Do viruses exist?

[haukipesukone]

Me being more in home in the middle-ages where people believed in the soul and evil spirits I have a hard time comprehending many modern concepts, like modern science's explanation of illness.

What actual evidence there is that viruses cause disease? Maybe the reason we get sick is really evil spirits. Even if you the virus is something you can detect, it could still be a symptom of the influence of the spirit.

I've heard that there really is no cure for virus-based illness, is it true? That you have to let your body take care of the problem without medicines. If so, doesn't it mean doctors don't really have any idea what viruses are?

I know that bacteria also cause illness, but there are "good" and "bad" bacteria. But to me it seems more like imbalance. You have too much or too little of one kind of influence, which causes chi imbalance in your body and you get sick. I think that might be the explanation in Chinese medicine.


If what I'm saying doesn't make any sense feel free to ignore me. I'm just questioning commonly accepted things, because I don't understand them. Maybe it means I'm merely dumb, or that the thing we are taught is dumb.

[Anders Lindman]

I have heard experts saying that the HIV virus has never been isolated by science. And that the HIV virus may not even exist! :eek: The HIV tests doctors use only test for secondary effects, not the HIV virus itself. And that's not the only strange thing about the HIV virus. Other very prominent scientists say that the HIV-AIDS connection is not certain at all.


I know that bacteria also cause illness, but there are "good" and "bad" bacteria. But to me it seems more like imbalance. You have too much or too little of one kind of influence, which causes chi imbalance in your body and you get sick. I think that might be the explanation in Chinese medicine.


Hmm... Interesting idea. Bacteria may only be bad when they become too many (or even too few).

[rhydra]

I thought that the HIV virus has been captured on an electron microscope.

But the thing with HIV is that it doesn't actually kill the victim, it's the body's immune system that does that. It just causes the imune system to go haywire.

[Anders Lindman]

I thought that the HIV virus has been captured on an electron microscope.

But the thing with HIV is that it doesn't actually kill the victim, it's the body's immune system that does that. It just causes the imune system to go haywire.

That's another strange thing. When I searched for images of HIV viruses I only found very few actual photos, but many fancy 3D computer images of the HIV virus. To be fair, viruses are very tiny so it is perhaps difficult to get actual photos of them, but still.

[Anders Lindman]

Here is one of the few real photos of the HIV virus I found (from Wikipedia):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/HIV-budding-Color.jpg/190px-HIV-budding-Color.jpg

First I thought the pink blob was an HIV virus, but it's the tiny green dots that are HIV viruses. That's almost a fraudulent photo since it appears they have colored the big blob pink to make people think that that is an HIV virus. Suspicious.

[fransetter]

Me being more in home in the middle-ages where people believed in the soul and evil spirits I have a hard time comprehending many modern concepts, like modern science's explanation of illness.

What actual evidence there is that viruses cause disease? Maybe the reason we get sick is really evil spirits. Even if you the virus is something you can detect, it could still be a symptom of the influence of the spirit.



Make up your own mind!

http://www.beyondbooks.com/lif72/2c.asp

[checkmate]

Curious how before they actually gave this virus a name obituaries were always using "died of unknown long term illness". I think people were demanding answers from the medical community who in turn were putting pressure on Center for Infectious Diseases, so they eventually gave it a name. The only hope for our countries is to declassify every Government document and let the truth surface. We can't fight what we don't know.

[Anders Lindman]

Curious how before they actually gave this virus a name obituaries were always using "died of unknown long term illness". I think people were demanding answers from the medical community who in turn were putting pressure on Center for Infectious Diseases, so they eventually gave it a name. The only hope for our countries is to declassify every Government document and let the truth surface. We can't fight what we don't know.

You mean the HIV virus? One idea that just hit me is that the medical science community has been tricked to start doing massive research about a non-existing HIV virus. :D Maybe one should not joke about such serious matters. It could be what has happened though. The massive research generates discoveries that in themselves are valid, while the bottom truth is that there is no actual HIV virus. The scientists do research on separate issues while no one except perhaps some manipulators has the big picture. Research based on other research papers that themselves are based on other research, all of it just ideas based on previous research without a real foundation. :eek::D

[tracker]

do viruses exist ?
hell yes its just that today we call them polotitions and bankers .:D

[checkmate]

You mean the HIV virus? One idea that just hit me is that the medical science community has been tricked to start doing massive research about a non-existing HIV virus. :D Maybe one should not joke about such serious matters. It could be what has happened though. The massive research generates discoveries that in themselves are valid, while the bottom truth is that there is no actual HIV virus. The scientists do research on separate issues while no one except perhaps some manipulators have the big picture. Research based on other research papers that themselves are based on other research, all of it just ideas based on previous research without a real foundation. :eek::D

I don't know that it is HIV/AIDS but does the label really matter? I lean to a combination of intentionally induced toxins that create major breakdowns in our organs and immune systems. I do believe the majority of the medical community is ignorant of the cause and buys the disinformation. I think it goes back to when MDs started to become specialized and General Practioners died out. Governments and corporations pay for research and results are skewed for the outcome they want. Doctors buy the research papers published by the AMA and base their treatments accordingly.

One such induction that I suspect is vitamin K shots for infants as well as immunizations. Why did this become mandatory worldwide? When was it introduced and by whom? The World Health Organization is just another tool in my opinion.

[Anders Lindman]

I don't know that it is HIV/AIDS but does the label really matter? I lean to a combination of intentionally induced toxins that create major breakdowns in our organs and immune systems. I do believe the majority of the medical community is ignorant of the cause and buys the disinformation. I think it goes back to when MDs started to become specialized and General Practioners died out. Governments and corporations pay for research and results are skewed for the outcome they want. Doctors buy the research papers published by the AMA and base their treatments accordingly.

One such induction that I suspect is vitamin K shots for infants as well as immunizations. Why did this become mandatory worldwide? When was it introduced and by whom? The World Health Organization is just another tool in my opinion.

One problem is that scientists almost always are only experts on one particular and often narrow area of research. Few deal with the complete picture. This can lead to research that spins off on false tangents.

I'm a great fan of scientific research though, although there needs as I see it to be more focus on the overall picture.

Another problem is that pharma corporations have no real incentive to come up with actual cures. Instead they depend on people not being cured so that they can be given an endless and often increasing dose of pills and shots.

[madthumbs]

I have herpes. It's not a damned demon. ;)

[haukipesukone]

Make up your own mind!

http://www.beyondbooks.com/lif72/2c.asp

Thanks for the link. Have to read it.


I didn't expect this thread to birth as much discussion as it already has. Nice.

Yesterday I asked my Chinese medicine course (a very basic introductory course) teacher if Chinese medicine has the concept virus? From his cryptic response I deduced they don't have it. What western medicine calls a virus, Chinese medicine calls excess of (something).

I think it's an interesting topic. Viruses, and HIV.

I'm thinking viruses might be something like "dark matter". It doesn't exist, but scientists came up with to support their theory, because they were unable to discover the truth.

[madthumbs]

So please explain what herpes is.

[haukipesukone]

So please explain what herpes is.

Are you asking me?

I have no idea.