Wisdom of Native Peoples [Archive] - David Icke's Official Forums

upaava

03-06-2007, 05:39 AM

Ngungu'taota (greetings we are relatives), Auron, mari, eternalspirit, and notaslave, Tutskwa I'qatsi (Land is Life),

Kwakway, thank you for your greeting Auron. I will try my best to share with you some of what my native father shared with me which is important for all of us to understand at this special time upon our Earth. I will give some background on myself which I hope will lend credibility to the knowledge I will pass on to you: I was raised and educated within mainstream America, and later adopted into my native father's tribe. My native father was a chief priest of an ancient Native American people, and one of the keeper's of their most sacred knowledge. I spent two years with him before his death at age 102 (it is not unusual for some of his people to lead active lives beyond the age of 100). The signs now in the world, and his own dreams and visions, told him it was now time (as their prophecies had foretold) to publicly release some of the holy knowledge kept by his people through the centuries. Together, before his death, after he had taught me this information, we shared this knowledge with the world. He died in 1999. Following his death I have continued to share it in local talks, in a college Master's degree project, and on the Internet whenever I can. My journey in continuing on this mission has brought me here to speak with you as a brother-- or as "eternal spirit" has posted, as one of our world's "indigenous children," part of our circle of life upon the Earth.

Auron-- what I will share here will help with your quest to learn more of the "secrets of the universe"; for what my native father has shared with us pertains to what they call "The Law of Life" which is the operation of Nature in the Universe. There is a very ancient saying that says: "Incal malixetho"-- God is imminent in Nature; which is to say that Nature-- the natural universe/Creation-- is living. That is:

The Universe is alive. It is a living universe whose life and awareness ensouls every star and world. Within our living Universe Life is nested together from largest to smallest, life within life— the Universe is alive, so our Galaxies are alive, so our Solar Systems are alive, and so our Earth is also a living entity from whom we receive our own life. Life cannot be supported by something that is dead; if our Earth was dead, we would not have life. Every planet is a unique life supporting living being. As indigenous peoples have long been trying to explain to us (mostly a lost cause in this modern age) everything that we have, including the spirit of life itself is provided to us by our living Mother Earth! Let me stop here for now so I do not make this post too long.

mari-- very nice to meet you. Your words show wisdom and appreciation for what is occurring within upon our world now.

I'siwa, my sister, it is very good to learn to train our mind's so they serve us and are not our taskmasters. But that is only one-half of our journeys-- our internal, spiritual progress. What our native relatives are reminding us is that we also have an "outer" journey overseen by Nature through our Mother Earth, where our physical bodily forms are ever being improved, to the nearly perfected Homo sapien forms we have now. We are very near to receiving our completed, perfected forms when our Earth soon progresses to what some indigenous peoples call the Fifth World, and others Paradise, or Heaven. It is important not to look beyond the universe, to mystically transcend it; but to appreciate that Nature has long been carrying us within the universe towards a destiny designed by the Maker of it all. Wisely we will re-learn to cooperate with Nature's design. and not ignore it. :)

eternal spirit-- your words are very true! we are all indigenous children of our One Earth Mother. But some of the older members of our family have preserved truths about Nature and our existence upon the Earth that it is important for us to understand at this special time. It is this knowledge that is being returned to us now, to help us prepare for the important decisions to come.

notaslave-- the knowledge being restored to us is to help all of us "not to be slaves," but to understand where we have come from, where we are going, and the deceptions that some will foist upon us in the coming days.

umumi pam taaviningwu - may the Sun always shine upon you,
upaava

the festival spirit

03-06-2007, 06:50 AM

Greetings Elder Brother! http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/2/3D_emoticon_185.gif

Are we not brothers, Were we not created by the same Great Spirit. Let us take pride in who we are.

" An eagle soaring at dawn,
A new born speckled fawn

Peace within my heart,
the promise of a new start. "

> SOURCE < (http://www.shadowwolf.org/thanks.html)

Nice post. Something is certainly happening with the earth, and i think what you're saying is maybe true. We could all learn a lot from the native peoples around the world. I believe they have a much stronger relationship with the Earth, and they know what they are talking about.

I couldnt agree more, Indeed Welcome elder brother, I would love to hear more from your angle, and your fathers angle. Auron, It's true, but you knew that anyway ;) Don't you feel it?

I am planning to go to the Amazon sometime within the next couple of years. I want to meet the Shamans,

OOOh can I come ? lol,
I predict you may meet one (at least) very soon, maybe end of the month ?

I hope to see more of your writings on this forum. The native peoples voices need to be heard a lot more in our so called " western society "

Love and Peace.

Auron :)

Absolutely as above! Come on elder brother, lets hear it.

I'm a British indigenous human.

Now thats what I like, we indigenous brits have a wide and varied ancestry, mixing ancient knowledge from all over the world ..... it's about time we got some mention ... thanks spirit, and thanks elder brother. In a few hours I am meetiing my own elder brother, I havent seen him for 3 years... :)

Erm, looks like another book on its way, how to be the universe whenever you like. or something to that effect, gonna have to stop being inpsired so!.

Inspiring Upaava
Bring on the knowledge, there are many 'eager' students here.

Love n peace n respect

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita

Shaun

EDIT to add the greeting, I missed earlier - naawakna nihqe kyaptsita

peter19

03-06-2007, 01:34 PM

yes welcome elder brother. i think the earth could well be changeing and getting effected by what we put into her by our vibrations, and what comes out of us.
mari i agree tolles books are one of the best i have read. but its one if those you could read one sentance and if you lived it your life could change profoundly. its easy to know things intellectually but its not as easy to know it and live in that state. but tolle says something similar like when you are not createing pain for yourself you are not poluting the enviroment and the people who are around you.

mari

03-06-2007, 02:10 PM

redhead

03-06-2007, 04:06 PM

Greetings Upaava,

I have long felt a pull towards native cultures and have read extensively about them, many thanks for coming on here and sharing the knowledge that your ancestors were slaughterd for knowing over the centuries.

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita

Red

father ted

03-06-2007, 04:41 PM

Hi upaava, good to have you on board, we need more ethnic minorities and blacks/asians on this forum I think, and also to spread the word into their community, that is what new things you have learned from Icke and others' like him. As well as to give and learn your points of view.

What's your view on red elk and reptillians?

The land that I'm native to was conquered long before america and "saint" steven destroyed 99.99999999999% of the ancient and the true native culture over there, so it's good that I and other's have native indian cultures and the like, to be able to gaze upon:)

auron

03-06-2007, 08:46 PM

Auron-- what I will share here will help with your quest to learn more of the "secrets of the universe"; for what my native father has shared with us pertains to what they call "The Law of Life" which is the operation of Nature in the Universe. There is a very ancient saying that says: "Incal malixetho"-- God is imminent in Nature; which is to say that Nature-- the natural universe/Creation-- is living.

Thank you for sharing this information with us Upaava. Everything you said in your last post totally resonates with what i believe is happening to the planet.

I truly look forward to hearing more from you.

Auron :)
http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/7622/love3blowingkissji2.gif

mcmenek1

03-06-2007, 08:58 PM

The Universe is alive. It is a living universe whose life and awareness ensouls every star and world. Within our living Universe Life is nested together from largest to smallest, life within life— the Universe is alive, so our Galaxies are alive, so our Solar Systems are alive, and so our Earth is also a living entity from whom we receive our own life. Life cannot be supported by something that is dead; if our Earth was dead, we would not have life. Every planet is a unique life supporting living being. As indigenous peoples have long been trying to explain to us (mostly a lost cause in this modern age) everything that we have, including the spirit of life itself is provided to us by our living Mother Earth! Let me stop here for now so I do not make this post too long.

I'siwa, my sister, it is very good to learn to train our mind's so they serve us and are not our taskmasters. But that is only one-half of our journeys-- our internal, spiritual progress. What our native relatives are reminding us is that we also have an "outer" journey overseen by Nature through our Mother Earth, where our physical bodily forms are ever being improved, to the nearly perfected Homo sapien forms we have now. We are very near to receiving our completed, perfected forms when our Earth soon progresses to what some indigenous peoples call the Fifth World, and others Paradise, or Heaven. It is important not to look beyond the universe, to mystically transcend it; but to appreciate that Nature has long been carrying us within the universe towards a destiny designed by the Maker of it all. Wisely we will re-learn to cooperate with Nature's design. and not ignore it. :)

umumi pam taaviningwu - may the Sun always shine upon you,
upaava

Hi upaava,

Welcome to the Forum....... thank you for your very wise words......I'm looking forward to hearing more from you about ancient Native American wisdom......:)

Love
&
Peace

gordonfreeman

03-06-2007, 09:16 PM

Welcome Upaava.

I always wanted to meet a native person. Because I don't see them that much, I only see them in books and writings. But now I finally see someone here who understands what is happening on our beloved Mother Earth. Thanks for sharing, we are transcending into another dimension along with planet Earth. The dark negative forces will lose and the positive beings will bring light again to our world. Planet Earth is meant Love and Peace. Many, many people are beginning to wake up and understand the world. :)

If we don't take care Earth, then we don't live on it. Earth is the only planet in the solar system that supports Life! Mother Nature needs to cleanse herself. We need to cleanse ourselves as well. The NWO/Illuminati Reptilians will be afraid of us, once we transcend. Spiritually evolved is not hard, you will have to embrace it. Native Americans are not salvages, they are our teachers, lovers, friends, and family. I can't believe it that the evil white reptilian people make the other humans stereotypically calling the Native Americans 'salvages.' :eek: That is wrong. Natives are friends with Wolves, they are more animal and nature oriented than the city dwellers that resides in mind-control, brain-washed, hoodwinked, and manipulated. I know some native people in my high school. But, they don't talk that much, they are usually quiet.

- Gordon Freeman

auron

03-06-2007, 09:21 PM

I can't believe it that the evil white reptilian people make the other humans stereotypically calling the Native Americans 'salvages.' :eek: That is wrong. Natives are friends with Wolves, they are more animal and nature oriented than the city dwellers that resides in mind-control, brain-washed, hoodwinked, and manipulated.

Hey nice post Gordon, I liked that!

http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S112.gif

upaava

03-06-2007, 10:39 PM

Ngungu'taota (greetings we are relatives), Tutskwa I'qatsi (Land is Life),

I am very happy, to be meeting all of you.

I wanted to reaffirm, so there is no misunderstanding, that I am an adopted member of my native father's tribe, not a blood member. I was raised and educated within mainstream America, and later brought into the tribe and its ceremonies as taught to me by my native father. Thus, my background provides me with two different points of view, two different worldviews from which to see and understand the Universe: one from my upbringing in American culture; and the other in my training and experiences as a member of my native father’s people. This dual background affords me the opportunity to act as a bridge between two perspectives, hopefully to better communicate different, and sometimes conflicting ideas and values between cultures. I know this is something that my native father hoped for me-- that my understanding of modern Western culture would allow me to do better than he in communicating to them the knowledge and warnings being returned to us at this important time.

My native father did not always understand the thinking and values of the modern Western world: the traditional way of his people is dedicated in service to the Great Spirit, Earth and its life; while the modern world is often selfish and self-centered, something difficult for him to comprehend. Although the knowledge shared by my native father may not have been communicated with as much understanding of the modern Western psyche as I have, his authentic love and concern for others always shone through, bridging cultural differences more than can be accomplished by words alone. Many people let down their "walls" and considered the ideas he presented because of the genuine caring and compassion which they received from him.

I will do my best to answer all of your good questions. Some of them should first receive a foundation of ideas so that you can be prepared to receive them, and ithey will be more clearly understood; so I hope if do not mind if I go slowly and present these ideas gradually. Some of what you will be reading involves concepts which will be new to you, as they have been mostly forgotten in this age-- like our Earth being a living entity within whom we receive our life (and everything else we have).

What is being restored to us shows that it is all ONE truth-- science, religion, and our past history should connect with one another as a whole if I am explaining these concepts well.

peter19-- yes, i'tupko, our Earth is changing in preparation for an event that is part of a cycle in Nature that returns thousands of years apart and advances the life of our solar system to its next stage-- one name for this period is "Purification Time, not the end of the world, but its renewal in the next "higher" density of our system closer to the Sun. For our Earth Mother and all the life She holds, this Purification will be the final step, where those who endure with Her will receive their perfected-undying forms, which the psychologist Carl Jung once referred to as Homo maximus ("greatest man").

mari-- I understand your passion to receive something intuitively felt and sought for in your life. Like Auron, I think you will finally receive what your heart has been searching for as you rceive the knowledge our Earth Mother is now returning to us-- The truth is not for sale; it belongs to us and is now being returned as a giveaway or gift to help prepare us for the changes and turmoil to come.

red-- not everyone here will have the same understanding of Native Americans and other native peoples that you have from your studies, i'siwa. Therefore, let me give the following short introduction to set the record straight: It should be noted at the outset that North American Indians, as well as other indigenous peoples, comprise a large variety of differences in their socio-political structures, subsistence practices, and religions. The stereotypical view of Native Americans as the Plains Tribes-- the generally dark skinned horse nomads hunting buffalo— is a myth created mostly from images formed from the Wild West shows of Buffalo Bill, and from the works of artists who focused upon Plains Indians, especially George Catlin. This stereotypical view of one identity for all Indians (Pan Indianism) fostered in the Plains Indian stereotype, continued through most of the twentieth century perpetuated by movies, television, and popular fiction.

In fact, according to the general concensus of our present anthropological knowledge, North American Indians are migrated Asian peoples who subsequently adapted to the different climates, geography, and ecological conditions of the culture areas where they settled. Recent evidence from mitochondrial DNA suggests that Native Americans may have arrived following a different route; something which agrees with Native Americans whose teachings indicate they migrated from an island continent once existing in the Pacific Ocean.

Notwithstanding the differences among indigenous peoples, there is generally a common respect for nature and a living Earth, an acceptance of supernatural power, and an attitude of living in-balance with land and life. It should also be noted that within traditional native communities there are often higher religious orders who are initiated in the most sacred knowledge held by their people, knowledge not known to the general membership of the community. My native father held one of the highest positions of authority, knowledge, and responsibility in the higher religious order of his people.

father ted-- My understanding of Red Elk is that he is Heyoka (a backwards or contrary) who are given their power in a sacred way. What I know of his words are telling us to respect native prophecies; and that we are due for a great change, which agrees with what I have to share. The knowledge I pass on will be in more detail, for it has been known in great detail by my native father's people, who depend upon detail and exactness in the affectiveness of their ceremonies. Before I speak about the "egg layers" or "red eyes" as Native American legends have referred to those you speak of, it will be good to build that foundation I spoke of earlier-- then you can see them within the larger context, rather than as an isolated "piece."

mcmenek-- it is good to meet you.

gordon freeman-- as you have siad, i'tupko, our Earth is about to make a change. The change involves processes not yet discovered by maninstream science, although some are aware of the truth and have suppressed it. The globval warming we are seeing is not what scientsists believe. Something is happening deep within the Earth, at Her Core-Heart, which is slowly escalating in prpearation for our Earth Mother's birth. Our Earth is literally in labor to birth what some native peoples have cryptically called Her Mystery Egg-- they know what it is but have kept those details secret. Now it is time to clearly explain that this Egg is our Earth's Core, which will emerge (be born) from the Earth's yoni or birth canal that emerges in an Antarctic Sea. It is from the heat emerging in the Antarctic through the Earth's yoni which is affecting the Antarctic atmosphere and ocean currents, and our world weather and climate. As written in the bible:

"For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there will be famines, plagues, and earthquakes in various places. But all these things are the beginning of birth pains." (Mt. 24: 7-8, Mk. 13:8)

As our Earth Mother nears Her birth time Her laboring will intensify. As badly as we have polluted the Earth and made Her life to suffer, the Earth will soon be purified, with all of Her life raised to new heights. Those who appreciate our Earth will always work on Her behalf; but our Earth Mother follows Nature along with the rest of Creation, and will be purified and ascend to the Fifth World with or without us, no matter what Her condition may be when the time comes. However, how severe the Earth’s birth pains will be, and thus how easily our Mother makes Her transition does depend upon how we act toward the Earth and one another in the days ahead. We can help make our Mother’s laboring easier for Her and ourselves, if we will strive to be the best that we can be, helping our Earth to live together harmoniously through our prayers and actions; every heartfelt prayer and action counts towards the ease and successful transition of our Earth from one Era to the next, and are especially needed now.

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

auron

03-06-2007, 10:57 PM

That has to be the best post I've ever read on this forum. Upaava? Have you thought about writing a book on all of this?

lookfar

04-06-2007, 12:06 AM

father ted-- My understanding of Red Elk is that he is Heyoka (a backwards or contrary) who are given their power in a sacred way. What I know of his words are telling us to respect native prophecies; and that we are due for a great change, which agrees with what I have to share. The knowledge I pass on will be in more detail, for it has been known in great detail by my native father's people, who depend upon detail and exactness in the affectiveness of their ceremonies. Before I speak about the "egg layers" or "red eyes" as Native American legends have referred to those you speak of, it will be good to build that foundation I spoke of earlier-- then you can see them within the larger context, rather than as an isolated "piece."

gordon freeman-- as you have siad, i'tupko, our Earth is about to make a change. The change involves processes not yet discovered by maninstream science, although some are aware of the truth and have suppressed it. The globval warming we are seeing is not what scientsists believe. Something is happening deep within the Earth, at Her Core-Heart, which is slowly escalating in prpearation for our Earth Mother's birth. Our Earth is literally in labor to birth what some native peoples have cryptically called Her Mystery Egg-- they know what it is but have kept those details secret. Now it is time to clearly explain that this Egg is our Earth's Core, which will emerge (be born) from the Earth's yoni or birth canal that emerges in an Antarctic Sea. It is from the heat emerging in the Antarctic through the Earth's yoni which is affecting the Antarctic atmosphere and ocean currents, and our world weather and climate. As written in the bible:

"For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there will be famines, plagues, and earthquakes in various places. But all these things are the beginning of birth pains." (Mt. 24: 7-8, Mk. 13:8)

As our Earth Mother nears Her birth time Her laboring will intensify. As badly as we have polluted the Earth and made Her life to suffer, the Earth will soon be purified, with all of Her life raised to new heights. Those who appreciate our Earth will always work on Her behalf; but our Earth Mother follows Nature along with the rest of Creation, and will be purified and ascend to the Fifth World with or without us, no matter what Her condition may be when the time comes. However, how severe the Earth’s birth pains will be, and thus how easily our Mother makes Her transition does depend upon how we act toward the Earth and one another in the days ahead. We can help make our Mother’s laboring easier for Her and ourselves, if we will strive to be the best that we can be, helping our Earth to live together harmoniously through our prayers and actions; every heartfelt prayer and action counts towards the ease and successful transition of our Earth from one Era to the next, and are especially needed now.
naawakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

Greetings upaava & welcome to the forum :)

I've really enjoyed your posts, it's good to have you here & I look forward to learning much more from you...

I especially liked your quote highlighted above, very wise words there.

I have been drawn to Native American culture for quite some time & have enjoyed studying it. The important knowledge they have managed to preserve, through such horrendous tragedy, I feel is essential for our progression through these coming times. I am so grateful there are still those around who are able to pass this knowledge on. We are all part of the sacred circle & must learn how to live in harmony with our Mother Earth and all things connected. Mitakuye Oyasin (we are all related) totally sums it up for me.

I'd be interested to know which tribe your native father was from, if you don't mind telling us? It's no problem if you don't feel the need to. I've read about various tribes, but must admit a lot of it seemed to be Lakota based for some reason?

I also look forward to learning more about the "egg layers" as I didn't get to cover this aspect in much depth.

Many thanks for sharing this with us :)

Peace & love

quelyn

04-06-2007, 12:18 AM

Upaava,
What a blessing you are.........thank you!
I have been invited to participate in a purification two day long dance with native women [I think "only" ladies]. Without all my past etc. etc. what ONE thing can I be doing in preparation for this dance? Second, what ONE thing should each of us be practicing daily for the betterment of all in these times?
Namaste',
Quelyn

the festival spirit

04-06-2007, 12:56 AM

Upaava
Greetings, & thanks.

I'm one of those people that wants to know the detail of things - I'm fascinated by detail. So, silly question time: Is it known what Earth is going to 'do' or, what is going to 'happen' when She transcends? Will we have warning? Do we need to know? So many questions! Can you point me in the direction I need to know/look?

I feel like a little child who knows there's a big bag of baubles on the top shelf, just out of my reach, & I want to climb up there & grab 'em.

Thank You

I am also fascinated by detail, I have so many details to add to what I say, but I dont do it all publicly at the same time, Answers from my angle, Look inside and out!

That covers it all.

Hi upaava, good to have you on board, we need more ethnic minorities and blacks/asians on this forum I think, and also to spread the word into their community, that is what new things you have learned from Icke and others' like him. As well as to give and learn your points of view.

At first I thought how discriminatory, but for arguments sake I LOVE IT!
Maybe one day I will tell you what I thought of second.

Welcome Upaava.

I always wanted to meet a native person. Because I don't see them that much, I only see them in books and writings. But now I finally see someone here who understands what is happening on our beloved Mother Earth. Thanks for sharing,

You have made more than a hundred posts, I do not know how many posts you have read, do you ?

This statement tells me, that you have chosen not to see the MANY PEOPLE (like our elder brother) until now.

Having said that, I am so pleased you have finally found someone that 'speaks your language' OR says it from an 'angle' you can see it from.

I can't believe it that the evil white reptilian people make the other humans stereotypically calling the Native Americans 'salvages.' :eek: That is wrong. - Gordon Freeman

At first I thought how discriminatory, but for arguments sake I LOVE IT!
Maybe one day I will tell you what I thought of second.

EDIT: it's savages, but you knew that already :)

That has to be the best post I've ever read on this forum. Upaava? Have you thought about writing a book on all of this?

lol, respect, before he knows it he will be writing many books.

Greetings upaava & welcome to the forum :)

I've really enjoyed your posts, it's good to have you here & I look forward to learning much more from you...

Many thanks for sharing this with us :)

Peace & love

Likewise.

May I offer a suggestion please, upaava ?

Here it is anyway,

Please Don't just tell us here, Please let us know a few subjects that you are going to tell us about, then start threads (individually) so that we can go search for them, if you suggest titles here, we will spot them when they appear.

I just love being reminded of what I already know, from a different angle.

LPR

the festival spirit

04-06-2007, 01:07 AM

:DThat has to be the best post I've ever read on this forum. Upaava? Have you thought about writing a book on all of this?

Its sometimes really difficult being aware of everything humanly possible and everything universally possible all at the same time, I have been doing THAT since 1994, thats why sometimes things get a little jumbled up, I read that as
That has to be about the best post I've ever read on this forum. Upaava? Have you thought about writing a book on all of this?

I was gonna say is there a link to the best post you have seen on this forum. :D Explanation available if required!

LPR

EDIT: to put :D IN THE RIGHT PLACE

tru3

04-06-2007, 01:55 PM

gordon freeman-- as you have siad, i'tupko, our Earth is about to make a change. The change involves processes not yet discovered by maninstream science, although some are aware of the truth and have suppressed it. The globval warming we are seeing is not what scientsists believe. Something is happening deep within the Earth, at Her Core-Heart, which is slowly escalating in prpearation for our Earth Mother's birth. Our Earth is literally in labor to birth what some native peoples have cryptically called Her Mystery Egg-- they know what it is but have kept those details secret. Now it is time to clearly explain that this Egg is our Earth's Core, which will emerge (be born) from the Earth's yoni or birth canal that emerges in an Antarctic Sea. It is from the heat emerging in the Antarctic through the Earth's yoni which is affecting the Antarctic atmosphere and ocean currents, and our world weather and climate.

glad your here, upaava. this is the kind of knowledge that is sorely required now, imv. thanks for taking the time to share this wisdom.

i have had intimations of this for a long time, though i wouldn't have called it that. what is your understanding of the nature of this "mystery egg"?

misscpb

04-06-2007, 06:40 PM

Hi Everyone

Here are a couple of sites with regards to Native American Indian Prophecies

http://welcomehome.org/rainbow/prophecy/prophecies.html
www.crystalinks.com/native_american.html

Take Care

mk72

04-06-2007, 07:05 PM

Welcome upaava – I’m very thankful for this thread and your information. This is what we need in times like this, because this is the true knowledge that was deliberately destroyed and kept from the whole world.
Your thread resonates almost like a “knowing” inside me and I am hungry for more information. I sometimes think that this birthing process the world is going through applies to us and our conciousness. Almost as if we still need to be born. We, as humans, with limited use of our potential in sight, expression, brain function and even limited use of our DNA, are unborn! Our perspective is of a baby not knowing what’s out there and of our infinite potential.
I know that this world is just an expression of us, but it can be so much more if it is a conscious expression. And if I look at people around me I’m just so ;)thankful that it is not only up to us but that we have help to reach a new level of being. Thank you for your insight and hope to hear more on this topic. :)

wheresmyparachute

04-06-2007, 08:14 PM

Americans have a reputation for being ignorant and although I cannot deny it there may be some explanation for it.... Although it is called the "United States" the people are still very much divided in many ways. Let's face it, white people or caucasian people have run the government and controlled the country. Most white people are from mixed european backgrounds and have forgotten much of their cultural heritage and tradition. Cultural heritage is very important in establishing a foundation. It is the first chakra where we establish the essential quality and respect for substanance, food, survival, nourishment, mother, father, earth. Ritual and tradition is something that keeps these wheels in motion and builds the foundation for integrity. It is rare to find caucasian/cultural tradition in america.

Recently I wrote to a Sioux man who has a radio program to ask him a question I had about a great teacher named "White Buffalo Woman". He was not at all thrilled to talk to a white girl about this sacred subject and although I was respectful and sincere he was insulted. He proceeded to offer me his hostile feedback and opinions about white people who are stealing information from native american wisdom, writing books and exploiting native american spirituality for profit in the "new age". He said that the stupid white people continue to rape his people and steal their spirit. I admitted that perhaps I was just a stupid white person with good intentions. He wasn't softening up. I explained that I couldn't help it that I had dreams of a great being that just so happens to be a native american spiritual figure. The experience was very sacred and spiritual. Is there a a license on consciousness? I mentioned to him that perhaps people (what he referred to as new-agers) are starving for sacred information because of the fact that there are many (especially white people -in america), do not have a cultural background. Many of us did not come from an immediate background of cultural tradition. Many people are starving for tradition and ritual and perhaps that is why the so called "new age" is the way it is?? The man wasn't interested in this explanation, all he wanted to do was vent his anger at me.

After about five e-mails back and forth the conversation finally ended on a pleasant note. Although I thought I was being considerate and respectful obviously I didn't think it through well enough before I embarked on my quest. Cultural wounding is still very much alive. - stupid white girl...

upaava

04-06-2007, 09:59 PM

Ngungu'taota, Tutskwa I'qatsi,

I would like to speak to you about part of the above greeting. The second part, "Tutskwa I'qatsi," meaning "Land (our Earth) is Life," is the First and most important Spirit Law of my native people, and is important for all of us to understand. As my native father explained:

"(The) 'White man' (translated from the native word meaning “EuroAmerican” people) has many laws; but he does not know the basis of his laws. Even in the greatest courtrooms they ponder this question: ‘On what primary Law are all our laws based?’ 'White man’s' lawyers search their minds for the FIRST Law, the foundation of all their other laws….This One Law is the secret "code" of Native American people. This First Law is very simple, as it is with all Truth; always it is easy to find Truth because it is simple enough for a child to understand. The words of the First Law make no sense until you think about it; and when you think about it you can understand that all other Laws grow out of it….Before you dismiss this Law as too simple and without meaning, think about it. A Law is that which keeps order in this world:

Land and Life are One. We must Respect all Land and Life.

“Land is Life” is the First Law from which all other laws derive. This statement has several layers of meaning. The Land— our Earth— is the giver of life: She supplies us with all of our human needs, provides us a home; and through Her as a living entity, we receive our own lives. As long as we remain within Her womb-- within Her sacred Heart, Her own great Soul and Spirit— we abide within God’s design which is carrying us Home. With this knowledge we love our Mother Earth even above our own lives. The heart of these words is this: we must honor the Land as we honor our Life. We must never abuse the Land; to abuse the Land is to abuse Life. Land and Life are One! Part of living in a good way with Land and Life (growing from the First Law) is remembering to give-back for what we receive in all of our lifeways-- this can be seen as the Second Law.

A Third Spirit Law shared with us is:

We belong to the Earth: The one who gives us the Spirit of Life is the One we belong to.

The term “Mother Earth” aptly describes our relationship to Her. She has bore and nurtured us from our earliest beginnings, as She has carried us within Her life-giving womb. Thus, we are rooted within Her in a very deep and holy way, which no other world can say of us— She is our Mother; we belong to Her. Before we can progress it is necessary that we accept that we belong to our Creator. When we recognize this sacred truth, we naturally hold fast to the Earth so that nothing can ever separate us; until She Herself releases us after we are completed in the Fifth World.

In my next post I will share with you more about our Earth Mother, and how many names and words in our languages all derive from Her and Her Sacred Heart-Core, going far back in Time and history. But first let me briefly speak about our journey's upon the Earth, how we are growing and evolving within Nature's scheme/the Great Spirit's Scheme withion our Earth and Solar System.

Our growth within Creation is twofold: inner and outer— our inner conscious awareness, and our outer bodily form. Our inner spiritual progress occurs within a larger process unfolding within Nature’s plan: Nature progressively provides us newer, more evolved bodies following its own plan and schedule; while our internal, spiritual progress varies with each person, depending upon how quickly we learn to be loving and unselfish. A person must work to improve him/herself and thereby to be worthy of Heaven-Fifth World. We can accomplish this quickly or slowly, in one life, a thousand, or never. Heaven is for those who have accomplished a high degree of purification notwithstanding the weakness of their human bodies; hence, “many are called, but few are chosen.” The few who are chosen are those people who have worked hard to improve themselves. Their perfection is completed by nature’s personal involvement in their progress in the form of evolution. They are worthy of evolution and Heaven because they did the best that they could to improve themselves.

Our Solar System has its own spectrum of density, sound, and light moving from the outermost orbit, inward to the orbit of the Morning Star. Our journey to the Fifth World progresses with the evolutionary changes wrought upon us each time our Earth moves an orbit nearer the sun (following the “Sacred Path of Migration”). When our Earth soon ascends to become the new Morning Star, we will be raised into the highest density of our system, receiving our final, perfected bodies— what the psychologist Carl Jung referred to as Homo maximus (greatest [hu]man). Nature ever carries us “onward and upward” according to the Great Spirit’s design. To reach our highest state we must remain upon our mother worlds progressing stage-by-stage up each rung of the evolutionary “ladder of life.”

Auron-- I have written a manuscript summarizing all that I have learned from my adopted people. I sometimes draw from it when sharing here and on other websites. I may make this into an e-book for others to read, or have it published. Since my native father died in 1999 at age 102, I have contiunued to share this knowledge, and hope that it may reach as large an audience as possible, continuing after I am gone (I am in my elder years).

lookfar-- My adoptive tribe is a Southwestern Pueblo people. To honor the requests of those involved, I cannot be more specific so we may focus upon the meaningful information provided rather than upon the tribes providing it, and so that others may be protected from harm due to strong religious and political feelings surrounding these matters, and the problems occurring at this time between traditional and modern elements among many native peoples.

For those who dot know: the Lakota words that you shared (mitakuye oyasin) mean "all my relatives or relations," referring to our One family or Circle of Life upon the Earth and throughout Creation.

Quelyn-- Please remember that I am not a holy man, only one like yourself, a relative, a brother who walks the same road as yourself. I was taught that the greatest among us is not the one with the greatest amount of wealth, power, or knowledge; but is the one who is the greatest servant.

Respectfully, with what I know, to try and answer your question as best as I can. It is good to remember that Native peoples have different beliefs and customs among each of their cultures. With that in mind, it would be good to learn about the meaning and preparations for this dance from the people sponsoring it. It is always good to approach other cultures with respect, and to prepare by your own prayerful mental purification, and cleansing of the body, which can include diet and fasting. Some native cultures ask that you bring a food dish to their ceremonies.

You also asked "what ONE thing should each of us be practicing daily for the betterment of all in these times." First, please trust in yourself and what your own mind and heart tell you when you are calm and at peace. It is not good to "follow" others; for a true wise teacher will always bow low to you, helping you to be empowered by your own inner wisdom emanating from the divine spark within you, given by our Creator. Then, try to be the best person you can be, serving those immediately around you, your community, and our Earth in a peaceful, loving, and unselfish way. I hope these suggestions will prove helpful to you.

LPR-- unfortunately my time on the Internet is limited so that I have found that using one thread to share the native knowledge is best. Otherwise I tend to miss questions others are ;postring in other threads that I do not have time to read through and find. It is disrespectful for me not to reply to others; so I use one main thread where I can do my best for everyone. I hope that this does not offend you.

tru3-- the Mystery Egg that some native peoples have referred to is our Earth's inner Core-Heart. This is connected with the "Egg Mysteries" down through the ages, including the Hopi "Nohu Na'uyi'yta"-- "The Secret of the Hidden Egg." This is part of what has been called "The Sacred Path of Migration," which is the design within Nature (in Solar Systems) that carries life from its earliest stages, step-by-step to its completed, perfected forms in the Fifth Worlds-Heavens-Morning Stars. We can speak of this further in later posts.

Misscpb-- kwakway, thank you for sharing other Native sites. I should give you warning that many of these sites contain wrong information that has taken on a seeming importance as it has been passed on over a long period of time. Another thing to keep in mind is that some tribes have purposely given out wrong information to keep prying eyes from finding out what they have sought in the past to keep secret, and to help identify those prophesied to return who know the ways to identify themselves, from those who are false.

mk72-- it is good and natural to be searching and hungry for the truth; but also to do this in a balanced, patient way, at peace within each moment. As we are part of the Earth, as we belong to the Earth and Her great Soul-Heart-Mind, Her advancement is also our advancment as long as we stay attached to Her. She is our Mother in the fullest sense of the word; we are rooted within Her womb, body and soul; and to reach our crowning life we must never desert Her (as we will be tempted to do in the coming times). We are like caterpillars within our Earth's cocoon, where we must remain until we finally emerge as completed butterflies when She soon flies home to the place of the Morning Star-Fifth World-Heaven.

You have written: "...I know that this world is just an expression of us, but it can be so much more if it is a conscious expression..."

I'tupko or i'siwa, I know that many think as you have stated above, but this is not true. Our Earth Mother is NOT an expression of us. She is a great living being within whom "we live and breathe and have our being." This great truth has been lost to us in this age, lost and stolen. Now is the time to remember the holiness of our Mother Earth, our true Rock of Ages, and our deep and sacred connections to Her. :)

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

upaava

04-06-2007, 11:26 PM

Nakwa wheresmyparachute, Tutskwa I'qatsi,

I'siwa, I tried to answer your post, which came in after I submitted mine, by editing my post. But, when I tried editing and re-submitting, it was clipped off, and I had to re-write most of it, and submit it again without your reply! Rather than trying to edit again I am writing a separate reply here.

It is important to study what has happened to Native American and other indigenous peoples to understand why they are angry and protective of their traditional ways. In the past, governments have sought to eradicate them as institutional policy (it's in the American Congressional Record)-- genocide-- such as killing off the buffalo herds which they knew the Plains tribes needed for their existence; and when that failed natives were pressured to conform to the EuroAmerican way of life-- read, absorbed into the mainstream culture, destroying the ancient native ways (children forced into BIA schools where they had to cut their hair and never speak their native language or follow any of their native customs-- or they were beaten). The natives were forced onto tribal reservations which were/are much like concentration camps, where they must carry cards identifying themselves, causing further humiliation and loss of self esteem to new generations.

In recent decades, as native tribes have sought to restore their traditional cultures, EuroAmericans (without permission or training) have stolen and bastardized native customs and practices, often for profit, further insulting these peoples. Is is any wonder that they are so sensitive and angry about protecting and defending their lifeways from those outside of their cultures?

In sharing the sared knowledge we are restoring, my native father and I have sometimes faced these same attitudes and emotions, which my native father understood well. But a true medicine (holy) person serves all Land and Life, is a servant of our Earth and is dedicated to all peoples and life of the Earth in final analysis. Most often the holy man will take time to "confer" with the Great Spirit before deciding what to do, and then follow that guidance no matter what any person might say. Nonetheless, they also have an obligation to protect their religions and customs, and based upon the past, it is no surprise when they are angry amd cautious when faced with inquiries from people of a culture who have shown lack of sensitivity and understanding; and have proven at times to use what they are given in selfish and disrespectful ways. Respect is one of the most important of all native values.

I hope that this short discussion helps you to understand your experience, and move on in a good way. A book that you might like to read, (which deals with a white woman who faced these same attitudes as she went through the proper ceremonies to be given her own "working pipe" by a traditional medicine man) is called: I Send A Voice, by Evelyn Eaton. I recommend it for helping you to better understand the present day situation, which includes those non-Indians who continue to rape Native American cultures.

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

quelyn

05-06-2007, 12:46 AM

Upaava,
Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. Yes, I now feel more connected to this upcoming Purification Long Dance. Respect, yes, indeed I wholeheartedly will honor everything in this new experience.
You are a blessing!
Namaste'
Quelyn

pierre_jean

05-06-2007, 12:54 AM

Hello upaava !
I like much your interventions and the wisdom of your message. I found a website which speaks about the declaration with UN General Assembly of a Hopi delegation in January 1993.
Here end of this declaration :

(Thomas and Oren Lyons held up a picture of a large rock drawing
in Hopiland)
This rock drawing shows part of the Hopi prophecy. There are two
paths. The first with technology but separate from natural and
spiritual law leads to these jagged lines representing chaos. The
lower path is one that remains in harmony with natural law. Here we
see a line that represents a choice like a bridge joining the
paths. If we return to spiritual harmony and live from our hearts,
we can experience a paradise in this world. If we continue only on
this upper path, we will come to destruction.

Its up to all of us, as children of Mother Earth, to clean up this
mess before it's too late.

http://nativenet.uthscsa.edu/archive/nl/9301/0164.html

I hope that everyone will hear the message of the elder...

wheresmyparachute

05-06-2007, 01:31 AM

You have beautiful writing and language. I have always felt that I had a fairly good understanding of many cultures and have respected and honored the various traditions. I've had wonderful experiences with Navaho people and have never come across anything negative prior to the discussion with the radio guy. It ended on a positive note and I thought it was a good lesson for me ... Thank you for the book referral!

the festival spirit

05-06-2007, 02:13 AM

the festival spirit

05-06-2007, 02:22 AM

Ngungu'taota, Tutskwa I'qatsi,

LPR-- unfortunately my time on the Internet is limited so that I have found that using one thread to share the native knowledge is best. Otherwise I tend to miss questions others are ;postring in other threads that I do not have time to read through and find. It is disrespectful for me not to reply to others; so I use one main thread where I can do my best for everyone. I hope that this does not offend you.

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

Brother, trust me, I know the seriousness of your teachings, if you could find the time, to visit> THIS POST < (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=52126&postcount=1802) on the

> The forum members photo thread (Reveal yourself) < (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2257&page=46)

you will see wisdom on The Art of Not Being Offended

If you go and see the whole thread, you will spend hours laughing.

I hope one day you find teh time. (and I just cant be arsed editing and re-editing my posts, so sometimes they look crap and others they dont :)

the festival spirit

05-06-2007, 02:25 AM

Ngungu'taota, Tutskwa I'qatsi,

Auron-- I have written a manuscript summarizing all that I have learned from my adopted people. I sometimes draw from it when sharing here and on other websites. I may make this into an e-book for others to read, or have it published. Since my native father died in 1999 at age 102, I have contiunued to share this knowledge, and hope that it may reach as large an audience as possible, continuing after I am gone (I am in my elder years).
naawakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

lol I told ya! :)

auron

05-06-2007, 02:30 AM

What a guy eh? I see his wise words reaching millions around the world.

And they will! ;)

Brother, trust me, I know the seriousness of your teachings, if you could find the time, to visit> THIS POST < on the

> The forum members photo thread (Reveal yourself) <

you will see wisdom on The Art of Not Being Offended

Yes! I remember reading that post by Montag. A fine post indeed.

Auron :)

tru3

05-06-2007, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by upaava
Ngungu'taota, Tutskwa I'qatsi,

Auron-- I have written a manuscript summarizing all that I have learned from my adopted people. I sometimes draw from it when sharing here and on other websites. I may make this into an e-book for others to read, or have it published. Since my native father died in 1999 at age 102, I have contiunued to share this knowledge, and hope that it may reach as large an audience as possible, continuing after I am gone (I am in my elder years).
naawakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

if you need someone to edit or proof, i'd be honored to assist. :) i was an english lit major with a 3.8 gpa in my program.

this is the right time to publish, upaava. the world is ripe for this wisdom, enough of the population to ignite a seachange in our world view. in fact, i see lecturing for you, with the power of the oral tradition behind you. that's what i see, anyway, take it for what you will. :o

upaava

05-06-2007, 08:40 AM

Ngungu'taota, Tutskwa I'qatsi,

Here is that post I promised dealing with our Earth Mother (feminine), and Her Earth Heart Core (masculine) going far back into history. Remember that the knowledge preserved by many indigenous peoples teaches us that the Great Spirit ensouls every material part of Creation (mitakuye oyasin); and the most imminent expression of the Godhead is in our own world, our living Earth Mother. From my ms:

In the words of religious scholar Maarten Vermaseren:

The Earth Mother is the mysterious power that awakes everything to life. All comes from the Earth and all ends in the Earth. The Earth produces all things and then enfolds them again. The Earth Mother is the beginning and End of all life.

After centuries of revising canonical books, nearly every trace of Earth Mother and her Immaculate Heart has been removed from Christian literature, but to the scholarly and discerning eye the Divine Earth and her Immaculate Core/Heart are very present. Gnostic scriptures cast off the revised cannon and reverted to the older texts; accordingly, “Eve- Earth Mother” not only created “Adam- Core Son” but Adam was the very soul “within his mother.” Some Gnostic texts reverse this order and say that “Eve- The Virgin” is the soul within “Adam- the Father.” Either way they understood the concept of a God within a God, i.e., the Heart of the Earth within the Mother.

The distinction between Earth Mother and her Sacred Heart is confusing only because “Earth” and “Heart” are derivations of the same word; the “Earth” takes her name from her Sacred “Heart,” the Earth-Core (move the first letter of “Heart” to the end). Among the many names of the Earth Core is “Aeon,” Father of Time. Over time (over the “Aeons”) the Earth and her Heart/Core have been worshipped as one God, or as two separate (and yet inseparable) Gods; when the Father Sun is included they are worshipped as a Trinity. As Kor/Aeon (and a multitude of different names), the Earth Core is “God the Son,” as Ceres and Kore (and again, a multitude of different names) the Earth Core is “The Holy Virgin” and “The Immaculate Heart” of the Earth Mother.

Some early belief systems endow the Earth Heart with the masculine gender and revere Him as Father, some refer to the Earth Heart as her Daughter, others as her Son. The Earth Heart is revered as both a holy Infant and as “Aeon,” “The Ancient of Days.” In every case the Core/Heart is worshipped as God within God. As the Greek Virgin “Kore” the Earth Heart/Soul is the Inner Soul-daughter of “Demeter” which literally translates into “Earth Mother.” The Core is sacred to the Hopi people, which is why the Grand Canyon is generally a sacred place to Pueblo cultures— it is the nearest place whose depths approach the Sacred Heart-Core at the center of the Earth.

There is one “Hidden One” (God), and He goes by many names; we invoke Him by his Egyptian name when we pray. We do this because Moses, when he taught us how to worship in the desert, addressed God by the name he knew, Amen, the Hidden One, hidden in the womb of our Mother Earth. With research the most devout Christian and Jew will discover that the name they invoke to this day, at the end of their prayers, is that of Ammon-Amen, the Hidden God of the Egyptians, the Hidden God of the Christians, the Sacred Heart of our Mother Earth, Her Core, Masau to the Hopis. The center of the Earth is the cave wherein dwells (the masculine) God who is the Core-Heart of our Mother (feminine). With this belief, when we start a prayer, we can do so with knowledge that whether we say "God,"
"Jehovah," "Shiva," "Allah," “Masau,” or “Amen,” our prayers are received by our Father, who is the Heart of our Mother.

Modern science still refers to the “Earth Heart” by the old name, "Core." "Ab" was the Egyptian word for “Earth Heart,” and the same word, “Ab,” meant “Earth Soul.” The “Ab” was also the human soul that would be weighed in the balances of “Maat” after death, in the Earth Mother’s underground Judgement Hall. “Maat”, the Earth Mother as the personification of “Truth” and “Justice,” takes her name from “Ma,” the “mother” syllable of Indo-European languages, worshipped in itself as the fundamental name of the Earth Goddess. The “All-Seeing-Eye” in the Earth Belly was sometimes represented by a dot (fetus) inside a pregnant belly. And the same hieroglyph was used for the name of “Amen,” the “Hidden God” who dwelt in the Earth Womb/Heart. Ma-ma means both “mother’s breasts” and “mother” in almost all languages. The Egyptian Book of the Dead addresses prayers to “The Heart of my Mother,” “The Heart of Transformations,” “The Source of Rebirth.”

Mohammed and his followers were worshippers of Demeter and her heart/daughter Kore; and the Moslem scriptures he handed down (“Kor an”) bear testament to his worship of Earth Mother and her Sacred Heart to this day. Variations of Kore include Kor, Kar, Ker, Car, Qar, Q’re, Cara, Kher, Cere, Ceres, Core, Cora, Kora, Kaur, Kauri all names for the Sacred Heart/Soul of Earth Mother. “Karma” is a combination-word of “Kar” (Kore) with “ma” (mother). “Karma” is the maternal heart-power with which “Kauri-Ma” rules over human destiny. The word “destiny” in itself is derived from the words “de” (Earth) and “stiny” (stone). The Earth’s “Law of Karma” is that individual evolution must be worked out by a series of reincarnations (re-in-CAR-nations) through the turning of the great wheel of time, the “Karmic Wheel.”

The French word for heart is “coeur,” in Latin heart it is “cor,” and in Spanish heart is “Corazon.” All these words are derived from “Core,” the Sacred Earth Heart, the “Sacra Cardiac” of Earth Mother. Karnak in Egypt and Carnac in Brittany were sites of gigantic temples over 5,000 years ago; these temples were dedicated to “Kar” or “Kore” the “Sacred Earth Heart.” France had similar temples in Kerlescan, Kercado, Kermario. The word “Kermario” (Ker mari o) combined the Vigin “Kore” with her Divine Mother “Mari.” “Mari” is the basic Chaldean name of the Earth. The Chaldeans also called her Marratue; the Jews called her Marah, the Persians Mariham. Other ancient Earth names with the same root are Marian, Miriam, Mariamne, Myrrhine, Myrtea, Myrrha, Maria, and Marina.

Every day English is resonant with words derived from the Sacred Earth Heart/Core/Mind/Womb. When we use such words as carol (Christmas carol), care, car, cart, carry, card, coral, cord (umbilical cord) and cardinal, we unconsciously hymn the Earth-Heart. Even the humble carpet is so-named for being underfoot, as is the Core. The Earth Mother and her Sacred Heart is ever-present on our tongues. She is unconsciously summoned in the middle of words such as sacred; and after death she lingers on in such as “corpse” and “carcass” when we “carry” her name into the grave (grove) where we await “growth.” The body of Christ is “Corpus Christi,” with “Chri” being a derivative of “Core,” as is “Krs” in “Krsna.” As mentioned earlier, the word “Earth” is itself a derivative of “Heart.”

nawaakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

king

05-06-2007, 09:11 AM

This thread is opened for the discussion of the knowledge and wisdom preserved by traditional Native American and other indigenous peoples, including North American Indians, such as the Lakota, Navaho (Dineh), Hopi, or any of the other more than 500 recognized tribes, as well as African, South American, and Australian (Aboriginal) peoples whose sacred knowledge goes far back in time.

Some the knowledge which has heretofore been kept secret is now being released to us by native elders so that our world can be prepared for the coming changes which are not yet understood in this modern age.

Elders from the higher religious orders of some Native American tribes (Mayan and Hopi among others) indicate that our Solar System is about to go through a cycle which returns in Nature thousands of years apart, and is responsible for the dimly remembered cataclysms rent upon the Earth and other worlds of our system in the past. These elders tell us that this process is purposeful (as Nature itself is informed with the Great Spirit's Purpose), and has long been carrying us within the Great Spirit's universal plan for life in the natural universe. We are told that our Earth Mother is about to ascend to the highest place within our system, and that those who endure with Her will receive their crowning life in the Fifth World-Paradise-Heaven, which our Earth will soon become.

What is being restored to us means that our universe is (ensouled by) a great Living Being (Great Spirit, God, etc.) and that Nature has long been carrying us upon our living Mother Earth toward a destiny which is now very close at hand. According to what elders are returning to us, this process and what we have the opportunity to soon receive, is the single most important subject to understand (known in the past, mostly lost in this age). All other knowledge pales in comparison-- focussing upon other subjects (true or not) can even be used to mislead and distract us from understanding what is truly happening, and the important choices we all soon have to make, which will either progress us forward to the Fifth World, or uproot us from our Earth and our hoped for completions in the Heavenly paradise our Earth will soon become.

Humbly, and respectfully, I now open this thread for your further discussion.

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita - with love and respect,
upaava - your (elder) brother

hi upaava

i always had strong respect and admiration for Native Americans.
i think that your ancestors had such a wisdom, to live together with the nature, to appreciate and share gift of life that nor many other people
were able to even understand.
When i hear some of those elders talk -- i can connect through the heart as if i was a Native American.

wisdom is in simplicity, when you connect your heart with all around you and above you, then you feel whole.

what is better way than have a direct connection with plants, animals, people and of course the creator/power of universe?

no religion, no politics, no police, no lawyers.... no B.S.
just simple truth.

i cringe when i think what white man has done, not only to your people but all other life on planet.

hopefully, white man will do the right thing this time and grow up spiritualy, becuse the way i see it -- that is why he is doing what he is doing -- he does not have the connection to his spirit.

welcome to the forum!

truthsupplier

05-06-2007, 02:03 PM

O`siyo upraava,

Respecting the council of a Sitting Elder, this hollow bone acknowledges the devotion and respectfully requests permission to learn. The snow on my chin belies the acquired rings on this old branch.

I too can claim only a Metis association, though founded on teachings and sharings which led me to serve my local lodge as was needed... Firehawk and doorkeeper position have been gifted this old bear. I do not bear cannupa, as I am unworthy. I do however offer smoke in welcome to an assemblage with good intent, and willingness to learn (as opposed to argue over) that which might aid them walking their talk.

In my "attempt" to merge my "information" and gracefully avoid Spirituality issues as they seem to be misunderstood regularly as Religious Posture.

Having watched my insignicant posts be buried as so much drivvel, I tend to now maintain "lurker" status... Still,

Welcome Brother.

Be well (in body, mind and Spirit)
Do well (in conceived opinion and the projection of same)
Respect all which you did not create... Stewardship is a privilege, not a job or duty one might fail.

Mitakuye Oyasin, know Wakan Tanka will show as it is required. Not my decision nor yours... with permission, I would share a few of the gems which have aided my walking my talk. Sgi WaDo for the audience...

wayinktelo (roughly translated as "come to raise a voice", from the 23rd Pipe Song)
aka
truthsupplier
aka
will bates (no capital letters, no corporate fiction)

the festival spirit

05-06-2007, 02:18 PM

This is the last time I will reply to this thread, IF you (anybody at all) want to reply to me about this please do it by private message on this forum,

I think upaava wants the thread to tell his message and also he doesnt need any help editing anything, he may also be a white man, as he has stopped replying to people individually, ..........

LISTEN TO WHAT HE HAS SAID!

anyone who replies to me on here is ignorant.

(Auron resist the temptation ;)

truthsupplier

05-06-2007, 02:40 PM

WORDS FROM OUR LIVING ELDERS

Some time ago I wrote about our connectedness to the trees and plants and how we are similar to them in the manner of our birth and development. I was looking at the great Elm tree in my yard a few days ago and a few more thoughts along these lines came to me and I thought I would share them with you.

When a seed from a tree, or a plant, falls to the ground it puts down a tap root deep into the earth where it is not only anchored in place, but also draws nourishment for it's continued growth. Eventually, as the stalk begins to grow, new rootlets spread out from this tap root gaining more nourishment from the soil and furthering the growth and development of the tree. None of this is visible since it happens below ground and out of sight. However the nourishment is fed from the root system up to the developing stem and branches, eventually reaching all parts of the tree.

If the roots are many and spread over a wide area, and if the soil is rich in nutrients, the tree will flourish and strive to reach it's potential as a tree and to fulfil its purpose. If on the other hand, the root system is small, or the soil depleted of nourishment, the tree's growth and development will be stunted and the tree will never reach it's potential - indeed it may perish with the onslaught of the vagaries of it's environment.

I see a correlation here with people and their development. If we are firmly rooted in our culture, and have a strong faith in Creator, then we are anchored firmly through our belief systems and we can draw spiritual nourishment, strength and wisdom from our cultural teachings. This ensures that our beliefs are strong and because of this we will grow and develop into a strong and vibrant being - striving to reach our personal potential. If on the other hand, we are not firmly rooted, and if our association with our culture is weak, then we lack that stabilizing influence and we have little or nothing to draw upon to ensure our development.

We develop and grow in accordance with the beliefs we hold about ourselves and our world. These are internal aspects of our being and are unseen, just as the influence of the root system of the tree is also unseen, but is of vital importance to the survival of the individual - either person or tree.

The tree develops and grows from the inside. What is under the bark determines what the tree will ultimately become. We are the same. We grow and develop in accordance with our beliefs - from the inside. What we have inside of us - our personal beliefs - determines what we will ultimately become.

The trunk of the tree ultimately divides, forming branches and each branch further divides adding new ones to the tree structure. This continues out to the smallest terminal twigs which bear the leaves. Near the trunk, the branches are large and strong giving support for the further branches which they generate. As one looks farther out on the limbs, away from the trunk, we see that the supporting branches get smaller and smaller until, at last, we come to the twigs and their leaves.

I see this situation as being similar to our extended family. If we see an individual person to be the main trunk, then the branches that first form would represent our offspring. These branches depend upon the nourishment that we provide to ensure their growth and development. It is our moral and ethical strength, as individuals, that determines the degree of development and growth that our offspring will attain. If our support is strong, and we have provided physical, emotional and spiritual nourishment, then our offspring will pass these attributes on to their offspring. Each succeeding branch depends upon the strength and support given by the preceding branch. This continues out to the farthest reaches of the tree structure. The same holds true with our families. Our descendents many times removed, will bear the influences which we imparted to our nearest offspring and this will ultimately determine what our family "tree" will become.

It is important to remember that we who are the main trunk, influence the development of the farthest leaf. These leaves, in their turn, contribute to the development and survival of the tree as a whole. Each branch, twig and leaf, plays a vital part. All are part of the whole. Remove any one branch, or twig, and we alter the ultimate shape and form of the structure, detracting from the potential that the tree can attain. The same holds true with our families. Every individual is connected to, and is part of, the whole family. The actions of any one individual affects the whole family structure. If any one individual fails to receive support and nourishment from his family, then he will not reach his potential and this affects the potential of the family structure as a whole.

The teachings of our Ancient Ones tell us that we are all connected. We are all part of the whole. The actions of one affect all. I see this to be true.

Walk in harmony and brotherhood and may Creator grant you peace.

© GreyWolf 2001

synergy777

05-06-2007, 04:52 PM

the natives have many wise words, i respect their culture. however the when the student is ready, the teachers appears, is well applicable to the few. most of, us, including me have to do it solo, no teachers, no guides (well apart from the web), no creator etc (if you see him/her, talk to him/her, let him know about me, lol, i think i pissed him/her off about 20 years ago, lol). i think it is sometimes wrong to say things like these, as they instill false hope.

some of of us have been on the outside looking in to this wonderful relationship/connection to the creator, maybe we are the outcastes. although just beacuse we feel no connection, does not mean we will sell out and not represent/support the creator.we will still be loyal, maybe we are beyond redemption? all i am saying some of us have no strict religion, spiritual stuff, some of us are on a data based existence/connection.

truthsupplier

05-06-2007, 07:53 PM

THE GENTLE ART OF BLESSING

On awakening, bless this day, for it is already full of unseen good which your blessings will call forth; for to bless is to acknowledge the unlimited good that is embedded in the very texture of the universe and awaiting each and all.

On passing people in the street, on the bus, in places of work and play, bless them. The peace of your blessing will accompany them on their way and the aura of its gentle fragrance will be a light to their path.

On meeting and talking to people, bless them in their health, their work, their joy, their relationships to Creator, themselves, and others. Bless them in their abundance, their finances… bless them in every conceivable way, for such blessings not only sow seeds of healing but one day will spring forth as flowers of joy in the waste places of your own life.

As you walk, bless the city in which you live, its government and teachers, its nurses and street sweepers, its children and bankers, its priests, rabbis, imams and ministers.

The minute anyone expresses the least aggression or unkindness to you, respond with a blessing: bless them totally, sincerely, joyfully, for such blessings are a shield which protects you from the ignorance of their misdeed, and deflects the arrow that was aimed at you.

To bless means to wish, unconditionally, total, unrestricted good for others and events from the deepest wellspring in the innermost chamber of your heart: it means to hallow, to hold in reverence, to behold with utter awe that which is always a gift from the Creator. The person who is hallowed by your blessing is set aside, consecrated, holy, whole.

To bless is yet to invoke divine care upon, to think or speak gratefully for, to confer happiness upon - although we ourselves are never the bestower, but simply the joyful witnesses of Life's abundance. To bless all without discrimination of any sort is the ultimate form of giving, because those you bless will never know from whence came the sudden ray of sun that burst through the clouds of their skies, and you will rarely be a witness to the sunlight in their lives.

When something goes completely askew in your day, some unexpected event knocks down your plans and you too also, burst into blessing: for life is teaching you a lesson, and the very event you believe to be unwanted, you yourself called forth, so as to learn the lesson you might balk against were you not to bless it. Trials are blessings in disguise, and hosts of angels with gifts follow in their path. To bless is to acknowledge the omnipresent, universal beauty hidden to material eyes; it is to activate that law of attraction which, from the furthest reaches of the universe, will bring into your life exactly what you need to experience and enjoy.

When you pass a prison, mentally bless its inmates in their innocence and freedom, their gentleness, pure essence and unconditional forgiveness; for one can only be prisoner of one's self-image, and a free man can walk unshackled in the courtyard of a jail, just as citizens of countries where freedom reigns can be prisoners when fear lurks in their thoughts.

When you pass a hospital, bless its patients in their present wholeness, for even in their suffering, this wholeness awaits in them to be discovered.

When your eyes behold a man in tears, or seemingly broken by life, bless him in his vitality and joy: for the material senses present but the inverted image of the ultimate splendor and perfection which only the inner eye beholds.

It is impossible to bless and to judge at the same time. So hold constantly as a deep, hallowed, intoned thought that desire to bless, for truly then shall you become a peacemaker, and one day you shall, everywhere, behold the very face of the Creator.

~~~~~ Author Unknown ~~~~

synergy777

05-06-2007, 08:17 PM

so no explanation, proof, just spirtual feel good stuff, a pancea for the ego.

lets go back to chanting, thinking good, creating reality with our thoughts, and anyother thing that relies on blind faith. i am sick to the back teeth of this stuff, its nonsense, although uplifting, it serves no real pragmatic purpose. this stops us from getting tangible, factual stuff.

i tell you what, chant, say a prayer for me, lets see what happens... nothing, nada, just energy stealing elite crap. see in this world, brains, money, power, love are what change things, the creator don't help, while we wait for the saints etc, we waste time.

its up to us to get things done. you could do good all your life, help and still get no love/grace etc from the creator. thats why i say irrespective of the creator, do what you think is right, do it because you know doing good makes you feel good, happy, not because of making him/her happy, saving your arse/soul etc. be real to yourself, you cannot fool the creator.

one love, peace

upaava

05-06-2007, 08:35 PM

Ngungu'taota, Tutskwa I'qatsi,

I would like to amend two things given earlier: first, I do see now that the person speaking earlier of "our world being an expression of us," was meaning "the condition our world is in," and not the Earth Herself. This was my misunderstanding. Your words were very true. The Hopi say that our world is now koyaanisqatsi, which means, "life out-of-balance" with the sacred and spiritual being devalued and lost. This is the biggest reason we find the world as we do now-- an expression of how we have lost the sacred and become attached to the material.

The other thing I wished to say is that the quote I gave from the bible about the Earth's "birth pains," or "birth pangs" is only in certain translations where it has been translated correctly.

I will always do my best to reply to everyone who addresses me here. If I do not, it is because I have somehow missed your question-- I try to read through looking for questions, but sometimes these eyes miss something.

pierre jean-- thank you for sharing about the Hopi speaking in the United Nations in 1993. This was part of The International Year for the Indigenous People, where many different tribes were given the opportunity to speak in the U.N. General Assembly. Oren Lyons, who introduced the Hopi speaker, was himself Faith Keeper of the Iroquois (Six Nations).

Before answering the rest of those who have spoken to me here, I would like to comment upon the Hopi Prophecy Rock that you presented in your post; for this will help us to understand the meaning of our present Purification Time, and the important choices we will each have to make before it is over.

One place where these coming choices have been depicted is in the ancient stone carving found on the Hopi reservation you alluded to. The Hopi are one of the most ancient people on Earth. Their village of Old Oraibi in northeast Arizona, U.S.A., is recognized as the oldest continually occupied community on the North American continent. Upon the Black Mesa where they live, there is an ancient petroglyph, sometimes called the Hopi Prophecy Rock, a prophetic road plan which describes two different paths for life. The upper road ends in a zig-zag line which trails away to oblivion, while the lower road goes on to life and abundance following the birth of a Mystery Egg, in what they call the Fifth World (some tribes number differently). Before the upper road zigzags to its end, there is a “return path” leading down to the lower road, a final chance for us to choose our Earth and the coming Fifth World. The Hopi “road plan” indicates that some people will choose the wrong road, a path which will soon be offered to all of us in the world.

The upper road, which leads to oblivion, shows several figures whose heads are placed directly on their shoulders (no necks). This upper road is the road which leads to becoming those who must live in darkness (the "red eyes" or "cold blooded egg layers"). These were all people like us at one time, but the road that they chose-- the same choice each of us will soon be lured to make-- led them to this devolved condition. The lower road is the one we are on now, as we endure with our Mother Earth and the time given to us here with Her, where we can live, die, and evolve as designed for us by the Great Spirit in Nature.

The lower Road, which is the one we have while we remain with our Mother Earth, progresses us forward to the Fifth World-Heaven; while those who choose the upper Road go in a backwards direction. as shown on the Prophecy Rock (which has been carbon dated to between 10 and 50,000 years old).

The knowledge being restored to us is to help us prepare for these choices, so we will make them wisely and not lose the wonderful gift which awaits us with our Earth when She is renewed at the end of this final Purification Time.

These warned of choices will arrive unexpectedly, with the sudden announcement of a new discovery about Time, which native peoples have long known about in their honoring of the Directions (Time as Direction). We are NOT meant to use this new Time, because it removes us bodily from our Earth and the Great Spirit's design in Nature, taking us to the Fifth World (our covenant).

This Time Structure has always been known and used secretly by some members of secret organizations to gain weath and power, but has so far been suppressed from public awareness. Soon they will make a great worldwide announcement touting this discovery as wonderful, where we will be lured by very advanced technology and the promise of extremely long life which, elders warn us, will compel many, many to abandon our Earth into this new Time Frame.

The lures are traps meant to ensnare us for their best interests, not ours. They will use lies and deceptions to entrap us, with untrue scientific pronouncements causing us to fear remaining with our Earth, meant to drive us into their "Time Zone." When you see this come to pass, run from it; do not even look at this place! Hold fast to our Mother Earth, for to go into this unnatural Time Frame (the knowledge "of good and evil" we have been warned not to "eat") will uproot us from our Earth and the Crowning life She soon takes us to-- to abandon our Earth into this forbidden Time Zone will be treading the upper Road on the Hopi Prophecy Rock leading to oblivion. I have given you a lot to think about and consider; so let me stop here for now.

wheresmyparachute-- I am happy that your radio discussion ended on a good note. Perhaps if you had more time to speak with the elder, and he to know you better, there could have been a better exchange. Let me know if you are able to find and read the book-- it may be out of print, but should be available through "Bookfinder" online.

the festival spirit-- thank you for showing me the "reveal yourself" thread where many people have shown such a good sense of humor. :)

tru3 & Auron-- thank you for your kind words about my writing and speaking to others. What will come is according to the will of the Great Spirit in our Earth Mother. I know that they will direct me in the best way, if I set myself aside and ask to follow their direction.

king-- thank you for your greeting. Ta'a, yes i'tupko, it is good to feel oneself connected to the rest of life and to then act as part of our one circle. Native peoples do have their own religions, some being very ancient. Their ceremonies are part of their religions, some of which help our world to be in balance, so we can live together in an harmonious way.

will bates-- my brother who comes in a respectful way. I am very happy for you to be here and share with us some of the lifeways of your people. This thread is about the Wisdom of Native Peoples. Perhaps, if you wish, you can explain the meaning of your duties as "firehawk" and "doorkeeper" (if I am understanding you correctly in inipi ceremony), and of the meaning and importance of the pipe (cannunpa) in native ceremony. If you have very much to say, perhaps it would be best to open your own thread so that we can focus here upon the message I have to give, and in your thread, what you have to share. In that case I will be happy to come as a respectful visitor to your forum and learn from you.

synergy777-- my brother, I hear some sadness in your words. I hope that you will become stronghearted again on your journey. You are always welcome here to just read if you wish. Your own road will be respected.

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

tru3

06-06-2007, 01:50 AM

These warned of choices will arrive unexpectedly, with the sudden announcement of a new discovery about Time, which native peoples have long known about in their honoring of the Directions (Time as Direction). We are NOT meant to use this new Time, because it removes us bodily from our Earth and the Great Spirit's design in Nature, taking us to the Fifth World (our covenant).

This Time Structure has always been known and used secretly by some members of secret organizations to gain weath and power, but has so far been suppressed from public awareness. Soon they will make a great worldwide announcement touting this discovery as wonderful, where we will be lured by very advanced technology and the promise of extremely long life which, elders warn us, will compel many, many to abandon our Earth into this new Time Frame.

thanks for sharing this. it's hugely significant. it's been my belief for a long time that one of the effects of a microchipped population is to disrupt the awakening process. the effect of electromagnetic, even possibly tachyonic distortion to the human nervous and electrical system. if earth's resonance is changing, we as individual must reclaim the right to our own energy field.

not only that, but being able to "jack into" cyberspace is just around the corner, folks. the days of "minority report" are a lot closer than we think. the perils to consciousness don't end after 2012, imv.

The lures are traps meant to ensnare us for their best interests, not ours. They will use lies and deceptions to entrap us, with untrue scientific pronouncements causing us to fear remaining with our Earth, meant to drive us into their "Time Zone." When you see this come to pass, run from it; do not even look at this place! Hold fast to our Mother Earth, for to go into this unnatural Time Frame (the knowledge "of good and evil" we have been warned not to "eat") will uproot us from our Earth and the Crowning life She soon takes us to-- to abandon our Earth into this forbidden Time Zone will be treading the upper Road on the Hopi Prophecy Rock leading to oblivion. I have given you a lot to think about and consider; so let me stop here for now.

well said. hold fast. :)

upaava

06-06-2007, 08:18 AM

Ngungu'taota, Tutskwa I'qatsi,

tru3-- i'tupko, the use of the microchipping will be to control us after the new space-time is set up for use and many have chosen to desert our Earth into this "new" time. Let me speak more about this ancient Time structure and those who have died there to become the "red eyes" we have spoken about earlier.

H.G. Wells once wrote a story about a machine built to travel in Time. But it doesn’t require a special machine to turn our backs on God and Heaven. Not only is time travel possible, it has been happening all around us; but the means to do so has been kept a dark secret. One group hides it from us for our own good because it is the ultimate temptation leading us away from Heaven. Others keep it a secret for vast financial gain and political power. Long ago only the Levites (the Hebrew priestly order) had the knowledge of time travel (space-time), but it was wrenched from their hands. There are people-- a handful of the very rich and famous, the members of certain secret societies, members of the Bohemian Club, political leaders-- who have crossed the threshold of real-time into space-time. These people have hand signals and items of jewelry that allow them to distinguish one another from among those persons who have not gone into the space-time realm.

The new Time System will not be read as seconds, minutes, and hours as we have now, but as degrees, and seconds of degrees, as on a compass (direction). Every "moment" in Time will be a "point/place" in space, hence, the term "space-time," (also: Purgatory, Arcadia [“et in Arcadia ego”], Seventh Heaven, etc.). Every "moment" in Time will be an "event" in space, in other words, it won't be a "nanosecond" it will be an "incident" (event). Space-time is a misnomer, because there is no “time” in space. “Time” unfolds on, and near to, the body of a planet. As one moves further from the surface of a planet, so “time” becomes weaker and weaker until, beyond the effect of the planet’s gravity, “time” ceases to exist. Thus, “time” does not exist in outer space. The word “space-time” really means “an absence of time.” Another way to conceive of “space-time” is “timelessness.” Timeless space is not waiting around to be discovered by a human physicist, it has long since been “discovered” and heavily exploited.

Regardless of how wonderful the new Time reality may at first appear to be, its end is darkest misery. We are protected from the inevitable, terrible consequences of living in another time-frame by our covenant with God. As described in the Judeo-Christian bible, and in other world scripture, we are covenanted (contracted) to remain in the genetic time-frame that was especially established for us by God when He/She created us. Those who recognize the normalcy of death accept it without fear, understanding it leads us forward toward a goal God/Nature intends for us. Those in this age who have forgotten this truth, fear death, and are those who are likely to be seduced by the promise of extraordinary longevity in the new Time, breaking their covenants with God by “eating” of this forbidden knowledge.

(Luke 21:35-36)
For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The time frame we live in is ordained by God; it is very sacred; and it is the only route to Heaven. While we remain in our own time frame we are still in the Divine Potter’s kiln. This world is not a happy, happy place, but we are not in it for long. We don’t have a very long life span in our time frame and once it’s over we have the promise of a perfect body, and Heaven to come. The seductive fruit of space-time tempts us with prolonged life and high technology; but if we are ensnared by this trap, then the greatest fruit of eternal life in Heaven is forbidden.

Our Earth Mother again stands on the brink of renewal, and we with Her. This being the case, those entities that control space-time are going to want to fill the void left by those citizens who defected back into evolution upon our Earth. They are going to try and replace them with others from among our numbers. This is what they do. It’s what they have always done. Be warned, if you leave the body of the Earth Mother to take up residence in space-time, you will never set foot on Her again. Not only that, but you will never again encounter your biological brothers and sisters; and by the term, “your biological brothers and sisters,” I refer to all the children of this wonderful planet. By leaving Earth into space-time you will be saying goodbye to us forever; and you will be stepping out of progressive evolution. You will be stepping into the space-time void, also known as Purgatory, the antechamber of Hell. Life and death continue in this space-time Purgatory and Hell, but they follow a very different path.

With every death and rebirth in space-time you devolve, going further and further from your Mother Planet, from your biological brothers and sisters, and from God. So, when “space-time” (or whatever other name they assign to any time-frame which is not real-time) is launched on our unsuspecting world, it will not be a scientific breakthrough, nor a new discovery. It is a cold, dark place that has been around as long as the Universe has been around, which we were not made to live in. When you are lured to abandon our world and time, search your hearts, and remain here with your natural Mother, the Earth.

(Dan 12:1-13 edited) And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered….And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and swear by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half…. then said I, O my Lord, when shall be the end of these things? And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end (EndTime). Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days (c. 3 ½ years). Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and thirty-five days (45 days more). But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

The above reference to “time, times, and an half” describes three different Time structures: time— what we have now with our Mother Earth (calendar time); times—the full and complete knowledge of Time we will receive in the Fifth World; and, an half time—the incomplete knowledge of “time as direction/space-time.”

The timetable quoted above says there will be less than four years to go "when the abomination that maketh desolate is set up (use of space-time). "When man leaves this Time system," there will be nobody left to tend to the fields..." "The streets of the cities will be silent..." and Mother Earth will be desolate as much of the populace (the “wave”) abandons our Earth into space-time. For it will be easy to choose the temptations of space-time, much harder to be among the few who trust in our Earth:

(Matthew 7:13-14)
…for the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it. For the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

*We are warned to prepare to live off the land when the time arrives; to have water and food supplies enough to allow us independence through the period of turmoil (c. 3 ½ years) where people will receive the “mark of the beast.” Space-timers will have to be marked to be controlled or "policed"; they will receive a mark, a bar-code, on or under their flesh ("the mark of the beast”) such as the microchip, e.g. “VeriChip,” “Digital Angel,” or more advanced versions to come-- implantable “Personal Locating Devices” (PLD’s) with GPS technology, which have already been approved for use in some countries, and implanted in a few (for now) who have naively received them.

As my native father suggested to help prepare for this period:

If every person will find a skillful guide to accompany them into a wild place, and also a desert place, allowing that guide to help them to (learn how to) live in such places, this would be precious. It is useful to know how to make seawater good to drink; it is useful to know different ways to catch and store water, such as deep wells, rainwater, bottled water, and even how to bring rain.

When it is “discovered” that Time is Direction, and "the abomination which makes desolate is set up," God's Laws will have been transgressed. A statute will have been changed (Time), and those that travel into Time to escape the Great Purification to come will have made void a covenant with God. The complete knowledge of Time (“Times”) is given to us by God upon receiving eternal life in Heaven, upon walking the good road, living and dying on our home planet.

American Indian prophecies (such as the Hopi Prophecy Rock) warn us to steer clear of these evil beings that chose the zig-zag path instead of the straight line. They are depicted on the prophecy rock as having no necks joining their heads to their bodies. Many people take this disembodied head drawing as being a sign that these beings are emotionless, because their hearts are not connected to their heads, but that is incorrect. It’s because they lack the hormones produced by the thyroid gland (the thyroid gland is located in the neck). These ungodly ones are very different from us biologically, for they departed from God’s Laws, and were adapted to live away from the Sun in darkness. For these ungodly ones, lies are just a means to an end. They will attempt to validate their lies by immersing them in the truth. They will say anything to lure people into joining them.

These dark ones chose technology over evolution, making a grab at immortality in space-time; but it didn't work out as they wished. They extended their life-span, but like all biological creatures, they finally die. When they die they are not accepted by a "mother" planet and are biologically adapted to live in the darkness and burning cold of outer space (hence references in some scriptures to being cast out to “outer darkness,” and to the “pit of outer darkness” among others). So, those who choose extended life and technology over evolution become outcasts, finally needing others to replace their stale blood and withered organs-- their reason for recruiting (entrapping) new-blood to replace those who defect.

American Indian legends and prophecies call the ones adapted to live in darkness “red-eyes” and “egg-layers,” because their eyes are evolved for night vision instead of daylight, and unlike mammals, they are cold blooded, reptilian. They don't have children the way people (mammals) do; they lay eggs instead. These people who have devolved following death in space-time, do not have the normal "human" hormones such as the thyroid hormone T4, which is a group of iodine molecules (to function properly the thyroid needs iodine). The thyroid gland acts as a thermostat to regulate body temperature, i.e. to prevent our blood from becoming too cold. The absence of the iodine hormone in their biochemistry means that their normal state is what we call "hypothyroidism," a low blood temperature and low metabolism. Garlic being iodine rich, the egg-layers are allergic to garlic to the point where it’s poison to their systems; this is the basis for mankind’s unconscious knowledge that vampires (who live in the dark and need our blood) are afraid of garlic:

(Psalm 88) I am counted with them that go down into the pit. I am as a man who has no strength. Free among the dead like the slain that lie in the grave whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand. Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deep.

(Job 24:16) In the dark they dig through houses which they had marked for themselves in the daytime: they know not the light. For the morning is to them even as the shadow of death.

Our part is simple: do not embrace the change of Time to come, for though it will appear miraculous and wonderful, it is against all that is holy. Shun the dark spirits and their technology. Stay with our Earth Mother and live in the reality that we are accustomed to of the 24 hour day, the seven day week, the 12 month year; for this is the Great Spirit’s reality. This Time structure was formed by God to protect His/Her children. Mother Earth is the Great Goddess (the Core-Heart being masculine) who gathered us to Her breast, sheltered us in Her caves, provided us with nourishment from Her body, and worked tirelessly towards our evolutionary improvement. Let us not abandon our Earth now that we stand on the very threshold of our perfection, when Her work on our behalfs is so near completion. In our Earth Mother's hour of greatest need let us prove ourselves to be loving and loyal children that will not abandon Her, but will instead advance with Her and reap the highest reward the Universe has to offer humanity.

Financially and politically powerful secret orders have infiltrated the highest levels of some organizations, making their future pronouncements unreliable. ANY authoritative organization, religious or secular, that gives its approval, or advises others to go into space-time when it’s existence is revealed, should not be trusted. Of course, the corrupted organizations are capable of swaying us in subtle as well as more direct ways; but however they work, their direction will be to fearfully push us away from our Earth with scientific pronouncements officially okayed wherever their influence reaches, while seductively luring us into space-time. Beware of their half-truths— those truths which bait us on, to which are attached the falsehoods meant to hook us. Those who work in the light serving the Great Spirit will NEVER direct us away from our Earth; for they know we can only reach Heaven by remaining with our world.

We must also be careful not to heed false teachers, some of whom look to the skies for their hope, leading their betrayed followers to look away from our world for their future salvations. Their hope is false; and those who descend from the skies in the final hours of this age, regardless of how they may appear, will be the dark spirits of space-time who will prey upon the false teachers and their deluded followers. Whether these teachers are deluded by their own mistaken beliefs and/or the misleading spirits they put their faith in, or are the dark spirits themselves seeking to entrap followers, do not heed their false and ungodly advice to leave our Earth. As my native father has guided us, always remember to keep your eyes down to our Earth Mother for your hope and deliverance, not up to the skies and other worlds. We are called to be resolute, to be brave and immovable, and face the turmoil to come with our Mother Earth. Those who are steadfast and unmoved will be victorious and inherit the Morning Star.

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

tru3

06-06-2007, 03:05 PM

wow. tremendous post. thanks upaava. :)

i have a couple of questions, just to further my own understanding. this information is paralleling my own insights, but with certain significant differences, and i'm just trying to soak in this new context. thanks in advance for your patience and response.

tru3-- i'tupko, the use of the microchipping will be to control us after the new space-time is set up for use and many have chosen to desert our Earth into this "new" time. Let me speak more about this ancient Time structure and those who have died there to become the "red eyes" we have spoken about earlier.

right. suppression of consciousness as expressed through the physical body. it's not really "new", is it? this new matrix? the moment has really not been right to "populate" this matrix with soul energy; that's why it's been a secret. am i even in the ballpark here?

i feel the "red eyes" have been trying to build artificial energy bodies for millenia (translation: vehicles to transverse dimensions of spacetime; montauk/philadelphia experiment, the destruction of atlantis), but have failed every time at totally extricating themselves from this place. now, they are about to try it again in a new way, and will need 'fresh souls' to power up the system. we will be sold a bill of goods, with crucial pieces of information deliberately withheld.

and, this migration of soul energy has to be voluntary, does it not? we do have to make a conscious choice to step into the new matrix, no?

H.G. Wells once wrote a story about a machine built to travel in Time. But it doesn’t require a special machine to turn our backs on God and Heaven. Not only is time travel possible, it has been happening all around us; but the means to do so has been kept a dark secret. One group hides it from us for our own good because it is the ultimate temptation leading us away from Heaven. Others keep it a secret for vast financial gain and political power. Long ago only the Levites (the Hebrew priestly order) had the knowledge of time travel (space-time), but it was wrenched from their hands. There are people-- a handful of the very rich and famous, the members of certain secret societies, members of the Bohemian Club, political leaders-- who have crossed the threshold of real-time into space-time. These people have hand signals and items of jewelry that allow them to distinguish one another from among those persons who have not gone into the space-time realm.

The new Time System will not be read as seconds, minutes, and hours as we have now, but as degrees, and seconds of degrees, as on a compass (direction). Every "moment" in Time will be a "point/place" in space, hence, the term "space-time," (also: Purgatory, Arcadia [“et in Arcadia ego”], Seventh Heaven, etc.). Every "moment" in Time will be an "event" in space, in other words, it won't be a "nanosecond" it will be an "incident" (event). Space-time is a misnomer, because there is no “time” in space. “Time” unfolds on, and near to, the body of a planet. As one moves further from the surface of a planet, so “time” becomes weaker and weaker until, beyond the effect of the planet’s gravity, “time” ceases to exist. Thus, “time” does not exist in outer space. The word “space-time” really means “an absence of time.” Another way to conceive of “space-time” is “timelessness.” Timeless space is not waiting around to be discovered by a human physicist, it has long since been “discovered” and heavily exploited.

imo, at the most complex level of operation, the "time loop" has been criss-crossed countless times to shape and mold the course of human events to a desired end, at a specified time (significance of the protractor and compass in freemasonry?).

is this a fairly accurate assesment?

that desired end is totally escaping the 3d realm. things are going to appear to be so bad, that masses of people will be desperate to get out as well, but this path leads to perdition for the rank and file.

Regardless of how wonderful the new Time reality may at first appear to be, its end is darkest misery. We are protected from the inevitable, terrible consequences of living in another time-frame by our covenant with God. As described in the Judeo-Christian bible, and in other world scripture, we are covenanted (contracted) to remain in the genetic time-frame that was especially established for us by God when He/She created us. Those who recognize the normalcy of death accept it without fear, understanding it leads us forward toward a goal God/Nature intends for us. Those in this age who have forgotten this truth, fear death, and are those who are likely to be seduced by the promise of extraordinary longevity in the new Time, breaking their covenants with God by “eating” of this forbidden knowledge.

excellent. everyone is here by choice, imv. we did the best we could, with the knowledge and beliefs we had. holding fast also means standing in a power place, the ground of Being, the understanding that no matter what comes next, we are Immortal Love. no external event, no new 'knowledge' will ever change that, including the possibility of physical death as a result of the changes that are unfolding. it's my feeling that this impulse to avoid physical death and the seduction of the new time loop will be manipulated in several different ways; the loomies always seem to have a 'plan b'.

ime, i have found it's actually less painful to rip the band-aid off quickly, rather than slowly peeling it off, and with it a hair at a time. accepting our own mortality as a natural part of the cosmic cycle, as a gift really, would be ripping the bandage off quickly, to me.

thanks again for your patience. i come from a different set of assumptions about the world, my mind is trained in a particular way, and i merely seek greater context and understanding. :)

synergy777

06-06-2007, 03:56 PM

sadness, no, logic yes. look we believed the corrupted teachings when we were kids, were told not to question, blind faith. so now we are expected to the do the same with this alternative, great, real progress that, one opposame for another. sadness my arse, how about a real look without emotional, wish washy spiritual crap. how does this knowledge stop war, genocide, etc, it don't.

look most of this spirtual stuff is cool, nice reading, great feel good stuff, but thats it. in this real world, it don't do much does it. then all this listen to your inner voice, instinct, soul whatever. that little voice is ego, listen to it. come on how many peeps after getting into this stuff, start thinking am i neo, am i the one, am i here to save, unite etc. has all my life been geared towards this, they start turning random incidents/coincidences etc into a convienent case for saviourship.

if you desire something, you will ultimately have a warped/biased view, and will purposely put things together to support your desire/aim, hence accuracy is compromised. its like biased researchers/writers, or selective editing to support an agenda.

its dangerous all this just be-lie-ve, the have blind faith in an an entity that does not have human features eg emotions, caring etc. wheres his help for the sufferers, what a few words, prayers, is that it? wheres his compassion for the people, killed daily, genocide, war, murder.

i think we need to have a more objective, accurate approach, as the whole fate, destiny, mystic side of life is too intangible etc.

i mean sometimes if one is intellectually independant, one could view great teachers as paranoid, narcassistic, deluded pariahs. maybe these people were mental, illusions of self grandeur, the voice in their heads, being mental disorders. see we don't really know do we, maybe the elite knew they were charasmatic anti establishment deviants/misfits and thus used them for their agenda. no offence who told these teachers they special, they did. no tests, no evaualtion, checking the accuracy of their teachings. see the only real way is logical, scientific way, and even that is plagued by human faults/perception/intellectual ability. if yashuah returned today, he would be locked up in a mental asylum.

see the conspiracy movement is flawed, very flawed. the elite know it, and hence are not threatend by it. we have such a mish mash of inaccurate data, supported by inaccurate researchers. i mean look at this astral travelling/lucid dreaming crap. its merely a mental function, and people label it as soul work. i have dreams of weird places, bullshit saying i am the one, etc. its all narcasstic, arrogant mental projection.

i could believe it, my ego wants to believe it, but thankfully the logical side prevails and see's it for what it really is, a biological/chemical/mental function. that is derived from thoughts, data, etc all filtering/swishing around my head. its not divine, spiritual but simply a mental function. a biological, chemical brainstorm/roleplay, thats it.

redhead

06-06-2007, 07:18 PM

i am all i am

06-06-2007, 08:50 PM

Ngungu'taota, Tutskwa I'qatsi,

I have a few questions, if you will take the time to answer them it
will remove some of the confusion im feeling at the moment.

You talk about there is one “Hidden One” (God), and He goes by many
names; we invoke Him by his Egyptian name when we pray. We do this because
Moses, when he taught us how to worship in the desert, addressed God by
the name he knew, Amen, the Hidden One.

Is'nt Amen - Amen Ra the Egyptian sun god, who came from the lilly out of the waters of creation. The waters of creation were known as NUN. Nun was symbolically interpreted as a serpent, Nun must be the father of or creator of Amen Ra , so in other words the sun god Amen Ra was created and placed in this world by the serpent. So why do you pray to a god created by the serpent, for is the serpent not the great deciever?

Also you talk about the All-Seeing-Eye in the Earth Belly which was sometimes represented by a dot (fetus) inside a pregnant belly. And the same hieroglyph was used for the name of “Amen,” the “Hidden God” who dwelt in the Earth Womb/Heart. Again i am confused if the all-seeing-eye is symbolically Amen Ra and he is the sun god then i can understand why the Illuminati (for want of a better term) use the symbol because the serpent is there master, but why would Native Indians worship it too, have you been decieved also by the the entities that control space-time?

Mmmmm...great questions Redhead.

A person must work to improve him/herself and thereby to be worthy of Heaven-Fifth World.

Do you believe that we are unworthy Upaava ???

And if so, why do you believe that we are unworthy ???

We belong to the Earth: The one who gives us the Spirit of Life is the One we belong to.

The term “Mother Earth” aptly describes our relationship to Her. She has bore and nurtured us from our earliest beginnings, as She has carried us within Her life-giving womb. Thus, we are rooted within Her in a very deep and holy way, which no other world can say of us— She is our Mother; we belong to Her. Before we can progress it is necessary that we accept that we belong to our Creator.

"Mother Earth", or "Earth Mother", are terms used describing the Goddess, which also is refered to by the names Venus, Lillith, Diana, Lucifer, etc., (see below:The Dawn of the Goddess - Names of the Goddess).

Is this who you are saying "we belong to" as though she owns us, Upaava ???

Modern science still refers to the “Earth Heart” by the old name, "Core." "Ab" was the Egyptian word for “Earth Heart,” and the same word, “Ab,” meant “Earth Soul.” The “Ab” was also the human soul that would be weighed in the balances of “Maat” after death, in the Earth Mother’s underground Judgement Hall. “Maat”, the Earth Mother as the personification of “Truth” and “Justice,” takes her name from “Ma,” the “mother” syllable of Indo-European languages, worshipped in itself as the fundamental name of the Earth Goddess. The “All-Seeing-Eye” in the Earth Belly was sometimes represented by a dot (fetus) inside a pregnant belly. And the same hieroglyph was used for the name of “Amen,” the “Hidden God” who dwelt in the Earth Womb/Heart. Ma-ma means both “mother’s breasts” and “mother” in almost all languages. The Egyptian Book of the Dead addresses prayers to “The Heart of my Mother,” “The Heart of Transformations,” “The Source of Rebirth.”

THE WORD OBEAH

Now, while it is true that the ORIGIN of the word is indeed obscured and clouded in secrecy, it is primarily because Obeah, as implied above, is in itself clouded in secrecy --- being the remnant of a once very powerful and celebrated SECRET religious Order lost in the mist of time. Even so, slowly over the years clues have surfaced that indicate THAT particular secret religious Order emanated from a certain general geographical area. Those clues, few in number that they may be, strongly point to the fact that the Order originated in or around an area where the Egyptian language was either born, dominant, or used by the priests or religious class --- much as Latin is used by certain religious orders today --- with the power and knowledge of Obeah maintained and rising from the underground ashes of that dispersed Order over the centuries. Considering such a background, it is very probable the etymology of the word sprang from the Egyptian word Ob or Aub, meaning "serpent." Oph is a winged serpent or dragon; and Ab means wisdom/understanding, and together means "Serpent of Wisdom" or "Serpent of Knowledge." To this day Obion is still the Egyptian name for a serpent.....

http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/...01/obeah2.html

http://williamhenry.net/images/c2c_p2.jpg
Yahweh is the serpent that curls around the prophets. His head is at the lower right at the bottom of his column or pillar.

Notice that the serpent form of Yahweh forms a G that also appears in the image below.

http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/2006/03mar/masonserpent.jpg

http://www.norwegian-pentagram.com/images/flamel-5.jpg
Jesus as the crucified serpent. By current report it's a copy from the ancient "The Book of Abraham the Jew", found during the 14th century.

http://www.salt.org.il/serpent.gif
Moses interceded with God and was instructed: "Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live" (Numbers 21:8).

http://www.sign2god.com/folders/vaticaan/vatiscan-kl.jpg
The Vatican's Crest: the 'snake-/dragon' as displayed in the Vatican Museum...

The word 'vatican' comes from Latin and is a contraction of two words in the following way:

'Vatis' = 'prophetic' or 'diviner'
'Can' = 'serpent/snake'
These two words combined make:

'the prophetic- or made divine serpent'
The Vaticaan is a place, so you may say, that 'Vatican' means 'the place of the prophetic- and worshipped serpent'.

http://www.sign2god.com/folders/vati...ticaan-en.html

The Phoenician serpent god, alias Basilisk. The serpent, as well as the image of the sun, is always a phallic symbol in ancient religion. Basilisk is where the Roman Catholic Church got the name-- St. Peter's Basilica. Basilica is the old Greek name for the temple of the phallic god. How appropriate this is in view of the perpetual obsessions of the priests of "Mother Church." It also is well complimented by the obelisk in St. Peter's square which is a world wide phallic symbol complete with the phallic ball on top.

http://www.biblelight.net/gregoryxiii-dragon-medal-1582.jpg
The above papal medal of Pope Gregory XIII, designed by L Parm, is dated 1582, marking the year of the Gregorian calendar reform. On the reverse of the medal is a winged dragon / serpent encircling a ram's head. As previously mentioned, the dragon is the biblical symbol of Satan (Rev 12:9). The serpent that is chasing or devouring its tail is called Ouroboros, Uroboros, or Oureboros. The ram's head is also a satanic symbol, and is frequently associated with the Egyptian deities, such as the god Amon (Amoun, Ammun, Ammon), the king of all gods, who was also regarded as the sun god, and Khnum, who created mankind on his potter's wheel from the mud of the Nile.

The intended symbolic meaning, however, is undoubtedly that of Aries the Ram, the first sign of the Zodiac, which symbolizes the Vernal / Spring Equinox, and Draco / Drako (or Ouroboros) the serpent depicting a cyclical returning. Pope Gregory XIII had modified the calendar specifically so that the Vernal Equinox would remain relatively constant, on or about March 21st, which is the beginning of the Zodiacal year, when the Sun crosses the Equator and enters the astrological sign of Aries. This had the desired result of returning Easter to the time specified by the Nicene Council (325 A.D.).

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/benediction_malediction3.jpg
This sign is used by several people, including the pope.
It signifies ex-communication, in other words cursing the people to whom the sign is made.

http://www.hermetic.com/sabazius/baphomet.jpg http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/pope0260a.gif http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/CLI/84112.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/jesuselcristos/hoaxology_09.html

Is the above the representation of the God that you believe there is a covenant with ???

Is the "God when He/She" Baphomet who has the "Ma-ma", or "mother's breasts" ???

Regardless of how wonderful the new Time reality may at first appear to be, its end is darkest misery. We are protected from the inevitable, terrible consequences of living in another time-frame by our covenant with God. As described in the Judeo-Christian bible, and in other world scripture, we are covenanted (contracted) to remain in the genetic time-frame that was especially established for us by God when He/She created us. Those who recognize the normalcy of death accept it without fear, understanding it leads us forward toward a goal God/Nature intends for us. Those in this age who have forgotten this truth, fear death, and are those who are likely to be seduced by the promise of extraordinary longevity in the new Time, breaking their covenants with God by “eating” of this forbidden knowledge.

(Luke 21:35-36)
For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The Dawn of the Goddess

The goddess religion came from Africa with modern humans 100,000 years ago. This may be inferred from the fact that very similar goddess stories are found on all continents, suggesting that the stories were known before modern people migrated to Europe; Asia, the Americas, and Australia. In Europe, (France) there are some recently discovered caves decorated with paintings and carvings which have been dated between 30,340 and 32,410 BP (before present).

http://www.big.com.au/fallen/dawn.html

Names of the Goddess...
http://www.big.com.au/fallen/gnam.html

A Search for the White Goddess

The White Goddess is one of the names given to the Earth Mother; the Moon goddess, to Venus, Astarte, Lilith, Belili, the Muses, the Three Graces and to innumerable other female deities. She is found in the myths and legends of all cultures. The stories and attributes of the white goddess are remarkably similar in nations as far apart as Ireland and China, and this points to a very ancient common source for the myths, which appear to have come out of Africa with Homo sapiens 100,000 years ago.

This was a nature-based religion which involved close observation and celebration of the seasons and of the moon and the planets. Its bible was written in the stars for all to see, and its hymns were the songs of birds and the sighings of the breeze. The worship of the White Goddess reached its highest level in the time of the Minoans (say 1600 BC). In that period, the sea-trading Minoans carried their religion from their ports in the Mediterranean as far as Ireland in the west; and to tropical Asia in the east. Of the goddess-temples founded, the highest may have been that of Sappho on the island of Lesbos. The goddess-temples are of great importance to scholars, for they are the source of the alphabet we use; the musical scales we use, of the concept of poetry, of the calendar, of astronomy and history, and of formal mathematics and the sciences. This culture fell in a cataclysm in approximately 1600 BC, but was resumed by Achaeans (proto-Greeks), and by other civilisations honouring the nature goddess. The temple's role at the pinnacle of human culture and achievement lasted until the second century anno domine, when the the high priestess of the temple of Isis was murdered. The fall of the temple on the Nile marked the end of goddess-worship as a manifest or established religion, and the beginning of the Goddess' long career in hidden religion, that is, in the occult .

http://www.big.com.au/fallen/

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4101

I have many more questions for you Upaava, but I will leave them for now and allow you the space to answer what has already been asked.

With LOVE.

tru3

07-06-2007, 02:13 AM

I have many more questions for you Upaava, but I will leave them for now and allow you the space to answer what has laready been asked.

and i do have a couple of questions, then a comment for you, iaaia.

what is the relationship between the connections you've made in the different interpretations of earth mother, and the anticipated changes to the actual physical 3-d planet we call earth?

how do you equate a physical event to a symbol, an image, an interpretation? isnt' this distorting experience?

doesn't too much attention paid to the objective symbol draw energy and attention from deepening and quickening Being, from developing the capacity for courage, compassion, and humility?

aren't these the important qualities to be cultivated? they are, to me. :)

it seems like semantics is getting in the way. his signifier and your signified aren't meshing up. scholarship and research can only take one so far. jmo.

upaava

07-06-2007, 06:38 AM

Ngungu'taota, Tutskwa I'qatsi,

I will do my best to answer all of your questions. It is up to each of us to find what is true and meaningful, and when we do, to act upon it. Do not decide what has value because it comes from me or any so-called authority, but only when your own mind and heart tells you to follow. I am only a relative who has been given a message to pass on to you. I am not perfect nor do I pretend to be. What I return is presented as honestly and accurately as I can; it is offered, not imposed.

As with my native father, I receive nothing for what I am doing to pass on this knowledge; it is done as a duty at my expense without expectation of any financial gain. If this knowledge is ever formally published, all of the author's profits will go directly from the publisher to organizations benefitting Native American and Third World children and their communities. As a brother, I only ask that you reflect upon these words, and what is warned of will occur in the future; and when it does, to decide what choice is wisest for you to make. In this Fourth World, in this modern age, there are many voices vying for our attention; among these voices are those that are holy, and others which are misleading, pointing us to the upper road on the Hopi Prophecy Rock which leads to darkness. If your minds become confused by the conflicting ideas which bombard us, it is good to find a peaceful time and place where the mind can be calmed, and we can receive guidance from a higher source, however we know that source. If you do not believe in a Great Spirit, then I hope you will nonetheless be alert to the coming choices spoken of in these posts. For, regardless of our personal philosophies, nationalities, ethnicities, or religions, we’re all part of our Earth’s life and, ready or not, will face the coming Fifth World together.

To find the truth we must be willing to humbly open our hearts and minds, however difficult this may be. If we cling too tightly to the imperfect understanding of our age, to false and misleading teachings, or to our own wishful thinking, we will be unable to receive from the Great Spirit what we truly need during the days ahead. The knowledge and warnings sent to us help us to see through the coming lies and deceptions, recognizing our deep and holy connections to the Earth, and our home in Heaven to which She carries us. As has been asked of us: Who hath ears to hear?

tru3-- you wrote: ".... i come from a different set of assumptions about the world, my mind is trained in a particular way, and i merely seek greater context and understanding."

I'tupko, you have spoken well for many people with those words. The world today has "trained our minds" according to the beliefs of the age; so when we are given different ideas they seem new and strange to us, especially after we have held the ideas we've been raised with for many years. To find the truth we must have the courage to release old beliefs, or at least frame them in new ways when we receive new information that "speaks to us."

You asked: "...it's not really "new", is it? this new matrix? the moment has really not been right to "populate" this matrix with soul energy; that's why it's been a secret. am i even in the ballpark here?..."

This unnatural time structure has been with us since the beginning of the universe, and has long been exploited by others. What we will face is not new, but the continuation of a very old lure which has been spoken about in the scriptures of the world when referring to an "ordinance," "statute," or "law" we were told not to break, and in references to "fallen angels" and other names of those who tempt us with long life and other lures. The other "time zone" and those who have chosen to desert their Earth Mothers into it has ever been a temptation. The knowledge of my native people tells us that at the end of the Third World the same things occurred, where this Time structure was revealed and each chose to remain with their Earth or abandon Her into this ancient Time Frame.

At first many who go into this unnatural space-time can be very impressed, until some of them learn that the people who occupy this technologically driven world have become desperately unhappy. Unhappy because they had “jumped ship” into space-time when their own planet occupied Earth’s present orbit, and later came to realize they would never more walk on the soil of their own Mother Planet with those they had known and loved. Most of these inhabitants of the super-technological space-time world existing alongside ours were deceived into thinking that their planet was on the brink of destruction; when in fact it was on the brink of renewal, as ours is now.

Many of the most disenchanted inhabitants of space-time have defected and are defecting. They have chosen to rejoin the inhabitants of real-time and thereby re-enter evolution. We of this world welcome them to our Earth Mother; but it is not the same to them. The Earth is not their biological Mother. They are visitors here and, however hard they try, they will never feel entirely at home among us. They carry a feeling—having lost their original Earth Mothers-- that, somehow, they do not belong here.

you asked: "...this migration of soul energy has to be voluntary, does it not? we do have to make a conscious choice to step into the new matrix, no?..."

When we step across the threshold of our world into the world of another time zone we remove ourselves bodily from our Earth Mother. It is all too easy to take the first step into space-time, the place of the one known in scripture as Satan. Walking on a carpet used to be a popular way of going into time. Believe it or not, a chair can conduct you away from our Earth and Her natural time; you can drive there in a car. But most people go there just by walking once they know the way. And while it is easy to go there, once there, as explained earlier, it is impossible to come back to a normal life.

My understanding is that at the time it is set up so that we can step into space-time they will be seeking to herd us there, using the microchipping and other technologies to control and direct us. We can reject this by going out of their system, living from the Earth as best as we can-- that is why we are told to prepare for a period of about 3 1/2 years where we have a water supply and food to last through this period; the period where the
"abomination of desolation" is set up as written in scripture.

you asked: "...the "time loop" has been criss-crossed countless times to shape and mold the course of human events to a desired end, at a specified time....that desired end is totally escaping the 3d realm..."

I do not know the full extent that those using space-time have influenced our world; but they have no doubt affected changes when they could. But those who are completed in the Fifth Worlds watch over us helping each world and its life to progress and follow in their footsteps. So those who work to lure us astray are opposed by those perfected, angelic, ancestors who serve the Great Spirit, helping to protect and guide us home to the Morning Stars. As written:

If you make the Most High your dwelling…
then no harm will befall you,
no disaster will come near your tent. (91:9-10)

You will not fear the terror of night,
nor the arrow that flies by day,

nor the pestilence that stalks in the darkness,
nor the plague that destroys at midday. (91:5-6)

…we will not fear, though the earth give way
and the mountains fall into the heart of the sea,

though its waters roar and foam
and the mountains quake with their surging. (46:2-3)

For he will command his angels concerning you
to guard you in all your ways… (91:11)

you asked: "...things are going to appear to be so bad, that masses of people will be desperate to get out as well, but this path leads to perdition for the rank and file..."

There will be two main influences leading us to go into the forbidden Time as it has always been: the lure of extremely long life and very advanced technology; and false pronouncements in our world that our Earth is going to destruct or other reasons meant to drive us into the new Time. Once again the "snake" will lure us to eat of the knowledge we have been forbidden to use.

This is getting to be a long post with other questions still to address; so I will stop here and begin a new post to continue.

umumi pam taaviningwu - may the Sun always shine upon you,
upaava

i am all i am

07-06-2007, 06:55 AM

and i do have a couple of questions, then a comment for you, iaaia.

what is the relationship between the connections you've made in the different interpretations of earth mother, and the anticipated changes to the actual physical 3-d planet we call earth?

how do you equate a physical event to a symbol, an image, an interpretation? isnt' this distorting experience?

doesn't too much attention paid to the objective symbol draw energy and attention from deepening and quickening Being, from developing the capacity for courage, compassion, and humility?

aren't these the important qualities to be cultivated? they are, to me. :)

it seems like semantics is getting in the way. his signifier and your signified aren't meshing up. scholarship and research can only take one so far. jmo.

G'day Tru3.

The 3D planet we call Earth is continually changing whether anyone anticipates those changes or not. Anyones anticipation of changes is merely their interpretation of an event that has yet to happen. The relationship to the worship of the Goddess as the Earth Mother and the belief that she owns us because we belong to her does not correlate with unconditional love/freedom, which does not claim ownership. Do you believe that we belong to the Earth Mother and that we are unworthy and have to earn our way into Heaven ???

Physical experience is an image. The same question could be asked of the information that has been imparted about the imagery, or symbolism, of the Earth being our Mother, being not worthy, etc. Is it merely an interpretation or a distortion of experience ???

Courage, compassion and humility are what you already have the capacity to express. They are merely a choice as to whether you choose to express them moment to moment. The state of BEING is merely a choice as to which aspect of ALL THAT IS, or the hologram, which contains all parts within it, that you would choose to now express. Do you believe that you 'lack' these qualities and that is why you need to develop and cultivate them ???

There is no need to cultivate these qualities as they are merely an aspect of the unlimited infinite BEING that you are.

There is no where to go because you are already HERE. Scholarship and research are merely a choice of what you can do while you are HERE.

http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

upaava

07-06-2007, 07:56 AM

Ngungu'taota, Tutskwa I'qatsi,

tru3-- I have just found other questions you asked in your post which I will speak to here.

you asked: "...holding fast also means standing in a power place, the ground of Being, the understanding that no matter what comes next, we are Immortal Love..."

We can seek for the truth from the spiritual spark within us, which we are seeking to at-one with. I'tupko, we are not yet completed. Nature has been carrying us within our Mother Earth progressing us forward to where our immortal spark and an eternal form can be melded in the Fifth World-Heaven. We are not yet there, but are so very near. Our Earth now readies Herself to birth Her Egg and fly Home to the Fifth World-Morning Star, the crowning place of ours and other systems. If we will remain immovable from our Earth one more time, rejecting the lures to go into space time when it is offered to us, we will be perfected in body, mind, and spirit everafter.

you suggested: "...it's my feeling that this impulse to avoid physical death and the seduction of the new time loop will be manipulated in several different ways; the loomies always seem to have a 'plan b'..."

As I wrote in the last post: the method has always been the same; the lure of extremely long life (aided by our fear of death), and of very advanced technology which has an especially strong appeal to many of us living in this modern, material age. They do not need a Plan B, i'tupko, there will be many people who will make the tragic mistake to abandon our Earth Mother, forever after losing their original Earth Mothers.

you wrote: "..., i have found it's actually less painful to rip the band-aid off quickly, rather than slowly peeling it off...accepting our own mortality as a natural part of the cosmic cycle, as a gift really, would be ripping the bandage off quickly, to me..."

Ta'a, yes, i'tupko, accepting that death is as natural as breathing, and is part of the design that is carrying us home in the Fifth World, does help us to choose wisely, and not give in to the temptation for very long life or immortality in these incomplete bodies we yet possess.

synergy777-- I am sorry if I misunderstood you. I believe that I understand you now.

you wrote: "...how about a real look without emotional, wish washy spiritual crap. how does this knowledge stop war, genocide, etc, it don't...most of this spirtual stuff is cool, nice reading, great feel good stuff, but thats it. in this real world, it don't do much does it...how many peeps after getting into this stuff, start thinking am i neo, am i the one, am i here to save, unite etc. has all my life been geared towards this, they start turning random incidents/coincidences etc into a convienent case for saviourship...i think we need to have a more objective, accurate approach, as the whole fate, destiny, mystic side of life is too intangible etc..."

I'tupko, I agree with much of what you say. What my native people are saying is that the natural universe studied by science, when more fully understood, connects science and religious truth. My native father often told me that the truth has alway been with us, and that science is the newcomer, still seeking to discover and understand it. It is sometimes hard for people to accept that indigenous people who are often seen as savage and backward, can keep knowledge which modern science has not yet discovered; but this is still true. Most everything that we have discovered in the past century was already known and expected to return by my and other native peoples. They know more of what is to come, some of which is being restored to us, as they have been instructed to do at this time according to the prophetic signs we now see in the world, and the dreams and visions some have received.

We are also taught to live in-balance, which is to say that we do not reject either the inner moral/spiritual direction that is there for us, nor the outer, practical demonstration of what is needed to better our world. Both are needed-- to abandon the loving direction found within us for only the material world leads us to the koyaanisqatis that we are now seeing, where kindness, compassion, and unselfish service are devalued in favor of pure logic and empirical evidence, which has led to poisoning our world, and continuing the violence and suffering of war. As John Lennon wrote, which became an anthem for those seeking to end violence" "All we are asking is give peace a chance." This may only be a beginning, but as Mohandas "Mahatma" Gandhi showed the world, fighting in a non-violent, spiritual way can be VERY practical.

you wrote: "...who told these teachers they special, they did. no tests, no evaualtion, checking the accuracy of their teachings....if yashuah returned today, he would be locked up in a mental asylum..."

I'tupko, I agree that we must be cautious about who we believe, especially if they seek to make us "followers" rather than helping us to find and draw upon the highest and best within us. True holy company bows to us as our servants, never seeking to force us in any way. Some so-called teachers or gurus in the world are leading people in the wrong directions, while there are also holy people who help to guide us onto the true road of life. As I mentioned at the start of my last post: each of us must recognize what is true from what is false, which is not an easy task at this period of our world. That is why it is good to humble ourselves, putting aside what we think we know, asking for the wisdom we need to walk the path of life.

you wrote: "...my ego wants to believe it, but thankfully the logical side prevails and see's it for what it really is, a biological/chemical/mental function. that is derived from thoughts, data, etc all filtering/swishing around my head..."

The logical side of your head, the left brain hemisphere, is only one part of you, one side of knowledge which is apprehended in a logical way. We also have a right brain hemisphere which sees things more intuitively, wholistically; this is where you seem to be having your battle, i'tupko. I can only suggest that we are all seeking to find balance, where the right and left brain hemispheres are blendid and work together.

Native people sometimes refer to "one-hearted" and "two-hearted" people which refers to which side of our brains are dominant. Elders sometimes watch to see which way our heads tilt, or which foot we first step forward upon when we get up, as a clue to which hemisphere dominates. Native people tend to see things wholistically, right brain oriented, while the west tends to be more logical, left brained, which probably was part of the problem of mis-communications between them when they first came into contact during western expansion of the EuroAmerican people.

I am going to stop now and rest. I will retrun soon and do my best to answer the rest of the questions that have accumulated. I would appreciate it if you would hold some of your questions until I can catch up those already given. There is only one of me to go around :)

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

tru3

07-06-2007, 02:20 PM

G'day Tru3.

The 3D planet we call Earth is continually changing whether anyone anticipates those changes or not. Anyones anticipation of changes is merely their interpretation of an event that has yet to happen. The relationship to the worship of the Goddess as the Earth Mother and the belief that she owns us because we belong to her does not correlate with unconditional love/freedom, which does not claim ownership. Do you believe that we belong to the Earth Mother and that we are unworthy and have to earn our way into Heaven ???

Physical experience is an image. The same question could be asked of the information that has been imparted about the imagery, or symbolism, of the Earth being our Mother, being not worthy, etc. Is it merely an interpretation or a distortion of experience ???

Courage, compassion and humility are what you already have the capacity to express. They are merely a choice as to whether you choose to express them moment to moment. The state of BEING is merely a choice as to which aspect of ALL THAT IS, or the hologram, which contains all parts within it, that you would choose to now express. Do you believe that you 'lack' these qualities and that is why you need to develop and cultivate them ???

There is no need to cultivate these qualities as they are merely an aspect of the unlimited infinite BEING that you are.

There is no where to go because you are already HERE. Scholarship and research are merely a choice of what you can do while you are HERE.

http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

thanks for your response, brother. :)

again, words fail. i agree with you. however, imv, the natural state of basic sanity that most are born with has been numbed by suppressive agents.

when i said "cultivate", i meant shovelling out the shit that has accumulated in our mental and physical states.

when i dump a pile of manure in my garden, i still have to spread the manure into the soil and work the ground, if i want to grow fruit. otherwise, i have a big stinky pile that draws flies. :)

We are also taught to live in-balance, which is to say that we do not reject either the inner moral/spiritual direction that is there for us, nor the outer, practical demonstration of what is needed to better our world. Both are needed-- to abandon the loving direction found within us for only the material world leads us to the koyaanisqatis that we are now seeing, where kindness, compassion, and unselfish service are devalued in favor of pure logic and empirical evidence, which has led to poisoning our world, and continuing the violence and suffering of war.

as i said, jmo.

synergy777

07-06-2007, 02:59 PM

http://www.crystal-skull.com/

This is the home page of the verified ancient crystal skull known as “Synergy.”

Native legends speak of crystal skulls as an inheritance from ancient times. Said to “talk and sing” they are believed to carry messages for all mankind, including what may be discovered when we overcome our fear of death.

The first layer of working with any skull, including Synergy, is "to remember." This is the first layer - and this layer has many other layers within it. What you are to called to remember is who you really are. It's so easy to get caught up in the daily things and forget that each life is short and sweet, even with the difficulties.
The real you is a Being of Light. You are a Spiritual Being, inside of a physical body. Remember

what you think of this. also the serpent/yahweh, why do the rastas have such a different view, who is right? this is why the name of the creator is such a thorny issue, good work, lets get to the bottom of this.

i am all i am

07-06-2007, 03:22 PM

thanks for your response, brother. :)

again, words fail. i agree with you. however, imv, the natural state of basic sanity that most are born with has been numbed by suppressive agents.

when i said "cultivate", i meant shovelling out the shit that has accumulated in our mental and physical states.

when i dump a pile of manure in my garden, i still have to spread the manure into the soil and work the ground, if i want to grow fruit. otherwise, i have a big stinky pile that draws flies. :)

as i said, jmo.

G'day Tru3.

You are welcome brother, I love discussing with you.

Society is a suppressive agent and insanity rules it. We understand that it is beneficial to run your own business (being independant), and yet we educate children in how to work for someone else. This is merely one example of the insanity of society.

I hear you in regards to cultivation.

I am going to have a go at you about the "jmo" though. "JUST" does not describe you brother. Your opinion/view/perspective has value as much as any other, no less, no more. You are an unlimited infinite being that the word "just" cannot describe, no matter what aspect of you that the word "just" is attempting to describe.

http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

synergy777

07-06-2007, 03:50 PM

as the real hebrew are african/asiatic, they should have a better view of yahweh than the imposters/nwo/synagogue of satan. all the symbolism stuff, i have done on the old forum. again maybe arguing about the name is wrong, maybe creator is the best used term as we have so much corrupt conflicting data. i think the message is the most important factor anyway, one love.

also it would be nice if the creator made unravelling the mystery, solving the puzzle a little easier, lol the creator has a rather sadistic/funny side it seems, "watch these apes run around like headless chickens, the ones that catch on will be so loopy, insane, no one will believe them, or they will give thinking they are mad" lol

upaava

07-06-2007, 09:23 PM

Ngungu'taota, Tutskwa I'qatsi,

For those who have recently joined this thread, may I suggest that reading back will help you better understand what I am speaking about now, as I have tried to lay a foundation building slowly from the beginning.

I am trying to take your posts in order; if I have missed any questions, please
ask them again.

redhead-- You wrote: "...“…You talk about there is one “Hidden One” (God), and He goes by many names; we invoke Him by his Egyptian name when we pray. We do this because Moses, when he taught us how to worship in the desert, addressed God by the name he knew, Amen, the Hidden One…Is'nt Amen - Amen Ra the Egyptian sun god, who came from the lilly out of the waters of creation. The waters of creation were known as NUN. Nun was symbolically interpreted as a serpent, Nun must be the father of or creator of Amen Ra , so in other words the sun god Amen Ra was created and placed in this world by the serpent…”

I'siwa, we can twist almost anything around and make it appear in different lights; is this not true? If you check you will find that the Egyptian name of Amon, Amun, Amen, etc. means the "Hidden," or more correctly the “Hidden One” (search amun, amen, hidden one).

When I wrote that post it was offered to help you to consider that the “Hidden One” of old refers to the Hidden Core (Kore)-Heart-Soul of the Earth (as described in the rest of that section of my post), and has been altered through time to where “Amen” (as used in prayer today) has come to mean “so be it.” I wrote that for you to consider that our Mother Earth and Her inner Core-Egg have long been known throughout history, by the ancient Egyptians and other past civilizations. It is good to read that section of the post as a whole, reflecting upon the interpretation that is being retuned to us; there are many other interpretations (as you noted) based upon what has come down to us in this age, and how we are predisposed to receive them by the thinking of our times.

The snake is a very ancient symbol and does not always carry negative meaning as some have associated it today. For example, the swastika is often thought of as an evil symbol because of its association with Nazi Germany; but it is a very ancient symbol of Hinduism and can be found in the cultures of indigenous peoples going far back in time, referring to the dynamic movement of creation and life. I invite you to re-read my earlier post about "Earth Mother/Earth Heart" seeking to perceive the Earth as native people do-- as part of a living Universe, with the name of Her Hidden Core-Heart-Soul (Hidden One) once being known in Egypt as Amun/Amen, and symbolized by a dot within the circle (All Seeing Eye in the circle being the Core-Heart Soul-Mind within our living Earth).

Here is something for you to consider regarding our Earth and Her inner Core-KKore) Heart which is birthed as Her Egg at the end of Purification Times:

In the following excerpt from the Nag Hammadi-Gnostic, texts—the untitled text on “the origins of the world”—Jesus quotes Eve, Earth “Mother of all living,” cognate with India’s “Ieva Jaganmata” (literally “Eve Mother of all living”). The Earth, the Ultimate Being, proclaims Herself to be: Pregnant Mother of the Mystery Egg, and yet the Egg (part of my mother); wife of the Egg, yet also Its midwife; Daughter of Her Father, yet also His Mother. Indeed, the “Hymn of The Mother of all Living” transports us beyond the simplistic “duality” of male and female, and beyond the Trinity of Father, Mother, and Child, to the “unity,” the “Ultimate,” the “All in One”:

“She said:
It is I (Kore) who am the part of my mother; and it is I (Earth) who am the mother.
It is I (Earth) who am the wife; it is I (Kore) who am the virgin.
It is I who am pregnant; it is I who am the midwife.
It is I who am the one that comforts pains of travail.
It is my husband who bore me; and it is I who am his mother.
And it is he who is my father and my lord.
It is he who is my force; What he desires, he says with reason.
I am in the process of becoming; yet I have borne a man as lord…”

“I am in the process of becoming.” So is the “immovable race,” our Earth and ourselves, in the process of becoming.

Some confusion arises because we have two "Father" Gods, as the generator of energy which enters all and causes growth and life. The Core-Egg is Earth Mother’s Consort and thus (to mankind) the Egg has a "Father" image. This Son/Consort role of the Hidden Egg is sometimes confused with the Sun’s role as Earth Mother’s Father/Creator, and myths become more intricately woven together when the Sun (Her Father) is also Her would be Lover/Consort. Mankind having two "Father Gods" (Earth’s Consort/Son, and Her Consort/Husband, the human psyche has rich playing fields from which to draw material for "Myths."

Elders of my people are not deceived about those who are our holy ancestors who work in service of the Great Spirit, and those ungodly ones who have abandoned the Great Spirit and devolved to be cold-blooded; they know them through direct experience, and do ceremonies to protect us from the latter group, and to receive help from the former group who await us in the Fifth World.

I Am That I Am-- You wrote: "...Do you believe that we are unworthy Upaava ???..."

I’tupko, we are all children of God and have the same opportunity to progress and reach the Fifth World according to the free will choices we make in life. We are all worthy of the opportunity, but we do not all progress at the same speed nor reach the Fifth World at the same time; and if we choose to step out of the Great Spirit’s Design, we can lose the great gift offered to us in Heaven. "Free will" suggests that we we are not forced, but must find our own way, according to our choices and where they they lead us. Nature unfolds as the Great Spirit has designed it in Creation, whether we know it or not. The reference you mention referred to our internal, spiritual progress which works together with Nature in our journeys to the Fifth World. Another word to use in place of "worthy" is “merit, which describes the process of Purication we are all going through as we make choices and receive back their consequences—opportunities to learn and grow in love and unselfishness, finally meriting the perfected life we receive in the Fifth World. Some of us learn from our experiences slowly, others progress more rapidly, while some make horrible choices to desert their Earth Mothers and Nature's Design, by going into space-time.

The idea of "merit" suggests that the quality of our Natures (how we act naturally, spontaneously) is important in measuring our progress; that those who reach the Fifth World have reached a high state of purification— a pure, loving, and unselfish nature. Those who are still learning and growing can normally continue on until they reach the loving nature which sends them to the Fifth World after death. This idea may require some re-orienting of our thinking and beliefs as tru3 has suggested earlier; it suggests another interpretation of what some organized religions have presented to us about how we progress.

But what is occurring now is the return of an ancient cycle within Nature where we will ALL have an opportunity to progress to the Fifth World; as our Earth will soon give birth to Her Egg and move to become the new Heaven. We all have the opportunity to reach the Fifth World if we will hold fast to our Earth through this final Purification Time, rejecting the snares to go into Time which will soon be upon us. This is the End Time (the coming of the space-time) that has been spoken about in the prophecies of many peoples and religions, which we are being warned about so our choices will be wise ones. At the end of this Purication each of us will have made a choice which will place us on one or the other of the two roads shown on the Hopi Prophecy Rock— the road to the Fifth World upon our Earth; or to retrograde evolution in space-time. The choices will be up to each of us.

You wrote: "...Is the above the representation of the God that you believe there is a covenant with ???....Is the "God when He/She" Baphomet who has the "Ma-ma", or "mother's breasts" ???..."

I'tupko, as I discussed with redhead, the symbols passed down to us today are subject to different interpretations, some of which have been distorted down through time. A Solar System is self-propagating; it is produced by the Sun, then consumed by the Sun, and reproduced by the Sun. This pattern perpetuates infinitely. The Egyptian symbol of the snake consuming its own tail was intended to illustrate the self-propagating nature of a Solar System. Integral to this system is the evolution of species from raw material into their final form. In our completed forms we are part of a large family serving God who gladly perform services which are indispensable to the maintenance of a Solar System, helping the younger worlds and their life to follow in our footsteps. The ceremonies of some native peoples represent each planet as a bird in the nest of our Solar System, who is sometimes known as Spider Woman. In these cosmologies, each planet is designated with its own color and sacred bird. Within the Hopi designation, our Fourth World color is turquoise, and Her sacred bird is the Great Horned Owl.

Redhead & I Am That I Am-- My native people's name means "The Peaceful, Honest People." Their lives are spent in service of the Great Spirit in everything that they do in their annual ceremonial cycle, which is performed by different clans that wortk together as a whole. Their ceremonies, together with those of peoples on other continents, help to hold our world in balance. Thier lifeways teach us to be non-violent, caring, honest and honorable people, living together harmoniously with one another and all of the Earth's life; they have spoken these same words in messages to Kings and Presidents, and in the General Assembly of the United Nations-- does this sound to you like a people who serves anything dark or ungodly?

Not all elders agree that the knowledge we are openly returning should be done now. But to some it is very clear that we should. I can only share it with you. When you see the new Time proclaimed as I have explained it to you, it will be a sign to you that this is true; but only you can decide this for yourselves, and choose whether to abandon our Earth or endure with Her. To reach the Fifth World we will need to be stronghearted, and unafraid to give up this life for the next. For, as I have described to you, life goes on after death as part of a natural process, and has no sting as long as we remain within God's/Natures Plan for Life with our Mother Earth.

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

synergy777

07-06-2007, 09:49 PM

i am indian and relate to the whole aryan/swastika fraud by hitler. the hopi prophecies about blue star/kachina etc, what do you think of them? also what you think about the sedona, the space people, crystal skulls eg synergy, also what about the energy grid system.

upaava

07-06-2007, 10:20 PM

Naangu'a Synergy, Tutskwa I'qatsi,

You wrote-- "...i am indian and relate to the whole aryan/swastika fraud by hitler. the hopi prophecies about blue star/kachina etc, what do you think of them? also what you think about the sedona, the space people, crystal skulls eg synergy, also what about the energy grid system..."

I am not qualified to speak about crystal skulls, i'tupko, as my knowledge about them is incomplete.

Our Mother Earth as a living being has Her energy centers as we have ours. Hers emanate from the enrgies and fields which are produced by Her inner Core-Heart, which some have discovered along Her surface.

As I wrote earlier, we each are children of our Earth Mother, of God within our circle of life, having equal worth. Hitler corrupted that truth by segregating peoples racially, forming his ideas of an elite race. Search your heart and you will surely find that Hitler's ideas were contrary to all that is true of life.

The Hopi prophecy that you mention is the last one to be fulfilled, all others have already come to pass, which indicates that our Fourth World (and the coming of the Fifth/Forever World) is now very close at hand. My father died before explainingg the meaning of this prophecy to me, but with the other information he provided I believe I know its meaning.

The prophecy states: "The susquasohu (Blue Star) katsina will dance in the central plaza before the unitiated." Most people believe the blue star refers to some other celestial body, but what they do not know is that the susquasohu katsina refers to our own Earth Mother-- it is one of Her names, as some people refer to our Earth as a " blue marble." I understand this final prophecy (which is a clue to its meaning) to refer to the birth of Our Mother's Egg, which is like a dance, which will be seen and felt by all of us then in the world (in the central plaza). When this occurs our Fourth World will end, as our Earth flies to the crowning orbit of our system as the new Morning Star, the brightest jewel in the sky.

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

pierre_jean

07-06-2007, 11:29 PM

Hello all, Thanks upavaa for your interventions which, I acknowledge it makes hot in the heart. I always felt an affinity with the Indian and Maya culture, I however did not study it so much, but I feel myself very near to their simple and natural relationship with the Earth. I do not want to tell my life but having been born in the Basque Country, I always wondered about the origins of my people, which remain at the present time rather mysterious.
Great will and great honor for your people to have kept this intact knowledge.
When the Basque symbol is seen one can make a parallel with the svatiska indeed.

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6098/baldosaeuskadilauburuou1.th.jpg (http://img69.imageshack.us/my.php?image=baldosaeuskadilauburuou1.jpg)

Sun symbol, spirit, life, consciousness, prosperity, some say that what produces the distinctive round heads is the wake created by the rotation of the cross, representing the elements and universe of energy. Many interpretations were given...
Would this be this small engine (propeller?) common to each existence, smaller with largest (atom to galaxies)?
I am sorry but I believe that I am off topic :eek:

upavaa, Could you (please:p) translate the words for me that you speak in your language? My curiosity is inexhaustible;) Thank you in advance and "Bonjour chez vous".

PJ

mcmenek1

08-06-2007, 12:22 AM

Ngungu'taota, Tutskwa I'qatsi,

The time frame we live in is ordained by God; it is very sacred; and it is the only route to Heaven. While we remain in our own time frame we are still in the Divine Potter’s kiln.

Our part is simple: do not embrace the change of Time to come, for though it will appear miraculous and wonderful, it is against all that is holy. Shun the dark spirits and their technology. Stay with our Earth Mother and live in the reality that we are accustomed to of the 24 hour day, the seven day week, the 12 month year; for this is the Great Spirit’s reality. This Time structure was formed by God to protect His/Her children.

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

Hi upaava,

The time frame to which you refer is a man made time frame the 12 month calendar was Last modified by Pope Gregory XIII in 1582, the Gregorian calendar is only the current world standard because it was forced on conquered indigenous peoples who lost their lands as well as their freedoms.......

The 12-month calendar is arbitrary and irregular, lacking any correspondence to actual cycles of nature.

Put simply by physicist Mark Comings:"The 12 month calendar has a cycle that is contrary to and out of phase with the natural annual 13 fold gravitational wave created by the Moon's orbit around the Earth."
This lack of harmony, though generally un-examined, has a profound effect on the way we relate to the Universe we live within.

The system of 12 months and a corresponding 12 hour : 60-minute clock, is known as the 12:60 timing frequency, and has yet to be proven as a viable measure of time. This flat perception of time does not correlate to any actual cycles of time! It is an artificial model of reality. It is encoding humanity with a comprehension of the natural world as disharmonious and non-coherent!
The Law of Time makes clear that at the root of the world's imbalance is humanity's alienation from nature. This disconnection from nature stems directly from our adherence to a false and artificial man-made frequency of time called the "12:60" : the time of the irregularly numbered calendar (12 uneven months) and the time of the mechanical clock (60 minute hour). The motto of the 12:60 paradigm is "time is money."

The instruments of the clock and calendar create an actual frequency of mechanization which is incompatible with the true patterns of nature. This disharmony manifests itself in the world as: greed, fear, sense of separation and isolation, competition, stress, materialism, exploitation, and so on. We experience the effects of living in 12:60 time both as an outer reality of environmental degradation and an inner reality of daily anxiety and a general sense of tension or dis-ease.

The unconscious adherence to mechanized time has sped up our pace of life, leading us on a ride of unprecedented acceleration. Our health and the health of all of Earth's lifeforms implores us to attune to the true rhythms of nature so that we might find our place of harmony and balance. We must re-establish Cosmos (Order) on Earth.

The Law of Time states that one common timing frequency governs and shapes all third-dimensional phenomena, that Time is actually the universal frequency of synchronization. The 13-moon/28-day calendar is the practical application of the Law of Time, and establishes a frequency of harmony, from which a culture of harmony can be actualized. Join us in the paradigm: "Time is art."

A whole-systems reconnection with nature through the adoption of a nature-based calendar system aligns our hearts, minds, and actions in synchronization with our own natural rhythms and those of the greater universe. Harmony, established as an intrinsic value of life, becomes the basis of local and global culture.

Source: http://www.13moon.com/time-is-art.htm

I have a big problem with what you are suggesting here......the time frame we have at the moment was given to us by “The Powers That Be” to enslave us and throw us out of sync. with the natural rhythm of the cosmos......the whole worlds attention is focused on G.M.T. which is controlled by “The Powers That Be” in their heartland in London

This false time frame is collapsing due to the rising vibrations that are flooding in to Earth at the moment this is why time is speeding up......it is having less of an effect on us because our vibrations are rising and we are reconnecting with the true rhythm of the cosmos.

I have been left wondering why you have suggested this........?

Love
&
Peace

tinmenace

08-06-2007, 01:31 AM

Excellent question McMenek.

tru3

08-06-2007, 03:37 AM

Our Mother Earth as a living being has Her energy centers as we have ours. Hers emanate from the enrgies and fields which are produced by Her inner Core-Heart, which some have discovered along Her surface.

the physical realm consists of the same interference patterns, infinitely varied.

in the taoist tradition, humans stand between heaven and earth. the earth is a garden, not a person, not a mommy, but a mutually beneficial, and dynamic yet stable, feedback system, each element wonderfully unique, but interacting and interpenetrating.

as within, so without. as above, so below.

native american ceremonies include hoop dancing, with as many as fifteen hoops in a set. interestingly enough, that's the number of great circles in the earth's energy grid.

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/1053/hoopgridna3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

these lines of energy penetrate into the magnetic core of the planet, which, according to some theories, is also shaped like a dodecahedron. it's the one on the bottom left.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~imaging/polyhi_6.gif

what if, just what if, the core, the 'egg' (i'm sorry, i just can't help but think of mothra-- please return the egg. it makes me smile. :) ) is making a transition to an icosasedronic structure. that's the one one the right of the first. much more of a complex structure, the harmonics required. i believe that's a shift from a harmonic of five, to a harmonic of eight.

so, my point is that regardless of how it shows up, we're a part of divine unfolding of Consciousness, embedded, as it were, in matter, in ways the god programmers, the loomies, the macrobes, wotteva, could never have anticipated.

here's the good news folks: we win. :) we can make it easy, or we can make it hard.

all of time is full and complete in the infinite Self. we're just going back at slow motion to see why we made the choices we did. we make time, because we need it.

i am all i am

08-06-2007, 06:30 AM

I Am That I Am-- You wrote: "...Do you believe that we are unworthy Upaava ???..."

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

G'day Upaava.

What is the purpose that you have by replacing "All" with "That" in the ID ???

It is obviously not a spelling mistake, but a purposeful use of a different word. The letters T and H are in the centre of the keyboard and A and L are on either side of the keyboard. So, as I have said, it is not a simple spelling mistake, but something done for a purpose.

http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

i am all i am

08-06-2007, 06:57 AM

I Am That I Am-- You wrote: "...Do you believe that we are unworthy Upaava ???..."

I’tupko, we are all children of God and have the same opportunity to progress and reach the Fifth World according to the free will choices we make in life. We are all worthy of the opportunity, but we do not all progress at the same speed nor reach the Fifth World at the same time; and if we choose to step out of the Great Spirit’s Design, we can lose the great gift offered to us in Heaven. "Free will" suggests that we we are not forced, but must find our own way, according to our choices and where they they lead us. Nature unfolds as the Great Spirit has designed it in Creation, whether we know it or not. The reference you mention referred to our internal, spiritual progress which works together with Nature in our journeys to the Fifth World. Another word to use in place of "worthy" is “merit, which describes the process of Purication we are all going through as we make choices and receive back their consequences—opportunities to learn and grow in love and unselfishness, finally meriting the perfected life we receive in the Fifth World. Some of us learn from our experiences slowly, others progress more rapidly, while some make horrible choices to desert their Earth Mothers and Nature's Design, by going into space-time.

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

G'day Upaava.

So, you believe that we are unworthy and that we have to earn a place in heaven.

This is the same belief that the christian religion has, that is, we are born in sin (unworthy) and that we have to earn the right to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Are you merely promoting another aspect of the same religious doctrine/dogma ???

Is this why you quote the bible ???

Which bible do you make reference to in your quotes and why do you believe it to be a source that has relevance to anything other than indoctrination and control of individuals ???

http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

i am all i am

08-06-2007, 07:14 AM

You wrote: "...Is the above the representation of the God that you believe there is a covenant with ???....Is the "God when He/She" Baphomet who has the "Ma-ma", or "mother's breasts" ???..."

I'tupko, as I discussed with redhead, the symbols passed down to us today are subject to different interpretations, some of which have been distorted down through time. A Solar System is self-propagating; it is produced by the Sun, then consumed by the Sun, and reproduced by the Sun. This pattern perpetuates infinitely. The Egyptian symbol of the snake consuming its own tail was intended to illustrate the self-propagating nature of a Solar System. Integral to this system is the evolution of species from raw material into their final form. In our completed forms we are part of a large family serving God who gladly perform services which are indispensable to the maintenance of a Solar System, helping the younger worlds and their life to follow in our footsteps. The ceremonies of some native peoples represent each planet as a bird in the nest of our Solar System, who is sometimes known as Spider Woman. In these cosmologies, each planet is designated with its own color and sacred bird. Within the Hopi designation, our Fourth World color is turquoise, and Her sacred bird is the Great Horned Owl.

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

G'day Upaava.

You refer to a "Solar System" as going through the same transition of birth, death and resurrection as Jesus does. Jesus is refered to as the S(u)n of God.

Do you, as many christians do, correlate Jesus as being God ???

Are you offering another version of the worship of the sun ???

Or is it the same version with the names having been altered ???

http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

redhead

08-06-2007, 05:28 PM

Ngungu'taota, Tutskwa I'qatsi,

I thank you for taking the time to answer my questions, and i resonate with your answers.

Thank you my earth brother.

PEACE

RED

synergy777

08-06-2007, 05:45 PM

the swastika is symbol of vedic culture, a global culture from africa, asia, america and europa. the lunar 13 mth calendar is followed by asian, hindus, sikhs and muslims use it for cultural/religous stuff and georgian for business, society.as for the synergy crystal skull, sedona, heres the link bro, tell me what you think?

http://www.crystal-skull.com/

bluestar, was also the name given to an operation aginst sikhs, also blue light is from newborn stars. so could bluestar mean ressurection/remberence of a soul, which when awakened helps to return peace, unite all peoples etc, hence blue star, new star. the thing i find confusing about this messiah/star child stuff, who in their right mind would think they are the one, its very egotistical, arroggant, narcassitic, heck anyone thought they were the one,they would need/seek medical help etc. paranoia, illusions of self grandeur etc

also the indian talk about alien type people living in caves aswell reptiles/fallen eg sedona. also the story that they, pueblos etc came out of the earth, after dwelling underground, do you know anything about this bro? i have always had interest in sedona, merlin, mythology etc, so your input would be greatly appreciated bro. also kachina/krishna/kalki ?

http://www.swastik.org/

http://www.swastik.org/above16.htm

1 love, peace

da renn

08-06-2007, 07:46 PM

"The Wisdom Of Native Peoples"
While they retain much natural earth-spiritual wisdom that we in the western world have completely lost touch with- for the most part- and they have much to teach us, they are also subject to the overlaying "matrix" system and the "Time Loop" that David Icke has written about, and which insight makes a lotta mad stuff clear in this- totally- loopy world!

bigus_dickus

08-06-2007, 08:05 PM

i have my own theory, called "office".

office (not microsoft's), is pronounced the same as 'ofis', which in greek means 'snake', so when you say "office", you are saying "snake" in greek.

humans, didn't know office.. but they heard of it somehow. someone came and told them about it. so they decided to see for themselves how it is. so they took the office in their reality. there was no way to create an office, if there weren't any lies, because all offices are based on lies, as that stranger said. so many lies were created and many offices got established on top of these lies.

and then they ended up with offices about anything, banks were offices, police were offices, governments were offices, churches were offices.. even marriages started to become offices. there was no life without offices, but no knowledge either because schools and hospitals and universities and libraries were offices too. and then there was a time when offices was their own homes, with their computers connected to the biggest office of the world, the officenet. ahem.. internet.

and so, office became alive and became a being on its own that sought to control its creators, by deceiving them by their own means, by making them humans a giant office themselves. so that the office will be alive and have a soul through them.

humans have been trying to free themselves from office, but they couldn't, or it was very hard, because they were believing that they needed office in order to be humans. so they were going back to office all the time because they believed it served them and they were blaming it all the time, because they didn't remember that it was based on lies. and they had no idea what would happen next.. some believed that office would devour all of them, some believed that they would be saved by their space brothers, some didn't care and went for vacations.

and then.. as a miracle, the sun shined brighter and vibrations started to rise. and everything started heating up and vibrating quickly. the water was evaporating, the ice was melting, everything becoming lighter. and, as a miracle, humans' voices became to sound as if they have inhaled helium and sounded like smurfs.. and everyone started laughing each time they tried to talk.. and then.. office magically dissolved in eternal laughter.

oh that was on another planet by the way, once upon a time.

da renn

08-06-2007, 08:11 PM

Hmm, Okay mate, i see what'ya sayin. It's also much the same on this planet!
NOW upon a time.

upaava

09-06-2007, 06:37 AM

Ngungu'taota (greetings we are relatives addressing many people), Tutskwa I'qatsi (Land [the Earth] is Life),

pierre jean-- Here are some of the words that you asked to have translated: i'tupko (my brother), i'siwa (my sister), kwakway (thank you), ta'a (yes), naawakna nihqe kyaptsita (love and respect), umumi pam taaviningwu (may the Sun always shine on you-- this relates to always remaining with our Mother Earth where the Sun shines upon us, rather than choosing to go into the unnatural Time structure where we can devolve to live as cold blooded entities that must live in darkness). If there are other words I have missed, let me know and I will translate them for you (which I have tried to do as I have gone along).

mcmenek-- you wrote: "...The time frame to which you refer is a man made time frame the 12 month calendar was Last modified by Pope Gregory XIII in 1582, the Gregorian calendar is only the current world standard because it was forced on conquered indigenous peoples who lost their lands as well as their freedoms..."

Kwakway for the very fine discussion of how the calendar has been changed over time. Itupko, it is not the calendar system that we follow that matters. Any of them unfold allowing us to live, die, and evolve upon our Earth as the Great Spirit has made it for us. The new Time Structure that we will soon be lured to go into is different; we cannot live and die there evolving forward as we do here. There, life is prolonged for very, very long periods compared to upon our Earth Mother; but death finally does come there (including by accidents) and when you die there you devolve into those cold blooded ones who must live in darkness.

The course of life is unnatural in the space-time world; it takes us out of Nature as designed for us to finally reach our perfected forms in the Fifth Worlds. The important thing to take away is that the natural unfolding time we have here is meant for us to use, and has been used by us for many ages as we have progressed to the near completed forms we have now we call Homo sapiens. We can receive our final, perfected, angelic forms when we endure with the Earth to the Fifth World. Before that occurs, we will all have to choose whether to gpo into the ancient Time reality which has sevcretly been used for ages, and which will soon be seductively offered to all of us. With wisdom we will choose the Earth we have now-- with Her unfolding time-- which will soon take us Home.

i am all i am-- i'tupko, I am very sorry that I have not used your correct name. This was my mistake. I recently saw a program which showed Moses and the Burning Bush, where he asks for God to give His/Her name. The reply given was "I AM THAT I AM." This name was in the back of my mind when I read yours, which was similar, and I wrongly substituted the name given to Moses. I will be careful not to make that error again.

you wrote: "...So, you believe that we are unworthy and that we have to earn a place in heaven. This is the same belief that the christian religion has, that is, we are born in sin (unworthy) and that we have to earn the right to enter the kingdom of heaven..."

I'tupko, we are all worthy, but that does not mean that we all choose wisely with the free will we have been given to use. Ta'a, yes, those who reach the Fifth World have reached a high degree of purification. However, the native worldview may be different from the assumptions you are making from within a different view of life and how we progress within Nature. The native view of my people is trhat we have ,ived many lifetimes; that we do not learn and grow in love and unselfishness in one lifetime-- this opportunity occurs over many lifetimes, as we learn from our choices and the consequences they return to us, as our natures become purer and purer. Those who finally at-one with our inner spiritual spark go on to the Fifth World following death.

When we truly believe in those who have taught us the loving way to live, we live in that way, which finally takes us to the Fifth World according to the beliefs of my native people.

Sin might be defined as knowingly choosing to break the Laws of the Universe as the Great Spirit has designed it for us. When we are offered (lured or tempted) to abandon our Earth and the Time God has given us with Her into space-time, we will be choosing to fremain withoin the Great Spirit's Laws, or to step out of them. I have alresady explained what going into space-time will mean for us. We are all being warned of the temptations to come so we can choose wisely and go on to the Fifth World.

you wrote: "...Which bible do you make reference to in your quotes and why do you believe it to be a source that has relevance to anything other than indoctrination and control of individuals ???..."

Although much that was once given in ancient books has been removed from our present day Judeo Christian bible, truths still remain, and can be found in the non-canonized books retained and rediscovered today. Truth is separate from organized religion, and has been given in revelation to different children of our Earth throughout the past. My native father often discussed his religion with those who were of the religious orders of many religions, finding many parallels between some of them and his own.

Most of my quotes from the New Testament come from the King James version, although some are from different translations, and as mentioned, from non-canonized books such as the Apocrypha and others which were extant before Church authorities chose to remove them.

(Continued in next post)

upaava

09-06-2007, 06:37 AM

(Continued from previous post)

you wrote-- "...Are you offering another version of the worship of the sun ??? Or is it the same version with the names having been altered ???..."

I'tupko, if you will re-read what I have written you will see that the focus is upon our Earth Mother. What my native people have kept is the ancient knowledge that our Earth is a living expression of the Great Spirit whose life/awareness ensouls all of the universe; and that our living Earth has carried us from our earliest beginnings to the near perfected forms we have been evolved to today. Rather than seeing evolution and creation as opposing concepts, it is best to view them as part of a single process operating together within the design of the Great Spirit. Then you can see our world in a new light, where the entire vista of humankind’s past-- from the earliest beginnings of life to our present Homo sapien form-- purposefully unfolds toward a future destiny governed by Nature, and hoped for each of us upon our mother worlds.

you wrote-- "...You refer to a "Solar System" as going through the same transition of birth, death and resurrection as Jesus does. Jesus is refered to as the S(u)n of God. Do you, as many christians do, correlate Jesus as being God ???..."

To reach our completions in Heaven we must always remain within the womb of the Earth, like a caterpillar must remain within its cocoon until it receives its completed form as a butterfly. Nature has rooted us within the Earth, body and soul, as we have been progressively evolved from our earliest stages of life toward our completed, eternal forms in the Fifth World— we are the root and offspring of our Earth:

Many of those who read these pages are God loving people who follow their own religions as best as they can, trusting in the faiths they follow. What is being returned to us, if I am explaining it well, should help illuminate the truths found within all religions. Within Nature’s design, following “The Sacred Path of Migration,” life is progressed upon each world to a perfected form in the Morning Star orbits, which in our system is now held by the planet we call Venus. According tpo our knowledge, when we reach this exalted place, we have become pure, loving souls, serving as guardians of the Creator’s universal plan for life unfolding upon the “younger” worlds of ours and other Solar Systems. My native people were given their original instructions by one they call the ”caretaker of the Earth” (also "True Brother" and a name which means "Father Death") who is prophesied to return at the end of this Fourth World. Other religions have similar figures who also are said to return at the end of the world, taking those to Paradise who have lived in a loving and unselfish way, having maintained their covenants with the Creator.

Within the knowledge I have been given to share with you, as I was taught, there is an elder brother, a perfected soul from the Morning Star/Fifth World/Heaven who has been guiding and guarding our world, and has repeatedly returned through the ages to help our Earth and Her life to reach the Fifth World-Heaven. He has been known by different names to different peoples and religions. He is born as one of us, facing all of the same trials and hardships as any upon the Earth as a true brother. During his life he becomes One with the Life and Power of God within the Heart-Soul of our Earth (existing throughout our Living Universe). He is then become the incarnate Earth-Heart-Core, the Christos, the Sun and the Son. As become One with our Earth’s sacred Heart, he can call upon Her power, God’s power, to cause changes in weather, to help to heal, and to produce other
“miracles”-- it is recorded in ancient records that the apostles of Jesus were carried by the Romans so that their feet could not touch the ground; for "from the Earth do they receive power from their master.” As he is the incarnate Sacred Heart/Core; so is his mother the incarnate Earth Mother.

It is told that when this elder brother comes clothed in all the frailties of man, facing every temptation of man, he strives unto death to overcome the world, to live a perfect life; and upon succeeding— having become one with the Earth’s Core-Heart-Soul and thus all the Earth’s life-- die for us (as he has done many times through the ages), redeeming the world so it— and all those who faithfully endure with Her-- can finally take up the throne of exaltation in the Fifth World, the place of the Morning Star. As we are the root and offspring of our own Earth Mother, so is he the root and offspring of the previous Fifth World, known as "David," the earlier Morning Star. As written at the end of the Book of Revelations:

"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star." (22:16, Peshitta).

Jewish People wear a six-pointed symbol called the “Star of David,” most without realizing the deeper meaning that this symbol holds to us.

Kwakway, thank you for your good questions, some of which I am sure that many people here would like to know. Although there are relatively few posting in this thread, there appears to be many more silently reading.

redhead-- Your kind words are very much appreciated. I am happy to hear that some of the words I have shared have been meaningful for you.

synergy-- you wrote: "...so could bluestar mean ressurection/remberence of a soul, which when awakened helps to return peace, unite all peoples etc, hence blue star, new star. also the story that they, pueblos etc came out of the earth, after dwelling underground, do you know anything about this bro?..."

bluestar-- only in the sense that in remembering the source of our lives in the Earth we can be reuinted as one family, one circle of life, which returns to living in the balanced and loving way we have originally been guided to do.

The emergence from within the Earth spoken about by some native peoples, refers to returning from the Spirit Home or Core-Heart-Soul of our Earth as I have earlier explained. This relates to our resurrections from lifetime to lifetime within a given Age-World, and following a Purification when all of those who have endured with our Earth are returned to new life and the progressed bodies evolved/adapted to live in the new orbit closer to the Sun.

da renn-- you wrote: "...While they retain much natural earth-spiritual wisdom that we in the western world have completely lost touch with- for the most part- and they have much to teach us, they are also subject to the overlaying "matrix" system and the "Time Loop" that David Icke has written about, and which insight makes a lotta mad stuff clear in this- totally- loopy world!..."

I'tupko, although it is good to expose the dark elements that have been secretly influencing our world, we should not dwell upon them, especially to the exclusion or devaluing of the holy presence and purpose within Life, for which our Earth exists. As written in the Apocrypha, Book of Esdras:

"...And therefore be thou not curious how the ungodly shall be punished, and when: but enquire how the righteous shall be saved, whose the world is, and for whom the world is created..." (9:13)

My native people have long known about the space-time we are not meant to use, in their honoring of the Directions; and, as I wrote earlier, work throughout the year to offset the negative conditions wrought in our world by those who work against us.

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

pierre_jean

09-06-2007, 03:18 PM

kwakway i'tupko for your translations ;)
I advise the film Koyaanisqatsi made in 1982 for those which did not see it.
Superb images which say some more than one long speech (I do not refer to your posts upavaa :p)
(koy-yan-iss-katsi) means Life Out of Balance in Hopi that about which you already spoke. This film was scored by Philip Glass, produced & directed by Godfrey Reggio. Moreover, it is a trilogy.
http://www.koyaanisqatsi.org/

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5075/homephotosgifgj1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

"If we dig precious things from the land, we will invite disaster.
Near the Day of Purification, there will be cobwebs
spun back and forth it the sky.
A container of ashes might one day be thrown
from the sky, which could burn the land
and boil the oceans."

Translation of the Hopi Prophecies sung in the film.

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita

PJ

i am all i am

09-06-2007, 06:44 PM

i am all i am-- i'tupko, I am very sorry that I have not used your correct name. This was my mistake. I recently saw a program which showed Moses and the Burning Bush, where he asks for God to give His/Her name. The reply given was "I AM THAT I AM." This name was in the back of my mind when I read yours, which was similar, and I wrongly substituted the name given to Moses. I will be careful not to make that error again.

G'day Upaava.

The name of 'God' in the old testament translated as 'I Am That I Am', can also be translated as 'I Am Who I Am' and 'I Am Which I Am'.

The bible also refers to the 'Gods', Elohim being a plural. Do you believe that there is one God or many Gods ???

Most of my quotes from the New Testament come from the King James version...

Here is an excerpt from the 'Bible Fraud' by Tony Bushby that explains where the King James version of the bible comes from...

Sir Francis Bacon (1561 –1626) was a man of many talents, a lawyer, linguist and composer. He mastered every subject he undertook; mathematics, geometry, music, poetry, painting, astronomy, classical drama and poetry, philosophy, history, theology and architecture. He was a man of many aims and purposes, the father of modern science, remodeler of modern law, patron of modern democracy, and possibly the reviver of Freemasonry. His life and works are extensively documented, and his intellectual accomplishments widely recognized, particularly in academic circles. At the age of sixteen, he was sent to Paris ‘direct from the Queens Hand ’ and there studied Egyptian, Arabian, Indian and Greek philosophy with particular attention given to the Ancient Mysteries and their Ritual Rites. He personally recorded that, while in Paris, he created a secret cipher system that could be inserted into a document without arousing suspicion. While living in Europe, Francis Bacon was initiated into the mysterious Order of the Knights Templar and learnt a very special secret. Before he returned to London, he travelled to France, Italy, Germany and Spain and at the age of twenty completely devoted himself to the study of law. From his understanding of the secret information he had learned during his initiation into the Knights Templar, he conceived the idea of reactivating various Secret Societies and in 1580 founded the secret Rosicrosse Literary Society in Gray ’s Inn. Later in the same year, he founded the Lodge of Free and Accepted or Speculative Masons,also at Gray ’s Inn.

On 25 June 1607 Sir Francis Bacon was appointed Solicitor-General and Chief Advisor to the Crown. He had presented new ideas to the Government for the Reformation of the church and was officially instructed to commence restructuring the Bible. Research in the Records Office of the British Museum revealed that original documents still exist which refer to important proceedings associated with Sir Francis Bacon ’s involvement with the editing of both the Old and New Testaments. They revealed that he personally selected and paid the revisers of the New Testament who completed their task under the instructions of Bacon ’s long-time friend,Dr Andrews. Statue of the editor of the Bible, Sir Francis Bacon. © Photography:Thomas L.Lithgow,Esq.

The first English language manuscripts of the Bible remained in Bacon ’s possession for nearly a year. During that time:

...he hammered the various styles of the translators into the unity, rhythm, and music of Shakespearean prose, wrote the Prefaces and created the whole scheme of the Authorized Version.6

He also encoded secret information into both the Old and New Testament. An ancient document recorded that the true history of early Christianity was known to the initiates of the Order of the Knights Templar, having originally been:

...imparted to Hugh de Payens by the Grand-Pontiff of the Order of the Temple (of the Nazarene sect), one named Theocletes, after which it was learned by some Knights in Palestine.7

Regarding the months of editing work applied to the Bible by Bacon, his biographer, William T.Smedley, confirmed the extent of the editing:

It will eventually be proved that the whole structure of the Authorised Bible was Francis Bacon’s. He was an ardent student not only of the Bible, but also of early manuscripts.St Augustine, St Jerome, and writers of theological works, were studied by him with industry.8

At the completion of the editing, Sir Francis Bacon and King James I had a series of meetings to finalise editorial matters associated with the new Bible. It was at this time that King James ordered a ‘Dedication to the King ’ to be drawn up and included in the opening pages. He also wanted the phrase ‘Appointed to be read in the Churches ’ to appear on the title page. This was an announcement clarifying that King James had personally given the church ‘Special Command ’ for this particular version of the Bible to be used in preference to the vast array of Greek and Latin Vulgate Bibles current at the time. His reason was personal, as King James had previously instructed the revisers to ‘defend the position of the king ’ in their restructuring of the texts. This was seen as an attempt to distance the Protestant Bible from the Catholic version. The Protestant versions of the Bible are thinner by seven books than the Catholic version and the variant churches have never agreed on a uniform Bible. In their translation of 1 Peter 2:13 the revisors changed the phrase ‘the emperor, as supreme’ to ‘the king, as supreme’. Because King James ’ Bible was written to support the authority of a king, the later church often referred to it as the one from ‘authority’, and it later came to be presented as if officially ‘authorised’. In subsequent revisions, the word ‘authorised ’ found its way onto the title page and later still came to be printed on the cover, giving King James’ new Bible a false sense of authenticity.

The King James Bible is considered by many today to be the ‘original ’ Bible and therefore ‘genuine ’ and all later revisions simply counterfeits forged by ‘higher critics’. Others think the King James Bible is ‘authentic’ and ‘authorised’ and presents the original words of the authors as translated into English from the ‘original’ Greek text. However,the ‘original' Greek text was not written until around the mid-Fourth Century and was a revised edition of writings compiled decades earlier in Aramaic and Hebrew. Those earlier documents no longer exist 9 and the Bibles we have today are five linguistic removes from the first Bibles written. What was written in the ‘original originals’ is quite unknown. It is important to remember that the words ‘authorised’ and ‘original ’, as applied to the Bible, do not mean ‘genuine’, ‘authentic’ or ‘true’.

http://www.joshuabooks.com/bushby/biblefraud/internalgif/sample.htm

How can you know what parts were changed, altered or completely fabricated within this version of the new testament ???

http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

i am all i am

09-06-2007, 07:15 PM

.....we are the root and offspring of our Earth.....

G'day Upaava.

Actually, I Am Soul and this physical body is merely a holographic image representing Who I Am. The earth did not give birth to Who I Am and this physical body I chose to use as a vehicle to express and experience Who I Am within this reality we call life.

http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif[/QUOTE]

upaava

09-06-2007, 08:31 PM

Ngungu'lawu ("greetings we are relatives" spoken to two people), Tutskwa I'qatsi,

pierre jean-- kwakway for sharing the film "Koyaanisqatsi" with us; and for speaking about your Basque people and their ancient origins (I did some reading about them after your earlier post).

The warning you quoted referred to those who were seeking to exploit Hopi lands, and to build modern "improvements" which would dig into the earth in the surrounding areas. Certain sacred objects are buried in those areas, which if disturbed could bring on "reactions" from the Earth.

The following is from a website which quoted the speech given by the Hopi elder Thomas Banyacya in the United Nations in 1993 which I thought you might like to read:

"...The night before the presentations of the native people from around
the world to the General Assembly, there was a total eclipse of the
moon over New York City and the sky was clear. The evening after
the presentation by Mr Banyacya and the other native spokespersons,
heavy rain and strong wind began. The weathermen had been calling
for a snowstorm but what came the following day were the worst
floods in New York's memory. Major highways were washed away by the
sea and the United Nations itself experienced flooding of its lower
subfloors, forcing a shutdown of its heating and air conditioning
and all personnel were dismissed at three o'clock.

In the ground floor meeting room, where on December 11, native
peoples were meeting representatives of various UN agencies, Thomas
Banyacya spontaneously called on all the participants, including UN
officials, to form a great circle. All the Elders were in the
center and Thomas called in some non-native people as well. Each
silently said a prayer. The forming of the circle of unity of all
people from the four corners of the Earth was more than just a
symbolic act. One participant said she had never felt herself to be
in such a safe place. Later, several people present noted that no
further storm damage occurred in Manhattan and that the storm
itself abated that afternoon..."

i am all i am-- kwakway for sharing with us the different translations of the name of God given in the Old Testament.

You wrote: "...The bible also refers to the 'Gods', Elohim being a plural. Do you believe that there is one God or many Gods ???..."

My people believe there is One Great Spirit which we call Taiowa, who ensouls all of Creation, making the Living Universe I have spoken about earlier; and that that Great Spirit has designed the Universe to act in a dynamic and purposeful way which progresses life to its completed-incorruptible form in the Fifth World-Morning Star-Heaven, as life evolves upon each mother world (such as our own Earth Mother).

You wrote: "...How can you know what parts were changed, altered or completely fabricated within this version of the new testament ???..."

I'tupko, the King James quotes that are used are ones that fit with and describe our own teachings. Many other quotes come from earlier books (non-canonized) for the same reasons. Note that the quote about "the root and offspring of David" comes from the Peshitta translation, which is one of the earliest, deriving from the original Aramaic.

You wrote-- "...Actually, I Am Soul and this physical body is merely a holographic image representing Who I Am. The earth did not give birth to Who I Am and this physical body I chose to use as a vehicle to express and experience Who I Am within this reality we call life..."

Our people give importance to what is occurring within the Universe and Nature, and not to mystically transcending it. We believe that there is purpose in the cycles of Nature, which is progressing us in both bodily form and inner awareness (always together in Creation); and that we are now very near to receiving our completed, perfected forms with our Earth when She ascends to become the new Heaven or Fifth World.

Let me explain my understanding of our souls: the soul is the record of all of our past experiences and learning, which is transferred to our new bodies from our last ones (which were held within the Soul/Life of our Earth) in the following way:

Each person begins life as a single cell, which is formed by the combining of an egg cell (gamete) and a sperm cell. From this small beginning the fertilized cell replicates and the completed human body contains about a hundred million, million cells. The original fertilized cell consists of half the somatic (physical/corporeal) information of the female parent and half the somatic information of the male parent; thus the embryo inherits only physical properties from its parents. In human beings, all cells, except the sex cells, contain 46 chromosomes, (two sets of 23 chromosomes). If we think of
chromosomes as storage space, half the storage space (23 chromosomes) contains the instructions on how to build a body and the other half contains the individual's innate knowledge. Thus, half of the storage space in our chromosomes is used for storing somatic information and the other half is given over to storing information from our past lives.

Sex cells contain only 23 chromosomes, the chromosomes which store somatic information; however, for a cell to reproduce it must have 46 chromosomes because the embryo needs the full quota of storage space in which to pack both the somatic information inherited from his parents, and the accumulated information from his past lives. As soon as an egg and a sperm cell fuse, and the full complement of chromosomes, (all of which contain somatic information at this point of development) are in place, replication begins. The fertilized cell divides into two, then the two cells divide into four, the four cells divide into eight and the continuation of this process results in the trillions of cells that make up a human body.

All the information in the chromosomes of a fertilized sex cell is of the type which determines the physical inheritance of the embryo. Only later, when development is well under way, does the innate information enter the chromosomes of the embryo. This innate information is the essence, identity, or soul, of the embryo; and it comes to the developing embryo directly from the body it inhabited in its previous life. In the third month of development the essence enters the embryo. The soul of a "dead" body overrides the information in 23 of the chromosomes in each cell of the developing fetus, and the "dead" person once again awaits his return into the world.

When a cell divides, each of the new cells gets a copy of the master plan. The master plan is stored in the nucleus in a substance called deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA). DNA molecules are arranged into a double helical thread held together by cross-pieces and wound like a spring. DNA stores a vast amount of information. All the experiences and learning of a person's past lives are stored in DNA as innate knowledge; and though this information is not accessible to consciousness, it governs a person's instincts. The instinctive way in which we respond to events depends on the accumulation of this "secret" information which is stored in our DNA. A man who has been a beggar in one of his past lives may be more sympathetic to a beggar than a man who has not had the experience. "May," because some people are kind to beggars without having experienced the misery of their circumstances.

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

king

09-06-2007, 08:52 PM

hi upaava

you wrote: “but death finally does come there (including by accidents) and when you die there you devolve into those cold blooded ones who must live in darkness. “

are you referring to a place that Christians call Hell?
Can you explain how this process work; does it take reincarnations to devolve or is it done within one’s lifetime?

you wrote: “The course of life is unnatural in the space-time world; it takes us out of Nature as designed for us to finally reach our perfected forms in the Fifth Worlds. The important thing to take away is that the natural unfolding time we have here is meant for us to use, and has been used by us for many ages as we have progressed to the near completed forms we have now we call Homo sapiens. We can receive our final, perfected, angelic forms when we endure with the Earth to the Fifth World. Before that occurs, we will all have to choose whether to gpo into the ancient Time reality which has sevcretly been used for ages, and which will soon be seductively offered to all of us. With wisdom we will choose the Earth we have now-- with Her unfolding time-- which will soon take us Home.”

so, is this ancient time reality something that is offered to us after every cosmic cycle?
And can you explain in a few short details differences between third, fourth and fifth worlds. I read all thread but I am not fully grasping it.

And, how does one go to another world. I cannot understand the process, how do we make a “jump” or “switch” to another world?
Are many already living in 5-th world with all their technology that they accept as their reality or it it something else?
Is microchipping of humans intended to move people to 5th world or???
I guess I am not getting what different wolds are and how do we make a jump, so I am totally confused.

you wrote: “What my native people have kept is the ancient knowledge that our Earth is a living expression of the Great Spirit whose life/awareness ensouls all of the universe; and that our living Earth has carried us from our earliest beginnings to the near perfected forms we have been evolved to today. Rather than seeing evolution and creation as opposing concepts, it is best to view them as part of a single process operating together within the design of the Great Spirit. Then you can see our world in a new light, where the entire vista of humankind’s past-- from the earliest beginnings of life to our present Homo sapien form-- purposefully unfolds toward a future destiny governed by Nature, and hoped for each of us upon our mother worlds.”

this, I am “getting” , it makes sense to me. So, how do we reconnect with mother earth? I actually do feel connected with earth, but in same time I live in the world that is very disconnected from her.
But, because I do not feel connected to those who accept B.S, reality,
which is overwhelming majority I think I am on right track.
In a sense I live in this world but I am not of this world.
My heart connects to people like you and many others who are
first spiritual, then all the rest. I cannot even tell you how much I love those people, and religion, color, creed or their personal beliefs are all welcomed. I do not understand why people direct so much energy in pointing out religious differences and squabbling over it.
What difference does it make if you believe in religion A or religion B or your own thing as long as you are a good soul and have respect for other like minded people?

Now, I also do not understand the following;
We know that evil ones worship earth?
you know, the Gaia worship, as pushed by “illuminated ones”
For example Al Gore is pushing the agenda of Gaia worship, yet he is
one of the major freemasons, or illuminated ones.

I know that American Native Indians always had respect for earth, so what is the difference in how American Natives and say Illuminati are seeing the mother earth?
I think that many others are silently wondering about that one.

you wrote: “Many of those who read these pages are God loving people who follow their own religions as best as they can, trusting in the faiths they follow. What is being returned to us, if I am explaining it well, should help illuminate the truths found within all religions. “

Now, this I understand perfectly! like I said earlier -- it does not matter what you believe as long as you are a good human and you are not hurting anyone with your beliefs. And, majority of the people
are seeing the world in black and white, good and bad, no shades of gray. I know that this is absolutely false, even enemies of humanity spill the truth, so why would not a religious text or a custom or a belief contain many underlying truths?
We need to get out of black and white mode of thinking, me thinks.

you wrote: “Within Nature’s design, following “The Sacred Path of Migration,” life is progressed upon each world to a perfected form in the Morning Star orbits, which in our system is now held by the planet we call Venus. According tpo our knowledge, when we reach this exalted place, we have become pure, loving souls, serving as guardians of the Creator’s universal plan for life unfolding upon the “younger” worlds of ours and other Solar Systems. My native people were given their original instructions by one they call the ”caretaker of the Earth” (also "True Brother" and a name which means "Father Death") who is prophesied to return at the end of this Fourth World. Other religions have similar figures who also are said to return at the end of the world, taking those to Paradise who have lived in a loving and unselfish way, having maintained their covenants with the Creator.”
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star." (22:16, Peshitta).

how is planet Venus, “the morning star”, or “Lucifer” linked with other belief systems? I think that this is a really muddy area that many people do not understand. Can you shed some light on it?

what is the difference between Jesus, the morning star and Lucifer the morning star?

you wrote: “'tupko, although it is good to expose the dark elements that have been secretly influencing our world, we should not dwell upon them, especially to the exclusion or devaluing of the holy presence and purpose within Life, for which our Earth exists. As written in the Apocrypha, Book of Esdras:

"...And therefore be thou not curious how the ungodly shall be punished, and when: but enquire how the righteous shall be saved, whose the world is, and for whom the world is created..." (9:13)

My native people have long known about the space-time we are not meant to use, in their honoring of the Directions; and, as I wrote earlier, work throughout the year to offset the negative conditions wrought in our world by those who work against us.”

that is a great advice, something that i began to realize years ago.

I feel that there is a purpose for each of us and once we discover that purpose we need to pursue it.

thank you my brother for sharing your knowledge and wisdom.

da renn

09-06-2007, 08:54 PM

Nice. But "native" peoples are STILL so immersed in these matrix dominated dimensions (the illuminati dominatrix!) and cannot be wholly trusted, overall..... They still have to KILL for physical sustenance! Acceptable given the circumstances. But it ain't WHOLLY necessary to have to kill & eat other forms of life, not SPIRITUALLY!
The world around us is is warped- outlandishly!

i am all i am

09-06-2007, 09:02 PM

you wrote-- "...You refer to a "Solar System" as going through the same transition of birth, death and resurrection as Jesus does. Jesus is refered to as the S(u)n of God. Do you, as many christians do, correlate Jesus as being God ???..."

Many of those who read these pages are God loving people who follow their own religions as best as they can, trusting in the faiths they follow. What is being returned to us, if I am explaining it well, should help illuminate the truths found within all religions. Within Nature’s design, following “The Sacred Path of Migration,” life is progressed upon each world to a perfected form in the Morning Star orbits, which in our system is now held by the planet we call Venus. According tpo our knowledge, when we reach this exalted place, we have become pure, loving souls, serving as guardians of the Creator’s universal plan for life unfolding upon the “younger” worlds of ours and other Solar Systems. My native people were given their original instructions by one they call the ”caretaker of the Earth” (also "True Brother" and a name which means "Father Death") who is prophesied to return at the end of this Fourth World. Other religions have similar figures who also are said to return at the end of the world, taking those to Paradise who have lived in a loving and unselfish way, having maintained their covenants with the Creator.

Within the knowledge I have been given to share with you, as I was taught, there is an elder brother, a perfected soul from the Morning Star/Fifth World/Heaven who has been guiding and guarding our world, and has repeatedly returned through the ages to help our Earth and Her life to reach the Fifth World-Heaven. He has been known by different names to different peoples and religions. He is born as one of us, facing all of the same trials and hardships as any upon the Earth as a true brother. During his life he becomes One with the Life and Power of God within the Heart-Soul of our Earth (existing throughout our Living Universe). He is then become the incarnate Earth-Heart-Core, the Christos, the Sun and the Son. As become One with our Earth’s sacred Heart, he can call upon Her power, God’s power, to cause changes in weather, to help to heal, and to produce other
“miracles”-- it is recorded in ancient records that the apostles of Jesus were carried by the Romans so that their feet could not touch the ground; for "from the Earth do they receive power from their master.” As he is the incarnate Sacred Heart/Core; so is his mother the incarnate Earth Mother.

It is told that when this elder brother comes clothed in all the frailties of man, facing every temptation of man, he strives unto death to overcome the world, to live a perfect life; and upon succeeding— having become one with the Earth’s Core-Heart-Soul and thus all the Earth’s life-- die for us (as he has done many times through the ages), redeeming the world so it— and all those who faithfully endure with Her-- can finally take up the throne of exaltation in the Fifth World, the place of the Morning Star. As we are the root and offspring of our own Earth Mother, so is he the root and offspring of the previous Fifth World, known as "David," the earlier Morning Star. As written at the end of the Book of Revelations:

"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star." (22:16, Peshitta).

This below can be found on the 'Thirteenth Astrological Star Sign' thread here.....

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4101&page=2

http://www.biblelight.net/gregoryxiii-dragon-medal-1582.jpgThe above papal medal of Pope Gregory XIII, designed by L Parm, is dated 1582, marking the year of the Gregorian calendar reform. On the reverse of the medal is a winged dragon / serpent encircling a ram's head. As previously mentioned, the dragon is the biblical symbol of Satan (Rev 12:9). The serpent that is chasing or devouring its tail is called Ouroboros, Uroboros, or Oureboros. The ram's head is also a satanic symbol, and is frequently associated with the Egyptian deities, such as the god Amon (Amoun, Ammun, Ammon), the king of all gods, who was also regarded as the sun god, and Khnum, who created mankind on his potter's wheel from the mud of the Nile. {also spelt AMEN, and known as AMEN-RA, the SUN GOD, represented by a snake encircling the sun.}

The intended symbolic meaning, however, is undoubtedly that of Aries the Ram, the first sign of the Zodiac, which symbolizes the Vernal / Spring Equinox, and Draco / Drako (or Ouroboros) the serpent depicting a cyclical returning. Pope Gregory XIII had modified the calendar specifically so that the Vernal Equinox would remain relatively constant, on or about March 21st, which is the beginning of the Zodiacal year, when the Sun crosses the Equator and enters the astrological sign of Aries. This had the desired result of returning Easter to the time specified by the Nicene Council (325 A.D.).

http://www.geocities.com/jesuselcris...xology_09.html

And we also know that the snake is representative of Ophiuchus the (hidden) Thirteenth Astrological Star Sign.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/sex/tsf/img/10900.jpg
Serpent worship in early Christian art.

http://williamhenry.net/images/c2c_p2.jpg
Yahweh is the serpent that curls around the prophets.
His head is at the lower right at the bottom of his column or pillar.

Yahweh/God is froming a G as can be seen in the image below, which is used by the freemasons.

http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/2006/03mar/masonserpent.jpg
The name ouroboros (or, in Latinized form, uroborus) is Greek οὐροβóρος, "tail-devourer". The depiction of the serpent is believed to have been inspired by the Milky Way, as some ancient texts refer to a serpent of light residing in the heavens.

Lucifer is a Latin word meaning "light-bearer" (from lux, lucis, "light", and ferre, "to bear, bring"), a Roman astrological term for the "Morning Star", the planet Venus.

Lucifer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We are told that Jesus was a carpenter, but was he ?

The idea that he was a carpenter depends on one single reference in Mark's Gospel "Is not this the carpenter the son of Mary?"

But the Greek word 'tekton' and the underlying Aramaic word 'naggara' does not mean carpenter but more correctly translated "master builder or stone mason."

http://www.jordanmaxwell.com/article...religion4.html

Revelation 22:16 (KJV) "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

Revelation 22:16 (NIV) "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

2 Peter 1:19 (New International Version) "19And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts."

So, the morning star, masonic, snake-image, Yahweh, Jesus, etc., are all one and the same thing !!!

http://www.norwegian-pentagram.com/images/flamel-5.jpg
Jesus as the crucified serpent.
By current report it's a copy from the ancient
"The Book of Abraham the Jew"
found during the 14th century.

http://www.salt.org.il/serpent.gif
Moses interceded with God and was instructed:
"Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live"
(Numbers 21:8).

http://williamhenry.net/images/c2c_p8.jpg
Jesus as a serpent-god from bas-relief in Egypt.
This drawing was made by a member of Napoleon's army in 1798, one hundred years before the same face appeared to the world `for the first time ever' on the photograph of the Shroud of Turin.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4a/France_Paris_Notre-Dame-Adam_and_Eve.jpg/416px-France_Paris_Notre-Dame-Adam_and_Eve.jpg
Adam, Eve, and the (female) Serpent at the entrance to Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris. Medieval Christian art often depicted the Edenic Serpent as a woman, thus both emphasizing the Serpent's seductiveness as well as its relationship to Eve. (This connection might be due do the influence of Lilith, as well.) Several early Church Fathers, including Clement of Alexandria and Eusebius of Caesarea, interpreted the Hebrew "Heva" as not only the name of Eve, but in its aspirated form as "female serpent."

http://www.sign2god.com/folders/vaticaan/vatiscan-kl.jpg
The Vatican's Crest: the 'snake-/dragon' as displayed in the Vatican Museum...

The word 'vatican' comes from Latin and is a contraction of two words in the following way:

'Vatis' = 'prophetic' or 'diviner'
'Can' = 'serpent/snake'

These two words combined make:

'the prophetic- or made divine serpent'
The Vaticaan is a place, so you may say, that 'Vatican' means 'the place of the prophetic- and worshipped serpent'.

http://www.sign2god.com/folders/vati...ticaan-en.html

The Phoenician serpent god, alias Basilisk. The serpent, as well as the image of the sun, is always a phallic symbol in ancient religion. Basilisk is where the Roman Catholic Church got the name-- St. Peter's Basilica. Basilica is the old Greek name for the temple of the phallic god. How appropriate this is in view of the perpetual obsessions of the priests of "Mother Church." It also is well complimented by the obelisk in St. Peter's square which is a world wide phallic symbol complete with the phallic ball on top.

The term "seraph" has worried Biblical translators and commentators over the years. It is translated as "fiery serpent" in the King James version.

The Dawn of the Goddess

The goddess religion came from Africa with modern humans 100,000 years ago. This may be inferred from the fact that very similar goddess stories are found on all continents, suggesting that the stories were known before modern people migrated to Europe; Asia, the Americas, and Australia. In Europe, (France) there are some recently discovered caves decorated with paintings and carvings which have been dated between 30,340 and 32,410 BP (before present).

http://www.big.com.au/fallen/dawn.html

NAMES OF THE GODDESS

Aphrodite / Baalith / Bride / Dawn / Diana / Eire / Gaea / Hel / Hellene / Ishtar / Isis / Lilith / Lucifer / Maia / Mari / Minerva / Mother / Persephone / Queen of Heaven / Queen of the Night / Sophia / Venus...etc.

http://www.big.com.au/fallen/gnam.html

A Search for the White Goddess

The White Goddess is one of the names given to the Earth Mother; the Moon goddess, to Venus, Astarte, Lilith, Belili, the Muses, the Three Graces and to innumerable other female deities. She is found in the myths and legends of all cultures. The stories and attributes of the white goddess are remarkably similar in nations as far apart as Ireland and China, and this points to a very ancient common source for the myths, which appear to have come out of Africa with Homo sapiens 100,000 years ago.

This was a nature-based religion which involved close observation and celebration of the seasons and of the moon and the planets. Its bible was written in the stars for all to see, and its hymns were the songs of birds and the sighings of the breeze. The worship of the White Goddess reached its highest level in the time of the Minoans (say 1600 BC). In that period, the sea-trading Minoans carried their religion from their ports in the Mediterranean as far as Ireland in the west; and to tropical Asia in the east. Of the goddess-temples founded, the highest may have been that of Sappho on the island of Lesbos. The goddess-temples are of great importance to scholars, for they are the source of the alphabet we use; the musical scales we use, of the concept of poetry, of the calendar, of astronomy and history, and of formal mathematics and the sciences. This culture fell in a cataclysm in approximately 1600 BC, but was resumed by Achaeans (proto-Greeks), and by other civilisations honouring the nature goddess. The temple's role at the pinnacle of human culture and achievement lasted until the second century anno domine, when the the high priestess of the temple of Isis was murdered. The fall of the temple on the Nile marked the end of goddess-worship as a manifest or established religion, and the beginning of the Goddess' long career in hidden religion, that is, in the occult.

http://www.big.com.au/fallen/

http://www.hermetic.com/sabazius/baphomet.jpg

The Goddess is the Earth Mother, Lucifer, Venus, the Bright Morning Star, that is the hidden religion and influence of christianity and other religions.

She is known as the Bride and her covenant/contract can be seen in the marriage ritual where it is declared "until death do us part", and requires a license (contract) to be signed by both parties.

Originally Posted by upaava
Regardless of how wonderful the new Time reality may at first appear to be, its end is darkest misery. We are protected from the inevitable, terrible consequences of living in another time-frame by our covenant with God. As described in the Judeo-Christian bible, and in other world scripture, we are covenanted (contracted) to remain in the genetic time-frame that was especially established for us by God when He/She created us. Those who recognize the normalcy of death accept it without fear, understanding it leads us forward toward a goal God/Nature intends for us. Those in this age who have forgotten this truth, fear death, and are those who are likely to be seduced by the promise of extraordinary longevity in the new Time, breaking their covenants with God by “eating” of this forbidden knowledge.

Why would a God that can create all of creation require a covenant/contract ???

The Soul is an immortal aspect of ALL THAT IS.

Death is the God program of the matrix and is a lie.

Source Of Unconditional Love is Who I Am and "LOVE is all there is, everything else is illusion" !!!

With LOVE.

da renn

09-06-2007, 09:11 PM

Jeez! Just focus on SPIRIT- A to Z!

mari

10-06-2007, 01:18 AM

tru3

10-06-2007, 07:40 AM

are you referring to a place that Christians call Hell?
Can you explain how this process work; does it take reincarnations to devolve or is it done within one’s lifetime?

Quote:
you wrote: “The course of life is unnatural in the space-time world; it takes us out of Nature as designed for us to finally reach our perfected forms in the Fifth Worlds. The important thing to take away is that the natural unfolding time we have here is meant for us to use, and has been used by us for many ages as we have progressed to the near completed forms we have now we call Homo sapiens. We can receive our final, perfected, angelic forms when we endure with the Earth to the Fifth World. Before that occurs, we will all have to choose whether to gpo into the ancient Time reality which has sevcretly been used for ages, and which will soon be seductively offered to all of us. With wisdom we will choose the Earth we have now-- with Her unfolding time-- which will soon take us Home.”

so, is this ancient time reality something that is offered to us after every cosmic cycle?
And can you explain in a few short details differences between third, fourth and fifth worlds. I read all thread but I am not fully grasping it.

And, how does one go to another world. I cannot understand the process, how do we make a “jump” or “switch” to another world?
Are many already living in 5-th world with all their technology that they accept as their reality or it it something else?
Is microchipping of humans intended to move people to 5th world or???
I guess I am not getting what different wolds are and how do we make a jump, so I am totally confused.

interestingly enough, upaava talking about the fifth world reminded me of some tibetan beliefs about the bardo, and the transition to five distinct states of Being:

The segments between spokes are the different realms into which sentient beings take rebirth. They are

1a. Devas or gods.
1b. Ashuras or titans (anti-gods, jealous gods, demigods, aka "demons")
2. Manushyas or humans.
3. Tiryakas or animals.
4. Pretas or hungry ghosts.
5. Narakas or demons (hell beings)

H. E. Thrangu Rinpoche (a Kagyupa,) describes the realms as relating to six distinct conditions. In the two higher realms, they are Pride and Jealousy (1a and 1b above, respectively.) In the "Realm in which it is easiest to attain Enlightenment" (2 above) humans are afflicted with five disturbing emotions. The lower realms (3, 4 & 5 in the list above) are respectively associated with Ignorance, Desire and Anger.

At the top is are the heavens or realm of gods that is usually blended with that of the demi- or anti-gods, a.k.a. titans or ashuras, with whom they constantly struggle for dominance.

Before it [at 10 o'clock], is the human realm. Read in Jamgon Kongtrul the Great's Generation and Completion with commentary by Thrangu Rinpoche [scroll down the linked page] of ". . . the complete correspondence to all the events of one life cycle. Starting with the bardo and the entrance of the bardo consciousness into the womb, going through your whole life and ending with your death, and again your entrance into the bardo" including the stages of the process for a fetus in the womb of its mother.

After the top realm, going in a clockwise order, next is the realm of those who, after death, are still so attached by desire to this world that they are ghosts. In the Tibetan version, they are shown with very narrow necks and are known as ‘hungry ghosts’ because their condition prevents them from enjoying food or drink. Interesting ghosts page.

At the bottom is the hell realm that is sometimes shown to comprise both hot and cold forms of torment. The Sutra of Remembrance of the True Law describes 8 different hells but makes it clear that they are the product of our own mind.

Next is the animal realm where sentient beings from whales to insects are confined in fear and ignorance.

Nearing the top once more, is the realm of human beings in our varying conditions, degrees and statuses.

The in-between states are called in Tibetan, the bardo. It is also the word for the locale of consciousness while it is not embodied, as in certain kinds of dreaming.

As dismal as the situation may appear at first glance, in each of the realms is depicted a symbol of the dharma providing the opportunity for liberation from the repetitious situation known as samsara.

http://www.khandro.net/doctrine_rebirth.htm

tibetan buddhism comes very much out of a shamanic tradition, much like native americans.

i don't necessarily agree with every fine point of the five states, but i point this out because imv, the hell realms are all about pressure, and heat. heat and pressure, and is generated by sentient beings themselves, not by some vengeful god.

the tibetan book of the dead is about making the transition of consciousness at the instant the 'soul' leaves the body. if we have hellish thoughts at the moment of our death, we are propelled forward into that direction, speed determined by intensity.

tru3

10-06-2007, 08:38 AM

humans have been trying to free themselves from office, but they couldn't, or it was very hard, because they were believing that they needed office in order to be humans. so they were going back to office all the time because they believed it served them and they were blaming it all the time, because they didn't remember that it was based on lies. and they had no idea what would happen next.. some believed that office would devour all of them, some believed that they would be saved by their space brothers, some didn't care and went for vacations.

some of us managed to get out, b.d., and i've never looked back. :)

yinon

10-06-2007, 03:46 PM

Lucifer is a Latin word meaning "light-bearer" (from lux, lucis, "light", and ferre, "to bear, bring"), a Roman astrological term for the "Morning Star", the planet Venus.

Superpose the Quantum mechanic on the Native wisdom now. What do we get?

If you adore the MORNING STAR as a symbol of purity or accomplishment you must accept to deal with "the dark bearer."

This world is dual. Light and darkness separate things and humans. The Heart don't make distinction between people.

Al gore push the cult of Mother Earth and In doing it ,he prepares the ground for the next religion to come. Even if I respect the native wisdom, I cannot support their desire to sp read duality through esoterism.

What means simplicity?

LOVE

Here's a quantum mechanic joke:

When the lady of light opens your head chakra at the top , the lady of darkness opens it with her gun at the bottom

yinon

10-06-2007, 03:51 PM

http://www.inminds.co.uk/vietnamese-woman-gun.jpg

An american gun on her head

yinon

10-06-2007, 03:59 PM

Superpose the Quantum mechanic on the Native wisdom now. What do we get?

If you adore the MORNING STAR as a symbol of purity or accomplishment you must accept to deal with "the dark bearer."

This world is dual. Light and darkness separate things and humans. The Heart don't make distinction between people.

Al gore push the cult of Mother Earth and In doing it ,he prepares the ground for the next religion to come. Even if I respect the native wisdom, I cannot support their desire to sp read duality through esoterism.

What means simplicity?

LOVE

Here's a quantum mechanic joke:

When the lady of light opens your head chakra at the top , the lady of darkness opens it with her gun at the bottom

We can no longer speak of the behaviour of the particle independently of the process of observation. As a final consequence, the natural laws formulated mathematically in quantum theory no longer deal with the elementary particles themselves but with our knowledge of them. Nor is it any longer possible to ask whether or not these particles exist in space and time objectively ...

When we speak of the picture of nature in the exact science of our age, we do not mean a picture of nature so much as a picture of our relationships with nature. ...Science no longer confronts nature as an objective observer, but sees itself as an actor in this interplay between man [sic] and nature. The scientific method of analysing, explaining and classifying has become conscious of its limitations, which arise out of the fact that by its intervention science alters and refashions the object of investigation. In other words, method and object can no longer be separated

Our relationship with nature - Here's what matter.

In any relationships the Heart is involved -

The quantum world : suggests an alternative worldview in which the universe is characterized by interconnectedness and (w)holism: what physicist David Bohm has called ``implicate order''.

Speak of SIMPLICITY!

upaava

11-06-2007, 03:23 AM

Ngungu'taota, Tutskwa I'qatsi,

King-- you wrote: "...so, is this ancient time reality something that is offered to us after every cosmic cycle? And can you explain in a few short details differences between third, fourth and fifth worlds....And, how does one go to another world.....how do we make a “jump” or “switch” to another world?
Are many already living in 5-th world with all their technology that they accept as their reality or it it something else?....Is microchipping of humans intended to move people to 5th world or???..."

I'tupko, the Fifth World is the culminating point for the life evolving upon each world of our system. Life evolves from its earliest beginnings in the outermost orbit, and is progressed stage-by-stage in each orbit, ending when the orbit of the Morning-Evening-Day star is reached (known as the Sacred Path or Pattern of Migration).

Our Solar System has its own spectrum of density, sound, and light moving from the outermost orbit, inward to the orbit of the Morning Star; and as each world is moved forward nearer the Sun (at the end of Purification Times), the life is evolved to new species adapted to live under the new conditions. Those now on our present Morning Star are our perfected ancestors, part of a large family throughout Creation who serve the Great Spirit, helping to watch over and guide the "younger" worlds to follow in their footsteps. This evolutionary progression is depicted in the Southwestern sandpainting showing eight concentric circles with petals around the outermost orb. The petals represent rays of the Sun (our Sun), and the inner circles are (beginning at the center) the outer orbit and each orbit nearer to the Sun we call Venus. The first three outer orbits the Hopi call early stages, and the next five orbits are called Worlds (Saturn-1st World, Jupiter-2nd, Mars-Third, Earth-Fourth World, and the orbit now held by Venus-Fifth World-Heaven). Mercury is not a true planet, but is an ejected Core-Moon.

The process within which our evolution occurs involves the “Hidden (Core) Egg” within each world (the Hopi Mystery Egg), the basis of the Egg Mysteries down through the ages. The Hidden Egg is a universal truth known to other cultures and times. The knowledge of the hidden Core-Egg and its coming ejection to become a moon is known to some in the modern world; but it has thus far been suppressed. With research the most devout Christian and Jew will discover that the name they invoke to this day at the end of their prayers is that of Amen-Ammon/Amun Hidden One, the Hidden/unborn Moon, the Hidden God-- the Earth’s Core-Heart.

The unnatural Time Structure is the antithesis of the Great Spirit's process progressing us in Nature as described above. This space-time "Kingdom" is not God's Kingdom. To go into this Time structure is to be uprooted from our Mother Worlds and the process taking us to the heavenly Fifth World. Going into this Time structure does provide a long extension to ones life and to their advanced technology; but is this worth giving up our greatest gift in Heaven? Some who go into this Time reality later realize their mistakes and seek to return to evolution upon an Earth Mother, defecting from space-time. They cannot return to their original Earth Mothers which have moved on, but must rejoin the world which has "moved up" to replace their original Mother worlds. We of this world welcome them to our Earth Mother; but it is not the same to them. The Earth is not their biological Mother. They are visitors here and, however hard they try, they will never feel entirely at home among us. They carry a feeling—having lost their original Earth Mothers-- that, somehow, they do not belong here.

Although one can live a very long life in the unnatural Time Frame, death finally arrives; and with it one devolves to a form adapted to live in darkness-- this is the meaning of the bible references about being "cast to outer darkness," or "to the outer pit." Thus you can say that being in this forbidden space-time is being in the antechamber of Hell; and once devolved to live in the cold and darkness of space (outer darkness), one is in the true Hell.

Elders tell me that the microchipping refers to the coming period when the knowledge of this Time reality will be announced and our world set-up for people to go into it. In this coming new order, those who remain within it (rather than rejecting it and living independently from the land) will be policed using the injected chips to monitor and control those who are here.

You wrote: "...Now, I also do not understand the following; We know that evil ones worship earth? you know, the Gaia worship, as pushed by "illuminated ones" For example Al Gore is pushing the agenda of Gaia worship, yet he is one of the major freemasons, or illuminated ones..."

I do not know who told you this, i'tupko, but this is opposite of the way that we know. As you can see from what I have shared earlier, native people see God everywhere and most imminent to us in our own Rock of Ages-- our Earth. Native peoples,--appreciating this truth, and how all life is evolving together within the Great Spirit's purpose leading us to the Fifth World-- naturally live in a balanced way as part of our circle of life, giving back for everything that we receive. According to what we know, someone is misleading you.

da renn-- you wrote: "...Nice. But "native" peoples are STILL so immersed in these matrix dominated dimensions (the illuminati dominatrix!) and cannot be wholly trusted, overall..... They still have to KILL for physical sustenance! Acceptable given the circumstances. But it ain't WHOLLY necessary to have to kill & eat other forms of life, not SPIRITUALLY!..."

I'tupko, in North America there are over 500 known tribes. North American Indians, as well as other indigenous peoples, comprise a large variety of differences in their socio-political structures, subsistence practices, and religions. The stereotypical view of Native Americans as the Plains Tribes-- the generally dark skinned horse nomads hunting buffalo— is a myth created mostly from images formed from the Wild West shows of Buffalo Bill, and from the works of artists who focused upon Plains Indians, especially George Catlin. This stereotypical view of one identity for all Indians (Pan Indianism) fostered in the Plains Indian stereotype, continued through most of the twentieth century perpetuated by movies, television, and popular fiction. In fact, according to the general concensus of our present anthropological knowledge, North American Indians are migrated Asian peoples who subsequently adapted to the different climates, geography, and ecological conditions of the culture areas where they settled.

My adoptive people have lived as a sovereign nation within America, having their own passports, and exempt from U.S. military service. They believe in peace and honorable living; and have lived traditionally from the land, largely from the corn that they crow. As their prophecies have warned for this time, they are under attack by the U.S. government to exploit their lands and break down their traditional culture. Traditionals remain, but are becoming fewer and fewer as predicted just before the birth of our Earth's Mystery Egg at the end of this fourth World.

i am all i am-- My brother, as I wrote to you when you said these things earlier, people have altered the meaning of symbols (as well as earlier gospels), and make many different interpreatations. Those who are not our friends purposely distort the interpretations to direct our thinking for their purposes. To find the truth we are best served by releasing any anger, or fear, and seeking in a humble way.

You wrote: "...Why would a God that can create all creation require a covenant/contract ? The Soul is an immortal aspect of ALL THAT IS.
Death is the God program of the matrix and is a lie. Source Of Unconditional Love is Who I Am and "LOVE is all there is, everything else is illusion" !!!..."

We believe that we live in the Universe God has made for us, and within which He/She abides. Rather than trying to transcend it, my people have been taught to trust in it, to cooperate with it; and that it has purpose within its dynamics-- that we are being carried "onward and upward" within Nature's design upon our Earth, toward the highest form and awareness which we can receive.

yinon-- I am happy to greet you as a relative.

You wrote: "...If you adore the MORNING STAR as a symbol of purity or accomplishment you must accept to deal with "the dark bearer." This world is dual. Light and darkness separate things and humans. The Heart don't make distinction between people..."

We see a duality, a positive and negative, male and female, also, i'tupko. The Earth Herself is dual being female as our Earth Mother, and male in Her inner Core-Heart. For us the light is the natural universe which is filled with life and growth in the duality of body and awareness (the Great Spirit appearing as Body AND Life forming Creation). Darkness also exists when we desert the natural design of the Universe and embark upon an arrogant course where we place ourselves and what we wish over the Great Spirit.

You wrote-- "...we do not mean a picture of nature so much as a picture of our relationships with nature. ...Science no longer confronts nature as an objective observer, but sees itself as an actor in this interplay between man [sic] and nature....Our relationship with nature - Here's what matter. In any relationships the Heart is involved - The quantum world : suggests an alternative worldview in which the universe is characterized by interconnectedness and (w)holism..."

This is the same as we believe, i'tupko; that Nature is to be cooperated with, not subdued; as actors within a larger drama which is unfolding all around us in the natural Universe. But for us there is also purpose within that drama; a purpose which is progressing life ever forward, expanding as we progress in larger and larger measure. We always see things in circles (wholistically); which is why we dance and do other things in a circular way. It is ever the blending of our duality that leads us to the One Whole, within our own brain hemispheres, and our Universe, which we can only receive by remaining with our Earth and Her unfolding Time.

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

i am all i am

11-06-2007, 05:09 AM

Those who are not our friends purposely distort the interpretations to direct our thinking for their purposes.

Would that include those that have a different belief system than you ???

Would that be like using the King James version of the bible ???

As opposed to you using them for your purposes ???

http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

ho1ogram

11-06-2007, 05:39 AM

G'day upaava,
a few of your themes smell fishy to me.

You talk about the living universe and having respect for mother earth. No worries there, as all is interconnected and every electron is imbued with consciousness as everything is born from the infinite source of all that is. So I agree with you there.

But then you bring in themes similar to monotheistic religions. You call the fifth world a new heaven. A lot of people are rejecting the monotheistic religion's and their offerings of a choice in the duality of heaven and hell (seperation). This fifth world doctrine sounds like a convenient replacement for disillusioned souls seeking love and eternal life... yet how can there be seperation from God/Infinite source? Infinite love/consciousness is imbued within every electron that makes up this 'reality'. How can someone or something be seperated from all that is? Seperation is an illusion of the mind.

Questions for you.
What happens to the children born after the gateway to the fifth world is shut?
What happens to the people dying in Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa, and my home town right now? Do they miss out on your 'new heaven'?

You keep trying to reinforce the belief in linear time as well. This smells like disinfo to keep peoples awareness limited to a focus within the matrix. Your fifth world merely sounds like another layer of the matrix. Do you want people to believe that they can become seperated from infinite love? Because you are telling us that we may end up in a place that sounds a lot like all the other religion's versions of hell.
Now is the only time that there is. The past is gone, the future is not here, this ever changing moment is all that there is. People don't have to wait for a fifth world, 2012, the coming of christ or allah or the Pleidians. Infinity is now, it can't be anything else. Your expectation of a new heaven/fifth world moves awareness from the present moment to an expectation of the future. Expectations are merely illusions just as the past is merely the illusion of memory. Why not realise infinite love now?

What happens to all the children who are too young to understand your fifth world religion? Do they get sent to hell if they die before the fifth world is open to them? Great religion your people have if that is the case.

All religions and cultural beliefs about the worlds creation and end seem to spring from a central source. They have similar themes and rules. Perhaps they all come form a point in time when we decided collectively to forget what/who we truly are (infinite love) so that we may have this human experience. If you wish to continue experiencing being human than you can follow religions and upaava's words. If you wish to remember yourself as eternal consciousness now, then simply live it now. That simplicity scares people off but why would God/infinity/infinite love not make it simple? It is us that make it hard.

Culture and tradition are merely sets of laws that are handed down from parent to child. They are all tools of the matrix. Just because something is written or passed down from antiquity doesn't mean it is a gospel truth.

upaava, what happens after the fifth world? Is there a sixth and then seventh? How many hoops does one have to jump through to progress up your ladder of enlightenment?

The future is merely an expectation, a program of the matrix, a trick of the mind. THE FUTURE ISN'T HERE AND THE PAST IS GONE THERE IS ONLY THE EVER CHANGING PRESENT. If you don't like the present now is the time to change. Infinite love is now. Seperation from it is an illusion. Waiting and hoping for an escape from this world won't help the starving, the abused and the tortured. Now is the only time to be. See, feel and know the infinite love in everything because tomorrow never comes.

"The Wisdom Of Native Peoples"
While they retain much natural earth-spiritual wisdom that we in the western world have completely lost touch with- for the most part- and they have much to teach us, they are also subject to the overlaying "matrix" system and the "Time Loop" that David Icke has written about, and which insight makes a lotta mad stuff clear in this- totally- loopy world!

truthsupplier

11-06-2007, 02:05 PM

tru3

11-06-2007, 03:20 PM

Osiyo my Brother,

I do not come brandishing a Standard to proclaim anything, nor with weapons profered for a battle of beliefs... I commune here merely to extend a positive towards your "Project" of gifting the unappreciative. The only humor I can find with your association here, at least they "argue" with you as opposed to just posting to bury your input.

Be well (in body mind and Spirit) necessity requires it.

Do well (in construction and sharing of the "Golden Threads" unfamiliar to those who trash what they cannot comprehend... I was taught EVERY "religion" has it`s own Golden Thread, It may be strikingly aparent or skillfully woven in for discovery at the time appointed, but there never the less)

Respect all Wakan Tanka has allowed we the people to enjoy, through the Stewardship we were offered.The ever present "mindless consumer" and purposfully placed stumbling blocks sometimes allow for concentration required to acknowledge the falicy accepted as reality by those whose time to awaken is not yet.

May the Great Mystery continue to award you the civility and decency expressed to those who prefer to not see that there is another "Path" which needs not be offensive. I too will supply some of that which aided in my Growth... sorry, it will not include any "Bible Thumping", as Organized Religion is but a trap for those who must rely on anothers interpretation, rather than "personal" communion with Creator.

When it is for you to know, you will.

Respectfully,
wayinktelo aka truthsupplier aka will bates

well put. in fact, there are numerous paths, not just an- other.

i find it fascinating that speculation is encouraged on this forum regarding reptilians and intradimensional entities (which most of us will probably never see, it has to be admitted), but when it comes to speculation regarding that which is right under our very feet, people break out into a cold sweat.

now, we're not dealing with the invisible, we're dealing with something tangible and intimitely connected to our physical being. the implication is that if the earth is changing, we too are compelled to change. too close to home?

http://www.nealadams.com/EarthProject/LAtoon5_01.gif

http://www.nealadams.com/EarthProject/toon1.html

i thought it was interesting that neal adams used the metaphor of the egg in this short pictorial presentation.

You talk about the living universe and having respect for mother earth. No worries there, as all is interconnected and every electron is imbued with consciousness as everything is born from the infinite source of all that is. So I agree with you there.

But then you bring in themes similar to monotheistic religions. You call the fifth world a new heaven. A lot of people are rejecting the monotheistic religion's and their offerings of a choice in the duality of heaven and hell (seperation). This fifth world doctrine sounds like a convenient replacement for disillusioned souls seeking love and eternal life... yet how can there be seperation from God/Infinite source? Infinite love/consciousness is imbued within every electron that makes up this 'reality'. How can someone or something be seperated from all that is? Seperation is an illusion of the mind.

Questions for you.
What happens to the children born after the gateway to the fifth world is shut?
What happens to the people dying in Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa, and my home town right now? Do they miss out on your 'new heaven'?

excellent questions, ho1ogram. my feeling is that you answered your own questions. separation is an illusion of mind. the creative power of the mind is nuetral.

personally i don't believe the gateway is ever "shut", or locked, anyway. their are "trap doors" to liberation, ever present, built into Consciousness, imv.

if it is, i want to know who is the gatekeeper. if there is a gate keeper, it ain't a 'god', it's the god program, the lucifer program, whatever you want to call it.

no, i feel that it is the soul level that determines which of the five worlds one chooses to inhabit. consciousness seeks its own level of understanding.

You keep trying to reinforce the belief in linear time as well. This smells like disinfo to keep peoples awareness limited to a focus within the matrix. Your fifth world merely sounds like another layer of the matrix. Do you want people to believe that they can become seperated from infinite love? Because you are telling us that we may end up in a place that sounds a lot like all the other religion's versions of hell.

Now is the only time that there is. The past is gone, the future is not here, this ever changing moment is all that there is. People don't have to wait for a fifth world, 2012, the coming of christ or allah or the Pleidians. Infinity is now, it can't be anything else. Your expectation of a new heaven/fifth world moves awareness from the present moment to an expectation of the future. Expectations are merely illusions just as the past is merely the illusion of memory. Why not realise infinite love now?

well said. it's fascinating to me that two people can have such different interpretations of the same ideas.

i agree completely that expectations are what pave the road to hell, not intentions. but what i'm getting is that the way to realize infinite love right now, and stay anchored in the present, is to simply resonate with the energetic changes that are occuring right now, in this present.

the kingdom is before us, yet we see it not.

the desire to want to "check out" is perfectly understandable and natural.
stress is the body's natural response to choking the living shit out of someone who desperately deserves it. imho, we are being asked to burn through this stress right now, at this time, because either way we go, we can't take it with us.

so, to me, holding fast means exercising the will to abide as Conscious Being and stop trying to get out of here. stop trying to make it something other than what it is, right here, right now. the loomies have been trying to exit this plane for thousands of years to no avail.

The future is merely an expectation, a program of the matrix, a trick of the mind. THE FUTURE ISN'T HERE AND THE PAST IS GONE THERE IS ONLY THE EVER CHANGING PRESENT. If you don't like the present now is the time to change. Infinite love is now. Seperation from it is an illusion. Waiting and hoping for an escape from this world won't help the starving, the abused and the tortured. Now is the only time to be. See, feel and know the infinite love in everything because tomorrow never comes.

spot on brother. again, we just differ on the interpretation of this wisdom, and what it's for.

what happens after the fifth world? Is there a sixth and then seventh? How many hoops does one have to jump through to progress up your ladder of enlightenment?

Being is groomed and manipulated at every level of experience, imv. the soul level is no different. abide as the Self, and these questions become moot.

ho1ogram

11-06-2007, 04:13 PM

G'day tru3,
hmmm...do you mean upaava and I are in agreement but I haven't realised it?

I understand that we are multidimensional and that our awareness can move between worlds/dimensions/frequencies... so there is/will be an opportunity to move ones awareness to a new vibration called the fifth world... but it sounds so much like another layer of the matrix and/or time loop (well especially the time loop if the fifth world is tied to our concept of linear time as upaava has said).

Infinity by definition means there are infinite paths/doorways, not just a few duality based, popular saviour scenarios which is what the fifth world ascendency sounds like to me. We are always linked to the source, how can it be any other way if the source is all there is? What's with these in-between worlds? Why not cut out the stopovers and shift awareness directly to infinite love?

If people want a layover in another dimension of experience that's cool, I just like to be aware of what is the ultimate source (which is available now) and what is merely another expression of the illusion which is what the fifth world sounds like to me.

yinon

11-06-2007, 05:34 PM

We see a duality, a positive and negative, male and female, also, i'tupko. The Earth Herself is dual being female as our Earth Mother, and male in Her inner Core-Heart. For us the light is the natural universe which is filled with life and growth in the duality of body and awareness (the Great Spirit appearing as Body AND Life forming Creation). Darkness also exists when we desert the natural design of the Universe and embark upon an arrogant course where we place ourselves and what we wish over the Great Spirit.

We disagree on ONE IMPORTANT THING. You don't understand deeply the Quantum mechanic. Be humble please!

People in the light usually have big troubles to be humble. They are easily pretentious. It's their main bug.

For us the light is the natural universe which is filled with life and growth in the duality of body and awareness

Light is an illusion. Light is associated with few qualities as softness, respect, beauty, joy, and purity...PURITY IS A LIE (LOOK the shitt we face with the VIRGIN MARY AS THE PERFECT IMAGE OF WOMAN)

Darkness also exists when we desert the natural design of the Universe and embark upon an arrogant course where we place ourselves and what we wish over the Great Spirit.

DARKNESS is also another illusion. Dark is associated with sex, drugs,war, money and rock'n roll. It's a lie. Have you ever meditate on the fact that topless women probably saved many women from rapes and violence? Who is more enlightened? The light bearer or the dark bearer?

The foundation of your wisdom are corrupted. You continue to spread duality
in labelling light as something better....What's gonna be the consequence?
You support the masculine agenda because light is also associated with the masculine and darkness with the feminine.

LIGHT IS NOT LOVE

Be humble and do your homeworks!

yinon

11-06-2007, 06:02 PM

What's the highest spiritual path to walk?

THE tantra PATH. Tantrism don't condemn anything. YOU DO in labelling darkness as something arrogant

Learn from the Dark bearer beloved.

Yes we must respect Mother Earth but that's not enough. Human sexuality is sick.

I see how they gonna escape the question again in promoting the cult of Mother Earth. They neglect to face the sexual question between man and woman because the TRUE HUMAN POWER comes from a balance sexuality. In incorporating the HEART and THE BODY , The YIN and the YAN to our sexuality True LOVE arise between man and woman.

upaava

11-06-2007, 10:09 PM

Ngungu'taota, Tutskwa I'qatsi,

i am all i am-- you wrote: (quoting me)"...Those who are not our friends purposely distort the interpretations to direct our thinking for their purposes..." Would that include those that have a different belief system than you ???...Would that be like using the King James version of the bible ???
As opposed to you using them for your purposes ???..."

I'tupko, I only meant to say that there are different interpretations; and I think that you would agree that there are those who have altered the original meaning and symbolisms for their own reasons. Each of us must use our own minds and hearts to find what is true, from what is not. I am offering another worldview, which includes knowledge preserved for many centuries. This knowledge is offered, not imposed.

I am not one of fanatical beliefs who must convert others to my own ideas. I am one of your relatives upon this Earth who has received a message which is meant for everyone. This knowledge is being returned to us as a giveaway, a gift which belongs to each of us, sent at the end of this age when it is needed. It is up to each of us to make a choice as to the truth of this message, so we may apply it in our own lives in the coming times.

ho1ogram-- you wrote: ".... You call the fifth world a new heaven. A lot of people are rejecting the monotheistic religion's and their offerings of a choice in the duality of heaven and hell (seperation)....how can there be seperation from God/Infinite source? Infinite love/consciousness is imbued within every electron that makes up this 'reality'..."

I'tupko, from age to age the thinking changes as we are immersed in different trends and beliefs. Certain ideas fall out of favor, later to return again, which can change again later. But the truth always remains however we choose to believe. The universe is made in a certain way, it is immutable and will affect us the same no matter what our thinking. And, when times of change come in Nature, as we are now having again, we will each have to make choices which affect our futures, ready or not.

Yes, the worldview I am sharing with you warns us that when we make certain choices, Nature returns us related consequences, a cause and effect relationship which involves laws modern science does not yet understand. We do not believe that what is divine in us can be lost; but an identity that has chosen to abandon the design of Nature, stepping out of Nature's Plan, can lose its identity, to start over from the beginning. World Teachers have warned us that souls can be lost. What I am passing to you warns us that a choice is soon coming to each of us which can cause this result. We may not accept this; but we are being given warning.

You wrote: "...Questions for you.
What happens to the children born after the gateway to the fifth world is shut? What happens to the people dying in Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa, and my home town right now? Do they miss out on your 'new heaven'?..."

By our choices and level of "purity" we will either advance to the Fifth World, or continue in the new Fourth World, which our present Third World (Mars) will move up to become (the "new Earth"). There we will have the opportunity to grow in love and unselfishness from our choices and life experiences as before, finally reaching the Fifth World. Those who abandon Nature into the "new" space-time, abandoning the Great Spirit's plan for progressing life, have the opportunity to defect back into evolution upon a new mother world if they have not died there first. Death in the unnatural Time structure brings about a devolutionary process taking us farther and farther from Nature and the Fifth World. My people speak about a long and difficult return road for those who tread this darkened path.

You wrote: "...What happens to all the children who are too young to understand your fifth world religion? Do they get sent to hell if they die before the fifth world is open to them?..."

It does not matter what we understand or believe, i'tupko, we are all subject to Nature and Universal laws, those we have discovered in science, and those which are yet unknown. Regardless of our personal philosophies, nationalities, ethnicities, or religions, we’re all part of our Earth’s life and, regardless of our ages or what we believe, will face the coming Purification Time together.

You wrote: "...upaava, what happens after the fifth world? Is there a sixth and then seventh? How many hoops does one have to jump through to progress up your ladder of enlightenment?..."

According to the Sacred Path of Migration, at the end of Purifcation Times, each world of our system (and others) move up an orbit closer to the Sun. The planet in the Fifth World orbit, and the Core holding the orbit now held by Mercury, enter the Sun and are converted into energy. I can tell you that the perfected life on these worlds is not lost. But becomes part of a large family throughout Creation.

You wrote: "...Culture and tradition are merely sets of laws that are handed down from parent to child. They are all tools of the matrix. Just because something is written or passed down from antiquity doesn't mean it is a gospel truth..."

You are right i'tupko, it doesn't mean its a gospel truth. But neither does it mean that it is not true. The knowledge I have been sharing is being returned to us so that we will have it when asked to choose between our Earth and Her Time, and the "new" Time structure, which will soon be announced and set up. If I am wrong about this it will not occur, and we will have nothing to choose between; but if it does, what will we choose? The choices will then be up to each of us to make. With the information I have passed to you, you will no longer be making these choices in ignorance, unaware of what they mean to us. As we have been asked: who hath ears to hear?

You wrote: "...The future is merely an expectation, a program of the matrix, a trick of the mind. THE FUTURE ISN'T HERE AND THE PAST IS GONE THERE IS ONLY THE EVER CHANGING PRESENT..."

Just as the Universe is ancient, so too, space-time is ancient, coming into being when the Universe began; and therefore a long opportunity has existed for its discovery by others, which has occurred. Modern mankind cannot yet see beyond our real-time; space-time(lessness) is just beyond the grasp of man’s senses. Thus, all that unfolds as our reality, unfolds in the real-time we know and use on Earth.

The new Time structure will be hailed as the greatest discovery of the new millennium, the greatest discovery of all time. Millions of people will be attracted into living within this allegedly new Time system. We will be seduced into deserting our Earth by the promise of extremely long life and the wonders of very advanced technology; added to these lures will be pronouncements of the impending doom of our Earth, or other fearful reasons to abandon Her, all meant to help drive us into the new time reality. This combination of fear and temptation will be extremely compelling. Watch for these things to occur, i'tupko, and when they do you will not be fooled by the deceptions we have been warned to recognize.

truthsupplier-- naangu'a i'tupko.
You wrote: "...(I) do not come brandishing a Standard to proclaim anything, nor with weapons profered for a battle of beliefs... I commune here merely to extend a positive towards your "Project" of gifting the unappreciative..."

Kwakway. I continue to share this message as I began with my native father before his death. It is done as a duty for all of my realtives, although its reception is not always easy for others, nor easy for me or others who share it. The truth of this knowledge is known to me in a direct way, from experiences which I understand others have not had. I try to put myself in their shoes.

tru3-- you wrote: "...i find it fascinating that speculation is encouraged on this forum regarding reptilians and intradimensional entities....but when it comes to speculation regarding that which is right under our very feet, people break out into a cold sweat. now, we're not dealing with the invisible, we're dealing with something tangible and intimitely connected to our physical being. the implication is that if the earth is changing, we too are compelled to change. too close to home?..."

What you say is the heart of my message, i'tupko. The universe we perceive and exist within is not meaningless illusion, but has great purpose, which has long been progressing us toward a destiny soon to occur upon our world. Purification Time has occurred six times before for our Earth, each time advancing us one step closer to our final, perfected life in the Fifth World. We are now so near to that completion. If we will hold fast one more time, rejecting the lures to go into the "new" Time soon to be offered to us, we will receive our crowning life, the life Carl Jung referred to as Homo maximus.

yinon-- you wrote: "...We disagree on ONE IMPORTANT THING...Be humble please! For us the light is the natural universe which is filled with life and growth in the duality of body and awareness. The foundation of your wisdom are corrupted. You continue to spread duality in labelling light as something better....What's gonna be the consequence? You support the masculine agenda because light is also associated with the masculine and darkness with the feminine..."

I'tupko, I have said many times throughout this thread that there are two polarities within Creation and neither is favored. Rather we are learning to blend them. The terms "Dark" and "light" have been used to illustrate the road which allows us to live in the light of day, from those who have chosen a road which brings them a life which must be lived in the darkness of night.

Modern science has more to learn aboput light, i'tupko. It does not come from the Sun alone, but depends upon the metal cores within each of the worlds circling it. The Cores have sometimes been spoken of in scripture as "lamps" (7 lamps) for this reason. Can we learn from native peoples something which is not yet discovered by science?

Just for the record, I am educated in physics, having been qualified earlier in my life as an operator of S1C and S5W U.S.N nuclear engineering plants. My scientific knowledge is not perfect, but it sometimes helps me to bridge between cultures. I hope that you will also try to understand what I am sharing here. As I said to "I am all I am" earlier; it is offered, not imposed.

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

i am all i am

12-06-2007, 07:18 AM

I'tupko, I have said many times throughout this thread that there are two polarities within Creation and neither is favored.

G'day Upaava.

When paired opposites define your beliefs, your beliefs will imprison you.

Creation is made up of three aspects.

For example.....

Future / Present / Past

Mind / Soul / Body

Thought / Word / Action

There / In Between / Here

Belief in a system of duality is a belief in seperation. Seperation leads to an "us" and "them" mentality, which makes possible individuals killing other individuals, war.

Duality is the same system The Hierarchy Enslaving You utilise to control the population.

OPPOSAMES !!!

You both have secret knowledge or teachings...

Some the knowledge which has heretofore been kept secret is now being released to us by native elders so that our world can be prepared for the coming changes which are not yet understood in this modern age.

You have both been given "instructions" by some 'God-like' individual, that there is a prophecy about, and this individual will return at "the end of the world" to save us all...

My native people were given their original instructions by one they call the ”caretaker of the Earth” (also "True Brother" and a name which means "Father Death") who is prophesied to return at the end of this Fourth World. Other religions have similar figures who also are said to return at the end of the world, taking those to Paradise who have lived in a loving and unselfish way, having maintained their covenants with the Creator.

You both offer a "paradise", "heaven", after death if we have earned it by following your plan...

I’tupko, we are all children of God and have the same opportunity to progress and reach the Fifth World according to the free will choices we make in life. We are all worthy of the opportunity, but we do not all progress at the same speed nor reach the Fifth World at the same time; and if we choose to step out of the Great Spirit’s Design, we can lose the great gift offered to us in Heaven. "Free will" suggests that we we are not forced, but must find our own way, according to our choices and where they they lead us. Nature unfolds as the Great Spirit has designed it in Creation, whether we know it or not. The reference you mention referred to our internal, spiritual progress which works together with Nature in our journeys to the Fifth World. Another word to use in place of "worthy" is “merit, which describes the process of Purication we are all going through as we make choices and receive back their consequences—opportunities to learn and grow in love and unselfishness, finally meriting the perfected life we receive in the Fifth World. Some of us learn from our experiences slowly, others progress more rapidly, while some make horrible choices to desert their Earth Mothers and Nature's Design, by going into space-time.....

.....Not all elders agree that the knowledge we are openly returning should be done now. But to some it is very clear that we should. I can only share it with you. When you see the new Time proclaimed as I have explained it to you, it will be a sign to you that this is true; but only you can decide this for yourselves, and choose whether to abandon our Earth or endure with Her. To reach the Fifth World we will need to be stronghearted, and unafraid to give up this life for the next. For, as I have described to you, life goes on after death as part of a natural process, and has no sting as long as we remain within God's/Natures Plan for Life with our Mother Earth.

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

You both believe in a system of duality, that is, right and wrong, God and Satan, us and them, and that we have to follow a chosen path...

We see a duality, a positive and negative, male and female, also, i'tupko. The Earth Herself is dual being female as our Earth Mother, and male in Her inner Core-Heart. For us the light is the natural universe which is filled with life and growth in the duality of body and awareness (the Great Spirit appearing as Body AND Life forming Creation). Darkness also exists when we desert the natural design of the Universe and embark upon an arrogant course where we place ourselves and what we wish over the Great Spirit.

What you offer Upaava is an opposame.

http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

tru3

12-06-2007, 03:01 PM

G'day tru3,
hmmm...do you mean upaava and I are in agreement but I haven't realised it?

lol, i wouldn't presume to tell you what you have or have not realized, brother. to me, this whole thread is like the five blind men touching different parts of the elephant, my self included. depending on the access point, it feels like different things.

i have always maintained that the wisdom of indigenous people from all over the world (and really, to be consistent, why is credo mutwa's information more credible than that put forward by upaava here?) is the 'purest' form of the information from ancient lemuria. that is a generalized statement, because each tribe is unique as upaava pointed out (there is no "church of the universal tribe" that i know of), and there certainly are exceptions, but when one begins to do a cross-cultural analysis, patterns do emerge.

i guess we really won't know until we go through it, will we? ;)

I understand that we are multidimensional and that our awareness can move between worlds/dimensions/frequencies... so there is/will be an opportunity to move ones awareness to a new vibration called the fifth world... but it sounds so much like another layer of the matrix and/or time loop (well especially the time loop if the fifth world is tied to our concept of linear time as upaava has said).

no question about it. vibrational energies are in the form of repeating waves. they have a unique rythym.

this may sound like a lame analogy, but when i went through puberty, i freaked out. my hair even turned curly. i had no idea what was happening to me. was it some sinister plot? no, it's the natural timing of an event that was embedded in the dna, that happened when it was ready.

i feel like the earth changes we speak of are similar to this: a natural process. the bodymind is entrained to the earth's field. we are part of it. we can struggle against the changes, but they will happen nevertheless. that's how i see it, anyway.

Infinity by definition means there are infinite paths/doorways, not just a few duality based, popular saviour scenarios which is what the fifth world ascendency sounds like to me. We are always linked to the source, how can it be any other way if the source is all there is? What's with these in-between worlds? Why not cut out the stopovers and shift awareness directly to infinite love?

so, my question is, "what would love do?".

my response would be: "love would be fascinated and delighted with whatever is arising in the moment."

that which we resist, we attract.

If people want a layover in another dimension of experience that's cool, I just like to be aware of what is the ultimate source (which is available now) and what is merely another expression of the illusion which is what the fifth world sounds like to me.

no question about it, and yet, we find ourselves exactly here, don't we?

i've said it before, and i'll say it once more, with feeling: if we're here, we're part of the experiment. no shame, no blame. just part of it. we can blame whoever we like, the loomies, "the man", the dark goddess, wotteva, yet here we are.

if we can just live the highest version of the grandest vision of our lives (a big if, no doubt about that lol), even a little while, every day--as we see it, not some messiah-- everything's gonna be ok, in my book. :)

yinon

12-06-2007, 03:49 PM

G'day Upaava.

When paired opposites define your beliefs, your beliefs will imprison you.

Creation is made up of three aspects.

For example.....

Future / Present / Past

Mind / Soul / Body

Thought / Word / Action

There / In Between / Here

Belief in a system of duality is a belief in seperation. Seperation leads to an "us" and "them" mentality, which makes possible individuals killing other individuals, war.

Duality is the same system The Hierarchy Enslaving You utilise to control the population.

OPPOSAMES !!!

You both have secret knowledge or teachings...

You have both been given "instructions" by some 'God-like' individual, that there is a prophecy about, and this individual will return at "the end of the world" to save us all...

You both offer a "paradise", "heaven", after death if we have earned it by following your plan...

You both believe in a system of duality, that is, right and wrong, God and Satan, us and them, and that we have to follow a chosen path...

What you offer Upaava is an opposame.

http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

BRAVO!!!!!!

I'tupko, I have said many times throughout this thread that there are two polarities within Creation and neither is favored. Rather we are learning to blend them. The terms "Dark" and "light" have been used to illustrate the road which allows us to live in the light of day, from those who have chosen a road which brings them a life which must be lived in the darkness of night.

Modern science has more to learn aboput light, i'tupko. It does not come from the Sun alone, but depends upon the metal cores within each of the worlds circling it. The Cores have sometimes been spoken of in scripture as "lamps" (7 lamps) for this reason. Can we learn from native peoples something which is not yet discovered by science?

Just for the record, I am educated in physics, having been qualified earlier in my life as an operator of S1C and S5W U.S.N nuclear engineering plants. My scientific knowledge is not perfect, but it sometimes helps me to bridge between cultures. I hope that you will also try to understand what I am sharing here. As I said to "I am all I am" earlier; it is offered, not imposed.

Hmmm.. I am not impress by your diploma. What they teach at University are far away from what really happens in the scientific world now.

Usually Universities integrate to their teachings the new genius dicoveries after their death

Walk with the TRUE GENIUS on earth now. Maybe you didn't magnetize them yet!

You gonna learn a lot on the quantum world. You don't learn it at school yet!

Good Luck brother!

upaava

12-06-2007, 06:15 PM

Ngungu'taota, Tutskwa I'qatsi,

i am all i am-- you wrote: "...Belief in a system of duality is a belief in seperation. Seperation leads to an "us" and "them" mentality, which makes possible individuals killing other individuals, war..."

I'tupko, the Lakota proclaim before the beginning and ending of all their ceremonies these words: "mitakuye oyasin." The meaning is "all my relations." This statement tells us that everything is living and part of ONE Family, One Circle of Life throughout Creation. This idea applies to what I have been sharing as well. A Living Universe means that it is ultimately all one, but that it is a manifested form within which we can exist, live, and grow within as part of the Great Spirit's design. As One, the Great Spirit cannot know Him/Herself, cannot be self aware; for self awareness requires another, two at least, a "self and a "not self" from which one can become aware of oneself.

We exist within this Creation, and are part of how it progresses Life from earliest beginnings to our perfected forms. We have come a long way to where we are now, and have but one more step to reach our crowning life. Our world will soon birth Her Egg and go forward with or without us. We will face the same choices that have come in prior ages; and what we choose will determine our futures. Soon, i'tupko, it will no longer be academic. There will be those who will hold fast to our Earth and progress to the Fifth World, and those who will choose to desert our Earth into the Time Frame we have been warned not to use. This is how it has always been.

You wrote: "...You both have secret knowledge or teachings...
You both offer a "paradise", "heaven", after death if we have earned it by following your plan..."

Ta'a yes, these teachings have been kept secret. Some of them because my adoptive native people, as well as others, have seen how our modern world has done with the knowledge they have acquired. Native peoples keeping this sactred information do not wish it to be used in harmful ways. The knowledge of "Time as Direction" (space-time or divided time) has been known by two main groups which have kept it secret for opposite reasons: those who have secreted it to protect us, knowing that it is not meant for us to use as it removes us from Nature's design carrying us to the Fifth World; and those who have selfishly used it for their own vast financial gain, and political power.

You wrote: "...You both believe in a system of duality, that is, right and wrong, God and Satan, us and them, and that we have to follow a chosen path..."

Ta'a, there is the Great Spirit that fills all of Creation, and an unnatural Time structure filled with people who have gone there by the lure of prolonged life and wonderful technology. Those who choose space-time over the Great Spirit's design often fear death, rather than understanding it is as natural as breathing and part of our given cycle of life, death, and growth toward the Fifth World. This space-time world has its ruler who has been given different names. If this is not true you will not see it offered to us. But if it is, when the choice comes to you, choose wisely i'tupko.

Ta'a, as shown on the Hopi Prophecy Rock, there are two roads: one leads to the Fifth World following the birth of our Earth Mother's Egg, and the other leads to nowhere. This is as how the Universe has been made. It is not mystical requiring us to forget the world or universe we are in, looking beyond it, but reminds us that the universe is made for us, and is purposefully caarrying us somewhere as long as we abide within its design. We are being warned that there ARE consequences for not abiding by the natural laws that are part of of Creation-- this is "the right and wrong and chosen path" of Nature, i'tupko, and we cannot change it to fit what we would like it to be. As always there will be those who are immovable from our Earth who will progress to the Morning Star, and those who will run into Time when its lure is dangled before them. Trust in our Earth, i'tupko, in Nature and the Great Spirit.

tru3-- (I) have always maintained that the wisdom of indigenous people from all over the world (...why is credo mutwa's information more credible than that put forward by upaava here?) is the 'purest' form of the information from ancient lemuria. that is a generalized statement, because each tribe is unique as upaava pointed out....and there certainly are exceptions, but when one begins to do a cross-cultural analysis, patterns do emerge. i guess we really won't know until we go through it, will we?..."

My brother, each of us will need to make our own choices using the highest and best within us to choose wisely. When space-time is dangled before us with its amazing technology, and we are deceptively promised that if we go there we will not have to fear death, many, many will leave our Earth desolate as they rush off to this place. Can you believe that regardless of how organized religion has corrupted original truth, that there are still great truths to be found in the bible and other scriptures of the world, as well as with native peoples? Then read how our Mother Earth will mourn our losses:

"Let no man rejoice over me, a widow, and forsaken of many, who for the sins of my children are left desolate; because they departed from the law of God....(15-26) For he hath brought a nation upon them from afar, a shameless nation….who neither reverenced old man, nor pitied child. These have carried away the dear beloved children of the widow….I will cry unto the everlasting in my days. My delicate ones have gone rough ways, and were taken away as a flock caught of the enemies..." (Apocrypha, Bar. 4:12)

"For ask the Earth, and she shall tell thee, that it is she which ought to mourn for the fall of so many that grow upon her. For out of her came all at the first, and out of her shall all others come, and, behold, they walk almost all into destruction, and a multitude of them is utterly rooted out. Who then should make more mourning than she who hath lost so great a multitude? The Mother that hath lost one son? But if (the mother who hath lost one son) sayest unto me, 'My lamentation is not like the Earth's, because I have lost the fruit of my womb, which I brought forth with pains, and bare with sorrows; But the Earth not so!' Then I say unto thee, Like as thou hast brought forth with labor; even so the Earth hath also given her fruit, namely, man, ever since the beginning, unto Him that made her. (Apocrypha 2 Esdras 10:9-14)

When you see the things I have spoken about come to pass, and recognize that what I have shared with you is true, help your brothers and sisters to understand how they are being deceived, and what is truly at stake. Those who undertand what is occurring will be few, and will be needed then to help others to make their choices wisely.

yinon-- you wrote: "...Hmmm.. I am not impress by your diploma. What they teach at University are far away from what really happens in the scientific world now..."

I am sorry if my words made it sound as if I was raising myself up. My only intention was to show that I have been exposed to two different cultures, two worldviews which sometimes helps me to communicate between the two in ways that are difficult for others who were raised within just one or the other.

I think that you would agree that science never has complete knowledge and understanding. It is always changing, adding to its understanding as new hypotheses are tested and our understanding of the universe grows. Many times in the past people believed "now we know it all," or a new idea "is impossible" according to the worldview and paradigm then in vogue. But always new knowledge has arrived and the old paradigms were set aside for the newest picture. Newton's view of the universe was replaced by Einsteins', which was being replaced with Quantum Mechanics, String Theory and Dark Matter; which continues to where?

The knowledge kept by indigenous peoples helps tell us "where," if we will listen. Who hath ears to hear, my brother?

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita,
upaava

upaava

12-06-2007, 06:27 PM

Ngungu'taota, Tutskwa I'qatsi,

My heart is light to see the many people who have been reading this thread. Near to 2000 views shows that many more people have been reading than the few who are posting; but I am indebted to those who posted questions and expressed their views so eloquently and well, allowing us a dialogue within which I could better express the ideas I came here to share with you.

I will soon leave here as most everything I have to pass on to you has been given. I will retrun from time to time to look-in, but most everything I can say has already been given in one of my earlier posts. If there is anyone who has a question they would like to ask before I leave, especially from someone who has not yet posted, please use this opportunity to present it.

If anyone would like, you can e-mail me at:
hohongwitutiwa@sbcglobal.net

umumi pam taaviningwu,
upaava Hohongwitutiwa (my native name)

i am all i am

12-06-2007, 07:04 PM

You wrote: "...You both have secret knowledge or teachings...
You both offer a "paradise", "heaven", after death if we have earned it by following your plan..."

Ta'a yes, these teachings have been kept secret. Some of them because my adoptive native people, as well as others, have seen how our modern world has done with the knowledge they have acquired. Native peoples keeping this sactred information do not wish it to be used in harmful ways. The knowledge of "Time as Direction" (space-time or divided time) has been known by two main groups which have kept it secret for opposite reasons: those who have secreted it to protect us, knowing that it is not meant for us to use as it removes us from Nature's design carrying us to the Fifth World; and those who have selfishly used it for their own vast financial gain, and political power.

Also kept secret from "the general membership of the community" by "higher religious orders"...

Notwithstanding the differences among indigenous peoples, there is generally a common respect for nature and a living Earth, an acceptance of supernatural power, and an attitude of living in-balance with land and life. It should also be noted that within traditional native communities there are often higher religious orders who are initiated in the most sacred knowledge held by their people, knowledge not known to the general membership of the community. My native father held one of the highest positions of authority, knowledge, and responsibility in the higher religious order of his people.

...that also describes what the system is like that is already in place...a select few that rule the many.

OPPOSAMES !!!

http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

quelyn

12-06-2007, 11:11 PM

bigus_dickus

13-06-2007, 02:07 AM

to be or not to be.

it is going to be "live or die" in a way isn't it. people will leave to save their lives as soon as they get the opportunity.

ho1ogram

13-06-2007, 04:05 AM

tru3, I know what your saying, but don't you see it as another heaven or hell scenario?

Everything in this 'reality' is a matrix program, it is all happening in the mind. A future opportunity to choose a path to a more spiritual world is an expectation. Expectations are limitations of the mind.

You probably agree with that. My point is that the fifth world that upaava talks about is simply reinforcing the belief in duality.

to be or not to be.

it is going to be "live or die" in a way isn't it. people will leave to save their lives as soon as they get the opportunity.
Which sounds like a fear based program to me b_d, reinforced by heaven or hell choices. We have choices but they are best utilised now with no expectation of the future. The more we live in the now the quicker the gap between the quantum world and the Newtonian world shrinks, till we see our thoughts manifest in the physical instantly, rather than as the frustratingly slow process that we currently perceive.

redhead

13-06-2007, 04:35 PM

When you see the things I have spoken about come to pass, and recognize that what I have shared with you is true, help your brothers and sisters to understand how they are being deceived, and what is truly at stake. Those who undertand what is occurring will be few, and will be needed then to help others to make their choices wisely.

I just want to thank Upaava for sharing this ancient knowledge with us, which I believe is widely known within indigineous communities, i also want to thank all posters here who contributed with some great questions to make this this about the best thread i've ever read, we will have to see if the things Upaava says come to pass, but personally all this info resonates strongly inside of me and if the things do come to pass we must take the above quote very personally as it is our duty to inform all our earth brothers & sisters.

upaava

13-06-2007, 06:12 PM

Ngungu'taota, Tutskwa I'qatsi,

I will reply to your final messages and questions, and then bid you farewell.

I have not made very many posts here, so if you wish to save them you will have them to study at later times when my words will become more important in our lives.

i am all i am-- you wrote: "...Also kept secret from "the general membership of the community" by "higher religious orders"....that also describes what the system is like that is already in place...a select few that rule the many..."

I'tupko, for my native people, and other indigenous peoples, being part of the higher religious order (medicine person) means to give ones life in service of the Great Spirit, the Earth, and ones people, the opposite of ruling them. My native father was ready to give up his life in this service, as were the others who live to protect all Land and Life. During the years my native father and I worked together sharing this message with others before his death, everyone who knew him was greatly moved by his deep humility, compassion, and complete devotion to our Earth. Even while writing these words about him, I can hear my father telling me not to spend time speaking about him, but to tell others about our Earth Mother. Father always bowed to others as their servant and was uncomfortable when some non-native people put him (as a native medicine man) upon a pedestal, which he always discouraged in every way he could. As I wrote earlier, and is true of those who serve Land and Life: the greatest among us are not the wealthiest, most knowledgeable, or most politically powerful, but those who are the greatest servants. The higher religious orders I referred to seek to be such servants.

quelyn-- you wrote: "...With deep respect I have just one very simple question. We or I should not leave earth? YES? These bids to depart will be up front and obvious I take it. Sorry if this is too simplistic........I want to make sure I have ears to hear or eyes to read as the case may be..."

It is not simplistic to try to clearly understand my words, i'siwa, it is good and natural to seek such understanding; as your brother I am here for that purpose. Your question is most important to understand.

Ta'a, yes, we should never leave our Earth, She is our Land and Life; and She is about to ascend to the crowning place of our system, giving those who endure with Her all we have been striving toward for many ages gone by. We know that two things will occur:

1) The existence of the unnatural Time Structure will be suddenly revealed as a wonderful new discovery, and we will be shown this place we can go to with amzing technology (do not even look at this place) where we will be told old age will be a thing of the past, or even that we can be immortal there (a very ancient enticement), which will be distortions and lies meant to lure us away from our Earth into this place.

2) There will be scientific pronouncements causing us to fear remaining with the Earth-- how wonderful and lucky that we will have the "new" Time structure to escape to. They may even announce that our Earth's Core will come out as I have explained to you as the birth of our Earth's Egg, which is a natural part of the process we have long been progressing within, taking us Home to the Fifth World-Heaven. But they will tell us that the ejection of our Core will mean the destruction of our world, or other words and claims meant to drive us into space-time. With opened eyes we can see that our hope does not lie beyond our world, but with the Earth which God has given to us as our life-giving mother and home.

bd-- you wrote: "...it is going to be "live or die" in a way isn't it. people will leave to save their lives as soon as they get the opportunity..."

Ta'a, those who have forgotten that death and life are part of a natural cycle will be drawn to the seductive lure of prolonged life in space-time. Those who desert our Earth will be deceived by the half-truths and lies foisted upon us, as we will not be told what we give up when we abandon our mother world. This is very sad for me to think about, which helps to keep me sharing this message wherever I can.

ho1ogram-- you wrote: "...Which sounds like a fear based program to me b_d, reinforced by heaven or hell choices. We have choices but they are best utilised now with no expectation of the future..."

I'tupko, The last thought I would like to leave with you and everyone here, is to remember that what I have passed on to you is NOT a message of doom and gloom, but one of great promise and joy. The events to come do not represent the end of our world by any means, but its renewal and glorification. If I have done a good job explaining the information being shared with you, you will understand that what will transpire in the days ahead is a wonderful opportunity to achieve the highest goal we have been striving toward for ages upon our Earth. When a human mother is in labor to deliver her child do we focus upon her birth pains or the wonderful new life which follows? Of course, it is the life. In the same way, those who understand the meaning of the coming events welcome this Purification Time, with all of our Earth’s laboring-tribulations, as the long promised coming of Paradise, an event to be faced with joyful anticipation rather than fear.

redhead-- you wrote: "...…we will have to see if the things Upaava says come to pass, but personally all this info resonates strongly inside of me and if the things do come to pass we must take the above quote very personally as it is our duty to inform all our earth brothers & sisters."

As hard as this message may be for some to accept, one proof of it will be when we see the events herein predicted to occur, come to pass. At that time, send a voice-- pray-- that we may recognize the truth from the deceptions. The coming of the Fifth World is now very close-at-hand, as the signs around us abundantly proclaim for those who understand their meaning. There are many voices on the Internet and in many other places, proclaiming a myriad of conflicting ideas about the future. Among these many voices is our Mother’s, sending us the truth. But only you can recognize and act upon the truth when it is needed.

To find the truth we must be willing to humbly open our hearts and minds, however difficult this may be. If we cling too tightly to the imperfect understanding of our age, to false and misleading teachings, or to our own wishful thinking, we will be unable to receive from the Great Spirit what we truly need during the days ahead. Listen to your hearts in quietude and peace, praying to be shown that which takes you home, from that which leads to darkness. Be immovable from our Mother Earth one more time, enduring faithfully through Her birth pangs, trusting that death has no sting for those who have lived within their covenants. Be watchful and consoled. When your choices arrive, wisely remain within the Land and Laws the Great Spirit has created for us.

You have recognized our responsibility and connection to one another in our shared journey upon our Earth-- that when we understand the truth from the deceptions, that we share that knowledge, helping as many of our brothers and sisters as possible to reach the Fifth World with us.

I will try and return when I can; but until then, if you think new people would benefit from this thread, please pull it back to the top where it can be found. If you wish, you can write me at: hohongwitutiwa@sbcglobal.net

naawakna nihqe kyaptsita - with love and respect,
upaava