No2id

[beetzart]

I recently left two messages on the NO2ID forum about the banking system. They where posted on threads about money/banks but just disapeared after an hour or so. I know it is a bit off topic but in a way relevant to the cause. Stopping the ID card is a worthwhile effort but just a fraction of what they want to do to us. Is this the trouble with single issue campaigns; that they never want to hear about the parrallel schemes that are devised to enslave us?

I appreciate the effort NO2ID do to make aware the dangers of ID cards but cut a little slack with your censoring.

[redhead]

Hmmmmm. Controlled opposition springs to mind, if you control all sides you cannot lose the game.

Or maybe im being to skeptical :confused:

[baron von lotsov]

I probably know NO2ID better than most on this forum and I will state for the second time that they are not controlled opposition. If you post something off topic it will be deleted. This is clearly set out in the rules of the forum and there are very good reasons for it. The main one being that NO2ID exist only to campaign against ID cards and the government using databases to track your every move. If you would like to make a comment about one or other of these issues you are more than welcome to. NO2ID invites anyone to get involved as long as they are fighting these issues.

Stuff that is off topic are things like microchips and RFID, government sponsored terrorism and anything that can't be substantiated. For example if you make a wild claim about ID cards that is not commonly known about you will need to provide a case for it, a bit like presenting evidence to a court, you will need to make a solid case.

Why does NO2ID do this? Well it is all to help win the fight. Unsubstantiated disinfo is not allowed and hence the quality of info on the site is second to none. We get a lot of influential people reading it so write your comments like you were speaking to the editor of the Telegraph or something because you never know, you might be doing just that. If it were any other way the press and opposition would use this kind of thing against us in just the same way as they say David Icke claims lizards run the world. NO2ID means business and is not going to fall into that trap.

[Ian2day]

Baron you could also use that argument for the other side of it. That deviating off course is not allowed. As they don't want people that are dissenting about id cards, to find out about all the other shit that is going on. Therefore No2id is a dead end, as far as awakening people to the exploited power differential that exists goes.

no2id is one dimensional in its approach to dissent. A simple analogy of the no2id campaign would be that it is not using joined up writing to communicate to people. As its afraid that they won't be able to stay with it. Or maybe they really don't want people to be able to join things together, as who knows where that would lead.

[baron von lotsov]

So if we did what you suggest we would have a small band of people talking to themselves. As it is the NUJ has affiliated to us with a 65% vote in favour. Only by sticking to this single issue is this sort of thing possible. It works and it has worked extremely well. If you don't like it start up your own group to warn people of things that might or might not happen in 10 years time. I'd rather stop the immediate threat and thereby blocking anything that is to follow. Does this make sense?

[baron von lotsov]

Something else from their site

Quote

Fri, 8th Jun 2007 — Film: Taking Liberties
Opening of 8th June

"Taking Liberties"

written and directed by Chris Atkins

A documentary (with lots of black humour) on the loss of civil liberties in Britain since 1997. NO2ID provided advice on the ID cards section of this movie, and Phil Booth is one of the on-screen interviewees.

He's not sitting around is he?


'Controlled opposition' looks so stupid really when you see what they do.

[Ian2day]

Hmm so the National Union of Journalists has joined with no2id. Just ask them to do an audit and report back how many journos they really have left these days. I bet you could count them on two, no make that one hand. Who owns the newspapers and other media in the UK. They stopped being journalists long ago. They are just reporters of what they are told to say. They go baa baa baa all day long.

[john white]

I'd rather stop the immediate threat and thereby blocking anything that is to follow. Does this make sense?

Oh it makes perfect sense: and knowing what a granite minded fellow you are Baron I certainly don’t expect your view to change

However, NO2ID is not preventing the current threat: it is defacto covering up the actual scale and nature of that threat, and allowing what is following to thereby prepare the seeds of propoganda in the minds of the people, for fear of what the public would think if it told the truth.

Your own posts about NO2ID here have already revealed that fact: for instance when you revealed how hard you had to work to get NO2ID to say anything against the spread of CCTV cameras because the public thought they were a good idea, and the campaign managers didn’t want to appear unpopular

If anyone wants to support a campaign too afraid to tell the truth, that’s their business, but from what I can tell its already well established that NO2ID is blimmin useless, and has badly let the people down

And in case I get told how "successful" NO2ID is being just because it hobnobs with some toffs, lets just remind ourselves: ID cards Act: still an Act: ID Cards: still happening

[john white]

Something else from their site

Quote

Fri, 8th Jun 2007 — Film: Taking Liberties
Opening of 8th June

"Taking Liberties"

written and directed by Chris Atkins

A documentary (with lots of black humour) on the loss of civil liberties in Britain since 1997. NO2ID provided advice on the ID cards section of this movie, and Phil Booth is one of the on-screen interviewees.

He's not sitting around is he?


'Controlled opposition' looks so stupid really when you see what they do.

Lets see what Phil has to say. Will he deny the capabilities of RFID already exposed on the Money Programme last year? I'll bet a fiver he doesnt mention them

[baron von lotsov]

Lets see what Phil has to say. Will he deny the capabilities of RFID already exposed on the Money Programme last year? I'll bet a fiver he doesnt mention them


Well for a start the film interviewed him so I expect he answered the questions he was asked. This is not a documentary by the way, it is aimed at people who normally shy away from politics and it is to do with how they are getting ripped off. It's a comedy with a serious edge to it so its primary function is entertainment. The average Jo likes to go out and watch a film for enjoyment, this is what it is aimed at.

Phil is a superb speaker by anyone's standards and he usually comes across as a reasonable and in touch with the people on things. I saw a video NO2ID had done with him and he talked about how your everyday life will change beyond recognition. What it feels like being stopped and questioned, scanned and tracked in everything you do in your life. I guess Phil will do something similar. Honestly it is dynamite, people really listen to that kind of thing because they don't identify it with politics.

[baron von lotsov]

Your own posts about NO2ID here have already revealed that fact: for instance when you revealed how hard you had to work to get NO2ID to say anything against the spread of CCTV cameras because the public thought they were a good idea, and the campaign managers didn’t want to appear unpopular



Quote

http://www.no2id.net/news/events.php#144

Wed, 20th Jun 2007 — LIVING IN A 'SURVEILLANCE SOCIETY'
Organised by Spiked

Panel discussion: LIVING IN A 'SURVEILLANCE SOCIETY'


"Britain now has more CCTV cameras than any other country, a national identity card in the pipeline and myriad other measures of regulation and surveillance. The official Information Commissioner claims that we are 'sleepwalking into a surveillance society', while the authorities insist that their aim is to protect the public and that those who have nothing to hide should have nothing to worry about. What implications does living in a 'surveillance society' have for our public and private lives?"


Speakers:
Nick Clegg MP Liberal Democrat Shadow Home Secretary
Dolan Cummings editorial director, Institute of Ideas and author of Surveillance and the City
John Fitzpatrick director of the Kent Law Clinic at the University of Kent
Nigel Gilbert, editor of the Royal Academy of Engineering report Dilemmas of Privacy & Surveillance
Henrik Kiertzner associate director, Arup Security and Risk Consulting

Chair: Helene Guldberg managing editor, spiked
Time: 6.30pm - 8.30pm

Venue: The Commonwealth Club, 25 Northumberland Avenue, London, WC2N 5AP


Booking and more details: http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/eventindex/





Did you spot the location!

[john white]

I spotted the fact that NO2ID has acquiesced to report that an event is happening they apparently had nothing to do with organising. Wow!

[baron von lotsov]

What have you managed John?

I often find this you know, the greatest critics of other people's work are the ones that are the most incapable themselves.

[john white]

What have you managed John?

I often find this you know, the greatest critics of other people's work are the ones that are the most incapable themselves.

Oh this and that Baron, this and that

I often find, btw, that attempting to play the man and not the ball only re-enforces the validity of the mans point

[baron von lotsov]

Oh this and that Baron, this and that

I often find, btw, that attempting to play the man and not the ball only re-enforces the validity of the mans point

You are wasting your time. What you should be doing is getting the message out instead of trying to destroy other people's attempts at it. You talk about ego but this position you have spells one of the biggest ego problems I have seen. Something like if they don't do what I say I'll rubbish them and that this protection of ego is more important than the fight itself. Oh for goodness sake pull yourself together and shut up about your petty quibbles with them and get on with the job!

[john white]

You are wasting your time. What you should be doing is getting the message out instead of trying to destroy other people's attempts at it. You talk about ego but this position you have spells one of the biggest ego problems I have seen. Something like if they don't do what I say I'll rubbish them and that this protection of ego is more important than the fight itself. Oh for goodness sake pull yourself together and shut up about your petty quibbles with them and get on with the job!

OK Baron. I'll tell myself not to contemplate such thoughts when I consider how NO2ID are woefully under-representing the true situation, including censoring legitamate sourced information, and I'll certainly make sure not to bother myself discussing my views on an internet forum. Clearly, thats not what an internet forum is for

(sic)

[notaslave]

OK Baron. I'll tell myself not to contemplate such thoughts when I consider how NO2ID are woefully under-representing the true situation, including censoring legitamate sourced information, and I'll certainly make sure not to bother myself discussing my views on an internet forum. Clearly, thats not what an internet forum is for

(sic)

Pay no heed JW! If you have quibbles with no2id then continue posting them. Readers can make their own minds up. Free flow of info is what is all about.

[baron von lotsov]

If the internet is for increasing ones own ego at the expense of the liberty of the country then I say ban the Internet.

[john white]

Pay no heed JW! If you have quibbles with no2id then continue posting them. Readers can make their own minds up. Free flow of info is what is all about.

Oh yes! It is indeed

If the internet is for increasing ones own ego at the expense of the liberty of the country then I say ban the Internet.

well if "increasing ones ego" is synonymous with "disagreeing with Baron von Lotsov", then I'm fatalistically resigned to not being that surprised you just said that...

[baron von lotsov]

well if "increasing ones ego" is synonymous with "disagreeing with Baron von Lotsov"

It isn't.

Next question...