Michael Moore - for real?

[shodan]

US government trying to seize new Michael Moore film, says producer

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2007/190507Moore.htm

Whats everyone's take on Moore? I was pretty convinced that he's controlled opposition, but the above story is a very good piece of 'theatre' if thats what it is.

[auron]

I used to love Michael Moore years ago, and read all his books.

I can now say with conviction, that he is working for "them" It is what you call "controlled opporsition!" I have read all that guy's works - and i believe that he is a fraud!

[shodan]

Hi Auron, yep I think your right, I used to love moore too, millions still do:eek: .

I find it really unnerving that the whole things at that level of deception/sophistication. Real horror show.

[batavia]

I like Michael Moore.
I loved his TV-nation series, years ago.
I like his play with words to movies and books.
Like Stupid White Man (his book); the phrase is from the movie Dead Man by Jim Jarmush featuring Johnny Depp (fantastic movie).
Fahrenheit 911 refers to Fahrenheit 451 (I don't know the exact number; it is the temperature when paper start burning); book from Asimov (if I remember it correctly).

So he likes Jim jarmusch movies, Asimov books, he is from a blue color background; he has lived through an area full of workers for the car industry and witnessed the downfall and that the government didn't care.
Ofcourse that made him think: something is just not right and what can I do about it.

With the release of Fahrenheit 911 I heard people saying "Michael Moore is doing exactly the same of what he shows", namely: showing one side of the story; he is manupalative or something like that and than the discussion stops. The reason for his movies are (I think) to get a discussion going.
I was amazed by that. My opinion is: I better hear two sides (preferably more) of one story than one; the first we get bombarded through the media, the second the vision of Michael Moore. What is wrong with that?

As long as I don't see him making that awfull handsignal he has my sympathy.:rolleyes:

I will try to see Sicko a.s.a.p.
I already saw a fragment this evening and it was amazing again.
A man in USA accidently cuts off 2 tops of his fingers; the middelfinger and the ringfinger. He is not insured so he has to pay the surgery by himself. Now he has to make a choice; the middelfinger restoring costs 30.000 usd or the ringfinger which costs 12.000 usd.....

They should forbid the word CARE in Healthcare and name it Healthcompany instead.

[auron]

I mean, if he so "anti" George Bush, Why then does he not discuss the issue of 9/11, when there is so much evidence to say this was all set up?

[shodan]

I like Michael Moore.
I loved his TV-nation series, years ago.
I like his play with words to movies and books.
Like Stupid White Man (his book); the phrase is from the movie Dead Man by Jim Jarmush featuring Johnny Depp (fantastic movie).
Fahrenheit 911 refers to Fahrenheit 451 (I don't know the exact number; it is the temperature when paper start burning); book from Asimov (if I remember it correctly).

So he likes Jim jarmusch movies, Asimov books, he is from a blue color background; he has lived through an area full of workers for the car industry and witnessed the downfall and that the government didn't care.
Ofcourse that made him think: something is just not right and what can I do about it.

With the release of Fahrenheit 911 I heard people saying "Michael Moore is doing exactly the same of what he shows", namely: showing one side of the story; he is manupalative or something like that and than the discussion stops. The reason for his movies are (I think) to get a discussion going.
I was amazed by that. My opinion is: I better hear two sides (preferably more) of one story than one; the first we get bombarded through the media, the second the vision of Michael Moore. What is wrong with that?

As long as I don't see him making that awfull handsignal he has my sympathy.

I will try to see Sicko a.s.a.p.
I already saw a fragment this evening and it was amazing again.
A man in USA accidently cuts off 2 tops of his fingers; the middelfinger and the ringfinger. He is not insured so he has to pay the surgery by himself. Now he has to make a choice; the middelfinger restoring costs 30.000 usd or the ringfinger which costs 12.000 usd.....

They should forbid the word CARE in Healthcare and name it Healthcompany instead.

Very well put. you've got me back on the fence. There's also the point that there's an in-between band of people who are not ready for the whole truth of whats going on (its a biggie after all!) and need to be eased in to it all. It may be the case that he's avoiding the 911 stuff to stay online with the majority. I guess the question is, if this is the case, is there enough time to wait?

[cowboy]

He is definitley 100% controlled opposition.

[montag]

He may indeed be controled opposition but he can also be a good introduction or stepping stone in to the conspiracy, as long as you don't get caught in that particular sheep pen. Same goes for Noam Chomsky.

[i_am]

my take on Michael Moore is that he is genuine but........

He is a bit of a show pony and only goes as deep as the level of HIS understanding, which to most of us here, is rather basic.

Having said that, his material is a big wake up for most people. I can remember discussing Stupid White Men with a group of people who had never been exposed to any of this. I was able to expand on a lot of the things that had blown their mind, stuff that I had known for years. It did open their eyes and I was able to point them in the direction of more indepth stuff.

He is a starting point. Perhaps that is his task? Unfortunately he is stuck there because the rest is still beyond his comprehension.

My opinion :p

[auron]

He may indeed be controled opposition but he can also be a good introduction or stepping stone in to the conspiracy, as long as you don't get caught in that particular sheep pen. Same goes for Noam Chomsky.

Most certainly mate i agree with you. But I'm still left with a bad taste in my mouth after reading Michael Moore.

[shodan]

my take on Michael Moore is that he is genuine but........

He is a bit of a show pony and only goes as deep as the level of HIS understanding, which to most of us here, is rather basic.

Having said that, his material is a big wake up for most people. I can remember discussing Stupid White Men with a group of people who had never been exposed to any of this. I was able to expand on a lot of the things that had blown their mind, stuff that I had known for years. It did open their eyes and I was able to point them in the direction of more indepth stuff.

He is a starting point. Perhaps that is his task? Unfortunately he is stuck there because the rest is still beyond his comprehension.

My opinion

This is my point, I guess it involves more research on my behalf, there may well be information out there that makes things clearer, but the above comment is how I've seen Michael Moore up till lately. Disinfo is certainly creating a counter-culture of paranoia as well.

and him not dealing with 911 is still a worry to me.

[auron]

He is a starting point. Perhaps that is his task? Unfortunately he is stuck there because the rest is still beyond his comprehension.

My opinion :p

Hmm, just pondering on that, maybe your right. I was big into Michael Moore years ago, and if it wasn't for reading his books i wouldn't be the person i am now. It was reading his books that lead me into the "heavier" subjects. So perhaps i should take back what i say about him being a controlled guy. I don't know, but i really do hope he is genuine. But after researching everything over the years, i still have a funny feeling about him. :)

[armoured saint]

What is it about Michael Moore that people consider sinister? Is it because he wont announce that negative extraterrestrials run the world, or is it because he wont just spit it out and cry out that the Elite are Baal or Satanic worshippers?

Perhaps he has a different style or tact that doesn't involve making wild or irrational statements without proper evidence and risk of his credibility. You know, most people are very busy in the world chasing the money and will shy away from lengthy documentations that might prove 9/11 was allowed to proceed by sinister organisations and etc. etc..

Perhaps Micheel Moore doesn't want to tug on the rope too hard and risk losing his audience.

[limelady]

There is no doubt Michael Moore is 'light-weight' (compared to our standards at least), but whether or not people believe he is controlled interests me little because I stand back and ask myself these questions....

"Has this man done any good"?

My answer has to be "yes"

"Has this man done any harm"?

My answer has to be "not that I can detect".

Sure he isn't presenting ALL the evidence, but he has been an amazing starting point for many people who needed easing into this stuff gently and may not have found their way there if it had not been for Michael Moore.

As long as people don't get stuck with any one "guru" all information is worthwhile in one way or another.

End of story for me really.

[shodan]

Ok, this is good, lots of comments I agree with and I'm looking forward to 'Sicko' now, when before the thread I wasn't bothered. :)

[earthseed]

I think a lot of us have started out with Michael but were smart enough to keep on moving. He never answers anything in his films or books he just points the finger at the other side. Also he ignores a ton of research and interviews with insiders that would answer the questions he poses in his work. And yet the man is considered to be very out there for even doing that!

[rossus]

miki moore also helped me a little in waking up.

his message may not have been the most detailed or the most correct,
but this is probably what makes him so good. he doesn't scare people by talking about reptilians or satanic government.

back in the day, our whole school got to see the 9/11 movie in cinema.

[father ted]

I think he's a phoney.
MMoore only points the obvious in things most of us already agree with. He leaves holes in his arguments that aren't hard to argue against, conveniantly.

Bowling for columbine did do damage, it was total propaganda, and he also drives the zionist "don't you dare mention the jews" agenda, in some of his previous work.

[batavia]

I think he's a phoney.
MMoore only points the obvious in things most of us already agree with. He leaves holes in his arguments that aren't hard to argue against, conveniantly.

Bowling for columbine did do damage, it was total propaganda, and he also drives the zionist "don't you dare mention the jews" agenda, in some of his previous work.

I am not defending Michael Moore and I think everyone has his own look on him, due to our own circumstances and experiences.

But..:)
Father Ted you say "most of us already agree with..", there are so many people outside who never read or seen these kind of things and there MM is perhaps shocking people out of their comfortzone. And therefore alone I like it so much.
Bowling for Columbine: when I saw that; I still don't know what to make of it; is it good for people to all have guns; is it wrong? Knowing what we think we know, I sure would like to have a gun! Because I am still not convinced that my "lovemachine" will help me against 4D bad reptoids, and as a matter of fact I don't know of a 3D gun would help either? So Bowling for Columbine was also FUNNY and I still don't have an answer, and that is o.k. too.
I like David very much and Michael also, they both have HUMOR in opening up these very bizar, hard truths. and that is sooo important.

quoto Earthseed: "He never answers anything in his films or books he just points the finger at the other side. ..."
I agree and think that is good, everyone makes their own judgement.

And just because he is not talking about 911, reptoids or zionism, it doesn't mean he is hiding something.

[tru3]

I am not defending Michael Moore and I think everyone has his own look on him, due to our own circumstances and experiences.

But..:)
Father Ted you say "most of us already agree with..", there are so many people outside who never read or seen these kind of things and there MM is perhaps shocking people out of their comfortzone. And therefore alone I like it so much.
Bowling for Columbine: when I saw that; I still don't know what to make of it; is it good for people to all have guns; is it wrong? Knowing what we think we know, I sure would like to have a gun! Because I am still not convinced that my "lovemachine" will help me against 4D bad reptoids, and as a matter of fact I don't know of a 3D gun would help either? So Bowling for Columbine was also FUNNY and I still don't have an answer, and that is o.k. too.
I like David very much and Michael also, they both have HUMOR in opening up these very bizar, hard truths. and that is sooo important.

quoto Earthseed: "He never answers anything in his films or books he just points the finger at the other side. ..."
I agree and think that is good, everyone makes their own judgement.

And just because he is not talking about 911, reptoids or zionism, it doesn't mean he is hiding something.

i had always been an mm fan, until i read the 'columbine thread' a while back. i began to have second thoughts.

i will share this: i saw him on the daily show, right after farenheit was released, so it's been a while.

just as the interviews over, he and jon stewart are making small talk, and moore, apropos of nothing, says to jon, "bush is a lizard, you know". stewart just kind of laughed like it was a joke.

and moore turns to the camera and says, "no... he really is."

i just about dropped my bowl of ice cream in my lap! :D

[phoenixchilde]

Whats everyone's take on Moore? I was pretty convinced that he's controlled opposition, but the above story is a very good piece of 'theatre' if thats what it is.

I don't think he's controlled opposition. I think he's too stupid. I mean, in Farenheit 911, he's going around Washington DC asking the congressmen to sign up their kids for the army. I mean how stupid is that? No one has the legal right to sign up their kids for military service. The kids sign themselves up.

On the other hand, the stupidity might just be another aspect of control to make all the lefties look stupid. Regardless, he is a bit stupid.

[auron]

i had always been an mm fan, until i read the 'columbine thread' a while back. i began to have second thoughts.

i will share this: i saw him on the daily show, right after farenheit was released, so it's been a while.

just as the interviews over, he and jon stewart are making small talk, and moore, apropos of nothing, says to jon, "bush is a lizard, you know". stewart just kind of laughed like it was a joke.

and moore turns to the camera and says, "no... he really is."

i just about dropped my bowl of ice cream in my lap! :D

Really? I'd love to see that! Do you happen to have a link mate? :)

[graflok]

Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" is a crock of disinformation and a propaganda piece for gun control. It contained many lies.

Moore is not on our side.

[father ted]

Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" is a crock of disinformation and a propaganda piece for gun control. It contained many lies.

Moore is not on our side.

I mean, when will people wake up to this? He spent how much time and effort on farenheit? and on interviews refuses to go into the real facts! Columbine was just plain insult and propaganda, and the guy wins an oscar for farenheit! Oh come on, take a hint.


will share this: i saw him on the daily show, right after farenheit was released, so it's been a while.

just as the interviews over, he and jon stewart are making small talk, and moore, apropos of nothing, says to jon, "bush is a lizard, you know". stewart just kind of laughed like it was a joke.

and moore turns to the camera and says, "no... he really is."

That's interesting, but then what's more interesting is that he never mentions them elsewhere, especially given what he's supposed to do. I suppose he knew that no one will take him seriously, but for him to have said that, he would have had to have met the guy:eek:

Notice how he's got one of those fixed stare, those eyes.

[dondaz]

Ah Michael Moore, he's a stupid white man! Sold his soul to the highest bidder!

He, he, he. I didn't know people still believed in him!

Is there nothing we cannot be made to believe?

Darren

[shodan]

When I saw Fahrenheit, it was the only place where the 2000 vote rig was addressed, and the footage of Bush before addressing the nation, and the horrors of the Iraq bombing campaign without background music or patronising commentary from our beloved talking heads in the mainstream media.

Yes there was/is much better info on the Internet, but the masses are generally not researching.

I thought Fahrenheit was great for raising questions that were not being asked elsewhere in the mainstream. If nobody else is doing it in the mainstream, then its all there is, however flawed. It's either these guys or no-one.

If Fahrenheit etc are disinfo, then its disinfo for people like us who are following the agenda intensely. For the masses, I can't see how it can be construed as anything but information they wouldn’t normally see.

You could argue that it just creates an argument that’s a distraction, and nothing good comes out of it, but you got to start somewhere and I certainly had a reaction to Fahrenheit, and that reaction played a part in leading me closer to the truth, Icke etc. It certainly didn’t stop any of that journey, it fuelled it.

[roxanna222]

For me when the farinheight came out it rang a bell in my head. Later a loving friend showed me other works of impact, much more indepth and compelling. Works from Icke and so on. I was in a receptive mode for it all. I "knew" so to speak. Somethings you just know. As for Moore and is he or does he help in anyway to open doors I cant speak for all, but perhaps for the person going from next to nothing, in as far as information on these subjects goes then perhaps it can be a catalyst and lead them to and question from which they can do their own research and find more information. Maybe he is ok. Perhaps hes limited. Afraid. Perhaps a disinformant if hes the latter then not a very good one I think. His findings some I find curious and doubtful. Other aspects of him such as his style such as "getting in your face" I like and find entertaining. In synthesis neither good nor bad here nor there. Bless

[tru3]

I mean, when will people wake up to this? He spent how much time and effort on farenheit? and on interviews refuses to go into the real facts! Columbine was just plain insult and propaganda, and the guy wins an oscar for farenheit! Oh come on, take a hint.




That's interesting, but then what's more interesting is that he never mentions them elsewhere, especially given what he's supposed to do. I suppose he knew that no one will take him seriously, but for him to have said that, he would have had to have met the guy:eek:

Notice how he's got one of those fixed stare, those eyes.

gore won an oscar too. ouch!

these are all really good points ted. it could be he was freaked out, bought out, sold out, passed out.:confused:

can't find that vid, either. i'll keep digging...

[graflok]

There is a propaganda tactic that is currently in use in which a person poses as
a critic of something but also acts crazy.

The idea of this tactic is that it's supposed to make the critic (and therefore all
critics) appear crazy. Normally, it isn't used much. I presume this is because it
is risky, as people may simply accept what the "kook" is saying as the truth. It
appears to me that this tactic is only used as a last resort.

Moore's appearance and antics are supposed to characterize him as a kook in
the eyes of the public. Therefore anything he says and anyone else who says
anything like what he says will supposedly be ignored by the public. This would
include Moore's comments about Bush being a lizard, etc.

But, the bad guys are not nearly as clever as they think they are and they often
shoot themselves in the foot. The fact is that this tactic often backfires and
instead of people rejecting what the "kook" says, they accept it. It is a really
stupid tactic that is rarely effective and is a sign of desperation.

(I was once involved with a group that started out being a "whistle-blower" type
organization. However, the group was infiltrated by the "whistle-blowees" and
this tactic was used to try to discredit them. Before I left I got to see it first
hand. And, lots of other stuff too.)

[quintal]

Fahrenheit 911 refers to Fahrenheit 451 (I don't know the exact number; it is the temperature when paper start burning); book from Asimov (if I remember it correctly).


the author of "fahrenheit 451" is ray bradbury.
come to think of it, fahrenheit is a german word.

[ssyx]

Wow quintal, did you read all the way back to this topic? Thats a lot man.

He may indeed be controled opposition but he can also be a good introduction or stepping stone in to the conspiracy, as long as you don't get caught in that particular sheep pen. Same goes for Noam Chomsky.
Anyway, I agree with this from montag.

[quintal]

Wow quintal, did you read all the way back to this topic? Thats a lot man.
Anyway, I agree with this from montag.

lol just 3 pages. Some times i have read 40-pages threads. That's a lot, hours of reading.
I'm liking this DI forum, plenty of diverse folks, most of them i find interesting.

About Moore, every popularizer is like that : part liar/deceiver. I said the same on the Alex jones thread. You cant reach the masses if you dont dumb down the signal. The "real deal" of researchers will never reach the masses, they're too hot for them.
From there it's a fine line between being mostly a deceiver or mostly an awakener. The guy I always think about as a big phoney deceiver, yet great popularizer is aleister crowley. Yet he's the first author of magic i ever read, so i owe him my discovery of the field.

I'm amazed at the report of Moore commenting about Bush being a lizard, though. Seems Michael is way deeper than he first shows.

[thirdwave]

I think its allot to do with money for him as well... he will not go into the 9/11 thing because he does not want to risk sales coming down... and does not want to risk loosing his big name....

[helloperator]

With his status as, I don't know, a bit of a novelty...people will go see his stuff...he should say something about 911.

He was so soft on the issue in his Fahreneit 911 doco.

[woghd]

Moore is controlled opposition. Period.
Never did like him.

His movies did such a one-sided hatchet job on Bush, that it was always obvious he was just a puppet.

Archangel