"NOW You're Asking!?"

[hagbard_celine]

Something strange happened at the bank yesterday. I was just paying in a cheque, as you do, and the cashier asked me if I wanted to extend my overdraft limit. This is the first time I've ever been asked that, at least while I'm at the cash desk with a queue behind me!:confused: I've extended my overdraft before, but it's always been me asking them, not the other way round! It got me thinking.

I soon remembered that something happened a couple of weeks ago which may have "marked my card", so to speak. I received some backpay from a wages adjustment at work which allowed me to pay off my existing overdraft. This means I must be one of the few people in Oxford who is currently not in debt! It's necessary to understand a bit how the global financial system works to realize that people not in debt are intolerable to the modern economic system! (The brilliant movie Zeitgeist Addendum is a good introduction to this subject.)


What with the current financial recession it's possible that I've been targeted for "fiscal reeducation"! I'll keep you informed of any further developments.

Interestingly I've had odd experiences with my bank before. A few years ago I wrote to them, three times, about my Chip + PIN card asking what information was stored on the chip, and what the chip's capabilites were. They never replied.

[mushroombot]

I wonder if the bank staff gets a little perk if they manage to sell an overdraft extension, wouldn't be surprised. For the youngsters, thats probably where it starts, the casual question from the cashier - 'would you like an overdraft with that sir?' It gets the customer thinking about other credit options.

[marpat]

Something strange happened at the bank yesterday. I was just paying in a cheque, as you do, and the cashier asked me if I wanted to extend my overdraft limit. This is the first time I've ever been asked that, at least while I'm at the cash desk with a queue behind me!:confused: I've extended my overdraft before, but it's always been me asking them, not the other way round! It got me thinking.

I soon remembered that something happened a couple of weeks ago which may have "marked my card", so to speak. I received some backpay from a wages adjustment at work which allowed me to pay off my existing overdraft. This means I must be one of the few people in Oxford who is currently not in debt! It's necessary to understand a bit how the global financial system works to realize that people not in debt are intolerable to the modern economic system! (The brilliant movie Zeitgeist Addendum is a good introduction to this subject.)


What with the current financial recession it's possible that I've been targeted for "fiscal reeducation"! I'll keep you informed of any further developments.

Interestingly I've had odd experiences with my bank before. A few years ago I wrote to them, three times, about my Chip + PIN card asking what information was stored on the chip, and what the chip's capabilites were. They never replied.


I would have thought they would have to tell you what was on the chip. can you not find out under freedom of information? cant see why you cannot get access to your own bank details.

[lhaull]

I wonder if the bank staff gets a little perk if they manage to sell an overdraft extension, wouldn't be surprised. For the youngsters, thats probably where it starts, the casual question from the cashier - 'would you like an overdraft with that sir?' It gets the customer thinking about other credit options.

They sure do in some dept and banks.
Every time they sell a loan they get commission on the sale.
I once asked a certain bank for a card I could use online, a visa debit card. They proceeded to strongly assure me that the most secure and better solution was a credit card. Which I finally took after much persuasion from a sweet middle aged lady with the sales skills of a buzz saw going through butter (She was like my mum and I couldn't disappoint her) but I expressly told her no more than 1k limit because I have never had money, and if some falls in my lap I have some in built need to get rid of it as fast as I can before it melts or exploded or something.
It arrived at me home and as I knew I would, being that I have been poor most of this life, I got to spending it on all the things I always thought were cool. Enjoying what others have been doing for years, shopping for stuff you don't need but that is nice to have.
The 1k went far, I had lots of things, I had 2 pairs of shoes, not just one. I had a new stereo from Argos, I bought my sister and my mum some stuff. It actually went 3x further than I could believe.
Bastages had given me a 3k limit instead of the 1k I had asked for.
So next time I was in the bank I went to see the woman, she look confused and said alright well how about if you take a loan out your credit is good, its less interest than the credit card and you can pay off your credit card today.
I decided it was better to pay 8% than 18% so I took the loan.
She advised me to take 4k as once I had paid off the credit card I could put the card in a drawer and forget about it until I had an emergency, but I would have some security if I had that extra 1k in my bank.
I swithered a bit, 4k! I had just wanted to pay for my Everquest subscription online and now I had spent 3k on crap I didn't need just because I had never had the ability to do it. Now she wants me to owe 4k.
Looking at your earnings you could have 4k today and easily afford to pay it back over x amount of months. Its only xyz per week.
I finally gave in and agreed, I had been at the desk for 40 minutes and people were getting really pissy waiting to see her. I felt awkward sitting in the main area of a bank with people watching.
The forms were printed and signed in a matter of seconds.
I worked and paid faithfully for 11 months, the money coming straight out of my account where my wages were paid but when my sister had a breakdown, I dropped everything, quit work and flew out to be with her as she had no one and was in a foreign country. I stayed with her for a year, getting her back on her feet. Then once I returned to the UK to find a job, I called into a local bank knowing that I would be refused an account as I had defaulted on the loan repayments but they did the credit check and gave me an account there and then, with a visa debit card.
That was 7 years ago, I have not used a credit card since nor will again.

[mushroombot]

Credit sure is a slippery slope, one which I've fallen foul of myself. When you're living on credit, any change in circumstances can really throw a spanner in the works.

Credit cards can be useful if you are disciplined with them / paying them off each month and perhaps keeping one for emergencies. The card companies rely on folks slipping up though, ending up paying the minimum. My problem was having several moderate debts that mounted up. Its a vicious circle in the end, the more small debts I had, the less disposable income I had for the necessary things that cropped up so therefore needed to use more credit. Hence refinancing to clear existing cards and starting again, making the banks even more money in interest. I stopped playing in the end;)

I've got a 14 year old son who I hope to be able to convince not to dive head first into as much credit his bank throws at him.

[hagbard_celine]

I wonder if the bank staff gets a little perk if they manage to sell an overdraft extension, wouldn't be surprised. For the youngsters, thats probably where it starts, the casual question from the cashier - 'would you like an overdraft with that sir?' It gets the customer thinking about other credit options.


I imagine that the bank staff most favoured by management would be the ones who get the customers to borrow the most!;):D

I remember when I took out a business loan a few years ago I was treated like royalty! They even made me a cup of tea!:eek::) I told them how much I needed to launch my business and they immediately offered to double it!

[1694]

If more money isn't borrowed where will it come from to repay the interest on that which is already borrowed....it can't and we get the deflation that is slamming house and stock prices.

[hagbard_celine]

I would have thought they would have to tell you what was on the chip. can you not find out under freedom of information? cant see why you cannot get access to your own bank details.

Me neither. I should persevere there.:cool:

I'm especially concerned if the card chip has RFID capabilties because I know in Singapore they're running trials on a card that uses an encrypted RFID signal that allows you to automatically pay for items just by walking out of the shop door! So if you plan on shoplifting, make sure you leave the card at home!:D

Singapore seems to have been chosen for the testing grounds for a cashless society.

[size_of_light]

Upselling.

I used to work in a bank and it's been commonplace in Australia for years.

[mushroombot]

Me neither. I should persevere there.:cool:

I'm especially concerned if the card chip has RFID capabilties because I know in Singapore they're running trials on a card that uses an encrypted RFID signal that allows you to automatically pay for items just by walking out of the shop door! So if you plan on shoplifting, make sure you leave the card at home!:D

Singapore seems to have been chosen for the testing grounds for a cashless society.

Yes from this article, its western companies that are largely responsible for the technology. Prepare for the roleout:eek:

http://www.naomiklein.org/articles/2008/05/chinas-all-seeing-eye

[hagbard_celine]

They sure do in some dept and banks.
Every time they sell a loan they get commission on the sale.
I once asked a certain bank for a card I could use online, a visa debit card. They proceeded to strongly assure me that the most secure and better solution was a credit card. Which I finally took after much persuasion from a sweet middle aged lady with the sales skills of a buzz saw going through butter (She was like my mum and I couldn't disappoint her) but I expressly told her no more than 1k limit because I have never had money, and if some falls in my lap I have some in built need to get rid of it as fast as I can before it melts or exploded or something.
It arrived at me home and as I knew I would, being that I have been poor most of this life, I got to spending it on all the things I always thought were cool. Enjoying what others have been doing for years, shopping for stuff you don't need but that is nice to have.
The 1k went far, I had lots of things, I had 2 pairs of shoes, not just one. I had a new stereo from Argos, I bought my sister and my mum some stuff. It actually went 3x further than I could believe.
Bastages had given me a 3k limit instead of the 1k I had asked for.
So next time I was in the bank I went to see the woman, she look confused and said alright well how about if you take a loan out your credit is good, its less interest than the credit card and you can pay off your credit card today.
I decided it was better to pay 8% than 18% so I took the loan.
She advised me to take 4k as once I had paid off the credit card I could put the card in a drawer and forget about it until I had an emergency, but I would have some security if I had that extra 1k in my bank.
I swithered a bit, 4k! I had just wanted to pay for my Everquest subscription online and now I had spent 3k on crap I didn't need just because I had never had the ability to do it. Now she wants me to owe 4k.
Looking at your earnings you could have 4k today and easily afford to pay it back over x amount of months. Its only xyz per week.
I finally gave in and agreed, I had been at the desk for 40 minutes and people were getting really pissy waiting to see her. I felt awkward sitting in the main area of a bank with people watching.
The forms were printed and signed in a matter of seconds.
I worked and paid faithfully for 11 months, the money coming straight out of my account where my wages were paid but when my sister had a breakdown, I dropped everything, quit work and flew out to be with her as she had no one and was in a foreign country. I stayed with her for a year, getting her back on her feet. Then once I returned to the UK to find a job, I called into a local bank knowing that I would be refused an account as I had defaulted on the loan repayments but they did the credit check and gave me an account there and then, with a visa debit card.
That was 7 years ago, I have not used a credit card since nor will again.

That's probably a good idea for us all.:)

And they're not secure at all. I was sent a credit card as part of a new bank account I opened called Black Horse Select. When the card didn't arrive I wasn't bothered because I never wanted it anyway and would not have used it. Then a bill arived for £400! I phoned the bank and they put me straight onto the fraud officer, then I had to talk to the police.:eek: Apprently someone pretending to be me had gone on a spree in Reading doing a grand tour of the town's sport shops! The card must have been nicked out of the postman's bag. This was post Chip + PIN, so my impersonator obviously cracked the PIN. A friend of mine who knows a lot about computers told me that the PIN is stored on the card itself under a mere 24 level encryption, not just the bank secure server!:eek: What's the effin' point of having a PIN then?... Oh, yes, something must be done: chips implanted in the body!;)

The bank sent a replacement card and the moment it arrived I cut it up and threw it away!:cool:

[hagbard_celine]

If more money isn't borrowed where will it come from to repay the interest on that which is already borrowed....it can't and we get the deflation that is slamming house and stock prices.

That's why the current economic system is so pathological.

[mushroombot]

Im surprised the pin is actually stored on the card. You would think that a better means of verifying it would be once it connects to the banks server. You enter it, the machine encrypts it and sends it to the bank which gives the all clear for the transaction.

Anything with RFID on can be protected with a shielded wallet from what I understand - not sure how well they work.

[hagbard_celine]

I hear that in the UK interest rates are being cut (Ustane):rolleyes:

Cutting interest rates will hit savers and those few of us who are not in debt. It will therfore act as an incentive for anyone whose bank account is in the black to get into the red. "Mopping up" the stragglers who have yet to get into the debt prison, like they're trying to do with me:eek:.

[guuna]

I hear that in the UK interest rates are being cut (Ustane):rolleyes:

Cutting interest rates will hit savers and those few of us who are not in debt. It will therfore act as an incentive for anyone whose bank account is in the black to get into the red. "Mopping up" the stragglers who have yet to get into the debt prison, like they're trying to do with me:eek:.

I understand that they have alreay cut the base lending rate by 4%, in the near future it may well be taken to 0%, thus no incentive to save anymore, just toil away and owe them your soul. All this in preparation for the introduction of microchipped populace and a cashless society.

Yes, I do think that this is aimed at nailing the 'savers', pretty soon just about everyone in the UK will owe their souls to the banks, what with all the mortgage holders that will soon be slipping into negative equity.

All this snuck in under the radar with everyone being so euphoric about rising house prices over the last 15 years or so.

[jp13]

Im surprised the pin is actually stored on the card. You would think that a better means of verifying it would be once it connects to the banks server. You enter it, the machine encrypts it and sends it to the bank which gives the all clear for the transaction.

Anything with RFID on can be protected with a shielded wallet from what I understand - not sure how well they work.
I am not 100% sure about this, but I know that many shoplifters in the past 5-10 years used to go into a shop with a bag lined with tinfoil (aluminium foil), so that anything they put in the bag was shielded from the scanners at the exit. I have never tried it, but know that if a person got caught with such a bag, they were classed as "going equipped" to commit a crime, a bit like someone with tools that could be used to burgle a house would be charged with "going equiped" if the tools could be used to gain unlawful entry to a house/flat.
The idea being I think to block the rays (?) from the security devices on clothes etc by the tinfoil.

[lewi]

They make you pay a fee for having the overdraft and the higher the draft the higher the fee.

One Big Con ;)

[hagbard_celine]

I understand that they have alreay cut the base lending rate by 4%, in the near future it may well be taken to 0%, thus no incentive to save anymore, just toil away and owe them your soul. All this in preparation for the introduction of microchipped populace and a cashless society.

Yes, I do think that this is aimed at nailing the 'savers', pretty soon just about everyone in the UK will owe their souls to the banks, what with all the mortgage holders that will soon be slipping into negative equity.

All this snuck in under the radar with everyone being so euphoric about rising house prices over the last 15 years or so.

Exactly.:) their motives become so obvious in those rare occasions in my life, like now, when the banks owe me money!:cool:I'm gonna cream 'em for every penny they've got. the problem is I don't see how the interest on my wages backpay could ever deprive them of the US$ quadrillion they're fiddling around with now.:o

[griswald]

Apparently chip,n,pin cards are easier to scan and copy than old cards. Youtube has vids of scanning taking place in the street , that are using extremely simple methods.

griswald

[hagbard_celine]

Apparently chip,n,pin cards are easier to scan and copy than old cards. Youtube has vids of scanning taking place in the street , that are using extremely simple methods.

griswald

The Chip+PIN system was marketed on the anti-fraud hobby-horse.:rolleyes: The first cloned Chip+PIN cards actually came out before the complete changeover!

[hagbard_celine]

Saw this in the headlines:

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article6078489.ece

They're trying to get anyone not in debt into debt and then harrass them about it. Why?:confused: