Eucharist in Mass is Sun Worship

[vorador]

i just had a thought that the eucharist used in catholicism and other denominations is meant to symbolize the sun, which is fitting since christianity is a sun-god religion. any thoughts?

[noobcybot]

That is an awesome photo Vorador. Kinda chilling aswell.

[simplify]

Not that I want to put something sinister into this, but have you guys noticed the strange white materialization between the 2 chalices. Or is their some logical explanation for it???????????

[zero1]

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff179/Eatrox/vampires.gif

Drink the blood of a God and break the habits of the body. Pure vampirism in the Eucharistic Mysteries...

[simplify]

I just had a thought in answer to my question above. Could it be smoke from the incense burner? Anyone?

[zero1]

I just had a thought in answer to my question above. Could it be smoke from the incense burner? Anyone?

That'd be it alright... :) The ephemeral/ethereal effect is not supernatural, but the stench is fucking awful.

[dlb2007]

on please the eucharist is not representational of anything, the ritual is symobllic yes, of the last supper and when the eucharist is raised as christ on the cross was raised... but not the actual eucharist. The Eucharist is what it is, the body, soul and divinity of Christ under the appearence of a wafer.

It is not representational, lets not put things into catholicism what is not there.

There is smoke from the incesnse, i really like the smell

[kasalt]

Along with the Eucharist, you can add the halo as a sun symbol. The following comes from a Roman Catholic website:

http://www.catholic-saints.info/images/saint-peter.jpg
A Catholic sign or icon, such as the Halo Christian Symbol, is an object, character, figure, or color used to represent abstract ideas or concepts - a picture that represents an idea. A religious icon, such as the Halo Christian Symbol, is an image or symbolic representation with sacred significance. The Halo is is symbolic of divinity and supreme power. The Halo Christian Symbol an indication of radiant light drawn around the head of a saint as illustrated in the above picture of St. Peter. A bright ring represented in painting as surrounding the heads of saints and the whole bodies of other holy persons. Also referred to as an aura, corona, gloriole, glory, aureole or nimbus. The halo conveys the concept of transcendence of the physical body.

The Halo and the Circle
The halo is also connected to the Circle as a Christian Symbol symbolises eternity as it has no beginning or end. Many early Christians believed that there was something divine in circles. Early Astronomy and astrology was connected to the divine by most medieval scholars, the circular shape of the sun, moon and the planets were related to God's act of Creation. The luminous circle, usually prismatically colored, round the sun or moon are connected with halos.
Source: http://www.catholic-saints.info/catholic-symbols/halo-christian-symbol.htm

And then there is this quote from Wikipedia's article on the halo:Round "solar discs" above the head are seen in depictions of many deities of Ancient Egypt, including Ra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Hathor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, and symbols resembling later halos, such as the Sun cross - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, are found in many ancient religions, especially in connection with Solar deity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_(religious_iconography)

[alfrmo]

Not that I want to put something sinister into this, but have you guys noticed the strange white materialization between the 2 chalices. Or is their some logical explanation for it???????????

Smoke from Hitler Youth torch?

[and justice for all]

Drink the blood of a God and break the habits of the body. Pure vampirism in the Eucharistic Mysteries...

True, and cannibalism too... “eating the body of...”. It goes all the way back to ritual sacrifice. Since they couldn’t get away with the real thing, they’ve replaced it with a symbolic, yet still very sinister one. The “lamb of ‘god’”, as in “sacrificial lamb” it’s kind of a give away...

[and justice for all]

smoke from hitler youth torch?

lol! :D

[simplify]

on please the eucharist is not representational of anything, the ritual is symobllic yes, of the last supper and when the eucharist is raised as christ on the cross was raised... but not the actual eucharist. The Eucharist is what it is, the body, soul and divinity of Christ under the appearence of a wafer.

It is not representational, lets not put things into catholicism what is not there.

There is smoke from the incesnse, i really like the smell

I never felt comfortable with the priest saying "this is my body, this is my blood" over the eucharist. A child has a hard time rationalizing these words, just before they receive communion. Even as an adult, I still don't understand why they say these words, even if the eucharist is a symbol?

[zero1]

I never felt comfortable with the priest saying "this is my body, this is my blood" over the eucharist. A child has a hard time rationalizing these words, just before they receive communion. Even as an adult, I still don't understand why they say these words, even if the eucharist is a symbol?

http://api.ning.com/files/vampire.jpg

Food for the gods/God.

[1977]

Christ is in the Eucharist because the Logos is in all things: "Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."

And, here's Michelangelo's Last Judgment:

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/4199/michelangelolastjudgmenqh8.jpg

Wikipedia dryly notes that the "figure of Christ himself, beardless and muscular, surrounded by light, which has often been compared to the Greek sun-god Apollo. One week before commissioning the work, Pope Clement VII is known to have been studying the new heliocentric cosmology of Copernicus. There seems a real possibility that the painting is in part as an allegory of the new cosmology, with Christ as the sun in the centre of the universe." Of course, we know that he didn't have to be studying Copernicus to paint it like that.

[measle_weasel]

Smoke from Hitler Youth torch?

LOL, thats histaricle :D

[armoured_amazon]

Ritual displeases me.

[dangermouse]

I never felt comfortable with the priest saying "this is my body, this is my blood" over the eucharist. A child has a hard time rationalizing these words, just before they receive communion. Even as an adult, I still don't understand why they say these words, even if the eucharist is a symbol?

yep always found that odd myself

[tejas]

Behold the Eleusian Mystery religions!!

[jesuitsdidit]

i just had a thought that the eucharist used in catholicism and other denominations is meant to symbolize the sun, which is fitting since christianity is a sun-god religion. any thoughts?

catholicism is not what it seems

VaticanAssassins - Eric Jon Phelps

[vladmir]

yep, i believe it is.
http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/monstr.htm
http://www.masters-table.org/pagan/sun1.htm

But then how could you be controlled, if you knew that you can just go out in the open, and directly have a communion with Gods Sun without needing any priest in between?

[vladmir]

http://i36.tinypic.com/r0o42f.gif
On the cover of the Jan/Feb 2000 edition of
Envoy Magazine,
a Catholic publication,
an elevated consecrated host of the Eucharist is
unmistakably depicted as a bright yellow sun disk against the background of a cloudy blue sky!

[vladmir]

Now, i find all this interesting,
because i myself have a deep affinity with thinking of our Sun As
indeed Gods Sun, the Light of the World.

[father ted]

That's the least evil face I've ever seen Nazinger pull. There must be something to this.

[father ted]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2108/2444601810_35830f6d03.jpg?v=0

[thirdwave]

Ritual displeases me.

Do you not think that it was true that Jesus asked his 12 merry men to eat bread as his body and drink wine as his blood in remembrance of him? .. what did he mean by this?

[bigus_dickus]

i just had a thought that the eucharist used in catholicism and other denominations is meant to symbolize the sun, which is fitting since christianity is a sun-god religion. any thoughts?

what does worshiping the sun mean? how does someone worship the sun and why would the sun need worshiping?

[thirdwave]

what does worshiping the sun mean? how does someone worship the sun and why would the sun need worshiping?


Why does religion worship anything?.. what's the point in it at all?

But the sun is what keeps planet earth alive, without it we would be dead and so would the planet... so for me it does not send alarm bells as to why people have worshipped it in the past.... As it is quite helpful.

also if you are coming from an astrological point of view then there could be many reasons as to why people may worship it as it could be the core of many planarity alignments and what they go on... If you are also to belive as many anciant groups have belived, that planets are alive, then If the sun was alive then it would again be a more logical thing to see as some kind of God....

not saying I worship the Sun as I don't see what value it would have, but it certainty has more logic to how it came about than worshipping a man who was sent by got to come and be slaughtered to death to save mans sins... or any of the other fairy tales...

[bigus_dickus]

Why does religion worship anything?.. what's the point in it at all?

i don't know. why?

what does Hinduism worship? what about Taoism?

But the sun is what keeps planet earth alive, without it we would be dead and so would the planet... so for me it does not send alarm bells as to why people have worshipped it in the past.... As it is quite helpful.

yes, but..

if there was no earth, the sun wouldn't make any difference. so they are equally important to us.

and the sun would not exist without another sun.

and had there been no moon, no life on earth would be possible. so why not the moon too?

also if you are coming from an astrological point of view then there could be many reasons as to why people may worship it as it could be the core of many planarity alignments and what they go on... If you are also to belive as many anciant groups have belived, that planets are alive, then If the sun was alive then it would again be a more logical thing to see as some kind of God....

yes, but christianity has nothing to do with those beliefs, in fact it is opposed to them.

not saying I worship the Sun as I don't see what value it would have, but it certainty has more logic to how it came about than worshipping a man who was sent by got to come and be slaughtered to death to save mans sins... or any of the other fairy tales...

Jesus has never asked anyone to worship him or serve him, or make sacrifices to him. to the contrary, he demonstrated humbleness by acting as a servant and washing his friends' feet.

[talkingchimp]

who fucking cares its all old hat bullshit. you wanna be spritual? feed someone hungry, or clothe someone naked.

[thirdwave]

i don't know. why?

what does Hinduism worship? what about Taoism?

that's my point.... I think any worship of a god does not come across as something beneficial to ones own spiritual journey.


yes, but..

if there was no earth, the sun wouldn't make any difference. so they are equally important to us.
Earth is not the only planet in our solar system... but there is only 1 sun, and if any of the other planets where to vanish. it would not make any difference to the sun... if the sun was to vanish, none of the planets would survive.

and the sun would not exist without another sun.
?? .. The sun is powered by others suns? ... first I have heard of that. And even if true... it still highlights the importance of "sun"

and had there been no moon, no life on earth would be possible. so why not the moon too?
Why ? .... again first I have heard that the moon made it possible for life on earth.



yes, but christianity has nothing to do with those beliefs, in fact it is opposed to them.


I think the point is, is that the hidden truth in these things are not based on what "Christianity" teaches, but something hidden that only a few know and understand, useing various pieces of truth and lies.... christianity is a trick where peoples spiritual urges and experiences are exploited and manipulated.


Jesus has never asked anyone to worship him or serve him, or make sacrifices to him. Well ok, But religions are based on the bible. and the bible very much injects these rituals and pratices out there...

Jesus has not said "worship me" .. but he claims that those who doubt him as the messiah will perish, and he also claims he is the light, and no one can get to the kingdom of heaven unless through him... if was really true, then i guess people should worship him... he also encouraged prayer and who we should prayer too.... so what do you imply this meant?

You do understand what manipulation means? .. hence if i want to trick you into doing something I will not do it so you know what's going on.... the idea to manipulate is to not say "Worship me" .. as that will not be a very potent method ... you do something a little more cunning than that.


to the contrary, he demonstrated humbleness by acting as a servant and washing his friends' feet.
Yes, the bible expresses many characteristics of the person who was meant to be our messiah.... he also made a Jewish women beg him to heel her son and called her a dog.... again i point out the manipulation.... its all well making out the messiah to be a foot washer..... and of course this is what it wants all his followers to be... its a shame it does not also teach them to be messiahs as well.

[thirdwave]

who fucking cares its all old hat bullshit. you wanna be spritual? feed someone hungry, or clothe someone naked.

is that not more in the "kind" or "thoughtful" bracket? rather than the spiritual bracket?.... you don't have to be kind or thoughtful to be spiritual... it should just make more sense being so.

[kasalt]

is that not more in the "kind" or "thoughtful" bracket? rather than the spiritual bracket?.... you don't have to be kind or thoughtful to be spiritual... it should just make more sense being so.

"Pure, unstained religion, according to God our Father, is to take care of orphans and widows when they suffer and to remain uncorrupted by this world" (New Testament, James 1:27).

[talkingchimp]

"Pure, unstained religion, according to God our Father, is to take care of orphans and widows when they suffer and to remain uncorrupted by this world" (New Testament, James 1:27).

the new testament is a fucking joke u twat

[kasalt]

the new testament is a fucking joke u twat

That particular quote isn't a joke, but thank you for your attempt at making and insightful, enlightening comment.

[thirdwave]

"Pure, unstained religion, according to God our Father, is to take care of orphans and widows when they suffer and to remain uncorrupted by this world" (New Testament, James 1:27).

Well thats all well and good, but does not mean that's the meaning of spirituality does it...

In fact I'm shocked a christian would have the cheek to accuse so many of Worshipping a being called Satan that is clearly is meant to operate through spirits and through attacking peoples souls... and yet these Satanists cant be tagged as spiritual..... if you cant interact with spirituality in a negative light then why is it so dangerous? ....

Also according to "god YOUR father" salvation only comes through him anyway.... not a preference of being... but submission to his presence.... feel free to show me where it states that you can be good and spiritual and still deny him as God.

for a start., If I had to have a god it would be a Goddess personally... just seems more logical

[cycles of time]

the blood and body of christ are referring to mushrooms and wine if u didnt kno better


for being conspiracy theorists, it seems as if most of your "theories" are based on fear and hate

http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/images1/jesus_shrooms_opt.jpg

[kasalt]

Well thats all well and good, but does not mean that's the meaning of spirituality does it...

All I know is that I found doing volunteer work at a food bank to be one of the most spiritual things I've ever done.

[bigus_dickus]

that's my point.... I think any worship of a god does not come across as something beneficial to ones own spiritual journey.

does any worship at all come across as something beneficial to ones own spiritual journey?

Earth is not the only planet in our solar system... but there is only 1 sun, and if any of the other planets where to vanish. it would not make any difference to the sun... if the sun was to vanish, none of the planets would survive.

earth is the only planet in the universe that we live on and the only world we have ever known.

?? .. The sun is powered by others suns? ... first I have heard of that. And even if true... it still highlights the importance of "sun"

the sun is a star like trillions of other stars that are even more massive than the sun. yes, the sun is not an autonomous entity that exists individually outside of its environment.

Why ? .... again first I have heard that the moon made it possible for life on earth.

because it is the one factor that brings stability to the earth's rotation and magnetics.

I think the point is, is that the hidden truth in these things are not based on what "Christianity" teaches, but something hidden that only a few know and understand, useing various pieces of truth and lies.... christianity is a trick where peoples spiritual urges and experiences are exploited and manipulated.

what are the "spiritual urges" you are talking about?

and what is the hidden truth you are talking about?

Well ok, But religions are based on the bible. and the bible very much injects these rituals and pratices out there...

the bible doesn't contain any rituals or any "magic" practice to be followed. these things exist, but not inside the bible.

Jesus has not said "worship me" .. but he claims that those who doubt him as the messiah will perish, and he also claims he is the light, and no one can get to the kingdom of heaven unless through him... if was really true, then i guess people should worship him... he also encouraged prayer and who we should prayer too.... so what do you imply this meant?

if he claims that whose who doubt him will perish, it doesn't mean anything to those who doubt him. that's because they doubt him, so for them, he is talking nonsense.

how do you get to the kingdom of heaven through Jesus? i mean, imagine you have Jesus standing in front of you, what do you do, you dive into his belly or something?

when he was asked about prayer, he said that if you want to pray, you have to direct it to "the father". there is no one else to pray to except "the father".

do you know what "the father" is? it's not the sun of course.

You do understand what manipulation means? .. hence if i want to trick you into doing something I will not do it so you know what's going on.... the idea to manipulate is to not say "Worship me" .. as that will not be a very potent method ... you do something a little more cunning than that.

like what?

Yes, the bible expresses many characteristics of the person who was meant to be our messiah.... he also made a Jewish women beg him to heel her son and called her a dog.... again i point out the manipulation.... its all well making out the messiah to be a foot washer..... and of course this is what it wants all his followers to be... its a shame it does not also teach them to be messiahs as well.

not a foot washer. a humble human being who has never took pride on himself, who never claimed to be any kind of king or authority to people's politics, who got misunderstood because of that because all people can think about is politics.

Jesus was not the messiah.

[bblaze]

The entire christian religion is based off of Sun worship. Peep this, the 12 disciples are no more than the 12 months of the year, which are the 12 signs of astrology. The son ws changed from the Sun (the light of this world). The sabbath was changed from saturday to Sunday to worship the sun god Baal. The word Lord itself means baal.

There are many other things I could talk about, the point is the original meaning of all the symbology used in the church came from sun worshipers, Especially from egypt. Egypt had the sun God Ra, they had Osiris, Ishtar which the word Easter comes from and where the book of Esther originated. These are all people that the church uses today they only changed the names up. Dont fall into the illusion that Jesus is coming back to save you. Only you can save yourself, its been 2000 years Jesus must have run into traffic from heaven to earth on the way. Not likely.

[thirdwave]

the blood and body of christ are referring to mushrooms and wine if u didnt kno better


for being conspiracy theorists, it seems as if most of your "theories" are based on fear and hate

http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/images1/jesus_shrooms_opt.jpg

i am referring to where the bible talks of Jesus braking he bread...

[thirdwave]

All I know is that I found doing volunteer work at a food bank to be one of the most spiritual things I've ever done.

maybe it was... but you could do a "satanic" ritual and summon the gates of Hell and that would still be spiritual.... not good but spiritual.

[thirdwave]

does any worship at all come across as something beneficial to ones own spiritual journey?

Well in terms of should we worship anything... we are all individuals and should we decide to worship something for our benefit then so be it... its when people are forced too.. or tricked into doing so that it is not of benefit... we all have different paths...


earth is the only planet in the universe that we live on and the only world we have ever known.
But we still know other planets exists and some of them contain the same as what earth does, and we also know they are effected by the sun... and how do you know earth is the only planet we live on?



the sun is a star like trillions of other stars that are even more massive than the sun. yes, the sun is not an autonomous entity that exists individually outside of its environment.
It is not a fact that stars are Suns for a start.... it is presumed. and even if they where and each of them strived off eachother then it still highlights the importance of Sun.... as certainly as far as this planet that you feel is the only one that is relevant to us... if you are right in that earth is the only planet we live on, then our Sun should be the only relevant Sun to us... and we are still left with the fact that is is our whole life force... regardless of where it gets its power.



because it is the one factor that brings stability to the earth's rotation and magnetics.

that does not mean it brings earth life... is simply means it effects earth conditions and seasons... again quite important and probably why the moon has not gone un-noticed either.



what are the "spiritual urges" you are talking about?
I cant answer of others... which is why I tagged it.... you don't think religious people or others interested in ickes work have had spiritual urges... or experiences they cant explain?... feelings.... so on... how else would a person have an experience that leads them to ask the question about Jesus Christ... or to brush it off??? ... this is what I am talking about.

and what is the hidden truth you are talking about?
check the title of the thread and that should be a good starting block.... research the bible and find out that the translation of God...should actually read GODS.... and keep researching and you will see what i mean... check out the astrological connections that also connect in smiler ways to many other religions.... so on..


the bible doesn't contain any rituals or any "magic" practice to be followed. these things exist, but not inside the bible.
Yes it does, more so in the FT, but also in the NT... look up the word "ritual" and read the bible again.


if he claims that whose who doubt him will perish, it doesn't mean anything to those who doubt him. that's because they doubt him, so for them, he is talking nonsense.

Well that's all well and good but if you are to determine what his message was then this is a relevant part of it and will surely be valid to those who don't doubt him.

are we now talking about why others should not dislike religion?, or just the fact that its corrupt?

how do you get to the kingdom of heaven through Jesus? i mean, imagine you have Jesus standing in front of you, what do you do, you dive into his belly or something?

Dont ask me, I did not right it..... the book is what has brought Jesus to people.... and that's what it says.

He was talking about no one can get to heaven unless they except that Jesus was the son of God sent to die for our sins.


when he was asked about prayer, he said that if you want to pray, you have to direct it to "the father". there is no one else to pray to except "the father".
and there you go, just another contradiction to get stuck into... what passage are you referring too?

As those words pretty much say that Jesus is not God.... another can or worms...

do you know what "the father" is? it's not the sun of course.

I know what the bible teaches the father to be yes.... and I dont belive it is what "the father" really is.


like what?
have a guess :rolleyes:



not a foot washer. a humble human being who has never took pride on himself, who never claimed to be any kind of king or authority to people's politics, who got misunderstood because of that because all people can think about is politics.

No, I disagree, there is a difference between being humble and being submissive.... people are made to feel guilty and submissive NOT Humble... and when one decides to look for the god inside him/her self they are made out to be greedy or selfish, which is of course bullshit.


Jesus was not the messiah.
No shit.

[kasalt]

maybe it was... but you could do a "satanic" ritual and summon the gates of Hell and that would still be spiritual.... not good but spiritual.
Pisaca worship is called "black arts" or "black magic." There are many men who practice this black art, and they think that it is spiritualism, but such activities are completely materialistic.
Source: http://vedabase.net/bg/9/25/en1

[jesuitsdidit]

what does worshiping the sun mean? how does someone worship the sun and why would the sun need worshiping?

worship is a form of dialogue which is communication which creates understanding which you would want of the thing without which life wd not exist..

[thirdwave]

Pisaca worship is called "black arts" or "black magic." There are many men who practice this black art, and they think that it is spiritualism, but such activities are completely materialistic.
Source: http://vedabase.net/bg/9/25/en1

Are you really trying to say that if I create a ritual where I begin to interact with (even though i dont believe in him, for arguments sake) Satan, it would not be a spiritual exercise?

or that If I was receiving channelled messages from Satan and I allowed him to have my soul and to work for him.... it would not be spiritual?

if so why not?

[jesuitsdidit]

"Pure, unstained religion, according to God our Father, is to take care of orphans and widows when they suffer and to remain uncorrupted by this world" (New Testament, James 1:27).

pure unstained disinfo agents turn the innocent away from the truth..

[jesuitsdidit]

the blood and body of christ are referring to mushrooms and wine if u didnt kno better


for being conspiracy theorists, it seems as if most of your "theories" are based on fear and hate

http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/images1/jesus_shrooms_opt.jpg

dont try and belittle us d a..

[armoured_amazon]

That's the least evil face I've ever seen Nazinger pull. There must be something to this.

rofl :D

[kasalt]

Are you really trying to say that if I create a ritual where I begin to interact with (even though i dont believe in him, for arguments sake) Satan, it would not be a spiritual exercise?

or that If I was receiving channelled messages from Satan and I allowed him to have my soul and to work for him.... it would not be spiritual?

if so why not?

Although demonology, satanism, black magic etc. masquerades under the guise of spiritualism, it is in fact completely materialistic, and it leads only to deeper bondage to gross material nature. As it is stated in the Bhagavad Gita:
"The transcendental qualities are conducive to liberation, whereas the demoniac qualities make for bondage."
Source: Bhagavad-gita 16.5

You may find the 16th chapter of Bhagavad Gita worth looking at. It is entitled "The Divine and Demoniac Natures". Here's a link:

http://vedabase.net/bg/16/

[kasalt]

pure unstained disinfo agents turn the innocent away from the truth..

Are you directing that comment at me? If so, feel free to blow my cover. I look forward to it.

[thirdwave]

"The transcendental qualities are conducive to liberation, whereas the demoniac qualities make for bondage."
Source: Bhagavad-gita 16.5

You may find the 16th chapter of Bhagavad Gita worth looking at. It is entitled "The Divine and Demoniac Natures". Here's a link:

http://vedabase.net/bg/16/

it does not matter if you imprison the spirit or free it... its still all spiritual... in order to allow another spirit to have control over yours you need to be spiritual.... you can also have a spirit take over yours with out being aware, or have a spirit help you and this would mean you are not a spiritual person.. although everyone is a spirit and go through spiritual situations even if they don't know it.. good, evil, or what ever...

saying someone is not spiritual to me means they are not aware of their spirit or another spirit or do not understand how theirs or others can interact...

being spiritual means you do understand you have a spirit and maybe understand how it can interact with others or with other things... Good or Evil does not come into it... that is simple an issue on ethics and intelligence.. or maybe fear..

in reality everything is spiritual.... just not much awareness of it.

[cycles of time]

dont try and belittle us d a..



:p

im surprised i wasnt called a zionist pig yet

[bigus_dickus]

Well in terms of should we worship anything... we are all individuals and should we decide to worship something for our benefit then so be it... its when people are forced too.. or tricked into doing so that it is not of benefit... we all have different paths...

people can't be forced to worship.

people can only be forced to pretend to worship.

because worship means love. i can't be forced to love anyone or anything, i either love or hate or i am indifferent and i don't care.

loving life, yourself, nature and existence itself is enough "worshiping God". God has never asked you to worship him, because your own self has never asked that from you. you can be thankful or not, you can be accepting or resisting, it's all up to the individual.

But we still know other planets exists and some of them contain the same as what earth does, and we also know they are effected by the sun... and how do you know earth is the only planet we live on?

that's irrelevant. we do have one planet and one world and all this exists in one universe.

how do we know? well, have you lived on another planet too? which one?

It is not a fact that stars are Suns for a start.... it is presumed. and even if they where and each of them strived off eachother then it still highlights the importance of Sun.... as certainly as far as this planet that you feel is the only one that is relevant to us... if you are right in that earth is the only planet we live on, then our Sun should be the only relevant Sun to us... and we are still left with the fact that is is our whole life force... regardless of where it gets its power.

the only importance that this star has with respect to us, is that it is the closest, so it gives its light and warmth to our world and thus it allows life to emerge. but that alone is not enough.

that does not mean it brings earth life... is simply means it effects earth conditions and seasons... again quite important and probably why the moon has not gone un-noticed either.

i didn't say it brings life. life is not brought from anywhere, life is what manifests. life can manifest as we know it, individual living beings, plants, insects, animals, humans, etc., but life can also manifest as we don't know it and that means invisible to us. so the other planets of our group may be full with life and all kinds of beings. but they are outside of our visible range, so it is impossible to detect and interact with them in the same way that we do here at our home.

these conditions, about how life manifests and what form it takes, are mainly influenced by the moon, because of many interesting facts about it that you may already know.

I cant answer of others... which is why I tagged it.... you don't think religious people or others interested in ickes work have had spiritual urges... or experiences they cant explain?... feelings.... so on... how else would a person have an experience that leads them to ask the question about Jesus Christ... or to brush it off??? ... this is what I am talking about.

something that you can't explain doesn't necessarily have to do with spirit. or when you are stressed or depressed and seek for a way out and turn to spirituality, this is not a spiritual urge either. the spirit is all about love, life, light, truth and existence. you already have all of the above. any urge that you have regarding those things, is because you have been drawn away from it and seek to get back.

check the title of the thread and that should be a good starting block.... research the bible and find out that the translation of God...should actually read GODS.... and keep researching and you will see what i mean... check out the astrological connections that also connect in smiler ways to many other religions.... so on..

it doesn't translate gods. i have studied the original texts and there is only one instance where god appears to be referring to himself in a plural form. in all the other instances, it is just god, a notion of ever presence, which means that god is existence itself (because existence has a self and it is the same with yours). thus it makes no difference if you say god or gods, but singular form is used so that it should not be confused with the pagan gods who were merely individuals with their own intentions and agendas and not existence itself in its own right.

Yes it does, more so in the FT, but also in the NT... look up the word "ritual" and read the bible again.

i have already done that. you should look up the word Liturgy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Well that's all well and good but if you are to determine what his message was then this is a relevant part of it and will surely be valid to those who don't doubt him.

and it doesn't matter. the others say that Jesus was a fraud and his followers don't believe them. so what?

are we now talking about why others should not dislike religion?, or just the fact that its corrupt?

there is nothing in this world that is not corrupt or that cannot be corrupted. if there is, show it to me and explain.

and please explain to me why and how would it be possible for religion not to get corrupted like everything else.

Dont ask me, I did not right it..... the book is what has brought Jesus to people.... and that's what it says.

you are the one who brought it up, so in case you don't understand it, everything you said about it is false and irrelevant.

if you believe that everything you said about it is not false or irrelevant, please explain what you really understand from this notion.

He was talking about no one can get to heaven unless they except that Jesus was the son of God sent to die for our sins.

LOL.. it would be nice if that was all it takes. no, he doesn't say that, that's too easy.

and there you go, just another contradiction to get stuck into... what passage are you referring too?

what contradiction?

i am referring to when the disciples asked Jesus about the right way of praying. these people were not Christians. understand that while Jesus was alive, there was no Christianity. but there was prayer.

so his disciples ask him, which is the right way to pray. Jesus has never claimed he was God. for who did he pray to? himself? and why did he call himself the son, if he was also the father? he can't be the son and the father at the same time. so Jesus is definitely not God, but he is regarded as the only human who was ever born of God by the Christians.

As those words pretty much say that Jesus is not God.... another can or worms...

of course Jesus is not the creator. no one claimed something like that, it's a misunderstanding that comes from misunderstanding the bible and from certain christian denominations who do regard Jesus as God the creator.

I know what the bible teaches the father to be yes.... and I dont belive it is what "the father" really is.

what do you believe?

No, I disagree, there is a difference between being humble and being submissive.... people are made to feel guilty and submissive NOT Humble... and when one decides to look for the god inside him/her self they are made out to be greedy or selfish, which is of course bullshit.

Jesus was not depicted feeling guilty and submissive, but humble and different from anyone. back then, people used to have servants to do the housework and even bathe them. the story is deliberately made to indicate this particular point.

[thirdwave]

people can't be forced to worship.

people can only be forced to pretend to worship.

because worship means love. i can't be forced to love anyone or anything, i either love or hate or i am indifferent and i don't care.

No, wrong... you can be made to worship.... not always for the right reasons but you can.... worship is not always brought around by Love, As it should, but it can be brought around by fear.... which although is a false reason to worship someone, it is effective.

loving life, yourself, nature and existence itself is enough
ok

"worshiping God". God has never asked you to worship him, because your own self has never asked that from you. you can be thankful or not, you can be accepting or resisting, it's all up to the individual.
But as I have allready pointed out, no one is talking about what the God has announced, if he announced such things then there would be no debate would there? ... it is about what is being manipulated.... for example..

When Jesus announced that you can only find heaven through him.... and so on... given then mentality of the people around that time, it was a hook line and sinker way to encourage worship.... and we don't even need to go into Islam which means "to submit"

If you are denying that in the bible it does not promote worship then you are very lost IMO.

that's irrelevant. we do have one planet and one world and all this exists in one universe.
Its not irrelevant at all... we don't know we have one planet and we don't know we have one world.... we know what world we are on and we know that 1 sun keeps it alive... and that is relevant to my point.

how do we know? well, have you lived on another planet too? which one?
No, I have not had the chance to go and look, which is why I dont know we are the only one.... when did you dart up there?


the only importance that this star has with respect to us, is that it is the closest, so it gives its light and warmth to our world and thus it allows life to emerge. but that alone is not enough.
No, you need to do more research on what the sun does.... if the sun was not there then life would no longer survive on the planet... not to mention very few living things would be able to survive the cold..... this is a fact, that sun that this planet revolves around, is the life force of the planet. FACT.



i didn't say it brings life. life is not brought from anywhere, life is what manifests. life can manifest as we know it, individual living beings, plants, insects, animals, humans, etc.
Yes and the Sun is an ingrediant to that life force, without it we would not have been able to manifest here.... it would have had to have been somewhere else.


but life can also manifest as we don't know it and that means invisible to us.

So you are open to other planets like earth then?

so the other planets of our group may be full with life and all kinds of beings. but they are outside of our visible range, so it is impossible to detect and interact with them in the same way that we do here at our home.
but all the planets that revolve around the sun are effected by the sun...


these conditions, about how life manifests and what form it takes, are mainly influenced by the moon, because of many interesting facts about it that you may already know.
Rubbish, the moon is not the earth's life force at all, the Sun is... do your research.... feel free to prove me wrong.


something that you can't explain doesn't necessarily have to do with spirit. or when you are stressed or depressed and seek for a way out and turn to spirituality, this is not a spiritual urge either. the spirit is all about love, life, light, truth and existence. Hu? .... you have not got a clue... the spirit just is.... its not got a charahcter.... it depends on the spirit on what energy it projects.... are you saying there are no evil spirits?

Everything is spiritual and if you feel you have had a spiritual expiance then you have..... just because you cant exaplain it it does not mean it does not involve your spirit because it does...everythin does.... the fact you are fefering to it shows its a part of it.

you already have all of the above. any urge that you have regarding those things, is because you have been drawn away from it and seek to get back.
LOL, get back to it? .. what you think we have all arrived at our spiritual destination? .... no, we all have a long way to go and will experience lots more enlightening things..... its not a place you pop off to to have a cup of tea every now and then... lol


it doesn't translate gods. i have studied the original texts and there is only one instance where god appears to be referring to himself in a plural form. in all the other instances, it is just god, a notion of ever presence, which means that god is existence itself (because existence has a self and it is the same with yours). thus it makes no difference if you say god or gods, but singular form is used so that it should not be confused with the pagan gods who were merely individuals with their own intentions and agendas and not existence itself in its own right.

well putting the fact that you are talking rubbish aside.... why does this "one instance" not count?





i have already done that. you should look up the word liturgy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liturgy).

I would but we are talking about rituals and how they are blatantly promoted in the bible... are you sure you have not come across anything in there, you have defo read it right.... are you sure you don't suspect what parts I am referring too?


and it doesn't matter. the others say that Jesus was a fraud and his followers don't believe them. so what?
Well you don't have to stress over it... no one has a gun to your head... but others think its a relevant flaw in history and in affairs today....


there is nothing in this world that is not corrupt or that cannot be corrupted. if there is, show it to me and explain.
Well I am not bold enough to make such a claim as I have not seen and met everyone in the world..... to make such an assumption would indicate I am slightly ignorant to some degree... or at least being caress about being so.

and please explain to me why and how would it be possible for religion not to get corrupted like everything else.
Well I obviously cant explain this as I think pretty much all of them are corrupted, that's kind of the point?....

But it is not just a case of what is corrupted... its what the corrupted powers are able to do... and a simple remedy is raising awareness to that corruption, in order for it to be less effective.





you are the one who brought it up, so in case you don't understand it, everything you said about it is false and irrelevant.
Just because I brought it up it does not mean Im the Author does it *scratching my head* ... I am pointing out the flaws... you appeared to be defending them even though you admit they are corrupt... so I would definitely be of the opinion that your views seem to be false and irrelevant.... and certainly have no substance other that to try and be right.... not doing a very good job at it I must add.

if you believe that everything you said about it is not false or irrelevant, please explain what you really understand from this notion.

if I said what??? .... The only thin I have expressed is how the story of Jesus is not a true story of a man kinds messiah and that the bible is full of occult symbology that is not understood by christians.... and that there is alot of texts in the bible aimed at manipulating followers into submissive states and controlling people.... I feel its relevant for people to look at this and for people in general to be less reliant on Religion.... certain many of the baseless accusations flying around the forum here are built up on religious faiths.. if they can get to work then why cant others get to work on the bible?

Now in order to clarify your question... tell me what you don't get about that and what you would like me to explain further, as I have no idea what you are asking me to clarify.


LOL.. it would be nice if that was all it takes. no, he doesn't say that, that's too easy.
oh no of course that's not all he asks.... there are many more things he asks as well.... but that piece was relevant to expose yet another fault in what you had previously said.

But he did say that.... which is why to this day christians believe that if you deny Jesus as the Holy spirit then you will not find your way to heaven.


what contradiction?

i am referring to when the disciples asked Jesus about the right way of praying. these people were not Christians. understand that while Jesus was alive, there was no Christianity. but there was prayer.
Of course not.... but understand that the only source we have to go on about when "Jesus was alive" is the bible... which was written about 50 years after his supposed death....

what contradiction??? ..lol bless.... You have clearly not read the bible,

so his disciples ask him, which is the right way to pray. Jesus has never claimed he was God. for who did he pray to? himself? and why did he call himself the son, if he was also the father? he can't be the son and the father at the same time. so Jesus is definitely not God, but he is regarded as the only human who was ever born of God by the Christians.

you sound as confused as the rest of them and you deny contradictions?.... how can he be the son of god.... what about the morning star? .... why if he is not god are people told they can only get to heaven through Jesus... and how to deny him is to deny the "holy spirit" ....

and I asked you for the passage?


of course Jesus is not the creator. no one claimed something like that, it's a misunderstanding that comes from misunderstanding the bible and from certain christian denominations who do regard Jesus as God the creator.

I know Jesus is not the creator... no shit.... He was the one God sent down to earth as sacrifice to be tortured to death on a tree for us.

So what do you think about Christianity and their faith......?
what is it you think they believe?, what the bible teaches?


what do you believe?
I have no belief in it at all.... I do not believe its what christians think it is, lets put it that way.... but Im sure you know... so teach me what "The father" is and how you come about to learn that :)



Jesus was not depicted feeling guilty and submissive, but humble and different from anyone. back then,

You fial to have realised that he was depicted as being many kinds of people.... as I have allready pointed out.... but if you so wish as to pick out the humble parts and ignore the rest then you are free to do so. And Im not talking about Jesus, I will repeat again that I am talking about the bible.


people used to have servants to do the housework and even bathe them. the story is deliberately made to indicate this particular point.
Well like I say just focus on the parts you would rather focus on...bu all means, But why expect others to be limit what they see.... just ignore all the bullshit and pay attention to his nice side?

example



Matthew
18:24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.

18:25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.

18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

18:27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

ahhh his servant begged him to not sell his life and so he let him off!!

shucks, what a guy!

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

Hi T-Wave:

The word Elohim is Morphologically Plural and requires the examination of the Contextual Grammar of its usage to determine whether its meaning is Plural or Singular.

Professor Michael Heiser delves into this in detail.


http://www.michaelsheiser.com/

http://www.michaelsheiser.com/FAQ.htm

http://www.michaelsheiser.com/FAQ.htm#q5

If the word "elohim" is plural how can it refer to the one God of Israel?

The Hebrew word elohim is morphologically plural (that is, it's "shaped" as a plural, or "spelled" as a plural). However, in roughly 2,200 cases (by far over 90% of the biblical occurrences), the word elohim is used as a proper name for the ONE God of Israel. We know this because it's a cold, hard fact from the text. In those 2,200 or so cases, elohim is the subject of a SINGULAR verb (all languages have subject-verb agreement) or is referred to by a SINGULAR pronoun (him, his). What this means is that, most of the time in the Hebrew Bible, although elohim has plural FORM, it's MEANING is singular. It all depends on the sentence in which it's found and the surrounding grammar and context. We have words like this in English. If I say "sheep", by itself you can't tell if I am referring to one sheep or more than one sheep. I need to put it in a sentence where the grammar tells you what is meant. "The sheep is lost" refers to ONE sheep since "is" = a singular verb form. "The sheep are lost" refers to more than one sheep because the verb form is plural. Click here for more. You can also visit my Sitchin site.

PDFs'

http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/What%20is%20an%20Elohim.pdf

http://www.logos.com/media/lecture/heiser/LectureSeries-Heiser.html

Alot of clarity may be found at this one site, enjoy. :)


Kind Regards

[bigus_dickus]

No, wrong... you can be made to worship.... not always for the right reasons but you can....

no i can't.

many have tried, but they didn't succeed ;)

worship is not always brought around by Love, As it should, but it can be brought around by fear.... which although is a false reason to worship someone, it is effective.

so who would you worship because of fear and why?

But as I have allready pointed out, no one is talking about what the God has announced, if he announced such things then there would be no debate would there? ... it is about what is being manipulated.... for example..

God has not announced anything and has never spoken with a voice.

When Jesus announced that you can only find heaven through him.... and so on... given then mentality of the people around that time, it was a hook line and sinker way to encourage worship.... and we don't even need to go into Islam which means "to submit"

no.

if you read the bible, you will see that the people think that it is about worship, but he makes it clear again and again that this is not what his teaching is about. also, in the bible, you often see his disciples and closest friends doubting him. if it was a manipulative document, there would be no doubt and need for explanations for these ideas. this even happens in the "apocryphal" gnostic gospels as well.

If you are denying that in the bible it does not promote worship then you are very lost IMO.

maybe instead of saying that i am lost, you can find exactly where and explain and we'll take it from there.

Its not irrelevant at all... we don't know we have one planet and we don't know we have one world.... we know what world we are on and we know that 1 sun keeps it alive... and that is relevant to my point.

so, how many do we have? in how many earths do you walk? tell me another planet that you have been on and what exists there.

No, I have not had the chance to go and look, which is why I dont know we are the only one.... when did you dart up there?

you don't understand what i said.

you have been on earth for all of your life. is that a wrong statement?

No, you need to do more research on what the sun does.... if the sun was not there then life would no longer survive on the planet... not to mention very few living things would be able to survive the cold..... this is a fact, that sun that this planet revolves around, is the life force of the planet. FACT.

there is a missing link on our communication. i am not going to talk about the sun any more, you just don't get it and i am not going to be your elementary school teacher for free.

So you are open to other planets like earth then?

i have no idea what you mean by that.

but all the planets that revolve around the sun are effected by the sun...

also by each other. so what? i was saying something else, your comment means that you didn't understand what i said.

Rubbish, the moon is not the earth's life force at all, the Sun is... do your research.... feel free to prove me wrong.

i did NOT say that the moon is earth's life force.

Hu? .... you have not got a clue... the spirit just is.... its not got a charahcter.... it depends on the spirit on what energy it projects.... are you saying there are no evil spirits?

you are confusing the "spirit" (the so called Holy Spirit) with the "spirits" and ghosts, therefore there is nothing more i can explain about that. i was talking about something else, you confused it.

Everything is spiritual and if you feel you have had a spiritual expiance then you have..... just because you cant exaplain it it does not mean it does not involve your spirit because it does...everythin does.... the fact you are fefering to it shows its a part of it.

what you said here makes no sense to me. it's not English and it reads like gibberish.

LOL, get back to it? .. what you think we have all arrived at our spiritual destination? .... no, we all have a long way to go and will experience lots more enlightening things..... its not a place you pop off to to have a cup of tea every now and then... lol

that's not what i said. there's no point engaging into a philosophical discussion with you, because you completely lack philosophical thinking.

well putting the fact that you are talking rubbish aside.... why does this "one instance" not count?

count what? i haven't said anything like that, your question has no answer. it seems that you didn't read anything that i wrote, you just called it "rubbish" and proceeded with an irrelevant question once again.

I would but we are talking about rituals and how they are blatantly promoted in the bible... are you sure you have not come across anything in there, you have defo read it right.... are you sure you don't suspect what parts I am referring too?

you can show me if you can.

Well I am not bold enough to make such a claim as I have not seen and met everyone in the world..... to make such an assumption would indicate I am slightly ignorant to some degree... or at least being caress about being so.

but you are so bold and ignorant enough to pick one thing that is corrupted and talk about this, like the fault is all upon it. for example, the idea of democracy got corrupted. does that mean that democracy is corrupted? what was it before it corrupted?

Well I obviously cant explain this as I think pretty much all of them are corrupted, that's kind of the point?....

But it is not just a case of what is corrupted... its what the corrupted powers are able to do... and a simple remedy is raising awareness to that corruption, in order for it to be less effective.

i am well aware of the corruption, but you ignore what is before the corruption, or who is responsible for the corruption. you hold responsible the religions themselves, as if they have their own selves to be responsible about. that's utterly stupid and indicative of humanity's false thinking all in all.

Just because I brought it up it does not mean Im the Author does it *scratching my head* ... I am pointing out the flaws... you appeared to be defending them even though you admit they are corrupt... so I would definitely be of the opinion that your views seem to be false and irrelevant.... and certainly have no substance other that to try and be right.... not doing a very good job at it I must add.

you are just talking about something you don't have a clue about, not even an opinion. or so you said. how can you point the flaws of something that you are not even willing to comprehend? you can't.

if I said what??? .... The only thin I have expressed is how the story of Jesus is not a true story of a man kinds messiah and that the bible is full of occult symbology that is not understood by christians.... and that there is alot of texts in the bible aimed at manipulating followers into submissive states and controlling people.... I feel its relevant for people to look at this and for people in general to be less reliant on Religion.... certain many of the baseless accusations flying around the forum here are built up on religious faiths.. if they can get to work then why cant others get to work on the bible?

the topic of this thread is whether eucharist is sun worship and not whether you like religion or not. i know that you don't like religion and i don't care and i didn't ask you if you like it or not, because that's not the topic.

Now in order to clarify your question... tell me what you don't get about that and what you would like me to explain further, as I have no idea what you are asking me to clarify.

i think i'll pass.

oh no of course that's not all he asks.... there are many more things he asks as well.... but that piece was relevant to expose yet another fault in what you had previously said.

what fault?

But he did say that.... which is why to this day christians believe that if you deny Jesus as the Holy spirit then you will not find your way to heaven.

i don't care what they believe, that's not my personal opinion and it is not the topic of the thread. you brought it up, you were clueless about it, you don't explain why you brought it up and what it is supposed to mean to you, so case closed. i already know that you hate christianity, reminding me over and over does not make me hate it too.

what contradiction??? ..lol bless.... You have clearly not read the bible,

right.

you don't explain, you just say that i have clearly not read the bible.

so enlighten me, you who have studied. lend me your wisdom, master.

you sound as confused as the rest of them and you deny contradictions?.... how can he be the son of god.... what about the morning star? .... why if he is not god are people told they can only get to heaven through Jesus... and how to deny him is to deny the "holy spirit" ....

and I asked you for the passage?

do you seriously want me to explain all that stuff to you? why?

i haven't read the bible as you said, so why don't you explain them to me.

and why don't you give me the passage, you who have studied the bible? what, you don't know which one it is?


in fact i have to go now and i don't have time for more. your post is driven by hate towards Christianity and although i am not trying to defend it or take its part, you respond like i am some kind of priest. you missed the whole point and went off topic again. that's the thirdwave we all know.

[thirdwave]

no i can't.

many have tried, but they didn't succeed ;)


Well thats good news, but I dont think everyone is made or as stern stuff as you :)


so who would you worship because of fear and why?


Hu? ... what sort of a question is that LOL.

I am not sure I have a prefrence lol, I would like to think I would not worship anyone through fear allthough have thankfully not been tested to the extreme...

But its quite common for people to adopt that "Worship" mentality when faced with someone that holds power over them... be it you Boss at work... how many people grovel and ass kiss their boss? .. why?, because they love them? ..no, because they fear the consequences of falling out of favour with him/her... and understand the advantages of kissing their arse....

likewise the Royal Family... you think people worshipped them because of love? .. or because those seen to question the monarch where tortured and killed?

Do you really not understand that concept?... you claim to know quite allot of others things that require a little more understand than this.


God has not announced anything and has never spoken with a voice.

Again, No shit!... Do you understand that I do not believe the God to be real? lol, I am talking about the bible, not about what I believe.



no.

if you read the bible, you will see that the people think that it is about worship, but he makes it clear again and again that this is not what his teaching is about.

Well feel free to provide me with these passages!

also, in the bible, you often see his disciples and closest friends doubting him. if it was a manipulative document, there would be no doubt and need for explanations for these ideas. this even happens in the "apocryphal" gnostic gospels as well. Why would there be no doubt? ... I think you need to look up the word Manipulation.... and what symptoms can be seen within it.


maybe instead of saying that i am lost, you can find exactly where and explain and we'll take it from there.

Well it would be an awful long thread for me to post it all here but good idea.. here is a select few for you to get stuck into, then we can take it from there..


Exodus
20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.


Exodus
23:32 Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods.
23:33 They shall not dwell in thy land, lest they make thee sin against me: for if thou serve their gods, it will surely be a snare unto thee.

Philippians
2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


Revelation
3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


Let me know If you would like me to post some more as that was just a quick one..


so, how many do we have? in how many earths do you walk? tell me another planet that you have been on and what exists there.
No, YOU are the one that claimed they do not exsist, s YOU are the one who need to prove such a fact... I have simply said that we DO NOT KNOW... which is TRUE, are you really incapable of fathoming that?????

I have only been to 1 planet... earth.... only thing I have known and I take it you are the same.. so how is it you seem to know its the only one?? Please tell me as It would be an amazing discovery! LOL


you don't understand what i said.

you have been on earth for all of your life. is that a wrong statement?
Yes, as have you.... and this goes back to my first point on why people in the past have viewed the sun as such a Godly presence... because this planet is all they know and the sun is what keeps it alive...

why you went on about other planets I don't know ..lol, we do not know what else is out there, we can only guess.... what we do know is what's on earth and how the Sun helps it.... lol, kind of went around in a big circle there!


there is a missing link on our communication. i am not going to talk about the sun any more, you just don't get it and i am not going to be your elementary school teacher for free.

ahhh I am meant to pay you for this hog wash you are spewing out!!? ... LOL!! classic!

you dont want to talk about the Sun? even though that was the point of our conversation ??

Shall we not talk about the bible either now and somehow just talk about how vital the moon is? lol


i have no idea what you mean by that.

Ok ....

you said

Quote:
i didn't say it brings life. life is not brought from anywhere, life is what manifests. life can manifest as we know it, individual living beings, plants, insects, animals, humans, etc.

Quote:
but life can also manifest as we don't know it and that means invisible to us.

So I said you must be open to the fact that humans are likely to be out there on a planet just like earth even though we cant see it...

and with that we have no idea if anyone from this planet has been their a visa versa.... or do you know???

clearer?


also by each other. so what? i was saying something else, your comment means that you didn't understand what i said.

why were you saying something else, where you trying to change the subject??

I thought you were trying to tell me that there is no reason for people in the past to have seen it as an icon of worship... I asm telling you that the solor system would not exists with out it, hence why the planets revolve around the sun....

feel free to clarify your self or at least make it clear you wish to change the subject... you need to work on your communication skills before you can start charging to teach.



i did NOT say that the moon is earth's life force.

thats right, you said

"these conditions, about how life manifests and what form it takes, are mainly influenced by the moon, because of many interesting facts about it that you may already know."

So I will amend my comment here

Third Wave says
"Rubbish, the moon is not the main influence on how life manifests and what form it takes... do your research.... feel free to prove me wrong."

ok?


you are confusing the "spirit" (the so called Holy Spirit) with the "spirits" and ghosts, therefore there is nothing more i can explain about that. i was talking about something else, you confused it.

Im not confusing anything I am going by what your post stated here


"something that you can't explain doesn't necessarily have to do with spirit. or when you are stressed or depressed and seek for a way out and turn to spirituality, this is not a spiritual urge either. the spirit is all about love, life, light, truth and existence."

if you had said "The Holy Spirit" other than "Spirit" then maybe you would have made your self clearer... again communication issues.... no 20p for you!

and my point still stands.


what you said here makes no sense to me. it's not English and it reads like gibberish.

That does not really shock me...


that's not what i said. there's no point engaging into a philosophical discussion with you, because you completely lack philosophical thinking.

I would agree there is no point as I am not one to swallow shit, in case you have not noticed.


count what? i haven't said anything like that, your question has no answer. it seems that you didn't read anything that i wrote, you just called it "rubbish" and proceeded with an irrelevant question once again.

My word, are you drunk of something?.. are you going to make me remind you what bloody conversation you are in all the time??

*sign*

here was what you said

"it doesn't translate gods. i have studied the original texts and there is only one instance where god appears to be referring to himself in a plural form. in all the other instances, it is just god, a notion of ever presence, which means that god is existence itself (because existence has a self and it is the same with yours). thus it makes no difference if you say god or gods, but singular form is used so that it should not be confused with the pagan gods who were merely individuals with their own intentions and agendas and not existence itself in its own right."


Now, I simply stated that I thought your translations where inaccurate, and then I pointed out that why is the one instance not relevant... hence your "it doesn't translate gods" ....

clearer?

Im not going to show you what you have been saying again...:rolleyes:


you can show me if you can.

Sure.

Leviticus
1:1 And the LORD called unto Moses, and spake unto him out of the tabernacle of the congregation, saying,
1:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto the LORD, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle, even of the herd, and of the flock.
1:3 If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.
1:4 And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering; and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him.
1:5 And he shall kill the bullock before the LORD: and the priests, Aaron's sons, shall bring the blood, and sprinkle the blood round about upon the altar that is by the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
1:6 And he shall flay the burnt offering, and cut it into his pieces.
1:7 And the sons of Aaron the priest shall put fire upon the altar, and lay the wood in order upon the fire:
1:8 And the priests, Aaron's sons, shall lay the parts, the head, and the fat, in order upon the wood that is on the fire which is upon the altar:
1:9 But his inwards and his legs shall he wash in water: and the priest shall burn all on the altar, to be a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of "a sweet savour unto the LORD".



but you are so bold and ignorant enough to pick one thing that is corrupted and talk about this, like the fault is all upon it. for example, the idea of democracy got corrupted. does that mean that democracy is corrupted? what was it before it corrupted?


No, for a start Im not talking about "one thing" Im talking about lots and lots of things.

I am making my point very clear .. but for some reason you appear to be saying that because the religion is known to be corrupted or that you seem to only think only a little bit has, then we should not worry about it or address it.. even though our civilisation and pretty much the word has been ruled from such insinuations that up hold these very books.

THIS is what is where I wish to be bold to speak out upon... I still have no idea what point you are trying to make other than promote apathy.

i am well aware of the corruption, but you ignore what is before the corruption, or who is responsible for the corruption. you hold responsible the religions themselves, as if they have their own selves to be responsible about. that's utterly stupid and indicative of humanity's false thinking all in all.

Utter rubbish... feel free to forward me the pre corupt bible... and let me know where you magaged to find a disinfected copy??

lets see it!..

its YOUR CHOICE to assume that there was a pure source prior to it but with NO EVIDENCE.. we only have the book!... So what makes you think you can have a problem with me addressing this?

People are free to view it as they wish!, As am I.... Is my lack of faith a problem ?



you are just talking about something you don't have a clue about, not even an opinion. or so you said. how can you point the flaws of something that you are not even willing to comprehend? you can't.
I think its very clear I do know what Im talking about and its even more clear that you dont even know what you want to be talking about let alone what you are....

the topic of this thread is whether eucharist is sun worship and not whether you like religion or not. i know that you don't like religion and i don't care and i didn't ask you if you like it or not, because that's not the topic.


Well your the one who "doesnt want to talk about the sun" as you have previously said...

So now you have managed to drag my original point around in huge circle.. we are back to the fact that this planet and everything on it relys on the Sun to live... hence why Sun worship may have surfaced on the planet at various times ;)


what fault?
No, you work it out this time.



i don't care what they believe, that's not my personal opinion and it is not the topic of the thread. you brought it up, you were clueless about it, you don't explain why you brought it up and what it is supposed to mean to you, so case closed. i already know that you hate christianity, reminding me over and over does not make me hate it too.

your the one who twisted the convo dude... go back and read... I am on about my comment on how Sun worship may have been important your the one who went on about other planets... and try to kick the convo out of touch rather than just admit you were talking poo.

right.

you don't explain, you just say that i have clearly not read the bible.

so enlighten me, you who have studied. lend me your wisdom, master.

Well so much for you charging me for education... no need to call me master dear chap.

I have given you enough bible quotes to get stuck into..



do you seriously want me to explain all that stuff to you? why?

i haven't read the bible as you said, so why don't you explain them to me.

and why don't you give me the passage, you who have studied the bible? what, you don't know which one it is?

your post is driven by hate towards Christianity and although i am not trying to defend it or take its part, you respond like i am some kind of priest. you missed the whole point and went off topic again. that's the thirdwave we all know.

What ever you say... I have no hate for christians are they are all diforent people I am not even "anti religion" .. i make no effort to prevent websites and churches from doing what they want... I ah how ever very PRO free info.... and free research... where altenrtaive views can be shared and looked at... and this is where my passion sits.. its only those who are against it for some reason who will feel my heat.... and christians on a david icke forum really should expect to meet people like me here.




.

[vladmir]

I think it pretty clear in my head.
For life in 3rd dimension, on the physical plane,
its going to require a planet, but a planet that is revolving around a Sun.
Without a nearby Star, ANY planet anywhere in the entire Universe is going to be in minus 200+ degrees BELOW ZERO.
We are all made of Stars!
All of the elements of the periodic table, have come from stars.
It is so obvious to realise that any civilization, anywhere in the universe, as long as it is conscious on a planet in 3D, is going to be conscious because of a Sun around which their planet revolves, and therefore, the wisest of the people are going to come to the conclusion that Sun is absolutely essential for Life to blossom and prosper, thanks to the energy it recieves from the Sun.

Plants and other micro-organisms need sunlight to grow.
If plants dont grow, animals dont grow,
and therefore humans who eat plants and animals dont grow.
Like i said, it is so obvious why people had and still have such a high regard and fascination for the Sun.

[thirdwave]

I think it pretty clear in my head.
For life in 3rd dimension, on the physical plane,
its going to require a planet, but a planet that is revolving around a Sun.
Without a nearby Star, ANY planet anywhere in the entire Universe is going to be in minus 200+ degrees BELOW ZERO.
We are all made of Stars!
All of the elements of the periodic table, have come from stars.
It is so obvious to realise that any civilization, anywhere in the universe, as long as it is conscious on a planet in 3D, is going to be conscious because of a Sun around which their planet revolves, and therefore, the wisest of the people are going to come to the conclusion that Sun is absolutely essential for Life to blossom and prosper, thanks to the energy it recieves from the Sun.

Plants and other micro-organisms need sunlight to grow.
If plants dont grow, animals dont grow,
and therefore humans who eat plants and animals dont grow.
Like i said, it is so obvious why people had and still have such a high regard and fascination for the Sun.


this is it....

and why its understandable for "sun worship" to have naturally surfaced at some stage on earth.... once people understood exactly what the sun does....

of course there is also another slant to it and allot of this "sun worship" you see could also be linked to "Vinus" and of course have other motives..

[vladmir]

this is it....

of course there is also another slant to it and allot of this "sun worship" you see could also be linked to "Vinus" and of course have other motives..
Yeah, out of the simple idea of 'Sun Admiration'
you can build many levels over time,
and elect a priest class which put in rituals and ceremonies,
and just keeps on adding mumbo-jumbo and other complexities to an inherently simple practice,
and then have many 'degrees' where you get the 'truth' in degrees as you 'rise' up the ranks,
and if you are sufficiently devious you can basically hijack the whole point,
and pervert it to be twisted to be anything of your choosing,
and the stupid artificial complexity introduced by the priest class to stay on 'top', actually makes manipulation of the masses that follow your 'teaching' that much easier.

[bigus_dickus]

I am not sure I have a prefrence lol, I would like to think I would not worship anyone through fear allthough have thankfully not been tested to the extreme...

But its quite common for people to adopt that "Worship" mentality when faced with someone that holds power over them... be it you Boss at work... how many people grovel and ass kiss their boss? .. why?, because they love them? ..no, because they fear the consequences of falling out of favour with him/her... and understand the advantages of kissing their arse....

likewise the Royal Family... you think people worshipped them because of love? .. or because those seen to question the monarch where tortured and killed?

Do you really not understand that concept?... you claim to know quite allot of others things that require a little more understand than this.

i know what you are talking about, but that's not worship. obedience through fear, so that people who fear death or hell because of their own actions, they are made to obey to whatever god says through his priests in the quest for salvation.

the point is that obedience and servitude, if done out of fear, it doesn't have anything to do with salvation of one's soul. it is not a form of worship. if you are made by fear to obey your master without your consent, this doesn't mean that you worship him.

that's because worship literally means paying reverence and honor to a divine being and it doesn't mean oppression. in other words, it's one's choice whether to worship or not, no matter what you tell him and what method you will use. someone may decide that they don't want to, or that they hate god, or whatever. this choice cannot be undone by someone else, that's why i said that no one can be made to worship if they don't choose it themselves. if someone is "made" to do something by force, or by trickery, what he does from this point on is not really worshiping, but pretending.

from what i have learned from Christians, these guys worship God and Jesus only, not the sun, any other planet, any other galaxy or any other being. this is because God is supposed to be the father of all of the above, so it makes no sense choosing only the sun.

Again, No shit!... Do you understand that I do not believe the God to be real? lol, I am talking about the bible, not about what I believe.

yes of course. i am talking about the bible too and i am not questioning whether God is real or not, i am talking about what these people believed. the beliefs among christians vary a lot, so the bible does not represent one set of beliefs. that's why we have some thousands of different versions of the bible. so the bible says that God spake to Moses and said this and that. regardless of whether i believe God is real or not, i don't believe that God or anyone spake to Moses or anything. Moses probably imagined everything, or "channeled" it, like modern prophets claim. it's the same case put with different words. so when someone says that he is "channeling" some being, i don't believe that this some being, real or not, talked to the "channeler".

Well feel free to provide me with these passages!

i am not able to do this right now. you can find it mostly in the dialogs between Jesus and his disciples, also inside the gnostic gospels (NHL) and of course the story of Thomas and his disbelief.

Why would there be no doubt? ... I think you need to look up the word Manipulation.... and what symptoms can be seen within it.

because doubt would not be needed to be included into the document, like propagandist documents are made.

looking up the word manipulation:
c.1730, "a method of digging ore," from Fr. manipulation, from manipule "handful" (a pharmacists' measure), from L. manipulus "handful, sheaf," from manus "hand" (see manual) + root of plere "to fill" (see plenary). Sense of "skillful handling of objects" is first recorded 1826; extended 1828 to "handling of persons" as well as objects. Manipulative is from 1836; manipulate is from 1831.

manipulation is not a disease to have symptoms or side effects. it is about making someone do or think something, while by doing it, he is working for my agenda that he completely ignores.

Well it would be an awful long thread for me to post it all here but good idea.. here is a select few for you to get stuck into, then we can take it from there..

here you selected a few passages from the old testament and some from the new. these two collections of books have many differences. one of them is that the first depicts God talking himself and giving orders (to the Jewish people who were worshiping Baal, hence the reference to other gods and the sacrifices made to them) and the second does not show God speaking, but it is all about Jesus.

the Greek text that i am reading, is not always accurately translated, so sometimes when i see text like this out of context, i can't tell where it is from. for example this passage here:

"20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"

this is the text in Greek
"οὐ προσκυνήσεις αὐτοῖς οὐδὲ μὴ λατρεύσῃς αὐτοῖς ἐγὼ γάρ εἰμι κύριος ὁ θεός σου θεὸς ζηλωτὴς ἀποδιδοὺς ἁμαρτίας πατέρων ἐπὶ τέκνα ἕως τρίτης καὶ τετάρτης γενεᾶς τοῖς μισοῦσίν με"

this is how i translate it: don't bow to them and don't worship them, because i am your lord God, the zealot, who pays the sins of the fathers on their children up to the third and fourth generation, who hate me.

what it appears to be saying here, is that your sins affect your children and grandchildren. in other words, it is talking about something similar to KARMA, but it says that it is not personal. it says that what people do, right or wrong, the effects will be seen on their children and grandchildren up to the 4th generation. it is talking about the heredity of traits to children, before heredity was discovered and documented by science.

i can do this kind of analysis to the other passages, but it takes up too much of my time.

Let me know If you would like me to post some more as that was just a quick one..

if it's a mistranslation, it won't do any good, i will have to explain again what it is really supposed to be saying.

No, YOU are the one that claimed they do not exsist, s YOU are the one who need to prove such a fact... I have simply said that we DO NOT KNOW... which is TRUE, are you really incapable of fathoming that?????

I have only been to 1 planet... earth.... only thing I have known and I take it you are the same.. so how is it you seem to know its the only one?? Please tell me as It would be an amazing discovery! LOL

i did not claim that other planets do not exist.

i simply said that it's the only planet we live in. you said that i don't know that and you know something more. i asked you what is that more that you know and you say that you just don't know..

Yes, as have you.... and this goes back to my first point on why people in the past have viewed the sun as such a Godly presence... because this planet is all they know and the sun is what keeps it alive...

why you went on about other planets I don't know ..lol, we do not know what else is out there, we can only guess.... what we do know is what's on earth and how the Sun helps it.... lol, kind of went around in a big circle there!

that's why people in the past thought that the Sun was God. but Christianity is not about that, that's why it is different from paganism and that's why it is not paganism. but there are many suns, many planets and many universes. other people in other planets may be worshiping their closest star, but that doesn't mean that this star is the creator of the universe, but a creation of the universe. confusing creations for the creator is quite common. we are also creators, because we create and every living being is made in order to create, but no distinct living being is the creator.

for example, imagine the creator as a massive black whole, who gives out (visible to us and invisible -> cosmic rain or solar wind) light. thus, the light (which bends around time and forms matter) is regarded as the breath of God. (it took three breaths for the humans to emerge, this could mean three large epochs). this makes the sun and every other star, a radiator of light. a "small" white whole which radiates. in genesis, it is said that what was first made, was light. so, first there was light and then the sun was made. it wasn't the other way around, according to this ancient tradition, so the sun can not be more important to the universe than the other suns, it can only be important to us, because from its light we take form and life. we have a very deep connection to it, but nevertheless, the sun is a being on itself, creator in its own right, as we are, but not the creator of the universe.

you dont want to talk about the Sun? even though that was the point of our conversation ??

i mean that i don't want to explain the physics of what the sun is and what it does, because this is off topic.

however, anyone can access this information:
Sun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ok ....

you said

Quote:
i didn't say it brings life. life is not brought from anywhere, life is what manifests. life can manifest as we know it, individual living beings, plants, insects, animals, humans, etc.

Quote:
but life can also manifest as we don't know it and that means invisible to us.

So I said you must be open to the fact that humans are likely to be out there on a planet just like earth even though we cant see it...

as the Sun makes life manifest on our planet, other Suns make life manifest on other planets. i don't have to be open about that, it makes sense and i have not stated the opposite.

and with that we have no idea if anyone from this planet has been their a visa versa.... or do you know???

clearer?

i don't know, if i get a visa i can visit other planets? where do i get the visa from? the above sentence is not English!

I thought you were trying to tell me that there is no reason for people in the past to have seen it as an icon of worship... I asm telling you that the solor system would not exists with out it, hence why the planets revolve around the sun....

no, people in the past have seen it as an icon of worship and not only in the past, a lot of people see it as that today and it's not wrong. the wrong is to assume that it created the universe.

i also said that without the moon (i mean OUR moon, not jupiter's moons), life as we know it on earth would not be possible. that's because, as i said, the moon slowed down the rotation of earth, caused the atmosphere to emerge, with the conjunction of the sun and made conditions on earth stabilize. this created a protective magnetic layer of the earth and warm layer above it that we call it atmosphere, where beings like us can be born and grow. in other planets, people may be inhaling ozone and exhaling sulfur, it could be totally different. but the fact is that the moon makes the earth rotate in this particular speed and wobble a little. had there not been the moon (how it got here is still a mystery), the earth would rotate faster, the climate would switch from ice age conditions to drought within a year's time and it would not be possible for example for forests to exist. no forests, no animals, no humans, etc. the earth would also wobble far more than it does today (the precision of the equinoxes) and time would be very different.

thats right, you said

"these conditions, about how life manifests and what form it takes, are mainly influenced by the moon, because of many interesting facts about it that you may already know."

So I will amend my comment here

Third Wave says
"Rubbish, the moon is not the main influence on how life manifests and what form it takes... do your research.... feel free to prove me wrong."

ok?

i explained some simple facts about the moon that you obviously ignored on the previous paragraph.

you are confusing the "spirit" (the so called Holy Spirit) with the "spirits" and ghosts, therefore there is nothing more i can explain about that. i was talking about something else, you confused it.

Im not confusing anything I am going by what your post stated here


"something that you can't explain doesn't necessarily have to do with spirit. or when you are stressed or depressed and seek for a way out and turn to spirituality, this is not a spiritual urge either. the spirit is all about love, life, light, truth and existence."

if you had said "The Holy Spirit" other than "Spirit" then maybe you would have made your self clearer... again communication issues.... no 20p for you!

and my point still stands.

"the spirit", or "spirit", or "holy spirit", is not spirits and ghosts. it is "the spirit" and it is supposed to be everyone's. the "breath of God" as i mention above, or "the light" if you will. it is everywhere, because light goes everywhere. even matter is also light "trapped", so even matter is spirit manifest. this is kind of basic, you know.

Now, I simply stated that I thought your translations where inaccurate, and then I pointed out that why is the one instance not relevant... hence your "it doesn't translate gods" ....

i am not using translations, but the originals and i can translate them for you if you want.

Sure.

again you quoted the Old Testament, which describes the rituals that were already been done for the previous "false" gods, namely Baal. that's because it was meant to be read by the people who worshiped Baal and made these sacrifices. these people had made a temple and believed that god lived in that temple. the O.T. is about changing that belief and therefore changing their religious practices. that's why the O.T. was outdated and did not apply to christianity any more and the N.T. was made to substitute all this. the O.T. is nothing but a great part of the Torah, which is the connection of judaism with christianity, it doesn't describe the Christian beliefs. the Torah was more a tradition than it was a religion and it was mainly jewish poetry that only the jews could fully understand.

Utter rubbish... feel free to forward me the pre corupt bible... and let me know where you magaged to find a disinfected copy??

there is no pre corrupt bible. there is the bible and some 35,000 different versions of it. which one is the corrupted?

its YOUR CHOICE to assume that there was a pure source prior to it but with NO EVIDENCE.. we only have the book!... So what makes you think you can have a problem with me addressing this?

what do you mean no evidence, 35,000 different versions is not evidence? why would people need to make different versions?

Well your the one who "doesnt want to talk about the sun" as you have previously said...

in case you haven't noticed, i was talking about the Sun's physics, not about something metaphysical. so i said that i don't want to go into astrophysics and teach you what the sun is. go and read somewhere else, maybe at the link that i provided above.

[cycles of time]

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/45/l_60b41c5c31fe48bea602fe7b6c72f170.jpg

[cycles of time]

christianity is truly based on the consumption of hallucinogenic materials,much as every other religion around the world is pretty much based on the same. give me a religion ,and i can give you examples of ritualistic use of substances.the problem with religion today is that it has been robbed of its essence,of its lifeforce,of its connection/gateway into natures spiritual side.

the native american church in america,which is a mix of native american belief and catholicism,alllows use of the sacred substance peyote (mescaline).they are the only people legally allowed to use mescaline in america.







Exodus 16:14-24 indicates that Manna was inevitably a mushroom.
It was a small round thing in the morning dew, it bred larva, and would melt to mush if not dried. King James Version.
All “wild” mushroom pickers know that mushrooms are most notorious for being infested with worms. This is because flies worldwide of all varieties lay their eggs up into the gills, which then hatch causing the larvae/worms to crawl out as the mushroom matures.

Daniel 5:3-5 with Exodus 16:32 and Hebrews 9:4
indicates that the mushroom was a drug. After sacking the temple in Jerusalem and stealing the Ark-of-the-Covenant, the King of Babylon and his table drank from the golden cup containing the holy “Manna” they had visions within the hour. Psilocybin mushrooms take 30-40 minutes to induce visions.

Hebrews 9:4 makes it clear that Manna was the most holy thing to Israelites, kept in a Pot-Of-Gold in the Ark Of The Covenant, in the Most Holy Of Holys. So sacred is the Manna that only the High Priest has access to it, and only on one day of the year Yom Kippur, which comes 3 days before the harvest moon AllHallowsEve.

Psalm 78:24-25 calls Manna Food Of Angels, just as Mayan/Inca Priests from Meso-America called it Teonanacatl Food Of The Gods.
Manna is an Egyptian word, not Hebrew or Aramaic, meaning;
The Bread of God. This is what Moses called it in Exodus 16:15.
“Bread Of God” means Food-Of-God, which is the same meaning of Teonanacatl (Mayan), and Ambrosia Greek, and Soma Hindu a word for mushroom tea, all these words mean “Spiritual Food”.
Coca and Tobacco Leaves found in Pharaohs tombs suggest it was ancestors of Mayan/Inca Priests who brought mushrooms to Egypt.

John 2:6-9 indicates that Jesus made water into wine by boiling mushrooms Mushroom-Tea, the waterpots were made of stone, not clay, stone pots were used for cooking, clay pots used for storing water. These pots already contained 2-3 firkins of a substance before the pots were filled with water.
A Firkin is an Old-English measurement meaning a fourth part. Half to three-quarters of fresh mushrooms with water makes a potent tea. Tea is the safest way to consume field mushrooms, killing dangerous bacteria like E. Coli. In the Atharva Veda, the Hindus called this Tea Soma. Greeks called mushroom jelly Ambrosia.
Those who drank the water made into wine said it was the most potent intoxicant St. John 2:10. The Bible tells us that Jesus making water into wine was the “beginning of miracles” … in other words no one saw any miracles until drinking the wine made from water. St. John 2:11.

Certainly for the Israelites Egypt was the origin of Manna, which explains why all the Patriarchs of Israel were educated in Egypt, Moses, Christ, and Joseph The favorite son of Israel, were all educated in Egypt. Solomon married Pharaoh’s daughter, and Abraham found his God at a place called Shechem, which is another Egyptian word for Manna.
Teonanacatl [Maya]
Soma [Hindu]
Ambrosia or Broma-Theon [Greek]
Manna [Egyptian, Israelite]
It can be no coincidence that the Mayan, Egyptian, Greek, Hindu, and Israelite words for the mushroom all mean exactly the same thing: The Bread Of God.

Manna was round, was found on the ground in the dew, would melt to mush if not dried or collected on time, and would breed larvae. All unique characteristics of mushrooms. When dried it was like “wafers of bread” and it’s color was like “coriander seed”, the consistency and color of dried mushrooms, as described in Exodus Ch. 16.


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(Ex 16:31)- “And the house of Israel called the name thereof Manna; and it was like coriander seed, white; and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey” -(Ex 16:31). In Palanque Mexico where Psilocybe Cubensis grows year round in pastures that surround the pyramids I learned that honey is an age old way of preserving mushrooms, by immersing them in the honey, the water-soluble psilocybin then leaches into the honey as it is heated at a low temperature over several days, the mushrooms can then be strained out, making “Blue-Honey” which explains not only why Manna was said to taste of honey, but also explains the sweet tasting jelly-like elixir of the Greeks called “Ambrosia”.

Later in Numbers 11:6-9 we are told that Manna tasted of fresh oil, which is perhaps a better description of the taste of “fresh” mushrooms not preserved in honey or by drying. We are also told that Manna was baked into cakes, which is another means of preserving mushrooms so they won’t spoil, and also a safety measure ensuring that dangerous E. Coli (and other germs from

[vladmir]

This thread started about exploration into the idea that Eucharist in Mass could be substituted Sun worship.
That argument has some very valid points, as has been shown in the replys, that it just might be true.
Threads and videos and books have been written comparing the Jesus story to a tale of the Sun moving thru the heavens. Of course, not just Christianity, but the foundations of many other religions.

Now, people will either reject the idea or be intrigued by it.

What i find hilarious, is people who are missing the point here,
when they are defending 'their' God.
Think about this.

IF for you, Sun is the Son of God, then see how amazing the journey becomes.
1) You can actually SEE the Sun! (unlike some Gods that i can name :D )
2) There is no need to go to a specific building to 'worship' the Sun.
3) The Sun gives you heat and Light and Life, and that something you can genuinely feel grateful for, because the Sun dosent ask you for anything, he demands no sacrifices, or money or a particular clothing or emblems.
4) No priest need come in between you and Gods Sun, the Light of the World.
5) There are no dry boring literature yo need to find him, no commandments can be enforced to follow, the Sun sheds His light on ALL, dosent he?

There can be so many other points, but i have made my point. ;)

[thirdwave]

i know what you are talking about, but that's not worship. obedience through fear, so that people who fear death or hell because of their own actions, they are made to obey to whatever god says through his priests in the quest for salvation.

the point is that obedience and servitude, if done out of fear, it doesn't have anything to do with salvation of one's soul. it is not a form of worship. if you are made by fear to obey your master without your consent, this doesn't mean that you worship him.

that's because worship literally means paying reverence and honor to a divine being and it doesn't mean oppression. in other words, it's one's choice whether to worship or not, no matter what you tell him and what method you will use. someone may decide that they don't want to, or that they hate god, or whatever. this choice cannot be undone by someone else, that's why i said that no one can be made to worship if they don't choose it themselves. if someone is "made" to do something by force, or by trickery, what he does from this point on is not really worshiping, but pretending.

utter rubbish... worship is somthing an indavidual does.... how do you know ones motive? ... you can say that there is genuine worship that is not genuine.... but its still worshiping.... this is why Gods have been worshiped in the past... where sacrifices have been made... you are talking utter nonsense... For a start you are totaly missing the point... I could not care a less how genuine the worship is... what ever You want to call it.. "fake worship" ..."fake love" ..knock your self out, but my point is quite clear.

you are in a hole and you should stop now before you make your self come across even more ignorant... your wrong... make a cup of tea and get over it.

from what i have learned from Christians, these guys worship God and Jesus only, not the sun, any other planet, any other galaxy or any other being. this is because God is supposed to be the father of all of the above, so it makes no sense choosing only the sun.
Ahhh so you know what a Christian is!.. Well done!

The thread is about a hidden meaning to the bible that is over looked.....



yes of course. i am talking about the bible too and i am not questioning whether God is real or not, i am talking about what these people believed.

Why?? , has that kind of not allready been covered..?? lol

the beliefs among christians vary a lot, so the bible does not represent one set of beliefs.
but they all belive that the bible is a book about Jesus Christ who was sent from heaven by God to die for our sins..... and this is what is being desputed...

Let me put bring you in the picture.... no one is saying what the bible is really meant to be to christians.... its a case of how it contains hidden info within it.

Feel free to brush this thieory off... but we dont need an eduaction on what christians belive! lol

I am also aware of what "Jesus" said... and what "moses" said... and so on.... but thats somone saying "9/11 was an inside job" .. and somone else going " but CNN they said it was Bin Ladan, dont know what your talking about"

if you are going to debate, then please try to open your mind a little bit even just to understand what is being discussed regardless of if you believe it.


i am not able to do this right now. you can find it mostly in the dialogs between Jesus and his disciples, also inside the gnostic gospels (NHL) and of course the story of Thomas and his disbelief.
More Rubbish...

here... you have the hole bible on line OT and NT .... feel free to copy and paste.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

because doubt would not be needed to be included into the document, like propagandist documents are made.

Well thats the point... if its there to create brainwashing and to create devision which it did, then it would be needed!

So now you are a Pro in religious mind control?, Explain why there are contradictions in the bible then, and please read it before you make me post you a stack of quotes showing you the contradictions.



manipulation is not a disease to have symptoms or side effects. it is about making someone do or think something, while by doing it, he is working for my agenda that he completely ignores.
there you go...



here you selected a few passages from the old testament and some from the new. these two collections of books have many differences.

Ok so are we talking about "THE BIBLE" ... or are you now going to tell me that you dont want to talk about the OT anymore.... and again ignore the quotes from the NT I sent you?

one of them is that the first depicts God talking himself and giving orders (to the Jewish people who were worshiping Baal, hence the reference to other gods and the sacrifices made to them) and the second does not show God speaking, but it is all about Jesus.

I am shocked I have to tell you again that I am talking about "THE BIBLE" ... and its fascinating that you cant grasp that... I told you the bible promotes worship ... and you asked me to show you... and then you come up with more bull shit rather than admit you are wrong.... :rolleyes:

please spend a few moments trying to understand how the bible and the character Jesus are two different things... Jesus is a person in the bible that has created many opinions.... and the bible is a large old book that created Christianity... hence it was not around before the bible... and try to read my questions before you tell me I am wrong and end up having your ignorance exposed... I could not care a less what people think Jesus was and hoe good or bad or unreal he was... I am talking about THE BIBLE and how IT CONTAINS sun worship symbology.... I could not give a monkeys if Jesus asked us to worship the sun or a monkey turd... as you have cleary pointed out there is more to the bible than just Jesus... but lets not forget that we would not have heard of Jesus if it was not for the bible.... of maybe we would have in the Koran where it denys him as the son of god and deny's he was crucified.

dear oh dear oh dear....



the Greek text that i am reading, is not always accurately translated, so sometimes when i see text like this out of context, i can't tell where it is from. for example this passage here:

"20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"

this is the text in Greek
"οὐ προσκυνήσεις αὐτοῖς οὐδὲ μὴ λατρεύσῃς αὐτοῖς ἐγὼ γάρ εἰμι κύριος ὁ θεός σου θεὸς ζηλωτὴς ἀποδιδοὺς ἁμαρτίας πατέρων ἐπὶ τέκνα ἕως τρίτης καὶ τετάρτης γενεᾶς τοῖς μισοῦσίν με"

this is how i translate it: don't bow to them and don't worship them, because i am your lord God, the zealot, who pays the sins of the fathers on their children up to the third and fourth generation, who hate me.

what it appears to be saying here, is that your sins affect your children and grandchildren. in other words, it is talking about something similar to KARMA, but it says that it is not personal. it says that what people do, right or wrong, the effects will be seen on their children and grandchildren up to the 4th generation. it is talking about the heredity of traits to children, before heredity was discovered and documented by science.

i can do this kind of analysis to the other passages, but it takes up too much of my time.


You are kidding me right???

You dont understand the part where he says "BECAUSE I AM A JELOUSE GOD"????

LOL!!!!!! *rolling on the floor laughing*


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whhooooooo hoooooo!!!!!!!

sniff....sniff..... ahhhh dear......

Well you have done a good job in translating this texts.... but you have failed to understand that it means the God is saying that if you worship another god ... he will not like it because he wants you to worship him.....

lol.

definitely no 20p teachers fee for you!... and I'm defo not going to listen to you again when you try and talk about what old texts mean.


if it's a mistranslation, it won't do any good, i will have to explain again what it is really supposed to be saying.

No i mean after you have read my question properly.. that "The bible promotes worship" .... and understand your answer was, to show you.... and then you see I did...

Then I say again, let me know and I will show you some more...


i did not claim that other planets do not exist.

i simply said that it's the only planet we live in. you said that i don't know that and you know something more. i asked you what is that more that you know and you say that you just don't know..


I did not say I knew anything... I CLEARLY said I don't know.... I asked YOU how do you know this is our only planet.....

YOU said this was the only planet we live in.... I said how do you know.... and then you felt the need to ask me how do I know there is.... of which I replied I don't know..... which is why I have not claimed that we live on many planets...

come on man... wake up.




that's why people in the past thought that the Sun was God. but Christianity is not about that,

LOL, rrrrrreaally??????? Who would of thunk it!

Let me guess!, its about Jesus christ and the father the son and the holy spirit right?

...ok....

So although I'm a bit confused as to where you are coming from... I am gona take it that you are more incline to think there is no hidden Sun worship within the bible.... or Christianity.... Good for you!

I disagree.

that's why it is different from paganism and that's why it is not paganism. but there are many suns, many planets and many universes. other people in other planets may be worshiping their closest star, but that doesn't mean that this star is the creator of the universe,

No one is saying that the Sun is god ...dear oh dear.... it is simply being pointed out what maybe be afoot..... and why.... again you contradict your self where you have stated this is our only planet!... so why now are you saying the sun is of less value because of what's around other planets?

The sun is not my god..... I am saying what's there... not what is....









as the Sun makes life manifest on our planet, other Suns make life manifest on other planets. i don't have to be open about that, it makes sense and i have not stated the opposite.

So if you where a tribe back in the days of the Maya, and you new the sun kept you and the planet you are on alive you would not worship it because you would thank.... "hang about.... there are probably others keeping other people alive, so its not as valuable as we think!"

also maybe your little thing about others suns on other planets might also explain the "godS" thing... as most old tects very much refer to GODS .... SUNS.....

Do you really not see how much rubbish you are talking or are you just playing games? (there is your way out if you want)




i don't know, if i get a visa i can visit other planets? where do i get the visa from? the above sentence is not English!
Well it is, its just you are not really on the ball....

So I think what we have discovered is despite your claim, we don't really know if our race or another race on earth, is also on another planet.


no, people in the past have seen it as an icon of worship and not only in the past, a lot of people see it as that today and it's not wrong. the wrong is to assume that it created the universe.
and where did you hear that from?




i explained some simple facts about the moon that you obviously ignored on the previous paragraph.


the earth or we, do not need the moon.. FACT.

"the spirit", or "spirit", or "holy spirit", is not spirits and ghosts. it is "the spirit" and it is supposed to be everyone's. the "breath of God" as i mention above, or "the light" if you will. it is everywhere, because light goes everywhere. even matter is also light "trapped", so even matter is spirit manifest. this is kind of basic, you know.

No, spirit is a word that used to mean "breath" .. not a christian term.... the "Holy Spirit" is a christian term.... you where wrong.


i am not using translations, but the originals and i can translate them for you if you want.


please do..... you mean the ones that you were shown at school?? lol


again you quoted the Old Testament, which describes the rituals that were already been done for the previous "false" gods, namely Baal.

And why cant I quote the OT???

please explain because I find it baffling!



there is no pre corrupt bible. there is the bible and some 35,000 different versions of it. which one is the corrupted?
You tell me whcih one is not as my views are clear that they all are.



what do you mean no evidence, 35,000 different versions is not evidence? why would people need to make different versions?

why would they make one version?


in case you haven't noticed, i was talking about the Sun's physics, not about something metaphysical. so i said that i don't want to go into astrophysics and teach you what the sun is. go and read somewhere else, maybe at the link that i provided above.


Well learn to have a conversation ... as you cant just suddenly start spouting a load or crap and expect others to know what you are on about....

you have shown nothing here apart from extrema ignorance and ego in not expecting when you are clearly talking bollox.

[element]

this is the text in Greek
"οὐ προσκυνήσεις αὐτοῖς οὐδὲ μὴ λατρεύσῃς αὐτοῖς ἐγὼ γάρ εἰμι κύριος ὁ θεός σου θεὸς ζηλωτὴς ἀποδιδοὺς ἁμαρτίας πατέρων ἐπὶ τέκνα ἕως τρίτης καὶ τετάρτης γενεᾶς τοῖς μισοῦσίν με"

this is how i translate it: don't bow to them and don't worship them, because i am your lord God, the zealot, who pays the sins of the fathers on their children up to the third and fourth generation, who hate me.

what it appears to be saying here, is that your sins affect your children and grandchildren. in other words, it is talking about something similar to KARMA, but it says that it is not personal. it says that what people do, right or wrong, the effects will be seen on their children and grandchildren up to the 4th generation. it is talking about the heredity of traits to children, before heredity was discovered and documented by science.


Interesting. Thanks. :D

[bigus_dickus]

utter rubbish... worship is somthing an indavidual does.... how do you know ones motive? ... you can say that there is genuine worship that is not genuine.... but its still worshiping.... this is why Gods have been worshiped in the past... where sacrifices have been made... you are talking utter nonsense... For a start you are totaly missing the point... I could not care a less how genuine the worship is... what ever You want to call it.. "fake worship" ..."fake love" ..knock your self out, but my point is quite clear.

no, it's you who are talking nonsense. for one, i don't understand what you write above. what language is that?

Ahhh so you know what a Christian is!.. Well done!

The thread is about a hidden meaning to the bible that is over looked.....

what is the thread about again? LOL

Why?? , has that kind of not allready been covered..?? lol

what?

Let me put bring you in the picture.... no one is saying what the bible is really meant to be to christians.... its a case of how it contains hidden info within it.

what hidden info?

Feel free to brush this thieory off... but we dont need an eduaction on what christians belive! lol

no apparently you don't. unless when you start saying inaccuracies or lies that you have read somewhere else.

I am also aware of what "Jesus" said... and what "moses" said... and so on.... but thats somone saying "9/11 was an inside job" .. and somone else going " but CNN they said it was Bin Ladan, dont know what your talking about"

if you are going to debate, then please try to open your mind a little bit even just to understand what is being discussed regardless of if you believe it.

ok, i will get a chainsaw and open it. or will a knife do?

so you are now saying that i don't know what is being discussed? who are you discussing with?

More Rubbish...

here... you have the hole bible on line OT and NT .... feel free to copy and paste.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/


what does this have to do with what i said?

Well thats the point... if its there to create brainwashing and to create devision which it did, then it would be needed!

why?

So now you are a Pro in religious mind control?, Explain why there are contradictions in the bible then, and please read it before you make me post you a stack of quotes showing you the contradictions.

no i am not, are you?

there are no contradictions in it, but discrepancies. a contradiction is when something, an idea is contrary - the opposite - to something else.

Ok so are we talking about "THE BIBLE" ... or are you now going to tell me that you dont want to talk about the OT anymore.... and again ignore the quotes from the NT I sent you?

no, we are talking about " Eucharist in Mass is Sun Worship " which is the topic of the thread. i explain what the quotes that you posted are about and it was clear to all (except you as it seems).

I am shocked I have to tell you again that I am talking about "THE BIBLE" ... and its fascinating that you cant grasp that... I told you the bible promotes worship ... and you asked me to show you... and then you come up with more bull shit rather than admit you are wrong.... :rolleyes:

what you showed, is not promoting worship. i said in the beginning that Jesus does not ask for worship. these quotes talk about worshiping of course. worshiping did not start with the bible, so the bible says that everyone should stop worshiping the old false gods. in the O.T., in the quote that you posted, this is very clear. it says: "if he wants to worship, then.. blah blah". in other words it says that if someone is going to worship a god anyway, then he should not choose to worship the old gods who are fake.

this is how i explain this, reading from the passage and directly translating it. what you think or believe about it, is not what it really says.

please spend a few moments trying to understand how the bible and the character Jesus are two different things... Jesus is a person in the bible that has created many opinions.... and the bible is a large old book that created Christianity... hence it was not around before the bible... and try to read my questions before you tell me I am wrong and end up having your ignorance exposed...

wrong.

the bible was canonized in the 14th century. until then, there were many books and not one official "bible". the word "bible" is short for the Greek bibliotheke, which means library, literally "a collection of books". until one book was agreed, a 1,500 years later from the time of Jesus, there was no bible, so Christianity was not created by the bible. this could not have been so, because this implies that someone (one person or group) invented everything and then everyone just bought it with no question.

this is not what really happened. you obviously have never read about the history of religion and philosophy.

I could not care a less what people think Jesus was and hoe good or bad or unreal he was... I am talking about THE BIBLE and how IT CONTAINS sun worship symbology.... I could not give a monkeys if Jesus asked us to worship the sun or a monkey turd... as you have cleary pointed out there is more to the bible than just Jesus... but lets not forget that we would not have heard of Jesus if it was not for the bible.... of maybe we would have in the Koran where it denys him as the son of god and deny's he was crucified.

dear oh dear oh dear....

this is wrong. just because you have a bible, this doesn't mean that the whole story is about the bible. first things happened, then people wrote papyri, then these papyri got collected and MANY years later, these papyri became a codex form - the bible. there is no sun symbology in it, this is propaganda spread by ignorant people, which you believe.

You dont understand the part where he says "BECAUSE I AM A JELOUSE GOD"????

the translation is not correct.

the word is not jealous, but zealot.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=zealot

LOL!!!!!! *rolling on the floor laughing*

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whhooooooo hoooooo!!!!!!!

sniff....sniff..... ahhhh dear......

isn't this ridiculous or what? why am i chatting with this guy? you know, i might just stop here, it is not worth the time.

[thirdwave]

no, it's you who are talking nonsense. for one, i don't understand what you write above. what language is that?


Ok, so now it is clear you talk shocking amounts of poo poo I think its time for me to stop wasting my time...


the translation is not correct.

the word is not jealous, but zealot.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=zealot


You are quite clearly a bullshitter of the highest degree and I would not trust you as far as IU could throw a sky scraper...
I can tell you would rather lie than admit you are wrong... and its clearly an ego thing...

this is the quote you are talking about and this is the way it has been translated


Exodus
20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

why do you think it has been translated like this? ... because you were not there to tell them how its done?

[lovemore]

Peace,

The special thing about the bible is prophecy. God, who defines himself to be the creator of heaven and earth - that includes the sun and the stars, says this:

"Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them." Isaiah 42:9

The special thing about Christ, is that he was spoken of in the old testament, before he appeared.

There were many false Christs and false teachers and there remain them until this day. Believing in Jesus is the only way to heaven because Jesus was the one that fulfilled God's prophecies. Hence to believe in Christ Jesus, is also to believe God, because God before spake of him. And believing in God, is the means by which we may be counted righteous and not suffer destruction as on judgement day.

Believing that Jesus is the Son of God, is not a matter of me saying that, and you saying, "Oh yes I believe Jesus is the Son of God" whatever that might mean metaphysically. NO, it means reading the second Psalm, and believing the witness of God himself as spoken by the Holy Spirit through David when he wrote:

"I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." Psalm 2:7

This is why "Christ" and "Son of God" are used interchangeably in the letters of John: they have the same meaning.

Now you may not consider it strange that one man popularized a religion that was peculiar to a single people, and caused it to be preached to all nations. But consider this, that God himself, declared this before it happened.

"Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles." Isaiah 42:1 see also Isaiah 11:10; 42:1,6; 49:6,22; 60:3-5; 62:1-2

"O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit." Jeremiah 16:19

Christ is the fulfillment of the promise to Abraham: "And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed" Gen 25:18a

And this is the promise in which we have have faith, that God who raised Christ from the dead, will also resurrect those who believe unto eternal life.

Now, concerning sun worship, let me make an observation, and this is really an aside. That baal worship is alive and well, only the name is changed to ball. Where do sun worshipers every summer to watch people serve the baal? Wimbledon (tennis). Even in football they have songs or play organs, people treat it very religiously; they are mostly unaware of what they worship.

Now, Israel became a kingdom divided into Israel and Judah. Israel went astray after false gods, which displeased God much, given it was against commandments 1. And yes, he is a jealous God, so much so, that he divorced them:

"And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also." Jerimiah 3:8

And through idolatry they broke commandment no 2.
"And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks." Jeremiah 3:9

Now here is the interesting thing. The leaders of Judah gave lip service to God, but in secret worshipped the sun, breaking commandment no. 3.

"12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, the LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth.
13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.
14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.
15 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.
16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east." Ezekiel 8:12-16

Now, I will make a some observations about freemasonry.
1. Masonry involves worship.
2. Masonic halls never have windows; they worship in the dark.
3. The only name you are not allowed to mention in a masonic hall is Jesus'.

Now the special thing about the bible is prophecy. The bible spoke about conspiracy and deception; the manner in which the world is ruled even today.

"The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us." Psalm 2:2-3

If you follow through the prophecies of Daniel, he speaks of three kingdoms (empires) to follow the Babylonian empire. The Medes and the Persians (according to the bible they have two kings reigning at once, according to history they follow each other); the realm of Grecia, which becomes split into four; and the one after that.

Now this last kingdom: "...shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time." Daniel 7:23-25

Now this king that speaks "great words against the most High", is mentioned again in Daniel 11.

"21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people." Daniel 11:21-23

Now that he thought "to change times and laws" (Daniel 7:25), I understand to be a rewriting of both the bible and history. And this is why you have so much confusion about what is going on.

The old testament was written in hebrew, and the translation of that gives us "jealous God". The greek septuagint is the rewrite of the bible, and Herodotus is the rewriting of history. Which is why neither is in the original language, but in the language used at the time of the rewriting.

Now the original bible, was translated into English and became the Authorized Version. The other versions are in an ongoing process of corruption to change them from the King James version into the corrupted one. The fact that your translation doesn't match up with the greek, is a manifestation of this.