Why stay then???

[james777]

Something has been troubling me for quite some time, ever since I read my first Icke book. It's this whole, 'We live in the matrix' thing. I mean I'm not opposed to the idea and I've always kept an open mind when dealing with new information, so I questioned, reasoned, debated and finally decided that this whole 'matrix' thing is just as fake as the movie. I just have to be honest and then ask you an honest question. If I truly believed (which I do NOT) that we live in a controlled 'matrix' of a world, I would have killed myself long ago. My question to you (if you believe in this 'matrix' reality) is, "Why stay then? Why not just kill yourself and end this senseless, useless and meaningless life? Or is it because you know that there's more to it? More meaning, more use, more sense?

I don't know, I just use my logic when reasoning and I just have to release what doesn't make sense and living in this 'matrix' world just doesn't make any. Each one of our lives are valuable, precious and meaningful so finding our purpose and our place in this world is only half the battle, knowing ourselves, our nature and our true origins is the other half and combined we realize our limitless potential and our absolute merit.

[auron]

"Why stay then? Why not just kill yourself and end this senseless, useless and meaningless life?

I enjoy it here too much!

Auron :)

[james777]

I enjoy it here too much!

Auron :)


How do you know you like it too much if it's all fake (if you believe in the matrix scenario)? Or do you actually enjoy useless, meaningless and senseless things?

Not attacking you here, just some honest questions to gain perspective....

[gordonfreeman]

Mostly, everyone does.

[mada88]

If you kill yourself you are just giving in to negative beings who can't come round and kill you because they respect free will. So they will make you kill yourself. Anyway there is no death anyway because there is no such thing as living. There are soooo many basic words that can not be defined real for example and life. E=mc2 proves that death is bullshit.
Does anyone reflect on the end chapters of infinite love? about choice, knowing and purpose? and not identifiying with the computer program.

[earthseed]

You know Robert Monroe explained it very well in his series of books. We are addicted to this reality. We come back in over and over again for that M-band noise. There are games within games here! Being infinite or the projection of the infinite can be really boring.

[james777]

If you kill yourself you are just giving in to negative beings who can't come round and kill you because they respect free will. So they will make you kill yourself. Anyway there is no death anyway because there is no such thing as living. There are soooo many basic words that can not be defined real for example and life. E=mc2 proves that death is bullshit.
Does anyone reflect on the end chapters of infinite love? about choice, knowing and purpose? and not identifiying with the computer program.

I'm gonna have to completely disagree and I'll tell you why. If there is no death and no living, then how can there be negativity?? If nothing is real then nothing is fake. Matter turning into energy and energy into matter does NOT make death bullshit! I'm not really sure what you think you're talking about here, but maybe you can be a bit more clear and explain your answers instead of just tossing around rigid opinions.

[james777]

You know Robert Monroe explained it very well in his series of books. We are addicted to this reality. We come back in over and over again for that M-band noise. There are games within games here! Being infinite or the projection of the infinite can be really boring.

I understand Monroe's concepts, but I can't take his word for it. He has no tangible proof or evidence so as far as I'm concerned he's just speaking useless conjecture. I just don't understand how we have all these, so-called, experts, but in reality, no one can prove anything when it comes to things outside of our ability to comprehend. No man knows the truth, he just believes what he thinks is true, thus not meaning it is true.

[auron]

I used to get wound up over things like this a couple of years ago. Now i have learned that you either spend your time worrying about this stuff, or to sit back, relax with a smoke and enjoy everything around you.

This kinda stuff is so mind boggling, you can never find an answer to it intellectually. So i say sod it! Dance to the music, and get stoned with other like minded people instead! A much better option in my opinion!

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5008/jointun9.gif

Auron http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/621/peaceyf8.gif

[james777]

I used to get wound up over things like this a couple of years ago. Now i have learned that you either spend your time worrying about this stuff, or to sit back, relax with a smoke and enjoy everything around you.

This kinda stuff is so mind boggling, you can never find an answer to it intellectually. So i say sod it! Dance to the music, and get stoned with other like minded people instead! A much better option in my opinion!

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5008/jointun9.gif

Auron http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/621/peaceyf8.gif

Not that I don't thoroughly enjoy some nice green fluff in my blood, but still I can't let it rest.....I guess I'm just a truth-seeker, so a truth-seeker I'll be.....

[aznality]

Another important reason; we have people here who we love. It would be quite inconsiderate to let your family and friends to grieve over your dead body.

[celtic isis]

Something has been troubling me for quite some time, ever since I read my first Icke book. It's this whole, 'We live in the matrix' thing. I mean I'm not opposed to the idea and I've always kept an open mind when dealing with new information, so I questioned, reasoned, debated and finally decided that this whole 'matrix' thing is just as fake as the movie. I just have to be honest and then ask you an honest question. If I truly believed (which I do NOT) that we live in a controlled 'matrix' of a world, I would have killed myself long ago. My question to you (if you believe in this 'matrix' reality) is, "Why stay then? Why not just kill yourself and end this senseless, useless and meaningless life? Or is it because you know that there's more to it? More meaning, more use, more sense?

I don't know, I just use my logic when reasoning and I just have to release what doesn't make sense and living in this 'matrix' world just doesn't make any. Each one of our lives are valuable, precious and meaningful so finding our purpose and our place in this world is only half the battle, knowing ourselves, our nature and our true origins is the other half and combined we realize our limitless potential and our absolute merit.

ah james, lol you're missing the point yet again about what icke is saying...the whole matrix thing, well i don't really 'believe' init either, but it's possible...but like icke tries to set us all free by realising things that are a 'piece of shit' so just walk away and live your life.

Have you read I am Me, I am FREE'? If you haven't then DO! a

[celtic isis]

Something has been troubling me for quite some time, ever since I read my first Icke book. It's this whole, 'We live in the matrix' thing. I mean I'm not opposed to the idea and I've always kept an open mind when dealing with new information, so I questioned, reasoned, debated and finally decided that this whole 'matrix' thing is just as fake as the movie. I just have to be honest and then ask you an honest question. If I truly believed (which I do NOT) that we live in a controlled 'matrix' of a world, I would have killed myself long ago. My question to you (if you believe in this 'matrix' reality) is, "Why stay then? Why not just kill yourself and end this senseless, useless and meaningless life? Or is it because you know that there's more to it? More meaning, more use, more sense?

I don't know, I just use my logic when reasoning and I just have to release what doesn't make sense and living in this 'matrix' world just doesn't make any. Each one of our lives are valuable, precious and meaningful so finding our purpose and our place in this world is only half the battle, knowing ourselves, our nature and our true origins is the other half and combined we realize our limitless potential and our absolute merit.

ah james, lol you're missing the point yet again about what icke is saying...he actually says what you just said in your last lines there! The whole matrix thing, well i don't really 'believe' in it either, but it's possible...but like icke tries to set us all free by realising things that are a 'piece of shit' so just walk away and live your life.

Have you read I am Me, I am FREE'? If you haven't then DO!

Look, we're all here to evolve, to experience and to learn. Everything is a cycle, part of a system plan as ColdPlay put it, so therefore, when we 'die,' we are actually just continuing the cycle and are reborn into the next cycle. This is really how it is only it's kept from us, to imprison us in fear and therefore control us, worrying about when we will die, getting old, getting ill etc etc...

Look, we've found out about all this crap for a reason cause we are the ones who will try and wake our other stupid brothers and sisters ( i know i should love them all but i'm sorry i don't, there are too many assholes on this planet for that) wake them from their sleepwalking before it's too late for us and for the planet in general. And also, because IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

If we all killed ourselves well, what will that achieve? i do think about it too, i even thought about it yesterday, like oh to hell with it all, this NWO crap, saving people crap, mainly cause i'm still in the grieving process myself after a terrible loss..which has even empowered me more to fight, though i know to fight isn't the thing we have to do...

i've really lost a lot of faith in humankind lately, just be how annoying people are...i can't even go do a bit of shopping without being harassed lately..just leave me alone french fuckers! hopefully the sunglasses i'm now wearing will help them see not to approach me. It's sad cause i'm the kind of person who likes to help everyone but i only get shit in return it seems.

anyway i intend to continue to research the NWO wholze thing and to bring myself up to higher consciousness...i already have cause usually i'm always in my happy mode, peaceful mode of just being...though i'm still too sensitive to other people's crap which brings me back down when i'm not so careful...i should just walk away more.

i'm not scared of dying, though i don't want to for awhile yet, i'll be glad to get out of here lol and have some peace. I've been through a hell of a lot in my almost 25 years, and i've evolved, i've remained a good person and i'm a survivor, and i am happy, i know i don't sound it but i am happy and i love who i am and the people i have in my life, well some of them anyway lol

I see how much beauty and love the earth has and it makes me sad to see how selfish most of humanity is and how stupid that they rape the planet for their own needs and don't give a fuck about anyone. Good people are fewer and far between.

I'm really on a downer from disappointment with people lately, i even don't care if the NWO gets brought in, i'll save my ass and my loved ones and the rest can just starve to death in work camps for all i care now. Sad but true.

i know my origins, i know who i am as a human being and i also know what my purpose is in life. I'll do my best to fulfill that purpose and then i'll be out of here.

wow though what a world we would have if everyone would just wake up and find thir true potential as you said. People are too material now, too pathetic as well for that ever to happen. Most people just want to bring the rest of us down all the time. That's it.

[turquoisefyre]

"Why stay then? Why not just kill yourself and end this senseless, useless and meaningless life?

i've had an intuition for a few years now that i could in the future regret not ending my life...

but i've realised...i'm not leaving untill i know what i've come here to do...

i remember being in bad situations before, and the mistake i made with some of them is that i didn't allow myself to stay fully aware...kind of ignoring what i was going through. that was a mistake.

so now i've realised it's a bonus to pay attention otherwise you could end up in the same situation in the future.

the key then, i suppose, is to expect the worst and make it the best...not vice versa.

[mada88]

Whats my purpose? purpose controls. I like the bit about life being addictive because yeah it probably is.
It doesn't matter if you agree or not I don't give a shit what you believe.

[mada88]

"Why stay then?" are you wanting to escape? and go where?

[james777]

ah james, lol you're missing the point yet again about what icke is saying...he actually says what you just said in your last lines there! The whole matrix thing, well i don't really 'believe' in it either, but it's possible...but like icke tries to set us all free by realising things that are a 'piece of shit' so just walk away and live your life.

Have you read I am Me, I am FREE'? If you haven't then DO!

Look, we're all here to evolve, to experience and to learn. Everything is a cycle, part of a system plan as ColdPlay put it, so therefore, when we 'die,' we are actually just continuing the cycle and are reborn into the next cycle. This is really how it is only it's kept from us, to imprison us in fear and therefore control us, worrying about when we will die, getting old, getting ill etc etc...

Look, we've found out about all this crap for a reason cause we are the ones who will try and wake our other stupid brothers and sisters ( i know i should love them all but i'm sorry i don't, there are too many assholes on this planet for that) wake them from their sleepwalking before it's too late for us and for the planet in general. And also, because IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

If we all killed ourselves well, what will that achieve? i do think about it too, i even thought about it yesterday, like oh to hell with it all, this NWO crap, saving people crap, mainly cause i'm still in the grieving process myself after a terrible loss..which has even empowered me more to fight, though i know to fight isn't the thing we have to do...

i've really lost a lot of faith in humankind lately, just be how annoying people are...i can't even go do a bit of shopping without being harassed lately..just leave me alone french fuckers! hopefully the sunglasses i'm now wearing will help them see not to approach me. It's sad cause i'm the kind of person who likes to help everyone but i only get shit in return it seems.

anyway i intend to continue to research the NWO wholze thing and to bring myself up to higher consciousness...i already have cause usually i'm always in my happy mode, peaceful mode of just being...though i'm still too sensitive to other people's crap which brings me back down when i'm not so careful...i should just walk away more.

i'm not scared of dying, though i don't want to for awhile yet, i'll be glad to get out of here lol and have some peace. I've been through a hell of a lot in my almost 25 years, and i've evolved, i've remained a good person and i'm a survivor, and i am happy, i know i don't sound it but i am happy and i love who i am and the people i have in my life, well some of them anyway lol

I see how much beauty and love the earth has and it makes me sad to see how selfish most of humanity is and how stupid that they rape the planet for their own needs and don't give a fuck about anyone. Good people are fewer and far between.

I'm really on a downer from disappointment with people lately, i even don't care if the NWO gets brought in, i'll save my ass and my loved ones and the rest can just starve to death in work camps for all i care now. Sad but true.

i know my origins, i know who i am as a human being and i also know what my purpose is in life. I'll do my best to fulfill that purpose and then i'll be out of here.

wow though what a world we would have if everyone would just wake up and find thir true potential as you said. People are too material now, too pathetic as well for that ever to happen. Most people just want to bring the rest of us down all the time. That's it.

Look ISIS, first I just wanna say I'm sorry and I feel for you about losing a close one. I've been through it myself and I know how much personal strength you will gain through it. You've actually helped just prove my point. See, this isn't a matrix, this isn't fake, it's real, it's as real as we're gonna get and if we keep focusing on what's gonna happen in the future then we're gonna miss the present and the NWO and all hell will just be swept into place. Real things happen to real people and it isn't like someone is just un-plugging from the matrix, real feelings and real emotions are involved!

I can see you're on the right path here and you're looking hard for the truth, but dis-information is keeping you in the prison. You have to learn how to see through the mist and use discerment to realize truth when it's before you. It's not easy to love everyone, I know, but if we don't love them, who will?? Does it make us any different from them if we don't love others even when they don't love us back? That's the right thing to do. We need to focus on the 'now' on this very 60 seconds we have, this very breath we draw and it's in this time that we can make a difference.

The truth is already out here, you just haven't recognized it yet. Actually, the truth is written in your very own DNA, truth is part of your soul and part of your being. Are you afraid to meet your soul? You can benifit vastly by sitting down and really getting to know yourself. You will not LIE to YOU! Trust yourself and trust your instincts. Turn off the cold play and put down the books and tv's, just talk with yourself, listen to yourself, understand yourself. We have no more evolving left to do, we're already created perfectly in the image of our creator. What we have to do is activate our full potential and that is the secret to true happiness, true peace and true TRUTH.

Don't let others get you down no matter what they say or do. Don't let them steal your joy, because that is the worst crime of all. Just be you and live for the moment you have, because what you do here really does matter!! Don't be fooled by others urging you to believe that this life doesn't matter and that the next will be better! Make this one the best because you really can! I'm not trying to preach to you or judge you or anything like that, I'm just trying to let you understand how I feel and through experience I know a lot of good things. You can achieve true 'infinite love' but you don't need a book to get it! You already have access to it and it's a free gift for the taking. You just have to accept it.

[james777]

i've had an intuition for a few years now that i could in the future regret not ending my life...

but i've realised...i'm not leaving untill i know what i've come here to do...

i remember being in bad situations before, and the mistake i made with some of them is that i didn't allow myself to stay fully aware...kind of ignoring what i was going through. that was a mistake.

so now i've realised it's a bonus to pay attention otherwise you could end up in the same situation in the future.

the key then, i suppose, is to expect the worst and make it the best...not vice versa.

Ya, I know what you mean, this intuition is fear, doubt and defeat. It's something we all have to fight through here on earth. See, there are too many distractions in this world for people to get a clear understanding of their purpose. We are here for each other! We all have our own special attributes, but ultimately we're here for each other. We should be lifting each other up and helping each other reach full potential. It's really sad to see how selfishness has brought so much negativity to this once great world. Everyone worried about what they need to do and how they need to live. It should be all of us asking how we can help each other prosper.

I can see that this whole NWO thing is really starting to take effect on us out here. This is when we need to be our strongest and show our synthesis as a race. The simple fact that you now believe to 'expect the worst and make it the best' really helps me understand the scale of awakening we need. I'm not singling you out, hell, I've been there myself, but having this thought pattern will bring it to fruition! You have to expect the best out of life if you want to get the best out of it. I think that you'll come to realize that what you think is the 'best' right now will change when you actually get the 'best'. We need to, as a whole, fix our attitudes, work on our positiveness. Don't let the bullshit keep you down. Look above it, rise above it, be above it. You're the only one that can change your world, ya know.

Anyways, I hope that I've helped create a more positive outlook for you and others!

[celtic isis]

Look ISIS, first I just wanna say I'm sorry and I feel for you about losing a close one. I've been through it myself and I know how much personal strength you will gain through it. You've actually helped just prove my point. See, this isn't a matrix, this isn't fake, it's real, it's as real as we're gonna get and if we keep focusing on what's gonna happen in the future then we're gonna miss the present and the NWO and all hell will just be swept into place. Real things happen to real people and it isn't like someone is just un-plugging from the matrix, real feelings and real emotions are involved!

I can see you're on the right path here and you're looking hard for the truth, but dis-information is keeping you in the prison. You have to learn how to see through the mist and use discerment to realize truth when it's before you. It's not easy to love everyone, I know, but if we don't love them, who will?? Does it make us any different from them if we don't love others even when they don't love us back? That's the right thing to do. We need to focus on the 'now' on this very 60 seconds we have, this very breath we draw and it's in this time that we can make a difference.

The truth is already out here, you just haven't recognized it yet. Actually, the truth is written in your very own DNA, truth is part of your soul and part of your being. Are you afraid to meet your soul? You can benifit vastly by sitting down and really getting to know yourself. You will not LIE to YOU! Trust yourself and trust your instincts. Turn off the cold play and put down the books and tv's, just talk with yourself, listen to yourself, understand yourself. We have no more evolving left to do, we're already created perfectly in the image of our creator. What we have to do is activate our full potential and that is the secret to true happiness, true peace and true TRUTH.

Don't let others get you down no matter what they say or do. Don't let them steal your joy, because that is the worst crime of all. Just be you and live for the moment you have, because what you do here really does matter!! Don't be fooled by others urging you to believe that this life doesn't matter and that the next will be better! Make this one the best because you really can! I'm not trying to preach to you or judge you or anything like that, I'm just trying to let you understand how I feel and through experience I know a lot of good things. You can achieve true 'infinite love' but you don't need a book to get it! You already have access to it and it's a free gift for the taking. You just have to accept it.

lol first off, i already know exactly who i am, and i love who i am and my soul.

i know the truth is already inside me and all the things that happen and have happened in the course of my life so far have even enriched my soul more, and i've learnt a hell of a lot from then.

I'm also very sorry for your loss too james, i know it's one of the worst thigns in life to go through.

i learnt a lot form your reply back to me, but i do kind of know that everything i need to know is already inside me, it's just continuing the 'awakening'.

This loving everybody crap though, it's impossible cause there are so many twats out there, and i don't mind, they can be twats if they want but when those twats actually seek out to harm me and bring me down, then it's a different matter altogether. It just doesn't work when it's one sided, this love everyone, 'we're all one' thing. cause most people couldn't give a shit about the next person.

and i know it's not in human nature to be like this, we are love, and we actually hate to see anyone get hurt, like if you watch gag shows, practical joke shows, you see people are so scared and concerned for strangers if there's something wrong, they all run to help the person and then they find out it's a gag or whatever and laugh...so humans really are love, but something has happened to change that for some people. i guess it's cause they are so far form the truth and who they are themselves and so unhappy trying to pursure happiness which is a state of being and they're trying to find it in a new car, new house new whatever...

It's sad.


But yeah i agree with you in what you said, this isn't a matrix, it's real. it's as icke said in one of his books that this is like a huge university, the university of life and we're all incarnated in physical bobies so our souls, the very esscence of who we are can learn, and learn quickly what we are supposed to learn and evolve.

ah it's all so simple and yet so complicated at the same time!

i actually do have true infinite love in my OH, we met in an incredible way and it was fate and he is my soulmate. I can't help being sensitive to the way people treat eachother cause it does get me down, just cause it's so pointless. i wouldn't hassle anyone so why should they take it upon themseves to do it to me? I know it's their problem, not mine so i have to learn to be less bothered and just pity them lol.

also, i don't expect the next life to be better than this one, as much as this life has been hell at times i'v enjoyed so much happiness too, that i really wouldn't care if my life did end cause i have known true love and true happiness and i have like breathed in all of the earth's beauty so many times...i have been blessed in so many ways.

[mada88]

james play this song while you are contemplating your question.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6jCIOvsZyM:D

[oceanwave]

I used to get wound up over things like this a couple of years ago. Now i have learned that you either spend your time worrying about this stuff, or to sit back, relax with a smoke and enjoy everything around you.

This kinda stuff is so mind boggling, you can never find an answer to it intellectually. So i say sod it! Dance to the music, and get stoned with other like minded people instead! A much better option in my opinion!

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5008/jointun9.gif

Auron http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/621/peaceyf8.gifNot that I don't thoroughly enjoy some nice green fluff in my blood, but still I can't let it rest.....I guess I'm just a truth-seeker, so a truth-seeker I'll be.....

...forever pushing the boundary...

;)

[gordonfreeman]

Hell, I am not doing well in school this year. I don't even get at least one straight B. Even though I do most of my homework and whatnot. Staying in this reality may be either fake or real. Read about the 'Matrix Control System!' at Montalk.net. Don't be ignorant! The dark negative forces made fake realities which is to make it very real and true. They love to manipulate us and brain-wash us using negative images. Because, shit happens in this world right now.

Life is harsh, we live in an hellhole which is called 'Earth.' Committing Suicide is not an option, it's for people who had a very negative life since their childhood or they are insane. Killing yourself is a Coward's way out! Because the negative aliens had been ruling this planet for centuries, since dawn of mankind. They genetically manipulated our human genes and made us more their kind just by 10-20%. I seen many alien hybrids living on the planet's soil. Mind-controlled signals are everywhere in populated cities. Which why "Matrix" is such a giant false reality, but it is called the '3rd Dimension.' That we are living on 3D world. Yes, but the Matrix is not really true, but this IS Reality!! Humans are creatures of habit, we enjoy something we are very used to.

[oceanwave]

as to the question...

..."Why stay then???"

..."why not?" is a blase, if i may, 'new age' answer

...for me, it's because,..

...it's where i *am*...not because *i* want to be or wish to be, that's irrelevant

...imo the 'matrix' is a metaphor detailing the outer 'world'

...to answer the, above, question from my pov,..

...i am here *because* of my inner being...

[james777]

as to the question...

..."Why stay then???"

..."why not?" is a blase, if i may, 'new age' answer

...for me, it's because,..

...it's where i *am*...not because *i* want to be or wish to be, that's irrelevant

...imo the 'matrix' is a metaphor detailing the outer 'world'

...to answer the, above, question from my pov,..

...i am here *because* of my inner being...

I see what you're saying. How are you here because of your inner being? Did you choose to be here before birth? Who is your inner being?

[oceanwave]

I see what you're saying. How are you here because of your inner being? Did you choose to be here before birth? Who is your inner being?

intent,..

...of course,..

...me...

[infinitely free]

death is bullshit.
Does anyone reflect on the end chapters of infinite love? about choice, knowing and purpose? and not identifiying with the computer program.

But then - how should we prove it?

We've got to prove that Death is just Illusion:cool:

[james777]

But then - how should we prove it?

We've got to prove that Death is just Illusion:cool:

It will be very hard to prove that death is an illusion because the only people who experience it aren't here to tell us about it. Maybe it's a form of graduation. Perhaps death is really life and we are just here in the 'incubator' until our time of death-birth comes.

I've often, from a child on up, have had thoughts of waking up from a dream. I believe that the creator is in communication with us always and we just have to find the right 'frequency' to tune in, much like the radio.

[infinitely free]

I've often, from a child on up, have had thoughts of waking up from a dream.

Aah, but this is a key point, here. It is our consciousness/subconsciousness that 'decides' whether our experience is 'just a dream/nightmare' or whether it's 'for real'.
This is what we've got to look into:

- Take control over Consciousness !
- Switch between realities (illusions) !
- 'Beat' 'death'!

[mada88]

Theres no death because there is no life.

[infinitely free]

Theres no death because there is no life.

You're not very explicative! :)

[mada88]

About people killing themselfs, An amazing movie to watch is what dreams may come.

[earthseed]

I understand Monroe's concepts, but I can't take his word for it. He has no tangible proof or evidence so as far as I'm concerned he's just speaking useless conjecture. I just don't understand how we have all these, so-called, experts, but in reality, no one can prove anything when it comes to things outside of our ability to comprehend. No man knows the truth, he just believes what he thinks is true, thus not meaning it is true.

Hmm okay. :D He did try to make his journeys as scientific as possible. Perhaps you should start astral traveling and see if he is right? If you do I can tell you from experience things are pretty close to how he saw them. But, if you don't ever do that than I guess you can just keep bitching which I'm sorry to say is all most beings here are interested in doing. It is how Stewart Swerdlow explained it this place is full up with victim consciousness.

[celtic isis]

It will be very hard to prove that death is an illusion because the only people who experience it aren't here to tell us about it. Maybe it's a form of graduation. Perhaps death is really life and we are just here in the 'incubator' until our time of death-birth comes.

I've often, from a child on up, have had thoughts of waking up from a dream. I believe that the creator is in communication with us always and we just have to find the right 'frequency' to tune in, much like the radio.

i actually agree with james on this one :) Really nice way to put it there james :) That's how i see it too. Death in the physical sense is so horrendous it's gotta be good after cause anyone who has watched someone die, they pretty much want to go, of course it's hell for them to leave us behind but i'm sure it's a wonderful place after. In any case it's all part of a cycle so life is eternal also. Our loved ones before us have merely 'slipped into the next room' or are on a different frequency now as they have left their physical incarnation behind. i can't see them cause i'm not tuned into the frequency, unlike mediums etc who can tune in. As icke said all this himself, and i liked it mr icke, you were on to something there!

As for people committing suicide, it's not always a "coward's way out", sometimes people do it just cause they can't live without the person they've lost. There is no point for them anymore so why go on.

Earth isn't such a shitty planet, it's beautiful, it's just a shame more people don't see it and respect it and respect eachother while they're at it lol. :rolleyes:

There's no way of proving that death is an illusion, cause it's very real, more so for the people left behind. I'm really not liking this matrix illusion business ...I've tried but it doesn't fit well with me, doesn't answer my questions.

We're not an illusion on this planet, i am real, i'm flesh and blood, ane also spirit i'm not a hologram lol. I am a spacesuit! :D I'm here to experience the physical with my physical body, when i die i will only be my 'spiritwhole' and i will move onto wherever the hell you go after you die lol :D

We're half material, half spiritual entity, our spirit is the essence of who we are and it never dies. This matrix stuff i really can't get my head around, sorry mr icke.

Getting back to the point of why stay then...i guess we all have a purpose here, we've been awakened for a reason, we're different human beings in the way we think, we're more feeling, mor sensitive to things, more so than others, we have a purpose and we stay to see what it is, follow it through. We're basically here to learn and when we've reached THE point of understanding, we go. :confused:

[celtic isis]

About people killing themselfs, An amazing movie to watch is what dreams may come.

must look out for that one mada :) Who's in it??? is it keanu reeves?

[infinitely free]

My point was, that 'people' should be able to come back to this reality

[adamadam]

You know Robert Monroe explained it very well in his series of books. We are addicted to this reality. We come back in over and over again for that M-band noise. There are games within games here! Being infinite or the projection of the infinite can be really boring.

Lot of truth in this. Though I wouldn't say being infinite is really boring (at that state of spiritual ability you'd feel way better than you've ever felt as a body), so much as lacking in a game. But there are plenty of games better than being a body on earth. The reason we reincarnate here at this stage is almost always because we've been controlled/conditioned/implanted to do so.

[cleopatraxxx]

...It's really sad to see how selfishness has brought so much negativity to this once great world. Everyone worried about what they need to do and how they need to live. It should be all of us asking how we can help each other prosper.

I can see that this whole NWO thing is really starting to take effect on us out here. This is when we need to be our strongest and show our synthesis as a race. The simple fact that you now believe to 'expect the worst and make it the best' really helps me understand the scale of awakening we need. I'm not singling you out, hell, I've been there myself, but having this thought pattern will bring it to fruition! You have to expect the best out of life if you want to get the best out of it. I think that you'll come to realize that what you think is the 'best' right now will change when you actually get the 'best'. We need to, as a whole, fix our attitudes, work on our positiveness. Don't let the bullshit keep you down. Look above it, rise above it, be above it. You're the only one that can change your world, ya know.

Anyways, I hope that I've helped create a more positive outlook for you and others!

Hello :)

everytime someone talks about being positive, i do want so much to believe that by doing so, thinking postive, positive things happen; but this ALWAYS reminds me those thousands of people on Earth, in almost every country, those thousands who marched against the beguining of the war in Iraq initiated by the US and GB.
So tell me please, were all those marching people being negative in thought? if them all were believing that their march would not bring a change of mind of the politicians involved, than i agree that what we think is what happens. But all those who marched HAD HOPE, WISHED LOTS that no war would be initiated aganst IRAQ... what happened???? the war started no matter how many marched!!! even if every single human marched, they wouoldnt take into account. why¿ if we the people are the ones who feed any government, why then we aren't listend to???? all those thousands who marched are no body??? or they were all negative in thought perhaps?

i am not saying u are wrong in asking people to think positive.
i'd love to think more positively myself.
It just looks like no matter what millions think, only a few idiots rule this planet and make as they please.

otherwise, being positive in thought and wishing good to a total stranger who happens to be your neighbour is very good and brings positiveness into bhht your life and his/hers, by the simple fact u did so in the 1st place:) in that i believe and then when walking down the road u help some abandoned pet (because you can and care), then again u are showing respect for the being in pain and by rescuing it already made a better day once more...and so on.

i try very much not letting bullshit bring me down, but sometimes it is not in our power to change a few outcomes which others force us to accept by simply changing things the way they want...
otherwise, yes, i don't get into fisical fight if someone calls me a bad name, i simply choose not to accpet the glove of war... stopping the game right there.

CLeoXXX

[infinitetruth]

Why not look at things a little differently?

My perspective is that I am here, and my life is very 'real' to me. However, if I look through a microscope - is that image real, or not real? The shape and colour of a table for instance:

The shape of my table is rectangular, and the colour is brown. But from certain angles the colour is white from the light reflected off it. Which colour is real? From a different perspective the shape of the table changes, which shape is real?

My point is that things are real only in that instant of space and time. We percieve this world through our brain. Our brain tells us what we are seeing and feeling. Just as the microscope give us one view of a world, which is remarkably different from what we are used to, Our brains also give us one view of the world - it is not the be all and end all and we cannot comprehend beyond the limitations of our brain. We cannot really make any assumptions about the world, only how our brains work.

There is no question that the world feels very real to us as we experience it. But we cannot deny that there are infinite perspectives of 'real' - and our perspective is not the 'true' one, as there are no 'true' perspectives only different perspectives. The matrix is not denying the reality of our existance, but making it very clear that we are viewing a world through a third party our brain, and that this is one tiny perspective in the universe - a perspective which we take to be the only true perspective when it is very apparent that it is not.

[infinitetruth]

Hello :)

everytime someone talks about being positive, i do want so much to believe that by doing so, thinking postive, positive things happen; but this ALWAYS reminds me those thousands of people on Earth, in almost every country, those thousands who marched against the beguining of the war in Iraq initiated by the US and GB.
So tell me please, were all those marching people being negative in thought? if them all were believing that their march would not bring a change of mind of the politicians involved, than i agree that what we think is what happens. But all those who marched HAD HOPE, WISHED LOTS that no war would be initiated aganst IRAQ... what happened???? the war started no matter how many marched!!! even if every single human marched, they wouoldnt take into account. why¿ if we the people are the ones who feed any government, why then we aren't listend to???? all those thousands who marched are no body??? or they were all negative in thought perhaps?

i am not saying u are wrong in asking people to think positive.
i'd love to think more positively myself.
It just looks like no matter what millions think, only a few idiots rule this planet and make as they please.

otherwise, being positive in thought and wishing good to a total stranger who happens to be your neighbour is very good and brings positiveness into bhht your life and his/hers, by the simple fact u did so in the 1st place:) in that i believe and then when walking down the road u help some abandoned pet (because you can and care), then again u are showing respect for the being in pain and by rescuing it already made a better day once more...and so on.

i try very much not letting bullshit bring me down, but sometimes it is not in our power to change a few outcomes which others force us to accept by simply changing things the way they want...
otherwise, yes, i don't get into fisical fight if someone calls me a bad name, i simply choose not to accpet the glove of war... stopping the game right there.

CLeoXXX

If every human marched there would be no war - thats the point Cleo. Its not about positive thinking, its about being free from control to act as you choose. Who fought the war? Those men, they could have said no. Every single one of them had a choice to say no. Why didn't they? Because they are controlled by the military system, a system which says obey orders - never question. And they don't question. Why? Religion is a form of control, you obey (through fear) you don't question. School is a form of control, you obey - you can question but how many times has your teacher scolded you for not understanding their answer - again a means of control getting you into line through fear.

Letting go of fear, doing as you feel is right no matter what the consequences is what we should be aiming to do. If everyone said no to war, no political power could do anything.

[cleopatraxxx]

If every human marched there would be no war - thats the point Cleo. Its not about positive thinking, its about being free from control to act as you choose. Who fought the war? Those men, they could have said no. Every single one of them had a choice to say no. Why didn't they? Because they are controlled by the military system, a system which says obey orders - never question. And they don't question. Why? Religion is a form of control, you obey (through fear) you don't question. School is a form of control, you obey - you can question but how many times has your teacher scolded you for not understanding their answer - again a means of control getting you into line through fear.

Letting go of fear, doing as you feel is right no matter what the consequences is what we should be aiming to do. If everyone said no to war, no political power could do anything.

we think exactly the same regarding the military system's powerfull control over fearfull soldiers and officers....

nothing else to add

CLeoXXX

[adamadam]

Hello :)

i try very much not letting bullshit bring me down, but sometimes it is not in our power to change a few outcomes which others force us to accept by simply changing things the way they want...
otherwise, yes, i don't get into fisical fight if someone calls me a bad name, i simply choose not to accpet the glove of war... stopping the game right there.

CLeoXXX

Cleo,

War is insane. People who want war for whatever reason are insane in that regard.

The problem is basically a problem of the mind. All things are trying to survive. The mind consists of two parts - the reactive mind and the analytical mind. The reactive mind is useful for simple animals like fish - it makes them react in a stimulus response way to perceived danger. But the reactive mind is much more of a hindrance than a help to us, who have highly developed analytical minds. Any time there is something in our environment that approximates the (relatively inaccessable) memories in our reactive mind we act in a stimulus response way. But we rarely realise we are doing this and always justify our actions with our analytical mind.

[chandrakavi]

Cleo,

War is insane. People who want war for whatever reason are insane in that regard.

The problem is basically a problem of the mind. All things are trying to survive. The mind consists of two parts - the reactive mind and the analytical mind. The reactive mind is useful for simple animals like fish - it makes them react in a stimulus response way to perceived danger. But the reactive mind is much more of a hindrance than a help to us, who have highly developed analytical minds. Any time there is something in our environment that approximates the (relatively inaccessable) memories in our reactive mind we act in a stimulus response way. But we rarely realise we are doing this and always justify our actions with our analytical mind.

Great post, ought to do it more. Look up my thread on CONDITIONING.
This is the topic.

[chandrakavi]

Something has been troubling me for quite some time, ever since I read my first Icke book. It's this whole, 'We live in the matrix' thing. I mean I'm not opposed to the idea and I've always kept an open mind when dealing with new information, so I questioned, reasoned, debated and finally decided that this whole 'matrix' thing is just as fake as the movie. I just have to be honest and then ask you an honest question. If I truly believed (which I do NOT) that we live in a controlled 'matrix' of a world, I would have killed myself long ago. My question to you (if you believe in this 'matrix' reality) is, "Why stay then? Why not just kill yourself and end this senseless, useless and meaningless life? Or is it because you know that there's more to it? More meaning, more use, more sense?

I don't know, I just use my logic when reasoning and I just have to release what doesn't make sense and living in this 'matrix' world just doesn't make any. Each one of our lives are valuable, precious and meaningful so finding our purpose and our place in this world is only half the battle, knowing ourselves, our nature and our true origins is the other half and combined we realize our limitless potential and our absolute merit.

The Matrix is the trap of the logical mind.
Why stay then? Because NONE OF US IS THE LOGICAL MIND,
Human beings are totally Illogical, all of them. You think not?
Let's take this example: During the day you are totally logic, reasonable,
down to earth, practical, then the day is over and you are tired
and go to have a good sleep. Then you begin to dream,
you dream that you see a beautiful tree, then that tree becomes a child, and you , in your dreams find that normal, then that child becomes a horse
in your dream that seems normal, you don't ask the "to be or not to be" kind of questions, in dreams everything is normal. When you wake up, you find that dream through symbolism had some kind of meaning, you don't find it "irrational". Living in the MATRIX means living in a logic made up world, where intuitione is not taken into account.

The dreams we have , EVERY DAY, connects with our self, , with problems our unconcious mind has been working for, sometimes for years. Sometimes through symbols, in dreams, we get SOLUTIONS to these problems, if we can analyze this well. CCJ. JUNG analyzed this even better than Freud, if you haven't done so, read MAN AND HIS SYMBOLS by C.J. JUNG. THIS IS THE right side of the mind, through Intuition, the left side of the brain has to do with reasoning.


In your question you have the answer, every night when we dream, WE KNOW THERE IS MORE TO THIS THING, as you say. Every night we have at least 10 dreams, and we only remember the one in the morning, AND ALL DREAMS HAVE A MEANING.

Psychology was used 5.000 years before in countries like India, before it was discovered in the West. Elders would ask their children to tell them their dreams, they knew how important they were, but the child thought these symbols were just fantasy, nothing real, so the elders knew exactly what was hapening to the child through the symbolic desires he had.

Human beings , all of us are not only thinking, more I would say of feeling,
and the MATRIX has nothing to do with feelings, but has a lot to do with symbols(which are feelings in disguisee, worlds in disguise, reality masked so we don't get it.)

People have been killing themselves for centuries, but in a different way.
The way they live not looking into their inner lives, as if they were only a body with no soul, as if they were only meaningless, as if they were automatic, robotic, doing things accordint to law and orders, following other's orders. Freud and Jung spoke of the mind's DEATH WISH everyone has, but luckly few achieve. That death wish has always existed because the mind KNOWS it is a false center, only memory, and has nothing to do with the inner. Nevertheless we need both, and we need both, we must live in ONENESS, without division between one and the other, we are taught that by Msters of medition of the East. That way the struggle between outer and inner cease. Meditation means REMEMBERING WHO YOU ARE.
That way your unconcious mind becomes fully concious.
Suicide is the stupidiest act.That's were your mind can mislead you to. It is killing your body, and your body has done EVEERYTHING for you to carry you in this lifetime. You DON'T have to destroy your body, the body has done nothing to you,it's beautiful it's like a temple ,and it helps you to celebrate life. YOU HAVE TO DESTROY YOUR EGO. Why should YOU die?. Don't wait for someone else to destroy your ego for you, destroy your ego yourself. We have to learn patience, and we will have achieved total inner freedom.

You don't believe in a matrix controlled world, that is like saying Politicians and wars , and corruption don't exist ,it comes out on TV, on the news, they are called G-8, the most developed countries of the world, it's also called GLOBALIZATION(supposed to be a good thing---but for them in more senses than one)

At any rate, continue to create you positive reality, it is really up to you, not them. These guys,the politicians are suppose to "SERVE THE PEOPLE",
have they EVER done that? I understand you, you can live thinking you are lucky, and that everything is ok, which is nicer, but false.THE BLUE PILL.
The red pill, the truth, is bitter, "bitter at the beginning but sweet at the end", like the truth always is, better than closing our eyes.

But you are absolutly right "knowing how to be in the world but not of it"
and finding our inner life, seeing our limitless potential, which is what we are all about as you have said.´ Transformation will help us, and this world more than anything else, after all life is gift we have to celebrate,
we can be creative, make life a Song and a Dance, it is always up to us to be in paradise, and smile in front of adversity.After all laughter
moves 33.000 of our muscles. let's be healthy and happy with ourselves.


INFINITE LOVE

[adamadam]

Great post, ought to do it more. Look up my thread on CONDITIONING.
This is the topic.

I did - it was a good post. Conditioning works by basically "restimulating" the reactive mind. The only way to be sure you can't be conditioned is to get rid of your reactive mind.

[chandrakavi]

I did - it was a good post. Conditioning works by basically "restimulating" the reactive mind. The only way to be sure you can't be conditioned is to get rid of your reactive mind.


ABSOLUTELY!

[adamadam]

:D

[james777]

Why not look at things a little differently?

My perspective is that I am here, and my life is very 'real' to me. However, if I look through a microscope - is that image real, or not real? The shape and colour of a table for instance:

The shape of my table is rectangular, and the colour is brown. But from certain angles the colour is white from the light reflected off it. Which colour is real? From a different perspective the shape of the table changes, which shape is real?

My point is that things are real only in that instant of space and time. We percieve this world through our brain. Our brain tells us what we are seeing and feeling. Just as the microscope give us one view of a world, which is remarkably different from what we are used to, Our brains also give us one view of the world - it is not the be all and end all and we cannot comprehend beyond the limitations of our brain. We cannot really make any assumptions about the world, only how our brains work.

There is no question that the world feels very real to us as we experience it. But we cannot deny that there are infinite perspectives of 'real' - and our perspective is not the 'true' one, as there are no 'true' perspectives only different perspectives. The matrix is not denying the reality of our existance, but making it very clear that we are viewing a world through a third party our brain, and that this is one tiny perspective in the universe - a perspective which we take to be the only true perspective when it is very apparent that it is not.

Very Intriguing........

The Matrix is the trap of the logical mind.
Why stay then? Because NONE OF US IS THE LOGICAL MIND,
Human beings are totally Illogical, all of them. You think not?
Let's take this example: During the day you are totally logic, reasonable,
down to earth, practical, then the day is over and you are tired
and go to have a good sleep. Then you begin to dream,
you dream that you see a beautiful tree, then that tree becomes a child, and you , in your dreams find that normal, then that child becomes a horse
in your dream that seems normal, you don't ask the "to be or not to be" kind of questions, in dreams everything is normal. When you wake up, you find that dream through symbolism had some kind of meaning, you don't find it "irrational". Living in the MATRIX means living in a logic made up world, where intuitione is not taken into account.

The dreams we have , EVERY DAY, connects with our self, , with problems our unconcious mind has been working for, sometimes for years. Sometimes through symbols, in dreams, we get SOLUTIONS to these problems, if we can analyze this well. CCJ. JUNG analyzed this even better than Freud, if you haven't done so, read MAN AND HIS SYMBOLS by C.J. JUNG. THIS IS THE right side of the mind, through Intuition, the left side of the brain has to do with reasoning.


In your question you have the answer, every night when we dream, WE KNOW THERE IS MORE TO THIS THING, as you say. Every night we have at least 10 dreams, and we only remember the one in the morning, AND ALL DREAMS HAVE A MEANING.

Psychology was used 5.000 years before in countries like India, before it was discovered in the West. Elders would ask their children to tell them their dreams, they knew how important they were, but the child thought these symbols were just fantasy, nothing real, so the elders knew exactly what was hapening to the child through the symbolic desires he had.

Human beings , all of us are not only thinking, more I would say of feeling,
and the MATRIX has nothing to do with feelings, but has a lot to do with symbols(which are feelings in disguisee, worlds in disguise, reality masked so we don't get it.)

People have been killing themselves for centuries, but in a different way.
The way they live not looking into their inner lives, as if they were only a body with no soul, as if they were only meaningless, as if they were automatic, robotic, doing things accordint to law and orders, following other's orders. Freud and Jung spoke of the mind's DEATH WISH everyone has, but luckly few achieve. That death wish has always existed because the mind KNOWS it is a false center, only memory, and has nothing to do with the inner. Nevertheless we need both, and we need both, we must live in ONENESS, without division between one and the other, we are taught that by Msters of medition of the East. That way the struggle between outer and inner cease. Meditation means REMEMBERING WHO YOU ARE.
That way your unconcious mind becomes fully concious.
Suicide is the stupidiest act.That's were your mind can mislead you to. It is killing your body, and your body has done EVEERYTHING for you to carry you in this lifetime. You DON'T have to destroy your body, the body has done nothing to you,it's beautiful it's like a temple ,and it helps you to celebrate life. YOU HAVE TO DESTROY YOUR EGO. Why should YOU die?. Don't wait for someone else to destroy your ego for you, destroy your ego yourself. We have to learn patience, and we will have achieved total inner freedom.

You don't believe in a matrix controlled world, that is like saying Politicians and wars , and corruption don't exist ,it comes out on TV, on the news, they are called G-8, the most developed countries of the world, it's also called GLOBALIZATION(supposed to be a good thing---but for them in more senses than one)

At any rate, continue to create you positive reality, it is really up to you, not them. These guys,the politicians are suppose to "SERVE THE PEOPLE",
have they EVER done that? I understand you, you can live thinking you are lucky, and that everything is ok, which is nicer, but false.THE BLUE PILL.
The red pill, the truth, is bitter, "bitter at the beginning but sweet at the end", like the truth always is, better than closing our eyes.

But you are absolutly right "knowing how to be in the world but not of it"
and finding our inner life, seeing our limitless potential, which is what we are all about as you have said.´ Transformation will help us, and this world more than anything else, after all life is gift we have to celebrate,
we can be creative, make life a Song and a Dance, it is always up to us to be in paradise, and smile in front of adversity.After all laughter
moves 33.000 of our muscles. let's be healthy and happy with ourselves.


INFINITE LOVE

Wow, this is a beautiful post. You have graciously identified so many important things here........AWESOME!!! Thank you....

[auron]

Ever thought about writing a book on all this Chandrakavi? :)

[adamadam]

The only way of overcoming the agents of the matrix is through organisation and a systematic clearing of the reactive mind. Only then can we have people who can't be accused of being sheeple.

[lydia78]

[QUOTE=chandrakavi;86027]

Psychology was used 5.000 years before in countries like India, before it was discovered in the West. Elders would ask their children to tell them their dreams, they knew how important they were, but the child thought these symbols were just fantasy, nothing real, so the elders knew exactly what was hapening to the child through the symbolic desires he had.

Human beings , all of us are not only thinking, more I would say of feeling,
and the MATRIX has nothing to do with feelings, but has a lot to do with symbols(which are feelings in disguisee, worlds in disguise, reality masked so we don't get it.)

People have been killing themselves for centuries, but in a different way.
The way they live not looking into their inner lives, as if they were only a body with no soul, as if they were only meaningless, as if they were automatic, robotic, doing things accordint to law and orders, following other's orders. Freud and Jung spoke of the mind's DEATH WISH everyone has, but luckly few achieve. That death wish has always existed because the mind KNOWS it is a false center, only memory, and has nothing to do with the inner. Nevertheless we need both, and we need both, we must live in ONENESS, without division between one and the other, we are taught that by Msters of medition of the East. That way the struggle between outer and inner cease. Meditation means REMEMBERING WHO YOU ARE.
That way your unconcious mind becomes fully concious.
Suicide is the stupidiest act.That's were your mind can mislead you to. It is killing your body, and your body has done EVEERYTHING for you to carry you in this lifetime. You DON'T have to destroy your body, the body has done nothing to you,it's beautiful it's like a temple ,and it helps you to celebrate life. YOU HAVE TO DESTROY YOUR EGO. Why should YOU die?. Don't wait for someone else to destroy your ego for you, destroy your ego yourself. We have to learn patience, and we will have achieved total inner freedom.



Hi there chandrakavi,

Great post, I agree with the many points you have made, except one....yes theres always one, might even stretch it to two!

The Ego, as you know from freudian/jungian reference is the mediator between the super ego also called the moral self, higher self, it's the angel depicted as sitting on your shoulder whispering in your ear and is polar opposite in nature compared to its counterpart the shadow or animalistic self, lower self or devil depicted on the other shoulder whspering in your other ear. The ego is merely the projector between these two mental energies, and projects outwardly into 'reality' the desires based on the urges of either superego or shadow self. Now as far as the term, divide and conquer goes, you need look no further then our three counterparts of the mind, further more, killing off the ego is not the answer, instead as you suggested by turning inward, in mediation to align and heal, rebalance and discipline the ego and this should be encouraged. To embrace and forgive aspects of our shadow self brings self healing, to banish it only destroys the human soul because nothing is truely resolved, you are essentially rejecting yourself, the ego is not the enemy here.

as far as the nature of reality goes Einstein really says it all..."Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."

And also bear in mind..."Imagination is more important than knowledge."



KNOW THYSELF

[chandrakavi]

[QUOTE=chandrakavi;86027]

Psychology was used 5.000 years before in countries like India, before it was discovered in the West. Elders would ask their children to tell them their dreams, they knew how important they were, but the child thought these symbols were just fantasy, nothing real, so the elders knew exactly what was hapening to the child through the symbolic desires he had.

Human beings , all of us are not only thinking, more I would say of feeling,
and the MATRIX has nothing to do with feelings, but has a lot to do with symbols(which are feelings in disguisee, worlds in disguise, reality masked so we don't get it.)

People have been killing themselves for centuries, but in a different way.
The way they live not looking into their inner lives, as if they were only a body with no soul, as if they were only meaningless, as if they were automatic, robotic, doing things accordint to law and orders, following other's orders. Freud and Jung spoke of the mind's DEATH WISH everyone has, but luckly few achieve. That death wish has always existed because the mind KNOWS it is a false center, only memory, and has nothing to do with the inner. Nevertheless we need both, and we need both, we must live in ONENESS, without division between one and the other, we are taught that by Msters of medition of the East. That way the struggle between outer and inner cease. Meditation means REMEMBERING WHO YOU ARE.
That way your unconcious mind becomes fully concious.
Suicide is the stupidiest act.That's were your mind can mislead you to. It is killing your body, and your body has done EVEERYTHING for you to carry you in this lifetime. You DON'T have to destroy your body, the body has done nothing to you,it's beautiful it's like a temple ,and it helps you to celebrate life. YOU HAVE TO DESTROY YOUR EGO. Why should YOU die?. Don't wait for someone else to destroy your ego for you, destroy your ego yourself. We have to learn patience, and we will have achieved total inner freedom.



Hi there chandrakavi,

Great post, I agree with the many points you have made, except one....yes theres always one, might even stretch it to two!

The Ego, as you know from freudian/jungian reference is the mediator between the super ego also called the moral self, higher self, it's the angel depicted as sitting on your shoulder whispering in your ear and is polar opposite in nature compared to its counterpart the shadow or animalistic self, lower self or devil depicted on the other shoulder whspering in your other ear. The ego is merely the projector between these two mental energies, and projects outwardly into 'reality' the desires based on the urges of either superego or shadow self. Now as far as the term, divide and conquer goes, you need look no further then our three counterparts of the mind, further more, killing off the ego is not the answer, instead as you suggested by turning inward, in mediation to align and heal, rebalance and discipline the ego and this should be encouraged. To embrace and forgive aspects of our shadow self brings self healing, to banish it only destroys the human soul because nothing is truely resolved, you are essentially rejecting yourself, the ego is not the enemy here.

as far as the nature of reality goes Einstein really says it all..."Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."

And also bear in mind..."Imagination is more important than knowledge."



KNOW THYSELF

Hi there Lydia 78!
I wasn't referring SPECIFICALLY to the way Freud and Jung see the Ego Super-ego etc. Simply, the fact that people should not be mislead by
the ego to commiting suicide , very specifically, destroying their body. The ego is the mind,
LOGIC. One's true master has to be the Heart. Logic, the ego, the mind,
has to be USED , but never alloow it to be your master telling you what to do, which is the heartless world we all live in.

we can not be only LOGIC,logic is the world of DIVISION, we cannot be only Heart, although.

But "divide and conquer" is the savage world we have been living in,
it has led to more than 5000 wars, it looks as if , someone reads our history, there was no time for anything else but war and destruction. What is History if nothing but wars? A product of the mind, our egoes? In order to have a utilitarian society work it has to be done with ego, but the heart cannot be used. It is not something of the inner against the outer, no, it is not so,
your inner being, self, has to be projected in the outer world, once that happens , we would really "change " the world.

Rejecting the ego is not rejecting yourself. We all have our nice little ego,
but the ego is a false center, it is utilitarian. When you are in love you are not of the mind,of the ego, it is of the heart, nevertheless we don't reject the mind, or ego, we accept ALL, it is our reality, but not our only reality, not a mind-dictatorship. It is ALL part of the WHOLE, of ONENESS. And living in acceptance we automatically drop the ego.

If you give a talk, write a book, do some mathematics work. Well then the mind it is fine, part of your ego,it is LOGIC that is for your intellectual work, but to continue using it, later after that, is like continue moving your feet when you are not walking and sitting down, What for?

KNOW THYSELF! Exactly you are absolutly right!, know your SELF, not your ego. In this world no one has had to be taught how to hate, everyone knows that, but everyone has to be taught the way of the heart, of the self,
everyone knows the primitive part, we are born with it. If it helps everyone for survival good, but we all want to be more than that. One is NOT the ego,
no matter how much we use it.

The difference between the Western world and the Eastern World, is that in the Western world we have been taught that our society is BASED on the ego, in the East it is based on the self.

The West has the material success,(void of Spiritual success) the East the spiritual success,(void of Material success) we should accept neither against the other, we should UNITE both, that way we would be succesful in both aspects Material and Spiritual, it has always
been up to us to do so. But we have lived in a divided world ,it is slowly joining one with the other ,once that happens man will stop being a cousin of the apes.

LOGIC for illogical beings in this society was made by those who needed to make the laws, or else everything would fall apart in the utilitarian society, and that has to work ,it is like a robot, but we have to go beyond that,beyond thed robot there are some things that can work in a robotic way,your ego, you car, your watch, a CD, and many others, but you can't place that into the hands so they handle your SELF,or your HEART.

The Illuminati are completly driven by ego, NOT BY LOVE,
and what will the results be?
They are void of love, they lacked that since their childhood,
They love power, love money, but if they loved others the same way
they are happy when they see money, this would be a quite different world,
I am all for money, good business, but not in this selfish uncreative way
they are. I am all for creativity.

Einstein is right: "Imagination is more important than knowledge"
Because IMAGINATION is creative ,all inventions have started as a dream,
an imagination, until after many years or centuries they REALLY become a REALITY. Knowledge is not what counts ,because knowlege after all is memorizing things you were taught in school(some kind of brainwash)
what counts is WISDOM, knowing how to read between the lines, and imagination can help you get started in that long journey of reality of creativity.
Until we all get there. And fight with your ego in between, your shadow as you well put it, until you realize individually how much it weights and decide to drop it. And many others will still be carrying it,
because people need to live this process all the way, and at a certain time in life decide to keep it, or drop it, which is a personal choice. Definetly not society's, society is ALL FOR THE EGO, it gives it fuel,
and keeps it alive.It is one of the many ways we have all been, and continue to BE CONTROLLED.

INFINITE LOVE TO YOU

[kblood]

I agree. As I see it one of the hardest things to keep doing is knowing humility. It seems impossible for people in positions of great power, but still something I hope they wont loose touch with.

If your ego gets too "bloated" and your self-centeredness gets too high, you will loose contact with most of reality as I see it. In my experience so far, that is how it is anyway. Cause and effect, all our emotions are connected as well. To get some state of mind and the confidence to do something and bring it into life, you will need to keep your ego in control. Something I find very difficult, and I hate loosing control. Yea, im a bit of a control freak :p in some ways. Self awareness is very important to reach higher awareness, as I see it.

[lydia78]

Hi chandrakavi




Thankyou for a wonderful reply, yes I get what you mean now....so hard to interpret properly what is actually said on this forum at times...misunderstandings what have you...apologies to you!!:)

You are of course super-right on this quote

"The Illuminati are completly driven by ego, NOT BY LOVE,
and what will the results be?
They are void of love, they lacked that since their childhood,
They love power, love money, but if they loved others the same way
they are happy when they see money, this would be a quite different world,
I am all for money, good business, but not in this selfish uncreative way
they are. I am all for creativity."

Lived with my step-father, a grand mason of the suffolk county, (he's been a member for over 45 yrs, and you are correct, they are bottomless pits, he was if I may say a minature one-man band NWO in himself....so many, many stories about him.....and their 'void' really does stretch right back into childhood, so sad.



INFINITE LOVE TO YOU......right back atcha!!:D

[chandrakavi]

Hi Lydia 78!:)

Thank you for your beautiful post!:D:D:D

Infinite love to you always:)

[kblood]

Some very nice posts about the Masons :) Thanks for that. I didnt see their greed as something that would make them bad persons. I have passed on getting money for nothing a few times, simply because I wouldnt know what to do with my life if I had too much money. Well, also because I didnt see me as deserving them. Like healing someone, I dont always see healing someone as a good deed. Depends on how it is done I guess, why and to whom. One of my worse deeds I think, was to not let a woman die, to grant her husband the wish of having her with him. So I prolonged her life with two years with my healing. What troubles me is she told me she was ready to die. Those last two years wasnt good years I have read :( I hope she did make some good of them. Her physical health was supposed to be well enough. Since the healing occured, I guess she might have accepted the healing.

For reasons like this I dont see why I should get payed for healing somone. As I see it the person I heal do 50% of the healing.

[lydia78]

Hi

With regards to healing and payment I totally agree on it being a 'free service'....unlike so many I have met during my travels who crow about being a healer and yet have so much healing to do on themselves...

As a tarot reader and medium, I have never charged money to help someone out, it never 'sat' right with me, though I understand some people make it their full time job and earn off it, personally I couldn't do it.

As for the masons..the solider ants are incredibly greedy, my old man and his friends were positvily frenzied when it came to power and money.....another interesting thing was during 'Ladies night', wherein masons bring along their wives, my mum couldn't believe it when virtually every single mason wife seemed to have ME,MS,Cancer,terminal illnesses etc.....she also got to look around the grand lodge and saw the goddess symbolism everywhere, noticable Hecate (the triple headed goddess, or crone who is also the symbol of the three phases of womanhood,virgin, empress and crone which is also associated with the phases of the moon.) All male society who are notorous for not allowing women into their 'club' worship goddess energy!?! mmmmmm, wonder if their using the negative femimine energy for their deeds (sucubus, lilth) hence maybe why their wives where so ill? any ideas anyone?

[kblood]

All male society who are notorous for not allowing women into their 'club' worship goddess energy!?! mmmmmm, wonder if their using the negative femimine energy for their deeds (sucubus, lilth) hence maybe why their wives where so ill? any ideas anyone?

Thanks for that :) My mother once consulted a medium, and I got very frustrated with this medium. She was very busy keeping up with all the consulting and her personal life. It has helped my mother and me I of course, but it seemed to be a great strain on her.

She didnt like my discussion with her about black and white not equalling good and evil :p So she got rather frustrated with me as well.

I also accused her of misusing her gifts by making it a living. I have family members that might earn money by healing though. I cant say that it is all wrong, I just dont like to tax my soul that much. When money gets involved, I expect them to expect some kind of good quality of the product :rolleyes:

Imagine what kind of lawsuits that might come from this :D Hehe. Lawsuits are kind of funny. Especially those US ones. I think Wierd Al made a fun song about it. I hope I wont ever have to sue anyone myself. Sure would have to be serious for me to spend more than 3 hours on something like that.

[kblood]

Forgot to answer the post... woops :p

Any relationship is a balance between the two persons. We probably wont ever fit each other like yin and yang.

Lilith (the name I first got on her), might be an actual being. I think Anne Rice had her spirit in her. Only a guess though, since the spirit made her so powerfull, but also caused blackouts. Also she might have given birth to "grotesque" beings. I am a fan of Anne Rice, so it saddens me that she wont be writing anymore books about vampires and witches. She seemed to have become dependant on this other being, and therefore I have tried to sever their bond.

[lydia78]

Anne Rice? I don't think I've read anything on her here, but I did start out when I was a kid (I'm capricorn, so kid is fitting I guess :D) with betty shine and doris stoke, betty is amazing, and her daughter is now continuing her work.....will check out anne (although it sounds like she's had a blavatski moment!!):D

[eternal_spirit]

If a healer had no other source of income, do you think it would be right to charge money? They may find it difficult to fit into a so called normal job, because of the expectations of an unatural society we live in. They could of spent many years learning how to heal and missed out on a career, or were not able to fit in with the norm.
I know someone who fits this description, she has a degree in complimentary therapy. Hope this makes sense I'm having difficulty focusing at the moment.

[eternal_spirit]

I'd book here for a reiki session but I'm too poor to pay, she's done it on me for free before.

I guess the answer to my previous post would be yes, those who can afford to pay could pay for healing. You'd pay any other sort of Doctor, so why not. I guess only people with a comfortable life style would refuse money. Someone who is struggling to survive would charge money, if they had no other income.

[lydia78]

Hi there

I understand what you're saying, and I have no problem with others being paid for a service if that is the only work they have.....money is just energy and healing is a fair exchange, my only beef is when healers and psychics charge ridiculous amounts of money. People can get addicted to this kind of work, people with serious problems tend to fixate on the psychic solutions and waste vast amounts of money, instead of learning to take reponsibilty for themselves or listening to their own intuition.

Now, the product of the new age, reiki.....my philosophy towards this is unfavourable I'm afraid but this is only my opinion and will not think less of anyone who is into it, indeed I have a couple of friends who swear by it, but I believe that if your are a healer you do not need to learn anything, because you are already doing it, healing is not something you do but is something you are.....

I have met too many "look at me, I'm a healer" types, the messiah-ism that accompanies this crude mentality whom have not a single healing, empathic, loving fibre in their body.

If you are a healer or family members are, then do some self healing, cystals, salt baths, walk in nature, these can all help massively with imbalance or anxiety, I wish you well...

A true heart harms noone, if you work from that then you walk a great path.

[eternal_spirit]

Thanks for the reply Lydia. :) I'm off to do some self healing now!

[csm_]

Death is no cure for ignorance

[adamadam]

Death is no cure for ignorance

Very true! We need to find the path out of here whilst we're still in a body as death itself contains very little enlightenment.

[lydia78]

Hi eternal :-) hope you had a lovely time!!

As far as death goes I'd say it's as important as life, the experince is enlightenment itself, at the moment of death you are released of the physical vechicle, reunited with those you love.......How can it not be enlightning?

[cyberdaemon]

Death is no cure for ignorance

I would say life is like playing deathmatch in computer games.The fact that you get killed doesnt mean you get disconnected from that game.You just respawn and keep fighting dying , killing , dying and so on...

Thanks for the reply Lydia. :) I'm off to do some self healing now!
good luck :D

[tinmenace]

Hi

With regards to healing and payment I totally agree on it being a 'free service'....unlike so many I have met during my travels who crow about being a healer and yet have so much healing to do on themselves...

As a tarot reader and medium, I have never charged money to help someone out, it never 'sat' right with me, though I understand some people make it their full time job and earn off it, personally I couldn't do it.

As for the masons..the solider ants are incredibly greedy, my old man and his friends were positvily frenzied when it came to power and money.....another interesting thing was during 'Ladies night', wherein masons bring along their wives, my mum couldn't believe it when virtually every single mason wife seemed to have ME,MS,Cancer,terminal illnesses etc.....she also got to look around the grand lodge and saw the goddess symbolism everywhere, noticable Hecate (the triple headed goddess, or crone who is also the symbol of the three phases of womanhood,virgin, empress and crone which is also associated with the phases of the moon.) All male society who are notorous for not allowing women into their 'club' worship goddess energy!?! mmmmmm, wonder if their using the negative femimine energy for their deeds (sucubus, lilth) hence maybe why their wives where so ill? any ideas anyone?


Very interesting. I hope you don't mind, but I've taken the liberty of posting this in my Freemason thread. (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4934) I find it very intriguing.

Thanks :)

[nickatnoon61]

Hi there

I understand what you're saying, and I have no problem with others being paid for a service if that is the only work they have.....money is just energy and healing is a fair exchange, my only beef is when healers and psychics charge ridiculous amounts of money. People can get addicted to this kind of work, people with serious problems tend to fixate on the psychic solutions and waste vast amounts of money, instead of learning to take reponsibilty for themselves or listening to their own intuition.

Now, the product of the new age, reiki.....my philosophy towards this is unfavourable I'm afraid but this is only my opinion and will not think less of anyone who is into it, indeed I have a couple of friends who swear by it, but I believe that if your are a healer you do not need to learn anything, because you are already doing it, healing is not something you do but is something you are.....

I have met too many "look at me, I'm a healer" types, the messiah-ism that accompanies this crude mentality whom have not a single healing, empathic, loving fibre in their body.

If you are a healer or family members are, then do some self healing, cystals, salt baths, walk in nature, these can all help massively with imbalance or anxiety, I wish you well...

A true heart harms noone, if you work from that then you walk a great path.

Very wise words,Lydia.:p I have a friend,in my area, whom I met thru David Icke. His name is Lance Tomlyn. http://www.preferrednetwork.com/html/details_view_165.htm He started out as a very astute"conspiracy" truthseeker years ago, and has now progressed to healing work, doing a version of the Mace Method.Mace's first book was "Turning Upsets Into Energy". I went for a few sessions, years ago, and the result was a feeling of a weight being lifted off of me. All of our traumatic experiences stay with us ,until we release or clear that negative energy, from our etheric bodies.
main

from the book

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testimonials

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Personal Mace Method–sessions

All sessions cover the following areas: negative/non–survival attitudes, emotional issues, relationship problems and finally psychosomatic body problems, in that specific order. Experience has dictated this sequence, another example of he method’s empirical nature. Incidentally, the word psychosomatic is derived from two Greek words, Psyche–spirit and Soma–body, in other words an ailment that is has a non–physical cause.

Compulsive behaviour

All forms of compulsive behaviour including eating disorders resolve quite quickly. The difference between these dis–orders and addictions although both compulsive, is that the former is a physical activity whereas the latter involves the ingestion of foreign substances. The latter require a little longer to resolve.

Addictions

Drug, alcohol and tobacco addictions are considered to be psychosomatic and treated as such. (See Psychosomatics) Clinical experience with clients has proven on countless occasions that all addiction problems have an emotional background; locate and remove the negative identities associated with the problem and hey presto the addiction vanishes. They are treated as such because addictions are invariably associated with body problems, but it is the addiction, which causes the body problems and not the other way around!

Negative attitudes & emotions

There is an important proviso that need stating; in all cases, the client must genuinely want to change. This brings up an interesting point; no matter how skilled a practitioner and no matter how powerful the Mace Method, it is impossible to change any one who does not want to change. A fundamental truth uncovered by the research is that everything that a person experiences is their own creation. This is expanded upon in the book but here is an important excerpt:

Feelings, emotions and attitudes are totally subjective. No one has a hypodermic syringe full of emotions or feelings, pleasant or unpleasant, with which to inject others. Therefore every emotion a person experiences is self–created, and it follows that he or she is the only one who can dis–create it…
There is however, a positive side to this. If people are totally responsible for creating their own feelings, they are also capable of eliminating any unwanted feelings provided they know how to do so. The Mace Method provides this “know how”.

A necessary and important point to mention is that anything negative (non survival) although self created is created unknowingly. This is very logical when it is considered that the primal urge is Survival, so that anything, which is non–survival, cannot be knowingly created.

Clients do not have to talk about or discuss their lives and definitely do not have to talk about any harrowing experiences that are adversely affecting them, in fact are discouraged from doing so. A case in point is a lady, the victim of sexual abuse, who after many fruitless visits to conventional counsellors for emotional relief, came to a Mace Method practitioner and burst into tears when told that she did not have to relate or relive the experience again. They were of course tears of relief! All that is necessary is for clients to indicate any unwanted feeling, or any unwanted aspect of life and then the new technology does the rest, guided of course by the practitioner—unbelievable perhaps, but true. To re–inforce this aspect, after a session has been concluded the practitioner will know practically nothing of the client’s history or personal life. Also almost unbelievable is that many clients only need about two hours with a practitioner to eliminate permanently all emotional problems. Causism is indeed a new body of knowledge that heralds a new age of understanding!

To return to the theme of a person wanting or not wanting to change; if they do not want to change there is no way they can be made to change against their will, for example, very few criminals change as a result of incarceration. Even when someone appears to change because of duress, it is a self–motivated decision to do so rather than suffer the duress that they are under. This is why forcing people to undergo counselling, is generally unsuccessful, apart from any inherent shortcomings in the counselling itself.

Abuse

Abuse can take many forms, physical, emotional and sexual. The latter, because it contains both physical and emotional elements is arguably the most devastating, but no matter how traumatic the experience, its after effects can be handled, no matter how long ago it occurred. An indisputable fact, as so many clients have found out, is this; although you cannot change the past, you can change how the past affects you now!

Importantly, like all Mace Method procedures, there is absolutely no need to revisit and discuss traumatic events. One unfortunate client after numerous fruitless visits to various counsellors, burst into tears of relief when made aware that she did not have to talk about her ordeal. When she left the session she also left behind the trauma of her sexual abuse.

Psychosomatics

As contentious as our attitude to eliminating addictions is, the attitude to psychosomatic illness is just as contentious. John Mace has been interested in emotional wellbeing since 1959 and within that timeframe, has always known that many body complaints are psychosomatic. This claim is made because of success in eliminating many such conditions. A comment needs making here and it is this; despite the widespread belief that psychosomatic illnesses are only imaginary, they are anything but imaginary. Try telling someone who suffers from some painful condition that has no medical explanation, that the pain and discomfort he/she is suffering is imaginary! Psychosomatic illnesses are far more widespread than is generally realised. Here is a testimonial:

Jan 2006, Fremantle, Western Australia.

Dear John,

I am writing to thank you firstly for giving me my life back. As you know when you met me first approximately 3 weeks ago at Christmas 2005, I was in a very sorry state. I suffered from two terminal illnesses, Raynaud's Disease and Scleroderma. Raynaud's Disease means your blood does not circulate to the ends of your fingertips and toes. Severe attacks lead to gangrene.
Scleroderma means hardening of the skin (like a callous). It also affects the internal organs causing them to harden. Both of these diseases, until now had no known cause or cure. Each day I look at my hands and feet in absolute awe! Instead of being black (from lack of circulation) I now have pink hands and feet. I also suffered from severe back and leg pain. Not only has this completely disappeared but so has my previous terminal illnesses.
With your Mace Method I am getting my quality of life back on course and this is all in a matter of weeks. For 20 years I have been sick, depressed and living with no quality of life at all. You John have given me hope, optimism and "Health". In February next month I will be 56 years of age and I am really looking forward to reaching my 100th Birthday. Thank you again John and I am very pleased to offer this testimonial and am willing to talk directly with anyone you may refer as you have my phone nr. and email address.

—Yours Sincerely, Bob Hedditch.
Many unexplained illnesses have succumbed to Mace Method procedures, but early in the research, many complaints, obviously from deep–seated trauma did not. However, over Xmas 2005, a moment of major intuition produced an entirely new method of locating these deep–seated areas. The results were amazing! Hence the above testimonial, written immediately after the new protocol was introduced. It is obvious that medicine’s general attitude to psychosomatic illness needs revising. The word general is used advisedly, for many enlightened physicians accept the reality of psychosomatic illnesses, but accepting their existence does not indicate a protocol for addressing them. Causism’s procedures are unique in this regard. A disclaimer is essential here. In no way is it claimed that the procedures or a practitioner can cure anything. The only one who can cure anything is the client, so what the procedures do is to assist a client to do that and very successfully too. All this data will be included in a future book.

Relationship Problems

Many Mace Method practitioners consider that the most important aspect of the research is Relationship Repair, for it invariably produces astounding and far-reaching results. Although relationships can produce the greatest happiness, when they go wrong they can be just as devastating, which is why their repair is so important. In the book a whole chapter is devoted to this subject.
Here are two testimonials:

My husband and I were walking on the beach this morning and discussing how lucky we were to be able to live in and enjoy such lovely surroundings, when he added, “and to finding peace at last in ourselves and our relationship.” This is thanks to you John and your amazing sessions, particularly the relationship sessions. Since then we have no stress, no upsets and our lives and relationship just flows. There is no under current tension—it has been nothing short of miraculous. We have both been on the personal growth path for years, but your wonderful technology has set us both free to just be—any upset is just like a hiccup, there and gone.

—Many, many thanks, B.L.
In October 2002 I was given back my life. After 12 years of ongoing emotional upheaval through events that ran like a bad soap opera, I had lost my health, my home, my job and people that were precious to me, but most of all I had lost myself. I feel that most of this was created from all the baggage I carried around from an abused childhood. As a family friend once said, “You kids weren't brought up, you were dragged up.”
By 2002 I was ready to give up, there seemed no reason to carry on this life that had become a confusion of emotional pain, loss and depression. I had forgotten how to laugh or enjoy the wonderful and simple pleasures I had previously known. A dear friend suggested I see John Mace. I'd tried all the usual counselling and anti-depressants with only temporary relief, so I was sceptical, but I went and my life began its turn-around. After a few sessions I was feeling more positive about myself but something still nagged at me. John in his wisdom suggested I carry out a relationship procedure to do with a person (in this case my father) who had had such a negative influence on me. That session was the key. Once those negative beliefs, feelings and emotions were negated I began to live again.
I no longer reacted badly to triggering events; the raw emotions and overwhelming tears just weren't there. It was a joy to wake in the early hours of the morning and revel in the peace I felt and knowing that at last I had been given a tool so simple yet so powerful that I could access in the event I needed it. What a marvellous sense of freedom and empowerment! I have since done several relationship sessions and marvel at the results. I feel like I've been wearing extremely dirty, cracked glasses for so long and have been given a new pair to view life in a positive, healthy way.

—My thanks seem inadequate but nevertheless, I thank you. Jan.
Do you need a session?

John Mace is available for sessions, by appointment seven days a week. Initial contact is made via e–mail.

© copyright John Mace 2007. For futher enquiries, send an email to john@macemethod.com. http://members.iinet.net.au/~identiks/testimonials.html