is there any true god/religion

[jonge]

hey guys,

im new to all of this. ive recently started doubting religion and god etc. i was a catholic and used to say prayers every night before going to sleep. but now i just doubt it all. seeing as there are so many figures like jesus throughout jistory etc.

but what are we to believe is there any true religion. the thought of there being no god/religion leaves me feeling empty. i need something, something higher to believe in.

i quite like the principles of eastern religion where they value consciousness etc.

where do i start. what is true.

help!!

Jon

[kreesurgeon]

hey guys,

im new to all of this. ive recently started doubting religion and god etc. i was a catholic and used to say prayers every night before going to sleep. but now i just doubt it all. seeing as there are so many figures like jesus throughout jistory etc.

but what are we to believe is there any true religion. the thought of there being no god/religion leaves me feeling empty. i need something, something higher to believe in.

i quite like the principles of eastern religion where they value consciousness etc.

where do i start. what is true.

help!!

Jon

The vast majority of organized religions should be avoided as they were all set up as a form of control. That doesn't mean you should stop believing in things or even people. If you want to believe in Jesus, that's fine but do a bit of research on Jesus that is not from a religious source. Personally, the "something higher to believe in" i have found to be inside and meditation can help with this. If you look inside your self then you can't be lied to.

There are two types of god in the bible.

1. The Gods; These were the beings that came from the heavens (sky) and seeded the human race.
2. God; this is the collective consciousness that we are all part of, and that is in everything. When Jesus (and David Icke) said he was the son of God he was right as we are all the son/daughter of God as we are all a small part of the collective consciousness that is God.

This is all in the bible but would not be told to you in this way through religion as its too self empowering.

[agneau]

Read Dawkins. There is/are no god or gods. Why do you need something higher to beleive in? What is it that this 'higher' being does for you? Some sort of emotional crutch, perhaps? I don't mean that cruelly, but it seems to me that religion is used to avoid taking personal responsibility for ones own life, when simply facing up to the world as it is, and enjoying what is good whilst trying to change what is bad (in yourself as well as in the world) should be more than enough for everyone. It's your life - live it.

[saaduh64]

dude try studying and REALLY trying to understand what islam says. i found all my answers from it, me? i fas born a muslim follower, i am now a muslim believer, practicing islam a lot unlike my parents for they mix religion with tradition, and as per my understanding such is the case for christianity too.
but by all means dont take my or some other dip-shit's word for it, try it yourself..

[agneau]

.. or some other dip-shit's word ..
..and as you can see islam is, of course, well known for it's tolerance of, and respect for, other peoples views....

[tracker]

if god is classed as an all creator , then yes their is a god .

its called mum and dad , the word wispered on every childs lips when they need love , comforting , warmth , food , shelter .

if religion is something we run our lives on , then yes , the all true religion is the welfair of every childs life .


:cool:

after all , it is what we all run our lives on day and night andhave been way before the doctrination of what religions are before they even came in sight .

[saaduh64]

..and as you can see islam is, of course, well known for it's tolerance of, and respect for, other peoples views....
and who said i REPRESENT Islam here???
i am just here to help you guys better understand a certain religion as best i could...
i dont say accept islam, i aint no muslim leader, i just say study islam for yourself, then discuss it rationally and with full knowledge.
dont quote other people, rather make others quote you, thats what being original means

[haukipesukone]

but what are we to believe is there any true religion. the thought of there being no god/religion leaves me feeling empty. i need something, something higher to believe in.

...

where do i start. what is true.

help!!

Jon

You start with yourself. Nothing external. God (or whatever you want to call it) is inside you. It's not an external entity, although I believe it is part of the external world as well.

You don't have to become a hollow materialist (most materialists are mistakenly labeled atheists) even if you don't follow any preordained dogma or religion. I would say just get rid of all the dogma, whether personal, religious or "scientific".

Read Dawkins.

I haven't read Dawkins, I've seen a few of his videos. He seems such a hateful man that I wouldn't recommend taking any spiritual advice from him. He seems like a decent scientist, but he's so full of biggotry and preaches intolerance.

I agree with Dawkins that following organized religion is stupid. Believing what others tell you to believe is stupid. But if people wanna do that I'm not one to judge them. I try to accept it and respect their skewed beliefs.

And as I understand it Dawkins is a fervent believer in Evolution. Another religious concept.

Basically Dawkins is a high priest for the religion of Science (different from science that is a method used for examining and explaining reality).

[agneau]

I was pointing out that the language you used was inconsistant with a tolerant and respectful belief system - or, indeed, with a tolerant and respectful demeanor.

But as an aside: who does represent islam if not one of it's own members?

[tracker]

and who said i REPRESENT Islam here???
i am just here to help you guys better understand a certain religion as best i could...
i dont say accept islam, i aint no muslim leader, i just say study islam for yourself, then discuss it rationally and with full knowledge.
dont quote other people, rather make others quote you, thats what being original means

i read the korahn , i have also read the bible , and the delia lama thingy , something on budism .

i find them all good .
at the begining they were all attempts to gather thr simple masses in a basic order of things , an age of change , togetherness etc . a way to unite people in areas together with one belief system .

im not backing up religions , as i used to be but am not now , despite the fact i do believe there is still alot that many could learn from them if tought by the right people , but as i say , i my self am no longer a religious follower .

i love all mankind , that is my god , my religion is the welfair of children , mostly at the moment , mine .

i think we create our own destiny , and our children generally have to pick up the pieces .


i cant think that any one is going to relate to this subject with out a good trolling , shame really , i was once like that my self .:cool:

[agneau]

I can understand most of what you say - even if I don't necessarily agree with it - we have to respect others opinions on such subjective matters, but this one:

And as I understand it Dawkins is a fervent believer in Evolution. Another religious concept.

I really don't understand. Evolution is not a religion - it's a science. There's no need to have faith to believe in Evolution any more than you need faith to beleive that the world is round. It can and has been empirically proven.

Dawkins in hisbook comes across a lot better - more rationally - than his tv appearances, and is worth the read.

[oddblock]

and who said i REPRESENT Islam here???
i am just here to help you guys better understand a certain religion as best i could...
i dont say accept islam, i aint no muslim leader, i just say study islam for yourself, then discuss it rationally and with full knowledge.
dont quote other people, rather make others quote you, thats what being original means

I agree, theres no harm in getting a better understanding of other religions. And there's nothing wrong with saying someone is a dipshit, I could be the most tolerent person on Earth but a dipshit is still a dipshit! :D

[saaduh64]

on another post i discussed wether there is a God or not with respect to the big bang theory, believe me if you are rational, you will uderstand the reason for the necessity of a god. as for the welfair of your children, an old saying goes, charity begins at home.
and religiously speaking, islam very much appreciates you looking after your family, but that doesnt mean you take my word for it, what you SHOULD take my word for is to read quran once again and this time REALLY try to understand what in says and what it means. man even i was flabbergasted when i recently did that...

[tejas]

hey guys,

im new to all of this. ive recently started doubting religion and god etc. i was a catholic and used to say prayers every night before going to sleep. but now i just doubt it all. seeing as there are so many figures like jesus throughout jistory etc.

but what are we to believe is there any true religion. the thought of there being no god/religion leaves me feeling empty. i need something, something higher to believe in.

i quite like the principles of eastern religion where they value consciousness etc.

where do i start. what is true.

help!!

Jon

Dont believe in RELIGION per se, look at spirituality which allows you to keep an open mind without having to be rooted in unchangeable dogma, no religion is true, they are all mental constructs,

Also Id check out some NDEs to really get a perspective of whats beyond the veil, as this is what religions point to :

http://www.mellen-thomas.com/stories.htm

[tracker]

on another post i discussed wether there is a God or not with respect to the big bang theory, believe me if you are rational, you will uderstand the reason for the necessity of a god. as for the welfair of your children, an old saying goes, charity begins at home.
and religiously speaking, islam very much appreciates you looking after your family, but that doesnt mean you take my word for it, what you SHOULD take my word for is to read quran once again and this time REALLY try to understand what in says and what it means. man even i was flabbergasted when i recently did that...

einstein said

if there is no god , then it is neccessary to create one .

the big bang theory is also now in despute , but , if the universe is a life pod , and we are the universe ( in logical terms ) looking in on it self for understanding it self , then we / parts of the universe are god , parts of the whole god , the good idea of the universe

but just because i say that , it doesnt mean i am religiouse .

:cool:

[saaduh64]

dont take my word for it but according to my experience, since this all was made by one, it all connects, take darwin's theory of evolution for instance, science has certainly found traces of human chromosomes in some species of apes but dont know the reason, well i have a hypothesis, dont know exactly where but somewhere in quran is mention of a certain group of people who were turned to apes and pigs for disobeying God's direct orders, ring any bells??? also can someone please explain why human applicant body parts are grown on Guniea Pigs???

so saying all that, i will state shortly that though science constantly keeps contradicting itself, it hasnt surely contradicted religion yet, rather it provides more grounding for it, more reason to believe in God for me here.

[haukipesukone]

I
I really don't understand. Evolution is not a religion - it's a science. There's no need to have faith to believe in Evolution any more than you need faith to beleive that the world is round. It can and has been empirically proven.

Dawkins in hisbook comes across a lot better - more rationally - than his tv appearances, and is worth the read.

There is no definite evidence of Evolution. It's a theory, but it's taken as fact. The missing link hasn't been found 'cause it doesn't exist.

Micro-evolution does exist, but on a larger scale evolution is a myth at best.

I recently watched this video on evolution http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6814048597272982882
It's by an evangelist, still I think it's very good.

What's worse, it is implied that evolution applies to everything, not just biology as the theory does. The religion of evolutionism (not sure if it's a real term) believes evolution is concept that affects everything. Like cultures for instance. According to main stream science first there were simple cavemen. Then they learned to make simple tools, then more complicated tools and so on until they invented TV and the modern age. And in the future society is going to evolve even more.

But in reality there is actual evidence of far superior civilizations that existed thousands of years ago. Especially when it comes to things like morality and ethics I think there is no evidence of a more de-evolved age than the current one.

I'd rather believe in devolution (things going from good to worse) than evolution (things going from bad to better).

[pleasuredome]

where do i start. what is true.

help!!

Jon

ayahuasca :cool:

[saaduh64]

if the universe is a life pod , and we are the universe ( in logical terms ) looking in on it self for understanding it self , then we / parts of the universe are god , parts of the whole god , the good idea of the universe

a logical arguement, but let me tell you this aint new, another sofi in the long lost past also gave the same arguements.
he said God is everywhere,
that means God is in me too
then that means i am God
you kno what happened??? he was assasinated,
dunno why im tellin ya this.

There is no definite evidence of Evolution. It's a theory, but it's taken as fact. The missing link hasn't been found 'cause it doesn't exist.

Micro-evolution does exist, but on a larger scale evolution is a myth at best.

keep lookin science keeps contradicting itself, but on the basis of past experience please note what i said, somethings are just true no matter how much science denies it, take aspirin for instance, we all know the researches on it some times claim something and on other instances claim the utter opposite, quran atleast is void of that fault.


But in reality there is actual evidence of far superior civilizations that existed thousands of years ago. Especially when it comes to things like morality and ethics I think there is no evidence of a more de-evolved age than the current one.

as per quranic teachings... i recall news about a really giant skeleton found somewhere in the recent past, which explains the thousand year lifespan of the earlier man, believe me guys you keep looking and from the most unexpected places science prooves islam as the true religion.

[hagen]

where do i start. what is true.

help!!

Jon

hi jonge!

i totally know what you mean. i was in the same situation. there is only one way to find the truth: keep praying and ask god for guidance!

[saaduh64]

yep and do try looking at islam as a searching point, it seems like a magnet, attracts you through pure logic

[haukipesukone]

Saaduh, you made your point. Your a Muslim and think others should be as well. Point taken. Let people make their own choices.

If we're trying to indoctrinate people into seeing the world the way we see it then I say read Tao Te Ching by Lao-tzu.

[eyepod]

Read Dawkins. There is/are no god or gods. Why do you need something higher to beleive in? What is it that this 'higher' being does for you? Some sort of emotional crutch, perhaps? I don't mean that cruelly, but it seems to me that religion is used to avoid taking personal responsibility for ones own life, when simply facing up to the world as it is, and enjoying what is good whilst trying to change what is bad (in yourself as well as in the world) should be more than enough for everyone. It's your life - live it.

A bit hypocritical Agneau, what with you being a mason and all. I thought you lot performed rituals to one of your masonic god's Jahbulon.

And as your most highly revered 33 degree mason Albert Pike stated:

"That which we must say to the crowd is: We worship a God, but it is the God one adores without superstition. To you, Sovereign Grand Instructors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees: The Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine."

and

"Yes, Lucifer is God"
:cool:

Is Lucifer "some sort of emotional crutch" for you masons? (using your own words)

[pleasuredome]

yep and do try looking at islam as a searching point, it seems like a magnet, attracts you through pure logic

yep, seems logical enough :rolleyes:

[agneau]

Tut tut, Eyepod - falling for your own propoganda. Masons have to profess belief in a supreme being - a great architect of the universe - not to any specific god or concept of god.

And I'm not 33rd degree, so can't comment, and I've never heard anything about Pike (nor have most of my fellows) except the nonsense that Banoyes et al spout. So marvellous influence he is then....not.

[eyepod]

Tut tut, Eyepod - falling for your own propoganda. Masons have to profess belief in a supreme being - a great architect of the universe - not to any specific god or concept of god.

And I'm not 33rd degree, so can't comment, and I've never heard anything about Pike (nor have most of my fellows) except the nonsense that Banoyes et al spout. So marvellous influence he is then....not.

LOL - my propoganda? It's your own masters stating this not me.

Maybe you should have found out what type of relegion your getting involved in and who your rituals are actually aimed at especially consdering your stance on gods / relegions.

A mason that knows nothing about Pike? Your either lieing or you've been duped.

[lostwonderer]

You dont need religion to believe in god, in the same way you don't need god to believe in religion. Depend's on what it is that you want?

[devyn]

is there any true god/religion

Yes there is a true god and religion and it's not Christianity, Islam, Judaism or any other faith you may have heard of. The true religion has no name, no titles, no holy books or temples. There is no religious service or holidays, no clergy and no need to donate money to fund it.
The true religion is the religion of unconditional love and compassion for all. There is no membership requirements and all are welcome to be apart of it.

The true god is the infinite consciousness that we all are. We are all forever connected. Always have been and always will be. Due to the limitations of this frequency we are in we've been manipulated and have forgot how perfect and beautiful we all are and have fallen into a state of slumber and amnesia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8oAGvFxevw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLxTpsIVzzo

[jonge]

hey devyn,

i like what you say. but how do i practise this apart from being loving. i mean being conscious, how do i delve deeper into it. this interests me. thats why i was saying how i like the concepts of the eastern religions where they have more emphasis on spirituality, meditation etc.

cheers,

Jon

[tjohn]

hey guys,

im new to all of this. ive recently started doubting religion and god etc. i was a catholic and used to say prayers every night before going to sleep. but now i just doubt it all. seeing as there are so many figures like jesus throughout jistory etc.

but what are we to believe is there any true religion. the thought of there being no god/religion leaves me feeling empty. i need something, something higher to believe in.

i quite like the principles of eastern religion where they value consciousness etc.

where do i start. what is true.

help!!

JonJon, you start with finding yourself - as in finding the true essence of who you really are - not what you have been told to believe of what you (or others) are.

Your second name wouldn't happen to begin with Rud would it? If so you know who I am, so give me a ring any time day or night if you like. :)

[tjohn]

Yes there is a true god and religion and it's not Christianity, Islam, Judaism or any other faith you may have heard of. The true religion has no name, no titles, no holy books or temples. There is no religious service or holidays, no clergy and no need to donate money to fund it.

The true religion is the religion of unconditional love and compassion for all. There is no membership requirements and all are welcome to be apart of it.

The true god is the infinite consciousness that we all are. We are all forever connected. Always have been and always will be. Due to the limitations of this frequency we are in we've been manipulated and have forgot how perfect and beautiful we all are and have fallen into a state of slumber and amnesia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8oAGvFxevwhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLxTpsIVzzo

God (if I may say that) those videos, especially the Bob Marley one, made my heart SMILE! :)

[jonge]

hi,

no my 2nd name isnt rude. how do i find myself?

Jon

[xpleet]

Jonge, your inner connection and faith to the Creator isn't false, no matter to what belief system it is attached (it doesn't matter) only being connected to the love of the light really matters.

But hey, maybe this resonates with you
http://canng.com/articles/separation.html

[amethyst]

Jesus Christ said I AM the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by Me"

That's what He said. Make of it what you will.

[pinkfreud]

Jesus Christ said I AM the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by Me"

i personally believe jesus (though icke says he didn't exist) could probably have been a 'realised' soul, who had discovered the power of true love, faith and goodness by looking at himself as part of a greater consciousness. that is probably what he called 'god', truth and life. i wouldnt be surprised if he was crucified for his beliefs on one true 'god'- somehow misinterpreted in the bible to brainwash us into thinking he is a bearded, angry old man who punishes people left, right and centre for their wordly sins and sits in blissful abode with angels and archangels playing the harp around him.

[newdecades]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"]Jesus Christ said I AM the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by Me"
COLOR]

Man, that sucks for the native american indians and all the people that died who never heard of jesus. they're all going to hell.;)

[twistedconcept]

Read Dawkins. There is/are no god or gods. Why do you need something higher to beleive in? What is it that this 'higher' being does for you? Some sort of emotional crutch, perhaps? I don't mean that cruelly, but it seems to me that religion is used to avoid taking personal responsibility for ones own life, when simply facing up to the world as it is, and enjoying what is good whilst trying to change what is bad (in yourself as well as in the world) should be more than enough for everyone. It's your life - live it.

Richard Dawkins? I'd want an objective and impartial view. He's an atheist fundamentalist. He has an agenda.

[lostwonderer]

Why is God mostly referred to as a 'he'?

[amethyst]

Why is God mostly referred to as a 'he'?

Because believers in God are corporately know as the "church" or " ecclesia", the "called out ones". And the "called out ones" are known as the "bride" of Christ, which is female. But the church is made up of male and female individuals of course.

When God (male) joins with His wife/bride (female), they become "one" united in unity. All who believe are a part of the bride-it's not any one particular denomination or sect but all who believe in Christ.

When you become a believer in Christ, you spiritually "join" with Him. But at the end of this age (which is very soon) not only will you be joined together with Christ spiritually, you will also be joined to Christ physically when your body is transformed into your spiritual body, which will reflect the radiance of Christ fully. Believers will take on their fully glorified, eternal bodies from that point on.

Right now, believers in Christ have a "portion" of God's presence from the Holy Spirit living inside of them.

But at the end of the age, believers will be totally transformed into their spiritual bodies, just as Christ was after He ressurrected (see chapters 20&21 of the book of John, and also the beginning of the book of Acts, chapter1& 2)

[phildee3]

Why is God mostly referred to as a 'he'?



Because "he" is generic. It includes 's'he,

like "man" (which includes woman - which is a type of man),

or "human," which includes women.

Many animals are referred to, collectively, by the male's name
with the female having her own, special name (eg. sheep/ewes).

Many languages translate "father" as "forebear" which includes mothers.

[phildee3]

Only you can answer that question, Jon, because no external source of information is dependable. You can never know, for sure, who is telling the truth and who is deceiving you.

[pleasuredome]

Jesus Christ said I AM the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by Me"

That's what He said. Make of it what you will.

dont worry, we will ;)

[amethyst]

dont worry, we will ;)

Wonderful! You want to believe in the risen Yahshua Christ! You want to go from death to life. You are on your way! :D

[kreesurgeon]

good or devil ?

[keystone]

Read Elrien's sig. Sums it up nicely. Brilliant.

[rhydra]

Find the truth within yourself. Close your eyes, relax, drift into a state of bliss, relax some more until you are only aware of your breath Imagine yourself in a cave. dark and dank.

Outside is a strange and fearful world. you don't know what it is like, so you decide to move to the entrance of the cave.

The foliage around is green and lush, you are in a clearing. You are aware of a creature waiting behind the foliage, but it has not yet shown itself.

You then wait in the clearing and wait for the creature to make itself known. You have to prove you are not aggressive, you are not a danger to this creature. The creature could be anything, a god, another human, a relative, long dead acquaintance/ancestor or even an animal, existent on this plane or elsewhere.

A word of warning.
Do not wish for a particular person/animal/being as then you will pick something/one with no power or use, a figment of your imagination. Let that creature show itself with no prompting, on it's own, in it's own time.

[lhaull]

jonge, can I ask something here.
What difference does it make if there is God or not?
Notice I did not ask, if there is A God.
Humans seem to have an idea that they can explain in language to another, their 'experience of being' on any given subject. As if the words will actually do more than paint a picture of the thing they are thinking of or trying to explain.
Words do have that ability kind of but they are fundamentally flawed in the recreating experience dept.
It seems we have come to believe that the word represents the thing in question. Is the word God or Allah just a word, a symbol to connect understanding or is it the actual occurrence?
Example. The word water, is not wet, it is neither a molecular construct called 'h20' another symbol we use to create understanding, you can not drink the word 'water.' The word is a symbol only.
The problem with language is that the symbols are not interpreted by every individual in the same way. Even if I said 'I fell in the water.' It doesn't give you the experience of falling in to a boiling bubbling steaming kettle, it only gives your mind a way to paint the picture.
From the many conversations I have had about the existence or non existence of God, and reading those who post on other forums saying their word for God, or their Symbol for God is the correct one and all others are incorrect, to me is a great self deception.
For how can a word, being merely a symbol to evoke a mental picture represent the same thing for everyone when it is spoken?
Even now my own words are falling short of creating the experience of my present thought process in a way which does not push the buttons of someone else in a way I do not desire to push them.
Do we wish to understand or is it that we wish to be on the right side, the winning team, the ones who are correct or have the most followers?
So my point is this...
I understand the seeker asking if something is the way it is or not.
But I would advise you of two things.
Firstly will anyone through their personal understanding of a symbol taught to them and the pictures it creates in their own unique minds be able to re create the experience they have in your unique mind?
Sure you will get a mental picture from how you interpret the words they use, but then it is your own interpretation. You may believe that it is the same as theirs, but how can you be sure?
Secondly using a word, a symbol to encapsulate something is fine, but it is often general when using a single word.
Like the word 'water'. Ok we have it nailed down to h20 but is very general. It can paint pictures of drinking water, a river, often times it does not even paint a picture, the mind just pauses waiting for more info to refine the search but I digress.
One factor in misunderstanding is when a word holds emotional charge. A word like God holds a huge emotional charge for those who believe that it has a meaning.
Like this...
'I hate Water' has less of a charge than 'I hate God.' Or so it is in my experience.
Why?
Because we have come to identify the symbols / words with the things we believe are real or unreal, The problem being that the word / symbol is often to general to pinpoint our own individual understanding of the thing in all of its balances and detail to anyone other than ourselves. For we are continuously tagging extra info or belief to the symbols as we experience life.

To finish this off.
I know I have spoken about some seemingly random stuff here but I am attempting to illustrate to you that no matter what anyone else believes, it is your own interpenetration which you always have.
When you decide what you believe the word God encapsulates for you, then you will have chosen if you believe in its existence or not.
Meanwhile, God will or won't continue to exist for each and every individual based upon their own mental construct.
Which probably has no sway on if there ever was or will be a XXXXXXXXX.

Love to all.



Love to all.

[phildee3]

Jesus Christ said I AM the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by Me"

That's what He said. Make of it what you will.



Thank you.
What I make of it is that this was said by the Christ (speaking through Jesus/Yashua).
He didn't say that we come to "father" (our spirit source) through his name, or through any particular religion.
He said that we do so through the truth (ie being true to oneself), and the life (chi/prana).