Attain a mind that abides nowhere [Archive] - David Icke's Official Forums

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orbandsceptre27

17-10-2008, 02:51 AM

Nothing exists outside the mind

drael

17-10-2008, 11:46 AM

But does the mind exist?

noomrise22

17-10-2008, 03:04 PM

Drael, that was such a hilariously true statement that it made me make my first post. That response gave me a good laugh and it is completely accurate.

tejas

17-10-2008, 03:16 PM

Does anything really exist?

orbandsceptre27

18-10-2008, 04:01 AM

But does the mind exist?

Good question -

Yes it does - The mind creates the phenomenal world in which we live/exist. Unfortunately, most people are attached to their minds` which are only a tiny part of who we are.

Reality and existence are two completely different things. Something may exist, but it may not be real. i.e A hologram of an individual is illusory, it is not the individual, but it exists. "Hell" may exist for an individual but it is only that individuals perception of reality, as is "heaven."

An individual can exist in an illusory world - they may believe they are not loved, this may not be real/truthful but it is this individuals perception of reality - It is their "existence". The fault lies in the individuals mind which creates the phenomenal existence in question.

So what exactly is real?

No thing.

sirlozo

18-10-2008, 06:10 AM

Good question -

Yes it does - The mind creates the phenomenal world in which we live/exist. Unfortunately, most people are attached to their minds` which are only a tiny part of who we are.

Reality and existence are two completely different things. Something may exist, but it may not be real. i.e A hologram of an individual is illusory, it is not the individual, but it exists. "Hell" may exist for an individual but it is only that individuals perception of reality, as is "heaven."

An individual can exist in an illusory world - they may believe they are not loved, this may not be real/truthful but it is this individuals perception of reality - It is their "existence". The fault lies in the individuals mind which creates the phenomenal existence in question.

So what exactly is real?

No thing.
You are absolutely right my friend.

simplify

18-10-2008, 06:28 AM

But does the mind exist?

oh...this is one of those go around in circles topic, that I can drive myself crazy with.:D Drael, good question, if mind creates everything we see around us, then how do we define mind? Is mind simply ego? If so, how did ego come into being? We have many ego's or I's all seeking to express their particular desires. So I wonder if mind & ego are one and the same? I'll leave it at that, starting to go round in circles again:D

godspeed

18-10-2008, 06:21 PM

its only a dream...

danster82

18-10-2008, 07:59 PM

But does the mind exist?

Exactly humanity is constantly referring to the mind and yet what is the mind?

So what your saying is nothing exists outside of something that has no real existence. Think about it what is mind? is it your thoughts.. no , is it your brain? no.. sp what then

danster82

18-10-2008, 08:04 PM

orbandsceptre27

18-10-2008, 08:07 PM

oh...this is one of those go around in circles topic, that I can drive myself crazy with.:D Drael, good question, if mind creates everything we see around us, then how do we define mind? Is mind simply ego? If so, how did ego come into being? We have many ego's or I's all seeking to express their particular desires. So I wonder if mind & ego are one and the same? I'll leave it at that, starting to go round in circles again:D

I see the ego as a false personality, an attachment of "the self" to the mind. The ego is superficial and when an individual is coming from ego then he/she is "being" superficial - living a false reality.

Unfortunately this shallow existence is promoted in nearly all avenues of life, especially through the media and entertainment. Women seem to be the greatest casualties here as many women tend to dwell heavily on appearance (becoming attached) - the latest trends and fashions. Don`t get me wrong it`s great to look good, but if it means strenghtening the ego/false self, then life is lived from this superficial level. There is much pressure on girls from an early age to be "in the click," to be attractive for the opposite sex and this illusion is fueled by the cosmetics/fashion industries - massive mind manipulation!

People are still looking outside themselves for "the answers." We go to psychologists and psychiatrists in the hope of becoming "fixed." Common themes are, "I want to be happier in myself/proud of myself. I don`t want to hate myself anymore/I`d like to have a better relationship with myself."

Do you see the delemma here? Eckhart Tolle points it out time and time again. Humanity is living a dysfunctional existence. Mankind has fragmented the self - "I" want to be happy in "my self." There is only one self. i.e "I" don`t want to be ashamed of "my-self." BUT HOW AM I NOT MY-SELF? (I am myself).

Note in the film "I Heart Huckabees" where Jude Laws character begins to become awakened. The lady asks - "what do you think would happen if you didn`t tell the stories? ARE YOU BEING YOURSELF?

Jude Law replies, "How am I not myself!" and with this statement begins his awakening. He realises he is not his "false ego" but a whole being - He is himself - a massive realisation for the self-obsessed character at this time in the film.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqgpn87hFYc

So nobody has to be happy in them-selves/proud of themselves - angry/sad or ashamed of them-selves. This is the "self-obsessive" madness we have grown up with and humanity must deal with this NOW.

We are ourselves - "To be or not to be," as Shakespeare put it. If you want love - be it, be loving and others will show it back, and so what if they don`t. You "are" love, or you "are not" - this is everyones choice.

orbandsceptre27

19-10-2008, 10:20 AM

Exactly humanity is constantly referring to the mind and yet what is the mind?

So what your saying is nothing exists outside of something that has no real existence. Think about it what is mind? is it your thoughts.. no , is it your brain? no.. sp what then

"Mind" is only a word that describes a level of consciousness which creates form. Formlessness exists "outside" of the mind. Trying to understand formlessness "with the mind" is like trying to pick up mercury with a fork.

So nothing (no thing) can exist outside of the mind.

xpleet

19-10-2008, 10:46 AM

All truth blossoms outside of the mind.

orbandsceptre27

19-10-2008, 10:55 AM

All truth blossoms outside of the mind.

So true :)

danster82

19-10-2008, 11:34 AM

"Mind" is only a word that describes a level of consciousness which creates form. Formlessness exists "outside" of the mind. Trying to understand formlessness "with the mind" is like trying to pick up mercury with a fork.

So nothing (no thing) can exist outside of the mind.

yes I understand what your saying here and yet your whole description is exactly that a concept (form) for what mind is, so mind is now a level of consciousness but nothing has changed here they are both beliefs, concepts.
So then I could say ok whats a level of consciousness and you could give me yet another description of that which would also be a concept and belief and so it goes round in a cyclical trap. There is no mind or consciousness they are just description but my sentence there is also a description because I am in the same trap. So the thing we are trying to do is throw away everything everything! and then we hopefully realize the formless reality.

Also consider your own contradictions in this trap causes.

So nothing (no thing) can exist outside of the mind.

"All truth blossoms outside of the mind."
So true

And if all truth blossoms outside of the mind then what is mind if its not truth? it simply cannot exist its not real

orbandsceptre27

19-10-2008, 01:31 PM

yes I understand what your saying here and yet your whole description is exactly that a concept (form) for what mind is, so mind is now a level of consciousness but nothing has changed here they are both beliefs, concepts.
So then I could say ok whats a level of consciousness and you could give me yet another description of that which would also be a concept and belief and so it goes round in a cyclical trap. There is no mind or consciousness they are just description but my sentence there is also a description because I am in the same trap. So the thing we are trying to do is throw away everything everything! and then we hopefully realize the formless reality.

Also consider your own contradictions in this trap causes.

"All truth blossoms outside of the mind."

And if all truth blossoms outside of the mind then what is mind if its not truth? it simply cannot exist its not real

You say, "I understand what your saying here" - and then go on to give a description of why you don`t understand alot of whats been said.

I`ll begin where you finished - You said I`ve contradicted what I`ve already stated by agreeing with Xpleets, "All truth blossoms outside of the mind." I haven`t been contradictory at all. By saying, "Nothing can exist outside of the mind," I`m talking about formlessness. The mind creates, shapes and forms yet it cannot understand formlessness.

Truth to me is intangible/formless, it is no thing. Unfortunately humanity has sought to shape truth to suit its own ends. Many different religions claim to be "the one true faith." Humanity has looked blindly on how wise men and women have lived and beaten and shaped "their truth" into different forms/religions (thus losing it) when truth is formless. In fact there are now many different forms of Christianity alone proclaiming they are the one truth. This is all mind madness. As I`ve been saying the truth is intangible, it is formless, no one man (or faith) can lay claim to it, it is beyond the mind - it is no thing!

I agree with much of what you`ve said in your first paragraph. Yes my description, like yours, is a concept. It has to be when we are communicating through the mind. Yes the mind is a level of consciousness, it can be described in many different ways. But is it real? - how can it be, when no thing is real! It exists as a level of consciousness in humanity but as more and more people begin to detach from "self identification" this will all change.

danster82

19-10-2008, 05:37 PM

You say, "I understand what your saying here" - and then go on to give a description of why you don`t understand alot of whats been said.

I`ll begin where you finished - You said I`ve contradicted what I`ve already stated by agreeing with Xpleets, "All truth blossoms outside of the mind." I haven`t been contradictory at all. By saying, "Nothing can exist outside of the mind," I`m talking about formlessness. The mind creates, shapes and forms yet it cannot understand formlessness.

Truth to me is intangible/formless, it is no thing. Unfortunately humanity has sought to shape truth to suit its own ends. Many different religions claim to be "the one true faith." Humanity has looked blindly on how wise men and women have lived and beaten and shaped "their truth" into different forms/religions (thus losing it) when truth is formless. In fact there are now many different forms of Christianity alone proclaiming they are the one truth. This is all mind madness. As I`ve been saying the truth is intangible, it is formless, no one man (or faith) can lay claim to it, it is beyond the mind - it is no thing!

I agree with much of what you`ve said in your first paragraph. Yes my description, like yours, is a concept. It has to be when we are communicating through the mind. Yes the mind is a level of consciousness, it can be described in many different ways. But is it real? - how can it be, when no thing is real! It exists as a level of consciousness in humanity but as more and more people begin to detach from "self identification" this will all change.

Yes but your still creating separation between mind and truth, mind is just another concept a "level of consciousness" is also just another concept so how do you refer to these concept as if they were absolute truths?

Truth is all there is so you cannot say here on one side is the mind and here on the other side is truth this is division again not oneness.

orbandsceptre27

19-10-2008, 06:45 PM

Yes but your still creating separation between mind and truth, mind is just another concept a "level of consciousness" is also just another concept so how do you refer to these concept as if they were absolute truths?

Truth is all there is so you cannot say here on one side is the mind and here on the other side is truth this is division again not oneness.

I am highlighting a perceived separation which many people believe to be real.

So you don`t acknowledge the existence of mind in humanity?