Pagans/witches going undercover, Christian events?

[dhama_initiative]

I grew up in a Pentecostal Christian home and my parents had a lot of anti new age books, and the books said that pagans, witches go to Christian events like big meetings to cast spells aganst god and secretly bring the devil into them? The pentecostal minister could sense their presence and had to pray to neutralise their power...Is it bollocks...or maybe theres another side to the story, like they believe that the Christian meetings are bringing bad forces into the world and they are doing good in sneaking in to combat them?

[dmt head]

Similiar thing happened to me at an orb concert, their an ambient band, play a lot of psychedelic music and everyones usually so nice and chilled and relaxed. I was on mushrooms but my g/f who wasnt sensed similiar vibes from these two girls who stood behind us with very stern faces as if they werent enjoying themselves at all, it was freaky.

They had long dark hair and looked very like the manson twins, they were making me very uncomfortable. We also had a lot of orgonite on us and I think theyve picked up on this also. I thought afterwards maybe they were feeding off our energies or something, I know you cant go by appearances but we were convinced they were witches or something.

My friend started chatting one of them up and he said she wouldnt smile at all, and she told him she was a white witch and was into reikie and healing. They certainly didnt appear to be white witches with the attitude they seemed to emmit.

Makes sense that satanist people would go to things like christian festivals or big love in gigs like the orb to create negativity.

[zen_fox]

More Christian paranoia most likely.

[armoured_amazon]

I grew up in a Pentecostal Christian home and my parents had a lot of anti new age books, and the books said that pagans, witches go to Christian events like big meetings to cast spells aganst god and secretly bring the devil into them? The pentecostal minister could sense their presence and had to pray to neutralise their power...Is it bollocks...or maybe theres another side to the story, like they believe that the Christian meetings are bringing bad forces into the world and they are doing good in sneaking in to combat them?

It's not bollocks and yes it happens a lot.

[zero1]

I don't think any of you have a clue what a real Witch is.

[endlessvista]

Wicca is a victorian parlour game the aristocrats invented for the ladies of the manor to play while "Sir this" and "Lord that" were down the Lodge.

Wicca has nothing at all to do with any kind of Celtic or European folk tradition. It is more akin to Disney than anything else.

[armoured_amazon]

One ought not to assume what we do or do not know.

[dhama_initiative]

I don't know how to define a witch or wiccan, don't really know if that would be what these people would call themselves. I want to know why they do this though? Are they evil?

[zero1]

One ought not to assume what we do or do not know.

Perhaps, but you just supported the OP's claim that witches cast spells in Churches to disrupt the worship of the faithful. That's...eccentric. To say the least...

Have you ever seen a witch do such a thing? Do you know what "magick" is, what witches do? I'll stop presuming you don't know if you tell me...

[newdecades]

Pagan(which includes wiccans) is a pretty broad term, it can mean any one who is part of a religion or is spiritual that isn't part of an abrahamic religion(christianity, judaism, islam, etc.). Most 'pagans' are nice people that don't really care about christianity, etc. as long as it's not forced on them. If anything it's probably the other way around. Where i live christians cause a lot of problems for pagans when they have their celebrations. Christians will protest and just be very rude to the 'pagans'. I'm not saying all 'pagans' are great people though, i'm sure there's assholes just like there is in every religion.

[sparrow7]

i wonder why the christians would be giving the pagans such a difficult time, since don't christians celebrate christmas (mithraism) and easter (astarte worship)..and many christians participate in halloween as well...which from what i understand, that is a very "holy" day for the pagans.

[rhydra]

Most witches, Wiccans, pagans etc, probably don't recognise Christianity as anything else other than just another religion, so why would they bother going around doing spells which most people of those denominations don't recognise as having any effect on other people in the way suggested? Magick just doesn't work like that.

[armoured_amazon]

Perhaps, but you just supported the OP's claim that witches cast spells in Churches to disrupt the worship of the faithful. That's...eccentric. To say the least...

Have you ever seen a witch do such a thing? Do you know what "magick" is, what witches do? I'll stop presuming you don't know if you tell me...

Then you do not share my experiences. I've had self-proclaimed witches astrally project into my house without my consent and then freak out when they realised I could see them and told them where to get off. One assumes that before I joined Christ I was spiritually and non-physically inert.

Most witches, Wiccans, pagans etc, probably don't recognise Christianity as anything else other than just another religion, so why would they bother going around doing spells which most people of those denominations don't recognise as having any effect on other people in the way suggested? Magick just doesn't work like that.

Ha!!!

[duckingdafta]

If paganism was undercover do you think it would be told here?.. maybe if you view the old merlin or witches as magical figures then they might as they would have a need to sell they ways in book form, but as it is, it is nothing more than knowing which element to use...IMO anyway

[armoured_amazon]

Oh it can't possibly be true. :rolleyes:

There are several people on this very board try (and fail) regularly to spiritually attack others. Why would it not happen that some people would do it in a church? Or in the street?

[newdecades]

Oh it can't possibly be true. :rolleyes:

There are several people on this very board try (and fail) regularly to spiritually attack others. Why would it not happen that some people would do it in a church? Or in the street?

Yes, they do. christians and non-christians do that on this board. Just like in the streets. It goes both ways.

[newdecades]

i wonder why the christians would be giving the pagans such a difficult time, since don't christians celebrate christmas (mithraism) and easter (astarte worship)..and many christians participate in halloween as well...which from what i understand, that is a very "holy" day for the pagans.

Yeah, i know. most christians don't know a lot of their religion is based on 'pagan' religions or they don't want to believe it.

[dhama_initiative]

most christians don't know a lot of their religion is based on 'pagan' religions or they don't want to believe it.

I grew up in an evangelical Christian environment, and in my experience
the vast majority of them do know, they just don't mind. I knew when I was small kid.

[eternal_spirit]

I grew up in an evangelical Christian environment, and in my experience
the vast majority of them do know, they just don't mind. I knew when I was small kid.

And are you John Todd in hiding?

[haukipesukone]

More Christian paranoia most likely.

Yup.

And Christians go to other concerts to send bad vibes. Once when I was on a Marilyn Manson gig there were Christians spouting their propaganda.

Actually I felt sorry for them. Wasting their energy and thinking they want to save us, yet no-one is interested.

[armoured_amazon]

i wonder why the christians would be giving the pagans such a difficult time, since don't christians celebrate christmas (mithraism) and easter (astarte worship)..and many christians participate in halloween as well...which from what i understand, that is a very "holy" day for the pagans.

Yes, they do. christians and non-christians do that on this board. Just like in the streets. It goes both ways.

Yeah, i know. most christians don't know a lot of their religion is based on 'pagan' religions or they don't want to believe it.

Yup.

And Christians go to other concerts to send bad vibes. Once when I was on a Marilyn Manson gig there were Christians spouting their propaganda.

Actually I felt sorry for them. Wasting their energy and thinking they want to save us, yet no-one is interested.

It's not often I say this but - bunch of dickheads!

Firstly, Christians don't practice a RELIGION or a DOCTRINE, we don't celebrate pagan-inspired festivals and not everyone who claims to be in Christ actually is.

Secondly, when I go to rock concerts I'm not the freakin' shapeshifter or possessed idiot, slathering at the mouth, worshipping their idol onstage. I'm not the one unaware of the extra guests feeding off their unharnessed energy. I go to enjoy music and at the end of the day, my respect goes towards those walking in the lion's den, not those being derogatory about them. It takes a lot to hold firm in one's belief in a land of vipers.

GO TO CONCERTS TO SPREAD BAD VIBES? WTF EVER. :rolleyes:

You are all so freakin' blind, I feel the same exasperation towards you as you do towards the so-called sheeple. You're just a different flock, that's all.

[haukipesukone]

Aren't you taking it personally. At least I wasn't saying all Christians do that, but I've seen Christians with propaganda signs and handing out pamphlets at gigs. They're not there to enjoy the music.

[eclecticspirit]

...not everyone who claims to be in Christ actually is.


In the same spirit that you wish for people not to lump all Christians into one bag, I would respectfully ask that you not lump all pagans and witches into the same bag. Sure there are bad apples, as will be found in any group - however, the majority are very fine, morally upright individuals who believe in the sanctity of life in all its forms and would never dream of intentionally harming anyone or anything.
For the record too, true witches don't worship or revere Satan because they do not believe in the existence of a supreme being of evil.

Now, devil-worshipers are a complete different thing altogether....

[jojo]

oh i dunno.....


nowt queer as folk sometimes.........:rolleyes:

[newdecades]

It's not often I say this but - bunch of dickheads!

Firstly, Christians don't practice a RELIGION or a DOCTRINE, we don't celebrate pagan-inspired festivals and not everyone who claims to be in Christ actually is.

Secondly, when I go to rock concerts I'm not the freakin' shapeshifter or possessed idiot, slathering at the mouth, worshipping their idol onstage. I'm not the one unaware of the extra guests feeding off their unharnessed energy. I go to enjoy music and at the end of the day, my respect goes towards those walking in the lion's den, not those being derogatory about them. It takes a lot to hold firm in one's belief in a land of vipers.

GO TO CONCERTS TO SPREAD BAD VIBES? WTF EVER. :rolleyes:

You are all so freakin' blind, I feel the same exasperation towards you as you do towards the so-called sheeple. You're just a different flock, that's all.

whoa, i wasn't talking about you personally. There are christians that do this sort of thing. I'm not saying all christians do this, there's a lot that don't. Pagans dont want to be stereotyped as 'evil' people that put spells on christians just like you don't want to be stereotyped as the kind of christians we are talking about.

[newdecades]

I grew up in an evangelical Christian environment, and in my experience
the vast majority of them do know, they just don't mind. I knew when I was small kid.

The ones i've known throughout my life didn't really know anything about other religions besides christianity. I'm sure there are christians that know a lot of their religion is similar to pagan religions and don't mind.

[dhama_initiative]

And are you John Todd in hiding?

who??:p

[dhama_initiative]

I don't think these "disruptors" represent most wiccan, pagans, or even if would be true examples. I don't know anything about it. I was bought up to belive that such people (ie, all new age, non christian type people) were depraved and not to be trusted. I have friends now who identify themselves as such and I can't believe they are evil or would want to hurt christians. So the existence of these "disruptors" disturbs me...I would like to know their side of the story, what their intentions are.

[eternal_spirit]

who??:p

He was born a Witch his family had been witches for generations high level Illuminati. Then he becomes a Christian who de programmes and de possesses other witches. Then he becomes a witch then a Christian again sort of. There's a lot more to the story but it relates to this thread.



Because he leaves the Illuminati he says he was set up and sent to prison. One story is he was released and a black helicopter took him away and he's not been seen since. Some say he was murdered others say he's in hiding.

John Todd said

THE TOP BLOCK IS WHAT I WAS INITIATED INTO, THE COUNCIL OF 13 CALLED THE GRAND DRUID COUNCIL. They only take orders from the Rothschilds and nobody else. They're their private priesthood. The Council of 33 is directly under them, that is the 33 highest Masons in the World. The Council of 500, some of the richest people in the World--there are 500, actually, some of the richest people and conglomerates in the World--it's their real power as I'll show you in a minute.

I DON'T THINK YOU CAN SEE MUCH OF THE WRITING ON THIS, BUT THIS IS THE ORGANISATION OF WITCHCRAFT. The Golden Dawn is the 4th block up there, and it's the Rothschild's private coven. The Aquarian Arts Festival is the organization that ties all of the Occult Brotherhoods together in St. Paul, The Witches Church of America I was a member of. The Church of All Worlds is located in St. Louis. These are denominations like Northern Baptist, Southern Baptists, Independent Baptists, etc.

THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF CHURCHES, THE SATANIC BROTHERHOOD OF AMERICA, SCIENTOLOGY, UNITY, is the main platform for Witches to be speakers at towards what they consider to be Christian people. The Church of Wicca is another denomination; it's in Greenfield, North Carolina.


THE GARNARIAN BROTHERHOOD IS THE TRADITIONAL WITCHCRAFT IN ENGLAND. The Order of the Rose Cross--another word for it is Rosicrucians--they are a sacrifice order. And the Holy Order of the Garter is another traditional English Witchcraft group.




I COME FROM A FAMILY CALLED THE COLLINS. Some of them on this side of the Atlantic Ocean from England have changed their name to Todd back prior to the Civil War. That's not to say that all Collins are Todds or the family that I came from, but this family brought Witchcraft to the United States.

I WAS IN PHILADELPHIA THE OTHER NIGHT and I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IT WAS ALL ABOUT, but after I left there the newspaper decided that their greatest campaign would be against me, and many things I said in my testimony they said they checked out and weren't so. It's funny, we checked them out and they still were so!--Like many things that I'll mention tonight.

WE EVEN WENT AS FAR AS TO SAY THAT WITCHCRAFT STARTED OUTSIDE OF SALEM, MASSACHUSETTS, and EVEN NAMED THE BAY THAT THE WITCHES LANDED AT that they named after the head witch, my ancestor, Frances Collins, and the newspaper said that place didn't exist. It exists. We looked at the map and it was still there! We don't quite understand quite what they were up to, but I guess they confused enough people to disregard it. We were wondering when people were going to get around to this, but anyway, I came from the Collins Family.

LET ME QUICKLY REMIND YOU, NO WITCHES WERE EXECUTED IN SALEM. There will be a book coming out shortly on this from Chick Publications. Except for one prostitute, everybody executed in Salem were Christians, and they were tried and convicted by a jury and by a pastor who was not a pastor but a slave trader hired by the Collins. The church was built by the Collins and the jury were all members of the Collins' church. Needles to say, they weren't Christians, they were Witches. We went back there and researched it!

http://kt70.com/~jamesjpn/articles/john_todd_and_the_illuminati.htm (http://kt70.com/%7Ejamesjpn/articles/john_todd_and_the_illuminati.htm)

[marpat]

I grew up in a Pentecostal Christian home and my parents had a lot of anti new age books, and the books said that pagans, witches go to Christian events like big meetings to cast spells aganst god and secretly bring the devil into them? The pentecostal minister could sense their presence and had to pray to neutralise their power...Is it bollocks...or maybe theres another side to the story, like they believe that the Christian meetings are bringing bad forces into the world and they are doing good in sneaking in to combat them?

I have never read a singe book that states that people should do such things.

Can you list the books that state this and what background the author is writing from?

The fact is that the church stole a lot of the old festivals from the pagans and the bread and wine ritual was used by Mithraism well before christianity.

[jp13]

I keep coming across this viewpoint. I've never heard such nonsense in my life. I note there are a lot of Christians on this forum, so that makes sense eh, that the christians would know such a lot about witchcraft, most of the rubbish is, witches worship the devil. The devil is Satan. Witches worship Satan. Satan is the enemy of christ. There is a huge spiritual battle going on between witches and christianity and so on and so on.
The bible says "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live".
Then someone may say "it's ok to be a white witch as they are positive and worship the Goddess" "The black witches worship satan" (this has got to be said in a bunged up nose sort of way, as if you had a cold and were a bit dumb and slow), or like Neil in the Young one's.
I can't believe on an enlightened forum like this, I've heard such a lot of ignorant comments about "The Occult" in general, it goes round and round and everytime I read or hear it again I can't believe that it hasn't moved on from it's middle ages mentality i.e. if you don't surrender and worship jeesus then you will be dammed for eternity, and you are very possibly possessed by evil spirits, who make you worship the devil and practice witch craft, then it usually goes on to blood sacrifice, then the killing of children and drinking of blood, fuckin Hammer time or wot?
I've been up all night worshipping...the internet! I feel like Victor Meldrew in the sense that "I just can't believe it" and it is the same crap that has been said for as long as I remember.
There's lots more I want to say, but I daren't or my master will take all my power away, or I shall fall asleep.
The same goes for the occult, especially if you have read a Crowley book or 3, Crowley was evil, he was a satanist, he was a paedophile. I say how do you know that? I read it in a book. Well it must be true then, just as the reptiles are true, cos David said so.
I like a lot of what David Icke has exposed to me, it makes sense, but as they say "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" so get a lot of knowledge then and you won't be so feeble minded.
One thing I've noticed in all my years, is that a lot of people who get into occult practises etc were brought up as Roman catholics. I have nothing against anyone's religion if it works for them, and if they are what I would call proactive rather than folowing it sheepishly I have respect for them, if they are worshipping out of fear or a hedge fund mentality I feel as if they are lost even unto themselves, so "Know Thyself" was not written above the door of the temple for nothing. Crowley again, I can't remember the exact details but I'm sure there will be people on this forum who know about this, I think the 1st person to say "Do What Thou Wilt" was St Augustine, then I think Rabelais mentioned it in 'Gargantua and Pantagruel', maybe Nietzche said something in a similar vein as well, it was Crowley who added the formula "Love is the Law, Love under will,
One last bit to get of my chest, if Crowley was the great beast of the new aeon, then why was he so reviled when he was alive, he was extremely anti establishment and very clever, ach I can't be bothered. Too tired to be honest.
I am going to post this even though it may not be the wisest move I have made. I am just in one of those moods of bloody mindedness

[haukipesukone]

Kill the king when love is the law.

[marpat]

I keep coming across this viewpoint. I've never heard such nonsense in my life. I note there are a lot of Christians on this forum, so that makes sense eh, that the christians would know such a lot about witchcraft, most of the rubbish is, witches worship the devil. The devil is Satan. Witches worship Satan. Satan is the enemy of christ. There is a huge spiritual battle going on between witches and christianity and so on and so on.
The bible says "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live".
Then someone may say "it's ok to be a white witch as they are positive and worship the Goddess" "The black witches worship satan" (this has got to be said in a bunged up nose sort of way, as if you had a cold and were a bit dumb and slow), or like Neil in the Young one's.
I can't believe on an enlightened forum like this, I've heard such a lot of ignorant comments about "The Occult" in general, it goes round and round and everytime I read or hear it again I can't believe that it hasn't moved on from it's middle ages mentality i.e. if you don't surrender and worship jeesus then you will be dammed for eternity, and you are very possibly possessed by evil spirits, who make you worship the devil and practice witch craft, then it usually goes on to blood sacrifice, then the killing of children and drinking of blood, fuckin Hammer time or wot?
I've been up all night worshipping...the internet! I feel like Victor Meldrew in the sense that "I just can't believe it" and it is the same crap that has been said for as long as I remember.
There's lots more I want to say, but I daren't or my master will take all my power away, or I shall fall asleep.
The same goes for the occult, especially if you have read a Crowley book or 3, Crowley was evil, he was a satanist, he was a paedophile. I say how do you know that? I read it in a book. Well it must be true then, just as the reptiles are true, cos David said so.
I like a lot of what David Icke has exposed to me, it makes sense, but as they say "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" so get a lot of knowledge then and you won't be so feeble minded.
One thing I've noticed in all my years, is that a lot of people who get into occult practises etc were brought up as Roman catholics. I have nothing against anyone's religion if it works for them, and if they are what I would call proactive rather than folowing it sheepishly I have respect for them, if they are worshipping out of fear or a hedge fund mentality I feel as if they are lost even unto themselves, so "Know Thyself" was not written above the door of the temple for nothing. Crowley again, I can't remember the exact details but I'm sure there will be people on this forum who know about this, I think the 1st person to say "Do What Thou Wilt" was St Augustine, then I think Rabelais mentioned it in 'Gargantua and Pantagruel', maybe Nietzche said something in a similar vein as well, it was Crowley who added the formula "Love is the Law, Love under will,
One last bit to get of my chest, if Crowley was the great beast of the new aeon, then why was he so reviled when he was alive, he was extremely anti establishment and very clever, ach I can't be bothered. Too tired to be honest.
I am going to post this even though it may not be the wisest move I have made. I am just in one of those moods of bloody mindedness

Good post and to the point. There are too many people who point fingers and accuse without any background knowledge, their sources being a few heavily biased books.

[stfd]

Has it ever occur to anyone in this forum that Jehova's whitnesses , Mormons or ANY other sect arent Christians?
Does anyone know about the great Schism? if not , go read some books ,learn some history.
Stop trowing crap at Christianity just because some twisted freaks call themselfes christians ... is just pathetic.

[rhydra]

Has it ever occur to anyone in this forum that Jehova's whitnesses , Mormons or ANY other sect arent Christians?
Does anyone know about the great Schism? if not , go read some books ,learn some history.
Stop trowing crap at Christianity just because some twisted freaks call themselfes christians ... is just pathetic.

Inclined to agree after some thought. It' is probably a small section who seem to become the spokespeople due to their alarmism and hysterical sensationalism that appeals to the media so much.

[stfd]

At about the year 1050 the great East/West Schism took place. After hunderds of years of unity the western block decides to separate from the Christian Church.Named themselves Catholics and place a man in the top of their'piramid' as opposed to quite numerous High Council as the church had for the pat hundred of years... Soon after that the crusades started ALL supported with fervot by the Papacy.
So when did the remaining old school Christianity went onto crusades? When did they begin inquisitions? when , anyone please tell me ? well never
hmmm interesting

So then what i dont get is WHY people keep always flaming the Pope , Catholicism , and all the factions that broke aprt from Catholicism AFTER the great Schism in 1050 - ish.
I mean come one if youre starting junging people,situations,circumstances etc etc then you better have a solid basis power by your vast knowledge in the subject...

cheers

[stfd]

Oh and i couldnt help it but to add...
To all the people that are quoting then interpreting then transforming the interpretation into a conclusion , it IS easy to fool arround and then laugh at those who have the courage to express their opinions.

It is easy to reproduce texts /paragraphs twist them , then use them in context which in turn serve as a backup to one's beliefs or disbeliefs.

Catholics are indeed Christians, yet they decided to part ways with the others and by doing that they did cause great destabilization and a 'belief vacuum'.

Christianity is NOT determined by Catholicism, the Pope is ultimatelly only a man , just like the rest of us bound to make great mistakes and a relativelly easy target for deception.

At it's roots Christianity is only love , peace and understanding; as time passed and as an ever increasing number of groups started breaking off the schismatic Catholic block, people in general began to inevitably question the true meaning of Christianity or of being Christian. And yes the Catholic Church did kill people in the crusades and inquisitions etc etc but then again they did decide to break off at about 1050... do your research , do not believe me , i really encourage you all to do it.

Peace love and understanding , bind the three together and what you get is equivalent to belief of Christianity; go astray only a little and and you no longer have that but something twisted.

cheers

[newdecades]

Oh and i couldnt help it but to add...
To all the people that are quoting then interpreting then transforming the interpretation into a conclusion , it IS easy to fool arround and then laugh at those who have the courage to express their opinions.

It is easy to reproduce texts /paragraphs twist them , then use them in context which in turn serve as a backup to one's beliefs or disbeliefs.

Catholics are indeed Christians, yet they decided to part ways with the others and by doing that they did cause great destabilization and a 'belief vacuum'.

Christianity is NOT determined by Catholicism, the Pope is ultimatelly only a man , just like the rest of us bound to make great mistakes and a relativelly easy target for deception.

At it's roots Christianity is only love , peace and understanding; as time passed and as an ever increasing number of groups started breaking off the schismatic Catholic block, people in general began to inevitably question the true meaning of Christianity or of being Christian. And yes the Catholic Church did kill people in the crusades and inquisitions etc etc but then again they did decide to break off at about 1050... do your research , do not believe me , i really encourage you all to do it.

Peace love and understanding , bind the three together and what you get is equivalent to belief of Christianity; go astray only a little and and you no longer have that but something twisted.

cheers

I understand everything you're saying except for the part about peace, love, and understanding being the equivalent to christianity. I don't see peace, love, and understanding in a person that believes if you don't believe in jesus than you will burn in hell for eternity. unless that part was added by the church maybe? or did jesus really teach this? people seem to disagree on this. If jesus did teach this then i can't see him as someone who stands for peace, love, and understanding.

[armoured_amazon]

Has it ever occur to anyone in this forum that Jehova's whitnesses , Mormons or ANY other sect arent Christians?
Does anyone know about the great Schism? if not , go read some books ,learn some history.
Stop trowing crap at Christianity just because some twisted freaks call themselfes christians ... is just pathetic.

Oh and i couldnt help it but to add...
To all the people that are quoting then interpreting then transforming the interpretation into a conclusion , it IS easy to fool arround and then laugh at those who have the courage to express their opinions.

It is easy to reproduce texts /paragraphs twist them , then use them in context which in turn serve as a backup to one's beliefs or disbeliefs.

Catholics are indeed Christians, yet they decided to part ways with the others and by doing that they did cause great destabilization and a 'belief vacuum'.

Christianity is NOT determined by Catholicism, the Pope is ultimatelly only a man , just like the rest of us bound to make great mistakes and a relativelly easy target for deception.

At it's roots Christianity is only love , peace and understanding; as time passed and as an ever increasing number of groups started breaking off the schismatic Catholic block, people in general began to inevitably question the true meaning of Christianity or of being Christian. And yes the Catholic Church did kill people in the crusades and inquisitions etc etc but then again they did decide to break off at about 1050... do your research , do not believe me , i really encourage you all to do it.

Peace love and understanding , bind the three together and what you get is equivalent to belief of Christianity; go astray only a little and and you no longer have that but something twisted.

cheers

Welcome addition to the forum!!!!

I don't understand why Catholics don't read the Bible and see the discrepancies between what is written and what they practise (I was brought up Catholic and quit it around 12 because no one would answer my questions). But then, I Catholic bibles perhaps don't mention the info I am thinking of...

[stfd]

I understand everything you're saying except for the part about peace, love, and understanding being the equivalent to christianity. I don't see peace, love, and understanding in a person that believes if you don't believe in jesus than you will burn in hell for eternity. unless that part was added by the church maybe? or did jesus really teach this? people seem to disagree on this. If jesus did teach this then i can't see him as someone who stands for peace, love, and understanding.

Ok so here i am saying it yet again.
Ill take it step by step...
1)People ARE weak, no man is perfect, bound to make mistakes , cant avoid that.A priest IS a man therefore bou8nd to make mistakes etc etc. As a result ,we ,the peoples should NEVER expect those guys to be perfect , is ridiculous nad it will never happen.
2)to go further from part one,and on top of the already given status of a man's weakness, further 'corruption' infiltrates today and it has for 2 thousand year into the "Church" for the obvious reason(for some) to cause dissention, fragmentation, destabilization, TO WEAKEN us all, in order to make us easy targets for control,manipulation, CONQUEST.

3)You may say/ask now : " But it is the "Churh" which has deceived us for so long!! look what they have done !!! ALL THIS CRAP ! " blah blah blah
what is the " church " exactly ? a building ? an institution? an ideea ? a belief?an spiration ?
W H A T ?
Well it is all, all at the same time. But most importantly the "Church" is the foundation onto which we should build ur lives.

Jesus DID NOT preach ,or He did not instigate us onto killing others.He preached love , peace , understanding.
It was not Jesus that asked the french,english,and all western Europe to go to Crusades and kill many in order to take their wealth ! wasn't Jesus, but maybe was their own leaders and kings and maybe was also the Pope at Rome. Well those are MEN , they are NOT Jesus or God or angels. And they fucked up, yup big time...
So they are today,tell me , who is killing in Iraq, Afganistan,Pakistan,Siria,Lebanon, ETC ETC ?? who?

Well go look on the map and ull see that those who have done it in the past are doing it again today , pretty cool eh ?

[newdecades]

Ok so here i am saying it yet again.
Ill take it step by step...
1)People ARE weak, no man is perfect, bound to make mistakes , cant avoid that.A priest IS a man therefore bou8nd to make mistakes etc etc. As a result ,we ,the peoples should NEVER expect those guys to be perfect , is ridiculous nad it will never happen.
2)to go further from part one,and on top of the already given status of a man's weakness, further 'corruption' infiltrates today and it has for 2 thousand year into the "Church" for the obvious reason(for some) to cause dissention, fragmentation, destabilization, TO WEAKEN us all, in order to make us easy targets for control,manipulation, CONQUEST.

3)You may say/ask now : " But it is the "Churh" which has deceived us for so long!! look what they have done !!! ALL THIS CRAP ! " blah blah blah
what is the " church " exactly ? a building ? an institution? an ideea ? a belief?an spiration ?
W H A T ?
Well it is all, all at the same time. But most importantly the "Church" is the foundation onto which we should build ur lives.

Jesus DID NOT preach ,or He did not instigate us onto killing others.He preached love , peace , understanding.
It was not Jesus that asked the french,english,and all western Europe to go to Crusades and kill many in order to take their wealth ! wasn't Jesus, but maybe was their own leaders and kings and maybe was also the Pope at Rome. Well those are MEN , they are NOT Jesus or God or angels. And they fucked up, yup big time...
So they are today,tell me , who is killing in Iraq, Afganistan,Pakistan,Siria,Lebanon, ETC ETC ?? who?

Well go look on the map and ull see that those who have done it in the past are doing it again today , pretty cool eh ?

i think you might have misunderstood my post. so are you saying jesus never said that if you dont believe in him/god you will go to hell? that was made up by the church? I'm saying if jesus said you will burn in hell for eternity if you do not believe in me/my 'father'
than he was not a person of peace, love, and understanding.

[armoured_amazon]

i think you might have misunderstood my post. so are you saying jesus never said that if you dont believe in him/god you will go to hell? that was made up by the church? I'm saying if jesus said you will burn in hell for eternity if you do not believe in me/my 'father'
than he was not a person of peace, love, and understanding.

Seeing as you are so wise and a person of peace, love and understanding would you like to spend eternity with people whose hearts are black? People who are not sorry for what they do and will do it again to you and yours? Would you spend an eternity engulfed in negativity? Or would you prefer that your Creator prepared a place for you and yours where all darkness was overcome? When you go get your groceries at the weekend, do you bring strangers home from the supermarket and say "Hey, help yourselves to my belongings; steal my possessions..."?

:confused:

[ufo_swatter]

Christians are such an advet for the faith, nasty hate filled hearts pretending to be loving, they'd do better to stop trying to find other people to blame for what is wrong with them and concentrate on healing their warped and perverted souls.

As for evil people going to christian meetings ...lol:D, that's the kettle calling the pot black, it's an easy deflection to accuse others of the very thing you yourself are guilty of.

The church and the made up faith of xtianity is a front for evil, they have taken bits of good faiths and strung them together in a web to hide what they are and what they do. Thats why xtians have christmas and Mithrasism and Attis and the Cybele all stuck together with a pack of lies. That's why the chruch builds its temples on ley lines and changes the flow to turn the energy black, that's why the evil faiths build spires over energy points and stick symbols of the destruction of the Earth Mother on top (the sword in the dragon), that's why xtians try to make sex and normal sexuality into sins so they can get under peoples skin and disrupt their natural energies, thats why in the history of early church building there are countless stories of how strange lights played a part in the siting of churches and how voices were heard and stones moved by strange lights.

It's a ouija board faith, designed to bring evil into the world and it hides behind being good in the ultimate con trick.

[armoured_amazon]

Christians are such an advet for the faith, nasty hate filled hearts pretending to be loving, they'd do better to stop trying to find other people to blame for what is wrong with them and concentrate on healing their warped and perverted souls.

As for evil people going to christian meetings ...lol:D, that's the kettle calling the pot black, it's an easy deflection to accuse others of the very thing you yourself are guilty of.

The church and the made up faith of xtianity is a front for evil, they have taken bits of good faiths and strung them together in a web to hide what they are and what they do. Thats why xtians have christmas and Mithrasism and Attis and the Cybele all stuck together with a pack of lies. That's why the chruch builds its temples on ley lines and changes the flow to turn the energy black, that's why the evil faiths build spires over energy points and stick symbols of the destruction of the Earth Mother on top (the sword in the dragon), that's why xtians try to make sex and normal sexuality into sins so they can get under peoples skin and disrupt their natural energies, thats why in the history of early church building there are countless stories of how strange lights played a part in the siting of churches and how voices were heard and stones moved by strange lights.

It's a ouija board faith, designed to bring evil into the world and it hides behind being good in the ultimate con trick.

Tell me about my nasty, hate-filled heart, please. I'm intrigued. :)

[newdecades]

Seeing as you are so wise and a person of peace, love and understanding would you like to spend eternity with people whose hearts are black? People who are not sorry for what they do and will do it again to you and yours? Would you spend an eternity engulfed in negativity? Or would you prefer that your Creator prepared a place for you and yours where all darkness was overcome? When you go get your groceries at the weekend, do you bring strangers home from the supermarket and say "Hey, help yourselves to my belongings; steal my possessions..."?

:confused:

would you consider say buddhists or hindus people whose hearts are black? would you say all the native americans who didn't know jesus have black hearts and were negative just because they weren't christian? so my dad who isn't a christian but is a good man should burn in hell for eternity because he doesnt believe in jesus? do you realise what you are saying? this is where we disagree, you believe anyone who isn't a christian isn't sorry for what they do and have 'black hearts' while i believe you can be a person of love, peace, and understanding even if you don't believe in jesus.

[armoured_amazon]

would you consider say buddhists or hindus people whose hearts are black? would you say all the native americans who didn't know jesus have black hearts and were negative just because they weren't christian? so my dad who isn't a christian but is a good man should burn in hell for eternity because he doesnt believe in jesus? do you realise what you are saying? this is where we disagree, you believe anyone who isn't a christian isn't sorry for what they do and have 'black hearts' while i believe you can be a person of love, peace, and understanding even if you don't believe in jesus.

I asked the question. You don't know what your dad will decide in the future. You also ASSume that God won't judge the heart. A person of faith is living right; a person can serve Christ without even realising it, just as a person can proclaim to serve Christ, when in reality he is serving himself.

Everyone will get the chance to make that decision before the last judgement.

It's people like you that ACTIVELY reject and make gross assumptions that need to look to their own lives and stop ASSuming what Christians/Buddhists/Hindus etc do.

Oh, and if you could paste where I said anything about "hell for eternity" I'd be most grateful.

[newdecades]

I asked the question. You don't know what your dad will decide in the future. You also ASSume that God won't judge the heart. A person of faith is living right; a person can serve Christ without even realising it, just as a person can proclaim to serve Christ, when in reality he is serving himself.

Everyone will get the chance to make that decision before the last judgement.

It's people like you that ACTIVELY reject and make gross assumptions that need to look to their own lives and stop ASSuming what Christians/Buddhists/Hindus etc do.

Oh, and if you could paste where I said anything about "hell for eternity" I'd be most grateful.

so in other words you believe you have to turn to christ in order to go to heaven and if you don't become a christian you go to hell. you're the one that makes assumptions like people who arent christian have 'black hearts'.
when someone goes to hell aren't they there for eternity? or is it more like jail time?;)
i don't understand what i'm 'actively rejecting'.

[armoured_amazon]

so in other words you believe you have to turn to christ in order to go to heaven and if you don't become a christian you go to hell. you're the one that makes assumptions like people who arent christian have 'black hearts'.
when someone goes to hell aren't they there for eternity? or is it more like jail time?;)

'In other words' it's best to focus on your own path than to unsuccessfully guess at the route which I take. :)

p.s. Please paste in where I have written that anyone has 'black hearts'. I'm still waiting for the other pasted proof of me saying something about hell for eternity too. Putting words in people's mouths is very self-serving.

[damagedbrainn]

Three things wrong with that (aside from the obvious of there being no proof and its general cartoonish/medieval nature):

1) The source of this is Evangelical Christianity, and frankly, Evangelicals are paranoid nutcases who believe that they're being persecuted by everything from gays to witches to demons. They live to be victims, a watered-down version of martyrdom.

2) With all my experience with pagans and occultists, I have never heard of any of them actually doing any such thing; though I have heard plenty of Christians claim that they do similar things, due to me also having an extensive experience with Christianity. Hell, I was once accused of trying to spread witchcraft when I brought a Stephen King book with me to a Christian Youth meeting.

The general consensus among pagans is that Christianity is a dumb religion based on dumb fairy-tales, and quite often this is the pot calling the kettle black, but the point is that they don't believe in Christianity or perceive it to possess any real power or significance. So why would they launch spiritual warfare against something that they don't believe exists? Why would they attempt to thwart the power of Christianity when they don't believe that Christianity has any power to thwart?

This ridiculous idea of a "war" between Christianity and paganism/occultism only makes sense from the Christian perspective because it is only Christians who believe in the power of the "other" side. This "other" side, however, does not believe in or acknowledge the power of Christianity. You might believe in their god, but they don't believe in yours.

3) I cannot think of any "spells" which could be cast covertly among a congregation within a Church. Most Wiccan spells in particular involve some sort of elaborate ceremonial aspect (such as casting a circle, chanting, etc...) and various little trinkets (like amulets, sigils, herbs, and so on). If a pagan waits among a congregation, then stands up, draws their dagger, casts a circle, begins invoking the elements, chants a hymn to Pan or Isis, and so on; then I'm sure the rest of the congregation just might begin to suspect that something's amiss.

[stfd]

i think you might have misunderstood my post. so are you saying jesus never said that if you dont believe in him/god you will go to hell? that was made up by the church? I'm saying if jesus said you will burn in hell for eternity if you do not believe in me/my 'father'
than he was not a person of peace, love, and understanding.

I ma saying that what you do each day,each action you take, makes you a good man - or not. I am saying that you , i , and everyone else is free to do whatever it may come in his/her mind. I am saying that were free to choose, free to take whichever path might seem right for us.What Jesus said, and i dont care what you think Jesus said, or what the pope said(or interprets) Jesus said or what a bilion people think Jesus said, is that ultimatelly what you do and think - is what makes you good or bad.

All this hell/heaven/burning in hell blah blah blah come on act like grown up individuals... i sicerely figured that ill come on this forum and meet trully resonable/open minded people , it apears i was mistaken.
I don't mean to offend anyone and i'm sorry if i already offended anyone.
Thanks

[stfd]

Christians are such an advet for the faith, nasty hate filled hearts pretending to be loving, they'd do better to stop trying to find other people to blame for what is wrong with them and concentrate on healing their warped and perverted souls.

As for evil people going to christian meetings ...lol:D, that's the kettle calling the pot black, it's an easy deflection to accuse others of the very thing you yourself are guilty of.

The church and the made up faith of xtianity is a front for evil, they have taken bits of good faiths and strung them together in a web to hide what they are and what they do. Thats why xtians have christmas and Mithrasism and Attis and the Cybele all stuck together with a pack of lies. That's why the chruch builds its temples on ley lines and changes the flow to turn the energy black, that's why the evil faiths build spires over energy points and stick symbols of the destruction of the Earth Mother on top (the sword in the dragon), that's why xtians try to make sex and normal sexuality into sins so they can get under peoples skin and disrupt their natural energies, thats why in the history of early church building there are countless stories of how strange lights played a part in the siting of churches and how voices were heard and stones moved by strange lights.

It's a ouija board faith, designed to bring evil into the world and it hides behind being good in the ultimate con trick.


You sir have a twisted peception of Christianity, you perceive it through the prism of actions take by other men(Pope, inquisitors,crusaders,sectarians,mindless fanaticals etc) yous shouldnt do that.I was not Jesus who told those men to do the things they did or do this day. As usual man blames everything else but himself ... usual crap.

Sorry dude but unfortunatelly you dont know, You have no clue as of what Christianity is . Before you thorow crap at others THINK! get knowledgeable! research! ffs

[phildee3]

Please paste in where I have written that anyone has 'black hearts'. I'm still waiting for the other pasted proof of me saying something about hell for eternity too.



msg. 42:
"Seeing as you are so wise and a person of peace, love and understanding would you like to spend eternity with people whose hearts are black? People who are not sorry for what they do and will do it again to you and yours? Would you spend an eternity engulfed in negativity?"

[newdecades]

I ma saying that what you do each day,each action you take, makes you a good man - or not. I am saying that you , i , and everyone else is free to do whatever it may come in his/her mind. I am saying that were free to choose, free to take whichever path might seem right for us.What Jesus said, and i dont care what you think Jesus said, or what the pope said(or interprets) Jesus said or what a bilion people think Jesus said, is that ultimatelly what you do and think - is what makes you good or bad.

All this hell/heaven/burning in hell blah blah blah come on act like grown up individuals... i sicerely figured that ill come on this forum and meet trully resonable/open minded people , it apears i was mistaken.
I don't mean to offend anyone and i'm sorry if i already offended anyone.
Thanks

no offence taken. does the bible not go into hell/heaven blah blah blah stuff? or is that another misinterpretation by the church and most 'christians'?

[stfd]

no offence taken. does the bible not go into hell/heaven blah blah blah stuff? or is that another misinterpretation by the church and most 'christians'?

The Bible does go into that hell/heaven stuff. What i was refering to however,was some of the previous posts. There are tons of misinterpretations out there. Some products of lack of ability, most twisted purposely.

[armoured_amazon]

msg. 42:
"Seeing as you are so wise and a person of peace, love and understanding would you like to spend eternity with people whose hearts are black? People who are not sorry for what they do and will do it again to you and yours? Would you spend an eternity engulfed in negativity?"

Well, would you?

[phildee3]

Well, would you?



No, of course not. -

As if such a state existed!!

[stfd]

No, of course not. -

As if such a state existed!!

So basically , you think that after phisycal death it all ends? kaput,finished?
If so, it must be pretty sad existance for you.

[phildee3]

So basically , you think that after phisycal death it all ends? kaput,finished?



Absolutely not!!!

It must be a pretty sad existance for you if you think you could possibly "spend an eternity engulfed in negativity."

[stfd]

Absolutely not!!!

It must be a pretty sad existance for you if you think you could possibly "spend an eternity engulfed in negativity."

Well thats the catch.
At least one of them, you will not "spend an eternity engulfed in negativity" IF you are a good man.

[phildee3]

you will not "spend an eternity engulfed in negativity" IF you are a good man.



Nobody will.

Everyone must return home eventually.

There is no catch.

[stfd]

Nobody will.

Everyone must return home eventually.

There is no catch.

Nope, unfortunatelly not all will get to return home.

[phildee3]

Nope, unfortunatelly not all will get to return home.



The teaching of elitist, fearmongering, tyrannical controllers.

[armoured_amazon]

The teaching of elitist, fearmongering, tyrannical controllers.

You choose another path; why get your panties in a twist if it's not your home anyway? Would you expect an earthly enemy to share their home with you? And yet you call it elitist when you rebuke the invite of a supernatural host?

[stfd]

You choose another path; why get your panties in a twist if it's not your home anyway? Would you expect an earthly enemy to share their home with you? And yet you call it elitist when you rebuke the invite of a supernatural host?

nice response

[phildee3]

Would you expect an earthly enemy to share their home with you?



The almighty (our ultimate source) has no enemies.
Your only enemy is yourself, and you keep yourself from going home through unrighteousness.
As soon as you wise up and chose the right path, you're home!
God is patient.
S/he's got enough time to wait for you forever!

[armoured_amazon]

The almighty (our ultimate source) has no enemies.
Your only enemy is yourself, and you keep yourself from going home through unrighteousness.
As soon as you wise up and chose the right path, you're home!
God is patient.
S/he's got enough time to wait for you forever!

You make yourself God's enemy.

[phildee3]

You make yourself God's enemy.



Your god's, perhaps.

[armoured_amazon]

Your god's, perhaps.

Why don't you go contribute to a thread instead of playground sniping? I'm busy reading right now.

[phildee3]

Why don't you go contribute to a thread instead of playground sniping? I'm busy reading right now.



Forgive me for forcing you to write this. :rolleyes:

[phildee3]

The great news, folks, is that the all-that-is has no enemies.
S/he loves us all equally, unconditionally and without prejudice.
Nothing, and nobody, is outcast or a foreigner to the all-that-is.
The door is always open, a welcome guaranteed.
We are of the same essence as the all-that-is, and it is only our error that seperates us from eternal, divine bliss - and unity with that source.

We are all on a journey home!

Those of you who don't agree with these words will remember them one day,
no matter how long it takes, or how far you stray,
and they will help guide you home.

[jojo]

The almighty (our ultimate source) has no enemies.
Your only enemy is yourself, and you keep yourself from going home through unrighteousness.
As soon as you wise up and chose the right path, you're home!
God is patient.
S/he's got enough time to wait for you forever!


armoured_amazon said
You make yourself God's enemy.

how does what he said make him gods enemy?

what god or father would make his children get down on their knees and praise him? seriously? did your dad make you do that? And if you dont prostrate physically and spiritually, you are cast into the fire of eternal damnation. thats a pretty fucked up father figure if you ask me... so why does an all loving god ask this of his children? this is something i never understud growing up in a christian household

[jojo]

The great news, folks, is that the all-that-is has no enemies.
S/he loves us all equally, unconditionally and without prejudice.
Nothing, and nobody, is outcast or a foreigner to the all-that-is.
The door is always open, a welcome guaranteed.
We are of the same essence as the all-that-is, and it is only our error that seperates us from eternal, divine bliss - and unity with that source.

oh yes. (claps hands)

[armoured_amazon]

armoured_amazon said


how does what he said make him gods enemy?

what god or father would make his children get down on their knees and praise him? seriously? did your dad make you do that? And if you dont prostrate physically and spiritually, you are cast into the fire of eternal damnation. thats a pretty fucked up father figure if you ask me... so why does an all loving god ask this of his children? this is something i never understud growing up in a christian household

That's because you've chosen your own interpretation; I wouldn't understand that either.

[jojo]

That's because you've chosen your own interpretation; I wouldn't understand that either.

maybe...

but you did kind of condem someone in the same kind of way, saying he was making an enemy of god because he didnt think the same way that god sugests we should think?

[armoured_amazon]

maybe...

but you did kind of condem someone in the same kind of way, saying he was making an enemy of god because he didnt think the same way that god sugests we should think?

That was the way you read it. He said: The almighty (our ultimate source) has no enemies.
Your only enemy is yourself, and you keep yourself from going home through unrighteousness.
As soon as you wise up and chose the right path, you're home!
God is patient.
S/he's got enough time to wait for you forever!

And I merely replied in line with the Bible. So no, I didn't condemn anyone. Like I said, if one does not subscribe to the Bible's teachings, why get one's panties in a twist over them?

"Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God." James 4:4

Throughout the Bible, Satan is consistently characterized as God's premier enemy, a rebel against all that God stands for. In fact, the Hebrew word "satan" means "enemy." So here's another enemy of God!

1 Corinthians 15:26 "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." And another enemy!

But anyhoo, it's not a necessary debate for me, I'm afraid. People have argued for years about this and we don't have the time to waste on it any more when there are more pressing matters at hand.

[jojo]

That was the way you read it. He said: The almighty (our ultimate source) has no enemies.
Your only enemy is yourself, and you keep yourself from going home through unrighteousness.
As soon as you wise up and chose the right path, you're home!
God is patient.
S/he's got enough time to wait for you forever!

And I merely replied in line with the Bible. So no, I didn't condemn anyone. Like I said, if one does not subscribe to the Bible's teachings, why get one's panties in a twist over them?



But anyhoo, it's not a necessary debate for me, I'm afraid. People have argued for years about this and we don't have the time to waste on it any more.

hummm, ok.. so its the bible that condems him, not you.

its still the word of god though, and i dont see that what he said was that bad to be honest.

anyway...

i agree about the debate, its one that has raged for about 2 millenia.

[armoured_amazon]

hummm, ok.. so its the bible that condems him, not you.

its still the word of god though, and i dont see that what he said was that bad to be honest.

anyway...

i agree about the debate, its one that has raged for about 2 millenia.

Oh well of course you are right.

[phildee3]

"Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God." James 4:4



That's what I said when I stated, "Your only enemy is yourself, and you keep yourself from going home through unrighteousness."

James is saying the same thing. It is you who makes yourself an enemy of God through your own choice and error - not God who makes you an enemy because you made that choice.
God is unchanging, unconditional Love - for everyone, equally, no matter what they have done!
As soon as you reject the world, no matter how long it takes or how far from that choice you have strayed, you become one with the infinite source.

[stfd]

That's because you've chosen your own interpretation; I wouldn't understand that either.

i concur

[stfd]

maybe...

but you did kind of condem someone in the same kind of way, saying he was making an enemy of god because he didnt think the same way that god sugests we should think?

no he didnt condemn anyone, is again,as before your interpretation.

[armoured_amazon]

That's what I said when I stated, "Your only enemy is yourself, and you keep yourself from going home through unrighteousness."

James is saying the same thing. It is you who makes yourself an enemy of God through your own choice and error - not God who makes you an enemy because you made that choice.
God is unchanging, unconditional Love - for everyone, equally, no matter what they have done!
As soon as you reject the world, no matter how long it takes or how far from that choice you stray, you become one with the infinite source.

:rolleyes:

I'm not going to take lessons about God's Word from someone setting themself apart from God. Especially when your motivation is only to bait and split hairs. I wrote "You make yourself God's enemy," now YOU'RE writing exactly what I said and claiming it as your own and yet it's frowned upon when I say it? When I say it, according to Jojo, it's a condemnation, but when you say it it's wisdom?

Peace.

[jojo]

no he didnt condemn anyone, is again,as before your interpretation.
your answer confuses me...
whos "he" god? amazon? or phildee3?

[jojo]

:rolleyes:

I'm not going to take lessons about God's Word from someone setting themself apart from God.
Peace.

well, (forgive me phildee3 if my interpratation is wrong here) but hes not setting himself apart from god.... hes saying he IS god. ..as are you, me, and every energetic being in existance. we all ARE god/ess.

[armoured_amazon]

I'm not buying what you're selling, thanks. :)

[stfd]

your answer confuses me...
whos "he" god? amazon? or phildee3?

osama-bush-ladin

[jojo]

I'm not buying what you're selling, thanks. :)

fair play, but im not selling anything... just voicing my opinion.

[jojo]

osama-bush-ladin
lol, ok now you have really lost me.... but i like your answer.:D

[phildee3]

:rolleyes:

"You make yourself God's enemy," now YOU'RE writing exactly what I said and claiming it as your own and yet it's frowned upon when I say it?



That's because you said it in the context of God seeing you as an enemy
...and casting people into eternal damnation.

[stfd]

well, (forgive me phildee3 if my interpratation is wrong here) but hes not setting himself apart from god.... hes saying he IS god. ..as are you, me, and every energetic being in existance. we all ARE god/ess.

So you ARE God ! That's a pretty impressive feat you know!
How did you manage?
I mean , you gotta pass that allong, how did you actually do it?
Is also quite difficult to accept you are perfect, because hell ! god is perfect , so since you are go you must be also perfect.

well anyway, i could only respond to this by being sarcastic.

[phildee3]

So here's another enemy of God!
1 Corinthians 15:26 "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." And another enemy!



Obviously an enemy of mortal mankind.
Death can't be an enemy of the immortal!!



But anyhoo, it's not a necessary debate for me, I'm afraid. People have argued for years about this and we don't have the time to waste on it any more when there are more pressing matters at hand.



Another obvious lie...

[jojo]

So you ARE God ! That's a pretty impressive feat you know!
How did you manage?
I mean , you gotta pass that allong, how did you actually do it?
Is also quite difficult to accept you are perfect, because hell ! god is perfect , so since you are go you must be also perfect.

well anyway, i could only respond to this by being sarcastic.

hahahahahahaha

[armoured_amazon]

fair play, but im not selling anything... just voicing my opinion.

Ah, a double standard.

That's because you said it in the context of God seeing you as an enemy
...and casting people into eternal damnation.

No I didn't. You have decided I said it as such. Mmkay.

[stfd]

hahahahahahaha

i figured you were joking , you couldnt actually be serious about that of course...

[jojo]

im gonna duck out now guys... i love you all because you all all god.
love

ps... and so am i... love

[stfd]

im gonna duck out now guys... i love you all because you all all god.
love

ps... and so am i... love

peace

[phildee3]

No I didn't.



Yes you did.

That's what started this whole thing.
Message #55.

Anyway, I'm off to bed now.
ciao

[ufo_swatter]

You sir have a twisted peception of Christianity, you perceive it through the prism of actions take by other men(Pope, inquisitors,crusaders,sectarians,mindless fanaticals etc) yous shouldnt do that.I was not Jesus who told those men to do the things they did or do this day. As usual man blames everything else but himself ... usual crap.

Sorry dude but unfortunatelly you dont know, You have no clue as of what Christianity is . Before you thorow crap at others THINK! get knowledgeable! research! ffs


If you want to strip away the actions of men from xtianity then there is no faith, because all any xtian has is the word of men, the bible is a work of men, everything written about the myth that is christ is the word of men. There is no proof of christ ever having existed except the fabricated records of men who sought power.So your advice to not look through the prism of actions taken by men would leave no option but to completely dismiss christianity.
Of course modern christians are many things, there are the old guard who are part of the web of religious control, part of the network that alters earth energies right through to people who are well intentioned but believe in a fairy tale. What kind of a christian we are dealing with is in the detail. Someone who talks about love and peace, they might be well intentioned. But someone who says people will go to hell if they dont follow their bullshit, someone who preaches that sex is a sin, someone who attacks nature worshipping pagans and witches, that kind of a christian is either malign in nature, deluded, or part of the elite.

Pagans, Witches, Jews and all heretics have been putting up with the hate filled bile that pours from christians mouths for 2000 years, they have been tortured and burnt in the name of jesus, they have suffered genocide and every cruelty at the hands of christian monsters. Oh and you may claim that these are the acts of others, but here again on this forum we see christians doing what they always do, pouring bile and hatred on those who dont follow their lies.

If there were any real christians of worth on this forum they would jump to stop fellow christians from spreading hated, hatred that has led their faith committing the vilest acts in the past. But thats not what we hear from xtians, all we hear is the same lies, the same hatred peddled from hate filled hearts and twisted minds.

Thats why xtians are on this forum, not to have their minds opened, but to close minds, to spread lies, to keep people from the truth. Ultimately to spread hatred for natural beliefs and to stifle any ideology other than their own.

[belladonna]

I don't know how to define a witch or wiccan, don't really know if that would be what these people would call themselves. I want to know why they do this though? Are they evil?


I am sorry you feel this way about Wicca/Witches.
I am a practicing Witch and would NEVER use my 'power' to issue what you call evil on anybody or anything. As Witches we know that to do sso would only 'backfire' on us, within the threefold rule.
I would suggest you read a little more about the subject before you 'assume' taht the word Witch means evil. This is how so many innocent people were killed in the 16th/17th century.

[phildee3]

I am sorry you feel this way about Wicca/Witches.
I am a practicing Witch and would NEVER use my 'power' to issue what you call evil on anybody or anything. As Witches we know that to do sso would only 'backfire' on us, within the threefold rule.
I would suggest you read a little more about the subject before you 'assume' taht the word Witch means evil. This is how so many innocent people were killed in the 16th/17th century.



I suggest that you read postings before you reply to them.
d.i. never assumed this. He just asked a question.
Stop feeling so victimised. This is no longer the 17th century and your religion is legal.

[stfd]

If you want to strip away the actions of men from xtianity then there is no faith, because all any xtian has is the word of men, the bible is a work of men, everything written about the myth that is christ is the word of men. There is no proof of christ ever having existed except the fabricated records of men who sought power.So your advice to not look through the prism of actions taken by men would leave no option but to completely dismiss christianity.
Of course modern christians are many things, there are the old guard who are part of the web of religious control, part of the network that alters earth energies right through to people who are well intentioned but believe in a fairy tale. What kind of a christian we are dealing with is in the detail. Someone who talks about love and peace, they might be well intentioned. But someone who says people will go to hell if they dont follow their bullshit, someone who preaches that sex is a sin, someone who attacks nature worshipping pagans and witches, that kind of a christian is either malign in nature, deluded, or part of the elite.

Pagans, Witches, Jews and all heretics have been putting up with the hate filled bile that pours from christians mouths for 2000 years, they have been tortured and burnt in the name of jesus, they have suffered genocide and every cruelty at the hands of christian monsters. Oh and you may claim that these are the acts of others, but here again on this forum we see christians doing what they always do, pouring bile and hatred on those who dont follow their lies.

If there were any real christians of worth on this forum they would jump to stop fellow christians from spreading hated, hatred that has led their faith committing the vilest acts in the past. But thats not what we hear from xtians, all we hear is the same lies, the same hatred peddled from hate filled hearts and twisted minds.

Thats why xtians are on this forum, not to have their minds opened, but to close minds, to spread lies, to keep people from the truth. Ultimately to spread hatred for natural beliefs and to stifle any ideology other than their own.

Actually i got into this forum out of curiosity... is not in my intention to do any of the above mentioned ridiculous things like close minds and spread hatred.
I'd very much like to know WHERE did i actually spread hate ?!?
I mean point it out from the things i typed.
From what i read in your post is actually you who make anti-propaganda, What your saying is far from beying a simple expression of your opinion.

Cheers.

[ufo_swatter]

Actually i got into this forum out of curiosity... is not in my intention to do any of the above mentioned ridiculous things like close minds and spread hatred.
I'd very much like to know WHERE did i actually spread hate ?!?
I mean point it out from the things i typed.
From what i read in your post is actually you who make anti-propaganda, What your saying is far from beying a simple expression of your opinion.

Cheers.

I wasn't talking about you, more to you and in saying that christians come on this site to spread lies, I'm in no way meaning all people who call themselves christian, more those who spread fear and hate just as many christians have always done.
But that said, as a christian who seems to believe in love and such like, why do you not attack the views expressed on here by supposed followers of Christ. Why would you let a fellow christian encourage hatred of pagans and witches. Saying nothing when you claim to be a christian is not an option, not when christians have murdered so many due to the proliferation of this sick attitude.
As far as anti propaganda goes, yes I probably am guilty of that, but the church and christianity has caused millions of deaths in the direct attempt to destroy other faiths, they in triumph have put aside their torture chambers and burnings, but views expressed on here are the same as led to those evil acts before. Christian dickheads are doing what they have always done, spreading lies and hatred to further their own perverse sense of what religion is.
You seem like a well intentioned bloke, but you break bread in a faith that has alot of blood on its hands, you cannot be in a faith that has effectively committed as many crimes as the nazis and expect that you wont meet opposition. If you wish to follow love and peace then I have nothing but respect for you, but you would be best placed keeping away from those who want to spread hate for Pagans, Witches and Jews, because these people are nothing to do with love and they have no peace in them.

[eternal_spirit]

I
As far as anti propaganda goes, yes I probably am guilty of that, but the church and christianity has caused millions of deaths in the direct attempt to destroy other faiths, they in triumph have put aside their torture chambers and burnings, but views expressed on here are the same as led to those evil acts before. Christian dickheads are doing what they have always done, spreading lies and hatred to further their own perverse sense of what religion is.
You seem like a well intentioned bloke, but you break bread in a faith that has alot of blood on its hands, you cannot be in a faith that has effectively committed as many crimes as the nazis and expect that you wont meet opposition. If you wish to follow love and peace then I have nothing but respect for you, but you would be best placed keeping away from those who want to spread hate for Pagans, Witches and Jews, because these people are nothing to do with love and they have no peace in them.

Thing is all very well you blaming Christians lets address the balance because there is one. (religions including satanism all as bad as each other and can all go get stuffed or kill each other leave me the fuck out of it)

what about communism and Illuminati created by Jews plus karl Marx was a Satanist they murdered millions mostly Christians (the gulag death camps set up by Jewish bolsheviks ran from 1917 to 1958 Killed millions more than Christianity ever did.) Arparthied Jewish creation (south Africa)
Also more Germans died in the allied death camps after the war than Jews died during the war.

Communism killed more people than any other ism and they've managed this in the last century alone.
EDIT and who funded and created wars and revolutions the lucifer worshipping top of the pyramid Rothschilds.

[stfd]

I wasn't talking about you, more to you and in saying that christians come on this site to spread lies, I'm in no way meaning all people who call themselves christian, more those who spread fear and hate just as many christians have always done.
But that said, as a christian who seems to believe in love and such like, why do you not attack the views expressed on here by supposed followers of Christ. Why would you let a fellow christian encourage hatred of pagans and witches. Saying nothing when you claim to be a christian is not an option, not when christians have murdered so many due to the proliferation of this sick attitude.
As far as anti propaganda goes, yes I probably am guilty of that, but the church and christianity has caused millions of deaths in the direct attempt to destroy other faiths, they in triumph have put aside their torture chambers and burnings, but views expressed on here are the same as led to those evil acts before. Christian dickheads are doing what they have always done, spreading lies and hatred to further their own perverse sense of what religion is.
You seem like a well intentioned bloke, but you break bread in a faith that has alot of blood on its hands, you cannot be in a faith that has effectively committed as many crimes as the nazis and expect that you wont meet opposition. If you wish to follow love and peace then I have nothing but respect for you, but you would be best placed keeping away from those who want to spread hate for Pagans, Witches and Jews, because these people are nothing to do with love and they have no peace in them.

Well BECAUSE :
I do not identify myself with those that CALL themselves Christians and in reality they serve the opposite.
Additionally, when you say, about those men that have the blood of many on their hands, well my friend they were Christian ONLY with the name.
What is so hard to understand, we are and we always have dealt with wolves dressed like sheep...


When you say 'Christian dickheads' you trully are mistaken if you are refering to those who indeed ARE Christians. That of course because they are not dickheads for simply beying good people. But then again , you got the whole picture screwed up.

And let it be no mistake here, it has not been the 'Faith's' or 'God's' fault that PEOPLE have done the things they have done...
God did NOT ask of His followers to kill , or steal , or tempt, or delude , or manipulate or use any kind of deceptive tools !

But exactly the opposite, and is exactly the opposite that those people have done. Therefore , they CANNOT be called something which they are not.
As a result, you are directing your anger at those who DO NOT represent nor are part of Christianity; yet because they carried publicly the name , the observers (you for example) blame and are angry and reject the whole 'group' which inevitably includes those who actually ARE that which they say they are.
And , if it means anything to you, this whole misuderstanding thing was the point. To get people in general to literally hate or despise Christianity (for example) as a result of their agent's work.


hmmm Pagans , witches, jews ....
Now now ... lets be clear on this one too:
WHATEVER one chooses to do, think,feel - he is FREE to do so.
To stop or not allow one to exert those rights is equivalent to dictatorship.
The opposite,which is TOTAL freedom,is one of Christian basic characteristics.
To be offensive in act or thought is AGAINST this one very basic principle.
Now abviously nobody is perfect and never will but is not what im saying; what im saying is that judging or in any way punishing or threatening or whatever , someone else for NOT believing what you believe is AGAINST one important thing Christianity stands for...

you pull the conclusions

[ufo_swatter]

Well BECAUSE :
God did NOT ask of His followers to kill , or steal , or tempt, or delude , or manipulate or use any kind of deceptive tools !

As a result, you are directing your anger at those who DO NOT represent nor are part of Christianity; yet because they carried publicly the name , the observers (you for example) blame and are angry and reject the whole 'group' which inevitably includes those who actually ARE that which they say they are.


As far as I'm aware there is actually no written word of God, in fact there is a singular lack of any evidence of God ever having spoken to humanity except for the word of a bunch of psychopathic men who claim to have a direct connection.

As far as directing my anger at people who do not represent christianity, that would have to be a matter of opinion. The bible is after all a blood filled tome which instructs its followers to slaughter non believers, so someone who preaches hatred for witches could be said to be a christian just as much as one who goes around healing the sick. Certainly the history of christianity has been bathed in a sea of blood so its valid to judge the faith on its previous actions.

Given that christianity has been the engine of much of the worlds slaughter and certainly the source of the hatred that has underpinned mass murder and genocide, it is reasonable to ask what someone means when they say they are a christian. And when they then start to preach hatred for other faiths and try to demonize others in ways that have caused the death of millions, in that circumstance it is reasonable to attack them for what they are imo.

Now it may be argued that those christians who preach hatred are not christian but that's like me saying that I'm a Nazi, but I'm not like the other Nazis, all those other Nazis were just a bad lot. In my opinion it doesn't really wash, the crimes of christianity are too great for there to be purity and moral validity in claiming to be a christian, but thats just my opinion.

[ufo_swatter]

Thing is all very well you blaming Christians lets address the balance because there is one. (religions including satanism all as bad as each other and can all go get stuffed or kill each other leave me the fuck out of it)

what about communism and Illuminati created by Jews plus karl Marx was a Satanist they murdered millions mostly Christians (the gulag death camps set up by Jewish bolsheviks ran from 1917 to 1958 Killed millions more than Christianity ever did.) Arparthied Jewish creation (south Africa)
Also more Germans died in the allied death camps after the war than Jews died during the war.

Communism killed more people than any other ism and they've managed this in the last century alone.
EDIT and who funded and created wars and revolutions the lucifer worshipping top of the pyramid Rothschilds.
Satanism isn't really a religion, more a small number of tits who like to think they're evil.

As far as communism goes it definitely hasn't yet killed as many as christianity, certainly it has killed alot but nowhere near the numbers who have died at the hands of christianity. Millions died in Europe during the Inquisition and it was still going on in another form when Germans killed Jews, then there are the Crusades, the huge numbers who died in the Americas, the genocides of heretic faiths. Those who live outside the faith still to this day encounter christian hatred, tell a born again that you are a witch and they will most likely say you should be burned, how many born agains see the bombs that fall on Iraqi families as some form of crusade?
But it isn't a competition, even if the crimes of communists eventually outstrip those of christians, it will not change the fact that christianity is a religion and a religion that claims to promote love and peace, but a religion that is bathed in war, hatred and blood. I personally hate communism, but that doesn't mean that I have to like christianity, it is imo one of the worlds evils.

As far as the Jews go, I've no time for the faith, it's a one god bollocks, but Jews do at least keep their bollocks to themselves, if they want to follow it that's fine by me. Christianity, Islaam, Communism and others seem to have a big problem with people not following and thats where I get pissed off and that's where people seem to die in their droves. If Jews were going round saying kill christians then it would be fair to hate those Jews, but christians and a host of others seem to think its ok for them to do that self same thing.

The tales about Jews are many, as are the claims for their evils in the world, but Jews have been a target for lies and hatred for a thousand years, individual Jews have done a great deal of harm, but Soviet Jews for instance were often as not victims themselves and Stalin was the engine for the mass murders that took place in that country, not some ethnic group.

The plain fact is that the views expressed by some on this site are the same views that have been vomitted out of christian mouths for a thousand years, namely that all Jews are evil, witches and pagans spread evil, satanists and devil worshippers are everywhere doing the devils bidding. If that now extends to saying that evil Jews created communism and Jews and satanists(witches, devil worshippers and pagans) are all in some unholy alliance against the good, then nothing has changed, we are still in the middle ages and the same lies are being reworked to keep the masses away from the truth.
Christianity and the other one God faiths have made the world the way it is today, all I see on here is the snakes that they are shifting to disempower the awakening magical consciousness within real humanity, doing what they always do. The words spoken on here could have been written in the Inqusition and that's where no doubt they would like to take us once more, back to a world where they can slaughter those who disbelieve, back to a world where there is no dissent and no awareness, just their big lie keeping us in a state of spiritual death.

[stfd]

As far as I'm aware there is actually no written word of God, in fact there is a singular lack of any evidence of God ever having spoken to humanity except for the word of a bunch of psychopathic men who claim to have a direct connection.

As far as directing my anger at people who do not represent christianity, that would have to be a matter of opinion. The bible is after all a blood filled tome which instructs its followers to slaughter non believers, so someone who preaches hatred for witches could be said to be a christian just as much as one who goes around healing the sick. Certainly the history of christianity has been bathed in a sea of blood so its valid to judge the faith on its previous actions.

Given that christianity has been the engine of much of the worlds slaughter and certainly the source of the hatred that has underpinned mass murder and genocide, it is reasonable to ask what someone means when they say they are a christian. And when they then start to preach hatred for other faiths and try to demonize others in ways that have caused the death of millions, in that circumstance it is reasonable to attack them for what they are imo.

Now it may be argued that those christians who preach hatred are not christian but that's like me saying that I'm a Nazi, but I'm not like the other Nazis, all those other Nazis were just a bad lot. In my opinion it doesn't really wash, the crimes of christianity are too great for there to be purity and moral validity in claiming to be a christian, but thats just my opinion.

This is your opinion, to which you are entitled whatever that may be.
I also have an opinion, which happenes to be radically different than yours; just as you are , i also am entitled to have it.

And yes, " as far as you are aware " . Maybe you are not aware enough, i mean who knows ? What IF you were not aware enough, figured Christianity is a 'hoax' as many imply , and in truth it isnt, and you believed it to be so ?

[dhama_initiative]

Everyone will get the chance to make that decision before the last judgement.



Not according to Calvinists! They think only special people will have the chance, and everyone else is simply born to be damned. Why the chosen few are so disproportinate race/nationality, I don't know.