Alan Watt on reptilian thing

[king]

Alan Watt on Icke's reptilian thing, counter intelligence, mixing provable with unprovable theories



http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/Blurbs/Alan_Watt_Blurb_ParticlePropagandaFromNASA_May2520 07.mp3

forward to 46:00 minutes

your thoughts

[limelady]

Well I guess this is the mother of all dilemmas is it not?

Here we have Alan Watt saying that David Icke is counter-intelligence because he has spoken at length on his research into reptilians. Yet he cannot prove Icke is wrong can he?

However, if we take Watts view that Icke is counter-intelligence and talk of the reptilians is merely to put people off the entire conspiracy/truth movement, how do you account for the fact that there are now more than 5,500 people registered on this forum, and at any given moment there are more members of the public viewing this forum than members logged on? What makes these people different to the ones Watt says will be put off by Icke's talk of reptilians?

Although he was careful not to mention names (that would be tacky he said), it was more than obvious who he was referring to, so using the basis of his own hypothesis here, could we not assume that Watt himself is counter-intelligence in trying to put people off the work of David Icke or anybody else who mentions "reptilians" in their research? And if that were true, then why would he want to do this?

For the purpose of counter-intelligence perhaps?

See how we can go round in circles with this stuff?

IMO at the stage in the game where we find ourselves, its most important to be open to all information, while blindly accepting none of it as 'read'.

And what do they say about it not being over till the fat lady sings? :D

[montag]

What he does mention that I thought was interesting and I have also thought about this myself and that is the term 'Conspiracy Theorist/Theory'. How the public are programmed to immediately turn off whenever they hear the term and dismiss out of hand any information offered. It's a red flag to most people and should be dropped from our vocabulary if possible. The term I believe has it's roots in the Kennedy assassination and has been used ever since to label anybody that questions the consensus reality view.

With regard to the reptilian thing, I'm not sure where I stand there. There are IMO dark forces that are manipulating affairs that they do seek to control and imprison us. Are they reptilian? Not sure.. Some say Satan, some say Lucifer, Stuart Wilde calls them the ghouls, then theres the greys. I does need to be open for discussion to develop a better understanding and I think David has brought some interesting information to the table regarding this, does it harm the movement? Possibly, then again we are all on different levels of awakening, some of us may not yet be ready for the information that we as humans are not really the ones at the top of the food chain after all.

[thirdwave]

there are many things that could be behind his views....

Now this is just Watt's views..... its what he thinks... as he has not one speck of evidence that suggests that Icke is disinfo.... its just his views on him based on his own views on the reptilian thing.....

there for if the reptilian link is true and people have seen shape shifts... then Mr Watt would be proven to be talking tripe...

for a start I think its a huge mistake to directly accuse another researcher of being an agent as its like putting out a virus in the whole thing... Because of Mr Watt you now have many people that really don't know what to think.... Tsarion...Maxwell.... Icke.... and Watt him self now have many who do not know whether to trust them or not......

I have also found that Watt only really brings up the issues that many others bring up, but offers less spiritual knowledge, which is what has clearly been lacking and has allowed the arse holes the power in the first place...


So I think even if you do think someone else is disinfo then declaring it with out any proof is just plane stupid...... I have asked Tsarion his views on other people and he has said he will not comment on their work ....only his own...

and this is the way to do it... if Watt is so sure David Icke is false... then he should commit to providing info that counters David's... and let people make their own minds up who is wrong and right...

Watt has some interesting stuff.... but it does not convince me he is actually %100 genuine.... after all if you want to trick people who already are aware of so much info, then you have to keep them interested.... but when you here things like this it does tend to rase the question.... what are his views on Icke REALLY doing?

opening peoples minds?? ....enlightening people??

I don't think so....like I say... its like a Virus.

there is only 1 other person who has laid into Icke for his reptilian thing and that was Alax Jones... but you can see that AJ is quite ignorant to allot of the deeper stuff behind the NWO and is very blinded by his Religious restrictions... he is not a bad guy... or disinfo..... just blind to allot of what Icke goes into...

Watt? ... for someone who has looked so deeply into this stuff.... it does raze the question to why he is not a little more open minded to Ickes works.... and as he brushes Icke off he brushes off a good few other researchers who have become very credible....

my theory is I think either Watt is a good researcher who is a bit of a fool, of he is a disinfo agent him self and he certainly does not put any doubt in what my views have been on Icke and anyone else who is interested in the reptilian thing... and modern science.

This would be a good question to ask David on his next video cast.... perhaps he could answer Watt's claims on his website ....


*Edit* OR!! of course like many.... Mr Watt cant get his head around the reptile thing....

[thirdwave]

Also.... no one I know labels them self's as Conspiracy Theorists.... Dave Icke has actually highlighted that this is just another labelled used by the media.... as well as a few others I have heard brush off the word....

so who is he claiming labels them self this?

maybe its not Icke he is talking about...?

[mada88]

Lots of people have said that the intelligence that has been used to control the world is not human.

[11kushna11]

The concensus is that the 'Reptillians' live in a dimension higher than our own, right? So perhaps the 'Reptillian' form is merely a projection of etheric energy manifested within physical density in order to provoke certain reactions from humankind? If they do feed off of fear then I can't think of a better way to make me soil my undergarments than to appear as a 9 foot blood-drinking reptillian in front of me. We've been conditioned to fear things like snakes, lizards etc and most of us would have an adverse reaction to something so outlandish.

Whether they actually exist in reptillian form is entirely questionable. Frankly it surprises me that Icke doesn't emphasise the 'supernatural' element of the reptillian theory in further depth... I think that they do exist in some sense but he's twisted the possibility into a somewhat bizarre reality that almost invalidates every grain of truth in his work. If was to accept that the reptillian thing is a little more subjective that he's made out in the past then people would be more willing to consider the wider implications of what the 'reptillian' thing really means.

[thirdwave]

The concensus is that the 'Reptillians' live in a dimension higher than our own, right? So perhaps the 'Reptillian' form is merely a projection of etheric energy manifested within physical density in order to provoke certain reactions from humankind? If they do feed off of fear then I can't think of a better way to make me soil my undergarments than to appear as a 9 foot blood-drinking reptillian in front of me. We've been conditioned to fear things like snakes, lizards etc and most of us would have an adverse reaction to something so outlandish.

Whether they actually exist in reptillian form is entirely questionable. Frankly it surprises me that Icke doesn't emphasise the 'supernatural' element of the reptillian theory in further depth... I think that they do exist in some sense but he's twisted the possibility into a somewhat bizarre reality that almost invalidates every grain of truth in his work. If was to accept that the reptillian thing is a little more subjective that he's made out in the past then people would be more willing to consider the wider implications of what the 'reptillian' thing really means.



I used to think this my self although I recent times he has got more into that side which I agree is something he lacked and did not help in getting it across to people...

but infact when I met him and spoke to him we talked about it and because I understood the concept he came across as totally on the level and not crazy at all... and this was because I knew where he was coming from.... he did infact say...

"you know when you see a poor video clip and the quality is poor and it distorts the face for a few seconds and so on?".... he said... "THAT'S what shape shifting is like..... the code to the hard drive getting scrambled for a second...."

and then I spoke to him about seeing stuff like that in acid... so on.....

infact he does actually go into the more 'supernatural' element in his next video cast.... which coincidently he had my question picked out from the forum and goes into detail about it on the shoot shortly after we had brought it up...

to be honest it might be something he has learnt more about it over time, as he does enthisis he is leanring more stuff all the time...... so on... the next video cast should be a good watch...

[baron von lotsov]

I have also found that Watt only really brings up the issues that many others bring up...

Yeh, funny you should say that because even though I didn't ask for it two people were like determined to send me a couple of his books. I started reading one and to be honest it was one of the most useless books I have read. Admittedly I'm not really into symbolism but If you ask yourself how useful it was I'd have to say 0%.

Another thing is about some of his claims, they are quite unique and unsubstantiated anywhere else, such as he says there are many more grades than the standard 33 in the Scottish Rite and I have never seen anything else that says this. How does he know and another thing is he says Icke is a freemason. I know Icke got caught up with some agents once or twice that got him into the New age mind control shit but that's about it. I see Icke has stepped back from this a bit and does actually admit the New Age is a system thing so OK every one makes a mistake or two but I don't like groundless accusations and Allan Watt seems to excel in them.

[earthseed]

Alan does not care to educate himself on this subject. David isn't making this up he has interviewed people with experiences with them. The native people of this planet know about these race of beings. Go listen to interviews with Red Elk or Credo Mutwa. The only thing Alan is really known for is bashing other authors that's it. He does not say anything that has not already been said. I'm sorry but why don't we ever ask who Alan Watt is working for? By saying this kind of stuff about everyone else will hide your own shillness. I am not impressed with this man and I'm shocked that people think he is the cat's meow. He makes you feel safe by keeping everyone on a 1st grade level that is stupid!

[synergy777]

i think we arguing over semantics. biblical fallen, the fallen angels, there are descriptions eg scales like breastplates that fully line up with ickes reptillians.the fall of the 1/3,0.33, 33% = 33 degrees?

angels that with lucifer/satan rebelled against the creator and archangel michael. so to me the various cultures around the world, that used serpent worship, from south america, to africa, asia to europe. all used zigguaruts/pyramids, snakes/reptiles. look at sumer aswell. and even in nordic tales beowulf etc, st george and dragon. mothmen, dragons, winged serpents, fallen, reptiles, the same thing.

interdimenional i think aswell as extraterristal. people laugh at the sci fi connotations, but they are ignorant. its in the bible, its in stone, temples, texts all around the world, thats quite a bit of evidence, lol. i think after realising the corruption of religion by the elite, people move away from it. ask yourself, WHY the elite corrupted religion, for two reasons.

one: the uncorrupted religion, was truth, krishna, buddha, moses, yashuah, mohammed and told us of all this. they called these reptiles fallen/demons/djinn. the truth they spoke empowered you, made you realise your full potential, third eye/matrix, whatever way you want to look at it. the truth told us that man, woman were equal. man/women combined, two souls, yin/yang fuflliment/harmony etc. that no matter what colour, caste/class we were all the same. none of this inbred purity crap eg bluebloods, nazi eugenics, aryan master race.


all the barriers that you think hold you down, back, are man made. ask yourself this, truthfully,

do you know more than the creator?
does any man/woman know more than the creator?

the simple answer is no on both accounts. so if the creator gives all of us souls, then if he/she doesn't discriminate then why exalt yourself as gods (all humans) and invent buillshit laws/doctrines. humanity as a whole is imprisoned by its weak but arrogant ego, which the elite manipulate.

see the creator made us all equal, man thinks he is better than the creator, but man knows fuck all really, can we master atoms, wave/particle duality, we thought the world was flat not so long ago. after utilising industrial production, making ourselves little objects, etc, we think thats it, we know everything, jokers. how long have had we had decent computers, dvds. we have only just got digital/optical technology, videos were magnetic.

2 heres the trick, by corrupting spritual truth/religion, they get the energy, and control/power. by fusing, corrupting the truth from these teachers, they have kept all of us in mental, spiritual slavery. slave species, really, what master hides from its slave? control by covert means, is more like it. we have all got souls, all the same potential. we all can and will break free. see here trick, if it wasn't the truth, why corrupt it?, they would have no need would they! why go through all that fuss, why hide, why wait for certain times, dates, an all powerful being would just be boss from the start.


to be honest this why i laugh, deep down we are intellectual well, kids, or animals is wrong. kids don't discriminate, neither do animals. what we are is ego creators, we strengthen our ego through the amassing of wealth, power, indoctrination and think we are in control, power, masters of the destiny/world. then when shit goes wrong, a prs, natural disaster, then we act all humble and pray for deliverance, lol like judas, when the 30 pieces runs out, then what? fairweather friends, cunning/cowardly children of the creator.

see its like the poa/secret thread, law of attraction, be honest how many people if they had ability, would attract a person, wealth etc. how many would say no to money/power/fame and use it to help the oppressed, without the want of fame, public fake love, etc. see how many false prophets in every religion, heck even starting their own religions for money, power, sex. its bullshit. prophets of profits, thieves in the temple, synagogue of satan, charlatans with pious hypocracy (thanks mark twain).

man, when the creator, and the rest do their thing. i hope they burn every fucking satanic piece of shit to the ground, get every fake motherfucker,to go round and make up for their sins, then see how good they really are. see i have been blessed with great life, seen everything, all levels of life, from a great viewpoint. so rather than being elitest/uppity, i see how much i have lived, but ultimately i know how little it actually is, how very little. education/experience, expanding your horizions. well you only see what your mind knows, so if you don't know, imagine, have no awareness/knowledge, then you won't see. socrates said, "the more i know, the more i realise how very little i know". now he, was quite a clever geezer, lol

love, loyalty, liberty.the creator has his familia also, capish, lol

1love, peace

http://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/demons.htm

As the Scripture above shows, the demons who inhabited this man were terrified of being banished by Yeshua into the Abyss. This is the same place where the fallen angels were chained. Apparently, those fallen angels and demons who get too far out of line here on earth are restrained in the Abyss until the day of judgment.

In the end-time prophecy recorded by John in the book of Revelation, the Abyss plays a large part in the events leading up to the return of the Messiah. During the period of the "seven trumpets," when God's wrath is poured out on an unrepentant mankind, the Abyss is opened at the sounding of the fifth trumpet:

REVELATION 9:1 The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. 2 When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. 3 And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. 4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 They were not given power to kill them, but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes a man. 6 During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them. 7 The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they wore something like crowns of gold, and their faces resembled human faces. 8 Their hair was like women's hair, and their teeth were like lions' teeth. 9 They had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle. 10 They had tails and stings like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to torment people for five months. (NIV)

The unlocking of the Abyss releases a horde of fallen angels and depraved demons upon mankind. God uses them as an instrument of His wrath for five months; they are allowed to torment those on the earth who don't have God's seal on their foreheads (Rev. 7:2-8).


The unlocking of the Abyss releases a horde of fallen angels and depraved demons upon mankind. God uses them as an instrument of His wrath for five months; they are allowed to torment those on the earth who don't have God's seal on their foreheads (Rev. 7:2-8).

In his commentary on Revelation 9:1, 3, Daniel H. Stern writes:

1 The star is not Satan (despite Isaiah 14:12, Lk 10:17), but an angel, who still has the key at 20:1. The Abyss is not Sh'ol (as at Ro 10:7), but a place where demonic beings are imprisoned (vv. 2-11, 11:7, 17:8, 20:2-3). In the Apocrypha, God is called, "You who close and seal the Abyss with your fearful and glorious name" (Prayer of Manasseh 3). . . .
3 Demonic monsters are released which fly like locusts (Exodus 10:12-20; Joel 1:4, 2:4-14) and sting like scorpions (Ezekiel 2:6, Lk 11:12). (pp. 815, 816, Jewish New Testament Commentary)

[synergy777]

http://www.jamesaxler.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1319

The Reptilians:
Humanity's Historical Link to the Serpent Race"
c FATE Magazine, June 1996.


by Joe Lewels, Ph.D.

Did humans evolve from reptiles?

As long as humanity has kept records of its existence, legends of a
serpent race have persisted. These myths tell of a mysterious race
of superhuman reptilian beings who descended from the heavens to
participate in creating humankind and to teach the sciences, impart
forbidden knowledge, impose social order, breed with us, and watch over
our development.

The serpentlike beings were not alone, but were part of a retinue of super
beings thought to be gods by the ancients. Yet, in cultures as widespread
and diverse as those of Sumeria, Babylonia, India, China, Japan, Mexico,
and Central America, reptilian gods have been feared and worshipped. To
this day the dragon or serpent signifies divine heritage and royalty in
many Asian countries, while in the West, the serpent represents wisdom and
knowledge. The symbol of two serpents coiled around a staff (originally
signifying the tree of knowledge of ancient myth), known as the caduceus,
is today used by the American Medical Association as its logo.

Interestingly, stories of reptilian beings who exercise mind control over
human captives while performing medical procedures on them have been
emerging from the research of some of the best known UFO investigators,
such as Budd Hopkins, John Carpenter, Linda Moulton Howe, Yvonne Smith,
and others. These stories, told by average, mentally competent Americans,
have emerged independently of one another in different parts of the
country, but have not yet received much public attention. They tell of
human encounters with creatures that have distinctly reptilian features:
webbed, clawlike hands, large golden eyes with vertically slit pupils, and
scaly, greenish-brown skin. Such stories have circulated around the UFO
research community for years, but few experts have had any idea of how to
interpret the tales.

So unbelievable and so frightful are they that in the past, many
researchers merely filed them away in their minds for future reference
rather than risk looking foolish or being ridiculed. Little by little, at
UFO conferences around the country, abductees and researchers learned of
each other's similar experiences with reptilian creatures, and gradually
the stories become public.

Today, researchers agree that there is a variety of entities involved in
the alien abduction scenario, including the familiar greys; tall, human-
looking blondes; the reptilians; and hybrids (half-human and half-alien).
In addition, there seem to be variations of each of these that imply
crossbreeding and considerable diversity. It is not clearly understood
how each type interacts with the others, although they are often reported
seen together.

MUFON's FINDINGS
John Carpenter has kept close track of the abduction phenomenon. He is the
director of abduction research for the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON), one of
the largest and most credible organizations dedicated to the scientific
study of UFOs and abductions. Carpenter holds a master's degree in social
work and is a highly qualified hypnotherapist who works as a psychiatric
social worker in Springfield, Missouri. Since the late 1980s, he has worked
with more than 100 abductees and compiled information on hundreds of others.
In addition, he is in contact with other researchers in the field. He has
been involved in 10 cases where experiencers have described reptilian
entities and he is aware of researchers in other parts of the country with
similar cases. Abductees often have distinct clawlike cuts and bruises on
their bodies after their apparent abductions.

Carpenter summarized what he knows of these beings in his regular column,
"Abduction Notes," MUFON UFO Journal, April 1993:"Typically, these
reptilian creatures are reported to be about six to seven feet tall,
upright, with lizardlike scales, greenish to brownish in color with
clawlike, four-fingered webbed hands....Their faces are said to be a cross
between a human and a snake, with a central ridge coming down from the top
of the head to the snout. Adding to their serpentlike appearance are their
eyes which have vertical slits in their pupils and golden irises." Perhaps
the most frightening and most controversial part of these stories are
claims that the creatures occasionally are reported to have sex with
abductees.

Supporting Carpenter's findings is a MUFON study that had financial
assistance from the Fund for UFO Research. This massive study, known as the
"Abduction Transcription Project," is an attempt to collect and correlate
information on hundreds of abduction cases through the use of a
sophisticated computer database. In July 1995 at the organization's
symposium in Seattle, Washington, Dan Wright summed up the findings based on
142 separate cases and 560 transcripts. Wright said, "A fair reading of
those sessions indicates strongly that multiple groups of entities have been
routinely intruding into the lives of Americans--children as well as adults
....When a so-called reptilian is repeatedly described as having the same
scaly skin tone, claws for fingers, and an extreme interest in sexuality,
one must pay attention."

The study's preliminary results indicate that reptilian types have been
reported in a relatively small percentage (less than 20 per cent) of the
cases being studied.

NOT OF THIS GALAXY
Whether the beings reported by abductees are Greys, blondes, reptilians, or
any other variety, the scenario of the abduction phenomenon is fairly
consistent among the thousands of cases studied thus far. In addition to
having numerous medical procedures performed on them, abductees also report
receiving information in the form of symbols or images, the meaning of which
is often unclear, but much of it has to do with future Earth disasters. The
beings sometimes refer to themselves as the "Watchers," "custodians," or
"guardians of mankind" and all living things on Earth, and they say they are
preparing for the time in the near future when global changes will
dramatically affect life on our planet. In some cases they have indicated
that they come from various parts of the universe, including other galaxies,
or from "a very distant place."

In what is certainly the most disturbing aspect of the procedures reported,
both men and women abductees, but most often women, report being shown rooms
filled with hundreds of glass tubes where hybrid fetuses are being grown,
much like a hydroponic garden. In many cases, experiencers are shown
nurseries of hybrid infants or rooms full of hybrid children of varying
ages. Often the beings bring an infant or a child to the women to be held
and loved, and they are told that it is their child.

These events were reported by alien abductee Betty Andreasson Luca, whose
case has been the subject of investigation for more than 20 years, and who
has been the subject of four books by UFO investigator Ray Fowler. In his
book *The Watchers*, Fowler reports on a hypnosis session in which Betty
remembered being told by the beings who had taken her aboard their ship that
"Man will become sterile" because of the polluted environment. Further, she
is told that there are "good and bad Watchers," which Betty refers to as
"angels." She is warned that there are some who are "against man, that will
hurt man and destroy man."

DEAD SEA SCROLLS EVIDENCE
References to Watchers, good and bad angels, and hybrid babies can be found
in many ancient texts including the Old Testament, which borrowed much from
older documents, including the books of Enoch. The prophet Enoch is
mentioned in Genesis as the son of Cain and the father of Methuselah, and he
is believed to be one of the antediluvian (pre-flood) patriarchs who, along
with Noah, "walked with God" (Genesis 5:24; 6:9). Books written by anonymous
writers but credited to Enoch were given great credence by early Jewish
scholars and thus influenced the writers of the Old Testament. Parts of the
books of Enoch written in Aramaic were found among the scraps of parchment
in the caves of Qumran in 1947, having been placed there nearly 2,000 years
ago by a Jewish sect known as the Essenes. These, of course, are the Dead
Sea Scrolls. Another version exists in Ethiopian.

According to the Aramaic texts, "Enoch was the first among the children of
men born of the Earth who had learned writing, science, and wisdom" from the
angels. In one writing, the *Book of the Watchers*, we learn that the
Watchers are angels and that there are good and bad Watchers. We are told
that the Watchers are angels of the Lord, "come down to Earth to instruct
the children of men and to bring about justice and equity on Earth." But in
the case of the wicked or bad angels, the science they teach turns to wicked
ends because of their sins.

Their sin is that they permit their sexual appetite to dominate them: "When
the evil Watchers descended and beheld the daughters of man, they began to
corrupt themselves with them. When the sons of God saw the daughters of
man, they could not restrain their inclination."

These Watchers fall from grace with God when Enoch travels to heaven in
physical form to testify against them. He tells God that the Watchers "had
begun to go unto the daughters of men, so that they became impure." As
punishment for the sins of the evil Watchers against humankind, God destroys
humanity, including the hybrid race of beings who are the offspring of
humans and Watchers, by causing a great flood. The evil Watchers are put
into a fiery pit and imprisoned by the four chiefs of the good Watchers, the
archangels Michael, Sariel, Rafael, and Gabriel.

Another interesting reference to the Watchers was found in the same cave as
the books of Enoch, but was not known until 1992, when two Biblical
scholars, Robert Eisenman and Michael Wise, published their book *The Dead
Sea Scrolls Uncovered.*

Among the 50 documents released for the first time in this book is a
reference to the Watchers that is unique, for it provides one of the few
physical descriptions of them. The text, called "The Testament of Amram,"
describes the experience of a person named Amram in which "an angel and a
demon" were wrestling over his soul: "[I saw Watchers] in my vision, the
dream-vision. Two [men] were fighting over me. I asked them, 'who are you,
that you are thus empowered over me?" They answered me, 'We [have been
em]powered and rule over all mankind.' They said to me, 'Which of us do
yo[u] choose to rule [you]?' I raised my eyes and looked. [One] of them
was terrifying in his appearance, [like a s]erpent, [his] cl[oak] many
colored yet very dark...[And I looked again], and ... in his appearance,
his visage like a viper ... [I replied to him,] 'This [watcher,] who is
he?' He answered me, 'This Wa[tcher,] ... [and his three names are Belial
and Prince of Darkness] and King of Evil.'"

What makes this testament even more intriguing is the fact that this
little-known character named Amram is quite an important personage. Amram,
it turns out, was the father of one of the most famous contactees in
history, the man who delivered the Jews from slavery in Egypt. This person
is, of course, none other than Moses!

EXTRATERRESTRIAL REPTILE GODS
If that were the only reference to reptilian beings in ancient texts it
could easily be dismissed, but the stories of such creatures date back to
the earliest human writings, those of Sumer (meaning "land of the
guardians"), Babylon (meaning "gate of the gods"), and other civilizations
of ancient Mesopotamia. Among the thousands of clay tablets that have been
recovered and translated dating from the earliest recorded history, are
documents that record events dating back 240,000 years. One of these, the
"Sumerian King" list, tells the story of the god, An, chief god of an
extraterrestrial race called the Annunaki, and his sons, Enki and Enlil. It
is clear from the texts and the illustrations left by the Sumerians that at
least some of these "gods," including Enki (also known as EA), were
reptilian in appearance. It is Enki who gave the first people the fruit of
the tree of knowledge and who later saved humanity by warning a Noahlike
figure of the great flood.

These stories are so similar to the Old Testament that one can only conclude
that the Old Testament authors borrowed heavily from them. In the Sumerian
tale, Enki is given the task of creating a worker force to help the Annunaki
till the soil and mine the ore for which they came to earth. This he does
through considerable trial and error, in the process creating strange
creatures. The legend implies that Enki possessed a highly advanced
technology that included the capability of genetically altering the
indigenous species. Using a mysterious process to create a claylike
substance, he was able to "bind upon it the image of the gods," indicating
that Enki used Annunaki genes to create a hybrid species. It also implies
that some of the early humans may have had a reptilian appearance.

This statue [not shown] of a biologically credible creature, created by Dr.
Dale Russell of the Canadian National Museum of Natural Sciences, shows what
evolution might have produced if dinosaurs had survived. Its appearance is
similar to the beings reported by abductees. This photo [not shown] was
taken from the book *The Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence*, by
Edward Ashpole, Sterling Publishing Co., Inc.

OUR REPTILIAN ANCESTORS
As ridiculous and repugnant as this sounds, it is commonly accepted by
modern science that humankind's early ancestors may have been reptiles.
According to the Darwinian explanation of the origins of the human species,
mammals evolved from reptiles and gained dominion over the Earth only after
a great disaster of debatable nature destroyed the dinosaurs. It is
theorized that only then were mammals able to proliferate and ultimately
evolve into intelligent beings. It is rather remarkable that the ancient
Sumerian story of creation should parallel so closely the Darwinian view. In
both cases humans are said to be related to a superior reptilian race and,
in both cases, a great cataclysm eradicates the earlier species. (In the
Bible, it was the hybrid race of giants known as the Nephilim that God
wished to destroy.) Finally, in both stories, the survivors of the disaster
start anew, eventually evolving into humans.

In his book *The Dragons of Eden*, the esteemed astronomer Dr. Carl Sagan
speculates on the reptilian origins of humans and on the mysterious leap in
brain evolution that can be found in the fossil record. He notes that if
people had evolved naturally from reptiles, as Darwinists claim, it should
have taken 200 million years for mammals to first evolve, and then another
five to 10 million years for humans to evolve. But he notes with extreme
puzzlement that the fossil record simply does not bear out this conclusion.
In fact, the evolvement of mammals, and particularly humans, was
accomplished very quickly, "in a major burst of brain evolution." The
evidence for this is clear in the fact that stone tools do not appear
gradually, but rather "they appear in enormous abundance all at once." In
frustration Sagan concludes that "there is no way to explain this unless
*Australopithecines* had educational institutions," to teach toolmaking. Of
course there is another explanation, but not one any mainstream scientist
would dare consider. That alternative is to admit that God or godlike beings
had a hand in accelerating the evolutionary process.

THE REPTILE PART OF THE BRAIN
Sagan goes on to puzzle over the similarities between the reptilian brain
and the human brain. He points out that at the core of the human brain lies
a vestige of our reptilian past. This part of the brain, known as the
R-complex (reptilian complex), is said to be the part of the brain that
performs the dinosaur functions--aggressive behavior, territoriality,
ritual, and establishment of social hierarchies. The middle layer is called
the limbic system, and is thought to generate love, hate, compassion, and
sentimentality--characteristics believed to be strictly mammalian. The
largest part of the human brain, the neocortex or outer layer, is believed
to be the home of reasoning and deliberation and "the place where we know
the difference between good and evil."

Once again, science seems to agree with the ancient creation myths, for it
was the knowledge of good and evil (given to them by a serpent) that caused
first woman and man to fall from grace with the creator. If the creator was
reptilian, then it could be that by becoming mammalian--and developing a
neocortex--humanity became less reptilian, thus falling from grace.

Other ancient texts bear out this disturbing conclusion. In 1945, in a small
town in Egypt, a clay jar was found bearing ancient scrolls similar to the
Dead Sea Scrolls. These are known as the Nag Hammadi texts, named after the
town where they were found. They tell the story of human creation this way:
The bodies of Adam and Eve were overlayed with a horny skin that was bright
as daylight, like a luminescent garment. Thus, it seems, they didn't need
clothing. Further, these texts tell a far different story about the tree of
knowledge than that told in Genesis:"She took some of its fruit and ate, and
she gave to her husband also...then their minds opened. For when they ate,
the light of knowledge shone for them. When they saw their makers, they
loathed them since they were beastly forms. They understood very much."

In another ancient Jewish document, known as the Haggadah, it is made clear
that the serpent was not merely a snake:"Among the animals, the serpent was
notable. Of all of them, he had the most excellent qualities, in some of
which he resembled man. Like man, he stood upright on two feet, and in
height he was equal to the camel....His superior mental gifts caused him to
become an infidel. It likewise explains his envy of man, especially his
conjugal visits....In punishment for tempting Eve, God said 'I created you
to be king over all the animals...but you were not satisfied....I created
you of upright posture...therefore you shall go upon your belly.'"

These tantalizing clues from the dim past seem to give at least some support
for the idea that today's UFO occupants, reptilian or otherwise, are exactly
who they say they are--the ancient guardians of humankind. If that is so,
then the theory that UFOs are piloted by aliens from other planets must be
carefully re-evaluated. But whatever the answer is, it is clear that UFO
researchers have their hands full in dealing with this enduring and
perplexing mystery.


sagan, sitchin do have elite paymasters. however they do bring up some valid points.

1:our brains are reptillian, we did start off a long time ago. now if evolution is right, if so, then they are lying about the age of the world (sagan timeline), and we have been here for ages.

2:they via intervention, cloning increased the rate of development of our species (persia, annunaki, post deluge). now also to this we can add in the aquatic ape theory. also if add in lemuria, how does this affect the official/nwo view. also with credo murwa, dogon tribe, where were the reptiles then sirius, lol.

now are they passing this stuff on us, as we have no regard, respect for history. also as the bible was a fairly new book, how much is truth, how much propaganda. a people ignorant of their past, have no value of their life/heritage, and hence will accept anything given to them by state/elite, rather orwellian.

now with credo, lemuria, vedic, annunaki and the history of the bible, we have to ask ourselves some serious questions. with the scientific data factored in aswell, we need to seperate truth from nwo sponsored eg grants, data. the data we have in all areas of study, has question marks over its integrity/independance. i mean some people help the nwo, and have more reptillian based than others, this is by their eyes, vibes, actions. the saga continues, lol

[synergy777]

http://cohra.anunnaki.cc/Article7.html

fantastic link, a brief sypnosis of the sitchin/sagan/annunaki. the thing with this is that it means recognising asiatics as the original aryans, and you being from us. or you believing this, and being from mars/annunaki hybrids, which the tells us that you are hybrids,lol. its fairytale stuff, to think that whites hate us coloureds that much you would be from mars than from asia/africa. truly we are apes, and the elites great manipulators, divide and rule, whoever rules, loves the divide.

[eternal_spirit]

Watt asks the question is Icke being funded, heavily promoted and where does the money come from???

[king]

good feedback everyone
and some very interesting points, many of whom i share with you.

i also view that Alan's clams are unsubstantiated; just because someone talks about reptiles and NA crap -- it does not mean that he is an NWO agent.

If you want my opinion, I think that Icke was very naive at first, gullible if you will.
They probably were planning to use him to push NA masonic crap -- all that is coming out of woodwork now.
So, they arranged for Icke to come to the U.S. and see Jordan Maxwell, 'grand daddy' of conspiracy researchers.
Prior to that Icke was sent to India to become indoctrinated into Hinduism, that is basis of New Age Religion.
So, Icke came to the U.S. and Maxwell took him under his wing, and of course promoted Icke, "out of his pocket".
Maxwell whined that he spent 200K on promoting Icke (this is a first clue -- where did he get that kind of money?) but that Icke backstabbed him, did not want to even see him anymore.
(this is a second clue)

Why did Icke disassociated him self with Jordan Maxwell, and why Icke was avoiding Maxwell like plague?

Why did Maxwell say that Fritz Sprinmeier and many others stole work from him, then Springmeier ended up in jail, yet Maxwell is still free after 45 years of "exposing" illuminati?!

also, if you look into Maxwell's research you will not only see that he has many powerful Illuminati friends, but that he also was pushing alien agenda (many times), and he was the one who programmed Icke that "Jesus never existed".

This leads us now to Tsarion.
Tsarion was heavily into Hinduism, Blavatsky and Crawley.
I need not mention tarrot, gnosticism and "divination arts"
(faak, me i thought that we did not need any of that crap because all we need is already within each of us)

Now, Tsarion is also heavily promoted as well, and he changes his story the way wind is blowing. and, it is always
new and even more fascinating crap than last time.
and when his latest theory is busted -- he changes it to yet another of many of 'fascinating' subjects that are up his tarot sleeve.

:D

Tsarion (ex Rosicrucian) is your perfect NWO disifo agent with perfect combination of NA crap and that is why Maxwell-Tsarion relationship works so well.
Like father (mentor) like son...

But, i sense that Tsarion is having some doubts inside him.
Maybe he too will break out of Maxwell's claws.
He seems changed of lately.

Now, lets not forget Sitchin, who definitely is yet another disinfo, and some say a 33 degree Freemason.
There are scholars who actually have proven that Sitchin's translations are wrong, with mistakes that you and i would only make, not a "scholar" of caliber like Sitchin.

But, even though i know that Maxwell is not what he appears to be -- Maxwell did bring lots of good information to the table, but he packed it in lots of deception.
the information he gave on Federal Reserve was not a secret anymore (thanks to Ezra Pound and Eustice Mullins who were the first ones to do that) besides, this information is now obsolete, that is -- illuminati wants this information "exposed" so that public cries
that FRS is changed to something else.
To you ickeites -- this is typical P.R.S. scenario.
that is WHY some secrets are pushed even in MSM now
and of corse via "entertainment"

Those secrets have reached the end of their shelf life, and new patented secrets are ready to replace the old ones.
kind of like once secret formula of Prozac is being "exposed" to generic drug makers, yet another drug with secret ingredients is destined to replace Prozac.

simple, really



But, do i think that Maxwell is evil?
No. I think that he is just sold out, like millions of others, for a few pennies, or fame or.... whatever.

I think that separating the deception from the truth is the key and that we can learn from just about anything around us and that doing so we can become more enlightened and less judgmental!

Therefore, i will take any information that i know is true,
and i what i know is untrue -- i will use it as the tool to learn about everything that the tool can be used for.


in past year or two i have developed (or rediscovered?) my own intuition and i can tell you that at intuitive level you can pickup lots of things about a person or a subject matter, if you allow your intuition to guide you.

if we do not have that sense as developed -- we often fall into black and white mode, and this is arresting our development different levels.

unfortunately, 'black and white' is more often than not our modus operandi, that is -- we see someone as good or bad, working for 'them' or 'us' and many other forms of duality.

but, fact is, even "disinfo agents" can not only help you learn about deception and cunning but also about love, trust and goodness.

i have not listened to one conspiracy researcher that was
right about everything, so i came to the conclusion that this is yet another level of our development that we have to reach -- we have to understand that each man, no matter how "great" he is -- is still just a man.

i think that once your reach that level of understanding,
when you can accept Icke or Watt or Wilde for what they are -- you reached yet another level of understanding of who you really are.

as far as Baron's comment that Watts books were useless, zero information... guess what?
I feel exactly the same, almost as all of that information was disassociated, irrelevant and obsolete.
And no spiritual value in it. Basically his message is "we are fucked and we have been always fucked"
hmmmm... not very enlightening, is it?


I think that Alan is a great soul, very erudite man, but he is lacking balance in his life. He needs a good woman, because he is so into negative shit that he lives you
no hope, and how would you have any hope unless you
understand that you are a spiritual being and that if there is evil -- there must be good. And how can you live in middle of f-n nowhere without sharing your love with someone?

sometimes he is so negative that i wonder if he works for them. (but on intuitive level i know that is is an honest soul)



anyways. about reptilians; like synergy said -- reptilians may be just another metaphoric representation of same entity and his angels that is depicted in Christian religious texts.

me thinks that if we are dealing with spiritual realms -- those 'evil entities' can manifest as different things to different people based upon their beliefs, customs, religion etc.

so, reptilians, gods of underworld or Satan's angels may be the same thing metaphorically.

i am not sold out on reptilians as some tangible entities, but i am sold out that negative entities may be, and most likely ARE ruling people in positions of power, simply because people in power have some kind of symbiotic relationship with those entities and via those relationships we are ruled. That is why magik/occult/rituals are used to communicate with them entities.

anyway, another thing that comes to mind is that although bible was corrupted and perverted as many religions are -- there are some essential truths, but those are of esoteric nature, and deciphering those is the most interesting.
unfortunately, many (again) fall into black and white mode and either accept it literally all or dismiss all of it.

I can tell you now that i can see that we can learn from everything, from good and from evil, and nothing is the way it seams.

we need to get out of black and white mode of thinking.

anyways, thank you for listening my rant, and thank you for some very good comments.

[baron von lotsov]

I used to post on the other David Icke forum known as 'The Forum' and the amount of cretins promoting Tsarion was unbelievable. I fought that battle against nearly everyone, such was the power of the brainwashing he was employing. I'd say he was at the level of expert brainwasher (PhD level if you like) and the idiots fell for it hook line and sinker. To even mention that it might be dodgy created a barrage of abuse but one by one people started to have second opinions. It was a battle and a half but I think it finally did something, Tsarion lost it at one point and revealed his true nature. That went round the net and it would be reasonable to say it was a case of another stooge down and more to go. Maxwell got the heat and so did Sitchen until the point where their reputation was falling apart. No wonder Tsarion has changed, he was forced to.

[thirdwave]

Watt asks the question is Icke being funded, heavily promoted and where does the money come from???

is Icke being funded? ... buy the people who buy his books and pay for his website subscription... and who go and see his talks.... yes....

heavily promoted??
mmmmm I would say that is a bit of an egsaduration.... in the past he has had zilch... in recent times he has had SOME promotion... this is due to the internet allowing him to spread his works more and thus more exposure...more public interest...more pressure on the mainstream to take note...

where does his money come from?? ...same as above.... but its not as if he is rolling in cash.... he earns a living... but I don't think he has a Ferrari and a Rolex...

there was all this stuff bout him living in a huge house and so on....its all rubbish....

[king]

I used to post on the other David Icke forum known as 'The Forum' and the amount of cretins promoting Tsarion was unbelievable. I fought that battle against nearly everyone, such was the power of the brainwashing he was employing. I'd say he was at the level of expert brainwasher (PhD level if you like) and the idiots fell for it hook line and sinker. To even mention that it might be dodgy created a barrage of abuse but one by one people started to have second opinions. It was a battle and a half but I think it finally did something, Tsarion lost it at one point and revealed his true nature. That went round the net and it would be reasonable to say it was a case of another stooge down and more to go. Maxwell got the heat and so did Sitchen until the point where their reputation was falling apart. No wonder Tsarion has changed, he was forced to.

yeah, i remember that episode when he had lost it completely!

hopefully i have not contributed to that breakdown of his
:wink:


interesting you said that he was 'forced to change'
because he did change after he was exposed on "forum"


i think that people are underestimating Maxwell and his "conspiracy researcher" factory


Maxwell is very clever, but he is not as slick as Tsarion is, that is why many people are unable to pick that one up,
Tsarion is the master of slickness, and since he is coming from Maxwell's school and well trained with methods of NA brainwashing - am not surprised.


lest time I checked Tsarion was pushing Carl Gustav Jung
theories, that is that we are all basically psychos and that we need to "clean up". See, it is always us who need
to check our mental health, it does not matter if
that is MSM or AM ( "aternative media" )
it is always us who are sick according to bush cabal or Maxwell Cabal.


and, of course Tsarion is still using now standard, almost undetectable bashing of monotheistic religions, while promoting New Age crap. Because NA religion is the illuminati religion, they want to get rid of monotheistic religions that are based on tribe and family unit that is the basis of the tribe.

Lately, Tsarion is peddling the idea that Ireland was cradle of civilization.
he seems to have run out of (read exposed) other theories
like crowley and Blavatski worship and Mark 1,2,3,4 adamic beings, Atlanthian civilization and such.

It almost feels like if he is buying the time, and if you listen to his interviews you will see that he is often dragging a topic way too long and he seems to be controlling the flow of the information and topic in each show.
That is a dead giveaway.

bummer, now that he is exposed he would have to do some downsizing, with all of his 7 web sites or so.


:D

now, think about this.
thanks to a very few people who figured out Tsarion's agenda -- that sleazeball is exposed, so that hundreds and later thousands of people who would otherwise follow him have learned how deception works.

So, this right there tells you how powerful each of you people is!

and all that it took it was one person making a post, questioning Tsarion, and then few other people joined in and exposed the fucker for good!

people, that is what the real power is!
real power is not in some stupid cards or some magik shite as Tsarion professed!

[Ian2day]

For all you lurkers out there. Don't ever rely on another to tell you someone is disinfo. Work it out for yourself if people are genuine or not. I would even go so far as to say you should really question those that are pointing the finger at others. Everyone has to make their own mind up. Use your discernment, use your own judgement and not that of any pseudo intellectuals that claim to know better than you. Me, I'm just a bloke that has seen a Reptillian for real, so what would I know about anyones motives. Everyone and I suppose even I have an agenda. What we all have to work out, is if they are genuine or directed by other forces. Be wary of people creating 'strawmans' and using them to discredit all information that someone has to give.

[baron von lotsov]

yeah, i remember that episode when he had lost it completely!

hopefully i have not contributed to that breakdown of his
:wink:


interesting you said that he was 'forced to change'
because he did change after he was exposed on "forum"


i think that people are underestimating Maxwell and his "conspiracy researcher" factory


Maxwell is very clever, but he is not as slick as Tsarion is, that is why many people are unable to pick that one up,
Tsarion is the master of slickness, and since he is coming from Maxwell's school and well trained with methods of NA brainwashing - am not surprised.


lest time I checked Tsarion was pushing Carl Gustav Jung
theories, that is that we are all basically psychos and that we need to "clean up". See, it is always us who need
to check our mental health, it does not matter if
that is MSM or AM ( "aternative media" )
it is always us who are sick according to bush cabal or Maxwell Cabal.


and, of course Tsarion is still using now standard, almost undetectable bashing of monotheistic religions, while promoting New Age crap. Because NA religion is the illuminati religion, they want to get rid of monotheistic religions that are based on tribe and family unit that is the basis of the tribe.

Lately, Tsarion is peddling the idea that Ireland was cradle of civilization.
he seems to have run out of (read exposed) other theories
like crowley and Blavatski worship and Mark 1,2,3,4 adamic beings, Atlanthian civilization and such.

It almost feels like if he is buying the time, and if you listen to his interviews you will see that he is often dragging a topic way too long and he seems to be controlling the flow of the information and topic in each show.
That is a dead giveaway.

bummer, now that he is exposed he would have to do some downsizing, with all of his 7 web sites or so.


:D

now, think about this.
thanks to a very few people who figured out Tsarion's agenda -- that sleazeball is exposed, so that hundreds and later thousands of people who would otherwise follow him have learned how deception works.

So, this right there tells you how powerful each of you people is!

and all that it took it was one person making a post, questioning Tsarion, and then few other people joined in and exposed the fucker for good!

people, that is what the real power is!
real power is not in some stupid cards or some magik shite as Tsarion professed!



Funny that he should be into Jung. I went into a New Age bookshop once and asked for any books that were not on religion. I mean it was putting itself out as a normal bookshop so It was a straight forward request. Out of two floors of books I was pointed to half a shelf on psychology and Jung was a favourite. He was an occultist, that's why and a student of the fraud Freud. If nothing else these people are predictable.

And about your point with posts. Well I suppose I have knocked up about 15000 in the last few years, each one, call it a hundred views to be conservative. That's a lot of waking people up and I find that if you aim them at intelligent people on mainstream news forums the ideas can quite easily get picked up by national journalists too lazy to do their own research. I figure I have a few journalist fans out there, I keep seeing stuff in the papers. The trick is to keep consistently feeding out high quality info and solidly backed up with provable facts. Journalists must have these or they get strung up for Libel. Give them what they need and the government feel the pressure and they come back for more.

[king]

i think we arguing over semantics. biblical fallen, the fallen angels, there are descriptions eg scales like breastplates that fully line up with ickes reptillians.the fall of the 1/3,0.33, 33% = 33 degrees?

angels that with lucifer/satan rebelled against the creator and archangel michael. so to me the various cultures around the world, that used serpent worship, from south america, to africa, asia to europe. all used zigguaruts/pyramids, snakes/reptiles. look at sumer aswell. and even in nordic tales beowulf etc, st george and dragon. mothmen, dragons, winged serpents, fallen, reptiles, the same thing.

interdimenional i think aswell as extraterristal. people laugh at the sci fi connotations, but they are ignorant. its in the bible, its in stone, temples, texts all around the world, thats quite a bit of evidence, lol. i think after realising the corruption of religion by the elite, people move away from it. ask yourself, WHY the elite corrupted religion, for two reasons.

one: the uncorrupted religion, was truth, krishna, buddha, moses, yashuah, mohammed and told us of all this. they called these reptiles fallen/demons/djinn. the truth they spoke empowered you, made you realise your full potential, third eye/matrix, whatever way you want to look at it. the truth told us that man, woman were equal. man/women combined, two souls, yin/yang fuflliment/harmony etc. that no matter what colour, caste/class we were all the same. none of this inbred purity crap eg bluebloods, nazi eugenics, aryan master race.


all the barriers that you think hold you down, back, are man made. ask yourself this, truthfully,

do you know more than the creator?
does any man/woman know more than the creator?

the simple answer is no on both accounts. so if the creator gives all of us souls, then if he/she doesn't discriminate then why exalt yourself as gods (all humans) and invent buillshit laws/doctrines. humanity as a whole is imprisoned by its weak but arrogant ego, which the elite manipulate.

see the creator made us all equal, man thinks he is better than the creator, but man knows fuck all really, can we master atoms, wave/particle duality, we thought the world was flat not so long ago. after utilising industrial production, making ourselves little objects, etc, we think thats it, we know everything, jokers. how long have had we had decent computers, dvds. we have only just got digital/optical technology, videos were magnetic.

2 heres the trick, by corrupting spritual truth/religion, they get the energy, and control/power. by fusing, corrupting the truth from these teachers, they have kept all of us in mental, spiritual slavery. slave species, really, what master hides from its slave? control by covert means, is more like it. we have all got souls, all the same potential. we all can and will break free. see here trick, if it wasn't the truth, why corrupt it?, they would have no need would they! why go through all that fuss, why hide, why wait for certain times, dates, an all powerful being would just be boss from the start.


to be honest this why i laugh, deep down we are intellectual well, kids, or animals is wrong. kids don't discriminate, neither do animals. what we are is ego creators, we strengthen our ego through the amassing of wealth, power, indoctrination and think we are in control, power, masters of the destiny/world. then when shit goes wrong, a prs, natural disaster, then we act all humble and pray for deliverance, lol like judas, when the 30 pieces runs out, then what? fairweather friends, cunning/cowardly children of the creator.

see its like the poa/secret thread, law of attraction, be honest how many people if they had ability, would attract a person, wealth etc. how many would say no to money/power/fame and use it to help the oppressed, without the want of fame, public fake love, etc. see how many false prophets in every religion, heck even starting their own religions for money, power, sex. its bullshit. prophets of profits, thieves in the temple, synagogue of satan, charlatans with pious hypocracy (thanks mark twain).

man, when the creator, and the rest do their thing. i hope they burn every fucking satanic piece of shit to the ground, get every fake motherfucker,to go round and make up for their sins, then see how good they really are. see i have been blessed with great life, seen everything, all levels of life, from a great viewpoint. so rather than being elitest/uppity, i see how much i have lived, but ultimately i know how little it actually is, how very little. education/experience, expanding your horizions. well you only see what your mind knows, so if you don't know, imagine, have no awareness/knowledge, then you won't see. socrates said, "the more i know, the more i realise how very little i know". now he, was quite a clever geezer, lol

love, loyalty, liberty.the creator has his familia also, capish, lol

1love, peace

http://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/demons.htm

As the Scripture above shows, the demons who inhabited this man were terrified of being banished by Yeshua into the Abyss. This is the same place where the fallen angels were chained. Apparently, those fallen angels and demons who get too far out of line here on earth are restrained in the Abyss until the day of judgment.

In the end-time prophecy recorded by John in the book of Revelation, the Abyss plays a large part in the events leading up to the return of the Messiah. During the period of the "seven trumpets," when God's wrath is poured out on an unrepentant mankind, the Abyss is opened at the sounding of the fifth trumpet:

REVELATION 9:1 The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. 2 When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. 3 And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. 4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 They were not given power to kill them, but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes a man. 6 During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them. 7 The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they wore something like crowns of gold, and their faces resembled human faces. 8 Their hair was like women's hair, and their teeth were like lions' teeth. 9 They had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle. 10 They had tails and stings like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to torment people for five months. (NIV)

The unlocking of the Abyss releases a horde of fallen angels and depraved demons upon mankind. God uses them as an instrument of His wrath for five months; they are allowed to torment those on the earth who don't have God's seal on their foreheads (Rev. 7:2-8).


The unlocking of the Abyss releases a horde of fallen angels and depraved demons upon mankind. God uses them as an instrument of His wrath for five months; they are allowed to torment those on the earth who don't have God's seal on their foreheads (Rev. 7:2-8).

In his commentary on Revelation 9:1, 3, Daniel H. Stern writes:

1 The star is not Satan (despite Isaiah 14:12, Lk 10:17), but an angel, who still has the key at 20:1. The Abyss is not Sh'ol (as at Ro 10:7), but a place where demonic beings are imprisoned (vv. 2-11, 11:7, 17:8, 20:2-3). In the Apocrypha, God is called, "You who close and seal the Abyss with your fearful and glorious name" (Prayer of Manasseh 3). . . .
3 Demonic monsters are released which fly like locusts (Exodus 10:12-20; Joel 1:4, 2:4-14) and sting like scorpions (Ezekiel 2:6, Lk 11:12). (pp. 815, 816, Jewish New Testament Commentary)

that was a really good post synergy.
it reflects much of how i see things.
you are right on how religions were corrupted but they still contain some of the (now hidden) truths and how PTBs want to destroy the same because of the former.

i also like your reasoning that you applied.
we need more people like you and (and few others) who can cut through the bullshit and who can see the big picture and express it in own way. because, that helps others understand the stuff better, when there are more "high perspectives" that differ in interpretation.

yes, the biggest problem is because man is trying to become a god himself and his is blindly following his mind/ego and that is leading away from the truth.

because, the truth is that we are powerful, but only if we tap into the universal force of creation.
that link with the creator is what makes us powerful.
IMO, of course.

[Ian2day]

Some interesting points made in this article



Distinctions Between Intellectuals And Pseudo-Intellectuals

By Sydney Harris, Detroit Free Press, (11/20/81)
*The intellectual is looking for the right questions to ask; the pseudo is giving what he claims to be the right answers.
*The intellectual is evidently motivated by a disinterested love of truth; the pseudo is interested in being right, or being thought to be right, whether he is or not.
*The intellectual is willing to admit that what he does not know is far greater than what he knows; the pseudo claims to know as much as can be known about the subject under consideration.
*The intellectual states as good a case for his adversary as can be made out; the pseudo sets up a straw man and beats it to death for the sake of seeming superior.
*The intellectual is deeply and constantly aware of the limitations of human reason; the pseudo makes a deity of reason and tries to force it into realms it cannot penetrate.
*The intellectual seeks light from whatever source, realizing that ideas are no respecters of persons and turn up in the most unexpected places from the most improbable people; the pseudo accepts ideas, when he does, only from experts and specialists and certified authorities.
*The intellectual advances an hypothesis that he hopes may be true; the pseudo propounds a dogma that he insists is true.
*The intellectual recognizes that opposites are not always contradictory, and may indeed reinforce each other; the pseudo paints a picture in black and white, right or wrong, leaving no room for a contrary viewpoint.
*The intellectual knows there are no final answers to human questions; the pseudo makes each tentative and provisional answer sound like a finality.
*The intellectual is courageous in opposing majority opinion, even when it jeopardizes his position; the pseudo slavishly follows "the most reliable authorities" in his field sneering at heresies.
*The intellectual never talks down to his audience, but tries to be as clear as possible; the pseudo talks above his audience to mystify and impress them."

http://www.suppressedscience.net/intellectuals.html

[king]

Funny that he should be into Jung. I went into a New Age bookshop once and asked for any books that were not on religion. I mean it was putting itself out as a normal bookshop so It was a straight forward request. Out of two floors of books I was pointed to half a shelf on psychology and Jung was a favourite. He was an occultist, that's why and a student of the fraud Freud. If nothing else these people are predictable.


yes, once you "pick a a pattern" it become easy to see what those people are up to.
I often download the mp3 audios of the shows and while i go for a walk -- i listen what they have to say.
and i listen lots of different stuff, to get different perspectives and to hear what conspiracy researcher A is
saying about work of conspiracy researcher B or what is being avoided.
this builds a better whole picture than listening to only few conspiracy researchers, because -- there are people who are put in there to deceive us.

anyways, with above methods, i am armed to scrutinize the information.
so, when i hear something that just does not make a sense -- i rewind the mp3 player, sometimes a few times until it mentally clicks in or clashes with other information that i already know. I can just feel when something is out of place.
this works really well, because you only need to pickup a
sentence or two in order to understand the agenda of a given character or his own delusion.

And about your point with posts. Well I suppose I have knocked up about 15000 in the last few years, each one, call it a hundred views to be conservative. That's a lot of waking people up and I find that if you aim them at intelligent people on mainstream news forums the ideas can quite easily get picked up by national journalists too lazy to do their own research. I figure I have a few journalist fans out there, I keep seeing stuff in the papers. The trick is to keep consistently feeding out high quality info and solidly backed up with provable facts. Journalists must have these or they get strung up for Libel. Give them what they need and the government feel the pressure and they come back for more.

on what other forums do you post?
can you give us some of articles that those journalists wrote?

thanks!

[tru3]

yeah, i remember that episode when he had lost it completely!

hopefully i have not contributed to that breakdown of his
:wink:


interesting you said that he was 'forced to change'
because he did change after he was exposed on "forum"


i think that people are underestimating Maxwell and his "conspiracy researcher" factory


Maxwell is very clever, but he is not as slick as Tsarion is, that is why many people are unable to pick that one up,
Tsarion is the master of slickness, and since he is coming from Maxwell's school and well trained with methods of NA brainwashing - am not surprised.


lest time I checked Tsarion was pushing Carl Gustav Jung
theories, that is that we are all basically psychos and that we need to "clean up". See, it is always us who need
to check our mental health, it does not matter if
that is MSM or AM ( "aternative media" )
it is always us who are sick according to bush cabal or Maxwell Cabal.


and, of course Tsarion is still using now standard, almost undetectable bashing of monotheistic religions, while promoting New Age crap. Because NA religion is the illuminati religion, they want to get rid of monotheistic religions that are based on tribe and family unit that is the basis of the tribe.

Lately, Tsarion is peddling the idea that Ireland was cradle of civilization.
he seems to have run out of (read exposed) other theories
like crowley and Blavatski worship and Mark 1,2,3,4 adamic beings, Atlanthian civilization and such.

It almost feels like if he is buying the time, and if you listen to his interviews you will see that he is often dragging a topic way too long and he seems to be controlling the flow of the information and topic in each show.
That is a dead giveaway.

bummer, now that he is exposed he would have to do some downsizing, with all of his 7 web sites or so.


:D

now, think about this.
thanks to a very few people who figured out Tsarion's agenda -- that sleazeball is exposed, so that hundreds and later thousands of people who would otherwise follow him have learned how deception works.

So, this right there tells you how powerful each of you people is!

and all that it took it was one person making a post, questioning Tsarion, and then few other people joined in and exposed the fucker for good!

people, that is what the real power is!
real power is not in some stupid cards or some magik shite as Tsarion professed!

i had never even heard of tsarion until a couple of months ago. i don't care for his forum. cults of personality are everywhere. so what? isn't it disappointing when 'prophets' have real problems?

that discounts the essence of the message, doesn't it?

you might as well say, "well, david icke can't git rid of that arthritis, so he must not be infinite love".

it lets one off the hook, so to speak, right? all that shadow work is bollocks, because mtsar wants to make a little money peddling his 'mysteries'. don't fucking kid yourself, boyos. at the end of the day, when all lights fade, that's where we're all gonna be. face to face with it. the light at the end of the tunnel leads to different rooms. Consciousness seeks its own level of understanding.

what does michael tsarion's ego have to do with the material in "the nature of evil"? and i don't give a rat's ass about the first hour and forty minutes of the material, i'm talking about the last 20 minutes, real guts of it, the displacement and projection of all this nightmare we as collective consciousness create. and i'm sure jung and the ptb's have been putting dream archetypes in your head since you were a baby, eh?

go get a copy of "the book of it", by georg groddeck, read it, and then tell me frued was full of shit. go read up on wilhelm reich, and tell me frued was full of shit. freud, imo, didn't go far enough. he had a reputation to maintain, after all. ;)

For all you lurkers out there. Don't ever rely on another to tell you someone is disinfo. Work it out for yourself if people are genuine or not. I would even go so far as to say you should really question those that are pointing the finger at others. Everyone has to make their own mind up. Use your discernment, use your own judgement and not that of any pseudo intellectuals that claim to know better than you. Me, I'm just a bloke that has seen a Reptillian for real, so what would I know about anyones motives. Everyone and I suppose even I have an agenda. What we all have to work out, is if they are genuine or directed by other forces. Be wary of people creating 'strawmans' and using them to discredit all information that someone has to give.

thanks, ian. the last time i checked, there are 58 people on this forum as i write this. so if there's eyeballs out there: we're a fierce lot, but don't be afraid to put yourself out here. everyone here has a voice, i don't give a flying fig how many posts any of us had two years ago.

it's absolutely imperative imo that everyone find their own way through the material. cling to nothing. avoid nothing. ask the 'right' questions, whatever they are for each of us. one size does NOT fit all. there are ALL kinds of opinions on ALL kinds of material, and that's what they are: subjective impressions and interpretations. context is everything. to borrow a phrase, look for the unity in the diversity, not vice versa.

unfortunately for all of us when it comes to sources on these matters, it really is "caveat emptor", as much as it infuriates me at times.

[adramelech]

Watt can be fun sometimes, but anyone that says "Icke's reptilians" is basically shooting themselves in the foot right away. Icke has contributed virtually nothing to the field of reptilian research aside from interviewing people who were talking about it long before he was and bringing attention to the books of older research he used to formulate his ideas. David Icke has absolutely nothing to do with the concept of humanoid reptilian creatures interacting with humanity, a theme which you find all over the world in the oldest civilizations, physically, metaphysically, symbolically and spiritually.

[eternal_spirit]

is Icke being funded? ... buy the people who buy his books and pay for his website subscription... and who go and see his talks.... yes....

heavily promoted??
mmmmm I would say that is a bit of an egsaduration.... in the past he has had zilch... in recent times he has had SOME promotion... this is due to the internet allowing him to spread his works more and thus more exposure...more public interest...more pressure on the mainstream to take note...

where does his money come from?? ...same as above.... but its not as if he is rolling in cash.... he earns a living... but I don't think he has a Ferrari and a Rolex...

there was all this stuff bout him living in a huge house and so on....its all rubbish....

If the Illuminati or who ever Watt suggests is fundng Icke's work, surley if it was true Icke would have his own radio station and have positive reviews in the mainstram media, his books would be in every major high street book shop ..... now that would be heavy promotion.

[synergy777]

king cheers. ian very good post. i think the best way is to get all viewpoints, angles and cross reference them. that way by a process of elimination we can get somewhere near the truth. there will always be a level of uncertainity as the data we have acces to is controlled, and will also contain the researchers bias, perecption. what can do is aim to be independant, objective. when there are numerous theories floating about, its worth taking them with a pinch of salt. this is why the real answer will only come with a pooling of resources, talents, etc.

also i never calim to know teh real truth, what i can do is be objective and go against herd thought. if i knew all the answers i wouldn't be here, i would be tearing down the nwo, obelisks and all, lol in fact no one knows all the answers, hence why i stress teamwork/family of mankind coming together in this exciting endeavour. there are no star players.

1 love, peace

[tru3]

king cheers. ian very good post. i think the best way is to get all viewpoints, angles and cross reference them. that way by a process of elimination we can get somewhere near the truth. there will always be a level of uncertainity as the data we have acces to is controlled, and will also contain the researchers bias, perecption. what can do is aim to be independant, objective. when there are numerous theories floating about, its worth taking them with a pinch of salt. this is why the real answer will only come with a pooling of resources, talents, etc.

also i never calim to know teh real truth, what i can do is be objective and go against herd thought. if i knew all the answers i wouldn't be here, i would be tearing down the nwo, obelisks and all, lol in fact no one knows all the answers, hence why i stress teamwork/family of mankind coming together in this exciting endeavour. there are no star players.

1 love, peace

thanks for the post, synergy. i like the teamwork that you're speaking of. :)we all bring different backgrounds, different interests, different experiences to this forum. without all of them, we are diminished. jmo.

[king]

thanks for the post, synergy. i like the teamwork that you're speaking of. :)we all bring different backgrounds, different interests, different experiences to this forum. without all of them, we are diminished. jmo.


ditto... to all of you!
yes, teamwork is the only way that we can remove the shackles of enslavement once and for all.

[eternal_spirit]

We'll never know what Watt's real views on reps are, He publicy denies the exstence of them as far as I'm aware.

I think what he doesn't like is the amount of researchers pushing the rep agenda, Icke just being one of the more known ones. Watt calls it predictive programming, certain subjects are written in sci fi books, films as though these agendas are being pushed onto the public from many different sources, some being funded or promoted by the brotherhood.

This can take researchers into the rep agenda and waste time as Watt sees it, when they could be finding out infromation about other more provable subjects. Afterall Watt does know his History about the way the Elite have behaved towards the masses and reveals much of their future agenda.

Icke has some great theorys about reps and stuff that Watt doesn't cover, yet Watt has his own agenda to reveal through his own research.

Thumbs up not fingers to both Icke and Watt :D

[terminus_est]

I used to post on the other David Icke forum known as 'The Forum' and the amount of cretins promoting Tsarion was unbelievable. I fought that battle against nearly everyone, such was the power of the brainwashing he was employing. I'd say he was at the level of expert brainwasher (PhD level if you like) and the idiots fell for it hook line and sinker. To even mention that it might be dodgy created a barrage of abuse but one by one people started to have second opinions. It was a battle and a half but I think it finally did something, Tsarion lost it at one point and revealed his true nature. That went round the net and it would be reasonable to say it was a case of another stooge down and more to go. Maxwell got the heat and so did Sitchen until the point where their reputation was falling apart. No wonder Tsarion has changed, he was forced to.

Yeah and I played some part in the Tsarion scandal at that time. Apparently, one of the first things that drew his attention to The Forum was a thread I started on his speculations on the Bible he writes about in his Atlantis book and people like BassClef, yourself, and True Lilly were hotly engaged in it. I went over to his blog and got his attention, and from there on, he gradually got annoyed and mad as he read post after post. Then his shit gradually started to hit the fan and it's stench was blown across the Forum.

Regarding Maxwell and Sitchin, I think I may have missed some past event Baron, but are you saying that they have heard of Tsarion's situation and and they both revealed their true natures?

interesting you said that he was 'forced to change'
because he did change after he was exposed on "forum"

I'm not surprised, but what change occurred in him?

As for Freud and Jung, well I don't know much about these two escept they were shady characters, Freud being a whacked-out sex pervert and cocaine abuser, and Jung being an occultist whose childhood I feel sorry for. In fact according to people like Texe Marrs, most of what is in the fields of psychology and psychiatry is bunk. I'd like to look further into this as he has a whole radio show explaining this in detail, though the problem is that I can't listen to it since one has to purchase that radio show.

BTW, good posts, King and Synergy. :)

[baron von lotsov]

Regarding Maxwell and Sitchin, I think I may have missed some past event Baron, but are you saying that they have heard of Tsarion's situation and and they both revealed their true natures?




Yes I was helping to put people right about Maxwell and also Sitchen. I suppose Maxwell's cover blew after that court case where he had to repay the gullible American public back $440 000 (ouch!) for the infamous BBC of America. The word got out about Sitchen and his rocket ship built from bricks and mortar (Sitchen translation!) so since they are all from the same school if you like I guess they are still feeling a bit devoid of fans. I did some editing in the Wikipedia and I think that might have helped because everyone refers to that. Its within the first 4 links on a Google search on his name.

[mada88]

ditto... to all of you!
yes, teamwork is the only way that we can remove the shackles of enslavement once and for all.

Teamwork is for losers.

[synergy777]

mada88, and you are what the one, know it all, share with us oh great teacher, liberator of your brothers/sisters. proper prat in my view.

watch matrix do we, think we are neo, lol has the ego got you into a messiah complex. anyone starts thinking he knows it all, he is the messiah etc, is ego hustled.

if teamwork is for losers, then why do the best teams win, lol

all for one, one for all, one love, peace

[mada88]

mada88, and you are what the one, know it all, share with us oh great teacher, liberator of your brothers/sisters. proper prat in my view.

watch matrix do we, think we are neo, lol has the ego got you into a messiah complex. anyone starts thinking he knows it all, he is the messiah etc, is ego hustled.

if teamwork is for losers, then why do the best teams win, lol

all for one, one for all, one love, peace

I just said teamwork is for losers, if you want proof go see if any millionaires got there by using teamwork. Oh yes we are a team. Team sports are an excuse to blame others just go play football and see how people blame each other. Why don't you go and hope things will get better. Liberator? Teacher? The reason the messiah doesn't save people is because you need to save yourself that is if you need saving oh course. Anyway I'm not my ego (egg shell) that’s not who I am. Right now I'm a computer program that’s what I'm experiencing/doing but it is not who I am. Anyway nothing needs to be taught, no in-formation can liberate anyone. And no mass number of people can truly wake up it is never going to happen so don't believe the "truth". Anyone starts thinking he knows it all? How can you put thinking and knowing in the same sentence? They have nothing to do with each other.
Anyway how the fuck did you come to messiah/ego conclusions from me saying teamwork is for losers??????
I agree with Alan Watt when he talks about the individual being the elites main problem. Does the individual get invovled with teams?

[synergy777]

millionaires get rich by being smart. they have people who work for them, they don't do everything themselves, they delegate. they get people with good skill sets and utilise their skills.

a team is collective of individuals, not a borg like hivemind. the team will only work when all individuals are fulfilling their own potential, hence they improve, their contribution improves, the teams improves.

well if you don't need teamwork, it could suggest you have the whole package, the whole skill set, hence no need for teamwork. as for computer program, okay. see i know my strengths, and weaknesses, hence i like the idea of teamwork. also the term synergy, explains a lot.

Synergy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Synergy (from the Greek synergos, συνεργός meaning working together, circa 1660) refers to the phenomenon in which two or more discrete influences or agents acting together create an effect greater than that predicted by knowing only the separate effects of the individual agents. It is originally a scientific term. Often (but not always, see Toxicologic synergy, below) the prediction is the sum of the effects each is able to create independently. The opposite of synergy is antagonism, the phenomenon where two agents in combination have an overall effect which is less than that predicted from their individual effects. Synergism stems from the 1657 theological doctrine that human will cooperates with the Divine Grace in regeneration[1]. The term began to be used in the broader, non-theological, sense by 1925. Synergy can also mean:

A mutually advantageous conjunction where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Human synergy relates to interacting humans. For example, if person A alone is too short to reach an apple on a tree and person B is too short as well. Once person B sits on the shoulders of person A, they are more than tall enough to reach the apple. In this example, the product of their synergy would be one apple. Another case would be two politicians. If each is able to gather one million votes on their own, but together they were able to appeal to 2.5 million voters, their synergy would have produced 500,000 more votes than had they each worked independently.

A third form of human synergy is when one person is able to complete two separate tasks by doing one action. For example, if a person was asked by a teacher and his boss at work to write an essay on how he could improve his work, that would be considered synergy.

Synergy usually arises when two persons with different complementary skills cooperate. The fundamental example is cooperation of men and women in a couple. In business, cooperation of people with organizational and technical skills happens very often. In general, the most common reason why people cooperate is that it brings a synergy. On the other hand, people tend to specialize just to be able to form groups with high synergy (see also division of labor and teamwork).

Computers and humans
Synergy can also be defined as the combination of human strengths and computer strengths. Computers can process data much faster than humans, but lack common sense. When a person uses a computer, the person’s thoughts are the input for the computer, where it is translated into efficient processing of large amounts of data. Other humans must first set up the methods for processing.


the real threat is individuals who empower themselves, grow themselves, and help others too also. then when empowered individuals work together as a cohesive unit, working together in harmony, the threat is even greater. look at the nwo, they work together, no matter what colour, religion etc.

[mada88]

Teamwork= an excuse to blame others hence if you want something doing DIY do it yourself to ensure you get what YOU want.

[synergy777]

blame, we won't we be in a postion to complain, if we don't unite.lol

anyway, a bit of team banter is good.

[king]

Yeah and I played some part in the Tsarion scandal at that time. Apparently, one of the first things that drew his attention to The Forum was a thread I started on his speculations on the Bible he writes about in his Atlantis book and people like BassClef, yourself, and True Lilly were hotly engaged in it. I went over to his blog and got his attention, and from there on, he gradually got annoyed and mad as he read post after post. Then his shit gradually started to hit the fan and it's stench was blown across the Forum.

Regarding Maxwell and Sitchin, I think I may have missed some past event Baron, but are you saying that they have heard of Tsarion's situation and and they both revealed their true natures?




oh, yes... i remember that one. good work!


I'm not surprised, but what change occurred in him?

it is as if he has changed, in a positive way.
he is not pushing those crazy B.S. theories. as he used to, seems more sincere.
but, i do not know for sure -- he could be just more cunning.

As for Freud and Jung, well I don't know much about these two except they were shady characters, Freud being a whacked-out sex pervert and cocaine abuser, and Jung being an occultist whose childhood I feel sorry for. In fact according to people like Texe Marrs, most of what is in the fields of psychology and psychiatry is bunk. I'd like to look further into this as he has a whole radio show explaining this in detail, though the problem is that I can't listen to it since one has to purchase that radio show.


oh yes, those two headshrinkers are some characters.
they have served the elite really well.

As far as psychology and psychiatry fields are concerned -- i know that they are bunk, even worse than that.
i have a friend who works in county hospital as a shrink, and i can tell you that i am absolutely appalled by what i learned from her.

she makes more than 250K per year by just giving the patients drugs and there are large kickbacks for doctors by drug companies as well.

the way shrinkology works is simple -- you tell them the symptoms and they give you the drug to treat your condition.

because, even if you are a normal person -- there is a "condition" for you that requires drugs to 'fix you up'.

there was this doctor who claimed that even a normal person will be misdiagnosed as a lunatic, so he has set out to prove it, he even told some institutions that he will send some "crazies" to their institution(s) and that they won't be able to pick them up.

the institutions took his offer. soon afterwards the doctor and his other volunteer friends came to different institutions and they said that they heard "thud" in their heads.
guess what ? they were put in institution because they were diagnosed as mental cases.
just because they said that they heard a "thud"

all thanks to Fraud and Jung psychology.

here as the link that i just dug up:

http://www.slate.com/id/2144123/