a requisite to agree with everything Mr. Icke believes in when you post on this forum.

In fact, it'd be quite disturbing to try and impose that here and I'd imagine that David himself would be put off by it.

Back to the subject at hand though...what is the ideal and superior way that communism should be run, in your opinion?

Back to its roots with pure Marxism or have you one-upped him?

Did I say it was? Or did you assume I believed it was? Neither is quoting Icke something I'm not perfectly entitled to do on this forum

I'd rather you dealt with the subject at hand too: as in the absolute need for a Rennaisance in Consciousness to solve the problems of this planet without mass genocide: and if you have a better model for that Rennaisance than awakening to a true understanding of Love, I'd like to hear it: it is, after all, the unified message of every great teacher there's ever been

Gosh look! That answers how ALL political ideologies can be reformed as well!

[teslafire]

Did I say it was? Or did you assume I believed it was?

Educated guess, and prior experience with you. ;)

I'd rather you dealt with the subject at hand too: as in the absolute need for a Rennaisance in Consciousness to solve the problems of this planet without mass genocide: and if you have a better model for that Rennaisance than awakening to a true understanding of Love, I'd like to hear it: it is, after all, the unified message of every great teacher there's ever been

Gosh look! That answers how ALL political ideologies can be reformed as well!

I've already stated my views on this earlier in the thread, a post to which to you didn't reply.

:)

IMO, love and hate are aspects of an inescapable dualism to which you incarnate as an in-divi-dual. Belief in one or the other is fooling your spiritual self into the machinations of the material realm, i.e. the brain and its perceptions.

That's how deep I think it goes, and I believe this global warming bit was planned eons and eons ago...a return to eden was in sight with the creation of man, to use an allegory.

[december]

Have you seen this?

http://www.savethemales.ca/002026.html

Bormann was in charge of Hitler, a Soviet handler if you like. Not as if the Socialists of today would find such facts comfortable but heavy censorship has kept it hidden for all these years.

Martin Borman was rescued by the Soviet Army before the fall of Berlin in May 1945.
He died in Moscow in 1974.

[john white]

Educated guess, and prior experience with you. ;)

Thats seriously unworthy of you Tesla. I may have defended Icke against malicous attack on the old forum, but here I don't have to: in part, that is your job: But the charge that, in anyway, I expect people to uncritically accept anything Icke says has always been a base and pathetic excuse to escape debate: and YOU are still harrasing the chief culprit of that to this very day

I've already stated my views on this earlier in the thread, a post to which to you didn't reply.

:)

this one?

At the highest levels its about spiritual worship to Gaia, the population reduction is just the sacrifice aspect.

Your friends and neighbors who are genuinely worried about the ice caps, the Amazon and all the rest of it are being emotionally manipulated via P-R-S.

I thought you would have seen this, its standard.

Didnt really think the old pantheism chestnut was worth responding too: common sense is not defacto goddess worship: and the rest I dealt with

IMO, love and hate are aspects of an inescapable dualism to which you incarnate as an in-divi-dual. Belief in one or the other is fooling your spiritual self into the machinations of the material realm, i.e. the brain and its perceptions.

That's how deep I think it goes, and I believe this global warming bit was planned eons and eons ago...a return to eden was in sight with the creation of man, to use an allegory.

New thread needed for that lot IMO: for the sake of it, I'd outline my argument in advance as being highlighting the difference between emotional Love (with the duality of emotional hate) and divine love (that has no duality, only the joy of creation)

[teslafire]

But the charge that, in anyway, I expect people to uncritically accept anything Icke says has always been a base and pathetic excuse to escape debate

I didn't escape the debate, I took the idea in the quoted text head on.


this one?


No it was in response to your question about what made me change my position from that of the standard academic greenies' solution of depopulation.

[baron von lotsov]

Martin Borman was rescued by the Soviet Army before the fall of Berlin in May 1945.
He died in Moscow in 1974.

Yeh but check this out.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/87452.stm

You can always rely on the BBC to tow the line.

[december]

Yeh but check this out.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/87452.stm

You can always rely on the BBC to tow the line.

Thank you for the article, baron von lotsov.

Well...

It doesn't say a word about his possible escape to the Soviet Union, which even today is a very crazy idea of course, but back in 1972 this would create an explosion in people's minds....

Let's see what Henry Makow says in his article:

"In 1972 Gen. Reinhard Gehlen (head of Wehrmacht Soviet Intelligence) revealed that Bormann had been a Soviet spy, a view shared by many top Nazi generals and officials".

The BBC article was published in 1998:

A body unearthed on a Berlin building site in 1972 is Adolf Hitler's right-hand man, Martin Bormann, it has been reported.

So, right after Reinhard Gehlen revealed in 1972 that Bormann had been a Soviet spy, authorities discovered a body in Berin (not in the woods or in a village but IN BIG CITY OF BERLIN!).

And what was their thought?
- "Gee! This has to be Martin Borman!" :D

"An 83-year-old relative of Bormann supplied the samples for the DNA comparison". :)

Also... Keep in mind that in 1972 Berlin was under Soviet control.

Man...

Is the KGB good or what?

:)

[john white]

I didn't escape the debate, I took the idea in the quoted text head on.

I accept that tesla. I was talking more generally: your always a chap happy to debate and I do respect you for it. I hope you understand my confrontation as my doing what I felt I needed to, and dont take it personally

...it was in response to your question about what made me change my position from that of the standard academic greenies' solution of depopulation.

OK, lets go back and have a look at that...

What persuaded you away from the "lots of people are going to have to die" view?

Well, I know this will happen...it might be 2010, 2012, 2030, 2061, whatever the case it doesn't really make that much of a difference to me. What concerns me, and what I have compassion for, and the reason I still find a need to speak out against these elite bastards is what they plan to do with soul once it leaves the human cocoon.

It was only a few years ago that I was able to take stock of my NDE's amongst a variety of other "raging clues". Before then I was a system sucker who willfully edited out alternate realities in exchange for fashionable trends and "counterculture heroes".


So it's mostly a fatalistic acceptance, of what happens whilst in incarnation, and a deal of concern of what might happen afterwards?

None of us know whats going to happen next: even in the next microsecond: we can guess: and mostly correctly... but the way I look at these things is its best to take control of one's own thoughts in so much as possible. the potential for megadeath is always there as long as the ability to inflict it exists... which covers the imbalance between mankinds cleverness with technology and the course of wisdom with that cleverness... and the planet has always been somewhat capracious. Pehaps the Yellowstone Caldera might blow tommorow? Pole Shift next week? Asteroid smashing into the globe Who knows? But by using our minds to hold the possibility that humanity can solve its problems without carnage or mass starvation or depopulation adds to the potential in the world that those nightmare possibilities will not be what manifests

As far as rakshasa's/reptillians/demons/whatever feeding on souls, in my understanding such things can only happen to consciousness that believes it can happen: so awakening consciouness whilst within the body is the single best way to ensure consiousness is not ensnared in low vibrational interdimensional illusion afterwards: and in my experiance, that involves forging a relationship with the creator: which we do by finding it withinj us to Love "him": Love tunes us in

But of course thats only my POV: thanks for sharing yours!

[teslafire]

So it's mostly a fatalistic acceptance, of what happens whilst in incarnation, and a deal of concern of what might happen afterwards?

It just is, those adjectives most likely describe your interpretation of those events in this incarnation.

But you are right when you say I'm concerned over soul harvest.

None of us know whats going to happen next: even in the next microsecond: we can guess: and mostly correctly... but the way I look at these things is its best to take control of one's own thoughts in so much as possible.

Yes, its important to not get lost in the hype, and sometimes it can be hard, especially for younger folk.

Though I've found that I can contemplate uncomfortable things and still be protected from their leaving an unfiltered impression on my psyche.

the potential for megadeath is always there as long as the ability to inflict it exists... which covers the imbalance between mankinds cleverness with technology and the course of wisdom with that cleverness... and the planet has always been somewhat capracious. Pehaps the Yellowstone Caldera might blow tommorow? Pole Shift next week? Asteroid smashing into the globe Who knows? But by using our minds to hold the possibility that humanity can solve its problems without carnage or mass starvation or depopulation adds to the potential in the world that those nightmare possibilities will not be what manifests

The reason I'm skeptical is because the elite's timeline has gone unhindered for the better part of 10,000 years (most likely longer).

But I would love to eat my words in this instance.

As far as rakshasa's/reptillians/demons/whatever feeding on souls, in my understanding such things can only happen to consciousness that believes it can happen

People don't need to understand what's happening to them for them to be hijacked, but IMO they do have to betray themselves for it to happen.

...the philosophy of 'tabula rasa' and children's programming is a bitch, ain't it.

: so awakening consciouness whilst within the body is the single best way to ensure consiousness is not ensnared in low vibrational interdimensional illusion afterwards: and in my experiance, that involves forging a relationship with the creator: which we do by finding it withinj us to Love "him": Love tunes us in

Love is a loaded term and is the most manipulated emotion known to man. To me, the ideal I interpret from what you express is truly beyond language.

But of course thats only my POV: thanks for sharing yours!

And thank you for sharing too. :)

[john white]

Love is a loaded term and is the most manipulated emotion known to man. To me, the ideal I interpret from what you express is truly beyond language

It certainly is: it's harmony with the god force (and I've recently been having some intreguing impressions about electricity...). Its certainly not "Love" the conditional hormonal emotion... agape not eros, at the very least

And...

Though I've found that I can contemplate uncomfortable things and still be protected from their leaving an unfiltered impression on my psyche.

So true Tesla... we are all staring into the Void here: but if we know ourselves: we are protected from the void staring back and trying to tell US who we are