Are the masons being phased out?

[baron von lotsov]

Think about this for a moment. You could argue that they are the elite and so there is no chance of it, but look carefully. It seems a lot of masons are old these days and the young people are not really getting involved with them so much. Remember most people think they are a kind of gentleman's club and the government have even tried to get rid of theses as well, in their pursuit of equal opportunities. So what will be the new masons? My guess is that it will reform into a completely different way. I'm starting to notice people picking up lucrative deals down in places like New Age workshops. Someone mentioned something like this to me recently that someone had acquired some abnormally good money making opportunity from a contact in some New Age sweatlodge. Do you think this is how things might end up?

[qasrose]

Well from what I've heard Lodges are being closed down, as more and more members seem to be dropping out

[clozaril]

do you mean the masons are spreading into the new age movement ?

there will still be initations and degrees though won't they carried out somewhere, a power/pyramid structure will still be in place.

but perhaps the great work is now in fruition so there is no more need for masons ?

[baron von lotsov]

do you mean the masons are spreading into the new age movement ?

there will still be initations and degrees though won't they carried out somewhere, a power/pyramid structure will still be in place.

but perhaps the great work is now in fruition so there is no more need for masons ?


No, I think the masons will carry on with what they do but they will just die out as the new system people will be initiated into New Age and pagan cults like Wicca witchcraft and that sort of thing. They will do it openly, have shops on the high street, just like the old lodges were there to be seen, but the difference is the new recruits will think they are anti-system and this will be what makes it appealing. They want that rebel kind of mindset now because it is Luciferian, and they will select out of these people certain people that will go on to do formal initiation stuff, and they will become elite. I have a bit of evidence this is starting to happen. Some seem to be making far more money than you would expect in this area, which by and large is a poor area because it is in the country. Some live in very large and expensive houses.

[barney_rubble]

I have a bit of evidence this is starting to happen. Some seem to be making far more money than you would expect in this area, which by and large is a poor area because it is in the country. Some live in very large and expensive houses.

So if people make money the must be into something "elite" or "NWO".
I see.

Man I got to drop my lodge and find me a Wicca.

[baron von lotsov]

So if people make money the must be into something "elite" or "NWO".
I see.

Man I got to drop my lodge and find me a Wicca.

If someone becomes a millionaire by running a vege stall at festivals then you'd think they were either exceptionally clever or they had a little help from their friends.

[agneau]

If someone becomes a millionaire by running a vege stall at festivals then you'd think they were either exceptionally clever or they had a little help from their friends.

Well, what do their accounts say about their income source (if they're that rich then they must have published accounts)? Maybe there's a legitimate and completely unsinister alterative income source, that you don't know about? Inheritance? You know everything about these people? Rather suspect not, given your attitude to them.

Sure it's not just a little green god on the shoulder prompting this?

[clozaril]

tbh i know not a lot about masons and i rarely come into this sub forum

from what i understand the freemasons are holders of ancient knowledge held by a select few, now this knowledge must come to the masses. .................................naive i know

[barney_rubble]

If someone becomes a millionaire by running a vege stall at festivals then you'd think they were either exceptionally clever or they had a little help from their friends.

A few years back someone may have said that about a coffee/donut shop owner or about a guy tinkering with old computer parts in his garage.

But look at Tim Horton (link (http://www.timhortons.com/en/about/index.html)) and Bill Gates.


Opps! Tim Horton was an unconfirmed Freemason (link (http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/horton_t/horton_t.html)). Sorry bad example.

[baron von lotsov]

A few years back someone may have said that about a coffee/donut shop owner or about a guy tinkering with old computer parts in his garage.

But look at Tim Horton (link (http://www.timhortons.com/en/about/index.html)) and Bill Gates.


Opps! Tim Horton was an unconfirmed Freemason (link (http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/horton_t/horton_t.html)). Sorry bad example.

What are you trying to say?

[baron von lotsov]

Well, what do their accounts say about their income source (if they're that rich then they must have published accounts)? Maybe there's a legitimate and completely unsinister alterative income source, that you don't know about? Inheritance? You know everything about these people? Rather suspect not, given your attitude to them.

Sure it's not just a little green god on the shoulder prompting this?

No but I keep my eyes open and watch what goes on. One person owns three witch shops in a town with a population of 10 000. A lot of small shops here can't even survive selling normal things. The latest to close down was an excellent hardware shop, established for decades. My theory is more money goes into these cult shops than what comes out, i.e. someone is funding them.

[barney_rubble]

A few years back someone may have said that about a coffee/donut shop owner or about a guy tinkering with old computer parts in his garage.

But look at Tim Horton (link (http://www.timhortons.com/en/about/index.html)) and Bill Gates.


Opps! Tim Horton was an unconfirmed Freemason (link (http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/horton_t/horton_t.html)). Sorry bad example.

The plot thickens: Tim Horton's name appears on the Stanley Cup(Stanley Cup - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) three times.
Lord Stanley (link (http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/stanley_f/stanley_f.html))after whom the cup was named was also a Freemason.

In February 1974, Tim Horton died in a "tragic" car accident.
What were the reasons for Tim Horton's mysterious death?

Possibly because the secret formula to his coffee revealed too many masonic secrets
3 degress in a regular craft lodge - 3 ingredients in a regular coffee (coffee, cream, sugar) - most likely goat's cream too.
Two regular coffees = 3 + 3 = 33. OMG!
Possibly because Lord Stanley's hiers were not getting enough of the coffee kick-backs.


The truth may never be known but the evidence is there for those who wish to look. OPEN YOUR EYES.

[baron von lotsov]

The plot thickens: Tim Horton's name appears on the Stanley Cup three times.
Lord Stanley after whom the cup was named was also a Freemason.

In February 1974, Tim Horton died in a "tragic" car accident.
What were the reasons for Tim Horton's mysterious death?

Possibly because the secret formula to his coffee revealed too many masonic secrets
3 degress in a regular craft lodge - 3 ingredients in a regular coffee (coffee, cream, sugar) - most likely goat's cream too.
Possibly because Lord Stanley's hiers were not getting enough of the coffee kick-backs.


The truth may never be known but the evidence is there for those who wish to look. OPEN YOUR EYES.


Oh I see, you are just taking the piss.

[barney_rubble]

The plot thickens: Tim Horton's name appears on the Stanley Cup(link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Cup)) three times.
Lord Stanley (link (http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/stanley_f/stanley_f.html))after whom the cup was named was also a Freemason.

In February 1974, Tim Horton died in a "tragic" car accident.
What were the reasons for Tim Horton's mysterious death?

Possibly because the secret formula to his coffee revealed too many masonic secrets
3 degress in a regular craft lodge - 3 ingredients in a regular coffee (coffee, cream, sugar) - most likely goat's cream too.
Two regular coffees = 3 + 3 = 33. OMG!
Possibly because Lord Stanley's hiers were not getting enough of the coffee kick-backs.


The truth may never be known but the evidence is there for those who wish to look. OPEN YOUR EYES.


Oh I see, you are just taking the piss.
Who me?

Everything I have stated is true!
Except the reasons for Tim Horton's death which I prefaced with possibly.

So I speak only fact - and indicate were I speculate.

As I am sure so do you.

[elirien]

do you mean the masons are spreading into the new age movement ?

there will still be initations and degrees though won't they carried out somewhere, a power/pyramid structure will still be in place.

but perhaps the great work is now in fruition so there is no more need for masons ?

Well since this new age bs was started by Helena Petrovna Blavatsky who after starting this bs became a mason then you can in a way say that it was at least influenced by it. I also heard that Albert Pike became one of the first members of the Theosophical Society (well that guy has some influence). The scottish rite publication was also called the "new age" probably meaning the age of aquarius, the age of the illumined man.

http://www.scottishrite.org/web/journal-files/Issues/jan-feb04/boettjer-collage.jpg

William cooper has very interesting things to say about this. you should check him out.

[mike martin]

Well since this new age bs was started by Helena Petrovna Blavatsky who after starting this bs became a mason then you can in a way say that it was at least influenced by it.

http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/esoterica/blavatsky_hp/blavatsky_hp.html

July 30, 1831 - May 8, 1891
Russian born author of Isis Unvealed and The Secret Doctrine, Madame Blavatsky, with the American Colonel Henry Steel Olcott, founded the Theosophical Society in 1875.
Although she was presented with a Certificate of the Rite of Adoption by John Yarker in 1877, she had no association with regular Freemasonry, as the following quote will attest:
If you will kindly refer to my Isis Unveiled (Vol. II, p. 394), you will find me saying: "we are under neither promise, obligation, nor oath, and therefore violate no confidence"--reference being made to Western Masonry, to the criticism of which the chapter is devoted; and full assurance is given that I have never taken "the regular degrees" in any Western Masonic Lodge. Of course, therefore, having taken no such degree, I am not a thirty-third degree Mason. (Blavatsky's own words)

I also heard that Albert Pike became one of the first members of the Theosophical Society (well that guy has some influence).
Heard where? Nothing that Pike wrote made such a statement and let's be honest he would hardly have made a secret of it.

The scottish rite publication was also called the "new age" probably meaning the age of aquarius, the age of the illumined man.
First, only the Southern Jurisdiction of the US's newsletter was called "The New Age" and it was just called that because it started at the turn of the 20th Century, nowadays (since 1990) it is called the "Scottish Rite Journal". The Northern Jurisdiction publishes The " Northern Light", Canada has "The Communique" etc etc.

So to sum up these 3 neighbouring SR jurisdictions all had their own newsletters, so to try and paint the SJ's one across the whole Scottish Rite just doesn't work.

Mike

[the guy in pink]

Think about this for a moment. You could argue that they are the elite and so there is no chance of it, but look carefully. It seems a lot of masons are old these days and the young people are not really getting involved with them so much.

The experience in my two (small) lodges is different, we certainly have 3 members with over 50 years membership (I have 31years) but we have a large contingent of 30 to 40 years olds and our we have two members in their early 20's , one who joined just two months after his 21st birthday.

The number of members is about 10% up on what it was 30 years ago.

I am a fairly typical member, Although we have a small business that my wife runs from home, I work for a boss and am often located away from home for months at a time on remote construction or mining sites. Hardly an elite life style

[elirien]

http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/esoterica/blavatsky_hp/blavatsky_hp.html

July 30, 1831 - May 8, 1891
Russian born author of Isis Unvealed and The Secret Doctrine, Madame Blavatsky, with the American Colonel Henry Steel Olcott, founded the Theosophical Society in 1875.
Although she was presented with a Certificate of the Rite of Adoption by John Yarker in 1877, she had no association with regular Freemasonry, as the following quote will attest:
If you will kindly refer to my Isis Unveiled (Vol. II, p. 394), you will find me saying: "we are under neither promise, obligation, nor oath, and therefore violate no confidence"--reference being made to Western Masonry, to the criticism of which the chapter is devoted; and full assurance is given that I have never taken "the regular degrees" in any Western Masonic Lodge. Of course, therefore, having taken no such degree, I am not a thirty-third degree Mason. (Blavatsky's own words)

I don't think that I could find a documentation for that right now (or perhaps ever). Although I don't believe that she needs to take the lower degrees since she explains in Isis unveiled the secrets of some degrees (I saw that while browsing through the book) and we have this claim of course:

(..)My Masonic experience – if you will so term membership in several Eastern Masonic Fraternities and Esoteric Brotherhoods – is confined to the Orient. But, nevertheless, this neither prevents my knowing, in common with all Eastern "Masons," everything connected with Western Masonry (including the numberless humbugs that have been imposed upon the Craft during the last half century) nor, since the receipt of the diploma from the "Sovereign Grand Master," of which you publish the text, my being entitled to call myself a Mason.(..)


source: http://theosophy.org/Blavatsky/Articles/HPBlavatskysMasonicPatent.htm


Heard where? Nothing that Pike wrote made such a statement and let's be honest he would hardly have made a secret of it.

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Freemasonry.htm#Theosophy

Well I could e-mail the site for his source if you'd like.


First, only the Southern Jurisdiction of the US's newsletter was called "The New Age" and it was just called that because it started at the turn of the 20th Century, nowadays (since 1990) it is called the "Scottish Rite Journal". The Northern Jurisdiction publishes The " Northern Light", Canada has "The Communique" etc etc.

So to sum up these 3 neighbouring SR jurisdictions all had their own newsletters, so to try and paint the SJ's one across the whole Scottish Rite just doesn't work.

Mike

O.k. then. That's my ignorance.

That looks too exoteric for me. Why wasn't it called the new millenium then? There are many options to name a publication after the turn of the century for example: turn of the century :)

The connection between the southern jurisdiction and theosophy is on Pike's shoulders then. I'll try later on to dig up some fact on that one. But their perspective on lucifer at least are the same, which we can see in morals and dogma and which was later on reflected by Benjamin Creme, who we could say was a fan of the whole theosophic concept.

[baron von lotsov]

The experience in my two (small) lodges is different, we certainly have 3 members with over 50 years membership (I have 31years) but we have a large contingent of 30 to 40 years olds and our we have two members in their early 20's , one who joined just two months after his 21st birthday.

The number of members is about 10% up on what it was 30 years ago.

I am a fairly typical member, Although we have a small business that my wife runs from home, I work for a boss and am often located away from home for months at a time on remote construction or mining sites. Hardly an elite life style

It's the ones that dabble with the occult that seem to be favoured by the elite. I don't think all masons do this, but around in this area we have a lot of occultists and some are getting rather richer than the rest of us without any visible explanation for it.

The title was aimed at more of an enquiry into it since I have only seen what I have seen and can't speak for every town and what goes on. I suspect they want to increase their workers and so this New Age mind control is especially geared towards women, as is the rest of society.

[mike martin]

I don't think that I could find a documentation for that right now (or perhaps ever). Although I don't believe that she needs to take the lower degrees since she explains in Isis unveiled the secrets of some degrees (I saw that while browsing through the book) and we have this claim of course:

We all have to take the lower degrees, regardless what form of Freemasonry and that includes the Eastern Order of Co-Freemasonry which is what she refers to. The point here is that the Eastern Order still operates seperately from the main target which is the kind I'm a member of that being men-only. Her influence, and she did influence it heavily, is within Co-masonry, which is heavily influenced by Theosophic teachings.

That looks too exoteric for me. Why wasn't it called the new millenium then? There are many options to name a publication after the turn of the century for example: turn of the century :)

That just the way it was and there's no point to try and justify or explain it 100 years later

The connection between the southern jurisdiction and theosophy is on Pike's shoulders then. I'll try later on to dig up some fact on that one. But their perspective on lucifer at least are the same, which we can see in morals and dogma and which was later on reflected by Benjamin Creme, who we could say was a fan of the whole theosophic concept.

I think that if you asked a SJ Scottish Rite Mason about a link he'd laugh at you, they are seperate things but they have a common link in their claimed legendary origins. Theosophy can, probably rightly, be accused of copying.

Mike

[elirien]

We all have to take the lower degrees, regardless what form of Freemasonry and that includes the Eastern Order of Co-Freemasonry which is what she refers to. The point here is that the Eastern Order still operates seperately from the main target which is the kind I'm a member of that being men-only. Her influence, and she did influence it heavily, is within Co-masonry, which is heavily influenced by Theosophic teachings.

The point is why you need to take the degrees. Some honorary professors in for example music got their degrees by their own effort, not by college training.


That just the way it was and there's no point to try and justify or explain it 100 years later

Yeah. That's the same thing they say about Kennedy or Jesus. The degree of importance that are put on these issues are truly voluntary.



I think that if you asked a SJ Scottish Rite Mason about a link he'd laugh at you, they are seperate things but they have a common link in their claimed legendary origins. Theosophy can, probably rightly, be accused of copying.

Mike

Laughter is always good. Helps people cope (not necessarily on this issue). We'll see if there is a connection or not in time.

[mike martin]

The point is why you need to take the degrees. Some honorary professors in for example music got their degrees by their own effort, not by college training.
Masonic Degrees and Education Degrees are different. You can illustrate enough knowledge to be awarded an "honourary" educational Degree but a Masonic degree is an experience not a matter of knowledge

Yeah. That's the same thing they say about Kennedy or Jesus. The degree of importance that are put on these issues are truly voluntary.
Way off target. The difference in importance is huge. Do you see what i mean, name of a Masonic magazine, a murdered President, someone who, it is claimed was killed and then bodily ascended into Heaven thereby proving his connection to God.

Mike

[elirien]

Masonic Degrees and Education Degrees are different. You can illustrate enough knowledge to be awarded an "honourary" educational Degree but a Masonic degree is an experience not a matter of knowledge

Then what is the experience besides the rituals and gatherings that are involved which we could see as similar to have the college 'experience'.


Way off target. The difference in importance is huge. Do you see what i mean, name of a Masonic magazine, a murdered President, someone who, it is claimed was killed and then bodily ascended into Heaven thereby proving his connection to God.

Mike

I don't think so and let me explain why. For an individual that doesn't identifies himself with labels put on him by humanity (like nationality, a job, etc.) the difference resides in a battle of principalities. Killing Kennedy, Princess Diana etc. is something out of the reach for many people as well as the connection of a club with lucifer worshipers. They are both sentences which affect the future manifesting materially. From my distance they are both equally important because they are both pieces of a puzzle (mostly the same puzzle). Am I coming across? :)

[mike martin]

Then what is the experience besides the rituals and gatherings that are involved which we could see as similar to have the college 'experience'.
You're confusing yourself!

You made the point that an educational degree can be gained without experiencing the course (college), I pointed out that a Masonic degree cannot.

A Masonic degree is part of an initiatic tradition, therefore without going through the Initiation there is no degree. The Initiation is the Ritual and the gatherings are being part of other Initiations, there is no such thing as self-initiation in Freemasonry.

I don't think so and let me explain why. For an individual that doesn't identifies himself with labels put on him by humanity (like nationality, a job, etc.) the difference resides in a battle of principalities. Killing Kennedy, Princess Diana etc. is something out of the reach for many people as well as the connection of a club with lucifer worshipers. They are both sentences which affect the future manifesting materially. From my distance they are both equally important because they are both pieces of a puzzle (mostly the same puzzle). Am I coming across? :)

No not really. All I can do is refer you back to a way earlier post where I tried to help people understand that the whole "lucifer" thing is a recent populist thing and that reading the Bible will quickly show that Lucifer is not actually the name of the Adversary.

However this bit is way boring because you've decided to inflate the total irrelevence of a magazine's name into some kind of issue. If it's name was so important why have they changed it? That simple question should help you over that hurdle.

Mike

[elirien]

You're confusing yourself!

You made the point that an educational degree can be gained without experiencing the course (college), I pointed out that a Masonic degree cannot.

A Masonic degree is part of an initiatic tradition, therefore without going through the Initiation there is no degree. The Initiation is the Ritual and the gatherings are being part of other Initiations, there is no such thing as self-initiation in Freemasonry.

No, I'm not. If someone knows the rituals and symbolism inside out what is there more to say that you are a freemason besides socializing? I know that being a freemason is proving yourself to other masons but is there anything else intellectually rather then socially?




No not really. All I can do is refer you back to a way earlier post where I tried to help people understand that the whole "lucifer" thing is a recent populist thing and that reading the Bible will quickly show that Lucifer is not actually the name of the Adversary.

However this bit is way boring because you've decided to inflate the total irrelevence of a magazine's name into some kind of issue. If it's name was so important why have they changed it? That simple question should help you over that hurdle.

Mike

I never said he was the Adversary (or Satan). If you think that Manly P. Hall or Pike is populist then that is your opinion. I didn't inflate anything. I just said that there was a magazine in the scottish rite and that that showed some connection with a concept of a new age rather then a new millenium or year or way of thinking.

I'm still waiting for an email from that website. If I wont get anything out of them I'll send some emails to others who claim that Pike was a member of the theosophic society. If I wasn't so busy reading other things I would love to read Pike's writings on Aryan's and Lucifer to compare them to what Benjamin Creme and Blavatksy wrote. Maybe another day.

[mike martin]

No, I'm not. If someone knows the rituals and symbolism inside out what is there more to say that you are a freemason besides socializing? I know that being a freemason is proving yourself to other masons but is there anything else intellectually rather then socially?
I have already answered this first time. The word is "initiatic"

I never said he was the Adversary (or Satan).
If you already understand that the term "luciferian" doesn't actually mean of the Adversary why do you use the term as if there is somethng bad about it.

As has been pointed out many time the term "luciferian" has been coined by anti-Masons and comes from the one mention of "Lucifer" in Morals and Dogma by Albert Pike. This one mention has been used for several decades to try and insinuate that Freemasonry is linked to devil worship.

Pike himself was questioning why even at that time Lucifer was being applied to the Adversary when it had not been used so in the Bible and had even been used there to describe Jesus himself.

If you think that Manly P. Hall or Pike is populist then that is your opinion. I didn't inflate anything. I just said that there was a magazine in the scottish rite and that that showed some connection with a concept of a new age rather then a new millenium or year or way of thinking.
I think if you have a look back through history, nearly every new century has been acclaimed as a "new age" by someone or other. Except that is for the turn of the 11th Century which in common with the 21st was widely believed to be the beginning of the Apocolypse and Armageddon. "Age" "Millenium" totally irrelevant.

I'm still waiting for an email from that website. If I wont get anything out of them I'll send some emails to others who claim that Pike was a member of the theosophic society. If I wasn't so busy reading other things I would love to read Pike's writings on Aryan's and Lucifer to compare them to what Benjamin Creme and Blavatksy wrote. Maybe another day.

Cool, however, even if his writings are similar it still only confirms the same source material no more.

Mike

[elirien]

I have already answered this first time. The word is "initiatic"

This is what you said:

A Masonic degree is part of an initiatic tradition, therefore without going through the Initiation there is no degree. The Initiation is the Ritual and the gatherings are being part of other Initiations, there is no such thing as self-initiation in Freemasonry.

What point is there besides intellectual gains in masonic concepts in the degrees then? If it is gathering masons together to initiate another lower degree mason then this tradition is more in the line of an organized religion since it has the obligation to do a ritual in mass.


If you already understand that the term "luciferian" doesn't actually mean of the Adversary why do you use the term as if there is somethng bad about it.

As has been pointed out many time the term "luciferian" has been coined by anti-Masons and comes from the one mention of "Lucifer" in Morals and Dogma by Albert Pike. This one mention has been used for several decades to try and insinuate that Freemasonry is linked to devil worship.


I see Lucifer as the re-presantation of human intellect which is a bad thing to worship. It's pure arrogance. It is the only thing that stops people from researching more into the nature of reality. I could go on and on about that but we would be drifting off topic (which we have done allready actually).



Pike himself was questioning why even at that time Lucifer was being applied to the Adversary when it had not been used so in the Bible and had even been used there to describe Jesus himself.


You mean the morning star reference. I don't think that the bible says that they are the same people. I looked in the King James version and there is Revelations 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." and there is Revelations 2:28 "And I will give him the morning star.". Oh and there is "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?". I'm not sure how to connect morning star with light bringer.


I think if you have a look back through history, nearly every new century has been acclaimed as a "new age" by someone or other. Except that is for the turn of the 11th Century which in common with the 21st was widely believed to be the beginning of the Apocolypse and Armageddon. "Age" "Millenium" totally irrelevant.

That could be but the New Age is being also used for the coming age of aquarius.

I don't have the proof before me but I do believe that the new age term is lately being used for the new man, the illumined man who will rise out of the ashes of the old man, the profane in the new platonic year. This is just what I heard and read from William Cooper's radio show who used masonic sources to prove his claims.

I think every mason in this forum should listen to his mystery babylon series at least once.


Cool, however, even if his writings are similar it still only confirms the same source material no more.

Mike

Well that would be enough for me at least. What more do you want if Pike and Hall say the same things as Blavatsky, Bailey, Creme and the others who 'channeled' that information. The basis is luciferian.

I think this topic should be split since we drifted far away from the point. Could a moderator help us out here?

[barney_rubble]

What point is there besides intellectual gains in masonic concepts in the degrees then? If it is gathering masons together to initiate another lower degree mason then this tradition is more in the line of an organized religion since it has the obligation to do a ritual in mass.



Sorry to jump in here guys but I just want to say something to this point.

Freemasonry is not something that can "fully" understood by reading about it.
You must experience it to get the full meaning. Some learning requires experience.

Would you want your heart surgeon to have his/her entire knowledge comes from text books? I am sure you would want to hear that the Dr. had performed the procedure before, during an assist or on a cadaver at the very least.

The point is Freemasonry must be experienced to be fully understood.

[elirien]

Sorry to jump in here guys but I just want to say something to this point.

Freemasonry is not something that can "fully" understood by reading about it.
You must experience it to get the full meaning. Some learning requires experience.

Would you want your heart surgeon to have his/her entire knowledge comes from text books? I am sure you would want to hear that the Dr. had performed the procedure before, during an assist or on a cadaver at the very least.

The point is Freemasonry must be experienced to be fully understood.

I can understand why a heart surgeon does what he does. I can't understand why freemasons do their rituals (well not only masonic rituals, I can't understand rituals in general actually besides being a form of mind control).

[mike martin]

What point is there besides intellectual gains in masonic concepts in the degrees then? If it is gathering masons together to initiate another lower degree mason then this tradition is more in the line of an organized religion since it has the obligation to do a ritual in mass.
I can't really respond to this cos I see things differently from you. I removed myself from "religion" many years ago. I see no connection between Freemasonry and a religion because there is no dogma, no theology and no salvation, only support for each brothers' own faith by taking part in ceremonies that should focus each of us on moral behaviours. No-one in a Lodge is "ordained" to carry out the degree ceremonies, they are carried out by Lodge members purely by virtue of our shared experience.

I see Lucifer as the re-presantation of human intellect which is a bad thing to worship. It's pure arrogance. It is the only thing that stops people from researching more into the nature of reality. I could go on and on about that but we would be drifting off topic (which we have done allready actually).

You mean the morning star reference. I don't think that the bible says that they are the same people. I looked in the King James version and there is Revelations 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." and there is Revelations 2:28 "And I will give him the morning star.". Oh and there is "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?". I'm not sure how to connect morning star with light bringer.

See this is another place where we part company. Lucifer is a description it is not a name. There is no specific Lucifer in the Bible, it means light bringer and it was applied to several characters in the Bible. If you really think about it no-one seriously worships Lucifer (except in films and books) because it is a concept not an entity, like the phrase "worshipping money".

The morning star-lucifer connection is well known, outside of conspiracy circles it would seem. Here's just one reference:

Lucifer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Here's an article about a Saint lucifer ( a bit strange if Lucifer was bad)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Lucifer

There are plenty more, all you have to do is widen your vision.

That could be but the New Age is being also used for the coming age of aquarius.
Being is the operative word. Like all things the term has been used to describe many things through the ages. When you are looking at old stuff you have to be able to let-go of your modern concepts to even begin to understand what the people who used it a long-time ago would've meant.

It's a bit like the word "gay", 50 yers ago it did not mean a homosexual but that is what the majority of people take it to mean now. So when reading a book from 60 years ago the phrase "he was quite gay" doesn't mean what it does to a modern reader.

I don't have the proof before me but I do believe that the new age term is lately being used for the new man, the illumined man who will rise out of the ashes of the old man, the profane in the new platonic year. This is just what I heard and read from William Cooper's radio show who used masonic sources to prove his claims.

I think every mason in this forum should listen to his mystery babylon series at least once.
Listened to it and addressed some of the crap in it, like Manley Palmer Hall that everyone here insists calling a Masonic auhority when he wasn't even a Mason. Then I got bored and realised that I shouldn't waste my time as no one here actually cares about the reality cos they want to do exactly what he told them not to do, just believe.


Well that would be enough for me at least. What more do you want if Pike and Hall say the same things as Blavatsky, Bailey, Creme and the others who 'channeled' that information. The basis is luciferian.
Channelled?? have a laugh. Reading books then copying their content and claiming it as your own is bollox not channelling.

Mike

[mike martin]

I can understand why a heart surgeon does what he does. I can't understand why freemasons do their rituals (well not only masonic rituals, I can't understand rituals in general actually besides being a form of mind control).

Well I suppose the obvious question is have you ever read the Rituals of Freemasonry?

I don't mean the made-up stuff either I mean the real actual rituals used by us.

Mike

[barney_rubble]

Being is the operative word. Like all things the term has been used to describe many things through the ages. When you are looking at old stuff you have to be able to let-go of your modern concepts to even begin to understand what the people who used it a long-time ago would've meant.

It's a bit like the word "gay", 50 years ago it did not mean a homosexual but that is what the majority of people take it to mean now. So when reading a book from 60 years ago the phrase "he was quite gay" doesn't mean what it does to a modern reader.


Ahhh - now I can see the Christmas Carol, "Deck the Halls", in a new light.
Deck the halls with boughs of holly,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Tis the season to be jolly,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

Don we now our gay apparel,
Fa la la, la la la, la la la.
Troll the ancient Yule tide carol,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

...

I was very confused as a child I thought "Don" was a homosexual.

[elirien]

I can't really respond to this cos I see things differently from you. I removed myself from "religion" many years ago. I see no connection between Freemasonry and a religion because there is no dogma, no theology and no salvation, only support for each brothers' own faith by taking part in ceremonies that should focus each of us on moral behaviours. No-one in a Lodge is "ordained" to carry out the degree ceremonies, they are carried out by Lodge members purely by virtue of our shared experience.

Well the first definition in dictionary.com on the topic of religion just seems like masonry is a religion:

http://dictionary.reference.com/dic?q=religion&search=search

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.



See this is another place where we part company. Lucifer is a description it is not a name. There is no specific Lucifer in the Bible, it means light bringer and it was applied to several characters in the Bible. If you really think about it no-one seriously worships Lucifer (except in films and books) because it is a concept not an entity, like the phrase "worshipping money".

Well:

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

You know there are names which are descriptions in non-english languages. There are many in Turkish.


The morning star-lucifer connection is well known, outside of conspiracy circles it would seem. Here's just one reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer
Here's an article about a Saint lucifer ( a bit strange if Lucifer was bad)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Lucifer

There are plenty more, all you have to do is widen your vision.


I'm not sure if you would see this as biased information:

http://www.ccg.org/english/s/p223.html

I still see Lucifer as a bad concept because of the context luciferians attributed to it (long to explain and I'm definitely too lazy for that tonight). The morning star reference in the bible could also be used as an adjective as mentioned in that christian article.



Being is the operative word. Like all things the term has been used to describe many things through the ages. When you are looking at old stuff you have to be able to let-go of your modern concepts to even begin to understand what the people who used it a long-time ago would've meant.

It's a bit like the word "gay", 50 yers ago it did not mean a homosexual but that is what the majority of people take it to mean now. So when reading a book from 60 years ago the phrase "he was quite gay" doesn't mean what it does to a modern reader.

Well new age as the age of aquarius sounds quite better for a club that likes the osirian cycle and plato very very much. this is not some slang word.


Listened to it and addressed some of the crap in it, like Manley Palmer Hall that everyone here insists calling a Masonic auhority when he wasn't even a Mason. Then I got bored and realised that I shouldn't waste my time as no one here actually cares about the reality cos they want to do exactly what he told them not to do, just believe.

Could you explain how he was not a mason or is it the same thing like blavatsky?



Channelled?? have a laugh. Reading books then copying their content and claiming it as your own is bollox not channelling.

Mike

Well at least that's what they claim. I didn't see them write that occult bs. It could be both.


Barney, you're being a troll now. Stop it please.

[mike martin]

Well the first definition in dictionary.com on the topic of religion just seems like masonry is a religion:

http://dictionary.reference.com/dic?...&search=search


Quote:
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
Well that would be true if those things were true of Freemasonry. Nothing within Freemasonry either does or even claims to address the universe, it is all directed to the person (going through the degrees). This is also true of the moral code it is for the individual Mason.


Well:

Quote:
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Unfortunately the whole thing actually goes (this is from the NIV Bible):

3 On the day the LORD gives you relief from suffering and turmoil and cruel bondage, 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:
How the oppressor has come to an end!
How his fury [a] has ended!

5 The LORD has broken the rod of the wicked,
the scepter of the rulers,

6 which in anger struck down peoples
with unceasing blows,
and in fury subdued nations
with relentless aggression.

7 All the lands are at rest and at peace;
they break into singing.

8 Even the pine trees and the cedars of Lebanon
exult over you and say,
"Now that you have been laid low,
no woodsman comes to cut us down."

9 The grave below is all astir
to meet you at your coming;
it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you—
all those who were leaders in the world;
it makes them rise from their thrones—
all those who were kings over the nations.

10 They will all respond,
they will say to you,
"You also have become weak, as we are;
you have become like us."

11 All your pomp has been brought down to the grave,
along with the noise of your harps;
maggots are spread out beneath you
and worms cover you.

12 [B]How you have fallen from heaven,
O *morning star, son of the dawn! (*"Lucifer" in the KJV Bible)
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

13 You said in your heart,
"I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. [c]

14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High."

15 But you are brought down to the grave,
to the depths of the pit.

16 Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
"Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,

17 the man who made the world a desert,
who overthrew its cities
and would not let his captives go home?"

18 All the kings of the nations lie in state,
each in his own tomb.

19 But you are cast out of your tomb
like a rejected branch;
you are covered with the slain,
with those pierced by the sword,
those who descend to the stones of the pit.
Like a corpse trampled underfoot,

20 you will not join them in burial,
for you have destroyed your land
and killed your people.
The offspring of the wicked
will never be mentioned again.

21 Prepare a place to slaughter his sons
for the sins of their forefathers;
they are not to rise to inherit the land
and cover the earth with their cities.

22 "I will rise up against them,"
declares the LORD Almighty.
"I will cut off from Babylon her name and survivors,
her offspring and descendants,"
declares the LORD.

23 "I will turn her into a place for owls
and into swampland;
I will sweep her with the broom of destruction,"
declares the LORD Almighty.

This parable of the prophet is expressly directed against the King of Babylon!


I'm not sure if you would see this as biased information:

http://www.ccg.org/english/s/p223.html

I still see Lucifer as a bad concept because of the context luciferians attributed to it (long to explain and I'm definitely too lazy for that tonight). The morning star reference in the bible could also be used as an adjective as mentioned in that christian article.
Yes I would but I would also consider this to be biased:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09410a.htm
Lucifer
tt=77
(Hebrew helel; Septuagint heosphoros, Vulgate lucifer)

The name Lucifer originally denotes the planet Venus, emphasizing its brilliance. The Vulgate employs the word also for "the light of the morning" (Job 11:17), "the signs of the zodiac" (Job 38:32), and "the aurora" (Psalm 109:3). Metaphorically, the word is applied to the King of Babylon (Isaiah 14:12) as preeminent among the princes of his time; to the high priest Simon son of Onias (Ecclesiasticus 50:6), for his surpassing virtue, to the glory of heaven (Apocalypse 2:28), by reason of its excellency; finally to Jesus Christ himself (2 Peter 1:19; Apocalypse 22:16; the "Exultet" of Holy Saturday) the true light of our spiritual life.

The Syriac version and the version of Aquila derive the Hebrew noun helel from the verb yalal, "to lament"; St. Jerome agrees with them (In Isaiah 1.14), and makes Lucifer the name of the principal fallen angel who must lament the loss of his original glory bright as the morning star. In Christian tradition this meaning of Lucifer has prevailed; the Fathers maintain that Lucifer is not the proper name of the devil, but denotes only the state from which he has fallen (Petavius, De Angelis, III, iii, 4).

But it at least supplies the whole picture which is rather important when it comes to understanding a thing.

Well new age as the age of aquarius sounds quite better for a club that likes the osirian cycle and plato very very much. this is not some slang word.
Again I would really strongly suggest you read our Rituals to find out if we really like Osiris that much, everyone likes Plato, here's why
All men are by nature equal, made all of the same earth by one Workman; and however we deceive ourselves, as dear unto God is the poor peasant as the mighty prince.

Could you explain how he was not a mason or is it the same thing like blavatsky?
Oh it's very different and once again it is something I have posted here several times before.

Manly Palmer Hall wrote his books on Freemasonry in the 1920s, 25years and more before he was actually Initiated into a Masonic Lodge. When he wrote his books that Anti-masons are so keen to quote from, as if he was some kind of a Masonic "authority", he had never even been inside a Lodge Room. After his Initiation in 1954 he actually added to the preface of "the Lost Keys of Freemasonry" these words "At the time I wrote this slender volume, I had just passed my twenty-first birthday, and my only contact with Freemasonry was through a few books commonly available to the public". He wrote 75 books only 5 of them were actually about Freemasonry the rest were all about his interest which was just about everything mystical.


Well at least that's what they claim. I didn't see them write that occult bs. It could be both. .

Here's a claim for you. I just realised that by your logic, I have in fact attained the 96th Degree because I have read and studied the ceremonies of the Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis and Misraim:D:D

Mike

[elirien]

Well that would be true if those things were true of Freemasonry. Nothing within Freemasonry either does or even claims to address the universe, it is all directed to the person (going through the degrees). This is also true of the moral code it is for the individual Mason.



Unfortunately the whole thing actually goes (this is from the NIV Bible):

3 On the day the LORD gives you relief from suffering and turmoil and cruel bondage, 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:
How the oppressor has come to an end!
How his fury [a] has ended!

5 The LORD has broken the rod of the wicked,
the scepter of the rulers,

6 which in anger struck down peoples
with unceasing blows,
and in fury subdued nations
with relentless aggression.

7 All the lands are at rest and at peace;
they break into singing.

8 Even the pine trees and the cedars of Lebanon
exult over you and say,
"Now that you have been laid low,
no woodsman comes to cut us down."

9 The grave below is all astir
to meet you at your coming;
it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you—
all those who were leaders in the world;
it makes them rise from their thrones—
all those who were kings over the nations.

10 They will all respond,
they will say to you,
"You also have become weak, as we are;
you have become like us."

11 All your pomp has been brought down to the grave,
along with the noise of your harps;
maggots are spread out beneath you
and worms cover you.

12 [B]How you have fallen from heaven,
O *morning star, son of the dawn! (*"Lucifer" in the KJV Bible)
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

13 You said in your heart,
"I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. [c]

14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High."

15 But you are brought down to the grave,
to the depths of the pit.

16 Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
"Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,

17 the man who made the world a desert,
who overthrew its cities
and would not let his captives go home?"

18 All the kings of the nations lie in state,
each in his own tomb.

19 But you are cast out of your tomb
like a rejected branch;
you are covered with the slain,
with those pierced by the sword,
those who descend to the stones of the pit.
Like a corpse trampled underfoot,

20 you will not join them in burial,
for you have destroyed your land
and killed your people.
The offspring of the wicked
will never be mentioned again.

21 Prepare a place to slaughter his sons
for the sins of their forefathers;
they are not to rise to inherit the land
and cover the earth with their cities.

22 "I will rise up against them,"
declares the LORD Almighty.
"I will cut off from Babylon her name and survivors,
her offspring and descendants,"
declares the LORD.

23 "I will turn her into a place for owls
and into swampland;
I will sweep her with the broom of destruction,"
declares the LORD Almighty.

This parable of the prophet is expressly directed against the King of Babylon!



Yes I would but I would also consider this to be biased:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09410a.htm


But it at least supplies the whole picture which is rather important when it comes to understanding a thing.


Again I would really strongly suggest you read our Rituals to find out if we really like Osiris that much, everyone likes Plato, here's why



I need to research these further more. I think that I have not enough knowledge to further this debate. Although I watched the rituals of the blue lodge and don't think that grown men should pay to do amateur theater like that. Looked pretty silly imho. I need to study this further more.


Oh it's very different and once again it is something I have posted here several times before.

Manly Palmer Hall wrote his books on Freemasonry in the 1920s, 25years and more before he was actually Initiated into a Masonic Lodge. When he wrote his books that Anti-masons are so keen to quote from, as if he was some kind of a Masonic "authority", he had never even been inside a Lodge Room. After his Initiation in 1954 he actually added to the preface of "the Lost Keys of Freemasonry" these words "At the time I wrote this slender volume, I had just passed my twenty-first birthday, and my only contact with Freemasonry was through a few books commonly available to the public". He wrote 75 books only 5 of them were actually about Freemasonry the rest were all about his interest which was just about everything mystical.


Interesting. One learns every day :)


Here's a claim for you. I just realised that by your logic, I have in fact attained the 96th Degree because I have read and studied the ceremonies of the Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis and Misraim:D:D

Mike

You could be 120 th degree Santa Claus cultist. How could I know :)

I could be the Duke of Kent who got a hit on the head and forgot decent english as far as you could know (o.k. that was a bit out there lol).

Well I thank you for this very good debate. Again as I said, I need to further study these concepts to be convinced that people from the New Age have no connection what so ever with freemasonry.

Thanks again.

[barney_rubble]

I always keep this link in my back pocket for the "Jesus/Lucifer Freemason" debate.

Venus, the Devil, Jack Chick and the Freemasons (http://www.risingstar.co.za/Lucifer.html)

The point is the Bible can be intrepreted many ways, and when you throw in all the various translations you have a bigger mess to sort out.
We should all learn Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Coptic and read the earliest "documents" available.

[mike martin]

I need to research these further more. I think that I have not enough knowledge to further this debate. Although I watched the rituals of the blue lodge and don't think that grown men should pay to do amateur theater like that. Looked pretty silly imho. I need to study this further more.

Interesting. One learns every day :)

You could be 120 th degree Santa Claus cultist. How could I know :)

I could be the Duke of Kent who got a hit on the head and forgot decent english as far as you could know (o.k. that was a bit out there lol).

Well I thank you for this very good debate. Again as I said, I need to further study these concepts to be convinced that people from the New Age have no connection what so ever with freemasonry.

Thanks again.

Do you know it's nice to actually swap ideas with someone with an open-mind and a better grasp of the english language than many of the english people on here.

Mike

[elirien]

I always keep this link in my back pocket for the "Jesus/Lucifer Freemason" debate.

Venus, the Devil, Jack Chick and the Freemasons (http://www.risingstar.co.za/Lucifer.html)



The point is the Bible can be intrepreted many ways, and when you throw in all the various translations you have a bigger mess to sort out.
We should all learn Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Coptic and read the earliest "documents" available.

Thanks barney. Will check it out later in the evening.
Well the bible is a complicated text on its own besides its translation complications.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7651105.stm

look at that.

Do you know it's nice to actually swap ideas with someone with an open-mind and a better grasp of the english language than many of the english people on here.

Mike

Thank you. I'm not so sure about part concerning english but thank you anyway :)

[eastbeast]

Do you know it's nice to actually swap ideas with someone with an open-mind and a better grasp of the english language than many of the english people on here.

Mike


I quite agree Mike, its nice to read posts by someone who is obviously intelligent, and despite his modesty has a very good command of English.
Thank you from me elirien.

[mike martin]

Thanks barney. Will check it out later in the evening.
Well the bible is a complicated text on its own besides its translation complications.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7651105.stm

look at that.
very interesting, I can't wait to see some of the comparisons.

Thank you. I'm not so sure about part concerning english but thank you anyway :)
I'm being serious, credit where it's due. When you are faced with material that you're not aware of, instead of being abusive and falling back on swearing and name calling, you actually work it out. That can't be easy when english is not your first language.

Mike

[elirien]

I'm being serious, credit where it's due. When you are faced with material that you're not aware of, instead of being abusive and falling back on swearing and name calling, you actually work it out. That can't be easy when english is not your first language.

Mike

Don't think that I have a weak swearing vocabulary. One of my main sources for learning daily english was southpark :D

It's not hard to write "I'm not sure" or "I don't know" because it is in a different language, it is hard because of ones pride and defining himself with his age,job, affiliations, milieu etc. .

It's a choice and I can respect both.

[barney_rubble]

I'm being serious, credit where it's due. When you are faced with material that you're not aware of, instead of being abusive and falling back on swearing and name calling, you actually work it out. That can't be easy when english is not your first language.


Hear, Hear!

Seriously Elirien I would not have know english wasn't your first language unless you had told us.

But then again my english ain't none to good at times neither.
A sentence fragment with a tripple negative. That works - right?????

[bigus_dickus]

people are seeing (or will see) the silliness of all this. magic rituals from way back ancient Egypt, mysticism, kabbalah, witchcraft and so on. all these have lost their purpose and meaning even for dedicated freemasons.

what if i hereby declare myself to be a master manson of 69 degree, top of the tops? i initiated myself with a secret initiation ritual that i am not going to tell you cause it's secret and there's a certain magic gesture that i can tell a regular human from a manson. we mansons look like normal people, but we are much better, because we did that secret initiation thing that we're not going to tell you.

we mansons, are superior to masons, because we have an extra "n" in our name. the highest degree you can reach as a manson is 60, but i am a 69er because i made all this shit up. a 69° manson, is 4x superior to a 33° mason. eat my dust freemasons, freemansons are here to rule. heheh :cool:

[keystone]

people are seeing (or will see) the silliness of all this. magic rituals from way back ancient Egypt, mysticism, kabbalah, witchcraft and so on. all these have lost their purpose and meaning even for dedicated freemasons.

what if i hereby declare myself to be a master manson of 69 degree, top of the tops? i initiated myself with a secret initiation ritual that i am not going to tell you cause it's secret and there's a certain magic gesture that i can tell a regular human from a manson. we mansons look like normal people, but we are much better, because we did that secret initiation thing that we're not going to tell you.

we mansons, are superior to masons, because we have an extra "n" in our name. the highest degree you can reach as a manson is 60, but i am a 69er because i made all this shit up. a 69° manson, is 4x superior to a 33° mason. eat my dust freemasons, freemansons are here to rule. heheh :cool:

Dig out Bro!

BTW the highest claimed degree (which most masons probably don't recognise as being "proper" masonry) is in the Ancient and Primitive Rite Of Memphis-Misraim which goes up to 95 or is it 96 and it's been around since the 1800s sometime. So yah boo sucks to your 69! :p:D:p:D

[bigus_dickus]

Dig out Bro!

BTW the highest claimed degree (which most masons probably don't recognise as being "proper" masonry) is in the Ancient and Primitive Rite Of Memphis-Misraim which goes up to 95 or is it 96 and it's been around since the 1800s sometime. So yah boo sucks to your 69! :p:D:p:D

no.. you don't understand. and you are right not to understand, because i am not willing to give away all the info about our secret organization.

but, to correct your misunderstanding, it is not the same analogy. as i said, a 69° freemanson is 4x 33° freemason, which makes it 4x33= 132° freemason. you just missed the analogies my friend, never forget that freemansons rule all and are awesome and stuff.

[keystone]

no.. you don't understand. and you are right not to understand, because i am not willing to give away all the info about our secret organization.

but, to correct your misunderstanding, it is not the same analogy. as i said, a 69° freemanson is 4x 33° freemason, which makes it 4x33= 132° freemason. you just missed the analogies my friend, never forget that freemansons rule all and are awesome and stuff.

Rats - hoist! OK you win.:D

[barney_rubble]

no.. you don't understand. and you are right not to understand, because i am not willing to give away all the info about our secret organization.

but, to correct your misunderstanding, it is not the same analogy. as i said, a 69° freemanson is 4x 33° freemason, which makes it 4x33= 132° freemason. you just missed the analogies my friend, never forget that freemansons rule all and are awesome and stuff.


Wow a 69° Manson. So do you have to carve a swastika in your forehead like your ultimate master "Charles".
I have two words for you; "Helter Skelter".
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Cibmca81GuRYhM:http://www.chuckhodi.net/charles_manson_happy.jpg

[bigus_dickus]

Wow a 69° Manson. So do you have to carve a swastika in your forehead like your ultimate master "Charles".
I have two words for you; "Helter Skelter".
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Cibmca81GuRYhM:http://www.chuckhodi.net/charles_manson_happy.jpg

i am not going to reveal the secrets of our organization. however, Charlie has never been a member, as the society started recently, but he is welcome if he wants, because of his name. there is only one ultimate 69 master and that's me. all other members are from 60 and below.

ok, i will only reveal that we get to carve something on our penises. that's it, don't push me any further.

[lottie]

i am not going to reveal the secrets of our organization. however, Charlie has never been a member, as the society started recently, but he is welcome if he wants, because of his name. there is only one ultimate 69 master and that's me. all other members are from 60 and below.

ok, i will only reveal that we get to carve something on our penises. that's it, don't push me any further.

Can us mere mortal, feeble, lower of the genders 'women' join? (I can stick a plasticine penis to my forehead if you prefer, to fit in??!!! )

[barney_rubble]

i am not going to reveal the secrets of our organization. however, Charlie has never been a member, as the society started recently, but he is welcome if he wants, because of his name. there is only one ultimate 69 master and that's me. all other members are from 60 and below.

ok, i will only reveal that we get to carve something on our penises. that's it, don't push me any further.

From the carving you discribe you are an elitist sexist group.
Go back to the dark ages where you belong. Any advantage you have should be shared with the public.

[bigus_dickus]

Can us mere mortal, feeble, lower of the genders 'women' join? (I can stick a plasticine penis to my forehead if you prefer, to fit in??!!! )

no, it's only for men! can't you see? MAN SON - MAN'S ON < all male there :P

only males have the right to experience this extreme nonsense, women have to bring up children and stuff. :D

[bigus_dickus]

From the carving you discribe you are an elitist sexist group.
Go back to the dark ages where you belong. Any advantage you have should be shared with the public.

damn right i am an elitist sexist group. and i am better than you, freaks ;)

[lottie]

no, it's only for men! can't you see? MAN SON - MAN'S ON < all male there :P

only males have the right to experience this extreme nonsense, women have to bring up children and stuff. :D

Oh ok, Im ever so sorry your lordship sorry for even living.......

*scuttles back to kitchen where one belongs*

[bigus_dickus]

Oh ok, Im ever so sorry your lordship sorry for even living.......

*scuttles back to kitchen where one belongs*

freemansons don't approve women feeling sorry, one of our objectives is to keep women happy! (that's one of the main reasons that women are not allowed in it)

(i mean, ask the (wannabe) rivals)

[lottie]

freemansons don't approve women feeling sorry, one of our objectives is to keep women happy! (that's one of the main reasons that women are not allowed in it)

(i mean, ask the (wannabe) rivals)

So if we were in it we wouldnt be happy? We're far too stupid to discern that for ourselves though yeah?!! So you guys decide for us.....?? ;)

[keystone]

So if we were in it we wouldnt be happy? We're far too stupid to discern that for ourselves though yeah?!! So you guys decide for us.....?? ;)Oh no he's quite wrong. There are many women freemasons - either women only Lodges or mixed Lodges. No reason for you not to join and be happy if you want to Lozzie.

[barney_rubble]

damn right i am an elitist sexist group. and i am better than you, freaks ;)

Well the Freemasons will never be beneath any "Feline-based life forms with self-mutilated genitalia" cult.

I will reveal now why Freemason will always be above the Freemansons - it is because all freemasons must first be members of "The Neptunati".
Darn now I will have to initiate you all!

Documentary Video on the "The Neptunati". (http://www.guba.com/watch/2000909724)

[lottie]

Oh no he's quite wrong. There are many women freemasons - either women only Lodges or mixed Lodges. No reason for you not to join and be happy if you want to Lozzie.

Only so i can get cheaper car insurance though....:D;)

[keystone]

only so i can get cheaper car insurance though....:d;)lmao

[elirien]

Lmao :D You guys are awesome. Might I add that there could be nothing good coming from a great room with only men in it. That's the primary reason why I don't like religion, secret societies and the military service besides penis fest rock bars.

[banoyes]

How come all you funny folks ain't on the humor section
(not that any of this crap is funny , well may be to deviate Masons)

[bigus_dickus]

So if we were in it we wouldnt be happy? We're far too stupid to discern that for ourselves though yeah?!! So you guys decide for us.....?? ;)

no, because in it we only discuss among fellas on how they can imitate my super sex skills that keep all women happy. women don't have a right to be happy, there is no right to happiness, they deserve it.

[bigus_dickus]

Oh no he's quite wrong. There are many women freemasons - either women only Lodges or mixed Lodges. No reason for you not to join and be happy if you want to Lozzie.

we have women's blodges too, for the same reason as yours, to mention them every time such annoying matters occur like sexism. they don't really do any significant work for humanity there, they just knit, sew, cook and discuss my great mastership.

[bigus_dickus]

Well the Freemasons will never be beneath any "Feline-based life forms with self-mutilated genitalia" cult.

I will reveal now why Freemason will always be above the Freemansons - it is because all freemasons must first be members of "The Neptunati".
Darn now I will have to initiate you all!

Documentary Video on the "The Neptunati". (http://www.guba.com/watch/2000909724)

the neptunati came from my awesome genius of grand master manson of sixty nine degree celsius.

i am always one too many steps ahead. that's because i am the grand master manson and i am that because i initiated to be him with an initiation ritual that is so secret, that no one is going to know it. unless he is a sixty nine degree master manson as well. therefore this is the only hope for you to learn the greatest secret of the universe, but i doubt you can make it. but i am sure that if you try enough, you can make it to be like me one day.

[keystone]

I bow before the great and glorius panjundrum of the east by north west whose meanderings never cease to amaze and inspire.
























Feel better now?

[barney_rubble]

the neptunati came from my awesome genius of grand master manson of sixty nine degree celsius.

i am always one too many steps ahead. that's because i am the grand master manson and i am that because i initiated to be him with an initiation ritual that is so secret, that no one is going to know it. unless he is a sixty nine degree master manson as well. therefore this is the only hope for you to learn the greatest secret of the universe, but i doubt you can make it. but i am sure that if you try enough, you can make it to be like me one day.

Yes - Oh exalted one - "I greet you from the deeps!"


Documentary Video on the "The Neptunati". (http://www.guba.com/watch/2000909724)

Best line from the video above;
"All right that's it, help yourself to punch and cookies."

Soooo true!