Prozac not as good as St Johns Wart

[amandaooo]

It was just reported on "five news". Apparantly, St Johns Wart has fewer side effects too. No way!!! Gosh what a shocker ;)

Another source:

http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5gOl3aNh6TeTsYlwZmOdSh8OQK7sA

[stelios]

St John's Wort is almost as bad.
Avoid both.

[madman]

St John's Wort is almost as bad.
Avoid both.

What evidence do you have to back that up?

I've tried a couple of man made chemical anti depressants and felt like shit but I always feel great when I take St JW and notice no side effects.

[steevo]

Do not take prozac or st johns wart - they are dangerous

[steevo]

Prozac/Paxil Facts
© 2001 - 2003 PFPC

June 19th, 2003: FDA to review reports of a possible increased risk of suicidal thinking and suicide attempts in children and adolescents under the age of 18 treated with Paxil. Reports of studies showing that Paxil is no more effective than placebo in children.

June 10, 2003: UK Department of Health recommends that Paxil (Seroxat in Europe) should not be used in children under the age of 18 due to safety concerns of increased self-harm in children taking that medication.


Prozac is a fluorinated drug called "fluoxetine".

Paxil is a fluorinated drug called "paroxetine" (also called Seroxat, Aropax). These drugs are designed to inhibit the reuptake of serotonin (serotonin reuptake inhibitors - SSRIs) and hence interfere with the biological actions of serotonin, a neurotransmitter.

Both drugs contain fluorine and chloride. Fluoride is present as a '4-fluorophenyl' compound, part of the 'active' ingredient.


http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/2003-08-Prozac-Paxil-Fluorophenyl.htm (http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/2003-08-Prozac-Paxil-Fluorophenyl.htm)

[steevo]

I have witnessed first hand the dangers of St Johns Wort. It appeared to give my neighbour a chemical labotamy.

[krakhead]

I think it would depend on the severity of the depression.

There have been studies showing SJW to be quite in-effective against major depression

[diamond dogs]

My interpretation of this is that they are going to introduce measures to restrict St Johns Wart or similar herbal remedies (can be extracted from the common Hypericum Perforatum) to justify and get the public acknowledgement of the draconian Codex Alimentarius legislation.. So we make it ourselves :D
http://www.knowledgerush.com/wiki_image/e/ed/Hypericum_perforatum.jpg

If I had to choose, I would certainly take the St John's Wort as Icke acknowledges that Eli Lilly (major Republcan donors) and Big Links to the Bush family are manufacturers of Prozac...One Major Reason to get off the stuff!!!!!!!!!

[steevo]

I think it would depend on the severity of the depression.

There have been studies showing SJW to be quite in-effective against major depression

But like I say the side effects are terrible. But if it STOPS you committing suicide then maybe it's ok for a VERY short period.

My neighbour was on it for 1 month and you could see the change it had on him. the first two weeks he was more happier than I had seen him for AGES but after that....it was like a chemical labotomy and he said that after the first 2 weeks the pills didnt give him the "high" anymore and then the side effects kicked in. He can't think straight anymore.

[krakhead]

But like I say the side effects are terrible. But if it STOPS you committing suicide then maybe it's ok for a VERY short period.

My neighbour was on it for 1 month and you could see the change it had on him. the first two weeks he was more happier than I had seen him for AGES but after that....it was like a chemical labotomy and he said that after the first 2 weeks the pills didnt give him the "high" anymore and then the side effects kicked in. He can't think straight anymore.

I'm really sorry to hear that Steevo. Are you sure there weren't other reasons other than the SJW? Was his dose correct? Also, in my experience, SJW takes a while to 'kick in', maybe your friends initial 'high' was a placebo-like effect which masked more severe depressive symptoms for a short while?

I know loads of people who take SJW - especially in Winter to help stave off Seasonal Affective Disorder symptoms.

I'm in no way denying what happened to your friend, but I have never heard of such a severe reaction! I'll see if I can find any info on other reactions such as this.

I recommend SJW regularly you see, I'd hate for anyone to suffer like that!

[steevo]

I'm really sorry to hear that Steevo. Are you sure there weren't other reasons other than the SJW? Was his dose correct? Also, in my experience, SJW takes a while to 'kick in', maybe your friends initial 'high' was a placebo-like effect which masked more severe depressive symptoms for a short while?

I know loads of people who take SJW - especially in Winter to help stave off Seasonal Affective Disorder symptoms.

I'm in no way denying what happened to your friend, but I have never heard of such a severe reaction! I'll see if I can find any info on other reactions such as this.

I recommend SJW regularly you see, I'd hate for anyone to suffer like that!

I am certain on this (or as certain as I could possibily be :confused:). He doesnt do drugs or anything and was on no other medication. He said it work fantastic AT FIRST, he said that his brain felt numb in a good way and he was very relaxed and able to converse with people easier. But after two weeks the effects TOTALLY wore off and he kept taking them for another 2 weeks in the hope that they have an effect. He didnt seem all there anymore and would just stare into space and was not able to concentrate anymore. He said he would start reading stuff and then just end up staring at the page like he was a zombie or something. Dont get me wrong, he still leads a totally normal life but he says that since the SJW he is unable to THINK properly, as if a part of his brain has shut down. He appears totally normal now but he still says that the SJW is still effecting his ability to do any complicated thinking. But anyway, it really is up to the individual what they take. I am not a doctor but I will tell people what I know and we all have to make our own choices. Like you said Krakhead, some people swear by SJW.

[twistedconcept]

Prozac was horrible for me. I was on it intermittently for 2.5 years. I suffered from severe depression (it runs in my family; suicide, anti-depressants, etc.), so my psychiatrist decided to put me on it when I was 15. My depression became worse and he increased the dosage to 60mg (3 pills a day) from 20mg (1 pill a day). I would self-harm more and became even more depressed. After a while, I decided to stop taking them. I've improved dramatically.

Some of my family members seem to think it's a wonder drug and claim that it's been extremely beneficial for them.

[stelios]

What evidence do you have to back that up?

I've tried a couple of man made chemical anti depressants and felt like shit but I always feel great when I take St JW and notice no side effects.

The trouble started taking st johns and within a few days it really drove her insane.
It works in avery similar way to prozac in that it removes inhibitions and makes the user more inclined to carry out actions that normal people wouldnt.
She ended up stabbing me with a kitchen knife, although it wasnt too deep.
St Johns makes an otherwise normal person wild with rage.
In the same way that prozac has made people into killers it removes our brains normal blocks that prevent us going OTT.

When she stopped taking st johns everything went back to normal.
Even the ambulance lady said she had heard st johns was known to make people behave uncontrollably. If you are depressed get some sunshine, eat healthy, get some exercise, or if you really need something then lithium carbonate is probably the one to use.

http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Lithium
How does Lithium work?
Lithium is a trace element that may help preserve and renew brain cells. By promoting the regeneration of brain cells, lithium is seen to be an effective anti-aging nutrient for the brain. It also increases the production of a major brain-protective protein called “bcl-2” in these cells. Lithium helps protect brain cells against potential damage caused by toxic molecules, sometimes called “excitotoxins,” that naturally form during the course of brain metabolism.

Signaling is the communication between brain cells and networks of the brain. Lithium contributes to at least two signal-carrying pathways. In addition, it may also help repair signaling pathways found to be signaling abnormally.

N-acetyl-aspartate (NAA) is a brain molecule that is considered a marker for the viability and healthy function of brain cells. A decrease in NAA is thought to signal deceased nerve cell viability, decreased function and even possible nerve cell loss. Lithium helps support the increase of NAA in the brain. In addition, lithium promotes brain health by helping to inhibit over-activated N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptors, which may lead to the impairment of brain cells. Lithium also supports memory and its properties help reduce areas of cell death in the brain.

[simplify]

Wow.....I'm so surprised to hear of nasty side effects from SJW. I take this myself during the dark winter months. have done for years, & recommend it to anyone, who is experiencing mild depression. I take it in a liquid form & no side effects. Steevo & others here.....did you say your neighbor took "take pills"? Perhaps if it is sold in a pill form in England, their may be other substances that are causing such effects. Do you know who the manufacturing company is? I hope TPTB are not putting something sinister in SJW to try and stop people using it. (sorry my suspicious mind)

[cafe beelzebub]

I've taken st johns wort in pill form a few times for very short periods in last few years for depression, it works great.

never experienced any side effects.

it doesn't give you 'a high' as somebody said, if you are having consitantly negetive, dark, depressive moods and thoughts which you are struggling to aleviate, i have found that over a number of days of taking st johns wort, these thoughts and moods are lifted and reversed, and you are able to feel normal, good, positive, it's not a fake mood boost, it just stops your mind being consistantly negetive.

I only ever take st johns wort for short periods... 1 - 4 weeks in times that i experience a strongish depression, i may feel a bit down for a few days, but i can usually work through this if its mild, but when it's a little deeper, i find st johns work works really well to balance things out.

why have the 'scare' stories on this thread come from people who haven't actually taken st johns wort personally?

[newdecades]

I had a bad reaction to st. johns wort. I've been on and off anti-depressants for about 8 years now and haven't had any problems. They've actually helped me. I don't plan on staying on them though. I think it all depends on the person, people react differently to different drugs.

[steevo]

These drugs are all PRODUCED BY EVIL BASTARDS I reckon, so dont use them. But it's up to YOU.
Simplify, the SJW that my neighbour took were tablets.

[bob_jones]

Drug Company targets US state health officials
Washington Ray Moynihan
A major pharmaceutical company has sought to influence state government officials with trips, perks, lavish meals, and other payments, says an investigator from the Pennsylvania Office of Inspector General.
Investigator Allen Jones told the BMJ earlier this week that he had discovered that the drug company Janssen was sponsoring educational events for state employees, funding individuals travel arrangements, and paying honorariums of up to $2000 (£1100; €1610) each to key officials who held influence over the drugs prescribed in state-run prisons and mental hospitals.
Yet as his investigations widened, Mr Jones was dropped from the case and told by a manager that "drug companies write cheques to politicians" on both sides of politics. Mr Jones subsequently started legal action, accusing his employer of trying to bury important evidence of wrongdoing. Although no formal report has been released, many of his findings were reported in the New York Times last Sunday (p BU1).
Janssen is the subsidiary of healthcare giant Johnson & Johnson that markets risperidone, the atypical antipsychotic medication widely used in the treatment of schizophrenia.
Along with other drug companies that make new antipsychotics, in the late 1990s Janssen funded the development of state based guidelines for the treatment of schizophrenia, heavily favouring the newer more expensive medications over older cheaper ones. The guidelines, initiated first in the Texas prison and psychiatric systems,[The T-map programme a guide that causes more profitable A-typical anti-psychotics to be prescribed in the place of cheaper older ones. A-typicals kill 1 in 400 victims of psychiatry; even more than the old neuroleptics and the side-effects are just as bad;- tardative dyscinisia, parkinsonism, akasthasia, death, etc:- Bob Jones] are currently being adopted in other states, including Pennsylvania.
A spokesman for Janssen, Doug Arbesfeld, confirmed to the BMJ that the company had made payments to state officials and helped to sponsor the guidelines, but he flatly rejected claims that the company was seeking influence. "We provided funding to the Texas Department of Mental Health so their officials and physicians could share their experience with the guidelines in other states�professional to professional." Referring to the scientific debate about the relative merits of the newer versus older drugs, Mr Arbesfeld said some guideline groups were more aggressive in their support for the new medications, and some more conservative, but the Texas guideline was somewhere in the middle.
In 2002 the journal Psychiatric Services published an article comparing four different schizophrenia guidelines, concluding that the Texas medication algorithm project was the easiest to use, but far less scientifically rigorous than two of the others (Psychiatric Services 2000;53:888-90).
A spokesperson for the Office of Inspector General could offer the BMJ no comment on allegations of improper influence or on why Mr Jones was dropped from the case. However, Stephanie Suran, from the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, although defending the guidelines as being good for patient care, said the allegations of improper influence were now before the state Ethics Commission.
Federal health authorities are also understood to be investigating, and Janssen last week received a subpoena for documents relating to risperidone.

Related Article
Whistleblower removed from job for talking to the press
Jeanne Lenzer

[bob_jones]

Pesonally I find red vine leaf tea gives me the giggles.
It is suposed to improve circulation.
But you can't get it in the UK as far as I know. I bought it in Cherbourg!

[cafe beelzebub]

These drugs are all PRODUCED BY EVIL BASTARDS I reckon,

:rolleyes:

[codie]

I tapered off of Prozac about 6 weeks ago and felt great(been on it for 4 and a half years!), but for the last week I have felt really bad. Very anxious all the time, so much so that my throat closes up and my chest hurts my heart pounds. It's awful but I don't want to go back to the SSRI's yet. It's been a nightmare. If I go in a supermarket it brings it on bad. :(
And I keep crying over stupid things, I can't cope rationally with stuff at the moment.

Hoping it will pass soon........

[jiffy]

As I have no knowledge of these drugs or depression, are these for Clinical or just people that feel down?

[drhemp]

I absolutely agree that one should not touch prozac with a barge poll, but I've only ever heard good things about SJW. I've used it myself in the past with no problems.

Another excellent alternative is kava kava, already banned on the basis of one very spurious report where an alcoholic who also took kava kava died from liver failure. The real reason it was banned was to protect the interests of the pharmaceutical companies, the same reason Codex has its eyes on SJW.

[liquid]

He said it work fantastic AT FIRST, he said that his brain felt numb in a good way and he was very relaxed and able to converse with people easier. But after two weeks the effects TOTALLY wore off and he kept taking them for another 2 weeks in the hope that they have an effect.
Funny, I've just gone through the exact same thing with Fluoxetine. The first week there was nothing, then there was like a week and a half where I really perked up and it was amazing, and then....it all came crashing down and now I'm back to where I started. They didn't even last 3 weeks, I'm approaching the end of the 4th week soon and it doesn't look like it's doing anything anymore. Being more relaxed, satisfied and having much more confidence is how I felt.

As for my current concentration...well it's the same as before. Very bad, but I hear that happens with depression. Even so I've never been great at concentrating anyway :p but yeah it hasn't turned me into a zombie....yet.

[armoured_amazon]

I LOVED Prozac. The only reason I came off it was because I did not want to be beholden to the government and pharm companies.

[steevo]

I LOVED Prozac. The only reason I came off it was because I did not want to be beholden to the government and pharm companies.

Why did you "love" prozac ?

[armoured_amazon]

Why did you "love" prozac ?

Because all my life I have had insomnia and got really stressed out about stuff, plus my natural hormonal shifts would amplify my emotional waves. Prozac helped me get from going 3-4 days with no sleep whatsoever, into a regular sleep pattern (which several years down the line I'm still in, albeit shorter hours) and most importantly, it made me not care about anything very much which was precisely what I wanted.

[steevo]

Because all my life I have had insomnia and got really stressed out about stuff, plus my natural hormonal shifts would amplify my emotional waves. Prozac helped me get from going 3-4 days with no sleep whatsoever, into a regular sleep pattern (which several years down the line I'm still in, albeit shorter hours) and most importantly, it made me not care about anything very much which was precisely what I wanted.

It's sad that so many people have resorted to these terrible drugs to help dampen the stress that society has put on them. Instead of sorting out society's problems (which of course they never can), the PTB just treat the SYMPTOMS of the effects of society, and the CAUSE of the problems in society remains in tact.

[armoured_amazon]

It's sad that so many people have resorted to these terrible drugs to help dampen the stress that society has put on them. Instead of sorting out society's problems (which of course they never can), the PTB just treat the SYMPTOMS of the effects of society, and the CAUSE of the problems in society remains in tact.

Well, society's an insurmountable mountain, isn't it? The fact remains that people in my life continually let me down and I see nothing wrong with me choosing to not care about that.

[particlezen]

As I have no knowledge of these drugs or depression, are these for Clinical or just people that feel down?

they are supposed to be indicated only for clinical depression but the reality is they are over-prescribed.

interesting that you should mention people that "just feel down"... we are in a state where normal human emotion is becoming pathologised and seen as abnormal.

for instance, people are prescribed anti-depressants to overcome bereavement, relationship issues or other social problems. it's NORMAL to feel down in these situations but unfortunately, rather than adjusting to life-changes and considering non-pharmacological coping strategies, people tend to want a quick-fix. in these situations, using anti-depressants does not help people to come to terms with their feelings, it merely puts a chemical elastoplast over the problem.

[jp13]

Funny, I've just gone through the exact same thing with Fluoxetine. The first week there was nothing, then there was like a week and a half where I really perked up and it was amazing, and then....it all came crashing down and now I'm back to where I started. They didn't even last 3 weeks, I'm approaching the end of the 4th week soon and it doesn't look like it's doing anything anymore. Being more relaxed, satisfied and having much more confidence is how I felt.

As for my current concentration...well it's the same as before. Very bad, but I hear that happens with depression. Even so I've never been great at concentrating anyway :p but yeah it hasn't turned me into a zombie....yet.

I think fluoxitine is the same or very similar to prozac, Prozac is a brand name, like Valium.
I remember a few years ago there was a lot of fear around taking St. Johns Wort (still is) especially if you are on other anti deppressants.
I tried Prozac about 6 years ago, I felt like I was in a glass bell jar, that nothing could touch me, I stopped taling it as it wasn't making me 'feel' any beter.
St Johns Wort I tried the tablets and didn't like them, can't even prove what was in them, I prefer to use herbs in a tea, that way it's not so concentrated as in drugs, and the efects are usually milder (depends how much you put in your teapot I suppose) I have never heard of anyone getting violent on SJW, was the person on other drugs, or a bit mad anyway?
Got to go but would be happy to continue this discussion.

[endlessvista]

Do not take prozac or st johns wart -they are dangerous

Saint John's Wort has been a very popular folk remedy in Ireland for centuries. I am surprised to hear this.

[drhemp]

Saint John's Wort has been a very popular folk remedy in Ireland for centuries. I am surprised to hear this.

I don't believe it is dangerous, certainly nowhere near as dangerous or addictive as Prozac, which turns users into zombies.

[athendraya]

This is a very intresting thread. I am a Holistic therapist and have advised friends for years to take SJW and not had one single piece of negative feedback.
There are of course contra-indications! all herbal and authodox medicine should only be pescribed for the indvidual...what works for one may not work for the other. Someone on this thread advise to ditch the SJW and take Lithem instead! However the user also needs to be aware Litium isnt good for people who suffer with, Cardiac disease, Addison's Disease, Significant renal impairment and patients with low body sodium levels.

here is a link for anyone who wants to take SJW and wants the facts http://www.herbs-hands-healing.co.uk/contraindications/stjohnswort.html
Better safe then sorry.

If you choose to take herbal or orthodox medicine it is imperative to know if it will be more or less effective due to your existing state, including mind, body and soul.

I was also on Prozac in the year 1996 and i thought untouchable. I went on a crazy shoplifting spree for 9 months, until one day i was caught. I was so glad when the security gaurd pulled me back in the shop. God knows how things would of turned out if i hadnt of relised i neededto get of it because it had made me out of control!.

[athendraya]

Just one quick note. I would definetly recommend chamomile and lavender for anyone who wishes to relax.
Both 100% in essential oil diluted in a little oil or full fat milk (remember Cleopatra's formula) and Chamomile tea with honey is soooo calming and completely safe. it is gentle enough for babies.

NEVER USE LAVENDER WHILE PREGNANT OR ON a PREGNANT WOMAN.

[sithnemesis]

Fluoxetine, generic for Prozac, is used to treat behavior problems including obsessive compulsive behavior such as constant licking in dogs and cats, and feather picking in birds. It is also used to treat aggression. Fluoxetine is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, which means that it potentiates the activity of serotonin, a neurotransmitter, in the central nervous system. For cats and dogs. :D


http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucbtdag/bioethics/images/Prozac.jpg http://itech.dickinson.edu/chemistry/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/happy-face.jpg http://ekd.com/images/covers/tf.org-Prozac-Nation-free.jpg http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s162/guruganja/drugs-prozac.jpg http://www.myspaceantics.com//images/myspace-graphics/posters/i-took-my-prozac-today.jpg http://www.herbsgardenshealth.com/images/Stress_&_Insomnia_Pics/bio_health_st_johns_wort.jpg

[athendraya]

Fluoxetine, generic for Prozac, is used to treat behavior problems including obsessive compulsive behavior such as constant licking in dogs and cats, and feather picking in birds. It is also used to treat aggression. Fluoxetine is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, which means that it potentiates the activity of serotonin, a neurotransmitter, in the central nervous system. For cats and dogs. :D


http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucbtdag/bioethics/images/Prozac.jpg http://itech.dickinson.edu/chemistry/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/happy-face.jpg http://ekd.com/images/covers/tf.org-Prozac-Nation-free.jpg http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s162/guruganja/drugs-prozac.jpg http://www.myspaceantics.com//images/myspace-graphics/posters/i-took-my-prozac-today.jpg http://www.herbsgardenshealth.com/images/Stress_&_Insomnia_Pics/bio_health_st_johns_wort.jpg

My boyfriend has a complusive balls scratching disorder! I may just spike his tea :)

[mikethepunk]

This blows my mind because..............I have known this for about 15 YEARS!!!!


This is not new info..... but because the so called "new age" was so corrupted and co-opted by the NWO that now all of these people waking up are too stupid to go to the new age spirituality section of the book store because they think that everything in the new age is disinfo.

Within these books you are being told many deep spiritual truths that the Illuminati and the higher ups know, but because they got you to believe that they corrupted the new age, they know that most of the people waking up now will not read them because they are too stupid to think for themselves.

That is/was their trick to get you to not seek out other higher awareness books and teachings.


I dont care about what David says about it because I know for a fucking fact that when he was starting his path he read many new age books, went to many new age bookstores and visited a bunch of channels. Where do you think he did his first talks? Where do you think his books were first sold? At New Age and Wiccan book stores.

Yes the NWO took the new age and made it their own so you people would not learn the information entailed within these books, people etc.

Let me tell you all of you people that refuse to read any new age books are really missing out on learning things like this and many other useful tools to make your life and the world a better place and this is why we see no change because no one is doing work in the spiritual realms of the planet to facilitate peace and love. Work needs to be done on these levels. But I doubt many 9-11 jump on the truth bandwagon people even have a clue about how this is done.

Any and all psych drugs are bad for you..mostly because you are fucking with your brain and mind's ability to interpret spirit, plus the obvious other side effects like violence, suicide and depression.

It sucks that there are so many people on these drugs. I REFUSE to date anyone who takes ANY of these psych drugs. I went out with one girl who was on anti-psychotics and it was a fucking nightmare. The girl was a slave to her pills which made her sleep all the time, made her violent and caused her to be verbally abusive for no reason.

I will never, ever date anyone on any of these drugs ever again.

[athendraya]

This blows my mind because..............I have known this for about 15 YEARS!!!!


This is not new info..... but because the so called "new age" was so corrupted and co-opted by the NWO that now all of these people waking up are too stupid to go to the new age spirituality section of the book store because they think that everything in the new age is disinfo.

Within these books you are being told many deep spiritual truths that the Illuminati and the higher ups know, but because they got you to believe that they corrupted the new age, they know that most of the people waking up now will not read them because they are too stupid to think for themselves.

That is/was their trick to get you to not seek out other higher awareness books and teachings.


I dont care about what David says about it because I know for a fucking fact that when he was starting his path he read many new age books, went to many new age bookstores and visited a bunch of channels. Where do you think he did his first talks? Where do you think his books were first sold? At New Age and Wiccan book stores.

Yes the NWO took the new age and made it their own so you people would not learn the information entailed within these books, people etc.

Let me tell you all of you people that refuse to read any new age books are really missing out on learning things like this and many other useful tools to make your life and the world a better place and this is why we see no change because no one is doing work in the spiritual realms of the planet to facilitate peace and love. Work needs to be done on these levels. But I doubt many 9-11 jump on the truth bandwagon people even have a clue about how this is done.

Any and all psych drugs are bad for you..mostly because you are fucking with your brain and mind's ability to interpret spirit, plus the obvious other side effects like violence, suicide and depression.

It sucks that there are so many people on these drugs. I REFUSE to date anyone who takes ANY of these psych drugs. I went out with one girl who was on anti-psychotics and it was a fucking nightmare. The girl was a slave to her pills which made her sleep all the time, made her violent and caused her to be verbally abusive for no reason.

I will never, ever date anyone on any of these drugs ever again.


Bloody hell...calm down, didnt you read my advice on Chamomile :)

[orderoutofchaos]

I am certain on this (or as certain as I could possibily be :confused:). He doesnt do drugs or anything and was on no other medication. He said it work fantastic AT FIRST, he said that his brain felt numb in a good way and he was very relaxed and able to converse with people easier. But after two weeks the effects TOTALLY wore off and he kept taking them for another 2 weeks in the hope that they have an effect. He didnt seem all there anymore and would just stare into space and was not able to concentrate anymore. He said he would start reading stuff and then just end up staring at the page like he was a zombie or something. Dont get me wrong, he still leads a totally normal life but he says that since the SJW he is unable to THINK properly, as if a part of his brain has shut down. He appears totally normal now but he still says that the SJW is still effecting his ability to do any complicated thinking. But anyway, it really is up to the individual what they take. I am not a doctor but I will tell people what I know and we all have to make our own choices. Like you said Krakhead, some people swear by SJW.



The first 2 weeks he was taking them, he probably suffered the side affects, but then they wear off. You need to take the medication consistantly otherwise it will not work and maybe stay on them for 2-3 months. At first he probably felt like he had taken some recreational drugs, hence why he felt good, but thats not the aim of the medication.

Not all drugs are bad, if i took notice of some of the stuff on this forum i would never touch a pill. You just need to use some common sense. Not everything is a conspiracy.

I bet some of you who are anti prozac take cannabis, which, is far more harmful than Prozac.

[steevo]

The first 2 weeks he was taking them, he probably suffered the side affects, but then they wear off. You need to take the medication consistantly otherwise it will not work and maybe stay on them for 2-3 months. At first he probably felt like he had taken some recreational drugs, hence why he felt good, but thats not the aim of the medication.

Not all drugs are bad, if i took notice of some of the stuff on this forum i would never touch a pill. You just need to use some common sense. Not everything is a conspiracy.

I bet some of you who are anti prozac take cannabis, which, is far more harmful than Prozac.

Re read my post, and please dont make assumptions like that cos it makes an ass of YOU.

[orderoutofchaos]

Re read my post, and please dont make assumptions like that cos it makes an ass of YOU.

What assumptions would they be?

[steevo]

What assumptions would they be?

Surely you dont want me to point out YOUR assumptions ?

It seems that the latest phrase that they like to use on us (ridicule) is "Not everything is a conspiracy". That is an assumption itself that you think that we think that "everything" is a conspiracy. I didnt mention a conspiracy on this thread about SJW did I ? You are an assumer.

[montag]

I bet some of you who are anti prozac take cannabis, which, is far more harmful than Prozac.
You'd be better off taking sugar pills, they're much safer and have been proven just as efficacious as Prozac and all the other anti-depressants in clinical trials.

This article reports an analysis of the efficacy data submitted to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration for approval of the 6 most widely prescribed antidepressants approved between 1987 and 1999. Approximately 80% of the response to medication was duplicated in placebo control groups, and the mean difference between drug and placebo was approximately 2 points on the 17-item (50-point) and 21-item (62-point) Hamilton Depression Scale. Improvement at the highest doses of medication was not different from improvement at the lowest doses. The proportion of the drug response duplicated by placebo was significantly greater with observed cases (OC) data than with last observation carried forward (LOCF) data. If drug and placebo effects are additive, the pharmacological effects of antidepressants are clinically negligible.

http://www.namiscc.org/Research/2002/DrugEfficacy.htm

[itsallundercontrol]

The first 2 weeks he was taking them, he probably suffered the side affects, but then they wear off. You need to take the medication consistantly otherwise it will not work and maybe stay on them for 2-3 months. At first he probably felt like he had taken some recreational drugs, hence why he felt good, but thats not the aim of the medication.

Not all drugs are bad, if i took notice of some of the stuff on this forum i would never touch a pill. You just need to use some common sense. Not everything is a conspiracy.

I bet some of you who are anti prozac take cannabis, which, is far more harmful than Prozac.

Cannabis more harmful than prozac!!!!
Man thats one of the most ridiculous statements ive ever heard in my life
Next you'll be telling me some people suffer from a chemical imbalance and that anti depressants treat and correct this balance its all pharmacological claptrap clever slow release versions of amphetamine and mdma/mda
evil mind altering chemical crap
They do work for some people its called being on drugs 24 hours a day seven days a week

[orderoutofchaos]

Cannabis more harmful than prozac!!!!
Man thats one of the most ridiculous statements ive ever heard in my life
Next you'll be telling me some people suffer from a chemical imbalance and that anti depressants treat and correct this balance its all pharmacological claptrap clever slow release versions of amphetamine and mdma/mda
evil mind altering chemical crap
They do work for some people its called being on drugs 24 hours a day seven days a week


Cannabis causes mental illness, pyschosis, depression, lazyness, paranoia. I dont recall Prozac having any of these side affects.

[debs67gb]

ive been prescribed valium prozac some of the other little friends of the anti depressant stuff - made me manic or suicidal :( I tried st worts it wasnt for me but know it has helped people - maybe yer have to have a special gene lol

[orderoutofchaos]

Surely you dont want me to point out YOUR assumptions ?

It seems that the latest phrase that they like to use on us (ridicule) is "Not everything is a conspiracy". That is an assumption itself that you think that we think that "everything" is a conspiracy. I didnt mention a conspiracy on this thread about SJW did I ? You are an assumer.

What are you talking about. Did you not post this:

Do not take prozac or st johns wart - they are dangerous

Most of the posts on here are saying that Prozac is dangerous. They have been approved for use and classed as safe - so by saying they are dangerous you are hinting at some sort of conspiracy.:rolleyes:

[debs67gb]

ive been prescribed valium prozac some of the other little friends of the anti depressant stuff - made me manic or suicidal :( I tried st worts it wasnt for me but know it has helped people - maybe yer have to have a special gene lol

actually cant say they MADE me but made me feel worse :)

[twistedconcept]

What are you talking about. Did you not post this:

Do not take prozac or st johns wart - they are dangerous

Most of the posts on here are saying that Prozac is dangerous. They have been approved for use and classed as safe - so by saying they are dangerous you are hinting at some sort of conspiracy.:rolleyes:

Must be good for you then. Fluoride has also been approved. Mercury, one of the most dangerous substances on the periodic table, is apparently good for you. Aspartame is also fantastic for your body (end sarcasm).

[twistedconcept]

Cannabis causes mental illness, pyschosis, depression, lazyness, paranoia. I dont recall Prozac having any of these side affects.

Well, let's see.

- It made me far more depressed.
- I became extremely angry and far more violent.
- I self-harmed more.
- I almost attempted suicide.
- I became more paranoid.

[itsallundercontrol]

Cannabis causes mental illness, pyschosis, depression, lazyness, paranoia. I dont recall Prozac having any of these side affects.

I dont know or understand why you want to defend prozac and ssri's.I dont want to judge anyone for taking it or cannabis.Depression especially serious recurring clinical depression is terrible and wouldn't wish it on anyone.
If you are taking it I would strongly suggest you find an alternative way of managing your condition and do some research on who and where these drugs come from and the effects they have on the brain short and long term.

People who go to the doctors with "mental health problems" are extremely vunerable and telling them that they are powerless and its a chemical imbalance which can be solved by swallowing a pill is sometimes just what they want to hear because in their depressed state they often feel unable to change things themselves this is not only irresponsible but a complete and utter fucking lie made up by money grabbing drug companies and the doctors (many of whom think they are doing the right thing).

There are many conspiracy theories surrounding these drugs as well if you're not interested in them fair enough mate thats up to you

[drhemp]

Cannabis causes mental illness, pyschosis, depression, lazyness, paranoia. I dont recall Prozac having any of these side affects.

You are kidding?

[the nine]

It's sad that so many people have resorted to these terrible drugs to help dampen the stress that society has put on them. Instead of sorting out society's problems (which of course they never can), the PTB just treat the SYMPTOMS of the effects of society, and the CAUSE of the problems in society remains in tact.

there is NO real money to be made in curing people steevo..just remove the symptoms, every day, big business.. the take something else to take away the side effects.. bigger business!!

"there was an old lady who swallowed a fly....."

[tb303]

Er...some ground-breaking, earth shattering news just in:

different drugs effect different people differently at different times of their lives;

natural substances are better than man-made ones especially the shit manufactured by Ely Lilly.

[athendraya]

Thats what i said lilly..Herbal and orthodox medicine works on one individual diffrently to the next.

But like I say the side effects are terrible. But if it STOPS you committing suicide then maybe it's ok for a VERY short period.

My neighbour was on it for 1 month and you could see the change it had on him. the first two weeks he was more happier than I had seen him for AGES but after that....it was like a chemical labotomy and he said that after the first 2 weeks the pills didnt give him the "high" anymore and then the side effects kicked in. He can't think straight anymore.

Hi Steevo, I was wondering if your neighbour knew that you must only take the correct mgs of orthodox or Herbal medicines. A doctoor would genarally perscribe the lowest dose first and move on the higher strengths if a person needed it. If a person doesnt understand Herbs then he could of used a high strength. Also he may of had any one of these following contra-indications.
St Johns Wort is a mighty herbal power house.

Contraindications

1) Do not use this herb during pregnancy due to its emmenagogue and arbortifacient effects.

2) Do not combine use of this herb with therapeutic ultraviolet light or solarium therapy, as the hypericin content increases photosensitivity to UVA.

3) Do not use this herb for severe depression or combine it with any anti-depressant medication.

4) Do not use this herb with monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAO inhibitors) as they may be potentiated.

5) Do not combine this herb with alcohol or resperine, as an extract from this herb is known to enhance the sleeping time from narcotic effects of alcohol and antagonise the effects of resperpine.

6) Do not use this herb where there is chronic liver or kidney disease, as these organs appear unable to detoxify a build-up of hypericin.

7) Do not use this herb during pregnancy or while breast feeding.

8) Do not combine this herb with amino acid supplements.

9) Do not use this herb where there is oestrogen driven cancer of the reproductive system.

10) Do not combine this herb with ANY prescribed or self administered medication, as this herb has the potential to alter the rate at which many drugs are metabolised.

11) Do not combine this herb with the herb Yohimbe , which also contains Monoamine oxidase.

12) The MPA (Medicine Products Agency - the pharmaceutcal regulator) has issued new warnigs regarding St.John's wort EXTRACT noting that it is known to ccounteract the effect of certain drugs, including hormone-based contraceptives, HIV medicines, blood thickening drugs, anf cyclosporine, a drug used to prevent rejection of organ transplants. Swedish health experts said that the herbal extract containedd a substance called hyperfourin, which made the liver work more efficiently, helping it break down the pharmaceutical chemicals.

13) Do not combine this herb with any medication to control epilepsy.

14) Do not combine this herb with the asthma medication Theophylline.

15) Do not combine this herb with migraine control medication.

16) Do not combine this herb with Warfarin or Heparin.

17) Do not combine this herb with any treatment for HIV

18) The BHMA recommends the following wording on all permanent labels of St.John's wort products.

'Before taking this product please check with your Doctor or Pharmacist if you are taking any prescribed medicines, as St.John?s wort may affect the way they work'.

NOTE: For further information regarding the safety of this herb, go to the EHPA website for Michael MacIntyres articles.

The information contained in these pages is an indication of possible contraindications, but if you are at all concerned about any herb and its suitability for personal use please contact a herbal practitioner in your area or contact us.

sorcue:http://www.herbs-hands-healing.co.uk/contraindications/stjohnswort.html

[athendraya]

Whoops!! sorry tb303 :). I havn't a clue why i called you Lilly.

[athendraya]

This just in off my friend:


Cannabis is a safer drug than aspirin and can be used long-term without serious side effects, says a book by a leading Oxford scientist.

The Science of Marijuana, by Dr Leslie Iversen of Oxford University’s department of pharmacology, found many “myths” surrounding marijuana use, such as extreme addictiveness, or links with mental illness or infertility are not supported by science.

He also found cannabis is an inherently “safe drug” which does not lead to cancer, infertility, brain damage or mental illness. Legalisation of the drug for medical conditions should be considered, he says.

Dr Iversen’s findings will increase pressure on the Government to reopen the debate about the decriminalisation of marijuana.

The author, a fellow of the prestigious Royal Society, found cannabis was far less toxic than other drugs and had “an impressive record” compared with heroin, cocaine or tobacco and alcohol.

His study showed that the active element of cannabis, tetrahydrocannabinol ( THC ), which made users high, had a lot of potential as a safe drug to treat Aids patients and people suffering severe pain.

He also found “stoned” drivers were less dangerous and able to co-ordinate than people who were drunk. “By any standards, THC must be considered a very safe drug both acutely and on long-term exposure,” he writes. “The available animal data are more than adequate to justify its approval as a human medicine, and indeed it has been approved by the FDA [American drug authority] for certain limited therapeutic indications.”

The book says “alarming claims about the harmful effects of long-term exposure to cannabis” should be “put to rest”, and there “is no evidence the drug causes any impairment in fertility or sexual function in men or women”. He says people who stop using cannabis do not suffer long-term side-effects.

“Cannabis does not cause structural damage to the brains of animals as some reports had claimed, nor is there evidence of long-term damage to the human brain or other than slight residual impairments in cognitive function after drug use is stopped.” The author says many adverse effects of cannabis are related to smoking the drug.

But cannabis itself did not appear to cause cancer. Compared with alcohol and cigarettes, which led to more than 100,000 deaths a year, cannabis had a far better record.

“Tetrahydrocannabinol is a very safe drug,” he said. “Despite the widespread illicit use of cannabis here are very few if any instances of people dying from an overdose. Even such apparently innocuous medicines as aspirin and related steroidal anti-inflammatory compounds are not safe.

“Thousands of people die every year because of the tendency of these drugs to cause catastrophic gastric bleeding.”

Read on: onmarijuana.com, saferchoice.org

[jiffy]

This just in off my friend:


Cannabis is a safer drug than aspirin and can be used long-term without serious side effects, says a book by a leading Oxford scientist.

The Science of Marijuana, by Dr Leslie Iversen of Oxford University’s department of pharmacology, found many “myths” surrounding marijuana use, such as extreme addictiveness, or links with mental illness or infertility are not supported by science.

He also found cannabis is an inherently “safe drug” which does not lead to cancer, infertility, brain damage or mental illness. Legalisation of the drug for medical conditions should be considered, he says.

Dr Iversen’s findings will increase pressure on the Government to reopen the debate about the decriminalisation of marijuana.

The author, a fellow of the prestigious Royal Society, found cannabis was far less toxic than other drugs and had “an impressive record” compared with heroin, cocaine or tobacco and alcohol.

His study showed that the active element of cannabis, tetrahydrocannabinol ( THC ), which made users high, had a lot of potential as a safe drug to treat Aids patients and people suffering severe pain.

He also found “stoned” drivers were less dangerous and able to co-ordinate than people who were drunk. “By any standards, THC must be considered a very safe drug both acutely and on long-term exposure,” he writes. “The available animal data are more than adequate to justify its approval as a human medicine, and indeed it has been approved by the FDA [American drug authority] for certain limited therapeutic indications.”

The book says “alarming claims about the harmful effects of long-term exposure to cannabis” should be “put to rest”, and there “is no evidence the drug causes any impairment in fertility or sexual function in men or women”. He says people who stop using cannabis do not suffer long-term side-effects.

“Cannabis does not cause structural damage to the brains of animals as some reports had claimed, nor is there evidence of long-term damage to the human brain or other than slight residual impairments in cognitive function after drug use is stopped.” The author says many adverse effects of cannabis are related to smoking the drug.

But cannabis itself did not appear to cause cancer. Compared with alcohol and cigarettes, which led to more than 100,000 deaths a year, cannabis had a far better record.

“Tetrahydrocannabinol is a very safe drug,” he said. “Despite the widespread illicit use of cannabis here are very few if any instances of people dying from an overdose. Even such apparently innocuous medicines as aspirin and related steroidal anti-inflammatory compounds are not safe.

“Thousands of people die every year because of the tendency of these drugs to cause catastrophic gastric bleeding.”

Read on: onmarijuana.com, saferchoice.org

I could also find you many "Scientists" that say's Global warming in man-made
I could even find you a "Scientist" that says Chocolate is better for your teeth than an apple.

I'm bless with good health, just turned 40 and never had more than two days sickness in my life.
I don't smoke, hardly drink, take exercise a little over weight (wife's fault 2 good a cook) and most of all I LOVE LIFE.

If you are unfortunate enough to have a wrongly wired brain then hey drugs maybe the only solution, if not, then IMHO your just using whatever drug to mask the causes rather than addressing them.

I have no time for drugs in any shape or form, if you feel the need to manipulate your reality, then change your reality, not manipulate it!!!

Life is what you make it;)

[athendraya]

That weed post was from my friend, i actually dont have an opinion on it. I just know i used to do weed, drink and smoke, eat crap and not sleep much and i was a stinking mess.
I get better as i get older and dont do any of the above any more. I am a positive, out going person and my life has meaning.