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timezone
16-10-2008, 12:54 AM
Downing Street's desperate efforts to shore up the economy in the face of the escalating credit crash may not be enough to rescue the transport, building and car industries, as a tidal wave of job losses are predicted in the coming month.

More than a million Britons will be out of work and on the dole by next month as the toxic fallout from Black October filters down to ordinary families, economists are warning.

A bleak Christmas lies ahead for many as the City turmoil spreads into the so-called real economy. Companies are now being squeezed on two vital fronts, with shoppers abandoning the high street and bank lending drying up, making it almost impossible for smaller businesses to get credit to stay afloat.

Geoff Hoon, the new Transport Secretary, yesterday warned that there were 'potentially serious consequences for small business, for employment' from the current crisis, reflecting private warnings to the Prime Minister's new economic 'war cabinet' that job losses and business collapses later this year are now virtually inevitable.

Official unemployment figures for September, due on Wednesday, are expected to show another increase in job losses - although this will not yet be the sharp upward spike which is expected as the full consequences of last week's stock-market crash filter through. Some forecasts suggest that unemployment will hit two million by Christmas.

Some government officials warned that those slipping into unemployment could find themselves much more isolated than in the last recession. They pointed out that unemployment benefits had slipped relative to earnings and there were now fewer council houses available.

Senior Tories this weekend called for a freeze on new employment rights, in a shift away from David Cameron's previous enthusiasm for measures like extra parental leave, arguing that the priority was to save jobs by reducing business red tape. Alan Duncan, the shadow business secretary, will host an emergency summit this week on ways of preventing small businesses from going bust.

Chris Grayling, the shadow work and pensions secretary, told The Observer it would become 'more difficult' to make the case for flexible working in the darkening economic climate and called for deregulation to take the pressure off employers: 'The one thing government must recognise is that it can't keep piling regulation on small business when that could (determine) the decision whether to keep somebody in a job or not.'

Ministers are now under similar pressure to defend jobs, with some Labour MPs reporting a backlash from constituents furious that billions have been spent rescuing bankers while factory workers' jobs go to the wall.

The British Retail Consortium will release figures this week showing another fall in sales on the high street last month, with director general Stephen Robertson warning that sales for non-food retailers such as electrical stores had 'fallen off a cliff'. Some retailers are reducing opening hours to save costs.

Shoppers are also cutting back on 'big ticket' purchases like cars, with the number of new registrations in September down by a fifth on August, according to the SMMT, the motor vehicle manufacturing body. Car plants have already axed thousands of temporary staff and put others on four-day weeks or halted overtime. 'If there is no pick-up in demand for cars, there are bound to be more job losses next year,' said Roger Madison, national automotive officer for the Unite union.

Others at risk include the aviation industry - Willie Walsh, the British Airways chief executive, is predicting that up to 30 airlines worldwide will go bust - while further losses are likely in the City. Unemployed bankers are being advised to seek work in Shanghai or Mumbai amid warnings that the Square Mile will be permanently reshaped by the crisis.

'City people I speak to are despairing because they may not get another job for a year,' said Shaun Springer, chief executive of the City headhunting firm Napier Scott. 'For the first time in 30 years in the City, I'm scared.'

With charitable donations falling, even the voluntary sector is also cutting jobs. Oxfam needs to shave its budget by up to 15 per cent because of falling income, while the National Council of Voluntary Organisations expects some smaller charities to go under.

Alan Clarke, economist from the bank BNP Paribas, said the number of those claiming unemployment benefit was due to break the one million mark by the end of next month at the latest, with up to two million looking for work by December: he is forecasting unemployment to hit 7 per cent by the middle of next year and carry on rising until 2010.

Philip Shaw, economist at Investec, said it was difficult to be optimistic: 'The sentiment is one of widespread doom and gloom. Businesses are now being affected by the credit squeeze. The economy has shuddered to a halt.'

At the height of the 1980s recession, three million were unemployed. The question now is how far the pain will spread. As one boss told a senior CBI official: 'We know there is a tsunami coming, but we do not know if it's going to knock us over or just wet our feet.'

The speed with which the bubble burst is one of the most striking factors of this crisis, and could help determine what happens next. Consumer confidence is now lower on some indices than in the 1980s slump or even the mid-1970s, according to the pollster Peter Kellner, suggesting that Britons unused to tough times are quicker to panic than in previous slumps - leading to a more sudden fall in sales, and consequently a more severe immediate threat to jobs.

'It may be that paradoxically because it's been so good for the last 16 years people are not used to the idea (of bad times) whereas in previous times the boom and bust rolled around so regularly that it was less of a shock to the system,' he argues.

No wonder Labour MPs' celebrations after last week's banking bailout package were shortlived. 'The big picture is obviously deeply worrying,' said one Cabinet aide. 'But at least Gordon is playing a blinder: he looks so comfortable in his own skin for the first time in a long time.'

The Prime Minister has indeed been revitalised by the crisis, his confidence visibly soaring: he trounced David Cameron at the dispatch box last week over City bonuses, and is now seeing his stance vindicated as other world leaders rush to copy his banking bailout. Finally, he is in his political element, leading international debate. Nonetheless, Labour's long-term prospects, with an election in 2010, are unclear. Brown could survive the crash, as John Major did with re-election in 1992, or be forced from office. Brown's argument today that his banking plan will reduce the pain felt by Britain will be critical. 'If there is a slight blip but nothing too serious, and Gordon is seen to have played a major role in pulling Britain through, then I'm not saying Labour will definitely win, but it's game on,' says Kellner. 'Alternatively, if it is a disaster we could have a Conservative landslide.'

There are fears across all three parties that the British National Party may profit from rising unemployment. Grayling argues that healthy employment levels among foreign nationals have masked the loss of 250,000 jobs in the last years among British men: around half of new jobs created under Labour have gone to overseas workers. Widespread job losses among unskilled, working-class Britons could provide dangerous ammunition for extremist parties and fuel the rise of anti-immigrant sentiment.

Unions are warning that the government must use its stake in the banks to free up lending, keeping businesses afloat and protecting jobs. Hugo Sellert, head of economic research at the online recruitment firm Monster, which has seen the number of employers recruiting fall dramatically, says the biggest fear is of business lending drying up. 'We have yet to see the full impact of the financial crisis and the recent dramatic events spill over into the jobs market,' he said. 'The worst is still to come.'

Which would mean tough decisions not just for employers but for government. The Treasury's forecasts of a 4.8 per cent growth in tax receipts - including money raked in from corporate tax and VAT on consumer goods - now looks wildly optimistic, yet revising them would threaten its spending plans for public services. So what happens when the sums no longer add up?

If you are reading this on a Northern Line London Tube train, you may owe your journey to the last great recession. The extension of the Tube north to High Barnet and east into Essex in the 1930s was part of a massive programme of government spending designed to save jobs in construction and stimulate the economy after the Great Depression.

Rather than balancing its books by slashing spending or hiking taxes, could Labour try to spend its way through the recession by unleashing another era of job-creating public works?

Rail and bus operators are usually among the first casualties of rising unemployment, as redundant commuters tear up their season tickets. But Stephen Joseph, of the Campaign for Better Transport, argued the pain could be eased now by pushing ahead with expensive projects such as Crossrail.

'Because of commitments in the transport sector some of the downturn won't be as bad, because there is a level of spending through the recession,' he said. The last few days have, he argues, seen an outbreak of cross-party Keynesianism with even the Tory Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, warning against halting investment. Similarly, ministers are being lobbied to snap up land at bargain prices as the property market crashes and use it to build social housing, keeping construction workers in jobs.

The prospect of a spending spree funded by borrowing worries the Tories, who fear winning the next election only to pick up the bill for what the shadow cabinet minister Michael Gove calls a 'party on David Cameron's credit card'.

This weekend, the shadow chancellor George Osborne published an analysis suggesting that, if government borrowing rises by £40 billion to plug the gap caused by a shrinking economy, government debt will rise to £80 billion by next year. By 2009-10, the government could be spending more on servicing debt than on grants to schools.

Whitehall is tightening its belt ahead of a pre-budget report this autumn expected, as one Cabinet minister admits, to be 'very tough'. The Treasury has not yet even set a date for its publication, as Alistair Darling rips up plans left outdated by the global crisis. Downing Street has identified health, education and transport as priorities to be ringfenced but the outlook for other departments in the next three-year spending round - due to be settled next summer - appears grim.

Discussions have already begun over the Queen's Speech, ditching planned legislation that does not address bread-and-butter issues. Ironically, one of the flagship bills was intended to be James Purnell's welfare reforms, bringing in private sector firms to find work for the jobless, details of which will be published in December.

By then, if the gloomier forecasts are right, two million Britons could be needing the newly privatised Jobcentre services - but if Brown is vindicated, the economy could have stepped back from the brink.

For millions whose homes and livelihoods depend on his economic stewardship, he was right yesterday to say the stakes could not be higher.

· This article was amended on Tuesday October 14 2008. The headline of this article 'Two million Britons on the dole by Christmas' did not accurately reflect the figures used in the story. This has been corrected. :eek: :cool:

tracker
16-10-2008, 12:55 AM
im not directing this at all of them . but maybe some of them might then stop slagging of unemployed people .

bicycle
16-10-2008, 12:59 AM
Downing Street's desperate efforts to shore up the economy in the face of the escalating credit crash may not be enough to rescue the transport, building and car industries

Bloody great news imo:)

raptorialis
16-10-2008, 01:01 AM
Now that your tax has gone to bail out the debt companies, they are making you unemployed and sending their debt collectors to take your homes away.

Support this growing campaign by asking that David Icke use his influence to stand up in the name of the ordinary people!

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39157

http://www.airynothing.com/blogs/photos/monster_at_the_door-thumb.jpg

tracker
16-10-2008, 01:04 AM
the true figures will be closer to 3 mil +


yes indeed it will .

hhhm ?

maybe there will be enough to then say

enough is enough !

it had to happen sometime

pheony
16-10-2008, 01:04 AM
Tough times are ahead for many...Things could turn really nasty.

bicycle
16-10-2008, 01:08 AM
Tough times are ahead for many...Things could turn really nasty.

Only for those dependent on the system.

raptorialis
16-10-2008, 01:15 AM
This is true bicycle.

But there are plenty of people out there who are programmed to be dependent. For many that is all they have ever known in their life and they have been excellent employees because of it.

For these people i fear very much.


Only for those dependent on the system.

pheony
16-10-2008, 01:28 AM
This is true bicycle.

But there are plenty of people out there who are programmed to be dependent. For many that is all they have ever known in their life and they have been excellent employees because of it.

For these people i fear very much.

I agree. I have had a life of ups and downs so know that i will cope whatever, but many people have only known the upside and have felt very secure even with their debts and thats about to change, many wont know whats hit them.

sannox
16-10-2008, 01:28 AM
theres 1.79 million on the dole allready .

rhydra
16-10-2008, 01:31 AM
Going to reach three million by the end of next year, even with manipulated figures. The current figure is time delayed only reflecting people losing their jobs before September, -I think- three months has to pass before you are counted as unemployed.

killmicrosoft
16-10-2008, 01:55 AM
the true figures will be closer to 3 -5 mil +

by the end of 2009 will be about 15 mil


and the stage is set they got the reaction they wanted when they were on about getting people back in to work

so when their is to many the only work will be national service mark my words

we will have no choice or
no food
no home
no nothing

and if you dont do it you will then become a criminal



these 3 links look quite inercent until you work out what they are on about @@@@@@@@@@@@@@
http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/NationalServiceFrameworks/index.htm
http://www.wales.nhs.uk/sites3/home.cfm?OrgID=334
http://www.wales.nhs.uk/sites3/home.cfm?OrgID=441


http://www.britisharmedforces.org/ns/nat_history.htm
http://noms.justice.gov.uk/news-publications-events/publications/strategy/NSF-Women-08?view=Binary
http://www.surestart.gov.uk/_doc/P0001401.pdf
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2007/jun/10/communities.britishidentity
http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=1321933
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1034779/Brown-defends-knife-crime-clampdown-police-chief-proposes-national-service-jobless.html
http://uk.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUKL0676145020070906
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cameron-gathers-support-over-national-service-for-teenagers-517406.html
http://www.bloggerheads.com/archives/2005/06/bring_back_nati.asp
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1562453/Teenage-national-service-planned-by-Cameron.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4583234.stm
http://www.smartvoter.org/2000/03/07/ca/state/vote/delue_c/paper3.html
http://www.coursework.info/AS_and_A_Level/Physics/Mechanics___Radioactivity/Compulsory_National_Service_in_S_A_L111414.html
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=280508
http://www.thirdsector.co.uk/News/DailyBulletin/735393/National-youth-service-scheme-compulsory-says-CSV/2C55980B2FC2CC450D2ECDD6CEB118F7/
http://direct.bl.uk/bld/PlaceOrder.do?UIN=125016145&ETOC=RN&from=searchengine
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-480240/Cameron-offers-gap-year-cash-bonus-16-year-olds-complete-national-service.html
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/52563/Yes-National-service-does-work
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1948/apr/23/clause-1-treatment-of-compulsory
http://www.shropshirestar.com/2008/07/18/national-service-is-a-good-solution/
http://www.communitycare.co.uk/Articles/2007/09/07/105709/bring-back-national-service.html
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1976/cukpga_19760035_en_1
http://www.navy-net.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=3966.html
http://thecrossedpond.com/?p=3816
http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/p=2082769.html

timezone
16-10-2008, 02:01 AM
makes sence. Work for benefits' plan unveiled

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7516551.stm

lightgiver
16-10-2008, 04:08 AM
theres 1.79 million on the dole allready .

and all the folk on the sick as well,they always lie with figures though,we should know that by now:rolleyes:

they can shove there shitty jobs,i prefer to work on the side,and i claim no benefits of this system,i would rather beg.

devolinctus
16-10-2008, 04:16 AM
and all the folk on the sick as well,they always lie with figures though,we should know that by now:rolleyes:

they can shove there shitty jobs,i prefer to work on the side,and i claim no benefits of this system,i would rather beg.
you would rather beg?, light, your parents never worked their asses off to give you this????

lightgiver
16-10-2008, 05:01 AM
you would rather beg?, light, your parents never worked their asses off to give you this????

to give me what:confused:i have worked my arse off for 25yrs also.I am just saying i want nothing off a corrupt government,and the begging statement is just a little tongue in cheek;):)and my parents have worked hard,i just hope they are gonna be alright?by the way i do not live in the uk any more.

The stinking government needs to bail out the people not the bankers.

upsetbrit
16-10-2008, 05:28 AM
My neighbours both got given their notice yesterday. They're really concerned about the future. I know what it feels like to be laid off, so i sympathise with them.

They're really nice people too. They helped me when my PC blew up, they entertain my kids, they throw us sugar and coffee if we run out and they always give us a lift to town if ever we need anything, and they even painted our fence for us.
Couldn't have happened to nicer people IMO. They even make zero noise, which is a rarity as far as neighbours are concerned in my experience.

I wonder if their company being Icelandic has anything to do with it, with our fascist government freezing Icelandic assets...

What a miserable christmas many people are going to be having this year. :(

anyuser
16-10-2008, 05:42 AM
Now that your tax has gone to bail out the debt companies, they are making you unemployed and sending their debt collectors to take your homes away.

Yes, I wonder also what are they going to do with all those defaults on student loans. I hear the default rate on student loans are way up due to people not being able to find a decent job.

unusual_suspect
16-10-2008, 10:03 AM
I know alot of people who have been made redundant recently and the jobs that are around are paying 13K and there abouts. 13K might be ok if you live with your parents and have to bung them £50 a week. No good if you live on your own or have kids :(

It looks like things may get pretty grim, the only way I can see to overcome this if the worst comes to the worst is to take the crappy paid jobs and start sharing your house with people and getting self sufficient.

Maybe people need a wake up call, though for many people I work with, life is all about Eastenders, getting your hair and nails done and hair straighteners :confused:

unusual_suspect
16-10-2008, 10:27 AM
Just thought, I totally agree that they will start making people work for benefits, I'm shocked they don't already.

What would happen in the case of families on low incomes who recieve tax credits etc? You can't make someone work when they already have a job.

For example I am a single mum, work full time (day off today :)) the company I work for pays a crap wage, as I live near London and have to rent privately cause there's no chance of getting a council house, most of my wage goes on my rent. If I didn't get tax credits I would not be able to afford child care etc.

Many families are in this situation, if they were forced to work for benefits, who would look after their kids :confused:

killmicrosoft
16-10-2008, 11:53 AM
the state wants our kids

unusual_suspect
16-10-2008, 11:59 AM
the state wants our kids

Sadly I think you are right, why else would they give single mothers the money to infact spend most of the day away from their kids, what's the alternative, living on benefits, and that is a pretty meagre existance :(

devolinctus
06-11-2008, 12:09 AM
Sadly I think you are right, why else would they give single mothers the money to infact spend most of the day away from their kids, what's the alternative, living on benefits, and that is a pretty meagre existance :(

seems not alot of charity for the poor, its really tough, i know it well, and nothing makes it worse than a middle class fuck who tell you how to live, they havnt even seen it, they are a definition of the corrupt, can i tell how to live your life?, no, i didnt think so, 5 A day?, i'm lucky if i get 5 a week, and i work, [with morons], so God help them poor souls, but as always, someone hundreds of miles away tells us what to do,
gEEbEE

the_red_jester
06-11-2008, 04:36 AM
the situation will only get worse. I was made redundant recently and because I had not worked for the company for more than 2 years I got no severance pay. The worst thing is that with a recession the building trade is the first to dry up and given that I am a structural engineer I am now finding it impossible to even get interviews. Even the international engineering consultancies have been laying off staff in London.
the job seekers allowance system just feeds peoples despair. One of the clauses states that if offered a job one needs a resonable reason for not accepting it otherwise the benefits are terminated. I guess this would mean that if I was offered a job in say retail (and no offence is intended to anyone working in that sector including my partner!) and I turned it down because it has nothing to do with my area of expertise that they are within their rights to strike me off the benefits list!

haukipesukone
06-11-2008, 07:02 AM
What unemployed people have to realize is that there is no shame in being unemployed. It's hard enough being unemployed without having guilt and feeling of inadequacy added to it. If they can let go of the feelings planted onto them, since they have free time, they can start overthrowing the society that rejects them.

jack5
06-11-2008, 07:44 AM
Been a rump of two or two and a half million people unemployed in the uk over the past 20 years.What you realy mean is an extra one million to join them over the next month.Not all unemployed people appear on official figuers.

helpus
06-11-2008, 07:52 AM
if you don't want alot, don't work so much. everyones obsessed with work.
it will be illegal to be unemployed at this rate.

raptorialis
06-11-2008, 11:13 AM
This is beautiful.

What unemployed people have to realize is that there is no shame in being unemployed. It's hard enough being unemployed without having guilt and feeling of inadequacy added to it. If they can let go of the feelings planted onto them, since they have free time, they can start overthrowing the society that rejects them.

jack5
06-11-2008, 11:21 AM
What unemployed people have to realize is that there is no shame in being unemployed. It's hard enough being unemployed without having guilt and feeling of inadequacy added to it. If they can let go of the feelings planted onto them, since they have free time, they can start overthrowing the society that rejects them.Good point.However i think the chickens are comming home to roost becouse of the mickey mouse ecomomy and jobs that have been available to ordinairy people.Over time and easy credit do not make up for well paid jobs and productive industries.

wideawake
06-11-2008, 12:41 PM
Well the shit is really hitting the fan now. just lost all overtime £200 a week, loads been laid off. I have 3 kids and debt. Lucky me:)

endlessvista
06-11-2008, 12:50 PM
That's one millions Britons who represent a huge oppertunity to educate and enlighten with the truth.

jesta_g
06-11-2008, 01:54 PM
Sadly Im one of the millions thats on the dole and I really need to get a job, I was made reundant from my old work due to lack of staff hours as the economy crunch/ inflation was kicking in.

I really do need a job, not to or because I depend on the system but because i have a new born child and a girlfriend who I must and want to support.

I have lived off my girlfriend now for 3-4 months (and this is the first time ever) and it feels awful, Its even affecting our relationship as she has asked me to move back into my mothers because I cant support myself and live in the house we are in.
It brought me to tears when she asked me to leave only in the last week ( we are perfect together and i would never have expected it to come to this) so i have been job hunting like a bi-atch and so far there has been no luck.

The last thing I want is to lose my child and amazing Girlfriend, who I truly love, due to my ass not having a job.
And its hard to know that there are lesser and lesser jobs everyday.

Im not to sure if there was an altogether point to my post here but if there is one person thats feeling affected by this shite its me and my relationship.
I only hope I find a job soon.

The dole ( £47 a week) is simply not enough for one to survive with a newborn and a girlfriend.
I wish I had a better understanding of handling money and budgeting coz im only young at 23 yrs old and would hate to lose or struggle further with such a future.
I know how simple it is to live to a bare minimum and I have sold and given up ALL of my material possesions in fact this computer is basically all i own now along with my clothing.
As for living in Edinburgh anyone who is from here can back me up when I say it is extortionate for prices from living (we having to pay £800 a month for a 2 bedroom place, and thats one of the cheapest places going) to just getting a simple shopping or going out.

anyway I have seem to have unloaded some of my personal issues in this post so ill apologise for rambling and shifting a weight of my recent problems.

in the end I just want to say that is not as simple as just living off benefits/ the dole and not working for the "system".
Some people have entire families to support and probably girlfreinds/partners who are far less generous then mine and Id hate to think what somepeople are having to go through just now coz I know im not one of the worser offs
( I thank the gods for having such a supportive and loving mother also).

until the NWO is brought down and we all "shift" in consciousness and light I am going to have to keep working for the "man" to feed/cloth and live with my new family. This is such a frustrating/entrapping thought as Im sure many would agree....

WE WANT THE END OF THIS NWO SHITE NOW!!
AND WE WANT THE SHIFT NOW !!

thank you for hearing me out.

nofuture
06-11-2008, 04:21 PM
Who likes living off other peoples' sweat, especially the kind of people you would not want to give one chance of humbling you.

Not me.

mightiswrong
06-11-2008, 06:23 PM
Hey jesta_g might I suggest taking a bucket and some washing liquid and knocking around the houses asking if people want their windows cleaned, car washed, hedge trimmed etc. I used to do this and found it easy to make £20 or so in an afternoon. Also if you put flyers out for gardening work it can be good. I made £800 in 2 weeks doing a decking for someone cash in hand. Might be worth a try untill something else turns up. Also make sure you take a few minutes each day to feel the way you would feel if your problem was resolved to your satisfaction. Works miracles. ;)

curly
06-11-2008, 08:15 PM
180 were made redundant in my town today,100 at a mobile home manufacturers and 80 at a launderette the 80 at the launderette went because hotel rooms are not being used apparantly,i think the mobile home guys will be booming in a couple of years tho if we let the banks take peoples homes