NO2ID= Utterly blimmin useless! [Archive] - David Icke's Official Forums

john white

20-05-2007, 12:24 AM

Yo. Here in the UK the "Official" resistance to ID cards and the Technotronic State is www.NO2ID.co.uk

Just how much integrity, credibility and all round usefullness does this citizens resitance movement have?

Judge for yourself: I hereby present three posts from Illusions made over the space of four hours this evening

Check this vile peice of filth out...

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/families/article1788169.ece

Got me so steamed I stomped off to NO2ID over it and found them worse than ever!. Hats off to BVL for bothering with them

Made a thread. it wont last, so heres a copy

Title: Would a chip help to keep my child safe? asks the Times

Watcha. I see we are still not talking about chips round here

Thats OK, keeps NO2ID respectable. Meanwhile, the agenda rolls on

From the Times. Maybe thats worth paying attention to? (though I hit Dave Gould right between the eyes with all the corporate and academic proof of chipping capabilities last year)

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/families/article1788169.ece

Professor Kevin Warwick, who developed the technology that made it possible for the first child in Britain to volunteer to be “chipped” in 2002 (ROFL! If you believe that, hes a front man, LH) – after the murders of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman – has been bombarded with e-mails over the past few days from parents desperate to keep tabs on their children. As we talk, another e-mail drops into his inbox from a mother of two young children who says that she is deeply anxious about Madeleine’s disappearance and wants to know more about the chip technology.

It works by sending a signal via a mobile-phone network to a computer that can identify the child’s location on an electronic map.

Guardians running the same line. So in the last three months, thats kids, the elderly, the poor, the insane, the criminal, the immigrant... trackable chips, trackable chips, trackable chips etc...

Easily influenced parents have their five year old chipped today... 13 years later an adult who can be tracked anywhere on the planet and for whom the very concept of personal freedom was stolen when he/she was a child blinks in the sunlight and smells the roses...

See you in moderated topics! :wink:

Had a nibble: knowing NO2Id as I do I wouldnt trust them not to delete the thread, so i'll post this here for safekeeping...

Capability does not imply intent.

sending a signal via a mobile-phone network
So it needs
a) a mobile phone or whatever
b) to be in a signal area
c) for the two devices to be close enough to communicate

And STILL nothing to do with ID cards and/or the NIR.

This won't be imposed by the state - it will be cynical commercial opportunism.

Well being as I had a whole load of bother last year with denial of capability.... we'll take capability as proven then shall we?

Intent...whenever technology has the capability, someone has the Intent to exploit it... and the implantable chip tracks all the way back to the heart of the military industrial complex. Trust away

Needs a mobile phone? No it doesnt, that would be the whole point

In the signal area? True... where can't you get a signal these days? And thats before the spread of Wi-Fi... which also covers point 3

Nothing to do with Cards? Of course not, cards are just there for people to focus open. Nothing to do with the database? Pull the other one: every database is to do with the database

Not coming in through the State? Of course not, that is, in fact, the very point I've been making here on my visits: focus only on a peice of paper in front of us called an Act, and we will lose our freedom to multiple corporate pirranha bites from the side. I've been saying that since before there was an Act

Conclusion?

This struggle is far far bigger than a single peice of legislation from the bunch of Fabian frontmen we call "The Labour Party": and this campaign's continuing refusal to find some way to discuss/debate/investigate/expose what the Times is currently glibbly gossiping about in its Women's supplement is a travesty of affairs

As JW says its time for people to waken from their imposed slumber and realise what the true agenda is. The true agenda is that people don't want to think for themselves. They are happy to be asleep sheep. I'm beginning to wonder why bother with trying to get people to look past the controlled conditioned media. It just seems that people do not have the capacity to think let alone believe that there is manipulation going on. All they want is to watch enders and read heat mag while stuffing their faces with toxic crap ad infinitum.

the heart of the military industrial complex

Which has no heart. A shoal of fish does not have a single brain just because they move the same way.

Needs a mobile phone? No it doesnt, that would be the whole point

And it communicates with the mobile phone network by magic. The transceiver/aerial/battery would be too big for an implant so a separate external "thing" would be needed even if it was not "a mobile phone".

where can't you get a signal these days?

Loads of places.

and we will lose our freedom to multiple corporate pirranha bites

You could always stop buying their crap.

And thats the lot: thread dumped and locked

NO2ID shows it's uses: and they are sweet FA

auron

20-05-2007, 12:27 AM

ID cards will be introduced - To mass rebellion!

Fuck the NWO! :)

11kushna11

20-05-2007, 03:40 AM

Unfortunately I think you'll find most people receptive to the ID card once we've had it drilled into us by the media and spoonfed the potential repurcussions of NOT having it. The majority will be indifferent to it, accepting it readily and without question. I don't really know how we can prevent this once the government bring it into play. You'd need a LOT of people to say no actively and continuously before we could make any kind of counterstrike against the idea.

Count me in though :D

john white

20-05-2007, 03:45 AM

Total non-co-operation. No BS

tinmenace

20-05-2007, 03:48 AM

Oh, they might have to do a serious 9/11 on y'alls asses before you comply :D Ok, not funny and no disrespect meant to the victims, but you get my drift...

As you can see with the Americans, it's got them nicely in their subservient places. :rolleyes:

lookfar

20-05-2007, 03:55 AM

I agree, most people I speak to about this are of the opinion that "if you've got nothing to hide, then what's the problem?" They're not interested in hearing about the more sinister implications.

We didn't have an option with the chips in our passports & don't think we'll be given an option on this either!!:(

john white

20-05-2007, 03:55 AM

Well we've had 7/7, multiple bogus terror fear plots (mix-yer-explosives in an aircraft bog), Police walking away untouched from tube train assasinations, dawn raids, smear campaigns ("terror suspects"=peadophile child pornographers or rapists, thats played a lot: even Demenzies was smeared as a rapist after his brains were smattered over a tube car), law after law after law getting passed... and thats just the warm up

limelady

20-05-2007, 07:13 AM

Anyone know how to bring about overnight enlightenment to the masses?

I reckon thats about what its going to take to prevent the people from having to experience the 'getting what's coming to them'.

fantana

20-05-2007, 07:15 AM

The fight against the New World Order is an unwinnable war.

So, don't fight it. Just observe it.

Does anyone know the purpose of the New World Order?

auron

20-05-2007, 07:25 AM

We didn't have an option with the chips in our passports & don't think we'll be given an option on this either!!:(

I've read that if you put your passport in the microwave for 10 seconds, it totally fucks up the RFID chip. Let them try tracking you down then! :)

peter19

20-05-2007, 12:21 PM

dont they scan your RFID chip when you are going away?. stuff like this though it needs people to rebel and just simple not do it, "compliance is acceptance". i hope to think that im not going to get an i.d card and when me passport runs out not get a new one but if push comes to shove then who knows.

it should be easy to sell microchips to the people now its like icke says what theyll do is target alot of kids getting abducted (which they seem to be doing) and then put it out sutly that if you dont get your child a microchip you are not a good mother and are not fit to be a parent ect. people could be pier pressured to get the chip just like they are to fit in and be "normal".

tru3

20-05-2007, 03:06 PM

Professor Kevin Warwick, who developed the technology that made it possible for the first child in Britain to volunteer to be “chipped” in 2002 (ROFL! If you believe that, hes a front man, LH) – after the murders of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman – has been bombarded with e-mails over the past few days from parents desperate to keep tabs on their children. As we talk, another e-mail drops into his inbox from a mother of two young children who says that she is deeply anxious about Madeleine’s disappearance and wants to know more about the chip technology.

3 Year Old Isaiah Vargas Kidnapped in Mesa, AZ (UPDATE: Found Deceased)
3 year old Isaiah Vargas from Mesa, AZ has been kidnapped from the parking lot of his apartment complex near McKellips Road and Mesa Drive on Thursday around 9:45 p.m. Three African-American men are believed to be involved in the kidnapping. The suspects got out of a green VW Jetta.

No Amber Alert has been issued by the police as they claim that this case does not meet all the requirements. This is something that we will never understand why children are put at risk and exclusions are put on Ambers. One would think this is about the safety of children. Police are stating that the boy is missing and in danger.
http://missingexploited.com/2007/03/31/3-year-old-isaiah-vargas-kidnapped-in-mesa-az/

6-5-2007 - Portugal: 3-year-old British Girl Kidnapped in Algarve

This isn't easy to write for several reasons. For starters, there's too much conflicting information and finding the truth is impossible. This part is true. Three-year-old Madeleine McCann was on holiday in the Algarve, staying at the Praia da Luz resort. For reasons unknown, her parents, both doctors, Gerald and Kate McCann, left Maddie and her two-year old twin siblings alone in their room while they dined a short distance away. It's been reported over and over the parents checked on their children every 30 minutes and had a view of their bedroom from the restaurant, but other articles refute this.

http://www.brendastardom.com/arch.asp?ArchID=1111

p-r-s

more media attention focused on younger and younger abductees. first adolescents, now toddlers. :mad:

john white

22-05-2007, 04:36 AM

Thanks everyone for your replies

Just for fun:

Who reckons NO2ID is OK? And who reckons NO2ID should not be lightly trusted?

1 2 free

22-05-2007, 09:13 AM

I've always suspected NO2ID is controlled opposition which is why I never signed up to them. One of the giveaways was when they told people to get new passports to avoid ID cards. When the poll tax came into play in the UK enough people refused to pay (including famously David Icke) which meant the courts were jammed up with 'refusniks' and the poll tax had to be dropped. By encouraging people to buy new passports they're limiting the number of people jamming up the courts once ID cards come in therefore increasing the chance that ID cards become a permanant reality. It's highly suspect.

truthseeker1980

22-05-2007, 03:34 PM

It's the same as the petition on the downing street website to stop all of us getting chipped. They are laughable, it didn't work with the new satnav monitor car tax plans which had far more signatures than they needed to stop it happening, so it aint going to happen with any site against it. the government/illuminati dont even listen when they put a petition on their own site.

BUT

There is a way we can fight the NWO, a very effective way. But it's not going to be possible until a lot more people are awoken to the plans and what is really going on as they will not agree with it to make a stand otherwise.

A mass week/month long strike of almost every single person would cripple the country/continent/world and they would have to listen, this is not possible at the moment, as there aren't enough people concerned about ID cards, masts, poisoning of food/water, spraying of the sky and propoganda on the laughable cartoon like media we call news.

But hopefully before the plans are orchestrated a few more like minded people will have surfaced. Hundreth monkey and all that, we can only hope that the mass awakening really starts accelerating, anyone got any ideas of how to push this along a little?

john white

22-05-2007, 04:09 PM

I agree truth seeker, down tools is the way: and "how to help it along" is simply keep getting out information, and practising communication skills as much as we can to be better messengers

When Fox News is forced to concede the inexorable spread of "911 truth virus" (their terms) (for example) we can be sure that our outreach efforts to each other are never wasted

The MSM would never concede such a thing unless the developing reality on the ground was forcing them to: ID card/chip resistance is no different

auron

22-05-2007, 04:12 PM

I agree. 9/11 when fully exposed to the masses, will bring this entire house of cards falling down.

avatar

22-05-2007, 04:22 PM

I've read that if you put your passport in the microwave for 10 seconds, it totally fucks up the RFID chip. Let them try tracking you down then! :)

...or a Neodymium magnet ;)

lookfar

22-05-2007, 05:31 PM

...or a Neodymium magnet ;)

Hi Av

Thanks for the tip :) Has this been proven?

avatar

22-05-2007, 05:47 PM

Hi Av

Thanks for the tip :) Has this been proven?

Well they disable military implants and Walmart RFIDs quite easily. A good quality small one that is still very cheap will mess up your monitor, HDD, cell phone, iPod, Pacemaker.. you get the picture.

I have a rack of Neos and I have to be very careful with them.

Do a search on neodymium+rfid.

lookfar

22-05-2007, 05:57 PM

Well they disable military implants and Walmart RFIDs quite easily. A good quality small one that is still very cheap will mess up your monitor, HDD, cell phone, iPod, Pacemaker.. you get the picture.

I have a rack of Neos and I have to be very careful with them.

Do a search on neodymium+rfid.

Great stuff, thanks for that Av!! Guess what I'm gonna be buying myself, hehe!!;) :p

avatar

22-05-2007, 06:03 PM

king

23-05-2007, 03:23 AM

Anyone know how to bring about overnight enlightenment to the masses?

I reckon thats about what its going to take to prevent the people from having to experience the 'getting what's coming to them'.

MAYBE yelling a line like this would do:

"HEY ASSHOLE, YOUR ASS IS NEXT, UNLESS YOU REFUSE <insert subject> NOW"

but, somehow i do not think that it will work....

mases are too dumbed down, worse than sheep....

lookfar

23-05-2007, 11:48 AM

Hi Lookfar :)

I recommend the 1/2" diameter if you are going to get some, I got greedy and like any boy wanted the big ones. I got the 1" x 1/4" thinking that was still small but they are too much and a wee bit dangerous. IE> within 6-8 inches they will attract and snap together very fast and its not funny if any skin or flesh gets in the way. Recommended for the Big Brother Technotronic Era though thats for sure.

Hi Av :)

Thanks again for your advice, I will definitely get the smaller ones as they do sound rather powerful!!:)

I have one concern about this though & this is from talking to someone about it last night. If I do disable my lovely chip, is it gonna stop me from being able to travel? Hmmm I need to check that out first... don't wanna be turning up at the airport & being refused cos that would really piss me off!!:(

celtic isis

23-05-2007, 11:52 AM

celtic isis

23-05-2007, 11:53 AM

baron von lotsov

23-05-2007, 05:56 PM

Total non-co-operation. No BS

That is one of the NO2ID main strategies when push comes to shove. Even Joanna Lumley said live on a major dross chat show a while back that they had better start getting her cell ready because she isn't having one either.

Anyway, there is even a woman from the BBC on there and she is in no way a typical BBC dolly bird news reporter and completely clued up on things.

It's called infiltration and playing the system at its own game but choosing your rules and not theirs. That brings us back to the original point, there must be total non-cooperation. These people are going to loose this one and they know it. Why do you think they have delayed it so much and kept so quiet on the subject for months now?

the norseman

23-05-2007, 06:44 PM

NO2ID is definately controlled opposition.

The ID card will come to pass unless people make a concerted effort to stop the policy now. The only way to do that is by mass cohesion. People in the so called know like us have a duty to start informing the masses on these issues. This has to be done is a systematic way and in a way that people can understand. I am sometimes sick of reading posts on this and other forums about the way to beat the NWO agenda is to "not put out any negative energy", "imagine your reality where this is not happening and it will cease", "take a magic mushroom" and other nonsense because if they think that these lines of thought will actually do anything then they really are in a dream world - anyone that hears this who has not had the benefit of researching for themselves and layering their knowledge in the way that we have will be instantly turned away from the truth movement - actual physical change / opposition has to be organised to prevent this and other policies that further encroach on our now limited freedoms. This is done by groups of like minded "enlightened" people forming "think groups" and actually forming an information machine that the masses can understand to oppose the NWO. It is often said in politics (in Iceland) that the reason there is a shit government is because the opposition is shit - we as an opposition to the NWO are shit hence more and more policies being brought about with 99% of people not battering an eyelid.

People have been fed and sold more propaganda than ever hence most people not really caring whether the ID bill comes to fruition or not. The pushing forward of the ID card agenda is more aggressive than many people think. The absurd immigration polices in western europe and the so called UK "bumbled asylum" policy is all there to bring this about just to name a few examples. It is coming unless people rise up on their hind legs and say enough is enough collectively and educate as to the real reasons and this requires group effort and moving out of comfort zones. Print flyers, tell friends / aquaintances, speak publicly and read and write profusely to make sure you are thoroughly educated in all these matters.

Informing the masses will not be easy and many people that dare to speak up are ridiculed or simply ignored - don't forget that all those out there trying to inform have a lot of competition. Most people are too tied up in the world of hello magazine, celebrity TV voting shite and soap operas. The minds are closed due to lack of exercise, interlectual pursuits, spirituality and overdosed on neurotoxins and food additives. Society has been sufficiently dumbed down for ID cards and even chipping to be brought about.

The only way to counteract this is through collective effort on our parts to educate.

The Noresman.

auron

23-05-2007, 07:00 PM

Nice to see you back Norseman. :)

baron von lotsov

23-05-2007, 08:17 PM

NO2ID is definately controlled opposition.

The Noresman.

It's easy to say that isn't it and you are certainly going to get some agreement from people because in a way you are putting your beliefs above them. It's like saying I'm better than you, in effect, so the lowest common denominator instinct will find that notion quite tacky (in the sticky sense of the word).

What is more challenging is to substantiate your view with facts. NO2ID is made up of a number of people and I know each quite well and that includes Phil who is in overall control of things because he was elected by the people at the time. Now to make your accusation stick a little better maybe you could start naming names and be specific, tell us where they have shown themselves to be controlled and by whom. If you rely solely on the fact they delete threads on microchips then that is a little shaky considering there are reasons for this. I need something a bit more concrete so I'm all ears.

auron

23-05-2007, 08:25 PM

john white

23-05-2007, 08:38 PM

It's easy to say that isn't it and you are certainly going to get some agreement from people because in a way you are putting your beliefs above them. It's like saying I'm better than you, in effect, so the lowest common denominator instinct will find that notion quite tacky (in the sticky sense of the word).

What is more challenging is to substantiate your view with facts. NO2ID is made up of a number of people and I know each quite well and that includes Phil who is in overall control of things because he was elected by the people at the time. Now to make your accusation stick a little better maybe you could start naming names and be specific, tell us where they have shown themselves to be controlled and by whom. If you rely solely on the fact they delete threads on microchips then that is a little shaky considering there are reasons for this. I need something a bit more concrete so I'm all ears.

Baron: I'm not suggesting NO2ID is "controlled opposition" (as in an intelligence front or some such): I would never claim such a thing without definitive proof. I also am well aware of Phil Booth's positive reputation, and can attest that when I was discussing the chip issue on NO2ID last summer (the threads having long been deleted now), Phil Booth was a voice of rationality

However, I am asking on this thread for people to share their feelings about NO2ID, and I am suggesting that at the moment, NO2ID's policies are "blimmin useless": not least because it is no longer possible to ask questions or debate those policies on the NO2ID site: its moderation has become severely controlled: that is indisputable

On that basis, it seems fair comment to observe that:

1) The wider issue of human sovereignty without justification to the state, and the effect of emergent technology on that sovereignty, of which the ID Card is merely an example, have been condensed by NO2ID into a far more limited opposition to a specific piece of legislation, that the campaign has already failed to prevent moving from a Bill to an Act

2) NO2ID have interpreted that brief into reflex censoring and removal of information regarding emergent ID technology, even when such information is being freely reported in the mainstream media!

3) Therefore, NO2ID is failing to gain and retain the support of its natural constituency, because it is failing to reflect their concerns and interests

Yes, the issue is wider than microchips alone, and Yes there has been credible campaigning performed by NO2ID, but this is counterbalanced by the failure of the strategy to date and the highly limited picture of current events NO2ID is presenting: in this respect, I submit it is now acting as a Gatekeeping organisation, even if that is not the conscious intent of the campaigns leadership

In contrast, the UK9/11 forum is managing to reflect the full range of theories and information pertaining to campaigning for a new investigation into 9/11 by focusing on moderating poor behaviour, not opinion or information

It is perfectly possible for NO2ID to censor unsubstantiated conspiracy theory whilst allowing discussion of credible sourced information: the question has to be asked as to why NO2ID cannot summon the will to do so, in a year that has already seen the MSM advocate, through individual stories, the microchipping of every "fringe" section of society:

Or, in my view inevitably, be perceived as "blimmin useless!"

the norseman

23-05-2007, 08:54 PM

Baron,

Just to put the record straight, that was a type error on my part - I meant to say it is NOT controlled oposition but it is sorely lacking on many issues that John White has addressed.

In essence it is a good site as it does help to wake people up but it is highly moderated and it like well meaning historians actually "gate keep" the real agendas without actually knowing it. Again John White has set this out in a clear mannor.

It is good in a way that it is viewed by many as a credible opposition and it is bringing people together to share information.

I apologise for the confusion.

The Norseman.

baron von lotsov

23-05-2007, 09:20 PM

Yes it is highly moderated. In the past it was worse and I put in my objections about it and a reasonable balance has been achieved. They had a lot of people spamming their site with 9/11 stuff, but it was all huge cut and pastes with millions of links and unfortunately people like Icke have created a label for that sort of thing.

What the forum is, which is substantially different to a lot of forums, is that it is the organisation's front. A lot of influential people are using it including MPs, councillors, lots of journalists and I can vouch for that because I have seen my arguments in print in a few national papers and so on. It functions as a top down protest group and honestly this is the only way we are going to win because NO2ID does not have system funding. It runs one office in London and all the rest is made up of local groups, which anyone can form.

Indeed people are looking at it as one of the most successful campaigns in modern times. Name one other campaign that has not had system backing that has achieved more. We have done it by talking to journalists, Lords, MPs and all the top people and winning them over in a language that they understand. You will see we have some top experts involved, people who have designed spy satellites for the military and I'll tell you they are not as system orientated as you might think. Also consider what you would feel about it if you were the government and your own expert advisers were telling you it is a very bad idea! It's quite comical really but we are managing to do this. The press come to us and if this means a few posts are deleted because they contain erroneous information then it's a minor irritation compared to being forced to carry an ID card.

Here is a thing you can try to see how well known NO2ID have become. Type ID cards into Google.

john white

23-05-2007, 09:28 PM

baron von lotsov

23-05-2007, 10:16 PM

A well reasoned response Baron, but you havnt addressed my core points

In particular, why should press visitors be discouraged by information they themselves are presenting?

And I shall judge the success of the campaign on whether or not ID cards and other forms of emergent technology destroying human sovereignty are defeated: anything else is surely premature,and at best "it held great promise": not addressing the legitamate ID concerns of the public, especially the aware community, must be counterproductive

Yes and that is all NO2ID represent. It has to be this way in order to achieve coherence, because as soon as you broaden it to include anything else you are you are going to divide your support or more accurately to split it off and loose it. This is why it is apolitical in that it welcomes backing from any political party. So far we have the official support of the Tories and the Liberals and most importantly we are entering into the very fragile ground of the Labour people. So if you go and spout off a load of stuff about Blair you will get the backing of the already converted but you will loose the ones you really need to talk to.

This is why I believe we are winning because we are appealing to everyone and uniting everyone over a common enemy, which is well defined. If we do win then it will do untold good to anyone else who wants to have a crack at the system for other things the government will be told to introduce in the future. The most important message is that it is possible, people who just shut it out as controlled opposition are in effect excusing themselves of their responsibility to do something.

john white

23-05-2007, 11:01 PM

Yes and that is all NO2ID represent. It has to be this way in order to achieve coherence, because as soon as you broaden it to include anything else you are you are going to divide your support or more accurately to split it off and loose it. This is why it is apolitical in that it welcomes backing from any political party. So far we have the official support of the Tories and the Liberals and most importantly we are entering into the very fragile ground of the Labour people. So if you go and spout off a load of stuff about Blair you will get the backing of the already converted but you will loose the ones you really need to talk to.

This is why I believe we are winning because we are appealing to everyone and uniting everyone over a common enemy, which is well defined. If we do win then it will do untold good to anyone else who wants to have a crack at the system for other things the government will be told to introduce in the future. The most important message is that it is possible, people who just shut it out as controlled opposition are in effect excusing themselves of their responsibility to do something.

I appreciate the pragmatism Baron but I wonder about the apparent niavety. yes, the support of political parties is a wonderful thing, but not at the expense of only representing views those parties find politic. Surely it should be a matter of demanding those parties come off the fence and make clear unambigous statements and commitments re their position towards ID Cards/Chips and centralised databases, opposition thereto? Not saying things they like to hear?

It surely cannot be a stretch of the imagination to appreciate the legitamate caution of the awake and the active to subsume their efforts into a campaign that will not address clear, solid, gold plated information for the sake of political coherance, especially when all political parties are vunerable to injections of raw cash from commercial interests, in a country where corruption has never been more rampant.

To an activist, it is not simply a matter of "excusing themselves of their responsibility to do something" (a somewhat arrogant view to be fair), but of balancing whether subsuming their energy into a campaign that cannot confront the full scope of the issues becuase of internal compromise, however motivated, is more productive than continuing with freelance efforts or building a new campaign from scratch

I know your a well read man, so surely you cannot be unaware that intelligence services do their level best to inflitrate any and all succesful movements: therefore, you must also be able to apprecuiate why many people are siding with the possibility that NO2ID is so influenced becuase of the campaigns failure to demonstrate this is not the case by acting in good faith and running from debate. Again, I am not saying this is the situation: but as you yourself have highlighted the importance of perception, is not NO2ID failing to maximise its potential, and squandering the opportunity of the narrow band of time we have available?

My greatest concern is that the ID card Act will "dissapear" from view only for the agenda to come in from the back door becuase people were not adequately prepared with all the information available: in other words, a stage magicians distraction aided however unwittingly by NO2ID's pride and desire to appear presentable to the very political elites that are forcing the situation through in the first place. I remind you that the Tory party has, in the past, been entirely suportive of ID cards when in government, and the Liberal Democrats want to rush the country into Europe, where ID cards/database are a defacto certainty... and thats without mentioning the names Blair, Brown, Cameron, Campbell and the connecting factor: Bilderberg

baron von lotsov

24-05-2007, 12:32 AM

Don't worry, a lot of people on the campaign have very sharp minds. They know all of this stuff already and a lot of other stuff you don't. It is working, so the usual approach I have when something is working really well is if it isn't broken don't try and fix it.

There is no compromise what so ever except in your mind. We have had one or two try and have a go at infiltrating it but we are expecting them. They aren't super human smart just because they work for MI5 and they tend to lay off rather than get their cover blown. If you want an example of something that is crawling with agents you need look no further than the green movement. Seriously, they do that kind of thing and the average hippy is so stoned that a few dreadlocks would fool them, no problem.

december

24-05-2007, 12:47 AM

I don't understand why is it a big deal for you?
How did you actually live without ID cards before?

dondaz

24-05-2007, 02:43 AM

Hi John, very interesting post here. Very useful indeed!

no2id has definately been infiltrated by the powers that be.

I think maybe the Leave Them Kids Alone website has been overtaken by them now. They haven't really got an issue with taking childrens fingerprints, their issue is schools doing it without parents permission.

There is a huge difference!

Not only that, here's a screenshot I took in January this year:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/dazp5/LTKA-Home---Jan07.jpg

I wrote them a letter, which was my very first post on this forum:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1116

Here's the anwer I received back:

Darren,

Thanks for your email to LeaveThemKidsAlone.

Sorry it's taken such a long time to reply - this campaign is only run
by a handful of parents and as you can probably imagine we get literally
hundreds and hundreds of emails. In fact, all the comments from parents
that you can read on our website arrived in the first couple of weeks of
our campaign - since then there simply hasn't been time to update those
parts of the site, though we do carefully read and take note of all
correpondence received.

May I suggest you get back in touch with your human rights solicitors -
especially if you think you are being harrassed.

As for action at the school gates, although my wife and I did on one
occasion hand out leaflets and display our banner outside our school
gates, which we were perfectly entitled to do, we have always ensured
that permission is sought before filming - even when BBC News came down
to do a report.

This is because even with the most careful filming, it's possible that
some children might be accidentally caught on camera without their
parents' consent. As this campaign is all about children's privacy, and
parental consent, clearly that's something we would want to avoid at all
costs.

Best wishes,

David

Here's a screenshot of their site in April:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/dazp5/LTKA-Home---April07.jpg

Not a handfull of busy people running the website now eh? More like a handfull of professionals!

I have also sent them these links for their site:

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4876807553043435597&q=leave+our+kids+alone

ccc-fake-fingerprint - YouTube

Do you think they are interested? Not a chance!

They are not interested in being interviewed for my film either. Oh well!

My intuition tells me they have been infiltrated!

Making my documentary, Leave Our Kids Alone, has opened my eyes to how far governments really go to cover up for the NWO. There's nothing like doing your own research and investigating and finding out that a conspiracy does indeed exhist!

Darren

john white

24-05-2007, 02:50 AM

Wow! Thats some hard evidence you've got going there Dondaz

Right I say right now: Time to say goodbye to NO2ID

We should either join Lift the Veils forum, www.NO2IDCHIP.com, or start a campaign out of this very forum, we cannot afford to leave this to the current crowd, its far to important

With your permission, I'd love to repost your post above on other forums, people will want to see this: and when's the documentary?

dondaz

24-05-2007, 03:03 AM

Sorry John, but you taking the piss:confused:

I don't mind at all, I can handle it!:D

Do you think I have a case really?

Best

Darren

john white

24-05-2007, 03:06 AM

Sorry John, but you taking the piss:confused:

I don't mind at all, I can handle it!:D

Do you think I have a case really?

Best

Darren

The raw scale of child fingerprinting, and the "don't want to know" attitude of a group proclaiming itself to be leading the fight against that: You bet people are going to want to know, you've got a story affecting thousands of children behind their parents backs not getting exposed on the MSM, the alternative info circuit will definately pay attention

baron von lotsov

24-05-2007, 03:17 AM

What are you people on about?

"My intuition tells me they have been infiltrated!"

and

"Wow! Thats some hard evidence you've got going there Dondaz"

It sounds more like you are trying to infiltrate them!

Please explain.

I mean, so what if they don't want to appear in your film? It looks like a small protest and just run by some concerned parents. Give them a break or lets have some proof rather than this dribble.

dondaz

24-05-2007, 03:21 AM

Sure John, post what you want. Be nice to keep me updated so I can follow this up for my movie?:rolleyes:

What say yee?

Darren

john white

24-05-2007, 03:36 AM

Wilco, lets see what happens: I'll sort it out tommorow now

john white

24-05-2007, 04:03 PM

Dondaz, I've worked on your post to make it more immediately presentable in other places, I'd like to OK it with you but you dont have "recieve PM" active

Could you either activate the pm function so we can check the post I've prepared out privately, or indicate you'd like me to put it up here?

When its cool, I'll get it spread around

Thanks, John

dondaz

24-05-2007, 06:40 PM

Hi John,

sorted my pm out, sorry 'bout that.

Sure, send me a link or something. I am all for speaking out about what's happening.

Unfortunately, I never kept the other e-mails I sent to them. There was no info in them, just the url of the movie clips on u-tube with a brief note!

I was going to join their forum and seriously take the piss (I get a little bitter and twisted about it at times), like I did with Fintan Dunne when he pissed me off:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1212

My film will be finished shortly, I've been down to Parliment to try to get Jack Straw on camera about it but he wouldn't come out of his closet.

I plan to Roger Cook Tony Blair tomorrow over these issues too:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4078

I have been asked by the organiser of the Cambridge Stawberry Fair Film Festival to debut my film there, so things are looking ok so far.

Sorry to go on:rolleyes:

Let's have a butchers at this stuff then on pm

Darren

baron von lotsov

24-05-2007, 09:53 PM

So you two slag off NO2ID and when challenged you have no proof and decide to change the subject. What a surprise!

john white

24-05-2007, 10:31 PM

So you two slag off NO2ID and when challenged you have no proof and decide to change the subject. What a surprise!

Jumping to conclusions there Baron: I'm not discussing NO2ID with dondaz over the last few posts, I'm discussing an entirely seperate campaign. Dondaz has stated his own view of NO2ID which I've already said goes further than I would without proof positive: doesnt mean we cant agree on the important stuff

And as far as proof goes, I've provided proof positive of NO2ID censoring discussion of MSM material about emergent technology, you have provided a rationale for that action, I have provided a counter rationale that you have not addressed

I'll resist the temptation to say "what a suprise!" in return

baron von lotsov

24-05-2007, 11:15 PM

My mind has been made up on the subject although I don't understand why you waste your time having a pop at them when they actually give a lot of their time to fight a cause that is compatible with your interests. Try and be a bit more positive in future, say what you like about them, not your personal squabbles. They are making a positive contribution, that's unquestionable. Second they are not infiltrated, we have infiltrated the establishment. There is a big difference.

john white

24-05-2007, 11:19 PM

My mind has been made up on the subject

Honest of you Baron, (which I always respect) but not inducing confidence that you've thought the implications through

dondaz

25-05-2007, 12:08 AM

Hi baron

So you two slag off NO2ID and when challenged you have no proof and decide to change the subject. What a surprise!

This was my doing here, I must confess.:D My intention wasn't to confuse you, but to show people just how subtle these gatekeepers can be. What constitutes proof to me may or may not for you.

It depends on your belief system.

Have you ever done jury duty?

Just because two people are the same size doesn't mean they like the same fit.

My intuition could possibly be like what a detective has when he gets a hunch!

Darren

baron von lotsov

25-05-2007, 01:20 AM

Hi baron

This was my doing here, I must confess.:D My intention wasn't to confuse you, but to show people just how subtle these gatekeepers can be. What constitutes proof to me may or may not for you.

It depends on your belief system.

Have you ever done jury duty?

Just because two people are the same size doesn't mean they like the same fit.

My intuition could possibly be like what a detective has when he gets a hunch!

Darren

I know school does its best to discourage reason and logic but it does have its place. For your information I have checked them out thoroughly since I figured that deleted posts could mean they have some hidden infiltration. I'm pretty certain now either it does not exist or the influence is so small that it is not noticeable.

Each of them come from different backgrounds, for example Geraint and Andrew Watson are IT specialists/experts. Geraint does post grad stuff to do with vehicle automation at some Scottish Uni and Andrew Watson is from Cambridge and is involved with some really serious computer programming stuff at an expert level.

Dave Gould I have had disputes with in the past as he had a bit of a offhand attitude but when you get to know him better you will understand its not intentionally rude but he does a job as a therapist dealing with mad people so you can excuse him on that number. A very motivated member and he is putting together support gigs in and around Bristol and likes chasing Home office reps round shopping centres while being filmed by the BBC! top one that.

And then we have Guy Herbert who you might consider quite straight, this is because he is a legal expert and you won't be able to pass off any half-baked ideas when he is around, a very sharp legal mind and a valuable contribution. Then finally we have Phil who runs it. I get on better with him than any of them and he is an excellent communicator and a very average person in that he was originally a sculpture teacher so he's excellent at identifying with normal people and does all the press releases. Why did he get to the top? Well simply because he has been in it for the longest and put in the most work when it was decided. So where is your MI5 in that lot?

john white

25-05-2007, 01:41 AM

So where is your MI5 in that lot?

No-where provable if at all Baron, but that's not the point

Where in your above description does it show that NO2ID are not being blimmin useless?

When we have established as fact that the MSM can happily plug away at technology that makes the very concept of personal freedom irrelevant, whilst "NO2ID" won't allow the slightest discussion of it for fear, according to yourself, of upsetting its political allies

I'd certainly like to get hold of a copy of the campaigns accounts. Are they published? Have you seen them? Full page in the Gruniard isnt cheap

BTW:

Dave Gould I have had disputes with in the past as he had a bit of a offhand attitude but when you get to know him better you will understand its not intentionally rude but he does a job as a therapist dealing with mad people so you can excuse him on that number

No Baron, quite the opposite. I dont find the revealing that the mentally ill are being treated by a man with a major case of ignorance (having debated Dave Gould to the point of his shameful embarisment and recieved an apology for his behaviour from Phil Gould, now long deleted of course) either reassuring or excusable, and I wonder if its a case of physician heal thyself

baron von lotsov

25-05-2007, 01:56 AM

David Gould has had something of a bit of a eureka experience as regards what actually goes on in the world. He posts under the username of Winston Smith on the channel 4 news forum and you can look at his comments on the thread about the NWO if you care to investigate.

Now who else have we had on there? Well there was someone from the House of Lords posting a while back and the guy who was running for leadership of the UKIP. There is also someone called Brian Gladman. I was having a debate about cryptography and RSA with Geraint at the time and doing quite and then he appears, probably one of the UK's leading experts on the subject and here is his homepage. http://fp.gladman.plus.com/

You see, that's why NO2ID are winning, it has brains and lots of them in some very high positions as well, even in the police! And none of these people have done anything but be 100% dedicated to getting rid of ID cards, indeed they are some of the project fiercest opponents.

john white

25-05-2007, 02:01 AM

baron von lotsov

25-05-2007, 02:23 AM

Well when they display the nessacary brains to allow the disemination of solid information about emergent technology, they'll certainly gain more support AND respect. With that much intelligence i'm sure they could handle it

Anyway, we are going around in circles somewhat: thanks for your replies Baron

Do you really think they are going to bend over backwards to please you when you put up such stupid threads such as this one? I have already explained what they cover, they are for stopping ID cards and the logging of information on databases. You have to draw a line somewhere and I have been inching it a bit further so that it encompasses CCTV because I have successfully argued how they will be used as part of the system and its now getting trendy to dis them in the mainstream anyway. Their original argument was most people support them, I mean that is true in that it is in the region of 85% but even that figure is not likely to remain when people know what they will do with them.

Fingerprinting of school kids is also ok and we even got a press report in the top Italian paper about that one so that was nice of them. Indeed there is enough immediate surveillance going on that I agree with them that the pubic wont be gripped by things that have not even been proposed by the government yet. You are the agent provocateur if ever there was one. Wake up man!

john white

25-05-2007, 02:37 AM

I can tell you arn't happy about my opinion Baron: thats humans for you, everybody's got one. I read your post above as doing more to condemn NO2ID than praise them, although I doubt you'd recognise why. I'll try and help out: you've had to push for how long to get them to accept that CCTV has an impact on civil liberties? There has been resistance to speaking out about their dangers becuase they are popular?

That alone is not the actions of a campaign run with the passion to defend, or prevent, anything at all. Its the actions of a campaign afraid of truth

You tell me to "wake up": well you can tell me that if you wish: but all I see for the future of NO2ID is its disbanding after the end of a short term Brown government with the message that its OK to go back to sleep. Its a campaign preventing nothing but containing much.

baron von lotsov

25-05-2007, 03:12 AM

I'm not like you, I'm not into twisting the truth to support any position, I'll report the truth as accurately as I can. Indeed ID cards don't need any more elaboration than what they already are and people switch off when they detect they are being spun anyway. Name calling is often resorted to when one has lost the reasoned argument so there is no point in me continuing to argue my point here.

I'm a practical person, I do what I consider to be the most effective actions to achieve my goals. I have had a hand in shaping NO2ID, some of it is me and some is other people. That's all it is, a bunch of people who are fighting the government. It is not one of those organisations run on dogmatic principles, it is democratic and localised as much as possible. I have learnt stuff from other people's approaches and they have learnt stuff from me. NO2ID is therefore the balance of all arguments and if you want to improve it you have to put up a strong case.

Some things I mentioned have been acted upon and others haven't but I'd say the best ideas I have had are the ones that have had the greatest influence and others have got dropped. Now imagine you were MI5 in such a scenario, it would be very tough going, pretty difficult and maybe impossible to infiltrate. There are much much easier targets for them so they have laid off and we have steamed ahead unimpeded. I would say we hold the upper hand now and I'm really wondering what will happen next.

In a month or so we will know because Brown will have to decide. If they are going to back down it will be consistent with what Brown says. As soon as he opens his mouth on the topic we will know, so stay tuned. This is unchartered territory, not since the poll tax has protest been so fierce and I mean the poll tax had to actually be introduced to kick up a stink, this scheme has not even got off the ground and it is getting near to that level. remember no ID cards and there is no chance of them introducing the microchip, not a smidgen of a chance.

john white

25-05-2007, 03:37 AM

I'm tempted to say "bet you a fiver" Baron, but that would be futile, as we would be punters in a stacked game where house always wins

You site the Poll Tax Riots. Well we got the Council Tax in its place, arguably even worse, and all those Poll Tax Rioters had all their momentum sapped away becuase they focused on the shiny ball put in front of them. Either way taxation = control. shall we apply control based on an individual levy, or based on a levy on where you live? Some meaningful difference!

Here's how I see it: Brown certainly wont back down. We go to general election. Labour win = ID in. Tory in = market crash = bounce into Europe = ID in. Lib Dem in = bounce into Europe = ID in. ID in = Microchipping in. In case you missed it Baron, public opinion is being sounded NOW on microchipping kids! You know what stories in papers and opinion polls are all about: seeding and checking the Tavistock MK is taking hold. Its my passion to give a damn about that that lead me to create this thread

However it is viewed, this is not a struggle against a single peice of legislation from one government: it is a struggle to assert the definition of what it means to be human. View it as philosophical/spiritual/ethical, its all the same situation. Truth is the only weapon

I'm not like you, I'm not into twisting the truth to support any position.... Name calling is often resorted to when one has lost the reasoned argument

*sigh* Still the same old Baron...

baron von lotsov

25-05-2007, 04:01 AM

We know about the Tavistock Institute. I spotted a piece in the Guardian using dodgy mind control, so I posted it up on the forum with a full technical breakdown of what tricks it was using. I never saw anything remotely similar again, even The Times is treading carefully on the issue.

What has changed is we have moved from backing from The Guardian and Independent as the early adopters of our position to spread to most of the broadsheets, especially The Telegraph and now we have achieved jackpot because The Daily Mail and other middle England papers have caught on and are using it as a battering ram like we had hoped they would do. To show the extent the establishment papers have had to bend to from their readership we have even got the support of The Sun. Now you may scoff at that but that represents millions of people, think of a few million people lined up on a battlefield, that's some serious political pressure. Even a film is being made about it with 1/2 million in funding. I recall discussing exactly that on the site a good while back. Who knows, but that place is hot with activity.

john white

03-06-2007, 08:25 PM

*bump* for those that missed this first time around

And gosh, isnt Gordon Brown pushing ahead full steam with ID cards?

(plus loads of other agenda munching "security" measures)

baron von lotsov

03-06-2007, 08:45 PM

*bump* for those that missed this first time around

And gosh, isnt Gordon Brown pushing ahead full steam with ID cards?

(plus loads of other agenda munching "security" measures)

Of course he has and I think nearly everyone and NO2ID had expected it. I could dig out a thread or two on their forum to show you if you want.

Anyway its full steam ahead at NO2ID, even the police are with us on the civil liberties business. Have you seen the press recently?

john white

10-07-2007, 10:52 PM

Time for a bump

A message from Darkovic:

BBC 1 now - TAGS DON`T WORK... chip them then!

http://illusionsforum.jconserv.net/viewtopic.php?t=3956

PRS bullshit again. Saying people with tags take them off and they don`t work.

What other options do we have then, for tracking people? Hmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I KNOW!!! CHIP THEM!

So now on the list of people to be chipped are:

Newborns and children (incase of kidnapping etc)

The elderly and mentally ill.

Criminals on bail and early release programs etc

Armed forces.

All Government employees.

Once all those have them they`ll say "well you might aswell get them too!" and they`ll change the systems in place to NEED a chip in you to opperate and you`ll slowley have no choice, but to get chipped...

haha always a choice.

BBC1 can promote Chipping but dont think you can talk about it on NO2ID!

soglad

10-07-2007, 11:05 PM

john white

10-07-2007, 11:21 PM

By the way, is there a fine or prison sentence for refusing an ID card or chip? I live in Ireland, and I don't think there will be IDs and RFID here, but just in case, I'll take and prison sentence.....

£3000 fine for each instance of refusing to report to a processing centre, at your own expense, to pay for the card, at your own expense, prison sentances up to 2 years, come out, guess what? Report as ordered or £3000 fine for each instance of refusing to report etc etc blah

And of course, while in prison expect to be chipped!

Expect them to terrify us a whole lot more before 2009 to try and get this scheme to work

soglad

11-07-2007, 01:56 AM

Jesus, with that type of method they'd get they're way no problem. Foul animals.

I'd just move out of the country to be honest.

john white

11-07-2007, 02:29 AM

Jesus, with that type of method they'd get they're way no problem. Foul animals.

I'd just move out of the country to be honest.

Mate: I hate to mention this to you: but your already in the EU!

The only thing making life comfortable at the moment is a false credit bubble: pop that and we all feel it, which the banks can do at any time

I'll take my chances in Blighty thanks, and good luck to you too!

soglad

11-07-2007, 02:32 AM

I thought it was only in Britain? I know it will probably evolve into a European thing, but hopefully by then I'd be a long way away.

Preferably Pluto :p

john white

11-07-2007, 03:41 AM

I thought it was only in Britain? I know it will probably evolve into a European thing, but hopefully by then I'd be a long way away.

Preferably Pluto :p

Oh boy

Well I appreciate you feeling harmonious in Ireland its such beautiful country and believe you me it touches my heart:

But we are talking about a New World Order here and there's no way Ireland is escaping the grid. Fact is Ireland's Government seems to have no trouble accepting a European Constitution, where RFID ID is already mandatory! Humans are already chipped for purposes of shopping in Germany: Supermarkets are fully ready for RFID scanning that can handle chips. Oh, let alone survaillance in the workplace: man that subject runs deep! From direct observation/evesdropping to micro anaylsis of working patterns and scrutinised breaktimes

Employment sucks! Refuse the Lease!

I wouldnt want my earlier comment to seem like I am concerned with Nations:

Nations after all are just Notions:

The reality is that both You and I stand on the same planet Soglad and are in this together

And I know for a fact that the clock is ticking in the UK until a very real confrontation with the Agenda: no one is going to be able to pretend it isnt happening, everyone is gonna have to decide to comply: OR POSITIVELY DECIDE OTHERWISE. The TV will make it seems like the natural and smart thing to do, and it will be up to the aware to get awareness into their communities if civil non compliance is gonna scupper it

I think free forums provide a remarkable oportunity to write ones own local newspaper and just publicise the web address to get people to read it, and the more are established now the more difference they could make

Nothing like a good positive suggestion!

john white

11-07-2007, 04:27 AM

Let me put it this way:

If I didn't say to everyone reading these words to expect to have to reject an impanted chip positively within a few years, I'd be lying to you:

And people in Britain have no more then 2 years before they absolutely must reject the RFID ID Card

Remember Problem Reaction Solution!

We have to have the Vision, the co-ordinates, to be able to see the destination if we are to understand the import of the individual manouvers

basel

12-07-2007, 12:08 AM

i totally agree with you john, but what have we at the moment to replace said government when we DO decide to stand up for said rights, thats the bit thats concerns me the most because we are taking about open war and that means attempts at marshall law!

basel

cruise4

12-07-2007, 12:48 AM

Suppose someone comes out with a device that is small and wipes other peoples implants?

soglad

12-07-2007, 02:04 AM

John, you're getting me kind of down here. I never wish to be implanted with a chip, and if it means imprisonment then I'm afraid I better get used to the idea. I shall never humiliate my body/temple with such barbaric devices.

truthsayer

12-07-2007, 02:17 AM

Its always the same, the same tactic, because they know that most will respond as sheeple do to it. Fear. Then they get completely blind sighted by it.

Humans will destroy themselves because they allow themselves to be herded.

dondaz

11-05-2008, 03:16 AM

That was a good arguement you put across John. Proved your case, nice one!

niftygifter

11-05-2008, 08:26 AM

They are as useless as a chocolate fireguard;)

http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/government/homeland_security_patriot_act_fema/news.php?q=1207932951

Check out the bloody disclaimer:eek::eek:
"Patient...is fully aware of any risks, complications, risks of loss, damage of any nature, and injury that may be associated with this registration. Patient waives all claims and releases any liability arising from this registration and acknowledges that no warranties of any kind have been made or will be made with respect to this registration. ALL WARRANTIES, WHETHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, HOWEVER ARISING, WHETHER BY OPERATION OF LAW OR OTHERWISE, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MECHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE EXCLUDED AND WAIVED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COMPANY BE LIABLE TO PATIENT FOR ANY INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING LOST INCOME OR SAVINGS) ARISING FROM ANY CAUSE WHATSOEVER, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THEIR POSSIBILITY, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER SUCH DAMAGES ARE SOUGHT BASED ON BREACH OF CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE, OR ANY OTHER LEGAL THEORY."

Get this info out and it will be buried:rolleyes:

Nifty:cool:

revolutionary_jam

11-05-2008, 12:08 PM

is everyone here committed to not getting an id card?

dondaz

11-05-2008, 01:59 PM

is everyone here committed to not getting an id card?

Controlled opposition will say yes, but decieve you into getting it some other way, via passport, drivers liscence etc. Typical NO2ID tactics. Been looking into these NO2ID people, they use lots of subliminals. Check out their forum members, always pushing the no plane theory over 911. I wouldn't trust any of them and rightly so.

baron von lotsov

11-05-2008, 02:30 PM

Controlled opposition will say yes, but decieve you into getting it some other way, via passport, drivers liscence etc. Typical NO2ID tactics. Been looking into these NO2ID people, they use lots of subliminals. Check out their forum members, always pushing the no plane theory over 911. I wouldn't trust any of them and rightly so.

That's bullshit and you know it. They are far more committed to it than anyone on here. It's this forum and its space alien Tsarion guru worshippers that are the problem. And that is the truth!!!!

How much press has this forum drummed up, how many MPs have you written to, how many Lords, how much legal firepower do you have? FA and that is the truth as well. You people just like to say they are useless since you can't face the truth about this forum being useless. You should chat to some NO2ID people, some write hundreds of letters to the press and have had them published, whether that be the FT the Times or any other paper. We have professors lobbying on our behalf and a lot of other smart people. So sort it out as this thread is pathetic!

dondaz

11-05-2008, 08:04 PM

That's bullshit and you know it.

No, this is bullshit baron:

In response to comments by Lord Justice Sedley, the Prime Minister says he has no plans to put everyone onto the National DNA Database (http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article2934322.ece). We believe him.

NO2ID believe the prime minister that he has no plans to put everyone onto a national DNA database, they are very trusting of Gordon Brown, labour leader, unelected by the British people, who is a mason, eu supporter, traiter, lying snide, common purpose and elite shill. Promoting their trust in Gordon Brown.

Have all NO2ID people fallen for Romans 13?

...The current Police and Criminal Evidence Act (PACE) review (http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/operational-policing/powers-pace-codes/PACE-Review) is seriously considering taking DNA from people stopped for 'non-recordable' offences, such as littering or traffic violations (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article2183105.ece).

They're seriously considering:eek: They are doing it mate. The police are stopping people everywhere for the most unreasonable reasons and taking their DNA. This has been reported all over the net and even in msm and NO2ID are not aware of this? Yeah right.

NO2ID Deputy Chair — Debbie Chay Debbie is chair of Charter 88 (http://www.charter88.org.uk/), the 80,000-strong constitutional reform movement.

Charter 88, an organisation trying to get us a written constitution, no mention that we aready have a great constitution that is be ignored by polititions, media etc. Check out Charter 88 links page: http://www.unlockdemocracy.org.uk/?page_id=941, they link to the Fabion Society, the home office, the fawcett society, who back the false feminist movement and are in cahoots with communist Ken Livinston, who says, "I am supporting the Fawcett Feminist Challenge - to lend my voice to the necessary fight for equality and against discrimination."

http://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=394

Their only link of any repute is Taking Liberties website.
I don't see any tpuc or eutruth links there!

I'm not going to even bother getting into the other peoples connections and associates of NO2ID. They are too much in with the powers that be. This is obvious by the evidence I have provided.

Look at the organisations that support NO2ID: http://www.no2id.net/about/supporters.php

NO2ID are low-leveling lots of things and been getting away with it for ages. Check out their website and forum folks, don't take my word for it: http://www.no2id.net/

It's this forum and its space alien Tsarion guru worshippers that are the problem. And that is the truth!!!!

Ah the truth. I don't see anyone worshipping Tsarion here, but there has been too much tavistock disinfo going on about him in this forum!

How much press has this forum drummed up, how many MPs have you written to, how many Lords, how much legal firepower do you have? FA and that is the truth as well.

Ah the truth again, here's what I do baron, I go see them myself and then post the footage, that's the truth:

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Here's my Youtube channel in case you wish to further dispute what I myself am doing to expose the nwo and it's agenda and the people pushing it: http://www.youtube.com/user/darrenpollard1st

You people just like to say they are useless since you can't face the truth about this forum being useless.

Ah, there's the truth word again, if this forum is so usless why do you bother to post here? Obviously you are wasting your time here baron.

You should chat to some NO2ID people, some write hundreds of letters to the press and have had them published, whether that be the FT the Times or any other paper. We have professors lobbying on our behalf and a lot of other smart people.

Whoopee doo. The FT and times are owned by tptb. Do you think they are going to publish anything that will hinder their plans? Ha ha, not likely, you should know this baron!

So sort it out as this thread is pathetic!

Not as pathetic as NO2ID and their members have proven themselves to be;)

Check it out folks, do your own thinking. I'm just the messenger:rolleyes:

psych641

11-05-2008, 10:04 PM

I havent read the thread through yet, but i just wanted to mention:

http://www.defy-id.org.uk/

this is the 'other' anti-ID network. perhaps its the 'real' one ;) Have a quick read of the 1st 1/4 of this page & youll see what i mean; http://flag.blackened.net/af/ace/anon.html

dondaz

11-05-2008, 11:30 PM

this is the 'other' anti-ID network. perhaps its the 'real' one ;) Have a quick read of the 1st 1/4 of this page & youll see what i mean; http://flag.blackened.net/af/ace/anon.html (http://flag.blackened.net/af/ace/anon.html)

Yeah, some really good info there.

Having judged the strong opposition that already exists against having an actual card, the government announced in March 2008 that it won't now make it compulsory except for airport & power station workers, people working on the London Olympics site, and others like doctors, nurses, teachers and social workers. That's already a lot of people, but whatever, let's not be fooled, because the real danger is not the carrying of a card, it's the computerised identity register which we'll all have to be on. Plus the state really does want us all to have a card, and actually hopes we'll get one by choice! Young people applying for their first bank account will be encouraged to get an ID card for convenience when they apply for a bank account or student loan, and to prove their age in the pub. The rest of us are expected to follow later when we realise we can't live without one. All of this shows us that the state is bent on imposing ID cards 'by stealth'.

Once the system is in place you cannot go back. The ID card is an object that identifies you. You have to have it with you at all times. It makes police control much easier. If you can’t establish identity then they can take you to the police station without any other reason. Once they have the ID card in place then they can add other things- like biometric identification e.g. fingerprints. The base is the card and then they add things. The ID card is the beginning of a general file on everyone that regroups all other information they have to identify someone. They can have your whole life in this one file- your health, civil status etc.

NO2ID are a waste of time, they're giving the appearence of of making a difference but they're not. Another typical tactic that shows tptb have control at the highest levels in NO2ID.

malvern

11-05-2008, 11:35 PM

dam right dondaz ...people need to wake up they ever group they try and discredit from inside ... even David's "save the school" group, with there don't peak to early bullshit and beware people don't get sign blind ....

they will do anything to stop people ....... so that we stay in thier power..

freedom is the grandchildren

edelweiss pirate

11-05-2008, 11:46 PM

That's bullshit and you know it. They are far more committed to it than anyone on here. It's this forum and its space alien Tsarion guru worshippers that are the problem. And that is the truth!!!!

How much press has this forum drummed up, how many MPs have you written to, how many Lords, how much legal firepower do you have? FA and that is the truth as well. You people just like to say they are useless since you can't face the truth about this forum being useless. You should chat to some NO2ID people, some write hundreds of letters to the press and have had them published, whether that be the FT the Times or any other paper. We have professors lobbying on our behalf and a lot of other smart people. So sort it out as this thread is pathetic!

I agree. The thread is divisive and perfect for creating those intra-movement squabbles that are damaging the conspiracy world.

dondaz

12-05-2008, 01:41 AM

...people need to wake up they ever group they try and discredit from inside ... even David's "save the school" group, with there don't peak to early bullshit and beware people don't get sign blind ....

they will do anything to stop people .......

Yes, they are quite skilled at putting people off, untill you know how they work and manipulate. Then it's easy to spot them and their subliminal deciet, that goes for forums too!

The thread is divisive and perfect for creating those intra-movement squabbles that are damaging the conspiracy world.

Hey EP, Most threads on here are devisive and created for a purpose. This thread is no different. Debunk the information that has been presented, that's what I say, I don't see anyone here doing it.

Even the baron has gone to bed!:cool:

baron von lotsov

12-05-2008, 02:39 AM

Defy ID are more your anarchist people. I'd say if anything was brewing that would be where to look. Do you recall the 'Black Anarchists' at the G8 riots? Well people saw them get into the back of police vans and I don't mean like they were being arrested either.

NO2ID are what you would call informed opposition. Seriously, this way works a treat and we have got better results than nearly any other protest group. I challenge anyone to give me a better modern day example of a protest group that has made a difference. I know a lot that haven't, e.g. that pathetic group called Forest that is supposed to stand up for smokers. If you want to see controlled opposition check them out.

As for NO2ID being associated with Charter 88, I agree Charter 88 are dodgy. I had a girlfriend once get involved with them and I know what they do and I'd say they are definitely suspect, as would be those lefties that have been involved recently who liaise with the unions and that sort of thing. However the group is geared up to be non party political so it accepts all political parties who are against them. I know dam well the Fabians are amongst them and I keep them from doing what they are trying to do. We even had that Marxist think-tank DEMOS get in on the act with an ID card report. I explained it was pure brainwashing, I exposed it for what it was. People agreed, took my word for it and were thankful not to back it.

In truth NO2ID does not just have myself policing it, it has numerous people who are very well clued up and there would be nothing Brian Gerrish could tell them that they are not already aware of. One guy in particular, very much in the know put it down to a Fabian scheme. So no way is NO2ID controlled opposition, if it ever showed signs of getting like that too many would stop it. They know what to expect. I have been explaining it all to them for years but in a credible sort of way, no need to refer to reptilians. I use verifiable arguments, it is very strictly based on this. If you make an assertion you will have to prove it and if you can it is accepted. Please, anyone who still disagrees, explain how you would do a better job. Any really good suggestions that are not already being used are always welcome.

john white

12-05-2008, 02:51 AM

Please, anyone who still disagrees, explain how you would do a better job. Any really good suggestions that are not already being used are always welcome

Full discussion of the capabilities of survaillance and a broadening of the campaign to not be soley focused on a peice of Labour Party legislation?

I asked for that two years ago: when will I see progress?

baron von lotsov

12-05-2008, 03:44 AM

Full discussion of the capabilities of survaillance and a broadening of the campaign to not be soley focused on a peice of Labour Party legislation?

I asked for that two years ago: when will I see progress?

Here is one I prepared earlier on CCTV. It seems to have been a catalyst and I'm personally happy to have been that catalyst. In the Telegraph a few weeks later Devon Council were causing outrage for not putting a CCTV camera up because it might infringe the human Rights Act. (he he)

http://forum.no2id.net/viewtopic.php?t=20751

baron von lotsov

08-06-2008, 08:30 PM

John White is wrong!

Cambridge academics have led Britain's largest academic trade union in opposing the government's ID cards scheme. The Cambridge branch of the University and College Union (UCU) proposed a motion condemning the widely-criticised plans at the annual congress in Manchester on Wednesday 28th May. Representatives of the 120,000-strong union accepted the Cambridge proposal, voting unanimously to oppose ID cards plans and affiliate to NO2ID. Dr Toby White, a NO2ID activist and UCU member who helped organise the motion by the Cambridge branch, said: "UCU delegates from several other universities spoke strongly in support of our motion, which was passed with overwhelming support."
See: http://www.ucu.org.uk/circ/html/ucu104.html

john white

08-06-2008, 08:34 PM

Am I? About what? A Union positioning itself to beat upon the dying labour government?

informationx

08-06-2008, 08:44 PM

Hi folks,

Could someone sum up in a nutshell for me please the supposed issues with NO2ID.

Many thanks.

edelweiss pirate

08-06-2008, 09:24 PM

Am I? About what? A Union positioning itself to beat upon the dying labour government?

What an infuriating £*&^ you are.

Right even when you're wrong.

Good find Baron.

malvern

08-06-2008, 09:44 PM

Cambridge academics have led Britain's largest academic trade union in opposing the government's ID cards scheme. The Cambridge branch of the University and College Union (UCU) proposed a motion condemning the widely-criticised plans at the annual congress in Manchester on Wednesday 28th May. Representatives of the 120,000-strong union accepted the Cambridge proposal, voting unanimously to oppose ID cards plans and affiliate to NO2ID. Dr Toby White, a NO2ID activist and UCU member who helped organise the motion by the Cambridge branch, said: "UCU delegates from several other universities spoke strongly in support of our motion, which was passed with overwhelming support."

Cambridge does not need id cards ,, have you seen all the CAMERA IMAGE SYSTEMS they have in use in that area, well infact everywhere..... we don not need ID Cards, they do not need it they have this better system and how we pose for thier cameras

freedom is the grandchildren we are the caretakers

elysiumfire

09-06-2008, 02:23 AM

baron von lotsov

09-06-2008, 03:46 AM

Hi There,

I don't want to sound like I am paranoid, because of course, no one is, but I have probably a daft question to ask.

Recently, due to age and wear and tear (maybe even a little self-abuse) I have had to go to the opticians for an eye test. The result was that I require reading glasses. Now, could the optician have taken a retinal scan and hold it on his database, and make it available for the government register? I would think that opticians hold some valuable commodity regarding biometric detail.

Best wishes

No I don't think they would do that. First of all only a few people use opticians and secondly if they did something like that they would never be able to keep it secret and it would backfire on the government to a huge extent. They are already in enough trouble over this scheme so now they are targeting specific groups like airport workers and foreign students at the moment. I think they generally go for the groups they think will most likely comply first. After the security tightened up at airports post 911 the airport workers didn't kick up too much of a fuss about it so they have ushered themselves to the front of the list. Also children are getting it before the rest of us. I mean they are already dumbed down and can't vote either.

elysiumfire

09-06-2008, 11:12 AM

truthseeker1980

09-06-2008, 12:17 PM

baron von lotsov

09-06-2008, 01:06 PM

Hi There,

Thanks Baron for the response. I now have another question which I would like to throw open to everyone.

It has been noted that 'If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear'. What adequate response could given to opposingly answer this cliche?

Best wishes

I suppose what I would do is ask them who they copied it from and did they use their brain between the time they heard it and repeated it or not. These kinds of stupid sayings do not deserve an answer, the problem is simply people don't bother thinking. So its best to ask them a few questions to force them to think and preferably in front of their peers for maximum effect. You can start it on a basic level like asking them if the government tells the truth all of the time and then ask them what justification they have given and whether they believe it. If not then ask them what else they think the government might be doing it for. After a bit of this, those kinds of people learn it is preferable to engage brain before mouth.

We are dealing with impulsive responses basically and you have to teach people to think. Once they have got over this hurdle they will inevitably find out a lot of stuff they did not know about. I suppose the other way of saying it is they have been brainwashed and you give them the way to combat the brainwashing they have received. Keep it logical and reasonable and everything will eventually come into view. Don't try and use the same techniques as the government, i.e. stereotyping people and that sort of thing because the truth is on our side and hence we want people to use their brain. On the other hand the government is trying to lie to people and cover it up so they want to stop people from using their own mind.

quest

09-06-2008, 04:47 PM

It's probably been mentioned already; but, surely the fact that so many lib dems have links with NO2ID is enough to make anybody suspicious of what they are actually about?

the itinerant shrubber

09-06-2008, 04:58 PM

Fuck the masses,just be true to yourself and thats all that will matter in the end. I will never have an ID card no matter what the consequences. They can give my corpse an ID card if they wish but other than than that, its no deal, you fuckers!

thetonic

09-06-2008, 05:09 PM

baron von lotsov

09-06-2008, 05:43 PM

It's probably been mentioned already; but, surely the fact that so many lib dems have links with NO2ID is enough to make anybody suspicious of what they are actually about?

All parties do, even the socialist workers are against it. Would you rather only one party is against it? Democracy is the will of the majority, it is our job to get the majority to reject it.

dondaz

09-06-2008, 09:03 PM

baron von lotsov

09-06-2008, 09:27 PM

"If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear."

That's right out of a Tavistock manual, designed to get people to immeadiately submit to the police and governments.

I actually mentioned this at a local police meeting because they want to putt cctv up at the back of my house which will be able to film into my back garden and my 7yr old daughters bedroom.

I told them I have everything to hide and it is my own business and not theirs to be filming us in our street. The inspector didn't know what to say and all the polititions ducked their heads and wouldn't get into it! Got it on vid and it'll be in my new film, coming soon!

Well done. That is probably the best way to influence them, to say it to their faces. Sure they don't know what to say, that's why it is so effective, since these meetings are really another thing out of the Tavistock manual, namely the Delphi technique. To counter it you have to do what you did, reject the consensus out of hand. When one person stands up like that it appears so strong against the feeble agreements of all the other brainwashing victims that it shifts to a new consensus, the one you put forward. Everyone likes a hero and especially if the meeting is full of women. You just have to have the balls to do it and very few have these days.