Other Fraternal Orders?

[unusual_suspect]

Hello to all, I have never posted in this section and I have noticed that although this is the illuminati/secret societies section it is mainly about Freemasonry.

Does anyone have any information about Rosicrucian stuff, AMORC, the Theosophical Society or the BOTA ar any Martinist Societies, is anyone here a member of any of these? If so, would anyone like to share their opinions and experiences, I would be interested to know what any Freemasons think about these groups.

Thanks for that :)

[thelonious]

Hello to all, I have never posted in this section and I have noticed that although this is the illuminati/secret societies section it is mainly about Freemasonry.

Does anyone have any information about Rosicrucian stuff, AMORC, the Theosophical Society or the BOTA ar any Martinist Societies, is anyone here a member of any of these? If so, would anyone like to share their opinions and experiences, I would be interested to know what any Freemasons think about these groups.

Thanks for that :)

I am a long-time member of BOTA, and a former associate member of O.T.O. and the Rosicrucian Fellowship (not to be confused with AMORC).

I decided to concentrate on the BOTA curriculum for several reasons. I agreed with their teachings more than those of the Rosicrucian Fellowship and O.T.O.

The Rosicrucian Fellowship has a good curriculum in general, and follows Max Heindel's teachings. While I agree with the general gist of them, I am at variance on several important points.

The O.T.O. follows the teachings of Aleister Crowley. While Crowley was himself an advanced Adept of the Rosicrucian College, his tendency to use shock value to popularize his teachings have done more harm than good, and most of his modern disciples tend to be burnt out hippies looking for a Cheap Thrill instead of True Will.

The BOTA, on the other hand, features a simple straightforward path, inculcates a high standard of ethics and morality, and sincerely assists the student in his or her Path. Based on the teachings of Dr. Paul Foster Case (a Mason and Golden Dawn Adept) and Rev. Ann Davies (Case's successor as head of the Order), this was the proper path for me personally.

Best of luck in your search. "There is no Religion higher than Truth".

[unusual_suspect]

Thanks for answering my post :). Am I correct in thinking BOTA is mainly focusing on Kabala and Tarot, I have looked at their website and asked for some information, a friend has recommended AMORC as a good starting point for the initative path, they recommend belonging to a fraternal organisation as choosing the path of a mystic can be dangerous. I am not exactly sure what they mean, can you shed any light on this?

[thelonious]

Thanks for answering my post :). Am I correct in thinking BOTA is mainly focusing on Kabala and Tarot, I have looked at their website and asked for some information, a friend has recommended AMORC as a good starting point for the initative path, they recommend belonging to a fraternal organisation as choosing the path of a mystic can be dangerous. I am not exactly sure what they mean, can you shed any light on this?

I've never dealt with AMORC personally, so I'm not sure what they might mean by that. It sounds rather odd though.

Yes, you are correct about BOTA. The headquarters of the Order in fact is called "The Temple of Tarot and holy Qabalah".

The basic idea is that the Tarot images correspond to subconscious archetypes, and represent patterns on the Qabalistic Tree of Life. By meditating on the Tarot images in a particular way, we awaken certain dormant aspects of the pysche to the higher consciousness. Through serious practice, we employ spiritual alchemy, turning the base matter of our animal selves into the gold of a Child of God.

[unusual_suspect]

I've never dealt with AMORC personally, so I'm not sure what they might mean by that. It sounds rather odd though.

Yes, you are correct about BOTA. The headquarters of the Order in fact is called "The Temple of Tarot and holy Qabalah".

The basic idea is that the Tarot images correspond to subconscious archetypes, and represent patterns on the Qabalistic Tree of Life. By meditating on the Tarot images in a particular way, we awaken certain dormant aspects of the pysche to the higher consciousness. Through serious practice, we employ spiritual alchemy, turning the base matter of our animal selves into the gold of a Child of God.

Thanks, this approach to the Tarot seems much more genuine than the fortune telling approach, so is the Tarot a tool for healing, self discovery and spiritual and psychological alchemy? I belive this to be the case with astrology.

My understanding of AMORC is that the lessons cover a variety of esoteric subject matter and the initatory process awakens psychic faculties and helps one become more congruous with ones divine nature.

In your opinion is it possible to go through this initatory alchemical process without belonging to one of these mystery schools?

[thelonious]

Thanks, this approach to the Tarot seems much more genuine than the fortune telling approach, so is the Tarot a tool for healing, self discovery and spiritual and psychological alchemy? I belive this to be the case with astrology.

I agree. There is a general consensus among occultists that the Tarot images were preserved as a deck of fortune telling cards for the purpose of disguising their true nature during the middle ages, in order to protect Qabalists from church persecution.

Builders of the Adytum, as well as most other occultists of Golden Dawn / Rosicrician lineage, do hold that Tarot is a tool for awakening a dormant type of consciousness that Frater Case called "superconsciousness". This is roughly equivalent to the opening of the Third Eye or Eye of Shiva in Hinduism, symbolized in Masonry by the All Seeing Eye.

In the Tarot, the 22 Trumps correspond to the 22 Paths of Wisdom on the Qabalistic Tree of Life. The 10 numbered cards correspond to the 10 Sephiroth, with the seperate suits representing a particular Sephira as viewed within a certain element (earth, air, fire, water). The Court cards correspond to the individual element within a certain so-called "Qabalistic World".

As a general rule of thumb, Tarot interpretation is rather straightforward: male figures represent self-consciousness, female figures represent subconsciousness, angelic figures represent superconsciousness, and demonic and animal figures represent a psycho-sexual force that is called "kundalini" by the Eastern Adepts.

Using this symbolism, the Tarot not only unveils the true interpretation of the Bible and other holy books, but also points out the Path of Return in step-by-step instructions.


In your opinion is it possible to go through this initatory alchemical process without belonging to one of these mystery schools?

Yes. The Buddha and Lao-Tze are good examples. In the end, everything must be found within, so it is not strictly necessary to belong to any man-made organization. It can, however, be helpful to join with others of like mind, and to learn from each other's successes and mistakes along the way.

[unusual_suspect]

Thanks for answering some of my questions. I am genuinely interested in this esoteric subject matter, obviously free masonry is out of the question, being a woman. However other organisations are open to both men and women.

I will take on board what you have said about joining with other like minded individuals. What you have to say about the Tarot is very interesting.

[jacob sladder]

Thanks for answering some of my questions. I am genuinely interested in this esoteric subject matter, obviously free masonry is out of the question, being a woman. However other organisations are open to both men and women.

I will take on board what you have said about joining with other like minded individuals. What you have to say about the Tarot is very interesting.

Hi, just because you are a woman Freemasonry is not out of the question.
There are both women - only, and Lodges open to both men and women available to you. :)

[mike martin]

Thanks for answering some of my questions. I am genuinely interested in this esoteric subject matter, obviously free masonry is out of the question, being a woman. However other organisations are open to both men and women.
Oops, here's an example of what I say about non-Masons here should really look elsewhere if they want to learn anything about the reality of Freemasonry

For example, I notice that you are based in the UK so as a woman you have the choice of 4 (four) Orders of Freemasonry open to women.

Women-only (like the men)
The Order of Women Fremasons (celebrating its Centenary this year): www.owf.org.uk
Honourable Fraternity of Ancient Freemasons: www.hfaf.org

Mixed:
Le Droit Humain: www.droit-humain.org/uk/
Grand Lodge for Men & Women: www.grandlodge.org.uk/



Mike

[unusual_suspect]

Thanks for the info Jaccob sladder and mike martin. It is not the sort of thing I would jump into and would have to find out more about it.

Would I be correct in thinking that Freemasonry, Rosicrucianism, Hermeticism etc are based on the same principals to an extent?

Freemasonry is portayed as a bit of a social networking old boys club - please forgive me if I sound ignorant, as I don't know a great deal about it. I am not particularly interested in this aspect of it, more the esoteric side. A couple of friends of mine are Masons and one is a member of AMORC, being a seeker, they have encouraged me to join with a reputable organisation.

How do Masonic Orders differ from other similar organisations? I have heard of Masonic Orders that admit women - again, I will probably sound rather ignorant - do you have to be invited and vetted by them in some way?

[thelonious]

Would I be correct in thinking that Freemasonry, Rosicrucianism, Hermeticism etc are based on the same principals to an extent?

Sort of, but Freemasonry (or, at least all-male Freemasonry) is the most exoteric of the organizations. This is not always the case with Co-Masonry (admits both men and women) which tends to be more esoteric than traditional male Masonry.

Freemasonry is portayed as a bit of a social networking old boys club

For the most part, that's true. But Co-Masonry is different in many respects.

How do Masonic Orders differ from other similar organisations? I have heard of Masonic Orders that admit women - again, I will probably sound rather ignorant - do you have to be invited and vetted by them in some way?

It depends...each one has its own rules. If that's something you're interested in, the different websites usually give that information.

[mike martin]

One thing I should say is that you will get differing answers on Freemasonry from different members here, mainly because it is not the same from Lodge to Lodge let alone country to country. For example the Freemasonry that Thelonious (in the US) is used to will be quite different from mine (England), there is a good chance that is the same with the other bodies as well.

Thanks for the info Jaccob sladder and mike martin. It is not the sort of thing I would jump into and would have to find out more about it.
A very sensible attitude, no one should ever jump into anything without learning something about it.

Would I be correct in thinking that Freemasonry, Rosicrucianism, Hermeticism etc are based on the same principals to an extent?
From what I've read there would seem to be but to brutally honest also from what I've read it is all a bit incidental. As I say I can't really comment thoroughly as I'm only familiar with Masonic Ritual not the others.

Freemasonry is portayed as a bit of a social networking old boys club - please forgive me if I sound ignorant, as I don't know a great deal about it. I am not particularly interested in this aspect of it, more the esoteric side. A couple of friends of mine are Masons and one is a member of AMORC, being a seeker, they have encouraged me to join with a reputable organisation.
Freemasonry is often painted as one kind of organisation or another when in fact neither is actually true. Freemasonry is quite a personal thing and different Freemasons get different things from it ranging from esoteric interests all the way to simple fellowship, regardless of which Order or Grand Lodge they are members of, I have met many esoteric Masons and many fellowship Masons within UGLE alone.

How do Masonic Orders differ from other similar organisations? I have heard of Masonic Orders that admit women - again, I will probably sound rather ignorant - do you have to be invited and vetted by them in some way?
The rule about joining is pretty much the same whichever flavour, you must ask to join. A member may decide that you are interested and suggest you ask but they should never actually ask you to join. Usually once you have made an approach a couple of members of the Lodge will want to get to know you (took me 2 years, cos I didn't actually know any Masons) as they will act as your Proposer and Seconder.

Co-Masonry is what some people call the most "esoteric" although I don't particularly agree, I would call it mystical as it has been strongly influenced by Theosophists. IMHO, rather than being esoteric (meaning hidden meanings) which Freemasonry definitely is, it is a combination of Freemasonry and Theosophy and that is what gives that impression.

Mike

[unusual_suspect]

Thanks to all, you have been most insightful.