Near-Death Experiences- Proved True?

[hagbard_celine]

From David's headlines: http://www.newsmonster.co.uk/paranormal-unexplained/near-death-experiences-are-real-and-we-have-the-proof-say-scientists.html

Does this prove the reality of the Near-Death Experience?:eek: It may well in the eyes of some researchers. Many consider it already proved, like Peter Fenwick (Here’s an interview with him: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iyZxi3iChiA). Others like Susan Blackmore and Chris French maintain the Skeptical stance. I suspect they will continue to do so because of the pressure of MBA. This new addition to the debate will not be the last word on the matter. The Materialistic Paradigm is so fundamental to Western society that I doubt if it could function without it! This is reason enough to keep the matter forever juggling in the air, no matter what evidence is discovered.:rolleyes:

Ross Hemsworth of Now That’s Weird has actually been to William Hill and put on a bet that proof of LAD, Life-After-Death, will be discovered. He got good odds of 500-1, if I recall. I doubt if he will be allowed to collect now, but if you put the same bet on today the odds would probably not be as high.;)

[gizmocrystal]

Oh I hope this is true!:D

Trust susan blackmore:rolleyes:

Richard Dawkins, Chris French and Susan Blackmore are the bain of my life:mad:
I know i shouldnt listen to them but when i hear them i feel really low!:(

[tejas]

If they really had looked into the phenomenom then they would realise just how proof filled it is...

[aee02]

Hagbard, thank you for the links. :)

My Papa (grandfather) had a near death experience in 1978 from complications after surgery. He was clinically dead for over 10 minutes. He could recall in his experience what the doctors and nurses did to revive him.

He had the above his body and in the tunnel sequences as well. He said at one point he asked what the darkness was in the tunnel. He was told the darkness was the darkness that surrounds the earth. It was what kept people in the darkness on the earth-things like fear, doubt, tribulations. All those things were there but not in heaven. This was what he was told. He saw family members that had passed and he said he saw the body he was going to take. He then saw small darts of light and asked what they were and was told they were prayers offerred on his behalf. He then was told he had to go back because my Granny had asked for him to live. My Papa begged to stay but had to return. He remembered going back into his body and the weight and heaviness. The experience changed him in many ways. Physically not only did he recover but his eyesight that was once near-sighted was corrected to 20/20 and remained that way until his death in 1998. Spiritually, he had been a traditional moutain preacher. The experience opened him up to be more open and tolerant to other spiritual beliefs. He relayed the scripture: John 14:2 regarding the many dwelling places in heaven and that they are all different (many rooms). He felt traditional Chrisitian held beliefs of heaven were not the only ones to be experienced.

His experience had a profound experience in my life. I was only 11 at the time but it expanded my perception of life and death. I doubt many things but I do not doubt life after death after his experience. He said death was nothing to fear that it was a release into who we are meant to be.

Here is a link I often visit. It has a lot of information. I hope it works. I apologize I'm not very good with computers. Maybe you can cut/paste into a search engine.

http://www.near-death.com/

Thanks for the thread.:D

[hagbard_celine]

Oh I hope this is true!:D

Trust susan blackmore:rolleyes:

Richard Dawkins, Chris French and Susan Blackmore are the bain of my life:mad:
I know i shouldnt listen to them but when i hear them i feel really low!:(


The thing is that they (French and Blackmore in particular) have built up a kind of virtual mystique over that very role! It's almost funny when I think about it:D.

This is what I mean by MBA (Materialist Bravery Award). Sorry, I should have explained.:o Nowadays French once said this in a TV documentary: “On the one hand you have science that says: ‘When you die that’s it, you’re dead, nothing else. It’s the end’. And on the other hand you have this belief-system that says: ‘You will survive, you will be reborn, and you will live forever.’ Now which is more appealing?” The whole debate about life-after-death, LAD, has become blighted by machismo. In the world of philosophy and science, to believe that consciousness is a mere product of electrochemical activity in the brain that is extinguished forever at death puts you on the pedestal of a “strong hero” who has the courage to accept the bleak reality of life; unlike the “weak and ignorant jellies” who need the comfort blanket of an immortality myth to keep them going!:rolleyes: The non-LAD-believers have become a kind of intellectual elite. Therefore in this situation you could argue that non-LAD belief is the most appealing position to take for the prestige it gives you. Maybe French doesn’t appreciate this because he’s enjoyed that prestige for so long. Actually I would say that it’s remotely possible that French knows full well that LAD is real but doesn’t want to admit it because he’s scared of being called a wimp!:D He is under a lot of social and political pressure to maintain his stance. He has a Gold Materialist Bravery Award and he wears it on his sleeve!:rolleyes:

So hopefully with this spin on the issue you won't feel so disheartened by those two. If you do then just listen to the Peter Fenwick interview!

[hagbard_celine]

Hagbard, thank you for the links. :)

My Papa (grandfather) had a near death experience in 1978 from complications after surgery. He was clinically dead for over 10 minutes. He could recall in his experience what the doctors and nurses did to revive him.

He had the above his body and in the tunnel sequences as well. He said at one point he asked what the darkness was in the tunnel. He was told the darkness was the darkness that surrounds the earth. It was what kept people in the darkness on the earth-things like fear, doubt, tribulations. All those things were there but not in heaven. This was what he was told. He saw family members that had passed and he said he saw the body he was going to take. He then saw small darts of light and asked what they were and was told they were prayers offerred on his behalf. He then was told he had to go back because my Granny had asked for him to live. My Papa begged to stay but had to return. He remembered going back into his body and the weight and heaviness. The experience changed him in many ways. Physically not only did he recover but his eyesight that was once near-sighted was corrected to 20/20 and remained that way until his death in 1998. Spiritually, he had been a traditional moutain preacher. The experience opened him up to be more open and tolerant to other spiritual beliefs. He relayed the scripture: John 14:2 regarding the many dwelling places in heaven and that they are all different (many rooms). He felt traditional Chrisitian held beliefs of heaven were not the only ones to be experienced.

His experience had a profound experience in my life. I was only 11 at the time but it expanded my perception of life and death. I doubt many things but I do not doubt life after death after his experience. He said death was nothing to fear that it was a release into who we are meant to be.

Here is a link I often visit. It has a lot of information. I hope it works. I apologize I'm not very good with computers. Maybe you can cut/paste into a search engine.

http://www.near-death.com/

Thanks for the thread.:D

Thanks for sharing that Aaee.:)

I'm convinced that this phenomenon is real...

Oops! I'm a wimp! I've lost my MBA!:D:cool:

[biblegirl]

Quote from link: “We now have the technology and scientific knowledge to begin exploring the ultimate question,” says Dr Sam Parnia, leader of the research team at London’s Hammersmith Hospital

What technology of theirs can explore this :confused:

[hagbard_celine]

Quote from link: “We now have the technology and scientific knowledge to begin exploring the ultimate question,” says Dr Sam Parnia, leader of the research team at London’s Hammersmith Hospital

What technology of theirs can explore this :confused:


It's because of the advances in neuroscience in recent years through things like PET scanners etc. They can actually look at a person's brain who's dying and see the electrical signals and what happens to them.

[rhydra]

Where the conscious entity, that makes the being who he or she is, goes after the point of death, the final journey, now needs to be looked into.

has anyone thought about placing sensors, imaging devices in the invisible spectrum in a room to see if anything is seen to emerge from the body? If not that might be a possible next step.

[tejas]

Has anybody read Michael Newtons book, Journey of souls?

Any Ideas of how this ties into what Icke is saying?

[creamfields usa]

Near death experiences may be created by writing dream sequences from the rockefeller or carnegie foundation.

[hagbard_celine]

Has anybody read Michael Newtons book, Journey of souls?



Yes, I read the sequel too. Very interesting books.:)

[hagbard_celine]

Where the conscious entity, that makes the being who he or she is, goes after the point of death, the final journey, now needs to be looked into.

has anyone thought about placing sensors, imaging devices in the invisible spectrum in a room to see if anything is seen to emerge from the body? If not that might be a possible next step.


Good idea. I hope the scientists doing the research have thought of that. I often look out myself if I'm attending a cardiac arrest in the resucitation room. Not seen anything strange yet. But have you heard of Dr Mitchell Gibson?;)

[tejas]

Yes, I read the sequel too. Very interesting books.:)

Would you recomend them? I find them interesting, but always wonder what these "lessons" that we have to "learn" are all about and whether or not its really just a big con...

[hagbard_celine]

Would you recomend them? I find them interesting, but always wonder what these "lessons" that we have to "learn" are all about and whether or not its really just a big con...

These books tell a very far out story of the afterlife. Some of it sounds not quite right to me. But they're well-written by a serious and professional-sounding researcher. Yes, I'd recomend them.:)

[rhydra]

Good idea. I hope the scientists doing the research have thought of that. I often look out myself if I'm attending a cardiac arrest in the resucitation room. Not seen anything strange yet. But have you heard of Dr Mitchell Gibson?;)

Reading up now, an interesting fellow. :)

[hagbard_celine]

I'd like to bump this thread because it's relevent to this new one:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45289

[chris_com283]

I can't view the article for some reason. Could you please provide an alternative link? In the mean time I'll check out the guy on YouTube you mentioned.

[hagbard_celine]

I can't view the article for some reason. Could you please provide an alternative link? In the mean time I'll check out the guy on YouTube you mentioned.

The link seems to be a bit dodgy now; maybe the site has moved it. As for Peter Fenwick, he has several interviews on Google Video. He's a very interesting chap and a sweet guy. He's as level-headed as they come and it's encouraging to see serious scientists get into this subject.:) It takes guts to do that in this materialistic paradigm.

[chris_com283]

Yeah, I already like the guy. I heard the YouTube video an was fairly impressed. He also seems quite a skeptic. Though I like how he's able to think in a more emotional way and accepts how wonderful such experiences are.


I wish he would have spent more time refuting the more mundane factors in NDEs though. I think I read somewhere that O2 depletion was discounted somehow. I also keep hearing about putting pictures in hard to see areas of hospital beds of dying people. Though it's annoying as I keep hearing about it, but there seems to have been no studies done with them.

So can you remember anything about the article? Was it presenting a new study or was it just old information? Maybe I could look for it on another website if you could give me a few details.

[hagbard_celine]

Yeah, I already like the guy. I heard the YouTube video an was fairly impressed. He also seems quite a skeptic. Though I like how he's able to think in a more emotional way and accepts how wonderful such experiences are.


I wish he would have spent more time refuting the more mundane factors in NDEs though. I think I read somewhere that O2 depletion was discounted somehow. I also keep hearing about putting pictures in hard to see areas of hospital beds of dying people. Though it's annoying as I keep hearing about it, but there seems to have been no studies done with them.

So can you remember anything about the article? Was it presenting a new study or was it just old information? Maybe I could look for it on another website if you could give me a few details.

There used to be a good article in Psychic News, but its been taken down.:(

Tha O2 dpletion thoery is based on the observations of trainee fighter pilots in high-G flight simulators. The pilots suffered from hypoxia to the brain and went into states where they got "high" and euphoric and had hallucinations. Some have tried to link these to NDE's. But in fact when falling into death, the brain is very different; it experiences not just lack of oxygen but, total shutdown several minutes before the patient actually dies. The EEG readout is totally flat. Yet, this is supposed to be when the NDE occurs. It can't occur when the patient has been rescusitated and is recoveing because it takes hours for the brain to come back online and during that period the patients thoughts are very fuzzy and confused.