I'm starting to go off alcohol

[pleasuredome]

since starting my sessions of ayahuasca, i've really get this aversion to alcohol now. its not that i dont like it, ive always liked a beer and red wine, it just this strong feeling not to put alcohol in my system.

i dont believe that its the aya itself thats done it, but maybe just a change in my perception. neither would it follow that you need aya for a change in perception like this.

has anyone else felt the same way, and not just because you read that alcohol might be bad for you?

[helpus]

alcohol wouldn't be my first choice... but it's the one my trusted Democratic Government lets me have.

[whiterain]

yeah me too. i kind of miss it but i just feel shit if i have more than say a couple of pints. doesnt help the social life as doing the things you used to do but sober shows you what a fuckin waste of time it all was

[wideawake]

I dont miss alcohol anymore. It used to make me mad but now it chill me out. I havent had a drink for a week and i dont even miss it. It's just sheep medicine.

[bigjayonline]

Been training lately so not been drinking atall. Had a pint last night and felt monged all day today! To be honest if i have a proper drink it takes me 3-4 days to get over it but i think it really messes with your mind too. I notice paranoia and depression creeping in so guess it helps keeps the sheeple in line????

[cleft_asunder]

yeah me too. i kind of miss it but i just feel shit if i have more than say a couple of pints. doesnt help the social life as doing the things you used to do but sober shows you what a fuckin waste of time it all was

Absolutely.

[kiwimaj]

since starting my sessions of ayahuasca, i've really get this aversion to alcohol now. its not that i dont like it, ive always liked a beer and red wine, it just this strong feeling not to put alcohol in my system.

i dont believe that its the aya itself thats done it, but maybe just a change in my perception. neither would it follow that you need aya for a change in perception like this.

has anyone else felt the same way, and not just because you read that alcohol might be bad for you?

I still like the odd glass or 2, but do want to chuck it in completely, I agree, it's sheep medicine, another tool to control the masses..:mad:

[tracker]

I dont miss alcohol anymore. It used to make me mad but now it chill me out. I havent had a drink for a week and i dont even miss it. It's just sheep medicine.

never a truer word spoken .

i dont drink alchohol , i did once but not anymore .

those that dont


have the edge !:cool:


the sharpness of being on the ball , on the spot , true and straight .

:cool:

[cleft_asunder]

I finally got my dad to quit alcohol about a month or so ago. He was having really bad back problems and I told him that it's because of his drinking. He's a carpenter and therefore does strenuous work. My dad has been an avid drinker most of his life, and when I suggested to him that alcohol was the root of his problems he became pissed. Naturally I brought it up as much as I could despite his irratibility, but his love for drink outweighed my opinion so I couldn't gain any ground.

Short story shorter, nothing the doctors prescribed worked other than my suggestion that he quit alcohol and start drinking lots more water. His back pain is gone and, for the first time, he actually believes that I know what I'm talking about.

btw: Lower back pain pertains to the kidney's, while upper back pain pertains to the liver.

[cleft_asunder]

never a truer word spoken .

i dont drink alchohol , i did once but not anymore .

those that dont


have the edge !:cool:


the sharpness of being on the ball , on the spot , true and straight .

:cool:

Yes indeed, we do have the edge. Isn't it interesting how not drinking makes you stand out? I no longer drink, smoke pot, smoke cigarette's and I've never touched coffee. It's a blast I tell you! It's all about respecting yourself.

[kblood]

I agreem no reason to pollute the body with any of it. I do drink now and then, although the after effects bother me. The day or night of drinking followed by a wasted day of doing nothing much at all. Followed by a few more days of recovering, not being well rested.

I also smoke cigarettes now and then, and with that I also feel the bad effects it has. Luckily I have enough self discipline to make rules about it, and being able to stop smoking, keeping it a social thing. It still brings quite immediate and noticable reduced endurance. Cant run as much and not have as much air. I dont smoke at work at all, since it takes away the breaks, which would be so wasted with smoking.

Still, I dont have the discipline to stop altogether, its just periods of not smoking at all, and periods of smoking a bit now and then. Same with the drinking.

Also the part about drinking lots of water as was mentioned. Sure helps improve health in all ways. Hard to come by good water though, but todays diets too often goes without even 1 gallon of water a week, while we ought to drink about one a day.

[netta]

Well good for you! I don't drink alcohol because I don't like the taste, I don't like how it makes me feel (the times that I have tried it), and I don't like the way it makes other people act.

I just have a really bad feeling about it. I don't trust it. Anything that can make you act so kooky like that is not good for you.

[cleft_asunder]

I agreem no reason to pollute the body with any of it. I do drink now and then, although the after effects bother me. The day or night of drinking followed by a wasted day of doing nothing much at all. Followed by a few more days of recovering, not being well rested.

I also smoke cigarettes now and then, and with that I also feel the bad effects it has. Luckily I have enough self discipline to make rules about it, and being able to stop smoking, keeping it a social thing. It still brings quite immediate and noticable reduced endurance. Cant run as much and not have as much air. I dont smoke at work at all, since it takes away the breaks, which would be so wasted with smoking.

Still, I dont have the discipline to stop altogether, its just periods of not smoking at all, and periods of smoking a bit now and then. Same with the drinking.

Also the part about drinking lots of water as was mentioned. Sure helps improve health in all ways. Hard to come by good water though, but todays diets too often goes without even 1 gallon of water a week, while we ought to drink about one a day.

The reason you still have cravings is because you are in a state of limbo. You are neither pushing hard towards health nor un-health. The original poster, for example, took Ayahuasca which is a powerful medicine just in terms of chemical composition. It tastes aweful to the average person, which means it's super powerful. Taking such a powerful medicine changed his body's cravings. It was a big push towards health --a step forward-- and now his body is reluctant to move in the opposite direction. It has adapted to this positive medicine and it likes it.

If he were to get heavily drunk one day, the body would start adapting again and he will get used to the poison, but he will be moving towards a state of unhealth.

If you want to get out of limbo, you start doing things that are battering rams towards health, such as eating perfectly, experimenting with herbs, and doing various cleanses such as bowel cleanse, which is most important.

[cheeney1]

It Doesn't matter how much Alcohol you consume you just end up Pissing it up against some Wall some where :cool:

[cleft_asunder]

Well good for you! I don't drink alcohol because I don't like the taste, I don't like how it makes me feel (the times that I have tried it), and I don't like the way it makes other people act.

I just have a really bad feeling about it. I don't trust it. Anything that can make you act so kooky like that is not good for you.

Well that's a big point right there. Although the main reason I stopped drinking it was due to health problems, I would have quit anyway because I got tired of the pretentiousness. Alcohol makes people behave as if they actually give a damn about other people, but when it wears off they don't. It makes you overly friendly in other words. I like myself as genuine rather than pretentious, and I respect that in other people.

[lhaull]

I was a heavy drinker, used it to feel 'normal.'
But I have been off it for 6 years now.
Believe me, people who I used to drink with needed a shot when I refused a pint in the bar for the first time.
*Grin

I had a few beers about 2 years ago on my birthday, and I felt like I was drowning inside as my thoughts became fuddled and the clarity which I have come to identify myself with dissolved.

Perhaps I'll have a glass of wine tonight, just to shake up the experience of being sober.

Then again, maybe not.

Love to all.

[haukipesukone]

since starting my sessions of ayahuasca, i've really get this aversion to alcohol now. its not that i dont like it, ive always liked a beer and red wine, it just this strong feeling not to put alcohol in my system.

i dont believe that its the aya itself thats done it, but maybe just a change in my perception. neither would it follow that you need aya for a change in perception like this.

has anyone else felt the same way, and not just because you read that alcohol might be bad for you?

I want to try ayahuasca. I wanna, I wanna, I wanna.

Lately alcohol has tasted good, but that's mainly because of person's of the opposite sex. Sorrow is a hard bitch to drown.

But normally I don't like alcohol much. It's nice to drink every now and then just to remind myself what it's like.

[los_nomo]

I'll drink wine at a family function every now and then, but mostly it has been 22 years since I drank to excess. I never liked drinking when i did it and I did it mostly out of peer pressure and taking grownups as my model. Pot was fun then too, but i used it much less and stopped cold about the same time. I think the mystical usage of ayachusa has helped you immensely realize the folly of drinking alcohol even as a social thing.

[cleft_asunder]

I want to try ayahuasca. I wanna, I wanna, I wanna.

Lately alcohol has tasted good, but that's mainly because of person's of the opposite sex. Sorrow is a hard bitch to drown.

But normally I don't like alcohol much. It's nice to drink every now and then just to remind myself what it's like.

Ayahuasca isn't fun, it's scary. Once you drink it, you feel like you made a huge mistake because you feel like you're going to die as an ego. I don't currently believe it can produce a REAL ego death, but if it doesn't then it comes real close.

[thorleyart]

I like getting really drunk, once or twice a month, it's a good stress release sometimes.

[psych641]

alcohol isnt a proper drug as it doesnt act on any receptors. Therefore it could be viewed as a true poisoning, rather than a key to our natural cerebral paradises.

[jojo]

im not a big fan of alcohol. it really makes my body react badly. nausia, headaches, lethargic... i only partake now if its a really nice bottle of wine or traditional cider or something... and then a glass usually is enough.

[godspeed]

lol sheeps medecine....abstain is best for clarity of mind...i quite fancy trying that stuff your taking,where would i get it ???

[whiterain]

cheers cleft. im 6'6" so used to get a bit of back pain due to everything being too small for me. now that you mention it since ive stoppped drinking ive had no problem with it. all the more reason to keep off it.

as for aya, if lsd can cause ego loss (lower ego at least) then im sure aya can do the same, with the bonus of its added cleansing purgative effects.

gotta try me some of that soon. cant find any mushies :confused: may grow some tho if i can get me some spores

[jahzel]

it just this strong feeling not to put alcohol in my system.

I feel like that every morning :rolleyes:

[bones]

I finally got my dad to quit alcohol about a month or so ago. He was having really bad back problems and I told him that it's because of his drinking. He's a carpenter and therefore does strenuous work. My dad has been an avid drinker most of his life, and when I suggested to him that alcohol was the root of his problems he became pissed. Naturally I brought it up as much as I could despite his irratibility, but his love for drink outweighed my opinion so I couldn't gain any ground.

Short story shorter, nothing the doctors prescribed worked other than my suggestion that he quit alcohol and start drinking lots more water. His back pain is gone and, for the first time, he actually believes that I know what I'm talking about.

btw: Lower back pain pertains to the kidney's, while upper back pain pertains to the liver.

thats interesting my friend as i drink most days and do suffer with lower back pain, i assumed it was cos lifted heavy weights back when i was in a factory. but to quit a beer after my hard day at work is not so easy, i am however awake to the agenda, also the im into the freeman on the land route.

[whiterain]

for godspeed or anyone interested in ayahuasca or psychadelics. of course any experience will be truely individual but just seen this amazing trip scene from the film renegade/blueberry here http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=blueberry&emb=0&aq=f#

for a taste of what you may be in for. anyone knowing of the whereabouts of the whole film id love to see it

[nwoexposer]

I still like the odd glass or 2, but do want to chuck it in completely, I agree, it's sheep medicine, another tool to control the masses..:mad:

I've often thought that if alcohol was a "wonder drug" the establishment would not make it legal.

[cleft_asunder]

cheers cleft. im 6'6" so used to get a bit of back pain due to everything being too small for me. now that you mention it since ive stoppped drinking ive had no problem with it. all the more reason to keep off it.

as for aya, if lsd can cause ego loss (lower ego at least) then im sure aya can do the same, with the bonus of its added cleansing purgative effects.

gotta try me some of that soon. cant find any mushies :confused: may grow some tho if i can get me some spores

I don't like growing or taking mushrooms because mushrooms are a poison not a medicine, that's why after 6 hours people will start to crash. For me, I get a mushroom hangover the next day. A healthy person will not experience this much because their liver, bowels, kidneys and if needed the skin can eleminate it quickly.

Regarding Aya, I just go for mimosa-huasca these days, which standardly is mimosa (DMT) and syrian rue (MAOI). Cheap and much easier to prepare since less is required. Anyone who tells you that this isn't real aya is a snob. Sure it uses different plants, but it's the same medicine but with it's own style.

[cleft_asunder]

I've often thought that if alcohol was a "wonder drug" the establishment would not make it legal.

Yes but just because they make something illegal does not mean they don't want you to use it, such as pot.

[cleft_asunder]

thats interesting my friend as i drink most days and do suffer with lower back pain, i assumed it was cos lifted heavy weights back when i was in a factory. but to quit a beer after my hard day at work is not so easy, i am however awake to the agenda, also the im into the freeman on the land route.

Well, I know how hard it can be but be careful because the last thing you want to do is weaken your kidney's because they don't regenerate as well as the liver. Sure, you can restore your kidney's to new but you have to change a lot of things and use herbs and most people don't have the discipline to do that.

[nwoexposer]

It Doesn't matter how much Alcohol you consume you just end up Pissing it up against some Wall some where :cool:


Lol, that happens to me a lot especially with Melbourne's lack of public restrooms, especially at night.

im not a big fan of alcohol. it really makes my body react badly. nausia, headaches, lethargic... i only partake now if its a really nice bottle of wine or traditional cider or something... and then a glass usually is enough.

Same here but I've also been overwhelming cravings for junk food and giving in to them after having hits lately. Food that I would not otherwise have had.

[whiterain]

I don't like growing or taking mushrooms because mushrooms are a poison not a medicine, that's why after 6 hours people will start to crash. For me, I get a mushroom hangover the next day. A healthy person will not experience this much because their liver, bowels, kidneys and if needed the skin can eleminate it quickly.

Regarding Aya, I just go for mimosa-huasca these days, which standardly is mimosa (DMT) and syrian rue (MAOI). Cheap and much easier to prepare since less is required. Anyone who tells you that this isn't real aya is a snob. Sure it uses different plants, but it's the same medicine but with it's own style.

what would you say are the main differences between this mixture and mushies cleft? do you still get the purge of the aya?

[rhydra]

I have made my own beer and wine in the past. It works out to about 14p per pint, no tax. However, I have made beer from the official packs, ie from boots and other places. The effect after a couple of pints has been a queasy feeling, unpleasant nausea. I tried making it from a plain pack of malt, yeast and hops bought separately. No nausia. I think something is put in the ready to brew homebrew packs to make it less of an alternative to taxable, mass produced beer and wine.

[schaff]

I love a drink it helps me unwind i do agree with a lot of points on this thread .For instance i avoid spirits as they turn me into a nutter especially jack daniels or jim beam.I normally drink larger or ale and the odd glass of red wine when i do drink .I dont drink every day maybe once in the week and at the weekend it comes hand in hand with a smoke and some good freinds.If you do drink use it dont abuse it:D

[nwoexposer]

I hate putting alcohol in my system but it helps me get rid of social inhibitions. The ultimate solution would be to find something that can help get rid of social fears and be spontaneous. Anyone know of such a substance as a healthier alternative to alcohol?

[spiritist]

since starting my sessions of ayahuasca, i've really get this aversion to alcohol now. its not that i dont like it, ive always liked a beer and red wine, it just this strong feeling not to put alcohol in my system.

i dont believe that its the aya itself thats done it, but maybe just a change in my perception. neither would it follow that you need aya for a change in perception like this.

has anyone else felt the same way, and not just because you read that alcohol might be bad for you?

Ayahuasca removes the control you have over your mind. I would advise against using it. It seems to have become so fashionable at the moment, with the likes of Graham Hancock doing it - so he can sell more books from his experiences. Listening to him bang on about his Amazon sales one evening made me feel sad. But thats for another time. There are other ways to experience altered states of consciousness and the best one takes a long time to develop and that is acheived by self-discipline of the mind.

Ayahuasca is a fast track way to experiencing what exactly, since you dont have control of your mind properly, because you have given control over to the drug. This is so dumb. Tell me what tastes better. Instant coffee or fresh ground coffee? Same with attaining altered states of conscious. Don't use a drug as a quickener. Makes no sense. Always control your own mind at all times. The mind is amazing and requires no props.

[hunger]

I hate putting alcohol in my system but it helps me get rid of social inhibitions. The ultimate solution would be to find something that can help get rid of social fears and be spontaneous. Anyone know of such a substance as a healthier alternative to alcohol?

Confidence :)

[steppewar]

I have made my own beer and wine in the past. It works out to about 14p per pint, no tax. However, I have made beer from the official packs, ie from boots and other places. The effect after a couple of pints has been a queasy feeling, unpleasant nausea. I tried making it from a plain pack of malt, yeast and hops bought separately. No nausia. I think something is put in the ready to brew homebrew packs to make it less of an alternative to taxable, mass produced beer and wine.

At this moment in time I am homebrewing a Tom Caxton real ale kit for the first time. It will be ready in a week, don't know if it will be any good or not as I've never homebrewed beer before. It works out at 30p a pint.

However, for the last few months I have been homebrewing wine,(Youngs Wine Buddy 7 day kits), it only takes a week before it is ready to drink, cost's 15p a glass, tastes nice, get's you pissed and doesn't give you a hangover like the supermarket shite.

[pleasuredome]

Ayahuasca removes the control you have over your mind. I would advise against using it. It seems to have become so fashionable at the moment, with the likes of Graham Hancock doing it - so he can sell more books from his experiences. Listening to him bang on about his Amazon sales one evening made me feel sad. But thats for another time. There are other ways to experience altered states of consciousness and the best one takes a long time to develop and that is acheived by self-discipline of the mind.

Ayahuasca is a fast track way to experiencing what exactly, since you dont have control of your mind properly, because you have given control over to the drug. This is so dumb. Tell me what tastes better. Instant coffee or fresh ground coffee? Same with attaining altered states of conscious. Don't use a drug as a quickener. Makes no sense. Always control your own mind at all times. The mind is amazing and requires no props.

i most strongly disagree :)

however, i realise its not for everyone. i take it, you have tried it?

[armoured_amazon]

God's removed my desire for alcohol and drugs. It's funny, because I used to LOVE drinking and I have a shedload of booze in the house but it only gets brought out when I have company so they can drink it. I had a couple of drinks last night at my gig but it just made me feel sick and hungry. I also have no tolerance for it now. Weird how the body chemistry adjusts.

[nwoexposer]

Ayahuasca removes the control you have over your mind. I would advise against using it. It seems to have become so fashionable at the moment, with the likes of Graham Hancock doing it - so he can sell more books from his experiences. Listening to him bang on about his Amazon sales one evening made me feel sad. But thats for another time. There are other ways to experience altered states of consciousness and the best one takes a long time to develop and that is acheived by self-discipline of the mind.

Ayahuasca is a fast track way to experiencing what exactly, since you dont have control of your mind properly, because you have given control over to the drug. This is so dumb. Tell me what tastes better. Instant coffee or fresh ground coffee? Same with attaining altered states of conscious. Don't use a drug as a quickener. Makes no sense. Always control your own mind at all times. The mind is amazing and requires no props.

No offense, but what a load of crap! If David Icke had not have taken ayawaska, he wouldn't have been given further understanding of the nature of reality.

[spiritist]

No offense, but what a load of crap! If David Icke had not have taken ayawaska, he wouldn't have been given further understanding of the nature of reality.

I am afraid that it is because he did take something that afforded loss of control of his mind that makes his conclusions open to criticism.
The true pathway to understanding the nature of reality lies in each and every one of us, and to unlock the door of enlightenment we must use the purest, most untainted method possible to do so. When you do this, you will then understand that each individual needs to go through his or her own process and reach an unbiased, influence free conclusion.
You choose to identify yourself with the ayahuasca method. I say it is flawed because of the dependency on something which is external to ourselves. We dont need it. So many people are looking for the quick solution these days and enlightenment doesnt necessarily work like that. All halucinogens offer a different type of trip. Beware. Just stay true to yourself. The answers are within. Discover them naturally. That is how it was intended.

[pleasuredome]

I am afraid that it is because he did take something that afforded loss of control of his mind that makes his conclusions open to criticism.
The true pathway to understanding the nature of reality lies in each and every one of us, and to unlock the door of enlightenment we must use the purest, most untainted method possible to do so. When you do this, you will then understand that each individual needs to go through his or her own process and reach an unbiased, influence free conclusion.
You choose to identify yourself with the ayahuasca method. I say it is flawed because of the dependency on something which is external to ourselves. We dont need it. So many people are looking for the quick solution these days and enlightenment doesnt necessarily work like that. All halucinogens offer a different type of trip. Beware. Just stay true to yourself. The answers are within. Discover them naturally. That is how it was intended.

i just thought i'd ask once more, have you taken ayahuasca yourself?

[rhydra]

At this moment in time I am homebrewing a Tom Caxton real ale kit for the first time. It will be ready in a week, don't know if it will be any good or not as I've never homebrewed beer before. It works out at 30p a pint.

However, for the last few months I have been homebrewing wine,(Youngs Wine Buddy 7 day kits), it only takes a week before it is ready to drink, cost's 15p a glass, tastes nice, get's you pissed and doesn't give you a hangover like the supermarket shite.

My advice, twice as much sugar as recommended, they tell you all the things that could go wrong if you overdo the sugar. I started to put in at least twice as much with the plain ingredients, it can get to about 12 or so percent and does keep well when kept cool.
I did about three times as much as I dare once, that was as much as I dare but it was a powerful beast.
Everything has to be kept super-clean, however, I always ensure cleanliness and have never had a brew go wrong yet.:)

[tyler]

I don't drink and I don't do drugs and would never touch anything like the trendy stuff that has been mentioned here. Ahuasca? Something like that.

Alcohol stunts spiritual growth. It is like drinking liquid fear.

Who needs that? Drunks are no use to anyone.

David Icke does not look healthy to me. Someone needs to take him aside and explain a few things to him.

[shodan]

I go out once a week and get pretty hammered, it only takes 4 or 5 pints of guiness, but usually I carry on having more until the bars close. Its crap really as the day after is ruined and the negativity is unbelievable, and normally seeps into the second day after, then the day after that its back to work. However its a catch 22 situation, after working all week its a much needed release, if I were to not go out I'd go mad in a different way.
about 1 in every 10 nights out are any good.

I think the alcohol they are selling in pubs these days is different from what it was say 10-15 yrs ago, it seems to be making people very drunk compared to the past. who knows, it might even be triggered by something piggybacked on the wireless camera systems in bars now.

I think part of it is psychoschematic, years of vicious anti-alcohol adverts (similar to the anti-smoking ones) can't be good and give folk a predetermined feeling of negativity before they've even got to the bar.

Pubs were once a place to wind down, meet up with others and strangers, have a cigarette, talk, play pool, get away from the routine of life.
Now they have banned smoking, put huge big brother style television in them, made people feel crap about getting drunk and letting their hair down for the evening. Its the destruction of one of the last places where people physically meet up.

I've never seen the point of drinking in the house for the sake of drinking unless its with someone else. I don't carry drink in the house so when it comes to the end of the week those first two drinks do taste amazing.......

I think its all about balance, I reckon I'd have it cracked if I indulged once a fortnight or once a month rather than once a week. what say you?

[spiritist]

i just thought i'd ask once more, have you taken ayahuasca yourself?

Not falling into that trap thank you.

All I would say is that is to take any drug, especially one that induces an adverse physical reaction has to be naturally wrong. If you are dependent on drug use to reveal the extended consciousness then you are fast-tracking and therefore missing the journey of mind development, which is an important step in the process to enlightenment.

[pleasuredome]

Not falling into that trap thank you.

All I would say is that is to take any drug, especially one that induces an adverse physical reaction has to be naturally wrong. If you are dependent on drug use to reveal the extended consciousness then you are fast-tracking and therefore missing the journey of mind development, which is an important step in the process to enlightenment.

why would you think it to be a trap unless for some reason you know you arent being honest with yourself?

while i agree with you about developing your mind to experience what aya can give you, personally, i prefer to develop my own opinion on aya through first hand experience rather than take on someone else's opinion and repeat it. :)

[armoured_amazon]

If you are dependent on drug use to reveal the extended consciousness then you are fast-tracking and therefore missing the journey of mind development, which is an important step in the process to enlightenment.

I agree.

[psych641]

Not falling into that trap thank you.

All I would say is that is to take any drug, especially one that induces an adverse physical reaction has to be naturally wrong. If you are dependent on drug use to reveal the extended consciousness then you are fast-tracking and therefore missing the journey of mind development, which is an important step in the process to enlightenment.

Just to point out a few assumptions i think youve made.

1. that the 2 methods (with & without drugs) are mutually exclusive.

2. the issue of dependency.

I dont think you necessarily become reliant on psychedelics - the experience can be life-changing and prompt a person into new areas, like those you might suggest. eg. David Icke has only had one drug-induced trip (that we know about).

[pinkfreud]

im at a point now where the smell of alcohol puts me off. the only drink i like to have once in a while when im socialising is red wine :o

but i got terrible vices like smoking and caffeine addiction. it's no wonder caffeine and nicotine seem to go hand in hand so well, i know it's terrible but it [somehow] keeps me alert and awake. if i dont have that huge mug of coffee and a little puff before im off to work, im done for.

and no, im not a chain smoker.

[whiterain]

I agree.

drugs such as aya are no more dependency inducing than say shopping tho. in fact i would say most of the hallucinogens are actually anti addictive and been used to good effect to treat dependencys on other drugs. after all they are ancient teachers who will allow you to learn to control your own consciousness to a level where you can actually reproduce the positive effects of the drug experience through meditative practice. my 2nd time on acid i felt like wow this is my mind doing this not the drug, and i instantly knew that through breathing, meditation etc i would eventually be able to access similar states drug free. havent touched it since.

[pleasuredome]

changing and prompt a person into new areas, like those you might suggest. eg. David Icke has only had one drug-induced trip (that we know about).

the problem with that is you have to try it to really know that to be true. if you have a belief system to defend that contradicts taking aya becuase 'it must be bad for you' because 'its like all the other drugs' and it somehow cheating your way through on 'the journey towards enlightment', then you wont take it. i find this belief to be amusing and yet dull at the same time when its used to support an arguement that people should not take it. :)

[pinkfreud]

my 2nd time on acid i felt like wow this is my mind doing this not the drug, and i instantly knew that through breathing, meditation etc i would eventually be able to access similar states drug free. havent touched it since.

if there is one psychedelic drug i have always been very curious to try out, it has been acid. unfortunately, i dont know anybody here who does it, and im aware that you need mature people around you when you are tripping. ive also heard far off accounts of people who have had bad trips on acid, but i personally think you need to be ready to open your mind and your self before you try it.

is it really what it's made out to be though?

[spiritist]

Just to point out a few assumptions i think youve made.

1. that the 2 methods (with & without drugs) are mutually exclusive.

2. the issue of dependency.

I dont think you necessarily become reliant on psychedelics - the experience can be life-changing and prompt a person into new areas, like those you might suggest. eg. David Icke has only had one drug-induced trip (that we know about).

Take your point. Laughted at the last bit!

I would say that once you go down the road of advocating use of one type of drug then where exactly do you draw the line re what is a good drug and what is a bad one? Should we then advocate all drug use and watch the vulnerable in body and mind suffer? Drugs usually have an adverse reaction in a small minority of people. Are these people to be necessary casualties along the way. Drug use is an experiment and I would never advise anyone taking part in it. We have all the mechanisms we need to attain enlightenment within us. We do not need to import foreign substances to achieve this. It is a slippery road indeed.
Drugs can be controlled, our inner selves can never be.

[merlincove]

Originally Posted by spiritist
Ayahuasca removes the control you have over your mind. I would advise against using it. It seems to have become so fashionable at the moment, with the likes of Graham Hancock doing it - so he can sell more books from his experiences. Listening to him bang on about his Amazon sales one evening made me feel sad. But thats for another time. There are other ways to experience altered states of consciousness and the best one takes a long time to develop and that is acheived by self-discipline of the mind.

Ayahuasca is a fast track way to experiencing what exactly, since you dont have control of your mind properly, because you have given control over to the drug. This is so dumb. Tell me what tastes better. Instant coffee or fresh ground coffee? Same with attaining altered states of conscious. Don't use a drug as a quickener. Makes no sense. Always control your own mind at all times. The mind is amazing and requires no props.

Spiritist, yes there are other ways to experience altered states, many narcotics have been discussed, although meditation etc is a great vehicle toward higher understanding, sometimes we - as aspects of mother nature - need to touch base with that nature energy in order to experience things that meditative state can not afford us. And remember, all the shamen of the world work with plant medicines such as Ayahusca, the indigineous peoples of every continent, across Europe through Russia and Asia, Africa and Australia, the America's - all their healing men and medicine men / shamen work with potent plant medicines whose knowledge reaches back to the very dawn of time. Mans own ancestral knowledge goes back 750,000 years at best. Ayahuasca opens the doors to profound understanding.


No offense, but what a load of crap! If David Icke had not have taken ayawaska, he wouldn't have been given further understanding of the nature of reality.

i agree with you nwoexposer :-)

Ayahuasca is a natural prop, given to us by mother nature, to help us in expanding awareness and healing. i have worked as a shaman for many years, although i distinctly dislike the word shaman as i feel it is grossly misleading, and have imbibed Ayahuasca many times.

Ayahuasca was principally used in South America by shaman who, it is said, received the information on how to brew it from the Star People. The indigenous cultures of both North and South America have a very long historical connection with the Star People and see them as guides and helpers.

Essentially Ayahuasca is a medicine plant and is taken with great reverence and ritual, it is widely accepted that those who journey with this medicine do not so alone and that a medicine man or shaman be present to keep the journeyer safe. Ayahuasca is not profoundly dangerous, although she should always be treated with the up most respect; the considerations of ritual and protection are of great importance as you are opening up a doorway to profound understanding.

Ayahuasca will cleanse and purge the body in preparation for profound healing, and each individual will experience similar, although profoundly different, effects due to their own life paths. The purging essence is an essential part of the healing; where Ayahuasca takes you is a very pure place and to get there you need to be as pure as possible. The essential journey that Ayahuasca brings to us is a journey to commune with God / Great Creator - it may take many journeys before you reach this place of enlightenment, it may take one, depending on your own life journey and the information you most need at that time.

The important thing to understand is that once Ayahuasca has been imbibed, should your intention be to do so, one may journey within that same altered state while working with any of the plant kingdoms medicines, i.e. marijuana / mushrooms etc.

I was invited into the Ayahuasca ceremony many years ago as a part of my journey and evolution, and I chose to decline. I was visited that night by the energy of Ayahuasca who came to me as a beautiful female, perfect in every way, dressed in a long green gown, she beckoned to me and held out her hand. She returned every night until I finally attended a ceremony a few weeks later.

Ayahuasca is extremely powerful and very feminine in essence, her energy is beautiful and strong, and when one treats her with respect, her gifts are truly amazing. Anyone who consciously works with the plant kingdom, in medicine and respective ways, will find a great ally in Ayahuasca – however, male orientated energies who are overtly masculine may find Ayahuasca’ energy overtly powerful, to such a degree that they will be forced to understand the subtle vibrations inherent within their own psyche before she allows their continued progression. Without giving dominion to the feminine, but allowing her her sovereignty – in appreciating the strengths and the power of the feminine, in the same way one affords mother nature respect and honour, Ayahuasca will allow you to visit upon whatever realm of understanding you need, and affords herself as a truly, truly powerful ally.

But back to the thread…

I have found that alcohol and prepared narcotics all work on lower vibrational frequencies, and as such their affect upon the physical self is to descend its frequency into the lower vibrational realms.

From my own experience I have found that I can no longer drink alcohol, even the smallest shot now has a drastic affect on me physically.

I am not sure whether natural brewed ale, such as mead etc is any different, given that alcohol we buy has gone through many stages of preparation, and it may be the vibration of this process that causes alcohol to affect sensitive people the way that it does.

I am actually inclined toward that way of thinking, given that I have an acute intolerance to processed foods – when I eat natural organic food I am ok, give me anything that has gone through the process (sic) of processed manufacture and that negative vibration inherent within it reflects itself in specific ways.

From my own understanding I feel that ‘becoming’ a sensitive, or at least waking up to the fact of your own sensitivity to spirit, connects us with the Higher Self frequency, and creates a tangible link with divinity. When we as sensitive’s poison our bodies with lower vibrational frequencies, ie processed lower dimensional vibrations, it is akin to wrenching our higher vibrational physical form into the same vibrational frequencies – creating a physical condition such as hang over / illness etc.

It is, I guess, a part of the evolutionary shifts that we are undertaking, both singularly and collectively, we are moving away from those lower vibrational needs and desires that are in-effect poisoning our systems. And as we come to work within the higher realms of our physical condition our bodies will no longer perform within those lower realms – reflecting in the un-ability to filter those toxins etc.

But again, maybe linking in with nature and naturally prepared / home grown / brewed alcohol is an obvious replacement for all the mass manufactured rubbish?

It may very well be worth a try.

[armoured_amazon]

drugs such as aya are no more dependency inducing than say shopping tho. in fact i would say most of the hallucinogens are actually anti addictive and been used to good effect to treat dependencys on other drugs. after all they are ancient teachers who will allow you to learn to control your own consciousness to a level where you can actually reproduce the positive effects of the drug experience through meditative practice. my 2nd time on acid i felt like wow this is my mind doing this not the drug, and i instantly knew that through breathing, meditation etc i would eventually be able to access similar states drug free. havent touched it since.

Regardless, I wasn't born needing an external catalyst.

[whiterain]

yes you were. or do you neither eat or breath?

if you mean you could naturally find higher consciousness from an early age then i take my hat off to you in great envy :)

[pleasuredome]

Regardless, I wasn't born needing an external catalyst.

you're right, none of us need an external catalyst. but we can choose to have one if we feel it's right for ourself.

[armoured_amazon]

yes you were. or do you neither eat or breath?

if you mean you could naturally find higher consciousness from an early age then i take my hat off to you in great envy :)

Yes I always had it but it was nothing to envy, merely created a huge gulf between myself and everyone around me...apart from nature. I think if you cast your mind back you will realise you were in contact with higher consciousness from birth but it is society that cuts one off. :)

[pleasuredome]

I think if you cast your mind back you will realise you were in contact with higher consciousness from birth but it is society that cuts one off. :)

i think thats true. i think most people can cast there mind back to at least one moment in their childhood where they knew something without needing to understand it, think it through or study it. it's like it was easier to tap into a greater consciousness as a child without realising it

[armoured_amazon]

i think thats true. i think most people can cast there mind back to at least one moment in their childhood where they knew something without needing to understand it, think it through or study it. it's like it was easier to tap into a greater consciousness as a child without realising it

Definitely. :)

That state of consciousness and higher connection, before ego, self-importance and conditioning steps in to sever the soul-creator attachment is exactly what Jesus is talking about when he says "I can guarantee this truth: Unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven."

[belfast atheist]

been off drink for 3 weeks now. dont miss the hangovers

[pleasuredome]

Definitely. :)

That state of consciousness and higher connection, before ego, self-importance and conditioning steps in to sever the soul-creator attachment is exactly what Jesus is talking about when he says "I can guarantee this truth: Unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven."

exactly, hence coshh's favourite prayer. its all in the interpretation you know ;)

[armoured_amazon]

exactly, hence coshh's favourite prayer. its all in the interpretation you know ;)

:)

[dmt head]

you're right, none of us need an external catalyst. but we can choose to have one if we feel it's right for ourself.


Exactly, if its not good for you dont do it whats with all these preachy types telling you whats good for you??:rolleyes:

[pleasuredome]

whats with all these preachy types telling you whats good for you??:rolleyes:

i dont know, something to do with the 'process of enlightenment' :confused: :D

[kittytia]

i dont drink has much now i hate the hang overs it take me days now to get over a hang over most be my age lol

[dmt head]

i dont know, something to do with the 'process of enlightenment' :confused: :D


Aye their personal process, condescending others telling people what is and isnt the "process" I think the majority of people who do psychedelics arent as condescending as the people who are agianst them. Youd think these "enlightened" types would be a bit more open minded and eh generally nice about things, but na they have seem to have these big egos telling people how stupid they are! :rolleyes: People who take things really shouldnt have to explain themselves, its their personal process and some folks have this big attitude towards other folks methods of doing things because it isnt the same as theirs, psychological fascists I say! lol

[armoured_amazon]

Aye their personal process, condescending others telling people what is and isnt the "process" I think the majority of people who do psychedelics arent as condescending as the people who are agianst them. Youd think these "enlightened" types would be a bit more open minded and eh generally nice about things, but na they have seem to have these big egos telling people how stupid they are! :rolleyes: People who take things really shouldnt have to explain themselves, its their personal process and some folks have this big attitude towards other folks methods of doing things because it isnt the same as theirs, psychological fascists I say! lol

I'm not an advocate of encouraging drug use. Drug use in itself is a personal choice but those who indulge do not have the right to urge others to do it too, without people opposing their opinion.

[merlincove]

i dont know, something to do with the 'process of enlightenment' :confused: :D

Highs without toxic poisoning :-)

is it piote or ayahuasca that is banned in the states, except for tribal / spiritual use by the indigineous people?

Some will argue against its ban while others see that if it were freely available, then there would be a lot of screwed up people walking about, its the same for marajuana, it isn't so much that it opens doorways that gives 'them' reason to ban it, it is moreover that these things need to be taken with respect, particularly with respect for the Self, and there are very few people who have enough respect for themselves to take these highs responsibly.

:-)

[kblood]

The reason you still have cravings is because you are in a state of limbo. You are neither pushing hard towards health nor un-health. The original poster, for example, took Ayahuasca which is a powerful medicine just in terms of chemical composition. It tastes aweful to the average person, which means it's super powerful. Taking such a powerful medicine changed his body's cravings. It was a big push towards health --a step forward-- and now his body is reluctant to move in the opposite direction. It has adapted to this positive medicine and it likes it.

If he were to get heavily drunk one day, the body would start adapting again and he will get used to the poison, but he will be moving towards a state of unhealth.

If you want to get out of limbo, you start doing things that are battering rams towards health, such as eating perfectly, experimenting with herbs, and doing various cleanses such as bowel cleanse, which is most important.

I agree. Its not that I actually drink often though. About once a month mostly, and sometimes more when there are special occasions or the guys at work get me out for a drink some weekend. I usually decline though, but I like meeting new people there. Once a month there is a friday café at work, where there is free beer, wine, chips and also some good food and desert the same day before the cafe begins. I quite enjoy that, and unless I drink too much, I usually have a good day the day after, unless I go to bars or discos afterwards.

Some days I just feel like I need some cleansing though, and then I stop smoking and drinking for about 3-4 weeks, drink lots of water and add more fruit to my diet. That usually helps. I have tried reaching different states with the mind, without the use of drugs, and it confuses me sometimes. Opens me up to too much information, so I kind of like the affect of alcohol and such in moderate doses. Not that I dont like opening my mind, but I just dont want it to be constant. Everything with moderation. Not that I believe I would or could keep the mind open for several weeks at a time, but the occasional week of it or a few days at least is enough for me. I guess the rest of the time its just semi open.

[dmt head]

I'm not an advocate of encouraging drug use. Drug use in itself is a personal choice but those who indulge do not have the right to urge others to do it too, without people opposing their opinion.

I dont and this umbrella of "drug use" you say puts psychedelics under the same category as cocaine or heroin, psycheelics can be very beneficial for healing introspection and knowing yourself. Thats probably why they dont get used widespread in therapies because they can be a great tool, and the ptb dont want soultions do they.

I dont encourage people to take anything, means me and my friends have more for ourselves! :p Thought my girlfriend really benefitted from ayahuasca, after years on prozac, now she doesnt need them or want them thanks to aya. You wont get doctors prescribing good medications generally.

[armoured_amazon]

I dont and this umbrella of "drug use" you say puts psychedelics under the same category as cocaine or heroin, psycheelics can be very beneficial for healing introspection and knowing yourself. Thats probably why they dont get used widespread in therapies because they can be a great tool, and the ptb dont want soultions do they.

I dont encourage people to take anything, means me and my friends have more for ourselves! :p Thought my girlfriend really benefitted from ayahuasca, after years on prozac, now she doesnt need them or want them thanks to aya. You wont get doctors prescribing good medications generally.

But what you have to realise is, good experiences or not, different body chemistries react differently to the same thing. How would you feel knowing someone had a fatal reaction to something you had convinced them to try? I wouldn't want that on my conscience.

[whiterain]

if there is one psychedelic drug i have always been very curious to try out, it has been acid. unfortunately, i dont know anybody here who does it, and im aware that you need mature people around you when you are tripping. ive also heard far off accounts of people who have had bad trips on acid, but i personally think you need to be ready to open your mind and your self before you try it.

is it really what it's made out to be though?

hi, acid can be simply a nice relaxing experience such as a heavy weed smoking night. on the other hand it can be all that its made out to be and more. i tried it in order to get the visual effects that mushrooms had failed to acheive, and ended up with my spirit dragged from my body into other hallucinatory worlds eventually settling in a state of nirvana like bliss.

yes bad trips happen but these i feel are often the most useful as a learning tool. bad trips will show you the parts of your personality that have caused you to have these bad experiences thus enabling you to change things and grow.

its definately not for everyone and i would suggest to research and prepare first, but nothing can really prepare you for what may happen. i wasnt prepared in the slightest and im still here. as long as you are prepared to let go of fear and your own pre conceived ideas about yourself and reality then i would say go for it, but id suggest starting with some milder psychadelics like shrooms but its all relative i guess.

[whiterain]

Yes I always had it but it was nothing to envy, merely created a huge gulf between myself and everyone around me...apart from nature. I think if you cast your mind back you will realise you were in contact with higher consciousness from birth but it is society that cuts one off. :)

couldnt agree more- a blessing and a curse. yes certainly in dreams as a child at least

[talulah]

why would you think it to be a trap unless for some reason you know you arent being honest with yourself?

while i agree with you about developing your mind to experience what aya can give you, personally, i prefer to develop my own opinion on aya through first hand experience rather than take on someone else's opinion and repeat it. :)


What is this drug?Shamens would take salvia and other mind altering drugs to besome at one with the animals and plantlife and sprits around them.Is it like mescaline?It comes from a cactus plant.

[pleasuredome]

is it piote or ayahuasca that is banned in the states, except for tribal / spiritual use by the indigineous people?


i think they're both banned, except peyote for tribal use.

[pinkfreud]

hi, acid can be simply a nice relaxing experience such as a heavy weed smoking night. on the other hand it can be all that its made out to be and more. i tried it in order to get the visual effects that mushrooms had failed to acheive, and ended up with my spirit dragged from my body into other hallucinatory worlds eventually settling in a state of nirvana like bliss.

yes bad trips happen but these i feel are often the most useful as a learning tool. bad trips will show you the parts of your personality that have caused you to have these bad experiences thus enabling you to change things and grow.

its definately not for everyone and i would suggest to research and prepare first, but nothing can really prepare you for what may happen. i wasnt prepared in the slightest and im still here. as long as you are prepared to let go of fear and your own pre conceived ideas about yourself and reality then i would say go for it, but id suggest starting with some milder psychadelics like shrooms but its all relative i guess.

thanks whiterain. i have heard of people having those mind boggling trips they have never been able to explain. one of my close friends did it once and it seems like he matured immediately after, became peaceful and calm. i have heard beautiful descriptions of the soul exploring itself and that is exactly what got me highly curious. the very next morning, my friend told us he felt 'liberated' and humbled, and after a couple of weeks he left his job and started running an animal shelter outside my city. i've never seen him happier, and i know this could be termed as a 'shortcut', but i haven't even done weed, so im not sure how im gonna go about it.

so about the trip you had.. would you say it helped open your mind and your self to the possibilities out there?

[pleasuredome]

What is this drug?Shamens would take salvia and other mind altering drugs to besome at one with the animals and plantlife and sprits around them.Is it like mescaline?It comes from a cactus plant.

ayahuasca is has a similar effect to mescaline. traditionally comes from a vine that grows in the amazon mixed with leaves of a certain plant. the active chemicals are DMT and MAOI. DMT is already naturally found in the body. the dangerous part is if you take too much MAOI, and you would really have to take huge amounts of it to do any damage, just like a vitamin overdose can do the same, you know what i mean?? all natural and unprocessed or synthesised. been used for thousands of years.

[psych641]

ayahuasca is has a similar effect to mescaline. traditionally comes from a vine that grows in the amazon mixed with leaves of a certain plant. the active chemicals are DMT and MAOI. DMT is already naturally found in the body. the dangerous part is if you take too much MAOI, and you would really have to take huge amounts of it to do any damage, just like a vitamin overdose can do the same, you know what i mean?? all natural and unprocessed or synthesised. been used for thousands of years.

MAOI is an effect rather than a drug, which is harmaline, and its relatives. MonoAmine Oxidase Inhibitor - any chemical that stops you producing a particular digestive enzyme that destroys certain substances. This means some drugs (eg DMT) become active orally, some get a LOT stronger, and in extreme cases normally safe foods can become deadly. Harmaline does have mild effects on its own, so its more than just an MAOI. The MAOI effect, although extremely powerful doesnt last as long as with other chems (eg. old-school psychiatric drugs) which is probably why you dont hear about people getting critically ill after having traces of bananas & coffee etc.

Traditional aya can also contain nightshades like datura, which is extremely dangerous in unskilled hands. Does anyone know why they do that? Surely its plenty strong already. :confused:

back on topic - my abstinence continues :)

[whiterain]

thanks whiterain. i have heard of people having those mind boggling trips they have never been able to explain. one of my close friends did it once and it seems like he matured immediately after, became peaceful and calm. i have heard beautiful descriptions of the soul exploring itself and that is exactly what got me highly curious. the very next morning, my friend told us he felt 'liberated' and humbled, and after a couple of weeks he left his job and started running an animal shelter outside my city. i've never seen him happier, and i know this could be termed as a 'shortcut', but i haven't even done weed, so im not sure how im gonna go about it.

so about the trip you had.. would you say it helped open your mind and your self to the possibilities out there?

well your friend certainly sounds like a good place to start. yes there are masive parts i still cant quite recall or integrate yet and i can see how it could be damaging for some but i would never go back and decline the experience. personally i dont see whats wrong with shortcuts, after all its still your consciousness doing the work.

erowid.org is a great site for peoples recollections of their experiences, to see if its something you reckon would be right for you.

the thing is when i took acid i wasnt into all this nature of reality stuff or the conspiracy stuff so i cant tell whether being into this kind of thing would make you more prone to paranoia or not. even despite this i was very prone to paranoia as deep down i knew that things were not quite right, but even intense, death-like paranoia can be an amazing thing to work through.

perhaps the next time i take something similar i will blow my mind even more but hey thats my risk

[merlincove]

thanks whiterain. i have heard of people having those mind boggling trips they have never been able to explain. one of my close friends did it once and it seems like he matured immediately after, became peaceful and calm. i have heard beautiful descriptions of the soul exploring itself and that is exactly what got me highly curious. the very next morning, my friend told us he felt 'liberated' and humbled, and after a couple of weeks he left his job and started running an animal shelter outside my city. i've never seen him happier, and i know this could be termed as a 'shortcut', but i haven't even done weed, so im not sure how im gonna go about it.

so about the trip you had.. would you say it helped open your mind and your self to the possibilities out there?

i hadn't tried weed till i was well into my 20's, and i think it has the ability to screw things up a bit - i see a lot of my kids' friends taking it and they are all pretty screwed up, so maybe it is something that is better left until you have a better handle on who you are personally?

Acid, in my eyes is poison - and that may be hypocritical of me, banging on about ayahaska etc, but the more manufactured it is the more likely it is to mess things up, imho.

i love your story about your friend, that is very touching. thanjk you for sharing that pinkfreud :-)

re the shortcut thing, are thjere really any shortcuts? Ayahuasca kinda links you in with who you are, when we are forced to forget in the chaos of the world - that sometimes happens :-)

if it is ment to happen it will happen, does that make it a shortcut? When you drive to work every day, do you go the long way around because you might see something that may benefit you?

i am not advocating Ayahuasca to anyone, it is out there and should you wish to try it out i am sure that you will find it - the choice is essentialy your own with your own comfort zone as the best judge. if you are going to take anything, do it responsibly, like i said earlier - Ayahuaska is a natural plant tea brewed from two elements, one bark and one root, although many Ayahuasca ceremonies themselves work with either the bark or the root singularly, Acid is whatever they decide to put in there when its mixed and cut. At the end of the day, don't abuse your body and it wont abuse you.

But it sounds like your friend really found something that was not only important but alsop very tangible to him. :-)

[pinkfreud]

well your friend certainly sounds like a good place to start. yes there are masive parts i still cant quite recall or integrate yet and i can see how it could be damaging for some but i would never go back and decline the experience. personally i dont see whats wrong with shortcuts, after all its still your consciousness doing the work.

erowid.org is a great site for peoples recollections of their experiences, to see if its something you reckon would be right for you.

the thing is when i took acid i wasnt into all this nature of reality stuff or the conspiracy stuff so i cant tell whether being into this kind of thing would make you more prone to paranoia or not. even despite this i was very prone to paranoia as deep down i knew that things were not quite right, but even intense, death-like paranoia can be an amazing thing to work through.

perhaps the next time i take something similar i will blow my mind even more but hey thats my risk

i'll check out that link. thanks whiterain... i hope it's alright to pm if i need to ask something. take care.

[pleasuredome]

Traditional aya can also contain nightshades like datura, which is extremely dangerous in unskilled hands. Does anyone know why they do that? Surely its plenty strong already. :confused:


ive never heard of people using that in aya, and i've no idea why they would want to. its strength depends on how much mimosa, caapi, rue etc you're using.

[whiterain]

i hadn't tried weed till i was well into my 20's, and i think it has the ability to screw things up a bit - i see a lot of my kids' friends taking it and they are all pretty screwed up, so maybe it is something that is better left until you have a better handle on who you are personally?

Acid, in my eyes is poison - and that may be hypocritical of me, banging on about ayahaska etc, but the more manufactured it is the more likely it is to mess things up, imho.

i love your story about your friend, that is very touching. thanjk you for sharing that pinkfreud :-)

re the shortcut thing, are thjere really any shortcuts? Ayahuasca kinda links you in with who you are, when we are forced to forget in the chaos of the world - that sometimes happens :-)

if it is ment to happen it will happen, does that make it a shortcut? When you drive to work every day, do you go the long way around because you might see something that may benefit you?

i am not advocating Ayahuasca to anyone, it is out there and should you wish to try it out i am sure that you will find it - the choice is essentialy your own with your own comfort zone as the best judge. if you are going to take anything, do it responsibly, like i said earlier - Ayahuaska is a natural plant tea brewed from two elements, one bark and one root, although many Ayahuasca ceremonies themselves work with either the bark or the root singularly, Acid is whatever they decide to put in there when its mixed and cut. At the end of the day, don't abuse your body and it wont abuse you.

But it sounds like your friend really found something that was not only important but alsop very tangible to him. :-)

i agree id much rather try something less manufactured than acid. it just makes me skeptical that there are so many natural plant teachers why do we need to synthesise one? apart from for ease of portability and how long it will keep for.


pinkfreud yeah anytime ill try to help. just posting in threads here will probly be far more helpful tho as theres loads here with much greater experience than me

[pinkfreud]

i hadn't tried weed till i was well into my 20's, and i think it has the ability to screw things up a bit - i see a lot of my kids' friends taking it and they are all pretty screwed up, so maybe it is something that is better left until you have a better handle on who you are personally?

Acid, in my eyes is poison - and that may be hypocritical of me, banging on about ayahaska etc, but the more manufactured it is the more likely it is to mess things up, imho.

i love your story about your friend, that is very touching. thanjk you for sharing that pinkfreud :-)

re the shortcut thing, are thjere really any shortcuts? Ayahuasca kinda links you in with who you are, when we are forced to forget in the chaos of the world - that sometimes happens :-)

if it is ment to happen it will happen, does that make it a shortcut? When you drive to work every day, do you go the long way around because you might see something that may benefit you?

i am not advocating Ayahuasca to anyone, it is out there and should you wish to try it out i am sure that you will find it - the choice is essentialy your own with your own comfort zone as the best judge. if you are going to take anything, do it responsibly, like i said earlier - Ayahuaska is a natural plant tea brewed from two elements, one bark and one root, although many Ayahuasca ceremonies themselves work with either the bark or the root singularly, Acid is whatever they decide to put in there when its mixed and cut. At the end of the day, don't abuse your body and it wont abuse you.

But it sounds like your friend really found something that was not only important but alsop very tangible to him. :-)

thanks merlin. yup, i know lsd isn't as natural as weed, ayahuasca et al, but it is derived from a grain fungus that typically grows on rye. so although acid is its synthesized form, i dont think it is as chemical as coke or even e.

i know where you are coming from though. i have never wanted to spiral downwards into that pit by using drugs, but at the same time i know where to draw the line. if i am seeking an experience, it is because i feel the need to explore the realms out there rather than do it just for the sake of getting high. i know i sound cuckoo right now, but yup aquarians aren't well known for not trying shit out =| i will weigh the pros and cons, and though ayahuasca sounds promising i dont think it's available here in india.

glad to know you found my friend's story somewhat inspiring :) he's extremely calm and humane, reminds me of a neo-buddha lol. i personally think he was somewhat prepared for it, he was heavily into spirituality and meditation before he did it, and i think if not misused, it can actually guide you. i may be wrong here, so please... someone correct me if i am :o

i think im deviating from this thread topic, sorry for that.

[psych641]

Youve got big purity issues with acid, which is why il never take it again. Originally it would be pure LSD-25 (or possibly something else like ALD-52, but clean)

Now its produced in different routes/methods and you often get a 'dirty' mixture of different alkaloids - byproducts, stereoisomers etc. Acid accounts for the vast majority of cases where people suffer long term effects that dont go away (HPPD) - shrooms are much safer, keep it natural imo :)

[merlincove]

i wrote that wrongly, so appologies - ayahuasca is a tea brewed from the ayahuasca vine and leafs from Chacruna plant, they are found about 50 mioles apart. Many ayahuasca ceremonoies work individually with the ayahuasca vine, root or leaf or the chacru leaf, and even variants of them. ie chacru leaf / root / bark and aya leaf / root / bark.

i am not sure about what effect these variants bring in as i have only worked with traditional aya bark / skin and chacruna root and leaf.

Traditionally there is a long ceremony and singing and giving thanks and honour to the plants, then there is the brewing of the tea which again requires a whole load of singing and generally getting into the vibe of it. You kinda put yourself in a certain place before hand, a certain mind set. And then you drink the tea, usually only a very small cup, and usually - altho not always - you are ill for about a half hour! it is at this point that you go through a 'cleansing' period where the body instinctively tries to get rid of the tea, along with any negative vibrations - you quite literally go through an intense detox. The more you get used to it the less cleansing goes on, and the more ayahuasca energy you are able to keep in. There is, again in the traditional sense, a month or more - depending on each individual - of intense detoxing, no meat, no alcahol - the purer the food the better, as a build up to it, before the ceremony. That's the traditional, peruvian, way at least - and the only one that i have experienced.

hope that clarifies ;-)

[pleasuredome]

i think im deviating from this thread topic, sorry for that.

dont worry, it already happened a few pages back by one of our 'enlightened ones' ;) :D

[merlincove]

Whoops :o

yeah, alcahol, nasty stuff ;) (shudders....)

[dmt head]

But what you have to realise is, good experiences or not, different body chemistries react differently to the same thing. How would you feel knowing someone had a fatal reaction to something you had convinced them to try? I wouldn't want that on my conscience.

I dont try and convince anyone to try anything, though id reccomend cappi to everyone, and you dont die from ayahuasca or smoking dmt. In saying that I do try and convince people to smoke dmt but thats not toxic, your not going to have an adverse reaction, you might think you died but youll be back in 5-10 minutes. You can meet god on these things armoured maybe you should try these things being a christian and all. Just a thought! Id love christians to smoke dmt or take ayahuasca. You could go to santo daime, they have aya ceremonys and there christians.


ive never heard of people using that in aya, and i've no idea why they would want to. its strength depends on how much mimosa, caapi, rue etc you're using.

Ive heard of lots of tribes using all sorts of different things in their brews, datura included. I imagine if you did the brew would have some of the datura spirit.

[tomo]

i think thats true. i think most people can cast there mind back to at least one moment in their childhood where they knew something without needing to understand it, think it through or study it. it's like it was easier to tap into a greater consciousness as a child without realising it

its funny you say that because i seem to understand just about everything but cant explain with words.. im not illiterate but i seem to have this higher understanding of things...


if this doesn't make sense, i completely understand :confused::D

[pleasuredome]

Ive heard of lots of tribes using all sorts of different things in their brews, datura included. I imagine if you did the brew would have some of the datura spirit.

i only use banisteriopis caapi vine with mimosa hostilis :)

[pleasuredome]

its funny you say that because i seem to understand just about everything but cant explain with words.. im not illiterate but i seem to have this higher understanding of things...


if this doesn't make sense, i completely understand :confused::D

it makes perfect sense ;) :cool:

[whiterain]

I dont try and convince anyone to try anything, though id reccomend cappi to everyone, and you dont die from ayahuasca or smoking dmt. In saying that I do try and convince people to smoke dmt but thats not toxic, your not going to have an adverse reaction, you might think you died but youll be back in 5-10 minutes. You can meet god on these things armoured maybe you should try these things being a christian and all. Just a thought! Id love christians to smoke dmt or take ayahuasca. You could go to santo daime, they have aya ceremonys and there christians.




Ive heard of lots of tribes using all sorts of different things in their brews, datura included. I imagine if you did the brew would have some of the datura spirit.

whats the caapi like on its own mr head? ive heard alot of recommendations. is it a mild intro to aya? how would you compare it to shrooms?

[dmt head]

whats the caapi like on its own mr head? ive heard alot of recommendations. is it a mild intro to aya? how would you compare it to shrooms?

I wouldnt say its that similiar too mushrooms, though at high doses it can be quite trippy, not very visual, though at high doses I have had tracers and things but not like mushrooms. Have had some third eye activity, one time it was quite intense but again not like mushrooms, I had the feeling that I was surrounded by dancing woman, and I could see them out of the corners of my eyes, had similiar expreriences with smoked dmt but I could actually really see these dancing old hippy type woman, or so it seemed to me, jumping into my body and filling me with love, though I cant be certain if its the same spirits, but they were similiar.

Id advise taking the cappi by itsself a good few times before taking chacruna or chaliponga, or mimosa, the dmt containing plants. It gets you used to that space and youll know when your maybe ready to add some dmt, id start low though, im always very precise with my doses, but ive had a lot of bad luck with the chali and the chacruna :( Mimosas a bit of a guarantee though for the dmt working, plus taht with rue is really cheap comapred to the vine but I dont think you get the healing benefits from the mimosa the same way as you do with the vine.

Vine only brews are the best place to start imo

[whiterain]

cheers. theres just so many plants and mixes its tricky to have any idea where to go next

[pleasuredome]

I wouldnt say its that similiar too mushrooms, though at high doses it can be quite trippy, not very visual, though at high doses I have had tracers and things but not like mushrooms. Have had some third eye activity, one time it was quite intense but again not like mushrooms, I had the feeling that I was surrounded by dancing woman, and I could see them out of the corners of my eyes, had similiar expreriences with smoked dmt but I could actually really see these dancing old hippy type woman, or so it seemed to me, jumping into my body and filling me with love, though I cant be certain if its the same spirits, but they were similiar.

Id advise taking the cappi by itsself a good few times before taking chacruna or chaliponga, or mimosa, the dmt containing plants. It gets you used to that space and youll know when your maybe ready to add some dmt, id start low though, im always very precise with my doses, but ive had a lot of bad luck with the chali and the chacruna :( Mimosas a bit of a guarantee though for the dmt working, plus taht with rue is really cheap comapred to the vine but I dont think you get the healing benefits from the mimosa the same way as you do with the vine.

Vine only brews are the best place to start imo

good advice. ive tried the chacruna and i didnt think much too it. a bit messy to cook too.

[jumangi]

since starting my sessions of ayahuasca, i've really get this aversion to alcohol now. its not that i dont like it, ive always liked a beer and red wine, it just this strong feeling not to put alcohol in my system.

i dont believe that its the aya itself thats done it, but maybe just a change in my perception. neither would it follow that you need aya for a change in perception like this.

has anyone else felt the same way, and not just because you read that alcohol might be bad for you?


when i first read this post i thought it was about yoga or some kind of meditation or something! thanks for making me look up something else to educate myself!!

[talulah]

when i first read this post i thought it was about yoga or some kind of meditation or something! thanks for making me look up something else to educate myself!!
How what is this thing?I dont know much about it.:(

[talulah]

ayahuasca is has a similar effect to mescaline. traditionally comes from a vine that grows in the amazon mixed with leaves of a certain plant. the active chemicals are DMT and MAOI. DMT is already naturally found in the body. the dangerous part is if you take too much MAOI, and you would really have to take huge amounts of it to do any damage, just like a vitamin overdose can do the same, you know what i mean?? all natural and unprocessed or synthesised. been used for thousands of years.

Right!im gona look into it,thankyou.Aparentley when taking mescaline the user goes over to the spirit world,so ive been told.but this was only one persons experience of it.:)

[mushroombot]

How what is this thing?I dont know much about it.:(

Have you seen the David Icke presentations (3 parts) where he talks about his experience in the Amazon rainforest. He talks of taking ayahuasca with a very good in depth explanation of the experience.

I dont know a great deal about it but from what I understand, it is a profound experience with users reporting a similar experience.

Have a look for Terrence Mckenna vids on youtube. If you like, I'll have a look for a relevant link.

Theres a lot of people talking about it on the forums, I've never managed to get any:( Came close in Glastonbury festie with some guy shouting he'd got dmt (which is similar i think) He went off to get it but I lost him in the crowds.

[delamo1999]

I hate putting alcohol in my system but it helps me get rid of social inhibitions. The ultimate solution would be to find something that can help get rid of social fears and be spontaneous. Anyone know of such a substance as a healthier alternative to alcohol?


Yes I do.

Meditation.

:)

[talulah]

Have you seen the David Icke presentations (3 parts) where he talks about his experience in the Amazon rainforest. He talks of taking ayahuasca with a very good in depth explanation of the experience.

I dont know a great deal about it but from what I understand, it is a profound experience with users reporting a similar experience.

Have a look for Terrence Mckenna vids on youtube. If you like, I'll have a look for a relevant link.

Theres a lot of people talking about it on the forums, I've never managed to get any:( Came close in Glastonbury festie with some guy shouting he'd got dmt (which is similar i think) He went off to get it but I lost him in the crowds.

Thankyou hun,il check out the David icke presentations.That terrence Mckenna is "out there".Ive read about him before too,but if you could check that out for me it would be sound,cheers;)

[red_ram]

Have you seen the David Icke presentations (3 parts) where he talks about his experience in the Amazon rainforest. He talks of taking ayahuasca with a very good in depth explanation of the experience.

I dont know a great deal about it but from what I understand, it is a profound experience with users reporting a similar experience.

Have a look for Terrence Mckenna vids on youtube. If you like, I'll have a look for a relevant link.

Theres a lot of people talking about it on the forums, I've never managed to get any:( Came close in Glastonbury festie with some guy shouting he'd got dmt (which is similar i think) He went off to get it but I lost him in the crowds.

All the experiences I have read about ayahuasca have led to me being rather confused as to whether it can really help one to cross over this veil of reality or whether it amplifies images of the subconscious.

There is David's experience of being reunited with infinity, then another I read where the taker experienced being surrounded by demons. Another account is of shamans using it to be able to see inside the bodies of sick people and see the ailments inside.

[talulah]

All the experiences I have read about ayahuasca have led to me being rather confused as to whether it can really help one to cross over this veil of reality or whether it amplifies images of the subconscious.

There is David's experience of being reunited with infinity, then another I read where the taker experienced being surrounded by demons. Another account is of shamans using it to be able to see inside the bodies of sick people and see the ailments inside.

Thats intresting.Maybe it depends on the user and the frame of mind.Where can i find this plant/substance?

[mushroombot]

Thats intresting.Maybe it depends on the user and the frame of mind.Where can i find this plant/substance?

Top question:D

[talulah]

Top question:D

Mmmm il get my sources on it asap,if you find anything keep me posted:D

[mushroombot]

I can recommend this book - :

True Hallucinations: Being an Account of the Author's Extraordinary Adventures in the Devil's Paradise: Amazon.co.uk: Terence McKenna: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51gQr1DXMfL.@@AMEPARAM@@51gQr1DXMfL

Give this a look as well.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[mushroombot]

All the experiences I have read about ayahuasca have led to me being rather confused as to whether it can really help one to cross over this veil of reality or whether it amplifies images of the subconscious.

There is David's experience of being reunited with infinity, then another I read where the taker experienced being surrounded by demons. Another account is of shamans using it to be able to see inside the bodies of sick people and see the ailments inside.

There seems to be a few variations on the mixture from what I understand. Also, the preparation can be easily botched and the dose can be difficult to gage. Its a case of hooking up with someone who really knows there stuff.

[merlincove]

There seems to be a few variations on the mixture from what I understand. Also, the preparation can be easily botched and the dose can be difficult to gage. Its a case of hooking up with someone who really knows there stuff.

Tis best to do it with someone who has worked with ayahuasca before and has an extensive knowledge of the plants and prep's.

There are a few places you can go, though it is pretty expensive.

You shopuld never do ayahuasca alone - it is always good to have a guide when you go journeying to places you have never been before.

[tyler]

Never mind all this nonsense about this latest trendy drug. Drugs do not give permanent transcendance. Staying off alcohol will increase your awareness and make you a more effective warrior against the NWO.

If you have a problem with alcohol there are many places to seek help. The hardest part is accepting that you do have a problem.

[cheeney1]

Plus its gettin too expensive now brew, your own or just drink tea

[merlincove]

Never mind all this nonsense about this latest trendy drug. Drugs do not give permanent transcendance. Staying off alcohol will increase your awareness and make you a more effective warrior against the NWO.

If you have a problem with alcohol there are many places to seek help. The hardest part is accepting that you do have a problem.

Spot on Tyler :D it is a low vibrational frequency, coupled with all the poisons they put in there, preservatives, nasty sugars, flavours etc. It will lower your vibration.

Brewing your own is without doubt a whole lot healthier.

[dmt head]

There seems to be a few variations on the mixture from what I understand. Also, the preparation can be easily botched and the dose can be difficult to gage. Its a case of hooking up with someone who really knows there stuff.

Its easy to brew up, really is though id aim low to begin with, then you know where your at and gauge how deep you want to go.

I personally dont think its completely necessary to take it with a shamen, I was lucky I got talking to someone from the ayahuasca forums now there one of my best friends but he isnt that experienced either, hed just been doing it alone. Ive heard shamens saying oh no never do it without the supervision of a shamen and ive also heard of shamens being pleased that westerners are doing it themselves so its like theres not any set rules, even with differnt tribes/shamens.

And me being in a city in the Uk and not having a lot of money to go to south america for ceremonys and im wanting to work with these plants means im going to, but whatevers right for you.

Isnt as hard to make the brew as youd imagine, I mean all you really need is cappi then the dmt plants, chacruna, chaliponga or mimosa, though some people say you shouldnt mix the mimosa with cappi as the mimosas a desert plant and the cappis a jungle plant, and they dont go as well as the chacruna or chaliponga with the cappi. Thats why a lot of people mix syrian rue (its a desert plant) with mimosa, its an maoi like the cappi.

Rue and mimosa are a cheaper orally active dmt trip then you have the cappi which I much prefer with the chaliponga or chacruna, thats basically the two different mixes.

Some tribes just take cappi, as some say thats the true spirit of the ayahuasca certainly seems that way as far as healing goes imo As id advised earlier in the thread start with cappi, its a medicine and your not going to freak out on it or anything at the start and itll give you a feel for it. Just buy a big batch of cappi and start from there, thats basically ayahuasca, could be the beggining of a beautiful relationship ;) And if you want brewing tips im happy to help! :)

[masonicboom]

For those of you who know me,
I seem to have a problem with the Beer and not being able to NOt drink it.
So I am on my 9th light beer and feel as if I have had one.
I would like to go into a treatment facility for a week or two, but they wouldn't even take me when I was on METH, HEROIN, COCAINE, and MARIJUANA + more. Soooooo.
I guess my will-power is VERY weak now but that could be because I have no support. Before My best friend moved to Iowa, I had it beat, but he was my only friend here in Phoenix and now that he moved and was arrested by the FEDS and imprisoned for long enough I will never see him again, I drink. Fuck It !! Who Fucking gives a shit.
Anyone know a reqalistic without the typo solutioon to this problem?? also please check out:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=634974#post634974

Please download this .RAR archive of a RARE cassette which I have digitized for YOU. It has almost slipped out of existence and It was my duty to preserve it before I died and for all I know the artists are no longer as no info can be found about them - GARDEN - GREENHOUSE

[pleasuredome]

though some people say you shouldnt mix the mimosa with cappi as the mimosas a desert plant and the cappis a jungle plant, and they dont go as well as the chacruna or chaliponga with the cappi. Thats why a lot of people mix syrian rue (its a desert plant) with mimosa, its an maoi like the cappi.



what is the noticable difference between using caapi + mimosa and rue + mimosa?

[mushroombot]

Its easy to brew up, really is though id aim low to begin with, then you know where your at and gauge how deep you want to go.

I personally dont think its completely necessary to take it with a shamen, I was lucky I got talking to someone from the ayahuasca forums now there one of my best friends but he isnt that experienced either, hed just been doing it alone. Ive heard shamens saying oh no never do it without the supervision of a shamen and ive also heard of shamens being pleased that westerners are doing it themselves so its like theres not any set rules, even with differnt tribes/shamens.

And me being in a city in the Uk and not having a lot of money to go to south america for ceremonys and im wanting to work with these plants means im going to, but whatevers right for you.

Isnt as hard to make the brew as youd imagine, I mean all you really need is cappi then the dmt plants, chacruna, chaliponga or mimosa, though some people say you shouldnt mix the mimosa with cappi as the mimosas a desert plant and the cappis a jungle plant, and they dont go as well as the chacruna or chaliponga with the cappi. Thats why a lot of people mix syrian rue (its a desert plant) with mimosa, its an maoi like the cappi.

Rue and mimosa are a cheaper orally active dmt trip then you have the cappi which I much prefer with the chaliponga or chacruna, thats basically the two different mixes.

Some tribes just take cappi, as some say thats the true spirit of the ayahuasca certainly seems that way as far as healing goes imo As id advised earlier in the thread start with cappi, its a medicine and your not going to freak out on it or anything at the start and itll give you a feel for it. Just buy a big batch of cappi and start from there, thats basically ayahuasca, could be the beggining of a beautiful relationship ;) And if you want brewing tips im happy to help! :)

Thanks for the info. If you do have any tips on ordering and preparation I would be very interested. From what I understand, it is something I feel I'm ready for.

[dmt head]

what is the noticable difference between using caapi + mimosa and rue + mimosa?

Ive not tried mimosa with cappi yet, been meaning to but not had the chance, my friend has though and he said they just dont seem as synergistic as the chacruna. A lot of folks on the ayahuasca forums are totally against it whereas some do do it. Im going to do it as its a bit of a gurantee of dmt activation compared to the hit or miss with the chacruna.

Thanks for the info. If you do have any tips on ordering and preparation I would be very interested. From what I understand, it is something I feel I'm ready for.

Check out www.maya-ethnobotanicals.com good supplier, their shredded white vine is good value and quite potent. All you do is soak it for 24hrs in 3litres of water with say 500g of cappi with 90ml of cider vinegar, then the next day brew it for 3 hours down to a small amount filter through a tshirt saving the little at the bottom and repeat another few times, I usually do it 4-5 times but 3 shopuld be fine, then reduce what you have left from all the filters to drinkable amounts, thats it. :)

[pleasuredome]

Ive not tried mimosa with cappi yet, been meaning to but not had the chance, my friend has though and he said they just dont seem as synergistic as the chacruna. A lot of folks on the ayahuasca forums are totally against it whereas some do do it. Im going to do it as its a bit of a gurantee of dmt activation compared to the hit or miss with the chacruna.



Check out www.maya-ethnobotanicals.com good supplier, their shredded white vine is good value and quite potent. All you do is soak it for 24hrs in 3litres of water with say 500g of cappi with 90ml of cider vinegar, then the next day brew it for 3 hours down to a small amount filter through a tshirt saving the little at the bottom and repeat another few times, I usually do it 4-5 times but 3 shopuld be fine, then reduce what you have left from all the filters to drinkable amounts, thats it. :)

ive been quite happy with mimosa + caapi, but i'll definately give rue + mimosa a try sometime. :cool:

[psych641]

i love how a thread about alcohol has unashamedly turned into the intricacies of aya brewing :D

[the itinerant shrubber]

I'm drinking Navy Rum straight up as I type.
I'm trying to teach my liver not to be such a pussy.:cool:

[gribz]

I still like the odd glass or 2, but do want to chuck it in completely, I agree, it's sheep medicine, another tool to control the masses..:mad:

Disagree, when ever i have a hangover im the opposite, i want to research more and more and its the 1 thing that helps me beat the depression that alcohol causes.


To be honest if i have a proper drink it takes me 3-4 days to get over it but i think it really messes with your mind too. I notice paranoia and depression creeping in

This is how i feel.

[cheeney1]

Alcohol nearly destroyed my life, I'm very lucky i'm not in a Pine Box came close but No Ciggar fortuntely

[sunya]

Serious question to the tripsters in this thread (lol, most of you):

I'm not going to use the word alcoholic because I think I've always been too self-analytical to completely cede control to it, but anyway, I used to be an every day guy, now I'm an every 4/5 days guy, but it's still a dependency. I'm an experienced tripper. Shall I do DIY ayahuasca to fix this thing that I genuinely want to fix?

[ceti]

I'm drinking Navy Rum straight up as I type.
I'm trying to teach my liver not to be such a pussy.:cool:

good lad round and round we go about this being bad and that yet many people gladly injest coffee or any other poisen its only now the collective hive mind is saying ban drink drink its the devil it becomes a problem there are alot worse problems then someone who enjoys a drink my mother fucked up on drink i will probebly end up the same but in honesty as long as you dont cause harm to others there is no harm its a matter of choice i am enjoying my can now be it a mind altering whatever that controls and destroys and is the root of blah blah no its not its a drink been done since the dawn of time it all depends of the person tbh.:eek:

[ceti]

I still like the odd glass or 2, but do want to chuck it in completely, I agree, it's sheep medicine, another tool to control the masses..

no thats flouride nothing wrong with drinking alcohol it makes me veiw my oppinons to a group without fear nothing to do with violence or making a scence like i say used for donkeys if its so wrong why does david drink a can between shows is he a sheep as well.this shit talk is getting out of hand soon coffe drinkers will be sheep then if you smoke or if you like to anything you dont enjoy they are sheep its all about division really isnt it.:eek:

[sunya]

I still like the odd glass or 2, but do want to chuck it in completely, I agree, it's sheep medicine, another tool to control the masses..

no thats flouride nothing wrong with drinking alcohol it makes me veiw my oppinons to a group without fear nothing to do with violence or making a scence like i say used for donkeys if its so wrong why does david drink a can between shows is he a sheep as well.this shit talk is getting out of hand soon coffe drinkers will be sheep then if you smoke or if you like to anything you dont enjoy they are sheep its all about division really isnt it.:eek:

You're pissed aren't you son.

[ceti]

You're pissed aren't you son.

im getting there but im not liking the gang up mentality that goes on in here having a beer does not make anybody a sheep.

[sunya]

im getting there but im not liking the gang up mentality that goes on in here having a beer does not make anybody a sheep.

S'alright mate I'm having wine. I think I'm feeling more guilty about it than you are though. :o

[ceti]

S'alright mate I'm having wine. I think I'm feeling more guilty about it than you are though. :o

only gonna feel guilty because it is being made into dogma alcohol is for losers and low life`s etc not really you know what most the free thinkers and good people around today boy do they enjoy a drink like the rest of us.

[ceti]

sorry for the rant mate have your wine and feel no shame its your life do what you please.i am guess im a sheep.

without a few beers i would not have met some of infact most of the good honest caring people in my life if i was sat at home arguing about how wrong beer is i would not have had the times ive had fell in love etc beer can and will allways be a way of social gathering until the day mushies are avalible in a bar its about all we got.

[sunya]

sorry for the rant mate have your wine and feel no shame its your life do what you please.i am guess im a sheep.

without a few beers i would not have met some of infact most of the good honest caring people in my life if i was sat at home arguing about how wrong beer is i would not have had the times ive had fell in love etc beer can and will allways be a way of social gathering until the day mushies are avalible in a bar its about all we got.

Although it's something I want to get rid of and get more productive I agree with you on the social aspect. Many many friendships would not have been made without the evil ethanol.

[psych641]

I suspect beer contains significant levels of cannabinoids* in addition to ethanol. Drink vodka or something one night & see if you still feel as chatty, get the munchies etc.

*hops is the closest relative to cannabis & has a very mild psychoactive effects

[masonicboom]

I suspect beer contains significant levels of cannabinoids* in addition to ethanol. Drink vodka or something one night & see if you still feel as chatty, get the munchies etc.

*hops is the closest relative to cannabis & has a very mild psychoactive effects

If only I was so fucking luck, but not so and I am signing off and painstakingly changing all my email notification of posts to NO EMAIL !!! I can't take 1,000 emails per day when I am this sick die to not having any smoke for over 6 months and so the conspiracy gets what they want I drink they're fuicking beer and get sick and depressed and thats avout the fucking end and I dont think i will bother to correct nmyf fucking tyooos

[masonicboom]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunya View Post
You're pissed aren't you son.


YES

[the itinerant shrubber]

Some of the worlds greatest literature and art has been produced under alcoholic intoxication.

Famous boozers:
John Bonham
Keith Moon
Oliver Reed
Stephen King
Peter Cook

Adolph Hitler-tee-totaler.

Humans were fermenting grain long before we invented bread.

Elephants will travel hundreds of miles to seek out fermenting fruit to get drunk on.

Booze has helped mankind to progress spiritually and creatively just as much as all the other intoxicants over the millenia.

It does the soul good to just get absolutely cunted once in awhile

[sunya]

Hey! Stop justifying it!

I want to stop cunting my liver!

[dmt head]

Serious question to the tripsters in this thread (lol, most of you):

I'm not going to use the word alcoholic because I think I've always been too self-analytical to completely cede control to it, but anyway, I used to be an every day guy, now I'm an every 4/5 days guy, but it's still a dependency. I'm an experienced tripper. Shall I do DIY ayahuasca to fix this thing that I genuinely want to fix?

You could, they give it to heroin addicts in the santo daime in Holland (christian mob who drink aya) It would make you loook at yourself and it might help you make these changes yourself, after all its you that has to do the work. I also drink too much myself, hopefully one day it could help me in that sense too, really helps me with my diet, thats the biggest change its had on me. I know I drink too much and when I take aya im like, im going to hit that on the head but I never do, think I need a stronger dose lol

[lewi]

It will be banned soon dont worry ;)

The agenda rolls on :p

:eek:

[devyn]

Nothing wrong with getting drunk every now and then, but if you can't handle alcohol or are an angry drunk that's when you should really think about stopping or cutting back.

Has anyone tried smoking Anadenanthera colubrina seeds with an MAOI? I tried a mix of 4 seeds and some passion flower which is a weak MAOI, and some amanita muscaria mushroom and some cannabis. It was a nice mix, had some really crazy closed eye visuals and really nice body buzz. I am planning on doing a mix of colubrina seeds, salvia, ayahuasca, cannabis and amanita.

[luten2012]

I can't handle hang-overs anymore. They have gotten worse and worse as time has gone by...and I'm only 21. But because of these awful hangovers and literially feeling like death..I dont drink much at all anymore and if I do it's just one or two

[sunya]

I can't handle hang-overs anymore. They have gotten worse and worse as time has gone by...and I'm only 21. But because of these awful hangovers and literially feeling like death..I dont drink much at all anymore and if I do it's just one or two

I wish this worked for me. I gave up weed because I started having a bad time on it so developed an aversion. The trouble with alcohol is the bad stuff doesn't happen until the next day.

[dmt head]

I am planning on doing a mix of colubrina seeds, salvia, ayahuasca, cannabis and amanita.

Why ? I dont understand why you would want to mix all these things? :confused: Why take amanitas salvia and colubrina seeds while on ayahuasca. Dont you think it would just be a little much and confusing?? Quite conflicting things id imagine.

[nwoexposer]

alcohol isnt a proper drug as it doesnt act on any receptors. Therefore it could be viewed as a true poisoning, rather than a key to our natural cerebral paradises.

Is this really true? If it is, FUCK!

[nwoexposer]

I don't drink and I don't do drugs and would never touch anything like the trendy stuff that has been mentioned here. Ahuasca? Something like that.

Alcohol stunts spiritual growth. It is like drinking liquid fear.

Who needs that? Drunks are no use to anyone.

David Icke does not look healthy to me. Someone needs to take him aside and explain a few things to him.

Yeah I know. I'm surprised that a well educated man like David Icke vacates to bars. Oh well, his life I guess.

[sunya]

Yeah I know. I'm surprised that a well educated man like David Icke vacates to bars. Oh well, his life I guess.

Well even Leary saw a place for it. He thought it activated the first of the eight neural circuits, that's right, the basic animal one.

[nwoexposer]

Alcohol makes me want to talk too much, i.e. confess stuff or bring up subjects of little relevance even days after the hangover, even after having just one or two drinks. Does anyone else have an experience like this?

At times it can be really frustrating having to cipher what's rationale thought and what isn't.

[nwoexposer]

The reason you still have cravings is because you are in a state of limbo. You are neither pushing hard towards health nor un-health.

Spon on Cleft! That's how I think exactly. In the last 5 months or so when I have drank alcoholic beverages I have often had cravings to go and eat at KFC, McDonald's, etc. whereas if I had not have drank I would not even consider going to these places. Just before drinking regularly, I didn't have these cravings.

[nwoexposer]

Yes but just because they make something illegal does not mean they don't want you to use it, such as pot.

I didn't think the establishment would want us smoking pot? Please explain?

My "friend" tried to get me onto pot, saying it would bring me into the fourth dimension (experiencing Oneness) and after much thought decided against it, thanks to a friend that said that the Oneness part is total bull (which I was pretty sure of anyway).

[nwoexposer]

I say it is flawed because of the dependency on something which is external to ourselves.

But nothing is external to ourselves if the world only exists in our heads? I really don't get it when people say that rely on something external (in anything) when there is no external?

[phildee3]

I didn't think the establishment would want us smoking pot? Please explain?



Do you seriously think it's illegal to get us to stop using it??

Balderdash! - it's the only way they can make money out of it.

[nwoexposer]

Do you seriously think it's illegal to get us to stop using it??

Balderdash! - it's the only way they can make money out of it.

Actually yeah I did. But I later realized that you're right. I totally forgot about the fraudulent War on Drugs.

[tjohn]

since starting my sessions of ayahuasca, i've really get this aversion to alcohol now. its not that i dont like it, ive always liked a beer and red wine, it just this strong feeling not to put alcohol in my system.

i dont believe that its the aya itself thats done it, but maybe just a change in my perception. neither would it follow that you need aya for a change in perception like this.

has anyone else felt the same way, and not just because you read that alcohol might be bad for you?I openly confess, yet I'm not ashamed that I have drunk nearly 5 litres of vodka in 6 days. I saved the bottles so I can see how much I drink. As I write this and hopefully it can be seen it's quite coherent, I have had 60 CL of vodka - which is somewhat better, compared to a few days before. The thing is that my brain feels like jelly and I feel dizzy and very ill, if I don't have a drink and I can't think clearly because the bad feelings distract. There's the catch 22 but I do want to stop because as time goes by it's making me more ill and I could end up dead.

Glad you made it, pleasuredome but how do I get over this problem?

[tjohn]

Alcohol makes me want to talk too much, i.e. confess stuff or bring up subjects of little relevance even days after the hangover, even after having just one or two drinks. Does anyone else have an experience like this?

At times it can be really frustrating having to cipher what's rationale thought and what isn't.I've always talked 'too much' for some people and alcohol doesn't make a real lot of difference in that respect because I have little I want to hide anyway. I think the world would be a better place if people didn't hide what they think and feel but.. alcohol isn't the answer because it's a poison and it kills people.

[relentless]

Hi tjohn, I want you to put the bottle down.

[breezinreezin]

Hello tjohn. I second that. It's time to stop. Ring Alcoholic Anonymous.

[kweli]

I openly confess, yet I'm not ashamed that I have drunk nearly 5 litres of vodka in 6 days. I saved the bottles so I can see how much I drink. As I write this and hopefully it can be seen it's quite coherent, I have had 60 CL of vodka - which is somewhat better, compared to a few days before. The thing is that my brain feels like jelly and I feel dizzy and very ill, if I don't have a drink and I can't think clearly because the bad feelings distract. There's the catch 22 but I do want to stop because as time goes by it's making me more ill and I could end up dead.

Glad you made it, pleasuredome but how do I get over this problem?

If it's got that that stage you may need medical help to detox. I'm not intending to alarm you but it can be very dangerous to quit on your own if your recent consumption has been as heavy as you say. I wouldn't recommend Alcoholics Anonymous personally, but do whatever works for you. You could start by contacting your local Alcohol Concern/advice centre.
http://www.alcoholconcern.org.uk/servlets/home

Good luck.. and remember - YOU have the power to stop, you are not powerless.

'A sudden cessation of alcohol use really shocks a body and mind accustomed to the regular effects of the drug, and the withdrawal symptoms that will ensue soon after cessation are uncomfortable and can even be dangerous. Some of the symptoms of alcohol detox include shakiness, anxiety, nausea, hallucinations, convulsions, delirium tremens and heart failure-death.'
http://hubpages.com/hub/The_symptoms_of_alcohol_detox

[limelady]

I openly confess, yet I'm not ashamed that I have drunk nearly 5 litres of vodka in 6 days. I saved the bottles so I can see how much I drink. As I write this and hopefully it can be seen it's quite coherent, I have had 60 CL of vodka - which is somewhat better, compared to a few days before. The thing is that my brain feels like jelly and I feel dizzy and very ill, if I don't have a drink and I can't think clearly because the bad feelings distract. There's the catch 22 but I do want to stop because as time goes by it's making me more ill and I could end up dead.

Glad you made it, pleasuredome but how do I get over this problem?

tjohn, you DO have a serious problem if things have gotten to this stage. For a start your liver will be almost at the point where it's screaming out for help due to alcohol toxicity .......you only have one liver, and it cannot function even adequately under an on-going heavy burden of alcohol - you do run a terrible risk of cirrhosis of the liver, which is fatal.

http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/2006icr/ddw/images/cirrhosis-liver.jpg

Kweli has given you some good advice, and for your own sake, I suggest you use every ounce of willpower you can muster and make a start on getting yourself off your alcohol dependency.

I wish you all the best. :)

[breezinreezin]

I wouldn't recommend Alcoholics Anonymous personally, but do whatever works for you.

Why not? It's an organisaton, available in most towns, that has helped thousands upon thousands of people world wide. Do you know of another organisation that can match that?

[breezinreezin]

Why not? It's an organisaton, available in most towns, that has helped thousands upon thousands of people world wide. Do you know of another organisation that can match that?

No need to answer that. Needless to say, once again on this egocentric forum, one man's experience doesn''t necessarily reflect the facts. Personally I know of many people who owe their lives to Alcoholics Anonymous. I won't say any more than that.

[kweli]

Why not? It's an organisaton, available in most towns, that has helped thousands upon thousands of people world wide. Do you know of another organisation that can match that?

I can only speak from my own experiences (9 years in the fellowships of AA/NA) and I've already stated my reasons several times in other threads; but.. like I said - whatever works for him.

No doubt it has helped thousands of people - but you don't really know that do you? Because there are no statistics kept; the truth is no one actually knows how successful it is, you don't get to hear about the hundreds of thousands that fail and die do you? Anyway, I don't want to take this thread off topic by debating the pros and cons of AA - if you want to carry on please search for other threads about AA and we'll continue there.

[limelady]

Why not? It's an organisaton, available in most towns, that has helped thousands upon thousands of people world wide. Do you know of another organisation that can match that?

I have nothing against AA - they saved my uncle's life, but some members here have voiced concerns about AA's methodology, which involves religious concepts that some believe can be equally addictive.

[kweli]

I have nothing against AA - they saved my uncle's life, but some members here have voiced concerns about AA's methodology, which involves religious concepts that some believe can be equally addictive.

Without a doubt Limelady. The programming also insists that you are powerless, this is a lie!

AA say: 'Remember that we deal with alcohol, cunning, baffling, powerful! Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power. That One is God. ...' what a load of bollo*ks!!! Admittedly, it is a strong drug and should be used with caution, but alcohol has no thought process, it doesn't have a mind, it simply exists as chemical compound.

[breezinreezin]

No doubt it has helped thousands of people - but you don't really know that do you? Because there are no statistics kept; the truth is no one actually knows how successful it is, you don't get to hear about the hundreds of thousands that fail and die do you?

There's a lot I could say here, but won't. Suffice to say organisations that don't fufil their remit, getting people sober in AA's case, tend not to grow to point that AA has. I think it pretty much has meetings all over the world, with a couple of hundred in London alone. I would say it's a pretty good bet that it works for people. Those that don't make it, who can pin fault to any one reason? AA has many faults, but, like Christianity, they're to do wth egos, not principles.

[kweli]

There's a lot I could say here, but won't. Suffice to say organisations that don't fufil their remit, getting people sober in AA's case, tend not to grow to point that AA has. I think it pretty much has meetings all over the world, with a couple of hundred in London alone. I would say it's a pretty good bet that it works for people. Those that don't make it, who can pin fault to any one reason? AA has many faults, but, like Christianity, they're to do wth egos, not principles.

I could say a whole lot more too; I've been a both sides of the fence on this one; I worked for years as a Drugs Counsellor too and referred (or should I say recruited) many many people.

I believe AA as grown so much because of referrals; folk get referred there from any number of bodies: Courts, Alcohol Service Centre's, DR's, Hospitals, Probation Officers and so on.. yet there are NO statistics to say it works. If it was so successful you'd think they'd prove it wouldn't you?

"The Harvard Medical School reported that in the long run, the rate of spontaneous remission in alcoholics is slightly over 50 percent. That means that the annual rate of spontaneous remission is around 5 percent.

Thus, an alcoholism treatment program that seems to have a 5% success rate probably really has a zero percent success rate — it is just taking credit for the spontaneous remission that is happening anyway. It is taking the credit for the people who were going to quit anyway. And a program that has less than a five percent success rate, like four or three, may really have a negative success rate — it is actually keeping some people from succeeding in getting clean and sober. Any success rate that is less than the usual rate of spontaneous remission indicates a program that is a real disaster and is hurting the patients.

The Harvard Medical School says that the vast majority of the people who successfully quit drinking for a year or more — eighty percent of them — do it alone, all by themselves, without any treatment program or "support group". Naturally, those do-it-yourselfers will also insist that they have the sure-fire solution that really works:
"Just don't drink any more alcohol, not ever, no matter what."

When you are at an A.A. meeting, you are in a self-selecting group. You won't hear from the Jesus-freak Christians, or the gung-ho V.A. guys, or the do-it-yourself guys, because they aren't there. You will only hear from the A.A. true believers, who will be happily reassuring each other that they are doing the only thing that really works."


http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html

This is a very interesting site and in my opinion spot on with most of it's research.

"Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts." so we'll just have to agree to disagree I guess.

[kweli]

I have nothing against AA - they saved my uncle's life, but some members here have voiced concerns about AA's methodology, which involves religious concepts that some believe can be equally addictive.

'They' didn't save his life LL, he did - 'They' just get the credit. :)

[limelady]

'They' didn't save his life LL, he did - 'They' just get the credit. :)

You're right kweli. In actual fact, his wife was his motivation (she was about to leave him) and he did the work himself because he didn't want to lose his family due to his alcohol abuse. But AA certainly helped them both in supportive ways during the process, and thankfully once he was 'dry' they moved on from AA and never looked back. But it was his own willpower and self-control that prevented him from 'falling off the wagon' in the years that followed.

I have looked at the information you have presented kweli, and I agree with your assessment that AA may well be taking the credit where credit is not due, so my advice to anybody considering AA support would be to look into it for themselves -in fact look at ALL the options available - before settling on one that seems right for you. :)

[breezinreezin]

'They' didn't save his life LL, he did - 'They' just get the credit. :)

This just goes to show that for the years you spent in AA, you didn't understand the programme. AA, or the people in AA, don't take credit for any success. If they do, they are not practicing the programme. I would say when you don't understand something, refrain from passing judgement on it. People in AA have found the obsession and compulsion to drink lifted from them after they have worked the steps as laid out in the big book. They don't attribute this to anything they've done. They attribute it to a power greater than their obsessive, destructive little selves. I'm sorry it didn't work for you, but maybe you ought to look to yourself for that failure.

[guuna]

I've often thought that if alcohol was a "wonder drug" the establishment would not make it legal.

not a chance. Here in the UK they make way too much off it in tax revenues.

a pint(500ml) of premioum strengh lager (5%) now costs £3.25 in bars and pubs.

Glad to say that recently i've drastically cut-back on my drinking, still like a nice cold beer now and then on my days off work.

Generally though, i must say, i feel way better avoiding alcohol altogether, it's my aim to give it up altogether eventually( after some weaning off.):D

[ihaveadream]

This just goes to show that for the years you spent in AA, you didn't understand the programme. AA, or the people in AA, don't take credit for any success. If they do, they are not practicing the programme. I would say when you don't understand something, refrain from passing judgement on it. People in AA have found the obsession and compulsion to drink lifted from them after they have worked the steps as laid out in the big book. They don't attribute this to anything they've done. They attribute it to a power greater than their obsessive, destructive little selves. I'm sorry it didn't work for you, but maybe you ought to look to yourself for that failure.

I don’t post much but I just had to chip in here.

In my estimation you clearly are deluded and are falling into the trap as laid out for you by the layer of control that AA is.

It is called a programme for a reason.

You say “ they attribute it to a power greater then their obsessive compulsive little selves “ … the programme is written and designed to rid the drinker / programme of all responsibility. The drinker has a problem and their choices and actions clearly led them to desperate point, but I think anyone who is able to stop drinking after having an issue, should get some bloody credit !!!

Its just a way to make a beautiful, creative and wonderful human being feel less about themselves. “ Left to their own devices the drinker will always fail “ but bring a programme and a set of steps and rules into the equation, and all of a sudden some mysterious higher power is taking all the credit ?

AA is just one of an infinite layers of control set out like a gigantic net to ensnare people and scoop them back up and ensure they stay within the parameters of the systems control.

By the way, its only YOUR opinion that these guys don’t understand the programme of AA. For all you know they could understand it very well, and its dangerous territory when your trying to suggest people refrain from passing judgment on an issue just because in your opinion they don’t understand it. Take that principle and apply it to whatever you fancy and you will see its incredibly big headed and closed minded.

People who follow the AA programme to the letter have merely traded obsessive compulsive behaviour patterns from one input ( alcohol ) to the next ( slaving to the re-wiring of their own minds and being addicted to the meetings themselves ) , they havnt been cured, nor has the compulsion that burns inside them been lifted, its just been smoke and mirrors style traded out without them realising the full extent of how truly insane the AA programme is if you look at it and think about it properly and objectively with a clear mind.

Just my two pennies worth friend

[kweli]

You're right kweli. In actual fact, his wife was his motivation (she was about to leave him) and he did the work himself because he didn't want to lose his family due to his alcohol abuse. But AA certainly helped them both in supportive ways during the process, and thankfully once he was 'dry' they moved on from AA and never looked back. But it was his own willpower and self-control that prevented him from 'falling off the wagon' in the years that followed.

I have looked at the information you have presented kweli, and I agree with your assessment that AA may well be taking the credit where credit is not due, so my advice to anybody considering AA support would be to look into it for themselves -in fact look at ALL the options available - before settling on one that seems right for you. :)

That's good to hear about your uncle Limelady. But according to AA's indoctrination, he would be classed as a 'dry drunk', without meetings - destined for relapse. Glad he proved them wrong. And thanks for keeping an open mind and reading the information.

I shan't be replying any further to the person baiting me - my days of arguing with programmed minds are done. Live & let live eh? Today I choose not to drink

[nwoexposer]

not a chance. Here in the UK they make way too much off it in tax revenues.

a pint(500ml) of premioum strengh lager (5%) now costs £3.25 in bars and pubs.

Glad to say that recently i've drastically cut-back on my drinking, still like a nice cold beer now and then on my days off work.

Generally though, i must say, i feel way better avoiding alcohol altogether, it's my aim to give it up altogether eventually( after some weaning off.):D

Well here in Melbourne, two shots of Jack Daniels mixed with coke (cola) in one glass is $16! That converts to 7.26 British Pounds! Australians are getting battered good!

I feel great not drinking alcohol either. I'm only 19 as well. I got a huge life ahead of me predominately alcohol free! Glad I tried several drinks though just to see if it was for me!

[breezinreezin]

I don’t post much but I just had to chip in here.

In my estimation you clearly are deluded and are falling into the trap as laid out for you by the layer of control that AA is.

It is called a programme for a reason.

Of course it is. It's called a programme because it's a 12 step programme--an outline of an order to be followed :confused: I am not here to defend AA, that is non of my business and God knows AA in the UK has a lot to be desired. And I would be the first to admit far too many people in AA meeting are spouting stuff that has nothing to do with the AA programme. And in the end the programme is all that matters for the sick alcoholic. I'm here to put the facts across about the programme of AA, because it is being misrepresented by you and Kweli.

You say “ they attribute it to a power greater then their obsessive compulsive little selves “ … the programme is written and designed to rid the drinker / programme of all responsibility. The programme is designed that the individual takes FULL responsibility for his actions, past and present. In summary a person is asked to write a moral inventory, make a list of those he has harmed and make ammends for those harms. It also acknowledges that it takes courage for a person to fulfil these steps. In this day and age, few people stand up and admit their wrongs to those they have wronged, well in AA they do.

The drinker has a problem and their choices and actions clearly led them to desperate point, but I think anyone who is able to stop drinking after having an issue, should get some bloody credit !!! Giving them the credit? Listen, the AA programme is a deeply spiritual and philosophically, profound programme. It tacitly reflects the deep spiritual truth, that there is no 'I' to take credit, that this illusory 'I' is ineffective in living life successfully. The alcoholic is walking proof of that. And alcoholics are in the grip of a distorted sense of self that results in the compulsion to drink. The AA programme asks them to take the leap of faith, to metaphorically step aside and ask that a power greater than themselves take over. If you want they are calling on their higher self, the inner infinite, interconnected self, as Icke would call it. The AA programme, like other great spiritual traditions, is a method to transcend the ego, and experience freedom from the cravings and aversions of ego.

Its just a way to make a beautiful, creative and wonderful human being feel less about themselves. Jeez, what alcoholics do you know? If I relayed some of the stories I know of what alcoholics get up to, you'd soon lose that fluffy picture. Alcoholics, when in the grip of their drinking, can behave without any regard for any consequences to others or themselves. This insular, crazed mindset means they can often commit terrible acts. It is true that underneath they are often very sensitive people, but, nevertheless, when drinking they do much damage.
AA is just one of an infinite layers of control set out like a gigantic net to ensnare people and scoop them back up and ensure they stay within the parameters of the systems control. [And this is just more paranoind, something nasty under every stone, mentality that is commonly found on this forum. Not all organisations are out to get you.

By the way, its only YOUR opinion that these guys don’t understand the programme of AA. For all you know they could understand it very well, and its dangerous territory when your trying to suggest people refrain from passing judgment on an issue just because in your opinion they don’t understand it. Take that principle and apply it to whatever you fancy and you will see its incredibly big headed and closed minded. Not at all. It's provable that both you and Kweli don't understand the AA programme. I have just addressed a few critical misunderstandings that you have. And I make a distinction here about the AA programme as written in the basic text, not what people in meetings say. There is often a big difference, unfortunately. And that is probably what Kweli encounterered in her years in AA--somebody elses distorted idea of what the programme is and not what it is in actuality. That is unfortunate. If she had found a group that taught the programme as laid out in the basic text and cross referenced those teachings with the book, she would have had a different experience. It's the way of the world that people corrupt beautiful teachings. Look at the church.

People who follow the AA programme to the letter have merely traded obsessive compulsive behaviour patterns from one input ( alcohol ) to the next ( slaving to the re-wiring of their own minds and being addicted to the meetings themselves ) , they havnt been cured, nor has the compulsion that burns inside them been lifted, its just been smoke and mirrors style traded out without them realising the full extent of how truly insane the AA programme is if you look at it and think about it properly and objectively with a clear mind
Just my two pennies worth friendAs I've already stated, people that follow the AA programme to the letter will have an experience of a true awakening, not the daft concept of an awakening that get bandied around this mostly idiotic, irrational paranoid forum. Two pennies worth. I'm sure in other subjects you are worth both, but here you've over valued yourself friend.

[the_watcher]

since starting my sessions of ayahuasca, i've really get this aversion to alcohol now. ?

Itl defo be the Aya man. That stuff works on you for weeks after.
The same thing happened to me with weed and alcohol.
Gonna be havin another ceremony this wknd in fact :)