The Rapture

[fattluck4tom]

First, let me say that i don't believe in any religion, per se. I am a "free thinker" just like David Icke and people like him are, so i'm not coming from a position of a Christian, Muslim, or Jew. Nothing like that.... so... my question is...

about the "rapture" or "catching away" that's presented in the bible. Has anyone ever thought that the rapture might have something to do with the galactic alignment/upheaval/earth changes that is supposed to be coming, on/near/or around 2012?

David Icke and others think (and i may ascribe too) that there is a dividing of the people happening on earth: to put it in biblical terms: dividing the sheep from the goats. I think people are creating the division themselves, some knowingly, others not so. At the same time this "dividing" is happening, some people (who may be called sheep) are not changing their vibration/minds/beliefs in keeping with raising their vibration enough to survive the earth changes to come. Could it be that the goats are the ones that are changing their vibration by their thinking and are creating with their intentions another dimensional paradise to which those with a high enough vibration will "ascend to" at the appointed times? I don't think there will be just "one" time, but that this "rapture" will take place at different times for different people. Could it be that those who don't "create" their "ascension home" here because they just didn't bother to learn who they were (which is the lesson we are to learn in this earth classroom, i.e., to be co-creators with Source) will remain in the 3rd dimension while others will ascend to higher levels of reality/dimensions?

Could that be what's meant in the bible by a "new heaven and new earth" for those who are able to ascend with this earth into a paradise state? After all, we know that humans are spiritual beings and we have a "higher self" which helps us grow spiritually. Why wouldn't the Earth have a "higher self" too? Could it be that Earth is changing it's vibration to a higher one and only those who change with it will be going into a "paradise earth condition" too? I don't know if anyone will understand the point i'm trying to make, but I hope so....

Also, does anyone know the significance of the 144,000 in a non-religious sense, i.e., in a metaphysical sense?

This just came to me the other day in a "day dream". I'd like to know if anyone else has had this kind of idea!

[bgrade_actor]

144 000 are from the tribes of Israel. They are the Jews who are saved. There is various speculation to who they are.

Then in the next verse all the Christians of the world who have been risen up.

Here is a bit from a bible commentary on this verse

The number 144,000 is obviously obtained by combining 12,000 for each of the twelve tribes of Israel (vv.5-8). Earlier (cf. 4:4), twenty-four (a multiple of twelve) served as a symbolic number. The "thousand" multiple appears again later, in relation to the size of the Holy City: "He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia in length, and as wide and high as it is long" (21:16). Thus, 12,000 is symbolic of completeness and perfection. Even the wall is "144 cubits" (i.e., twelve times twelve; v.17). The tree of life bearing "twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month" (i.e., twelve months; 22:2) further supports the view that John intends the number twelve to be taken symbolically. By 144,000, he signifies the sealing of the total number of God's servants who will face the Great Tribulation.
Those who are sealed come from "all the tribes of Israel," and this emphasizes even more the universality and comprehensiveness of the Christian gospel. Whereas in first-century Judaism there were many sects with exclusive tribal claims to being the "true Israel," for the followers of Jesus all such sectarianism is broken down and all groups, regardless of race, culture, religious background, or geographical location, are accepted before God (7:9; 14:4). There is an exclusivism in Revelation, but it is based on loyalty to Christ.

[armoured_amazon]

It's a nice theory.

[devotional soul]

The 144,000 mentioned in the book of revelation specifically leave out two tribes that were originally the tribes of Israel...the tribes of Dan and Ephraim, which are the tribes that the royal family illuminati bloodlines are from. They are not included because they are satanic.

When I think of the 144,000, it says that they are men who have not been with women, which makes me think of bramacharis and other spiritually devoted men. The tribes are lost and scattered everywhere, so they're not just who we consider to be Jewish people, as the previous post said.

I think the rapture could be in 2012, when a shift in consciousness aligns with the precession of the equinoxes when we go into the age of Aquarius, supposedly closer to the center of the universe or God consciousness. Only time will tell, and just the thought of it is a reminder to stay positive!

I am personally trying to love God as the Most High Supreme Creator of all. And in my aspiration, I see how His causeless mercy has given us free will to choose if we want to acknowledge or ignore Him. And if God is that merciful, it makes sense that He would also be just as merciful to save those who choose to love Him from Satan's tribulation.

At the same time, I try to be humble to the fact that I can only do whatever God wants for me, and I am not really in control...God is the supreme controller. Save me or slay me, whatever is Your Divine Will.

[hw spartan]

The 144,000
hahaha dont mention that, or you will end up like
"Waco"..renember Waco, Alex Jones did a special when he rebuilt there church.
Waco, was a hit on that particaullar religion, because of the 144,000
you see, the people who got killed at Waco, where a broken away splinter religion, who ONLY study JC second comeing and the 144,000 in particalar

very dangerous to any evil on earth, to start a whole new religion based on the 144,000


personally, im not saying what 144,000 is apart from the waco.
if you think the 144,000 and JC aint real,,,,,,why the waco incedint
i dont want to go off topic...but.....
you should never separate Jesus and the 144,000, its about the second comeing, and killing evil, the 144,000 and JC are christianities\mans last hope to be with God....in respect.

:cool:

[eternal_spirit]

IMO - the Bible and the 2012 ascension are both psyops. Those that don't believe the Bible prophecies may fall for the New Age ascension theory. (the believers will be saved the none believers will not)

Both are false hopes and lies to distract people from taking responsibility to make changes. The believers are putting faith in outside forces to change things, and TPTB know this and can carry on implementing the NWO. Jesus will not return and put all their wrongs to right.

The tribes is a way to justify certain groups/religions/maybe races that they are God's chosen ones. It's a huge lie and gives them a false sense of superiority over other people.

The book of Revelations is a long term business plan, not by God, but by men. They planned what's written a long time ago, and will make sure these things happen they have the power to do this.

And when these things from Revelations come to pass (mostly allegory - so they can interpret certain quotes from the texts to fit with what's happening to make it look like prophecy) Example - Famine, wars, floods, earth quakes droughts, plagues/viruses (HAARP are all man made nothing to do with an angy God)

The book of Revelations is along term business plan (hard to believe for some because we're told it was written a long time ago) It may well have only been written recently.

Same can be said for many other prophecies not in the religious books, if you know the past and the future plans of TPTB you can sure predict the future:rolleyes:.

Besides they can easily cook the History books and change the dates of predictions, to suit their agendas, the people of the present day would be none the wiser.

If you believe in Atlantis or some advanced civilization
in the past that was as advanced or more advanced than ours. Then they would have had technologies such as HAARP, nuclear energy/ atom bombs etc, which may have wiped out that civilization either by war, or accident.

They would have no problem beaming holographic images and voices into peoples minds (who thought God/angels/demons where channelling telepathic messages to them ) Some of the holy texts may have been written this way.

There's many stories about the so called voices of God dictating to men (a man/priest hiding in a huge Buddha statue pretending to be the voice of God is one)

Also hypnosis, ventriloquism and hallucinogens played a part in this.
There's nothing new under sun applies. The game plan has always been based on Masters, slavery and usury.

[madthumbs]

about the "rapture" or "catching away" that's presented in the bible. Has anyone ever thought that the rapture might have something to do with the galactic alignment/upheaval/earth changes that is supposed to be coming, on/near/or around 2012?

Read in context for yourself this misunderstood so called prophecy:

Luke 17
22 And He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 “They will say to you, ‘Look there! Look here!’ Do not go away, and do not run after them. 24 “For just like the lightning, when it flashes out of one part of the sky, shines to the other part of the sky, so will the Son of Man be in His day. 25 “But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 “And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 “It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building; 29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 “It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed. 31 “On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back. 32 “Remember Lot’s wife. 33 “Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 “I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 “There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left. 36 [“Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left.”] 37 And answering they said to Him, “Where, Lord?” And He said to them, “Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered.”

[eternal_spirit]

Read in context for yourself this misunderstood so called prophecy:

Luke 17

Your point? That the believers will be save and the none believers damned?

[madthumbs]

Your point? That the believers will be save and the none believers damned?

Read again without being led.

[amethyst]

IMO - the Bible and the 2012 ascension are both psyops. Those that don't believe the Bible prophecies may fall for the New Age ascension theory. (the believers will be saved the none believers will not)

Both are false hopes and lies to distract people from taking responsibility to make changes. The believers are putting faith in outside forces to change things, and TPTB know this and can carry on implementing the NWO. Jesus will not return and put all their wrongs to right.

The tribes is a way to justify certain groups/religions/maybe races that they are God's chosen ones. It's a huge lie and gives them a false sense of superiority over other people.

The book of Revelations is a long term business plan, not by God, but by men. They planned what's written a long time ago, and will make sure these things happen they have the power to do this.

And when these things from Revelations come to pass (mostly allegory - so they can interpret certain quotes from the texts to fit with what's happening to make it look like prophecy) Example - Famine, wars, floods, earth quakes droughts, plagues/viruses (HAARP are all man made nothing to do with an angy God)

The book of Revelations is along term business plan (hard to believe for some because we're told it was written a long time ago) It may well have only been written recently.

Same can be said for many other prophecies not in the religious books, if you know the past and the future plans of TPTB you can sure predict the future:rolleyes:.

Besides they can easily cook the History books and change the dates of predictions, to suit their agendas, the people of the present day would be none the wiser.

If you believe in Atlantis or some advanced civilization
in the past that was as advanced or more advanced than ours. Then they would have had technologies such as HAARP, nuclear energy/ atom bombs etc, which may have wiped out that civilization either by war, or accident.

They would have no problem beaming holographic images and voices into peoples minds (who thought God/angels/demons where channelling telepathic messages to them ) Some of the holy texts may have been written this way.

There's many stories about the so called voices of God dictating to men (a man/priest hiding in a huge Buddha statue pretending to be the voice of God is one)

Also hypnosis, ventriloquism and hallucinogens played a part in this.
There's nothing new under sun applies. The game plan has always been based on Masters, slavery and usury.

And you come to these conclusions how?

If anyone uses their brain and studies what the scriptures actually say,
they would realise that of course the false christ (the antichrist) comes first on the world scene, before the real Christ is prophesied to return sometime afterwards.

And BTW, the term "rapture" is never found in the bible.

[turquoisefire777]

David Icke and others think (and i may ascribe too) that there is a dividing of the people happening on earth: to put it in biblical terms: dividing the sheep from the goats.


hmmm...i have a feeling i'm going to make the same kind of post like this more than once on this site.

anyways,

read here:

Luke 12:49-59 (NLT)
Jesus Causes Division
49 “I have come to set the world on fire, and I wish it were already burning!50 I have a terrible baptism of suffering ahead of me, and I am under a heavy burden until it is accomplished.
51 Do you think I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I have come to divide people against each other! 52 From now on families will be split apart, three in favor of me, and two against—or two in favor and three against. 53 ‘Father will be divided against son and son against father; mother against daughter and daughter against mother; and mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.’*”



and here:

Jesus The Spiritual Warrior (http://www.canng.com/articles/jesus_warrior.htm)

70. I have come not to bring peace upon the world. I have come to cast conflict and division upon the earth. Father will be against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, and brothers against sisters. This is because in many families there will be some of those who are of the Light and others who are of Darkness. This has nothing to do with one’s belief — it has to do with his essence.

War of Essences (http://www.canng.com/articles/war_of_essences.htm)

It is now time to reveal more about the War of Essences, however, this is still an extremely simplified explanation so that the physical mind can comprehend it to some extent.

The war between Light and Darkness was started by Darkness when It invaded the Light. Many beings of Light have been encased in Evil as a result of the unprovoked invasion of the Light by Darkness.

This all commenced when the Celestial Error occurred. The Error refused Divine Correction and separated Itself from the Mother and wanted to form Its own Mock Creation. The Error eventually evolved into a horrible monster that refused the Mother's Love. Thereafter, the Error formed Its own Mock Creation.

After the Celestial Error, the Mother continued to pour Her Love into the Error hoping to retrieve and correct the Error. As long as the Mother poured Her Love into the Error while going deeper and deeper into the Error, the Error gained power. As the Error gained power, It became more and more arrogant and deluded. Ultimately, It began to think that It was the Ultimate and that It was self-sustaining. However, It will cease to exist when the Mother's energy is totally withdrawn from It.


Separation of Light From Darkness Has Finally Begun (http://www.canng.com/articles/separation.html)
The separation of the True Light from Darkness has commenced. Evil will now be expressing more and more as the separation continues.



Could that be what's meant in the bible by a "new heaven and new earth" for those who are able to ascend with this earth into a paradise state? After all, we know that humans are spiritual beings and we have a "higher self" which helps us grow spiritually. Why wouldn't the Earth have a "higher self" too? Could it be that Earth is changing it's vibration to a higher one and only those who change with it will be going into a "paradise earth condition" too? I don't know if anyone will understand the point i'm trying to make, but I hope so....

i'd suggest you check out my thread here:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=493432&posted=1#post493432

and get hold of Lynn Grabhorn's books "Dear God! What's happening to us?"
and "Planet Two"

that should give the answers you are looking for...


Also, does anyone know the significance of the 144,000 in a non-religious sense, i.e., in a metaphysical sense?


in one of the video's on ShaylerTV (http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=ShaylerTV) David Shayler mentions that the 144,000 is the number of Christ Consciousness (incarnations?) working on this planet...

[jos08]

IMO - the Bible and the 2012 ascension are both psyops. Those that don't believe the Bible prophecies may fall for the New Age ascension theory. (the believers will be saved the none believers will not)

Both are false hopes and lies to distract people from taking responsibility to make changes. The believers are putting faith in outside forces to change things, and TPTB know this and can carry on implementing the NWO. Jesus will not return and put all their wrongs to right.

The tribes is a way to justify certain groups/religions/maybe races that they are God's chosen ones. It's a huge lie and gives them a false sense of superiority over other people.

The book of Revelations is a long term business plan, not by God, but by men. They planned what's written a long time ago, and will make sure these things happen they have the power to do this.

And when these things from Revelations come to pass (mostly allegory - so they can interpret certain quotes from the texts to fit with what's happening to make it look like prophecy) Example - Famine, wars, floods, earth quakes droughts, plagues/viruses (HAARP are all man made nothing to do with an angy God)

The book of Revelations is along term business plan (hard to believe for some because we're told it was written a long time ago) It may well have only been written recently.

Same can be said for many other prophecies not in the religious books, if you know the past and the future plans of TPTB you can sure predict the future:rolleyes:.

Besides they can easily cook the History books and change the dates of predictions, to suit their agendas, the people of the present day would be none the wiser.

If you believe in Atlantis or some advanced civilization
in the past that was as advanced or more advanced than ours. Then they would have had technologies such as HAARP, nuclear energy/ atom bombs etc, which may have wiped out that civilization either by war, or accident.

They would have no problem beaming holographic images and voices into peoples minds (who thought God/angels/demons where channelling telepathic messages to them ) Some of the holy texts may have been written this way.

There's many stories about the so called voices of God dictating to men (a man/priest hiding in a huge Buddha statue pretending to be the voice of God is one)

Also hypnosis, ventriloquism and hallucinogens played a part in this.
There's nothing new under sun applies. The game plan has always been based on Masters, slavery and usury.

I'm with you 99% on what you have written in this post but what about other religion books, such as torat and quran etc... there is something more powerful than man and it has to be god or gods or maybe super human beings, I mean who knows. I believe that something has to happen and it just can't carry on like this forever.

[1977]

hmmm...i have a feeling i'm going to make the same kind of post like this more than once on this site.

Jesus The Spiritual Warrior (http://www.canng.com/articles/jesus_warrior.htm)
I would really like to know where Amitakh Stanford gets her information. It seems heavily indebted to Manichaean Gnosticism but still seems to be a lot of effort for someone to just make up out of their own imagination.

[tejas]

IMO - the Bible and the 2012 ascension are both psyops. Those that don't believe the Bible prophecies may fall for the New Age ascension theory. (the believers will be saved the none believers will not)

Both are false hopes and lies to distract people from taking responsibility to make changes. The believers are putting faith in outside forces to change things, and TPTB know this and can carry on implementing the NWO. Jesus will not return and put all their wrongs to right.

The tribes is a way to justify certain groups/religions/maybe races that they are God's chosen ones. It's a huge lie and gives them a false sense of superiority over other people.

The book of Revelations is a long term business plan, not by God, but by men. They planned what's written a long time ago, and will make sure these things happen they have the power to do this.

And when these things from Revelations come to pass (mostly allegory - so they can interpret certain quotes from the texts to fit with what's happening to make it look like prophecy) Example - Famine, wars, floods, earth quakes droughts, plagues/viruses (HAARP are all man made nothing to do with an angy God)

The book of Revelations is along term business plan (hard to believe for some because we're told it was written a long time ago) It may well have only been written recently.

Same can be said for many other prophecies not in the religious books, if you know the past and the future plans of TPTB you can sure predict the future:rolleyes:.

Besides they can easily cook the History books and change the dates of predictions, to suit their agendas, the people of the present day would be none the wiser.

If you believe in Atlantis or some advanced civilization
in the past that was as advanced or more advanced than ours. Then they would have had technologies such as HAARP, nuclear energy/ atom bombs etc, which may have wiped out that civilization either by war, or accident.

They would have no problem beaming holographic images and voices into peoples minds (who thought God/angels/demons where channelling telepathic messages to them ) Some of the holy texts may have been written this way.

There's many stories about the so called voices of God dictating to men (a man/priest hiding in a huge Buddha statue pretending to be the voice of God is one)

Also hypnosis, ventriloquism and hallucinogens played a part in this.
There's nothing new under sun applies. The game plan has always been based on Masters, slavery and usury.

As an ex fundy christian I can say that you are exactly correct. There is a very real fundy-RAPTURE- culture going on with all the christians. They believe that we are living in the end times and that soon they will be raptured from the earth.

The book of revelations plus some vivid interpretations from various "cult" evangelicals like benny hinn, morris cerulo, etc etc (basically anyone on the GOD channel or TBN) provide basis for these believes.

BELEIVE IN THE RAPTURE IS DANGEROUS.

I dont know whats going on, but some real spritual deception is afoot with these fundy christians. Some very real spiritual beings are deceiving them in GREAT ways.

I dont think this is PSYOPS, i think the deception goes even higher than that , into the spirtual realms!

[turquoisefire777]

I would really like to know where Amitakh Stanford gets her information. It seems heavily indebted to Manichaean Gnosticism but still seems to be a lot of effort for someone to just make up out of their own imagination.


that's a very good question. i would say directly from the Divine?

Jesus The Rescuer (http://www.canng.com/articles/jesus_rescuer.htm)

Several Gnostic books were written concerning Jesus, and some remain relatively uncorrupted, however most are materially corrupted today. Jesus pointed out that the "God" of the Old Testament was not the God of Light, and He demonstrated it in many ways. He showed his disdain for fraud, murder and hypocrisy which the "God" of the Old Testament openly promoted by rewarding those such as Abraham, Sarah, Jacob, Rebecca, Lot and others for lying to kings, performing confidence games, deceiving their siblings, and having incestuous relationships with their children. Jesus demonstrated that the "God" of the Old Testament was in fact the Devil — who symbolically signifies the epitome of Darkness. The "God" of the Old Testament is a god who rules by fear and condemnation. He is such an insecure "God" that he openly declares that he is a jealous god and his acts confirm that he is an abusive and jealous god.

[1977]

I dont think this is PSYOPS, i think the deception goes even higher than that , into the spirtual realms!
I agree. This New Age "Rapture" stuff always comes from channelers, and I have never encountered any channeled material that was not composed of the most outrageous lies and fictions calculated to engage people's innermost fears and desires.

[drael]

144,000 is a numerological reference, as is all of the numbers in relevations.

Christian beleif in "rapture" is the same kind of misunderstanding that we find in things like the mayan prophecies which are the basis for 2012.

It takes a special ear to hear what these prophecies refer to...

[madthumbs]

People who believe in this dangerous rapture nonsense can't even agree on pre-trib, post trib, or during trib. 37,000+ denominations can't agree on who Jesus is, but the Bible makes it clear that he supports slavery, infant genital mutilation, racism, etc. -all I need to know!