This has put me off job hunting for life

[polveirbecker]

From: Piazza by Anthony (piazza@anthonysrestaurant.co.uk)
Sent: 27 October 2008 22:23:56
To: Damon Cooper

Dear Damon,

I agree, I don't know why you bothered sending me this??? Many thanks for your application, best of luck with your job search.

Regards
Chris Heath
General Manager
Piazza by Anthony
chrisheath@anthonysrestaurant.co.uk

On 27 Oct 2008, at 21:26, Damon Cooper wrote:

Dear Antony’s Restaurant

Here’s the relevant experience I’ve got -

Waiter at the Royal Armouries 2007

For my work experience as part of my Hospitality, Travel and Tourism course. I got to work at the Royal Armouries in Leeds where I got to learn the Hospitality trade quickly. Apart from delivering food, being nice to customers, clearing tables and cleaning up. I got to set up a conference room which meant sticking to a certain room design. This gave me an insight into setting up a room suitable for what ever the event.

Don’t even know why I bother sending this to be honest. Seems to me you want your company to be built of the backs of other companies experience.

Is this because you’ve took new people on board before and their rubbish or are you plain ignorant. Probably both.

Damon Cooper

[keystone]

Why?

[polveirbecker]

Why?

It just seems that everyone in this city is looking for experience which I would have to lie about to get. How the fuck are you suppose to get experience if no ones willing to give you it?

[size_of_light]

It just seems that everyone in this city is looking for experience which I would have to lie about to get. How the fuck are you suppose to get experience if no ones willing to give you it?

Tip #1: Always wait until after you get the job to call your employer ignorant. And then only behind his back ;)

Tip #2: Consider being creative with the truth instead of lying.

Tip #3: If Tip #2 fails, always remember George Costanza's advice: "Remember Jerry, it's not a lie if you believe it."

[darkhorse]

I loved it, thats the coolest covering letter I've ever seen,
just somebody being completely bloody honest for a change & the programmed "human resource" drone can't handle it,
I could'nt count the ammount of lies I told to get into jobs I hated.

Best wishes to you mate you made me smile.:)

[rhydra]

It's all part of keeping those who are in, in and making sure those who are out, stay out.

[keystone]

It just seems that everyone in this city is looking for experience which I would have to lie about to get. How the fuck are you suppose to get experience if no ones willing to give you it?Yes I see. "Experience" is very subjective and inevitably put in the advert to deter timewasters. The most important element is are YOU suited to the job in question. You have to convince the employer that this is the case and that you really want the job and that you are going to work your butt off for him/her.

Don’t even know why I bother sending this to be honest. Seems to me you want your company to be built of the backs of other companies experience.

Is this because you’ve took new people on board before and their rubbish or are you plain ignorant. Probably both.

This application got binned because it has "troublemaker" written all over it.

[polveirbecker]

__________________________________________________ ________________________________
It was an ignorant job advertisement anyways -

Full-time waiting staff required for exciting new development, Piazza by Anthony, in the Corn Exchange. Previous experience desired. If you can work full-time (all part-time vacancies have been filled) and want to be a part of this exciting new opportunity please contact Jo Seed at
__________________________________________________ ________________________________

The Experience desired is sick in an advertisement in my opinion. It borderlines people who desire certain people over others without giving others a chance. I think its about time employers gave equal opportunities to people with no or little experience. Everyone deserves a chance and because I don’t have the desired experience I’m out of the window and all this is bus boy what I believe you call them in America.


This application got binned because it has "troublemaker" written all over it.

I think that comment more than anything has stopped me from going any more insane than I’m already am. But the reason why I sent my email like that is because so many employers don’t bother replying. To come back with a comment like that was unnecessary although I was asking for it.

The Employer was just as unprofessional as the job seeker in this case you have to agree they.

[polveirbecker]

I loved it, thats the coolest covering letter I've ever seen,
just somebody being completely bloody honest for a change & the programmed "human resource" drone can't handle it,
I could'nt count the ammount of lies I told to get into jobs I hated.

Best wishes to you mate you made me smile.:)

Exactly and thank you

I’m sure there’s many people who’ve told a white lie to get into a job. In fact didn’t the winner of The Apprentice lie on his CV?

[pdcdp]

sorry all, but Anthony's is a very good place, even if you hadn't slagged them off in your covering letter you had no chance of a full time job there unless you really know your stuff or are really willing to put the work in and learn. it's just too big a risk for them as they are hotly tipped for a michelin star and everything has to be perfect. i thought you got a pretty civilised response, they didn't have to bother at all.

[keystone]

The Experience desired is sick in an advertisement in my opinion. It borderlines people who desire certain people over others without giving others a chance. I think its about time employers gave equal opportunities to people with no or little experience. Everyone deserves a chance and because I don’t have the desired experience I’m out of the window and all this is bus boy what I believe you call them in America.I agree with you and sympathise with your frustration (been there as have many before and many will after) but it is "experience desired" not "experience essential". If you are positive in your approach and overcome any feelings of negativity you may have by not having the desired experience then you can overcome that hurdle.

I think that comment more than anything has stopped me from going any more insane than I’m already am. But the reason why I sent my email like that is because so many employers don’t bother replying.You are right. When I first found myself needing a job I was told "you will get replies to about 10% of the applications you submit". Really helpful.

To come back with a comment like that was unnecessary although I was asking for it.Perhaps - but you were.

The Employer was just as unprofessional as the job seeker in this case you have to agree they.Well I have to admit I'd probably have reacted the same way - certainly privately. Look at it this way. Not only did it say "troublemaker" but it also said "I'm wasting your time" and "I'm really just taking the piss". Not a good way to win friends and influence people.

The interesting thing is, though, that you DID get a reply because you got yourself noticed. Get yourself noticed in a positive way that the potential employer perceives as a benefit to himself and his company and I'l bet you get the job - you'll certainly get an interview.

[polveirbecker]

sorry all, but Anthony's is a very good place, even if you hadn't slagged them off in your covering letter you had no chance of a full time job there unless you really know your stuff or are really willing to put the work in and learn. it's just too big a risk for them as they are hotly tipped for a michelin star and everything has to be perfect. i thought you got a pretty civilised response, they didn't have to bother at all.

I would be willing to learn and put in the work and I’m more than aware that Antony’s is a good restaurant and don’t have a vendetta against them and would not ask people not to eat they because that is they choice.

All I’m pointing out is and this is not just Antony’s that the word ‘experience’ is crippling people like me who don’t have the desired experience. Then there’s people who lie to get the job as shown earlier in the thread.

I’ve told the truth all my life and look where its got me?

Where are the morals in this world?

Also the word perfect. it’s a bit un-human. The minute you can get robot waiters you will! I’m not perfect but you will find that I’ve got good dedication.

[polveirbecker]

The interesting thing is, though, that you DID get a reply because you got yourself noticed. Get yourself noticed in a positive way that the potential employer perceives as a benefit to himself and his company and I'l bet you get the job - you'll certainly get an interview.

If anything positive has come out of this experience its your words of wisdom and me highlighting the plight of been a job seeker. Its just been a terrible experience for me from the very minute I started because I always viewed been on JSA as the scum of the earth and that’s what I feel like right now.

I just feel like giving up and becoming scum of the world IMO (For a minuite I’m not saying that people on JSA are the scum of the earth, its just my opinions and feelings. I don’t judge people like that but I do with myself).

[zero1]

What put me off job-hunting was the thought of having a job.

[polveirbecker]

What put me off job-hunting was the thought of having a job.

I don’t want a job but peer pressure is causing me to get a job. If it was my choice I would just do lists and Youtube videos all the time but my peers won’t accept that. So I’ve got to get some money so I can bribe them that what I’m doing is acceptable.

[zero1]

I don’t want a job but peer pressure is causing me to get a job. If it was my choice I would just do lists and Youtube videos all the time but my peers won’t accept that. So I’ve got to get some money so I can bribe them that what I’m doing is acceptable.

Yeah, dude I know - it's a Hard Knock life. Gotta get the money, be busy, make yourself useful. Peers suck if they're ragging on you allthetime about shit you don't feel is right for you. I sympathize. We can hope for a better way, but in the meantime it's survival and make-the-best-of-your-own-situation, y'know? Peace.

[polveirbecker]

Yeah, dude I know - it's a Hard Knock life. Gotta get the money, be busy, make yourself useful. Peers suck if they're ragging on you allthetime about shit you don't feel is right for you. I sympathize. We can hope for a better way, but in the meantime it's survival and make-the-best-of-your-own-situation, y'know? Peace.

cheers for that

I'm going to bed now

Peace

[zero1]

cheers for that

I'm going to bed now

Peace

Sleep tight. :)

[limelady]

Maybe you could volunteer your time a few hours a week somewhere to get some experience you can then put on your applications? You will also be able to get a written reference form the company you helped out at. If all went well, they might actually give you a job anyway?

Just a thought. :)

[pdcdp]

I would be willing to learn and put in the work and I’m more than aware that Antony’s is a good restaurant and don’t have a vendetta against them and would not ask people not to eat they because that is they choice.

All I’m pointing out is and this is not just Antony’s that the word ‘experience’ is crippling people like me who don’t have the desired experience. Then there’s people who lie to get the job as shown earlier in the thread.

I’ve told the truth all my life and look where its got me?

Where are the morals in this world?

Also the word perfect. it’s a bit un-human. The minute you can get robot waiters you will! I’m not perfect but you will find that I’ve got good dedication.

chief, i do know what you mean and i know it's hard, but 'they' have got us done up like a kipper and you have to learn how to (appear to) play by their rules. i have relinquished my career in the local industry and am now working freelance, precisely because the f+b industry is no longer worth the ever increasing restraints and workload.

they have no morals with regard to us, and want us to be depressed and angry with each other. perfectionism may seem rather clinical, but the more affluent sheeple of our society have been groomed into valuing the distinction of their class from us. it's all about the money, from top to bottom, our honesty and morals are irrelevant to this system.

we know 'they' lie constantly to fit their agenda, and this is accepted throughout the system and you are thereby licensed to follow suit. just don't claim to have skills you don't have, and be wary that the people you are applying to will know their local industry so be careful on your cv work history.

that aside, this here keystone chap seems to be feeding you the best advice, take it on board...

also....
-try city catering, they almost always have temp waiters work at short notice.:)
-DON'T try SVB recruitment, you will want to kill yourself afterwards...:mad:
-write a well thought out, positive and honest letter offering your services on a freelance basis and send it to your preferred places. takes a little while to get a response but you can charge agency rates, or slightly under. christmas is coming....;)
-don't blame the people you have negative dealings with, they're just ignorant to the cause of society's ills, not really their fault...

look up, not forward!:cool:

[polveirbecker]

BTW Folks

Thanks for the advice. I’m actually going to take some of this stuff on board!

This has been the kick up the backside I’ve needed

[i_am]

Maybe you could volunteer your time a few hours a week somewhere to get some experience you can then put on your applications? You will also be able to get a written reference form the company you helped out at. If all went well, they might actually give you a job anyway?

Just a thought. :)

I can vouch for the effectiveness of this. I used to co-ordinate a volunteer program which was accepted by centrelink (Aus job center)

I placed people into voluntary positions with community organisations, up to the accepted hours to still retain their benefits. They gained experience and references, and I had a paid job success rate of over 80%.

The ad said experience DESIRED not essential. Your attitude and presentation could very well have convinced them you were worth training.

Sorry but that application had, "I don't really want a job. I am only applying because I have to" wrtten all over it. It had attitude but the wrong kind for the hospitality industry, I'm afraid.

At least you made enough of an impression to get a reply :p

[hirschfelder]

The opening post of this thread is probably the greatest opening post on any thread anywhere ever

I think I'll save up and go for a feed at the new Anthony's before xmas, by the way. At least there'll be no bolshy waiters

[polveirbecker]

The opening post of this thread is probably the greatest opening post on any thread anywhere ever

I think I'll save up and go for a feed at the new Anthony's before xmas, by the way. At least there'll be no bolshy waiters


:rolleyes:

I think I’ll eat they two if it boasts to have the best waiters in the world!

[al ciada]

I would be willing to learn and put in the work and I’m more than aware that Antony’s is a good restaurant and don’t have a vendetta against them and would not ask people not to eat they because that is they choice.

All I’m pointing out is and this is not just Antony’s that the word ‘experience’ is crippling people like me who don’t have the desired experience. Then there’s people who lie to get the job as shown earlier in the thread.

I’ve told the truth all my life and look where its got me?

Where are the morals in this world?

Also the word perfect. it’s a bit un-human. The minute you can get robot waiters you will! I’m not perfect but you will find that I’ve got good dedication.

The dude whants experienced staff for his buisness. WTF have you got to offer? Attitude (not the good kind), a loud mouth and not much optimistic sight.
Would YOU employ you after that letter? Nope!

[clint web]

Why did you think you wouldn't get a job as a waiter?

It's not as if you were applying to be an astronaut.

Have more faith in yourself. Also, get someone to check your grammar before sending for jobs in the future.

Good luck with it.

[light seeker]

I suppose the other thing to bear in mind is that this job role probably attracted a lot of applications.

Part of my old job was being responsible for putting ads out, collating all apps received and responding to everyone who applied - unsuccessful or successful. I would receive literally between 70 and 100 for each job role advertised (which woud range from factory to office worker). The volume was huge.

Please don't be too dismayed. It may be a competitive market. Did you know that by law you're entitled to request and receive feedback? Even if you're not shortlisted for an interview, the fact is if you want to find out where you fell short, you are entitled to ask and receive this information. This can only be a positive thing in helping you build a better application for the future.

Limelady made a really good suggestion about volunteering in order to gain further experience. Clint Web made an excellent point concerning grammar-check before submitting your app. Don't mean to be finicky, but it is one of those things that employers do tend to notice and can make all the difference between your app being binned or being followed up for interview.

Don't be disheartened, it may be just that this particular job wasn't for you. Don't be deterred, and very best of luck to you.

:)

[americana]

I suppose the other thing to bear in mind is that this job role probably attracted a lot of applications.

Part of my old job was being responsible for putting ads out, collating all apps received and responding to everyone who applied - unsuccessful or successful. I would receive literally between 70 and 100 for each job role advertised (which woud range from factory to office worker). The volume was huge.
:)

This is a great thread, and it has attracted high-quality answers. Heck, the advice here is far superior to the nasty trolling one sees on the Craigslist job board!

I agree with light seeker in that the ad probably attracted hundreds of applicants. After all, from what other people are saying, it's a restaurant group with an excellent reputation, and that will get responses in droves.

Listen, if your letter is polite, no spelling and grammar errors, and you've maybe personalized it a bit for the particular employer, those are all pluses. Loads of people send in letters, and they're just "form" letters, giving no indication they know which job or which firm!

Just this morning, I was talking to a lady who placed a job ad for a position at a rather posh retail establishment. She received hundreds of responses, most of which she didn't even bother opening. Why was that? Well, the email addresses put her off. Things like sexuupsexmeup@whatever.com ! Can you believe people are responding to job ads with email accounts like that!

So by being professional and showing enthusiasm for the particular job/ company, you'll have a leg up.

Also, I've often found that a response to my letter and resume may happen MONTHS later! I've sometimes received an email from the employer and then scrambled around in my mind trying to remember which job ad I applied for and when!

[largejack]

You were marvellous, just enjoy your life experience and remember don't comply to slavery and grovelling, truth will reveal all :D

[polveirbecker]

Some of you may be please to know that I have an interview at this place here -

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa145/damoleeds/directionsltspdf-AdobeReader.jpg

I do have some slight suspicions with this place for a number of reasons. The Illuminati symbolism at the top along with the name of the company that’s interviewing me - Bohemian Marketing Ltd.

I am also been invited at 3.30. Take away the zero and the dot in that time and see what you get. Maybe I am a 33 degree Freemason after all…

Also I don’t even remember applying for this job!

[keystone]

What Illuminati symbolism? I see none.

[polveirbecker]

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa145/damoleeds/Circleditforyou.jpg

I’ve circled it for you

The all seeing eye in the Pyramid

[keystone]

I’ve circled it for you

The all seeing eye in the PyramidNow you are avin a larf aren't you?

[polveirbecker]

Now you are avin a larf aren't you?


YES :D

But I have got an interview at that place.

Also if I’ve not posted on this thread by Thursday Evening the Illuminati have got to me.

[keystone]

YES :DThank heavens for that.

But I have got an interview at that place.Best of luck, be positive, I'm sure you'll be OK. Oh and don't forget you'll need to be interviewing them as well perhaps to a lesser extent but it's a two way street.

[polveirbecker]

Best of luck, be positive, I'm sure you'll be OK. Oh and don't forget you'll need to be interviewing them as well perhaps to a lesser extent but it's a two way street.

Cheers for everything xD

[polveirbecker]

I'm back from that place and alive.

[keystone]

I'm back from that place and alive.How'd you get on? Don't have to say if you don't want to. I'll not be offended if it's a "mind your own business" scenario.

[danster82]

I think it would be great if all people would refuse to provide the ins and outs of a cats arsehole in information when applying for jobs. Instead simply say I dont have that information however I am capable of doing the job if you require me heres my contact.

But it would take more people to have some integrity about them and do the same thing where corporations will then no longer have the ability to demand so much. They labeled us the "human resource" now we must make them the corporate resource for our pleasure.

[polveirbecker]

How'd you get on? Don't have to say if you don't want to. I'll not be offended if it's a "mind your own business" scenario.

Went Rubbish but aw well xP

Was an experiance