Important! A 4th Dimensional shift likely in 2012?

[vladmir]

First, i would like to ask the members here if they have heard David speak about anything related to a "Earth Shifting from 3D to 4D "?

I have heard this from a variety of sources, which makes me look hard at it, trying to make some sense out of this.
One source is 'The RA material: the Law of One'.
Second is Barbara Marciniak's incredible books documenting chanelling from the pleadians,
Third is Drunvalo Melchizedek's books "The Ancient Secret of the Flower of Life, volumes I & II"
There are probably others.

What im trying to get is, they are essentially talking about an actual cessation of 3D life as we know it on Earth, as Earth is apparently gearing up to vibrate in this 4th dimension.
And there is talk about a 'harvest'.
Those souls who are oriented to service of the self, will move to a negative polarity 4th dimensional Earth, those of love and light+ service to others will move to +ve polarity 4th D Earth, and the population majority who fit nowhere WILL ACTUALLY BE TRANSPORTED TO ANOTHER PLANET WHICH BASICALLY LOOKS JUST LIKE EARTH, TO CONTINUE THEIR EVOLUTION!!!

If this sounds bizzare, i agree with you.
Any members who have repeatedly also heard this come up, in regards to 2012 or 2015 or later, i would like your comments please, thank you.

[entrangermercenary]

First, i would like to ask the members here if they have heard David speak about anything related to a "Earth Shifting from 3D to 4D "?

I have heard this from a variety of sources, which makes me look hard at it, trying to make some sense out of this.
One source is 'The RA material: the Law of One'.
Second is Barbara Marciniak's incredible books documenting chanelling from the plaedians,
Third is Drunvalo Melchizedek's books "The Ancient Secret of the Flower of Life, volumes I & II"
There are probably others.

What im trying to get is, they are essentially talking about an actual cessation of 3D life as we know it on Earth, as Earth is apparently gearing up to vibrate in this 4th dimension.
And there is talk about a 'harvest'.
Those souls who are oriented to service of the self, will move to a negative polarity 4th dimensional Earth, those of love and light+ service to others will move to +ve polarity 4th D Earth, and the population majority who fit nowhere WILL ACTUALLY BE TRASPORTED TO ANOTHER PLANET WHICH BASICALLY LOOKS JUST LKE EARTH, TO COTINUE THEIR EVOLUTION!!!

If this sounds bizzare, i agree with you.
Any members who have repeatedly also heard this come up, in regards to 2012 or 2015 or later, i would like your comments please, thank you.

I would like to know who/what is going to decide the souls that are to stay and leave ??

[illuminati downfall]

As it so happens, I believe in this theory quite firmly. :) I can't really give any links to useful sites, of hand, but I do think that it's one of those things that each person has to understand and interperate (sp) in their own way. I understand it as the "ascension" of earth and the human consciousness. As for who will get to decide who goes and who stays, I personally think that each for us chooses for ourselves, by our personal intent, our feeling and our actions. I would write more abut this, but I'm still unsure about what's appropriate for this forum. I'm still very new here, LOL.

[vladmir]

I would like to know who/what is going to decide the souls that are to stay and leave ??
Apparently, the higher selves of each individual human soul,
is in conscious touch with the infinite Creator/Intelligence, and so the soul itself will decide which way it will go, based on the life that is being led while on Earth.
Those who are doing evil, will get into 4D -ve polarity Earth, where they will reap the consequences of the evil they have sown themselves.
BTW, the evil elite at the top, actually know the consequences of what they are doing!!
They are conciously being evil, service to the self.

Those here on Earth who used all this strife and anger to break out of the matrix, instead of succumbing to the evil,
and recognize that there is more to life than what we are being told,
and seek to find the 'truth' about the concepts of Love and Light being the foundation of the Cosmos,
these souls will 'graduate' to 4D +ve polarity, where it will be like 'heaven', and they will be choosing to evolve further thru love/light.

All this is fine, and i can understand it on an intellectual level.
But my mind boggles, when i think of "the rest of us", who aren't sufficiently good or bad/evil....................that somehow, this, the majority of humanity will actually be transported to another physical planet just like Earth, to carry on their 3D experience, and learn from it, and choose to progress further into service to others or service to self.

This, if i understand correctly, is what will happen, according to various sources, who give it different names like 'ascension' and so forth.

The date itself, 2012, probably is too soon, maybe it will happen in 2050, although im just speculating.
But the point im trying to understand is, does this seem possible or probable to you, the readers?
Because its pretty far out!!

[danster82]

I dont believe it I think its just an age old lie for the human mind that theres a guaranteed salvation at some future date, and it also makes everyone docile waiting around for their future date I cant even concieve of the amount of people around the world waiting on 2012 just waiting and thats exactly what the lie is designed for.

Im not saying theres nothing to 2012 but its likely a cycle like all clocks.

your not going 4d if your still full of ego where was the lesson?

[xpleet]

These messages all sound familiar. Alien contactees and those of GFOL also speak about the same thing.


What they don't tell anyone is that the universe is collapsing and that negativity and evil (which is responsible for the creation of it) come to a final stop.

for those who clinge to the saying that Earth will shift into the 4th/5th dimension, they have to be educated, that the Earth already exists and always did in the 4th dimension, the Astral world.
What is actually happening is a process of contraction. The astral planes and the physical world are moving close to one another aswell as time and space, these systems are all merge into one another, then completly collapse.
Many already feel the effects of these simulated illusions breaking down.

There is a true quote in the bible that basically says that some will go to the heavens while others will stay. What this refers to is the final liberation of true-spirits and the fall of the false- and fallen ones who will go down as one with the illusion.


I would suggest you read some of Amitakh's materials it's all in the detail and it happens to be true all along.

[lordzoma]

Good and evil don't exist. Light and dark polarities are equal.

A dimensional shift for the earth IS taking place, it's the graduation event for the earth spirit. When it happens all life on 3d earth will end cataclysmically. It will NOT happen with a whimper.

Earth already exists in 4d right now, it's just that the astral around the earth is broken up into sub bands. In the 'future' after the graduation event life on earth is pristine and devoid of 'civilization' and with the sub bands gone, sentient life exists in the 4d astral around the planet.

The division between positive and negative absolutely has its roots in an alien agenda. Whether it be from dark oriented sequentials, or from lightsiders like the galactic federation, rest assured it is complete and total bullshit. The only way to graduate is by moving forward towards true balance. This has nothing to do with the polarities, though sequentials in the game would have you believe otherwise.

as for 2012

It is just a date.

Earth graduation could happen before that date or it could happen after. It WILL however happen around that date. The earth's destiny is not chosen by the clocks of men or the cycles of the galaxy. It is its own destiny and it will graduate in its own due time.

[ultimate]

4D = Black Hole

The Black Hole Experiment will take 4 years for full effect.

[entrangermercenary]

Those here on Earth who used all this strife and anger to break out of the matrix, instead of succumbing to the evil,
and recognize that there is more to life than what we are being told,
and seek to find the 'truth' about the concepts of Love and Light being the foundation of the Cosmos,
these souls will 'graduate' to 4D +ve polarity, where it will be like 'heaven', and they will be choosing to evolve further thru love/light

Bring it on , I no where Ill b , somewhere with a bit of fun and danger. If the scriptures are true you can stick heaven up ur jacksy :D

[ultimate]

4D = Black Hole

The Black Hole Experiment will take 4 years for full effect.
http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20080407/475_LHC1_080407.jpg

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080405/black_hole_080405

An American and a Spaniard have launched a lawsuit to stop scientists from firing up a machine they fear could destroy not just life on Earth but the planet itself.


International scientists, including dozens from Canada, are about to launch the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), a 27-kilometre long particle accelerator built near Geneva, Switzerland. It will shoot beams of protons at each other in an effort to recreate conditions that resemble what the universe might have been like in the milliseconds after the Big Bang.



"We want to probe the most basic particles and constituents (and we're) trying to understand how matter was made," Robert McPherson, a University of Victoria physics professor who is working on the project, told CTV.ca in a phone interview from Vancouver.


In the process, scientists may end up creating miniature black holes -- areas of space that have gravitational pulls so strong that not even light can escape.


The more matter a black hole pulls in, the stronger it becomes. And that's what worries Walter Wagner, the American who is suing to temporarily stop the project. He says the creation of these black holes here on Earth, no matter how small, may unleash a chain reaction that could destroy the planet.


Wagner says there's a possibility that black holes could just get bigger and bigger as they pull more and more matter into themselves.


"Eventually, all of Earth would fall into such growing micro-black-holes, converting Earth into a medium-sized black hole, around which would continue to orbit the moon, satellites, and the (International Space Station)," according to court papers Wagner, along with a citizen of Spain, filed in Honolulu.


In other words, Wagner asserts the LHC is a machine that will end up causing the Earth to eat itself -- perhaps in less than a century. It may sound fantastic, like a plotline out of a James Bond movie where an evil scientist holds the earth for ransom with a deadly weapon, but Wagner says the possibility isn't science fiction.


"Science fiction can be very strange and sometimes it can come very true. This is in the realm of possibilities where fiction can become fact," Wagner told CTV.ca in a telephone interview from his home in Honolulu.


Wagner, an education consultant who studied physics at Berkeley, says scientists working on the project haven't done enough studies to make sure the scenario he envisions won't actually occur. The suit -- which is filed against various U.S. agencies, including the Environmental Protection Agency -- aims to get a restraining order to stop work on the project until more safety studies are completed.


McPherson admits small black holes may be created, but he says the concerns are overblown. He says there is virtually no possibility that any black hole that scientists may create at the Large Hadron Collider will end up absorbing the Earth.


"Assuming our wildest fantasies, how much matter can one of these black holes consume in a second, in a year, or even in several billion years?" asks McPherson.


"A black hole we could make at the LHC would only consume a tiny fraction of a gram of matter from Earth. There's no possibility of causing any damage to the Earth," he said.


McPherson says the black holes will decay and disappear quickly. He adds that what scientists are trying to do in a laboratory setting at the LHC happens in nature daily.


"The Earth is constantly being bombarded by cosmic rays. Many of them have much higher energies than what we can create with the LHC. If something dangerous was being made in these interactions it would already have happened in cosmic ray interactions," he said.


But that's no comfort to Wagner. He says the LHC is like a factory that creates a waste product without any way to dispose of it. If he's correct, the factory won't get rid of the byproduct. Instead, the byproduct will dispose of the factory -- and everything else.

[size_of_light]

First, i would like to ask the members here if they have heard David speak about anything related to a "Earth Shifting from 3D to 4D "?

I have heard this from a variety of sources, which makes me look hard at it, trying to make some sense out of this.
One source is 'The RA material: the Law of One'.
Second is Barbara Marciniak's incredible books documenting chanelling from the pleadians,
Third is Drunvalo Melchizedek's books "The Ancient Secret of the Flower of Life, volumes I & II"
There are probably others.

What im trying to get is, they are essentially talking about an actual cessation of 3D life as we know it on Earth, as Earth is apparently gearing up to vibrate in this 4th dimension.
And there is talk about a 'harvest'.
Those souls who are oriented to service of the self, will move to a negative polarity 4th dimensional Earth, those of love and light+ service to others will move to +ve polarity 4th D Earth, and the population majority who fit nowhere WILL ACTUALLY BE TRANSPORTED TO ANOTHER PLANET WHICH BASICALLY LOOKS JUST LIKE EARTH, TO CONTINUE THEIR EVOLUTION!!!

If this sounds bizzare, i agree with you.
Any members who have repeatedly also heard this come up, in regards to 2012 or 2015 or later, i would like your comments please, thank you.

Problem is it's all just speculation.

Especially when people talk about the Pleadians or the 'harvesting of souls'.

No one knows for certain what'll happen in five minutes let alone in four years.

Cough...millennium bug...ahem. Excuse me.

Remember all those eunuchs in purple jumpsuits and Nike trainers who committed suicide believing the orbiting mother ship would transport them off planet?

[trojan_scapegoat]

First, i would like to ask the members here if they have heard David speak about anything related to a "Earth Shifting from 3D to 4D "?

.

What David Says about all forms of belief that rely on 'hope' (I.E your reward will come tomorrow, tomorrow, always tomorrow, just be good now, do as you're told and all will be well tomorrow....) is that it totally serves the manipulators of the matrix.

In the chapter entitled "Old Age, New Age - Same Story" in his book Infinite Love is the Only Truth Everything Else is Illusion Icke calls all these sort of false 'soul-evolution' theories the "last line of defence for the Matrix." He states that the effectiveness of such a concept stems from "the very fact that it is more aware than atheism and conventional religion. Those who expand their consciousness to see through the absurdity of current human existence and the mainstream explanations for 'life' are in danger of sussing the virtual-reality game they are caught in. The Matrix needs a trap to ensnare them before the final pennies drop and the New Age is it."

This is another New Age theory, albeit one of the slightly more 'out there' ones. "We are in awe of a cosmic game boy," says Icke. "It's just a trap."

Please buy the above title, it is a must read though does not of course have all the answers. They can only come from yourself. :)

[runciter]

I would like to know who/what is going to decide the souls that are to stay and leave ??

the choice is yours.

[runciter]

Good and evil don't exist. Light and dark polarities are equal.


evil = hurting other creatures

there's no need to question this simple truth, unless you're doing bad things.

[entrangermercenary]

evil = hurting other creatures

there's no need to question this simple truth, unless you're doing bad things.

Does good not come out of evil ??

[ultimate]

Ultimate intelligence, we wrote our scripts designing the universe backwards then we entered for the practical.

Have you asked Santa what you want yet?

2009 - 2012

[airkraft]

We only think about the souls of people alive on earth today, but what about the souls of the evil people who have lived many years ago.....and the souls of the good decent people that have lived long ago. Where are their souls now ?
Are they reincarnated into present day lives ?? and thus all thats ever lived on earth keep returning after death ? Or are they in another dimension awaiting our arrival ? and new souls have kept manifesting on earth since humans first arrived here.

The reason I ask these questions is I have known, as I`m sure lots of you have, some really nice, helpful, decent people, who have now passed on, I would like to think that their souls will benefit from anything good whatever happens in the future.

[runciter]

Does good not come out of evil ??

stop playing with words and decide: are you a human being or an illuminatus?

[entrangermercenary]

stop playing with words and decide: are you a human being or an illuminatus?


I have done good and I have done evil, but who decides what is evil or good?? IT may b your perception that it is evil but you may not c the bigger picture. Lets say for instance I had killed somebody or several people for that matter.May b it was my mission here on earth to do that and prevent another Hitler or Stalin, a child murderer or an assasin who was going to kill Mr Icke.
Who decides you?? Dont think so

[runciter]

I have done good and I have done evil, but who decides what is evil or good?? IT may b your perception that it is evil but you may not c the bigger picture. Lets say for instance I had killed somebody or several people for that matter.May b it was my mission here on earth to do that and prevent another Hitler or Stalin, a child murderer or an assasin who was going to kill Mr Icke.
Who decides you?? Dont think so

are you going to hurt other living creatures in the next future?

[psyked]

Have you ever thought looking at it this way?

When a person dies, it goes to either 4D or 5D.

So that would mean in order for the earth to transcend it has to die?
On a cataclysmic event? (black hole, sun, nuclear whatever you want to call it.)

This all sounds really familiar with the bible, crazy people preaching doomsday, things that never really happened.

but this time its supposed to happen :cool:

i guess only time will tell:rolleyes:

[elirien]

First, i would like to ask the members here if they have heard David speak about anything related to a "Earth Shifting from 3D to 4D "?

I have heard this from a variety of sources, which makes me look hard at it, trying to make some sense out of this.
One source is 'The RA material: the Law of One'.
Second is Barbara Marciniak's incredible books documenting chanelling from the pleadians,
Third is Drunvalo Melchizedek's books "The Ancient Secret of the Flower of Life, volumes I & II"
There are probably others.

What im trying to get is, they are essentially talking about an actual cessation of 3D life as we know it on Earth, as Earth is apparently gearing up to vibrate in this 4th dimension.
And there is talk about a 'harvest'.
Those souls who are oriented to service of the self, will move to a negative polarity 4th dimensional Earth, those of love and light+ service to others will move to +ve polarity 4th D Earth, and the population majority who fit nowhere WILL ACTUALLY BE TRANSPORTED TO ANOTHER PLANET WHICH BASICALLY LOOKS JUST LIKE EARTH, TO CONTINUE THEIR EVOLUTION!!!

If this sounds bizzare, i agree with you.
Any members who have repeatedly also heard this come up, in regards to 2012 or 2015 or later, i would like your comments please, thank you.

This is my mad rant: We are all ready shifting into 4D and love to oneself is service to others. 2012 we will be whole again and it will be the first step for a real humanity.

[grenadene]

We only think about the souls of people alive on earth today, but what about the souls of the evil people who have lived many years ago.....and the souls of the good decent people that have lived long ago. Where are their souls now ?
Are they reincarnated into present day lives ?? and thus all thats ever lived on earth keep returning after death ? Or are they in another dimension awaiting our arrival ? and new souls have kept manifesting on earth since humans first arrived here.

The reason I ask these questions is I have known, as I`m sure lots of you have, some really nice, helpful, decent people, who have now passed on, I would like to think that their souls will benefit from anything good whatever happens in the future.

I don't think their current (as we know it existence) has been expanded into linear time, so maybe they are caught in the moment so to speak, or maybe they are reliving their lives in another universe...maybe they didn't die in the own universe? Who knows? :)

[entrangermercenary]

are you going to hurt other living creatures in the next future?

Hang on ill get my crystal ball!!

[runciter]

Hang on ill get my crystal ball!!

are you planning to hurt other living creatures in the next future?

[entrangermercenary]

are you planning to hurt other living creatures in the next future?

Im not planning anything in the next future!! I take it as it comes. It seems to me that you being enlightened, all ready have your "next future" planned out . How is that?? How do we know ur not the next Pol pot in the " NEXT FUTURE"

[runciter]

Im not planning anything in the next future!! I take it as it comes. It seems to me that you being enlightened, all ready have your "next future" planned out . How is that?? How do we know ur not the next Pol pot in the " NEXT FUTURE"

i'm not planning any kind of aggression, i don't need a crystal ball to tell it.

[mountain]

I would like to know who/what is going to decide the souls that are to stay and leave ??

You will.
:cool:

[entrangermercenary]

i'm not planning any kind of aggression, i don't need a crystal ball to tell it.

SO you know the future then ?? pmsl :D

[spiraltrance]

Any members who have repeatedly also heard this come up, in regards to 2012 or 2015 or later, i would like your comments please, thank you.

The shift from 3d to 4d has already begun and will reach critical mass in 2012. Me personaly, i'm already starting to be able to feel my conscious accelerate 'beyond' a 3d perspective or rather 3d limitation. It's not permanant yet and is very intermitant. However there is something very big happening that began around mid 2000, like a wave that's slowly been gathering more and more momentum. It hasn't been all fun for me and often very painful but i'm now starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

The date itself, 2012, probably is too soon, maybe it will happen in 2050, although im just speculating.

2012 is when it will peak, not 2050.

[abrilliantone]

I would like to know who/what is going to decide the souls that are to stay and leave ??


Two simple things:

1) If you've learned and accepted that you are The Infinite All and that all of this is simply a part of the whole of that Infinite All. Then your 'awareness' shall move on.


2) If you don't know or don't belive that you are The Infinite All and 'belive' that you are a human who is living a life. Then your 'awareness' will simply stay put because you 'belive' this 'reality' as being 'all there is'.



So that decision lies within us all.




http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/think004.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

[whiterain]

are you planning to hurt other living creatures in the next future?

only if your planning on eating, which i guess most of us are

[noobcybot]

I don't think their current (as we know it existence) has been expanded into linear time, so maybe they are caught in the moment so to speak, or maybe they are reliving their lives in another universe...maybe they didn't die in the own universe? Who knows? :)

This is sort of the same train of thought as I am on. The freaky thing is we might be some of those people caught in the moment. Thus 2012 for us would have to be a cataclysmic event not just on the scale of the universe but this reality and all our "moments" and a shfit to a higher self....or something.
In any case the amount of predictions from differant civilisations, races and religions would seem to indicate that if something is going to happen it might aswell be in 2012. Either that or it is part of the agendas plot and nothing to do with anything that mystical. But that would suggest that the plot is indeed thousands of years old ( which would again indicate something supernatural ), or we have been lied to about the Mayan Calender etc...

[romas]

It's not suggested that we're going to see physical evidence of this shift, we're all blind as far as light spectrum goes, then you have various other energy forms that we are totally unaware off in this great matrix, it might already be under way and we have no idea.

It's quite possible we're not going to live long enough to see this change of consciousness etc. manifest physical changes in the world. I mean it could literally take houndreds of years if not more. Which is quite sad actually, but seems more along the lines of earthly experience so far.

[marpat]

So what is important about 2012? I have been reading that the Baktun count is 20 rather than 13 and saw a stele that backs this conclusion. If this is the case then the cycles will not reset in 2012 and we will just enter baktun 14.

I think a lot of people hinge their belief on 13 being the end of the cycle but if the real count is 20 then its not really the case is it?

[anahata]

I would like to know who/what is going to decide the souls that are to stay and leave ??

I believe that's personal choice.

[abrilliantone]

The common misconception about 2012. Is that people think that the world will blow up or that everything will just cease to exist. This is not the case.

The only thing that will happen is that the people who are aware of their true nature. (know that they are Infinite Oneness) Shall leave this reality and their awareness shall tune into the next higher frequency.

For the people who don't buy into it, then it'll be just like any other day. Minus the fact that some of the population has somehow disappeared with no trace at all. (oh, and everyone is becoming super religious, super fast )


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1ts3T9gy4w&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUFLpTNMK1s&feature=channel


The Illuminati knows this all to well. This why they are turning up The Fear Of..Machine. In hopes that they keep us (some of us anyway) identifying with this reality, by keeping us in fear of the unknown.

As long as anyone belives that they are a human being living a life, that this is all there is, and only accept what their beliefs agree with.Then they will stay locked in the 3rd-dimension, 5-sense reality.

As long as anyone belives (know) that they are Infinite Oneness and that this all just an illusion of Oneness Creation. Then they are not locked into this reality and when Oneness opens the door - so to speak.

For us who are ready to check out of experiencing this not knowing reality. We will seem to just disappear. Because their perception will still be in tune to the 5-sense reality.

The Illuminati even discuss the ascension. But as we all know with them, they twist the hell out things. In there Bible it talks about The Rapture:
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (King James Version)


15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.




At first glance it would seem that it is telling us how the lord is gonna come and take all of his faithfull followers, back to heaven with him.


This passage has a double meaning though.


The first meaning is for the people to take literally. So when the people see and hear about the mass disappreances that gonna occur. They'll immediately connect it to their religion's Rapture.

Leaving themselves victims to The Illuminati's continuing reign of terror. The second meaning, the hidden meaning tells us how. Only the ones who are awake, to the fact that they are The One shall (be The One) rejoin that true Oneness.

So yeah, life will go on just know that The Illuminati hooks will still be imbedded in everyone's asses. While the rest of us will be Creating whatever we want to.





http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/emoticon-object-016.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/)

[cleft_asunder]

What David Says about all forms of belief that rely on 'hope' (I.E your reward will come tomorrow, tomorrow, always tomorrow, just be good now, do as you're told and all will be well tomorrow....) is that it totally serves the manipulators of the matrix.

In the chapter entitled "Old Age, New Age - Same Story" in his book Infinite Love is the Only Truth Everything Else is Illusion Icke calls all these sort of false 'soul-evolution' theories the "last line of defence for the Matrix." He states that the effectiveness of such a concept stems from "the very fact that it is more aware than atheism and conventional religion. Those who expand their consciousness to see through the absurdity of current human existence and the mainstream explanations for 'life' are in danger of sussing the virtual-reality game they are caught in. The Matrix needs a trap to ensnare them before the final pennies drop and the New Age is it."

This is another New Age theory, albeit one of the slightly more 'out there' ones. "We are in awe of a cosmic game boy," says Icke. "It's just a trap."

Please buy the above title, it is a must read though does not of course have all the answers. They can only come from yourself. :)

David later in the book says that "something else is going on," "God is hacking into the system." This is similar/the same to what Amitkah Stanford states in her website.

I hope they are right, because I'm sick of this bullshit.

2012 and the snake pit:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43180&highlight=2012

[marpat]

I believe that's personal choice.

Says who? what if you want to go and you are not ready? the knock back might be hard to take, and there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

[cleft_asunder]

Says who? what if you want to go and you are not ready? the knock back might be hard to take, and there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

You missed the part where reality splits 3 ways.

[anahata]

Says who? what if you want to go and you are not ready? the knock back might be hard to take, and there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I hope there isn’t a knock back situation; I love weeping and gnashing as much as the next person.

I don't think it's like a light switch or a case of here and there. We aren’t 'going' anywhere as we’re already here/there... not that we can chop and change our environment/reality in an instant, there are rules in play (thought/creation time lapse thingy?) to allow us to experience each other otherwise if everyone had their wishes come true, there would be chaos and we couldn’t combine into a joint reality.

I think there is a difference between 'wanting to go' and consciously KNOWING how to 'go' but it’s a long learning curve of awareness perhaps even throughout many lifetimes.

I don’t believe we are completely alone in these decisions, I think we have guides opening doorways for us to experience what we hope to. We each have to make the choices to walk through these doorways to achieve the ‘hoped for’ goals with avenues are available to those who are willing to put the effort in… but to know this and to know you have choices to change your reality may mean you are more ready to ‘go’, being more conscious? Who knows, it’s just a thought I really don’t know.
Then again there are those in the world who appear to have very limited experiences, born into real hardship so the jury is sort of out on it.

[elirien]

So what is important about 2012? I have been reading that the Baktun count is 20 rather than 13 and saw a stele that backs this conclusion. If this is the case then the cycles will not reset in 2012 and we will just enter baktun 14.

I think a lot of people hinge their belief on 13 being the end of the cycle but if the real count is 20 then its not really the case is it?

can you share what stele that was marpat? I'm interested.