Christianity & NWO

[dlb2007]

The New World Order is not new, it has existed from the begining of time, men seeking to enslave other men, to control and manipulate them for their own purpose.

When Jesus died on the cross, he brought salvation. By doing nothing but good in his lifetime and suffering and being put to death he opened the eyes of billions of people to the tyranny of their leaders. When he was "raised up" on that Cross he drew men to himself, he is the lamb of God, slain so that we "mankind" may percieve the evil works of the elite and be set free.

For a time Christianity grew and gained momentum, Christianity was preached through out the empire and beyond. Christianity rained throughout the world for a 1000 years and then satan was set free from his prison and the Great Schism occured and the east broke away from the Seat of peter, the east fell into the hands of islam and the Christians suffered much persecution, for another 500 years the west lived in freedom, then the west too broke away from the seat of peter with the protestant reformation.... the reformation is the tool of the new world order, or rather a re-introduction of the former old world principles but this time they seek total global enslavement. They knew it had to be done in such away as to decieve Christians into believing they were following God, they could not simply do away with Christianity, it had to be a process, first they would strike the shepherd and scatter the sheep, and so they, defamed the papacy and taught it was evil, they then set themselves up as the new shepherds of the flock, at this time America was being discovered labled as "the new world" this was to be the spring board.

America was to become the flagship of the newworld order and the religion of Protestant Christianity would help them achieve it. As America grew most of europe returned to catholicism with the counter reformation but Germany, Holland and England as well as most scandanvian countries remained protestant. Over the years new ideologies had been introduced into the protestant nations, such as eugenics, nihislm, facism etc. When America had been built it was time to impliment the planned take over of the world. First of all two of these imperial protestant nations would do battle Germany and England out of this World War 1 would come a organisation that would be the seed for the new world government it was called the league of nations. Then again these two protestant nations would go to war, Germany invaded and controlled most of Europe, then America became involved and England and America appeared to oust Germany and liberate Europe, but America and Britian had simply taken control of Catholic Europe, using communism as a threat to europe enabled them to control europe from Berlin. England then appeared to loose its collonies due to major war debt that we had borrowed from America and thus America finally emerged to take centre stage. And the league of nations would become the united nations.

Once europe had suitably been controlled the threat of the soviet union was no longer needed. Once they had control of the western world, new movements and propaganda would begin to nibble away at the Christian moral fabric of both America, Europe and indeed the western world including Austrailia. Then the American dream would be spread around the world, the New Gospel, of the new world order. the prosperity of its people a lure to engage in a free market, through which control of the entire world would come about illuminati puppets disguised as protestant Christians would take office and would instigate wars to appear that Christianity is the evil that it seeks enslavement. propaganda would be used to discredit Christianity and Once Christianity was weak enough and beliefs like athiesm, materialism and secularism were firmly embeded Protestant Christianity was to be revamped, open rejection of the bible, homosexual bishops, blessing Gay unions, acceptance of contraception, abortion and euthenasia and at the same time this propaganda would be used to try and force Catholicism to follow suit, knowing fine well it would not, Catholicism would be villanised and discredited and the age old protestant indotrination of "the papacy is the seat of the anti Christ" and will become the one world religion would be used to prevent those who are waking up from realising the depths of the deciet used to decieve them, lost in between a collapsing protestant religion and a coming new world order of slavery and the papacy blamed for this, it is not long before we catholics shall be handed over to our accusers.

The current ecconomic Crisis is simply to consolodate all finanical systems into a one world or global banking system, the crisis will put many out of work. Once that is achieved all that remains is for the world to go to war again the millions and millions of people without work will find themselves used as cannon fodder and the out come will be the united nations will emerge as the one world Government.

[tracker]

The New World Order is not new, it has existed from the begining of time, men seeking to enslave other men, to control and manipulate them for their own purpose.

When Jesus died on the cross, he brought salvation. By doing nothing but good in his lifetime and suffering and being put to death he opened the eyes of billions of people to the tyranny of their leaders. When he was "raised up" on that Cross he drew men to himself, he is the lamb of God, slain so that we "mankind" may percieve the evil works of the elite and be set free.

For a time Christianity grew and gained momentum, Christianity was preached through out the empire and beyond. Christianity rained throughout the world for a 1000 years and then satan was set free from his prison and the Great Schism occured and the east broke away from the Seat of peter, the east fell into the hands of islam and the Christians suffered much persecution, for another 500 years the west lived in freedom, then the west too broke away from the seat of peter with the protestant reformation.... the reformation is the tool of the new world order, or rather a re-introduction of the former old world principles but this time they seek total global enslavement. They knew it had to be done in such away as to decieve Christians into believing they were following God, they could not simply do away with Christianity, it had to be a process, first they would strike the shepherd and scatter the sheep, and so they, defamed the papacy and taught it was evil, they then set themselves up as the new shepherds of the flock, at this time America was being discovered labled as "the new world" this was to be the spring board.

America was to become the flagship of the newworld order and the religion of Protestant Christianity would help them achieve it. As America grew most of europe returned to catholicism with the counter reformation but Germany, Holland and England as well as most scandanvian countries remained protestant. Over the years new ideologies had been introduced into the protestant nations, such as eugenics, nihislm, facism etc. When America had been built it was time to impliment the planned take over of the world. First of all two of these imperial protestant nations would do battle Germany and England out of this World War 1 would come a organisation that would be the seed for the new world government it was called the league of nations. Then again these two protestant nations would go to war, Germany invaded and controlled most of Europe, then America became involved and England and America appeared to oust Germany and liberate Europe, but America and Britian had simply taken control of Catholic Europe, using communism as a threat to europe enabled them to control europe from Berlin. England then appeared to loose its collonies due to major war debt that we had borrowed from America and thus America finally emerged to take centre stage. And the league of nations would become the united nations.

Once europe had suitably been controlled the threat of the soviet union was no longer needed. Once they had control of the western world, new movements and propaganda would begin to nibble away at the Christian moral fabric of both America, Europe and indeed the western world including Austrailia. Then the American dream would be spread around the world, the New Gospel, of the new world order. the prosperity of its people a lure to engage in a free market, through which control of the entire world would come about illuminati puppets disguised as protestant Christians would take office and would instigate wars to appear that Christianity is the evil that it seeks enslavement. propaganda would be used to discredit Christianity and Once Christianity was weak enough and beliefs like athiesm, materialism and secularism were firmly embeded Protestant Christianity was to be revamped, open rejection of the bible, homosexual bishops, blessing Gay unions, acceptance of contraception, abortion and euthenasia and at the same time this propaganda would be used to try and force Catholicism to follow suit, knowing fine well it would not, Catholicism would be villanised and discredited and the age old protestant indotrination of "the papacy is the seat of the anti Christ" and will become the one world religion would be used to prevent those who are waking up from realising the depths of the deciet used to decieve them, lost in between a collapsing protestant religion and a coming new world order of slavery and the papacy blamed for this, it is not long before we catholics shall be handed over to our accusers.

The current ecconomic Crisis is simply to consolodate all finanical systems into a one world or global banking system, the crisis will put many out of work. Once that is achieved all that remains is for the world to go to war again the millions and millions of people without work will find themselves used as cannon fodder and the out come will be the united nations will emerge as the one world Government.

christianity wants its own NWO .
hence one man will come to rule the world , or hasnt that sunk in yet ?
the masire , the world leader , one person who rules the world .
that in its own nature is a dictatorship .

[dlb2007]

"christianity wants its own NWO "

Of course!, your witnessing the battle between Christ and the Anti Christ

"hence one man will come to rule the world , or hasnt that sunk in yet ?"

no need to be rude. Jesus is not just a man but God too, but dont take my word for it, look at the world he promises as opposed to the world the anti christ is brining about through the nwo and you too will believe he is God.

"the masire , the world leader , one person who rules the world .
that in its own nature is a dictatorship"

A dictatorship can be good or bad depending upon the dictator.

[thirdwave]

what a shock, another bible bashing thread!!

Where the hell is Satan!!? We need you buddy!

IMO if the only way to save us from the NWO is to trust in Jesus then I think we deserve to go down.

[tracker]

"christianity wants its own NWO "

Of course!, your witnessing the battle between Christ and the Anti Christ

"hence one man will come to rule the world , or hasnt that sunk in yet ?"

no need to be rude. Jesus is not just a man but God too, but dont take my word for it, look at the world he promises as opposed to the world the anti christ is brining about through the nwo and you too will believe he is God.

"the masire , the world leader , one person who rules the world .
that in its own nature is a dictatorship"

A dictatorship can be good or bad depending upon the dictator.

yes it does seem rude . apology towards you and now looking at it , yes i suppose it can be both good and bad depending on whether the ruler teaches or dictates .:cool:

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

what a shock, another bible bashing thread!!

Where the hell is Satan!!? We need you buddy!

IMO if the only way to save us from the NWO is to trust in Jesus then I think we deserve to go down.



Hello T-Wave!

I've been meaning to speak to you, for some time, about your and other Brits abuse of the American Language.

Good Grief!

'Bible Bashing' means: raggin' about the Bible, saying naughty things about the Bible.

As you Brits well remember; we Yanks put The Boots to ya Lo those many years ago, and part of our Swag was your native language, the Former: English Language.

Which is now the American Language.

So keep this lesson in mind. Bible bashing is boo booing the Bible; Bible Thumping is promoting the Bible in a positive manner.


http://www.impawards.com/1960/posters/elmer_gantry.jpg



Satan

http://restlessangel.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/elizabeth_hurley.jpg

[thirdwave]

Hello T-Wave!

I've been meaning to speak to you, for some time, about your and other Brits abuse of the American Language.

Good Grief!

'Bible Bashing' means: raggin' about the Bible, saying naughty things about the Bible.

As you Brits well remember; we Yanks put The Boots to ya Lo those many years ago, and part of our Swag was your native language, the Former: English Language.

Which is now the American Language.

So keep this lesson in mind. Bible bashing is boo booing the Bible; Bible Thumping is promoting the Bible in a positive manner.


http://www.impawards.com/1960/posters/elmer_gantry.jpg



Satan

http://restlessangel.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/elizabeth_hurley.jpg

First of all, when you put the boot to "us all" you would have done a bit better to take care of a few other issues rather than brushing off your taste for tea, like how the USA still remained a slave to the monarch with out even knowing it.

slightly off top but here..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFkXq8-bzoo

you been spending so much time desperately trying to find bits of info to re assure your faith that you have neglected research on who starts wars and why they are started.

If you think it was not intended by the elite for the USA to become "independent" then you are only exposing more ignorance... clearly triggered by patriotism which in many ways works like religion in terms of manipulating people and dividing them.

As for my grammar mistake, I am shit at grammar though have never really felt it has effected my intelligence.. only other peoples perception of it. I find it odd sometimes how such words like thumping and bashing can mean the opposite sometimes....

I take it you know what I meant though...

come to think of it, did your Lord ever give people the run down on grammar? ... as he did not seem to cater for those who are not the best of readers... He very much relied on them being told... maybe that's why so much of the masses fell for so much bullshit, they could not read. Thankfully my reading is better than typing.

Great picture of Satan, at least you are open to the fact these symbols are not always male.

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

what grammar mistake? :confused:

bible basher>bible thumper

semantics & nomenclature


I think Bonnie Old England would be served well by adapting some of the charms of the victorious Yanks.

Perhaps instead of Bloke or Mate, you may wish to address your fellow country men as: Bubba.

And I enjoy tea very much, thank you.

cya around the campus; Bubba!

[thirdwave]

what grammar mistake? :confused:

bible basher>bible thumper

lol dont get too confused, its a grammar mistake because I used an English word in the wrong context, as you pointed out.. but if you want to add semantics & nomenclature's to the list than knock your self out ;).


I think Bonnie Old England would be served well by adapting some of the charms of the victorious Yanks.
Errr I thought the UK was the USA?

Perhaps instead of Bloke or Mate, you may wish to address your fellow country men as: Bubba. Naaaa its Geeeza over here, or Bruv.

And I enjoy tea very much, thank you.
You wana have someone fed ex you over some PG tips
http://www.pgtips.co.uk/ ..(or maybe organic would be better advice)

cya around the campus; Bubba!

Laterz Bruv ;)

[philidor]

What about all the real evil christianity has imposed on the world historically:

314 Immediately after its full legalisation, the Christian Church attacks non-Christians. The Council of Ancyra denounces the worship of Goddess Artemis.


324 The emperor Constantine declares Christianity as the only official religion of the Roman Empire. In Dydima, Minor Asia, he sacks the Oracle of the god Apollo and tortures the pagan priests to death. He also evicts all non-Christian peoples from Mount Athos and destroys all the local Hellenic temples.

325 Nicene Council. The "godman" gets a promotion: 'Christ is Divine'


326 Constantine, following the instructions of his mother Helen, destroys the temple of the god Asclepius in Aigeai Cilicia and many temples of the goddess Aphrodite in Jerusalem, Aphaca, Mambre, Phoenicia, Baalbek, etc.


330 Constantine steals the treasures and statues of the pagan temples of Greece to decorate Constantinople, the new capital of his Empire.


335 Constantine sacks many pagan temples in Asia Minor and Palestine and orders the execution by crucifixion of “all magicians and soothsayers.” Martyrdom of the neoplatonist philosopher Sopatrus.


341 Constantius II (Flavius Julius Constantius) persecutes “all the soothsayers and the Hellenists.” Many gentile Hellenes are either imprisoned or executed.


346 New large scale persecutions against non-Christian peoples in Constantinople. Banishment of the famous orator Libanius accused as a “magician”.


353 An edict of Constantius orders the death penalty for all kind of worship through sacrifice and “idols”.


354 A new edict orders the closing of all the pagan temples. Some of them are profaned and turned into brothels or gambling rooms.

Execution of pagan priests begins.

A new edict of Constantius orders the destruction of the pagan temples and the execution of all “idolaters”.

First burning of libraries in various cities of the empire.

The first lime factories are organised next to the closed pagan temples. A major part of the holy architecture of the pagans is turned into lime.


357 Constantius outlaws all methods of divination (astrology not excluded).


359 In Skythopolis, Syria, the Christians organise the first death camps for the torture and executions of the arrested non-Christians from all around the empire.


361 to 363 Religious tolerance and restoration of the pagan cults is declared in Constantinople (11th December 361) by the pagan emperor Julian (Flavius Claudius Julianus).

363 Assassination of Julian (26th June).


364 Emperor Jovian orders the burning of the Library of Antioch.

An Imperial edict (11th September) orders the death penalty for all those that worship their ancestral gods or practice divination (“sileat omnibus perpetuo divinandi curiositas”).

Three different edicts (4th February, 9th September, 23rd December) order the confiscation of all properties of the pagan temples and the death penalty for participation in pagan rituals, even private ones.

The Church Council of Laodicea (Phrygia – western Asia Minor) orders that religious observances are to be conducted on Sunday and not on Saturday. Sunday becomes the new Sabbath. The practice of staying at home and resting on Saturday declared sinful and anathema to Christ.


365 An imperial edict from Emperor Valens, a zealous Arian Christian (17th November), forbids pagan officers of the army to command Christian soldiers.


370 Valens orders a tremendous persecution of non-Christian peoples in all the Eastern Empire. In Antioch, among many other non-Christians, the ex-governor Fidustius and the priests Hilarius and Patricius are executed. The philosopher Simonides is burned alive and the philosopher Maximus is decapitated. All the friends of Julian are persecuted (Orebasius, Sallustius, Pegasius etc.).

Tons of books are burnt in the squares of the cities of the Eastern Empire.


372 Valens orders the governor of Minor Asia to exterminate all the Hellenes and all documents of their wisdom.


373 New prohibition of all divination methods is issued. The term “pagan” (pagani, villagers, equivalent to the modern insult, “peasants”) is introduced by the Christians to demean non-believers.


375 The temple of Asclepius in Epidaurus, Greece, is closed down by the Christians.


380 On 27th February Christianity becomes the exclusive religion of the Roman Empire by an edict of the Emperor Flavius Theodosius, requiring that:


"All the various nations which are subject to our clemency and moderation should continue in the profession of that religion which was delivered to the Romans by the divine Apostle Peter."

The non-Christians are called “loathsome, heretics, stupid and blind”.

In another edict, Theodosius calls “insane” those that do not believe to the Christian God and outlaws all disagreement with the Church dogmas.

Ambrosius, bishop of Milan, begins the destruction of pagan temples of his area. The Christian priests lead the hungry mob against the temple of goddess Demeter in Eleusis and try to lynch the hierophants Nestorius and Priskus. The 95 year old hierophant Nestorius ends the Eleusinian Mysteries and announces "the predominance of mental darkness over the human race."


381 At the Council of Constantinople the 'Holy Spirit' is declared 'Divine' (thus sanctioning a triune god). On 2nd May, Theodosius deprives of all their rights any Christians who return to the pagan religion. Throughout the Eastern Empire the pagan temples and libraries are looted or burned down. On 21st December, Theodosius outlaws visits to Hellenic temples.

In Constantinople, the Temple of Aphrodite is turned into a brothel and the temples of the Sun and Artemis to stables.


382 “Hellelujah” (“Glory to Yahweh”) is imposed in the Christian mass.


384 Theodosius orders the Praetorian Prefect Maternus Cynegius, a dedicated Christian, to cooperate with local bishops and destroy the temples of the pagans in Northern Greece and Minor Asia.


385 to 388 Prefect Maternus Cynegius, encouraged by his fanatic wife, and bishop 'Saint' Marcellus with his gangs, scour the countryside and sack and destroy hundreds of Hellenic temples, shrines and altars. Among others they destroy the temple of Edessa, the Cabeireion of Imbros, the temple of Zeus in Apamea, the temple of Apollo in Dydima and all the temples of Palmyra.

Thousands of innocent pagans from all sides of the empire suffer martyrdom in the notorious death camps of Skythopolis.


386 Theodosius outlaws the care of the sacked pagan temples.


388 Public talks on religious subjects are outlawed by Theodosius. The old orator Libanius sends his famous epistle “Pro Templis” to Theodosius with the hope that the few remaining Hellenic temples will be respected and spared.


389 to 390 All non-Christian calendars and dating-methods are outlawed. Hordes of fanatic hermits from the desert flood the cities of the Middle East and Egypt and destroy statues, altars, libraries and pagan temples, and lynch the pagans. Theophilus, Patriarch of Alexandria, starts heavy persecutions against non-Christian peoples, turning the temple of Dionysius into a Christian church, burning down the Mithraeum of the city, destroying the temple of Zeus and burlesques the pagan priests before they are killed by stoning. The Christian mob profanes the cult images.


391 On 24th February, a new edict of Theodosius prohibits not only visits to pagan temples but also looking at the vandalised statues. New heavy persecutions occur all around the empire. In Alexandria, Egypt, pagans, led by the philosopher Olympius, revolt and after some street fights they lock themselves inside the fortified temple of the god Serapis (the Serapeion). After a violent siege, the Christians take over the building, demolish it, burn its famous library and profane the cult images.


392 On 8th November, Theodosius outlaws all the non-Christian rituals and names them “superstitions of the gentiles” (gentilicia superstitio). New full scale persecutions are ordered against pagans. The Mysteries of Samothrace are ended and the priests slaughtered. In Cyprus the local bishop “Saint” Epiphanius and “Saint” Tychon destroy almost all the temples of the island and exterminate thousands of non-Christians. The local Mysteries of goddess Aphrodite are ended. Theodosius’s edict declares:

“The ones that won’t obey pater Epiphanius have no right to keep living in that island.”
The pagans revolt against the Emperor and the Church in Petra, Aeropolis, Rafia, Gaza, Baalbek and other cities of the Middle East.


393 The Pythian Games, the Aktia Games and the Olympic Games are outlawed as part of the Hellenic “idolatry”. The Christians sack the temples of Olympia.


395 Two new edicts (22nd July and 7th August) cause new persecutions against pagans. Rufinus, the eunuch Prime Minister of Emperor Flavius Arcadius directs the hordes of baptised Goths (led by Alaric) to the country of the Hellenes. Encouraged by Christian monks the barbarians sack and burn many cities (Dion, Delphi, Megara, Corinth, Pheneos, Argos, Nemea, Lycosoura, Sparta, Messene, Phigaleia, Olympia, etc.), slaughter or enslave innumerable gentile Hellenes and burn down all the temples. Among others, they burn down the Eleusinian Sanctuary and burn alive all its priests (including the hierophant of Mithras Hilarius).


396 On 7th December, a new edict by Arcadius orders that paganism be treated as high treason. Imprisonment of the few remaining pagan priests and hierophants.


397 “Demolish them!” Flavius Arcadius orders that all the still standing pagan temples be demolished.


398 The 4th Church Council of Carthage prohibits everybody, including Christian bishops, from studying pagan books. Porphyrius, bishop of Gaza, demolishes almost all the pagan temples of his city (except nine of them that remain active).


399 With a new edict (13th July) Flavius Arcadius orders all remaining pagan temples, mainly in the countryside, be immediately demolished.


400 Bishop Nicetas destroys the Oracle of Dionysus in Vesai and baptises all the non-Christians of this area.


401 The Christian mob of Carthage lynches non-Christians and destroys temples and “idols”. In Gaza too, the local bishop “Saint” Porphyrius sends his followers to lynch pagans and to demolish the remaining nine still active temples of the city.

The 15th Council of Chalcedon orders all the Christians that still keep good relations with their non-Christian relatives to be excommunicated (even after their death).


405 John Chrysostom sends hordes of grey-dressed monks armed with clubs and iron bars to destroy the “idols” in all the cities of Palestine.


406 John Chrysostom collects funds from rich Christian women to financially support the demolition of the Hellenic temples. In Ephesus he orders the destruction of the famous temple of Artemis. In Salamis, Cyprus, “Saints” Epiphanius and Eutychius continue the persecutions of the pagans and the total destruction of their temples and sanctuaries.


407 A new edict outlaws once more all the non-Christian acts of worship.


408 The emperor of the Western Empire, Honorius, and the emperor of the Eastern Empire, Arcadius, order all the sculptures of the pagan temples to be either destroyed or to be taken away. Private ownership of pagan sculpture is also outlawed. The local bishops lead new heavy persecutions against the pagans and new book burning. The judges that have pity for the pagans are also persecuted. “Saint” Augustine massacres hundreds of protesting pagans in Calama, Algeria.


409 Another edict orders all methods of divination including astrology to be punished by death.


415 In Alexandria, the Christian mob, urged by the bishop Cyril, attacks a few days before the Judeo-Christian Pascha (Easter) and cuts to pieces the famous and beautiful philosopher Hypatia. The pieces of her body, carried around by the Christian mob through the streets of Alexandria, are finally burned together with her books in a place called Cynaron.

On 30th August, new persecutions start against all the pagan priests of North Africa who end their lives either crucified or burned alive. Emperor Theodosius II expels the Jews from Alexandria.


416 The inquisitor Hypatius, alias “The Sword of God”, exterminates the last pagans of Bithynia. In Constantinople (7th December) all non-Christian army officers, public employees and judges are dismissed.


423 Emperor Theodosius II declares (8th June) that the religion of the pagans is nothing more than “demon worship” and orders all those who persist in practicing it to be punished by imprisonment and torture.


429 The temple of goddess Athena (Parthenon) on the Acropolis of Athens is sacked. The Athenian pagans are persecuted.

431 Council of Ephesus ("Robber Synod"). Promotion for the godman – "Christ is complete God and complete man."


435 On 14th November, a new edict by Theodosius II orders the death penalty for all “heretics” and pagans of the empire. Only Judaism is considered a legal non-Christian religion.


438 Theodosius II issues an new edict (31st January) against the pagans, incriminating their “idolatry” as the reason of a recent plague!


440 to 450 The Christians demolish all the monuments, altars and temples of Athens, Olympia, and other Greek cities.


448 Theodosius II orders all non-Christian books to be burned.
450 All the temples of Aphrodisias (the City of the Goddess Aphrodite) are demolished and all its libraries burned down. The city is renamed Stavroupolis (City of the Cross).

451 Council of Chalcedon. New edict by Theodosius II (4th November) emphasises that “idolatry” is punished by death. Assertion of orthodox doctrine over the 'Monophysites' – 'JC has single, divine nature.'



457 to 491 Sporadic persecutions against the pagans of the Eastern Empire. Among others, the physician Jacobus and the philosopher Gessius are executed. Severianus, Herestios, Zosimus, Isidorus and others are tortured and imprisoned. The proselytiser Conon and his followers exterminate the last non-Christians of Imbros Island, Northeast Aegean Sea. The last worshippers of Lavranius Zeus are exterminated in Cyprus.


482 to 488 The majority of the pagans of Minor Asia are exterminated after a desperate revolt against the emperor and the Church.


486 More “underground” pagan priests are discovered, arrested, burlesqued, tortured and executed in Alexandria, Egypt.


515 Baptism becomes obligatory even for those that already say they are Christians.

The emperor of Constantinople, Anastasius, orders the massacre of the pagans in the Arabian city Zoara and the demolition of the temple of local god Theandrites.


523 Emperor Justin I outlaws the Arian heresy and campaigns to suppress Arianism everywhere.


528 Emperor Justinian outlaws the “alternative” Olympian Games of Antioch. He also orders the execution—by fire, crucifixion, tearing to pieces by wild beasts or cutting to pieces by iron nails—of all who practice “sorcery, divination, magic or idolatry” and prohibits all teachings by the pagans (“the ones suffering from the blasphemous insanity of the Hellenes”).


529 Justinian outlaws the Athenian Philosophical Academy and has its property confiscated.


532 The inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus, a fanatical monk, leads a crusade against the pagans of Minor Asia.


542 Justinian allows the inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus to forcibly convert the pagans of Phrygia, Caria and Lydia in Asia Minor. Within 35 years of this crusade, 99 churches and 12 monasteries are built on the sites of demolished pagan temples.


546 Hundreds of pagans are put to death in Constantinople by the inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus.


556 Justinian orders the notorious inquisitor Amantius to go to Antioch, to find, arrest, torture and exterminate the last non-Christians of the city and burn all the private libraries down.


562 Mass arrests, burlesquing, tortures, imprisonments and executions of gentile Hellenes in Athens, Antioch, Palmyra and Constantinople.


578 to 582 The Christians torture and crucify Hellenes all around the Eastern Empire, and exterminate the last non-Christians of Heliopolis (Baalbek).


580 The Christian inquisitors attack a secret temple of Zeus in Antioch. The priest commits suicide, but the rest of the pagans are arrested. All the prisoners, the Vice Governor Anatolius included, are tortured and sent to Constantinople to face trial. Sentenced to death they are thrown to the lions. The wild animals being unwilling to tear them to pieces, they end up crucified. Their dead bodies are dragged in the streets by the Christian mob and afterwards thrown unburied in the dump.


583 New persecutions against the gentile Hellenes by Emperor Maurice.


590 In all the Eastern Empire the Christian accusers “discover” pagan conspiracies. New storm of torture and executions.



Original Source: Vlasis Rassias, Demolish Them! … Published in Greek, Athens 1994

As we can plainly see christianity is evil. This isn't even talking about the kidnapped women and children who were RAPED by catholic and protestant priest, had their tongues cut off to avoid communication with the public, and executed. And the Native American genocide where they would burn Natives alive and the Vatican would falsely claim all of the Americas as it's land and that the Natives "owed" the Vatican for living rent free on Vatican land for centuries. The Vaticans false sense of entitlement via the laws of discovery and conquest and the bull of borgia is truely disgusting.

[philidor]

"christianity wants its own NWO "

Of course!, your witnessing the battle between Christ and the Anti Christ

"hence one man will come to rule the world , or hasnt that sunk in yet ?"

no need to be rude. Jesus is not just a man but God too, but dont take my word for it, look at the world he promises as opposed to the world the anti christ is brining about through the nwo and you too will believe he is God.

"the masire , the world leader , one person who rules the world .
that in its own nature is a dictatorship"

A dictatorship can be good or bad depending upon the dictator.

I can call myself "God" and get the death penalty, doesn't make me a criminal, just a living version of the golden calf. Roman emperors and pharohs also said they are "God" on Earth, and there is just as much evidence that they are "God" on Earth as there is for Yeshu ben Yosef aka Jesus to be "God" on Earth.

To YOU Jesus is so-called "God", however to ME he was very much probably a fictional character and a false idol. If Jesus was God on Earth howcome the Sanhedrin (God's main men during the time of Christ) didn't approve of him being the messiah? I have a refutation that you have to see regarding Christ divinity and messiahdom:

http://qumran.com/Refuting_Christianity/index.htm

[element]

The abrahamic religions and materialism/atheism/communism (etc.) go hand in hand.

Why do the atheistic education books even teach about Jesus and Mohammed in history classes? And using the year 33 as Christ's dead?

The thing is, the idiots love the classical and pointless theist - atheist battles, but we all know, in the end both are full with errors and mistakes.

Christianity is one big aid for the nwo, and has always been that. Christianity has been violently forced on other people, just as their ''atheistic'' opponements. Communism for example or the materialism we have these days in education, media and so called science.

[zero1]

The Abrahamic religions and materialism/atheism/Communism (etc.) go hand in hand. The thing is, the idiots love the classical and pointless theist - atheist battles, but we all know, in the end both are full with errors and mistakes.

Precisely what I've been saying for a long time now. In religion as irreligion, the secular end is all that matters. Trapped in the false dichotomy of believer and non-believer, we are all doomed to the bondage of these redundant ideologies.

[delamo1999]

This is just my two cents, but here are some things about Christianity in the US. Christians in the US seen to have alot of influence over things. Currently they are making a big stink (that has made mainstream media) over the fact the US retailers say "Happy Holidays" as opposed to "Merry Christmas". They are really P****** off about diversity.

Also in CA, they fought tooth and nail to get a proposition put on the November ballot to ban the newly created law that allows gay marriage in CA. Their heavy campagning and money bought the outcome of that election. People are out of work, yet to christians, they are more concerned about preserving the archaic tradition of keeping marriage between one man and one woman.

:(

[thirdwave]

This is just my two cents, but here are some things about Christianity in the US. Christians in the US seen to have alot of influence over things. Currently they are making a big stink (that has made mainstream media) over the fact the US retailers say "Happy Holidays" as opposed to "Merry Christmas". They are really P****** off about diversity.

Also in CA, they fought tooth and nail to get a proposition put on the November ballot to ban the newly created law that allows gay marriage in CA. Their heavy campagning and money bought the outcome of that election. People are out of work, yet to christians, they are more concerned about preserving the archaic tradition of keeping marriage between one man and one woman.

:(


Like all the religions of the world.. its on its death bed.... lets just hope something else does not replace it.

[aee02]

Precisely what I've been saying for a long time now. In religion as irreligion, the secular end is all that matters. Trapped in the false dichotomy of believer and non-believer, we are all doomed to the bondage of these redundant ideologies.

I agree. Well put...

For the record, this American likes the English peeps just fine. I also enjoy tea-just southern style-with ice and sugar. ;)

[cognizant]

LOL I hated England. I was there working with a team at BP 2 years ago. Couldn't wait to get out of there. It was extremely Big Brother and they didn't like my independent thinking. LOL I got to talk to Gordon Brown when he was at BP. We didn't mesh. The food was rather awful as well. I did get a nice picture by the Thames though.

And it's called a toothbrush. Get one.

[drakul]

What about all the real evil christianity has imposed on the world historically:

314 Immediately after its full legalisation, the Christian Church attacks non-Christians. The Council of Ancyra denounces the worship of Goddess Artemis.


324 The emperor Constantine declares Christianity as the only official religion of the Roman Empire. In Dydima, Minor Asia, he sacks the Oracle of the god Apollo and tortures the pagan priests to death. He also evicts all non-Christian peoples from Mount Athos and destroys all the local Hellenic temples.

325 Nicene Council. The "godman" gets a promotion: 'Christ is Divine'


326 Constantine, following the instructions of his mother Helen, destroys the temple of the god Asclepius in Aigeai Cilicia and many temples of the goddess Aphrodite in Jerusalem, Aphaca, Mambre, Phoenicia, Baalbek, etc.


330 Constantine steals the treasures and statues of the pagan temples of Greece to decorate Constantinople, the new capital of his Empire.


335 Constantine sacks many pagan temples in Asia Minor and Palestine and orders the execution by crucifixion of “all magicians and soothsayers.” Martyrdom of the neoplatonist philosopher Sopatrus.


341 Constantius II (Flavius Julius Constantius) persecutes “all the soothsayers and the Hellenists.” Many gentile Hellenes are either imprisoned or executed.


346 New large scale persecutions against non-Christian peoples in Constantinople. Banishment of the famous orator Libanius accused as a “magician”.


353 An edict of Constantius orders the death penalty for all kind of worship through sacrifice and “idols”.


354 A new edict orders the closing of all the pagan temples. Some of them are profaned and turned into brothels or gambling rooms.

Execution of pagan priests begins.

A new edict of Constantius orders the destruction of the pagan temples and the execution of all “idolaters”.

First burning of libraries in various cities of the empire.

The first lime factories are organised next to the closed pagan temples. A major part of the holy architecture of the pagans is turned into lime.


357 Constantius outlaws all methods of divination (astrology not excluded).


359 In Skythopolis, Syria, the Christians organise the first death camps for the torture and executions of the arrested non-Christians from all around the empire.


361 to 363 Religious tolerance and restoration of the pagan cults is declared in Constantinople (11th December 361) by the pagan emperor Julian (Flavius Claudius Julianus).

363 Assassination of Julian (26th June).


364 Emperor Jovian orders the burning of the Library of Antioch.

An Imperial edict (11th September) orders the death penalty for all those that worship their ancestral gods or practice divination (“sileat omnibus perpetuo divinandi curiositas”).

Three different edicts (4th February, 9th September, 23rd December) order the confiscation of all properties of the pagan temples and the death penalty for participation in pagan rituals, even private ones.

The Church Council of Laodicea (Phrygia – western Asia Minor) orders that religious observances are to be conducted on Sunday and not on Saturday. Sunday becomes the new Sabbath. The practice of staying at home and resting on Saturday declared sinful and anathema to Christ.


365 An imperial edict from Emperor Valens, a zealous Arian Christian (17th November), forbids pagan officers of the army to command Christian soldiers.


370 Valens orders a tremendous persecution of non-Christian peoples in all the Eastern Empire. In Antioch, among many other non-Christians, the ex-governor Fidustius and the priests Hilarius and Patricius are executed. The philosopher Simonides is burned alive and the philosopher Maximus is decapitated. All the friends of Julian are persecuted (Orebasius, Sallustius, Pegasius etc.).

Tons of books are burnt in the squares of the cities of the Eastern Empire.


372 Valens orders the governor of Minor Asia to exterminate all the Hellenes and all documents of their wisdom.


373 New prohibition of all divination methods is issued. The term “pagan” (pagani, villagers, equivalent to the modern insult, “peasants”) is introduced by the Christians to demean non-believers.


375 The temple of Asclepius in Epidaurus, Greece, is closed down by the Christians.


380 On 27th February Christianity becomes the exclusive religion of the Roman Empire by an edict of the Emperor Flavius Theodosius, requiring that:


"All the various nations which are subject to our clemency and moderation should continue in the profession of that religion which was delivered to the Romans by the divine Apostle Peter."

The non-Christians are called “loathsome, heretics, stupid and blind”.

In another edict, Theodosius calls “insane” those that do not believe to the Christian God and outlaws all disagreement with the Church dogmas.

Ambrosius, bishop of Milan, begins the destruction of pagan temples of his area. The Christian priests lead the hungry mob against the temple of goddess Demeter in Eleusis and try to lynch the hierophants Nestorius and Priskus. The 95 year old hierophant Nestorius ends the Eleusinian Mysteries and announces "the predominance of mental darkness over the human race."


381 At the Council of Constantinople the 'Holy Spirit' is declared 'Divine' (thus sanctioning a triune god). On 2nd May, Theodosius deprives of all their rights any Christians who return to the pagan religion. Throughout the Eastern Empire the pagan temples and libraries are looted or burned down. On 21st December, Theodosius outlaws visits to Hellenic temples.

In Constantinople, the Temple of Aphrodite is turned into a brothel and the temples of the Sun and Artemis to stables.


382 “Hellelujah” (“Glory to Yahweh”) is imposed in the Christian mass.


384 Theodosius orders the Praetorian Prefect Maternus Cynegius, a dedicated Christian, to cooperate with local bishops and destroy the temples of the pagans in Northern Greece and Minor Asia.


385 to 388 Prefect Maternus Cynegius, encouraged by his fanatic wife, and bishop 'Saint' Marcellus with his gangs, scour the countryside and sack and destroy hundreds of Hellenic temples, shrines and altars. Among others they destroy the temple of Edessa, the Cabeireion of Imbros, the temple of Zeus in Apamea, the temple of Apollo in Dydima and all the temples of Palmyra.

Thousands of innocent pagans from all sides of the empire suffer martyrdom in the notorious death camps of Skythopolis.


386 Theodosius outlaws the care of the sacked pagan temples.


388 Public talks on religious subjects are outlawed by Theodosius. The old orator Libanius sends his famous epistle “Pro Templis” to Theodosius with the hope that the few remaining Hellenic temples will be respected and spared.


389 to 390 All non-Christian calendars and dating-methods are outlawed. Hordes of fanatic hermits from the desert flood the cities of the Middle East and Egypt and destroy statues, altars, libraries and pagan temples, and lynch the pagans. Theophilus, Patriarch of Alexandria, starts heavy persecutions against non-Christian peoples, turning the temple of Dionysius into a Christian church, burning down the Mithraeum of the city, destroying the temple of Zeus and burlesques the pagan priests before they are killed by stoning. The Christian mob profanes the cult images.


391 On 24th February, a new edict of Theodosius prohibits not only visits to pagan temples but also looking at the vandalised statues. New heavy persecutions occur all around the empire. In Alexandria, Egypt, pagans, led by the philosopher Olympius, revolt and after some street fights they lock themselves inside the fortified temple of the god Serapis (the Serapeion). After a violent siege, the Christians take over the building, demolish it, burn its famous library and profane the cult images.


392 On 8th November, Theodosius outlaws all the non-Christian rituals and names them “superstitions of the gentiles” (gentilicia superstitio). New full scale persecutions are ordered against pagans. The Mysteries of Samothrace are ended and the priests slaughtered. In Cyprus the local bishop “Saint” Epiphanius and “Saint” Tychon destroy almost all the temples of the island and exterminate thousands of non-Christians. The local Mysteries of goddess Aphrodite are ended. Theodosius’s edict declares:

“The ones that won’t obey pater Epiphanius have no right to keep living in that island.”
The pagans revolt against the Emperor and the Church in Petra, Aeropolis, Rafia, Gaza, Baalbek and other cities of the Middle East.


393 The Pythian Games, the Aktia Games and the Olympic Games are outlawed as part of the Hellenic “idolatry”. The Christians sack the temples of Olympia.


395 Two new edicts (22nd July and 7th August) cause new persecutions against pagans. Rufinus, the eunuch Prime Minister of Emperor Flavius Arcadius directs the hordes of baptised Goths (led by Alaric) to the country of the Hellenes. Encouraged by Christian monks the barbarians sack and burn many cities (Dion, Delphi, Megara, Corinth, Pheneos, Argos, Nemea, Lycosoura, Sparta, Messene, Phigaleia, Olympia, etc.), slaughter or enslave innumerable gentile Hellenes and burn down all the temples. Among others, they burn down the Eleusinian Sanctuary and burn alive all its priests (including the hierophant of Mithras Hilarius).


396 On 7th December, a new edict by Arcadius orders that paganism be treated as high treason. Imprisonment of the few remaining pagan priests and hierophants.


397 “Demolish them!” Flavius Arcadius orders that all the still standing pagan temples be demolished.


398 The 4th Church Council of Carthage prohibits everybody, including Christian bishops, from studying pagan books. Porphyrius, bishop of Gaza, demolishes almost all the pagan temples of his city (except nine of them that remain active).


399 With a new edict (13th July) Flavius Arcadius orders all remaining pagan temples, mainly in the countryside, be immediately demolished.


400 Bishop Nicetas destroys the Oracle of Dionysus in Vesai and baptises all the non-Christians of this area.


401 The Christian mob of Carthage lynches non-Christians and destroys temples and “idols”. In Gaza too, the local bishop “Saint” Porphyrius sends his followers to lynch pagans and to demolish the remaining nine still active temples of the city.

The 15th Council of Chalcedon orders all the Christians that still keep good relations with their non-Christian relatives to be excommunicated (even after their death).


405 John Chrysostom sends hordes of grey-dressed monks armed with clubs and iron bars to destroy the “idols” in all the cities of Palestine.


406 John Chrysostom collects funds from rich Christian women to financially support the demolition of the Hellenic temples. In Ephesus he orders the destruction of the famous temple of Artemis. In Salamis, Cyprus, “Saints” Epiphanius and Eutychius continue the persecutions of the pagans and the total destruction of their temples and sanctuaries.


407 A new edict outlaws once more all the non-Christian acts of worship.


408 The emperor of the Western Empire, Honorius, and the emperor of the Eastern Empire, Arcadius, order all the sculptures of the pagan temples to be either destroyed or to be taken away. Private ownership of pagan sculpture is also outlawed. The local bishops lead new heavy persecutions against the pagans and new book burning. The judges that have pity for the pagans are also persecuted. “Saint” Augustine massacres hundreds of protesting pagans in Calama, Algeria.


409 Another edict orders all methods of divination including astrology to be punished by death.


415 In Alexandria, the Christian mob, urged by the bishop Cyril, attacks a few days before the Judeo-Christian Pascha (Easter) and cuts to pieces the famous and beautiful philosopher Hypatia. The pieces of her body, carried around by the Christian mob through the streets of Alexandria, are finally burned together with her books in a place called Cynaron.

On 30th August, new persecutions start against all the pagan priests of North Africa who end their lives either crucified or burned alive. Emperor Theodosius II expels the Jews from Alexandria.


416 The inquisitor Hypatius, alias “The Sword of God”, exterminates the last pagans of Bithynia. In Constantinople (7th December) all non-Christian army officers, public employees and judges are dismissed.


423 Emperor Theodosius II declares (8th June) that the religion of the pagans is nothing more than “demon worship” and orders all those who persist in practicing it to be punished by imprisonment and torture.


429 The temple of goddess Athena (Parthenon) on the Acropolis of Athens is sacked. The Athenian pagans are persecuted.

431 Council of Ephesus ("Robber Synod"). Promotion for the godman – "Christ is complete God and complete man."


435 On 14th November, a new edict by Theodosius II orders the death penalty for all “heretics” and pagans of the empire. Only Judaism is considered a legal non-Christian religion.


438 Theodosius II issues an new edict (31st January) against the pagans, incriminating their “idolatry” as the reason of a recent plague!


440 to 450 The Christians demolish all the monuments, altars and temples of Athens, Olympia, and other Greek cities.


448 Theodosius II orders all non-Christian books to be burned.
450 All the temples of Aphrodisias (the City of the Goddess Aphrodite) are demolished and all its libraries burned down. The city is renamed Stavroupolis (City of the Cross).

451 Council of Chalcedon. New edict by Theodosius II (4th November) emphasises that “idolatry” is punished by death. Assertion of orthodox doctrine over the 'Monophysites' – 'JC has single, divine nature.'



457 to 491 Sporadic persecutions against the pagans of the Eastern Empire. Among others, the physician Jacobus and the philosopher Gessius are executed. Severianus, Herestios, Zosimus, Isidorus and others are tortured and imprisoned. The proselytiser Conon and his followers exterminate the last non-Christians of Imbros Island, Northeast Aegean Sea. The last worshippers of Lavranius Zeus are exterminated in Cyprus.


482 to 488 The majority of the pagans of Minor Asia are exterminated after a desperate revolt against the emperor and the Church.


486 More “underground” pagan priests are discovered, arrested, burlesqued, tortured and executed in Alexandria, Egypt.


515 Baptism becomes obligatory even for those that already say they are Christians.

The emperor of Constantinople, Anastasius, orders the massacre of the pagans in the Arabian city Zoara and the demolition of the temple of local god Theandrites.


523 Emperor Justin I outlaws the Arian heresy and campaigns to suppress Arianism everywhere.


528 Emperor Justinian outlaws the “alternative” Olympian Games of Antioch. He also orders the execution—by fire, crucifixion, tearing to pieces by wild beasts or cutting to pieces by iron nails—of all who practice “sorcery, divination, magic or idolatry” and prohibits all teachings by the pagans (“the ones suffering from the blasphemous insanity of the Hellenes”).


529 Justinian outlaws the Athenian Philosophical Academy and has its property confiscated.


532 The inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus, a fanatical monk, leads a crusade against the pagans of Minor Asia.


542 Justinian allows the inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus to forcibly convert the pagans of Phrygia, Caria and Lydia in Asia Minor. Within 35 years of this crusade, 99 churches and 12 monasteries are built on the sites of demolished pagan temples.


546 Hundreds of pagans are put to death in Constantinople by the inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus.


556 Justinian orders the notorious inquisitor Amantius to go to Antioch, to find, arrest, torture and exterminate the last non-Christians of the city and burn all the private libraries down.


562 Mass arrests, burlesquing, tortures, imprisonments and executions of gentile Hellenes in Athens, Antioch, Palmyra and Constantinople.


578 to 582 The Christians torture and crucify Hellenes all around the Eastern Empire, and exterminate the last non-Christians of Heliopolis (Baalbek).


580 The Christian inquisitors attack a secret temple of Zeus in Antioch. The priest commits suicide, but the rest of the pagans are arrested. All the prisoners, the Vice Governor Anatolius included, are tortured and sent to Constantinople to face trial. Sentenced to death they are thrown to the lions. The wild animals being unwilling to tear them to pieces, they end up crucified. Their dead bodies are dragged in the streets by the Christian mob and afterwards thrown unburied in the dump.


583 New persecutions against the gentile Hellenes by Emperor Maurice.


590 In all the Eastern Empire the Christian accusers “discover” pagan conspiracies. New storm of torture and executions.



Original Source: Vlasis Rassias, Demolish Them! … Published in Greek, Athens 1994

As we can plainly see christianity is evil. This isn't even talking about the kidnapped women and children who were RAPED by catholic and protestant priest, had their tongues cut off to avoid communication with the public, and executed. And the Native American genocide where they would burn Natives alive and the Vatican would falsely claim all of the Americas as it's land and that the Natives "owed" the Vatican for living rent free on Vatican land for centuries. The Vaticans false sense of entitlement via the laws of discovery and conquest and the bull of borgia is truely disgusting.

----------------------

Prove the above accusations. I can definitely prove that nearly every ancient Classical religion demanded daily blood and human sacrifice. No wonder the people turned against paganism! But you are too simple, too naive, too brainwashed to be grateful you no longer have to take your first born down to the temple to have its throat cut.

In ancient Greece - you did not make a MOVE without a blood sacrifice to the oracle. Read the Greek and Roman historians. Read HERODOTUS - you will be stunned by the cruelty, the slavery, the castrations, the torture, the slaughter of innocents, the unquestioning enthusiastim for BLOOD SACRIFICE including child sacrifice that was de rigeur among the ancients.

It's ironic, David Icke talks about how the evil Illuminati have ruled the world for thousands of years = YES they WERE THE PAGANS. Icke talks about how the Illuminati have always required blood sacrifice for their rituals, but it is Christianity that forced these rituals into SECRET. Now you would turn them lose on humanity again with your complete ignorance.

Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it.

[scotia]

I think christianity is covered with a mask to decieve people and is the NWO.. There have been lots deceptions, too many.. Our courts and the wigs look like something from Egypt, and the bible looks like it was actualy started by Nero to control people, then James brought out his version, and so on... Its evil behind it using the mask of good, or ther is evil deep in there.

I think the Romans have named many people and groups, all the history written and taught as facts today I dont think is right.. Are pagans evil bloodthirsty people like Nero and others, or were Nero and others like the NWO scared of these people for a reason?

I think the pagans are the same as the druids and celts and picts etc... Lots of history has been changed and the truth is still getting mixed up today through lies and deception...

Egypt-Rome-Britain-America etc,, I think its all the same people behind these "empires" and lots more, and they have been using the same tools for ages..

[newdecades]

----------------------

Prove the above accusations. I can definitely prove that nearly every ancient Classical religion demanded daily blood and human sacrifice. No wonder the people turned against paganism! But you are too simple, too naive, too brainwashed to be grateful you no longer have to take your first born down to the temple to have its throat cut.

In ancient Greece - you did not make a MOVE without a blood sacrifice to the oracle. Read the Greek and Roman historians. Read HERODOTUS - you will be stunned by the cruelty, the slavery, the castrations, the torture, the slaughter of innocents, the unquestioning enthusiastim for BLOOD SACRIFICE including child sacrifice that was de rigeur among the ancients.

It's ironic, David Icke talks about how the evil Illuminati have ruled the world for thousands of years = YES they WERE THE PAGANS. Icke talks about how the Illuminati have always required blood sacrifice for their rituals, but it is Christianity that forced these rituals into SECRET. Now you would turn them lose on humanity again with your complete ignorance.

Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it.

yes, the illuminati were involved in the pagan religions and christianity. any time there is religion they are involved. that's why in the old testament there is animal sacrifice. god does not ask for sacrifices, that is something man decided to do. i think it's ridiculous that people think 'god' actually spoke to man and asked for sacrifices.

[armoured_amazon]

When Jesus died on the cross, he brought salvation. By doing nothing but good in his lifetime and suffering and being put to death he opened the eyes of billions of people to the tyranny of their leaders. When he was "raised up" on that Cross he drew men to himself, he is the lamb of God, slain so that we "mankind" may percieve the evil works of the elite and be set free.

That's all that matters. :)

[thirdwave]

It's ironic, David Icke talks about how the evil Illuminati have ruled the world for thousands of years = YES they WERE THE PAGANS.

Sorry but what an ignorant thing to say... I have not really felt the need to ever become a pagan, but at least they actually know what their religion is about..

this is the type of "Burn the witch" mentality that enforced such stupid and imposing religious dogma's on people for so long and is why people are so spiritually inept today.

its not "The pagans" .. its not "The druids" .... and christians are certainly NOT the saviour.... sorry to brake this to you.

Icke talks about how the Illuminati have always required blood sacrifice for their rituals, but it is Christianity that forced these rituals into SECRET. Now you would turn them lose on humanity again with your complete ignorance.

Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it.

your ignorance sends a shiver down my spine....

Christianity drove it under ground???????

what on earth are you talking about???? ... the "Elite" have always done it and are meant to be doing it today!! .. the reason they do it under ground is they don't want people to know they are doing it...

the only thing you hero's managed to do is prevent the masses from learning anything about it and useing any form of knowledge to help tilt the scales.... instead people fell to there knees and begged for Jesus to save them... anyone who used magick or practised any other form of spirituality was deemed evil and killed... mean while the people who created christianity enjoyed the fruits of their knowledge (which is why they were so powerful to start with, in case you had not noticed) and continued to do rituals... just because they brought an end to other savages around the world who also wanted to rule the world, it does not mean they saved the world.... have you not noticed their goal?

Are you also going to tell us Bush was good for going and stopping Sadam H and Bin laden? ....

My word, Wake up!

Sorry, you are a perfect example of how clueless religion can make people.

Who do you think was in control of the world when "Christianity" "saved it"?

[demonlover]

----------------------

Prove the above accusations. I can definitely prove that nearly every ancient Classical religion demanded daily blood and human sacrifice. No wonder the people turned against paganism! But you are too simple, too naive, too brainwashed to be grateful you no longer have to take your first born down to the temple to have its throat cut.

In ancient Greece - you did not make a MOVE without a blood sacrifice to the oracle. Read the Greek and Roman historians. Read HERODOTUS - you will be stunned by the cruelty, the slavery, the castrations, the torture, the slaughter of innocents, the unquestioning enthusiastim for BLOOD SACRIFICE including child sacrifice that was de rigeur among the ancients.

It's ironic, David Icke talks about how the evil Illuminati have ruled the world for thousands of years = YES they WERE THE PAGANS. Icke talks about how the Illuminati have always required blood sacrifice for their rituals, but it is Christianity that forced these rituals into SECRET. Now you would turn them lose on humanity again with your complete ignorance.

Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it.What about the atrocities of the bible? They were just as sick. Jehova Yahweh required blood (or so man thought) just like the pagan deities. Christianity represents HUMAN sacrifice which was Jesus, just as cruel. So christianity is no different with it's belief.

[thirdwave]

What about the atrocities of the bible? They were just as sick. Jehova Yahweh required blood (or so man thought) just like the pagan deities. Christianity represents HUMAN sacrifice which was Jesus, just as cruel. So christianity is no different with it's belief.

shockingly this is somthing they choose to ignore...

the fact that their whole religion is based on a human sacrifice... a very gruesome one at that... one that Jesus him self created a ritual for the night before his sacrifice... where he asked people to eat bread as his body and drink wine as his blood....

oh, but we are just not feeling the holy spirit i guess.. and he did it for us, so its our fault as well.

[drakul]

What about the atrocities of the bible? They were just as sick. Jehova Yahweh required blood (or so man thought) just like the pagan deities. Christianity represents HUMAN sacrifice which was Jesus, just as cruel. So christianity is no different with it's belief.

Typical tactic - quote from the god of the Old Testament who demanded blood sacrifice. This is the daemon and his minions the sanhedrin who had Jesus killed.

The worst thing that ever happened to Christianity was the `JUDAIZATION' of Jesus - under Jewish pressure the Old Testament was added to the Bible and composes 2/3 of it. Old Testament has nothing to do with Jesus Christ - nearly all his teachings were critical of and against the Jewish religion.

There was huge opposition to adding the Jewish books to the Bible. MARCION bishop of Sinope, published the FIRST Bible which contained ONLY the New Testament in 140AD.

Strictly speaking, Jesus was not even `Jewish' (ie from JUDAH). Jesus was from GALILEE as were most of his followers. Gallilee was primarily populated by Philistines (Greeks) and Samaritans. Remember Jesus' parable `The Good Samaritan' where the Jewish sanhedrin deliberately ignored a dying man on the road? It is no accident that most of Jesus' apostles went to Greek Asia Minor and to Greece itself. Christianity received the most acceptance by the Greeks and in Egypt which had previously been a Greek possession. The Jews on the other hand, were killing Christians. The oldest existing Bible, from 200AD, the Codex Sinaiticus is written in Greek and was found in a Greek monastary, St. Catherines on Mt Sinai in Egypt - the oldest monastary in the world.

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

Hi Drakul:

Perhaps you may answer a query the Gnosticists will not service.

Why did Yahshua Messiah and His apostles instruct from the Old Testament; the Scriptures, and exhort one and all to obey the Commandments of YHWH?

Yahshua Messiah is Hebrew, as are all His Apostles.

Why did they constantly 'Cite' the Patriarchs and Prophets? And tell us to heed them?

Thank You.

[drakul]

Hi Drakul:

Perhaps you may answer a query the Gnosticists will not service.

Why did Yahshua Messiah and His apostles instruct from the Old Testament; the Scriptures, and exhort one and all to obey the Commandments of YHWH?

Yahshua Messiah is Hebrew, as are all His Apostles.

Why did they constantly 'Cite' the Patriarchs and Prophets? And tell us to heed them?

Thank You.


What are the `scriptures and the commandments of Jehovah'?

The TORAH.

Did Jesus teach the Torah? Lets ask the Jews -


TORAH OBSERVANCE

The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot (commandments) remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)

Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. (see John 1:45 and 9:16, Acts 3:22 and 7:37) For example, John 9:14 records that Jesus made a paste in violation of Shabbat, which caused the Pharisees to say (verse 16), "He does not observe Shabbat!"

Judaism online -

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/jewsandjesus.htm


How could Jesus instruct the people (not the Jews because many of Jesus' followers were NOT Jews, but Gallileans: Philistines, Caannanites, Ammonites, etc who formed the majority in Gallilee), when Jesus himself not only did not observe but actively PREACHED AGAINST THE TORAH?

Yes Jesus mentions keeping `The Law', but whose law? What law? Does he say `keep the Torah'? No.

Of course that is the heart of the stunning difference between the Old and New Testaments - clearly they are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GODS. The God of the OT required multitudes of BLOOD SACRIFICE. It was a God of vengance, jealousy and cunning.

Yes Jesus did mention the prophets, Isaiah, etc, but usually only as a frame of reference to justify his positions. Such as when Jesus was questioned by the Pharisees whose intent was to entrap him. Keep in mind that Galilee was ruled by the Jewish Herodians as proxies for the Romans.

[thirdwave]

What are the `scriptures and the commandments of Jehovah'?

The TORAH.

Did Jesus teach the Torah? Lets ask the Jews -


TORAH OBSERVANCE

The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot (commandments) remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)

Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. (see John 1:45 and 9:16, Acts 3:22 and 7:37) For example, John 9:14 records that Jesus made a paste in violation of Shabbat, which caused the Pharisees to say (verse 16), "He does not observe Shabbat!"

Judaism online -

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/jewsandjesus.htm


How could Jesus instruct the people (not the Jews because many of Jesus' followers were NOT Jews, but Gallileans: Philistines, Caannanites, Ammonites, etc who formed the majority in Gallilee), when Jesus himself not only did not observe but actively PREACHED AGAINST THE TORAH?

Yes Jesus mentions keeping `The Law', but whose law? What law? Does he say `keep the Torah'? No.

Of course that is the heart of the stunning difference between the Old and New Testaments - clearly they are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GODS. The God of the OT required multitudes of BLOOD SACRIFICE. It was a God of vengance, jealousy and cunning.

Yes Jesus did mention the prophets, Isaiah, etc, but usually only as a frame of reference to justify his positions. Such as when Jesus was questioned by the Pharisees whose intent was to entrap him. Keep in mind that Galilee was ruled by the Jewish Herodians as proxies for the Romans.

Can you elaborate when you say "frame of reference" ... do you mean he was lying to them?... or are you trying to say that he was saying he will for fill the OT but just in a different way??.... what do you mean?


"Matthew
5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

[drakul]

If you read back on my post I think that explains some of your questions.

Jesus always spoke in parables. He had to. Otherwise he could be stoned to death as a False Prophet. As I said - Jeus obliquely referred to `The Law'. But he doesn't specify WHAT LAW? Whose Law? Certainly the `laws' of love and mercy that Jesus preached do not match the laws/Torah of the God of the OT. I mean multitudes of people have noticed this huge gap. This huge discrepancy betw the Gods/Laws of the OT and NT have been questioned and debated for thousands of years.

The OT really has no place in Christianity. It is basically just a violence-filled history of the Jewish people in which murder and blood sacrifice is justified and required. Because of the OT we Christians have this parasite called ISRAHELL riding on our backs. For 50 years the US has been compelled to give billions in tax money which should be going to our own people. And now we also have to give the blood of our young people in the Middle East/Iraq - `BECAUSE IT IS OUR CHRISTIAN DUTY TO DIE FOR GOD'S SACRED PEOPLE'. Now they are even pushing the US to attack IRAN.

The Zionists could never get away with this without the avid support of the US Christian AMEN CORNER. Recently there has been a huge media push to `RE-JUDAIZE JESUS'. We may despise Christianity, but never forget - Jesus was a Jew.

[phildee3]

Jesus always spoke in parables. He had to. Otherwise he could be stoned to death as a False Prophet.



The reason for speaking in parables is that the spiritual world cannot be described except by using analogies with the physical.

Jesus did not need to hide, or protect himself.
Angels did this until his "hour had come."

[drakul]

The reason for speaking in parables is that the spiritual world cannot be described except by using analogies with the physical.

Jesus did not need to hide, or protect himself.
Angels did this until his "hour had come."


Actually that's not true. Jesus had to return to Galilee to continue preaching because his life was endangered in Judea.

[phildee3]

Actually that's not true. Jesus had to return to Galilee to continue preaching because his life was endangered in Judea.



If you're referring to John Ch. 4, it does not state that as the reason.
You can interpret it that way
OR
you can interpret it so that he left Judea because the disciples were there, doing the work on his behalf, and he wasn't needed.
Why were his disciples safe there? They were the ones doing the preaching and baptising!

[dlb2007]

The old testiment is tantamount to the Christian belief system. The new testiment is hidden in the old testiment and the old testiment is revealed in the new.

The crossing of the river jordan into the "promised land" in the old is symbolic of Baptism

The "passover" is symbolic of the "last supper"

The Ark of the Covenant is symbolic of Mary the Mother of Christ.

His ministry was fortold in the pages of the old testiment, to say the OT is not worthy of being in the bible is "heresey" of the highest order

the God of the OT did not change, he is still the same God, it is our possition regarding God that has Changed.

Christianity does not represent HUMAN sacrafice, but self sacrafice in favour of the divine will, even unto death if needs be in the knowledge that we do not die with our mortal bodies. We are a light unto the world, a beacon of faith, hope and love. We are angles, messengers of God to a dying world. The World is not saved yet, we have our part to play.

You are aware of the evil plans to set up mankind as the God of the whole world an anti christian one world government.... Christian have their part to play in opposition to it.

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

What are the `scriptures and the commandments of Jehovah'?
The TORAH.
Did Jesus teach the Torah? Lets ask the Jews -

TORAH OBSERVANCE

The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot (commandments) remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)

Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. (see John 1:45 and 9:16, Acts 3:22 and 7:37) For example, John 9:14 records that Jesus made a paste in violation of Shabbat, which caused the Pharisees to say (verse 16), "He does not observe Shabbat!"

Judaism online -

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/jewsandjesus.htm


How could Jesus instruct the people (not the Jews because many of Jesus' followers were NOT Jews, but Gallileans: Philistines, Caannanites, Ammonites, etc who formed the majority in Gallilee), when Jesus himself not only did not observe but actively PREACHED AGAINST THE TORAH?

Yes Jesus mentions keeping `The Law', but whose law? What law? Does he say `keep the Torah'? No.

Of course that is the heart of the stunning difference between the Old and New Testaments - clearly they are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GODS. The God of the OT required multitudes of BLOOD SACRIFICE. It was a God of vengance, jealousy and cunning.

Yes Jesus did mention the prophets, Isaiah, etc, but usually only as a frame of reference to justify his positions. Such as when Jesus was questioned by the Pharisees whose intent was to entrap him. Keep in mind that Galilee was ruled by the Jewish Herodians as proxies for the Romans.

Drakul; Apparently you are a Gnosticist which is opposition to the Scriptures, both the Old and New Testament. Nobody can HONESTLY read the New Testament and conclude Yahshua Messiah and the Apostles did not Teach and Uphold the Laws of Yahweh. Many hundreds of Verses refute everyone of your assertions.

Not one of your Cited Verses supports your assertions. Yahshua was against Rabbinical Traditions/Talmud; not the 613 Laws; Judgements and Statutes of Yahweh.

You and Phildee cannot even define the words: god, righteousness, sin, iniquity and many others. Anybody who actually reads these Books are well aware it is the same Creator Being in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. What eludes the Gnosticists is Yahshua Messiah provided the Proper understanding of the Laws, not the Rabbinical musings, but Yahwehs intent.

The Sabbath was made for the man, not man for the Sabbath. We are not to perform Capitalistic pursuits, chase money. If I need to build a fire to warm my family, or help someone, this is not a problem.

Acts 3:22 & 7:37 is a quote from Deuteronomy 18:15, 18, 19

Deuteronomy 18:18 (a prophecy from YHWH through Mosheh about Yahshua)

I suggest you read Acts 10, when the Apostle Kepha is summoned to the home of Cornelius, the Roman Centurion. This is when ALL Gentiles were cleansed. To say Yahshua Messiah actively preached against the Laws of YHWH is completely false without one Verse, kept in context, to substantiate that position.

Until you and phil can HONESTLY define the words: Righteous/ness, Sin and Iniquity, you will not Honestly understand Scripture.

Explain these few Verses.

1 Yahchanan (john) 3:4- Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law, for sin is Transgression of the Law.

Romans 2:13-For not the hearers of the Law are the Righteous in the sight of Yahweh, but the doers of the Law.

Romans 7:12- Therefore the Law is Holy, and the Commandments are Holy, and just, and righteous.

Mattithyah(matthew) 22:36,37,38-Teacher what is the greatest Commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest Commandment.

The above Verse is an exact citation of Deuteronomy 6:4-6

Mattithyah 22:39-40- And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two Commandments hang(depend) ALL the Law and the Prophets.

this is a Citation of Leviticus 19:18

Mattithyah 5:17 Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets, I have not come to destroy them, but to establish them.

This is the Message to ALL Nations and peoples: Acts 10:35-But in every Nation he who Reverences Him, and works Righteousness, is accepted by Him.

Revelation 22:14- Blessed are those who do His Commandments, that they may have right to the Tree of Life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Drakul, I suggest you examine the origins of Gnnosticism, as it is rooted in the Babylonian Mystery School, and was ultimately disseminated from Alexandria Egypt into the Greco-Roman world. It is a Stumbling Block that impedes an HONEST understanding of the Scriptures, Both the Old and New Testaments.

Christian Gnosticism is a False representation of the Bible. An attempt by the Mystery Schools to usurp Yahshua Messiah.

Do some Etymological studies and use the Messiahs correct Name.

[phildee3]

Do some Etymological studies and use the Messiahs correct Name.



That would be Yesu in Ireland 2000 years ago.

[thirdwave]

If you read back on my post I think that explains some of your questions.

Jesus always spoke in parables. He had to. Otherwise he could be stoned to death as a False Prophet. How have you come to that conclusion though? ... he came here to die for us because of him claiming to be the messiah.... that was his job to come here and be killed by people who denyed him.. And now you say that he was twisting what he said so they would not kill him?

As I said - Jeus obliquely referred to `The Law'. But he doesn't specify WHAT LAW? Whose Law? Certainly the `laws' of love and mercy that Jesus preached do not match the laws/Torah of the God of the OT. I mean multitudes of people have noticed this huge gap. This huge discrepancy betw the Gods/Laws of the OT and NT have been questioned and debated for thousands of years.


Why do you only feel that what Jesus says is all that counts when it is the bible that has delivered Jesus to you, and in the bible, in both T's there is violence promoted... and you have just contradicted you self, as you know the people he was talking to because you have stated why he was afraid of them as they looked to another God and up held that Law.... So to say you don't know what Law he was referring to is just does not make sense , when its quite clear what Law he was referring too... what other Law was there? what other known prophets did he mean?




The OT really has no place in Christianity. It is basically just a violence-filled history of the Jewish people in which murder and blood sacrifice is justified and required. Because of the OT we Christians have this parasite called ISRAHELL riding on our backs. For 50 years the US has been compelled to give billions in tax money which should be going to our own people. And now we also have to give the blood of our young people in the Middle East/Iraq - `BECAUSE IT IS OUR CHRISTIAN DUTY TO DIE FOR GOD'S SACRED PEOPLE'. Now they are even pushing the US to attack IRAN.

You are perfectly entitled to that opinion but the fact remains that the bible does inculde the OT.... and it is relevent to the NT.... which is why it is called the NEW TESTAMENT.... its just not only was it slightly dated back then but today it is hugley transparant so people like your self think you can cut it out of the picutre.... you can of course but the bible is still the bible..

people can have what ever view on Jesus as they like and who really knows the real deal... but the fact is Jesus did not create Christians.... the bible did... because if it was not for the bible Christians would not have know about Jesus... and the people who created the bible very much incided the OT.

which is why Christianity is based on an individuals faith and point of view.... not fact.


The Zionists could never get away with this without the avid support of the US Christian AMEN CORNER. Recently there has been a huge media push to `RE-JUDAIZE JESUS'. [I]We may despise Christianity, but never forget - Jesus was a Jew.

We are not talking about the Zionists .... we are talking about the bible... pure and simple... and if you expose the people who put the OT there.... then you are going to have to expose the same people who created it.

[thirdwave]

You are aware of the evil plans to set up mankind as the God of the whole world an anti christian one world government.... Christian have their part to play in opposition to it.

I believe man kind does... and being Christian has nothing to do with it what's so ever.... if man kind needs "Christians" to save the world then it is a sign we are not ready to do what needs to be done....

[kasalt]

Nobody can HONESTLY read the New Testament and conclude Yahshua Messiah and the Apostles did not Teach and Uphold the Laws of Yahweh. Many hundreds of Verses refute everyone of your assertions.

Not one of your Cited Verses supports your assertions. Yahshua was against Rabbinical Traditions/Talmud; not the 613 Laws; Judgements and Statutes of Yahweh.

Jesus repudiated the laws of kosher food (Mark 7:18-19). [Compare this to the prophet Daniel's strict adherence to kashrus, in Daniel chapter 1.]

He repudiated the laws of honoring one's parents, and called on his followers to hate their parents; he also dishonored his own mother (Matthew 10:34-37; Matthew 12:46-50; Luke 14:26).

He violated the Sabbath by picking grain, and incited his disciples to do the same (Matthew 12:1-8; Mark 2:23-26).

He again violated the Sabbath by healing a man's arm, which was not a matter of saving a life, and he openly defied the rabbis in his total repudiation of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:9-13; Mark 3:1-5). [Compare this to G-d's view of violating the Sabbath, in Numbers 15:32-36, Nehemiah 10:30-32, and dozens of other places throughout the Bible.]

[drakul]

Jesus repudiated the laws of kosher food (Mark 7:18-19). [Compare this to the prophet Daniel's strict adherence to kashrus, in Daniel chapter 1.]

He repudiated the laws of honoring one's parents, and called on his followers to hate their parents; he also dishonored his own mother (Matthew 10:34-37; Matthew 12:46-50; Luke 14:26).

He violated the Sabbath by picking grain, and incited his disciples to do the same (Matthew 12:1-8; Mark 2:23-26).

He again violated the Sabbath by healing a man's arm, which was not a matter of saving a life, and he openly defied the rabbis in his total repudiation of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:9-13; Mark 3:1-5). [Compare this to G-d's view of violating the Sabbath, in Numbers 15:32-36, Nehemiah 10:30-32, and dozens of other places throughout the Bible.]


Jesus also repudiated `The Law' by refusing to wash his hands before eating.

[drakul]

How have you come to that conclusion though? ... he came here to die for us because of him claiming to be the messiah.... that was his job to come here and be killed by people who denyed him.. And now you say that he was twisting what he said so they would not kill him?

Why do you only feel that what Jesus says is all that counts when it is the bible that has delivered Jesus to you, and in the bible, in both T's there is violence promoted... and you have just contradicted you self, as you know the people he was talking to because you have stated why he was afraid of them as they looked to another God and up held that Law.... So to say you don't know what Law he was referring to is just does not make sense , when its quite clear what Law he was referring too... what other Law was there? what other known prophets did he mean?

You are perfectly entitled to that opinion but the fact remains that the bible does inculde the OT.... and it is relevent to the NT.... which is why it is called the NEW TESTAMENT.... its just not only was it slightly dated back then but today it is hugley transparant so people like your self think you can cut it out of the picutre.... you can of course but the bible is still the bible..

people can have what ever view on Jesus as they like and who really knows the real deal... but the fact is Jesus did not create Christians.... the bible did... because if it was not for the bible Christians would not have know about Jesus... and the people who created the bible very much incided the OT.




You say `The Bible created Christians, not Jesus'? What Bible? There were many Bibles that came long before the stripped down King James version.

Keep a few things in mind, Christianity had ALREADY become popular and powerful throughout the Roman empire and BEYOND by the time of the Council of Nicea in 325AD. ETHIOPIA converted to Christianity then and so had many Indians in Southern India. Yes there are 150 million Christians in South India today who date their conversion from approx 300AD. The accepted version of the Bible that we use today came long after that. And I would put it to you that the Bible has been STRIPPED of its original charismatic content and INTERPOLATED to suit the pagan priests i.e. the PTB.

The Anti-Christs like Maxwell and Acharya have you think that everyone had to be violently converted to Christianity. Did it ever occur to you that people might have been SICK of the requisite pagan BLOOD SACFRIFICES? Pagan temples were literally slaughterhouses. On high holy days, literally thousands of animals had their throats cut. Have you ever seen a bull have its throat cut? The blood literally shoots feet into the air, GALLONS OF BLOOD. Nice. Wonderful way to become more spiritual, to honor `the gods'. Then there were the human sacrifices...

How were the Christians identified by the Romans??? They REFUSED TO OFFER SACRIFICES.

ROME was one of the LAST Mediterranean countries to accept Christianity. The Christian movement went first to the GREEKS and all the Greek-speaking countries of Asia Minor and the Mediterranean including Syria, Egypt, etc. Emperor Constantine was not Roman. He was born in Serbia. His father, Constantius was Thracian and his mother Helena a `lowborn tavern maid' of Serbia.

Constantine despised Rome and moved the capitol to Constantinople - this was the SECOND ROME. Christianity was the rebellion and triumph of Greek culture over the brutality of Rome.

In Rome there are Tauroctomy inscriptions on Vatican Hill dating to 414 AD - the leading citizens were still doing TAUROCTOMIES then and holding Gladiatorial Games, 150 yrs AFTER the Council of Nicea banned BLOOD SACRIFICE. It is from the brutal INQUISITIONS of the PAGAN PRIESTHOOD who still rule the VATICAN (under the guise of Christianity) that the Anti-Christs get the ammunition for their hatred of Jesus.

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

Kasalt:

You are entirely wrong. Read Acts 10. The unclean foods remain unclean.

Yahshua Messiah was completely aware of Yahwehs intentions regarding His Laws, that they were not to be a Burden. ie: Anal.

I suggest you peruse the Verses I provided. There are many hundreds more, if you require more clarification.

The Weekly Sabbath is the 'Sign'; 'Mark' between Yahweh and His peeps, whether Yahdaim or Gentile.

Yahshua loved His Mother and Father dearly. Most people do not understand that Yahwehs Mission, which Yahshua was going about, had precedence over Familial and Social obligations.

Yahshua was considered by Yahweh, and those who are AWARE, that He was/is the Unblemished Lamb. He fulfilled YHWHs Mission perfectly. As a matter of Fact, when Yahweh resurrected Yahshua, HaSatan lost the War. Keep in mind Kasalt, there is very little time left for the Evil Ones, and they know it.

Let's be clear about the Weekly Sabbath obligation. You do not conduct Business or work for Material gain from Friday Sundown until Saturday Sundown. I can pursue material gain 6/24.

The whole Book is about personal intent. What are your intentions motivating your actions. (a rhetorical question)

None of the New Age Gnosticists will Biblically define: Righteous/ness; Sin or Iniquity.

Do you want to take a stab at them? o yeah, I've asked you also numerous times.

When you understand the meaning of these three words, reread the NT and get back to me.

It's all about intentions Kasalt. What is in a persons Heart. Yahweh knows.

Yahweh and Yahshua have alread won!

Hallelu Yahweh!!

I am sure your Elohistic Talmudist allies (the Hasidic Cult from Brooklyn) disagree, we could care less.

Also, i've Posted it numerous times; Romans 14

Romans 14

Precepts of the Law of Liberty

Accept one who is weak in the faith, but not if he wants to argue and dispute.

For one believes that he may eat all Lawful things; another, who is weak, eats only vegetables. Do not let him who eats be despiteful of him who does not eat, and do not let him who does not eat condemn him who eats; for YHWH has accepted him into His House.

Who are you to condemn someone elses servant? To his own ruler he stands or falls. And he will stand, for YHWH is able to make him stand

One person considers one Feast more holy than another; another considers every Feast of the same holiness. Let everyone be fully warned in his own mind.

He who keeps the Feast, keeps it to YHWH, for he gives thank to Yahweh. And he who eats, eats to Yahweh, for he gives thank to Yahweh. And he who does not eat to Yahweh, is not eating to, nor is thanking Yahweh.

[B]For none of us lives of himself, and no man dies of himself.

For if we live, we live in Yahweh forever; but if we die; we will die in Yahweh. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are Yahwehs.

For this very reason Yahshua died and was restored to life again, that He might be the Judge of both the dead and the living.

But why do you pass judgement on your brother? Or why do you look down upon your brother? For we will all stand before the Judgement Seat of Yahshua.

For it is written: As surely as I live, says Yahweh, every knee will bow to Me, and every tongue will confess to Yahweh.(Isayah 45:23)

So then, each one of us will give an account of himself to Yahweh.

Therefore, let us stop passing judgement on one another. Instead, set your mind not to put any stumblingblock, or an occasion of falling, in our brothers way.

For I know, and am convinced by Yahshuah Messiah, that nothing is common in itself; except to the one accounting anything to be common-to that man, it is common.

But if your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not destroy him for whom Yahshua died, with your food.

Therefore do not allow your righteousness to be spoken of as evil.

For the Kingdom of Yahweh is not food and drink, but righteousness and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit:

This is the Essence of the Book

I've also mentioned before that Yahweh is implementing a Plan, for Humankind, that is Evolutionary and Progressive. The Plan is Dynamic, not Static.

Define those words, and you will begin to understand the Book.

[drakul]

SNUFFY - `Yahshua Messiah'.

First of all Jesus is NOT `Yahshua Messiah' because the JEWS DON'T ACCEPT HIM.

He is JeZEUS.

What were some of Jesus last words on the cross? Did he call out for `Yahweh'? No. Jesus called out in Aramaic -

Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani - My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

So why are you interpolating all these Hebrew names? The King James Bible quotes Jesus as saying LORD not Yahweh.

As far as me being a Gnostic. I don't think so. I am much closer to being a Sufi. I worked with a Sufi master from Baghdad for several years. With Sufism it's all about mastering techniques for spiritual EXPERIENCE not interpreting and interpolating books as if that was the key to spirituality. The Sufis of Syria claim they were originally CHRISTIANS but had to nominally convert when they were conquered by the Arab muslims. As far as I am concerned, Sufi worship is what church SHOULD be like instead of the stuffed shirt stand up sit down, kneel of Christianity today. But I still consider myself a Christian and I think the teachings of JeZEUS are wonderful.

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

While I am on-line, I would like to bring attention to the increasing crescendo of Anti-Semitism on this Board due to ill informed ignorance.

New-Age Gnosticists attempts to remove Yahweh from the New Testament, the De-Hebrewizing of Yahshua Messiah and His Apostles, utilising ancient Rabbinical musings to Denigrate Yahweh, His Laws and His Peoples.

They have laid the Foundation for the Thread extolling the purported 'Virtues' of Adolph Hitler and more recently, a Poster is suggesting a Reboot of National Socialism, as promoted by Hitler.

For those of us who do understand and believe this Book, there are only two sides. Yahwehs and HaSatans. There is no in between. And for those of you that don't understand this subject, haven't been informed accurately, this does not mean you are going to Hell for Eternity. You will be in the Second Resurrection, where you will enjoy 100 years of expert Tutelage. :)

The majority of the Worlds population, for numerous reasons, have rejected and opposed YHWH and His Laws and Plan for 6,000 years. We are witnessing the Fruit of these choices everyday.

They prefer HaSatans way.

Personally, I am apalled, but not surprised.

There is no NWO, that is BS. It has been around for 6,000 years. Truly, there is nothing new under the sun.

[dlb2007]

I believe man kind does... and being Christian has nothing to do with it what's so ever.... if man kind needs "Christians" to save the world then it is a sign we are not ready to do what needs to be done....

Your not thinking clearly, your seperating christians from mankind.

We are all Christians.

did that shock you?


Let me spell it out for you.... we are all Children of the most high lord god almighty.

The Message of Christ is that we as a whole (mankind) need to sacrafice our own selfish will in order to live according to the divine will of God and doing so will be the salvation of the world, for mankinds path is destruction

A Christian is a member of mankind that recognises this and carrys that message to others.

Mankind as a whole is headed towards this precipice of seting up a supreme global government, does mankinds ambitions in this respect seek to serve the will of God or does it seek to serve its own agenda?

Mankind has suffered terribly because we choose to decide for ourselves what is Good and What is evil thus not doing the will of God which is the real evil. God warned adam and eve not to eat the fruit but they were tempted by satans promise that they could be like God and they "saw that it was GOOD to eat the fruit" and God said "mankind has become LIKE US (trinity) knowing Good and evil.

The bible fortells of the one world government and the anti christ of the mark of the beast and the end of times, all this is fortold in the bible and we can see it unfolding before our eyes are these men who represent mankind serving the will of God or their own agenda, the bible states their own agenda, how will we know them "by their fruits" - War, starvation, greed, tyranny, death and desutruction. Satan was a liar and a murderer from the begining. Homosexuality is not in accordance with the divine will, yet not only is it accepted it is applauded and promoted by the powers that be

"they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. " Romans - 1:32

They seek to raise themselves up as God's of mankind deciding who shall live and who shall die, (abortion & euthenasia) they seek to fashon mankind after their own image, according to their desires and wants (Cloning)

The people of God, of his son. stand in objection to these men and women and say homosexuality should not be promoted, abortion should not be legal, euthenasia is not a good idea and human cloning, GM babies are against the divine will of God, and the people of God are hated for it, they are persecuted by the media, they are mocked by the people, they are told to remove their nonsense from schools and court rooms, they are sent packing and their leader is condmened as a nazi as the anti christ himself and in some parts of the world they are even killed for their objection.

Yes we are all Christians, we are all Gods children but some do not know that and some do not care and some say f**k god.

It all boils down to this, either we go with God or these evil b*rds.

A Christian is only one who says "I choose God" - *CATHOLIC* Church - The *UNIVERSAL* (ALL MANKIND) Church of Christ

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

drakul;662511]SNUFFY -

Drakul, referring to me as 'snuffy' is 'Mickey Mouse', 'Puerile'; 'Infantile' adress me in that manner again, no reply. ok.

`Yahshua Messiah'.

First of all Jesus is NOT `Yahshua Messiah' because the JEWS DON'T ACCEPT HIM.

He is JeZEUS.

FALSE: I've run this around the Block a dozen times, read this; and get back to me. http://www.yahweh.com/PWMags/PW12-04/search.htm

Many millions of Jews do recognise and accept Him, these are the Messianic Jews.


What were some of Jesus last words on the cross? Did he call out for `Yahweh'? No. Jesus called out in Aramaic -

Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani - My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

Incorrect:

Mattithyah 28:46
Yahshua Messiah proclaimed: Yli! Yli! lamah ozibatniy?! which means: My Strength! My Strength! Why have you forsaken me?! Some of those who stood there, when they heard that, said: This Man calls for Yliyah(Elijah=Strength of YHWH)

This is an excellent example of why the Old Testament is integral to understanding the New Testament. Yahshua Messiah, while dying on the stake, began to recite Psalm 22. The Psalm begins as a Lamentation and resolves with Praise and Homage to Yahweh.

So why are you interpolating all these Hebrew names? The King James Bible quotes Jesus as saying LORD not Yahweh.

Because they are all Hebrews, the New Testament was originally scribed in Hebrew. The early Anti-Semites sought out all the Hebrew texts they could find and destroyed them. There has been a 2,000 year long effort to usurp this information, which has failed. This is a decent look into this matter, I have much more. http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=382725&postcount=3

You may find the entire Thread informative, I know I did.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28141

As far as me being a Gnostic. I don't think so. I am much closer to being a Sufi. I worked with a Sufi master from Baghdad for several years. With Sufism it's all about mastering techniques for spiritual EXPERIENCE not interpreting and interpolating books as if that was the key to spirituality. The Sufis of Syria claim they were originally CHRISTIANS but had to nominally convert when they were conquered by the Arab muslims. As far as I am concerned, Sufi worship is what church SHOULD be like instead of the stuffed shirt stand up sit down, kneel of Christianity today. But I still consider myself a Christian and I think the teachings of JeZEUS are wonderful.

The subject of the Old and New Testament is Yahwism, the Messiah is included from the beginning as part of Yahwehs Plan. It is a 6,000 year Plan. This 'School of Thought' is entirely different than all the other Schools. It is Unique, like Yahweh Himself, and His only 'Begotten' Son; Yahshua. They are both UNIQUE.

This Lad is well qualified to clue you up on this matter:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40255

http://www.michaelsheiser.com/

The 'Spiritual' experience begins with ones beginning of conforming to the Persona of Yahshua who conformed to the Persona of Yahweh. there are no Mysteries or Secrets, it is up to the individuals personal behaviour. The more one aligns oneself to Yahweh and Yahshua, the more 'Spiritual' experience will become. To have the Powers Yahshua demonstrated, one has to be TRUSTED by Yahweh not to misuse the Power for personal 'gain'.

A very beautiful discipline. Crawl, Walk, Run; Stroll. :)

No one will emulate Yahshua 'making up' their own Path. The Patriarchs, Prophets, Yahshua Messiah and Apostles have illuminated the Path. Again, no Mysteries, no Secrets. It is for any Human that desires to follow the Path of YHWH.

The System is Meritocracy. It is not who you are, but how you behave.

Lots of Info; checkout the Persona Link
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=459940&postcount=592

Yahwehs Plan
http://www.yahweh.com/PWMags/PW02-06/plan.htm

[psychicdefender]

SNUFFY - `Yahshua Messiah'.

First of all Jesus is NOT `Yahshua Messiah' because the JEWS DON'T ACCEPT HIM.

He is JeZEUS.

First of all, the earliest Christians were all Jewish converts, the Jews today are descendants of those that didn't convert. Some Jews chose to accept him as messiah and some didn't.

Second it is spelt Jesus, there is no 'z' to be found.

Thirdly and this is a shameless cut 'n' paste from wiki,

"The name “Jesus” is an Anglicisation of the Greek Ἰησοῦς (Iēsoûs), itself a Hellenisation of the Hebrew יהושע (Yehoshua) or Hebrew-Aramaic ישוע (Yeshua), meaning “YHWH rescues”. “Christ” is a title derived from the Greek Χριστός (Christós), meaning the “Anointed One”, which corresponds to the Hebrew-derived “Messiah”.[14] Another common name for Jesus, Emmanuel or Immanuel is derived from the Aramaic "Imman-el", which translates as "God with us"."

Of course you will probably continue in your ill informed rants from here till Christ come, don't let me stop ya...

[kasalt]

While I am on-line, I would like to bring attention to the increasing crescendo of Anti-Semitism on this Board due to ill informed ignorance.

You mean anti-Semitism like this?

of what value was the batshit crazy and stoooopid opinion of Talmudic Zionist Hasidics

when you start posting the Talmudic Zionist Hasidic Cults viewpoint, you're done.

hypocrite (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrite)
1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

As you are so fond of saying:

you got three of your fingers pointing right back at you! lol

[eternal_spirit]

Maybe Jesus was an Arab? And he's fooled you all!

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

Kasalt,
You have just proved you don't know what the term means. What I posted was not Anti-Semetism, rather it was a disparagement of a batshit crazy cult, your Allies. Nothing to do with their Ethnicity or Religion, rather their Doctrines and practices. As always your discernment is feeble, at best.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=0&oi=define&q=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Semetic&usg=AFQjCNE4jkz6UKSDl4K83zpBn25-QV6N8g
Antisemitism (alternatively spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism; also rarely known as judeophobia) is prejudice against or hostility toward Jews as a group. The prejudice or hostility is usually characterized by a combination of religious, racial, cultural and ethnic biases. While the term's etymology might suggest that antisemitism is directed against all Semitic peoples, since its creation it has been used exclusively to refer to hostility towards Jews

You are only kidding yourself Kasalt, many are 'Hep' to you. ;)

So where is the Hypocricy? Yeah, its you! lol

Why don't you adress the Subject of the Post, is it because you embrace the philosophy of the Posts I was referring to? Did I strike a nerve? You had an opportunity to express yourself on that matter, an extremely serious matter, yet you took a pass and decided to Break my chops.

Why is that?

[kasalt]

Yahshua Messiah was completely aware of Yahwehs intentions regarding His Laws, that they were not to be a Burden. ie: Anal.

I suggest you peruse the Verses I provided. There are many hundreds more, if you require more clarification.

The Weekly Sabbath is the 'Sign'; 'Mark' between Yahweh and His peeps, whether Yahdaim or Gentile.


Do you think Yahweh was being "anal" when he called for the killing of the guy who was picking up sticks on the Sabbath? If not, why not?

Numbers 15:32-36
32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

Thank You Kasalt, thanx to you I have Posted about Yahweh about ten times more than I had ever intended. Even you serve Yahweh, willingly or not. lol!

As always you extract a few Verses out of context. This man had been warned about this practice on a prior occassion. And keep in mind, the body was killed, not the Soul, this mans Soul will 'sleep' until one of the Two Resurrections, when he will have a Meet and Greet with the Bigs. Yeah, no Reincarnation. Read Romans 14...again, and again until you understand it.

The guy had 6 days of 24 hours to gather sticks, he obstinately defied the Priests and Congregations, so they made an example of him. As I had just Posted, YHWHs Plan is Evolutionary and Progressive.

What did Yahshua Messiah tell the mob that wanted to Stone to Death the Adulteress? Let they without sin cast the first stone. Under the Law, she was guilty, and the Penalty was Death by Lapidation.

You don't seem to be aware of the Core Premise of the Book, all Humans are sinners. We are all under the Death Penalty. Ever since Adam.

From the beginning it was YHWHs Plan to provide us with a Redeemer because He loves us all, and wants no-one to suffer the Second Death.

Kasalt, you really don't understand this Book, do you? It's really not that complicated. Review the Links in Post 592, and read the Plan Link. I know you have them Archived. lol

What did they teach you in that Fundamental Evangelical outfit you swung with? 'just believe?'

[kasalt]

Answer the question, lol!

[kasalt]

This man had been warned about this practice on a prior occassion...

The guy had 6 days of 24 hours to gather sticks, he obstinately defied the Priests and Congregations, so they made an example of him.

I see. So you support the decision to stone to death the man who picked up sticks on the sabbath.

Of course, Jesus and his disciples had "6 days of 24 hours" to gather grain, and yet they chose to do it on the sabbath in obstinate defiance of the Priests and Congregations. But if Yahweh had been around, it would have been death by stoning for all of them.

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

you need to know alot more than that Ace. ;)

[kasalt]

As always you extract a few Verses out of context. This man had been warned about this practice on a prior occassion.

Give me chapter and verse where this man was warned on a prior occasion not to pick up sticks on that day (as if any sane person could ever consider that to be a capital offense anyhow).

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

lol, find it yourself Ace. Thats the problem with extracting out of context.

lol lol lol lol lol


http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x268/AmelieJolie7/animals_laughingPuppy.gif

[kasalt]

Yahweh and Yahshua have alread won!

Hallelu Yahweh!!

I am sure your Elohistic Talmudist allies (the Hasidic Cult from Brooklyn) disagree, we could care less.

It isn't just the Hasidim who believe that way. The fact of the matter is that the whole of Judaism that rejects Jesus as the messiah does so for basically the same reasons--and for additional reasons as well, some of which are enumerated in this Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_view_of_Jesus#Judaism.27s_view_of_the_Messi ah

The Jesus of the Gospels not only did things that were contrary to Jewish teaching (such as violate the sabbath), but he didn't do things that the messiah was prophesied to do, such as gathering the Jews of the Diaspora and returning them to Israel and successfully waging war against Israel's enemies.

[almarenee2]

For us believers, we understand it's the hardest way in the world to live every day as if you will be judged for your actions and how you treat your brothers and sisters. Most want to believe they are their own god (small "g") so they are not accountable to anyone and therefore can "Do as they wilt". Wide is the path into destruction...and very few will find the way.

The Vatican - the HARLOT who will be judged for her evil deeds in the name of Christ Almighty will have her day, just watch everyone, who thinks she stands for Christ! She has perverted the Word of God and therefore, very few people know Jesus (Yeshua) and many will fall from the faith.

But keep knocking for knowledge with an open heart, and He will answer. There really is only one truth in the end. I'd rather be with the Good and Righteous Dictator, just in case He DOES exist, right?

Amen!

[zero]

Religion is a tool of the nwo.

[almarenee2]

That's why it has to be Relationship over Religion. The NWO has their hands in everything. EVERY- THING. As we know.

[zero]

That's why it has to be Relationship over Religion. The NWO has their hands in everything. EVERY- THING. As we know.

That's right. Organizations are always corrupted, if they aren't to begin with.

[phildee3]

That's right. Organizations are always corrupted, if they aren't to begin with.



Absolutely right!!

That's why the true church is not organised.
It is simply the collective of the Christian faithful.
Each of us a living stone in it's structure which cannot be controlled by anyone!

[armoured_amazon]

Absolutely right!!

That's why the true church is not organised.
It is simply the collective of the Christian faithful.
Each of us a living stone in it's structure which cannot be controlled by anyone!

That's right. :)

[dlb2007]

"That's why it has to be Relationship over Religion. The NWO has their hands in everything. EVERY- THING. As we know."

I am not saying that the Catholic Church has not infiltraited, I am sure that there are those working "under cover" in the upper echelons of the vatican but I believe in Christs most powerful promise

"and i say unto you that thou art peter/Cephas (rock) and upon this Rock I will build my church and the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it"

The Church is built on the office of peter, the papal office and it can not be corrupted because it is protected by Christ's promise. Not that the pope can not be corrupt but that he can not err in matters of teaching the faith and morals.

Christ knew his church had to be organised and protected to preserve the truth and to oppose the enslavment of the world from the Anti Christ. Protestantism was/is a tool of the NWO... divide and conqure - over 33000 denominations of protestantism each believe in different things, each proclaiming it as truth, fighting among each other, people not knowing what to believe and so reject Christ out of hand and come to believe in "relative truth"

Jesus warned us this would happen as did peter.

"And numbers of people will be turned from the right way, and will give one another up and have hate for one another. 11 And a number of false prophets will come, causing error. 12 And because wrongdoing will be increased, the love of most people will become cold." - Jesus

"there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. They promise freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability" - Peter

[psychicdefender]

It isn't just the Hasidim who believe that way. The fact of the matter is that the whole of Judaism rejects Jesus as the messiah for basically the same reasons--and for additional reasons as well, some of which are enumerated in this Wikipedia article:

That just isn't true, the earliest converts to Christianity were all Jews, they also converted in large numbers. When you say the 'whole of Judaism rejects Jesus as messiah' what you should actually be saying is 'the Jews that are around today are descendants of those that didn't convert' Therefore it is more truthful to say that some Jews don't recognise Jesus as Messiah.

There are still many Jews who misunderstand the message of Christ because they have been indoctrinated with a 'false' version of his truth. (where the blame for this can be found I don't know) Many Jews convert to Christianity after they study and realise that Jesus is the Messiah (and are ostrachised and persecuted for doing so...),

The fact is that a small minority of the Jewish leadership conspired against an innocent man and had him sentenced to death in a hurry, the trial was not legal as not all members of the leading coucil were present.

[kasalt]

That just isn't true, the earliest converts to Christianity were all Jews, they also converted in large numbers. When you say the 'whole of Judaism rejects Jesus as messiah' what you should actually be saying is 'the Jews that are around today are descendants of those that didn't convert' Therefore it is more truthful to say that some Jews don't recognise Jesus as Messiah.

Yes, of course. I was under the impression that this was obvious to everyone, but perhaps not, so thanks for clarifying.

[psychicdefender]

Yes, of course. I was under the impression that this was obvious to everyone, but perhaps not, so thanks for clarifying.

Glad to be of help.

I'm interested in how you came to the conclusion that the whole of Judaism rejects Jesus as Messiah and at the same time are aware that many Jews have accepted Jesus as Messiah. Sounds a bit contradictory to me, please explain.

[phildee3]

...the earliest converts to Christianity were all Jews,



That's incorrect.
Many gentiles became Christians.
Jesus healed many gentiles who would then follow him.

[armoured_amazon]

That's incorrect.
Many gentiles became Christians.
Jesus healed many gentiles who would then follow him.

Many fruits were grafted into the parent vine. :)

[kasalt]

Glad to be of help.

I'm interested in how you came to the conclusion that the whole of Judaism rejects Jesus as Messiah and at the same time are aware that many Jews have accepted Jesus as Messiah. Sounds a bit contradictory to me, please explain.

Very simply, if I were referring to a person of Jewish extraction who accepts Jesus as Messiah, I would use the term Messianic Jew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Jews), or Jewish Christian, or something to that effect. But if I use the term "Jew" with no further qualifications, I would be referring to a Jewish person who does not accept Jesus as the messiah.

[psychicdefender]

That's incorrect.
Many gentiles became Christians.
Jesus healed many gentiles who would then follow him.

Yes, sorry, Roman centurion being one of them, I too must avoid broad sweeping statements.... :p

[psychicdefender]

Very simply, if I were referring to a person of Jewish extraction who accepts Jesus as Messiah, I would use the term Messianic Jew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Jews), or Jewish Christian, or something to that effect. But if I use the term "Jew" with no further qualifications, I would be referring to a Jewish person who does not accept Jesus as the messiah.

So just for clarification, a Messianic Jew or a Jewish Christian, is still a Jew?

[armoured_amazon]

So just for clarification, a Messianic Jew or a Jewish Christian, is still a Jew?

Yup. And a Christian is a Jew by Godly adoption. :D

[kasalt]

So just for clarification, a Messianic Jew or a Jewish Christian, is still a Jew?

That's not for me to decide.

According to Wikipedia:
"Although many Messianic Jews are ethnically Jewish and argue that Messianic Judaism is a sect of Judaism,[/URL] the various streams of Judaism are unanimous in their rejection of Messianism as a form of Judaism. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Jews#cite_note-MJSelfID-12) Christians and Jews consider Messianic Judaism to be a form of Christianity.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Jews#cite_note-Christians-4"] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Jews#cite_note-Denominations-5)"
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Jews

[psychicdefender]

That's not for me to decide.

Why not? It is a simple question, is a Messianic Jew or Jewish Christian still a Jew?

[kasalt]

Why not? It is a simple question, is a Messianic Jew or Jewish Christian still a Jew?

"The central characteristic defining the Messianic Jewish movement as Christian, rather than Jewish, is its belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ.[/URL] This central tenet of belief is seen by the great majority of Christians and Jews as being the defining distinction between the two religions. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Jews#cite_note-Aish2-3) This is also the opinion of the Supreme Court of Israel regarding immediate and automatic eligibility for Israeli citizenship under the Law of Return (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Jews#cite_note-Denominations-5)...[T]he various streams of Judaism are unanimous in their rejection of Messianism as a form of Judaism. Christians and Jews consider Messianic Judaism to be a form of Christianity." Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Jews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Jews#cite_note-Berman-6)

Law of Return: Messianic Jews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return#Messianic_Jews)
"The Supreme Court of Israel ruled in 1989 that Messianic Judaism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism) constituted another religion, and that Jews who had become Messianic Jews were not therefore eligible for Aliyah under the law. The government of Israel used this ruling to exclude anyone who was a Messianic Jew.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return#cite_note-5"]"

[armoured_amazon]

We call ourselves Christians but there's no such thing defined by Jesus, really. We are adopted through Jesus by God; thus we are his brothers and sisters. Jesus was Jewish. Thus we are spiritual Jews. But labels are not important, anyhoo and the Supreme Court of Israel is wrong. :)

[psychicdefender]

"The central characteristic defining the Messianic Jewish movement as Christian, rather than Jewish, is its belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ.[/URL] This central tenet of belief is seen by the great majority of Christians and Jews as being the defining distinction between the two religions. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Jews#cite_note-Aish2-3) This is also the opinion of the Supreme Court of Israel regarding immediate and automatic eligibility for Israeli citizenship under the Law of Return (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Jews#cite_note-Denominations-5)...[T]he various streams of Judaism are unanimous in their rejection of Messianism as a form of Judaism. Christians and Jews consider Messianic Judaism to be a form of Christianity." Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Jews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Jews#cite_note-Berman-6)

Law of Return: Messianic Jews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return#Messianic_Jews)
"The Supreme Court of Israel ruled in 1989 that Messianic Judaism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism) constituted another religion, and that Jews who had become Messianic Jews were not therefore eligible for Aliyah under the law. The government of Israel used this ruling to exclude anyone who was a Messianic Jew.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return#cite_note-5"]"

Yes, that is an opinion from some men who claim to know better than Jesus, whom some give the title Messiah and others deny and say that he was just a man.

So we have a situation where some men who claim God as their foundation for righteousness (and by that foundation their claim to the land of Israel) declaring that they know the will of God, without any miraculous signs being performed, which have been performed in times past by all those given God's authority. On the other we have a man claiming to be Messiah and who has performed many miraculous signs, not only within his earthly life but also after, and who claims those signs as being witness to his authority and his being the Messiah.

So although it is easy to fall into thinking that Jews are Jews and Messianic Jews are Chirstians it is probably more likely that Jews are no longer Jews, having rejected God's Messiah and that Messianic Jews are in fact 'true Jews'.

All of which I find rather interesting.

[armoured_amazon]

So although it is easy to fall into thinking that Jews are Jews and Messianic Jews are Chirstians it is probably more likely that Jews are no longer Jews, having rejected God's Messiah and that Messianic Jews are in fact 'true Jews'.

All of which I find rather interesting.

Well said. :)

[phildee3]

So although it is easy to fall into thinking that Jews are Jews and Messianic Jews are Chirstians it is probably more likely that Jews are no longer Jews, having rejected God's Messiah and that Messianic Jews are in fact 'true Jews'.



Well, I think it would be more accurate to call them (and all true Christians) "new Jews" since we have a "new Jerusalem."

Surely a true Jew is still wating for their messiah?
Jesus did not fit the criteria.

[armoured_amazon]

Well, I think it would be more accurate to call them (and all true Christians) "new Jews" since we have a "new Jerusalem."

Surely a true Jew is still wating for their messiah?
Jesus did not fit the criteria.

He did.

It is important to begin by saying that for one who has already made up his or her mind that Jesus is not the Messiah, no amount of evidence will be convincing. But for those who are honest in asking, the evidence speaks for itself.

Of course it might be objected that if these "credentials" are so clear, why didn't most Jewish people believe in Jesus, and why were they so taken in by false Messiahs like Bar Kochba and Shabbetai Zevi?

To understand this, one must realize that by the time of Jesus, the Messianic hope had become greatly politicized in the minds of the people. They were seeking deliverance from the tyranny of Rome. Although the Scripture spoke both of the sufferings and of the victories of the Messiah, the victorious aspect had become uppermost in the minds of the common people because of the Roman domination. This "lopsided" view of the Messiah has stuck with Jewish people, and the politicization of the Messianic hope has continued. Thus the hope of a political rather than a spiritual Messiah contributes to both the acceptance of people such as Bar Kochba, and the rejection of Jesus in his role as a Messiah.

What, then, are some of the credentials of the Messiah? Only a few can be listed below; there are many others. All of these passages were recognized by the early rabbis as referring to the Messiah:

* Messiah was to be born at Bethlehem: Micah 5:1
* Messiah would be from the tribe of Judah: Genesis 49:10
* Messiah would present himself by riding on an ass: Zechariah 9:9
* Messiah would be tortured to death: Psalm 22
* Messiah would arrive before the destruction of the Second Temple: Daniel 9:24-27
* Messiah's life would match a particular description, including suffering, silence at his arrest and trial, death and burial in a rich man's tomb, and resurrection: Isaiah 52:13-53:12

In detail as to lineage, birthplace, time, and lifestyle, Jesus matched the Messianic expectations of the Hebrew Scriptures. The record of this fulfillment is to be found in the pages of the New Testament. But several other factors combine to further substantiate the Messiahship of Jesus.

http://jewsforjesus.org/answers/jesus/proofessay

Many Jewish people reject Jesus as their Messiah because they don't take into account ALL the Tanakh prophecies concerning the Messiah. Many Jews believe that the Messiah will establish a physical kingdom on earth and that Messiah will be simply a man and not God. We will prove with the Hebrew Scriptures that Messiah is God also and that it was prophesied that Messiah would die a violent death and would reconcile the people back to God.
It was prophesied that Messiah would make two appearances. First time-- to die for the sins of the people and the second time, to establish a physical Kingdom upon this earth in the future.

http://www.geocities.com/cobblestoneministries/2006/Jews_Jesus.html

[psychicdefender]

Well, I think it would be more accurate to call them (and all true Christians) "new Jews" since we have a "new Jerusalem."

Surely a true Jew is still wating for their messiah?
Jesus did not fit the criteria.

Well I think that (and according to the argument I have just laid out), a Jew that has rejected Christ's authority has also rejected the authority of Moses, Abraham etc. and so is no longer a Jew and obviously cannot be termed a 'true Jew' perhaps 'false Jew' is a more accurate description.. Yes 'new Jews' could be used for all Christians, but my argument remains and this has little effect on the point I was making.

[kasalt]

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God" (Romans 2:28-29).

"And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham" (Matthew 3:9).

[phildee3]

Well I think that (and according to the argument I have just laid out), a Jew that has rejected Christ's authority has also rejected the authority of Moses, Abraham etc. and so is no longer a Jew and obviously cannot be termed a 'true Jew' perhaps 'false Jew' is a more accurate description.. Yes 'new Jews' could be used for all Christians, but my argument remains and this has little effect on the point I was making.



Ok. I get your point now.
But there are three different "Jews."
i) your "true Jews."
ii) my "new Jews,"
both of which are spiritual Jews, and also
iii) the Jewish race.

[thirdwave]

You say `The Bible created Christians, not Jesus'? What Bible? There were many Bibles that came long before the stripped down King James version.

Keep a few things in mind, Christianity had ALREADY become popular and powerful throughout the Roman empire and BEYOND by the time of the Council of Nicea in 325AD. ETHIOPIA converted to Christianity then and so had many Indians in Southern India. Yes there are 150 million Christians in South India today who date their conversion from approx 300AD. The accepted version of the Bible that we use today came long after that. And I would put it to you that the Bible has been STRIPPED of its original charismatic content and INTERPOLATED to suit the pagan priests i.e. the PTB.

The Anti-Christs like Maxwell and Acharya have you think that everyone had to be violently converted to Christianity. Did it ever occur to you that people might have been SICK of the requisite pagan BLOOD SACFRIFICES? Pagan temples were literally slaughterhouses. On high holy days, literally thousands of animals had their throats cut. Have you ever seen a bull have its throat cut? The blood literally shoots feet into the air, GALLONS OF BLOOD. Nice. Wonderful way to become more spiritual, to honor `the gods'. Then there were the human sacrifices...

How were the Christians identified by the Romans??? They REFUSED TO OFFER SACRIFICES.

ROME was one of the LAST Mediterranean countries to accept Christianity. The Christian movement went first to the GREEKS and all the Greek-speaking countries of Asia Minor and the Mediterranean including Syria, Egypt, etc. Emperor Constantine was not Roman. He was born in Serbia. His father, Constantius was Thracian and his mother Helena a `lowborn tavern maid' of Serbia.

Constantine despised Rome and moved the capitol to Constantinople - this was the SECOND ROME. Christianity was the rebellion and triumph of Greek culture over the brutality of Rome.

In Rome there are Tauroctomy inscriptions on Vatican Hill dating to 414 AD - the leading citizens were still doing TAUROCTOMIES then and holding Gladiatorial Games, 150 yrs AFTER the Council of Nicea banned BLOOD SACRIFICE. It is from the brutal INQUISITIONS of the PAGAN PRIESTHOOD who still rule the VATICAN (under the guise of Christianity) that the Anti-Christs get the ammunition for their hatred of Jesus.

I am not going to try and penetrate your ignorance.

All I will say is, my word you talk allot of Balls. How much lies, ill informed history and bullshit are you going to franticly cling too????

If you love your god so much then great, if its all the same to you he can kiss my arse as I don't need him... If I fuck up I will fuck up with or with out him If I get there I will get there with or with out him.. ;)

If I had to I would choose Pagans in a flash.

you are going to have a hard time hanging on to that needle, I can tell you.

[drakul]

Thirdwave can't refute my statements (if he tried he might actually learn some history); so he just falls back on the old BLANKET DENIAL tactic: everything you say is all bullshit - everything you say is all lies, lies...I tell you... etc.

Prove it.

[newdecades]

You say `The Bible created Christians, not Jesus'? What Bible? There were many Bibles that came long before the stripped down King James version.

Keep a few things in mind, Christianity had ALREADY become popular and powerful throughout the Roman empire and BEYOND by the time of the Council of Nicea in 325AD. ETHIOPIA converted to Christianity then and so had many Indians in Southern India. Yes there are 150 million Christians in South India today who date their conversion from approx 300AD. The accepted version of the Bible that we use today came long after that. And I would put it to you that the Bible has been STRIPPED of its original charismatic content and INTERPOLATED to suit the pagan priests i.e. the PTB.

The Anti-Christs like Maxwell and Acharya have you think that everyone had to be violently converted to Christianity. Did it ever occur to you that people might have been SICK of the requisite pagan BLOOD SACFRIFICES? Pagan temples were literally slaughterhouses. On high holy days, literally thousands of animals had their throats cut. Have you ever seen a bull have its throat cut? The blood literally shoots feet into the air, GALLONS OF BLOOD. Nice. Wonderful way to become more spiritual, to honor `the gods'. Then there were the human sacrifices...

How were the Christians identified by the Romans??? They REFUSED TO OFFER SACRIFICES.

ROME was one of the LAST Mediterranean countries to accept Christianity. The Christian movement went first to the GREEKS and all the Greek-speaking countries of Asia Minor and the Mediterranean including Syria, Egypt, etc. Emperor Constantine was not Roman. He was born in Serbia. His father, Constantius was Thracian and his mother Helena a `lowborn tavern maid' of Serbia.

Constantine despised Rome and moved the capitol to Constantinople - this was the SECOND ROME. Christianity was the rebellion and triumph of Greek culture over the brutality of Rome.

In Rome there are Tauroctomy inscriptions on Vatican Hill dating to 414 AD - the leading citizens were still doing TAUROCTOMIES then and holding Gladiatorial Games, 150 yrs AFTER the Council of Nicea banned BLOOD SACRIFICE. It is from the brutal INQUISITIONS of the PAGAN PRIESTHOOD who still rule the VATICAN (under the guise of Christianity) that the Anti-Christs get the ammunition for their hatred of Jesus.

all the bibles created christianity.
what form of christianity was already popular before the council of nicea? from what i've read there was a few different groups of christians that didn't even agree with each other on things so at the council of nicea they mixed the beliefs to please all the different sects.

yeah the pagans did sacrifices and stuff but the bible isn't so peaceful and loving as you seem to think it is. doesn't it say to stone or execute people for ridiculous things? like if a man finds out a woman he married is not a virgin she is to be executed? it seems like you are over looking some of the horrendous stuff the bible says.

[phildee3]

He did.



I wasn't talking about the criteria of the earlier prophets but of the Jewish authorities at the time.

[thirdwave]

Thirdwave can't refute my statements (if he tried he might actually learn some history); so he just falls back on the old BLANKET DENIAL tactic: everything you say is all bullshit - everything you say is all lies, lies...I tell you... etc.

Prove it.


Just because I cant be bothered to try and educate someone who would refuse anything that your god has not permitted, it does not mean I cant refute you... its more a case of not seeing the point... but feel free to think that if it makes your god feel more real.... im not going to have a battle of weblinks with you, where you post a bunch of links written by other people as ignorant as you... and i post a load of links where you will call them anti Christ links....


you only need to read the bible to see what I am talking about... But You dont want people to read it.. you want to give them a commentary... because if you dont then "they will not read it right".. when it is not being miss understood... the fact is its a stack of mixed up shite that could mean anything... and just because in-between it all he says.. "oh yeah love eachother and be nice" ... he is fucking God!

there are more people reading here wondering why I am even bothering than there are that understand where you are coming from I assure you...

Christianity... is dyeing.... if it does, where does that leave you?... evil? ... lost?.... or could you get by wiothout it... and if you will allwaysd have it then whats the fucking problem??

Just because YOU are un able to graps ethics without a God creating a pen for you, it does not mean we all do...

Its hilarious how Christians preach about the NWO... yet will use NWO lies that have ruled over man kind for years to up hold your Dogma.

[drakul]

all the bibles created christianity.
what form of christianity was already popular before the council of nicea? from what i've read there was a few different groups of christians that didn't even agree with each other on things so at the council of nicea they mixed the beliefs to please all the different sects.

yeah the pagans did sacrifices and stuff but the bible isn't so peaceful and loving as you seem to think it is. doesn't it say to stone or execute people for ridiculous things? like if a man finds out a woman he married is not a virgin she is to be executed? it seems like you are over looking some of the horrendous stuff the bible says.



That's exactly what I'm talking about = tacking on the OLD TESTAMENT to Christianity is the worst thing they could have done, because when critics/athiests/pagans attack `Christianity' its ALWAYS the OT/JUDAISM they are attack.

Like you say - Compared to the Old Testament the pagans weren't so bad...that's right because the OT god Jawheh was a PAGAN GOD who demanded blood sacrifice, murder, genocide, etc.

[drakul]

Just because I cant be bothered to try and educate someone who would refuse anything that your god has not permitted, it does not mean I cant refute you... its more a case of not seeing the point... but feel free to think that if it makes your god feel more real.... im not going to have a battle of weblinks with you, where you post a bunch of links written by other people as ignorant as you... and i post a load of links where you will call them anti Christ links....


you only need to read the bible to see what I am talking about... But You dont want people to read it.. you want to give them a commentary... because if you dont then "they will not read it right".. when it is not being miss understood... the fact is its a stack of mixed up shite that could mean anything... and just because in-between it all he says.. "oh yeah love eachother and be nice" ... he is fucking God!

there are more people reading here wondering why I am even bothering than there are that understand where you are coming from I assure you...

Christianity... is dyeing.... if it does, where does that leave you?... evil? ... lost?.... or could you get by wiothout it... and if you will allwaysd have it then whats the fucking problem??

Just because YOU are un able to graps ethics without a God creating a pen for you, it does not mean we all do...

Its hilarious how Christians preach about the NWO... yet will use NWO lies that have ruled over man kind for years to up hold your Dogma.

If you actually bothered to read my posts - you would realize my points re ancient history go way beyond the Bible. Instead of discussing the issues you go on a big rant. Go ahead if it gets your rocks off. I'm not impressed. (smiles shrugs shoulders)

BTW - Christianity is`dyeing'(?) Dyeing = changing the color of a cloth. :D

[thirdwave]

If you actually bothered to read my posts - you would realize my points re ancient history go way beyond the Bible. I know some of your points are way beyond the bible... but they also reek of ignorence and what Christian apologists teach... but very little fact.

In true ignorance you tarnish everything un Christian with the same brush.... if people have done negative things occult related... they are all evil pagans that were gladly burnt and killed.... Bad Christians on the other hand are just a thing where it has been corupted and is not RRrrrreal Christinaity....

when the truth is "Christinaity" did win! ... and here we are today!

Im not an anti Christ ... I could not give a shit about Christ enough to be anti it... I am pro information and free speech and thought.

If you want or anyone else wants to worship Christ it bothers me in no way what's so ever... if you want to try and brainwash me or my friends with its Dogmas... then I will offer more input.... simple as that.


Instead of discussing the issues you go on a big rant. Go ahead if it gets your rocks off. I'm not impressed. (smiles shrugs shoulders)

Dear me.. you have attacked my enthusiastic attitude on the debate... and you have called me as Anti-Christ.... and so on....

Just because I don't believe in the bible and believe it was put there for other reasons...

The truth is its you with the Belief here and the one defending it... I do not have one and this is what I am talking about...

You cant create a view of the bible that you like and aspect others to see it the same .... it was not written that way, and we are talking about a book that has been the Manuel for man kind for all the years the elite have ruled over man kind while also carrying out all kinds of evil rituals...

your messages show clearly that you are ignoring points being made because you are way to busy trying to convince people that Jesus is our saviour...


BTW - Christianity is`dyeing'(?) Dyeing = changing the color of a cloth. :D
Ahh well spotted.... ok then, correction.. "Christianity is dying" .. and that is the truth....

My only problem with that is what it has done is made anything "spiritual" come across as "religious" to people, and they get fed up with it.... religion has been so full of shit for so long that it has done its job with most people, either brainwashed them or it has put them off looking for anything...

of course not everyone..

[armoured_amazon]

Christianity is far from dying. Tares and wheat are being separated, that's all. Besides, even if there are only ten people left in the world in Christ at the end of days, God will be overjoyed with His children's faithfulness.

[dlb2007]

Amoured Amazon, you are correct, but unless a seed falls to the ground and dies it can not bare fruit, it is our destiny to suffer and die as witnesses to the gospel just as Christ did, "so as the father sent me, so I send you" and "i send you out as sheep among wolves" "if the persecuted me, they will persecute you"

[armoured_amazon]

Amoured Amazon, you are correct, but unless a seed falls to the ground and dies it can not bare fruit, it is our destiny to suffer and die as witnesses to the gospel just as Christ did, "so as the father sent me, so I send you" and "i send you out as sheep among wolves" "if the persecuted me, they will persecute you"

And we should rejoice in it because it is fulfilment of God's promise to us. I always liked the words in this part of the sermon by Canon Henry Scott-Holland: "There is absolutely unbroken continuity. What is this death but a negligible accident?...I am waiting for you for an interval somewhere very near..." :)

[thirdwave]

Christianity is far from dying. Tares and wheat are being separated, that's all. Besides, even if there are only ten people left in the world in Christ at the end of days, God will be overjoyed with His children's faithfulness.

that splendid for him and those 10 people...

[armoured_amazon]

that splendid for him and those 10 people...

Yes it is. :)

[ashanti_kingdom]

Christianity is far from dying. Tares and wheat are being separated, that's all. Besides, even if there are only ten people left in the world in Christ at the end of days, God will be overjoyed with His children's faithfulness.

Definitely I remember Lots family in the bible. Christianity is not about numbers. The bible says it crystal clear that the road to righteousness is narrow and a lonely one too.

I love ur courage and faith stand here ;);)

[armoured_amazon]

Definitely I remember Lots family in the bible. Christianity is not about numbers. The bible says it crystal clear that the road to righteousness is narrow and a lonely one too.

I love ur courage and faith stand here ;);)


Thank you :)

[thirdwave]

Yes it is. :)

spiffing ! :)

[drakul]

Good grief, Christianity is not dying. Far from it. There are over 2 BILLION Christians in the world. Nearly twice as many as the world's 2nd largest religion - Islam.

[thirdwave]

Good grief, Christianity is not dying. Far from it. There are over 2 BILLION Christians in the world. Nearly twice as many as the world's 2nd largest religion - Islam.

lol, yeah only because there is about 4 or 5 different types!.. not exactly unity!

and taking into account the worlds population is around 6.7 billion... and there are meant to be about 1.3 billion Muslimsm, and just under 1 billion Hindus... as well as all sorts of other religions.. Im not to convinced with those figures... go and do a survey and ask people if they are religious... and see what you get..

most of those figure's will include people who rate them selves as a Christian because they go to mass on Christmas morning.. although have probably never even read the bible..

like I say, most have completely lost faith in religion.. with the only down side being that sadly if you bring up anything spiritual to them and you begin to be viewed in the same light... and you often have to clarify that you are not trying to impose a belief system on them or a faith.... just open them up to forgotten realities and an understanding of science....

and in case you have not wondered religions have been introduced through time for as long as our records can show.... and Christianity is very much another one of them... and the people who brought upon these religion will with out a doubt want to bring in more, ones to suit the present culture and state of people...

[aziz09]

what a shock, another bible bashing thread!!

Where the hell is Satan!!? We need you buddy!

IMO if the only way to save us from the NWO is to trust in Jesus then I think we deserve to go down.

hahahahaha...we deserve to be NUKED in that case dude. Guys I HIGHLY recommend Ian X. Lungold, he, with the help of an OPEN minded scientist, explain the Mayan calendar. Its very interesting check it out, it will explain a lot of things, including religion and what is to come. Sumer, Babylon, Maya...these civilizations knew way more than us about consciousness and spirituality. WE ARE STILL WAITING FOR JESUS!!! I'm waiting for that huge comet to smack the earth...you do the math.

http://video.google.ca/videosearch?hl=en&q=Ian%20Xel&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#

[thirdwave]

Yes I have watched Ian's talks, shame he passed away, he was the best at explaining what the Mayan calender is...

[newdecades]

Amoured Amazon, you are correct, but unless a seed falls to the ground and dies it can not bare fruit, it is our destiny to suffer and die as witnesses to the gospel just as Christ did, "so as the father sent me, so I send you" and "i send you out as sheep among wolves" "if the persecuted me, they will persecute you"

haha, dude, that's not going to happen. they aren't going to start killing christians!

[newdecades]

That's exactly what I'm talking about = tacking on the OLD TESTAMENT to Christianity is the worst thing they could have done, because when critics/athiests/pagans attack `Christianity' its ALWAYS the OT/JUDAISM they are attack.

Like you say - Compared to the Old Testament the pagans weren't so bad...that's right because the OT god Jawheh was a PAGAN GOD who demanded blood sacrifice, murder, genocide, etc.

isn't some of that stuff in the NT too though? like stoning people for dumb reasons etc.?

[thirdwave]

isn't some of that stuff in the NT too though? like stoning people for dumb reasons etc.?

yes.

[element]

Good grief, Christianity is not dying. Far from it. There are over 2 BILLION Christians in the world. Nearly twice as many as the world's 2nd largest religion - Islam.

Only because it was forced on people during imperialism times.

[phildee3]

Only because it was forced on people during imperialism times.



...and thus most people are Christian in name only.

To be a Christian requires a change of heart, -
a voluntary devotion.

It's difficult to say if there are fewer real Christians today than there used to be,
people tend not to formally register their devotional preferences but their status.

[dlb2007]

haha, dude, that's not going to happen. they aren't going to start killing christians!

why not its happened throughout Catholic history. Romans killed us, the british killed us, the germans killed us, the russians killed us, the chineese killed/are killing us. We have been persecuted around the world, you cant mock and riddicule a black man for his skin colour without being labled a racisit, you cant mock and riddicule a homosexual for his sexual preference wthout being labled a homophobic, but religious people especially conservitive christians, inparticular Catholics, well its fine to express your hatred, you can mock and riddicule all you like, no one will ever call you an anti catholic biggot, except maybe a catholic and what do you care what them scumbags think?

[thirdwave]

why not its happened throughout Catholic history. Romans killed us, the british killed us, the germans killed us, the russians killed us, the chineese killed/are killing us. We have been persecuted around the world, you cant mock and riddicule a black man for his skin colour without being labled a racisit, you cant mock and riddicule a homosexual for his sexual preference wthout being labled a homophobic, but religious people especially conservitive christians, inparticular Catholics, well its fine to express your hatred, you can mock and riddicule all you like, no one will ever call you an anti catholic biggot, except maybe a catholic and what do you care what them scumbags think?

the people who killed other faiths are the people who wanted people to believe Jesus Christ was the messiah.... yes there was civil war with Christians killing each other... as well as Christians killing other faiths and destroying old temples and sacred sights making it even harder for us today to really learn about them and where they came from and what they believed... people like Tsarion... Maxwell and even Icke would have been killed, no doubt.

The Romans gave you Christianity... if it was not for them you would have never heard of Jesus Christ.

[drakul]

isn't some of that stuff in the NT too though? like stoning people for dumb reasons etc.?


Jesus spoke AGAINST stoning. Let he who hath not sinned cast the first stone.

That's the point of the NT vs OT - Jesus spoke out against Jewish law which demanded stoning of women for adultery.

[phildee3]

Jesus spoke AGAINST stoning. Let he who hath not sinned cast the first stone.

That's the point of the NT vs OT - Jesus spoke out against Jewish law which demanded stoning of women for adultery.



Quite!
Where does it say otherwise, thirdwave?
Quote please.

[dlb2007]

the people who killed other faiths are the people who wanted people to believe Jesus Christ was the messiah.... yes there was civil war with Christians killing each other... as well as Christians killing other faiths and destroying old temples and sacred sights making it even harder for us today to really learn about them and where they came from and what they believed... people like Tsarion... Maxwell and even Icke would have been killed, no doubt.

The Romans gave you Christianity... if it was not for them you would have never heard of Jesus Christ.

Ok, 1st the romans did not give us Christianity - Jesus did

The Church used the Roman Empire to spread Catholicism, Just as the british used protestanism to spread their empire...The New World Order

Rome Persecuted Christians, put us to death in the hundreds in the coloseum executed St paul and our first pope.

The British monarcy - not the protestant people killed us, they ordered the disolution of the monastrys, mass was out lawed punishable by death.

Germany with the same royal family as britian under adolf hitler funded by britian and supported by the royal family killed over 600,000 catholics.

Russia under communism after the british supported bolshevik reveloution wiped out the royal family of russia and stalin killed over 40,000,000 catholics.

The Chinese are persecuting Catholics (under ground Catholic Church) loyal to the pope today.

But no killing Catholics will never happen:rolleyes:

[phildee3]

The Church used the Roman Empire to spread Catholicism,



I don't think so.
It was the Romans who used Christianity to enslave the people by controlling and restricting access to it's message (much of which it distorted in the process).
It got through in spite of the Roman empire, not because of it.

[dlb2007]

Yes, but because it over came eventually, catholicism was spread throughout the empire. Eventually the empire, virtually all the known world was in the hands of the pope.

Certain monarchiess instigated the protestant reformation in order to destroy the power of the Catholic Church and manipulate the huge Christian populations over a period of time in order to impliment their "new secular order" - and with it will come the destruction of Catholic Church and true post christian world will emerge.

[phildee3]

Yes, but because it over came eventually, catholicism was spread throughout the empire.

Eventually the empire, virtually all the known world was in the hands of the pope.



Yes, but the pope is not catholic.
He is a sectarian Catholic (with a capital C).

The Romans miappropriated the word.

They do not represent the humble Christ, but the arrogant state.



Certain monarchiess instigated the protestant reformation in order to destroy the power of the Catholic Church and manipulate the huge Christian populations over a period of time in order to impliment their "new secular order" - and with it will come the destruction of Catholic Church and true post christian world will emerge.



Both the Roman Catholics and the Protestant reformers are anti-Christian,
they both represent the State,

but Christ comes through both in the long run because they couldn't eliminate the Eucharist.

Now that the evangelical fundies have found a way to do that, the NWO has a clear way forward to achiveing total, Satanic global control.

[phildee3]

I have just re-read your original post, dlb.

I agree, but you have overlooked something - Constantine.

He was a ruthless, bloody killer who destroyed the true catholic church and creted the fake "Catholic Church."

His was the first NWO agenda to misuse Christianity.

[dlb2007]

in what way can they eliminated the eucharist. This is not good it is fortold that the eucharist/daily sacrafice would be destroyed.

Dan 8

"His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation

Mat 24

"this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand-"


As for constantine and the corruption of the Catholic Church - trust in Jesus!

"Simon, I say unto you that you are rock and upon this rock i will build my church and THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT"

[thirdwave]

Ok, 1st the romans did not give us Christianity - [QUOTE]Jesus did

ohh right, lol

The Church used the Roman Empire to spread Catholicism, Just as the british used protestanism to spread their empire...The New World Order

Rome Persecuted Christians, put us to death in the hundreds in the coloseum executed St paul and our first pope.

The British monarcy - not the protestant people killed us, they ordered the disolution of the monastrys, mass was out lawed punishable by death.

Germany with the same royal family as britian under adolf hitler funded by britian and supported by the royal family killed over 600,000 catholics.

Russia under communism after the british supported bolshevik reveloution wiped out the royal family of russia and stalin killed over 40,000,000 catholics.

The Chinese are persecuting Catholics (under ground Catholic Church) loyal to the pope today.

But no killing Catholics will never happen:rolleyes:

Tell me, what bible do you read?

[dlb2007]

"Tell me, what bible do you read?"

The New Jeruselem bible

[phildee3]

in what way can they eliminated the eucharist. This is not good it is fortold that the eucharist/daily sacrafice would be destroyed.

Dan 8

"His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation



The two horns of the ram are the Orthodox and the Roman Catholics.

The he-goat is the evangel-fundies.



As for constantine and the corruption of the Catholic Church - trust in Jesus!

"Simon, I say unto you that you are rock and upon this rock i will build my church and THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT"



He is speaking here of the church (the collective body of the faithful), not the (organised) Church-es.

Yes, we shall prevail because death shall have no dominion over us!

(The Vatican is not built upon the rock of faith but on physical power and material might. According to my interpretation of Daniel, it shall fall at the hands of the fundies).

[dlb2007]

Jesus himself established an organised Church - He Choose 12 apostles from all his followers, he choose these men to take the message to all people, again later at the feeding of the five thousand, Jesus gives the food to the apostles for them to "feed" the people. Jesus specifically singles Peter one of the apostles out after his ressurection, peter denied jesus three times but jesus said before this happened "simon when you have turned back strenghen your brothers" after his ressurection jesus asks peter 3 times do you love me, YEs, Yes, Yes replies peter each time Jesus tells him, tend my sheep, feed my lambs, feed my sheep...3 times peter denied, 3 times peter said yes, three times jesus said feed my people.... 1. the father 2. the son, 3. the holy spirit.

At the inaugeration of simon/peter as the first leader of the apostolic church.

Jesus is not speaking to the whole church the body of believers, but he is speaking to the men he has appointed... the apostles

He gathered his apostles not his followers around him and asked them....who do people say that i am? then he asked them who do you say that i am?

Peter replies "you are the messiah, the son of the most high"

You have to remember here another thing jesus said

"I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does."

"blessed are you simon son of jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my father in heaven and i also reveal unto you, that you are rock and upon this rock i will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

Jesus is a king and kings have governments and the office of prime minister. Jesus is the king of the davidic kingdom

"He (jesus) will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David"

Isaiah 22 prophecy of jesus inaugeration of peter and ousting of the pharasis

"Go, say to this steward, to Shebna, who is in charge of the palace"

" you disgrace to your master's house! I will depose you from your office, and you will be ousted from your position"

""In that day I will summon my servant, Eliakim son of Hilkiah."

Remember - blessed are you "SIMON SON OF JONAH"


Issiah 22

"I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him."


"He will be a father(The word pope comes from the greek papas meaning FATHER) to those who live in Jerusalem and to the house of Judah."

"I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open."

"I will drive him like a peg into a firm place; he will be a seat of honor for the house of his father. All the glory of his family will hang on him."


Mat 16:19 Jesus says to peter

"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven"

There is no escaping from it, Jesus is giving an apostle in this case Simon/peter the authority.

Mat 7

"Not everyone who (professes to be a christian) says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"


"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man (jesus) who built his house on the rock(peter).

Simon, you are rock and upon this rock i will build my church, my house"

The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock (peter). 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."

[thirdwave]

"Tell me, what bible do you read?"

The New Jeruselem bible

Hu??? that's %100 catholic...

and that's one of the most modern translations of the bible??.. where you think it came from?

[dlb2007]

I have other bibles too

yeah of course its 100% Catholic, I am a Catholic

Whats the point in using an incomplete bible that has 7 books missing

Where do you think the bible itself came from.... out the sky?

The old testiment (Catholic) septuigent was compiled by the fathers of the twelve tribes of isreal in alexander in Greece. The Septuigent is the old testiment jesus and the apostles refer to in the new testiment. There were no opposition to the septuigent for 1500 years of Christianity until the protestant reformers decided to throw out seven of the books. The New Testiment was compiled over the years by the Catholic Church, both protestant and catholics have the same new testiment even though martin luther wanted to remove James and Revelation from the bible also.

[thirdwave]

I have other bibles too

yeah of course its 100% Catholic, I am a Catholic

Whats the point in using an incomplete bible that has 7 books missing

Where do you think the bible itself came from.... out the sky?

The old testiment (Catholic) septuigent was compiled by the fathers of the twelve tribes of isreal in alexander in Greece. The Septuigent is the old testiment jesus and the apostles refer to in the new testiment. There were no opposition to the septuigent for 1500 years of Christianity until the protestant reformers decided to throw out seven of the books. The New Testiment was compiled over the years by the Catholic Church, both protestant and catholics have the same new testiment even though martin luther wanted to remove James and Revelation from the bible also.

its shocking that you cling to it for truth.... such a clearly corrupt and fucked with text ...since day one.

[phildee3]

yeah of course its 100% Catholic, I am a Catholic

Whats the point in using an incomplete bible that has 7 books missing



The Jerusalem Bible has alot more than that missing.

The Gospel of Mary Magdalene, for starters!

[dlb2007]

The Gospel of thomas, the gospel of peter, the apocolypse of our lady, the didache and many others that are not found in the bible but they were not intended to be in the bible, no protestant bible has them in either. The Catholic church dosnt just use scripture but also sacred tradition too, where you can find texts such as the dideche etc in sacred tradition.

The bible originaly had the shepherd of hermes in the NT canon and i think the acts of peter and paul but it was never offically declared.

But it makes no odds anyway the offical canon is decreed by the seat of peter, protected from err in matters of faith and morals, so we can take that to the bank!

[phildee3]

The Gospel of thomas, the gospel of peter, the apocolypse of our lady, the didache and many others that are not found in the bible but they were not intended to be in the bible,



Neither were any of the books that are in it!



But it makes no odds anyway the offical canon is decreed by the seat of peter, protected from err in matters of faith and morals, so we can take that to the bank!



But the bank is bankrupt!

[newdecades]

why not its happened throughout Catholic history. Romans killed us, the british killed us, the germans killed us, the russians killed us, the chineese killed/are killing us. We have been persecuted around the world, you cant mock and riddicule a black man for his skin colour without being labled a racisit, you cant mock and riddicule a homosexual for his sexual preference wthout being labled a homophobic, but religious people especially conservitive christians, inparticular Catholics, well its fine to express your hatred, you can mock and riddicule all you like, no one will ever call you an anti catholic biggot, except maybe a catholic and what do you care what them scumbags think?

every religion has been persecuted at one time or another, not just christians. what i mean is that it wont become a worldwide situation were everyone is attacking the chrisitians. the thing with a lot of christians though is that they kind of play the victim because their bible tells them that one day they will be killed for being christian.
from my experiences and from what i've seen you can't mock someone for their religious views just like you can't mock someone for their race or sexuality.

[thirdwave]

every religion has been persecuted at one time or another, not just christians. what i mean is that it wont become a worldwide situation were everyone is attacking the chrisitians. the thing with a lot of christians though is that they kind of play the victim because their bible tells them that one day they will be killed for being christian.
from my experiences and from what i've seen you can't mock someone for their religious views just like you can't mock someone for their race or sexuality.

the people who really suffer are the the "none believers" .... religions have always killed eachother claiming to be the victims... falling for all the bullshit that they are meant to fall for....

but what has truly happened within all this is other beliefs and other knowedge has either been kept secret or has been killed...

Like I say, years ago people like Tsarion, Maxwell, Acharya S and Icke would have been killed.... I my self would have been burned at the stake....

most religious people are not mature enough to see that every religion has been through the same thing... been guilty of the same things and have been victims at some stage ...as they all play a role in what religion has been used for.... and have all come from old faiths that were built on ignorance... in times where we were very un-evolved.

[dlb2007]

"every religion has been persecuted at one time or another, not just christians. what i mean is that it wont become a worldwide situation were everyone is attacking the chrisitians. the thing with a lot of christians though is that they kind of play the victim because their bible tells them that one day they will be killed for being christian.
from my experiences and from what i've seen you can't mock someone for their religious views just like you can't mock someone for their race or sexuality."

I cant believe the narrow mindedness of this.

Yes, every religion has been persecuted at one time or another. Just proves one thing, someone or some organisation somewhere dosnt like religion.

As For it becoming a world wide thing. Do you think if hitler had won the war and setup the 3rd Reich the hollocaust would not have become a world wide thing?

Secular Athiests hate all religion, to them there should be no place for it in modern day society. Do you think all Christians are just going to like say ok, we give up our religion...and acept the new athiest religion of "humanism" do you think all the muslims will, how about the Jews.

If there is a one world Government opposed to Christians because they are opposed to them and a threat to them by calling them the Anti Christ, then yeah Christians will be killed, as will anyone who opposes them.


When was the last time you saw a white comedian taking the mick out of Blacks for their skin colour on TV, how often do you see non christian comedians taking the mick out of Christians/Christ/Religion.

Would southpark get away with racist jibs as much as they get away with religious jibes.

[thirdwave]

I cant believe the narrow mindedness of this.

This is quite simple... it is a case of your extremely narrow reality tunnel and your shocking lack of awareness to actually see religion for what it as is the same kind lack of awareness which leads you to view us as narrow minded...

and we can say this is a fact, as how can one have a narrow mind by simply not conforming to a belief system? .... that's like saying, "the bucket has a hole in it" ... "why"? .."because there is no water in it" ... when there is clearly no hole in the bucket its just it has not been filled up.

you are the one with the belief... the faith... what you would see as knowledge... there for you are the one who's mind set can be monitored.

Religion has NOTHING to do with nature what's to ever.


Yes, every religion has been persecuted at one time or another. Just proves one thing, someone or some organisation somewhere dosnt like religion.

No it does not, lol. why on earth do you come to that conclusion?? ... have you not noticed that the PTB work within a divide and conquer game plan? .... have you not noticed how they have benefited from religious conflict? ... there is every reason to believe they LOVE religion and very little to have us believe they don't like it ..or fear it.... just because they try to influence its progression and the introduction of newer Dogmas it does not mean they don't like them..

Religion has been the most dominant thing on the planet... it has created civilisations and it has ALWAYS been supported by every power in control...

If the PTB really wanted away with religion it would have been done hundreds of years ago....

As For it becoming a world wide thing. Do you think if hitler had won the war and setup the 3rd Reich the hollocaust would not have become a world wide thing?

Of course it would have... but that has nothing to do with being against religion.... it has to do with stepping things up and creating a NWO ... you understand what the word "NEW" means? .... and "WORLD ORDER"?

Just because you need to believe in a god that rules over us all in order to be a decent person it does not mean we all do.... it is that lack of maturity which has lead to such a craving for religion and have given the PTB all the power then need to keep man kind in ignorance.. and the worst part about it is to some degree they can smugly point out how right they are in man kind are simply not grown up enough...

if you never heard of Jesus Christ and did not have the bible, are you saying you would be some kind of cannibal?

Secular Athiests hate all religion,

the only thing I get from Atheists are they get wound up by the ignorance within religion... I mean I find Atheists to be just as ignorant half the time.... but I don't think they hate religion?... its more a case of religious people frustrate them with there imposing views on others.

If there is a one world Government opposed to Christians because they are opposed to them and a threat to them by calling them the Anti Christ, then yeah Christians will be killed, as will anyone who opposes them.
but if you are a true christian and believe in Jesus Christ, what have you got to fear right?

When was the last time you saw a white comedian taking the mick out of Blacks for their skin colour on TV, how often do you see non christian comedians taking the mick out of Christians/Christ/Religion.

I suppose the reason cant be that most people find religious people stupid and its easy to laugh at it all?

This is what gets me.... why Religious people are so busy defending THEIR FAITH .... they think we should all completely ignore all the outrageous and stupid things that have gone on in the name of religion....

Your god is all so mighty and powerful yet he needs you to make people believe in him?..

Would southpark get away with racist jibs as much as they get away with religious jibes.

No, racism is looking down on someone for what they are by race... this is nothing to do with their choice of being and there for is a form of degrading another human being... Religion is a choice of being and there for is different... you are insulting their choice not them as a human being...

and I also agree people need to lighten up with race jokes and so on... people take it all way to serious, now last thing we need is a bunch banging on about religious speech, its only in recent years people are given more right to do so, and long may it continue, its been under religions foot for way to long this planet!.... and there are still many channels that will not tolerate people being critical of certain religions.... reality shows have all religious convo's edited out.


I %100 deny the hole spirit and it feels GREAT!.

[dlb2007]

This is quite simple... it is a case of your extremely narrow reality tunnel and your shocking lack of awareness to actually see religion for what it as is the same kind lack of awareness which leads you to view us as narrow minded...

Oh right, blame it on the christian.

and we can say this is a fact, as how can one have a narrow mind by simply not conforming to a belief system? ....

But you do believe, it is your beliefs that I am calling "narrow minded" not your lack of belief in christianity.


No it does not, lol. why on earth do you come to that conclusion?? ... have you not noticed that the PTB work within a divide and conquer game plan? .... have you not noticed how they have benefited from religious conflict?

Have you never noticed, its never religious conflict, its always trade and religion is used as the scapegoat.


Religion has been the most dominant thing on the planet... it has created civilisations and it has ALWAYS been supported by every power in control.

Not "Always" the 20th centuary the most bloodiest in history was the result of athiests in power, such as stalin and hitler.


but that has nothing to do with being against religion.... it has to do with stepping things up and creating a NWO ... you understand what the word "NEW" means? .... and "WORLD ORDER"?

Yeah new means not old and world order means global control. Just cause the NWO is about to be implimented... infact it already has been, dosnt mean it was not what hitler tried to bring about.

the last world order or old world order was the catholic church, they have been building the new world order since the 1500's when they instigated the reformation. These people are not Christians but "wolves in sheeps clothing".

Just because you need to believe in a god that rules over us all in order to be a decent person

As if belief in God could do that.

it does not mean we all do.... it is that lack of maturity which has lead to such a craving for religion and have given the PTB all the power then need to keep man kind in ignorance..

No its your ignorant understanding of religion that makes you believe the ptb have used religion in this way.

If Religion is the opium of the masses as karl marx suggested then why did communism out law Christianity and kill 40 million catholics?

and the worst part about it is to some degree they can smugly point out how right they are in man kind are simply not grown up enough...

but if you are a true christian and believe in Jesus Christ, what have you got to fear right?

I dont fear, but its important to be aware.



I suppose the reason cant be that most people find religious people stupid and its easy to laugh at it all?

Most people find religious people stupid???? unless you havent realised most people are religious.

Your god is all so mighty and powerful yet he needs you to make people believe in him?.

No, not at all



and I also agree people need to lighten up with race jokes and so on... people take it all way to serious, now last thing we need is a bunch banging on about religious speech, its only in recent years people are given more right to do so, and long may it continue, its been under religions foot for way to long this planet!.... and there are still many channels that will not tolerate people being critical of certain religions.... reality shows have all religious convo's edited out.

Because they dont want to spread a religious message...duh!

your belief that the it is Impossible or even unlikely that xtians will be persecuted by a nwo is narrow minded

[newdecades]

I cant believe the narrow mindedness of this.

Yes, every religion has been persecuted at one time or another. Just proves one thing, someone or some organisation somewhere dosnt like religion.

As For it becoming a world wide thing. Do you think if hitler had won the war and setup the 3rd Reich the hollocaust would not have become a world wide thing?

Secular Athiests hate all religion, to them there should be no place for it in modern day society. Do you think all Christians are just going to like say ok, we give up our religion...and acept the new athiest religion of "humanism" do you think all the muslims will, how about the Jews.

If there is a one world Government opposed to Christians because they are opposed to them and a threat to them by calling them the Anti Christ, then yeah Christians will be killed, as will anyone who opposes them.


When was the last time you saw a white comedian taking the mick out of Blacks for their skin colour on TV, how often do you see non christian comedians taking the mick out of Christians/Christ/Religion.

Would southpark get away with racist jibs as much as they get away with religious jibes.

religions have been persecuted by other religions, non-religious people have been persecuted by religious people. it's not non-religious people always persecuting religious people. actually it seems to be mostly religious people persecuting other people.

that's the thing, too many people are against the persecution of any religious group. that's why it wont become a worldwide thing. most people don't care if you're religious as long as you don't force it on others. if someone tried to start killing christians like hitler did to the jews it would be stopped just like hitler was.

no, secular athiests do not hate all religions. i'm sure some do but most of them really don't care if you practice your religion as long as you don't force it on others or fight with each other. you prove my point i made in my last post, you seem to think anyone who isn't christian hates christians when that isn't true, it's just that your bible warns you about this so you are paranoid.

exactly, anyone who opposes the one world government will be killed, not just christians.

i see a lot of comedians making fun of different races, sexualities, and religions. even southpark. they're comedians, don't take it so seriously.

[newdecades]

the people who really suffer are the the "none believers" .... religions have always killed eachother claiming to be the victims... falling for all the bullshit that they are meant to fall for....

but what has truly happened within all this is other beliefs and other knowedge has either been kept secret or has been killed...

Like I say, years ago people like Tsarion, Maxwell, Acharya S and Icke would have been killed.... I my self would have been burned at the stake....

most religious people are not mature enough to see that every religion has been through the same thing... been guilty of the same things and have been victims at some stage ...as they all play a role in what religion has been used for.... and have all come from old faiths that were built on ignorance... in times where we were very un-evolved.

exactly

[thirdwave]

Oh right, blame it on the christian.

lol, and here we see another example .. where I have very clearly been referring to RELIGION... and you come out with an absurd comment like that.


But you do believe, it is your beliefs that I am calling "narrow minded" not your lack of belief in christianity.

Really??, want what do I believe?


Have you never noticed, its never religious conflict, its always trade and religion is used as the scapegoat.
Rubbish... political differences will allways be a case no matter what starts it... its what creates the need for two political differences... admittedly in recent Wars it has been less... simply because less people give a shit about religion as time has gone on...


Not "Always" the 20th centuary the most bloodiest in history was the result of athiests in power, such as stalin and hitler.
first of all nither where proven to be Atheists... that's just your own guess... Hitler was rased a Roman Catholic... and was against the way Christianity was ... Hated Jews as we all knew and felt his interpretation of Christianity was best.... he was more a Christian than an Atheist.

this is what Im talking about because he is not a "real" Christian... or not a "real" person of God.. you call him an Atheist... he was a crazy man who did not care for other humans but this does not make him an Atheist... and Stalin was not totally an Atheist either...

But above all you show more lack of awareness when you bring up these people who are very clear apart of a society that are not atheists but are involved in deep occult groups... these are the very people that used religion to implement there manipulation... so of course they would not be fooled by the same tricks that fooled the masses.... or at the very least they simply worked for these people.. neither was truly in power, you do understand that right?


the last world order or old world order was the catholic church, they have been building the new world order since the 1500's when they instigated the reformation. These people are not Christians but "wolves in sheeps clothing".
and to think if you never read the bible, you would have never known! :eek:

they are like all religions and are just developments from the seeds that hads been planted... there is no "real Christians" ... we are human beings... all the same, all responsible for good and evil... and are all here to grow up.... Religion is lazy...



No its your ignorant understanding of religion that makes you believe the ptb have used religion in this way.
Wrong.. its simple research and common sense... and being able to think for your self... trust your self, and not be effected buy how the PTP interact or attack religion anyway... thus having a crisp and clear perspective.. remaining open and inspired by anything each day projects... understanding that the concept of God is way to vast for a human mind to fully understand in such simplistic terms and outlooks and not relying on a child like book full of hidden occult messages to define it.


If Religion is the opium of the masses as karl marx suggested then why did communism out law Christianity and kill 40 million catholics?
because they were bastard murderer's, also there are different types of communism ... again you generalise to suit your point...

Im confused as how you feel because one group have killed many religious people that you think they did not like religion... no, they did not like the masses.. so killed them... how did they kill them?.... this is the relevent question, there will always be one side content at the safety of their own dogma... why have you not pointed out the Jew treatment in WW2... hyped or not..it was very real... it does not mean the PTB wanted to do away with Jewish people... no because they used the Jew and Muslim division to create a hold on the middle east.

You fail to see the bigger picture... another symptom.

I will also ask you this... seeing as you seem to think that Christians have been victims and terribly treated ... then does this kind of point out that it is maybe not so effective?

or does Jesus just want his believers to suffer as much as he did before he gives them that ticket to heaven?




Most people find religious people stupid???? unless you havent realised most people are religious.
your kidding right?... when did that happen?

No, not at all
So your religion has not been oppressed and attacked and corrupted?

Because they dont want to spread a religious message...duh!
No, they are asked to Edit out anything that is "offensive" to religious people...

and what bloody Religious message? lol

come on then how is that message going to save people?.. why do they need some fucking Dogma to save them?.. why??

because we are all evil beings that must submit to Jesus?


your belief that the it is Impossible or even unlikely that xtians will be persecuted by a nwo is narrow minded

Wrong.... I do think that there is much being pushed to dislodge many religions... NOT just Christianity :rolleyes:, (In fact I would say if anything Christianity is the least attacked at the moment...) but it is not because they want to persecute them...

If you had researched the NWO you would know that part of the agenda is to create a 1 world religion.... so obviously having 4 major religions that all contradict each other... is not the same as one world religion is it?

there for what do you suppose they will do if they no longer want to work that way?? .. Do you think the PTB have only ever worked in America and some of Europe?.... no they have always been all over the world... they have just not created a place that they can rule openly in the world.. we are seeing the same in all institutions... Banks, with currency being attacked... governments... with governments being dismantled.... military and police the same... and yes..that's right take a seat and brace your self... also RELIGION!.

you think the British Empire has been killed by another force?????... NO its been killed by the people who created the British Empire....

I see what is going on, I just see the bigger picture.. how the use of these religious have worked for them in the past... but will no longer work in the future.... But they would very much like to cook something else up...

in many ways I guess Christians clinging on to their teddy bare will if anything be a bit of a nuisance to the PTB .... but its not exactly going to pull the planet out of the predicament its in.....

Try to trust your self.... I ask again if it was not for you coming across the bible would you be a savage plaguing the earth?

[squarehead]

Hey everyone!!

I'm VERY new here. I have been reading and also watching David's video's for sometime now tho.
I am a Christian and I truly believe this world is in DEEP trouble right now. We are ALL being fed complete crap thru media and it all adds up to a one world government where many will be gone when it's accomplished.
Me, I'll probably be one of the first to be in one of the concentration camps around North America! Boom! Gone!

All I want to say is one thing... "They" want us divided and fighting about minor stupid little things.

FOR ONCE, LET'S DROP OUR DIFFERENCES AND FIGHT WHAT WE ALL AGREE IS THE MAJOR PROBLEM TOGETHER - IT'S THE ONLY WAY WE WILL WIN!

God bless ya!

Love you all!

Keith

[armoured_amazon]

Hey everyone!!

I'm VERY new here. I have been reading and also watching David's video's for sometime now tho.
I am a Christian and I truly believe this world is in DEEP trouble right now. We are ALL being fed complete crap thru media and it all adds up to a one world government where many will be gone when it's accomplished.
Me, I'll probably be one of the first to be in one of the concentration camps around North America! Boom! Gone!

All I want to say is one thing... "They" want us divided and fighting about minor stupid little things.

FOR ONCE, LET'S DROP OUR DIFFERENCES AND FIGHT WHAT WE ALL AGREE IS THE MAJOR PROBLEM TOGETHER - IT'S THE ONLY WAY WE WILL WIN!

God bless ya!

Love you all!

Keith

Hear, hear. Welcome to the forum. :)

[squarehead]

Hear, hear. Welcome to the forum. :)

Thanx, armoured_amazon !!!

Great to be here!!

It is VERY overwhelming to me in that everything that seems to happen (911-London bus bombings-WW1-WWII etc etc) is all part of "the movie" although not part of the truth in our world today... Try telling friends and family any of this stuff and they look at you like you are from outer space! So VERY frustrating

Take care,

Keith

[phildee3]

LET'S DROP OUR DIFFERENCES AND FIGHT WHAT WE ALL AGREE IS THE MAJOR PROBLEM TOGETHER - IT'S THE ONLY WAY WE WILL WIN!



and how do you suggest we do that?

What do you see as being "the major problem"?

[squarehead]

and how do you suggest we do that?

What do you see as being "the major problem"?


One easy answer...
The people in charge are corrupt.

Other answer...

Bush, Cheney, Papa Bush, Media, Bilderberg, Royal Family, Masons, etc etc
are in control and we (Jews, Christians, Muslims, Catholics, Africans, Jamaicans, Europeans, North Americans etc etc etc) should be looking at this instead of our own differences.
We are on this website because we ALL have a common concern, no?

Keith

[armoured_amazon]

Thanx, armoured_amazon !!!

Great to be here!!

It is VERY overwhelming to me in that everything that seems to happen (911-London bus bombings-WW1-WWII etc etc) is all part of "the movie" although not part of the truth in our world today... Try telling friends and family any of this stuff and they look at you like you are from outer space! So VERY frustrating

Take care,

Keith

It is. But also exciting too, because it means the end is near. Which means the new earth is coming. :)

[squarehead]

It is. But also exciting too, because it means the end is near. Which means the new earth is coming. :)

Yes... so True!!

My wife always says "what's it matter? - the sooner the better" - hehehe
I guess I should be more concerned that people are "ready" for the end - moreso than how they are going to end it!!

;-)

[armoured_amazon]

Yes... so True!!

My wife always says "what's it matter? - the sooner the better" - hehehe
I guess I should be more concerned that people are "ready" for the end - moreso than how they are going to end it!!

;-)

Yeah, the concern for me is when the time comes, will I be able to say I have served God well or was there more I could do. :)

[squarehead]

Yeah, the concern for me is when the time comes, will I be able to say I have served God well or was there more I could do. :)

Yes... this is really all that matters, isn't it!
It's all quite simple.
Praise God!

Keith

[phildee3]

The people in charge are corrupt.



Well, I agree wholeheartedly with that!
I've known that for years,

but many of those who call themselves Christians (ie. the fundie-evangelist types) support the neo-con agenda,
as do the zionist Jews.
They are convinced that it is the way to solve the problem.

So, how do we go about getting rid of them when there are so many Jews, Christians, Muslims, Catholics, Africans, Jamaicans, Europeans and North Americans who think that they hold the solution by causing Armageddon?

[phildee3]

Yes... this is really all that matters, isn't it!
It's all quite simple.
Praise God!



Boy, that's a far cry from the activism you were proposing with your first post!

[newdecades]

Hey everyone!!

I'm VERY new here. I have been reading and also watching David's video's for sometime now tho.
I am a Christian and I truly believe this world is in DEEP trouble right now. We are ALL being fed complete crap thru media and it all adds up to a one world government where many will be gone when it's accomplished.
Me, I'll probably be one of the first to be in one of the concentration camps around North America! Boom! Gone!

All I want to say is one thing... "They" want us divided and fighting about minor stupid little things.

FOR ONCE, LET'S DROP OUR DIFFERENCES AND FIGHT WHAT WE ALL AGREE IS THE MAJOR PROBLEM TOGETHER - IT'S THE ONLY WAY WE WILL WIN!

God bless ya!

Love you all!

Keith

sounds good. unfortunately there's a lot of 'christians' that can't get past the fact that other people aren't christians and see anyone who isn't a christian as a supporter of the nwo.

yeah, it's so great. the new earth is coming. jesus is going to come and throw non-chrisitians into 'hell'. sounds wonderful! man, you guys have depressing beliefs.

[squarehead]

sounds good. unfortunately there's a lot of 'christians' that can't get past the fact that other people aren't christians and see anyone who isn't a christian as a supporter of the nwo.

yeah, it's so great. the new earth is coming. jesus is going to come and throw non-chrisitians into 'hell'. sounds wonderful! man, you guys have depressing beliefs.



I'm a Christian... LOTS of NON -Christians do NOT want the NWO !!!! Cool! Ok!! I'm great with them! We're on the SAME SIDE!

Ok... What can we do to spread the word that "WE AGREE ON" that the "whirled" leadership is full of crap? Let's be united on what WE DO AGREE ON!!
I don't give a rat's ass when it comes to this, whether we're Jews, Christians, Catholics, ,,,,,whatever!!!

We have very little time left.

Keith

[phildee3]

I'm a Christian... LOTS of NON -Christians do NOT want the NWO !!!! Cool! Ok!! I'm great with them! We're on the SAME SIDE!



And there are alot of Christians (at least they call themselves Christians) who do want the NWO.



Ok... What can we do to spread the word that "WE AGREE ON" that the "whirled" leadership is full of crap?

Let's be united on what WE DO AGREE ON!!



We are.

The bit that I'm wondering about is how you propose that we "fight" them, as you say, because when you "fight" (by "spreading the word," or by direct action, or whatever) you strengthen the opposition which disagrees.

[dlb2007]

"LOTS of NON -Christians do NOT want the NWO !!!!"


"I have other sheep that are not of this flock. I must bring them also."
- Jesus Christ

"there are alot of Christians (at least they call themselves Christians) who do want the NWO"

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves" - JC

"many false prophets will appear and deceive many people" - JC

For false Christs (Christians) and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect--if that were possible. -JC

"such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people." - St Paul
................................

self delusion is a big problem in our society, people are not able to see the bigger picture, they are wise in their own eyes, scoff at those who are warning them calling them idiots and fools....

"Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise" - St Paul

[squarehead]

....Ya

I guess the Bush family would profess to be Christians.

Sad.

[phildee3]

....Ya

I guess the Bush family would profess to be Christians.



No need to guess.
They do.

[armoured_amazon]

Well, I agree wholeheartedly with that!
I've known that for years,

but many of those who call themselves Christians (ie. the fundie-evangelist types) support the neo-con agenda,
as do the zionist Jews.
They are convinced that it is the way to solve the problem.

So, how do we go about getting rid of them when there are so many Jews, Christians, Muslims, Catholics, Africans, Jamaicans, Europeans and North Americans who think that they hold the solution by causing Armageddon?

You can't speak for people you don't know.

[phildee3]

You can't speak for people you don't know.



That's true.
They speak for themselves and this is what they say.

[zero]

I can't understand why any Christian who takes their faith seriously would affiliate themselves with mock sacrificial rituals to false gods, let alone participate in those rituals.

[armoured_amazon]

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves" - JC

I see a lot of this.

[phildee3]

I see a lot of this.



There's alot of it around.

[squarehead]

I can't understand why any Christian who takes their faith seriously would affiliate themselves with mock sacrificial rituals to false gods, let alone participate in those rituals.



I AGREE 100% !!!!

He'll have to answer for that someday!!!! I cannot judge G W Bush but I certainly wouldn't count on his faith for my future!!!



Keith

[zero]

I AGREE 100% !!!!

He'll have to answer for that someday!!!! I cannot judge G W Bush but I certainly wouldn't count on his faith for my future!!!



Keith

However, I am not a Christian. I was only pointing out the incongruity, considering that there are people involved who profess strong Christian faith.

I have Christian family and friends who take their beliefs rather seriously, and I can't see how anti-christian activities could be considered compatible at all unless those involved are hypocrites who take that religion for a joke.

[thirdwave]

"I have other sheep that are not of this flock. I must bring them also."
- Jesus Christ



"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves" - JC

"many false prophets will appear and deceive many people" - JC

For false Christs (Christians) and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect--if that were possible. -JC

"such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people." - St Paul
................................

self delusion is a big problem in our society, people are not able to see the bigger picture, they are wise in their own eyes, scoff at those who are warning them calling them idiots and fools....

"Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise" - St Paul

Its shocking how you can take the warnings of "false prophets" from texts written by people we don't know, about another person whom we don't even have tangible evidence existed.... now that is some kick arse faith right there.... to take those warnings over people we can see today and judge on face value.... you wana talk about mind control?

How about listening to what these "wolves" have got to say with an open mind?... I mean, Jesus is very patronising if you ask me, and talks to me as if I'm some kind of idiot that has not got a mind unless i use his. If so, then what's the big fuss about man kind?, we would clearly be idiots and not really worth the trouble... or are we some lab test by god?.... a bunch of invalids who cant think properly and he is hedging his bets on which ones are obedient and which ones end up being to "stupid" and don't conform...... I mean does he have some kind of inferiority complex?.. sounds like he has issues!

And also He does not really make much effort to state that obviously not all are wolves... kind of generalises really!

Also I trust you have read the bible through and through and are also very much aware that it very much has texts that contradict your first quote....


like

"Matthew
10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."

and


"Matthew
12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad."

this is the guy who also warned you about wolves in sheeps clothing... I guess what he really means is, anyone who does not think he is the son of God is not to be trusted...

[squarehead]

However, I am not a Christian. I was only pointing out the incongruity, considering that there are people involved who profess strong Christian faith.

I have Christian family and friends who take their beliefs rather seriously, and I can't see how anti-christian activities could be considered compatible at all unless those involved are hypocrites who take that religion for a joke.

Ohhhh I think we agree 100% here, Bro.
I have no freaking idea how Bush could ever call himself a Christian either...

It's so far out that it's stupid!! He's a very evil man. period.

So.... ya, I hear ya loud and clear!!

Keith

[bensonz]

The bible is a valid (more than a valid) document, at the very least it is a piece of the puzzle, to be referred to, examined and reasoned over in an objective fashion by any true seeker of the truth. Even if your view is that the bible is a negative tool used by the illuminati as an effective way of controlling the masses. At least its not throwing it out all togheter becuase of the old chestnut; "Religion Causes Wars" "Its God Fault" - People shoot people guns dont shoot people ( and I hate cliches) but the point is people start wars, religion is a good cover. Because if you dont find Weapons of mass descruction, who are you gonna call? Bush, well I talked to the Lord and he reckons we go in there kick their freaken asses tomorrow after breakfast are ya comin with ? God gets missquoted more than Robbie Williams and he hasent even opened his mouth.

Bush Yeah lets spends 100million a day blowing shit up and giving lucrative military contracts to our mates. We'll convince the people these guys are the axis of evil etc etc


The power and influence of the bible over mankind for centuries can not be ignored and for the last 100 years it has been the No1 best seller in the world,

1. The Bible
"No one really knows how many copies of the Bible have been printed, sold, or distributed. The Bible Society's attempt to calculate the number printed
between 1816 and 1975 produced the figure of 2,458,000,000. A more recent
survey, for the years up to 1992, put it closer to 6,000,000,000 (6 Billion)
in more than 2,000 languages and dialects. Whatever the precise figure, the Bible is by far the bestselling book of all time."no other work of literature or art rivals its success at the top of the Charts. 20 number 1 songs and 150 million albums sold is chump change compared to the units the bible shifts every year, year in year out world wide .

Now; if some bloke manages to get a whole lot of other blokes to go of and start a war and kill a whole load of other blokes and decides to cut their tounges out in the name of God, in the name of the bible, and in the name of religion, this proves the calvanist view point that man, at his core, is totally depraved. I can't hold God responsible for this, nor do I blame the bible. I hold man responsible.

I dont see the words Catholic or Protestant in the bible and many of these Catholic and Protestant men are far from spiritual. They belong to secret societies as well as being involved in and with armed paramiltary groups, these men are not worshippers and followers of God. The shoot blow kill and maim innocent people, for what? They have been indoctrinated to hate the other side from childbirth, by WHo? God? No.

I belive these sects have been devised and created by illumitai to divide and conguer and cause civil unrest and then they take over. I give Michael Tesarion credit for that knowledge.

I come from Belfast Northern Ireland and I know, as a direct result of the troubles, money flows, certain people get rich and the security forces prosper. My cousin made a lot of money from the troubles being in the forces. Im sure he never read the bible in his life. Fair play to him it was a dangerous job and he deserved every penny and more in my opionion, but he was not out there in streets of Northern Ireland fighting for God.

Oh Im sure there are members who valiantly feel they are defending their faith and they are, but I say the derisions and tensions bewteen faiths where deliberatly manipulated by French iluminati In the case of Northen Ireland.

http://operationawakening.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/irish-flag-200.jpg

Irish Flag; Green on the Left Catholic and Rebublican - Orange on the right Protestant and Lloyalist to the Crown -White Frrench Illunitai in the middle

Doesn't the bible predict some of what's going on right now in the world. Clearly described events to some, like the chip implants, which have been in developement for years and ready to roll out on masive scale?

The bible, written by 40 men over a period of 1600 years has been proven to fit into a prefect mathmatical formula. If the blokes where dead by the time the last bloke did his bit how did he keep within the formula? Divine/extrenal of this world assistance? Or maybe it suggests to prove that all other unexplained matmatical certainties are authored dare I say by the author of all our lifes? I dont know.

uew.wordworx.co.nz/panin.html

The bible talks of the new world order and the new world religion. Religion plays a huge role in this process as does spirituality. Keep your eye on the ecumunical movement, the unifiying of churces and faiths accross the world, the new age movement is part of joining all these religions. Oprah is a big mover and saker in this arena and it is predicted in the bible and is part of ushering in the anti christ. Infact the new agers explain the way the rapture of the church as the universe getting ri dof all the troublemakers and opposres to one religion one government and this goes down really well with people too. All the trouble making war mongering christians Gone.

I still hold out hope for anyone who can not get too sucked into all this and remain true, but all the study and evidence and info out there has stripped away some of my firm faith in the bible as Gods word to us, but at least I am honest about it and Im not bashing all the other viewpoints and trains of thought, I am actually allowing it to challenge my faith and it has weekend it alot, and probably strengthening it otherways, but I am still seeking. I hope there is God, a benevelont loving God in control, becuase if there isnt and its up to us to sort it all out then where totally f _ _ked and we may pack our rifles and head for the hills and wait for the Royal United Nations of Roman Marines to come and blows us to bits - thats if they bother to waste a bullet on our sorry asses.

Happy Christmas

[bensonz]

The abrahamic religions and materialism/atheism/communism (etc.) go hand in hand.

Why do the atheistic education books even teach about Jesus and Mohammed in history classes? And using the year 33 as Christ's dead?

The thing is, the idiots love the classical and pointless theist - atheist battles, but we all know, in the end both are full with errors and mistakes.

Christianity is one big aid for the nwo, and has always been that. Christianity has been violently forced on other people, just as their ''atheistic'' opponements. Communism for example or the materialism we have these days in education, media and so called science.

What do I do now? What do I believe now? What is the truth?

[thirdwave]

The bible is a valid (more than a valid) document, at the very least it is a piece of the puzzle, to be referred to, examined and reasoned over in an objective fashion by any true seeker of the truth.

well it has to be relevant of we would not be talking about it... its what the relevance is... IMO there is enough there for us to see the relevance is not about a man who came to earth as a messenger of our god ..to die for us and our sins and to lay down a set of rules.

If people were prepared to let go of this faith and to just examine it including many other old texts and study with an open mind then it might be more a more beneficial document..

[bensonz]

well it has to be relevant of we would not be talking about it... its what the relevance is.

Exactly right! Im glad you said that although Im not convinced that you care what the relevance is or if it has any relevance to you?

IMO there is enough there for us to see the relevance is not about a man who came to earth as a messenger of our god ..to die for us and our sins and to lay down a set of rules.

IS That right ? Really? What Evidence? Id like to see it now please if you have it. Even one piece of evidence will do from all the old texts you say have examined and studdied, Im very interested, Im asking you to convert me, save me.

What does IMO mean by the way?

If people were prepared to let go of this faith and to just examine it including many other old texts and study with an open mind then it might be more a more beneficial document..

Ive let go now, tell me where this document is beneficial, now that I have let go of this faith.

[thirdwave]

Exactly right! Im glad you said that although Im not convinced that you care what the relevance is or if it has any relevance to you?

Totally not true... if you look at my post you will see how fascinated I am with the Mayan and Aztec calenders and the Hoppie Indians belief.. and so on...... there are fascinating links to it in many religions that are all relevant, the Hindu religion comes to mind...... but I don't believe for a second the relevance has anything to do with our God one little bit.... at least not a being called God anyway...

IS That right ? Really? What Evidence? Id like to see it now please if you have it. Even one piece of evidence will do from all the old texts you say have examined and studdied, Im very interested, Im asking you to convert me, save me.
Well for a start saving peeps from a bunch of thousands year old texts that have been saved and kept and bunch that have been destroyed, that people have biased their whole faith on takes allot of work.

first of all you don't need evidence to prove a certain god is not there as its built up on faith anyway and not fact. You need evidence of its true existence in order for it to be seen as a Fact which requires evidence to counter..... What evidence do you need? you have four small gospels which are the only thing that talks of his existence useing the name Jesus.... and nothing else ... in other religions you have the a man called Jesus depicted as someone else...not the son of God.... not being crucified.... not being resurrected... not creating miracles... in other religions you have the same story with a different name not used by the other religions.... Also you have Jesus depicted as the same morning star as Horus was thousands of years before.. you have the story of Lucifer (who was also the morning star) which is taken from older Greek legends... and so on...

Now what Evidence? .... there is no evidence because we are talking about a something that is not fact anyway... we are talking about something that strikers extremely smiler stories symbols to other texts that have bee around before all over the world... and we also see endless contradictions within the bible and among other religions.... contradicting time frames... story lines.... and not to mention the clear astrological symbolism used through out the bible and other older religions which the bible borrows from.

I wont bust my head trying to convince people of what I believe, But I will point it out and let others look for them selves...


What does IMO mean by the way?
In my Opinion :)


Ive let go now, tell me where this document is beneficial, now that I have let go of this faith.

i don't believe it is beneficial on its own... it is beneficial when researched along with many other things.. you can then see in it a very similar pattern of events and situations and symbols..... for example the "last days" ... which where talked about thousands of years before with the Mayans apocalypse... which really means "revealing" ...its not the end of the world but the start of a new Aeon.... you can even look at the Tarot and see how relevant some of the symbols are in the bible with the last days... especially in the (World/Universe) card.. looking at them without a dogmatic religious mind allows you to look at everything and simply see a bigger picture other than Jesus telling us how to behave of else..

now you have let go, I would have thought there is more beneficial info out there for you... and more space to to take it in.

[bensonz]

Totally not true... if you look at my post you will see how fascinated I am with the Mayan and Aztec calenders and the Hoppie Indians belief.. and so on...... there are fascinating links to it in many religions that are all relevant, the Hindu religion comes to mind...... but I don't believe for a second the relevance has anything to do with our God one little bit.... at least not a being called God anyway...


Well for a start saving peeps from a bunch of thousands year old texts that have been saved and kept and bunch that have been destroyed, that people have biased their whole faith on takes allot of work.

first of all you don't need evidence to prove a certain god is not there as its built up on faith anyway and not fact. You need evidence of its true existence in order for it to be seen as a Fact which requires evidence to counter..... What evidence do you need? you have four small gospels which are the only thing that talks of his existence useing the name Jesus.... and nothing else ... in other religions you have the a man called Jesus depicted as someone else...not the son of God.... not being crucified.... not being resurrected... not creating miracles... in other religions you have the same story with a different name not used by the other religions.... Also you have Jesus depicted as the same morning star as Horus was thousands of years before.. you have the story of Lucifer (who was also the morning star) which is taken from older Greek legends... and so on...

Now what Evidence? .... there is no evidence because we are talking about a something that is not fact anyway... we are talking about something that strikers extremely smiler stories symbols to other texts that have bee around before all over the world... and we also see endless contradictions within the bible and among other religions.... contradicting time frames... story lines.... and not to mention the clear astrological symbolism used through out the bible and other older religions which the bible borrows from.

I wont bust my head trying to convince people of what I believe, But I will point it out and let others look for them selves...


In my Opinion :)



i don't believe it is beneficial on its own... it is beneficial when researched along with many other things.. you can then see in it a very similar pattern of events and situations and symbols..... for example the "last days" ... which where talked about thousands of years before with the Mayans apocalypse... which really means "revealing" ...its not the end of the world but the start of a new Aeon.... you can even look at the Tarot and see how relevant some of the symbols are in the bible with the last days... especially in the (World/Universe) card.. looking at them without a dogmatic religious mind allows you to look at everything and simply see a bigger picture other than Jesus telling us how to behave of else..

now you have let go, I would have thought there is more beneficial info out there for you... and more space to to take it in.


Thanks for the well thought out response. I dont blame you for not trying to save me, I gave up on that a long time ago. Although I did convert quite a number of people to Christianty over the years, or God used me too, not sure on that one.

May I add something further for you to consider?

Just because there are similar stories in other books by other religions does not prove that the bible is wrong or right, its a moot point really.

Im not sure if you belive in God or the Devil , or Good or Bad, but the bible talks about lucifer the enemy of God, this make s it very easy for someone who has faith in the bible to discount all the other "arguably" false doctrines that dipict a jesus type figure and all the other religeons " One can concl;ude that this is all the work of satan designed to do exactly what they are doing, Blind people from the truth.

Now go with me, Im not preaching, Im quoting a biblical scripture...

Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life no one comes unto the father except through me. Thats a hell of statement. He is either telling the truth or he isnt. Thats assuming you havent discounted the bible as a fairy story, if you have then in essence yours and my discussion is a moot point.

That said, if you are allowing that the bible is beneficial to be researched along with other documents, then lets get to the crux of the message of bible is. Simplfied. God made Satan (he was good for a while then turned bad) God made man, Satan put doubt in mans mind, man listened to Satan instead of God in Gods eyes Man Stuffed up big time. But then God immediately paid the penalty for man by paying the price of the fine and going to jail in his place. All man has to do is admit that he's stuffed up and thank Jesus for salvation.

It all come down one question "who do you think Jesus is. The rest of it is smoke and mirrors set up by Satan to blind people from seeing that he is infact the saviour. (this is a bible based faith perspective for arguements sake only)

There are only two types of faith based religeon in the world. One is a biblical based faith in Jesus Christ as saviour, And two, is every other religeon that says he is not who he says he was. Or, dont even acknowledge him at all, or say he was some one else. IE He is Satan or something along those line, or he was a man but he wasnt God. You catch my drift.

Many people in this so called Truth Movement (which I must admit is a very arogant title, no more arogant than Jesus I guess) have gone as far as to say that Satan in the garden of Eden was actually the good one trying to save us from the Evil God. Michael Tsarion preaches that doctrine . From a Christian perspective, this is an extremly interesting point of view.

Id like to hear more from people on that topic and belief. Can you direct me to threads or topic which cover this please?.


One final point, of course if one discounts the bible as a fairytale then Jesus doesnt even need to enter into the discusion, the first debate is to establish if the bible is releveant. This was my starting point in this thread. I believe I have presented evidence that may prove the bible to be a divinley inspired document, at the very least its a phenomenan.


Thanks for your time and effort, happy trails.

[dlb2007]

Its shocking how you can take the warnings of "false prophets" from texts written by people we don't know, about another person whom we don't even have tangible evidence existed.... now that is some kick arse faith right there.... to take those warnings over people we can see today and judge on face value.... you wana talk about mind control?

lets just quote scripture

"Do not conform any longer to the spirit of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind"



"How about listening to what these "wolves" have got to say with an open mind?..."

The point of an open mind is rather like an open mouth, the whole reason for an open mind is to close it again on something solid, something tangible

"I mean, Jesus is very patronising if you ask me, and talks to me as if I'm some kind of idiot that has not got a mind unless i use his."

Well if you think about it if God is the creator we get all things from him right down to our intelligence

"If so, then what's the big fuss about man kind?, we would clearly be idiots and not really worth the trouble..."

who is to say what is or is not worth the trouble to God, perhaps to you mankind may not be worth the trouble all i can say to that is thank god, your not god.


"or are we some lab test by god?.... a bunch of invalids who cant think properly and he is hedging his bets on which ones are obedient and which ones end up being to "stupid" and don't conform...... I mean does he have some kind of inferiority complex?.. sounds like he has issues!"

it is often said that this life is just a test.

but i dont think so i just think it is a journey of self discovery, ultimatly we are the ones who individually choose heaven or hell, Heaven is a free gift for everyone.

"And also He does not really make much effort to state that obviously not all are wolves... kind of generalises really!"

the "wolves" are those who are working for satan, the new world order, the prince of this world, do not be conformed to the spirit of this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

"Also I trust you have read the bible through and through and are also very much aware that it very much has texts that contradict your first quote.... "

a contradition is only an opposition that has not been reasoned through

like

"Matthew
10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."

His sheep do not deny him, even if they do not believe in him, even if they say "christ does not exist" even if they profess to be athiests, if they are his sheep then they will insinctively bare witness to Christ before men, even if they do not profess so with their lips, they shall with their actions, "my sheep hear my voice and they follow me"..... and so it is with those who profess with their lips and not from their hearts.... that way shall all people be known who is of the flock and who is not.... "you shall know them by their fruits"

and


"Matthew
12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad."[/I]


this is the guy who also warned you about wolves in sheeps clothing... I guess what he really means is, anyone who does not think he is the son of God is not to be trusted...

you said jesus speaks as if we dont have a mind unless we use his, you are closer to the truth than you realise, we get everything from God like I said even our intelligence, we all have the spirit of god within us, we are after all gods creation, it is the spirit of God who talks to us today, every day, constantly if we care to listen, he that listens to the spirit of God and reads the gospels in accordance with that spirit will say "surely this man was the son of God"

it is only when you realise, father, son and spirit are all one and the same God that we begin to see that when we listen to the spirit of god within us we are listening to Jesus we are his sheep and ultimatly we are listening to the one who sent him, his father, we are listening to the one true God

1 Co 6:19
"Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?"


The son testifies to the father, the father glorifies the son, in the same manor the spirit testifies to the son and the son glorifies the spirit.


bensonz you said

"Satan put doubt in mans mind, man listened to Satan instead of God in Gods eyes Man Stuffed up big time. But then God immediately paid the penalty for man by paying the price of the fine and going to jail in his place. All man has to do is admit that he's stuffed up and thank Jesus for salvation."

forgive me for my interuption but i want to post this on the "atonement"

Now i think you will know where this is coming from because your almost at the point of discussing weather Jesus was lord, lunatic or demon.


We are faced, then, with a frightening alternative. This man we are
talking about either was (and is) just what He said or else a lunatic, or
something worse. Now it seems to me obvious that He was neither a lunatic
nor a fiend: and consequently, however strange or terrifying or unlikely it
may seem, I have to accept the view that He was and is God. God has landed
on this enemy-occupied world in human form.
And now, what was the purpose of it all? What did He come to do? Well,
to teach, of course; but as soon as you look into the New Testament or any
other Christian writing you will find they are constantly talking about
something different-about His death and His coming to life again. It is
obvious that Christians think the chief point of the story lies here. They
think the main thing He came to earth to do was to suffer and be killed.
Now before I became a Christian I was under the impression that the
first thing Christians had to believe was one particular theory as to what
the point of this dying was. According to that theory God wanted to punish
men for having deserted and joined the Great Rebel, but Christ volunteered
to be punished instead, and so God let us off. Now I admit that even this
theory does not seem to me quite so immoral and so silly as it used to; but
that is not the point I want to make. What I came to see later on was that
neither this theory nor any other is Christianity. The central Christian
belief is that Christ's death has somehow put us right with God and given us
a fresh start Theories as to how it did this are another matter. A good many
different theories have been held as to how it works; what all Christians
are agreed on is that it does work. I will tell you what I think it is like.
All sensible people know that if you are tired and hungry a meal will do you
good. But the modern theory of nourishment-all about the vitamins and
proteins-is a different thing. People ate their dinners and felt better long
before the theory of vitamins was ever heard of: and if the theory of
vitamins is some day abandoned they will go on eating their dinners just the
same. Theories about Christ's death are not Christianity: they are
explanations about how it works. Christians would not all agree as to how
important these theories are. My own church-the Church of England-does not
lay down any one of them as the right one. The Church of Rome goes a bit
further. But I think they will all agree that the thing itself is infinitely
more important than any explanations that theologians have produced. I think
they would probably admit that no explanation will ever be quite adequate to
the reality. But as I said in the preface to this book, I am only a layman,
and at this point we are getting into deep water. I can only tell you, for
what it is worth, how I, personally, look at the matter.

On my view the theories are not themselves the thing you are asked to
accept. Many of you no doubt have read Jeans or Eddington. What they do when
they want to explain the atom, or something of that sort, is to give you a
description out of which you can make a mental picture. But then they warn
you that this picture is not what the scientists actually believe. What the
scientists believe is a mathematical formula. The pictures are there only to
help you to understand the formula. They are not really true in the way the
formula is; they do not give you the real thing but only something more or
less like it. They are only meant to help, and if they do not help you can
drop them. The thing itself cannot be pictured, it can only be expressed
mathematically. We are in the same boat here. We believe that the death of
Christ is just that point in history at which something absolutely
unimaginable from outside shows through into our own world. And if we cannot
picture even the atoms of which our own world is built, of course we are not
going to be able to picture this. Indeed, if we found that we could fully
understand it, that very fact would show it was not what it professes to
be-the inconceivable, the uncreated, the thing from beyond nature, striking
down into nature like lightning. You may ask what good will it be to us if
we do not understand it. But that is easily answered. A man can eat his
dinner without understanding exactly how food nourishes him. A man can
accept what Christ has done without knowing how it works: indeed, he
certainly would not know how it works until he has accepted it.

We are told that Christ was killed for us, that His death has washed
out our sins, and that by dying He disabled death itself. That is the
formula. That is Christianity. That is what has to be believed. Any theories
we build up as to how Christ's death did all this are, in my view, quite
secondary: mere plans or diagrams to be left alone if they do not help us,
and, even if they do help us, not to be confused with the thing itself. All
the same, some of these theories are worth looking at.

The one most people have heard is the one I mentioned before -the one
about our being let off because Christ had volunteered to bear a punishment
instead of us. Now on the face of it that is a very silly theory. If God was
prepared to let us off, why on earth did He not do so? And what possible
point could there be in punishing an innocent person instead? None at all
that I can see, if you are thinking of punishment in the police-court sense.
On the other hand, if you think of a debt, there is plenty of point in a
person who has some assets paying it on behalf of someone who has not. Or if
you take "paying the penalty," not in the sense of being punished, but in
the more general sense of "standing the racket" or "footing the bill," then,
of course, it is a matter of common experience that, when one person has got
himself into a hole, the trouble of getting him out usually falls on a kind
friend.

Now what was the sort of "hole" man had got himself into? He had
tried to set up on his own, to behave as if he belonged to himself. In other
words, fallen man is not simply an imperfect creature who needs improvement:
he is a rebel who must lay down his arms. Laying down your arms,
surrendering, saying you are sorry, realising that you have been on the
wrong track and getting ready to start life over again from the ground
floor-that is the only way out of a "hole." This process of surrender-this
movement full speed astern-is what Christians call repentance. Now
repentance is no fun at all. It is something much harder than merely eating
humble pie. It means unlearning all the self-conceit and self-will that we
have been training ourselves into for thousands of years. It means killing
part of yourself, undergoing a kind of death.

In fact, it needs a good man
to repent. And here comes the catch. Only a bad person needs to repent: only
a good person can repent perfectly. The worse you are the more you need it
and the less you can do it. The only person who could do it perfectly would
be a perfect person-and he would not need it.

Remember, this repentance, this willing submission to humiliation and a
kind of death, is not something God demands of you before He will take you
back and which He could let you off if He chose: it is simply a description
of what going back to Him is like. If you ask God to take you back without
it, you are really asking Him to let you go back without going back. It
cannot hap pen. Very well, then, we must go through with it. But the same
badness which makes us need it, makes us unable to do it.

Can we do it if God helps us? Yes, but what do we mean when we talk of God helping us? We
mean God putting into us a bit of Himself, so to speak. He lends us a little
of His reasoning powers and that is how we think: He puts a little of His
love into us and that is how we love one another. When you teach a child
writing, you hold its hand while it forms the letters: that is, it forms the
letters because you are forming them. We love and reason because God loves
and reasons and holds our hand while we do it. Now if we had not fallen,
that would be all plain sailing. But unfortunately we now need God's help in
order to do something which God, in His own nature, never does at all-to
surrender, to suffer, to submit, to die. Nothing in God's nature corresponds
to this process at all. So that the one road for which we now need God's
leadership most of all is a road God, in His own nature, has never walked.
God can share only what He has: this thing, in His own nature, He has not.

But supposing God became a man-suppose our human nature which can
suffer and die was amalgamated with God's nature in one person-then that
person could help us. He could surrender His will, and suffer and die,
because He was man; and He could do it perfectly because He was God. You and
I can go through this process only if God does it in us; but God can do it
only if He becomes man. Our attempts at this dying will succeed only if we
men share in God's dying, just as our thinking can succeed only because it
is a drop out of the ocean of His intelligence: but we cannot share God's
dying unless God dies; and He cannot die except by being a man. That is the
sense in which He pays our debt, and suffers for us what He Himself need not
suffer at all.

I have heard some people complain that if Jesus was God as well as man,
then His sufferings and death lose all value in their eyes, "because it must
have been so easy for him." Others may (very rightly) rebuke the ingratitude
and ungraciousness of this objection; what staggers me is the
misunderstanding it betrays. In one sense, of course, those who make it are
right. They have even understated their own case. The perfect submission,
the perfect suffering, the perfect death were not only easier to Jesus
because He was God, but were possible only because He was God. But surely
that is a very odd reason for not accepting them? The teacher is able to
form the letters for the child because the teacher is grown-up and knows how
to write. That, of course, makes it easier for the teacher, and only because
it is easier for him can he help the child. If it rejected him because "it's
easy for grown-ups" and waited to learn writing from another child who could
not write itself (and so had no "unfair" advantage), it would not get on
very quickly. If I am drowning in a rapid river, a man who still has one
foot on the bank may give me a hand which saves my life. Ought I to shout
back (between my gasps) "No, it's not fair! You have an advantage! You're
keeping one foot on the bank"? That advantage-call it "unfair" if you
like-is the only reason why he can be of any use to me. To what will you
look for help if you will not look to that which is stronger than yourself?

Such is my own way of looking at what Christians call the Atonement.
But remember this is only one more picture. Do not mistake it for the thing
itself: and if it does not help you, drop it

http://www.lib.ru/LEWISCL/mere_engl.txt

[bensonz]

[QUOTE=dlb2007;690072]

"I mean, Jesus is very patronising if you ask me, and talks to me as if I'm some kind of idiot that has not got a mind unless i use his."

The same jesus who chased everyone out of the temple with a whip, AKA the the son of God, AKA the saviour of mankind AKA God? Are you saying that this
Jesus is patronizing you or another Jesus?

Who do you say Jesus is?

Im going to start a thread under religion with that question as for me it quickly diangnoses where someone is at on the subject. You can cherry pic scripture till your hearts content. Who or what do you say Jesus is?

[bensonz]

What about all the real evil christianity has imposed on the world historically:


314 Immediately after its full legalisation, the Christian Church attacks non-C\hristians. The Council of Ancyra denounces the worship of Goddess Artemis.


324 The emperor Constantine declares Christianity as the only official religion of the Roman Empire. In Dydima, Minor Asia, he sacks the Oracle of the god Apollo and tortures the pagan priests to death. He also evicts all non-Christian peoples from Mount Athos and destroys all the local Hellenic temples.

325 Nicene Council. The "godman" gets a promotion: 'Christ is Divine'


326 Constantine, following the instructions of his mother Helen, destroys the temple of the god Asclepius in Aigeai Cilicia and many temples of the goddess Aphrodite in Jerusalem, Aphaca, Mambre, Phoenicia, Baalbek, etc.


330 Constantine steals the treasures and statues of the pagan temples of Greece to decorate Constantinople, the new capital of his Empire.


335 Constantine sacks many pagan temples in Asia Minor and Palestine and orders the execution by crucifixion of “all magicians and soothsayers.” Martyrdom of the neoplatonist philosopher Sopatrus.


341 Constantius II (Flavius Julius Constantius) persecutes “all the soothsayers and the Hellenists.” Many gentile Hellenes are either imprisoned or executed.


346 New large scale persecutions against non-Christian peoples in Constantinople. Banishment of the famous orator Libanius accused as a “magician”.


353 An edict of Constantius orders the death penalty for all kind of worship through sacrifice and “idols”.


354 A new edict orders the closing of all the pagan temples. Some of them are profaned and turned into brothels or gambling rooms.

Execution of pagan priests begins.

A new edict of Constantius orders the destruction of the pagan temples and the execution of all “idolaters”.

First burning of libraries in various cities of the empire.

The first lime factories are organised next to the closed pagan temples. A major part of the holy architecture of the pagans is turned into lime.


357 Constantius outlaws all methods of divination (astrology not excluded).


359 In Skythopolis, Syria, the Christians organise the first death camps for the torture and executions of the arrested non-Christians from all around the empire.


361 to 363 Religious tolerance and restoration of the pagan cults is declared in Constantinople (11th December 361) by the pagan emperor Julian (Flavius Claudius Julianus).

363 Assassination of Julian (26th June).


364 Emperor Jovian orders the burning of the Library of Antioch.

An Imperial edict (11th September) orders the death penalty for all those that worship their ancestral gods or practice divination (“sileat omnibus perpetuo divinandi curiositas”).

Three different edicts (4th February, 9th September, 23rd December) order the confiscation of all properties of the pagan temples and the death penalty for participation in pagan rituals, even private ones.

The Church Council of Laodicea (Phrygia – western Asia Minor) orders that religious observances are to be conducted on Sunday and not on Saturday. Sunday becomes the new Sabbath. The practice of staying at home and resting on Saturday declared sinful and anathema to Christ.


365 An imperial edict from Emperor Valens, a zealous Arian Christian (17th November), forbids pagan officers of the army to command Christian soldiers.


370 Valens orders a tremendous persecution of non-Christian peoples in all the Eastern Empire. In Antioch, among many other non-Christians, the ex-governor Fidustius and the priests Hilarius and Patricius are executed. The philosopher Simonides is burned alive and the philosopher Maximus is decapitated. All the friends of Julian are persecuted (Orebasius, Sallustius, Pegasius etc.).

Tons of books are burnt in the squares of the cities of the Eastern Empire.


372 Valens orders the governor of Minor Asia to exterminate all the Hellenes and all documents of their wisdom.


373 New prohibition of all divination methods is issued. The term “pagan” (pagani, villagers, equivalent to the modern insult, “peasants”) is introduced by the Christians to demean non-believers.


375 The temple of Asclepius in Epidaurus, Greece, is closed down by the Christians.


380 On 27th February Christianity becomes the exclusive religion of the Roman Empire by an edict of the Emperor Flavius Theodosius, requiring that:


"All the various nations which are subject to our clemency and moderation should continue in the profession of that religion which was delivered to the Romans by the divine Apostle Peter."

The non-Christians are called “loathsome, heretics, stupid and blind”.

In another edict, Theodosius calls “insane” those that do not believe to the Christian God and outlaws all disagreement with the Church dogmas.

Ambrosius, bishop of Milan, begins the destruction of pagan temples of his area. The Christian priests lead the hungry mob against the temple of goddess Demeter in Eleusis and try to lynch the hierophants Nestorius and Priskus. The 95 year old hierophant Nestorius ends the Eleusinian Mysteries and announces "the predominance of mental darkness over the human race."


381 At the Council of Constantinople the 'Holy Spirit' is declared 'Divine' (thus sanctioning a triune god). On 2nd May, Theodosius deprives of all their rights any Christians who return to the pagan religion. Throughout the Eastern Empire the pagan temples and libraries are looted or burned down. On 21st December, Theodosius outlaws visits to Hellenic temples.

In Constantinople, the Temple of Aphrodite is turned into a brothel and the temples of the Sun and Artemis to stables.


382 “Hellelujah” (“Glory to Yahweh”) is imposed in the Christian mass.


384 Theodosius orders the Praetorian Prefect Maternus Cynegius, a dedicated Christian, to cooperate with local bishops and destroy the temples of the pagans in Northern Greece and Minor Asia.


385 to 388 Prefect Maternus Cynegius, encouraged by his fanatic wife, and bishop 'Saint' Marcellus with his gangs, scour the countryside and sack and destroy hundreds of Hellenic temples, shrines and altars. Among others they destroy the temple of Edessa, the Cabeireion of Imbros, the temple of Zeus in Apamea, the temple of Apollo in Dydima and all the temples of Palmyra.

Thousands of innocent pagans from all sides of the empire suffer martyrdom in the notorious death camps of Skythopolis.


386 Theodosius outlaws the care of the sacked pagan temples.


388 Public talks on religious subjects are outlawed by Theodosius. The old orator Libanius sends his famous epistle “Pro Templis” to Theodosius with the hope that the few remaining Hellenic temples will be respected and spared.


389 to 390 All non-Christian calendars and dating-methods are outlawed. Hordes of fanatic hermits from the desert flood the cities of the Middle East and Egypt and destroy statues, altars, libraries and pagan temples, and lynch the pagans. Theophilus, Patriarch of Alexandria, starts heavy persecutions against non-Christian peoples, turning the temple of Dionysius into a Christian church, burning down the Mithraeum of the city, destroying the temple of Zeus and burlesques the pagan priests before they are killed by stoning. The Christian mob profanes the cult images.


391 On 24th February, a new edict of Theodosius prohibits not only visits to pagan temples but also looking at the vandalised statues. New heavy persecutions occur all around the empire. In Alexandria, Egypt, pagans, led by the philosopher Olympius, revolt and after some street fights they lock themselves inside the fortified temple of the god Serapis (the Serapeion). After a violent siege, the Christians take over the building, demolish it, burn its famous library and profane the cult images.


392 On 8th November, Theodosius outlaws all the non-Christian rituals and names them “superstitions of the gentiles” (gentilicia superstitio). New full scale persecutions are ordered against pagans. The Mysteries of Samothrace are ended and the priests slaughtered. In Cyprus the local bishop “Saint” Epiphanius and “Saint” Tychon destroy almost all the temples of the island and exterminate thousands of non-Christians. The local Mysteries of goddess Aphrodite are ended. Theodosius’s edict declares:

“The ones that won’t obey pater Epiphanius have no right to keep living in that island.”
The pagans revolt against the Emperor and the Church in Petra, Aeropolis, Rafia, Gaza, Baalbek and other cities of the Middle East.


393 The Pythian Games, the Aktia Games and the Olympic Games are outlawed as part of the Hellenic “idolatry”. The Christians sack the temples of Olympia.


395 Two new edicts (22nd July and 7th August) cause new persecutions against pagans. Rufinus, the eunuch Prime Minister of Emperor Flavius Arcadius directs the hordes of baptised Goths (led by Alaric) to the country of the Hellenes. Encouraged by Christian monks the barbarians sack and burn many cities (Dion, Delphi, Megara, Corinth, Pheneos, Argos, Nemea, Lycosoura, Sparta, Messene, Phigaleia, Olympia, etc.), slaughter or enslave innumerable gentile Hellenes and burn down all the temples. Among others, they burn down the Eleusinian Sanctuary and burn alive all its priests (including the hierophant of Mithras Hilarius).


396 On 7th December, a new edict by Arcadius orders that paganism be treated as high treason. Imprisonment of the few remaining pagan priests and hierophants.


397 “Demolish them!” Flavius Arcadius orders that all the still standing pagan temples be demolished.


398 The 4th Church Council of Carthage prohibits everybody, including Christian bishops, from studying pagan books. Porphyrius, bishop of Gaza, demolishes almost all the pagan temples of his city (except nine of them that remain active).


399 With a new edict (13th July) Flavius Arcadius orders all remaining pagan temples, mainly in the countryside, be immediately demolished.


400 Bishop Nicetas destroys the Oracle of Dionysus in Vesai and baptises all the non-Christians of this area.


401 The Christian mob of Carthage lynches non-Christians and destroys temples and “idols”. In Gaza too, the local bishop “Saint” Porphyrius sends his followers to lynch pagans and to demolish the remaining nine still active temples of the city.

The 15th Council of Chalcedon orders all the Christians that still keep good relations with their non-Christian relatives to be excommunicated (even after their death).


405 John Chrysostom sends hordes of grey-dressed monks armed with clubs and iron bars to destroy the “idols” in all the cities of Palestine.


406 John Chrysostom collects funds from rich Christian women to financially support the demolition of the Hellenic temples. In Ephesus he orders the destruction of the famous temple of Artemis. In Salamis, Cyprus, “Saints” Epiphanius and Eutychius continue the persecutions of the pagans and the total destruction of their temples and sanctuaries.


407 A new edict outlaws once more all the non-Christian acts of worship.


408 The emperor of the Western Empire, Honorius, and the emperor of the Eastern Empire, Arcadius, order all the sculptures of the pagan temples to be either destroyed or to be taken away. Private ownership of pagan sculpture is also outlawed. The local bishops lead new heavy persecutions against the pagans and new book burning. The judges that have pity for the pagans are also persecuted. “Saint” Augustine massacres hundreds of protesting pagans in Calama, Algeria.


409 Another edict orders all methods of divination including astrology to be punished by death.


415 In Alexandria, the Christian mob, urged by the bishop Cyril, attacks a few days before the Judeo-Christian Pascha (Easter) and cuts to pieces the famous and beautiful philosopher Hypatia. The pieces of her body, carried around by the Christian mob through the streets of Alexandria, are finally burned together with her books in a place called Cynaron.

On 30th August, new persecutions start against all the pagan priests of North Africa who end their lives either crucified or burned alive. Emperor Theodosius II expels the Jews from Alexandria.


416 The inquisitor Hypatius, alias “The Sword of God”, exterminates the last pagans of Bithynia. In Constantinople (7th December) all non-Christian army officers, public employees and judges are dismissed.


423 Emperor Theodosius II declares (8th June) that the religion of the pagans is nothing more than “demon worship” and orders all those who persist in practicing it to be punished by imprisonment and torture.


429 The temple of goddess Athena (Parthenon) on the Acropolis of Athens is sacked. The Athenian pagans are persecuted.

431 Council of Ephesus ("Robber Synod"). Promotion for the godman – "Christ is complete God and complete man."


435 On 14th November, a new edict by Theodosius II orders the death penalty for all “heretics” and pagans of the empire. Only Judaism is considered a legal non-Christian religion.


438 Theodosius II issues an new edict (31st January) against the pagans, incriminating their “idolatry” as the reason of a recent plague!


440 to 450 The Christians demolish all the monuments, altars and temples of Athens, Olympia, and other Greek cities.


448 Theodosius II orders all non-Christian books to be burned.
450 All the temples of Aphrodisias (the City of the Goddess Aphrodite) are demolished and all its libraries burned down. The city is renamed Stavroupolis (City of the Cross).

451 Council of Chalcedon. New edict by Theodosius II (4th November) emphasises that “idolatry” is punished by death. Assertion of orthodox doctrine over the 'Monophysites' – 'JC has single, divine nature.'



457 to 491 Sporadic persecutions against the pagans of the Eastern Empire. Among others, the physician Jacobus and the philosopher Gessius are executed. Severianus, Herestios, Zosimus, Isidorus and others are tortured and imprisoned. The proselytiser Conon and his followers exterminate the last non-Christians of Imbros Island, Northeast Aegean Sea. The last worshippers of Lavranius Zeus are exterminated in Cyprus.


482 to 488 The majority of the pagans of Minor Asia are exterminated after a desperate revolt against the emperor and the Church.


486 More “underground” pagan priests are discovered, arrested, burlesqued, tortured and executed in Alexandria, Egypt.


515 Baptism becomes obligatory even for those that already say they are Christians.

The emperor of Constantinople, Anastasius, orders the massacre of the pagans in the Arabian city Zoara and the demolition of the temple of local god Theandrites.


523 Emperor Justin I outlaws the Arian heresy and campaigns to suppress Arianism everywhere.


528 Emperor Justinian outlaws the “alternative” Olympian Games of Antioch. He also orders the execution—by fire, crucifixion, tearing to pieces by wild beasts or cutting to pieces by iron nails—of all who practice “sorcery, divination, magic or idolatry” and prohibits all teachings by the pagans (“the ones suffering from the blasphemous insanity of the Hellenes”).


529 Justinian outlaws the Athenian Philosophical Academy and has its property confiscated.


532 The inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus, a fanatical monk, leads a crusade against the pagans of Minor Asia.


542 Justinian allows the inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus to forcibly convert the pagans of Phrygia, Caria and Lydia in Asia Minor. Within 35 years of this crusade, 99 churches and 12 monasteries are built on the sites of demolished pagan temples.


546 Hundreds of pagans are put to death in Constantinople by the inquisitor Ioannis Asiacus.


556 Justinian orders the notorious inquisitor Amantius to go to Antioch, to find, arrest, torture and exterminate the last non-Christians of the city and burn all the private libraries down.


562 Mass arrests, burlesquing, tortures, imprisonments and executions of gentile Hellenes in Athens, Antioch, Palmyra and Constantinople.


578 to 582 The Christians torture and crucify Hellenes all around the Eastern Empire, and exterminate the last non-Christians of Heliopolis (Baalbek).


580 The Christian inquisitors attack a secret temple of Zeus in Antioch. The priest commits suicide, but the rest of the pagans are arrested. All the prisoners, the Vice Governor Anatolius included, are tortured and sent to Constantinople to face trial. Sentenced to death they are thrown to the lions. The wild animals being unwilling to tear them to pieces, they end up crucified. Their dead bodies are dragged in the streets by the Christian mob and afterwards thrown unburied in the dump.


583 New persecutions against the gentile Hellenes by Emperor Maurice.


590 In all the Eastern Empire the Christian accusers “discover” pagan conspiracies. New storm of torture and executions.



Original Source: Vlasis Rassias, Demolish Them! … Published in Greek, Athens 1994

As we can plainly see christianity is evil. This isn't even talking about the kidnapped women and children who were RAPED by catholic and protestant priest, had their tongues cut off to avoid communication with the public, and executed. And the Native American genocide where they would burn Natives alive and the Vatican would falsely claim all of the Americas as it's land and that the Natives "owed" the Vatican for living rent free on Vatican land for centuries. The Vaticans false sense of entitlement via the laws of discovery and conquest and the bull of borgia is truely disgusting.


Christianity is just a word made up by men.

[thirdwave]

Just because there are similar stories in other books by other religions does not prove that the bible is wrong or right, its a moot point really.
it proves that the same things have happend long before, which takes away the potency of it and the fact it claims to be the only true god.... as its anyones choice.... not all of them are right.... only 1 can be.. and even that oue could easily be wrong or misunderstood....IMO to base such strong faith on it is like stabbing in the dark with complete faith you wont hit something you should not.

Im not sure if you belive in God or the Devil , or Good or Bad, but the bible talks about lucifer the enemy of God, this make s it very easy for someone who has faith in the bible to discount all the other "arguably" false doctrines that dipict a jesus type figure and all the other religeons " One can concl;ude that this is all the work of satan designed to do exactly what they are doing, Blind people from the truth.

I belive that the animal we are... in our genes there is good and evil.... we think good things and we think evil things... it is down to what ethics we grasp and what understanding we have of the universe that helps us see what is good.... if one thinks an evil thought it does not make them evil... if they choose that evil thought as a source for manifestation then they have chosen an evil path... they have decided to allow the evil in the selves to be the more potent vibration they use.

I think God and the Devil as simply symbols to describe this inner battle we have. but both need to be addressed in order to keep a perspective on it all as ignoring the Devil in us does not necessarily contain him.



Now go with me, Im not preaching, Im quoting a biblical scripture...

Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life no one comes unto the father except through me. Thats a hell of statement. He is either telling the truth or he isnt. Thats assuming you havent discounted the bible as a fairy story, if you have then in essence yours and my discussion is a moot point.
I believe there are some texts in there taken from an enlightened individual or individuals that have attempted to pass knowledge on to people.... But I also think parts have been taken twisted and add too....

that statement has always come across badly to me.... be it pulled out of an original context or added in.... it sounds like food for Dogma.

That said, if you are allowing that the bible is beneficial to be researched along with other documents, then lets get to the crux of the message of bible is. Simplfied. God made Satan (he was good for a while then turned bad) God made man, Satan put doubt in mans mind, man listened to Satan instead of God in Gods eyes Man Stuffed up big time. But then God immediately paid the penalty for man by paying the price of the fine and going to jail in his place. All man has to do is admit that he's stuffed up and thank Jesus for salvation.

Ok, now here it is.... I do not believe another can save you.... I think you are the only one that can do that.... some may have found happiness useing Jesus christ as a platform to base a faith on where you find salvation for your self.... but to me its also like someone who uses a set of arm bands to save their life in the water... but then rely's on them so much they never taken them off and learn to swim..... when the threat of the arm bands braking comes they shit them sevles because they know they cant really swim.

no one is perfect and there is no such thing.... there are simply two energies that we can choose from... and there is one of them where everyone one of us can tell is not where we want to go or to put others in.... that's all i need to know.... I do not see rules helping as oppression is not a good building block for the better vibration...

its like trying to paint a black line but useing black paper..



It all come down one question "who do you think Jesus is. The rest of it is smoke and mirrors set up by Satan to blind people from seeing that he is infact the saviour. (this is a bible based faith perspective for arguements sake only)
its a trick though... Satan as in the bible is not really bad... he is just a sheep dog.... in the bible it uses things that people have always struggled with as a method of fear.... if you want to have sex in an odd way with that women... its Satan! .... if you are gay... its Satan.... if you find your self think the bible is not so true all the time... its Satan! but if you research what Satan is pre Christianity... he was not as evil as the bible makes out...

IMO Jesus as a person... was probably a few people.... a few prophets back then who were very wise and clued up..... there was movement much like today with people bring awareness to the masses and being received .... the Romans like today tried to put a stop to it and due to how easy people were to manipulate back then they done what was needed... as for the story of Jesus... this is also probably mixed up from a few other lives and mixed in with symbology that has been used many times before by the ruling authority's...

I think if Christians understood it was not Jesus saving them.. but actually them selves they would be more prepared and more difficult to manipulate.. by all means they can keep useing Jesus... but that can also create something else if they like... they obviously want to be good and want to go to a nice place... so trust them selves more to get there....

There are only two types of faith based religeon in the world. One is a biblical based faith in Jesus Christ as saviour, And two, is every other religeon that says he is not who he says he was. Or, dont even acknowledge him at all, or say he was some one else. IE He is Satan or something along those line, or he was a man but he wasnt God. You catch my drift.

Many people in this so called Truth Movement (which I must admit is a very arogant title, no more arogant than Jesus I guess) have gone as far as to say that Satan in the garden of Eden was actually the good one trying to save us from the Evil God. Michael Tsarion preaches that doctrine . From a Christian perspective, this is an extremly interesting point of view.

Id like to hear more from people on that topic and belief. Can you direct me to threads or topic which cover this please?.


I think in order to get the right info you have to put the concept of God aside.... and that there is one god with the truth.... I think even if this was true it would be stretching back from such a long time and you only need to see how most cant agree on him that by this day and age the message would be some what tarnished.

I think its clear man kind has been controlled by religions for a long long time and although many are ignorant today about spiritual matters.. we live in a day where at least people cant be tricked or manipulated as much by them.... ok there are certainly other things taking its place but we can all now stand on our own feet with regards to who god is.. I think this is what the NWO is... an attempt to oppress people being the god in them sevles... and keeping them the slaves...

much of the secrets of religion have been let out the back by people in secret societies so have to be seen with an open mind.... simply listen and see if it makes sense.. If you are willing to look beyond wikipidia I would advice you check out some of Tsarions works... he is not always bang on but he will definitely offer some interesting alternative info for people to get stuck into.... there are a few threads on him here..



One final point, of course if one discounts the bible as a fairytale then Jesus doesnt even need to enter into the discusion, the first debate is to establish if the bible is releveant. This was my starting point in this thread. I believe I have presented evidence that may prove the bible to be a divinley inspired document, at the very least its a phenomenan.


Thanks for your time and effort, happy trails.

a fairly tail it might be... but it does not mean its not based on relevant things that has happened or do happen....

Also I will add... the elite actly TELL THE TRUTH

Bush said there were terrorists threatening our freedom ... TRUE ...them
Bush said they want to use planes to poison us.... TRUE.... chem trails
Bush said that terrorists where behind 9/11.... True... ... them

he even said it all with a smirk on his face.

if you look at how they work they are often telling the truth and telling us things.... its just in a hidden way.... its always manipulation...
Global warming.... its because of what "we" are doing..... well "we" as in THEM maybe.. for there own advantage... when in reality its nothing to do with what we do... and is also to do with natural happenings...

if you are gay Satan will get you... that is probably true... but maybe Satan getting you is not as bad as it makes out.... maybe Satan can be helpful sometimes... not all the time... but sometimes.

[bensonz]

As you will see I mentioned Michaeal Tsarion in my previous text.

He preaches that the Devil is Good, and God is Bad, and is a desciple of Alistair Crowley, encourages the Tarot and wears pentagram earings. It's easy to identify what team he plays for. He worships Satan in my humble opinion..

A word study of his name clearly identifies ihim as an appointed ruler of the reptile Lizard men

Michael Tsarion - The Lizard King

Tsar

1. also tsar or tzar (zär, tsär) A male monarch or emperor, especially .
2. A person having great power; an autocrat:
3. An appointed official having special powers to regulate or supervise an activity: a racetrack czar; an energy czar.


I-on

–noun 1. Classical Mythology. the eponymous ancestor of the Ionians: a son of Apollo and Creusa who is abandoned by his mother but returns to become an attendant in Apollo's temple at Delphi.

Saurian

1. belonging or pertaining to the Sauria, a group of reptiles originally including the lizards, crocodiles, and several extinct forms but now technically restricted to the lizards.
2. resembling a lizard.
–noun 3. a saurian animal, as a dinosaur or lizard.

Origin:
1800–10; < NL Sauri(a) an order of reptiles + -an; see

[thirdwave]

As you will see I mentioned Michaeal Tsarion in my previous text.

He preaches that the Devil is Good, and God is Bad, and is a desciple of Alistair Crowley, encourages the Tarot and wears pentagram earings. It's easy to identify what team he plays for. He worships Satan in my humble opinion..

Dear me, then why ask me for somthing to check out??? ..read what you like! and have what ever opionion you like..

I am not going to get involved another debate with ignorance.

although i would love to see where he says the devil is good and god is bad... you put it so well!!

and I also like Crowley, but do not worship the devil...

I make no judgement based on the bible.... so I would not even accuse him of such things..


A word study of his name clearly identifies ihim as an appointed ruler of the reptile Lizard men

Michael Tsarion - The Lizard King

Tsar

1. also tsar or tzar (zär, tsär) A male monarch or emperor, especially .
2. A person having great power; an autocrat:
3. An appointed official having special powers to regulate or supervise an activity: a racetrack czar; an energy czar.


I-on

–noun 1. Classical Mythology. the eponymous ancestor of the Ionians: a son of Apollo and Creusa who is abandoned by his mother but returns to become an attendant in Apollo's temple at Delphi.

Saurian

1. belonging or pertaining to the Sauria, a group of reptiles originally including the lizards, crocodiles, and several extinct forms but now technically restricted to the lizards.
2. resembling a lizard.
–noun 3. a saurian animal, as a dinosaur or lizard.

Origin:
1800–10; < NL Sauri(a) an order of reptiles + -an; see

I am not going to get into all that bollox... I happen to think the guy talks sense.... If he does worship the Devil, then i would start checking the devil out... people here have done the same thing with my name ...talking complete bollox about it...

what about StarofOrion?

[bensonz]

Dear me, then why ask me for somthing to check out??? ..read what you like! and have what ever opionion you like..

I am not going to get involved another debate with ignorance.

although i would love to see where he says the devil is good and god is bad... you put it so well!!

and I also like Crowley, but do not worship the devil...

I make no judgement based on the bible.... so I would not even accuse him of such things..



I am not going to get into all that bollox... I happen to think the guy talks sense.... If he does worship the Devil, then i would start checking the devil out... people here have done the same thing with my name ...talking complete bollox about it...

what about StarofOrion?

Still he does preach on and on about the meanings of names, so its not bollocks, And Thats why he is so dangerous because he sounds convincing and you have just said you would start checking the devil out. Truth Geekers would be a more apt title for this place that truth seekers.

[bensonz]

In one of Tsarions videos he clearly states that the serpent in the garden of eden was trying to rescue adam and eve from the Oppresser who wanted to controll all the DNA, IE God. Its a doctrine of evil and clearly shows his allegience and to say you actually like LAisatir crowly who called himseld 666 the beast, clearly shopws me what side you are on too.

Have a nice day.

[thirdwave]

Still he does preach on and on about the meanings of names, so its not bollocks, And Thats why he is so dangerous because he sounds convincing and you have just said you would start checking the devil out. Truth Geekers would be a more apt title for this place that truth seekers.

I do not judge from what the bible says about the "devil".... I do not base my view on that.... I do not even fear the devil... I have explained to you my views on the devil..so why would i fear the fact you think Tsarion worships a being called the devil??

as far as I have told from reading his books he does not believe the devil to even exsist! ..so i have no idea what you are talking about..

he also does not hide any of the things you have accused him of... which is not a sign of dishonesty....

[bensonz]

If you read my posts you will see that whilst I struggle with It, I am quite prepared to let everything I have believed go - but it will need to be a very sound argument based on fact - not the mumbled jumbled optionions of "Alternative Knowledge" culture or Truth Movement" who can't make there minds up as to what they really believe.

I think the "truth movement" needs to establish itself with some sort of tenants or premise or truth statement to stand on, even a statement
of faith or belief.

"Exposing the dream world we believe in to be real" Sounds okay, but where are the facts what is real?? What are you replacing it with? Lizards?

IE What exactly do you people, as a, group really believe, or are you just a bunch of individuals who like to argue with eachother because no one can agree on anything?

A doctrine or belief system needs to have answers to the big three. Where do I come from? Where am I? and where am I going? Or the fourth What am I. What truth are you seeking? You may respond, we aren't seeking the answers to any of those questions. Okay then can we establish even a premise as to what truth is?

Apologetics, which is the art or science of defending ones point of is only really open to those who have gone far enough to clearly establish what it is they believe and have it written down. One then argues or apologizes from one platform of doctrinal belief. You would call that Dogma. I call it facts.

Basically if two people can not agree on the platform from the beginning, then all argument is pointless and moot. So basically any argument about the bible is futile if there is no point of agreement as to what it even is from the start.

Hey Im cool if it’s just a pass time hobby, the joy is in the discussion and all that.

On the other hand I have a responsibility to a lot people I care about. Ive been to bible college, I have been a youth pastor, I have led friends of mine to the belief in Christ as savior, in other words I have converted people. Now If I am going to drop 20 years of what I have believed in , then some one is going to have to have the truth. Not a snooty little jumped up snarkey opinion. And if you an convince me I will convert to this truth.

[thirdwave]

In one of Tsarions videos he clearly states that the serpent in the garden of eden was trying to rescue adam and eve from the Oppresser who wanted to controll all the DNA, IE God. Its a doctrine of evil and clearly shows his allegience and to say you actually like LAisatir crowly who called himseld 666 the beast, clearly shopws me what side you are on too.

Have a nice day.

How do you know that's not true... its not a real story anyway...

prometheus was an early story that the bible picked from to depict Satan/Lucifer.. and he was good and he was trying to help man kind... from the punishment that Zeus gave man...

like I say try to dig deeper in your research... please show me the facts that show Lucifer or Satan to be the evil the bible depicts them as.. forget the bible existed and research Satan and Lucifer and see what you come across..

the evil people in the world are not evil because they are "satanists" anyway they would be evil who ever they got there faith from...

it makes me laugh how all Tsarion has to do is possibly be wrong in some of his views and you think he is a Satanist.... are you sure you don't think all ocultists are Satanists?

[newdecades]

In one of Tsarions videos he clearly states that the serpent in the garden of eden was trying to rescue adam and eve from the Oppresser who wanted to controll all the DNA, IE God. Its a doctrine of evil and clearly shows his allegience and to say you actually like LAisatir crowly who called himseld 666 the beast, clearly shopws me what side you are on too.

Have a nice day.

tsarion does not see the serpent in the garden of eden as the devil! he says the serpent represents the first race of beings that were mixed with alien dna that tried to 'save' or set free the 'adamic' race which is represented by adam and eve. so it has nothing to do with satan. you see the serpent as satan because that's what you've been told all your life and now your mind is shut and brainwashed.

[phildee3]

If you read my posts you will see that whilst I struggle with It, I am quite prepared to let everything I have believed go



Like many people, you have confused "alternative" with "anti-Christian" -
and Christianity with the establishment.

Jesus was the ultimate rebel against the establishment.

Establishment Christianity is fake.



I think the "truth movement" needs to establish itself with some sort of tenants or premise or truth statement to stand on, even a statement
of faith or belief.



That's what the Satanist illuminati did with Jesus' message!

[zero]

Jesus was the ultimate rebel against the establishment.

Establishment Christianity is fake.

Amen.:cool:

[thirdwave]

If you read my posts you will see that whilst I struggle with It, I am quite prepared to let everything I have believed go - but it will need to be a very sound argument based on fact -

Ok, so you dont need fact to base your faith on it... but you need fact to remove it?

I would say just have faith ;)




not the mumbled jumbled optionions of "Alternative Knowledge" culture or Truth Movement" who can't make there minds up as to what they really believe.
just the mumbled thousands year old texts of old occultists fucking with humanity.

I think the "truth movement" needs to establish itself with some sort of tenants or premise or truth statement to stand on, even a statement
of faith or belief.
Let it do what it wants and you take what you think makes sense...if you think the universe's saviour is all based on the views of one man 2000 years go who was killed by the PTB then do so! ... if you think the concept of God and reality is a little more complexed than that and life is about finding your own way of dealing with it and evolving into it... then do that...

"Exposing the dream world we believe in to be real" Sounds okay, but where are the facts what is real?? What are you replacing it with? Lizards?
Exactly.. you have stated it your self... what is real? ... most peoples reality requires a big wall around it.... lizards??... are you referring to the ancient reptilian blood line that has been relevant on earth for thousands and thousands of years? (and is even brought up in the bible i might add)


IE What exactly do you people, as a, group really believe, or are you just a bunch of individuals who like to argue with eachother because no one can agree on anything?

Robert Anton Wilson - “Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence.”

why are you so desperate to believe something...? ... everything is possible.

A doctrine or belief system needs to have answers to the big three. Where do I come from? Where am I? and where am I going? Or the fourth What am I. What truth are you seeking? You may respond, we aren't seeking the answers to any of those questions. Okay then can we establish even a premise as to what truth is?
Maybe the truth is we find the truth hard to contemplate and we all have work to do.. and should our best to do it with a smile.

Basically if two people can not agree on the platform from the beginning, then all argument is pointless and moot. So basically any argument about the bible is futile if there is no point of agreement as to what it even is from the start. lets not forget it has been excepted as truth for a very very long time... all our family's have been effected by it and the society we live in was built upon it... today people scratch their heads on how the fuck that happened..... by all means believe it, but we are talking about the authority it has had... the self claimed authority....


On the other hand I have a responsibility to a lot people I care about. Ive been to bible college, I have been a youth pastor, I have led friends of mine to the belief in Christ as savior, in other words I have converted people. Now If I am going to drop 20 years of what I have believed in , then some one is going to have to have the truth. Not a snooty little jumped up snarkey opinion. And if you an convince me I will convert to this truth.

It seems you have taken positives from it.... so maybe you don't need to stop... it just seems that if somone points out things that can be changed or imporved upon with a religion it makes people defencive rather than eager to change and to evolve...

look at a bigger picture and just update your faith.... be open to more and not just limit your self..... everything updates its self... even magick... today chaos magicians point out how so much in the past they feel has been unnecessary within magick.... and you see more of what it is you have been inspired by with new outlooks.....

in your case maybe you could see that maybe Jesus has allot to do with your selves.... and how you depict him... or maybe you are fine the way you are? ... and no one will force you to change... but you will probably get a bumpy ride trying to keep others in the same place...

[christuffer]

Jesus is as fake as Christianity.

The Jesus story is just a cobbled together forgery, centuries after the supposed events by the Catholic church and a tool for control as it still is.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/imagine.html

It is now losing its usefulness and is being gradually eroded.

[bensonz]

[QUOTE=t
it makes me laugh how all Tsarion has to do is possibly be wrong in some of his views and you think he is a Satanist.... are you sure you don't think all ocultists are Satanists?[/QUOTE]

Why would Tsarion work so hard to discredit a fairy tail -

You prove to me that satan and the devil is good, I dont have to prove anything to you. And Im glad you it makes you laugh. Laughter is the best medicine.

[bensonz]

Jesus is as fake as Christianity.

The Jesus story is just a cobbled together forgery, centuries after the supposed events by the Catholic church and a tool for control as it still is.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/imagine.html

It is now losing its usefulness and is being gradually eroded.

I man came down from a UFO Last night in my back garden and told me that Jeus and Christianity is real - so there!

[christuffer]

I man came down from a UFO Last night in my back garden and told me that Jeus and Christianity is real - so there!



Well that's more convincing that most Christian evidence.

[newdecades]

Why would Tsarion work so hard to discredit a fairy tail -

You prove to me that satan and the devil is good, I dont have to prove anything to you. And Im glad you it makes you laugh. Laughter is the best medicine.

when did tsarion say satan is good? maybe that's what christians hear when tsarion talks "satan is good, satan is good..." haha.
i think you misunderstood him.

[bensonz]

when did tsarion say satan is good? maybe that's what christians hear when tsarion talks "satan is good, satan is good..." haha.
i think you misunderstood him.


Thats what tsarion always says "do your homework". This bloke tsarion said that Satan was trying to rescue adam and eve from God. I cant make it clearer than that, other than to say he is a blavastky deciple and a deciple of crowley, thats enough info for me to conlude that he is a stanist. Any one who can put a positive spin on their doctrines and have you believing blavastsy and crowley are lovely people just like you favourite aunty and uncle is doing a good job, but a very dangerous job at that. And as I said I dont have to prove it to you, do your own homework.

I never said I was a Christian either by the way. So many groups call themselves Chistians today, Mormoans Catholics, protestants Jeohavs Witnesses, seventh day adventists, the list goes on, I am none of those and there for chose not to call my self a christian.

[bensonz]

Well that's more convincing that most Christian evidence.

Can I assume you now believe in the bible becuase I told you a ufo came down and a litte green man came out and told me the bible is true?

Off course not.

Why, becaue you arent interested. But its true it really really really happened so you a had better get reading your bible.

I think he said is name was mork from ork.

[bensonz]

tsarion does not see the serpent in the garden of eden as the devil! he says the serpent represents the first race of beings that were mixed with alien dna that tried to 'save' or set free the 'adamic' race which is represented by adam and eve. so it has nothing to do with satan. you see the serpent as satan because that's what you've been told all your life and now your mind is shut and brainwashed.


Yes I belive you are right, with tsarions wording. Prehaps you are correct, I am definately prepared to concede that I have been brianwashed however as a brainwashed person its going to take a lot to unbrainwash me and right now, no matter how tsarion words it, in my braindwashed mind Tsarion is expectig me to belive the serpent came to set me free. I also believe this "race" of beings with mixed DNA are demons, they latter go on to have sex with human woman and mix there DNA even more, this is recorded in the bible also.

Its pretty simple, either the serpent is reponsible for downfall of all man kind through tempting adam and eve to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and eveil which they did eat of remeber, or he is here to rescue us.

Looking at the state of the world today and throughout history, if the serpents rescue mission to get us to eat of this tree was so good then the world wouldn't be in the mess it is in today, we would have been rescued and be living happily ever after with the serpent and all the demons that where cast out of heaven. Its not called the fall of mankind for nothing you know.

Having said that, I am open to reading more about this concept any good books you can recommend that may help me to become unbrainwashed?


Happy Trails

[bensonz]

Ok, so you dont need fact to base your faith on it... but you need fact to remove it?

I would say just have faith ;)

We all have faith, you have faith in what you believe - you have faith driving down the highway, with only a painted white stripe on it, that the other bloke wont drive into your lane and kill you.

just the mumbled thousands year old texts of old occultists fucking with humanity.

Assuming you have faith that its was old occultists fucking with humanity. (thousands of years old*)
Unless you have a document to prove it - lets see it!

Let it do what it wants and you take what you think makes sense...if you think the universe's saviour is all based on the views of one man 2000 years go who was killed by the PTB then do so! ... if you think the concept of God and reality is a little more complexed than that and life is about finding your own way of dealing with it and evolving into it... then do that...

Um thank you for your recomendation and permission to do what I am already doing..except let it do what it wants because I dont know what that means.


Exactly.. you have stated it your self... what is real? ... most peoples reality requires a big wall around it.... lizards??... are you referring to the ancient reptilian blood line that has been relevant on earth for thousands and thousands of years? (and is even brought up in the bible i might add) Can you direct me to the verse please?

But didnt you say to me earlier ". just the mumbled thousand year old texts of old occultists fucking with humanity.?

Robert Anton Wilson - “Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence.”

Who the fuck is Anton Wislon when he's at home and why the fuck should I belive anything he says or take it on board for that matter, what did he do? Feed the 5000, did he heal the sick and deaf to hear? What the fuck did Robert Anton Wilson ever do?

why are you so desperate to believe something...? ... everything is possible.

Bahum bug, nothing is possible without belief and faith for that matter.


Maybe the truth is we find the truth hard to contemplate and we all have work to do.. and should our best to do it with a smile.

I agree, very nice sentiment, I'm starting to like you more now and Im smiling...

lets not forget it has been excepted as truth for a very very long time... all our family's have been effected by it and the society we live in was built upon it... today people scratch their heads on how the fuck that happened..... by all means believe it, but we are talking about the authority it has had... the self claimed authority....

How the fuck what happened?

Im not a church goer, I was for ten years not now. Just like anywhere esle blood is thicker than water in the church, many are building there own little family empires and fleesing the flock. I detest it, and thats just scrathing the surface of the damage the "church and religion has wrought on humanity. All the different doctrines and different movements and interpretations of scripture etc etc and on and on, even the untold reprints and versions of the bible. I think Satan is running alot of these movements, thats why I choose not to assemble any more, doesnt mean Im holier though or anything. I aslo belive the Illuminati are heavily envolved in various church movenents and I know the illuminati are behind the influx and rise in poularity of Christian rock music. That said, I will not throw the baby out with the bath water. It is men who have done all these things. Not God, not Jesus and not the bible


It seems you have taken positives from it.... so maybe you don't need to stop... it just seems that if somone points out things that can be changed or imporved upon with a religion it makes people defencive rather than eager to change and to evolve...

Dude positives out of it? Its changed my life for the better got me off drugs and alcohol friends who where drug addicts got clean, but I allowed my faith in men and in the church to rule me instead of my spirit and my God, thats when I got severlly hurt. Satan is definately in the churches. (not all, but most) Why wouldnt he be, thats his enemy territory,

look at a bigger picture and just update your faith.... be open to more and not just limit your self..... everything updates its self... even magick... today chaos magicians point out how so much in the past they feel has been unnecessary within magick.... and you see more of what it is you have been inspired by with new outlooks.....

Are you into magick, are you a Chaos magician? Please dont cast any evil spells on me, Im serious, that stuff has got power, be carful.

in your case maybe you could see that maybe Jesus has allot to do with your selves.... and how you depict him... or maybe you are fine the way you are? ... and no one will force you to change... but you will probably get a bumpy ride trying to keep others in the same place...

Jesus had a bit of a bumby ride didnt he, if am his deciple I will be detested and hated by all men becuase of him? I expect a bumpy ride.


I can see you are nice person from this message, there needs to be alot more civility in these dicusions. Everyone is exretemly defensive and offensive, including me. I might add though that alot of the truths movements efforst are directed and discreediting the bible and jesus I think they need to focus more on the "christian organisations" , such as the vatican, the pentecosatal charasmatic music, most televangelists and christian rock, the illumitais finger prints and money are all over these movements.
Thanks again.

[newdecades]

Yes I belive you are right, with tsarions wording. Prehaps you are correct, I am definately prepared to concede that I have been brianwashed however as a brainwashed person its going to take a lot to unbrainwash me and right now, no matter how tsarion words it, in my braindwashed mind Tsarion is expectig me to belive the serpent came to set me free. I also believe this "race" of beings with mixed DNA are demons, they latter go on to have sex with human woman and mix there DNA even more, this is recorded in the bible also.

Its pretty simple, either the serpent is reponsible for downfall of all man kind through tempting adam and eve to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and eveil which they did eat of remeber, or he is here to rescue us.

Looking at the state of the world today and throughout history, if the serpents rescue mission to get us to eat of this tree was so good then the world wouldn't be in the mess it is in today, we would have been rescued and be living happily ever after with the serpent and all the demons that where cast out of heaven. Its not called the fall of mankind for nothing you know.

Having said that, I am open to reading more about this concept any good books you can recommend that may help me to become unbrainwashed?


Happy Trails

well, the thing is, tsarion (and i) don't believe the adam and eve story literaly happened. in other words, there never was a serpent in the garden, adam and eve, etc. the story was written symbolicly not literaly. at least that's what i believe. tsarion believes that mankind 'fell' or became 'sinful' when our dna was mixed with the alien dna.

sorry about the 'brainwashed' comment, didn't mean to come off so harsh.

[drakul]

I can see you are nice person from this message, there needs to be alot more civility in these dicusions. Everyone is exretemly defensive and offensive, including me. I might add though that alot of the truths movements efforts are directed at discrediting the bible and jesus I think they need to focus more on the "christian organisations" , such as the vatican, the pentecosatal charasmatic music, most televangelists and christian rock, the illumitais finger prints and money are all over these movements.
Thanks again.


Exactly. Let us not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Christ's teachings are good. It is the agents of influence for the Illuminati that infiltrate popular, powerful movements and turn them to their own ends. Oldest trick in the book. Then we destroy Christianity to get at the rats who simply jump ship and move on to the next power structure. As David Icke said, the same blood-sucking Roman PAGAN PRIESTS who infilitrated Christianity `and didn't even change their Dagon fish hats'.

[newdecades]

Exactly. Let us not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Christ's teachings are good. It is the agents of influence for the Illuminati that infiltrate popular, powerful movements and turn them to their own ends. Oldest trick in the book. Then we destroy Christianity to get at the rats who simply jump ship and move on to the next power structure. As David Icke said, the same blood-sucking Roman PAGAN PRIESTS who infilitrated Christianity `and didn't even change their Dagon fish hats'.

but if a researcher has reason to believe that jesus didn't exist as portrayed in the bible then why not put that info out there?

[phildee3]

...we destroy Christianity to get at the rats who simply jump ship and move on to the next power structure.



Excellent comment, drakul.
Right on.




but if a researcher has reason to believe that jesus didn't exist as portrayed in the bible then why not put that info out there?



No reason at all, as long as you give credit for the disinfo to the infiltrators, and not the originators.

[thirdwave]

not believing in Christianity is destroying it???

sounds like a weak faith to me!

if its so right and true then how can it be destroyed?

I simply don't believe in it as i do not require it..... and im not trying to kill it, as the points of value that are put across in it are not being attacked ... its the methods and the none factual events.

other people given a chance to hear other takes on events is not a way to destroy something .... as if Jesus/God wants man to trust in him then he obviously did not mind these obsticel in place or he would have taken more care to make sure Christianity would not "die" ....

obviously even Jesus/God did not expect all to believe.

[bensonz]

but if a researcher has reason to believe that jesus didn't exist as portrayed in the bible then why not put that info out there?

By all means put it out there.

[bensonz]

Exactly. Let us not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Christ's teachings are good. It is the agents of influence for the Illuminati that infiltrate popular, powerful movements and turn them to their own ends. Oldest trick in the book. Then we destroy Christianity to get at the rats who simply jump ship and move on to the next power structure. As David Icke said, the same blood-sucking Roman PAGAN PRIESTS who infilitrated Christianity `and didn't even change their Dagon fish hats'.

Couldnt agree more

[bensonz]

well, the thing is, tsarion (and i) don't believe the adam and eve story literaly happened. in other words, there never was a serpent in the garden, adam and eve, etc. the story was written symbolicly not literaly. at least that's what i believe. tsarion believes that mankind 'fell' or became 'sinful' when our dna was mixed with the alien dna.

sorry about the 'brainwashed' comment, didn't mean to come off so harsh.

Thanks for clarifying Tsarions and your stance on it.

[princess_alexandra]

Little tip here--Make sure you are not confusing Christianity with Catholicism. Catholicism is behind everything--Freemasonry, Zionism, etc.

Real Christians are AGAINST the NWO.

[phildee3]

Little tip here--Make sure you are not confusing Christianity with Catholicism. Catholicism is behind everything--Freemasonry, Zionism, etc.

Real Christians are AGAINST the NWO.



A tip for you, princess -
make sure you are not confusing Catholicism with Papism/Vaticanism.

Real Catholics are real Christians.

[thirdwave]

Little tip here--Make sure you are not confusing Christianity with Catholicism. Catholicism is behind everything--Freemasonry, Zionism, etc.

Real Christians are AGAINST the NWO.

nonsense... other Catholics will just defend their patch and to say they are all in support of the NWO is no different than what your accusing others of...

Catholics are Christians.... just a different road from it.... they are all movements created by the creation of the bible.

this is what every religion says about each other.... and even Christians within Christians... just because of the methods used that others dont use....

[bensonz]

A tip for you, princess -
make sure you are not confusing Catholicism with Papism/Vaticanism.

Real Catholics are real Christians..