Waking Up Whom?

[zen_fox]

The sheeple are already as awake as they come. They're stupid, not asleep. The neo-conservatives believe this because it's true. They need religion and fake elections to appease them. The elite don't care about being exposed because the conditioned minds of the sheeple hears the words "conspiracy theory" and they dredge up a lifetime of responses, emotions, and conditions. You can't wake them up. There's nothing to wake them up to. They are zombies, not sheeple. They are the walking dead, easily lead and controlled, easily appeased. It's true they have been purposefully dumbed down by media and so-called education, but they are beyond redemption. They don't want to be intelligent. They don't want to be woken up. They don't want to expand their consciousness. They want to be told what to do. They want to be coddled by their government, lied to by their media, and manipulated by their religions. They don't posses important decision making faculties. They cannot perform critical thinking tasks. They are reactionary, not rational. They are emotive, not logical. Without the desired motivation to learn these skills, no amount of exposure or debunking will ever be able to give it to them. They must seek it on their own. They must teach themselves.

[unusual_suspect]

You do have a point, why is it though that some people will always be seeple and some are not, do you have any ideas?

[zen_fox]

There is a thing called conditioned helplessness. Experimenters would set up a test involving rats. The rats would be shocked whenever they crossed to the other side of the enclosure they were in. Eventually the experimenters learned that the rats would no longer cross to the other side of the enclosure even without the shocks. This is conditioned helplessness. However, some of the rats would never accept their programming and would continually attempt to cross over to the other side.

It's what George Carlin said. Critical thinking is discouraged. What the status quo wants is obedient workers, not rational thinkers. The elite are made of nihilistic power mongers who haphazardly call themselves philosophers, ruling over others through their intellect. Only intelligent individuals can fathom their plans. Only free thinkers can actually believe it. The two are not mutually coexistent.

Why pump so much money into aspartame and fluoride in the water? It's been shown to lower the intelligence of individuals. Most of the dumb people are willfully ignorant. They could choose to educate themselves. Even with little money one can purchase a sizable library or research on the internet. Nearly everyone can develop their minds but choose not to.

[middleway00]

so what do we do zenfox? where do we fit into this picture? is it indeed true that we are not the picture, but the seer?

what role in life do we play?

[unusual_suspect]

so what do we do zenfox? where do we fit into this picture? is it indeed true that we are not the picture, but the seer?

what role in life do we play?

That's the question I keep asking myself, you can try to talk to people about "the truth", it doesn't usually go very well.

[zen_fox]

That's the question I keep asking myself, you can try to talk to people about "the truth", it doesn't usually go very well.

I think some people are so starved for intelligent debate that when they get it they cling to it like a life raft. I know that there is virtually no amount of intelligent conversation on a lot of forums and that you hear none on television. The only place I've been able to ever fill my need has been at a university and only in the philosophy department. Occasionally, I'll find some loan straggler like myself. Some washed out hermit able to discuss ontology without it turning into a shouting match.

I've often thought that the actions of the Illuminati are human made survival of the fittest. Those too stupid to know to avoid junk food, fluoride, and aspartame will be killed off. With the skies, the water, the radio waves, the pollution, the radioactive nuclear power plants, the poisoned food, and prescription drugs the healthiest and richest are the most likely to thrive. Maybe they feel that there are some people who would have never made it "naturally" and feel the need to take the place of nature.

[oiram]

The sheeple are already as awake as they come. They're stupid, not asleep. The neo-conservatives believe this because it's true. They need religion and fake elections to appease them. The elite don't care about being exposed because the conditioned minds of the sheeple hears the words "conspiracy theory" and they dredge up a lifetime of responses, emotions, and conditions. You can't wake them up. There's nothing to wake them up to. They are zombies, not sheeple. They are the walking dead, easily lead and controlled, easily appeased. It's true they have been purposefully dumbed down by media and so-called education, but they are beyond redemption. They don't want to be intelligent. They don't want to be woken up. They don't want to expand their consciousness. They want to be told what to do. They want to be coddled by their government, lied to by their media, and manipulated by their religions. They don't posses important decision making faculties. They cannot perform critical thinking tasks. They are reactionary, not rational. They are emotive, not logical. Without the desired motivation to learn these skills, no amount of exposure or debunking will ever be able to give it to them. They must seek it on their own. They must teach themselves.Yes I am with you on this & I feel the same way! Sheeples are un trainable!

I have only one last backup solution for all the ones which really have enough of these sick Sheeples and system!

Let's organize a special forum where all logical free thinkers can communicate and join there forces and resources we have in this materialistic world!
Find enough people and we buy a big enough Island and create our own world we have in mind! No money no stupid religions organizations no discrimination!
This is a long time dream I have!
All we need is enough people with different skills and this can be made reality!

How many people we need 1000>2000>5000>10000 ???

Anyone interested??

[middleway00]

I think some people are so starved for intelligent debate that when they get it they cling to it like a life raft. I know that there is virtually no amount of intelligent conversation on a lot of forums and that you hear none on television. The only place I've been able to ever fill my need has been at a university and only in the philosophy department. Occasionally, I'll find some loan straggler like myself. Some washed out hermit able to discuss ontology without it turning into a shouting match.

I've often thought that the actions of the Illuminati are human made survival of the fittest. Those too stupid to know to avoid junk food, fluoride, and aspartame will be killed off. With the skies, the water, the radio waves, the pollution, the radioactive nuclear power plants, the poisoned food, and prescription drugs the healthiest and richest are the most likely to thrive. Maybe they feel that there are some people who would have never made it "naturally" and feel the need to take the place of nature.

maybe you think too much?:p

[unusual_suspect]

the healthiest and richest are the most likely to thrive. Maybe they feel that there are some people who would have never made it "naturally" and feel the need to take the place of nature.

Some people are definitely more equal than others.

Do you think that if you are an awake person/outsider that you have always been different to one of the sheeple. I personally do, I reckon you are born that way.

[middleway00]

Yes I am with you on this & I feel the same way! Sheeples are untraineble!

I have only one last backup solution for all the ones which really have enough of these sick Sheeples and system!

Let's organize a special forum where all logical free thinkers can communicate and join there forces and resources we have in this materialistic world!
Find enough people and we buy a big enough Island and create our own world we have in mind! No money no stupid religions organizations no discrimination!
This is a long time dream I have!
All we need is enough people with different skills and this can be made reality!

Count me in.:)

[unusual_suspect]

Yes I am with you on this & I feel the same way! Sheeples are un trainable!

I have only one last backup solution for all the ones which really have enough of these sick Sheeples and system!

Let's organize a special forum where all logical free thinkers can communicate and join there forces and resources we have in this materialistic world!
Find enough people and we buy a big enough Island and create our own world we have in mind! No money no stupid religions organizations no discrimination!
This is a long time dream I have!
All we need is enough people with different skills and this can be made reality!

How many people we need 1000>2000>5000>10000 ???

Anyone interested??

I'm up for it :)

[particlezen]

this is like kicking the shit out of a caterpillar for not being able to fly.

[oiram]

Can not find a real big Island!
http://www.caribbeanislandbrokers.com/listings_images/2999_t.jpg (http://www.caribbeanislandbrokers.com/islands-for-sale)
http://www.caribbeanislandbrokers.com/islands-for-sale

Also I can not find anyone having a idea like this & is looking for people!

Maybe we could all look if there are any sides working on such project!

Also any big Islands which are for sale and have all the nature to support Human life animals farming ...etc !

[micklemus]

The sheeple are already as awake as they come. They're stupid, not asleep. The neo-conservatives believe this because it's true. They need religion and fake elections to appease them. The elite don't care about being exposed because the conditioned minds of the sheeple hears the words "conspiracy theory" and they dredge up a lifetime of responses, emotions, and conditions. You can't wake them up. There's nothing to wake them up to. They are zombies, not sheeple. They are the walking dead, easily lead and controlled, easily appeased. It's true they have been purposefully dumbed down by media and so-called education, but they are beyond redemption. They don't want to be intelligent. They don't want to be woken up. They don't want to expand their consciousness. They want to be told what to do. They want to be coddled by their government, lied to by their media, and manipulated by their religions. They don't posses important decision making faculties. They cannot perform critical thinking tasks. They are reactionary, not rational. They are emotive, not logical. Without the desired motivation to learn these skills, no amount of exposure or debunking will ever be able to give it to them. They must seek it on their own. They must teach themselves.

Good luck mate. I tried starting a similar thread some time ago and was so hounded that I stepped away from this forum for ages. Most people (and I'm afraid I include most people here) don't "get it".

I shall watch this thread with interest.

[middleway00]

Can not find a real big Island!
http://www.caribbeanislandbrokers.com/listings_images/2999_t.jpg (http://www.caribbeanislandbrokers.com/islands-for-sale)
http://www.caribbeanislandbrokers.com/islands-for-sale

Also I can not find anyone having a idea like this & is looking for people!

Maybe we could all look if there are any sides working on such project!

Also any big Islands which are for sale and have all the nature to support Human life animals farming ...etc !

a large property with shoreline would be much cheaper and provider greater acreage. :)

[haukipesukone]

I think some people are so starved for intelligent debate that when they get it they cling to it like a life raft.

That's so true. There are few instances where I've had that in recent times. What should I do so I can have another fix? Tell my friends "hey, let's have an intelligent conversation about something that really matters"? I doubt that'd work.


The only way to wake up many of the sheeple is by tragedy. If you take Joe Average with a nice house, family and job. Then take them all away brutally he might actually realize how wrong he had always been, and start doing something. Or just commit suicide.

So we should start creating chaos and mayhem to wake the sheeple up? If we were to do that we'd have to make it so blatant and significant in their private lives that they couldn't ignore it. Or they'd just fall deeper into sheephood.

Maybe you are right. Forsake the sheeple as an extinct species. They are that although they don't realize it yet.

Yes I am with you on this & I feel the same way! Sheeples are un trainable!

I have only one last backup solution for all the ones which really have enough of these sick Sheeples and system!

Let's organize a special forum where all logical free thinkers can communicate and join there forces and resources we have in this materialistic world!
Find enough people and we buy a big enough Island and create our own world we have in mind! No money no stupid religions organizations no discrimination!
This is a long time dream I have!
All we need is enough people with different skills and this can be made reality!

How many people we need 1000>2000>5000>10000 ???

Anyone interested??

I'd be very interested. It'd just be so easy for THEM to wipe us out if we'd all settle in the same place. I doubt they would just let us live in peace on our small island. It'd be so easy to bomb the whole island, and then either cover everything up or tell the public they just got rid of some insane suicide cult.

[jayelowell]

this is like kicking the shit out of a caterpillar for not being able to fly.:D

[bigus_dickus]

this is like kicking the shit out of a caterpillar for not being able to fly.

no, this is a caterpillar kicking the shit out of another caterpillar because it believes that it's the only one that can fly. (but still crawls as you can see, otherwise it would be flying)

[krakhead]

this is like kicking the shit out of a caterpillar for not being able to fly.

Absolutely!

I'm shocked by the superior attitude being expressed on here.

For a start I really dislike the term 'sheeple', if anything I would use 'sleeple'.

As for the idea that some people are 'untrainable' - WTF?! What are you - some sort of cosmic Cesar Millan?

You may well think that you are more aware of what IS going on in the world - but why do you feel the need to denegrate others who haven't reached your level of 'awareness'?

We're, each of us, on our own path through life. Allow others their mistakes, and hopefully they will allow you yours.

(and although this may appear aimed a specific poster - it isn't, just commenting on the general idea that somehow, some people are more worthy than others because they 'know stuff')

[jayelowell]

no, this is a caterpillar kicking the shit out of another caterpillar because it believes that it's the only one that can fly. (but still crawls as you can see, otherwise it would be flying)lol...

[haukipesukone]

I'm shocked by the superior attitude being expressed on here.

For a start I really dislike the term 'sheeple', if anything I would use 'sleeple'.


I don't really like the term sheeple either. It doesn't sound nice. Bit ackward.

I think most "sheeple" are not even interested in anything, they themselves are not interested in anything. They're interested in what the TV or some other false prophet preaches them.

As Jung said:
People will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own soul.
"Sheeple" are not people, they are images created by society. Maybe there's a person hiding somewhere under there, but unless they are willing to look for it they remain zombies worshipping the almighty society.

How are we supposed to help them, wake them up? They wish to remain in their illusion. Talking to them merely makes you feel bad and they hide even further into the illusion.

I should start adopting a more superior attitude. I never saw much point believing what any authority says. Many of the things that people take granted didn't make sense to me. But people just do whatever they do, because "it's the way it's done." No questions, no thinking.

Why am I different?

I've always felt like an outsider, because I didn't believe the bullshit everybody else believes. It made me feel like I was wrong, when in fact I was right, at least more right than anybody else. That's probably a major part of the reason I was depressed for 10 years. (Yeah, I've never thought about it like that. I really was depressed for about 10 years. Most of the time at least.)

All this crap in the world. Stock markets. There's money for wars and advertising, but not for the hungry in Africa. Reality TV. Pop Idols. You probably don't need all the evidence to catch my point.

Most people just accept that that's the way it is. And then they say we're free.

One simple thing. If media, government, society and everything else says when we have elections it's one person, one vote. Do you think it's reasonable to believe what they say is true? With no evidence at all? For me it certainly isn't. But my "more rational and scientific minded" friends accept it to be true. Why?

(Of course it wouldn't even matter if the elections worked as they are claimed to do. The point is, why believe something just because they say it is so?)


So why the fuck shouldn't I adopt a superior attitude? I'm clearly different. I was simply born different than them. There hasn't been any eye opening mystical experience in my life. Unless cats opened my eyes before I could even talk.

[particlezen]

in fact I was right, at least more right than anybody else....

...So why the fuck shouldn't I adopt a superior attitude? I'm clearly different. I was simply born different than them.

I'm surprised you didn't get stuck in the womb with an ego that size.

[haukipesukone]

I'm surprised you didn't get stuck in the womb with an ego that size.

Aren't you having a bad day today.

[r3sonator]

3 pages further and the original idea has been kicked away into exactly what the op doesn't want :rolleyes:

[particlezen]

Aren't you having a bad day today.

no, are you?

[antinwo]

Totally agree. No matter what you do you can never awaken those who are asleep unfortunately. I agree THE SLEEPLE is a much better term:D

[haukipesukone]

no, are you?

Hmm, actually I am disappointed that Cheney is still alive. Otherwise it's been an ok day.

[whiterain]

no, this is a caterpillar kicking the shit out of another caterpillar because it believes that it's the only one that can fly. (but still crawls as you can see, otherwise it would be flying)

haha great post couldnt agree more. the only difference is the information they are exposed to, their life experiences and the type of critical thinking level capable of. all things which we largely have little control over.

but yes your right not eveyone will wake up, but you cant blame them for it

[dooby]

I must also agree, some people do not want to "wake up", and applaud the "conditioned helplessness" analogy!

I'm not sure what to think when it comes to "waking" people up. From an early age, I delved into "alternative" theories, maybe due to my prophetic dreams. Without them, I wonder whether I'd be looking at the world in a strict logical and physical fashion. These dreams led on to researching the UFO phenomena, then ghosts, then inevitably led me to the "alternative media" and David Icke. It's been fascinating! However, if I hadn't been alerted to what's really going on in the world (or at least, the possibilities), I'd be believing everything the mainstream media said.

I've had a few goes at "waking" people up to the possibility that what we're told isn't completely true. Try to ease them into it. They don't want to know; I'm greeted with a combination of disinterest and anger (usually in the form of attempted humiliation). I'm questioning their conditioning, and they defend what the system feeds them with all their power.

I've learnt not to try to wake people so abruptly, as it could be seen as immoral. I will often try to "point" out with a sentence what's happening. If I get no response, or I'm met with apathy, it either means they've chosen to filter that information out, or maybe it's seeded in a very deep memory bank and may rear its ugly head at some point in the future! :)

I just don't put as much energy into it, as it can rebound and have the opposite effect.

[raptorialis]

What a tremendous load of tripe Zen_fox.

I never heard so much shit in my life.

Many of these good folk are born into social slavery. That's all they know, but that does not mean that's all they could know.

I came from a working class background too and i didn't know all this stuff i do now. The only way i have managed to stick my head above the parapit is because I worked, learnt and lost at the hands of some of the UK's top masons and Illuminati.

Don't put the ordinary man down. I would sooner stand with them on the battlefield than any of those so called intellectual awakened people.






The sheeple are already as awake as they come. They're stupid, not asleep. The neo-conservatives believe this because it's true. They need religion and fake elections to appease them. The elite don't care about being exposed because the conditioned minds of the sheeple hears the words "conspiracy theory" and they dredge up a lifetime of responses, emotions, and conditions. You can't wake them up. There's nothing to wake them up to. They are zombies, not sheeple. They are the walking dead, easily lead and controlled, easily appeased. It's true they have been purposefully dumbed down by media and so-called education, but they are beyond redemption. They don't want to be intelligent. They don't want to be woken up. They don't want to expand their consciousness. They want to be told what to do. They want to be coddled by their government, lied to by their media, and manipulated by their religions. They don't posses important decision making faculties. They cannot perform critical thinking tasks. They are reactionary, not rational. They are emotive, not logical. Without the desired motivation to learn these skills, no amount of exposure or debunking will ever be able to give it to them. They must seek it on their own. They must teach themselves.

[emanuel]

The sheeple are already as awake as they come. They're stupid, not asleep. The neo-conservatives believe this because it's true. They need religion and fake elections to appease them. The elite don't care about being exposed because the conditioned minds of the sheeple hears the words "conspiracy theory" and they dredge up a lifetime of responses, emotions, and conditions. You can't wake them up. There's nothing to wake them up to. They are zombies, not sheeple. They are the walking dead, easily lead and controlled, easily appeased. It's true they have been purposefully dumbed down by media and so-called education, but they are beyond redemption. They don't want to be intelligent. They don't want to be woken up. They don't want to expand their consciousness. They want to be told what to do. They want to be coddled by their government, lied to by their media, and manipulated by their religions. They don't posses important decision making faculties. They cannot perform critical thinking tasks. They are reactionary, not rational. They are emotive, not logical. Without the desired motivation to learn these skills, no amount of exposure or debunking will ever be able to give it to them. They must seek it on their own. They must teach themselves.

I havent read any responses to this, but I have to say.....

You need to pull your head out of your arse. Do not make the assumption that, because you are here, you are intelligent.

We are all zombies/sheeple, you just can't see it because you, like many here, suffer delusions of grandeur.

Considering your 'thought process' has made fuck all difference to anything that we all blabber on about, what right do you have to criticise and look down on those that do not share your way of thinking? None!

[dooby]

zen_fox states "They must teach themselves", which to me suggests he acknowledges people have the capability, but many do not have the want. They do not want to see the possibilities due to "conditioned helplessness".

He's not putting anybody down, he's just describing the condition. We've all seen it, and I'm certainly not suggesting I'm immune; I've been caught out again and again, and I'm still learning.

The way I see it, we're all in this together. We need to have compassion for each other; fallibility is the human condition :D

[emanuel]

"they must teach themselves"?! fuck the lot of you! what good have ANY of you done? what difference have you made? other than the amount of hot air being blown about about 'oh aren't we special because we can see we're being stitched up' (allegedly). I say allegedly because you have no more of a clue than the next. That's a fucking fact, you show me what the fuck difference any of you trumped up fuckers have made and I'll concede to the notion that the "sheeple" mentality is wrong or bad. :mad::mad::mad:

[dooby]

emanuel, it is a fact some do not want to look at reality, or possible realities, that's all. Personally, I'm not saying the "sheeple" mentality is wrong or bad. It just is.

Let's substitute the word "sheeple" with closed-mindedness. There are surely conspiracy "sheeple" out there, believing every conspiracy they're fed? What's the difference between a conspiracy "sheeple" and a mass media "sheeple"? Nothing :)

[emanuel]

emanuel, it is a fact some do not want to look at reality, or possible realities, that's all. Personally, I'm not saying the "sheeple" mentality is wrong or bad. It just is.

Let's substitute the word "sheeple" with closed-mindedness. There are surely conspiracy "sheeple" out there, believing every conspiracy they're fed? What's the difference between a conspiracy "sheeple" and a mass media "sheeple"? Nothing :)

Yes, but don't go thinking you, or anybody else, does not fall into one of the two 'catagories'.

[emanuel]

Yes I know! That's why I call it a dream!
At least we know that Freedom seeking Humans have a real enemy!

So what should we do with the enemy of Humanity?

The enemy is yourself!

[tyler]

We are all at different levels of awareness, higher and lower. I often wonder what level some of the people here are on!! Note how what could have been an interesting thread has been hijacked by a bunch of not too bright kids wanting to build a den on an island and bake potatoes in the campfire and catch tiddlers.

The best we can do as far as the unawakened are concerned is set them an example. If they see the way we behave in the midst of the coming disaster then they will be attracted to us and want what we have. We must be a beacon. A light to show them the way.

Most of us can remember the moment when something inside us clicked and we began to question all that we were taught. Some may have been born rebelling and thinking outside the box but very few, methinks.

It may take humanity hitting rock bottom before they realise that the way they have been living their lives is destroying them. In the meantime be patient. We do not condemn a small child for not knowing the ways of adults and for behaving like a child.

Be available when they come for help. Share what you have.

[emanuel]

We are all at different levels of awareness, higher and lower. I often wonder what level some of the people here are on!! Note how what could have been an interesting thread has been hijacked by a bunch of not too bright kids wanting to build a den on an island and bake potatoes in the campfire and catch tiddlers.

The best we can do as far as the unawakened are concerned is set them an example. If they see the way we behave in the midst of the coming disaster then they will be attracted to us and want what we have. We must be a beacon. A light to show them the way.

Most of us can remember the moment when something inside us clicked and we began to question all that we were taught. Some may have been born rebelling and thinking outside the box but very few, methinks.

It may take humanity hitting rock bottom before they realise that the way they have been living their lives is destroying them. In the meantime be patient. We do not condemn a small child for not knowing the ways of adults and for behaving like a child.

Be available when they come for help. Share what you have.

OMFG who the cock suck are you? You're looking down one big nose pal.

[oiram]

I'd be very interested. It'd just be so easy for THEM to wipe us out if we'd all settle in the same place. I doubt they would just let us live in peace on our small island. It'd be so easy to bomb the whole island, and then either cover everything up or tell the public they just got rid of some insane suicide cult.Yes I know! That's why I still call it a dream!
At least we know that logical thinking Freedom seeking Humans have a real enemy!

So what should we do with the enemy of Humanity?
Give them our left cheek then our right cheek & in the end we should forgive them because we trained stupid http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/sheepl.gif! No sorry never liked this groups of people & there illogical behavior & there way of thinking; never ever computes in my brain & I will fight it my way until I die!

Only http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/evil.gif him self would teach shit like this to thehttp://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/sheepl.gifhttp://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/sheep.gif; so http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/evil.gif evil doers getting away with there crimes!
So who the fuck is this Jesus figure they selling to the people in these organizations? 1 + 1 = 2

I stopped working because I don't agree & don't ever like to pay or support criminals! "Not by consent, rhetoric, manipulation or force"
That's what I don't understand that people don't show strong resistance to pay there taxes to bailout criminals & there organizations & all the Governments are supporting the criminals so what should this logically tells a normal thinking person???

That's right nothing because they not using there logic & it's not our responsibility to make them use there own logic; so should they die because of there ignorance; honestly I could not give a shit let them die by the millions! At least this maybe switches on there natural logic "Only Maybe??"http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/sheepl.gifhttp://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/sheep.gif

Governments proved clearly to all & even the none thinking http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/sheep.gif that they are not logic & are not working in the best interest of the enforced Tax paying working public!
One reason could be they are criminals them selfs working with the criminals & for the criminals! 1 + 1 = 2
No one bails me out if I fucked up in my work or life; actually they would put me in jail for it! So why does this only applies for normal working people & not for http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/evil.gif followers? Hah! 1 + 1 = 2

Anything which does not have logical thinking or does not use his God given logic & behaves like an ANIMAL IS a ANIMAL! Full stop period!
This has nothing to do with being smarter; it's just basic logic & all got blessed with this from birth! "Right or Wrong?"

The ones which support & agree to pay there hard earned money to criminal corrupt individuals just continue but "I don't & I will fight it my way & the next step is to take every cent out of there corrupt Banks & corrupt system!"

That's right Fuck all Criminals & there followinghttp://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/sheep.gif
Die! Fuckers! Die!............Stupidity & Ignorance will not protect you from logical judgment!


Where has all the money gone? (WHO, WHAT, WHY?)
Billions of pounds have been wiped off property values and share prices remain volatile, while the debt-laden banks are being bailed out.
But where has all this money gone?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7670313.stm

[raptorialis]

Logic is only ever any use if there is content to work with oiram.

You cannot chastise people who have been brainwashed by the systems they were born into.

Your own logic would not have been sufficient had you not had the direction to seek the knowledge that has lead you to your understanding.

Many people think the best about the world and not the worst by default.

For these people the evil goings on will be a huge surprise to them.

But it is not right that we dispise people for not being able to work out these patterns of deception.

[haukipesukone]

Many of these good folk are born into social slavery. That's all they know, but that does not mean that's all they could know.


We all are born into same slavery. Why are we here at least trying to make sense of it all? Some just love their cage too much.


Don't put the ordinary man down. I would sooner stand with them on the battlefield than any of those so called intellectual awakened people.


Yeah, you be a true hero. Stand with them in the front lines. They have all the moral back bone installed in them by the society that abuses them, whereas we're all bitter and judgemental here.

"they must teach themselves"?! fuck the lot of you! what good have ANY of you done? what difference have you made? other than the amount of hot air being blown about about 'oh aren't we special because we can see we're being stitched up' (allegedly). I say allegedly because you have no more of a clue than the next. That's a fucking fact, you show me what the fuck difference any of you trumped up fuckers have made and I'll concede to the notion that the "sheeple" mentality is wrong or bad. :mad::mad::mad:

Oh sorry. Since I'm not as good a "truther" as David Icke I should shut up and admit I'm the same crap as those who enjoy being used. I've been "awakened" only a few months.

I always had doubts about everything, but I guess a little while ago my ego grew enough to break the barriers around me.

About being totally clueless. Like I said earlier. Stock market. Advertisements. All the materialist hype.

Those things are something that even common sense says to be plain wrong. But most people accept them just because they are there.

I don't know exactly who or why they exist. Maybe there's no Illuminati, maybe they just came about by chance. But the fact is they are harmful. Most people don't even want to consider why we have them.

I may not have all the answers. I may have very few answers, maybe none. But I can say I can think for myself. Not completely freely, but I don't have to be bound by the logic prison enforced by society.

It's not easy to see your friends being imprisoned by their own minds. And there's nothing I can do. If I try to talk to them they usually ignore me. Or if they are willing to discuss they use all their energy and logic to prove that the status quo is right.

So thanks for being judgemental. And so fucking polite. Fuck you.

[haukipesukone]

The best we can do as far as the unawakened are concerned is set them an example. If they see the way we behave in the midst of the coming disaster then they will be attracted to us and want what we have. We must be a beacon. A light to show them the way.


Yes. That's true.


We do not condemn a small child for not knowing the ways of adults and for behaving like a child.


Indeed we don't. For me that is a key phrase, 'cause I think that children often are smarter and understand everything better than adults do. Adults have been conditioned, children still are able to think. I hope those children never grow up.

[zen_fox]

I want to say thank you for cursing and swearing at me. There isn't enough of that on the internet. These emotive reactions are what destroy any type of intellectual debate and exactly what I want to avoid.

I am better than them. I am more intelligent. They are less intelligent. Only ego points out another's ego but there is nothing wrong with having ego. You all have it. Just because you've learned to only respect humility because of your own insecurities does not mean my behavior must adapt to your expectation of how someone should be.

[krakhead]

I am better than them. I am more intelligent. They are less intelligent. Only ego points out another's ego but there is nothing wrong with having ego. You all have it. Just because you've learned to only respect humility because of your own insecurities does not mean my behavior must adapt to your expectation of how someone should be.

Using which measuring tool?

[zen_fox]

Using which measuring tool?

My own creation so course I do well. :D

It's basically to evaluate the person's intelligence based on level of awareness, analytical thinking, processing and recall, and creative thought and intuition. Going through school I knew many people able to achieve perfect scores who I considered to be dullards because schooling measures only processing and recall. This is unfair to the creative geniuses (the painters, poets, etc.). After all, education is about indoctrination not education. Education is what someone gains after they finish school.

[haukipesukone]

Only ego points out another's ego but there is nothing wrong with having ego. You all have it. Just because you've learned to only respect humility because of your own insecurities does not mean my behavior must adapt to your expectation of how someone should be.

Watching David Icke's videos sometimes I think his ego is a bit too large, but you know, I think he deserves to have a little bloated ego. He's been telling truths few have ever even considered. He's been ridiculed for it for years, but he got through it, and now people are recognizing he's been right all along.

If I read a comment here on this forum that seems a bit too egoistic it annoys me, but I don't dismiss it because of that. I look at what the person is actully saying.

I'd say humility is a virtue, as long as it doesn't drag you down. There's no point in being humble as a door mat.

I think too many people are judgemental just because someone doesn't conform to the norms of acceptable social behaviour. Society frowns emotional outbursts, so people tend to do that here as well. I think it's healthy to outburst every now and then.

Going through school I knew many people able to achieve perfect scores who I considered to be dullards because schooling measures only processing and recall. This is unfair to the creative geniuses (the painters, poets, etc.). After all, education is about indoctrination not education. Education is what someone gains after they finish school.


I get what you say 100%. I've been held back too because I suck at hollow memorization. I guess that makes me a "creative genius".

[spiritist]

We are all at different levels of awareness, higher and lower. I often wonder what level some of the people here are on!! Note how what could have been an interesting thread has been hijacked by a bunch of not too bright kids wanting to build a den on an island and bake potatoes in the campfire and catch tiddlers.

The best we can do as far as the unawakened are concerned is set them an example. If they see the way we behave in the midst of the coming disaster then they will be attracted to us and want what we have. We must be a beacon. A light to show them the way.

Most of us can remember the moment when something inside us clicked and we began to question all that we were taught. Some may have been born rebelling and thinking outside the box but very few, methinks.

It may take humanity hitting rock bottom before they realise that the way they have been living their lives is destroying them. In the meantime be patient. We do not condemn a small child for not knowing the ways of adults and for behaving like a child.

Be available when they come for help. Share what you have.

Agree with your words wholeheartedly tyler. Everybody is at a different stage of awakening, but all are on the same pathway. We're all in it together and we move forward as collective consciousness. We need to educate people and we need to open them up spiritually. And that includes the most dispicable.

[sebastian]

so what do we do zenfox? where do we fit into this picture? is it indeed true that we are not the picture, but the seer?

what role in life do we play?

Our role in life is to change our victim mentality

[haukipesukone]

Our role in life is to change our victim mentality

Yes.

[bigus_dickus]

I am better than them. I am more intelligent. They are less intelligent. Only ego points out another's ego but there is nothing wrong with having ego. You all have it. Just because you've learned to only respect humility because of your own insecurities does not mean my behavior must adapt to your expectation of how someone should be.

yeah you 're better, you're even better than that, in fact you're awesome. congratulations, you deserve the gold medal. the history books should mention you. God is preparing your golden seat next to him and the angels are singing happily for your awesome awesomeness. you are so great, that even your shit smells like French cologne. all the chicks want your baby and all men wanna be like you. you have caught life by the balls, that bitch thought it would trick you, but you got back at her. even priests are afraid of you, because you know so much more than them.. i mean you read David Icke, you're completely informed hands down. president Bush would feel so happy to meet you, he would bow down and kiss your feet. hallelujah zen fox, hallelu jah.

http://msp117.photobucket.com/albums/o49/SKULL_ANDRE/ANIMATIE-IMAGE/EMOTICONES/smiley_emoticons_joint.gif

[emanuel]

We all are born into same slavery. Why are we here at least trying to make sense of it all? Some just love their cage too much.



Yeah, you be a true hero. Stand with them in the front lines. They have all the moral back bone installed in them by the society that abuses them, whereas we're all bitter and judgemental here.



Oh sorry. Since I'm not as good a "truther" as David Icke I should shut up and admit I'm the same crap as those who enjoy being used. I've been "awakened" only a few months.

I always had doubts about everything, but I guess a little while ago my ego grew enough to break the barriers around me.

About being totally clueless. Like I said earlier. Stock market. Advertisements. All the materialist hype.

Those things are something that even common sense says to be plain wrong. But most people accept them just because they are there.

I don't know exactly who or why they exist. Maybe there's no Illuminati, maybe they just came about by chance. But the fact is they are harmful. Most people don't even want to consider why we have them.

I may not have all the answers. I may have very few answers, maybe none. But I can say I can think for myself. Not completely freely, but I don't have to be bound by the logic prison enforced by society.

It's not easy to see your friends being imprisoned by their own minds. And there's nothing I can do. If I try to talk to them they usually ignore me. Or if they are willing to discuss they use all their energy and logic to prove that the status quo is right.

So thanks for being judgemental. And so fucking polite. Fuck you.

No you're just stuck in a logic prison with a different tag hanging off of it.

And how can you be so sure that your mind is not imprisoned. The truth movement talks about negative energy and how it lowers vibration, fear is the enemy and so on and so on, yet that is the one fucking thing the 'truth movement' is pushing, uncovering more and more things to be affraid of while there are those who are blissfully unaware of all this bollocks and happy living their interpretation of 'happiness'. Is it any wonder 'sheeple' (hate that f'ing word) deflect our negativity, underlining the point that there life is a lie and the government is trying to kill them is NOT gonna be inspiring and people will defend themselves against that kind of fear mongering.

So their vibration should be higher right? Oh no, because they consume aspartame, fluride, suger, caffiene and whatever the fuck else is 'poisonous' right? They use mobile phones and live beneath power lines right? So do you eat and drink 100% pure and natural food? do you slaughter a cow when you want a burger? Do you live in a hole in the middle of a field? No, you complete cretin. Your fuckin right I'm judgemental, at least I'm honest about it instead of cocking about like a wannabe-Ghandi!

Understand this, 'awakening' did not happen by accident, we were led here as part of the bullshit system of control we want to break free from. But you wont accept this, just like everyone else here, because like the 'sheeple' you instictively defend your position with a closed mind.

Oh and fuck you too!!!!!!!

[lessgov2007]

The sheeple are already as awake as they come. They're stupid, not asleep. The neo-conservatives believe this because it's true. They need religion and fake elections to appease them. The elite don't care about being exposed because the conditioned minds of the sheeple hears the words "conspiracy theory" and they dredge up a lifetime of responses, emotions, and conditions. You can't wake them up. There's nothing to wake them up to. They are zombies, not sheeple. They are the walking dead, easily lead and controlled, easily appeased. It's true they have been purposefully dumbed down by media and so-called education, but they are beyond redemption. They don't want to be intelligent. They don't want to be woken up. They don't want to expand their consciousness. They want to be told what to do. They want to be coddled by their government, lied to by their media, and manipulated by their religions. They don't posses important decision making faculties. They cannot perform critical thinking tasks. They are reactionary, not rational. They are emotive, not logical. Without the desired motivation to learn these skills, no amount of exposure or debunking will ever be able to give it to them. They must seek it on their own. They must teach themselves.

When you say stupid, are you implying they cannot learn? Yes, they must seek the truth. However, they must first be convinced they don't have it.

[zen_fox]

When you say stupid, are you implying they cannot learn? Yes, they must seek the truth. However, they must first be convinced they don't have it.

I don't know whether it is through conditioning or a natural disinterest, but I do believe the majority of people could very easily educate themselves and improve upon their knowledge and thinking. The decision though can't be forced for them. Nearly everyone can have access to the internet and library which are great tools for educating one self.

I don't mean to imply that people are unable to learn. I am saying that people choose to be willfully stupid for their lives. Maybe some of them had a few failures in school and mistakenly believed that this was actual education. To those I'd love to shove a few books in their hands and point out that school has little to do with education. I suspect that the majority though want to be stupid, choose not to change, and don't care otherwise.

[haukipesukone]

No you're just stuck in a logic prison with a different tag hanging off of it.

And how can you be so sure that your mind is not imprisoned. The truth movement talks about negative energy and how it lowers vibration, fear is the enemy and so on and so on, yet that is the one fucking thing the 'truth movement' is pushing, uncovering more and more things to be affraid of while there are those who are blissfully unaware of all this bollocks and happy living their interpretation of 'happiness'. Is it any wonder 'sheeple' (hate that f'ing word) deflect our negativity, underlining the point that there life is a lie and the government is trying to kill them is NOT gonna be inspiring and people will defend themselves against that kind of fear mongering.


It doesn't make me afraid reading what new shit they've come up with to imprison us more. It makes me angry if anything. I can say I'm not afraid of anything. As I sit here, there is no fear in me. It doesn't mean I'm immune to fear. I can feel a bit vary walking alone at night thinking maybe there are muggers about. But I am not afraid.

I don't know about energies and frequencies. If something sends negative energies I don't think you should hide from it. Face your fears, face your shadow (Jungian shadow).

I don't know if it really matters how we vibrate. It's a nice idea changing the world by vibration alone, but sounds a bit too new age mumbo jumbo to put too much faith in it. But I don't think we start vibrating higher if we pretend we're happy, when we are not.

It's the "sheeple's" own fault for running from the truth. The few times I've talked about conspiracies with "sheeple" I didn't say the government is going to kill them. I didn't say anything definite. I didn't say I'm right and you're wrong, I tried to make them question things. I didn't go evangelising our conspiracy gospel.


I don't know whether it is through conditioning or a natural disinterest, but I do believe the majority of people could very easily educate themselves and improve upon their knowledge and thinking. The decision though can't be forced for them. Nearly everyone can have access to the internet and library which are great tools for educating one self.

We have access to all this information so easily. Something people didn't have 100 years ago, not even 50 years ago. Information about foreign lands, philosophies and histories. Rather than broadening one's mind most people watch American Slut Idol or play World of Grindcraft.

[honeyrose]

I don't know whether it is through conditioning or a natural disinterest, but I do believe the majority of people could very easily educate themselves and improve upon their knowledge and thinking. The decision though can't be forced for them. Nearly everyone can have access to the internet and library which are great tools for educating one self.


I totally agree with Emanuel, Krakhead, Pariclezen and Bigus dickus!

Zen Fox - You forget that some people are born less fortunate than others through absolutely no fault of their own. This doesn't mean they are 'sheeple' (Ugh!) and that you are superior or indeed more intelligent. If you consider yourself superior, inferior or unequal to another human it just means that you have a sickness of the mind and that has nothing to do with being awake or intelligent at all.

[haukipesukone]

I totally agree with Emanuel, Krakhead, Pariclezen and Bigus dickus!

Zen Fox - You forget that some people are born less fortunate than others through absolutely no fault of their own. This doesn't mean they are 'sheeple' (Ugh!) and that you are superior or indeed more intelligent. If you consider yourself superior, inferior or unequal to another human it just means that you have a sickness of the mind and that has nothing to do with being awake or intelligent at all.

Please define "less fortunate". How are we more fortunate than others born in the same country? I'm from a pretty normal family. True my parents didn't try to indoctrinate me with religion or anything as a child. The society still did.

It's true you could call us more fortunate to have been born where we were born instead of Darfur or Iraq. But I don't think anyone was referring to them.

And it is fact that people are not equal. Some are smarter than others, others are stronger, some are prettier, and some people are smart, strong and pretty. It may be due to random chance or something else, but people are different in many ways.

I can't say which category Zen Fox (or myself) belongs to, but people are not equal.

[emanuel]

It doesn't make me afraid reading what new shit they've come up with to imprison us more. It makes me angry if anything. I can say I'm not afraid of anything. As I sit here, there is no fear in me. It doesn't mean I'm immune to fear. I can feel a bit vary walking alone at night thinking maybe there are muggers about. But I am not afraid.

I don't know about energies and frequencies. If something sends negative energies I don't think you should hide from it. Face your fears, face your shadow (Jungian shadow).

I don't know if it really matters how we vibrate. It's a nice idea changing the world by vibration alone, but sounds a bit too new age mumbo jumbo to put too much faith in it. But I don't think we start vibrating higher if we pretend we're happy, when we are not.

It's the "sheeple's" own fault for running from the truth. The few times I've talked about conspiracies with "sheeple" I didn't say the government is going to kill them. I didn't say anything definite. I didn't say I'm right and you're wrong, I tried to make them question things. I didn't go evangelising our conspiracy gospel.



We have access to all this information so easily. Something people didn't have 100 years ago, not even 50 years ago. Information about foreign lands, philosophies and histories. Rather than broadening one's mind most people watch American Slut Idol or play World of Grindcraft.

Okay so you don't fear! But it still makes you angry. Still arouses negativity.

I'm not talking about sitting in circles and singing kumbaya, I'm talking about being happy without interuption. Every wonder why you don't ever want the 'good times' to end?!

I didn't mean for you to take the remark about governments killing us literally, though that is it in a nutshell.

[emanuel]

Please define "less fortunate". How are we more fortunate than others born in the same country? I'm from a pretty normal family. True my parents didn't try to indoctrinate me with religion or anything as a child. The society still did.

It's true you could call us more fortunate to have been born where we were born instead of Darfur or Iraq. But I don't think anyone was referring to them.

And it is fact that people are not equal. Some are smarter than others, others are stronger, some are prettier, and some people are smart, strong and pretty. It may be due to random chance or something else, but people are different in many ways.

I can't say which category Zen Fox (or myself) belongs to, but people are not equal.

People are not equal eh?

Well, in terms of their physical strength, it varies. In terms of learning curves, it varies depending on the subject matter. What you are quick to learn, I may be slow, but EQUALLY there are things that I will learn quicker and in more depth. It all depends on what interests the individual, and since we are all unique in our experiences, that means we are unique in our comination of interest, so you can (and I will) still argue that in terms of how "smart" we are, we ARE still equal.

But, bottom line, we are all equal in value!

[balancekeeper]

Anyone interested??[/B][/QUOTE]

the answer is a bit late:P But definately interested! me and friends had the same idea..