Buy Gold and Silver

[icke_is_right]

I'm holding a lot of the above, so firstly if this isn't the best idea I suffer. I don't want to ram this down anyone's throat but this ties into 'what can I do?'. Finance is something I've been into since 1999. There will be other things to face along the way and this isn't the ultimate solution but I see this mainly as opting out of their financial system. It's a small thing that you can do, since a major part of this conspiracy involves paper money.

If all went well and all people on this site held a bit of gold or silver, after the 'revaluation' of money, people here would be better off and hence have more clout in the matrix world. I see more benefit if benefits and knowledge are spread to all.

So, if you're interested in what to do buy this book

http://www.amazon.com/Rich-Dads-Advisors-Investing-Financial/dp/0446510998/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226739735&sr=1-1

Gold/Silver price is manipulated so that today's 'price' is nothing like what it is worth. This is complicated but in the end, if you can afford a few silver bullion coins, you will probably see the value of them increase massively over the coming years.

In the end, paper money isn't real. I'm converting more paper to bullion until things stop being such good value.

In the end very few people will heed buying bullion and this is why I think that they will be much poorer (in matrix terms). I'm sorry about this. I probably won't be contributing much to feeback in this thread, everything you need to know is in the book listed and I'll be busy acquiring more physical gold and silver.

A good forum on bullion...

http://www.kitco.com/

www.gata.org for general info surrounding gold scam by Fed.

Good Luck.

[psych641]

Silver is better atm, but you have to pay VAT on it in the UK.

http://www.goldprice.org/

this guys daily commentary doesnt pull any punches about manipulation & the fed etc.

[size_of_light]

I'm seriously looking into this.

Why would silver be worth investing in? If the shit hit the fan, seems to me people would instinctively value gold above anything else. Bullion also seems a bit dodgy. Wouldn't small denomination (for trading) gold coins be the best way to go?

The other thing I'm coming around to is that the best place to park your money if there is a near future meltdown is in longlife food, since if society collapses, food is what you'll need, not money, and food (and water - get a water filter ;) ) is virtually the only thing guaranteed to hold it's value in any possible scenario.

The key seems to be in making the shift from thinking about trading shit, and start thinking about how you can ensure your own basic and real wealth, i.e. food, water, shelter, and survival skills.

If we're honest with ourselves, these are fundamentals that we should safeguard before we worry about anything else.

Common sense.

[psych641]

silver vs gold is more about the variable silver/gold ratio - currently silver is undervalued compared to gold, but this is more of a current-day 'portfolio' trading concern than a 'situation X' trading for survival supplies iyswim.

The advantage of coins is you can 95% verify their authenticity by checking their weight & measurement against the official figures. Gold is so heavy there are few materials that could be used in its place. You either have a slightly lower carat or something from the platinum family (also valuable). Theoretically it could be something like plated tungsten, but this is extremely unlikely.

The disadvantage with (gold) coins for emergency trades is their just too big & the tiniest ones are sold at a massive premium. From this POV small items of hallmarked jewellry would be a better choice - and draw less attention to you as someone worth attacking. A few grams of '375' (9k) gold as earrings or wedding bands can be had for about £10.

I agree that long-life food, equipment etc should be bought first.

[size_of_light]

Very useful. Thanks psych.

[icke_is_right]

You'll see from these figures that all it takes is increased investor demand to tip the balance.

http://www.silverinstitute.org/supply_demand.php#supply

Silver Recycling, do the maths.

http://pubs.usgs.gov/circ/c1196n/c1196n.pdf

Ted Butler has been writing about this situation for years. The facts prove him correct.

http://www.investmentrarities.com/tb-archives.html

This is background info on Silver. This silver situation has been brewing for 60 years. Could silver become as valuable as gold? Yes, I think that it's possible.

[icke_is_right]

Swamped by gold demand, Perth Mint stops taking orders
Submitted by cpowell on Fri, 2008-11-21 18:05. Section: Daily Dispatches

By Sarah-Jane Tasker
The Australian, Sydney
Saturday, November 22, 2008

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,24687337-643...

Fears of the unknown long-term effects from the global financial crisis have sparked a new gold rush.

With retail and wholesale clients around the world stocking up on the precious metal, the Perth Mint has been forced to suspend orders.

As the World Gold Council reported that the dollar demand for gold reached a quarterly record of $US32 billion (A$50.73 billion) in the third quarter, industry insiders said the race to secure physical gold had reached an intensity that had never been witnessed before.

Perth Mint sales and marketing director Ron Currie said the unprecedented demand had forced the Mint to cease orders until January, with staff working seven days a week, 24-hour days, over three shifts to meet orders.

He said Europe was leading the demand, with Russia, Ukraine, Middle East, and US all buying -- making up 80 per cent of its sales. One European client purchased 30,000 ounces for $33 million.

"We have never seen this before and are working right at capacity. And we are seeing it from clients in the shop buying one ounce, right up to 30,000 ounces from overseas clients," Mr Currie said.

Robert Jaggard, manager of bullion and rare coins dealer Jaggards, said business had picked up strongly and he expected it to increase further.

"All around the world there has been a heavy run on physical gold and there is a shortage of supply," he said.

Mr Jaggard, who has been dealing in gold for 40 years and is an agent for the Perth Mint, said some clients were buying up to $1 million worth of gold, paying a premium above the spot price.

Late yesterday afternoon, spot gold in Sydney was trading at $US747.30 an ounce, up $US8.15 on Thursday's local close.

"Professional business people who have previously bought small amounts now want more gold because they are suffering in other markets," Mr Jaggard said.

At a conference this week in Munich, delegates were lined up 30-deep to purchase physical gold. And reports out of the Middle East suggested that there had been unprecedented gold buying in Saudi Arabia during the first half of November, with an estimated $US3.5 billion purchased in recent weeks.

The World Gold Council, releasing its global demand trends yesterday, said identifiable investment demand, which incorporates demand for gold through exchange-traded funds and bars and coins, was the biggest contributor to overall demand during the quarter. It was up to $US10.7 billion, double last year's levels.

The figures showed retail investment demand rose 121 per cent to 232 tonnes in the third quarter, with strong bar and coin buying reported in Swiss, German and US markets.

The quarter also witnessed widespread reports of gold shortages among bullion dealers across the globe, as investors searched for a haven. Overall, quarter three saw Europe reach an all-time record 51 tonnes of bar and coin buying. France became a net investor in gold for the first time since the early 1980s.

World Gold Council chief executive James Burton said gold's universal role as a store of value had shone through during the quarter, helping attract investors and consumers to all forms of gold ownership.

"The rise in demand for gold bars and coins has been impressive," he said.

Demand in India, the largest market for gold, recovered during the third quarter, encouraged by lower gold prices, a good monsoon and the onset of the festive season. At 250 tonnes, total consumer demand was 31 per cent higher than the same period last year. In value terms, demand hit the record quarterly sum of $US5 billion.

[griswald]

I'm seriously looking into this.

Why would silver be worth investing in? If the shit hit the fan, seems to me people would instinctively value gold above anything else. Bullion also seems a bit dodgy. Wouldn't small denomination (for trading) gold coins be the best way to go?

The other thing I'm coming around to is that the best place to park your money if there is a near future meltdown is in longlife food, since if society collapses, food is what you'll need, not money, and food (and water - get a water filter ;) ) is virtually the only thing guaranteed to hold it's value in any possible scenario.

The key seems to be in making the shift from thinking about trading shit, and start thinking about how you can ensure your own basic and real wealth, i.e. food, water, shelter, and survival skills.

If we're honest with ourselves, these are fundamentals that we should safeguard before we worry about anything else.

Common sense.

I,m inclined to agree with you, food and water would be my thoughts as well.
I cant see much use in having gold and silver , if things are really bad. I know if food and water are scarce, I dont see alot of sense in parting with it for gold. I,d imagine that bartering for other stuff would be more beneficial.

Just my 2cents.

griswald

[pinkfreud]

i also believe the true value of silver [and platinum] has been drastically undermined, either intentionally or unintentionally.

i am planning to purchase a few gold/silver coins over a period of time, but methinks there will be a point when the value of both could dip sharply.

i agree with size of light and psych. great posts/advice, thanks.

Demand in India, the largest market for gold, recovered during the third quarter, encouraged by lower gold prices, a good monsoon and the onset of the festive season. At 250 tonnes, total consumer demand was 31 per cent higher than the same period last year. In value terms, demand hit the record quarterly sum of $US5 billion.

gold is the rage in india. almost every individual here, whether they are rich or poor, has gold in some form or other. and i find it no coincidence that it is tipped to be the next important player in the 'multipolar' world along with china.

[icke_is_right]

I,m inclined to agree with you, food and water would be my thoughts as well.
I cant see much use in having gold and silver , if things are really bad. I know if food and water are scarce, I dont see alot of sense in parting with it for gold. I,d imagine that bartering for other stuff would be more beneficial.

Just my 2cents.

griswald

Things are actually quite bad right now. I didn't want to turn this into a thread about if bullion was better than grain/seeds because ultimately it's not; we can't eat bullion.......I'm opting out of their paper money system firstly and it's going to make me better off financially. Talking about food shortages etc., is giving in to a few people who sit around a table and make decisions, we are going to defeat these people. Bullion is empowering because I'm opting out of their system because I understand their system of paper money control. If more people do it, it will undermine their control system.

Secondly, if you have you gone through the information that I posted and have made an informed decision, good on you. The gold price rose over $50 yesterday. I hope these good prices last but I'm skeptical about this.

[icke_is_right]

i also believe the true value of silver [and platinum] has been drastically undermined, either intentionally or unintentionally.


I'm adding to my silver 1oz coin reserves presently. I've looked at platinum briefly but don't have an opinion on it. I agree that the drop in value of both looks 'very overdone'. Silver, I know more about that's why I'm happy buying it. In any case, paper cash is trash. I'm converting my trash to real cash.

[griswald]

I'm converting my trash to real cash.

Well, you,ve got my attention.
How does the complete novice enter into a world of silver , gold purchasing.

griswald

[icke_is_right]

www.goldline.co.uk

These people are good. However you can't get silver coins from them. They will post things out to you. They are a bit expensive.

I'm buying my silver coins in Germany from small dealers (I'm not in the UK). I'm paying E12 a coin. There are some on Ebay but they are generally more expensive than this ie £10 approx. US silver eagles seem the most popular but I have Maples, Aussie and a few Mexican 1oz coins.

The forum at Kitco might be a good place to ask further questions.

Gold carries no tax. Silver bars do, the coins I'm buying don't.

In the end the silver market is small. The same old bankers are manipulating the mkt with paper. Buying bullion will help bring their system down, give you something real for you cash and probably increase your wealth. I'm thinking in terms of the next 4 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOKn7tiUMyc

Rich Dad's specialist has his own bullion dealer website in the US where most things seem far better organised and cheaper concerning the purchase of bullion.

[psych641]

Id love to get some fine silver, but its taxable in the UK.

I think platinum is strongly tied into catalytic converter production, so youd have to be fairly confident in the future of that (or other comparable) technology before getting heavily into it. I think its palladium, where if you check the historical charts there was a MASSIVE spike which lasted for about one year then vanished just as suddenly.

Keep in mind that when you see the price of metals quoted (As in gained/lost $xx /oz) this is the PAPER price, manipulated by TPTB to look weak, you will never find physical material that cheap. The gap between paper & physical prices will widen further as the economic sham unravels.

[icke_is_right]

I bit the bullet and paid out tax on bars. I hated this as I am allergic to anything that is the 'system'. I thought, better to be in and then spend time shopping around for cheaper stuff in case prices took off.

In the end, I believe that the people without bullion and in cash will be xxxxed.

I like having real money.

[icke_is_right]

There's been a dip in prices and it's been referred to as 'deleverage'.

My very simplified (part) version of what happened is this:

Masses of USD based Investment Funds having to buy USD to convert their paper market positions to cash and exit the market. I know that this is a whole lot more complicated but I wish to put it into simple terms.

(I don't believe in Peak Oil. It's just a matter of Opec turning the tap on and off which is why I'd never invest in oil. So I don't take notice of the Oil Price as such).

Soon those dollars will be looking around for a safe haven. No paper money is safe, there is going to be a whole lot more money going into bullion. I believe that these present prices are ridiculously cheap.

Deflation (where prices of goods fall) will be combatted with the printing of more paper currency. If deflation occurs and bullion prices fall, I'll just buy more (if I have anymore trash for conversion!).

Corrections to my views welcome. I just wish to keep things in simple terms.

Cash is Trash!

[griswald]

Well some novice has to ask the obvious question. How do I seperate the reputable dealers from the bad.

In short how do I know my silver that I purchased with me hard earned dosh ( yeah I know it will soon be worthless ;) is not just a lump of fancy looking lead;)

Novices are easily ripped off. Are there any safe guards.

griswald

[icke_is_right]

http://www.royalmint.com/store/catalogue/collectable/silver.aspx?page=4&cat=0&prc=0&srt=DEF&sze=10

Here is an example of a 1oz silver coin direct from the mint. This is lower purity than the ones I have, this one is .958 silver. (I have one of these). Mine are generally .999 silver. You can google different mints around the world to check pictures. Best would be to view some and get the feel of what real money is. After you've handled a few, you'll get a feel for it. Pure silver tarnishes black. Ebay sellers are rated, so find one with an excellent rating or a professional dealer and get hold of proper examples as benchmarks. Best to make sure that they are in good condition. Lot's of mine are in protective plastic holders and look stunning. Silver looks much nicer than gold (in my opinion). My favourites and the Aussie and Mexican though I know that the US Eagles sell the best.

In the end you'd have to ask how worthwhile it would be to make a forged coin and sell it for under £15. I get the feeling that a lot of people just want to get rid of silver at the moment with the latest price drop. Unless you were a dealer selling thousands of coins, what point would there be to sell a single coin or anything under 10's of coins at these prices? Silver has been made almost worthless because governments have been dumping cheap silver on the market for 60 years. They've now just about run out.

[pinkfreud]

I think platinum is strongly tied into catalytic converter production, so youd have to be fairly confident in the future of that (or other comparable) technology before getting heavily into it. I think its palladium, where if you check the historical charts there was a MASSIVE spike which lasted for about one year then vanished just as suddenly.

that is very interesting. i was not aware of that, and now im even more convinced that there is a lot more to platinum than meets the eye.

Keep in mind that when you see the price of metals quoted (As in gained/lost $xx /oz) this is the PAPER price, manipulated by TPTB to look weak, you will never find physical material that cheap. The gap between paper & physical prices will widen further as the economic sham unravels.

i agree.

i wonder what is the true value of diamonds though. i remember reading a very good paper (by icke) on the diamond conspiracy, and he says that diamonds are highly overvalued. it seems that gold [maybe even silver, but im not sure] is worth much, much more.

my financial knowledge is zilch, i somehow shut off when talks bout the stock market, shares, debentures, etc etc arise. i find it extremely boring, and im glad icke is right started this thread. it's very informative, thanks. though i cannot help wondering if the ptb will deliberately try to devalue gold over a period of time. what will one do if that ever happens? how will stocking up on gold and precious metals help if the plan to introduce a global e-currency is realised?

i would appreciate if someone could help me with this. i have thought about securing my own future with gold, but i have several financial problems, im all of 20 and yeah, im just broke :o

[icke_is_right]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qIUA1veyHk

Gold/Silver are massively undervalued and manipulated with a huge amount of paper contracts which hold the price down by selling gold short. There isn't the real bullion to back this paper. Gold traders are calling for physical delivery of their gold instead of settling in paper, ie paper contracts for owning it under COMEX rules. Of course this gold doesn't exist. The price of Silver and Gold are likely to skyrocket when the sham is fully exposed for what it is.

[icke_is_right]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Okvztfu0-PQ&feature=related

[rhydra]

If you live near the sea, salt. Salt can be used for food preservation, handy in a world without electricity and freezers. Probably on a par with gold.

[h2pogo]

is there a fool proof easy way to make sure the gold coins i am buying are real.
there must be lots of fake ones out there.

[rhydra]

To find out if gold is genuine you could do a water displacement test, a method made famous by being attributed to Archimedes.

[diamond dogs]

is there a fool proof easy way to make sure the gold coins i am buying are real.
there must be lots of fake ones out there.


Get them weighed also a simple test is balance the coin (pref 1oz Krug size) on the tip of your index finger and strike it on the edge with another coin (or metal object) and you will hear a distinctive 'ching'... Try it...

[psych641]

just weigh & measure, compare to official figures.

Ive got a 1/2 sovereign (4g), if i hold it up to a penny (3.5g), the difference in size is massive.

theres no records of anyone ever making tungsten-based fake coins, and the platinum-based fakes produced decades ago are now worth more than the real thing in todays market. There might be some other method i havent read about, but it would be so rare as not to be worth worrying about IMO.

[knightofthegrail]

Gold - good as an investment metal but not so hot for an everyday currency if the fiat-note system goes pop (as it would be like buying a can of coke with a £50 note).

Silver - good for an alternative currency when fiat note goes pop, but not so good as an investment metal (as it would get very bulky, very quickly).

It depends on what happens though. If the fiat-note currency collapses it could lead to a global currency instead (in which case the gold and silver could be sold to give you "Credits" (or whatever it ends up being called)) or a complete collapse of the economy (in which case you need barter goods like food, ammo, useful tools as gold is useless except as money or decoration - ask king Midas :D ).

Maybe get a small ammount of gold (£100 worth) a large ammount of silver (again £100 worth) and with the rest look at training in essential skills (such as starting a fire without modern means, hunting skinning and cooking your own meat, etc).

Mostly, though, dont sweat it - the most useful thing in a SHTF situation is faith :) Read Matt 6:19-34 for further details :)

[icke_is_right]

http://www.bloomberg.com/avp/avp.htm?clipSRC=mms://media2.bloomberg.com/cache/vhU1YsklcydQ.asf

(http://www.bloomberg.com/avp/avp.htm?clipSRC=mms://media2.bloomberg.com/cache/vhU1YsklcydQ.asf)

Not sure if this link will work, so I've put the link in brackets so it can be cut and pasted.

[icke_is_right]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afb-vinRy3I&NR=1

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldenJackass/1227683700.php

I've taken this paragraph from the above link about 12 paragraphs down. The 28th Nov could be interesting. However this situation has been building for years and I'm in long term. If it happens so be it but physical demand is growing in any case....

ATTACK OF COMEX GOLD & SILVER

Powerful foreign entities are preparing a massive major assault on the US financial corruption, at key spots. All signs seem to point to the gold futures contracts traded at the COMEX and NYMEX, whose prices are routinely suppressed by a high volume of uneconomic short contracts by two to four banks. The COMEX is a division of the New York Mercantile Exchange. A highly leveraged sequence is soon to be unleashed, one that should bring back thoughts of asymmetric attack. Think small cost of a weapon, heavy damage to costly equipment. Something big comes to the gold market, with big angry players! If successful, severe damage will be done to the USDollar. Their goal is to kill the COMEX gold market, the key location for gold price suppression. Major Russian, Chinese, Arab, and European bankers and billionaires are angry beyond words. The giant portion of gold vaulted resides in Central Europe. A plan is in place. The key here and now is COMEX gold futures contracts, where many big players are demanding delivery for their December contracts. North American investment houses have also targeting them for delivery demands. With newly energized Russia & China building their gold treasures, with Arabs turning from distrusted Western paper and more toward gold & silver, look for the new players to offer support to the primary thrust attacks. If successful, it will be a defining moment in US financial history. The first delivery notice for the December gold contract is given on November 28.

[xpleet]

I think for a person who is aware of the severance of the situation to think of saving one's assets is really selfish.

Let's face it: You can not eat gold, you can't drink it, it's not a medicine and it has only value as long as there is any type of monetary system or currency. Not in a future which leans towards Communism or total enslavement.
Gold gives the illusion of making one independant when it really doesn't, it's just another form of currency that stops existing when trade ends. Noone will take your gold when they need their water and apples for themselves.
Instead, expect real-value items (food, water etc.) to be traded with, if at all.

Bottom line:
Imo, Gold is a trick by the ruling-elite to keep the people from making themselves independant. Every penny spent on gold could be spent for food to supply a couple more people in your bunker or community.

[icke_is_right]

I think for a person who is aware of the severance of the situation to think of saving one's assets is really selfish.

Let's face it: You can not eat gold, you can't drink it, it's not a medicine and it has only value as long as there is any type of monetary system or currency. Not in a future which leans towards Communism or total enslavement.
Gold gives the illusion of making one independant when it really doesn't, it's just another form of currency that stops existing when trade ends. Noone will take your gold when they need their water and apples for themselves.
Instead, expect real-value items (food, water etc.) to be traded with, if at all.

Bottom line:
Imo, Gold is a trick by the ruling-elite to keep the people from making themselves independant. Every penny spent on gold could be spent for food to supply a couple more people in your bunker or community.

Please read the thread before you comment.

If you'd read the thread, I've already stated that Gold cannot be eaten. You'd also understand that in exiting the paper money system you are taking more control whilst eroding theirs. I actually hoped that this thread was totally unselfish, ie passing on information which I've studied at great length in order to help others.

If you have £100,000 cash sitting around and are willing to see it's 'worth' in the matrix world disappear to nothing, very good.......that's your choice. Real money can be a blessing or a curse and better spread around but it is my reality that I find it useful to exchange for things. I don't grow my own food yet, which I think would be really far more valuable.

If you want to spend it on food, water or philanthropic things, great. I don't want to turn this thread into a debate about the rights and wrongs of money. This thread is for people who have money and want to exit the paper money system, whilst retaining buying power.

Bottom line, paper money is the trick, gold is harder to manipulate. I believe that most people suffer the illusion that paper money is in fact real (has worth). This is a scam. In reality the elite do not want Average Joe owning real money. I haven't suggested moving to a bunker.

[icke_is_right]

http://www.richdad.com/RichDad/RichContent.aspx?cpid=75

Listen as Robert, Kim, Kelly and Blair discuss the state of the current economy.Topics such as the Federal bailout plan, the future of the world economy and the best way for you and your family to prepare.

[garyicke]

This Comex default that everyone is talking about

the fact we know must mean it won't happen ?

[tracker]

I'm seriously looking into this.

Why would silver be worth investing in? If the shit hit the fan, seems to me people would instinctively value gold above anything else. Bullion also seems a bit dodgy. Wouldn't small denomination (for trading) gold coins be the best way to go?

The other thing I'm coming around to is that the best place to park your money if there is a near future meltdown is in longlife food, since if society collapses, food is what you'll need, not money, and food (and water - get a water filter ;) ) is virtually the only thing guaranteed to hold it's value in any possible scenario.

The key seems to be in making the shift from thinking about trading shit, and start thinking about how you can ensure your own basic and real wealth, i.e. food, water, shelter, and survival skills.

If we're honest with ourselves, these are fundamentals that we should safeguard before we worry about anything else.

Common sense.

this is about the truth of it .

all we have to do is think carefully .
if money becomes worthelless , gold can olny be evaluated against money or the euqivelent of .
eventually , if there were market crashes etc etc , gold and silver would not get food .
to deal with gold or silver would probably mean dealing with hardened gangs of criminals or black market .

for a starters , if money became redundant , gold and silver would start being on the end of counterfiet production etc making the market really strict .

i dont trust gold or silver or money .

knowledge is the key , and if you have enough knowledge to ensure your survival in hard hit times , no amount of gold or silver will pay for that .

if money becomes redundant , eventually gold and silver will be worth nothing .

trade for trade or things like that , but gold and silver ?

forget it , it wont be able to get your tummy full and for starters , you would have to meat bad big guys to get that food anyway , and i wouldnt fancy chances doing that .

it seems as though people are not thinking out side the box .

size of light , you seem to be on the right track here , lets hope others listen .

[griswald]

I think ruling out options would not be a wise choice. There is no reason why you can,t do all options. Survival skills, food, gold, silver, and even paper money are all the tools that are going to help you survive.

As its all ifs and buts , and no one knows exactly what may or may not happen, its prudent to be prepared on all fronts.

Fail to plan, and you plan to fail.

griswald

[icke_is_right]

This Comex default that everyone is talking about

the fact we know must mean it won't happen ?

Yes, just like microchipping that everyone is talking about.

A few good people have made this public knowledge with their own time, money and effort. I respect them. The number of people talking about this is growing at a massive rate. I'm glad you're one of them.

www.gata.org

[icke_is_right]

Whilst I don't subscribe to all views in these videos, they do raise interesting points. Depending on your views you'll find some things very interesting in regards to money.


The Crash Course

Do you ever get a nagging feeling that the next 20 years will be nothing like the past 20 years for you and your family?

If you feel this way give your 6th sense a pat on the back because scientific evidence just backed up your feelings.

We just ran across the work of Chris Martenson, PhD as he tackles what the future holds. We think it is well worth your time to take a look. In fact here is what Michael Maloney had to say about it:

"Watching these videos may very well be one of the most important things someone can do in their lifetime."

No kidding. You will want to watch this in its entirety.

The videos can be found here:

http://goldsilver.com/crash_course.php?video_id=29&cat_id=6

[psych641]

http://www.coininvestdirect.com/

1oz silver coins from £12 (including UK tax)

Are these prices reasonably competitive? The buy/sell margin does look a bit wide (?) but they take payment without too much pissing about & deliver fairly fast (postage is £11 or so)

[icke_is_right]

1kg Kookaburra look better value. I might go for a few of these myself. I think the 1oz coins are expensive but I'm having trouble getting more at £10 each. (Germany).

Wack in the 1kg to ebay and see what people are asking/getting.

For the maths:

http://www.metric-conversions.org/weight/grams-to-troy-ounces.htm

[icke_is_right]

http://goldsilver.com/crash_course.php?cat_id=6&video_id=40

Chapter 11 of the Crash Course is a fascinating fact. I like the way he enables the viewer to visualise how much cash this is.

3.28 min video.

[olas]

http://goldsilver.com/crash_course.php?cat_id=6&video_id=40

Chapter 11 of the Crash Course is a fascinating fact. I like the way he enables the viewer to visualise how much cash this is.

3.28 min video.

Isn´t better to invest in agricultural managements?

No one eats gold. Or drink silver.

[icke_is_right]

Isn´t better to invest in agricultural managements?

No one eats gold. Or drink silver.

No, I don't think that investing is for you Olas. If you can't read the thread first, you are obviously not serious about it.

[icke_is_right]

Ebay Coin Prices Link

http://www.24hgold.com/english/buy_sell_gold_coins.aspx?co_id=0


National Debt Clock

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

Press the refresh button when you have this page up,,,,,,,I was impressed.

[1694]

Folks it doesn't have to the the appocolypse you are envisioning for fiat currency to end up worthless compared to a loaf of bread. Society may well continue along its current lines, just with currency buyer power dissapearing down the shitter.

If you have a substantial bank balance I would take measures to protect it, you put a lot of time and effort in to saving it. Land, copper, sugar etc. all have a large scale "use" but there are issues of storage and trading. Oil/petrol have storage and legality issues.

PMs may very well still be in demand in the future just as they have been for centuries and over the long run will probably hold their trading value against land, sugar, copper, oil etc. a hell of a lot better than a currency.

You can't eat gold, you can't eat paper, but there are only so many preps you can buy, 40K prob wont buy you enough land to go self sufficient, what are you going to do with that 40K?

Also what if this isnt the final crash, you are left sitting on a 40k of food preps past their use by dates. What if there isnt the massive crash and you are left owning a farm and being raiped by Tesco, commercial farming aint easy. If you have enough money to set yourself up as self sufficient, why haven't you done it already? If there isn't a final crash gold will still have a market.

Don't depend on it, but maybe consider it making up part of your overall plan.

[icke_is_right]

http://meltdown2011.wordpress.com/2008/11/29/vaporize-comex-countdown/

http://www.nymex.com/warehouse.aspx

If you can invest in baked beans,,,,,,,,fair enough. I think the main thing is to convert cash out of this paper money system into something tangible.

I've chosen Gold Silver because of the above situation and I can store them for long periods. I can also convert them for payment as some stage in the future.

[olas]

No, I don't think that investing is for you Olas. If you can't read the thread first, you are obviously not serious about it.

But the thread is "Buy Gold and Silver".

What do you mean?

[icke_is_right]

Sorry Olas, I think you sound like English isn't you first language so reading all the information posted in the thread is challenging even if English is your first language.

To answer your question, my view is that if you were buying real agricultural investments eg farmland, that is a possibility. The whole thing about trading in this environment is that I don't like the idea trusting paper assets.

The case for silver and gold is strong because the price has been manipulated to stay low for so long. There is a very strong chance that gold and silver will reach their real market price in the next years. This could be many times the value that they are now.

Food etc. is more important that Gold. It just looks like the value of paper money is set to decrease dramatically, perhaps to what I perceive it's real worth to be and that is zero. Gold and Silver have retained value for the last 5000 years whilst paper money systems have come and gone.

There are many people who think that we should be doing survival training and moving back to living off the land. This, I think, is exactly what the elite would like. All I aim to do is try to keep up with their paper money game. I'm not focusing on doom scenarios, I aim more to take control of what is.

I believe that paper money isn't valuable and that gold and silver a harder to produce than paper.

[icke_is_right]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/interestrates/3551328/Bank-of-England-mulls-nuclear-option-of-cash-injection.html

Bank of England mulls "nuclear option" of cash injection
The Bank of England is working on radical plans to inject cash directly into the economy - the nuclear option to be used only when interest rates approach zero.

By Edmund Conway, Economics Editor

In what would be a major departure for British monetary policy, the Bank is considering pressing the button on printing presses by engaging in a so-called policy of quantitative easing. It emerged after the Monetary Policy Committee cut borrowing costs by 1pc to just 2pc - the lowest level since 1951.

In the statement published alongside its decision, the Bank warned that "it was unlikely that a normal volume of [bank] lending would be restored without further measures."

The measures under consideration include direct purchases of assets, such as government debt or commercial investments, by the Bank or the Treasury, as well as expanding the Bank's balance sheet, a means of pumping extra cash into the banking sector.

The radical proposals, which are currently being explored by Bank experts, could be put into action within weeks, although they would have to be vetted by the Treasury, which is thought to remain sceptical. The main obstacle is that the policy could be found to conflict with European Union laws on how governments manage their budgets.

However, added weight was given to the proposals by European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet, who seemed to hint in the press conference to announce the ECB's 75 basis point rate cut yesterday that it may also consider "nuclear options".

"We will look at what is necessary at any period of time," he said. "If new decisions are needed, we will take new decisions."

If the plans do go ahead it would be the first time since the 1970s that the Bank of England has effectively attempted to target the volume of cash in the economy, by using its balance sheet, rather than the price of money through interest rates.

The news underlines the fact that despite having slashed rates from 5pc this year, and put around £500bn of money behind schemes aimed at kick-starting the mortgage lending market, it has failed to arrest the financial crisis.

Danny Gabay of Fathom Consulting said: "There has been a seismic shift at the Bank of England. I think [quantitative easing] is a natural progression from where we've got to now. The Bank has reached a tipping-point with interest rates. With a target rate for inflation of 2pc, this cut means that real interest rates are now at zero.

"It's quite sensible for them to start thinking about what other things to do. The easiest thing that they could do is to under-fund the fiscal deficit."

This would involve using the Ways and Means bank account at the Bank to buy government securities and would, in effect, amount to printing cash. In normal times such a move would be highly inflationary, but with the UK facing deflation next year such a plan is now thought to be valid.

A number of other central banks, including the Riksbank in Sweden, the Danish central bank and the Reserve Bank of New Zealand also slashed rates as the global economic slowdown took hold.

With experts speculating that the MPC might contemplate another 1.5pc cut, the pound dropped sharply ahead of the decision, but it later recovered to close down 1.32 cents at $1.4690 against the dollar.

Halifax reported that house prices dropped by 2.6pc in November alone, while the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders announced that new car sales plummeted at the fastest rate since 1980. The total number of new car registrations last month was 100,333 - down 36.8pc on last year's level.

[electricwoombat]

If 2012 comes about gold, silver, platinum whatever should be worthless as a new type of society will come about where these things are worthless. Worrying about how to maintain wealth is still the unawakened mode of thought 'If it all collapses I'll need "currency" to get by in the new world", is still old thinking and just looking at rebuilding what we are all ( I hope) trying to bring down. The real currencies will be food love and shelter, actually I really think that currency will become irrelevant as in a true world we are all self sustaining in all the basics and will all be exploring new modalities of existance and none of us will be alive to see what new technologies come about when oil and coal and nuclear are all rejected so finance isnt really a worry.;)

[icke_is_right]

If 2012 comes about gold, silver, platinum whatever should be worthless as a new type of society will come about where these things are worthless. Worrying about how to maintain wealth is still the unawakened mode of thought 'If it all collapses I'll need "currency" to get by in the new world", is still old thinking and just looking at rebuilding what we are all ( I hope) trying to bring down. The real currencies will be food love and shelter, actually I really think that currency will become irrelevant as in a true world we are all self sustaining in all the basics and will all be exploring new modalities of existance and none of us will be alive to see what new technologies come about when oil and coal and nuclear are all rejected so finance isnt really a worry.;)

I don't believe currency is worth anything. I believe that power is being weilded by use of currency. Currency can be anything but the paper/plastic ones are purposely being melted to make normal day to day living difficult for people.

The 'I'm more awakened than you' line means that you are not awakened whatever awakened actually means.

Coming from this part of Australia, let me assure you that your life is much easier than many of those who reside in Europe. In the UK, for many people, it's literally a struggle to survive on a daily basis. I've lived in both places. I know what I'm talking about. Finding shelter in conditions that run to -15C is different to finding shelter in a hot climate. Give me and knife and fishing rod in Queensland and I'm going to be able to survive for months on love any time of the year. In fact, if I had my way, I'd be at Cape Leveque, north of Broome never to return to any city/town ever again.

Oil technology has been enforced upon us. Many scientists have been killed for finding fuel saving or toward more free energy devices. Hydrogen cars are easily viable right here right now if it were allowed.

I hope a new world does occur, I'm tired of the evil in this one.

[olas]

Sorry Olas, I think you sound like English isn't you first language so reading all the information posted in the thread is challenging even if English is your first language.

To answer your question, my view is that if you were buying real agricultural investments eg farmland, that is a possibility. The whole thing about trading in this environment is that I don't like the idea trusting paper assets.

The case for silver and gold is strong because the price has been manipulated to stay low for so long. There is a very strong chance that gold and silver will reach their real market price in the next years. This could be many times the value that they are now.

Food etc. is more important that Gold. It just looks like the value of paper money is set to decrease dramatically, perhaps to what I perceive it's real worth to be and that is zero. Gold and Silver have retained value for the last 5000 years whilst paper money systems have come and gone.

There are many people who think that we should be doing survival training and moving back to living off the land. This, I think, is exactly what the elite would like. All I aim to do is try to keep up with their paper money game. I'm not focusing on doom scenarios, I aim more to take control of what is.

I believe that paper money isn't valuable and that gold and silver a harder to produce than paper.

My point of view is that the paper money was invented to become easier the trade. And, if i remember, the "all the world and more 5%" way of trade began like this. Do i´m wrong as my english?

Then, if you buy gold and silver all what gonna happen is to feed back the bankers that will wait till this hurricane finish. And the next step will be stimulate to change gold and silver for pre-paid credit card. Do i´m still wrong?

Or you mean that we should look for profit in this chaos?

[icke_is_right]

Olas,

paper money is being printed big time. Most banks have stopped or haven't got much more gold to sell. Most govt's have run out of silver. The price of silver has been kept low for 60 years because of governments flooding the market with silver. This has now stopped. Also the price of gold and silver has been kept very low because the big banks manipulate the price with paper derivatives. The price of gold now should be many times higher. Traders such as myself have given up the paper market and started buying the real thing as we cannot outdo the big banks on paper. They do illegal things. Traders are now starting to ask for real gold and silver in return for their paper contracts. COMEX who have to deliver the gold is likely to run out of gold and silver soon. Then they will not be able to control the paper price of bullion any more.

Really the choice is do you trust holding paper money or gold/silver coins?

Do you want to hold your cash in a bank and constantly loose money because on inflation? I think getting out of cash is getting further away from their game.

You'll probably have to convert back to cash to use in the shops etc.. You might make profit but I know one thing, paper is likely to go to zero before Gold or Silver.

[olas]

Olas,

paper money is being printed big time. Most banks have stopped or haven't got much more gold to sell. Most govt's have run out of silver. The price of silver has been kept low for 60 years because of governments flooding the market with silver. This has now stopped. Also the price of gold and silver has been kept very low because the big banks manipulate the price with paper derivatives. The price of gold now should be many times higher. Traders such as myself have given up the paper market and started buying the real thing as we cannot outdo the big banks on paper. They do illegal things. Traders are now starting to ask for real gold and silver in return for their paper contracts. COMEX who have to deliver the gold is likely to run out of gold and silver soon. Then they will not be able to control the paper price of bullion any more.

Really the choice is do you trust holding paper money or gold/silver coins?

Do you want to hold your cash in a bank and constantly loose money because on inflation? I think getting out of cash is getting further away from their game.

You'll probably have to convert back to cash to use in the shops etc.. You might make profit but I know one thing, paper is likely to go to zero before Gold or Silver.

There is a problem and i see like this way.
The paper will burn, but the only way to keep the centralized financial power is to control the uprise of the economics after the chaos.
That´s what the gold is for. To keep the bankers, and the economists, with the power to hide the real meaning of "manufatured".
Gold, silver, diamond and so on. Who´s the one that can understand that?
Health, food, education and so on. Who´s the one that can´t understand that?

[icke_is_right]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/3629806/Deflation-virus-is-moving-the-policy-test-beyond-the-1930s-extremes.html

Deflation virus is moving the policy test beyond the 1930s extremes
Debt deflation is tightening its grip over the entire global system. Interest rates are creeping towards zero in Japan, America, and now across most of Europe.


By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, International Business Editor
Last Updated: 10:13PM GMT 06 Dec 2008

We are beyond the extremes of the 1930s. The frontiers of monetary policy are being pushed to limits that may now test viability of paper currencies and modern central banking.

You cannot drop below zero. So what next if the credit markets refuse to thaw? Yes, Japan visited and survived this policy Hell during its lost decade, but that was a local affair in an otherwise booming global economy. It tells us nothing.

This time we are all going down together. There is no deus ex machina to lift us out. Certainly not China, which is the most vulnerable of all.

As the risk grows, officials at the highest level of the British Government have begun to circulate a six-year-old speech by Ben Bernanke – at the time of its writing, a garrulous kid governor at the US Federal Reserve. Entitled Deflation: Making Sure It Doesn’t Happen Here, it is the manual of guerrilla tactics for defeating slumps by monetary means.

“The US government has a technology, called a printing press, that allows it to produce as many US dollars as it wishes at essentially no cost,” he said.

Critics had great fun with this when Bernanke later became Fed chief. But the speech is best seen as a thought experiment by a Princeton professor thinking aloud during the deflation mini-scare of 2002.

His point was that central banks never run out of ammunition. They have an inexhaustible arsenal. The world’s fate now hangs on whether he was right (which is probable), or wrong (which is possible).

As a scholar of the Great Depression, Bernanke does not think that sliding prices can safely be allowed to run their course. “Sustained deflation can be highly destructive to a modern economy,” he said.

Once the killer virus becomes lodged in the system, it leads to a self-reinforcing debt trap – the real burden of mortgages rises, year after year, house prices falling, year after year. The noose tightens until you choke. Subtly, it shifts wealth from workers to bondholders. It is reactionary poison. Ultimately, it leads to civic revolt. Democracies do not tolerate such social upheaval for long. They change the rules.

Bernanke’s central claim is that the big guns of monetary policy were never properly deployed during the Depression, or during the early years of Japan’s bust, so no wonder the slumps dragged on.

The Fed can create money out of thin air and mop up assets on the open market, like a sovereign sugar daddy. “Sufficient injections of money will ultimately always reverse a deflation.”

Bernanke said the Fed can “expand the menu of assets that it buys”. US Treasury bonds top the list, but it can equally purchase mortgage securities from US agencies such as Fannie, Freddie and Ginnie, or company bonds, or commercial paper. Any asset will do.

The Fed can acquire houses, stocks, or a herd of Texas Longhorn cattle if it wants. It can even scatter $100 bills from helicopters. (Actually, Japan is about to do this with shopping coupons).

All the Fed needs is emergency powers under Article 13 (3) of its code. This “unusual and exigent circumstances” clause was indeed invoked – very quietly – in March to save the US investment bank Bear Stearns.

There has been no looking back since. Last week the Fed began printing money to buy mortgage debt directly. The aim is to drive down the long-term interest rates used for most US home loans. The Bernanke speech is being put into practice, almost to the letter.

No doubt, such reflation a l’outrance can “work”, but what is the exit strategy? The policy leaves behind a liquidity lake. The risk is that this will flood the system once the credit pipes are unblocked. The economy could flip abruptly from deflation to hyper-inflation.

Nobel Laureate Robert Mundell warned last week that America faces disaster unless the Bernanke policy is reversed immediately. This is a minority view, but one held by a disturbingly large number of theorists. History will judge.

Most central bankers suffer from a déformation professionnelle. Those shaped by the 1970s are haunted by ghosts of libertine excess. Those like Bernanke who were shaped by the 1930s live with their Depression poltergeists.

His original claim to fame was work on the “credit channel” causes of slumps. Bank failures can snowball out of control as the “financial accelerator” kicks in. The cardinal error of the 1930s was to let lending contract.

This is why he went nuclear in January, ramming through the most dramatic rates cuts in Fed history. Events have borne him out.

A case can be made that Bernanke’s pre-emptive blitz has greatly reduced the likelihood of a catastrophe. It was no mean feat given that he had to face down a simmering revolt earlier this year from the Fed’s regional banks.

The sooner the Bank of England tears up its rule books and prepares to follow the script in Bernanke’s manual, the more chance we too have of avoiding a crash landing.

Monetary stimulus is a better option than fiscal sprees that leave us saddled with public debt – the path that nearly wrecked Japan.

Yes, I backed the Brown stimulus package – with a clothes-peg over my nose – but only as a one-off emergency. Public spending should be a last resort, as Keynes always argued.

Of course, Bernanke should not be let off the hook too lightly. Let us not forget that he was deeply complicit in creating the disaster we now face. He was cheerleader of Alan Greenspan’s easy-money stupidities from 2003-2006. He egged on debt debauchery.

It was he who provided the theoretical underpinnings of the Greenspan doctrine that one could safely ignore housing and stock bubbles because the Fed could simply “clean up afterwards”. Not so simply, it turns out.

As Bernanke said in his 2002 speech: “the best way to get out of trouble is not to get into it in the first place”. Too late now.

[368jrn]

i still dont get it, what f`ing use is gold or silver? you cant eat it or drink, it wont keep you warm. if youve got any "money" put it in gold or silver, thats what they say, so when the shit hits the fan you can trade it, well good for you, "i`m all jack". the whole system of people having "money" in what ever form it takes, means there will be those who have more than others, just as it is now. will solve the problem? No. we cant all have money, otherswise who`s gonna do all the shitty jobs? wheres the motivation?

unless eveyone has equal status then any new sytem will eventually slide towards corruption, thats inevitable. i think we are about togo beyond money, theres a change coming, follow you instinct.:cool:

[griswald]

Personally I think that there is a place for a lot of different " currencies" between now and the point when the SHTF stage. We are at the now stage, the sh has not hit the fan yet.

I am not an economist, but I,m not stupid either. Anyone that thinks the current paper currencies are in an excellent condition, are clearly going around with blinkers on.

You are correct, you cant eat gold or silver or any pm. But your are probably going to be able to purchase more with gold/silver at some stage prior to the doomsday stage.

I am a strong believer in being prepared on all fronts. Prior to this thread I also believed that food ect is the most important thing in the doomsday stage. But we have not reached that yet. And i think before we do , pm,s will have a role to play.
And I intend to have as many tools available to me to survive, and I think gold/silver are going to be part of that arsenal.

I,ve seen enough info on this thread to make myself take the time to do what research I can , to either give it more consideration or dismiss it.

Personally I,m glad good info is here, and I,m taking on board, and adding it to my survival scenario.

griswald

[icke_is_right]

i still dont get it, what f`ing use is gold or silver? you cant eat it or drink, it wont keep you warm. if youve got any "money" put it in gold or silver, thats what they say, so when the shit hits the fan you can trade it, well good for you, "i`m all jack". the whole system of people having "money" in what ever form it takes, means there will be those who have more than others, just as it is now. will solve the problem? No. we cant all have money, otherswise who`s gonna do all the shitty jobs? wheres the motivation?

unless eveyone has equal status then any new sytem will eventually slide towards corruption, thats inevitable. i think we are about togo beyond money, theres a change coming, follow you instinct.:cool:

Well, I'm impressed at three things I've learned in this thread:

1. The amount of people who don't read the info in it.
2. The amount of people who state that you can't eat bullion.
3 The collective doom and gloom mindset that we appear to be going
toward the absolute mother of doomsday scenarios in non financial terms.

I DON'T THINK CASH IS VERY NUTRITIOUS
I DON'T THINK CASH IS VERY NUTRITIOUS
I DON'T THINK CASH IS VERY NUTRITIOUS
I DON'T THINK CASH IS VERY NUTRITIOUS
I DON'T THINK CASH IS VERY NUTRITIOUS
I DON'T THINK CASH IS VERY NUTRITIOUS
I DON'T THINK CASH IS VERY NUTRITIOUS

(For the hard of reading).

With a collective mindset that is set on taking us to the ultimate doomsday scenario, we will inevitably get there. People seem to be think that buying a few survival tools and food supplies is what's required. Well, I disagree. As David Icke says, it's more to do with mass non compliance.

OPTING OUT OF THE PAPER MONEY SYSTEM IS NON COMPLIANCE
OPTING OUT OF THE PAPER MONEY SYSTEM IS NON COMPLIANCE
OPTING OUT OF THE PAPER MONEY SYSTEM IS NON COMPLIANCE
OPTING OUT OF THE PAPER MONEY SYSTEM IS NON COMPLIANCE
OPTING OUT OF THE PAPER MONEY SYSTEM IS NON COMPLIANCE
OPTING OUT OF THE PAPER MONEY SYSTEM IS NON COMPLIANCE


At this rate, with this type of thinking, we are indeed going to face difficult times. With more people believing that we're stuffed and helpless that is what we'll be. AND THEY'VE WON! I WILL NEVER GIVE IN.

For those of you who can't read the thread, who want to believe in Armarggedeon. Just stick to longlife products, build a bunker, buy seeds and give your cash away. Good luck to you all, it'll all be better in the next life anyway. I think 5 year's worth of supplies is the recommended amount. I'd love to know how everyone's getting along with storage.

Peace, love and see you in the mountains.

Aleternatively, so some study and ensage their system crumbling, with your ever increasing empowerment and billions of us not complying to their rules.

[368jrn]

enjoy hoarding your bullion, but you`ll be bolloxed if they try and do this again!:p

http://www.the-privateer.com/1933-gold-confiscation.html

[olas]

Well, I'm impressed at three things I've learned in this thread:

1. The amount of people who don't read the info in it.
2. The amount of people who state that you can't eat bullion.
3 The collective doom and gloom mindset that we appear to be going
toward the absolute mother of doomsday scenarios in non financial terms.

I DON'T THINK CASH IS VERY NUTRITIOUS
I DON'T THINK CASH IS VERY NUTRITIOUS
I DON'T THINK CASH IS VERY NUTRITIOUS
I DON'T THINK CASH IS VERY NUTRITIOUS
I DON'T THINK CASH IS VERY NUTRITIOUS
I DON'T THINK CASH IS VERY NUTRITIOUS
I DON'T THINK CASH IS VERY NUTRITIOUS

(For the hard of reading).

With a collective mindset that is set on taking us to the ultimate doomsday scenario, we will inevitably get there. People seem to be think that buying a few survival tools and food supplies is what's required. Well, I disagree. As David Icke says, it's more to do with mass non compliance.

OPTING OUT OF THE PAPER MONEY SYSTEM IS NON COMPLIANCE
OPTING OUT OF THE PAPER MONEY SYSTEM IS NON COMPLIANCE
OPTING OUT OF THE PAPER MONEY SYSTEM IS NON COMPLIANCE
OPTING OUT OF THE PAPER MONEY SYSTEM IS NON COMPLIANCE
OPTING OUT OF THE PAPER MONEY SYSTEM IS NON COMPLIANCE
OPTING OUT OF THE PAPER MONEY SYSTEM IS NON COMPLIANCE


At this rate, with this type of thinking, we are indeed going to face difficult times. With more people believing that we're stuffed and helpless that is what we'll be. AND THEY'VE WON! I WILL NEVER GIVE IN.

For those of you who can't read the thread, who want to believe in Armarggedeon. Just stick to longlife products, build a bunker, buy seeds and give your cash away. Good luck to you all, it'll all be better in the next life anyway. I think 5 year's worth of supplies is the recommended amount. I'd love to know how everyone's getting along with storage.

Peace, love and see you in the mountains.

Aleternatively, so some study and ensage their system crumbling, with your ever increasing empowerment and billions of us not complying to their rules.


Then, after all this hurricane has finished, how should i use gold, or silver, to pay my dinner?

Who can efectivly cash my profit?

I mean, i choose to follow your guess and i don´t look for others ways of trade, or live, etc...

What should i do with my gold and silver? To sell to whom?

Thanx for your time.

[kingmob]

Does anybody know whether I can still buy options on gold(go long)? What are my options to buy gold currently? Bullion available?

[griswald]

enjoy hoarding your bullion, but you`ll be bolloxed if they try and do this again!:p

http://www.the-privateer.com/1933-gold-confiscation.html

But your paper money will be well bolloxed long before that:D:D:D

griswald

[1694]

THings are just very very fucked at the moment.

So if we take a look in the printable column (A) we have:
Money

In the non printable column (B) we have:
Food
Land
Fuel
Medicine
Gold
Silver
Guns n Ammo
Livestock
Tools

If you had spent hours of toil gathering up units of whealth and you wanted to store them in something would you choose something from Column A which can be printed at will and multiplied many millions of times over at the press of a button so that everyone can have as much as you without doing any work, or Column B. Where the only way to create more is for someone else to put in as many hours toil as you already have to get yours.

(Hint: The answer is B.)


Also bear in mind items from Column B in your possession can't be used as a depostit for fractional reserves by commercial banks.

[1694]

enjoy hoarding your bullion, but you`ll be bolloxed if they try and do this again!:p

http://www.the-privateer.com/1933-gold-confiscation.html

The reason they would come for your gold when they already take your money in vast amounts in taxes is......because your money is worthless.

Think about it, if the money was worth anything they would just up the taxes and collect what they wanted off you. If they go to such drastic methods the writing is on the wall.

[olas]

THings are just very very fucked at the moment.

So if we take a look in the printable column (A) we have:
Money

In the non printable column (B) we have:
Food
Land
Fuel
Medicine
Gold
Silver
Guns n Ammo
Livestock
Tools

If you had spent hours of toil gathering up units of whealth and you wanted to store them in something would you choose something from Column A which can be printed at will and multiplied many millions of times over at the press of a button so that everyone can have as much as you without doing any work, or Column B. Where the only way to create more is for someone else to put in as many hours toil as you already have to get yours.

(Hint: The answer is B.)


Also bear in mind items from Column B in your possession can't be used as a depostit for fractional reserves by commercial banks.

What should i do with gold?
And with silver?
And with Guns and ammo (better roses?)

Did it work for good at the end of II WW? For Whom?
And after the IWW?

Are your afraid of what?

[1694]

Whatever you want, your paper money has no real use today but we still use it currency because up untill now it has been in limited supply and hard to forge. You could use any non perishable item as your new currency, but better something that is very hard to forge/reproduce and in limited supply.

Guns and ammo, ultimatly did solve bothe WW1 and 2, hence why we aren no longer fighting them. You don't have to go out on a killing spree just cos you own one, but if somone on a kiling spree comes into your house you might want one. Though I suppose you could just let them solve all your problems once and for all. They also have their role in hunting fo food.

[kingmob]

Can somebody answer my question?

Can I still buy gold anywhere? Can I buy gold options?

[olas]

Whatever you want, your paper money has no real use today but we still use it currency because up untill now it has been in limited supply and hard to forge. You could use any non perishable item as your new currency, but better something that is very hard to forge/reproduce and in limited supply.

Guns and ammo, ultimatly did solve bothe WW1 and 2, hence why we aren no longer fighting them. You don't have to go out on a killing spree just cos you own one, but if somone on a kiling spree comes into your house you might want one. Though I suppose you could just let them solve all your problems once and for all. They also have their role in hunting fo food.

You mean, change your way of life for hunting, doing whatever you want with gold, change gold(with who?) for the new currency, and kill your "enemy".

Who are you? The embassador of the NWO?

Do you ever thought about peace?

[griswald]

You mean, change your way of life for hunting, doing whatever you want with gold, change gold(with who?) for the new currency, and kill your "enemy".

Who are you? The embassador of the NWO?

Do you ever thought about peace?

Hi Olas,

I think the thread here is offering a valuable insight into peoples differing views on their approach to the value of todays paper currency , versus other available currencies. This information allows us to make an informed choice on the route we as individuals are likely to take.

Precious metals such as gold , silver, other currencies such as food ect, may well play a role at some time in the future, depending on the world stage at the time. At the moment , its clear that paper money has little or no value, and if thats all each of us has, we are watching our money disappearing before our eyes. So I think its wise at this time to consider additional options. And I think that is what other posters on the thread are giving us.

Its up to you to make the choice.

I personally am a peace loving human being. But unfortunately we are not all the same. There may come a time when you or your family are threatened for your food supplies after the doomsday hurricane.

At that precise moment you will be looking for 1694 and his guns,n,ammo.;)

griswald

[snakehips33]

I have been looking into investing in Gold lately. I spend a lot of my time in Cambodia and although they have paper money rather than put money into financial institutions people buy gold when they choose to invest, when they are short they sell gold in order to buy food, clothes, etc. These people have seen what happens when the world ends, money can lose it's value overnight, but Gold always retains it's value. They don't buy bullion or coins they buy jewellery. The craftmanship of the Khmers is stunning, i am looking into trading in Gold jewellery. I am also looking into custom made jewellery, i have Khmer connections and believe that i can have almost any design made by Khmer craftsmen. I find the jewellers fascinating, they are actually operating in a very similar way to banks. They make their profits by buying their goods back at a slightly lower rate than they sell them for. I have thought if i would be doing any damage to the industry by taking Gold out of the local market, but i believe that this wouldn't have bad consequnces, the value of the Gold in the local market would increase as the supply has dercreased meaning that the Gold is more expensive but the locals Gold would also be worth more. I'm not looking into a large scale operation. I want a small operation and to create a few jobs for the Khmers and to sell good quality jewellery to people who see Gold as a good investment.

[icke_is_right]

Can somebody answer my question?

Can I still buy gold anywhere? Can I buy gold options?

I took a couple of days off looking at this website. It's a subject quite close to my heart and I'm living/doing what I say on a fairly reasonable scale.

Best to buy physical gold:

www.coininvestdirect.com I've just had my first delivery. You join, order, then pay then they deliver. I've only had one item for a test. Now I've just ordered a lot more. Top company and affiliated with Perth Mint.

www.goldline.co.uk I've used a lot. Paperwork is necessary to join.

DO NOT BUY ANYTHING ON PAPER ONLY. Paper trading is for experienced traders but most have given up because of the manipulation. I've traded paper for the last 10 years. Very few people succeed. My advice is to buy with the view of holding for a number of years.

I'd prefer silver over gold as a first choice because the silver market has been bombed with govt. inventory for the last 60 years, now that's run out. Silver has a lot more uses and govts have less inventory of it around the world.

Hope this helps. Sorry to all if I lost my composure in my last thread. Like everyone, I get a bit frustrated.

[icke_is_right]

enjoy hoarding your bullion, but you`ll be bolloxed if they try and do this again!:p

http://www.the-privateer.com/1933-gold-confiscation.html

Again, do your study. I think about 1 person in the whole of the US got into actual trouble over this. Gold investors in the US are still advised to hold outside the US. I personally keep it at different places. It would take a small army of investigators to get my stash. Now times that by a few million.

Not likely.

I don't enjoy all the trouble I have gone to in my life to be have to hoard gold now. This is about survival, this is about sharing information, this is about us all.

[1694]

You mean, change your way of life for hunting, doing whatever you want with gold, change gold(with who?) for the new currency, and kill your "enemy".

Who are you? The embassador of the NWO?

Do you ever thought about peace?

Everyone accepts printed paper today even though the end product they want isn't paper. Loyalty points are currency, food stamps, fuel vouchers, they are simply a convenient means of trading the end comodities. There is an existing market, for PMs COMEX, FOREX, bullion and coin dealers, jewlers etc. Banks and governments buy and sell gold as a currency in both physical and paper form.

As you say the gold itself has no real use, but food is perishable, land is hard to hide and defend, medicine has a shelf life, building materials take up alot of room and can be produced relativly easily.

I suggest you plot a graph with house prices, share prices, oil prices and gold prices against the dollar. You will probably see a strong correlation, ask youself are prices going up or is the value of the dollar going down?

I gues one would use a gun to kill your "enimies", what makes them your enemy? The fact they worship a different god, have different colour skin? Please.

Pensioners are killed for £50, babies are beaten to death, banking gangsters have enslaved the population of the world, its all sunshine and lollipops out there, humans are all good, there is nothing to worry about. :rolleyes:

I live in peace.....it's those who wish to disturb my peace im worried about.

[icke_is_right]

THings are just very very fucked at the moment.

So if we take a look in the printable column (A) we have:
Money

In the non printable column (B) we have:
Food
Land
Fuel
Medicine
Gold
Silver
Guns n Ammo
Livestock
Tools

If you had spent hours of toil gathering up units of whealth and you wanted to store them in something would you choose something from Column A which can be printed at will and multiplied many millions of times over at the press of a button so that everyone can have as much as you without doing any work, or Column B. Where the only way to create more is for someone else to put in as many hours toil as you already have to get yours.

(Hint: The answer is B.)


Also bear in mind items from Column B in your possession can't be used as a depostit for fractional reserves by commercial banks.

I agree with a lot of this. My problem is that I want to be mobile and not tied down with a lot of stuff. I can't argue with making priorities. Maybe bullion is right down on your list. Everyone has to make that choice.

However, most people are not like this. They are unwitting sitting ducks (I am too because there is only so much you can do), they have paper pensions, savings, paper investments. If you have a lot of this stuff get something tangible with it even if it isn't bullion.

The only plus side of bullion is that there is a 'chance' that it will rocket in value compared to other things. I mean rocket eg. gold at $7000+ an ounce and silver at way over $100 maybe the same price as gold now. Actually it's infinite since cash is worth zero. This is because the price of bullion has been suppressed for years, (by you know who) is still suppressed and even now might be taken down further. I'm not bothered because I believe that eventually their ammo will run out. I think that we are very close to that situation, especially with silver.

[1694]

I agree with a lot of this. My problem is that I want to be mobile and not tied down with a lot of stuff. I can't argue with making priorities. Maybe bullion is right down on your list. Everyone has to make that choice.

However, most people are not like this. They are unwitting sitting ducks (I am too because there is only so much you can do), they have paper pensions, savings, paper investments. If you have a lot of this stuff get something tangible with it even if it isn't bullion.

The only plus side of bullion is that there is a 'chance' that it will rocket in value compared to other things. I mean rocket eg. gold at $7000+ an ounce and silver at way over $100 maybe the same price as gold now. Actually it's infinite since cash is worth zero. This is because the price of bullion has been suppressed for years, (by you know who) is still suppressed and even now might be taken down further. I'm not bothered because I believe that eventually their ammo will run out. I think that we are very close to that situation, especially with silver.

If gold rockets like that and cash is worth zero, bread will cost $20 a loaf or somesuch, tangable V tangable the trade will remain on a par, it's just paper that will dissapear down the crapper.

Your bullion will only buy you the same amount of another commodity as it would today, you cash bank balance on the other hand might not buy you the toilet roll it's printed on.

[icke_is_right]

If gold rockets like that and cash is worth zero, bread will cost $20 a loaf or somesuch, tangable V tangable the trade will remain on a par, it's just paper that will dissapear down the crapper.

Your bullion will only buy you the same amount of another commodity as it would today, you cash bank balance on the other hand might not buy you the toilet roll it's printed on.

What I think that you're talking about is keeping up with price inflation. What I think is that Bullion will not behave like any other commodity if the price suppression doesn't continue. It will rocket way beyond inflation as the herd exit (try to exit) the paper system at a later date. This should mean that you could end up with buying power far greater than inflation of normal goods.

No other commodity is suppressed in price as much as bullion.


On another note and this doesn't mean much because they have a large concentrated short position in bullion which they'll try to use....they might still bring the price down.....as normal.

This thread started when gold was $738 an ounce.

[1694]

What I think that you're talking about is keeping up with price inflation. What I think is that Bullion will not behave like any other commodity if the price suppression doesn't continue. It will rocket way beyond inflation as the herd exit (try to exit) the paper system at a later date. This should mean that you could end up with buying power far greater than inflation of normal goods.

No other commodity is suppressed in price as much as bullion.


On another note and this doesn't mean much because they have a large concentrated short position in bullion which they'll try to use....they might still bring the price down.....as normal.

This thread started when gold was $738 an ounce.


I think we are on the same page (or similar), however inflation is not the RPI or CPI they are just (deliberatly) shit attempts to measure inflation.

Actual inflation is the amount of new money in circulation, whislt PMs might outrun measures of inlfation they won't "beat inflation" their increase in dollar value will be almost exaclty equal to the increase in new money de valuing the the currency.

Honestly I expect other industrial commodities will fair just as well as PMs if not better. The problem is the lay man can't use PMs to pay the bills, they are well aware however of how to make and produce goods and services. When hyper inflation occurs, it is a race to the final product. Buy it, make it, sell it, SPEND IT.

[psych641]

Surviving Argentinas Economic Collapse 2001

If I could travel back in time, I’d buy a small bag of gold rings.

http://www.rapidtrends.com/blog/surving-argentinas-economic-collapse-part-1-3/

[icke_is_right]

Surviving Argentinas Economic Collapse 2001



http://www.rapidtrends.com/blog/surving-argentinas-economic-collapse-part-1-3/

A very good post. Interesting point about using gold rings as payment. I've got silver 1oz coins which might do something. I went for Krugerrands so I'd have internationally recognized money anywhere in the world. Admittedly, they are large increments of money.

Again, I don't like to envisage such things happening but if they do it's good to be prepared. Just reading this is interesting from the actual point of view from someone who has lived it.

Protecting your food in such a crisis could become quite difficult.

I'll add another link here on a different subject: Silver Backwardation stats.

http://lbma.org.uk/?area=stats&page=sifo/2008sifo

[1694]

Take a look at the market, since begining of Dec things have been getting very edgy. I do wonder if PMs are about to errupt, they are a fizzing firework right now, might shoot to the moon, might fizzle out, everyone is watching with nervously.

[icke_is_right]

I think things have been very volatile since the middle of Sept. I've seen it written that when we experience $45 swings in Gold priceson a regular basis, the short suppressors are loosing control.

The message boards are nervous. I found that there is a large amount of indecision amongst people. My only goal at present is to get as much bullion as possible in my possession. I'm nearly there with my full quota. My main worry would be not to have it. OK, we can discuss the psychology of fear and loss etc. but in the end, one part of my life is prepared for what I see as inevitable. I've mostly exited paper money.

I am prepared for the consequences of whatever happens. However, I think that when/if the lid does come off, there will be those with physical and those without. After this stage, most of those without will be set on the road to years of financial hardship from which the escape will be very tough. There is the chance that property will store some value but it's not certain. For me, as I mentioned in May when a member was talking about selling their house, I stated, I was short FTSE and I'd be out of property. Though I've exited this strat now, I only see property prices plummeting further in the years to come.

Now it's just a matter of waiting. I am impressed by the amount of nervousness on the message boards, I wonder what strategy people are generally employing. I'm thinking in terms of 4 years, maybe more.

The Comex situation is interesting. I don't put a lot of weight on this situation. I think physical buying all around the globe will eventually take it's toll. We might have the occassional big physical dumping but compared to the paper that's floating around, I think it will be quite tame.

[1694]

I think things have been very volatile since the middle of Sept. I've seen it written that when we experience $45 swings in Gold priceson a regular basis, the short suppressors are loosing control.

The message boards are nervous. I found that there is a large amount of indecision amongst people. My only goal at present is to get as much bullion as possible in my possession. I'm nearly there with my full quota. My main worry would be not to have it. OK, we can discuss the psychology of fear and loss etc. but in the end, one part of my life is prepared for what I see as inevitable. I've mostly exited paper money.

I am prepared for the consequences of whatever happens. However, I think that when/if the lid does come off, there will be those with physical and those without. After this stage, most of those without will be set on the road to years of financial hardship from which the escape will be very tough. There is the chance that property will store some value but it's not certain. For me, as I mentioned in May when a member was talking about selling their house, I stated, I was short FTSE and I'd be out of property. Though I've exited this strat now, I only see property prices plummeting further in the years to come.

Now it's just a matter of waiting. I am impressed by the amount of nervousness on the message boards, I wonder what strategy people are generally employing. I'm thinking in terms of 4 years, maybe more.

The Comex situation is interesting. I don't put a lot of weight on this situation. I think physical buying all around the globe will eventually take it's toll. We might have the occassional big physical dumping but compared to the paper that's floating around, I think it will be quite tame.

I still like property if you are mortgage free. People will always need a roof over their head, you only need a small amount of rent to have the property working for you when times are tough, and you can then up the rents when things pick up. This is an advantage of property over commods, it can still provide revenue without selling, it works for you regardless of market value.

Unless you have enough food though, farmers will be the new power players and you will give up your last ingot for your next meal.

[icke_is_right]

GOLD - PUTTING THE PIECES
OF THE PUZZLE TOGETHER

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/cliffkule/2008/1125.html

[olas]

Everyone accepts printed paper today even though the end product they want isn't paper. Loyalty points are currency, food stamps, fuel vouchers, they are simply a convenient means of trading the end comodities. There is an existing market, for PMs COMEX, FOREX, bullion and coin dealers, jewlers etc. Banks and governments buy and sell gold as a currency in both physical and paper form.

As you say the gold itself has no real use, but food is perishable, land is hard to hide and defend, medicine has a shelf life, building materials take up alot of room and can be produced relativly easily.

I suggest you plot a graph with house prices, share prices, oil prices and gold prices against the dollar. You will probably see a strong correlation, ask youself are prices going up or is the value of the dollar going down?

I gues one would use a gun to kill your "enimies", what makes them your enemy? The fact they worship a different god, have different colour skin? Please.

Pensioners are killed for £50, babies are beaten to death, banking gangsters have enslaved the population of the world, its all sunshine and lollipops out there, humans are all good, there is nothing to worry about. :rolleyes:

I live in peace.....it's those who wish to disturb my peace im worried about.


May be you didn´t realize that this kind of information (volatility, COMEX, FOREX) is the hermetic way to keep everyone away of the true. What you are doing, and your fella, is to keep the interest in market shares and after the hurricane finishes, to buy what rests for good prices. Rockfeller tought you?

You are sawing the seeds of fear (killed for £50, babies are beaten to death, banking gangsters have enslaved the population of the wo...), and finally you sell the unique solution understandable GOLD. (Problem, reaction and solution) Is Icke right in that too?

Try to free yourself, and believe that the only way to have a peacefull and plenty life is to avoiding to be smart than the others.

I don´t want gold, nor silver. I really want that you become free of your plasma TV.

Peace.

[icke_is_right]

Russians Buy Jewelry, Hoard Dollars as Ruble Plunges

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a_W0d8XewdGY&
refer=home

Switzerland may have to print money to stave off deflation

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/3710374/Switzerland-may-have-to-print-money-to-stave-off-deflation.html

[1694]

May be you didn´t realize that this kind of information (volatility, COMEX, FOREX) is the hermetic way to keep everyone away of the true. What you are doing, and your fella, is to keep the interest in market shares and after the hurricane finishes, to buy what rests for good prices. Rockfeller tought you?

You are sawing the seeds of fear (killed for £50, babies are beaten to death, banking gangsters have enslaved the population of the wo...), and finally you sell the unique solution understandable GOLD. (Problem, reaction and solution) Is Icke right in that too?

Try to free yourself, and believe that the only way to have a peacefull and plenty life is to avoiding to be smart than the others.

I don´t want gold, nor silver. I really want that you become free of your plasma TV.

Peace.

and i wish to live in a world free of fear. I can be that change, I don't think anyone is afraid of me, but that is only half the problem.

What's wrong with a plasma TV? LCD is more popular I guess as it's cheaper, but neither are intrinsically evil, they are inert.

Is a painting evil? A book? a Sunset? I enjoy looking at all those things, none of them come for "free" even the sunset requires me to have eaten enough to be alive at the end of the day.

You say I sow the seads of fear? I didn't do any of the listed things, yet they have happened. Have I not just shared information? It is up to you if YOU are afraid of those consequences. I haven't made you scared, you are scared, your body produced the chemicals and electrical impulses.

Why is fear bad? Fear keeps you alive. Is being alive bad? You seem to think it is, you don't like the idea of anyone surviving the hurricane. Maybe you should kill yourself, you might be happier.

People are just people, they aren't intrinsically good, or bad, they are just people. What makes a person good or bad is what they do.

Let us see what people do.

If you want to be able to help others at least make sure you can look after youself first otherwise you are just a burden on those you thought you were going to help.

[olas]

and i wish to live in a world free of fear. I can be that change, I don't think anyone is afraid of me, but that is only half the problem.

What's wrong with a plasma TV? LCD is more popular I guess as it's cheaper, but neither are intrinsically evil, they are inert.

Is a painting evil? A book? a Sunset? I enjoy looking at all those things, none of them come for "free" even the sunset requires me to have eaten enough to be alive at the end of the day.

You say I sow the seads of fear? I didn't do any of the listed things, yet they have happened. Have I not just shared information? It is up to you if YOU are afraid of those consequences. I haven't made you scared, you are scared, your body produced the chemicals and electrical impulses.

Why is fear bad? Fear keeps you alive. Is being alive bad? You seem to think it is, you don't like the idea of anyone surviving the hurricane. Maybe you should kill yourself, you might be happier.

People are just people, they aren't intrinsically good, or bad, they are just people. What makes a person good or bad is what they do.

Let us see what people do.

If you want to be able to help others at least make sure you can look after youself first otherwise you are just a burden on those you thought you were going to help.



"Maybe you should kill yourself" + "If you want to be able to help others at least make sure you can look after youself" = You wish me dead?

"What's wrong with a plasma TV?" + " I can be that change" = You look better in a plasma tv?

"...and i wish to live in a world free of fear" + "Fear keeps you alive" = dead world?

Can you, or anyone, PLEASE, tell me how i will pay my dinner with gold?
If you wanna answer that the nowadays bankers will buy my gold with credit card, i will accept.

With love,
Olas.

[griswald]

[QUOTE=olas;664514

Can you, or anyone, PLEASE, tell me how i will pay my dinner with gold?
If you wanna answer that the nowadays bankers will buy my gold with credit card, i will accept.

With love,
Olas.[/QUOTE]

Give me yer gold, and I,ll cook you the best slap up meal you ever had:p

griswald

[1694]

"Maybe you should kill yourself" + "If you want to be able to help others at least make sure you can look after youself" = You wish me dead?
No, but you seem to feel guilty about being alive.



"What's wrong with a plasma TV?" + " I can be that change" = You look better in a plasma tv?

With my looks, I look great in anything. (Honestly I don'd understand the question)

"...and i wish to live in a world free of fear" + "Fear keeps you alive" = dead world?

Different world.

Can you, or anyone, PLEASE, tell me how i will pay my dinner with gold?
If you wanna answer that the nowadays bankers will buy my gold with credit card, i will accept.
Ill gladly trade you food and/or services for gold

With love,
Olas.
.

[olas]

Give me yer gold, and I,ll cook you the best slap up meal you ever had:p

griswald

Should i bring my bag full of fool´s gold coins?

[olas]

.

Thanx, how´s the tomato?
May be you should get the tomato´s price at your plasma tv.

[olas]

Russians Buy Jewelry, Hoard Dollars as Ruble Plunges

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a_W0d8XewdGY&
refer=home

Switzerland may have to print money to stave off deflation

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/3710374/Switzerland-may-have-to-print-money-to-stave-off-deflation.html

Do you still beliving in that?
I know a guy that can teach you something, he´s called Tin Tin.

[griswald]

Should i bring my bag full of fool´s gold coins?

Sure only a fool would collect fools gold;)

griswald

[icke_is_right]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article5292547.ece

From The Sunday Times
December 7, 2008
Vauxhall Insignia 2.8 V6
An adequate way to drive to hell
Vauxhall Insignia
Image :1 of 2
Jeremy Clarkson

I was in Dublin last weekend, and had a very real sense I’d been invited to the last days of the Roman empire. As far as I could work out, everyone had a Rolls-Royce Phantom and a coat made from something that’s now extinct. And then there were the women. Wow. Not that long ago every girl on the Emerald Isle had a face the colour of straw and orange hair. Now it’s the other way around.

Everyone appeared to be drunk on naked hedonism. I’ve never seen so much jus being drizzled onto so many improbable things, none of which was potted herring. It was like Barcelona but with beer. And as I careered from bar to bar all I could think was: “Jesus. Can’t they see what’s coming?”

Ireland is tiny. Its population is smaller than New Zealand’s, so how could the Irish ever have generated the cash for so many trips to the hairdressers, so many lobsters and so many Rollers? And how, now, as they become the first country in Europe to go officially into recession, can they not see the financial meteorite coming? Why are they not all at home, singing mournful songs?

It’s the same story on this side of the Irish Sea, of course. We’re all still plunging hither and thither, guzzling wine and wondering what preposterously expensive electronic toys the children will want to smash on Christmas morning this year. We can’t see the meteorite coming either.

I think mainly this is because the government is not telling us the truth. It’s painting Gordon Brown as a global economic messiah and fiddling about with Vat, pretending that the coming recession will be bad. But that it can deal with it.

I don’t think it can. I have spoken to a couple of pretty senior bankers in the past couple of weeks and their story is rather different. They don’t refer to the looming problems as being like 1992 or even 1929. They talk about a total financial meltdown. They talk about the End of Days.

Already we are seeing household names disappearing from the high street and with them will go the suppliers whose names have only ever been visible behind the grime on motorway vans. The job losses will mount. And mount. And mount. And as they climb, the bad debt will put even more pressure on the banks until every single one of them stutters and fails.

The European banks took one hell of a battering when things went wrong in America. Imagine, then, how life will be when the crisis arrives on this side of the Atlantic. Small wonder one City figure of my acquaintance ordered three safes for his London house just last week.

Of course, you may imagine the government will simply step in and nationalise everything, but to do that, it will have to borrow. And when every government is doing the same thing, there simply won’t be enough cash in the global pot. You can forget Iceland. From what I gather, Spain has had it. Along with Italy, Ireland and very possibly the UK.

It is impossible for someone who scored a U in his economics A-level to grapple with the consequences of all this but I’m told that in simple terms money will cease to function as a meaningful commodity. The binary dots and dashes that fuel the entire system will flicker and die. And without money there will be no business. No means of selling goods. No means of transporting them. No means of making them in the first place even. That’s why another friend of mine has recently sold his London house and bought somewhere in the country . . . with a kitchen garden.

These, as I see them, are the facts. Planet Earth thought it had £10. But it turns out we had only £2. Which means everyone must lose 80% of their wealth. And that’s going to be a problem if you were living on the breadline beforehand.

Eventually, of course, the system will reboot itself, but for a while there will be absolute chaos: riots, lynchings, starvation. It’ll be a world without power or fuel, and with no fuel there’s no way the modern agricultural system can be maintained. Which means there will be no food either. You might like to stop and think about that for a while.

I have, and as a result I can see the day when I will have to shoot some of my neighbours - maybe even David Cameron - as we fight for the last bar of Fry’s Turkish Delight in the smoking ruin that was Chipping Norton’s post office.

I believe the government knows this is a distinct possibility and that it might happen next year, and there is absolutely nothing it can do to stop Cameron getting both barrels from my Beretta. But instead of telling us straight, it calls the crisis the “credit crunch” to make it sound like a breakfast cereal and asks Alistair Darling to smile and big up Gordon when he’s being interviewed.

I can’t say I blame it, really. If an enormous meteorite was heading our way and the authorities knew it couldn’t be stopped or diverted, why bother telling anyone? Best to let us soldier on in the dark until it all goes dark for real.

On a more cheery note, Vauxhall has stopped making the Vectra, that dreary, designed-in-a-coffee-break Eurobox that no one wanted. In its place stands the new Insignia, which has been voted European car of the year for 2009.

This award is made by motoring journalists across Europe, and, with the best will in the world, the Swedes do not want the same thing from a car as the Greeks. That’s why they almost always get it wrong. Past winners have been the Talbot Horizon and the Renault 9.

They’ve got the Insignia even more wrong than usual because the absolutely last thing anyone wants right now, and I’m including in the list consumption, a severed artery and a massive shark bite, is a four-door saloon car with a bargain-basement badge.

Oh it’s not a bad car. It’s extremely good-looking, it appears to be very well made, it is spacious and the prices are reasonable. But set against that are seats that are far too hard, the visibility - you can’t see the corners of the car from the driver’s chair - and the solid, inescapable fact that the Ford Mondeo is a more joyful thing to drive.

In the past, none of this would have mattered. Fleet managers would have bought 100 of whichever was the cheapest, and Jenkins from Pots, Pans and Pyrex would have had no say in the matter. Those days, however, are gone. The travelling salesman is now an internet address, and the mini MPV has bopped the traditional saloon on the head. I cannot think of the question in today’s climate to which the answer is “A Vauxhall Insignia”. And I’m surprised my colleagues on the car of the year jury didn’t notice this as well.

Then I keep remembering the Renault 9 and I’m not surprised at all.

I feel, I really do, for the bosses at GM who’ve laboured so hard to make this car. It’s way better than the Vectra. It looks as though they were bothered. But asking their dealerships to sell such a thing in today’s world is a bit like asking men in the first world war trenches to charge the enemy’s machinegun nests with spears.

Right now, there are two paths you can go down. You can either adopt the Irish attitude to the impending catastrophe and party like it’s 1999. In which case you are better off ignoring the Vauxhall and buying a 24ft Donzi speedboat instead.

Or you can actually start to make some sensible preparations for the complete breakdown in society. In which case you don’t want a Vauxhall either. Better to spend the money on a pair of shotguns and an allotment.

The Clarksometer

Vauxhall Insignia 2.8 V6 4x4 Elite Nav

ENGINE 2792cc, six cylinders

POWER 256bhp @ 5500rpm

TRANSMISSION 258 lb ft @ 1900rpm

FUEL 24.4mpg (combined)

CO2 272g/km

ACCELERATION 0-60mph: 6.7sec

TOP SPEED 155mph

PRICE £28,280

ROAD TAX BAND G (£400 a year)

RELEASE DATE On sale now

Clarkson’s Verdict Who cares? We’re all doomed anyway

[icke_is_right]

Do you still beliving in that?
I know a guy that can teach you something, he´s called Tin Tin.

Olas, you're entitled to think what you will. You've made your point, I've made mine. I understand the ideas around fear and money etc.. I don't believe most things in the press but the majority of people still do, so it's worth considering.

I'm not fearful. Actually I feel quite excited. Whilst the papers are full of doom and gloom, I've protected mostly protected myself from the latest EURGBP move and in terms of wealth protection, I'm doing quite well and my buying power is increasing.

This isn't for everyone and I agree that the simplest things in life are the best, hence I love running, cycling, eating veggie food and having a simple existance.

I'm also a total drop out. I don't do most of the things that people do to survive everyday. I don't have a job, I'm not registered where I live etc.. I'm quite far out of the system without being a Freeman of the Land.

I would imagine that my fear rating is well down compared to a lot of people here but that doesn't make me better than anyone.

I hope that you're not frightened.

[icke_is_right]

Comex said warning brokers about December gold squeeze
Submitted by cpowell on Sat, 2008-12-13 04:11. Section: Daily Dispatches

From "Midas" Commentary
by Bill Murphy
LeMetropoleCafe.com
Friday, December 12, 2008

I received a call this morning from a commodities broker who told me that the Comex is alerting various futures firms about the potential of a squeeze on the December contract and is advising the $840 December shorts to exit their positions. That is the remaining open position.

There have been 12,636 notices of delivery. The shorts have until December 31 to make delivery. Normally they deliver early to take in cash and earn the interest. They must be delaying. As I understand the situation, that represents about 40 percent of the gold available at the Comex, and of course someone could enter the scene late, buy February gold, and then spread into December, which would stun the shorts.

My broker friend said his back office said this sort of alert is highly unusual and that the concern is real, not only for gold, but for other commodities too, like copper and palladium, as there is a good deal of talk of taking deliveries there too. But gold is the one for which the advice to cover went out.

This is an extremely productive development and could spur the price of gold up quickly as word spreads. As we all know, buying Comex gold and silver (the cheapest way to buy precious metals) makes all the sense in the world in this financial environment.

[olas]

Olas, you're entitled to think what you will. You've made your point, I've made mine. I understand the ideas around fear and money etc.. I don't believe most things in the press but the majority of people still do, so it's worth considering.

I'm not fearful. Actually I feel quite excited. Whilst the papers are full of doom and gloom, I've protected mostly protected myself from the latest EURGBP move and in terms of wealth protection, I'm doing quite well and my buying power is increasing.

This isn't for everyone and I agree that the simplest things in life are the best, hence I love running, cycling, eating veggie food and having a simple existance.

I'm also a total drop out. I don't do most of the things that people do to survive everyday. I don't have a job, I'm not registered where I live etc.. I'm quite far out of the system without being a Freeman of the Land.

I would imagine that my fear rating is well down compared to a lot of people here but that doesn't make me better than anyone.

I hope that you're not frightened.

Now we are talking.
You told your ways of living and realize that your rating of fear is well down when compared. Do you see any relation between way of live and fear?
Why do you think that is important to keep gold and silver after all? May be or a new begin?
A believe that you already had a new begin when you choose a simple way of life.
Let the gold for the sun. And the silver for the rain.

[1694]

What's wrong with fear? Many people love it, I enjoy adrenalin sports, I often do things just to overcome my fear of doing them.

Love hurts so many people the world over. We've all had our hearts broken, it sucked. Thanks love.

I think a bit more fear would do us all the world of good, maybe more people would take care of themselfes instead of loving the "benevolent" government and placing their trust in it. Fear protects you, love exposes you....ask youself who would be pushing the "love" agenda, those that want you not to defend yourself and will take advantage of you.

This crap about love being better than fear is like saying red is better than blue, totally meaningless. They both serve their purpose and should go hand in hand.

[icke_is_right]

I've just been past a Lidl budget supermarket and seen that they are offering 1/2 oz gold coins at E379*

Make of it what you will. That's expensive compared to other deals but talk about bringing gold direct to the public.

[pinkfreud]

Trilateral Plan to Corner World Gold Market?

By Patrick Wood, Editor

December 9, 2008

Since 1973, this writer has made inquiry as to the location and ownership of the vast stores of monetary gold (400 oz., .999 pure bars) in the world. There has not been a formal audit on Fort Knox, for instance, since the Eisenhower administration. Official statistics on gold holdings are often contradictory. Getting plain answers from any Central Bank in the world, including the Fed, is virtually impossible.

This paper points out a pattern of manipulation that has been clearly observed by many people. However, patterns do not exist in a vacuum, but rather they are evidence of the existence of a stable and consistent methodology. Clearly, more study needs to be done in identifying the finer parts of the methodology and its designers, but this is a good start!
When Richard Nixon canceled the Bretton Woods system in 1971, exchangeability of paper dollars for gold was terminated. In 1970 alone, available gold vs. dollars outstanding had shrunk from 55 to 22 percent, thus exerting pressure for investors to switch to gold to avoid further dilution of dollar assets.

Although the economic and financial experts swore that gold was an outmoded, ineffective and useless financial asset, cooler heads knew better. In recent years, these same experts have reversed field and are now proclaiming that gold is still, and always has been, a consistent monetary asset. Why the flip-flop?

The economic chaos in the world today is a direct result of policies set in motion to foster a New International Economic Order (NIEO). The NIEO was the explicit creation of the Trilateral Commission, founded by David Rockefeller and Zbigniew Brzezinski in 1973, and their early papers and task force reports clearly asserted their NIEO plans.






This is a MUST READ article. brilliant. didn't want to post the whole thing coz it's rather long, so more here: http://www.augustreview.com/issues/globalization/trilaterals_cornering_gold_market?_20081209107/

[icke_is_right]

Great article, I've taken the conclusions out and put them in since it is a long one. The only thing that I would note is this; they banks/institutions seem to have less control of silver, ie it's mostly in the private domain already.

The debate on Gold backwardation is still going but with Silver it appears to be happening.

Would anyone disagree that by buying Gold/Silver, you are undermining their system? I believe you are but also potentially looking after yourself too. I think that it's a win, win way of doing something if you've got some cash.

http://www.augustreview.com

Trilateral Plan to Corner World Gold Market?

Conclusion

If Fekete is correct, and he has seldom been wrong, then the trap is snapping shut on who will own the gold in 2009. Free-market supplies of gold are drying up, but the price is being kept low as global institutions sop up whatever crumbs are left.

Several very serious implications can be drawn:

* The massive amounts of gold leased to bullion banks will ultimately be seized by these same banks as collateral against worthless paper loans made to the Central Banks.
* Central Banks (including the Federal Reserve) could well be left to disintegrate in order to give way to a single global central bank controlled and fueled by the bullion banks who have Monopoly control over the world's gold.
* These superbanks are all closely tied to the goals and membership of the Trilateral Commission, whose members have methodically carried out a monetary policy designed to bring about this eventuality.
* For all practical intent, individuals will be frozen out of the gold market at any price.

Indeed, a global totalitarian state may be closer than we think; as the globalist's golden rule states, "He who has the gold, makes the rules."

[olas]

What's wrong with fear? Many people love it, I enjoy adrenalin sports, I often do things just to overcome my fear of doing them.

Love hurts so many people the world over. We've all had our hearts broken, it sucked. Thanks love.

I think a bit more fear would do us all the world of good, maybe more people would take care of themselfes instead of loving the "benevolent" government and placing their trust in it. Fear protects you, love exposes you....ask youself who would be pushing the "love" agenda, those that want you not to defend yourself and will take advantage of you.

This crap about love being better than fear is like saying red is better than blue, totally meaningless. They both serve their purpose and should go hand in hand.


If you wanna talk about love and fear we can do this, but in another trheat, or private. But i will never wish you fear, just love.

The point in this threat is that your fella, IIR, and yourself still beliving that a NWO wil be achieved and both wants a new begin full of gold and silver (fool´s food) in your pockets. Take care because i saw people drawing with it´s weight.

Forget this man. The only way possible is to share, but for sharing i have to know who are you, not how much you have.

Let the gold for the sun...

[icke_is_right]

Forget this man. The only way possible is to share, but for sharing i have to know who are you, not how much you have.


Give a man a fish, he eats for a day.
Teach a man to fish and he eats for life.

Millions of people will soon realise that the government will not be able to look after them. This thread is about people taking control of their finances and helping themselves. Then perhaps they'll be more able to help others.

[jayelowell]

F/S
contact me if anybody is intrested...
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii212/jayelowell/CIMG0568.jpg?t=1229359760

[olas]

Give a man a fish, he eats for a day.
Teach a man to fish and he eats for life.

Millions of people will soon realise that the government will not be able to look after them. This thread is about people taking control of their finances and helping themselves. Then perhaps they'll be more able to help others.

Give a man a fish, he eats for a day.
Teach a man to fish and he eats for life.

Milions of people will soon realise that the government never did, and will never be able to look after them. This thread is about people using gold as safe boat and helping the market reborn faster. Then perhaps some will cash a lot of profit in the moment of turn back gold in pre-paied credit cards.

Change your money for a bicycle. Golden bicycle if you wish...

[dreamweaver]

icke is right, is it worth buying quality secondhand jewellery and ornaments etc, especially old 22ct gold rings, that kind of thing? I guess modern crap won't hold it's value so well.

Or would I be better off sticking to coins and bullion bars? I don't have a lot of spare cash to play with, so I can't afford to get my fingers burned with this.

[griswald]

[QUOTE=olas;670202]

Forget this man. The only way possible is to share, but for sharing i have to know who are you, not how much you have.

QUOTE]

Olas,

But instead of sharing, are you not judging.

The thread is informative about the advantages/ disadvantages of one curency over another. And is there for people,s own discernment. Are you not judging their validity of their choices.

If you believe in no need for any currency, with what will you share with me, when I have an empty belly.

griswald

[icke_is_right]

Surviving Argentinas Economic Collapse 2001



http://www.rapidtrends.com/blog/surving-argentinas-economic-collapse-part-1-3/


psych641 did this post on page 8 concerning jewellery. I don't know much about jewellery so I can't help you there. The Argentinian writer says he wished that he'd had gold rings to trade with during the crisis of 2001.

What I do like are small denominations. I've bought silver 1oz coins (999 Silver) . I got mine for about £10 (12 Euros) each but I went around coin dealers in Germany to get them. I quickly cleared out the stock in the local surrounding dealers. I went to Hannover coin fair a couple of weeks ago and most dealers were asking average 14 Euros+, mainly 15 Euros.

Silver Eagles from the USA seem to be the most popular followed by Canadian Maples and then Aussies (1oz silver coins). I got some Mexican too which aren't popular but I love the look of, they've got great designs on them. I love my Aussie ones apart from the Queens head on the back!

The best silver coins are in plastic holders and shiny/clean. I've got some blacked ones which I'm not bothered about cleaning but will buy an Aldi jewellery cleaner which is non chemical for later on....Don't use chemicals.

I really don't believe that you need many of these coins. It's pointless to predict what price that they could go to. I think the main objective should be to have something more solid than cash. However, the suppression of the silver price over the last 60 years, seems to be coming to an end. Don't stress, buy what you're willing to risk.

[icke_is_right]

http://news.silverseek.com/TedButler/1229450490.php

Flight To Safety First

By: Theodore Butler

We live in perilous financial times. If you are not alarmed with the flow of financial events, then you are just not paying attention. The problems are serious and growing, the solutions limited. It’s as if everything that could go wrong, has gone wrong. I’d much prefer to write of a growing domestic and world economy, with increased demand for silver. But financial and economic headwinds have converged to interrupt world growth.

What does this portend for silver? As I have written recently, the current bad news is good news for silver. That’s due to silver’s unique dual role as a vital industrial commodity, as well as an age-old investment asset that the world has always turned to when times get tough. When times are good, silver can be compared with natural resources, like copper and oil. When times are bad, silver should be compared to gold as a financial lifesaver. Sad to say, times are bad. To highlight just how bad, I’d like to reference some recent events and what I think they portend for silver.

There is a worldwide flight into assets of quality. This is no minor event, it is a tsunami. In the past week, demand for four-week U.S. Treasury Bills, considered by many to be the ultimate flight to quality asset, was so great that investors bought them at auction for the lowest yield in history - zero percent. In other words, investors in these securities were willing to forgo any return on the $30 billion purchased, for the promise of the return of the principal amount. The demand for the return of principal for these securities was so great that investors bid for four times the amount actually sold. None of us has ever witnessed this kind of demand for such low-yielding securities. Safety is the name of the game.

It is easy to see why the safety of one’s financial assets is suddenly all-important. The news is truly rotten and wealth is disappearing before our eyes. It is estimated that already more than $10 trillion ($10,000 billion) of value has been lost in the world market decline so far. Governments around the world, including the U.S., have responded with trillions of dollars of bailouts, stimulus and massive deficit spending programs. The scale and scope of the destruction of asset values and the offsetting financial injections are almost beyond our ability to grasp. Mind-boggling is not an overstatement.

Unlike government securities and unlike gold, the value of silver is sharply lower this year. That decline is not the result of the selling of physical silver, but of the paper variety on the COMEX. In fact, compared to gold, the physical shortage and premiums on various forms of retail silver are higher and delays in some cases are longer. This may prove that physical silver is tighter than gold. The price decline in silver, relative to gold, indicates silver is dramatically undervalued to gold.

This is not a knock on gold. All the conditions appear in place for a big gold price rise. The market structure on the COMEX, the growing physical demand, the palpable fear in the air, all point to gold as an important go-to asset. Gold holds no counterparty risk and that’s especially relevant in the current climate. All the positives about gold apply to silver, in spades. Silver is rarer and scarcer than gold and it sells for less than 1.5% of the price of gold. So, if you like gold, you should love silver.

Gold is finite and there are physical limitations on creating more. Compare this to the infinite amounts of paper and electronic money being created out of thin air. Recently, I have read sober analysis that suggests gold will be priced at multiples of its current price due to the rapid expansion of monetary reserves. Take those same calculations and apply them to a comparison of gold versus silver. This is an oversight that creates a special opportunity for those that investigate the facts. Dollar for dollar, there is 400 times more gold than silver in the world. Let that one fact sink in and everything else will fall into place.

The next time you read of hundreds of billions, or trillions of dollars of bailouts and government simulative spending, remember there is only $10 billion of silver bullion in the entire world. And very little of that is available for sale, as it is strongly held by true silver believers. The inevitable rush to safety into such a small pool of metal will send the price soaring.

Warning Signs

By now, the world is aware of the largest Ponzi scheme in history, the alleged $50 billion fraud by Bernard Madoff, a fixture on Wall Street for almost 50 years, and of special significance for silver. Madoff was widely respected and trusted by his clients. The pain of betrayal compounds the financial devastation. Knowing you have been cheated makes it much worse. Victims include well-known individuals, charitable organizations, hedge funds and banks. It is said to be the largest investment fraud in history. This will only accentuate the flight to safety. The more people reflect on this episode, the more they will be motivated to buy gold and silver. For thousands of years, gold and silver have been trusted assets in times of distrust. Silver (and gold) may go up or down, but they can’t defraud you.

There are some remarkable similarities between the Madoff fraud and the manipulation that I have alleged in silver for the past 20 years. Both have occurred over long periods of times. Both involved sophisticated investors, including individuals and institutions. Both occurred under the nose of government regulators expressly created to prevent such frauds - the SEC in the Madoff fraud and the CFTC in the silver manipulation. Both regulators were given numerous public warnings of wrongdoing for many years. Both agencies neglected to look into the allegations or investigated and found nothing wrong.

Of course, there are differences. All are now aware of the Madoff fraud while only a few thousand are aware of the COMEX fraud. It is not a mainstream media event. The SEC is under intense and well-deserved criticism for its failure to regulate and terminate the fraud. Criticism of the CFTC will come in the future.

Another difference between the Madoff and COMEX silver frauds is that evidence of fraud was largely concealed by Madoff, while the evidence of fraud in COMEX silver is contained in government data. There was no readily available public data that would have made it easy to see that Madoff was running a fraud. Some sophisticated investors did investigate and steered clear after performing their due diligence. In silver, the data contained in the CFTC’s Bank Participation and Commitment of Traders Reports are all that a reasonable person needs to see. These freely accessible reports clearly indicate a concentrated short position in COMEX silver far beyond anything held in any other commodity. Rather than offer a plausible explanation for how one or two U.S. banks holding 25% of the annual world production of any commodity could not be manipulating, the CFTC instead stalled and began a drawn out investigation during which silver investors were devastated.

Sadly, for Madoff investors, it is too late. For silver investors, it is starkly different. The manipulation has caused prices to nosedive, but this same fraud promises phenomenal future returns. When the Madoff fraud was revealed, it was all over, the money was gone. In silver, when the fraud is universally recognized, the payday for silver investors will have just begun. We will then have embarked on the long-term journey of sharply higher prices that rewards all silver investors properly positioned. With Madoff, not being in was the key. With silver, being in is all that matters. Make sure you are in.

The only real risk facing silver investors is how you hold your metal. This Madoff affair should wake up metals investors holding pool or certificate accounts with no serial numbers. Hold your silver in your personal possession or in bona fide storage. Don’t store your metal with the dealer you purchased it from. The storage agent must be separate and distinct from the sales agent. The big problem with Madoff is that he held everyone’s funds. When he went under, everyone’s money went under with him. As certain as I am of silver’s coming price advance, I am equally certain that many silver investors will lose their money by holding bogus accounts. You have one of the great opportunities of a lifetime with silver. Don’t expose your profit potential to unnecessary risk.

[dreamweaver]

icke is right, we obviously need to prepare on several fronts and not put all our eggs in one basket, i.e. need to stockpile things like long-life food (e.g. rice) and various survival tools as well as gold and silver. What would you suggest as a bare minimum to invest in gold and silver for people of fairly limited means?

I've found a reputable coin dealer within a reasonable distance who sells mint silver eagles, maples, britannias etc for £14 each. That seems to be a good price for the UK right now, especially from a reputable dealer. They are going for more than that on Ebay, plus postage on top and of course Ebay is much riskier.

There is a local antique shop selling various old coins and I have my eye on a 1960s gold sovereign going for £140. That's a good price for a sovereign, as long as it's not fake. The problem is that coin experts warn that antique dealers don't know jack shit about coins so it's too much of a gamble. :(

So I might be better off going for antique rings for my gold quota.

[jayelowell]

F/S
contact me if anybody is intrested...
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii212/jayelowell/CIMG0568.jpg?t=1229359760
:eek: anybody?

[psych641]

There is a local antique shop selling various old coins and I have my eye on a 1960s gold sovereign going for £140. That's a good price for a sovereign, as long as it's not fake. The problem is that coin experts warn that antique dealers don't know jack shit about coins so it's too much of a gamble. :(

So I might be better off going for antique rings for my gold quota.

thats a very good price, the ring itself would probably contain several grams of 9carat gold. You would have to see if the dealer agreed to unmounting the coin for quick weighing & measurement - its not difficult, you just prise open the clasps with some tweezers or something - there might be an objection on the grounds that repeated open/closing would snap one of the mounts.

You also need to make sure its a full sovereign & not a 1/2!

[dreamweaver]

thats a very good price, the ring itself would probably contain several grams of 9carat gold. You would have to see if the dealer agreed to unmounting the coin for quick weighing & measurement - its not difficult, you just prise open the clasps with some tweezers or something - there might be an objection on the grounds that repeated open/closing would snap one of the mounts.

You also need to make sure its a full sovereign & not a 1/2!
It's not a ring, it's just the sovereign on its own and it's definitely a full one. :)

I've looked up the data and this is what it should be apparently:

* Weight: 7.9881 grams
* Thickness: 1.52 mm
* Diameter: 22.05 mm
* Actual Gold Content 7.3224 grams - 91.6% fineness

[psych641]

:eek: anybody?

If someone is buying PMs as an investment or security, they'll want to know 2 main things - what is it & how much of it there is ;) Then (after calculating the scrap value) theyll consider whether their prepared to pay a premium for an attractive or collectable piece.

[psych641]

It's not a ring, it's just the sovereign on its own and it's definitely a full one. :)

I've looked up the data and this is what it should be apparently:

* Weight: 7.9881 grams
* Thickness: 1.52 mm
* Diameter: 22.05 mm
* Actual Gold Content 7.3224 grams - 91.6% fineness

I would say if you have digi scales, a metal ruler (or idealy presise calipers) & a steady hand/clear eye that would be enough verification for me. (ive done a bit of reading on forums & this seemed to be the concensus, i dont claim to be an expert myself though!) On coininvestdirect.com they sell using live prices & sovereigns are currently selling for £145-148 + P&P (but you have no idea of the condition) & they seem to be buying for £130. So £140 cash is a fair price, but its not exactly a steal.

The best 'survivalist' gold is going to be small items of 9ct hallmarked scrap like wedding rings & earings. Your more likely to get ripped off as its harder for the layman assertain purity etc, but hopefully itll just be the odd £10 that gets lost iyswim. Dealers are currently buying hallmarked 9ct scrap at £5-6/g. You could use that as a guide if you have time to look around for hallmarked jewellery.

http://www.scrap-gold-buyers.co.uk/apply/calculate.html?weight=1&carat=9
http://www.thegoldexchange.co.uk/User/Login.aspx
http://www.goldline.co.uk/scrapPage.page

It depends where you think things are going - if you envisage yourself walking into a dealers shop someday to cash in, then bullion will have protected your wealth far more efficiently that scrap (which incurs refinement cost & hasle somewhere down the supply line)

If you envisage the economy collapsing to the point of turn of the century argentina (or worse) & your bartering for desperately needed supplies, then scrap items weighing a gram or two act as small change (protecting your investment) & dont mark you out as someone with a big stash (protecting you from torture!).

[icke_is_right]

icke is right, we obviously need to prepare on several fronts and not put all our eggs in one basket, i.e. need to stockpile things like long-life food (e.g. rice) and various survival tools as well as gold and silver. What would you suggest as a bare minimum to invest in gold and silver for people of fairly limited means?

I've found a reputable coin dealer within a reasonable distance who sells mint silver eagles, maples, britannias etc for £14 each. That seems to be a good price for the UK right now, especially from a reputable dealer. They are going for more than that on Ebay, plus postage on top and of course Ebay is much riskier.

There is a local antique shop selling various old coins and I have my eye on a 1960s gold sovereign going for £140. That's a good price for a sovereign, as long as it's not fake. The problem is that coin experts warn that antique dealers don't know jack shit about coins so it's too much of a gamble. :(

So I might be better off going for antique rings for my gold quota.

Everyone needs to decide for themselves what they'll buy, I've just put forward the concept promoted by Richard Kiyosaki; that 'Cash is Trash'. How much trash do you want to convert approx? I'm doing about 90% of mine. If you read the last article that I posted, you'll see a clear case for silver. So those silver coins that you can get for £14 are still give away prices (in my opinion). I've paid round about £10 an oz for all my silver. Those prices are going up fast.

I've bought twice off www.coininvestdirect.com. I give them 10/10. Coins I got were new. They are affiliated with Perth Mint. Funny that Perth Mint ran out of stock recently and won't be taking new orders til Feb. (If the news article that I read was accurate).

No one knows exactly but the Cartel might be loosing control of price suppression at the moment. If you are new to this subject, it can be bloody confusing. Lot's of this financial jargon still is confusing to me....I've got lots of experience with financial markets, so it's an interest I've had for a long time. This is the reason I ended up here......the gold suppression conspiracy.

I'll leave decisions on other survival stuff out of this thread. As I've said before, I don't have apocalyptic beliefs yet, only in terms of paper money. OK everything could go pear shaped......I like to think of Icke's bin theory ie mass non cooperation first.

[icke_is_right]

:eek: anybody?

I went to internet abbreviations for this one but came up with nothing. In short, your not ignored, I just haven't got a clue what you are trying to communicate. I look forward to hearing from you in words and sentences, otherwise I'll be rendered incapable of response.

[dreamweaver]

Everyone needs to decide for themselves what they'll buy, I've just put forward the concept promoted by Richard Kiyosaki; that 'Cash is Trash'. How much trash do you want to convert approx? I'm doing about 90% of mine. If you read the last article that I posted, you'll see a clear case for silver. So those silver coins that you can get for £14 are still give away prices (in my opinion). I've paid round about £10 an oz for all my silver. Those prices are going up fast.
Well, my personal situation is that I do have a few k of savings but I need that because I was in a steady job for many years, then left it in summer because I got so pissed off with the micromanagement and control freakery that I walked out and burned my boats somewhat. Since then I've been in temp jobs and I need some liquidity until I'm in a more stable situation, especially as I still have a (small) mortgage to pay.

So I feel kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. If I leave too much of what's left of my paper money in he bank, I run the risk of it turning to crap. But if I invest too much of it right now into gold and silver, I won't be left with enough to cover my day-to-day costs.

[icke_is_right]

I think having a 1kg silver (ie approx 32 1 oz coins) should be within your reach plus that gold coin you mentioned. You'll probably be better off with oz coins. Since there is about 400 times as much gold as there is silver you can see where I'm coming from. 1KG gold is about £18k at the moment. This will leave you OK in the bullion department for now and you can always add later.

That's what I'd be doing.......

[olas]

[QUOTE=olas;670202]

Forget this man. The only way possible is to share, but for sharing i have to know who are you, not how much you have.

QUOTE]

Olas,

But instead of sharing, are you not judging.

The thread is informative about the advantages/ disadvantages of one curency over another. And is there for people,s own discernment. Are you not judging their validity of their choices.

If you believe in no need for any currency, with what will you share with me, when I have an empty belly.

griswald

Once i was in a jouney with my bike, and with the informations that my map was giving me i had tree ways to choose to reach my objective.
One was long, but well known.
Another was short, but unknown.
And the last one was too confuse to understand.

I had choose a fourth one that wasn´t in that cheated map.

And wasn´t gold that i found, nor silver. I found something different...

[icke_is_right]

Olas, what country are you from/living in? I'm from the UK living in Germany.

[jayelowell]

I went to internet abbreviations for this one but came up with nothing. In short, your not ignored, I just haven't got a clue what you are trying to communicate. I look forward to hearing from you in words and sentences, otherwise I'll be rendered incapable of response.
Sorry for not being clear! Sometimes I assume people just know what I'm trying to get across.
I have a three piece daimond set available for purchase. The abbreviations on the item stand for;
(Sterling silver/10kt Gold Plated/Carat Total Weight 1/3(size)/Clear Clarity13)

If anybody is intrested PM me!

[olas]

Olas, what country are you from/living in? I'm from the UK living in Germany.

Why?

Once i was looking for a place to sleep, but i couldn´t.
Then i found my hat...

[psych641]

Once i was in a jouney with my bike, and with the informations that my map was giving me i had tree ways to choose to reach my objective.
One was long, but well known.
Another was short, but unknown.
And the last one was too confuse to understand.

I had choose a fourth one that wasn´t in that cheated map.

And wasn´t gold that i found, nor silver. I found something different...

ok, youve got me hooked (I love biking anecdotes & fables)

so what did you find on the mysterious 4th path??

[olas]

ok, youve got me hooked (I love biking anecdotes & fables)

so what did you find on the mysterious 4th path??

I found free sex and a broken leg.

We never know what we can find...

Someone wanna buy a golden secret map?

[rhyth]

In dollars and suffering, it's never been higher.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/01/gold/randy-olson-photography?source=email_pom_20081218&email=pom

[griswald]

In dollars and suffering, it's never been higher.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/01/gold/randy-olson-photography?source=email_pom_20081218&email=pom

Sadly, the same can be said for every consumable resource on the planet:(

griswald

[olas]

Sadly, the same can be said for every consumable resource on the planet:(

griswald


Tell me one resource on planet that are finishing?

[griswald]

Tell me one resource on planet that are finishing?

:confused::confused::confused:

griswald

[olas]

:confused::confused::confused:

griswald


I thought so...

[griswald]

I thought so...

Yeah , me too.......;)

griswald

[icke_is_right]

In dollars and suffering, it's never been higher.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/01/gold/randy-olson-photography?source=email_pom_20081218&email=pom

So, what are you going to do about it?

Does this mean you boycott all unethically produced products? If you can do this, good on you.

What I'd recommend, is however, buying gold and silver, playing 'their' game so we have more power and can put the big picture right.

In a few months time when you are unable to even afford a loaf of bread, you will be in less of a position to put right such wrongs.

The problem I see is that most people cannot afford to do the things that are right. They cannot even afford the time to put things right.

Think about that the next time you buy a Chinese product etc..

[olas]

Yeah , me too.......;)

griswald

You don´t know what you claim?

[olas]

So, what are you going to do about it?

Does this mean you boycott all unethically produced products? If you can do this, good on you.

What I'd recommend, is however, buying gold and silver, playing 'their' game so we have more power and can put the big picture right.

In a few months time when you are unable to even afford a loaf of bread, you will be in less of a position to put right such wrongs.

The problem I see is that most people cannot afford to do the things that are right. They cannot even afford the time to put things right.

Think about that the next time you buy a Chinese product etc..


Uh, i see. You are just joking about this thread.

Let´s play "their" game? And of course we gonna win "their" game, yes?

You sure that you are right to joke about this?

[griswald]

You don´t know what you claim?

I haven,t claimed anything:)

griswald

[breezinreezin]

Hi Icke_is_right, the company I used before, ATS Bulliion stock Austrian Thalers, US Eagles and Britania silver coins. Which one is best?

[icke_is_right]

Silver Eagles are the most popular/widely traded and seem to hold the highest value in bullion coins.

[dreamweaver]

Silver Eagles are the most popular/widely traded and seem to hold the highest value in bullion coins.

My first order of US Eagles and Canadian Maples are on their way. :)

The maples have an even higher purity than the eagles, don't they? If I were to sell them for scrap value rather than as coins (I'm thinking back to the Argentinian student's experiences), is there a market for scrap pure silver in the UK? Most online scrap precious metal buyers I've seen only seem to quote for sterling silver, which is about 92.5% silver and 7.5% copper.

[breezinreezin]

My first order of US Eagles and Canadian Maples are on their way. :)

The maples have an even higher purity than the eagles, don't they? If I were to sell them for scrap value rather than as coins (I'm thinking back to the Argentinian student's experiences), is there a market for scrap pure silver in the UK? Most online scrap precious metal buyers I've seen only seem to quote for sterling silver, which is about 92.5% silver and 7.5% copper.

What company did you use may I ask and what was the price per 1oz after delivery costs?

[icke_is_right]

My first order of US Eagles and Canadian Maples are on their way. :)

The maples have an even higher purity than the eagles, don't they? If I were to sell them for scrap value rather than as coins (I'm thinking back to the Argentinian student's experiences), is there a market for scrap pure silver in the UK? Most online scrap precious metal buyers I've seen only seem to quote for sterling silver, which is about 92.5% silver and 7.5% copper.

Yes they do, I had to go and look at my Maples to make sure. Goldline buy scrap at about half the price they charge for bars but registered dealers. I don't think that you'd get to the stage of scrapping these. They are popular on ebay.

[icke_is_right]

This article gets interesting toward the end. It's a long one but it's interesting that it's more mainstream and internationally viewed.

I cannot reproduce the last email sent by www.goldsilver.com but I'd recommend you to do so. The last newsletter graphically displayd charts that would have a 5 year old understand the money situation in the US. If you get the newsletter entitled 'Greatest Wealth Transfer Ever' from Mike Maloney and can reproduce it in News and on this thread,,,,please do so.



http://news.goldseek.com/InternationalForecaster/1229888346.php

International Forecaster December 2008 (#6) - Gold, Silver, Economy + More

By: Bob Chapman, The International Forecaster



-- Posted Sunday, 21 December 2008 | Digg This ArticleDigg It! | Source: GoldSeek.com

The following are some snippets from the most recent issue of the International Forecaster. For the full 29 page issue, please see subscription information below.



US MARKETS



When, in the wake of the Bear Stearns collapse, Meredith Whitney of Oppenheimer blew in Citigroup for carrying what can only be termed "pseudo-derivatives" at par with bogus AAA ratings, derivatives that were essentially nothing but toxic waste created by Ponzi schemers Rubin and Prince to absorb a portion of the millions of mortgages that should never have been made in the first place, the elitists were caught with their pants down. For the Illuminati, this came out of left field, and they have been scampering around like rats on a sinking ship trying to implement some sort of damage control. These efforts to date have utterly failed to stop the US economic supertanker from sinking further. In fact, all their machinations have instead made the holes in its hull much, much larger, thus accelerating the rate at which it is sinking.


The Illuminati had planned to milk the financial system for several more years before intentionally destroying it. They were drawing out huge salaries, stock options, bonuses, golden parachutes, fees, commissions and spreads, which over the course of the past decade, mainly during the Caligula Administration, numbered in the trillions of dollars. Mr. Bubbles, Alan Greenspan, of course made their paths swift and sure with ludicrously low interest rates, while Slick Willie did away with Glass-Steagall and its system of checks and balances. The Slickster also implemented the unregulated OTC derivatives market with the passage of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, an opaque market, which has burgeoned into a Quadrillion Dollar Derivative Death-Star that will eventually destroy the world financial system. Via this destruction, the Illuminists hope to pave the way for a world government based on the old feudal system of nobles and serfs in an attempt to bring order out of chaos.



After all, the Black Nobility of Europe were feeling a bit nostalgic about the Dark Ages. Those ages were indeed dark for everyone, except, of course, for the nobility, and they would like to have some retro action on the economic mores of those times. But now, caught with their pants down around their ankles as Meredith peaked in "da Boys" lavatory to see what they were up to, they knew the jig was up. The tide suddenly went out, as before the onslaught of a tsunami, and they were found as naked as jaybirds, without so much as a Speedo bathing suit covering their diabolical derrieres. Their conspiracy was exposed, and the chain reaction was beginning to build.


Their plans to implement world government had to be accelerated due to this exposure of their nefarious plans. First the subprime derivatives imploded, soon followed by the municipal auction rate bonds and their insurers, and then the investment bankers started to collapse, but you would never know it based on what their CEO's told everyone, seeing that they lied through their teeth about the condition of their totally and completely insolvent companies right up to the day they went bankrupt or were taken over. Every major commercial bank on Wall Street, some of which were former investment banks like Goldman and Morgan Stanley, is still 100% insolvent despite Hanky Panky's nuts of taxpayer largesse from the Paulson Ponzi Plunder Plan, which can now be found in the baggy little cheeks of these Illuminist banks. These equity injections are a dog and pony show to keep up the appearance of solvency while Sarbanes-Oxley is ignored by regulators and unmarketable derivatives are exchanged for treasuries under the TSLF. Smoke and mirrors, together with bailing wire and chewing gum, are the only things holding these large commercial banks together. They, and the Fed which is feeding them, will be nationalized after the Derivative Death-Star goes supernova.



The Illuminists were in panic mode, as their conspiracy was made public. This meant that their dividends, stock options, bonuses, fees and commissions were going into the tank unless they did something soon. Spreads were almost non-existent due to low perceived risk based on CDS's that turned out to be totally naked. The Fed funds rate was at 5.25%, while prime mortgage rates hovered around 6%, yielding a spread of less than 1%. But since all the other fees were going to get blasted, the spreads were their only bread and butter (please forgive the pun).



What is a self-respecting, megalomaniacal, Illuminist miscreant-reprobate-sociopath to do under such horrifying circumstances? We'll tell you what they did.



The first problem was that Bernanke was flooding the system with money and credit to keep it afloat as the credit-crunch went wild, with M3 at 14% to 16%. This was highly inflationary. How can you lower borrowing rates to increase spreads when inflation is out of control? Answer: you can't, if you want to retain some semblance of credibility. So the Illuminati took advantage of the US sheople's ignorance concerning economics. They know that people look at prices to gage inflation, when it is really the money supply that controls the level of inflation. Prices are the symptom, not the cause. So they ran up all commodities, even gold and silver, for a time so that they could bring about a dramatic drop in prices later to give the perception that inflation was under control and that deflation might be setting in. This is how they justified the near-zero interest rates you now see, which can yield a huge spread of about 5%, which is more than five times what was available before all the trouble started.



In the meanwhile, the Fed arranged to accelerate the payment of interest on hoarded bank capital on reserve with the Fed. This bank capital will now be deployed, but it will be used for elitist speculation and insider trading, not for the opening of credit markets to consumers. The idea is to keep the salaries, bonuses, dividends and spreads going in order to line the pockets of elitists, not to save the middle class. They are going to throw your money, via taxpayer-funded bailouts, down a rat-hole, the exit for which comes out into their back pockets. They will become fabulously wealthy, while you are hyper-inflated into oblivion, as your dollars are thrown at insolvent elitist companies that are being artificially animated like zombies. Taxpayer-owned equities, received in exchange for bailout money, are absolutely worthless. They will re-inflate after they have destroyed the auto industry and as many non-Illuminist companies as they can to eliminate competition. The loan money will not be available for these unfortunate souls and entities. Ford may absorb GM and Chrysler before it also succumbs, and then it will be nationalized as our Communist Comrade Obama uses members of the former Clinton Administration to destroy what is left of our economy. Does he really expect change from these people? Of course not. He did not pick them. They were chosen for him.



Note that the asset losses worldwide are in the tens of trillions, but this does not necessarily indicate deflation. Only to the extent the money supply is contracted by these losses are these deflationary forces unleashed. Not all asset losses translate into a contraction in the money supply. We believe that the 9 trillion the Fed has pumped in thus far is just enough to offset the contraction in the money supply due to asset losses. They were waiting to maximize spreads before they undertook to re-inflate. When they re-inflate, this will create inflationary forces that will require interest rates to rise on everything except bank loans, for a time, thus increasing their spreads even more, but at some point the Fed will have to raise rates again on the banks also. The banks are intentionally holding back on lending, hoarding their reserves, at the direction of the Fed, so that the Fed could have some justification for bringing rates down. Lending out their reserves would have been inflationary and made rate reductions impossible, so they were told to wait. Now that the rates are down, you can expect re-inflation to take advantage of high spreads for as long as they can give the appearance that inflation is under control. This is why gold and silver suppression is so important to them. But they are looking at a possible delivery failure in precious metals, and this could have the effect of defeating their plans by exposing that we are really still in an inflationary mode, not a deflationary one. The only thing propping up the dollar now are settlements of CDS losses in the unregulated OTC market, where arrangements have been made to settle losses on demand whenever the dollar needs a boost. Hence the suspended animation of AIG and Citigroup. Lehman CDS losses disappeared from public view, but they are still out there and are being used to prop up the dollar also. This also explains why oil is getting blasted.



The objective of the Illuminati had been to create and dump toxic waste weapons of mass destruction on nations around the world in order to collapse the old nation-state system and replace it with an Orwellian New World Order, a global, corporatist, fascist police state of feudality, where the would-be masters of the universe get to lord it over us, their serfs. Instead of leaving everyone else holding the bag, as was their intention, the rather fortuitous exposure of their fraud left them holding a part of the bag, which they had intended to leave for everyone else. They had SIV's loaded with this nasty stuff off the books in off-shore funds, and they had quite a bit left in house that was in the process of being worked on, like some sort of deadly poison you might find being worked on in Dr. Strangelove's laboratory, to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. And yes, thanks to the Illuminati, rocket scientists have become the new mad scientists of financial innovation, manufacturing new financial poisons so toxic that they now threaten the whole world -- God help us all!



Some of those new financial poisons were called credit default swaps (CDS's), some sixty to seventy trillion worth that are currently reeking havoc with AIG, Lehman and Citigroup, as well as many hedge funds. But if you think these are bad, wait until you see what happens when interest rate swaps (IRS's) meet double-digit interest rates. It will be like "Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man." This event will quite literally be a financial Armageddon from which none will escape.



Enjoy the low rates while you can, our fine Illuminist miscreants. When rates go into double digits, it will be like the sun going supernova. Hundreds upon hundreds of trillions in notional value are at stake when the interest rates do what they did in the early 1980's. When the huge imbalance between low fixed rates that have been exchanged for what will become astronomical variable rates starts to generate losses, the likes of which have never been seen before in the history of mankind, the IRS's will reach critical mass and start a thermonuclear chain reaction that will vaporize everything in their path.



The final implosion of the IRS's (and we don't mean the Internal Revenue Service, although we find the commonality of their initials rather intriguing) will mark the start of what will become the greatest world depression in many centuries, perhaps even for all time. This horrendous event will follow the coming period of hyperinflation that will be generated by now ludicrously low (zero, or near zero) interest rates, speculation and a re-inflation of our economy utilizing the printing press and fractional reserve banking, and it is this period of hyperinflation that will cause the interest rates charged on virtually all loans in the real world outside of the banking system to go into double digits. This will happen because the dollar will be in fiat money hell, and risk will be in the stratosphere.



In the wake of this coming global depression, there will be worldwide revolution. This is only several years’ away, not several decades. Those who do not own gold and silver will be impoverished, and will join the new feudal system as serfs and slaves of the Illuminati, unless, of course, these sociopaths are booted out through revolution and bloodshed, which may well happen.



The National Association of Realtors say office vacancy rates are expected to increase to 16.4% in the third quarter of 2009. Retail vacancy rates are expected to rise to 12.7%.



We see SEC Chairman Christopher Cox’s comments on the SEC not catching Madoff as a trial balloon to give the victims access to recourse from the public, the US government.



The Fed is telling us they will further inflate the debt bubble and monetize all debt.



The December Global Confidence Index by Bloomberg reported 6.10 versus 6.58 in November.



Our latest research on the SEC and naked short selling tells us nothing has changed. The problem is getting worse. The SEC is still protecting the major corrupt firms on Wall Street, such as Bernard Madoff. The SEC has absolutely no intention of stopping naked shorting, because of the billions being made by major firms. If you want this to stop write your Congressman, perhaps Mary Shapiro the new income head of the SEC will have the guts to bring it to an end. As long as this persists there is little reason to take delivery of your shares.

...

THE INTERNATIONAL FORECASTER

SATURDAY December 20, 2008 - 122008(6)_IF

P. O. Box 510518, Punta Gorda, FL 33951-0518

An international financial, economic, political and social commentary.



Published and Edited by: Bob Chapman

E-Mail Addresses:

international_forecaster@yahoo.com

if_distctr@yahoo.com

CHECK OUT OUR WEBSITE

www.theinternationalforecaster.com

[olas]

This article gets interesting toward the end. It's a long one but it's interesting that it's more mainstream and internationally viewed.

I cannot reproduce the last email sent by www.goldsilver.com but I'd recommend you to do so. The last newsletter graphically displayd charts that would have a 5 year old understand the money situation in the US. If you get the newsletter entitled 'Greatest Wealth Transfer Ever' from Mike Maloney and can reproduce it in News and on this thread,,,,please do so.



http://news.goldseek.com/InternationalForecaster/1229888346.php

International Forecaster December 2008 (#6) - Gold, Silver, Economy + More

By: Bob Chapman, The International Forecaster



-- Posted Sunday, 21 December 2008 | Digg This ArticleDigg It! | Source: GoldSeek.com

The following are some snippets from the most recent issue of the International Forecaster. For the full 29 page issue, please see subscription information below.



US MARKETS



When, in the wake of the Bear Stearns collapse, Meredith Whitney of Oppenheimer blew in Citigroup for carrying what can only be termed "pseudo-derivatives" at par with bogus AAA ratings, derivatives that were essentially nothing but toxic waste created by Ponzi schemers Rubin and Prince to absorb a portion of the millions of mortgages that should never have been made in the first place, the elitists were caught with their pants down. For the Illuminati, this came out of left field, and they have been scampering around like rats on a sinking ship trying to implement some sort of damage control. These efforts to date have utterly failed to stop the US economic supertanker from sinking further. In fact, all their machinations have instead made the holes in its hull much, much larger, thus accelerating the rate at which it is sinking.


The Illuminati had planned to milk the financial system for several more years before intentionally destroying it. They were drawing out huge salaries, stock options, bonuses, golden parachutes, fees, commissions and spreads, which over the course of the past decade, mainly during the Caligula Administration, numbered in the trillions of dollars. Mr. Bubbles, Alan Greenspan, of course made their paths swift and sure with ludicrously low interest rates, while Slick Willie did away with Glass-Steagall and its system of checks and balances. The Slickster also implemented the unregulated OTC derivatives market with the passage of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, an opaque market, which has burgeoned into a Quadrillion Dollar Derivative Death-Star that will eventually destroy the world financial system. Via this destruction, the Illuminists hope to pave the way for a world government based on the old feudal system of nobles and serfs in an attempt to bring order out of chaos.



After all, the Black Nobility of Europe were feeling a bit nostalgic about the Dark Ages. Those ages were indeed dark for everyone, except, of course, for the nobility, and they would like to have some retro action on the economic mores of those times. But now, caught with their pants down around their ankles as Meredith peaked in "da Boys" lavatory to see what they were up to, they knew the jig was up. The tide suddenly went out, as before the onslaught of a tsunami, and they were found as naked as jaybirds, without so much as a Speedo bathing suit covering their diabolical derrieres. Their conspiracy was exposed, and the chain reaction was beginning to build.


Their plans to implement world government had to be accelerated due to this exposure of their nefarious plans. First the subprime derivatives imploded, soon followed by the municipal auction rate bonds and their insurers, and then the investment bankers started to collapse, but you would never know it based on what their CEO's told everyone, seeing that they lied through their teeth about the condition of their totally and completely insolvent companies right up to the day they went bankrupt or were taken over. Every major commercial bank on Wall Street, some of which were former investment banks like Goldman and Morgan Stanley, is still 100% insolvent despite Hanky Panky's nuts of taxpayer largesse from the Paulson Ponzi Plunder Plan, which can now be found in the baggy little cheeks of these Illuminist banks. These equity injections are a dog and pony show to keep up the appearance of solvency while Sarbanes-Oxley is ignored by regulators and unmarketable derivatives are exchanged for treasuries under the TSLF. Smoke and mirrors, together with bailing wire and chewing gum, are the only things holding these large commercial banks together. They, and the Fed which is feeding them, will be nationalized after the Derivative Death-Star goes supernova.



The Illuminists were in panic mode, as their conspiracy was made public. This meant that their dividends, stock options, bonuses, fees and commissions were going into the tank unless they did something soon. Spreads were almost non-existent due to low perceived risk based on CDS's that turned out to be totally naked. The Fed funds rate was at 5.25%, while prime mortgage rates hovered around 6%, yielding a spread of less than 1%. But since all the other fees were going to get blasted, the spreads were their only bread and butter (please forgive the pun).



What is a self-respecting, megalomaniacal, Illuminist miscreant-reprobate-sociopath to do under such horrifying circumstances? We'll tell you what they did.



The first problem was that Bernanke was flooding the system with money and credit to keep it afloat as the credit-crunch went wild, with M3 at 14% to 16%. This was highly inflationary. How can you lower borrowing rates to increase spreads when inflation is out of control? Answer: you can't, if you want to retain some semblance of credibility. So the Illuminati took advantage of the US sheople's ignorance concerning economics. They know that people look at prices to gage inflation, when it is really the money supply that controls the level of inflation. Prices are the symptom, not the cause. So they ran up all commodities, even gold and silver, for a time so that they could bring about a dramatic drop in prices later to give the perception that inflation was under control and that deflation might be setting in. This is how they justified the near-zero interest rates you now see, which can yield a huge spread of about 5%, which is more than five times what was available before all the trouble started.



In the meanwhile, the Fed arranged to accelerate the payment of interest on hoarded bank capital on reserve with the Fed. This bank capital will now be deployed, but it will be used for elitist speculation and insider trading, not for the opening of credit markets to consumers. The idea is to keep the salaries, bonuses, dividends and spreads going in order to line the pockets of elitists, not to save the middle class. They are going to throw your money, via taxpayer-funded bailouts, down a rat-hole, the exit for which comes out into their back pockets. They will become fabulously wealthy, while you are hyper-inflated into oblivion, as your dollars are thrown at insolvent elitist companies that are being artificially animated like zombies. Taxpayer-owned equities, received in exchange for bailout money, are absolutely worthless. They will re-inflate after they have destroyed the auto industry and as many non-Illuminist companies as they can to eliminate competition. The loan money will not be available for these unfortunate souls and entities. Ford may absorb GM and Chrysler before it also succumbs, and then it will be nationalized as our Communist Comrade Obama uses members of the former Clinton Administration to destroy what is left of our economy. Does he really expect change from these people? Of course not. He did not pick them. They were chosen for him.



Note that the asset losses worldwide are in the tens of trillions, but this does not necessarily indicate deflation. Only to the extent the money supply is contracted by these losses are these deflationary forces unleashed. Not all asset losses translate into a contraction in the money supply. We believe that the 9 trillion the Fed has pumped in thus far is just enough to offset the contraction in the money supply due to asset losses. They were waiting to maximize spreads before they undertook to re-inflate. When they re-inflate, this will create inflationary forces that will require interest rates to rise on everything except bank loans, for a time, thus increasing their spreads even more, but at some point the Fed will have to raise rates again on the banks also. The banks are intentionally holding back on lending, hoarding their reserves, at the direction of the Fed, so that the Fed could have some justification for bringing rates down. Lending out their reserves would have been inflationary and made rate reductions impossible, so they were told to wait. Now that the rates are down, you can expect re-inflation to take advantage of high spreads for as long as they can give the appearance that inflation is under control. This is why gold and silver suppression is so important to them. But they are looking at a possible delivery failure in precious metals, and this could have the effect of defeating their plans by exposing that we are really still in an inflationary mode, not a deflationary one. The only thing propping up the dollar now are settlements of CDS losses in the unregulated OTC market, where arrangements have been made to settle losses on demand whenever the dollar needs a boost. Hence the suspended animation of AIG and Citigroup. Lehman CDS losses disappeared from public view, but they are still out there and are being used to prop up the dollar also. This also explains why oil is getting blasted.



The objective of the Illuminati had been to create and dump toxic waste weapons of mass destruction on nations around the world in order to collapse the old nation-state system and replace it with an Orwellian New World Order, a global, corporatist, fascist police state of feudality, where the would-be masters of the universe get to lord it over us, their serfs. Instead of leaving everyone else holding the bag, as was their intention, the rather fortuitous exposure of their fraud left them holding a part of the bag, which they had intended to leave for everyone else. They had SIV's loaded with this nasty stuff off the books in off-shore funds, and they had quite a bit left in house that was in the process of being worked on, like some sort of deadly poison you might find being worked on in Dr. Strangelove's laboratory, to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. And yes, thanks to the Illuminati, rocket scientists have become the new mad scientists of financial innovation, manufacturing new financial poisons so toxic that they now threaten the whole world -- God help us all!



Some of those new financial poisons were called credit default swaps (CDS's), some sixty to seventy trillion worth that are currently reeking havoc with AIG, Lehman and Citigroup, as well as many hedge funds. But if you think these are bad, wait until you see what happens when interest rate swaps (IRS's) meet double-digit interest rates. It will be like "Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man." This event will quite literally be a financial Armageddon from which none will escape.



Enjoy the low rates while you can, our fine Illuminist miscreants. When rates go into double digits, it will be like the sun going supernova. Hundreds upon hundreds of trillions in notional value are at stake when the interest rates do what they did in the early 1980's. When the huge imbalance between low fixed rates that have been exchanged for what will become astronomical variable rates starts to generate losses, the likes of which have never been seen before in the history of mankind, the IRS's will reach critical mass and start a thermonuclear chain reaction that will vaporize everything in their path.



The final implosion of the IRS's (and we don't mean the Internal Revenue Service, although we find the commonality of their initials rather intriguing) will mark the start of what will become the greatest world depression in many centuries, perhaps even for all time. This horrendous event will follow the coming period of hyperinflation that will be generated by now ludicrously low (zero, or near zero) interest rates, speculation and a re-inflation of our economy utilizing the printing press and fractional reserve banking, and it is this period of hyperinflation that will cause the interest rates charged on virtually all loans in the real world outside of the banking system to go into double digits. This will happen because the dollar will be in fiat money hell, and risk will be in the stratosphere.



In the wake of this coming global depression, there will be worldwide revolution. This is only several years’ away, not several decades. Those who do not own gold and silver will be impoverished, and will join the new feudal system as serfs and slaves of the Illuminati, unless, of course, these sociopaths are booted out through revolution and bloodshed, which may well happen.



The National Association of Realtors say office vacancy rates are expected to increase to 16.4% in the third quarter of 2009. Retail vacancy rates are expected to rise to 12.7%.



We see SEC Chairman Christopher Cox’s comments on the SEC not catching Madoff as a trial balloon to give the victims access to recourse from the public, the US government.



The Fed is telling us they will further inflate the debt bubble and monetize all debt.



The December Global Confidence Index by Bloomberg reported 6.10 versus 6.58 in November.



Our latest research on the SEC and naked short selling tells us nothing has changed. The problem is getting worse. The SEC is still protecting the major corrupt firms on Wall Street, such as Bernard Madoff. The SEC has absolutely no intention of stopping naked shorting, because of the billions being made by major firms. If you want this to stop write your Congressman, perhaps Mary Shapiro the new income head of the SEC will have the guts to bring it to an end. As long as this persists there is little reason to take delivery of your shares.

...

THE INTERNATIONAL FORECASTER

SATURDAY December 20, 2008 - 122008(6)_IF

P. O. Box 510518, Punta Gorda, FL 33951-0518

An international financial, economic, political and social commentary.



Published and Edited by: Bob Chapman

E-Mail Addresses:

international_forecaster@yahoo.com

if_distctr@yahoo.com

CHECK OUT OUR WEBSITE

www.theinternationalforecaster.com

Dear fella,

i´m amazed with your market knowledge. Still believing that your are joking, to don´t say that you are blind with the opportunity to profit in the chaos.

Nobody, ever, won in the others one cassino, specially because that to convert chips in money, must to be allowed to exchange at the cashier (usually safety protected).

To look for gold has the same results that to look for god outside of you.

Let the gold for then, buy a golden bicycle...

[icke_is_right]

Long Article with lot's of different snippets. Worth a read.

http://news.goldseek.com/EricHommelberg/1230042476.php


Another little piece, don't know the source.....

How much gold is there ?

In the world there are currently somewhere between 120,000 and 140,000 tonnes of gold ‘above ground’. To visualise this imagine a single solid gold cube with edges of about 19 metres (about three metres short of the length of a tennis court). That's all that has ever been produced.

Divided amongst the population of the world there are about 23 grams per person, about 1.2 cubic centimetres each. This equates to about $250 - $350 worth per person on Earth, depending on the current price.
What's it worth ?

The value of that short tennis court sized cube is about $1.8 trillion. This compares to the US government’s sovereign debt of $6.9 trillion, which until 1971 was part-backed by gold. The US Gold Reserve is just over 8,000 tonnes - which is about 6% of the total gold ever mined. It is worth about $100 billion, or 1.5% of the US national debt.

$1.8 trillion is about one fourteenth of the paper based international bond markets, which themselves, at about $26 trillion, are about two thirds composed of western government sovereign debt almost all of which has appeared, co-incidentally, since 1971 and the declared supremacy of paper money, which was what allowed governments to borrow without caution. The total gold content of the world would pay - at current values - about 7% of the international bond market's sovereign debt. But of course 75% of the world's gold is not available to governments - being held privately as jewellery, bullion and coin. In fact only about 30,000 tonnes, about 1% of the world's sovereign debt is what is held in central bank gold reserves.

Meanwhile the entire gold stock of the world - including the privately held bulk - is much less than one half of one percent of the underwritten risk in the global financial derivatives markets.

The world has placed absolute trust in paper currency denominated assets. Investors have shunned gold for about twenty years while the notional value of paper based financial assets has exploded.
Who owns the gold ?

About 30,000 tonnes of the world’s gold [20-25% of above ground inventory] is held in central bank vaults.

Major Central Bank Reserves (2000)
Nations & institutions Reserves (Tonnes)
USA 8139
Germany 3469
IMF 3217
France 3025
Switzerland 2590
Italy 2452

The totals for other central banks tail off rapidly after these main holders. Most only hold a few hundred tonnes, and together they make up a bit over 30,000 tonnes in all.

The rest is held by individuals in the form of gold jewellery [approx 70,000 - 80,000 tonnes], coin and privately held bullion [combined at 20,000 tonnes].

[icke_is_right]

This is the most stunning article that I've seen in recent times. I'll post it in news as well because I think it's that important. What I like about it is that it puts things in perspective graphically using officially published data. No fancy terms, no difficult language. Take the time to look, you'll be stunned if you haven't confronted this information before.

http://goldsilver.com/newsletters/newsID/3592/

[icke_is_right]

When I was a boy, an old man told me about the Weimar Republic. He told me about wheelbarrows full of cash to buy basic goods and the million mark note.......these are the figures.

If you've bought gold and silver from GBP. You're probably now thinking that it wasn't such a bad idea at the moment. If this present situation is 100 times greater than the Weimar Republic, those cheap silver coins might soon be worth their weight in the present gold price.

http://meltdown2011.wordpress.com/2008/12/26/vaporize-comex-2008-12-26/#comments

Tom Joad, on December 27th, 2008 at 1:33 pm Said:

Wiemar, Germany Gold and Silver Prices
German Mark prices of Silver and Gold from January 1919 to November 1923:

Jan. 1919 Silver 12 Gold 170
May. 1919 Silver 17 Gold 267
Sept. 1919 Silver 31 Gold 499

Jan. 1920 Silver 84 Gold 1,340
May 1920 Silver 60 Gold 966

Sept. 1921 Silver 80 Gold 2,175

Jan. 1922 Silver 249 Gold 3,976
May. 1922 Silver 375 Gold 6,012
Sept. 1922 Silver 1899 Gold 30,381

Jan. 1923 Silver 23,277 Gold 372,447
May. 1923 Silver 44,397 Gold 710,355
June 5, 1923 Silver 80,953 Gold 1,295,256
July 3, 1923 Silver 207,239 Gold 3,315,831
Aug. 7, 1923 Silver 4,273,874 Gold 68,382,000
Sept. 4, 1923 Silver 16,839,937 Gold 269,429,000
Oct. 2, 1923 Silver 414,484,000 Gold 6,631,749,000
Oct. 9, 1923 Silver 1,554,309,000 Gold 24,868,950,000
Oct. 16, 1923 Silver 5,319,567,000 Gold 84,969,072,000
Oct. 23, 1923 Silver 7,253,460,000 Gold 1,160,552,662,000
Oct. 30, 1923 Silver 8,419,200,000 Gold 1,347,070,000,000
Nov. 5, 1923 Silver 54,375,000,000 Gold 8,700,000,000,000
Nov. 13, 1923 Silver 108,750,000,000 Gold 17,400,000,000,000
Nov. 30, 1923 Silver 543,750,000,000 Gold 87,000,000,000,000

These numbers are from an article at Le Metropole Cafe

The huge payoff, protection that gold and silver provided as real money for those that had the forsight to make sure they acquired substantial amounts back when silver and gold were cheap occurred during 1923.

This is what can happen when a government fiat token is not tied in any way to something (like an amount of gold and silver) that restrains a government from creating at will as many tokens as it wants to. No wonder the US’s Federal Reserve bank, the creator of US Dollar tokens, is illegal, unconstitutional.

And now America has Bernanke at the head of the Fed:

“Like gold, U.S. dollars have value only to the extent that they are strictly limited in supply. But the U.S. government has a technology, called a printing press (or, today, its electronic equivalent), that allows it to produce as many U.S. dollars as it wishes at essentially no cost. By increasing the number of U.S. dollars in circulation, or even by credibly threatening to do so, the U.S. government can also reduce the value of a dollar in terms of goods and services, which is equivalent to raising the prices in dollars of those goods and services. We conclude that, under a paper-money system, a determined government can always generate higher spending and hence positive inflation.” - Ben Bernanke remarks before the National Economists Club, Washington, D.C. November 21, 2002

“Those who create and issue money and credit direct the policies of government and hold in the hollow of their hands the destiny of the people.” - Rt. Hon. Reginald McKenna, Chancellor of Exchequer, England

From Bobs gold page on goldprice.org

[icke_is_right]

http://goldsilver.com/player/id/53/cID/4/

[ianw]

In the end, paper money isn't real. I'm converting more paper to bullion until things stop being such good value.


I own a ring, its scrap value is worth about 10euros.Last year, I made a trailer from steal,steal is use full. If you´ ve got a few bars of gold what you going to make from them,?jam pans?I do agree paper money isn´t real. Where does that leave gold? If your into finance,your basicly a sales man,but go ahead and explain in the absence of money,why I would need gold;)

[icke_is_right]

I own a ring, its scrap value is worth about 10euros.Last year, I made a trailer from steal,steal is use full. If you´ ve got a few bars of gold what you going to make from them,?jam pans?I do agree paper money isn´t real. Where does that leave gold? If your into finance,your basicly a sales man,but go ahead and explain in the absence of money,why I would need gold;)

Explain to me why you can't read the information in the thread first?

[ianw]

Explain to me why you can't read the information in the thread first?

What makes you think I haven´t? You´re Pushing silver and gold,in the absence of paper money,in your words is not real,what makes you think I would accept gold or silver.I have no practical use for it.That would leave me in a position were I would have to market it. Have you seen Bill Hicks on marketing,he asks are there any people that are into marketing.Then he says they should go and kill themselves ,when this generates a laugh,he says,no realy,goand kill yourselves.Quite entertaining go see it youtube.;)

[icke_is_right]

What makes you think I haven´t?

Your question.

[ianw]

What makes you think I haven´t? You´re Pushing silver and gold,in the absence of paper money,in your words is not real,what makes you think I would accept gold or silver.I have no practical use for it.That would leave me in a position were I would have to market it. Have you seen Bill Hicks on marketing,he asks are there any people that are into marketing.Then he says they should go and kill themselves ,when this generates a laugh,he says,no realy,goand kill yourselves.Quite entertaining go see it youtube.;)

LOVE IS THE ONLY TRUTH,EVERYTHING ELSE IS ILLUSION ! :David Icke was he right?:cool:

[icke_is_right]

LOVE IS THE ONLY TRUTH,EVERYTHING ELSE IS ILLUSION ! :David Icke was he right?:cool:

Now I know why people selling cars state: 'No time wasters'.

If you see this thread and have wealth to protect, there is some good info just a few posts back. Please don't get distracted with the latest moronic drivel.

Thanks.

[psych641]

Now I know why people selling cars state: 'No time wasters'..

A: Hi there, just wondered if your still selling the car?
B:yeah
A: Can you eat a car?
B: err.. no.
A: well, can you..drink a car?
B (sighing): no
A (triumphantly): Aha! i bet it needs 'petrol' to work as well doesnt it!?
etc.

[griswald]

A: Hi there, just wondered if your still selling the car?
B:yeah
A: Can you eat a car?
B: err.. no.
A: well, can you..drink a car?
B (sighing): no.................................

Well actually you are wrong........

http://www.zerotosuperhero.com/blog/2008/01/29/how-to-eat-a-car-%E2%80%93-or-accomplish-anything-for-that-matter/

But i dont know how eating a car is going to secure your familys future , maybe you might enlighten me;). On the other hand having some small gold or silver amounts, instead of paper money , might be the answer. Whether we are willing to admit it or not we all have some investments of some sort, house, savings , land, money. And gold or silver may be a better choice than some or all of these at some time in the future.

We cant eat gold or silver, we cant eat dollars or sterling either. And if any poster exists at the moment with out any of these, please post, as I,d like to be enlightened.:)

griswald

[ianw]

Well actually you are wrong........

http://www.zerotosuperhero.com/blog/2008/01/29/how-to-eat-a-car-%E2%80%93-or-accomplish-anything-for-that-matter/

But i dont know how eating a car is going to secure your familys future , maybe you might enlighten me;). On the other hand having some small gold or silver amounts, instead of paper money , might be the answer. Whether we are willing to admit it or not we all have some investments of some sort, house, savings , land, money. And gold or silver may be a better choice than some or all of these at some time in the future.

We cant eat gold or silver, we cant eat dollars or sterling either. And if any poster exists at the moment with out any of these, please post, as I,d like to be enlightened.:)

griswald

I don´t know how to convert gold to monotomic gold but you can eat that,wouldn´t that be enlightening:rolleyes:

[griswald]

I don´t know how to convert gold to monotomic gold but you can eat that,wouldn´t that be enlightening:rolleyes:

Bit tricky buying a loaf of bread tho, with a pinch of monatomic gold, very hard to count the change too.;)

griswald

[ianw]

Bit tricky buying a loaf of bread tho, with a pinch of monatomic gold, very hard to count the change too.;)

griswald

I dont get it.loaf containing monatomic gold?:)Eat the monatomic, and keep the change.:D

[griswald]

Interesting info, so I thought I,d post ,

http://www.gfms.co.uk/Brochures/The%20silver%20market%20in%202008%20-%20an%20Interim%20Report%20Presentation.pdf

http://www.silverinstitute.org/investing_in_silver.php

griswald

[icke_is_right]

http://news.silverseek.com/SilverSeek/1212595279.php

This is old news. However, people can note that everyday we are hearing new announcements about money printing.

From me they can print as much as they like, they cannot however produce the same huge amounts of Gold and Silver.

So just to point out the obvious:

RATIONING OF SILVER COINS on one hand

EXCESSIVE PRINTING OF MONEY on the other.

You've all been warned! This week may be a big one for gold and silver prices as people start to realise that their bond investments aren't wise and a that the cartel haven't done very well suppressing the price on the last pushes down.

[icke_is_right]

http://www.gata.org/node/7095

[icke_is_right]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/1844fd60-e36e-11dd-a5cf-0000779fd2ac,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=htt p%3A//www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1844fd60-e36e-11dd-a5cf-0000779fd2ac.html&_i_referer=http%3A//premium.thebulliondesk.com/home.aspx?wl=0

South African goldoutput hit by steepestdecline since 1901

By Tom Burgis and Chris Flood

Published: January 16 2009 02:00 | Last updated: January 16 2009 02:00

Gold production in South Africa in 2008 sank to its lowest level since the Boer War, pushing the country into third place in the league of global producers behind China and the US.

The country's gold output dropped by an estimated 14 per cent, the sharpest decline since 1901.


The country's gold output dropped by an estimated 14 per cent, the sharpest decline since 1901.

[icke_is_right]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/ambrose_evans-pritchard/blog/2009/01/20/seriously_alarmed

SERIOUSLY ALARMED
Posted By: Ambrose Evans-Pritchard at Jan 20, 2009 at 14:17:08 [General]
Posted in: Business
Tags:
View More
Bank bail-out, currency crisis, deficit, financial crisis, pound, recession , Sterling

The slide in sterling has turned "disorderly".

We can argue over whether or not the first phase of devaluation acted as a shock-absorber for a badly mismanaged economy, providing a cushion against debt deflation and the housing crash. But the latest dive has a very malign feel.

For the first time since this crisis began eighteen months ago, I am seriously worried that British government is losing control.

The currency has fallen five cents today to $1.39 against the dollar. It is now perched precariously on a two-decade support line -- the levels tested in 2001 and 1992. If it breaks that line, traders may send it crashing down towards dollar parity.

The danger is blindingly obvious. The $4.4 trillion of foreign liabilities accumulated by UK banks are twice the size of the British economy. UK foreign reserves are virtually nothing at $60.6bn. (on this, more later in a piece I'm writing today)

If the Government is forced to nationalise RBS and perhaps Barclays with their vast exposure in dollars, euros, and yen, it risks being submerged. It is one thing for a sovereign state to let its national debt jump in a crisis -- or a war -- perhaps even to 100pc of GDP. It is another to take on foreign debts on such a scale with no reserves. Yes, the banks have foreign assets as well to match the debts. But how much are these assets really worth?

This is the moment when the "rubber hits the road" -- to borrow from American argot -- the moment when the reckless debt experiment of our economic and political leaders comes back to haunt.

We cannot even do what Iceland did to save its skin. Reykjavik refused to honour the foreign debts of its buccaneering banks. It let them default, parking the losses in Resolution Committees. Small islands can do that. Iceland has fish instead, and lots of metals.

Britain cannot follow suit. The debts are too big. If London takes such disastrous action it will set off global panic and lead to an asset death spiral, drawing the entire world into deep depression.

What have our leaders wrought? The reckless conduct of City, the fiscal incontinence of Gordon Brown (3pc deficit at the top of the cycle), and the pitiful regulation of the UK housing boom have all combined to bring the country to the brink of disaster.

England has not defaulted since the Middle Ages. There is a real risk it may do so now.

And no -- just so there is no misuderstanding -- it would not have been any better if Britain had joined the euro ten years ago. The bubble would have been just as bad, or worse, as Ireland and Spain can attest. We have our disaster. They have their disaster. When the dust has settled in five years, when we can make a proper judgement on the sterling-EMU issue. Not now.

The Baby Boomers have had their moment in power. The most spoilt generation in history has handled affairs with it characteristic hedonism. The results are coming in.

The blithering idiots.

[vince2468motorway]

Things are actually quite bad right now. I didn't want to turn this into a thread about if bullion was better than grain/seeds because ultimately it's not; we can't eat bullion.......I'm opting out of their paper money system firstly and it's going to make me better off financially. Talking about food shortages etc., is giving in to a few people who sit around a table and make decisions, we are going to defeat these people. Bullion is empowering because I'm opting out of their system because I understand their system of paper money control. If more people do it, it will undermine their control system.

Secondly, if you have you gone through the information that I posted and have made an informed decision, good on you. The gold price rose over $50 yesterday. I hope these good prices last but I'm skeptical about this.



Perhaps we should stop a moment and consider that the history of gold in particular indicates that the whole human race has been duped into thinking this is in fact a precious metal to us,,,,,

I for one do not believe this thoery,, Silver,i can understand a little better as it makes for a very strong natural antibiotic when turned to a colloid..

Hypothesise for a moment that gold is a natural antibiotic for the beings that possibly created us,, "The Annunaki" Or even that gold is beneficial to them in some other ways,,

When you look at our history on the subject of gold,, We have been harvesting this substance throughout our seen history and where is it today?

Could it be that the zionist infiltrators of the global governments are collecting the stuff on behalf of the annunaki for when they return in 2012?

It would stand to reason that if we were forced into a great depression, We would gladly trade our remaining gold for anything that would give us sustinance and shelter,,

The pole shift IN 2012 would then literally "sift" the worlds earth so that the process could start all over again in preparation for the next age to begin the process of harvesting in readiness of the next return of our mythalogical creators.

When you stop to think about the sheer mass of gold we have recovered over the generations at great human loss and suffering. Then try to invisage actually how much gold the common people have,, This gives you a massive shortfall of gold in circulation..

One could then say that GOLD could in fact be the true root of all evil..

If we are in fact slaves to this matrix type system stuck in this third dimention then i beleive that gold is the reason and the product desired by the race that governs us.

What we truly need for us to lead a fullfilled and healthy life is as humble as an ear of corn...

[1694]

Rather than buying gold and silver think of it as selling fiat currency.

"Sell your money"

Might get that put on a T shirt.

[icke_is_right]

I take the points made above. Nicely written argument, however as 1664 points out, I've sold my paper to get something that 'costs' to get out of the earth. Paper is easier to extract than gold.

The costs are great for earning paper. I see sitting 8 hours a day in an office as quite unpleasant. Mining conditions for workers aren't good for many either but will these conditions deteriorate further with no mining and no alternative in place. Easy to 'talk' about when you can eat food and drink clean water everyday.

I see silver as being far more valuable than gold. This is my personal opinion. It's more useful and more rare.

Why have the controllers gone to such trouble to suppress the price? Are the prices of gold and silver space for some of the fish to escape the net? Since so many people don't know what real money is, it's logical the the tiny minority like me aren't really important and just maybe I'll escape slavery for this lifetime.

So far my wealth has increased a lot (I won't say how much). Let's say for example I'm worth more than £10k more than I was a couple of months ago. I'm not going to pay tax on that money when I use it either because I'm mobile and there are certain gaps in the system. Is this a better position that those worrying about loosing jobs or property? Is this better than 'working'? For me it is but I've spent a long time studying to get here.

If pole shifts to happen, I think class A drugs would be better to hold.

When I look at my gold I find it hard to conceive that it's valuable. I finding harder to conceive that it's going to get massively more valuable in the future but it's happened before and it's happening again now. I've swapped computer figures for something that's been a measure of wealth for thousands of years.

No one has yet suggested a better way to protect individual wealth in this thread. I've got enough for all the survival stuff suggested so this isn't a factor. There are millions of people who've just commited finanancial suicide added to the billions who believed in pensions before etc.. People have put their money in Govt Bonds! This stuff is becoming easy to see for anyone.

[griswald]

Gold is not necessarily the root of all evil. Any commodity, product, element, food, water,ect could be equally as evil, depending on how its used to suppress or enslave people.

Excessive profit of one man over another because of greed is more damaging than holding a particular form of product or currency with intent to share.

Its not what you have that makes it evil, its how you use it.

griswald

[griswald]

Why do we need gold,n,silver , when we can have this instead,

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=756092#post756092..

Rejoice, for we are saved......................:D:D

griswald

[icke_is_right]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12053

Interesting stats in this article.

[griswald]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aLo0Fh1bNmVw&refer=home


Interesting............


griswald

[hank_scorpio]

They want everyone to buy gold so they can confiscatate it all to fund the global carbon credit system. just dont turn it in like most sheep would.

http://www.reformation.org/roosevelt_confiscates_gold.html

[icke_is_right]

They want everyone to buy gold so they can confiscatate it all to fund the global carbon credit system. just dont turn it in like most sheep would.

http://www.reformation.org/roosevelt_confiscates_gold.html

We've already gone over this in the thread.....any alternative suggestions would be appreciated.

Only a tiny minority hold gold and even less hold silver. I think the focus is on the majority who are getting more and more financially fucked by the day whilst people like me get wealthier/retain financial wealth.

As Griswald points out, govt bonds are starting to dive. Millions of people have taken this option and they are going to be wiped out.

USD gold now approaches an important level of $930, that's fast getting to more than 24% increase since I started this thread. So, come on guys, not the worst financial advice ever dished out!

[marpat]

We've already gone over this in the thread.....any alternative suggestions would be appreciated.

Only a tiny minority hold gold and even less hold silver. I think the focus is on the majority who are getting more and more financially fucked by the day whilst people like me get wealthier/retain financial wealth.

As Griswald points out, govt bonds are starting to dive. Millions of people have taken this option and they are going to be wiped out.

USD gold now approaches an important level of $930, that's fast getting to more than 24% increase since I started this thread. So, come on guys, not the worst financial advice ever dished out!

Well I have already started getting my hands on some. I think it makes sense to have a few options.

[icke_is_right]

Tim Geithner unveils new plan to rescue US banking system
US Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner has admitted America’s original bank bail-out was “inadequate”, as he set out a revamped plan to provide more than $2 trillion to stabilise ailing financial institutions and revive lending.



Silver is holding up well, I'm glad I have a load of it! This is unfolding rather predictably at the moment. I wonder if something 'unexpected' might happen?!

[griswald]

Silver appears to be doing very well. If you were charging a percentage for your advice here icke, sure you would be a millionaire from the forum;)

http://news.silverseek.com/GoldSeeker/1233956656.php

Gold Seeker Weekly Wrap-Up: Gold Falls 1.5% But Silver Gains Over 4% on the Week

By: Chris Mullen, Gold-Seeker.com

Now if only I could get the contract for supplying ink to the federal reserve, I,d be a millionaire too:p

griswald

[icke_is_right]

Thanks for your kind words Gris, however my intentions were to enable people to help themselves. For those that did, more big rises in Gold and Silver today.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aMxgEGM0k8co&refer=home

King Says U.K. in Deep Recession, Pledges More Easing (Update4)
Email | Print | A A A

By Svenja O’Donnell and Brian Swint

Feb. 11 (Bloomberg) -- Bank of England Governor Mervyn King said the U.K. is in a “deep recession” that may force policy makers to create money and pump it into the economy after cutting interest rates to a record low.

“Further easing in monetary policy may well be required,” said King at a press conference in London after presenting the central bank’s revised quarterly forecasts today. “That is likely to include actions aimed at increasing the supply of money in order to stimulate nominal spending.”

[octopusrex]

Anything of value. Gold. Silver. Canned food.

[griswald]

A bank that deals in real money, and seems to have a moral attitude towards banking.

Our first priority at the Free Lakota Bank is to help America convert from paper to silver. As awareness grows regarding the fraud that is paper debt money, so does the demand for silver. Thus, silver is increasingly hard to find, and the price gap between paper and physical markets grows wider each day.

http://www.freelakotabank.com/currency.php

griswald

[psych641]

Anything of value. Gold. Silver. Canned food.

careful with storing your tinned food - mine are starting to rust in my damp kitchen :eek:

[griswald]

Might just be surface rust on the cans from steam in the kitchen condensing on the cans. Goods inside are probably ok. Pick the worst can and open it.
Too much water vapour in a kitchen that you are using for long term storage of canned foods. remember the old fashioned pantry was a cool ,dry , ventilated room. Everything a modern kitchen is not.

griswald

[pacoquerak]

Don't buy gold, buy farmland. Even if you let someone else use it. Anything to keep their grubby hands off it. Buy as much freakin farmland as you can as organic pasture... fuck Monsanto and all the mutants growing GMOs
fuck all the fat ass rich kids sitting on their parents trust funds.

[icke_is_right]

Don't buy gold, buy farmland. Even if you let someone else use it. Anything to keep their grubby hands off it. Buy as much freakin farmland as you can as organic pasture... fuck Monsanto and all the mutants growing GMOs
fuck all the fat ass rich kids sitting on their parents trust funds.

Let me humbly suggest that you might not know what you are talking about. If you do, then please expand on your strategy, enlighten us on your experience with farmland sales and organic farming.

Do you think that I should sell my silver which has increased massively in price and buy farmland now rather than wait for a 100 fold increase in it's price and then purchase farmland?

'All the rich kids sitting on parents trust funds', will not be so rich if they haven't got bullion. I presume, that if ever you are rich, you won't be passing on any wealth to any immediate family.

[pacoquerak]

Let me humbly suggest that you might not know what you are talking about. If you do, then please expand on your strategy, enlighten us on your experience with farmland sales and organic farming.

Do you think that I should sell my silver which has increased massively in price and buy farmland now rather than wait for a 100 fold increase in it's price and then purchase farmland?

'All the rich kids sitting on parents trust funds', will not be so rich if they haven't got bullion. I presume, that if ever you are rich, you won't be passing on any wealth to any immediate family.

I will pass on wealth to my family I hope, but it will be something far better than money, it will be a rich ecosystem that human beings can still sustain and heal them selves in.

Also what are you going to do with that gold when money isn't worth anything? If our economy actually falters, you think people will care about gold?

All I care about is the planet around me is becoming stale, decaying and lifeless. Soulless.

The difference is that I will have put my sweat and blood into the land, I didn't get lucky in the stock market or win a law suit. NAWUDIMEAN

Plus, anyone who invests in seed is also going to see tremendous profits in the future if he plays his cards right + codex alimentarius...

[icke_is_right]

Well people keep telling me that gold isn't worth anything but I keep telling them that it's worth more than paper money. Silver is doing better than gold at the moment.

Again, there is nothing wrong with getting lucky. I haven't got lucky yet, I worked hard to get knowledge about what to do, this took years. It is also the reason that most people fail in the investment world long term. I'm actually making money from conspiracy.

I don't deny that seeds would be good to have but as an investment how many would one need and how much would it cost to store them? The average farmer is going to use tonnes of them isn't he? These are hard to store. This is why people such as me prefer a few gold coins (The real price of which is many thousands of $ because the price is suppressed) which can fit in a bag and be cashed at the bank (here in Germany). My problem is to leave the last 10 years of financial observations and jump into the abyss of farming. I think most aspects of life are best left to specialists. Therefore, I'd talk to an organic farmer/s for advice on food growing or land purchase.

Again, I ask, what land do you recommend at the moment and where? What type of crop is it best for?

[icke_is_right]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLtieiyCFMw

[pacoquerak]

Well, honestly, most farmers are a long way from survivalists. They follow strict business plans and procedures, buy giant expensive tractors or vast barns. They aren't care takers of the land, they are managers and business men. They don't produce their own seed, they buy their seed from hybrid and GMO producing Monsanto. Yeah they spend 1000's on corn and such, but one, that seed is of inflated price and two, they are planting giant swaths of land.

Survivalists however, work as best they can to be in harmony with nature. Management becomes much less of an issue, just as long as your planting more than enough for you to eat and sell. There are many many health implications with working the land naturally with hand tools, you won't get that riding a tractor. In fact, farm land is probably a bad word to use, as most "farmers" would say the locations I am looking for are not good for a farm!
The land you live on, should be at least around 50% wild, water, springs, ponds and streams are all very very handy to have around, especially for frogs, they are some of the best helpers around on the farm.
Most would want minimum 4 acres of pasture for any animals they wish to care for, though you could get by with less with smaller animals.

I am buying about 200 dollars worth of seed this year, 150 worth of 1 day old birds and hopefully some free goats. I hope to spend less than 200 on hand tools. I am going to be living on and working with a 70 acre lot that is largely wooded. However, there are 2 plains on high land that account for 3 or 4 acres as well as a bunch of strange clearings in the woods. The clearings start at the road that crosses the stream that separates the property in half. they go through the woods long and strait and narrow in many paths, it's obvious that every once in a while the stream swells and washes over these flood zones, but only rarely. I am going to pasture my animals there a lot and plant field and storage crops out there.
Down stream from there, there are all these low lands near a couple of smaller streams with Paw Paws growing under the other trees.
I am planning on helping the Paw Paws colonize most of the woodlands that I can.

Well, not knowing much about farming and finding the best land?
First off, there is a great book, that I believe everyone should read, not just farmers. It's called a Testament to Agriculture by Sir Arthur Howard. This guy new 70 years ago that industrial agriculture would destroy the world and humanity if no one stopped it. His book is just as useful today!
It will tell you almost everything you need to know about composting.
Ever watch tv? The only show I watched after I quit watching southpark (man it sucks now wtf lol) was Under The Sun on the Veria channel which is on satalite. The host of the show goes around looking at organic farms all over the world! It's really really a worthwhile show, unlike many others. I would recommend two cook books, Nourishing Traditions and Wild Fermentation. I would get as many organic and plant food as I could from the library, of special inerest is any books about Permiculture, perennial vegetables, forest gardening or grass feeding animals.

If you did get a farm... buy animals known for their hardiness, forage abilities and making good product. You will see if you look at bird catalogs, there will be listings for meat poultry or egg poultry or rare breeds, usually the best breeds are going to be under the rare listing.
Goats are about the most useful animals to have on the farm, they produce milk that is edible more edible for dogs and cats and humans and chickens and ducks and pigs... They eat shrubs, brush and even low lying tree limbs!
With the way things are going, I doubt it would be hard to find someone interested in helping you farm...

I mean, the kids I know are eating garbage out of dumpsters (okay so you can find some good food in there, but it gets real old real fast), tons of them are wanting land to grow on.

What type of land and where...
Well, it gets much cheaper to buy land in the north, but much harder to live in too, and less time to grow things. I am inclined to leave the states if I had the money.
California or florida or hawaii are the most productive states, though it might be quite a bit cheaper in Louisiana or Mississippi or Georgia. I would want to move as far away from civilization as I can, but it is good to live near a big city for markets.
Freakin buy anywhere that has over 8 inches of black dirt, now that's a gold mine.
My cousin just bought 60 acres of rice paddies in cambodia for 10k!
(yes that land has been cleared of land mines) If you look at third world countries, you could buy a paradise for so little!

I have many long winded impassioned rants about farming in this site, like the one called take back the planet on this thread...

I am really angry about the quality of food, scared that there may not even be any and looking forward to having the best food of anyone I know and sharing it with friends and customers!

[pacoquerak]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fltieiycfmw

lol owned

[octopusrex]

Well, honestly, most farmers are a long way from survivalists. They follow strict business plans and procedures, buy giant expensive tractors or vast barns. They aren't care takers of the land, they are managers and business men. They don't produce their own seed, they buy their seed from hybrid and GMO producing Monsanto. Yeah they spend 1000's on corn and such, but one, that seed is of inflated price and two, they are planting giant swaths of land.

Survivalists however, work as best they can to be in harmony with nature. Management becomes much less of an issue, just as long as your planting more than enough for you to eat and sell. There are many many health implications with working the land naturally with hand tools, you won't get that riding a tractor. In fact, farm land is probably a bad word to use, as most "farmers" would say the locations I am looking for are not good for a farm!
The land you live on, should be at least around 50% wild, water, springs, ponds and streams are all very very handy to have around, especially for frogs, they are some of the best helpers around on the farm.
Most would want minimum 4 acres of pasture for any animals they wish to care for, though you could get by with less with smaller animals.

I am buying about 200 dollars worth of seed this year, 150 worth of 1 day old birds and hopefully some free goats. I hope to spend less than 200 on hand tools. I am going to be living on and working with a 70 acre lot that is largely wooded. However, there are 2 plains on high land that account for 3 or 4 acres as well as a bunch of strange clearings in the woods. The clearings start at the road that crosses the stream that separates the property in half. they go through the woods long and strait and narrow in many paths, it's obvious that every once in a while the stream swells and washes over these flood zones, but only rarely. I am going to pasture my animals there a lot and plant field and storage crops out there.
Down stream from there, there are all these low lands near a couple of smaller streams with Paw Paws growing under the other trees.
I am planning on helping the Paw Paws colonize most of the woodlands that I can.

Well, not knowing much about farming and finding the best land?
First off, there is a great book, that I believe everyone should read, not just farmers. It's called a Testament to Agriculture by Sir Arthur Howard. This guy new 70 years ago that industrial agriculture would destroy the world and humanity if no one stopped it. His book is just as useful today!
It will tell you almost everything you need to know about composting.
Ever watch tv? The only show I watched after I quit watching southpark (man it sucks now wtf lol) was Under The Sun on the Veria channel which is on satalite. The host of the show goes around looking at organic farms all over the world! It's really really a worthwhile show, unlike many others. I would recommend two cook books, Nourishing Traditions and Wild Fermentation. I would get as many organic and plant food as I could from the library, of special inerest is any books about Permiculture, perennial vegetables, forest gardening or grass feeding animals.

If you did get a farm... buy animals known for their hardiness, forage abilities and making good product. You will see if you look at bird catalogs, there will be listings for meat poultry or egg poultry or rare breeds, usually the best breeds are going to be under the rare listing.
Goats are about the most useful animals to have on the farm, they produce milk that is edible more edible for dogs and cats and humans and chickens and ducks and pigs... They eat shrubs, brush and even low lying tree limbs!
With the way things are going, I doubt it would be hard to find someone interested in helping you farm...

I mean, the kids I know are eating garbage out of dumpsters (okay so you can find some good food in there, but it gets real old real fast), tons of them are wanting land to grow on.

What type of land and where...
Well, it gets much cheaper to buy land in the north, but much harder to live in too, and less time to grow things. I am inclined to leave the states if I had the money.
California or florida or hawaii are the most productive states, though it might be quite a bit cheaper in Louisiana or Mississippi or Georgia. I would want to move as far away from civilization as I can, but it is good to live near a big city for markets.
Freakin buy anywhere that has over 8 inches of black dirt, now that's a gold mine.
My cousin just bought 60 acres of rice paddies in cambodia for 10k!
(yes that land has been cleared of land mines) If you look at third world countries, you could buy a paradise for so little!

I have many long winded impassioned rants about farming in this site, like the one called take back the planet on this thread...

I am really angry about the quality of food, scared that there may not even be any and looking forward to having the best food of anyone I know and sharing it with friends and customers!

Paco, mon. You are a hard core hippy.

[icke_is_right]

Very interesting Paco. I like the idea of this lifestyle. I am sick of the food that we can buy. I avoid all processed food and buy as much organic as possible. However, it's not the same as stuff that is self grown.

If you can still keep being on the internet, it would be interesting to know how things develop for you with your own thread.

All the best and good luck.

[icke_is_right]

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1230259&pageid=0

'Buy gold. It'll only rise from here'
Vivek Kaul
Friday, February 13, 2009 2:05 IST
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James Turk, founder and chairman of GoldMoney, firmly believes gold will rise to over $1,000 per ounce in the next month or two, and stay above $1,000 for the rest of the year (that could mean over Rs 18,000 in India).
James Turk, founder and chairman of GoldMoney, firmly believes gold will rise to over $1,000 per ounce in the next month or two.

It may stay above $1,000 forever if the Federal Reserve ends up printing dollars to fund the borrowing the US government is planning for this year, Turk, co-author of the investment bestseller The Collapse of the Dollar, told DNA. Excerpts:

Investors across the world now seem to be taking refuge in US government treasuries. Is that a safe thing to do?
No, for several reasons. First, interest rates on long-term paper in the US are starting to rise, so the price of government T-notes and T-bonds will likely fall from here. More worrying though is the risk of a US default.

The US government owes over $110 trillion, when aggregating all of its commitments. It is very over-indebted, and the price of default insurance is rising because the market perceives a growing risk of default.

Also, it is likely the US government will need to borrow $2.5 trillion this year because its revenues will decline as the economy weakens and it's spending rises as a result of the weakening economy, which brings up another worrying point. The Federal Reserve will need to monetise much of this debt, which will further debase the dollar and cause more inflation.

The only solution the US government seems to have for all the financial troubles is borrowing more and throwing them at the problems. It also wants its citizens to borrow more...

It is not going to work. Too much debt is the problem. We had the boom, and now we are getting the inevitable bust. Because debt is the problem, it is impossible for more debt to also be the solution.

The US government is terribly misguided. Fortunately, people know better. They have therefore cut back on spending and increased savings in order to help prepare for the tough times the US - and indeed, much of the world - is facing in the months ahead.

What will be the repercussions of the planned fiscal stimulus and all the dollars that are being printed?
The most important repercussion will be that the price of gold will continue to climb. That is always the result when governments create currency out of thin air in order to give to politicians the money they want to spend.

The prevailing feeling among a lot of experts right now is that the US dollar and US treasuries are the biggest prevailing bubbles...
Yes, the US dollar is the biggest bubble, and US government debt instruments are the second-biggest bubble. People do things during a bubble that are not prudent. That reality unfortunately only appears after the fact - after the bubble has popped. The gold price is rising because of increased demand from people looking for a safe haven to protect themselves when these two bubbles pop, which I think may happen as soon as this year or possibly next year.

Can you visualise a catalysing event that will lead to the outright capitulation of the US dollar?
It's impossible to predict. It could be another major bank failure in the US. It could be when the Federal Reserve becomes the biggest buyer of US T-bonds. It could be when China or other trade surplus countries stop accumulating dollars and start spending them instead. The event causing the tipping point cannot be predicted, but once the tipping point is reached, history shows that the currency has less than a year before it totally collapses.

How soon do you see the world moving away from the US dollar as the reserve currency?
The world has been moving away from the dollar for years. In the 1960s, nearly 90% of world trade was conducted in dollars. Today it's about 55%. People are looking for alternative currencies, and I expect gold to emerge in the future in its traditional role as international money - in other words, the money that is used for global trade.
So, investing in gold is the right decision to make right now?

Gold is not an investment. It is money. Gold doesn't generate a rate of return like investments do. The price of gold is rising against all the world's currencies because currencies are losing purchasing power, while gold is preserving purchasing power. For example, one barrel of crude oil today costs about 2 goldgrams, which is the same it cost 50 years ago. So always calculate prices in terms of gold in order to see how badly currencies are being inflated by central banks.

What price do you see gold rising to over the next one year, three years and five years?
I believe that gold will rise to over $1,000 per ounce sometime during the next month or two, and then stay above $1,000 for the rest of the year. It may stay above $1,000 forever if the Federal Reserve ends up printing dollars to fund the borrowing the US government is planning for this year.

Within five years, gold will go much higher. It depends on how badly the Federal Reserve and US government debase the dollar. Remember, it is not that gold is going up; rather, it is that the dollar is going down because it is purchasing less and less because of inflation and other debasement.

What are the other reasons investors should be buying gold right now?
They should be buying physical gold, not paper gold like ETFs and other proxies. The supply of physical gold is very tight at current prices, which indicates to me that the price of gold has to rise to bring the market back into balance. In fact, a short squeeze is possible.

Many central banks have loaned out much of their gold, which is one reason the gold price is lower than I think it should be. As buyers realise that central banks are holding much less gold than is generally thought, it will create another reason to leave national currencies for the safety and security of physical gold.

Do other metals like silver and platinum make for good buys right now?
Platinum is being hit hard by the collapse of the automobile industry worldwide. It will probably rise over time, but I prefer gold and silver. In fact, I am more bullish on silver than gold, but silver comes with more risk because it is very volatile. So silver is not for everyone. But I expect that silver will exceed $20 sometime this year.

You seem to be a great believer in the Gold Standard. What are the advantages of a currency system based on the Gold Standard?
Gold is indeed the standard. It always has been and always will be. It is the numeraire by which all goods and services are measured because gold is money. The advantage of the classical gold standard is that it provides an external discipline on the creation of currency.

If too much currency is created by bank lending and the government printing press, the economy heats up, and the currency becomes overvalued. So gold leaves the country for other countries and other currencies where it can purchase more.

The classical gold standard provides a very natural mechanism that controls the expansion of credit, and therefore the value of currencies. The big imbalances today in world trade occur simply because there is no mechanism to bring order and balance to world trade.

The huge sovereign wealth funds amassed today by many countries could never have happened under the classical gold standard.

Do you feel that the current financial crisis would never have occurred if the world was still on the Gold Standard?
There have always been cycles of boom and bust, even under the classical gold standard. These cycles are inevitable in a monetary system in which banks do not keep 100% reserves for their customers' deposits.

So crises have been a regular feature, but never as bad as the current crisis. Even the Great Depression in the 1930s was the result of government disruption in the economy and monetary system because the classical gold standard ended with the outbreak of World War I in 1914. And I fear that this current crisis will lead inevitably to another great depression that will be worldwide in scope.

The best way to protect yourself against that possibility is to own physical gold.

[icke_is_right]

Very interesting radio show. 2 hours. Middle bit especially good

http://radio.goldseek.com/

[icke_is_right]

http://news.silverseek.com/TedButler/1235407708.php

If you don't know about the silver situation yet, then this will help.

[knightofthegrail]

Sometimes I wonder on the whole "buy gold and silver" idea - it sounds like profiteering on the back of an economic collapse (where, assuming a trade economy would still exist, gold would shoot up in value) or sheer daftness (are you going to eat your gold?).

Have a little, set aside, by all means.....but to rely on it or profiteer from it?

[cruise4]

I agree. It's just an example of learning nothing. Ho hum.

[octopusrex]

Get over your need for things and wealth.

[griswald]

Profiteering in any way shape or form.........for the oppression, enslavement of any human being for personal gain, is abominable.

Replacing existing paper possesions ie, money, with a better form of product to protect against future inflation , and further denegration of a persons savings for a rainy day, can not be called profiteering. Are you suggesting that you should hang on to your worthless paper stocks, money, pensions, when they are deteriorating at a phenomenol rate.

Unfortunately todays existence relies on having a method of trade to live. This currency, credit, purchasing receipt in its present form is paper money, we cant live without a form of currency at the moment, no matter what it is.

If there is an option for someone to protect them selves and family and loved ones from future inflation, one would be foolish not too consider it.Profiteering can be done using any medium, with holding good advice for ones own purpose is also a form of profiteering over those who have no access to the same information.

This thread in my opinion offers advice, and options, and I welcome the information in it, for those that choose to use it to protect their lifelong savings. Its not for everybody.

Its not what you have that makes you a profiteer, its how you use it .

griswald

[Ian2day]

Rather than buying gold and silver think of it as selling fiat currency.

"Sell your money"

Might get that put on a T shirt.

Great tagline. I'm thinking of making a publication to hand out for free. Just a small run to begin with and see how it is received. Maybe you would consider writing an article which can be handed out. there still are people without internet access who have never heard anything of the subjects we research online. So putting it together in a format for them may awaken a few more to the CONspiracy.

[wolf]

The problem is, that the price of gold and silver is in Dollars. When the Dollar crashes and returns to zero, the gold price may go up, but it is worth not much in pound or euro.

[Ian2day]

What if the public got wise. Would we see gold adn silver flip in status. The possibility of a silver backed issue of currency by the Obama created Bank of America could happen.

[griswald]

What if the public got wise. Would we see gold adn silver flip in status. The possibility of a silver backed issue of currency by the Obama created Bank of America could happen.


The only thing backing the paper dollar currency, is paper, ink and more paper monopoly money.

griswald

[octopusrex]

The only wealth you need is health.

[Ian2day]

The only thing backing the paper dollar currency, is paper, ink and more paper monopoly money.

griswald

I know about the gold and oil backed currencies. As well as how fractional resevre banking works. As it was explained to me and my classmates by an awake teacher in my school over 20 years ago.
What I mean is that silver is not as plentiful as Gold. It therefore at some point should have more fiat currency exchanged for it than gold. What use is gold apart from it is shiny. Ok Women like it. There we have it then. The conspiracy is all womens fault! lol We can blame them for everything lol

[icke_is_right]

Sometimes I wonder on the whole "buy gold and silver" idea - it sounds like profiteering on the back of an economic collapse (where, assuming a trade economy would still exist, gold would shoot up in value) or sheer daftness (are you going to eat your gold?).

Have a little, set aside, by all means.....but to rely on it or profiteer from it?

Welcome, I don't like eating paper money.

Don't spend your time wondering, all you need is contained in this thread.

I'm profiteering from this economic collapse at the moment. Most people rely on the govt. to look after them ie pensions etc.. I have no such plan or expectation, anyone who does, isn't financially educated.

I do think most people spend a lot of time working, thinking that they are getting somewhere. Some are, most will be disappointed unless they have some real assets.

You'll see reports soon of bullion coin shortages. This is because demand is outstripping supply. www.gata.org has two such ones up at the moment.

[tussin]

Peter Schiff has lots of interesting things to say on what to invest with.

he is the son of Irwin Schiff. check on youtube for various vidz.

[griswald]

Interesting analogy of the forthcoming collapse of the dollar,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n3g5lUgkWk&feature=PlayList&p=8C74F599DB228952&index=0&playnext=1


griswald

[griswald]

The Federal Reserve conspiracy,


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZTm-GaJ36Q



griswald

[grachtengordel]

Talking about food shortages etc., is giving in to a few people who sit around a table and make decisions, we are going to defeat these people. Bullion is empowering because

absolute rubbish. Food and resources are the only safe investment

Don't spend your time wondering, all you need is contained in this thread.

good luck with that

Peter Schiff has lots of interesting things to say on what to invest with.

he is the son of Irwin Schiff. check on youtube for various vidz.

don't trust him, it's a con

[grachtengordel]

Sometimes I wonder on the whole "buy gold and silver" idea - it sounds like profiteering on the back of an economic collapse (where, assuming a trade economy would still exist, gold would shoot up in value) or sheer daftness (are you going to eat your gold?).


good point

Get over your need for things and wealth.

yup

[icke_is_right]

absolute rubbish. Food and resources are the only safe investment



good luck with that



don't trust him, it's a con

So, Gold and Silver are resources. Look up the meaning of the word 'resource'.

There is no investment that doesn't involve risk. Anyone who says anything else is not stating the truth.

I don't know much about Peter Schiff but the little I have heard him say is far more true than the mainsteam press are reporting.

Best to spell out what food and resources you're investing in to protect your savings and wealth. Eg £100k cash. Again, I have stated that I don't think this is a bad idea but storage and mobility become large factors.

[celtic isis]

lol talking to my brother on the phone recently he said people in dublin are buying gold and storing it...i won't say where in case someone is observing ;)

[olas]

The first time that i did read your thread i realised your mean.
You are just like the ones that brought the world to this mess, and i´m sorry to tell, but you are nothing more than oil to the machine.
All what you got gonna be arrested and you will have your good´s tracked to pay taxs till the end, but if you reclaim your rights they gonna find a way to trough you to jail.
Don´t be stupid, is not possible to profit with others one sadness.
The only gold that worth is a golden bicycle.




Welcome, I don't like eating paper money.

Don't spend your time wondering, all you need is contained in this thread.

I'm profiteering from this economic collapse at the moment. Most people rely on the govt. to look after them ie pensions etc.. I have no such plan or expectation, anyone who does, isn't financially educated.

I do think most people spend a lot of time working, thinking that they are getting somewhere. Some are, most will be disappointed unless they have some real assets.

You'll see reports soon of bullion coin shortages. This is because demand is outstripping supply. www.gata.org has two such ones up at the moment.

[icke_is_right]

http://www.yourgoldforcash.co.uk/index.php

This will give the chance for others to cash in on rising bullion prices if you can't bring yourself to do it.

[olas]

Try a bicycle, they woun't tax you.
The sun is golden and it´s free for the one's unjailed.

[griswald]

http://www.yourgoldforcash.co.uk/index.php

This will give the chance for others to cash in on rising bullion prices if you can't bring yourself to do it.


Well icke.... that cracks me up.:D:D

griswald

[olas]

Profiteering in any way shape or form.........for the oppression, enslavement of any human being for personal gain, is abominable.

Replacing existing paper possesions ie, money, with a better form of product to protect against future inflation , and further denegration of a persons savings for a rainy day, can not be called profiteering. Are you suggesting that you should hang on to your worthless paper stocks, money, pensions, when they are deteriorating at a phenomenol rate.

Unfortunately todays existence relies on having a method of trade to live. This currency, credit, purchasing receipt in its present form is paper money, we cant live without a form of currency at the moment, no matter what it is.

If there is an option for someone to protect them selves and family and loved ones from future inflation, one would be foolish not too consider it.Profiteering can be done using any medium, with holding good advice for ones own purpose is also a form of profiteering over those who have no access to the same information.

This thread in my opinion offers advice, and options, and I welcome the information in it, for those that choose to use it to protect their lifelong savings. Its not for everybody.

Its not what you have that makes you a profiteer, its how you use it .

griswald

Profiteering and using well, good words.

I think you mean "I will fill my pocktes and gonna share with the good wine producers".Blá, blá, blá...

But tell me, if a poor lady is needed to sell hers family gold ring, what you gonna give her? Paper money? And after the hurricane passed away, you gonna give de profit back to her or gonna keep it?

[griswald]

Profiteering and using well, good words.

I think you mean "I will fill my pocktes and gonna share with the good wine producers".Blá, blá, blá...

But tell me, if a poor lady is needed to sell hers family gold ring, what you gonna give her? Paper money? And after the hurricane passed away, you gonna give de profit back to her or gonna keep it?

Well Olas, you are actually hanging around for a while. Well done. You are not in a position to judge my perceived level,of morality in relation to my fellow human beings, as you know nothing about me. Ask me a direct question and I will give you a direct answer.

You need to stop talking in riddles, and judging other peoples levels of moralities. Get straight to the point...if you have one.

griswald

[dreamweaver]

http://www.yourgoldforcash.co.uk/index.php

This will give the chance for others to cash in on rising bullion prices if you can't bring yourself to do it.
Think I might have to set up one of those myself. ;)

There is some shop locally that is offering to buy scrap 9ct gold for £4 a gram, compared to a Hatton Gardens jewellers buying for nearly twice that. I bet some people are actually selling to this cheapskate too.

When do you think the gold price will peak btw? I can't afford to spend much on gold, can only really afford silver. I hope this "undervalued" theory holds up.

[icke_is_right]

Think I might have to set up one of those myself. ;)

There is some shop locally that is offering to buy scrap 9ct gold for £4 a gram, compared to a Hatton Gardens jewellers buying for nearly twice that. I bet some people are actually selling to this cheapskate too.

When do you think the gold price will peak btw? I can't afford to spend much on gold, can only really afford silver. I hope this "undervalued" theory holds up.

I personally think that silver is the better option now. There is less of it than gold above ground and many other reasons. I don't know when prices will peak but you should read Mike Maloney's book and follow news on his website. He thinks in terms of value differently than in cash terms.

www.goldsilver.com

[dereistic]

Can someone explain this to me, why is gold and silver so valuable? Is there a fixed price, something else? I mean, if all just collapsed, then who would honour any kind of fixed price,etc?

[icke_is_right]

Can someone explain this to me, why is gold and silver so valuable? Is there a fixed price, something else? I mean, if all just collapsed, then who would honour any kind of fixed price,etc?

Value is what someone will pay for something or what it's worth to you personally. There is no fixed price and it doesn't depend on supply and demand at the moment. The market is rigged. Gold that is said to be in stock......isn't!

In the event that there is no food and water, gold won't really be worth much at that time. I can presently cash my chips for a nice wad. There might come a day when this isn't possible.

From one mine I've seen it takes about 6 tonnes of rock from an open cast mine in Australia to produce one ounce of gold.

It costs about £700 odd pounds or AUD$1500 (very roughly) to buy an ounce of gold. Most money is issued as computer numbers. This costs virtually nothing to produce. £700 of paper money would cost very little to produce, I guess under £1. Hence metals are a store of value. They are more rare than paper and ink and computer numbers.

Silver have masses of uses in electronic goods. There isn't much of it and most of it is in private hands away from banks. In my view, it's far more valuable than gold.

Prices of Gold and Silver are still massively suppressed. People in the finance industry and private individuals are becoming aware of this now and fast. When the lid comes off and JPMorgan etc., can no longer keep a lid on things by paper suppression, the price of Gold and Silver is likely to sky rocket.

Don't be surprised by Gold US$10,000 oz and Silver $1000 an ounce or more and take into account the prices today. This won't even equalise the ratio between the amount of fiat money and bullion. In the last 6000 years or so, bullion has always held value whilst other currencies disappeared.

Bullion helps keep up with the amount of money printed out of thin air.

[olas]

But i did ask you directly, didn´you see?.

Again.

Would you keep the profit that you made under a old lady´s needs (to sell her ...and so on)?




Well Olas, you are actually hanging around for a while. Well done. You are not in a position to judge my perceived level,of morality in relation to my fellow human beings, as you know nothing about me. Ask me a direct question and I will give you a direct answer.

You need to stop talking in riddles, and judging other peoples levels of moralities. Get straight to the point...if you have one.

griswald

[griswald]

But i did ask you directly, didn´you see?.

Again.

Would you keep the profit that you made under a old lady´s needs (to sell her ...and so on)?

I dont make profit from any old ladies, or old men, or children, or homeless, or hungry. Profit is not what I put my efforts into.

Now me.
How do you purchase food, and what is the currency you use to buy it.

griswald

[icke_is_right]

But i did ask you directly, didn´you see?.

Again.

Would you keep the profit that you made under a old lady´s needs (to sell her ...and so on)?

You cannot make sure that anything that you buy is pure. Who says that the farmer that you buy food off or the retailer that you buy your clothes off are happy?

Gold/Silver have their problems, eg open cast mining or poor working conditions (a lot of this is to do with the price suppression but not all). The trouble is with 'do gooders' is that they'd prefer to see people starve than work under poor conditions. Easy to say when they don't have to worry about their next meal.

I'm aiming to provide a number of people around me with food, who are not in a position to help themselves when/if the time comes. I'm getting prepared and preparing others.

What money system are you using OLAS? I've mainly opted out of the Illuminati paper one. What are you doing? Stop being an idiot on this thread, or just carry on and be ignored.

[olas]

You will buy her ring (because she need´s to sell it desesperatly) and you you sell it for the same price.

Ok. That´s fair.

But, remember, if you sell it and get a bit more than she got from you, share with her the profit.

Sorry if understood wrongly, because i had to make my own interpretation.

As usual, credit card.

Just to know, how do you pay food?

P.S.Don´t forget that the bank´s will accept the old lady´s ring to pay your credit card bill, as she could if kept the ring (May she didn´t know and you where faster (Darwin rules...)).




I dont make profit from any old ladies, or old men, or children, or homeless, or hungry. Profit is not what I put my efforts into.

Now me.
How do you purchase food, and what is the currency you use to buy it.

griswald

[olas]

just because i have an different oppinion of you.

And if the thread is closed for fellas, i think that you can open at your own blog. Is Icke right, too?

I´m saying, since the begging, that your knowledge of market is impressive, than i have nothing to offer but an advice that you know less than Alan Greespan, and he fu*ked all up.

Please accept that your knowledge is anchored is a sea of fear of starveness. Throw it away and use your brilliant brain to find another way to the merchantilism.

Realize that any gold will need to go to a BANK to become credit. Ask Grinwald.

Try a golden bicycle. Less petrolium, less fat,...





You cannot make sure that anything that you buy is pure. Who says that the farmer that you buy food off or the retailer that you buy your clothes off are happy?

Gold/Silver have their problems, eg open cast mining or poor working conditions (a lot of this is to do with the price suppression but not all). The trouble is with 'do gooders' is that they'd prefer to see people starve than work under poor conditions. Easy to say when they don't have to worry about their next meal.

I'm aiming to provide a number of people around me with food, who are not in a position to help themselves when/if the time comes. I'm getting prepared and preparing others.

What money system are you using OLAS? I've mainly opted out of the Illuminati paper one. What are you doing? Stop being an idiot on this thread, or just carry on and be ignored.

[icke_is_right]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ubJp6rmUYM

[griswald]

You will buy her ring (because she need´s to sell it desesperatly) and you you sell it for the same price.

Ok. That´s fair.

But, remember, if you sell it and get a bit more than she got from you, share with her the profit.

Sorry if understood wrongly, because i had to make my own interpretation.

As usual, credit card.

Just to know, how do you pay food?

P.S.Don´t forget that the bank´s will accept the old lady´s ring to pay your credit card bill, as she could if kept the ring (May she didn´t know and you where faster (Darwin rules...)).

Sorry Olas....I dont have a fucking clue what you are on about. I dont buy and sell any thing. Get it....I dont deal in any thing....I dont buy, sell, borrow, swap, or steal any thing from any body. What part of that dont you understand.

I see you managed to ignore the questions I asked you. Nice one.

But I,ll make an exception on the buying issue. I,ll gladly buy some of that " stuff" you are on, because its putting you way out on Pluto, must be top notch.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

griswald

[olas]

You - Just to know, how do you pay food?
Me - As usual, credit card.

I mean, you don´t buy gold(or something), but tell to the others that to buy is good. But just if is without evil profit.

And just because you don´t buy. Bullsh*t.

What´s top notch, bty?
Sorry Olas....I dont have a fucking clue what you are on about. I dont buy and sell any thing. Get it....I dont deal in any thing....I dont buy, sell, borrow, swap, or steal any thing from any body. What part of that dont you understand.

I see you managed to ignore the questions I asked you. Nice one.

But I,ll make an exception on the buying issue. I,ll gladly buy some of that " stuff" you are on, because its putting you way out on Pluto, must be top notch.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

griswald

[olas]

Now, after year´s of slavement, the gold will be used for food?
PLLLLLLEASE!!!
How´s from Cos?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ubJp6rmUYM

[icke_is_right]

Now, after year´s of slavement, the gold will be used for food?
PLLLLLLEASE!!!
How´s from Cos?

The alternative is starvation in this case, if you're not bothered about death or material posessions then well done, these poor bastards are doing what they can to avoid death.

1 Loaf of bread = 1grm Gold = £20(approx) ........in a third world country!

It's an interesting case because most people have commented that gold is pretty useless stuff (which it can be in certain cases) but this is real life and gold is keeping some people alive for now.

[icke_is_right]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ubJp6rmUYM

I wacked this on the Gold/Silver thread I made but felt it important to post here as well.

This looks like real life to me for these poor people. Gold is surprisingly, becoming useful to them.

1grm gold = £20 (very approximately)

[griswald]

You - Just to know, how do you pay food?
Me - As usual, credit card.

I mean, you don´t buy gold(or something), but tell to the others that to buy is good. But just if is without evil profit.

And just because you don´t buy. Bullsh*t.

What´s top notch, bty?

Oh you use a credit card for food. For a minute there in earlier posts, I thought you cycled around on your golden bike, and begged for it. Glad to see you are stuck in the same cycle as the rest of us meek folk.

You should dump your credit card, and pay cash , that way you wont be giving 20+% interest to some greedy banker. You could share your saved wealth with the old grandma, and then she would not have to sell her rings for grub.

Or then again you may be wealthy enough to pay for your credit card anyway.

For some one that appears not to understand english collloquialisms ( spelling ) in earlier posts, and then to pop "bty" in at the end, means you also have texting/posting down to a fine art, and that you probably own a mobile/blackberry, and your posts here are a windup.

Top notch matey;);)

[olas]

Dear brother,

in Africa the mean carbohydrate source is the cassava, if you want to give loafs of bread, you are, without knowing, bringing more starvation.

The european bread needs to much of imported grains and cereals.

The only way to have loaf of bread is with a golden ecconomy, but to finish starvation we have others soluttions.

Help with your knowledgement.

The alternative is starvation in this case, if you're not bothered about death or material posessions then well done, these poor bastards are doing what they can to avoid death.

1 Loaf of bread = 1grm Gold = £20(approx) ........in a third world country!

It's an interesting case because most people have commented that gold is pretty useless stuff (which it can be in certain cases) but this is real life and gold is keeping some people alive for now.

[olas]

Please let the talk for the one´s that has something to say about, "Why should i buy gold instead of locking for another way to keep the merchantilism alive".

And keep your top notch stuff.




Oh you use a credit card for food. For a minute there in earlier posts, I thought you cycled around on your golden bike, and begged for it. Glad to see you are stuck in the same cycle as the rest of us meek folk.

You should dump your credit card, and pay cash , that way you wont be giving 20+% interest to some greedy banker. You could share your saved wealth with the old grandma, and then she would not have to sell her rings for grub.

Or then again you may be wealthy enough to pay for your credit card anyway.

For some one that appears not to understand english collloquialisms ( spelling ) in earlier posts, and then to pop "bty" in at the end, means you also have texting/posting down to a fine art, and that you probably own a mobile/blackberry, and your posts here are a windup.

Top notch matey;);)

[olas]

Dear brother,

in Africa the mean carbohydrate source is the cassava, if you want to give loafs of bread, you are, without knowing, bringing more starvation.

The european bread needs to much of imported grains and cereals.

The only way to have loaf of bread is with a golden ecconomy (gold, credit card, money), but to finish starvation we have others soluttions.

Help with your knowledgement, and believe me, we should help the others in a way that they want.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ubJp6rmUYM

I wacked this on the Gold/Silver thread I made but felt it important to post here as well.

This looks like real life to me for these poor people. Gold is surprisingly, becoming useful to them.

1grm gold = £20 (very approximately)

[danster82]

Its an apex example of what control a system can have over human life.
Because they only accept Gold for payment now. Without the system they could live abundantly of their own land but once again they wont allow that.

For those who have watched this and then considered your gold/silver investment shame on you its because of this they are required to have gold for payment.

When we dont value what the elite value they lose.

[icke_is_right]

Its an apex example of what control a system can have over human life.
Because they only accept Gold for payment now. Without the system they could live abundantly of their own land but once again they wont allow that.

For those who have watched this and then considered your gold/silver investment shame on you its because of this they are required to have gold for payment.

When we dont value what the elite value they lose.

Well they are putting a high value on food at the moment. How do you suggest getting around that?

Our minds are the main control system but I find hunger difficult. They are loosing control on the silver market right now because people are realising how much that 'they' value it.

Through us, I'd be interested to know what tangible things they don't control?

I think that it's time to give up with this thread. Let people do what they want. Everyone's view is their right, I do respect this. I won't be completely right but I won't be completely wrong.

Over the next few months I think that we'll see higher prices for gold and silver. However, long life food/seeds/water are a great investment too but I think that their value will increase after gold and silver. For me, it's bullion first and then re invest.

I'm not worried about money but many people are still.

[olas]

Why some NEEDS to help someone so badly that he NEEDS to change the others one nutritional habit?

May be the NEEDED one is the "good citizen of the world", that NEEDS to show the world how important is to buy gold (and profit with that)?

If someone ask me for water, why should i give him Co*a-C*la? Cassava?

And deeper, why should i believe that i have the right to change others one way of life just because they are ugly and stinky (Im also and i don´t care)?

All this bullsh*t that I.I.R. and Griswald are talking now, doesn´t fit with the point that susteined the thread (Buy gold and blá, blá, blá).

All this emotional crap is used very well in the television when someone wants to be followed.

When we dont value what the elite value they lose. Perfect.




Its an apex example of what control a system can have over human life.
Because they only accept Gold for payment now. Without the system they could live abundantly of their own land but once again they wont allow that.

For those who have watched this and then considered your gold/silver investment shame on you its because of this they are required to have gold for payment.

When we dont value what the elite value they lose.

[griswald]

Printing is escalating out of all proportion now,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfSDPY5rYZE

griswald

[olas]

When we dont value what the elite value they lose.

Try to give value to more important things.

Turn off the TV, expend some time doing simple things till this become important.

Manage your diet in the way that you won´t need money to feed yourself, or at least less money.

Park your car, walk more or use bicycle.

If you really want a way out, BUILD ONE YOURSELF, and stop crying that your pocket gonna die. I don´t give a fuc* to your pocket. No one give´s...


Printing is escalating out of all proportion now,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfSDPY5rYZE

griswald

[griswald]

When we dont value what the elite value they lose.

Try to give value to more important things.

Turn off the TV, expend some time doing simple things till this become important.

Manage your diet in the way that you won´t need money to feed yourself, or at least less money.

Park your car, walk more or use bicycle.

If you really want a way out, BUILD ONE YOURSELF, and stop crying that your pocket gonna die. I don´t give a fuc* to your pocket. No one give´s...


Was there some point to your reply. My post was relevent to the thread topic, as it bears some relation ship to the subject matter.

You are entitled to your opinions in relation to the info offered in my post, and I will defend that right to the end.

You cannot set yourself up as a paragon of true virtue, as you openly support the elite, and their method of enslaving and entrapment to debt, by your use of credit card banking. Where as I do not. But you are entitled to do so.

I do not take offense that you continually judge me when I post on a personal level, even though you no nothing about me. You would need to know me in order to do that.

I dont watch the tv, I am self sufficient in my food products, and I dont have a credit card, and I dont support the banks, or any lending societies.Thankyou for your concern about my personal welfare.

griswald

[olas]

I mean, if is your point, or if is your personal kind of living, is, of course, your choice.

And you are completely full of rason, except that you don´t have a bicycle.




Was there some point to your reply. My post was relevent to the thread topic, as it bears some relation ship to the subject matter.

You are entitled to your opinions in relation to the info offered in my post, and I will defend that right to the end.

You cannot set yourself up as a paragon of true virtue, as you openly support the elite, and their method of enslaving and entrapment to debt, by your use of credit card banking. Where as I do not. But you are entitled to do so.

I do not take offense that you continually judge me when I post on a personal level, even though you no nothing about me. You would need to know me in order to do that.

I dont watch the tv, I am self sufficient in my food products, and I dont have a credit card, and I dont support the banks, or any lending societies.Thankyou for your concern about my personal welfare.

griswald

[griswald]

I mean, if is your point, or if is your personal kind of living, is, of course, your choice.

And you are completely full of rason, except that you don´t have a bicycle.

Actually I do have a bicycle, but I,m not lucky enough to have a gold 1 like you.:)

griswald

[kingmob]

So, when will the big spike happen? All the indications I see is that this summer could be a time of great upheaval, but I'm not really sure anymore of anything.

[olas]

Gold luck.


Actually I do have a bicycle, but I,m not lucky enough to have a gold 1 like you.:)

griswald

[griswald]

More spending sprees ahead, better than a game of monopoly.:rolleyes:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&refer=home&sid=a2qrsQ1PfH5A

griswald

[olas]

who is the loser?

Or, if you get some profit, who loses?

Can you live with that? As oil?

Enjoy your bycilce.


More spending sprees ahead, better than a game of monopoly.:rolleyes:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&refer=home&sid=a2qrsQ1PfH5A

griswald

[griswald]

who is the loser?

Or, if you get some profit, who loses?

Can you live with that? As oil?

Enjoy your bycilce.

My bicycle doesn.t use oil, nor profit.

Can I have some of that stuff you,re on.......please:p

griswald

[olas]

But i wish you do, because it´s good for me.



My bicycle doesn.t use oil, nor profit.

Can I have some of that stuff you,re on.......please:p

griswald

[emanuel]

I'm holding a lot of the above, so firstly if this isn't the best idea I suffer. I don't want to ram this down anyone's throat but this ties into 'what can I do?'. Finance is something I've been into since 1999. There will be other things to face along the way and this isn't the ultimate solution but I see this mainly as opting out of their financial system. It's a small thing that you can do, since a major part of this conspiracy involves paper money.

If all went well and all people on this site held a bit of gold or silver, after the 'revaluation' of money, people here would be better off and hence have more clout in the matrix world. I see more benefit if benefits and knowledge are spread to all.

So, if you're interested in what to do buy this book

http://www.amazon.com/Rich-Dads-Advisors-Investing-Financial/dp/0446510998/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226739735&sr=1-1

Gold/Silver price is manipulated so that today's 'price' is nothing like what it is worth. This is complicated but in the end, if you can afford a few silver bullion coins, you will probably see the value of them increase massively over the coming years.

In the end, paper money isn't real. I'm converting more paper to bullion until things stop being such good value.

In the end very few people will heed buying bullion and this is why I think that they will be much poorer (in matrix terms). I'm sorry about this. I probably won't be contributing much to feeback in this thread, everything you need to know is in the book listed and I'll be busy acquiring more physical gold and silver.

A good forum on bullion...

http://www.kitco.com/

www.gata.org for general info surrounding gold scam by Fed.

Good Luck.

Missing the point I think.

Money is part of the conspiracy because it is the main whacking stick used to control us. Why, because of our over inflamed value of it. If you focus your value on something else then they will harness that something or simply reduce it's value. Don't chase the hand that is trying to strike you, chase the target before you.

[griswald]

Interesting ad I came across on a local internet site, had the following invite.

An established business with three Dublin branches is looking for hosts to hold a 'Gold Gathering' in their home.

These Gatherings are like Tupperware or Anne Summers parties.

We'll buy gold, including scrap gold, from your guests.

We talk about the history of gold, weigh your friends' gold, and tell them what it's worth. Then they can decide whether to sell it.

The event produces quite a stir!

There's no obligation. And your guests can come away from the party with a fistful of money if they want.

Plus you get 10% of the value of the gold that's sold.

If you're interested, click the Email reply box below.

Gold parties................:D They are telling the party goers that gold is as high as its going to get now.............so sell,sell,sell;)



griswald

[griswald]

I see gold has just topped 1000 dolars per ounce, and silver has gone to 16+ dollars. Seems I_i_r advice was on the button. I imagine its a massive increase now, in regard to what it was when this thread was started.

griswald