Buy Gold and Silver

[domathy]

Jeez, what are you, his father or something?? Im sure he can respond himself thankyou

I was just trying to be helpful. After 375 pages I would imagine such questions to be a bit wearing for the op.

[griswald]

I was just trying to be helpful. After 375 pages I would imagine such questions to be a bit wearing for the op.


Your answer makes perfect sense:)

And maybe thats why you upset him:D

You,re not I_I_R daddy , are you:eek::D

griswald

[icke_is_right]

Jeez, what are you, his father or something?? Im sure he can respond himself thankyou

Are you sure that you should be driving trains with this temperament?

I've made it clear from the start as Domathy said that I've been interested in the markets since 1999. I live from my investments and no, I've said many times that I don't work. I was trading silver/gold but it got too difficult and I when I looked at my results, my physical was doing far better than phaffing around. I do not claim any form of benefits/help. I have always dreamed of the Rich Dad Poor Dad way of life. I don't intend to work again, metal is 'the' thing to be in now and when it goes up, I will relax more and more.

My whole route to David Icke was through gold manipulation. As I've said many times, I was inspired by David to inform people about this incredible situation for free, though it cost me many tens of thousands to learn about it.

The think I can't remember off the top of my head is that you intended to sell on gut feeling, some time back. I cannot remember the date. There was a member named Jiffy who was Phd and lecturer in economics. He said that he was selling all his gold at the end of 2011.

My view is that the public have yet to come it. When they do, it will be amazing.

I hope that answers your question. Now onward.

[domathy]

Your answer makes perfect sense:)

And maybe thats why you upset him:D

You,re not I_I_R daddy , are you:eek::D

griswald

Nooo, Im to young and he's too good with numbers for him to be my son :D

[mace]

Bank of England injects £50bn into ailing economy
Decision to extend quantitative easing programme to £325bn had been widely predicted after UK economy shrank last year
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/feb/09/bank-england-economy-quantitative-easing?CMP=twt_fd

Pour more petrol on the fire! ;)

[icke_is_right]

Bank of England injects £50bn into ailing economy


Pour more petrol on the fire! ;)

Well they are trying their best! Lol.

It's funny seeing the future unfold, as predicted. Just gotta wait til the penny drops with Av Jo.

[icke_is_right]

http://www.jsmineset.com/

The Terminal Beginning Of The Western Financial World
February 12, 2012, at 2:39 am
by Jim Sinclair in the category General Editorial | Print This Post | Email This Post

My Dear Extended Family,

The real terminal beginning of the Western Financial world was this week.

Kicking the can down the road is limited by the practical viability of the US dollar and US Treasury Securities market.

QE will go to infinity because there simply is no other tool that can create the amounts of liquidity required instantly by the destruction of the Western world financial system. This destruction was delivered to us via those that have securitized everything.

When you add to this that no default will be declared a default by the International Swaps and Derivative Association you have a guarantee that QE will go to infinity at the cost of the US currency market first and the US bond market second. I put this epic event in the year 2015. I give the US dollar no longer than June of 2012 before the cracks in its armor are visible to all.

The deal that set this in place happened in December when the Fed was confirmed as the lender of last resort to the entire Western financial world when it granted in excess of $500 billion in US dollar swaps to the European Central Bank. The ECB then in turn lent those funds to its member banks to buy European debt in order to paint the auctions of the European debt as viable.

At the same time the Chinese have agreed to be a port in the storm to the euro itself, explaining why it is trading above 1.30 when in truth it should be trading below 1.20 under present circumstances.

The IMF did its part in planning a large rescue package should Greek debt be haircut to 30% of its issued value. The IMF bailout fund will be dollar financed by the Federal Reserve and China. When push comes to shove the IMF bailout funds will benefit to a degree from Chinese dollars as an outsider lender that the IMF, which has already laid the ground, work for.

What will have to be rescued is the banking a system of Euroland and elsewhere holding the debt of Greece. However, what makes you think that other European nations will not demand some degree of equal treatment as the US credit rating agencies continue to downgrade European sovereign debt and the debt of their banking system.

Clearly the International Swaps and Derivatives association will see no default in the Greek credit event because it is voluntary. To declare this as such is the final can kick because it will be met by a demand for equal treatment and that will require infinite QE to hold up the world banking system. This begins a march towards 2015 when gold has a cyclical chance of being full-valued for the time being. A march has begun towards the virtual reserve currency that will have a connection to gold. This march will be toward an equilibrium price of gold and will not repeat the 1980 fall in price.

It is the funds necessary to cover the euro debt haircuts for the banks holding this debt internationally plus the ISAD Credit Event and Determination Committee non-declaration of default that guarantees QE to infinity.

The US dollar may have until June of 2012 before it replaces the euro as the currency of deep concern. Gold can continue for a period of time being played by the hedge funds but its next test is not at $1500 but rather at $2111.

The ISDA is the vehicle that will necessitate QE to infinity by its non-declaration of what is clearly default.

The clock is ticking and Alf’s numbers are in the crosshairs of the gold price. Let us hope that things do not get that bad and gold does its natural task and tries to balance the international balance sheet of the USA. That would speak very poorly for the quality of life the Banksters have planned for our grandchildren.

Gold is going to and maybe beyond Alf’s numbers. Gold shares with real growing extractable ounces will perform as they did in 1979 and 1980.

“Non carborundum est.” Don’t let the bashers get you down. They are so wrong at exactly the wrong time.

Respectfully,
Jim
.

[heartbeatsalute]

Well they are trying their best! Lol.

It's funny seeing the future unfold, as predicted. Just gotta wait til the penny drops with Av Jo.
Wait for how long?

[geewhizz]

Wait for how long?

Mate he has been saying the same mantra for years.

[icke_is_right]

Mate he has been saying the same mantra for years.

Yes, I told people that I was buying 4 years ago. Some followed quickly afterwards after realising what I said was true, some were already in position. As well as metal, I have always maintained that property isn't a good investment. I haven't seen anyone else who has made a similar suggestion who did better. There have been many suggestions about not bothering, confiscation etc.. Sorry but returns of over 22% PA are what I always worked towards for years. The message was there, what more could I do? I've also warned against savings accounts and ISAs. Farm land isn't bad but again you need to know what you are doing.

We have the slight 'blip' that they've taken out MF Global. This has reduced money in the paper market and trading volume.

Now Greece is in riots and they are embarking on QE extraordinaire. The advice still remains the same with a 4 year outlook. Understanding that one principle, will leave many light years beyond people who think that 'day trading' is an option.

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2012/2/15_Nigel_Farage_-_Greece_Descending_into_Total_Chaos_%26_Violence.h tml


Here are UK house prices from the same time Ie Q1 2008.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/indices-nationwide-national-inflation.php

It's also knowing what 'not' to do, that helps.

Gold and Silver shares will far outperform metal in future years. However, I've always backed away from such returns because people need to know how to value a company, read their balance sheets and ascertain what metal they have in the ground, and judge the quality of management. Also, work out how they are financed. This is not for people who aren't business trained, have studied accounts or have educated themselves extensively.

[blackjimmy]

Yes, I told people that I was buying 4 years ago. Some followed quickly afterwards after realising what I said was true, some were already in position. As well as metal, I have always maintained that property isn't a good investment. I haven't seen anyone else who has made a similar suggestion who did better. There have been many suggestions about not bothering, confiscation etc.. Sorry but returns of over 22% PA are what I always worked towards for years. The message was there, what more could I do? I've also warned against savings accounts and ISAs. Farm land isn't bad but again you need to know what you are doing.

We have the slight 'blip' that they've taken out MF Global. This has reduced money in the paper market and trading volume.

Now Greece is in riots and they are embarking on QE extraordinaire. The advice still remains the same with a 4 year outlook. Understanding that one principle, will leave many light years beyond people who think that 'day trading' is an option.

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2012/2/15_Nigel_Farage_-_Greece_Descending_into_Total_Chaos_%26_Violence.h tml


Here are UK house prices from the same time Ie Q1 2008.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/indices-nationwide-national-inflation.php

It's also knowing what 'not' to do, that helps.

Gold and Silver shares will far outperform metal in future years. However, I've always backed away from such returns because people need to know how to value a company, read their balance sheets and ascertain what metal they have in the ground, and judge the quality of management. Also, work out how they are financed. This is not for people who aren't business trained, have studied accounts or have educated themselves extensively.


Why do you think PMs had a pretty flat year in 2011 compared to the 20% p.a. returns in the previous years? It seems to me to be heavy manipulation in the markets to cover the inevitable price rises that would have happened as a result of things coming to a head in europe.. do you think I'm on the right track with that? Or did MF global have a large part to play?

Also in regards to housing, do you see prices continuing to go down over the next few years.. I'm at the time of my life where 'traditionally' I would probably be looking to buy my first house, but the thought of selling my metals to put down a deposit on a mortgage at this time seems imprudent at best, lunacy at worst. Bob Chapman has indicated that people would be wise to rent for the forseeable furture and keep their capital in metals.. just interested in your opinion. cheers.

[indolering]

Why do you think PMs had a pretty flat year in 2011 compared to the 20% p.a. returns in the previous years? It seems to me to be heavy manipulation in the markets to cover the inevitable price rises that would have happened as a result of things coming to a head in europe.. do you think I'm on the right track with that? Or did MF global have a large part to play?

Also in regards to housing, do you see prices continuing to go down over the next few years.. I'm at the time of my life where 'traditionally' I would probably be looking to buy my first house, but the thought of selling my metals to put down a deposit on a mortgage at this time seems imprudent at best, lunacy at worst. Bob Chapman has indicated that people would be wise to rent for the forseeable furture and keep their capital in metals.. just interested in your opinion. cheers.

I agree with Chapman's advice: continue renting until things level out. Keep your metals which will maintain and increase in value whereas land will likely continue to decrease in value.

[fables429]

I am a recent college grad with debt... so negative money.

What should I do.. I could probably only afford silver... where should I buy it from? I am pretty sure silver at the moment is cheap in Mexico... might go down there and buy in bulk with the little money I have left from my loans....

Gold seems hard to get, but I can probably get a bunch of old computers fro free and just cut out the gold parts... no chemicals needed for now.

Recycle the rest. (a certified recycleer.. e-waste is bad)

-------------------------

[godner]

I am a recent college grad with debt... so negative money.

What should I do.. I could probably only afford silver... where should I buy it from? I am pretty sure silver at the moment is cheap in Mexico... might go down there and buy in bulk with the little money I have left from my loans....

Gold seems hard to get, but I can probably get a bunch of old computers fro free and just cut out the gold parts... no chemicals needed for now.

Recycle the rest. (a certified recycleer.. e-waste is bad)

-------------------------

Go down to your local jeweller in your nearest town. Needless to say, AVOID the bellend ones who insist on taking your picture or ID.
Got a very nice sov for £255 last week, no questions asked.

Another point, I can't understand why people here in the UK think that 9ct or 18ct tat is somehow 'good'. I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole, unless I was weighing it in for scrap if the price is right.
Other countries value what the jewellery is made of way more than how intricate the design is. You only need to look at an Argos catalogue to see the utter shite they are touting, that said they will only tout it if people are buying this rubbish.

Things are definitely changing here for the better though. Fewer and fewer people want to pay for 'intricate workmanship' these days, no wonder, it holds about as much 'value' to the consumer as VAT does on a new car.

[geewhizz]

I agree with Chapman's advice: continue renting until things level out. Keep your metals which will maintain and increase in value whereas land will likely continue to decrease in value.

Do you have a link for this chapman interview

[indolering]

Do you have a link for this chapman interview

I did not see Chapman's article mentioned by blackjimmy. I took him at his word - the second sentence of my post is my opinion, which I assumed was shared by Chapman. Sorry for the confusion.:o

[blackjimmy]

Do you have a link for this chapman interview

Sorry I can't remember which interview I heard it on; chapman does so many. Actually I have heard him give the same advice more in more than one interview.

[indolering]

I agree with Chapman's advice: continue renting until things level out. Keep your metals which will maintain and increase in value whereas land will likely continue to decrease in value.

One more point about buying/owning land: with everything that's going on in the world today, the volatile economic and political circumstances (to say nothing of possible Earth changes), it may be necessary to move one's family due to local conditions. You can't take your land with you and you may not be able to sell it easily for what it's worth. Land is not portable like metals are. Just something to consider....

[alisa2]

Very informative. Thank you...:cool:


Have another listen:

Patrick Wood & Martin Erdmann PhD on Technocracy's Endgame: The Global Smart Grid - YouTube

[icke_is_right]

Why do you think PMs had a pretty flat year in 2011 compared to the 20% p.a. returns in the previous years? It seems to me to be heavy manipulation in the markets to cover the inevitable price rises that would have happened as a result of things coming to a head in europe.. do you think I'm on the right track with that? Or did MF global have a large part to play?

Also in regards to housing, do you see prices continuing to go down over the next few years.. I'm at the time of my life where 'traditionally' I would probably be looking to buy my first house, but the thought of selling my metals to put down a deposit on a mortgage at this time seems imprudent at best, lunacy at worst. Bob Chapman has indicated that people would be wise to rent for the forseeable furture and keep their capital in metals.. just interested in your opinion. cheers.

Manipulation and MF Global. The idea was to make people think that PMs are bad and going to fall further. I think that they've done very well on that count. The naysayers were out in full force because they look at charts and think that they reflect reality, when this is untrue in a manipulated market.

I expect that houses will not keep up with inflation. They are at the end of a 40 year bubble induced by the bankers. House prices are not created by supply and demand, they are created by bank lending policy because people only are generally able to buy houses with a loan. I expect them to shoot interest rates up when inflation gets higher, which will cause more people problems.

I mentioned land and by that I mean farmland really. Best if you are a farmer and a businessman. Then you can do something with it. Just as a static investment, I don't think it's going to be very unimpressive.

I think metal is the place to have capital for the foreseeable future.

[domathy]

This was on Ickes headlines page:


By now it will be common knowledge that Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke has committed America to Quantitative Easing (QE) for Europe.

It matters little whether the Fed distributes the funds individually to specific countries, or whether it credits the International Monetary Fund (IMF) or the European Central Bank (ECB) for them to distribute.

At the very least, the objective is a delay in the financial collapse of the EU, which would, in turn, delay a similar crash in the US.

It is hard to imagine, but it is also possible that Mr. Bernanke actually believes that the creation of more fiat currency may be an actual solution to the EU’s fiscal problems.

For those who believe, as I do, that the situation is beyond redemption and that the EU QE will only exacerbate the problem, the damage that it will do to American and European taxpayers is unconscionable. This latest grandstand play will only serve to make the ultimate crash deeper and more prolonged. Long after those who have concocted the scheme have retired to their villas, the average citizen will still be paying for their intervention.

But there is an interesting side issue that, as yet, does not seem to be under discussion. If the US is to loan billions, or even trillions, to the EU, it would not be unreasonable for them to request that the loan be securitised. After all, this is the normal manner in which banking is done.

On the surface of it, this might seem unlikely, as the Fed would appear a bit chintzy if it were to insist upon holding a note for, say, the Acropolis or the Tower of Pisa. However, a far more reasonable and far more logical possibility exists. At present, an estimated 6,000 tonnes of gold is held in the cellars of the Federal Reserve Building in New York that belongs to EU countries. It would not seem at all unreasonable for the US to wish to collateralise the debt to the EU, using the EU gold in New York.

The kicker here is that, however much fiat currency they credit the EU with, they will never see that money again. It is not possible that it can be repaid, since the EU cannot even pay its existing debt.

So, what would be the wrinkles in such a move?

First, it could be suggested that the EU would not wish to sign over the gold. After all, the QE will not be repaid, which virtually guarantees that they would lose their gold to the US government. Second, the European people are beginning to figure out that it may not have been such a good idea to let the Americans store EU gold, and many are now asking their governments to have it shipped to European banks. So, what would be the reply from the Fed if, say, the Bundesbank were to order that the German-owned gold be delivered to Frankfurt?

I am inclined to believe that it would not be one that the German people would wish to hear.

Another argument against the premise of securitisation for the EU QE would be that the US continues to maintain that gold is a barbarous relic that should not be thought of as currency. If they were to demand gold as security, would they be opening up a can of worms? My guess is that they would not. That can is in the process of opening of its own accord, as major American institutions are now buying gold. Therefore, the veil is falling from that particular ruse in any case. As it does, the US could only appear prudent to its populace by requesting securitisation.

But the larger issue is the future. The Euro is headed for a fall. The US dollar, in turn, would be likely to fall. A currency scramble would then ensue, with possibly the yuan, the ruble, the rupee and other currencies vying for greater use as world currencies. In addition, the IMF may well create its own paper currency and run it up the flagpole.

The US would be likely to make a stab at a new dollar of some sort. However, once a currency has crashed, the currency that created it generally has a difficult time re-establishing its previous position of importance. If the US were to stay in the game as the world’s provider of a default currency, it would need something more than it can presently offer.

Many economists project that, following the crashes of the Euro and the dollar, a return to gold-backed currencies would appear as a world trend. This is only natural, as the fiat currency concept would have been shown to be the farce that it is.

This being the case, at gold’s current spot price there is not enough of it in circulation to cover the amount of currency units in existence in the world. It is entirely possible that all currencies could receive a shake-up, and an entire worldwide system of gold-backed currencies may develop. If this were to occur, the countries that held the largest amounts of gold at that time would be out in front economically. Which countries had made the most severe economic mistakes in the immediate past, would become less important than who was holding the precious metal after the fall had occurred. Certainly, the Asian countries see the writing on the wall. It is no secret that they are acquiring gold in a very determined way.

Certainly, they hope to have a bigger share of the pie after the crashes take place in the First World.

As to whether the US chooses to attach the EU gold to their QE of Europe, only time will tell, but it would certainly seem to be the wise move.

[icke_is_right]

I'd like to get away from the idea of bankers/govts. looking after our money. I like Mike Maloney's idea where we actually used metal as currency or store it ourselves, outside the banking system.

However what the article says about money printing is true and long gone are the debates over DEFLATION. Which was long the case.

We could implement a system like Gold Money instead of banks. When people say their isn't enough to go around, again I suggest Maloney's idea of going down to nano particles if necessary.

We all know that gold as a currency isn't ideal but it is an ideal stepping stone, as well as silver, until a better system is found.

We have no idea how much gold or silver there is or where it is.

Unfortunately, there are hardly any people who are advanced enough to be able to 'do what's right', rather than look after self interests. Obviously, we need to put control in the hands of someone. All I could can think of right now would be handing over complete control to good uncorrupted and educated tribal elders, worldwide, who have held true to their customs and mostly rejected the modern world.

Then perhaps a new awareness and education could be created to bring people more in line with objectives such as: clean living, being happy and getting on with one another.

Perhaps then, we could handle free energy technology and such technology as the inbreeds have in their underground bases.

I was always rather impressed, some years ago on this forum about a thread about 'how much you'd sell out for' or something similar. I'm sure a few of us exist that would take no amount of money, knowing we do direct harm to others.

So, there is my dream of the Utopian world. We're a long way off and people still don't understand that gold and silver are a good currency until something better is found but only in human possession.

In any case, we need to remember that WE need to take control. There is constant talk that 'they are going to do this', 'they are going to do that'. Bollox, not if we don't let them and with a critical mass that is growing by the day We have a very good chance of not just overthrowing them, more to the point, realising our own power! Anyone with half a brain must stand in awe at the unbelievable lengths that they've gone to, to keep us asleep!

[domathy]

I'd like to get away from the idea of bankers/govts. looking after our money. I like Mike Maloney's idea where we actually used metal as currency or store it ourselves, outside the banking system.

However what the article says about money printing is true and long gone are the debates over DEFLATION. Which was long the case.

We could implement a system like Gold Money instead of banks. When people say their isn't enough to go around, again I suggest Maloney's idea of going down to nano particles if necessary.

We all know that gold as a currency isn't ideal but it is an ideal stepping stone, as well as silver, until a better system is found.

We have no idea how much gold or silver there is or where it is.

Unfortunately, there are hardly any people who are advanced enough to be able to 'do what's right', rather than look after self interests. Obviously, we need to put control in the hands of someone. All I could can think of right now would be handing over complete control to good uncorrupted and educated tribal elders, worldwide, who have held true to their customs and mostly rejected the modern world.

Then perhaps a new awareness and education could be created to bring people more in line with objectives such as: clean living, being happy and getting on with one another.

Perhaps then, we could handle free energy technology and such technology as the inbreeds have in their underground bases.

I was always rather impressed, some years ago on this forum about a thread about 'how much you'd sell out for' or something similar. I'm sure a few of us exist that would take no amount of money, knowing we do direct harm to others.

So, there is my dream of the Utopian world. We're a long way off and people still don't understand that gold and silver are a good currency until something better is found but only in human possession.

In any case, we need to remember that WE need to take control. There is constant talk that 'they are going to do this', 'they are going to do that'. Bollox, not if we don't let them and with a critical mass that is growing by the day We have a very good chance of not just overthrowing them, more to the point, realising our own power! Anyone with half a brain must stand in awe at the unbelievable lengths that they've gone to, to keep us asleep!


Thanks for commenting on the article. I agree with where youre coming from,
but I still am trying to get clear about wtf is likely to happen.

Im ready now to buy g/s and want to make the right choice. My problem is I just dont feel that fearful about the future. Maybe thats normalcy bias/denial, or perhaps I sense something awesome is going to happen and the world is just going to transform for the better and maybe no currency will be needed after we all wake up and learn to share. But thats possibly too much of a gamble as I have loved ones who I need to make sure are okay (otherwise Id be more happy to just wing it).

I cant help thinking it doesnt matter anyway as the reptillians are going to take all the gold away before vaporising the planet - or something like that, and maybe there wont be a critical mass and we're all fucked. Anyway, I had lot of signs telling me metals are a good idea - so will probably just go for it.



Do these coins look okay:
http://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/gold-coins/quarter-sovereign/quarter-sov/


http://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/silver-coins/canadian-maple-1oz-silver-coin/canadian-maple-1oz-silver-coin/

Thanks.

[freedom1st]

I'd like to get away from the idea of bankers/govts. looking after our money. I like Mike Maloney's idea where we actually used metal as currency or store it ourselves, outside the banking system.

However what the article says about money printing is true and long gone are the debates over DEFLATION. Which was long the case.

We could implement a system like Gold Money instead of banks. When people say their isn't enough to go around, again I suggest Maloney's idea of going down to nano particles if necessary.

We all know that gold as a currency isn't ideal but it is an ideal stepping stone, as well as silver, until a better system is found.

We have no idea how much gold or silver there is or where it is.

Unfortunately, there are hardly any people who are advanced enough to be able to 'do what's right', rather than look after self interests. Obviously, we need to put control in the hands of someone. All I could can think of right now would be handing over complete control to good uncorrupted and educated tribal elders, worldwide, who have held true to their customs and mostly rejected the modern world.

Then perhaps a new awareness and education could be created to bring people more in line with objectives such as: clean living, being happy and getting on with one another.

Perhaps then, we could handle free energy technology and such technology as the inbreeds have in their underground bases.

I was always rather impressed, some years ago on this forum about a thread about 'how much you'd sell out for' or something similar. I'm sure a few of us exist that would take no amount of money, knowing we do direct harm to others.

So, there is my dream of the Utopian world. We're a long way off and people still don't understand that gold and silver are a good currency until something better is found but only in human possession.

In any case, we need to remember that WE need to take control. There is constant talk that 'they are going to do this', 'they are going to do that'. Bollox, not if we don't let them and with a critical mass that is growing by the day We have a very good chance of not just overthrowing them, more to the point, realising our own power! Anyone with half a brain must stand in awe at the unbelievable lengths that they've gone to, to keep us asleep!

Excellent post! And yes, they do go to extreme lengths to keep us deluded which should give us a hint as to where the real power lies.

[icke_is_right]

Im ready now to buy g/s and want to make the right choice. My problem is I just dont feel that fearful about the future. Maybe thats normalcy bias/denial, or perhaps I sense something awesome is going to happen and the world is just going to transform for the better and maybe no currency will be needed after we all wake up and learn to share. But thats possibly too much of a gamble as I have loved ones who I need to make sure are okay (otherwise Id be more happy to just wing it).

I cant help thinking it doesnt matter anyway as the reptillians are going to take all the gold away before vaporising the planet - or something like that, and maybe there wont be a critical mass and we're all fucked. Anyway, I had lot of signs telling me metals are a good idea - so will probably just go for it.

Silver Coins look very expensive if you are buying a small amount:

http://www.coininvestdirect.com/de/silver_coins/?change=1&currate=pound_rate

No one knows what they are going to do about the timing with the economic situation really. They have been and will continue to devalue currencies but this is really happening on a massive scale now.

I have commented constantly on my amazement that so many people have 'Mad Max' visions of the future. I don't have this feeling. I actually don't see the point. I think more to the point is to make a decision that we are going to see the world change for the better. We do create our futures so much by what we think.

The Inbreeds don't look like they have any intention of leaving this planet.

The bottom line is that we should not live in fear.

I seek to get my thinking in order a great deal. The most successful people have a clear vision of what they 'wish' and a clear map of how to get there. This is what all of us need.

What I have learned over the past years has liberated me in many ways. I'm so glad that I understand more yet there is so much more to learn. One of my hopes is that I have the chance to learn more whilst being on this planet. What happens at death, doesn't concern me at the moment. It's so wonderful to understand why I'm mad and why the rest of the world is bonkers. The relaxation that comes with that is great. Today I was most of the day in the forest, then took a long walk back home, instead of being driven. I'm learning so much at the moment about bushcraft, there is genuine joy, in much of the stuff I focus on these days. Focusing on negative stuff, is likely to bring negative results.

[kingskins]

I have read most of this thread as it has developed, and i am finally in the position to invest. If you had say 10k to use what percentage would you put in gold and what in silver.

And i thank all that have contributed to this thread.

[icke_is_right]

I have read most of this thread as it has developed, and i am finally in the position to invest. If you had say 10k to use what percentage would you put in gold and what in silver.

And i thank all that have contributed to this thread.

50:50 is good and what people like James Turk, from Goldmoney advise. I'm in silver 100% now after having swapped gold for silver and spent some gold too. This is more risky but my silver has done so much better. However, this has been a rough ride so far, as after I swapped, silver was bombed! Through $35 is very important and also with Jim Sinclair's $1765 for gold, as he says that gold will now enter a super trend. Therefore, gains in both could be highly accelerated from here.

I like what Kevin Trudeau says about gold, and this is that it's vibration is very special and it is good to keep some on your person or in your surroundings all the time. I didn't experience great leaps of luck when I had mine but when I buy some more, I will keep some on me and see if this really works.

I do believe that the inbreeds value gold for it's magical/medicinal properties.

How insane most people would think my posts are, who haven't looked at things from the 'David Icke' side of things. Lol.

[alisa2]

Alan Watts - Money - YouTube

Here's a comment from the video above:

"With future technology, no one need be a lumberjack, fisherman, or drill for oil. Yet, most of us are unable to see this - just as our grandparents were unable to see space travel and the digital revolution. Consider this: The world economic system is now close to collapse. The day it does collapse, there will be no less food, water, housing or energy than there was the day before. All that will be gone is a defunct system of resources measurement that only ever generated corruption & poverty.

[domathy]

50:50 is good and what people like James Turk, from Goldmoney advise. I'm in silver 100% now after having swapped gold for silver and spent some gold too. This is more risky but my silver has done so much better. However, this has been a rough ride so far, as after I swapped, silver was bombed! Through $35 is very important and also with Jim Sinclair's $1765 for gold, as he says that gold will now enter a super trend. Therefore, gains in both could be highly accelerated from here.

I like what Kevin Trudeau says about gold, and this is that it's vibration is very special and it is good to keep some on your person or in your surroundings all the time. I didn't experience great leaps of luck when I had mine but when I buy some more, I will keep some on me and see if this really works.

I do believe that the inbreeds value gold for it's magical/medicinal properties.

How insane most people would think my posts are, who haven't looked at things from the 'David Icke' side of things. Lol.


My friend sold her house in 08 and was advised to go all-in on gold. If she had she would be a millionaire by now. She is torn between the relative safety of buying property, or going for pm;s now and hoping for the best.
I pass on info from this thread and am grateful for all the info you share.

I think that if monkey see monkey do, and so i bought 32 of those silver coins from the link you posted and hopefully she will follow suit once I show her how shiny they are :) as although no one can forecast the future - I reckon metals are a good short term investment at least.

But i didnt know you have to xfer funds to the people selling the metals - is this a safe way to buy, as opposed to paying by card online?

Are gold Pesos any good? they look cheap, and are small so good for trading I guess.

Should I get some coins and some bullion? I mean, I may want to just cash it in if the value goes up and bullion is cheaper than coins.

[alisa2]

Alan Watts:


*"Do you remember the Great Depression? One day everything was going all right. Everybody was pretty wealthy and had plenty to eat. The next day everybody was in poverty. What had happened? Had the fields disappeared; had the dairy vanished into thin air; had the fish of the sea ceased to exist; had human beings lost their energy; their skills and their brains?

No, but on the morning after the Depression a man came to work building a house and the foreman said to him "Sorry chum you can't work today, there ain't no inches." He said "What do you mean there ain't no inches?" "Yeah" he said, "Yeah, we got lumber, we got metal, we even got tape measures." The foreman said "The trouble with you is you don't understand business. There are no inches. We have been using too many of them and there's not enough to go around."

Because what happened in the Great Depression was a slump in money. Human beings are so unbelievably stupid, that they confused money with wealth. They don't realize that money is a measure of wealth, in exactly the same way that meters are a measure of length. They think it is something that is valuable in and of itself. And as a result of that get into unbelievable trouble, in exactly the same way time is nothing but an abstract measure of motion.

And we keep counting time. We have the sensation time is running out, and we bug ourselves with this as we sit and watch the clock. Supposing you are working, are you watching the clock? If you are, what are you waiting for? Time off? Five o'clock, we can go home and have fun? Yeah, fun. What are you going to do when you get home? Have fun? Or are you going to watch TV, which is an electronic reproduction of life which doesn't even smell of anything and eat a TV dinner which is a kind of a warmed over airline nastiness until you just get tired and have to go to sleep. You know, the great society.

This is our problem you see. We are not alive, we are not awake. We are not living in the present."

*This speech was slightly edited for clarification.

[domathy]

Alan Watts:


*"Do you remember the Great Depression? One day everything was going all right. Everybody was pretty wealthy and had plenty to eat. The next day everybody was in poverty. What had happened? Had the fields disappeared; had the dairy vanished into thin air; had the fish of the sea ceased to exist; had human beings lost their energy; their skills and their brains?

No, but on the morning after the Depression a man came to work building a house and the foreman said to him "Sorry chum you can't work today, there ain't no inches." He said "What do you mean there ain't no inches?" "Yeah" he said, "Yeah, we got lumber, we got metal, we even got tape measures." The foreman said "The trouble with you is you don't understand business. There are no inches. We have been using too many of them and there's not enough to go around."

Because what happened in the Great Depression was a slump in money. Human beings are so unbelievably stupid, that they confused money with wealth. They don't realize that money is a measure of wealth, in exactly the same way that meters are a measure of length. They think it is something that is valuable in and of itself. And as a result of that get into unbelievable trouble, in exactly the same way time is nothing but an abstract measure of motion.

And we keep counting time. We have the sensation time is running out, and we bug ourselves with this as we sit and watch the clock. Supposing you are working, are you watching the clock? If you are, what are you waiting for? Time off? Five o'clock, we can go home and have fun? Yeah, fun. What are you going to do when you get home? Have fun? Or are you going to watch TV, which is an electronic reproduction of life which doesn't even smell of anything and eat a TV dinner which is a kind of a warmed over airline nastiness until you just get tired and have to go to sleep. You know, the great society.

This is our problem you see. We are not alive, we are not awake. We are not living in the present."

*This speech was slightly edited for clarification.


I get all that, but whats your point?

[alisa2]

Added information related to the subject.

[icke_is_right]

My friend sold her house in 08 and was advised to go all-in on gold. If she had she would be a millionaire by now. She is torn between the relative safety of buying property, or going for pm;s now and hoping for the best.
I pass on info from this thread and am grateful for all the info you share.

I think that if monkey see monkey do, and so i bought 32 of those silver coins from the link you posted and hopefully she will follow suit once I show her how shiny they are :) as although no one can forecast the future - I reckon metals are a good short term investment at least.

But i didnt know you have to xfer funds to the people selling the metals - is this a safe way to buy, as opposed to paying by card online?

Are gold Pesos any good? they look cheap, and are small so good for trading I guess.

Should I get some coins and some bullion? I mean, I may want to just cash it in if the value goes up and bullion is cheaper than coins.

Domathy, I've recommended www.goldmoney.com in the past as 'second best' way of having metal. If you are looking shorter term, you might want to use this facility as it is a very cheap way of buying and selling, outside the banking system. However, having seen what happened with MF Global and pensions etc., one cannot be sure of what will happen to metal in such storage centers. It's always best to buy, not tell anyone and hide it, however, this is for longer term eg 4 years.

Concerning gold, British coins are CGT free. I haven't owned pesos but you have to look at the purity of the gold they contain then see what gold that you are getting. Pesos are 900/1000 purity, whereas Maples would be 9999/10000. Krugerrands are partly copper to harden them. If you do get coins PLEASE BUY CAPSULES TO PROTECT THE GOLD FROM DENTING! They dent easily. You need to just work out how many grams of gold you are getting for you £.

Many of us have used CID for buying. They are very good. Yes this is normal and obvioulsy cuts down on Credit Card costs which are high. It also means that you can 'lock in a price' and pay a bit later.

If you are just buying one lump, a bullion bar can make more sense too because the spread between buying and selling them back is less. For small amounts CGT won't be much of an issue.

If you are unsure, don't sweat, come back and ask. Always best in the life to follow the carpenters rule of 'measure twice, cut once'.

Yes people believe a property is safe, however, it can always be taken from you, for failure to make certain payments either in tax or otherwise. It's difficult for people who operate from a position of fear and ignorance. Good that your friend sold at that time but sad that she didn't go into SILVER!

I have mentioned that this thread makes it very simple, from the millions of things you could put your money into. It's about 'knowing the product' and 'understanding the environment'. Clearly I've thought from the start that they were going to pump more and more money into the system. A huge amount of experts thought otherwise and I'm not even professional. In fact it's still astounding how little people, even the metal experts, comprehend about the situation. Combine this with govt. suppression of gold and paper scams with not gold/silver backing them, we have an ideal recipe for the future, just by holding metal.

Over the years I've seen a lot and gathered quite a lot of knowledge, much just by observation. For instance, I'd never touch a 'fund' promising returns. I've seen them do the most rediculous things. The markets are rigged too, that we all appreciate here. I don't like shares because shareholders are always the last to be able to abandon ship. This is about taking control, not being subject to fees and charges and then getting on with life, happy that you will not have to work hard, or regret that your pensions or savings have gone up in smoke. In fact I see this as a stage toward liberation, of sorts, once the thinking is correct.

[domathy]

Domathy, I've recommended www.goldmoney.com in the past as 'second best' way of having metal. If you are looking shorter term, you might want to use this facility as it is a very cheap way of buying and selling, outside the banking system. However, having seen what happened with MF Global and pensions etc., one cannot be sure of what will happen to metal in such storage centers. It's always best to buy, not tell anyone and hide it, however, this is for longer term eg 4 years.

Concerning gold, British coins are CGT free. I haven't owned pesos but you have to look at the purity of the gold they contain then see what gold that you are getting. Pesos are 900/1000 purity, whereas Maples would be 9999/10000. Krugerrands are partly copper to harden them. If you do get coins PLEASE BUY CAPSULES TO PROTECT THE GOLD FROM DENTING! They dent easily. You need to just work out how many grams of gold you are getting for you £.

Many of us have used CID for buying. They are very good. Yes this is normal and obvioulsy cuts down on Credit Card costs which are high. It also means that you can 'lock in a price' and pay a bit later.

If you are just buying one lump, a bullion bar can make more sense too because the spread between buying and selling them back is less. For small amounts CGT won't be much of an issue.

If you are unsure, don't sweat, come back and ask. Always best in the life to follow the carpenters rule of 'measure twice, cut once'.

Yes people believe a property is safe, however, it can always be taken from you, for failure to make certain payments either in tax or otherwise. It's difficult for people who operate from a position of fear and ignorance. Good that your friend sold at that time but sad that she didn't go into SILVER!

I have mentioned that this thread makes it very simple, from the millions of things you could put your money into. It's about 'knowing the product' and 'understanding the environment'. Clearly I've thought from the start that they were going to pump more and more money into the system. A huge amount of experts thought otherwise and I'm not even professional. In fact it's still astounding how little people, even the metal experts, comprehend about the situation. Combine this with govt. suppression of gold and paper scams with not gold/silver backing them, we have an ideal recipe for the future, just by holding metal.

Over the years I've seen a lot and gathered quite a lot of knowledge, much just by observation. For instance, I'd never touch a 'fund' promising returns. I've seen them do the most rediculous things. The markets are rigged too, that we all appreciate here. I don't like shares because shareholders are always the last to be able to abandon ship. This is about taking control, not being subject to fees and charges and then getting on with life, happy that you will not have to work hard, or regret that your pensions or savings have gone up in smoke. In fact I see this as a stage toward liberation, of sorts, once the thinking is correct.


Thanks, but investing in gold is not for me unless I can physically take delivery of it - as you say, you just dont know what might happen to your money.


DOes it affect value if coins get dented?

I see now it makes sense for dealers to avoid credit card charges. And i noticed on the invoice, as you said, I dont have to pay right away - so the price is held for a month i think. I might put in another order now, just in case the price goes up, but pay in a few weeks (or not if the price goes down?)

Property seems risky to me, but I can see why people would want to buy houses due to apparant safety of it - but its just conditioning and brainwashing.

Thanks again :)

[blackjimmy]

I might put in another order now, just in case the price goes up, but pay in a few weeks (or not if the price goes down?)


Dealers won't be too happy with that.. locking in the price is a kind of contract, and while you could probably get away with breaking that contract I think morally that's not a great thing to do.. best to be true to your word. Besides one day you may want to sell back to some of these dealers! ;)

[icke_is_right]

Thanks, but investing in gold is not for me unless I can physically take delivery of it - as you say, you just dont know what might happen to your money.


DOes it affect value if coins get dented?

I see now it makes sense for dealers to avoid credit card charges. And i noticed on the invoice, as you said, I dont have to pay right away - so the price is held for a month i think. I might put in another order now, just in case the price goes up, but pay in a few weeks (or not if the price goes down?)

Property seems risky to me, but I can see why people would want to buy houses due to apparant safety of it - but its just conditioning and brainwashing.

Thanks again :)

Tiny dents don't bother dealers too much but larger ones will attract a lower buy back value. My dealer told me to expect something like E30 less on a Krugger with lower condition. If they are so bad then, scrap value. I like to warn people because, a few lines might save you a few quid.

I think that you're expected to pay within 5 days with CID, however just ask them. The analysts are getting very excited about these present levels being broken and expect things to advance rapidly from here................you never know.

I suggest the alternative only because it does suit some people. In the end, it's still better than having cash at the bank! lol. There is quite a lot to comprehend about the subject, with tax and resale. It's best to go in as informed as possible.

[domathy]

Dealers won't be too happy with that.. locking in the price is a kind of contract, and while you could probably get away with breaking that contract I think morally that's not a great thing to do.. best to be true to your word. Besides one day you may want to sell back to some of these dealers! ;)

Okay, Ill be good :)

Tiny dents don't bother dealers too much but larger ones will attract a lower buy back value. My dealer told me to expect something like E30 less on a Krugger with lower condition. If they are so bad then, scrap value. I like to warn people because, a few lines might save you a few quid.

I think that you're expected to pay within 5 days with CID, however just ask them. The analysts are getting very excited about these present levels being broken and expect things to advance rapidly from here................you never know.

I suggest the alternative only because it does suit some people. In the end, it's still better than having cash at the bank! lol. There is quite a lot to comprehend about the subject, with tax and resale. It's best to go in as informed as possible.

This is what it said on the invoice: Please transfer the amount of GBP 972.33 to our account listed on the attached invoice before 08.03.2012.

hopefully the prices with hold where they are, just long enough for me to accumulate a bit more silver anyway.

Im totally uninformed and have no idea how to sell etc - I will read this thread from start to finish some time soon, but im supposed to be doing work atm, and just come on the forum to doss around :o

[geewhizz]

Thanks, but investing in gold is not for me unless I can physically take delivery of it - as you say, you just dont know what might happen to your money.


DOes it affect value if coins get dented?

I see now it makes sense for dealers to avoid credit card charges. And i noticed on the invoice, as you said, I dont have to pay right away - so the price is held for a month i think. I might put in another order now, just in case the price goes up, but pay in a few weeks (or not if the price goes down?)

Property seems risky to me, but I can see why people would want to buy houses due to apparant safety of it - but its just conditioning and brainwashing.

Thanks again :)

Very wise mate, don't EVER go into paper gold, even if it is Mike Maloney saying it is safe.

Physical is the only way.

[geewhizz]

Domathy, I've recommended www.goldmoney.com in the past as 'second best' way of having metal. If you are looking shorter term, you might want to use this facility as it is a very cheap way of buying and selling, outside the banking system. However, having seen what happened with MF Global and pensions etc., one cannot be sure of what will happen to metal in such storage centers. It's always best to buy, not tell anyone and hide it, however, this is for longer term eg 4 years.

Concerning gold, British coins are CGT free. I haven't owned pesos but you have to look at the purity of the gold they contain then see what gold that you are getting. Pesos are 900/1000 purity, whereas Maples would be 9999/10000. Krugerrands are partly copper to harden them. If you do get coins PLEASE BUY CAPSULES TO PROTECT THE GOLD FROM DENTING! They dent easily. You need to just work out how many grams of gold you are getting for you £.

Many of us have used CID for buying. They are very good. Yes this is normal and obvioulsy cuts down on Credit Card costs which are high. It also means that you can 'lock in a price' and pay a bit later.

If you are just buying one lump, a bullion bar can make more sense too because the spread between buying and selling them back is less. For small amounts CGT won't be much of an issue.

If you are unsure, don't sweat, come back and ask. Always best in the life to follow the carpenters rule of 'measure twice, cut once'.

Yes people believe a property is safe, however, it can always be taken from you, for failure to make certain payments either in tax or otherwise. It's difficult for people who operate from a position of fear and ignorance. Good that your friend sold at that time but sad that she didn't go into SILVER!

I have mentioned that this thread makes it very simple, from the millions of things you could put your money into. It's about 'knowing the product' and 'understanding the environment'. Clearly I've thought from the start that they were going to pump more and more money into the system. A huge amount of experts thought otherwise and I'm not even professional. In fact it's still astounding how little people, even the metal experts, comprehend about the situation. Combine this with govt. suppression of gold and paper scams with not gold/silver backing them, we have an ideal recipe for the future, just by holding metal.

Over the years I've seen a lot and gathered quite a lot of knowledge, much just by observation. For instance, I'd never touch a 'fund' promising returns. I've seen them do the most rediculous things. The markets are rigged too, that we all appreciate here. I don't like shares because shareholders are always the last to be able to abandon ship. This is about taking control, not being subject to fees and charges and then getting on with life, happy that you will not have to work hard, or regret that your pensions or savings have gone up in smoke. In fact I see this as a stage toward liberation, of sorts, once the thinking is correct.

Nah, with the VAT on Silver, she wouldn't have made as much as gold has from 08 to present.

VAT is the killer and you don't get very good buy back rates for silver. I have made a bit of profit on ebay selling my 30K of silver. I have about 10 1oz silver coins left and Gold is the only thing that I invest in.

I do hope that one day silver flies to the moon, I would love to see it happen.

[mace]

Nah, with the VAT on Silver, she wouldn't have made as much as gold has from 08 to present.

VAT is the killer and you don't get very good buy back rates for silver. I have made a bit of profit on ebay selling my 30K of silver. I have about 10 1oz silver coins left and Gold is the only thing that I invest in.

I do hope that one day silver flies to the moon, I would love to see it happen.

Sure is. It needs to rise 20% from the second you buy it in order to simply break even. I did very well on the first batch I bought (bought for about £10 an ounce) but since then I'm in negative equity.

Gold on the other hand has been a good investment.

If silver doesn't rise over the years then I'm a bit screwed, lol.

[icke_is_right]

Nah, with the VAT on Silver, she wouldn't have made as much as gold has from 08 to present.

VAT is the killer and you don't get very good buy back rates for silver. I have made a bit of profit on ebay selling my 30K of silver. I have about 10 1oz silver coins left and Gold is the only thing that I invest in.

I do hope that one day silver flies to the moon, I would love to see it happen.

You won't catch me recommending buying a house worth of silver for UK VAT rates. I think that the VAT rate back then was 17.5%. I have always highlighted buying in Germany at 7% and people mainly opt for www.goldmoney.com with this amount of cash, which excludes VAT.

I have always tried to push people away from this route. With about £300,000+ worth of silver, I wouldn't recommend selling back to the dealer or on ebay.

The Real Hunt Story Part 1

SBSS 15. The Real Hunt Story Part 1 - YouTube

'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swrrAQBsEE0&feature=player_embedded'


The Real Hunt Story Part 2

SBSS 16 The Real Hunt Story Part 2 - YouTube

'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoBgXW2SGWk'

[mace]

How does goldmoney work IIR? You basically pay them to hold it for you?
I'm thinking of doing some quick investments in gold instead of buying and storing, so is this the right thing? Or is it better to buy shares? I won't be holding on to them for long, just long enough to make a few quid...

[icke_is_right]

How does goldmoney work IIR? You basically pay them to hold it for you?
I'm thinking of doing some quick investments in gold instead of buying and storing, so is this the right thing? Or is it better to buy shares? I won't be holding on to them for long, just long enough to make a few quid...

They hold metal in storage, outside the banking system, for you eg Switzerland.

The sound of quick investments doesn't sound good to me as the key to success is having the right product and holding long term. If gold/silver do go ballistic, all you want to be doing, is holding them as the volatility looks like it's going to go completely mental. The goal is to wait until we leave paper prices and metal is priced properly on real supply and demand, or somewhere near it.

Shares are expected to be incredible if you get the right ones. So if you have money just sitting there, a few hundred quid in a few companies that satisfy a massive list of requirements eg up and running, good mgt, good cash postion and a load of proved resources.............why not. However, I find this business annoying as the last shares that I bought, doubled and then I was forced to sell with as the company was bought out, way under their value by another company. Again, holding long term, you could see a 10c share go to $100.

[mace]

The sound of quick investments doesn't sound good to me as the key to success is having the right product and holding long term.

I agree somewhat, but also disagree too.
There is quick money (not big money) to be made in short term investments. For example, if I'd have bought 20 ounces of gold when it dropped to $1500 a few months back, then I'd have made $4000 now (with the price going back up to $1700+).
If gold drops back to the $1500 range then I'll be buying to sell it within a few months as I already have my long term physical that won't be going anywhere :)

[icke_is_right]

I agree somewhat, but also disagree too.
There is quick money (not big money) to be made in short term investments. For example, if I'd have bought 20 ounces of gold when it dropped to $1500 a few months back, then I'd have made $4000 now (with the price going back up to $1700+).
If gold drops back to the $1500 range then I'll be buying to sell it within a few months as I already have my long term physical that won't be going anywhere :)

The key here is 'if'. Let us know how you get on, if you proceed. Maybe this is right for you.

I must add, I expected a x50 gain with my shares as they were good and had 4000 tonnes silver in the ground. The price that they were bought out at was miniscule and I was forced by the majority shareholders to sell my treasured company to a Jap concern. The shares were CBH Resources in Australia. Frustrating shit. OK, rather negative attitude but I just get sick of all the BS that you cannot control, hence I like the simplicity of bullion.

[blackjimmy]

I agree somewhat, but also disagree too.
There is quick money (not big money) to be made in short term investments. For example, if I'd have bought 20 ounces of gold when it dropped to $1500 a few months back, then I'd have made $4000 now (with the price going back up to $1700+).
If gold drops back to the $1500 range then I'll be buying to sell it within a few months as I already have my long term physical that won't be going anywhere :)

I get where you are coming from looking at the recent ups and downs in the market, but when you consider the potential for unbelievable gains that each oz has in the (increasingly) near future, 'selling' is not something in my vocabulary at all at the moment! :D Good work if you can realize a short term profit, but the risk of being caught 'out' of the market when this thing SHIFTS would cause me concerns at night I think!

A question for you IIR.. what indicators are you going to be considering to get you out near the top when this finally goes into a bubble? Gold/Silver ratio? Gold/DJIA ratio? Also MM has suggested that gold may go into a bubble first, followed later by silver.. in which case perhaps converting gold to silver at some point might be a good stategy do you think? although i know you have said that you hold almost all silver now anyway...

[icke_is_right]

I get where you are coming from looking at the recent ups and downs in the market, but when you consider the potential for unbelievable gains that each oz has in the (increasingly) near future, 'selling' is not something in my vocabulary at all at the moment! :D Good work if you can realize a short term profit, but the risk of being caught 'out' of the market when this thing SHIFTS would cause me concerns at night I think!

A question for you IIR.. what indicators are you going to be considering to get you out near the top when this finally goes into a bubble? Gold/Silver ratio? Gold/DJIA ratio? Also MM has suggested that gold may go into a bubble first, followed later by silver.. in which case perhaps converting gold to silver at some point might be a good stategy do you think? although i know you have said that you hold almost all silver now anyway...

I'll talk from an idealistic point of view. Firstly, I think that I agree with the analysts such as Turk and Douglas that it may well not be a case of selling at a top, as silver is definitely becoming more rare, so therefore over time, it looks like prices will hold. Same with gold. Hence where we are going now might be not be a case of a top, that then subsides again for many years.

I will be signing up to Mike Maloney's cycles service, to get an idea of what's going on, some years into the future. He has a team working on such ratios and 'when to sell'. He has excellent information and it's worth paying for. Many here will agree that his book is fantastic value for money. So much info in it.

We are a long way off and this is really too far into the future as we need to get a long way from here and the journey hasn't been easy, until this point.

We're over $36 today in silver and gold remains above $1764, just paper manipulation numbers but at such levels many shorts have to retreat in the paper market. As you will have read, people are getting very excited about potential metal prices from here. I hope that they are right and that we enter and strengthening uptrend in the metals. Let's hope paper price manipulation soon ends.

[wake_up_bomb]

I happened to see this article today:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-28/gold-s-use-to-back-value-of-dollar-would-be-impractical-or-even-damaging-.html

Gold’s Use to Back Value of Dollar Would be Impractical or ‘Even Damaging’

Gold’s use to back the value of the dollar would be impractical and there is little scope for the metal to play a more formal role in the international monetary system, U.K. research institute Chatham House said.

While a higher gold price may reflect a lack of confidence in key currencies and low returns on other assets, there’s no consistent correlation between bullion and economic variables that could be used to inform policy decision making, according to a task force that discussed possible roles for gold. The metal can be used to hedge against currency devaluation and other risks as part of a portfolio, but not on its own, it said.

Richard Nixon, the former U.S. president, abandoned the Bretton Woods arrangement four decades ago. Between 1968 and 1971, the metal and the dollar were officially exchanged at a fixed rate after the system had tied gold at about $35 an ounce, according to the World Gold Council. Central banks are expanding bullion reserves for the first time in a generation as prices gained for 11 consecutive years, reaching a record in September.

“Reintroducing gold as an anchor would undoubtedly be impractical or even damaging, given bullion’s deflationary bias,” the task force, which held discussions over eight months, said in a report today. “Gold can serve as a hedge against declining values of key fiat currencies, and can also be useful for central banks looking to diversify their foreign reserves.”

Gold Standard

While the gold standard may no longer exist, nations and international organizations still have 30,877 metric tons of bullion reserves, valued at about $1.77 trillion, according to the London-based council. Gold for immediate delivery reached a record $1,921.15 an ounce in London in September.

The dollar has been the world’s reserve currency since the U.S. and allies agreed at the 1944 Bretton Woods conference to peg it to a rate of $35 an ounce of gold. It remained the most- traded legal tender after global currencies began freely floating in the early 1970s. The greenback dropped 12 percent against a basket of six major currencies since March 2009. The U.K. suspended the gold standard in 1931, Chatham House said.

“Greater discipline on financial markets might have been helpful in inhibiting the reckless banking and excessive debt accumulation of the past decade,” the task force said. “However, with the onset of the global crisis, had gold had a more formal role to play, the rigidity it imposes might also have been a handicap when a more flexible policy response was required.”
SDR Inclusion?

Including gold in the International Monetary Fund’s Special Drawing Rights system probably wouldn’t bring substantial benefits, and adding developing economies’ currencies to the basket would be more desirable, according to the task force. SDRs were created in 1969 and are an artificial currency that IMF members use to settle accounts with each other and can be converted into hard currencies.

Chatham House was founded in 1920 and is based in London. Members of the gold task force include Gerard Lyons, chief economist at Standard Chartered Plc, Meghnad Desai, professor emeritus of the London School of Economics and a member of Britain’s House of Lords, and Catherine Schenk, a professor of international economic history at the University of Glasgow.
“For gold to play a more formal role in the international monetary system, it would be imperative for it neither to hamper the system’s performance nor to create unacceptable constraints on national economic policies,” the task force said. Gold may “continue playing a significant role in the international monetary system, serving as a valuable hedge and safe haven, particularly in times when tail risks predominate.”Chatham House not biased, of course...

http://i42.tinypic.com/smgaqe.png
http://i42.tinypic.com/2qktaq9.png

[blackjimmy]

I'll talk from an idealistic point of view. Firstly, I think that I agree with the analysts such as Turk and Douglas that it may well not be a case of selling at a top, as silver is definitely becoming more rare, so therefore over time, it looks like prices will hold. Same with gold. Hence where we are going now might be not be a case of a top, that then subsides again for many years.

I will be signing up to Mike Maloney's cycles service, to get an idea of what's going on, some years into the future. He has a team working on such ratios and 'when to sell'. He has excellent information and it's worth paying for. Many here will agree that his book is fantastic value for money. So much info in it.

We are a long way off and this is really too far into the future as we need to get a long way from here and the journey hasn't been easy, until this point.

We're over $36 today in silver and gold remains above $1764, just paper manipulation numbers but at such levels many shorts have to retreat in the paper market. As you will have read, people are getting very excited about potential metal prices from here. I hope that they are right and that we enter and strengthening uptrend in the metals. Let's hope paper price manipulation soon ends.

I was also thinking about signing up to MM's wealth cycles service at some point as I agree that his information and analysis is excellent. I hadn't heard about that prediction of gold/silver prices holding at a high level, although once the paper manipulation is over and the true rarity of silver is allowed to be determined by the market I could see that there may not be any reason for the price to come down.. although would not the mania of the last stages of the public rushing in push PM's into being overvalued? Also potentially the cash flowing investments such as real-estate and dividend yielding stocks could be undervalued at that point so it could be worth selling PM's and switching, rather than holding metals?

Do you still see this as being a long way off into the future? It seems to me that the central banks are (in the words of maloney) 'scared shitless' right now, trying to paper over the cracks in the dyke, stop contagion, and stop enough people realising the real state of things. I know they have many 'fiscal' tools to continue to kick this can down the road, but somehow it doesn't feel that far off before the critical mass of people waking up causes the public mood to shift.. It feels like we are on an exponential; at the end of the beginning stage where the growth doesn't look that much but then all of a sudden it explodes. I know it's very hard to be precise but how far off 'the main event' do you feel we are?

As always thanks for your input, this thread was the impetus for a intense and sustained change in my world view and my mindset, and the start of my financial education...

[icke_is_right]

I was also thinking about signing up to MM's wealth cycles service at some point as I agree that his information and analysis is excellent. I hadn't heard about that prediction of gold/silver prices holding at a high level, although once the paper manipulation is over and the true rarity of silver is allowed to be determined by the market I could see that there may not be any reason for the price to come down.. although would not the mania of the last stages of the public rushing in push PM's into being overvalued? Also potentially the cash flowing investments such as real-estate and dividend yielding stocks could be undervalued at that point so it could be worth selling PM's and switching, rather than holding metals?

Do you still see this as being a long way off into the future? It seems to me that the central banks are (in the words of maloney) 'scared shitless' right now, trying to paper over the cracks in the dyke, stop contagion, and stop enough people realising the real state of things. I know they have many 'fiscal' tools to continue to kick this can down the road, but somehow it doesn't feel that far off before the critical mass of people waking up causes the public mood to shift.. It feels like we are on an exponential; at the end of the beginning stage where the growth doesn't look that much but then all of a sudden it explodes. I know it's very hard to be precise but how far off 'the main event' do you feel we are?

As always thanks for your input, this thread was the impetus for a intense and sustained change in my world view and my mindset, and the start of my financial education...

SILVER MAY BECOME EXTINCT by 2020!

SILVER MAY BECOME EXTINCT by 2020! - YouTube

'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvN2yT_jEPM'

Yes there may be a mania where things go wild but how long this lasts, I don't know. The housing mania has gone on for decades.....when we should switch, I don't know. The conversations in pubs in the UK always came back to house prices for years. This has the potential to last many years into the future.

As for the timing, this latest push south with prices over the last months wasn't expected. They have printed TRILLIONS behind the scenes and eventually this will have to show up. We throw around these numbers quite a lot but when you consider what a trillion is, it's quite amazing. All I know is that at some stage, probably when they decide, they will make the public panic. This is sort of happening now, by the looks of things but people are rather slow and the finance community are the most lizard brained, asleep people you get. Don't expect the penny to drop until people are severely and directly effected. As with the Greek people right now.

There is a lot of talk about the 20th March. Will Greece be able to make payments etc.? Knowing what you know, would you be playing the paper market in the metals? Well a lot of experts with a lot of money are still. When will they wake up? Probably only when they have lost all their money. They are chasing what they see as 'quick and easy profits'. They may make them for a while but in this game of musical chairs, being patient and doing the simplest strategy, will probably have the highest reward.

In the end, it's a bit like ordering a house to be built in Spain. Dress the salesman up in a smart suit, spout some BS and suddenly all your money has gone because you went into something blind with a lot of faith.

Holding a coin in you own hand, doesn't require much. No one need know you have it, therefore, no one can think about taking it but it is likely that 1000's of people will offer more and more money for it. This will be when they realise how much they depend on it and how blind they've been. The silver slaughter awaits the sheep, they use it everyday without having a clue. Same too with gold but the difference is, that banks hold it and it hasn't been landfilled by the billion oz.

[icke_is_right]

ERIC SPROTT 2012- SILVER MARKET OUTLOOK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TjCjP5vasIY

'http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TjCjP5vasIY'

[geewhizz]

Another correction today, it's so volatile.

[mace]

Both gold and silver shot down at about the same time. What caused it?

[icke_is_right]

Both gold and silver shot down at about the same time. What caused it?

Shot down like that is govt backed manipulation. Totally blatant.

[icke_is_right]

Sinclair: Today was a Cover-Up By the Fed & Mainstream Media


http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2012/3/1_Sinclair__Today_was_a_Cover-Up_By_the_Fed_%26_Mainstream_Media.html

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2012/3/1_Jim_Sinclair.html

[h2pogo]

Both gold and silver shot down at about the same time. What caused it?

MSM were saying Bernankies comments caused it..I think this was part of his speech?
Were they attempting to discreditd Dr Paul?
And give Bernaky some kind of credibility?
Knowing that after the MFglobal scam they can steal the accounts of those who want delivery on physical?
Stealing being more profitable as fraud?

Ron Paul Assaults Ben Bernanke On Parallel Currencies - YouTube

[domathy]

Shot down like that is govt backed manipulation. Totally blatant.

Seems like toomuch to be cooincidence that they just did a huge feature about gold on the one show on telly. (didnt mention the prie of gold - just talking in general)

So, is now a good time for me to buy some gold??? Talk of it dropping to £625! So hard to know whats bs




Sharp falls in the gold price have prompted some bears or pessimists to predict it will plunge below $1,000 (£625) an ounce.

Even specialist dealers, such as GoldCore, talked of “blood in the gold and silver trading pits as leveraged longs got their heads handed to them on a plate”.

Goldcore priced bullion at $1,721 or £1,079 per ounce this morning, compared to yesterday’s fix of $1,788 or £1,121 per ounce. A spokesman said: “The massacre is attributed to a host of different reasons – from month end book squaring to Bernanke’s suggestion that ultra loose monetary policies may soon come to an end.

“None of these reasons would justify the scale of the massive sell offs seen in gold and silver yesterday. Gold and silver markets saw massive sell orders from large institutional sources – as only large institutions selling could have caused a price falls of the magnitude seen yesterday.”

Brian Dennehy of independent financial advisers (IFAs) Dennehy Weller commented: “Yet again the ‘safe haven’ myth of gold has exploded. It went down during intraday trading by about $100.

“This doesn’t mean the bull market has ended. It just means that when you buy gold you must do so with your eyes open – it is a highly volatile fringe asset.

“Our technical analysis suggests one of two possibilities. That the bull run is over and the price will eventually work its way down into the $700 to $1,000 range – or one final high lies just ahead before that large correction towards $1,000 will begin.”

Perhaps unsurprisingly, Adrian Ash of BullionVault took a different view: “The uptrend starting at Lehmans’ collapse remains unbroken, monetary policy remains abject worldwide, and the debt crisis remains unfixed and unaddressed.

“Extricating yourself from credit risk with physical bullion of course exposes you to price risk. That risk is growing more volatile the longer we spend behind the looking glass of sub-zero real rates.”

Perhaps at this point I ought to declare an interest, lest anyone accuse your humble correspondent of attempting to manipulate the global gold price; I hold some BlackRock Gold & General in my self invested personal pension.

More importantly, some IFAs support Mr Ash’s view that recent turbulence will prove no more than a short-term blip. Ben Yearsley at Hargreaves Lansdown said: “I don’t think the position on gold shares has really changed.

“The gold price has remained high and gold shares haven’t really moved therefore the disconnect between their profits and share prices remains. The world is still in an uncertain place therefore the demand for gold will remain strong, therefore underpinning the gold price and underpinning gold miners profits. So the outlook for gold shares remains good.”

Similarly, Alan Steel of Alan Steel Asset Management, said: “We may have the odd correction in price but gold is on a long haul secular bull market – in other words, the main direction is up.

“However, the crowd gets extremely pessimistic or optimistic from time to time. So we should see a short shallow fall in price which I’d view as a buying opportunity.

“We are not out of the woods yet on government debt in the West. Or, as we say up here in Scotland, governments are on a shoogly peg . As long as that’s the case and interest rates remain low, there’s a strong case for holding a portion of gold – in an exchange traded fund, unit trust or whatever – as an insurance policy. I certainly do.”

So, barbaric relic whose bull run is nearing its end or a long-term store of value that governments cannot devalue? Amid all the excitement of opposing views, it is worth remembering that despite recent setbacks, the gold price remains more than 9pc higher than it started the year.

[icke_is_right]

They might wack the price down again a bit more but they might not. I have always felt better with my money in real metal.

The MSM and usual naysayers have been against gold for 10 years or more. Don't worry about this predictions of £625. They've just pumped a shit load more trash into the system and will continue to do so. Now we wait for the penny to drop and for the public to panic. When they do so, it will be like nothing that we've ever seen in our lives.


Billionaire Hugo Salinas Price - Central Banks Smashed Gold


http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2012/3/1_Billionaire_Hugo_Salinas_Price_-_Central_Banks_Smashed_Gold.html

[webby]

Seems like toomuch to be cooincidence that they just did a huge feature about gold on the one show on telly. (didnt mention the prie of gold - just talking in general)

So, is now a good time for me to buy some gold??? Talk of it dropping to £625! So hard to know whats bs




Sharp falls in the gold price have prompted some bears or pessimists to predict it will plunge below $1,000 (£625) an ounce.

Even specialist dealers, such as GoldCore, talked of “blood in the gold and silver trading pits as leveraged longs got their heads handed to them on a plate”.

Goldcore priced bullion at $1,721 or £1,079 per ounce this morning, compared to yesterday’s fix of $1,788 or £1,121 per ounce. A spokesman said: “The massacre is attributed to a host of different reasons – from month end book squaring to Bernanke’s suggestion that ultra loose monetary policies may soon come to an end.

“None of these reasons would justify the scale of the massive sell offs seen in gold and silver yesterday. Gold and silver markets saw massive sell orders from large institutional sources – as only large institutions selling could have caused a price falls of the magnitude seen yesterday.”

Brian Dennehy of independent financial advisers (IFAs) Dennehy Weller commented: “Yet again the ‘safe haven’ myth of gold has exploded. It went down during intraday trading by about $100.

“This doesn’t mean the bull market has ended. It just means that when you buy gold you must do so with your eyes open – it is a highly volatile fringe asset.

“Our technical analysis suggests one of two possibilities. That the bull run is over and the price will eventually work its way down into the $700 to $1,000 range – or one final high lies just ahead before that large correction towards $1,000 will begin.”

Perhaps unsurprisingly, Adrian Ash of BullionVault took a different view: “The uptrend starting at Lehmans’ collapse remains unbroken, monetary policy remains abject worldwide, and the debt crisis remains unfixed and unaddressed.

“Extricating yourself from credit risk with physical bullion of course exposes you to price risk. That risk is growing more volatile the longer we spend behind the looking glass of sub-zero real rates.”

Perhaps at this point I ought to declare an interest, lest anyone accuse your humble correspondent of attempting to manipulate the global gold price; I hold some BlackRock Gold & General in my self invested personal pension.

More importantly, some IFAs support Mr Ash’s view that recent turbulence will prove no more than a short-term blip. Ben Yearsley at Hargreaves Lansdown said: “I don’t think the position on gold shares has really changed.

“The gold price has remained high and gold shares haven’t really moved therefore the disconnect between their profits and share prices remains. The world is still in an uncertain place therefore the demand for gold will remain strong, therefore underpinning the gold price and underpinning gold miners profits. So the outlook for gold shares remains good.”

Similarly, Alan Steel of Alan Steel Asset Management, said: “We may have the odd correction in price but gold is on a long haul secular bull market – in other words, the main direction is up.

“However, the crowd gets extremely pessimistic or optimistic from time to time. So we should see a short shallow fall in price which I’d view as a buying opportunity.

“We are not out of the woods yet on government debt in the West. Or, as we say up here in Scotland, governments are on a shoogly peg . As long as that’s the case and interest rates remain low, there’s a strong case for holding a portion of gold – in an exchange traded fund, unit trust or whatever – as an insurance policy. I certainly do.”

So, barbaric relic whose bull run is nearing its end or a long-term store of value that governments cannot devalue? Amid all the excitement of opposing views, it is worth remembering that despite recent setbacks, the gold price remains more than 9pc higher than it started the year.

This tune of 'gold not a safe haven' 'volatile risk asset' 'bull market over' is an old, old record that has been playing over and over as gold continues on to new highs, again and again.

Just the usual propaganda to scare people out of holding gold, it always coincides with a manipulated drop. And it works very well to rattle people, me included.But I don't want my wealth anywhere else

To me its an intuitive thing,I call bullshit on this kind of propaganda, as its obviously coming from a sociopathic system trying to maintain itself and keep itself going

We have years to go yet in this bull market, don't let this crap phase you. I freaked out during silvers drop, only to find that it only bounced back. I have learned a good lesson from that experience

[domathy]

They might wack the price down again a bit more but they might not. I have always felt better with my money in real metal.

The MSM and usual naysayers have been against gold for 10 years or more. Don't worry about this predictions of £625. They've just pumped a shit load more trash into the system and will continue to do so. Now we wait for the penny to drop and for the public to panic. When they do so, it will be like nothing that we've ever seen in our lives.


Billionaire Hugo Salinas Price - Central Banks Smashed Gold


http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2012/3/1_Billionaire_Hugo_Salinas_Price_-_Central_Banks_Smashed_Gold.html

This tune of 'gold not a safe haven' 'volatile risk asset' 'bull market over' is an old, old record that has been playing over and over as gold continues on to new highs, again and again.

Just the usual propaganda to scare people out of holding gold, it always coincides with a manipulated drop. And it works very well to rattle people, me included.But I don't want my wealth anywhere else

To me its an intuitive thing,I call bullshit on this kind of propaganda, as its obviously coming from a sociopathic system trying to maintain itself and keep itself going

We have years to go yet in this bull market, don't let this crap phase you. I freaked out during silvers drop, only to find that it only bounced back. I have learned a good lesson from that experience

I also feel safer putting money in metal - but would be pissed if i bought now and then it did drop down to £625.....but even i figured the chances of that happening would be slim and this is all just a blip. So I guess now is probably a good time to buy.

[wake_up_bomb]

I also feel safer putting money in metal - but would be pissed if i bought now and then it did drop down to £625.....but even i figured the chances of that happening would be slim and this is all just a blip. So I guess now is probably a good time to buy.You might feel more reassured if you read the responses to this thread:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=175876

[icke_is_right]

I also feel safer putting money in metal - but would be pissed if i bought now and then it did drop down to £625.....but even i figured the chances of that happening would be slim and this is all just a blip. So I guess now is probably a good time to buy.

I suppose I got quite emotional when I exited fiat trash. I just couldn't wait to get out of their filthy system. They'd already trashed the GBP against the EUR which made me a lot poorer some time previously and like all things NWO, when you become really conscious of them, you just don't want to touch them again, eg flouride, chemicals. OK, the smart arses are going to say that metal is 'their game' too, however, it's totally different to fiat money.

James Turk always recommends buying on a set date per month, to take the emotion out of buying. This way you accumilate over time and get an average price.

The paper price CAN reach any figure. It's just at this stage where so many dealers are waking up to this business, it is expected that they deviate from such manipulated prices, to cover their own arses. Therefore if £625 was ever achieved, (I think it's about as likely as Bernanke telling the truth), physical prices will not go anywhere near this. As Wake Up has pointed out, with the amount of trash that they are printing right now behind the scenes, I expect that something big is going to kick off in the next months. I think we all do really.

I just saw this headline and it's something I've warned about constantly during this thread. (It's not rocket science but as many already know, this game is about having a clear strategy and sticking to it).



Is the mortgage timebomb about to go off? RBS and NatWest hike home loan rates for 200,000 customers - and Halifax could be next

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2109335/Fears-thousands-homeowners-face-repossession-taxpayer-backed-NatWest-hikes-mortgage-prices-200-000-customers.html#ixzz1nzbNy3Wz

[_lij_]

IIR - Do you know the real reason why the government are capping UK citizens to buy £10k of gold a year?!

This is really frustrating me!!

Its obviously a sign of whats to come..

[indolering]

I also feel safer putting money in metal - but would be pissed if i bought now and then it did drop down to £625.....but even i figured the chances of that happening would be slim and this is all just a blip. So I guess now is probably a good time to buy.

I bought 10 oz of gold just before the price dipped the other day...know what? I don't give a fuck. I'm so glad to be getting out of fiat. Waiting now on 400 oz of silver, will be here next week. Right now I'm 40% gold, 60% silver, but will be investing only in silver from here on.... Thanks again, IIR. Just ordered Maloney's book too (finally). I'll be getting it along with Icke's latest next week. Exciting times....:D

[blackjimmy]

I bought 10 oz of gold just before the price dipped the other day...know what? I don't give a fuck. I'm so glad to be getting out of fiat. Waiting now on 400 oz of silver, will be here next week. Right now I'm 40% gold, 60% silver, but will be investing only in silver from here on.... Thanks again, IIR. Just ordered Maloney's book too (finally). I'll be getting it along with Icke's latest next week. Exciting times....:D

I bought most of mine on that high last august/september... measured in currency I'm still to get out of the red with my investments. But like you I don't care. Compared to where this is going what does it matter. Also like you I'm intending to buy only silver from now on..

[blackjimmy]

James Turk always recommends buying on a set date per month, to take the emotion out of buying. This way you accumilate over time and get an average price.

IIR what is your feeling on goldmoney? I have a core position of physical that I keep at home, but I also currently have quite a bit with goldmoney. I would like to start doing something like James Turk suggests and buy some silver every month.. but obviously getting a few oz at a time from germany is not going to be cost effective thefore goldmoney seems ideal for this.. do you think goldmoney is a good/safe alternative to getting physical delivery? James Turk seems to be a trustworthy kind of guy.. but in the back of my mind I have Maloney saying 'if you can't touch it you don't own it'! I'm pretty sure he was referring to the ETFs and the like, but still makes me wonder how safe goldmoney is.. TPTB have many tricks. What do you think?

[godner]

IIR - Do you know the real reason why the government are capping UK citizens to buy £10k of gold a year?!

This is really frustrating me!!

Its obviously a sign of whats to come..

But does that really matter when there are still precious metal dealers about who won't log your details?

Get buying from these dealers while you still can.
It's plain to see that the gubbernment/mafia establishment will close down this option ASAP.

Just got meself another nice sovereign yesterday, no ID, no name, and certainly no photo.
Fook 'em.

[icke_is_right]

IIR - Do you know the real reason why the government are capping UK citizens to buy £10k of gold a year?!

This is really frustrating me!!

Its obviously a sign of whats to come..

I am aware of gold purchases, over £5000 a year, that you have to register but I've not heard of capping. This would mean that people couldn't buy much gold and this would be massive news, sending all trade underground.

The registration of purchases in gold, means that they want to know who's got it and what they are doing with their money. As for tracing, I don't know because I spent all mine on Mandela, Smack and Crack party packs.

Harry & Paul - Nelson Mandela Smack And Crack Party Pack - YouTube

'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdpV59Ak3TQ'

The more extreme people buy privately and have everything unregistered.

[icke_is_right]

IIR what is your feeling on goldmoney? I have a core position of physical that I keep at home, but I also currently have quite a bit with goldmoney. I would like to start doing something like James Turk suggests and buy some silver every month.. but obviously getting a few oz at a time from germany is not going to be cost effective thefore goldmoney seems ideal for this.. do you think goldmoney is a good/safe alternative to getting physical delivery? James Turk seems to be a trustworthy kind of guy.. but in the back of my mind I have Maloney saying 'if you can't touch it you don't own it'! I'm pretty sure he was referring to the ETFs and the like, but still makes me wonder how safe goldmoney is.. TPTB have many tricks. What do you think?

I feel Goldmoney is a very cheap way of buying and selling metal but it is second best to self storage, long term. Though GM is out of the banking system, they will have to comply to any new regulations that come along, which recently happened. (I think that it was Dutch citizens, who are banned from using the service and therefore had to leave and sell their holdings, (Don't quote me on that, I have to check up on the country/regs involved however that was a good example)). We expect different things to be sprung upon us. When you have the metal yourself, it's under your control and you decide generally what you are going to do and if you are going to comply with any BS. It also means that you become your own bank. What this means is that you could effectively sell privately for cash and go on about your business, more privately.

Yes, it's simple, if you don't have it in your possession, you have less control and have to trust others with it. Businesses are going to comply with govt regs as it's not their own money and in the end, they have themselves to look out for first. However, having a huge amount in one place isn't wise either.

It's perhaps best to be wary and prepared to react to new situations arising.

[icke_is_right]

But does that really matter when there are still precious metal dealers about who won't log your details?

Get buying from these dealers while you still can.
It's plain to see that the gubbernment/mafia establishment will close down this option ASAP.

Just got meself another nice sovereign yesterday, no ID, no name, and certainly no photo.
Fook 'em.

Yes fuck them indeed. I don't want to comply with any of their BS. I want to live free on the land and create my own reality. Hopefully when enough people wake up, our group consciousness can start directing the world more.

We are all their commercial law breakers. That's the way that they want it to seem. I will continue to defy their rules as much as possible.

[domathy]

You might feel more reassured if you read the responses to this thread:

Thanks.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=175876

I suppose I got quite emotional when I exited fiat trash. I just couldn't wait to get out of their filthy system. They'd already trashed the GBP against the EUR which made me a lot poorer some time previously and like all things NWO, when you become really conscious of them, you just don't want to touch them again, eg flouride, chemicals. OK, the smart arses are going to say that metal is 'their game' too, however, it's totally different to fiat money.

James Turk always recommends buying on a set date per month, to take the emotion out of buying. This way you accumilate over time and get an average price.

The paper price CAN reach any figure. It's just at this stage where so many dealers are waking up to this business, it is expected that they deviate from such manipulated prices, to cover their own arses. Therefore if £625 was ever achieved, (I think it's about as likely as Bernanke telling the truth), physical prices will not go anywhere near this. As Wake Up has pointed out, with the amount of trash that they are printing right now behind the scenes, I expect that something big is going to kick off in the next months. I think we all do really.

I just saw this headline and it's something I've warned about constantly during this thread. (It's not rocket science but as many already know, this game is about having a clear strategy and sticking to it).



Is the mortgage timebomb about to go off? RBS and NatWest hike home loan rates for 200,000 customers - and Halifax could be next

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2109335/Fears-thousands-homeowners-face-repossession-taxpayer-backed-NatWest-hikes-mortgage-prices-200-000-customers.html#ixzz1nzbNy3Wz

I see you have a score to settle with fiat :D

The fact that so many people (especially ones whodont know the arse from the elbow) on this forum seem opposed to metals - makes me believe 'Icke Is Right'.......is right! :)

the idea of buying on a set day makes sense, but these price fluctuations wont really affect me as im buying relatively small amounts. my only concern is prices go way high before i have a chance to accumulate enough worth having. I need a couple more months at this rate.

I bought 10 oz of gold just before the price dipped the other day...know what? I don't give a fuck. I'm so glad to be getting out of fiat. Waiting now on 400 oz of silver, will be here next week. Right now I'm 40% gold, 60% silver, but will be investing only in silver from here on.... Thanks again, IIR. Just ordered Maloney's book too (finally). I'll be getting it along with Icke's latest next week. Exciting times....:D

Yeah, its just a few hundred dollars afterall.

Im mostly bummed about the fact dealers wont ship to a delivery address, so I will need to take time off just to receive the delivery. Plus, my gran just died and I was already advanced my £20k share of the inherritance years ago - which I could be putting to much better use right now.

[the apprentice]

I see you have a score to settle with fiat :D

The fact that so many people (especially ones whodont know the arse from the elbow) on this forum seem opposed to metals - makes me believe 'Icke Is Right'.......is right! :)

the idea of buying on a set day makes sense, but these price fluctuations wont really affect me as im buying relatively small amounts. my only concern is prices go way high before i have a chance to accumulate enough worth having. I need a couple more months at this rate.



Yeah, its just a few hundred dollars afterall.

Im mostly bummed about the fact dealers wont ship to a delivery address, so I will need to take time off just to receive the delivery. Plus, my gran just died and I was already advanced my £20k share of the inherritance years ago - which I could be putting to much better use right now.

Sorry to hear about your recent loss Dom, we lost someone not long ago due to NHS faults.

As you know if you have seen my replies I say that skills is the way forward and I still do, but something real is just that, if the paper dies all your savings go with it in a blink of an eye.

If you have spare money left after paying of say a noose of a mortgage or loan the most secure place IS in metals in house if you have next to no skills.
A word of warning however if you insure your stash the government then know where to steal it from, which they have done in the past, I guess you know best not to buy it from a bank.

Best of both worlds in any downturn is skills first then something real like land and gold.

IF it turns fury the two entities left worth anything is those with the skills and knowledge that rebuild society afterwards, the labour.

If you have both your sure to survive if your in demand and your smart, and once a plan stick to it.

[domathy]

Sorry to hear about your recent loss Dom, we lost someone not long ago due to NHS faults.

As you know if you have seen my replies I say that skills is the way forward and I still do, but something real is just that, if the paper dies all your savings go with it in a blink of an eye.

If you have spare money left after paying of say a noose of a mortgage or loan the most secure place IS in metals in house if you have next to no skills.
A word of warning however if you insure your stash the government then know where to steal it from, which they have done in the past, I guess you know best not to buy it from a bank.

Best of both worlds in any downturn is skills first then something real like land and gold.

IF it turns fury the two entities left worth anything is those with the skills and knowledge that rebuild society afterwards, the labour.

If you have both your sure to survive if your in demand and your smart, and once a plan stick to it.

Thanks. She did die from NHS treatment but not malpractice as such, just them not knowing how to heal people. But was her time to go at a good age of 92.

Im kind of hoping I can just get by with a bit of metal tbh. I can fit double glazing to a mediocre standard, and have a few other abilities - but if the economy collapes fully I may just have to resort to pimping my girlfriend out to survive.
Most people, myself included, are lazy and useless - so im hoping there is some sort of transition so people can find their feet and learn to become useful and develop skills.

I have access to land, and have been looking into the concept of using biodomes to grow food - so i think ill be aiming to stock up on heirloom seeds and learn how to grow them.

With regards to anomynity - ive already blown it by having my face as my avatar :o But thanks for the advice anyway :)

[the apprentice]

Thanks. She did die from NHS treatment but not malpractice as such, just them not knowing how to heal people. But was her time to go at a good age of 92.

Im kind of hoping I can just get by with a bit of metal tbh. I can fit double glazing to a mediocre standard, and have a few other abilities - but if the economy collapes fully I may just have to resort to pimping my girlfriend out to survive.
Most people, myself included, are lazy and useless - so im hoping there is some sort of transition so people can find their feet and learn to become useful and develop skills.

I have access to land, and have been looking into the concept of using biodomes to grow food - so i think ill be aiming to stock up on heirloom seeds and learn how to grow them.

With regards to anomynity - ive already blown it by having my face as my avatar :o But thanks for the advice anyway :)

The land and bio dome project sounds really interesting indeed, we have greenhouses in the Dutchlite style but the dome is the DB's, for all round light and balanced temps.

A few tips for you, to do it the cheaper way.

Get in touch with a few window fitters for free DG units which you can make the triangle panes from, saw through the ends of the wooden frames just short of the unit on both ends and they open quite easily and part the units using a sharp stanley, once you have done a few its a doddle.

Get really freindly with your local joiners and suppliers for all the off cuts and shaken boards for next to nothing.

And freindly with your smaller local garages for the waste engine oil.

If you build the domes make them no higher than you can reach up and touch the top middle, about 8-9 feet.

Here are the heaters to heat your houses for free, if you know any plumbers you can also fit a small boiler to these stoves and run a heating line around and under the soil.

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me7.html

The glazing I used in one of my houses was 4.00mm clear polycarbonate twinwall it cuts really easy and is 9 times stronger than standard 3.00mm horticultural glass which high winds tend to trash when the glass has aged.this company will cut the sheets to size if you ask, but you can buy squares and cut the from corner to corner with a stanley, worked out at same prices as new glass.

http://www.theplasticpeople.co.uk/cut-to-size-polycarbonate-clear-twinwall-or-multiwall-p-208.html

If you can fit windows I'm sure you can build the domes no probs, the savings are welcome and the food high quality and the mind in overdrive, hand to eyes night and day is the way to go.

The new 10 by 10 house we built with all new gear cost 600, retail near on 3700.00. Domes are out of reach new unless you want to throw cash at them.

Another tip for the domes is to build a 3 foot deep cold sump/ditch below the planting boxes around the inner edges so the colder growing seasons the sumps pull the cold air down and out of the way.

One thing that is most important is the compost bin, we use Newzealand boxes, basically a box 2 by 1 by 1 meter box partitioned down the middle giving two eaqual square compartments, it has a sloping slightly sloping roof hinged.

Make the front and partition boards so they slide out of a groove made by two roofing latts nailed to the corner posts either side, makes it easier to turn the pile from time to time.

Make sure there are no gaps between the boards or the compost won't heat up enough, must heat up to between 130-170 to kill any pathogens during the cooking process, if you push a metal rod into the heap you won't he able to touch it without burning yourself this is the composting process at work.

Place a woolen type carpet square on top of the heap to keep in the heat and moisture in the pile.

To get good compost hin material call into you local scaffolders yard and ask if they have any non serviceable boards and bung them a few quid, ours cost only 35 quid to make and should last 10 years.

Go for it dom, you'll never regret it, keeps the mind active and keeps you fit.

If you need any further freeman tips give us a PM ;):)

[domathy]

The land and bio dome project sounds really interesting indeed, we have greenhouses in the Dutchlite style but the dome is the DB's, for all round light and balanced temps.

A few tips for you, to do it the cheaper way.

Get in touch with a few window fitters for free DG units which you can make the triangle panes from, saw through the ends of the wooden frames just short of the unit on both ends and they open quite easily and part the units using a sharp stanley, once you have done a few its a doddle.

Get really freindly with your local joiners and suppliers for all the off cuts and shaken boards for next to nothing.

And freindly with your smaller local garages for the waste engine oil.

If you build the domes make them no higher than you can reach up and touch the top middle, about 8-9 feet.

Here are the heaters to heat your houses for free, if you know any plumbers you can also fit a small boiler to these stoves and run a heating line around and under the soil.

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me7.html

The glazing I used in one of my houses was 4.00mm clear polycarbonate twinwall it cuts really easy and is 9 times stronger than standard 3.00mm horticultural glass which high winds tend to trash when the glass has aged.this company will cut the sheets to size if you ask, but you can buy squares and cut the from corner to corner with a stanley, worked out at same prices as new glass.

http://www.theplasticpeople.co.uk/cut-to-size-polycarbonate-clear-twinwall-or-multiwall-p-208.html

If you can fit windows I'm sure you can build the domes no probs, the savings are welcome and the food high quality and the mind in overdrive, hand to eyes night and day is the way to go.

The new 10 by 10 house we built with all new gear cost 600, retail near on 3700.00. Domes are out of reach new unless you want to throw cash at them.

Another tip for the domes is to build a 3 foot deep cold sump/ditch below the planting boxes around the inner edges so the colder growing seasons the sumps pull the cold air down and out of the way.

One thing that is most important is the compost bin, we use Newzealand boxes, basically a box 2 by 1 by 1 meter box partitioned down the middle giving two eaqual square compartments, it has a sloping slightly sloping roof hinged.

Make the front and partition boards so they slide out of a groove made by two roofing latts nailed to the corner posts either side, makes it easier to turn the pile from time to time.

Make sure there are no gaps between the boards or the compost won't heat up enough, must heat up to between 130-170 to kill any pathogens during the cooking process, if you push a metal rod into the heap you won't he able to touch it without burning yourself this is the composting process at work.

Place a woolen type carpet square on top of the heap to keep in the heat and moisture in the pile.

To get good compost hin material call into you local scaffolders yard and ask if they have any non serviceable boards and bung them a few quid, ours cost only 35 quid to make and should last 10 years.

Go for it dom, you'll never regret it, keeps the mind active and keeps you fit.

If you need any further freeman tips give us a PM ;):)

Brilliant! Thanks for all that - youve got me more focussed where this is concerned and i just need to have faith that its possible.

I may well have questions so do expect me to PM you at some point :)
And any advice will be gratefully received.

Just one question - the land i talked about is someones back garden, but its at the edge of a small city, and is not overlooked and is a detached house. Friendly/elderly neighbours either side and fields to the rear of the garden. Is this an okay setting or do i really need to be out in the sticks?
When things start getting tough I know i will be able to use this space - but not before as the household is mainly blinkered about the world, so when TSHTF i will need to hit the ground running and get it all right the first time with little practice! That said - as food prices increase, i may have enough leverage if im offering free veg for the house ;)

[the apprentice]

Brilliant! Thanks for all that - youve got me more focussed where this is concerned and i just need to have faith that its possible.

I may well have questions so do expect me to PM you at some point :)
And any advice will be gratefully received.

Just one question - the land i talked about is someones back garden, but its at the edge of a small city, and is not overlooked and is a detached house. Friendly/elderly neighbours either side and fields to the rear of the garden. Is this an okay setting or do i really need to be out in the sticks?
When things start getting tough I know i will be able to use this space - but not before as the household is mainly blinkered about the world, so when TSHTF i will need to hit the ground running and get it all right the first time with little practice! That said - as food prices increase, i may have enough leverage if im offering free veg for the house ;)

I used to think overtime about what if, but there is no point really what will happen will out, thing is to do whatever you can now and worry later, things haven't even started yet so any savings you can accumulate will give you respite and the need for less money, that's what we do it for, savings, if you have a couple hundred square meters 10 x 10 you can easily save a few hundred quid a year and a greenhouse the same again.

If you can get a small field adjacent for the houses even better, if you contact a few local landowners you can get an acre for a couple of hundred quid a year, maybe those older neighbours either side might like the idea.

In your first year you will get good results due to the land being laid barren and using just compost you can go 20 years before having to replenish with well rotted manures etc.

Once you get going collecting the gear to do it, this spurred me onwards.

Buy some seeds and drop the ones your going to plant in a saucer of water any that float bin they wont grow and plant the ones that sink only get them going now in half soil half compost mix, place trays inside a plastic bag on top of the gas fire for bottom heat to get the best germination going once they have come through start moving them into the cooler window sill and then a colder area before hardening off outside in a box with a DG unit on top, a simple cheap production line.

By that time you will be dug and after the last frosts you can start planting out, plant slightly tighter than normal and you will keep the weeds down as the vedge covers any bare soil, try and get full cover, less weeding.

Every weed you pull egg shells the lot goes into compost bin but no dairy, meat or fruit they attract rodents and hamper the bacterial breakdown.

Plant in weeks apart in the same tray 10-10-10 so you have a staggered supply of vedgies.

Buy some seed spuds now and get them eyeing/chitting up spread out in a cardboard box in a dry dark cupboard, so you have good length eyes before you put them in, I will run you through the whole process.

The only thing I would secure is the promise of the land for a year and if the people won't nick your gear, you obviously know them well, family perhaps?

[oiram]

. http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg7/brockelever/allthegold.jpghttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg7/brockelever/goldtonne-1.jpghttp://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg7/brockelever/Blue_Milk_Crate.jpg
http://www.gold-speculator.com/jim-sinclair/30323-how-money-works.html (http://www.gold-speculator.com/jim-sinclair/30323-how-money-works.html)
One metrical tonne of Gold

At the end of 2001, it is estimated that all the gold ever mined amounts to about 145,000 tonnes.
http://money.howstuffworks.com/question213.htm (http://money.howstuffworks.com/question213.htm)


To give you a logical idea:
So if you would give every person on earth a equal piece would mean

193,000 ton x 1000000 = 193,000,000,000 grams

193,000,000,000 / 7,000,000,000 = 27.57 grams per person on earth!

1 gram = 0.0352739619 ounces x 27.57 = 0.97 per person on earth!

Each person would have a value of ~1,600 Dollars

The entire world would be wroth in Gold value 11,200,000,000,000 = ~ 11 trillion Dollars

How much could you buy with this amount?

Can you see the reality & entire fraud from this example???

Remember this Bull crap??
Lord James of Blackheath - 15 Trillion dollars and 750 thousand metric tonnes (750,000 ton?????? )of gold 16th Feb 2012 - YouTube

Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLrHOgy0tRo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLrHOgy0tRo)

Even a blind man should sees clearly what the Hell they playing??? They all trying to sell you for total fools!

And these overpaid university trained monkey brains running your life's & can not even calculate 1 + 1 = 2
This are your leaders you trust & vote into power over and over .... Smart is it not??From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A gold reserve is the gold held by a central bank or nation intended as a store of value and as a guarantee to redeem promises to pay depositors, note holders (e.g., paper money), or trading peers, or to secure a currency.

At the end of 2004, central banks and investment funds held 19% of all above-ground gold as bank reserve assets.[1]

It has been estimated that all the gold mined by the end of 2009 totaled 165,000 tonnes.[2] At a price of US$1900/oz., reached in September 2011, one ton of gold has a value of approximately US$60.8 million. The total value of all gold ever mined would exceed US$9.2 trillion at that valuation.[note 1]
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Gold_reserve (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Gold_reserve)


Look at the Charts in the image to see the entire fraud!

http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/magcisystem1.gif

[icke_is_right]

If you could explain your theories in a few lines, that would help. I don't know what you're trying to explain. The theories on this thread are very simple:

-Lot's of fiat loosing value
-No one knows where the gold is
-If the gold is there, it has multiple claims on it
-Gold prices are suppressed by the govt to keep people away from real money.
-Gold has been sold into the market to suppress prices
-People are scammed into paper gold schemes
-Only when enough people take physical gold, will the scam unfold.

[the apprentice]

If you could explain your theories in a few lines, that would help. I don't know what you're trying to explain. The theories on this thread are very simple:

-Lot's of fiat loosing value
-No one knows where the gold is
-If the gold is there, it has multiple claims on it
-Gold prices are suppressed by the govt to keep people away from real money.
-Gold has been sold into the market to suppress prices
-People are scammed into paper gold schemes
-Only when enough people take physical gold, will the scam unfold.

One of the visible signs that there is, is they are now recycling gold and silver like there is no tomorrow at the Ramsdens and from dissgaurded electronics.

There is obviously more gold in circulation than there is in the banks, so the people are already in control but don't know it yet.

If you take all the people throughout the planet who wears a item/s of jewelry a gold filling, something plated with it how much would that ammount to, a tidy sum I bet.

Of the actual gold in vaults I bet it's not really gold that is in there and what is left of it will be litterally "under water" at the moment, somewhere where nobody will be able to look for it, thus it doesn't need gaurding.

The scam is about to be seen for what it is, it's all just bits of paper flying away from you.

What are they also doing right now, de-monetising money by taking ever scrap of copper, zinc, etc out of it, they are preparing to get rid of it and to try and hide where the real wealth lies by turning it into electrical impulses.

Give Ramsdens a wide birth and keep the gold in circulation, because we have more than them period.

The most powerful item and valueable commodity upon the planet is us or our labour, all we need to do is place this to where it would be of most use/benefit to us.

If we don't do this we simply continue to live within the lie, look outside the box or tricks and to freedom.

Put your shouldrs to your own wheels and not walking upon someone elses childerick as we are right now.

SKILL UP FREE YOURSELVES.

[icke_is_right]

One of the visible signs that there is, is they are now recycling gold and silver like there is no tomorrow at the Ramsdens and from dissgaurded electronics.

There is obviously more gold in circulation than there is in the banks, so the people are already in control but don't know it yet.

If you take all the people throughout the planet who wears a item/s of jewelry a gold filling, something plated with it how much would that ammount to, a tidy sum I bet.

Of the actual gold in vaults I bet it's not really gold that is in there and what is left of it will be litterally "under water" at the moment, somewhere where nobody will be able to look for it, thus it doesn't need gaurding.

The scam is about to be seen for what it is, it's all just bits of paper flying away from you.

What are they also doing right now, de-monetising money by taking ever scrap of copper, zinc, etc out of it, they are preparing to get rid of it and to try and hide where the real wealth lies by turning it into electrical impulses.

Give Ramsdens a wide birth and keep the gold in circulation, because we have more than them period.

The most powerful item and valueable commodity upon the planet is us or our labour, all we need to do is place this to where it would be of most use/benefit to us.

If we don't do this we simply continue to live within the lie, look outside the box or tricks and to freedom.

Put your shouldrs to your own wheels and not walking upon someone elses childerick as we are right now.

SKILL UP FREE YOURSELVES.

I'm learning bushcraft at the moment and thoroughly enjoying it. I am also learning all the plants and trees that I can. I feel that setting out on the correct road is THE most important thing. It is not just a matter of stabbing in the dark. So:

Stage 1: Find what you love and then do it.

Stage 2: Secondly, rather than just learning skills, it is important to investigate and practice what we do with our minds. Anyone trying to set out to learn more skills I would order to read the book: 'Think and Grow Rich'. This is not about being rich, it is about being successful in what you start out to do by making sure that what you do is 'of service' and doesn't harm others, in fact, of benefit to others and hence yourself. In it you will learn the importance of the way we think, which covers the following.

1. Desire
2. Faith
3. Auto-suggestion
4. Specialized Knowledge
5. Imagination
6. Organized Planning
7. Decision
8. Persistence
9. The Master Mind
10. The Mystery of Sex Transmutation
11. The Subconscious Mind
12. The Brain
13. The Sixth Sense

It also covers the problem that most people are self limiting by the scope of their thought and organisation. It is about unleashing true potential.

Being on the right road and finding what we are good at would make this world a whole lot better. For this reason, this would be the first stage to go through before deciding what skills would be best to learn.

[the apprentice]

I'm learning bushcraft at the moment and thoroughly enjoying it. I am also learning all the plants and trees that I can. I feel that setting out on the correct road is THE most important thing. It is not just a matter of stabbing in the dark. So:

Stage 1: Find what you love and then do it.

Stage 2: Secondly, rather than just learning skills, it is important to investigate and practice what we do with our minds. Anyone trying to set out to learn more skills I would order to read the book: 'Think and Grow Rich'. This is not about being rich, it is about being successful in what you start out to do by making sure that what you do is 'of service' and doesn't harm others, in fact, of benefit to others and hence yourself. In it you will learn the importance of the way we think, which covers the following.

1. Desire
2. Faith
3. Auto-suggestion
4. Specialized Knowledge
5. Imagination
6. Organized Planning
7. Decision
8. Persistence
9. The Master Mind
10. The Mystery of Sex Transmutation
11. The Subconscious Mind
12. The Brain
13. The Sixth Sense

It also covers the problem that most people are self limiting by the scope of their thought and organisation. It is about unleashing true potential.

Being on the right road and finding what we are good at would make this world a whole lot better. For this reason, this would be the first stage to go through before deciding what skills would be best to learn.

I would say it in a way I'm always learning and willing to encourage the embetterment of the whole of which we all a part of, by sharing the knowledge freely.

I agree with everything your saying but partly the other way around and often use the term, Hand To Eye Coordination, which is 2% watching or reading and 8% doing, however seeing it been done by another master or sometimes called a watcher is believing, much better than reading a book, it enables one to learn faster and get it right with less mistakes, not that mistakes are detrimental, because your next attempt should be better as they saying goes.

My Great Grandfather Tyson used to say I'm told, do what ever your most happy doing and get good at it before moving onwards to something else, think in terms of five different pass times and ten years duration and you should come out with at least three in the bag.

Society is being de-skilled, There's that word again' at an alarming rate so quickly that if the school leavers of today don't communicate with us oldish farts, there will not be any future generations of watchers left and like the Chealse Penshioners they will be forgotten and the new paradigm could well be reading about what was and be demo-ing in a live window within a museum if there are any such like zoo's left, heh.

Seek out the watchers of Wo/Men.

[icke_is_right]

I would say it in a way I'm always learning and willing to encourage the embetterment of the whole of which we all a part of, by sharing the knowledge freely.

I agree with everything your saying but partly the other way around and often use the term, Hand To Eye Coordination, which is 2% watching or reading and 8% doing, however seeing it been done by another master or sometimes called a watcher is believing, much better than reading a book, it enables one to learn faster and get it right with less mistakes, not that mistakes are detrimental, because your next attempt should be better as they saying goes.

My Great Grandfather Tyson used to say I'm told, do what ever your most happy doing and get good at it before moving onwards to something else, think in terms of five different pass times and ten years duration and you should come out with at least three in the bag.

Society is being de-skilled, There's that word again' at an alarming rate so quickly that if the school leavers of today don't communicate with us oldish farts, there will not be any future generations of watchers left and like the Chealse Penshioners they will be forgotten and the new paradigm could well be reading about what was and be demo-ing in a live window within a museum if there are any such like zoo's left, heh.

Seek out the watchers of Wo/Men.

Yes, I agree with your message too. I was sickened by the attitude on this website and over the years, in other places, that people hoard information. I've always felt very hurt by society that people appear to be so selfish and the UK culture breeds this sort of system with relish. Just the house price agenda crew, it's sickening. For this reason, I made and effort to give what I know away more. I do not want others to go through the hard and painful learning process, unecessarily, if possible.

Many people think the metals are sick and in a way I agree, especially with the wrong attitude towards them. None of us here think that the money system is good, or that a money system of any kind, with 'the watchers' in control, is a good thing. Gold and silver are just life jackets in an unfair world, meanwhile the final destination, is to get on dry land, not sit in the water for eternity. However, my message is clear and simple and repetitive. This is what's necessary. So is yours. I also like the idea of taking their precious things away from them a bit. This is a bit 'like them' but we can't be perfect.

I'm making loads of mistakes at the moment learning bushcraft. Creating fire by friction took 5 attempts on different days! However, I enjoy the process and I know with a set goal, I'm willing to do what it takes, as I know persistence will pay off.

I see awakening as something more simple now. What I mean is, I want to do everything by hand with the minimum of tools and in the quiet. I want to be as un-dependant (if that's a word lol) on society and 'produced goods' as possible. I think so many hate our slavery. The slimplest things, create a mass of pleasure in me, for me, a simple fire is better than any electronic entertainment.

OK, you're a master welder and silversmith but what do you teach generally?

[blackjimmy]

I'm making loads of mistakes at the moment learning bushcraft. Creating fire by friction took 5 attempts on different days! However, I enjoy the process and I know with a set goal, I'm willing to do what it takes, as I know persistence will pay off.

I also have an interest in bushcraft IIR, although I haven't done any for some time. There is a beautiful simplicity to it, and also it seems to be hardwired into us.. it is hard to not imagine your distant ancestors when you're practicing it. I hope to move closer to some real wilderness at some point in my life. Are you hand-drilling or bow-drilling? If you're hand-drilling you should check out a video called 'Bushcraft Floating Hand Drill' on youtube, a very effective technique that I had some success with. The instructor makes it look effortless, and so much more elegant than a bow-drill..

[icke_is_right]

I also have an interest in bushcraft IIR, although I haven't done any for some time. There is a beautiful simplicity to it, and also it seems to be hardwired into us.. it is hard to not imagine your distant ancestors when you're practicing it. I hope to move closer to some real wilderness at some point in my life. Are you hand-drilling or bow-drilling? If you're hand-drilling you should check out a video called 'Bushcraft Floating Hand Drill' on youtube, a very effective technique that I had some success with. The instructor makes it look effortless, and so much more elegant than a bow-drill..

What you say about it being hardwired into us, I was rather shocked by, since I feel exactly the same but hadn't got the right words to describe it. The hypnosis of fire, could be described this way for me. I used the bowdrill and have yet to achieve handrilling. I've found that vid thanks, yes he makes it look rather easy but I can envisage hours of fun trying to perfect that technique!

[the apprentice]

Yes, I agree with your message too. I was sickened by the attitude on this website and over the years, in other places, that people hoard information. I've always felt very hurt by society that people appear to be so selfish and the UK culture breeds this sort of system with relish. Just the house price agenda crew, it's sickening. For this reason, I made and effort to give what I know away more. I do not want others to go through the hard and painful learning process, unecessarily, if possible.

Many people think the metals are sick and in a way I agree, especially with the wrong attitude towards them. None of us here think that the money system is good, or that a money system of any kind, with 'the watchers' in control, is a good thing. Gold and silver are just life jackets in an unfair world, meanwhile the final destination, is to get on dry land, not sit in the water for eternity. However, my message is clear and simple and repetitive. This is what's necessary. So is yours. I also like the idea of taking their precious things away from them a bit. This is a bit 'like them' but we can't be perfect.

I'm making loads of mistakes at the moment learning bushcraft. Creating fire by friction took 5 attempts on different days! However, I enjoy the process and I know with a set goal, I'm willing to do what it takes, as I know persistence will pay off.

I see awakening as something more simple now. What I mean is, I want to do everything by hand with the minimum of tools and in the quiet. I want to be as un-dependant (if that's a word lol) on society and 'produced goods' as possible. I think so many hate our slavery. The slimplest things, create a mass of pleasure in me, for me, a simple fire is better than any electronic entertainment.

OK, you're a master welder and silversmith but what do you teach generally?

I teach anything within my own knowledge, wooden engineering, shoe making, wheelwrighting, longbow making, advanced first aid and minor surgery, green forging, wild medicines.

If your going into the medicinal arena the book, Cullpeppers Complete Herbal is essential, there are many beneficial analgesics in the wild so you need to know what your doing.

if your making fire there are easier ways like the ancient fire piston and charr cloth/flint and steel, which all fit in your pockets and are very reliable.

To make my charr cloth I use a pellet tin with neatly cut old cotton bed sheets packed neatly into the tin with a 3.00mm hole in the middle, place tin next to a camp fire to cook the contents until the smoke stops coming out, this one tin full will last you many months in the field if kept dry, a screw on lid and beeswax are good for keeping things sealed from the weather.

King Alfred cakes or camp balls found growing on ash trees as a black boil like fungus are another free fuel which once lit with flint and steel will smolder away for hours in a leather draw cord purse.

See Avatar.

For making a bow drill I use everything from the field, branch of willow and nettle twist cord all free, same hemp string will make a good bowstring, bow made from holly or elm work well, an inch and a half dia 6' 6" long branch evenly tapered using split slate cutting tools for shaving down to about half inch at the ends will give you 50lbs pull at 30 inch draw, arrows from copiced hazel, which will pierce a bullet proof vest in tests we did at our archery club.

Tools like a good axe and knife are important but everything can be made without metal but it takes a tad longer.

Bramble is good for collecting blind run bunnies, just sellect a decent branch and wind it into the rabbits fur and pull it out, or find the nest and catch the young just before they emerge and weened and they can be reared domestically but it's not easy, because once they are aware they tend not to eat and die.

Traps are the way to go, birds, fish and squirel are all easily made with a suitable axe, everything needed is in the wild.

Rabbit guts in a hemp sack with slits is great for catching eals, on good days you can catch so many items of food with traps and pitfalls to last you many days.

The main thing is gaining enough food to take you above the calorie cut off and the mimimum to keep you above the 12 day rule, once you fall below that limit you will only last that long in a full blown crisis.

Basically 500 plus calories and 5 litres of water per day with shelter, study famine and disaster area figures for more information, record body weight losses to see the patterns emerging.

The human body is very poorly designed compared to other wild animals, we cannot carry internally much food or water that will last a day, in a panic stations you need to drink as much water as possible and carry the food and eat it later once out of trouble, do it the other way around to see what happens when your trying to leg it, you want as much blood going to your legs and not you abdominals which requires a huge blood supply to digest the food properly.

A great tool to pop in your first aid kit is super glue, closes minor wounds nice and tight.

[griswald]

Germany to Review Bundesbank Gold Reserves in Frankfurt, Paris, London and Federal Reserve Bank of New York

German lawmakers are to review Bundesbank controls of and management of Germany’s gold reserves. Parliament’s Budget Committee will assess how the central bank manages its inventory of Germany’s gold bullion bars that are believed to be stored in Frankfurt, Paris, London and the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, according to German newspaper Bild.

The German Federal Audit Office has criticised the Bundesbank’s lax auditing and inventory controls regarding Germany’s sizeable gold reserves – 3,396.3 tonnes of gold or some 73.7% of Germany’s national foreign exchange reserves.

The concern is that were the eurozone to collapse, Bundesbank losses could be half a trillion euros - more than one-and-a-half times the size of the Germany's annual budget.

Germany and other central banks may follow in Hugo Chavez’s footsteps and repatriate their gold to Germany so as to have direct possession of and ownership of their gold reserves in order to be better prepared for a systemic or monetary crisis.

apprentice,

I didn,t know you were into archery. I have a number of bows too, as I used to be involved in traditional field archery.
Recurve bow,
American Flat bow,
One piece Hunting bow made by Sherwood Forest Archery.........and you want to be Little John to draw it:)

griswald

[the apprentice]

apprentice,

I didn,t know you were into archery. I have a number of bows too, as I used to be involved in traditional field archery.
Recurve bow,
American Flat bow,
One piece Hunting bow made by Sherwood Forest Archery.........and you want to be Little John to draw it:)

griswald

Yes I have made many longbows over the years especially when the kids were growing up and handing each one down as the boys outgrew them, my happy weight is about 80 ish.

I have a PSE recurve compound at the moment, which makes short work of any car door with the correct arrows, the telescopic sight is very accurate and makes popping the dot at a 100 quite easy.

I have tried one of those Forester bows quite a nice tool.

Most impressive bow I ever tried was a Persian copy made by a Spanish guy, no wonder they were a force to be reconed with, very powerfull indeed and the range.

When your making self yew bows the trick is to get the Buchannan's dip correct, there are some excellent Muirs of Edinburgh around to copy if you can find them.

One guy in the club brought a 100 pounder LB in one day your not safe behind your flack jacket with one of these at 50 yards.

[icke_is_right]

London Trader - 40+ Tons of Physical Gold Acquired Yesterday



http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2012/3/7_London_Trader_-_40%2B_Tons_of_Physical_Gold_Acquired_Yesterday.ht ml

Link corrected

[the apprentice]

London Trader - 40+ Tons of Physical Gold Acquired Yesterday


http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2012/3/7_Lo
_Trader_-_40%2B_Tons_of_Physical_Gold_Acquired_Yesterday.ht ml

Link broken.

[858672]

Link broken.

Click (http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2012/3/7_London_Trader_-_40+_Tons_of_Physical_Gold_Acquired_Yesterday.html )

[the apprentice]

Click (http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2012/3/7_London_Trader_-_40+_Tons_of_Physical_Gold_Acquired_Yesterday.html )

Tops, somethings a coming.

[griswald]

Yes I have made many longbows over the years especially when the kids were growing up and handing each one down as the boys outgrew them, my happy weight is about 80 ish.

I have a PSE recurve compound at the moment, which makes short work of any car door with the correct arrows, the telescopic sight is very accurate and makes popping the dot at a 100 quite easy.

I have tried one of those Forester bows quite a nice tool.

Most impressive bow I ever tried was a Persian copy made by a Spanish guy, no wonder they were a force to be reconed with, very powerfull indeed and the range.

When your making self yew bows the trick is to get the Buchannan's dip correct, there are some excellent Muirs of Edinburgh around to copy if you can find them.

One guy in the club brought a 100 pounder LB in one day your not safe behind your flack jacket with one of these at 50 yards.

Not one of those tarts handbags of a bow,;) the real handmade Marksman Archery Products,

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/archery

Made there, special order.:cool:

gris...

[the apprentice]

Not one of those tarts handbags of a bow,;) the real handmade Marksman Archery Products,

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/archery

Made there, special order.:cool:

gris...

Are they still making stuff today?

[griswald]

Are they still making stuff today?

They were Goldclass in their day;)

So as in all things of quality, they have probably closed them up, and substituted them with inferior quality stuff

griswald

[the apprentice]

They were Goldclass in their day;)

So as in all things of quality, they have probably closed them up, and substituted them with inferior quality stuff

griswald

That's the way the golden rule plays out, I remember a guy at the club had a Korean copy identical at a fifth of the price.

One thing that cannot be replicated, gold or was that plated :D

[rainbowdear]

I'm holding a lot of the above, so firstly if this isn't the best idea I suffer. I don't want to ram this down anyone's throat but this ties into 'what can I do?'. Finance is something I've been into since 1999. There will be other things to face along the way and this isn't the ultimate solution but I see this mainly as opting out of their financial system. It's a small thing that you can do, since a major part of this conspiracy involves paper money.

If all went well and all people on this site held a bit of gold or silver, after the 'revaluation' of money, people here would be better off and hence have more clout in the matrix world. I see more benefit if benefits and knowledge are spread to all.

So, if you're interested in what to do buy this book

Amazon.com: Rich Dad's Advisors: Guide to Investing In Gold and Silver: Protect Your Financial Future (9780446510998): Michael Maloney: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Rich-Dads-Advisors-Investing-Financial/dp/0446510998/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226739735&sr=1-1)

Gold/Silver price is manipulated so that today's 'price' is nothing like what it is worth. This is complicated but in the end, if you can afford a few silver bullion coins, you will probably see the value of them increase massively over the coming years.

In the end, paper money isn't real. I'm converting more paper to bullion until things stop being such good value.

In the end very few people will heed buying bullion and this is why I think that they will be much poorer (in matrix terms). I'm sorry about this. I probably won't be contributing much to feeback in this thread, everything you need to know is in the book listed and I'll be busy acquiring more physical gold and silver.

A good forum on bullion...

http://www.kitco.com/

www.gata.org for general info surrounding gold scam by Fed.

Good Luck.

i know nothing about finance however i have heard that if the state keeps a record of who owns what amount of gold. Apparently in the event of it, the State requiring it, they could actually confiscate it from private owners.
What do you say to this?
Are diamonds a good investment or not?

[the apprentice]

The elite are creating the enviornments that gets the majority to part with their gold and also open the shops to collect it, basically recycling at robbery rates, but returning to the 33 model is very possible.
This has been carried out many times in the past and the finds the burried results of such policies of the past.

In such times your better off getting the skills using the stuff so after the storm is all over you can use those skills to regain the yellow peril again.

Swings and roundabouts, if one flies with the crows sooner or later your going to get shot with the crows.

[icke_is_right]

i know nothing about finance however i have heard that if the state keeps a record of who owns what amount of gold. Apparently in the event of it, the State requiring it, they could actually confiscate it from private owners.
What do you say to this?
Are diamonds a good investment or not?

No, knowing about conspiracy, you now know a shitload about finance and that most of it is a scam.

Diamonds are hoarded by De Beers and hence prices are made artificially high. Diamonds are not a good investment, in my opinion.

Gold and Silver prices are manipulated downward via paper markets.

99% gold and silver have been confiscated over the last few hundred years. No one knows exactly how much there is or where it is. Most people today, own paper promises in metal, unbacked by the real thing. Hence I push the idea of physical gold and silver in your own possession.

Have you got any gold? If so, please hand it over and I'll give you a some electronic money for it. How's that sound? You spent it? OK, bye then.

[the apprentice]

No, knowing about conspiracy, you now know a shitload about finance and that most of it is a scam.

Diamonds are hoarded by De Beers and hence prices are made artificially high. Diamonds are not a good investment, in my opinion.

Gold and Silver prices are manipulated downward via paper markets.

99% gold and silver have been confiscated over the last few hundred years. No one knows exactly how much there is or where it is. Most people today, own paper promises in metal, unbacked by the real thing. Hence I push the idea of physical gold and silver in your own possession.

Have you got any gold? If so, please hand it over and I'll give you a some electronic money for it. How's that sound? You spent it? OK, bye then.

Bring a shiny nugget here and I will make you a pair of shoes fit for a king, I will then pop it in my bank at zero percent interest, I'm sure she will get the message after reading this.

However,

With the skills I can make anyone a pair of shoes for getting the raw materials for making more shoe, how is the person who is buying the shoes, going to get the gold to buy those shoes, if they have no real skills to get the real commodities in a system without paper fiat.

I have the answer waiting if anybody can't answer it.

[mace]

Bring a shiny nugget here and I will make you a pair of shoes fit for a king, I will then pop it in my bank at zero percent interest, I'm sure she will get the message after reading this.

If the 'nugget' you refer to is gold, then take note:

Gold might not accrue interest in a bank account or safe, but it accrues value. And if you want to release this value, then sell it. This will give you your 'interest'.

Over the course of 2011 the value rose by 21.8% (Avg price in Jan 11 = $1356: Avg price in Dec 11 = $1652)

You find me a bank that pays 21.8% interest over a 12 month period.

In fact, you find me a bank that pays anything near double digits.


However, if I have misread your original post and you don't mean gold when you say 'nugget', then you can ignore that ;)

But still, it's good for everyone to see.

[griswald]

Bring a shiny nugget here and I will make you a pair of shoes fit for a king, I will then pop it in my bank at zero percent interest, I'm sure she will get the message after reading this.

However,

With the skills I can make anyone a pair of shoes for getting the raw materials for making more shoe, how is the person who is buying the shoes, going to get the gold to buy those shoes, if they have no real skills to get the real commodities in a system without paper fiat.

I have the answer waiting if anybody can't answer it.

They will be going around barefooted, unless they learn the skills, or unless they can steal gold.:)

griswald

[smoke n mirrors]

i know nothing about finance however i have heard that if the state keeps a record of who owns what amount of gold. Apparently in the event of it, the State requiring it, they could actually confiscate it from private owners.
What do you say to this?
Are diamonds a good investment or not?

Don't keep it in a bank or anywhere where you don't have open unhindered and private access.

In the past under such measures safety deposit boxes etc. can't be accessed with out the presence of a government official.

Go and buy some of these Caps (http://www.drainageonline.co.uk/110mm-Drainage-Pipe-and-Fittings/110mm-Drain-Access-Cap.htm) and a length of this 110mm pipe (http://www.drainageonline.co.uk/110mm-Drainage-Pipe-and-Fittings/110mm-Drainage-Pipe.htm)

http://www.drainageonline.co.uk/images/products/110mm_Drain_Access_Cap.jpg

and finally get one of these post hole borer (http://www.thurrocktoolhire.co.uk/hero.asp?uid=e289e2f27f553f6235765c0448e58397&uidn=56&id=72&prodid=179&catid=7)

http://www.thurrocktoolhire.co.uk/images/products/G11501.jpg

Then pick several suitable locations. :)

EDIT: Make sure the top of your canister is at least two feet below the surface.
.

[icke_is_right]

Stock piling shoes now! They make shoes from car tyres here, for roofers. My friend's got a pair.

Quite honestly, this thread is about protecting what you've got. It gives answers to moving a lump sump/savings quickly, to the right place. This doesn't take long. As I've said many times, I thought that aquiring skills would be common sense. If not, please make a thread on:

How to
Where to
When to
Cost of

acquiring skills. It's a huge subject and I wouldn't know how to go about putting it into a thread. I'd start a thread on something like 'Bowmaking', with an index of the relevant points, then everyone can access info more easily.

If you sign up to apprenticeships, the route is quite horrendous and not attractive to older people.

You still can use money and they will be drawing this saga out for a while longer.

Sorry but when you realise the extent of what's coming and you've got £150,000+ to do something with, this will generally be a priority. I also hear from people how get 'inheritance' out of the blue and want to protect it, whilst they decide what to do. Maybe you know what you'd do but it's far more easy to flitter it away than keep it over the years.



London Trader - Massive Physical Silver Orders Filled Near $33

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2012/3/8_London_Trader_-_Massive_Physical_Silver_Orders_Filled_Near_%2433. html

[sephera]

Stock piling shoes now! They make shoes from car tyres here, for roofers. My friend's got a pair.

Quite honestly, this thread is about protecting what you've got. It gives answers to moving a lump sump/savings quickly, to the right place. This doesn't take long. As I've said many times, I thought that aquiring skills would be common sense. If not, please make a thread on:

How to
Where to
When to
Cost of

acquiring skills. It's a huge subject and I wouldn't know how to go about putting it into a thread. I'd start a thread on something like 'Bowmaking', with an index of the relevant points, then everyone can access info more easily.

If you sign up to apprenticeships, the route is quite horrendous and not attractive to older people.

You still can use money and they will be drawing this saga out for a while longer.

Sorry but when you realise the extent of what's coming and you've got £150,000+ to do something with, this will generally be a priority. I also hear from people how get 'inheritance' out of the blue and want to protect it, whilst they decide what to do. Maybe you know what you'd do but it's far more easy to flitter it away than keep it over the years.



London Trader - Massive Physical Silver Orders Filled Near $33

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2012/3/8_London_Trader_-_Massive_Physical_Silver_Orders_Filled_Near_%2433. html

I don't know what you mean? Acquiring skills.

[kingskins]

Dear Icke is right,

Thanks so much for this thread, from my last question i know half gold/half silver i have roughly 10 k, but now i am wondering if it should be coins or bars, i am not too fussed as i will be putting them aside for a rainy day (once i've had a little magpie at it:eek:) I should order tomorrow all things being well.

love and peace to you all

KS

[icke_is_right]

Dear Icke is right,

Thanks so much for this thread, from my last question i know half gold/half silver i have roughly 10 k, but now i am wondering if it should be coins or bars, i am not too fussed as i will be putting them aside for a rainy day (once i've had a little magpie at it:eek:) I should order tomorrow all things being well.

love and peace to you all

KS

For gold a bigger bar has a better buy back price, ie the price between the price that you pay and the price that you sell back, is less, eg 250grm bar.

http://www.coininvestdirect.com/de/gold_bullion/?change=1&currate=pound_rate

For the amount that you'd have to make to be liable to Capital Gains Tax probably isn't worth worrying about with this amount, for now. You might find smaller UK coins, easier to sell privately. These are CGT free later when you sell and may become very sought after when more people click onto this.

With silver, I'd go with the smallest coins that you can get for the best value of money. When silver does rocket, smaller units will be easier to dispose of privately. I've got a lot of Austrian Philhamonicas 1oz. I think that you can get these couriered from Germany and pay 7% VAT instead of 20%. That's a £650 gross saving on £5k. You could also drive to Germany if couriering didn't work out and visit a dealer. (I'll direct you to a very good dealer in Berlin, if necessary). For this sort of money, it's actually worth it, unless you're earning so much, it doesn't matter. No one's fessed up and said that the've smuggled tax free from the Channel islands yet. Lol.....

Have a think, come back and ask, rather than be unhappy with your purchase, later. Cheers.

[icke_is_right]

I don't know what you mean? Acquiring skills.

Lot's of concern in the UK about the whole country being totally deskilled of the crafts, over the last many decades. It's very hard to find anyone who can do quality work. The UK imports everything and there is concern that there will be a shortage of essential goods. Alot of posts saying, get skilled up rather than rely on gold/silver. That was my reply.

[geewhizz]

For gold a bigger bar has a better buy back price, ie the price between the price that you pay and the price that you sell back, is less, eg 250grm bar.

http://www.coininvestdirect.com/de/gold_bullion/?change=1&currate=pound_rate

For the amount that you'd have to make to be liable to Capital Gains Tax probably isn't worth worrying about with this amount, for now. You might find smaller UK coins, easier to sell privately. These are CGT free later when you sell and may become very sought after when more people click onto this.

With silver, I'd go with the smallest coins that you can get for the best value of money. When silver does rocket, smaller units will be easier to dispose of privately. I've got a lot of Austrian Philhamonicas 1oz. I think that you can get these couriered from Germany and pay 7% VAT instead of 20%. That's a £650 gross saving on £5k. You could also drive to Germany if couriering didn't work out and visit a dealer. (I'll direct you to a very good dealer in Berlin, if necessary). For this sort of money, it's actually worth it, unless you're earning so much, it doesn't matter. No one's fessed up and said that the've smuggled tax free from the Channel islands yet. Lol.....

Have a think, come back and ask, rather than be unhappy with your purchase, later. Cheers.

Lol, as fuel prices hit record highs, you seriously think driving to Germany will save you money???
A courier from Germany?? Get real please. The truth is that you cannot get a bargain on silver and to make profit you have to be very lucky or hold on to it until you're old and grey.

Gold is the best investment in the UK speaking from the bleeding obvious and experience.

[blackjimmy]

Lol, as fuel prices hit record highs, you seriously think driving to Germany will save you money???
A courier from Germany?? Get real please. The truth is that you cannot get a bargain on silver and to make profit you have to be very lucky or hold on to it until you're old and grey.

Gold is the best investment in the UK speaking from the bleeding obvious and experience.

It depends on how much you buy at a time, but you surely can save a lot of £££ either flying to germany or having it couriered.. I know because I have done it, following the example of several others on here. Plus I think I would probably class the current price of silver a bargain, VAT or not!

[blackjimmy]

i know nothing about finance however i have heard that if the state keeps a record of who owns what amount of gold. Apparently in the event of it, the State requiring it, they could actually confiscate it from private owners.
What do you say to this?
Are diamonds a good investment or not?

No one can tell you 100% that 'they' will definitely not confiscate precious metals. I think it is unlikely. It's interesting to note that when they confiscated gold in the US, very few people turned theirs in (gresham's law) and it seems that basically no-one was ever prosecuted for not doing so.

You cannot get 100% security in anything you own, but I think the threat of confiscation is a VERY minor negative against the long list of positives in the favour of the security of gold and silver. If 'they' wanted they could confiscate all of the numbers in your bank account with the click of a mouse.. they don't even have to send a car to your house! There's a small chance that you could lose it, but there's a guaranteed 'chance' that they will steal a percentage of your wealth if you leave it in currency.

[the apprentice]

Most of the answers people seek are in several of the threads here from active and sensible minds.

The skills are things that we could all easily go looking for as I did, getting them is just hard work if one wants it to be.

Of course there is a huge spectrum and many people like different subjects and hobbies, nearly everyone has a
hobby but could that passtime be adapted to save you needing the money?.

Burying gold and forgetting where one burried it at a time of so called national secirity and special stealing or drawing licence time, normally lands one in jail for ten years as was the 33 model.

Burrying gold at two feet down would be of no use, my metal detector will discriminate for gold down to six feet, best to hide your stash high above ground and out of reach of dogs that can easily find newly disturbed ground.

Gris was closest in his estimation of what could happen if you have neither skills nor anything to barter with.

I have been advising for the last two years of how to go about getting the things needed for a back up whilst wasting away on the dole playing on the X- Box, the government are working their way into those avenues for you and will eventually stop helping you, see Greece and the policies of old to see what is coming again.

What I said earlier about how would someone with gold be able to make a living outside the current paradigm to be able to buy any more gold without the fiats of today.

The answer is you won't be able to.

My shoe model is en-route to a life times supply where I don't have to concentrate my energies in that direction till pop goes my weasle.

Some figures and food for though.

The raw materials to make a bespoke pair of oxfords and a propper pair of repairable boots which if looked after will last you at least five years costs about 65 to 70 quid for the materials for both.
To buy them new would easily cost around 500 quid for really good quality or half that for poor quality that don't fit properly and falls to bits, make your feet sweat with the GoreTex con because they don't breath properly, and don't keep your feet warm like trainers.
When the soles are shot the uppers can be cut off and used to make a pair of clogs from a tree branch I kid you not, clogs are one of the most comfortable and durable items of footwear you can have on your feet, cost for doing this, zero.

Footwear made from a tire first needs the skills to make them, bit a word of warning the long term effect of wearing such things is cold feet and absorbsion into your blood stream from the deadly chemicals within the compounds used in making them, feet are one of the fastest ways from outside your body to the soul, try crushed garlic paste in your socks and see how long it takes before you can smell it on your breath.

I'm not kidding when I say skill up and grasp anything that will help one ease their way through the famine to come, lest you want to risk stealing as Gris says and risk the wrath of those you steal from, ones longevity could be cut short if you tried to nick say one of our Mercs sheep :eek:

Joking aside, Offers of a skill or passtime like I have offered are pretty rare but you have to go looking for them otherwise you will stay as you are and vunerable to the tiniest fluctuation in an already fragile existance on the very edge of society, if you think living on the dole is fun when an indigineous person has everything he needs for free, I know which I would choose.

Things we could show you how to do, to gain something of composure and embodiment worth for yourself.

Beekeeping the easy way from recycled timber and minimal tools, all you need is a swarm and somewhere to put the box.

Community Gardening and sharing, how to make your own greenhouse from recycled materials.

Knitting from free materials, by unpicking older jumpers instead of giving them away and turn them into gloves, socks, hats and a myriad of different things that can last you a life time, I still have all my woolen hats made from tarry woo fleece scraps from 25 years ago spun on a Strakeshaw wheel.

Hedgerow preserves, brambles, rosehips, crab apples, gets us all our jams for the entire winter, buy a large bag of sugar and start making real jam.

Cider making from all those thousands of tons of fruit nobody uses that fall to earth every year, we clean a few old peoples windows and clip their hedges for as many apples as we can possibly handle.

Why on earth would anyone want to play their life away on a computer game in summer or winter when there is a world out there to get many of the things that will help you save money and survive.

Just imagine how many down hours people spend doing absolutely nothing every day, put those peak working hours together and you could build another Hadrian's bloody wall in a year by hand.

[smoke n mirrors]

Burrying gold at two feet down would be of no use, my metal detector will discriminate for gold down to six feet, best to hide your stash high above ground and out of reach of dogs that can easily find newly disturbed ground.

The point of burying it two foot down isn't to avoid metal detectors. It's to avoid most forms of accidental discovery.

To avoid the metal detection issue you could simply bury the item near a large metal source such as a metal fence or something. You could also bury a piece of rusty junk a foot down to demotivate a would scavenger. :D

All you need to to is think about what you're doing. ;)

Oh and by the way you're derailing this thread by continually introducing the skills issue. The gold and silver issue is simply an additional string to ones bow.

.

[icke_is_right]

Lol, as fuel prices hit record highs, you seriously think driving to Germany will save you money???
A courier from Germany?? Get real please. The truth is that you cannot get a bargain on silver and to make profit you have to be very lucky or hold on to it until you're old and grey.

Gold is the best investment in the UK speaking from the bleeding obvious and experience.

I do the route regularly from Germany to UK. Possibly a cheap flight could be taken. (I haven't done that for years). Driving, there and back with ferry should be possible for under £220 = £400 odd saving, not peanuts to everyone. This might be possible via Ireland but I have no experience of that and this avenue was closed down more with CID upping rates.

Mace had his couriered his silver.

My mate has had his stored after buying CID, he can pick it up if his wishes 7% Vat in Germany.

Have you missed the point about silver not being held by banks and very little being above ground?

Most silver has been landfilled over the last 60 years and used in thousands of products.

Silver could become extinct by 2020.

The returns on silver are expected to far greater over time and the poster had decided to go 50/50. I fill in the possibilities/facts. Then it's up to the individual to decide. It's just better to be informed beforehand.

I don't fuck around like most people and talk out of my arse, I speak from experience. So, people like you can just moan about 20% VAT, when you can actually do something about it. The world is full of possibilities, for those with eyes to see and ears to hear.


Edit:

Just looking at the prices on www.norfolkline.co.uk, it's possible to get a return fare for £25. £12.50 each way. I like this ferry line. This is about the only time I eat junk food and treat myself to chips in the restaurant, when I sail with them. Then just work out mileage.

[domathy]

I thought it might be good to get some bullion too - so just bought 2kg of silver, do you think its okay to have some bullion too or have i shot myself in the foot?


@theapprentice Do you know a guy on dartmoor called Ivan? I met him yesterday and he does bushcraft courses on his land - he's got 22 acres dedicated to it and has natural springs there too. Think I might give it a go as he only charges a tenner per night normally.

[griswald]

The point of burying it two foot down isn't to avoid metal detectors. It's to avoid most forms of accidental discovery.

To avoid the metal detection issue you could simply bury the item near a large metal source such as a metal fence or something. You could also bury a piece of rusty junk a foot down to demotivate a would scavenger. :D

All you need to to is think about what you're doing. ;)

Oh and by the way you're derailing this thread by continually introducing the skills issue. The gold and silver issue is simply an additional string to ones bow.

.

Well regarding the skills issue............you had better get learning fast about exactly what a metal detector, can and cant do.
You obviously need to learn that skill.:D

Fat lot of use burying your gold next to a fence, or a rusty old buried bike. Any half decent metal detector with a variable discriminator, will buzz happily around your stash.

So you best book a spot with apprentices metal detecting course:D:D

griswald

[griswald]

I do the route regularly from Germany to UK. Possibly a cheap flight could be taken. (I haven't done that for years). Driving, there and back with ferry should be possible for under £220 = £400 odd saving, not peanuts to everyone. This might be possible via Ireland but I have no experience of that and this avenue was closed down more with CID upping rates.

Mace had his couriered his silver.

My mate has had his stored after buying CID, he can pick it up if his wishes 7% Vat in Germany.

Have you missed the point about silver not being held by banks and very little being above ground?

Most silver has been landfilled over the last 60 years and used in thousands of products.

Silver could become extinct by 2020.

The returns on silver are expected to far greater over time and the poster had decided to go 50/50. I fill in the possibilities/facts. Then it's up to the individual to decide. It's just better to be informed beforehand.

I don't fuck around like most people and talk out of my arse, I speak from experience. So, people like you can just moan about 20% VAT, when you can actually do something about it. The world is full of possibilities, for those with eyes to see and ears to hear.


Edit:

Just looking at the prices on www.norfolkline.co.uk, it's possible to get a return fare for £25. £12.50 each way. I like this ferry line. This is about the only time I eat junk food and treat myself to chips in the restaurant, when I sail with them. Then just work out mileage.

Maybe you could give him a lift I_I_R.:p

gris..

[the apprentice]

The point of burying it two foot down isn't to avoid metal detectors. It's to avoid most forms of accidental discovery.

To avoid the metal detection issue you could simply bury the item near a large metal source such as a metal fence or something. You could also bury a piece of rusty junk a foot down to demotivate a would scavenger. :D

All you need to to is think about what you're doing. ;)

Oh and by the way you're derailing this thread by continually introducing the skills issue. The gold and silver issue is simply an additional string to ones bow.

.

Have you got a modern metal detector, I thought not, when someone finds your junk and digs it out, the door is then open to what lies below, told you before higher up is much safer.

Place another item below that and an expert employed by the people who know you got this bounty who wants that which you have forgotten where you burried it, will know exactly what is afoot.

Disturbed ground is very easy to decifer and your stash becomes a neon light.

The string to your bow will eventually need to be spent with someone who has something you need like a pair of shoes, or a gold ring from your gold, I could do both for you, or take your fiat.

Never demonise an interest in skills, including the ones that you have right now that your using today to get the fiat to get your gold which is basically another form of fiat you cannot eat, how else can you get your gold.

On a closing note' how much does one think this gold actually cost the whole before it gets to your pocket, labour from where and the genies bottle is opened.

At it's real value it would be out of most persons reach, then the skills become worth their true value.

[smoke n mirrors]

Have you got a modern metal detector, I thought not, when someone finds your junk and digs it out, the door is then open to what lies below, told you before higher up is much safer.

Place another item below that and an expert employed by the people who know you got this bounty who wants that which you have forgotten where you burried it, will know exactly what is afoot.

Disturbed ground is very easy to decifer and your stash becomes a neon light.

The string to your bow will eventually need to be spent with someone who has something you need like a pair of shoes, or a gold ring from your gold, I could do both for you, or take your fiat.

Never demonise an interest in skills, including the ones that you have right now that your using today to get the fiat to get your gold which is basically another form of fiat you cannot eat, how else can you get your gold.

On a closing note' how much does one think this gold actually cost the whole before it gets to your pocket, labour from where and the genies bottle is opened.

At it's real value it would be out of most persons reach, then the skills become worth their true value.

This is the 'buy gold and silver' thread not the 'we must all have skills thread!'

I think I am more than capable of making a 4 inch hole blend in and not leave a sign post! ;)

And this may come as a shock to you but not everyone is a useless f**kwit. ;)

I'm sure people got your point several post back it's now getting very annoying in this thread. ;)

.

[heartbeatsalute]

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e391/optimusprime10/gold-bars.jpg
THIS GUY DOESN'T NEED TO READ THIS THREAD! :D

[the apprentice]

This is the 'buy gold and silver' thread not the 'we must all have skills thread!'

I think I am more than capable of making a 4 inch hole blend in and not leave a sign post! ;)

And this may come as a shock to you but not everyone is a useless f**kwit. ;)

I'm sure people got your point several post back it's now getting very annoying in this thread. ;)

.

I don't doubt your skills in creating an ideal hiding place for your shiny stuff, I respect that.

I won't torture you any more for your golden mind ;)

[griswald]

This thread is too important to let it descend into name calling. Please play nice:)

I think at this stage its fair to say that the thread has proved its worth, and I_I_R has proved his knowledge on the subject.

Lets debate and disagree, by all means , but play nice:)

Knowledge, precious metals, skills, land ect, are all valuable things to have at anytime, its part of our arsenal.

I dont want to end up in the rant room, its dark and nasty down there:D:D:D

gris...

[the apprentice]

I thought it might be good to get some bullion too - so just bought 2kg of silver, do you think its okay to have some bullion too or have i shot myself in the foot?


@theapprentice Do you know a guy on dartmoor called Ivan? I met him yesterday and he does bushcraft courses on his land - he's got 22 acres dedicated to it and has natural springs there too. Think I might give it a go as he only charges a tenner per night normally.

If you have just bought silver and remembered IIR's post a while back about the Humbolt era of USA it could be a wise move, a freind of mine has a sizable silver leverage that is under water right now and he says is set to rise in the future.
Icke is right will confirm what I'm saying here due to silver being mined out and only available from recycling in any great numbers.

I don't know this guy on the Moor, but if he is only charging that much I would take advantage of his skills, I love Dartmore and would join you if I lived nearer.

Once you've got enough skills they will pay for themselves like a dozen rabbits to your local game dealer will give you back much of what you spent and do the local farmer a favour, get yourself a female polecat, they also make great pets and her babies get you another bartering item and keep you warm inside your pocket.

On the gold front, another way to make money is to buy second hand jewelry which is always a more affordable commodity for the masses, Ramsdens are doing it and making large profits.
Buying second hand has already incurred the labour costs of manufacture and is readily useable, it's not pure but still worth something to someone when the tides turn a small stall on a decent market has no large overheads like a shop.

There are a few good stalls that are always full of cheaper gold in our area

I know someone who makes roughly double his outlay and removes the sovreins and creates other pieces.

If you notice whenever they find an ancient treasure find what items do you see most in the pot, also how gold versus skills was seen by the ancients.

[rainbowdear]

No, knowing about conspiracy, you now know a shitload about finance and that most of it is a scam.

Diamonds are hoarded by De Beers and hence prices are made artificially high. Diamonds are not a good investment, in my opinion.

Gold and Silver prices are manipulated downward via paper markets.

99% gold and silver have been confiscated over the last few hundred years. No one knows exactly how much there is or where it is. Most people today, own paper promises in metal, unbacked by the real thing. Hence I push the idea of physical gold and silver in your own possession.

Have you got any gold? If so, please hand it over and I'll give you a some electronic money for it. How's that sound? You spent it? OK, bye then.

Thank you for your reply. Much appreciated.
Shame i like diamonds!
Shame that no one else knows about antiques too.
Lets try again does anyone know if investment in antiques is still a security?
Of ocurse i guess you have to know which is which in this case too.
Thanks again!!!!

[icke_is_right]

Thank you for your reply. Much appreciated.
Shame i like diamonds!
Shame that no one else knows about antiques too.
Lets try again does anyone know if investment in antiques is still a security?
Of ocurse i guess you have to know which is which in this case too.
Thanks again!!!!

The answer is simple, I believe gold and silver are the place to be. You can also buy shares in good mining companies if you wish. This I don't recommend unless you know what you're doing.

KISS principle: 'Keep It Simple Stupid'. (That is a good principle to try and follow).

[icke_is_right]

Maybe you could give him a lift I_I_R.:p

gris..

'Rise up and walk, Andy Pipkin!'

[icke_is_right]

I thought it might be good to get some bullion too - so just bought 2kg of silver, do you think its okay to have some bullion too or have i shot myself in the foot?


@theapprentice Do you know a guy on dartmoor called Ivan? I met him yesterday and he does bushcraft courses on his land - he's got 22 acres dedicated to it and has natural springs there too. Think I might give it a go as he only charges a tenner per night normally.

Bullion is not treated as legal tender. Legal tender coins, can help with loopholes in taxation and transportation. On UK gold coins there is no CGT.

EG.

http://www.gata.org/node/7560

[geewhizz]

I do the route regularly from Germany to UK. Possibly a cheap flight could be taken. (I haven't done that for years). Driving, there and back with ferry should be possible for under £220 = £400 odd saving, not peanuts to everyone. This might be possible via Ireland but I have no experience of that and this avenue was closed down more with CID upping rates.

Mace had his couriered his silver.

My mate has had his stored after buying CID, he can pick it up if his wishes 7% Vat in Germany.

Have you missed the point about silver not being held by banks and very little being above ground?

Most silver has been landfilled over the last 60 years and used in thousands of products.

Silver could become extinct by 2020.

The returns on silver are expected to far greater over time and the poster had decided to go 50/50. I fill in the possibilities/facts. Then it's up to the individual to decide. It's just better to be informed beforehand.

I don't fuck around like most people and talk out of my arse, I speak from experience. So, people like you can just moan about 20% VAT, when you can actually do something about it. The world is full of possibilities, for those with eyes to see and ears to hear.




Edit:

Just looking at the prices on www.norfolkline.co.uk, it's possible to get a return fare for £25. £12.50 each way. I like this ferry line. This is about the only time I eat junk food and treat myself to chips in the restaurant, when I sail with them. Then just work out mileage.

You will have to pay import tax and VAT when legally bringing it into the UK.

Leaving it abroad in their vats is just like paper G/S imho

20% VAT sucks and I will never buy silver again.

[godner]

This is the 'buy gold and silver' thread not the 'we must all have skills thread!'

Well said. :)

[griswald]

You will have to pay import tax and VAT when legally bringing it into the UK.

Leaving it abroad in their vats is just like paper G/S imho

20% VAT sucks and I will never buy silver again.

Do you intend to stop buying everything else that has a 20% vat rate as well.

Most things have vat, but very littel else, if any, has the potential to recoup your vat expenditure that silver has.

The proof of that is the prices of gold and silver at the start of the thread.

gris..

[icke_is_right]

You will have to pay import tax and VAT when legally bringing it into the UK.

Leaving it abroad in their vats is just like paper G/S imho

20% VAT sucks and I will never buy silver again.

Bollox. I've rung the authorities and checked this out. When you've paid the tax in Germany of 7%, you are allowed to bring the silver back to the UK with no further charges. You need to provide purchase reciepts showing this for customs.

Get educated man, stop BStting and start trying to help.

Leaving it abroad: Duuurh, do you think I didn't tell him that? His house in in an insecure, highly burgled area and he didn't feel comfortable bringing 1000oz to the house etc..

[griswald]

Well said. :)


Personally I dont mind slightly off topic posts, if they contribute to the general education of those discussing things.

I,m sure we have all done it. haven,t we. I know I have ;)

gris....

[the apprentice]

Let me say if my overall view of skills is annoying anyone it is not by intent it is by design for a reason.

Learning anything for a personal gain is a skill like working within the parameters of a somewhat controlled bullion or metals market, is a skill, it is all related and why many come here to learn from those for a slight gain/return.

As anyone who profits or looses in earning interest on gold can vary, sometime dramatically with huge losses involved.

Someone mentioned VAT.

If you are in control of what you need and what you make for yourself you are in control of your energy/labour, you by pass the VAT the tax man and the middle man, this is THE ultimate skill.

Remember' where everything we have came from and who gave their energy in order of those items becomming a reality and then you might understand how your whole either works or does'nt work.

That said I will now forever hold my peice on the skills angle, and fair thee all well.

[geewhizz]

Bollox. I've rung the authorities and checked this out. When you've paid the tax in Germany of 7%, you are allowed to bring the silver back to the UK with no further charges. You need to provide purchase reciepts showing this for customs.

Get educated man, stop BStting and start trying to help.

Leaving it abroad: Duuurh, do you think I didn't tell him that? His house in in an insecure, highly burgled area and he didn't feel comfortable bringing 1000oz to the house etc..

This was BEFORE the 20% tax hike..Icke Is Wrong.



Freedom of Information Act 2000
Dear Mr Jepcott
Thank you for your e-mail dated 16th January 2010. You have requested information relating
to the import of gold and silver bullion to the UK. Specifically you have asked:
1. Your website says any information regarding the importation of
Krugerands, or gold and silver bullion (IHTM21024 - Types of asset:
Krugerands, gold and silver bullion) has been withheld because of
exemptions in the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

Why?

2. Does HM Revenue and Customs levy charges on the individual
bringing into the UK their own personal collection of coins and
bullion, namely:

Bullion coins (both silver and gold), produced by foreign
Government mints, which have a face value in the currency of the
country they were minted in.

Bullion, in the form of small minted bars, produced by private
mints.

If the answer to these questions is yes, what are the charges?


Information is available in large print, audio tape and Braille formats.
Type Talk service prefix number – 18001









1. Dealing with your first question, I am treating this as a request for the information
contained in our guidance under reference IHTM21024. It may help if I point out that the
guidance you have referred to is not concerned with the importation of these goods. The
guidance is part of HMRC’s Inheritance Tax Manual and relates to the valuation of personal
assets for Inheritance tax purposes. This information is being withheld under section
31(1)(d) of the Freedom of Information Act 2000.
Section 31(1) (d) allows public authorities to withhold information if its disclosure would or
would be likely to prejudice the assessment or collection of tax.
I believe that disclosure would be likely to undermine the compliance activity which HMRC
undertakes with regard to the assessment and collection of Inheritance Tax. I have reached
this conclusion as we believe that the requested information could be used by opportunistic
individuals to fraudulently evade liability in an attempt to pay less tax. Furthermore, if we put
information about our compliance regime and risks in the public domain it would allow those
individuals intent on abusing the system to arrange their affairs or rehearse arguments to
make it less likely that they would be detected. For these reasons I conclude there is a real
and probable risk to our ability to assess and collect tax and the exemption applies.
Section 31 is a qualified exemption which means that, if it applies, I must consider whether it
is in the public interest to override the exemption and release the information. I have very
carefully considered this but have decided that on balance it is not in the public interest to
release this information. In coming to this conclusion, I have considered a number of
factors.
I accept that there is strong public interest in ensuring that HMRC is accountable for its
decisions and is as transparent as possible about the ways in which it reaches them.
Publishing the information requested would, on the face of it reassure the public, that our
compliance activities are fair and robust and applied equitably. This would increase the
public’s confidence in the tax system. There is also a general public interest in the public
being aware of and being able to challenge our decisions; knowledge of our procedures
would assist this. But I also take into account that HMRC is subject to review by external
bodies such as the National Audit Office, the Adjudicators Office and on an individual level
the Appeal Commissioners so the public interest in our accountability is met by the oversight
of those bodies.
But there is also a strong public interest in HMRC being able to enforce the law properly so
that the tax burden is shared equally. Anything that might assist those intent on avoiding tax
is not in the public interest. Evasion and avoidance unfairly shifts the tax burden onto
honest taxpayers and that is not in the public interest.
Anything that puts at risk our compliance activities could undermine public confidence in the
tax system. This could damage the general climate of honesty among the overwhelming
majority of taxpayers who use the system properly and that is not in the public interest.
So on balance I conclude it is not in the public interest to set aside the exemption.
2. Turning to the second part of your request, I can advise you that the UK Trade Tariff
enables you to find the commodity code to classify goods for import and export. The
commodity codes can then be used to find import duties, taxes, reliefs etc in respect of
particular goods.
Below is the information relating to the specific goods you have asked about, together with
the commodity codes for these items.
Silver coins (not legal tender)
7118101000 duty rate 0% VAT 17.5%
Gold coins (not legal tender)

7118900010 duty rate 0% VAT Exempt or 17.5%





Silver & Gold coins (legal tender)

7118900090 duty rate 0% VAT Exempt or 17.5%

Gold Bullion (Non-monetary)

7108131000 duty rate 0% VAT 17.5%

Gold Bullion (Monetary)

7108200000 duty rate 0% VAT 17.5%

I have provided a link to the online version of the UK Trade Tariff here:

http://online.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/tariff?r.s=tl&r.l1=1079717544&r.lc=en&r.l2=10
79841842
You have asked about charges in relation to goods brought into the UK as part of a personal
collection. VAT relief may be applicable, dependent on the particular circumstances. You
can contact HMRC’s National Advice Service Enquiry Line to get advice on what charges
might be levied in your particular circumstances. The Telephone number is 0845 010 9000
and the service is open from 8.00 am to 8.00 pm Monday to Friday.

If you are not happy with this reply you may request a review by writing to HMRC FOI Team,
Room 4/52, 100 Parliament Street London SWIA 2BQ or by e-mail to
[email address]. You must request a review within 2 months of the date of this
letter. It would assist our review if you set out which aspects of the reply concern you and
why you are dissatisfied.
If you are not content with the outcome of an internal review, you may apply directly to the
Information Commissioner for a decision. The Information Commissioner will not usually
consider a case unless you have exhausted the internal review procedure provided by
HMRC. He can be contacted at The Information Commissioner’s Office, Wycliffe House,
Water Lane, Wilmslow, Cheshire SK9 5AF.

Yours sincerely


Teresa Chance

[domathy]

Bullion is not treated as legal tender. Legal tender coins, can help with loopholes in taxation and transportation. On UK gold coins there is no CGT.

EG.

http://www.gata.org/node/7560

Sure, but if they plan to create a single world currency then will the coins still be legal tender? Especially if the new currency will be electronic with no cash at all. In that case the coins will just be lumps of silver?

[the apprentice]

Sure, but if they plan to create a single world currency then will the coins still be legal tender? Especially if the new currency will be electronic with no cash at all. In that case the coins will just be lumps of silver?

As Andy H pointed out a few threads ago, you may like to study what is happening in Nigeria of late since they went cashless.

I started a thread called the electronic batton at work about this very matter.

Maybe Andy H can explain things better, what say you H?.

[griswald]

Sure, but if they plan to create a single world currency then will the coins still be legal tender? Especially if the new currency will be electronic with no cash at all. In that case the coins will just be lumps of silver?

In the event of a new world electronic currency, would you prefer to be left holding useless fiat, or valuable industrial metal

griswald

[icke_is_right]

This was BEFORE the 20% tax hike..Icke Is Wrong.



Freedom of Information Act 2000
Dear Mr Jepcott
Thank you for your e-mail dated 16th January 2010. You have requested information relating
to the import of gold and silver bullion to the UK. Specifically you have asked:
1. Your website says any information regarding the importation of
Krugerands, or gold and silver bullion (IHTM21024 - Types of asset:
Krugerands, gold and silver bullion) has been withheld because of
exemptions in the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

Why?

2. Does HM Revenue and Customs levy charges on the individual
bringing into the UK their own personal collection of coins and
bullion, namely:

Bullion coins (both silver and gold), produced by foreign
Government mints, which have a face value in the currency of the
country they were minted in.

Bullion, in the form of small minted bars, produced by private
mints.

If the answer to these questions is yes, what are the charges?


Information is available in large print, audio tape and Braille formats.
Type Talk service prefix number – 18001









1. Dealing with your first question, I am treating this as a request for the information
contained in our guidance under reference IHTM21024. It may help if I point out that the
guidance you have referred to is not concerned with the importation of these goods. The
guidance is part of HMRC’s Inheritance Tax Manual and relates to the valuation of personal
assets for Inheritance tax purposes. This information is being withheld under section
31(1)(d) of the Freedom of Information Act 2000.
Section 31(1) (d) allows public authorities to withhold information if its disclosure would or
would be likely to prejudice the assessment or collection of tax.
I believe that disclosure would be likely to undermine the compliance activity which HMRC
undertakes with regard to the assessment and collection of Inheritance Tax. I have reached
this conclusion as we believe that the requested information could be used by opportunistic
individuals to fraudulently evade liability in an attempt to pay less tax. Furthermore, if we put
information about our compliance regime and risks in the public domain it would allow those
individuals intent on abusing the system to arrange their affairs or rehearse arguments to
make it less likely that they would be detected. For these reasons I conclude there is a real
and probable risk to our ability to assess and collect tax and the exemption applies.
Section 31 is a qualified exemption which means that, if it applies, I must consider whether it
is in the public interest to override the exemption and release the information. I have very
carefully considered this but have decided that on balance it is not in the public interest to
release this information. In coming to this conclusion, I have considered a number of
factors.
I accept that there is strong public interest in ensuring that HMRC is accountable for its
decisions and is as transparent as possible about the ways in which it reaches them.
Publishing the information requested would, on the face of it reassure the public, that our
compliance activities are fair and robust and applied equitably. This would increase the
public’s confidence in the tax system. There is also a general public interest in the public
being aware of and being able to challenge our decisions; knowledge of our procedures
would assist this. But I also take into account that HMRC is subject to review by external
bodies such as the National Audit Office, the Adjudicators Office and on an individual level
the Appeal Commissioners so the public interest in our accountability is met by the oversight
of those bodies.
But there is also a strong public interest in HMRC being able to enforce the law properly so
that the tax burden is shared equally. Anything that might assist those intent on avoiding tax
is not in the public interest. Evasion and avoidance unfairly shifts the tax burden onto
honest taxpayers and that is not in the public interest.
Anything that puts at risk our compliance activities could undermine public confidence in the
tax system. This could damage the general climate of honesty among the overwhelming
majority of taxpayers who use the system properly and that is not in the public interest.
So on balance I conclude it is not in the public interest to set aside the exemption.
2. Turning to the second part of your request, I can advise you that the UK Trade Tariff
enables you to find the commodity code to classify goods for import and export. The
commodity codes can then be used to find import duties, taxes, reliefs etc in respect of
particular goods.
Below is the information relating to the specific goods you have asked about, together with
the commodity codes for these items.
Silver coins (not legal tender)
7118101000 duty rate 0% VAT 17.5%
Gold coins (not legal tender)

7118900010 duty rate 0% VAT Exempt or 17.5%





Silver & Gold coins (legal tender)

7118900090 duty rate 0% VAT Exempt or 17.5%

Gold Bullion (Non-monetary)

7108131000 duty rate 0% VAT 17.5%

Gold Bullion (Monetary)

7108200000 duty rate 0% VAT 17.5%

I have provided a link to the online version of the UK Trade Tariff here:

http://online.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/tariff?r.s=tl&r.l1=1079717544&r.lc=en&r.l2=10
79841842
You have asked about charges in relation to goods brought into the UK as part of a personal
collection. VAT relief may be applicable, dependent on the particular circumstances. You
can contact HMRC’s National Advice Service Enquiry Line to get advice on what charges
might be levied in your particular circumstances. The Telephone number is 0845 010 9000
and the service is open from 8.00 am to 8.00 pm Monday to Friday.

If you are not happy with this reply you may request a review by writing to HMRC FOI Team,
Room 4/52, 100 Parliament Street London SWIA 2BQ or by e-mail to
[email address]. You must request a review within 2 months of the date of this
letter. It would assist our review if you set out which aspects of the reply concern you and
why you are dissatisfied.
If you are not content with the outcome of an internal review, you may apply directly to the
Information Commissioner for a decision. The Information Commissioner will not usually
consider a case unless you have exhausted the internal review procedure provided by
HMRC. He can be contacted at The Information Commissioner’s Office, Wycliffe House,
Water Lane, Wilmslow, Cheshire SK9 5AF.

Yours sincerely


Teresa Chance

What is the VAT on silver now? 20% or 17.5%? This document refers to 17.5%. You need to direct the question to being directly about ARRIVAL OR ACQUISITION of silver coins bought in Germany at 7% Vat and brought to the UK.

VAT is levied on IMPORTS from countries outside the EU. This was always so, and continues to be so. No surprise. You've asked about import, which normally refers to other countries.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageLibrary_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000152&propertyType=document#P22_934

2.2 Are goods arriving in the UK from other Member States referred to as imports?

With the introduction of the Single Market, goods coming into the UK from other Member States are no longer called imports, but are referred to as acquisitions or arrivals. The term 'import' is only used for goods coming into the UK from countries outside the EC. For further information on imports, see Notice 702 Imports.




Every time I've mentioned this to people, I've mentioned that they should check out the rules for themselves by ringing Customs and Excise. I've checked out the rules for myself as I will bring silver coins from Germany to the UK at some point. So, before I do this, I will ring again and probably get the proof in writing to make double sure that we're all on the same wavelength but please, the rest of you note, that I'm serious about what I do here and try to help and will continue to do so. Clearly above, you can see that the question is wrong. I could follow this up but I don't want to waste time with people to just be proved right. (Or wrong as you are welcome to believe). It's up to the individual to do their own research, this is a game for grown ups, not children.

[domathy]

In the event of a new world electronic currency, would you prefer to be left holding useless fiat, or valuable industrial metal

griswald

So is it okay that I bought bullion as well as coins? I mean, at the end of the day if silver is in demand ill still be able to sell my bars right? If the only real advantage of coins over bullion is the tax loophole ie because coins are legal tender then I may aswell hold bullion as it is the elite who dictate what is and what isn't legal tender.

[domathy]

As Andy H pointed out a few threads ago, you may like to study what is happening in Nigeria of late since they went cashless.

I started a thread called the electronic batton at work about this very matter.

Maybe Andy H can explain things better, what say you H?.

Okay thanks.

[icke_is_right]

So is it okay that I bought bullion as well as coins? I mean, at the end of the day if silver is in demand ill still be able to sell my bars right? If the only real advantage of coins over bullion is the tax loophole ie because coins are legal tender then I may aswell hold bullion as it is the elite who dictate what is and what isn't legal tender.

Yes it's precious metal.

[icke_is_right]

Let me say if my overall view of skills is annoying anyone it is not by intent it is by design for a reason.

Learning anything for a personal gain is a skill like working within the parameters of a somewhat controlled bullion or metals market, is a skill, it is all related and why many come here to learn from those for a slight gain/return.

As anyone who profits or looses in earning interest on gold can vary, sometime dramatically with huge losses involved.

Someone mentioned VAT.

If you are in control of what you need and what you make for yourself you are in control of your energy/labour, you by pass the VAT the tax man and the middle man, this is THE ultimate skill.

Remember' where everything we have came from and who gave their energy in order of those items becomming a reality and then you might understand how your whole either works or does'nt work.

That said I will now forever hold my peice on the skills angle, and fair thee all well.

No, I find it fascinating but it gets a bit confusing as it's better to keep the thread a bit more specific to the subject matter. I'd be interested if you could do some threads on Longbow creation, shoe making etc., well organised and show a newbie 'how to'. You can reach a lot of people but the design of the message needs to be specific, simple and concise in each case. The Organite thread is massive and has confused the hell out of me, as too this thread. Best to reference the important posts like a book index, if poss.

[blackjimmy]

This was BEFORE the 20% tax hike..Icke Is Wrong.



Freedom of Information Act 2000
Dear Mr Jepcott
Thank you for your e-mail dated 16th January 2010. You have requested information relating
to the import of gold and silver bullion to the UK. Specifically you have asked:
1. Your website says any information regarding the importation of
Krugerands, or gold and silver bullion (IHTM21024 - Types of asset:
Krugerands, gold and silver bullion) has been withheld because of
exemptions in the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

Why?

2. Does HM Revenue and Customs levy charges on the individual
bringing into the UK their own personal collection of coins and
bullion, namely:

Bullion coins (both silver and gold), produced by foreign
Government mints, which have a face value in the currency of the
country they were minted in.

Bullion, in the form of small minted bars, produced by private
mints.

If the answer to these questions is yes, what are the charges?


Information is available in large print, audio tape and Braille formats.
Type Talk service prefix number – 18001









1. Dealing with your first question, I am treating this as a request for the information
contained in our guidance under reference IHTM21024. It may help if I point out that the
guidance you have referred to is not concerned with the importation of these goods. The
guidance is part of HMRC’s Inheritance Tax Manual and relates to the valuation of personal
assets for Inheritance tax purposes. This information is being withheld under section
31(1)(d) of the Freedom of Information Act 2000.
Section 31(1) (d) allows public authorities to withhold information if its disclosure would or
would be likely to prejudice the assessment or collection of tax.
I believe that disclosure would be likely to undermine the compliance activity which HMRC
undertakes with regard to the assessment and collection of Inheritance Tax. I have reached
this conclusion as we believe that the requested information could be used by opportunistic
individuals to fraudulently evade liability in an attempt to pay less tax. Furthermore, if we put
information about our compliance regime and risks in the public domain it would allow those
individuals intent on abusing the system to arrange their affairs or rehearse arguments to
make it less likely that they would be detected. For these reasons I conclude there is a real
and probable risk to our ability to assess and collect tax and the exemption applies.
Section 31 is a qualified exemption which means that, if it applies, I must consider whether it
is in the public interest to override the exemption and release the information. I have very
carefully considered this but have decided that on balance it is not in the public interest to
release this information. In coming to this conclusion, I have considered a number of
factors.
I accept that there is strong public interest in ensuring that HMRC is accountable for its
decisions and is as transparent as possible about the ways in which it reaches them.
Publishing the information requested would, on the face of it reassure the public, that our
compliance activities are fair and robust and applied equitably. This would increase the
public’s confidence in the tax system. There is also a general public interest in the public
being aware of and being able to challenge our decisions; knowledge of our procedures
would assist this. But I also take into account that HMRC is subject to review by external
bodies such as the National Audit Office, the Adjudicators Office and on an individual level
the Appeal Commissioners so the public interest in our accountability is met by the oversight
of those bodies.
But there is also a strong public interest in HMRC being able to enforce the law properly so
that the tax burden is shared equally. Anything that might assist those intent on avoiding tax
is not in the public interest. Evasion and avoidance unfairly shifts the tax burden onto
honest taxpayers and that is not in the public interest.
Anything that puts at risk our compliance activities could undermine public confidence in the
tax system. This could damage the general climate of honesty among the overwhelming
majority of taxpayers who use the system properly and that is not in the public interest.
So on balance I conclude it is not in the public interest to set aside the exemption.
2. Turning to the second part of your request, I can advise you that the UK Trade Tariff
enables you to find the commodity code to classify goods for import and export. The
commodity codes can then be used to find import duties, taxes, reliefs etc in respect of
particular goods.
Below is the information relating to the specific goods you have asked about, together with
the commodity codes for these items.
Silver coins (not legal tender)
7118101000 duty rate 0% VAT 17.5%
Gold coins (not legal tender)

7118900010 duty rate 0% VAT Exempt or 17.5%





Silver & Gold coins (legal tender)

7118900090 duty rate 0% VAT Exempt or 17.5%

Gold Bullion (Non-monetary)

7108131000 duty rate 0% VAT 17.5%

Gold Bullion (Monetary)

7108200000 duty rate 0% VAT 17.5%

I have provided a link to the online version of the UK Trade Tariff here:

http://online.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/tariff?r.s=tl&r.l1=1079717544&r.lc=en&r.l2=10
79841842
You have asked about charges in relation to goods brought into the UK as part of a personal
collection. VAT relief may be applicable, dependent on the particular circumstances. You
can contact HMRC’s National Advice Service Enquiry Line to get advice on what charges
might be levied in your particular circumstances. The Telephone number is 0845 010 9000
and the service is open from 8.00 am to 8.00 pm Monday to Friday.

If you are not happy with this reply you may request a review by writing to HMRC FOI Team,
Room 4/52, 100 Parliament Street London SWIA 2BQ or by e-mail to
[email address]. You must request a review within 2 months of the date of this
letter. It would assist our review if you set out which aspects of the reply concern you and
why you are dissatisfied.
If you are not content with the outcome of an internal review, you may apply directly to the
Information Commissioner for a decision. The Information Commissioner will not usually
consider a case unless you have exhausted the internal review procedure provided by
HMRC. He can be contacted at The Information Commissioner’s Office, Wycliffe House,
Water Lane, Wilmslow, Cheshire SK9 5AF.

Yours sincerely


Teresa Chance

As mentioned before I have personally bought metals on the intenet from germany at 7% VAT, had them stored in germany, and then had them couriered to the UK where they are now in my possesion.. saving 13% (minus delivery/storage costs). At no point did I have to pay any extra tax. I paid 7% VAT not 20% so what IIR is saying is completely correct and doable. As far as I am aware when buying things inside the EU countries you are only legally obliged to pay VAT once on your purchases. This is different if you are having the seller ship it directly to you.. in this case it is like an import and you will have to pay the VAT of the country that you are importing in to.. that is what your letter is about. If you buy from CID (coininvestdirect.com) and if you want them personally to ship to you in the UK they will charge you 20% VAT. It specifically states on the website that in order to get the 7% you either have to pick it up in person or have it couriered by a third party as your personal property.. not an import.

please refer to

https://www.coininvestdirect.com/en/collection_in_germany.html (http://https://www.coininvestdirect.com/en/collection_in_germany.html)

I have done it. Mace has done it. Fact.

[geewhizz]

As mentioned before I have personally bought metals on the intenet from germany at 7% VAT, had them stored in germany, and then had them couriered to the UK where they are now in my possesion.. saving 13% (minus delivery/storage costs). At no point did I have to pay any extra tax. I paid 7% VAT not 20% so what IIR is saying is completely correct and doable. As far as I am aware when buying things inside the EU countries you are only legally obliged to pay VAT once on your purchases. This is different if you are having the seller ship it directly to you.. in this case it is like an import and you will have to pay the VAT of the country that you are importing in to.. that is what your letter is about. If you buy from CID (coininvestdirect.com) and if you want them personally to ship to you in the UK they will charge you 20% VAT. It specifically states on the website that in order to get the 7% you either have to pick it up in person or have it couriered by a third party as your personal property.. not an import.

please refer to

https://www.coininvestdirect.com/en/collection_in_germany.html (http://https://www.coininvestdirect.com/en/collection_in_germany.html)

I have done it. Mace has done it. Fact.

Ok I stand corrected.

UK fucking wank 20%

[blackjimmy]

UK fucking wank 20%

No arguments there! :D

[nonfictionalentity]

Not sure what everyone's getting into a hoo haa about VAT etc for. But I purchased around £6k worth of gold bullion for someone from Coin Investor Direct late last year. You pay the price on their site and it's couriered to your door within a few days.

Pretty simple procedure...

[blackjimmy]

Not sure what everyone's getting into a hoo haa about VAT etc for. But I purchased around £6k worth of gold bullion for someone from Coin Investor Direct late last year. You pay the price on their site and it's couriered to your door within a few days.

Pretty simple procedure...

There's no VAT on gold...

[rainbowdear]

Hi David Icke is right!

How about property?
the little appartment?

[icke_is_right]

Hi David Icke is right!

How about property?
the little appartment?

Property is in a bubble and has been expanded for the last 40 years. They are raising interest rates, as I thought they would to further make things worst for property owners.

I recommend gold and silver because they are manipulated down in one of the biggest scams in history. A couple of years ago, there were said to be 100 promises on each oz of silver and about 50 on gold. This could be far more, hence with continued money printing, (also predicted, when the majority were talking constantly about deflation), is the name of the game. The future gains in the metals should be astounding, as the public wake up to further money printing at some stage.

No one's got anything against buying land that you 'live off'. However, this isn't the same as a financial investment just to protect your wealth.

If you'd sold your average house in the UK as the start of this thread, the house would be worth pretty much the same (there are parts where house prices are rising) but in gold and silver you'd have over doubled your money. With this I believe that your purchasing power would have gone beyond inflation rises. This will continue to be so.

[paloem]

1going down 385 in twon years perforance get out , sell sell sell. buy guns

[icke_is_right]

Sinclair - Greek Tragedy Part of $37 Trillion, Not $3.5 Billion


http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2012/3/9_Sinclair_-_Greek_Tragedy_Part_of_%2437_Trillion%2C_Not_%243. 5_Billion.html

[icke_is_right]

Sinclair - Greek Tragedy Part of $37 Trillion, Not $3.5 Billion


http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2012/3/9_Sinclair_-_Greek_Tragedy_Part_of_%2437_Trillion%2C_Not_%243. 5_Billion.html


Jim Rogers on Goldseek radio interview the other day, said that he's in commodities because:

'If the economy does well, people will start buying more,driving the price of commods up. If the economy does badly, they'll print more money, driving the prices of commods up'. (Not verbatim)

[godner]

Hi David Icke is right!

How about property?
the little appartment?

I've been screwed on property, hence my interest in G/S. Wish I'd sussed it a few years ago!
Property can be good if you're aiming for a return over 10-20 years, otherwise unless you're lucky forget it.

It's not like you own it anyway, even if the mortgage has been paid off.

That said, I know a few people who've done all right via the means of the Monopoly board. Just a question of timing.

Personally I'll never 'buy' another property again, it's an illusion just like ISAs are. Yes you can make on these, but you've gotta be especially canny. And I'm not. :rolleyes:

G/S is the way forward. The Controllers knew that years ago.

[revelations8878]

So is it okay that I bought bullion as well as coins? I mean, at the end of the day if silver is in demand ill still be able to sell my bars right? If the only real advantage of coins over bullion is the tax loophole ie because coins are legal tender then I may aswell hold bullion as it is the elite who dictate what is and what isn't legal tender.

Not knocking bullion at all as you do save on it but I decided to go for coins because of the "division factor". It was mention on this thread a while ago that coins allow you to be more flexible.

I.e. if you need to sell/trade part of your stash (for whatever reason) if you had 100oz in 1oz coins you can divide it and sell/trade what you need to, whereas if you had 100oz in 1 bullion bar then you'd have to sell/trade the whole thing, even though, for example, you only needed to sell/trade 60 oz of it.

Also if silver does shoot beyond the moon then there's also the argument that a 100oz bar (or whatever big denomination of bullion) would be a lot harder to shift when the time comes.

These reasons were why I paid more for coins. But as you've got a mixture I think it's probably an even more sensible choice as you're covered either way.

[revelations8878]

Now on to the CGT (Capital Gains Tax) issue in the UK.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cgt/possessions/basics.htm

HMRC states that personal possessions that are INDIVIDUALLY worth less than £6,000 is exempt from CGT and it specifically mentions "coins and stamps" under the "Typical taxable possessions" heading.

So each coin/bullion we have needs to sell for more than £6,000 (possible?!) before we get hit with CGT? Can anyone confirm if I've got the right end of the stick?

We also get around £10k of capital gains tax exemption per year.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cgt/intro/when-to-pay.htm
This link (under the first heading) states that "foreign currency you bought for your own or your family's personal use outside the UK".

So surely as maples, eagles, kooks, kugers etc are foreign legal tender could it be argued that we bought these coins as personal use outside UK and therefore exempt...

Again if anyone can clarify?

[icke_is_right]

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cgt/intro/when-to-pay.htm
This link (under the first heading) states that "foreign currency you bought for your own or your family's personal use outside the UK".

So surely as maples, eagles, kooks, kugers etc are foreign legal tender could it be argued that we bought these coins as personal use outside UK and therefore exempt...

Again if anyone can clarify?

This is exactly the rule that I came across when I looked into this, so I interpret it as foreign currency that you can spend outside the UK and not be taxed. However, they do mention something like 'reasonable sums' but what is a 'reasonable sum' to Paris Hilton?

As I've tried to highlight, there are so many loopholes when what you hold is legal tender in other countries. OK, yet to be tested but the rules are generally there for all to see in black and white.

I will perhaps find details on countries where disposal of such assets is CGT free. At the moment, I think Germany is but I'm not sure. No rush yet on this, so it will be delved into more in the future.

When you play by normal rules, everything is transparent and leaves a paper trail from bank accounts. This is not so with bullion coin.

[domathy]

Sorry, I know this has been asked before. My friend wants a couple philharmonic master sets, plus some other bits. What is the max limit allowed thru customs in one time?? I'm on my phone so can't type or search properly. Thanks!

EDIT: found it - "It's this difference between the face and market values of the coin that makes it so attractive in the context of international money transfers. The coin manages -- astonishingly -- to circumvent currency import regulations. A person travelling from Austria to Germany is allowed to bring E10,000 ($14,000) into the country without having to declare it at customs. So that person can bring more than 6,000 Philharmonic coins over the border and in doing so, bring home, with each trip, more than E110,000 ($156,000) of his hidden Austrian treasure."

So, I_I_R.......should I go direct to Austria?! Im allowed to bring £10k into UK without declaring - so I could get a lot of coins and still be within that allowance. Do i need to declare bullion btw - im guessing thats an obvious yes? Advice gratefully received - I will be doing the travelling (expenses paid) and getting stuff for myself at the same time :)

ALso, why does CID charge tax on coins when they probably bring their coins over in batches of E10K?

[domathy]

Not knocking bullion at all as you do save on it but I decided to go for coins because of the "division factor". It was mention on this thread a while ago that coins allow you to be more flexible.

I.e. if you need to sell/trade part of your stash (for whatever reason) if you had 100oz in 1oz coins you can divide it and sell/trade what you need to, whereas if you had 100oz in 1 bullion bar then you'd have to sell/trade the whole thing, even though, for example, you only needed to sell/trade 60 oz of it.

Also if silver does shoot beyond the moon then there's also the argument that a 100oz bar (or whatever big denomination of bullion) would be a lot harder to shift when the time comes.

These reasons were why I paid more for coins. But as you've got a mixture I think it's probably an even more sensible choice as you're covered either way.

Thanks, and im actually erring much more on the side of coins now anyway.

[icke_is_right]

Sorry, I know this has been asked before. My friend wants a couple philharmonic master sets, plus some other bits. What is the max limit allowed thru customs in one time?? I'm on my phone so can't type or search properly. Thanks!

EDIT: found it - "It's this difference between the face and market values of the coin that makes it so attractive in the context of international money transfers. The coin manages -- astonishingly -- to circumvent currency import regulations. A person travelling from Austria to Germany is allowed to bring E10,000 ($14,000) into the country without having to declare it at customs. So that person can bring more than 6,000 Philharmonic coins over the border and in doing so, bring home, with each trip, more than E110,000 ($156,000) of his hidden Austrian treasure."

So, I_I_R.......should I go direct to Austria?! Im allowed to bring £10k into UK without declaring - so I could get a lot of coins and still be within that allowance. Do i need to declare bullion btw - im guessing thats an obvious yes? Advice gratefully received - I will be doing the travelling (expenses paid) and getting stuff for myself at the same time :)

ALso, why does CID charge tax on coins when they probably bring their coins over in batches of E10K?

You can bring as many as you like through. Why not buy with GBP and get couriered via CID?

The rule is that if you get stopped on the journey and asked, you must say that you've got over E10k of currency. You get bollocked and fined if they ask, then they find it and you keep your mouth shut. (This means police or customs).

Ring customs and excise for further advice and get everything confirmed, to be sure. I think just order and courier. If you want to do a trip. Fair enough.

[domathy]

You can bring as many as you like through. Why not buy with GBP and get couriered via CID?

The rule is that if you get stopped on the journey and asked, you must say that you've got over E10k of currency. You get bollocked and fined if they ask, then they find it and you keep your mouth shut. (This means police or customs).

Ring customs and excise for further advice and get everything confirmed, to be sure. I think just order and courier. If you want to do a trip. Fair enough.

Yeah, maybe ill just get courriered.

Also, what do you mean by E10k currency? Is that the value of metal or face value of coiins? Sorry as im not sure if we're talking coins or bullion here.
But im guessing that once 7% is paid that it doesnt matter how much i bring back. CID will know so I suppose I can ask them. I was thinking about flying but i think too heavy for hand luggage and not safe in the hold. Either way will be over baggage allowance - though could pay extra. And im sick of long distance driving so yeah, courrier probably best option. Thanks.

[rainbowdear]

Property is in a bubble and has been expanded for the last 40 years. They are raising interest rates, as I thought they would to further make things worst for property owners.

I recommend gold and silver because they are manipulated down in one of the biggest scams in history. A couple of years ago, there were said to be 100 promises on each oz of silver and about 50 on gold. This could be far more, hence with continued money printing, (also predicted, when the majority were talking constantly about deflation), is the name of the game. The future gains in the metals should be astounding, as the public wake up to further money printing at some stage.

No one's got anything against buying land that you 'live off'. However, this isn't the same as a financial investment just to protect your wealth.

If you'd sold your average house in the UK as the start of this thread, the house would be worth pretty much the same (there are parts where house prices are rising) but in gold and silver you'd have over doubled your money. With this I believe that your purchasing power would have gone beyond inflation rises. This will continue to be so.

Thank you David Icke is Right
just to say i am paying out right and renting the property.
Buying cheap as the market has gone right down...they are pratically giving things away around here as people are to weiry to part with their cash.
It is an investors market whilst savers might loose everything leaving to sleep in the banks.
Thus i provide myself a monthly revenue and wait till the prices pick up again.
Although i do see your point about the constant reevaluation of gold and silver. It is to be more than seriously considered.
But yes you might say that i behave with the system and try to learn and profit from it. I a a good student!

[rainbowdear]

Wow weird!
i was replying to Godner when my Bank appeared on my screen???????
It freaked me out!!!!!!!
i knew i was in contact with ET but this is a little much.
What does this mean?

[domathy]

Wow weird!
i was replying to Godner when my Bank appeared on my screen???????
It freaked me out!!!!!!!
i knew i was in contact with ET but this is a little much.
What does this mean?

Its definitely a sign. You are to relinquish all your money to Godner right away.

[indolering]

.

http://sherriequestioningall.blogspot.com/2012/03/both-germany-and-switzerland-want-their.html

THURSDAY, MARCH 8, 2012

Both Germany and Switzerland want their Gold Back from N.Y. Fed. The U.S. has gone to War over this type of thing. What will they do now, since there is no Gold?


Well, I believe things are getting more and more interesting.

Both Germany and Switzerland have come out saying they want their Gold back from storage at the N.Y. Fed.

Considering the U.S. went into Iraq over trading oil outside of the dollar, Libya for daring to talk about trading oil for a gold backed currency. Let's not forget Iran now wanting to trade oil for gold and by passing the dollar, so now the U.S. is ready to start a war there.

With Germany and Switzerland wanting their Gold back from the U.S., what is the U.S. going to do? They can't exactly invade those countries. So is their other option is to invade other countries around the world that have their own gold stored in the country to get enough to give Germany and Switzerland?


Swiss Initiative - (see full article)



We all know the Gold is not there and the U.S. would never just hand it over in the first place. Imagine in a few months how this may go down, would the truth be revealed to the public? Would Switzerland and Germany stand up and say: "The U.S. will not give us our own gold back, because they don't have it?"

Will this finally break the metals manipulation, once it is found there really isn't as much gold stored as previously thought?

One other question, How many other countries are now going to ask for their gold back from the U.S., now that Germany and Switzerland are standing up and asking for it?


Yep, life is getting more and more interesting. I think I am going to need popcorn for watching this situation going down. It will be better than any dramatic movie ever made.......

:D:D

[smoke n mirrors]

.

http://sherriequestioningall.blogspot.com/2012/03/both-germany-and-switzerland-want-their.html

THURSDAY, MARCH 8, 2012

Both Germany and Switzerland want their Gold Back from N.Y. Fed. The U.S. has gone to War over this type of thing. What will they do now, since there is no Gold?

Very interesting post. :D


Original Article: http://www.scribd.com/doc/84386180/Swiss-Initiative

Bern / Switzerland: Press conferece, 20th of september 2011


“Gold Initiative”: A Swiss Initiative to Secure the Swiss National Bank’s Gold Reserves


Luzi Stamm, member of the Swiss parliament, Baden Switzerland


Today, four members of the Swiss parliament present this “GoldInitiative” for the purpose of securing the Swiss National Bank’s gold reserves. In the coming months, the goal of the initiative committee will be to collect 100’000 signa - tures among the Swiss population. The Swiss people will then be able to vote on the initiative, which stipulates:


- The gold of the Swiss National Bank must be stored physically in Switzerland


- The Swiss National Bank does not have the right to sell its gold reserves.


- The Swiss National Bank must hold at least twenty percent (20%) of its total assets in gold


In an arguably irresponsible move, the United States Federal Reserve and the European Union (with the European Central Bank ECB) are in the process of a de facto devaluation of their respective currencies, by printing tremendous amounts of Dollars and Euros. These actions strongly affect the Swiss National Bank, as the Swiss franc runs the risk of being devaluated as well.


Until ten years ago, the gold reserves of the Swiss National Bank were historically regarded as the “property of the Swiss people” which could not be sold. But in the last decade the Swiss National Bank has changed this policy and sold more than 50 percent of its gold reserves. To a very large extent, over the last two years this has been in order to buy foreign currencies

The authors of this initiative believe that selling this gold was a clear mistake. Neither the central bank, nor the politicians should have the right to sell the “people’s property”. If the initiative is accepted, this would back up a portion of the Swiss Franc with physical gold. It would also force the Swiss National Bank to reveal the location where the gold is stored


Reason dictates that transparency, a certain percentage of physical gold, and a gold backed currency which does not devalue are the principles which should be followed by all the central banks around the world. In this, the Swiss National Bank should serve as an example to others.

Nationalrat Luzi Stamm

[godner]

Its definitely a sign. You are to relinquish all your money to Godner right away.
That sounds like an excellent fiscal policy :D

[domathy]

Just realised my friend needs to provide copy of passport and utility bill if ordering over 10k. But she doesnt have a utility bill as bills are all included where she rents and not sure if its a good idea to register anyway.

[icke_is_right]

Just realised my friend needs to provide copy of passport and utility bill if ordering over 10k. But she doesnt have a utility bill as bills are all included where she rents and not sure if its a good idea to register anyway.

Registering to buy gold if purchases are over £5k in one year has always been necessary. This would be a new rule which I've never heard of concerning silver. Therefore, please show us this information.

If you pass between Germany and other EU countries, you are obliged (by their BS) to inform them if you are carrying over E10k cash, when they ask you. You will get bollocked, if they find stuff, that you haven't 'declared'. Even carrying over 20 litres spare fuel in Germany is fineable........I watch TV here on this 'Zoll' people (Customs people). You wouldn't believe the shit that they manage to tax on! I'll leave it like that, as my interpretation of what Philhamonica face values, etc., would be as clued up as your are now. This is what is reported.

The best is the customs office at the top of a mountain between Germany and Switzerland. (Switzerland where things are tax free). These guys apprehend skiers who've come up on the cable car and ski into German territory (or some other EU territory). So, they look for people with fair sized rucksacks and ski after them. The people then get taxed/fined left right and centre for goods that they can't provide receipts for. Makes me sick. These customs guys are going further, everywhere, apprehending people, not even coming from other countries...............We all are aware of these sorts of things.

This is the reason, that, though we know this is all bullshit, this is the reality of what goes on. TV and formalities have a different level here in Germany and things are much more organized. I see this and hence my warnings about being 'clued up' about what you can do and what, you'll have probs with.

Ate wild garlic in the forest yesterday also know as 'Ramsons'. Ate it raw and cooked. Both flavours were out of this world and I think that lightly cooked in the camp fire (wrapped in foil) for a few minutes made this veg, the most wonderful, I've ever tasted. I generally eat raw vegan, so cooked veg is a happy compromise that I enjoy. Spring is here and the free, non GM and non chemical season, wild season is revving up. Yippee! I see green shoots everywhere, but none in the economy.

[domathy]

That sounds like an excellent fiscal policy :D

I thought you'd like it :)

Registering to buy gold if purchases are over £5k in one year has always been necessary. This would be a new rule which I've never heard of concerning silver. Therefore, please show us this information.

If you pass between Germany and other EU countries, you are obliged (by their BS) to inform them if you are carrying over E10k cash, when they ask you. You will get bollocked, if they find stuff, that you haven't 'declared'. Even carrying over 20 litres spare fuel in Germany is fineable........I watch TV here on this 'Zoll' people (Customs people). You wouldn't believe the shit that they manage to tax on! I'll leave it like that, as my interpretation of what Philhamonica face values, etc., would be as clued up as your are now. This is what is reported.

The best is the customs office at the top of a mountain between Germany and Switzerland. (Switzerland where things are tax free). These guys apprehend skiers who've come up on the cable car and ski into German territory (or some other EU territory). So, they look for people with fair sized rucksacks and ski after them. The people then get taxed/fined left right and centre for goods that they can't provide receipts for. Makes me sick. These customs guys are going further, everywhere, apprehending people, not even coming from other countries...............We all are aware of these sorts of things.

This is the reason, that, though we know this is all bullshit, this is the reality of what goes on. TV and formalities have a different level here in Germany and things are much more organized. I see this and hence my warnings about being 'clued up' about what you can do and what, you'll have probs with.

Ate wild garlic in the forest yesterday also know as 'Ramsons'. Ate it raw and cooked. Both flavours were out of this world and I think that lightly cooked in the camp fire (wrapped in foil) for a few minutes made this veg, the most wonderful, I've ever tasted. I generally eat raw vegan, so cooked veg is a happy compromise that I enjoy. Spring is here and the free, non GM and non chemical season, wild season is revving up. Yippee! I see green shoots everywhere, but none in the economy.


No, youre right. The order totalled £47k, but when i tried to lock in the order, a message appeared telling me i was £7k over my £10k limit. I was confused as thought surely if my limit was £10k then surely id exceeded it by £37k. I should have realsied as the 500g of gold was £17k (and everything else in the order was silver) so i should have figured that out on the spot but just figured it was a glitch in the calculation or something at their end. So yes, it seems the silver wasnt the issue. (anyway, it seems the limit is £10k if i remember things correctly)

If id known that, we would have bought the silver seperately, and done the gold a different way - but its too late as we posted documents off today (still, not my identity so could be worse i suppose). Is it terrible to be registered? Maybe its just a formality, or does it get passed on to UK govt?
Its my fault for not reading this thread properly. I figured if i got too much into the details that I might talk myself out of investing, or just procrastinate
for ages (worrying about the risks etc) so just wanted to jump in the deep end, and then learn to swim once im in. Stupid really as ive made mistakes already which could have been avoided, but at least my foot is in the door and I dont feel stressed about buying metals now - in for a penny, in for a pound as they say :D btw the lady at coininvest is lovely.....and she makes the german accent sound dead sexy too ;)

Sounds like theyre into some heavy tax rape over there - love the image of the James bond style chase on skis, just to tax someones lunch and spare socks.

I decided to deal with CID anyway so its not an issue, although smuggling is good fun :p (But thanks for the heads up on the Zoll people)
And yeah, you can invit me for dinner any day :D

[icke_is_right]

I thought you'd like it :)




No, youre right. The order totalled £47k, but when i tried to lock in the order, a message appeared telling me i was £7k over my £10k limit. I was confused as thought surely if my limit was £10k then surely id exceeded it by £37k. I should have realsied as the 500g of gold was £17k (and everything else in the order was silver) so i should have figured that out on the spot but just figured it was a glitch in the calculation or something at their end. So yes, it seems the silver wasnt the issue. (anyway, it seems the limit is £10k if i remember things correctly)

If id known that, we would have bought the silver seperately, and done the gold a different way - but its too late as we posted documents off today (still, not my identity so could be worse i suppose). Is it terrible to be registered? Maybe its just a formality, or does it get passed on to UK govt?
Its my fault for not reading this thread properly. I figured if i got too much into the details that I might talk myself out of investing, or just procrastinate
for ages (worrying about the risks etc) so just wanted to jump in the deep end, and then learn to swim once im in. Stupid really as ive made mistakes already which could have been avoided, but at least my foot is in the door and I dont feel stressed about buying metals now - in for a penny, in for a pound as they say :D btw the lady at coininvest is lovely.....and she makes the german accent sound dead sexy too ;)

Sounds like theyre into some heavy tax rape over there - love the image of the James bond style chase on skis, just to tax someones lunch and spare socks.

I decided to deal with CID anyway so its not an issue, although smuggling is good fun :p (But thanks for the heads up on the Zoll people)
And yeah, you can invit me for dinner any day :D

Domathy, I always encourage serious people to ask questions as a way of making sure that they are confident, clued up and fully sure up as to what and why they are doing something. There is a lot to think about. The thread is too big to go through now but I would expect people to read Mike Maloney's book before making a big purchase. You are far more clued up than I was, when I first started buying.

No, I don't believe that there is much wrong in being registered. You've disposed of it if anyone asks on wild food foraging expeditions!

Now, watch your thoughts, relax and enjoy life. They deed is done. They are printing money like no tomorrow. This isn't investment, more insurance.

CID are reliable for delivery of bullion. However, I don't recommend selling back to them. That nice lady told me, that if I wasn't happy with their buying back arrangements, to sell somewhere else. Now, bearing in mind I bought many tens of kg of silver from them, I view such comments as totally unbusinesslike. So, in short, I recommend no one to sell back to these people because their system for doing so, is not up to scratch.

They should seriously export some of the German TV, you just couldn't believe some of it and what goes on. Of course they get loads of UK TV here especially from the BBC. I always wonder, how the BBC have got away with their licensing scam and selling the same products that Brits pay for, abroad, worldwide on a massive scale.

Anyway, it's good to be organised. If you can make it to a forest in Germany somewhere I'm like a little kid at Christmas each time I do something new. Lol. A system of fresh, live unadulterated food, away from marauders, non GM and free, only came about through my investigation of health and diet over the last 9 months and finding out what we best function on. Can't wait for those stinging nettles to get a little bigger!

[geewhizz]

Domathy, I always encourage serious people to ask questions as a way of making sure that they are confident, clued up and fully sure up as to what and why they are doing something. There is a lot to think about. The thread is too big to go through now but I would expect people to read Mike Maloney's book before making a big purchase. You are far more clued up than I was, when I first started buying.

No, I don't believe that there is much wrong in being registered. You've disposed of it if anyone asks on wild food foraging expeditions!

Now, watch your thoughts, relax and enjoy life. They deed is done. They are printing money like no tomorrow. This isn't investment, more insurance.

CID are reliable for delivery of bullion. However, I don't recommend selling back to them. That nice lady told me, that if I wasn't happy with their buying back arrangements, to sell somewhere else. Now, bearing in mind I bought many tens of kg of silver from them, I view such comments as totally unbusinesslike. So, in short, I recommend no one to sell back to these people because their system for doing so, is not up to scratch.

They should seriously export some of the German TV, you just couldn't believe some of it and what goes on. Of course they get loads of UK TV here especially from the BBC. I always wonder, how the BBC have got away with their licensing scam and selling the same products that Brits pay for, abroad, worldwide on a massive scale.

Anyway, it's good to be organised. If you can make it to a forest in Germany somewhere I'm like a little kid at Christmas each time I do something new. Lol. A system of fresh, live unadulterated food, away from marauders, non GM and free, only came about through my investigation of health and diet over the last 9 months and finding out what we best function on. Can't wait for those stinging nettles to get a little bigger!

Totally agree.

[domathy]

Domathy, I always encourage serious people to ask questions as a way of making sure that they are confident, clued up and fully sure up as to what and why they are doing something. There is a lot to think about. The thread is too big to go through now but I would expect people to read Mike Maloney's book before making a big purchase. You are far more clued up than I was, when I first started buying.

No, I don't believe that there is much wrong in being registered. You've disposed of it if anyone asks on wild food foraging expeditions!

Now, watch your thoughts, relax and enjoy life. They deed is done. They are printing money like no tomorrow. This isn't investment, more insurance.

CID are reliable for delivery of bullion. However, I don't recommend selling back to them. That nice lady told me, that if I wasn't happy with their buying back arrangements, to sell somewhere else. Now, bearing in mind I bought many tens of kg of silver from them, I view such comments as totally unbusinesslike. So, in short, I recommend no one to sell back to these people because their system for doing so, is not up to scratch.

They should seriously export some of the German TV, you just couldn't believe some of it and what goes on. Of course they get loads of UK TV here especially from the BBC. I always wonder, how the BBC have got away with their licensing scam and selling the same products that Brits pay for, abroad, worldwide on a massive scale.

Anyway, it's good to be organised. If you can make it to a forest in Germany somewhere I'm like a little kid at Christmas each time I do something new. Lol. A system of fresh, live unadulterated food, away from marauders, non GM and free, only came about through my investigation of health and diet over the last 9 months and finding out what we best function on. Can't wait for those stinging nettles to get a little bigger!

Yes, it would be good to know why im buying metals, but Im sure ill get to the bottom of that soon :p atm, i just see it as insurance, as you say, and if it grows in value then thats a bonus. Either way im sure my little collection will come in handy someday. I dont like banks, and cash has the queens face on it which im sure is not good feng-shui to have round the house (not to mention the other issues with cash), so metal seems an okay option by comparison at very least.

If they ask, we spent in on 'crack&smack party pack' ;)

So are you suggesting the lady was only being nice to me as I was spending a lot? :D Still, nice to have good customer service for a change (even if its only if theyre taking your money)

Didnt know that about the tv licence, but yeah that does seem funny how they can justify the license fee.

Sounds like youre living the life over there! Ill look you up if im in the area or travelling.

So, viamat have quoted £820 to ship. A flight would cost £300 return, plus E50 excess baggage. So thats an option, but would you travel on a plane with this much silver/gold? I mean, is it possible/likely the bags could get nicked?

[icke_is_right]

If they ask, we spent in on 'crack&smack party pack' ;)

So are you suggesting the lady was only being nice to me as I was spending a lot? :D Still, nice to have good customer service for a change (even if its only if theyre taking your money)

Sounds like youre living the life over there! Ill look you up if im in the area or travelling.

So, viamat have quoted £820 to ship. A flight would cost £300 return, plus E50 excess baggage. So thats an option, but would you travel on a plane with this much silver/gold? I mean, is it possible/likely the bags could get nicked?

Yup the crack and smack party pack always makes me laugh.

The forest over here is regulated but there is lot's of it, so no hassles yet. That's what I like about Germany, out of the town here in the north, there is hardly anyone around.

I'm allergic to their system, so I opt to drive, even though I hate driving. I honestly can't stand the BS at the airports and would only undergo that for a longhaul flight. Yes, judging by Chapel Corby (not sure of the spelling) I don't trust baggage handlers. In fact, talking of 'universal consciousness', there seems to be an understanding amongst baggage handlers, that they try to break, destroy, loose or disrupt your baggage in some sort of way. (Every time I see baggage coming off a plane, I always think of 'tossing the caber) Lol.

[rainbowdear]

I am about to make a financial transaction.
if i make money out of this, i'll vote David Icle at the next election.:D

[wake_up_bomb]

CID are reliable for delivery of bullion. However, I don't recommend selling back to them.May I ask why? Also, who would you recommend selling to if not them?

[magritte]

I am curious.

Why do people buy bullion as opposed to useful things like cutlery etc?

Ok maybe not gold but silver anyway.

I have bought loads of silver items below thier current scrap value.

[icke_is_right]

May I ask why? Also, who would you recommend selling to if not them?

This is one I don't have the answer to I'm afraid. I use a dealer in Germany who are very good. I would hope that most of you are able to sell privately, through newspaper advert or something similar. The costs involved in ebay are at levels that the mafia of the past could have only dreamed of.

I also hope that some sort of network is set up for people with bullion, in order for them to sell it safely and reliably.

Selling back to a dealer in the UK means loosing a lot of potential. OK you don't want people coming to your house. My only idea at them moment is to go through someone like a solicitor, who will deal with a larger transaction, so trust/safty of the buyer and seller are assured.

[mace]

My only idea at them moment is to go through someone like a solicitor, who will deal with a larger transaction, so trust/safty of the buyer and seller are assured.

But then the solicitor would take a cut. For nothing.

I'm sure a few people have had positive dealings with a few companies and posted in here about it... :)

[domathy]

Yup the crack and smack party pack always makes me laugh.

The forest over here is regulated but there is lot's of it, so no hassles yet. That's what I like about Germany, out of the town here in the north, there is hardly anyone around.

I'm allergic to their system, so I opt to drive, even though I hate driving. I honestly can't stand the BS at the airports and would only undergo that for a longhaul flight. Yes, judging by Chapel Corby (not sure of the spelling) I don't trust baggage handlers. In fact, talking of 'universal consciousness', there seems to be an understanding amongst baggage handlers, that they try to break, destroy, loose or disrupt your baggage in some sort of way. (Every time I see baggage coming off a plane, I always think of 'tossing the caber) Lol.

Decided to go with viamat in the end. The final quote was £720 so went for it.

I did some basic stock market training with WIN investing which im sure youve heard of, and seem to remember that when a chart does what gold is doing atm, that it normally bombs instead of going back up. Do you think this is right, or is it all to scare people into selling?

[icke_is_right]

Decided to go with viamat in the end. The final quote was £720 so went for it.

I did some basic stock market training with WIN investing which im sure youve heard of, and seem to remember that when a chart does what gold is doing atm, that it normally bombs instead of going back up. Do you think this is right, or is it all to scare people into selling?

The charting has validity very long term. Since the markets are manipulated the prices are sent toward or through their important moving averages, to trigger selling by computer model traders and funds. Charting is real in unmanipulated markets.

[icke_is_right]

But then the solicitor would take a cut. For nothing.

I'm sure a few people have had positive dealings with a few companies and posted in here about it... :)

I dislike solicitors too and have had extremely bad experiences with them. However, in this case, they'd be taking your directions and just handling a sale. I don't think processing funds eg £100k, then insuring that the buyer got the correct and valued product, is a cut for nothing. The alternative is to deal with people yourself at your home or other location and wait for funds to clear. Perhaps at a bank with a safety deposit box. Just a suggestion.

[icke_is_right]

I did some basic stock market training with WIN investing which im sure youve heard of, and seem to remember that when a chart does what gold is doing atm, that it normally bombs instead of going back up. Do you think this is right, or is it all to scare people into selling?

There is more to it that I stated yesterday. Here is Trader Dan's view. As always, more information immerges as time goes by:

Norcini - Rough Day for Gold & Silver, But Here’s Good News

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2012/3/14_Norcini_-_Rough_Day_for_Gold_%26_Silver%2C_But_Heres_Good_N ews.html

After making purchases, there is generally a threshold of 'self appraisal'. It might be a good idea to try and observe such thoughts as a way of finding what you like in life. As you probably know another E1 Trillion has been pumped into the EU, this is going to infinity, just like the people I follow have been saying for years:

Adrian Douglas (no longer very active), James Turk, Bob Chapman, Jim Sinclair and Mike Maloney. I try to remind people that for years we've had the 'deflation debate'. Most of that has now gone, it was always about 'getting things right' and keeping it simple. So many were convinced about mass deflation. Deflation has only occured in some products.

We need to see an end to paper trading................

[geewhizz]

Platinum now more expensive than gold as of today.

Back to the old days

[tinyint]

I don't know if this is genuine, but the original source on CFTC has been deleted.

JPMorgan whistleblower

Hello, I am a current JPMorgan Chase employee. This is an open letter to all commissioners and regulators. I am emailing you today b/c I know of insider information that will be damning at best for JPMorgan Chase. I have decided to play the role of whistleblower b/c I no longer have faith and belief that what we are doing for society is bringing value to people.



Dear CFTC Staff,

Hello, I am a current JPMorgan Chase employee. This is an open letter to all commissioners and regulators. I am emailing you today b/c I know of insider information that will be damning at best for JPMorgan Chase. I have decided to play the role of whistleblower b/c I no longer have faith and belief that what we are doing for society is bringing value to people. I am now under the opinion that we are actually putting hard working Americans unaware of what lays ahead at extreme market risk. This risk is unnecessary and will lead to wide-scale market collapse if not handled properly. With the release of Mr. Smith’s open letter to Goldman, I too would like to set the record straight for JPM as well. I have seen the disruptive behavior of superiors and no longer can say that I look up to employees at the ED/MD level here at JPM. Their smug exuberance and arrogance permeates the air just as pungently as rotting vegetables. They all know too well of the backdoor crony connections they share intimately with elected officials and with other institutions. It is apparent in everything they do, from the meager attempts to manipulate LIBOR, therefore controlling how almost all derivatives are priced to the inherit and fraudulent commodities manipulation. They too may have one day stood for something in the past in the client-employee relationship. Does anyone in today’s market really care about the protection of their client? From the ruthless and scandalous treatment of MF Global client asset funds to the excessive bonuses paid by companies with burgeoning liabilities. Yes, we at JPMorgan that are in the know are fearful of a cascading credit event being triggered in Greece as they have hidden derivatives in excess of $1 Trillion USD. We at JPMorgan own enough of these through counterparty risk and outright prop trading that our entire IB EDG space could be annihilated within a few short days. The last ten years has been market by inflexion point after inflexion point with the most notable coming in 2008 after the acquisition of Bear.

I wish to remain anonymous as of now as fear of termination mounts from what I am about to reveal. Robert Gottlieb is not my real name; however he is a trader that is involved in a lawsuit for manipulative trading while working with JPMorgan Chase. He was acquired during our Bear Stearns acquisition and is known to be the notorious person shorting in the silver future market from his trading space, along with Blythe Masters, his IB Global boss. However, with that said, we are manipulating the silver futures market and playing a smaller (but still massively manipulative) role in manipulating the gold futures market. We have a little over a 25% (give or take a percentage) position in the short market for silver futures and by your definition this denotes a larger position than for speculative purposes or for hedging and is beyond the line of manipulation.

On a side note, I do not work directly with accounts that would have been directly impacted by the MF Global fiasco but I have heard through other colleagues that we have involvement in the hiding of client assets from MF Global. This is another fraudulent effort on our part and constitutes theft. I urge you to forward that part of the investigation on to the respective authorities.

There is something else that you may find strange. During month-end December, we were all told by our managers that this was going to be a dismal year in terms of earnings and that we should not expect any bonuses or pay raises. Then come mid-late January it is made known that everyone received a pay raise and/or bonus, which is interesting b/c just a few weeks ago we were told that this was not likely and expected to be paid nothing in addition to base salary. January is right around the time we started increasing our short positions quite significantly again and this most recent crash in gold and silver during Bernanke's speech on February 29th is of notable importance, as we along with 4 other major institutions, orchestrated the violent $100 drop in Gold and subsequent drops in silver.

As regulators of the free people of this country, I ask you to uphold the most important job in the world right now. That job is judge and overseer of all that is justice in the most sensitive of commodity markets. There are many middle-income people that invest in the physical assets of silver, gold, as well as mining stocks that are being financially impacted in a negative way b/c of our unscrupulous shorts in the precious metals commodity sector. If you read the COT with intent you will find that commercials (even though we have no business being in the commercial sector, which should be reserved for companies that truly produce the metal) are net short by a long shot in not only silver, but gold.

It is rather surprising that what should be well known liabilities on our balance sheet have not erupted into wider scale scrutinization. I call all honest and courageous JPMorgan employees to step up and fight the cronyism and wide-scale manipulation by reporting the truth. We are only helping reality come to light therefore allowing a real valuation of our banking industry which will give investors a chance to properly adjust without being totally wiped out. I will be contacting a lawyer shortly about this matter, as I believe no other whistleblower at JPMorgan has come forward yet. Our deepest secrets lie within the hands of honest employees and can be revealed through honest regulators that are willing to take a look inside one of America's best kept secrets. Please do not allow this to turn into another Enron.

Kind Regards,
-The 1st Whistleblower of Many

http://www.webcompact.net/index.php/news/20929-jpmorgan-whistleblower

[h2pogo]

Bob Chapman mentions the JPM whistle blower about 30mins in, Says he isnt sure but seems to think genuine..

Bob Chapman - Gold Radio Cafe March 16 2012 - YouTube

[icke_is_right]

I see this sort of thing (if genuine) as rather short sighted. There is no point petitioning your abuser with letters. Stronger action is necessary. However, it's good news and gives the situation a bit more air time.

Dare I mention the VAT on platinum?

[domathy]

The charting has validity very long term. Since the markets are manipulated the prices are sent toward or through their important moving averages, to trigger selling by computer model traders and funds. Charting is real in unmanipulated markets.

I think I know what youre saying. The only stuff I really remember from the WIN course is some of the visual patterns which can be used to make lots of small trades safely.

For instance when you see this pattern, you know things are going to go down:

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/5848/downup.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/845/downup.png/)

Or when you see this pattern (ie where silver is atm) you know things are going to go up.
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/7109/77450811.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/837/77450811.png/)



I cant remember all the logic behind it, but there were loads of other patterns like 'cup and handle' (because the chart takes the shape of a cup with a handle) and I wish I could remember the others.

if you look at the 3 year chart for silver here http://www.coininvestdirect.com/en/silver_coins/vienna-philharmonic-1oz-silver-2012.html you will see the pattern from my top picture emerging, and if the WIN stuff is right, the price may drop to around £20.92 as in 29th Sept 2011, before climbing and continuing on it way ever upward. Here's hoping anyway :D

P.S - I decided now to go to Germany in person. They say not to make travel arrangements before being given a release date, but in your experience, how long does it take for them to give a release/collection date once funds have cleared? Thanks.

[tinyint]

I see this sort of thing (if genuine) as rather short sighted. There is no point petitioning your abuser with letters. Stronger action is necessary. However, it's good news and gives the situation a bit more air time.

Dare I mention the VAT on platinum?

Yes, people need to urgently realize the whole "free market" is rigged, a scam, command economy like.

It is simply a huge casino, the bank always wins.

[mace]

P.S - I decided now to go to Germany in person. They say not to make travel arrangements before being given a release date, but in your experience, how long does it take for them to give a release/collection date once funds have cleared? Thanks.

About a week if I recall mate :)

[icke_is_right]

I think I know what youre saying. The only stuff I really remember from the WIN course is some of the visual patterns which can be used to make lots of small trades safely.

For instance when you see this pattern, you know things are going to go down:

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/5848/downup.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/845/downup.png/)

Or when you see this pattern (ie where silver is atm) you know things are going to go up.
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/7109/77450811.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/837/77450811.png/)





I cant remember all the logic behind it, but there were loads of other patterns like 'cup and handle' (because the chart takes the shape of a cup with a handle) and I wish I could remember the others.

if you look at the 3 year chart for silver here http://www.coininvestdirect.com/en/silver_coins/vienna-philharmonic-1oz-silver-2012.html you will see the pattern from my top picture emerging, and if the WIN stuff is right, the price may drop to around £20.92 as in 29th Sept 2011, before climbing and continuing on it way ever upward. Here's hoping anyway :D

P.S - I decided now to go to Germany in person. They say not to make travel arrangements before being given a release date, but in your experience, how long does it take for them to give a release/collection date once funds have cleared? Thanks.

With the manipulation, they know that a lot of people look at charts. Hence, it could look as if it will plummet. Charting in invalid long term in manipulated markets. Charts give you an idea of what has happened, it's best to know what's going on in the market for your ultimate decision. What I await, is the departure from Comex paper pricing. Only then, I feel will we have anything like true representations of price. They've just pumped trillions into the market, the latest drops were blatant. Here is the dithering Ted Butler, who doesn't know much about the way the world works. I haven't listened to the interview yet:

http://www.financialsense.com/financial-sense-newshour/big-picture/2012/03/17/02/ted-butler/how-the-silver-manipulation-scheme-works

Good luck driving to Germany.

[domathy]

About a week if I recall mate :)

thanks, thats what I thought :)

With the manipulation, they know that a lot of people look at charts. Hence, it could look as if it will plummet. Charting in invalid long term in manipulated markets. Charts give you an idea of what has happened, it's best to know what's going on in the market for your ultimate decision. What I await, is the departure from Comex paper pricing. Only then, I feel will we have anything like true representations of price. They've just pumped trillions into the market, the latest drops were blatant. Here is the dithering Ted Butler, who doesn't know much about the way the world works. I haven't listened to the interview yet:

http://www.financialsense.com/financial-sense-newshour/big-picture/2012/03/17/02/ted-butler/how-the-silver-manipulation-scheme-works

Good luck driving to Germany.

I understand, and what I mean is it looks like (according to my shitty training) that silver is about to hit the last low before going back up again (I may be wrong but its fun to guess :D) and Im just glad i bought at quite a good time.

[indolering]

thanks, thats what I thought :)



I understand, and what I mean is it looks like (according to my shitty training) that silver is about to hit the last low before going back up again (I may be wrong but its fun to guess :D) and Im just glad i bought at quite a good time.

Interesting analysis of the 30 year silver trail, what lies ahead, and even the 'cup' graph you mentioned.

http://youtu.be/0fhPrheEgck

[domathy]

Interesting analysis of the 30 year silver trail, what lies ahead, and even the 'cup' graph you mentioned.

http://youtu.be/0fhPrheEgck

Thats very interesting, I hadnt seen a 30 yr chart before and now can see it as a massive cup and handle. I think, based on the most recent pattern (as seen in my homemade pic with the green line) that the channel will break next week and prices will recover quickly and keep going up (wow, i almost sound like i know what im talking about :p). Anyway, im putting in one more purchase in a few days (when i think its at its lowest point) and then more in the following weeks before prices go up too far, at which point ill start work on my luxury underground bunker :D

Thanks for the vid!

[indolering]

Thats very interesting, I hadnt seen a 30 yr chart before and now can see it as a massive cup and handle. I think, based on the most recent pattern (as seen in my homemade pic with the green line) that the channel will break next week and prices will recover quickly and keep going up (wow, i almost sound like i know what im talking about :p). Anyway, im putting in one more purchase in a few days (when i think its at its lowest point) and then more in the following weeks before prices go up too far, at which point ill start work on my luxury underground bunker :D

Thanks for the vid!

I just bought more silver and I'm buying more next week. I'm not waiting for anything, I still have too much currency at risk. I'm also acquiring some more preparedness supplies and learning as much as I can. I'm trying not to get too worked up about our future, but things just seem really ominous lately...I don't want to be caught up in the madness when a few weeks of prep could avoid the worst of it.

[icke_is_right]

If you listen to the Ted Butler interview, he details the levels that they look to take out ie 50 day MA.

http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=%24silver

The longer term the pattern, the more valid the pattern is as with this 30 year cup and handle.

Sorry but I'm not into charting in this manipulated market and I prefer to not go into the fine detail, that I've found over the years, usually is pointless. Been there and done that. However, things like the 30 year cup and handle are very interesting and should be noted.

I have worked extensively on indecies and the timing of the stock markets. With what I have studied and observed, I have the understanding of a system that will provide good timing for such markets if mixed with fundamentals. Therefore, I'm confident that I could time buys long term better than most. However, one goes up against the manipulation in such markets as well, for which I'm not confident in unravelling. I prefer KISS principle. Extra thought isn't going to change the outcome. I believe and continue to believe that this is a game of musical chairs. I sat down in reasonably good time.

[domathy]

If you listen to the Ted Butler interview, he details the levels that they look to take out ie 50 day MA.

http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=%24silver

The longer term the pattern, the more valid the pattern is as with this 30 year cup and handle.

Sorry but I'm not into charting in this manipulated market and I prefer to not go into the fine detail, that I've found over the years, usually is pointless. Been there and done that. However, things like the 30 year cup and handle are very interesting and should be noted.

I have worked extensively on indecies and the timing of the stock markets. With what I have studied and observed, I have the understanding of a system that will provide good timing for such markets if mixed with fundamentals. Therefore, I'm confident that I could time buys long term better than most. However, one goes up against the manipulation in such markets as well, for which I'm not confident in unravelling. I prefer KISS principle. Extra thought isn't going to change the outcome. I believe and continue to believe that this is a game of musical chairs. I sat down in reasonably good time.

I'll listen to that this evening.

So, you better tell us all when to sell else you'll be in trouble :)

[domathy]

I just bought more silver and I'm buying more next week. I'm not waiting for anything, I still have too much currency at risk. I'm also acquiring some more preparedness supplies and learning as much as I can. I'm trying not to get too worked up about our future, but things just seem really ominous lately...I don't want to be caught up in the madness when a few weeks of prep could avoid the worst of it.

I know what you mean, its about finding a balance between not subscribing to fear, whilst still being realistic and being prepared. Things do seem quite heavy, more so in the USA atm.

[heartbeatsalute]

When did the Dollar Bills stop having where it said : redemable in Gold?

[icke_is_right]

When did the Dollar Bills stop having where it said : redemable in Gold?

Nixon Shock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This was the main one in the USA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard#England

More details here on the UK. It's a long history of BS......

[icke_is_right]

I'll listen to that this evening.

So, you better tell us all when to sell else you'll be in trouble :)

I've already told teacher so you can't blame me! I recommend following Mike Maloney for a time to sell. He has a team working on this. Even then, I would think that it's better to sell over a period of time, rather than in one lump.

I'm still paying medical bills etc., so what I think is best and what happens in reality are different matters.

[icke_is_right]

Bunker Hunt And 'Silver Thursday'

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/archives-bunker-hunt-and-silver-thursday



This makes a lot of sense concerning charting:

http://www.silverseek.com/article/massive-spike-price-silver-imminent



What's Really Happening with Gold and Silver in India

http://www.caseyresearch.com/cdd/whats-really-happening-gold-and-silver-india



Ellis Martin Report with Jim Sinclair and the Nuclear Economic Trigger-Breaking News

'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_irgll_wy9I'

Ellis Martin Report with Jim Sinclair and the Nuclear Economic Trigger-Breaking News - YouTube

[icke_is_right]

Lindsey Williams & Chris Waltzek - March 20, 2012

http://radio.goldseek.com/nuggets.php

I posted Williams in 'News', here it is again, if it disappears.


SILVER is The Achilles' Heel to the ENTIRE ECONOMIC SYSTEM

http://www.silverseek.com/commentary/silver-achilles-heel-entire-economic-system-video

[alisa2]

The following book the author explains why gold was chosen as the metal for money.





"Money is so important a factor in the creation of wealth that until we can have a paper currency with sufficient elasticity, not only to respond promptly to legitimate demands in every section of the country, but to return to its issuers for redemption when that demand shall cease, we can neither know what the productive powers of the nation are, nor can they be developed to their fullest extent; but we shall never have such a currency so long as the national government continues to exercise the function it has assumed of supplying the common medium of exchange. [which means NO LEGISLATION OF MONEY]


http://www.econlib.org/library/YPDBooks/Brough/brghNLM8.html#bottom




"IT may be well to explain at the outset what is meant to be conveyed by the phrase "the natural law of money." While it is true that money is a product of man's labor, and that it derives all its usefulness from the actions of men, it was not planned and brought into existence with an intelligent prevision of its nature and workings. t would be more correct to say that it [B]came into use because it possessed inherent properties which fitted it for certain services, and that men appropriated it when they felt the need of the services. This they did individually, without any concert of action, for money was circulating everywhere in the world before men even thought of making laws for its regulation. When an individual uses money, he is governed in what he does with it purely by his own interests, and he does not concern himself about what becomes of it after it passes out of his possession; thus it circulates indefinitely, impelled always by the motives and interests of individuals acting independently of each other; yet it is found to move and perform its functions with the regularity of a natural law. "

http://www.econlib.org/library/YPDBooks/Brough/brghNLM1.html#firstpage-bar

[indolering]

SILVER is The Achilles' Heel to the ENTIRE ECONOMIC SYSTEM

http://www.silverseek.com/commentary/silver-achilles-heel-entire-economic-system-video

Hard-hitting video - I especially liked that he emphasized that without freedom, wealth means nothing.

[alisa2]

Corruption of money begins and ends w/ government.

It was Abraham Lincoln who set the precedent (in a senate bill) that all money should be controlled by the government. I'll have to find that senate bill No. and when I do I'll post it here.

We will never get it right if the government (by legislation) controls or regulates it.

[paloem]

water is more valuable than gold , they just havnt realised that yet

[alisa2]

water is more valuable than gold , they just havnt realised that yet


They realize it; however. without MONEY, they control nothing. The only way to control the robber barons is to starve it of the only thing that is keeping it alive: MONEY. It doesn't need water, it doesn't need air, it doesn't need food, it doesn't need shelter. It needs only one thing: MONEY that you give it.

Starve the corporate fat cats of the only thing it needs to survive.

Store up on the only thing YOU need to survive: food and water.

All money belongs to the people, but I don't see the corporate government ever giving up that control to its rightful owner (the people) anytime soon. .

[icke_is_right]

water is more valuable than gold , they just haven't realised that yet

The inbreeds have been privatising water world wide for years. I'm sure that we all agree with the North American Indian rule, that water is sacred. So, too is our planet and our air.

No, I don't think that the way, gold and silver is mined is good either but I'm not living in an ideal world yet.

[indolering]

A bar of gold bought in the UK was found to have been drilled out and filled with tungsten. I don't imagine this is too common an occurrence, but it's well to purchase metals from reputable dealers....

http://ausbullion.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/tungsten-filled-gold-bars.html

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6638/bar3zc.jpg

[geewhizz]

A bar of gold bought in the UK was found to have been drilled out and filled with tungsten. I don't imagine this is too common an occurrence, but it's well to purchase metals from reputable dealers....

http://ausbullion.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/tungsten-filled-gold-bars.html

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6638/bar3zc.jpg

WOW!! no one is safe

[icke_is_right]

The tungsten and gold bar was a whopping 2grms underweight, so to weigh such bars seems sensible and also comparing to bars that are definitely 1kg gold, for shape etc..

www.goldline.co.uk make their own bars and they are very nice. They are metal recyclers and have their own fabrication system on site.

Coins shouldn't be a worry, as far as I know, they are too small to interfere with.

[petersy]

I'm seriously looking into this.

Why would silver be worth investing in? If the shit hit the fan, seems to me people would instinctively value gold above anything else.

Gold and silver have been real money for the last 5000 years. The problem, is that today's younger generation have never had to deal with real money - only the mickey mouse paper Monopoly money that we have floating around today.

As a child, I can still remember real silver coins being in circulation.

No fiat money system has ever worked - so don't expect any different this time.

[h2pogo]

http://www.caseyresearch.com/articles/if-gold-could-talk

I hear that you've had some worries about me. I understand. Your world is a very uncertain place right now. And when it comes to money, it looks as though your leaders don't understand some basic monetary principles, making things even more unsettling.

But I want you to know that the problems you're experiencing are actually nothing new. I've seen these monetary, fiscal, and economic difficulties many times before. And I can tell you this: you're safe with me. That's a bold proclamation, but I've provided monetary protection numerous times throughout history – too many to count, in fact. I've served all kinds of people over the centuries, from kings and counts to serfs and servants.

To put your mind at ease, let's review my core characteristics, along with some history, to show how I can protect you against the monetary danger that's likely to worsen in your near future. We'll also take a look at your peculiar set of circumstances to see how I can be of service. By the time we're done, I think you'll feel much better about my ability to help your portfolio withstand whatever is thrown its way.

Enduring Characteristics

Let's start with the basics. I have some characteristics that no other matter on Earth has…

I cannot be:

Printed (ask a miner how long it takes to find me and dig me up)
Counterfeited (you can try, but a scale will catch it every time)
Inflated (I can't be reproduced)

I cannot be destroyed by;

Fire (it takes heat at least 1945.4° F. to melt me)
Water (I don't rust or tarnish)
Time (my coins remain recognizable after a thousand years)

I don't need:

Feeding (like cattle)
Fertilizer (like corn)
Maintenance (like printing presses)

I have no:

Time limit (most metal is still in existence)
Counterparty risk (remember MF Global?)
Shelf life (I never expire)

As a metal, I am uniquely:

Malleable (I spread without cracking)
Ductile (I stretch without breaking)
Beautiful (just ask an Indian bride)

As money, I am:

Liquid (easily convertible to cash)
Portable (you can conveniently hold $50,000 in one hand)
Divisible (you can use me in tiny fractions)
Consistent (I am the same in any quantity, at any place)
Private (no one has to know you own me)

I am internationally accepted, last for thousands of years, and probably most important, you can't make any more of me.

"Gold Is Money"

You've heard that statement before – but do you know what it really means? Money is a medium of exchange and a store of value. Almost anything can be used as money, but obviously some things work better than others. It's hard to exchange things people don't want and other things don't store value well. Over thousands of years, I have emerged as the best form of money (along with silver).

The paper dollars in your wallet are technically a currency, not real money. In other words, they are a government substitute for money. The man you call Aristotle best defined the primary reasons why I'm considered money: a good form of money must be durable, divisible, consistent, convenient, and have value in and of itself.

It must be durable because you can't have your money disintegrating in your pocket or bank. That's why you don't use wheat; it can rot or be eaten by insects.

It must be divisible, which is why you don't use diamonds or artwork; they can't be split into pieces without destroying the value of the whole.

The lack of consistency is why you can't use real estate. One piece is always different from another piece.

It must be convenient, which is why you don't use other metals like lead. The coins would have to be too big to handle easily to be of sufficient value.

It must have value in and of itself. This is why you shouldn't use paper as money.

And one more thing: I can't be created out of thin air. Not even the kings and emperors who clipped and diluted gold coins used paper as money. Aristotle didn't include this in his list, but it's vital.

So you see, there's no superstition here. It's simply common sense. I am particularly good for use as money, just as aluminum is good for making aircraft, steel is good for the structures of buildings, uranium is good for fueling nuclear power plants, and paper is good for making books. If you try to make airplanes out of lead or money out of paper, you're in for a crash.

And by the way, don't fret about those who say I'm not as good an asset as an income-producing vehicle. They misunderstand my role. I'm not trying to be a stock, for example. My function is as money and a store of value, so the proper comparison is to your dollars, or what you call Treasury Bills (of similar nominal value). And here is where I excel and serve my purpose: since 1913, the US dollar has lost 96% of its purchasing power. I have lost none.

Remember, I am the only financial asset that is not simultaneously someone else's liability. I don't require the backing of any bank or government.

The History Lesson

Because I am eons old, I've observed something throughout history that you may not be aware of: government fiat currencies are a relatively new invention, and none has endured. Eventually, they have all failed. Me? I've never been defaulted on or worth zero. Remember this the next time you have any doubts about my long-term worth.

Another of my roles is to protect your purchasing power. Here are a few examples of how my purchasing power has endured:

During the time of Christ, an ounce of me purchased a Roman citizen his toga (suit), a leather belt, and a pair of sandals. Today, one ounce will still buy a good suit, a leather belt, and a pair of shoes.

In 400 BC, during the reign of King Nebuchadnezzar, some scholars reported that an ounce of me bought 350 loaves of bread. Today, an ounce still buys about 350 loaves ($1,700 divided by 350 = $4.85/loaf).

In 1979, my average price was $306.68. This bought an average-priced full-size bed. Thirty-three years later, $1,700 would still buy you a nice full-size bed (and then some).

You can rest assured that over time, I will hold my value. And when you near the end of your life, you can pass me on to your loved ones, knowing full well they will have something that cannot be devalued, debased, or destroyed.

What Color Is Your Money?

Like you, I'm concerned about the current state of fiscal and monetary affairs. It seems your government leaders have boxed themselves into a corner. They've incurred too much debt and are spending too much money. It's important that you understand some lessons from history about this kind of behavior so that you're certain of what I can do for you.

The common denominators that lead to the downfall of every fiat currency are the two big Ds: debts and deficits. With that in mind, consider the following:

Morgan Stanley reported that there is "no historical precedent" for an economy that exceeds a 250% debt-to-GDP ratio without experiencing some sort of financial crisis or high inflation. US total debt currently exceeds GDP by roughly 400%.

Detailed studies of government debt levels over the past 100 years show that debts have never been repaid (in original currency units) when they exceed 80% of GDP. US government debt will exceed 100% of GDP this year.

Investment legend Marc Faber reports that once a country's payments on debt exceed 30% of tax revenue, the currency is "done for." By some estimates, the US will hit that ratio this year.

Peter Bernholz, a leading expert on hyperinflation, states unequivocally that "hyperinflation is caused by government budget deficits." Next year's US budget deficit is projected to be $1.3 trillion.

The solution many of your leaders are pursuing is to create more currency units. Here's an updated picture of the increase in the US monetary base vs. my rise in price since 2008, when your problems starting surfacing.


The monetary base has grown 205.8%, while my price is up 65.8%. This alone implies that my price in dollars is likely to climb much higher.

This is also the reason why I'm not in a bubble, as some have tried to claim. It is your central banks and bond markets that are in a bubble. The fact that my price is rising is a warning that what your leaders are doing is unsustainable and potentially dangerous to your currency.

Think about this: the US has debt backed by debt, based on debt, dependent on debt, and leveraged with debt. You can, for example, buy a bond (i.e., lend money) on margin (i.e., with borrowed money). This is not a sound way to run financial markets.

Meanwhile, the warning bells continue to sound regarding Europe's debt crisis. In just the past 30 days:

Moody's cautioned that it may cut the triple-A status of France, Austria, and the UK; and it downgraded six other European nations including Italy, Spain, and Portugal.

Standard & Poor's cut the triple-A status of France and Austria, while Italy, Spain, Portugal, Cyprus, Malta, Slovakia, and Slovenia were downgraded.

Fitch downgraded Belgium, Cyprus, Italy, Slovenia, and Spain, and stated there was a 50% chance of further cuts in the next two years.

Standard & Poor's downgraded 34 of Italy's 37 banks.

Moody's warned just last week that it may cut the credit ratings of 17 global financial institutions and 114 European ones.

The European crisis is far from over; and the path of least resistance for politicians is to create more currency units. This action can and will have clear and direct consequences: currencies will devalue, and inflation – perhaps hyperinflation – will result.

Once again, I encourage you to use me to protect some of your wealth.

How Much Is Enough?

Given the state of your monetary system, you should accumulate me (and silver) on a regular basis. Just buy some every month and put it in a safe place. After what I've witnessed throughout history, and based on the current path your government leaders insist on pursuing, I suggest using me as your savings vehicle instead of putting dollars in a bank.

If you don't own enough of me when these fiscal troubles really accelerate, I fear you will regret it. I've warned many in the past about the dilution of nations' currencies, and those who didn't heed my warnings experienced severe financial pain. Excuses won't pay the mortgage nor feed the family when the effects of currency debasement hit your home and pocketbook.

Make sure you own enough of me to make a difference to your portfolio. This means having more than a couple coins or a few shares of GLD, the latter of which is only a proxy for my price.

How do you know if you own enough? Ask yourself:

• If inflation returns, or even hyperinflation hits…
• If the economy is flat…
• If uncertainty and fear continue around the globe…
• If stock markets languish…
• If the amount of spending from the world's governments proves futile…
• If government interference in the economy continues to increase…
• If the value of the US dollar takes a major fall…
• If the world enters a recession or depression…
• If you wonder if you have enough "safe" money…

… would you feel that you own enough of me?

Buy a sufficient amount so that as your currency continues to lose value, your portfolio won't. If you do your part, I promise I'll do mine.

Your monetary friend,

Gold

[boggumbap]

wheres a good place to store your gold and silver? and how much do you think a single person will need to get them through the collapse of money or a war?

[h2pogo]

wheres a good place to store your gold and silver?

some where secret;)

[boggumbap]

some where secret;)

Im thinking about storing mine in the bank..no idea how to go about getting insurance though never done this before! Im a newbie to all this gold/silver stuff but my gut tells me it's the way to go:)

[h2pogo]

Im thinking about storing mine in the bank..no idea how to go about getting insurance though never done this before! Im a newbie to all this gold/silver stuff but my gut tells me it's the way to go:)

I dont trust banks and dont think they need encouraging.

Goldmoney are by all accounts sound and independant of the manipulators. http://www.goldmoney.com/

I have used bullionvault but they are in with LBMA who are complicit..But i never had a problem with them.Though if the naked short scam is revealed who knows whos gold they are holding.

When i started stacking the house i rented had an unmovable safe..which was convinient.

Other wise use your imagination..it can be set in a cast, hidden in wood, sealed in a tin of paint, rendered in a wall or plastered in a picture frame
or of course burried in a hole.
Metal detectors are probarbly your worst enemy.

[blackjimmy]

I dont trust banks and dont think they need encouraging.

I agree, putting it in a bank seems kind of pointless to me. Kind of like buying a burglar alarm and then sharing the security code with all the criminals.

IMO the best weapon there is for securing PMs is secrecy.

[domathy]

Just got back from Frankfurt and can say the drive was not too bad. 5 hrs drive to Dover (slept at service station tues night) then crossing at 7:40am Weds, drove straight to Ibis hotel near Airport arrived 5pm their time. 8:30am Thurs collect goods then caught 4:30pm ferry - in bed by 10 last night.
Clear roads all the way (though plenty of jams/crashes, but always coming the other way on both trips). Only hiccup was the ferry doors broke and took 50 mins to repair, plus French customs searched my car. Trip cost about £350 in total i think. I got 160 coins for myself and because I earned a bit for doing the driving, they only cost me £17 each inc tax :D

[domathy]

If you listen to the Ted Butler interview, he details the levels that they look to take out ie 50 day MA.

http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=%24silver

The longer term the pattern, the more valid the pattern is as with this 30 year cup and handle.

Sorry but I'm not into charting in this manipulated market and I prefer to not go into the fine detail, that I've found over the years, usually is pointless. Been there and done that. However, things like the 30 year cup and handle are very interesting and should be noted.

I have worked extensively on indecies and the timing of the stock markets. With what I have studied and observed, I have the understanding of a system that will provide good timing for such markets if mixed with fundamentals. Therefore, I'm confident that I could time buys long term better than most. However, one goes up against the manipulation in such markets as well, for which I'm not confident in unravelling. I prefer KISS principle. Extra thought isn't going to change the outcome. I believe and continue to believe that this is a game of musical chairs. I sat down in reasonably good time.

I know the markets are manipulated, but the people who facilitated the course I took clearly knew what was going to happen well in advance. They were saying before 2008 that there was about to be a big crash and all had their 'puts' etc in place and said they were going to make a fortune and were trying to get us competent enough so we could do the same. They said something about a fibronocci sequence and that they could tell by looking at the charts what was going to happen well in advance. They talked about 'natural cycles' but I would say more likely that its all manipulated and built in, but as they cant see who is pulling the strings, they perceive the cycles as natural. But they knew enough to see the crash coming, and no doubt are stinking rich and probably went into PMs soon after.

[icke_is_right]

I know the markets are manipulated, but the people who facilitated the course I took clearly knew what was going to happen well in advance. They were saying before 2008 that there was about to be a big crash and all had their 'puts' etc in place and said they were going to make a fortune and were trying to get us competent enough so we could do the same. They said something about a fibronocci sequence and that they could tell by looking at the charts what was going to happen well in advance. They talked about 'natural cycles' but I would say more likely that its all manipulated and built in, but as they cant see who is pulling the strings, they perceive the cycles as natural. But they knew enough to see the crash coming, and no doubt are stinking rich and probably went into PMs soon after.

I hope that you picked up some good beer in Deutschland too!

You were asking about the metals markets and charting. The manipulators do work around charting theory to instigate their wickedness, so charting can be helpful. I don't think people should be trading silver and gold on the paper markets. This is a time to buy the real deal and sit tight.

You cannot see what's happening purely by a chart on the indecies, it's an indication. There are many other things that you can look at for indecies to help with your conclusion. How they came to their conclusions, only they know.

[icke_is_right]

http://www.agnico-eagle.com/English/Investor-Centre/Stock-Data/default.aspx?Indice=NYSE

What do you think of the 5 year chart on this favourite rec by Bob Chapman? (I have not done any research on the company). He mentioned that they have had a flood from which they'll recover. Bob thinks it's one of the best gold mine stocks in the world and people are dumping it now to a low of 3 years ago, with gold prices having risen dramatically in the last 3 years, hence a possible double discount. This is a company that I would research extensively if I was going to put money into a chart.

This is the sort of thing which I like the look of, especially when it is thought that PM mining companies, will go in the same way as they did in the 70's.

As I have said, I stick to the strat of real metal. This might be of interest.

[domathy]

I hope that you picked up some good beer in Deutschland too!

You were asking about the metals markets and charting. The manipulators do work around charting theory to instigate their wickedness, so charting can be helpful. I don't think people should be trading silver and gold on the paper markets. This is a time to buy the real deal and sit tight.

You cannot see what's happening purely by a chart on the indecies, it's an indication. There are many other things that you can look at for indecies to help with your conclusion. How they came to their conclusions, only they know.

Nein, Ich nichts trinken beer, but found some sehr gut avocado :o

Tbh, I dont really understand much of what youre saying about market stuff, all i remember is a few visual chart patterns and dont know the lingo at all. I had the opportunity to learn, but realised that paper trading wasnt for me early on. I literally know next to nothing about all this, but know physical anything is safer than paper, or numbers on a computer screen, since I relaised the elite control the money system. So im just going to hope for the best with silver and try and learn only what I need to know as I go along :D

[indolering]

Nein, Ich nichts trinken beer, but found some sehr gut avocado :o

Tbh, I dont really understand much of what youre saying about market stuff, all i remember is a few visual chart patterns and dont know the lingo at all. I had the opportunity to learn, but realised that paper trading wasnt for me early on. I literally know next to nothing about all this, but know physical anything is safer than paper, or numbers on a computer screen, since I relaised the elite control the money system. So im just going to hope for the best with silver and try and learn only what I need to know as I go along :D

The experts we respect all agree, and common sense too is on our side.

Silver is good.

[allseeinguy]

http://sgtreport.com/

[indolering]

http://sgtreport.com/

Interesting article - website looks good too. Thanks for the link.:cool:

[icke_is_right]

http://sgtreport.com/

This is rather big news in the scheme of things. The comments underneath, demonstate the difficulty a lot of people have interpreting a simple report!

[icke_is_right]

Nein, Ich nichts trinken beer, but found some sehr gut avocado :o

Tbh, I dont really understand much of what youre saying about market stuff, all i remember is a few visual chart patterns and dont know the lingo at all. I had the opportunity to learn, but realised that paper trading wasnt for me early on. I literally know next to nothing about all this, but know physical anything is safer than paper, or numbers on a computer screen, since I relaised the elite control the money system. So im just going to hope for the best with silver and try and learn only what I need to know as I go along :D

Yes, something happens when you hold that first bullion coin, especially gold, it breaks the hypnotism. Then, suddenly far more is understood and the security of holding real metal which could be around in thousands of years time, becomes more clear. I think holding tangible assets in this environment is the best and safest thing to do. As Mark Twain said: 'I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money'.

The other day, I saw a report on the sudden mania around the world's largest jackpot offering in the US. People were queuing all over, for the chance to buy a $1 ticket. I expect that this will happen with gold and silver at some point. The above, kicked off very quickly as the hysteria grows. Most people don't understand that they are almost guaranteed to waste their money on such schemes. So, with an almost guaranteeed loss, they enter a frenzy of hopes and dreams.

The evidence is becoming more wide spread. We are the first to sit down in this game of musical chairs. The soon to be hysterical masses, are still oblivious. When they suddenly become aware of the threat, they will do almost anything to rectify the situation. This is the way that markets often work.

[blackjimmy]

Yes, something happens when you hold that first bullion coin, especially gold, it breaks the hypnotism. Then, suddenly far more is understood and the security of holding real metal which could be around in thousands of years time, becomes more clear. I think holding tangible assets in this environment is the best and safest thing to do. As Mark Twain said: 'I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money'.

The other day, I saw a report on the sudden mania around the world's largest jackpot offering in the US. People were queuing all over, for the chance to buy a $1 ticket. I expect that this will happen with gold and silver at some point. The above, kicked off very quickly as the hysteria grows. Most people don't understand that they are almost guaranteed to waste their money on such schemes. So, with an almost guaranteeed loss, they enter a frenzy of hopes and dreams.

The evidence is becoming more wide spread. We are the first to sit down in this game of musical chairs. The soon to be hysterical masses, are still oblivious. When they suddenly become aware of the threat, they will do almost anything to rectify the situation. This is the way that markets often work.

It has been interesting observing the semi-mania that has caused all the queuing at the fuel stations here in the UK. It wasn't even a strike, it was just the rumour of a strike, and people are having to wait an hour to fill up. Things turn ugly pretty quickly when people get scared. I am expecting that there will be a crazy mania in the rush to buy gold and silver, but like mike maloney says by then it will already be too late.. the herd always rushes in at the end and gets slaughtered.

It has been a bit of a lesson for me to see this kind of crowd movement happen first hand, as I only have a vague memory of the fuel strikes about 10 years ago. It's not hard to imagine the same thing happening again. Think I'll buy some more sacks of rice ;)

[allseeinguy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0dODJGm3dM

they can't print silver and gold unlike fiat, short video showing how much work goes into the mining process.

[indolering]

.
From the DI headlines page:

A Cashless Society May Be Closer Than Most People Would Ever Dare To Imagine



http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/a-cashless-society-may-be-closer-than-most-people-would-ever-dare-to-imagine

Most people think of a cashless society as something that is way off in the distant future. Unfortunately, that is simply not the case. The truth is that a cashless society is much closer than most people would ever dare to imagine. To a large degree, the transition to a cashless society is being done voluntarily. Today, only 7 percent of all transactions in the United States are done with cash, and most of those transactions involve very small amounts of money. Just think about it for a moment. Where do you still use cash these days? If you buy a burger or if you purchase something at a flea market you will still use cash, but for any mid-size or large transaction the vast majority of people out there will use another form of payment. Our financial system is dramatically changing, and cash is rapidly becoming a thing of the past. We live in a digital world, and national governments and big banks are both encouraging the move away from paper currency and coins. But what would a cashless society mean for our future? Are there any dangers to such a system?

Those are very important questions, but most of the time both sides of the issue are not presented in a balanced way in the mainstream media. Instead, most mainstream news articles tend to trash cash and talk about how wonderful digital currency is...

Yes, a cashless society is coming.

Are you ready for it?

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/8660/rfid440x438.jpg

[living99]

Thanks to the sharing on this site I have begun buying from coininvest.com. Excellent company; this am thought it couldn't go lower so bought silver. Pulled in a favour with a friend in Germany to take the delivery and then will pop over for it (not driving like Domathy) to Berlin with RA .... should do a round trip for well under £100.

Get back from work and had I waited (does it matter:)) I would've saved over £100 .....

How much further will it go; similarly for Gold?

[geewhizz]

Thanks to the sharing on this site I have begun buying from coininvest.com. Excellent company; this am thought it couldn't go lower so bought silver. Pulled in a favour with a friend in Germany to take the delivery and then will pop over for it (not driving like Domathy) to Berlin with RA .... should do a round trip for well under £100.

Get back from work and had I waited (does it matter:)) I would've saved over £100 .....

How much further will it go; similarly for Gold?

People have to realise that if picking up from Germany for 7% tax, the price of silver could drop big time on their journey home so in fact they would lose out. Its a big risk as with any commodity. On the other hand it could rocket up as well so you could be in for a sweet price.

Very risky times at the moment, Gold maybe going under $1600 very soon and Silver $30

[blackjimmy]

Thanks to the sharing on this site I have begun buying from coininvest.com. Excellent company; this am thought it couldn't go lower so bought silver. Pulled in a favour with a friend in Germany to take the delivery and then will pop over for it (not driving like Domathy) to Berlin with RA .... should do a round trip for well under £100.

Get back from work and had I waited (does it matter:)) I would've saved over £100 .....

How much further will it go; similarly for Gold?


Sorry about the latest price drop guys, I think it was my fault! I just bought some more and the price always goes down straight after I buy:mad:

Seriously though, I look at it this way: Sure it's good to buy on dips etc, but if you have done your homework you will know that gold and silver are fundementally undervalued, and therefore ANY price around the current range is a bargain compared to where it's going.. and if you don't believe that or haven't done your homework then you shouldn't be buying full stop. It's a rollercoaster.

I bought my first lot on the peak last summer and measured in currency I am still way down. I prefer to measure in oz than in ££. If we didn't have to worry about the VAT issue I would buy a little every month and do the cost-averaging method. I believe the most important thing in the end will be the fact that you own physical, whether you paid +/- £100 etc for it will be immaterial. as mike maloney says right now the situation is like 100 people playing musical chairs with only 1 chair.. soon the music will stop and everyone will try and sit down.. but they will find that there is already someone sitting in the chair.. and that is the person who is holding physical gold and silver..

[magritte]

I am still keeping my current stash of silver antiques, however I bought my first new pure silver coin a few weeks back for a bit of variation.

I realised the silver content is only worth half the value I paid for atm. When are people expecting to make investments break even?

Otherwise I think I will keep to buying sterling silver antiques because they are better value and now I can dispense sugar in a classy way :D

[alisa2]

April 4th Silver Update - YouTube

Paper dollars are already pegged to gold and silver. The Feds tells you how many FRNs will buy an ounce of gold or silver. The day the Feds make public that paper dollars are worthless ($0) is the day paper dollars will buy nothing- not even gold or silver coin. A paper dollar of no value can buy nothing.

We believe paper dollars have value because they are pegged to gold and silver. Paper dollars do not need to be PEGGED to gold and silver. They need to be REDEEMED in gold and silver again.

Today's paper dollars can only PURCHASE gold and silver. The day the feds publicly announce that paper dollars are worth $0 is the day no one will be able to buy anything- not even gold and silver.

The only kind of “pegging” that needs to happen with paper dollars, is the REDEEMABLE kind.

Buy LAND with your paper dollars- it may one day be worth more to you than a gold or silver coin- as we may end up a cashless society. OR,

By grace of God, do away with money altogether.

[allseeinguy]

i'm still buying dollars from the PO for antique purposes, fetch quite a premium even now.

Gold and Silver is Gods money, you can't print it or manipulate it!

Gold went up x7 in the last decade or the toilet roll we use went down -7

Gold is the real money/currency, it is borderless, the worlds reserve currency.

[wake_up_bomb]

Buy LAND with your paper dollars- it may one day be worth more to you than a gold or silver coin- as we may end up a cashless society. OR,

By grace of God, do away with money altogether.I wouldn't disagree with this advice at all, but not everyone, by any stretch of the imagination, is in a position to do this.

[alisa2]

wake_up_bomb, it wasn't necessarily advice. More like suggestion than anything.

The reason I suggested land is because it may be more useful to you when times get rough than a safebox full of gold and silver coin.

Why silver and gold won't protect you from the economic collapse that's coming - YouTube

[indolering]

I feel land is only right if one intends to live on it or use it in some productive way - and even then, location is critical - as an investment, there's too many uncertainties involved. The PMs are superior in every way, hands down.

[wake_up_bomb]

The reason I suggested land is because it may be more useful to you when times get rough than a safebox full of gold and silver coin.I don't disagree with you at all, I'm just pointing out that not everyone is in a position to buy land.

[edelweiss pirate]

Sorry about the latest price drop guys, I think it was my fault! I just bought some more and the price always goes down straight after I buy:mad:



Funny I thought it was me. Bought a load just before Christmas and it sunk to 950!

Similar to the time I put money on Chris Boardman to win the time trail in the tour de France and his fucking chain came off just before the finish line and he lost. Or the time me and my mate put money on England to beat Portugal in the 2004 European cup quarter final, and Sol Campbell scored what looked to be the winning goal in extra time only to have it disallowed, then had to sit through the predictable England defeat on penalities.

There's a conspiracy right there! England's history of dissalowed goals in the higher stages of international football competitions.


Oh well, prices may have dropped but gold coins in particular are become more and more scarce.

I think most people who have gold are hanging onto it.

You always get a steady flow of Krugerrands on ebay but Gold Maples are rarer than rocking horse poo.

Good time to buy.

Possibly these next couple of months might be the last window for those hoping to take the last seats on the gold bus.



Who cares what happens day to day with gold.

Just as long as when the banks finally fail you'll have something in your pocket to help you get a train ticket out of the shit-zone or a bag full of food....

I don't trust the banks, I won't rely on money and I know exactly where the Illuminatis are taking this world. Straight to hell and planned collapse. Slash and burn.

Get on the gold bus before it's too late.

[domathy]

Thanks to the sharing on this site I have begun buying from coininvest.com. Excellent company; this am thought it couldn't go lower so bought silver. Pulled in a favour with a friend in Germany to take the delivery and then will pop over for it (not driving like Domathy) to Berlin with RA .... should do a round trip for well under £100.

Get back from work and had I waited (does it matter:)) I would've saved over £100 .....

How much further will it go; similarly for Gold?

Do suppose you can pick up my latest order a the same time? :D


People have to realise that if picking up from Germany for 7% tax, the price of silver could drop big time on their journey home so in fact they would lose out. Its a big risk as with any commodity. On the other hand it could rocket up as well so you could be in for a sweet price.

Very risky times at the moment, Gold maybe going under $1600 very soon and Silver $30

Even if price goes down, youre still better off if youve avoided the VAT.

I feel land is only right if one intends to live on it or use it in some productive way - and even then, location is critical - as an investment, there's too many uncertainties involved. The PMs are superior in every way, hands down.

True, I feel metal should be the first choice for insurance, and then some land in addition if its an option and the location is right. Wealth is irrelevant if all there is to buy is GM produce, and ideally i aim to be self sufficient, but still I feel its important to get foot in the door with metals first, then work towards self sufficiency asap.

[domathy]

wake_up_bomb, it wasn't necessarily advice. More like suggestion than anything.

The reason I suggested land is because it may be more useful to you when times get rough than a safebox full of gold and silver coin.

Why silver and gold won't protect you from the economic collapse that's coming - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydgMnQYtF6U)

I also think stocking up on heirloom (non GMO) seeds is a good idea, as these will be worth more than gold. I think if you have good seeds, then food growing land shouldnt be a problem, as if you have seeds and someone else has land, then you will probably be able to come to some arrangement. Seeds are next on my list i think.

[indolering]

I also think stocking up on heirloom (non GMO) seeds is a good idea, as these will be worth more than gold. I think if you have good seeds, then food growing land shouldnt be a problem, as if you have seeds and someone else has land, then you will probably be able to come to some arrangement. Seeds are next on my list i think.

Yep, I just bought some more seeds in addition to some I bought last year....

We have land here, but I need to set up a greenhouse as our weather gets a little crazy. We still need to locate a local source of water also. My Berkey water filter can purify most waters.

[indolering]

I didn't know what to expect with this video, but it's a pretty good analysis of the likelihood of confiscation. I believe only 25% of the people complied with confiscation back in 1933, despite severe penalties if prosecuted.

SBSS 18. Silver Confiscation - YouTube

Check this photo ^^

This is the cops coming to steal your stash of silver!:p:D

(Actually it's a video from the Waco massacre...:(:mad:)

[edelweiss pirate]

Yep, I just bought some more seeds in addition to some I bought last year....

We have land here, but I need to set up a greenhouse as our weather gets a little crazy. We still need to locate a local source of water also. My Berkey water filter can purify most waters.

Probably if you dig deep enough you'll hit water.

[blackjimmy]

I didn't know what to expect with this video, but it's a pretty good analysis of the likelihood of confiscation. I believe only 25% of the people complied with confiscation back in 1933, despite severe penalties if prosecuted.

SBSS 18. Silver Confiscation - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUuCIvpR814&feature=endscreen&NR=1)

Check this photo ^^

This is the cops coming to steal your stash of silver!:p:D

(Actually it's a video from the Waco massacre...:(:mad:)

If you're interested Maloney has some pretty good vids on YT about 'confiscation'... although he's quick to point at that it was 'Nationalization' not 'confiscation', as when people confiscate something they don't reimburse you for it! He also thinks that it would impossible (suicidal) for them to do the same thing in the US today because of the dollar's status as reserve currency. Basically if the US started confiscating the rest of the world would dump dollars and buy gold. I guess the rest of the world could potentially get away with it, but as you said most people wouldn't turn it in I don't think.

I think confiscation is a real but very tiny possibility so I don't really worry about it. They have the power to seize any of your assets, and the risk of being in paper at the moment is far greater than any future confiscation/nationalization of PM. imo...

[living99]

[QUOTE=domathy;1060740089]Do suppose you can pick up my latest order a the same time? :D

Ha, just flying over this week to collect mine but just under 10kg so sorry, unless its gold no can do.

Just seen that ViaMat are offering mouth wateringly expensive storage vault facilities now in Frankfurt. The minimum ship is 500 oz of silver or 10 oz of gold.
eg cheapest monthly rental is Euro 30 + account set-up fee of 50 + monthly admin charge of 12 + VAT on that of 19%.

http://goldsilver.com/article/via-mat-germany-no-vat-silver-and-gold-vault-in-europe-now-available/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Gold++Silver+Weekly+-+4+-+10+-+2012&utm_content=Gold++Silver+Weekly+-+4+-+10+-+2012+CID_0bdcafdebf9c750cf3652da1e73fb58d&utm_source=GoldSilver+Email+Marketing&utm_term=Learn+More

I can resist.

[icke_is_right]

Silver Manipulation Explained: 'High Frequency Shearing' - Mike Maloney - YouTube!

'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB_aZo5emio&feature=player_embedded#!'

[indolering]

.
4000 comments to this 'valuable' thread.

Way to go, IIR! You've done a great service to to the 'community' here and I, for one, am grateful.

Here's to a brighter future for us all....


http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1766/38841359.jpg