Similarities between Jesus and Horus??

[liltza]

Just found this :
http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/JesusHorus.html

So now im confused :-S

Zeitgeist told me the similarities were true so.. someones lieing do you know who it is?
I wish i was a fly on the wall 2000 years ago.

[cafetimes1991]

Yes, a lot of similarities between Jesus, Horus and many other fictional (?)( characters.

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

Just found this :
http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/JesusHorus.html

So now im confused :-S

Zeitgeist told me the similarities were true so.. someones lieing do you know who it is?
I wish i was a fly on the wall 2000 years ago.

Cordial Felicitations, liltza:

I would like to congratulate you for performing; Due Diligence.

Cross-Referencing is an important Tool. And with our internet search engines, we have a Library of vast proportions at hand.

Check, Re-Check, Check again. Forensic Analysis. Check Credentials of Author, Check Sources. Dig, Dig, Dig, Dig.

I embrace the Philosophy of Placing all Data on the Table and let the results 'speak for themselves'.

Keep digging, and always be cautious of what 'sways' your Heart & Mind. Prove to yourself by research and study. You owe it to yourself.

An Interesting Read: The Divine Council:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40255

The most recent understanding of the Greek word, from my off-hand recollection: Monogenes, considered to mean 'only begotten' is now considered to be: Unique; Species Unique. It's in that Link somewheres. As refering to Yahshua/Jesus

Kind Regards: Snoops

[eyepod]

You may find this useful to watch only 9 mins long. It puts in perspective for you who and why certain groups are trying promote this Horus / Jesus connection.

Archaraya S and her dodgy book who is mentioned in the text you linked was also the consultant used by PJ (not his real name) in the making of Zeitgeist. Just look at where she gets her info from and draw your own conclusions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPXc1QcmYDY

[liltza]

You may find this useful to watch only 9 mins long. It puts in perspective for you who and why certain groups are trying promote this Horus / Jesus connection.

Archaraya S and her dodgy book who is mentioned in the text you linked was also the consultant used by PJ (not his real name) in the making of Zeitgeist. Just look at where she gets her info from and draw your own conclusions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPXc1QcmYDY

ok cheers mate ill watch it later

[eyepod]

ok cheers mate ill watch it later

No problem - it's an interesting little vid.

[knightofthegrail]

Just found this :
http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/JesusHorus.html

So now im confused :-S

Zeitgeist told me the similarities were true so.. someones lieing do you know who it is?
I wish i was a fly on the wall 2000 years ago.

The Jesus/Horus link claim is "spherical, and in in the plural"....the only link between Egyptian mythology and Christian is the term "Messiah" which means "annointed" and which may have\come from "messah" which is claimed to be an egyptian term for the crocodile fat used to annoint pharoahs.

[1977]

The similarity is there, but Acharya's research is dodgy. The 'rebuttal' from kingdavid8.com (http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/JesusHorus.html) is even worse, and seems to consist solely of things he learned from typing the word "Horus" into Google. The dude wasn't even aware that Horus was a sun god!

And that Youtube is ridiculous. "Not one clear case of any alleged resurrection teaching appears in any pagan text before the late second century A.D."? Bullshit!

I believe that Jesus existed. But we absolutely must be honest with ourselves if the truth is ever going to prevail.

Much more apparent is the link between Osiris and Jesus, which I will quote from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris) out of laziness (read the whole article):

"The Egyptians of every period in which they are known to us believed that Osiris was of divine origin, that he suffered death and mutilation at the hands of the powers of evil, that after a great struggle with these powers he rose again, that he became henceforth the king of the underworld and judge of the dead, and that because he had conquered death the righteous also might conquer death...In Osiris the Christian Egyptians found the prototype of Christ, and in the pictures and statues of Isis suckling her son Horus, they perceived the prototypes of the Virgin Mary and her child."
All of these sacred rituals were climaxed by the eating of sacramental god, the eucharist by which the celebrants were transformed, in their persuasion, into replicas of their god-man (Larson 20).

In the Pistis Sophia, Jesus is addressed as Aberamenthd "Lord (lit. Bull) or Conqueror of Amenti," the Egyptian Hades. This is hardly authoritative, but shows that the connection was readily apparent to the Copts.

[newdecades]

from what i've read, a lot of the info that shows other gods being similar to jesus is not available on the internet or encyclopedias. you have to get the info from texts that aren't even in english. Apparently some of the researchers who claim there's similarities had to go to the middle east to find this info. there's a lot more similarites between egypt and christianity than just the term 'messiah'. One example is 'amen' comes from the egyptian god 'amen rah'. 'Israel' seems to come from names of the gods 'ISis', 'amen RAh', and 'EL'. there's A LOT more if you look into it.

[1977]

The importance of the Egyptian religion has been consistently downplayed by modern scholars. Some of them even go so far as to now deny the very existence of the Egyptian Mysteries, despite its thorough attestation by Greco-Roman sources as far back as Herodotus.

I will say, however, that I am extremely skeptical of the "Isis-Ra-El" thing. Horrid she-hag Blavatsky had her own peculiar ideas:


The name of Israel has its derivation from Isaral or Asar, the Sun-God, who is known as Suryal, Surya, and Sur. Isra-el means "striving with God." The "sun rising upon Jacob-Israel," is the Sun-God Isaral, fecundating matter or earth, represented by the female-Jacob.

[equitibile]

From the same author quoted earlier: (Legends Of The Gods The Egyptian Texts, edited with Translations. E. A. Wallis Budge):The history of Isis and Osiris given on pp. 248 is taken from the famous treatise of Plutarch entitled De Iside et Osiride, and forms a fitting conclusion to this volume of Legends of the Gods. It contains
all the essential facts given in Plutarch's work, and the only things
omitted are his derivations and mythological speculations, which are
really unimportant for the Egyptologist. Egyptian literature is full
of allusions to events which took place in the life of Osiris, and to
his persecution, murder, and resurrection, and numerous texts of all
periods describe the love and devotion of his sister and wife Isis, and
the filial piety of Horus. Nowhere, however, have we in Egyptian a
connected account of the causes which led to the murder by Set of
Osiris, or of the subsequent events which resulted in his becoming the
king of heaven and judge of the dead. However carefully we piece
together the fragments of information which we can extract from native
Egyptian literature, there still remains a series of gaps which can
only be filled by guesswork. Plutarch, as a learned man and a student
of comparative religion and mythology was most anxious to understand
the history of Isis and Osiris, which Greek and Roman scholars talked
about freely, and which none of them comprehended, and he made
enquiries of priests and others, and examined critically such
information as he could obtain, believing and hoping that he would
penetrate the mystery in which these gods were wrapped. As a result of
his labours he collected a number of facts about the form of the Legend
of Isis and Osiris as it was known to the learned men of his day, but
there is no evidence that he had the slightest knowledge of the details
of the original African Legend of these gods as it was known to the
Egyptians, say, under the VIth Dynasty. Moreover, he never realized
that the characteristics and attributes of both Isis and Osiris changed
several times during the long history of Egypt, and that a thousand
years before he lived the Egyptians themselves had forgotten what the
original form of the legend was.

More: The story of Osiris is nowhere found in a connected form in Egyptian literature, but everywhere, and in texts of all periods, the life, sufferings, death, and resurrection of Osiris are accepted as facts universally admitted."
- E. A. Wallis Budge, The Book of the Opening of the Mouth (1972), p. ix

The author himself admits there is no continuous Osiris myth. He merely looks at the myriad of stories associated with Osiris and deduces a few general, repeating themes. To posit that, because these ambiguous themes are similar to the themes employed in the Jesus Christ story, the one is merely a retelling of the other is ridiculous. It is tantamount to stating that because all men are born, live their lives, and die all men are the same person. Far be it from me to stop anyone from making this argument, but be forewarned that any middle schooler knows ancient Egyptians believed in an afterlife. If you go around saying that the ancient Egyptian custom of burying people in the model of Osiris in the belief that they would be resurrected like him is the same as believing in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ so you may be saved, you will be a laughing stock.

As an aside, it is at the very least curious that this author takes so much from Plutarch, who is known to have been an initiate of the mysteries. More interesting still is that, according to the wiki article on him, he was a member of a spiritualist club called the ghost club and that many occultists were dedicated to his work. Something to ponder about.

[equitibile]

Ah, another interesting link http://www.rostau.org.uk/aegyptian-l/faq/week108_budge.txt

Seems there is some controversy around this Budge fellow.

[1977]

The author himself admits there is no continuous Osiris myth. He merely looks at the myriad of stories associated with Osiris and deduces a few general, repeating themes. To posit that, because these ambiguous themes are similar to the themes employed in the Jesus Christ story, the one is merely a retelling of the other is ridiculous. It is tantamount to stating that because all men are born, live their lives, and die all men are the same person. Far be it from me to stop anyone from making this argument, but be forewarned that any middle schooler knows ancient Egyptians believed in an afterlife. If you go around saying that the ancient Egyptian custom of burying people in the model of Osiris in the belief that they would be resurrected like him is the same as believing in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ so you may be saved, you will be a laughing stock.No-one here has posited that one is merely a retelling of the other, but drawing comparisons between the beliefs of the two is hardly the sort of thing that would ever make one a "laughing stock".

As an aside, it is at the very least curious that this author takes so much from Plutarch, who is known to have been an initiate of the mysteries. More interesting still is that, according to the wiki article on him, he was a member of a spiritualist club called the ghost club and that many occultists were dedicated to his work. Something to ponder about.Plutarch continues to be the only source for many details of the Osiris myth, and his work has been accepted by Egyptologists, with a few caveats. The problem is that the Egyptian religion seemed to regard it as forbidden to explicitly mention the death of Osiris, so that the event is only alluded to in the hieroglyphic texts. Being an "initiate of the mysteries" is, well, irrelevant.

The problem with Budge's work is that he wished to portray the Egyptians as pious monotheists, and considerably downplayed the obvious aspects of phallicism and polytheism in his writings. His book on Egyptian Magic is noticeably derisive towards the subject matter, and he regarded it as the primitive vestiges of prehistoric superstition.

Now, as to being a spiritualist, this is what the Wiki says: "Budge was interested in the paranormal and believed in the reality of spirits and hauntings. Budge had a number of friends in the Ghost Club, a group in London committed to the study of alternative religions and the spirit world, and told his many friends stories of hauntings and other uncanny experiences."

In other words, the man liked to tell ghost stories. This should hardly count as a wholesale indictment of his character. He wrote for the general public, and can certainly not be held responsible for any groups or individuals who happened to appropriate his work.

Now, it is true that his studies are a century out of date, and further research and findings have been made. He should not be, and has never been, the final authority on this subject.

[madthumbs]

The Mess of Acharya S (http://opposingdigits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=30218#30218)

- Includes Jordan Maxwell taking some credit for the misinformation.

Christianity is largely supported by controlled opposition that's set up to fail.

[zero1]

I will say, however, that I am extremely skeptical of the "Isis-Ra-El" thing.

Why?

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

Why?



Hello; zero1:

The name Yisrayl/Israyl; first appears in Genesis/Bereshith; in 32:28, Yaaqob wrestles with YHWH, YHWH renames him. From Yaaqob=Supplanter to>

Yisrayl=Struggler by YHWHs side(niv)-Ruler as YHWH would Rule.(strongs)

Hebrew is a Semetic Language, derived from existing Tribes in area. The [yl] means strength, aroot word for el-strength-El-god-HaElohim-YHWH?


The Hebrews had been instructed by YHWH to ignore the gods they left behind in Egypt, to not even let the names of these 'hinder' gods names be on their lips, not to even utter their names.

The Hebrew Tribes having Sojourned in the land of Egypt for 400 years were quite familiar with the Egyptian Cosmology of gods. They had 'witnessed' YHWH trounce ALL the gods of Egypt. isis, ra, horus, etc ....

So at that big meeting in the desert YHWH informed them with a Plan, they would no longer provide any other god with any type of homage or service. They were not to even utter their names.

According to the information contained in the Divine Council PDFs, YHWH is a 'Species Unique' and has the Power to sentance ALL othe gods to death, or life.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40255

[bgrade_actor]

So how do you guys propose that Horus fulfilled all of the old testament prophecies then?

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

So how do you guys propose that Horus fulfilled all of the old testament prophecies then?

Cordial Felicitations; Bgradeactor:

Good question. They will probably have to convene a Commitee to work that one out. lol

Kind Regards: Snoops

[zero1]

Hello; zero1:

The name Yisrayl/Israyl; first appears in Genesis/Bereshith; in 32:28, Yaaqob wrestles with YHWH, YHWH renames him. From Yaaqob=Supplanter to>

Yisrayl=Struggler by YHWHs side(niv)-Ruler as YHWH would Rule.(strongs)

Hebrew is a Semetic Language, derived from existing Tribes in area. The [yl] means strength, aroot word for el-strength-El-god-HaElohim-YHWH?


The Hebrews had been instructed by YHWH to ignore the gods they left behind in Egypt, to not even let the names of these 'hinder' gods names be on their lips, not to even utter their names.

The Hebrew Tribes having Sojourned in the land of Egypt for 400 years were quite familiar with the Egyptian Cosmology of gods. They had 'witnessed' YHWH trounce ALL the gods of Egypt. isis, ra, horus, etc ....

So at that big meeting in the desert YHWH informed them with a Plan, they would no longer provide any other god with any type of homage or service. They were not to even utter their names.

According to the information contained in the Divine Council PDFs, YHWH is a 'Species Unique' and has the Power to sentance ALL othe gods to death, or life.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40255

I wasn't asking you - I was asking 1977. I would expect your "Divine Council" would have some soppy scholastic answer for the term "Israel" but that doesn't make it any less bunk.

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

WELL EXCUUUUUUUSE ME!

http://starcoachusa.com/images/jackie_gleason_honeymooner.jpg

[zero1]

WELL EXCUUUUUUUSE ME!

http://starcoachusa.com/images/jackie_gleason_honeymooner.jpg

:D:p Made me smile, at least...

[1977]

I wasn't asking you - I was asking 1977. I would expect your "Divine Council" would have some soppy scholastic answer for the term "Israel" but that doesn't make it any less bunk.Well, what's the evidence for it? The Egyptian connection to Judaism is certainly undeniable; the Bible even says that Moses was "learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians."

[thirdwave]

Just found this :
http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/JesusHorus.html

So now im confused :-S

Zeitgeist told me the similarities were true so.. someones lieing do you know who it is?
I wish i was a fly on the wall 2000 years ago.

Im sad to say that nowadays this is not really the place to ask as it is infested with christians who are increasingly getting more and more desperate to defend their faith... as has been expected.

The truth of the matter is it is obvious that most official info has been put in place by the very institutions that put the religions into place, so for people to use those facts and figures to prove a point is nothing more than simply being ignorant.

the sources that have inspired DVDs such as Zeitgeist and so on are obviously not regarded as official sources and were never given the publicity they should have been given.. however some people have researched their works and have come to alternative scenarios than that's the the christian faith.

What you see here alot is most christians detaching them selves from the christian institutions and claiming it all to be corrupt, but failing to revile when it was not corrupt as they, you or I have never been presented with a bible or book that we have not been permitted to see by the crooked institutions they claim to be corrupt them selves.

trying to prove this to a christian is like trying to prove 9/11 was an inside job to a patriotic fear infested US citizen .

My advice is, keep an open mind and check out as much alternative info as you can regardless of what name has been branded on them by christians on youtube... and work out what makes more sense to you...

for me, I am %100 convinced that the bible and the story of Jesus is made up of large chucks of the horus story... as well as others.... and it also contains parts of others peoples life story's and the only real relevance in it is many symbolic reference's to the Luciferian (aton) sun worship that many secret societies have worshipped where they are content to see people worship their very own god (through Christianity) only within complete ignorance of doing so... offering their faith and self worth to this god...

the pagan symbology is there for all to see the bight day light... and the fact that there is no real evidence that the man Jesus that the bible refers to even existed, not to mention illogical time frames and the same blank time frames as Horus us... also note both Jesus and Horus where depicted as the morning star... as was Lucifer.

its also worth noting that the word virgin in in ancient times did not always mean that you had not had sex... but it meant that a women was to mother a child by her self.

[eternal_spirit]

Here we see the connections to Freemasonic rituals and other Religious and mystery schools (rebirth - Illumination)

Religion comes from the Latin "Ligamen a tie, a string or cord. It means to be re-bound, to re-tied. In the ancient Egyptian Initiation ceremonies, a tie was placed around the neck to symbolise the noose, the penalty being obvious for disclosure.

A red cord was also tied around "the lower head" or genitals. This tied one to Amon. The novice was then a child ( Moses, Mesis ) of Amon/Amen-Ra. The popular title being Ra-Moses, Ra's child. "Amen, our father which art in heaven" begins a popular praise to the deity, painted on numerous tomb walls.


At bursiris every year, the Pharaoh went through an elaborate ritual emulating the death and resurrection of Osiris or Son of the Sun. Priests lowered him to the ground representing death. They then lifted him to a 45 degree angle which they called "the lame attempting to walk" then to a standing position of 90 degree. In this pose he was addressed as Dad.

A blindfold was removed allowing him to "see". This death and re-birth of Osiris represented the death and resurrection of the sun at mid-winter. At least, that is what the masses were told.

The top priests were named after the female deity. They, in every country wore women's clothing. In Egypt(E=goal, JiiPithi,as it sounds which is Jupiter) they were the priests of I(sis) This however is the Greek rendition. The Egyptian term was Iris. They recruited from the "brighter boys" of the aristocracy. Today we use scholarships. As the sun's arc is measured in degress, the managers (sons) of Today earn degress, the ceremony ( Ceres, another term for the goddess Isis, and Mon,man) requires the wearing of a woman's gown. The students are called pupils

Think of an eye; Eye Ball-I Baal, Iris-pupil.

The hexagram (hex in one sense means "Curse") Sol Om On's seal - Star of David symbol - used by the Masons and on the flag of Israel - Jewish identity - Isis (IS)is the Ancient Egyptian name for a sect that worshiped the MOON (symbolism). Did you know that the other two Ancient Egyptian sects were called Ra (sun) and El (saturn) and all together = ISRAEL.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=597618&postcount=108

Indeed and SOL OM ON's (Three laguages for the sun) temple another BIG clue.

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_spirit http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=474736#post474736)
http://www.rondart.com/The%20Essential%20Talmud.jpg

Look carefully at the flowery pattern, if you don't see it look again.

Looks like it says Satan IMO.

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/5024/003001c8df8bcb35d49053ajn8.jpg

Zionism is the NWO.

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5130/pyramidmasonxf7.gif EDIT follow the letters at the points of the hexagram aka Star of David aka Seal of Solomon it spells Mason!

Jackie: I was trying to do a search I found something interesting. The first five books of the Old Testament being the Torah, I wound up in this Jewish website and I think it's called Judaism 101 or something of frequently asked questions, what does tora mean? They said, listen folks, it can have several meanings.



The Torah can mean the first five books of the Old Testament, which they call the Book of Moses, or it can be all of that writing in what Christians call the Old Testament, or it can be the first five books of that Old Testament which is their Torah and all of the subsequent writings that make up the entire Talmud.



So for Christians who want to put so much emphasis and attention on that Old Testament, Alan, like it's the world of God.



You know what I mean? I thought that was quite fascinating and I'll tell you what else they said. They said for the Jews there is no Old Testament, yet they say the reason they're taking all that land in Israel is because it is their biblical mandate. They didn't say Talmudic mandate. They said it’s their biblical mandate. So they claim the Bible when it serves them, don't they?

Alan: That's what most legalists do. Anything to do with legalism or law is just a matter of picking and choosing what parts you want to use for that particular purpose. That's what law is all about.



When you look at the supposed history of how the Old Testament was written, and you've got to remember 2,000 years ago, the Old Testament that they were given was written in Greek. It wasn't in Hebrew. It was written in Greece by a bunch of priests who supposedly were in Egypt around 200, 300 BC. This is the story, 72 priests who happened to be in Egypt wrote it in Greek for the Jews who spoke Aramaic.

Jackie: They were in Egypt translating it into Greek for the Jews who spoke Aramaic.

Alan: That's correct. That makes a lot of sense, right? It was a compilation of esoteric stories really, not the exoteric ones, of the mystery religion that had been in existence for a long, long time before that.


I mean Moses is just another form of Hermes, basically. Hermes is the truly enlightened figure and so the illumined one can go up the mountain, while the rest of the people, who are the mob, are in the dark, they must stay below.


Going up the mountain is symbolic of the illumined one. Moses is just the Egyptian word for child and it's just dropped the Ra, the child of Ra, Ra-moses.

Jackie: Son of?

Alan: Yes, child of Ra. It's all esoteric high masonry basically.

Jackie: Let me hear your take on the "Ten Commandments?" He went up the mountain and he became enlightened and he came down with the Ten Commandments on these two huge, what do you call them, stones? Then he got ticked off and broke them and had to go get another set.

Alan: Well, he broke the law.

Jackie: He broke the law.

Alan: He was the first guy to break the law.

Jackie: So that story is an esoteric?

Alan: Yes, it's all esoteric.

Jackie: Do you think Moses really existed?

Alan: No. As I say, it's the same in all the ancient mystic religions. There's always a Moses or a Hermes type figure and Hermes is always related to the god Soth or Thoth in Egypt who was also the one who gave law in writing to the people. Moses is a combination of Hermes and Soth.

Jackie: Did you say that the esoteric message in there, does that have anything to do with the Kabbalah, the ancient mysteries?

Alan: Even though the Kabbalah has been added to, especially around the 1500's onwards, it definitely – even Wallace Budge who translated lots of the old Egyptian for the London Museum, he claims that he found much of the Kabbalah already existed in ancient Egypt.


It's not a modern thing at all, although it has been added to since the 1500's and it's the same with the Talmud. The Talmud was a Babylonian religion which was taken over, or at least a bunch of people came out of Babylon with an updated religion that was based on the Babylon Talmud. That's when Judaism began.

Jackie: Did the Pharisees not exist yet?

Alan: No. Supposedly, according to the mythology, they were taken into captivity from Israel into Babylon where they were there for a couple of hundred years. When they went in they had Levi, the priests, and a set of rituals and so on, basically the Books of Moses or at least the oral tradition of Moses. When they came out they had Talmud, which is now the main book, and they had the Pharisaical priesthood and the Sadducees, which again, as in all these mystic religions, has double meanings.



The Sadducees who were the supposed nobility of the supposed Jews and I've no doubt they were the nobility of Babylon that came out there. Their symbol was the serpent and you'll find too in the Jewish traditions of Moses the brazen serpent that he had made to go in front of him with the wings and a serpent on the staff was put into a sacred grove and it was worshiped there basically for a couple of hundred years.



The Sadducees, again, have this serpent symbol and remember, too, it's really a Latin term. We're reading a Latinized name here, Sadducees, and if you take the S and put it back into a C, you have the Caduceus.

Jackie: Caduceus, and that was their staff right?

Alan: The serpent again, so it's all games and tricks you see and the blind cannot see. That's the whole idea. Those who have no eyes don't see what's right in front of them. They play these games with us all the time.



Pharisees is also a play on pharaoh, you see, and Pharis- and Paris is actually the eagle, so that's the royal eagle, basically.

Jackie: The eagle for whom, the royalty?

Alan: Yes, the ancient mystery religion which ran Babylon, Egypt and all the old worlds.

Jackie: Would you pronounce that and you said the Sadducees and then you put a C in it and how did you pronounce that?

Alan: Caduceus. That's the same symbol you'll see on every ambulance with the serpent round the staff.

Jackie: It's the symbol of the doctors? American Medical Association et cetera?

Alan: Yes and if you take the two – generally it's two intertwined serpents, you'll have the figure 8, which is "as above, so below," the two circles, and it's also the double helix of the gene.



All of this stuff is highly symbolic and we take it for granted simply because we grew up and seen them everywhere. We never question their origins or what they really mean. If you look at the Greek occupation prior to the Roman occupation of that whole area—we can call it the supposed Holy Land—on the Greek maps there is no Israel.

Jackie: Oh, I was going to ask you that when you mentioned that they were taken out of Israel into Babylon. Israel didn’t exist at that time, did it?

Alan: There's no mention in the Persian, Egyptian or anybody else's histories of Israel. On the Greek's maps they had an entire area that was called Edomia for the Edomians. All we can really say is that the whole idea of an Israel began much later with a bunch of people coming out of Babylon.

Jackie: You were explaining the other night, Isis, Ra and El. IS-RA-EL and so if that's the trinity, would then that be a goddess trinity, being Isis, being the mother goddess?

Alan: It's more than just that. It's the sun, the moon together as the hermaphrodite because even in Judaic religions they have a whole tradition to do with god that is both male and female and again it pre-existed Judaism.



Plato also talks about it, that when the god turned one way he was woman and when he turned the other he was man, so he's also hinting at the same esoteric deity that the aristocracy of ancient Greece worshiped. It's the same ancient doctrine.

Jackie: And they believe that the first man that was made was actually a hermaphrodite?

Alan: If you were to take it literally – if it was the Creator that made this particular man for the garden, the Eden story--

Jackie: Male and female created he them?

Alan: He said in the perfect image of himself he made man, you see. Now if he was male and female, then that's what they're hinting at, that Adam himself would be both, and then they took the female from Adam and he separated the two.

Jackie: Do you think they were doing some cloning?

Alan: If you go into the other histories that we're often taught to ignore, such as the histories of India, the Brahmans claim that the Brahmans of Northern India survived a catastrophe in the previous age. They said eventually the area where the Black Sea is was a huge valley which was used as an experimental laboratory where different types of humans were created and it all went sort of awry because they were mixing animals with humans and they started to eat each other, and so what they did was flood the whole valley and that became the Black Sea and that's in their histories.

Jackie: Then there's where the Khazars came from or at least there's where they landed?

Alan: You'll find too that that was also like a Miami for the holiday-makers of the nobility of ancient Greece they traveled to and then Rome as well. Always was.



Jackie: They went to Khazaria for their Roman holidays?

Alan: That's right, Khazaria by the sea. There's much, much older histories involved here and of course they think that the Troy itself was up that way somewhere, the original Troy, and there's no doubt they have found buildings by submarine. In the last few years they've found buildings one hundred feet or more beneath the surface of the Black Sea and they don't know how far down these buildings go. They're submerged.

Jackie: Isn't it a possibility that that all got covered up in that big deluge, that big conflagration that Immanuel Velikovsky wrote of?

Alan: I think this one was more deliberate.

Jackie: Do they have a timeline as to when it became a sea rather than a city?

Alan: Velikovsky's explanation would be around 1300 BC and this was prior to that. As I say, the Old Testament in Masonic parlance basically gives the rules of the game of this system in which we live.

Jackie: The rules of the game. Big game, right Alan? It's a real game.

Alan: It's the system. It's a system again based on money, wealth, debt, slavery and so on. It gives all of the rules. It's interesting to note as well that the Pharisees were the black-robed priests when they emerged from Babylon.

Jackie: Like the judges today?

Alan: The judges are exactly the same and of course that represents Saturn in the old mystery religion and Saturn was the father of the god; and they're not real gods. They're representatives of parts of the system. That's what Jupiter and so on all mean.

Jackie: Was it Zeus whose father was Saturn?

Alan: Saturn in Greek was Kronos (Κρόνος, Cronos, Chronos, etc.), so you go between the Greek and Roman. They have different names for the same thing.

Jackie: Zeus became Zeus-Pater or god the father and that's where Jupiter came from? The Greeks had Zeus-Pater. The Romans had Jupiter or Jove, which is Jehovah?

Alan: Yehovah, so it's the same thing.

Jackie: I remember that you had mentioned too that the story of Moses birth and being put into the brushes, hidden et cetera was an exact take off of the story of Sargon the Elder of was it Babylon?

Alan: That's right. He had the same story behind him and of course, again, it's a play on words because Cone or Cohen was priest in the Old Testament. That's where King comes from eventually through different dialects, but Cohen was priest and Cain was priest and so when they talk about bulrushes and the canes it's all symbology of a priesthood. It's an esoteric story combined within it.

Jackie: And the Ten Commandments?

Alan: Again, I mean there were a lot more than ten, but according to modern Judaism they have the whole Mishnah, which is the oral tradition, which is supposedly is the secret tradition that Moses gave to his followers and that was meant only for – it's crazy because there were no Jews when supposedly Moses gave them this, there was only Hebrews.

Jackie: And the world Hebrew is the word Habiru?

Alan: Habiru is the term that came up by the Egyptians of an invading people who came in from the highland areas to the northeast and invaded and took over Egypt for a period. They were vicious mercenaries basically.

Jackie: The Habiru? And that was the Hebrew, right?

Alan: That's what historians today think they must be and they do know that some of them had Semitic names, not all of them, though, but the Habiru was a conglomeration of different peoples. It wasn't just one race of people and they were all nomadic initially, until they settled within Egypt, and they were the most tyrannical rulers Egypt ever had and there was a General eventually who started an uprising to kick them out.

Jackie: The Hyksos are mentioned that way. Is that one in the same people?

Alan: It's the same thing. The Hyksos refers to another term they went by, and that was shepherd kings.

Jackie: Okay. This is still the same Habiru?

Alan: Yes.

Jackie: So they weren't taken into Egypt and enslaved, that they actually went in to and enslaved Egyptians?

Alan: There were two forces that came into Egypt at the same time. One from the Mediterranean Sea and they were called the Boat People, and another bunch came by land driving their animals before them and with them. The Hyksos, they often say shepherd kings, but 'Hyks' really refers to cattle, that they drove cattle ahead of them, and Habiru was the mercenaries who backed them up, basically, armed forces.

Jackie: So the more things change, the more they stay the same because they were the mercenaries.

Alan: Yes and so they took over Egypt. They slaughtered thousands of the Egyptians and then the Habiru nobility made themselves pharaohs for a couple of hundred years until they were eventually kicked out again.



Jackie: And the story of the Exodus. Isn't it amazing how they took that worldwide conflagration and wove it into a story around these special chosen people of Jehovah?

Alan: It's more than that. Again, it's an esoteric story of a group coming out of Egypt, but the real story was to do with Akhenaten priesthood. He was the pharaoh who they claim was the first guy to say that all gods are one and Aton was the god.

Jackie: And he closed down all of the temples, didn't he?

Alan: All the Amons and so on.

Jackie: We're getting to take that break at the half hour.

Alan: I guess I'll just talk about the Peoples of the Sea and the Hyksos in the meantime and the Peoples of the Sea may have come from the Grecian Islands at the same time as the land invaders were coming across from the east.

Jackie: I'm listening again. Thank you, Alan. Is there more you wanted to say about this?

Alan: The esoteric part of the coming out of Egypt is to do with an entire Washington, D.C.-size bureaucracy, the priests who had their brand new city of Amarna destroyed, and they were forced out basically. They were an Egyptian priesthood and of course they were following Akhenaten, basically. That was the real esoteric story behind it, that all God is one, you see. They called themselves slaves to the god or servants. They were public servants. That's where the term comes from and so that's what all the high Masons know of the truth of the coming out of Egypt and what it's all about. It's their system that was to take over the world coming out of one country and moving elsewhere.



Alan: Yes, because they claim that the Great Work or this part of the Great Work came to these enlightened guys around 4,000 BC. That's what they claim and that's also part of Judaic or Talmudic law, that the Great Work was begun 4,000 BC.

Jackie: 6,000 years ago. The rabbis claim that they know the exact time and date that the world was created.

Alan: In a sense they do because it's the system they're talking about.

Jackie: Okay, their world.

Alan: It's the beginning of the system.


Alan: It's all coming out now, but they definitely existed and when you do check out the esoteric traditions of the elite of Jewry you'll find the same esoteric traditions with the ancient elite of Greece and Rome and of the present nobility of Europe and the States. It's the same ancient tradition and religion within them all, so there is one religion running the whole show here.

more here
http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.c...Dec082004.html (http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/transcripts/Alan_Watt_on_Sweet_Liberty_Dec082004.html)

[thirdwave]

the thing is about when people point out things to do with "satan" and "jews".... is the Jewish faith did not view "Satan" in the same way as Christians decided too...

Satan was in fact a member of Gods team.... his advisory... man kinds prosecution...

does this not come into it at all?

this is how without understanding how faiths have been updated and amended along the way, its very easy to create boggie men out of thin air... when the real boogie men are the ones that put it all in place. who of course know Satan does not exsist and probably more than likely worship "Aton" which is what Lucifer is... known to many as "the sun".

[eternal_spirit]

The Jews have Lilith demon succubus which is sort of tied in with the adam and Eve Garden of Eden. Lilith has demonic babies by having sex with humans who are asleep so she could be viewed as the leader of the demons (like a female satan/lucifer)

Although snoops says Hillel is Satan (another female version)

Tha long post above seems to be saying all the modern day religions came from older religions.

EDIT one version is that the first Catholic Pope and many others including the last two where Jews. And the NT was written by Rabbis much of which as you know comes from the OT. So Christianity and Judaism have so much in common. Many Christians believe Jesus was a Jew.

[lizzy]

Alan: Yes, because they claim that the Great Work or this part of the Great Work came to these enlightened guys around 4,000 BC. That's what they claim and that's also part of Judaic or Talmudic law, that the Great Work was begun 4,000 BC.

Jackie: 6,000 years ago. The rabbis claim that they know the exact time and date that the world was created.

Alan: In a sense they do because it's the system they're talking about.

Jackie: Okay, their world.

Alan: It's the beginning of the system.


Alan: It's all coming out now, but they definitely existed and when you do check out the esoteric traditions of the elite of Jewry you'll find the same esoteric traditions with the ancient elite of Greece and Rome and of the present nobility of Europe and the States. It's the same ancient tradition and religion within them all, so there is one religion running the whole show here.

.........
hi eternal......^^^
this is what those of jewish blood cannot come to terms with.......those who know this , rather than acknowledge and speak out, as a few good jews do, like Henry Makow...they secretly bask in this acknowledge....feeling secure by their blood associations and help promote this 6000yr agenda........

[eternal_spirit]

who of course know Satan does not exsist and probably more than likely worship "Aton" which is what Lucifer is... known to many as "the sun".

Guess Aton is a close spelling to Satan as is Saturn.

[thirdwave]

Guess Aton is a close spelling to Satan as is Saturn.

Na, it is an Egyptian symbol of the Sun. which can also be Lucifer... Satan derived from hebrew myths as Gods adversary and the bible later depicted him as Lucifer and how "he" was thrown out of heaven by God

if you research where both have origonated from thay are two difrorent things... Lucifer/Aton is the light bringer... the morning star.... the sun. ( as was Horus and Jesus)

Satan is not really anything as there is no offical records of anyone really worshiping an enemy called satan other than modern day occult groups rejecting christinaity.

Satan was first known by Jews as Gods worker.. where he prosicuted man for his sins... nothing at all to do with the sun or light.

he was later made out to be the same person as the morning star Lucifer by the bible.

also note both Aton and Satan originated from different languages.

[eternal_spirit]

Lucifer is the all seeing eye top of the pyramid right the eye of horus. Luciferic Illumination aka Prometheus

Prometheus at Rockefeller institue New York.

http://www.cambridge2000.com/gallery/images/P31819187e.jpg

Were there no Jews in the world before the coming of Jacob's sons to Egypt?
Answer — There have always been the same elements among all populations of the earth that we identify today as Judaists. The very ancient Egyptian and Sumerian chronicles refer to them as the People of Set, or "Spirit of Disorder in Governments." No matter what conditions they found politically or socially in the lands wherein they were received, they always wanted them changed, to conform to their own eccentric notions. The Egyptians seem to have referred to them as the "Set-un" Set being the god of Darkness and Destruction, and ''un'' being the suffix meaning "people." We derive our modern word Satan from this source. When Joseph escaped from his brethren, and went down into Egypt to work himself into the good graces of Pharaoh, and his brothers later followed him and "multiplied," this racial element was designated strictly among Pharaoh's subjects as the Tribe of the Habiru. From the term "Habiru" the term "Hebrew" comes down to us. But Jews as we know them today were not so called till after the "conquering" or "overrunning" of Canaan and its capital city of Jerusalem, and the allotting of the land whereon it stood to the Tribe of Judah. The word Jew is a sort of slang contraction of Judaist or member of the specific Tribe of Judah, only we spell it J-e-w instead of the terser J-u.

William.Dudley.Pelley

[eternal_spirit]

Also it's said the devil/satan can appear in many forms so he also is known by many names to different people/cultures/religions.

We are one we are legion

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

Lucifer is the all seeing eye top of the pyramid right the eye of horus. Luciferic Illumination aka Prometheus

Prometheus at Rockefeller institue New York.

Were there no Jews in the world before the coming of Jacob's sons to Egypt?
Answer — There have always been the same elements among all populations of the earth that we identify today as Judaists. The very ancient Egyptian and Sumerian chronicles refer to them as the People of Set, or "Spirit of Disorder in Governments." No matter what conditions they found politically or socially in the lands wherein they were received, they always wanted them changed, to conform to their own eccentric notions. The Egyptians seem to have referred to them as the "Set-un" Set being the god of Darkness and Destruction, and ''un'' being the suffix meaning "people." We derive our modern word Satan from this source. When Joseph escaped from his brethren, and went down into Egypt to work himself into the good graces of Pharaoh, and his brothers later followed him and "multiplied," this racial element was designated strictly among Pharaoh's subjects as the Tribe of the Habiru. From the term "Habiru" the term "Hebrew" comes down to us. But Jews as we know them today were not so called till after the "conquering" or "overrunning" of Canaan and its capital city of Jerusalem, and the allotting of the land whereon it stood to the Tribe of Judah. The word Jew is a sort of slang contraction of Judaist or member of the specific Tribe of Judah, only we spell it J-e-w instead of the terser J-u.

William.Dudley.Pelley

Since there are over a dozen factual errors in your Post, rather than waste my time refuting them, as I have before, providing you with the proper linguistics for the word jew and the History of the Tribes.

You have reposted the same Post I refuted, what does this say about you? What does it say about your source? Who you obviously admire very much?

Let's look at dudley:




New Age Nazi
http://www.mountainx.com/news/2004/0128pelley.php
The rise and fall of Asheville's flaky fascist
by Jon Elliston in Vol. 10 / Iss. 25 on 01/28/2004

The Silver Shirts, Pelley vowed, would wage "the ultimate contest for existence between Aryan mankind and Jewry."

The news quickly crossed the Atlantic, hitting the United States like an ill wind. Adolf Hitler had vaulted into power, becoming Germany's chancellor. Most Americans familiar with Hitler's National Socialist German Workers' Party reacted with apprehension, but one Asheville man was "inspired," as he would later put it. William Dudley Pelley -- writer, publisher, guru, self-proclaimed metaphysician and avid anti-Semite -- was about to hitch his fate to the Nazis' rising star.

Pelley was working late in his Charlotte Street office that day when his secretary brought in the evening paper. In his autobiography, The Door to Revelation, Pelley recalled how he'd seized on the front-page headline about Hitler. "I looked at the lines. I read them again. I sought to comprehend them. Something clicked in my brain!"

Pelley had been watching Hitler for years, admiring the man who'd railed against the "Jewish menace" and muscled his way into power with a cadre of brown-shirted thugs. As a few of Pelley's compatriots milled about the office, he looked up from the newspaper and made an impassioned announcement that stopped them in their tracks.

"Tomorrow," Pelley declared, "we have the Silver Shirts!"

And that's how, on Jan. 31, 1933, Asheville became home to what would prove to be one of the largest pro-Hitler organizations in the United States: the Silver Legion of America (or Silver Shirts for short). Their brief and bitter story is an unusual one for Asheville, and their mercurial leader's news-making career here is all but absent from most local histories.

That lack of attention, plus other recent disclosures about the strong but historically hidden and overlooked ties between some prominent Americans and the Nazis, makes Pelley's story seem ripe for review. No less a personage than President Bush's grandfather, the late Prescott Bush, has come under new scrutiny for his part in bankrolling Hitler's rise to power. And a new book -- Max Wallace's The American Axis: Henry Ford, Charles Lindbergh, and the Rise of the Third Reich -- shows how even those two American icons served as pro-German propagandists.

It's a history that can be hard to come to terms with, Wallace told Xpress in a recent phone interview. "We look at Hitler's Germany as a sort of lunatic operation, as the kind of thing that just couldn't happen here," he said. "People are embarrassed to think that Americans could have embraced this lunacy."

It was, of course, only a brief and partial embrace. Today, Asheville displays no memorials to Pelley, no monuments or street names to mark his legacy. But amid the current wave of historical investigations of American ties to the Nazis, the special-collections division of UNCA's Ramsey Library recently made available a set of files documenting much of Pelley's work in Asheville. In addition, Pack Memorial Library has long housed rare Pelley materials, including most of his books and well-preserved copies of Silver Shirt newspapers. From those faded pages and yellowed news clips emerges the long-forgotten but still-intriguing story of Asheville's New Age Nazi.

Pelley's purpose
Although he achieved notoriety here, Pelley was not an Asheville native. He was born in 1890 in Massachusetts, the son of an itinerant Methodist preacher turned toilet-paper manufacturer. A restless but contemplative boy, Pelley showed a talent as a wordsmith from an early age. At 19, he launched his first magazine, The Philosopher, and he would remain a prolific publisher for the rest of his life.

In his 20s, Pelley freelanced for popular magazines, including Collier's, Good Housekeeping and The Saturday Evening Post. Soon his writing started taking him places. Pelley covered the aftermath of the Russian Revolution in Siberia as well as historic events in the Far East. Back in the United States, he won prizes for his short stories, penned several novels, and struck gold in Hollywood, where he cranked out a series of screenplays that were made into major motion pictures.

Despite those accomplishments, though, Pelley wasn't satisfied. Something was missing, he felt -- some sense of deeper purpose. He found it one May night in 1928 when, while sojourning at a California mountain bungalow, he drifted into what he later described as an "ecstatic interlude." For "seven minutes in eternity," Pelley said, he left his earthly body and entered a mystical realm where he bathed in an ornate pool "among jolly, worthwhile people," including a divine oracle who continued to speak to him from then on.

"Call it the Hereafter, call it Heaven, call it Purgatory, call it the Astral Plane, call it the Fourth Dimension, call it What You Will," Pelley wrote in an account of the episode. "Whatever it is -- and where -- that human entities go after being released from their physical limitations, I had gone there that night." Feeling reborn into a fundamentalist form of Christianity, he decided it was his mission to "give the whole race an inspiration by which it may quicken its spiritual pace."

In search of further insight, Pelley abandoned Hollywood for a brief stint in New York City, where he networked with clairvoyants and mystics of all sorts. Frequenting Greenwich Village salons and seances, he quickly developed what was to prove a lifelong interest in a grab bag of esoterica, from channeling to pyramidism, from studies of the afterlife to extrasensory perception, weaving it all into his unique brand of Christianity.

In 1930, Pelley relocated to Asheville, where, with assistance from wealthy donors inspired by his spiritual revelations, he founded the short-lived Galahad College. Housed in the Asheville Women's Club building at the corner of Charlotte Street and Sunset Parkway (today the site of the Zion Christian Assembly church), Galahad offered a course of study based on Pelley's own developing philosophy. Key courses included "Christian Economics" and "Social Metaphysics."

Meanwhile, Pelley launched a new magazine, Liberation, which featured his latest insights obtained from the "hyper-dimensional instruction" he said he received via "mental radio." Along with flowery paeans to Jesus Christ, the newspaper featured articles with titles like "Why You Are Opposed by Invisible Persons," "Take Your Daily Cues From the Great Pyramid" and "You Can Remember Before You Were Born!"

Galahad College folded after a couple of years, but Pelley continued to churn out his mystical manifestos. Meanwhile, he began searching in earnest for a way to parlay his supernatural interests into some tangible power here on earth. It wasn't long before another mystic with political aspirations, one Adolf Hitler, paved the way for Pelley's most ambitious project yet.

Silver Shirts
In 1933, grabbing onto Hitler's coattails, Pelley shifted his focus from spiritualism to fascism. "Silver symbolizes the purity of our fight," he proclaimed, "and the purity of our race." The Silver Shirts, he vowed, would wage "the ultimate contest for existence between Aryan mankind and Jewry."

Pelley's writings, one critic declared in a 1934 New Republic article, were now "a mad hodge-podge of mystic twaddle and reactionary, chauvinistic demagogy." Jews, Pelley maintained, were the source of all the world's supposed evils, from Communism to "Hebrew Jazz." In Washington, he wrote, "Jewish vampires" were pulling the levers of power through their pawn, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

In kinder times, this bigoted world-view might have been wholly disregarded. But in pockets of Depression-era America, hard times had prompted a rise in scapegoating -- and the Jews were a ready target. For some, Pelley's peculiar brand of hate-mongering -- still interwoven with his idiosyncratic strain of mystical Christianity -- struck a sympathetic chord.

Good timing wasn't the only way Pelley seemed tailor-made for the role of American fuehrer. Like the German leader, Pelley was a short (5 feet 7 inches) and oddly dapper man. Sporting spectacles and an angular goatee, he clad himself in the uniform he designed for the Silver Shirts: a silver or gray shirt with a scarlet "L" above the heart (to signify the "Legion"), a blue necktie, short-cut blue corduroy pants, and black leggings covering the tops of black boots. At rallies, Pelley donned a gray cap modeled after the ones worn by Hitler's storm troopers, and he was judged a rousing (if pompous and bombastic) orator.

As he threw himself into organizing his own "SS," Pelley was delighted to find ready recruits across the country. "It was an awe-inspiring thing," he wrote in his autobiography. "I had known that the nation was disgruntled with the encroaching caste of Jewry. I had never appreciated that it hungered for leadership like this." Chapters of the Silver Shirts sprang up in 22 states, with the largest clusters organizing in the Midwest and on the West Coast. At its peak in the mid-1930s, Pelley boasted that the group's membership reached 25,000; historians, however, have put the number closer to 15,000.

Establishing a quasi-military command structure, Pelley designated himself "chief" and appointed state commanders across the nation. The rank and file were grouped into 10-member "safety councils" that were instructed to meet regularly and learn to act as a unit. While a few Silver Shirt chapters conducted serious paramilitary training, most busied themselves with listening to speeches, holding the occasional public rally or march, and distributing Pelley's many publications.

In the pages of Liberation and Pelley's Silvershirt Weekly, the author trumpeted his plan for addressing "the Jewish problem" -- a plan that bore no small resemblance to Hitler's. The Silver Shirts, Pelley pledged, would spearhead a new "Christian Commonwealth" in the United States, which would register all Jews in a national census, then systematically reduce their role in business, government and cultural affairs, ultimately confining all Jews within one city in each state.

"We are sanctioning no programs of mob violence in dealing with this people," Pelley wrote to his followers in 1934, "but by the same token we are not ignoramuses in regard to Judah's plans and purposes and we will not stand for nonsense." In fact, for all their hostile rhetoric, the Silver Shirts rarely became involved in violence, and when they did, Pelley's followers didn't generally fare well. Militant trade unionists and Jewish gangsters sometimes sent their own strongmen to break up Silver Shirt rallies. According to a report by the American Jewish Historical Society, for example, Minneapolis "gambling czar" David Berman and his associates forcibly shut down three Silver Shirt gatherings, "cracking heads" and effectively running the group out of town.

And though the organization brought a core of devoted activists to Pelley's crusade, even at its peak, the Silver Shirts remained a fringe group mostly ridiculed by both the national and local press. A 1934 Asheville Times editorial, for example, openly mocked Pelley: "Asheville enjoys the rather dubious distinction of being the headquarters of the Silver Shirts. This honor was not achieved, but thrust upon the city. ... We have seen the Silver Shirt movement for what it is. In laughing at it, we laugh at others who find it a menace to the Republic."

Pelley, however, could claim genuine success in at least one pursuit: His anti-Semitic ruminations spread nationwide. Pelley's print shop, housed in the old Biltmore-Oteen Bank building, cranked out such items as the 10-cent pamphlet What 50 Famous Men have Said About Jews and a 25-cent reprint of The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, a turn-of-the-century anti-Semitic forgery -- already discredited by reputable scholars by the 1930s -- that purported to reveal a "Jewish plot against Christian civilization."

But the strongest salvo in Pelley's war of words was another forgery, the so-called "Franklin Prophecy," which he appears to have authored. The Feb. 3, 1934 issue of Liberation featured an unattributed article, provocatively titled, "Did Benjamin Franklin Say This About the Hebrews?" The article reproduced a lengthy excerpt from what it claimed was the diary of South Carolina's Charles Pinckney, one of the framers of the U.S. Constitution. Purportedly written during the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia, the "diary" entry recorded Franklin saying that while the new country must guard against religious tyranny, a more severe threat was at hand: "This greater menace, gentlemen, is the Jew!"

The entry quoted further from Franklin's supposed screed, which urged barring Jewish immigration to the new United States: "In whatever country Jews have settled in any great numbers they have lowered its moral tone. ... If you do not exclude Jews for all time, your children's children will curse you in your graves!"

A dramatic declaration, to be sure -- but a fictitious one. There's no evidence that Franklin ever made those remarks, much less that Pinckney ever wrote them down, according to numerous subsequent historical investigations of the "Franklin Prophecy." Still, the forgery -- appropriated by Germany's propaganda apparatus -- echoed around the world.

Shell games and sedition
For all Pelley's energy, vision and skill as a propagandist, however, he proved to be an abysmal businessman. With each new political or spiritual whim, it seemed, Pelley founded another enterprise, never pausing to solidify any of them. In the course of a mere 10 years, he incorporated Galahad College, the Galahad Press, the Fellowship Press, the Foundation for Christian Economics, the League for the Liberation, Pelley Publishers and the Silver Shirts, and founded five publications: Liberation, Pelley's Silvershirt Weekly, The New Liberator, The Galilean and Roll-Call.

Congressional investigators later concluded that the Silver Shirts had raised some $174,000 in the 1930s through donations and publication sales. But Pelley badly jumbled the finances among his various endeavors, conducting a contorted corporate shell game that promptly mired him in legal troubles. In January 1935, Pelley was found guilty of selling worthless stock. Convicted of fraud in Buncombe County court, he was fined and given a suspended prison sentence.

Meanwhile, the federal government was also casting a wary eye on the Silver Shirts. In 1934, the House of Representatives' newly created Special Committee on Un-American Activities sent an investigator to Asheville to seize a sizable portion of Pelley's financial records. (Later, in 1940, the committee would call Pelley to Washington to grill him about his pro-Hitler organizing and publishing.)

Undaunted, Pelley rallied the Silver Shirts behind a madcap bid for the White House. In 1936, he ran as the presidential candidate for the hastily assembled Christian Party, whose platform resembled the Silver Shirts' hate-filled mission statements. Pelley campaigned in 16 states but made it onto the ballot in only one: Washington state, where he garnered a mere 1,598 votes (300 less than the Communist Party candidate received). lol

As the United States drifted closer to war with Nazi Germany, Pelley and other American fascists pushed to keep the country neutral and openly backed the Axis powers. Meanwhile, early in 1941, Pelley decided to relocate. His legal problems in Asheville had multiplied, and worse, he'd attracted no significant local following, outside of his small circle of advisers and office staff. He was just getting his new headquarters off the ground in Noblesville, Ind. -- strategically positioned amid some hotbeds of Silver Shirt activity -- when the United States declared war against Germany and Japan.

Although Pelley was clearly too marginal a figure to pose any real threat to national security, President Roosevelt himself now deemed the Silver Shirt leader a menace to society. In January 1942, Roosevelt wrote FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, mentioning Pelley's publication The Galilean and commenting, "Some of the stuff appearing therein comes pretty close to being seditious." The president added, "Now that we are in a war, it looks like a good chance to clean up a number of these vile publications." In a March cabinet meeting, Roosevelt went further still, ordering Attorney General Francis Biddle -- a civil libertarian who'd been reluctant to crack down on dissenting publications -- to move against Pelley.

The FBI raided Pelley's offices in April 1942 and arrested him. In August, a jury of farmers and tradesmen in Indianapolis federal court found him guilty on multiple charges of sedition. The trial featured at least one laughable moment: While Pelley was on the stand, his attorney accidentally addressed the Silver Shirt leader as "Mr. Hitler." LOL

Further into the mystic
Sentenced to 15 years in prison, Pelley spent the rest of the war behind bars. Paroled in 1950, he returned to writing and publishing but mostly steered clear of politics. Pelley spent his remaining years in Indiana, delving further and further into mystical explorations. He founded a small, cultish group called Soulcraft and spent thousands of hours writing messages "channeled" from various deities and expounding on the divine providence of UFOs and extraterrestrials.

Despite Pelley's ignominious descent into the dustbin of history, it would be wrong to say his influence died with him. The fraudulent "Franklin Prophecy" he fostered has found new life on the Internet via neo-Nazi Web pages and online discussion lists. In fact, Pelley was a kind of founding father of modern hate groups, as several former Silver Shirts went on to become instrumental in forging the post-World War II white-power movement. In the early 1970s, for example, Henry "Mike" Beach, a former Silver Shirt state leader, co-founded the Posse Comitatus, a violently racist anti-government group. And former Silver Shirt Richard Butler, now 85, has spent the last 30 years leading the Aryan Nations, until recently the country's most prominent neo-Nazi organization.

In Asheville, however, the sole vestiges of Pelley's work are stored away in libraries. And that should come as no surprise, observes UNCA history professor Milton Ready, who helped assemble the university's Pelley collection. "He did not have a base of support here," says Ready. "This was just a mail drop for him." Asheville was simply too tolerant, he says, and its Jewish community too involved in business and civic affairs, for Pelley-ism to take root locally.

By the time Pelley died in 1965 at age 75, he had faded into near obscurity. There was, however, one final, fitting tribute to the man who'd stoked the fires of fascism in America. Shortly after Pelley's death, as his body lay in state in a funeral parlor near Indianapolis, someone planted a wooden cross in the ground outside and set it aflame.


ya know es, the other day in one of your Posts was a Link to a Neo-Nazi site. I think everyone should be absolutely clear where you are coming from.


ES; your own worst enemy is yourself.

I stand by, ready to help. You have to want to be helped.

Tragic :(

[thirdwave]

Lucifer is the all seeing eye top of the pyramid right the eye of horus. Luciferic Illumination aka Prometheus

Im not sure what the all seeing eye at the top of the pyramid is.. some think it is the eye of horus yes, but it is not really a fact that Horus is Lucifer, there is as much proof of that as there is Jesus being Lucifer... which might be the case in both cases.

I think the symbol probably has many meanings to it that only the creators of it know... it certainly consists of the Luciferian worship and in some images the eye at the top looks like it has reptilian skin as well... of course we can call it sun worship but for all we know there could have been another planet at the time much like the sun that was being worshipped... and maybe it is linked to where they have got their genetics from..

I think the most accurate description would be Aton/Lucifer.



Prometheus at Rockefeller institue New York.

http://www.cambridge2000.com/gallery/images/P31819187e.jpg


Were there no Jews in the world before the coming of Jacob's sons to Egypt?
Answer — There have always been the same elements among all populations of the earth that we identify today as Judaists. The very ancient Egyptian and Sumerian chronicles refer to them as the People of Set, or "Spirit of Disorder in Governments." No matter what conditions they found politically or socially in the lands wherein they were received, they always wanted them changed, to conform to their own eccentric notions. The Egyptians seem to have referred to them as the "Set-un" Set being the god of Darkness and Destruction, and ''un'' being the suffix meaning "people." We derive our modern word Satan from this source. When Joseph escaped from his brethren, and went down into Egypt to work himself into the good graces of Pharaoh, and his brothers later followed him and "multiplied," this racial element was designated strictly among Pharaoh's subjects as the Tribe of the Habiru. From the term "Habiru" the term "Hebrew" comes down to us. But Jews as we know them today were not so called till after the "conquering" or "overrunning" of Canaan and its capital city of Jerusalem, and the allotting of the land whereon it stood to the Tribe of Judah. The word Jew is a sort of slang contraction of Judaist or member of the specific Tribe of Judah, only we spell it J-e-w instead of the terser J-u.

William.Dudley.Pelley

Prometheus, lucifer?

I don't think so... and if so, Promenthuis was good to man so that would be quite interesting...

from the bibles perspective many myths and gods are the same person... their oposition... which is probebly why the story about Satan being thrown down from heaven which may be similer to one or two other stories have come about...

so far we can say that Horus, Lucifer, Satan, Baphomet, Prometheus, are all Satan.

even though every one of them has a completely different origin and came about at different times...

[newdecades]

the all seeing eye could be the eye of 'aton'.

[1977]

Alan: The judges are exactly the same and of course that represents Saturn in the old mystery religion and Saturn was the father of the god; and they're not real gods. They're representatives of parts of the system. That's what Jupiter and so on all mean.

Exactly. You will drive yourself crazy trying to connect every deity to Lucifer and it is just not worth it. Figure out what they symbolize and the roles they serve in the system.

I still want to see some more concrete evidence about the "Isis-Ra-El" thing. The El thing is a given, as is its relation to Saturn worship, but the rest? :confused:

[newdecades]

I still want to see some more concrete evidence about the "Isis-Ra-El" thing. The El thing is a given, as is its relation to Saturn worship, but the rest? :confused:

I came across that when listening to Michael Tsarion interviews. I can't remember which one it was though.

[newdecades]

I still want to see some more concrete evidence about the "Isis-Ra-El" thing. The El thing is a given, as is its relation to Saturn worship, but the rest? :confused:

Here's a video I found where Jordan maxwell talks about the 'Is-ra-el' thing.

http://www.livevideo.com/video/D69E407B544B49BCBC59B5EB5FB11843/jordan-maxwell-is-ra-el.aspx

[eternal_spirit]

quote:snoopsnuffleopagus
ya know es, the other day in one of your Posts was a Link to a Neo-Nazi site. I think everyone should be absolutely clear where you are coming from.




ES; your own worst enemy is yourself.

I stand by, ready to help. You have to want to be helped.

Tragic :(

Yawn still shilling for Yahweh. Neo Nazi what's that site> got a link? could it be one that tells the truth about your racist religion. Yahweh demanded his people to kill the gentiles nothing changes does it Snoops. How many more babies your lot gonna genitally mutilate huh. How many more Kosher animal sacrifices slow painfull deaths of the creators animals.

It's the Askenazi Jews who are the problem.

[1977]

The role of Akhenaten in all of this is an interesting and still controversial one.

The first perspective is that he was an enlightened philosopher king who bravely opposed the powerful and conniving Egyptian priesthood with his concept of a transcendent deity of absolute goodness and light who presided over all things.

The second perspective, which has come about from a modern re-evaluation of his reign, is that he was no less than a totalitarian who proclaimed himself the Only Begotten Son of Aten and imposed a rigid and uncompromising theocratic hierarchy centered around the cult of the pharaoh. In his proclamation of a single universal god who ruled over all things, he was ambitiously proclaiming no less than a global empire.

[eternal_spirit]

Im not sure what the all seeing eye at the top of the pyramid is.. some think it is the eye of horus yes, but it is not really a fact that Horus is Lucifer, there is as much proof of that as there is Jesus being Lucifer... which might be the case in both cases.

I think the symbol probably has many meanings to it that only the creators of it know... it certainly consists of the Luciferian worship and in some images the eye at the top looks like it has reptilian skin as well... of course we can call it sun worship but for all we know there could have been another planet at the time much like the sun that was being worshipped... and maybe it is linked to where they have got their genetics from..

I think the most accurate description would be Aton/Lucifer.



Prometheus, lucifer?

I don't think so... and if so, Promenthuis was good to man so that would be quite interesting...

from the bibles perspective many myths and gods are the same person... their oposition... which is probebly why the story about Satan being thrown down from heaven which may be similer to one or two other stories have come about...

so far we can say that Horus, Lucifer, Satan, Baphomet, Prometheus, are all Satan.

even though every one of them has a completely different origin and came about at different times...

I have thought that what if Jesus (is Zeus) and Lucifer, if they are Illuminated or even brothers. Both created by God and sent down from Heaven. (must be some allegory in the story) :confused:

Prometheus is also knows as a light bringer (knowledge and Illumination) and have read somewhere he is also Lucifer.

Jahbalon the light bringers of the emissionaries of Jahbalon - Jah Bal On (Sol OM On?) 3 words/languages for the word sun (also deities sun Gods) Sol Greek deity/Latin - Om Sanskrit - the sound of the divine as in OMMMMM or AUMMM Hindu/Buddhist which I think also relates to the sun. And On - the last part of Aton the Egyptian deity
which is like the word play on IS RA EL

there's different spellings (EDIT of Jah bal ON) such as this
The Lost Name of God

The Blue Lodge Masons, encompassing the first three degrees of Masonry, are instructed that they are seeking the Lost Word or the Lost Name of God... It isn't until they reach the level of Royal Arch Masonry (seventh degree, York Rite) that they discover that the Lost Name of God wasn't lost after all. It's at this level that they learn the sacred name of Masonry's God.

They find that the sacred name of (the Masonic) God is composed of three names representing the three identities of God. It is so sacred it takes three Royal Arch Masons to be able to speak it.. Jahbuhlun. The three Masons grip hands high and low and chant, "Jah-buh-lun, Jah-buh-lun, Jah-buh-lun, Je-hov-ah (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biblianazar/esp_biblianazar_jehovah.htm)." The name Jahbuhlun has three syllables representing a composite God made up of three subordinate deities. The Masonic material identifies the three as YahYahweh), Baal, and Osiris. Logically, the name should be spelled Yah-Baal-On, but Duncan's Masonic Ritual and Monitor (or admits that over the years the spelling has been "corrupted" by Freemasonry until it reached its current form.1

http://freemasonrywatch.org/pics/jahbulon_royalarch.gif

http://photos2.meetupstatic.com/photos/member/d/e/3/f/member_1616895.jpeg Jahbulon

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29553

[eternal_spirit]

The role of Akhenaten in all of this is an interesting and still controversial one.

The first perspective is that he was an enlightened philosopher king who bravely opposed the powerful and conniving Egyptian priesthood with his concept of a transcendent deity of absolute goodness and light who presided over all things.

The second perspective, which has come about from a modern re-evaluation of his reign, is that he was no less than a totalitarian who proclaimed himself the Only Begotten Son of Aten and imposed a rigid and uncompromising theocratic hierarchy centered around the cult of the pharaoh. In his proclamation of a single universal god who ruled over all things, he was ambitiously proclaiming no less than a global empire.


Yes there's some posts that relate to this on this thread. I think I've seen other ways of spelling this word Askenazi but can't find them at the moment, could Akhenaten be play on the word Askenazi - if so it adds up to the theory and all the info about Askenazi Jews. Which ties in with the OT/Talmud/Rothschilds etc.

[eternal_spirit]

Alan: The esoteric part of the coming out of Egypt is to do with an entire Washington, D.C.-size bureaucracy, the priests who had their brand new city of Amarna destroyed, and they were forced out basically. They were an Egyptian priesthood and of course they were following Akhenaten, basically. That was the real esoteric story behind it, that all God is one, you see. They called themselves slaves to the god or servants. They were public servants. That's where the term comes from and so that's what all the high Masons know of the truth of the coming out of Egypt and what it's all about. It's their system that was to take over the world coming out of one country and moving elsewhere.

Alan: It's more than that. Again, it's an esoteric story of a group coming out of Egypt, but the real story was to do with Akhenaten priesthood. He was the pharaoh who they claim was the first guy to say that all gods are one and Aton was the god.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=600414&postcount=25

re read this post I had to re read it many times (read the rest follow the link from the post) all will become clear well clearer lol. Rothschilds are Khazars/Ashkenazi and we know they have blood relatives in high places all over.

[eternal_spirit]

Yes and they are known as the king of the Jews. Solomons Temple (they have new buildings in Isreal)

12 tribes house of David Solomon etc grail bloodlines divine right of kings.

Jerusalem has churches Temples Mosques all the major religions are there.

[eternal_spirit]

This is allegory as well ok and a lie told by the Priesthoods that they are sons/suns of the Gods - So, If it was written on the cross of the crucifixion "King of the Jews"? The false Messiah may actually be the Jesus bloodline! 12 tribes of IS RA EL
Rothschilds and Mystery Schools/Masons etc claim to be of the Holy Grail Merovingians (which go further back in time before moving into Egypt/Babylon) and then became the house of David - father of the son/sun God - Sol om on and through history until the present timeline.

They want us to be servants to them (humans pretending to be Gods) by worshipping and following their religious texts and Mystery schools etc. Seeking Illumination, or a place in heaven. But it's all maybe a con and a trap to keep us enslaved.

Alan: It's all coming out now, but they definitely existed and when you do check out the esoteric traditions of the elite of Jewry you'll find the same esoteric traditions with the ancient elite of Greece and Rome and of the present nobility of Europe and the States. It's the same ancient tradition and religion within them all, so there is one religion running the whole show here.

[eternal_spirit]

Sorry people if you wanted a more exciting metaphysical spiritual enlightenment for us or something else type conclusion (can't think of one at the moment):o

I feel stuck here in human form amongst the flesh and blood world and sometimes do think that Illumination/elightenment is a carrot on a stick and a big con set up by the Priesthoods.

I bet no one has a clue what I've been rambling on about for the past few hours#From Horus to boreus and confuse us some more. Can you imagine me trying to explain this in words off line to someone haha, I try.

[newdecades]

Akhenaten supposedly started the first religion that worshiped one god, aton/the sun, and supposedly atonism is where judaism, christianity, and islam come from. they're kind of like branches on the tree of atonism. I definitely think it's possible.

[eternal_spirit]

Akhenaten supposedly started the first religion that worshiped one god, aton/the sun, and supposedly atonism is where judaism, christianity, and islam come from. they're kind of like branches on the tree of atonism. I definitely think it's possible.

I'm guessing here forget the slightly different spelling it's how words can be pronounced the same regardless of spelling - but a tone (musical note - atonal) at one all - or aton el
ma sonic (sonic relates to sound sometimes meaning beyond the ears hearing range ) In the beginning was the word and the word was (sonic hidden as in occult)

back to Yahweh/Jehova and a whole host of names for deities/God - the ineffable.

atonism a collective making up a whole - on - one.

[thirdwave]

I have thought that what if Jesus (is Zeus) and Lucifer, if they are Illuminated or even brothers. Both created by God and sent down from Heaven. (must be some allegory in the story) :confused:

Well Zeus was not really a pleasant chap...

Prometheus is also knows as a light bringer (knowledge and Illumination) and have read somewhere he is also Lucifer.

News to me.... he brought fire to man, after Zeus had punished man by taking it from them for taking the piss out of him.... any talk of him being Lucifer would be merely speculation.... you have to remember Lucifer is not what the bible says.... he is Aton....

the bible has many angles on what Lucifer is...and like I say you can pick loads of Lucifer... like Horus.... so on...

But I have never heard of Prometheus as the light bringer... its a myth, and probably does contain truth within it.... but if you go by the christian perspective of who Lucifer is, you will have your hands full... as it puts allot of people (including Lucifer its self) under the Satan bracket.

in fact what you are pointing out is more where the bible took the Lucifer story from.. or where they were inspired to get it.

if Prometheus is Lucifer, then that would be another example of how Lucifer is not an evil being at all, but in fact a liberating one.

[kidsarocker]

the thing is about when people point out things to do with "satan" and "jews".... is the Jewish faith did not view "Satan" in the same way as Christians decided too...

Satan was in fact a member of Gods team.... his advisory... man kinds prosecution...

does this not come into it at all?

this is how without understanding how faiths have been updated and amended along the way, its very easy to create boggie men out of thin air... when the real boogie men are the ones that put it all in place. who of course know Satan does not exsist and probably more than likely worship "Aton" which is what Lucifer is... known to many as "the sun".

If there is no Satan then why the satanic symbolism in the media?

[thirdwave]

If there is no Satan then why the satanic symbolism in the media?

Its not a case of there being no Satan.... its a case of knowing what "Satan" is.... under the Christian faith you are taught to fear Satan as some evil spirit or being ...some being from some place we cant get to... but there is no research or explanation as to why, other than mythical stories that are taken from Greek Myths and distorted and changed..

We don't see many Satanic symbols in the media, we are told by many people we do... we do see Occult symbols in the media and occult does not = Satanic....

in most cases you can see Lucafirian symbols more... and Lucifer is not good or evil... it is in a nut shell "sun worship" ... this does not mean the sun is evil either, it means it brings enlightenment....

there is a difference with being enlightened and being wise...

many myths teach us how people can be enlightened but choose to take the dark path.... same source but the dark side.... and we are shown the light side is the most fruitful path for all...

So what you are seeing is Darth Vader and his Syths ruling this planet.... they still understand the "force" and use it.... and we don't understand it or use it..... but its there for us as well... I guess we could kind of call Lucifer "The Force".

of course when you use the force you are often tempted to join the dark side.... and I think our race has been lousy with this.... (and maybe its not only our race)

[synergy777]

Its not a case of there being no Satan.... its a case of knowing what "Satan" is.... under the Christian faith you are taught to fear Satan as some evil spirit or being ...some being from some place we cant get to... but there is no research or explanation as to why, other than mythical stories that are taken from Greek Myths and distorted and changed..

We don't see many Satanic symbols in the media, we are told by many people we do... we do see Occult symbols in the media and occult does not = Satanic....

in most cases you can see Lucafirian symbols more... and Lucifer is not good or evil... it is in a nut shell "sun worship" ... this does not mean the sun is evil either, it means it brings enlightenment....

there is a difference with being enlightened and being wise...

many myths teach us how people can be enlightened but choose to take the dark path.... same source but the dark side.... and we are shown the light side is the most fruitful path for all...

So what you are seeing is Darth Vader and his Syths ruling this planet.... they still understand the "force" and use it.... and we don't understand it or use it..... but its there for us as well... I guess we could kind of call Lucifer "The Force".

of course when you use the force you are often tempted to join the dark side.... and I think our race has been lousy with this.... (and maybe its not only our race)

i somewhat agree with this.

that this energy/force/cosmic energy is a powerful commodity.

hence knowledge of it, the technqiues to use it, this is what the elite withold from us, this is what gives them power and thus control.

thus the elite who have the knowledge and techniques to utilise it can use it for their own evil aims.

wheras if we had the knowledge and techniques to utilise it, we could use it for good.

thus this neutral aspect, and its use being creative/positive or destructive/negative is the key. by using our free will with knowledge/technique, we decide to be good or evil.

[2013]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_spirit http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=474736#post474736)
http://www.rondart.com/The%20Essential%20Talmud.jpg

Look carefully at the flowery pattern, if you don't see it look again.

Looks like it says Satan IMO.

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/5024/003001c8df8bcb35d49053ajn8.jpg

Zionism is the NWO.

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5130/pyramidmasonxf7.gif EDIT follow the letters at the points of the hexagram aka Star of David aka Seal of Solomon it spells Mason!

Jackie: I was trying to do a search I found something interesting. The first five books of the Old Testament being the Torah, I wound up in this Jewish website and I think it's called Judaism 101 or something of frequently asked questions, what does tora mean? They said, listen folks, it can have several meanings.





Interesting post . i posted about the eye having a pupil where light enter in creatign an image in the center of the brain . Therefore the mystery taught the pupil about light and were concerned with the holographic illusion and illumination .The meaning and origins of words is fascinating .As you pointed out temple is in the head as well . Something i noticed reading this post Mason =MA SON . Ma being a term for mother and son ! Also Torah could it be dedicated TO RAh ? :D

[luciferhorus]

Just to sum up this topic.

1: I certainly consider the writings of Archaraya S, Jordan Maxwell, Michael Tsarion and indeed David Icke to be important and indeed essential reading for all researchers of this subject.

2: If we find some points of contention academically where we might say that Archaraya S, Jordan Maxwell, Michael Tsarion and David Icke, etc., have got 'some' research from dubious sources, such a criticism is quite academically respectible, however it does not follow that their entire thesis is incorrect; on the contrary; I tend to concur with their generally well researched analysis regarding the many 'sons of god,' esoteric symbolism, the history of religion and the general malevolence of organised religion, though I am unconvinced about Icke's 'reptilian' beliefs; the world is ruled by Capitalist devils, not reptiles as far as I am aware, though I concur with almost all of Icke's analysis of the history of Capitalism and Religion

3: I think it is important to separate the Greek god 'Christ' from the Israelite martyr, Jesus.

We can neither prove nor disprove the existence of the martyr Jesus, but it is not difficult to 'believe' that such a person existed, since there were so many Messianic revolutionaries of his ilk; if Jesus never existed, many others of his ilk certainly did.

To reach the 'Historical Jesus' or the 'revolutionary archetype' of that era, we must strip away the myths and miracles (which were commonly attributed to heroic figures by our overtly superstitious ancestors), and then we are left with the 'sayings' of Jesus, many of which are the products of a dialogue or 'public debate' between himself and his opponents and allies, just as we all do here on this forum.

4: Jesus and Christ.

1: Christ

It is clear that 'Christ' is the god of Capital, of hypocrisy, a mythical miraculous figure who has many similarilites to other ancient gods; this is what Christians worship, believing that they will enter Heaven in the afterlife simply by 'believing' in him and at the same time rejecting his anti-Capitalist teachings and his opposition to organised religion.


2: Jesus

Consider what would happen if a homeless, moneyless, shoe-less, anti-propertyist, anti-Capitalist / anti-monetarist of Arabic appearance, dressed only in one robe, stood outside Buckingham Palace (home of the head of the Christian Church in the UK), crying 'woe to you hypocrites' and cursing the economic elites and religious hypocrites. Would Christians build a temple to this man? Would Elizabeth come out and worship him as God? I think not.

I was outside Buckingham Palace with the Anarchists (who are much like the historical Jesus) at the demonstration while Elizabeth put on a multi-million dollar banquet for George Bush; also attended by the heads of the York Rite and Scottish Rite (the Duke of Kent and Angus Ogilvie) and the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Elizabeth, George, the Archbishop, the 'Duke' and his relative (by marraige) Angus did not come out and worship a single Anarchist (whose placards and mantras were very much cursing them all to hell).

Similarly I have get nothing but abuse from Capitalist Christians and the worshippers of 'Christ;' it is to be expected. They do not recognise those of my ilk, for the spirit of the historical Jesus is not in them, but rather resides in the anti-Capitalists and opponents of the economic elites of this age.

The worshippers of 'Christ' today represent the legacy of the enemies of Jesus; they have nothing to do with the teachings of the alleged historical person; if they did, there would be a billion Christians dedicated to Communist revolution and the overthrowal of the Capitalist elites and hypocrites of organised religion and the world would be a better place; it is not so.

David Icke does not believe in the Capitalist Christ (neither do I, and neither do most of you here), but David is very much like the historical Jesus; he exposes and cries out against the economic elites and hypocrites of religion (much as many of you do here), and has made many powerful enemies; and that is probably why the Christians despise him.

Shame on them.

LL

Lux
http://www.luciferia.tv/animation/A.gif

"Blessed are they who have been persecuted for righteousness sake. For theirs is the kingdom of Heaven. ....For so they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

[vinnyharris]

I have gained much from the works of David Icke and Acharya S - in fact, I met David at one of his lectures once several years ago & he highly recommended Acharya S.

The guy who calls himself King David is just another biased, bigoted xian fundy out to shore up the faith. I've seen his posts around different forums & youtube - he utterly refuses to study CM works so that way he can keep claiming he can't find any evidence. He won't read it but he demands to be "spoon-fed" the nearly 2,000 pages from 4 books Acharya has written on the subject at little youtube comments. He's just another dishonest apologist - as Joseph Wheless used to call them, "Little liars for the Lord"

Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_ZmsRUmuWU&feature=channel_page

I started a thread on this awhile back - http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55562&highlight=Christ+Egypt%3A+Horus-Jesus+Connection

[drakul]

I have gained much from the works of David Icke and Acharya S - in fact, I met David at one of his lectures once several years ago & he highly recommended Acharya S.

The guy who calls himself King David is just another biased, bigoted xian fundy out to shore up the faith. I've seen his posts around different forums & youtube - he utterly refuses to study CM works so that way he can keep claiming he can't find any evidence. He won't read it but he demands to be "spoon-fed" the nearly 2,000 pages from 4 books Acharya has written on the subject at little youtube comments. He's just another dishonest apologist - as Joseph Wheless used to call them, "Little liars for the Lord"

Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_ZmsRUmuWU&feature=channel_page

I started a thread on this awhile back - http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55562&highlight=Christ+Egypt%3A+Horus-Jesus+Connection

This book claims Horus was CRUCIFIED - that is major. I am an amateur Egyptologist. I've been to Egypt and have been studying Egyptian and ancient Mediterranean history for years. I have never seen any ancient Egyptian pictographs or read any confirmation by recognized Egyptologists that Horus was crucified. I have a copy of the Egyptian Book of the Dead and it says nothing about Horus being crucified. In fact I've never seen one example of a crucifixion in Egyptian art.

I have one of Murdoch's books - The Christ Conspiracy - very disappointing. Murdoch is a phoney wannabe who makes stuff up to fit her theories. For example - the video clip you posted promoting Christ in Egypt shows a pictograph of Horus holding his arms up in a form of benediction and makes the statement - `Horus was crucified betw 2 thieves'. No cross, no thieves, no nothing. So obviously Murdoch is incapable of backing up her claims if that's the best she can do - PUHLEEZE - how stupid does she think we are?

[thirdwave]

i somewhat agree with this.

that this energy/force/cosmic energy is a powerful commodity.

hence knowledge of it, the technqiues to use it, this is what the elite withold from us, this is what gives them power and thus control.

thus the elite who have the knowledge and techniques to utilise it can use it for their own evil aims.

wheras if we had the knowledge and techniques to utilise it, we could use it for good.

thus this neutral aspect, and its use being creative/positive or destructive/negative is the key. by using our free will with knowledge/technique, we decide to be good or evil.



totally... and the thing is sometimes people dive in for a swim... swallow some salt water and get it in their eyes.. jump out thinking they nearly died.... as we are not nurtured to deal with it well.... the elite have made it very cosy here for us... well, cosy in our mind set... you need to get your self to Avebury this summer my friend ;)

[thirdwave]

Just to sum up this topic.

1: I certainly consider the writings of Archaraya S, Jordan Maxwell, Michael Tsarion and indeed David Icke to be important and indeed essential reading for all researchers of this subject.

2: If we find some points of contention academically where we might say that Archaraya S, Jordan Maxwell, Michael Tsarion and David Icke, etc., have got 'some' research from dubious sources, such a criticism is quite academically respectible, however it does not follow that their entire thesis is incorrect; on the contrary; I tend to concur with their generally well researched analysis regarding the many 'sons of god,' esoteric symbolism, the history of religion and the general malevolence of organised religion, though I am unconvinced about Icke's 'reptilian' beliefs; the world is ruled by Capitalist devils, not reptiles as far as I am aware, though I concur with almost all of Icke's analysis of the history of Capitalism and Religion

3: I think it is important to separate the Greek god 'Christ' from the Israelite martyr, Jesus.

We can neither prove nor disprove the existence of the martyr Jesus, but it is not difficult to 'believe' that such a person existed, since there were so many Messianic revolutionaries of his ilk; if Jesus never existed, many others of his ilk certainly did.

To reach the 'Historical Jesus' or the 'revolutionary archetype' of that era, we must strip away the myths and miracles (which were commonly attributed to heroic figures by our overtly superstitious ancestors), and then we are left with the 'sayings' of Jesus, many of which are the products of a dialogue or 'public debate' between himself and his opponents and allies, just as we all do here on this forum.

4: Jesus and Christ.

1: Christ

It is clear that 'Christ' is the god of Capital, of hypocrisy, a mythical miraculous figure who has many similarilites to other ancient gods; this is what Christians worship, believing that they will enter Heaven in the afterlife simply by 'believing' in him and at the same time rejecting his anti-Capitalist teachings and his opposition to organised religion.


2: Jesus

Consider what would happen if a homeless, moneyless, shoe-less, anti-propertyist, anti-Capitalist / anti-monetarist of Arabic appearance, dressed only in one robe, stood outside Buckingham Palace (home of the head of the Christian Church in the UK), crying 'woe to you hypocrites' and cursing the economic elites and religious hypocrites. Would Christians build a temple to this man? Would Elizabeth come out and worship him as God? I think not.

I was outside Buckingham Palace with the Anarchists (who are much like the historical Jesus) at the demonstration while Elizabeth put on a multi-million dollar banquet for George Bush; also attended by the heads of the York Rite and Scottish Rite (the Duke of Kent and Angus Ogilvie) and the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Elizabeth, George, the Archbishop, the 'Duke' and his relative (by marraige) Angus did not come out and worship a single Anarchist (whose placards and mantras were very much cursing them all to hell).

Similarly I have get nothing but abuse from Capitalist Christians and the worshippers of 'Christ;' it is to be expected. They do not recognise those of my ilk, for the spirit of the historical Jesus is not in them, but rather resides in the anti-Capitalists and opponents of the economic elites of this age.

The worshippers of 'Christ' today represent the legacy of the enemies of Jesus; they have nothing to do with the teachings of the alleged historical person; if they did, there would be a billion Christians dedicated to Communist revolution and the overthrowal of the Capitalist elites and hypocrites of organised religion and the world would be a better place; it is not so.

David Icke does not believe in the Capitalist Christ (neither do I, and neither do most of you here), but David is very much like the historical Jesus; he exposes and cries out against the economic elites and hypocrites of religion (much as many of you do here), and has made many powerful enemies; and that is probably why the Christians despise him.

Shame on them.

LL

Lux
http://www.luciferia.tv/animation/A.gif

"Blessed are they who have been persecuted for righteousness sake. For theirs is the kingdom of Heaven. ....For so they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

very well put, I agree..

[thirdwave]

This book claims Horus was CRUCIFIED - that is major. I am an amateur Egyptologist. I've been to Egypt and have been studying Egyptian and ancient Mediterranean history for years. I have never seen any ancient Egyptian pictographs or read any confirmation by recognized Egyptologists that Horus was crucified. I have a copy of the Egyptian Book of the Dead and it says nothing about Horus being crucified. In fact I've never seen one example of a crucifixion in Egyptian art.

I have one of Murdoch's books - The Christ Conspiracy - very disappointing. Murdoch is a phoney wannabe who makes stuff up to fit her theories. For example - the video clip you posted promoting Christ in Egypt shows a pictograph of Horus holding his arms up in a form of benediction and makes the statement - `Horus was crucified betw 2 thieves'. No cross, no thieves, no nothing. So obviously Murdoch is incapable of backing up her claims if that's the best she can do - PUHLEEZE - how stupid does she think we are?

This is a new book full of info that explains why there is this belief, made to challenge the people who are saying what you are saying now.., you have to remember that this belief CHALLENGES the other beliefs and there for, of course you can research other views on it... but this has been taken from old scholars who were not given the attention...

until now.

you are free to choose to believe the story's that have been passed down to you.. or you can dare to venture into new ground where other people have different perspectives and believe that somewhere along the line the truth has been twisted... and hidden...

I mean, you were not even their in Egypt... to ask the people... you are only going by what you are told.. so you don't KNOW, so how can you claim someone is a wannabe because she does not believe what you do?

I believe %90 of the time she is spot on.

[1977]

No, Horus was not crucified. We have prostrated ourselves before the image of the Dead God in the leaden coffin, Osiris.

[thirdwave]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP3g66IdSVQ&NR=1

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-7067424531170940883

[vinnyharris]

Drakul "I am an amateur Egyptologist. I've been to Egypt and have been studying Egyptian and ancient Mediterranean history for years"

What qualifications, formal training or credentials have you? What linguistic skills have you?

77, drakul ... Who here actually has the book, "Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection" ? I do and Acharya provides excellent sources throughout the book. She couldn't possibly back-up and substantiate her claims any more than she does in CIE. So, I see no reason to trust drakul whatsoever.

It's pretty clear that Horus was definitely crucified according to the Egyptians and ancient primary sources. There's an entire chapter about it titled, "Was Horus "Crucified"? on page 335.

[1977]

It's pretty clear that Horus was definitely crucified according to the Egyptians and ancient primary sources. There's an entire chapter about it titled, "Was Horus "Crucified"? on page 335.
Since you have the book, could you please post what evidence she provides that Horus was crucified? I am honestly very curious.

[vinnyharris]

Since you have the book, could you please post what evidence she provides that Horus was crucified? I am honestly very curious.

No, I don't think anyone trying to relay the info can do it nearly as well as she does it in the book and couldn't do her work or the primary sources justice. Those who are sincerely interested in learning about the facts & evidence on these issues need to get the book.

drakul "I've never seen one example of a crucifixion in Egyptian art"

Prepare to learn much more about Egyptian religion than you ever have before. She has 60+ pics and there is an abundance of ancient Egyptian art in cruciform with arms outstretched and it has been right in front of you all along but you didn't know what to look for or you just didn't know what you were looking at!!!!!!!!!! This book brings it all to light. "Christ in Egypt" has the potential to change Egyptology as we know it. She has done an excellent job with this book - it proves all the anti-Zeitgeist crowd wrong with over 900 excellent sources in the bibliography & they're most all top notch scholars highly credentialed in their field of study...many are modern Egyptologists, astronomers, historians etc. This is her best book.

[drakul]

No, I don't think anyone trying to relay the info can do it nearly as well as she does it in the book and couldn't do her work or the primary sources justice. Those who are sincerely interested in learning about the facts & evidence on these issues need to get the book.

Prepare to learn much more about Egyptian religion than you ever have before. She has 60+ pics and there is an abundance of ancient Egyptian art in cruciform with arms outstretched and it has been right in front of you all along but you didn't know what to look for or you just didn't know what you were looking at!!!!!!!!!! This book brings it all to light. "Christ in Egypt" has the potential to change Egyptology as we know it. She has done an excellent job with this book - it proves all the anti-Zeitgeist crowd wrong with over 900 excellent sources in the bibliography & they're most all top notch scholars highly credentialed in their field of study...many are modern Egyptologists, astronomers, historians etc. This is her best book.


Uhuh. Vinnyharris - just another DM Murdoch clone trying to sell her books. She constantly haunts DavidIcke.com pushing her wares. Maybe because her site - Truthbeknown.com is so dead. Not much freedom of speech there if you don't agree with her.

Of course `Vinny' isn't not going to show you any proof. 1. Because she wants you to buy her book. 2. She has none.

Because there's a pictograph of Horus holding out his arms that means he was crucified? See how she stretches reality to fit her agenda?

Murdoch is the farthest thing from a scholar. An archeologist bases their findings on PRIMARY EVIDENCE. Murdoch only twists things to suit her agenda.

[vinnyharris]

Uhuh. Vinnyharris - just another DM Murdoch clone trying to sell her books. She constantly haunts DavidIcke.com pushing her wares. Maybe because her site - Truthbeknown.com is so dead. Not much freedom of speech there if you don't agree with her.

Of course `Vinny' isn't not going to show you any proof. 1. Because she wants you to buy her book. 2. She has none.

Because there's a pictograph of Horus holding out his arms that means he was crucified? See how she stretches reality to fit her agenda?

Murdoch is the farthest thing from a scholar. An archeologist bases their findings on PRIMARY EVIDENCE. Murdoch only twists things to suit her agenda.

Nevermind your smears, lies & other libelous comments drakul, I can't help but notice you glossed over my question

What qualifications, formal training or credentials have you? What linguistic skills have you?

drakul "Because there's a pictograph of Horus holding out his arms that means he was crucified? "

Nice straw man argument - that's not at all what I said but you already knew that.

"Vinnyharris - just another DM Murdoch clone trying to sell her books. She constantly haunts DavidIcke.com pushing her wares. Maybe because her site - Truthbeknown.com is so dead. Not much freedom of speech there if you don't agree with her.

Again, ALL LIES drakul!!! What a disgusting person of low character you are. It's categorically clear how utterly biased you are drakul - nobody expects any objectivity from you, your hatred of her is clear as glass. I think you're just jealous - you seem to be an Egyptologist wanna be. Oh well, all the best to ya on that.

[1977]

No, I don't think anyone trying to relay the info can do it nearly as well as she does it in the book and couldn't do her work or the primary sources justice. Those who are sincerely interested in learning about the facts & evidence on these issues need to get the book. Well, I mean, providing at least one source would probably help prove Drakul wrong.

[arty2000]

Just found this :
http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/JesusHorus.html

So now im confused :-S

Zeitgeist told me the similarities were true so.. someones lieing do you know who it is?
I wish i was a fly on the wall 2000 years ago.

jesus/horus=suns of god but so many others
12 disciples/12 followers ,both sheperds,performed miracles..etc.;)
involves movements of the sun..solstices/eqinoxes,zodiac signs,for example hercules and his 12 labors...the sun moving through the signs of the zodiac...jesus/horus=sun w/there 12 followers..signs of the zodiac...not to mention all the immaculate inception that was goin makes you wonder if any one had sex back then:)..jesus is just the latest composite figure.

peace and luv my friends:)

[thirdwave]

Since you have the book, could you please post what evidence she provides that Horus was crucified? I am honestly very curious.

I would imagine you are also sceptical that Horus was born to a virgin mother?

[thirdwave]

Uhuh. Vinnyharris - just another DM Murdoch clone trying to sell her books. She constantly haunts DavidIcke.com pushing her wares. Maybe because her site - Truthbeknown.com is so dead. Not much freedom of speech there if you don't agree with her.

and on the other hand we could say, you are just another christian with the inablity to deal with the truth....

Why would she not look for people like Icke to support her books? ... David Icke has used her research in some of his books and supports her works ... who should she ask ? :rolleyes:

Of course `Vinny' isn't not going to show you any proof. 1. Because she wants you to buy her book. 2. She has none.
ths shock and horror!!.... she wants people to buy her books!, I thought she would be set on making them a secret! :rolleyes:

I have provided an interview where she discusses her research with an ignorant Christian guy... and he even ends up cutting her off and insulting her off line... have a listen and hear it from the horses mouth.

Because there's a pictograph of Horus holding out his arms that means he was crucified? See how she stretches reality to fit her agenda? No, I believe that was a reference to your claim there was no pictures or anything to suggest this.... you where wrong.... but of course there is more than a few pics that suggest he was crucified...

Murdoch is the farthest thing from a scholar. An archeologist bases their findings on PRIMARY EVIDENCE. Murdoch only twists things to suit her agenda.
Yo are not qualified to say that... as she knows more than you, and she bases much of her work on other scholars throughout history.

Are you saying she should give the book away for free in order for the info in it to be correct...?

her last books where attacked even though people read them and found them extremely thought provoking... this book as stepped things up... and so far the book is getting great feed back.. personally I am sick of hearing Christians try to lie and smear the truth away in these books so am happy she has thrown something really strong out there and no doubt she will feel the bacl lash from this... in fact I exchanged a few my space messages with her a while back and she did tell me her next book would cause a storm.

I think she was just fed up with Christians going on about how much of a liar she was and how she was a crook and so on, so that is pretty much what this book is for...to set a few things straight... Im sure there are many that were taken in by the dogmatic closed mindedness of religious people banging on and on about these people and caking youtube with vids and bombarding forums spreading the disease of ignorance..... but I have always said the truth will no longer be oppressed and I still believe Im right.

I don't care what kind of person you are...nice or evil... or what manner you practice your religion... the truth should never be a bad thing!

[thirdwave]

Well, I mean, providing at least one source would probably help prove Drakul wrong.

you want him to sit there a type out the who chapter for you?

have you not watched the video that promotes the book?, it lists loads of scholars that she has taken research from... why not check them out your self?, if I was generally interested I would.

I have also provided an interview where she addressed allot of questions from a person who is very much hounding her, she was not running away.

[drakul]

you want him to sit there a type out the who chapter for you?

have you not watched the video that promotes the book?, it lists loads of scholars that she has taken research from... why not check them out your self?, if I was generally interested I would.

I have also provided an interview where she addressed allot of questions from a person who is very much hounding her, she was not running away.

Nobody's asking you to type out a whole chapter. But that's the way you always twist everything. Just show us one pic of a CRUCIFIED HORUS.

No more no less. That's what it's all about.

[thirdwave]

Nobody's asking you to type out a whole chapter. But that's the way you always twist everything. Just show us one pic of a CRUCIFIED HORUS.

No more no less. That's what it's all about.

No you guys twist in your desperate attempt to make people believe Jesus was the son of god...

it was stated that there was a whole chapter on this subject. How else can one prove the chapter is of genuine content with out them seeing it??, what is so twisted about that?...

the names of the scholars have allready been listed in the promo vid.... what do you want?.. us to spend ages re writting the book for you so you dont have to buy it?

it has been stated what the book proves and consists of.. the next step is to find out for your self...

you also have a 45 min interview here where she is arguing with a man who was telling her what you are going on about..

the pics are in the book, why should someone spend the time to scan them in and post them just to hear a load of bullshit back from you? (thats if you are even aloud to scan them from the book and post them here) those a pic can and has allways been easily brushed off, as if that would cinvince you...

for example, what do you think of this image of orpheus?

http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/images/orpheus_crux.jpg

maybe now the book is in circulation we will start to see the pics... that is what happens when new ground is covered...

It was your kind who destrioed most pagan art anyway, and its still you guys jumping on anything esle descovered.


It makes me laugh how you guys think people have to go out of their way to convince you, yet the bible is the word of fact.... if you want to debunk her book then you will need to go to the effort she has in her book to do the same!

[drakul]

No you guys twist in your desperate attempt to make people believe Jesus was the son of god...

it was stated that there was a whole chapter on this subject. How else can one prove the chapter is of genuine content with out them seeing it??, what is so twisted about that?...

the names of the scholars have allready been listed in the promo vid.... what do you want?.. us to spend ages re writting the book for you so you dont have to buy it?

it has been stated what the book proves and consists of.. the next step is to find out for your self...

you also have a 45 min interview here where she is arguing with a man who was telling her what you are going on about..

the pics are in the book, why should someone spend the time to scan them in and post them just to hear a load of bullshit back from you? (thats if you are even aloud to scan them from the book and post them here) those a pic can and has allways been easily brushed off, as if that would cinvince you...

for example, what do you think of this image of orpheus?

http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/images/orpheus_crux.jpg

maybe now the book is in circulation we will start to see the pics... that is what happens when new ground is covered...

It was your kind who destrioed most pagan art anyway, and its still you guys jumping on anything esle descovered.


It makes me laugh how you guys think people have to go out of their way to convince you, yet the bible is the word of fact.... if you want to debunk her book then you will need to go to the effort she has in her book to do the same!


That pic of the Orpheus amulet has been used in Theosophist books for YEARS since at least 1935. It was used as the COVER for the book the Jesus Mysteries by Anthony Freke in 1998. It was also shown in the video Zeitgeist - so don't pretend this is some new and exciting revelation exclusive to Murdoch's book.

This amulet is dated 300+AD - well after the time of Jesus and thousands of years after Horus so proves nothing.

The pic is supposedly Orpheus NOT Horus, who is the subject of this thread. In any case the amulet has been pronounced a fake because the crucifixtion style is Medieval NOT Late Antiguity.

http://bedejournal.blogspot.com/2004/07/some-news-and-thoughts-on-crucified.html

http://www.bede.org.uk/orpheus.htm

http://bedejournal.blogspot.com/2006_05_01_bedejournal_archive.html

[1977]

I would imagine you are also sceptical that Horus was born to a virgin mother?
No. :rolleyes: Isis was regarded as many things, including the "Great Virgin." This is easily found in books on the subject. I have always been the first one to point out Egyptian parallels with Christianity.

you want him to sit there a type out the who chapter for you?
No. I simply want him to list a primary source so that we can all prove naysayers like Drakul wrong once and for all. This forum should be for the free sharing of information.

[thirdwave]

That pic of the Orpheus amulet has been used in Theosophist books for YEARS since at least 1935. It was used as the COVER for the book the Jesus Mysteries by Anthony Freke in 1998. It was also shown in the video Zeitgeist - so don't pretend this is some new and exciting revelation exclusive to Murdoch's book.

This amulet is dated 300+AD - well after the time of Jesus and thousands of years after Horus so proves nothing.

The pic is supposedly Orpheus NOT Horus, who is the subject of this thread. In any case the amulet has been pronounced a fake because the crucifixtion style is Medieval NOT Late Antiguity.

LOL

nice try!

dear me talk about twisting shit.. I never said it was Horus... and I never said it was from the book.. I brought it up as it was a smiler thing that was on the net with a quick search... I have not and will not scan the book.

and it has not been pronounced fake other than Christians doing so... but yes it was not created during the time of Orpheus life ... but please show me some sculptures of Jesus made when he was alive? .. this sculpture was also not the only of his kind that survived the bombardment of Christian Spaniards...

actually maybe I should not have posted as now you will just try and cling to that...

did you actually read my post?

[thirdwave]

No. :rolleyes: Isis was regarded as many things, including the "Great Virgin." This is easily found in books on the subject. I have always been the first one to point out Egyptian parallels with Christianity.


No. I simply want him to list a primary source so that we can all prove naysayers like Drakul wrong once and for all. This forum should be for the free sharing of information.

But the sources are listed in the video that was sent... every name... about 15-20 people.... go check them out..

other than that the book would do the trick....



Rudolf Anthes
Jan Assman
Hellmut Brunner
Claas J. Bleeker
Bob Brier
Henri Frankfort
Alan H. Gardiner


John Gwyn Griffiths
Erik Hornung
Barry Kemp
Barbara Lesko
Bojana Mojsov
Siegfried Morenz
William Murnane


Margaret A. Murray
Donald B. Redford
Herman te Velde
Claude Traunecker
Reginald E. Witt
Louis V. Zabkar
and many more!

[1977]

But the sources are listed in the video that was sent... every name... about 15-20 people.... go check them out..

other than that the book would do the trick....
Okay. I saw the video. Thanks. :rolleyes:

[thirdwave]

Okay. I saw the video. Thanks. :rolleyes:

ok well don't be shy :)

If you have researched the parallels of Christianity and A Egypt then feel free to point out where Acharia S is wrong..

you seem to be quite vague on your stance here IMO.... I feel the urge to say "spit it out dear fellow!" :)

[1977]

ok well don't be shy :)

If you have researched the parallels of Christianity and A Egypt then feel free to point out where Acharia S is wrong..

you seem to be quite vague on your stance here IMO.... I feel the urge to say "spit it out dear fellow!" :)
Christians have contributed more than enough lies and distortions in the past that I only feel that we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard in being scrupulously accurate to the data. Now, this is what I said: "I am honestly very curious". Even Gerald Massey, who wrote several thick books on Egyptian/Christian parallels, does not say that Horus was crucified—only that the death of Osiris is equivalent to the crucifixion: http://www.masseiana.org/aebk12.htm#868

The tradition of Osiris resurrecting on the third day is attested from antiquity. Here is a summary of the Mystery-Play of the Stela of Ikhernofret (http://www.redmoonrising.com/Giza/SpiritCiv5.htm):

The First Day - The Procession of Wepwawet:
Wepwawet opens the way of the procession. The enemies of Wesir (Osiris) are struck down in a mock battle. It seems an assault was staged by the 'followers of Set,' this was to be struck down, either by priests or by pilgrims acting as the 'followers of Wesir,' or perhaps both. The jackal-god Wepwawet who is walking foremost in all royal processions and conquests, goes by the name of 'Opener of the Ways.' In that context he opens the path for Wesir to gain access to the tomb.

The Second Day - The Great Procession of Wesir:
The deceased Wesir, carried on a barque called 'Neshmet' (night barque which Re rides in every night) is taken from his temple to his tomb. The procession moves through the surrounding cemetery grounds to the tomb (it seems they take a tour out in the desert before ending up at the Osireion). The Lamentations of Aset (Isis) and Nebt-Het are performed by women impersonating the goddesses, all throughout these three days.

The Night of Vigil:
During this night's reenactment, the enemies of Wesir are slain on the 'banks of Nedyet' (the tomb) and the night ends with the trial of Set before the Divine Tribunal.

The Third Day - Wesir is Reborn:
The god was reborn at dawn and crowned with the crown of Ma'at. The statue of Wesir on the Neshmet barque is brought back in triumph to his temple, followed by the jubilant masses. Purification and installment of the god in his House followed and before the rites were concluded, the 'Raising of the Djed-pillar' took place. This last part was not open to the public.

This incidentally took place around the winter solstice. It is interesting that Peter Goodgame, a Christian, while noting the "familiar 'Resurrection on the Third Day'," passes over it without further comment. But this is typical of cognitive dissonance.

[thirdwave]

Christians have contributed more than enough lies and distortions in the past that I only feel that we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard in being scrupulously accurate to the data. Now, this is what I said: "I am honestly very curious". Even Gerald Massey, who wrote several thick books on Egyptian/Christian parallels, does not say that Horus was crucified—only that the death of Osiris is equivalent to the crucifixion: http://www.masseiana.org/aebk12.htm#868

The tradition of Osiris resurrecting on the third day is attested from antiquity. Here is a summary of the Mystery-Play of the Stela of Ikhernofret (http://www.redmoonrising.com/Giza/SpiritCiv5.htm):



This incidentally took place around the winter solstice. It is interesting that Peter Goodgame, a Christian, while noting the "familiar 'Resurrection on the Third Day'," passes over it without further comment. But this is typical of cognitive dissonance.

I agree that its important to get facts right in order to over come the contiunues smearing that religious groups attempt to preserve there old beliefs... those sometimes with stuff that has been smeared and hidden for a long time.... you only have implications to go on.... and I think for those who are already of the mind set that religion is far from what it seems then people should put these implications in their books... and not just hold off on "facts" ... which most of the time are only permitted by the liars anyway.. who own the "fact sheet" ...

that being said although I have only read a few bit in the book my self... I have had good feed back on it and have been told that it is her strongest work yet.. and she has attempted to address alot of the claims that there are no sources... though do you think that will make a difference? ... as those sources will simply be branded as Freemason liars.

simple as that, but for those who already know that religion is not what it is on face value will be willing to listen to these people.

I don't think this info will ever convert a Christian or who ever... and that is not really the idea I don't think, but its simply to set the record straight and allow people this alternative view point for a broader perspective on things.

And I also don't think its simply a little thing... I think this shows the extent of mass mind control and how it has been used for a very very long time... and how religion its self can not only manipulate people but also reality... it has been used to alter human nature.

[uncia]

Akhenaten supposedly started the first religion that worshiped one god, aton/the sun, and supposedly atonism is where judaism, christianity, and islam come from. they're kind of like branches on the tree of atonism. I definitely think it's possible.

Not probable though .....
Deu 4:16 Lest ye corrupt [yourselves], and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female.
.
.
4:19 And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, [even] all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

[drakul]

I agree that its important to get facts right in order to over come the contiunues smearing that religious groups attempt to preserve there old beliefs... those sometimes with stuff that has been smeared and hidden for a long time.... you only have implications to go on.... and I think for those who are already of the mind set that religion is far from what it seems then people should put these implications in their books... and not just hold off on "facts" ... which most of the time are only permitted by the liars anyway.. who own the "fact sheet" ...

that being said although I have only read a few bit in the book my self... I have had good feed back on it and have been told that it is her strongest work yet.. and she has attempted to address alot of the claims that there are no sources... though do you think that will make a difference? ... as those sources will simply be branded as Freemason liars.

simple as that, but for those who already know that religion is not what it is on face value will be willing to listen to these people.

I don't think this info will ever convert a Christian or who ever... and that is not really the idea I don't think, but its simply to set the record straight and allow people this alternative view point for a broader perspective on things.

And I also don't think its simply a little thing... I think this shows the extent of mass mind control and how it has been used for a very very long time... and how religion its self can not only manipulate people but also reality... it has been used to alter human nature.

Gee TW - What if you're NOT a Christian and you still find DM Murdoch's claims that Horus was crucified ludicrous? Seems that anyone who disagrees is immediately pigeon-holed as `Christian Fundie'.

Even ATHEIST groups distrust claims that Horus was crucified, along with other gods of different religions. These claims are based on the book by Kersey Graves - 16 Crucified Saviors pub 1878. Murdoch writes a review supporting Kersey's book on her website.


The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors

Note: the scholarship of Kersey Graves has been questioned by numerous theists and nontheists alike; the inclusion of his `The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors' in the Secular Web's Historical Library does not constitute endorsement by Internet Infidels, Inc. This document was included for historical purposes; readers should be extremely cautious in trusting anything in this book.

http://www.infidels.org/library/

[drakul]

She has 60+ pics and there is an abundance of ancient Egyptian art in cruciform with arms outstretched and it has been right in front of you all along but you didn't know what to look for or you just didn't know what you were looking at!!!!!!!!!!

So Horus with arms outstretched in benediction actually means he was crucified? Because Murdoch says so?

The way Murdoch constantly twists the truth reminds me of her claims about MITHRA being another Christ. Tradition says that Mithra was born of a rock, that he wedded a rock and he sired a rock. But according to Murdoch, Jordan Maxwell and their ilk it was a gawdamn VIRGIN rock!

Seriously. It was a VIRGIN ROCK. Take another example - KRISHNA. Krishna was the EIGHTH child of his parents. But according to Murdoch - Krishna was born of a VIRGIN. To support her claim Murdoch found some unknown Swamiji Tiki Masala to quote that - `ALL women are considered virgins no matter how many children they have'.

Well that's about the only way Murdoch could get out of that one. :D
Ludicrous.

[thirdwave]

Gee TW - What if you're NOT a Christian and you still find DM Murdoch's claims that Horus was crucified ludicrous? Seems that anyone who disagrees is immediately pigeon-holed as `Christian Fundie'.

Not at all, I would say 95% are Christians, like you. the other 5% I would ask them what has lead them to believe that she is oh so wrong... and then I would assess "THIER sources and see ...eeerrr where they come from and I will leave you to guess where... I am also aware of how many Christians (many on this forum) lie and mislead about their Christianity because they feel it is necessary to defend their faith as "we will just judge them" ..yadda yadda...

And they are not her claims... thay are simply what she has researched off other past researchers who have claimed it... And how anyone can think the claims are ludicrous is mind boggling to me... as even with out the extrema similarities there does seem to be quite a trend with these God type people scattered through time, and they all seem to be the real ones :rolleyes:


Even ATHEIST groups distrust claims that Horus was crucified, probebly only when they are trying to tell people that Horus was also a myth :rolleyes: ..nice try.


Murdoch writes a review supporting Kersey's book on her website.

you have not even read her book, hence you are prepared to talk rubbish if you must.



Note: the scholarship of Kersey Graves has been questioned by numerous theists and nontheists alike; the inclusion of his `The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors' in the Secular Web's Historical Library does not constitute endorsement by Internet Infidels, Inc. This document was included for historical purposes; readers should be extremely cautious in trusting anything in this book.

So you like the others guy review of hers, but not hers .. and i care because?


So question!! ...question away!!

But allow others to do the same!... you did not right the story of Horus...know no one who did... and was not their, there for you only know what you have been taught... you choose to believe one lesson and dismiss the other... good for you...

I believe Horus and Jesus are the same...

[drakul]

Murdoch claims Mithra was born of a Virgin. Well OK maybe Mithra was born of a rock, but it must have been a VIRGIN ROCK!!!

ohmahgawd :D

* Mithra born of a `Virgin' rock -


http://books.google.com/books?id=M8242EovxCEC&pg=PA79&lpg=PA79&dq=Mithra+born+of+a+rock&source=bl&ots=7LEWym-cct&sig=B4iPB8lA7Y8vXGTRgFyWeWLr3h8&hl=en&ei=dX8MSrWNB5io8gSe-bnQDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4


* Murdoch claims Krishna was born of a VIRGIN. Well OK maybe he was the 8th child of his parents, but according to Murdoch it doesn't matter HOW MANY many children a woman has, she's still a VIRGIN!!!

Could her claims get any more ludicrous? :D

[1977]

Speaking of Mithra, here's a good collection of all the mentions of the god in antiquity: http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/mithras/index.htm :)

It seems that the original Persian Mithra did have a virgin birth tradition, but things are so muddled with Christianity that I in no way vouch for this source: http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Religions/iranian/Mithraism/mithra.htm

One such man by the name of Methr or Mehr or Mir appeared in Eastern Iran in the third century BCE, and he was hailed as the expected saviour or Sosyant, and the religion he founded spread all over the ancient world from the British Isles to Japan, South to the confines of the Sahara desert, down to southern Arabia, and the Indian sub-continent. It was the official religion of the two rival powers of the ancient world, the Parthian and the Roman empires for half a millennium.

The Saviour was born in the middle of the night between Saturday and Sunday, 24th and 25th of December, 272 BCE, and according to those who believed in Him from an Immaculate (Anahid) Virgin (Xosidhag) somewhere not far from lake Hamin, Sistan, Lived for 64 years among men, and ascended to His Father Ahura Mazda in 208 BCE

[thirdwave]

Murdoch claims Mithra was born of a Virgin. Well OK maybe Mithra was born of a rock, but it must have been a VIRGIN ROCK!!!

ohmahgawd :D

* Mithra born of a `Virgin' rock -


http://books.google.com/books?id=M8242EovxCEC&pg=PA79&lpg=PA79&dq=Mithra+born+of+a+rock&source=bl&ots=7LEWym-cct&sig=B4iPB8lA7Y8vXGTRgFyWeWLr3h8&hl=en&ei=dX8MSrWNB5io8gSe-bnQDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4


* Murdoch claims Krishna was born of a VIRGIN. Well OK maybe he was the 8th child of his parents, but according to Murdoch it doesn't matter HOW MANY many children a woman has, she's still a VIRGIN!!!

Could her claims get any more ludicrous? :D


you see all you are doing is re affirming what you have been taught... nothing more.... and laughing at what goes completely over your head.

but when you hearde a story about a women who gave birth to a child without even having sex... its not funny ..its true!

when you hear about him walk on water.. no joke.. its true, when you hear about him turning water into wine.. no joke its all true... rising from the dead... all true.... feeding thousands of hungry followers with a small basket of fish and bread...All true....

none of that is ludicrous.. even though you only know about it from a book around 2000 years old...

that is all good and truthful for you...

look deeper into other "gods" and how they have parallels with Jesus... and its a joke!

LOL

The simple fact is.... once you can understand the the story of Jesus is not a real life story... it is just a symbolic story then you see how the other stories become quite clear...

I predict in the next 10 years this info will be undeniable.

[drakul]

you see all you are doing is re affirming what you have been taught... nothing more.... and laughing at what goes completely over your head.

but when you hearde a story about a women who gave birth to a child without even having sex... its not funny ..its true!

when you hear about him walk on water.. no joke.. its true, when you hear about him turning water into wine.. no joke its all true... rising from the dead... all true.... feeding thousands of hungry followers with a small basket of fish and bread...All true....

none of that is ludicrous.. even though you only know about it from a book around 2000 years old...

that is all good and truthful for you...

look deeper into other "gods" and how they have parallels with Jesus... and its a joke!


LOL

The simple fact is.... once you can understand the the story of Jesus is not a real life story... it is just a symbolic story then you see how the other stories become quite clear...

I predict in the next 10 years this info will be undeniable.

When did I ever say I believe everything that's in the Bible? The Old Testament God Jehovah of blood sacrifice, revenge and war is not even the same god as the god of Jesus. The worst mistake the early Christians made was by including the OT in the Bible, now we're tied to Israhell to the tune of billions $$$$ a year and picking and fightiing their wars in the Middle East for them.

Find me one post of mine where I said that I believe Jesus was conceived via a virgin ala immaculate conception. Or that Jesus walked on water. You are just putting words into my mouth.

OTH DM Murdoch is making ridiculous claims without ANY PRIMARY EVIDENCE (you know as in - PROOF), claims that Horus was crucified etc. etc. All just to fit her hidden (Masonic/Theosophist) agenda.

BTW I have Murdoch's book - Christ Conspiracy - Very Disappointing. She quotes infamous high level Luciferian Freemasons like Albert Pike, Churchward, Higgins and Helena Blavatsky and calls them `reference sources' - to prove her points.

[vinnyharris]

drakul post 74 "That pic of the Orpheus amulet has been used in Theosophist books for YEARS since at least 1935. It was used as the COVER for the book the Jesus Mysteries by Anthony Freke in 1998. It was also shown in the video Zeitgeist - so don't pretend this is some new and exciting revelation exclusive to Murdoch's book."

Acharya doesn't EVER use that Orpheus amulet image, so that's another straw man. You continue to lie and toss out straw men, because you don't know Acharya's work, even though you dishonestly pretend to. If you did, you would know she specifically states that nobody's claiming Horus was thrown to the ground and nailed to a cross. She makes the case that the god on a cross or in cruciform was a common theme in pre-Christian mythology - that's the case. Everything else you toss up is a straw man, because, again, you don't know her work.

[vinnyharris]

1977 post 80 "Even Gerald Massey, who wrote several thick books on Egyptian/Christian parallels, does not say that Horus was crucified"

Actually, he does, because he distinguishes between throwing a person down and nailing them to a cross, and having a god related to or in the shape of a cross. Massey says in "Ancient Egypt" (vol. 1, 751):

"...In the Christian Iconography, as Didtron shows, *Christ and the cross are identical*, as were Horus and the Tat." He goes on to explain how Horus and the Tat-cross are the same thing. That's what Acharya does in her book - she shows how Horus was "Stauros" and was pictured in cruciform. If you don't understand the development of religious themes, you won't get it at all and you'll be lost.

Acharya's chapter on Horus "crucified" in CIE is 40 pages long! She includes quotes from Egyptologists, the Catholic Encyclopedia, the Church fathers, Christian ministers, Gnostic writings, Plato, the Bible, Egyptian traditions, Joseph Campbell and even the Pope! She's even got a pre-Christian Egyptian image of Horus on the cross of the vernal equinox between two "thieves." Again, if you don't know what you're looking at or what to look for you'd never know it was right in front of you.

The point is not whether or not Horus was thrown to the ground and nailed to a cross - Acharya denies that that is in Egyptian mythology. The point is, was the god on a cross or in a cross shape popular long before Christianity made it pretty much the basis of their religion? Acharya shows that it WAS popular, in ancient Egypt long before Jesus supposedly lived. Jesus getting thrown to the ground and nailed to a cross was Christianity's way of borrowing the concept and attempting to historicize it.

[vinnyharris]

drakul post 84 "So Horus with arms outstretched in benediction actually means he was crucified? Because Murdoch says so?"

Seriously? I already address that rhetoric in post 66. I see now that you're only here to spread smears & rhetorical talking points - so long as it smears Acharya. More to the underlying point here - you don't really know all that much Egypt even though you claim to be an "amateur Egyptologist" in post 56. I asked you - "What qualifications, formal training or credentials have you? What linguistic skills have you?" and you've skirted around answering that everytime. Why? What are you afraid of?

drakul post 84 "But according to Murdoch, Jordan Maxwell and their ilk it was a gawdamn VIRGIN rock! Seriously. It was a VIRGIN ROCK. Take another example - KRISHNA. Krishna was the EIGHTH child of his parents. But according to Murdoch - Krishna was born of a VIRGIN. To support her claim Murdoch found some unknown Swamiji Tiki Masala to quote that - `ALL women are considered virgins no matter how many children they have'. Well that's about the only way Murdoch could get out of that one. Ludicrous."

First of all, you constantly spell her name wrong, so you can't even get that fact right. Secondly, what is ludicrous is your absolute inability to understand mythology.

Ever heard of "virgin earth?" It's a commonly used phrase. And, guess what, Mary has been associated with the "virgin earth" since ancient times:

*Mary, the Virgin Earth*

"From the ancient tradition of the Church Fathers, Isaac draws a parallel between the virgin earth of paradise, from which Adam was formed, and Mary Ever-Virgin, in whose womb the second Adam took flesh..."

Luigi Gambero, *Mary in the Middle Ages*, p. 171.

There's also the phrase "virgin rock." Acharya talks about the connection between the words "mater," meaning "mother," and "material," i.e., MATTER. She's not the first to discuss this GNOSTIC idea, but you don't want anyone else to talk about these interesting subjects, because you yourself are so ignorant.

Also, another tradition says Mithra was born of the goddess Anahita, who is also supposedly a virgin mother. Again, you don't know what you're talking about, so all you can do is heckle and make snide comments out of ignorance.

And Acharya's work on the virginity of Krishna's mother is much more extensive than what you posted here, but we've already established that you don't know what you're talking about. Krishna's mother is a mythical character, and in mythology, it doesn't matter how many children the mother has, she is still a virgin. Mary also supposedly had several children, but she stays a virgin too. Again, you just don't have any clue about mythology but you keep blathering - and that's what's ludicrous.

Was Krishna's Mother a Virgin?
http://forums.truthbeknown.com/viewtopic.php?t=1597

[tracker]

to me its all a load of bllks !

one fiction replaced by a re-run

a repeat !

a useless and going nowhere aging story that is proving to be more fraud as time goes by .

donald duck is more of a happy story .

its all the same .


its mind control !

[vinnyharris]

drakul post 83 "Even ATHEIST groups distrust claims that Horus was crucified, along with other gods of different religions. These claims are based on the book by Kersey Graves - 16 Crucified Saviors pub 1878. Murdoch writes a review supporting Kersey's book on her website.

The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors

Note: the scholarship of Kersey Graves has been questioned by numerous theists and nontheists alike; the inclusion of his `The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors' in the Secular Web's Historical Library does not constitute endorsement by Internet Infidels, Inc. This document was included for historical purposes; readers should be extremely cautious in trusting anything in this book."

Uh, actually, when one checks into that one sees that it's no "ATHEIST group" at all but one person - Richard Carrier who hasn't actually studied Kersey Graves work (Nor has Carrier ever actually read anything by Acharya). He states at the top of his article:

"[Editor's note: This is a conflation of three responses which were made by Richard Carrier to feedback and e-mail involving questions about the scholarhip[sic] of Kersey Graves, in particular, and about scholarship, in general, in the subject area about which Graves concerned himself in The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors.]"
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/graves.html

So Carrier decided this after 3 e-mail exchanges! And it's fair to point out to people to be skeptical of Kersey Graves but people like drakul tend to blow it out of proportion when it suites their agenda. The *ONLY* person I'm aware of who has actually INVESTIGATED WHERE K. GRAVES WAS GETTING HIS INFO IS ACHARYA. She is the only person who has tracked down where his info was coming from tracing it back to its sources.

"Beddru is Beddou is Buddha: Is Kersey Graves guilty of fabrication in his seminal work The World's 16 Crucified Saviors?"
http://www.truthbeknown.com/beddru.html

LOL, Acharya's forum even has an FAQ addressing the question about atheists:

"Do atheists disagree with Acharya's basic premise?"
http://forums.truthbeknown.com/viewtopic.php?t=1149&start=30

[drakul]

Acharya doesn't EVER use that Orpheus amulet image, so that's another straw man. You continue to lie and toss out straw men, because you don't know Acharya's work, even though you dishonestly pretend to. If you did, you would know she specifically states that nobody's claiming Horus was thrown to the ground and nailed to a cross. She makes the case that the god on a cross or in cruciform was a common theme in pre-Christian mythology - that's the case. Everything else you toss up is a straw man, because, again, you don't know her work.

The Orpheus amulet, erroneously labled as Dionysus, was used in the religion section of Zeitgeist, which Murdoch edited. Is that the extent of her scholarship?

I addressed the Orpheus amulet because Third Wave posted it here as an example of Zeitgeist/Murdoch's research on supposedly crucified savior gods.

And since you are in such close touch with Murdoch and know all about her work - ask her why she uses the crudest possible copies of drawings as evidence for her claims in her book The Christ Conspiracy??? Very disappointing.

These drawings are just vague, blurry copies of copies of copies taken from books by other theosophist/masons. You would think that Murdoch, being a supposedly verified, registered archeologist who supposedly spent 2 years combing the hills and dales of Greece, would have lavishly illustrated her book with photos to prove her points. But she fails to include one single photograph showing carvings, wall paintings or statuary of Dionysus/Bacchus, Heracles, Zeus, or Apollo, etc as EVIDENCE of her claims that these gods are clear pre - Christian prototypes of Jesus.

I wonder why?

[1977]

"...In the Christian Iconography, as Didtron shows, *Christ and the cross are identical*, as were Horus and the Tat." He goes on to explain how Horus and the Tat-cross are the same thing. That's what Acharya does in her book - she shows how Horus was "Stauros" and was pictured in cruciform. If you don't understand the development of religious themes, you won't get it at all and you'll be lost.
I and am well aware of the Valentinian Stauros-Horos connection, and even the possibility of Plato's World-Soul being "Horus of the Two Horizons". In fact, I'm very glad that she mentioned it. I'm going to quote from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentinianism#Horos) here, as I contributed to this section (part of it is from the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica):

A figure entirely peculiar to Valentinian Gnosticism is that of Horos (the Limiter). The name is perhaps an echo of the Egyptian Horus, who, according to Francis Legge, generally appeared in Alexandria "with hawk's head and human body dressed in the cuirass and boots of a Roman gendarme or stationarius, which would be appropriate enough for a sentinel or guard."[20]

The task of Horos is to separate the fallen Æons from the upper world of Æons. At the same time he becomes a kind of world-creative power, who in this capacity helps to construct an ordered world out of Sophia and her passions. He is also called Stauros (cross), and we frequently meet with references to the figure of Stauros. Speculations about the Stauros are older than Christianity, and a Platonic conception may have been at work here. Plato had already stated that the World-Soul revealed itself in the form of the letter Chi (X); by which he meant that figure described in the heavens by the intersecting orbits of the sun and the planetary ecliptic. Since through this double orbit all the movements of the heavenly powers are determined, so all "becoming" and all life depend on it, and thus we can understand the statement that the World-Soul appears in the form of an X, or a cross.

The cross can also stand for the wondrous Æon on whom depends the ordering and life of the world, and thus Horos-Stauros appears here as the first redeemer of Sophia from her passions, and as the orderer of the creation of the world which now begins. Naturally, then, the figure of Horos-Stauros was often assimilated to that of the Christian Redeemer. We possibly find echoes of this in the Gospel of Peter, where the Cross itself is depicted as speaking and even floating out of the tomb.


So is there a connection there? Absolutely. And Massey knew it. What was questioned was the literal act of being "thrown to the ground and nailed to a cross," which was what I was innocently curious about in the first place.

[miracles]

Seriously? I already address that rhetoric in post 66. I see now that you're only here to spread smears & rhetorical talking points - so long as it smears Acharya. More to the underlying point here - you don't really know all that much Egypt even though you claim to be an "amateur Egyptologist" in post 56. I asked you - "What qualifications, formal training or credentials have you? What linguistic skills have you?" and you've skirted around answering that everytime. Why? What are you afraid of?



First of all, you constantly spell her name wrong, so you can't even get that fact right. Secondly, what is ludicrous is your absolute inability to understand mythology.

Ever heard of "virgin earth?" It's a commonly used phrase. And, guess what, Mary has been associated with the "virgin earth" since ancient times:

*Mary, the Virgin Earth*

"From the ancient tradition of the Church Fathers, Isaac draws a parallel between the virgin earth of paradise, from which Adam was formed, and Mary Ever-Virgin, in whose womb the second Adam took flesh..."

Luigi Gambero, *Mary in the Middle Ages*, p. 171.

There's also the phrase "virgin rock." Acharya talks about the connection between the words "mater," meaning "mother," and "material," i.e., MATTER. She's not the first to discuss this GNOSTIC idea, but you don't want anyone else to talk about these interesting subjects, because you yourself are so ignorant.

Also, another tradition says Mithra was born of the goddess Anahita, who is also supposedly a virgin mother. Again, you don't know what you're talking about, so all you can do is heckle and make snide comments out of ignorance.

And Acharya's work on the virginity of Krishna's mother is much more extensive than what you posted here, but we've already established that you don't know what you're talking about. Krishna's mother is a mythical character, and in mythology, it doesn't matter how many children the mother has, she is still a virgin. Mary also supposedly had several children, but she stays a virgin too. Again, you just don't have any clue about mythology but you keep blathering - and that's what's ludicrous.

Was Krishna's Mother a Virgin?
http://forums.truthbeknown.com/viewtopic.php?t=1597

Words like "Ancient" "Egyptian" "Ancient Egyptian" "godess" and such like do not neccessarily predate the bible and or Christianity. I find the arguement that the Christian Jesus Figure has been solen form paganism to be quite humorous, it used to annoy me, now its just funny. It has been proven that the mystery schools and mystery religions have been stolen form the true followers of God and His word, not the other way around.

It is an illuminati red herring. Any similarities are merely plagurisms or countrefeits ably estabished by satan, the enemy of Christ. He knows that there is no other name under heaven by which we may be saved, so he has to do something to keep people away from this name IE discredit the name. Open your eyes!!!!

[thirdwave]

The Orpheus amulet, erroneously labled as Dionysus, was used in the religion section of Zeitgeist, which Murdoch edited. Is that the extent of her scholarship?


Murdoch had nothing to do with Z other than provide the guy with a small book containing some of her works that back up the claims the Z film made... she had nothing to do with the making of the film... so that's bullshit....


I addressed the Orpheus amulet because Third Wave posted it here as an example of Zeitgeist/Murdoch's research on supposedly crucified saviour gods.

But I gave no impression that it was from any of her books... I asked you what you thought of it while i was implying AS's works is not the only think that you can look at and the amulet has not been debunked anyway.. it has been conveniently smeared as usual.


And since you are in such close touch with Murdoch and know all about her work - ask her why she uses the crudest possible copies of drawings as evidence for her claims in her book The Christ Conspiracy??? Very disappointing.

She is on my space, why not ask her your self...? I think the only thing you are disappointed in is how your religion is being exposed as not being the super hero movie you believe in so much...


These drawings are just vague, blurry copies of copies of copies taken from books by other theosophist/masons. more bullshit.

You would think that Murdoch, being a supposedly verified, registered archeologist who supposedly spent 2 years combing the hills and dales of Greece, would have lavishly illustrated her book with photos to prove her points.
As she has done, with more imporantly description text on sources and research to explain her correct claimes that you dont even understand anyway...

But she fails to include one single photograph showing carvings, wall paintings or statuary of Dionysus/Bacchus, Heracles, Zeus, or Apollo, etc as EVIDENCE of her claims that these gods are clear pre - Christian prototypes of Jesus.

I wonder why?

Where is one of Jesus... ?

It is ironic that after Christians through out history have destroyed temples and other sacred sites in order to defeat any opposition to their faith.. today we have them demand carvings and stuff to prove stuff which point out the Jesus story is mythological..

After criticising her other books and asking for explanations..you have not even read this one and you are already firing out all the bullshit.....

[thirdwave]

So is there a connection there? Absolutely. And Massey knew it. What was questioned was the literal act of being "thrown to the ground and nailed to a cross," which was what I was innocently curious about in the first place.

for a start, would that not depend on if you believed that Jesus was a man who was physically nailed to a cross anyway? ..

[thirdwave]

Words like "Ancient" "Egyptian" "Ancient Egyptian" "godess" and such like do not neccessarily predate the bible and or Christianity.

lol, what an earth are you talking about... if you are refering to the NT then it predated it about 3000 years, OT about 2000.... Im not sure what you are talking about..


I find the arguement that the Christian Jesus Figure has been solen form paganism to be quite humorous, it used to annoy me, now its just funny. It has been proven that the mystery schools and mystery religions have been stolen form the true followers of God and His word, not the other way around.

LOL, im your in your little bubble there you are spot on....


It is an illuminati red herring. Any similarities are merely plagurisms or countrefeits ably estabished by satan, the enemy of Christ. He knows that there is no other name under heaven by which we may be saved, so he has to do something to keep people away from this name IE discredit the name. Open your eyes!!!!

Christianity and religion as we know it are now in a day and age where the truth is shining through them... those who could always smell a turd can now see the turd... the "illuminaiti" can no longer control peoples will through religious lies and guilt trips.. they are now relying on political financial and military control .. with technology now in their hands.. they now no longer rely on religion to control nearly as much as they used to... at least in the Western world..

The truth in these religions are clearly occult texts with a far more deeper meaning that that of the life of Jesus Christ... this is not to say there were not Guru's in time teaching people about the power of the human mind and soul.. and how free will and love are the most vital ingredient.

for those who want to find truth, they will find it.

[vinnyharris]

First of all, again drakul, you just can't spell her name right, revealing how poor is your own scholarship. You're just a nasty armchair harpie who has nothing else to contribute beyond malicious rhetoric, hatred and smears. I really don't know why this forum allows you and your ugly mentality to dictate things around here.

As another example of your utter inaccuracy, no, Acharya did NOT "edit" Zeitgeist. You just go around hatefully raising up straw men to knock down because you are SOOO jealous of her - you're as transparent as glass. Acharya briefly consulted only on part 1 with someone she really didn't know very well, and what he did outside of her work was up to him. She had NO control over what Peter Joseph decided to edit - it was HIS movie.

"Zeitgeist came into existence as a personal project which was shown in New York as a free public awareness expression. After the event was over, "The Movie" was tossed online with little thought given to a public response. Within a month, the film was getting record views. Months later, the "Final Edition" was completed. In total, the views for "Zeitgeist, The Movie" have exceeded 50,000,000 on Google video alone. Considering the other posts in different formats, along with public screenings, it is estimated that the total world views are well over 100 Million."
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/q&a.htm

"First of all, let me clarify that I was not involved in the creation of ZEITGEIST, other than providing a few images and consulting on Part 1 at the last minute, the result of which was the final, "Official" version. However, my work did serve as a significant inspiration for Part 1. I had no involvement in Parts 2 and 3, and make no comment thereupon in this article."
http://tbknews.blogspot.com/2008/04/zeitgeist-refuted-not.html

[Zeitgeist part 1] "The 25-minute segment was not meant to serve as a thorough scholarly analysis."
http://stellarhousepublishing.com/skeptic-zeitgeist.html

Acharya addresses it again in the first minute of this video:

"ZEITGEIST, Part 1" Debunked? Acharya Responds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_9ZyddjaM4

drakul "These drawings are just vague, blurry copies of copies of copies taken from books by other theosophist/masons."

That's a lie, but you reveal yourself as a Christian apologist, despite your denials, because you're getting that crap from Christian apologist ignoramuses whose only purpose is to tell lies and to smear people with slander and libel in order to shore-up their faith at all costs even if it requires total dishonesty. That's YOUR level.

drakul "You would think that Murdoch, being a supposedly verified, registered archeologist who supposedly spent 2 years combing the hills and dales of Greece, would have lavishly illustrated her book with photos to prove her points. But she fails to include one single photograph showing carvings, wall paintings or statuary of Dionysus/Bacchus, Heracles, Zeus, or Apollo, etc as EVIDENCE of her claims that these gods are clear pre - Christian prototypes of Jesus."

More ad homs from the ignoramus peanut gallery. You really don't know how the process works at all, do you? Sure, she can just waltz into another country and start digging, especially to find artifacts that debunk that country's religious tradition. How utterly absurd. And you don't know her work at all, regardless of your constantly pretending to. She's spent the last decade since Christ Con providing the evidence with 4 books to date totaling nearly 2,000 pages. Until you've actually read "Suns of God" and "Christ in Egypt" from beginning to end your opinion is worthless. Both are 600 page books.

But since you keep skipping my question, your opinion could very well be worthless anyway drakul: "What qualifications, formal training or credentials have you? What linguistic skills have you?" You have yet to give a single valid reason whatsoever why anyone should trust your opinion on these issues.

Stop wasting everyone's time with your ignorant, hateful comments that only reveal how LITTLE you know. I'm disgusted that forums allow the likes of you to run off intelligent discussion of important issues. The fact remains that David Icke himself supports her work - he NEEDS her work to back up his own on this issue and you're just bashing others as if you're in utter fear of Acharya's work, to the point that you cannot allow a civil discussion about it take place. You stalk anyone who has anything positive to say about Acharya's work even though they've actually read it and you clearly have not. All you do is smear Acharya meanwhile, people who actually own her books and know for a fact that you're lying try to set the record straight are forced to suffer your ignorance, hatred and fear. You've already established that fact on your own. Why are you so obsessed with being so utterly dishonest about Acharya's work?

[miracles]

lol, what an earth are you talking about... if you are refering to the NT then it predated it about 3000 years, OT about 2000.... Im not sure what you are talking about..



LOL, im your in your little bubble there you are spot on....



Christianity and religion as we know it are now in a day and age where the truth is shining through them... those who could always smell a turd can now see the turd... the "illuminaiti" can no longer control peoples will through religious lies and guilt trips.. they are now relying on political financial and military control .. with technology now in their hands.. they now no longer rely on religion to control nearly as much as they used to... at least in the Western world..

The truth in these religions are clearly occult texts with a far more deeper meaning that that of the life of Jesus Christ... this is not to say there were not Guru's in time teaching people about the power of the human mind and soul.. and how free will and love are the most vital ingredient.

for those who want to find truth, they will find it.

LOL. They also tired controlling them by martyering millions of believers for not renouncing ther faith. Faced with death, would you renounce what you believe in order to live? I wouldnt talk about turds too much if I where you. Im Irish and some of us pronouce the word third like turd. You are aware the illuminati are creating a one world religion arent you? Not controlling relgion he says, yeah right!. Pull the other one mate. LOL!

[vinnyharris]

miracles "You are aware the illuminati are creating a one world religion arent you?"

From where I stand, it looks like Islam is becoming the New World Order

Hawaii lawmakers back the creation of 'Islam Day'

HONOLULU — Hawaii's state Senate overwhelmingly approved a bill Wednesday to celebrate "Islam Day" — over the objections of a few lawmakers who said they didn't want to honor a religion connected to Sept. 11, 2001. The Senate's two Republicans argued that a minority of Islamic extremists have killed many innocents in terrorist attacks.

"I recall radical Islamists around the world cheering the horrors of 9/11. That is the day all civilized people of all religions should remember," said Republican Sen. Fred Hemmings to the applause of more than 100 people gathered in the Senate to oppose a separate issue — same-sex civil unions.
The resolution to proclaim Sept. 24, 2009, as Islam Day passed the Senate on a 22-3 vote. It had previously passed the House."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jVdzTzS1jB4Ub5CxvFnH0Jnma9aAD9813Q8G0

If the US gov't is going to have "Islam Day" then how soon can we expect "Child Rapist Day", "Jim Jones Day" , "Charles Manson Day" and "Hitler Day" ???

MUHAMMAD married Aisha at 6 years old and had SEX with her when she was 9 = child rape. Islam is a cult same as Christianity. Oh which reminds me of those 11,000 REPORTED child molestation cases by Catholic Priests.

Muslim Demographics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

Islamification: an Infidel Warning!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCiGeSbgDbc

"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth."

-- Omar M. Ahmad, founder of Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR)

[miracles]

From where I stand, it looks like Islam is becoming the New World Order



If the US gov't is going to have "Islam Day" then how soon can we expect "Child Rapist Day", "Jim Jones Day" , "Charles Manson Day" and "Hitler Day" ???

MUHAMMAD married Aisha at 6 years old and had SEX with her when she was 9 = child rape. Islam is a cult same as Christianity. Oh which reminds me of those 11,000 REPORTED child molestation cases by Catholic Priests.

Muslim Demographics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

Islamification: an Infidel Warning!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCiGeSbgDbc

"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth."

-- Omar M. Ahmad, founder of Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR)

The united nations will be behind the ine world religion in my opinion via their "framework for interreligious cooperation" see link.
.
http://upf.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=257&Itemid=166

[thirdwave]

LOL. They also tired controlling them by martyering millions of believers for not renouncing ther faith. Faced with death, would you renounce what you believe in order to live? of course they did... because they could.

since when have they not supported killing people... and it was never a case of "killing Christians" it was a case of Christians killing each other.... the perfect ingredient.... all still believed the bullshit.


I wouldnt talk about turds too much if I where you. Im Irish and some of us pronouce the word third like turd.

but im talking abouyt the stuff that is brown and smells bad... not the word thats linked with 3 :)

You are aware the illuminati are creating a one world religion arent you? Not controlling relgion he says, yeah right!. Pull the other one mate. LOL!

Well they are planning to control a one world religion at some stage which explains why they are less focused on continuing to up hold the Christians bulls shit story... However, within the mainstream there is nothing close to a 1 world religion as yet... other than them dismantling their previous structures...

my feelings are there one world religion is pretty much been around for a while in the religions we see today... as they will never want to unite peoples spiritual values anyway... unless it was to worship them.

[thirdwave]

From where I stand, it looks like Islam is becoming the New World Order



this is the part of AS work I dont really get down with.. she seems to imply that the muslim religion is the big no no...

well yea we know they are all bullshit.. but I think clearly the MSM is making them out to be terrorist scum who want the west to burn...

really? ,,, but does it not have anything to do with "Muslim" countries being bombed to shit by "Christian" countries?

not saying either are better than the other... but its clear the West are being taught to view Islam as some imposing enemy... when it is not really the case...

our government are the ones that bring it here and there are willing Muslims coming as its better that staying in the shit hole we have left them with...

all religions are as full as shit as the next... NONE are any worse that the other IMO...

[miracles]

of course they did... because they could.

since when have they not supported killing people... and it was never a case of "killing Christians" it was a case of Christians killing each other.... the perfect ingredient.... all still believed the bullshit.

Right like all the people who claim to be christians today and kill people.

but im talking abouyt the stuff that is brown and smells bad... not the word thats linked with 3 :)Heh!


Well they are planning to control a one world religion at some stage which explains why they are less focused on continuing to up hold the Christians bulls shit story... However, within the mainstream there is nothing close to a 1 world religion as yet... other than them dismantling their previous structures...

my feelings are there one world religion is pretty much been around for a while in the religions we see today... as they will never want to unite peoples spiritual values anyway... unless it was to worship them.

I suppose you see the bible as document written by them to control us aswell then.

They are doing everything in their power to discredit the bible and Jesus. Your thread topic is an example of that, your believing and disseminating their lies for them. Every thread in this religious forum is evidence of another sucker buying that bollocks very day. Have you looked at that UN link? That's exactly what they are trying to do, unite people with different spiritual values.

http://upf.org/index.php?option=com_...257&Itemid=166

[thirdwave]

Right like all the people who claim to be christians today and kill people.

Heh!


Yes... but lets not pretend they used to kill people for believing in Jesus... as thats bullshit... they used to kill pagans... they delivered the bible to you... no one else.


I suppose you see the bible as document written by them to control us aswell then.

Of course..... no doubt in my mind.

They are doing everything in their power to discredit the bible and Jesus.

No they are not... they are simply ceasing from useing it as the main tool of western mind control... and are not so bothered about people seeing through it any more... they no longer need to to control the masses as much as they used to...


Your thread topic is an example of that, your believing and disseminating their lies for them.

Well for a start your "them" comment shows the level of ignorence you come from as Murdock is not "them" ... and the other Authors are not the people who kill people today... this is just fabrication you are useing...

and they do not contain lies, they contain knowledge .. and education.

not that a little common sense to begin with will lead you on track anyway.


Every thread in this religious forum is evidence of another sucker buying that bollocks very day.
Today we are living in times of awakening... and this is why all religions are being torn to bits... it is not even difficult to do. In the past people have been unbelievable suckers in believing in the false face the bible has and we see on this forum concerned Christians panicking about THEIR FAITH and trying to make others up hold it.


Have you looked at that UN link? That's exactly what they are trying to do, unite people with different spiritual values.
I don't believe the elite want any of us spiritual unless it is to worship them and their cause...

they are more than aware that many of us are going though spiritual change so of course they will try to effect that... but implying that are trying to keep us away from Jesus as he is going to save the day is laughable IMO.

[drakul]

Murdock is perfect example of Orwellian doublespeak -

* Crucified does not mean crucified but cruciform. However i write in my books that Horus was crucified even though I agree Horus was not really crucified. He was not thrown down and nailed to a cross, but i did find this one pictograph which shows Horus with his arms outstretched (you have to cough up money for my book to see it). Horus was not nailed to a cross but he was crucified because holding out your arms in cruciform position means the same thing..

Translation - 2+2=3.

* Virgin does not mean virgin like the dictionary says because the word virgin actually means that a woman can still have as many children as she wants and still be a virgin, like Devaki, Virgin mother of Krishna (8th child). Even a ROCK can still be a virgin, as in Mithra's case. Haven't you ever heard of the VIRGIN ROCK you idiot?


Translation - 1+1 also = 3.


etc etc etc :D

[1977]

^^^ See, why can't we just say what we mean in the first place?

Now, this one is interesting.

http://books.google.com/books?id=PXv_-ruuLC4C&pg=PA48&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U3bsy4n98MK2JXU5J0lo8Zzb7HxWA&ci=133%2C519%2C810%2C544&edge=1" border="0" alt="Text not available" (http://books.google.com/books?id=PXv_-ruuLC4C&dq=osiris%20resurrection%20wallis%20budge&as_brr=1&pg=PA48&ci=133,519,810,544&source=bookclip)

"The accusation that Christians practiced onolatry (worship of donkey)," notes the Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexamenos_graffito), "seems to have been common at the time. Tertullian, writing in the late second or early third century, reports that Christians, along with Jews, were accused of worshipping a deity with the head of an ass." Even Plutarch mentions that Set was believed to be the god of the Jews.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0b/AlexGraffito.jpg/450px-AlexGraffito.jpg

[drakul]

[QUOTE]^^^ See, why can't we just say what we mean in the first place?


Exactly. Murdock and her ilk render words with no meaning. Trying to talk logically with them is like hearing US Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi claim she didn't know water boarding is torture!!!

Now, this one is interesting.

http://books.google.com/books?id=PXv_-ruuLC4C&pg=PA48&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U3bsy4n98MK2JXU5J0lo8Zzb7HxWA&ci=133%2C519%2C810%2C544&edge=1" border="0" alt="Text not available" (http://books.google.com/books?id=PXv_-ruuLC4C&dq=osiris%20resurrection%20wallis%20budge&as_brr=1&pg=PA48&ci=133,519,810,544&source=bookclip)

"The accusation that Christians practiced onolatry (worship of donkey)," notes the Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexamenos_graffito), "seems to have been common at the time. Tertullian, writing in the late second or early third century, reports that Christians, along with Jews, were accused of worshipping a deity with the head of an ass." Even Plutarch mentions that Set was believed to be the god of the Jews.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0b/AlexGraffito.jpg/450px-AlexGraffito.jpg


You claim Christians worshipped an ass (i.e. Jesus was an ass) and show us a crude, vague copy of an Egyptian pictograph. Is this even genuine, what is the Egyptian source for it? In any case it illustrates nothing about christianity, only Egyptology. The one below it is so sketchy and crude it is meaningless.

[thirdwave]

Murdock is perfect example of Orwellian doublespeak -

* Crucified does not mean crucified but cruciform. However i write in my books that Horus was crucified even though I agree Horus was not really crucified. He was not thrown down and nailed to a cross, but i did find this one pictograph which shows Horus with his arms outstretched (you have to cough up money for my book to see it). Horus was not nailed to a cross but he was crucified because holding out your arms in cruciform position means the same thing..

Translation - 2+2=3.

* Virgin does not mean virgin like the dictionary says because the word virgin actually means that a woman can still have as many children as she wants and still be a virgin, like Devaki, Virgin mother of Krishna (8th child). Even a ROCK can still be a virgin, as in Mithra's case. Haven't you ever heard of the VIRGIN ROCK you idiot?


Translation - 1+1 also = 3.


etc etc etc :D

*watching it all go wwaaaaay over your head.. *

[fist fury]

The Bible itself states that YHWH was only one of many competing gods. He was merely the "greatest". Jesus can be conidered a diety, any human that goes to earth is considered one as well. Not to mention saints and angels.

Polytheism never really went away, just the degrees varied.

Other societies were more monotheistic, like the ancient Turkic religions, they had one prime diety and spirits hence it was easier for them to accept Allah.

So please, dont act as if Christianism was one of a kind event. Its just a matter of paying attention.

[miracles]

Yes... but lets not pretend they used to kill people for believing in Jesus... as thats bullshit... they used to kill pagans... they delivered the bible to you... no one else.



Of course..... no doubt in my mind.



No they are not... they are simply ceasing from useing it as the main tool of western mind control... and are not so bothered about people seeing through it any more... they no longer need to to control the masses as much as they used to...



Well for a start your "them" comment shows the level of ignorence you come from as Murdock is not "them" ... and the other Authors are not the people who kill people today... this is just fabrication you are useing...

and they do not contain lies, they contain knowledge .. and education.

not that a little common sense to begin with will lead you on track anyway.


Today we are living in times of awakening... and this is why all religions are being torn to bits... it is not even difficult to do. In the past people have been unbelievable suckers in believing in the false face the bible has and we see on this forum concerned Christians panicking about THEIR FAITH and trying to make others up hold it.


I don't believe the elite want any of us spiritual unless it is to worship them and their cause...

they are more than aware that many of us are going though spiritual change so of course they will try to effect that... but implying that are trying to keep us away from Jesus as he is going to save the day is laughable IMO.

In my opinion, your views are new age heathen paganism, as are the bulk of opinions and views on these religious threads. Being "awakened" hah, thats new age hokus pukus that term. Why be awkend to the reality of the evil going on and denying the solution? You may aswell stay asleep!

[thirdwave]

In my opinion, your views are new age heathen paganism, as are the bulk of opinions and views on these religious threads. Being "awakened" hah, thats new age hokus pukus that term. Why be awkend to the reality of the evil going on and denying the solution? You may aswell stay asleep!

It is not hokus pokus.. the bible is... we can see there is an awakening going on by this very movement where this forum has come from... one with their eyes open can see the illusions are now coming down.. from financial to religious to everything else... its going on despite the prophecy's that one can believe in or not..

my views may well be paganism as that very word is simply a word used for spiritual people that are not associated with an organised religion... "New Ager" and a "person into all that hokus pokus" are other terms used...

and it is hilarious that one who can brand paganism as Hokus Pokus can support the story of Jesus as something genuine lol... perticulary when one can very much depict Jesus as a Pagan him self!

Also IMO to say that denying Jesus is denying the solution is extremely ignorant to the history of the elite...

If man kind require Jesus to save it from a NWO prison, then IMO it in fact deserves to be in that prison... and to assume one deserves freedom simply because of the acceptance of another's power and light is the acceptance that man kind have in fact never even meant to be free...

I have no religion.. no set belief system.. and I worship no god... however, through my research, the most resonating stuff and outlook I feel most parallel to, is the true Luciferian philosophy.

And Im not talking about the usual bullshit thrown out there by ignorant people who are only here to defend and worship what ever their god says or what ever their reality threshold will permit. I am talking about Lucifer, man kinds hero, the process of being spiritually set free and being the true soul you are with no oppression from anyone or anything else.. where freedom is the law.

[miracles]

It is not hokus pokus.. the bible is... we can see there is an awakening going on by this very movement where this forum has come from... one with their eyes open can see the illusions are now coming down.. from financial to religious to everything else... its going on despite the prophecy's that one can believe in or not..

my views may well be paganism as that very word is simply a word used for spiritual people that are not associated with an organised religion... "New Ager" and a "person into all that hokus pokus" are other terms used...

and it is hilarious that one who can brand paganism as Hokus Pokus can support the story of Jesus as something genuine lol... perticulary when one can very much depict Jesus as a Pagan him self!

Also IMO to say that denying Jesus is denying the solution is extremely ignorant to the history of the elite...

If man kind require Jesus to save it from a NWO prison, then IMO it in fact deserves to be in that prison... and to assume one deserves freedom simply because of the acceptance of another's power and light is the acceptance that man kind have in fact never even meant to be free...

I have no religion.. no set belief system.. and I worship no god... however, through my research, the most resonating stuff and outlook I feel most parallel to, is the true Luciferian philosophy.

And Im not talking about the usual bullshit thrown out there by ignorant people who are only here to defend and worship what ever their god says or what ever their reality threshold will permit. I am talking about Lucifer, man kinds hero, the process of being spiritually set free and being the true soul you are with no oppression from anyone or anything else.. where freedom is the law.

Oh right that bloke in the garden of Eden in the bible you learned about from the book you don't believe in and the prohecy that predicted what is happening now 2000 years ago. Hokus pokus!

case closed :D

[1977]

You claim Christians worshipped an ass (i.e. Jesus was an ass) and show us a crude, vague copy of an Egyptian pictograph. Is this even genuine, what is the Egyptian source for it? In any case it illustrates nothing about christianity, only Egyptology. The one below it is so sketchy and crude it is meaningless.
You might be tilting at some egregious windmills here. The image, as can be seen, is from Budge's Osiris and the Egyptian Resurrection, and to suggest that he fabricated it is ludicrous. And obviously you do not actually believe this; it is legitimate to point out that Set on the "forked stick" does not immediately suggest any sort of Christian connection.

The Alexamenos graffito is quite famous for being the earliest pictorial depiction of the crucifixion. The claim that "Christians worshipped an ass" was not mine to make; it was alleged by their enemies, as recorded by Tertullian: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/tertullian06.html

In this matter we are (said to be) guilty not merely of forsaking the religion of the community, but of introducing a monstrous superstition; for some among you have dreamed that our god is an ass's head,--an absurdity which Cornelius Tacitus first suggested. In the fourth book of his histories, where he is treating of the Jewish war, he begins his description with the origin of that nation, and gives his own views respecting both the origin and the name of their religion. He relates that the Jews, in their migration in the desert, when suffering for want of water, escaped by following for guides some wild asses, which they supposed to be going in quest of water after pasture, and that on this account the image of one of these animals was worshipped by the Jews. From this, I suppose, it was presumed that we, too, from our close connection with the Jewish religion, have ours consecrated under the same emblematic form.
...
Not so long ago, a most abandoned wretch in that city of yours, a man who had deserted indeed his own religion--a Jew, in fact, who had only lost his skin, flayed of course by wild beasts, against which he enters the lists for hire day after day with a sound body, and so in a condition to lose his skin--carried about in public a caricature of us with this label: Onocoetes. This (figure) had ass's ears, and was dressed in a toga with a book, having a hoof on one of his feet. And the crowd believed this infamous Jew.


And indeed, Set was worshipped as Christ by a particularly notorious Egypto-Gnostic sect, the Sethians, who also identified him with the third son of Adam and Eve. Such was the belief of the Gnostics that the body, being of the "evil power," was willfully shed by Christ on the cross, who stood by laughing while they crucified only an image of their own ignorance.

[thelucifer]

It is not hokus pokus.. the bible is... we can see there is an awakening going on by this very movement where this forum has come from... one with their eyes open can see the illusions are now coming down.. from financial to religious to everything else... its going on despite the prophecy's that one can believe in or not..

my views may well be paganism as that very word is simply a word used for spiritual people that are not associated with an organised religion... "New Ager" and a "person into all that hokus pokus" are other terms used...

and it is hilarious that one who can brand paganism as Hokus Pokus can support the story of Jesus as something genuine lol... perticulary when one can very much depict Jesus as a Pagan him self!

Also IMO to say that denying Jesus is denying the solution is extremely ignorant to the history of the elite...

If man kind require Jesus to save it from a NWO prison, then IMO it in fact deserves to be in that prison... and to assume one deserves freedom simply because of the acceptance of another's power and light is the acceptance that man kind have in fact never even meant to be free...

I have no religion.. no set belief system.. and I worship no god... however, through my research, the most resonating stuff and outlook I feel most parallel to, is the true Luciferian philosophy.

And Im not talking about the usual bullshit thrown out there by ignorant people who are only here to defend and worship what ever their god says or what ever their reality threshold will permit. I am talking about Lucifer, man kinds hero, the process of being spiritually set free and being the true soul you are with no oppression from anyone or anything else.. where freedom is the law.


Very good for you. ;)

[thelucifer]

Oh right that bloke in the garden of Eden in the bible you learned about from the book you don't believe in and the prohecy that predicted what is happening now 2000 years ago. Hokus pokus!

case closed :D

The Bible/organized religion were/are used to hijack something much older.

[miracles]

The Bible/organized religion were/are used to hijack something much older.

Rubbish. And sorry that case was closed. :D

NB: The bible and organised religion are two different things. The book is availbale in all good secular book stores and has been a number one best seller for ever, in spite of organised religion.

[thirdwave]

Oh right that bloke in the garden of Eden in the bible you learned about from the book you don't believe in and the prohecy that predicted what is happening now 2000 years ago. Hokus pokus!

case closed :D

Well if you were to limit your research to that of the garden of Eden story as you clearly have then the case is extremely easy to close! lol.

I believe in the prophecy all right, I just realise it existed allot longer that 2000 years! lol... and is nothing to do with Jesus Christ :)

[miracles]

Well if you were to limit your research to that of the garden of Eden story as you clearly have then the case is extremely easy to close! lol.

I believe in the prophecy all right, I just realise it existed allot longer that 2000 years! lol... and is nothing to do with Jesus Christ :)

Lucifer is coming to our rescue I presume?

[vinnyharris]

Give this website a good going over:

A Brief History of the Apocalypse

http://www.abhota.info/end1.htm

:D

[miracles]

:cool:

Give Revelation a good going over! An indepth look into the future and the present for that matter.

[thirdwave]

Lucifer is coming to our rescue I presume?

Lucifer is not a person... so not sure what you mean with that comment.

If people require light, so they seek it and find it, then you could in theory say that light has come to the rescue I guess, if you wanted to.

[thirdwave]

:cool:

Give Revelation a good going over! An indepth look into the future and the presnt for that matter.

I think Revelation has had a good going over ...over and over again for many many years and the book has been quite well promoted in the western world :).

and to be quite frank the more time goes by, although the creators of it clearly did have a deeper understanding on things, the book is quite simply inside out and is meant to be that way, and only for those who know what it is really talking about....

[miracles]

Lucifer is not a person... so not sure what you mean with that comment.

If people require light, so they seek it and find it, then you could in theory say that light has come to the rescue I guess, if you wanted to.

Right that bloke who disguises himself as light. Heard about him. Good luck with that. :)

[miracles]

I think Revelation has had a good going over ...over and over again for many many years and the book has been quite well promoted in the western world :).

and to be quite frank the more time goes by, although the creators of it clearly did have a deeper understanding on things, the book is quite simply inside out and is meant to be that way, and only for those who know what it is really talking about....

word of mouth is the best advertising, usually people pass on to friends and loved ones good books they are reading. Not sure if I've ever seen it advertised or promoted. (the bible that is) Funny how it's a number one best seller every year huh? Wonder how that happens...The powers that be must be doing sublimal advertising for the bible at all the movie theaters or something maybe eh? Yeah I think that must be it. You must be in one of those who knows but cant tell anybody clubs. They're cool fun eh?

[thirdwave]

Right that bloke who disguises himself as light. Heard about him. Good luck with that. :)

Disguised him self?

I don't recall him introducing him self at all through your religious texts, I believe someone else is describing him.

the word Lucifer means "light bearer"... and its in your wonderful texts.

[miracles]

Disguised him self?

I don't recall him introducing him self at all through your religious texts, I believe someone else is describing him.

the word Lucifer means "light bearer"... and its in your wonderful texts.

I know the definition of luciferainism thank you. :) It also says in my text he disgusies himself as angel of light. My text says quite a lot about him. And what will happen to him and those who follow him regardless of their intentions. Are you of the Luciferian strain that believe satan is lucifer or is your view not that? I dont think Luciferians cant agree on that, most like Christians it appears.

[thirdwave]

word of mouth is the best advertising,

another great way to advertise somthing is by putting the fear into people.

You dont think that mass war and violence had a say in making Christiainty such a fashionable trend?


usually people pass on to friends and and loved ones good books they are reading.
Often people are also petrified that they will go to hell and burn for eternity if they dont do what it says... of course back in the day most people could not read anyway.. only rich people who could afford an education.

years ago if someone passed on a book about the Kebbalah of anything on Divination they were branded Witches and killed... the bible was always on the shop window, the very one you learned about Jesus Christ from.

Not sure if I've ever seen it advertised or promoted. (the bible that is) Funny how it's a number one best seller every year huh? Wonder how that happens...

Fuck me mate, Mr Bush was voted in as the US president for a maximum stay, wonder how that happens!?

Of course there is very little money in Christianity! LOL
its all done on a shoe string :) *sarcasm*


The powers that be must be doing sublimal advertising for the bible at all the movie theaters or something maybe eh?

Probebly, who knows.

Yeah I think that must be it. You must be in one of those who knows but cant tell anybody clubs. They're cool fun eh?

LOL what ever you want to believe that supports your bubble my friend :)

[miracles]

another great way to advertise somthing is by putting the fear into people.

You dont think that mass war and violence had a say in making Christiainty such a fashionable trend?

A pretty good reason to want to get saved when your faceing death everyday, no doubt. Im not sure if wars where created to increase bible sales thow, are you?


Often people are also petrified that they will go to hell and burn for eternity if they dont do what it says... of course back in the day most people could not read anyway.. only rich people who could afford an education.

never mind back in the day. I live one day at a time, today.

years ago if someone passed on a book about the Kebbalah of anything on Divination they were branded Witches and killed... the bible was always on the shop window, the very one you learned about Jesus Christ from.

Right by the same ones that killed people for not renouncing Christ as saviour which you say is bullshit, so I can say what your saying is bullshit too then can I?

Fuck me mate, Mr Bush was voted in as the US president for a maximum stay, wonder how that happens!?

Rigged voting system! You tell me, how do the powers that be do anything, I suppose you blame the bible belt for bush do you. HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. thats funny.

Of course there is very little money in Christianity! LOL
its all done on a shoe string :) *sarcasm*

I think satan is the one with all the cash. He runs music, TV, the media, education and movies to name a few. Thats not chump change.




LOL what ever you want to believe that supports your bubble my friend :)

Gee thanks :)

[thirdwave]

I know the definition of luciferainism thank you. :)
Oh.

It also says in my text he disgusies himself as angel of light.
where?

so it says... "the light barer disguises him self as an angel of light"??

:confused:


My text says quite a lot about him. And what will happen to him and those who follow him regardless of their intentions.

When you say Him? .. are you sure your talking about Lucifer? .. I think you are mistaken... how many times is Lucifer brought up in the bible?

And for the record, what your texts say are not at all relevant to me. for me, apart from the intriguing occult symbolism within the bible texts it is a book that is suited for the same shelf as a spider man or batman book. I find it about as liberating as a fart in a lift.

Are you of the Luciferian strain that belive stan is lucifer or is your view not that? I dont think Luciferians can agree, most like Christians it appears.

strain? lol.. I was not aware there they were a species :)

I would firstly not really call my self a Luciferian as I do not really have a set practice or belief system... but I have said my inner views and feelings are mostly parallel to the Luciferian philosophy... I guess you being a Christian, will see it all as the same thing, as neither resonate with your "Christ".

I do not believe that Satan is Lucifer because he is not... although maybe they work as a good team... I have also not met or come across a Satanist or Luciferian who see both as the same...

What I do come across is Christians who think they are the same despite their origins being totally separate.

I think the only Satanists who see them as that way are the ones who look to worship anything "Anti Christian" ... and as your religion looks to generalise anything that does not resonate with Christianity as the anti Christ... Lucifer...Satan.... so on...

well then some kind of Satanist take those concepts christinaity created and worship them as a stance against Christianity... they simply worship the enemy of Christ, that Christ made up its self, Me personally, although I can totally see where allot of that stuff comes from, I don't see the point in getting stuck down in another Dogma over another.... which is why I would probably never become a Satanist.

[signalnorth]

Yes, a lot of similarities between Jesus, Horus and many other fictional (?)( characters.


Indeed . Get hold of a copy of The Jesus Mysteries by Freke and Gandy. Fab informative read. Should be compulsory reading for all active know it all Christians!

[miracles]

Oh.


where?

so it says... "the light barer disguises him self as an angel of light"??

:confused:



When you say Him? .. are you sure your talking about Lucifer? .. I think you are mistaken... how many times is Lucifer brought up in the bible?

And for the record, what your texts say are not at all relevant to me. for me, apart from the intriguing occult symbolism within the bible texts it is a book that is suited for the same shelf as a spider man or batman book. I find it about as liberating as a fart in a lift.



strain? lol.. I was not aware there they were a species :)

I would firstly not really call my self a Luciferian as I do not really have a set practice or belief system... but I have said my inner views and feelings are mostly parallel to the Luciferian philosophy... I guess you being a Christian, will see it all as the same thing, as neither resonate with your "Christ".

I do not believe that Satan is Lucifer because he is not... although maybe they work as a good team... I have also not met or come across a Satanist or Luciferian who see both as the same...

What I do come across is Christians who think they are the same despite their origins being totally separate.

I think the only Satanists who see them as that way are the ones who look to worship anything "Anti Christian" ... and as your religion looks to generalise anything that does not resonate with Christianity as the anti Christ... Lucifer...Satan.... so on...

well then some kind of Satanist take those concepts christinaity created and worship them as a stance against Christianity... they simply worship the enemy of Christ, that Christ made up its self, Me personally, although I can totally see where allot of that stuff comes from, I don't see the point in getting stuck down in another Dogma over another.... which is why I would probably never become a Satanist.

Fair enough.

I believe the bible is the word of God and after reading it consquently recieved Christ as my saviour. I wouldnt neccessarily call myself a christian, simply because of what the name has come to mean for most people and because of the multitides who call themselves christians, that aren't.

2nd Corinthians 11.14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Theres your two buddies working in tandem.

[thirdwave]

Fair enough.

I believe the bible is the word of God and after reading it consquently recieved Christ as my saviour. I wouldnt neccessarily call myself a christian,

You believe the bible is the word of god, who is Christ. Who has been your personal saviour... Hence, you are what is known as a Christian.

... simply because of what the name has come to mean for most people and because of the mutitides who call themselves christians, that aren't.
It does not matter what it means to other people.. the word is used to describe one who believes that Jesus Christ is our saviour and the bible is the word of God, for man kind.... its called Christianity and its about Christians.

although you have every right to become fed-up of the term and choose to remove it from your self... I would not be shocked if others refer to you as a Christian by mistake.


2nd Corinthians 11.14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Theres your two buddies working in tandem.

You are the one who brought up Satan...(Saturn) ..("the accuser") ...

I am talking about Lucifer (Vinus) ..(Light barer)

also the evil god that's in the bible, why would he say... "and when Satan... or when Lucifer comes to teach you of lies and myths that I have brainwashed you with.... he will be very graceful and light?"

it would not really happen would it.

however, what would an evil god say to his brainwashed subjects?

he would tell them that when they SEE an Angel of light.... to FEAR it.

which is exactly what christinaity is...fearing freedom, and wallowing in submission.

its right there for you to see!

ok I don't need to be told not all are like this yadda yadda... but we can see the vast majority... and that is an issue and has been an issue... and I cant see why "smart" Christians cant also address this why they have to keep objecting when people point it out.

[thelucifer]

Fair enough.

I believe the bible is the word of God and after reading it consquently recieved Christ as my saviour. I wouldnt neccessarily call myself a christian, simply because of what the name has come to mean for most people and because of the multitides who call themselves christians, that aren't.

2nd Corinthians 11.14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Theres your two buddies working in tandem.


Satan and the Lucifer are not one and the same and they are not in cahoots with each other.

In Rev. 22:16 the Jesus character says he is the Lucifer "bright and morning star".
Jesus/bright and morning star/Lucifer is the good guy !!

Satan is set up as/wants to be as the Lucifer but it/he is not.
Satan wants to be as/look like the good guy but is not.


Just drives me nuts to see people who think they know the Bible make Jesus into Satan or working together. LOL

[drakul]

If you look at how HORUS was worshipped in Egyptian society and if you look at Horus `life' story - there is actually very little comparison between the NATURE of the 2 savior gods:

1. Horus was first and foremost the AVENGER of his father's murder by Set.

Jesus was about forgiveness and love NOT vengance.

2. Horus was a WARRIOR who fought many battles with Set.

Jesus never fought - he used passive resistance.

3. Horus is always shown with the head of a predatory animal, the HAWK.

4. Horus' mother Isis was ALREADY MARRIED and had been for some time to Osiris when he was killed by Set. So how could she have been a virgin as Murdock claims? Usually virginity is taken care of on the wedding night, the Egyptians were no different. This is another case of Murdocks claim that a woman is a virgin no matter how many children she has - as in Krishna who was the 8th child of his parents. Murdock claims Krishna's mother, Devaki was a `virgin'.

Isis who was also the SISTER of Osiris, found his body and using magic spells brought it back to life. THEN her son Horus was conceived by her once- again living HUSBAND, Osiris, NOT some anonymous holy ghost. Set discovered the living Osiris and killed him AGAIN. This time he cut up Osiris body and it in 14 places all over Egypt.

In Jesus case - Mary was not the sister of her husband Joseph, nor was Joseph killed by his brother.

Let me say here that I don't support the idea of the `immaculate conception' of Jesus. For me this is just church dogma. However I do think it's important to point out this difference between the legends of the 2 savior gods, Horus and Jesus. They are very different.

5. Horus was the son of the king and queen of Egypt. His mother Isis was also his father's sister, so we are talking total in-breeding here.

Jesus was from a humble background. Yes the Bible says Jesus was from the `house of David', on Joseph's side, however that is irrelevant since Joseph was not his father. Nor was Joseph OR Mary even closely related to the ruling familes of Israel.

6. Horus fought 3 victorious battles with Set and regained the throne of Egypt.

Jesus never wanted to be king or rule anyone. (`My kingdom is not of this earth')

Jesus was miserably executed.

7. Horus brought Set in chains to the Hall of Justice.

Jesus forgave those who killed him `for they know not what they do'.

8. Horus was the prototype for HERCULES and in fact the name Hercules and the word HERO are derived from Horus/HERU. Horus was worshipped as the WARRIOR hero.

[thelucifer]

If you look at how HORUS was worshipped in Egyptian society and if you look at Horus `life' story - there is actually very little comparison between the NATURE of the 2 savior gods:

1. Horus was first and foremost the AVENGER of his father's murder by Set.
Jesus was about forgiveness and love.

2. Horus was a WARRIOR who fought many battles with Set.

Jesus never fought - he used passive resistance.

3. Horus is always shown with the head of a predatory animal, the HAWK.

4. Horus' mother Isis was ALREADY MARRIED and had been for some time to Osiris when he was killed by Set. So how could she have been a virgin as Murdock claims? Usually virginity is taken care of on the wedding night, the Egyptians were no different. This is another case of Murdocks claim that a woman is a virgin no matter how many children she has - as in Krishna who was the 8th child of his parents. However Murdock claims Krishna was a `virgin'.

Isis who was also the SISTER of Osiris, found his body and using magic spells brought it back to life. THEN her son Horus was conceived by her living HUSBAND. Set discovered the living Osiris and killed him AGAIN. This time he cut up Osiris body and it in 14 places all over Egypt.

Let me say here that I don't support the idea of the `immaculate conception' of Jesus. For me this is just church dogma. However I do think it's important to point out this difference between the legends of the 2 savior gods, Horus and Jesus. They are very different.

5. Horus was the son of the king and queen of Egypt. His mother Isis was also his father's sister, so we are talking total in-breeding here.

Jesus was from a humble background.

6. Horus fought 3 battles with Set and became king of Egypt.

Jesus was miserably executed.

7. Horus brought Set in chains to the Hall of Justice.

Jesus forgave those who killed him `for they no not what they do'.

8. Horus was the prototype for HERCULES he was the WARRIOR hero.

Jesus is also a warrior hero/lord hence the sword of the lord etc.

[drakul]

Horus was far from being any kind Jesus figure.

Horus was a bloodthirsty warrior who committed HUMAN SACRIFICE.

Translation from the texts on walls of the Ptolemaic temple to Horus at Edfu:

Then Horus the Behedet drove his enemies southwards and destroyed them in a region of the south-east and many were killed but others escaped. And he caught them to the NE of Dendera and made a great slaughter with his weapons of iron and his spears and axes.

Then Horus sent out his followers and they hunted down the enemy and they captured many prisoners, one hundred and six from the east and the same number from the west and they were SLAIN BEFORE RE AS A SACRIFICE.

[luciferhorus]

http://z004.ig.com.br/ig/08/05/156165/blig/blackomen/imagens/good_vs_evil.jpg





I do not believe that Satan is Lucifer because he is not... although maybe they work as a good team... I have also not met or come across a Satanist or Luciferian who see both as the same...

What I do come across is Christians who think they are the same despite their origins being totally separate.

I think the only Satanists who see them as that way are the ones who look to worship anything "Anti Christian" ... and as your religion looks to generalise anything that does not resonate with Christianity as the anti Christ... Lucifer...Satan.... so on...


http://www.luciferia.tv/images/judgement dayIV.jpg

Good vs. Evil.

The Lucifer vs Satan archetype is very much the god of light vs the god of darkness archetype;
the Sun god Horus vs. Set, the god of the darkness;
the Sun / Venus (Light/Love) archetype vs. Saturn (Death, restriction, darkness, destruction),
Luke Skywalker (Lucifer who walks in the sky) vs. his father Darth Vader (Dark Invader);
the Pagans (countryside people) vs. the Devils ( Fr. De Ville, of the towns or city);
the Communists vs the Capitalists;
Jesus vs. the Saduccees;
Prometheus vs. the gods of his age;
the enlightened anti-Christians who seek to awaken the ignorant and enslaved Christians, etc., etc., etc.

This problem is amplified by the fact that they who represent the god of Capital use the same language as they who seek to wage war against the god of Capital and his preisthood; both use terms of language such as good and evil, but define the terms differently. For exampe a 'good' Communist has an entirely different meaning to a good 'Nazi, Christian or Capitalist,' but the language is the same.

Such archetypes are entwined in fiction and in myth and are part of our subconscious.

http://msp306.photobucket.com/albums/nn248/cookie_bitch/cats.jpg

Why on earth would Christians associate Lucifer (Love/Light) with their enemy Satan (Saturn, Set, Darkness)? It makes perfect sense to me since Christianity represents ignorance, fear, slavery and submission to the priesthood of Capital and the god of Capital (Saturn), the Devil (the god of the city people).

http://images.easyart.com/i/prints/rw/lg/6/5/Star-Wars-Darth-Vader---Luke-Skywalker-Lightsaber-Duel-65545.jpg

Obviously an archetype which represents freedom, rebellion, love, light, liberation, personal enlightenment freedom of thought ect., is going be considered an enemy or adversary to the evil god of Christendom and his slaves (devotees / hypnotic victims).

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_lXxG3NEoEEw/R_1kOsn6jcI/AAAAAAAACRA/oOOkif4tBgk/DSC01787.JPG
Above: Horus fighting Set

LL

Lux
Lex e tenebris.
The Revolution against Christedom.

http://schooloffish.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/free_thinker.jpg

http://www.gdargaud.net/Humor/Pics/Bible.jpg

[danceswithbunnies]

Maybe it is embedded in all the myths because they are reflections of the human mind which operates through the human brain...

Light and Dark
Left hemisphere (logos) vs Right hemisphere subconscious

[uncia]

Why on earth would Christians associate Lucifer (Love/Light) with their enemy Satan (Saturn, Set, Darkness)?
Because the only mention of Lucifer in the Bible, is as a type of Satan.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Here the prophecy is strictly about the King of Babylon

Isa 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
.
.
Isa 14:22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.

For some reason, the KJV inserts Lucifer. The destruction of Babylon, aka Lucifer, by Cyrus etc was a presage and type of the fall of Satan at the hands of Christ:

Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Satan himself is described as an angel of light:

2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

The parallels are too obvious to be ignored.

[drakul]

Horus was far from being any kind Jesus figure.

Horus was a bloodthirsty warrior who committed HUMAN SACRIFICE.

Translation from the texts on walls of the Ptolemaic temple to Horus at Edfu:

Then Horus the Behedet drove his enemies southwards and destroyed them in a region of the south-east and many were killed but others escaped. And he caught them to the NE of Dendera and made a great slaughter with his weapons of iron and his spears and axes.

Then Horus sent out his followers and they hunted down the enemy and they captured many prisoners, one hundred and six from the east and the same number from the west and they were SLAIN BEFORE RE AS A SACRIFICE.

Colorful drawings above posted by Lucifer/Horus are just World of Warcraft playtime fantasies. Lucifer is not Horus. Horus is a solar deity. Lucifer is a star.

Horus is no where near being a Jesus Christ. He was a blood thirsty warrior. In one Egyptian text Horus even CUT OFF HIS MOTHER'S HEAD.

From the Egyptian text - Chester Beatty Papyrus #1:

Then Horus was very angry with Isis for setting Seth free (Seth was Isis' brother), and so he came out of the water and cut off her head with an axe and clasping the head went up into the mountains.

Only an ignoramus or a cold-blooded liar could say with a straight face that Horus was the Egyptian Jesus Christ.

[uncia]

Lucifer is a star.

"Lucifer" is actually Latin and so was unknown to the Greeks and Egyptians. It refers to the planet Venus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer).

[drakul]

"Lucifer" is actually Latin and so was unknown to the Greeks and Egyptians. It refers to the planet Venus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer).

Yes - Lucifer is the morning and evening STAR. Horus is a Solar/SUN god deity.

[danceswithbunnies]

Because the only mention of Lucifer in the Bible, is as a type of Satan.



Here the prophecy is strictly about the King of Babylon



For some reason, the KJV inserts Lucifer. The destruction of Babylon, aka Lucifer, by Cyrus etc was a presage and type of the fall of Satan at the hands of Christ:



Satan himself is described as an angel of light:



The parallels are too obvious to be ignored.

Satan is not God's Enemy in the bible but is his prosecuting attorney..he is completely under God's control..
See
Satan A Biography by Henry Ansgar Kelly

http://books.google.com/books?id=gPIpQg0lRbMC&pg=RA10-PA370&lpg=RA10-PA370&dq=Time+present:+I,+Jesus+am+Lucifer&source=bl&ots=-ZofiO8bMX&sig=Tx4ZUNWW9gEG_VpweeFz_iXeZC8&hl=en&ei=b-0SSpj8Aoj4tAORl9DgDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1

"lucifer" as satan was an invention of the Poet Milton.....

In fact the Lucifer is Jesus Christ..the bright and morning star..

If you think that Satan is Lucifer then Satan would be Jesus Christ as well.
I suppose this could be the case since the Bible does talk in the OT about Satan Causing David to number Israel...and in other places says that it was YHVH that caused David to number Israel.


Recall that Christ mentions that he must be lifted up as the serpent:

John 3:14
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:


Revelation to John 22:16
Time present: I, Jesus am Lucifer..

[uncia]

"lucifer" as satan was an invention of the Poet Milton.....

In fact the Lucifer is Jesus Christ..the bright and morning star..

Word play. The name "Lucifier" in the KJV expressly denotes the King of Babylon's pretensions to be the morning star. But he was not the true morning star. Christ was.

The name Lucifer is not a biblical name. It simply means "the bright morning star".

Lucifier as a name can mean whatever you want it to mean. In fact actual people have been named "Lucifer".

However the KJV never gives the name Lucifer to Christ.



If you think that Satan is Lucifer then Satan would be Jesus Christ as well.
I suppose this could be the case since the Bible does talk in the OT about Satan Causing David to number Israel...and in other places says that it was YHVH that caused David to number Israel.


Recall that Christ mentions that he must be lifted up as the serpent:

John 3:14
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:


Revelation to John 22:16
Time present: I, Jesus am Lucifer..
No. The single usage of Lucifier in Isaiah 14 refers to the King of Babylon whom himself is a type and representative of Satan. Milton was right to call Satan by the name Lucifer.

[thelucifer]

Word play. The name "Lucifier" in the KJV expressly denotes the King of Babylon's pretensions to be the morning star. But he was not the true morning star. Christ was.

The name Lucifer is not a biblical name. It simply means "the bright morning star".

Lucifier as a name can mean whatever you want it to mean. In fact actual people have been named "Lucifer".

However the KJV never gives the name Lucifer to Christ.



No. The single usage of Lucifier in Isaiah 14 refers to the King of Babylon whom himself is a type and representative of Satan. Milton was right to call Satan by the name Lucifer.


The word "Lucifer" in Isaiah is a mistranslation by Jerome.




The Christ figure is connected to the sun and to Venus.

The Sun is masculine and Venus is feminine, both as with the androgynous Baphomet, the Compass and Square, the point within the circle (the Washington monument with the circle around it) etc etc.

The morning sun is stronger/brighter than the setting sun etc etc.

The sun and the light of the world symbolism etc etc.

[miracles]

Satan is not God's Enemy in the bible but is his prosecuting attorney..he is completely under God's control..
See
Satan A Biography by Henry Ansgar Kelly

http://books.google.com/books?id=gPIpQg0lRbMC&pg=RA10-PA370&lpg=RA10-PA370&dq=Time+present:+I,+Jesus+am+Lucifer&source=bl&ots=-ZofiO8bMX&sig=Tx4ZUNWW9gEG_VpweeFz_iXeZC8&hl=en&ei=b-0SSpj8Aoj4tAORl9DgDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1

"lucifer" as satan was an invention of the Poet Milton.....

In fact the Lucifer is Jesus Christ..the bright and morning star..

If you think that Satan is Lucifer then Satan would be Jesus Christ as well.
I suppose this could be the case since the Bible does talk in the OT about Satan Causing David to number Israel...and in other places says that it was YHVH that caused David to number Israel.


Recall that Christ mentions that he must be lifted up as the serpent:

John 3:14
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:


Revelation to John 22:16
Time present: I, Jesus am Lucifer..

Yaweh (God) caused satan to cause David to number Israel.
People really do look hard for loop holes that just aren't there dont they. anything thing to refute the irrefuteable.

Do you know why that is? Quite simply becuase people dont want to know or follow God. He used to guide Israel by day with a cloud and by night with fire, they told Him to beetle off and to give them a King to rule them instead. Go figure. Just like Children who cant wait to move out of home and party on down. But He lets us get on with it, and is always there to bale us out when we come to our senses.

[miracles]

You believe the bible is the word of god, who is Christ. Who has been your personal saviour... Hence, you are what is known as a Christian.


It does not matter what it means to other people.. the word is used to describe one who believes that Jesus Christ is our saviour and the bible is the word of God, for man kind.... its called Christianity and its about Christians.

although you have every right to become fed-up of the term and choose to remove it from your self... I would not be shocked if others refer to you as a Christian by mistake.

Again, yes fair enough. Im not sure that the majority know what it means to be a Christian though, your quite well informed.

You are the one who brought up Satan...(Saturn) ..("the accuser") ...

I am talking about Lucifer (Vinus) ..(Light barer)

Your the one who said the following:

I do not believe that Satan is Lucifer because he is not... although maybe they work as a good team[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]also the evil god that's in the bible, why would he say... "and when Satan... or when Lucifer comes to teach you of lies and myths that I have brainwashed you with.... he will be very graceful and light?"

Umm, becuase He's evil? :)

it would not really happen would it.

however, what would an evil god say to his brainwashed subjects?

he would tell them that when they SEE an Angel of light.... to FEAR it.

which is exactly what christinaity is...fearing freedom, and wallowing in submission.

its right there for you to see!

Thats an interesting take. Ill give you that. Although obvioulsy becuase Im brainwashed, I dont see the author of the bible as evil. I am of the opinion that the evil one has done a very clever number on you and those who see things the way you do. IE you believe exactly what God warned againts us believing.

The fact is, we are currently in the age of Grace, where everything is allowed under the sun. So I put it to you that people of all beliefs and opinons are currently as free as each other. Anyone who claims to be more free/enlightened/awakened than any one else, in a the relatively (currently) free western society is on a spiritual acid trip.

ok I don't need to be told not all are like this yadda yadda... but we can see the vast majority... and that is an issue and has been an issue... and I cant see why "smart" Christians cant also address this why they have to keep objecting when people point it out.

Do you mean when you point out that your right and we are wrong?

IE: Lucifer is not bad. Okay, biblically speaking, before Lucifer decided to say, "Stuff this for a game of soldiers Father God, I want to be top dog now, im tired of being 2IC" Yes before that, he was favoured very highly by God, I would suggest that he is a very beautiful amazing looking creature, some suggest he is a walking talking musical instrument, a veritable orchestra, which is how he controls music and its influence over all the world. Before Humans he was Gods number one creation. He was jealous of how much God loved humans and thought "Right Im gonna go down there and fuck up their shit, whos in?" Evidently a third of the angels went with him. And they have ceratinly fucked up our shit quite a bit. Yes thanks lucifer father of light/lies, where do I sign?

In conclusion, one thing I have learned of late, thanks to you, is that people like yourslef, and luciferians, are not evil people as I would suggest perhaps satanists might be. I think you are genuine in what you believe. You see it as something good. I just dont see it that way. I don't see you guys as evil though and anti what is good and right and fair presay. But I do see you as deluded as you see me.

[uncia]

Lucifer is Satan. Satanists are Luciferians. The only difference is the degree and type of practice of Satanism (white satanism or black satanism). This is dangerous ground.

[miracles]

Lucifer is Satan. Satanists are Luciferians. The only difference is the degree and type of practice of Satanism (white satanism or black satanism). This is dangerous ground.

Yes Im aware of that bro. The thing is I think those who call themselves luciferain or have luciferian sympathies dont see themselves as being anti God persay. They belive the bible is not the word of God. People like Tsarion are really big teachers of this sort of stuff. They think Satan/lucifer is our rescuer opening our eyes to truth that "Bad old God' was trying to hide from us. I dont think they are believing this becuase they are evil. From our christian perspective, obvioulsy we think theyve been deceived, but they think we are the deceived ones.

Perhaps a luciferian can correct me on this and simply say I'm wrong, if they can say they hate good and love evil, then I will stand corrected.

[thirdwave]

http://z004.ig.com.br/ig/08/05/156165/blig/blackomen/imagens/good_vs_evil.jpg



http://www.luciferia.tv/images/judgement dayIV.jpg

Good vs. Evil.

The Lucifer vs Satan archetype is very much the god of light vs the god of darkness archetype;
the Sun god Horus vs. Set, the god of the darkness;
the Sun / Venus (Light/Love) archetype vs. Saturn (Death, restriction, darkness, destruction),
Luke Skywalker (Lucifer who walks in the sky) vs. his father Darth Vader (Dark Invader);
the Pagans (countryside people) vs. the Devils ( Fr. De Ville, of the towns or city);
the Communists vs the Capitalists;
Jesus vs. the Saduccees;
Prometheus vs. the gods of his age;
the enlightened anti-Christians who seek to awaken the ignorant and enslaved Christians, etc., etc., etc.

This problem is amplified by the fact that they who represent the god of Capital use the same language as they who seek to wage war against the god of Capital and his preisthood; both use terms of language such as good and evil, but define the terms differently. For exampe a 'good' Communist has an entirely different meaning to a good 'Nazi, Christian or Capitalist,' but the language is the same.

Such archetypes are entwined in fiction and in myth and are part of our subconscious.

http://msp306.photobucket.com/albums/nn248/cookie_bitch/cats.jpg

Why on earth would Christians associate Lucifer (Love/Light) with their enemy Satan (Saturn, Set, Darkness)? It makes perfect sense to me since Christianity represents ignorance, fear, slavery and submission to the priesthood of Capital and the god of Capital (Saturn), the Devil (the god of the city people).

http://images.easyart.com/i/prints/rw/lg/6/5/Star-Wars-Darth-Vader---Luke-Skywalker-Lightsaber-Duel-65545.jpg

Obviously an archetype which represents freedom, rebellion, love, light, liberation, personal enlightenment freedom of thought ect., is going be considered an enemy or adversary to the evil god of Christendom and his slaves (devotees / hypnotic victims).

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_lXxG3NEoEEw/R_1kOsn6jcI/AAAAAAAACRA/oOOkif4tBgk/DSC01787.JPG
Above: Horus fighting Set

LL

Lux
Lex e tenebris.
The Revolution against Christedom.

http://schooloffish.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/free_thinker.jpg

http://www.gdargaud.net/Humor/Pics/Bible.jpg



Somthing about Star was that hits home with me... i think its such a bigger story than people think...

i think when you have the dark and the light you are at peace... its when you dont have balance you suffer..

[thirdwave]

Because the only mention of Lucifer in the Bible, is as a type of Satan.

and that makes it more logical? :confused:

another example of if its in the bible, it cant possibly be a load of bollocks... it must be truth?

if one researches what Lucifer means then one should question the bible...



The parallels are too obvious to be ignored.

the parales only exist in the bible!!...

outside of the bible (before the bible) there were no parallels!... they were simply not the same thing...

do your research. they did not represent the same thing.

[thirdwave]

"Lucifer" is actually Latin and so was unknown to the Greeks and Egyptians. It refers to the planet Venus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer).

actually it was known as Aton... which was also Venus... and a symbol of the sun....

[thirdwave]

Lucifer is Satan. Satanists are Luciferians. The only difference is the degree and type of practice of Satanism (white satanism or black satanism). This is dangerous ground.

false, you don't know what your talking about.

there is no debate to it... unless you are a Christian (of which there would be no point even debating) you will learn they are not the same thing...

Fact... end of... no argument.. your wrong.

[danceswithbunnies]

Word play. The name "Lucifier" in the KJV expressly denotes the King of Babylon's pretensions to be the morning star. But he was not the true morning star. Christ was.

The name Lucifer is not a biblical name. It simply means "the bright morning star".

Lucifier as a name can mean whatever you want it to mean. In fact actual people have been named "Lucifer".

However the KJV never gives the name Lucifer to Christ.



No. The single usage of Lucifier in Isaiah 14 refers to the King of Babylon whom himself is a type and representative of Satan. Milton was right to call Satan by the name Lucifer.


You saying that the King of Babylon had the pretensions to be the morning star is YOUR INTERPRETATION of the text.
There is a difference between interpretation and what a text actually says.

Christians do not seem to grasp that much of what they believe the bible says it in fact does not say. It is in fact a meaning they project UNTO the text.

The "true morning star"...give me a break again interpretation and special pleading.

Again, this is clear..
YHVH of the old testament is Jesus Christ of the new Testament..
It is clear that the God of the old testament is also Satan..
In Isa 45:7 he says he creates evil...in other verses he admits sending lying spirit in the mouth of the prophets..(1Kings 22:23, 2 Chronicles 18:22)
God is satan..when HE causes David to number Israel.

this is cut and dried.


For general interest most of the goddesses of the ancient world were known by the appellation Lucifera before whatever their actual names were.

[danceswithbunnies]

Lucifer is Satan. Satanists are Luciferians. The only difference is the degree and type of practice of Satanism (white satanism or black satanism). This is dangerous ground.


Christians are actually satanists...

[thirdwave]

Yes Im aware of that bro. The thing is I think those who call themselves luciferain or have luciferian sympathies dont see themselves as being anti God persay. They belive the bible is not the word of God. People like Tsarion are really big teachers of this sort of stuff. They think Satan/lucifer is our rescuer opening our eyes to truth that "Bad old God' was trying to hide from us. I dont think they are believing this becuase they are evil. From our christian perspective, obvioulsy we think theyve been deceived, but they think we are the deceived ones.

Perhaps a luciferian can correct me on this and simply say I'm wrong, if they can say they hate good and love evil, then I will stand corrected.

im not officially a Luciferian... but I can assure you that your wrong... just have another look through this thread and see how your argument has been ripped to shreds and it might click. :)

why do you think that Jesus referred to HIM SELF as the "morning star" which is what Lucifer was known as.

hhhhm?

[miracles]

im not officially a Luciferian... but I can assure you that your wrong... just have another look through this thread and see how your argument has been ripped to shreds and it might click. :)

why do you think that Jesus referred to HIM SELF as the "morning star" which is what Lucifer was known as.

hhhhm?

Im wrong as in you hate good an love evil?

Okay I will have a good look through the whole thread.

I think there is something very sinister behind the star wars movies.

[thirdwave]

Christians are actually satanists...

in way I agree... but for me its more they worship the god of anti balance...

male energy over female... dark over light... fear over freedom...

there is no balance ... there for a god and his slaves...

I believe one must embrace the dark of Satan and the light of Lucifer to be whole and happy... the real Christian "god" (and im not talking about Jesus as its not about Jesus in the end)... when it is seen from underneath its rock.. is a being that keeps people from finding that balance... and enslaved.


I found it interesting in Star Wars that they were not trying to win.... they were trying to bring balance....

and Darth Vadar was the chosen one... the "one who would bring balance" ...

and he did in the end.

[danceswithbunnies]

Yaweh (God) caused satan to cause David to number Israel.
People really do look hard for loop holes that just aren't there dont they. anything thing to refute the irrefuteable.

Do you know why that is? Quite simply becuase people dont want to know or follow God. He used to guide Israel by day with a cloud and by night with fire, they told Him to beetle off and to give them a King to rule them instead. Go figure. Just like Children who cant wait to move out of home and party on down. But He lets us get on with it, and is always there to bale us out when we come to our senses.


"irrefutable"????
err, i am a mathematician and actually know what constitutes "irrefutable proof", it appears that you do not.

Your special pleading of the text is noted.
It says WHAT it says, we are talking literally here, not the spin you want to put on it by saying that God caused Satan to get David to number Israel, or some other happy horseshit interpretation.

You Are correct i have a problem folowing a genocidal control freak who murders his only son to porpitiate his own bloodlust.
He makes Stalin look like a choir boy.

[thirdwave]

Im wrong as in you hate good an love evil?

I dont hate at all... so yes you are wrong.




I think there is something very sinister behind the star wars movies.
I think most Christians fear anything that is informative in anyway... because they fear liberation and enjoy being slaves for their oppressive god.... So why would a slave who enjoys being their gods slave take anything good from another's enlightenment?

[danceswithbunnies]

in way I agree... but for me its more they worship the god of anti balance...

male energy over female... dark over light... fear over freedom...

there is no balance ... there for a god and his slaves...

I believe one must embrace the dark of Satan and the light of Lucifer to be whole and happy... the real Christian "god" (and im not talking about Jesus as its not about Jesus in the end)... when it is seen from underneath its rock.. is a being that keeps people from finding that balance... and enslaved.
I agree that you can interpret it allegorically, but these people are talking literally here...SO Given the behavior of the God of the Bible, what exactly is "dark" about satan?

I don't recall hearing him mass murder anybody, i don't recall him exhorting people to smash infants heads against the rocks the way biblegod does..(as i have said before though they are actually one and the same many times)

[thirdwave]

I agree that you can interpret it allegorically, but these people are talking literally here...SO Given the behavior of the God of the Bible, what exactly is "dark" about satan?

I don't recall hearing him mass murder anybody, i don't recall him exhorting people to smash infants heads against the rocks the way biblegod does..(as i have said before though they are actually one and the same many times)

totally... the God in the bible is a selfish... jealous violent, intolerant bully... who seeks worship and submission. and offers no individuality to man kind.

Lucifer offers light and knowledge and self empowerment.. the ability to love your self... and hence love others.

[miracles]

I dont hate at all... so yes you are wrong.




I think most Christians fear anything that is informative in anyway... because they fear liberation and enjoy being slaves for their oppressive god.... So why would a slave who enjoys being their gods slave take anything good from another's enlightenment?

Read what I said earlier?. I didnt say you hated good and loved evil, l said the opposite, then you said I was wrong?

I dont knock other peoples beliefs. You and your ilke on other hand seem to be campaigning vigurously against Christianity, there is a palpable hatred for it. Supposedly becuase you feel it is the reason for all the great evil in the world. I find that fantastically amusing. :)

Is david Icke an active campaigner against religion? IE does he hate it and find it as the worlds great evil?

[miracles]

"irrefutable"????
err, i am a mathematician and actually know what constitutes "irrefutable proof", it appears that you do not.

Your special pleading of the text is noted.
It says WHAT it says, we are talking literally here, not the spin you want to put on it by saying that God caused Satan to get David to number Israel, or some other happy horseshit interpretation.

You Are correct i have a problem folowing a genocidal control freak who murders his only son to porpitiate his own bloodlust.
He makes Stalin look like a choir boy.

Um Im not a mathmatician but I know 1 plus 1 equals 2 and not three. :D You need to read Ivan Panins work from a mathmatical perspective then, there is a billion x a billion billions chance that the bible was not written by a supernatual intelligence. IE no chance. Thats irrefuteable chum. Do the maths. Lol.

[drakul]

So we're not talking about the thread topic - relationship betw Horus and Jesus anymore???

Guess TW and Bunnywabbit have no response to Egyptian texts which state Horus committed human sacrifice and cut off his mother's head. So instead of addressing this they just pretend like they never saw it and start arguing about extraneous off topic stuff. :D

[uncia]

You saying that the King of Babylon had the pretensions to be the morning star is YOUR INTERPRETATION of the text.
There is a difference between interpretation and what a text actually says.

The only person in Isaiah 14 is the king of Babylon. Who else can it be but he? He was destined for destruction. That is what the prophecy is about. All "Luciferians" are likewise destined for hell


Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.



The "true morning star"...give me a break again interpretation and special pleading.

It says so explicitly:

Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star.


Again, this is clear..
YHVH of the old testament is Jesus Christ of the new Testament..
It is clear that the God of the old testament is also Satan..
In Isa 45:7 he says he creates evil...in other verses he admits sending lying spirit in the mouth of the prophets..(1Kings 22:23, 2 Chronicles 18:22)
God is satan..when HE causes David to number Israel.

this is cut and dried.

Not at all. Satan has two functions: (1) Deceiver (2) Accuser. in bestowing wrath and bringing evil, God is doing neither. Furthermore, as the creator, he alone has the right to destroy what he created.


For general interest most of the goddesses of the ancient world were known by the appellation Lucifera before whatever their actual names were.
Where is your source?

[uncia]

false, you don't know what your talking about.

there is no debate to it... unless you are a Christian (of which there would be no point even debating) you will learn they are not the same thing...

Fact... end of... no argument.. your wrong.
No I am not wrong.
What the latin word Lucifier meant in ancient times before Christ has no necessary connection to what it means today.

Here and now in the Christian era, the only usage of Lucifier (meaning light giver) is as a name of Satan.

2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

In Roman times, where Latin was a current language, clearly it meant what it implied, and hence was used for people's names and as a name of Venus.

In the vulgate, of circa AD 450 Lucifier was used to identify the King of Babylon in Isaiah 14 (as well as the element Phosphoros in 2 Peter) but it is the former identification which had predominated in the Christian era. Isaiah 14 is clearly also a prophecy of the fall of Satan from heaven.

To pretend otherwise is simply to deny its usage over the last 1600 years.

Whilst occultists of today are free to attempt to adopt another usage of Lucifier, others are equally free to ignore the attempt and see in it a mask for being a satanist.

[thirdwave]

Read what I said earlier?. I didnt say you hated good and loved evil, l said the opposite, then you said was wrong?

read what I said. I said I don't hate at all, so you are wrong.


I dont knock other peoples beliefs. You and your ilke on other hand seem to be campaigning vigurously against Christianity, there is a palpable hatred for it.

I would like to point out that this is a David Icke forum, who has written about the corruptiong and false information within religion. I come here to talk about such topics and recieve and offer information.. be educated and offer education... the only reason there is confrontation is because of the campaigning of Christians that come here to preach to people they are fully aware do not support their faith....

I have no intention of visiting Christians and trying to make them change their faith, it would not be my Forum of choice..

I am not attacking peoples belifes... I am defending them.

You are attacking other peoples beliefs by implying that Luciferians are evil.. or misguided... and you don't always have to willingly attack them... simply refusing to research the info deeper creates an ignorance to the same effect.

Supposedly becuase you feel it is the reason for all the great evil in the world. I find that fantastically amusing. :)
Your words, not mine.

Is david Icke an active campaigner against religion? IE does he hate it and find it as the worlds great evil?

I don't think he hates anything really... and I would imagine he realises how much of a waste of time a campaign would be... though he has researched and does provide the information in his books.... he is fully aware of the way religion is not the answer.

[thirdwave]

So we're not talking about the thread topic - relationship betw Horus and Jesus anymore???

Guess TW and Bunnywabbit have no response to Egyptian texts which state Horus committed human sacrifice and cut off his mother's head. So instead of addressing this they just pretend like they never saw it and start arguing about extraneous off topic stuff. :D


in your dreams... But If you are going to be ignorant to the points brought up and just go one creating your own little argument, then I would not waste my time...

your ignorance is your choice.

[thirdwave]

No I am not wrong.
What the latin word Lucifier meant in ancient times before Christ has no necessary connection to what it means today.

lol, if you could try to pull your head out of the back side of christinaity... then it would...

The word has and always will mean the same thing.... apart from if you disregard its roots and view it as Christianity does.

But seeing as the amount of bullshit you can see in the bible many people would rather stick to the historic roots of such myths and words.

Let me rephrase what I said...

You are wrong, unless you are a Christian of course.




Here and now in the Christian era, the only usage of Lucifier (meaning light giver) is as a name of Satan.
Christian Era? LOL...

and it cant be challenged?

wrong!, thankfully in this "Christian Era" it CAN and IS challenged and no one has been burned to death as a result..

and it has actually become shockingly easy to challenge it.


In Roman times, where Latin was a current language, clearly it meant what it implied, and hence was used for people's names and as a name of Venus.
and then the super bible came along and decided to perk it up! :rolleyes:


To pretend otherwise is simply to deny its usage over the last 1600 years.

No it is not.. it is to point out the complete ignorance and bullshit that has been around for the last 1600 years...

yes that's right the point being raised as that Christianity is not the truth.... or at least not at face value.


Whilst occultists of today are free to attempt to adopt another usage of Lucifier, others are equally free to ignore the attempt and see in it a mask for being a satanist.

You of course are free to believe in the dominate Christian reinvention of the words.... and express your freedom this way... while others are free to see the words how they were before Christianity changed them... and to view Christianity as infiltrators and lier's..

freedom is a wonderful thing.

[miracles]

lol, if you could try to pull your head out of the back side of christinaity... then it would...

The word has and always will mean the same thing.... apart from if you disregard its roots and view it as Christianity does.

But seeing as the amount of bullshit you can see in the bible many people would rather stick to the historic roots of such myths and words.

Let me rephrase what I said...

You are wrong, unless you are a Christian of course.


Christian Era? LOL...

and it cant be challenged?

wrong!, thankfully in this "Christian Era" it CAN and IS challenged and no one has been burned to death as a result..

and it has actually become shockingly easy to challenge it.


and then the super bible came along and decided to perk it up! :rolleyes:




No it is not.. it is to point out the complete ignorance and bullshit that has been around for the last 1600 years...

yes that's right the point being raised as that Christianity is not the truth.... or at least not at face value.



You of course are free to believe in the dominate Christian reinvention of the words.... and express your freedom this way... while others are free to see the words how they were before Christianity changed them... and to view Christianity as infiltrators and lier's..

freedom is a wonderful thing.


Christians are either right or wrong, obviously we know we're right! :D Get used to it.

[miracles]

[QUOTE=thirdwave;1000116]read what I said. I said I don't hate at all, so you are wrong.


Mate your a bit weird with this line of thought. Are you having me on or something?

[miracles]

read what I said. I said I don't hate at all, so you are wrong.



I would like to point out that this is a David Icke forum, who has written about the corruptiong and false information within religion. I come here to talk about such topics and recieve and offer information.. be educated and offer education... the only reason there is confrontation is because of the campaigning of Christians that come here to preach to people they are fully aware do not support their faith....

I have no intention of visiting Christians and trying to make them change their faith, it would not be my Forum of choice..

I am not attacking peoples belifes... I am defending them.

You are attacking other peoples beliefs by implying that Luciferians are evil.. or misguided... and you don't always have to willingly attack them... simply refusing to research the info deeper creates an ignorance to the same effect.


Your words, not mine.


I don't think he hates anything really... and I would imagine he realises how much of a waste of time a campaign would be... though he has researched and does provide the information in his books.... he is fully aware of the way religion is not the answer.

Nah, Christinity is being attacked.

I think you are ignoring what Im saying or too busy thinking about what your going to say next while half reading what Ive written.

You make a fair point about it being a David Icke site and his views on religion. I think "christians" (ie human beings with a particular faith) end up here IE on an icke site, because of their fascination with all things current in the world and other peopls views on the cionspiracy theorires etc etec the powres that be, illumionati etc. I would say if a christian ends up here, the last thing on his mind is christianity and preaching and probably the last thing he expects to find here are died in the wool luciferian anti-chirsts like you. Icke wouldnt like you, your very religious.

I just wonder why you guys who are so super spiritual educated, enlightened and loving and religious feel the need to attack other beliefs, I mean, all your threads are in the religious forum. Has David Icke become a religion? "Everyone else is blind, I'm awake". Sounds a bit spooky when you look down deep at the meaning of a statement like that. Kind of cultish? Kind of new age spiritual leaderish? No?

[thirdwave]

Mate your a bit weird with this line of thought. Are you having me on or something?

You need to reassess what evil is.. and what hating good is...

then you may well find more sense in my answer.

[miracles]

You need to reassess what evil is.. and what hating good is...

then you may well find more sense in my answer.

No I think if you read what ive said, you will see that I agree with you on that point. But oh noooooooooooooo, you wouldnt want to be seen to have anyone like me agree with you. Perish the thought. We better twist the shit of the facts as usual.

[uncia]

No it is not.. it is to point out the complete ignorance and bullshit that has been around for the last 1600 years...
The word "Lucifer" owes its entire existence in English to its biblical usage. If it had not been used in the Vulgate, it would not be present in the English vocabulary. There are hundreds and thousands of Roman and Latin words that are obsolete because no one ever found it necessary to import them into English.

Fact is that it was Christians who imported "Lucifer" into the English vocabulary and so it is Christians who determined the meaning.

What Satanists are now doing is to usurp Christian words for their own purposes. Sorry, we can see through your deceptions.

[thirdwave]

Nah, Christinity is being attacked.


If that's works better for you then go for it.


I think you are ignoring what Im saying or too busy thinking about what your going to say next while half reading what Ive written.

that would explain why I'm quoting each sentence? and replying to them.
lol

I think you are starting to get fed up with talking to a person who does not intake bullshit very easily.

You make a fair point about it being a David Icke site and his views on religion. I think "christians" (ie human beings with a particular faith) end up here IE on an icke site, because of their fascination with all things current in the world and other peopls views on the cionspiracy theorires etc etec the powres that be, illumionati etc.

And they are more than welcome to do so... however, for them to have a problem with why some members here are going on about how corrupt religion and christinaity is, it would then be like them trying to rearrange the living room, when as far as I can see there was no problems with how it was.

it is a confrontational place to come and preach the word of God...

I would say if a christian ends up here, the last thing on his mind is christianity and preaching and probably the last thing he expects to find here are died in the wool luciferian anti-chirsts like you.

Well you have contributed to ever confrontational Christian thread... so I'm sure you have some kind of expectancy... its a forum for all, but it is a bit arrogent to disregard the forums creators works and imply people are wrong for getting stuck into it.

Regarding David Icke and Lucifer and so on... TBH he has not really gone into Lucifer and not gone into much depth on Satan and so on.. admittedly he called the elite "Satanists" but also in webcasts and stuff he imply's it is simply a tag.. a familiar word used, which highlights the depth he goes into it.

I am not trying to tell people what will save the world... I'm simply defending information... and people can make of that what they will...

But more importantly, it if you who had a problem with your doctrine being criticised... which is why I pointed the forum out to you..

I have been called all kinds of things here and I come to expect it.

My reason for coming here is simply to receive and pass on info...

where you guys am more worried about people listening to Icke more than Jesus.

The bottom line is that David Icke has a Luciferian philosophy him self, so its not like I am trying to preach something different anyway... just trying to clarify a few things.

Icke wouldnt like you, your very religious.
I have no say on who Icke likes or not, and would not want to... I think he feels religious people are victims though... I have met David a couple times and think is a great guy... I would have no problem telling him that he is Luciferian and why I think so and how the name has been mis used by the institutions he exposes... and have every confidence he would listen to what I was to say.

I just wonder why you guys who are so super spiritual educated and and religious feel the need to mock other beliefs,

I mock stupidity because I have grown tired of it.

I would not mock a person for choosing to belive in Jesus Christ because it works for them, I have made this clear so many times...

However, if they are going to bullshit me about what words mean and lie and smear to make the bible out to be the all truthfull word of God, then I will mock that stipidity and take great pleasure in crushing it.. as it is of no use to anyone.

if you can just admit, that Satan and Lucifer were two different things.... but Christianity brought them together as the one enemy .... and this is the only reason some see them as the same and evil.... and you choose to believe this despite alternative info showing them to be competently different because of your faith in Jesus...

then I would not perticualy understand you... but I would respect your will.... your faith is something I cant fault of comment on... its up to you and I cant argue with it.... would not want to, and don't need to.

information?, I can.





.... I mean, all your threads are in the religious forum. IE David Icke has become a religion.

[miracles]

If that's works better for you then go for it.



that would explain why I'm quoting each sentence? and replying to them.
lol

I think you are starting to get fed up with talking to a person who does not intake bullshit very easily.



And they are more than welcome to do so... however, for them to have a problem with why some members here are going on about how corrupt religion and christinaity is, it would then be like them trying to rearrange the living room, when as far as I can see there was no problems with how it was.

it is a confrontational place to come and preach the word of God...



Well you have contributed to ever confrontational Christian thread... so I'm sure you have some kind of expectancy... its a forum for all, but it is a bit arrogent to disregard the forums creators works and imply people are wrong for getting stuck into it.

Regarding David Icke and Lucifer and so on... TBH he has not really gone into Lucifer and not gone into much depth on Satan and so on.. admittedly he called the elite "Satanists" but also in webcasts and stuff he imply's it is simply a tag.. a familiar word used, which highlights the depth he goes into it.

I am not trying to tell people what will save the world... I'm simply defending information... and people can make of that what they will...

But more importantly, it if you who had a problem with your doctrine being criticised... which is why I pointed the forum out to you..

I have been called all kinds of things here and I come to expect it.

My reason for coming here is simply to receive and pass on info...

where you guys am more worried about people listening to Icke more than Jesus.

The bottom line is that David Icke has a Luciferian philosophy him self, so its not like I am trying to preach something different anyway... just trying to clarify a few things.


I have no say on who Icke likes or not, and would not want to... I think he feels religious people are victims though... I have met David a couple times and think is a great guy... I would have no problem telling him that he is Luciferian and why I think so and how the name has been mis used by the institutions he exposes... and have every confidence he would listen to what I was to say.



I mock stupidity because I have grown tired of it.

I would not mock a person for choosing to belive in Jesus Christ because it works for them, I have made this clear so many times...

However, if they are going to bullshit me about what words mean and lie and smear to make the bible out to be the all truthfull word of God, then I will mock that stipidity and take great pleasure in crushing it.. as it is of no use to anyone.

if you can just admit, that Satan and Lucifer were two different things.... but Christianity brought them together as the one enemy .... and this is the only reason some see them as the same and evil.... and you choose to believe this despite alternative info showing them to be competently different because of your faith in Jesus...

then I would not perticualy understand you... but I would respect your will.... your faith is something I cant fault of comment on... its up to you and I cant argue with it.... would not want to, and don't need to.

information?, I can.





.... I mean, all your threads are in the religious forum. IE David Icke has become a religion.

I was getting a bit fed up with the good and evil thing, after I had already said I didnt think luciferians where evil, about 48 posts back. The thing is I have proof in my hot little hand that he bible is inspired by God, so what ever you throw at irrefuteble poof won't stick. AGAIN, I don't come here to preach, although I find myself defending a biblical faith, purely for the enjoyment of spirited debate, I might add. I'm not on a crusade, nor am I on the attack.

But again, I do take your point regarding David Icke's sites view on religion, I havent read his books, Ive only seen some of his youtube presentations, none where on religion from memory.

However if this place is what you think it is, then surely the problem is solved by not allowing Christians to comment, especially since you feel like you are "defending: yoursle ffrom christians. If someone started a post with a rider in the thread Topic, Christians please do not comment out of respect for non christians who want to have a debate, then I would not comment.

I've seen some Christians sites who heavenly monitor/moderate any anti -Christian senitiment on them. Perhaps you guys just need to moderate and monitor the Christians out of the picture. otherwise it's a bit childish to winge about Christians being here dont you think?

[thirdwave]

I was getting a bit fed up with the good and evil thing, after I had already said I didnt think luciferians where evil, about 48 posts back. The thing is I have proof in my hot little hand that he bible is inspired by God, so what ever you throw at irrefuteble poof won't stick.

Ok you tried to patronise them... in a general term... implying they are just tricked by Lucifer.. rather than being evil them selves... nice of you, but no more clued up.

and not only do I think your claim you can prove the bible is the word of god as bullshit but I also find it funny..



AGAIN, I don't come here to preach, although I find myself defending a biblical faith, purely for the enjoyment of spirited debate, I might add. I'm not on a crusade, nor am I on the attack.
Cool, I will admit I do attack Christian information.. not Christians...

But again, I do take your point regarding David Icke's sites view on religion, I havent read his books, Ive only seen some of his youtube presentations, none where on religion from memory.

allow me to pass on one of his quotes... which I like.

"God save us from religion"

Also he has stated many times how the bible has been mistranslated and is a confused document... he has not said he does not believe Jesus existed.. but he said it is very likely he did not exists.

He has also been on the AJ radio show debating it with him.


However if this place is what you think it is, then surely the problem is solved by not allowing Christians to comment, especially since you feel like you are "defending: yoursle ffrom christians.

No I perosnly enjoy them commenting as it provided a good platform for real info to get out their.... and its good to expose the trickerly in religious mind control.. and how it works...

again I point out it is you who raised an issue with this debate.

I would like nothing more than to confront a christian with christian information.


If someone started a post with a rider in the thread Topic, Christians please do not comment out of respect for non Christians who want to have a debate, then I would not comment.

thats cool.


I've seen some Christians sites who heavenly monitor/moderate any anti -Christian senitiment on them. Perhaps you guys just need to moderate and monitor the Christians out of the picture. otherwise it's a bit childish to winge about Christians being here dont you think?

lol. not really sure what your talking about... I have not winged about them being here (although I can think of more knowledgeable people to come to the table) It was YOU who had a problem with peoples like me attacking christinaity here... I just pointed out that maybe you should not be so shocked to see it here :)

just to remind you there.

and I say again I have no intention of going out there trying to tell Christians not to be Christians... its none of my business... I do post here, and i like to post info and converse about alternative information that goes ignored and I am more than happy to challenge any Christian research that comes my way.

[miracles]

Ok you tried to patronise them... in a general term... implying they are just tricked by Lucifer.. rather than being evil them selves... nice of you, but no more clued up.

and not only do I think your claim you can prove the bible is the word of god as bullshit but I also find it funny..




Cool, I will admit I do attack Christian information.. not Christians...



allow me to pass on one of his quotes... which I like.

"God save us from religion"

Also he has stated many times how the bible has been mistranslated and is a confused document... he has not said he does not believe Jesus existed.. but he said it is very likely he did not exists.

He has also been on the AJ radio show debating it with him.



No I perosnly enjoy them commenting as it provided a good platform for real info to get out their.... and its good to expose the trickerly in religious mind control.. and how it works...

again I point out it is you who raised an issue with this debate.

I would like nothing more than to confront a christian with christian information.



thats cool.




lol. not really sure what your talking about... I have not winged about them being here (although I can think of more knowledgeable people to come to the table) It was YOU who had a problem with peoples like me attacking christinaity here... I just pointed out that maybe you should not be so shocked to see it here :)

just to remind you there.

and I say again I have no intention of going out there trying to tell Christians not to be Christians... its none of my business... I do post here, and i like to post info and converse about alternative information that goes ignored and I am more than happy to challenge any Christian research that comes my way.

Cool, no issue here.Your mild compared to many. Shocked, me? That's a funny one. Im open to any info/proof/evidence you can give me that will show me clearly that the bible, christianity and jesus etc is a mind control tool created by the powers that be and that its fake. Im very open to all information. I will say though I have seen a lot of it (not that I've seen yours) and well, its absolute tripe that even an athiest and muslim can tell you its tripe.

[danceswithbunnies]

Um Im not a mathmatician but I know 1 plus 1 equals 2 and not three. :D You need to read Ivan Panins work from a mathmatical perspective then, there is a billion x a billion billions chance that the bible was not written by a supernatual intelligence. IE no chance. Thats irrefuteable chum. Do the maths. Lol.


1 plus 1 can equal zero IF i am working in Modulo 2.

The fact that you think that Ivan Panin's work is "irrefutable" is just evidence that you do not understand probability...

Most Creationists make the same mistake when they start talking about the probability of intelligent design, and how the universe could not have come about by chance..it is an understandable mistake because many people haven't been exposed to critical thinking or probability..neither are easy subjects.

All of this Bible code nonsense is just more evidence that man is willing to deceive himself.

[miracles]

1 plus 1 can equal zero IF i am working in Modulo 2.

The fact that you think that Ivan Panin's work is "irrefutable" is just evidence that you do not understand probability...

Most Creationists make the same mistake when they start talking about the probability of intelligent design, and how the universe could not have come about by chance..it is an understandable mistake because many people haven't been exposed to critical thinking or probability..neither are easy subjects.

All of this Bible code nonsense is just more evidence that man is willing to deceive himself.

Thanks Einstein. It's not bible code. It's numerics, nor is it hidden. The fact that I know Ivan Panins Work is irrefuteable is because it is. 40 years of his life devoted to the work, alone. That's not easy. you havent even read any of his work, yet you have the arrogance to debunk it with a wave of your Modulo 2 hand. Its done and dusted mate, it's been settled for nearly 70 years.
What is the probabilty of a billion x a billion billions chance that something is a fluke? I didn't make that probability up by the way.

[danceswithbunnies]

The universe doesn't simply come out of nowhere all of the sudden. It's illogical and anyone with intellect knows.

The fact someone doesn't like (the idea of) creationism is no reason to become a fancy materialist.

I did not say i was a materialist that is your projection.

The fact is that you did not like what i said and chose to insult me, is that your idea of "intellect"?
Interesting.

What i am saying is that the argument that the universe could not occur by natural forces is incorrect...

So it is "illogical" that "the universe doesn't come out of nowhere all of a sudden".

What is "nowhere" and what is "all of a sudden"
Are these your "scientific terms"?

[truth is your job]

I did not say i was a materialist that is your projection.

The fact is that you did not like what i said and chose to insult me, is that your idea of "intellect"?
Interesting.

What i am saying is that the argument that the universe could not occur by natural forces is incorrect...

So it is "illogical" that "the universe doesn't come out of nowhere all of a sudden".

What is "nowhere" and what is "all of a sudden"
Are these your "scientific terms"?

Did I hit such a big nerve there with one little term? And now you're trying to fool others with your subconscious versions of circular reasoning?

To get back to the actual thread:
Jesus is Jesus, Horus is Horus. Perhaps Jesus made the older myth come 'alive'? Certain similarities in Christianity and older faiths have bene implemented by the church.

[danceswithbunnies]

Thanks Einstein. It's not bible code. It's numerics, nor is it hidden. The fact that I know Ivan Panins Work is irrefuteable is because it is. 40 years of his life devoted to the work, alone. That's not easy. you havent even read any of his work, yet you have the arrogance to debunk it with a wave of your Modulo 2 hand. Its done and dusted mate, it's been settled for nearly 70 years.
What is the probabilty of a billion x a billion billions chance that something is a fluke? I didn't make that probability up by the way.

The modulo two was a counterexample of your assertion that one plus one always equals two...interesting that you mixed it up with your other assertion.


No it is not "done and dusted mate"..cherry picking things from the bible and making assertions about their probability just does not make it so..

Ivan Panin's "irrefutable proof" is largely the result of cherry picking data...may i suggest that you understand that YOU are arrogant enough to make the assertion that Ivan Panin is "irrefutable" ..do you know how to show that or not?

[kidsarocker]

Christians are either right or wrong, obviously we know we're right! :D Get used to it.

And you might be wrong also

[danceswithbunnies]

Did I hit such a big nerve there with one little term? Gosh. And now you're trying to fool others with your subconscious versions of circular reasoning.

To get back to the actual thread:
Jesus is Jesus, Horus is Horus. Perhaps Jesus made the older myth come 'alive'? Certain similarities in Christianity and older faiths have bene implemented by the church.

No sweetie you didn't.Maybe you should look up psychological projection.

You are the one who jumped in and asserted that natural cause creation was "illogical" and that only people without intellect would think so...then try to distract from the actual point i made by pointing the finger at me personally instead of what i said.


Back to your original assertion:
"The universe doesn't simply come out of nowhere all of the sudden"
Prove it.

[danceswithbunnies]

And you might be wrong also


Myopia of self righteousness does not allow the entertainment of such thoughts.

[aonghus36]

Lucifer was actually a Roman Pagan God. Reference to this deity can be found in the book called "Metamorphoses" by Ovid.





Word play. The name "Lucifier" in the KJV expressly denotes the King of Babylon's pretensions to be the morning star. But he was not the true morning star. Christ was.

The name Lucifer is not a biblical name. It simply means "the bright morning star".

Lucifier as a name can mean whatever you want it to mean. In fact actual people have been named "Lucifer".

However the KJV never gives the name Lucifer to Christ.



No. The single usage of Lucifier in Isaiah 14 refers to the King of Babylon whom himself is a type and representative of Satan. Milton was right to call Satan by the name Lucifer.

[kidsarocker]

Yes... but lets not pretend they used to kill people for believing in Jesus... as thats bullshit... they used to kill pagans... they delivered the bible to you... no one else.



Of course..... no doubt in my mind.



No they are not... they are simply ceasing from useing it as the main tool of western mind control... and are not so bothered about people seeing through it any more... they no longer need to to control the masses as much as they used to...



Well for a start your "them" comment shows the level of ignorence you come from as Murdock is not "them" ... and the other Authors are not the people who kill people today... this is just fabrication you are useing...

and they do not contain lies, they contain knowledge .. and education.

not that a little common sense to begin with will lead you on track anyway.


Today we are living in times of awakening... and this is why all religions are being torn to bits... it is not even difficult to do. In the past people have been unbelievable suckers in believing in the false face the bible has and we see on this forum concerned Christians panicking about THEIR FAITH and trying to make others up hold it.


I don't believe the elite want any of us spiritual unless it is to worship them and their cause...

they are more than aware that many of us are going though spiritual change so of course they will try to effect that... but implying that are trying to keep us away from Jesus as he is going to save the day is laughable IMO.

Being awake and aware to their agenda is not a spiritual change, there are lots to do, and a lot are not even feeding their spirit but are carrying on feeding their body.

To feed your soul you must rid yourself of unhealthy foods, possessions, make up,throw that TV, car etc out - you must eat healthy foods, exercise, create your own energy, grow your own food essentially live on what God provided you because at the end of the day we are still cogs in the system. How many of you have turned your back on worldly pleasures?

[lhaull]

How many of you have turned your back on worldly pleasures?

Ok, now I'm curious.

What worldly pleasures are you refering to?
What exactly is a worldly pleasure in your book, or the good book?

To feed your soul you must rid yourself of unhealthy foods, possessions, make up,throw that TV, car etc out - you must eat healthy foods, exercise, create your own energy, grow your own food essentially live on what God provided you because at the end of the day we are still cogs in the system

Make up?

Is it ok to say, use a spade to dig the garden to grow my own food or is the spade a worldy pleasure?

Or if I use matches to light a fire to cook the potato's I grew, is that a worldly pleasure?

The TV is out, and the car, and all my possessions so I'm naked, with no matches and no spade, and no money, and thanks to being made in the image of God I have no fur to keep me warm, no claws to dig in the earth for grubs to eat, and if I did eat them then I would catch some disease becasue my immune system is not strong enough to deal with the bugs and dirty water I would have to drink.

So basically, if I strive to be cold, naked, hungry, penniless, homeless, while making sure I am wearing no make up = the way to feed my soul?




ERMMMM, I think I'll stick to meditation.

[uncia]

Lucifer was actually a Roman Pagan God. Reference to this deity can be found in the book called "Metamorphoses" by Ovid.
Thanks for filling in a hole in my knowledge. I see he was only a minor god (http://www.unrv.com/culture/minor-roman-god-list.php) though, but some interesting comments here (http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art49432.asp) on the adoption of Lucifer into the English Vocabulary.

I think you have to take what this lady says with a pinch of salt: when she says "ancient beliefs of the Hebrews" she means "ancient beliefs of the Canaanites" who pre-dated the Hebrews in Syria. The god Shahar is not a Hebrew / Israelite god but found in Ugarit, a Canaanite port and cultic-centre.

[thirdwave]

Im open to any info/proof/evidence you can give me that will show me clearly that the bible, christianity and jesus etc is a mind control tool created by the powers that be and that its fake.

thats kind of a genrelised view on what we are saying.. however I do not belive you are open to it at all. :), I think you are 100% in denial about it and even if we invented time travel and went back in time and saw the bible being faked your faith would still see you though what you would view as the deception of "Satan"...

Im very open to all information.

this thread shows otherwise..


I will say though I have seen a lot of it (not that I've seen yours) and well, its absolute tripe that even an athiest and muslim can tell you its tripe.
Well tell me what you like... but it wont make the info vanish... the truth will always shine through at some stage...

[thirdwave]

Being awake and aware to their agenda is not a spiritual change, there are lots to do, and a lot are not even feeding their spirit but are carrying on feeding their body.

To feed your soul you must rid yourself of unhealthy foods, possessions, make up,throw that TV, car etc out - you must eat healthy foods, exercise, create your own energy, grow your own food essentially live on what God provided you because at the end of the day we are still cogs in the system. How many of you have turned your back on worldly pleasures?

You talk as is there is some set plan on how we find our own enlightenment, which I do not agree with...

I think we all have our own path and I dont wish to tell any man what path to walk as i don't expect it back...

I don't believe our mission is to turn away from our worldly pleasures.. I just think we need to be in control of them... the mind is the most powerful thing there is and this is what people need to look after in any way they can...

advice on doing so is always good but not dictation.

I like watching sport... i like beer and I sometimes eat junk food... I have no plans on changing that at the moment as my efforts are focused on others things which bring me the peace of mind I want... in time maybe that will change...

bottom line... you can say that eating this or that is bad for you... but you can also say that worrying about everything you eat is also bad for you...

or putting in the extra work hours so you can afforded it is bad for you...

the bottom line is what state your mind is in... even if you are going to die that is what is important.

[thirdwave]

The word "Lucifer" owes its entire existence in English to its biblical usage.

No, and it does not matter ... what the world has been translated from and where it came from is what matters... you are simply encouraging ignorance by not questioning beyond what surrounds you...


If it had not been used in the Vulgate, it would not be present in the English vocabulary. There are hundreds and thousands of Roman and Latin words that are obsolete because no one ever found it necessary to import them into English.

It is not about the translated word Lucifer.... it is what it means... the world clearly means light barer... and it represents Venus.. and the morning star... and the story of Lucifer was also taken from older Greek myths... for example Prometheus was Lucifer.

the way you are talking is when we create a word to depict another word from another country, it no longer has the same meaning..

I would be happy to go by the title "Aton" is you like.


Fact is that it was Christians who imported "Lucifer" into the English vocabulary and so it is Christians who determined the meaning.
lol, actually the word was later added by King James... so it was not even included in the original scriptures.. and it was not created by christians, it was a Roman thing...

but you can dwell on who created the Enlglish title... and you can believe what the face value bible says...

but just in case you want to research what the Morning star is... why he is called the "barer of light" ... and where the story of Lucifer came from...

then at some point you are going to have to except it was not a Christian creation... and they have not got it right..

oh, and Christians also did not create the word Christian... it was taken from the Greek word Kristos which means messiah (anointed one).... makes you wander what kind of "Kristos" is being talked about in some old texts... there could have been dozens..


What Satanists are now doing is to usurp Christian words for their own purposes. Sorry, we can see through your deceptions.
Its quite clear and obvious the elite are not going to lead everyone into a NWO useing the control of Jesus Christ...

Try telling a Muslim.. a Jew... and visa versa...

incase you hav e not noticed things are changing.. we see the banks are full of shit... we see the government are full of shit... we see the wars are full of shit.... and guess what?.... religion is also full of shit.

the NWO is the end game ... the movie where the killer gets found out and he pulls out his pistol in defence....

but it is not very hard from them to expose Christianity... as its simply there to see... morally and factually.... and with common sense.

people will turn to religion when confused... not liberated.

[miracles]

thats kind of a genrelised view on what we are saying.. however I do not belive you are open to it at all. :), I think you are 100% in denial about it and even if we invented time travel and went back in time and saw the bible being faked your faith would still see you though what you would view as the deception of "Satan"...



this thread shows otherwise..


Well tell me what you like... but it wont make the info vanish... the truth will always shine through at some stage...

Its presumptious of you to say that. PM me some stuff if you like. Or direct me to the best sources. Using a time travel example is like me saying if Jesus woke you up and said see, Im real, you'd say prove it. Stupid aint it! Keep it real. At the moment you are just arguing, you arent forthcoming with any evidence, and when I categorically state that I am open to view the evidence you say no Im not. It's, well, I don't know - tedious. I took the time to answer your questions on previous threads. Send me some proof or give it a rest, or we are just going to go round and round.

If you are going to send something make it an easy to understand introductory eye opener pack as if to a 5 year old, please. Dont do a tsarion on me and say "do your research"

Further more, you guys know what a Christian believes, you know what our text is. I dont know what any of you guys believe or what your text is, or your teachers, so any informed debate is just a talkfest/arguement fest. You all like to make out your awakend to this stuff all by yoursleves. In other words it's a bit of an ego trip. There is nothing new under the sun!

[thirdwave]

Its presumptious of you to say that. PM me some stuff if you like. Or direct me to the best sources. this is further proof of it going over your head... why do i need to PM you anything you have heard the case on this forum.. you chose to overlook it as you belive the bible is the word of god regardless of anything else that is pointed out here...

Using a time travel example is like me saying if Jesus woke you up and said see, Im real, you'd say prove it. Stupid aint it! Keep it real. it was an example of your denyal.


At the moment you are just arguing, you arent forthcoming with any evidence, Because I dont with to repeat my self over and over talking to an ignorent christian.

and when I categorically state that I am open to view the evidence you say no Im not. It's, well, I don't know - tedious. I took the time to answer your questions on previous threads. Send me some proof or give it a rest, or we are just going to go round and round.

Well...errr, ok. What do you think of this thread and the points raised about this book.. ?, do you understand what is being pointed out?, if so explain.

If you are going to send something make it an easy to understand introductory eye opener pack as if to a 5 year old, please. Dont do a tsarion on me and say "do your research"

But to be honest I don't care if you believe me or not... its up to you... I am just supporting info in this open thread.... the bottom line is the info is excessable.. neither you are eye have control over it.... there are many many people who belive this information to be spot on... a growing nuber of people.

Further more, you guys know what a Christian believes, you know what our text is. I dont know what any of you guys believe or what your text is, or your teachers, so any informed debate is just a talkfest/arguement fest. thats becuse I dont have any texts I dogmaticly follow.. and would not recoment any for anyone to follow... I read lots and lots of diforent texts and take on board whats right for me.. and sometimes I change my belief and faith...

this week i might like Lucifer... next week I might like Jesus... the week after I might be an Atheist... the week later maybe a Satanist... then might go back to liking Lucifer again... and just go with what ever I want....


You all like to make out your awakend to this stuff all by your selves. In other words it's a bit of an ego trip. There is nothing new under the sun!

Oh yes there is... everyday its new...

but it seems you are now just trying to criticise me again for taking my stance..

I do agree that your ignorance with this will actually work and it will make Jesus more real... I assure you of this... and it will even be effective... the more you focus your will and attention of Jesus.. he will be more real and he will be there...

Just as others can do the same with any god they chose.

[miracles]

[QUOTE]thats becuse I dont have any texts I dogmaticly follow.. and would not recoment any for anyone to follow... I read lots and lots of diforent texts and take on board whats right for me.. and sometimes I change my belief and faith...

this week i might like Lucifer... next week I might like Jesus... the week after I might be an Atheist... the week later maybe a Satanist... then might go back to liking Lucifer again... and just go with what ever I want....

Great, I'll try to keep up then. LOL.

Blown about by the winds of all manner of strange doctrine. Spings to mind.

I got to page 31 of the thread, interstingly enough the first post was spot on showing absolutely no similatities. Lol. Then you started on about the place being invested with Christians trying to desperatly defend their dieng faith. What a laugh. You know what, you guys are lucky Christians even bother to humour you by entering into to discussions about this stuff. It looks like your all playng guessing cames, its a hoot. Great entertainement you think your like a spritual columbus discovering the new frontier. But in reality it's very sad really. I blame people like tsarion for this. He has got you duped, you have to hand it to him, he is definitely a svengali type.

[thirdwave]

Great, I'll try to keep up then. LOL.

Blown about by the winds of all manner of strange doctrine. Spings to mind.

I got to page 31 of the thread, interstingly enough the first post was spot on showing absolutely no similatities. Lol.

Its not for me to force feed you :).. if you don't want to eat then don't... means jack shit to me :)


Then you started on about the place being invested with Christians trying to desperatly defend their dieng faith. What a laugh.

and you are proof I am right.

But it was you guys who began the character assassination.. which is normally the case... but you do it in the name of the bible and "god", so it is more righteous of course...


You know what, you guys are lucky Christians even bother to humour you by entering into to discussions about this stuff.

Humour being the right word :)

It looks like your all playng guessing cames, its a hoot. Great entertainement you think your like a spritual columbus discovering the new frontier. But in reality it's very sad really. I blame people like tsarion for this. He has got you duped, you have to hand it to him, he is definitely a svengali type.


I am thoroughly enthusiastic and inspired by the the way religion is exposed today and people like Murdock and Tsarion have my full support in most of the stuff they put out there...

My concern is not those who are to immature to grow out of it, as they have had long enough to do so.... I am interested in truth being laid down for new gardens to grow.

and if people find a garden for Christianity after this, then good for them, bugger all to do with me.

its all about truth and freedom, not oppression lies and restriction.

Its shocking some need to be taught this... no, not shocking, frightening.

[miracles]

Its not for me to force feed you :).. if you don't want to eat then don't... means jack shit to me :)



and you are proof I am right.

But it was you guys who began the character assassination.. which is normally the case... but you do it in the name of the bible and "god", so it is more righteous of course...



Humour being the right word :)


I am thoroughly enthusiastic and inspired by the the way religion is exposed today and people like Murdock and Tsarion have my full support in most of the stuff they put out there...

My concern is not those who are to immature to grow out of it, as they have had long enough to do so.... I am interested in truth being laid down for new gardens to grow.

and if people find a garden for Christianity after this, then good for them, bugger all to do with me.

its all about truth and freedom, not oppression lies and restriction.

Its shocking some need to be taught this... no, not shocking, frightening.

No not character assasination, like you Im only assasinating the doctrines of deceipt. I like tsarion and a lot of what he has to say, but I dont like where he takes it and how he uses it to blind people to the truth. Thats whats frightening, becuase so many of you genuine blokes are buying it.

[thirdwave]

No not character assasination, like you Im only assasinating the doctrines of deceipt.

this very tone is naturaly oppressive... because you chose your faith over the views of others so much that you see their view as deceipt.

you have no evidence any of the bible is true... none whats so ever.... yet you will call someone deceitful for doubting it or challenging it.

It is 110% character assassination... with the bias of blind self righteousness..

you continuously look at the texts at face value like 1 man really walked on water, really turned water into wine... rose from the dead... and so on... and you are happy to see that as undeniable facts.... but when someone points out the deeper implications and how other past Gods had exactly the same... you will not make the effort to look deeper into what's being said... and not just that but you will label them deceitful!

Horus and Jesus are two of the same symbols.... And unbiased thorough research makes this very very likely.

I like tsarion and a lot of what he has to say, but I dont like where he takes it and how he uses it to blind people to the truth. Thats whats This

Well this a Huge part of Tsarions works.. so you obviously don't like him...

and the reason people are interested in the stuff he goes into is because they are actually NOT blind.... and have seen what is not true.

again I point out how you regard your faith as truth.... that's fine, but to expect others to do the same is not only very arrogant but also and insult to others.

I am open to the heeling powers of Shamans... and the power they have over reality... I am even open to maybe magical acts done on earth in history with the influence of higher beings...

However, I think the story in the bible, in a littoral sense, is only for 5 year olds... and I find it staggering how many people (even some pretty intelligent folk) actually buy it! .. because of a handful of contradicting texts the Romans permitted to us all!

Ok I cant say what was there as I was not there, but if you think I am basing my views on god and life on that, then you can think again! lol

shocking.

[miracles]

this very tone is naturaly oppressive... because you chose your faith over the views of others so much that you see their view as deceipt.

you have no evidence any of the bible is true... none whats so ever.... yet you will call someone deceitful for doubting it or challenging it.

It is 110% character assassination... with the bias of blind self righteousness..

you continuously look at the texts at face value like 1 man really walked on water, really turned water into wine... rose from the dead... and so on... and you are happy to see that as undeniable facts.... but when someone points out the deeper implications and how other past Gods had exactly the same... you will not make the effort to look deeper into what's being said... and not just that but you will label them deceitful!

Horus and Jesus are two of the same symbols.... And unbiased thorough research makes this very very likely.



Well this a Huge part of Tsarions works.. so you obviously don't like him...

and the reason people are interested in the stuff he goes into is because they are actually NOT blind.... and have seen what is not true.

again I point out how you regard your faith as truth.... that's fine, but to expect others to do the same is not only very arrogant but also and insult to others.

I am open to the heeling powers of Shamans... and the power they have over reality... I am even open to maybe magical acts done on earth in history with the influence of higher beings...

However, I think the story in the bible, in a littoral sense, is only for 5 year olds... and I find it staggering how many people (even some pretty intelligent folk) actually buy it! .. because of a handful of contradicting texts the Romans permitted to us all!

Ok I cant say what was there as I was not there, but if you think I am basing my views on god and life on that, then you can think again! lol

shocking.

I have lot's of proof the bible is the word of God. :)

[thirdwave]

I have lot's of proof the bible is the word of God. :)

no you dont. you are lying, which of course is a sin :)

[drakul]

no you dont. you are lying, which of course is a sin :)

You demand Miracles read and consider the `proof about Horus being Jesus that is in this thread', when actually there is none. However I have supplied DIRECT TRANSLATIONS OF EGYPTIAN TEMPLE TEXTS stating that Horus committed acts such as MASS HUMAN SACRIFICE and BEHEADING HIS MOTHER ISIS - which YOU have completely IGNORED.

What a hippocrite you are TW! Why don't you do what you demand everyone else who disagrees with you do? Address the evidence - and there is tons of it, that doesn't fit in your little `Horus = Jesus' box??

[drakul]

Horus was far from being any kind Jesus figure.

Horus was a bloodthirsty warrior who committed HUMAN SACRIFICE.

Translation from the texts on walls of the Ptolemaic temple to Horus at Edfu:

Then Horus the Behedet drove his enemies southwards and destroyed them in a region of the south-east and many were killed but others escaped. And he caught them to the NE of Dendera and made a great slaughter with his weapons of iron and his spears and axes.

Then Horus sent out his followers and they hunted down the enemy and they captured many prisoners, one hundred and six from the east and the same number from the west and they were SLAIN BEFORE RE AS A SACRIFICE.

Deal with it - Here

[drakul]

Horus is nowhere near being a Jesus Christ. He was a blood thirsty warrior. In one Egyptian text Horus even CUT OFF HIS MOTHER'S HEAD.

From the Egyptian text - Chester Beatty Papyrus #1:

Then Horus was very angry with Isis for setting Seth free (Seth was Isis' brother), and so he came out of the water and cut off her head with an axe and clasping the head went up into the mountains.

Only an ignoramus or a cold-blooded liar could say with a straight face that Horus was the Egyptian Jesus Christ.

And HERE and there's MORE.

[drakul]

http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/leg/img/pl11.jpg

Horus committing human sacrifice, killing chained prisoner with a spear. (click on drawing to make it larger)

From the temple to Horus at Edfu, Egypt, largest and best preserved cult center for Horus.

[vinnyharris]

drakul "Horus is nowhere near being a Jesus Christ. He was a blood thirsty warrior. In one Egyptian text Horus even CUT OFF HIS MOTHER'S HEAD.

From the Egyptian text - Chester Beatty Papyrus #1:

Then Horus was very angry with Isis for setting Seth free (Seth was Isis' brother), and so he came out of the water and cut off her head with an axe and clasping the head went up into the mountains.

Only an ignoramus or a cold-blooded liar could say with a straight face that Horus was the Egyptian Jesus Christ."

Er, ever heard of "mythology"? That scene you're taking oh so literally is a myth about the constellation Virgo (the VIRGIN) being decapitated by the HORiZUn and is repeated in several Greek myth's too.

Still, Jesus isn't any better drakul:

"The birth of Jesus was heralded with "Peace on Earth," yet Jesus said, "Think not that I am come to send peace: I came not to send peace but a sword." (Matthew 10:34) "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." (Luke 22:36) "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." (Luke 19:27. In a parable, but spoken of favorably.)

The burning of unbelievers during the Inquisition was based on the words of Jesus:

"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6)

Why Jesus?
http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/jesus.php

You're also conveniently omitting where Jesus as a child blinds several people and worse in the Infancy Gospel of Thomas.

[1977]

Isis and Horus even appear in Revelation 12 pretty much as themselves; it's sort of like when Leonard Nimoy had a cameo in the new Star Trek movie. Sort of.

Drakul has his own peculiar brand of Marcionite heresy that is enough to grant him moral superiority over the myriad faiths of heathendom. Don't try to fight his flawless logic, dude.

[thirdwave]

You demand Miracles read and consider the `proof about Horus being Jesus that is in this thread' No I dont... He asked what info I was talking about I then pointed him in the direction... I have made nothing like demands... thats simply more bullshit on your part...


, when actually there is none. is this where I point it out to you and you accuse me of demanding you look at it...

if you want to ignore stuff then ignore it, but dont expect others to follow suit.


However I have supplied DIRECT TRANSLATIONS OF EGYPTIAN TEMPLE TEXTS stating that Horus committed acts such as MASS HUMAN SACRIFICE and BEHEADING HIS MOTHER ISIS - which YOU have completely IGNORED.

All very irrelevant... its quite clear the two stories and beliefs are not identical.. or there would be no issue would there?... of course there are differences... but within both the OT and NT that sacrifice is covered well and truely.. and it does not take away the parallels in symbolic stuff that Horus and Jesus share... not only on face value but deeper research and the works that alternative scholars have discovered...

We know that if you go to wikipidia and look up Horus.. you dont see he was crucifude.. if you did then there would be no issue...

but we are talking about alternative research..hence you need to by pass the official info you treasure... and look at new perspectives... You refuse to do this because of your Dogma... fine... good for you! ... even if you looked at it and genuinely did not agree ...fine then don't agree... but what gives you the right to attack others for finding value in it?


What a hippocrite you are TW! Why don't you do what you demand everyone else who disagrees with you do? Address the evidence - and there is tons of it, that doesn't fit in your little `Horus = Jesus' box??

LOL, talk about desperate.. you guys make me laugh...

Im not making any demands.. I could not give a shit what you think, how many more times need I say that?

I don't need to address anything... go get the book and debunk it if you want... means nothing to me... I support the info and understand it and I believe that Jesus story borrowed from the Horus story... and I will always advice these books and pass them around :)

your false claims about my personality are simply a reflection of your insecurity in this debate...

Jesus fucking Christ this can be hard work! :eek:

[torus]

Jesus had better shoes!!

[drakul]

Er, ever heard of "mythology"? That scene you're taking oh so literally is a myth about the constellation Virgo (the VIRGIN) being decapitated by the HORiZUn and is repeated in several Greek myth's too.


It may be a myth - that was based on reality. Human sacrifice and honor killings were frequently practiced by the ancients. The point is - Jesus BEHEADING his MOTHER is not exactly part of the Christian mythos. But it is part of the HORUS mythos.


Still, Jesus isn't any better drakul:
You're also conveniently omitting where Jesus as a child blinds several people and worse in the Infancy Gospel of Thomas.

That's weak, really weak. There's a reason why the Infancy Gospel of Thomas is not in the Bible. But let's get to the point - Did Jesus kill thousands of people and glory in it? Did Jesus ever kill anyone? Horus was first and foremost THE AVENGER.

Jesus sacrificed himself. Horus did the sacrificial killing. For Horus it was all about POWER to regain his father's kingdom and REVENGE against Seth for his father's death.

Ancient hymn from the temple text, Horus cult center at Edfu:

Rejoice O women of Busiris! Rejoice O women of Pe! Horus has overthrown his enemies! Exalt dwellers in Edfu! Horus the Great Lord of Heaven has smitten his enemies and the enemy of his father. EAT THE FLESH OF THE VANQUISHED, DRINK HIS BLOOD, BURN HIS BONES IN THE FIRE. LET HIM BE CUT TO PIECES AND HIS BONES GIVEN TO THE CATS AND THE REST TO THE REPTILES. O Horus the Striker, The Harpooner, Great One of the Gods, Horus the Avenger!


I think that pretty much says it all.

[drakul]

Isis and Horus even appear in Revelation 12 pretty much as themselves; it's sort of like when Leonard Nimoy had a cameo in the new Star Trek movie. Sort of.

Drakul has his own peculiar brand of Marcionite heresy that is enough to grant him moral superiority over the myriad faiths of heathendom. Don't try to fight his flawless logic, dude.

`Marcionite heresy' - for those of you who don't know, Marcion a Christian bishop from Greek/Asia Minor published the FIRST Bible in 134AD. This Bible was composed of only the NEW TESTAMENT. Marcion believed that the OT god of the Hebrews a god who demanded blood sacrifice and war and revenge was not the same god as the compassionate, loving God of Jesus.

[1977]

That's weak, really weak. There's a reason why the Infancy Gospel of Thomas is not in the Bible. But let's get to the point - Did Jesus kill thousands of people and glory in it? Did Jesus ever kill anyone? Horus was first and foremost THE AVENGER.
And a great parallel it is, too, with the dichotomy of the "suffering servant" and "conquering child". "And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."

Jesus sacrificed himself. Horus did the sacrificial killing. For Horus it was all about POWER to regain his father's kingdom and REVENGE against Seth for his father's death.
Christ and his blood was offered up as a perfect and unblemished sin offering to propitiate the god of Abraham. The whole notion of "sacrifice" as salvation does not work outside of the Jewish context. According to Marcion, of course, Jesus was a sort of noncorporeal phantom that the bumbling Cosmocrator attempted to crucify; but 'twas only an image of their own malevolence that they killed.

"And every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him."

[drakul]

I am still waiting for Egyptian TEMPLE TEXTS which portray Horus as a peaceful commpationate loving JESUS.

[drakul]

And a great parallel it is, too, with the dichotomy of the "suffering servant" and "conquering child". "And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."


Christ and his blood was offered up as a perfect and unblemished sin offering to propitiate the god of Abraham. The whole notion of "sacrifice" as salvation does not work outside of the Jewish context. According to Marcion, of course, Jesus was a sort of noncorporeal phantom that the bumbling Cosmocrator attempted to crucify; but 'twas only an image of their own malevolence that they killed.

"And every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him."

Please do not post quotes without quoting source, page, # etc.

[vinnyharris]

drakul "That's weak, really weak. There's a reason why the Infancy Gospel of Thomas is not in the Bible. But let's get to the point - Did Jesus kill thousands of people and glory in it? Did Jesus ever kill anyone? Horus was first and foremost THE AVENGER.

Jesus sacrificed himself. Horus did the sacrificial killing. For Horus it was all about POWER to regain his father's kingdom and REVENGE against Seth for his father's death.

Ancient hymn from the temple text, Horus cult center at Edfu:

Rejoice O women of Busiris! Rejoice O women of Pe! Horus has overthrown his enemies! Exalt dwellers in Edfu! Horus the Great Lord of Heaven has smitten his enemies and the enemy of his father. EAT THE FLESH OF THE VANQUISHED, DRINK HIS BLOOD, BURN HIS BONES IN THE FIRE. LET HIM BE CUT TO PIECES AND HIS BONES GIVEN TO THE CATS AND THE REST TO THE REPTILES. O Horus the Striker, The Harpooner, Great One of the Gods, Horus the Avenger! "

LOL, that really is weak drakul - sounds like your communion you do on Easter Sunday at church when you drink the blood and east the flesh of Jesus. Yes, the Egyptians had the same ritual long before Christianity.

I especially love how you gloss over the biblical scripture that proves you wrong drakul - you have a tendency to ignore inconvenient facts that get in the way of your agenda, just like any other Christian apologist.

"The most revealing aspect of his character was his promotion of eternal torment. "The Son of man [Jesus himself] shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 13:41-42) "And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched." (Mark 9:43)"
http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/jesus.php

Revelation and Jesus' return killing 1/3rd of human population

"Ever since Christ's death, many Christians have been expecting the second coming in their immediate future. Most believe that Christ will not actually land or stay on earth at this time; the "real" second coming will occur later, when he returns on a horse leading an army on horseback who will exterminate one third of the earth's population in a massive genocide. It will be numerically the largest mass extermination of humans in history."
http://www.religioustolerance.org/rapture.htm

Eventually 2/3rds of the human population i.e. NON-believers are to be wiped out in a mass genocide for not believing in god for which no valid evidence exists whatsoever - nice god ya got there.:eek:

And 44% of Christians are looking forward to this as a glorious time. Even the religious tolerance website says, "It will be numerically the largest mass extermination of humans in history."

Christians look forward to the MURDER of 2/3rds the worlds population that's over 4 BILLION people. Yeah, that's so much better !!!:rolleyes:

[luciferhorus]

Jesus fucking Christ this can be hard work! :eek:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AhGe9uhQ1N0/RcpeblsPTwI/AAAAAAAAAWg/Xv23xeDWisc/s400/72virgins.jpg

Yes Thirdwave, but great shall be your reward in the Kingdom of Hevean for your relentless debunking of the Christ myth; don't forget the 144 Virgins who await you in the Gardens of Paradise as your reward for attacking and deconstructing the nonsense of Christian theology.

As for the Christians....
http://static.flickr.com/49/185528441_75d7b21290_o.jpg




Biblical Contradictions
From http://www.evilbible.com/

If the Bible was divinely inspired, then why would it have so many really obvious contradictions?



Theological doctrines:

1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48
3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28
6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19
9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14
10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
12. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
them
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28
14. God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33
15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8
16. God's anger is fierce and endures long
Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute
Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5
17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,
sacrifices ,and holy days
Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,
sacrifices, and holy days.
Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12
18. God accepts human sacrifices
2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
God forbids human sacrifice
Deut 12:30,31
19. God tempts men
Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
God tempts no man
James 1:13
20. God cannot lie
Heb 6:18
God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9
21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
Gen 6:5,7
Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
Gen 8:21
22. God's attributes are revealed in his works.
Rom 1:20
God's attributes cannot be discovered
Job 11:7/ Is 40:28
23. There is but one God
Deut 6:4
There is a plurality of gods
Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7


Moral Precepts

24. Robbery commanded
Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
Robbery forbidden
Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15
25. Lying approved and sanctioned
Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
Lying forbidden
Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8
26. Hatred to the Edomite sanctioned
2 Kings 14:7,3
Hatred to the Edomite forbidden
Deut 23:7
27. Killing commanded
Ex 32:27
Killing forbidden
Ex 20:13
28. The blood-shedder must die
Gen 9:5,6
The blood-shedder must not die
Gen 4:15
29. The making of images forbidden
Ex 20:4
The making of images commanded
Ex 25:18,20
30. Slavery and oppression ordained
Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8
Slavery and oppression forbidden
Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10
31. Improvidence enjoyed
Matt 6:28,31,34/ Luke 6:30,35/ Luke 12:3
Improvidence condemned
1 Tim 5:8/ Prov 13:22
32. Anger approved
Eph 4:26
Anger disapproved
Eccl 7:9/ Prov 22:24/ James 1:20
33. Good works to be seen of men
Matt 5:16
Good works not to be seen of men
Matt 6:1
34. Judging of others forbidden
Matt 7:1,2
Judging of others approved
1 Cor 6:2-4/ 1 Cor 5:12
35. Christ taught non-resistance
Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52
Christ taught and practiced physical resistance
Luke 22:36/ John 2:15
36. Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed
Luke 12:4
Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed
John 7:1
37. Public prayer sanctioned
1 Kings 8:22,54, 9:3
Public prayer disapproved
Matt 6:5,6
38. Importunity in prayer commended
Luke 18:5,7
Importunity in prayer condemned
Matt 6:7,8
39. The wearing of long hair by men sanctioned
Judg 13:5/ Num 6:5
The wearing of long hair by men condemned
1 Cor 11:14
40. Circumcision instituted
Gen 17:10
Circumcision condemned
Gal 5:2
41. The Sabbath instituted
Ex 20:8
The Sabbath repudiated
Is 1:13/ Rom 14:5/ Col 2:16
42. The Sabbath instituted because God rested on the seventh day
Ex 20:11
The Sabbath instituted because God brought the Israelites
out of Egypt
Deut 5:15
43. No work to be done on the Sabbath under penalty of death
Ex 31:15/ Num 15:32,36
Jesus Christ broke the Sabbath and justified his disciples in
the same
John 5:16/ Matt 12:1-3,5
44. Baptism commanded
Matt 28:19
Baptism not commanded
1 Cor 1:17,14
45. Every kind of animal allowed for food.
Gen 9:3/ 1 Cor 10:25/ Rom 14:14
Certain kinds of animals prohibited for food.
Deut 14:7,8
46. Taking of oaths sanctioned
Num 30:2/ Gen 21:23-24,31/ Gen 31:53/ Heb 6:13
Taking of oaths forbidden
Matt 5:34
47. Marriage approved
Gen 2:18/ Gen 1:28/ Matt 19:5/ Heb 13:4
Marriage disapproved
1 Cor 7:1/ 1 Cor 7:7,8
48. Freedom of divorce permitted
Deut 24:1/ Deut 21:10,11,14
Divorce restricted
Matt 5:32
49. Adultery forbidden
Ex 20:14/ Heb 13:4
Adultery allowed
Num 31:18/ Hos 1:2; 2:1-3
50. Marriage or cohabitation with a sister denounced
Deut 27:22/ Lev 20:17
Abraham married his sister and God blessed the union
Gen 20:11,12/ Gen 17:16
51. A man may marry his brother's widow
Deut 25:5
A man may not marry his brother's widow
Lev 20:21
52. Hatred to kindred enjoined
Luke 14:26
Hatred to kindred condemned
Eph 6:2/ Eph 5:25,29
53. Intoxicating beverages recommended
Prov 31:6,7/ 1 Tim 5:23/ Ps 104:15
Intoxicating beverages discountenanced
Prov 20:1/ Prov 23:31,32
54. It is our duty to obey our rulers, who are God's ministers
and punish evil doers only
Rom 13:1-3,6
It is not our duty to obey rulers, who sometimes punish the
good and receive unto themselves damnation therefor
Ex 1:17,20/ Dan 3:16,18/ Dan 6:9,7,10/ Acts 4:26,27/
Mark 12:38,39,40/ Luke 23:11,24,33,35
55. Women's rights denied
Gen 3:16/ 1 Tim 2:12/ 1 Cor 14:34/ 1 Pet 3:6
Women's rights affirmed
Judg 4:4,14,15/ Judg 5:7/ Acts 2:18/ Acts 21:9
56. Obedience to masters enjoined
Col 3:22,23/ 1 Pet 2:18
Obedience due to God only
Matt 4:10/ 1 Cor 7:23/ Matt 23:10
57. There is an unpardonable sin
Mark 3:29
There is not unpardonable sin
Acts 13:39


Historical Facts

58. Man was created after the other animals
Gen 1:25,26,27
Man was created before the other animals
Gen 2:18,19
59. Seed time and harvest were never to cease
Gen 8:22
Seed time and harvest did cease for seven years
Gen 41:54,56/ Gen 45:6
60. God hardened Pharaoh's heart
Ex 4:21/ Ed 9:12
Pharaoh hardened his own heart
Ex 8:15
61. All the cattle and horses in Egypt died
Ex 9:3,6/ 14:9
All the horses of Egypt did not die
Ex 14:9
62. Moses feared Pharaoh
Ex 2:14,15,23; 4:19
Moses did not fear Pharaoh
Heb 11:27
63. There died of the plague twenty-four thousand
Num 25:9
There died of the plague but twenty-three thousand
1 Cor 10:8
64. John the Baptist was Elias
Matt 11:14
John the Baptist was not Elias
John 1:21
65. The father of Joseph, Mary's husband was Jacob
Matt 1:16
The father of Mary's husband was Heli
Luke 3:23
66. The father of Salah was Arphaxad
Gen 11:12
The father of Salah was Cainan
Luke 3:35,36
67. There were fourteen generations from Abraham to David
Matt 1:17
There were but thirteen generations from Abraham to David
Matt 1:2-6
68. There were fourteen generations from the Babylonian captivity
to Christ.
Matt 1:17
There were but thirteen generations from the Babylonian
captivity to Christ
Matt 1:12-16
69. The infant Christ was taken into Egypt
Matt 2:14,15,19,21,23
The infant Christ was not taken into Egypt
Luke 2:22, 39
70. Christ was tempted in the wilderness
Mark 1:12,13
Christ was not tempted in the wilderness
John 2:1,2
71. Christ preached his first sermon on the mount
Matt 5:1,2
Christ preached his first sermon on the plain
Luke 6:17,20
72. John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee
Mark 1:14
John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee
John 1:43/ John 3:22-24
73. Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with a staff
and sandals
Mark 6:8,9
Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with neither
staffs nor sandals.
Matt 10:9,10
74. A woman of Canaan besought Jesus
Matt 15:22
It was a Greek woman who besought Him
Mark 7:26
75. Two blind men besought Jesus
Matt 20:30
Only one blind man besought Him
Luke 18:35,38
76. Christ was crucified at the third hour
Mark 15:25
Christ was not crucified until the sixth hour
John 19:14,15
77. The two thieves reviled Christ.
Matt 27:44/ Mark 15:32
Only one of the thieves reviled Christ
Luke 23:39,40
78. Satan entered into Judas while at supper
John 13:27
Satan entered into him before the supper
Luke 22:3,4,7
79. Judas committed suicide by hanging
Matt 27:5
Judas did not hang himself, but died another way
Acts 1:18
80. The potter's field was purchased by Judas
Acts 1:18
The potter's field was purchased by the Chief Priests
Matt 27:6,7
81. There was but one woman who came to the sepulchre
John 20:1
There were two women who came to the sepulchre
Matt 28:1
82. There were three women who came to the sepulchre
Mark 16:1
There were more than three women who came to the sepulchre
Luke 24:10
83. It was at sunrise when they came to the sepulchre
Mark 16:2
It was some time before sunrise when they came.
John 20:1
84. There were two angels seen by the women at the sepulchre, and
they were standing up.
Luke 24:4
There was but one angel seen, and he was sitting down.
Matt 28:2,5
85. There were two angels seen within the sepulchre.
John 20:11,12
There was but one angel seen within the sepulchre
Mark 16:5
86. Christ was to be three days and three nights in the grave
Matt 12:40
Christ was but two days and two nights in the grave
Mark 15:25,42,44,45,46; 16:9>
87. Holy ghost bestowed at pentecost
Acts 1:8,5
Holy ghost bestowed before pentecost
John 20:22
88. The disciples were commanded immediately after the
resurrection to go into Galilee
Matt 28:10
The disciples were commanded immediately after the
resurrection to go tarry at Jerusalem
Luke 24:49
89. Jesus first appeared to the eleven disciples in a room at
Jerusalem
Luke 24:33,36,37/ John 20:19
Jesus first appeared to the eleven on a mountain in Galilee
Matt 28:16,17
90. Christ ascended from Mount Olivet
Acts 1:9,12
Christ ascended from Bethany
Luke 24:50,51
91. Paul's attendants heard the miraculous voice, and stood
speechless
Acts 9:7
Paul's attendants heard not the voice and were prostrate
Acts 26:14
92. Abraham departed to go into Canaan
Gen 12:5
Abraham went not knowing where
Heb 11:8
93. Abraham had two sons
Gal 4:22
Abraham had but one son
Heb 11:17
94. Keturah was Abraham's wife
Gen 25:1
Keturah was Abraham's concubine
1 Chron 1:32
95. Abraham begat a son when he was a hundred years old, by the
interposition of Providence
Gen 21:2/ Rom 4:19/ Heb 11:12
Abraham begat six children more after he was a hundred years
old without any interposition of providence
Gen 25:1,2
96. Jacob bought a sepulchre from Hamor
Josh 24:32
Abraham bought it of Hamor
Acts 7:16
97. God promised the land of Canaan to Abraham and his seed
forever
Gen 13:14,15,17; 17:8
Abraham and his seed never received the promised land
Acts 7:5/ Heb 11:9,13
98. Goliath was slain by Elhanan
2 Sam 21:19 *note, was changed in translation to be
correct. Original manuscript was incorrect>
The brother of Goliath was slain by Elhanan
1 Chron 20:5
99. Ahaziah began to reign in the twelfth year of Joram
2 Kings 8:25
Ahaziah began to reign in the eleventh year of Joram
2 Kings 9:29
100. Michal had no child
2 Sam 6:23
Michal had five children
2 Sam 21:8
101. David was tempted by the Lord to number Israel
2 Sam 24:1
David was tempted by Satan to number the people
1 Chron 21:1
102. The number of fighting men of Israel was 800,000; and of
Judah 500,000
2 Sam 24:9
The number of fighting men of Israel was 1,100,000; and of
Judah 470,000
1 Chron 21:5
103. David sinned in numbering the people
2 Sam 24:10
David never sinned, except in the matter of Uriah
1 Kings 15:5
104. One of the penalties of David's sin was seven years of
famine.
2 Sam 24:13
It was not seven years, but three years of famine
1 Chron 21:11,12
105. David took seven hundred horsemen
2 Sam 8:4
David took seven thousand horsemen
1 Chron 18:4
106. David bought a threshing floor for fifty shekels of silver
2 Sam 24:24
David bought the threshing floor for six hundred shekels of
gold
1 Chron 21:25
107. David's throne was to endure forever.
Ps 89:35-37
David's throne was cast down
Ps 89:44


Speculative Doctrines

108. Christ is equal with God
John 10:30/ Phil 2:5
Christ is not equal with God
John 14:28/ Matt 24:36
109. Jesus was all-powerful
Matt 28:18/ John 3:35
Jesus was not all-powerful
Mark 6:5
110. The law was superseded by the Christian dispensation
Luke 16:16/ Eph 2:15/ Rom 7:6
The law was not superseded by the Christian dispensation
Matt 5:17-19
111. Christ's mission was peace
Luke 2:13,14
Christ's mission was not peace
Matt 10:34
112. Christ received not testimony from man
John 5:33,34
Christ did receive testimony from man
John 15:27
113. Christ's witness of himself is true.
John 8:18,14
Christ's witness of himself is not true.
John 5:31
114. Christ laid down his life for his friends
John 15:13/ John 10:11
Christ laid down his life for his enemies
Rom 5:10
115. It was lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death
John 19:7
It was not lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death
John 18:31
116. Children are punished for the sins of the parents
Ex 20:5
Children are not punished for the sins of the parents
Ezek 18:20
117. Man is justified by faith alone
Rom 3:20/ Gal 2:16/ Gal 3:11,12/ Rom 4:2
Man is not justified by faith alone
James 2:21,24/ Rom 2:13
118. It is impossible to fall from grace
John 10:28/ Rom 8:38,39
It is possible to fall from grace
Ezek 18:24/ Heb 6:4-6, 2 Pet 2:20,21
119. No man is without sin
1 Kings 8:46/ Prov 20:9/ Eccl 7:20/ Rom 3:10
Christians are sinless
1 John 3: 9,6,8
120. There is to be a resurrection of the dead
1 Cor 15:52/ Rev 20:12,13/ Luke 20:37/ 1 Cor 15:16
There is to be no resurrection of the dead
Job 7:9/ Eccl 9:5/ Is 26:14
121. Reward and punishment to be bestowed in this world
Prov 11:31
Reward and punishment to be bestowed in the next world
Rev 20:12/ Matt 16:27/ 2 Cor 5:10
122. Annihilation the portion of all mankind
Job 3: 11,13-17,19-22/ Eccl 9:5,10/ Eccl 3:19,20
Endless misery the portion of all mankind
Matt 25:46/ Rev 20:10,15/ Rev 14:11/ Dan 12:2
123. The Earth is to be destroyed
2 Pet 3:10/ Heb 1:11/ Rev 20:11
The Earth is never to be destroyed
Ps 104:5/ Eccl 1:4
124. No evil shall happen to the godly
Prov 12:21/ 1 Pet 3:13
Evil does happen to the godly
Heb 12:6/ Job 2:3,7
125. Worldly good and prosperity are the lot of the godly
Prov 12:21/ Ps 37:28,32,33,37/ Ps 1:1,3/ Gen 39:2/
Job 42:12
Worldly misery and destitution the lot of the godly
Heb 11:37,38/ Rev 7:14/ 2 Tim 3:12/ Luke 21:17
126. Worldly prosperity a reward of righteousness and a blessing
Mark 10:29,30/ Ps 37:25/ Ps 112:1,3/ Job 22:23,24/
Prov 15:6
Worldly prosperity a curse and a bar to future reward
Luke 6:20,24/ Matt 6:19,21/ Luke 16:22/ Matt 19:24/
Luke 6:24
127. The Christian yoke is easy
Matt 11:28,29,30
The Christian yoke is not easy
John 16:33/ 2 Tim 3:12/ Heb 12:6,8
128. The fruit of God's spirit is love and gentleness
Gal 5:22
The fruit of God's spirit is vengeance and fury
Judg 15:14/ 1 Sam 18:10,11
129. Longevity enjoyed by the wicked
Job 21:7,8/ Ps 17:14/ Eccl 8:12/ Is 65:20
Longevity denied to the wicked
Eccl 8:13/ Ps 55:23/ Prov 10:27/ Job 36:14/ Eccl 7:17
130. Poverty a blessing
Luke 6:20,24/ Jams 2:5
Riches a blessing
Prov 10:15/ Job 22:23,24/ Job 42:12
Neither poverty nor riches a blessing
Prov 30:8,9
131. Wisdom a source of enjoyment
Prov 3:13,17
Wisdom a source of vexation, grief and sorrow
Eccl 1:17,18
132. A good name is a blessing
Eccl 7:1/ Prov 22:1
A good name is a curse
Luke 6:26
133. Laughter commended
Eccl 3:1,4/ Eccl 8:15
Laughter condemned
Luke 6:25/ Eccl 7:3,4
134. The rod of correction a remedy for foolishness
Prov 22:15
There is no remedy for foolishness
Prov 27:22
135. A fool should be answered according to his folly
Prov 26:5
A fool should not be answered according to his folly
Prov 26:4
136. Temptation to be desired
James 1:2
Temptation not to be desired
Matt 6:13
137. Prophecy is sure
2 Pet 1:19
Prophecy is not sure
Jer 18:7-10
138. Man's life was to be one hundred and twenty years
Gen 6:3/ Ps 90:10
Man's life is but seventy years
Ps 90:10
139. The fear of man was to be upon every beast
Gen 9:2
The fear of man is not upon the lion
Prov 30:30
140. Miracles a proof of divine mission
Matt 11:2-5/ John 3:2/ Ex 14:31
Miracles not a proof of divine mission
Ex 7:10-12/ Deut 13:1-3/ Luke 11:19
141. Moses was a very meek man
Num 12:3
Moses was a very cruel man
Num 31:15,17
142. Elijah went up to heaven
2 Kings 2:11
None but Christ ever ascended into heaven
John 3:13
143. All scripture is inspired
2 Tim 3:16
Some scripture is not inspired
1 Cor 7:6/ 1 Cor 7:12/ 2 Cor 11:17



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send
peace, but a sword.
- Matthew 10:34

... all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
- Matthew 26:52



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


For wrath killeth the foolish man...
- Job 5:2

... let not the sun go down on your wrath.
- Ephesians 4:26



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And no man hath ascended up to heaven, even the Son of man which
is in heaven.
- John 3:13

... and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
- 2 Kings 2:11



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
- John 5:31

I am one that bear witness of myself...
- John 8:18
[Jesus was the speaker in both of these quotes]



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children...
- Proverbs 13:22

Sell that ye have and give alms...
- Luke 12:33



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord... Wealth and riches
shall be in his house...
- Psalms 112:1-3

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than
for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
- Matthew 19:24



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I and my father are one.
- John 10:30

... I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
- John 14:28
[Jesus was the speaker in both of these quotes]



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thou shalt not kill
- Exodus 20:13

Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his
side... and slay every man his brother...
- Exodus 32:27



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy.
- Exodus 20:8

The new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot
away with: it is iniquity.
- Isaiah 3:22



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness
of anything that is in heaven... earth... [or] water.
- Leviticus 26:11

And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt
thou make them.
- Exodus 25:18



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


For by grace are ye saved through faith... not of works.
- Ephesians 2:8-9

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by
faith only.
- James 2:24



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


God is not a man, that he should lie: neither the son of man,
that he should repent.
- Numbers 23:19

And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his
people.
- Exodus 32:14



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


... the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall
hear his voice, and come forth...
- John 5:28-29

As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth
down to the grave shall come up no more.
- Job 7:9



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


... thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth,
hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for
wound, stripe for stripe.
- Exodus 21:23-25

... resist not evil; but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right
cheek, turn to him the other also.
- Matthew 5:39



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Honor thy father and mother.
- Exodus 20:12

If any man come to me, and hate not his father and mother, and
wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own
life also, he cannot be my disciple.
- Luke 14:26



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Lay not up for yourself treasures upon the earth...
- Matthew 6:19

In the house of the righteous is much treasure...
- Proverbs 15:6



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
- Genesis 32:30

No man hath seen God at any time.
- John 1:18



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father.
- Ezekiel 18:20

... I the lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of
the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth
generation.
- Exodus 20:5



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth
understanding.
- Proverbs 3:13

For in much wisdom is much grief; and he that increaseth
knowledge increaseth sorrow.
- Ecclesiastes 1:18



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Lord is good to all.
- Psalm 145:6

I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things.
- Isaiah 45:7



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire.
- Matthew 5:22

[Jesus said] Ye fools and blind.
- Matthew 23:17



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


For all have sinned.
- Romans 3:23

There was a man... whose name was Job; and that man was perfect
and upright.
- Job 1:1



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign.
- 2 Kings 8:26

Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign.
- 2 Chronicles 22:2



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If a man vow a vow unto the Lord or swear an oath... he shall do
according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.
- Numbers 30:2

But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven... nor by
earth.
- Matthew 5:34-35



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


... the earth abideth forever.
- Ecclesiastes 1:4

... the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and
the works that are therein shall be burned up.
- 2 Peter 3:10



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


... for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger
forever.
- Jeremiah 3:12

Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever.
- Jeremiah 17:4



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


... God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.
- James 1:13

And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt
Abraham.
- Genesis 22:1



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And God saw everything that he made, and behold it was very good.
- Genesis 1:31

And it repented the Lord that he had made man on earth, and it
grieved him at his heart
- Genesis 6:6



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


For now have I chosen and sanctified this house that my name be
there forever; and mine eyes and my heart shall be there
perpetually.
- II Chronicles 7:16

Howbeit the most high dwelleth not in temples made with hands.
- Acts 7:48



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


[God dwells] in the light which no man can approach unto.
- I Timothy 6:16

The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.

- I Kings 8:12



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And the Lord called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid.
- Genesis 3:9,10

Ye hath neither heard his voice, at any time, nor seen his shape.
- John 5:37



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Then went up Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the
elders of Israel. And they saw the God of Israel... They saw
God, and did eat and drink.
- Exodus 24: 9-11

Whom no man hath seen nor can see.
- I Timothy 6:16



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


With God all things are possible.
- Matthew 29:26

And the Lord was with Judah, and he drove out the inhabitants of
the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the
valley, because they had chariots of iron.
- Judges 1:19



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


God is not the author of confusion.
- I Corinthians 24:33

Out of the mouth of the most high proceedeth not evil and good?
- Lamentations 3:38



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Those that seek me early shall find me.
- Proverbs 8:17

Then shall they call upon me but I will not answer; they shall
seek me early, but shall not find me.
- Proverbs 1:28



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of
atonement; it shall be a holy convocation unto you; and ye shall
afflict your souls and offer an offering made by fire unto the
Lord.
- Leviticus 23:27

For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day
that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt
offering or sacrifices.
- Jeremiah 7:22



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And the priest shall burn all on the altar to be a burnt
sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savor unto the
Lord.
- Leviticus 1:9

Your burnt offering are not acceptable, nor your sacrifices sweet
unto me.
- Jeremiah 7:20



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


God is not a man, that he should lie
- Numbers 23:19

And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the
Lord have deceived that prophet.
- Ezekiel 24:9



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There is none other God but one.
- I Corinthians 8:4

And God said, Let us make man in our image.
- Genesis 1:26



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


When ye go, ye shall not go empty; but every woman shall borrow
of her neighbor, and of her that sojourneth in her house, jewels
of silver and jewels of gold, and raiment; and ye shall put them
on your sons and upon your daughters; and ye shall spoil the
Egyptians.
- Exodus 3:21,22

Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor, nether rob him.
- Leviticus 19:13



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


At the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of
man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed.
- Genesis 4:5,6

And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should
kill him.
- Genesis 4:15



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not,
neither do they spin... if God so clothe the grass of the
field... shall he not much more clothe you? Therefore, take no
thought, saying what shall we eat? or what shall we drink? or
wherewithal shall we be clothed?... Take, therefore, no thought
for the morrow.
- Matthew 6:28, 30-34

But if any provideth not for his own, especially for those of his
own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an
infidel.
- I Timothy 5:8



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Be ye angry and sin not.
- Ephesians 4:26

Be not hasty in they spirit to be angry; for anger resideth in
the bosom of fools.
- Ecclesiastes 7:9



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good
works.
- Matthew 5:16

Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of
them.
- Matthew 6:1



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And Solomon stood before the alter of the Lord, in the presence
of all the congregation of Israel, and spread forth his hands
toward heaven...
- I Kings 7:22

When thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are; for
they love to pray standing in the synagogues, and in the corners
of the streets, that they may be seen of men...
- Matthew 6:5



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And no razor shall come on his head; for the child shall be a
Nazarite unto God from the womb.
- Judges 8:5

Doth not even nature itself teach you, that if a man hath long
hair, it is a shame unto him?
- I Corinthians 6:14



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.
- Exodus 20:8

One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every
day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
- Romans 14:5



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


For in the six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and
all that in them is, and rested the seventh day; wherefore the
Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
- Exodus 20:11

And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and
that the Lord thy God brought the out thence through a mighty
hand and by a stretched-out arm; therefore the Lord thy God
commanded the to keep the Sabbath day.
- Deuteronomy 5:15



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There is nothing unclean of itself.
- Romans 14:14

Nevertheless, these shall ye not eat, of them that chew the cud or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel and the hare, and the coney; for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof, therefore they are unclean unto you. And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass.
- Deuteronomy 14:7,8



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Cursed is he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother.
- Deuteronomy 27:22

And Abraham said... She is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.
- Genesis 20:11,12



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If brethren dwell together, and one of them die and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger; her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife.
- Deuteronomy 25:5

If a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing... they shall be childless.
- Leviticus 20:21



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness.
- Mark 3:29

And by him that believe are justified from all things.
- Acts 13:39



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


[John the Baptist] is Elias which was for to come.
- Matthew 11:14

And they asked him, what then? Art thou [John the Baptist] Elias? And he saith, I am not.
- John 1:21



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Now, after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee,
preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God.
- Mark 1:14

After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judea... and John was also baptizing Enon... for John was not yet cast into prison.
- John 3:22-24



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And it was in the third hour, and they crucified him.
- Mark 25:3-4

And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, behold your king... Shall I crucify your king?
- John 19:14-15



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


They gave him vinegar to drink, mingled with gall.
- Matthew 27:34

And they gave him to drink, wine mingled with myrrh.
- Mark 15:23
[Jesus was the thirsty chap in both verses.]



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And the men which journeyed with [Paul] stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
- Acts 9:7

And they that were with me [Paul] saw indeed the light and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
- Acts 22:9



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Abraham had two sons; one by a bonds-maid, the other by a free woman.
- Galatians 4:22

By faith, Abraham when he was tried offered up Isaac... his only begotten son.
- Hebrews 11:17



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Therefore Michal, the daughter of Saul, had no child unto the day of her death.
- II Samuel 6:23

The five sons of Michal, the daughter of Saul.
- II Samuel 21:8



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel.
- II Samuel 24:1

And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
- I Chronicles 21:1



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


All power is given unto [Jesus] in heaven and in earth.
- Matthew 28:18

And [Jesus] could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands on a few sick folk and healed them.
- Mark 6:5



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There shall no evil happen to the just.
- Proverbs 12:21

Whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
- Hebrews 12:6


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More fun and laughs with the Bible on:

http://www.evilbible.com/

[drakul]

LOL, that really is weak drakul - sounds like your communion you do on Easter Sunday at church when you drink the blood and east the flesh of Jesus. Yes, the Egyptians had the same ritual long before Christianity.

I especially love how you gloss over the biblical scripture that proves you wrong drakul - you have a tendency to ignore inconvenient facts that get in the way of your agenda, just like any other Christian apologist.

Revelation and Jesus' return killing 1/3rd of human population

Eventually 2/3rds of the human population i.e. NON-believers are to be wiped out in a mass genocide for not believing in god for which no valid evidence exists whatsoever - nice god ya got there.:eek:

And 44% of Christians are looking forward to this as a glorious time. Even the religious tolerance website says, "It will be numerically the largest mass extermination of humans in history."

Christians look forward to the MURDER of 2/3rds the worlds population that's over 4 BILLION people. Yeah, that's so much better !!!:rolleyes:


So far all you're doing is trying to prove Jesus was as BAD as Horus. In fact you haven't done that at all as regards the LIFE STORY of Jesus. You haven't shown me via PRIMARY EVIDENCE - ANY pictographs of Jesus committing human sacrifice as I have done with Horus. What about proving Horus was a good guy like Jesus? Can you do that?

Jesus was not a killer. Horus was a killer. Horus whole life story was about killing his enemies to regain his father's power.

[thirdwave]

I am still waiting for Egyptian TEMPLE TEXTS which portray Horus as a peaceful commpationate loving JESUS.

lol, but no one has implied he was lol!!

[thirdwave]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AhGe9uhQ1N0/RcpeblsPTwI/AAAAAAAAAWg/Xv23xeDWisc/s400/72virgins.jpg

Yes Thirdwave, but great shall be your reward in the Kingdom of Hevean for your relentless debunking of the Christ myth; don't forget the 144 Virgins who await you in the Gardens of Paradise as your reward for attacking and deconstructing the nonsense of Christian theology.

As for the Christians....
http://static.flickr.com/49/185528441_75d7b21290_o.jpg




Biblical Contradictions
From http://www.evilbible.com/

If the Bible was divinely inspired, then why would it have so many really obvious contradictions?



Theological doctrines:

1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48
3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28
6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19
9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14
10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
12. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
them
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28
14. God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33
15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8
16. God's anger is fierce and endures long
Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute
Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5
17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,
sacrifices ,and holy days
Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,
sacrifices, and holy days.
Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12
18. God accepts human sacrifices
2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
God forbids human sacrifice
Deut 12:30,31
19. God tempts men
Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
God tempts no man
James 1:13
20. God cannot lie
Heb 6:18
God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9
21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
Gen 6:5,7
Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
Gen 8:21
22. God's attributes are revealed in his works.
Rom 1:20
God's attributes cannot be discovered
Job 11:7/ Is 40:28
23. There is but one God
Deut 6:4
There is a plurality of gods
Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7


Moral Precepts

24. Robbery commanded
Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
Robbery forbidden
Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15
25. Lying approved and sanctioned
Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
Lying forbidden
Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8
26. Hatred to the Edomite sanctioned
2 Kings 14:7,3
Hatred to the Edomite forbidden
Deut 23:7
27. Killing commanded
Ex 32:27
Killing forbidden
Ex 20:13
28. The blood-shedder must die
Gen 9:5,6
The blood-shedder must not die
Gen 4:15
29. The making of images forbidden
Ex 20:4
The making of images commanded
Ex 25:18,20
30. Slavery and oppression ordained
Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8
Slavery and oppression forbidden
Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10
31. Improvidence enjoyed
Matt 6:28,31,34/ Luke 6:30,35/ Luke 12:3
Improvidence condemned
1 Tim 5:8/ Prov 13:22
32. Anger approved
Eph 4:26
Anger disapproved
Eccl 7:9/ Prov 22:24/ James 1:20
33. Good works to be seen of men
Matt 5:16
Good works not to be seen of men
Matt 6:1
34. Judging of others forbidden
Matt 7:1,2
Judging of others approved
1 Cor 6:2-4/ 1 Cor 5:12
35. Christ taught non-resistance
Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52
Christ taught and practiced physical resistance
Luke 22:36/ John 2:15
36. Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed
Luke 12:4
Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed
John 7:1
37. Public prayer sanctioned
1 Kings 8:22,54, 9:3
Public prayer disapproved
Matt 6:5,6
38. Importunity in prayer commended
Luke 18:5,7
Importunity in prayer condemned
Matt 6:7,8
39. The wearing of long hair by men sanctioned
Judg 13:5/ Num 6:5
The wearing of long hair by men condemned
1 Cor 11:14
40. Circumcision instituted
Gen 17:10
Circumcision condemned
Gal 5:2
41. The Sabbath instituted
Ex 20:8
The Sabbath repudiated
Is 1:13/ Rom 14:5/ Col 2:16
42. The Sabbath instituted because God rested on the seventh day
Ex 20:11
The Sabbath instituted because God brought the Israelites
out of Egypt
Deut 5:15
43. No work to be done on the Sabbath under penalty of death
Ex 31:15/ Num 15:32,36
Jesus Christ broke the Sabbath and justified his disciples in
the same
John 5:16/ Matt 12:1-3,5
44. Baptism commanded
Matt 28:19
Baptism not commanded
1 Cor 1:17,14
45. Every kind of animal allowed for food.
Gen 9:3/ 1 Cor 10:25/ Rom 14:14
Certain kinds of animals prohibited for food.
Deut 14:7,8
46. Taking of oaths sanctioned
Num 30:2/ Gen 21:23-24,31/ Gen 31:53/ Heb 6:13
Taking of oaths forbidden
Matt 5:34
47. Marriage approved
Gen 2:18/ Gen 1:28/ Matt 19:5/ Heb 13:4
Marriage disapproved
1 Cor 7:1/ 1 Cor 7:7,8
48. Freedom of divorce permitted
Deut 24:1/ Deut 21:10,11,14
Divorce restricted
Matt 5:32
49. Adultery forbidden
Ex 20:14/ Heb 13:4
Adultery allowed
Num 31:18/ Hos 1:2; 2:1-3
50. Marriage or cohabitation with a sister denounced
Deut 27:22/ Lev 20:17
Abraham married his sister and God blessed the union
Gen 20:11,12/ Gen 17:16
51. A man may marry his brother's widow
Deut 25:5
A man may not marry his brother's widow
Lev 20:21
52. Hatred to kindred enjoined
Luke 14:26
Hatred to kindred condemned
Eph 6:2/ Eph 5:25,29
53. Intoxicating beverages recommended
Prov 31:6,7/ 1 Tim 5:23/ Ps 104:15
Intoxicating beverages discountenanced
Prov 20:1/ Prov 23:31,32
54. It is our duty to obey our rulers, who are God's ministers
and punish evil doers only
Rom 13:1-3,6
It is not our duty to obey rulers, who sometimes punish the
good and receive unto themselves damnation therefor
Ex 1:17,20/ Dan 3:16,18/ Dan 6:9,7,10/ Acts 4:26,27/
Mark 12:38,39,40/ Luke 23:11,24,33,35
55. Women's rights denied
Gen 3:16/ 1 Tim 2:12/ 1 Cor 14:34/ 1 Pet 3:6
Women's rights affirmed
Judg 4:4,14,15/ Judg 5:7/ Acts 2:18/ Acts 21:9
56. Obedience to masters enjoined
Col 3:22,23/ 1 Pet 2:18
Obedience due to God only
Matt 4:10/ 1 Cor 7:23/ Matt 23:10
57. There is an unpardonable sin
Mark 3:29
There is not unpardonable sin
Acts 13:39


Historical Facts

58. Man was created after the other animals
Gen 1:25,26,27
Man was created before the other animals
Gen 2:18,19
59. Seed time and harvest were never to cease
Gen 8:22
Seed time and harvest did cease for seven years
Gen 41:54,56/ Gen 45:6
60. God hardened Pharaoh's heart
Ex 4:21/ Ed 9:12
Pharaoh hardened his own heart
Ex 8:15
61. All the cattle and horses in Egypt died
Ex 9:3,6/ 14:9
All the horses of Egypt did not die
Ex 14:9
62. Moses feared Pharaoh
Ex 2:14,15,23; 4:19
Moses did not fear Pharaoh
Heb 11:27
63. There died of the plague twenty-four thousand
Num 25:9
There died of the plague but twenty-three thousand
1 Cor 10:8
64. John the Baptist was Elias
Matt 11:14
John the Baptist was not Elias
John 1:21
65. The father of Joseph, Mary's husband was Jacob
Matt 1:16
The father of Mary's husband was Heli
Luke 3:23
66. The father of Salah was Arphaxad
Gen 11:12
The father of Salah was Cainan
Luke 3:35,36
67. There were fourteen generations from Abraham to David
Matt 1:17
There were but thirteen generations from Abraham to David
Matt 1:2-6
68. There were fourteen generations from the Babylonian captivity
to Christ.
Matt 1:17
There were but thirteen generations from the Babylonian
captivity to Christ
Matt 1:12-16
69. The infant Christ was taken into Egypt
Matt 2:14,15,19,21,23
The infant Christ was not taken into Egypt
Luke 2:22, 39
70. Christ was tempted in the wilderness
Mark 1:12,13
Christ was not tempted in the wilderness
John 2:1,2
71. Christ preached his first sermon on the mount
Matt 5:1,2
Christ preached his first sermon on the plain
Luke 6:17,20
72. John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee
Mark 1:14
John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee
John 1:43/ John 3:22-24
73. Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with a staff
and sandals
Mark 6:8,9
Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with neither
staffs nor sandals.
Matt 10:9,10
74. A woman of Canaan besought Jesus
Matt 15:22
It was a Greek woman who besought Him
Mark 7:26
75. Two blind men besought Jesus
Matt 20:30
Only one blind man besought Him
Luke 18:35,38
76. Christ was crucified at the third hour
Mark 15:25
Christ was not crucified until the sixth hour
John 19:14,15
77. The two thieves reviled Christ.
Matt 27:44/ Mark 15:32
Only one of the thieves reviled Christ
Luke 23:39,40
78. Satan entered into Judas while at supper
John 13:27
Satan entered into him before the supper
Luke 22:3,4,7
79. Judas committed suicide by hanging
Matt 27:5
Judas did not hang himself, but died another way
Acts 1:18
80. The potter's field was purchased by Judas
Acts 1:18
The potter's field was purchased by the Chief Priests
Matt 27:6,7
81. There was but one woman who came to the sepulchre
John 20:1
There were two women who came to the sepulchre
Matt 28:1
82. There were three women who came to the sepulchre
Mark 16:1
There were more than three women who came to the sepulchre
Luke 24:10
83. It was at sunrise when they came to the sepulchre
Mark 16:2
It was some time before sunrise when they came.
John 20:1
84. There were two angels seen by the women at the sepulchre, and
they were standing up.
Luke 24:4
There was but one angel seen, and he was sitting down.
Matt 28:2,5
85. There were two angels seen within the sepulchre.
John 20:11,12
There was but one angel seen within the sepulchre
Mark 16:5
86. Christ was to be three days and three nights in the grave
Matt 12:40
Christ was but two days and two nights in the grave
Mark 15:25,42,44,45,46; 16:9>
87. Holy ghost bestowed at pentecost
Acts 1:8,5
Holy ghost bestowed before pentecost
John 20:22
88. The disciples were commanded immediately after the
resurrection to go into Galilee
Matt 28:10
The disciples were commanded immediately after the
resurrection to go tarry at Jerusalem
Luke 24:49
89. Jesus first appeared to the eleven disciples in a room at
Jerusalem
Luke 24:33,36,37/ John 20:19
Jesus first appeared to the eleven on a mountain in Galilee
Matt 28:16,17
90. Christ ascended from Mount Olivet
Acts 1:9,12
Christ ascended from Bethany
Luke 24:50,51
91. Paul's attendants heard the miraculous voice, and stood
speechless
Acts 9:7
Paul's attendants heard not the voice and were prostrate
Acts 26:14
92. Abraham departed to go into Canaan
Gen 12:5
Abraham went not knowing where
Heb 11:8
93. Abraham had two sons
Gal 4:22
Abraham had but one son
Heb 11:17
94. Keturah was Abraham's wife
Gen 25:1
Keturah was Abraham's concubine
1 Chron 1:32
95. Abraham begat a son when he was a hundred years old, by the
interposition of Providence
Gen 21:2/ Rom 4:19/ Heb 11:12
Abraham begat six children more after he was a hundred years
old without any interposition of providence
Gen 25:1,2
96. Jacob bought a sepulchre from Hamor
Josh 24:32
Abraham bought it of Hamor
Acts 7:16
97. God promised the land of Canaan to Abraham and his seed
forever
Gen 13:14,15,17; 17:8
Abraham and his seed never received the promised land
Acts 7:5/ Heb 11:9,13
98. Goliath was slain by Elhanan
2 Sam 21:19 *note, was changed in translation to be
correct. Original manuscript was incorrect>
The brother of Goliath was slain by Elhanan
1 Chron 20:5
99. Ahaziah began to reign in the twelfth year of Joram
2 Kings 8:25
Ahaziah began to reign in the eleventh year of Joram
2 Kings 9:29
100. Michal had no child
2 Sam 6:23
Michal had five children
2 Sam 21:8
101. David was tempted by the Lord to number Israel
2 Sam 24:1
David was tempted by Satan to number the people
1 Chron 21:1
102. The number of fighting men of Israel was 800,000; and of
Judah 500,000
2 Sam 24:9
The number of fighting men of Israel was 1,100,000; and of
Judah 470,000
1 Chron 21:5
103. David sinned in numbering the people
2 Sam 24:10
David never sinned, except in the matter of Uriah
1 Kings 15:5
104. One of the penalties of David's sin was seven years of
famine.
2 Sam 24:13
It was not seven years, but three years of famine
1 Chron 21:11,12
105. David took seven hundred horsemen
2 Sam 8:4
David took seven thousand horsemen
1 Chron 18:4
106. David bought a threshing floor for fifty shekels of silver
2 Sam 24:24
David bought the threshing floor for six hundred shekels of
gold
1 Chron 21:25
107. David's throne was to endure forever.
Ps 89:35-37
David's throne was cast down
Ps 89:44


Speculative Doctrines

108. Christ is equal with God
John 10:30/ Phil 2:5
Christ is not equal with God
John 14:28/ Matt 24:36
109. Jesus was all-powerful
Matt 28:18/ John 3:35
Jesus was not all-powerful
Mark 6:5
110. The law was superseded by the Christian dispensation
Luke 16:16/ Eph 2:15/ Rom 7:6
The law was not superseded by the Christian dispensation
Matt 5:17-19
111. Christ's mission was peace
Luke 2:13,14
Christ's mission was not peace
Matt 10:34
112. Christ received not testimony from man
John 5:33,34
Christ did receive testimony from man
John 15:27
113. Christ's witness of himself is true.
John 8:18,14
Christ's witness of himself is not true.
John 5:31
114. Christ laid down his life for his friends
John 15:13/ John 10:11
Christ laid down his life for his enemies
Rom 5:10
115. It was lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death
John 19:7
It was not lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death
John 18:31
116. Children are punished for the sins of the parents
Ex 20:5
Children are not punished for the sins of the parents
Ezek 18:20
117. Man is justified by faith alone
Rom 3:20/ Gal 2:16/ Gal 3:11,12/ Rom 4:2
Man is not justified by faith alone
James 2:21,24/ Rom 2:13
118. It is impossible to fall from grace
John 10:28/ Rom 8:38,39
It is possible to fall from grace
Ezek 18:24/ Heb 6:4-6, 2 Pet 2:20,21
119. No man is without sin
1 Kings 8:46/ Prov 20:9/ Eccl 7:20/ Rom 3:10
Christians are sinless
1 John 3: 9,6,8
120. There is to be a resurrection of the dead
1 Cor 15:52/ Rev 20:12,13/ Luke 20:37/ 1 Cor 15:16
There is to be no resurrection of the dead
Job 7:9/ Eccl 9:5/ Is 26:14
121. Reward and punishment to be bestowed in this world
Prov 11:31
Reward and punishment to be bestowed in the next world
Rev 20:12/ Matt 16:27/ 2 Cor 5:10
122. Annihilation the portion of all mankind
Job 3: 11,13-17,19-22/ Eccl 9:5,10/ Eccl 3:19,20
Endless misery the portion of all mankind
Matt 25:46/ Rev 20:10,15/ Rev 14:11/ Dan 12:2
123. The Earth is to be destroyed
2 Pet 3:10/ Heb 1:11/ Rev 20:11
The Earth is never to be destroyed
Ps 104:5/ Eccl 1:4
124. No evil shall happen to the godly
Prov 12:21/ 1 Pet 3:13
Evil does happen to the godly
Heb 12:6/ Job 2:3,7
125. Worldly good and prosperity are the lot of the godly
Prov 12:21/ Ps 37:28,32,33,37/ Ps 1:1,3/ Gen 39:2/
Job 42:12
Worldly misery and destitution the lot of the godly
Heb 11:37,38/ Rev 7:14/ 2 Tim 3:12/ Luke 21:17
126. Worldly prosperity a reward of righteousness and a blessing
Mark 10:29,30/ Ps 37:25/ Ps 112:1,3/ Job 22:23,24/
Prov 15:6
Worldly prosperity a curse and a bar to future reward
Luke 6:20,24/ Matt 6:19,21/ Luke 16:22/ Matt 19:24/
Luke 6:24
127. The Christian yoke is easy
Matt 11:28,29,30
The Christian yoke is not easy
John 16:33/ 2 Tim 3:12/ Heb 12:6,8
128. The fruit of God's spirit is love and gentleness
Gal 5:22
The fruit of God's spirit is vengeance and fury
Judg 15:14/ 1 Sam 18:10,11
129. Longevity enjoyed by the wicked
Job 21:7,8/ Ps 17:14/ Eccl 8:12/ Is 65:20
Longevity denied to the wicked
Eccl 8:13/ Ps 55:23/ Prov 10:27/ Job 36:14/ Eccl 7:17
130. Poverty a blessing
Luke 6:20,24/ Jams 2:5
Riches a blessing
Prov 10:15/ Job 22:23,24/ Job 42:12
Neither poverty nor riches a blessing
Prov 30:8,9
131. Wisdom a source of enjoyment
Prov 3:13,17
Wisdom a source of vexation, grief and sorrow
Eccl 1:17,18
132. A good name is a blessing
Eccl 7:1/ Prov 22:1
A good name is a curse
Luke 6:26
133. Laughter commended
Eccl 3:1,4/ Eccl 8:15
Laughter condemned
Luke 6:25/ Eccl 7:3,4
134. The rod of correction a remedy for foolishness
Prov 22:15
There is no remedy for foolishness
Prov 27:22
135. A fool should be answered according to his folly
Prov 26:5
A fool should not be answered according to his folly
Prov 26:4
136. Temptation to be desired
James 1:2
Temptation not to be desired
Matt 6:13
137. Prophecy is sure
2 Pet 1:19
Prophecy is not sure
Jer 18:7-10
138. Man's life was to be one hundred and twenty years
Gen 6:3/ Ps 90:10
Man's life is but seventy years
Ps 90:10
139. The fear of man was to be upon every beast
Gen 9:2
The fear of man is not upon the lion
Prov 30:30
140. Miracles a proof of divine mission
Matt 11:2-5/ John 3:2/ Ex 14:31
Miracles not a proof of divine mission
Ex 7:10-12/ Deut 13:1-3/ Luke 11:19
141. Moses was a very meek man
Num 12:3
Moses was a very cruel man
Num 31:15,17
142. Elijah went up to heaven
2 Kings 2:11
None but Christ ever ascended into heaven
John 3:13
143. All scripture is inspired
2 Tim 3:16
Some scripture is not inspired
1 Cor 7:6/ 1 Cor 7:12/ 2 Cor 11:17



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Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send
peace, but a sword.
- Matthew 10:34

... all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
- Matthew 26:52



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


For wrath killeth the foolish man...
- Job 5:2

... let not the sun go down on your wrath.
- Ephesians 4:26



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And no man hath ascended up to heaven, even the Son of man which
is in heaven.
- John 3:13

... and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
- 2 Kings 2:11



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If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
- John 5:31

I am one that bear witness of myself...
- John 8:18
[Jesus was the speaker in both of these quotes]



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children...
- Proverbs 13:22

Sell that ye have and give alms...
- Luke 12:33



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord... Wealth and riches
shall be in his house...
- Psalms 112:1-3

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than
for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
- Matthew 19:24



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I and my father are one.
- John 10:30

... I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
- John 14:28
[Jesus was the speaker in both of these quotes]



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thou shalt not kill
- Exodus 20:13

Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his
side... and slay every man his brother...
- Exodus 32:27



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy.
- Exodus 20:8

The new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot
away with: it is iniquity.
- Isaiah 3:22



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness
of anything that is in heaven... earth... [or] water.
- Leviticus 26:11

And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt
thou make them.
- Exodus 25:18



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


For by grace are ye saved through faith... not of works.
- Ephesians 2:8-9

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by
faith only.
- James 2:24



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


God is not a man, that he should lie: neither the son of man,
that he should repent.
- Numbers 23:19

And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his
people.
- Exodus 32:14



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


... the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall
hear his voice, and come forth...
- John 5:28-29

As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth
down to the grave shall come up no more.
- Job 7:9



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


... thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth,
hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for
wound, stripe for stripe.
- Exodus 21:23-25

... resist not evil; but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right
cheek, turn to him the other also.
- Matthew 5:39



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Honor thy father and mother.
- Exodus 20:12

If any man come to me, and hate not his father and mother, and
wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own
life also, he cannot be my disciple.
- Luke 14:26



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Lay not up for yourself treasures upon the earth...
- Matthew 6:19

In the house of the righteous is much treasure...
- Proverbs 15:6



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
- Genesis 32:30

No man hath seen God at any time.
- John 1:18



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father.
- Ezekiel 18:20

... I the lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of
the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth
generation.
- Exodus 20:5



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth
understanding.
- Proverbs 3:13

For in much wisdom is much grief; and he that increaseth
knowledge increaseth sorrow.
- Ecclesiastes 1:18



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Lord is good to all.
- Psalm 145:6

I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things.
- Isaiah 45:7



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire.
- Matthew 5:22

[Jesus said] Ye fools and blind.
- Matthew 23:17



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


For all have sinned.
- Romans 3:23

There was a man... whose name was Job; and that man was perfect
and upright.
- Job 1:1



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign.
- 2 Kings 8:26

Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign.
- 2 Chronicles 22:2



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If a man vow a vow unto the Lord or swear an oath... he shall do
according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.
- Numbers 30:2

But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven... nor by
earth.
- Matthew 5:34-35



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


... the earth abideth forever.
- Ecclesiastes 1:4

... the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and
the works that are therein shall be burned up.
- 2 Peter 3:10



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


... for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger
forever.
- Jeremiah 3:12

Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever.
- Jeremiah 17:4



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


... God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.
- James 1:13

And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt
Abraham.
- Genesis 22:1



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And God saw everything that he made, and behold it was very good.
- Genesis 1:31

And it repented the Lord that he had made man on earth, and it
grieved him at his heart
- Genesis 6:6



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


For now have I chosen and sanctified this house that my name be
there forever; and mine eyes and my heart shall be there
perpetually.
- II Chronicles 7:16

Howbeit the most high dwelleth not in temples made with hands.
- Acts 7:48



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


[God dwells] in the light which no man can approach unto.
- I Timothy 6:16

The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.

- I Kings 8:12



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And the Lord called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid.
- Genesis 3:9,10

Ye hath neither heard his voice, at any time, nor seen his shape.
- John 5:37



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Then went up Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the
elders of Israel. And they saw the God of Israel... They saw
God, and did eat and drink.
- Exodus 24: 9-11

Whom no man hath seen nor can see.
- I Timothy 6:16



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


With God all things are possible.
- Matthew 29:26

And the Lord was with Judah, and he drove out the inhabitants of
the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the
valley, because they had chariots of iron.
- Judges 1:19



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


God is not the author of confusion.
- I Corinthians 24:33

Out of the mouth of the most high proceedeth not evil and good?
- Lamentations 3:38



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Those that seek me early shall find me.
- Proverbs 8:17

Then shall they call upon me but I will not answer; they shall
seek me early, but shall not find me.
- Proverbs 1:28



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of
atonement; it shall be a holy convocation unto you; and ye shall
afflict your souls and offer an offering made by fire unto the
Lord.
- Leviticus 23:27

For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day
that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt
offering or sacrifices.
- Jeremiah 7:22



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And the priest shall burn all on the altar to be a burnt
sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savor unto the
Lord.
- Leviticus 1:9

Your burnt offering are not acceptable, nor your sacrifices sweet
unto me.
- Jeremiah 7:20



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


God is not a man, that he should lie
- Numbers 23:19

And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the
Lord have deceived that prophet.
- Ezekiel 24:9



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There is none other God but one.
- I Corinthians 8:4

And God said, Let us make man in our image.
- Genesis 1:26



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


When ye go, ye shall not go empty; but every woman shall borrow
of her neighbor, and of her that sojourneth in her house, jewels
of silver and jewels of gold, and raiment; and ye shall put them
on your sons and upon your daughters; and ye shall spoil the
Egyptians.
- Exodus 3:21,22

Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor, nether rob him.
- Leviticus 19:13



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


At the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of
man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed.
- Genesis 4:5,6

And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should
kill him.
- Genesis 4:15



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not,
neither do they spin... if God so clothe the grass of the
field... shall he not much more clothe you? Therefore, take no
thought, saying what shall we eat? or what shall we drink? or
wherewithal shall we be clothed?... Take, therefore, no thought
for the morrow.
- Matthew 6:28, 30-34

But if any provideth not for his own, especially for those of his
own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an
infidel.
- I Timothy 5:8



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Be ye angry and sin not.
- Ephesians 4:26

Be not hasty in they spirit to be angry; for anger resideth in
the bosom of fools.
- Ecclesiastes 7:9



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good
works.
- Matthew 5:16

Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of
them.
- Matthew 6:1



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And Solomon stood before the alter of the Lord, in the presence
of all the congregation of Israel, and spread forth his hands
toward heaven...
- I Kings 7:22

When thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are; for
they love to pray standing in the synagogues, and in the corners
of the streets, that they may be seen of men...
- Matthew 6:5



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And no razor shall come on his head; for the child shall be a
Nazarite unto God from the womb.
- Judges 8:5

Doth not even nature itself teach you, that if a man hath long
hair, it is a shame unto him?
- I Corinthians 6:14



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.
- Exodus 20:8

One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every
day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
- Romans 14:5



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


For in the six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and
all that in them is, and rested the seventh day; wherefore the
Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
- Exodus 20:11

And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and
that the Lord thy God brought the out thence through a mighty
hand and by a stretched-out arm; therefore the Lord thy God
commanded the to keep the Sabbath day.
- Deuteronomy 5:15



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There is nothing unclean of itself.
- Romans 14:14

Nevertheless, these shall ye not eat, of them that chew the cud or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel and the hare, and the coney; for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof, therefore they are unclean unto you. And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass.
- Deuteronomy 14:7,8



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Cursed is he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother.
- Deuteronomy 27:22

And Abraham said... She is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.
- Genesis 20:11,12



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If brethren dwell together, and one of them die and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger; her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife.
- Deuteronomy 25:5

If a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing... they shall be childless.
- Leviticus 20:21



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness.
- Mark 3:29

And by him that believe are justified from all things.
- Acts 13:39



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


[John the Baptist] is Elias which was for to come.
- Matthew 11:14

And they asked him, what then? Art thou [John the Baptist] Elias? And he saith, I am not.
- John 1:21



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Now, after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee,
preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God.
- Mark 1:14

After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judea... and John was also baptizing Enon... for John was not yet cast into prison.
- John 3:22-24



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And it was in the third hour, and they crucified him.
- Mark 25:3-4

And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, behold your king... Shall I crucify your king?
- John 19:14-15



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


They gave him vinegar to drink, mingled with gall.
- Matthew 27:34

And they gave him to drink, wine mingled with myrrh.
- Mark 15:23
[Jesus was the thirsty chap in both verses.]



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And the men which journeyed with [Paul] stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
- Acts 9:7

And they that were with me [Paul] saw indeed the light and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
- Acts 22:9



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Abraham had two sons; one by a bonds-maid, the other by a free woman.
- Galatians 4:22

By faith, Abraham when he was tried offered up Isaac... his only begotten son.
- Hebrews 11:17



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Therefore Michal, the daughter of Saul, had no child unto the day of her death.
- II Samuel 6:23

The five sons of Michal, the daughter of Saul.
- II Samuel 21:8



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel.
- II Samuel 24:1

And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
- I Chronicles 21:1



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


All power is given unto [Jesus] in heaven and in earth.
- Matthew 28:18

And [Jesus] could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands on a few sick folk and healed them.
- Mark 6:5



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There shall no evil happen to the just.
- Proverbs 12:21

Whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
- Hebrews 12:6


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More fun and laughs with the Bible on:

http://www.evilbible.com/




Errrrrr, I think all those contradictions are just God trying to trick people to test their faith! :D

[drakul]

lol, but no one has implied he was lol!!

Show me a pictograph of Jesus killing animals or people.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/leg/img/pl10.jpg

From the Horus cult center at Edfu - Horus spearing animals and holding his prisoners with a rope. (click to enlarge)

Horus was a bloodthirsty warrior who gloried in killing both animals and people. Jesus went into the temple at Passover to STOP the sacrifice of animals. He turned over the tables of the `money changers' who sold animals for sacrifice.

[thirdwave]

Show me a pictograph of Jesus killing animals or people.

Guys!?, I think its crashed!... *slowly waves hand in front of your face*

Hello!??, Hello!!??

(worries that we really might have fucked his head up with the truth :eek: )

[watson_k]

Show me a pictograph of Jesus killing animals or people.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/leg/img/pl10.jpg

From the Horus cult center at Edfu - Horus spearing animals and holding his prisoners with a rope. (click to enlarge)

Horus was a bloodthirsty warrior who gloried in killing both animals and people. Jesus went into the temple at Passover to STOP the sacrifice of animals. He turned over the tables of the `money changers' who sold animals for sacrifice.

Im not sure if it's been said before. Horus was the conqueror of Set. Set being the manifestation of 'Evil'. Horus was thus the conqueror of Evil and all the emanations of Evil.

Do you disagree that Jesus was like that?

Jesus in modern times has become that of Hero worship. It would take one living in the time of Jesus to really figure out what is true about the real man and which is not. Could the same thing have perpetuated with Horus? Could Horus have just been a brilliant kind and loving man that brought light to the world, only for his memory to succumb to Hero Worship?

Unless you lived in the time of Horus, (the real man if there was one) you will never know.

[1977]

Please do not post quotes without quoting source, page, # etc.
Haha, you're not really saying that you don't recognize the Book of Revelation, are you?

FYI:
Revelation 1:7 (http://bible.cc/revelation/1-7.htm)
Revelation 19:5 (http://bible.cc/revelation/19-15.htm)

[miracles]

Guys!?, I think its crashed!... *slowly waves hand in front of your face*

Hello!??, Hello!!??

(worries that we really might have fucked his head up with the truth :eek: )

Right, which is what your "truth" has done to your head. LOL! Whats your bag today? Satan, Lucifer, Jesus, homer? Can any one see any similarities between Homer and Jesus?

http://www.markpascua.com/wp-content/real-homer-simpson.jpg

Apparently they have found some skull remains of the real Homer Simpson (Homersapien) and forensic CIA scientists (from the forensic unit of the CIA) have been able to create this life like model to give us a glimpse into what he really looked like. Yes thats right, cartoons used to be real in ancient egypt. It's true. Click on the image to enlarge. The forensic scietost have done a great job. The resemblance is so strikingly similar to the cartoon simpson its uncanny. It makes me think the creators of the simpsons know a heck of a lot more than they are letting on.

Here we see evidence of Homers face in an ancient gourd, found 20 years ago but released for all the world to see today. Scientists state that its 47 million years old, and thats the truth too. On Sundays, a Catholic nun can see a tear come out of it's left eye. She charges a buck fifty for others to see it and has consequently made a million quid in a month of sundays. (apparently they have to be slain in the spirit first before they can see the tear, they dont seem to mind this at all.) Dont worry she's not a capitilist, she donates it all to futher research for the benefit of all mankind. All true! ( although she does uses some of the funds to collect a cache of AK 47s for the armed uprisng in september of next year, after the summer solstice). Im not doing all the research for you, you will have to find out for yourselves where in the world summer is in september to figure out where the battle will commense, but if you join my on line club for 14.95 a month free tickets will be provided al long with a secret map in sigil language. NB: this map will have to be viewed through the third eye* in order to make sense of it. CHRISTIANS NOT INVITED (sorry, no offense, we just dont think you'll like it)

http://jontownsend.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/homer-simpson-on-gourd.jpg

*The thrid eye is situated in the middle part of your forhead perpendicular to the middde of your nose, about one and half nose lenghts up depending on the size (of your nose). It is not to be confused with.. well lets just say it is no where near the lower part of your body.

[thirdwave]

Right, which is what your "truth" has done to your head. LOL! Whats your bag today? Satan, Lucifer, Jesus, homer? Can any one see any similarities between Homer and Jesus?

http://www.markpascua.com/wp-content/real-homer-simpson.jpg

Apparently they have found some skull remains of the real Homer Simpson (Homersapien) and forensic CIA scientists (from the forensic unit of the CIA) have been able to create this life like model to give us a glimpse into what he really looked like. Yes thats right, cartoons used to be real in ancient egypt. It's true. Click on the image to enlarge. The forensic scietost have done a great job. The resemblance is so strikingly similar to the cartoon simpson its uncanny. It makes me think the creators of the simpsons know a heck of a lot more than they are letting on.

Here we see evidence of Homers face in an ancient gourd, found 20 years ago but released for all the world to see today. Scientists state that its 47 million years old, and thats the truth too. On Sundays, a Catholic nun can see a tear come out of it's left eye. She charges a buck fifty for others to see it and has consequently made a million quid in a month of sundays. (apparently they have to be slain in the spirit first before they can see the tear, they dont seem to mind this at all.) Dont worry she's not a capitilist, she donates it all to futher research for the benefit of all mankind. All true! ( although she does uses some of the funds to collect a cache of AK 47s for the armed uprisng in september of next year, after the summer solstice). Im not doing all the research for you, you will have to find out for yourselves where in the world summer is in september to figure out where the battle will commense, but if you join my on line club for 14.95 a month free tickets will be provided al long with a secret map in sigil language. NB: this map will have to be viewed through the third eye* in order to make sense of it. CHRISTIANS NOT INVITED (sorry, no offense, we just dont think you'll like it)

http://jontownsend.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/homer-simpson-on-gourd.jpg

*The thrid eye is situated in the middle part of your forhead perpendicular to the middde of your nose, about one and half nose lenghts up depending on the size (of your nose). It is not to be confused with.. well lets just say it is no where near the lower part of your body.

lol, well what ever you say :)

[uncia]

I think its pretty obvious that the Isis/Horus myth sprang from the Ninius/Semiramis/Tammuz Babylonian myth which appears to have been the birth of all goddess worship throughout the entire world.

"Babylon… the nations drank her wine; Therefore the nations are deranged” (Jeremiah 51:7).

Semiramis was a whore who seems to have deified herself, consequent to her deification of her dead husband, Nimrod. Tammuz her illegitimate son was asserted to be Nimrod reborn.

The Roman Catholic system by its idolization of Mary and the infant Jesus perpetuated the idolatry, but the reality is that neither Mary nor the infancy of Christ is of particular significance in traditional Christian theology - see the Gospel of John.

[element]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4112&stc=1&d=1243040023


LoL :D

[miracles]

lol, well what ever you say :)

Lol and least ive got a smile on my face, and Im qute fit looking:)

[drakul]

Amazing - not one of the posters on this thread who contends that Horus was the Egyptian Jesus has posted ONE THING proving it. Where is all the evidence of all your claims about HORUS???

Where is the pictograph of Horus being baptised, of his 12 disciples, of his baptiser being beheaded, (like John the Baptist), of Horus being CRUCIFIED??? etc etc Of course, they are nowhere. Because they DON"T EXIST.

I have posted at least 6 direct translations of Egyptian temple texts and pictographs showing that Horus was not a Jesus figure at all - Horus was known as the `AVENGER'. Horus was a bloodthirsty warlord who joyed in killing. Horus committed human sacrifice. Horus beheaded his mother Isis. Which proves my point that not one of you knows a damn thing about Egyptology, nor even cares to learn or even do a little research. Pitiful Sheople - baaa baaaa baaaa.

Murdock is just a CON ARTIST just trying to sell her book.

[drakul]

Here is another description of the Horus myth from the temple texts at Edfu Egypt -

The last great fight in the North took place at Tanis, in the eastern part of the Delta. When the position of the enemy had been located, Horus took the form of a lion with the face of a man, and he put on his head the Triple Crown. His claws were like flints, and with them he dragged away one hundred and forty-two of the enemy, and tore them in pieces, and dug out their tongues, which he carried off as symbols of his victory.

[watson_k]

Amazing - not one of the posters on this thread who contends that Horus was the Egyptian Jesus has posted ONE THING proving it. Where is all the evidence of all your claims about HORUS???

Where is the pictograph of Horus being baptised, of his 12 disciples, of his baptiser being beheaded, (like John the Baptist), of Horus being CRUCIFIED??? etc etc Of course, they are nowhere. Because they DON"T EXIST.

I have posted at least 6 direct translations of Egyptian temple texts and pictographs showing that Horus was not a Jesus figure at all - Horus was known as the `AVENGER'. Horus was a bloodthirsty warlord who joyed in killing. Horus committed human sacrifice. Horus beheaded his mother Isis. Which proves my point that not one of you knows a damn thing about Egyptology, nor even cares to learn or even do a little research. Pitiful Sheople - baaa baaaa baaaa.

Murdock is just a CON ARTIST just trying to sell her book.

There is no need to be so condescending.

The fact that Mother Mary is taken from the Cult of Isis is irrefutable. They never even bothered to change the iconography.

It isn't too much of a stretch to think their Issues are also of the same origin.

Horus was the Protector and Savior of Egypt from the hands of Seth. Jesus is looked at as the savior of mankind. The stories of the life's of these men maybe taken from real people, but one cannot help but look at the stories passed down to us from antiquity and theorise the similarities between them. Please don't make out that your apparent factual knowledge is infallible, Oh wise one.

[drakul]

There is no need to be so condescending.

The fact that Mother Mary is taken from the Cult of Isis is irrefutable. They never even bothered to change the iconography.

It isn't too much of a stretch to think their Issues are also of the same origin.

Horus was the Protector and Savior of Egypt from the hands of Seth. Jesus is looked at as the savior of mankind. The stories of the life's of these men maybe taken from real people, but one cannot help but look at the stories passed down to us from antiquity and theorise the similarities between them. Please don't make out that your apparent factual knowledge is infallible, Oh wise one.

Mother Mary/Isis - is that the best you can do? ALL children have mothers and are nurtured by their mothers. Mother/goddess worship has been practiced since time immemorial - long before the Egyptians.

Why don't you do some research, show us some of the similarities DM Murdock claims in her book = Jesus in Egypt, like I mentioned above? Chief among them that Horus was crucified. Worship of Horus is extremely old - at least 4,500 years, so it shouldn't be difficult, considering the Egyptians left millions of texts and artifacts.

[uncia]

The fact that Mother Mary is taken from the Cult of Isis is irrefutable. They never even bothered to change the iconography.
Yes but you are confusing Christianity as corrupted by the papacy, and orthodoxy. "Mother Mary" does not feature in orthodox belief (with a small 'o') but only in unauthorized mutants. In fact it is possible to trace Mariolatry back to a second century AD monkish invention. Also you forget that paganism is a corruption of true religion, which was always in the world. The bible consistently attributes that corruption to Babylon, and hence to Egypt which replicated its pantheon. BY the time of Christ, the Jewish world had been rejecting all such corruption since the Babylonian exile, i.e. for five hundred years the Jews jad been free of such idolatry as existed in Babylon and Egypt. The Christ history and theology of Christ bears no resemblance to any pagan fertility cults.

[drakul]

What makes Jesus real to me - beyond anything else - is his selfless act of going into the great temple on Passover and `turning over the tables of the money changers and sellers of sacrifices'. IOW - Jesus stopped the sacrifices and sales of sacrifices. Jesus directly confronted the priestly system of wealth and power and fear. Even though he knew he would be almost immediately killed for this act. A shame it has been so downplayed in the Bible for what it really was. Jesus must have thought about it for a very long time, he must have prayed about it and talked about it with his followers.

Note however that none of the original 50 Bibles pub by Constantine in 325AD exist. Nor does the first Bible composed only of the NT pub by Marcion in 134AD. A shame. Perhaps the Vatican has some of these first Bibles locked up in its vaults from when the 4th Crusade attacked and pillaged Constantinople in 1204???

However the fact that this single act of Jesus to stop the blood sacrifices was CENTRAL to early Christian belief is reflected in:

1. Christians were identified and persecuted and killed because they refused to sacrifice.

2. The first act of the Christians when they became the official religion of the Roman empire was to BAN BLOOD SACRIFICE AND THE GLADIATORIAL GAMES, (human sacrifice). Christians considered this propitiation of demons. And what else could it be?

No other `savior god' ever did this: directly confronted the power/fear base of the priestly ruling class. Not Horus, or Buddha or Dionysus or Mithra or any other god. This very personal struggle against all and overwhelming odds is what makes Jesus Christ so real and unforgettable.

[uncia]

I don't think you're right Drakul. The sacrifices were not ordained to be stopped till Jesus had died, and the temple curtain was rent in twain, indicating that the way into the Holy of Holies was now open by faith his atonement by his blood and that there was no further need for them.

Overturning the tables of the money changes was not to stop sacrifice, but because they were profiting out of the need of the pilgrims to sacrifice.

[drakul]

]I don't think you're right Drakul. The sacrifices were not ordained to be stopped till Jesus had died, and the temple curtain was rent in twain, indicating that the way into the Holy of Holies was now open by faith his atonement by his blood and that there was no further need for them.

1. What is your source for this?

Overturning the tables of the money changes was not to stop sacrifice, but because they were profiting out of the need of the pilgrims to sacrifice.

So you think there's nothing wrong with Blood Sacrifice? What do you think the money changers were doing in the temple?

Luke 1438:45 -And he went into the temple and began to cast out them that sold therein and them that bought.

So what were they SELLING in the temple? Obviously they had to be selling animal SACRIFICES because people were required to supply live animals for sacrifice to propitiate the Jewish Jehovah. The Bible states that if people were too poor to afford a larger animal they bought 2 white doves to be sacrificed. That's why in the Hollywood movies we always see white doves flying up out of the cages when Jesus turns over the tables.

If Blood Sacrfice was banned because it was considered to be propitiation of demonic entities, wouldn't Jehovah have been considered demonic by early Christians? There was a huge push by the Marcionites among other groups to keep the OT out of the Bible.

Who do you think is the Hidden Hand pushing and funding this avalanche of attacks on Jesus Christ that we are seeing today?

[uncia]

[QUOTE=uncia;1008630]

1. What is your source for this?

It's obvious. Why else would the temple curtain have been rent in twain at his crucifixion?


So you think there's nothing wrong with Blood Sacrifice?

How can there be anything wrong with it if the law required it?


What do you think the money changers were doing in the temple?

Swindling people out of their money.


So what were they SELLING in the temple? Obviously they had to be selling animal SACRIFICES because people were required to supply live animals for sacrifice to propitiate the Jewish Jehovah. The Bible states that if people were too poor to afford a larger animal they bought 2 white doves to be sacrificed. That's why in the Hollywood movies we always see white doves flying up out of the cages when Jesus turns over the tables.

If Blood Sacrfice was banned because it was considered to be propitiation of demonic entities, wouldn't Jehovah have been considered demonic by early Christians? There was a huge push by the Marcionites among other groups to keep the OT out of the Bible.

You are missing the point that the law ordained that "without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness". Blood sacrifices were required in accordance with the law, and that of Christ was the final one.

Blood sacrifices not in accordance with the law, are to demonic entities.


Who do you think is the Hidden Hand pushing and funding this avalanche of attacks on Jesus Christ that we are seeing today?
The twin beasts and the desire to worship them.

[thirdwave]

the old Christians arguing with each other syndrome...

so busy trying to defend the pantomime, they cross wires every now and then and realise the other is exposing their cracks :D

[miracles]

the old Christians arguing with each other syndrome...

so busy trying to defend the pantomime, they cross wires every now and then and realise the other is exposing their cracks :D

Right like you blokes are all on the same page.

I wasnt aware this was a Christians verses non Christians invironment. Anything to score an imaginary point, play your game. Are you winning? :D

[thirdwave]

Right like you blokes are all on the same page.

lol, why would we all be on the same page?... what bible do we see as the word of God?.. what god do we all worship?

errr none!

however, you guys are meant to be inspired by the factual bible and its god....

there for when you guys cant agree its more entertaining...

I wasnt aware this was a Christians verses non Christians invironment. Anything to score an imaginary point, play your game. Are you winning? :D
Well I was not aware you were being told anything of the sort...

The real question is for you and why one not aloud to express their distaste for religion on a David Icke forum, with out being accused of trying to create division by a Christian who comes here to defend his faith?

and of course I'm winning, I have the advantage of being right and not working around desired faith :D

[miracles]

lol, why would we all be on the same page?... what bible do we see as the word of God?.. what god do we all worship?

errr none!

however, you guys are meant to be inspired by the factual bible and its god....

there for when you guys cant agree its more entertaining...


Well I was not aware you were being told anything of the sort...

The real question is for you and why one not aloud to express their distaste for religion on a David Icke forum, with out being accused of trying to create division by a Christian who comes here to defend his faith?

and of course I'm winning, I have the advantage of being right and not working around desired faith :D

I suppose you got me there, what cant we agree on now fellas...??

The thing is I havent met one person here who claims to be Christian that I fully agree with on some of their views on the bible. Its doesnt mean the bible is different.

I have no issue with anyone voiseing their displeasure about anything, and particularly on a david Icke site, its expected isnt it? But to redicule all of christendom and the bible because two illedged Christians on a david Icke site dont agree on the minutae of everything is the resason why its written down and not handed down word of mouth.

[kidsarocker]

lol, why would we all be on the same page?... what bible do we see as the word of God?.. what god do we all worship?

errr none!

however, you guys are meant to be inspired by the factual bible and its god....

there for when you guys cant agree its more entertaining...


Well I was not aware you were being told anything of the sort...

The real question is for you and why one not aloud to express their distaste for religion on a David Icke forum, with out being accused of trying to create division by a Christian who comes here to defend his faith?

and of course I'm winning, I have the advantage of being right and not working around desired faith :D

What makes you think you are right? I bet you would believe any disinfor thrown in with the info, I could make a film like Zeitgeist and make 2 parts of it fact and one part false.

People say that the elite are destroying religion now because the tool has become obsolete. That is complete BS, let me tell you something - only 2% of the worlds population are athiests so why would they disgregard "a tool of control" if 98 % have a religion. The elite are attacking monotheistic religions because it stands in their way for the NWO and the arrival of the Anti Christ.

[kidsarocker]

LOL, that really is weak drakul - sounds like your communion you do on Easter Sunday at church when you drink the blood and east the flesh of Jesus. Yes, the Egyptians had the same ritual long before Christianity.

I especially love how you gloss over the biblical scripture that proves you wrong drakul - you have a tendency to ignore inconvenient facts that get in the way of your agenda, just like any other Christian apologist.



Revelation and Jesus' return killing 1/3rd of human population



Eventually 2/3rds of the human population i.e. NON-believers are to be wiped out in a mass genocide for not believing in god for which no valid evidence exists whatsoever - nice god ya got there.:eek:

And 44% of Christians are looking forward to this as a glorious time. Even the religious tolerance website says, "It will be numerically the largest mass extermination of humans in history."

Christians look forward to the MURDER of 2/3rds the worlds population that's over 4 BILLION people. Yeah, that's so much better !!!:rolleyes:

BS, 2/3 of the population will not be unbelievers it will be the believers - only 2% of the worlds population are athiests.

The dajjal will rule from jerusalem and if you refuse the mark you will die - so this goes to anyone not just unbelievers who refuse to bow down to the Dajjal

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What makes you think you are right? I bet you would believe any disinfor thrown in with the info, I could make a film like Zeitgeist and make 2 parts of it fact and one part false.

People say that the elite are destroying religion now because the tool has become obsolete. That is complete BS, let me tell you something - only 2% of the worlds population are athiests so why would they disgregard "a tool of control" if 98 % have a religion. The elite are attacking monotheistic religions because it stands in their way for the NWO and the arrival of the Anti Christ.
2%?? =/
I think it's more, if you look at Europe and China...
Atheism btw. is not believing in a deity, practically many people who practice spirituality can be atheists. Atheism isn't materialism.