Turning Vegan.. :-S

[h1s_l0rdsh1p]

Ok, this sounds sooooo fuckin' strange coming from my mouth.

Awhile ago I went vegitarian. But it was hard for me. I wanted to cheat sooo fuckin' badly. I mean, I looooooooooove the taste of chicken.. Sounds primitive to me now.

Anyways, now, I'm starting to turn vegan. Mind you, I'm a guy who watched decapitation videos and execution videos and the only thing that bothered me about it, is that it's happening in our world today. The things that humans do to other humans is terrible. But i didn't feel squeamish or anything watching it.

Last weekend though, I saw this video from PETA called "Meet your Meat".

If you like meat, I would say watch it, but then again, I don't think anyone should have to watch such a video. You can probably find it on youtube or whatever. But the fact is, it made me squeamish. It really bothered me!

To the point, I saw how milk cows are treated, and now, I can't even touch milk or cheese without feeling terrible. I can't stand seeing an innocent animal harmed in such a way.

Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

[i am all i am]

G'day H1s L0rdsh1p.

This is neither a good nor bad thing.

It is a responsible thing. You are understanding the consequences that we all face with the actions that we carry out. I would love to have been more aware of this at a younger age. Everything that we purchase is supporting someone, somewhere, doing something. The question is, do we know what they are doing and would we support them if we did know ???

I do not personally consider myself with the label of vegan, or vegetarian (I am soul). The way in which I eat is numbers (chemical) free. I look at the package of the product, if there are any numbers or words on it that I do not understand, I put it back and refuse to consume it, because I love my body and would see it fed healthily. The majority of the food that I consume (approx. 95%) is organic and fresh, unprocessed produce.

Anyway, I've been thinking about starting a thread in the Health area for a similar topic. I will get around to it, but in the mean time I'll post below some links that will be of benefit for you. I haven't sorted any of it in any order yet, so it will require you to look at each site. Their are heaps of great recipes on most of the site, and some absolutely brilliant information concerning how to eat the 'vegan way'.



With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif


http://www.vnv.org.au/FoodDistributors.htm

http://enviro.org.au/organics-directory-australia.asp

http://www.orgran.com/

http://www.veganpet.com.au/content/balanced_diet.php

http://www.truthpublishing.com/Default.asp ***

http://www.newstarget.com/adamshealthstats.html - Health Ranger ***

http://www.notmilk.com/ ***

http://veganmomma.com/blog/?cat=56

http://www.organicconsumers.org/

http://www.madcowboy.com/ ***

http://www.vegansociety.com/html/ U.K

http://www.vegsoc.org.au/ QLD

http://www.worldveganday.org.au/html/2006/

http://vegweb.com/

http://www.veganessentials.com/

http://www.vegsource.com/

http://www.veganhealth.org/

http://www.veganfitness.net/

http://www.vegansociety.com/html/

http://veganradio.com/


http://www.spice-of-life.com/quotes.html
quotes on veg site

"Doctors give drugs of which they know little, into bodies, of which they know less, for
Diseases of which they know nothing at all." Voltaire

"Let food be thy medicine, and let thy medicine be food." Hippocrates

"And we have made of ourselves living cesspools, and driven doctors to invent names for
Our diseases." Plato
"The physician should not treat the disease but the patient who is suffering from it."
Maimonides

"Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come when medicine
Will organize into an undercover dictatorship to restrict the art of healing to one class of
Men and deny equal privileges to others; the Constitution of the Republic should make a
Special privilege for medical freedoms as well as religious freedom." Benjamin Rush, MD.,
a signer of the Declaration of Independence and personal physician to George Washington

"The doctor of the future will no longer treat the human frame with drugs, but rather will
Cure and prevent disease with nutrition." Thomas Edison

"It's supposed to be a secret, but I'll tell you anyway. We doctors do nothing. We only help
And encourage the doctor within." Albert Schweitzer, M.D.

"What is impossible to see from the viewpoint of those who believe in cures is that the very
symptoms the good doctors have suppressed and turned into chronic disease were the
body's only means of correcting the problem! The so-called "disease" was the only "cure"
possible!" Dr. Philip Chapman - 1981

"What makes me so certain that the natural human lifespan is far in excess of the actual one
is this. Among all my autopsies (and I have performed over 1000), I have never seen a
person who died of old age. In fact, I do not think that anyone has ever died of old age yet.
We invariably die because one vital part has worn out too early in proportion to the rest of
the body." Dr. Hans Selye

"The cell is immortal. It is merely the fluid in which it floats that degenerates. Renew this
fluid at regular intervals, give the cells what they require for nutrition, and as far as we
know, the pulsation of life can go on forever." Dr. Alexis Carrell - Nobel prize winner
"The cure of the part should not be attempted without treatment of the whole. No attempt should be made to cure the body without the soul. Let no one persuade you to cure the head until he has first given you his soul to be cured, for this is the great error of our day, that physicians first separate the soul from the body." PLATO

[thewaycreates]

be careful and diligent.

i was vegan for 6 years, and although i dont regret it, because i probably wouldnt be where i am today if i didnt do it, but, from the perspective of health, it was a huge mistake. many injuries and much weakness later im pretty close to a carnivore now.

[ho1ogram]

G'day his lordship,
Is this a good thing or a bad thing? I reckon your the only one who can answer that.. here is my experience...

I grew up on meat and 3 veg, then became vego and then vegan after watching the vids and reading books on the meat and dairy industry. Due to drug abuse and self hate and stuff I became sick and started eating meat again because I couldn't be arsed worrying about the ethics of food when I was trying to heal myself and sort out my problems.

I now live on a few acres and we raised our own calf and had it killed on our property. Watching it die instantly, and I mean instantly, was a beautiful thing. One minute he was peaceful and looking at us, the next 'bang' he was dead. No drama, no pain just 'poof' the life taken from him. We ate a lot of meat... got sick of it.. went back to mostly chicken and now am virtually vegan again.

Going back to eating meat was a natural progression on my part. I forced myself to be vegan when I wasn't ready for it. Then three times in a month I was mistakenly fed meat so I took it as a sign that I should eat it again and I did. It was the best thing ever, for me at that time. Now that I have sorted out my personal crap, eating meat and dairy doesn't appeal to me anymore and I feel great.

The point of all this? Well, for me, I reckon if one listens to their body and not just their mind, one can make up their own dietry rules based on where they are at in their journey. I defo stuck with vegan for too long when my body was crying out for meat... now meat isn't appealing at all.

It is a shocking industry. We have two more calfs now and they have become pets because we're off the meat and because we can't bear to sell them and have them shipped, sold at auction and then shipped again to a slaughter house. We could make a tidy profit by selling them but stuff that.

After reading the 'predator of man' thread I feel like we treat animals the same way the reptilians treat us. The part about 'we raise chickens in chicken coops and they raise us in human coops' (cities and houses) really hit home. I believe what you put out you get back. By raising animals for food we're making a statement to the universe that it is alright to raise creatures for food... so we get raised for food! Etheric energy food! (see predator of man thread)

Anyway this is a long post but I reckon it is a complex issue for each individual. (well for some it is a simple decision). What you eat is such a personal choice. No one should feel guilty for what they choose to eat.

I also reckon genetics play a part too. For instance my ancestors (Irish) I assume lived on a lot of meat, so it has taken a while for me to adapt my body to go without... it's like I needed to change the program using my mind first... and now not eating meat and dairy feels normal.
Cheers, h.

[h1s_l0rdsh1p]

be careful and diligent.

i was vegan for 6 years, and although i dont regret it, because i probably wouldnt be where i am today if i didnt do it, but, from the perspective of health, it was a huge mistake. many injuries and much weakness later im pretty close to a carnivore now.

Weak? Maybe you weren't getting enough protein in your diet?

Or B12? Try having tofu for a change.

[bicycle]

Raw food and clean water is all your body needs.

[h1s_l0rdsh1p]

G'day his lordship,
I reckon your the only one who can answer that.. here is my experience...

I grew up on meat and 3 veg, then became vego and then vegan after watching the vids and reading books on the meat and dairy industry. Due to drug abuse and self hate and stuff I became sick and started eating meat again because I couldn't be arsed worrying about the ethics of food when I was trying to heal myself and sort out my problems.

I now live on a few acres and we raised our own calf and had it killed on our property. Watching it die instantly, and I mean instantly, was a beautiful thing. One minute he was peaceful and looking at us, the next 'bang' he was dead. No drama, no pain just 'poof' the life taken from him. We ate a lot of meat... got sick of it.. went back to mostly chicken and now am virtually vegan again.

Going back to eating meat was a natural progression on my part. I forced myself to be vegan when I wasn't ready for it. Then three times in a month I was mistakenly fed meat so I took it as a sign that I should eat it again and I did. It was the best thing ever, for me at that time. Now that I have sorted out my personal crap, eating meat and dairy doesn't appeal to me anymore and I feel great.

The point of all this? Well, for me, I reckon if one listens to their body and not just their mind, one can make up their own dietry rules based on where they are at in their journey. I defo stuck with vegan for too long when my body was crying out for meat... now meat isn't appealing at all.

It is a shocking industry. We have two more calfs now and they have become pets because we're off the meat and because we can't bear to sell them and have them shipped, sold at auction and then shipped again to a slaughter house. We could make a tidy profit by selling them but stuff that.

After reading the 'predator of man' thread I feel like we treat animals the same way the reptilians treat us. The part about 'we raise chickens in chicken coops and they raise us in human coops' (cities and houses) really hit home. I believe what you put out you get back. By raising animals for food we're making a statement to the universe that it is alright to raise creatures for food... so we get raised for food! Etheric energy food! (see predator of man thread)

Anyway this is a long post but I reckon it is a complex issue for each individual. (well for some it is a simple decision). What you eat is such a personal choice. No one should feel guilty for what they choose to eat.

I also reckon genetics play a part too. For instance my ancestors (Irish) I assume lived on a lot of meat, so it has taken a while for me to adapt my body to go without... it's like I needed to change the program using my mind first... and now not eating meat and dairy feels normal.
Cheers, h.

Great post man. Honestly, seeing that cow must have really bothered you.

I just can't do it. Even eatting cheese bothers me. And that's like, my favorite food, too. But I jsut can't touch the stuff. Lately, I've just been drinking allot of soymilk, water, and 7up. And eatting allot of tofu, fruit, and chips....


Then I ask myself, where does all this butter come from? I need to grow my own food to feel better. :(

[ho1ogram]

Oh yeah, I should add that I eat eggs. Where I live the chooks free range and I say thank you to them for the eggs... hmmm..lol.. okay there is an inconsistency with my 'chicken coop' statements above and the fact that I eat eggs. The chooks here live in houses more than coops.. hmmm.. I'll have to think about this a bit more.

[i am all i am]

The part about 'we raise chickens in chicken coops and they raise us in human coops' (cities and houses) really hit home.

Here's a funny stat that I heard, there are more chickens on the planet than there are people, apparently over 7 billion.



With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[i am all i am]

Great post man. Honestly, seeing that cow must have really bothered you.

I just can't do it. Even eatting cheese bothers me. And that's like, my favorite food, too. But I jsut can't touch the stuff. Lately, I've just been drinking allot of soymilk, water, and 7up. And eatting allot of tofu, fruit, and chips....


Then I ask myself, where does all this butter come from? I need to grow my own food to feel better. :(

If you have a look at these two sites, you will probably never look at meat and dairy as food again.

http://www.notmilk.com/ ***

http://www.madcowboy.com/ ***



With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[ho1ogram]

Honestly, seeing that cow must have really bothered you.
When we killed the calf (well a trained shooter did) it honestly didn't bother me. There was something beautiful about the experience... like his spirit was freed. I was really glad I was there to witness it. It also made me realise that if people eat meat then that is the way to kill the animal. On the property wher it is raised, in the paddock not a pen and with love and peace.. it was a peaceful event. You had to be there to really understand what I am saying.

Eat legumes man. Cheap and full of good stuff. As a supplement I would go for 'super Greens' if you feel you need it. And think healthy. I made the decision to be healthy and I tell myself everyday that I am healthy.

7up's vegan but probably full of sugar. You can get lecithin butter, soya butter, and other butter subs. Here yo can get at least two easily in most super markets. Tahini kicks arse and can be used instead of butter for a lot of things.

[ho1ogram]

Here's a funny stat that I heard, there are more chickens on the planet than there are people, apparently over 7 billion. Well we should free them and join together to kick the Illuminati's arses! Finally we have the numbers! Woo hoo... I'm sure the chooks are fed up with their lives. Chook attack!

[i am all i am]

Eat legumes man. Cheap and full of good stuff. As a supplement I would go for 'super Greens' if you feel you need it. And think healthy. I made the decision to be healthy and I tell myself everyday that I am healthy.

7up's vegan but probably full of sugar. You can get lecithin butter, soya butter, and other butter subs. Here yo can get at least two easily in most super markets. Tahini kicks arse and can be used instead of butter for a lot of things.

There are plenty of 'real' foods, without missing out on anything.

You can get; vegan chocolate; coconut cream and milk; oat, rice, almond milk; cocoa butter; and a lot of other products as well.

You can also substitute avocado or hommus for butter on sandwiches. Nuts are another great source of nutrition that should not be overlooked. If you can get hemp seeds, they contain omega's 3, 6 and 9, and hemp seed oil should be easy to find.

I have lived meat and dairy free for a little over 8 years now and I am physically healthier than I have ever been.



With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[i am all i am]

Well we should free them and join together to kick the Illuminati's arses! Finally we have the numbers! Woo hoo... I'm sure the chooks are fed up with their lives. Chook attack!

Cows With Guns
http://youtube.com/watch?v=a5s5qGg01nE

Check out this song brother. You'll love the part about the chickens in it.



With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[bicycle]

Its easy, think healthy be healthy.

[h1s_l0rdsh1p]

Shit...

I love you guys. Honestly. It's like, no matter where I look, you guys are always gonna have the answers.


I can't eat meat. I'm unhealthy(over-weight for one) and a heavy smoker.

But I really feel better about choosing to be a vegan.

[i am all i am]

Shit...

I love you guys. Honestly. It's like, no matter where I look, you guys are always gonna have the answers.


I can't eat meat. I'm unhealthy(over-weight for one) and a heavy smoker.

But I really feel better about choosing to be a vegan.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9755/sign1jn0.gif http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/342/a1iloveyoumt0.gif http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/3112/sign3od5.gif

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1898/sign4ux0.gif


It's great that you have a positive attitude about it brother, and if there is anything that I can help you with, let me know !!!



With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[ho1ogram]

^^^^^ What he said ^^^^^^^

and... Its easy, think healthy be healthy. ..what he said. :)

Cows With Guns
http://youtube.com/watch?v=a5s5qGg01nE

Check out this song brother. You'll love the part about the chickens in it.
Yeah, iv'e heard that, it's a crack up! :D

[i am all i am]

^^^^^ What he said ^^^^^^^

and... ..what he said. :)

Cows With Guns
http://youtube.com/watch?v=a5s5qGg01nE

Yeah, iv'e heard that, it's a crack up! :D

Chickens in choppers !!! http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/2/3D_emoticon_40.gif



With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[bigus_dickus]

strange thing (synchronicity).. i was thinking about food and eating last night.

and i came up with this thought: "why do we have to eat? will we always have to eat something? will we always be in trouble trying to discover the best food for us? why does everything in nature eats something else? even rocks do. why do living beings have to consume living beings in order to keep living. what if i decided, by identifying myself with forms of life, animals, plants and everything, that i don't want to eat anymore and inflict pain and momentary suffering to other living beings? would it be a good decision to refrain from all food and die from hunger?"

these are troubling and sentimental thoughts that come from a sentimental point of view. but i would not stop there.

continuing the above "thread", i observed that all life needs to consume other life in order to sustain its existence in the 3D 'relative' realm. we, as many other animals on this planet, are predators. we really are. not only we hunt animals for food, clothes, medicine, cosmetics, even fun, we also use every other possible resource we can get including plants, water, air, earth. i mean, we cut a huge amount of trees just to get paper and thus we kill millions of organisms in the process and of course the brilliant 'majestic' life of the tree.

we fail to recognize that we also communicate with the plants in unimaginable ways. we have no idea that they can hear and understand us even better than animals and we kill and eat them without second thought. we have a false perception of 'life' and 'death' to begin with.

for example, the idea that an organism continues to live after we killed it is extreme, but why? when we kill an animal, it's central system stops to work. but the totality of life contained in it, continues to live, but having no central governing system, it has no more direction, no more 'orders', so it is left to decay and be consumed by other life and thus be adopted by the environment and continue its journey.

the idea that we eat "dead" therefore we die, i think it is a misconception. because death is a big illusion. all the proteins and the vitamins and the nutrients contained in any kind of food, is life in person, suitable to be converted to energy by our own living system. if it wasn't life, we would be better off eating dirt and not feel guilty about eating at all, because dirt to us is dead as dead can get, because it doesn't behave like a creature.

even our waste and the waste of animals are used by the plants as their food. and we use the waste of the plants as our food. we would not be able to live if we didn't have that waste exchange.
now, thinking about waste, if every human and carnivore animal, changed to vegetarian, then that waste would have different properties and i don't know how the plants would feel about that.

it gets better... why we feel like that (guilty) about animals, is a tricky subject. it is because of our ability to put our selves in their position and feel compassion for them, which is a 'human' thing to do. but why?

well... that's because of the 'meat' industries. they treat animals as if they were dead all the time. we, as human beings don't, but the corporations have no such issues. the corporations have no respect of any form of life, be it animal or human. if they could, they would even breed humans for food, if this would make them more profit.
so, this becomes, the 'wrong way to eat'. because when you put your food on the table, you don't appreciate it for what it is. if it was an animal of your garden, you would have taken its life with love and you would have a totally different connection with it. you would thank the animal and the tree and the vegetable with all of your heart for giving its life to you and you would not think "poor little animal.. how am i going to eat this now".

if you were in a jungle and a jaguar attacked you, would you hate the jaguar? if you would, do you hate the jaguar right now?

however it's your own personal choice. just make sure it is for the right reasons. i don't really know if it is better to be a veggie or worse. ancient greeks used to say "all moderation is excellence", which means that excellence comes from balance and not from extremes.

and also "healthy mind, in (or 'one with') healthy body". which means that health comes first from the mind. and health means "to have a perfect body, mental and psyche condition, to be strong".

thought for food :)

[lottie]

i watched the first 3 seconds of meet your meat and then decided to become veggie even though i hadnt watched it- i decided i know full well what happens to animals and the poor treatment of them and the inhumane way they are made to live their lives and decided i was actually being extremely ignorant by just ignoring this fact and eating meat so i decided to do it anyway- i dont miss meat but i do find its hard to change the programming- last night i made a curry for me and the OH and made his with chicken and mine with Quorn meat and to be honest mine tasted bland and his smelt rich and mouthwatering with much more flavour (from the meat) and i thought im not gonna give in- just gotta ride with it- i must say that substitute meat aint much cop- i'd rather just have a vegetable curry instead of substituting. I also learned a lot about what avatar was saying about veganism- i still dont understand why he feels that ethical vegetarianism is wrong/hypocritical but i'd sure like to learn more- i just cant see me going vegan as i dont see the problem in eating produce from an animal that means it hasnt had to suffer in order for me to eat it- such as eggs and milk- i mean feel free to enlighten me- im open to suggestions i just dont know how far to take this!! but then turning it all on its head- its all holographic food, in my holographic tummy- so does it all really matter too much?!!

[i am all i am]

i watched the first 3 seconds of meet your meat and then decided to become veggie even though i hadnt watched it- i decided i know full well what happens to animals and the poor treatment of them and the inhumane way they are made to live their lives and decided i was actually being extremely ignorant by just ignoring this fact and eating meat so i decided to do it anyway- i dont miss meat but i do find its hard to change the programming- last night i made a curry for me and the OH and made his with chicken and mine with Quorn meat and to be honest mine tasted bland and his smelt rich and mouthwatering with much more flavour (from the meat) and i thought im not gonna give in- just gotta ride with it- i must say that substitute meat aint much cop- i'd rather just have a vegetable curry instead of substituting. I also learned a lot about what avatar was saying about veganism- i still dont understand why he feels that ethical vegetarianism is wrong/hypocritical but i'd sure like to learn more- i just cant see me going vegan as i dont see the problem in eating produce from an animal that means it hasnt had to suffer in order for me to eat it- such as eggs and milk- i mean feel free to enlighten me- im open to suggestions i just dont know how far to take this!! but then turning it all on its head- its all holographic food, in my holographic tummy- so does it all really matter too much?!!

G'day Lottie.

Here's a great site for you to understand all about milk...

http://www.notmilk.com/ ***



With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[lightbeing]

i watched the first 3 seconds of meet your meat and then decided to become veggie even though i hadnt watched it- i decided i know full well what happens to animals and the poor treatment of them and the inhumane way they are made to live their lives and decided i was actually being extremely ignorant by just ignoring this fact and eating meat so i decided to do it anyway- i dont miss meat but i do find its hard to change the programming- last night i made a curry for me and the OH and made his with chicken and mine with Quorn meat and to be honest mine tasted bland and his smelt rich and mouthwatering with much more flavour (from the meat) and i thought im not gonna give in- just gotta ride with it- i must say that substitute meat aint much cop- i'd rather just have a vegetable curry instead of substituting. I also learned a lot about what avatar was saying about veganism- i still dont understand why he feels that ethical vegetarianism is wrong/hypocritical but i'd sure like to learn more- i just cant see me going vegan as i dont see the problem in eating produce from an animal that means it hasnt had to suffer in order for me to eat it- such as eggs and milk- i mean feel free to enlighten me- im open to suggestions i just dont know how far to take this!! but then turning it all on its head- its all holographic food, in my holographic tummy- so does it all really matter too much?!!


Hi lottie,

I could do with a nice Chicken curry, you can make one for me anytime!;) :)

[auron]

The way in which I eat is numbers (chemical) free. I look at the package of the product, if there are any numbers or words on it that I do not understand, I put it back and refuse to consume it, because I love my body and would see it fed healthily. The majority of the food that I consume (approx. 95%) is organic and fresh, unprocessed produce.


That's the best advice I've heard in a long time!

[seanx]

When we killed the calf (well a trained shooter did) it honestly didn't bother me. There was something beautiful about the experience... like his spirit was freed. I was really glad I was there to witness it. It also made me realise that if people eat meat then that is the way to kill the animal. On the property wher it is raised, in the paddock not a pen and with love and peace.. it was a peaceful event. You had to be there to really understand what I am saying.

I don't thinking eating meat per se is bad for you ( although I
suppose a raw diet of the best seeds, sprouts, nuts, veg and fruit
would be the optimium diet) but it is the nature of the meat.

If you have a fright or feel terrified, it automatically releases
corresponding chemicals in your body. The 'meat' of your body
literally becomes saturated with these life-destroying chemicals.

Now if you consider the horrendous, totally INHUMAN way the
cattle and chickens are raised and destroyed - you can only
imagine the kind of chemicals these poor frightened creatures
release into their blood stream.

And this is the kind of meat we are eating.

The meat itself in not bad, in my opinion ( our bodies will all
be food for other creatures soon, too ) but the nature of the meat.

And in a funny way, the animals will have the last laugh. This
'infected' meat, born of their pain is probably the cause of
the huge rise in cancers etc all over the world.

Our ignorance for cheap prices will come back to haunt us.

And that why ho1ogram'a calf was so peaceful dying peacefully.
He knew he had a good, loving environment and was one of the lucky
ones

[awakensong]

This can be a very touchy, emotional and passionate subject. I would just like to share what I've learned, tried and experienced about this.

I've seen the videos and even watched interviews on TV and listened on the radio to Howard Lyman (The "Mad Cowboy"), a former rancher now vegetarian, and yes, it is gruesome what these animals are put through. However, if one of the reasons to give up eating meat is to help protect animals, then vegetarians have something to think about also. Many thousands of field animals are killed for agricultural purposes. The combines, plowing and harvesting machines just grind them right up to get them out of the way.

I am on my third try in 25 years to become Fruitarian -- the original food of man. I am in no way a bible person, but there is that story that seed-bearing fruit and seed-bearing herbs were given to man for his "meat". Also, the other green plants and herbs were given to animals for 'their' "meat". How everyone became carnivorous is quite a deal.

Anyway, fruit is the only thing not killed nor stolen, and it also replicates itself. It is freely offered to us by nature. If we only ate fruit we would exhale and exude fragrance. There would be no need for deodorants, mouthwash, etc.

One very extremely important caution is that a Transition Diet must be followed very carefully, along with careful short fasts, in order to rid the system of the constitutional encumbrances of the former "SAD" (Standard American Diet -- or "British", too) before fruit can properly nourish the body. Fruit is a great loosener and eliminator of toxic waste, and going too quickly with it can harm and even kill people; they literally die in their own 'filth'. Those who do not die, lose all faith forever in the goodness of fruit because of what they went through incorrectly.

I have mainly been following the dietetic teachings of Arnold Ehret who vigorously proved this diet and broke the fasting record in his day, going 49 days, which he undertook with medical observation so they could see he wasn't cheating. He loudly proclaims that not a single iota of any food outside of the fruit or vegetable kingdom can be digested or assimilated by the human body. He recommends, after the long transition diet, fruit and starchless green-leafy vegetables, with a few nuts and seeds, which are considered "dry" fruit. Some food is raw, some is cooked, at least at first.

Dr. Herbert Shelton, a Natural Hygienist, considered this more idealistic than realistic and modified it to include 'minimal amounts' of fish, dairy or eggs in order not to become deficient in B12 -- that is the biggest drawback of either a fruitarian or vegetarian diet; B12 is ONLY found in animal products. However, Professor Ehret claimed he could get every nutrient needed from sunbathing, and he was ruddy-complected from all the time he spent in the sun. He cured himself of Bright's Disease and a heart problem, after all the doctors had only made him worse.

Back to what is considered a "stolen" food. If anyone includes moral, philosophical and ethical reasons in their eating, then things like honey, milk, eggs, caviar, etc. are considered "stolen". Not only that, but the cows, chickens, bees and fish which are "farmed" are abused and exploited in order to force them to mass-produce large quantities of these things for human consumption. Cows must be forced to continue producing milk after their young ones are weaned, which isn't even allowed to happen naturally anymore. Bees do not just produce honey and then leave and fly away. The honey is for their own use and gets replaced by beekeepers with cheap sugar. Also, the trap doors on flower beds used for collecting the pollen when the bee flies up through it, in many cases pulls the bees' legs off.

I personally see NOTHING 'beautiful' about killing an animal, even if it is considered "instant" and "painless". I wouldn't think that about watching a member of my own family or one of my own friends or even a fellow human being be shot, so I don't think that about animals, either.

I think it was Stuart Wilde, but it may have been John Kaminski, who has written an article about whether cows, chickens and pigs are waiting to get revenge on us. He says probably not, but it's something to think about. What if the revenge is to reincarnate as one of them, and be killed or exploited for food?

If we just lived as Nature intends, it would help bring peace on Earth, and this most definitely includes our food choices.

[i am all i am]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1851&highlight=MARIJUANA+FaCTS

HEMPSEED NUTRITION

Cannabis hempseeds contain all the essential amino acids and essential fatty acids necessary to maintain healthy human life. No other single plant source provides complete protein in such an easily digestible form, nor has the oils essential to life in as perfect a ratio for human health and vitality.

Hempseed is the highest of any plant in essential fatty acids. Hempseed oil is among the lowest in saturated fats at 8% of total oil volume. The oil pressed from hempseed contains 55% linoleic acid (LA) and 25% llinolenic acid (LNA). Only flax oil has more linolenic acid at 58%, but hempseed oil is the highest in total essential fatty acids at 80% of total oil volume.

"These essential fatty acids are responsible for our immune response. In the old country the peasants ate hemp butter. They were more resistant to disease than the nobility." The higher classes wouldn't eat hemp because the poor ate it. - R. Hamilton, ED.D., Ph.D. Medical Researcher-Bichemist U.C.L.A. Emeritus.

LA and LNA are involved in producing life energy from food and the movement of that energy throughout the body.

Essential fatty acids govern growth, vitality and state of mind. LA and LNA are involved in transferring oxygen from the air in the lungs to every cell in the body. They play a part in holding oxygen in the cell membrane where it acts as a barrier to invading viruses and bacteria, neither of which thrive in the presence of oxygen.

The bent shape of the essential fatty acids keep them from dissolving into each other. They are slippery and will not clog arteries like the sticky straight-shaped saturated fats and the trans-fatty acids in cooking oils and shortenings that are made by subjecting polyunsaturated oils like LA and LNA to high temperatures during the refining process.

LA and LNA possess a slightly negative charge and have a tendency to form very thin surface layers. This property is called surface activity, and it provides the power to carry substances like toxins to the surface of the skin, intestinal tract, kidneys and lungs where they can be removed. Their very sensitivity causes them to break down rapidly into toxic compounds when refined with high heat or improper storage exposes them to light or air.

Nature provides seeds with an outer shell that safely protects the vital oils and vitamins within from spoilage.

It's a perfect as well as perfectly edible container. Hempseed can be ground into a paste similar to peanut butter only more delicate in flavor. Udo Erasmus, Ph.D. nutritionist says: "Hemp butter puts our peanut butter to shame for nutritiounal value." The ground seeds can be baked into breads, cakes and casseroles. Hempseed makes a hearty addition to granola bars.

Pioneers in the fields of biochemistry and human nutrition now believe cardiovascular disease (CVD) and most cancers are really diseases of fatty degeneration caused by the continued over-consumption of saturated fats and refined vegetable oils that turn essential fatty acids into carcinogenic killers. One out of two Americans will die from the effects of CVD. One out of four Americans will die from cancer. Researchers believe cancers erupt when immune system response is weakened. And more Americans are succumbing to immune deficiency diseases than ever before. Promising studies are now under way using the essential oils to support the immune systems of HIV virus patients.

The complete protein in hempseed gives the body all the essential amino acids required to maintain health, and provides the necessary kinds and amounts of amino acids the body needs to make human serum albumin and serum globulins like the immune enhancing gamma globulin antibodies.

The body's ability to resist and recover from illness depends upon how rapidly it can produce massive amounts of antibodies to fend off the initial attack. If the globulin protein starting material is in short supply, the army of antibodies may be too small to prevent the symptoms of sickness from setting in.

The best way to insure the body has enough amino acid material to make the globulins is to eat foods high in globulin proteins. Hempseed protein is 65% globulin edestin plus quantities of albumin (present in all seeds) so its easily digestible proteen is readily available in a form quite similar to that found in blood plasma.

Hempseed was used to treat nutritional deficiencies brought on by tuberculosis, a severe nutrition blocking disease that causes the body to waste away. (Czechoslovakia Tubercular Nutritional Study, 1955.)

The energy of life is in the whole seed. Hempseed foods taste great!

They will insure we get enough essential amino acids and essential fatty acids, to build strong bodies and immune systems, and to maintain health and vitality. Please copy. Excerpted from Hempseed Nutrition by Lynn Osburn. Produced by Access Unlimited, P.O. Box 1900, Frazier Park, CA 93225.

http://www.jackherer.com/chapter07.html



With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[ho1ogram]

G'day awakensong.
We did take the life of our calf and the word beautiful isn't quite the appropriate word. I will say though that I am thankful for the experience. It was like I actually saw or felt his spirit's release from physical bondage. It was proof to me that when I die it is just my physical body that dies and a part of me will definitely live on. It's hard to explain but I have never seen a human or animal die like that. I'm tempted to say the experience was a gift except that he had no say in the matter.

Re the bees; I had never heard of them getting their legs cut off before. We have four hives here but we don't collect their pollen and they're left with plenty of honey all year round, that's the key to strong and healthy hives.

I'm interested to hear how the fruit diet goes. I have one freind who tried it years ago. I don't know how long he kept at it, it didn't really work for him. I think one reason why was because he was a prety angry man, lots of repressed emotion. He couldn't seem to reconcile his anger at the world with his choice to live a life free of contributing to the death of any living animal. His emotions and state of mind outweighed the benefits of his diet.

[ho1ogram]

This is some cool info about B12...

My Cows are smarter than Scientists!
So now, my Vitamin B-12 metabolism wiser friends:
How can you best obtain a natural - antigen and disease free - source of Vitamin B-12?
(Not the Commercially provided, animal liver, animal tissues, slaughterhouse blood and trimmings waste,
feces or sewage harvested supplements!)
Everywhere in the Garden!!!
However, since B-12 producing Cyanocobalamin bacteria love light and air, and they flourish on the surfaces of all plant matter, the more surface of a plant food you can consume, the more B-12 you will obtain. In scientific terms: the higher the surface ratio to consumed end-product volume, the higher the Vitamin B-12.
That means that the greens, that generally grow with large surface areas in relation to weight of consumed product, will carry in the most B-12.

Items that can provide excellent boost to your B-12 stores are juiced greens, with the highest surface to volume ratio. So the richest supplies of B-12 generally is in the grasses: wheat grass juice or Barley grass juice or other juicable grasses, then parsley, or similar thin leafed greens (or finely flowered greens like broccoli) - which concentrate even more available B-12 by juicing!

-- Remember that the favored food of my old cows is the grasses and any leafy silage -- 800 pounds of it to make 1 pound of finished cow! -- That's why my dumb colleagues think nature's supply is those animals! -- They don't understand or haven't figured how the cow truly came by so much vitamin B-12. -- So it is obvious that sometimes those "highly educated" "scientific" wives-tail finding (and actually self believing) human scientist fellows are not as smart as they think themselves to be! -- Sorry but my old cows are smarter! -- My old cows eat grass -- not another cow, some other critter, some liver, slaugtherhouse wastes or sewage to get their Vitamin B-12!!!

Also Cyanocobalamin bacteria (like my old cows) do well on the soil-oxygen supplied surfaces of tubers (potatoes, carrots, beets, etc.) - so the skins and sub skins are a good supply of B-12 and should not be discarded where possible. (My old cows love those tuber's skins.)

Also Cyanocobalamin bacteria do well on fomenting vegetation or on saprophytes, like yeast! Both are excellent in nutrients and rich with B-12! (Cows love them too!)

Also like all micro-biota, Cyanocobalamin bacteria are impaired or killed by pesticides, so you should try to choose organic or pesticide free produced foods wherever possible. But if organic is not available, at least consume plenty of greens. (You can spout and grow your own grasses or greens at home even on a window sill and the wind blown air-carried Cyanocobalamin bacteria will land and multiply on them.)

Important Note:
Carbon Monoxide inhibits uptake of B-12 by preventing binding chemistry to complete!

Just so you are clear on bacteria (and not fearful of all):
Two classes of bacteria exist:
Animal bacterial pathogens (and symbiotes) -- the ones that can cause disease in you and in the animals -- are darkness requiring (light and cosmic energy sensitive) and do not tolerate much "free" oxygen, if any at all (anaerobic). They do not survive well or for very long (only minutes) outside the protective and nutrient provident animal's (or human's) tissues and fluids (blood, eggs, lymphus, milk).

Plant pathogens and flora-symbiotic bacteria, all the "Cyano" bacteria, which includes the Vitamin B-12 producing Cyanocobalamin Bacteria; on the other hand, prefer light and require abundant free oxygen (aerobic) -- so they cannot survive in you or in any animal and cannot cause you or any animal disease. But they "happily" live everywhere else in the environment, even blowing in the wind as they are whisped from (and to) the leaves and surfaces of every tree and foliage on the Planet. It is their metabolic end-product (waste) which is consumed, collected and conservatively used by my old cows and by your body as Vitamin B-12.

Thanks to the plants and their special symbiotic kind-to-plant kind-to-animal kind-to-humanity bacteria!
We should learn some divine good from then both! -- Let Live! Then We Can Live!

http://www.lifesave.org/VitaminB12Continued.htm

So you've been told your low in B12?.....

God and nature has made no mistakes in providing sufficient Vitamin B12 to billions of herbivorous animals over millions of millennia - including the vegetarian primates (our biologically nearest creational equivalents) and man! -- if he (man) makes the right dietary choices and nourishes himself the way he was originally designed! -- That is: In and from the garden! -- the perfect home of pure, uncontaminated, light, oxygen and vegetation loving Cyanocobalamin, in correct bounty, in low concentrations, but sufficient for our needs!-- Not extorted from defiled, destroyed, killed, disease hosting, disease transmitting and B12 hyper-concentrating animals -- especially carnivorous animals (as poultry, pork, fish, etc.), which accumulate and concentrate even more B12 in their tissue, fluids and ova at levels above and higher than the herbivorous animals and/or the insects which they consume. Hence carnivores (including man when he chooses to be such) do ultra-concentrate B12 in their tissues!

Hence in carnivorous man, a falsely high mean standard of B12 levels is accumulated and is consequently measured high in phlebotomy data; so it is accepted as the human norm! -- Not good or honest science!!!

And that false high standard (as has been accepted by most all of medicine) precipitates wrong diagnosis! that is, lower test values of accumulatedserum*** B12 levels -- which are naturally (and correctly) less in non-carnivorous (vegetarian) humans and their dependent nursing infants! Those presumed "deficient" patients are then endangered with the unnecessary administrations of (the sewage and/or animal harvested and unnaturally formulated) B12 injections and/or tablets, with their plethora of contraindications (side affects) possible in many recipient patients or wrongly treated victims!

*** serum (blood stream) levels of B12 is not always a good indication of true internal, intra-/inter-cellular, metabolic, B12 functional levels. It is also (now) known that the cells are ultra conservative with B12; i.e. keeping appropriate stores of it within the cells themselves, recycling it within the intra-cellular (inside) chemistry and allowing only that which is absolutely necessary in inter-cellular (between cells) chemistry to be exported, hence not requiring (as was previously presumed) high levels of B12 to be carried in consumption, digestion, absorption and blood flow to replenish it. -- tlr 7/3/03

Standard medicine has seriously erred in the violation of honored Koch postulates and true scientific method, by producing unnatural high average blood level standards for B12, and assuming them as the correct human mean or standard -- based upon hematological data accumulated and calculated in the cross-section of primarily heavily carnivorous USA/Industrial world humans! -- not a true or honest measure for serum B12 levels for all of humanity, nor for creation's biologically intended, apparent and correct human nutrition, chemistry and physiology!


The original concern over Vitamin B12 deficiency (based on research started more than three quarters of a century ago and completed over a half century ago) was a perceived relationship in poor health conditions called "pernicious anima" (and other closely related neurological and physiological malfunctions). It now has been established that the true cause of this group of maladies is a failure in the bodies own ability to produce its own correct "intrinsic factor", a compound associated with B12's intra/intercellular transport and use -- which is ill-formed in a hydrochloric acid and a bile abused (a condition specifically triggered by the corrosive digestion requirements for complex, high molecular weight, dense animal fats and proteins within a) malnourished, malfunctioning, or chemically damaged (or more rarely, genetically flawed) intestinal tract -- rather than the old belief that the cause was (as presumed) a Vitamin B12 intake or (a test determined*) serum level deficiency!
*Remember, these test protocols and standards were determined over a half century year ago, and also were based on generally highly carnivorous, western human models.

-- This error in perception, diagnoses and treatment does persist, even to date among too many non-current or incompletely educated health practitioners, their older peers, administrations and dependent government health and welfare agencies!
http://www.lifesave.org/VitaminB12.htm

[i am all i am]

Thank you for the information Ho1ogram, you are a legend !!!



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[ho1ogram]

No worries http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/6962/thumbs20upoe4.gif I got it from one of the links you posted above, the notmilk one.http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S127.gif

I've had B12 shots before because I was told I needed them... I decided I didn't need them, the body can look after itself... and I felt a lot bettrer straight away. Now, after reading that info this morning, I can see why... COS THE OFFICIAL OPINION ON B12 IS BOGUS!!!! Why aren't I surprised?

Good links man...http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/2/3D_emoticon_245.gif

[i am all i am]

No worries http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/6962/thumbs20upoe4.gif I got it from one of the links you posted above, the notmilk one.http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S127.gif

I've had B12 shots before because I was told I needed them... I decided I didn't need them, the body can look after itself... and I felt a lot bettrer straight away. Now, after reading that info this morning, I can see why... COS THE OFFICIAL OPINION ON B12 IS BOGUS!!!! Why aren't I surprised?

Good links man...http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/2/3D_emoticon_245.gif

Yeah, no surprise here.

I had heard that there are trace elements of B12 in unwashed mushrooms. Another reason to go the shroom's...hehehe.

NOTMILK has got soooo much info on the site.


http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[thewaycreates]

Weak? Maybe you weren't getting enough protein in your diet?

Or B12? Try having tofu for a change.

what do you mean "for a change"?

i had tons of tofu, and was supplumenting with alot of soy and rice protein......and supplementing with B12.

but i wasnt getting enough (of the right) protein or B12.

good luck.