Fascist Joerg Heider At Gay Club Bef. Death

[mynameis]

Austrian Fascist Spent Final Hours at Gay Nightclub

Joerg Haider, the Austrian extreme rightist who died in a car crash while going twice the speed limit last week, spent the last moments of his life partying at gay hot spot Stadtkraeme, according to the German newspaper Bild. Maybe European Neo-Nazis just like to dance?

Haider's evening began with a surprise appearance at the launch party of a new Austrian tabloid, where he was photographed in the company of a young local woman. At the same party, Haider, 58, gave what would become his last interview, speaking to a reporter about his passion for Italian wine, among other things.

However, contrary to previous reports, the evening of the charismatic leader did not end there. Before heading home, Haider made a quick visit to Stadtkraeme, a local club famous for its gay night scene.

Haider was spotted leaving the place on his own shortly before 1 A.M., fatally crashing his car half an hour later.

http://gawker.com/5065458/austrian-fascist-spent-final-hours-at-gay-nightclub

[olas]

May be this kind of news is spraied in the world to desmoralise good foruns as this one.
Do we should learn to don´t judge the others? Or We will always need to ask protection to the judiciary work?
Let him go (if is true that he died).

[d9d9d9]

"Austrian Fascist Spent Final Hours at Gay Nightclub"

No offence to gay people.. but I'm not not surprised. Most of right-wing /neo-nazis are closet homosexuals.

[steevo]

Austrian Fascist Spent Final Hours at Gay Nightclub

Joerg Haider, the Austrian extreme rightist who died in a car crash while going twice the speed limit last week, spent the last moments of his life partying at gay hot spot Stadtkraeme, according to the German newspaper Bild. Maybe European Neo-Nazis just like to dance?

Haider's evening began with a surprise appearance at the launch party of a new Austrian tabloid, where he was photographed in the company of a young local woman. At the same party, Haider, 58, gave what would become his last interview, speaking to a reporter about his passion for Italian wine, among other things.

However, contrary to previous reports, the evening of the charismatic leader did not end there. Before heading home, Haider made a quick visit to Stadtkraeme, a local club famous for its gay night scene.

Haider was spotted leaving the place on his own shortly before 1 A.M., fatally crashing his car half an hour later.

http://gawker.com/5065458/austrian-fascist-spent-final-hours-at-gay-nightclub

Sounds like a typical discrediting campaign, so that whenever people mention his name when discussing the EU, they then associate it with Haider being a closet gay and it creates an uncomfortable feeling around the whole issue.
And you begin to fear using Haiders name during debates. Using his name has influence and that is why they have to discredit him even when he is dead.

[astrochicken]

It's really wierd.

I've only actually been a member here for about a month and a half, but the one thing i keep noticing repeatedly is that mynameis,d9d9d9 and damagedbrainn (hasn't made an appearance on this thread here yet..surely will though :) tend to appear and have the knack of making posts that in a sense come basically across as forum vampires or like dementors out the harry potter books.

I'm pretty sure it's not just me.

Please, do keep it up though, it's mildly amusing and i'm past being affected...

peace and love

:)

[peachped]

You don't have to agree with his politics to see through that sordid - post murder - character assassination.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/pictures/KLA10.htm

[nofuture]

Griffin had a gay relationship with Martin Webster, acccording to Webster. (National organiser of the NF in the 70s.)

[mynameis]

Why did the nazi leader go to the gay bar?

He had an instant craving for some beer and man-sized sausages.


lulz!

:)

[kasalt]

Fascism and Homosexuality (http://atheism.about.com/b/2004/07/09/fascism-and-homosexuality.htm)

[tyler]

It's really wierd.

I've only actually been a member here for about a month and a half, but the one thing i keep noticing repeatedly is that mynameis,d9d9d9 and damagedbrainn (hasn't made an appearance on this thread here yet..surely will though :) tend to appear and have the knack of making posts that in a sense come basically across as forum vampires or like dementors out the harry potter books.

I'm pretty sure it's not just me.

Please, do keep it up though, it's mildly amusing and i'm past being affected...

peace and love

:)

This forum is riddled with paid shills.

[paolo]

While cover-ups of murders, especially assassinations, are commonplace, never has such a big, quick one been arranged as in the killing of Austrian, right-wing party leader Jörg Haider. It took only a week to complete and legalize it - the same amount of time as it took to arrange a state funeral for the struck-down troublemaker. By comparison, the assassinations of leaders like JFK, MLK, RFK, Dr. David Kelly,Greater Manchester Police's Chief Constable Mike Todd et al. took months if not years to achieve the same status, and some of them don't even have it yet.

By the most reliable accounts, Haider set off home a little after midnight on Saturday morning, October 11th, after having attended a government reception, and a magazine launch at a nightclub, 'Le Caberet' where he sipped a glass of champagne, and had his photograph taken while smiling along side a scantily-dressed female performer. In taking leave of the nightclub, Haider not only said his goodbyes to assistant Alliance for the Future of Austria leader Stefan Petzner, but also got his government driver Friedrich Schager to agree to let him drive his government-provided VW Phaeton V6 - about the most powerful, electronically operated car in the business - home by himself after having left Schager off at his home.

After Haider dropped off Schager, and started going up the highway west of Klagenfurt towards Lambichel - a road Haider hated because he had had a narrow escape with death there in a 1993 accident - the vehicle continued to accelerate, apparently reaching a speed of 88mph, and became impossible to steer, moving further and further off to the right of the highway until it finally hit a concrete pillar, approximately 150 meters down the road, was flipped up into the air, and rolled over twice before ending up back on its wheels on the highway. In the process, the car lost both the doors on the left side, the lugs on the tires on this side were knocked off, its whole left side was severely smashed in, and there was a strange hole in the roof right over where Haider sat. He, though protected by air bags, and strapped into his seat, still suffered a broken neck, his left arm almost sheered off, and severe injuries to his head and chest.

A woman reported the accident, it seems, though she apparently had trouble making making contact with the rescue services. This woman said that Haider had veered off the highway after he had passed her car, though there is no evidence to support her claims, as the marks off the highway's right side showed the tire marks going straight toward the pillar without any indications of either the car's direction or speed being changed. Given the implausibility of her claims, it is hardly surprising that the Austrian police have not only not identified her but also have not had her come forward to elaborate upon her claims. She apparently is part of the problem rather than its solution.

Then the chief prosecutor, Gottfried Kranz, quickly ruled out any "foul play" or "electrical glitches", even refusing to answer a question about Haider's alcohol level in his blood. By doing so, Kranz showed that he had already determined the death to be the result of an accident - what would oblige him to withhold evidence so as not to cause undue heartbreak and embarrassment for Haider's survivors. This is part of Austria's protection of human rights. Of course, by not explaining why he was not answering the question, Kranz only fuel suspicions that Haider was DUI. There was, consequently, no need for either an autopsy or an inquest into this private tragedy.

When Petzner did not speak of Haider's alleged DUI while making his tearful, final goodbye to Haider the following day on TV - what would have certainly resulted in a great deal of self-castigation if he had thought that Haider had been drunk when he left the nightclub, and had not made sure that Haider was not allowed to drive himself home - and the media started posting stories, especially about the accident itself, Austrian authorities began spinning the story about the alcohol content in his blood, getting Petzner to agree that Haider might have been over Austria's strict .5 limit. Then Kranz apparently said that the autopsy showed that it was at 1.8, over 3 and a half times the limit - what the press, starting apparently with Der Spiegel, then attributed the finding to Petzner, though he continued to maintain that Haider was not drunk when he last saw him.

Then rumours started, claiming that Haider had visited a gay bar for all sorts, the 'Stadtkramer', before going home, though there was no mention of what happened to driver Schager in the process. While at the bar, Haider apparently just simply guzzled down Italian wine. While there was no attempt by him to pick up a gay, he was reported to be in bad enough shape when he left that another unknown person volunteered to drive him home, but Haider declined the offer.

Ultimately, Bild.com posted a story, "Was Jörg Haider drinking in a gay bar before death crash," in order to keep up the pressure on there being no "foul play" in his death by alluding to his apparent "foul play" in life. There was much more uncertainly about how much he had actually drunk, as it would have taken at least his guzzling down 15 glasses in about a half hour to get up to the blood level rumoured. The gay bit was obviously intended to keep his family, the gay bar operatives, and local officials from saying anything untoward about the matter for fear of blowback about Haider's true sexuality, what the local fathers were permitting the bar to do, and what they had permitted of this nature in the past.

Then the Volkswagen people sent down an investigative team, headed by Peter Thul, to inquire into the massive failure of its most sophisticated car, both in terms of electronic gadgetry and safety features. After inspecting the crash scene and the vehicle, the VW team was at a loss to explain it, suggesting that someone in its garage possibly caused it, unlocking its electronic brain, and programming it to go full speed ahead when certain driving conditions were reached.

The VW suggestion got nowhere in the media, however, until Thul mentioned that the Haider crash recalled the Princess Diana one - what allegedly sent Britain into a rage about the comparison, thanks to a story in The Sun. Of course, it was only an understandable allusion under the circumstances. And who knows, it might be the real one as nothing much was made of a programmed car in her case: it was all the paparazzi, DUI, The Duke of Edinburgh, another missing car, MI6 agents, especially Oswald Le Winter, etc. (Remember in the sudden death of FBI Director J. Edgard Hoover, no one thought that he might have been poisoned to death by Nixon's Plumbers until the full scope of their agenda and capability, particularly inducing a heart attack by a pill the CIA had just developed through its Often program, was disclosed.)

At this point, there are just too many unidentified people in the story - i. e., the woman who reported the crash, the person who offered the drunk, it seems, Haider a ride home, and who the people are at the garage where the Phaeton was kept, and what did they do. Then there has been no follow-up about what Schager and Petzner really know, and think about the tragedy.

It seems certainly quite possible that a team of assassins - like a Mossad kidon - set up Haider for a programmed kill where he was strapped into his death vehicle while it went down the predetermined way, helped along by the car of the missing witness, as if he were a war criminal, getting his just desserts while still fully conscious.

Little wonder that the elite of Austria's current establishment made the most of it by turning up at state funeral that it had arranged for Haider since their hated opponent was truly finally dead.

If more is not investigated and explained about this still most suspicious death, it will become one of the favourites for future conspiracy theorists.

http://kennysideshow.blogspot.com/2008/10/views-on-deathassassination-of-jorg.html

[mynameis]

I found this for our friend Joerg may he be remembered...In the end, he did come around. I wonder how many closet gays on the far right this will eventually help?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3210/2674202381_b97ce759ca_o.jpg

It's not a shame to be a gay fascist. Anyone who says there is I think is lying.

[cori]

Haider was neither drunk nor in a gay bar of that little town.
Source:
http://info.kopp-verlag.de/news/beobachtungen-am-unfallort-von-joerg-h.html
http://info.kopp-verlag.de/news/zeugen-haider-hatte-keinen-alkohol-getrunken.html
http://info.kopp-verlag.de/news/ente-im-phaeton-kleid-medienfaelschungen-im-fall-haider.html
http://info.kopp-verlag.de/news/neue-animation-von-rtl.html
http://info.kopp-verlag.de/news/cherchez-le-camion-kollidierte-haider-fahrzeug-mit-lkw.html
http://info.kopp-verlag.de/news/haider-einaescherung-ist-vernichtung-von-beweismitteln.html
http://info.kopp-verlag.de/news/ex-wega-mann-war-eine-bombe-beteiligt.html
http://info.kopp-verlag.de/news/haider-das-volk-von-kaernten-ermittelt.html

[damagedbrainn]

Neo-Nazis have no sense of humor.

(There, I showed up.)

[damagedbrainn]

It's really wierd.

I've only actually been a member here for about a month and a half, but the one thing i keep noticing repeatedly is that mynameis,d9d9d9 and damagedbrainn (hasn't made an appearance on this thread here yet..surely will though :) tend to appear and have the knack of making posts that in a sense come basically across as forum vampires or like dementors out the harry potter books.

I'm pretty sure it's not just me.

Please, do keep it up though, it's mildly amusing and i'm past being affected...

peace and love

:)

We gonna eat you through the internet boy!

[haukipesukone]

Sounds like a typical discrediting campaign, so that whenever people mention his name when discussing the EU, they then associate it with Haider being a closet gay and it creates an uncomfortable feeling around the whole issue.
And you begin to fear using Haiders name during debates. Using his name has influence and that is why they have to discredit him even when he is dead.

I think it's more a diversion campaign than a smear campaign. Instead of people saying that he was murdered, they're saying he was gay.


I've only actually been a member here for about a month and a half, but the one thing i keep noticing repeatedly is that mynameis,d9d9d9 and damagedbrainn (hasn't made an appearance on this thread here yet..surely will though :) tend to appear and have the knack of making posts that in a sense come basically across as forum vampires or like dementors out the harry potter books.

I'm pretty sure it's not just me.


It's not just you. Although I can't say that about d9d9d9. I haven't paid much attention to him/her.

[stelios]

It's really wierd.

I've only actually been a member here for about a month and a half, but the one thing i keep noticing repeatedly is that mynameis,d9d9d9 and damagedbrainn (hasn't made an appearance on this thread here yet..surely will though :) tend to appear and have the knack of making posts that in a sense come basically across as forum vampires or like dementors out the harry potter books.

I'm pretty sure it's not just me.

Please, do keep it up though, it's mildly amusing and i'm past being affected...

peace and love

:)

You are totally correct.

This topic is the latest in a long line of disinformation topics posted by that group.
Jorg Heidar was murdered because he was extremely popular and opposed the EU.
Dont forget Austria also has not obeyed the Israeli/USA sanctions against Iran.
Being gay is no longer against the law so mynameis is simply spamming drivel. He would be better posting up about all the Labour cabinet ministers who are gay and want to teach gay sex procedures to children as young as five in UK schools.
Why not post up about gay zionists like Peter Mandelsohn?

[d9d9d9]

This forum is riddled with paid shills.
... and tyler is one of them.

[tyler]

Why has this D8D9D9 character got that awful picture on all his posts? The poor girl is suffering from cancer.

There are many shills on this forum brought hear by Megaphone...google it...they have even infiltrated the management!

[mynameis]

The Strange, Strange Story of the Gay Fascists
by Johann Hari
Posted October 21, 2008

The news that Jorg Haider - the Austrian fascist leader - spent his final few hours in a gay bar with a hot blond has shocked some people. It hasn't shocked me. This is a taboo topic for a gay left-wing man like me to touch, but there has always been a weird, disproportionate overlap between homosexuality and fascism. Take a deep breath; here goes.

Some 10,000 gay people were slaughtered in the Nazi death-camps. Many more were humiliated, jailed, deported, ethnically cleansed, or castrated. One gay survivor of the camps, LD Classen von Neudegg, has written about his experiences. A snapshot: "Three men had tried to escape one night. They were captured, and when they returned they had the word 'homo' scrawled across their clothing. They were placed on a block and whipped. Then they were forced to beat a drum and cheer, 'Hurrah! We're back! Hurrah!' Then they were hanged." This is one of the milder events documented in his book.

So the idea of a gay fascist seems ridiculous. Yet when the British National Party - our own home-grown Holocaust-denying bigots - announced it was fielding an openly gay candidate in the European elections this June, dedicated followers of fascism didn't blink. The twisted truth is that gay men have been at the heart of every major fascist movement that ever was - including the gay-gassing, homo-cidal Third Reich. With the exception of Jean-Marie Le Pen, all the most high-profile fascists in Europe in the past thirty years have been gay. It's time to admit something. Fascism isn't something that happens out there, a nasty habit acquired by the straight boys. It is - in part, at least - a gay thing, and it's time for non-fascist gay people to wake up and face the marching music.

Just look at our own continent over the past decade. Dutch fascist Pim Fortuyn ran on blatantly racist anti-immigrant platform, describing Islam as "a cancer" and "the biggest threat to Western civilisation today." Yet with two little fluffy dogs and a Mamma complex, he was openly, flamboyantly gay. When accused by a political opponent of hating Arabs, he replied, "How can I hate Arabs? I sucked one off last night."

Jorg Haider blasted Austria's cosy post-Nazi politics to rubble in 2000 when his neo-fascist 'Freedom Party' won a quarter of the vote and joined the country's government as a coalition partner. Several facts always cropped up in the international press coverage: his square jaw, his muscled torso, his SS-supporting father, his rabid anti-Semitism, his hatred of immigrants, his description of Auschwitz and Dachau as "punishment centres". A few newspapers mentioned that he is always surrounded by fit, fanatical young men. A handful went further and pointed out that several of these young men are openly gay. Then one left-wing German paper broke the story everybody else was hinting at. They alleged Haider is gay.

Rumours of an Indian waiter with "intimate details" of Haider's body broke into the press. The Freedom Party's general manager Gerald Miscka quickly quit, amid accusations that he was Haider's lover. Haider's close gay friend Walter Kohler - who has been photographed showing off a holstered pistol while Haider chuckled - declared his opposition to outing politicians. Haider - who was married and has two children - kept quiet while his functionaries denied the rumours. The revelation that he died after leaving a gay bar suggests these rumours were true.


On and on it goes. If you inter-railed across Europe, only stopping with gay fascists, there aren't many sights you'd miss. France's leading post-war fascist was Edouard Pfieffer, who was not batting for the straight side. Germany's leading neo-Nazi all through the eighties was called Michael Kuhnen; he died of AIDS in 1991 a few years after coming out. Martin Lee, author of a study of European fascism, explains, "For Kuhnen, there was something supermacho about being a Nazi, as well as being a homosexual, both of which enforced his sense of living on the edge, of belonging to an elite that was destined to make an impact. He told a West German journalist that homosexuals were 'especially well-suited for our task, because they do not want ties to wife, children and family.'"

And it wouldn't be long before your whistlestop tour arrived in Britain. At first glance, our Nazis seem militantly straight. They have tried to disrupt gay parades, describe gay people as "evil", and BNP leader Nick Griffin reacted charmingly to the bombing of the Admiral Duncan pub in 1999 with a column saying, "The TV footage of gay demonstrators [outside the scene of carnage] flaunting their perversion in front of the world's journalists showed just why so many ordinary people find these creatures repulsive."

But scratch to homophobic surface and there's a spandex swastika underneath. In 1999, Martin Webster, a former National Front organiser and head honcho in the British fascist movement, wrote a four-page pamphlet detailing his 'affair' with Nick Griffin. "Griffin sought out intimate relations with me," openly-gay Webster explained, "in the late 1970s. He was twenty years younger than me." Ray Hill, who infiltrated the British fascist movement for twelve years to gather information for anti-fascist groups, says it's all too plausible. Homosexuality is "extremely prevalent" in the upper echelons of the British far right, and at one stage in the 1980s nearly half of the movement's organisers were gay, he claims.

Gerry Gable, editor of the anti-fascist magazine 'Searchlight', explains, "I have looked at Britain's Nazi groups for decades and this homophobic hypocrisy has been there all the time. I cannot think of any organisation on the extreme right that hasn't attacked people on the grounds of their sexual preference and at the same time contained many gay officers and activists."

Griffins' alleged gay affair would stand in a long British fascist tradition. The leader of the skinhead movement all through the 1970s was a crazed, muscled thug called Nicky Crane. He was the icon of a reactionary backlash against immigrants, feminism and the 'hippy' lifetsyle of the 1960s. His movement's emphasis on conformity to a shaven, dehumanised norm resembled classical fascist movements; Crane soon became a campaigner and leading figure in the National Front. Oh, and he was gay. Before he died of AIDS in the mid-1980s, Crane came out and admitted he had starred in many gay porn videos. Just before he died in 1986, he was allowed to steward a Gay Pride march in London, even though he still said he was "proud to be a fascist."

The rubber-soled friction between gay fascists and progressive British gay people sparked into anger in 1985 when the Gay Skinhead Movement organised a disco at London's Gay Centre. Several lesbians in particular objected to the "invasion" of the centre. They felt that the cult of "real men" and hypermasculine thugs was stirring up the most base feelings "in the very place, the gay movement, where you would least expect them."

And this Gaystapo has an icon to revere, an alternative Fuhrer to worship: the lost gay fascist leader Ernst Rohm. Along with Adolf Hitler, Rohm was the founding father of Nazism. Born to conservative Bavarian civil servants in 1887, Ernst Rohm's life began - in his view - in the "heroic" trenches of the First World War. Like so many of the generation who formed the Nazi Party, he was nurtured by and obsessed with the homoerotic myth of the trenches - heroic, beautiful boys prepared to die for their brothers and their country.

He emerged from the war with a bullet-scarred face and a reverence for war. As he put it in his autobiography, "Since I am an immature and wicked man, war and unrest appeal to me more than the good bourgeois order." After being disbanded, he tried half-heartedly to get a foothold in civilian life, but he saw it as alien, bourgeois, boring. He had no political beliefs, only prejudices - particularly hatred of Jews. Historian Joachim Fest describes Rohm's generation of alienated, demobbed young men humiliated by defeat as "agents of a permanent revolution without any revolutionary idea of the future, only a wish to eternalize the values of the trenches."

It was Rohm who first spotted the potential of a soap-box ranter called Adolf Hitler. He saw him as the demagogue he needed to mobilize support for his plan to overthrow democracy and establish a "soldier's state" where the army ruled untrammelled. He introduced the young fascist to local politicians and military leaders; they knew him for many years as "Rohm's boy." Gay historian Frank Rector notes, "Hitler was, to a substantial extent, Rohm's protégé." Rohm integrated Hitler into his underground movement to overthrow the Weimar Republic.

Rohm's blatant, out homosexuality seems bizarre now, given the gay genocide that was to follow. He talked openly about his fondness for gay bars and Turkish baths, and was known for his virility. He believed that gay people were superior to straights, and saw homosexuality as a key principle of his proposed Brave New Fascist Order. As historian Louis Snyder explains, Rohm "projected a social order in which homosexuality would be regarded as a human behaviour pattern of high repute... He flaunted his homosexuality in public and insisted his cronies do the same. He believed straight people weren't as adept at bullying and aggression as homosexuals, so homosexuality was given a high premium in the SA." They promoted an aggressive, hypermasculine form of homosexuality, condemning "hysterical women of both sexes", in reference to feminine gay men.

This belief in the superiority of homosexuality had a strong German tradition that grew up at the turn of the twentieth century around Adolf Brand, publisher of the country's first gay magazine. You could call it 'Queer as Volk': they preached that gay men were the foundation of all nation-states and represented an elite, warrior caste that should rule. They venerated the ancient warrior cults of Sparta, Thebes and Athens.

Rohm often referred to the ancient Greek tradition of sending gay solider couples into battle, because they were believed to be the most ferocious fighters. The famous pass of Thermopylae, for example was held by 300 soldiers - who consisted of 150 gay couples. In its early years, the SA - Hitler and Rohm's underground army - was seen as predominantly gay. Rohm assigned prominent posts to his lovers, making Edmund Heines his deputy and Karl Ernst the SA commander in Berlin. The organisation would sometimes meet in gay bars. The gay art historian Christian Isermayer said in an interview, "I got to know people in the SA. They used to throw riotous parties even in 1933... I once attended one. It was quite well-behaved but thoroughly gay. But then, in those days, the SA was ultra-gay."

On June 30th 1934, Rohm was awoken in a Berlin hotel by Hitler himself. He sprang to his feet and saluted, calling, "Heil Mein Fuhrer!" Hitler said simply, "You are under arrest," and with that he left the room, giving orders for Rohm to be taken to Standelheim prison. He was shot that night. Rohm was the most high-profile kill in the massacre known as 'the Night of the Long Knives'.

Rohm had been suspected by Hitler of disloyalty, but his murder began a massive crackdown on gay people. Heinrich Himmler, head of the Gestapo, described homosexuality as "a symptom of degeneracy that could destroy our race. We must return to the guiding Nordic principle: extermination of degenerates."

German historian Lothar Machtan argues that Hitler had Rohm - and almost all of the large number of gay figures within the SA - killed to silence speculation about his own homosexual experiences. His 'evidence' for Hitler being gay is shaky and has been questioned by many historians, although some of his findings are at least suggestive. A close friend of Hitler's during his teenager years, August Kubizek, alleged a "romantic" affair between them. Hans Mend, a despatch rider who served alongside Hitler in the First World War, claimed to have seen Hitler having sex with a man. Hitler was certainly very close to several gay men, and never seems to have had a normal sexual relationship with a woman, not even his wife, Eva Braun.

Rudolph Diels, the founder of the Gestapo, recorded some of Hitler's private thoughts on homosexuality. "It had destroyed ancient Greece, he said. Once rife, it extended its contagious effects like an ineluctable law of nature to the best and most manly of characters, eliminating from the breeding pool the very men the Volk most needs." This idea - that homosexuality is 'contagious' and, implicitly, tempting - is revealing.

Rohm is venerated on the Homo-Nazi sites that have bred on the internet like germs in a wound. They have names like Gays Against Semitism (with the charming acronym GAS), and the Aryan Resistance Corps (ARC). Their Rohmite philosophy is simple: while white men are superior to other races, gay men are "the masters of the Master Race". They alone are endowed with the "capacity for pure male bonding" and the "superior intellect" that is needed for "a fascist revolution." The ARC even organises holiday "get-togethers" for its members where "you can relax amongst the company of our fellow white brothers."

So it's fairly easy to establish that gay people are not inoculated from fascism. They have often been at its heart. This begs the bigger question: why? How did gay people - so often victims of oppression and hate - become integral to the most hateful and evil political movement of all? Is it just an extreme form of self-harm, the political equivalent to the gay kids who slash their own arms to ribbons out of self-hate?

Gay pornographer and film-maker Bruce LaBruce has one explanation. He claims that "all gay porn today is implictly fascist. Fascism is in our bones, because it's all about glorifying white male supremacy and fetishizing domination, cruelty, power and monstrous authority figures." He has tried to explore the relationship between homosexuality and fascism in his movies, beginning with 'No Skin Off My Ass' in 1991. In his disturbing 1999 film "Skin Flick', a bourgeois gay couple - one black, one white - are sexually terrorised by a gang of gay skinheads who beat off to 'Mein Kampf' and beat up 'femmes'. He implies that bourgeois gay norms quickly break down to reveal a fascist lurking underneath; the movie ends with the black character being raped in front of his half-aroused white lover, as the racist gang chant, "Fuck the monkey."

I decided to track down some gay fascists and ask them directly. Wyatt Powers, director of the ARC, says, "I always knew in my heart racist and gay were both morally right. I don't see any conflict between them. It's only the Jew-owned gay press that tries to convince us that racialism is the same thing as homophobia. You can be an extreme nationalist and gay without any contradiction at all."

One comment board on a gay racist website goes even further into racist lunacy. One gay man from Ohio says, "Even if you are gay and white, or retarded and white, YOU ARE WHITE, BOTTOM LINE! Instead of letting the white race go extinct because of worthless races such as the Africans or Mexicans popping out literally millions of babies a day, we have to fight this fucked up shit they are doing. They are raping our country." It's true that racism and homophobia do not necessarily overlap - but as Rabbi Bernard Melchman explains, "Homophobia and anti-Semitism are so often part of the same disease." Racists are usually homophobic. Even after reading all their web rantings, I didn't feel any closer to understanding why so many gay men ally themselves with people who will almost always turn on them in the end, just as the Nazis did.

Gay rights campaigner Peter Tatchell has a sensitive and intriguing explanation. "There are many reasons for this kind of thing," he says. "Some of them are in denial. They are going for hyper-masculinity, the most extreme possible way of being a man. It's a way of ostentatiously rejecting the perceived effeminacy of the homosexual 'Other'. These troubled men have a simple belief in their minds: 'Straight men are tough. Queers are weak. Therefore if I'm tough I can't be queer.' It's a desperate way of proving their manhood."

'Searchlight' magazine - the bible of the British anti-fascist movement, with moles in every major far-right organisation - offers an alternative explanation. "Generally condemned by a society that continues to be largely hostile to gays, some men may find refuge and a new power status in the far right," one of their writers has explained. "Through adherence to the politics espoused by fascist groups, a new identity emerges - one where they aren't outcasts, because they are White Men, superior to everyone else. They render the gay part of their identity invisible - or reject the socially less acceptable parts, like being feminine - while vaunting what they see as superior."

But there's another important question: will fascist movements inevitably turn on gay people? In the case of the Nazis, it seems to have been fairly arbitrary; Hitler's main reason for killing Rohm was unrelated to his sexuality. From my perspective as a progressive-minded leftie, all fascism is evil; but should all gay people see it as inimical to their interests? Is it possible to have a gay fascist who wasn't acting against his own interests? Fascism is often defined as "a political ideology advocating hierarchical government that systematically denies equality to certain groups." It's true that this hierarchy could benefit gay people at the expense of, say, black people. But given the prevalence of homophobia, isn't that - even for people who don't see fascism as inherently evil - a terrible risk to take? Won't a culture that turns viciously on one minority get around to gay people in the end? This seems, ultimately, to be the lesson of Ernst Rohm's pitiful, squalid little life.

The growing awareness of the role gay men play in fascist movements has been abused by some homophobes. In an especially nutty work of revisionist history called 'The Pink Swastika', the 'historian' Scott Lively tries to blame gay people for the entire Holocaust, and describes the murder of gay men in the camps as merely "gay-on-gay violence." A typical website commenting on the book claims absurdly, "The Pink Swastika shows that there was far more brutality, rape, torture and murder committed against innocent people by Nazi homosexuals than there even was against homosexuals themselves."

Yet we can't allow these madmen to prevent a period of serious self-reflection from the gay movement. If Bruce LaBruce is right, many of the mainstream elements of gay culture - body worship, the lauding of the strong, a fetish for authority figures and cruelty - provide a swamp in which the fascist virus can thrive. Do some gay people really still need to learn that fascists will not bring on a Fabulous Solution for gay people, but a Final Solution for us all?


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-strange-strange-story_b_136697.html

[xpleet]

Choose to be smart and simply don't reply to threads like these anymore and let them peacefully die to page2 within a couple of hours, never to be seen again.

[mynameis]

The Strange, Strange Story of the Gay Fascists
by Johann Hari
Posted October 21, 2008

The news that Jorg Haider - the Austrian fascist leader - spent his final few hours in a gay bar with a hot blond has shocked some people. It hasn't shocked me. This is a taboo topic for a gay left-wing man like me to touch, but there has always been a weird, disproportionate overlap between homosexuality and fascism. Take a deep breath; here goes.

Some 10,000 gay people were slaughtered in the Nazi death-camps. Many more were humiliated, jailed, deported, ethnically cleansed, or castrated. One gay survivor of the camps, LD Classen von Neudegg, has written about his experiences. A snapshot: "Three men had tried to escape one night. They were captured, and when they returned they had the word 'homo' scrawled across their clothing. They were placed on a block and whipped. Then they were forced to beat a drum and cheer, 'Hurrah! We're back! Hurrah!' Then they were hanged." This is one of the milder events documented in his book.

So the idea of a gay fascist seems ridiculous. Yet when the British National Party - our own home-grown Holocaust-denying bigots - announced it was fielding an openly gay candidate in the European elections this June, dedicated followers of fascism didn't blink. The twisted truth is that gay men have been at the heart of every major fascist movement that ever was - including the gay-gassing, homo-cidal Third Reich. With the exception of Jean-Marie Le Pen, all the most high-profile fascists in Europe in the past thirty years have been gay. It's time to admit something. Fascism isn't something that happens out there, a nasty habit acquired by the straight boys. It is - in part, at least - a gay thing, and it's time for non-fascist gay people to wake up and face the marching music.

Just look at our own continent over the past decade. Dutch fascist Pim Fortuyn ran on blatantly racist anti-immigrant platform, describing Islam as "a cancer" and "the biggest threat to Western civilisation today." Yet with two little fluffy dogs and a Mamma complex, he was openly, flamboyantly gay. When accused by a political opponent of hating Arabs, he replied, "How can I hate Arabs? I sucked one off last night."

Jorg Haider blasted Austria's cosy post-Nazi politics to rubble in 2000 when his neo-fascist 'Freedom Party' won a quarter of the vote and joined the country's government as a coalition partner. Several facts always cropped up in the international press coverage: his square jaw, his muscled torso, his SS-supporting father, his rabid anti-Semitism, his hatred of immigrants, his description of Auschwitz and Dachau as "punishment centres". A few newspapers mentioned that he is always surrounded by fit, fanatical young men. A handful went further and pointed out that several of these young men are openly gay. Then one left-wing German paper broke the story everybody else was hinting at. They alleged Haider is gay.

Rumours of an Indian waiter with "intimate details" of Haider's body broke into the press. The Freedom Party's general manager Gerald Miscka quickly quit, amid accusations that he was Haider's lover. Haider's close gay friend Walter Kohler - who has been photographed showing off a holstered pistol while Haider chuckled - declared his opposition to outing politicians. Haider - who was married and has two children - kept quiet while his functionaries denied the rumours. The revelation that he died after leaving a gay bar suggests these rumours were true.


On and on it goes. If you inter-railed across Europe, only stopping with gay fascists, there aren't many sights you'd miss. France's leading post-war fascist was Edouard Pfieffer, who was not batting for the straight side. Germany's leading neo-Nazi all through the eighties was called Michael Kuhnen; he died of AIDS in 1991 a few years after coming out. Martin Lee, author of a study of European fascism, explains, "For Kuhnen, there was something supermacho about being a Nazi, as well as being a homosexual, both of which enforced his sense of living on the edge, of belonging to an elite that was destined to make an impact. He told a West German journalist that homosexuals were 'especially well-suited for our task, because they do not want ties to wife, children and family.'"

And it wouldn't be long before your whistlestop tour arrived in Britain. At first glance, our Nazis seem militantly straight. They have tried to disrupt gay parades, describe gay people as "evil", and BNP leader Nick Griffin reacted charmingly to the bombing of the Admiral Duncan pub in 1999 with a column saying, "The TV footage of gay demonstrators [outside the scene of carnage] flaunting their perversion in front of the world's journalists showed just why so many ordinary people find these creatures repulsive."

But scratch to homophobic surface and there's a spandex swastika underneath. In 1999, Martin Webster, a former National Front organiser and head honcho in the British fascist movement, wrote a four-page pamphlet detailing his 'affair' with Nick Griffin. "Griffin sought out intimate relations with me," openly-gay Webster explained, "in the late 1970s. He was twenty years younger than me." Ray Hill, who infiltrated the British fascist movement for twelve years to gather information for anti-fascist groups, says it's all too plausible. Homosexuality is "extremely prevalent" in the upper echelons of the British far right, and at one stage in the 1980s nearly half of the movement's organisers were gay, he claims.

Gerry Gable, editor of the anti-fascist magazine 'Searchlight', explains, "I have looked at Britain's Nazi groups for decades and this homophobic hypocrisy has been there all the time. I cannot think of any organisation on the extreme right that hasn't attacked people on the grounds of their sexual preference and at the same time contained many gay officers and activists."

Griffins' alleged gay affair would stand in a long British fascist tradition. The leader of the skinhead movement all through the 1970s was a crazed, muscled thug called Nicky Crane. He was the icon of a reactionary backlash against immigrants, feminism and the 'hippy' lifetsyle of the 1960s. His movement's emphasis on conformity to a shaven, dehumanised norm resembled classical fascist movements; Crane soon became a campaigner and leading figure in the National Front. Oh, and he was gay. Before he died of AIDS in the mid-1980s, Crane came out and admitted he had starred in many gay porn videos. Just before he died in 1986, he was allowed to steward a Gay Pride march in London, even though he still said he was "proud to be a fascist."

The rubber-soled friction between gay fascists and progressive British gay people sparked into anger in 1985 when the Gay Skinhead Movement organised a disco at London's Gay Centre. Several lesbians in particular objected to the "invasion" of the centre. They felt that the cult of "real men" and hypermasculine thugs was stirring up the most base feelings "in the very place, the gay movement, where you would least expect them."

And this Gaystapo has an icon to revere, an alternative Fuhrer to worship: the lost gay fascist leader Ernst Rohm. Along with Adolf Hitler, Rohm was the founding father of Nazism. Born to conservative Bavarian civil servants in 1887, Ernst Rohm's life began - in his view - in the "heroic" trenches of the First World War. Like so many of the generation who formed the Nazi Party, he was nurtured by and obsessed with the homoerotic myth of the trenches - heroic, beautiful boys prepared to die for their brothers and their country.

He emerged from the war with a bullet-scarred face and a reverence for war. As he put it in his autobiography, "Since I am an immature and wicked man, war and unrest appeal to me more than the good bourgeois order." After being disbanded, he tried half-heartedly to get a foothold in civilian life, but he saw it as alien, bourgeois, boring. He had no political beliefs, only prejudices - particularly hatred of Jews. Historian Joachim Fest describes Rohm's generation of alienated, demobbed young men humiliated by defeat as "agents of a permanent revolution without any revolutionary idea of the future, only a wish to eternalize the values of the trenches."

It was Rohm who first spotted the potential of a soap-box ranter called Adolf Hitler. He saw him as the demagogue he needed to mobilize support for his plan to overthrow democracy and establish a "soldier's state" where the army ruled untrammelled. He introduced the young fascist to local politicians and military leaders; they knew him for many years as "Rohm's boy." Gay historian Frank Rector notes, "Hitler was, to a substantial extent, Rohm's protégé." Rohm integrated Hitler into his underground movement to overthrow the Weimar Republic.

Rohm's blatant, out homosexuality seems bizarre now, given the gay genocide that was to follow. He talked openly about his fondness for gay bars and Turkish baths, and was known for his virility. He believed that gay people were superior to straights, and saw homosexuality as a key principle of his proposed Brave New Fascist Order. As historian Louis Snyder explains, Rohm "projected a social order in which homosexuality would be regarded as a human behaviour pattern of high repute... He flaunted his homosexuality in public and insisted his cronies do the same. He believed straight people weren't as adept at bullying and aggression as homosexuals, so homosexuality was given a high premium in the SA." They promoted an aggressive, hypermasculine form of homosexuality, condemning "hysterical women of both sexes", in reference to feminine gay men.

This belief in the superiority of homosexuality had a strong German tradition that grew up at the turn of the twentieth century around Adolf Brand, publisher of the country's first gay magazine. You could call it 'Queer as Volk': they preached that gay men were the foundation of all nation-states and represented an elite, warrior caste that should rule. They venerated the ancient warrior cults of Sparta, Thebes and Athens.

Rohm often referred to the ancient Greek tradition of sending gay solider couples into battle, because they were believed to be the most ferocious fighters. The famous pass of Thermopylae, for example was held by 300 soldiers - who consisted of 150 gay couples. In its early years, the SA - Hitler and Rohm's underground army - was seen as predominantly gay. Rohm assigned prominent posts to his lovers, making Edmund Heines his deputy and Karl Ernst the SA commander in Berlin. The organisation would sometimes meet in gay bars. The gay art historian Christian Isermayer said in an interview, "I got to know people in the SA. They used to throw riotous parties even in 1933... I once attended one. It was quite well-behaved but thoroughly gay. But then, in those days, the SA was ultra-gay."

On June 30th 1934, Rohm was awoken in a Berlin hotel by Hitler himself. He sprang to his feet and saluted, calling, "Heil Mein Fuhrer!" Hitler said simply, "You are under arrest," and with that he left the room, giving orders for Rohm to be taken to Standelheim prison. He was shot that night. Rohm was the most high-profile kill in the massacre known as 'the Night of the Long Knives'.

Rohm had been suspected by Hitler of disloyalty, but his murder began a massive crackdown on gay people. Heinrich Himmler, head of the Gestapo, described homosexuality as "a symptom of degeneracy that could destroy our race. We must return to the guiding Nordic principle: extermination of degenerates."

German historian Lothar Machtan argues that Hitler had Rohm - and almost all of the large number of gay figures within the SA - killed to silence speculation about his own homosexual experiences. His 'evidence' for Hitler being gay is shaky and has been questioned by many historians, although some of his findings are at least suggestive. A close friend of Hitler's during his teenager years, August Kubizek, alleged a "romantic" affair between them. Hans Mend, a despatch rider who served alongside Hitler in the First World War, claimed to have seen Hitler having sex with a man. Hitler was certainly very close to several gay men, and never seems to have had a normal sexual relationship with a woman, not even his wife, Eva Braun.

Rudolph Diels, the founder of the Gestapo, recorded some of Hitler's private thoughts on homosexuality. "It had destroyed ancient Greece, he said. Once rife, it extended its contagious effects like an ineluctable law of nature to the best and most manly of characters, eliminating from the breeding pool the very men the Volk most needs." This idea - that homosexuality is 'contagious' and, implicitly, tempting - is revealing.

Rohm is venerated on the Homo-Nazi sites that have bred on the internet like germs in a wound. They have names like Gays Against Semitism (with the charming acronym GAS), and the Aryan Resistance Corps (ARC). Their Rohmite philosophy is simple: while white men are superior to other races, gay men are "the masters of the Master Race". They alone are endowed with the "capacity for pure male bonding" and the "superior intellect" that is needed for "a fascist revolution." The ARC even organises holiday "get-togethers" for its members where "you can relax amongst the company of our fellow white brothers."

So it's fairly easy to establish that gay people are not inoculated from fascism. They have often been at its heart. This begs the bigger question: why? How did gay people - so often victims of oppression and hate - become integral to the most hateful and evil political movement of all? Is it just an extreme form of self-harm, the political equivalent to the gay kids who slash their own arms to ribbons out of self-hate?

Gay pornographer and film-maker Bruce LaBruce has one explanation. He claims that "all gay porn today is implictly fascist. Fascism is in our bones, because it's all about glorifying white male supremacy and fetishizing domination, cruelty, power and monstrous authority figures." He has tried to explore the relationship between homosexuality and fascism in his movies, beginning with 'No Skin Off My Ass' in 1991. In his disturbing 1999 film "Skin Flick', a bourgeois gay couple - one black, one white - are sexually terrorised by a gang of gay skinheads who beat off to 'Mein Kampf' and beat up 'femmes'. He implies that bourgeois gay norms quickly break down to reveal a fascist lurking underneath; the movie ends with the black character being raped in front of his half-aroused white lover, as the racist gang chant, "Fuck the monkey."

I decided to track down some gay fascists and ask them directly. Wyatt Powers, director of the ARC, says, "I always knew in my heart racist and gay were both morally right. I don't see any conflict between them. It's only the Jew-owned gay press that tries to convince us that racialism is the same thing as homophobia. You can be an extreme nationalist and gay without any contradiction at all."

One comment board on a gay racist website goes even further into racist lunacy. One gay man from Ohio says, "Even if you are gay and white, or retarded and white, YOU ARE WHITE, BOTTOM LINE! Instead of letting the white race go extinct because of worthless races such as the Africans or Mexicans popping out literally millions of babies a day, we have to fight this fucked up shit they are doing. They are raping our country." It's true that racism and homophobia do not necessarily overlap - but as Rabbi Bernard Melchman explains, "Homophobia and anti-Semitism are so often part of the same disease." Racists are usually homophobic. Even after reading all their web rantings, I didn't feel any closer to understanding why so many gay men ally themselves with people who will almost always turn on them in the end, just as the Nazis did.

Gay rights campaigner Peter Tatchell has a sensitive and intriguing explanation. "There are many reasons for this kind of thing," he says. "Some of them are in denial. They are going for hyper-masculinity, the most extreme possible way of being a man. It's a way of ostentatiously rejecting the perceived effeminacy of the homosexual 'Other'. These troubled men have a simple belief in their minds: 'Straight men are tough. Queers are weak. Therefore if I'm tough I can't be queer.' It's a desperate way of proving their manhood."

'Searchlight' magazine - the bible of the British anti-fascist movement, with moles in every major far-right organisation - offers an alternative explanation. "Generally condemned by a society that continues to be largely hostile to gays, some men may find refuge and a new power status in the far right," one of their writers has explained. "Through adherence to the politics espoused by fascist groups, a new identity emerges - one where they aren't outcasts, because they are White Men, superior to everyone else. They render the gay part of their identity invisible - or reject the socially less acceptable parts, like being feminine - while vaunting what they see as superior."

But there's another important question: will fascist movements inevitably turn on gay people? In the case of the Nazis, it seems to have been fairly arbitrary; Hitler's main reason for killing Rohm was unrelated to his sexuality. From my perspective as a progressive-minded leftie, all fascism is evil; but should all gay people see it as inimical to their interests? Is it possible to have a gay fascist who wasn't acting against his own interests? Fascism is often defined as "a political ideology advocating hierarchical government that systematically denies equality to certain groups." It's true that this hierarchy could benefit gay people at the expense of, say, black people. But given the prevalence of homophobia, isn't that - even for people who don't see fascism as inherently evil - a terrible risk to take? Won't a culture that turns viciously on one minority get around to gay people in the end? This seems, ultimately, to be the lesson of Ernst Rohm's pitiful, squalid little life.

The growing awareness of the role gay men play in fascist movements has been abused by some homophobes. In an especially nutty work of revisionist history called 'The Pink Swastika', the 'historian' Scott Lively tries to blame gay people for the entire Holocaust, and describes the murder of gay men in the camps as merely "gay-on-gay violence." A typical website commenting on the book claims absurdly, "The Pink Swastika shows that there was far more brutality, rape, torture and murder committed against innocent people by Nazi homosexuals than there even was against homosexuals themselves."

Yet we can't allow these madmen to prevent a period of serious self-reflection from the gay movement. If Bruce LaBruce is right, many of the mainstream elements of gay culture - body worship, the lauding of the strong, a fetish for authority figures and cruelty - provide a swamp in which the fascist virus can thrive. Do some gay people really still need to learn that fascists will not bring on a Fabulous Solution for gay people, but a Final Solution for us all?


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-strange-strange-story_b_136697.html

Yes...that's good advice Xpleet.

[olas]

.

[kasalt]

Haider's lover steps down as far-right party leader

http://www.france24.com/en/20081023-haider-petzner-lover-resign-far-right-party-leader-austria&navi=EUROPE

Thursday 23 October 2008
Stefan Petzner, a former beauty journalist, was forced to step down from the helm of his far right-wing Austrian party shortly after announcing on Austrian radio that he and the notorious Joerg Haider, who died Oct. 11, had been lovers.

http://www.france24.com/files/story/20081023-haider-gay_m.jpg

[d9d9d9]

Thursday 23 October 2008
Stefan Petzner, a former beauty journalist, was forced to step down from the helm of his far right-wing Austrian party shortly after announcing on Austrian radio that he and the notorious Joerg Haider, who died Oct. 11, had been lovers.


As I said, I'm not surprised at all.

I’m sure right-wing members of the forum here will have a hissy fit over your post… but truth sometimes hurts.

[mynameis]

Cheers!

http://images.theage.com.au/2008/10/23/242801/svAUSTRIA-420x0.jpg

Ain't love grand?
http://www.theage.com.au/world/austria-reels-as-haider-successor-reveals-their-gay-affair-20081023-57bz.html

[besides]

the original thread on this, with plenty of posts and arguments, different sides etc is here. it makes interesting reading: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38605 indeed i suggest a merger. besides.

[mynameis]

Slain politician wanted to be first gay Dutch PM

Pim Fortuyn's demise was as unorthodox as his rise. The anti-immigration populist soared to fame unexpectedly and died in a hail of bullets in a killing which shocked the nation.

The shaven-headed ex-sociology lecturer said it was his destiny to become the Netherlands' first openly gay prime minister.

He stormed to political prominence two months ago when his party won more than a third of seats on the council of the Netherlands' second city, Rotterdam and opinion polls showed he was on target to win at least 15 per cent of the vote in a general election on May 15.

Mr Fortuyn, 54, was shot dead outside a big media complex in Hilversum, 20 kilometres south-east of Amsterdam after giving a radio interview.

Six shots were fired, media reports said, and he suffered multiple wounds to the chest and neck.

Mr Fortuyn, brought up in a conservative Catholic family, angered the country's Muslims with his anti-Islamic rhetoric, sowing fears of a swing to right-wing extremism ahead of next week's elections with his call for zero-immigration.

After branding Islamic culture "backward", he was likened to France's defeated presidential hopeful, far-right leader Jean-Marie Le Pen and Austrian rightist Joerg Haider - comparisons he angrily rejected.

But the label stuck and political rivals began comparing him to right-wingers across Europe.

The rise of his "non-ideological, issue-based" party, the Lijst Pim Fortuyn, was meteoric. Pundits predicted his fledgling party could play a potentially pivotal role in forming a new right-of-centre coalition government.

Few could predict what was to happen to his party now with few other prominent or experienced politicians.

Some commentators said Fortuyn was the new face of Europe's hard right, others that he was a grass-roots populist unafraid to speak his mind in a liberal country dominated by consensus politics.

He travelled by chauffeur driven Daimler with two small dogs, wore sharp suits and saluted the party faithful dramatically when he was not smoking cigars at photo shoots.

On the anti-establishment fringe for years as a magazine columnist, Mr Fortuyn wanted to crack down on organised crime, reduce immigration, reintroduce compulsory military service, cut red tape and stave off major privatisations.

His outspoken and flamboyant style proved popular with voters disenchanted and some say simply bored and frustrated with eight years of a centre-left coalition in the prosperous Netherlands.

His opponents called him a racist and compared him to Mr Haider, whose party rules in Austria's coalition government.

"It's absolute nonsense. We have nothing in common with Joerg Haider. We reject all ultras: ultra left and ultra right. We are a new movement. Most of the voters are tired of the established political parties," a party spokesman said.

His party says crime and immigration have "got out of hand" and reject claims the party is xenophobic or extremist.

"I think 16 million Dutch is enough. The country is full," Mr Fortuyn said in a recent newspaper interview in which he made disparaging remarks about "Moroccan brats", said illegal immigrants should be sent home and called Islamic culture "backward".

His party said his comments were taken out of context and that Mr Fortuyn was urging Muslim immigrants to embrace the tolerant and liberal values of their new home.

"For Muslims as a homosexual, I am less than a pig. I am proud that in the Netherlands I can come out for my homosexuality and I'd like to keep it that way," he once remarked.

"If I had the legal means then I would say: Not one more Muslim will be allowed in," Mr Fortuyn said earlier this year in which he urged Muslim women to throw away their headscarves. His comments provoked a barrage of criticism.

His zero-immigration platform raised the political temperature in a country with Afro-Caribbean, Turkish and Moroccan minorities. Around 10 per cent of the Dutch population are of non-Western origin - nearly half of those are Muslims.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200205/s549180.htm

[mynameis]

Dutch Men On Trial For Deliberate HIV Transmission
Three men from Groningen, Netherlands, are on trial for deliberately infecting at least 12 other men with HIV, several news agencies reported. Hans Jurgens, 39, Peter Mulder, 50, and Wim Dekker, 49, allegedly advertised gay sex parties online, lured participants to their location, then drugged them, raped them and injected them with HIV-positive blood.

Prosecutors want the trio to be jailed for between eight and 15 years.

http://www.sfbaytimes.com/?sec=article&article_id=9291

A plot thickens...

[mynameis]

I had to post this it was hilarious and goes so well...not meant to offend only laugh. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWq0PDEiZoY